"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e4dd5ac52b8143519fa14aa2f58a2e4d\u0022\u003ETuesday, 24 July 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002215dbdcdcedbe450ab780668478647855\u0022\u003ETuesday, 24 July 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000004\u0022\u003EKarakia.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bc8f3d54f5f64f118255633199a34cc7\u0022\u003EObituaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022279dc6c3d803457aa069b25d7c8c1d26\u0022\u003EMargaret Mahy ONZ\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00221f2cba9bb6ae4e8e995819c833652269\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f2cba9bb6ae4e8e995819c833652269\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to move a motion without notice about the passing of the famed children\u2019s author Margaret Mahy ONZ.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6ecf0dea43546b29aed384f278e1f67\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d34af7bfa0e54783bd91f66033bdbdb2\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That this House express its sadness at the passing of Margaret Mahy, ONZ, one of New Zealand\u2019s best-loved authors. Ms Mahy\u2019s books, short stories, and contributions to the New Zealand School Journal have been part of New Zealand\u2019s children\u2019s lives for generations. She is widely acknowledged as one of the country\u2019s finest authors and one of the world\u2019s greatest writers of children\u2019s and young adults\u2019 stories. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EMs Mahy\u2019s stories resonated with children around the globe. Her works were translated into a number of languages, and the accolades she received internationally illustrate her enormous contribution to children\u2019s literature. This is a mark of how highly regarded her work is and the high esteem in which she is held. Margaret Mahy was awarded the Order of New Zealand in 1993. She won the Carnegie Medal in 1982 for The Haunting and in 1984 for The Changeover. In doing so she was the first writer outside Britain to receive this award. In 2006 she was awarded the prestigious Hans Christian Andersen Award for her lasting contribution to children\u2019s literature.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EMargaret Mahy wrote her first story at the age of 7, and her first book, A Lion in the Meadow, was published in 1969. Since then this prolific author penned over 100 picture books and a large number of short stories, collections, and novels. Margaret Mahy left an enduring impression upon children\u2019s literature. I would like to extend my condolences to Ms Mahy\u2019s family and friends at this sad time. I am sure her stories will remain firm favourites amongst children here and overseas for years to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003ELet me finish with this final story. On my visit to the United Kingdom recently to celebrate Her Majesty the Queen\u2019s diamond jubilee, I gave the children of the Prime Minister, David Cameron, a copy of Margaret Mahy\u2019s classic A Summery Saturday Morning. It is a quintessential New Zealand book, which we thought would give the Cameron children a taste of what life in New Zealand is really like. The final verse of her story reads as follows: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EIf you want to walk in peace \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EWalk in peace, walk in peace, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EDon\u2019t let your dogs upset the geese \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EOn a summery Saturday morning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EMay Margaret Mahy rest in peace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022c33dadaa2f5e4978b259380e5d9d29dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c33dadaa2f5e4978b259380e5d9d29dd\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I stand on behalf of the Labour Party to also offer our condolences in respect of Margaret Mahy ONZ. Margaret was the eldest of five children, born in Whakat\u0101ne. She wrote her first story at the age of 7, a story called \u201CHarry is Bad\u201D. It probably signalled a rather different approach to writing than perhaps we had seen before. She wrote more than 100 picture books, 40 novels, and 20 collections of short stories\u2014a prolific writer in her time. Her books have been translated into 15 different languages and have sold millions of copies across the world. In 2006, as the Prime Minister said, Margaret Mahy became the 28th recipient of the so-called Nobel Prize for children\u2019s literature, the Hans Christian Andersen Award. She won many other awards as well, including the Carnegie Medal for The Haunting in 1982 and for The Changeover in 1984. In 2009 Margaret was commemorated as one of 12 local heroes and a bronze bust of her was unveiled outside the Christchurch Arts Centre.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EShe passed away after a short illness. Our thoughts and our prayers are with her friends and her family at this time. Personally, I remember reading to my children the story The Man Whose Mother Was a Pirate, and thinking at the time what an extraordinary mind had brought about that story. My kids absolutely loved it. I think the legacy she leaves both to New Zealand and to the rest of the world is a collection of stories that excite people, young people, and provide that sort of creativity in their minds. She will be sadly missed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022 data-id=\u002276e5f0995b724bec8df6098f54569066\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276e5f0995b724bec8df6098f54569066\u0022\u003EHOLLY WALKER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. Margaret Mahy once told a group of children that when she was young she loved stories so much that she felt compelled to start writing so she could squeeze herself right into the stories. She wrote her first at age 7, and that was followed by at least 300 more. In that process, she squeezed generations of us into her stories too. Her characters are part of our collective memory and they help us to tell our stories. Many of us grew up with her characters, like the lion in the meadow, the nutty Mr McPhee, and the man whose mother was a pirate, and we loved her magical use of language, like the \u201Cgreat piratical rumbustification\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EMargaret Mahy died on Monday after a brief battle with cancer, and our thoughts are with her family and friends at this hard time, but she will live on her stories. We will read them to our children and they will read them to theirs, and that is a pretty wonderful legacy. Her rhythm, rhyme, and rich use of language left generations of children spellbound, especially those who were lucky enough to attend her infamous readings, where she would surprise her young audience by turning up as a witch or another character, or by simply wearing one of her multicoloured storytelling wigs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EShe was the founding patron and supporter of Storylines Children\u2019s Literature Charitable Trust, which worked to foster in young people a love of story and recognition of the power of language. Through her many educational readers, novels, picture books, poetry, short stories, and screenwriting, she created an unequalled body of award-winning work that touched the hearts and minds of literally millions of children worldwide. We honoured her with New Zealand\u2019s highest award, the Order of New Zealand, and in 2006 she was given the world\u2019s most prestigious prize for children\u2019s writers, the Hans Christian Andersen Award. She also twice won the prestigious Carnegie Medal and received several honorary doctorates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EAccording to the Storylines Children\u2019s Literature Charitable Trust, Margaret Mahy\u2019s contribution to New Zealand and world literature has been immeasurable, on a par with that of Katherine Mansfield and Janet Frame. Margaret Mahy was a true New Zealand icon, an inspiration, and a flag bearer for our creative community. She once said: \u201CIt is in the nature of books, that they have the capacity to make you feel powerful about what you can alter and achieve in your life.\u201D I thank her for that wisdom, and with such words she will continue to make her mark on our lives long after she has gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EKi a Margaret Mahy, e moe koe i te p\u014D i waenga i te tini, e moe, e moe. R\u0101tou ki a r\u0101tou, t\u0101tou te hunga ora, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E[To you, Margaret Mahy, rest there in the realm of darkness among the very many, rest, rest. Allow them to rest there among their own. As for us, the living, I acknowledge you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u00221f6d62cbb7a241218fcbf931bbfd1d60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f6d62cbb7a241218fcbf931bbfd1d60\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of New Zealand First I echo the sentiments of this House. Margaret Mahy was a national literary treasure. Within her lifetime she wrote hundreds of works, including over 100 picture books, 40 novels, and 20 collections of short stories. Her contributions to the New Zealand School Journal enriched the lives of countless Kiwi kids by capturing their imaginations. In turn, this inspired generations of school-age children to take an active interest in reading. I know I spent many hours using those particular stories. Throughout her life and career, Margaret Mahy was the recipient of many awards. In 1993 she was made a member of the Order of New Zealand in recognition of her literary contributions. Her addition to that order, limited to 20 people, showed to all how widely regarded she was both here in New Zealand and abroad. Margaret Mahy was an inspirational figure, a great New Zealander who contributed to our cultural fabric, and I know that many families will remember well her story The Lion in the Meadow. She will be dearly missed, though through her contributions she will live on in the minds and the hearts of many generations of New Zealanders. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u00223254b35d5d9440318bed9bd1874f28ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223254b35d5d9440318bed9bd1874f28ac\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E E te whaea, e te kuia rangatira, moe mai r\u0101, moe mai r\u0101 i te moenga roa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E[To the mother figure and revered elder woman, rest composed there in the long sleep.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party joins with others in this House to express our great sadness at the passing of a dynamic and distinguished leader of literature, a magician of words, and a painter of the imagination\u2014the uniquely colourful character whom we knew and loved as Margaret Mahy. Last week I purchased a selection of Margaret Mahy stories to give to Benneydale School. Her books reach into the hearts and imaginations of New Zealanders. They give us permission to stretch the boundaries, to enter into a world of magic where the printed word opens our eyes to infinite possibilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EWhen asked where she lived, Margaret once replied in her classic style: \u201CI live in a place called Governors Bay \u2026 It seems to me a mysterious place\u2014a still, cloudy sea surrounded by sharp hills, rocky and bare but with dark bush in wrinkles and gullies.\u201D For lovers of M\u0101ori Television, this landscape came to life in a recent rendition of Margaret Mahy\u2019s story Kaitangata Twitch. That story had all the ingredients to draw children and adults alike to its tale: mystery, supernatural occurrences, fascinating characters, breathtaking scenery, and a strong cultural context in the relationships between M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101 and the association of tangata w\u2019enua with a sense of place. This is what she left for us: a sense of place. She has helped to shape our sense of who we are, to define our own picture of the world. This is something that all of us want to relate to, and I would like to say that I am particularly partial to her 1993 classic, A Busy Day for a Good Grandmother.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EOur heartfelt sympathies are with her children, her family, and her enormous international reading audience who have treasured the talent and the creative genius of such a distinguished and distinctive New Zealander. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022 data-id=\u00227696cdf889354019a6c4220cab5724a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227696cdf889354019a6c4220cab5724a0\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BANKS (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koutou. I stand to recognise one of our greatest New Zealanders. It seems a pity, does it not, that this Parliament pays such great tribute to such a wonderful New Zealander when she is no longer with us. It seems to me that it would benefit us greatly if we could say these wonderful things to great New Zealanders who have done great things while they are still with us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EBut having said that, I say there are few amongst us who can, as adults, retain their childhood imagination and wonder when looking at the world. While most of us go about our day focused on our daily tasks with little thought to our surroundings, these very privileged few see the world with different eyes, and she saw the world with different eyes. Margaret Mahy, whom I had the pleasure of meeting a number of times, also was a very happy person with a great sense of humour\u2014eyes that saw witches in the trees, lions in the meadows, crocodiles on roller skates, and nothing to do with Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EMargaret Mahy was one of the privileged few. As one of New Zealand\u2019s best authors, she was twice awarded the Carnegie Medal in literature, and in 2006 received the Hans Christian Andersen Award in recognition of her lasting contribution to children\u2019s literature. Thousands of New Zealand kids were introduced to Margaret Mahy through her many contributions to the New Zealand School Journal, of course. Her novels have been translated into many languages, so that kids worldwide can enjoy her works. Her delightful and vivid imagination, combined with her talent for writing, has taken most New Zealanders on a magical journey to places that only once have they been, and mostly in their dreams. Her legacy will live on from Governors Bay in her stories that our great-grandchildren will continue to read for a long, long time. Our thoughts are with her family and friends at this time. Margaret Mahy now walks in eternal peace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1d71d9b91bb491d81de4583937dfdab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1d71d9b91bb491d81de4583937dfdab\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I want to join with other members in paying tribute to Margaret Mahy, member of the Order of New Zealand, prolific children\u2019s author, and internationally recognised storyteller, who, sadly, passed away yesterday. Although those words capture the essence of who Margaret Mahy was, they do not really tell the full story. I doubt there would be many parents in New Zealand over the last 40 years who have not done their stint of reading Margaret Mahy stories to their children and trying to explain why there was not really a lion in the meadow, or that there were not pirates lurking down every street or road. That, in essence, goes to the heart of her appeal as a writer\u2014wonderfully colourful stories, comparatively simple messages, but conveyed with lively, onomatopoeic language that really had the reader feeling as though they were part and parcel of the scene, and just going outside to check in case there was not a lion in the long grass after all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EWhen you couple that style with the images I am sure we all have of this delightful lady in these bright-coloured wigs entertaining a gaggle of schoolchildren up and down the country every school holidays, and reading these stories, you get a sense of someone who was larger than life, who had a huge imagination and a terrific spirit to share with other people, and who contributed a huge amount to our country. Today is a day to celebrate her literary achievements, and to acknowledge that although her life may have come to an end, her legacy will be such that generations of New Zealanders will continue to enjoy her stories for many, many years to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EWe have lost one of our literary giants today. We have lost one of our great New Zealanders, and it is appropriate that this House pay tribute to her, to her family, and to her friends, and acknowledge the loss that they must feel at the moment. Margaret Mahy, great New Zealander, fantastic author, and friend of children everywhere, may you rest in peace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c0b105ae900644c7b58f276c2a9698d2\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a1a4b8167aed4aeb91e6a453e937437a\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225948b53686fb4a83b1e8032833c3ec01\u0022\u003EEconomic Programme\u2014Progress\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u00221fb305c9bbbe46689568b54d48ec89b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fb305c9bbbe46689568b54d48ec89b6\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What progress is the Government making in building a more competitive and productive economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00221dfe5651cf3247bcb02d205b8a374e0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221dfe5651cf3247bcb02d205b8a374e0f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Good progress. Household saving is positive and expected to increase further. Household debt has fallen from 155 percent of disposable income 3 years ago to 140 percent, although debt levels are still too high. The economy continues to grow moderately. Inflation is at a 12-year low, interest rates are at a 45-year low, and the Government is on track to surplus. The Government is also continuing to focus on the competitiveness of New Zealand businesses, to encourage them to invest and create jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec336c89005c4740b125f80ad5a61a84\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: What measures has the Government taken since 2008 to build a more competitive economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251720ca19a0d4670b4d99e342d628ad8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There are a very large number of measures, but I will mention a few: increasing taxes on consumption and property speculation, and reducing taxes on work and on savings; improving the quality of regulation that affects every business and every organisation in New Zealand; a multibillion-dollar infrastructure programme of investment in rail, roads, ultra-fast broadband, and electricity transmission; as well as consistently increasing investment in science and innovation, and many more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ff7d4b4345d4098bfd87fa1c5782514\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: What is the focus of the Government\u2019s business growth programme, and how will it contribute to building a more competitive economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b084ddea2bd459d96b1e69976f63036\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The focus of the Government\u2019s business growth programme is on doing whatever the Government can to encourage businesses to create more jobs, and you can have more jobs only by actually doing things. The Government is going to focus on export markets, on infrastructure, on skilled and safe workplaces, on developing our natural resources responsibly, on growing our capital markets, and on innovation and ideas. So the Government can lend a hand, but in the end a new job occurs when a business actually decides to employ somebody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e35cea56069745c8b7e18332a8e937be\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Are exports down, is immigration to Australia up, and are New Zealand\u2019s net international liabilities projected to grow every year for the next 4 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd556354396e4a59b36cd9de35c166ac\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Exports have been a bit flat, and that is because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f8154a4dc754397a3578e0d568e8351\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293b02530c0c1429eac4ebd9f987a1dcc\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, exporters are actually doing their best, and they need all the help they can get from a Government that is actually in favour of exporting and investing, rather than Opposition policies intended to stop people from creating jobs, businesses, and exports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddbec52546ff4fc5b9642560da8879f7\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: What are some of the issues affecting New Zealand\u2019s productivity and competitiveness?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9e2563147b044b5a61f3537d712e6a0\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There is any number to pick from, but one that is important is housing affordability. The Government has a strong interest in making housing more affordable, because a lot of taxpayer support goes to housing, but we are particularly concerned that there is almost no new building of houses for people with lower-quartile incomes\u2014that is, incomes in the bottom 25 percent. That is very unfair to New Zealanders who aspire to homeownership, and we believe that by working with local bodies we can increase the supply of housing and reduce the excessive burden of the cost of housing on New Zealand families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bc6a3b3e6c714ee4bb25abf153cd994f\u0022\u003EState-owned Assets, Shares\u2014Loyalty Bonus Scheme\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u002280f6af8c2a56400dbe46a37bd887097f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280f6af8c2a56400dbe46a37bd887097f\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement that $360 million is \u201Ca possible number\u201D for the cost of the loyalty scheme for asset sales?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7e9a68b27764470974eba5fa9a0459a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7e9a68b27764470974eba5fa9a0459a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I stand by my full statement, which was: \u201CI don\u2019t know the details because they\u2019re not agreed yet, and what the loyalty bonus might look like, but yeah, that\u2019s a possible number. I haven\u2019t seen their workings, so I wouldn\u2019t want to agree with that at this point.\u201D Now having had a chance to look at it, I understand that the $360 million number came from Russel Norman and that there were gross errors in the way it was calculated. Officials are working through the details of the loyalty bonus with Mighty River Power, but even if there was a loyalty bonus across the entire programme, the costs would not be anywhere near $360 million, let alone the $500 million reported in the New Zealand Herald today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc8b1dc10d9b4afdb105322d81005eee\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Given that yesterday he talked about a figure of less than half of $1.3 billion, he thought that $360 million was \u201Ca possible number\u201D, and today he is indicating $60 million to $80 million, what is the actual figure, and will it change tomorrow?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcff7ec14f974cd6b3f8b1f22fb72127\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The final number at this stage is not known. [Interruption] The final number is not known. I did not agree with the $360 million yesterday; I said that it is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf18ef06d69a426eb43200ede7b6b09d\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: You said it was possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223401d0d983d04bc398e29465bc4cd5c0\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014possible, depending on how it was calculated and by whom. Frankly, what we are seeing in this debate is that Labour and the Greens just make up all sorts of numbers. According to Labour, selling shares to New Zealanders is a Ponzi scheme. Well, I do not know; you know, there are certain things that are a Ponzi scheme, but selling shares to New Zealanders is not one of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022340f941a2ebb479fb15ace7411e10acc\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Prime Minister announce the loyalty scheme to the National Party conference on Sunday without actually being aware of the cost of it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f0db1fb468542eeb888db44b5f2f1c3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: What I indicated to New Zealanders on Sunday is that there are a number of elements of the mixed-ownership model that we are able to get out there and confirm. One is that the minimum parcel would be $1,000. The second thing is that there would be an unscaled amount of $2,000 for direct investment, and that there would be a loyalty bonus that applied. And had I known that there were going to be only 79 protestors outside, I would have gone and had a chat to them, as well. I was expecting tens of thousands, the way the Greens and Labour were talking about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edb5c03b30f0449bb2c00c42b874d5a7\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That was a straight, direct question about whether the Prime Minister\u2019s announcement had been costed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb3fc7f904144a2988852b475b4525cd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if that was the question, it is a shame that that was not what was asked. If the member had asked \u201CWas the Prime Minister\u2019s statement costed?\u201D, that would have been an interesting question, but that was not what the question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ac35b2ec7724e738d7998c538aec42d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Was he aware of the costing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207b04fa5709743cd85b8fa7616b4e4f5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The question was not as the member indicated. Also, if questions are to be taken seriously, the level of interjection has to come down, because the Minister\u2014the Prime Minister in this case\u2014is able to latch on to interjections and respond. If questions are to be taken seriously, then the House has to listen to the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e45626fe9fca41d39ece7d32b13e521c\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Did he announce the loyalty scheme to the National Party conference without being aware of the cost?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5e23c067c884d64b0a24c8af977bda6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I announced the intention to have a loyalty scheme. I do not know the exact cost at this point, but what I do know is that there may be no cost. I was taking this morning to listen to Morning Report. On Morning Report this morning, if I can quote a stockbroker heavily involved in the Queensland Rail float, which had the loyalty bonus, he said that the amount the Government receives for its 49 percent may actually increase, and that the incentive increase demand for the float from locals and paid by itself is driving up the price institutions may pay\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213c7c05418ab4e38a408490ec7e9bcaf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I think, given the question asked, the Prime Minister has given sufficient answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237282e2ffb8d4bcd9b7c734914516357\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: What proportion of shares will have to be set aside for the loyalty bonus, the settlements with iwi, to pay brokerage fees, advertising, and public relations fees?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a2944b8815a43ba877dda97ff7bc405\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: In terms of the first point, it will be the amount of the calculation done by those New Zealanders who buy direct shares up to the $2,000 limit applied by the loyalty number yet to be set. That will be calculable. In terms of the others, what the Government is doing is releasing capital under the mixed-ownership model to buy other assets. We have never argued that we are getting the absolute maximum price. If we wanted to do that, we would have followed Labour\u2019s model of flogging the lot off to foreigners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bea66f46d5ac4b72afbb9495bfaef3cc\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe m\u014D t\u014D karakia i t\u0113nei r\u0101. Does the Prime Minister believe it to be fair, just, and moral to be giving away hundreds of millions of dollars to investors for asset sales, when the redress to M\u0101ori for 135 or so years of Treaty breaches is capped at $1 billion, and how can he justify this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218662315fd26482385f4dc966112ce10\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, we would reject the first proposition of giving anything away. As I said, if you look at some of the financial advisers this morning, the argument is, in fact, actually that the Government\u2019s return could increase, not decrease. Secondly, I utterly strongly, strongly reject the notion that redress for the Treaty breaches will be capped at $1 billion. That is a 1995 number. As the member knows, there is the relativity clause and others, and I would strongly suggest that the number at the end will be considerably greater than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022846ab0e139d14de09ee18c1e83e6c7af\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Will the money to pay for the share loyalty scheme be coming from debt or from reduced funding available to schools and hospitals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227794883171a349e88772838b7d7e3dfa\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The net proceeds from the mixed-ownership model will be used to buy other assets for the development of New Zealand. So under a National Government $1 billion will be put into 21st century schools, and under Labour nothing will be put in. Under National $1 billion will be put into 21st century schools without debt. Under Labour\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239783682518e410c8bee1762738bddba\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The answer is interesting, but I am not sure it is actually an answer to the question asked. The question asked whether the cost of the scheme would be picked up through extra debt, or reduction in spending on health and education, from memory, whereas the Prime Minister\u2019s answer talked about what the Government planned to spend money on. So I bring the Prime Minister back to the question asked, and ask him whether he could focus on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da6345216dab41e6ad050fc935133474\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: There is a net proceeds number, and those net proceeds will go into schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c94dac7ea7be4e6695cbebf7c829204e\u0022\u003EState-owned Assets, Shares\u2014Loyalty Bonus Scheme\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc58a50e81a3416d918fe26114ca86d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc58a50e81a3416d918fe26114ca86d1\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for State Owned Enterprises: How many \u201Cmum and dad investors\u201D does he believe will benefit from the loyalty bonus shares under the Mixed Ownership Model?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022712d51b50d214ccdb0eec33e37fbf439\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022712d51b50d214ccdb0eec33e37fbf439\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister for State Owned Enterprises):\u003C/span\u003E Securities legislation prevents me from commenting directly on the expected level of demand for shares. However, in answer to the member, all everyday New Zealand investors who meet the conditions of the loyalty scheme will get the appropriate loyalty shares. The Government is very confident that all 4.5 million New Zealanders will benefit from a successful float, because this will help control New Zealand\u2019s debt as the world debt crisis deepens, and allow us to invest in building schools, roads, and hospitals, without having to borrow from foreign banks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213fd1e6ce3164591b4397ef26b7c2984\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that the result of the Queensland Rail share float meant that of the 80,000 local mum and dad investors, 50,000 sold their shares in the company before the loyalty share bonus eventuated; if so, why does he believe that the proposed share floats in New Zealand will be any different?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4bb033b751f4ecebbe8777c02eb120e\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I would have to check those figures before I am able to confirm them. What I can tell you is that the share floats in New Zealand\u2014the share floats that the Government is planning\u2014are different in the sense that this Government is maintaining 51 percent New Zealand control of those companies as a minimum, with a cap of 10 percent on any other shareholder. That is legislated in the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d82b680db9b4642810ff4276fcbd2c7\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Prime Minister has said, and this is a direct quote: \u201CWe could say one hundred percent of shares to New Zealanders, obviously we could say less, but we are targeting that eighty five to ninety percent and I\u2019m confident we\u2019ll reach it.\u201D, is the announcement of a loyalty bonus share scheme not an admission of defeat, that these shares will not be held by Kiwis in the long term, and that they will eventually be sold predominantly to foreign interests, in the same way that Contact Energy shares were predominantly sold to foreign interests?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227638765fd7dc42d88b9ee8f9db7f887f\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: No, because the Government is determined that there will be a successful float, because that is in the interests of all New Zealanders. I have to tell the member that the use of loyalty shares is not unusual. When a Government across the Tasman sold Qantas shares, it had bonus shares of one for every 25 held, to a cap of 800 bonus shares. Telstra 3 saw a bonus share of one for every 25 held, to a cap of 8,000 shares for the general public. And for Queensland Rail, it was one bonus share for every 20 shares for Australians, and one for every 15 shares for Queenslanders. I think this is quite a mainstream approach, part of keeping everyday New Zealanders at the front of the queue, and I would like to thank the Opposition for the great publicity it is giving the Government\u2019s loyalty share proposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9d0059301f141feb7630ae0a81c83e0\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Has he received any advice or reports indicating that mums and dads account for more than 7 percent of the population; if so, how does he reconcile this with the fact that, based on Treasury forecasts, only 7 percent of New Zealanders will purchase shares in mixed-ownership model programmes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238d4dfdc003e4b81b360d1546c7cf2f1\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has made it clear that this is a programme that seeks to engage support from everyday New Zealanders, and, of course, those who are able to participate will. That is why we have got the low entry-level minimum figure of $1,000. Many everyday New Zealanders are saving in KiwiSaver, and certainly in the Superannuation Fund, and they will get the opportunity to participate in these floats. And, of course, other everyday New Zealanders will benefit from the proceeds, which will be reinvested into schools, roads, and hospitals without increasing our foreign debt. As the member will know, debt markets have become more uncertain, with the announcement this morning that Moody\u2019s has put the German economy on negative watch, and that is part of why we need to control our debt here in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002278e74a7bcf61462ca47bb776971d425f\u0022\u003EState Housing, Auckland\u2014T\u0101maki Transformation Programme\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u00221925865bcdcd4d26b5a9a3c76e829ad5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221925865bcdcd4d26b5a9a3c76e829ad5\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: What recent announcement has he made about the T\u0101maki Transformation Programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab0540a9513f4dddb7b7838a4a96ac1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab0540a9513f4dddb7b7838a4a96ac1b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E This morning I had the pleasure of joining Mayor Len Brown to announce the creation of the T\u0101maki Redevelopment Company, which is New Zealand\u2019s very first urban redevelopment company. The company will be jointly owned by the Government and the Auckland Council, and has been created to take the lead in transforming the area over the next 15 to 25 years. Initiatives will include strengthening the local economy, optimising land use and existing housing stock, and creating safe and connected neighbourhoods. I would like to acknowledge, and take the opportunity to thank, the mayor, his council, and the T\u0101maki community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022942b7842a7cf465a854d8c97accf8565\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What role will the community have with the company and the programme moving forward?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234a1846411f9450ebffc83b30b3ff4a6\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: The people of T\u0101maki have told us that they are keen to see the T\u0101maki Transformation Programme vision progressed as quickly as possible. After examining a range of options, the Government and the council agree that the new company is the best vehicle to make this happen. It will be tasked with engaging and working closely with the community, as it is critical to the success of the work. A comprehensive appointment process for a full board of directors is now under way, and the Government and the council will be seeking to appoint experienced directors, some with links back to the T\u0101maki community, which is very, very important because we need their voice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b631a73d27c549a68965d93450fbe492\u0022\u003EState-owned Assets, Shares\u2014Loyalty Bonus Scheme\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u002284fedc04b9334bb7b5508e5e9424cfca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284fedc04b9334bb7b5508e5e9424cfca\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement in relation to the share give-away as part of his asset sales programme that \u201CIf the member wants to go to the Budget, he will see quite clearly laid out the Government\u2019s programme, the anticipated return that the Crown will get, and the costs likely to be associated\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u002208eec91f499c4a138783212e00abe4b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208eec91f499c4a138783212e00abe4b4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E The words before the quote are \u201Cthe members\u201D, but I stand by my statement, which I made on 20 June. The Budget does set out the returns and costs from the mixed-ownership programme. Ministers have since made the decision in principle to offer a loyalty bonus. We are taking advice on how to treat this in the Government\u2019s books\u2014for example, whether we need to make a separate appropriation for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fe48bd69e3a499383675c878daf6725\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: So is the Prime Minister confirming that in his answer to that question, when he referred to the costs likely to be associated with the asset sale programme, he was not accounting for the cost of the share give-away?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022694e81c236744d45a1296fb11bf9914d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, I would reject the term \u201Cgive-away\u201D. In terms of the loyalty bonus, Treasury is working out exactly where that might be accounted. Overall, what it has said is that, for the total costs, the best estimates are about 2 percent of the proceeds, but that includes a lot of other factors. It will come back to us with advice on how it should be appropriated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022322a3624c30142a9b4d412956ae43641\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Government has previously said the cost of the asset sale programme would be about 2 percent of proceeds, or about $120 million, is he now saying that the cost of the share give-away, or the bonus scheme, will be a further 2 percent, or $120 million, on top of that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe2d9842d5344e94ab24fbf7b24bcdcc\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229964c0c0116e49f0a6c8627ede7253f7\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister understand that under our constitutional system Governments have to ask the permission of Parliament to spend money, and that Parliament has the right to expect that the full costs of the asset sale programme, including the share give-away, would have to be included in the Budget, or another appropriation, or a piece of legislation before this House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022421a8d5ccc664a7f9c3022863283bf2e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member is making some assumptions that may be incorrect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9285df8bc134f6daced78e139c0a4a1\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Which assumptions are incorrect?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227724746dea8c41a286999ab4be067276\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The way that the loyalty scheme will be paid for. At the moment we are taking advice on that, but there are a number of ways that it may be paid for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022042eb8d021b243e8acc3b35485153445\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Given that in his earlier answers to David Shearer he said that the way he planned to pay for the loyalty scheme was to hold some shares back from the asset sale programme then use them for the loyalty scheme, why would he not need parliamentary approval to give away those further shares, given that giving away shares is the same as spending money, and the Government needs parliamentary approval to spend money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225eadaeda0f2b428db0399b18913e66ed\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member is making some assumptions that may not be correct, like so many things he has said about the mixed-ownership model. But I can assure the member that the Government will follow the law. We always do on this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022727f2a39436946a7999bedbf59a1d064\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Russel Norman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1536ebb32e442b69df4be0f779bcba2\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2d6a07476474ff0a74bfdbf6d245a06\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Tell John Banks that! Tell John Banks that!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260c3ded774a24f7e9540e2467b49dbf8\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, tell that to \u201CBanksie\u201D!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c65c10084594d4ea37b1df83c7f11bf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! Goodness me! Dr Russel Norman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc93426bce844e3fbe5ff7abed5597a8\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: In light of his comment on the weekend that \u201Cwe don\u2019t favour one group over another.\u201D, why is his Government planning to make the 95 percent of New Zealanders who will not buy shares in these companies subsidise the 5 percent who might?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222de28b68b84e4bc190b970eb66dc9080\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Again, that is where the member is just talking rubbish, and has been the whole way through. For a start-off, there are 1.8 million KiwiSaver accounts around New Zealand. My guess is that a great many of those will probably participate. Secondly, the New Zealand Superannuation Fund is likely to be a buyer, along with ACC. They may well buy in these shares. But, most important, the proceeds from the mixed-ownership model will be used to buy other assets for the benefit of New Zealand. When we go and build a billion dollars\u2019 worth of 21st century schools, that member will want to be associated with that, I am sure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227987e8f5eb88411eab2668785a21f3a5\u0022\u003EEnvironment\u2014Mackenzie Sustainable Futures Trust\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba1c0853cf8147f9bb5fe635021d6b3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba1c0853cf8147f9bb5fe635021d6b3d\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement in relation to the funding of the Mackenzie Sustainable Futures Trust, \u201CI\u2019m sure someone will have a cursory look at it\u201D; if so, has he or his office investigated the funding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u002294e5f55a042e4beaa407cd9b596c9296\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294e5f55a042e4beaa407cd9b596c9296\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E As I said yesterday, my office and the Minister for the Environment\u2019s office had a quick look at the matters involved. We did not find anything that raised concerns to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022054c0b0d08fe4615acd305ad09def29c\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: As part of the investigation by his office, did they ask a deputy secretary of the Ministry for the Environment to explain her comment about the trust: \u201CWe remain deeply concerned at the level of professional fees being paid into this process; some of the costs charged also have us concerned.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ff50bf48e5645ad839329d30f1a4438\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure whether that question was directly asked. I think it is important to understand what happened in this process. I will tell you what happened in this process: a few hundred thousand dollars were paid to a trust so that a collaborative process could be used to sort out the problem. Actually, the estimated cost for the Environmental Protection Authority to have dealt with it was $2.6 million. By the way, Labour funded a $2.2 million contract with exactly the same organisation, Ecologic Foundation, for exactly this\u2014environmental dispute resolution through the Ministry of Research, Science and Technology\u2014and if you did not use it for that instance, what would you? By the way, $2.2 million trumps $200,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210ae2ed028a84373999b96d3dd9b7aa6\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that the $2.2 million contract he has just referred to went through a full, open tender process, unlike the money paid out to this trust?