"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228b9fdfb86a234efb910d9752f261838f\u0022\u003EWednesday, 22 August 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228d91a5086476402ca7104aa6c0ed5cff\u0022\u003EWednesday, 22 August 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c18869616d247c1832efa6bc78c6a1c\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2335ea4cfe343baaecde3a2b633b239\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229d61c30e2a7f4c99a461e8ab8b964558\u0022\u003EInfrastructure Investment Programme\u2014Progress\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022d23ef9588b264ba1b0b2a1625a48fd23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d23ef9588b264ba1b0b2a1625a48fd23\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What progress is the Government making in its infrastructure investment programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1e17f639a63429983e961ef592d6ba8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1e17f639a63429983e961ef592d6ba8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Over the last four Budgets the Government has directly invested more than $5 billion in ultra-fast broadband, hospitals, schools, rails, and roads. The planned spend over the next 4 years is around $18 billion, in part to be paid from the Future Investment Fund. The Government has set out to give businesses more certainty and confidence about infrastructure provision, and last year we released a second National Infrastructure Plan, which is improving planning and decision-making processes around infrastructure investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e203f9d9b1a4c4196bfd7c210fe15ed\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How will infrastructure investment in those key areas like the electricity grid, ultra-fast broadband, the electrifying of rail and its turn-round programme, the upgrade of State highways, and new water projects contribute to the Government\u2019s broader priorities in such a tight fiscal environment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9dadaf28c0c48e1a495e0f8518cb32b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Despite the tight fiscal environment, the Government has laid out a 7 to 10-year programme of investment, and most of the funding for that investment is locked in. Despite the tight fiscal environment, we believe that investing for the future growth we are confident the New Zealand economy will generate is vitally important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238fa1df5007046689afbde180ede36ae\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What steps is the Government taking to improve the quality of managing New Zealand\u2019s tens of billions of dollars that it has invested in that infrastructure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f07ac00464c494688a90b1bafa5fe51\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That is a good question, because often the focus on infrastructure is about new projects, but, of course, most infrastructure is already in existence, and there are much larger efficiencies to be gained from managing the current infrastructure better than there are from better scrutiny of the new projects. In the 2011 plan the Government identified six aspects of infrastructure management that are important: stronger investment analysis, increased resilience, clearer accountability for performance, broader funding mechanisms, consistent regulation, and better coordination. We expect to be improving each of these aspects of the management of infrastructure. Probably one of the challenges coming up is to increase resilience of infrastructure by dealing with new earthquake standards that may flow from the royal commission of inquiry in Christchurch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbabfc0974da40ee988ed4b68d867f70\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister justify spending billions on projects with low benefit-cost ratios at a time when he is having to borrow billions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222027d4693f7646fe993ed60745dfd405\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is not investing in projects with low benefit-cost ratios. If the member is referring to roading investment, we are very pleased with the roads of national significance plan, which gives businesses, the public, and the infrastructure industry the certainty that over the next 10 years we will be spending billions on upgrading our roads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227f34be2a8dc4496b8bd5e415ecf909af\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022 data-id=\u002288617d0ce3334185aabe12249bd08029\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288617d0ce3334185aabe12249bd08029\u0022\u003EHOLLY WALKER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for my question to be transferred to the Minister for Social Development, to whom it was originally directed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00222ce2b8f0760a4e1394d6491bf85bbe4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ce2b8f0760a4e1394d6491bf85bbe4c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cadbda0b43b14db7a67fb43982abdb23\u0022\u003EChild Poverty\u2014Effect of Working for Families\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022 data-id=\u002235ec788d6b3846539c995cb081753012\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235ec788d6b3846539c995cb081753012\u0022\u003EHOLLY WALKER (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What comparative impact has Working for Families had on poverty rates for the children of working parents, and the children of beneficiaries, using the fixed line measure of 60 percent of median income adjusted for housing costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb3d5842d4834cea86b188d4d8a5a850\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb3d5842d4834cea86b188d4d8a5a850\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The 2011 household incomes report uses 1998 as the relevant reference year. According to the particular measure that the member has chosen, there was a fall in poverty rates as Working for Families was rolled out, from 2004 to 2007. For the two groups the member has referred to, on the after housing costs fixed line measure, child poverty rates fell in working families from around 16 percent to 8 percent, and for those in beneficiary families the rate remained about the same. Our priority, of course, is to focus on those in persistent deprivation, because the poverty line measures do not adequately measure those who genuinely suffer persistent deprivation and all the problems that go with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220970c6b410784604ae152478421f49c1\u0022\u003EHolly Walker\u003C/span\u003E: Given that Working for Families has halved poverty rates for the children of working parents, but done nothing for the children of beneficiaries, leaving 70 percent of them in poverty, is he satisfied that the Government is doing enough to meet the basic needs of every child?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fa5fa9ca75d4d29872b519e649dcad9\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: On the second question, yes. Through one of the more significant recessions we have seen in many decades the Government has protected the income levels of those in our lowest-income households. But the first part of the question, I think, demonstrates the difference in views about how to deal with poverty. The Government is focusing on mobility\u2014that, in fact, a lot of families who at some times and in some periods experience low incomes actually get out of that situation. The in-work tax credit is designed to encourage people from benefits into work, and reward them for making the choice of going to work, because that is the best decision they can make to improve the incomes of their household and their children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022089fad1bc7e1415a9509e4b010d94ec0\u0022\u003EHolly Walker\u003C/span\u003E: What if a parent cannot find work? Do their children still have the same basic needs for food, shelter, warmth, and clothing that they would have if their parents were working?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8ad8a8db9aa4129a43b58fcf7b6ce3f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, their children do have basic needs that ought to be met, and that is why the Government has throughout the last 4 years, since the beginning of the recession in 2008, protected the real value of the incomes of all our low-income households. But I would repeat for the member that those levels of income are part of the story. The other part of the story is to maintain the ability for families and individuals to move on to higher incomes. The analysis of New Zealanders\u2019 time on low incomes shows that a relatively small number stay on low incomes for a long time, and even of those who are on low incomes, only a proportion suffer the symptoms of persistent deprivation, which is the worst aspect of poverty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022733df40fdb3d43898a4957de0694b54e\u0022\u003EHolly Walker\u003C/span\u003E: Is it a child\u2019s fault if their parent cannot find work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e420636b5c6e4e0a8ba7d71d6a05a688\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Bill English, in so far as he has any ministerial responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab478e31f6094a5db6d4df4a289a4b31\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc4578838daa4c2787a34dd3712882c2\u0022\u003EHolly Walker\u003C/span\u003E: Since children have the same basic needs regardless of the income status of their parents, will he support the Green Party bill to replace the in-work tax credit with a payment for all children who need it, and eliminate a blatant discrimination against some of our poorest children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7c7dbd653e9444db12f1f077f3bdbbd\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, we will not. In fact, on the issue of discrimination, this case has been to every tribunal it can go to and no one has found that the difference in payment is discriminatory. We will stick by the policy that has been in place for some time, put in place by the previous Labour Government\u2014that is, maintaining the in-work tax credit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220076b8a725ee4b6cafae6a76b4d99b2f\u0022\u003EHolly Walker\u003C/span\u003E: Is his Government really committed to ensuring that every child thrives; if so, will he take an investment approach to children, like they have in the Netherlands, where early investment in children saves billions of dollars and produces some of the best child outcomes in the OECD?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aea217de21ef479292129a1abca024bd\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we do believe that every child should thrive and we believe that we have about the right balance of fairness and incentive for households that are on low income, where we would all like to see children face better prospects. I give some advice to the member, though. I think that quoting examples from Europe may become less relevant as Europe starts dismantling their very generous systems that they have had in place, because generally across Europe they cannot afford to maintain those systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249050654b74f4bb5b37ed84a4f5c3c7a\u0022\u003EHolly Walker\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a report prepared by Rowe Davies Research for Every Child Counts, released today, entitled The Netherlands Study: Learning from the Netherlands to improve outcomes for New Zealand\u2019s children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4e4be722df24dbeb6b1cce617da5fd1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228f5126c0da44442e8f4a438dafcf0bd5\u0022\u003EState-owned Energy Companies and Air New Zealand, Sales\u2014Parameters\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7242a16c8134a5f87d87a57f4e628aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7242a16c8134a5f87d87a57f4e628aa\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00228ab5979960794dbd8b6d738f2a7ff736\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ab5979960794dbd8b6d738f2a7ff736\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. For example, I stand by the statement I made in the House on 24 May 2012 that \u201CSeeing as it is a zero Budget and there is not a lot of money to spread around, let me give some free advice to David Shearer: when David Cunliffe has a shave, be worried, because he is coming after you.\u201D That was very good advice. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284a7b1b0579548be8dc46fb08dd58f5a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dc6f3078dec47ce8732fabfe65625f6\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Given his statement that \u201CMixed ownership will free up $5 billion to $7 billion, which we can use to buy new assets \u2026 without having to borrow more from offshore lenders.\u201D, will he be revising the $5 billion to $7 billion figure in light of the changed circumstances of Solid Energy, Might River Power, Meridian Energy, or Air New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8c2112bf44b4b5799d70f34e588b26a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205a044a61cfd45c2b44d329babd7e574\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Given that Bill English, his finance Minister, has said: \u201CWe would only take any of these companies to the market if they are in good shape for investment and Solid Energy right now certainly isn\u2019t.\u201D, what impact will the delay and potential cancellation of the sale of Solid Energy have on his Government\u2019s ability to deliver a balanced Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc36cc0bde554db190229d492ae0f8a0\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: There may not be a delay. It has always been the Government\u2019s view that this is a 3 to 5-year programme. It has always been the view that Solid Energy is likely to be the last cab off that rank, because the energy companies are in better shape to go to the market. As the member might be aware, Solid Energy is experiencing some issues at the moment because of the falling coal price, but these things move around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8e014d174724bc0b907e5cb55656f26\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Given the comment of John Palmer, the Chairman of Air New Zealand, that the disappointing share price for the company means that \u201Cthere probably isn\u2019t any particular urgency for the Crown to sell\u201D, what impact will that have on balancing the Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d2519745cda4db3a53ae524b55f0e14\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: None. As I said, it has always been a 3 to 5-year programme. The Government has always taken the view that it would look to maximise the return, within reason. There has been nothing stopping the Government, now that the mixed-ownership legislation has been passed, from taking the portion of Air New Zealand that we could sell to the market, but the Government has chosen not to do so, solely because it believes that at some point it will get a better price for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a94d1f09fd7047ab9250c6c13cb8c8d9\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Will the negotiations between the Bluff aluminium smelter and Meridian Energy, or the fact that Meridian Energy customer Norske Skog plans to halve production at its Kawerau mill, have any impact on the value of Meridian Energy; if so, how will that affect the balancing of the Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1899ed807f0469ea7439e6e23efbe8e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is impossible for me to answer the question in relation to Meridian Energy and Rio Tinto, because that is a commercial matter between the two companies. But they have longstanding contracts and in the past they have always seemed to be able to work those out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e61432f70ebf49d0a854b0e765073f28\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the troubles around Solid Energy, Mighty River Power, Meridian Energy, and Air New Zealand, will he now bow to the overwhelming New Zealand public pressure to not sell our assets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b915cfe44e6b4df9b8f82c7890c2b54b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224523c25a9d8b42e0920e91451829ca29\u0022\u003EBusiness Research and Development\u20142012 Technology Development Grant\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u002293599ca5b914487786be24638192fb68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293599ca5b914487786be24638192fb68\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Science and Innovation: What investment is the Government making in innovative research and development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022624c6394f2eb4c19955c505de3f35c99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022624c6394f2eb4c19955c505de3f35c99\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Science and Innovation):\u003C/span\u003E Today the Government opened applications for the $45 million 2012 round of business research and development co-funding through the technology development grant. This investment is part of the Government\u2019s plan to back business-led research and development by speeding up development of innovative products and services and getting them to market faster. Our leading high-tech businesses need to maintain their competitive edge in global markets, especially in tough world economic times. This programme helps to take some of the risk out of research and development, and encourages businesses to reach for more ambitious research and development goals by providing 20 percent co-funding of their research and development activity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247fb33a53e714df9b6e7faf0b8f0cfd3\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: How does this investment from the Government contribute to the goals announced in yesterday\u2019s Building Innovation report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec33489a289b4e1a97be24d7b4cb3183\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The technology development grant programme opening today is just one part of our $115 million a year investment in TechNZ\u2019s business co-funding research and development programmes. By co-funding additional business-led research and development in the New Zealand economy, we achieve much more than we would if we just allowed firms to reclassify existing expenditure. Successful innovation improves competitiveness, increases our economic output, drives productivity growth, and creates successful exports by introducing new or improved products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f7037547839d45b887e50305fed008a9\u0022\u003ESuperannuation Fund\u2014Percentage of Assets in New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00224848f7cdd21c462186ac7ae24284febc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224848f7cdd21c462186ac7ae24284febc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Has the New Zealand Superannuation Fund invested 40 percent of its assets in New Zealand; if not, what was the percentage in 2008 and what is it now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022125e200fe3404a17b545185ad0f4f0b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022125e200fe3404a17b545185ad0f4f0b2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The answer to the first question is no. It has not yet invested 40 percent of its assets in New Zealand. In 2008 and now, the percentage depends a bit on how one measures it, but if you exclude cash and include foreign exchange hedging, the New Zealand investment has risen from $3.2 billion to $4.6 billion. On the same basis, as a percentage of total investments, it has increased from 26.6 percent to 28.6 percent. The Superannuation Fund has identified a number of New Zealand investment opportunities, including, I presume, the Government share sale coming up, but it will remain disciplined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8771980dc4b4699a7bd7560d15b1241\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the proportion of the Superannuation Fund invested in New Zealand not much different from what it was in 2008, when a promise was made to lift that to 40 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aff82360cb1f418fa38570facc38757e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member is misrepresenting the statements made at the time. If he wants the answer to that question, he should go and ask the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. What I can tell the member is that the sale of Government shares in energy companies will assist in the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239f33ac236b94ea58f0a7665d1092c3d\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Has he ever said the reason more of the Superannuation Fund was not invested in New Zealand was that the Government\u2019s economic management had not created enough growth and investment opportunities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280466f257bc84aadba9b0fcdba22835b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It is up to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to make its own investment decisions. As the member will know, that is how the legislation is structured. Government instruction to it would actually breach the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3ead7b406fc4a078736bca7e7914917\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Was he implementing his promise to invest 40 percent of the Superannuation Fund in New Zealand when he said on 13 August this year: \u201CThe Government is doing its bit by investing overseas through the Super Fund \u2026\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcdb594ccb494451a6b4958b2afe7736\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That was in the context of a discussion about\u2014[Interruption]\u2014well, if the member listens. The discussion was about the fact that New Zealand has, compared with most other developed countries, low outward investment. One of the significant outward investors is the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, which according to its statutory requirements diversifies its investment around the world and, therefore, has a relatively low proportion of the total savings invested in New Zealand. Most of it is, in fact, invested offshore, and that probably is increasing New Zealand\u2019s outward investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad551fc45c4649a6bd236d655336a567\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Which of these promises has he failed to deliver on: investing 40 percent of the Superannuation Fund in New Zealand, closing the wage gap with Australia, reducing income inequality, or reducing unemployment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f30f4d590ff4ab2a0b7c699ea579cbf\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: We have done at least two or three of those, and made excellent progress on the others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f5a341488aed4bdcacc4e1ae891b93bb\u0022\u003EOverseas Investment Rules\u2014Confidence in Minister for Land Information\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ced0f316ce3a4e1f9205cff6395528a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ced0f316ce3a4e1f9205cff6395528a2\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he have confidence in his Ministers; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00224582ac0f80954b6d839ea11776780c7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224582ac0f80954b6d839ea11776780c7e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes; because they are capable and hard-working Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4f92995e76d44d7ab5641fff9dc14f4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How can he have confidence in the Minister for Land Information, when the Minister advised on the 7th of this month that the Overseas Investment Office had not completed its investigation into May Wang\u2019s and Jack Chen\u2019s illegal purchase of four farms, when in fact the Overseas Investment Office concluded its investigation on 22 December 2010, a full 10 months before Miss Wang was charged in Hong Kong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211e5614cafee454182cc283fc22f824a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Because I take it it takes some time to work through those issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227014a733ba2f41798c57c97c56b0172f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How can he have confidence in the Minister, when he and his department did not take legal action to get the four farms divested during the 10-month period when there was no stay on such action being taken as Mr Williamson in this House has claimed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224742f7c9f2fd48039aa7369b3a783d20\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: For the member\u2019s education, the farms in question were bought illegally. No approval was sought or given by the Overseas Investment Office or the Minister for Land Information. The illegal purchases were discovered by the Government as part of another process, and it is now going through a process to regularise that land. That has been held up because of the court case that has been taking place, as I understand it, in Hong Kong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f44ccfb20eea489ebc89521ea3277cbe\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am asking the Prime Minister when there was a 10-month gap with no legal stay at all, the reason being given to this House, why legal action did not take place. I never have insinuated that the Minister approved these four deals. That is the reason why\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ce99511cbef4fffa0bcb0e7e75ca07b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member is seeking to debate the issue. I would really appreciate it if the member would actually look at his Hansard and see what he actually asked, and compare that with what he just said under his point of order he asked, because they were different questions The question the member actually asked to the Prime Minister was how he has confidence in his Minister, given a certain range of things. The question the member then said he actually asked was why did these things happen. Those are two different questions. If the member wants an answer to the question \u201CWhy did certain things happen?\u201D, then that is the question to ask, not \u201CHow does the Prime Minister have confidence in the Minister \u2026\u201D, because there are so many answers to that question. I want to be helpful to the right honourable gentleman, because I have got no problem with the issue. I am not trying to protect any Minister from being accountable, but the issue is the wording of questions. If the member asked the question he posed under his point of order, that would, I suspect, get a different answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf5a64322eb74ce3ad2cf75d2e7233f2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This was my question: \u201CHow can he have confidence in the Minister, when he and his department did not take legal action to get the four farms divested during the 10-month period when there was no such stay on legal action being taken as Mr Williamson has claimed?\u201D. It just needs a simple answer. Why did he not act when he could?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc7cc757f49043bcbf46b7eb8f7e6b26\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The problem is the question the member asked\u2014that was the original question, indeed\u2014asked the Prime Minister why he has confidence, or how he can have confidence, in the Minister. It did not ask why the Minister did not act. There are two questions there. I am not wanting to be difficult but I cannot be unfair to the Prime Minister. I cannot say to the Prime Minister: \u201CThis is what the questioner really means. You must answer it that way.\u201D The Prime Minister has to listen to the question and answer the question. The member in his point of order raised a different question, which I suspect would have got a different answer. That is what I am trying to point out\u2014that there is a way to ask the question, but it is not \u201CHow can the Prime Minister have confidence in the Minister?\u2019.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e543046fc2648c0b96dd653dedfbbcb\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. With respect, the question is about his having confidence, and I want to know why. That was the primary question\u2014\u201Cif so, why?\u201D. We were told it is because he is competent and hard-working, and I am just putting up a classic case of no action being taken by him or his department, despite the assurances to the House in the past\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdd0fe5919754defb2eec73f11e1a8f5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am trying to be helpful, because I do not want to deprive the member of his chance to ask legitimate questions. I fully accept that there are legitimate questions to be asked, and the member has identified the two ways to ask the question in both the question asked and the point of order raised. The point of order, in my view, asked a different question. It asked why certain things did not happen, and the member has got a right to know the answer to that question. It relates to the primary question. It relates to the answers given. I see no reason why the question should not be a legitimate supplementary question. But it is a different question from asking how the Prime Minister has confidence in the Minister because of certain alleged happenings. It is a different question. I can only ask the Prime Minister to answer the question asked, and that is my dilemma. I am not trying to be difficult. I just cannot ask the Prime Minister to answer a question that he has not been asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bc7f1e972af4d288218c457da130beb\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Who asked the Prime Minister whether or not the Minister, Mr Williamson, had approved the four deals? I did not. No one else has done that. So why was that part of his answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228548ddc8f9d2494592b8dd4099301931\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! We are now, though, debating by way of point of order the way the Prime Minister has answered, which is just not acceptable. It is totally outside the Standing Orders. The member, I believe, can question exactly the way he wants to; he has just got to word the question so that I can then require the Prime Minister to answer it. But I cannot ask the Prime Minister to answer, because where a question is how the Prime Minister can have confidence in something, there is a multitude of answers to that kind of question. I cannot tell the Prime Minister that he must answer it in this way, because I have no power to do that. There is no way under the Standing Orders that I have the power to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa601d46959d4d31a79d5f45a0904efc\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: On the question of his confidence, does the Prime Minister accept that thus far Mr Williamson has not provided any reason why May Wang and Jack Chen were not and are not facing charges for their serious illegal actions, where each offence is regarded as being so serious as to attract a $300,000 fine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297768a66710043528ce183b3051151ef\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b9c2b87711e4868ba6d43508f6b03c2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: On the question of confidence, what possible reason could there be for Mr Williamson and the Overseas Investment Office, first, not to take legal action against Miss Wang and her associates in the 10-month period back in 2010 when there was every opportunity to do so, or, second, for Mr Williamson to advise the New Zealand Herald, as reported on the 16th of this month, that May Wang and Jack Chen \u201Cwill not face charges in New Zealand for breaching the Overseas Investment Act\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f683198246d4e069e01f674ce8f4ab7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Because, as I said, the farms were bought illegally, without the knowledge of the Overseas Investment Office. At the time that was discovered by the Government, it took some time to work out whether they in fact were illegally purchased or not. May Wang was, for instance, a New Zealand citizen at the time. So it took some time to work their way through it. When they were confident of that, they took action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002209f07b5a738b4622a776e53fc9a9d95e\u0022\u003ESchools, Charter\u2014Non-registered Teaching Staff\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u00229462b2f12bbf4b67a2cc0a2c64c16163\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229462b2f12bbf4b67a2cc0a2c64c16163\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour\u2014Hauraki-Waikato)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: How many of the 36 Person A Ministerial Inquiry actions she has adopted will apply to non-registered teachers working in Partnership Schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u0022935405749d8f4fcc98c6f145692bfec4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022935405749d8f4fcc98c6f145692bfec4\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Twenty-five actions or more could apply, depending on the final contract let. Importantly, every person in a partnership school will undergo extensive background and police checks. This includes all non-teaching and teaching, unregistered and registered, employees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fec707a9667c4bde88c6f533783bf77f\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Given that teachers in charter schools may not have to be registered, how will any of the 11 actions relating to teacher registration with the Teachers Council help prevent sex offenders from being employed as teachers at charter schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296b593275af74ea5a595cdf021c698b9\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: And that is why I said 25 or more of these actions will apply, of the 36, depending on the final contract let. Regardless, all employees, no matter what their status, will be subject to police vetting and extensive background checks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9f33966594b4e098413a6945cbf237c\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: How will making information about teachers\u2019 name changes available to schools, through the Teachers Council register, help prevent charter schools from hiring sex offenders, given that charter school teachers will not necessarily even have to be listed on the Teachers Council register?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b02408337197474e8e4693bbfb45cca0\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: Because we will specify in the contract when we are negotiating with charter schools how those checks and balances will be incorporated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3928ed2310e48888b0fa05561674f75\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Is she\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266ce2e1893bb440c888fd738a13c023a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I want to hear the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e987722716b44bd4a76dd6e1655596c1\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware that teachers are police vetted every 3 years when they have to reregister, and can she assure the House that non-registered teachers working in charter schools will also be police vetted every 3 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1c6f5e40de84967be31845d96a7ead4\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed, they are often vetted more often than every 3 years, and we will be expecting the same level of probity, protection, and safeguarding of all students in all schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256880e5538db4373a039c5928f1b4148\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: If there is no difference whatsoever in the vetting and background checks for non-registered charter school teachers, why did officials warn the Minister last year that \u201CThere is the challenge of ensuring that students are not put at risk by mentors who are not necessarily subject to professional licensing.