"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d1f955a20c0044d5aa154517ff678e62\u0022\u003ETuesday, 26 June 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dbca59cfc63a49af94964ce9734c37fc\u0022\u003ETuesday, 26 June 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002292148001f5d8422db725c63e0380c749\u0022\u003EObituaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ee83cb05471840d0a9241f90afa7ff79\u0022\u003EMajor Hone Hikitia Te Rangi Waititi QSO\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022 data-id=\u0022368a7bd8bd394547a2baa4608edb1f12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022368a7bd8bd394547a2baa4608edb1f12\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E I seek to move a non-debatable motion relating to the passing of Major Hone Hikitia Te Rangi Waititi QSO, JP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220790ae3a50a74ee18d75cc87b4be37ea\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022711977ddb46f4990af7b0f54ca32396d\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: Ka whakatau ahau, Kia arongia e te Whare t\u0113nei, ar\u0101,  kua rere atu a Hone Hikitia Te Rangi Waititi QSO, t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 tino pakeke o t\u0101tou, te rangatira m\u014Drehu o Te R\u014Dp\u016B M\u0101ori e 28, \u0101, ngauhia ana \u014D t\u0101tou ng\u0101kau puta noa te motu e t\u0113nei ngaronga, tangi ana hoki. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E[I move, That the House note that Hone Hikitia Te Rangi Waititi QSO, one of our great elders, an esteemed survivor of the 28th M\u0101ori Battalion, has passed on, and that M\u0101oridom throughout the nation feel this loss and grieve as well.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EMajor John Waititi was the last surviving company commander of the 28th M\u0101ori Battalion, in C Company. He fought in World War II, and was well respected and loved by his company. He was a humble man with strong leadership characteristics. He went to Te Aute College from 1935 to 1938. While over in Italy he was wounded three times. From there, the company moved on to fight in North Africa and Italy. Major Waititi said the comradeship of C Company was cemented on the battlefield of about a dozen battlefields, from Olympus Pass to Cassino: \u201CYou develop this closeness because you realise if it wasn\u2019t for your mates, then you might have lost your own life. They were there to cover me. I covered them. These things are set aside as being sacred to us, particularly those relating to the men who died.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EFollowing Major Hone Waititi\u2019s return to New Zealand, he was elected president of the M\u0101ori Battalion. He and his first wife, Mataku Allison, farmed at Te Waiti. Much later in life he married his current wife, Judy Clifford-Waititi, and they have two children, Kahurangi and Haimoana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EMajor John Waititi looked after his men when they returned, creating employment opportunities and doing what he could to support them to return to life back in New Zealand. I had the privilege of attending his 90th birthday. He was a rare breed and a special man. He will be sorely missed by all M\u0101oridom and New Zealanders generally. He has returned to his ancestral marae of Kauaetangohia, in Cape Runaway, where he will lie in state until Thursday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d4cb3b5718cd49829f8ea266be894376\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225ef8356544cb4e7ab92b897efc3f978e\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002266ca4db14c4c4705ade93152e0de6111\u0022\u003EBetter Public Services Targets\u2014Announcement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u0022faea895e4a5542a5ac0d9be8fb3e14c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022faea895e4a5542a5ac0d9be8fb3e14c9\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What steps is the Government taking to get better results and value for money from the public service?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0585bd3ff4f45459d049e21c0068f9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0585bd3ff4f45459d049e21c0068f9b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is determined to continue to provide a high-level, if not better, Public Service with less resource, so we have set ambitious targets across 10 results, which were announced yesterday. The targets focus on difficult issues like reducing crime, reducing long-term welfare dependency, and reducing educational underachievement. Progress will be reported regularly as data becomes available, so New Zealanders can see how we are tracking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022756928e1a31f4218a2e23b956136cc40\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Why is getting better results important? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a4ec3a64945402c8e1f92fdcee526bb\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As we have worked through, in tougher times, Government spending, it has become clear that the previous Government liked to demonstrate that it cared by getting more money. We are going to show that we care\u2014and we are showing that we care\u2014by getting actual results. We have been shifting the Public Service culture in this direction. Keeping one more teenager on the rails is actually the lowest-cost result that we can get, so it is a better Public Service, and we save money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fa408605c5345d28b9f57f0d8c52f68\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does his target for benefit numbers mean that the number of people on working-age benefits in 2017, if he achieves his target, will be 20,000 higher than when he took office 9 years earlier, if New Zealand is unlucky enough to still have him in power?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d5aa049acd14252814635aaf736a91c\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: And it is only the residents of \u201CPlanet Labour\u201D who overlook the fact that there was a global recession along the way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222932a3e6c82140618dc05efbc8be2e3d\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister did not address my question as to whether my figure was correct. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d0d7d9e76e04e23b268ad4d3a0d8437\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if the member wanted his question answered he should not have put the last bit on the question. I am afraid that he gave the Minister a let off the hook that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276c604043375442885310103a5f9fedb\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Government and the Public Service go about achieving better results? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220391f217417e4d2783f5874fdddad8ba\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: In the first place, by focusing on making a difference, rather than just getting more money, which has been the culture up to 2009. Secondly, by working more closely together among departments. But, thirdly, by looking around the wider community to see who can help us with getting higher levels of educational achievement or less offending in prison. Under the National-led Government the Public Service is not so arrogant that it believes everything has to be run by the Public Service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce37ae3f5ec24610a6910b0d80671cf4\u0022\u003ERt Hon John Key\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any reports that the Government\u2019s attempt to quantify 14 different outcomes is \u201Cpretty meaningless stuff\u201D, and does he think it is pretty meaningless stuff to be tackling rheumatic fever, abuse of children, and better education for New Zealanders\u2014is that pretty meaningless stuff? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fc7a554bdf84bb7b9de10b85ee59404\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I saw a report\u2014well, I heard a report that I did not initially believe, actually, because it was a quote from some chap called Chris Hipkins from the Labour Party, who said of these result areas\u2014better educational achievement, less crime, and fewer vulnerable children\u2014\u201CIt\u2019s actually pretty meaningless stuff.\u201D And on \u201CPlanet Labour\u201D, I think it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a21edde48e2a4f5e90d661d215d54dd1\u0022\u003EState-owned Energy Companies, Sales\u2014Potential Legal Challenges and Directors\u2019 Fees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2eabb00853841a4a790704957427e77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2eabb00853841a4a790704957427e77\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a06dfc3404de4d1baa8a8660683bc03a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a06dfc3404de4d1baa8a8660683bc03a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022708fa632a7504a84bf4cf04fa10a3412\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: In light of his statements concerning litigation around the plan to sell off shares in Mighty River Power, is it the Government\u2019s intention to hold back some of the 49 percent of the Mighty River Power shares it is privatising to cover the risk to the Government of a successful challenge from T\u016Bwharetoa; if so, what is that percentage ?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266583333a4064c76abc2529d2edb0964\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9613a78d2d24ea6b5f0cc43a56e2bbb\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Was the risk to the taxpayer of any litigation identified by the time of the Budget; if so, was it included as a specific financial risk, quantified or unquantified?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a421f4030864b48ae9ecbc1a6134e0a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: There is always litigation risk. That has always been known. The likely effect of that is not cost; the likely effect of that would be delay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e60130935b5492dadf94e91b73cc0b7\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the Government\u2019s intention that the taxpayer may need to, therefore, bear the risk of the T\u016Bwharetoa or M\u0101ori Council challenge in court; if so, is this a deliberate protection of companies and individuals contemplating buying shares?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e448cdf613ac458e8870387fe7071753\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: We live in a democracy where people have the right to test their legal rights in court if they choose to do so. Whether someone would be successful in getting such an application heard in the courts, or successfully judged in the courts, is a completely different issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022028d05bca44e4d2788570cc895c258fc\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That was an interesting answer, but not one to the question that was asked. The question that was asked went to who was bearing the risk: whether it was the taxpayer or the purchasers. That was not addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e407577d13044029efd698b8bd8de51\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will allow the Leader of the Opposition to repeat his question for avoidance of any doubt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269966fdca2744234be792895cac7c2f1\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the Government\u2019s intention that the taxpayer bear any risk of T\u016Bwharetoa\u2019s or the M\u0101ori Council\u2019s challenge; if so, is this a deliberate protection of companies and private individuals contemplating buying shares in Mighty River Power?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022679c1e76684b44c083f62bf07d92a426\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: There would not be a financial risk; there could be a time risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bea41d46b3d4882a66ef36156836d9b\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Did his Government encourage the board of Mighty River Power to increase salaries before partial privatisation in order to avoid the embarrassment of salaries skyrocketing after the sale?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b1c5849e094441ebf4d7a0a13d5c5f9\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No. I would note that in the 9 years that Labour was in office, the chief executive\u2019s salary at Mighty River Power trebled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276366d7ca089451fb1b08a6a23f75442\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: In light of his answer, did he think that was a good justification for the increase in salaries this time around with Mighty River Power?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224244f4f098d14424a8e7f0d05150e077\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Contrary to what the member might think, I have not been asked about salaries today; I was asked about directors\u2019 fees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221504c39ff966459b89cc643fd689e2e4\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen the analysis by Ernst and Young that Mighty River Power, Genesis, and Meridian Energy are well run by international standards, and is he, therefore, aware that any effort to extract further profits from these companies will be at the risk of either asset stripping or increasing power prices?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d544dbd4573f419b8bf4a17fb47f6e13\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: If they want to increase power prices all they need to do is go and ask Labour, because Labour got them up by 72 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f264854d525a41c48bc779b7752fd33a\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: In his answer to the earlier question, is the Prime Minister now admitting that the legal action, or potential legal action, from T\u016Bwharetoa and the M\u0101ori Council could delay the asset sale programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dc0148dcb3f40d49f43e467e5c5a66e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: There is always that risk from litigation; that has been known for a very long period of time. I do not think it is necessarily likely. I am just saying that that is always a possibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295adcc4a7ca14690bddc13c56f71e595\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Given his reported statement that he is unconcerned and unsurprised that directors\u2019 fees would double if his asset sale policy goes ahead, why did he not tell New Zealanders earlier that privatisation would mean that power company directors would see their pay double, paid for out of power bills?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221916e9ed2342408cb2b17fa6ecce58ff\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure I have ever been asked that question, either. I was asked about an increase in the fees for the directors of Mighty River Power, not in the context of what percentage they were moving. It is worth remembering that Mighty River Power is a company of revenue in the order of about $1.5 billion, so changes of the magnitude that has been outlined by the member are not likely to have any impact on power prices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229787111aa5464d6f916c8dd4049d3ec2\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister seen the document from Treasury that indicates that director fees are likely to double, and where does he think these companies are going to get the money from, if not from consumers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eade0b43168453bb19e3f8b7e402935\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have not seen that report. Secondly, I think it is very unlikely. History tells us that companies that are run privately, where they are listed on the stock exchange, have continuous disclosure, and are open to all of the analysis by stockbrokers and by analysts in the market, tend to be better run.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022edd17aedefce47d0839efa5464ef99c6\u0022\u003EBetter Public Services Targets\u2014Reducing Long-term Welfare Dependence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8c12a7a4c354f0b80b30af81374593f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8c12a7a4c354f0b80b30af81374593f\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: What commitments has the Government made to reduce long-term welfare dependency?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u002216f1145656e54b95bf219cc837c81105\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216f1145656e54b95bf219cc837c81105\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E As part of this Government\u2019s Better Public Services programme we have committed to reducing the number of long-term beneficiaries. After legislation changes next year, this will combine those currently on the unemployment-related benefit, sickness benefit, DPB with children over 14 years, widows benefit, and women alone benefit. Jobseeker support is projected to have 130,000 people on it, 78,000 of whom will have been on a benefit for more than 12 months. We will reduce that by 30 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254cc83cdba584bdaad6f0e4809e55168\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: How does this target to reduce long-term welfare dependency fit with the Government\u2019s current welfare reforms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba09a6b15dd84166b1d3740ca78b4e6f\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: This is part of our investment approach. Under the welfare reform programme, when you look at how we are going to work with people who are on benefits, the reality is that for those who are particularly on benefits long term and for longer than 12 months, I think they can expect to see more support going into them, more help for the training that they need to get them into work, and the upskilling to help them get those jobs that they desperately want and need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263aea3a33ea446e99417f1c2a4c7a17a\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Does she consider her target to reduce the number of long-term beneficiaries by 30 percent by 2017 ambitious enough, when it means the number will still be 20,000 higher than when she took office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c693a667d01b419892bfc2560d24ddf7\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: That is not actually factually correct, and I will take the member through as to why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3a82b0708574cc29e8567a0b062181b\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Show me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e811c25587624e83a87c2735a2ef1aa3\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I can take the member through, actually, and I am quite happy to table this, if that would help. So, for an example, in March 2007, considering those who were on the unemployment benefit, those who were on the sickness benefit, and those who were on the domestic purposes benefit with children aged 14-plus, we had 61,551; in March 2008\u2014if that helps the member\u2014we had 52,288. Look at the policy. If the member looks at the target, how we are making it up, and the reductions, 20,000 is factually incorrect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e660f53c5b6248c79a291ffdce407834\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would take the Minister up on her offer to table that document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0b808149fa84ca2bd76381088aa39a8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! If the Minister was quoting from an official document\u2014[Interruption] It is not an official document, so the member cannot\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de5843b530224aa2bba67e08303aafeb\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister said during her answer to the question that she was willing to table the document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258007d201dfe4900bb44be34edb2164c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! It is absolutely up to the Minister. Members cannot raise points of order about that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6470b2970b347f0b3e76560af1ab5ca\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Next time the Minister makes that statement, should I take a point of order that her statements are\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200e89f6b3aa34574aa40e73ef8dbd3b2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The House does not need to waste time like this. The member knows that if Ministers are quoting from official documents, the member can most certainly require to have them tabled. We checked, and the Minister has advised that it is not an official departmental document. It is presumably information prepared for her answer, and it is up to her whether she seeks leave to table it. We will see what happens shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b26c45623918449ca5fd5b0e8529777d\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: How many people currently on benefits who have been on for longer than 12 months will be included as part of this target?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022523f489efa4c43b1b2030cd0aa9bb86b\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I think this might help with the previous question, as well. As at April 2012, 135,416 people were receiving benefits that will make up jobseeker support. Of this number, 78,074 had been receiving a benefit for more than 12 months. This is made up of 38,927 who are receiving the sickness benefit, 23,031 who are receiving the unemployment benefit or unemployment training, 12,212 who are receiving the domestic purposes benefit\u2014sole parent\u2014and 3,904 who are receiving the widows benefit. That is how that benefit is made up. Those are the ones who have been on benefits for longer than 12 months. Those are the ones that we will be reducing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc0fb7428d664ae68c24e2ebcc779fd4\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave, as I think we should do at the end of our question, not the middle of it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265764d90b0f4482f9833566381da60e3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The Minister will just seek leave. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a75db63ac9b54af9840d8614d3d9d9ac\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document that was made up by my office, but which does give the numbers of those who have been on long-term benefits from March 1997 to March 2012.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254a54dc0dfb446c7824dec09603ed0ee\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bdea240495dc484ebf80ccd6a1c898b9\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Targets\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00229d788e616f1549f09941b90d01b0829e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d788e616f1549f09941b90d01b0829e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement that \u201CWe are a government that thinks getting results is what\u2019s really important\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00221855a9c20b1c40ce83bccbe3b07add7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221855a9c20b1c40ce83bccbe3b07add7f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, particularly when you look at the progress we have made. We inherited an economy that had been in recession for a year, forecasts of never-ending deficits, ever-rising Government debt, record net international liabilities approaching 85 percent, and a near-record current account deficit of 8 percent of GDP. Despite many difficulties since, all of these have improved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281ea8735c2844893ae2999f199565855\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: As part of the Better Public Services targets he announced yesterday, did he give Treasury targets and milestones for wage growth, overseas debt reduction, or export growth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022063d0cb962af414da0799659f40c3810\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Measures of those are made every day. The accountability for economic management is crystal clear and occurs every time new data becomes available. The member knows that, because he comments on it regularly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220016be39fc96485ca3634ca082b9d731\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was whether he had given Treasury targets, not what the historical figures are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bffa472f4b614ec1ad5d5b85bcd92b02\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s point is absolutely correct. He asked a dead straight question. He asked whether or not Treasury had been given targets for those matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022656b87eaa14f4b8f83828ea2af44a58e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222844520c0e542cc95dc33dac27a28c6\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: As part of the Better Public Services targets he announced yesterday, did he give Treasury targets for making New Zealand superannuation sustainable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a69699084d334fda96c5926b0abc57f8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: If the member actually read the results that were published yesterday, he would see that they do not include those targets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022960521137472414c9839bd7d83d99a38\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The question was not a loaded question. It was a reasonable question, and therefore the questioner should not be abused. The questioner asked whether Treasury had been given targets for sustainability of superannuation. I call the Hon Bill English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288bf7c210714400588ae902a81d59f36\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re now on to yes or no answers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c4217f5a9714359a2fb0a1ce94cefb6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Hon Bill English is to answer the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a849c6b70e8b4c7d872529b67c06e81f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government published the results for the Public Service yesterday, and the suggestions that the member is making are not on that list. If he read it, he would know that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b4980e2547343b2b164b5de116c4166\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: In the 4 years, approximately, that he has been in Government, what targets has he set pursuant to his promises to close the wage gap with Australia, and have those targets, if any, been met?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8a36786503d4483a755f5983d2c0489\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As the member will know, the Government set a target by means of the 2025 Taskforce on closing the gap with Australia. Along the way, as we have discussed in here a number of times, the net after-tax wage gap with Australia has closed slightly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224b34ffe346574775a4f13fd116e351a6\u0022\u003EYoung Offenders\u2014Vetting of Child, Youth and Family Placements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u00227642fa2383c248bdb21bf37a82b65f1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227642fa2383c248bdb21bf37a82b65f1c\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: Have Police, CYFS, medical and referee checks been carried out for all current placements by CYFS under referral by the Youth Court; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022319527484f6d46ea92b538885b675ab1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022319527484f6d46ea92b538885b675ab1\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E To clarify with reference to this question, which is quite detailed and quite complicated, the Youth Court\u2019s role is not to refer young people into placements. The Youth Court is a specialised criminal court. Aside from the most serious offences, where the Youth Court might place a young person into Child, Youth and Family custody\u2014generally a placement in a residence\u2014the custody of the young person remains with their parents or caregivers. As a result of offending, a family group conference may come up with a plan for the young person. This may include whom they live with. This is not a Child, Youth and Family placement. However, under a recent policy change, criminal checks are now done after a youth justice family group conference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f83f69683826471e80390f2941be5f6c\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister assure the public that the full suite of checks are now mandatory for all referrals that come from family group conferences through the Youth Court, given that her deputy chief executive said on Sunday that staff were expected to do police checks only if there were concerns with the placement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f88685b984d4a6781dfc4ced04dd274\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I am told that because of the policy change that went through earlier this year, mandatory checks are now being done on all family group conference placements for youth justice, and not just police checks but also Child, Youth and Family checks and follow-ups. It is part of our strengthening that process and taking a higher level of responsibility, I think, for the outcomes of those family group conferences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a23497333fb34e1abe596166dbd749c8\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister commit to undertaking full police checks for all current placements via family group conferences where those police checks have not been done?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225379f16e02e5434eabe89e1fbcae0ec4\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I would have to seek advice on that as to what kind of resource that would need and how that would look going backwards. As I say, it has been happening since the policy changed this year, but I would have to take advice on what the capability and the capacity are to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7dbac2e06bf4644a9ad65db3a83af95\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Minister doing to identify young people who have experienced abuse as a result of this gap in the policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd21357617204763ac17e960ed6517a0\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: What we have done is greatly increase our monitoring. I would say that, particularly with the youth justice side, it has not perhaps been as tight as we would like it to be or as consistent, so we have now gone back and we are making sure that that monitoring into homes is a lot tighter. What we have also done is really increase our resource, both financially and in people resource, into historical claims. For example, since 2008 this Government has actually settled 272 claims. Prior to that, only 54 had been done. So I do say to anyone who thinks they might have historical cases of abuse against them to bring them to the State. We want to hear their story. We want to do everything we can to settle that to help them move on in their lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e8cfd0069ed4a309672a41b0d3f0d87\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister confirming that compensation is available to young people to help mitigate the long-term effects of abuse that they may have suffered while in State care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e267bcf085564eb785dfa935b0e39a1c\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and we put more money aside for historical claims of abuse in the previous Budget as well. I cannot remember what that number is, but it was a significant amount of money put in for historical claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e73f91689c48496b829da7c97eeb34cc\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister now ask Child, Youth and Family to fully evaluate the effectiveness of its mandatory checking processes both for the custody cases and for Youth Court family group conference referrals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbbc14ed11cc4ca8b7d7b59dfb3ec219\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Constantly. I must admit that I asked the officials before I came down whether I could give an assured guarantee that everybody is. They have told me that the policy is being changed. It is the expectation, and there are checks that are done through the system to make sure that it is being done at 3-monthly intervals, as it is done anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d38fc6d75820421eb01c97c3fa9494f5\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: What guarantee can the Minister give to New Zealanders to assure them that children in Child, Youth and Family placements, or those processed through Child, Youth and Family, will not suffer abuse and neglect at the hands of those whom Child, Youth and Family place them with?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c638faa0f3814689bdd68d4e31569ac9\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: On the case that has been brought up in the last couple of days I do have to make a clarification that the young person was not placed by Child, Youth and Family. It was very much a family group conference. That young person was not under the care of Child, Youth and Family. However\u2014rightly so, I think\u2014Child, Youth and Family has stood up and said that the abuse of this young person by their uncle was absolutely horrific and that systems could be changed, and it has done that. But actually there were nine people in that family group conference. She herself said on TV that there were family members who knew the man was a convicted rapist and did not speak up, and, as such, kept those kinds of checks and balances from being done. So I would say that, yes, Child, Youth and Family most certainly has a role to play, but so do extended wh\u0101nau and the community themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002217e8000c770c4b57af8a3e2433b49484\u0022\u003EBetter Public Services Targets\u2014Advanced Trade Qualifications, Diplomas, and Degrees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u002205b489141f154b87a281350066940f2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205b489141f154b87a281350066940f2a\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills and Employment: How is the Government working to encourage economic growth with a more highly skilled workforce?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8c138267e1a42c1a549add6472126c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8c138267e1a42c1a549add6472126c0\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Demand for highly skilled or degree-qualified people is expected to continue to grow, and, on current trends, to exceed supply by 2018. We therefore are working to ensure we have the right people with the right skills to fill these gaps. That is why the Government has set a target of having 55 percent of 25 to 34-year-olds with a level 4 or above qualification by 2017. That would mean a further 11,250 people with a level 4 or higher qualification over and above the growth we will achieve with current policy settings. People earning a level 4 or above qualification obtain a significant income premium and a greater likelihood of sustained employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bf7b01c28d4487daf0ec6f88e83e436\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Government achieve this level 4 and above qualification target?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a6241c79ea54eecac47692f7c45e5ff\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: To increase the growth in the number of people with advanced trade qualifications, diplomas, and degrees, we need to further increase enrolments within the tertiary sector, continue to improve tuition quality and completion rates, put a greater focus on achievement at foundation levels, and continue to increase institutional performance. We have already taken a number of steps to improve performance, but this target will be a big challenge for providers and Government agencies alike to achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d147a875c9914adba2db237df05aaa84\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm the State Services Commission statement that \u201CThe proportion of the 25 to 34-year-old population with qualifications at level 4 or higher was growing steadily up until around 2009.\u201D, and can he think of an event that occurred in November 2008 that might have caused that growth to flatten off?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238dedd6bfb474960b5c3a7147d29529b\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has achieved many things, but reporting on the tail of what had been happening at tertiary institutions minutes after we achieved office is not actually one of those things. There certainly was a decline. Actually, my figures say that it flattened out in 2007. If we look at Bachelor\u2019s degree achievement in New Zealand, it is quite revealing. In 2006 we had a peak of around 29,000. It dropped back to 26,000, then was 28,000. In 2011, the provisional numbers say nearly 31,000 people achieved degrees in New Zealand, and it is predicted to be above 31,000 and then above 32,000 for all of the next 5 or 6 years. That is real progress, but we do need to achieve more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022812c88cc03794df2bebe512b12f84093\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the Minister\u2019s comments, I seek leave to table the \u201CBetter Public Services: Boosting skills and employment\u201D document, which says that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9a43f6e2b544e018426db3f4083bc4e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The source of the document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022468ef491222345d786104ed799b4f216\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: The State Services Commission. It says that qualifications at level 4 or higher were growing steadily up until around 2009 and since then have flattened off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2daf19d57f24394b5a4af82e7058caa\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226df8178ba606432294bf159fcebd034c\u0022\u003ESuperannuation\u2014Effect of Immigration\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u002229497ba1b3e14de4972317e778e7ee89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229497ba1b3e14de4972317e778e7ee89\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a13da5deacc84c72aa26646a3e1b03a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a13da5deacc84c72aa26646a3e1b03a3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f412d52fcb24b1193ecafdad84c4a03\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement at the Monday, 18 June press conference on the impact of immigration on entitlement to New Zealand superannuation where he said: \u201CYes there are some people who come to New Zealand and either are in the workforce for a short period of time or not [in the workforce] at all, but for the most part they\u2019re a very small group.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd25c430a8b14b91bc3528de4ccbaea1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes; and I advise that those who get New Zealand superannuation are 592,470 and those who have qualified at over 55 years of age, and therefore got New Zealand superannuation but would not have worked for very long, are 14,135.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ac0a31d90874e12a1f89aa96c34d1db\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Did he mislead the public by selectively using the number of 14,135 immigrants, aged 56 and over, who are already receiving New Zealand superannuation, rather than reveal the full, real extent of entitlement to New Zealand superannuation, when Immigration Service statistics show that 15,499 people, just in the 60 and over bracket\u2014not 55 and over; the 60 and over bracket\u2014have been granted residence from non - reciprocal pension agreement countries and will be entitled to New Zealand superannuation after only 10 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230417c6ba4c341e09f7c27accce157ab\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, and anybody who is here for 10 years or longer is entitled to New Zealand superannuation. The advice I have had is that the number for those aged over 55 is 14,135, of which the estimated Chinese number is 3,444\u2014not 22,000 as per the Dominion Road Chinese restaurant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a721fbfd9f1d4fc9854ee7650c66c720\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: So is he saying that this Department of Labour source document showing that the number for non-reciprocal arrangement countries for age 60 and over\u2014just that small category; not 55-plus but 60 and over\u2014is 15,499 precisely; and does he not acknowledge that the changes introduced to immigration policy in May of this year, in the parental category, are a belated response to the huge influx of migrants who will, after only 10 years residency, be entitled to full New Zealand superannuation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d21dcfe34b04e6199bac14a33701d19\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: What is true of what the member says is that the Government has tightened up the provision in the way that it allows people in. The Ministry of Social Development numbers we have are 14,135, and, of that, 3,444 are likely to be people who have come and not been in the workforce either at all or very little who are Chinese and getting New Zealand superannuation, not 22,000 as the member has made out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b40e274fa2c44ba6a16f09fb8833a2eb\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister not seem to understand that the figure of 15,499 is the entitlement figure, which was the subject of the debate he spoke to the press conference about; and does he not understand that this superannuation policy is highly accessible and generous to those admitted through parental reunion from non - reciprocal pension agreement countries, who may make no contribution at all before qualifying after 10 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e3a575e3ad54dcea5bece33110d80d6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Unless I am missing something, 15,000, or whatever number he has got from the Department of Labour, or 14,135, which is the number I have got from the Ministry of Social Development\u2014both those numbers are a hell of a lot less than 22,000 Chinese people, on which the best advice I have had is 3,444.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b2b17239af743c4984bc5ba0314da4b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Who said that the figure was 22,000 Chinese people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a80772bd0df4d2ca1f2416435932485\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: You did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022134aa18ce8ce498f939237e79c491b97\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no, no\u2014no, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a626cb18ffce4f89a599a2d94d1fcbcd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat for the moment. [Interruption]\u2014Order! I am on my feet. The member is entitled to ask his question without an answer in unison like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a6b75e3af424c0d95a196c7349746f9\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The point that I thought you were going to get on your feet for was the suggestion that you had in fact made that figure up. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a071dadd457a44c09a9a276bb3a9af9a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I was more keen to enable the right honourable gentleman to ask his question than be worried about myself, but members should be aware of that. They should not interject in that way either, because if they say \u201Cyou\u201D, it does mean the Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c108fd5bdef41abb69c91530272d52f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Where in the speech, or the press conference following that speech, by the leader of New Zealand First is there any reference to the 22,000 being Chinese only; second, does he not understand that in the 50-plus category, which is the third measurement, the figure was beyond 26,000? So, in short, he is just blatantly misleading the public with selective micro figures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ebfa419972141259646b1b21bdd2561\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am prepared to accept that when the member was talking in hushed tones about some Chinese dude he had once met who hung out somewhere and who could not back up his numbers but liked chicken chow mein from a Dominion Road Chinese restaurant, then I may have got it slightly confused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226aa1beedd68c44d7ab57ea4f8a3d7678\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister can ramble on as much he likes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259adaf3c61a240f2bd36ed40b3a57db9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! No wonder I am on my feet. I invite the right honourable member to go back and read the Hansard of his question. Given the question asked, the Prime Minister had a lot of licence in how he answered. I see very little grounds for any point of order over the Prime Minister\u2019s answer, but I am prepared to listen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fc67a3251844d43be758f44126e7ab9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think I need the Hansard; I have got the question right in front of me. None of that enables the Prime Minister, surely, within the Standing Orders\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278edbf805d1b492d837e797833adf935\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member cannot raise points of order in that way. If, in fact, as he claims, he asked exactly the question that he had written in front of him, I would be very surprised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b070c905c60942b185d69c0d39c0ae55\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The fact of the matter is the Prime Minister was asked to verify where he got his statement from\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223012b10a46764be8a0a4013a732c6b1d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member is not going to debate with the Speaker. The only reason why the member\u2019s question was possibly within the bounds of supplementary questions was the Prime Minister had mentioned the member\u2019s speech in his answer. The member could not possibly have predicted the Prime Minister was going to mention the member\u2019s speech in his answer, so he could not possibly have prepared a supplementary question that he wrote out on the basis of that answer. That is why I made the point that I just did, as Speaker. As I say, given the question the member asked, the Prime Minister had wide licence in how he answered it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b0af898dc754d4fbe08fe960d61292c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222012debc647f49b9aaaf7bbb22f354ab\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has already had five supplementary questions, I am afraid. That has used the entitlement for New Zealand First. Fortunately, I did not hear that final interjection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d68b176290e46d0a041ac3a4e7834d2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: In accordance with Speaker\u2019s ruling 148/4(1), I seek to table a document setting out the 15,499 figure for the 60-plus group alone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a6640be23a94b748ecaa04c8b44cce4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The source of the document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cf1521f2cd244cd9e55ca29ab089b86\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: The Department of Labour collation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a293c38d9164814beba35ef3e695a94\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table a Department of Labour collation. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002237e474fcc2bc41719b2fe646d2d7762e\u0022\u003EState-owned Energy Companies, Sales\u2014Chief Executives\u2019 Salaries and Payments to Board Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9e2ee5e288a44b9bbb90e448b778624\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9e2ee5e288a44b9bbb90e448b778624\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement regarding SOE chief executive salaries that \u201CThere\u2019s a couple of bigger pay increases, I think three with the energy companies, which will be probably related to the share float that\u2019s coming\u201D; if so, does he support the $451,873 pay increase for the Chief Executive of Mighty River Power whose pay is increasing from $1,317,469 to $1,769,342?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c76cca474918462f90b95ea06a3d696e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c76cca474918462f90b95ea06a3d696e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E As the member will know from his time as Minister of State Owned Enterprises, Ministers are not involved in setting the pay. There are a number of considerations that the board of Mighty River Power would be taking into account, but we would urge the energy companies to show restraint, because that is the current mood of the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6a229da56214a4a835472c089c87863\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that since Contact Energy was privatised, remuneration for the board increased from $385,000 to $1,008,000; if so, what guarantees can he give New Zealanders that the same thing will not occur on the boards of Mighty River Power, Genesis Power, and Meridian Energy after they are sold off?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227af29f0a2c354b3cac5d44f3bde9a46b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I was not aware of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f561a6dec534afd92109bf8015bbf9c\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: What guarantees can he give New Zealanders that these substantial costs, like big pay increases to board members and chief executives and $120 million spent on merchant bankers to do the deal, will not be clawed back through higher power prices on the back of consumers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd67b58d2ddb4104ab7c7204846210bc\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As has been discussed in this House over recent weeks, the improved competitiveness of the electricity market means that no company can afford to indulge in unnecessary spending and automatically get that back off customers. They used to be able to do that when Labour was running these companies, when chief executives\u2019 salaries trebled and power prices went up 72 percent in 8 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c109b739c391468bac5eb9b316567cfe\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Given that he has stated that the sale of State-owned assets is all about \u201Creducing debt\u201D, why is his Government doing everything it can to reduce the amount it will receive from the sales through the issuing of free loyalty bonus shares and the setting aside of additional shares for the settlement of Treaty claims, not to mention big pay rises for chief executives and boards et al.?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2fe319655f54cacba5b05a69aaa1247\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Government is striking a reasonable balance between getting good value for taxpayers and achieving our objectives of 51 percent Crown ownership and widespread Kiwi ownership of these companies. I notice the member is increasingly agreeing with the policy, because now his party has promised not to buy these companies back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002252ecbd2fd69243b399d36c859da73b7b\u0022\u003ERoad Safety\u2014Changes to Give-way Rules\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u00226bd0f45fa801454b84195a1045c000cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bd0f45fa801454b84195a1045c000cf\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Transport: What reports has he received on the public\u2019s understanding of the new give way rules?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00226e028b60c94d4962a37efecdb724b47c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e028b60c94d4962a37efecdb724b47c\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Associate Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I am informed that Kiwis are giving way like never before. We are a little over 3 months into the change, and I want to give credit to Kiwi drivers for the smooth switch-over to the new give-way rules. In April the New Zealand Transport Agency commissioned a survey of a thousand drivers. It shows high levels of awareness and understanding of the rule changes: 90 percent of respondents chose the correct option when asked which vehicles give way at an uncontrolled T-intersection, compared with just 61 percent surveyed in February. For the right-hand turn rule, 89 percent answered correctly, compared with 74 percent in the earlier survey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224495152374614f8fae6144b6db63b868\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Are there any other indicators that show that drivers are adjusting well to the changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f7454d5bcbe4b57aa13658e01bd3722\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: More good news for the House. To date there have been no serious incidents attributable to the changes. AA Insurance has reported only a handful of claims for minor crashes. There were a few very vocal critics who predicted widespread chaos and argued Kiwis would not be able to cope with the changes. These naysayers have been proved wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b4aad0abaab343adb0c68aef61a41483\u0022\u003EDistrict Health Boards\u20142012 Community Pharmacy Services Agreement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u002218743850cc5a4e8bbdb28d4784d52a05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218743850cc5a4e8bbdb28d4784d52a05\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by all the answers given on his behalf to Oral Question No. 6 on Thursday, 21 June?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u00228b09b4b382484baebf5c823c39193a0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b09b4b382484baebf5c823c39193a0f\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Substantially yes, though I understand that where Mrs Goodhew referred to a document being sent out on 1 June, it was, in fact, put on the internet and made available to everybody, with notification. The district health boards have been in negotiation with pharmacy businesses for some time, and we are now moving to a new contract, which recognises the considerable clinical expertise that pharmacists have, instead of just paying them for filling bottles and containers. There are around 950 pharmacy businesses. Two-thirds are represented by the Pharmacy Guild. I have spoken to the guild today, and although there are some individual businesses with issues, signed contracts are pouring in, and the guild is happy the district health boards are doing everything possible to meet its pharmacy members\u2019 needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220079f4ce0e7849b9ba83936c11024f96\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: In the light of that answer, do I take it that the reason that some pharmacists were seeing a copy of their 163-page contract for the first time as late as midday last Friday was that they were meant to go to the website to discover it on 1 June?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224803414888df4799a97d8e508ad52b3e\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: People were made aware that a copy of the contract was available online on 1 June. Individual PDFs were sent out from 6 and 7 June, with some occurring slightly later than this. I am aware of one situation down south where, because their contract was not varying from that appearing on the website, they did not receive a physical copy until a bit later on. But the only variation from what was on the website was that their name was filled in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022105b45d9d3ed4e99b62699bb4d61e3ce\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Will the fees that apply from 1 February 2013 be included in the contract that pharmacists are being asked to sign by 5 p.m. today or, if one listens to the Pharmacy Guild, by 13 July, or by 23 July; if not, can he guarantee that pharmacists will not be worse off after 1 February 2013?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275c918611954400594eecf9ab40ef28b\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: As the pharmacy businesses will know, the latest advice I have received is that over 60 percent of pharmacy businesses in New Zealand have already returned signed contracts or indicated that they do intend to sign the contracts. The fees payable from 1 February are the subject of some continuing negotiations between various working parties. But what the district health boards have indicated is that the quantum of annual funding will remain the same. There is no reduction on what we are spending this year that I am aware of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022964cb72f98164e9bb5afdb283553b894\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Can he guarantee that the new contract will meet the requirements of high-needs communities and will not threaten patients\u2019 safety, as one pharmacist in a high-needs area has put it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022def56fd6693e4ece8f8e343feff4d8df\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I think if we are moving from a system where we pay pharmacists money for every bottle and container of medicine they pour some pills or some liquid into, to one that rewards them for the care and the use of their clinical skills, that is a win-win not only for pharmacy but also for high-needs patients.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5dc676a85f14e3ab192732079a1f090\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Will he address the current chaos in this sector and simply instruct the district health boards to roll over the existing contract until such time as all the concerns around the professional and financial matters that pharmacists are raising are allayed; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dc8ccba05894adf98085e4da7abb569\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: No. Already, well over 60 percent of the pharmacy businesses in New Zealand either have returned their contracts or have indicated that they are going to sign them. We have been negotiating for quite some time, and I have got to say that, actually, there is a lot of goodwill in pharmacy businesses to make this change. When you have been to university for so long and you have got such great clinical skills, I actually think you should be paid for your clinical skills, not for pouring pills into a bottle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223f722f1f531c4e3e9ba887df0dbd80ca\u0022\u003EFreshwater Management\u2014Farming Practices and Protection of Water Quality\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022e19daeb8749f4d4fbad77be8acd9b9fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e19daeb8749f4d4fbad77be8acd9b9fc\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: Does she agree with Bay of Plenty Regional Council Pollution Prevention Manager, Nick Zaman, that \u201Ccourts, council and the wider community will not tolerate the pollution of our environment\u201D and if so, what action will she take to encourage farmers and farm owners to comply with their legal responsibilities to protect waterways?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u00227f2bad13fa4a44a0b4106b15c081b7df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f2bad13fa4a44a0b4106b15c081b7df\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I certainly agree that all New Zealand is rightly concerned to ensure that water quality is maintained and, where possible, enhanced. That is why this Government is taking clear action against water degradation from all sources, not just farming, including implementing the Fresh Start for Fresh Water programme; establishing the Land and Water Forum; assisting in the refreshing and expanding of the Dairying and Clean Streams Accord, including nutrient budgeting and stream fencing; preparing and implementing the National Policy Statement on Freshwater Management; doubling penalties for Resource Management Act offences; and working with local authorities to ensure they are properly monitoring and enforcing standards. I note that Mr Zaman went on to say that, actually, most farms are doing a really good job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221867e980a0eb4daa9fcc41e1d57c2906\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: What mechanisms does Government have to ensure that proper checks and monitoring are in place to prevent the unlawful discharge of effluent, and what responsibility can Government expect the industry to take for the way in which it responds to the effluent spill in Maket\u016B by Armer Farms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260fe0c39e9fe4552a90ef09565ed87d5\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Central government\u2019s role in this is to set the framework, including the legislation under which it operates and the penalties, which, as I noted, we have doubled. It is the responsibility of local government to be concerned with the monitoring and enforcing of resource consent conditions. For our part, what we do is we work very closely with local councils to ensure that they are adequately carrying out those monitoring and enforcement obligations, and I would say that we expect industry, regardless of its sector, to be properly managing the environmental impacts of its activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b31e9d960e0b45e09327b708d5664701\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: What influence will the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill have in assisting farmers and farm owners to comply with the Dairying and Clean Streams Accord?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c5a5cd893924ebd9d3e11ec3bd0a9db\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I just suggest that the member is probably better to set down any questions he has around that bill to the Minister in charge of it, the Minister for Primary Industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002285e50cfce8284cc5995da416880e11ad\u0022\u003ETelevision, Public Service Channels\u2014Closure of TVNZ 7\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00221d0f3f0ca59548139d3686ed04c2f000\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d0f3f0ca59548139d3686ed04c2f000\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Broadcasting: In the light of the latest monthly audience figures by Nielson, which show almost 1.6 million New Zealanders watched TVNZ7 in May, an increase of nearly 120,000 viewers in just one month, is he now prepared to recommend that the Government review its decision not to provide further funding so that TVNZ7, the only nationwide public broadcast television station, can continue operation beyond 30 June?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u00225475b709841d4b9f8f1ff4c9e660b569\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225475b709841d4b9f8f1ff4c9e660b569\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS (Minister of Broadcasting):\u003C/span\u003E No. Last year the Government reaffirmed the decision of the previous Labour Government that TVNZ 7 funding was to end on 30 June 2012. I am disappointed, but not surprised, that the member and the Labour Party do not recognise that M\u0101ori Television\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f0f4c1da985434fac2fac587c91ddb6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Minister is not responsible for what the Labour Party might think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229901ab9504944fe884e1093ade3f96b3\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he persist in stating that the Government has not made a conscious decision to close down TVNZ 7 when his predecessor, Jonathan Coleman, received a paper dated 23 February 2011 that states: \u201CIt is proposed that Cabinet agree that no further funding be made available for the continuation of TVNZ 7 when the current appropriation ends in 2012.\u201D, clearly indicating that it was an option that was available to the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a211dbead2e44663b866f65cc7d4817d\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in the primary question, the Government reaffirmed the decision of the end date of funding for TVNZ 7 last year\u2014TVNZ 7, which sits beside M\u0101ori Television as a nationwide public broadcast television station.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3a71838735245f4acfcb6855658d2bb\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Was any Television New Zealand (TVNZ) business plan on the table for continuing the operation of TVNZ 7 at the time the Government confirmed that no special purpose funding would be available to sustain the channel\u2014the decision that was made on 6 April 2011? Did that plan go to Cabinet, and why was it turned down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa6938f2b3dc4a6189c0cc8d330eaa02\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: I note that I was not in Cabinet at that time. I understand there were proposals from various entities, including TVNZ, and such things as levies to fund TVNZ 7.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abfa02a3089e41c583522d3e6379ef13\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is the Minister of Broadcasting, who is responsible for broadcasting. He would know what reports went to Cabinet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022574c7a3d341e4306b214d74ec8976f46\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Ministers remain responsible; it is why reports are allowed that enable Ministers to comment on what has happened historically. So just because a Minister may not have been present at the time does not relieve a Minister of being answerable for what took place. That supplementary question asked whether a business plan was on the table and whether it went to Cabinet. The Minister may not have the information to answer the question, but he should at least attempt to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d1c196553a14b6ab472d5686251b1ec\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, I was not in Cabinet at that time, but I do understand that various proposals were put by various entities, including TVNZ, for various options for TVNZ 7. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fe3d7cc83ca4fce8205641f147df06c\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was very specific. It asked: \u201CWas there a proposal on the table, did it go to Cabinet, and was it turned down?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ac547f170bc49fa87b46e21fe917acc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! A point of order has been raised. The answer did say that, yes, there were proposals on the table and that the Minister\u2019s understanding was that they did go to Cabinet\u2014a range of proposals did. So it would appear that he has answered that question. The member can dig further into that answer, obviously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a886b0d6f05a4a1db25750b4e7991b22\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Following the axing of public broadcasting television channel TVNZ 7 on 30 June, will he commit to reserving spectrum for a public service or non-profit public interest television channel for the future; if not, why not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e52760a0dbcb4d6593dc572264236299\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: M\u0101ori Television is doing very well across that spectrum. Those are decisions for TVNZ itself, which has made announcements about that. Again, the closing of TVNZ 7 was as scheduled by the previous administration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4fa35d2d3ed49e59d2d6bc7eab3db4f\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I know that we are not meant to argue the accuracy of answers, but the Minister may not have heard the question. The question was about the allocation of spectrum. That is not TVNZ\u2019s responsibility\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c44ad876304442ce9958d9c2c4b3672b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member must resume his seat. The member knows that the Minister\u2019s answer\u2014I mean, the Minister has answered the question. The Speaker cannot in any way be accountable for the accuracy or otherwise of the answer. The Minister must stand by his answer, and it cannot be litigated by way of point of order. It certainly can be tested by way of a further supplementary question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dc70cac80b5420cb54c4e75f494bdd6\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was nothing to do with M\u0101ori Television. It was to do with public television spectrum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce1ab3fb358b494297369a2e7010ebc5\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I think you invited us to continue by way of supplementary question. There is a slight problem, and that is that we have not got any. Every now and again\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e57001eff634eb39ee726e6ec3733ee\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: See you tomorrow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b817c46a2c048ef9fc9d0bf05ad4144\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we cannot ask a supplementary question tomorrow without asking another primary question. Silly old Steven Joyce interjected\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227db39cebc06742eaa535772bf9e37496\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat immediately. He was doing reasonably well until that point. [Interruption] Order! The House will come back to order. I apologise. It is my fault. I thought that the Labour Party had one more question, and it appears that I may not be right on that. Under the circumstances, rather than have an argument\u2014[Interruption] Order! Rather than have an argument over whether or not the Minister has answered the question adequately, I would rather have the member ask a further question. I believe that that way we can deal with this problem, rather than have an ongoing argument through points of order as to whether the Minister answered the question. I invite the member to ask a further supplementary question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022861277be9f814515a56bd12b688d352f\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. So that we do not have an argument over the question, it is worth pointing out that the Minister responsible for spectrum is the Minister for Communications and Information Technology, not the Minister of Broadcasting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220739d74b86674e36b5f1b24113acc91e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate the member\u2019s point of order, but the Speaker has total control over the allocation of questions. He has allocated a further supplementary question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a63c07f933044a789504fa15565a6715\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: In the light of the Government\u2019s Regional and community broadcasting framework of 22 July 2011, which states its objective as that \u201Cspectrum is allocated and reserved for future developments in population demographics, audience demand, and technology, particularly digital developments;\u201D, and following the axing of TVNZ 7 on 30 June, will he commit to reserving spectrum for a public service or non-profit public interest television channel for the future; if not, why not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022013c5b69594e49ad8d997cf9b3683fac\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa1489af9da14757b43cc73376087e34\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the following documents: the latest 4-week cumulative audience figures by Nielsen Media Research.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242c3ab29b6144a78bfc1b9daf6762f7d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: These are available to all members, are they not\u2014these audience figures? They are available in the media readily. I do not think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcac450a47d148b6adff5a5eb2e11c74\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: They have not been released. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4f1aca0f5fe4e968197a8c5dc915dfa\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We are not going to seek leave to table stuff that is available in the media already. [Interruption] If there is any doubt, leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? There is objection. I believe the Speaker was not wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279e552ed2dba458b9df6b9eab9fad8cb\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Ministry for Culture and Heritage report dated 23 February 2011 providing broadcasting Minister Coleman with a revised Cabinet paper on options for the future of TVNZ 7. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c07f6de0a21b419c8cabd362c83e7dce\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a2d43ad8b14473c8a32ae8d77d6d906\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Government\u2019s Regional and community broadcasting framework, dated 22 July 2011, which states as an objective that \u201Cspectrum is allocated and reserved for future developments\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c607796660c5470a987d79159c23650f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Leave is sought to table that document. We have heard all of that previously. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a194ed1ea76b4696adf70a07fc7603fb\u0022\u003EState-Owned Enterprises Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a194ed1ea76b4696adf70a07fc7603fb\u0022\u003EPublic Finance (Mixed Ownership Model) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226563d6767b1c40d7ae3979ece864d13f\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5ef922e642246cea895d172996f7996\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5ef922e642246cea895d172996f7996\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister for State Owned Enterprises):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the State-Owned Enterprises Amendment Bill and the Public Finance (Mixed Ownership Model) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. These bills are part of the Government\u2019s wider plan to control debt and to keep investing in our economy. [Interruption] They are part of a wider plan to control debt and keep investing in the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThere are some people who think that the global financial crisis is over. They do not understand the relentlessly worsening international financial situation. There are more and more countries confronting the problems of debt. Greece, Spain, Portugal, the United Kingdom, Italy\u2014countries that are fast running out of choices, because they refused to control debt and get their public finances in order. Their situations are precarious. The ability of these countries to continue investing in growing and protecting their economies is significantly at risk. But New Zealand wants to take action to ensure that we can continue to invest in our country\u2019s growth and prosperity, and at the same time control our debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThis Government has carefully planned its spending and borrowing through the financial crisis and the Christchurch earthquake. Through good financial management over the next few years our country will return to surplus and we will keep our debt under control. When we inherited this economy after the 9 years of absent management by the party opposite, our country owed $8 billion. Through protecting our country from the sharp edges of the recession, we now owe $52 billion, and in 3 years\u2019 time we expect to owe $72 billion. New Zealand must control its debt. The mixed-ownership model is about freeing up some of our capital tied up in a minority of these companies, and using that money to control debt by allowing us to continue to invest in schools, roads, and hospitals\u2014important infrastructure in New Zealand. That is what this legislation allows us to do\u2014to control our debt and continue to invest in important things like our schools, our hospitals, and our roads. This legislation enables the sale of a minority of these companies to the value of between $5 billion and $7 billion, which will give us cash up front in an uncertain world, when we would have otherwise had to borrow from foreign lenders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EOver the time of this debate\u2014this debate that has not happened through urgency; this debate that has involved the public\u2014this Government has made it absolutely clear that we are not going to be diverted by the scaremongering and nonsense of the three-headed party opposite. Fact: this Government will maintain majority New Zealand control of these companies through its legislated 51 percent shareholding, with a 10 percent cap on any other shareholder. Contrast that with the experience when that party was in power in the 1980s and sold $10 billion of assets to the highest bidder, 100 percent, without getting a mandate from an election\u2014without getting a mandate from an election. This Government expects that 85 percent to 90 percent of these companies at float will be owned by New Zealanders. The Government will make sure that it gives effect to this policy through its ability to control the allocation, and will ensure that everyday New Zealanders who want an opportunity to participate in these businesses will have that opportunity. It will ensure that superannuation funds, KiwiSaver, and other New Zealand institutions where New Zealanders save for their retirements also have an opportunity to get shares. This policy helps control debt. Our critics have exaggerated the numbers. They have been very selective, but it is very clear in the Budget documents\u2014simple and clear\u2014that the estimated impact of the mixed-ownership programme is a $6 billion reduction in our net debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E In their desperate attempts to discredit that for which this Government has a mandate, we have had this latest claim that this policy will drive up electricity prices. Remember question time last Thursday, when the Opposition said that all the information shows that the State-owned electricity companies are cheaper than private companies? Well, what we know is that a more comprehensive analysis shows that there is no difference, and that what really matters is the level of competition, not the ownership. Our Government, in our first term, set about fixing the competition issues and making sure that the regulations were right, such that in a 6 or 7-month period 425,000 New Zealanders have changed power companies. In 14 of the 21 power regions, the private companies are the cheapest. That is what happens with competition. New Zealanders get more choice and they are getting more competition, and that is what we want to see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe other nonsense we have heard from the party opposite is that this is a rushed process. Are we doing this through urgency? When that party opposite was in Government and sold assets it put everything through under urgency. Did we invite the public to make submissions? Did the Prime Minister announce this policy in January 2011? Did we have an election on this issue? Was it the centrepiece of Labour\u2019s election campaign, and did Labour get the lowest vote it has ever got? This was what the entire election campaign was about. From Labour\u2019s perspective, every dollar that it cobbled together went on campaigning on this issue\u2014and the Greens\u2019 dollars\u2014and Labour got the lowest vote it has ever had, and National got the highest vote that any single party has ever got under an MMP election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E We do have a mandate. We do have the support of New Zealanders for our wider economic package to control debt and get this economy on the tracks that we need to have future prosperity. And that is what this is about. Unless we control our debt and free up money that we can continue investing in our schools, and our hospitals, and our roads, then New Zealand is at risk. We are at risk of being seen by the international lenders as on a par with other countries that are losing control of their destiny. So this Government has a mandate from the people of New Zealand\u2014no doubt about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThis Government has a focus on protecting majority New Zealand control through a 51 percent legislative guarantee in the law, passed in this legislation, with a 10 percent cap on any one shareholder. That money, the future stream of dividends that we are making available to the minority shareholders, will be captured up front in the price that we get for the shares. And that money will be put into the Future Investment Fund, and that money will be available for investing in schools, roads, and hospitals. So this is what works for New Zealand. We control debt, and at the same time we protect, grow, and invest in our economy, and that is what New Zealanders would want us to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EOver the next few weeks we are going to continue to hear a whole lot of nonsense from our opponents. These are our opponents who, when they sold public assets, did it without a legislative mandate, did it to the highest bidder, and never gave everyday New Zealanders a look-in\u2014never gave everyday New Zealanders a look-in. That is not what this Government will do. This is about giving everyday New Zealanders a chance to own shares in these businesses, whether directly, or through their superannuation funds, or their KiwiSaver, or their other Crown financial institutions. This Government wants to be absolutely clear with New Zealanders. This is part of a wider plan to make sure that we protect and grow our economy in these difficult times. When you do not have a Government with that sort of commitment, you end up seeing what New Zealanders are seeing on their television news, 6 o\u2019clock bulletin after 6 o\u2019clock bulletin. Countries that do not control their debt and do not invest in the future begin to lose control of their destiny. This Government will not put our country in that position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u00223db310c8ac7643f386ca90a9f2b1a5df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223db310c8ac7643f386ca90a9f2b1a5df\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I knew that if we waited around here long enough we would hear \u201CIf we don\u2019t do this, we\u2019ll end up like Greece or Spain or Italy.\u201D It is the classic, is it not? You have got to look offshore and say: \u201CIf we don\u2019t sell off our assets, we\u2019re going to be like Greece.\u201D What a lot of nonsense. What an absolute travesty of the truth. It is absolute nonsense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EWe may be finishing this legislation, the State-Owned Enterprises Amendment Bill and the Public Finance (Mixed Ownership Model) Amendment Bill, in this House today, but I can tell you what, the fight is not finished. It will be out of here and on to the streets. That is where it is going. That is where we will continue to fight this battle to keep our assets, because we are taking the petition to have a referendum on these asset sales to the people of New Zealand. I can tell you that when you go out there and ask people to sign the petition, they clamour to sign it. They stand in line to sign the petition, and they are not just, as Mr Key would say, people who vote Green or Labour or whoever. These are National Party supporters who are standing in line, and they say that. They come up to you and they say: \u201CLook, I voted National but I\u2019m willing to sign this petition because I totally disagree with this Government selling off our assets.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003ESo today, in the third reading, this legislation is likely to go through. But it is likely to go through with a wafer-thin majority, brought about by Peter Dunne of United Future, who has not really taken a very active part, I have to say, in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d3193999afa4952bbac9f25104a4902\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: He hasn\u2019t spoken any time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222376432ea947479ba0a31cbec5ada4bc\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: I think he has maybe spoken once, but he has certainly not taken an active part in this debate, and why would he? Because we know that in his electorate, where we have been collecting the most signatures of any of the electorates around the country, they are dead against him selling off, and putting his name alongside the National Government in selling off, our assets. So it is a wafer-thin majority that is coming before this House, and our assets are being sold off in a piece of legislation that can be seen and understood only as being particularly obnoxious. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003ELet us ask a few questions about this legislation. Would we be better off? Actually, no. It is a little bit like selling a profitable business to put an extension on to your house. What you end up losing is the revenue that is coming in to the Government\u2014the revenue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f1447c7212a46d197f22553a70f0aec\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Year after year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c13ebc54abb41a18663a375aca750bc\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: Year after year after year the people of New Zealand will lose this revenue. Will this mean we have more risk? Absolutely, because even today we have T\u016Bwharetoa, and we have the M\u0101ori Council, which is putting in court cases and claims against this legislation, and who bears the cost of that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262c1d54f00e646d6945bb6aa8ade8ee6\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: The taxpayer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223486d155bcbc48219d01281a6de963a1\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: The taxpayer will bear the cost. The taxpayer will own only, according to Mr Ryall, 51 percent, but they will take the entire risk of any litigation against this legislation. So the taxpayer will take all the risk. The taxpayer will lose out on the revenue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EBut what about the cost? What about the cost to put this through? Well, Goldman Sachs Group, Macquarie\u2014those banks are going to receive around about $120 million in revenue to put this deal through. I can think of a lot more things that I would rather like to do with $120 million, and that might include decreasing class sizes. It might even go to getting behind and reversing the $45 million that this Government took out of improving teacher in-service training. That was supposed to increase the teacher quality that now this Government decides it wants to fix. And what about power prices? Well, Mr Ryall is leaving the Chamber before he hears this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2976befd82045cb844537f509c92e2f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member must not refer to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205b7949f2b024248a0dba158282396c0\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: What about power prices? Well, as an indicator of what is going to happen to power prices, let us look at what is happening already to the directors of these companies. They have just doubled their compensation to $2,500 a day. That is good work, when you can get it, is it not\u2014$2,500 a day that you will receive if you are a director of these companies. Already, they are not even sold off and they have bumped up their compensation for being a director. And where is that money going to come from? Well, the only place it is going to come from is out of the pockets of New Zealanders, because they are the people who are paying the power prices. So are power prices going to go up? Of course they are going to go up. Of course they are going to go up. There is nothing surer than power prices going up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EAnd are these shares going to end up in corporate ownership? Well, of course they are going to end up in corporate, overseas ownership. Of course they are, because if they do not, they will not get the price that the Government needs. That is what Treasury told the Government: \u201CYou\u2019ve got to sell overseas, otherwise you won\u2019t get the price.\u201D So did the Government put mums and dads\u2014that cutesy little phrase, \u201Cmums and dads\u201D\u2014in the legislation to make sure that these mums and dads, these New Zealand investors, will get to the front of the queue? Well, no, of course the Government did not do that. Of course it did not do that. If the Government was going to guarantee it, it would have put it in the legislation, and it did not do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003ESo here we are, standing in front of legislation that is obnoxious to New Zealanders. More than two-thirds of New Zealanders do not like this legislation and do not support this legislation. More than 100,000 people out there already\u2014in a few weeks\u2014have signed on to the citizens initiated referendum petition, and are queuing up to sign. This Government is still persisting in putting through this piece of obnoxious legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3938c4a33ba42b0ab26d1b05aa50ebd\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Out of touch. Out of touch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c14894b67264820874b97e716ec4219\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: As Grant Robertson just said, this Government is so out of touch with the way ordinary New Zealanders feel, and the way New Zealanders feel about selling off their assets. Mr Ryall has the audacity to say that compared with when Labour sold off assets in the 1980s\u2014two and a half generations ago, almost\u2014somehow this is less bad. That was awful, but this is somehow \u201Cless bad\u201D. It is still bad, but it is just slightly less bad than what it was in the 1980s. Well, it is still bad. It is still bad policy. To liken New Zealand\u2019s situation to that of Spain and Greece frankly is an insult to New Zealand and an insult to the people who work so hard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party will be working hard out in the streets to get those 300,000 signatures, and, as I said, people are queuing up to sign that petition. We will bring that back to this House. We will bring that back to this House and we will have a referendum on whether New Zealanders want this or not. I can tell you now the way that the referendum is going to go. It is not going to go well for the Government. In 2013 or maybe even 2014 there is going to be a referendum on asset sales that will flow through to the election in 2014. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b42b7dabe3914b6eaeef8b69172a39de\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: And the one after that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a28d4601629e4313af80d3eba8d3f08d\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: And the one after that, because New Zealanders do not want these assets to be sold. If that is not a Government out of touch, and if that is not a Government that is arrogantly dismissing the wishes and the desires of New Zealanders, I do not know what is. I do not know what is, but I can tell you and give you the commitment right now that the Labour Party will be out there fighting every inch of the way to make sure that these assets are not sold. We will be out there, come rain or sunshine, to get those signatures to make sure that the referendum goes ahead, and that New Zealanders get a real chance to have a say in the future of their country. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022900f37a166eb4fd2bba1ccf285df07d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022900f37a166eb4fd2bba1ccf285df07d4\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me pleasure to rise to speak in this debate. The last speech from the Leader of the Opposition reminded me of a speech I heard on 25 November last year. It was a Friday in Rotorua, and the sun was shining. At a dam not so far away, in the Taup\u014D electorate, the then leader of the Labour Party, Phil Goff, was standing with three or four of his supporters, and I heard a similar speech on the news that night. It was all about what was wrong with New Zealanders, how the Government was not listening to them, and what a great error they would make the next day if they voted for John Key and his Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI say to the current leader of the Labour Party: the solution is simple, and it is within his grasp. It is possible for him and his colleagues, during this debate, to stand up and say to New Zealanders: \u201CWe will buy these assets back.\u201D Stand up and say to New Zealanders: \u201CWe believe this is so wrong that today we make a commitment to buy those assets back.\u201D Can I say that at least one party in this House has stood up and laid its cards on the table in this respect, and told New Zealanders what it will do. I look forward to hearing that from the other speakers in the debate. Stand up and say to New Zealanders: \u201CThis piece of legislation is so wrong that today the Labour Party makes a commitment to buy it back.\u201D And you know what? I do not think we are going to hear that, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIn January of last year, 2011, Prime Minister John Key stood up and said to New Zealanders that there was a plan to sell parts of assets that were currently owned by the Government. He told New Zealanders about the mixed-ownership model. In January of last year, that was\u201419 months ago. Then all parties in this House campaigned on this issue, and 10 months later there was an election where New Zealanders knew, if they re-elected this Government, what would happen. They certainly knew from the Opposition what its position was on this issue. On that day, on 26 November, 1 million New Zealanders voted for a National Government\u2014the largest vote that any party has had under MMP. Significantly fewer voted for the Labour Party. In fact, I did a quick bit of research. It was one of the lowest votes that Labour has ever had under MMP. [Interruption] In fact, my colleague tells me that it was the lowest vote. So on the one hand we have a party that campaigned on an issue that was announced 11 months earlier, and we got the largest vote possible. We had another party that had a one-issue campaign\u2014a one-issue campaign; it is the only thing we can remember them talking about\u2014and it got the lowest vote possible under that scenario. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EToday this debate is about three things and three things only. It is about controlling debt and not borrowing more money, it is about strengthening capital markets, and it is about funding for new high-priority infrastructure programmes. That is all that this is about. We will hear lots of things from the Opposition, but that is all it is about. Do you know, the difference between what is proposed today is simple. Over 11 months last year this was campaigned on. Our Prime Minister, John Key, fronted up to New Zealanders and said that we will not do what other parties did previously and that we will retain 51 percent control for the Government on behalf of New Zealanders. He said that 49 percent would be offered up for sale to New Zealanders, for KiwiSaver, for the Superannuation Fund, and to iwi, and there will be a 10 percent maximum put on that so that no party other than the Government can own too much of these companies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIt is estimated that $5 billion to $7 billion will be raised to invest in important projects in New Zealand. It is not to go and borrow more money; it is to invest in important projects for New Zealand for New Zealanders to benefit from. You will hear in the debate from the Opposition that this is not a problem, that it is not about debt, and that this is all about other things. Well, our debt in New Zealand is forecast to peak at 30 percent of GDP, about $72 billion, and we are forecast to get back to surplus in a couple of years\u2019 time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWhen we came into Government 4 years ago we inherited an atrocious amount of debt, where it was forecast to spiral out of control. I am very proud as part of this Government that we have been able to turn that round in a small period of time. New Zealand will have one of the lowest levels of debt of any developed country in the world because of sound financial management and because of important sound financial decisions. When it comes to assets we have heard previously in the House that currently the Crown, on behalf of New Zealand, owns about $245 billion of assets. We have a very strong plan to grow that over the next 4 years to $267 billion. This is not, actually, about just what we own, because our commitment on this side of the House to assets is clear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESo what is going to happen to these funds? We are not going to go and borrow; I have said we are going to invest in important projects for New Zealanders. The Future Investment Fund will be established, which is another thing that our Prime Minister told New Zealanders about before the last election. He came forward, he made speeches, he spoke on doorsteps, he visited all parts of New Zealand, and he talked about our plan. So $1 billion from this will go into modernising and transforming New Zealand schools, and what a great thing that will be. As I visit schools around New Zealand, boy, do they need that support, and one of the best things we can do is to support young New Zealanders by doing more for them in education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EAlready $88 million is set aside for further hospital redevelopment, and I think we have only just started to hear the start of what the fund can be used for. For example, $250 million will go into KiwiRail. Some would say \u201CWhat a waste of money.\u201D, but, actually, the previous Government paid more to get it back than it was worth. There are some Australians who think that is a great idea, but we have made a commitment to turn it round and make it work for New Zealanders, because you cannot keep borrowing money to prop these things up. You cannot keep taking taxpayers\u2019 money and putting it aside, as the last Government did, to prop things up. They have got to work well, and this Government will invest further in that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThere will be $400 million for irrigation. What is going to get parts of our economy, our rural sector, going than good, solid, positive irrigation that balances the environment with the needs of the farming community, so that we can produce more and export more\u2014not borrow more, as the Opposition would have us do, but actually to export more. And then there is money going into industrial research, high tech, and so on and so forth. Those are some of the things we have announced in the Budget, some of the things that are still to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EBut can I say to you very clearly: New Zealanders have had an opportunity to come to this House via the Finance and Expenditure Committee and talk about this issue. The committee has given them all of the time that we could. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebf1259a7d2a431e88becf07c35044df\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216c90c63c20d4a6abbfb274d5055c635\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that members opposite do not want to make decisions; I accept that. I understand that members opposite at the last election said they were against this piece of legislation; I understand that. And I understand\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206dd59896d224629b0348044ea9987d7\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! What I want is what everyone wants in this world, and that is order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0df414529d744fca95c11210dc3a4c1\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I will do my best to stay in order. I understand that members opposite do not want this legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4d3cc3bfb9e4b68a314f2ac41f8f176\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member was able to speak. He was continuing. I want to question whether you should be protecting him, given the fact that that member was the one who stopped New Zealanders speaking when they wanted to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b089816faa7a4537b2e7a8428d1b9eb9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member may well have a point, but he also knows that that is a debating issue as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e51b622f6fe04e7fb3ce0f351d8492c4\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I can at least be grateful that Mr Mallard directs these attacks at me in the House, not outside, in the back. That has happened before. Can I say very clearly that members opposite do not like this; I understand that. They were making those speeches the whole of last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d2ae261987945ecb4f0e6b93fcb7e25\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You just asked the House to come back to the debate. That chicken member, who would not hear the debate in the committee, has gone right away from it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da6297fce0bf4fd59baf5ca2d9638905\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The House is getting a little bit out of order, and we are starting to slide down. I just ask members to reflect on this. This is a robust Parliament, as it should be, but we should also be mindful of the contribution of others. Courtesy is contagious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcad2f7aeb5a49a28097a196b8840b84\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Although I accept your ruling that courtesy, indeed, is contagious, one other issue that draws the House into disorder is when people tell untruths, and that becomes contagious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3a3a548c0db40438358d1f29a5d389f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member knows\u2014he is a longstanding member. He is a longstanding member, and he knows. The member will stand and withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc0d6f1a5cb94c139bbdf1a79ed46c24\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d61b028709834c299394110a29bdd82c\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The term \u201CTell the truth!\u201D is a phrase that creates disorder. That was a ruling from Speaker Wilson in the last Parliament, and it is in Speaker\u2019s ruling 42/3. I would ask the member to withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227986bedb261d45259248fcef11a8e15f\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: You will recall in the Parliament before last the obscenities, including terms far more incendiary than that\u2014including words like \u201Ccorruption\u201D and other things\u2014that were hurled at members of Parliament by that side of the House. If we are going to rule out the phrase \u201CTell the truth!\u201D, then I suspect we will not have a debate at all, in many cases, in this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d94addc12de342ad970d0b7cbeb2566f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Can I just ask members to reflect on the debate as it stands and debate the issues. But I have looked at Speaker\u2019s ruling 42/3, and it is indeed by Margaret Wilson. She said: \u201Cit is a phrase that creates disorder in this House, so from now on it will be considered an unparliamentary term.\u201D So I ask the member to withdraw. Withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220650bf4bcd77425e84f6f30dc3a6fc58\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb183738adc24e02baf1279adc90e31f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227775b54ab4da47dd8c167bdafb7671b2\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Oh\u2014how gracious!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be2fc40732244ce2b4e000ef96646d36\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275c6ddf9843f4d658ff5c36d18a286e7\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. The truth of the matter is that for 11 months of last year the Labour Party told New Zealanders not to vote for John Key and the National Government, as they would sell assets. The truth of the matter is, for 11 months of last year John Key told New Zealanders what he would do if we were re-elected to Government. He told New Zealanders about our plans. The truth of the matter is New Zealanders had an opportunity to vote. They did so. I commend this legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2774c33e544452ebd3c43b682759a91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2774c33e544452ebd3c43b682759a91\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The truth of the matter is that the member Todd McClay chaired a select committee, the Finance and Expenditure Committee, that abused, and truncated the contribution of, submitters. And that member, as instructed by the Minister for State Owned Enterprises, by his own admission\u2014in fact, he admitted it in the meeting\u2014instructed Treasury to produce a report on submissions. Do not shake your head. He should not shake his head. If he reads the minutes he will be shaking all right, but it will not be his head that is shaking. He instructed Treasury to prepare a report on submitters before they had finished submitting. Then in this House he and his ilk tried to stop the official minutes of the Finance and Expenditure Committee being let out and put on the website so that journalists and others could see their record of blocking the contribution of submitters. That is the truth of the matter. That chairman has made history in this place. He was led like a lamb to the slaughter, led by the nose by his Minister, to do exactly what he was told. And they were so afraid of the truth getting out that even when we asked Treasury officials questions, that chairman instructed the committee to block our request to have those answers tabled at the committee before we lodged our minority reports, because they did not want the answers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThere is a saying\u2014Edmund Burke, I think, said it\u2014that those who do not learn by their history are in danger of repeating it. I place on record the comments of Trevor Mallard and others that, yes, in our time in Government in the 1980s we sold assets, but we learnt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da97744e36d74bdf828a9cd089a236c1\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: When the member was at primary school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fd218853ffa4fe5bbffbbc5b13c54be\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: When I was 14, and, apparently, according to the Minister for State Owned Enterprises, totally responsible for all the ills of the 1980s Labour Government. We sold them, but we learnt. This mob, under the Bolger Government, sold the assets, and they are doing so again as quick as they can after they were returned to office under the Key Government. They learnt nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThere is a person in this House\u2014because this is a day of shame for this House and a day of infamy for New Zealanders as this bill goes through, if it goes through, by a wafer-thin majority\u2014who has never contributed anything to this debate. He has contributed not one speech, not one whimper\u2014well, maybe a wimp\u2014and not one contribution. That person is Peter Dunne. He is the man, of course, who would not even see his own constituents and talk through the issues, the man who has made no contribution and has hidden at every stage of this debate, and the man who will have the unique place in history as the man who gave the Government the vote it required to sell every New Zealander out\u2014the generations of New Zealanders who built these assets; the generation of New Zealanders, their grandkids and their kids, who have benefited from the revenue of these assets; and the future generations who will not benefit from the revenue of these assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe truth is that this Government has failed to convince New Zealanders of the worth of its proposition. We know that, consistently, polls have said that 80-plus percent of New Zealanders are against the sale of assets, which they already own. The Government uses as its justification the fact that it won an election, but what it forgets to tell New Zealanders is that it booked the proceeds from the sale of these assets in the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update but did not book the loss in dividends. What the Government fails to tell New Zealanders is that, yes, you save $266 million in debt-servicing costs but you give up $360 million per annum in dividends. That is a loss to the New Zealand taxpayer of 100 million bucks. What these people think is that Kiwis are silly and that after this bill\u2014if it goes through\u2014is passed, and after the Governor-General gives it Royal assent, like many issues in this Parliament, once the legislation is through, Kiwis move on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe problem this Government has, of course, is that all this legislation does is put the bullets in the gun. It enables this Government to sell assets, and then every year, at least for the next 4 to 5 years, this Government\u2019s programme, by its own admission, is to assent to sell a major asset. The Government says the first one will be Mighty River Power. The day the power bills go out, with the large increases, etched on the memory of every Kiwi will be the words \u201CWith the compliments of John Key\u201D. Those power prices will be visited, and those increases, on Kiwis\u2014ordinary Kiwi mums and dads\u2014who have no guarantee in this legislation that they will be first in the queue to get anything, because most of them do not have the thousand bucks they are going to need to look after their families, let alone buy a parcel of shares. They will know that those power prices are the direct responsibility of the John Key Government. And next year we will have another one, and the next year\u2014which, hey presto, happens to be election year\u2014there will be a third. That will be a weeping sore for this Government, a reminder\u2014and Kiwis will not forget\u2014that every year another bit of the family silver goes. They will remember, and my prediction is that they will visit retribution on these members. Peter Dunne will be, and is, a political cadaver over this issue, as we speak\u2014the walking, the crawling, dead. The body bags will be out for that member as the man who gave this Government the power, the vote it needs, to sell out ordinary New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe Government says that it expects 85 to 90 percent of these shares to be held in Kiwi hands. Well, let us look at the factual history of that. We have Contact Energy, which in 1999, on float, had 225,000 individual shareholders. That has now decreased by 65 percent to 78,225. That was without a loyalty bonus. And let us get to the loyalty bonus, because the loyalty bonus simply means this\u2014here is the prediction\u2014it simply puts off the fateful day when ordinary Kiwis will do what is best for them. I respect their right to do what is best for them, to survive in the economic archaeology that these people are leaving us. Kiwis will sell those shares because they will have a windfall gain, and if they do I respect their right to do so. But here is the deal: firstly, that costs this crew money, and, secondly, what I predict will happen is that the offer will expire, or take effect, from just after the next election, so that Mr Key can prance around like a sort of cock sparrow and say that 95 percent of New Zealanders, or whatever it is, are still in the scheme. Of course they will be, because they will wait for that loyalty bonus, they will take that windfall gain, and then they will do what is right for them in terms of their economic survival. Shares will be onsold, and there is no control in this legislation as to who\u2014foreign or domestic\u2014will be the recipients of those sold shares, just like there is nothing in this legislation, as we were told at the select committee, to stop the proverbial bus being driven through the 10 percent cap, and nothing at all to guarantee that Kiwis will be first in the queue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo I say to the Government that it has ridden roughshod over public opinion, and in its arrogant way believes that it is right. And in our society\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b414e8e475e84a4bba110ff75fc6335d\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266d02e1e6a1b4fd7a6c89b620aa16c9f\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: It is not true? So it is wrong? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221433f71fcfe141bca472fbb4d5bd7bfb\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c5a02bf0e974ca181b6d1064278f8bc\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, make up your mind. In our democratic society we have a thing called an election and a Parliament, and those who have the numbers can push things through. That is the nature of our sweet little democracy. But the people also have a say and the people also have a memory. The people have said that they do not want this to continue, and the people are now out on the streets\u2014not just, as John Key said arrogantly, the Labour Party and its members, the Green Party, and New Zealand First. Oh no. You have got Grey Power\u2014which, the last time I checked, I thought would have a few members who are a bit blue\u2014the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions, and a whole series of community organisations that are galvanised to stop this happening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe next test for the Government will be when this referendum gets up and is triggered. The Government will stand and be humiliated as 80 percent from a few opinion polls\u2014in fact, a lot of opinion polls\u2014becomes formalised to, I would predict, 80-plus percent of the voting public in a referendum who say this Government is wrong. Then we will have the ultimate sanction in 2\u00BD years\u2019 time, as members of the public go into the polling booth and give their verdict in respect of this Government\u2019s conduct. They will remember the rush. They will remember the arrogant statements. They will remember, and they will stand firm on their principles, which is to say that they own these assets, they have always owned these assets, they want to continue owning these assets, and they do not want these assets flogged off by any Government of any shade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI invite Mr Dunne\u2014wherever he may be in this Chamber; I am sure he is somewhere cowering under a desk\u2014to think very, very carefully on that as he casts his vote. The year 2014, colleagues, ain\u2019t that far away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u00222f99587230db44eba0c0f38cd850f4d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f99587230db44eba0c0f38cd850f4d6\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on behalf of the Green Party on the third reading of the Government\u2019s privatisation legislation, the State-Owned Enterprises Amendment Bill and the Public Finance (Mixed Ownership Model) Amendment Bill. History is the victory of remembering over forgetting, and I guess most New Zealanders\u2014if the polls are right\u2014understand their history. It would seem that most of the Government members do not, and they have lost, or forgotten, the lessons of history as they go down the privatisation path once again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWhat has, I think, been really inspiring about this debate is that most New Zealanders actually do have a vision, a long-term vision, for their country. The Government is promoting a very short-term vision: \u201CWe will just sell it off and pay the bills today, but we will have nothing left to pay the bills tomorrow.\u201D But most New Zealanders do not subscribe to the short-term vision of this Government when it comes to asset sales. What we have seen over and over again is that in spite of the Government\u2019s public relations campaign, most New Zealanders overwhelmingly do not want their power companies privatised. Most New Zealanders understand that this is part of the long-term vision for their country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWhen people sign the referendum petition they are not just signing a piece of paper that says: \u201CI demand my say on privatisation of the assets.\u201D What they are saying is: \u201CI believe in my country.\u201D What every one of those people who sign the petition\u2014the 100,000 people who have already signed the petition\u2014is saying is: \u201CI believe in the future of Aotearoa New Zealand.\u201D Every one of those people is saying that. The 350,000 people who will be signing the petition to force the referendum on asset sales, those people are the future of our country. They are the people who believe that Aotearoa New Zealand has a future, that they are a part of it, that they want to invest in our future, and that they are willing to hang on to the assets and make an investment in the future of their country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ENational has decided that the way it will solve its short-term economic and fiscal problems is to flick off the assets that it inherited when it got into Government. In order to pay the bills that the Government has and in order to fill the fiscal hole that it has because of the tax cuts to upper-income earners\u2014the fiscal hole that this Government created because of the tax cuts that it gave away to upper-income earners\u2014it is flicking off the assets. It is selling the assets that were built up over generations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe people who have been signing the petition\u2014the people who believe in the long-term future of our country\u2014are saying: \u201CI believe in the long-term vision of my country. I am willing to make a stand.\u201D It is not just about saying \u201CI demand that I should have a say.\u201D, although it is about that. People are saying: \u201CI should have a say about the future of my country and these assets that the Government is selling on for short-term gain.\u201D People are saying: \u201CI believe in the future of my country and I am willing to stand up for that future.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe Green Party put up an alternative future for these energy companies in the election campaign. In that election campaign the majority of voters cast their vote in favour of parties that wanted to retain the assets. A minority of voters voted for parties that supported asset sales. There is a very narrow majority in this House\u201461 votes to 60\u2014in favour of asset sales, because some of the parties that supported retention of the assets did not make the 5 percent threshold. In that election campaign the Green Party said: \u201CWe should retain these assets. They are our future.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThis is the next Fonterra for our country. The renewable energy sector is growing dramatically internationally, and these companies have the expertise and critical mass to actually project New Zealand into that global renewable energy market and renewable energy future. That was the alternative vision, and that remains the alternative vision. These companies should partner with private sector entrepreneurs. We have always supported that, because we believe that the private sector has a huge contribution to make. But by retaining the companies in State ownership, we ensure that the headquarters stay in New Zealand and we ensure that the research and development stays in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWe have seen what happens to every other infrastructure sector in New Zealand when they are flogged off. Whether it is telecommunications or banking, the companies get bought up from overseas, the headquarters are moved overseas\u2014usually to Australia\u2014the research and development is moved to overseas, and New Zealand simply becomes a profit centre for a multinational corporation. These companies will no longer become an export platform to the world, and part of New Zealand\u2019s economic future. Instead they, like the banking sector, simply become a drain on the New Zealand economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWe stood up against that and most New Zealanders voted against that at the election. Every poll shows that the vast majority of New Zealanders believe in the long-term future of their country, which is why they oppose privatisation. The majority of New Zealanders understand what this Government is doing. They understand that this is a short-term fix and that it will, in the end, simply leave us with more debt in the long term. It does not solve the underlying challenges, which are quite real, that face the New Zealand economy. That is what this legislation does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ESo every person who signs the referendum is writing their name down and saying: \u201CI believe in the future of New Zealand.\u201D That is what that referendum is all about. That is what the petition is all about. It is all about people who are willing to stand up against the short-term vision of this Government, a Government that has embarked on a reckless fiscal and economic path, and a Government that is selling assets in order to cover a short-term fiscal hole. New Zealanders are saying: \u201CWe don\u2019t agree with that strategy. We have a vision for our country, and that is why we are signing the petition. That is why we believe in our future.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe other part I think that is important about this debate is the understanding of the nature of the electricity sector in New Zealand. There is this naive belief within the Government that there is competition within the electricity market in New Zealand\u2014that perfect competition will solve all of the problems in the electricity market in New Zealand. It is a naive belief. It is childish to think that that is the case. The electricity sector will always be characterised by problematic competition because there are so few players. The retailers and the generators are hooked together as one in so many of the major companies. There is actually very limited competition in the sector, so it is very easy for these companies to extract super-profits out of the electricity market. So the naive belief that we hear from the Government that somehow perfect competition will lead to lower prices is simply not true, and the evidence is to the contrary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E The private electricity companies charge on average 12 percent more for electricity than State-owned enterprises do currently, when you look at the analysis of the data. This will only get worse, because Contact Energy and TrustPower have made public statements that they resent the State-owned enterprises because the State-owned enterprises put an anchor on the price of electricity in New Zealand. And once that anchor is lifted, then they are free to jack up prices and extract even more revenue from the sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWe have a long-term challenge around climate change and we have a long-term solution in front of us in the form of these energy companies. This is one of New Zealand\u2019s great opportunities to take advantage of the growth in the global green economy, and this Government does not seem able to see the reality that is facing it right in the face. It cannot seem to listen to all the leading business people from Pure Advantage and numerous other groups who have spoken to it about the green economic opportunities that are available, of which these companies are some of the prime examples, yet over and over this Government does not understand. It is trying to build an economy in the 19th century when we are in the 21st century. All it does is invest in carbon-intensive and fossil fuel - intensive companies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe transfer of wealth involved in this privatisation from the 99 percent to the 1 percent is a disgraceful transfer of wealth that the National Party, Peter Dunne, and John Banks are forcing through this Parliament. The fight is not finished. Every person who signs the petition is saying \u201CI believe in the long-term future of New Zealand.\u201D, and the Greens are with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00225d871467786b431c9810421941e6cab7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d871467786b431c9810421941e6cab7\u0022\u003EPAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to speak on the State-Owned Enterprises Amendment Bill and the Public Finance (Mixed Ownership Model) Amendment Bill. Given the heat from the other side, it is hard to think that this is the Labour Party that was quite happy to have the mixed-ownership model for Air New Zealand for all that time. It is hard to think this is the same Labour Party that Mr Cunliffe was a member of when he said, only in 2010, to the Institute of Policy Studies: \u201Cin a capital constrained environment, [Labour] will better leverage the Crown\u2019s balance sheet in new and innovative ways.\u201D He also said that we need to unleash State-owned enterprises to create and grow them with private partners and private shareholders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThat was Mr Cunliffe only 2 years ago. But now Labour members are manufacturing a great deal of heat over their opposition and it makes me wonder why they are doing it. Maybe they feel that the Greens are breathing down their necks and they are panicking, and now they are trying to get very excited about this. I suppose the question is whether they will buy it back when they get the opportunity. I am not sure that they will. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo why are we doing this? We are doing this to reduce our need for borrowing in a dangerous global financial environment. We need to build a more competitive and productive economy based on savings and investment and away from debt borrowed from foreign lenders. It is about controlling our destiny by keeping the total amount of Government debt under control. We watch the travails in some European countries and too often we assume it could never happen to us. Well, why not? New Zealand is heavily exposed in private debt, and that is why it is critical that our Government debt remains as low as possible. So our mixed-ownership model policy is part of a wider economic programme to reduce debt, increase savings, and get our country through one of the worst economic crises in 100 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThere is so much that we want to invest in in this country, and this ownership structure will free up $5 billion to $7 billion to invest in the Future Investment Fund in new, high-priority infrastructure projects. That is why it makes good sense. Another benefit from this legislation, as we have heard, is that it will help deepen New Zealand\u2019s capital market, extending ours into an ownership society. It is a policy that will boost the New Zealand stock market and broaden the pool of investment for New Zealanders. That is important, because that is how our companies will get the opportunity for more capital to grow further and to add more jobs, if we have a more effective capital market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThirdly, the most important aspect of this legislation for me is that by introducing a share of private sector investment, this legislation will strengthen the companies involved, by bringing to those companies private sector scrutiny and governance. The tenor of the debate from members on the other side of the House has been anti-business and anti - private enterprise. Profit is a dirty word, and private enterprise is all about putting prices up and ripping people off, they say. \u201CThey do not care about customers.\u201D, they say. It just goes to show that the Labour and the Green members on the other side have no idea about the reality of businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EIf a company is always more expensive than the opposition when providing the same thing, it will go out of business. That is how market capitalism works. And a company will be successful for its shareholders\u2014half the Crown and half the private sector\u2014only if it services its customers well, and to do that it needs to be as efficient as possible and to look after its own staff. The only time that that basic law of capitalism does not apply is when the State controls the provision of the goods and services and when there is no healthy competition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI commented in the Committee stage by quoting David Lange, when he referred to State trading enterprises that his Government had inherited in the 1980s. He said that they were \u201Cludicrously overstaffed, horribly overcapitalised, just embarrassments\u201D. So the State-owned enterprises that we have today are infinitely\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209eceef9d6dd4775b19a8166a2e0288d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: And people lost their jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb8a4328f68244bebfb4dfdc8972bfe3\u0022\u003EPAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: And they went on to do more effective things; they actually spent their lives doing something productive. That is what it was about. So we have a situation where we have an electricity market today that is working very effectively. In 14 out of the 21 regions in New Zealand the Powerswitch website indicates that it is the privately owned company that is the cheapest. In the past year 422,256 customers have changed retailer. So that indicates to me that we have a very effective market working, and that is the key to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EFinally, I wanted to say that if ever there was a policy that was clearly spelt out by a party coming into an election with a clear mandate, this is such a policy. We did not hide our light under a bushel. We came out in January 2011 and said: \u201CThis is our policy.\u201D Labour\u2019s entire campaign was focused on saying that this was going to happen. The Greens were opposed to it vigorously, and what happened? We had a very strong, clear mandate, the strongest polling result for any party in MMP\u2019s history. I am not surprised that most people are now turning their attention to buying it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWhat do they expect us to do\u2014to go back on our word? We made a clear indication prior to the election. We are going to stick with what we promised we would do, which is go through with this mixed-ownership model. We have also heard a lot of nonsense about the process. I was involved with the select committee process and I heard every single one of the submissions. It was a fair and detailed and extensive process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EFinally, we are looking forward to hearing Winston Peters speaking next. I will be very interested to hear him tell the House about back in 1988\u2014he has Shane Jones, his next deputy behind him\u2014and the 1988 prospectus for Auckland International Airport. It was signed off by the then Deputy Prime Minister and Treasurer, Mr Peters, when he said: \u201CWe are very pleased with the most successful public sale. It\u2019s popular capitalism in action.\u201D So I will be very interested to hear from him as to what has changed in the last 12 years, when he was quite happy to sell that. Now he is so strongly opposed to any of these things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo we are looking forward to this. I believe that this is excellent policy. I am very glad that we finally made the third reading of these bills and I commend them to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u002297c1fb1a8ac24d5abbe0315c6572face\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297c1fb1a8ac24d5abbe0315c6572face\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E What is private enterprise when the object is to raid the public enterprise? What is private enterprise about that? The second thing is that the previous speaker, Paul Goldsmith, knows full well that back in 1998 a party called New Zealand First walked out of a Cabinet and walked out of the second most powerful job in the country as Deputy Prime Minister and Treasurer because we would not sell Wellington International Airport. We learnt from our experience. How devious and specious is the National Party when it gives its word on issues like that? So let us have no more humbug like that. The day you do the same thing, we will know you have got some grit and courage to stand up for principles. That is our bona fides. What is yours? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ELet us have an obituary first of all. Let us begin with an obituary for the MP for \u014Chariu. For 28 years Peter Dunne has sat in this House, periodically switching sides so as to avoid the winds of change when they occasionally gust through here. His proudest achievements include being the only man in history to lead three political parties to oblivion. But he is also the only politician in the whole wide world to have planked on television. Remember that? That is his fame: 28 years in Parliament and he planked on TV. That is his record. What a plonker! What a plonker! Such was his desperation for relevance at the last election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cf66deb361a420190f6b32768ae5494\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Earlier in the debate I was forced to withdraw for using an expression that had been widely used. Much as I am reluctant to defend Peter Dunne, I think calling someone a plonker for planking is probably not quite within the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab44dfd2b8714c8090c1abe2829e88bd\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the spirit of the debate was light-hearted\u2014at least, that is the way I interpreted it\u2014but we really do not want any offence. That is why we have rules that all members are honourable members, and that appropriate nomenclatures and names should be used at all times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae47906effb44e5eb1fe756b1e3091f7\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Saved by Mr Key in a desperate exercise in deceit, Mr Dunne has one last chance to redeem himself, one last chance to represent his electorate and to stand up for the people of New Zealand, and one last chance to act for the people of this country, not for his own selfish, personal, egregious self-interest. In case Mr Dunne has forgotten, let us remind him. In the last election, this is what the United Future party\u2019s website said: \u201CNew Zealanders would never\u2014or should never\u2014accept a sell-off of the supply of the water, or any of the aspects around it.\u201D That is what he campaigned on, and then he used public, taxpayer money to do the same on TV in his party\u2019s advertisements and its commercials. You know, the last time we checked, Mr Dunne, power companies had dams. Dams are there to conserve water. Genesis Power, Meridian Energy, Mighty River Power, and Solid Energy all have an interest in the country\u2019s water supply. That is a fact. That is what the promise was, and, yes, for the previous speaker\u2019s sake, we do expect members of Parliament to keep their word. That is what he campaigned on. He cannot hide behind semantics now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EAgain, I say that he leads the party that said: \u201CNew Zealanders would never\u2014or should never\u2014accept a sell-off of the supply of the water, or any of the aspects around it.\u201D That unequivocal statement was repeated in United Future\u2019s taxpayer-paid television advertisements. So we challenge the member to dig deep, find the courage of his convictions, and do what is right for the people of \u014Chariu and New Zealand. It is his last chance, so that he is not disregarded as a footnote from 28 years of doing nothing, and remembered for planking. Or does he want to be remembered as the man who at the eleventh hour came to his senses, regained his integrity, and stopped the sale of critical taxpayer-owned assets? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWhy should we keep them? Well, the great English philosopher and statesman Edmund Burke\u2014of course, he used to be a paragon of virtue to the conservatives of this country at one time, when we had real conservatives and not sell-out merchants\u2014said: \u201CPeople will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors.\u201D In short, people who do not appreciate what happened in the past leave a poor legacy for the posterity of this country, and that is what National\u2019s mission is now. Those members should take heed. These words are as relevant today in the 21st century as during Georgian England. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe dams and power stations that supply this country with electricity were built by men of vision and stamina, and across party lines. When Labour and National were running this country decades ago, they agreed on these fundamental things being in the hands of New Zealanders. Their hard work and sacrifice must not be forgotten, for they believed in something that the members opposite me today do not. They believed in New Zealand. They believed in our collective identity as a nation. They believed in a national purpose. But this is a Government with no sense of history, no sense of purpose, and no sense of what is right. They are short-term thinkers with no vision or plan to lead the nation into the 21st century and out of the crisis we are in now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EYou know, we were told National would lead us to the brighter future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5b0b453244f4a329bda455e59ed8f12\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: Over in Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b22ce6f0ccf94af78354748aca960cfc\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. National was going to lead us to a brighter future. \u201CI am aspirational\u201D, says \u201CMr Spray and Walk Away\u201D; \u201CI believe in the glass being half full.\u201D Of course he is aspirational. Basically, what is he in the job for? So it can be on his CV before he swans off back to Hawaii when the going gets tough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dd2929ec9d04b60af901e4d4f1b3d37\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: With his bodyguards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feae0bbce75e4d87ad380d6c54e5445a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: With his bodyguards\u2014oh, not bodyguards this time. Oh no, you cannot take the bodyguards when you are an ex - Prime Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EYou know, back then people believed in the collective identity of a nation and national purpose. These members have no such belief. They said they would provide sound economic management. They even said they would stop the exodus to Australia. What a con that was\u2014what a con! And all they have to offer is some half-baked, hare-brained scheme that might raise a small amount of capital in the interim, but in the long term will leave the country worse off. Every independent economist has said that. Everyone who came before the Finance and Expenditure Committee said that as well. Almost 1,500 submissions all said that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8fdfe4be41d4ff5b0da2b77bdeb293f\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: And they blocked them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfffac62c0d7417b9cf95f38f565b114\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: And they blocked them. So, panicked, they got the bill out of the select committee, and now they are debating it in Parliament. The parliamentary report-back date for that select committee was 16 July\u201416 July. Three weeks from now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022894672380e474b22b0e331ec2026ae7a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re efficient.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b66c614c05742c691ec9e936bf174e3\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. They wanted it out of the way. This sale will lose hundreds of millions of dollars of dividends to the country in respect of retained profits, and that is only a conservative estimate. I daresay we can expect the actual figure to be much higher. To think that after 3\u00BD years this is the best National could come up with\u2014the best it could come up with after 3\u00BD years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe worst part is that we have been here before, as other speakers have said. Look at Telecom. It was sold for $4.25 billion in 1990, and delivered dividends to its foreign owners and its new owners of $15 billion. Nearly $9 billion of that went overseas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccf792ac5e4a4c0bbbb2d01f52510d6a\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Overseas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b726ce02ada4cc4a7a62a574a2baca2\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. It was sold for $4.25 billion, it delivered $15 billion in dividends, and $9 billion of that has already gone offshore, and those members think it is a good idea\u2014they think it is a good idea. It is a huge transfer of wealth\u2014like a giant vacuum cleaner\u2014out of this country every year, and they talk about a brighter future. I suspect they are doing it because of the financial backers of the National Party. It is why Mr Key spent so much time with the boys from the Macquarie Group. Check out his diary\u2014that is the inside word. That capital, as I say, could have been reinvested in other New Zealand productive enterprises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EAnother example is BNZ. It was sold for $1.5 billion in 1992. It has transferred to its Aussie owner $13 billion in wealth every year, like a giant vacuum cleaner. No matter what we do now, we are a standout economy in this context. No other similar economy has so much of its ownership in foreign hands. And we have got a group of people over here who wrap around the national flag at election time but do their utmost for the next 365 days, times three, to sell the flag down the river. That is their legacy: treachery and treason. They can do and say what they like, but those are the facts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI will tell you what is going to happen. When the next election is over and the dust has settled, we are telling everybody\u2014and I mean this, because New Zealand First is notorious for being tough negotiators\u2014that we will take it back at the price we paid. [Interruption] Laugh now and cry later. I have seen these members climbing over cut glass to get to New Zealand First. Well, here comes part of the price\u2014get that clear now. We do not intend to vacate our responsibility to the New Zealand people just because some, temporarily empowered over there, have decided that treason, treachery, and betrayal will be their political mantra.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u0022af47e179c4b24e539cda1c0a2669b904\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af47e179c4b24e539cda1c0a2669b904\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E It has been interesting in the House this afternoon listening to commentator after commentator, member after member, talking about history. Well, a bit like the Leader of the Opposition, I was in the aid business before I came to this place, and here is some history. It is actually set out in Time magazine this week, on 25 June, page 9. \u201CWho wants to be a millionaire?\u201D is the little heading, and it ranks the countries with the greatest proportion of households as millionaires. The lead country has a 17 percent share. What is the name of the country? Can anybody tell me? Let me tell you. It is Singapore. Singapore is the same size as Lake Taup\u014D, it has no assets, no natural resources, and it has the same population as New Zealand. So how come Singapore is at the top of the pile? When I went to Singapore in 1977, to our high commission there\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022039feb3ec4e449d3a132c5d966841472\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: You should\u2019ve stayed there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a48b9ead4bd4f6497566705606a9aab\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014your Government was giving them foreign aid. What was one New Zealand dollar worth in 1977? It was worth 3.40 Singapore dollars. What is it today? One for one. Who has got to the top of the millionaire pile? Singapore. Where are we? We do not even rate. There has got to be reason for that. How is it that Lee Kuan Yew and his Government have moved his country from the Third World to the First World in 30 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E I will tell you how it was done. It was done without corruption, because it has a clean Government. It was done through pragmatic, common-sense economic policies. And if we want to stay in a poor space for our community, if we do not want to buy Herceptin for women who have cancer, if we do not want to retire at 65 and we want to push the age back to 75, then just stick with the Labour and New Zealand First arguments. Just stick to the New Zealand First, and Labour, and Green arguments. I would rather listen to the community\u2014the community that voted in the last election. And in my electorate the community voted for exactly this legislation. I stood on the platform\u2014there was not a New Zealand First candidate, but there was from Labour and there were from the Greens. They got trounced by the people in Wairarapa. Those people said: \u201CNo, no, no. We don\u2019t want to listen to holding these assets. We don\u2019t want to have more foreign debt so we can pay interest to foreign bankers offshore, thank you very much. We don\u2019t want to increase debt. We don\u2019t want a downgrading of our credit rating. We want to sell 49 percent of some of our assets so that we can use the capital to build better skills, to build better science blocks, to keep the Wairarapa Hospital going in Masterton, and those sorts of things.\u201D That is what the community said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EAnd I can tell you what the polls are saying now. The polls are saying that 60 percent of those polled want to buy these shares. They want to buy these shares. So I do not understand what the Opposition is on about. The community has said that it wants to build a more competitive and productive economy based on savings and investment, because that is how Singapore got there. It had 30 percent savings in their economy and everybody paid. And we want to move away from foreign debt. We want to move away from foreign lenders. We want to keep the money in our country. [Interruption] Just keep in mind, Mr Peters, that we see on television, almost every night of the week now, the damage that too much debt has done to countries like Greece, a failed State. Debt has damaged Spain, and it is going to come up and damage Italy. It today damaged Cyprus. We can see that damage, and we do not want it in New Zealand. No, we do not. My people in the Wairarapa do not want to see that, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003ESo what this legislation does is say that we will guarantee that the Government, the people of New Zealand, will own 51 percent, a controlling interest in the shares, and that we are prepared to strengthen our capital markets by attracting money from other people, particularly New Zealanders, to purchase these shares. And doing that will help us not go to foreign lenders. Also, requiring and preventing any other than a New Zealand shareholder owning more than 10 percent will ensure widespread New Zealand investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdb708d338aa4c938d923468e1a865b8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Plug him in again; he\u2019s run out of steam.