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223876db3f70864e71ab2588b8287451a0\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, I cannot confirm that. What I can confirm is this. This is a comment from Peter Wilson, the vice-president of Federated Mountain Clubs, in relation to this issue\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed88b2652d5f4f589abe04c8e74a4c8c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The question simply asked whether the Prime Minister could confirm something, and he said that he could not. Really, that should be the end of the answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6647be8267f4c3a8d629448b0347983\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: As part of his office\u2019s investigation, did they review the decision by the independent panel of the Community Environment Fund to turn down funding for this trust on the basis of \u201Chigh costs\u201D and having \u201Cno clear strategy, and no clear process\u201D, and did this cause him to question the decision of the then Minister for the Environment to directly fund the trust from ministry baseline funding, knowing that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8f4de62c1b948a08958b2a7e15f5a32\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, and I would reject that assertion. If one goes and actually looks at what has taken place, and one goes and looks at Peter Wilson, the vice-president of Federated Mountain Clubs, he said: \u201CI personally attended every single Mackenzie Forum meeting over a year and a half on behalf of my organisation \u2026 and I must say that the price of Guy Salmon\u2019s \u2026 involvement \u2026 would have been cheap at twice the price.\u201D And by the way, it was about one-tenth of the cost of going through a court process. That is why the collaborative process works. I know lots of people who support the collaborative process, because when it was set up for the Land and Water Forum, Grant Robertson said: \u201CThe success of the Land and Water Forum has been that it has used a collaborative process that sees all players at the table ... This will be a big challenge for local and central government, but offers the prospect of a whole new way of policy making that will be inclusive and durable.\u201D What wise words from Mr Robertson!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d463886725141d28728bfef543762bd\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: As part of his office\u2019s investigation, did they read the statement about the trust made by a Ministry for the Environment official that \u201CNow they are looking to get more cash from the Community Environment Fund and pressure us into a quick decision.\u201D in relation to a trust chaired by Jacqui Dean, and does Government officials being pressured by a trust chaired by a National backbench MP give him any concern at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217fbddedc9064a24aedc56973d4e90ac\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I think when it comes to pressuring officials to spend money unwisely, that member should go back and look at the whole history of the pledge card. But, anyway, going back to that for a moment, the view of the Minister and many of those involved was quite clear: a collaborative approach was a much better way of going, because it cost one-tenth of what going through a court process would have cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec4e419628f2431e93801a90b84ea779\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any other reports in relation to the work of the Mackenzie Sustainable Futures Trust?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022026ca49cede44f85a9b0c4807660e895\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have seen a report from Peter Wilson, vice-president, when he said this morning\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271210c15ee3e45c2983339e8e0d9623c\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve already done that one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a70f896c52542d497acbee2c5605ac7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, this is something different. You should enjoy the whole transcript. He said \u201CThis is utter tripe, and a good example of why someone should check their facts before spinning stories. I\u2019m disappointed that Grant Robertson took to grandstanding before fact-checking,\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221b7e77997474e94a2e23364c0438b38\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister think\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276a328b5d2ce4207828b82186323ca6c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise to the honourable member. He has got a good voice, but the level of noise was too high.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c02ba2a72f04d5fa4821ca373717308\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister think that a trust launched at a National Party Bluegreens conference, chaired by a National MP, and directly funded by one of his Ministers after it was rejected by an independent panel meets the standards of transparency and accountability for spending taxpayer money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf1f6fc3d3c14bb1a5f0b30eefbe4859\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and I think the member should check his facts. Let us understand what has taken place. In Otago there has been a substantial environmental issue about cubicle farming. There has been widespread community interest\u2014as I understand it, 5,000 submissions. This was a process that collaboratively got all members of the community round the table at one time, and did that for one-tenth of the cost of going through the courts. That is a lot cheaper and better than going through a court process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258a189ff9e4040588634acca1ac3cba1\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Would he advise local MP Jacqui Dean that instead of working with her local mayors on the Mackenzie Sustainable Futures Trust, she should have introduced a bill to Parliament\u2014overruling the Resource Management Act and the local councils\u2014to allow a friendly developer to pick up millions in windfall gains, and then pick up a $17,000 political donation for her services, an approach endorsed by Grant Robertson in the style of Clayton Cosgrove?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a75aef9c01c49edaf536813d63839cc\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is not my advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227efe1bfa2b454464b216a3f7438ac40a\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table several documents. The first of those is an email from a deputy secretary for the environment to a staff member at Environment Canterbury saying \u201Cwe remain deeply concerned at the level of professional fees being paid into this process; some of the costs charged also have us concerned.\u201D This email was released under the Official Information Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022031524f3b8fd4e7baf602509914b98d8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e839e5bed427440882717566c1177a56\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an email from a deputy secretary for the environment to another official at the Ministry for the Environment outlining the reasons why the Mackenzie Sustainable Futures Trust was not funded under the Community Environment Fund, including its high costs and that it had no clear strategy and no clear process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283a4c4c2232e471d868132fc07f1df27\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf0f296f340446d5a3a7ffce495eea77\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table an email from a Ministry for the Environment official to other Ministry for the Environment officials saying about the trust \u201CNow they are looking to get more cash from the CEF and pressure us into a quick decision.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c330174eca04e30af9722782650b2e1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022151bbe3a7b954568bcedf52407191184\u0022\u003EDistrict Health Boards\u20142012 Community Pharmacy Services Agreement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5a9c753de9a464fb7da121d8f0f75b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5a9c753de9a464fb7da121d8f0f75b9\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: How many of New Zealand\u2019s 947 pharmacies have signed up to the new Community Pharmacy Service agreement, and what does this mean for their patients?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u00227f3481f8c9114b97bcc8216a5a137700\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f3481f8c9114b97bcc8216a5a137700\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I am advised all 947 pharmacies have accepted. Under the past agreement pharmacies were funded based on the number of medicines they dispensed, so dispensing medicines was it. Under the new agreement we are rewarding our skilled pharmacists for providing support and advice to patients. In particular, around 200,000 people with long-term conditions will get support to better manage their health with the support of their pharmacist. They are a highly valued part of our health workforce and the new approach means we will be able to make much greater use of their expertise, and patients are the real winners from this big step forward in primary care for patients.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebadcd97806d490990f715b21523b96e\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Te Minita o Health: what other reports has he seen on this new patient-focused approach where pharmacists will better manage their patients?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbefa57f6e454d6f8a87b21359853103\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Although I am advised all 947 pharmacies have accepted the new approach and it is supported by the Pharmacy Guild, I saw a lone statement that the pharmacy sector was in \u201Cchaos\u201D and that the new contracts are \u201Cill-conceived\u201D, and, not only that, they were\u2014get this one\u2014\u201Cdangerous\u201D. Who would say this? Of course it was the New Zealand Labour Party, scaremongering again. This agreement marks a significant step forward in the delivery of pharmacy services for patients and pharmacists, and demonstrates this Government\u2019s commitment to better, sooner, more convenient health care for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c2af25b6d4747e6b43a44336e87113d\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: To the Minister o Health: does he intend simply to ignore the pharmacists who say that they have signed \u201Cunder duress\u201D, that the new agreement was \u201Cproblematic for rural pharmacies because of the change in funding model\u201D, and\u2014quoting pharmacists\u2014that \u201CPatient safety could be at risk \u2026 because pharmacists are being forced to focus on revenue-gathering,\u201D; if he is not going to ignore their concerns, what does he intend to do about them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022863a905e6e62464085a45286dc45b691\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: All issues have been considered as part of drawing up this agreement. What that member needs to realise is that although she spent several days in this House standing up trying to make all sorts of claims about this scheme, all 947 pharmacies have agreed. We are on track to a much better pharmacy service than that member\u2019s failed crowd ever offered New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ce744d900204f78be2078d9c0d5cebf\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of the many pharmacists who believe that the long-term eligibility criteria will not include the patients who need it most; if so, what is he doing to ensure the patients receive\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c664c52b7d44c3d94a3e75cae2fa382\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise to the member. I say particularly to the Labour front bench that the noise level is totally unfair. Barbara Stewart deserves the courtesy of being able to ask her question in a reasonable House. I accept that it is not the very front bench on the Labour side that is the cause of the problem; it is perhaps a little further back. But I would just ask\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022529d929ff63a45adbbf8d85773bbbaca\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: What about on your right, Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256b8ecbd88e04bc49040ff14c589fefc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I have been, if anything, a little harder on the team on the right today. The noise on my left has been a little excessive and I do want to hear Barbara Stewart\u2019s question. Barbara Stewart, please start again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251d1dd3bcd5c494abf46491590120098\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Is the Minister aware of the many pharmacists who believe that the long-term eligibility criteria will not include the patients who need it most; if so, what is he doing to ensure the patients receive the funding for the care they need?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8ee20632a5b47fbab36465c60689acc\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware that one or two have expressed that sort of concern, but we have got the Pharmacy Guild working so closely with the New Zealand health service in delivering that, that we know we are going to achieve something positive. I think the lesson to the member opposite is that although she might have had correspondence from one or two disaffected people, the vast majority of pharmacists believe the changes that are being made are appropriate. The member should actually get in behind the changes, which are going to be so positive for patients in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c89fd106f26145b8aebc0220dbdb66fe\u0022\u003ENew Zealand - Australia Migration\u2014Minister\u2019s Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc7a529ad27b4938abeb5aba2c1cca8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc7a529ad27b4938abeb5aba2c1cca8e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement in relation to New Zealanders leaving for Australia, \u201CWhat\u2019s the point of standing in the airport crying about it?\u201D given that 158,167 have left since November 2008, 53,763 left in the last year, and 4,361 left in June?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002223d8dc9683124f62a9c0ce9c75aa2e5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223d8dc9683124f62a9c0ce9c75aa2e5a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I stand by my full statement, which included the additional comment \u201CWe\u2019ve just got to compete.\u201D I think that is pretty obvious. If our younger people want to go to Australia to higher-paying jobs, at the very least in New Zealand we need to create some new jobs, in particular in the minerals and resources sector, which that member\u2019s party is quite opposed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fedf475040d84b2ba264298f59052628\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Then does he stand by his statement on Agenda in November 2008, when he was asked \u201CAnd what about this idea of people leaving to Australia \u2026 have you got a goal to reduce that?\u201D, and he replied \u201CWell we certainly do want to reduce it \u2026\u201D, and \u201Cthat was a demonstration I think of the kind of political leadership you\u2019ll see from John Key which is aspirational and taking a run at winning the competition between us and Australia for talent.\u201D; if so, has he achieved that goal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bcd96d50c274b44a0399927d72e9317\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I certainly do stand by those statements; and judging by the opinions given in Australia when the Prime Minister visited there a few weeks ago, they would prefer to have him running Australia, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec37d9bc128540b291246e1de5d45c5a\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Has he received any reports of any member of Parliament telling the Minister of Finance in this House that the reason for New Zealanders leaving for Australia is, and again I quote, \u201Cbecause of a self-absorbed \u2026 Government that cannot manage any political issues and does not care about the future of the country\u201D; if so, can he confirm that this is the current reason people are leaving, in the view of the person who made that very statement, the Hon Bill English?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ab96d22fd294b9fa86aa3d3c4eb032b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I do stand by that statement, certainly. What New Zealand is doing is actively compete for the talents of its younger people by helping businesses to create new jobs that can pay more. In the absence of new jobs that can pay more, more of them will leave. I think it is important we get on and support those businesses, whereas Labour and the Greens believe that it is important to try to stop anything happening in New Zealand, which will guarantee our young people have to leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbacd7a9d0024ec99ab54403698a5e86\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Massey University professor Paul Spoonley\u2019s observation that the number of young New Zealanders now heading for Australia is so high that it is making New Zealand\u2019s ageing population problem worse?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022972fb78bea924d22a9029f5dada84c6f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not agree with that statement. We are getting on with the one thing that will make a difference to those young New Zealanders, and that is creating new and better opportunities here in New Zealand. One of the major obstacles to that is the attitude of Labour and the Greens, who believe that any kind of enhanced or profitable business activity is somehow wrong and that we should rely on the Government to do all this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245ebc5d54d2143e0b8dc70dfa69d013d\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Will the 1,000-plus New Zealanders leaving each week to live in Australia be entitled to keep their purchased $2,000 State-owned enterprise share parcels, and will they still receive the loyalty bonus shares after 3 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022019fbdbbd577448a93995bdd04497d40\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: If they meet the definitions, of course they will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a6473b921d0d4713a97977af03b3f237\u0022\u003EOil and Gas Exploration\u2014Seabed Depth of Tendered Permit Areas and Management of Risks\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce18bd512d564694b97116ed24eb5131\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce18bd512d564694b97116ed24eb5131\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: What depth is the seabed in the areas covered by tendered petroleum exploration permits 12PEG2 off the coast of Wellington and 12GS2 off the coast of Otago and how does this compare to the depth of the deepest producing well in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u002253a69663c43442a9905bf0b51aff91bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253a69663c43442a9905bf0b51aff91bf\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E The deepest well ever drilled in New Zealand was the Wakanui-1, at 1,467 metres. The deepest currently producing well is the T\u016B\u012B at 125 metres. 12PEG2 covers depths ranging from 1,000 to 2,750 metres, and 12GS2 depths ranging from 1,250 to 2,250 metres. I would like to note that the exploration permits for 12GS2, which we have just released, were also tendered by the previous Government, which was supported by that member\u2019s party. We thank Labour and the Green Party for their foresight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e79e0329b14d42d8a4212a891acc7151\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: So, pretty deep, eh. How will New Zealand\u2019s identified 5,500-tonne oil spill response capability be sufficient to deal with a leak from an exploratory deep-sea well at these depths, given that the 1,500-metre Deepwater Horizon exploratory well in the Gulf of Mexico leaked more than 600,000 tonnes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d17d4d16459c42ad986902fd49943900\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Because, first of all, at the front end the goal of the exploration companies, of this Government, of the Environmental Protection Authority, and of all consenting bodies, including the Ministry of Economic Development, is to make sure that does not happen. If it does happen, Maritime New Zealand has equipment onshore in New Zealand and on call internationally, including in Australia, to make sure that a response can be undertaken. Those are the assurances we are given by those bodies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b11dddb880f45c5891d79e8cdd7c30e\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Gulf of Mexico disaster was stopped only when a second rig drilled a relief well, and it can take 4 to 6 weeks at best\u2014at best\u2014for a relief rig to arrive in New Zealand, will the Minister require a second rig to be on standby during deep-sea drilling operations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c87646942c5e47a68bea436dccc042a7\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: No. The exploration companies, which are experts in this field, are best placed to put a response plan in position. It will be run over by experts within various Government departments. I do not think it is wise to take the Green Party\u2019s advice on how you would respond to an incident like that. I would prefer to hear from the experts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267ee283ffbea493097c73ca153bb4531\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Given the Government does not have the resources to deal with an oil spill, and the economic impact would be catastrophic, will he listen to the more than 140,000 New Zealanders who signed Greenpeace\u2019s petition calling on him to prohibit deep-sea oil drilling, and the experts around the world who are saying a second relief rig is the only way to stop a deep-sea blowout?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7c4924b32f0428685e72cff8484aefd\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I disagree with what the member is implying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ceb791b9973c423b8c0315414d7284cf\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Greenpeace technical report Out of our depth: Deep-sea oil exploration in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c9ad7bfaf5b449b80c13022776b2d3a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b576499e9e7d494a9d127b475ef36d9a\u0022\u003ETransport Funding, Auckland\u2014Council Proposal to Charge for Road Use\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00225333d08d057644e284c8ff9d39e420e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225333d08d057644e284c8ff9d39e420e8\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Does he stand by his statement that it is \u201Cridiculous\u201D for Auckland Council to try and go ahead with plans to charge motorists to use the city\u2019s roads?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b32819fa813747d7956ca9a42d39f060\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b32819fa813747d7956ca9a42d39f060\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, because the Crown owns the State highway network, which carries 35 percent of the vehicle kilometres travelled in Auckland. I note also that last week the member said it would be an unfair imposition on ordinary working Aucklanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219ccd7edd0f744e59eea360ea2accf89\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he rule out even considering the Auckland Council\u2019s ideas about making up his Government\u2019s shortfall in transport funding, when the Government\u2019s own response to the plan in February this year said: \u201CThe Auckland Council faces similar fiscal constraints to the Government, and so it would also make sense for the Council to consider new \u2026 approaches to funding \u2026 the infrastructure \u2026 required to deliver Auckland spatial plan objectives.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271599d72e04d48ee9893035b8fabeb4d\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: The member should not assume that his own knowledge of these things puts the limits around my thinking about the way in which the Auckland Council might look to fund these things. What I would note, though, is that the member himself has previously said that such charges would be an imposition on ordinary working New Zealanders. He also just a week or so ago suggested that the increases for motorists, when it came to road-user charges, were inappropriate. I think what the Labour Party members need to do is say what they will do rather than what they will not do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3ba67a424c84a1f8b2d04d3282ecd6b\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he rule out even listening to the Auckland Council\u2019s alternative funding options for funding infrastructure like the additional harbour crossing over the Waitemat\u0101, when the Government\u2019s own transport agency says that it will be one of this country\u2019s most expensive infrastructure projects, and that this means that a range of options beyond the National Land Transport Fund should be considered?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b92379d57856418688de5bddf9872e26\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I think that far from ruling anything out, I have simply made it clear that the idea that the Auckland Council would impose charges without consideration of Government was not appropriate\u2014ridiculous, in fact. I want to report to the House that we had a very good meeting last week with the Auckland Council. A number of Ministers attended, transport was, obviously, on the agenda, and we do have agreement to continue dialogue on how Auckland\u2019s long-term problems might be solved with some better roading projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e44fd2023f44268b9fb2c2e870f83c4\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not arrogant to be ruling options in or out, when it was his Government that abolished the regional fuel tax, which would have funded much of Auckland\u2019s transport plans, when it forced the Auckland Council to borrow half a billion dollars to pay for the electric trains, when it went cap in hand to the Auckland Council asking for bridging finance, because the Government\u2019s own funding for Auckland\u2019s roads had run out, all the while refusing to support the popular and essential city rail link?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb7278be13ad4e73bda53268430bd175\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I take big issue with the suggestion that the city rail link is useful or popular.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226256244b8855429e89f4481fc1ea327e\u0022\u003EHealth and Safety, Workplace\u2014Task Force and Review of System\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u002239971c9fac894e5c81d6214728ff3abc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239971c9fac894e5c81d6214728ff3abc\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: What recent progress has been made towards improving safety in the workplace?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022585cbfc09bac401dadf0c0b08f6a0c5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022585cbfc09bac401dadf0c0b08f6a0c5f\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to report that the newly appointed health and safety task force recently met for the first time. The independent task force is reviewing the wider health and safety system to come up with innovative ideas and fresh thinking to help achieve a 25 percent reduction in serious workplace injuries by 2020. We are also supporting this target with an extra $37 million in investment in health and safety over the next 4 years. Having attended this inaugural meeting, I am happy to report an air of real excitement at this great opportunity to make a real and much-needed difference to the well-being of New Zealand workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e26de12ea8547ae80964bdc71be3017\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: What are the next steps for the health and safety task force?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022811c2a9ec03b4db3bd7335f479f1b0b8\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is important that the task force is given the time it needs to do its job. My expectation is to see a discussion document released by the task force later this year to kick off a public consultation process. This will, of course, give due consideration to the royal commission report on Pike River, which is due to be released in September. The task force is then likely to deliver a final package of recommendations to the Government early in the new year. I have often said that the safety of New Zealand workers should not be a political issue, and I can confirm to the House that when this package is reported back, I plan to consult with all parties, and I welcome feedback before final policy decisions are made, and, indeed, at any time before the package is reported back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002200992f719a3642e0bf0ade92f5e46854\u0022\u003EChristchurch, Recovery\u2014Effect of Housing Quality and Availability on Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022c19805d4a53548cfbb5686215cd9025d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c19805d4a53548cfbb5686215cd9025d\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Labour\u2014Rongotai)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: Does he agree, with Canterbury District Health Board medical officer, Alistair Humphrey, that cold, damp and overcrowded housing in Christchurch has \u201Ccontributed to general sickness\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u0022eda89ca64d5c498689c3a0dea18f0aa9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eda89ca64d5c498689c3a0dea18f0aa9\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. It is widely recognised that there is an association between poor-quality housing or overcrowded living conditions and a greater risk of some infectious diseases, not just in Christchurch but anywhere. That is why the Government has seen over 160,000 houses insulated to date, and also why the Housing New Zealand Corporation will have insulated every State house where practicable by the end of next year, as well as having commenced a significant reconfiguration of the State housing stock portfolio to make sure we have got the right-sized houses in the right condition in the right places in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224afb806a71264b52b0a036ea84570956\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement that there is no housing crisis in Christchurch; if so, would he change his mind if he read the recent report from the Canterbury District Health Board, which said the shortage of rental houses has worsened in recent months, and people with mental illness, physical disabilities, and terminal illnesses are struggling to find accommodation, and it is now a major issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e9c860b414a4dbdaaa420611689d258\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member might like to drum up the idea that there is a crisis. The reality is that there are housing challenges in Christchurch. That is why there is a rebuilding programme, that is why the Housing New Zealand Corporation is upgrading its State housing stock, and that is why the Housing New Zealand Corporation is looking at redevelopments in order to build another 250-350 houses in Canterbury. We need to address these challenges. We recognise that they are there, and we are doing the work that is necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022104229854ef64e838586f84c2e915286\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen the report last week from KidsCan, a welfare organisation funded by the Government, which states that people in Christchurch are living in one room in damp and mouldy houses, which is ideal for the spread of disease, and that children are now suffering from poverty-related illness; and should not such a report make him rethink his statement that there is no housing crisis in Christchurch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d7fc32528724b1490bf22da208b0418\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen a number of reports, and probably the most significant one was when I first came into Government and discovered that many thousands of State house tenants in Christchurch and elsewhere were living in cold and mouldy houses. That is not restricted to just Christchurch. The fact of the matter is that the State housing stock was left in a serious state of disrepair, and we have to insulate it. I think it is a shameful thing that Labour never insulated every\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc11a3cf414f4554a155ed8cbebc77a2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e69e67f24fe49cca40fc059bf44312c\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: What real evidence does the Minister have that there is no short-term shortage of affordable housing in Christchurch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229359ae4da9cb4621b4ed739d434089fe\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I have never said there is real evidence to say there is no short-term shortage of housing in Christchurch. What I challenge is the Labour Party\u2019s continual use of the word \u201Ccrisis\u201D\u2014it does not matter whether it is housing, or health, or oil and gas exploration. Labour members sound more and more like the Greens every day, and I cannot distinguish between them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022978ae53464d54452a51f00c82f438423\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: What is the average weekly market rent in Christchurch, according to the average weekly market rent report he receives each week, and have rents gone up in Christchurch in the last 6 months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229908cb093d7248eb944badf1980f672f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have that exact figure on hand, but I am more than happy to pass it to the member if she puts the question on paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226783c060c98b425380ca2c8312cf6dfb\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002250e2cfdfce2048078aefb2cdba673b27\u0022\u003EState-owned Energy Companies, Shares\u2014Loyalty Bonus Scheme for Mighty River Power\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002273ceb589a51f418094ef0200b757f67c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273ceb589a51f418094ef0200b757f67c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a letter from the Hon Clayton Cosgrove seeking to debate under Standing Order 386 the Government\u2019s decision to offer loyalty bonus shares to New Zealanders buying shares in Mighty River Power. This is a case of recent occurrence involving ministerial responsibility. However, not every Government announcement will warrant an urgent debate. There must be an element of urgency for the matter to take precedence over other business. Details of the loyalty bonus offer are to be announced closer to the time of the Mighty River Power share offer. The Government is still working through those details. In these circumstances I am not persuaded that the setting aside of the House\u2019s business for an urgent debate today can be justified. The application is therefore declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225fbee0b4090e440494dcca197fbb9c35\u0022\u003EDairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022797693ebc5914036b620ac0d9ba2a35f\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00228fa77dfeba4742a2b4e45d788d136691\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fa77dfeba4742a2b4e45d788d136691\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (Minister for Primary Industries):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill be now read a third time. The bill was tabled in the House in March this year. It had its first reading on 3 April 2012, after which it was referred to the Primary Production Committee for consideration. The select committee reported the bill back to the House on 6 June, and the bill has now had its second reading and passed through the Committee stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe Dairy Industry Restructuring Act, or DIRA, promotes the efficient operation of New Zealand\u2019s dairy markets, ensuring freedom for dairy farmers to choose the processor of their milk. The contestability of milk supply provides incentives for all dairy companies to seek to innovate and to operate efficiently so that the New Zealand dairy industry can reach its full potential. The bill is about ensuring that this contestability continues, but it also responds to a number of developments since the Dairy Industry Restructuring Act was put in place over a decade ago. This bill will ensure that that Act remains fit for purpose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EFonterra initiated discussions with the Government in 2009 with a proposal to introduce Trading Among Farmers, or TAF. Fonterra was concerned about the instability of its balance sheet under the Act\u2019s existing share issue and redemption requirements. Importantly, the ultimate decision on whether to proceed or not to proceed with Trading Among Farmers rested with Fonterra and its shareholders, and not with the Government. This decision was put to a vote last month, at which 66.45 percent of Fonterra shareholders voted in favour of Trading Among Farmers proceeding. This is the mandate on which Fonterra has said it is proposing to proceed with Trading Among Farmers. The Government\u2019s job, therefore, is to complete the legislation process and enable Trading Among Farmers to proceed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThis bill ensures that when Fonterra launches Trading Among Farmers, farmers\u2019 freedom of entry into and exit from Fonterra is preserved. This in turn ensures that New Zealand\u2019s dairy markets remain contestable, because this creates the right environment for efficiency, for innovation, and for growth. If Trading Among Farmers does not happen, or if Trading Among Farmers is wound up, the bill requires Fonterra to value its shares at a full fair value. This is also important to ensure the freedom of entry into and exit from Fonterra, because I strongly believe that farmers who decide to move on from Fonterra are entitled to a fair price. Further, it will ensure contestability of the farm-gate milk price. This is why, unlike the share price of any other cooperative, Fonterra\u2019s share price is a public policy concern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EFinally, the bill introduces a new regime to increase transparency in the way Fonterra sets its farm-gate milk price, and provides confidence that the farm-gate milk price is consistent with delivering a contestable market. Due to Fonterra\u2019s dominance, Fonterra\u2019s farm-gate milk price is effectively the price that all processors must pay in order to attract milk supply from farmers. Confidence and transparency are therefore crucial. If the farm-gate milk price is consistent with the outcomes in a contestable market, then this means the price should be efficient, which in turn means that both Fonterra and its competitors will have the incentives to operate efficiently and to innovate. This continual endeavour for improvement brings benefits to the entire dairy industry, and therefore, in turn, to all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EIn 2001 the National Party, then in Opposition, recognised the importance of cross-party support on such significant legislation for the dairy industry, the Dairy Industry Restructuring Act, and we voted accordingly. It is unfortunate and a personal disappointment to me that the Labour Party has decided that playing politics is more important than continuing this tradition of cross-party support for the Dairy Industry Restructuring Act legislation. I am well aware that opposition to the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill is actually not unanimous within the Labour Party caucus. However, on balance, the decision has been made to stand beside the primary industries spokesman, Damien O\u2019Connor, who, having not fully understood the legislation, has continued to paint himself into a corner over the last few months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThis legislation does not mean the end of ownership of the Fonterra cooperative by its shareholders, as Mr O\u2019Connor stated in the House last week. He should give more credit to the intelligence of Fonterra dairy farmers than that. The legislation certainly does not give Mr Damien O\u2019Connor any reason to accuse the Fonterra chairman of lying and stating that he, Mr O\u2019Connor, did not trust Fonterra. That was the language used by Damien O\u2019Connor, which should never have been used in this Parliament. I can only hope that the Labour Party leadership sees past these negative politics, and in the future does the right thing by providing this bill with the cross-party support that the original Dairy Industry Restructuring Act enjoyed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThis bill is crucial to the ongoing growth of New Zealand\u2019s dairy sector, and therefore to the ongoing economic prosperity of all New Zealanders. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9c8b9bddb704436a44694791dd61b64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9c8b9bddb704436a44694791dd61b64\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014West Coast - Tasman):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take the opportunity to put Labour\u2019s position on this bill, the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill. It is with some sadness that we cannot support this bill. We have a proud history in dairy industry legislation, going back from the 1930s. We formed Fonterra when we last came into Government, and we would have liked to vote for this bill. In the end, although there has been much discussion and good discussion within the Labour Party caucus, there is the refusal by the Government to support a legislated cap on the fund size. This is a fund that Fonterra itself has said is critical in terms of its total size, critical to the management pressures and direction of Fonterra, but the Government refuses to put in place a legislated cap. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe Minister for Primary Industries went through the timing of the bill. It was a rushed process. Thankfully, through the Government\u2019s own mismanagement, it allowed farmers to vote on Trading Among Farmers before the legislation had progressed through the House, and for that, I guess, we welcome the National Government\u2019s incompetence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E The outcome of that vote was confusing. The Minister himself misleads the House by saying that 66.45 percent of shareholders voted for Trading Among Farmers. No, the vote based on milksolids was 66.45 percent of those who voted. The estimates\u2014and Fonterra refuses to give the figures on this\u2014are that, of those farmers who voted, about 50 percent voted for and about 50 percent voted against. That is not a clear mandate, and that is why Labour is concerned that the Government\u2019s position on this has been to refuse to put in place a legislative protection for what is the largest and the most successful company\u2014and, arguably, industry\u2014in this country, bar none, owned for the most part by New Zealand farmers, which is something that we should be quite proud of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EFonterra itself says that it will manage the investment fund. This is the opportunity for non-farmers to buy units in our biggest company, at about 7 to 12 percent of total share capital value. New Zealand Exchange\u2019s outgoing Chief Executive Officer, Mark Weldon, commented that until the fund actually gets to 20 percent it is not going to operate efficiently. My concern is that tension that will be there from day one is unlikely to be managed by the board or by farmers, and without a legislated cap it could very well see that unit fund blow out to a figure that is beyond critical and that is beyond the level that Fonterra itself says is wise and prudent in terms of the long-term objectives of a cooperative company. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThis is an unusual company. I acknowledge here and now that in 2001, when we put Fonterra in place, we established a fair value share for a cooperative that in itself was unusual. We did put in place open entry and open exit provisions, which brought discipline on management to ensure it held the confidence of farmer-supplier shareholders. We are changing that through this legislation, and that is the risk. In spite of the global financial crisis, this company has grown, has improved its equity, and has come back from a near crisis on its balance sheet in 2007 to a position of strength under the existing structure. This bill is about to change that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIt is important that farmers realise exactly what is going on. Yes, in the House I did refer to Sir Henry van der Heyden\u2019s statement in 2010 in a consultation document that \u201CTrading Among Farmers gets rid of redemption risk once and for all, which makes every farmer\u2019s investment in Fonterra more secure.\u201D That is a lie. I repeat that statement because in the due diligence report released in 2012 a summary of quite a lot of work that went on states \u201Cbalance sheet cover of NZ$120-200m required under TAF to manage Fund size is significantly lower than the NZ$500-850m of cover required to manage redemption risk \u2026\u201D, the point being that redemption risk remains with the company at a lower level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E But what we have through the passage of this bill is some added risks to the company. We had an independent adviser to the Primary Production Committee. The advisers that came from the Ministry of Economic Development and from the Ministry for Primary Industries were competition advisers. They were skilled in the area of contestability, competition, and commerce law. They did not understand cooperatives and their basic objectives. Our independent adviser, James Morrison, in his report to the committee says: \u201CThis investor-supplier conflict of interests is why every cooperative that has introduced external investors to its capital structure has either eventually demutualised, or reverted back to a full cooperative by excluding the external investors\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EFarmers should be under no illusion that this legislation is going to protect and strengthen their cooperative. There are pressures that will build\u2014ultimately, I think, from within the cooperative\u2014under difficult times of trading and with international prices coming down, and the concern is that bankers may force farmers to seek full value in their share. In fact, in terms of the fall-back provisions in the bill around share valuation, there was much debate around proposed new section 77A in clause 7. That debate was whether this cooperative should be driven by cooperative principles, which are basically nominal value shareholding. It can be a change in nominal value, but the fair value provisions and concept that we introduced in 2001 are faulty. What this bill had attempted to do was to change the fair value provisions in the absence of Trading Among Farmers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIndeed, without the endorsement of the Fonterra Shareholders\u2019 Council, Trading Among Farmers cannot be introduced. There is a legal requirement for the Fonterra Shareholders\u2019 Council\u2014approximately 35 shareholding farmers, who have the responsibility to provide oversight and a watchdog process for the Fonterra board\u2014to sign off and endorse this concept. It has not done so yet. It needs to be fully aware that we have to have a fair process for the establishment of the value of the share if the council does not endorse Trading Among Farmers, and, indeed, if through this legislation the fund was to be wound up. What we have done in this bill is try to compromise on the tension between officials who wanted full value shareholding\u2014full value shares, open value shares in Fonterra\u2014and the intention of the select committee, which was to have a cooperative value share. I am sure the chairman of the committee will outline that even further. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe last provisions in here are the milk price provisions\u2014that is, we have a raw milk price that enables independent competitors to come and buy milk on a contestable basis from other farms, and to get on and innovate. We welcome that and we want that. A complex milk price manual and milk price panel arrangement will be set up to try to do the best for Fonterra and the dairy industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E In summary, Labour would like to support this bill, but we choose not to on the basis that the Government has refused to put in a basic legislative protection for what is the single biggest and most successful company in this country. We wonder why this is happening. John Key is on record saying that he would like to see Fonterra floated; we hope that does not happen. We have seen shares in numerous entities across this country\u2014we will see them in State-owned enterprises\u2014go into overseas ownership. Control will eventually drift into overseas ownership, and we do not want that to happen for Fonterra, our single biggest company. We hope that the board of Fonterra has the best intentions to provide and maximise the return to farmer shareholders, not to provide and maximise the return to the outside investors who will now be part of Fonterra, New Zealand\u2019s biggest cooperative company. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022 data-id=\u00222abd27b218a447458fcf3bf190a5d3fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222abd27b218a447458fcf3bf190a5d3fa\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BANKS (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the ACT Party to support the third reading of the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill. I want to thank the Minister for Primary Industries, David Carter, for making the officials available to me and my officials at all times, and I acknowledge his constructive engagement on the contestability issue. The contestability issue is dear to the heart of the ACT Party and what we stand for. I want to give praise and credit for the work done by the chairman of the Primary Production Committee, the member of Parliament from Taranaki - King Country\u2014a long-serving member of this House\u2014and the good work that he did on improving this bill after taking some advice from me and my officials. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003ELet me record again for the public record my interests in the dairy industry, particularly in the milk-processing business. I also acknowledge the dairy industry representatives who came to see me. I have nothing but praise for the chairman of Fonterra and his leadership, and I would not have the temerity of the Labour Party representative to give him gratuitous insults under the cover of this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EWhen I think of farmers, Mr Speaker, I think of you. When I think of farmers, I think of your parents. When I think of farmers, I think of the people on the land around you and across Northland whom I know well, who have farmed the land industriously since Coates of Kaipara, and who have provided the export receipts for this country to enable us to live in the style that we have become accustomed to, which we now borrow for to stay afloat. The ACT Party salutes the men and women of the dairy industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EI love farmers, and why would not someone from Epsom love farmers? If it was not for the farmers we would not be able to pay the interest on the $150 million a week that we are borrowing to sustain the present accounts. Every week we borrow from the savings of the hard-working Swiss, the hard-working Germans, and the hard-working Chinese so we can keep consuming. New Zealand would be another Greece without farming families like yours, Mr Speaker, who get up early in the morning and work late into the night to provide the export receipts for the consumables that we consume. So I salute farmers, in particular the dairy farmers, and the hard work they do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EI remember aged 12 working in Kaitoke on the farm of Allan McCready, one of the great members of this Parliament, one of the great farmers of this Parliament, one of the outstanding Ministers of Police of this Parliament, and arguably the best Minister of Police we have had since the member for Whangarei. Allan McCready was a dairy farmer from a small place called Kaitoke. If you have been through Kaitoke on the way to the Wairarapa, you will know what an inhospitable place Kaitoke can be, but it was the farmers of Kaitoke who milked cows on the grasslands of Kaitoke who paid for the power that drives the energy in this Parliament\u2014let us get that right\u2014and we salute them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EWhere are the farmers in the Labour Party today? I know that the Opposition spokesman for farming grows blackcurrants in Motueka. I understand that; I know that he once had a business taking people down rivers in canoes. But where are the farmers? Where are the people like\u2014remember that great farmer spokesman this House had once from the Labour Party, Colin Moyle? I was here in this Parliament with Colin Moyle. I was here in this Parliament with Jim Sutton. Jim Sutton and Colin Moyle would be appalled at the level of debate coming from the parliamentary Opposition this afternoon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EIn the year to December 2011 dairying generated almost $13 billion in export receipts. It accounts for 25 percent of our exports. Those men and women who get up at 4 o\u2019clock in the morning to milk the cows\u2014to provide the milk for the exports for the foreign exchange earnings\u2014are the people we are talking about today. The ACT Party stands with the productive sector. The ACT Party stands with the wealth creators. The ACT Party stands united behind farming families up and down the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EI find it rather gratuitous also to witness the abuse that farmers\u2014particularly dairy farmers\u2014take from the Green Party. I heard a Green Party member of Parliament who has probably never owned any business, let alone a farming operation, describe them as the dirty dairying industry, which, of course, is in respect of a very tiny minority of farmers. Most farmers are environmentalists. They care about the land, they care about the animals, they care about the country, and they work hard all day and all night to provide the export receipts so that the Green Party members can have lights in this Parliament to conduct their opposition to the export tradable sector of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EFonterra is a farmers\u2019 business, and, like any business, regulatory uncertainty and creep pose a risk. The ACT Party is wary of regulation. It can sap wealth creation and innovation. We believe less is generally best. However, Fonterra was created by statute and would not otherwise exist. It has a dominant market position; therefore, there is a public interest in how it conducts its affairs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EThe bill has two features. The first enables Trading Among Farmers, or TAF. The ACT Party has no issue with Trading Among Farmers. It is their business, after all. It is the farmers\u2019 business\u2014the dairy farmers\u2019 business\u2014to trade their shares in their family farming operation. But the second feature is the regulation of the base price of milk. The bill extends the role of the Commerce Commission so that it has oversight of how Fonterra does this. As someone who comes to this House from this business, I know that setting the price is the most intimate thing a business can do. Therefore, the public interest in regulating this must be significant. The ACT Party has concluded that it is. The reason is simple. Fonterra sets the default price of milk for all participants in the dairy industry. Although there is no right price for milk, there is a range of where the right price should fall, and outside that range we have economic distortions. The ACT Party believes in a level playing field for everybody in this tradable sector of the economy. It can also impact on the environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EThe bill seeks to encourage Fonterra\u2019s efficiency while preserving contestability in the dairy market. Contestability is critical to keep competitive advantage so that New Zealand can sell at best prices for returns of foreign exchange to the rest of the world in a highly competitive business. On contestability we have a slightly different view from officials. We do not think the stretched milk price works the way officials say it does. Nor is it consistent with the body of our competitive law, but the ACT Party concedes that this is a highly technical issue that Opposition members will have absolutely no idea about if they grow berries in Motueka. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EThe dairy industry universe is not about either Fonterra or small independents; it is about both. The dairy industry is about the small, highly competitive industry of small players and large players. It is remarkable that New Zealand accounts for about 2 percent of global dairy production, but about 33 percent of cross-border trade in dairy products. That is huge. My view is that Fonterra needs to set its sights on expansion abroad. What I know is that innovation and dynamism on the margins are likely to come from smaller players. Innovation and dynamism in this industry will come from the smaller players, not from Fonterra. They have a critical role in the value-added baby formula business, products with health additives, and organic milks and the like. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EThis innovation is good for New Zealand. Competition is good for the dairy industry. Small players we put on a pedestal. They are critical to the competitive edge for the foreign exchange earnings to pay the interest on the $150 million a week we are borrowing for the Crown account. So the ACT Party thanks farmers, the ACT Party backs farmers, and the ACT Party supports this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00221250cd29253a4b789f49a8695eb0b072\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221250cd29253a4b789f49a8695eb0b072\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I did agree with some of the comments from John Banks, but it did not escape me that he accused others of gratuitous abuse, and then proceeded to do exactly that to every party in the Opposition. I do not think that reflected very well on the rest of your speech, Mr Banks, and it was unnecessary. I do agree with you that it is important that we have a competitive milk price\u2014that the split in the total return that Fonterra co-op members have between milk and their profit from their shares in Fonterra is an appropriate split.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI also agree with the Hon John Banks that it is a highly technical area. Members of the Labour Party, as I am sure the members of the ACT Party and other parties, have received submissions from some of the competitors who are wishing to purchase milk, who have a view that the price-setting mechanism in the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill is not right. I have to say that I was initially convinced somewhat by some of those assertions that the milk price was being set at too high a price, being based on a theoretical model for the price of milk, driven by a theoretical, profitable business based on new investment that goes into primarily milk powder, rather than some of the older assets relating to the production of cheese, which are less profitable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI was eventually convinced by Fonterra, and from submissions that the Primary Production Committee received and from officials advising the select committee that, in fact, the profitable parts of the Fonterra business and the profitable parts of competitors to Fonterra are generally driven, these days, by a milk price model that relates to milk powder, and that, therefore, the fundamental building blocks of this price model that Fonterra is using, which is based on a milk powder model, is correct. So in respect of that part of the bill, I have got to the point where I think it is appropriate. I think that there are proper concerns raised by the smaller competitors that they not pay too high a price for milk, because obviously if they have to pay too high a price for milk\u2014an uncompetitive price\u2014they cannot operate. And I agree with Mr Banks that it is in those small operators that we do see innovative practice being developed, including for niche markets and overseas, and that that competition at that part of the market is important to the long-term health of the Fonterra Cooperative Group, which is what we are trying to grapple with in this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EBut the part of the jigsaw that is, for me, wrong in respect of this legislation is the absence of a statutory cap in the legislation restricting the proportion of the co-op shares that can be put on this trading platform, so that the farmer does not own the returns from those shares. Farmers would still get a price for the milk that they deliver, but they do not get the share of profits from those shares that they put on this trading platform. We have had to endure the insults from Mr Banks, who asserts that in the Opposition we have got no understanding of commerce. Mr Banks, it was you who tripled council debt when you were last the mayor of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5623ddb46df458193c1da2a5b05906a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member does not use \u201Cyou\u201D like that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac6a7162f9e348699c3558a8313ea299\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I accept your point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022480adea6e8d547dc89096605191d3b3b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: He is perfectly entitled to debate the issue, but he must not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4e89ad35c9141f39bb2490024b0b197\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was Mr Banks who tripled council debt when he was last mayor, and we do not accept lessons in fiscal responsibility or economic management from Mr Banks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ETrading Among Farmers is driven by the concern amongst Fonterra that its capital base could be at risk of people redeeming their shares in the co-op in a way that creates, effectively, a run on the finances of Fonterra. There are a number of points to be made about that. One is that the worst, almost, imaginable combination of events did occur a few years ago. We had the global financial crisis coinciding with a drought. Farmers were pressed on their balance sheets. They were further pressed by banks, because those\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022333e8977b26549ecaa7a78f5c125ab8a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Banks?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223954018288104ed5bfc97384c9ea19cd\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014not Mr Banks; by New Zealand banks\u2014banks themselves were suffering liquidity constraints. They put the squeeze on a number of farmers to whom they had extended credit. So there were a number of farmers saying that they wanted to withdraw some of their capital tied up in Fonterra. In addition to that, we had the prior period of boom time when Fonterra had not been making any retentions from its profits by way of retained earnings to improve Fonterra\u2019s balance sheet. Despite that almost perfect storm, to the detriment of Fonterra, Fonterra did get through. So I think some of the concerns about redemption risk have been overstated. None the less, there is a germ of truth there that Fonterra is appropriately trying to guard against.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party has been a long-term supporter of the structures under which the dairy industry in New Zealand has thrived. It was the Labour Party, under Michael Joseph Savage, that created the first form of the Dairy Board. It brought this collective strength of all of the farmers together and caused the development of this vertically integrated industry, which ensures that an appropriate share of the total profit to be made from the farm right through to the retail consumer is captured for the benefit of the New Zealand farm and the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIt was the Labour Government under Helen Clark and Michael Cullen that then forced through legislation, with the support of the National Party, that overrode local competition concerns, to the detriment of New Zealand\u2019s consumers, probably, in respect of the New Zealand milk consumption market. We overrode the Commerce Act, which would otherwise have stopped the merger of New Zealand Dairy Group and Kiwi Cooperative Dairies, because of their dominance in the New Zealand milk market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229deb4760fac848419e981b4fdb26e992\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: But they had to divest it in 6 months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235e41939ac534c4a94878c09fb9ba3ac\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I beg your pardon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9df7d0bfac041cbbf3255bcc0ea8932\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: They had to divest of up to 50 percent of it in 6 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230cc5029e4ea4b16b54eb4572b57d144\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: There were conditions relating to divestment, as Mr Ardern suggests. But this Parliament overrode New Zealand\u2019s Commerce Act in order to bring Fonterra into being. We did that because we thought that there was a New Zealand interest that exceeded the domestic competition concerns. Since then, under this vertically integrated model, the interests of Fonterra and the farmers who own Fonterra and the country that benefits from Fonterra have improved, as it has been a very successful model. The germ of that remains true: we want a vertically integrated industry. To the extent that you can have different holders of share capital in Fonterra who have different interests, you set up a tension. I think everyone agrees that that tension is created by this legislation\u2014that there will be some people who in the future are not farmers and who have a long-term interest in the vertical integration of that industry, from farm gate through to retail in China or wherever those branded products are going to be sold in the future. There could be a tension between the interests of those long-term farmers and the interests of the New Zealand economy, which coincide with the interests of those farmers, and the interests of people who buy the profit stream from some of these shares through Trading Among Farmers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIt is that point that we in this Parliament need to be very careful about, because, as Mr Banks and the Minister for Primary Industries have previously said, this has become New Zealand\u2019s most important export industry. A full quarter of New Zealand\u2019s exports come from the dairy sector, and just about all of them come from Fonterra. So we should be taking care that we do not kill the goose that lays the golden egg. It is for that reason that the Labour Party has said that there ought to be a statutory limit in this legislation as to the proportion of the total shares in Fonterra that can be traded and separated from the farmer who provides the milk. We have said that that limit should be 20 percent. Our reason for that was that there have been overseas examples relating to Kerry Group dairy in Ireland where, at 20 percent, the long-term seeds of destruction of the cooperative model have been sown. So we thought that 20 percent is probably an appropriate limit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EFonterra came back to us and it engaged with us very maturely, with the expertise that you would expect from Fonterra, and its professionalism, and we thank it for that. It came back and it said: \u201CLook, 20 percent we cannot live with, but 23 percent we can\u201423 percent is above where we intend to go.\u201D, and indeed, it wants to have a limit in its own constitution to a similar effect, of around 20 percent. I might have that percentage wrong, but Fonterra wants a limit in its constitution. It was willing to agree to an amendment through this Parliament that had a statutory limit, and said: \u201CIf you want to go beyond that, you\u2019ve actually got to think, from the point of view of Parliament, about whether you are sowing the seeds of destruction in the cooperative.\u201D The National Party would not agree to the amendment, therefore Labour is opposing this legislation, because it is without the statutory protection of a statutory limit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022 data-id=\u002257b935471ec541aaa484b018bec07621\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257b935471ec541aaa484b018bec07621\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E te Rangatira o te Whakaruruhau nei, te hunga k\u014Dk\u014D t\u0101t\u0101k\u012B me te kaupapa o te wiki, te reo taketake o te whenua nei, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E[To the Speaker of this House, the quick-witted speakers, and the matter relating to this week, the indigenous language of this country, acknowledgments to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThe Green Party opposes the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill. It is the thin end of the asset sales wedge; the setting up of the selling out of the Fonterra Cooperative and its family-farmer members. It is the dairy farmers\u2019 poor cousin of the Mixed Ownership Model Bill. This Government is into selling out everything, not just our power companies. Now we are selling out the actual fundamental dividend stream of one of New Zealand\u2019s main export industries. This Government is selling everything it can to its mates, and all too often to foreign investors. We have foreign ownership of our forestry and our fisheries, and now we are into a sell-out of dairy. We need to ask the Minister for Primary Industries what he intends to sell out next of New Zealand\u2019s primary industries, which are the backbone of New Zealand. Who else is he going to turn into serfs? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EIn this Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill, the so-called Trading Among Farmers provision allows outside investors to trade on the dividend stream of Fonterra farmer members, and begin an inevitable demutualisation of Fonterra and increased foreign control of New Zealand\u2019s primary industry sector, the sector that provides 70 percent of our export earnings, and is the backbone of our country. Trading Among Farmers is trading against farmers\u2014nothing less. We do not believe that Fonterra or this National Government has a mandate to push it through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EWe have heard a little bit about the numbers, and I want to go back to those numbers again. In Fonterra, it is not one person, one vote. It is one share, one vote. The amount of shares a farmer has is determined by how many milksolids that farmer supplies, so the big suppliers hold the larger proportion of the shares. The Greens believe that it is likely that it may even be slightly under 50 percent of actual farmers who voted for Trading Among Farmers. The Minister, David Carter, reckons it was 66 percent of farmers who voted for it. Where are his figures? How many farmers actually voted for Trading Among Farmers? I bet that if we applied the Perito principle, 80 percent of the 66 percent who voted were shares of big business. The Minister for Primary Industries, Fonterra, and the Fonterra Shareholders\u2019 Council need to front up with the real numbers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EFonterra has said that it needs Trading Among Farmers to achieve the capital to allow offshore farm and infrastructure development. Then it said: \u201CNo, no, no, that is not what we are saying. It is to cover redemption risk.\u201D Many submitters to the Primary Production Committee pointed out that buffering for redemption risk can be achieved by other means, such as a retention policy, which has already been shown to be successful in acquiring significant capital. Figures show that the retentions taken from 2008 may have managed any redemption risk. In fact, $438 million was taken in 2010 and it was retained, and another $487 million last year. Effectively half a billion dollars a year can be retained, and yet Fonterra was saying that it needs to do this smart thing by letting outside investors in to manage redemption risk. Rubbish! That is clearly not the case. Fonterra chair, Mr van der Heyden, and his friends seem to have taken a walk away from their members, and are pushing the way for foreign investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThis Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill also missed an opportunity, an opportunity to develop a smart, green economy that will support the primary industry and family farmers. The focus of the bill on the efficient operation of dairy markets in New Zealand missed an opportunity, and it fails to allow for gains through such value-adding systems as organics. \u201CEfficient\u201D is primarily a term used for volume-based production and marketing. It does not address long-term economic efficiency provided by sustainable production. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThe dairy industry has presented to me the suggestion that it wants a 10 percent lift in production while holding its environmental footprint to the status quo, as though the status quo was OK. Well, that is not such a fantastic outcome, when the status quo in environmental outcomes is seriously way below par. This bill could have included drivers that could have focused on value-adding on farms through certifiable sustainable production such as organics, not further commodification for outside and\u2014all too often\u2014foreign interests, making New Zealand farmers peasants in their own land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThere are those who suggest, and have suggested today, that the Green Party is opposed to farmers in New Zealand, and that it is opposed to the growth of the primary sector. We are far, far from that. We want more people on the land, looking after the land, and the provisions in this bill reduce that. We are concerned that there are actually fewer dairy farmers and more dairy cows. That is an indication that intensification has increased. We need more people on the land, and we want to make that possible through intergenerational farming and through looking after a co-op that is going to give them the best deal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EPrimary production co-ops or single-desk collectives and initiatives work to the advantage of their members, to ensure the best returns for their farming, and for their sector\u2019s production. But unfortunately this bill allows this co-op to take a walk away from supporting individual farming families. This bill is about supporting the big, big companies and foreign investors, instead of the traditional family-farmer supporters of the National Party. It is about supporting contestability and theoretical open competition. That is only going to damage the Fonterra Cooperative. It is not about helping New Zealand farmers. We oppose this bill. We look forward to a change of Government in 2014, and a smart, green economy that supports a primary industry and its family farmers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022261707d496354a8fb8f6bef9883d7489\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022261707d496354a8fb8f6bef9883d7489\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E Before I start my address on the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill, I must declare an interest, as a family trust that I am involved in owns shares in Fonterra. There has been a lot of discussion around the ownership structure of our dairy industry during this debate. I want to just put on record, as a dairy farmer, as someone who has followed this debate closely, and as chair of the Primary Production Committee, that it is in the DNA of most dairy farmers who are shareholders in Fonterra to maintain 100 percent ownership in the Fonterra Cooperative. This is not just some ideology. It is not something that we think of just because that is what we think should happen; it is actually based in sound economics and commerce. That is that we produce a product that is very perishable at the time of its production, and, therefore, it is important to be able to make sure\u2014to have a 100 percent guarantee, if you like, through 100 percent ownership\u2014that the processing, the transporting, the marketing, and the exporting of that product is under the control of those who produce it. To trust someone else to do that would be a step outside of what has worked for our industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EBut, that said, when Fonterra was formed it was a construct of legislation. It was the merger of three entities and it brought together 90 percent of the milk production in New Zealand. There had to be a regulatory structure to allow that to happen. If you study all international examples, you will find very, very few structures anywhere with that type of dominance in a particular market or within a particular industry sector. So the bill is a compromise. It is a compromise. There is a compromise in what we are trying to achieve, and that is to allow free entry and exit for farmers who wish to enter or exit Fonterra, and to make sure that they are able to enter and exit with their fair share of the capital that they bring in when they become a shareholder in Fonterra.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003ETrading Among Farmers, which is much debated and maligned by some in this debate, received 66.45 percent of the milksolids shares in support of that concept. The bill does not compel the industry; it is enabling. It is enabling. It enables the industry to do that. The industry came to Government, as the Minister for Primary Industries said, and asked for it. The reason was that it identified $1 billion worth of potential redemption risk. That was identified because the industry\u2019s funders told it that that is what they would discount or allow as a risk against the borrowing involved in the industry. So whether or not people agree with that, or whether they think that was overstated or understated\u2014or whatever the view is\u2014that is what the industry was confronted with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EI have heard a reasonable amount of discussion about the ability to retain earnings through retentions rather than pay them out to farmers and thereby overcome some of that redemption risk, and that is true. There is an ability to do that. But in a time of hard economics with high debt, a farmer cooperative that decides it is going to keep its own balance sheet in good shape and not look after its shareholder farmers is a cooperative that is probably on a slippery slope to oblivion, and the farmer shareholders would certainly make sure that that did not happen. So once again it is not as black and white as others would have you believe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EIn the 2008-09 year, when the redemption risk was real, Fonterra was confronted, first of all, with an international economic crisis. Those are not my words; they are words used by economic commentators around the world, and if you were to visit Europe at the moment, you would understand what they mean by that. Fonterra was confronted with a drought in New Zealand, which had the Minister of Agriculture at that time travelling the length and breadth of the country declaring big parts of the country a drought zone. And it was also confronted with the Sun Lu melamine poisoning in China\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278ac280e154847d68efadd560f3c41b3\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: San Lu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022131e2b9cccc1459fbb52ce814475d955\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: San Lu\u2014the member corrects me. It was confronted with the San Lu poisoning of baby formula in China. Those were three major hits, you might say, on the integrity of what is a farmer cooperative\u2014the economic integrity of a farmer cooperative\u2014that prides itself on exporting to the world milk and milk products with high quality and safety. So there was a redemption risk, it was real, and something needed to be done about it. The result of that and the many discussions that have taken place since then is the construct of Trading Among Farmers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EAt this point I just want to thank once again the members of the Primary Production Committee. We were faced with a number of challenging issues. This is a complex piece of legislation. It covers a wide range of very difficult questions to answer, from where the Commerce Commission\u2019s involvement should stop and start, to where the limits on the size of the fund should stop and start, to the price of Fonterra shares versus the farm-gate milk price. These things are not easy to resolve, and certainly there will be no simple silver bullet to resolve these issues. The select committee not only listened to advisers from within Government but sought independent advice. We listened to the submitters\u2014all of those who wished to submit to that select committee\u2014and the team on that committee, I believe, had only one interest in mind, and that was the interests of \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D plus the protection of our largest company and the exports of our products to 150-odd countries in the world. This is a very timely piece of legislation and I support the passage of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022 data-id=\u00224d6db70f735d42abb92a61fbedca5f28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d6db70f735d42abb92a61fbedca5f28\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to rise at this stage of the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill on behalf of New Zealand First. I am pleased but, I have to say, also a little glum because we have come to what is apparently the obvious end of this process, the culmination of which will be the bill\u2019s passing into law. I have reservations about this, as I know many others do, and in spite of what the Minister for Primary Industries said earlier about the Labour Party caucus not being united behind its spokesman, Mr O\u2019Connor, I am aware that there is some contention still within the National Party caucus on this bill, because there are things about it that are not good, and there are things about which, I believe, many in the dairy industry itself have reservations. But the bill will be passed, and we will all have to live with that and with those possible consequences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EEssentially, this bill does not need to be passed in order to achieve the aims that it claims it intends to achieve. We are told that the bill will enable the Trading Among Farmers scheme, which has perhaps been the most contentious issue. It will also instigate a price-setting monitoring regime and give us an alternative to the Trading Among Farmers scheme should the scheme not be taken up by Fonterra or should it not work, and that will be the share-value fixing mechanism. But Trading Among Farmers is not, as we have discussed in this debate earlier, what farmers voted on originally. The scheme as it was originally mooted was about trading among farmers, but it has morphed into trading including farmers. As has been mentioned by me and by others in earlier sections of this debate, if the trading scheme requires external capital, then it cannot be, by definition, Trading Among Farmers, and it is quite possibly not the right model for Fonterra to be following. The numbers that are worked around what Trading Among Farmers needs to achieve is that it needs to provide a shareholder pool of around 8 percent. That would require, because of the limitations on the number of individual dry shares that each farmer shareholder can own\u2014being limited to 5 percent of the total\u2014something like 25 percent of all farmers to give up 20 percent of all their holdings, and that is unlikely to happen, which means that we will need outside investors. So the scheme is not about trading among farmers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThe process by which the system has been examined was rushed. The period for submissions was truncated from something like 6 months to something like 4 weeks, about 3 weeks of which Parliament was in an adjournment. Comments have been made that this was perhaps done to suit the agenda of a Government that perhaps wondered whether there was\u2014or even knew that there was\u2014quite a lot of opposition to the bill amongst the industry that it concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThe Primary Production Committee, which I was privileged to be an observer on\u2014a fly on the wall, you might say, and a fly who was doubly privileged to be allowed to make buzzing noises every now and then; I am grateful to the committee for that ability to have input\u2014certainly did not have as much time as any of its members would have liked in order to consider all submissions and consider all the possible ramifications of the bill. The Minister claims that the vote taken by Fonterra\u2019s farmer shareholders gives Fonterra a mandate. Others have mentioned the numbers involved. We do not know, in fact, whether it was a majority of shareholders; we know it was a majority of shares. As to whether that process is a democratic one that has been passed, we can question the ins and outs and the ethics of it as much as we like, but the fact remains that we have a mandate on paper, and whether or not we believe it is a mandate in truth is something that history will come to record. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E The flip side to Trading Among Farmers\u2014whether it goes ahead or not\u2014is the share-price setting regime. Examinations into both the milk price and the share price by the Commerce Commission and by others have all come to the conclusion that both the share price and the milk price are reasonably fair anyway, so these are not necessarily things that need to be examined, and not something for which we need this bill to be passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWe are told also that one of the purposes for Trading Among Farmers is that it will strengthen the capital markets of New Zealand. I wonder\u2014as I have wondered through this process\u2014how this will be of benefit to Fonterra or to the New Zealand dairy industry. It will not, because beyond the initial bonus share issue\u2014the dry share issue\u2014the trading scheme will not benefit Fonterra at all. It will, in fact, benefit only the traders. Fonterra will gain a pool of capital from the selling of dry shares, and after that it can really wash its hands of what happens with the trading of those shares, but it cannot because as those shares are traded they will increase in value\u2014they have to increase in value; there is no point in trading shares unless they increase in value\u2014and as those dry shares increase in value, as the units attached to them increase in value, so the wet shares will increase in value also. This will give the lie to the stated intention of the bill, and of, indeed, the Dairy Industry Restructuring Act itself, to enable free entry and exit to the cooperative. Although free entry and exit will be there on paper, it will be limited by the cost of the shares. The share value increasing will not only affect the ability of farmers to enter and exit the co-op but actually create redemption risk where redemption risk does not seriously exist at the moment. Sure, redemption risk is a factor that we need to take into consideration, and we have seen redemption, but, as has been stated numerous times through this debate, it is not as big a bogey man as it has been made out to be. Given that that the stated reasons for Trading Among Farmers is that it will assist Fonterra to alleviate redemption risk or provide it with a capital pool for growing its brand\u2019s business, this bill is not necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThere are other mechanisms by which these ends can be met. Redemption has been overstated, as I have said, but it can be alleviated by changing the period over which share values are paid out to farmers leaving the co-op from 30 days, as it currently stands, to 3 years. This does not need a legislative change, for Fonterra can do that now if it wishes without needing the law to be altered. Alternatively, the retention of 30c a kilo, we are told, over 3 years would raise $1 billion for Fonterra, and since all Fonterra\u2019s wealth comes ultimately from milk, any means of raising capital will come from retention or reduction of profits anyway. For this to happen, this bill is not necessary. Fonterra can do this now without needing the law changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EAlternatively, again, part of Fonterra\u2019s offshore business could be separated, could be corporatised, and could be floated on world markets with the profits being retained by the cooperative. These offshore businesses are largely joint ventures anyway, and have the potential to grow to the point where they could actually swamp the parent company. There is a case that can be made for separating and floating off Fonterra\u2019s offshore businesses, and for Fonterra to retain control and ownership of its New Zealand operations and of its brands businesses. This is a mechanism by which Fonterra\u2019s need for an additional capital pool could be met without passing this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWe disagree fundamentally, in New Zealand First, that the milk market needs to be contestable. This is because there is a clash of philosophies here. Either there is a virtual monopoly or there is not. Fonterra exists as a creature of statute that was created because the dairy industry came to Parliament and said: \u201CWe wish to merge and we wish to become something that is larger than is allowed under commerce and fair trading rules.\u201D Parliament looked at the model that Fonterra would become if it were allowed to be created and said: \u201CYes, we can see that this will be of value to \u2018New Zealand Inc.\u2019 as a whole, because this thing is going to be large, it is going to be powerful, and it is going to benefit everybody.\u201D So it was allowed to exist. To attempt to introduce the concept of contestability at the same time as a virtual monopoly is a clash of ideologies. It is attempting to have one\u2019s cake and to eat it as well, and we do not believe that it is a desirable thing, let alone a necessary thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EMy erstwhile colleague from the Greens referred to this process as the privatisation of Fonterra, and I confess it is a term I have used myself. I must clarify that we are all fully aware that Fonterra is entirely private. It is a collection of private businesses, of private farmers, of people who get up at 4 o\u2019clock in the morning and go and do the dirty work so the rest of us can enjoy the benefits of the foreign exchange that their industry earns. It is about corporatisation rather than privatisation, and although I agree with Mr Browning\u2019s sentiments, I must clarify the terminology around it. But the purpose of a co-op is to maximise the returns to its shareholders. If either the share values or the dividends are maximised instead of the returns to farmers\u2014instead of the milk price\u2014there is no way that the farm-gate milk price can return those maximum profits to its farmer shareholders, because, as I said earlier, all the money comes from one bucket of milk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EIn closing, I wish to restate what the departing Chief Executive Officer of Fonterra, Andrew Ferrier, said in September 2011. Fonterra does not need outside capital. Indeed, it does not, and it does not need this bill, either. New Zealand First does not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc2a9ebba66c499e958acdc0b22a1554\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc2a9ebba66c499e958acdc0b22a1554\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to speak during the third reading of the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill. In doing so I think we need to reflect ourselves, and project ourselves outside this debating chamber, because I sense a degree of polarising of views from the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EWhen you think about Fonterra and you think about milk, it is about cooperation, because if you do not cooperate you do not actually have a product. When you think of Fonterra and the construct of the legislation, of the Dairy Industry Restructuring Act, it is obligated to take milk from where it is being produced. I might say that those people who would set themselves up and compete against Fonterra for that milk production would go to where it is the most efficient to pick up the milk in those areas like the Waikato, like Canterbury where it is developing, or like Southland. They would not set themselves up in Takaka or Kaik\u014Dura, where there was an absence, or a small number, of dairy farmers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003ESo I just want to set things into this context, because while we consider this amendment to the Dairy Industry Restructuring Act we need to see that this is an organisation that is primarily export-focused. Although we in the House here did give it the ability to not be subject to the Commerce Commission, as would be the normal practice, conditions, and terms inside this country, it was purely driven out of the essential element that New Zealand is a nation that exports at least 85 percent, if not 90 percent, of what it produces. So having put that in place, this amendment bill, I believe, is the next step, and the next positive step, for Fonterra, because it must compete internationally and it needs to succeed for the benefit of New Zealand. Really, what we are talking about here is a construct that actually uses sunlight, water, and the elements of the earth to produce protein, and changes that protein into something that can be exported to 150 countries around the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EThe Act was also designed to encourage contestability. That was understandable, because we wanted to see a dynamic and vigorous Fonterra, and this is what we do have. So we go back to those times when these issues arose around redemption risk. We have had it articulated from the chairman of the Primary Production Committee that there was a triple whammy, as it were, where redemption risk became quite evident and the international bankers valued that at $1 billion. One has only to stop and think what that would do to the fiscal settings and economic settings of a company to be able to conduct itself in an orderly and effective way. In talking about growth and entering other markets, you can understand the dilemma that the governance structure of Fonterra would have faced. So from that point of view we want to also realise that back in 2006-08 it was the very governance structure of Fonterra that has brought it back to the situation where it is dynamic and is taking this next step. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003ESo without going any further, this bill has been well canvassed. Trading Among Farmers is a relatively simple and straightforward exercise. The size that Fonterra specifies for this pool is somewhere in the region of 12 to 14 percent, and I wish that this exercise proves very fruitful and achieves the very goals that Fonterra has set itself. If it does not, there is the catch net within this piece of legislation to ensure that the status quo is enforced and that free entry and exit are maintained. I have great pleasure in supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022571e773dc87441d4a46b6d2e0be88077\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022571e773dc87441d4a46b6d2e0be88077\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Party will be opposing the third reading of the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill. I say we will be opposing it with a sense of regret, because it did not need to be that way. Actually, we well understand what Fonterra\u2019s objectives are. It wants to expand its capital base, and it wants to protect itself against redemption risk. The Labour Opposition, through our spokesperson Damien O\u2019Connor, who actually is supported by every member of our caucus, put forward an amendment on Supplementary Order Paper 85 that would have provided a safeguard for the future of Fonterra as a mutual company, and one where the shareholding and the dividends would remain predominantly within New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI deeply regret that the Minister for Primary Industries, David Carter, rejected that amendment, and I deeply regret that he rejected it on the wrong basis. He rejected it, he said, because he had received it late and it was a political stunt. It was not a political stunt; it was something that Damien O\u2019Connor had worked out very carefully with Fonterra, yet the Minister said that Fonterra was opposed to it. That was his opening line in the Committee stage. Fonterra was not opposed to it; Fonterra helped to draft it, and that would have provided the reassurance that many farmers and many New Zealanders want, that this process was designed to strengthen Fonterra, not to undermine it, and that it was not the top of the slippery slope. I think Shane Ardern used the words \u201Ca slippery slope to oblivion\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI think that is the concern that is out there amongst many farmers. Shane Ardern is in touch with many farmers, and he will know the truth of that. I get the farmers\u2019 newspapers every week. There are three or four of them. I am amazed at how vibrant the farming sector\u2019s newspapers are. I read about the concerns and I read about the dismay. I will tell you what I read this week: I read that a couple of Northland farmers are taking the first steps to set up a rural New Zealand party\u2014a rural New Zealand party\u2014based on the sort of thing the Government has done in steamrolling this through without listening to their concerns. You know, those farmers do not like the shiny suits in the National Party. They do not like the fact that their party has been taken over by the currency speculators and the traders and the speculators. They have had a gutsful of that. They have had a gutsful of the sorts of people whom John Banks says he represents. John Banks, the member for Epsom, said he loves farmers. His electorate, Epsom, is full of farmers\u2014Queen Street farmers! They are the guys who have never done a day\u2019s work in their lives. They are the guys who would not know how to pull on a pair of gumboots. They are not the guys who are out there at 4 o\u2019clock in the morning, milking the cows, or out there in the rain, as I was last weekend, helping to deliver lambs. They would not have a clue about that. That is what has happened to the National Party: it has been taken over by the Queen Street farmers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EIt is all very well\u2014[Interruption] They are excited now. You see, there is a huge division within the National Party between the old National Party\u2014people like Shane Ardern and Ian McKelvie, who actually know what a farmer is like\u2014and the, I was going to use a term that I cannot use, smart, shiny-bummed people in the National Party who would not understand a sheep or a cow if they fell across one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI was concerned that David Carter talked about the lack of cross-party support. I was in the House and in Cabinet when the Labour Government passed the 2001 Dairy Industry Restructuring Act. We did that very carefully. Shane Ardern nods his head, and he was right\u2014and so was David Carter, actually. We consulted, we listened, and we took the process carefully. We took all the time that it needed, and we won consensus for that. It was worthwhile making that effort, but not in the case of this bill. This bill, if you read the minority report from the Opposition parties, was rushed through the Primary Production Committee. The committee did not listen. It did not consult. It did not look at all the alternatives. It did not have answers to a lot of the questions that the submitters put to the select committee. It was a poor process, and the result of that poor process is that this important piece of legislation is going through with the House as deeply divided as the farming community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI want to pick up the Minister on the other point he made. He said that 66.5 percent of the farmer vote was in favour of the bill. That is wrong. It was 66.5 percent of the milkfat production, and it was the farmers who were responsible for that who voted for it. I am told, and Damien O\u2019Connor is told, and Shane Ardern probably knows, that the figure was actually closer to 50 percent. If it was not close to 50 percent, I issue this challenge to Federated Farmers and the National Party\u2014that is, the Federated Farmers in gumboots\u2014release the figures. Release the figures. We know that at least a third of the farmers in this country bitterly oppose this legislation in its current form. Actually, I think the figure was close to half, and I believe that, because if it was not close to half, the National Party would have released the figures or Federated Farmers would have done so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWhat we wanted from this bill was quite simple. We wanted a statutory cap on the number of bonds representing share value that could be sold from the fund. After consultation with Federated Farmers, that was set at 23 percent. It will probably try to set the figure lower, and I welcome that, at 20 percent, but it gave it a bit of room to manoeuvre. Why 23 percent? Because it is lower than that commonly accepted figure of 24.9 percent, where a minority shareholder can nevertheless determine the future and the direction of the company. It was not too much to ask. It could have been done. It should have been done. It would have provided guarantees that we would maintain the cooperative nature of Fonterra, and it would have given those guarantees to farmers and to New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI spent a lot of my career as a Minister going out and fighting for Fonterra. It was a company worth fighting for. It provides 15,000 jobs. It provided last year close to $11 billion worth of dairy exports. It is an efficient industry. It is a good company. I want to make sure that that company thrives, but I am concerned when the Prime Minister of this country stands up and says that he believes that Fonterra shares should be floated on the stock market. I ask the three farmers sitting there in a row\u2014I will not use the pun of three people sitting in a row there\u2014I ask any one of them whether they support that as National policy. Do they support it as National policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b29253f54df4c36a0c33ee89b314ec9\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: It won\u2019t happen. They won\u2019t get floated\u2014don\u2019t worry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022292d976f880247c3816f91ae0df0c92c\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t worry, he tells me. John Key, their Prime Minister, said that it would be great if Fonterra shares were floated. Whom do I believe? Do I believe three backbenchers, representing the diminishing support of the farming community for National, or do I believe the currency trader John Key? I will tell you whom I believe: John Key. This is the top, as Shane Ardern said, of a slippery slope to oblivion of a cooperative enterprise, and a New Zealand - owned and controlled enterprise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe truth is that this lot over there, the National Government, would sell anything it could lay its hands on\u2014sell anything. It is already selling our basic productive resource: the land. Where was the concern expressed within the National Party about 8,000 hectares of prime dairy land going to Shanghai Pengxin? Where was the concern about that? Where was the concern from Bill English about thousands of hectares of prime dairy land in Southland going to German investors? This Government will sell the land. This Government will sell the shares in our biggest and most important export company. This Government will sell the shares in our electricity companies, and see the profits made from that fundamental strategic resource flow out of this country. It will even sell the prisons, and it will sell the right to gamble or make profits out of gambling. It will sell anything. There is no principle underlying the National Government about controlling New Zealand\u2019s future, about owning our future, about running New Zealand for New Zealanders by New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThat is what we would once have heard from the National Party, but it has given up. It has given up on protection of this country\u2019s future. It looks back to the past, and it was not a bad past, but what about the future for our kids? What will our kids own? What will our kids control? What will sovereignty mean in this country if our biggest and most important export industry ultimately falls into the hands of foreign investors? And how does it help our current account deficit, up by $480 million in the last quarter, which will be billions of dollars more within 2 years? This bill does not contain the clauses, the safeguards, that it needs to contain, and that is why the Labour Party will be strongly opposing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022f52b283430f94b30a9fca4a62ac7590f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f52b283430f94b30a9fca4a62ac7590f\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kia kaha. This bill, the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill, ensures we continue to have the most efficient and effective dairy industry in the world. It will ensure our dairy industry is able to meet the significant challenges ahead, both at home and abroad. Frankly, having listened to the last half-hour in this House, I could spend the next 20 minutes challenging almost everything that has been said, but I will not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277d2a5d886c04434a66efa63564ba695\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, go on! Just have a go at it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261d297d17f7d49dabae70cd4721c9488\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE\u003C/span\u003E: No, I would not do that to you, Mr Goff. I will not waste time. I have got a very short time here. This industry\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd94a71ff5194fa5abf02577cb591857\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022681fc08796ad4be5bb823e04822449b2\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE\u003C/span\u003E: On account of my age.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222df2596467534bc5aeece42d7df8faab\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s about another 2\u00BD years, I\u2019d say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291e90c62c02643c4a185f7e919340050\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am older. This industry has, as a result of this legislation, the confidence and ability to significantly assist the creation of new jobs for New Zealanders and to assist in the development\u2014and not only the development but the creation\u2014of a new way in relation to our environment and farming in New Zealand. It needs to have the strength and the confidence that this structure will give it to achieve that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EMany dairy farmers were uneasy about the ability of this Parliament to interfere in their business. They were a little nervous about what Parliament might do to their industry. I am pleased to say that we have not damaged their industry but strengthened it by the actions of this House. In the Trading Among Farmers scheme its market price, in my view, will be set by the response to the market. It will eventually manage the milk prices well. What I mean by that is that as this system eases into place, the share price will eventually measure and monitor, or set, effectively, the milk price. So I think this scheme, Trading Among Farmers, is an extremely good scheme for the future of the dairy industry and I think it will give some resilience to Fonterra and some resilience to this industry that it much needs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThere has been a lot of talk about the fact that Trading Among Farmers sells the New Zealand industry to overseas interests or to other people. I can assure members of the Opposition that the only people who will sell this industry are the New Zealand farmers; no one else has the ability to sell it. So if it is ever sold, it will be the New Zealand farmers who will do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EMr Browning, a member for who knows where, accuses us of selling out the industry, as I said. I think he has also made a lot of statements during the course of this bill about the environmental matters created by the dairy industry. As I said earlier, this bill will give this industry the confidence and the income to significantly change the way that it works. The ball is now clearly in the dairy farmers\u2019 hands, and I am convinced they will pick up the ball and run with it hard for the benefit of us all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI just very briefly want to acknowledge the great effort put into the development of this legislative process by so many passionate and enthusiastic dairy industry people. There were a large number of diverse opinions expressed during the course of this bill\u2019s passage through the House, and indeed it was a mission for us on the Primary Production Committee to get our heads around some of the early parts of this bill. There have been a number of statements made about the time that the select committee had this bill for. Frankly, I got my head around it, and I think everyone had plenty of time to get their heads around the matters that were raised both by the submitters and by other members who presented to that select committee, so I think the process was a good one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI am confident this bill has the best interests of New Zealand and its dairy farmers at its crux. I guess I am a little perplexed, as I said, that the entire House did not get their heads around how this would be moved forward. However, I am confident that we have made the very best decision for both New Zealand and the dairy industry, and I am pleased to recommend that this bill progress through the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022079dfa16336b4524b34bc32d5057c368\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022079dfa16336b4524b34bc32d5057c368\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the next member I advise the House that this is a split call and members will be given a warning bell with 1 minute remaining. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u002227cb28d08ffc440ead893a57e0513545\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227cb28d08ffc440ead893a57e0513545\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. It seems I am going to be talking about milk quite a lot this week in Parliament. Tomorrow I will be speaking about breast milk, but for today I am talking about the milk that keeps this country strong. Yes, that probably is breast milk as well, but with regard to this bill, the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill, we are talking about the future of our dairy industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThe future of our dairy industry is something that we must take very seriously indeed. I am very concerned to hear the reports, although I was not on the Primary Production Committee, of how rushed this legislation was through the select committee. After all, this is the industry that is the backbone of our nation. The legislation ought to have been taken seriously by all sides of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EFor Labour\u2019s part, we feel very strongly about the hugely successful cooperative model that has actually seen Fonterra become one of our few international success stories. In New Zealand we do not have many companies that can actually compete in the international market in the way that Fonterra does, and it is a huge success story for something different from the corporate model\u2014the cooperative model. It is a model that has been owned successfully now for many, many decades by New Zealand farmers. I guess the rest of us also feel that we have shares in Fonterra, because it is such an important part of our economy. It is such an important part of everything that happens in our country, and for those of us who live in the provinces\u2014and I am from the Waikato area\u2014it is such an important part of how our local economies operate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003ESo this should not have been a piece of legislation that was ever rushed through select committee. I believe that it was rushed through for entirely the wrong reasons. There was a bit of a panic going on. There was a panic going on from Government\u2014and have we not seen that? It is a bit of a theme for this Government as it panics its way through a number of political mishaps at the moment. I sincerely hope that this does not become another one of those political mishaps, but it certainly could easily do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThis bill does open up the opportunity for our successful flagship cooperative model company to have shares sold off overseas. Again, it is a continuing theme that is happening through this Government as we are also dealing with the State assets sale issue at the moment as well, so there are themes running through. I know that Fonterra was deeply concerned about this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI talked about farmers and the rest of us as if I do not fall into that category myself, but I actually fielded a phone call from Fonterra as it got a bit panicked about how the vote might go on Trading Among Farmers. I received one of those phone calls at home as a Fonterra shareholder, asking me to participate in a survey in the days leading up to that vote. I think Shane Ardern looks like he may have participated in such a survey as well. Perhaps there was a high proportion of MPs who actually got asked the survey questions from Fonterra, but the phones were running red hot as Fonterra did urgent surveys to try to find out whether it would get that slim majority\u2014which, in fact, it ended up getting\u2014to get this Trading Among Farmers through. But it is very controversial, and I know that there are deeply held concerns within the farming community, and, more broadly, the agricultural community. Farmers are part of that, but the entire community, which relies on this very important industry as the backbone of what we do in this country, has a concern about the lack of protection in this bill to ensure that we keep that very successful and very important cooperative model. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI am very proud to say that I am, with my Labour colleagues, in opposition to this bill. I think it has too many risks. We have a very successful model in Fonterra. I want to keep that very successful model in place. It has been sustainable in the past. I do not accept the arguments coming from the Government and I oppose the third reading of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00228e287a25d6bb476baad1336c84f78e76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e287a25d6bb476baad1336c84f78e76\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Tuarua, ki ng\u0101 mema o t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Tuatoru, mihi atu ki te Wiki o Te Reo M\u0101ori n\u0101 reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, the Speaker of the House. Secondly, greetings to you all, members of our House. Thirdly, acknowledgments to M\u0101ori Language Week, so greetings to you all collectively.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe Green Party would have liked to support the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill. We have concerns about the environmental management of dairying, but we want Fonterra to succeed. The bill introduces a new milk price regime to strengthen the existing incentives for Fonterra to operate in accordance with the existing contestability standards in the substantive Act. It gives statutory backing to Fonterra\u2019s existing governance and transparency processes by including them in the bill. It also introduces a new system for monitoring the farm-gate milk price to be done by the Commerce Commission, and the Commerce Commission will assess whether the farm-gate milk price provides incentives for Fonterra to operate efficiently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThat is useful, but the Green Party\u2019s concerns with the bill centre on the new share trading system, Trading Among Farmers. The purpose of Trading Among Farmers is to provide a capital base to act or to use as a buffer against redemption risk or the risk of losing capital because farmers leave the cooperative. Government members argue that Trading Among Farmers is an effective substitute for existing share issue and surrender obligations when farmers enter or leave the cooperative so that they can continue to do that freely. Our concern is that introducing Trading Among Farmers signals a shift to the demutualisation and corporatisation of Fonterra. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ELeonie Guiney summed up these concerns in her submission to the Primary Production Committee. She framed the issue as a choice between keeping Fonterra New Zealand - owned and able to put cash into communities through the milk price, or enabling Fonterra to become a target for large-scale overseas investors. She said that Trading Among Farmers was \u201Ca temporary solution to a problem of redemption risk that is being exaggerated, with an eventual loss of farmer ownership and control.\u201D The Green Party agrees. The bill will benefit capital markets from trading, but it is questionable whether in the long term it will benefit dairy farmers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EFonterra is the world\u2019s No. 1 dairy cooperative. Trading Among Farmers creates a hybrid structure and two competing sets of principles between those regulating stock markets and those governing cooperatives, and that is where our concern lies. As a cooperative Fonterra currently aligns the interests of dairy farmers who want their milk collected and a fair price given and the fiduciary duties of the board to act in the interests of suppliers. But Trading Among Farmers changes that, and as the James Morrison Consulting report, as independent advice to the select committee, said: \u201CThe introduction of a new class of external investor as proposed in TAF creates a conflict for directors that is not resolved by the dairy farmer retaining voting rights \u2026\u201D and \u201CThe tensions that will inevitably arise between farmer suppliers to Fonterra, external investors, and the Fonterra board\u2019s fiduciary duties to those investors, cannot simply be contracted out of by the proposed systems. They represent\u201D\u2014Mr Morrison said\u2014\u201Ca high risk of ongoing conflict between investors and supplying farmers.\u201D And the result and likely outcome of that will be, he said, that the ownership of Fonterra becomes increasingly separate from farming over a timeframe of several decades. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAs other speakers in this debate have noted, where you get this conflict of interest between investors and suppliers, every cooperative that has introduced external investors to its capital structure has eventually either demutualised or reverted back to a full cooperative by excluding those external investors. The fundamental changes to the successful cooperative structure of Fonterra are the reason why the Green Party is opposing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u00226eb5e53f0b254e45abd421c05d7cddb7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226eb5e53f0b254e45abd421c05d7cddb7\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E This is a short call, but I am pleased to take a call on the third reading of this very, very important bill for all New Zealanders, the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill. The overarching aim of this bill is, of course, to ensure that New Zealand has the most efficient dairy industry that we can possibly have. The Dairy Industry Restructuring Act was passed some 10 years ago. It was an innovative and quite unique approach for this country and, indeed, globally that maximises our trade opportunities out there in the big wide economy, and also provides the opportunities and competitive balance, which are required domestically. It has provided a tremendous platform, and we can see that by the level of growth in Fonterra. Dairying is now recognised as earning this country twice what the nearest sector behind it does, and I very much want to commend the farmers and Fonterra for the passion and the work that they do for themselves and this nation. It is very important. This bill introduces a new regime related to Fonterra\u2019s milk price setting and, of course, the proposed capital restructure that we have been discussing today as Trading Among Farmers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EInterestingly enough, earlier this year I met with a number of farmers as the policy proposal rolled forward, and it would be fair to say that about 90 percent of them raised significant issues with the following matters. They were around square curving and the ability for competitors to take milk at a time and a price that suited them; the virtual processes and a little bit of smoke and mirrors that has evolved in the 10 or so years since Fonterra was created; and the ability for competing companies to take their 50 million litres of milk ad infinitum. All these matters are being addressed as part of this legislation, and I am very happy to say, after many conversations and meetings with famers, that they are very much satisfied with the direction that the National Government is taking. I will also say that the issue of Trading Among Farmers, actually, was very much a background issue and continued to be so, certainly in my electorate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EJust very briefly on the farm-gate milk price, in essence what we have is a situation where this bill will provide a greater level of transparency. A regulatory agency will release a report to add value to this transparency, and I think this is in the interests not only of Fonterra but also of all New Zealanders and competitors, and it is about having the appropriate balance. Trading Among Farmers\u2014I only have one comment to make on this, and that is that this bill enables it; it does not impose it. The member Steffan Browning said that Fonterra does not have a mandate after the 66 percent vote returned, because he believes that not enough people voted. I am not sure how he worked that out\u2014perhaps he has a crystal ball he could share with other members in the House. He also thinks that because it is not a one farmer, one vote system it is patently unfair. I would like to point out to that member that, in actual fact, Fonterra set the terms of its vote. Fonterra certainly advertised and made Fonterra shareholders very much aware that the vote was going on, and they participated in that vote. By anyone\u2019s count that is a mandate, and I would suggest that the contribution of Mr Browning, that Green member, is about as much use to this House as teats on a bull. For that reason I am very pleased to support this bill, and to commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d96a879d97f94d98a219171798020a48\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 8; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002285888cdd84a348cfbfe133d7ff24d90c\u0022\u003EFamilies Commission Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d895041d8c3f4d14888b5b623cd30903\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022d652f9c21091423ebac1023d5b5951dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d652f9c21091423ebac1023d5b5951dd\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. I move, That the Families Commission Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Social Services Committee to consider the bill, and at the appropriate time I will be moving that the committee reports back to the House finally on or before 27 November 2012. This bill will allow the Families Commission to be more relevant, efficient, and purposeful than ever before. It will focus the commission on independent monitoring, evaluation, and research, specifically filling current gaps within the social sector, as well as its current function of acting as an advocate for families generally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E The purpose of this legislation is to enable the technical changes that underpin this restructure. The amendments to the Families Commission Act will introduce a new function in research, monitoring, and evaluation; establish a social science experts panel; remove the title of commissioner from all but one member, who becomes the sole Families Commissioner; require the Families Commission to develop the annual Families Status Report; and give the commission access to statistical information in accordance with the relevant sections of the Statistics Act 1975. These changes give effect to the National and United Future confidence and supply agreement. Essentially, the bill enables some technical changes to be made so that we can refocus the Families Commission to get the best out of it. I welcome the select committee scrutiny of this bill in respect of these technical changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003ELet me explain the vision, though, that will follow these changes. Although it was outside the scope of the bill for the select committee\u2019s purposes, I think it is helpful in terms of explaining the context. We are taking $3.5 million of the $8 million a year in funding and channelling it into the new Social Policy Evaluation and Research Unit, known as SuPERU. This unit will independently monitor and evaluate programmes and initiatives in the social sector\u2014a job currently done largely by Government departments. I believe giving that role to a more independent body is beneficial, and will see more NGOs entering into more robust evaluation and monitoring. The truth is, how many NGOs are actually going to go to the body that funds them, to get a true evaluation done on their effectiveness, if they feel that at some level that funding might be under jeopardy, depending on what that sort of outcome is? Having a more independent body where they can get that robust research and evaluation done I think gives a level of distance from Government, which is important. I hope that we eventually see it being even more independent than what it currently is, and that we set it up accordingly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand there is a serious lack of evidence of what works in this country. We have thousands of social organisations working in the community, often with very vulnerable and at-risk families and individuals. But we often lack sufficiently robust evidence, through monitoring and evaluation, to be able to confidently say whether they are making a positive and tangible difference. The Social Policy Evaluation and Research Unit will be able to radically change that picture over time. It will not be an overnight kind of change. But unless we start setting out the right avenue and the right place for that to happen, then we cannot get the change that we need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EAn important part of this is the rigour that will be alongside of it\u2014academic peer review and guidance from a social science experts panel. This is being headed up by the Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Adviser, Sir Peter Gluckman. That panel will bring academic and scientific rigour, which will ensure the Families Commission\u2019s future as a highly regarded centre for evaluation. The type of research that I anticipate a unit of this calibre will commission will be pertinent, relevant, and really useful. It may not be doing all of the research itself, but currently we do not have a place of excellence where the research that the Government is commissioning, as far as research from universities goes, has somewhere to go through and actually collect all of that data. So individual departments do it at the moment\u2014quite well, in some cases\u2014for specific purposes, but it is not actually being collected in one place and having that right kind of avenue to go through it. I think that is going to make a huge difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003ELet me give you a bit of an example, which I think is the best way to describe it. An example could be that a town has decided that it wants to set up a youth programme, because anecdotally it believes there is a need for it. They are seeing young people in the street\u2014and we hear this all the time. I see them being able to go directly to the Social Policy Evaluation and Research Unit. So they may get money from a philanthropist, they may have saved some funding themselves, or they may get money from Government\u2014and that is a reality\u2014to fund that bit of research. The first thing they will do is get the scoping work done. They will scope what really is there, get it done slightly independently, and then they can have the research done and get an idea of what is best practice. I imagine that the Social Policy Evaluation and Research Unit will have the five components that are really necessary to make a successful youth programme, and then they can design it around that to be the best programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EAt the moment, we have it done in a very ad hoc way. A good organisation will go out and meet other good organisations and ask them what they do and how they do it. They may try to get a bit of research done themselves, or look at what research is available. But it is not done in a way where it is collected easily, and it is at the whim of, usually, an individual who goes out and does it. Imagine having a place that has that kind of rigour behind it, and has that kind of academic research. I eventually see Governments accessing more research through this unit. I see them asking for assistance from it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe other thing is that the Families Commission, with the other $3.5 million, will be doing what it does already: the White Ribbon Day campaign, and the family violence prevention work it does. We will also be requiring a families status report, which for the first time will be really analysing each year where families are at and how we measure that against it, which I think is very important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe organisation remains an autonomous Crown entity. There are changes to the governance structure. So there will be one commissioner, as I have said, and then there will be a board underneath that. That board will be made up of everyone from people on community organisations to philanthropists and others. Then there is this, I think, very important experts panel under Sir Peter Gluckman that will have that academic rigour behind it, which I think will really enhance the quality of the work that is coming out and its relevance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe one thing I have learnt in this job is that you cannot go backwards and start collecting information differently from how you do collect it, so that you can analyse it and get the right evidence. The truth is that in the first year when I was there and looked at what programmes were working for my own Ministry of Social Development\u2019s $550 million spend on about 4,500 contracts to 2,300 organisations, I could not tell the New Zealand public how effective they really were. Then when I did an analysis of all of those, which took quite some time, what came out of it was: 20 percent were evaluated and doing a very good job, 20 percent were doing an absolutely shocking job and in some respects may actually have been doing harm, and the truth of the matter is that for 60 percent we did not know. So we have dropped the contracts for the 20 percent that were doing such a poor job, and we have backed the 20 percent that are doing a great job. For that 60 percent, which is obviously most of them, that are in the middle, we are now trying to collect information, get their outcomes more focused on what we are trying to achieve, and in many cases work our way through what is such a massive job of building up that kind of evidence base that we need as to what does work. But it is not a job that happens overnight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EI think this bill and this research unit are going to make a fundamental difference to how we get that kind of evidence behind it to be used by NGOs, to be used by financial institutions, and to be used by government, and have that level of independence. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee07d972f6ec4ca59763e4ab9289cde9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee07d972f6ec4ca59763e4ab9289cde9\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Tuatahi, e ng\u0101 wh\u0101nau wh\u0101nui o te motu ka nui te mihi ki a koutou, n\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koutou katoa. Kia ora, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E[Firstly, to the families at large of the nation, a huge acknowledgment to you collectively, so greetings, greetings, and greetings indeed. Thank you, Mr Speaker.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003ELabour will support the Families Commission Amendment Bill going to the Social Services Committee. Labour certainly is committed to families and believes that families are the foundation of our society and that family well-being is critical to the development of our children and to other members of our families and communities. However, it is important to note that National has never been a strong supporter of the Families Commission, and it was only going to be a matter of time before it began to restructure the commission in this way. Judith Collins certainly regularly attacked the commission in Opposition, as did the Minister for Social Development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EOf course, this restructuring that the Minister has talked about is not starting with this bill. It has actually been going on for some time: the types of appointments that have been made to the commission, the transfer of funds from the commission to other entities, and \u201Cshaping\u201D the work of the commission\u2014so much so that in recent times even the current chief commissioner has resiled from probably one of the best pieces of work that the commission has done, on paid parental leave, because he took the particular political line that the country could not afford it. That demonstrates the way in which the commission has, in a sense, been prevailed upon by this Government and by this Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe Families Commission is an autonomous Crown entity, and that means something. It has to work at arm\u2019s length from the Government. The amendments to the Families Commission in this bill actually, from our perspective, begin to seriously circumscribe the role of the commission. It is beginning to look a lot more like a Government department or a Government ministry. We make those comments with some thought.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E The commission will have a new evaluation and monitoring role for the social sector. The Minister has just now explained what her vision is as to how that might operate. I guess if we are setting up a unit within an autonomous Crown entity to have a monitoring, evaluation, and research function in that particular way, it is really difficult to see where it might end up. In new section 8A in clause 7 we get a more detailed statement on how the Government sees the commission operating. With its additional functions here, it appears to us that the commission will do the Minister\u2019s bidding. Under the Crown Entities Act, which applies to the Families Commission, currently the Government can direct the commission only to have regard to Government policies. But when we look at new section 8A, the commission actually becomes an arm of government, and is required to do a whole bunch of stuff for the Government. New section 8A says that the additional functions, including evaluation, are \u201Cto commission research in the social sector on behalf of the Government\u201D. Why is the Government not doing its own research? This is an independent commission set up to work in a particular way and to manage contracts. Now the commission, this particular unit within the commission, will be managing the contracts in the social sector on behalf of the Government. Those are just two of the provisions of that particular clause. The commission will now undertake research on behalf of the Government and will manage contracts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022024bb48dc2cb4e4998dac2f88f3beb6b\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: This is a front-bench bid, Rajen\u2014bidding for the front bench.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022230ab459d15c4c7c94c394c8fa06b263\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: Has the member from Tauranga read this bill? Does he know anything about this particular bill, or is he still bored with his own portfolio? Mr Bridges, listen\u2014you might learn something. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe commission, through these kinds of provisions, is being developed into not a Crown entity but an arm of government, and therefore a department or ministry. We have to ask, and we will ask in the select committee, whether this should remain a commission. That is an important question. If it is circumscribed in this way and is being directed by the Minister to this extent, then why is it a commission? Autonomous Crown entities are supposed to go and do the work on contemporary issues themselves. The commission should do its work and then put the evidence of that where it lies. That is the work of an independent body. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe Ministry of Social Development has a multimillion-dollar Centre for Social Research and Evaluation. It is the activities from there that are being transferred to the Families Commission. They actually belong to that particular unit. Here is a multimillion-dollar centre\u2014tens of millions of dollars have been spent there\u2014but this function is to be transferred to the Families Commission, which has about $3 million to do that with. One can see the sincerity of that particular approach, and we have major questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe other change is the change to the advocacy function of the commission. This is the strength of the commission\u2014to go and examine topics, to do the work, and to bring it back. In addition to all of that, clause 6 requires the commission to prepare an annual Family Status Report. That is a large piece of work, and quite a lot of resources will be gobbled up by that particular role. What kind of report will be produced? The Hon Peter Dunne says he has seen the English example and that the English example is one he wants to emulate. I have the English examples here, both the first and second reports: The State of the Nation Report: Fractured Families, and the second one, which is recommendations, Policy Recommendations to the Conservative Party. Larry Baldock will be very pleased with the approach taken in the state of the families report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003ESo what is being done here? At the select committee we will want to know what is the scope of that particular report and what kinds of things are required. That might give us a bit more of a steer as to what the Minister or the commission has in mind. Again, the expertise for that kind of work lies in the Ministry of Social Development. The ministry produces the Social Report, and it takes a lot of resources to produce that. This is a kind of social report on families. Why are those two things not being linked, and the largest department that has the greatest amount of resources doing that work? No, it is being transferred into something that is an independent commission. Here we have the role of Government departments being transferred on to an autonomous Crown entity\u2014the Families Commission\u2014and we have to ask why, because that really is saying that we do not need a Families Commission. If that is what the Minister is saying, would it not be honest to actually come out with that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThen there is this notion\u2014the Government\u2019s arrangements with the commission are also being changed. There will be one Families Commissioner. There will be a board and there will be one Families Commissioner. The role of the Families Commissioner is not defined. In fact, it is left to the board. Currently other\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cf1f03199934236941963fee5b86c7d\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll put you on it if you sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225920e4fbbc334d119aa2c8a36c6cf6b0\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: I have been there, Mr Bridges. I know a lot more about it than you or all of your members put together, which is why I am talking carefully and with some experience on the bill. That member is so bored with this. If you do not know something about something, Mr Bridges, do not go there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EIndeed, this is a problem. Can the Minister not describe what the role of the commissioner in the Families Commission is? That person will not necessarily be the chair of the board. They will be with the transition, but not necessarily, as members will describe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EIn addition to that, there is also a review panel. Here is the Minister telling a research institution how to do its work. The Minister has good grounds to ask for peer review. That then opens up for the commission; it is doing that work now. Any expert in New Zealand or internationally is used by the Families Commission for peer reviews. But here we are putting this panel right in there. I think it is interference, and I think it is designed to hold and control the commission so it does not get lost anywhere, does not do the kinds of things it might do, and does not criticise Government policies. Well, if that is what the Government\u2019s agenda is, then we will ask\u2014and we will keep on asking\u2014why we have a Families Commission, because what this bill does is make it look more and more like a Government department. It makes it look more and more like a ministry, and many of its functions are already today in ministries with far greater resources. Significant roles are being transferred from there on to a commission. It looks like the commission accepts those, but we will want to question it as to how it is going to fulfil these roles with the rather limited amount of resources it currently has, and how it is going to address the real advocacy functions that, indeed, are the cornerstone for this particular commission. We have serious concerns. We will ask them, but that will happen at the select committee. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022d19645bbfa9e4f42b0d549b8246171b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d19645bbfa9e4f42b0d549b8246171b5\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Mana Whakaw\u0101, koia nei Te Wiki o Te Reo M\u0101ori me whakanuia e t\u0101tau. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Speaker. This is M\u0101ori Language Week and we must celebrate it. Thank you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI hope I did that correctly in te reo. It is, after all, M\u0101ori Language Week. It was interesting to listen to the member who just sat down, Rajen Prasad. Obviously, as he said, he was a Families Commissioner, and he does, in fact, know probably more than most of us as to what goes on in the Families Commission. But it was interesting to note how he forgot to mention that is was, in fact, his party\u2019s policy to get rid of the Families Commission. I believe that it was Annette King who tried to get rid of it, in the previous Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EFamilies are the very heart of our community. They make us laugh; they often make us cry. Different people, different generations, and different cultures have different expectations of what families should do. In New Zealand, with our diverse culture, there are so many different expectations of what families should be, but there is one core function that our families have in common, and that is the nurturing, rearing, socialisation, and protection of our children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe restructuring of the Families Commission will streamline the core function, which is advocating for families. It was really wonderful to see the vision from the Minister for Social Development, the reason why she wants to streamline the Families Commission, and how she actually sees the Social Policy Evaluation and Research Unit working. It was lovely to actually get some detail on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe Families Commission will remain an autonomous Crown entity and will continue to work on issues that are important to families, within a leaner, more focused structure\u2014and focused and leaner is actually really good. The commission will be more streamlined, as I say. The new families status report will measure just how New Zealand families are doing. I think that will be a really wonderful read. I would love to read that report at the end of it, because, over generations, families have changed. The way we operate has changed, and the definition of families has changed as well. It will be wonderful when every year the Families Commission comes up with the status report on how our New Zealand family is performing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe Families Commission Amendment Bill is a great bill, and I look forward to the submissions to the Social Services Committee. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002257642b60231e4fafb4091433bc7f6cb6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257642b60231e4fafb4091433bc7f6cb6\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Families Commission Amendment Bill. Obviously we are discussing the commission that was established under a Labour Government. At that time, I think it is fair for us to point out, Peter Dunne was a significant driver of the establishment of the Families Commission. I do have to raise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a20fa61f8b6f4b12b760c000abd1598b\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: He insisted on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6fa30387bce45dd984b2fd900e0f434\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: He did, indeed, insist on it, says my colleague Andrew Little. I do have to question, and I will be asking this question of the Minister in the chair during the Committee stage: would she still have the Families Commission in place if it were not for Peter Dunne\u2019s ongoing role in propping up the National Government? What may be called \u201Cstreamlined\u201D by that side of the House is actually neutering, if we are honest. What this bill does is rip the guts out of the Families Commission and leave it. It loses its advocacy role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b4f7ac2394e4d17875865afc03d5d33\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Well if it\u2019s neutering, it\u2019s not the guts, Jacinda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d75bf9d0a3b4afc956298a8c13777c3\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: So let us get into a little more detail. I will have Simon Bridges speak no more of neutering. I know how he feels about animal welfare. So we will leave it at that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ELabour does support this bill going to the Social Services Committee, but our view is that this does not go far enough. In fact, it is Labour\u2019s view that the Families Commission should be disestablished altogether. I will spend a little more time talking about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBut why does it not go far enough? Well, originally, the Families Commission was established to advocate for families in whatever form they existed. I think we have seen clear evidence in recent times that the Families Commission has lost that role. I would not wish to guess as to the reason why it has done that. I could hazard a guess that political pressure has played a role, because if you look at one example where we have seen the Families Commission push aside its advocacy role, there would be no better than paid parental leave. We had the Chief Families Commissioner stand up and tell the New Zealand public that on one of the most soundly based, in terms of evidence, policies around the importance of child development and the role of the first 6 months in forming an attachment with their family in developing a strong, stable footing for a child in those first 6 months, he was not sure New Zealand could afford it. I would say that New Zealand cannot afford not to bring in a policy like that, supported by Sue Moroney and her member\u2019s bill. To have the Families Commissioner stand up against the extension of paid parental leave\u2014how is that acting as an advocate for families? That was absolutely nonsensical to me. What happened to evidence? What happened to advocating based on research and sound practice and evidence? That, for me, was the point at which we really saw the Families Commission tip over the edge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIf we want to talk about streamlining, which the Government member who just took her seat, Melissa Lee, talked about, the ultimate form of streamlining would be to get rid of it entirely and beef up the Children\u2019s Commissioner and the Office of the Children\u2019s Commissioner. In fact, add some additional support around that from the central government perspective, as well. Bring in a Minister for children, create a children\u2019s ministry where the Office of the Children\u2019s Commissioner is acting as a direct advocate, and put pressure on the children\u2019s Minister to act in the best interests of children. That would be the ultimate form of streamlining. Surely, we can all accept that advocating on behalf of children, a strong Children\u2019s Commissioner, and a strong role within central government would be in the best interest of families as well, so there by default picking up the job that the Families Commission has long since abandoned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThis bill, instead, keeps the Families Commission. But it does, as I have said, weaken the role that it plays, and Rajen Prasad would know that well. Given that he was once in the Families Commission, he can see intimately the changes that have been made here and what a difference it will make to the way it operates. Moving to one commissioner, as I have said, would be pointless if they are not an advocate, anyway. What is the point of one commissioner who does not advocate for families when you have seven who currently do not, anyway? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThen it is creating a centre for family and wh\u0101nau. Again, if you cannot guarantee the independence of this group, are we not then creating a new unit within a Government department? If the Minister cannot demonstrate to us that that is not going to happen, then, again, I do not see the point of that. Surely, then, we should just ask the Ministry for Social Development to pick up that role\u2014it is, indeed, funded to play that kind of role.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe have heard much discussion and celebration from the other side of the House around the introduction of something called the annual families status report. In its own right that report might sound interesting or useful, but I would ask Government members to at least canvass this space in which they are now thrusting out this annual families status report. What already exists? Well, we have got the Social Report, which used to happen every year. It was a really comprehensive, important report, and it became the foundation of a lot of work that the Ministry for Social Development was doing for our families. But, unfortunately, the Social Report is no longer happening every year; it is happening every 3 years. We could probably have saved ourselves a lot of money by simply returning that report to an annual basis, and perhaps diluted the need for an annual families status report. We also have The New Zealand Children\u2019s Social Health Monitor. We have Bryan Perry\u2019s excellent work on the report Household incomes in New Zealand: trends in indicators of inequality and hardship 1982 to 2010, which generates, again, a lot of the policy development we see coming out of not just the Ministry for Social Development but other agencies working in this field. And we have the OECD income inequality report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe have the critical but underutilised Growing Up in New Zealand research, which is probably going to be the most useful piece of research for future development around children\u2019s policy and the policy for our families over the next 10, 20, 30 years. It is an extension of the kind of work that we had done in Dunedin\u2014the longitudinal study. I see that the Growing Up in New Zealand work is going to be transferred to this unit, and I can guarantee to the Government that this side of the House will be keeping a very watchful eye on the preservation of that critical piece of work. It is so important that we understand across a cross-section of our New Zealand families what it is to bring a new child into New Zealand and grow up in New Zealand. That is why that report is so, so key\u2014we have had two reports thus far. I would like to see the Ministry for Social Development utilising it a lot more. And I hope to see it in the alternative white paper; if it is not, we will be asking some big questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBut that is not the only report. Add to that the Salvation Army status report, the health report, the report coming out from the Health Committee on the first 1,000 days, the green paper, the white paper, and the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee work that Louisa Wall has been instrumental in instigating. All of these pieces of work exist, and my big question would be: how will the annual families status report add to that comprehensive list of work that already exists? And, secondly, if it is going to add to it\u2014I will be interested to see how it will bring something new to the table\u2014will we actually do anything with it? As Rajen Prasad has pointed out, we have certainly had plenty of pieces of work, including on paid parental leave, coming out of the Families Commission that have since been ignored\u2014not just ignored, but contradicted\u2014by the Chief Families Commissioner. It is one thing to produce a report; it is another thing to do something with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EMy final point is whether this newly structured Families Commission has the independence it needs when it comes to the research and evaluation function it will have through the new $3.8 million research and evaluation unit. New section 8A, \u201CCommission\u2019s monitoring, evaluation, and research function\u201D, states: \u201CIn order to perform its monitoring, evaluation, and research function, the Commission has the following additional functions: (a) to identify opportunities where evidence and research will assist in determining or achieving the Government\u2019s priorities in the social sector:\u201D. That is the wrong way around. The old legislation used to state: \u201Cto encourage and facilitate the development and provision, by Ministers of the Crown, departments of State, and other instruments of the Executive Government, of policies designed to promote or serve the interests of families:\u201D. It used to be that the research did not come with any bias. It was used to inform what the Government did. Now we are using the research and evaluation to prop up and support existing Government policies and ideas. It is the wrong way around. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIn fact, much of this bill is the wrong way around, and it is our contention that the way forward is to scrap this commission altogether. That is what we will be proposing when this bill goes to the select committee. I look forward to the Government members trying to justify this neutered commission\u2019s existence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022 data-id=\u00222e4b96dd2df44dfaa5a5891d38a107b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e4b96dd2df44dfaa5a5891d38a107b0\u0022\u003EDENISE ROCHE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. Ki te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. The Families Commission was set up in 2003, and I think that before we change something, it is quite useful to have a look at what it has been doing. The commission has been an able advocate for the interests of families and children. Its independent, critical role is not one that our society can afford to lose at this time. The Greens are concerned that the Families Commission Amendment Bill may negatively impact on the commission\u2019s capacity to continue with that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThe Families Commission\u2019s work has included supporting and developing programmes like White Ribbon Day\u2014a day recognised internationally, when men call for an end to domestic violence. This has now moved to a model of being self-funded, with communities and individuals promoting these events. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThe commission conducts fabulous research, including research into the causes of family violence and, amongst others, that fabulous paper on paid parental leave, which suggested that paid parental leave leads to better child outcomes. It has rightly identified that poor-quality rental accommodation is a major issue facing New Zealand families. In its submission to the Productivity Commission, when it was reporting on housing affordability, the Families Commission noted that poor-quality housing not only has a negative impact on family health outcomes but also can prevent families from accessing other support, because of the stresses associated with living in substandard, overpriced housing. Maybe this is the reason why the Government is restructuring the Families Commission, with this bill. These are not issues that this Government is interested in addressing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThe Government, I note, has been remarkably inconsistent about the Families Commission. In 2008, before the election, Mr Key put forward three different policies regarding the Families Commission, in 4 days. On the Monday he attracted applause from the NZ Forum on the Family by indicating that National would rather put the money currently spent on the Families Commission into NGOs. The next day he appeared to have changed his mind, and said that National would rebalance the Families Commission in a way that United Future\u2014the party that championed its establishment\u2014would find tolerable. Then, 2 days after that, Mr Key was reported as saying that it is likely that National would subsume the Office of the Children\u2019s Commissioner into the Families Commission, while criticising the worth of some of the Families Commission\u2019s work. I am just highlighting the shifting sands of the Government\u2019s thoughts on the Families Commission, because today we are looking at yet another change of direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003ESo, about this bill: firstly, we strongly support the monitoring and evaluation of programmes and services offered to prevent, and intervene in, the social issues that impact on our nation. We think there should be much more of it. We need to be continuously learning from new initiatives and the outcomes they produce. This needs to be much more than measuring the outputs of programmes; it needs to be the actual outcomes for individuals accessing them. This means learning from mistakes and fostering successes. Most important, it means listening to the service users who have the insight of experience, so we can ensure that the money we spend makes a real difference in people\u2019s lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EWe note that under this bill the monitoring and evaluation function will be transferred to the Families Commission. Until now that role has been undertaken by the Centre for Social Research and Evaluation, under the auspices of the Ministry of Social Development. The question remains why Sir Peter Gluckman has recommended that an evaluation function be moved to the Families Commission. We promote the idea of an evaluation of services, funded by the taxpayer, in theory, but we want it to be produced by a non-biased third party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EI want to know why it is not working. Why can evaluation and monitoring not be effectively and efficiently carried out by the existing Centre for Social Research and Evaluation, given that good public management includes the provision of free and frank advice to the Minister? Is there a problem within our public management system? Did the Minister or Sir Peter Gluckman have concerns about the ministry\u2019s ability to provide these evaluations? Is this sending us alarm bells of other, more endemic problems within the ministry? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003ESecondly, a newly appointed social science experts panel, which this bill will set up, gives us some concern. We are alarmed at how this may impact on the provision of non-biased, free and frank advice to the Minister. This Government\u2019s reliance on advisory groups is a worrying trend. The Welfare Working Group is a case in point. We are concerned that this Government will use these advisory committees to buy the advice and research that, frankly, fits with its own ideology. What we saw with the Welfare Working Group was a series of recommendations that fit with the policies this Government is keen to adopt, and now we see that playing out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003ELast week we saw the passing of the Social Security (Youth Support and Work Focus) Amendment Bill, where we see a more punitive approach\u2014under the guise of sanctions\u2014to young people who are either unemployed or young parents, and work testing for every other beneficiary, from here on in. We will be seeing drug testing of those on the unemployment benefit, too. Basically, we are revisiting models that have failed elsewhere in the world, but, funnily enough, they were suggestions from the advisory group the Government hired to back up its preconceived ideas. So it will introduce them anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EOf particular concern in this bill is the change to section 13, which says that the commission must be readily accessible to a wide range of views, but this applies only to the commission\u2019s advocacy function, not the monitoring, evaluation, and research of key issues, programmes, and interventions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThirdly, in the Families Commission\u2019s statement of intent we note that the budget for monitoring and evaluation has been decreased from $8,700 to $7,369. We question the volume and quality of evaluations that will be achieved on the commission\u2019s reduced budget. We also note that the performance measures and standards for the advisory services function do not indicate the number of programmes to be evaluated. It just says they will be done monthly or on request. We can assume from the statement of intent that there will be fewer programmes to look at. This does not reassure us that programmes will be adequately monitored and evaluated, and the findings disseminated to where they can be put to the most use. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EAt the end of May we asked the Minister, in a written question, about what work, if any, would be shifted from the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s Centre for Social Research and Evaluation as a result of the move to set up a new social policy evaluation and research unit within the Families Commission. We received the reply that apart from the report on Growing Up in New Zealand\u2014a good report, no doubt\u2014no decisions had been made on any staffing changes or distribution of research and evaluation responsibilities between the Families Commission and the Ministry of Social Development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EContrast this reduced budget and lack of focus with Australia, where the state and territory Governments have agreed to build a more solid evidence base on domestic violence and sexual assault as part of their national plan to reduce violence against women and children. They are committed to developing a centre of excellence to enhance the evidence base and improve on-the-ground responses to violence against women and children. The Federal Government is investing $86 million in national initiatives to improve the lives of women who have experienced violence, and towards stopping violence against women altogether. A centre for excellence versus a reduced Families Commission\u2014I know which country is investing in families. I hate to admit it, but the Australians are way ahead of us on understanding that there are longer-term costs associated with doing nothing about these social issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EWe will be voting against this bill. We believe it hands far too much power to the Minister to dictate research results that support the ideology of the day. We are unconvinced that the advocacy role of the Families Commission will remain unchanged, and, most important, we think that it does nothing to advance good outcomes for families. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2a111d29c524d5fa0f30f5405345f0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2a111d29c524d5fa0f30f5405345f0a\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Mana Whakaw\u0101. Kia ora e te Whare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022437f9862b0ae40adba5e81604680cc28\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267b775ef26a64646ba6a266161105e44\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Dr Prasad. H\u014Dmai te pakipaki. This measure needs to be seen in the context of the Government\u2019s commitment to the delivery of better public services for all New Zealanders. It provides for a leaner and more focused Families Commission, which will be taking on a new role, providing for independent monitoring, evaluation, and research to measure the effectiveness of initiatives across the social sector. We need to be confident that the Families Commission will be able to make a difference for families who are struggling, and we\u2014sorry, I should have put my glasses on! We need to be able to invest in interventions that we know will work. This is a serious matter, and I will be looking for evidence of that, and assurances to that effect, in our Social Services Committee deliberations. I support the first reading of this measure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00225566f1776f25484fb59715373ed6c85f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225566f1776f25484fb59715373ed6c85f\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Speaker has been informed that New Zealand First intends to split its call. There will be a 4-minute bell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u00222d30b2bd40c746b3826d88be5fe5e89b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d30b2bd40c746b3826d88be5fe5e89b\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak to the Families Commission Amendment Bill. New Zealand First will be opposing this bill. We need to be consistent with the approach that we had in 2003, when we opposed the setting up of the Families Commission. We opposed it then because we could not see how it could provide the practical, hands-on assistance that New Zealanders were actually looking for at that point in time\u2014and National opposed it too\u2014when we were told that research was going to be the prime focus of the Families Commission. Of course, we were also concerned with the millions of dollars that were needed to set up this research unit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is a family-friendly party, as are all the parties in this House, and we recognise the strength of the family unit. As my former colleague the late Hon Brian Donnelly said so many times\u2014and I have to quote this when it comes to the Families Commission\u2014\u201CThe quality of the future that we will leave to our children will be determined by the quality of the children whom we leave to the future, and the quality of those children will be determined by the quality of family relationships.\u201D So we do recognise how important this family unit is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIn 2003 we were told that the main focus of the Families Commission would be family-focused research, much of which was already being undertaken by the Ministry for Social Development. So why would one want to try to duplicate this role and spend extra dollars to get the same result? At the very outset, it was very easy for the Families Commission to become so nebulous that it could become all things to all people. We know that no organisation can survive if that is the path it has to follow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWhat we are seeing now is that the role of the Families Commission is being ramped back significantly. One must ask whether we really need this Families Commission. We have been told that hard economic times are upon us, and research in hard economic times must be focused and must have a very tangible output. One wonders, when one reads the Bills Digest, whether or not the new family status report, which is going to be developed to measure how families are getting on, is really what we are looking for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, it appears that the Hon Peter Dunne has sold out the Families Commission, which he negotiated so hard for with the Labour Government. New Zealand First would have thought that once a Minister had established a commission such as this as part of a confidence and supply agreement, carefully monitoring the result and ensuring that the output was the best possible would be a personal priority, and would be carried out, particularly when the Minister establishing it has always been a part of the Government\u2014but apparently not. I found a quote from One News from Minister Dunne stating: \u201CI am on the record as saying the Families Commission lost its way early on under Labour administrations that milk-sopped it into a politically correct institution.\u201D Where is Mr Dunne\u2019s work in this particular area? Why has he not stood up for the Families Commission? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWhat we are seeing here is that version No. 1 of the Families Commission did not work out, so we have another version that is focused and leaner\u2014so we have been told. We can only hope that this time round the Families Commission is carefully monitored on a regular basis to ensure that the output meets the needs. There is a definite limit as to how many versions of a Families Commission there can be before people lose their confidence in it absolutely and totally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EOne must wonder what the remaining staff of the Families Commission are actually going to do. What are they going to research? What are they going to advocate for? What sound evidence are they going to be able to produce? We believe that there is a limit on the amount of research that can be carried out. The select committee process around this is going to be very interesting. In New Zealand First we would like to see something that will be useful to New Zealand families for the money that is spent, and we are going to be carefully monitoring the outputs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbbffa946c444b9fb419cf9139ee5dae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbbffa946c444b9fb419cf9139ee5dae\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. E ng\u0101 mana, e ng\u0101 reo, e ng\u0101 hau e wh\u0101, e rau rangatira m\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. The Families Commission Amendment Bill proposes drastic changes that undermine the importance of families and diversity in New Zealand. Despite its overall mission of providing independent monitoring, evaluation of programmes, and intervention across the social sector, the bill makes little difference and gives less convincing proposals of how effective those programmes will be on New Zealand families. The Families Commission Amendment Bill hides behind New Zealand families by this proposal to downsize and reallocate funds. This is why New Zealand First opposes this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EThe Families Commission should be at the forefront of supporting New Zealand families through initiatives that seek to speak for the people, and not try to avoid any public backlash concerning the commissions that aim to speak for them. It is pertinent to mention the emphasis on how they may better reflect New Zealand families and provide positive remedial reform. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EI find it troubling that Peter Dunne can just cut his ties with the Families Commission, considering the fact that this was an initiative United Future supported and agreed to during its coalition with the Labour Party 8 years ago. His attitude and the ease with which he distanced himself from his initiative is indicative of how he wants to be at the forefront of positive initiatives in the early stages, but then takes a step back when they crumble. He should protect his 8-year-old project and aim to find more alternatives, instead of relying on National to sort out his mess. This handover inevitably loses the original substance and essence of the Families Commission. Its potential to make wide-ranging positive outcomes is limited through the proposed changes to the size and allocation of funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EThe Families Commission Amendment Bill aims to cut down seven commissioners to one\u2014no doubt that will be Carl Davidson. He will chair the board alongside the Government\u2019s Chief Science Advisor and four other appointees. From the outset, we can see that the board may be appointed with National Party mates, who may have little experiential similarity to constituents who live in low socio-economic areas. There needs to be a clear link from the bottom up. We cannot expect top-down solutions to trickle their way to the bottom and impact equally on all New Zealand families. There needs to be greater transparency, and also improved communicating of ideas more effectively to all stakeholders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First addresses the issues and themes that New Zealand families are confronted with. We have found this bill to contradict its label. We might as well convert the title of the commission to the \u201CElitist Commission\u201D, as it may benefit only a small few at the expense of many. The proposed changes send out a clear message to the public that despite the current hardships many New Zealanders\u2019 families face, the National Government is content with downsizing commissions that are not geared towards improving its livelihood, and that it does not mind cutting jobs in the process. I am sure Simon Bridges and his friend from Hamilton East, David Bennett, would be very familiar with this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E Not only does this contradict the importance of tackling barriers that prevent New Zealand families from living happy and dignified lives, it also undermines the National Government\u2019s optimistic desire to protect New Zealanders from losing their jobs. Maybe it wants to make Australia more desirable. Cutting down the sheer size of commissions illustrates the magnitude at which this Government is attentive to the social, political, and economic barriers that New Zealand families face and experience. This is the reason why New Zealand First strongly opposes this bill at this stage. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8d9fbbde2f74da28d05c66a7712401c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8d9fbbde2f74da28d05c66a7712401c\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E This bill, the Families Commission Amendment Bill, is another good example of the Government and its priorities, delivering on those better public services for New Zealanders. That is what New Zealanders expect of a responsible Government. That is why we are in Government and those members opposite are not. Long may that continue. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022c75387b6cf74427d8f005201e4972f47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c75387b6cf74427d8f005201e4972f47\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E I would actually like to give a 10-minute response to that 2-second speech we have just heard from the member opposite Mike Sabin. What we have had is a member stand up and say that this piece of fundamental legislation around families and children and how they are cared for in our society, the Families Commission Amendment Bill, is about Government priorities and better public services. We have heard a chorus of calls from the other side that Labour wants to scrap the Families Commission and that this is supposedly a bad thing. But, yes, it is Labour\u2019s ultimate aim to not have the Families Commission, because we want to see a real and genuine commitment to child-centred policy in this country. We want to see something meaningful, something beyond rearranging some deckchairs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe have done some very detailed and evidence-based policy work around how it is that we can best serve children in this country. The policy work that the Hon Annette King did prior to the last election that has been picked up by my colleague Jacinda Ardern in her role is exceptional work, and it actually provides a real way forward on how it is that we can better serve the children of this country. The bill that we have before us does not do this. None the less, Labour is supporting this bill\u2019s referral to a select committee, and we are supporting this bill\u2019s referral to a select committee because this is a conversation that needs to be had. We do need to have a real and genuine conversation about doing something real and about doing something meaningful to lift the standard for so many of the children and families in our country. That is why we will support it. Labour believes that families are important, and that families are a crucial part of our society and a crucial unit of our society. This is where children, the future of our country, get their best start in life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe National Party has never been a fan of the Families Commission. We have seen this all over the place. If we go back to 2008 and the stoush in the 2008 election campaign, we see that John Key had to backtrack on his off-the-cuff offer to scrap the Families Commission, because he was afraid of losing a coalition partner. It has always been a history of compromise in relation to the Families Commission. Mr Dunne was reported to be disappointed in 2008. Well, with one vote in the House now, we certainly cannot be seeing that. That would be what you would call a disappointed majority, and that would not be something that we would be doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENational has repeatedly criticised the commission since it was set up, and has continued to do so. In 2008, when John Key did his backtrack on his off-the-cuff offer to scrap the commission, he offered a shake-up\u2014a shake-up of the commission is what he described in 2008. Fast-forward to 2012, and in the legislation we are debating now we are having a rebalancing. Rebalancing is obviously the 2012 version of a shake-up. It shows what happens in a second term of Government, when you have been there for a while. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat are we seeing under this legislation? Let us dig down beneath the rhetoric of members opposite talking about\u2014well, actually, not talking about\u2014how important the Families Commission is. I mean, I think we are seeing the importance that the party opposite puts on this bill and puts on the Families Commission by its contribution to this debate. But what we really are seeing here is funding for the Families Commissioner being slashed\u2014and we are seeing the number of commissioners cut from seven to one\u2014but not with any real plan to replace it. There is no real plan for how it is that we are going to provide for the children of our country, and no real plan for how it is that we are going to guarantee that New Zealand children get the start in life that they deserve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EOf the $32.48 million of funding that the Families Commission receives over 4 years, the Government is going to rearrange the deckchairs with this money. It would use a minimum of $14.2 million over those 4 years to set up the new Social Policy Evaluation and Research Unit, which I will talk about in a while. My colleague Jacinda Ardern has talked extensively about the families status report that will be produced within this funding, and the reports that are currently there. We are seeing that a further $4 million over the 4 years will be redirected out of the Families Commission to fund the extra parenting and relationship education in schools of the Prime Minister\u2019s Youth Mental Health Programme. This is a rearranging of the deckchairs around supporting children, families, and young people in this country. It is not new funding, as it has been heralded; instead, it is reprioritisation for better public services, but without doing anything to fundamentally address the causes that are there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ELabour has a number of questions and concerns around this bill, which we want to see addressed when it goes to select committee. My colleagues Dr Rajen Prasad and Jacinda Ardern have already articulated many of those concerns and many of those questions. We really are concerned at the watering down\u2014or the gutting\u2014of the advocacy role of the Families Commissioner that we will see under this bill. What we are seeing is clause 5 amending section 7 of the principal Act, which is the section that currently provides that the commissioner\u2019s main function is \u201Cto act as an advocate for the interests of families generally.\u201D The new section retains this as a main function of the commission\u2014the advocacy function, that is\u2014but it adds a new function. So what we are seeing is that the commissioner is going to be asked to do more work with less resource. It simply will not be able to fulfil its advocacy function, which is prescribed under the current Act, if this new piece of legislation goes through. We are going to see its views on what is best for families and children in this country not being adequately advocated for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThis week is a fantastic week for us to be talking about the independent role of the Families Commissioner, with my colleague Sue Moroney\u2019s member\u2019s bill, the Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill, coming up for debate tomorrow. What we have here is a very good example of how it is that the Families Commissioner\u2019s role has been tinkered with. It has been shaken up and now it is being rebalanced, to use the current language, so that, instead of independent advice that is about advocating for the betterment of children and families in this country, we are seeing a commissioner who is increasingly asked to do the Government\u2019s bidding. It is not for the commissioner to take a political position on whether or not paid parental leave is affordable. That is a matter for the politicians. It is the role of the commissioner to provide advice and advocacy on the impact of policies on children and families. What we have seen is that the way in which National deals with the commissioner is going to be intensified under this legislation, and we will see less of an advocacy role out of the commissioner than we should be seeing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe also look at this new unit that is being set up to provide research advice. The bill sets up the Social Policy Evaluation and Research Unit within the commission, with a predetermined annual budget of $3.55 million. We have been told this is because National wants to provide us with evidence-based policies. That is something I commend. I think that is a great thing, but this capacity should have been used before. It theoretically exists within existing ministries and departments and should be there. In reality what we are seeing is a watering down of the advice that can be offered, and the kind of evidence base that we can get on policy. What we are going to see is a Families Commissioner who will be asked to do research into what the Government dictates, rather than issues that the commissioner sees as important for advocating the betterment of children and families. Poverty, literacy, paid parental leave, family violence\u2014these will not be choices that the commissioner can make, but instead will be directed by the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ECurrently what happens is that the commissioner uses a range of peer reviewers from a number of our universities and other research centres and independent researchers. Under this new piece of legislation that advice will be limited to four people. We have some very clever and talented social policy and social science academics in this country, but I cannot think of four of them who can provide advice right across the whole plethora. Labour has serious questions about this bill, and we need to see them answered at the select committee. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0141487e5a74621a0ae2ab5698bf309\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0141487e5a74621a0ae2ab5698bf309\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I am just wanting to support my colleagues and their very good speeches on this bill, the Families Commission Amendment Bill, and to draw attention to the Labour Party\u2019s not wishing to have a Families Commission. National is making the right adjustments to make sure the Families Commission is effective and delivers for New Zealanders going forward. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00222d49d93463714fcb8cbb0a47296a851f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d49d93463714fcb8cbb0a47296a851f\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Another split call\u20144-minute bell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u002297597d310eff49eabccec021ce322b58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297597d310eff49eabccec021ce322b58\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E E ng\u0101 mana, e ng\u0101 reo, e rau rangatira m\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. For many of you listening at home you might be wondering what need this Families Commission Amendment Bill is addressing. What need is this bill addressing? Well, actually, I can tell you that the need was in the confidence and supply agreement that National and United Future came up with. If you look at the actual quote from this coalition agreement: \u201CThe Families Commission will have two broad functions\u2014the existing functions will be headed by a single Commissioner,\u201D we should note that the position of that single commissioner, Carl Davidson, is very interesting, particularly on paid parental leave, given he is supposed to represent an organisation that is representing New Zealand families. The research is unqualified in its support for paid parental leave. We know that parents being able to stay home with their children not only benefits children but also actually benefits communities. It is at the heart of community and family resilience, which was actually one of the two primary roles of the Families Commission, and my colleague Dr Rajen Prasad, will know this well because he was the original Chief Families Commissioner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe commission was empowered to identify and have regard to factors that help to maintain or enhance families\u2019 resilience and families\u2019 strengths, so I find it incredible that we are discussing the change to a bill that will actually change the function of this institution, which has always been about being a voice for our families. It is going to change from becoming an autonomous Crown entity to, basically, a Crown agent. It will have to have give effect to Crown policy and in fact it says in the documentation in the bill that this bill adds these functions to assist in determining or achieving the Government\u2019s priorities in the social sector, to commission research on behalf of the Government and others, and to manage contracts for research in the social sector on behalf of the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI note the whole intention of the Families Commission in the early days, and I want to highlight one of the original commissioners, a woman called Carolynn Bull, who was a member of the M\u0101ori Women\u2019s Welfare League and represented \u014Ctautahi very well. She was very staunch in promoting not only to me but also to many people The Couch. For people who do not know what The Couch was within the Families Commission, it was actually a formal mechanism for families and people who were interested in issues related to families to have a formal say in what the needs and interests of our communities were. The Couch was set up to promote the interests of all families and promote a better understanding of family issues and needs amongst Government agencies and the wider community. That is the issue with this change in orientation\u2014interesting word\u2014of the Families Commission. What it is going to become is a Government voice. We do not need Government voices advocating for families. Actually, what we need is family voices advocating for families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EWhat the Government has done by reorienting this bill is justify why Labour, when we are in Government, will not have a Families Commission. We will get rid of the Families Commission and create a ministry for children. We will have a Minister for children who will advocate and speak on behalf of New Zealand families and New Zealand children, which is completely opposite to what these changes propose to do. So we, in this first reading, will let New Zealanders have a say, and we will support this bill\u2019s referral at first reading to the Social Services Committee. But people out there must know that we will be ensuring that your voices are captured in this debate, because the orientation of this new bill is going to ensure that New Zealand families do not have a say. The needs and interests of New Zealand children are not a priority for that Government, and we know this because child poverty is growing in this country. A bill that relates to paid parental leave should be something that the Families Commissioner is the champion of. That is not what is happening, and this bill will ensure that it does not. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022 data-id=\u0022070a5a935a6d48419928ac98953e7cdf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022070a5a935a6d48419928ac98953e7cdf\u0022\u003EHOLLY WALKER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Tuarua, ki ng\u0101 mema o t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Tuatoru mihi atu ki Te Wiki o Te Reo M\u0101ori, arohatia te reo rangatira. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Speaker of the House. Secondly, to the members of our House, greetings to you all. Thirdly, acknowledgments to M\u0101ori Language Week; cherish the chiefly language. Greetings to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EI am pleased to rise in the first reading of the Families Commission Amendment Bill to support my colleague Denise Roche in articulating the Green Party\u2019s position on the future of the Families Commission, K\u014Dmihana \u0101 Wh\u0101nau. The Green Party will be opposing this bill at the first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E We have an interesting history with the Families Commission, because we did, in fact, oppose its original creation in 2003. We saw it then as an unnecessary, additional bureaucracy created to meet the demands of a political agreement between the then Labour Government and United Future without meeting the urgent needs of New Zealand children and families. I think it is probably fair to say that the history of the Families Commission since then, in terms of its relationship to various coalition agreements, has continued on the same track. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EWe expressed at the time our concern about a lack of clarity in the role and function of the commission, and I guess in some ways that lack of clarity may have led now to this Government bill, which seeks to streamline and make more efficient the functions of the commission. However, we cannot support the changes outlined in this bill and we share many of the serious concerns outlined by the Labour members in this debate. For the Green Party, however, these concerns are significant enough for us to be voting against this bill at the first reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EI want to address the issue of research\u2014the quality of Government social research and the supposed need for a new families status report, which will now be produced annually if this bill is passed into law. I would like to echo the concerns that Jacinda Ardern raised earlier in the debate about the Social Report and Bryan Perry\u2019s excellent Household incomes in New Zealand report\u2014both very comprehensive, high-quality reports on the status of families and children across a range of social and economic indicators produced by the Ministry of Social Development. Where these were once released with some fanfare, they now appear unceremoniously on the Ministry of Social Development website once a year\u2014or, in the case of the Social Report, now only once every 3 years\u2014and I have significant concerns about the future of this important research when the work currently performed by the Centre for Social Research and Evaluation in the Ministry of Social Development is, under this bill, subsumed into the newly altered Families Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EI also question the additional value of a new families status report in addition to the existing research from the Ministry of Social Development and from a huge range of other organisations and academics that produced high-quality research on the well-being of children and families. I think I would probably speak for many thousands of New Zealanders when I say that I think we are getting sick of more and more reports telling us how bad things are for our children. We are impatient for genuine cross-party action to end child poverty and reduce inequality in New Zealand, and I do not see this bill as helping that agenda in any way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is also concerned about the restructuring of functions away from the Ministry of Social Development and towards the oversight of a new advisory panel in this bill. This, I think, is part of a trend that we are seeing towards ministerially appointed advisory groups dictating our social policy in New Zealand, and it is nothing to be celebrated. First, we had the Welfare Working Group, then we had the recently announced welfare reform board, and now we have a social science experts panel, and I have to question whether in fact there is a job for Paula Rebstock in this bill as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243725e124b6e4ee48f590aff072aafba\u0022\u003EHOLLY WALKER\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. When we broke for dinner I was talking about the trend towards ministerially appointed advisory groups such as the social science experts panel, which is established in this legislation. The Green Party is pretty concerned about this trend, and would question both the value for money of moving towards these highly paid panels, which are more akin, we would contest, to boards of directors than they are to appropriate social policy expertise, and the independence of a ministerially appointed panel such as this. Other parts of the bill cause us to question that independence, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EThe emphasis on advancing the Government position is very concerning. As we heard before from the member Jacinda Ardern, we think that is the wrong way round. Of particular concern is the amendment to section 13 of the Families Commission Act, which previously stated that the commission must maintain mechanisms to ensure it is at all times readily accessible to a wide range of views. This bill will amend this section so that it will apply only to its advocacy function and not the monitoring, evaluation, and research of key issues, programmes, and interventions. That lack of independence, that change, is very concerning to us, coupled with our concern about the future of high-quality research currently coming out of the centre for research at the Ministry of Social Development and, indeed, some longstanding concerns that we have had with the Families Commission, the direction of the current Government, and the lack of action on child poverty and inequality. We remain very concerned about this bill and we are very proudly voting against it at its first reading. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u00223a0cf6b53b724741ab12a75a1dfc4f89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a0cf6b53b724741ab12a75a1dfc4f89\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. I am delighted to take a call on the Families Commission Amendment Bill. I am only sorry I was not able to speak earlier in the debate, but a range of other commitments prevented that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI support this bill because what it does is take the Families Commission forward into its second decade, effectively. When we set it up back in 2004, this was groundbreaking territory. I want to acknowledge the work that the former Chief Families Commissioner Dr Prasad did in those early years. I note the constructive comments he made earlier in this debate. It is a great pity they are at variance with the comments made by the remainder of his colleagues, who, unlike Dr Prasad, do not see a future role for the commission; they want to abolish it. But, then, I should not be surprised, because as early as the launch of the White Ribbon campaign in 2004, just a few months after the commission had been established, Mr Maharey, the then Minister responsible, was talking to me about whether it should be abolished. So here was the Labour Party, which entered into a confidence and supply agreement with United Future in 2002 to establish the Families Commission, within 2 years starting the process that culminated in its policy position at the last election of trying to white-ant it. So its criticisms today really do not bear a great deal of credibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of very important provisions in this bill. The restructuring of the governance arrangements to provide for a single Families Commissioner, supported by a board, deals with one of the issues that has been problematic for the commission since its inception: the relationship between the commissioners, plural, and the staff of the secretariat. This change in this bill makes a very important statement and clarifies the relationship vis-\u00E0-vis the governance of the commission and the work it does as an advocate, as a policy adviser, and as a deliverer of a variety of different programmes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe second important thing this bill establishes, and I have heard some comment already this evening that I think is misplaced, is the institution of an annual state of the family report. This idea draws on work that the coalition Government in the United Kingdom has put in place in the last couple of years to provide for an annual reporting mechanism over a range of indicators about how well family performance is being monitored and policies are being implemented to give effect to those issues in the United Kingdom. I think for a long time it has been an issue that has been a missing link in New Zealand. If you go right back to the early 1990s, we passed the Fiscal Responsibility Bill, which put a lot of stringent requirements on Government in terms of reporting on its achievement of its fiscal objectives\u2014greater clarity and greater transparency around those. At that time we toyed briefly\u2014it was during the period of the National - United Future coalition Government in the mid-1990s\u2014with a social responsibility bill to get the Government to be required, on an annual basis, to report on how it was meeting its social obligations in parallel with the Fiscal Responsibility Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe relevance to this legislation is that the state of the families report is, in effect, the modern incarnation of that concept of reporting on the achievement of broad social responsibility objectives. So it is a welcome step. The commission is well-placed to deliver it. It still retains its statutory independence. It still retains that degree of distance from Government, but it is also part of the policy-making and advisory mix. What this bill does is position the Families Commission for its next decade. What this bill does is take the learnings of the first nearly 10 years, repackage those in a way that is fit for purpose in today\u2019s context, and set the commission forward with a new, more clear, and more straightforward mission as it approaches its next decade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EFinally, can I make the observation that consistently since 2004, around the world the Families Commission in New Zealand has been looked to as an example of a premier body, recognising and taking account of the interests of families in terms of the relationship to government. This legislation enhances that role.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI am very delighted to support it. I was proud to be able to negotiate with the Government, post-election, on the changes that have occurred, and I think they will be, overall, hugely beneficial for New Zealand families, and that is the ultimate test of this commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223bf1d3a148e1481bafda895886ba86a2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Families Commission Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 97\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 23\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 14; New Zealand First 8; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000454\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Social Services Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022796ba353353647ac830a271382253eba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022796ba353353647ac830a271382253eba\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Minister of Immigration) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for Social Development: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. I move, That the Social Services Committee report finally to the House by 27 November 2012.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222392162ab15649ca8d4354dc3e36a245\u0022\u003ECompanies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220994424f2d88424889cd6ff23255751a\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u00227cb0ff9677744bf19d9043ab2668a7e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227cb0ff9677744bf19d9043ab2668a7e6\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS (Minister of Commerce):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Companies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Commerce Committee to consider the bill. The Companies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill will strengthen the rules that apply to the governance, registration, and reconstruction of companies. New Zealand has an international reputation as one of the best and most trusted places in the world to do business. We have a high rating for the ease of registering a business. However, this has the potential to increase our vulnerability to overseas interests using New Zealand - registered shell companies to undertake criminal activity. I note that the corporate risk profiling team in the Companies Office has removed nearly 2,600 companies from the register since 2010, including companies that have been identified in the media in recent months. But we cannot remain complacent, and that is why this bill was introduced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe registration provisions in the bill are designed to reduce the potential for the misuse of New Zealand - registered companies and limited partnerships for overseas criminal activity. The provisions are limited in nature and relate only to the company and limited partnership registration process. The bill aims to strike a balance between deterring the activities that threaten the integrity of New Zealand\u2019s company registration system and maintaining ease of business for New Zealand companies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe measures in the bill form part of the Government\u2019s wider approach to strengthening New Zealand\u2019s resistance to organised crime. They are linked to other work aimed at deterring money-laundering and making it easier for New Zealand law enforcement agencies to find the ultimate owners of companies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe bill introduces a requirement for every registered company to have either a director or a resident agent who lives in New Zealand or in an approved jurisdiction. It is proposed that Australia be described as an approved jurisdiction, as regulatory criminal fines can be enforced in that country through the Agreement between the Government of New Zealand and the Government of Australia on Trans-Tasman Court Proceedings and Regulatory Enforcement. The resident agent must be a natural person and must otherwise meet the qualifications of being a director. The resident agent is liable if the company does not carry out certain administrative responsibilities, including the filing of documents with the Registrar of Companies and the maintenance of company records. The role of the resident agent is essentially administrative and not that of a de facto director. The provisions make clear that the resident agent is not responsible for the content of any document where there has been a breach of the Act unless they had knowledge that the content of the document was incorrect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EIn addition, the bill gives the Registrar of Companies enhanced powers to investigate, respond to, or remedy non-compliance with the Companies Act, and to take effective administrative action against companies and directors that do not respond to his requests. These provisions apply to all companies and not simply to those that require a resident agent. I would particularly welcome the select committee\u2019s views on these matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe bill aligns the rules applying to limited partnerships with those applying to companies. This is to ensure that persons misusing New Zealand companies cannot avoid the new regime by registering limited partnerships instead. The changes to the Limited Partnerships Act made through this bill are to introduce qualifications for general partners\u2014those responsible for the management of the limited partnership\u2014while also requiring a resident agent where the general partner has no connection to New Zealand, to give greater scope for the registrar to deregister limited partnerships that do not comply with the Limited Partnerships Act, and to introduce grounds for banning persons from acting as general partners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe next major feature of the bill is to better align the Companies Act with the Takeovers Code. This is to ensure that shareholders understand the effect that changes in companies\u2019 control will have on the value of their shares. The Companies Act includes reconstruction provisions, which set out procedures to be followed when two or more companies want to amalgamate into one, or a company wants to come into an arrangement with shareholders as to a change of control. The proposed changes address a loophole that enables companies to which the Takeovers Code applies to take over another company using the reconstruction provisions of the Companies Act rather than using the Takeovers Code. This means that takeovers can be undertaken with less information provided to shareholders and with a lower level of shareholder participation or support. Where there is an amalgamation involving a company that is subject to the code, this can also mean a lower level of regulatory oversight by the court or the Takeovers Panel. The Takeovers Panel expressed concern about this and recommended to the former Minister of Commerce that this loophole needed to be closed. For this reason the use of amalgamations that do not require the approval of the court will be prohibited where one of the amalgamating companies is subject to the code. In circumstances where a reconstruction arrangement must be approved by the court, the court must be satisfied that shareholders of the company would not be adversely affected by the transaction being undertaken under the Companies Act rather than the Takeovers Code, or the applicant must have filed a statement from the Takeovers Panel indicating that the panel has no objection to the scheme being approved by the court. The amendments ensure that processes under the Companies Act are consistent with the procedures for changing control of companies under the Takeovers Code. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe final set of reforms in the bill is the introduction of criminal offences for directors who commit serious breaches of two duties under the Companies Act. The relevant duties are to act in good faith and in the best interest of the company, and to not carry on business in a way that risks serious loss to the company\u2019s creditors. These reforms recognise that substantial harm can result when directors breach the duties they owe, as was evident from a number of finance company collapses where the investors lost much of their savings. They are in addition to the civil remedies that are already available to the company and its shareholders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThese provisions give public enforcement agencies, the Registrar of Companies, and the Financial Markets Authority the role of taking action in the public interest. I am mindful that some submitters on this proposal were concerned that adding this criminal liability would deter people from taking up directorships. The offences will require the prosecution to prove that the director knew that their behaviour would be seriously detrimental to the interests of the company or would result in serious loss to the company\u2019s creditors, depending on the particular breach of duty. This is a high threshold aimed at serious misconduct and would not catch an inadvertent act or omission by a director. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, it is essential that New Zealand remains a trusted and well-regulated place to do business. The changes in the bill to our registration, reconstruction, and governance rules aim to increase the confidence in New Zealand\u2019s financial markets and its regulation of corporate forms. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00221123c67fd1f541d183f3e5b881a2ec94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221123c67fd1f541d183f3e5b881a2ec94\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I can say from the outset that the Labour Party will support this Companies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill, at the very least at the first reading. Obviously, we will want to see the details as to how this bill progresses. We all agree that New Zealand has an international reputation as a trusted place to do business, and we all agree that that reputation should be protected and enhanced at all costs. I note that the World Bank and the International Finance Corporation have ranked New Zealand the easiest of 183 countries in which to start a business, and Transparency International ranks New Zealand the least corrupt country of the 183 surveyed. That is a tribute to our business people and our regulatory agencies in policing the laws and regulations of our land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EHowever, it has to be said that lately attention has been drawn, both domestically and internationally in respect of the media, to overseas interests exploiting New Zealand\u2019s incorporation processes by using New Zealand - registered shell companies to undertake illegal activities. In fact, I am advised that a New Zealand - registered company was used to run a $25 million Ponzi scheme. I know that the National Party is very fond of that term in recent days, given that it has some relevance to other matters before the House. But that Ponzi scheme was run by an American chief executive and owner who is now facing up to 15\u00BD years in a United States jail after pleading guilty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo the question arises: this is sound in principle, and this is a sound piece of legislation, yet the Government has taken some time to process and have this bill introduced in Parliament. My recollection is that this was unfinished business by the previous Minister of Commerce, the Hon Simon Power. Yet, despite the threats to New Zealand\u2019s reputation, the reputational risks that we face as a result of some of this nefarious activity in terms of exploiting New Zealand\u2019s incorporation law, this bill has sort of languished. One wonders\u2014and we will be asking him in the Committee stage\u2014what priority the Minister of Commerce has given or is giving to the reputational risk management process for New Zealand, given that this bill has languished for months after being introduced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI would have thought, and I do echo and agree with the Minister\u2019s words, that New Zealand\u2019s business and commercial reputation is paramount. The question then arises, as \u201CThe Maestro\u201D sort of grins across the Chamber at us\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220783b02062eb4441b349d3fb383b9ecd\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: 17 grand. He would have rushed it into the member\u2019s ballot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022720ee084b682466eafb4d7c4d5f744ef\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, who is it going to be? Which declaration would we like to start with first on that one, team? Would we like to start with Mr Foss, or \u201CThe Maestro\u201D, or Mr Young, or any of them? I am very happy to have this debate\u2014very happy to have this debate\u2014anywhere, anytime, inside or outside this Chamber. And then we will see\u2014then we will see. So which hen over there, which rooster over there, is going to have their head cut off, because if that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268fc8db03713487a8b6f728773fde2ff\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac58aa829aff41b0a79fe724c75b7f01\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Brownlee\u2014because if that member wants to start it, I will finish it. But getting back to more serious matters\u2014and the Minister might look at the conduct of some of his own colleagues. But if you want to start it, I will finish it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say that this bill has languished\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207cae4ec438e45c3bc8911e741aee84e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Come on. If you\u2019re going to tell us to step outside the House next.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250af6590810442bdb93527be38ff20d7\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I will not need to. I will just ante up with some paperwork on you\u2014not you, Mr Deputy Speaker, that one over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022550cee8cc7cf484c886bdfb15d24df5f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re all talk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8f3719dabbe40bbb0c241b965c1f495\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh yes, talk and actions, mate. Roll the dice. So I say that the question before this House is why this legislation has languished for so long. Obviously, the smoke signals that \u201CThe Maestro\u201D is putting up\u2014because we all know he likes a cigar occasionally\u2014show that he wants to divert some attention away from a serious piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn fact, what I found astounding doing the research on this bill was that\u2014given the lack of priority that was given to this\u2014earlier this year, which the Minister did not mention, New Zealand, along with Russia, was struck off the prestigious European Union banking and corporate white list over this country\u2019s weak money-laundering and terrorism financial controls. I was the Associate Minister of Justice when Labour introduced and put through the anti - money-laundering legislation, as required through our international obligations. Because this Government has been introverted and self-obsessed with its own crises and its own mess-ups\u2014whether they be asset sales or a whole raft of other things, ACC, the list goes on\u2014New Zealand\u2019s reputation has been damaged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe have been removed from that white list. I know that Mr McClay, who I believe worked for the European Union or some of its agencies in a previous lifetime, will know very well the value of that institution and the value of being on the white list. We were struck off, and what that means is that banks and institutions in the EU \u201Cwill not be entitled any more to make simplified research for banks and financial institutions registered in New Zealand\u201D. And it also means, as I am sure Mr McClay is aware\u2014and he might want to proffer some advice to his Minister\u2014that European institutions can no longer accept and acknowledge customer identification and analysis performed in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI recall the anti - money-laundering legislation very well. We got all the banks in and the financial institutions, because we were at pains to come up with a scheme of arrangement\u2014given that we were obliged to put this legislation and these rules in place\u2014that was appropriate, and at an appropriate level. It was not Rolls-Royce, it was not gilt-edged, but it allowed the financial processes to go through, and it also preserved and enhanced our reputation as a country engaging in international commerce. Because this bill has languished and nothing has been done about it, we are off the white list. We are off the white list because this Minister and his Government do not see this as a priority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EHowever, I had a phone call last week from a venerable journalist of the National Business Review, who was at pains to ask me and other colleagues about where this issue was at, when this anti - shell company legislation was going to come back into Parliament, and noted that it had languished for so long. Then, hey presto, an article appears in the National Business Review, and, my word, here we are today on Tuesday night at 5 to 8 in Parliament, the Minister\u2019s feet have been put to the fire by the media, and we are processing the bill. Well, I want to thank that journalist. I want to thank him from the bottom of my heart, as do the business people and commercial entrepreneurs around this country, for attempting to call this Minister and his Government to account, and to ask the question as to when this legislation would ever see the light of day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThis is important. Any legislation, regulation, or scheme of arrangement that preserves our transparency, preserves our reputation as incorruptible, and keeps us right at the top of the rankings of transparency internationally and those other international watchdogs is vital, in terms of easing business and allowing our companies overseas to do deals, and allowing overseas companies in New Zealand to have confidence that they can come here and trust in our institutions. So I have a question for the Government and the Government members when they stand up to take a call\u2014and I am sure Mr Coleman, being the vocal sort of fellow he is, will be rushing to jump up on the shoe leather and advance arguments in respect of this. What I would like him and his colleagues to tell us is why it has taken so long. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI recall Simon Power\u2014and I have got to say, he was a pretty diligent Minister of Commerce; fair go. We disagreed on a few things around the edges in the justice portfolio, but a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7349a8bc98f40f1be33e9790e78db1c\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: He had a brain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d571a43db4044da790c33b3b7d83a01e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: My colleague said he had a few brains\u2014absolutely, more than a few. He now resides, I think, in the biggest or second-biggest financial institution in New Zealand. He put this up. He started, you know, kicking the ball. The ball started rolling, and then there was an election and he shuffled off to a different life, and this Minister was put in charge of this. So I want an answer from the Minister and his colleagues as to why this has taken so long to get on the Order Paper, and get before Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe bill, as we know, requires each company to register in New Zealand and to have a registered agent if there is no director living in New Zealand or in an approved jurisdiction. This is important because it provides a modicum of accountability within this country. We know that registered agents will be responsible for ensuring that companies provide accurate information to the Registrar of Companies, and will be liable if companies breach their record-keeping and filing requirements under the Companies Act. This bill gives new powers to the Registrar of Companies to investigate and deal with non-compliance with the Companies Act, and this includes, of course, the power to flag companies on the register that are under investigation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThese are actually critical provisions, because, again, it is a form of accountability. I mean no slur to New Zealand companies, but we do know that New Zealand has been preyed upon, given the Ponzi scheme out of the United States, and given other alleged nefarious activity by those who simply want to use our good name, use the good name and reputation of our country and commercial enterprises to engage in those nefarious and criminal activities. It is incumbent upon this House to ensure that this legislation\u2014which I am pretty sure will have basic bipartisan support, although we will be seeking detail, obviously, because we agree in principle with it. But it is incumbent upon this Parliament to take whatever measure is necessary to ensure that our reputation as a country is managed well and protected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say again to the Minister that we will be very interested in getting reports. I invite him, in the advice that he and his officials provide to the Commerce Committee, to tell us up front why it took so long. That is important. If this is a precedent, and if it has taken so long and we are off the white list in the European Union, then that is a problem, and that is a black mark against our name. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022e601e65873364206b5884172f32f8229\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e601e65873364206b5884172f32f8229\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to stand in support of the Companies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill, which is sponsored by the Minister of Commerce, Craig Foss. The Companies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill is outlined in National\u2019s 120-point Economic Development Action Plan and the commerce election policy, and falls under one of the Government\u2019s four priorities this term, which is to build a more competitive and a productive economy. National is focused as a party on boosting growth, and this is another important step along that way. This bill seeks to strengthen rules applying to the governance, registration, and reorganisation of companies and limited partnerships. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ENew Zealand does have a good international reputation as one of the best and most trusted places in the world to do business. It is quite surprising that after the introduction\u2014the previous speaker, Clayton Cosgrove, mentioned it\u2014of his anti - money-laundering bill, we were taken off the white list. Obviously, this work needs to continue in order to shore up our reputation, which we are doing. Our reputation does stand under threat from overseas interests using New Zealand - registered shell companies to undertake criminal activity. One recent case was a company called S P Trading Ltd, a New Zealand - incorporated company controlled from overseas, which was involved in chartering a plane, later used in weapons trafficking, in contravention of United Nations sanctions. It was reported by the Stuff website that a former fast-food worker: \u201Cwas the sole director of Queen St registered SP Trading Ltd, a company that hired a plane discovered at Bangkok airport [in December 2009] flying 25 tonnes of arms from North Korea to an unknown destination, believed to be Iran. [The person] pleaded guilty to 74 charges of giving false residential information to the Companies Office, which registered multiple companies with [this person] as a director.\u201D Such cases where foreign-controlled New Zealand companies are engaging in criminal activities are likely to seriously impact New Zealand\u2019s international standing. These things happen, and we must close the hole in the net by which these things do occur. Fish will always swim through the hole in the net, and if our commerce laws have holes in them, they will attract all sorts of unsavoury species who would seek to take advantage of the opportunities that can be exploited. It is imperative that we discover these vulnerabilities, and we close them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker talked about the World Bank\u2019s report on the ease of starting a business in New Zealand\u2014it being the easiest jurisdiction in the world. That is due to the ability of an overseas person or a person resident in New Zealand being able to register a company here via the internet. If the person is overseas they can do that, with no apparent intention of operating in New Zealand. It creates an acceptable shop front to an unacceptable backroom criminal activity, as we saw in that previous case. We know that the Companies Office has already been responsive to this situation, to this vulnerability that we find, in closing down this anomaly. It has already, as the Minister of Commerce mentioned, removed nearly 2,600 at-risk companies from the register since 2010 when these matters were discovered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe measures in this bill are linked to other work aimed at deterring money-laundering and making it easier for New Zealand\u2019s law-enforcement agencies to find out the ultimate owners of companies. This bill will aid in stamping out this kind of behaviour and help ensure New Zealand remains a trusted place to do business. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002282370f69dd634bda99b6665bf430aebb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282370f69dd634bda99b6665bf430aebb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Party will be supporting this bill, the Companies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill, going to the select committee, as the Hon Clayton Cosgrove has already indicated. I want to start by saying, in response to the comment that was made by the last speaker on behalf of National, Jonathan Young, that this matter came to the knowledge of authorities in 2010. Those were his words, and I will take him at his word on that. In 2012, 2 years later, we are considering the first reading of this bill and the question has to be asked why it is, after 2 years of knowledge of serious fraud being committed around the world, in a way that besmirches New Zealand\u2019s reputation and therefore imposes long-term costs on the New Zealand economy for our businesses, whose ease of doing business in offshore jurisdictions has been undermined by these instances of fraud, that the Government has taken 2 years to get this bill, from 2010 to 2012, into a first reading in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe know that New Zealand has a long-standing reputation, which has taken approximately two centuries to cement in place, as being one of the least corrupt countries in the world. We know, because we are very good at using information technology to reduce business compliance costs in New Zealand, that New Zealand is an easy place in which to form companies, and we have known for some years now that some people have been taking advantage of that ease of setting up a company, and of the lack of checks and balances as to whether people are telling the truth when they are filing the documents that are filed via the internet when they form a new company, yet we have had such a lax approach by this Government that it has taken 2 years from the date when these problems became evident in 2010 for it to take some legislative step to bring about a remedy and protect New Zealand\u2019s reputation overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhat have been the consequences of that in the meantime? Well, New Zealand has already been taken off a low-compliance white list in some overseas jurisdictions. Until we were struck off this white list in Europe, the European banking system was able to rely upon documentation originating from New Zealand as evidence that the entity was non-corrupt. They could take these things at face value because New Zealand had a reputation for properly policing our system and pushing against corruption, which is one of the reasons why, until now, we have been seen by Transparency International as one of the least corrupt countries in the world. But because of the lack of speed, the lack of alacrity, with which we responded to these problems that were being experienced, we have been struck off that white list, which means that the banks and the other institutions in the European Union are no longer entitled to carry out a simplified level of research, and they cannot accept and acknowledge customer identification and corporate identification at face value now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThat is of detriment to every New Zealand company that operates in Europe and has dealings with these European financial institutions that now have to be satisfied with more information being provided by the New Zealand corporate, which no doubt increases their compliance costs as a consequence of this problem not being remedied earlier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe bill not only has restrictions on the registration of companies but enhances the registrar\u2019s ability to investigate allegations of ill-dealing and deregistration powers for companies and, as the Minister rightly said, limited partnerships, which, if they were not covered, could be used as substitute incorporated structures. There are some preconditions that are set out in the bill. Obviously the registrar has to have reasonable grounds before they exercise these powers, otherwise we could be creating other injustices. Or if the registrar writes to the companies concerned and does not get a response from these companies because, using the example that Jonathan Young referred to, where there was a front of a Queen Street address where someone in the fast-food industry had registered companies on behalf of somebody else, it is likely that if there were queries put to that person by the Registrar of Companies they would not get an adequate response, or, in fact, they might get no response because the address might be fictitious or old, in respect of those instances where the registrar does not get a response or does not get other information to confirm the correctness of information that might have been provided, then there is a discretion for the registrar to strike those companies off. Indeed, even before striking them off, my understanding is that the bill confers some powers to put warnings on the register so that if someone is accessing those registers via the internet\u2014and that could be someone in New Zealand, but it could also be someone who is having business dealings with them in an offshore jurisdiction\u2014that person could see that the registrar of the New Zealand Companies Office had some concerns and they might have cause to doubt whether they should take the information at face value or look a bit further. That will improve New Zealand\u2019s standing in the international community and therefore make it easier for New Zealand to protect its reputation and for our legitimate corporates to go about their business, because we will be taking a step to protect their legitimacy and the trustworthiness with which they are viewed by people overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere are also other amendments, which are unrelated to this aspect, that relate to takeovers and amalgamations. Currently there is a route under the Companies Act 1993 that enables schemes of arrangement, including amalgamations or compromises that act a wee bit like mergers, to go outside the rules that relate to the Takeovers Code. So the protections that lie, for example, with minority shareholders, or requiring a certain level of shareholder support before a takeover can be put into effect under the Takeovers Code, have had this alternative route under the Companies Act, which they have been able to utilise in a way that avoids the Takeovers Code. This legislation makes changes to ensure that shareholders of the companies that are meant to be covered by the Takeovers Code cannot be disadvantaged by the company affected making the same changes under an alternative route under the Companies Act, as opposed to under the Takeovers Code. There is a prohibition introduced on code companies using long-form amalgamations under the Companies Act. They will have to do that\u2014if my understanding is correct\u2014through the Takeovers Code rather than under the Companies Act. There are also changes to the voting thresholds that are required in respect of schemes of arrangement, amalgamations, and compromises under Part 14 of the Companies Act. There is a mechanism to seek a ruling, a no objection statement, from the Takeovers Panel\u2014it may be of assistance to the parties, if they are going through a court-related process, to gain some tick-off, if you like, from the Takeovers Panel that it does not have an objection to what is proposed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe other change made by the bill that we are supportive of is the criminalisation of certain breaches of directors\u2019 duties. There has been some terrible conduct on the part of some finance company directors that has been exposed since the global financial crisis caused a clean-out of finance companies. Not all of those finance companies were being improperly governed, but some were. Some of the finance companies failed in what has been the greatest recession around the world since the Great Depression, and you would expect, following a recession like this, that there would be some finance companies that would fail and that some people would lose some money. Certainly, on this side of the House we are not saying that in finance companies there ought not to be some level of risk that could come to pass that causes people a loss\u2014we do not go that far. But where directors are so errant in their responsibilities that they recklessly pursue a course of conduct that they know will put investors at risk in a way that is not properly disclosed to investors, that is criminal\u2014especially where they are profiting themselves personally, or where through related parties like family trusts they are profiting. The greatest ill-gotten gains in that regard in recent years in New Zealand were probably by Mr Petricevic, who has met some criminal penalties but who has not met criminal penalties for these sorts of breaches of duties, where he probably should have faced legal risk in respect of them. This bill criminalises some of these more serious offences by introducing a term of imprisonment of up to 5 years or a fine of $200,000, and in the worst of these cases that is absolutely appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u002232d0dfa88e9943f7a2b717344b4db722\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232d0dfa88e9943f7a2b717344b4db722\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on behalf of the Green Party on the Companies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill. The Green Party will be supporting this bill. This bill, I think, demonstrates, in a way that perhaps few others do, the poor economic management of the Government. This is a problem in the New Zealand economy\u2014the problem with regard to the lax law around company registrations. This has been a problem in New Zealand for a number of years, and it has resulted in many New Zealand - registered companies being engaged in very large-scale tax-laundering and fraud, internationally. The New Zealand Government has been aware of this problem for some time. In fact, under written questions that I put in 2011, the then Minister of Commerce, Simon Power, said that Cabinet had agreed to the proposals to fix this up on 28 July 2010. So nearly 2 years ago to the day when Cabinet finally managed to get around to agreeing to do something to fix this major problem, which is damaging New Zealand\u2019s international reputation, the bill finally appears in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E However, in the meantime\u2014remember, the Cabinet decision was on 28 July 2010\u2014in 2011 the Green Party got a bit bored waiting for the Government to do anything about it, and started asking a lot of questions about it and raising the issue in the media. We were concerned about the damage that was happening to New Zealand\u2019s international reputation as a result of our very poor company registration process, and we made the offer to the Government at the time that we would support legislation in order to make urgent reforms to company law, reforms that were urgently needed back then in 2011. But the Government still did absolutely nothing. It sat on its hands. It was drafting a bill. There was nothing in front of this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EAnd then on 8 February this year finally the EU had enough of New Zealand. The European Union decided that it was time to remove New Zealand from the European Union white list\u2014along with Russia because it was so corrupt\u2014because our laws around company registration are so terrible and so weak, and so many New Zealand companies are being used in international fraud. So on 8 February 2012 New Zealand was removed from the EU white list, and now in July 2012 we finally have the bill before Parliament on which the decision was made nearly 2 years ago. If the Government had followed the Green Party advice in September last year and actually introduced the legislation that we told it to introduce, to tighten up the rules around the registration of companies in New Zealand, New Zealand would not have been removed from the EU white list. If the Government had not had all sorts of other priorities\u2014mining or whatever\u2014and if it had actually focused on making sure that legitimate New Zealand businesses were operating under a proper regulatory framework around the registration of companies, then New Zealand businesses would not now be facing the increased cost that this Government has imposed on them because of New Zealand\u2019s removal from the EU white list. No doubt many other regulatory agencies all around the world are now watching New Zealand companies with distrust, because so many New Zealand companies have been involved in fraud and money-laundering\u2014companies that are registered in New Zealand but, in fact, have overseas controllers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EAt that time we told the Government that it needed to change the rules, and the Government did nothing. The Government sat on its hands. As a result, it has now imposed a whole new layer of cost and regulatory burden on New Zealand companies that are trying to operate internationally, because it refused to introduce the rules that were needed back then to tighten up the registration around New Zealand companies. The problem was\u2014and the problem still is until this law gets changed\u2014that basically a person can register a company in New Zealand, but there is no requirement for that person to have a New Zealand - resident administrative agent. What this bill does is begin the process of making sure that the registration of companies in New Zealand meets the bare minimum of good practice internationally. And the fact that the Government has delayed this bill for so long\u20142 years after Cabinet made the decision\u2014has imposed more costs on New Zealand business as a result of its inaction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe other part of the bill\u2014aside from requiring a New Zealand - resident administrative agent for companies and limited partnerships\u2014will enhance the Registrar of Companies\u2019 power to regulate companies and limited partnerships, and it will criminalise some breaches of directors\u2019 duties. What this bill does is start to improve the process of registration of New Zealand companies so that it is harder to register hundreds and hundreds of companies in New Zealand, and so that someone cannot just pick any particular residential address they like but have the company controlled from overseas and then used in international criminal activities, which many New Zealand - based companies have been used for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EHowever, even though the Government has sat on its hands for years, and even though it knew of the problem and was told of the problem\u2014the Green Party told the Government what was going on\u2014it did nothing to fix the problem and so has imposed more costs on New Zealand business. So much for all the Government\u2019s rhetoric about decreasing cost. It does not regulate properly; it adds cost to business. This bill, even now it has come in, is still quite weak. It falls short of best practice. This bill does not require registered companies to obtain Inland Revenue Department numbers. This bill does not address the problems around nominee directors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWithout addressing these problems, it is still an improvement\u2014no question about it\u2014and for that reason we will be supporting this bill. However, it still does not go far enough in terms of international best practice. If we want New Zealand companies to be viewed as credible organisations internationally, we need a regulatory framework in New Zealand that makes sure that we have best practice in New Zealand, and that companies in New Zealand cannot be easily used to engage in international fraud and criminal activity. That is what has been happening in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWe have had over 2,000 companies taken off the companies register because they are probably engaged in illegal activities. No doubt it is a greatly larger number than that. Certainly, in his responses to the questions that we put to Simon Power in 2011, he said that it was hard to actually know how many New Zealand companies were engaged in this kind of illegal activity internationally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWhen we put these kinds of proposals to the National Party, the National Party says: \u201COh, that\u2019s the nanny State.