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8206ddba9d544f1848002cd48d5c518\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: I think we need to distinguish between being unregistered and being unqualified, because, at the minute, registration requires a registered person to hold a teaching qualification. We are talking about a whole range of other qualifications. At the moment, in fact, there is a whole number of people who are in teaching positions\u2014early childhood educators, volunteers, teachers under the limited authority to teach, tertiary educators, trade course educators, and staff at private training establishments\u2014who are teaching but are not registered with the Teachers Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f68c543caa94a0b9d2214a33fc5637d\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document requested under the Official Information Act from the ministry, stating its concerns regarding some of the risks involved in appointing non-registered teachers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227ddf4d8f83d4247a239486d5e726dc5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a8c98629e80f44a9b280f3fb50cfa9d3\u0022\u003ETransport Planning\u2014Effect of Oil Prices\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00224c7428f0a8b9467b8194f4fc9bd65ea8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c7428f0a8b9467b8194f4fc9bd65ea8\u0022\u003EJULIE ANNE GENTER (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Will he reconsider the Government\u2019s motorway projects, in light of the impact that record high petrol prices may have on motorway usage; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002256c09d278534406daa3bd53d0f3cba9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256c09d278534406daa3bd53d0f3cba9b\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E No. Petrol prices do fluctuate and they do spike, but that would be no basis to abandon an infrastructure programme that will deliver intergenerational positives for the economy and the environment. The inputs to pump price these days are somewhat different. It is noticeable that Z Energy is leading the way at the present time. Last weekend it had a supermarket deal arrangement that saw discounts of 10c a litre for a $100 spend, up to 50c a litre for a $400 spend. It is clearly evident, then, that the pump price is an extremely irrational input into the consideration of strategic transport policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aff61e3da6f64c0b9c0ad8798fc81dd9\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Given that high oil prices and low economic growth have resulted in stagnant traffic volumes for more than 5 years now in New Zealand, what evidence does he have that spending $12 billion on a few new motorways is the best way to move people and freight and get the economic outcomes that he wants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236bb1af0ec6640b387a6f0d1a01fe38d\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is unfair to say that traffic volumes have been stagnant, when there are so many places around New Zealand where there is very significant congestion. Our view would be that not only would you be getting rid of that congestion by having better motorways but also you would save on the miles spent in journeys and the time that the engines are running, which is very good for the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1d623f4df21413385f0135f470c6a1c\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table, for the benefit of the House, the State highway traffic volume growth index from the New Zealand Transport Agency, which shows clearly that there has been no growth in traffic volumes on State highways since 2004.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201ddc8b79a124948bb72b9295a7c79d0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document from the New Zealand Transport Agency. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262c2669f26ad418291362dd9d242f8c9\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Government\u2019s motorway building programme not amount to a $12 billion bet that petrol prices will not continue to rise at 8 percent a year, as they have for the past decade?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d21388850584089890882e9a3a65245\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: No. The build is about getting better infrastructure for roading. Further, I would say that there are a number of studies\u2014the member, as a transport economist, would understand\u2014that suggest that the price of petrol relative to decisions people make about transport modes is inelastic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a2195211f70421f9aab8bf0b00f8a51\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: So what specific evidence does the Minister have that shows that these motorways are the best value-for-money way to improve economic productivity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0e305f700c04568b1ad33358d25695d\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: We are a very long way from the original question, but what I would say is that where there is a reduction in congestion, there is an economic positive\u2014no question about that. If the member wants further proof that New Zealanders think these are good ideas, she needs to look only at the electoral returns from 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221629670ee2ab43d191e0649a1b1ceb9c\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not believe the Minister answered my question, which was about the specific evidence\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200f0638dfc034fefbc8ebe0200d3d7e0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I must hear the point of order in silence, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242945a54353d4fa5a2dbcda432e16858\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: I do not believe that the Minister addressed the question, which was very specific, and it was about the specific evidence that shows that these projects are the best value-for-money way to improve economic performance and reduce congestion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c42ab8344e044c2895f46af9f2bb8c0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the Minister answered that he believed that they were, and that was the evidence that he was basing the decision on. If the Minister, having heard the point of order, wishes to add anything further to it, he is welcome to, but if the Minister feels he\u2014I do not think I can require the Minister to answer further. The member does have a further supplementary, though.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022217af74c0c6f44b7af1f5bdc19db37c0\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister expect the economic impact of borrowing for these motorways to be similar to that in Greece, which also borrowed billions to build new motorways over the past decade; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5903d2cf80f405fb9741c26d13c290b\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: No. I think it is arguable as to whether the situation that arose in Greece was to do with its borrowing for roads so much as it was to do with its extraordinary borrowing for large, monolithic rail networks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279f4885928d0415ebc22e974532244e0\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table this report from the European Commission. It is a strategic evaluation of transport investment priorities, it is the final country report for Greece, and it shows that it spent the vast majority of its money on motorways, not on rail projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6600763d2d9468ab44b9d9a39993c7a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that European Commission document. Is there any objection? There is objection. Question No. 9, Dr Cam Calder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b26771302654b7d805cedfb475cabc2\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: To the Minister of Health\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9f5bd9020b549cb825ace8345aa0c50\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise. Was there a supplementary question on question No. 8? [Interruption] Order! I did not hear the member call; I will take the blame for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225006113229434cbe8c90fde684b5138e\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think that the $8 billion spent on public relations\u2014sorry, that should be $8 million spent\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f3eea3b42c54a7ba0994da1a840f998\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise to the member. Those of us who have not had a slip of the tongue should be the only ones able to cast the first stone. We all do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa06069ddcf04d2a89af47bdf8f7acae\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: It is very easy, Mr Speaker, to make that kind of mistake with the roads\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffe7848faaa346d08f70d591174b4c97\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Let us just have the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aba0f64d2d154b15af792bbc53becb14\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think that the $8 million spent on public relations for the roads of national significance is enough to placate the millions of New Zealanders who are concerned about the cuts to public transport projects, the flatlining of maintenance of local roads and State highways, the underfunding of KiwiRail, and the sheer waste of billions of dollars on the roads of national significance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ee0f729b0584d728fb1c6d04e9883a5\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I completely reject the supposition that the member is basing his question upon. But what I would say is that over the last 24 months I have heard nothing from Labour members other than \u201Cspend more on communications\u201D in a range of portfolio interests I currently have. What is more, if that money had not been spent, that member would be talking about a secret roading plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228326132663f64ec896ef587b1b8d52bb\u0022\u003EBetter Public Services Targets\u2014Supporting Vulnerable Children Result Action Plan\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u00227911a257e3e349edb5f231ccdf3e2df1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227911a257e3e349edb5f231ccdf3e2df1\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What commitments has the Government made as part of its action plan to support vulnerable children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd6ab67e96914ad297d097452adeeda0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd6ab67e96914ad297d097452adeeda0\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is committed to delivering better public services for vulnerable New Zealand children, and this includes giving young New Zealanders a better start in life. The Prime Minister has set four challenges around vulnerable children, and today Mrs Parata, Ms Bennett, and I announced more detail about how we are going to achieve these. Government agencies, NGOs, and Ministers are working together to increase participation in quality early childhood education, build on our record infant immunisation rates, reduce the incidence of rheumatic fever, and reduce the number of children experiencing child abuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022783fda52517a4cf29342f51991654428\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Government achieve these four targets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263f1d51aa9e54c5ea12c0bf964314835\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has already begun. In the document that we released today it sets out a number of the actions that Ministers and their departments, both individually and collectively, will be taking. It is about making sure not only that the Public Service works well but also that the services at the ground level do. For example, we are already seeing significant cooperation between those who are working in the rheumatic fever programme and social workers who then follow up to check with the families on issues of overcrowding and the need for home insulation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb524c4a722740f5a16fe2a1dc6b1998\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that the targets he reannounced today are all set beyond the 2014 election; if so, how will Ministers be assessed on the newly minted Children Result Action Plan, or C-R-A-P? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbe9bda0a17d44c1b1860c9055e21c7b\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Gosh, you certainly needed a university education for that joke, did you not? If the member had read the report, she would have seen that some of those result areas will be achieved well before the election, and although the party opposite may think this is a joke\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224def0ab1eaf445adae3e8c0fb9833ee5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise to the Minister. I assume the question asked was serious. There was no way that members could hear the answer, and that is unreasonable. We are not going to repeat the question on this occasion, but I would ask the Minister to please just finish that answer again, because I could not hear the last part of it at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9bd5019710a48b781c862ec7e813f75\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: This Government takes the issue far more seriously than it appears that others do. What we are\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221754beeb3efd4e0c9520e3cbdca91717\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I think we have had sufficient on that one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022661ffc3d82224806b5f6090810ad1427\u0022\u003EHealth, Minister\u2014Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u002278b41396d04f443888227080f4d3cc51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278b41396d04f443888227080f4d3cc51\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by all his recent statements on health?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u002255b6e424b0ae4764bd8ed7d5064edd50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255b6e424b0ae4764bd8ed7d5064edd50\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Within the context they were given, yes. I also stand by the fact that despite the world\u2019s deteriorating international debt crisis, we have invested almost $2 billion extra into health over our four Budgets. This huge investment is best put into perspective by the OECD\u2019s latest report, which reveals that while the average OECD nation had a nil increase in health spending, New Zealand had the third-highest increase in health spending of 27 OECD nations in the latest year available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c59c2752563240ec9d6d42d375d0e49b\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Given his statement to the House on 15 August 2012 regarding the number of nurses added to the health workforce since coming to office, is he aware of a recent Massey University study that indicated that nearly half of the nurses surveyed were considering leaving because of distress caused by feeling that they cannot deliver the care they want to, because of management pressure to reduce costs, and does he recognise this as a crisis within the nursing workforce, as the survey does?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cea37edd0ac4d5ba618fcb032e3d28a\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I did see a report of that survey. I think our nurses work extremely hard, and I am certainly very pleased to see the member acknowledge that we now have over 2,000 extra nurses working in the public health service since the Government came to office in 2008. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ed24f7758b145fbb23e9aa57d3497f8\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Given his statement of 16 August 2012 regarding additional elective surgical procedures achieved by district health boards, which services is he happy to see the district health boards cut, in the light of reported comments by the manager of surgical services at Nelson Marlborough District Health Board that it was not funded to do all its operations, and had to find resources from elsewhere?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4f0b2a4dc044b33949f600459a30a9a\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: It is true to say that many district health boards did more operations than were set in their health target. In fact, the information that will be released with the health targets will indicate that district health boards put some of their own resources into achieving more operations. We have got to remember that the previous Government put more money into the health budget\u2014doubled the health budget\u2014and got fewer operations on a population basis. We are getting more operations for New Zealanders and, actually, we are getting them faster. I think people are very, very happy with that achievement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f1a8f1d9dcb46ffae03a41d9ddea8d1\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked which services the Minister would like to see cut, given that there was underfunding for the surgical procedures that they achieved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0a0e61b5a324072a53c6054e7f1fc28\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will allow the member to repeat her question, but I will listen very carefully to the answer. I want to make sure that the Minister has not previously answered it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adc04f3faa0d4be1ad758d18b7e1bb82\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Given his statement of 16 August 2012 regarding additional elective surgical procedures achieved by district health boards, which services is he happy to see district health boards cut, in the light of the reported comments by the manager of surgical services at Nelson Marlborough District Health Board that it was not funded to do all the operations and had to find resources from elsewhere? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244c1f8f94f1c484096707276ebf49801\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: It is up to district health boards to decide how they spend their budgets. What I can say is that the Nelson Marlborough District Health Board got $12 million extra last year, on top of funding available for electives, I understand. It also got an additional $12 million this year. So district health boards are getting more money, providing more services, have more doctors, and have more nurses. Actually, in the toughest economic times that a country has faced for generations, that is a great service for patients from the New Zealand public health service and the John Key - led National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ccea6cf6782486da5141f8b7ea9d0ef\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Given his statement of 15 August 2012 in respect of the Voluntary Bonding Scheme for doctors, nurses, and midwives in hard-to-staff regions, can he confirm the statement of Rural Women New Zealand, which said that the scheme has failed to attract any rural general practitioners, and that the problem of access to general practitioners in rural areas is now urgent? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caec8890bc374deaa0b422d21c6ae24c\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I do not agree with those comments, because the Voluntary Bonding Scheme is beyond just doctors. I do not think we should have a health service that looks only at doctors. We have got many general practitioners who have enrolled in the scheme. A large number have applied and are being considered. We have also used the scheme to support additional midwives in rural areas. I think that it is working out very, very successfully, and the level of interest would indicate that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002262d029c678f8497fac628865826471c5\u0022\u003EHousing New Zealand Corporation\u2014Tenants\u2019 Fraudulent Behaviour\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u002264e31b8c6a9344b39f49c40e4482a7af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264e31b8c6a9344b39f49c40e4482a7af\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: What is Housing New Zealand doing to identify and address fraudulent behaviour by some tenants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u002281a836516244417eafbeed5242e990c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281a836516244417eafbeed5242e990c8\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E An overwhelming majority of Housing New Zealand Corporation tenants appreciate their homes and abide by the rules. However, there are a small minority committed to accessing homes and subsidies that they do not need. Since July 2011, 312 tenancies have been ended following investigations, and 120 tenants successfully prosecuted for fraud. There are a further 121 cases currently before the court, and 594 under active investigation. I commend the Housing New Zealand Corporation for taking action so that families on our waiting list who truly are in genuine need have the home and support they require. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c78b410a1efe4dc79c907e2e2d72e629\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: What kinds of activities have tenants been undertaking that have led to action being taken against them? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f40f895a209346778750e71d7aa646ad\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I will give two examples. They include an Auckland tenant who had over $100,000 in a bank account for 7 years, which he never declared. He is now a former tenant. He has been prosecuted and convicted and is now awaiting sentence. He has repaid the corporation $25,000. A Dunedin tenant failed to declare her partner, claimed income-related rent, and operated an escort service from her tenancy. The tenancy was terminated by the corporation. The tenant was prosecuted for income-related rent fraud, sentenced to 100 hours\u2019 community work and 12 months\u2019 supervision, and has a Crown debt of $7,500 established. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cd339c10a9e944a4b44403c6e25183a6\u0022\u003EAfghanistan\u2014Safety of Provincial Reconstruction Team\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u00222757c3fd219c40deb81f99bc18fa28b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222757c3fd219c40deb81f99bc18fa28b0\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: What assurances, if any, has he and the Minister of Defence received about the safety of the New Zealand Provincial Reconstruction Team in Afghanistan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022803133204de5473ca8660a44b35ad6f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022803133204de5473ca8660a44b35ad6f4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I have received assurances that our provincial reconstruction team is well trained, has the best available equipment for the operating area in accordance with the judgment of the New Zealand Defence Force, and has a full range of enabling support from our International Security Assistance Force partners. Having said that, Governments past and present have been advised that Afghanistan poses risks, and it is a very volatile environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc2b6aae11474651a28e70aec143fa32\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: What additional efforts have been made to secure mine-resistant vehicles, other than the request made to lease such vehicles from the United States?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cfd6401723747a2b2ad1878068d2c9b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is possibly worth putting a bit of context around what I think the member is asking. Back after the death of Tim O\u2019Donnell a review was done about safety equipment and what might be best used. The Defence Force, as I understand it, in theatre had some discussions with the Americans about possible use of mine-resistant ambush protected vehicles. Those vehicles, as it turned out, were not available, but post doing that there was a full review done of what would be the best equipment for our men and women in Afghanistan. They looked at, amongst other things, light armoured vehicles, mine-resistant ambush protected vehicles, and potentially other vehicles as well. The decision was made that on balance of all risks involved, the best equipment was the light armoured vehicles for the conditions our men and women would face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cd1b3afd7664f99afee1756b0efd198\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Will the New Zealand provincial reconstruction team be required to carry out patrols in Baghlan Province without the use of mine-resistant vehicles, given that American troops need special permission to use Humvees because of their vulnerability to improvised explosive devices?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7a9b6bda7cf469b89a38b985c0dac89\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: That is an operational matter for the New Zealand Defence Force. I will leave it to answer that. All I can say is that in whatever duties that are undertaken by our men and women in Afghanistan, they do so with the New Zealand Defence Force making sure that it takes into consideration at all times providing the maximum safety and security it can, within the context of a war zone. I would also make the point that at no time since we have been the Government has there ever been a request from the New Zealand Defence Force for equipment for our people in Afghanistan that has been declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022266905af05214854bb77d954ba20b24d\u0022\u003ERichard Prosser\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Government give an assurance to the public that an emergency exit plan is in place for our forces in Afghanistan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d7620d032cc4e5a82f49af62f0d9977\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure I understand fully what the member means by an emergency exit plan. What I can give the member an assurance of is that the New Zealand Defence Force will be looking at the transition process as we look to leave Afghanistan very carefully. It will work on making sure that we provide the safest exit for our people, but I would just simply hasten to add that it is a dangerous environment and represents one of the more dangerous parts of the operation of the provincial reconstruction team since we have been there in 2003.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf16d3d0437a4fd1b906e9858242845b\u0022\u003ERichard Prosser\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was about an emergency exit plan, not about the plan for the existing exit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f20e4b930d504e17993e3c4cc0e6cdd0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister in his answer said he was not sure what the member meant by an emergency exit plan, if I heard the Prime Minister correctly. If he is not sure what the member means, he cannot answer further. Unfortunately, the member does not have any more supplementary questions today, but it would have warranted a further supplementary question under normal circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b46ad05e99694a67aee3198a1936e103\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he announce 2 weeks ago that the New Zealand provincial reconstruction team would commence patrolling in Baghlan Province, signalling that intention to opposing forces, when he did not have what the Minister of Defence calls a clear understanding of the roles defence personnel would be doing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a3539aa8a364aa88f148a404e0cdb4b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I reject that proposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228efd05f321b843108cb8d479b1d59396\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229049e35c3f49412ba806c29e03d0f5af\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2b0f171c96f4448bc1faa7fc7d60881\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2b0f171c96f4448bc1faa7fc7d60881\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. I have to say that in all of my 25 years in this Parliament, I have never experienced a time when the accusation of being on \u201CPlanet Labour\u201D has such relevance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EIn 2008, as we went to the general election and the world was facing prosperity and growth for all, a whole range of things were committed by all political parties\u2014by the National Party and by Labour. We got elected at the end of that year, and suddenly something called the global financial crisis crossed across the whole world. I can tell you that a number of countries across the world have gone into the absolute depths of depression, and have gone into areas where they are almost bankrupt. We see them daily in the news, places in Europe like Greece and Spain and Portugal. But the Labour Party here keeps going back to \u201CHow come National said when it was standing in 2008 it would deliver the following?\u201D. That is why the accusation is that you must be living on \u201CPlanet Labour\u201D, because on \u201CPlanet Labour\u201D the global financial crisis just did not happen. On \u201CPlanet Labour\u201D the earthquakes in Canterbury just did not happen. So we should all be in this beautiful world of peace and prosperity, and the rest of the world is all booming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EWell, even in total regards to all of what has happened to the world, I have to say the track record of what this Government has delivered over the last 3\u00BD years or so has been outstanding. The rest of the world has nearly all been sentenced to life imprisonment and, relatively speaking, this nation has got away with a couple of weeks of periodic detention. Quite seriously, it has got away with almost no damage at all. In fact, in many cases this country has been growing, has been expanding, and has been doing better than anyone could have predicted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EMembers of our team today in the general debate will be picking up on things like the fantastic delivery that we have had within the health sector. Daily Tony Ryall almost does not get enough time\u2014in fact, we feel like we want to move extensions of time\u2014to tell members of this House and the country how many more surgical operations are being delivered across the country. It is nothing short of outstanding, and that is while we have had to use tight, and in many cases zero, budget increases. It is an outstanding testimony to what he has done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EOther members of our team will cover things like the outstanding record in law in order, where I notice huge drops in the crime rate\u2014a 15-year low in the crime rate. Again, how else could you want for better at a time when you think everything is tight financially, and people are struggling? It is often the time when you will see more offending, but no, not under this Government. If you look at the outstanding results in the education field, in the early education field, they are just spectacular. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EBut I want to concentrate for my few minutes that I get today on just a few things about the economy, because I think the economy is the central driver of all those other achievements. The first thing I want to do is ask, are New Zealanders actually better off, or are they worse off? Well, let me give you the answer. The after-tax average wage has gone up by 20 percent since 2008. The average tax, the average tax wage\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286205f5c50fd4da98065f01d9540444f\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: After tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225398cafbc2ad43ef981cacb5cf59ec63\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014after-tax wage is up by 20 percent since 2008. That is spectacular. In fact, my favourite, my personal favourite, is this one: three-quarters of all income earners in New Zealand pay no more than 17.5 percent tax. Three-quarters of all income earners pay no more than that. That is my personal favourite. But wait, there is more. There is a lot more. New Zealand has the lowest inflation since 1999, meaning that the everyday cost of living is increasing at the slowest rate that it has ever done in the last 12 years. That is an outstanding result. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EInterest rates\u2014look at this\u2014are at their lowest in 45 years. Do you know what that means? That means for just an ordinary family with a $200,000 mortgage, they are paying around about $200 a week less in interest than they would have been, and it would be a lot more than $200 if that lot were in control. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EMy colleague Steven Joyce gave me a little road test, I think it is called. The Labour Party has released the road test for the economy. It has come out with what is called Labour\u2019s solutions, and I really do not want to promote the Labour Party too much, although it does need it. But I would love to go through\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdbcc266421847a1ac12ca340a9aef07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdbcc266421847a1ac12ca340a9aef07\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I move an extension of time so Maurice Williamson can tell us about May Wang and Jack Chen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7838fe96639441f90a35d86262783e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7838fe96639441f90a35d86262783e9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is the member seeking leave for an extension?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4ec16970d9a4ab98ae60b3f3d0629d9\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcb81322bb664fe4927027a041096da1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is being sought for the member to have an extension of time. Is there any objection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9f9d00324334c459c43915cefc0b823\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: You can\u2019t seek leave for someone else. It\u2019s a longstanding tradition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a4e385a630c443dbb9566157166e180\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, I apologise. The member is quite correct. I should not have done that. I apologise to the House for that. I did not want to be unhelpful to the right honourable gentleman, though.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5f48da2c81846d28607ef8de8a7530d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5f48da2c81846d28607ef8de8a7530d\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Well, that was Maurice Williamson\u2019s long list of excuses as to why this economy is going down the tubes. You know, Mr Williamson, this country has experienced under this Government the worst economic growth since World War II. More than under any other Government since World War II\u2014Labour or National\u2014it is by far the worst. What we see, Mr Williamson, is 53,000 people every year going to Australia because there is no hope in this country. The figures that came out just 2 days ago show that that rate is still increasing. Just imagine what our unemployment figures would be if we did not have the safety valve of the Tasman crossing. In the last 3 years 150,000 people have crossed over. If you added that to our unemployment figures today, we would be in triple figures, almost, in terms of unemployment. This Government does not offer any real hope for New Zealanders and that is why they are leaving. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EAs I go around the country and I am speaking to people, the one thing that I hear from people talking to me\u2014and it is a recurring thing\u2014is the lack of confidence they have in this Government in education. Our education system in New Zealand is one of the best in the world. You look at the statistics around the globe, and we are consistently in the top 10 for reading, for numeracy, and for science. Yet this Government is determined to undermine that. Let us look at some of the mishaps we have had\u2014if we want to call them that\u2014over the last few weeks. The quality of teachers\u2014actually, we agree with the Government on this. Quality of teachers is really important and we have very good quality teachers. But you do not raise classroom sizes just to fund the quality of our teachers or increase the quality of teachers. The amazing thing about that is that this Government still believes that actually raising classroom sizes is a good thing. The reality of this is that it just felt it did not sell it well enough. It is not the fact that the whole proposition is completely wrong; it just did not sell it enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThe Government has stripped $60 million out of teacher support and in-service training. It has done that over the last 3 years, but we are still not seeing alternative proposals or any sort of policies put up to further its claim that what we need to do is increase the quality of teachers. Instead, what we have got is a series of ad hoc gimmicks around the area of education. The latest is charter schools. After we heard from this Government about the quality of teachers, charter schools are going to be allowed to exist without teachers having qualifications. They do not actually need qualifications to be in charter schools. They do not need to have any training. It is extraordinary. Now you could have teachers in the \u201CMaharishi Yoga School of\u201D\u2014whatever\u2014\u201CTranscendental Meditation\u201D setting up some sort of school, and they do not need to have classroom teachers. They could teach creationism or whatever Mr Banks would love them to teach. They do not have to teach to the curriculum. For God\u2019s sake, why do we have a curriculum? But what they can do is they can make a profit. They can take the taxpayers\u2019 money and make a profit out of it. Well, is that not just great\u2014a profit-making charter school that does not have to be absolutely accountable to anybody, and that is supposed to raise our education standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThe other day I went along to one of my local schools and I was speaking to the principal there. The principal said to me: \u201CThe number of children who come along to our school who have an English comprehension age of a 3-year-old is overwhelming.\u201D Yet at year 6, when they leave that school, they are all up to speed of where they should be. Do you know the interesting thing about that? The interesting thing about that school is that if you measure that school at year 4, it would be a failure under national standards. This is a school that is taking kids, and taking them through 8 years in the space of 6, yet it is going to be branded as a failure. Those kids are going to be branded as failures and the teachers are going to be branded as failures, yet it is a fantastic school in my electorate. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec16463f516547fb9f3c37bf72884016\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec16463f516547fb9f3c37bf72884016\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E As a backbencher one could be forgiven for being a bit apprehensive at having to stand and speak so soon after the Leader of the Opposition. Then I realised I have been here longer than him; I am in my second term. All I can say is that that was a desperate speech from an invisible man who has disappointed almost everybody in this country except for Goliath and the other Davids in the Labour Party. I saw a glint in David Cunliffe\u2019s eye. He is ready for another shave, so soon, tomorrow morning. You see, the Leader of the Opposition, and his party, are out of touch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House we are focusing on what matters for New Zealanders and on the big picture: building a more competitive and productive economy\u2014one of the four main priorities we have set in this term of the Government. What are we going to do in this area? It is so important that we focus on the things that will help New Zealanders do more for themselves. We have said that over the next 4 years, as you have heard today in this House from our Deputy Prime Minister, there will be $8 billion dollars of spending on infrastructure in New Zealand\u2014$8 billion of infrastructure spending that will help us become more competitive, help us become more productive, and help our businesses do more for an exporting country. We have said we want to focus on and spend more on research and development and science and innovation. The Budget delivered this year will give us $385 million of extra spending on science and innovation over the next 4 years. By 2015-16, $1.3 billion every year will be spent by this Government on research and development and science and innovation. We are focusing to double the business spend on research and development to 1 percent of GDP over that period of time, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWhat will that do for us in this country? This will be focused spending on research and development and infrastructure, not money thrown around willy-nilly as we saw over 9 years of a Labour Government, but focused on the important parts of our economy where New Zealanders can expect a return, and where New Zealanders can expect bang for their taxpayer bucks. This is going to be important to a number of areas in my electorate and other electorates around the country in forestry, in dairy, in agriculture, and in geothermal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EForestry is very important to our economy. We produce more trees than many other parts of the world. These trees that are grown produce jobs and are the backbone of many of our provincial areas and their economy. In my electorate we have an organisation called Scion. It is at the cutting edge of some of the work that is done around this research and development. It is doing a fantastic job on our behalf and as a member of the Government I am proud that we are backing them to do so much more in forestry, in dairy, in agriculture, and in geothermal. I want to repeat that\u2014$1.3 billion of taxpayers\u2019 spend that the Government will put in place by the year 2015-16. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIf we focus on infrastructure\u2014we are talking about roads, and we are talking about building productivity, and competitiveness, which returns more for our exporters\u2014what will this do? It will mean jobs, investment, and growth. In the Bay of Plenty, where we grow more trees than in many other parts of New Zealand, where we have hard-working farmers, dairy farmers, and we have others who produce things to export\u2014and we have excellent MPs, every single one of them, that is right; every single one of them is a hard-working elected constituent MP\u2014we have a road of national significance. I call it the Te Puke bypass; others call it the Tauranga direct road. What it does is it links the provinces to a port. It is a 23-kilometre, four-lane highway from Paengaroa in my electorate to the electorate of Tony Ryall, and to Te Maunga in the electorate of the hard-working Minister Simon Bridges. The $567 million for that road, in 2015 costs, will produce a return\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef7b6559d8f042dcb7bc46858ff4561c\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: What a waste.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e6a1a0f477940a683ef96e93194f55a\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: The member opposite says what a waste. \u201CWhat a waste.\u201D, she said. The return journey will be reduced by 24 minutes. The road was started in 2011. It will be finished by 2016. What that means\u2014to the member opposite, who occasionally shows up in the Bay of Plenty, and who says what a waste of money\u2014is that all of the things that we produce, all of those trees, all of those other things, will be delivered to our port more quickly so that those businesses can be more productive, so that they can sell them overseas, and be more competitive. They will reinvest that money in jobs. I say to that member opposite, who lives somewhere near Hamilton, who has no idea about this important road in the Bay of Plenty and backing the people of the Bay of Plenty, that this is a Government focused on the big picture.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022 data-id=\u00222efee50971df47a9b80a3d3958ad57b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222efee50971df47a9b80a3d3958ad57b7\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BANKS (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E In the 30th Parliament we had Bill Rowling as the Leader of the Opposition. In the 40th Parliament we have got David Shearer as the Leader of the Opposition. Bill Rowling was so good that he was knighted for services to the National Party! In those days we had a powerful Labour front bench. I sat there, and we had a powerful Labour front bench. Today the Labour Party is led by the weakest leader of this Parliament in 10 Parliaments since the heady days of the ruthless, cut-through Wallace Rowling from down in Nelson. That is a statement of fact. Now we have got jokers on that side of the House in the 40th Parliament who want to be the leader. This side of the House does not care whether David Shearer is the leader or \u201CBill Cunliffe\u201D is the leader. They are both as bad as one another. Labour has got no plan for the economic security of this country. It is the poorest leadership, it is the poorest focused, and it is the poorest performing Labour Opposition this Parliament has had in my parliamentary lifetime, which is 10 Parliaments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EI want to say to the Leader of the Opposition, who I think is still at this very moment of time the hapless David Shearer, that partnership schools will give an opportunity to the 20 percent of young New Zealanders who are out of school, out of training, out of work, and out of hope. Why would the Labour Opposition in the 40th Parliament be opposed to that? Can anyone on this side of the House tell me? Why would it be opposed to that? Any idea? No idea. Why would it be opposed to giving young people hope? Why would it be opposed to giving young people opportunity? Why would it be opposed to giving young people the dignity of work? What would the Labour Party do? Let me quote from Joel Klein. The Labour Opposition in this 40th Parliament might learn something, if its members obey Speakers\u2019 rulings\u2014on page 62 of Speakers\u2019 Rulings\u2014and listen and breathe through their noses. This is the proposition: \u201CI remain convinced that the best cure for poverty is a good education. And I\u2019m equally convinced that pointing to poverty as an excuse for why we fail to properly educate poor kids only serves to condemn more of them to lives of poverty.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EThese people in the 40th Parliament on the Opposition benches want to consign 20 percent of our young people to poverty, helplessness, and hopelessness without the dignity of work. This is what Joel Klein also said: \u201CI say to\u201D\u2014[Interruption] Listen to this. This is very important. Listen to this, and do not forget page 60 of Speakers\u2019 Rulings: I say to the \u201Cstatus-quo, poverty-is-destiny crowd\u201D\u2014[Interruption] Listen to that. I say to the \u201Cstatus-quo, poverty-is-destiny crowd\u201D that that is what the Opposition members stand for: poverty is destiny. We say that poverty is wrong. We say poverty is young kids out of school, out of work, out of hope, and out of dignity. We are going to give them the opportunity to engage. So I say to the \u201Cstatus-quo, poverty-is-destiny crowd\u201D that with your support, partnership schools will make a difference where it is most needed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EPartnership schools will make a difference where it is most needed. Even the Greens know that 20 percent of our kids have been written off. The Greens even know that partnership schools can work, because a proposition around partnership schools is already in place across the country. But in this 40th Parliament, with the weakest leadership of the Opposition, with the weakest front bench the Opposition has had in the 10 Parliaments I have been here, Opposition members have got no idea. They have abandoned hope for the young. They have written off 20 percent. They will not support a proposition that has worked all over the world. We say to them: get real or stay there for the 50th Parliament, and I will be back in the 50th Parliament to see that you are still there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f3d202c097b43e4bb2e7b307c4ce108\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The level of interjection has got too high. I did not want to interrupt the honourable member\u2019s speech, but a continuous barrage of sound is just not acceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u0022698cb0044d4646bf873abef9422222cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022698cb0044d4646bf873abef9422222cd\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E The crowd over there are shouting their heads off. Why? Because they do not want this country to hear the good news about John Key and the jobs he is creating. That is what is going on. I was in my electorate, in the Wairarapa, on Monday, carting around a Russian. He was Russia\u2019s equivalent of David Frost. His name was Sergey Brilev. I took him to Cameron Stuart\u2019s dairy farm in Te Ore Ore, near Masterton. As Sergey was watching 700 cows being milked by one man, I said to Cam: \u201CWhat do you think of this bugger Key? Do you think he\u2019s doing a decent job?\u201D. Cam responded: \u201CJohn, he is brilliant. I voted for him, and I\u2019m going to vote for him again. Why? Because he knows what he is doing. He is managing this country astutely. He is fiscally savvy, John. We are going to vote for him because he\u2019s creating jobs.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EWhy would anybody leave this country? Why are people saying that 50,000 people are leaving this country? Because they can see this Opposition and they think: \u201CWhat a pack of losers. Why would you stay here for that carry-on?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EJohn Key is about creating jobs. That is what he is doing, and he is doing it in my electorate. He has created fiscal responsibility in Government. If I think about somewhere like Dannevirke, I recall that, under Helen Clark\u2019s administration, the \u014Cringi meatworks closed down. It lost all its workers. Well, along came Allan Benbow from Metalform in Dannevirke, and now there are 100 employees in that plant, and they are doing all manner of things. What is more, Benbow and his company, Metalform, manufacture in Dannevirke\u2014the manufacturing capital of the southern hemisphere\u2014and have built over 1,000 wheelchairs, which they have exported to the States for US$25,000 each. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EUnder Helen Clark, what happened in Norsewood in our area? We had a sock and jersey - making factory. What happened under Helen Clark? It closed and jobs were lost. What has happened under John Key? Norsewear is producing again, it is back up making socks, and it has 10 employees. Why is that? Because John Key and Bill English are doing a really good job. Why will people stay in this country? Because we have good public services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EWhen I became a member of Parliament in 2005, 30 percent of the constituents who came to my office in Masterton were complaining about the lack of health services. What has Tony Ryall done? I do not get one such visit a year now, because Tony Ryall and the local district health board chief, Bob Francis, are doing a superb job, along with Leanne Southey. They are creating an environment where really good services are being provided to the Masterton community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EI see what is going on in areas like Greytown, where I live, where, under Helen Clark, the Bouzaid and Ballaben factory closed. What has happened now? Under the leadership of John Key and the financial situation he has created, we have now got ourselves a new supermarket, employing 50 people. That is 50 new jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EWhy are people wanting to work and come off benefits in this country? I will tell you why. It is because the after-tax wage is up 20 percent since 2008. We have the lowest inflation rate, 1.3 percent, since 1999, meaning that the everyday cost of living is going up more slowly\u2014the slowest rate in 12 years. Interest rates, as my colleague Maurice Williamson said, are the lowest in 45 years. People are paying off their mortgages. Under John Key, we have moved from spending $1.10 for every dollar earned, which was the inheritance from Helen Clark and her colleagues. What are we spending now? We are spending 98c for every dollar earned. People are saving. They are paying off their mortgages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EWe have created 60,000 new jobs in this economy in the past 2 years. Three-quarters of income earners are paying no more than 17.5 percent tax. Speaking of tax, do we remember Labour back in 2009 and that fellow Nash, its spokesperson on finance at the time, saying that dairy farmers paid no more tax than pensioners? Well, what use was that comment? It got Labour voted out of office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EI am very proud to get up and stand to support this John Key Government. He is doing a superb job for the people of the Wairarapa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u00228a51dafc040c419c879f0f2d5ba70402\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a51dafc040c419c879f0f2d5ba70402\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E That was John Hayes, the member for Wairarapa. If there are 60,000 jobs and he has his way everyone will be making socks, but he will need more socks than those that are manufactured in Wairarapa to address the burgeoning unemployment problem. National has done nothing to solve unemployment. It must do more, especially in the provinces, and that member knows it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EIt was laughable to listen to John Banks earlier as he criticised this side of the House. Well, I tell you what: I would have this front bench any day than a member who has resigned himself to a one-member party. Under the MMP review, he is gone. Even if the threshold is lowered to 3 percent or 2 percent, he is gone. The comments coming from that member, saying that partnership schools will benefit the 20 percent of young people who are currently not achieving in the system, are laughable. Parents out there are holding meetings because they are concerned at the way in which National is systematically destroying our education system, and that is a concern to us. We know that charter schools will not make a difference. In fact, in 2009 Stanford University did a comprehensive report of about 16 schools across the states of the USA, and it showed that the outcomes in terms of education for minority and indigenous groups are variable. It does require significant private investment. Attrition has its place in terms of why some charter schools are doing better than others. The deliberate cherry-picking of some students to lift the performance, value, and outcome from those schools also has its place, so to bring that type of a model into the New Zealand system is absolutely a disgrace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EIt will destroy what is at the heart of a high-performing New Zealand education system, which is one that delivers to kids based on the expectations sent to parents. That is a very important point that I want to stress. The way that National is going, it is driving a steam train right through the middle of our education system and undermining the things that really work. We need schools in New Zealand to be self-managing schools. International evidence shows that why we are presenting in the higher quartile of the OECD charts is because we have self-managing schools. Parents and communities are involved in setting the expectations of outcomes for their young people. They are involved in ensuring that the type of education is relevant to their children at a very local and personal level, so that they can monitor and work with schools to deliver those outcomes. It is the truth that, sadly, too many young people are not achieving in our education system, but charter schools are not the solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E All charter schools will do is privatise the profits and socialise the loss\u2014privatise the profits and socialise the loss. We need to be concerned if the six applicants sitting on the table right now come from private companies, which have a long track record of privatising the profits and socialising the loss. Members across the House know this. They know that at the meetings held in their communities in South Auckland, west Auckland, and Christchurch, and continuing throughout the whole country, parents are concerned because what they do not want put at risk is the quality public education system, where every child, no matter what their circumstance, has the opportunity to succeed in any school throughout this country, and we back them. We back those parents because we believe every school should be a good school. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EWe believe that the teachers in front of our children should be registered, unlike National. Through its charter school model, it is saying \u201CActually, we don\u2019t need registered teachers in front of our children.\u201D In fact, there is a difference between qualified teachers and registered teachers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289747ba84b8c471aa5616c0f7e8df983\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba86b363a8894fb0b6be64041b14968f\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: If there is, then I challenge that member, the member for Tauranga, to take the next call and stand up and explain to the good members of Tauranga what that difference is, based on the recommendations coming out of the Government with regard to giving greater protection around children, and strengthening the regulatory process so that sex offenders are not in front of our children. I challenge the member for Tauranga to get up, take the next call, and explain to the people of Tauranga what the difference is. We think there should be registered teachers in charter schools. We think that if that Government wants to run that particular line, then it should be a uniform standard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EBut, on balance, actually we do not need charter schools. On balance, we should be putting all our effort into strengthening the public education system. Parents are also concerned because they were told by National that parents deserve really good data about the performance of their young people. What do they get? A variable set of data coming out of national standards and being put up on a website, with the Minister herself acknowledging that that data is inaccurate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u0022febedcc328884de7bf54840966030339\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022febedcc328884de7bf54840966030339\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to speak in this general debate, and I am absolutely proud to be part of a National-led Government that is getting on with the job of building a brighter future for New Zealand. We are not being distracted by sideshows. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI want to spend some time just talking about some really exciting health initiatives that have been happening in the health sector and one in particular that began in Mount Roskill, in my first term in Parliament. A group of migrant doctors, predominantly refugee doctors, had been meeting at one of the NGO groups in Three Kings for some years. It was like a support group, really. They were frustrated that they could not get any support for a bridging programme. They wanted to get recognised and registered with the Medical Council of New Zealand, but were really frustrated in their attempts to get support. That was until I got involved and I got Tony Ryall involved when he became the Minister of Health. He sympathised with their plight and he supported them. Health Workforce New Zealand got involved and the rest is history, as they say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EColleagues, NZREX is the Medical Council\u2019s registration exam that every foreign doctor has to sit if they cannot get registered by any other route. The NZREX preparation programme began in April 2011. There have been three intakes, of up to about 10 foreign doctors each\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThere was an example given to me of a woman who came to New Zealand from Russia 12 years ago. She had married a New Zealander and had permanent residency. She had a son. At that time in her life she did not feel she could go through the registration process, so she trained as a nurse and qualified, but never ever gave up her dream of practising as a doctor. She heard about the NZREX programme and was accepted into it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EShe left her family for 3 months to work at Auckland City Hospital. Her days began at 8 a.m. and ended at 5 p.m., and that left the evenings for studying. She learnt about the Kiwi-orientated patient approach. Actors were involved in role playing. She passed successfully at the end of 3 months and is now practising as a doctor. Of the 10 on the intake, of which she was one, nine passed that exam and the 10th person eventually passed a few months later. So 10 out of 10 passed. That was a hugely successful intake, as have been the other successive intakes. Of those 10 students, two were from China, three were from Iraq, two were from Sri Lanka, one was from India, one was from Fiji, and, of course, this lady was from Russia. It was a win-win for all and it is particularly successful. We are a multicultural nation, and our health workforce needs to represent the community that it serves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EAnother huge and exciting scheme, which I think has been successful, is the Voluntary Bonding Scheme, which was set up in the last term. It has been going for 3 years. That has been phenomenally successful. There has been a total of 2,300 health graduates who have been accepted on to this scheme, and they have come from all over New Zealand. This year we have accepted 510 health graduates. They are not all doctors. There are 43 doctors, 42 midwives, 411 nurses, 13 radiation therapists, and one medical physicist. It is about keeping our graduates in New Zealand\u2014that is what it is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe Rural Medical Immersion Scheme is also proving successful. It is keeping our graduates in New Zealand. We know that if graduates work in hard-to-staff areas and settle in there, they will stay there, and that is what it is all about. It has been hugely successful, and I am grateful that the Minister of Health has had the vision to implement that type of programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI am particularly pleased to see the patient cancer pathway improved for patients in New Zealand. We want to ensure that they receive good quality treatment that is timely. There have been four key areas that have been worked on. The first one is cancer wait indicators. Audits have shown that waiting times on the cancer patient pathway were very variable, and the different measurements are now being recorded. Let us face it. We know that when measurements are recorded and they are published, people step up. They start talking to their colleagues, asking: \u201CHow can we achieve this target?\u201D. And guess what? It happens. That is what cancer wait-time indicators will do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThere has been work done on tumour standards, which is about getting the best-practice services across New Zealand. There are about eight tumour standards. They include bowel, breast, gynaecological, and melanoma, to name some of them. There is an improvement in multidisciplinary meetings, and that is key to providing excellent care for patients having cancer treatment. But the best news of all, to me, is the introduction of patient pathway cancer co-ordinators.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u00229db0c39b673a4a2396f523fa986bafcb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229db0c39b673a4a2396f523fa986bafcb\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E One of the highlights of this debate so far has to be the bizarre contribution from John Banks, which we heard before. When he has not got amnesia, he is becoming a soothsayer. He confidently predicted that David Shearer would be the Leader of the Opposition in the 50th Parliament. Well, I have got news for John Banks: this is the 50th Parliament. This is actually the 50th Parliament, so he might well be right, but I think even more telling was his very confident prediction that he, John Banks, would be back in the 50th Parliament as an MP. I think he knows that he is toast at the next election, because all he could be confident about was that he would be present in the 50th Parliament. That is the one we have got right now, so there is a bit of news for John Banks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThe other bit of news for John Banks is a picture that I think tells us everything we need to know about charter schools. It is doing the rounds on Facebook at the moment. It has got a picture of John Banks on it, and it says \u201CCharter schools: one rich white man wants to set up schools for poor brown kids to make a profit for his friends\u201D. I think that is all we need to know about charter schools. That is exactly what it is, and that National Party is backing him all the way. That is the agenda of John Banks. He is interested just in his mates making a profit out of our education system. This is nothing to do with improving achievement in education. If it was to do with improving achievement in education, then that Government would want the best-quality teachers in front of every classroom in the land. What we know is that what that Government really wants to do is have unqualified staff\u2014I am not going to even call them teachers, actually\u2014in charter schools. If they are not qualified to teach, they are not teachers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230792edbbde740f2b73c80fa64f3551f\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9976315182d4c5dad97c3f39eadc9e4\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: They are not teachers if they are not qualified to teach. This idea that any old person can get up, understand the art and the magic of teaching, and actually improve successful educational outcomes for our children lives only over there on the Government benches. Every parent up and down the country knows that this Government is completely out of touch with what is required for improving the quality of our education system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to arguing for better-quality education, then the arguments for that opinion are to be found on the Labour benches\u2014not on the National Party benches. We know that, deep down in their hearts, those members want to increase class sizes. That is their big answer to improving the quality of our education. They want to increase class sizes, but only after they have dumbed down the teaching profession. They started it in early childhood education. That is where they started. They cut the funding for qualified teachers in early childhood education. They started dropping the standards at the very beginning for the youngest children, who need it the most. That is where they started. They did that in 2010. They think they are pretty clever because they got away with that. But parents up and down the country were not prepared to let them get away with that ridiculous idea that somehow increasing the number of children in a class, causing their teacher to have many more interactions with many more children, would actually be better for all of our children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThey are the only ones who believe that. They still believe it\u2014they still do believe it. I think the blank faces opposite tell me everything I need to know: they think they just got the sell job wrong on it, actually. They still believe that increasing the number of children in the classes of our primary, intermediate, and secondary schools will somehow improve the quality of education. That is a nonsense. They are now completely exposed on the nonsense about what they think about education. To them, it is all about cost. They see education as a cost. Here, in the Labour Party, we know that education is an investment, and not any old investment, but one of the best investments that any Government can make in the future of its country. It is absolutely clear, because of that Government\u2019s poor performance in education, that its members do regard it as a cost to be contained, not an opportunity to be invested in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThey also misled the public on their intentions around league tables. What was their former Minister of Education saying before the election last year? Anne Tolley said: \u201CI want to make it very clear to the member that the Ministry of Education will not be publishing league tables. I will say that again to the member: the ministry will not be publishing league tables.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022071f6bd68e7743c59099edd0316245a3\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef7d72e50b6c4b77aeab7079833bf909\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: That was Anne Tolley. She is just agreeing that she said exactly that. What is the Government planning to do now but publish league tables?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00222dfcf0ff68c54a458a71ebfa6f4196ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222dfcf0ff68c54a458a71ebfa6f4196ca\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E What a pleasure, what an honour, what a terrific thing it is to be able to stand here today in this general debate as part of the John Key Government, which is getting on with the job for New Zealand and for New Zealanders. And what a pleasure, what a privilege, what an honour it is to be the member for Coromandel, because in my part of the world, in Coromandel, where the previous speaker, Sue Moroney, occasionally visits her holiday home\u2014we see her occasionally passing through\u2014the people of Coromandel are enjoying the benefits and privileges that come from having a Government that is focused on getting the economy right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EIt has been a wet, damp, miserable winter in parts of Coromandel. In fact, there has been an awful lot of rain about, but the businesses and the farmers of Coromandel are getting ready for spring, and they are getting ready for a prosperous and bright summer. Part of that will be to make the most of the new, wonderful Hauraki Rail Trail cycleway. I had the very good opportunity to spend some time with the Associate Minister of Tourism, Chris Tremain, earlier this year when we opened that cycleway. It runs from K\u014Dp\u016B through to Waikino, on to Waih\u012B, and then down through to Paeroa and Te Aroha. As I left Thames earlier this week I could see that the concrete was being poured on the way into Thames township. What a great thing that will be, because it brings jobs and opportunity to a part of the world that needs jobs and opportunity. And it is going to be used not only by hundreds of local Coromandel people but by families, children, and visitors from all over New Zealand and all over the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI know that the projections are that there will be something like 52,000 people a year using that cycleway, and already, without having had the first summer, usage is twice what was expected. So in towns like Te Aroha, Paeroa, and Waih\u012B, businesses are already getting the benefit of visitors spending, buying food, wine, coffee, and what have you, but also they are staying overnight. It is just a terrific opportunity, because in Otago, where the cycleway has, of course, being going for a lot longer, it has something like 20,000 people a year using it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f00cfac14f9c4a748e38b57880826a03\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: $7 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa73c13121f44b0fb91e37743d561567\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and it is worth $7 million a year. So if we have 52,000 people, imagine what that is worth to the people of Coromandel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EYou know, the local shopkeepers and cafe owners are already saying that business is up, business is booming, and that people are buying their coffees, muffins, and what have you. Indeed, just the other day I had a terrific email. It was actually addressed to the Prime Minister, and I was kindly copied in by a constituent. It said this sort of thing: \u201CA group of 20 of us from Whangamata recently did the Waikino to Paeroa trail. We stopped for morning tea at Waikino at the train station, and then we went on to Te Aroha, where we stayed overnight.\u201D Twenty people staying overnight in Te Aroha\u2014that is a big deal for the local moteliers. They had a meal and then they cycled back the next day, after having brunch. He says in his email: \u201CLater this year a group of us are also planning to ride the Timber Trail.