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e9864c6c9794334b3a14551c028ffe4\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: This, Mr Peters, is a partial share float. It is a partial share float, not a whole share float, as your Government presided over. It is a partial share float, and the point of doing it is to broaden and deepen our capital markets\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d336db9073fe49c9b042b4af5d019552\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: This member\u2019s broad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022facc208788e546b7b0b24ac87bcfe66a\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: But he\u2019s not bald. We need to grow our capital markets because that is how our companies get the opportunity for more capital to grow further, to add more jobs, and to get into businesses like pharmaceuticals and electronics, like Harvest Electronics in Masterton, that will grow significant businesses and export income for this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThis debate is about three things: it is about controlling our national debt, it is about strengthening our capital markets, and it is about providing funding for new high-priority infrastructural projects. If Opposition members are so against the partial sale of these assets, then I would invite them\u2014any member of the Opposition, in New Zealand First or the Greens\u2014to stand up in this House in this debate now and give an undertaking that should they make the Treasury benches, they will buy the shares back. I want to see a brighter future for my children, for my grandchildren, in this country. I support this legislation unreservedly. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca76d0752757477090341b1cf931c816\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca76d0752757477090341b1cf931c816\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E This legislation, which arises from the Mixed Ownership Model Bill, has been described as a \u201CDunne deal\u201D. Many people have pointed to the opportunity the member for \u014Chariu has to stop this deal in its tracks. I want to say that it is more than just a \u201CDunne deal\u201D; it is a \u201CDunne-y deal\u201D. This is a deal that flushes a big chunk of New Zealand\u2019s economic sovereignty down the toilet. This is a dunny deal for New Zealanders. Today is the third reading of this legislation. It has been an atrociously rushed process. We had in our Finance and Expenditure Committee, despite what members opposite have said, a rushed process. Five minutes was the limit for many submitters. We were allowed to ask one question\u2014one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270d6386471834144840fa0e44909da20\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Undemocratic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201e8ff16cb1c47989f7cd95ca4edba96\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: It was undemocratic, as the member says. We reported back 5 weeks early, despite no time pressures, and we had rushed teleconference arrangements, which meant many people could not make their contribution. There were no visits to my home town. Many people felt aggrieved by these rushed processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022371a338705bc4b2a991c3ba1a5f1b7e4\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I thought they promised to go to Dunedin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a01213bebd3e4be4a82d1154832bca8b\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: They talked about going to Dunedin, but they never went there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, this process still gave the Government an overwhelmingly negative message. It still fed back to the Government that nobody likes this deal, this \u201CDunne-y deal\u201D for New Zealanders. Just 0.6 percent of the submissions that we heard were in favour. Of the over 1,400 submissions, just 0.6 percent of people wished to speak in favour of this legislation. But the Government had cotton wool in its ears.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EIt has no mandate. We have heard various members opposite try to argue for one. They will try and try but they will fail. More votes went to parties in the election just gone that opposed asset sales than to parties that supported asset sales. You cannot rewrite history, I say to members opposite. The mandate is not there for these sales. Only 0.6 percent were in favour. Over 98 percent were against these sales. We had people voting for parties that opposed these sales, not parties that supported them, in overwhelming numbers, and we had a rushed process designed to take the heat out of this issue. Well, it will not happen. The issue will not go away. New Zealanders know that this is a bad deal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EMighty River Power is the first asset that National wants to put on the blocks. It is owned by all of us now; National wants to make it owned by a privileged few. There is a citizens initiated referendum out there that is gathering momentum. We know that it already has got 100,000 signatures, and we know that New Zealanders will be out there campaigning as it goes on. More and people are collecting these signatures. We know that number is going to grow. We know that the necessary number of signatures will be reached, probably before this year is out. So the New Zealand public is giving the Government a clear message. It still may not hear it, but it would be a very foolish Government that ignored a citizens initiated referendum. I would not put it past this Government, but I would say it would be a foolish Government that would ignore it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe heard Bill English at question time today shedding some crocodile tears over salary increases for chief executives and directors under his watch. There were crocodile tears that the salaries had risen under Labour\u2019s term. Well, there can be no way that those crocodile tears mean that increasing them still further is a good idea. Yet we have heard that directors\u2019 salaries have gone up again. And how are they going to be paid for, we ask ourselves? How are those directors\u2019 salary increases and chief executives\u2019 salary increases going to be paid for as these companies are prepared for private sale? How are they going to be paid for? We know. We know that those salary increases will be paid for by higher power prices. This is something that we had submitters tell us through the select committee process. We asked the Government to do some research on it, to have its Treasury officials do it, but unfortunately it had already asked the Treasury officials to write the report, before we had heard all of the submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dc78b97482e495c8f46c656be4ccc69\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: No!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0fb3409e9b34ded9c3fa2af68bf57ff\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am deadly serious. Treasury wrote its report. It was against democratic principles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267f58bdcf7004941a34e686521c73800\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: It was that Todd McClay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234f3be0a9ef34e44ac36e2cb91671047\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: It has been a rushed process. Mr Todd McClay was involved; it started from the chair. It is outrageous. These chief executive officer and board salaries are like the farmer fattening up the pig before it goes to the slaughterhouse. A recent New Zealand Herald survey found that the chief executive officer pay of the four energy companies rose 26.3 percent between 2010 and 2011, compared with general chief executive officer salaries going up just 0.4 percent overall. Those directors\u2019 fees have risen, and who will pay for them? We know. We know who will pay for them. It will be us. It will be the consumers of power in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThere are also Treaty issues that have not been put to bed. Again, the select committee process gave room for these issues to be addressed, but they were put to one side. The chair dismissed them and said they were no problem. Well, we glossed over them in the select committee, but T\u016Bwharetoa have not yet let go. They said that they were contemplating action that would undo the asset sales legislation. If the Government wants to use the water resources that T\u016Bwharetoa say they gifted for public good, without working through the Treaty issues, it is running a big risk. We know that when Richard Prebble tried to sell off State-owned forests in 1989, the M\u0101ori Council took the Government all the way to the Privy Council, because the Government was about to sell land that was subject to unresolved Treaty claims. And it won. It won, and T\u016Bwharetoa will use that as a precedent. The Government will lose. It has not learnt from history. The Labour Party has learnt from history. The National Government refuses to learn from history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228d9d20f6ec047b8ad779355a4b9c6bd\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. Some of us learnt with our jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8f1288eec0d4f10943ba6498bf4b2ed\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Mallard said earlier that he lost his seat, and his colleagues Mr Goff and Ms King lost their seats, as a result of the asset sales that took place in the 1980s. They spent 9 years in the wilderness, and they learnt their lesson. The National Government did as many asset sales as it could in the 1990s, but here it is, back at it again. It does not bode well for National\u2019s future election chances for it to ignore the will of the New Zealand people, but on it goes. It is not willing to listen to the will of the people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWhat did John Key promise, as we went into the last election campaign? He promised, and these are his words\u2014the words of John Key\u2014\u201CWe\u2019re giving people a commitment that 85 to 90 percent of the entire company will be owned by New Zealanders. That is my commitment to them tonight, as Prime Minister.\u201D He said that in the leaders\u2019 debate. Well, we wonder now what those words were worth, because we now know that those words are not given effect in the legislation. It is like the Prime Minister promising not to put GST up. We know where that led. That led to tax cuts for the wealthiest New Zealanders while the rest of New Zealand\u2014middle New Zealand\u2014struggles on. So we know that those words may well not be honoured, because they are not worth the sentence that they make up. There is nothing in the legislation to ensure it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe other point to make is that this is about mums and dads being at the front of the queue, so the rhetoric goes, but we know that New Zealand mums and dads already own these assets. The sale of these assets makes no sense. Most mums and dads do not have any cash to spare once they have paid their electricity bill at the end of the week. They sure as hell will not have the money to stump up to buy these shares.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EJohn Key says that the typical individual bundle of shares is about $5,000 worth. So if you want to keep your shares in Mighty River Power, in Meridian Energy, in Genesis, in Solid Energy, and in Air New Zealand, Mr and Mrs Consumer out there are going to have to fork over a total of about $25,000. It is not the mum and dads I know who have that cash floating around. Most Kiwis cannot afford to pay $25,000 to buy something they already own.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis is made even worse by the economy, which National has been neglecting. Rather than promoting policies that would promote growth in our country\u2014pro-growth tax policies, decent savings policies, research and development policies, and other policies that would support our exporters\u2014National seems to be interested just in selling off those assets we already own. It is not interested in supporting exporters. We had submissions in the select committee that this policy would increase costs and red tape. The National Government was not interested in doing its homework. It does not actually care about New Zealand businesses. It does not actually trust New Zealand businesses to grow our stock market. It thinks we have to get Government assets on to the stock market, because it does not think New Zealand business people are capable of growing our capital base. That is the message that it is sending, and it certainly has lost touch. That is the thing we need to note from this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ETo conclude, I want to just say that these asset sales make no sense. New Zealanders know that, the citizens initiated referendum is going to bring that home to the Government, and it will proceed with these sales at its peril. This is a \u201CDunne-y\u201D deal. We are flushing more of New Zealand\u2019s sovereignty down the toilet. It makes no sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002264ae9cfd6caa4495a317f89f421860f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264ae9cfd6caa4495a317f89f421860f3\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. The first call goes to the Greens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022dfee9293f61249b3bcf2050e6424decd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dfee9293f61249b3bcf2050e6424decd\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. If New Zealanders thought it was such a good idea that they should have to buy assets that they already own and pay twice for them, first through their, their parents\u2019, and their grandparents\u2019 taxes for the infrastructure that the State-owned enterprises have built up\u2014the dams, the hydro generation capacity\u2014and then through paying to get shares in the assets that the Government is now selling, we would not need a massive public relations and advertising campaign to try to convince the public that it makes any kind of economic sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EGovernment members are scared. They are scared of what is happening in Europe. They are scared that in the middle of the global recession they will get so little from the sell-down of our energy companies that they will have created an even worse economic mess. They are scared that they will not be able to spend up large and underwrite irrigation schemes that they have been promising agribusiness and the construction industry. But most of all they are scared that New Zealanders will tire of their stunted economic thinking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThey are scared because most New Zealanders oppose asset sales. Most New Zealanders know that it does not make sense to sell these strategically important and highly profitable assets. That is why tens of thousands of New Zealanders are signing the petition to get a referendum on these asset sales, and that is why the Government is spending $120 million, some of which is going to organisations and companies like Clemenger BBDO and SenateSHJ, to run a public relations and spin campaign to try to persuade Kiwis that it is a good idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe expertise in our State-owned energy companies could be the cornerstone of a cleaner, smarter, and more robust economy. It could help New Zealand lead rather than lag in the race for green growth. As the recent Pure Advantage report noted, many OECD countries are demonstrating the link between green growth and strong economic performance. To quote the report: \u201CCountries all over the world are investing in green development to help their economies\u2019 transition to a more robust, sustainable and economically benign platform.\u201D But not in New Zealand. No, under this Government we lag behind, both in our environmental indicators and in the Government\u2019s seeking of economic nirvana through dinosaur thinking of the last century on intensive resource exploitation. We are seeing that this week with the aerial surveys over the South West New Zealand World Heritage Area to find mineral resources. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe have the resources in Aotearoa, and we have the expertise and the experience in producing renewable power and in managing grid systems that supply renewable energy. The Government is selling our best opportunity to become large-scale exporters of renewable energy technology, and that is because under this legislation there will be no statement of intent provided to the companies by Ministers, no principle of social responsibility, and no ability for Government Ministers to influence and direct the companies towards cleaner energy technologies and to have an operating strategy that benefits New Zealand\u2019s overall energy strategy and mix. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWorse still, this legislation will make our debt problems worse. The Government says that it has an expectation that no more than 10 to 15 percent of the shares in these companies\u2014that is, 20 to 30 percent of the shares it wants to sell\u2014will end up in foreign ownership, but that is $2 billion more foreign ownership, $2 billion more on our net international liabilities. We already send about $10 billion a year overseas in profits to the owners of our companies and to our foreign debtors. Selling our energy companies to foreign owners will only make that worse. Even on the very conservative numbers provided by the Government, about $100 million a year in profits will flow offshore. That is $100 million a year that we will have to make up for by borrowing or selling more assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThere were amendments suggested in the Committee stage that would have put a fence round foreign owners and investors buying these assets. Those amendments were sensible, but they were opposed. So there is nothing in this legislation that ensures that Kiwis get the major stake in these assets, and that is because the Government knows that Kiwis cannot afford to pay again for what they already own, and so it needs to sell to overseas buyers. If the Government and its support partners were serious about these asset sales being an opportunity for Kiwis to invest, they would have supported those amendments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe oppose this legislation. Tens of thousands of New Zealanders oppose it and are standing up for Aotearoa and a better economic future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u00221cc949f5f18447eb8b293b5b30a1b7b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cc949f5f18447eb8b293b5b30a1b7b0\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We often have robust debate in this House, but there are very few days that you can actually say are a day of shame for the New Zealand Parliament. This, unfortunately, is one of those days. National knows that it does not have a mandate to sell State assets. It knows that despite the fact that we are going to save some money in terms of debt servicing, we are going to be losing more money in terms of the revenue flow from those companies, and we are going to be $100 million worse off. National members know that. They know that overwhelmingly New Zealanders do not want them to do this, but they do not care. They do not care, because the people that they really represent in this Parliament, the people they trot down to Wellington every week to truly represent, do support asset sales. They are the 1 percent that is going to benefit from the hocking off of the assets that the rest of us own. There are very few opportunities to see that glimpse of truth of whom National really represents. Rarely do we get it, but we have got it on this legislation. The 1 percent\u2014that is whom those members come down here to represent. That is who is going to benefit, and it is the rest of us who are going to pay for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThey like to say that this is a great opportunity for mum and dad investors. Well, mum and dad investors already own these companies. And if there ever was a more true definition of Tory charity, it is selling people something that they already own, and then expecting them to be grateful for it. Mums and dads already own these assets. Most mums and dads I know are more concerned about how they are going to pay the power bill than trying to buy the power company. That is how out of touch the National Party is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe quality of the Government\u2019s arguments and speakers we have had so far speaks volumes. We had Todd McClay, chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, who oversaw a shoddy process where he reported back 5 weeks early. He rammed the Mixed Ownership Model Bill through the select committee process so that it did not have the public scrutiny it needed. They often say that the role of the Finance and Expenditure Committee chair is an audition for Cabinet. Well, I can say that based on his performance, he can look forward to a long political lifetime of patsy questions, Mr McClay\u2014a long lifetime. I remember when I sat on the Finance and Expenditure Committee, and the National Party went apoplectic about how rushed that process was. Do you know how long that process took? It took 58 hours of hearing submissions and 16 hours of deliberation. Well, under Mr McClay\u2019s watch the committee departmental report was written before the submitters had even submitted, and there was less than an hour of deliberation\u2014less than an hour. That is a double standard, and it shows just how scared National is about the political impact of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThen we had Paul Goldsmith, who lectured us on the virtues of market capitalism and told us that only private companies can ever run anything efficiently. Apparently, the global financial crisis was just something that happened to other people, in Mr Goldsmith\u2019s world. He says that we have to do this because that is the only way we are going to get productivity out of these companies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EBut National\u2019s king-hit argument is that it is doing it because Labour did it a quarter of a century ago. Well, it was wrong then, and it is wrong now. Labour paid politically and electorally for those decisions, and, more important, the country paid economically for those decisions to privatise in the 1980s and 1990s. That is why the last Labour Government sold no assets. In fact, we had to purchase some of them back because they were being stripped and because they were at risk of falling over. I wonder whether Mr Goldsmith thought that Air New Zealand was a shining model of market capitalism when it nearly got bankrupted and the Government had to bail it out\u2014the Government had to bail it out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EKiwis know that we are all going to be poorer as a result of these sales. They know that power prices are going to have to go up when the motive becomes profit maximisation rather than any kind of aspect of social responsibility. The State-owned companies under their current legislation have to show restraint around pricing and have social responsibility. That is why, on average, they charge less than the privately run companies. The Government\u2019s response to this is to say that, no, people are going on the internet to swap power companies, and that shows the market is working. No, it does not. It shows that people are desperate. It shows that they already cannot pay their power bills, and they are looking for any way to reduce that burden. That is why New Zealanders oppose these asset sales: because power prices are going to go up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is unique in the world in not having any protections for domestic power consumers to ensure that they can pay the power bills. That is why, since the global financial crisis hit, in New Zealand power prices have continued to increase while everywhere else in the world, as those protections have kicked in, power prices have gone down. There is no protection for domestic power consumers in New Zealand. Power prices will go up. The Government does not have a mandate to sell these assets. It should admit that. Where is Peter Dunne, the man whose\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eea06055e5c34e8991d3b5e2f3454d1a\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00224460b182b03b4912b9b83e094318ad29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224460b182b03b4912b9b83e094318ad29\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa. I am pleased to take the opportunity to represent the M\u0101ori Party in setting out our position on this legislation. The M\u0101ori Party has maintained a clear position on the mixed-ownership model from the moment it was mooted, and that is to oppose this legislation, which enacts National\u2019s decision to sell a significant share in specific State-owned assets. The planned sale of power companies raises issues of ownership and management of freshwater and other natural resources that are still under discussions between iwi and the Crown. We absolutely support the well-founded right of M\u0101ori to be party to those discussions. We also remind the Crown of its obligation to enter into dialogue with its Treaty partner, and I hope to speak to that matter shortly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ELet me make it clear that we strongly oppose the removal of the four State-owned enterprises from the State-Owned Enterprises Act, and the proposal to sell 49 percent of these important Crown assets, until historical Treaty settlements are concluded with all claimants who wish to include these assets in the redress package. We should not claim that not a lot is left in the bucket on the one hand while, at the same time, selling off the resource. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EOur position has been informed by the context of some fundamental kaupapa that the M\u0101ori Party believes in, and it forms the foundation of our analysis of the legislation. Kaitiakitanga talks about resource management and healthy water, land, and people. Whakapapa relationships talks about the relationship between the sea and inland, and our commitment to enhancing the well-being of wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi. It is also about understanding the interconnectedness between the different elements of our environment. Mana whenua and mana moana are about rights and responsibilities. These are the sorts of kaupapa that give us a M\u0101ori world view and concepts by which we should operate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThen we must consider the historical context: a history shaped by far-reaching decisions throughout our history in education, land, te reo M\u0101ori, forestry, radio, and television. It is a history that has helped define our nation, ensuring that M\u0101ori have the same rights as others to the protection of law, and recognising our unique distinctiveness as tangata whenua and as one of the two partners of the Treaty. Vitally, it reminds us all of the constitutional significance of Te Tiriti o Waitangi as instructing us on how we should live together as partners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESince the famous New Zealand M\u0101ori Council lands case in 1987, Treaty protections have kept economic and strategic assets of huge value in New Zealand hands; they have been guaranteed protection by the Treaty of Waitangi settlement process. To arrive at a point whereby that partnership is beginning to be recognised by the Crown through its legislation has taken many, many years, and we have been absolutely determined to follow that through and preserve it. This legislation is a backward step that makes a mockery of a proud history and, in particular, section 9 of the State-Owned Enterprises Act 1986, which declares that \u201CNothing in this Act shall permit the Crown to act in a manner that is inconsistent with the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E Despite voting against this legislation, we are happy enough with the precedent established by that section 9, which is retained in this legislation. We fought very hard and to the wire to ensure those protections were maintained, but we know that the fight is not over. Although we know that the legislation imposes Treaty obligations on the Crown, there are, however, some fish-hooks about how the Crown will exercise its Treaty obligations. As a case in point, the Crown Treaty obligations apply only to the exercise of the Crown\u2019s powers as a shareholder. And what would that mean in practical terms? That is pretty much uncertain at this point. Under this bill the Crown-appointed directors would not be subject to the Crown\u2019s Treaty obligations. Although it would be unorthodox, it would have been a showing of good faith if this bill spelt out how the Crown\u2019s Treaty obligations would be met through its directors. These questions prompted us to vote in support of the amendments put forward by Mr Mallard and Mr Parker at the Committee stage that would enable companies and the directors placed under a mixed-ownership structure to continue to be bound by the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi, but it was not to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThis legislation has been a mammoth exercise that iwi M\u0101ori have been actively engaged with. The M\u0101ori Party pays a huge tribute to all of those iwi and, indeed, to the 1,488 submissions, of which many were from iwi and hap\u016B groups, for being prepared to stand up and be counted. It would be impossible to summarise these views, but I did want to ensure that this final debate ends with the words of iwi. In this case I have turned to the submission from one of our own, Te Ariki Tumu te Heuheu, on behalf of Ng\u0101ti T\u016Bwharetoa. The collective Ng\u0101ti T\u016Bwharetoa position was to oppose the bill on five clear grounds, and I will outline those now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E Firstly, they said that \u201CNg\u0101ti T\u016Bwharetoa are the legal owners of the lakes and rivers used by Mighty River Power and Genesis Power \u2026\u201D. Their concern is that the model privatises electricity generation operations on their waterways without them having any say in the matter. They are not prepared to stand by and watch private commercial interests generating private profits from lakes and rivers they own in freehold title. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EPart 2 of the submission was about the fact that these power schemes were established to generate electricity for the public good, not for private profit. Sir Tumu, in his eloquent way, said that \u201CThe model expressly enables the privatisation, and consequential commercialisation, of schemes that were previously operated in the national interest.\u201D T\u016Bwharetoa also remarked that it was a very auspicious occasion in 1993, under the National Government of the day, when Lake Taup\u014D was returned to the hands of Ng\u0101ti T\u016Bwharetoa. This legislation will now urge them to reconsider their position around public free access, in light of the likely commercial exploitation of the Taup\u014D waters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe third element I want to talk to from the T\u016Bwharetoa submission was that \u201Cjustice dictates \u2026 our opportunity to reach a fair resolution \u2026 Treaty claims should not be foreclosed by the sale of the SOEs.\u201D This is a key position for iwi across the motu\u2014that our rights need to be properly provided for before the sale of any State-owned assets results in the trampling of those rights. The fourth issue raised was that Ng\u0101ti T\u016Bwharetoa has a relationship with the Crown and is therefore entitled to expect that the Crown will act honourably and consistently with its Treaty obligations. This is what they expect as a party to the Treaty relationship. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFinally, they said that relationships with the Crown are critical to the success of electricity generators like Mighty River Power and Genesis, and yet this does not get translated into this bill. T\u016Bwharetoa describe the significant relationships that they have entered into with various landowning entities and Mighty River Power, such as the joint ownership of Tuar\u014Dpaki Power Station. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI want to make it clear that we are not here to tell iwi what to do with their money, but I think that the points that Ng\u0101ti T\u016Bwharetoa and, indeed, many iwi have made in opposing this legislation are really important drivers as to how the Government can expect to work in good faith with iwi going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EOne of the critical omissions in this legislation is that it does not include a social responsibility requirement, as in section 4(1)(c) of the State-Owned Enterprises Act. That section requires each State-owned enterprise to, amongst other things, be \u201Can organisation that exhibits a sense of social responsibility by having regard to the interests of the community in which it operates and by endeavouring to accommodate or encourage these when able to do so.\u201D This has been a really important basis for many iwi in establishing an effective relationship with the entities. It has provided an important balance to the commercial focus of the State-owned enterprises and reflects the public good\u2014say, for electricity generation\u2014for which they were established. A lesson for the Government must be to build on these relationships and to be socially responsible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to reiterate the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s strong opposition to this legislation but also our commitment to futureproofing the next generation. Thinking ahead is an important pillar to making sure that we look after our natural resources and the management of them. Our customary rights to use resources were founded on customary responsibilities to protect, sustain, and enhance. We agree with the analysis by Mr Brian Gould that the stated reasons for iwi being keen to be buyers in the question of our State-owned assets deserve some attention. His view was that iwi have made it clear that their intention\u2014and here is the punchline\u2014is to buy so that they can hold the assets in trust for future generations of M\u0101ori. In this respect, we have pushed for iwi to have their own share category as tangata whenua, and we know that these negotiations are still in progress. How National responds will be an ongoing marker in the relationship it has with wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi into the future. We oppose this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdb1d965b1f04ffa894e929a8585108c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdb1d965b1f04ffa894e929a8585108c\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E As the last speaker in regard to the State-Owned Enterprises Amendment Bill and the Public Finance (Mixed Ownership Model) Amendment Bill, it gives me great pleasure to be in this House today. This is a debate that has changed over the course of the last hour or so in this House. We have seen the debate develop into one of economic management and economic discipline. We have seen a debate around a plan for the future of how we deal with the situation that New Zealand and the rest of the world face. Clearly you have, on one side of the House, the Opposition, which has an economic model that has been unproven and ineffective. On this side of the House you have an economic plan that is about good, strong, economic management and making the right decisions, even though they may be the hard decisions to make. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWhen we look at this legislation we all realise the issues involved. There is a lot of tension around the House around this issue, and there is a lot of respect for the issues and the arguments that can be made on either side of it. But we have to make the right decision now. These are difficult times, and in difficult times we need leadership. This leadership that you are getting here today is one from the Government where we have identified an issue that has gone to the public over the last year. We have looked into that issue and made a hard decision on how we deliver the best economic management for New Zealand going forward. That leadership has to be to follow that decision through. That is hard, and it is difficult in any organisation and in any country. Yesterday you saw it in the dairying industry, that it had to make a hard decision, even though there was a difference of opinion. Sometimes, in this role of governing this country, we have to make those decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EEnergy assets will always demand public attention, and they will in the future because we have a growing population and we have a growing world economy that will look at food and energy as major resources going forward. The Government has recognised that with the 51 percent strategic shareholding in these assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe have heard many comments in this House about the political history of asset sales or the mixed-ownership model in New Zealand. We have heard parties say that they have been through that and have learnt their lessons. I do not know whether that is necessarily the case. I see those parties over there using that as a convenient byline at this time. They do not go back and buy back BNZ and Telecom, even though they like to use those examples in this House. We need to be realistic about economic conditions in New Zealand and around the world. We as a Government cannot own everything, we as a Government cannot control everything, and we as a Government cannot do everything. This country relies on a partnership between the Government, individuals, enterprise, and industry. This legislation enables us to bring that partnership in one of our most crucial industries going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe often hear about the loss of dividends. Well, that is not the case. The public out there need to understand that there has been a distinction between capital and income dividends, and that you have seen the Opposition using a higher figure to inflate its argument. The returns will still be taxable here, and New Zealanders understand this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe need a Government that will make the right decisions to invest in our country going forward. This is what you are getting from this Government. We are looking at what are the best ways to manage this economy, without raising too much debt and without inflicting an economic management that would kill the growth of the country going forward. If we do not make these decisions now, New Zealanders will not have the choice around how those decisions will be made in the future. We need to make those decisions now, and this legislation makes those decisions, but it also gives flexibility to the Government in how that float process is undertaken. When we look at that float process, the Government has made it clear that it wants New Zealanders to be at the front of that queue. We look forward to that progress, as we go through the rest of this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis is important legislation. It is not about the rhetoric on both sides. It is about doing the right thing for New Zealand in these difficult times. We are doing that. This is leadership. It is tough, but sometimes tough decisions need to be made in the best interests of your country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00227035bb9de1484f7fa91d62b1a4e0b092\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227035bb9de1484f7fa91d62b1a4e0b092\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I have called for order. Members, the Mixed Ownership Model Bill that was reported back to the House was divided into two bills in the Committee stage, so there are two questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224a947b464a824efcad8145a3a7e4bd7b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the State-Owned Enterprises Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 8; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002293b3aff391fb4715b0a05c461b63ce61\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Public Finance (Mixed Ownership Model) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 8; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c40c4aa223f345e79cbd36172488bc64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c40c4aa223f345e79cbd36172488bc64\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would like to draw your attention to Standing Order 141, \u201CPersonal vote following party vote\u201D, where it says: \u201CA personal vote may be held following a party vote if a member requests one and the Speaker considers that the decision on the party vote is so close that a personal vote may make a material difference to the result.\u201D I think this vote is so close, and this is very, very significant legislation before this House. I would request that a personal vote be taken. I would seek the Speaker\u2019s ruling that this become a personal vote on this matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022212c4aa5b6604dc2af04f524d1f39c1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022212c4aa5b6604dc2af04f524d1f39c1f\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The answer is that this is a vote that has been carried by one, which has quite frequently been the case. In no previous case, in my experience in the House, has a majority of a single vote\u2014where there have been clearly cast votes\u2014been any reason for a personal vote to be taken. So the point of order is overruled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271a93a8ed9f74c9fb36ccc0544fc24a9\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd4fabad440b490da377edc2d8cdf4cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd4fabad440b490da377edc2d8cdf4cd\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we are not going to address the same point of order, Mr Williams.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u00224b8bd924e6a64940ad93b653a31f481c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b8bd924e6a64940ad93b653a31f481c\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E No. We cannot be 100 percent sure that all\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00222d47e81ba37a4203be055937dc823683\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d47e81ba37a4203be055937dc823683\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat. I have ruled on this matter. There is no reason for a personal vote. I call on Government order of the day No. 3. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3a9dde6af294b5e92baee09cfe22f5f\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215d4ca099dd442339f5795648f19066d\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I have ruled on this matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a3916e993b142459128871165fb6a5a\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would like to seek that the Speaker be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e1082bb37b241fc93dab23115eb9b17\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am the Speaker, for the purpose of this Parliament. If the member raises one more point of order, he will leave the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226be51da42c8a4875a063e5f80a5e08c8\u0022\u003EPrisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (2012 Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221cf40719aa944c45a88f7f83ed28fa16\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed608f4214d640e2a964c51494b5e83a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed608f4214d640e2a964c51494b5e83a\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave of the Committee for this bill to be debated as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002235d2e78799ae4d448b9534f2f06d7a34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235d2e78799ae4d448b9534f2f06d7a34\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for all provisions of the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (2012 Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill to be taken as one question. Is there any objection to that course of action? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220f02dffeaea94e25b69099b3a3c6d8d3\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2 and clauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1bb3dca74c243b89c34e9cc38510809\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1bb3dca74c243b89c34e9cc38510809\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I think it probably is a sensible decision to take the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (2012 Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill as one question in the Committee. It is a short bill. I want to say just a few words so that those listening and members who have not had the benefit of sitting on the Justice and Electoral Committee do understand the context of the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EBack in 2005 Parliament enacted the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act. This was in response to widespread concerns about the decision of the High Court in a case referred to, and reported as, Taunoa, where an inmate sued the Crown because he had suffered what the court decided was an abuse not only of his physical well-being but of his human rights through the application of what was known at the time as the BMR\u2014the behaviour management, or behaviour modification, regime operated by the Department of Corrections. What happened is that the High Court said on that occasion that the inmate was entitled to a substantial award of damages to, in part, indicate that the behaviour of the prison officers concerned\u2014sanctioned, it seemed, by the department\u2014was not condoned by the court. There was real concern at the time about the position of those who had suffered loss\u2014physical or otherwise\u2014as a result of the misdeeds of offenders who were serving time in prison and had received a windfall payment of compensation through the application of the precedent in Taunoa. As a result of that concern, the 2005 legislation was enacted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe 2005 legislation, as can be seen on its face, was always intended to be temporary in effect. There are two sunset clauses in that Act. Part 1 of the bill before us in Committee today would extend one of the sunset clauses, and Part 2 would extend the other, for a period of 1 year. The reason for this extension was canvassed in the second reading debate. There was, as is known, a change of Minister of Justice between the previous election and now. For whatever reason, the Order Paper was not in sufficient order to see the legislation that was proposed to replace the 2005 Act brought through all of its stages in order to be enacted. When that became obvious the Minister of Justice approached, as I understand it, a number of parties and said, well, what do you want to do with this legislation? Do you want it to expire, in which case there is a real risk of that; do you want it rushed through the House; or is there some other way that we could deal with it\u2014for example, by a short extension of the current provisions of the legislation? My colleagues and I discussed the issue. We could not see that it would be just, as far as the victims of offending were concerned, to simply allow the existing regime to lapse. Although we would have preferred a considered discussion of what ought, if anything, to replace the 2005 legislation, we were in the end agreeable to a short extension of its terms in order to allow that careful consideration of replacement legislation to occur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003ESo that is the simple background to the bill that we are considering, with its two extensions of the relevant sunset clauses for 1 year only, to 1 July 2013. As to what might happen after 1 July 2012, it is my hope that we will get some sensible discussion, both at the Justice and Electoral Committee and also, hopefully, between spokespeople, about what ought to be the replacement model for the 2005 legislation. In respect of that discussion, it seems to me that we need some information to be put on the table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EFirst of all, how much use has been made of the existing legislation? To what extent have the victims of offending found it a useful tool to try to make themselves whole as a result of having suffered loss through the wrongdoing of people who then ended up in jail, have themselves won damages, and then have had some of those damages go to their victims? The figures, I have to say, are a bit disappointing. Although the Minister was not initially willing to disclose them, she made some disclosures in her second reading speech, and further disclosures were made during the estimates process by the Department of Corrections. So we now have a relatively full idea of the extent of the use of the Act and of the contingent liabilities that accrue to the Crown as a result of potential pending claims. Frankly, it is not a particularly compelling picture. That is not to say that this legislation was not the right thing to do at the time, but that is not the question before the Committee and perhaps later, at the third reading stage, the House; the question is what we ought to do now with this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EMy colleague Phil Goff made, I think, a compelling point in the second reading debate, and that is if we are going to rethink this from the perspective of the victims of offending, without violating the human rights record of our country or the rights of those who are serving sentences in our prisons, how best should we do it? Well, first of all, what logic is there in restricting any ongoing legislation simply to those who are sentenced to a custodial sentence? What about community-based sentences? Why should people who have simply managed to avoid jail avoid having to make some sort of payment to their victims in the event that they receive a windfall payment at some point during their sentence? That just does not seem to be logical. Secondly, why should the windfall payments be restricted to payments from the Crown to the offender? What about if the offender somehow gets some enormous payment from a will, or from a Lotto win, or from some other means? Why should the victim of their offending have to go through the ordinary processes of suing in the court, all the expense, all the trauma, all the delays that we know are inherent in civil litigation, in order to try to recover something to recognise what they have been through?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003ESo I think this rethinking needs to happen, and if we are to support something going forward, it needs to be based on principles, it needs to be based on the idea that victims are entitled to recover something if it is possible to make a recovery, and they should be able to do that without having to go through the hoops, as it were, of the legal process. It should not matter, as I say, how that money becomes available. If it is within reach legally, as it were, it ought to be reachable. But the second principle\u2014and the most important counterbalance to that\u2014is, obviously, what we have learnt as a result of observations from human rights bodies and other experts about the operation of this legislation. Can we balance those considerations and what is an important factor for New Zealand, which is our very proud record of preserving and protecting human rights on the international stage, while maintaining a regime in this sort of area that does look after those who suffer from crime, or their families? It is that balancing act that this bill will give us only a year to consider. We have assurances from the Minister that we will be able to perform that exercise adequately. Really, what I want to do\u2014in conclusion in this speech\u2014is give very clear notice that we will be holding her to those undertakings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1ef4248838943909a20edc56c0202ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1ef4248838943909a20edc56c0202ee\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take the opportunity to speak to the Committee stage of the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (2012 Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill. But I guess the first thing we need to say about this bill is that actually it should not be here. The only reason this bill is here is that the Government, over the last 3 years, has ignored the fact that there was an expiry date of 30 June 2012 on the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act, and that, despite having that 3 years\u2019 notice, nothing\u2014or too little\u2014was done. Hence we are in the position today of debating a bill that does one thing, rather simply: it extends the expiry date from 30 June 2012 to 30 June 2013. So I think the point has to be made to the Minister in the chair, the Associate Minister of Justice\u2014and I know that you were not Minister through that period, so I am not holding you personally responsible\u2014that your party did not adequately manage what it was required to do to have a proper response to an Act that you have known for 3 years is going to expire this week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe Act in 2005 was passed for a very specific reason, which was that in the wake of the behaviour management regime that was introduced in 1998 and had been in place for 6 years, the regime was subsequently found to be in breach of rules that we had signed up to internationally. Very clearly, the system was outside international standards under which inmates are properly treated. And I have to say that regardless of the heinous crimes that many of these inmates have committed, we still have a rule, as a civilised society, that we treat people according to the standards that are proper within our prison system. So it is with a sense of irony that I recall Tony Ryall standing up and debating that legislation in 2005 and saying that the whole thing should be thrown out because inmates have no rights. It was, I think, political populism at its worst. I want to acknowledge the Minister in the chair, who has extensive experience in the New Zealand Police force, for taking a far more reasonable and considered view on this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI suppose if there is one irony it is that National has totally reversed its position and now wants to keep an Act that it fought tooth and nail originally, while the Green Party wants to oppose an Act that it originally supported. I do want to comment on that because I think the minority report by the Greens is actually wrong in the premises that it works from. The idea that ensuring that payments made to inmates be available for those inmates to compensate their own victims for the damage done to them would encourage abuse of prisoners is just totally unfounded. There is absolutely nothing that the current legislation has done that in any way condones, allows, or encourages the abuse of prisoners. There is a whole range of ways in which, when the system works wrongly and those wrongs have to be righted, the people who have committed the wrongs within the system can be found accountable, and that is right from the ability to complain to the Ombudsman to writing to your parliamentarians. When something goes wrong in the corrections system, it must be corrected, and if people behave wrongly within the corrections system, and deliberately so, there should be harsh sanctions against them\u2014loss of job, for one thing. So having a system whereby victims get compensation when an inmate is in a position to pay that compensation is not a perverse incentive for abuse within the system. I do not think, despite what the Greens have said in the report, there is any support for that at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI do agree with the international obligations that the Greens\u2019 minority report refers to. Those international obligations are real, and we pride ourselves on keeping within the obligations that we sign up to. The credibility of any country depends on acting upon the things that it agrees to do, puts in a treaty, and signs and ratifies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI want to come back to the opportunity that the Government\u2019s negligence in not actually addressing the problem earlier has created for us. I agree with Charles Chauvel that it really is important that the Minister of Justice does honour the undertaking made that we will properly review what needs to be done. The reason that I originally brought in the Act that is being extended was not so much about disgust that inmates were getting compensation; it was that sense of fundamental wrong that an inmate whose rights were breached could get compensation but that the trail of victims that that inmate himself\u2014usually himself\u2014had created got no benefit of compensation. I said in the second reading that fundamental to justice is that concept of restorative justice, that the way in which you achieve justice is for the person who has committed a wrong against another to be required to right that wrong to the extent that they are able to. That is why restorative justice, I think, is the best form of justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWe have a system of justice in this country\u2014that Chester Borrows knows about\u2014that is essentially adversarial. You know, we almost forget about the victim. When you have a case it is the Crown against Smith. Smith is the offender, and the Crown, representing the State, is the prosecutor, but where is the victim in that mix? The victim is nowhere to be seen in that mix. What we want is a system where the victims are at the centre of it, and where the victims get proper compensation, restitution, reparation\u2014call it what you want. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWe have a system at the moment where if at the time of conviction the accused is unable to give any reparation or restitution to the victim, they never have to pay it. But what about a situation, further down the track, where that inmate, for example, wins Lotto? That is not quite so likely in every case; it is more likely, perhaps, that the inmate receives a bequest\u2014[Interruption] Yes. The inmate, or the person who has been convicted, later comes into the means whereby they can put things right for the victim, but they never have that requirement on them to do that. In the legislation that I passed originally it took a very narrow sector of offenders\u2014those who got compensation because their rights were breached\u2014and said they should do that for their victim. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EBut I think we should use this opportunity to look much wider at the way we can require a person who has committed terrible crimes against his victim to be required to make reparation for that. I see in the papers a guy, in relation to Jane Furlong\u2019s murder, who was a gang enforcer and now, apparently, is a semi-respectable businessman. I probably do not need to mention his name in the House, though it is mentioned in the papers. He is probably doing very well, but what about the victims he left behind him? He is living the good life now; the people whom he made victims of still bear the scars of his offending, and he has never been required to put things right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ESo my challenge to the Minister is to use this year\u2019s extension that we have given to the legislation to show a genuine concern for the needs of restorative justice and to work through a process\u2014and we are happy to work, I think, across all sides of the House on this process\u2014to ask how we can ensure in the maximum number of occasions that the victim can properly receive the restitution or the reparations that are owed to them. That would be far closer to achieving justice for those victims than simply extending this Act, or, as the Minister has foreshadowed in another piece of legislation that has not yet been debated, prisoners\u2019 compensation maybe just going into a general fund for victims. The most powerful form of justice is where the offender directly puts things right for the person whom he has offended against. If we can devise a system\u2014and there are other systems and models around the world that we can look at\u2014we would get a piece of legislation that, I think, would achieve true justice in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022964786ea62aa4121b17789b489f4fe32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022964786ea62aa4121b17789b489f4fe32\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a brief call on this quite brief bill, the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (2012 Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill. In particular, I would just like to address Part 1. It tells us in Part 1 that the purpose of this part is to amend Subpart 1 of Part 2 of the principal Act\u2014in effect, to extend it by 1 year until the end of June in 2013. That is fairly innocuous on the face of it, but effectively it extends for another year a piece of legislation that has not been proven to be particularly effective, and that does create some serious concerns about the nature of the delivery of justice\u2014restorative justice, indeed. I will refer to that point briefly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI think the purpose of this bill could more rightly be stated as actually compensating for the inaction of this Government in this term and, indeed, in the previous term. For whatever reasons, it is interesting to trace the genesis of this bill and how we got to this position we are in. The substantive legislation, of course, was passed in 2005 with an expiry date of June 2010. Clearly, this was known, so there was a 5-year opportunity indeed to think through what was going to either replace this bill or indeed allow it to hit that sunset clause and go out of existence. The National Party\u2019s statement of its policy on victims and crime in 2008 made it clear that it intended to maintain something along the lines of this legislation. Therefore, it was not that the Government had to develop policy, yet it was not until 22 April 2010 that the Government brought into the House a bill to extend the provision to give the first extension to that 2005 legislation. It was tabled on 22 April 2010. A few days later it had the first reading; 1 bare calendar month was allowed for the select committee to consider it. A few days later, under urgency, it was sent through its second reading, its Committee stage, and its final reading to extend it to the date coming before us now\u2014to 30 June 2012. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EOnce again we find ourselves\u2014not in urgency but certainly looking to pass this legislation a matter of days before it is due to expire when the sunset clause kicks in\u2014doing this under extended hours. Tomorrow morning we can expect that this will go through its final stages. One must wonder at the process. The expiry of this legislation was, I believe, always intended to be accompanied by, or to be in parallel with, a substantial conversation, a discussion, about how best to deal with victims, how best to ensure that victims do get some rightful restitution. I am quite sure nobody has any argument with that, and we in the Greens certainly do not. The principle of restorative justice is at the core of our justice policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe know that with this bill the Government has weighted numbers. It has been supported by the Labour Party for reasons that I can understand, up to a point. It is encouraging, open to, and hoping and expecting that we will get a 12-month debate\u2014an intelligent, informed debate about how best to ensure that victims get rightful restitution. I have much less confidence than the Labour Party obviously does that we will get that open debate, simply because we have a bill on the table\u2014the redirection bill\u2014that will make most of the provisions of this current legislation permanent. I simply do not have any confidence that in the context of that bill coming up before us quite soon there will be this open debate about the very nature of the justice system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EClearly, we all want restitution for victims. A key principle of restorative justice is certainly about restitution, but it is also for the victim to see that the offender has internalised the fact that they offended and that the victim was hurt. The genuine remorse from an offender is an important part of the restorative justice process, and nowhere in the extension of this legislation\u2014or indeed in the redirection bill that we will be debating, presumably some time in the next few months\u2014is there really reference to that fundamental part of restorative justice that looks at the whole breadth of the offender once more being made to feel that they are secure, that their rights have been\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022112ccf59adf449809a26987f41b56caa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022112ccf59adf449809a26987f41b56caa\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to take a short call in respect of this Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (2012 Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill. Points have been made across the House that have been very pertinent to the question of the extension, the validity of extending this legislation forward for 12 months, in order to get a solution that has buy-in from other parties and will see us into the future. I also pick up on the points made by Charles Chauvel and the Hon Phil Goff in respect of the need to be able to get some permanent solution in respect of compensation and remediation for the wrongs that are done by offender to victim, and the anomaly that the victim of a person in prison has the ability to get some compensation but the victim of an offender who has a community-based sentence or who has been released from prison who later comes into a degree of wealth does not. I think these are all questions that need to be addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI also take the point that the way that we treat those who are the most despised in our community is also a measure of our civilisation as a society. I do not believe for a moment that we can turn a blind eye to the fact that many of our victims end up in prison because they are also offenders, and vice versa. I believe that it is important that we put victims at the centre of our justice system and at the same time recognise that on occasion those victims are standing in the dock. I think a number of these questions are hard questions, but there will be a way that we can chart through it. I believe it is incumbent on us as a Government to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI do also want to make another point, and that is we have been criticised as a Government for not getting to this legislation over the 3 years prior to the last election. It should be pointed out that this Government passed a large amount of legislation through the Law and Order Committee and the Justice and Electoral Committee, and the vast majority of those pieces of legislation were supported by the Opposition. It cannot be said by any means or in any manner whatsoever that this Government was recalcitrant in its duty to pass legislation. It is not unusual for sunset clauses to be extended when Governments of either colour have not been able to get to that legislation. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u00228a54682626d94167b8fb26d09378e534\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a54682626d94167b8fb26d09378e534\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E This Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (2012 Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill, as we know, simply extends the current regime for a further year while new legislation is developed. I want to emphasise that, because New Zealand First does not expect that the current regime will simply carry on after the delay of another year. What we do expect is that there will be a rigorous examination of the current regime under the current legislation to see whether it does work, whether it is worthwhile, whether, in fact, it is necessary at all, and whether it has achieved, or is capable of achieving, its current objectives. We do not know whether or not that is the case yet, but for the time being New Zealand First is happy to accept the bill as it is, to extend the date for a further year, and to support the bill on that basis, and also on the basis that there will be genuine consultation and a willingness to listen by all parties in the House so that we can, in fact, get some legislation for the future that is really worth having.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI am not saying that necessarily the current legislation is a failure\u2014I do not know whether or not that is the case yet\u2014nor am I saying that it is needed. It is yet to be seen whether that is the case. But I do know that there are some underlying principles that I think we should always observe in considering the new legislation to be developed. First of all, we must make sure that the penalty a person who is imprisoned gets is just the loss of liberty. That is the penalty they have been sentenced to, and nothing else. I do not believe that it should get in the way of opportunities for rehabilitation, education, and reorientation of their direction in life. I do not believe that it should result in the loss of other rights, such as the right to vote and the right to protection from personal or mental abuse while in prison, or result in the loss of services like decent medical care, and it does not mean, either, the loss of a right to accident compensation for genuine\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c43d7b0c03f143238d505681cdc52b25\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member must refer in the Committee stage only to what is in this bill. He cannot expand it out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022857a3d9eb5ce4b8d92a2b992a9e41b34\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE\u003C/span\u003E: What I am saying is simply this. We have a year within which to develop new legislation, and this is the basis upon which New Zealand First says that this new legislation should be developed. Central to this are rights; whether prisoners should be able to have the same rights to compensation\u2014accident compensation or compensation for mistreatment\u2014while in prison. That is central to this bill, so I do not see why that should not be discussed right now. And it does not mean, of course, the loss of other rights as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EOn the other hand, there is no doubt that there needs to be a balance of the preservation of all of those rights with the fact that some prisoners do attempt to abuse those rights, and we have seen some of that happen in recent years. We certainly should not mollycoddle prisoners, and we should make sure that there are no rorts attached to their exercise of the rights that they have, especially those that I have mentioned\u2014for compensation. There does, we believe, need to be the development of some special rules around what sort of compensation and what circumstances prisoners can claim compensation for, whether it be for an accident or whether it be for mistreatment while in prison. Those are the sorts of rules that we expect to see developed as part of the coming legislation. That balance needs to be there to meet community expectations and to make sure that rights are not abused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EFinally, I do want to make some comment on the point that other speakers have made concerning victims of crime in relation to restorative justice. We should consider, as part of the rules I have spoken of, whether any compensation paid to a prisoner, however it may arise, should be capable of transfer to their victims, and, therefore, the need for restorative justice in that way. There are two choices there. Either that should be the case only for the victims of a particular prisoner\u2019s actions, or the compensation should be available to all victims of crime in a pool or fund held for that purpose. I believe that it is only appropriate for us\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022885d0f1abcdc4a0297481ee65a6208bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022885d0f1abcdc4a0297481ee65a6208bf\u0022\u003EJULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. I rise to take just a brief call on the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 (2012 Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill during the Committee stage. As we have heard, clause 5 seeks to amend the principal Act, the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005\u2014specifically, sections 16 and 17\u2014by replacing the words \u201C30 June 2012\u201D with \u201C30 June 2013\u201D, and \u201C1 July 2012\u201D with \u201C1 July 2013\u201D, so effectively extending a sunset clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI think it is at this point that I would like to respond to comments raised by the Hon Phil Goff. He was surprised that the Green Party was opposing this bill. I thought I would just remind him that, actually, when the Green Party agreed to support the principal Act at the third reading, it was uniquely because it was the lesser of two evils and it included a sunset clause. So it is not surprising that we would oppose this bill, which is effectively extending that sunset clause. I believe that at the time it was because the Labour Government at the time did not have the numbers to pass this legislation unless it was going to be with the support of United Future, which wanted to amend it in ways that we found very, very troubling indeed because they would further threaten the rights of people in prison who had had their human rights breached.