\u201D They go: \u201COh, you can\u2019t have proper regulation of companies; that\u2019s the nanny State.\u201D They go: \u201COh, you wouldn\u2019t want to do that; it restricts business.\u201D Actually, it is the exact opposite. By having a proper regulatory framework around the registration of companies in New Zealand, we facilitate New Zealand businesses doing their work internationally. So the fact that National has sat on its hands because of its anti-regulatory, knee-jerk reaction to any proper regulatory framework has meant that New Zealand\u2019s international reputation has already been damaged, because so many New Zealand - registered companies have been involved in very large-scale fraud, corruption, and money-laundering. It means that New Zealand has been taken off the EU white list\u2014thank you very much, Mr Foss and Mr Power, for slowing down this process so much that we have been taken off the EU white list, causing more cost for New Zealand companies. It means that it is harder for businesses in New Zealand to do international business. No longer do others look at New Zealand business and go: \u201CWell, New Zealand businesses are the best in the world\u2014high quality, no corruption.\u201D Instead, they go: \u201COh, New Zealand businesses have been involved in many very prominent international fraud and criminal money-laundering cases all over the world.\u201D And that is why we have been taken off the EU white list. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ESo, yes, we will be supporting this bill. It is way too late\u2014it is 2 years too late, possibly more. The Government had ample opportunity to progress this bill before. We offered the political support to get it through the House. We put pressure on the Government, as did others in the media, over a very long period to try to get this law in place. But because the Government took so long, our reputation has been damaged and we have been taken off the EU white list. We urgently need to fix the law around the registration of companies, and I hope that when this bill goes through the Commerce Committee, we will improve it further. And I hope the Government does not drag the chain at the select committee as much as it dragged the chain between now and when Cabinet made the decision\u2014nearly 2 years ago, on 28 July 2010\u2014to fix this thing. Yet tonight is the first time we have seen this bill in front of the House. So when the Government says: \u201COh, we\u2019re all pro-business\u201D, it is not really\u2014it is not really. It just has a knee-jerk, anti-regulatory response, and the effect of that sometimes is that it makes it very difficult for businesses to operate internationally, and adds more costs to them. We need a good regulatory framework around the way business operates, so that New Zealand businesses can go into the world and people know that our domestic regulatory framework stops the kind of corruption, money-laundering, and criminal activity that we have seen out of New Zealand - registered companies that are being operated by overseas criminal syndicates. We will be supporting this bill to go to the select committee; we hope it improves. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u0022c25d7ff7e71e4b5d9c47d3a7c099108e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c25d7ff7e71e4b5d9c47d3a7c099108e\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Sat sri akaal and t\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on the first reading of the Companies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill. The Companies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill falls under the National-led Government\u2019s priority for this term to build a more competitive and productive economy. This legislation is required because, at the moment, some overseas interests use New Zealand - registered shell companies to undertake criminal activities. The Companies Office has been acting vigilantly and has already removed a number of companies from its register.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the bill is to strengthen rules applying to the governance, registration, and reorganisation of companies and limited partnerships in a bid to eliminate this kind of behaviour. Of course, the larger aim is to protect New Zealand\u2019s interest and to ensure it remains a trusted place to conduct business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe bill will promote investors\u2019 confidence and participation in our capital market. I personally believe that the Minister of Commerce, the Hon Craig Foss, has done very well in maintaining a balance between tackling action that threatens the integrity of our company registration system and maintaining ease of business for New Zealand companies. I congratulate the Minister on this and commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u002240a643a587f045e7ae9660d4a2021890\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240a643a587f045e7ae9660d4a2021890\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I take a call on behalf of New Zealand First in the first reading of the Companies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill. I also note that this is the first reading, and we, similarly, have the concerns mentioned by some of the other Opposition parties that this bill has taken 2 years to get to this House for its first reading, while many other bills have been pushed through under urgency by this Government in order to follow its agenda of selling State assets, pushing through social welfare reforms, and other such things. As something that does assist the New Zealand economy, does tighten up the laws in terms of the way companies act onshore and offshore in relation to New Zealand commerce, and has unanimity across this House, across all parties, to support it, it is somewhat concerning that this Government has sat on its hands for 2 years and done very little since the days of the Hon Simon Power taking it to Cabinet back on 28 July 2010.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EIt is disappointing too that this bill is seen suddenly as being able to be pushed up to the top of the list, while bills that, for instance, a month or so ago were in the name of the Hon John Banks, such as the Trade (Safeguard) Measures Bill and also the Regulatory Reform (Repeals) Bill, which were right at the top of the list and being considered, mysteriously disappeared off the list around about the same time as the inquiry by the police commenced in terms of the mayoral electoral returns for the Auckland mayoral race. So it is somewhat disappointing that this Government chooses to operate in this manner in that suddenly bills disappear off the list that were previously being considered\u2014because of other agenda reasons, it chooses to take them off the list and remove Ministers from being in the firing line or in the debating chamber to respond to such things\u2014while others, because of, obviously, media attention, such as that given to this one in the last week in the National Business Review, suddenly rise to the top.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E However, it is at the top and we are very pleased that it has now finally surfaced. It is particularly pleasing that it has surfaced in the 19th birthday year of New Zealand First. How appropriate that it does come to the fore. We will support it as a party, as we did, all those years ago back in 1994, the wine-box inquiry into corruption and incompetence in those days. You can imagine how pleased our party is. It has always been the party that has championed and pushed for investigation into corrupt and incompetent practices in commerce, and we are very pleased to see that this bill has now seen the light of day, 2 years after it first went to Cabinet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EIt is disappointing to hear that we have been dropped off the EU white list, along with that other vanguard of good commercial practice, Russia. New Zealand is now linked in the same boat as Russia, having been dropped off the EU list, and it is concerning that our country comes to that point with our very good friends in the European Union. We would hope that this bill can be moved through very quickly so that we can perhaps once again get back on to that auspicious list, to ensure that, as a result, New Zealand is not held in lower regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EBasically, there are some very good points in this bill in that it does require a New Zealand resident administrative agent to be living in this country. So it will take away the risk where, up until now, companies have been able to register from offshore in New Zealand, and, basically, there is no one residing here. Therefore, as we have heard in the House tonight, activities have been able to occur through \u201Cwindow\u201D companies and shell companies. It is a very good move to close that loophole down. It also means that at least one person must live here who is legally responsible for the entity\u2019s administrative affairs, and therefore there is somebody answerable in this country for what is going on within the particular company or organisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThe bill also gives the power to warn the public about suspect entities by a note in the register. Again, this is a good move. These enhanced powers of the registrar allow the public to be warned about things in the register. This is a good thing and it alerts unsuspecting people in New Zealand and internationally to, perhaps, some of the goings-on within organisations and companies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EI also like the fact that, in terms of the criminalisation of breaches of certain directors\u2019 duties, the bill does now allow for imprisonment not exceeding 5 years, or a fine not exceeding $200,000. Again, that is a good direction in terms of sending the right message out there that if people are going to break the laws of New Zealand in relation to the Companies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill, when it becomes an Act, they could face up to 5 years\u2019 imprisonment as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EAlso, it is interesting that this bill basically tidies up a lot of other administrative errors in terms of some of the commerce things to do with the Limited Partnerships Act, and other, similar Acts to do with commerce and other commercial Acts. Therefore, really it is very much also an administrative bill to close some of the loopholes, to tidy up some of the red tape around some of the commercial activities, and to ensure that the Companies Office and the registrar\u2019s office are able to act according to these prescribed laws in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003ESo New Zealand First is happy to support the bill. It has got the support of all the parties across the House that we have heard from tonight, which is very pleasing. We commend the Minister of Commerce, and hope that this bill does not go back down to a lower level on the list. We hope that it is maintained at pace and moved through the Government\u2019s business and Government bills before this House. We hope that it can be expedited very quickly so that the reputation of New Zealand and our standing in the international commercial community can get back to where they were. So New Zealand First supports this bill and commends it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022804faaae65594173b8ab2da5029b2b3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022804faaae65594173b8ab2da5029b2b3b\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure and a privilege to rise to speak in favour and support tonight of the Companies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill. I am delighted to hear from across the Chamber that there is broad support for this piece of legislation and its introduction. Minister Foss, the Minister of Commerce, and my colleagues who have spoken earlier in the debate have gone through the detail of the legislation, so it is not my intention this evening to make anything other than some overview comments about the importance for New Zealand\u2019s economic and commercial sector that we have faith and confidence in our incorporation laws and our incorporation regime. That is not just important for us domestically; it is also important that internationally our market place has its reputation, which it has guarded over so many years, protected, and that our well-trusted reputation is in fact enhanced by this piece of legislation. So this piece of legislation puts in place a few simple protections to enhance our incorporation laws. It preserves the transparency of, and protects the confidence others have in, our rules and regulatory environment. As I said, it is with great pleasure that I speak tonight in support of this piece of legislation. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022b402109fa1fb4950b4b3da8885f6d72b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b402109fa1fb4950b4b3da8885f6d72b\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. I would like to speak tonight in support of the first reading of the Companies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill. As you have heard, Labour is supporting this bill. We are supporting this bill because we understand that New Zealand has an international reputation as a trusted place to do business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has also got an international reputation as being one of the least corrupt countries in the world, and we take that very seriously. Therefore, we do not agree with the Prime Minister, John Key, who yesterday told the media that trade-offs had been made by allowing New Zealand to be the easiest place in the world to set up a company. He said that the changes being made were to preserve the country\u2019s reputation, but in talking about trade-offs\u2014and I will be talking about that in a minute\u2014there are some serious questions, I think, that have to be asked. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EQuestions have to be asked about just what the Government\u2019s intent is around this legislation, and, when it gets to the select committee, whether or not there will be any attempt to reduce its impact and water it down in any way. I have got a few questions for the Minister of Commerce about that, particularly given what he has said today on this bill. But the first point to make is really a big ups to Simon Power, the previous Minister of Commerce, who had the wherewithal to get this legislation drafted to deal with what is a pretty serious issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI just want to point out that in a legal opinion that was given by Bell Gully around this issue, this bill was seen very much as being an important piece of legislation that was developed after so many of these issues came to light, and that the legislation was brought in\u2014I think it was described as being in the dying days of the previous administration\u2014as we came towards the election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe Ministry of Economic Development, at the time, said that it was thought that this legislation was going to be coming before the House as a matter of urgency. We are now 7 or 8 months down the track, and it is only now appearing before the House. I think you have got to ask yourself why that is. A new Minister was in place, and I would have thought he would put it pretty high on the list of priorities. Either he did not understand its importance or he was just not that bothered about protecting New Zealand\u2019s reputation in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAs a result now, we are off the white list. As you have heard tonight, New Zealand has actually been taken off that important white list. It has been described as the prestigious European Union banking and corporate white list. Earlier this year New Zealand was removed\u2014along with Russia\u2014over our weak money-laundering and terrorism financing controls. Being struck off that white list, as we have heard tonight\u2014although I note that the Minister did not actually mention this in his opening remarks to us tonight\u2014means that banks and institutions in the European Union \u201Cwill not be entitled any more to make simplified research for banks and financial institutions registered in New Zealand\u201D, and that European institutions can no longer accept and acknowledge customer identification and analysis performed in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI do acknowledge that one of my colleagues on the Commerce Committee who spoke tonight has mentioned a couple of these instances, but I thought I would mention a couple more, because there have been quite a few of them, as we have heard. Despite the fact that there are some measures in place to ensure that there is more monitoring of this, they have not necessarily gone away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAt the root of this issue, which is what I hope will be discussed in full when the bill comes before the Commerce Committee, is the fact that this is about our reputation. You cannot buy a reputation. You cannot manufacture a reputation. You earn it, and once it is gone, it is a bit hard to win back. So this is important, this legislation. It is important that we are sending a strong signal out there in the international community that we do take this stuff seriously, that we guard jealously our reputation as not only a good place to do business and to set up businesses but a place that you cannot take advantage of, and a place where you cannot set up companies that are essentially rorts and are into money-laundering. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EHere we have just a few of them that I thought it might be worth mentioning. The London-based NGO Global Witness uncovered the movement of billions of dollars in suspicious transactions through AsiaUniversalBank in Kyrgyzstan by New Zealand, British, and Bulgarian companies. This was reported in April 2010. Hostas, I think it is called, was named in a 2010 report prepared for the Ukrainian Ministry of Finance, where a Ukrainian company entered into government contracts with the Ukrainian Ministry of Healthcare. It was a company that was registered in Auckland. There was nobody in New Zealand who actually was attached to that company. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EFalcona Systems Ltd was allegedly used to gain $150 million in kickbacks for Ukrainian and Latvian officials. Investigators found that it was registered to another address in Albany, Auckland, and it was struck off the companies register in October 2011. Tormex Ltd allegedly washed $680 million through bank account in Riga, Latvia. A multi-national investigation pointed to Russian mafia connections. A company registered in Queen Street\u2014which I think might have been the company that Jonathan Young referred to\u2014SP Trading Ltd, was found to have chartered a Georgian-registered plane to fly embargoed arms. That is the instance that was mentioned earlier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThese are just a few quite serious incidences of this issue, which the Government has been aware of for some time. This bill is part of addressing this issue, but it has taken, as has been pointed out on numerous occasions tonight, 2 years to actually get to this point where it is going through its first reading and going to the select committee. I suppose the point that I am making tonight is that when it gets to the select committee, let us hope that it is actually treated with some importance and actually goes through that process and comes back to the House as soon as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EToday I have just read a piece that has come out in the media reporting remarks from the Minister of Commerce around this where he said that there might be some changes at the select committee. Well, that is fair enough. Any bill needs a good bit of scrutiny and a look at how to improve it and make sure that it is actually going to be a good piece of law, because that is what we do on the Commerce Committee. But he said: \u201CThere\u2019s a fair bit of opinion around some of the broader details of the Bill \u2026 There has been discussion around criteria for directors. That\u2019s the big one.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThis gives me a warning bell, because this may be\u2014and this is what I would like some clarification on\u2014around the introduction of criminal offences for directors who commit a serious breach of their duties. This is where these offences become criminal activities, where they are liable for imprisonment for up to 5 years or fines of up to $200,000. If we are going to take this issue seriously, if we jealously guard our reputation internationally as a good place to do business and as a place that is not corrupt, then we do need to ensure that, internationally, people looking at this country will know that there will be serious sanctions if they do engage in criminal activity and if they think that they can try to use our country for their illegal activities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ELabour supports this bill. I am looking forward to the discussion in the select committee. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022852bd4c83d034e70a893bb50644bbb4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022852bd4c83d034e70a893bb50644bbb4a\u0022\u003EPAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to speak on the Companies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill. I do not want to trespass too long on the time of the House, other than to say that, ultimately, this is a result of a good thing\u2014that is, the ease of setting up companies in New Zealand, which is something that we have celebrated over an extended period. But human nature being what it is, we have seen over the last few years some problems emerging through criminal activity being undertaken through New Zealand - registered shell companies. We have heard throughout the evening of the problems that this has caused. This bill sets out a very straightforward, systematic, and sensible way to deal with that serious problem for New Zealand, and I commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022711734e7c1f54ba8af90dc4d30e11f28\u0022\u003ERaymond Huo\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00229a70b08da4884f03b51d6a04c8f89601\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a70b08da4884f03b51d6a04c8f89601\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a split call, Mr Huo?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229edbd6574603429fa0171fe9bbdefe74\u0022\u003ERaymond Huo\u003C/span\u003E: No, I understand the Greens are not going to take a call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206f3390e58934e519f94078285d9a207\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: So you have a 10-minute call. Is this by agreement? Are the Greens happy? Please proceed, you have the call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u0022dea16decda954cab8ba3c5b1a3da6984\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dea16decda954cab8ba3c5b1a3da6984\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Listening to the contributions from members from various political spectra, I believe members will agree with me that in the context of this bill\u2014namely, the Companies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill\u2014New Zealand has presented two conflicting images to the world. On one hand, New Zealand has an international reputation as a trusted place to do business. Both the World Bank and the International Finance Corporation have ranked New Zealand the easiest of 183 countries in which to start a business. Transparency International ranks New Zealand the least corrupt country of the 183 surveyed. On the other hand, New Zealand has been subject to domestic and international media attention on overseas interests exploiting New Zealand\u2019s incorporation process by using New Zealand - registered shell companies to undertake illegal activities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EIt is saddening to read the Fairfax New Zealand news that New Zealand, together with Russia, has been struck off a prestigious European Union banking and corporate white list. Russia has been struck off the list because of the levels of corruption. Although no reason has formally been announced by the EU, from the reports we understand New Zealand has been struck off over New Zealand\u2019s weak money-laundering and terrorism finance controls. Being struck off the white list means that banks and institutions in the EU \u201Cwill not be entitled any more to make simplified research for banks and institutions registered in New Zealand\u201D. It also means European institutions can no longer accept and acknowledge customer identification and analysis performed in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EIn the final days of the 49th Parliament, the outgoing Minister of Commerce, the Hon Simon Power, introduced this bill. This is an omnibus bill that covers a number of proposed reforms seeking to tighten requirements around company registration and company directors to help protect New Zealand company registration processes against criminal activity from overseas jurisdictions and to apply similar measures for limited partnerships. Between then and about the time New Zealand was struck off the EU white list, there was a 6-month or so gap, so time was of the essence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe bill requires each company registered in New Zealand to have a resident agent if there is no director living in New Zealand or in an approved jurisdiction. Resident agents will be responsible for ensuring companies provide accurate information to the Registrar of Companies, and will be liable if companies breach their record-keeping and filing requirements under the Companies Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E The bill also gives powers to the Registrar of Companies to investigate and deal with non-compliance with the Companies Act. This includes the power to flag companies on the register that are under investigation. The bill makes similar changes to the Limited Partnerships Act so that those misusing New Zealand companies cannot avoid the new regime by registering limited partnerships instead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe bill aligns the Companies Act with the Takeovers Code to ensure shareholders understand the effect that changes in company control will have on the value of their shares. The bill enhances the registrar\u2019s investigative and deregistration powers in relation to companies and limited partnerships. Also, the bill introduces criminal offences for directors who commit a serious breach of their duties to act in good faith and in the best interests of the company. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EI look forward to the development of this bill, and support those measures introduced, in principle. It is shocking to note that one of the incidents at the centre of the domestic and international media attention involved a New Zealand - registered company with a vacant driveway in Auckland\u2019s Albany as a registered address. It was that registered company that had been one of the key players in the US$1.2 billion money-laundering scandal in central Asia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has an international reputation as a trusted place to do business. We must restore that confidence in the international business community. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002246a8c5253eb846afba3192d43e2eeeec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246a8c5253eb846afba3192d43e2eeeec\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E I am very proud to stand in the first reading of the Companies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill. My colleagues have ably given good content on this bill, and I support the Hon Craig Foss in this reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5642620e9954d1998b57bf9cc190b1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5642620e9954d1998b57bf9cc190b1e\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. Those who are of that opinion will say Aye, to the contrary No. There are no votes recorded against, so a party vote is not required. I declared on the voices that the motion was agreed to. I shall revert to that. The motion is agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Commerce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229b0c741aaebe4e7e84c09a65d43b24c6\u0022\u003ECommerce (Cartels and Other Matters) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eec7ca9c1a9548d8bf52bb0b55733aa7\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u00225a8040f1c4824534a1c600009fbeddf7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a8040f1c4824534a1c600009fbeddf7\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS (Minister of Commerce):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Commerce (Cartels and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Commerce Committee to consider the bill. The bill amends the Commerce Act 1986 to deter hard-core cartel conduct by clarifying the scope of the prohibition against hard-core cartels and introducing criminal sanctions for serious offending. Although it might not be reflected in the title, the other important aspect of this bill is that it encourages pro-competitive collaboration by encouraging an exemption for collaborative activity and a clearance regime. This bill also makes a number of other amendments to the Act, including to the provisions that govern jurisdiction and penalties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe Government believes that a competitive, innovative economy trading successfully with the world is the best way to build sustainable economic growth that creates jobs and grows incomes. Effective competition underpins the productivity of individual firms and the public sector, and as a result plays an important role in the overall economy. The bill provides a vehicle to build a stronger, more competitive economy by encouraging pro-competitive collaboration and innovation, and deterring hard-core cartel conduct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EHard-core cartels are formed when rival firms agree not to compete with each other, by fixing prices, restricting outputs, allocating markets, or rigging bids. They cause harm to consumers and have a negative effect on economic efficiency. In 2010 Cabinet agreed to release a discussion document exploring the introduction of criminal sanctions for hard-core cartel conduct. Submissions identified problems with the current regime. In particular, there was uncertainty over the scope of prohibition and whether it prohibited legitimate pro-competitive conduct. Submitters suggested that if the scope of the prohibited conduct was ill-defined, then introducing criminal sanctions could exacerbate existing problems by having a chilling effect on commercial behaviour and increasing compliance costs. In response to this, the policy process has focused on clarifying the law around hard-core cartel behaviour and ensuring that any changes support pro-competitive business arrangements. To facilitate this, Cabinet agreed to develop and consult on an exposure draft bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003ETurning to some of the amendments to the civil regime, the bill amends the current prohibition on hard-core cartels, which has been criticised as being unclear in scope. The amendments specifically prohibit price fixing, restricting output, allocating markets, and bid rigging. During the policy process there was discussion about whether the prohibition would focus on the purpose or the economic effect of the cartel arrangements. Given the negative effects of hard-core cartels, this Government considers it is important that the prohibition extend to both. It is not enough to say: \u201CBut my purpose wasn\u2019t to fix prices.\u201D when it was reasonably foreseeable that the conduct would have the effect of fixing prices, allocating markets, restricting output, or rigging bids.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003ETo ensure that the bill encourages collaboration, it has a number of key features. These include two new exemptions: the collaborative activity exemption and the exemption for vertical supply arrangements. It also introduces a clearance regime for collaborative activities. The collaborative activity exemption replaces the current joint venture exemption. It should make it clear to businesses that pro-competitive and efficiency-enhancing activities are encouraged under the Commerce Act, not prohibited. The collaborative activity exemption has been designed so that businesses can assess for themselves whether their proposed collaboration falls within the exemption. It asks whether the collaborative activity has a legitimate collaborative purpose\u2014in other words, that the activity does not have a dominant purpose that is anti-competitive\u2014and whether the cartel provision is reasonably necessary to achieve that purpose. The exemption for vertical supply arrangements ensures that vertical supply arrangements within a vertically integrated company, which are commonplace and generally considered to enhance consumer welfare, are exempt, except where they have an anti-competitive purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe bill introduces a clearance regime that allows businesses to approach the Commerce Commission prior to entering into an arrangement. Clearance provisions provide confirmation for a business that the proposed collaborative activity would not breach the Act. These features act as safeguards to ensure that the bill appropriately targets anti-competitive conduct, which harms New Zealand\u2019s productivity and competitiveness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe introduction of criminal sanctions remains an area of contention. I believe that with the introduction of criminal sanctions, New Zealand stands to benefit in three ways. First is the increased deterrence of hard-core cartels due to the severe sanctions, associated stigma, and possible restriction of an individual\u2019s freedom. Second is the increased detection of hard-core cartels from improving the effectiveness of the leniency regime by increasing the value to the individual applying for leniency. The leniency regime is administered by the Commerce Commission, and encourages cartelists to come forward in return for leniency. Third is an improved ability to cooperate and detect cartel conduct. This is particularly important for global cartels, where information is more likely to be shared with countries that have criminal regimes. People who intentionally participate in hard-core cartels deserve to be sanctioned in the same way that those who participate in tax evasion, fraud, or other white-collar crimes are. For this reason the bill proposes that individuals be subject to a maximum criminal penalty of 7 years\u2019 imprisonment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThere is a real opportunity for the select committee process to add value by carefully considering the relationship between the civil regime and the criminal regime. We have the opportunity to enhance the workability of the regime where potential issues are identified in advance. I would encourage both competition law and criminal law specialists to consider the relationship between the two regimes, and I will be particularly interested in the submissions that the select committee receives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe bill makes a number of other amendments aimed at resolving specific issues that have arisen since 2001, when the last major amendment was made to the competition provisions in the Commerce Act. I would particularly welcome the select committee\u2019s views on the new regime, which encourages parties to mergers that take place wholly offshore but affect a market in New Zealand to apply to the commission for clearance. The regime sets out a process that would enable the commission to apply to the High Court for a declaratory judgment that an offshore merger substantially lessens competition in a market in New Zealand. The High Court would then have the power to make an order against the New Zealand - based company to remedy the competition concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe regime raises a number of issues that are more complex than meets the eye. As currently drafted the bill allows the Commerce Commission to apply for a declaration where an overseas person acquires a controlling interest in a New Zealand company. The controlling interest test in the bill creates a brightline test for overseas companies. However, it sets a higher threshold for intervention than the test that would be applied if the merger was between two domestic entities. During the policy process some submissions suggested that it may be appropriate to have two different tests. This is a discrete but important issue, and I will particularly welcome the select committee\u2019s views.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI would like to thank those who have contributed to the policy process for this bill so far. Your submissions have helped shape the bill that is currently before us. I hope that all stakeholders continue to engage with the select committee proceedings in a similar manner. New Zealand has a world-class competition regime. The competition provisions of the Commerce Act have not been subject to any substantial amendment since 2001. Consequently, this is a significant piece of law reform that will ensure New Zealand is well placed in relation to its major trading partners. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002271c55b629eac4ad8973e7b170d6d9b94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271c55b629eac4ad8973e7b170d6d9b94\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Similar to the last piece of legislation, the Companies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill, the Labour Party will support the Commerce (Cartels and Other Matters) Amendment Bill at the very least being referred to the Commerce Committee. We reserve the right\u2014as I said with the last piece of legislation\u2014to examine the detail of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI must say from the outset that this legislation is unlike the last piece of legislation we dealt with, which had sort of languished around the Order Paper\u2014well, it had not even got on the Order Paper, I think, since the respected Minister of Commerce the former Minister Simon Power had kicked it off. This Minister of Commerce had let it languish, to the detriment of our international reputation, including, as I said in the debate on the last piece of legislation, New Zealand being struck off the European Union white list. This legislation has, I think, at least to a high degree, been put together in a far more positive and constructive way in terms of consultation with the industry and with the sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ECartels make markets, as we know, less competitive and they lower output or increase prices to consumers. They are insidious. There has been activity in respect of cartels within the New Zealand context. There have been cases. For instance, in the wood chemicals case in New Zealand the cartel was estimated to have caused an overcharge of $9.7 million over 5 years, but at that time\u2014and currently, of course\u2014the penalties were wholly inadequate in that the total penalties came to $5.4 million. So it is timely\u2014again, for the reasons I outlined in the last piece of legislation\u2014that we are brought into line and that our reputation as a country and as commercial entrepreneurs is managed and carefully protected, but, more important, we are brought into line with other major trading partners such as the US, Australia, the UK, and Canada, which have criminal sanction regimes already in place. I think it would be fair to say that the time for this legislation has certainly come. The time for us to get very serious about the detection, the process of dealing with it, and the penalties associated with that process\u2014getting serious about those\u2014has come, indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ECartels, of course, can be difficult to detect, and to ensure that they are adequately discouraged, our view is that substantial criminal sanctions are required. I do note, as the Minister did, that within the bill the criminal penalties are up to 7 years\u2019 imprisonment, three times the commercial gain or 10 percent of the turnover, and, I believe, up to $10 million. These are substantial criminal sanctions for hard-core cartel activity. The bill also helps, obviously, to promote the deterrence of hard-core cartels while not deterring efficiency or deterring efficient, collaborative activity. So it takes nothing away from entities that want to collaborate appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ECartels, of course, as I have said, are an illegitimate transfer of wealth from consumers to businesses. This bill will bring us into line, as I have said, with other countries, but especially with Australia, which introduced these sanctions as far back as 2009. I suppose, without rehearsing arguments, again it does beg the question in respect of priorities. I take nothing away from the Government\u2019s process of consulting and having exposure drafts with the industry, but I wonder, when Australia dealt with this issue in 2009, why we have sort of been dragging the chain on this issue. It is now halfway through 2012 and this bill appears before the House. So I suppose my message to the Minister and the Government would be that the Government sets its own priorities, the Government sets it own agenda, and we have heard that there is a 120-point plan\u2014or plans; there are so many plans that this Government is running out of paper and ink\u2014but there is a difference between having a plan on a piece of paper and actually implementing it, executing that implementation, and making it happen. When our biggest trading partner, Australia, has had legislation in place since 2009 with tough sanctions for hard-core cartel activity, I do not think it is incumbent on us to be the junior partner and poor relation and sort of languish for 2 or 3 years until somebody turns their mind to actually introducing a piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister that, obviously, there is some bipartisan support for this bill, because it is in all our interests, in respect of our country, to ensure that our commercial and country reputation is protected and enhanced, but, again, I will be asking the Minister\u2014and I am sure the select committee will want to know again\u2014what exactly the priorities are for this Government. This legislation may not turn the lights on for many in the media and it may not be some sort of ruggedly populist activity or populist policy that is going to light up hundreds of thousands, or millions, of the populace, but it is a damned important piece of legislation. I believe, and the Labour Party believes, that it should have had greater priority than, for instance, other pieces of legislation we have dealt with, like the John Banks regulatory reform bill, which was awe-inspiring in its stupidity of repealing 31 Acts that are spent or do not exist. The Government thought that was a greater priority, until John Banks came a gutzer, of course. I mean, he has disappeared without trace, like the Invisible Man. But it thought a bill that repealed 31 Acts that basically had no effect on anybody was a greater priority than this piece of legislation and the previous piece of legislation we have dealt with just a few moments ago in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo you have got to ask of this Minister of Commerce where his priorities and those of his Government lie: 31 Acts that do not exist, or this. This is important, and if you have been in business\u2014and I know that many members of the House, including me, have been in business\u2014you know the importance of appropriate competition law and of appropriate regulation that unleash a sort of esprit de corps and spirit of entrepreneurship in this country, and also allow our commercial entities to act appropriately and make deals in other jurisdictions, knowing there are international safeguards. So if we do not line up, if Australia has these institutional requirements and we do not, then which is the more attractive market to do business in if you are looking as an international company, New Zealand or Australia? I just ask the Minister again where the priorities are, where the work programme is, and why we have waited so long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe know, of course, that at least 6,000 companies from 57 countries have been alleged or proven members of international cartels, and that comes from the American Antitrust Institute working paper, which has been around for some time. That is international research. So 6,000 companies in 57 countries have been alleged or proven members of international cartels. The total known effect of sales by international cartels is some US$16 trillion\u2014US$16 trillion. That is a substantial amount of money, and it gives us motivation to get this bill in an appropriate shape to ensure that it is examined in detail and progresses through this Parliament in a timely way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe bill, as we are aware, will apply to some conduct outside New Zealand in order to capture all New Zealand cartels. It will make forming a cartel subject to pecuniary or criminal penalties, and make any contracts formed involving cartels invalid. The banned cartel conducts, as the Minister has pointed to are price fixing\u2014that is, companies agreeing on a set price or discount\u2014restricting output, where companies agree to reduce the supply of goods or services; market allocating, which is agreeing to pursue different customers so as not to compete; and bid rigging, which is agreeing on prices to submit for tenders. These provisions only apply, of course, between companies that compete with each other, not between supply and distributor, or other vertical arrangements. Joint ventures between companies would also not be caught by this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI think, in essence, it is one of those moments where we can agree that the substance and the detail of this legislation are important. Those of us who have been in business know that. It is important. It will be supported. I would perceive that, unless there is a catastrophe, the Labour Party will support it right through\u2014and by catastrophe I mean the Government mismanages this issue in the same way that it has mismanaged things like asset sales and other important issues before this Parliament\u2014because we believe, like all parties, that we have to ensure that the regime that business operates in, both domestically and internationally, allows our entrepreneurs to grow their businesses, to make the money to put bread on the table, and to employ people, because that is what a business does. Some decry business. Without business, we would not have economic growth. Some people decry economic growth, I think, in this Parliament\u2014one or two interesting folk from the Flat Earth Society\u2014but economic growth is important, as are exports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut I just say to the Minister please get your priorities right. Please ensure that we do not have silliness like dealing with the repeal of Acts that do not exist while legislation like this lies upon the Table and languishes. It is important for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u002298728bf4b9a7497da74d6864810b1d69\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298728bf4b9a7497da74d6864810b1d69\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to stand in support of the Commerce (Cartels and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. This amendment bill will help achieve one of the objectives of the single economic market, which is that firms operating in both Australia and New Zealand jurisdictions are faced with the same consequences for the same anti-competitive conduct. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EOnly a robust economy that ensures businesses have a level playing field will see the investment, effort, and entrepreneurship required to build economic growth. If businesses collude to rig bids, control prices, restrict outputs, or choke supply to lift prices, then what we see is those companies trying to dishonestly protect their margin or increase their margin at the expense of the consumer and also at the expense of other businesses seeking to enter that market. This puts a tourniquet on the economy, which will restrict the lifeblood of investment we so desperately need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EMore than anything else, this country needs the sense that the aspiration and hard work to commercialise new ideas can be rewarded. One of the fundamental values of the National Party is reward for effort. We cannot and must not allow cartel behaviour to choke off and stifle the engine room for economic growth. Cartel and anti-competitive behaviour attacks innovation and entrepreneurship by slewing disadvantage to one while creating an advantage to another. We look forward to this bill coming to the Commerce Committee, where we can progress it so that we can continue to build a great foundation for business success in this country. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca6bba15df664339aabd95f46b3ed037\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca6bba15df664339aabd95f46b3ed037\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Ever since we had the United States some years ago embarking upon Operation Enduring Freedom or the coalition of the willing, I have been suspicious of loaded names when they come before Parliament. So I have been somewhat intrigued to hear all of the speeches so far in this debate that talked about \u201Chard-core cartel behaviour\u201D. Immediately I had something springing to mind that was in the publishing industry that was not really at the Mills and Boon end of romance. But then I looked further at this Commerce (Cartels and Other Matters) Amendment Bill and I saw that other than in the explanatory statement, where there is this loaded reference to \u201Chard-core cartel behaviour\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adc7603b3de249b681a7d2270f900807\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Domicility, are you talking about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229211c7c24f284f43a4f242279d47b0a8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Domicility? No, I am not talking about domicility or other hard-core cartel behaviour in the vernacular! I was surprised when I read the bill, having picked up the copy that was on the Table in the House in front of me, to see that other than in the general policy statement, there is no reference to \u201Chard-core cartel behaviour\u201D because it actually is not a term of art, or a term of science, or, indeed, a reference to hard-core publications. I think it is intended to be a reference to bad or serious cartel behaviour, rather than some sort of cartel behaviour that might not be quite so serious. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAfter that little diversion, I think it is appropriate to record that there are repeated incidents around the world, including in New Zealand, of inappropriate cartel behaviour by certain large industries that have dominance. There are a small number of players who can influence price inappropriately to their commercial advantage and to the disadvantage of consumers, who have to pay more for their products or cannot get them when they should be able to. We have seen instances of that, some of which have been referred to by the Minister already and by my colleague the Hon Clayton Cosgrove, who made reference to some of the wood chemical price fixing that was going on, which cost New Zealand industry a considerable amount. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EPerhaps the largest of these events to have happened in New Zealand recently, which is referred to in the regulatory impact statement that is on the Table of the House, dealt with air freight, which was at a cost of some $200 million over a period of 7 years. It shows that the additional money that can effectively be stripped out of the New Zealand economy and out of the pockets of consumers to the benefit of corporates that embark upon illegal, anti-competitive practices can be quite significant. This legislation attempts to control that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIf we want another example of where the ethics in business are sometimes less than they ought to be, of recent note has been the controversy in respect of the bank liability rates in the United Kingdom and the United States, where there was effectively cartel-like behaviour over there that led to interest rates being set to the benefit of banks to the tune of probably billions of dollars over the period, and that would effectively have been at the cost of other participants in the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ECartel behaviour can exhibit itself in a number of ways. You can have an agreement to charge prices that are less than competitive. You can have agreements to carve up market share in a way that results in less competition, which results in higher prices. You can have agreements to limit the supply of a good or service in an artificial way where, because there is an inadequate supply of that good or service, the price is driven up because there are more people who want to acquire that good or service than there is available to be purchased because of this constraint on supply that is artificially orchestrated by those within the cartel. So all of these things have to be covered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAs prior speakers have said, you also have to be careful that you are not stopping things that are not inappropriate\u2014inappropriate levels of collaboration, or, in some cases, vertical integration of some aspects of industry can be in the interests of consumers and can be an outcome of competitive behaviour, which is to the advantage of society, because prices are not higher than they need to be. And we all know that if prices are higher in one area, then something else suffers in another. For example, if someone has to pay too much for their electricity, then they might not be able to buy some clothes that they need for their kids, etc. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo although this bill is good in so far as it goes, it is interesting to me that the Government is lauding the fact that it is introducing competition in this area, where in another area of the economy it is probably causing a cost to the average residential consumer of about $200 per annum as a consequence of what will be the effect of the State-owned enterprise sale. We know that the average amount that is currently charged by a State-owned enterprise to a residential consumer is about $200 per annum less than the private sector competitors. We know that the electricity market is limited in its competition. That is why it has got so many rules. Rules for the conduct of the electricity market are thicker than the Bible, in an effort to make that market more competitive than it would otherwise be. It is still not a perfectly competitive market. We know that from the analysis that has been done by Molly Melhuish and others, and it remains uncontroverted despite the fact of some of the National Party\u2014I have heard Tony Ryall taking issue with a very small part of her analysis\u2014trying to discredit the whole thing. We know that in reality the absence of true competition in that market, followed by strengthening this private sector effort to try to maximise profits through increasing prices in the electricity sector, will have far more effect on consumers than this Commerce (Cartels and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, which, although a worthy thing for consideration by this Parliament, will not be as influential on the interests of New Zealanders as will the effect of the sale of interests in those State-owned enterprise companies, where the prices will move towards the private sector competitors following privatisation of those public company shares. So although the Labour Party supports this bill, I note that the bill will not have as much effect as that other measure that I have talked about, which goes in the other direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons why it is necessary to update this is that we know that the pernicious effects of cartel behaviour can be wide-reaching and we know that currently the penalties are inadequate. If you are a cartel and you get away with it for a period of years, the civil penalties are at the moment so low that you could be quids ahead despite the fact that you eventually get caught and are brought to justice through the New Zealand courts. The civil penalties will be less than the amount that the cartel has taken out of the New Zealand economy. So for that reason it is necessary to change the penalty provisions to make it clear that the payment that can be sought from the cartel more accurately reflects the loss that has been caused. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe regulatory impact statement makes the point that even after this legislation is passed, not all cartel behaviour will be caught. It is very hard to pinpoint this cartel behaviour on occasions where some of the conduct is commenced outside the shores of New Zealand and these arrangements are very opaque. The regulatory impact statement, if I read it correctly, estimates that even after this bill has passed, only about one-third of the cartel behaviours, on best estimates, is likely to be uncovered, which means that two-thirds of the cartel behaviour will go undiscovered and unpunished. So this will not be a universal panacea to the problem, but it is an appropriate step. It will align us more closely with the steps that have been taken in other Western jurisdictions that have identified that this problem does need to be addressed and have introduced penalties similar to those being proposed here. The closest comparison is probably in Australia. They have had this for a couple of years, which does point to the fact that this amendment in New Zealand is probably overdue, rather than ahead of its time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u00226afc051e5c2745708b8542f6b5c81de3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226afc051e5c2745708b8542f6b5c81de3\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on the Commerce (Cartels and other Matters) Amendment Bill on behalf of the Green Party. The Green Party will be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThis bill essentially has a number of elements, but the most prominent element, of course, is that it is introducing criminal sanctions for cartel behaviour. Essentially, the rationale for that is one of deterrence. Currently, those caught engaging in cartel behaviour, which is basically anti-competitive behaviour to restrict competition and hence drive up prices for consumers and other businesses, face financial penalties. They can be at an individual level or at a corporate level. At an individual level there can be significant penalties, but there is no guarantee that the companies that are employing those individuals will not, effectively, indemnify them. Although it is illegal to indemnify them, companies can, effectively, do it. So if a managing director is convicted under the current law and faces a fine, then the company could give them a bonus the following year, or so forth, in a way to, effectively, mitigate the risk to any particular individual who might be caught engaging in cartel behaviour. Part of the rationale for this bill is to try to address that problem. To introduce real deterrence against cartel behaviour, this bill will be introducing criminal sanctions. For that reason, we think it is essential that we match our regulatory framework to that of Australia, and introducing criminal sanctions is part of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe reason why competition policy is very, very relevant to New Zealand is the nature of our market. The OECD economic survey 2011 pointed particularly to the nature of New Zealand\u2019s market being very small. In a number of sectors there are a small number of firms that dominate those sectors, and this means that anti-competitive behaviour is more likely in New Zealand than perhaps in some larger economies where you would find many players who are competing with each other. When you look at some of our sectors you find that there are very few players. Whether it be banking, whether it be shipping, telecommunications, or electricity, there are a small number of players that dominate the sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EIt is interesting when you look at shipping, because currently shipping is exempt, effectively, from the anti-competitive provisions of New Zealand law. For those of you who remember the Ports of Auckland dispute, one of the remarkable things that I did not realise until the Ports of Auckland dispute is that the shipping companies can lawfully engage in cartel behaviour, and presumably do. I was looking to see whether this amendment bill would try to take on the shipping companies that are engaging in anti-competitive behaviour, but it became clear as I read the bill that the Government does not have the courage to do that yet, even though the Productivity Commission, in its most recent report in, I think, April this year, recommended that the Government head in that direction, as the EU has recently done, and remove the exemption for shipping industries from anti-competitive laws. The problem we have in New Zealand, which a lot of other countries have but, particularly, a small country has, is that the shipping companies engage in cartel behaviour to drive up the price of shipping from New Zealand to the rest of the world. So it seems to me that there is a strong argument for making sure that the shipping companies, as well as other companies, are covered by anti-competitive legislation, particularly that around cartels. So we are disappointed that that is not in there. But none the less the bill is progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EI think when we are looking at why this bill is important, an example of why we need some kind of criminal sanction is that of the Australian banks in the tax avoidance case. The tax avoidance case was the biggest theft from the New Zealand taxpayer that has ever been caught, I guess. The Australian banks were found to have stolen around $2 billion from New Zealand taxpayers, and eventually were forced to pay it back by the courts in New Zealand, after the Inland Revenue Department went after them. Westpac and all the rest were caught stealing from the New Zealand taxpayer. Not a single person from any of those organisations went to jail\u2014not one. No manager, no managing director, no director from the boards\u2014none of them\u2014went to jail. So from their point of view tax avoidance was simply a business proposition, and when you look at it from that point of view it is just tax avoidance. You know, the companies try to minimise the amount of tax they pay, so they take advantage of everything that tax creates in our society\u2014the basic institutional frameworks that are only possible because of tax. Civilisation is possible only because of the taxation system. But the Australian banks then stole from New Zealand taxpayers about $2 billion, probably more, and were finally caught. But they did that knowing that it was a purely commercial proposition, because none of them was going to end up in jail\u2014where they should have gone, obviously. Anyone who steals that amount of money from the New Zealand Government should go to jail. That is why criminal sanctions are important\u2014so that those who are engaged in this kind of activity, whether it be anti-competitive activity or stealing from the taxpayer, know that further down the track it will not just be a commercial proposition but they themselves could end up in jail. That is why this part of the cartel law is important to change\u2014so that it is not just a commercial proposition, and those who are engaging in this behaviour understand what will happen to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe other issue, I think, that we have really struggled to get our heads round in relation to competition law in New Zealand is the application of competition law to large multinationals that are operating here versus New Zealand companies that are based in New Zealand and trying to export to the rest of the world. I would argue that we need an uneven playing field in respect of those two different kinds of companies. And the reason is this. If you have a number of multinationals operating in New Zealand, often in an oligopolistic market\u2014so a small number of players, which, of course, is the nature of the banking sector, for example\u2014there is a temptation for those players to not operate in a competitive way, and we have certainly seen that in the banking sector. When Labour, the Greens, and the Progressive Party had our banking inquiry in the last parliamentary term, it was very clear from the evidence we got that it was only the entry of Kiwibank that substantially increased competition in the banking sector, and that the big four Australian banks were operating in an anti-competitive behaviour in order to maximise profit and reduce competition for market share\u2014because trying to compete for market share is expensive. So in terms of the way that we regulate those kinds of sectors we need very, very strong regulation to maximise competition, and we may also need, as was the case in the banking sector, the intervention of the State to put a real competitor in the field that could compete with the big Australian banks. That is what Kiwibank did, and Kiwibank, of course, has driven down the cost of credit in New Zealand quite substantially, and has saved the entire New Zealand economy many hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars by increasing competition in the banking sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EBut when we look at the export sector, when we look at New Zealand owned and based companies trying to export to the rest of the world, it does not necessarily suit us to have exactly the same approach to competition. Fonterra, of course, is the obvious example. Parliament effectively created a monopoly in Fonterra. Although it is essential that we regulate Fonterra\u2019s activities in the New Zealand domestic market so that we do not have higher prices of milk, it is also important that Fonterra and companies like Fonterra have the critical mass they need to project into the rest of the world, and sometimes that critical mass means being large players in the domestic market from whence they come. Applying exactly the same rules to New Zealand firms that are trying to project into a globalised world in an open market that we apply to multinational corporations that are operating in oligopolistic sectors within New Zealand does not make sense. So a level playing field is not always the most sensible way for a small, open economy to regulate competition. We need to regulate competition in a way that maximises the advantages to New Zealand. So we reduce the cost to the consumer where you have large, overseas-owned businesses operating in New Zealand, but also allow New Zealand businesses projecting into the rest of the world to get the critical mass they need in order to effectively do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EI think that our thinking around competition policy is insufficiently sophisticated and needs to be more sophisticated. Rather than our taking a universalist view, a kind of new-right economic ideology of what competition policy should look like, we should adopt competition policy that makes sense for a small, open economy a long way from its markets, and that kind of competition policy needs to be rather more subtle and sophisticated than the kinds of policies we have seen out of this Government so far, if we are to have the kind of economic development we need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u002253f1fcd3ab784cd4a63d17c8046fceaf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253f1fcd3ab784cd4a63d17c8046fceaf\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak in support of the first reading of the Commerce (Cartels and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. I think this bill is critical to New Zealand\u2019s economy. This bill seeks to amend the Commerce Act to introduce criminal sanctions for individuals and companies who get involved in such cartels. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u00228320082ea2394ca6b0988eae2131abfb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228320082ea2394ca6b0988eae2131abfb\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak on the Commerce (Cartels and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. New Zealand First will be supporting this bill through the House. However, we still do have some concerns, like the previous bill that was discussed tonight, about some aspects of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EI personally can recall over the last few decades how New Zealand has been subjected to influences of what could have been termed cartels. From my experience in the shipping and meat industry over many, many years, we certainly were subject to price fixing by international shipping lines serving this country. Being an island State and dependent on our exports of meat and foodstuffs, it was certainly disappointing to see that occurring over many, many years. The cost of shipping containers 20 years ago was absolutely horrendous. For a period of time I worked for an independent shipping line, ABC Container Lines, which challenged the cartel and brought independent cheaper freight rates, particularly for wool, to New Zealand. As a result the returns to New Zealand wool growers, returns to the Wool Board, and returns to sheep farmers in New Zealand increased considerably, because the cost of freight to Europe and other markets was lessened. Likewise, during my time in the air cargo business I was certainly witness to the fact that there was a great deal of price fixing on the part of airlines, and, in fact, it was very difficult to get New Zealand cargo into many markets without having to take a fixed price on the freight rate, because there simply was not much choice over many, many years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EWe are asked often in this country, to this very day, whether we still have cartels in this country, and whether there is price fixing. One has to ask the question, really, when we continue to see the price of petrol being adjusted by the major four companies, basically following each other within minutes or hours of another moving their prices. You do wonder how much independence there is in the price of petrol in this country, when you drive down a road and you see the same prices at every consecutive petrol station. Likewise, when you go into the supermarkets and see the bottles of milk there, from one major chain to the next major chain, and they are an identical price, you do start to wonder how much independence there is there and whether there is true competition in our milk pricing. Similarly, New Zealand is one of the most expensive countries in the world for telecommunications. Our mobile phones are extremely expensive. Again, you do wonder how much competition is out there. Is it genuine competition, or is it just working the system to ensure that the consumers of New Zealand pay as much as they can take out of them? Likewise, as was mentioned by the Green Party tonight, you do wonder similarly about the banking system where again many of our bank rates and many of our bank charges are so similar, particularly coming out of the Australian banks, how much is \u201Cwink wink, nudge nudge\u201D, and let us just get on with it. So there is a lot there on the table, and certainly I hope, and New Zealand First hopes, that the Commerce (Cartels and Other Matters) Amendment Bill will address some of these issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EAt the same time, we would hope that this bill addresses situations where there could be what is called the rigging of bids or the fixing of bids. One does have to ask whether this sort of situation is occurring in New Zealand as well. We are not saying it is, and we are not pointing any fingers, but with this Government dismissing three or four bids for the International Convention Centre, in favour of only one bidder, one does start to wonder whether there is price fixing in this country or there is \u201Cwink wink, nudge nudge\u201D from the Government\u2014the same Government that chose to have its conference last weekend at that same Skycity convention centre, had its victory party for the election at that same convention centre, had its campaign launch last year at that same convention centre, and gave that convention centre another 500 pokie machines\u2014or is going to. Within this situation, and where this bill refers to price fixing or rigging of bids and being pro-competitive, you do hope that the same rules will apply to the Government as well. We also see in Christchurch, again where there is a huge amount of work being done, questions being asked as to whether the one preferred contractor of the Earthquake Commission and the Government is in fact providing a competitive situation. This week they have reduced the rates of pay by $6 per hour and the labourers and workers have simply had to take that pay cut or leave it\u2014lump it or leave it. They are the only Government-appointed contractor, and you do again wonder whether within this country there is price fixing and arrangements going on that are not necessarily competitive, but which are actually anti-competitive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EIn closing, I would note at the front of this bill the following paragraph. I would like to read this out because I think it is very, very pertinent and the people out there perhaps listening to Parliament should be aware of it. It says on the front of this bill: \u201CAs noted by the OECD in 2003, the pernicious effects of cartels on economic efficiency are wide-reaching. By raising prices above the competitive level and decreasing output, cartels have the effect of making consumers either pay a higher price for the product, or forgo the product entirely. The consumer is therefore an unknowing participant in the illegitimate transfer of wealth to the cartelists.\u201D That is very damning in terms of how this could occur in this country, how it has occurred in the past, how we would want to stamp this out, and how we do not want to see \u201Cwink wink, nudge nudge\u201D deals done by the private sector or the Government sector, or indeed by the Government itself, or indeed by Cabinet in this country to provide a situation where the \u201Cwink wink, nudge nudge\u201D deals get done, while others are left out in the cold and in an anti-competitive situation. New Zealand First will support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u00223a9e5055bc514a2381a5deea1e84fcdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a9e5055bc514a2381a5deea1e84fcdc\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to speak on the Commerce (Cartels and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. I want to make a brief call just to acknowledge that one of the objectives is to ensure that firms operating in both New Zealand and Australian markets are faced with the same consequences for the same anti-competitive conduct. We know that anti-competitive behaviour and cartels are bad because they lead to increased costs. Where do those costs often end up? They end up with the consumer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill is to ensure that we amend the Commerce Act to introduce criminal sanctions for hard-core cartel conduct. There is a 7-year imprisonment penalty for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to make a couple of other points in terms of how big this issue is. One of the things I was really surprised about, from reading the regulatory impact statement, was some of the figures. My understanding is that in Australasia at least 6,000 companies from 57 countries have been alleged or have been proven to be members of international cartels. The known affected sales by international cartels is $16 trillion. That is a huge amount of money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI commend this bill, because it brings this law into line with our major trading partners, the UK, Australia, and Canada. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u002234cab395632147edab1dd7287eafae38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234cab395632147edab1dd7287eafae38\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to take a call on this bill, the Commerce (Cartels and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. It is actually one of the most important pieces of legislation that has come before this House in recent years. I do have to put on record, because I sit on the Commerce Committee, that I am pretty disappointed with the lack of enthusiasm or with the significance that is being given to this issue by the other side of the House, which seems to think that a couple of minutes spent discussing it is important. I would like to remind that side of the House about the whole point of the Commerce Commission and the values that lie behind the role of the Minister of Commerce, and that is, actually, to ensure that there is competition in this country that is for the long-term benefit of consumers\u2014the long-term benefit of consumers. Cartel behaviour is one of the most significant issues\u2014collusion and activities about price fixing that go on between companies\u2014and all kinds of other activities that essentially impact on consumers, on affordability of products, and on the ability of businesses to actually operate effectively when up against the power that cartels can hold. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI would like to say again\u2014this is the second time in the House tonight\u2014that I have actually given a great big tick to the previous Minister of Commerce, Simon Power, for the work that he did on this issue. I would like to draw the House\u2019s attention back to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230be7c42e0874d9c981fd63a4394db4d\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s watching.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d7a821ab5b44dbda3cd14eba0544b29\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I think it was 2009\u2014and I do hope he\u2019s watching tonight, because this is a significant moment for him, to actually bring this piece of legislation to the House. The bill followed on from the work that was done by the previous Labour Government. It does not seem to be being taken all that seriously on that side of the House, and I am a little bit fearful about what might happen to it when it gets to the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI would like to remind the House that in 2009 the previous Minister of Commerce came before the Commerce Committee. He was asked point-blank whether he would consider criminal sanctions for cartel behaviour, and he said yes. It took a couple of years to get that legislation together, but he said that, yes, he would consider the possibility of jail sentences for those operating price-fixing cartels. Just so that everybody knows when that was, it was 18 June 2009\u2014more than 2 years ago. That was a significant moment, and it followed on from the work that had been done in the commerce portfolio, principally by my colleague the Hon Lianne Dalziel, around bringing these issues to the fore and making sure that they were on the agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E I want to make a couple of comments. One is around some of the messages that were being delivered on competition law through the legal profession at that time, in 2008\u2014which was before this Government took over\u2014around the absolute importance of this issue in our region, across the world, and particularly with our trading partners. They were taking this issue more and more seriously. New Zealand has lagged. Unfortunately, New Zealand has lagged behind in this area, and you have got to ask yourself why, because catching people who are engaging in cartel behaviour is actually a really significant issue. Not only is it a significant issue but also putting sanctions in place that are actually going to act as a deterrent is the most important thing. That is what this piece of legislation does, and what we should be saying to each other tonight\u2014there is pretty wide support across the House around this\u2014is that this is a critical issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI note that my colleague from New Zealand First, Andrew Williams, raised a few issues around different industries. I would just like to say that New Zealand is a country of duopolies. It is a country that has two major telecommunications companies, two major supermarkets, and two major petrol chains. It is a country where our competitive environment is constrained by our size, but as a result it is an environment where we need scrutiny. We need the sanctions in place to ensure that behaviours do not occur where consumers are affected. Particularly in an environment where industries and an infrastructure are being developed that are supposed to underpin the growth in our economy in the future, then we have to be extra vigilant\u2014extra vigilant around ensuring that there is not exploitation and practices going on that are ripping people off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI refer particularly to our ultra-fast broadband environment, because that is the pipes that go into your home with the fibre, but alongside that goes the content that is going to come through and into our homes. We have to ensure that we have a competitive environment. If we are going to be a country that is going to use technology as a transformational tool, then we have to truly use it as a transformational tool and make sure that there is not rorting behaviour, that there is not monopolistic behaviour, and that there is not behaviour that is about ensuring that one company gets preference above another when it comes to tendering or behaviour in the market place. This is why we need an active Commerce Commission that is out there examining these issues, has the jurisdiction to do it\u2014and I would be interested to know what the Minister\u2019s view is on this\u2014and then has the ability to impose penalties when there is behaviour that is unacceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ECartels: the arrangement between two or more businesses to regulate output\u2014that is what this bill is about. But there is a wider issue around the behaviour of companies in general in this country. If we are going to be a country that is using technological advances and using infrastructure to drive our economic future, then we have to ensure that we have the regulatory underpinning to make sure that we are taking the best advantage of that, for the whole of New Zealand, not just for a few companies. Therefore, we need to ensure that the effect of collusion, the effect of the behaviour that cartels can have on economic efficiency\u2014this Government likes to talk about economic efficiency. Well, it needs to put its money where its mouth is. That is why this legislation is so important. It is just part of the regulatory environment that we need to ensure we have in this country, which will ensure that there is adequate competition so that we have companies and businesses that are able to thrive in this country, make profits, produce exports, and develop an economy that is going to thrive. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00220e6fb4a9ffbb425bbff4598d4d8c9378\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e6fb4a9ffbb425bbff4598d4d8c9378\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E The introduction of criminal sanctions against cartels via the Commerce (Cartels and Other Matters) Amendment Bill will bring New Zealand into line with many of its trading partners, including the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, and Australia. This will allow New Zealand to play a more active role in the global fight against hard-core cartels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI commend the Minister for bringing this bill to the House, and I know that the Commerce Committee will give it due consideration. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u002268f47834b0704907a1883318ebacc4f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268f47834b0704907a1883318ebacc4f8\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220b93c83714f4d10a9d2d58a37e0f5c2\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a split call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229849042e15b44f791a0f8b10c45c392\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO\u003C/span\u003E: That is my understanding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022115011a5fa3a4007bd2fb133b802abeb\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Are the Greens happy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230ef75a1a7594df0b9f9b4e01ffc7cc2\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not. It\u2019s a 10-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221982dac1f0684988a623382072c3ad2f\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right, a 10-minute call, Raymond Huo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dcc8daeedd243d581447dd79fe01b7b\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO\u003C/span\u003E: I meant to say that given the time constraint I would like to take a short call, but I have got a thumbs up from the Minister of Commerce, the Minister responsible for this Commerce (Cartels and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. I feel flattered and honoured.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EI would like to echo what my Labour colleagues said earlier. The reasons are obvious. Firstly, from the regulatory impact statement, at least 6,000 companies from 57 countries have been alleged or proven members of international cartels, and, secondly, almost all of our major trading partners, such as the USA, the UK, Australia, and Canada, have criminal sanction regimes already in place. Thirdly, cartels are designed to control prices and limit competition. They are an illegitimate transfer of wealth from consumers to businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThis bill will effectively bring New Zealand into line with Australia, which introduced sanctions in 2009. The bill amends the Commerce Act 1986 to introduce criminal sanctions for serious cartel behaviour, and makes a number of other amendments, including to the provisions that govern jurisdiction and other penalties. If enacted, the bill will fundamentally alter the scope and enforcement of New Zealand\u2019s competition law, and will be the most substantive reform of the Commerce Act since it was passed in 1986. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThere has been no survey of public attitudes towards cartel criminalisation in New Zealand, but it is interesting to note that the results of a 2008 survey of public attitudes in the United Kingdom precisely mirrored the results of a similar survey recently conducted in Australia\u2014that is, there is substantial majority support for the view that cartel conduct is unacceptable, but a minority of that think that cartel conduct should be a criminal offence, and less than a quarter think that individuals should be jailed for it. It is difficult to see why public attitudes would differ greatly in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ENow, what is a cartel? A cartel is a group of similar, independent companies that join together to control prices and limit competition. The banned cartel conduct includes price fixing, restricting output, market allocating, and bid rigging\u2014namely, companies agreeing on prices to submit for tenders. During the initial consultation process Russell McVeagh raised a concern that the new regime will chill competitive contact due to the uncertainty of its application. The Ministry of Commerce has responded by allocating a budget and asking the Commerce Commission to, among other things, develop prosecution guidelines that outline when it would take a criminal prosecution, and undertake advocacy and education initiatives to promote better understanding of the prohibitions in the Commerce Act, particularly the cartel prohibition. I look forward to the development of this bill. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Commerce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002295b402341053453bb9520748108b61f0\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002236b7cd95decd4940b82d10cfc918ee83\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002215b23872ee444b32930fb84a436e2042\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215b23872ee444b32930fb84a436e2042\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, as the next item on the Order Paper is the Committee of the whole House and we cannot convene that inside of 5 minutes before the House is scheduled to rise, it now is for me to say that the House will stand adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.58 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201207247fe1b8db9ceb470ea5e2872d4c6e0f18000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"