\u201D So people are getting out and around and about and doing this stuff on the national cycleway. It is a great thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThere is also other innovation. I want to just wind up by saying that Dr Simon McDonald at Triodent in Katikati runs a terrific business, employing 80 people. This is a business that is only 8 years old that is exporting $20 million a year\u2014export dollars\u2014and making wonderful high tech products used in the dental industry. They are little things. If you have had any crown work done on your teeth, you would know about how expensive that is. I held in my hand, when I visited his factory just a week or two ago, 2,000 units in a small, little box. I held 2,000 of them, something like $200,000 worth of export dollars, in my hand, and not a single 40-foot container in sight\u2014not a single 40-foot container. That is smart, innovative thinking. That is smart, innovative manufacturing going on in Katikati in the Coromandel electorate as we speak. It is a business that is niche, that is taking its product to the world, and that can compete against international competitors, because it is smart, innovative, and very talented. And what do 80 jobs mean to a town like Katikati? Well, they mean opportunity, they mean school rolls go up, they mean businesses are thriving, and they mean the cafes and restaurants are doing well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThose are just a couple of the wonderful, tangible examples of what is happening under a John Key - National Party Government, which I commend to this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u0022354ca3b3bd5347bdb1ef5549890b440f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022354ca3b3bd5347bdb1ef5549890b440f\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand has faced some major blows in recent years, whether it is the earthquakes in Christchurch or the Pike River mine disaster. These events, I think, have perhaps seen many of us take the focus off the events in Afghanistan and New Zealand\u2019s longstanding commitment to the events in Afghanistan. This is not just a New Zealand phenomena; it has actually been happening in the United States as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EHowever, the recent tragic events mean that we must once again look at what we are doing in Afghanistan, and how our military serving in Bamian Province can be brought home safely. Many other parliaments debate these kinds of military deployments on a regular basis\u2014the German Parliament debates it every year. So we think it is important that New Zealand should have this debate. We were very disappointed that the Government blocked having a debate on this issue yesterday, and that the Speaker did not give an urgent debate on this issue yesterday. We think this Parliament should be debating this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EI want to make it clear from the outset that we consider that the current provincial reconstruction deployment should be the last. It should come to an end. The provincial reconstruction team\u2019s deployment in Bamian is easily New Zealand\u2019s most significant and dangerous overseas deployment since Viet Nam. Now is the time, we believe, for the Government to signal an end to our involvement in the Afghanistan war immediately, and withdraw our troops as soon as possible. The ongoing loss of New Zealand life is too high a price to pay for a war we cannot influence, and where the situation for our troops is increasingly dangerous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe role of the New Zealand force is no longer focused on simply reconstructing local communities and building schools, but rather on patrolling a dangerous part of the country, where our troops are being increasingly drawn into counter-insurgency operations that pose more dangers to them. New Zealand has had an active commitment in Afghanistan since 2001, so withdrawing our troops over a decade later is therefore in no sense cutting and running, as some members of the Government have suggested. We, New Zealand, have made a significant commitment, but the Green Party believes that the price now is too high to stay. The overall situation in Afghanistan is beyond our control, and sending more New Zealand soldiers to the north-east of Bamian Province in particular, at this time, is indefensible and too dangerous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe Government has signalled an end to our commitment next year. I understand it has reached an agreement with the US Government to end in April. This is simply bringing forward the end date that was previously announced, but the Greens believe we should bring it forward further. Of course, we would not be the only country making that decision to bring forward our withdrawal from Afghanistan. The Netherlands withdrew in 2010; it now has police there but it does not have troops. And, of course, the new French Prime Minister, Francois Hollande, has signalled that he wants the vast bulk of French soldiers out this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe overall outcome of the war in Afghanistan is beyond the control of New Zealand troops based in Bamian Province. According to news reports, we have about 150 soldiers there. What is interesting is that in 2010 the then defence Minister, Wayne Mapp, was interviewed, and he said that we had about 100 soldiers there, and that we were planning to draw down from September 2011. Instead, it seems like we have increased the number of troops that we have in Bamian. This is after the current President of Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai, in early 2011, called for the withdrawal of the foreign provincial reconstruction teams, in an interview with the BBC. So it was the President of Afghanistan who was calling for the withdrawal. Unfortunately, this advice has not been heeded, and rather than drawing down the provincial reconstruction team in Bamian, the New Zealand Government instead has increased our commitment there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EI think it is important to note that the initial premise of our provincial reconstructions team was that it was not ostensibly a fighting force. The original Beehive statement by Mark Burton in 2003 clearly stated that the provincial reconstruction team was not considered a combat unit. For many in New Zealand, the danger faced by our soldiers has perhaps been underplayed. We have not realised the level of danger that they are exposed to, but now that is clearly there for all to see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EAs our provincial reconstruction team has been pushed further out from the centre of Bamian Province, so the danger to our soldiers has grown. The Taliban presence within Bamian and surrounding provinces has also increased in recent years. New Zealand\u2019s losses in that province occurred in the north-east part of it. Earlier this month, the Government took a Cabinet decision to widen even further the area of operations of our provincial reconstruction team. It seems to us that it is time for Cabinet to revisit that decision. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u0022923e1e1ae59f4dfabc64de0ffae293f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022923e1e1ae59f4dfabc64de0ffae293f7\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E While on the subject of Afghanistan, can I just please pass my sincere condolences to the families of the fallen soldiers, and thank them for the commitment they have made to this country, and indeed to world peace and the efforts on the global stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EWhat is it that sets this National Party apart from those in \u201CLabour Land\u201D and from across there in the watermelon patch? Well, I can tell you that the main thing is that we are just getting on with the job, responsibly managing the Government\u2019s finances, and working to our plan to grow the economy. What does that require? It requires discipline and it requires focus on the things that matter. That is about making a difference\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbc528b857ed4e0e99b3dd6135336c90\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Who wrote this rubbish?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d0d8d0efdf64ff6875ef21861bc4e00\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: I wrote it, Mr Mallard. I wrote it. I can give you a copy if you would like. That requires staying on task for what matters and knowing what we stand for. Whereas in \u201CLabour Land\u201D, of course, those members do not know what they stand for, they do not even know who their leader is, or who they want it to be, for that matter. They do not have any discipline, unless you count Mr Shearer\u2019s conversation with the media the other day, that he would tell members like that that he should keep his trap shut, and keep it behind closed doors\u2014unless you call that discipline. They do not have a plan, other than to oppose. That is all they can do, and that is all they want to do. They do not want jobs, they do not want the economy to grow, because they want to be able to turn round and say to New Zealand: \u201CPlease elect us, because there hasn\u2019t been any growth in the economy, and there are no jobs.\u201D Well, New Zealanders have woken up to that, Mr Mallard. They have woken up to your self-serving agenda, and that is why you are sitting on that side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThere is one thing that they will do, though\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223eb5184366a842aca9f912566f627a31\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Speaker does not have a self-serving agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a7757589a5b4496aa9e9d312031beef\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Speaker, I am sure you do not. But some members on the other side of the House I am sure do. There is one thing that we have been told that they will do. Mr Parker said that they will get rid of the P\u016Bhoi motorway extension. In fact, a week ago in this House, he said that they would can it. This really is something of great concern to people in Northland. It is ironic given that they were up in Northland not that long ago having a wee Labour Party retreat, a few photo opportunities, and some fish and chips at the Maunganui fish and chip shop. I bet they did not get up on soap boxes and talk about canning the P\u016Bhoi project, on that particular visit. No, they save that for the safety of this place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003ESo how do I know that that road is so important to Northland? I know that because, as a new National Party MP, I facilitated economic summits in Northland to look at how we could grow the economic opportunities in that part of the world, because there are many, and because the social dysfunction and the welfare dependence that so many will talk to is really the result of an underperforming economy, and is not reflective of an economy that has much potential and is something that should be mobilised. So over the last couple of months I have facilitated the summits. The aim was to build a vision and a plan for the region that would identify where the enablers and constrainers were in achieving that goal. Over 440 attendees, from 14 sectors across the Northland economy, visited and participated in those summits, and they found that 89 percent of the enablers and constrainers they saw fell into nine core themes. What was at the top of that list? It was infrastructure. Infrastructure was at the top of that list, and at the top of the infrastructure list was the P\u016Bhoi motorway extension. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003ENorthland is a region with immense potential and a very bad road. Northland has immense potential for aquaculture, forestry, minerals, oil and gas exploration, geothermal power, development of the M\u0101ori economy, tourism, manufacture, agriculture, horticulture\u2014the list goes on. It is a long list. That road is a vital piece of infrastructure in Northland, and it has been called for for years. Everyone in that part of the world knows that it is a trade and economic highway, not a \u201CHoliday Highway\u201D, as the \u201CLabour Landers\u201D would have you say it is. The National Government knows how important that piece of infrastructure is. The member for Rodney behind me and the member from Whangarei certainly do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EWe are committing to helping businesses to grow themselves and to improve the economic potential. We are committed to Northlanders. This party is committed to New Zealanders. We are committed to ensuring that New Zealand has a brighter future, and that is what we are getting on with doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u002244effe5db78e488da2dcc3319c7aa458\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244effe5db78e488da2dcc3319c7aa458\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We on this side of the House are enormously proud of our public education system. It has a wonderfully high standard that is recognised internationally, and it is something to be celebrated, not dumped on like this National Government is doing. We need to celebrate the fact that we have good teachers and staff in our schools, in our early childhood centres, and in our institutions and universities. But one of the saddest things I have heard in the last couple of weeks was at the meeting of educationalists and teachers who told me that they are losing the passion for teaching because of the dumping that is going on from this Government, the madness that has descended from this Government that we have seen through most of the year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EFirst of all, it was the class sizes debacle. Of course, the Government thought the parents would not notice that because it was having a go at the teachers, and it thought that the parents would side with it on that. Well, of course, parents did notice, and they made a big fuss about it, and the Government was forced to back down. Then we had league tables, and we have still got league tables\u2014another part of the madness that has descended on the education system from this Government. And now, thanks to a cup of tea and a pretty dirty deal, we have got the latest madness, which is charter schools\u2014or am I supposed to call them partnership schools now? They are charter schools, which no\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278be0c988ebb4e26b4b85b5c6820af77\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: John Banks\u2019 folly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f59fd955e4f4c61b090cb26ca2d0f0a\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: John Banks\u2019 folly. Schools that no one wants, no one needs, except the deluded members of the ACT Party. I was interested to go back and have a look at what happened and what the ACT Party said when it launched its policy. It was poor, poor old Dr Don Brash who launched it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ba503c1a0854d8995ded34ead1266cd\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: The old hapless dried arrangement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fc5c792e4324cb595a1994660678bba\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: The hapless Don Brash, who launched the policy for charter schools at a school that is in the area in which I work as an MP, in Browns Bay, the Corelli performing arts school. In his speech, he compared our education system to McDonald\u2019s. He compared it to McDonald\u2019s. He said: \u201CIf the education system was the restaurant industry, these\u201D\u2014talking about private schools like Corelli\u2014\u201Cwould be the specialist suburban eateries faithfully serving their unique local markets. The rest of the education system would be McDonald\u2019s, serving the same stuff consistently across every location. The head office being the Ministry of Education, sets the menu \u2026 the performance standards, being the exams, the d\u00E9cor, being the bricks and mortar of the school, the pay rates, being the national teacher pay scale, and the way customers are served, being the teaching style.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ESo what he was telling us in that speech is that the 97 percent of kids who go to State schools deserve nothing more than McDonald\u2019s, and that actually the 3 percent who go to private schools are going to get a lot better than that. Try telling my kids, who actually have a master\u2019s degree and doctorates now, that because they went to State institutions they have been let down. Well, actually the only thing that has let them down is the fact that there are no decent job opportunities for talented young people in New Zealand. They have left, along with the landslide of other Kiwis who we are seeing heading to the other side of the world for better work and better wages. They ain\u2019t coming home any time soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EDavid Selfe, the principal of the Corelli Academic School of Arts, addressed the ACT Party conference before the last election, praising the setting up of the charter schools. There is a very close link with Corelli, so I thought I would tell the House a little bit about what is going on. It claims to be the only charter school in New Zealand, and it charges around $18,000 per year for senior students. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022357eefed8eb64d419b574109b6638273\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c0aa33ec3464e0b89415ec89e2c7ba0\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Eighteen thousand dollars per year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f04be75acbeb48cf87449ed8fc83f2eb\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Is that boarding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022525b287c94af40d28c81b0125f3bd393\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: It is in Browns Bay, too. It is not boarding. It is for performing arts. It is in Browns Bay, so it is not in South Auckland or Christchurch, where the poorer kids are, like ACT says it wants to be. But the interesting thing about Corelli is that it is now taking a large number of its own parents to court. They are taking them to court for allegedly breaking their scholarships. These kids\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b418a226cf7c4f18b90dfb48422af90e\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: So the kids are leaving?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c80d0021ed294aaca3c439178d6048e6\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: The kids are leaving, and they are getting sued. The parents are being sued. The kids went to school to get an education, to gain university entrance, and to further their talents in the performing arts, which is what this school is supposed to be about. But they did not get the education that they were expecting. Some of them found they were not on track to get qualifications they signed up for. The subjects they were expecting to do were cancelled. Qualifications were not offered in their place, they were not up to university entrance standards, and there were not enough classes being offered. So parents pulled their kids out of the school, and they have had to take them elsewhere to get their education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EOne of the parents has told me that their child is now a year behind in her schooling. She has to catch up with her peers. Her parents are being sued. What an advertisement from the poster child of the charter schools model. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224ec8e911a7a1492e81bd116900b8a9b5\u0022\u003EExclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002269fdf4591d6c4d50bc7492bf99a8280c\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000283\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 21 August.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228dfde523771540f5a195e2c64b08d75f\u0022\u003EPart 3  Objections, appeals, and enforcement (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u002264dc3cd96a334b5da920c01d465e41ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264dc3cd96a334b5da920c01d465e41ee\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora t\u0101tou, n\u014D reira e te Whare. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Good afternoon honourable members. The House is in Committee on the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill, also the Regulatory Reform Bill, the Trade (Safeguard Measures) Bill, and the Taxation (Annual Rates, Returns Filing, and Remedial Matters) Bill. When the Committee last considered the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill, we had reached Part 3. The question is, therefore, that Part 3 stand part. I call the honourable member Jacqui Dean. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00229e746f4c69ca4a80a6ae19812f527192\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e746f4c69ca4a80a6ae19812f527192\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Good choice. Good choice, Mr Chair. Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak on Part 3 of the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226ebc99bf79f4a608b4d2290e54b68b3\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am sorry to interrupt the member, who I think genuinely believed that she had the call, but my understanding is that when this debate was last interrupted there was a member in the middle of a call, or getting towards the end of their call but had not concluded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c4f86e130a342d8b473401ae59ebb12\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, all I can say to the honourable member is that according to the drill sheet that I have here it said that we had reached Part 3, and the question is that Part 3 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eee4aa347de94368af6a2686fbf64de7\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I may be able to clarify. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c23ecfdcb1a9424caaee98c2f915259e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Please do, Mr Robertson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b2950cee864497a9480a724ced8d6f2\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I was the member on my feet at that time. I understand that I had 5 seconds remaining on my call, during which time I would have asked the Government to support Charles Chauvel\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 95. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b07533b4d9ff4b2dabf84497ae562cde\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I guess that that is a good one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248017bb830bf46228ddfccf3d7a09f10\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: The Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill Part 3 is where the rubber effectively hits the road with this piece of legislation, because it is the part that deals with, or provides for, objections to the Environmental Protection Authority and also appeals to the High Court on questions of law. Subpart 2 of Part 3 provides for enforcement of the bill by providing for the Environment Court to issue enforcement orders, and that is under clause 113, and also\u2014and I am about to refer to the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 100 here\u2014offences and penalties under clause 124 and clause 125, which, of course, with the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper have increased from $600,000 through to $10 million. It also deals with the appointment of enforcement officers under clause 129. So it is a really important portion of the exclusive economic zone legislation, because it provides the backstop. It provides the accountability for any activities that are consented under this new regime in the exclusive economic zone and the extended continental shelf. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EJust for a bit of context about why this is so necessary, I think it is probably good for the Committee to remember that the current regulatory regime has got some significant gaps in it, which means that there are a number of activities that are currently occurring inside the exclusive economic zone that are, in effect, unregulated. So the assessment of the effects of activities\u2014that is, other than fishing in the exclusive economic zone\u2014on seafloor habitats and on biodiversity, which might be as a result of seabed mining, is lacking. There is a gap in the assessment of the effects of activities on biodiversity in the water column. That refers to the effects of seismic surveys on marine life. None of those considerations are currently taken account of in legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EAlso, there is a gap in the assessment of the effects of new activities on existing interests\u2014for example, the effects of a petroleum platform on surrounding fishing and shipping\u2014and of the management of the cumulative effects of all activities in the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf, as they are regulated under different and multiple regimes with a differing and variable ability to take into account the sorts of activities in decision making. So there is a gap there. In fact, I would argue that there is quite a yawning gap. This Government took action back in 2006, when Cabinet proceeded to the development of a legislative framework to tidy up the gaps in the regulations around activities in the exclusive economic zone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWhy are these gaps a problem? There is not terribly much that happens in the exclusive economic zone, and we have been told that and we understand that. So why are these gaps a problem, and why is it so necessary to have inserted in this bill parts like Part 3? This part provides for objections to the Environmental Protection Authority, which is the determining body of activities, along with appeals to the High Court on points of law, and also provides for and describes offences and penalties. Why is that so important, and why is it a critical part of this exclusive economic zone bill? Well, there is, of course, the potential for unregulated activities such as we have now, could have in the future, and did have during the term of the previous Labour Government to cause environmental harm. That environmental harm could impact on a lot of things: on marine life, on marine habitats, and also on marine biodiversity. Because of the nature of some of the activities that occurred, occur, and might occur in the exclusive economic zone, some of those impacts could be quite severe\u2014for example, oil spills and the destruction, due to dredging of the seabed, of significant benthic communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThere is also\u2014and I think this is pretty critical and germane to this bill\u2014no mechanism for ensuring public participation in decision making around these activities. So it is beyond me why Labour and Greens are opposing this bill. I can only come to the conclusion that Labour and the Greens in this House and in this Parliament are quite satisfied with the 9 years of the previous Labour Government and the state of affairs where there are yawning regulatory gaps in this legislation. They are opposing this exclusive economic zone bill, and I can only conclude that they actually do not care that much about what is happening in the exclusive economic zone. Maybe because it is so far out to sea, they do not particularly care about what happens out in the exclusive economic zone. Well, I can assure the Committee that this party does, and that is why this party has brought this exclusive economic zone bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EJust briefly on Part 3, the enforcement of offences and penalties is very closely described in some detail. If members would have a look at clause 113, they would see that it is quite explicit in what it requires people who are undertaking activities in the exclusive economic zone to do. For example, if there is \u201Can order made by the Environment Court or an Environment Judge\u201D, it has the effect of requiring the person \u201Cto stop doing something\u201D. That is just a few words in this bill, but what that might mean is quite a significant penalty and impact on some activity in the exclusive economic zone. Part 3 is a significant and substantive part of this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbfc6a6ee9054ad3b2041809629d35ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbfc6a6ee9054ad3b2041809629d35ea\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I think it says more about the member who just taken her seat, Jacqui Dean, than it does about members of the Opposition if, after all the time we spent together on the Local Government and Environment Committee, and all the speeches in this Chamber, she still does not understand why Labour and the Greens oppose this piece of legislation, the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill. She said that it is because the exclusive economic zone is far away\u2014it is far away. This was someone, of course, who did ask a submitter whether the ocean could be described as a deep-water marine environment at the select committee, so I have to say that Jacqui Dean is being very disingenuous when she says she does not understand why we oppose this legislation. We oppose this legislation because it simply is not consistent with our international obligations and it does not provide the level of environmental protection that the community wants and that we should be expecting in an environment as precious as our marine environment, which so much of our economy relies on. We contacted the Minister for the Environment, Amy Adams, and we tried to work with her to find a compromise where we could get a settled cross-party agreement, so that there would be certainty for everyone. We were rebuffed on that. That is the reality of what happened, instead of the fiction that we have just heard from Jacqui Dean. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EPart 3 of this piece of legislation is around appeals, enforcement orders, and abatement notices. One of our big concerns about this part is that unlike under the Resource Management Act, where submitters or opponents are able to take a case to the Environment Court on points of fact where they disagree with an issue, where new information has come to light, or where they do not think the decision was right, they can take it only on points of law to the High Court under this exclusive economic zone legislation. As I said in my speech yesterday, a jurisdictional line has been drawn between our territorial waters and the exclusive economic zone. It is only jurisdictional. Many, many other pieces of legislation in New Zealand operate across both perfectly adequately. Whether that be fisheries legislation, whether that be health and safety legislation, or whether that be maritime legislation, they do not have any problems differentiating between our exclusive economic zone and our territorial waters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EApparently this is one piece of legislation where it is absolutely impossible to get consistency between the two. We disagree with that, and one area where we do disagree is in the taking away of the rights of people to access the Environment Court on points of substance. I think it is a false economy to think that you are going to save a lot of time and money by doing this. One of the things the Environment Court has done\u2014and there are plenty of protections in there to avoid vexatious claimants\u2014is taken a lot of that negotiation and a lot of that mediation offline and out of that process. Because all parties know that there is potential for that to happen, and there is that recourse, a lot more effort is put into making sure that obvious issues are dealt with up front and that obvious stakeholders are consulted, unlike what we saw up on the East Coast with Petrobras, where local iwi heard about it on the 6 o\u2019clock news. That is not adequate. What we know is that under Resource Management Act legislation it does provide an incentive for people to try to sort out as many of those issues as they possibly can, before they get to the actual legal process. We note, of course, with some concern that the Government is now moving to remove that ability under the Resource Management Act as well, and talking about these plans of regional significance, which will no longer be able to go through that full court process. We are concerned about that, as well. To parties who are voting for this bill because they like more alignment with the Resource Management Act, just be aware of where the Resource Management Act is going. Suddenly, being aligned with the Resource Management Act may not be as flash a thing as it used to be in the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EWe have Supplementary Order Paper 95, in the name of Charles Chauvel, to delete the clause that states you can take an appeal only on points of law, and also to replace \u201CHigh Court\u201D with \u201CEnvironment Court\u201D. One of the interesting things about this is that when we come to the issue of enforcement orders, which the member Jacqui Dean was talking about, because of the experience and the knowledge held there, it is actually the Environment Court that deals with that. It is actually the Environment Court that issues the notice. It is the Environment Court that upholds it. The Environment Court, of course, has a lot of expertise in this area, and we just think that perhaps it should also be the court that is dealing with appeals when people have concerns about marine consents that have been granted, or, indeed, where an applicant has concerns that the requirements that the Environmental Protection Authority has put upon them are too stringent. So it should be there for all parties. To create this kind of new set of goalposts just because we have crossed over an invisible line in the ocean, which has nothing to do with resource management allocation, has nothing to do with science, and has nothing to do with environmental integrity\u2014it has nothing to do with any of that; it is just an invisible jurisdictional line\u2014and to suddenly say that the goalposts are a lot further away once you step over that line to us does not really make an awful lot of policy sense, unless what you are trying to do is streamline these projects and make it harder for communities to raise concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI want to put that into context of the reality that a lot of communities face. We are already looking at local government, which is struggling to make a lot of these decisions. It may be the first port of call in some instances for communities that have concerns about applications that are going to the Environmental Protection Authority, where it might want its local authority to submit on behalf of the community. I look at the Gisborne District Council. It is a unitary authority with a low rating base. It does not have a lot of money to access the kind of research that these companies can access. There is not a lot of money in my community to access that research, particularly within some of the time frames that have been given. Because it will be up to the Environmental Protection Authority as to how it sets the timing of the hearings, there is a concern, again, that that timing could be so short so that these communities will not be able to even access those organisations that would be able to provide them with some help and with some assistance. The reality is that everything is weighed against communities that have concerns right from the beginning. We would like to have seen this legislation actually try to incentivise engaging with communities, not a piece of legislation that essentially could see stuff being pushed through against a community\u2019s will when it does not have the resources to access the kind of research that some of these companies\u2014which, remember, go all around the world doing these projects and have big research teams, because this is what they do on a regular basis\u2014are able to access. They have access to vast amounts of money to produce that research. We would just like to see a little bit of a level playing field so that communities are not completely left out of the loop and are given a much higher threshold to jump over than the applicants that are applying to carry out the activity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI just want to quickly touch on the issue of penalties. We are very, very pleased to see the dramatic increase in penalty. I really wish it could have been done at the select committee, and we would not have had to bash our heads against the wall asking why the penalties were so low. It would have been nice to have been done at the select committee, but it is great that it is being done here, and I want to thank the officials for all their work on this part, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI come back to a core point, as well, which we will address in Part 4, which is the ability to actually collect the money and to ensure that it is there. We could have a penalty of $1 billion, but if these companies are simply going to fold or if we are unable to require bonds and insurance up front to ensure that that liability can be met, then it really does not matter what the penalty is. There were concerns, again, at the select committee about that, but we will come to that in Part 4. We have a Supplementary Order Paper in my name and there is also a Supplementary Order Paper in Gareth Hughes\u2019 name to increase the rest of the penalties, because, of course, there are a range of penalties under the bill. We are only increasing one of them here. As we have said, we absolutely welcome that increase in penalty. It will provide a much bigger disincentive than the previous penalty, but, again, we really would question\u2014and I am not sure whether the Minister in the chair is able to have the answer to this; she is the Minister of Conservation, so I am sure she is taking an active, active interest in the exclusive economic zone legislation\u2014why none of the other penalties are being increased, because we also felt that they were inadequate. But we are not going to be churlish around the issue of the main penalty, as $10 million is a very, very, very drastic improvement on what was in the bill as it came to the select committee. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00221342e227b39b42c2997340b73dae7e51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221342e227b39b42c2997340b73dae7e51\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to correct some of the statements that Jacqui Dean made. I think she was more than mischievous in not accurately characterising the Green Party\u2019s position on this bill, the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill. We supported the bill at its introduction because there is a huge gap in the environmental management of our oceans\u2014the fact that we do not have legislation that provides for a consenting regime. But we have opposed it and continue to oppose it because of the major shortcomings of the bill: the fact that there is no hierarchy for matters of national importance, the fact that Treaty obligations are not well dealt with, and the failure to adequately provide for the protection and preservation of the marine environment in line with the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIn relation to this part, Part 3 of the bill is about what can happen after the Environmental Protection Authority makes a decision. It relates to objections to the Environmental Protection Authority\u2019s decisions, appeals to the High Court and beyond on points of law, and enforcement. It is this fact that there are no appeals to the Environment Court and that submitters and applicants can appeal only to the High Court against a whole or part of an Environmental Protection Authority decision that is a major issue, because that is constraining access to justice\u2014not having the full scope of appeal rights to the Environment Court. This was a deliberate policy decision by Cabinet, and we understand that it was made because Cabinet believed that the Environmental Protection Authority was already making decisions at the national level and was seen as being an expert body. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBut, as the Royal Forest and Bird Protection Society noted in its submission, clause 97 of the bill provides for applications that deal with nationally significant cross-boundary issues\u2014that is, across the 12-nautical-mile limit\u2014to be dealt with by a board of inquiry, not by the Environmental Protection Authority. So surely this is already signalling that the Environmental Protection Authority does not have the same standing and expertise as other decision makers\u2014the fact that you get this delegated to a board of inquiry. The Green Party supports Supplementary Order Paper 95 in the name of Charles Chauvel because it would provide for appeals to the Environment Court instead of restricting it to the High Court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe experience with the Environment Canterbury (Temporary Commissioners and Improved Water Management) Act is instructive, because that legislation has disallowed appeals to the Environment Court and restricted them to points of law appeals to the High Court. Environment Canterbury has just notified decisions on the Canterbury Regional Policy Statement. There has been a slew of appeals from various parties, technically on points of law, but a lot of those appeals actually raise substantive issues of public policy around environmental management, and, in that case, the appropriateness of policies in the regional policy statement about whether they are adequate to control the allocation of water. Those sorts of public policy and public interest issues are much better dealt with by the Environment Court, given its specialist expertise, given the substantial technical skills of the commissioners, who sit alongside the judiciary, and given the court\u2019s experience with mediation, such that a lot of cases are resolved before going to a formal court hearing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EI think the downplaying and setting aside of the role of the Environment Court in this bill is very short-sighted because it means that the focus is going to be very legalistic in the High Court, where you do not have that specialist expertise that the Environment Court has. I think we need to reflect on the fact that the Environment Court succeeded the Planning Tribunal. It has dealt with, and been fundamental in, developing the case law around particular bits of the Resource Management Act\u2014the meaning of particular clauses and the legislation there. Similarly, this bill and the substantive issues about how our oceans should be managed would benefit from the Environment Court\u2019s expertise and from allowing appeals to be taken there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe Environment Court is also much more accessible than the High Court to lay people, so by restricting it to the High Court you are again constraining the ability of communities to engage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe Environment Court is not bound by strict rules of evidence. It has powers of inquiry, which, when you are dealing with public policy issues like resource management and management of the oceans, are very useful. Given the substantive public interest issues that will come up in appeals, in our view Charles Chauvel\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper should proceed because it reinstates those appeals to the Environment Court. I think doing away with the Environment Court is incredibly short-sighted. I think it reflects this Government\u2019s focus on pushing development through as quickly as possible without taking significant account of environmental impacts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe other matter I would like to comment on is clause 125 and the proposals in Supplementary Order Papers from Labour and from my colleague Gareth Hughes to increase those penalties. Like Moana Mackey said, it would have been good to see that done in the Local Government and Environment Committee, because Opposition members certainly raised this several times, but we were defeated there. The problem with the bill as it is currently drafted is that the penalties are the same as the maximum fines in the Resource Management Act\u2014$600,000 for corporations and $30,000 for natural persons, plus there is a provision for continuing fines. But here we are dealing with major corporations with significant financial clout getting involved in activities that are very risky. There is an obvious need to substantially increase the penalties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe Minister for the Environment\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 100 is a very useful step in the right direction, because it would increase the fines to $10 million for any offence involving a corporation. But that should be higher, and Gareth Hughes\u2019 Supplementary Order Paper 102 provides for a more realistic penalty of $12 million, because we are dealing with oil and gas prospecting companies and the potential consequences of something like an oil well blowout are catastrophic. So it is very appropriate that the fine should be $12 million rather than $10 million. We recognise that even when you set fines at this level, of course they cannot compensate for the ecological consequences and the economic consequences of such a catastrophe. We will be supporting the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 100 on Part 3 if Supplementary Order Paper 102 does not get the support of the Committee. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5839de4539b4571891671ba104bdffd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5839de4539b4571891671ba104bdffd\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call on Part 3 of the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill. I just want to start by making a couple of comments. The first is to acknowledge why we are here. We know that there is a regulatory gap. We know that our exclusive economic zone and continental shelf offer significant opportunities. The question is, after a significant period when Governments did not move to fulfil this regulatory gap, whether here today parties in Parliament will support legislation to be able to do that. I am very pleased that we have seen the M\u0101ori Party and the New Zealand First Party shift to support this legislation, and I think one of the key reasons for that was there has been a Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EOne of the key aspects of our Supplementary Order Paper 100 addresses this issue, this Part 3 of the bill. If we look at Supplementary Order Paper 100, which has been put to the Committee, it has been supported by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment. In fact, the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment has been very clear that she now supports this bill. One of the key aspects of Supplementary Order Paper 100 is to significantly increase the penalties. When you look through all of Part 3, everything that this part is about is saying that we want to decrease risk to our environment and ensure that there are adequate enforcement powers and adequate penalties to be able to do that. This Supplementary Order Paper massively strengthens that by taking it from $600,000 for the maximum penalty to $10 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EAdditionally, if you look through some of these clauses, we have had a great contribution from the community, and we have really strengthened the law as a result of that. I want to make a special mention of one of the submitters that came to the Local Government and Environment Committee and, I think, had a real impact on the committee. That was the Taranaki Regional Council. It has been undertaking activity in terms of marine consents in coastal waters for years. It came to our select committee with a very practical suggestion around the fact that there needed to be greater enforcement in terms of abatement notices, and our select committee acted. When you look at the provisions in the bill that deal with this\u2014clause 122A right through to clause 122D\u2014it really shows that we are serious about enforcement. But we are also serious about when the system might see that something is going wrong\u2014about there being an ability for people to ask questions, or to ask for activity to be looked at or stopped. That really shows right throughout this part, whether it is the penalties, the abatement notices, or even if we turn to some sections around enforcement and the powers of enforcement officers\u2014clauses 129, 130, and 131. They show a huge amount of power, in terms of being able to search vessels and get information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ESo what I think this part is actually about is giving a lot of confidence in terms of our environmental management regime to say: \u201CYes, we do believe in exploring greater economic opportunities, but we want to ensure that there are some powers in there to prevent and mitigate risk.\u201D That is a very sensible piece of legislation for this House to be passing. I want to acknowledge those parties that have realised that the changes through Supplementary Order Paper 100 are significant, and that have seen that the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment supports them. The M\u0101ori Party and the New Zealand First Party have taken practical measures to show their support for addressing this regulatory gap, and, ultimately, making our environmental regime stronger. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00225bad398b067b472493a50dac22b1b585\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225bad398b067b472493a50dac22b1b585\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to take just a brief call on the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill, partly to respond to that speech we have just heard from Nikki Kaye, and partly to ask the Minister in the chair, the Hon Kate Wilkinson, a question. I think, in fairness to the previous speaker, everybody in this House throughout the debate has acknowledged the importance of filling the regulatory gap that there is. There has been some disagreement among parties about how we do that, about the extent to which we need to have consistency with our international obligations, and about the extent to which we need to have consistency with our domestic law, such as the Resource Management Act. There has been a shift from the Government in that regard, which we welcome on this side of the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIf we are going to use Part 3 as the example of what Nikki Kaye has just said\u2014she mentioned the importance of the community, and the importance of people having confidence in the system\u2014that is the very reason why we have got an amendment in place around the question of appeals, and whether or not appeals can go to the Environment Court, because that is exactly the point of giving people the opportunity to have a say. Remember, under this law, appeals can be only on points of law. They cannot be on facts, and they cannot be on new information. If the member is serious about wanting to create a law that gives the community a say, and that ensures there is community confidence, I do not see how opposing the Supplementary Order Paper that we have tabled to bring the Environment Court back in, Supplementary Order Paper 95, would do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI think it would be good for the Government to stop and think and to listen to, for instance, the contribution from Eugenie Sage just now on what role the Environment Court can actually play in helping develop law in this area, because it is quite clear to anyone who has been following this debate that there will be significant dispute around some of the things that have been raised in this bill\u2014for instance, the meaning of the phrase \u201Cfavour caution\u201D, or whatever you want to look at. There will be issues here. The Environment Court has actually played a very constructive role in establishing the body of law in practice with the Resource Management Act\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee1ec7cedf564fae8f3a01e7db881189\u0022\u003ENikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: There are appeals around to the Environment Court, around abatement notices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5b06b25a61e42d8a54cd07e6ea738cc\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is the point. But specifically in clause 103, on the question of appeals, that is why we have made that change. I mean, this is a genuine thing. I am not saying that the Government does not care about this; I am just saying that there is a better alternative, which we know about as a result of the Resource Management Act, that would facilitate the thing that the member just told us she was concerned about, which is the involvement of the community and the ability to build up that body of law that will give people confidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI appeal to the Government to have a look at the Supplementary Order Paper that exists on this, and to consider whether or not it could support both broadening the scope of appeals to be able to be on matters of fact as well as on matters of law and bringing the Environment Court back into that phase, because I do believe that that will make for better law in the long run in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe other matter I wanted to just quickly raise was around the question of penalties, contained in clause 125. As I think I said in my earlier contribution on this matter, we welcome the fact that the Government has increased the penalty for someone committing an offence under this bill to the large figure of $10 million. That is great, but there is now an inconsistency created in the law, because the following provisions of clause 125 cover what happens in the event of a continuing offence, when somebody continues to break the law. That is defined quite clearly under clause 125(6) where it says: \u201CThe continued existence of anything, or the intermittent repetition of any actions, contrary to any provision of this Act is a continuing offence.\u201D\u2014so there is a very clear definition of what a continuing offence is\u2014the Government has rightly said that this is such a significant area that it has to set a proper deterrent in place. It has to set something that is commensurate with the scale of what will be going on in the exclusive economic zone. It is $10 million for an offence\u2014that is great. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut then we come down to clause 125(2), (3), and (4), and we have fines of $10,000 a day for a continuing offence. It is now completely out of whack. It is $10 million when you break the law, and then we drop all the way down to $10,000 a day. If it is a company\u2014and these are large companies that are involved in this\u2014that is hardly a consistent or commensurate penalty for a continuing offence. So I welcome the fact that the Government has decided to amend clause 125(1). It has done exactly the right thing, which, as my colleagues in the Local Government and Environment Committee have noted, was something that Opposition parties said often, much to the concern of the Government members, who did not seem at that point to agree with us. They do now. So why, then, not back Supplementary Order Paper 103, in Moana Mackey\u2019s name, or, indeed, the Supplementary Order Paper in Gareth Hughes\u2019 name, Supplementary Order Paper 102, which actually make those penalties for a continuing offence more appropriate? They are out of whack at the moment, and I would like the Minister in the chair or a Government member to be able to rise now and tell us why the Government will not make changes to the continuing offence penalties, given that it has made those changes under clause 125(1). It just does not make logical sense. The Committee is in agreement here that we need to have penalties that fit the crime\u2014as it were\u2014and have a deterrent effect. That is happening in one part of clause 125, but then it completely fails in the rest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn clause 125(2) at the moment, the first stage of what happens with a continuing offence is a fine not exceeding $10,000 for every day. We are proposing in Supplementary Order Paper 103 that that becomes $100,000 every day from thereon. After that, when it is a summary conviction and it carries on, the penalty is $1,000 per day under clause 125(3). We would like to see that go up to $100,000, and, if the offence is a continuing one, to a further fine not exceeding $10,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EFinally, under clause 125(4) where it says: \u201CA person who commits an offence \u2026 is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding $1,500.\u201D, we would like to see that go to $15,000. This is simply consistent with where the Government has now reached on clause 125(1), and if the Government is not going to support that Supplementary Order Paper, this Committee deserves to know why, because it is completely inconsistent and illogical. We end up with a penalty regime that does not fit the magnitude of what may be taking place inside the exclusive economic zone. That is our big concern with Part 3 of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe do want to support the Government in raising these penalties. Everybody in this Chamber wants to support the Government, but I just urge some consistency in this particular part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u00229c425a9672d848929c8481cfa0ef650b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c425a9672d848929c8481cfa0ef650b\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. I am pleased to make a contribution on Part 3 of the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill and I would like to pick up on Mr Robertson\u2019s contribution in regard to Supplementary Order Paper 95 in the name of Charles Chauvel in terms of clause 103. It is interesting. I have just looked at the departmental report as reported back from the Local Government and Environment Committee in regard to clause 103. There were some 22 submissions covering clause 103 and all of them were universally opposed to restricting rights of appeal to the High Court, and purely on points of law. So there were strong submissions being made that rights of appeal go to the Environment Court and that they follow the standard practice of appeals under the Resource Management Act, which provides full rights of de novo appeals on questions of fact and law to the Environment Court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWe had submissions from the likes of our main listed fishing company, Sanford. We had submissions from Sanford, and I read that there were submissions from the likes of the Royal Forest and Bird Protection Society\u2014all saying the same thing. So it is disappointing, then, that the submissions\u201422 of them in total, all universally saying that we need to make sure that we change these rights of appeal so we can actually go to the Environment Court and cover questions of fact and law\u2014were not adopted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EIt seems that the departmental officials, toeing the line of the Government, said that there is some degree of alignment with the Resource Management Act. Because of the regime that has now been imposed in the Resource Management Act\u2014the fact that nationally significant projects can be basically applied and ticked off very quickly by a technical committee and appeals go only to the High Court on points of law\u2014there is some consistency with the Resource Management Act. Well, that is not good enough. We know that there are a lot of concerns around activities in the exclusive economic zone and we want to make sure that there is confidence in the whole process for applicants and for those who are concerned and are opposing such applications, so I do support Supplementary Order Paper 95. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI will just go through the other clauses in Part 3 point by point. Clause 114 deals with the enforcement orders. Obviously, this has had \u201Cor any other person\u201D added before \u201Cmay apply to the Environment Court for an enforcement order.\u201D Originally, it was limited to the Environmental Protection Authority and now it has been extended out to any person, so we support that amendment, which came through the select committee. Likewise, the inclusion of abatement notices in clause 122A was an important addition; it gives another option in terms of enforcement or remedies in Part 3 of the Act. Likewise, the insertion in clause 122F: it is a useful tool for the Environmental Protection Authority in dealing with urgent matters. There are little technical things around procedural aspects for abatement notices and the like, which were tidied up and have been included in the bill as it has been reported back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI would like to move on to clause 125, which we have been talking about this afternoon and which deals with the penalty provisions, and Supplementary Order Paper 103 in the name of my colleague Moana Mackey. Certainly, if there are breaches of the Act or breaches of provisions in terms of clause 124, we want to make sure that there are penalties that provide a good disincentive for breaches of the Act. It is commendable that Supplementary Order Paper 100 in the name of the Minister for the Environment does include amendments that increase the penalties up to $10 million. That is commendable and we do support that. But as we go through all of the other penalties and fines throughout clause 125, we see that it is incongruent in terms of having a $6 million fine and then going down to some $10,000 fines\u2014some very petty fines, which are not real deterrents. So we want to make sure that there is consistency right across those fines, hence Ms Mackey\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 103, which basically increases all of those fines tenfold. There are tenfold increases in those fines proposed to make sure that there is a nice balance across the fines in clause 125, but also to make sure that there is sufficient disincentive for breaches of the Act by those who may want to do so in regard to their activities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EPart 3 as a whole deals with objections, appeals, and enforcements, but, I think, critically, there are the two Supplementary Order Papers that deal with creating the right of appeal to the Environment Court on points of law\u2014in fact, appeals de novo\u2014and we would ask the Government to support Supplementary Order Paper 95. Likewise, Supplementary Order Paper 103, which extends, increases, and provides more balance and grunt to the fine provisions in clause 125. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u00229b15d3e810164b4bb6986506b32a3a74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b15d3e810164b4bb6986506b32a3a74\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I will take a call on Part 3 of the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill just to perhaps make a few points of clarification. I thank the prior speaker, Rino Tirikatene, for his comments, but I just wanted to raise a few issues in regard to some of the comments he made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EWhen this came to the Local Government and Environment Committee there were some concerns that possibly there was no recourse to the Environment Court, and that was a question\u2014I was one of the ones who questioned it. But we were assured by the officials and by the counsel who was in attendance that the actual Environmental Protection Authority itself had Environment Court judges who were now with the authority and were, in effect, fulfilling the role within the Environmental Protection Authority of providing that aspect. In other words, instead of having to go off to the Environment Court, the Environmental Protection Authority itself had learned judges within its own body who would be considering the applications for projects and consents within the exclusive economic zone. I was very pleased to hear that, basically, this agency was not just reliant on officials to do the work but did have High Court judges involved in the agency itself, which took away much of the concern in relation to not having that appeal to the Environment Court. We still also heard that there are, of course, opportunities for appeals on points of law to both the High Court and the Court of Appeal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EIn relation to the fines\u2014and, again, we did lobby to get the fines increased\u2014we are very pleased that it did go to $10 million from what was $600,000. It is a very hefty and sizeable increase. I do believe that New Zealand First would have difficulties with some of the other incremental fines going up to the order of $100,000 per day, because on a daily basis those sorts of figures become incredibly difficult to manage, in that some of the breaches could be relatively minor, or could actually have little consequence, but would need the parties to take action. On the basis of $100,000 per day, where there might simply be some technical matters that need to be remedied, that would be a very, very onerous figure to impose on any organisation that was trying to bring itself into line with its particular consent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EBut, having said that, at the end of the day were that organisation to continue to breach the basis of its consents and if it were incurring $10,000 a day and continuing to do so for a period of time to the point where it was not actually sorting the problem out, or where it was unable or unwilling to solve the issue, then there is that final situation where the organisation can be taken to court and fined up to $10 million. That would be the ultimate penalty\u2014to do that. But in the meantime it certainly would make it very, very difficult for many organisations to operate in New Zealand, to undertake development exercises, and to undertake important economic development within our exclusive economic zone if they were going to be subject to, possibly, $100,000 in fines on a daily basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003ESo I would just repeat the comments that we made. It is most important\u2014and we do support Part 3 of this bill and the rest of the bill, in its total, for the exclusive economic zone\u2014that we do require economic development in this country. This is a huge potential resource. I will give one example, which quite staggered me at the Local Government and Environment Committee, where it was said that the Chatham Rise had one of the largest deposits of phosphate in the world, and that, currently, New Zealand imports very, very large volumes of phosphate from Morocco and Algeria. We are very dependant on sources of phosphate for our agricultural sector from countries that are not always necessarily that stable. We could, as an agricultural nation, find ourselves in great difficulty if our sources of phosphate came a bit unstuck. What is projected for the Chatham Rise would have an impact in the order of something like 1 percent of the total area of the Chatham Rise, and to secure phosphate in the future from there for the New Zealand agricultural sector would make us 100 percent self-sufficient in this country for our agricultural needs. You can imagine what impact that would have on our economy whereby this country, which is so dependent on agriculture, could be basically self-sufficient for phosphate for the next 100 years, 200 years, 300 years, or more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dcea89586d34cc2997d1987d7f5b560\u0022\u003EHon Craig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: All \u201Cphos\u201D is good Foss.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223575053654e6480480a092b5ecd6a811\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, yes, Mr Foss. You are a very good \u201CFossfate\u201D. But your fate might be quite different in the future, Mr Foss. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EBut, anyway, to go back to the phosphate on the Chatham Rise, that was one small example that came to the select committee of the importance of the exclusive economic zone to New Zealand, and of the potential impact it would have on this economy if it is managed well, if it is done in a sustainable manner, and if the likes of extraction of that phosphate from the Chatham Rise is done in an environmentally friendly manner that will assist the New Zealand economy and not have any great impact on the Chathams. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003ESo I have just taken this call on behalf of New Zealand First to say that we will not be supporting the Supplementary Order Papers that are suggested, and we feel that in this instance we support the Government through the Committee stage of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 95 in the name of Charles Chauvel to clause 103 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a2e0bd2822ac4bce8d989e104ac91d4b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 46\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 11; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 72\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand First 8; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000346\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 102 in the name of Gareth Hughes to clause 125 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ec17bf6275dd4af7ac5e0f51deddcb74\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 46\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 11; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 72\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand First 8; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000347\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 103 in the name of Moana Mackey to clause 125 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227a6af9210a824bef93c3848dfa6364df\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 46\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 11; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 72\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand First 8; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000348\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 100 in the name of the Hon Amy Adams to Part 3 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d1fa8e4670a245b29a19a674c20899c9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 117\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 11; New Zealand First 8; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cca1c69e40394ee6b06bd5f16be2a6a2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 3 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 106\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; New Zealand First 8; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 12\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 11; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 3 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228f94bce21871441fbca64118e701ef51\u0022\u003EPart 4  Miscellaneous, transitional provisions, and consequential amendments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022df08d7f95754458299ade8c2e1553ae4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df08d7f95754458299ade8c2e1553ae4\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Now, honourable members, we need to focus our minds on Part 4. The debate on Part 4 is clauses 133 through to 149A, clause 16, and clauses 150 to 157.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u00229adf214a3a8c489398f4d571bdb3322f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229adf214a3a8c489398f4d571bdb3322f\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Part 4 of the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill is very important because it contains the transitional provisions for the legislation, which is how we deal with those activities that are currently under way and now need to be brought into this scheme, and those who have been granted consents under the Crown Minerals Act but have not yet started that activity. It also deals with future transitional provisions for the changes in regulations that might occur under future Governments, and under the next Labour Government obviously there will be changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI just want to start by saying these are significant changes from what we saw at the Local Government and Environment Committee\u2014significant. And it is actually very, very difficult to fully understand the impact of these changes when we are not able to sit down with officials and talk through what the various changes mean. It is, again, very disappointing that this was not dealt with at the select committee. The advantage of delaying this bill by just a couple of weeks, bearing in mind that there was quite a generous period between it leaving the select committee and coming back to the House for it second reading, would have been that the regulations would be available so that we could take a more holistic view of the bill\u2014the legislation alongside the regulations\u2014and deal with these transitional provisions if there were significant problems with them, which there must have been because we are making quite drastic changes and quite large changes compared with what the select committee finally decided upon. In the reading of these changes it appears that in tightening up the purpose clause\u2014and I reiterate that we do no think that goes far enough in meeting our international obligations\u2014there has been a lot of loosening up in other areas to avoid a backlash from industry. That would be my reading of what has happened in the transitional provisions here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EWhen I say it is really difficult to fully comprehend whether some of the changes are minor or significant, I am talking about changes like that in clause 149A. If we look at subclause (4) of that, it used to say in the existing bill that came back from the select committee that the impact assessment had to comply with clause 40. When we look at clause 40, we see that it describes what an impact assessment must contain. It goes through everything that assessment has to do and what it has to contain. It goes into great detail. Well, that requirement to comply has just been removed from the legislation completely and replaced with something else about incomplete applications. I am not sure why clause 149A(4), relating to clause 40, was removed, given that these are people who do not have to go through the full process but, instead, have to provide an impact assessment, and we are now saying that the clause that describes what has to be in an impact assessment no longer applies. That may be something that is minor. It does not seem like something that is minor. It seems like something fairly significant. And it is the same when you look at new clause 149A(7), which states that subclause (5) overrides clause 15. When you go back and look at clause 15, you see that clause 15 is actually one of the most important parts of the bill. It is in Part 1A, \u201CDuties and restrictions\u201D, and it is the restrictions on activities in the exclusive economic zone and in or on the continental shelf. It goes through in some detail what must not happen in the exclusive economic zone about the environmental damage that could occur. It is a very important clause. Subclause (7) of this new clause might just be something that is technical. It might be that these are transitional provisions so that part no longer applies, but this was not raised with us at the select committee, and whenever I see something overriding a significant part of the legislation, I would like to know why. The other disturbing thing is that the Minister\u2019s explanatory note is completely silent on this. It does not explain why this is happening. So I would like the Minister in the chair, the Minister for Courts\u2014who was actually a member of the select committee for some of this\u2014to take a call on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef780ab260b04d5d83903fa223463009\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: The former Minister could take a call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022869da42d556d447288cbfa82bdc627ec\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the former Minister could take a call and explain, if he knows the answer to that, because these are wholesale changes to what we decided at the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E We are now no longer saying that when you are providing an impact assessment you have to have reference to the clause that says what has to be in that impact assessment, and we are overriding a very serious clause about the duties and responsibilities and what cannot happen under the exclusive economic zone. I think it is only fair to ask what the practical impact of that is going to be, why we are doing it, and why this was not raised as an issue at the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EWe had the clauses for existing activities, and again, as I said, these changes have been made and we would like to know the answer to that. But now we have a whole new set of transitional provisions for planned activities. We went through the clauses in the select committee around existing activities, and these are things that are already happening out there, so that is fine. You have got to transition them in. You cannot just say, well, on the day that this legislation passes, you have to stop doing what you are doing until you get a marine consent. I absolutely understand that. We have concerns around how far that might extend, where people have not really already started, or where people might rush to hurry up and get in. We were assured that, no, this was just existing activities. This is where people are already doing it, and it would be unreasonable to expect them to stop just because we pass a law, given that everything was consented and everything was approved under the previous legislative situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThen the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper came out, and suddenly we are talking about planned activities, not just existing activities. The definition of planned activities means \u201Can activity involved with the exploration, prospecting, or mining for petroleum\u201D\u2014and the same occurs with minerals\u2014\u201Cif\u2014(a) before the Act comes into force, the exploration, prospecting, or mining for petroleum with which the activity is involved is authorised by a permit that was granted under \u2026 the Crown Minerals Act 1991 \u2026 and (b) the activity had not commenced before the Act comes into force.