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI do not quite follow the logic here that when there are two completely separate breaches of rights, you would take the compensation for one and use it to rectify the other. When we have had a breach of rights that a prisoner is serving a sentence for, his or her loss of liberty is a result of the breach of rights that resulted in whatever harm the victim has suffered. But the separate breach of rights\u2014which, in the case of Taunoa and the behaviour management regime, was quite a gross breach of rights on the part of the Crown, unfortunately\u2014is a separate breach of rights. So it is unclear why the compensation that the prisoner would be seeking for that breach of rights should be used then for the victim of the first breach of rights. In other words, two wrongs do not make a right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo, just to connect the dots on the relationship between prisoners not having an effective remedy and potential perverse incentives that could lead to increases in breaches of human rights in prisons, if prisoners no longer have an incentive to seek compensation when there is a gross breach of rights, they are less likely to seek compensation, they are less likely to take a case, and therefore the Crown is perhaps less liable for breaches of rights and more likely to be sloppy in its administration of justice, because there will not be the incentive for it to look after the human rights of prisoners. And that is really fundamentally very, very important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThis bill is still part of this race to be tough on crime and support victims, but it is unclear that this bill is going to do more than perpetuate a system that, at best, is ineffective, and, at worst, creates perverse incentives for the mistreatment of prisoners. The Government\u2019s plans, including extending this deadline, do not substantially create a better environment for victims of crime, but do come at a heavy price to prisoners\u2019 ability to realise an effective remedy for their own victimisation after they have started serving a sentence, which was what the State decided was the price they would pay for the crimes that they committed against their victims. And victims do have the ability to seek remedy through taking a lawsuit if they believe they need additional financial compensation, or, in some cases, they are able to have their needs met by ACC. That is a decision we have made as a society as to how we are best able to achieve justice. So for these reasons we disagree with the amendments to sections 16 and 17 of the principal Act. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u00222a199da70d454f7e8e9ff96998755144\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a199da70d454f7e8e9ff96998755144\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a very brief call on the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (2012 Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill. It has been very interesting listening to the debate, because this bill is new to me. It has been very interesting listening to the Hon Phil Goff and Charles Chauvel explain the history of this bill and the background to it, and also set out Labour\u2019s position on this whole issue of compensation, but also victims\u2019 rights, very clearly, and, I think, very succinctly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe bill is about extending the restrictions on the award of compensation under the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005, because they are due to expire on 1 July, so it extends the deadline for one more year. It is a temporary measure and I do want to put on the record my unease about the pace that this has gone through the process. I understand the bill had its first reading on 2 May. It was a very short time frame for submissions. There were five submissions, four of which were opposed to the bill for human rights concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI also understand that since the enactment of that legislation in 2005 there have been a low number of cases such as the one that triggered the original legislation. Labour believes that an inquiry into the legislation\u2014and I am pleased to hear the Minister\u2019s assurances about what will take place in the next year, and to see whether it could be repealed or could be replaced with an alternative\u2014is a good course of action. I hope that there will be a genuine look at the options around this bill. The Labour Party has made it clear that it supported the extension of the sunset clause only to ensure that if replacement legislation is required, it can be developed. We do not think the need for replacement legislation has been made clear, and a review of the claims under this legislation is required to ensure that the correct balance between compensation for breaches by the Crown, and the need to remedy the victims is struck. So with those few words I am pleased to support this bill in its Committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022 data-id=\u00225410221a23dd48e186f006e5bf561ccc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225410221a23dd48e186f006e5bf561ccc\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak on the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (2012 Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill on behalf of New Zealand First. It was Baroness Thatcher who once said that if you set out just to be liked, you would be prepared to compromise on anything at any time, and you would achieve nothing\u2014absolutely nothing. One thing I know for sure is that New Zealand First is never going to be soft on crime. It is impossible to compromise in relation to serious crimes, for the sake of being well liked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EThe intention behind this bill is to amend the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005. I think I am more than qualified to talk about the experience that staff have to go through, being someone who used to work at the Department of Corrections. The main purpose of the bill is to extend the boundaries around the awarding of compensation. According to the Minister of Justice\u2019s own words in the first reading, it ensures that \u201Cawards of financial compensation are made to prisoners only in extraordinary circumstances where no other remedy is deemed appropriate.\u201D The bill also seeks to ensure that the victims\u2019 claims process applies to any compensation awarded, or to be paid pursuant to an out-of-court final settlement, in respect of a prisoner\u2019s claim made on or after 1 July 2012 but before 1 July 2013. This is all very well. However, there is a balancing argument between prisoners as victims and as people who should be punished. Yes, I acknowledge there is a need for practical rules to ensure that abuse of rights by prisoners is not possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EThere is also a very strong criticism to be made about National wasting Parliament\u2019s time with bills that could have been avoided with better prioritisation and fewer unnecessary bills on education and social welfare that the Government has introduced and we have spent so much time on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EI would like to reiterate the view presented by my colleague Denis O\u2019Rourke in the second reading. New Zealand First has no objection to the passage of this bill and supports it proceeding. The restrictions on the awarding of compensation simply defer the expiry date to 30 June 2013 while we await the substantive legislation, namely the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Redirecting Prisoner Compensation) Amendment Bill, which is yet to have its first reading\u2014a bill that seeks to make the existing victims\u2019 claims process permanent, and to redirect any prisoners\u2019 compensation remaining after that process to fund services and programmes for victims of crime. I cannot help wondering why there has been a delay by the Government of this review. Of course, New Zealand First is reserving its position on the substantive bill, and will consider the Government\u2019s position when the bill is read.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EPrison sentences should be orientated towards rehabilitation to avoid reoffending. The issue is not who needs to be tougher on crime. We can no longer afford to argue with one another and participate in an ongoing law and order auction\u2014no, no, no. Our aim should be to reduce crime. There is no point throwing someone into prison and throwing away the key when there are no active steps in place to ensure a reduction in recidivism, especially when the prisoners are released back into our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EThere is also a need to restrict unnecessary claims by prisoners. Prisoners cannot and should not make claims to certain things that do not need claiming. However, on the other hand, prisoners are victims too. Prisoners should have their basic rights upheld\u2014the rights to medical treatment and mental health care\u2014knowing that they have already been deprived of their right to liberty and freedom. Recent studies that focus on punishment have told us that punishing prisoners by imprisonment does not achieve our overall goal of reducing crime rates in New Zealand. The National Government does not want to be seen as soft on prisoners, either. But what about standing up and making sure that whatever steps this Government takes, they should be steps to the goal of reducing crime rates and making New Zealand a safer place to live?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EFurthermore, if the Government had dealt with its proposed bill earlier, we might very well have been debating that bill today rather than this bill, which simply extends the expiry date. The National Government should be getting its priorities right. Stop wasting our time. This bill could well have been avoided if we had not wasted time on other, unnecessary paper-shuffling schemes from the social welfare Minister, and debates about the education Minister\u2019s misinformed ideas on class sizes. Efficiency is key for a working Government to operate well. On that note, we support the extension of expiry dates as required in this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222fb2cc9929654afd8ae6f48f67b87b55\u0022\u003EExtended Sittings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bcc7ddf6fc724122872c0392ba505501\u0022\u003EExtended Sittings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229db65619b1564bafb051676a9d4f539b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229db65619b1564bafb051676a9d4f539b\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the sitting of the House today be extended to consider the interrupted second reading of the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill, the debate on the performance and current operations of Crown entities, public organisations, and State enterprise, and the passing of the Appropriation (2011/12 Supplementary Estimates) Bill and an Imprest Supply Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab3a17dcf82948c49588ed0aaec3fdba\u0022\u003EDairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c0d7877e69264b43a76df6195415858e\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000489\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 21 June.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u002276d7106319b74e72b13ef16d8008309d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276d7106319b74e72b13ef16d8008309d\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E When the House adjourned, I was explaining that Mr Ian McKelvie\u2019s criticism of my colleague Steffan Browning was misplaced. Mr Browning was explaining why the Green Party opposed the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill. It was not an attack on Fonterra. As our largest company, Fonterra is important to our economy. We want it to flourish, and we want it to be in the dairy business long term. What we have criticised is Fonterra\u2019s current business strategy and the relentless increase in cow numbers and milk supply, because that fails to recognise that there are environmental limits to growth given dairying\u2019s serious impact on our waterways and on our climate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe result of yesterday\u2019s vote on Trading Among Farmers was not an overwhelming mandate. The fact that one in three shareholders rejected Trading Among Farmers highlights the depth of concern about what this bill proposes. That is because for Fonterra the cooperative structure has been a huge part of its financial success. When the three main players in the industry\u2014the New Zealand Dairy Group, Kiwi Cooperative Dairies, and the New Zealand Dairy Board\u2014were merged in 2001 to create Fonterra, there was a deliberate decision to establish it as a cooperative. That was seen as the best way of protecting farmer interests, because in a cooperative you have effectively got an alignment between the interests of the supplying farmers, the processing and the marketing arms of the company, and the fiduciary duties of the directors, so that the cooperative members receive the best possible price for the milk they, their cows, and nature produce. That has certainly been reflected in the higher dairy payouts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EProviding for Trading Among Farmers cuts across this. It creates a significant risk for the future of New Zealand\u2019s dairy farmers and for Fonterra, because when a dairy farmer sells her units into the Trading Among Farmers fund she is selling her rights to the dividend, and also the equity in the cooperative. While the farmer will certainly retain the mutual supply and collection contract with the company, and voting rights, he or she is giving up the stake that those shares represent in the financial ownership of the milk tankers, the milk processing plant, and other cooperative plant. That is where the risk lies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt risks introducing a tension between what the Hon Shane Jones has called the producer capital and the investor capital\u2014those external investors who own the dividends from these unit shares\u2014and, as the independent adviser to the Primary Production Committee, James Morrison, noted in his report, those tensions will inevitably arise between the farmer suppliers to Fonterra, the external investors, and the fiduciary duties of the board of Fonterra to those investors. So there is potentially going to be ongoing conflict between investors and the supplying farmers over the company\u2019s strategy and the company\u2019s operational decisions, and there is a risk that over several decades the ownership of Fonterra and its key strategic decisions become increasingly separate from dairy farming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe stated purpose of these Trading Among Farmers shares is to provide a capital base to use as a buffer against redemption risk, but submitters who oppose it said that that redemption risk had been overstated; it had been sold to farmers on the basis of one extreme year when we had the San Lu scandal, drought, and the global financial crisis. So those submitters and those who voted yesterday against Trading Among Farmers framed it as a choice between keeping Fonterra New Zealand - owned or making it a target for large-scale investors who would be more interested in the dividend returns from their shares. That is the risk\u2014that this is the top of a slippery slope, which will lead to more corporate investment and overseas investment, which would weaken the voice and potentially overwhelm the farmer milk producers. That is why the Green Party opposes this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c72f523bbc30460ca5e7d7261db83e7f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 8; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022246c2cdc6a594bf7a03fc5550f7b16c9\u0022\u003EDebate on Crown Entities, Public Organisations, and State Enterprises\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ceba9c7a368c4b2fa9ab67da5931dd0e\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022903c98f74f224d21a62096e0c1a318d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022903c98f74f224d21a62096e0c1a318d7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The House is in Committee for consideration of the performance in 2010-11 and current operation of Crown entities, public organisations, and State enterprises. I remind members that this is a 3-hour debate. The debates on the individual financial reviews should be relevant to their performance in the 2010-11 financial year and their current operations. I understand members have indicated organisations they wish to debate. The first entity that I understand members wish to debate is the New Zealand Tourism Board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002297689ea9a81f4eaf9427032e88613261\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Tourism Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u00220da0be0191fe459cb3d48796adfb5467\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220da0be0191fe459cb3d48796adfb5467\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to speak on the Tourism Board. Obviously, this is an enormously important industry for New Zealand. In fact, as a result of that, what we understand is that the Prime Minister, as the Minister of Tourism, is head of tourism in New Zealand. I am not allowed to refer, obviously, to the\u2014[Interruption] Obviously, for New Zealand tourism is massively important: $63 million a day. That is the revenue of this industry. It is on a par with the dairy industry. One in ten New Zealanders is employed in tourism throughout New Zealand. Therefore, it is very important that we take this industry very, very seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThis is what John Key, the Minister of Tourism, said just 4 years ago: \u201CWhile times are getting tough right now, the future for tourism is bright. You are a vital part of the economic engine that drives New Zealand and you will be celebrated and encouraged by my Government.\u201D This is what the State of the Tourism Sector 2012 said in its report: \u201CNew Zealand is perceived to have fallen off the global radar as a desirable destination ...\u201D. It is predicting a downturn. So although Mr Key 4 years ago had lots of aspirations for this industry, 4 years later those aspirations are not being realised. I think what happened here is that Mr Key realised that this was a particularly good sector for a \u201Csmile and wave\u201D approach, but not really a sector where you actually have to roll up your sleeves, get on to it, and actually give this industry a real boost. So although it was said to be important 4 years ago, today it has actually fallen off the radar. We have some real concerns and some grave concerns about where this industry is heading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EHowever, Mr Key did come up with a partial solution\u2014a little bit like a partial asset float\u2014to where this industry might get a boost from, and that is from a convention centre in Auckland. The good news is that he has found an ingenious way of funding this particular convention centre. You give a wink and a nod to one of the applicants for this convention centre process. You slightly just push the tender process to one side, you go out to dinner with Skycity, and you say: \u201CLook, if you\u2019re willing to put up some money for this, we\u2019ll guarantee you 20 years of a gambling licence and 500 pokie machines, and you will be able to build this convention centre.\u201D What a great offer. That is a great offer. It is a slightly sleazy offer. It is a bit of a shonky offer, but what a great offer. For Skycity it is a great offer, because it gets $42 million a year from those 500 pokie machines, and it gets a 20-year extension to its gambling licence. In the space of 6 to 7 years it will pay for the convention centre, and it will still have 13 years\u2014times $42 million per year\u2014to go on that extension to its gambling licence. That is a pretty good deal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259dd7d8af9b14e69a2ea45a80e6dbf20\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Plus interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022102609d6cfad46a3bf1fb324d243f401\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: Plus interest on that. So there is the big plan for New Zealand tourism. Smile and wave on the one hand, and on the other hand give Skycity the ability to raise $42 million a year with pokie machines from the pockets of people who can least afford them. And do not worry about those other industries and those other sectors that vied for the opportunity to do this. Do not worry about that! No, no, no, we just go out to dinner, have a wink and a nudge, and you will get the deal. I guess that is why the Auditor-General decided to have a bit of a look at this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d830baf4a8134c77b6ef406733a7c180\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Is that what they got out of you at the sky box for the Rugby World Cup?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a424391cc9a474da910f832aac9243e\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I tell you that is exactly why Skycity is looking with a smiling face at what is going on, and it is why the Auditor-General is taking a good look at it. Mr Brownlee might well ask that. What did it get out of that? It got nothing out of it, Mr Brownlee. It got absolutely no return on that particular investment. This party stands up for good process\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2793a543753425e8799320abf80b07b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2793a543753425e8799320abf80b07b\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I understand that it has been custom in this Committee that the Minister responsible for the vote in question comes to the Chamber and takes the chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258042a9cc541410f9de5e31731dfd578\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5949df102be4a00bd2daa754c7ed275\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: And we advised the Government beforehand of the votes we wished to debate on that basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00229b233f1845e647abae6feaf32deb6f2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b233f1845e647abae6feaf32deb6f2b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I have heard your point. No, any Minister can sit in the chair. If the Minister whose portfolio it is is in the Chamber, they must take the chair, but any Minister can assume the chair. I am calling Barbara Stewart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ec192673a0f4101b8a2981a0c4b5e18\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Big chicken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228d2cf029c9243fb8798c443f350d438\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Who said that? You cannot say that. The member will withdraw and apologise for that comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271eff8ffc3874cc58fcb862623d1d344\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0d7fe36f86e4b2c92f2aeb6f8f2a867\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0d7fe36f86e4b2c92f2aeb6f8f2a867\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on behalf of New Zealand First to the financial review of the New Zealand Tourism Board. We all know that tourism is one of the largest industries in New Zealand. It accounts for almost 9 percent of our GDP and employs the equivalent of almost 180,000 full-time positions for New Zealanders. As we heard previously, the revenue is $63 million per day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EHowever, despite New Zealand priding itself on the basis of being a wonderful tourist destination, we are actually slipping behind, and it was mentioned in the weekend papers. The New Zealand Herald headline was \u201CNZ\u2019s tourism cash cow is going dry, says report\u201D. So something definitely needs to happen. We know that tourists are not coming here as frequently as they previously did. The figures between April and May show a 1 percent decrease in the number of tourists who are actually visiting New Zealand\u2014not good. The numbers of tourists from Australia, Britain, Germany, and the US have all fallen in the last year. All of these tourists who always saw New Zealand as a wonderful destination are now suddenly not so sure. We are not seen now as a must-see destination, which is where we actually should be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe cannot use the global financial crisis as a scapegoat for this industry\u2019s poor performance. In reality, the problem is far more complex. Australia, Britain, Germany, and the US\u2014they are all doing well to get through this financial crisis. We know that Germany is the powerhouse of Europe. The Australian economy is growing at one of the fastest rates in the Western World. Tourism in New Zealand is actually lagging due to a lack of advocacy. With the Prime Minister holding the tourism portfolio, who would have thought that this would be the case? It comes down to a lack of advocacy, and it is basically costing New Zealand employers and employees alike. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ERemember last year, when the UK decided to increase its departure tax to New Zealand? The tourism Minister, John Key, took great offence at that. He said he would be having stern words with his mate Prime Minister David Cameron over in the UK. What came of these discussions? We know that departure taxes in the UK are still extremely high. The Minister of Tourism has basically failed to get these down to a level that is in our favour. He has failed to make good his word to actually do that. It is little wonder that the number of tourists from the UK is down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EAnd it is the same again with Australia. Every day in the media we hear about the huge economic boom over the Ditch. We see our young people queuing in the departure lounges, eager to find their brighter futures over the Ditch, and unfortunately my young son is one of them. Yet despite the promising job opportunities in Australia, tourist numbers from that thriving country are also down. Just over a month ago, the Australian Government decided to put up the departure taxes to New Zealand by 17 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245e4d32a82ff472c946b72bf5bd72c5b\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s shocking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bad5b7135cd1406da9cc9181ab171f6b\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART\u003C/span\u003E: It is shocking. The tourism industry had been lobbying John Key and this Government to intervene. It knows that these extra taxes are going to hurt its industry. It knows that these extra taxes are going to hurt both employers and employees, but nothing has happened\u2014absolutely nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EAnd, of course, the other reason that tourists are being put off is the high New Zealand dollar overseas. New Zealand First has been calling on the Government to extend\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022984b589f79634d18a27aafaea8070382\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. The time has come for the dinner break. This debate is interrupted. I shall resume the Chair at 7.30.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4661367decb4539880c1c6b8946c188\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART\u003C/span\u003E: What we are saying here in New Zealand First is that the other reason that is putting off our overseas tourists is the high New Zealand dollar. We have been calling on the Government to extend the powers of the Reserve Bank in order to better control our overvalued currency. The IMF estimates that the currency is between 10 and 20 percent overvalued, and every day that it remains overvalued it actually puts unnecessary pressure upon our tourism industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIf we are going to take a stand and restore New Zealand to its top position as a really top tourist destination, we need strong leadership in this area, we need decent advocacy on the international stage by the Minister of Tourism, and we need sound policies that will actually ensure that our tourists return. We cannot afford to fall off the global radar as a desirable destination, and headlines in the \u201CBusiness Day\u201D section like \u201CNZ tourism industry suffers\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00223a141618a45f4e5a9047e23708610588\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a141618a45f4e5a9047e23708610588\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We are looking at the New Zealand Tourism Board\u2019s performance and the report of the Commerce Committee on that. It is quite clear when we look back to the heady days after the 2008 election, when the Prime Minister became the Minister of Tourism. He talked of a bold plan for tourism in New Zealand and a clear vision for tourism, and said that we should make the most of our advantages and seize the opportunities they provide. Yet what we see from the State of the Tourism Sector 2012 report and from the Tourism Board\u2019s own statement of intent is an industry that is stagnating. It is an industry that is simply no longer providing the boost to New Zealand\u2019s economy that it once did. But this was, of course, the very reason the Prime Minister told us he wanted to take the portfolio on\u2014that he would be this great leader to drive the tourism industry forward. Instead, all we got were cheesy jokes on The Late Show with David Letterman and a bad video in the back of a car in Napier. That was about the extent of the vision\u2014the bold plan\u2014that the tourism Minister, John Key, was going to bring forward to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThen we got a new plan for tourism for New Zealand in this last financial year, which is currently ongoing\u2014the building of a convention centre in Auckland. This was the great blueprint, the great vision, that would provide New Zealand\u2019s tourism boost. There are probably some good arguments for a convention centre in the Auckland area, but a convention centre built on what basis? The Prime Minister responded with a top 10 list, as he did on the Letterman show. So in terms of tourism and its future for New Zealand, I think we could make a top 10 list of reasons why the Skycity pokie deal for the convention centre is, in fact, not the way forward for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EReason No. 1 on our top 10 list is that the Problem Gambling Foundation says that Skycity\u2019s \u201Chost responsibility is poor and fuels problem gambling\u201D. The casino had 54 incidents of deserted children last year, 25 cases of fraud, and 14 assaults. So there is reason No. 1 on our top 10 list. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe can go on. Goldman Sachs has estimated that Skycity will earn an extra $28 million a year on the additional pokie machines that are part of the deal, rising to $42 million a year once the convention centre is running. That is the pay-off here. The legislation gets sold off. That is reason No. 2 for us to not like this deal for supposed tourism. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAnother one is the question of how many jobs will be created. The Prime Minister was very keen to tell us that there would be 1,000 jobs in the tourism industry\u20141,000 jobs. He overstated by more than half. That is reason No. 3. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI will go back to the gambling side of things. Casinos return only 2.5 percent of their profits to the community\u20142.5 percent. So for extra machines going in\u2014supposedly to bolster the tourism industry\u2014the pay-off is more pokie machines, and the pay-off of that is money out of the pockets of people who cannot afford it, with only 2.5 percent going back to the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe can go on. Reason No. 5 is that, based on Goldman Sachs\u2019 estimates, there could be a loss of revenue for community organisations from anywhere from $10 million a year upwards. That is the outcome of selling off legislation that is supposedly to benefit tourism in New Zealand but is actually to benefit Skycity. We can go on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EReason No. 6 for this not being a good idea is the dodgy way this deal was done, and the fact that the Minister of Tourism intervened in a process that was part-way through and said: \u201CForget all the other bidders. I\u2019ve done the deal over dinner.\u201D So there is reason No. 6 for us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EReason No. 7 is that the other bids that were on the table from people like Lloyd Morrison\u2014rest his soul\u2014were bids that did not require the selling off of legislation for New Zealand. That is another reason. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EReason No. 8 around this is that Mr John Key, the Minister of Tourism, has told New Zealanders that it is OK to sell off legislation, and that that should be part of the deal of being in Government. It is just plain wrong to have that kind of approach to funding tourism in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis Government knows that this convention deal is a dodgy one. It is one where the Minister of Tourism, the Prime Minister, John Key, has intervened in a process and allowed a non-complying bid to go forward. We now see the situation where we have a dodgy deal that will not do what it says it will do for jobs, and will not do as it says it will do for tourism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022023dff51c6444209982a90f1ee879b59\u0022\u003EReserve Bank of New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac11a1ce845946e99ad03f6e1320fcb1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac11a1ce845946e99ad03f6e1320fcb1\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to rise to speak on the Reserve Bank of New Zealand financial review, undertaken by the Finance and Expenditure Committee, the extremely hard-working and diligent committee that it is. I want to make a couple of general comments around the work of the Reserve Bank, particularly the focus the Government has had over the last 3\u00BD years, but particularly what has happened since the election and, in particular, also, I would also like to make mention of the current Governor of the Reserve Bank and the announcement made by the Minister of Finance today about the future appointment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWhat has happened since the election, and what work has the Reserve Bank been focusing on? Well, the Government is getting its books back into order and setting a path back toward surplus. This is extremely important for the Government. We campaigned on this. But, more so than that, it is important for everyday New Zealanders. You see, not so long ago the Governor of the Reserve Bank made an announcement that he would be keeping the interest rates in New Zealand at a steady rate\u2014one of the lowest we have seen in many, many years. This is great news for New Zealanders, as we look around the world at the many challenges that countries are facing with their economies, and with Governments that are not as single-mindedly focused as this Government is on doing the right thing for New Zealanders and the economy, while there is great havoc being wreaked all over the place. We see it every day in Greece and other parts of Europe and so on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EBut the good news about where our interests rates sit at the moment is that mum and dad New Zealanders are paying much less for the money they have borrowed to invest in property and other things than they were 3\u00BD to 4 years ago. I remember at the time returning to New Zealand, having spent some time overseas, as many Kiwis do, and deciding to come back here and stand up and do my part on behalf of other New Zealanders because I was so very concerned at the direction New Zealand was heading in after 9 years of a Labour Government. The first thing I did with my wife and my family was to go and look to purchase a property. We went to the bank to find out what the interest rate would be, and it was over 9 percent\u2014over 9 percent. The member opposite has said \u201CWhat about jobs?\u201D. Well, when hard-working Kiwis have to pay mortgages, and their interest rates are over 9 percent, actually it is no wonder it is so difficult for them and they find it so tough to get by. Today, the interest rates are set around 5 percent if you want to go and borrow, and what a great difference that makes. So, very much, reducing debt, focusing on Government spending, and making sure that the money that the Government spends on behalf of taxpayers is spent productively and for the very best return for those taxpayers is something that the Government is focused on\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E Of course we know that the Government books are set to move back towards surplus in 2014-15. This is going to be a very difficult job for us to deliver on. The reason for that is that there are all sorts of uncertainties in other parts of the world, which, of course, will have an impact upon us as a trading nation. But the most important thing we can do here is to continue the work that we have done over the last 3 years, so that New Zealanders, so that businesses, so that the Governor of the Reserve Bank, and so that our country can have confidence that the Government is on the right track, is moving forward, and is taking sound financial management practices extremely seriously in the economy, and so that they, too, can have confidence in the direction that we are moving in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWe had an announcement last week around some of these statistics, and it took many by surprise\u2014increased growth rates. The quarter\u2019s increase of the gross domestic product was 1.1 percent. It took the annual growth to 2.4 percent compared with March 2011. It is very difficult for the world\u2019s economy at the moment. In fact, I think we are probably second, maybe third, in the world when it comes to growth, at the moment. Although that is modest growth, it is better than what was forecast, and, again, I think this shows that New Zealand is slowly but surely moving towards a stronger footing. I would say that I think that this could be patchy as we move forward, because these things do go up and down a little bit. But, certainly, this is to be welcomed, it is welcome news, and I encourage other members of the House to get out and encourage New Zealanders to get on with their lives, to do their jobs, to run their businesses, and together we can slowly move forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESo what I want to say here is that I want to recognise the Reserve Bank governor, Alan Bollard, for doing a fantastic job for a number of years. He can be very proud of some of the decisions he has taken, and the way that we have been able to work as a Government in line with him. He has a done a very good job in these areas\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228d74782d101145e6b90f4cfc8c6eb503\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Transport Agency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00220996d156d12e4ddf84a047d06fbc734c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220996d156d12e4ddf84a047d06fbc734c\u0022\u003EJULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to take this very quick call to discuss the financial performance of the New Zealand Transport Agency. This is an agency that was a client of mine for many years, when I was a transport consultant. I had the privilege of working on a number of research projects for the New Zealand Transport Agency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI am happy to say that there are some very hard-working and talented people working there, but I would really like to raise a number of concerns. There is a problem with a lack of transparency about what the New Zealand Transport Agency is doing. As I understand it, it is probably mostly around the massive, expensive motorway projects that the Government is prioritising\u2014the so-called roads of national significance. When we try to find out information about these projects, the Transport Agency is very unwilling to share information, like, for example, the updated costs and benefits for them. I asked the Minister of Transport some written questions recently, and, unfortunately, he was not able to return them on time. And even when he did return them, we saw that there were increased costs, for example, for the Wellington Northern Corridor road of national significance. That was initially estimated to be $2.1 billion to $2.4 billion, and is now revised to $2.4 billion to $2.7 billion. There has been no update to the benefit-cost ratio. As far as I can tell, there has been no update to the benefits so, necessarily, that project would have an even worse benefit-cost ratio than what it had before, which was only over 1 because of some very creative accounting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI have heard from inside the organisation that there is a very machiavellian approach to project management and to public relations. They have a very proactive approach of identifying the stakeholders who are asking for information and then deciding to give information to certain stakeholders based on whether they think there is any sort of risk that there would be a media story. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI think that it is clear from the Cabinet papers that the agency is facing a very tight funding situation. We have asked the agency about this in the financial review, and it sort of wanted to sweep it under the rug, saying: \u201COh no, there\u2019s no problem here, there\u2019s no problem with funding.\u201D But actually there is significantly less money coming in, and that is totally understandable. We foresaw this in 2008, when we did the research report Managing transport challenges when oil prices rise. We said what was going to happen was that as oil prices rise, households, which do not have any opportunity to switch to other modes, because we had not sufficiently invested in them, would have to spend more money on transport. In the first instance, they would cut some of their discretionary trips, and, in the second instance, they would have less money to spend on goods in New Zealand, in the economy. What happens after that is that 6 months later we see this beautiful lag, and suddenly there is a reduction in demand for heavy vehicles, because the freight industry takes a hit when households have to spend more money on petrol, so then there is less demand for freight. What happens is that there is reduced demand for vehicle trips on the State highway, there is less money coming in through road-user charges and petrol taxes, and, therefore, there is less money to spend. But, unfortunately, the Government is still going ahead with these road projects of supposedly national significance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWhat we have been trying to find out from both the New Zealand Transport Agency and the Government is where the evidence is that these projects will have the desired positive impact on the economy. We are not ideologically opposed to roads or vehicle-based transport, but we are asking why we should spend 75 percent of the money for new infrastructure on six very expensive projects when there might be more cost-effective ways to reduce travel times and to meet the needs for travel that the New Zealand Transport Agency is tasked with. We have heard in the House from the Minister of Finance, the Hon Bill English, that, in fact, there is no evidence, that these are actually political projects. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIt is a very big problem because I think that New Zealanders expect to be able to get information to be able to participate in the assessment of these projects. And we cannot have proper scrutiny in the public sphere, or in Parliament, if the New Zealand Transport Agency is operating behind this cloak of secrecy and trying not to tell us any information because it does not support the narrative that the Government wants to tell, which is that it is investing in productive infrastructure. We just want to help out, really. The Green Party is interested in making intelligent choices in terms of how we invest in transport infrastructure, and to do that we really need to understand why these projects are being prioritised as opposed to other projects. Also, when we try to question the New Zealand Transport Agency on its\u2014[Bell rung] I will wrap this up right this second\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00227c59dad7ea7a4e60ba30059b20f7d96e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c59dad7ea7a4e60ba30059b20f7d96e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: You have wrapped up. Your time has expired\u2014your time has expired. Please sit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ad12a26d794b48e69a218f8f01a5b646\u0022\u003EEarthquake Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u002297db5296876342bcb3a50e0c13ade9d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297db5296876342bcb3a50e0c13ade9d8\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E For the first time in a very long period of time, the performance of the Earthquake Commission has been tested with the various Christchurch earthquakes. Of course, Kiwis have been paying their earthquake levies for all of that very long time and, obviously, have a right to expect excellent performance by the commission. I am afraid to say that many people in Christchurch, and I mean especially those who are actually affected by the earthquake, are not, in fact, satisfied with the performance of the commission, and I am one of them. Firstly, this is because, I think, one of the problems is the definition of the liability for which the Earthquake Commission is liable. Secondly, I think it is because of an initial lack of experience with earthquakes and how to deal with them, although that has improved since. Thirdly, it is because of the way the commission has addressed these claims, and, fourthly, because of the concern over some of the commission\u2019s internal practices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EOn the first of those issues, the scope of liability, the Earthquake Commission did attend to claims for contents within the first year quite adequately, I feel. So the question really is: should the Earthquake Commission actually have to deal with claims for contents, or should it be liable only for property? I think that is something that needs to be addressed in the relatively near future, in case such an event happens again. I do not think that the commission should have to deal with contents claims. They are mostly covered by insurance. The contents damage causes inconvenience, but not the loss of a place to live. It causes delays in the reinstatement of houses, because the commission\u2019s time and effort has to be taken up with contents claims, and of course it has got the capacity to exhaust, or certainly reduce, the size of the resources that the commission has. So that is an issue for the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EBut on the second issue, the lack of initial experience, I did feel that the Earthquake Commission was not properly prepared for the event that happened, at the magnitude it happened. The commission did not have the people it needed, it did not act fast enough, it was very bureaucratic in its procedures, and it constantly inspected things and did not do very much on the ground. So hopefully the commission learnt from that and will improve in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EOn the third issue I mentioned, it has taken in fact far too long for the commission to attend to the repair or replacement of damaged homes. There have been multiple inspections, as I said, and too little action. Well after a year since the February earthquake, thousands of people still live in seriously damaged homes and unrepaired homes. Many live elsewhere, and cannot afford to do so. These are properties in the green zone. Many need to be replaced, and many still have to be demolished. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI realise that the numbers of claims are extremely high, and that tens of thousands have in fact been attended to. But that is no comfort to the thousands whose claims have not yet been actioned this long\u2014almost 1\u00BD years\u2014after the February earthquake. So the question really is: why is that? I feel that one problem has been the employment only of Fletcher\u2019s as the sole provider. I think perhaps it would have been better to consider others as well. I think a monopoly may have created something of a lack of competition for good results, and of course more resources should mean speedier attention. Overall, progress has been too slow and it really needs to be better. So that is another lesson for the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe fourth and final issue I raised was some concerns that people have expressed, and I think with justification, over some of the internal practices. Initially, it did appear that there were conflicts of interest between some of the staff of the commission and the commission itself. I do note that the commission imposed a self-imposed review of that, and this went some way to solve some of the problems. However, suspicion still exists out there about some of the internal practices like that. So the conclusion that I am afraid I have to draw is that the performance of the Earthquake Commission was not as good as it should have been, and of course it has never been tested, as I said at the beginning. In trying to meet that test, I do not feel it reached the standard we would require, but I do not want to say that it has been a complete failure, because it has not. The commission has done a lot of good work, and I want to pay particular regard and acknowledgment to the people who have been employed by it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u00228fdba774c659453e9870973147905df5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fdba774c659453e9870973147905df5\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to talk about the Earthquake Commission\u2014EQC\u2014in this Crown entities debate. The people of Christchurch and Canterbury have got to know the Earthquake Commission well over the last 16 months, and the commission is the organisation that we love to hate. We love to hate it, but, actually, just a little bit of reflection would tell us how very fortunate we are that it exists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders are heavily insured. Possibly about 99 percent of them have their homes insured, and this is a unique situation. Across the world, particularly in earthquake-prone regions, due to cost most people are uninsured. We look at places like the US, which is a country very similar to us, but in those areas like San Francisco that are earthquake-prone, only about 15 percent of people have their homes insured\u2014only about 15 percent. It is similar in Japan. It is because of the Earthquake Commission, this Crown entity, that virtually all New Zealanders have insurance. Let me explain a little bit about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe Earthquake Commission was set up in 1933, after the Napier earthquake, and it was set up to protect homeowners. It was set up to insure homes, contents, and land. \u201CAnd land\u201D is particularly interesting, because we are one of the very few countries in the world that insures land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8e4799240c34edba37e2f588c1bca67\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: The only one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217bb801e8bb34694b19dc13367a5fc1b\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER\u003C/span\u003E: We are the only country in the world that insures land. Really, what it was was a Government safety net for insurance at a low cost. That low-cost insurance continues today. It is actually what the commission has activated by a levy on your main insurance premium. The Earthquake Commission takes the first $100,000 risk. This keeps the major premiums down. This means that insurance in New Zealand is cheaper and available to all, and hence we have that great cover.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EWhat this means is that Christchurch and Canterbury have a real opportunity to rebuild safer, better, high-quality housing, and mostly out of insurance. There may be a little bit of a gap, but this is an exceptional situation, simply because of the Earthquake Commission. In comparison with recovery scenarios in other countries, we are incredibly fortunate. There have been about 600,000 claims to the commission over the last 11,000 earthquakes. Those claim expenses totalled $11.4 billion in 2010-11, and that left the commission with a net deficit of $7.1 billion for the year ended June 2011. The Natural Disaster Fund was at $5.9 billion pre-earthquake, with another $2.5 billion available for global reinsurance. That fund has now closed, with a deficit of $1.2 billion. So what we are seeing here is that the Earthquake Commission\u2019s liabilities exceeded its assets in 2011. But that is the way the commission is organised, and the Crown has committed to meet that shortfall. The Crown has committed to meet it under section 16 of the Earthquake Commission Act 1993. So because of the Earthquake Commission, people who have insurance have no need to worry that they will not be paid out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EWe all know that 2010-11 was an exceptional year for the commission. Both the September and February earthquakes came in the top five insurance claim situations in the globe. They are enormous claims. The Earthquake Commission is expecting to remediate land and to repair and cover contents for over 100,000 homes. I believe that it has made significant progress. It has paid out $3 billion already, and that is 10 percent of Canterbury\u2019s GDP. So it has been a big shot in the arm, and it has kept our economy going. It is averaging $37 million a week. It has repaired 15,000 homes, and to give you an idea about what that looks like, that is the number of houses that are in Timaru. The commission has repaired the equivalent of Timaru, and we have got about 35,000 houses still coming through the process. We have got a long way to go, and many people are tired and frustrated. But I think it is because of the Earthquake Commission that New Zealanders are insured. Because the commission takes that first $100,000 risk we know that our houses will be repaired. We know that in the long term\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022253985871d4749c783170b046dc18fd5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022253985871d4749c783170b046dc18fd5\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to make a couple of comments mainly in response to some of the offerings this evening from Denis O\u2019Rourke, a new member of Parliament for New Zealand First. I appreciate that he wanted to say that EQC, the Earthquake Commission, had sort of done OK but he could not give it a full pass mark. I think one of the interesting things is that since its modern inception in 1994, where it followed on from the Earthquake and War Damage Commission, the Earthquake Commission has come up for review repeatedly in the House, and MPs from all sides of the House have quietly let it slide through without too much attention. It is not until you have a big disaster like this that an organisation like that becomes tested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAs the previous speaker, Nicky Wagner, said, it is dealing with some 680,000 claims. Those are each individual exposure across the land damage, the built-property damage, and the contents. When you aggregate those per household, it is still over 400,000 household claims. It is huge. There is no other insurance company in the world that has ever dealt with anything quite so big from one event. The only one that comes close is State Farm, an insurer in the United States that dealt with the very big claims that came out of the Hurricane Katrina event some years ago. The difference, though, between the Earthquake Commission and State Farm in the United States was that the Earthquake Commission had a staff of 21 people on the day of the 4 September earthquake in Christchurch; State Farm had a standing staff of over 77,000 when it dealt with its big hurricane event in the United States. So from 21 people dealing with the huge number of rolling claims coming through, it has gone up to, I think, round about 1,200 people now. So it is still a pretty lean machine. It has tried to do as much by contract as it can, because we do not expect to have these events occur with the sort of regularity that would justify a staff of some 77,000 as was the case with its counterpart in the United States. So I think it has done a pretty good job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt is often forgotten that we have had a series of earthquakes there. There have been over 11,000 shakes in total, over 2,000 shakes that have been of a very substantial nature, and five events that have been of such a magnitude that they have triggered a series of Earthquake Commission claims from those events. As the previous speaker said, it has repaired, through the project management office, 16,000 homes now, and at any one time there are 2,000 homes in Christchurch under repair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI noted the comment from Mr O\u2019Rourke where he said that there were some homes that needed to be demolished and rebuilt. The Earthquake Commission does none of those. Once you go over the $100,000 cap, it is in the hands of the private insurers. So the Earthquake Commission is dealing with those repairs under $100,000 and over $10,000. The idea is simply that we will be able to put a brand on those repairs that will see the value of the real estate that is repaired maintained through the years ahead. Had we been in a situation where the Earthquake Commission simply cashed up those who have got damage, firstly, you are relying very much on the Earthquake Commission assessor getting it right first time\u2014there is no second opinion. But under the project management office arrangement, when the builder turns up to do the work, he does the work. I think that is a very important distinction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe other thing is that the Earthquake Commission does cover land damage, and that is totally unique in the world. I think it is a great thing that we have got it, and we must do whatever we can to preserve it, because it has allowed us to put together a programme to do the proper geological survey that is required of many, many parts of Canterbury to determine where the best areas are\u2014or the appropriate areas are\u2014for residential occupation. It is that process that allowed us to be able to say, sadly, to about 9,000 households: \u201CYou need to move on, because where you are living is no longer suitable for residential occupation. The crust under your house has thinned. The depth to bearing is now a long way below you. You may have slumped. The land may have moved\u2019\u2019\u2014in some areas in Christchurch it has dropped by up to 1.8 metres\u2014\u201Cand it is ideal that you do look for some other opportunity for your residential occupation.\u201D We came up with the two offers that have gone out to people, and people can choose one of those: either deal with your private insurer or sell the land to the Government, and the Government will then negotiate with the Earthquake Commission about what the repair payment might be. There will be a very large net cost in this whole thing to the Crown; there is no question about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EBut to go back to my key point, without the Earthquake Commission we would have had no basis to start a land assessment, and no basis, in fact, to engage with the private insurers about where the liability stopped and started. There is a bit of concern out there at the moment over apportionment and continuity of assessment methods for damage. They are being worked through in a constructive way. None of this is easy. If it was, it would have all been fixed quite some time ago. But anyone who comes to Christchurch will see the huge amount of effort that is going in down there. I am not going to stand here and say that everything is perfect with the Earthquake Commission, but by the same token I cannot accept that we should determine in this process that it has come anywhere near a position that would say it has done less than its best. I think it has done very, very well in difficult circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe payments that are being made into the local economy through the Earthquake Commission are no doubt contributing to some of the very good and positive figures that we are seeing around population stability, and around the local economic growth as well. That will continue for a few years to come. We are just seeing the thin end of the wedge of what will eventually be invested in Canterbury in the rebuild. That simply puts an onus on all of us to ensure that there is sufficient economic activity coming in behind that big rebuild over the next decade to ensure that the prosperity in that province continues, and that is certainly a commitment that I make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThere was mention made of the Natural Disaster Fund and how it is somewhat depleted at the present time. Some people have proposed a levy on people\u2019s earnings to try to top it up. The reality is that it takes many, many years to build up a fund of $5 billion. A Government, of course, is always in the sovereign position of being able to strike a levy or strike a tax if it thinks that is appropriate. Our strong view is that it is not required at the present time, and that we can stand as guarantor behind the scheme. One of the positive things I can report is that when the Earthquake Commission went into the reinsurance market recently to buy cover for the exposures that it has to prepare for going forward, it was able to get that cover, and the terms were reasonable, given the circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI want to conclude by just saying that as a major player in the home insurance industry in New Zealand, the Earthquake Commission performs an exceptional service. If the $100,000 cap is too low, it is because this House has allowed it to stay at that level for the last 18 or 19 years. At some point we will need to look at it. I want to acknowledge that Mr O\u2019Rourke has raised the good issue about whether the Earthquake Commission should continue to cover contents. Well, I think that in the difficult insurance market at the present time, you would not want to be mandating from this House a lack of cover, or a withdrawal of cover, for the whole of New Zealand. So there is going to be a transition period that will come after we have had the review of the Earthquake Commission, which should commence later this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI think that in very difficult circumstances this organisation has served the country well. I know that there will be people who listen to this who perhaps want to scoff at it, but, really, I think the question is: how could it have been done better? There was no way that you could have had a standing army of 10,000, 15,000, or 20,000 people hanging around, waiting for the day that there was the big one somewhere in New Zealand to go in there and fix it. When you are dealing with the sorts of volumes that it is dealing with, there will always be ups and downs. There is no question about that. But, overall, it has done a very, very good job. I think it does deserve a commendation from the House. Also, just a little note that all of us as members of Parliament\u2014particularly those of us from Canterbury, who are also, I might say, in most cases claimants\u2014will be watching that progress over the next however long it takes to get the job done, with the intention of ensuring that it is done to the very highest quality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002264ab71360fac4840893935888db4a6d0\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation Corporation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022cae39f5059534e468e3d79e62a9e602d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cae39f5059534e468e3d79e62a9e602d\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is hard to think of a Crown entity, or a public organisation, or a State-owned enterprise that we are looking into tonight that is in a worse state than the Accident Compensation Corporation, and the fault for that lies entirely at the feet of this Government. That is where it lies. An organisation with a proud history has been turned into a shambles inside 3\u00BD years by this Government. The core principles of ACC\u2014prevention, treatment, and rehabilitation\u2014have been replaced with scandal, sleaze, stuff-ups, and a culture of disentitlement, and that is what we are seeing from this Government. From day one it has sought to undermine ACC to ensure that it is not providing the service that New Zealanders would expect of it, and to ready it up for the privatisation plans that we know that the Government has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt would be easy when looking at ACC to gloss over some of the matters that are not the scandal and are not the sleaze\u2014I will return to those shortly\u2014but what I want to mention now, right off the bat, is that in the report of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee we see the heart of what this Government is actually doing to ACC. The committee chose to comment on the increase in the number of decisions going to review. There were 5,193 decisions that went to review in 2007-08. That increased to 9,271 in 2010-11\u2014nearly double.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbad03b7a68348458078d1b199a7e9fc\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a scandal in itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022712f185091634bd7b9e5b5ede6651f61\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is a scandal in itself. But it gets worse. The increase in decisions overturned at review or on appeal went up from 900 in 2007-08 to a staggering 2,288 in 2010-11. That is what is really going on inside ACC. That is what is there. That culture of disentitlement was brought in by the former Minister for ACC Nick Smith actually deliberately targeting a situation whereby people would have their entitlements taken away. More and more decisions were going to review because ACC was working harder and harder to make sure people did not get what they were entitled to. But it is far, far worse than that, because, in fact, what we now know is that the Government pays ACC staff bonuses to get people off the books. That is why things are going to review. It is because people who are entitled to expect that ACC would be there for them are being pushed off it as part of an active campaign by this Government. So do not underestimate at any point the desire of this Government to undermine ACC as a public entity, because the agenda is very clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThere is one good thing\u2014there is only one good thing\u2014from the stuff-ups, scandal, and sleaze that have bedevilled ACC. It is that the process of opening up the work account to competition is being delayed. That is the one thing that is good. But, make no mistake, this Government did it last time in the 1990s, and it will do it again. It wants to privatise this organisation. This process of deliberately undermining the organisation, of ensuring that people do not get what they are entitled to, of seeing more cases go to review and more cases overturned on appeal because the basis of the ACC decision was wrong is the culture that National has been developing in ACC. The Minister for ACC talks about a culture change. Well, the culture change that she wants is a culture of privatisation. We on this side of the House would like to see a culture change that actually sees ACC get back to its core business of prevention, of treatment, of rehabilitation, and of making sure that it is the organisation that New Zealanders should be proud of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut there is absolutely no way New Zealanders can be proud of an organisation whose main contact points in the last few months have been the police, the Privacy Commissioner, and the Auditor-General. That is what most of the work going on in ACC is about at the moment\u2014trying to manage the scandals, and the stuff-ups, and the sleaze. It is simply unacceptable to this day that such a large privacy breach could take place in an organisation like ACC, and what followed from that was a disgrace. It was a farce, actually, but it was also a disgrace, because this organisation\u2014once proud\u2014found itself mired in a huge breach of privacy, Ministers going, and a police inquiry, at the end of which we saw the chair, the chief executive, and board members leave. This is a Crown entity in chaos. It is a shambles. It has been poorly managed from day one of this Government by Ministers Nick Smith and Judith Collins. So mired in the scandal and the sleaze are they that they have completely taken their eye off the ball of this organisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b72717c31338432e9b632caae5702a7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b72717c31338432e9b632caae5702a7d\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E There are many things that National Governments can be proud of, and ACC counts among them. ACC is an organisation that was established under a royal commission set up by a National Government. It was set up by the Holyoake Government, passed into law by Jack Marshall\u2019s Government, and maintained over 40 years by the National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI find it really, really tiresome to have to continue to remind this House why it is that every time National comes back to office it has to tidy up the mess left by Labour. The one thing we have not heard from members of the former Labour Government is the simple word \u201Csorry\u201D. Maryan Street is there; she has the opportunity. She put her signature on a financial loss of $2.4 billion and oversaw 6 months of a $4.8 billion loss. I will do many things\u2014and I certainly regret the fact that there was information leaked on several thousand claimants\u2014but I will not apologise for this Government\u2019s management of ACC.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ELet me tell you why. When the Bolger Government came to office in the early 1990s, I wonder whether you know how many long-term claimants there were on the books at ACC. I can tell you that there were nearly 27,500\u201427,500. It was under a National Government that ACC implemented the case management model that not only is enduring today but is being picked up by social agencies and other insurance companies around the world. The impact of that was profound, because, at its core, the very first thing ACC is required to do is prevent injuries, then treat them, and then compensate for them. But the most important part of that equation is the rehabilitation model, and rehabilitation, when it works, involves people exiting the scheme. I think a reduction in the number of people who are long-term ACC claimants is a heck of a good thing. When we came in in the mid-1990s, with long-term claimants at 27,500, the case management model was successful in reducing that number down in the late 1990s to about 14,000. And then claims continued to reduce. But, under the Labour Government, by how many were long-term claimants reduced? None. They went back up by about 1,000. There were 100,000 fewer claims\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efb5339521af49c0a6226956dc148d17\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: How can that be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272cf3e5a1d654f3b99844c8d89c55bc9\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and 1,000 extra long-term claimants. I can tell you how that can be. It is because, under Labour, ACC was left to take its eye off the rehabilitation ball\u2014a come one, come all approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThere is one thing that Mr Robertson did not mention\u2014and that no Labour member when discussing ACC has ever mentioned\u2014and that is the other stakeholders in ACC. Because it is not only about the claimants; the important thing is that the scheme is affordable. In the late 1990s it was absolutely apparent that with the growing numbers of long-term claimants the scheme could not be sustained in the model that it was in. The full funding model was put in place, and the Labour Government had 9 years to change the full funding model and did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut I will tell members what the Labour Government did do. It allowed rehabilitation rates to drop. This is very important, because every 1 percent drop in rehabilitation rates over a 12-month period costs the scheme half a billion dollars. The rehabilitation rates under Labour went down and down and down, and the long-term tail went up and up and up. I make no apology for the former Minister for ACC Nick Smith and the present Minister, Judith Collins, being very clear about the importance of rehabilitation not just for the claimants but also for the levy payers. And let us be very clear about that. Any softening of that approach is not only bad for the levy payers but very bad for the claimants. We should not be afraid to talk about rehabilitation with somebody, even somebody who has been out of work for 12 months\u2014and there are difficulties in rehabilitating claimants who have been out of work for a time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI congratulate the case managers on the work that they do. If 15 percent\u2014a small proportion\u2014of their remuneration is based on rehabilitation rates, why should we apologise for that? Eighty-five percent of their performance is based on other factors, including, I am quite sure, claimant satisfaction. A very small proportion of it is for doing what the law requires them to do, and that is to rehabilitate claimants in a fair and timely manner. This Government is going to make no apologies for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EYes, there is work to do in ACC, and I look forward to that work being well managed by the Minister, Judith Collins, but I make no apologies\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00226cd5710b59c241fab4bee6d90a37c342\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cd5710b59c241fab4bee6d90a37c342\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E There is no question: ACC is in crisis. It is in the deepest crisis it has ever been in, and I suspect it is the deepest crisis that any Government agency or department has been in for decades and decades. It is probably unprecedented in the history of the New Zealand public sector, with perhaps the exception of the New Zealand Tourism Board under Bryan Mogridge, but that is a different story. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThat address we have just heard from the member Michael Woodhouse just frankly defies credulity. There is no question that people who have been on ACC legitimately, properly\u2014trying to be rehabilitated, entitled to compensation, and entitled to treatment\u2014have been pushed off it when there are no grounds to do so. They have been pushed off it not because they are rehabilitated, not because they are capable of returning to independent living and being without support, not because they are ready to go back to their old job, but because this Government introduced an incentive scheme to claims managers and the management of ACC to push those people off, to make the figures look good and the bottom line look better. Under this Government, ACC has lurched away\u2014lurched in a direction far removed\u2014from its founding principles. Those principles are community responsibility, proper rehabilitation, and injury prevention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWe now know how this crisis has unfolded. It started with Nick Smith\u2019s declaration of a crisis in 2009\u2014a financial crisis that did not exist. It did not matter that ACC was generating surpluses\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f747e4ac20e422b91b172d264875c5e\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: It did exist. Outrageous!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229265fc18cbfb45669fd764c9481c4d4c\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: Of course it existed. Tell that to the levy payers!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe3d2e602e484788800ffc067ffa7ada\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014of a billion dollars a year, Ms Tolley. It did not matter, Mr Young, that it had reserves then of $11 billion\u2014now of about $18 billion. So National declared the crisis. It hiked levies totally unnecessarily. What we now know from the most recent media reports is that there was a crook deal done between Nick Smith and the management of ACC to set up incentives to drive long-term claimants off ACC. Let us be under no illusion. What ACC has done in the last 3\u00BD years has been done at the direction and directive of this Government. It is totally the political decision and directions of this Government that have driven ACC. I say to those who want to exculpate the present Minister and the previous Minister for ACC that they miss the point completely. ACC has acted in accordance with the instructions of its political masters, and we should not let those political masters off the hook, whether it is Nick Smith or Judith Collins. And those who are looking to the present political masters and the present Minister for a solution to the current problems are looking in the wrong place. I make no apology for saying that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ELet us see what happened under this great regime. The surpluses at around 2008 were about a billion dollars a year. Last year, they were $3.5 billion. The reserves are now at $18 billion to $19 billion. But the price of that has been paid by the claimants\u2014the long-term claimants. They have been subject to a brutal managerialism that has taken over ACC. The number of long-term claimants has gone down 25 percent in 3 years. What on earth logic applies there\u2014that in 3 years a quarter of your long-term claimants are miraculously rehabilitated and can go back to work? Jesus could not do as good a job as that! By way of comparison, in the 5 years to 2008 there were 12 percent of claimants who went from ACC on to benefits, because they were rehabilitated and there was no job for them. In 2010 it was 19 percent. What is the miraculous remedy? It is not because rehabilitation improved; it is because claimants have been shoved off it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ELet me read from some correspondence I have had just in the last couple of days. It does not take much to cite evidence when it comes to ACC. I just dip at random into my \u201CIn\u201D pile for the current day, and you get something like this. Here is what this Wellingtonian said: \u201CAt the end of January 2010 I had an accident coming down a ladder while off on holiday. When I first applied for ACC they queried whether it was due to any pre-existing conditions and whether I could get anyone else to help me, apart from ACC.\u201D That is January 2010. Fast-forward to the end of 2011. The old case manager went; \u201Ca new case manager was appointed and at our first meeting, after introducing herself, she simply stated that her job was to get me off ACC. Alarm bells rang. Where was the rehabilitation? Where was the job training?\u201D. That question is being asked by hundreds of innocent New Zealanders up and down the country right at this moment, because ACC is in crisis and they are paying the cost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe issue in ACC is no longer just one of confidence in ACC. It is about how the issues are handled\u2014politically. The present Minister is not up to it. The top echelons of the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb66bd40f46642d980f6df2c18f6330e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb66bd40f46642d980f6df2c18f6330e\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E In 2008 when Nick Smith took over the portfolio there were two difficulties with ACC. One was that the return on its investments was dropping. And why was that? There was a global financial crisis: a global financial crisis in which every investment company and investment account around the world began to notice a falling away in the interest and the returns on their investment. So that was one problem. There was another difficulty, and it was with the non-earners account. There was some underfunding in the non-earners account. ACC has six accounts: five were fine and are funded by levies. The one that is not funded by levies is funded by appropriation. There was some underfunding because of the increased costs of medical treatment, in large measure. There were two difficulties, and two challenges\u2014one that needed to be waited out, and the other one that needed to be addressed by an incoming Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EBut what did we have? We had Nick Smith come in, go round in tiny circles, and create a panic. He created a panic around an institution that had existed since the 1970s and was brought in by a National Government, as Michael Woodhouse said, because it saw the purpose and usefulness of it, as well. But this Government has now reduced this ACC institution to chaos and destruction. It has wrought more chaos and visited more destruction on this organisation than any other public sector agency that I can think of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EWhen we have a look at the report of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee we notice that in the period from 2007-08\u2014I was Minister for ACC over that time\u2014there were 5,000 decisions going to review, but by 2010-11 there were over 9,000. The increase in the decisions overturned at review went from 900, when I was the Minister, to 2,288 during the time Nick Smith was the Minister. Let me give you one other significant factor, and it goes to the issue of morale. The select committee reported on staff issues. It said proudly that ACC had said that it had met the target of exceeding the New Zealand State sector 50th percentile and had improved from 2009-10 to 2010-11. I will bet my bottom dollar that by the time the 2011-12 review comes round, it will have plummeted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EBut maybe there is some remedy that is in the report, because if we go on to the very next sentence it says: \u201CWe noted that the biggest collective employment agreement covering ACC staff had expired 3 years ago, and remains unsettled.\u201D Perhaps ACC could get some performance from its staff if it treated them well, to begin with, and it concluded their collective agreement, instead of cooking up ideas that provide the worst of incentives, by offering bonuses if you shoot as many people as possible off the long-term caseload. If you get those people off and you get a bonus for it, that has got to be the most pernicious, the most evil, and the most destructive way of addressing rehabilitation that I have ever heard. It creates the wrong kinds of incentives for staff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ESign that collective agreement. Get the staff morale back on board. People want to work in an organisation that they know works well for people. At the moment they are leaving in droves from ACC, starting at the top. They are leaving in droves. Nick Smith\u2019s plan may well have been to turn the corporation into chaos. That may well have been his plan, because it happens a lot with portfolios that Nick Smith takes over. They are reduced to chaos in short order, and he usually gets bumped off and changed so that it can be repaired by somebody else. This one is now in Judith Collins\u2019 lap to repair. She needs to address these issues. If she wants a culture change, try settling the collective agreement in that workplace. Try stopping putting in perverse incentives that are going to make people unwell and will not assist in rehabilitation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea5731bd47e446dcb705a04cfaceed82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea5731bd47e446dcb705a04cfaceed82\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E There is something fundamentally wrong in ACC. It has been wrong for a while, and it gets \u201Cwronger and wronger\u201D by the year. The year in question, 2011-12, has been the worst year on record. Other speakers have spoken about the social contract, that historic bargain in which New Zealanders gave away the right to sue in exchange for a system based on the Woodhouse principles. I have spoken previously in the House about those. It was a great system\u2014a great system that has been brought low. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI want to tell a story about that system and about that process. It starts, more or less, in 2009, when we had a Government coming in and a new Minister for ACC, who spoke about a financial disaster at ACC. Again, other speakers have spoken about that. That new Minister appointed a board and signed a service and purchase agreement with the chair of the board that actually required a target for fewer and fewer people to remain on long-term compensation. In the subsequent years after that 2009 agreement\u2014and, in particular, in the 2011-12 year that we are discussing today\u2014those targets have become increasingly steep. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003ESo we were faced with a board of ACC that was under pressure from its Minister, and in place were some instructions about what ACC needed to do. What ACC proceeded to do was progressively disentitle New Zealanders by reinterpreting the law so that more and more New Zealanders making claims were not covered. ACC chose to pursue that by introducing this staff remuneration incentives scheme by which staff who contributed to the goal of getting more and more people off long-term compensation would be financially rewarded. It contributed to that goal by hand-picking particular medical assessors who the ACC board knew were likely to give it the result it wanted, which was a recommendation that this person was rehabilitated and ready to go back to work. Well, it would be fantastic if that were true, would it not? Would it not be fantastic if all of those people whom ACC threw off its books\u2014those 3,500 people over the past 3 years\u2014in fact did go back into paid work? Sadly, that is not the case. Actually, only a tiny minority of that group were able to go back to work. Most of that group actually found themselves on income support benefits, or in that dreadful limbo world of being neither employed nor eligible for benefits. That is the outcome for those groups. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe test of that has been in the number of reviews of those decisions that ACC has faced. The current Minister said in the House last week that the rehabilitation decisions\u2014the decisions to remove people from compensation\u2014reflect the fact that the people were rehabilitated and ready to go back to work. Well, the problem with those financial incentives for front-line staff is that there is no counterbalance. There is nothing that measures whether the decisions were the right ones or the wrong ones. In fact, the increasing rate\u2014that sharply increasing rate\u2014at which decisions have been found at review and in the courts to be wrong suggests that there is something fundamentally wrong with the decision-making processes at ACC. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EWhat has happened fundamentally is that financial incentives\u2014the dollars\u2014have been put in front, ahead of the needs of ACC\u2019s claimants. That is nowhere better reflected than in the issues around privacy. Why is it that ACC had this catastrophic failure of privacy culture? It is because it did not really care about the claimants. Fundamental culture change is needed. Judith Collins\u2019 first service and purchase agreement is due now. What will it say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f6ccca52b09945adbc7d9cc413d8a5b3\u0022\u003EIndependent Police Conduct Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00229c2c75e5221247f0b2768e823d57792e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c2c75e5221247f0b2768e823d57792e\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa. Kia ora taku tama e noho mai r\u0101 ki runga ake n\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Chair, and to all of us. Greetings, my son seated up there.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party enters this debate with the clear line that we took to the polls last year when we sought to disestablish the Independent Police Conduct Authority. We believe that the public needs to have trust and confidence in the New Zealand Police and, unfortunately, recent history has not enabled that to occur. I have to say that I have got great admiration for the job the police do, having been out with them, but, unfortunately, some issues have been really testing that admiration. In fact, our full trust and confidence in the police is actually at an all-time low. Recent surveys have reported 28 percent of New Zealanders have full trust and confidence in the New Zealand Police. Whether it is perception or practice, this is about the fragile trust and confidence that New Zealanders have in our police force. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI would have to say that the financial review that we have in front of us, or at least I have in front of me, is not all that flash. The report of the Law and Order Committee revealed that there was a deficit of $538,000 in the 2010-11 year and, despite a goal of inspecting 30 detention facilities during the year, the authority managed about 20. The number of open files is still quite high. In 2011 there remained 584 open files. The M\u0101ori Party believes that every New Zealander has the right to expect trust, accountability, and transparency out of the Independent Police Conduct Authority, and we are mindful of the observations of Transparency International that \u201CThe numerous agencies in government responsible for minimising corruption represent a problem. \u2026 There should be fewer, more centralised, controlling agencies.\u201D It was in light of that that the M\u0101ori Party called for a single anti-corruption commission, which might bring together the Independent Police Conduct Authority, the Serious Fraud Office, the Judicial Conduct Commissioner, the Judicial Conduct Panel, and even the investigative functions of the State Services Commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIt is a real worry that in the financial review there is comment that the authority has had to rely on staff taking on extra work in order to meet its responsibilities. Something, I think, is terribly wrong if the workload does not appear to have been reduced. There is a significant deficit return and some work simply is not getting done. Particular concern is related to the responsibilities of the authority to issue its report into the activities of what has now become known as the T\u016Bhoe raids back in October 2007. Five years on it is a miscarriage of justice if the State agent established to report on matters such as this has still not offered up its report. When I asked questions of the former Minister of Police last October, the response from Minister Collins was that in the interests of justice, that report would not be public until the court case had been completed. Well, as the local MP, I am pretty disappointed that the reports into the treatment suffered by the people living in and around the Ru\u0101toki valley have not seen the light of day\u2014both the Independent Police Conduct Authority report and the Human Rights Commission report. The violations of human rights that occurred on 15 October 2007 have cast a real, sad, and wide shadow over this nation, and it is my belief\u2014it is the M\u0101ori Party belief\u2014that it is time that the events of that day were exposed for all to see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFinally, there is a headline comment made in the report of the Law and Order Committee about the role of the New Zealand Police and the Independent Police Conduct Authority that these two organisations are \u201Con a \u2018parallel path\u2019 towards ensuring public confidence in policing.\u201D If that is really the case, then I would hope that there is someone listening who might have some courage to have those reports issued so that all New Zealanders then can make up their minds. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002297832524467b416ab53aa557297011d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297832524467b416ab53aa557297011d0\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I want to take a short call just to address a couple of points that the previous speaker, Te Ururoa Flavell, made, particularly in relation to the Independent Police Conduct Authority and the Operation Eight report. I want to preface it by saying, as a relatively new Minister of Police and having received only one report from the authority, that the quality of that report was outstanding. I think the authority should be commended for the very thorough work that it does do in reporting on some of these major events in a way that the general public can follow pretty carefully through what has happened. Of course the report that I am referring to is the report into the accidental shooting of an innocent bystander when the police were pursuing an armed offender in Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EIf I come back to Operation Eight, the member himself made the point that the previous Minister of Police commented on the delay in the report from the Independent Police Conduct Authority until the court case was completed. Well, it might be 5 years down the track, but we are still awaiting the finalisation of that court case. We are still awaiting appeals. So in the interests of justice, as much as all of us would like to have that Independent Police Conduct Authority report finished and have the report out in the public, we do have to await the finality of the justice system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EIn the meantime, I commend the Commissioner of Police for his meetings with T\u016Bhoe. The point he has made is the fact that the operation was not against T\u016Bhoe; in fact, the operation took place right across the country, against a wide array of people. But no doubt the people of T\u016Bhoe await with the most interest the report from the Independent Police Conduct Authority\u2014as we all do. Once the court case has been completed, I have no doubt that that report will be forthcoming very promptly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003ESo I would just like to finish by saying that I think we are very well served by the Independent Police Conduct Authority, and, of course, we have a new head of that authority in Judge Carruthers. I am sure that the very high standard that has been set will continue under its new leadership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa1e3d03cdd44f109bbd412b4766a71b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa1e3d03cdd44f109bbd412b4766a71b\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E The Independent Police Conduct Authority is an independent Crown entity, and, as it notes in its statement of intent for 2009-12, it has a role as watchdog over police actions. When the Chair of the Independent Police Conduct Authority, Justice Goddard, appeared before the Law and Order Committee she was very clear on that point\u2014that the Independent Police Conduct Authority is there as an independent body on behalf of the public of New Zealand to scrutinise and take complaints about, and write reports on behalf of the people of New Zealand on, the New Zealand Police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EIt was interesting also in the evidence that Justice Goddard gave to the Law and Order Committee that she was well aware of the fiscal constraints that this present Government has and was satisfied also that the Independent Police Conduct Authority could fulfil its functions as a Crown entity in that environment. In fact, Justice Goddard made no complaint at all about the requirement to operate within a constrained fiscal environment, and seemed rightly satisfied with the work of the Independent Police Conduct Authority over the previous year in her evidence to the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWhat I believe was most notable in the evidence in the financial review to the Law and Order Committee was the comments that Justice Goddard made around its investigative capacity. In respect of the most serious matters brought to the Independent Police Conduct Authority, it had been the practice that the authority would wait for the police investigation of that particular serious matter, and then perhaps review it afterwards. So what is now the practice of the Independent Police Conduct Authority is that it itself undertakes the investigation, rather than sitting back and waiting for the police to investigate themselves, and then review that complaint after it had been determined. I thought that was a very powerful attitude to take and I commend the Independent Police Conduct Authority for taking that approach. As the Minister of Police has just mentioned, Justice Carruthers will pick up the role of the Chair of the Independent Police Conduct Authority and we look forward to continuing with his contribution to the watchdog role over the New Zealand Police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe authority independently investigates all deaths and all instances of serious bodily harm caused by police employees. It also investigates or directly oversees the investigation of the most serious complaints against the New Zealand Police. This is an incredibly important role that the Independent Police Conduct Authority has, and so the committee questioned the relationship the Independent Police Conduct Authority has with the police, and what the relationship is like between those two organisations: the police and the watchdog. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWell, we were told that although the authority has a memorandum of understanding with the police\u2014which was signed in 1994, so it is now a few years old\u2014there is a good spirit of cooperation between the Independent Police Conduct Authority and the police, and that in its view that agreement, although it was useful, is now largely irrelevant because both bodies understand very clearly their role. The point was made also that the two authorities were not in an adversarial relationship, but actually were working on\u2014and these are the words of the Independent Police Conduct Authority\u2014a parallel path towards ensuring public confidence in policing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI just want to pick up on the comment made by the M\u0101ori Party MP Te Ururoa Flavell about the deficit that was recorded, of $538,000. The M\u0101ori Party member noted that this was a bad thing. Well, actually there is a simple explanation for that. The shortfall came about because of a very important child abuse inquiry, for which it received an allocation spanning 2 financial years. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022176ecd79ddb6469190248a989bc6041c\u0022\u003EPrivacy Commissioner\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7aeda51d7124fc28f72d92fe510e465\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7aeda51d7124fc28f72d92fe510e465\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call in this Crown entities debate in my capacity as chair of the Justice and Electoral Committee. The Justice and Electoral Committee has attempted this year to review all the Crown entities for which we have oversight. That is a fairly tall order. Some, such as the Abortion Supervisory Committee and the Law Commission, are reviewed quite rarely, so I want to thank members of the committee, one of whom is right behind me at the moment, for their attention to this most important aspect of our function of scrutiny this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAnother of those entities, which is also reviewed only periodically and which I wish to focus on here, is the Office of the Privacy Commissioner\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ac0ad6c5aa64fd5aac7a57b22c45b6c\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CPry-vacy\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1c75aa68e854d55a04f846e6e906dd4\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it depends, Miss Moroney, on which of your parents you listen to. My mother always said \u201Cpri-vacy\u201D; my father always said \u201Cpry-vacy\u201D. Dad is dead, so I tend to stick with Mum in case she might be listening. But I am confident that all members of this Chamber would agree that we are fortunate to have a commissioner of the calibre and experience of Marie Shroff. She has a very proud record of public service in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAs is the case with many Crown entities in the current fiscal environment, demand for their services is often increasing while funding necessarily remains static. That is certainly true of the Office of the Privacy Commissioner, which is an independent Crown entity established under the Privacy Act 1993. Just for the benefit of the many people who are listening in the gallery at the moment or who may be watching on their television sets at home, it may be useful to explain that the commissioner has wide-ranging functions, including, but not limited to, investigating complaints about breaches of privacy, running privacy education programmes, examining the privacy implications of bills, maintaining the Privacy Act\u2019s information privacy principles, safeguarding human rights, ensuring that New Zealand meets its international privacy obligations and adheres to general international guidelines, and protecting social interests that compete with privacy, such as freedom of information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThat last function, in particular, requires particular wisdom, discernment, and constant vigilance. The commissioner\u2019s work has to adapt rapidly to emerging trends and technologies, and demand for it is ever-increasing. In spite of budgetary constraints and growing demand, the commissioner has improved productivity and service quality. We were very pleased, as a committee, to hear that, and to be able to commend the commissioner for that achievement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWe were advised that over the last 5 years there has been a substantial increase in public complaints lodged with the commissioner. Media inquiries have doubled, and telephone and email inquiries have also increased by about 50 percent. We were told that about 10,000 calls are made to the commissioner\u2019s inquiries line every year. There is no Minister responsible for privacy issues, so the Privacy Commissioner is the only legitimate source for media information on matters pertaining to privacy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe commissioner expects the number of inquiries to continue to increase as privacy accidents are increasing because of the large databases of personal information held by public agencies. We had an interesting discussion with the commissioner about the implications of ever-evolving technology, especially social media. The commissioner is concerned at evidence that employers in the United States are increasingly requesting access to, or passwords for, prospective employees\u2019 social media accounts. That is a really worrying trend, and it is, apparently, quite common now in the United States. Fortunately, it is not yet thought to be a problem here in New Zealand, but the commissioner is aware of the possibility of it, and will remain vigilant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWe also discussed the very real and growing problem of cyber-bullying, especially among young people. We all know that this can lead, and, indeed, has led, to some considerable distress and tragic outcomes. So we were very pleased to hear that information kits for teachers on protecting online privacy were distributed to secondary schools several years ago, and that the commissioner has recently received funding from Unesco for a similar initiative for primary schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe Office of the Privacy Commissioner is a Crown entity that is performing a very valuable public service. It has sensible priorities and a very realistic understanding of the current fiscal environment. So I am confident, as indeed were all of the committee as we met with the commissioner and conducted this financial review, that New Zealanders are well served by the Office of the Privacy Commissioner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e64625a2f20e479eb505d4286d1fc48e\u0022\u003EElectricity Corporation of New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000646\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002272dbdc986b78464cbd3c08318847ec69\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Post\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000648\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022cfd18221083b4fa380058a3240a72056\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cfd18221083b4fa380058a3240a72056\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Some of the issues that we wish to debate have been passed. Are we still able to do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022ece35a7e32e54f54b84f65208f30d411\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ece35a7e32e54f54b84f65208f30d411\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I need to know which ones they are, because on the list\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022175f515806b44c47b389d3ecceea399e\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Genesis Power, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfecd012eb4145e1b0e3dc9e22ba96fb\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Which one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c656493bc7124d82b1fb6259f184757f\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Genesis Power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0c15ff5cbfc4b3194248e0afd3afc87\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if you wish to debate that, you can, but that is not on the list that I was given. I understand, then, that members wish to debate the entity, Genesis Power Ltd.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c7ea7a1130e34d5db4af32a6a8c84fd3\u0022\u003EGenesis Power\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u002237d21726703444278f034d549d4dccce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237d21726703444278f034d549d4dccce\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to stand and discuss the financial review of Genesis Power. Genesis Power is a developer and procurer of fuel sources, a generator of electricity, and a retailer and a trader in energy. It supplies 19 percent of New Zealand\u2019s electricity. As a result of the enactment of the Electricity Industry Act 2010, in June 2011 Genesis purchased two of Meridian Energy Ltd\u2019s hydro generators, Tekap\u014D A and Tekap\u014D B. This acquisition of the two hydros changed the generating portfolio of Genesis. Dame Jenny Shipley, the chair of Genesis, reported to the Commerce Committee that Genesis went into the South Island market, and in a difficult environment succeeded in securing and actually exceeding its targets in terms of the numbers of people who joined Genesis. She reported that it was a very competitive environment, but that competition was good for customers, and it also made companies perform very well indeed. She said that its approach was to try, through good customer service, to reduce and avoid churn. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EMany of the energy companies reported, as did the Electricity Authority, on the effect of what they call churn, where through the website www.whatsmynumber.org.nz consumers have the opportunity to compare retail prices, and be able to switch between those retail companies in order to get the best price for their electricity. What they intended to do, and did, was understand the customers, relate to them in terms of communication response time, time to serve, getting back to people, solving their problems, and so forth, and also offer a range of products that met different customers\u2019 profiles. So the competition that www.whatsmynumber.org.nz has created has caused a great response to the market, and the effect of that has been the reduction in prices, particularly around those discounts for early payment. One energy company increased its discount from 10 percent to 22 percent because of that. So it has had a very positive effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIn 2010-11 Genesis generated revenue of around $1.8 billion, and it made an overall post-tax loss of $17 million, partly as a result of the $97 million revaluation costs when there was a revaluation of the Tekap\u014D B station, particularly for the forward planning around work it wanted to do there. It acquired 26,500 additional South Island customers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EGenesis Power is one of the energy companies in which the Government will offer 49 percent interest in the mixed-ownership model. Inevitably, this came up in discussion at the financial review by the Commerce Committee. Dame Jenny Shipley reported that she was very happy with both the board and the management\u2019s performance. She reported that Genesis raised debt. It raised a corporate bond in order to fund the transaction of purchasing Tekap\u014D A and Tekap\u014D B, and having a listed bond required it to give every consideration to performing as if it was a listed entity. This came up, I understand, last week in the debate in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EOne member of the committee asked: \u201Cwhat is the upside, in your view or the board\u2019s view \u2026 [regarding] partially floating a sound company\u201D \u2026?\u201D The chair, Dame Jenny Shipley, replied: \u201Clet me say that I think taxpayers are entitled to know that SOE boards attempt to run these companies in the best way possible.\u201D But she said that \u201Cthe second point in the case of Genesis is we do have a corporate bond, and so we actually have real and legal obligations to continuous disclosure\u2014we have to\u2014in any material decisions that we make. So we are right in the zone, and, frankly, the board\u2019s skill, attention, and competency has \u2026 already moved into that space.\u201D She went on to say that it was \u201Cbecause of the bond requiring us to pay attention in order to partially fund the cost of the Tekap\u014D transaction.\u201D Genesis raised a bond, and because of that bond issue, according to the chair it became subject to market scrutiny regarding their company performance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002297ac303004464e84be3a9530fafd6460\u0022\u003ELandcorp Farming\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000663\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226502506520b74086bf1a60efbc2d4a61\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Railways Corporation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0920468f87b4be2ae98f06fec735527\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0920468f87b4be2ae98f06fec735527\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to talk in regard to KiwiRail today, and just the importance that that organisation has for the future of this country as we look forward. We are a trading nation and we rely on getting freight to ports quickly, efficiently, and in a timely manner. We also rely on taking freight from ports to New Zealand\u2019s businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2766d5b9776486eb09782c359d18e88\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the Government doing about the Gisborne line?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225706254c858445b88b3d19a005255dd1\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The Labour Party wants us to talk about Gisborne. Is the Gisborne line what you want to talk about? Well, we will come to that. But we have to look at the essence of what KiwiRail is there for. It is a major infrastructural asset that we have as a country. This Government has committed to turning KiwiRail round. We have a turn-round plan, which has a distinct Government investment in that organisation, and it is in the best interest of KiwiRail and New Zealand business going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe want KiwiRail to be effective and to have a long-term strategy. To do that, KiwiRail needs to stand on its own two feet. And what KiwiRail has suffered from for many years is political interference telling it how to run its business. KiwiRail has then been required to do things that are not economically in its best interests and cost it money, and therefore it is not competitive. The thing we need to do with KiwiRail is let it be a business. Let it have the freedom to go out there and compete. Let it go out there and make decisions on where it wants to invest its money, and not be told by people in this House how it should run its business just for purely political motives. The Labour Party bought KiwiRail back to do that. We have taken KiwiRail on and will make it run as a real business, and that is the defining difference between the two parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cfd025b3b654390ab7d61920f67da2c\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: But no passenger train from Hamilton to Auckland, right, David.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a4de14f91814ee19db0ae1796eb4a83\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: You want to talk about the passenger train from Hamilton to Auckland. That is what Sue Moroney wants to do. This is Sue Moroney\u2019s election pledge for the last two elections, which has not got off the ground. It cost $15,000 a year per passenger on that train. Sue Moroney wants to give 95 people a subsidy of $15,000 each for a year, do you not, Sue? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022071b29875d0b439b8e1533b9e5007b5f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8b0260ca1ba4a5ca5776e84c5b51238\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: That is what it costs. Those are the numbers. The city council said no. The regional council said no. But yet Sue Moroney went to the electorate year after year seeking that train\u2014a train that has not worked in the past. Let us have a look at the trial during the Rugby World Cup. Guess how many people went on that train.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed22d59bc9ee45209c4c6bf6d761477e\u0022\u003EHon Chester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Five.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209764d605bd643009a65358bdef5701f\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is more than five.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a3a6eea1517465fbbed60cf9042a4cf\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Six.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236780bd347fa4ce1a336c8a5d4d4c9f0\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Six? It is more than six. It is not many more than six; keep going, guys. There is a potential\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1f23e86b1d24c20b4c58cf619259078\u0022\u003ENikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: 20.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fa623dc4eb44c0bb7a312268f1899ae\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is less than 20. It was nine. Nine people went on this great train during the world cup to a rugby game, and Sue Moroney said it would be full. That is from the great Labour Party geniuses of economic management who know better than KiwiRail management about how to run their own business. They said: \u201CLet\u2019s have this train. Let\u2019s do it. It will be economical.\u201D And there were nine people on it. It is $15,000, Sue, if you have 95 people. So if you have only nine people on it, how much is that subsidy for that train per year? It is a lot of money. That is what it is, Sue. It is a lot of money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223adb3ce07d7441aca4a4af6816bfc25f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member knows that he must use the member\u2019s full name. All right? It has happened twice in this debate. The member knows the consequences of not using the member\u2019s full name or title. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2ae68fe0ce54eaf9f9958d9ad179c0b\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: And he needs to tell the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9ebe5446d674a1e94f18a274b769f47\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot say that. I ask the member to withdraw and apologise for that comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e5cae7ca87946f6bf01caf09da66a11\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f48e293223543448a8819c81a30d635\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: If it is on this matter, the member will be out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220826ce41f4d4cbb8b1e648209c8369e\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: I do wish to ask the Chair to ask the member to speak to the Crown entity that he is actually supposed to be talking to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3f5728e7129417a8994ce258a9a8c0a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I will decide on that, about relevance. I know the member will come back to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc20934e83824dc4bd164bb8d1b1e6ea\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair. KiwiRail is an important part of our infrastructure. It has an opportunity in two areas: freight and passenger transport. Rail works really well when you have a large contingent of freight in one place that wants to go to another place. And it works well when you have a large number of people in one place who want to go to another place. We have to be careful how we invest in KiwiRail to make sure it uses that strategic advantage. For example, Hamilton is a great place for a freight hub for KiwiRail, and we are working closely with Tainui to develop that at Ruakura. That is in the best interest of Tainui, and it is in the best interest of the New Zealand economy, and it will help us to deliver those resources and that infrastructure to our people going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EPassenger transport works well in Wellington and Auckland. Wellington is a very good place for passenger transport because it is a straight line; people live in one place and they work in another place, and it is not a great distance. We are investing heavily in the passenger transport network in Wellington. In Auckland it is important as well, because Auckland is our biggest city and we need to develop that infrastructure. We have put a billion or so dollars into the electrification of the Auckland network. That is a huge investment for the Auckland rail system. It is for passenger rail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223bc3d61b71ba4234aa7e8a45a0df49d2\u0022\u003ESolid Energy New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00222f4a93999b304488b6636e7c8f77395c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f4a93999b304488b6636e7c8f77395c\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a brief call on the financial review of Solid Energy. The way in which we define and measure the success of companies like Solid Energy goes to the heart of how we run our economy. In the 2010-11 financial year, Solid Energy generated $828 million and recorded a net profit after tax of $87.2 million. But that profit does not take account of externalities. It does not take account of the environmental costs of the company\u2019s coalmining at Stockton, and the acid mine-drainage into the Ng\u0101kawau River and other waterways. It does not take account of the increased greenhouse gas emissions from the company\u2019s increase in coal exports. Solid Energy is a creature of our traditional economic model and our system of Government accounts, where we measure economic success by the financial bottom line and the focus is on growing GDP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E That is what the Green Party would like to change through Dr Kennedy Graham\u2019s Public Finance (Sustainable Development Indicators) Amendment Bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3182e7b4702409ab4233ed470fdb249\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Where is he? Let him speak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271cfc1878c1f43e8a917cde8e8bd254e\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: He is in New York. That is why that bill is so important, because we would be discussing different questions here tonight in this financial review if we had the 39 environmental indicators of prosperity in our national set of accounts, and if Solid Energy\u2019s performance was evaluated in terms of those indicators. The profit line for Solid Energy conceals the death of hundreds of rare Powelliphanta augustus snails frozen to death in the fridges of the Department of Conservation in Hokitika because Solid Energy insisted on removing them from their natural habitat so that it could take the top off Mount Augustus. The Green Party wants these externalities to be taken into account in both the company\u2019s balance sheet and its annual report, and in our national accounts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EOne of the most serious externalities, which cannot be adequately considered in this financial review, is the impact of the company\u2019s lignite mining in Southland. The large profits that Solid Energy has made have allowed it to experiment with untried technology. It is proposing to convert low-quality lignite into briquettes, into urea, and into diesel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223209d90328154f4fa2a6182eece04c01\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s just stupid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b44568a5b2d14183bf67e837b4af4829\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: It is just stupid. Thank you, Mr Mallard. The Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment says that the proposed lignite plant would be responsible for the single biggest increase in carbon emissions in New Zealand\u2019s history. The Government went to Rio, but it should not have been proud to be at Rio, because shareholding Ministers should have seen the irresponsibility in Solid Energy being allowed to proceed with lignite mining in Southland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIn 2009 New Zealand in Copenhagen took responsibility for reducing our annual greenhouse gas emissions to between 10 to 20 percent below 1990 levels by 2020, yet our greenhouse gas emissions are on track to be 30 percent above the 1990 level by 2020. Solid Energy is making a major contribution to that. It makes no sense for New Zealanders to subsidise new investment in the carbon-intensive technology that Solid Energy is undertaking in Southland. It makes no sense to allocate free carbon credits that will equate to billions of dollars of taxpayer subsidies to this company. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt made interesting reading looking at the Commerce Committee\u2019s report and the transcripts, because there is a whole issue, too, around lack of accountability and lack of transparency. There was an issue that the shareholding Ministers\u2014the Minister of Finance and the Minister for State Owned Enterprises\u2014should have pushed the organisation on. It will certainly get worse with the mixed-ownership model, because there is no ability for Ministers to seek information from the mixed-ownership model companies and there is no ability for the Official Information Act to apply. Solid Energy declined, despite questions from members of the select committee, to release the business case for its Southland lignite conversion projects. It also declined to release the results of its annual public opinion surveys, which it claims substantiate its view that the majority of New Zealanders believe that our coal should be developed if our environment is protected. There is no ability, with that business case not being released and the public opinion surveys not being released\u2014not being able to see the questions that Solid Energy is asking\u2014to actually look properly at the operations of the company. So there has been very limited accountability and transparency in the way that Solid Energy does its business. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220bb896fd54734f3696b0a62b01c403e9\u0022\u003EAuckland District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u0022540ea25b7d3047369f5dc55e13b13327\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022540ea25b7d3047369f5dc55e13b13327\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to speak in the Committee stage of this debate on the Auckland District Health Board. First, I would like to acknowledge the Minister of Health, the Hon Tony Ryall, for his leadership in the health sector, which is now, happily, a very settled sector that is in stark contrast to what it was before we took over. Back then it was a demoralised and disenchanted sector, where clinicians were considered part of the problem, not the solution, where women with breast cancer were shipped off for radiotherapy in Australia, and where tens of thousands of New Zealanders had been culled from waiting lists. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI would like to focus on the 2010-11 financial review of the Auckland District Health Board, which the Health Committee viewed in conjunction with that of the Waitemat\u0101 District Health Board. The committee made this decision in its timetable because both district health boards had worked collaboratively for some years and were working towards practical collaboration, and it seemed sensible to review both district health boards together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EBoth district health boards share a chair\u2014that is, Dr Lester Levy, a M\u0101ori board member\u2014and integrated back-office functions. I would like to acknowledge Dr Levy for his leadership, in particular with reference to the Waitemat\u0101 District Health Board, which was quite a troubled district health board prior to his taking the chair. Dr Levy reported collaboration at every level, which the committee was very pleased to hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E Waitemat\u0101 had quite serious financial difficulties in the past, recording deficits in 3 out of the last 5 years, but the financial result in the year under review shows it recorded a surplus. The committee felt that this was actually an outstanding, dramatic, and astonishing turn-round, and I think that that is all down to Dr Levy\u2019s leadership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI will just make some general comments about Auckland District Health Board. It is responsible for 87 percent of the people in the Auckland Council wards; it is the fourth-largest of the 20 district health boards. It covers almost half a million people, which is about 10 percent of New Zealand\u2019s population. As at June 2011 Auckland District Health Board received about $1.8 billion in revenue and employed 10,000 staff, which is the equivalent of nearly 7,500 full-time equivalents. It had a small net surplus for the year under review of $142,000, which is slightly up from the budgeting surplus of $58,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003ETo get some perspective around this district health board, I would just like to make the comment that it is the largest trainer of doctors, with approximately 1,200 doctors, and at any point 630 of them are at various stages of training. It is the largest clinical research facility in New Zealand. It provides local hospital and outpatient services for more than 400,000 people living in the Auckland City area. It provides tertiary services for the northern region, and over 50 percent of services are provided to people outside the district. There is a significant what we call inter-district flow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EIt is a provider of many specialist services such as organ transplants\u2014that is, heart, lungs, and livers\u2014acute massive pulmonary embolism treatment services, paediatric intensive care, major head trauma following neurosurgery, high-risk obstetrics, and a number of other tertiary services such as clinical genetics and paediatric oncology for patients in the northern and midland regions. It is a very busy district health board and there are many layers and complexities in its operation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe committee was very pleased to hear from Dr Levy that improving productivity was a priority area for the Auckland District Health Board, and that it was focusing on greater productivity done more efficiently with lower costs, shorter hospital stays, and more satisfied patients\u2014and who could complain about that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI would like to just talk about the health Minister\u2019s introduction of health targets, because that really has put the minds of district health boards on productivity. These health targets are national performance measures specifically designed to improve performance. They have been accepted widely through the sector. They have not been seen as threatening by clinicians. They provide a focus for action. They are published quarterly, and they cover such matters as emergency departments, elective surgery, cancer treatment waiting times\u2014particularly radiotherapy\u2014immunisation, helping smokers to quit, diabetes, and cardiovascular services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe health targets work as benchmarks for district health boards, and in reality are a league table, but, as I said earlier, they are not seen as threatening. In fact, district health boards have used them to benchmark each other and to step up. Quite frankly, Waitemat\u0101 has turned from being one of the poor performers to being one of the top performers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022198cea77111f49cbb9462f9afb01c372\u0022\u003ECareer Services\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u002233b2319545a24ba286d8454b03e6e211\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233b2319545a24ba286d8454b03e6e211\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education): \u003C/span\u003EKia ora. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou te Whare e whakawh\u0101iti nei i runga i t\u0113nei kaupapa o te p\u014D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E[Thank you. Greetings to you and us collectively, the House, compressed here in this evening\u2019s debate.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EI am absolutely delighted to take a call about Careers New Zealand, which was Career Services, the Government agency responsible for leading the career development of all New Zealanders. It is because I have absolute confidence in the contribution that Career Services makes to the overall education landscape, and the powerful support it provides to all New Zealanders\u2014young people in particular, including M\u0101ori and Pasifika\u2014because we, of course, are very committed to those young people leveraging off their educational opportunities and being able to define the skills that are relevant to the career pathways that they would like to be able to take. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003ESo, notwithstanding the deep scepticism that is being expressed by the Opposition members of this House, I think it is important to appreciate that Careers New Zealand, Mana Rapuara Aotearoa, is very focused on how it will help all New Zealanders, how it supports school career guidance officers, and how it works with industry training organisations, local councils, iwi and hap\u016B, and Pasifika organisations, in order that they are able to assist young people to design career pathways for themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EThere have been a number of recent achievements that I am very proud to bring to the attention of the Committee, and which will have been reported at the select committee. In July last year a Careers Summit was held, for instance, with representatives from the private and public sectors, to ensure the careers system works for both employers and individuals, and contributes to economic growth in New Zealand. A career system action plan was developed, focusing on education to employment and effective careers information, because, of course, rather than just talking about how young people can be engaged, Careers New Zealand actually provides services that support them to be able to have a real and meaningful opportunity to develop their lives. We believe in young people being self-determining rather than being dependent, unlike the Opposition members of this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003ECapable Auckland is a Careers New Zealand - led Auckland network, because, as we know, a very big proportion of the youth of New Zealand is in Auckland. It is a network of career and education professionals and industry and business people. It is a key project in the Auckland careers blueprint. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003ECareer education benchmarks: Careers New Zealand has developed innovative self-evaluation tools for schools and tertiary organisations that help young people to assess what choices they should be making as they navigate their way through our qualifications framework. Canterbury recovery: Careers New Zealand is supporting the rebuild effort, with a particular focus on matching skills with the developing labour market in Canterbury. Why is that important? It is important because we need to be boosting all levels of the employment opportunities of young people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EThe Canterbury Careers website has been launched. It provides information on available jobs in demand and the skills needed in Canterbury, with direct links to Canterbury jobs advertised in a range of places. There are 16,000 National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA) students in Canterbury who are encouraged to plan for their future, which, of course, is a fillip for them, because we all know how challenging the times have been in Canterbury, and the idea that they can also develop and progress their careers is extremely important. So, 16,000 NCEA students in Canterbury have been assisted. Careers New Zealand ensures that this support is made available in all sorts of media that young people plug into. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003ECan I also talk about how young M\u0101ori people are being assisted. Nearly 4,000 young M\u0101ori, their wh\u0101nau, and other influences have been helped to identify what skills pathway they could pursue. Te T\u016Bkirunga, which is a wh\u0101nau-focused, culture-based careers guidance model, is a flexible programme that allows young M\u0101ori to see what choices they might have, and to do it in partnership with their wh\u0101nau. That is similar to Te Kauhanganui, which the Opposition members may know is the Waikato Tainui initiative that builds skills for those young people in alignment with Waikato Tainui\u2019s navigational approach. Similarly, Pasifika young people: instead of just talking about it, this Government has gotten on and focused on how we can help those young people to be successful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d1de15be513d4ce49651582cb3d70d6c\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Qualifications Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u00226bbe23c14a1149af9a525201b938c08f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bbe23c14a1149af9a525201b938c08f\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to take a call on the New Zealand Qualifications Authority. Can I start by acknowledging the wonderful Ministers who are responsible for education, Minister Hekia Parata and Minister Joyce. They are doing an outstanding job, so I am very pleased to be chair of the Education and Science Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ECan I just say there are three core goals for the New Zealand Qualifications Authority in the future. The first one is to ensure that we have a clearer system and that we promote recognition of learner achievement, the second is to ensure that we have increased confidence in the system, and the third is to ensure that for our young people we have more portable qualifications across the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ECan I start by saying that we have to talk about the base that we started from, because we actually cannot talk about the future for the New Zealand Qualifications Authority unless we acknowledge the very difficult situation that we inherited. We had 16 and 17-year-olds dropping out of school with fewer qualifications and lower literacy. The number of degree-level graduates did not improve between 2000 and 2008, despite huge funding increases. We had low completion rates for courses, we had no incentives for tertiary institutions to improve their performance, and we had a bloated qualifications register. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EOne of the core jobs of the New Zealand Qualifications Authority in the future is about reducing this number of qualifications. In 2008 there were 6,000 qualifications in New Zealand. For a country with a working-age population of 2.2 million people, that is appalling. Under our Government there is a review. Our goal is to ensure that by 2014 the number of qualifications is down to 1,200. To give you an example, in the area of hairdressing, for instance, there were 72 qualifications. We will be getting that down to nine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWe spend $4.3 billion in tertiary education each year. If we are going to achieve the kinds of results through the New Zealand Qualifications Authority that we need to achieve, we need to do a whole lot of other things. One of those other things is improving the financial performance of universities. There are 12,000 more core tertiary places funded under our Government. We are investing more in engineering, science, and research-led learning. We have a target of 55 percent of 25 to 34-year-olds with a qualification of level 4 or above. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c7d1f10a33645f6ae52be74ee95a8f9\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Another target! Another one! Have you told John about this one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e2b78acdcbd41518542cec395dd0d2d\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE\u003C/span\u003E: The Opposition says: \u201CAnother target!\u201D, but what we know is that we are working from an appalling record under the last Labour Government, and, secondly, we also\u2014and this was mentioned by the Minister of Education\u2014have some very disadvantaged people in our country. We have, unfortunately, some very difficult issues around M\u0101ori and Pacific Island education. What we are interested in is actually having accountability, and that is what targets are about. That is why we have them. We are able to focus Crown entities and other entities such as the New Zealand Qualifications Authority and actually say: \u201CWe want accountability; we want some targets.\u201D This is not about pouring more money into the system; this is about ensuring there is clarity and there is a simpler system for New Zealanders to be able to go out across the world with decent qualifications. That is what this entity is now tasked with, unlike under the last Labour Government, where there were low completion rates and where we had 16 and 17-year-olds dropping out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EIt is also about ensuring that we know, through schemes like the Youth Guarantee, that some people do not suit classrooms. For those people we are investing more than $100 million in the Youth Guarantee scheme. Can I say that we are only able to do this with the support of Ministers like Hekia Parata and the Hon Steven Joyce, who have fought very hard in the education budget to increase our education budget every single year\u2014by $512 million over the next 4 years\u2014and that is because of the Hon Hekia Parata. It is a tribute to this Government that we are investing more than ever before in the education portfolio. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWhat we can also see is that we need to have more confidence in our private training establishments. That is why, over 4 years, there is $29.5 million to reward completion and innovation. But it is also about acknowledging that we are pouring more than many other countries into our student loan and allowances system, and that is way out of step with many other nations. I think 41 percent or 42 percent of our total tertiary budget is spent on student support. You compare that with Australia at 31 percent. If we want to get the kinds of outcomes we want for young New Zealanders in the future we have to shift funds into things like research and into things like training, not just into student support, and that has been a big focus for this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EAgain, it is about incentives in the system. So if we look at what\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f74c24dc75dc4eb2b41454b62baf3fd0\u0022\u003EChildren\u2019s Commissioner\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000736\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022914ee410c29a4a25bc4dee70322c78de\u0022\u003EFamilies Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u002291d7d795ca244233afdd8917d90a9a7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291d7d795ca244233afdd8917d90a9a7e\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I do want to talk about the Families Commission because the Government has made some moves to collapse the Families Commission and the Children\u2019s Commission together. One would think that the Opposition might have some concerns about that, but in fact what we are more concerned about is the lack of independence being shown by the Families Commissioner, under this Government. After that Families Commissioner was appointed by the Minister, Paula Bennett, suddenly we had a Families Commissioner, Mr Carl Davidson, who in one press interview rendered the Families Commission absolutely irrelevant by declaring that he was going to revoke the Families Commission\u2019s position on extending paid parental leave. This was from the Families Commissioner\u2014the man who is supposed to be putting families at the heart of what he advocates for. When it came to being asked a question about extending paid parental leave, on the back of a bill that had been drawn out in my name to do exactly that, because the Government was not prepared to back extending paid parental leave, suddenly we had a Families Commissioner who baulked at it also. He said, and I am going to quote him: \u201CI mean, wouldn\u2019t it be great if none of us had to go to work and we could just stay at home and get paid for it.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThat was from the so-called independent Families Commissioner, under this Government, who in one fell swoop I think offended pretty much every woman in the country, who knows that staying at home and looking after children actually is work. He pretty much managed to make his whole commission irrelevant to families, in one statement, all because he is working for a Government that insists that the Families Commissioner takes a position that they would want to favour. That is not the role that we should have for the independent Families Commission. The role we should have is that it should be a challenging role of the Government. It should be a role where the commissioner is prepared to stand up and fight for what families want and what families need. If that commissioner or this Government were in touch at all with the stress on working families, then they would know that extending paid parental leave is indeed something that would make a big difference to family life. At the moment, families do not get any financial support after their baby is 14 weeks old. That means that many parents are going back to work for financial reasons before they really want to and before their family is settled into the new routine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EIn 2007 the Families Commission actually did a very comprehensive evidence and research-based report, led by Dr Rajen Prasad at the time, and it was called It\u2019s about time. In that research and evidence-based report they determined that in fact paid parental leave should be extended to 12 months. Suddenly, in the year 2012, under this Government, we have the Families Commissioner feeling that he needs to say that that no longer is a priority for his commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EBut it is not the first time. He is not alone in that, actually, because strangely enough I had the opportunity to talk to the Children\u2019s Commissioner, also appointed by the Minister, Paula Bennett, recently. He is prevaricating, also, on the issue of extending paid parental leave. I have to pose the question to this House. What is the common denominator here? Both the Children\u2019s Commissioner and the Families Commissioner are supposed to be independent. Those two entities were designed and set up to be independent, to actually push the boundaries within the Government, on behalf of children and on behalf of families. Well, that now has to be the sole domain of the Labour Party, because the Families Commissioner and the Children\u2019s Commissioner are not prepared to do it in the face of that Government. The Labour Opposition is prepared to stand up for children and for families. We are at least prepared to put families and children at the centre of what we are pushing for and we will continue to perform that role, even if those commissioners will not, under the current direction of the Government. That means that there will no longer be a Families Commissioner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u00221e2ba759cc2d4913ba407bb637a5fbd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e2ba759cc2d4913ba407bb637a5fbd7\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise and speak to this debate on Crown entities and State enterprises. As a Crown entity, the Families Commission is about to undergo a transformation. The reason why it will be transformed is that this Government believes in better public services. In turbulent times, this John Key - led Government is determined to take tough but necessary steps to manage our debt, build a competitive economy, and deliver on better Government services. New Zealanders know this, and they know it because they have seen 600 more front-line police, they have seen 2,000 more nurses, and they have seen 12,000 more tertiary education places.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f58501491104547a692f8f6f9b0bd5b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I know we have had a pretty broad-ranging debate, but that just goes beyond the pale, I think. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa6be3e3af224d71aa9eb3403482f828\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I will just remind the member that we are actually on the Families Commission, so come back to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d19915505fba42cca74e5fbf43959398\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: Recognising this after the election, our confidence and supply agreement with United Future promised this positive change: \u201CThe Families Commission will have two broad functions\u2014the existing functions will be headed by a single Commissioner, and new monitoring, evaluation and research functions to drive quality services for families. In addition a Families Status Report will be developed to measure how New Zealand families are getting on, and government will re-direct $4m over four years to fund extra parenting programmes and relationship education in secondary schools.