\u201D We are no longer dealing with existing activities. We are now dealing with other things. It is a question that I asked of the Minister in Part 1A, and she said she would come back to it in Part 4, because she felt that is where the discussion on transitional provisions should occur. What I want to know is, if we take the example\u2014because when we are talking about transition activities the problem is we are actually talking about specific cases the public knows about now and is concerned about now. It is not kind of in the theoretical, in the future, that we might be doing some stuff out here. Actually, there are cases and there are permits that have been granted right now, that are sitting there. Off the East Coast the Petrobras permit, which has been granted, is a well-known example. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EPetrobras has carried out only seismic surveying so far. It has said it wants to drill some exploratory wells. We are talking 3,000 to 4,000 metres deep, and that obviously raises significant concerns in the community that I live in about the feasibility of doing that. What happens if something goes wrong? We notice that Anadarko Petroleum Corporation, in far less deep waters, has recently pulled back because of the inability to get a rig. The rigs for deep water are not that common. They are not like the smaller rigs. But it does beg the question: if it is so hard to get a rig to do the initial drilling, how easy is it going to be to get a second rig to drill a relief well, which is what you are going to need in waters of that depth, because you cannot cap at 3,000 to 4,000 metres deep? Does this mean that if Petrobras wants to go ahead and drill that well, it no longer has to get a marine consent because it was a planned activity? Does it mean that Petrobras can now go ahead with the exploration and mining, because it was a planned activity and it has already been granted the permit? I do not know the answer to that question. I am hoping the answer to that question is no. As soon as Petrobras decides it wants to start drilling, it is going to have to go through the marine consent process, because that activity has not started yet. In fact, it is a long way off, I suspect, particularly given some of the reported financial problems the company is having. But my reading of this is that even if it was not what it was intended, it could very easily be interpreted\u2014and, again, we do not want more legal battles over defining it\u2014as saying that because it has been granted a permit under the Crown Minerals Act, that makes it a planned activity. It means that it could go ahead and continue, not just a seismic survey, which is fine, but also exploratory drilling and potentially mining in the Rauk\u016Bmara Basin 3,000 to 4,000 metres deep, without my community getting to have a say and without going through the full marine consent process. If that is the case, then that is deeply, deeply worrying, especially as the Government is issuing a large number of these permits right now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003ESuddenly, that issuing of the permit process that is going on now carries a much greater significance if, by getting one of those before this legislation passes into law, that gives you rights out into perpetuity to be able to go through exploration, exploratory drilling, and mining without going through any process that examines the environmental impact of those activities. I sincerely hope that the answer is no, it cannot, in which case the question will be why we are even having to recognise planned activities. If it has not gone ahead, why are the existing activities provisions not strong enough to deal with that? If there is some little difficulty that needs to be fixed, then why are we not just patching up or strengthening, beefing up, the existing activities provisions, instead of creating this whole new class? I hate to be cynical, but I really feel that this was the trade-off with industry, that when they saw the word \u201Cbalance\u201D going, which was something they really wanted in the purpose clause, they said: \u201CWell, what are we going to get in return?\u201D. I suspect that this is what they got in return.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022903d2e487c324b18b42c607dd7c21d46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022903d2e487c324b18b42c607dd7c21d46\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Part 4 of the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill is entitled \u201CMiscellaneous, transitional provisions, and consequential amendments\u201D. Some of the consequential amendments, like the big slab in the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 100 in relation to the Biosecurity Act, are not a problem. But the section, as Moana Mackey has outlined, around planned petroleum activities and some of the provisions as they relate to mineral prospecting and exploration under the Continental Shelf Act are deeply troubling. That is because these amendments have come in now. There has not been an opportunity for the Local Government and Environment Committee to look at them. There has not even been the Minister providing a commentary on them when introducing them. The Supplementary Order Paper has, I think, a few lines about them, but that is all. And because of the detail here and the complexity, the full scale of the impacts is not clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBut from reading the Supplementary Order Paper and the bill to date there is this whole notion in clause 151AA on the Supplementary Order Paper about \u201CMineral prospecting and exploration may commence and continue\u201D if the company had a licence granted under the Continental Shelf Act 1964. This licence has been granted, but the holder of the licence may not necessarily even have commenced the activity. It is not just that they actually commenced and had some sort of existing use rights. It is allowing a whole class of activity to happen without the requirements for a marine consent, because this clause overrides clause 15, which, of course, is where all the provisions around getting a marine consent are set out, and it allows an activity that is not even under way at the moment to go ahead. That seems incredibly permissive, particularly around exploration, for example, for phosphate or activities like that. So that is one clause that we have got quite major problems with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThen there is clause 151A about planned petroleum activity. It is very interesting that the Supplementary Order Paper amendment to clause 151A changes the bill to make sure that the activity is planned\u2014and, of course, there is no definition of \u201Cplanned\u201D in clause 4, the interpretation clause, so it has got very wide scope. What does \u201Cplanned\u201D mean? Is it just an idea in the strategy section of a big oil exploration corporation? That term is not defined, so it has got very wide scope. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIn the Supplementary Order Paper there is quite a significant change. In the bill as introduced, the activity could continue without a marine consent until 1 May 2013. The Supplementary Order Paper has extended that for another year. It is interesting that Anadarko Petroleum Corporation is not coming here this summer, because it has had difficulties getting a rig. Is this the \u201CAnadarko amendment\u201D that would allow it to go prospecting without getting a marine consent under the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill when it passes? Is this Supplementary Order Paper to allow Andarko just to go through and put in an impact assessment on a voluntary basis, but not go through the statutory provisions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt would be helpful if the Minister in exile took a call on this to give us some assurance that this has not been the quid pro quo amendment for the industry. It is very troubling that that has been extended by a year, and that we have got activities that were given licences under 1964 legislation that predates the whole consideration and assessment of environmental impact that we have had through the Resource Management Act and through this bill, and that are allowed to continue, even if they have not started yet. That is deeply troubling about this miscellaneous part of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u002216ee362bf6db4bc09058413df7713c4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216ee362bf6db4bc09058413df7713c4b\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on Part 4 of the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill. Yes, it does cover a series of miscellaneous issues, including the transitionary provisions and consequential amendments. It is really the nuts and bolts of how this legislation will work. It covers things like the detail of the cost recovery provisions, the servicing of documents, the rules and regulations around sensitive information, and waivers and exemptions. Finally, it includes a schedule relating to inspection powers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EWe know that this legislation is part of a whole suite of Acts that cover the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf marine environment, and that it fills the gaps. This bill provides the legislative framework to manage and monitor activities, and protect the environment. There are significant amendments to be made to existing legislation, which are also done in Part 4. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI would just like to focus on the transitional provisions, particularly clause 151A. Moana Mackey was saying that she is having difficulty understanding these clauses, and I would like to explain. Also, Eugenie Sage asked us a question about clause 151A. This clause concerns activities such as prospecting, exploration, or mining for petroleum that are authorised by a permit. A planned activity is authorised by a permit. That permit is granted under section 25 or section 107 of the Crown Minerals Act 1991. In other words, these are activities that are legally permitted before the bill that we are talking about now comes into force. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe bill requires operators to prepare an impact assessment and provide it to the Environmental Protection Authority. However, under the Minister for the Environment\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 100, this activity may continue without a marine consent after the date that the legislation comes into force, for 12 months or to the very latest date of May 2014. That also answers Moana Mackey\u2019s question about Petrobras. As it is, Petrobras does not have a mining permit, so it cannot mine; it can only prospect. It has an exploration permit. But the transitory provisions last for only 12 months after the regulations become law, with a final date of May 2014. So, finally, whatever happens, the end of that happens in 2014. Then it has to go to the marine consenting process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EIt may seem that the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper gives prospectors more leeway than the original bill, but this is not the case. Let me explain. Clause 151A concerns prospecting information. The original bill required an application for marine consent to be made within 6 months\u2014so we had to put the marine consent in within 6 months\u2014but work could continue until the final decision was made on that application, which could be 12 months. What the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper does, does not change the outcome. The problem with the timing of the original bill was that the prospecting work would have already been completed before the consent decision was made. Therefore, the consent would be redundant, which actually would have made a bit of a mockery of the whole process, and I do not think it would have been a good way to introduce our new legislation. Prospecting for petroleum takes place only in the summer months, so there would be no activity under way while the company was preparing its consent, up until November 2013. But while it was waiting for that decision, the work would be under way and completed before the consent was issued in May 2014. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe Supplementary Order Paper no longer requires an interim marine consent application, which, as you can see, would come only after the work had been done, so would have been a waste of everybody\u2019s time, but it definitely requires a consent before the following prospecting season. So the Minister\u2019s change does not affect the outcome. It is not a softening up of the legislation, but it does give more certainty to those who have planned authorised activities during the summer of 2013. I have to say that I think that is a reasonable and rational decision, which gives credibility to the legislation. There would be nothing more galling to somebody who was prospecting than to have to go through all the process of applying for a consent and waiting for the decision, but by the time the decision came the work had been done. It would be foolish if it was refused, and, of course, it would have no use at all if it was approved. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002238f3ea65f6664232b601e43520220cc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238f3ea65f6664232b601e43520220cc2\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, I thank you for the call, and I thank the member Nicky Wagner for her contribution. I want to make a general comment about the matters on Supplementary Order Paper 100 that cover Part 4 of the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill, and then raise some specific questions about those changes. The general comment is to say that there are significant changes in this Supplementary Order Paper as to how the transitional provisions will work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe member who has just resumed her seat has given an explanation around one of those\u2014around the Supplementary Order Paper changes to clause 151A\u2014but there are others, as well, around clause 149A and, in particular, around new clause 151AA, that are major changes. It would have been good to have had select committee consideration of those. I am not doubting the word of the member or anything like that, but to understand the impact of this with an Supplementary Order Paper that finds its way to us just a couple of days before we come to debate it is not satisfactory. We have said time and time again in this process that what everyone is after is certainty. What people want is the opportunity to be able to understand what the requirements will be, and, frankly, in this particular part of the Supplementary Order Paper, all we have got is uncertainty and questions that remain for us about what the impact of these changes will be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe member who has just resumed her seat says this is not about making things easier for those who already have licences to prospect or who have had consents granted. Although that is what she says, what is on the paper in front of us looks like a regime that has been designed to make it as easy as possible for those companies that are there. It has some very flexible language inside it. It moves from \u201Cexisting\u201D activities to \u201Cplanned\u201D activities, and what we on this side of the House want to know is that the scope of any planned activity is limited. When I look at clause 151A I am not certain I get that, especially because we have references within clause 151A back to earlier clauses. As Moana Mackey said, we were hoping that the Minister for the Environment would be able to get up today and explain to us how clause 151A works in with the earlier clauses around assessments. We have had some comment on that from the member who has resumed her seat, but I do find it difficult to accept that this could not have gone back to the Local Government and Environment Committee to clarify it, because I suspect that in future years we are going to have to come back and do just that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI just want to speak about clause 149A before I come back to new clause 151AA. Clause 149A is around existing petroleum activities becoming discretionary. I want to note particularly that what happens in clause 149A is the overriding of clause 15 of the bill. That is where our concerns start, because clause 15 of the bill is a very important clause within the bill. It actually gives the powers to the Environmental Protection Authority around what restrictions there should be. These are the kinds of things that people would like to see in any piece of legislation that comes through to this House, where we are actually trying to make sure that we have clear rules and clear guidelines for everybody involved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI know we are not supposed to refer back to parts, but it is relevant because subclause (5) of the amended clause 149A overrides clause 15, which has already been passed and is around the restrictions on work in the exclusive economic zone. It is around things like the construction, placement, alteration, extension, removal, or demolition of structures, submarine pipelines, or submarine cables; the removal of non-living natural material; the disturbance of the seabed or subsoil; the deposit of any thing or organism in the seabed; and the destruction, damage, or disturbance of the seabed in a manner that is likely to have an adverse effect on marine species or their habitat. That is clause 15. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESubclause (5) of the amended clause 149A overrides that. That is a very significant thing to be doing within a clause that has just arrived on a Supplementary Order Paper, telling us that for existing petroleum activities we do not have to worry about any of that. That will be because there are already restrictions within the permits and the licences that people have, but I cannot compare those at the moment. As a member of Parliament expected to look at this bill, I cannot compare back with what those existing licences are. All I know is that we are about to pass\u2014if the Government gets its way\u2014a clause within a bill that tells me that none of those things matter any more, and that, for those activities, all of those things are out the door. From our point of view, the destruction, damage, or disturbance of the seabed in a manner that is likely to have an adverse effect on marine species in their habitat is a serious matter. So this is why we have a problem with these new clauses being dropped on the Committee by way of a Supplementary Order Paper, because we should be able to go back and look at what the impact of this is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe last matter I want to raise is around the new clause 151AA, because I think this is an area, as my colleague Eugenie Sage has already expressed in this debate, where we have got a whole new area around planned activities\u2014not just existing activities\u2014and these are activities with licences granted under the Continental Shelf Act 1964. The issue we have here is, firstly, that we are not talking about just existing activities. We are talking about planned activities, but they may not even be activities, as Eugenie Sage has said, that have begun. These are licences that potentially have been held for some time, yet we are expected to say \u201CWell, that\u2019s fine, they can just carry on.\u201D That is not an argument about certainty. These activities, in many cases, have not even started yet, and we are saying these activities do not now need to be subject to the new legislation that we are putting in place today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAgain, this was dropped on us at the last minute, it was not discussed in the select committee, it has not had the scrutiny that people would expect\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2487d628263453ebdf665abe7a8e3cd\u0022\u003EPaul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: You would never do that, would you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223f9a8ee64734e94a2299c1df3b4c25b\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Goldsmith says we would never do that. I do not know that we have. Does it make it right, Mr Goldsmith? Does it make it the right thing to do to drop something in the Committee in an area where everybody across the Committee wants to create the most robust law that we possibly can? That is the problem we have got\u2014having something dropped on us, where we do not know whether we are actually going to be able to create the most robust law that we can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo we have a concern now that we are creating two or three different regimes for planned activities under different laws that will not be under the new processes that we have agreed to today. That is inconsistent, potentially dangerous, and not what we would like to support. Unless the Minister is able, or a member of the Government is able, to stand and reassure us around new clause 151AA, we do not believe that that is a clause that we could possibly support. Overall, we think that this is an example of why the Government should send this particular Supplementary Order Paper back to the Local Government and Environment Committee to enable proper scrutiny.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 100 in the name of the Hon Amy Adams to Part 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223f79f614d94f40b188b9a5bfb819db30\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 72\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand First 8; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 46\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 11; Mana 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000384\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 72, Noes 48.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e19e138490d04572b3ed3ed6bc3bbc36\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 4 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 72\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand First 8; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 46\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 11; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 4 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000385\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 72, Noes 48.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002289c277ed6c854cd49f81ea472b5890e9\u0022\u003ESchedule not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229136d0d86d2b479ea1043994b0567e7b\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002213b08dd040cb4dcaa7e3bfd74a92b267\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213b08dd040cb4dcaa7e3bfd74a92b267\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We come to the title and commencement debate, and it is interesting when we look at the title of this bill, the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill. If only that were true\u2014that what this bill was entirely focused on, relevant to the title, were the environmental effects. What we have heard throughout the debate on this bill, particularly in this Committee stage, is that there is a willingness on all sides of the House to ensure that we come up with a piece of legislation that manages environmental effects, as the title of this bill suggests it should. But the problem we have now got is that the bill that is in front of us today has reached such a point that although it is good, it is not good enough. It is good in the sense that we now are managing environmental effects, as the title suggests, by making, for instance, the purpose clause more consistent with the Resource Management Act. That is a step towards managing environmental effects, as the title would tell us the bill does. But it is a step not far enough in terms of being consistent with our international obligations, in terms of making sure that we have a robust regime that reflects the concerns of New Zealanders about the management of the marine environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe game has changed since this bill was given its title, and I note that the commencement date in clause 2 has been pushed out by a year, of course. What we know is that in the time that has elapsed since this bill originally began life under a previous Labour Government, the bill changed in a number of ways when the National Government got hold of it. We know that concerns among the public about how environmental effects should be managed\u2014that is the title of the bill\u2014have changed. People have been through the experience of the Gulf of Mexico, people have been through the experience of the Rena, and they realise that we need to manage environmental effects in a far more robust way. So giving this bill this title would seem on the surface, to some people, to be acceptable, but actually, in reality, it does not meet properly the goal that it set itself in this title. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOn this side of the Chamber we would have liked the Government to adopt some of the Supplementary Order Papers put up by the Labour and Green parties. We believe that would have given the title of this bill some meaning. But at the moment, unfortunately, it is mis-titled, and it does not deal with the environmental effects of activities in the exclusive economic zone and on the continental shelf in the way that we would like to see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe need a more robust regime. We need to be using terminology in the bill that is understood, that is clear, and that makes sure that where the management of environmental effects is undertaken elsewhere in our legal process\u2014i.e., through the Resources Management Act\u2014that is reflected in the bill. That is reflected now in the purpose clause; it is not reflected in other parts of the bill where Labour and the Greens proposed amendments that would have made it happen that way. So I think the title of this bill is, in fact, misleading. It does not manage environmental effects in the exclusive economic zone sufficiently to give New Zealanders the confidence that any activity that takes place there will be alongside a robust regime. That is what all parties, I believe, in this Chamber set out to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Government has improved the bill that it introduced, but it has not taken it far enough for the Labour Party to be able to support this bill. Despite things like the penalty provision being extended, which is a good thing, what we now have is a piece of law that still is inconsistent with our international obligations, still has too much uncertainty inside it, has new provisions introduced by way of a Supplementary Order Paper that we do not know the exact meaning of, and, as a result, fails to meet the test of the title that it has been given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00226869598d2a5b4dceb277aa3676fcb751\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226869598d2a5b4dceb277aa3676fcb751\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I am going to take only a short call on the title clause. The title is entirely appropriate for the bill, the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill. I want to respond briefly to the contribution that was made by Grant Robertson. It can be broadly summarised as that of an Opposition that is desperately exploring for some reason to oppose, rather than any sort of principled stand around this being legislation. In fact, the member acknowledged that this is good legislation and that this is a bill that is overdue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI would take the Opposition back to the fact that the gap in New Zealand\u2019s environmental regime, which this Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill fills, was identified way back in 2000. Labour made no progress in getting a bill before the House in its 9 years in Government. We have made good progress and have got a robust piece of legislation to bring into effect, and, with the clause 2 provision, it will be fully implemented by 1 July 2014.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E I do want to point out that when this bill was introduced Labour said that it had two major concerns: inconsistencies with the Resource Management Act and the penalties not being strong enough. The Government worked and addressed those two concerns, and Labour still says that it opposes. That, in my view, just exposes how vacant the Labour Opposition\u2019s true opposition to this bill is. Those members are simply dancing on the head of a pin. If the Government then addressed their latest range of pedantic excuses, I am sure that they would find some other set. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ELet me just take the point that Mr Robertson made that he objects to the relatively short, I have to say, Supplementary Order Paper 100, which has been introduced by Amy Adams. I would remind members of the Committee that 4 weeks prior to the 2008 general election, on another very important piece of environmental legislation, the Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill, the Labour Government of the day introduced an 800-page Supplementary Order Paper. It did not refer that back to the select committee at that time, yet today it demands that this relatively short Supplementary Order Paper suddenly has to go back to a select committee. We do not accept that on this side of the Chamber. We say that that is grossly inconsistent. The member said that the amendments have been available for only 2 days. Actually, it is dated 14 August, and that is a great deal more than 2 days ago. In fact, it is more like 8 days that members have had to study this Supplementary Order Paper, and see\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220865e879ef94cc7a6e7065daac7b1ac\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: A whole 8 days!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cecba8ba21054e269c6a70f8f7b0dfea\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is a very short Supplementary Order Paper, I would say to the member who is interjecting. They are technical changes to the provision. They make the bill stronger. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI would simply urge Parliament, as has been urged by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, to get on, support, and pass this good legislation so that we can get this proper piece of environmental effects assessment legislation into place, so that the Environmental Protection Authority can get on with this important new area of work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00222864073f82fe4f9a8b90b279c32eba8f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222864073f82fe4f9a8b90b279c32eba8f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the last votes, on the Minister\u2019s amendments on Supplementary Order Paper 100 to Part 4 and on Part 4 as amended, were incorrectly announced. The results should have been Ayes 72 and Noes 46. The record will show the correct results. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u002203a51e574414481d840dfae27a417fa1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203a51e574414481d840dfae27a417fa1\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Nick Smith, in terms of claiming that we are dancing on the head of a pin, is misrepresenting the Opposition once again. He has obviously not read the substantive Supplementary Order Papers. There are eight from the Opposition seeking to make quite substantive changes to the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill. That is because, yes, it is going through, because of the Government\u2019s majority, but it has a number of defects, which the Green Party has highlighted from day one. They are in the purpose clause, the gutting of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022561fb1b477ce4b5cb1dd8ece6b617a02\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Never satisfied, the Green Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e11c21438350476690593abfbf4b1f65\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: The member says we are never satisfied. No, Mr Smith, we are not satisfied, because we want good, robust legislation that will endure, that actually talks about sustainable management of the oceans. Yes, this legislation does that, but it is a whole mix of factors, so there is no clear direction to the decision makers about which should be given priority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThere is no clear emphasis on protection and preservation of the marine environment, which is part of our commitment under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. There are these planned activities. The transitional provisions are very broad, and they potentially allow quite a lot to happen in the marine environment without the need to get a marine consent, particularly with the commencement date potentially being not until 1 July 2014. The mining industry said to the Local Government and Environment Committee that it was very, very happy with this bill. Once again, this underlines that there is not enough commitment to environmental protection in the bill, if the industry is happy with it. We have throughout the House\u2019s consideration and in the select committee sought constructively to improve the bill. We still have not had clarification around the scope and impact of the transitional provisions and the planned activities, and what can be allowed there. There is the potential for some quite serious oil exploration to occur without the need for a marine consent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EYes, this bill will go through. It certainly is an improvement, because we have not got legislation there at the moment, but the fact that there is not the ability to appeal to the Environment Court will make it very difficult for the community to engage. The time limits on hearings will, again, mean that for very complex applications the Environmental Protection Authority will be under substantial pressure to deal with those quickly. Given that applicants will have been able to develop those over several years, the bill is actually restricting the ability of the community to get involved in the way that occurs under the Resource Management Act at the moment. So, yes, it is an improvement on the status quo, but there are a number of constructive changes that the Opposition put forward in its Supplementary Order Papers, and it is disappointing that those have not been more seriously considered by the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u0022e09a251f3fc04f8288c502b85b7b0afe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e09a251f3fc04f8288c502b85b7b0afe\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It was interesting hearing the revising of history from the Hon Dr Nick Smith, which he is particularly good at doing, I have to say, because he does it with such gusto that people think, surely, he could not be making that up. I know the member is reacquainting himself with select committees. What he perhaps is finding is that there is this interesting process called submissions at select committees, where people who have expertise in a certain area come along and tell the committee what they believe is wrong with the bill or right with the bill. So when we got to the Local Government and Environment Committee and heard submissions from submitters, what we found was that actually there were a lot more problems with the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill than we had realised at the first reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9ac6e2d540f49f98176aea409a50a9e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: But you opposed its introduction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fbd471d4725469db5d772154e3d6037\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: We did, because at the first reading we actually thought that it was not good enough, and then when we got to the select committee we realised that it was even worse than we had originally thought. The Green Party actually supported it on balance at the first reading, and, again, when we got to the select committee and heard from submitter after submitter saying how weak the bill was, how inadequate it was, the Green Party changed its position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EA whole number of other issues were raised at the select committee. That is why the select committee process is so important, and that is why, when we come back to the Committee stage, we see Supplementary Order Papers from Opposition members on a raft of different issues that were raised at the select committee that we had not picked up initially. I was not aware, for example, at the first reading, that the bill was inconsistent with our international obligations. That was not something that I had considered. But that actually became one of the primary concerns as we went through the select committee\u2014that it is not consistent. There is no certainty around it, it would be tested in the courts, and the Government could have done one very, very simple thing. It could have used the language from the international convention that we ratified in the bill. That one thing would have made it clear, and beyond doubt. We would not have to fight about it. It would be beyond doubt that the legislation was consistent if we had used the language of \u201Cpreserve and protect the marine environment\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe Hon Dr Nick Smith said that Labour, at the first reading, was all about consistency with the Resource Management Act. That is true. In fact, the one clause that needed to be more than just consistent with the Resource Management Act was that purpose clause. We wanted consistency throughout the bill with all the legal terms that were being used, so that we do not use \u201Cfavour caution\u201D, we use the \u201Cprecautionary approach\u201D. We use language drawn from 20 years of Resource Management Act case law so that people know what they are walking into, they know where the goalposts are, and they know what the thresholds are. Resource Management Act case law, in international law, is well understood. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003ENo one knows what \u201Cfavour caution\u201D means. It has been made up. It is brand new. It has no precedent. Do you know who will decide what it means? Lawyers and courts. This should be the \u201CExclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Boon for Lawyers) Bill\u201D, because that is what is going to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221744957f68774c67bbd824db09e5d802\u0022\u003EHon Christopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3cc34055fca4e1498e88ad5e277408e\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Chris Finlayson says that is good. He has a vested interest that he is meant to leave behind when he enters this Chamber. But that is what is going to happen, because it will be a court that ultimately decides. We do not need to be here. If the Hon Dr Nick Smith agrees with the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, agrees that we have ratified it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bb0b6459c8d43f78a245701397dba12\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: This is consistent with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f61d3062a7044e7b2dbfa405f3f488f\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is not consistent with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022745771e285334566a8b3b13e0c021fb5\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022280d9d51564b4648b82fe42c6565c445\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is not. If you wanted to be sure, then why would you not just use the language of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea? Then we do not have to have this fight, and we can all just get on, Dr Smith. We can all just move on, knowing that we are collectively consistent with our international obligations and put that one big argument, which, actually, was the biggest concern that Labour had\u2014that this is going to end up costing New Zealand taxpayers money as litigation happens at international tribunals with people saying that New Zealand has not met its international obligations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226368a51ee03b47ec91d23747a88bd8af\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It is consistent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022269b280fa9a04ba3b764158d270ba3da\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is not consistent. One of the most telling parts\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220627e2cac573447996f161af8c6e5e43\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200410c35d5ec4000b66a81ca3884a26f\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Why would you not just make it clear?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022476b0e933d4c4497bd780814785fbc8a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What have the officials said at the select committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237dbe486ffc84f1881217a7d175fbb2d\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: They said that they had not had any legal advice, which was astonishing; that they had not got any legal advice from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, that the Minister had not called for that before putting the bill together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EBut I am asking Dr Smith a very important question. Why can we not just use the language of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, and then we are clear? Then we do not have to have this fight; we can all get along. We can all get along. We are consistent, we are there, we are good. Why? There has to be a reason why. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E When you look at clause 11 around international obligations, the language has been changed from saying that everything in \u201CThis Act must be interpreted\u201D as being consistent with our international obligations, to a requirement to move us towards, and to continue to implement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c448693628c84238bdd4e70a767a1c09\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It doesn\u2019t say that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7b1ebfb05064d3ca76088a6ac6e0d5d\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: It does say that. It says \u201CThis Act continues \u2026 the implementation\u201D of our international obligations. We are no longer consistent with them; we are just in the process of continuing to implement them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI think it is pretty clear that there is a lot of wriggle-room that the Government has left there because it does not want to be consistent with that international convention. That leaves New Zealand taxpayers exposed, because they are the ones who are going to have to pay for any litigation that is taken against our Government by anyone who thinks we are not consistent with those obligations. It was a relatively simple thing to fix. The fact is that Dr Smith is getting so wound up about it, and did not just say \u201CWell, let\u2019s just fix it.\u201D Apparently he is trying to say that we all agree consistency is important, and we must be consistent with our international obligations, but he is not prepared to do the one thing that would take this issue off the table and leave absolutely no shadow of a doubt that we have consistency. Instead, he is going to do what he has done throughout the entire bill, which is to use language that is entirely different from any legal language that has legal precedent, and which leaves enormous uncertainty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EPeople now do not know where the goalposts are, and the only reason you would not align the language of 20 years of Resource Management Act case law, the language that internationally has been understood, and the language of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea is if you did not want it to have to meet that test. That is the only reason you would not do it, and that is why it has been done. We know that on this side of the House. I mean, the Government does not want to say it. We actually had one energy company that did come to the Local Government and Environment Committee, and they were the only ones who said \u201CYeah, we like this, because it is way more permissive than the Resource Management Act. We are going to be able to get away with a lot more.\u201D That is what they said to the select committee\u2014and we knew that that was the case. It was nice that someone was honest enough to actually say it for once, and say that this bill is going to be less restrictive than the Resource Management Act has been. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe Resource Management Act, of course, has allowed the oil and gas industry to go ahead in Taranaki. It has not stopped it. It has not stopped it dead in its tracks. The Taranaki Regional Council came along and said, and some of it has been included in the bill: \u201CWe like working with the Resource Management Act because we understand it, and it gives us the ability to monitor, it gives us the ability to enforce, and also we understand what the tests are. We are used to dealing with it, so we have no issue with those same principles and those same level tests being applied.\u201D This is a part of the country that the Government consistently points to and says \u201CLook, they can do it, so why can\u2019t everywhere else?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EWell, you know, the council was quite happy with what was being proposed in terms of getting more consistency, because that line at 12 miles is jurisdictional only. You jump across an invisible line in the sea, and suddenly we have two completely different regimes operating side by side and regulating exactly the same activity. How is that sensible? That line is not environmental. That line is not about science. It is not about resource allocation. It is just jurisdictional, and when you jump across it, we now have a completely different regime for exactly the same activity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EAs you get further and further out to sea, in the really deep waters\u20143,000 metres and 4,000 metres deep in the Rauk\u016Bmara Basin off the East Coast\u2014I think that the public want to see that there is definite consistency with the Resource Management Act in terms of their ability to access the process, and to appeal to the Environment Court. But on the environmental protection clauses, the former Minister made the comment that he did not think the community needed that same level of engagement under the exclusive economic zone bill because what happens in the exclusive economic zone has less of an impact on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI think that when you see the impact of oil washing up on the beaches in the Bay of Plenty\u2014and I know the Minister did, because he came to the Bay of Plenty during the Rena disaster\u2014you cannot tell me that that does not have an impact on communities and that they do not deserve to be engaged in the process in the same way that they would be if it happened within 12 miles, before you jump over an invisible jurisdictional line. It does affect communities\u2014very, very deeply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI think that this legislation should perhaps be called the \u201CExclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Missed Opportunity) Bill\u201D. We went to the Minister for the Environment, Amy Adams, and said \u201CLet us find a compromise. As many parties as possible, but particularly Labour and National, can agree that this is how it is going to be. Let us lock down as much as we possibly can.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003ELabour will change this legislation. We will make sure it is consistent with our international obligations and provides the levels of environmental protection that the community would expect. We wanted to find a compromise with the Minister. We tried to do it with the Hon Nick Smith on the emissions trading scheme, and then the M\u0101ori Party gazumped us. We thought we were actually close to getting bipartisan agreement on the emissions trading scheme, and then I heard on the 12 o\u2019clock news that he had gone to the M\u0101ori Party instead and done a dirty deal there. So I know that the National Party is not very big on bipartisan agreements, but they are important when you have got incredibly important legislation like this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI know that a number of the environmental groups also wrote to the Minister and said: \u201CLook, obviously we would like it to go a lot further, but we think that if you worked together and if you found a compromise, we are not that far off.\u201D So we are very disappointed. We met with the Minister and we thought it was a good meeting, but then we had Supplementary Order Paper 100 dropped on us. It did not address a lot of the issues that we raised. Some of them we were never going to agree on, and that is absolutely fine. That is the nature of politics. But we think that on a piece of legislation this important, we could have locked down an awful lot more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EA lot of the stuff that has been done here in the Committee stage could have been done at the select committee. In fact, we asked for it to be done at the select committee, and were told no. Government members did not want to discuss that, and we were not going to change this, and it has been changed. As I said, I am very pleased to see the penalties increased. It would have been good to see the penalties increased across the board, but that one increase we do support, and that is why we voted for that particular part of the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper and of the bill. But this really was a missed opportunity, because we open ourselves to legal challenges. We open industry, community, and the environmental groups up to enormous uncertainty, because this now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cfddfb4cb6f842989cac25518204019c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 72\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand First 8; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 46\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 11; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224abc332a13c54b36b93ede045998c209\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 72\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand First 8; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 46\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 11; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000438\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment presently.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ad0a0cdca57b4ccfa8b9ebc00591dd9f\u0022\u003ERegulatory Reform Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225fa3ce64dafb4da1bac0accd78b00753\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a69362c6d43f4f4cadbff439a326aa69\u0022\u003EPart 1  Agricultural Compounds and Veterinary Medicines Act 1997\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb04313b384e4da8901b62e1d9d257fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb04313b384e4da8901b62e1d9d257fa\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This piece of legislation, the Regulatory Reform Bill, is in the name, I believe, of the Hon John Banks\u2014no. Well, actually, it is very interesting because the bill still has, for some reason\u2014I do not know whether this is an error\u2014the Hon Rodney Hide\u2019s name on it. That casts a sort of a nightmarish shadow over the debate for\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f93416dbb2a481994c2e0dc40ae8071\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: A throwback.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218d2697b923c40209474d91dae1009cf\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, a sort of genetic throwback. Well, we have got the genetic throwback, actually. He replaced Mr Hide in Epsom, of course. This is an interesting piece of legislation, because the legislation that we are dealing with was brought in in the form of an omnibus bill, and was part of the outcome of the Quality Regulation Review, which was led and initiated by the previous Government. It is a bit, I suppose, like a Statutes Amendment Bill in some ways, in that it tidies up a whole series of small technical amendments to a whole series of bills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIt is interesting because, without getting into detail, this bill, when we last debated it, was in a slightly different form. Part of that bill that Mr Banks brought to the Parliament was to repeal 31 Acts that were spent\u2014spent. I recall that when I spoke in the last debate on this, I asked the Clerk, because I am not a lawyer: \u201CWhat is a spent Act?\u201D. The Clerk was good enough to inform me that it is effectively an Act that does not exist, in effect. It has no effect on anyone, and has no compliance cost on any business, or any individual. So one of Mr Banks\u2019 great contributions, as he was hauled back out of the political crypt, and then got into some very sticky and gooey political stuff over the last 3 months\u2014the great reformer that John Banks is; the Minister for Small Business\u2014was to bring a bill into this House that repealed 31 Acts that do not exist. I say, and I said last time, and I did mean it, that that takes a certain particular type of genius to achieve that in the annals of the Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say this: it is interesting that this Regulatory Reform Bill does have some merit. It deals with, for instance, the reclassification of videos, DVDs, and those sorts of things. I went and visited the movie people who produce these up in Auckland\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022271fa6cb69f64ada9279fa9e1b0a47a5\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273cd6a52d57e41a3898e5930ee150124\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am coming to Part 1, absolutely. I am dealing with Part 1, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e4d69e1765540dc8ee14b2bb8ace3c1\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Part 1 is about agricultural compounds and veterinary medicines. It is a long, long way away from other things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f678c1faabb041d1a2956cbffc46dde5\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, only in interpretation, though, I would say. You could say you have a few animal control and veterinary medicines required over the other side of the Chamber. The point that I will jump at\u2014and I will use those as the examples\u2014is that, yes, this bill does deal with a large number of technical amendments, and some of them are very worthwhile. But let us get a bit real about it. This bill does not deal, for instance, with the big issues of reform in terms of compliance costs for small business. Yes, it deals with some components that will assist some small businesses, but it does not go anywhere near the big slash-and-burn promotion that Rodney Hide and now his successor, the Minister for Small Business, John Banks, said they would do. They came in and said that they would slash compliance costs. What did they actually do? They did something profound. They changed the name from the Regulatory Improvement Bill to the Regulatory Reform Bill. That was the great campaigning, the great slash into the future, that Mr Banks did. Then, because they changed one word in the title, they claim credit for this whole process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI just say, as I said in the first debate, that this is a good process\u2014a heavyweight process\u2014but a lightweight content. This is dressed up\u2014it has a bit of weight to the bill\u2014as something magnificent, something that will reduce compliance costs; millions of dollars will flow from this and reduce compliance costs for small business. The truth is this is an omnibus bill. It tinkers around the edges and makes some technical amendments in the areas that we are debating now with Part 1, as you said, Mr Chairman, but it in no way actually addresses the big issues that Mr Banks said he was going to come in and deal with\u2014you know, really cutting through compliance costs, saving money for small business. The guts of it is 31 Acts that do no exist, he repeals. No wonder Mr Banks is now sort of appealing to the deity for help, because his contribution as a Minister is marred with scandal, but, even over and above that, is marred with a lack of work ethic. There is a lot of puffing, a lot of blowing, but he presents a bill to the House that will do very, very little in a practical sense for small businesses, whether they be in the agricultural field or in other sectors\u2014a lot of bluster, a lot of billowing, but it never actually delivered the goods.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022c01d8e1e8ad442b08d6d44e59155e7f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c01d8e1e8ad442b08d6d44e59155e7f0\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E It feels a little bit surreal speaking today in the Chamber on a bill that repeals 31 Acts that no longer exist, the Regulatory Reform Bill, especially when the Minister who has charge of that bill, John Banks, suffers from what can only be called documented memory loss.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f20c9ca44e7f4a51b0d2a325a6e5042f\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: Amnesia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf4c107582dd40f9a6c434ce981a91b7\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: Amnesia, or documented memory loss, as I choose to call it. Convenient memory loss, not the Regulatory Reform Bill or any other bill in his name, is his current claim to fame\u2014forgetting whether he had met with Kim Dotcom, whether he had flown his helicopter to Dotcom\u2019s mansions, and whether he had asked for, been offered, or received donations from that very same Mr Dotcom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c81139406f3f4915b8f25340fffcd208\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: We are on agricultural compounds and veterinary medicines\u2014nothing to do with Dotcom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228df0f66de6644cc79c9e89c913cff349\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in the circumstances, I think it would be pertinent to ask whether the Minister actually remembers what is in the bill, given the documented memory loss. I was going to suggest that we give him a wee test and ask whether he can name the 31 non-existent Acts that are being repealed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe bill is not actually even his bill originally. It was actually originally a Labour bill, in the name of the Hon Lianne Dalziel, and then it became Rodney Hide\u2019s bill. Now it is John Banks\u2019 bill. There is certainly nothing wrong with this bill, and Labour supports it, as we have through all of its stages to date, but most of the changes in this bill are small and technical in nature, and are hardly slashing red tape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAlthough it is all about, I guess, a bit of tinkering, our view is that perhaps Mr Banks should have made its passage more worthwhile by introducing his regulatory reforms for schools into this bill. They are regulatory reforms that, as Mr Banks has been known to say on many an occasion, are all about removing red tape and slashing red tape. The reforms are about fundamentally changing the school system and introducing charter schools, which were not in the policy of this Government going into the election. They do away with a number of what I am sure Mr Banks considers to be trivial and pesky regulations, which the Prime Minister might say people should not be hung up on\u2014the fact that teachers without qualifications will be able to teach New Zealand children at those charger schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ESince that announcement, I think it was described by one academic as being a case of you can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig. It was a rebranding exercise that clearly demonstrates that the Government has recognised\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022960cb8bb01c04ea5b9c605a3d4ecf037\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022960cb8bb01c04ea5b9c605a3d4ecf037\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to refer to new section 44A of the Regulatory Reform Bill, inserted by clause 11, which I believe is part of the part that we are debating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ceefc8ff05b34fb1bf98b1a7a9ed890c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c10b6bc458a14725a388c64c734e9386\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: It is very interesting, because in this it talks about recognised agencies, persons, and classes of persons. Particularly, I want to ask the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Commerce, what the ramifications of new section 44A(b) are, because (b) states: \u201Cestablishes a procedure for the recognition of persons or classes of persons who are to carry out specified functions and activities for the purposes of this Act;\u201D. My question to the Minister\u2014and I take it that the Minister in the chair, the Hon Craig Foss, is not Mr Banks, and we take it that his memory is a lot better than Mr Banks\u2019\u2014is how it is that we can have a Minister of the Crown who has such a bad memory on all sorts of issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThis is very germane to this bill. How would he, for instance, recognise a person or classes of persons who carry out specific functions? How would the Minister for Small Business, Mr Banks, actually recognise it? Of course, as we know through illustrative evidence, the Minister\u2014not the Minister in the chair, to be fair\u2014struggles to remember his own name or his reflection in the mirror, whether he is on a helicopter, or whether the brown envelope was a sack or a brown envelope. So I think it is very, very germane. I would invite Minister Foss, who I am sure has some insight into these things\u2014or he may wish to take some advice from a specialist in amnesia or something like that; I do not know whether the Ministry of Health has those people\u2014to state whether Mr Banks, as the responsible Minister, is actually accountable and can be held accountable for this particular provision in the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI would have thought that in order to establish a procedure for the recognition of persons or classes of persons who carry out specific functions and activities for the purposes of this bill, one would have to have a reasonable memory. One would have to know what day it is, for instance, or what one\u2019s name is. One would have to recognise and remember these persons. I see Todd McClay nodding. He knows that this is an important part of this bill. You cannot have a bill implemented by a Minister who is incapable of remembering the basic facts\u2014the basic facts\u2014of any particular proposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022612de53dfa674b2aa16aa9fcadf849f4\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: What time the House is debating his bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022489e7606da4e45e481b58471ada0218f\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: My colleague says what type of house he is entering. What he had for dinner. How big the bodyguard was. How big the envelope was. Whether he did declare it or whether he did not. These are all sort of evidential propositions that would lead somebody to believe that a Minister who is in charge of this may not be able to carry out and be accountable for the particular clauses in this section, and that is a worry to the New Zealand public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThat is a real worry, because, I think, especially in our agriculture and our other\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c284aa0edd1546e69176e0da3c0b41d3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. The time has come for me to leave the Chair. This debate is interrupted. I shall resume the Chair at 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b55cd985b7d842768954cd6f97bf448f\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I want to acknowledge the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Consumer Affairs. Sadly, Mr Banks is not in the chair. I am sure the ghost of John Banks, out of the crypt, is emanating around the Chamber somewhere, and I am sure he is here. I know he is here somewhere in spirit, if not in person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a521ea992134493bc2a248009494f7e\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7679563816d40928c7f746098e4958f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, a point of order, and the member does not need to tell me what it is. I did give the member a look. He will desist from making references to the absence of people, even if it is by implication.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b9b0e9c84214bbdbc9e812d575572ad\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I want to go back to where I concluded, which was\u2014I know my colleagues over there are interested in this\u2014where we talk about new section 44A in new Part 3A, \u201CRecognised agencies, persons, and classes of persons\u201D. This is an interesting piece of legislation, because this was a piece of legislation developed by the Labour Government. It is akin, I suppose, to a Statutes Amendment Bill. It is an omnibus bill, and it deals with a whole lot of technical amendments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe point I made before the break was that the bill, if you look at it, is actually in the name of\u2014and I can refer to his absence\u2014the Hon Rodney Hide, \u201CThe Ghost Who Walks\u201D. It is still in his name in the printed version. Maybe there has been a mistake. Mr Chairperson, you might want to take advice from the Clerk. But, you know, he is \u201CThe Ghost Who Walks\u201D. It is still in the Hon Rodney Hide\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5cd09230c464065bb74c5c7663644f8\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Famous columnist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c2316ea7a254a978ab2197cdac119f8\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022437b680f17e44c6bb237b83695a46509\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s a famous columnist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a0c76c39f894bbbb2deaef15605d777\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, apparently so\u2014apparently so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWhat I say is that this is a heavyweight process developed by the previous Government to deal with a whole set of issues, but, sadly, the Minister who inherited the bill, the Hon John Banks\u2014bit of an oxymoron, that\u2014came and made the same claim as his predecessor, the Minister for Small Business, who was then the Hon Rodney Hide, that he was going to slash through red tape. Sadly, this is mere tinkering\u2014mere tinkering. For instance, we know that as part of this legislation it repeals 31 spent Acts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EAs I said before the break, at the last debate we had some weeks ago\u2014because we know the Government has hidden this. Since Mr Banks has had his troubles, it has been \u201Cdeep six\u201D, buried, hot riveted, and welded down because the Government did not want anything with John Banks\u2019 fingerprints all over it. Suddenly the police have said: \u201CWell, we know he\u2019s got a bad memory.\u201D He was not sure whether it was a sack or a brown envelope, but he is back out of the crypt in the land of the living. We are going to deal\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed1b823526b744f2a3376fec2313a27c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed1b823526b744f2a3376fec2313a27c\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call on this Regulatory Reform Bill, and I also want to acknowledge the Minister John Banks for bringing this bill to the House. It was Rodney Hide\u2019s bill originally, but John Banks is continuing the good work that Rodney Hide did in the last term. It is about making New Zealand a better place to do business, it is about making New Zealand a better place to live in, and it is about improving the lives of all New Zealanders. The changes may seem small to some across the aisle there, but to the industries that this bill impacts, to the people whom they employ, and to the consumers who buy their products, they are significant indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThis bill, as has already been stated here tonight, is about getting rid of unnecessary regulations and about making it easier for businesses to do business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe07a00b14684a509e57db593e74e78f\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: Speak up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223088e8109f2e4c19bc68e44cdcd3e2bb\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: I want to thank Brendan Horan over there. He did not turn up to the rugby on Saturday, after spending 1 minute on the field 2 months ago\u2014he smiles over there\u2014but his leader turned up and gave a speech without playing the game. But coming back to this bill, we all know what the problem is. It is about the effects that outdated and irrelevant regulations continue to have on our economy. It is about growing the economy, because our Government believes in focusing on the things that matter. It is not about gay marriage. It is about regulations. It is about jobs, opportunities, and the things that matter to New Zealanders, whether it be health or education. I am pleased, because in my electorate of Maungakiekie we have got companies that actually welcome this bill. I go around and talk to these companies. Last week I was at NCI packaging in Mount Wellington, and the one thing they said to me was: \u201CIt\u2019s about getting rid of compliance regulation.\u201D Such regulations burden businesses unnecessarily and are ineffective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI want to come to the bill\u2014I want to come to the bill. There is amendment to the Agricultural Compounds and Veterinary Medicines Act 1997, which Mr Cosgrove did not talk about, but I want to say what it does. The Regulatory Reform Bill provides for greater efficiency and cost-effectiveness under the Agricultural Compounds and Veterinary Medicines Act 1997. What does it do, Mr Cosgrove? Mr Cosgrove did not tell us in the last speech, but what it does is it will remove the requirement for product manufacturers\u2019 details to be included on the public register. That is one thing that it does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003ESecondly, it also allows the Director-General to cancel non-compliant and obsolete trade name product registrations where those registrations, and any required prerequisite approval for the product or a specific component or ingredient of a product, have been revoked under other legislation. He has got that bit right. Mr Cosgrove has got that bit right. But it is also about where the registrant cannot be located or where non-compliance continues to follow suspension of the product\u2019s registration. That is some of the stuff in Part 1 that we are amending. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThese amendments will also remove requirements that are unnecessary and excessively costly. How much is it? It is $50,000 per year under this part of the bill\u2014$50,000 per year. Again they might scoff at that amount, but that amount is still significant when you think over the long term of the amount of money that will be saved under this part of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f363f121a6e240d28a73cecb0d793328\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: How much? How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229444886452d043fca60d63e7bb50aa82\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: I said it is $50,000 per year. Please listen when I speak; I give Mr Cosgrove the respect of listening to him when he speaks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003ESo these amendments will really increase the consistency across food safety - related legislation and will reduce red tape costs. The ability to recognise a class under this Act will reduce potential compliance costs and minimise the disincentive for applicants to become recognised. That is what the bill does, I say to Mr Cosgrove, if he was wondering, because he did not refer to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EMuch of the poor regulation, if I can summarise, afflicts our businesses right across the board. Some of the regulations that we have had to amend, certainly under this administration, the National administration, have been mistakes made under the previous regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256e6d2dfff0e4c0da5cde79116ad65ff\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dae9ae6c67f242f2a53ae9044d67a6a4\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, and they laugh. Let me point out another piece of legislation that we had to amend under the last term. There was the financial advisers and financial service providers legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e76a27e952304b31a179d6c8ddab0b47\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on\u2014relevance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2be2ff922c143cdbe921b0a1a5c599f\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014just as an example to draw an analogy about what we are doing compared with what the Labour Government did. We had to clean up this legislation because the finance company failures were hurtful. We had to make up for the mistakes that were made under the last Government. When we came in, in 2009, we said that we would make two major commitments\u2014two major commitments that pertain to Part 1 of the bill. We said that we would introduce new regulation only when we were satisfied that it is required, reasonable, and robust. I refer to the financial advisers legislation, and I refer to the financial service providers legislation, because in 2008 that legislation was passed and we had to amend it almost immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E The second part of our reform agenda was that we would review existing regulations in order to identify and remove requirements that were unnecessary, ineffective, or excessively costly, and that is what this bill does. This bill amends those costly regulations that were put in under the last Government. So this is another promise by the National Government that we are fulfilling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EJust to summarise, this is another promise that we are fulfilling around reducing the costs of compliance, reducing bureaucracy, reducing red tape, and promoting jobs and opportunities for all New Zealanders. That is what this National Government stands for. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022d121b3e8044c4a79a4c2ec1d5c3e6409\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d121b3e8044c4a79a4c2ec1d5c3e6409\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Clayton Cosgrove.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc83ee25e1b14882b8e02a0d9b0e18e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc83ee25e1b14882b8e02a0d9b0e18e0\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I know\u2014sadly, Mr Chairperson, there is no one else but me. I have got to say that that was a stunning speech. That was a stunning speech, because poor old Sam Lotu-Iiga was brought out as the sacrificial lamb tonight to say that this Regulatory Reform Bill is a stunning bill, because do you know what it does? It saves 50,000 bucks a year! That is spread over however many small to medium sized enterprises there are. That is a lot of money to the average Kiwi, I accept that, and it is spread over the thousands of small to medium sized enterprises in this country. Poor old Sam Lotu-Iiga was reeled out. He drew the short straw in the caucus tonight. He is on the ginger ale. He has been told \u201CCome down and try to justify this.