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003ESo what does this mean? Well, we are restructuring the commission, and this will see its core activities streamlined through a leaner, more focused structure. It will be headed by a single commissioner, down from the original seven. That is right: less bureaucracy in one fell swoop. However, it will be governed by a board that will include Professor Sir Peter Gluckman, as well as persons from the public sector and philanthropic and business representatives. This is about credible community input into the direction of an important entity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe commission will also take a new role, providing for independent monitoring\u2014that is right, independence\u2014evaluation, and research to measure the effectiveness of initiatives across the social sector. Funding will be reduced from $32 million over 4 years to $28 million. This will be done primarily by setting up the new Social Policy Evaluation and Research Unit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EIf we are going to make a difference in our communities for our families who are struggling, we need to be able to invest in interventions that we know will work. The body of evidence will allow policy makers, service providers, and anyone wanting to invest in those social services to make more informed decisions. It is about having evidence-based interventions that produce better long-term outcomes\u2014something the Labour Government of the 2000s clearly did not achieve through the Families Commission. It is about our families, it is about our communities, and ultimately it is about the kids in our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003ESo financially, what does it mean? Well, it means we are going to prioritise funds into areas that actually matter to New Zealanders: $4 million into the parenting programmes, relationship education, and youth mental health initiatives\u2014programmes that have actually made a difference to New Zealanders in need. I have talked about the $14 million that will be assigned to the Social Policy Evaluation and Research Unit, and it will also have $1.8 million to take over the responsibility for the longitudinal study Growing Up in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EIn summary, then, the Families Commission will remain an autonomous Crown entity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217ac5cd1dd984d48af7bbadd966f5af9\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb556787e6b642429a9b8c6e1c7a08c0\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: That is right, Mrs Moroney\u2014an autonomous Crown entity. This is significant change for the commission in terms of its structural arrangements, its work programme, its capability requirements, and its size. The commission will continue to work on issues that are important for families, just within a leaner, more focused structure. There will be an inter-agency team from the Ministry of Social Development, the State Services Commission, and the Families Commission that will oversee this transition. These changes will be due to be implemented by 1 January 2013. Finally, may I say that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a76be57556440a080a09477026971e9\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Antarctic Institute\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9587c22654b43b9b3862df4716f53a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9587c22654b43b9b3862df4716f53a3\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak on this part of this evening\u2019s deliberation. I have got to say that most New Zealanders do not know too much about what goes on down in the Antarctic, except that, as our colleague across the floor said, it is cold. You have got to believe that. But there are some really interesting things that I would like to draw to the community\u2019s attention\u2014the wider New Zealand community, that is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Antarctic Institute was established, I think, in about 1996, and its purpose is to develop, manage, and protect New Zealand\u2019s interests in the Antarctic, in the Southern Ocean, and particularly in the Ross Sea region. It provides a lot of support for scientific research and conservation activities, and it has a job to raise public awareness of the efforts it is making in that part of the world. I have to say that I have now been in this Parliament for 7 years, and I have listened to Lou Sanson, the chief executive officer, and, more recently, Rob Fenwick, the chair of the Antarctic Institute, and consistently, this pair perform at a very, very high standard. They are very, very good people. They are a credit to our country. They run their books well\u2014unmodified audit opinion\u2014and they have very, very good information and control systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EOne of the big developments over the last year has been\u2014and particularly supporting our Government\u2019s emphasis on environmental issues\u2014the Government funding the development and installation of three 330 kilowatt wind-powered turbines, which actually deliver more power per turbine than any other installation on the planet. They are performing at 140 percent of what they were expected to deliver, so that is pretty good. If we put in another four turbines, we will be able to support the Americans at their base just along the way from us, at McMurdo. That is hugely good for the planet. You have no carbon emissions, etc., but, more important, you have no waste and no risk of causing damage through some sort of oil leakage. I think the environmental stewardship of this programme is particularly good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229558cf56df8e4ba29332ea73006fc57e\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Who made them? Who project-managed it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022875fab3a95d444d2b09e10408b7d945f\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: Nobody in your electorate, that is for sure. I think there is an international component that we also have to keep in mind here, because we are operating in the Antarctic in partnership with other countries. The institute helped Malaysia to accede to the Antarctic Treaty in October of last year, and we had a very big issue that the institute managed to cope with in respect of encouraging Korea to set up its base very close to our own but also to use Lyttelton as the key point of entry. One of the issues was that we did not at that point have the right sort of diesel fuel to run a ship down into the Antarctic. That problem got solved, thanks to our institute. We have also had a very good donation in the last year from the Norwegian Prime Minister, who provided $900,000 to the Antarctic Heritage Trust. All of these things are happening because we are running a really good operation down in the Antarctic, and, again, I congratulate the management and the staff of the institute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EOf course, the closest relationship we have down there on the ice is with the United States Antarctic Program. Our people are working very closely with the Americans on logistical arrangements, and I want to thank the Minister of Defence, who is sitting here in the House tonight, for making available a 757 as part of our overall contribution to joint logistics with the Americans. The Americans have had a bit of difficulty over the last year because they lost an ice-breaker and an ice pier, and they have had to ship in a floating pontoon system into the area. So working with them helps rationalise the logistical arrangements for the difficult job of getting people from Christchurch down into the Antarctic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ebf7f2338314167aad878483a893039\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: The Antarctic\u2019s exciting. Don\u2019t make it boring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c458dadcfc414a74a718bbfaad721043\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and I can think of some lovely people I would like to send down to the Antarctic and leave there to permanently freeze, to become exhibits for future polar explorers. With those words, I have nothing further to say and will end. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d89ed8160ec74bf8a0176fc1ad8e610b\u0022\u003EEnergy Efficiency and Conservation Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4daddd7afe146de820c4804a313d6f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4daddd7afe146de820c4804a313d6f2\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chair. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. I rise to take a call on the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority. I want to talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly in this Crown entity, but first I would like to acknowledge former Green Party co-leader Jeanette Fitzsimons. In 2000 it was Jeanette\u2019s Energy Efficiency and Conservation Bill, a member\u2019s bill, which passed into law the first ever piece of legislation in our country\u2019s history to explicitly address climate change. Although we are having huge debates across the country about electricity production, what we often forget is that the most effective way we could be reducing the need for electricity production is simply to use the electricity we have already, just more efficiently. We would like to acknowledge all the hard work done by those Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority officials. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI will begin with the good. It is good to be working with the Government through a memorandum of understanding on the Warm Up New Zealand: Heat Smart programme. This $347 million budget has recently been extended, increasing the amount of homes we are going to insulate to 230,000. This is actually massive. It is making a real difference to New Zealand families, a real difference to kids\u2019 health, and a real difference to the economy. I note that the economic benefits have recently been estimated at $1.2 billion. From those 150,000 homes that have been done to date, if you laid the batt end on end across the country it would stretch from Auckland to Invercargill, back to Auckland, and then some. So it is a huge victory. It is good to be working with the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EBut now I guess it is important to touch on the bad in this Crown entity as well. In Budget 2012 we saw two very important Budget lines cut under the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority. The first was the biofuel subsidies. This Government drastically changed the good mandate scheme that the Labour Government formerly had, and put in a woefully inadequate subsidy, in the Biodiesel Grants Scheme, of 50c. It was absolutely inadequate. The take-up was pitifully poor, and now the Government has scrapped it. We can only hope that the Government now returns to a mandatory scheme, if it actually wants to see biofuels being used in New Zealand. It is a huge issue, because, look, we are importing $8 billion in oil from some pretty unsavoury countries around the world. It is a huge strategic economic risk, but the Government is not doing anything about it. It is scrapping the biofuel grant. It is not doing enough to promote electric vehicles. It is definitely not doing enough for public transport. New Zealand could actually be self-sustainable in liquid fuels and other transport fuels, using sustainable biofuels from wood waste, other agricultural by-products, electric vehicles, and a greater investment in public transport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe other bad in the Budget was the scrapping of the solar hot-water grants scheme\u2014again, a scheme that was doing a pretty good job. We would have liked to actually see it enhanced. We should have seen the scheme enhanced to include photovoltaic solar panels. They have dropped about 50 percent in price in the last 18 months. We could be producing a huge amount of electricity from the energy wastage just hitting our roofs, if the Government support included maybe a grants scheme, supported with low-interest loans, and maybe helped facilitate a council rates payback scheme, which has worked pretty effectively in Nelson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EAnd then you have got the ugly. We have seen the good, we have seen the bad, and now the ugly. The Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority is struggling, because the Government\u2019s entire focus when it comes to energy issues\u2014and you just need to look at the Energy Strategy\u2014is to \u201Cdrill it, mine it, frack it\u201D. It is the only plan the Government has got. In fact, the Minister for Climate Change Issues last week, in response to my questions, said deliberately he wants to stimulate the risky, deep-sea oil industry, despite what we know. There are going to be hardly any jobs for New Zealanders, hardly any taxes, hardly any royalties, and the profits are going to go offshore. So instead of a Crown petroleum and minerals agency, why does this Government not consider a Crown renewable energy agency, maybe under the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Agency\u2014it is doing some pretty good work in conservation. Why do we not have a Government department that is actually focusing on rolling out renewable energy? We could be building tens of thousands of green jobs. We could actually be boosting the economy in a sustainable fashion. We could actually be leveraging our advantages. Just look at the Pure Advantage report about a $6 trillion dollar industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab423a1411c5494b847f9d64bdb8c75a\u0022\u003EHon Chris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve got the second-most amount of renewable energy levels in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb25618080894913ae77a6cc90b8aca6\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Yep, we are getting there, but what we are seeing under this Government is all the focus not on getting it to 90 percent\u2014which is its target. It is another one of the National Government\u2019s targets, but it is one that it is doing nothing about achieving. Instead, it is sitting on its hands, subsidising the oil industry, subsidising the carbon polluters\u2014$1.5 billion in the emissions trading scheme in the last financial year. So we see this Government sitting on its hands, but actively promoting risky deep-sea drilling. The sad thing is we are missing that green race, which Pure Advantage pointed to. We could be doing so much better\u2014not only making our kids healthier through a good insulation scheme but also providing prosperity and lifting them out of poverty. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002288fde81f33994c66921a706dd1327366\u0022\u003ECommerce Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0b018c9f4ec4d3ba0ebb79e3b152c14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0b018c9f4ec4d3ba0ebb79e3b152c14\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS (Minister of Commerce):\u003C/span\u003E I am speaking on the Commerce Commission vote, which is a very, very important vote and Crown entity, indeed. I do note and acknowledge that the Commerce Committee may, in fact, have missed on page 5 of the report a slight mistake there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe Commerce Commission plays an essential part in the monitoring and enforcing of a very, very important part of the regulatory regime across New Zealand. Part 4 of the Commerce Act obviously gets a lot of attention in the way that it has played out in courts, and merits reviews and inputs reviews, etc. I do note that, and the committee did talk about that, plus some other matters, in its report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EOne of the facets of New Zealand being a small economy is that in some instances where there are one or two large players they can, potentially, exploit their dominant position or monopoly-type position, or perhaps drive monopoly rents. Of course, that is not acceptable to anyone at all\u2014at least, I am sure, not to most members in this Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E One of the harder parts about the commission\u2019s vote is that there is an estimate there in its outputs and deliverables, but it is actually very hard to estimate the time frames under which judicial processes do happen. So that does create difficulties for that vote and can provide, perhaps, uncertainty out there in the commercial space. It can allow so much for judicial reviews, judicial processes, or testing in court, and then a review can happen, so these may well cross over into new financial years. There can be difficulties there, but I do acknowledge that the commission is doing a very good job, and the committee generally noted that in its report here before the Committee of the whole House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EOne point in the report that the committee noted is that it did ask the commission about issues around convergence, particularly in and around broadcasting. I think that was pretty wise of the committee, because of the challenges of all things governance. In fact, as mentioned here in the report on the Commerce Commission, to put it in a simple way, that bit of glass in our lounges that we all traditionally call the TV or the television is actually only a bit of glass. Although we all probably call it a TV, it can now receive data or content traditionally by analog signal, although that is switching off across the country over the next 18 months; by digital\u2014as DTT, or digital terrestrial television\u2014by satellite; or by cable in some instances. In fact, many TVs now come with either a Wi-Fi or an ethernet enabler. Additions can be put on; other little modules can be put on. The simple message there is the challenges for organisations and entities such as the Commerce Commission in broadcasting, you name it, having to deal with a rapidly changing digital environment under which content can now be delivered by many means that were not even contemplated when much of the legislation\u2014be it commerce-type legislation or even broadcasting-type legislation\u2014was put together, thought of, and voted upon with, I am sure, the best of intentions around this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI do note again that the Commerce Committee talks about this on page 171, but I make the point that we just have to make sure that we maintain flexibility, and perhaps be platform-neutral, as within this Parliament here we devise regulatory regimes and models that entities like the Commerce Commission look after. There is also the example that a person can now read on a tablet or an iPad things off the internet, they can listen to the radio, they can watch TV, or they can watch a movie, and all of those can be from either within New Zealand or afar. They can be live, recorded, sped up, or slowed down as the user wants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EMy point is that with regard to much of the rules and regulations that entities like the Commerce Commission have to look after, we may actually have to have a look at some of these models, simply because technology and the real world, if you like, are moving at such a fast pace that there are grey areas\u2014which the committee did start to have a look at here\u2014of where governance is black and white and where it is grey. Of course, there are sovereignty issues around things that ultra-fast broadband brings upon our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f025fc1e411d497ba2f67efca9d93d6c\u0022\u003ERetirement Commissioner\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u00229d3b34e0210342f0b37830e03dcec723\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d3b34e0210342f0b37830e03dcec723\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the financial review of the Retirement Commissioner. It is a very interesting report from the Social Services Committee, particularly given the debates that we have in front of us right now around superannuation and the issues that face our country in terms of how we are going to be able to afford superannuation for future generations. It is very disappointing that we have not been able to reach any sort of agreement on this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120626b6c7888838e2499a80e675ac0be9d155000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa3ccf1d69304a81a3bb1c0ca850877f\u0022\u003ETuesday, 26 June 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002218fa9f6ebf204afb8b4b0e9f8cfbd379\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 27 June 2012)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d5b072abe454337aca189e85c25e2b8\u0022\u003EDebate on Crown Entities, Public Organisations, and State Enterprises\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220212e5986960436bb5297552dbd3b8c4\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ca3f4000f52543e1b5f5b87588cd38c1\u0022\u003ERetirement Commissioner (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u002222b074069b09494ab784b9e165e06e83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222b074069b09494ab784b9e165e06e83\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As I was saying last night, New Zealand superannuation is important for future generations. We have to act now to ensure that we have universal superannuation for our children and our children\u2019s children. The thing that guides Labour\u2019s debate on this is fairness and sustainability. First of all, it must be sustainable so that we can say to our children and grandchildren that there will be a universal superannuation scheme in the future. Quite frankly, many young people do not believe there will be. They simply do not believe that superannuation is going to be around when they are older, and Labour does not think that is right. We think it is only fair that our kids enjoy the same opportunities that we have available to us. I hope that in the future every member in this House, including John Key, will be able to look their kids and their children\u2019s children in the eye and say: \u201CWe did everything possible to make sure that the principle of universal superannuation was available for all of our kids in the future.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe other principle guiding the debate on this is fairness. We want to make sure that people in the future are able to access superannuation when they need to. One of the discussions that Labour has been having is about how you make sure, if we have to raise the age, manual workers and others who may need to access superannuation earlier actually are able to do that. We believe that by gradually lifting the age over a reasonable period of time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022917cc62b403c4bcfbedb488bff15134e\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: What to? 75?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8755697674343efbf49390097872bde\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014we can protect and preserve New Zealand superannuation. Well, that member would not have long to wait, actually, if it were 75. If we do not act, it will become unaffordable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWe are very, very disappointed in the response from the Government. John Key, as usual, has wavered all over the place on this. In 2004 he was saying: \u201CWell, actually, lifting the retirement age is a sensible thing to do. And if we lift it in 20 years\u2019 time, will that be a big deal?\u201D. When we propose it now, of course, he says that there is no need to raise the age of entitlement for New Zealand superannuation. I think he has his head in the sand, and I think the Government has its head in the sand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EEverybody is saying that this superannuation scheme at age 65 is unsustainable. In just 4 years\u2019 time we will be spending the same amount on New Zealand superannuation as we will on education. That is early childhood education, primary education, secondary education, and tertiary education combined\u2014$12.4 billion. You can understand why young people are saying that this is not fair. At the moment we have 5.6 people working to pay taxes to support each superannuitant. In 40 years\u2019 time there will be only 2.4 people to support every superannuitant. The cost of New Zealand superannuation is going to double over the next 40 years as the baby boomers retire. Our life expectancy is increasing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThis is a conversation we need to have. We are open to considering all good ideas from all parties that will create a fair and sustainable scheme into the future. If we do not tackle this tough issue now on our own terms, it will be forced on us later. As I said, I do not want to, and I am sure John Key does not want to, look his children and grandchildren in the eye and say that we did not do everything possible to ensure that they enjoy the same benefits that we will as we retire. In fact, I was imagining last night John Key sitting in a rest home some time in the future, probably being staffed by\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a36d1ced98e34e368db8ad3a16e99ee7\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: In Hawaii.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273e0ee144e0045f29a297cda8106403b\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in Hawaii\u2014by poor Filipino migrants, because the Government refuses to do anything about lifting the standards and the pay for aged-care workers, and his grandchildren saying to him: \u201CGrandad, grandad, why didn\u2019t you do anything? We can\u2019t get superannuation now. Why didn\u2019t you do anything?\u201D. I would be very interested to know what his answer will be. John Key has a responsibility to act on this, and to act on it now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u00229a2606db14f246c18d09571577ac902b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a2606db14f246c18d09571577ac902b\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I can tell you what John Key has said. He said that he would resign before putting up the retirement age. Now, that is a good idea. That is one good idea that the Government has come up with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ad0c8c966a34d0a8f92a1bd959fe431\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Did you make that up yourself, David\u2014that line? Did you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211032be63d99421287a0cb12bcdb177d\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: That is what your leader has been saying, Mr Guy. That is what your leader has been saying. I think you should hold his feet to the fire, my friend. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThe important point about this debate is that the Retirement Commissioner has actually come out and said that if you do not do something about superannuation, you have simply got your head in the sand. Therefore, this Government has got its head in the sand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThe bottom line here is that when I go around and talk to young people\u2014people in their 20s, but certainly people in their 30s and 40s\u2014they honestly do not believe that superannuation will be there when they get to the point of retirement. They think that the people who are around today will have pulled up that ladder, and they will be having to fend for themselves. The statistics, the maths, and just about every reputable organisation has come out and said that if we do not do something about it soon, that is exactly what will happen. There will be 2.4 people in work for every one superannuitant in 30 years\u2019 time. Those people in work cannot possibly look after their own health and education, and the superannuation for people who need superannuation. We need to do something about it now, and that is exactly what the Retirement Commissioner has been talking about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EIt is about lifting the age, but it is about doing it fairly. We need fairness in three areas: fairness so that we do not disadvantage our young people today and that we give them exactly the same opportunities that we enjoyed in the past, fairness so that those people who cannot work to 67, because they are in manual jobs and are unable to work to 67, are treated fairly, and fairness\u2014and this is what I think is going to happen\u2014around the ability of people to plan into the future. If you do not give people that ability, what is going to happen is that they will have this foisted upon them, because suddenly we will not be able to afford to continue as we are today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton mentioned the statistic about education. In 3 years\u2019 time, superannuation will exceed our entire education budget\u2014our entire education budget\u2014and it just gets worse and worse from there on in. The superannuation budget is going up like this, and education will be staying flat. So this Government putting its head in the sand, and John Key\u2019s saying he would resign before putting up the retirement age, is simply just closing off options and not being responsible about where New Zealand has to plan and where it has to go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EWhat we have said that we will do is we will sit down with any party and talk about this issue right across the Parliament and right across New Zealand society because this is too big an issue to be politicking about. But I can tell you what, we will be putting the pressure on this Government to actually realise what it is doing by ignoring the statistics and the time bomb that awaits us if we do not do something about this. We will sit down and talk about it, but we are not going to take our eye off the ball in terms of making the responsible decisions\u2014the responsible decisions\u2014for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThis is an issue that affects us all. It affects those people who are about to go into retirement. It affects those people who are being born today\u2014or my kids, who are going to have to foot the bill for my retirement into the future. And I do not think it is fair. I do not think it is fair that they are going to have to foot the bill at the same time as pay for their education, pay for their health\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fcae3892aae4ef4ad5d60b9db7fd8db\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: Save up. Buy some shares.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c400686d5dd44a89af24d169b80d54f8\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: You can argue and yell all you like on the other side, but you know\u2014sorry, Mr Speaker\u2014that party knows that it cannot ignore this issue. The IMF, the OECD, Treasury\u2014just about every single reputable organisation around the world recognises this. We see Australia, the UK, the US, and most of the OECD lifting their retirement ages to 67 because they know that it is the responsible thing to do, and this Government should realise it, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002269281a1cf1864088b5c46eeec9d092bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269281a1cf1864088b5c46eeec9d092bf\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is seldom that you see a Government so willing to treat people like fools\u2014treat them as if they have got no idea and no common sense. During that speech from David Shearer, when he was saying that we are going to have trouble meeting the future cost of superannuation if we do not raise the age of entitlement, Maggie Barry interjected: \u201CBuy some shares, buy some shares.\u201D \u201CBuy some shares.\u201D she said, which was a reference to the State-owned enterprises share sales at the moment. This Government is just treating people like fools. It is out of touch. Imagine\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae739b27ad304ceea6e1ba4599bc3a3d\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Let them eat cake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c017530e93914690a0709dca212016f3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Let them eat cake\u2014that is right. \u201CLet them eat cake.\u201D, Mr Twyford says.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c47f9623d4b4f7baccb9244eb9cd0df\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CQueen Margaret\u201D\u2014\u201CQueen Margaret\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249bcede07c4c43309f8c2b4ea8b064cd\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! \u201CQueen Margaret\u201D. About 2 years ago the office of the Retirement Commissioner said that we needed to move on the age of eligibility for superannuation, and the Labour Party looked at it. We took it seriously. Phil Goff encouraged us to take the hard decision that needed to be taken\u2014not politically popular, but the right decision for our country. It is really important to the people whom the Labour Party represents, because our people\u2014more than John Key\u2014need to have the security of superannuation being available to them in the future. Our people, by and large, do not have much income in retirement other than their superannuation, and, for us, maintaining the sustainability of superannuation is absolutely important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe have the Government this week again throwing pixie dust around, trying to divert people from the real decisions that need to be taken by a responsible Government. This is the week that we have had the Government in trouble on asset sales. That legislation passed by one vote\u2014with Peter Dunne\u2019s vote\u2014in the House. That is deeply unpopular in the country and it is no coincidence that the Government brings out targets for the Public Service. But they are not meaningful targets, because they do not address the important issues. There is no target for addressing the age of eligibility for superannuation\u2014no target at all. There are targets there that relate to reducing violent crime within a period of time and reducing welfare numbers within a period of time. There are no policies to back them up, but the Government is very willing to promise a rainbow at the end of every street\u2014fictions that it takes to the public\u2014but produce no accountability for itself for the really important decisions that need to be taken, like the age of eligibility for superannuation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E There is no principle lying behind the decision making of this Government, as is evidenced by the fact that everyone except National members, it seems, knows that we need to do something on the age of eligibility for superannuation, but they refuse to acknowledge that reality. They instead throw diversions. Other diversions have been thrown recently when they are in trouble. They have said: \u201CWe will have legislation for boat people.\u201D It is already a crime to come into New Zealand that way and there are no boats on the way, but they throw that in as a diversionary tactic. Then when it is in trouble on teachers and class sizes, they throw another one. They say: \u201CLook, we will look at compulsory sterilisation for beneficiaries.\u201D, which is another attempt to divert the attention of the public from them not addressing the big issues. It is not working with the media. The media are seeing through this, and I congratulate the media on doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENational is not addressing these big decisions. As we have already heard, not only does the cost of superannuation exceed the total spend on education within about 4 years, but also it is about 20 times the unemployment benefit. So the Government produces a target for beneficiaries, and yet it has got 20 times the cost, or close to it, in respect of superannuation. Superannuation very soon exceeds the cost of all benefits: unemployment benefit, domestic purposes benefit, invalids benefit, and sickness benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESuperannuation is not a benefit, but it is a transfer payment and it is a cost that comes from taxes, and the Government\u2019s refusing to move on this just makes a nonsense of its pretence to be serious about controlling cost centres for the Government. So it cannot claim any moral authority when it comes to these other areas of expenditure, because it is ignoring the bigger issue that relates to the rising cost of superannuation. We need to give proper notice. We need to have fair transitional arrangements for people who are worn out by age 65 because of manual work. That is the discussion we should be having, not the discussion as to whether there is any need to move, at all. The Retirement Commissioner is to be congratulated on her work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7cc41824fe64546bef3903985ef5bda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7cc41824fe64546bef3903985ef5bda\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I want to join my colleagues who have spoken in this debate by congratulating the Retirement Commissioner on consistently raising the issue of New Zealand superannuation into the future. The question that I was hoping the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Internal Affairs, might answer was this: how can we look New Zealanders in the eye and say that when they reach the age of retirement they will have a secure income that gives them the opportunity to live in dignity in our community? How can we say that they will not have to downsize, they will not have to live in a poor state of health, they will not have to live with poor housing conditions, and they will be able to live with security and dignity? The way to do that is to ensure now that we have a fair and sustainable New Zealand superannuation scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThat is the big challenge for New Zealand. That is the challenge the Retirement Commissioner has consistently put on the table for this Parliament to address, and what the National Government has done\u2014and John Key in particular\u2014is bury its head in the sand and say: \u201CThis is too hard. It might not be popular. We\u2019re going to hope the issue just goes away.\u201D In fact, John Key went so far as to say that he would resign rather than face up to the issue. Like my colleague David Shearer said, I think it is a jolly good suggestion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWe want to ensure, not just for our generation but for our children\u2019s and grandchildren\u2019s generations, and their children and grandchildren, that they have security and dignity in their retirement years. We know already that a lot of young New Zealanders just do not believe that there will be a superannuation scheme for them in the future. That is really unacceptable. Our young people, particularly those who are on low incomes who are putting away their bit of money into KiwiSaver, hoping to be able to buy their first house, but who do not have a lot of discretionary spend\u2014the people on lower incomes who work as hard as they possibly can and contribute so well to our society, to their families, and to our communities\u2014deserve the dignity of a secure retirement income, as well. It is not good enough in the civilised society that we espouse to have in New Zealand that only the rich people in our society, only people who are on very high incomes, will have security and dignity in retirement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe reason this issue is so important is that, like every other country, we will have a higher percentage of people who are drawing on superannuation and a lower percentage of the population who are of working age and paying taxes to fund that superannuation. So that is the issue that we need to address. We know from OECD reports that we are an outlier on this issue: 28 of 34 OECD countries are planning to increase the age of entitlement for superannuation. New Zealand is out on its own in not facing up to this being one of the options that we need to address. The IMF says that our superannuation spending will increase in net present terms by 66 percent of GDP. That is a huge increase. Where does the money come from to fund future superannuation needs? Mercer says that if we increase the age of eligibility for superannuation by 2 years, that would make a difference of $100 billion over a 30-year period. That is a massive amount of money, and if you do it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022a51374b3024e450583b0482704e47c9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a51374b3024e450583b0482704e47c9b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The debate on the performance of the 2010-11 and current operations of Crown entities, public organisations, and State enterprises has concluded. I shall report this debate to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223f5637cf82d74b84ba20e3075e3610eb\u0022\u003EImprest Supply (First for 2012/13) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb68e62fc66a4d3a9124c45c7d8b7fbc\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00221097246e1d324be98a0103c5464ab711\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221097246e1d324be98a0103c5464ab711\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Imprest Supply (First for 2012/13) Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226298ad68c20a487bb2c03296bbdda6e0\u0022\u003ESupplementary Estimates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d3a40c3fdd4d4e7d895bc8a55848e71f\u0022\u003EImprest Supply Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225a2df2b2afe5480787e9ba1ac0667411\u0022\u003EImprest Supply Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002217b632ccaa3c4aba8b9be14ff5661a3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217b632ccaa3c4aba8b9be14ff5661a3a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Appropriation (2011/12 Supplementary Estimates) Bill and the Imprest Supply (First for 2012/13) Bill be now read a second time. This supplementary estimates legislation carries on in the same tone as Budget 2012, with more sensible fiscal management in difficult times. It is another means by which the Government can continue on the path to getting better results for public services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIt was fascinating to see over the last couple of days how the political Opposition reacted to the Government announcing 10 results that it is going to be chasing for better public services. I think it was described by one prominent Labour member as pretty well all meaningless stuff\u2014pretty well all meaningless stuff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b60960602ce54b3f8c269b8769e21304\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Parker did the same thing this morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b2445c320c440ba9e5ee58321b16939\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, did Mr Parker do the same this morning? \u201CPretty well all meaningless stuff.\u201D Actually, for the Labour Party, it is. Getting results is exactly what it does not want, because getting results means smaller government. Imagine if more teenagers stayed on the rails and did not get in trouble. That might mean, perhaps, fewer social workers. It might mean a smaller Government department somewhere. Of course, in the Labour Party\u2019s world that is failure. It is failure. If you end up with smaller government because the community is working better, then that is a failure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party now represents only one thing, and that is the industrial interests of some parts of the public sector. That is it. In our interaction with those people who are providing public services, more and more of them do not want to be represented by the Labour Party, because those people on the front line want to get results, and the Labour Party does not. More and more public servants now understand that, and some of their traditional allegiances are therefore weakening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis Government is determined to pursue the notion of getting results, and in this context can I compliment the Prime Minister. He is the first Prime Minister I can recall who has been willing to go out in public and say: \u201CHere are 10 things we want to achieve for public services.\u201D, and say exactly what they are. I do not think\u2014well, I know that the previous Labour Prime Minister did not do that. She did not do it. She never actually went out and said: \u201CHere are 10 things we want to do better.\u201D That is actually a much more difficult thing than going out to say: \u201CHere are 10 things. We have got more money, and we are going to spend it on them\u201D, which is what usually happens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party says: \u201CYou know we care, because we got another $30 million.\u201D Well, if that worked, why, after a decade of a Labour Government with more money than it knew what to do with, did we end up with worse intractable social problems at the end of that decade than we had at the start? I mean, that is the measure of it. Why were crime rates worse at the end of that decade than at the start of it? Why was long-term welfare dependency worse despite the best economic decade the whole world had had in two generations? Why was long-term welfare dependency worse at the end of that decade? The reason is that you can spend endless money on these things and show you have got more public servants to do it, but if you do not focus on getting results, and adapt when you discover that the programme is not working, then you are not going to get results; you are just going to spend an awful lot of money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221334eefff09d44b387173a3b7957c40a\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Give us some results. Give us 4 years of results.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022560c2ef040104fc0b01c1e3759c495b8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I will tell the member one very good result. For the first time in a generation we are going to close some prisons. There is nothing that saves money like closing prisons. Look, I know it means fewer prison officers. I know that is a failure! It means fewer prison officers, which means fewer members of the prison officer union paying their fees to the Labour Party. We think that is unfortunate for the prison officers, and we are going to try to get them jobs elsewhere. But it is not worth keeping a prison open to employ the prison officers. That is the difference between the National Party and the Labour Party. Labour would rather keep the prison to keep employing the prison officers. We would rather have fewer prisoners reoffending, and close the prison. It is pretty straightforward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAnd we would rather have some performance in our public services. If we take the justice and the law and order areas, the Government has negotiated a world-leading contract with, I think, the consortium that is going to run Wiri Prison, which focuses on reducing reoffending. Along with another example, immunisation rates, these are things Governments have talked about for years without making any appreciable progress and without making any real difference. So the kinds of results that the Government announced the other day are not new. It is not as if these are a different set of aspirations from what has been articulated by Governments for decades. The difference is that we are taking it seriously. We are going to put these results into the performance expectations of public sector chief executives. We are going to have real-time, total transparency for the public to examine whether we are making progress on these results, and we are going to put ourselves to the test. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWe would hope\u2014and I would guess, actually\u2014that the Labour Party is interested in reducing the number of assaults on children. In fact, I know it is\u2014I take it for granted. But I hope it will support the changes that go with that. I suspect that it will not do that. I suspect that those members will say: \u201CWe want to reduce the number of assaults on children, but if you do anything different with social services, that\u2019s bad. That\u2019s the mean, nasty National Government.\u201D Well, actually, I think the public has moved on\u2014well ahead of the Labour Party. The public accept that in order to get results we will need to change things. In fact, we have been changing things. In the last Budget there are $4.5 billion of new initiatives funded from $3 billion of savings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe best things for fiscal policy are the things that are the right results for the community: a teenager who stays on the rails, a prisoner who does not reoffend, a vulnerable child who is not assaulted. That is how we save money, and this Government has set store by getting better results in order to get back to surplus, not by going around cutting services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThat fits in the broader picture of an economy where we have to focus strongly on competitiveness and on productivity. The world is making it harder to rebalance this economy away from consumption and debt and towards investment and savings and a highly productive export sector, but that does not mean we are going to stop trying. In fact, what it means is that we are going to have to try even harder, because if people want higher incomes and more jobs and more job security, then we need to have a steadily growing economy. The supplementary estimates are being delivered in the context of more dark clouds on the horizon around the world. It is our view that by taking considered and consistent decisions about both our fiscal progress in getting to surplus and our drive for productivity and competitiveness, New Zealanders can look forward to moderate growth that will help underpin their job security and give them the opportunity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022497f0895fef7481591e087c3e748ab75\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. His time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022bff1fe95d4b64c7ba7a7136c522a3be0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bff1fe95d4b64c7ba7a7136c522a3be0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E What a load of bollocks that was in respect of targets! Bill English said we in the Labour Party criticise those targets. Well, we sure do, because here we have got the National members out there again sprinkling fairy dust, promising accountability in 2017, and not acknowledging any accountability until now for their failures on so many fronts. We have them saying: \u201CLook, we\u2019re going to decrease violent crime by 20 percent by 2016 or 2017.\u201D We all want violent crime down. It has actually been going up in New Zealand under this Government. More particularly, overall crime has been going up in parts of Auckland, which is suffering the results most severely of the economic deprivation caused by this Government\u2019s policies. Then Government members come along and say: \u201CLook, we want violent crime to go down.\u201D, and then say that that is a result. That is what Bill English said then. The results they announced earlier in the week were that they were going to have a target in 2016. That is a result under the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhat is missing from those targets, while we are talking about these targets? Well, there are no targets around the sustainability of superannuation. Nothing. Nothing. There is no target or milestone around closing the wage gap with Australia. Remember that promise? The National Party in the 2008 election said that it would close the wage gap with Australia. Has it? No. Has it agreed any milestones? No. Has it got any target for that in these Better Public Services targets? No, it has not. National members say that targets and milestones are important for accountability of the Public Service, but not if it affects them. They do not want accountability for the measures that they promised that they would achieve, because they know that they are failing to achieve them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIt is not just the wage gap with Australia. What about this promised step change in the economy? Well, you know, the other thing I was surprised about in that speech we just had from Bill English was that he virtually did not talk about the economy. At the end he said: \u201CLook, there are problems in the world and therefore it\u2019s tough in New Zealand.\u201D Again, we all know that there are problems in the world. No one expects the Government to magic away those problems, but 1,000 people a week for the last year have not gone to Australia because of the problems in Greece; they have gone to Australia because of the problems in New Zealand, and those problems are not being addressed by the National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe Budget does nothing to improve New Zealand\u2019s export performance\u2014nothing, nothing at all to improve New Zealand\u2019s export performance. New Zealand has now run a current account deficit for every year in more than three decades. New Zealand\u2019s credit rating, which National members said would never drop under them, was dropped by Standard and Poor\u2019s and some of the other rating agencies last year because of our external liabilities, our net liabilities to the world\u2014not the Government\u2019s liabilities to the world, because the last Labour Government ran Budget surpluses, and we reduced Government debt to amongst the lowest in the world. Even now, after 4 years of this Government, after the challenges of an earthquake, because Michael Cullen, Helen Clark, and her Governments put money away in a time of plenty\u2014Budget surpluses that were opposed by Bill English, Don Brash, and John Key\u2014and because Labour did that, even now, after 4 years of deficits under the National Government, New Zealand still has low levels of Government debt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EBut we have got high levels of private debt, and it gets worse from here. Every year that you have a current account deficit, that deficit is bridged by either borrowing more money from overseas or selling your assets to overseas. This Government oversees both of those, and has got no plan at all in this Budget to turn it round. As a consequence, we have Standard and Poor\u2019s saying that the biggest risk for New Zealand is our external deficit\u2014the fact that the value of our exports does not cover the cost of our imports and our interest. Every year from here it gets worse. Treasury has it going out to 6 percent of GDP\u2014or 6.8 percent of GDP, I think it is\u2014by 2016. The Reserve Bank says it is a problem, the OECD says it is a problem, and the IMF says it is a problem, but National ignores it. That is what this Budget is: it is a zero ideas Budget in respect of the big issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhat are the other things we have had in this Budget that are touched upon by the supplementary estimates? Larger class sizes. Larger class sizes is the way to improve educational outcomes, which we all\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022485f652bd94342b2bc6ad9b19a5c3b99\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: But not for their kids. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233c62737ba0d49ff8fade4c0909f33da\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, not for their kids\u2014that is right. In fact, the media disclosed the fact that a large proportion of the National Cabinet Ministers have their kids in private schools that sell their attributes to people on the basis of smaller class sizes than they can get in the State sector already. New Zealanders rebelled against that because they did not like it. Now the Government is trying to fool them by pulling the wool over their eyes by saying that it does not need to address some of these difficult issues like our export performance, like the age of eligibility for superannuation, like our need to save more through improvements to the KiwiSaver scheme, and like some more investment into the export sector by introducing a capital gains tax so that people invest in businesses on the basis of the profitability of those businesses rather than the tax bias that currently favours investment in property to the detriment of our export sector. Those are the sorts of measures that we ought to be debating today, but we do not hear one word of them from the Minister of Finance. We have these pixie dust, rainbow at the end of every street promises by National, but no way to get there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EEven National\u2019s objective in respect of the number of people dependent on working-age benefits has as its target a higher figure than it was when it took office. Is that not abject failure? We had Bill English saying that we did nothing to reduce long-term benefit dependency. We actually had New Zealand\u2019s unemployment down to the lowest in the world. There were about 2 years when we swapped with South Korea. It was South Korea and New Zealand who had the lowest rate of unemployment in that year. We had domestic purposes benefits down as well. We had the DPB numbers down as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe had crime dropping across the country, in no small part because we had a buoyant economy, people had hope in their lives, and they were adhering to the social mores of our country because they had a sense of hope and participation in our community. When you have increasing numbers of people who do not have hope, then they ignore the rules in society more often. It is no excuse, from my perspective, but it is a reality that when you have poor economic performance you have increasing crime rates. Bill English denies that, as his predecessors did in prior National Governments, but whenever you have the economy going better you do also get drops in the rate of crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EGrowth in the economy, growth in jobs, growth in exports, and growth in income are what we needed from this Budget, and we have not got any of them. This Budget forecasts very, very mediocre growth\u2014very mediocre growth. Even since the global financial crisis, outside of Europe average growth rates have been far higher than we have achieved in New Zealand. That is despite the fact that our two largest trading partners, Australia and China, have been the most prosperous economies in the world. And yet New Zealand has been in the doldrums. This Budget does not show any advance upon it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E I think it says a lot about the National Government that the biggest part of its economic agenda these 3 years is to change who owns what already exists. That is what is happening with these State-owned enterprise sales. That is the biggest part of its economic plan. Not only does it increase the Government deficit by $100 million per annum, not only does it increase our current account deficit overseas, and not only does it increase power prices to domestic consumers, but also these asset sales disclose how empty the cupboard is when it comes to important economic changes being brought about by this Government. The central part of the Government\u2019s economic plan for these 3 years is to sell off those State-owned enterprises, and we on this side of the House know that changing who owns what already exists does nothing to improve our economy. We do not get any more exports out of it. We do not get any more jobs out of it. We do not get any more economic growth out of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhat we do get is more inequality. The National Party oversees inequality very well every time it is in power. We see a move of assets and income to the higher-income people, at the expense of the middle classes and lower-income people. We have seen it in prior Budgets from this Government, where 40 percent of its income tax cuts went to the top 10 percent. It is those top 10 percent of income earners\u2014the wealthiest people in society\u2014who will be disproportionately buying these shares, and we will see inequality in New Zealand increase as a consequence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis Government continues to throw out these little targets and throw diversions. We have had\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207f18a386d594577bf35673dd2968584\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. His time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u002226555f1ea372448fb0b77a4185ff0122\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226555f1ea372448fb0b77a4185ff0122\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I listened very carefully to Bill English\u2019s speech this morning and to the description of the targets. You know, the Green Party is a very strong advocate, actually, for setting targets for reducing poverty and for eliminating family violence, and we think there is a lot of opportunity for some better cross-party work on those targets. The problem with Bill English\u2019s speech is that it was all just talk. It is not a question of just setting the targets or saying what he said, as nice as it might have sounded. The practicalities of a Government and the choices that a Government makes about where it puts it priorities, whom it values, and who gets it resources are set out in the Budget, and if you look beyond the pretty words of Mr English and look at the details of the Budget, you can see very clearly that there is no commitment to eliminating poverty, and there is no commitment to protecting vulnerable families or vulnerable children, because the money is being taken from exactly those families and being delivered elsewhere\u2014to mining companies and to the very wealthy. So it is all well and good to hear those nice words, but the Budget itself shows that those words are just not true. They are rhetoric designed for public consumption. I think it also behoves the Government to understand that the New Zealand public is just not that stupid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThis Government is failing New Zealanders every day, and it has made life much worse for those who have the least. The choices that the Government has made in the Budget are poor choices, and what it has required in that Budget is that ordinary New Zealanders pay the price for its poor economic management. There are some examples. There is the $2 billion cost because of the 2010 tax cuts. By giving a huge whack of money to the wealthy, the Government has created an economic hole, and now it is asking low-income families to pay for that. There is the $12 billion that the Government has committed still to motorways. Even though it requires increased borrowing and the Government cannot afford it, it would still rather spend $12 billion on motorways than on families. There are the emissions trading scheme pollution subsidies. The Government would still rather pay $1.5 billion to polluting companies than make sure that New Zealanders have warm, secure housing. It would rather give $400 million in irrigation subsidies to a few, despite the cost to the environment and to the rivers, than make sure that all our kids have access to a high-quality public education service. And, of course, there are the asset sales. Treasury itself has shown that the Budget deficit will be made worse as a result of the asset sales. Well, that is $100 million a year that the Government is prepared to waste to meet its ideological drive to sell off New Zealand\u2019s assets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EHaving made these bad economic decisions about where it is putting its money, the Government is now looking to New Zealanders to pay the bill. And it is not just ordinary New Zealand families but their children\u2014the very vulnerable children and the young people Bill English was talking about this morning. The first tax cuts were supposed to be paid for by the increase in GST, which vulnerable families had to pay. The Government is now going back to low and middle income New Zealanders and saying: \u201CPlease pay some more.\u201D Please pay some more in your student loan. Please pay more in your student allowance. Please pay more by having your training incentive allowance for beneficiaries taken from you. Please pay more for early childhood education. Please pay more for your prescription charges. That is what this Government is asking of low and middle income families. Please pay more so that we can continue to dole out our resources to the people we like, like the mining companies, the emissions trading polluters, and others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EWe did some analysis of this to look at how families have been affected by this Government\u2019s Budgets over the last few years, and this is what we found. A solo mum of one who is on a benefit, who is also working part-time\u2014so she is involved in her community\u2014is $5,000 worse off today because of National\u2019s economic management. A typical family with both parents in work, with three kids, earning around $70,000\u2014a very average family in economic terms\u2014is $11,000 worse off because of this National Government\u2019s poor economic management. But someone who is earning $400,000\u2014say, someone on a Prime Minister\u2019s salary\u2014who has two kids, is $19,000 better off as a result of National\u2019s policies. So we can see, just with a very simple analysis of National\u2019s economic management, who is getting the money and who is being asked to pay. And who is getting the money? It is the very wealthy. Who is being asked to pay? It is the very poor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EI sit here and listen to Bill English talking about how the Government wants to set targets to help protect vulnerable children, and I know that that is just a lie, because the Budget tells me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b14a72a04e38467cbfaa711979c2a41a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will withdraw and apologise for that comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bde0d045072c407c8b6900f3cda8250d\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. The Budget tells me what this Government actually wants to do, which is to take money away from low-income families, from those vulnerable children, and give it away to the wealthy. We see that over and over again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe Green Party has been very clear that we are committed to reducing inequality in this country and to ending child poverty, and it is also clear that our solutions work. The best example of this, of course, is the home insulation scheme. In a deal that was done between the Greens and National last term, and the Greens and Labour the term before, we established the home insulation scheme. It was originally designed to see what kinds of savings could be made in energy, but, actually, it turns out that for the $300 million - odd that is spent to insulate New Zealanders\u2019 homes, the country saves $1.5 billion in health costs. It is an enormous, fantastic economic success. By investing $330 million in New Zealanders and their families and their homes, $1.5 billion of health savings is returned to the entire country. And not only that but the research shows that the lives of 18 elderly people have been saved as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThat is the kind of green economic solution that actually does do what we said it should do. It does make lives better for ordinary New Zealanders. It does protect the health of those who are the most poor\u2014in this case, mostly those who are very elderly and living alone. It does have huge economic benefits, not only in creating jobs but in health savings to the country as a whole. These are the kinds of successful solutions where clear and careful investment of Government money into those solutions that work for families does deliver. It is one of the success stories of the green economy. It is also true that the Budget failed to allocate any more money for that scheme, and we will continue to work with the Government to see whether we can get it to at least contribute something, given that so many businesses now and so many communities are involved, and so many families take such a huge benefit from it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003ENot only are there significant costs to New Zealand families as a result of this Budget but there are also real threats to the environment. We know that our rivers and lakes are under threat from dairy intensification. There are increased subsidies for irrigators. Over half of our monitored rivers are unsafe for swimming. That means our kids, our vulnerable kids, are not safe when they go out swimming in New Zealand waters. National, of course, makes plans to make it much worse by subsidising more intensification\u2014mining our soils, as someone described it. Well, of course, that is not all that National is mining. Those members are talking about mining World Heritage sites now, of course, too. I understand that John Key has said that they just want to look at what is in the World Heritage sites but they will not touch. It is a bit like a child who just wants to count the lollies but promises not to eat them. Yeah, as if New Zealanders believe that!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders know rhetoric when they hear it. They know that this Government is demanding that New Zealand families pay the cost for its poor economic management, and that means that ordinary New Zealand families will suffer. Not only, as our analysis has shown, are ordinary families much worse off now than the very rich families but there is the increased cost to these families over time of the failed transportation decisions, prescription charges, and early childhood education, and the continual fights that our community has to have in order just to maintain essential services like reasonable class sizes so that their kids get a decent education. These are all costs borne by families, and those costs are imposed by this Government through the choices that this Government makes about where it puts resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EEvery Budget demonstrates the values of a Government, and this Government does not value children, families, and communities. The Green Party is here to stand up for children, families, and communities. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2913345432b45319960c8463ea40666\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2913345432b45319960c8463ea40666\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I take a call on behalf of New Zealand First on the Appropriation (2011/12 Supplementary Estimates) Bill and the Imprest Supply (First for 2012/13) Bill. We heard from the member from Dipton, otherwise known as the \u201CDouble-dipper from Dipton\u201D, and what a disappointing speech\u2014what a disappointing speech. New Zealanders are increasingly feeling that this Government seems to be just rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. Basically, it is just playing around on the fringes, playing around on the edges, but at the end of the day really not making a quantum change for New Zealand to take New Zealand forward, to grow the pie, to grow the economy, to grow jobs, to grow opportunities in New Zealand, and to grow business in New Zealand. The Government is just rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThe National Government inherited 7 or 8 years of surpluses, and immediately\u2014immediately\u2014took this country into deficit. It started with an $8 billion debt\u2014it started with an $8 billion debt\u2014and today we are in excess of $52 billion, some 3\u00BD years later. How does anyone run a company, how does anyone run a household, how does anyone run anything where you take the debt from $8 billion to $52 billion - plus in 3\u00BD years? The Government is not even saying that that is the end of it. The Government is saying that there is worse to come\u2014in another 2 or 3 years we will be over $70 billion in debt. It is no wonder New Zealanders are increasingly saying: \u201CWhat have we let loose here\u2014what have we let loose here? A Government that basically, really, is inept.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThe Government keeps promising that front-line services will not be cut, and there is all this rhetoric about front-line services not being cut. And yet week by week all we hear about is more 0800 numbers being started up by the various Government departments and ministries, and more and more call centres being set up, half of which I do not think are even in New Zealand, to service the needs of New Zealanders. I have constituents who say that now they wait on the telephone for 45 minutes to try to get a response from a department, and that is what this Government has provided for New Zealanders. If they have a problem with the Housing New Zealand Corporation, if they have a problem with Work and Income, if they have a problem with ACC, they sit and they wait, and they wait, and they wait on the 0800 number, and if they are lucky they will get somebody on the end of the line. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThat is what this Government is doing. Does this Government care about that\u2014does this Government care about that? I do not think so. The Government says that it is changing the way that the economy is run and it is changing the way the figures are controlled, but most of it is just moving things into things like 0800 call centres, so basically the services of New Zealand are in decline. It also seems to be very hypocritical, because on the one hand it says that everyone must tighten their belts, everyone must take cuts\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9c6f76dcfc84e188052005239ff1dca\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member made reference to the word \u201Chypocritical\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237f7c7393eff421286c7635f69e5e792\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. He did not. He said that it was hypocritical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcdd8c08f1c348cfa2829cd91c4bcb2d\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. As I was saying, quite rightly, it is hypocritical of this Government to ask for everyday, good New Zealanders to tighten their belts and make cuts and sacrifice services, whilst, for instance, the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet just balloons out in terms of the costs. From a relatively small staff under the former administration, look at the huge swell in numbers in the Prime Minister\u2019s department. I understand that there are now floors and floors of people there servicing the Prime Minister. Hundreds of people are servicing the Prime Minister, basically, when in former administrations there was a fraction of that number. Large numbers of security guards and spooks follow around behind the Prime Minister, even going to Hawaii on holiday with him\u2014even going to Hawaii. Who would even know who John Key is, in Hawaii? Nobody would even know the man. Nobody would even recognise the man\u2014he would not even be known. But, no, he has to take his private spooks along, paid for by the New Zealand taxpayer, so that while he is lying around a swimming pool with his wife and children, while he is having a lovely time in Hawaii, he looks important. When he goes down to the cafe and the coffee shop, he has these guys with all these wires hanging out of their ears so that he can look important when he walks into the restaurant, so that if he just happens to meet his mate Obama down at some restaurant, he can walk in with all his guys with the curly wires hanging out of their ears. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThat is what this Government has come to. It is all about face. It is all about putting on this big front. It is all about the smiley, happy-clappy stuff and looking good. It is all about \u201CMr Spray and Walk Away\u201D wanting to make a Government look good. Meanwhile, the very same person who holidays in Hawaii\u2014he does not holiday in New Zealand; he holidays in Hawaii\u2014is a major shareholder in ski fields in the United States. Not ski fields in New Zealand\u2014he is a major shareholder in ski fields in the United States, not New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EMeanwhile, we watch our tourism in decline. We read this weekend that New Zealand is falling off the radar, that New Zealand is no longer seen as an attractive destination in many of our major tourism resource markets. Is that not appalling? Yet that same gentleman, our Prime Minister, is the Minister of Tourism. Goodness knows why, because he said at the beginning when he became the Minister of Tourism that he would use the influence of his office of Prime Minister to help improve tourism in this country. Well, it has been a failure. It has been a failure. Why should we have the Prime Minister as the Minister of Tourism with the results he has achieved? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EAnd again, we were promised that this Government would grow the pie and increase jobs, and it started off in the first year with a Job Summit in Auckland, at the TelstraClear Pacific Events Centre. That Job Summit was going to bring all the chief executive officers and top brains from around New Zealand, and grow the New Zealand economy and grow the jobs. This Job Summit was going to grow\u2014well, what has it done? It has done nothing. There are more people now queuing up on unemployment than when that Job Summit was held. There are more people travelling across to Australia\u201450,000 a year\u2014than when that Job Summit was held. And just a short time before that, when John Key was the Leader of the Opposition, he stood in the Westpac Stadium in Wellington and he said\u2014and we all remember this\u2014\u201CI am standing here in the Westpac Stadium, which holds 35,000 people, and this is the number of people who are leaving every year to go to Australia. And when I become Prime Minister, I am going to put a halt to that. I am going to put a halt to that. We will reduce those numbers.\u201D Well, what has happened?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5ae172e4e694814aebb8cc45e505f4a\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s Eden Park.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d08ca8447be4cf786decf53a29af4e6\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Eden Park\u2014dead right. Eden Park holds 55,000 people, and now John Key can stand in the middle of Eden Park and say that under his watch, under his administration, 55,000 people a year are now going to Australia. He can rightfully now stand in Eden Park and say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E It is appalling. We are seeing lip-service from this Government. We are seeing lip-service from a failed administration that basically is not really doing things. It is attacking good aspects of New Zealand left, right, and centre. It is attacking, for instance, local government\u2014something very dear to my heart. It is taking local government apart. It is really, really putting the boot into local government. Again, a quote from John Key when he was Leader of the Opposition: he said in a speech to local government \u201CWe have to work in cooperation, because if this country is going to succeed and grow our infrastructure and grow our economy, we, as central government, have to work with local government.\u201D And what does this Prime Minister and this Government do? They just continue to put the boot into local government, put the boot into the regions, put the boot into things like the Mayors Taskforce for Jobs, and put the boot into our education sector by dividing the education sector and trying to tear it apart. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003ELeft, right, and centre this Government is not doing well by this economy. We have seen the failure in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, and how the Government tried to decimate our front-line services around the world. Our front-line services around the world it has tried to decimate, and it is not good enough. New Zealand First will continue to oppose many of these measures of this Government, because they are not good and they are not in the interests of everyday New Zealanders. New Zealanders are waking up to this. They are seeing the Government selling out our country. They are seeing it selling the silverware: the power stations, the dams on the Waikato River, the dams in the Tongariro, the dams in the South Island, and the geothermal stations around Taup\u014D. They are seeing all these being sold out from under them, and New Zealanders are increasingly saying: \u201CWe don\u2019t trust this Government.\u201D There will be changes and they will be coming in 2014.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022d773fa0620504b78a762fd8a47f6eed0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d773fa0620504b78a762fd8a47f6eed0\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise and speak in this debate. I was not sure how to start my speech, until Mr Williams gave us an autobiographical account of life as a mayor of North Shore. He said: \u201CSpray and walk away. Spray and walk away.\u201D Those were the days when he was there as the mayor. He also mentioned to us that he had been talking to some of his constituents. Well, here is a little wake-up call, Mr Williams: you do not have constituents, you are a list MP. It was Maggie Barry who won in that seat. She has constituents. Maggie Barry has told me she got 20,000 votes and you got 1,000 votes in that election. I did not realise there were 1,000 people in that electorate who had lemon trees. \u201CSpray and walk away\u201D was the theme of that last speech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThis is a very important debate today because it was an excellent Budget for New Zealand and an excellent Budget for New Zealanders, delivered by an excellent Prime Minister, John Key, and a hard-working Minister of Finance, Bill English. The Government has an economic plan. New Zealanders knew about it, they voted for it, and we are now delivering on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EEarlier in the debate David Parker spoke about his concerns about direction. He told us a bit about his vision for New Zealand. Well, that was economic policy by David Parker of Athens\u2014Athens in Greece, of course, not Epsom, where he also stood. Another colleague in the House got so many more votes; in fact, I think more Labour Party voters voted for my colleague in Epsom than for the Labour Party candidate at the time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ECan I say that our Budget is about reducing debt and investing in New Zealand and New Zealanders, about working hard to get back to surplus by 2014-15, and about less borrowing, less wasteful spending, and greater investment in New Zealand assets, and we will grow them over the next 4 years to $267 billion worth of assets. They are important assets for New Zealanders: schools, hospitals, roads, infrastructure\u2014things that make us more productive and get ahead. Focus on what people can do, not on what they cannot do. I was reading a story to my young daughter the other day. It was about the little engine that kept saying: \u201CI think I can, I think I can.\u201D Well, the little red engine on the other side is the engine of \u201Ccan\u2019t\u201D. The Labour Opposition says: \u201CNew Zealanders can\u2019t do anything. Nothing is right. We shouldn\u2019t do anything at all\u2014can\u2019t, can\u2019t, can\u2019t.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E Of course, we are reforming the welfare system, getting back to helping New Zealanders, supporting them back into doing the things that they can do, and not merely focusing on what they cannot do. As a speaker said earlier in the debate, this is not about taking people on the unemployment benefit and moving them to a sickness benefit or an invalids benefit, which happened over 9 long years of a Labour Government; this is about supporting New Zealanders, helping them get the skills they need to be productive in our society, and telling them that this Government has their back and we know and believe that they can do more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIn law and order, we are making New Zealanders safer\u2014making New Zealanders safer\u2014which is something that has been important to this Government over the last 3\u00BD years. We are recognising the rights of the victim, not the criminal\u2014putting the victim first. We are supporting our communities, supporting the police, and making New Zealand a safer place, and the statistics are showing this and proving it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EFinally, we are focusing on productivity and growth. We are a trading nation\u2014productivity and growth. The more productive we are, the more competitive we are. When we export our goods overseas we will earn more for them. That is better for our country. Businesses will invest in their own businesses. They will employ more. This is about supporting New Zealanders and New Zealand businesses, not about the Government employing and the Government taking money off others, recycling it, putting it back into the economy, and growing a system of dependency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EOver the last 3\u00BD years the National Government has taken a moderate and balanced approach to managing the Government\u2019s finances. I want to recognise that this 3\u00BD years has been extremely difficult for many New Zealanders, as it has been for many countries around the world. This has been part of a much wider economic programme to put the economy on a sounder footing. We have constantly reprioritised spending, and what we have done is made sure that when we spend taxpayers\u2019 money, they deserve a return on it. So we have not just said in the area of health, where the Minister Tony Ryall has worked effectively and hard over 3\u00BD years: \u201CHere\u2019s a lot more money. Go and see what you can do with it.\u201D We have said: \u201CThe taxpayer deserves more bang for that buck\u2014more operations with the money you have.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe great news is that Mr Ryall has increased spending in health, but also productivity in health has increased dramatically. In the Lakes District Health Board in my electorate, last year, the year before, and again this year, we have had more elective surgery operations than in any year ever before with almost the same amount of money. That comes through the hard work of doctors, nurses, and experts, and they are backed up by Tony Ryall. They know that Tony Ryall supports them, which is something they did not know of the last Minister over the last 9 years of a Labour Government. We have also said that for the past 3\u00BD years the Government has provided responsible economic management at a time when New Zealand very much needed it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI want for a moment to talk about a fantastic announcement by our Prime Minister, John Key, this week. He said that for New Zealanders, we will set 10 targets to challenge our public sector over the next 5 years. [Interruption] I am going to read out what those 10 targets are, because already there is a cacophony of people on the other side of the House who should be finding something more productive to do, and who are naysayers. As I said earlier, that is the party of \u201Ccan\u2019t\u201D\u2014\u201CYou can\u2019t do this, you can\u2019t do that, you can\u2019t do these other things.\u201D All those members are about is being \u201Ccan\u2019ts\u201D, and I do not think that is what New Zealanders want. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI received a text this week on the 5-year Public Service targets. It said: \u201CDear Todd, congratulations on the Prime Minister\u2019s announcements. Not sure if I\u2019ve missed these before. Perhaps this is the first time I\u2019ve seen a Government come out with clear, well-defined 5-year targets. It would have been good to see these targets done earlier. Well done. It\u2019s so important for the general public to see where as a country we are heading, with concise targets such as these. Have a great day.\u201D Not a Labour Party supporter\u2014that is right. Not a Labour Party member of Parliament, because that text is all about what we can do, not what we cannot do. The little red engine that thought it could, but actually it could not\u2014it cannot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESo what did the Prime Minister say? He set 10 clear targets for what it is that we must do in New Zealand. Reducing long-term welfare dependency\u2014reducing the number of people receiving the new jobseeker support for more than 12 months by 30 percent, from 78,000 to 55,000 by 2017. What an admirable target. On this side of the House we will work hard to make sure that we achieve that. Why would we do that? I firmly believe that when people are in work they and their families are better off. We want to back New Zealanders to help them do the things they can do, not tell them what they cannot do. Supporting vulnerable children\u2014what did we hear from one of the members opposite yesterday? These targets are not important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e64f804af7644cd696db9bf4fc4290fa\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Meaningless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c95562b9ec342f68706217cc63ec66b\u0022\u003EAlfred Ngaro\u003C/span\u003E: Meaningless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0664137666d48a6ba39f4b496d7a925\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Meaningless, meaningless. Well you know what happened on 26 November last year. The New Zealand public told us what was meaningless. The Labour Party got the lowest vote ever under MMP. That is what meaningless was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESupporting vulnerable children will ensure that by 2016, 98 percent of children starting school will have participated in early childhood education\u2014fantastic. Not only have we put much more money into early childhood education, we are going to make sure that those who are least advantaged, the most disadvantaged, are helped to get their kids into early childhood education, so that they can get on the road to better education and better achievement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWe are going to increase infant immunisation rates to 95 percent of 8-month-olds\u2014a fantastic idea. Well done, Tony Ryall. I know that we can do this. We will reduce the incidence of rheumatic fever by two-thirds by 2017. This is a disease that should not be in New Zealand. We all in this House need to join hands to find ways to support that and to change it. We will help stop the 10-year rise in children experiencing physical abuse, and reduce the number of children experiencing substantial physical abuse by more than 1,000, on projected numbers, by 2017. Actually, would it not be great if we could join together and find a way to do that? Minister Paula Bennett is focused on making sure the lives of our young people are better and that they are better protected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWe are going to focus on boosting skills and employment\u2014on 85 percent of young people getting the National Certificate of Educational Achievement level 2\u2014and reducing crime is very important for us. On the opposite side of the House they say it is not happening. Well, look at the statistics. Get out and talk to people. Talk to some of Maggie Barry\u2019s constituents and you will see that New Zealanders are feeling safer, but we have a long way to go here because we want to put the New Zealand public first and the criminal second. There are some other changes around businesses so that they can have a one-stop shop in dealing with the Government, and so that New Zealanders are able to complete many more of their transactions with the Government in a digital environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI say to you that this is a Budget for the people. We are a Government for the people. We have a Prime Minister of the people. I think that this is a wonderful thing that we are doing here today, and I commend this legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022b18e6149602743f1a3130caaf563a7c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b18e6149602743f1a3130caaf563a7c8\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E So now we have it. After 3\u00BD years, National has announced some targets. Remember, it had some targets 3\u00BD years ago when it won its first election. What were those targets? A brighter future was the first one. Closing the gap with Oz\u2014that is gone; that has been torpedoed, vaporised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThen it had the target\u2014and the member speaking before me, Todd McClay, talked about unemployment\u2014\u201COh, we\u2019re going to get unemployment down. We\u2019re going to assist.\u201D In fact, the Minister for Social Development, Ms Bennett, said: \u201CWe are going to assist people into jobs.\u201D Well, here is the go. Now we have 50,000 more people unemployed than there were 3\u00BD years ago, thanks to that target, thanks to that Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThen, of course, National was going to reverse immigration. Remember that? Andrew Williams talked about that. That was another target 3\u00BD years ago. Now we have, of course, 52,000 people a year\u20141,000 people a week\u2014going to Australia. As my colleague David Parker said, it has nothing to do with Greece or Spain or Portugal or the global financial crisis or the world economic meltdown. Oh no! They are off for the brighter future on the Gold Coast. So they were the targets that National had\u201450,000 more people unemployed. And it asks us what we would do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EAt the last election we had a really simple thing. I note that Todd McClay, of course, never mentioned the earthquake. The earthquake is a tragedy, but the earthquake is also an opportunity. It is the world\u2019s biggest training scheme. That is what it is\u2014the world\u2019s biggest training scheme. We knew\u2014the Government knew\u2014almost 2 years ago now, when the first one hit, that we were going to need 20,000, 30,000, 40,000, or, some people say, 50,000 trades-trained individuals. We have the other side of the equation, thanks to Paula Bennett, of nearly 89,000 young people not in work, not in training, languishing in the dole queue. I think that is another target displaced and disregarded by the National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe question for the National Government is this: why is it that it cannot match a large group\u201489,000 young people\u2014to a massive training opportunity in Christchurch? We now know that the Government has spent a minuscule amount on trades training of the trades-training budget\u2014$42 million was put aside; I think it has spent $7 million. Right? So why can it not get the group of unemployed off the dole and into training? Yes, it might cost some money; yes, that is true. But the payback is that those young people, had they been put through trades training and started it 2 years ago, would be two-thirds through their time\u2014productive young people swinging the hammers, turning the screwdrivers, picking up the trowel, laying the bricks, rebuilding our second-largest city, and, by the way, in jobs and paying tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EYou might ask: \u201CWell, hang on, we\u2019ve got no dough. How do we pay for that?\u201D. Well, we did have a simple policy. It was to take a year\u2019s dole and give it to the boss, and the boss tops it up with a couple of hundred dollars a week. The boss gets that for the first year to get that young person over the sort of hump when they are not productive and when they are actually a cost to the business, and thereafter the boss bites the wage bill and trains that person. A guy in Christchurch called Brent Mettrick, who is from one of the biggest residential construction firms in Christchurch, said that he had 20 gangs out there, and he would take 20 people tomorrow. It does not cost a penny because it is fiscally neutral, because either you pay the young person to sit on the dole and languish, or you give the money to the boss and the deal with the boss is that they train that person in a trade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ENow, I reckon that that is a goer. It is a bit of innovation, it is a bit of smarts, and it is backed by the business community, which desperately needs it. But, oh, what have we got over there? Nothing. Members opposite cannot even convince\u2014and they cannot even use the money they allocated themselves to match 89,000 young people to 50,000 potential trades training jobs. Not a thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo here is the prediction. Here is the prediction. What will happen when the gun goes off in Christchurch is that those geniuses over there will turn the immigration tap on, because a victim does not care who does their house\u2014they just want their house back\u2014and you cannot tell a business to wait 3 more years until the National Government gets its act together and starts training some people. So in will come the flow of trades qualified people from offshore. In fact, they are coming now. Of course, the missed opportunity here is that the taxpayer will still be paying, as they do every day, for more and more unemployed folk. Paula Bennett\u2019s great legacy will be\u2014to date, and counting\u201450,000 more people on the dole queue. I just say, do you remember the target that National had to get unemployment down, close the gap with Oz, and turn the immigration tide round? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ERemember the cycleway? The cycleway was going to be the big king-hit. We had Chris Tremain, the Associate Minister of Tourism, in before the Commerce Committee last week. We asked him, after a couple of years of sort of cycling around the cycleway: \u201CHow many jobs, Minister?\u201D. He did not know. Well, I can tell him. There are a couple of hundred permanent jobs in constructing the cycleway\u2014a couple of hundred\u2014and that Minister could not name a figure. So then we asked him further, because the target, of course, was 4,000 to 5,000 jobs out of this wonderful cycleway. He could not tell us. The best we could find out was by flicking through some statistics to work out that there might be a couple of hundred people in construction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThen we asked the Minister: \u201CHow many businesses?\u201D, because on 17 July 2009, I think, when John Key launched this great initiative, he said: \u201CThere will be businesses opening up everywhere. They will be lining up down each side of the track to sell to tourists. They will be flocking in.\u201D So we asked the Associate Minister of Tourism: \u201CHow many businesses?\u201D. Well, he told the truth. He said that in Napier, I think, one was a fish and chip shop, but I am not sure. There were two businesses that he named. One, I think, was a cycle shop, actually\u2014he will correct me when he gets up and takes a call. He named two businesses, and good on him. I will admit that that is progress, but it ain\u2019t the target National set for this country in its manifesto. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EAn Associate Minister of Tourism could not tell us, after 2\u00BD years, how many jobs there would be, how many jobs there are now, whether he had reset the target, whether there is going to be an evaluation\u2014well, there is, apparently; evaluating what, I do not know\u2014or how many businesses the great cycleway had generated. He could not tell us, because it ain\u2019t many. We know that there are two in New Zealand, and to those two businesses in Napier, I say congratulations. What a fantastic opportunity they have got. Those two businesses have kicked a goal for the country, and good on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThen, of course, we had the financial hub. That was announced, and it was going to be the king-hit. That was going to be the new target, the silver bullet for the country, and it has disappeared off the face of the earth. Gone\u2014never mentioned now in the 120-point plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo I say to National members that the best strategy that they have got\u2014the only thing they have put up\u2014is to rip off paper boys, kick the elderly in the guts with the asset testing, tinker around the edges, and flog off the family silver. That is all they have got. I ask them now: what is the target for jobs in the next 3 years, how many jobs will be created, how much growth, and how many new export markets will be created as a result of selling assets? A big fat zero. They crow that they have announced 10 more targets\u201410 more targets. Well, announcing targets does not put bread on the table for people. It does not pay off the debt that the Government is racking up at 300 million bucks a week as a result of a tax cut where 10 percent\u2014the top 10 percent\u2014got 40 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo the Government just keeps announcing targets, and you know when a Government is sort of out of ideas, because there are just more targets coming out. You know, it says there is a war on this and a target on that, and the best gimmick it could come up with last week was Anne Tolley standing on the wreck of a car body. What a genius!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220347e47bb15246508ae5d3ef4e57e410\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: In her stilettos.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f548979e8e904b51b099857c9c83662b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: In her stilettos. Well, I do not own a pair of stilettos, but I am told by Annette King that it is rather difficult\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f38e58c6ca014f67b0f36cae6ca65a8c\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Are you sure? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f92c6dbedd946d7aedae2966fd850ff\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure about that\u2014I am sure about that. It is difficult, they say, to stand on the bonnet of a car in stilettos, and sort of \u201CRambo-ette\u201D-like was Anne Tolley. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo the National Government\u2019s plan is to re-announce and re-announce targets, such as a 10-point plan for the Public Service, and to tinker around the edges, with no real strategy and no mention of what the growth target is or how many export markets will be opened up. Even the clich\u00E9s from Todd McClay: \u201CWe want to help people into employment.\u201D\u2014great aim; we all agree with it. But where is the evidence that anything has happened? \u201CWe have got 10 targets\u201D\u2014he said\u2014\u201Cfor the Public Service.\u201D Great! You have had 3\u00BD years to actually produce the goods, and the country has gone backwards, absolutely backwards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say that this crew, even \u201CRusty\u201D in the corner over there\u2014even \u201COld Rusty\u201D\u2014has no targets. What will she say to her people? \u201CWell, unemployment\u2019s up. The gap with Australia\u2019s opened\u2014they\u2019re 38 percent ahead in wages. Well, the country\u2019s gone backwards, but we\u2019ve announced some more targets. We\u2019ve announced some more targets.\u201D Well, I say this. It is going to be a big target, all right. It is going to be a big bull\u2019s-eye. It is going to go on the back of every member over there, and the people of New Zealand will take aim. They will take aim in 2014 and, by God, they will hit the bull\u2019s-eye. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6ff7c14280b41ef94b35a8930b251e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6ff7c14280b41ef94b35a8930b251e9\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table the benefit numbers for the month of May, which will show\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b924d6edc9014c66be2a6274b66825b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b924d6edc9014c66be2a6274b66825b7\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? [Interruption] Thank you. There is objection. [Interruption] Order! I know that it is early. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EJust before I call the next member\u2014[Interruption] Order! Can I just inform members that yelling across the House\u2014that interjections are permitted, but it is usually aimed at the person who is speaking. We have not got anybody speaking at the moment. Before I call the next member, can I just advise the House and the whips that there will be a number of 5-minute calls coming up, and I will ring the bell with 1 minute remaining for those with a 5-minute call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022abebdfbc7b1741b8b38b9affc151b2fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abebdfbc7b1741b8b38b9affc151b2fd\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a huge pleasure to take one of these 5-minute calls. I am just wondering whether the previous speaker, the Hon Clayton Cosgrove, was displaying wilful ignorance or a real lack of understanding, or maybe he has had his eyes closed over the last 3\u00BD years. He talked about export markets. We have just had yet another example of the excellent work being done by our Minister of Trade, the Hon Tim Groser. The work he has done has been going on for a long, long period of time, but the most recent jewel in the crown was the expression of interest from Mexico and Canada in joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which is going to add to our trading opportunities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EWe have set ourselves a number of targets, and we are very happy to do that. This is a Government that is prepared to set targets and to be held to account. One of the targets we have set is to generate 40 percent of our GDP through trade. This work, through the good efforts of our excellent trade team, led by Tim Groser, will only help that. The Trans-Pacific Partnership recognises that the Pacific Basin is an area of prosperity. New Zealand\u2019s lead role in that is well signalled and well recognised by such countries as the United States, which has put up its hand to be involved. Japan is signalling its intention. We know that Viet Nam, Malaysia, Australia, and all these countries have joined with the initial group, which was Singapore and New Zealand, to create a very powerful trading bloc in the world for the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EIt appears that there is little or no awareness of the global financial crisis on the other side of the House. There is little or no awareness of the turmoil that exists in Europe at the moment, where just a few days ago there was a second attempt by the Greeks to form a Government. They have done so, and, by the skin of their teeth, they have decided to listen to the EU, the IMF, and the European Central Bank, and to adopt the austerity measures demanded by those who are helping them weather the huge recession and financial crisis they are facing. The European financial turmoil remains a significant threat for New Zealand. However, despite this, the good work of this Government over the last 3 years has cushioned New Zealanders from the worst effects of that ongoing crisis, despite the fact that we heard in the House just a very short while ago that the previous Leader of the Opposition does not think it is actually still going. In fact, it still is. I believe that we on this side of the House recognise that it is, even though others feel that maybe it is something that New Zealand does not really have to have much awareness of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EWe have had excellent results in our GDP figures. We are making progress. It may be lumpy, it may be bumpy, and it may be a little bit grumpy, but we are making progress. Primary production is up, and manufacturing is stronger. In \u201CLa-La Labour Land\u201D these things seem to be unrecognised. In \u201CLa-La Labour Land\u201D they seem to have no appreciation of the huge progress that has been made over the last 3\u00BD years, which will be continued by this Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EOne of the things we have made progress on, despite the comments made by a previous speaker on the other side of the House, is the significant improvements in our country\u2019s safety. Security is the first duty owed to a community by the State, and all over New Zealand communities are feeling safer. In my own area of interest, where I have my office, in Manurewa, the people there in Manurewa are telling me they are feeling safe\u2014they are feeling safe. [Interruption] They are telling me they are feeling safe. The reason they are feeling safe is that this Government has invested in them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EWe are doing a lot of work to protect our most vulnerable, and this will continue with this new Budget. The work done by the Hon Paula Bennett on the white paper addressing how we can protect vulnerable children is addressing an issue that is a stain on our country\u2019s escutcheon. It is appalling that so many of our young people have been assaulted, battered, and subjected to physical violence over a period of time, and we are putting up our hand to do something about it. And it is not easy; there are no simple, easy answers. But this Budget is determined to set targets in the Public Service. One of those targets is to improve the results for our vulnerable children in avoiding the appalling statistics continuing to increase as they have, year after year. This is a fine Budget. This is an excellent Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022 data-id=\u002273dc192d98d642cfad10286d68dd532e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273dc192d98d642cfad10286d68dd532e\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I found it interesting to hear the previous speaker, Cam Calder, say that the first duty of the State is to provide security, when it has just sold our assets and made us all feel a lot more insecure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI want to talk about what I think the duty of the State is with regard to education in terms of this appropriation debate. I will start with targets, because we have heard a lot of rhetoric about targets this morning. Target No. 1 was to sell assets. Target No. 2 was to sell them to pay for tax cuts for the top 10 percent of people in the country. One of the other targets is to privatise the education system, and another target is to bash beneficiaries. All of these targets are well on track, but they are not working for the people on the streets. I spent 5 hours yesterday on the streets of the K\u0101piti Coast listening to citizens talking about their experience of the current Government, what they believe about asset sales, and what they think about education. It is very educational to spend time on the streets listening to what people have got to say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI want to talk first about the appropriations, because the figures do not tell the real story. The figures are fairly opaque, and you can do what you like with them. Every Government tends to spend more on education, simply because the population grows and we have more children to educate. It has got very little to do with a real investment in it, and that is why I say that one of the targets is a privatisation agenda for the education system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EWe will start with early childhood education, which is one area where there is a great claim that we have spent more money. At a recent forum in Waikato David Bennett, Sue Moroney, and I met with early childhood teachers and with early childhood teaching students who were doing their practicums in early childhood centres. In fact, both Sue Moroney and I did not really need to say anything, because those people told the Government very clearly that they were being undercut by Government policy on early childhood education. No longer can they go through an education process and be guaranteed they will get a job in an early childhood centre, because the target for qualified staff has gone from 100 percent to 80 percent. Early childhood education centres, which are all feeling the pinch due to the freeze on their funding, are not able to actually hire people with qualifications. It is a perverse educational incentive when the less qualified you are, the more likely you are to get a job in your chosen passion, which is early childhood education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E In all the rhetoric around the importance of children, the first concept we need to sort out is universalism, and then targeting. If we do not provide universal access to early childhood education, we will never meet the need, because we can never know where all those children are, and it is not possible to do an effective target without universalism. So the early childhood education experience is very bitter, and anyone who was at that forum would have heard exactly what those people are saying\u2014that they were very disappointed that they were having to put up fees, meaning that people could not access early childhood education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ELet us move on to primary schools, because I have got only 5 minutes to talk about this subject. Again, if you look at the appropriations, the professional development budget has been narrowed into one form of professional development, and that is to ensure that schools are rolling out the Government\u2019s agenda, and it is not an agenda that they chose. That agenda is the agenda to roll out national standards. National standards, according to the teachers and parents I have talked to, are not even properly moderated, which means you do not have them as a standard across the country, nor can they be said to be national. Apparently, a whole lot more money is about to be spent on expensive software\u2014a programme where you can punch in some numbers and then those numbers will print out a result, and that will tell you what league table your school is going to end up in. That is not proper moderation and it is not going to make sure that we have any kind of assessment that works. I would just like to point out that the target to increase national standards is actually a target to cut arts advisers and science advisers and whole child education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI was outside Parliament the other day and met two American teachers who are over here looking at our system. They said: \u201CThe reason we\u2019re here is because you have some fantastic principles that run your education system. Of course, it can be better.\u201D But one of the things they said was: \u201CWe have lost it in the United States with education. We are assessing, assessing, assessing, and we are no longer teaching. We are not teaching the whole child. This is about whole child learning. We have seen in your schools that your teachers are committed to whole child learning.\u201D They said to me: \u201CIf you are a politician, don\u2019t let this happen.\u201D Therefore, in terms of the appropriations debate, it is really important that the money gets spent on broad professional development and on supporting the curriculum. Otherwise the targets are a complete waste of time. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00222c78abef1dd647f9a854ebcd4e295e7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c78abef1dd647f9a854ebcd4e295e7b\u0022\u003EPAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to speak in this second reading debate on the Appropriation (2011/12 Supplementary Estimates) Bill and the Imprest Supply (First for 2012/13) Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI am reminded of the fact that on Friday morning I went up at the crack of dawn, 8 a.m., to the top of One Tree Hill on the edge of the Epsom electorate. We were there to celebrate the centenary of the death of Sir John Logan Campbell, who is recognised as the father of Auckland. He died in 1912 and is most famous for the fact that he left Cornwall Park\u2014one of Auckland\u2019s greatest assets; a beautiful park\u2014for the city, which the people enjoy, and it does not cost the ratepayers of Auckland one bean. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe civic-mindedness of Sir John Logan Campbell is an inspiration to us all. He went through lots of ups and downs during his career. In the 1870s he almost had to subdivide that park to pay off his debts, and it is a good job that he did not. But the thing about Sir John Logan Campbell is that before he was a great benefactor he was a great entrepreneur, and his life and story is typical of Auckland\u2019s story as a city of enterprise. He was a man who started with nothing, came to New Zealand in 1840, and built a lot of businesses. He was involved in the Bank of New Zealand and New Zealand Insurance. He had farms. He had all sorts of businesses\u2014liquor, beer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9091b97148442ca96e2a9fddf210d39\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I thought this debate was on the Appropriation (2011/12 Supplementary Estimates) Bill. This is very wide of that subject. Could we stop the history lesson and get on with debate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ef79dd796fc4171acc2726888a10b32\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I thank the honourable member for his contribution. The member, of course, is right, but I also allow a little bit of latitude when members are first starting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc89313effa048779f55e568644c6525\u0022\u003EPAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I was setting the scene and wending my way to the point. And the point is that John Logan Campbell is an exemplar of the enterprise that is at the core of the city of Auckland, our greatest city in New Zealand. Enterprise is at the core of New Zealand\u2019s success and at the core of this Government, and this Budget, which we are here to discuss, is all about encouraging and supporting enterprise in New Zealand, which is how we are going to make progress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EIt is not written in stone that New Zealand will always continue to be one of the wealthiest countries in the world; it is not ours as of right. It is not something that we deserve in any way; it is something that we have to earn every year. It is about generating products that the world wants to buy at a decent price, and every year we need to go out and fight in international markets to persuade people that they will buy our products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe hear from the other side of the House a sense of entitlement that is reminiscent of the problem that plagues many countries around the world, particularly in Europe, where populations and Governments have given in to the idea that somehow everything is owed to them as of right, and for ever and a day they will continue to have these wonderful pensions and have these wonderful social security arrangements, and somehow the money will magically come from somewhere to pay for it. It does not work like that, and here we are at the end of an era where those Governments will have to face up to that reality. They can try to put it off for a few years, but they will only make the situation worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe are lucky that we live in this country where at least over the last couple of decades Governments have recognised that New Zealand has to earn its way. We lost sight of that reality, I think, in the 9 years in the earlier part of the last decade, but this Government has brought us back to that realism. It is interesting that most parties in this House recognise that it is critical that we grow the pie in New Zealand\u2014grow the pie in terms of the overall economy in New Zealand\u2014so we can afford all the sorts of things that people enjoy, so we can afford superannuation down the line, so we can afford to have health care of the style and quality that we have come to expect, so we can afford to buy the latest pharmaceuticals, and so we can afford to employ quality teachers in our schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI suppose the only party that does not seem to understand that is the Greens, whom I regard as basically an extremist party. They actually want to shrink the pie. They actually want to make the economy smaller. They talk about mining the soil. They are against the farmers who create most of the wealth in this country. They want to make it more difficult to have a farm and to grow a farm. They do not want us to mine. They do not want us to use any of our resources. They actually want us to go backwards as an economy, because somehow they think this is a better way to live. Well, I have not met anybody who does not want to have access to the best-quality health-care that money can buy, but they do not seem to see the contradiction in that. It is amazing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI thought we were going to have Mr Hone Harawira speaking to us next. I find it kind of embarrassing, really, that we have somebody in this Parliament who complains about local M\u0101ori in Northland heading off overseas to Australia to work in the mines. He says it is terrible and he says we should be providing work for these local M\u0101ori in New Zealand, but, at the same time, in the same breath, without any barefaced embarrassment, he will oppose every little thing that the Government proposes to do in Northland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EHe opposes any idea of any mining going on in Northland\u2014no, we cannot possibly do anything like that. He does not seem to see the contradiction in what he is saying. You cannot, on the one hand, say that we do not want mining, and, on the other hand, say: \u201COh, this is terrible, people are leaving New Zealand to work in Australian mines.\u201D The contradiction does not seem to enter his head, but it enters everybody else\u2019s heads, and that is why they are so embarrassed to be hearing this sort of thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EIt is like the Greens going on about housing affordability no end while they do not seem to see the contradiction in artificially raising the price and cost of land in Auckland by their ideological fixation on tight boundaries for the urban area. Put one and one together, you do get two, but they do not seem to see this connection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThis Budget and this Government are all about being realistic about how the economy works, and the fact that you have to earn your money and you have to grow the economy\u2014and it is important to grow the economy. We understand that we have to leave some room and some money for New Zealanders and New Zealand businesses to grow, and reduce the demands that the Government makes on individuals and companies so they have the resources and so they have the capital to invest in their businesses, to employ people, and to grow the economy. The only people who do not seem to have cottoned on to that idea are Len Brown and his Labour and Green friends on the Auckland Council, who seem to be quite happy to put rates up by 30 percent\u201410 percent each year in Epsom for about the next 5 years. Ten percent each year! People are looking at inflation of about 2 percent over the next little while, but council members seem to be living in a parallel universe. They think you can just keep on increasing the rates by 10 percent each year for ever and a day, because somehow they deserve it. The council can spend its money far better than the poor ratepayers, and you just keep on cranking it up somehow, and somehow this is going to lead to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225be8be8dadb04080ad52da1da42423a0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! When the member uses the word \u201Cyou\u201D, he is speaking to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2bc044a583e47519db4c3c78870adef\u0022\u003EPAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies, Mr Speaker. I was getting carried away there. It makes me very upset when I think about what is going on in Auckland Council at the moment and the way that it is using ratepayers\u2019 money and continuing to increase rates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI return to some of the issues in this Appropriation (2011/12 Supplementary Estimates) Bill. Despite the surprises that have come our way, the New Zealand economy is now much stronger than it was when the Government came in in 2008. We have improved the tax system\u2014the 2010 Budget was critical for that\u2014so that it encourages work and savings rather than incentives to hide income or to head offshore. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EJust imagine if we had been so unfortunate as to have had the Labour Party in power! We would have been fiddling around with the GST system, and the good people in Remuera who go to Jack Lum\u2019s and buy the asparagus that has been flown in first-class from Sweden and Spain would not have to pay the GST. That would be so important! Would that not be a marvellous and sensible way to deal with the tax system\u2014stuff up GST? That is what the Labour Party was proposing to do. We might have been considering a capital gains tax at the moment. That surely would have solved New Zealand\u2019s problems in terms of encouraging enterprise! You would slap a capital gains tax on each of the farms and each of the small businesses that have been built up, and somehow you would be encouraging enterprise by adding a new tax for those entrepreneurs to have to pay. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe have also made the Government run parts of the economy more efficiently, so they do not get in the way of the internationally competitive parts of the economy. We have reduced our reliance on foreign lenders by limiting our debt. That is what the whole story of the Mixed Ownership Model Bill that we have been debating at great length over the last week has been about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAlthough it may be possible to get plenty of money on international markets at the moment at low interest rates, there is no guarantee that that will be the case in 1 month\u2019s time, in 6 months\u2019 time, or in a year\u2019s time. It is only prudent and proper that this Government should be reducing the overall amount of debt that it is taking on by the mixed-ownership model, which frees up $5 billion to $7 billion in capital, as we have discussed, and enables us to continue to invest in many assets and in incoming earning assets such as the irrigation scheme in the South Island. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe have also cut tape to encourage enterprise and flexibility. We can talk about the changes to the Resource Management Act, which are under way. We have introduced the 90-day probation period for new workers, and that has had a remarkable effect. I could go on at great length about how this Government is doing the hard graft that it needs. Thank you very much, and I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00226a69c71a34334a7eaf4674c0351f7607\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a69c71a34334a7eaf4674c0351f7607\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E In the previous call, I heard Mr Williams interjecting that the Auckland super-city legislation was National\u2019s fault. Actually, let us just think about the consequences of that. Certainly North Shore\u2019s loss is Parliament\u2019s gain, is it not? Were it not for the fact that that legislation was passed, we would not have Mr Williams gracing us with his presence in the House, waxing lyrical with such great lines as \u201CMr Spray and Walk Away\u201D. He is, indeed, the gift that keeps on giving. That has been the sort of debate, has it not? One of the more eloquent members of the Labour caucus described Mr English\u2019s speech as \u201Cpure bollocks\u201D. Well, I think that is a measure of the sort of language that has been coming out of the Labour Party caucus in the last 24 hours. It is very unfortunate, but people are listening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut what confuses me the most is how Labour Party members claim they understand the importance of an export-led open economy with our trading partners, and then turn around and say: \u201CThe things that happen in Europe can\u2019t matter to us. Why is the Government always blaming Europe for our woes?\u201D. Well, actually we are not. They are simply an environmental variable. But it is worth, I think, reflecting on the sorts of things that trading nations around the world are having to do, including the very significant austerity measures that are being taken by those economies. The UK is facing cuts in nursing staff in National Health Service hospitals of up to 20 percent, as part of a plan to reduce public sector workers by nearly three-quarters of a million. That is about one-third of our workforce, and it is having to cut it as part of its austerity measures. We do not need to remind the House of what is going on in Greece and the very, very real risk of the contagion effect of the European banks not continuing to support that economy. It was certainly a relief last weekend when some form of common sense prevailed by the voters of Europe. In Spain there is a very large debt challenge and it is one of our largest kiwifruit markets. So it is simply not possible to say that we are to pretend that we are an open trading nation and then not say that those things matter to this economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EOur tradable sector was in recession for years before National took back the Treasury benches. We faced 10 years of deficits, unemployment rates targeted to achieve 7.5 percent, inflation already 5.1 percent when we came to office and forecast to go to nearly 6 percent\u2014and we have stayed below that despite increasing GST\u2014and interest rates at an overcooked 8 or so percent, now down to a much more moderate level. Yet still there is criticism from members on the other side for setting targets. Well, I want to compare those targets with the rhetoric\u2014or, as Dr Clark said last night, the \u201Crhe-toric\u201D; we have a \u201Cple-thora\u201D of \u201Crhe-toric\u201D from the other side of the House\u2014and to remember what those \u201Crhe-toric\u201D comments were from the Labour Government. The knowledge economy\u2014remember the knowledge economy? The tide went out on the knowledge wave, did it not? Remember\u2014this is the one I really like\u2014the zero-carbon economy? Yet under a Labour-Green Government carbon emissions went through the roof. We lost 35,000 hectares of trees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWhat else did we have? Closing the gaps\u2014remember closing the gaps? The gaps widened. One of the reasons is that while those members talked in \u201Crhe-toric\u201D, as Dr Clark would say, not a single target was set. In the best of economic times, not a single target was met. And do you know the best thing about not setting targets? You do not have to meet them. One does not have to meet them. There is no measure of failure. Well, I think the Prime Minister and his Cabinet have set very ambitious and brave targets. They are putting themselves out there. I think this is a very, very significant moment for politics in New Zealand, because it is an edgy business. But it does definitely give some meaning to the substance of the policies that we are debating in this House and implementing. One of them, of course, is the mixed-ownership model. The Labour Party will say that it learnt from its mistakes in the 1980s\u2014and it is true; it learnt. Actually, so did the National Government, because we would never sneak in asset sales under the radar of an electoral mandate, as Labour did in the 1980s. We would never sell 100 percent, we would never do it to a single purchaser, and we would never do it under urgency. This was very fair, it was well signalled, it went through a select committee, and it had a mandate. I think that is a very, very good way to do it. This Government learnt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c051676704b943b39b15bb851cd8fb57\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I can read the member\u2019s lips. He will have to be louder. But anyway, I will call the honourable member Denis O\u2019Rourke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u00226c543cad339b4d4c9a33c3a66d9a393c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c543cad339b4d4c9a33c3a66d9a393c\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I hope you can hear me now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220114557835c1463082ba0d257ba95a13\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I can. Yes, I can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022882b89855ee24d8e96a8a9f41b04787a\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, I would like to say that some previous speakers have talked about growing the economy, and certainly New Zealand First supports that. But what the previous speaker, Michael Woodhouse, did not understand is that it is necessary to grow an economy sustainably, with all that that means. That is where he was also wrong about his comments about the Green Party. Secondly, of course, the benefits of an economy must be fairly distributed, and that is one of the things that I think this Budget simply does not do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI want to refer particularly to two subjects amongst these appropriations. The first is the national cycleway. There has been a reduction in commitment to this by National over the years. It was 4 years ago that National campaigned on a national cycleway as a means of supporting tourism. But there has been no real supporting strategy for that, and therefore no real substantial result. It was mostly puffery. And we see in this appropriation even less commitment to that particular strategy. Nevertheless, some good works were done. Some good works were done but not enough\u2014not enough. There is a need for innovation in support of tourism, because tourism, under this Government, is simply failing. Tourism, even with the Prime Minister\u2019s support, is simply failing in this country and not succeeding at all. So innovations of this kind and more innovation are needed to support tourism. It would, in fact, be better if the Government was to apply this allocation and more to the support of urban cycling as a good means of supporting transport strategies and also tourism, because cycling is good for tourism within urban areas as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe second subject I want to move on to is the allocation for water storage and investment. Water issues are huge issues globally and will be for the whole of this century\u2014huge issues also within New Zealand. I might say that they are particularly huge issues where I live in Canterbury, which has 70 percent of the nation\u2019s irrigated land. Irrigation schemes have been struggling in New Zealand, and there are many reasons for that. One of them is the consent processes, which are often far too long, produce far too little benefit, and sometimes have some perverse outcomes. I might also say that the rules applied by regional councils in this country are too often irrational, confusing, seem to move from year to year, and make it difficult for projects to get going. Access to water resources is the main challenge, and storage of them\u2014which is one of the purposes of the allocation in this Appropriation (2011/12 Supplementary Estimates) Bill\u2014is a very difficult issue. Many legal challenges, a lot of competition for water, and the storage problems still remain and have not been properly addressed by this Government at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI would like to say that I am involved personally with one of these schemes, the Central Plains Water scheme\u2014a 60,000 hectare scheme. I am the chairman of a trust that is to hold the consents for that scheme. The bottom line for that is sustainable development. A sustainable farming protocol is what the application was based on and has been granted on, which is enforceable under contract and through the consents. But it took 10 years and $10 million - plus to get that far, and that was without any Government assistance whatsoever. So, after all those consenting barriers and all the barriers put in place by regional councils, we still have no substantial water storage in Canterbury. There is some strategy, but very little. The Government response, as we see in this legislation, has been completely inadequate\u2014a small amount for the purposes of assisting schemes to final design stage and a capital provision of somewhere between $400 million and $450 million. But in terms of New Zealand\u2019s requirements, that is actually a drop in the bucket and is a completely inadequate provision for the development of sustainable agriculture through properly developed water schemes for irrigation in this country. So what we need from the Government is a lot more than we have seen in the Budget, and in particular in this particular allocation. It is absolutely vital for New Zealand\u2019s future and it is vital that these provisions be sustainable. The Government needs to do a lot more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a772f19439cd42c8b041eb22b794550d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a772f19439cd42c8b041eb22b794550d\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker Robertson, for the way that you have conducted the debate today. It has been very well done, and I think that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca65983486e54e0190d886f4d5105465\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268a2dd6e12ea4694ac8fc7f57e7ff81c\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! First of all I just wanted to thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. That was a very interesting speech from the New Zealand First member Denis O\u2019Rourke. The first line, I think, in that speech was to suck up to the Green Party\u2014a potential neighbour; they sit beside each other. But the whole speech then talked about water allocation: how hard it has been to get consents, that they wish to be able to do it in a sustainable way, that it took 10 years, and that they had to invest heavily in getting through that consenting process with regional councils. I notice that the Green Party was very silent through that process, because the Green Party would actually encourage more of that process and would not want to see that water allocation happen in the end, anyway. I think that is the paradox that New Zealand First finds itself in. It is sitting in between two parties that have no concept of economic management and no desire to actually grow the economy, and yet at the same time tries to spout the rhetoric that it thinks the public wants to hear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis debate, unfortunately, has been about a lot of rhetoric on the Opposition side. The Opposition tried to tug off vulnerable, innocent people. It tried to use the emotions that people have and scare tactics. It is a shame when you come to this House and see the Opposition parties, day after day, try to prey on the vulnerable in our community by making them scared of what the Government is doing, when the Government is doing what is in the best interests of New Zealanders going forward. The Labour-Green Opposition does not have a plan. For all that it says, it does not have a plan to grow this economy, and all it does is try to frustrate and deny what is in the best interests of New Zealand. And that is a very big shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c9592f76ea64bdca1e901eb510ea3db\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What about the Job Summit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022450cfad5f7d2465f91766645dd240d17\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: And we have got the member across there who talked about a Job Summit, and things like the national cycleway. Well, they were initiatives that were good, but we are dealing with a big situation at the moment: New Zealand has been in recession because of the world recession, and because Labour put New Zealand into recession before the rest of the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022797757e666994d1cbd2dbbb4ef034dca\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296cdcb4274364f3881f2f2823a4cd8d2\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The Labour members over there may laugh, but look at the facts: under Labour\u2019s economic management, in the best of times New Zealand was put into recession before the rest of the world. The Labour Party cannot deny that; it is a fact of history and it is something that the Labour Party needs to acknowledge and deal with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWhen we came into Government not only did we find a country in recession but we found a country that had its future spent by the policies of the previous administration. A decade of deficits faced this country, without even having to deal with the recession of the world that was about to impact, and without even having to deal with the consequences of the Christchurch earthquake. To our credit, we have dealt with those issues. We have dealt with them in a way that has meant that New Zealanders have not had the burden of the sharpest edges of the recession, and that New Zealanders have seen a future going forward. We are doing that in a productive and successful manner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe are looking forward at a country and developing it, its industries, and its productive base. We are not looking at holding this country back through things like capital gains taxes, which the members opposite have confirmed this morning that they will bring in should they ever get into Government, and I see the Green Party member nodding in approval. The Greens and the Labour Party want a capital gains tax, so New Zealanders out there, remember that. The Greens and the Labour Party will advocate for a capital gains tax. They will look at hurting the most productive parts of this economy; that is what a capital gains tax will do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand First Party members are starting to bark in their corner. Well, remember this, New Zealand First. The New Zealand First Party talks about economic growth. The biggest impediment to economic growth in New Zealand will be Labour and the Greens, because they will want to bring in a capital gains tax. The productive economy of New Zealand, based around agriculture, will be the most affected by a capital gains tax. The Green Party is smiling now. It knows that is the truth\u2014that that policy will hurt the most productive part of the New Zealand economy. New Zealand First speakers will not be talking about how hard it is to get through the consenting process for farm development in the South Island; they will be talking about how the New Zealand farmers cannot actually produce, because of the capital gains tax requirement brought in by a Labour-Green Government if it ever becomes the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThat is the truth of what we see, and that is different from the rhetoric of what we hear in this House. In this House we hear the Greens, Labour, and New Zealand First talking about things like growth. They say the right things, but at the same time they bring about policies that will have the opposite effect, such as a capital gains tax. Do not be fooled, I say to New Zealanders listening to Labour and the Greens\u2014do not be fooled at all. They do not mean to grow the economy. They do not mean to actually develop you as individuals and as a country. They have only one thing that they want, and that is control, control, and control. They will have that through things like capital gains taxes so that they can control people\u2019s voting preferences, and that is what they have done for many years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E That is the true difference on this side of the House. We believe in New Zealanders and we give them that chance. We believe in them over a whole variety of aspects of their life. We believe that they can get a good education. We believe that they can get a good job. We want to give them some rewards for doing that and making the right choices, and we believe that they can invest and make this country stronger. We believe in our people. We do not try to control them, and we do not try to influence them in the way that the Labour Party and the Green Party do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThere is one other thing that I think New Zealanders need to talk about and that is the tax switch, which the Labour Party and the Green Party say was $2 billion given to the richest New Zealanders. That is simply not true\u2014it is simply not true. I ask the Labour and Green members, if they believe that is true, in their next calls to stand up and itemise each part of that $2 billion, to itemise each part of that tax switch, and to come up with those numbers, because they simply do not stack up. You need to take into account the whole programme that was announced at that time: the change in GST and the change in depreciation. The change in depreciation brings in $1 billion a year from the most wealthy New Zealanders, you could say. That is not taken into account in the rhetoric of the Labour Party and the Green Party, because they do not want New Zealanders to have the full story. They do not want the truth out there. They want only the rhetoric that they can push and pull to the most vulnerable people in this country, and that is really sad for parties that think or say that they actually represent people who need that assistance from Government. They do not mean it; they do not care. It is all about them\u2014it always has been and always will be. That is the nature of the left in politics, and that will never change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWhen we look at this Budget, it is a good Budget. It is a hard Budget, in the sense that we have got difficult times. We cannot go out there and promise the world. It would be nice to be able to do that, but we have to be realistic. In being realistic we have made the right choices\u2014choices that will deliver a stronger economy going forward and that will give our people the future that they demand and desire. It will not happen with the rhetoric and the approach of the Opposition members, who talk about things but will not actually deliver them, or, if anything, will deliver things that will hurt the long-term interests of this country going forward. I look forward to the day when the parties on the other side of this House stand up and say what is actually out there, that they actually believe in our people, and give them the credibility and sense of desire\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b5b51e3021a480b8bea774c6bb8fe03\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: And don\u2019t sell the assets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022699b5fe27eef456d8e81015737a59b97\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Now we hear the New Zealand First Party going back to selling the assets. It is another one of those senses of rhetoric. It is very sad to see that that is how the Opposition can retain and reinforce its debate. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u00229dabf51eb3564b20ab40d6e4c85b78ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229dabf51eb3564b20ab40d6e4c85b78ec\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The speech of the member who has just resumed his seat, David Bennett, reminds me of a line in Othello: \u201CBut yet the pity of it, Iago! O! Iago, the pity of it,\u201D. If the member wants us to itemise what is wrong with the tax cuts, can I just give two examples. When the wealthiest people in this country get a tax break of $1,000 a week and ordinary workers get $10 a week, the National Government needs to look at what it is doing and at the structure it is setting up in the taxation system and whom it serves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EMy greatest fear from this Budget is its timidity, its lack of vision, and its lack of boldness to do anything that is required to alter the structure of this economy and to assist anybody other than National\u2019s mates. The previous speaker tried to make a point of saying that Labour and others on this side of the House are in this business of politics for ourselves. I think the member needs to look closely at the kinds of contracts that Murray McCully has let out, to whom, and by which process. National members need to look at how, across the State sector, contracts are let\u2014not just by the office of Murray McCully, but others\u2014and see how many of their friends have taken up contracts in a way that verges on a word that I am not allowed to use in this House but starts with \u201Cc\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EJust when New Zealand needs bold leadership in economic management, we get timidity. We get the same old tired answers from a centre-right party that should be able, with its new influx of members over the last couple of elections, to engage with new thinking and new ideas. But we do not get that; we get the same old things. We get tax cuts and asset sales and, apart from that, nothing new. Everything else is tinkering. There is a danger in this, because this Budget is not just about the next year. This Budget is a symptom of the poverty-stricken thinking in the National Party. It is a symbol of the fact that this National Government has no idea about how to manage the country into the future, and has not the will to engage with the big issues. For example, we do not see the Government tackling a lack of savings. We do not see it wanting to make KiwiSaver compulsory. We do not see it tackling an unbalanced taxation system. Why not? Because it serves National\u2019s friends well to have an unbalanced taxation system. So, no, National would not introduce a capital gains tax, because that might even things up too much. That might actually discourage people from investing in property and assist them to invest in business, new ventures, and growth. At the same time, National can make sure that their mates\u2019 housing prices stay high, because it is doing nothing to address that investment and the fact that people like to invest in property. It is doing nothing about that area, which could have an effect of pulling down the rate at which house prices increase, at the very least. I want to come back to that theme in a moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EMore than that, we have a complete unwillingness in this Budget for the Government to address the big issue of superannuation affordability. All of those members over there, including the Prime Minister, know that the way superannuation is structured and the demographics coming upon us in short order mean that superannuation as it currently is is not sustainable. So the Labour Party decided to take that on and address it as a hard issue, as the facts became clear in the last term of Parliament. We decided to front that issue, but this Government cannot because its Prime Minister has single-handedly painted himself into a corner over this issue\u2014single-handedly painted himself into a corner. And because of that, the rest of them have to troop like lemmings in behind him. Very soon they will find the edge of that cliff and all tip over it. Come the end of 2014 the lemmings will follow their leader over the cliff, because they are not prepared to speak up and take account of the big issues, the structural issues, that are confronting the economy in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI want to take one issue in particular that distresses me almost more than any other, and it is the issue of housing. The Minister of Housing has done nothing in 3\u00BD years to address the question of housing affordability. There are economic structural things that can be done, such as balancing up the taxation system, introducing a capital gains tax, and encouraging people to invest their money in growth and development rather than in static assets like property. But, no, he will not take those big issues on, even when he was given an idea and a platform by the previous Government\u2014and I had the privilege of having the housing portfolio for the year before the 2008 election\u2014of taking the Hobsonville project, which put up the idea of building 3,000 houses. The planning that was going into that had got to the stage where houses were ready to be built. Of the 3,000 houses in Hobsonville, 2,000 of them would be market price houses, 500 of them would be social housing, and 500 would be affordable houses. So that is 500 State houses, 500 affordable houses, and 2,000 for all of the rich people who are friends of the members opposite and who want to buy in that lovely part of Hobsonville in west Auckland. And what has the Minister done with that? He has built 17 houses\u201417 houses\u2014and cancelled the rest of the programme. Why? Because it is in John Key\u2019s electorate, and John Key said in 2008 in the election that there will not be any of those nasty little State houses in his electorate and\u2014not to worry\u2014he was going to can that project. Housing is at a crisis point in this country, and there is nothing in this Budget that has been provided to address it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe other issue that is a critical lack in this Budget is the lack of a skills strategy. We have got billions of dollars over the next 4 years going into roads\u2014billions going into roads\u2014and nothing going into apprenticeships. The apprenticeship system has been shut down by this Government. We do not see the investment in young people. Had there been investment in young people that simply continued from where we were at at the end of 2008, we would have seen a readiness to rebuild Christchurch that is not there. We should not need to import labour when we can train our own perfectly well, but we have a gap now where a skills strategy used to be. There is no vision, there is no foresight, and there is no investment in people. The roads are there already. They might be able to be improved, but, as a matter of priority, putting billions of dollars into roads and not into people is a travesty. That is an absolute travesty, and this Budget will go down in history for only one thing\u2014because it will not be remembered for much longer\u2014and that is its timidity, its lack of vision, and its inability to think creatively and over the long term. That is what this Budget will be remembered for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022e15f22d7c0844e1a8da50aaf97d2b832\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e15f22d7c0844e1a8da50aaf97d2b832\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. I rise to take a call on the Appropriation (2011/12 Supplementary Estimates) Bill and the Imprest Supply (First for 2012/13) Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThis Government has been a poor economic manager for the economy. We have seen over successive Budgets no real plan for the economy, no real vision, and no real emphasis on the things that matter, which is our children and what we are doing going forward. All we see from members on the Government benches\u2014their only plan\u2014is to drill it, mine it, frack it, cut it, and sell it. That is it. We have seen over the last few years a number of terrible economic decisions that have been made. We have seen those unaffordable tax cuts, which were not cost-neutral. We have seen poor transport spending. We have seen this Government subsidising polluters. It is bailing out its mates, from MediaWorks to Skycity to Warner Bros. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett asked the Opposition: \u201CWhat is out there?\u201D. He asked the question: \u201CWhat is out there?\u201D. But to quote from the popular TV show: \u201CWhat is out there is the truth.\u201D And you have only to look at those Budget papers on the Table to see the truth. What we see from the Government and the last Budget, which is what these supplementary estimates deal with, is a Budget deficit of over $18 billion, which is a New Zealand record for a Budget deficit. We see Crown debt rising to $13.4 billion, making that total Crown debt $40 billion\u2014that is poor economic management. And we are seeing economic activity stagnate at levels just above a technical recession, and that is poor economic management. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe economic conditions around the world are concerning. We are facing a debt crisis globally. In New Zealand it is particularly important, given debt is expected to exceed $72 billion over the next few years. We have a growing current account deficit, which is at 4 percent of GDP, and estimated to be around 7 percent of GDP in a few years. We have massively growing inequality between our richest and poorest New Zealanders. We are seeing 270,000 Kiwi kids growing up in real poverty. We are seeing kids going to school without shoes, without breakfast\u2014real poverty in a First World nation. But we are also seeing a lack of vision from the Government. It has got no plan bar drill it, mine it, frack it, cut it, and sell it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ESo what has National done over the period it has been in Government, which these supplementary estimates deal with? Well, we have seen the unaffordable tax cuts. In 2010 those tax cuts, which were not cost-neutral, delivered the biggest cuts to those New Zealanders who needed it the least. We saw the head of Westpac bank getting $5,000 a week from tax cuts, and who is paying the bill? Well, it is those other Kiwis at the lower-income levels who are paying it through increased GST, but it is also future generations who are paying for that $5,000 a week tax cut for the head of Westpac through borrowing. So it was not only fiscally reckless, it was also immoral. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe have seen poor transport spending\u2014which the Labour Party, it is good to see, has come to the party on, as well. Look, this Government has somehow, in a time of austerity, facing the debt crisis, a growing current account deficit, and an $8 billion a year oil import bill, found the ability to borrow $14 billion over 10 years for motorways, with negative benefit-cost ratios. I would get laughed out of a business board meeting, or I would get laughed out of a council meeting, if I proposed a project with a benefit-cost ratio of 0.6, because when you are investing $1, you are losing 40c. But somehow members of this Government, and particularly Steven Joyce and Gerry Brownlee, have convinced the Government and Bill English to find $14 billion to borrow to throw at these unaffordable motorways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe are seeing subsidies for polluters. This Government has also found $1.5 billion in the last financial year and $800 billion in the next financial year\u2019s Budget to subsidise polluters, under its amended emissions trading scheme. We are not sending the right signal. We had Amy Adams go to Rio to rail against fossil fuel subsidies, but then she is quite happy to come back and talk to her Cabinet Ministers to keep this $1.5 billion in subsidies to polluters continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220959fcd5cd804d17a9dff924b6352cf4\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Just wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bff348ccc0e4dc6bd47de4907f6f195\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: It is a subsidy. The taxpayer is paying for it, and what you are doing is sending the wrong economic signal, which is to keep investing in polluting technology. Well, this Government, in its books, has got that figure there. It is the taxpayer fronting up, funding polluters. But it does not stop there. We heard Tim Groser in the House say he was quite happy for this Government to subsidise risky deep-sea oil drilling with a $25 million free handout in the seismic survey. When the Government is railing against inefficient fossil fuel subsidies around the world, really it should look closer to home. Action begins at home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EDespite all the risks with deep-sea oil drilling, it is not the only sector this Government is helping out. The clear theme of this Government is that it is quite happy to help its mates out. You see it with the dodgy Skycity negotiations. The Convention Centre is not going to be a game-changer. It is not going to help our current account deficit, it is not going to help lift us out of growth, and it is not going to help with the huge number of jobs, and it is going to be paid for by those low-income Aucklanders who are going to be paying for it out of their pockets with those pokie machines. The Government has got money to throw at Warner Bros and it has got money to throw at MediaWorks. This Government is all about helping its mates. It says it does not pick winners, but this Government does pick winners, be it risky deep-sea oil drillers, the gamblers, or the other sectors in the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWith the drilling\u2014which this Government wants to stimulate; wants to aggressively promote\u2014what we know from all the data is there is going to be hardly any jobs for New Zealanders, because it has put all the jobs on the skill shortages immigration list; hardly any taxes, because there are so many exemptions; and hardly any royalties, because we have got one of the lowest royalty rates in the world. In fact, we have got the fourth-lowest Government take, or royalties plus tax rate, in the world\u2014the fourth-lowest rate. So we know we are going to see hardly any jobs for New Zealanders, hardly any taxes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e29e35b63e804246aea4ebdc08164ebf\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: So what are you going to do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6f49a4bb48c4382bc358a1b023483a4\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014hardly any royalties, and we know the profits are going to go offshore. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E What we would do is not sell the assets, which is what the Government is doing. What it has done is it has dug itself a fiscal hole, and now what it is doing is selling the same tools that would get us out of it. These assets are returning healthy dividends, but what the Government wants to do is some days it wants to pay off debt, which does not make sense because the cost of borrowing is at an all-time low, and some days it wants to invest in other sectors like, again, more subsidies to its mates in the agricultural sector, with a $400 million irrigation scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ESo what we would do, as Tau Henare keeps asking, is keep these assets. We would use them. We would use them and we would supercharge them. We would use them to promote our environment and our economy, because what our environment Minister does not get is that New Zealand\u2019s economy is dependent on our environment. There is a global greentech boom happening at the moment. It is predicted to be an $800 billion market in the next few years. For the first time ever last year, and I am not sure whether the Government is aware of this, investment in renewable energy outstripped investment in fossil fuels\u2014for the first time in our planet\u2019s history. But this Government, for its inspiration, is looking to the 19th century for its economic inspiration, not to the current century, which is going to be framed by those global challenges like climate change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe could be using our assets. We could be supercharging them. We could be at the forefront of the global greentech clean energy market. We could be using these State-owned enterprises like Mighty River Power to be exporting that geothermal technology around the world, but this Government wants to flog them off and forgo the dividends. But worse than that, it wants the taxpayer to pick up the tab. It wants the taxpayer to fund around $120 million for public relations spin doctors. It wants to fund that $120 million for admin costs. It has got $400 million, approximately, for its loyalty scheme. \u201CLoyalty\u201D is the wrong word to use for this scheme. What the loyalty scheme will be, when we finally see the details and the Government has stopped hiding and keeping secret what it is embarrassed about, is simply welfare going to those New Zealanders who can already afford to buy shares. Again, it is going to be the taxpayer, those poorest New Zealanders, who are subsidising those New Zealanders who have the resources to purchase these shares\u2014welfare for the rich, through the loyalty scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThere is a better way. We could be supercharging our assets. We could be rebalancing our economy towards more sustainable production. Drill it, mine it, frack it is not going to cut it in the 21st century. There is a whole host of smart, green economics we could be using. There is a $6 trillion global green race, as Pure Advantage pointed out recently. We started in a wonderful position. We had such a head start over many other nations, but this Government has squandered its lead. It is looking to the 19th century for inspiration. We should be extending the insulation scheme. We should be increasing the minimum wage to $15 an hour. We should be boosting research and development. We should be putting a real price on carbon to promote a low-carbon economy. We should be reducing KiwiSaver account fees by having a public option. There is a whole host of things we could be doing. Drill it, mine it, frack it, cut it, sell it is not in New Zealand\u2019s interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022cfe75ebfcbd04b17a7b825c4f10cc381\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cfe75ebfcbd04b17a7b825c4f10cc381\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E This, I firmly believe, is a Budget that delivers a moderate and balanced approach for managing this Government\u2019s finances, because although the Opposition continues to be determinedly unrealistic, we know how important it is to focus on what is important\u2014to focus on what is important to improving the quality of people\u2019s lives. That is what this Government is committed to doing\u2014to giving money to those who need it, not just to those who say they need it, who create a lot of noise, and who have their hands out all the time. This is about looking beyond the obvious, and drilling down and targeting the money and the resources to the people who are genuinely in need. We are a realistic Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to the twin areas of health and welfare in particular, these reforms, I think, are first-class illustrations of how this Budget is making a difference to New Zealanders lives and building a brighter future. I commend Minister Paula Bennett for her courageous and far-reaching welfare reforms. She boldly and fearlessly goes where others would not. Twelve percent of our working-age population is on a benefit. That is completely unacceptable. We have 220,000 children living in welfare-dependent homes. That is also unacceptable. It is trapping families into poverty, it is costing too much money, and this Government firmly believes that those who can work should work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ELet us look at what we have delivered in this zero Budget, because although we need to have a Budget that is tight in these difficult financial times, we are directing and targeting that money, as I said, to where it is required. Budget 2012 is investing up front in welfare some $287.5 million over 4 years. That is supporting stage one of our welfare reforms. This upfront investment is really going to help support New Zealanders on welfare to go into work, to leave behind that dependency. And in the meantime, as a result of that, we will be saving for New Zealand taxpayers about $1 billion. Let us look at the numbers: $80 million is going into early childhood education. We absolutely appreciate that young people\u2014our very, very young\u2014need all the help that they can get from a very early age. That is why we are so committed to it. Guaranteed childcare assistance payments\u2014this is the sort of thing that is really going to help. And we are targeting the Pasifika communities\u2014those who have not traditionally taken advantage of childcare facilities. We have increased that by 10 percent in the first 3 years of this Government, and with the money, resources, and intelligent policies that we are bringing into play here, that will increase. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWe have $55 million for 155 dedicated Work and Income support staff at the front line to support job seekers and sole parents into work. That is a good thing. We will spend $148 million on better youth services, as well, to work particularly with young people who are disengaged and unemployed. These are the priorities that Minister Bennett and this Government have. We are addressing health issues and vulnerable young people in particular. When it comes to health, this is something that I observed over 30 years in the media: health is often a story that is in the news when you have centre-right parties, because there is a tendency to target that money, and there are people who feel left out about that. So in this Government, under the leadership of Tony Ryall in the past 3\u00BD years, we have seen that free-wheeling spending under Labour, which achieved very little and got us into very difficult situations, turned round. I commend Tony Ryall who in the past 3\u00BD years, and, in particular, in this latest Budget, has really made a difference. I need to look no further than in my own electorate of the North Shore. The Waitemat\u0101 District Health Board used to be in the news for all the wrong reasons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242912cf3db104908bc11a09590f68228\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Corridors!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225296522c7cea40789db5815f1348f1d8\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: People in corridors\u2014exactly, Mr Auchinvole. People who were unable to get into hospitals were waiting for unacceptably long periods of time to get into the accident and emergency department. The waiting time targets were met something like only 61 percent of the time. That is not good enough\u2014absolutely not good enough. That is why we set targets. So, in the meantime, what we have been doing now, since Tony Ryall appointed Lester Levy, who has taken a very firm view on what the Waitemat\u0101 District Health Board was doing, is put some more money into it where it is required. We have seen that, amazingly, go up to more than 95 percent\u201495 percent\u2014so we have met that target, and we have exceeded it. So we are now able in the North Shore Hospital to admit, discharge, or transfer patients within that 6 hours. That is a tremendous achievement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWhen you set targets, you can measure them. They are achievable targets, they are ones that we are firmly focused on, and we direct people in the Public Service to achieve those. If they do not, it is at their cost. When I look at what has happened, particularly in Waitemat\u0101, I am very encouraged as a local member of Parliament. On the North Shore, I get many people contacting me on a weekly basis, telling me good news stories about their experiences with North Shore Hospital. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfe975b51087499db5751b554bee586d\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Constituents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267cfe2ab0ad14fd49cac577344d1fbd6\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: These are real constituents, not just people like \u201CMr Spray and Walk Away\u201D. [Interruption] Yes, he is, indeed. As my colleagues Todd McClay and Michael Woodhouse have pointed out, he is the gift that just keeps on giving. The North Shore was in a difficult situation, and as a result of what this Government and, in particular, the health Minister, Tony Ryall, have done with the North Shore Hospital, that situation has been turned round.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E It has come at a cost. Over the past 3 years the Government has invested $1.5 billion of new money into the public health service\u2014[Interruption]\u2014$1.5 billion, indeed. In these very difficult financial times we have found that money because we have prioritised it. Of that amount, $153 million extra funding has gone into the Waitemat\u0101 District Health Board. That has been put into the facilities that I have mentioned, the emergency care departments, the new dialysis centre, and a new elective surgery centre. These are the sorts of measures that are really making a difference to people\u2019s lives. I would ask Opposition members to listen and to pay attention to what we have done\u2014they might learn something. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWhen I look at what the district health boards are doing by focusing on health targets\u2014and, again, targets and control are uncharted territories for the people on the Opposition benches\u2014they are the reason why this Government is making gains in tough times. So we have improved access to elective procedures, there are much shorter waits for cancer treatment\u2014and I will come back to that in a moment\u2014there are shorter stays in the emergency department, and we have targeted increased immunisation again and reducing the incidence of rheumatic fever. Illnesses such as those should not be around. We have those things in our sights and we will make sure that we make huge gains on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWe have better results for people who are trying to give up smoking. We are working closely with Tariana Turia and those in the M\u0101ori Party around those measures, because these are vital measures to the M\u0101ori community, Pacific Islanders, and, indeed, to all New Zealanders. We are making sure that there is help there for smokers who want to quit and to help themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWe also have more heart and diabetes checks. Again we are looking at trying to get the information to help people at an earlier stage of their care, rather than much further down the track when it is going to be much more expensive not just in terms of dollars but also in terms of the emotional toll that it takes on people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI am particularly encouraged by what we have done in this Budget when it comes to cancer treatment. For anyone who has been through that journey themselves or has had a loved one go through it, you might be aware that some patients might have to explain their treatments, symptoms, and the problems that they are having to up to 30 doctors, and many more nurses than that. This adds unacceptable strain to many cancer patients. These are people who are already suffering enough, and who need treatment of the most appropriate kind and in a timely fashion. As a result of the extra money that we have put into that\u2014some $33 million\u2014we have appointed designated cancer nurses, who will be able to assist that individual going through the treatment and their families to know who to go to and when. They will be able to get to specialist care more quickly. They will emerge through the system and through their treatment in the knowledge that they have not wasted their precious time and their precious energy on informing bureaucrats and filling out forms. The essence of what we are trying to do in health is encapsulated with cancer patients, because it is about helping individuals, and helping them to help themselves, but making it as easy as possible to navigate things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EFrom 1 July, in fact, district health boards\u2014in particular, my one at Waitemat\u0101 District Health Board\u2014are collecting data at key points along the patient\u2019s clinical journey. Why are we doing that? Because we need to be able to measure and hold accountable the system, and, if it is not delivering, we will land on them. We are improving public services and we will continue to do so, and that is because we are holding them accountable. But, yes, we are compassionate. We are not leaving people who need us\u2014vulnerable people\u2014out in the cold because they are waiting at the end of a long queue. We are targeting, focusing on, and helping those people, and that is really making a difference to people\u2019s lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe policies of our Government, I believe, and in particular this Budget, in these difficult times will result, as Bill English said earlier this morning, in a moderate growth to our economy. We will bring the books back into balance. We have, under the charismatic and visionary leadership of John Key, a very intelligent Cabinet and a united and wise caucus, which will see through the policies with a rigour and a tenacity that will make a difference to people\u2019s lives, and will, indeed, build a brighter future for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00222fb63402cc7a4cf6b49b34ad7b3fc80c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fb63402cc7a4cf6b49b34ad7b3fc80c\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to contribute to the second reading debate on the Appropriation (2011/12 Supplementary Estimates) Bill. When the Minister of Finance, Bill English, introduced this debate, he said that this bill carries on the same theme as the Budget. I noticed that Minister Parata paled at those words, thinking of those days of agony that she had to go through when, first of all, she had to admit to the entire House that, no, she had not asked for any information at all in relation to what impact the Budget cuts in the education sector would have on the number of children who were going to be in classrooms around our country. She seemed surprised that we would expect her, as the Minister of Education, to have asked for that information. Then she had to, tragically, come down to the House and correct her answer, having denied receiving such information, because in fact her office had received the information. So not only did she not bother asking for it; she did not even know that her office had received it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EHeaven only knows what her Cabinet colleagues thought when they signed off the education budget cuts. Did they not think about what the implications will be in our classrooms for our children and the quality of their education? But, of course, the Prime Minister rode to the rescue of the poor and by then stunned and silent Minister and said: \u201CNo, we\u2019re going to put a cap on these changes, on these cuts to education in this year\u2019s Budget.\u201D So National announced this great fix, and then just a week later it said: \u201CThe deal\u2019s off. We\u2019re going to have to find the money somewhere else.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESo when Bill English said that this bill is going along the same lines as the Budget, I must admit that my heart went out to Minister Parata. I thought: \u201CThat\u2019s really cruel. I hope she doesn\u2019t have to go through that same week and a half of embarrassment again.\u201D For the Minister of Education to not know that when you cut the education budget, when you change the ratio in the classrooms, it will have an impact on the number of children in each classroom in every school, and that, undoubtedly, that has an impact on the quality of education\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb274a5dc7fd480ba32b20fd87791ab4\u0022\u003EHon Hekia Parata\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, really?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8f9ab85a10d477a9f8bd8a69d40d8cd\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s learning. She said \u201Creally\u201D. She\u2019s picked it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e8cf7e7a45c46188f621cf3d5f37395\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not think the Minister has quite grasped the point yet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2985c0e6f054ad98f143cc6c597641c\u0022\u003EHon Hekia Parata\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cc86fc59ce54aca9c87a20f92586759\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: She laughs at parents, she laughs at teachers, and she laughs at the anger that people felt when they were told that their child could have another five or so children in their classroom and it would not make any difference. That is not what teachers, parents, or even children feel about what we all want, and that is quality outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EBill English said this bill is going to be along the same lines as the Budget. Well, that just means there is nothing in it that has any leadership, any aspiration, any vision for New Zealand. It was an absolutely zero Budget. It missed out on all the opportunities that New Zealanders would love to see coming from the Government, all the opportunities that New Zealand would thrive on, that New Zealanders are crying out to see. Instead, we got a Budget where the centre point was, really, taking money out of the pockets of paper boys. That was the high point. That was the inspiration from Bill English that we got to see in the Budget: \u201CLet\u2019s turn the poor little paper boys upside down, rattle their ankles, and see whether we can get a few coins out of their pockets.\u201D A pitiful amount of money, but taxing paper boys was a key element.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe other piece of legislation that came in, of course, under urgency in the Budget was capping the amount of money that people could keep for themselves, to leave to their families, in those final days of their lives when they were living in a rest home. Their having had an annual increase of $10,000 in the asset threshold, the Government said: \u201CNo, that\u2019s too much. We don\u2019t want elderly people to keep that sort of money. We want them to pay it to us\u2019\u2019\u2014to the Government\u2014\u201Cfor their rest home care.\u201D So National put a stop on that, as well. So we saw the most vulnerable people in our communities\u2014older people who live in rest homes or in hospitals\u2014being affected, and the youngest in our community who are doing a few hours\u2019 work a week doing paper runs getting taxed on that money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI think that if anyone from any other country in the world heard those two policies as centre points of the Budget, they would be hanging out for the next page of the Budget document. But it was not there. There was nothing at all providing any vision or providing any leadership. That is what New Zealand wants at the moment. That is what New Zealand needs, so that we can go back to playing our part as a strong contributor to the international economy. National has put its head in the sand over the most important issues facing New Zealand\u2014over superannuation, over economic growth, over any vision and foresight for where New Zealand is going to go in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E In my view it is not just a lazy thing; it is shirking the legitimate responsibility of a Government. There are hard decisions for a Government to make. There are decisions that should be made that will challenge its popularity, even. In my view, and it was certainly the view expressed by the Hon Simon Power in his valedictory speech to this House, that is part of the privilege of the responsibility of Government\u2014facing up to those hard decisions, and making them for the betterment of the whole nation; not for the popularity polls, but for what is best for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWe know that in any Budget there are choices, there are alternatives, and there are different ways that different political parties look at things. I did have to have a little chuckle, though, at the member Maggie Barry, who resumed her seat immediately prior to me, when she started boasting about targets that had been set by the National Government. She said: \u201CWe set these targets so that we meet them.\u201D Well, I would be quite keen to know what happened to the 4 percent growth that John Key predicted. In the Budget, the measures of which we are debating, the growth rate is set at 2.6 percent. That is quite a gap between a target that was set and a target that was met.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ELast year John Key, the Prime Minister, said we would have 170,000 new jobs created. This Budget, which we have just finished debating, cut that target by 16,000. Those are not just figures. Those are real people who cannot get paid employment even though they desperately want to, because the target that John Key as the Prime Minister set was not met\u2014another target not met by the Government. Last week he said that exports were rising. Well, the latest statistics show that exports fell in the last 12 months by 17 percent. That is $800 million worth of exports. So the trend in exports is going down rather than going up. That is another target that was not met. Last year the Prime Minister said that we would get real growth in wages this year. We have seen it peak at just 1.5 percent, and now it is trending down again. That is not a set of targets that have been set and then are met; that is a set of targets that John Key, the Prime Minister, promised New Zealand, and then he and his Government failed to meet those targets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThere are alternatives, as there always are. There are alternatives for this Government to step up to the mark and face up to, and to deliver; or the voters of New Zealand can elect another Government that can provide a different way of leading our nation. We do need leadership that is willing to make the tough decisions, and that is not prepared to say: \u201CWe will put our heads in the sand, we will bury the hard issues, and we hope they will go away.\u201D We need to ensure that we do support businesses to create new jobs and support higher incomes for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EReaching the surplus seems to be the only target that this Government has. It is even prepared to sell New Zealand - owned assets in order to achieve that surplus. Well, of course reaching a surplus is important, but a single-minded approach of reaching a surplus is not good enough. The sacrifices that the National Government is making New Zealanders and our economy pay in order to reach that surplus are just unfair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIt is not about spending more money, which is always the National Party\u2019s chant. That is not the position that Labour has always espoused. It is about making the right choices. It is about looking at the options for the Budget, and saying what our priority is, and what the best way is to invest in New Zealand now, so that as we move out of difficult financial times New Zealand and New Zealanders are on a stronger footing to take advantage of the better economic times. We have seen alternatives tried in other countries. The Budget and this Appropriation (2011/12 Supplementary Estimates) Bill are a wasted opportunity from the National Government. The bill is a continuation of a zero Budget with no ideas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022138a8006fa814bd991b455c978874e5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022138a8006fa814bd991b455c978874e5e\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Better financial times\u2014that is what the previous speaker, Ruth Dyson, mentioned. That is exactly what this Government is leading this nation into, through its 3\u00BD years of strong, stable, responsible Government, and it is so essential. In the year when we took the reins of office, the financial crisis had reached its peak, and the New Zealand economy, which had gone into recession before anyone else, had shrunk 3 percent, topping off 5 years of historically low growth. Exports had flattened out completely. We know that the tradable sector had been in recession since 2004. So this country was on its knees and desperately needed some wise, stable, strong, responsible Government, and this is what we are presenting. It is prudent, it is moderate, but it is balanced. We are presenting a Budget for the time that also has an eye for the future. We are very much part of a Government that is building a strategy for a competitive economy domestically, and internationally as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EOne of the biggest input costs to New Zealand consumers and businesses is electricity. We have worked very strongly in this particular area. The Electricity Industry Act 2010 was a redraft of the electricity landscape. It was a structural reform to electricity retailing, which is bringing benefits through to industry and also to consumers. I mentioned last night, and I will mention again today, that an example of this is the What\u2019s My Number campaign, which creates transparency between electricity retailers regarding their pricing, and the associated Powerswitch programme, which means a consumer can easily switch between retailers. That is very important for this country going forward, because it begins to bring some real opportunity between retailers to compete for their consumers, and the benefit of that is not only efficiency, which we are driving forward, but also the competitiveness and the resulting price structures that New Zealand businesses and consumers are paying. That is very important in terms of this country going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ECarl Hansen, who is the chief executive officer of the Electricity Authority, said that that campaign originally targeted 50,000 unique visitors to the website it set up. That is what it targeted: 50,000 in the first month. In fact, it got 50,000 in the first 3 days. New Zealand business and consumers are hungry for efficiency in this economy, and they are looking for some price competitiveness. That is what we are doing in being a strong, stable, and responsible Government. We are working on efficiencies, because for many, many years we lived in this country as if money was no object, and the spending was prolific. But the result of that was not what people were looking forward to. Productivity was low for that investment and we needed to be working on that quite strongly. So that programme happened in the What\u2019s My Number and the Powerswitch programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWhat that actually achieved was a reduction in the CPI for the first time in many, many years. In fact, back in the December quarter of 2011 that reduction happened in a quite significant way. One energy company that has been cited is Contact Energy. In fact, that is a private energy company that was losing lots of customers because of that programme. Within the first month of that programme it changed its discount for online payment, which had been set at 12 percent, and increased that to 22 percent. So those are the sorts of structural reforms and changes that, particularly, this Government is looking at, and we are seeing that come through\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcf3057c67ba4b2d98e2806a0647bff3\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Is this the same speech as yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d799ccf45c2a42b3901bd967b0881c31\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is not. In fact, we are seeing that come through\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f50ab95405a438eb68611e788064f34\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Who wrote this one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e14c789c250d4613b505004fa44515fa\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: I wrote this one, Mr Mallard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225019b256acc1474390fb1925361d0bde\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: He wrote this one. He admits it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e2ce641b5434ce9acf3ab9d85f3bfc9\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I wrote this speech, Mr Mallard. This is the programme that we are doing: structural reforms that are building this economy, making it competitive, and enabling businesses in this country to become stronger and more competitive internationally, and that is what is going to enable them to employ more people. So it is not just a matter of the Government throwing out cash and increasing the number of people who work for the Government, which is what the previous Government did, increasing the core Public Service by 50 percent in its time. It is making this economy competitive. It is making it efficient. It is enabling us to compete because of efficient price structures\u2014internationally, globally\u2014in such a way that we start to lift our tradable sector. That is what we are doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI want to just touch on some of the aspects of this Budget around the area of the mixed-ownership model, which is now in place. This is hugely significant for this country. We know that the Opposition members have scaremongered up and down this country, but you know, we know, and all of us know that in January 2011 the Prime Minister started talking about this to the electorate and we went to the polls. The Opposition members went to the polls on it. That was their major platform of opposition against us, yet in the poll of 2011 National won the highest vote ever in MMP\u2019s history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI want you to listen to what the OECD has to say about this policy. This is in its April 2011 report on New Zealand. It says: \u201Cpublic ownership of commercial enterprises has increased over the last decade,\u201D. That is over the time when Labour held the Treasury benches\u2014that is what the OECD is saying. That, I guess, is the nationalisation of companies and just the general thinking that the Left followed through. This is what it said: \u201Cpublic ownership of commercial enterprises has increased over the past decade, which has likely restrained aggregate productivity by reducing competitive pressures and risk-taking, while discouraging [foreign direct investment].\u201D It said: \u201CCompared internationally, New Zealand\u2019s SOEs seem to perform better than many others, but there is room for improvement. These asset holdings are substantial, and moving towards public listing of state-controlled commercial assets and full or even partial privatisation would strengthen market discipline and transparency through securities listing requirements and legislation protecting minority shareholders.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EYou know, the question came up when Mighty River Power, which is the first State-owned enterprise that is going to be offered to New Zealanders, came to the Commerce Committee to report on its financial year ending June 2011. The question was: \u201CSo what would the benefit be if you were partially listed?\u201D The response from Doug Heffernan, who is the chief executive of Mighty River Power, was simply this: \u201CWe would have saved $100 million.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd189fa715834417a98c3bdf0c0a7faf\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a530d41f74b840cd8f913bcfc00be99e\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: It would have saved $100 million. That is what he said. You were there, Clare Curran. You heard what he said. It was very, very clear indeed. He said that although the State-owned generator had performed well \u201Cthe proposed sale of shares in the business will increase scrutiny of its investments, and will help improve its dynamic efficiency long term.\u201D Energy News, which was there in that room, reported that, that very day. Had the company been listed it is likely there would have been pressure to quit its landfill gas interests, which were non-core and non-material, much earlier. He told this to the Commerce Committee that day: \u201CThe company\u2019s investment of about $100 million in gas exploration in the middle of last decade is also likely to have been viewed negatively by the investment community, forcing management to act earlier.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWe know that the Opposition has decried that, but we know that market pressures create efficiencies. We know that competitive pressures create efficiencies, and the beneficiaries of that are the consumers. The beneficiaries of that are the consumers, who have better price structures. And this is why we introduced the Electricity Industry Act 2010\u2014to create competitiveness in the electricity industry. Back in 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007 under the previous Government, all of these companies were in silos servicing just very small groups of consumers, but through this there has been competition across the country, and through this mixed-ownership model we are going to see that productivity increase through those competitive pressures. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022770f166fcbd94a1291d6964e29f69e7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022770f166fcbd94a1291d6964e29f69e7f\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I want to talk about this Government\u2019s incompetence and its deceit\u2014its incompetence in running the economy and the incompetence of Ministers in their portfolios. Some Ministers do not even seem to understand what their portfolios mean, let alone grasp what their responsibilities are. This legislation, the Appropriation (2011/12 Supplementary Estimates) Bill and the Imprest Supply (First for 2012/13) Bill, sets out the Government\u2019s spending and revenue raising plans for the year ahead, and it gives Parliament authority for those activities to take place. But this Government is not going to address the big issues on the economy. The Budget does not do that. It is petty, it is short-sighted, and it is just plain dumb and nasty in parts. It certainly is not providing any new ideas to grow the economy. The only idea that this Government has is asset sales. That is proving to be a great idea, is it not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ELast year John Key promised 170,000 new jobs. Instead, we have got a Government with the worst growth record in 50 years, with more than 50,000 people leaving for Australia, 52,000 more in unemployment than under Labour, and nearly 50,000 more on benefits. Let me tell you what the Minister for Economic Development, the great Mr Steven Joyce, said to the Commerce Committee last week when he was put on the spot around those jobs. This is the great economic hard man of this Government; the guy who gets things done. He is the Machiavelli who pulls the strings in the back rooms. Well, let me tell you what he said. The chair of the select committee who sits across the House there, Jonathan Young, was there, and he heard what he had to say. He could not make a case. He floundered. He could not make a case to back up his Prime Minister\u2019s ridiculous pledge to create 170,000 jobs, because there is no case. Instead, Kiwis are going out the back door in droves; they are flying out, and they would be leaving by the boatload if the seas were not so rough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThis is what Steven Joyce said. When he was asked what his forecasts were in job growth in the different sectors to make up that 170,000, and how he was tracking them relative to job growth targets, he said: \u201CWell, actually we are making some very good progress. We are very comfortable with that 170,000 job target, and in terms of where they are coming from, naturally they are coming from a range of areas, right across the economy. We are seeing significant growth in the number of vacancies.\u201D But when asked for estimates on what work the department has done and the ministry has done region by region, sector by sector for that job growth: \u201CWell, no. We haven\u2019t done that.\u201D, he said. They have had a year to do it\u2014a whole year to do that\u2014to give some kind of analysis on where those jobs are coming from. Where are they coming from? When asked how many have actually been created, he could not tell us. He could not tell us, and that is because he simply just does not know. That is because, as with all the other targets that this Government has announced\u2014particularly the targets it has announced this week\u2014it just does not know. They are meaningless; they are meaningless targets that cannot be backed up, and essentially they are trying to pull the wool over the eyes of New Zealanders and tell us a great big story. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAnd then there is the pettiness and incompetence of other Ministers and their petty, stupid, misguided decisions, which are going to have long-term implications for our country\u2014implications that will have long-term effects for our nation. Apart from asset sales, the other big issue that is happening this week is the decision by this Government to axe funding for TVNZ 7, which is our only public broadcast channel. The funding was removed from this year\u2019s Budget, a big blank line for this year\u2019s Budget. Maybe the Minister of Broadcasting has not actually read the Budget? Because he does not seem to have read his Cabinet papers, or a lot of other papers, or even understand what his job is. TVNZ 7 funding was removed from this year\u2019s Budget and it will have huge long-term effects on this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAnd then you would think that Peter Dunne, the great champion of public broadcasting, would have made just a bit more of an effort when he negotiated a deal with this Government. Well, you would have thought that he would make a bit more of an effort. In the briefing to the incoming Minister of Broadcasting in December it was mentioned that in \u201Cthe confidence and supply agreement between National and United Future New Zealand, the National-led Government has agreed to \u2018maintain at least current Budget funding tracks to TVNZ \u2026 to ensure they continue to fulfil their existing broadcasting roles\u2019.\u201D Apart from the fact that that is a meaningless sentence, given that he was such a supporter of public broadcasting\u2014he rolls out on to the steps of Parliament to speak at the rallies; whenever there is a rally about public broadcasting, out comes Peter Dunne, championing the cause\u2014if he was such a supporter as he claims to be, why did he not make his support for asset sales legislation contingent on ongoing funding for TVNZ 7? Why could he not have insisted? Instead, the country gets its energy companies sold off to overseas interests and we lose public broadcast television, all in the same week. What a great legacy that is. It was a Labour Government that allocated $79 million for TVNZ 6 and TVNZ 7. It was a Labour Government that had the intention of continuing public broadcasting in New Zealand, and it is a future Labour Government that remains committed to public broadcasting in New Zealand, and will reinstitute it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAs was revealed, it is just plain deceit to say, as the Minister\u2014well, he calls himself the \u201CMinister of Broadcasting\u201D\u2014said yesterday, that somehow it was never the intention to do it. This was revealed in today\u2019s Dominion Post, where it was shown through an Official Information Act request document that there was a plan on the table; that there was a plan to keep TVNZ 7 going, and that it was this Government that axed it. It was this Government that made the deliberate decision to axe it. The Minister of Broadcasting shakes his head, but as he revealed yesterday he does not even read the Cabinet papers. He does not actually know what happened last year when he was not the Minister, because maybe he thinks that his job started only as of December, and he did not need to know what actually happened before that. It is plain incompetence\u2014plain incompetence. They put Craig Foss in as the Minister of Broadcasting, the \u201CMinister of Fumbling and Bumbling\u201D, who does not understand his brief, who does not read his Cabinet papers, and who allowed Stephen McElrea, the Prime Minister\u2019s electorate chair, to continue on the board of New Zealand On Air making decisions about public money for commercial purposes, and for programmes that are purely advertising-related, and that suit the Government\u2019s agenda. That is what this Minister of Broadcasting does. He does not even realise that he has got the power to approve spectrum allocation for public purposes. He is the Minister of Broadcasting, and he does actually have the power to approve spectrum allocation for public purposes, but he did not seem to realise that yesterday, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4798030134a4162af0cf7333ed8960c\u0022\u003EHon Craig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Have another read of your question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225de3a3c9e0244c27a1090d3f8bfeefac\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe he could actually answer a few more questions on this, because he obviously has not read the framework, where his policy actually states that he is required to promote local broadcasting services and to promote innovation and digital broadcasting. Perhaps he could answer the questions as to whether the Ministry for Culture and Heritage and the Ministry of Economic Development have reserved any spectrum for the purposes of non-commercial television broadcasters that seek to fill that void that has been left by TVNZ 6 and TVNZ 7, which have been axed in the latest Budget\u2014axed forever by this Government. Perhaps he should be asking himself, and asking for some advice from his ministry, about whether there has been any effort to determine whether other broadcasters are prepared to broadcast the non-commercial programme services, and, if they are, what he is going to do. What is he going to do? And how are those new non-commercial broadcasters going to fill the void\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240cf167aaff54a7dadfa222f8013c30e\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Your time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u0022c58a31af04984d1aa440a441461c8cff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c58a31af04984d1aa440a441461c8cff\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a privilege to be given the opportunity to speak on the Appropriation (2011/12 Supplementary Estimates) Bill and the Imprest Supply (First for 2012/13) Bill. I would like to focus on National\u2019s responsible management of the economy and on our goal of returning the Government\u2019s books to surplus by 2014-15. Just over a month ago the Hon Bill English delivered his fourth Budget, which outlined National\u2019s platform for growth and for building a more competitive New Zealand economy while delivering on better services for New Zealanders. Despite facing ongoing global financial uncertainties and the aftermath of the tragic Christchurch earthquake, National has managed the Government\u2019s finances responsibly without having to borrow more, and we have delivered and will continue to deliver on better public services to New Zealanders. In these unsettled times National can be trusted not to follow our European counterparts in bringing the country to its knees by continuing a legacy of debt-fuelled excesses. Greece, as we all know, is on the brink of economic disaster, with Spain following closely behind. The creditworthiness of 28 Spanish banks was downgraded recently. A \u201Cbuy now and pay later\u201D ethos has been the driving force for so many in recent times, and the end result has been catastrophic. Instead, we would do well to adopt the \u201Csave now, spend later\u201D philosophy of our Asian neighbours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThis outlook is one of the reasons why countries such as China have been growing and have been doing so well economically. China has grown to be the world\u2019s second-largest economy and a force to be reckoned with. China is still generating economic growth and is, inevitably, the country that New Zealand should focus on. Our trade with China has been growing rapidly. In 2009 our trade grew by 8 percent, in 2010 by 16 percent, and in 2011 by 15 percent. We are well positioned to reach the goal of doubling our trade with China to $20 billion in 2015, which will benefit all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EWe should embrace and regard our Asian neighbours\u2019 success as being beneficial to New Zealand. Not only has China become our second-largest trading partner but also it is our fastest-growing source for tourism. Tourism is one of New Zealand\u2019s largest export-earning industries and employs one in 20 people in the country. Recent figures show that the number of visitors from China in the year ended May 2012 increased by 32.3 percent. The spending by Chinese visitors in the year ended March 2012 increased by 20.1 percent. This spending is a gain for New Zealand\u2019s economy. I understand that Tourism New Zealand has a comprehensive strategy to further develop the China market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EAs a member of the Health Committee I would like to speak about National\u2019s success in developing a better, sooner public health service. Despite difficult financial conditions, protecting and investing in better front-line health services is a priority for the National Government. Announced in Budget 2012 was National\u2019s commitment of almost $1.5 billion extra over 4 years for our public health service. This will bring our spending on the health service to $14.1 billion in 2012-13. This will help deliver better operations and shorter waiting times. It will also help to continue the significant improvements under National that have seen record successes for emergency departments treating patients faster, record numbers of children immunised, record numbers of smokers quitting, shorter waits for cancer treatment, and more doctors and nurses working in our public health system. Again, this has not been possible without the responsible fiscal management by National.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d4f860e2bc449b9b5f3aea810e90b3e\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I apologise to the member, but is there any chance of talking to the people who are doing the volume? I think something has gone wrong with the sound system, and it is much louder than it normally is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214c3935e6933405da10c5c81ef29ba40\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think they have probably picked up your message and will make any modification necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2225d92000845658bd2586590a0069f\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG\u003C/span\u003E: National must be commended for doing its very best in guiding New Zealand through uncertainty, despite the tight economic conditions. We also have to address the previous Labour Government\u2019s legacy of mismanagement. This included giving expensive handouts and encouraging a culture of welfare dependency. For example, National has to mop up Labour\u2019s mess in chasing the repayment of student loans. National is working hard to recover debts of $2.6 billion, of which $409 million is overdue from overseas-based borrowers. Our scheme, introduced in October 2010, and which targets 1,000 Australia-based borrowers, has netted $20 million, with a further $2.9 million under payment arrangements. This scheme has now extended to 57,000 borrowers in Australia and the United Kingdom over the next 2\u00BD years, and is a priority for National. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ENational is being realistic, given the tough global economic conditions. It is so easy for the Opposition parties to say that we are not doing enough. They lack credibility on growth, jobs, and responsible fiscal management. Their alternative is to return to the \u201Cbuy now, pay later\u201D ethos, which I spoke about earlier and which has been the bugbear of many European countries. The world is paying the price, as country after country in Europe is at risk of toppling like dominoes. National, instead, should be commended for policies that will help steer New Zealand through tough economic times, getting our books back into surplus by 2014-15, creating new jobs, and delivering better public services for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EWhat more approval can you get to support the fact that National is on the right track to getting us back to surplus than the International Monetary Fund June report that said: \u201CThe planned deficit reduction path strikes a balance between the need to contain both public and external debt increases while limiting any adverse impact on economic growth during the recovery. The authorities\u2019 plan to return to budget surplus by 2014/15 should put New Zealand in a better position to deal with future shocks and the long-term costs of aging. Moreover, it will relieve pressure on monetary policy and thereby the exchange rate, helping contain the current account deficit over the medium term.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThe National-led Government is continuing to do the right things. Our strong economic growth agenda, disciplined spending, responsible fiscal management, our sound economic and financial institutions, our in-demand products\u2014particularly by Asia\u2014and the Christchurch rebuilding stimulus are all factors that will support New Zealand\u2019s resilience and give New Zealanders a brighter future. I commend the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b760325f5c7e428b961303cc865144e4\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the member, this is the last speech in a time-limited debate. You have got about 9 minutes. I will give you a 2-minute bell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u002263cdc00cd4034f03812dfc0e88c3f713\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263cdc00cd4034f03812dfc0e88c3f713\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great pleasure and honour to speak in this Budget debate and to give the final speech. It is quite an honour. I just want to say I support the Prime Minister, the Rt Hon John Key, as well as the Minister of Finance, Bill English, bringing this legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003ELooking back 3\u00BD years over this Government\u2019s tenure, New Zealanders know that we inherited an economy that had some of the highest interest rates and inflation rates in the Western World. The forecast for economic growth when we took over the Treasury benches was particularly grim. Treasury had forecasted deficits of Greco-Hispanic proportions\u201410 long years of crippling deficits. Labour\u2019s great legacy\u2014and Mr Hipkins knows this\u2014which it likes to keep quiet, was 5 consecutive years of export contraction. The prolonged global economic recession, the Christchurch earthquake, and Labour\u2019s economic mismanagement have led to a long dark night in our history. However, after a long dark night we all know that there is morning again, and this Budget represents morning in New Zealand. It is morning because in New Zealand this Budget will balance the Government\u2019s books by the year 2015. It is morning in New Zealand because this Budget will deliver better Government services. Finally, it is morning in New Zealand because this Budget builds a more productive and competitive economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EUnder this National Government the economy has steadily built up to the point where 2,230,000 New Zealanders went to work in this country today. That is more than at any time in our history. Interest rates are at historic lows\u2014under 5 percent. They were well over 10 percent under the Labour Government in early 2008. In fact, inflation was over 5 percent in mid-2008, and today it is at an all-time low of 1.2 percent. Finally, I want to say that economic growth in the first quarter of this year\u2014the figures were released last Friday\u2014came in at 1.1 percent. That is the third-highest rate in the OECD. The Opposition might ask\u2014Mr Mallard in particular\u2014why it is important that we balance the Government\u2019s books. Well, it is important because as we look around the world\u2014and my colleague Mr Yang referred to this\u2014there are danger signs of countries where out-of-control debt has brought nations to their knees. In Greece crazy debt-levels led to a \u20AC130 billion rescue package for what is a \u20AC215 billion economy. Unemployment there is over 21.5 percent, and the economy has shrunk. It shrank by 6.5 percent in the first quarter alone. Mr Yang also referred to unemployment in Spain. It has hit 24 percent. The banking sector there is in crisis and facing serious downgrades, and a recession is imminent. In my view, this National Government would not allow that situation to happen here. It is through fiscally responsible policies, prudent economic management, and sound, common-sense leadership that we will make this country bolder, brighter, and better again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders ask what this Budget does to balance the books. Well, we have closed tax loopholes around livestock and mixed-use assets, to save $293 million over 4 years. We have removed tax credits that were no longer serving their purpose, and that will save $117 million. But what is critical, with debt in mind, is that the net core Crown debt will remain below 30 percent. This is a gold standard compared with the debt of other developed countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003ESignificantly, we are reprioritising $4.4 billion over the next 4 years to ensure that New Zealanders receive better public services in health, education, social services, and science and innovation. Why are we doing this? Why are we doing this? That is a particularly important question. We are doing this because these are the areas that actually matter to everyday New Zealanders. So in health\u2014and I am glad the Hon Tony Ryall is here to join us in the House today\u2014we are spending an extra $1.5 billion. Under his leadership we are spending an extra $48 million on more elective surgeries. That is right\u2014more New Zealanders whose quality of life will be improved under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9f55bca68104487b26c2453fb3e9d6a\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. Record numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232ff2b03af2a474f826a9ad069d95b7e\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CRecord numbers.\u201D, the Minister says. This Government will increase science and innovation funding across government to more than $1.3 billion by the year 2016. That is $166 million of extra funding, which will go to develop the new Advanced Technology Institute. This is critical because these are the investments that support the high-value manufacturing and services sector. These businesses have the potential to create high-value exports and high-wage jobs, while not requiring significant land-based resources. I see this in my own electorate of Maungakiekie through innovative companies like Rakon, Buckley Systems, Masport, and Compac Sorting Equipment, as well as Sistema. The recent GDP figures are testament to this, with manufacturing up 1.8 percent in the March quarter alone. This represents the largest contributor to economic growth in this period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EFinally, just on the Future Investment Fund, which will invest $5 billion to $7 billion from the partial floats of State enterprises\u2014and I again commend the Minister for State Owned Enterprises, who is in the House, for bringing the legislation through, which was passed yesterday\u2014crucially, it will contribute $33 million towards the fit-out of ultra-fast broadband in my schools in Maungakiekie, but also in schools in the electorates of other members of Parliament here in the House today. We are also investing over $88 million in a number of hospital redevelopments across this country. So we are investing in our future by investing in our children and investing in their health and learning outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EWhat has been clear in this debate are the ideological differences between those tired, pessimistic members on the Opposition benches over there, led by Mr Mallard, against these upbeat, aspirational members on the Government benches over here. The Opposition is arguing what we cannot do, while this Government is stating clearly what New Zealanders are capable of. The ideological divide is noted in a study by Harvard economists Alesina and Ardagna. Their conclusions were unequivocal. Fiscal stimuli based on tax cuts are more likely to increase growth than those based on spending increases. They added that spending cuts, which is what this Government is about, are much more effective than tax increases in stabilising debt and avoiding economic downturns, which is what Mr Mallard represents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EIn closing, it is morning again in New Zealand and under the leadership of John Key our country is bolder, brighter, and better. Why would we ever want to return to the profligate ways of the last Labour Government, which emphasised tax, spend, and borrow, but very little hope? This Budget sets this country on a path to surplus, this Budget puts an economic framework in place for improved prosperity, and this Budget provides opportunities for all New Zealanders to get ahead and succeed. I say again it is morning again in New Zealand, and I commend this Budget to all New Zealanders and this House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e8918d9e03884f9782fd37c714b48f29\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Appropriation (2011/12 Supplementary Estimates) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 8; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228283e8f5ef5b4dbbba9c1b6238e92019\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Imprest Supply (First for 2012/13) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 8; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022a904593198dc48fbbf8fee483dc21b53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a904593198dc48fbbf8fee483dc21b53\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in Committee for the consideration of the Appropriation (2011/12 Supplementary)\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00223c8ee8eed4794864a5ae68bb23abe31e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c8ee8eed4794864a5ae68bb23abe31e\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I was of the understanding that we were going to skip this stage and incorporate by leave the amendments that the Minister, I thought, was going to move. Is that not the case?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022468d4977e1974ba5b003c2eb2bab4660\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member knows that is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022884f54c0849948b09ed3ceea75321e35\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It is absolutely a point of order. It is a point of order before we go into Committee, because it was discussed at the Business Committee that the process would be to seek the leave of the House to incorporate at this point the amendments in the Minister\u2019s name to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228236fec15cfe427ea5bd5f05190ffe63\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As I said earlier, that is not actually a point that the Speaker rules on. If there have been some considerations in the Business Committee or other places, but the Minister wishes to go into Committee to have the amendments considered, then that is the prerogative of the Minister. And at this stage, I have no other instruction before me. So I declare the House in Committee for the consideration of the Appropriation (2011/12 Supplementary Estimates) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b649577a05744787b226e5eafa2121f5\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2011/12 Supplementary Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f97eabd49e504543a321e2b00e0346b3\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8f7f7f7e75e4c28a320f7f5be4dde24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8f7f7f7e75e4c28a320f7f5be4dde24\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The House is in Committee on the Appropriation (2011/12 Supplementary Estimates) Bill to consider the two amendments as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 43.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f77ba61da3c146b4a2b5d099a1fb2897\u0022\u003EClause 5  Interpretation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000320\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 43 in the name of the Hon Bill English to clause 5 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000321\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000322\u0022\u003EClause 5 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ed24c555c38244cca0627bd53426d31b\u0022\u003ESchedule 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000324\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 43 in the name of the Hon Bill English to schedule 1 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000325\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000326\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000327\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000328\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ad1ea412849d4151a08fdac7d6e19ee0\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6eacb05b93a4b83aef90090caf243f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6eacb05b93a4b83aef90090caf243f3\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Finance: I move, That the Appropriation (2011/12 Supplementary Estimates) Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ddae153e277942e9bed77316438d3e70\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Appropriation (2011/12 Supplementary Estimates) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 8; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227aab9dfec90c435d8a5af7db866badb1\u0022\u003EImprest Supply (First for 2012/13) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224f80580211bc4a70b1e5a01f30d18464\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u00229ce43134215d41bc9c495f49eb8311e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ce43134215d41bc9c495f49eb8311e3\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Finance: I move, That the Imprest Supply (First for 2012/13) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fa507840929d47268ba181fc7c3ee35b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Impress Supply (First for 2012/13) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 8; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000334\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 12.28 p.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012062660dd7c7eb0b34912992a6e4e75624dba000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"