\u201D A bill from a Minister for Small Business, who\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d04be924357447e987f923d6290ecdc7\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: By Banksy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bc0cec450c94cbf8c3982607e8a8851\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in the name of his predecessor, \u201CThe Ghost Who Walks\u201D\u2014Rodney Hide\u2014who came in, like Rodney Hide, and said that he would slash through compliance costs. As I said some weeks ago, Mr Banks must have been affected mortally by his officials who told him to come down. This was the big hit for John Banks, because within this legislation we have 31 Acts that are going to be repealed, which are spent Acts and which effectively do not exist. I think it takes a certain amount of intelligence and class to come up with a policy where you come down to the nation\u2019s Parliament to expunge from the books 31 pieces of legislation that have no effect on anybody, have no compliance costs, and have no effect on any business\u2014that takes a special type of person, in my humble view. Then Sam Lotu-Iiga says: \u201CThe Government works on the things that matter.\u201D Well, by God, can I ask the member what contribution is made by expunging from the books 31 Acts that effectively do not exist? Can I ask the member what contribution to small business is being made by saving a paltry $50,000 per year\u2014a paltry $50,000 per year? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut I want to turn to a very interesting section: new section 44A(b) in clause 11, and I did allude to this previously in the evening\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ced829a9185a448da4923a770463272e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is in Part 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e31682ca7f84aebbef61db90a4f9dba\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: No, I think if you check with your predecessor, Lindsay Tisch, he ruled\u2014and I made a speech on this\u2014that this is part of Part 1. So with respect, until you have taken advice, I will keep going. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWhat we have got is section 44A(b) and what that states is that new Part 3A \u201Cestablishes a procedure for the recognition of persons or classes of persons who are to carry out specified functions and activities for the purposes of this Act;\u201D. Effectively, what that means is you have got to have a damn good memory to recognise persons who have specific functions to carry out the Act. The difficulty we have is there is a lot of not only anecdotal evidence but quasi-judicial evidence, I would wager to say, about the Minister in charge of this bill. This is not the Minister in the chair, Simon Bridges, whose great policy that he brought to the select committee was based on clamping. I have said he is a great clamper, this man\u2014an absolutely great clamper. Wheel clamping was his great policy, so I do not direct my comments at that member. I direct them to John Banks, the Minister who owns this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe Minister who is accountable for this bill has to have a damn good memory in order to recognise agencies, persons, and classes of persons. The difficulty we have with this is that the Minister for Small Business, John Banks, cannot remember his own name. He cannot remember his own reflection, who he is, whether it was a sack or a brown envelope, how big the bodyguard was, whether it was a helicopter, a Learjet, or a MiG-16, what house he was in, how big it was, or how big the bodyguard was. So if the Minister who is accountable for implementing the provisions of section 44A(b) cannot remember his own name, then I have a question for the Minister in the chair. I know he will have done some work on this. He will have consulted the Ministry of Health in respect of what one does in respect of amnesia. He will have consulted those officials, those officials in high office, and he will have an explanation for us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo I ask the Minister: can he give us a guarantee that the Minister administering this bill will recognise agencies, persons, and classes of persons under section 44A(b) who have specified functions and activities for the purposes of this Act? That is what worries the people of New Zealand. You cannot get $250,000 a year, the BMW, the warrant, the flash house, and all the baubles of office if you cannot remember your own name. You are actually running a country here. This is serious. I say to Mr Banks and to the Minister in the chair that we would like an assurance around this. But I say in all seriousness that the Minister came in and said: \u201CWell, I am going to slash through compliance costs. I am going to make the big breakthrough. I am the impact player for the Parliament, and this is lightweight, lightweight content in a heavyweight process.\u201D The heavyweight process was actually initiated by the last Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI am sure Mr Banks will make a contribution tonight. I am sure he will be itching to, given that he has had his clearances, given that his memory has returned, and given that he knows where he is, who he is, what he is, and how much he took. I am sure he will wish to take a call now. I say to Simon Bridges to not be afraid, Minister, to vacate the chair for Mr Banks. Do not be afraid to do that, because I know that this Parliament will want to hear from him. This Parliament will want assurances from him. But, actually, this Parliament will want to know why it is that he brings this sort of technical bill\u2014after how many months in office\u2014as the big hitter for ACT who was going to deregulate and to slash through red tape. This is the best he can do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI will acknowledge that there are a few pages in this bill. It probably weighs\u2014I do not know\u2014a quarter of a kilogram. It is 144 pages, plus Supplementary Order Papers. There has been a bit of work in this, a bit of ink, and a bit of paper. But what does it actually do? Well, the best we have heard is from Sam Lotu-Iiga, and I will say that I feel sorry for Sam Lotu-Iiga. I really feel sorry for him. We have all been in his place, where the whips have told us \u201CCome down. It\u2019s your turn. You\u2019re out on the pole. They\u2019re going to have a peck at you. They are going to have a go at you. But it\u2019s your turn to take the hit for the Government and try to justify this.\u201D We have all been there. Fair enough. And I like Sam. He is not a bad bloke. But I say this: the best he could do was say this bill will save $50,000 per year. Well, how many small to medium sized enterprises do we have in this country? Hundreds, thousands of small to medium sized enterprises. Well, if you spread 50 grand over all of them, it is not a big contribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI just say to the Government that he talked about growth, did my colleague across the aisle. He talked about growing the economy\u2014all objectives that we across the Chamber want to achieve. But I have got to say is this it\u2014is this the 121st point of the 120-point plan? Is this the new one? Is this the big hit? Is this the best the Government can do? I know that it has buried this legislation. It has buried section 44A. It has buried the whole thing. We know, for instance, because I talked to the Hollywood guys, that this legislation has cost the film producers $50,000 a week, every week, because the classification issues have not been dealt with. The Government sacrificed them because it did not want any legislation with John Banks\u2019 fingerprints on it. It did not want a profile for him. So suddenly, after he has got his alleged clearances, it is back in the Chamber, and I know that the Minister will be itching\u2014itching himself probably\u2014to take a call in this debate. He will want to take a call. He will want to actually justify what he has done to earn his pay, because I have got to say, as an ex - small business person myself, that this is piffle. This does nothing to help small business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIt will help the Hollywood guys. It will save them $50,000 a week, and that is fair enough. That is a good thing. But for every carpenter, plumber, sparkie, and small business person out there, this is nothing. The Government is prepared to stand up\u2014and we will keep the speeches; we will keep Sam Lotu-Iiga\u2019s speeches\u2014and say: \u201CThis is the best we can do. This is the best we can do, thanks to John Banks.\u201D I know Sam is going to go out to all these small businesses and hand them a copy of this bill and say: \u201CDon\u2019t you feel good about the National Government? Don\u2019t you feel good about us? You should thank us. You should go down on bended knee and thank the National Government because this is what we have delivered for you.\u201D Well, I have got to say to my colleague over there that I sympathise. I would be saying to the whips: \u201CI want leave for a month after this. I have made the ultimate sacrifice, defending the indefensible.\u201D And you have got to ask why it is that the Minister John Banks, in the last few hours, has not taken a call. Even \u201CCue Ball\u201D over there is willing to have a go, but Mr Banks will not take a call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIf you are so proud of your performance, if this is the big hit for small businesses, if you are going to be carried aloft in every province of the country by the chambers of commerce saying what a wonderful human being and what a great man you are, then surely, as a Minister, you would come down and take a call. Well, I call on Mr Banks to take us through in detail how much it is going to save small business, how many, when\u2014all those things. Because at the moment there will be a few people in agriculture reasonably happy about this for the odd label, but your average Joe, your average Kiwi on Struggle Street in a small business, knows what this is. I said in the last contribution I made that this is bull\u2014high-quality bull, but it is bull none the less. New Zealanders and small businesses can smell it, they know it, and they know when they are being conned. I say to the National Party for God\u2019s sake, have some sort of righteous indignation over this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1b523477f0c4505a0739cbf8b1b2653\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1b523477f0c4505a0739cbf8b1b2653\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E It is very difficult to follow on from that incredible contribution from my colleague Clayton Cosgrove, but I do want to follow on from him because I think he has absolutely nailed the core issue here. I was the chair of the Commerce Committee when this Regulatory Reform Bill, which has taken such priority from this Government, was referred to our committee on 15 February 2011. We set a closing date for submissions of April Fool\u2019s Day 2011. We received and considered 20 submissions from interested groups and individuals, and we heard six submissions. The Regulatory Reform (Repeals) Bill was referred to the Commerce Committee on 17 February 2011. The closing date for submissions on that bill was also April Fool\u2019s Day 2011, and we did not receive any submissions on that bill. We were able to report this bill back in good time, and yet it has taken until now, until this date\u2014and I am not even sure what date we are up to now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022450bc99603854328a0e113adbd059ac7\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: 22 August.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262bc6331264b41abbeb69e8bedf66df9\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: \u201422 August 2012, and somehow this has become the Government\u2019s top priority. I think that my colleague has actually identified one of the major problems that we have with this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI have been at a conference today. The New Zealand Council for Infrastructure Development has had a very good conference today. I had the pleasure of hearing Rodney Hide speaking. Rodney Hide is, of course, the person whose name still appears on this bill, because this bill was introduced by the Hon Rodney Hide. He made some interesting comments, which I think are very relevant to this bill. He said that when he was in the Government he proposed that he should take control of all council budgets as the Minister of Local Government but that his Cabinet colleagues were not as \u201Cballsy\u201D as him. That was the description that he gave to the meeting today, and it was greeted with a degree of incredulity\u2014if that is the right word to use\u2014in responding to such an assertion that Cabinet colleagues were not as ballsy as him to take all of the finance responsibilities off local government. When we actually look at what this former Minister did in practice, he introduced the regulatory reform bill that did what this bill does, which is very little indeed. I think my colleague Clayton Cosgrove has described that very well. So what we are seeing here is the Government trying to push this forward as a major innovation in a number of areas, and yet we have had almost no examples from the speakers for the Government in support of this particular piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EOf course, Part 1 amends the Agricultural Compounds and Veterinary Medicines Act 1997. I recall that this was the part of the bill that attracted some of the submissions, and I think we actually heard a couple of those submissions. People were somewhat concerned at some of the amendments that were being suggested that may, in fact, involve the Director-General not being required to consult in a way that one would expect the Director-General to consult. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EBut before I come to the specifics of this particular part, I just want to comment on the point that was made by a number of those who submitted on the legislation as a whole, which was that in many respects people were left with the concern that there was not proper attention being applied to the individual amendments to the particular pieces of legislation. I actually reject that assertion, because I think that the concept of a regulatory reform bill\u2014we would call it a regulatory improvements bill\u2014is a very, very good concept, because what it does is it enables Parliament to deal with issues that may be vaguely controversial, and so do not necessarily meet the test of a Statutes Amendment Bill, and to remove some of the regulatory barriers to business growth, in an integrated way rather than on a piecemeal basis. If you could imagine that we were debating the Agricultural Compounds and Veterinary Medicines Act Amendment Bill, then it probably would not have made it to the House, because the Minister concerned would not have been able to persuade his colleagues that that alone was sufficient to warrant a high enough place on the legislative programme. So the Regulatory Improvement Bill, as we called it\u2014or the Regulatory Reform Bill, as it was renamed by Rodney Hide when he was the Minister, in order to make it look like he had done something different from the Government\u2014is actually a good process to enable these things to be dealt with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThis particular issue, though, did raise some concern. The concern that was raised was whether it was going to enable changes to be made to the recognition of agencies without the degree of consultation that one would normally expect under the particular provisions of the legislation. So what the bill actually does is it not only enables the Director-General to \u201Crecognise that person as an agency that is responsible for the management and carrying out of specified functions and activities.\u201D but it also gives the power for that recognition process to be overturned. So the grant of recognition is not a permanent grant of recognition. It is an advantage\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286aa46f7ec6b476db515cccfde76effb\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a59c56e62af5407d9bb7f3f2290bf950\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: It is an advantage that ideally means\u2014if anyone can hear what I am saying; I am getting the feeling that the sound system has been turned off. So I think that the point I would make is that it also enables the suspension of recognition to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4e8dc6aa9b0402a90c076eb8cafcf18\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: See you, Lianne.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e44866ab8b0a4b329b20ffe77af20802\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, Mr Chair. Tell her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221837d284b8f144c3b65c59937b4478a0\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am happy to speak without anyone hearing what I have to say. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ebd2cfe4b534a94946a7618d59fc66f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am sure that those people responsible for the sound system\u2014we might be back on again, are we? No. They are working on it. I ask the Committee to show a bit of decorum in the adversity that we are now facing, without amplification, and just bear that in mind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250387ac8ae6246aca22d6d4e6d9db817\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Is it being broadcast?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcc22ddd00874625a7fe540c8276f6ca\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I have no idea whether it is being broadcast. It is not being amplified. I cannot answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b29639aa94a8476cb859f88fc20a8a82\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Well, nobody\u2019s listening, anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226afcf3ed2d194721ad68a3b500d30b9e\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, nobody\u2019s listening, anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7f86ac927664bec9a44c54b4f5abe7d\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: As I can hear my colleague across the Chamber, I can only presume\u2014I am afraid that the member across the Chamber said that nobody was listening, anyway. I am perfectly happy with that outcome\u2014I really am\u2014because I do not actually feel that anyone is taking the issue as seriously as I believe they should be taking the issue. This bill does not allow for the suspension of recognition of recognised agencies, persons, or parties. This was the issue that was raised with the select committee, and I think that as a result of that we have a responsibility to take it seriously. If we do not take these matters seriously, then there is no point in people making submissions to the select committees. If they make submissions to the select committees, then I believe that this House has a responsibility to hear what they are saying and to actually take advantage of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ESo, Mr Chairman, I am not sure why one is looking at one in that particular way\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257b7363f31ee454f83f6573746079b91\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I can respond to a question the member asked a moment ago: is this being broadcast? The answer is affirmative. It is just the amplification that we are short of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bdd1107fe1649eba883e49f73f97934\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. We have had word from people watching the TV that this is not being broadcast. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b483c9ec45a44d8a413c07562655602\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am talking about radio. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022315d3983638a419a85aa64fb095f9347\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Television is not being broadcast either, I am being told. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f290e1f12244c35a6b5b6ed8cd11e24\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: It does not have to be. The Hon Lianne Dalziel\u2014you have got about 2 minutes remaining. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291f059997754442b881d9f898d80cdc0\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ee08a13b6194c0dae11974ef22768be\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: You have got 2 minutes of this call remaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d12fd0dbcdf34945a5786826e1a5585c\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: The point that I was making is that the process of this legislation is an important one, because it does enable us to deal with a range of regulatory improvements on a collective basis rather than on an individual basis. What I have been saying is that maybe the individual amendments may not have sufficient weight on their own to carry them across the line when one is talking about a legislative programme with the Government, but what happens when you are able to collectivise them and put them into a single piece of legislation is that it enables the House to deal with them with them, part by part, within the context of a single piece of legislation, and that can then cross the line. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EBut the point that I am making is that this piece of legislation is not necessarily proceeding through the House in a timely fashion, because we had it referred to us in February last year, when I was still the chair of the Commerce Committee. There were people who made submissions on this who actually expected that this process would be used in a way that would facilitate the passage of the legislation in a timely fashion, but this Government has completely ignored it. It is not taking it seriously. We are not getting the calls from the opposite side that would suggest that those members are treating this in the way that it should be treated. We are taking it seriously on this side of the Chamber, because we think it is a very, very important piece of legislation not only in terms of the individual parts but also in terms of the collective, of what it represents as a whole\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf534f89ef3942f388c386438a07c1d8\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us about the part, then. Tell us in detail about the part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200da82692e314e6b8631922ac5b44456\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: I have told you about the part. It does not give the opportunity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf049079914846cb84b949884dafe980\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf049079914846cb84b949884dafe980\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am aware that there may not be a requirement for this to be broadcast on the radio and on television, but I am just wondering, because of the technology, whether this is being recorded for the purposes of Hansard and whether this debate should continue if it is not being broadcast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00229e39647c3f2742d09c2eb5d38d4a8e01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e39647c3f2742d09c2eb5d38d4a8e01\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I have had no indication that Hansard is under any difficulties, and I assure the Committee that it is being broadcast on radio and that the television broadcast has sound.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2b7746752be4afcaaf62e027aeba381\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2b7746752be4afcaaf62e027aeba381\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Minister of Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I want to take just a brief call, as the Minister in the chair. I want to say I have never heard a better speech from the member Lianne Dalziel. That is because I could not hear it. I also want to say that despite everything the other side has said, this bill, the Regulatory Reform Bill, is a worthy bill. Actually, it is important that we clear these sorts of statutes that have been sitting on the book, that serve no purpose, and that, in fact, get in the way of businesses. The statutes need to be taken off the books. We on this side of the Chamber wholeheartedly support this bill, and think this bill is going to do a good job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022118de9a246234c65a3e8b99943ec1ca2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022118de9a246234c65a3e8b99943ec1ca2\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I think that the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Consumer Affairs, is actually mocking the reality of this situation, because what he has referred to\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3e02f31e0b349ce9f85de73a5715e56\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am sorry to interrupt the member, but I have asked for some tolerance of the situation. Members will walk if they do not heed that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dedc41e03d544eabf8588bfb9d0cca5\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: What the Minister did just then was to take a call and refer to the fact that a number of these statutes need to be taken off the book. That is the regulatory reform repeals part of the bill that we are debating here, the Regulatory Reform Bill. I am happy, you know, because the Minister has raised that, to respond to that. But every single one of those pieces of legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddf7516e62f1462098476ee341d582c5\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am sorry to interrupt my colleague. There is a difficulty. I have just come down from my office, and I have seen your rulings on the sound. I have come down to report to you that you are audible, the Minister is audible\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232b39ecb00bf43ad8259d07a0960ddd2\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I am\u2014sorry? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224462da97a8be4b239cb0f288d3222333\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: You are audible, the Minister is audible, but for some reason on this side of the Chamber my colleague is not. Labour\u2019s acting whip took a number of calls and they were not audible. I can also confirm for you that it is not only the television. It is also radio being piped into the parliamentary system. My question to you is simply this: the proceedings of the House\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e80eee8beda48cab5de787cc783ae5d\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Speak up. Can\u2019t hear you, mate. Speak up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f96c166fb25044838054d6ad6e563d22\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222219903e7ea444a9b6ca4683d73f3a05\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there\u2019s no point in having a point of order if we can\u2019t hear it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d3e53a0a6a24306a6a96ea793f41f23\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Henare, I have cautioned you. You are on your last warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022886485b0d7504cee8322bcd6bc617c42\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I cannot hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022698dad16414840f69f9074e282c46905\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Right. The member will now leave the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a851d80dde1c472e9acb8228105278bb\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: What for? I can\u2019t hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3cdd629337b41d6b596d9de5ca3d807\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will leave the Chamber\u2014you can hear that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c524b08f23ee43cb9ee5f8719bf1d2e5\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Only because you spoke up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3343425fd37489aad9ca39d9223b737\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I am waiting for the member to leave the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4ffafb6d20c482d82f96264bd043aeb\u0022\u003EHon Jo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am just aware that it appears to us that\u2014now my microphone has started working\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218b14102e882463ea4f3fbfe75f5be99\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c7f26cf638d4508b1e5b57b9f18bd34\u0022\u003EHon Jo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but other microphones have not been working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1e2a374a59047a6b49b3ccf35496960\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014I am waiting for the member to leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare withdrew from the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb85aeb7a0964d2086915e85cfe72a9c\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I do not intend politics in this one but I can clarify for my colleague that there appears to be a major problem, unless it has been rectified since I walked downstairs. What I am saying to you, Mr Chairman, is that you interpreted that the radio is working; it is not. You are audible, your colleague beside you is audible, but everyone on this side of the Chamber is not. I have not heard a speech from your colleague\u2014maybe they are\u2014but there is a difficulty in that it is not being broadcast, unless it has been rectified since I walked down to the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230bc39b57e9a494986ec167f009b299a\u0022\u003EHon Jo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair\u2014oh, I am on. But the member Tau Henare\u2019s microphone was absolutely not on at any time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293afe66c05904abcb36f3738c3879df0\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022047c5916deff43699a77aed1a6f0d1df\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: No, that was not a point of order. I am not taking that as a point of order. I have made myself quite clear. I had direct eye contact with the member and he did resist me in a way that necessitated some action after a warning. I have made it quite clear\u2014I am taking advice as I sit here, so I have not got any predetermined outcome about this. I just ask for some tolerance from members in the Chamber, and I am not sure what is happening on this side now. There is some life that has come back in on this side to the audio system. [Interruption] I am on my feet. So I am just going to ask for some tolerance. It is an instruction that the House should be broadcast, but not a requirement, if you can understand the Standing Orders on that point. It is preferable\u2014I have had a look at the Standing Orders. In the absence of that, if we show some accommodation to each other, we can hear what is going on in here. I thank the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e494b0d4f6c24b1b92f6d9186988bc67\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Thank you, because\u2014[Loss of audio]\u2014in an appropriate way. My question, which maybe you could answer, is that if it cannot be broadcast in the media\u2014i.e., television or radio\u2014should that not be rectified before proceedings continue? That is one problem. The second problem is I\u2014[Loss of audio] Mr Henare has illustrated the third problem: some members cannot hear the contributions of others, so is it appropriate that the Committee taihoa for a moment until the technical difficulties can be fixed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266b48ccfbcd04a7fa0334e40c0de0d9f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Let me just tell members that the Standing Order I referred to is Standing Order 44(1), which states: \u201CThe proceedings of the House are broadcast on radio during all the hours of sitting\u201D. Nowhere in the Standing Orders is there a requirement that says that if they cannot be broadcast, the proceedings of the House will be adjourned. There is no instruction in that form. Having worked with the difficulties that we are in, the Clerk has brought us a microphone, which we will pass to any member who has the call. They can use a handheld microphone. That is the best we can do in the circumstances until it is rectified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cb2d659dd5b4a1f9cd998eff27fe3ff\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. With respect, Mr Chair, I do not want to in any way impinge on you, as I think what you are doing is absolutely appropriate. But I think it is worth you seeking some advice from a higher authority\u2014if you can hear me, Mr Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231bfa583bfde4a709fa67e5a0727bfc7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I think others should hear you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221a8bc3f44fc49a08cf25565ba5aaf78\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I will approach the bench. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c57edebf99304f289d2e867638d09efe\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CKaraoke Cosgrove\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022240ce199d16b4968b5f86386bdb91a7f\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I do commit to the Committee that I will not break into karaoke. I do not wish to impinge on you, because I think you are trying to navigate through this. But I think there is an issue as to whether the House should be suspended until this problem is worked through. I am happy to move to recall the Speaker, but if I do that I do not want any imputation put on the fact that I am challenging your integrity, because I think you have acted absolutely admirably. But I would suggest, and I am happy to move, that we recall the Speaker to just get some advice on this. But I do not want to impinge on your integrity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022706b2394c86f47b382cb3fdeea4262eb\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I will respond to that. We now have a microphone that works. I know that it is not the best that it has to be moved around\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fef6bd21fd145ada405996b5192eab1\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Is it being broadcast?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022800f928243794b999bfcc0d61a7dd10a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is. You are booming loud and clear here, and my presumption is that it is being\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb05b8e04fc947408ca9706caf33b7f3\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: But on the television and the radio?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b88f413619424e5ea95429cfc2b809d5\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a73ac44f5324c4487e360fa66ee12d3\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I have been able to follow the progress of this debate on television, but I got the feeling also that some of the things that were being said by you, Mr Chair, were being broadcast as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291ea89bb25d74de0871efd3b9ad30b72\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Can I simply request the following: that if we cannot get verification that it is being broadcast through the normal medium, could we seek advice from the Speaker, on the premise that I do not wish\u2014normally when the Speaker is recalled it is a negative conclusion on the Chair, and I want nothing drawn from that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022204b26bc433b4d8bad55e3a8ff65684c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: That is understood. The member has only to move that the Speaker be recalled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002266b42d5bda37438d90071b3a8a6f2f7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266b42d5bda37438d90071b3a8a6f2f7a\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Chairperson report progress to obtain the Speaker\u2019s ruling regarding the failure of the sound system and whether the Committee could proceed while not being broadcast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u002236bf3ca61ae6429885eb65d922e90ff7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236bf3ca61ae6429885eb65d922e90ff7\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002247bc7e1d07da4ad3881f7c6d35b71b8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247bc7e1d07da4ad3881f7c6d35b71b8c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: No, we have now moved to recall the Speaker. We are past that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229843321ea1844138b2814f4f6c4c4c5a\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c2e888f2db64f86a10f34650c4fdbc2\u0022\u003ESpeaker Recalled\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002212a3030d0c90420b903a7c204551d076\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212a3030d0c90420b903a7c204551d076\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the Committee finds itself in\u2014[Interruption] Is this microphone going? Mr Speaker, I think the technical difficulties that the Committee has been enduring are now apparent by the activities that took place when you came in. About 15 minutes ago there was a bit of a pop, and the sound went dead in here. I asked for the Committee to show some tolerance, and, by and large, it did that, but then we became aware that various parts of the Chamber were being broadcast on radio and on TV without pictures, or at least that is what was reported. [Interruption] Order! Oh, sorry, Mr Speaker. Consequently, an issue has arisen: Standing Order 44(1), which states: \u201CThe proceedings of the House are broadcast on radio during all hours of sitting \u2026\u201D, became a bit of an issue. We are not entirely sure in how many positions around the Chamber that was happening. The Clerk arrived with the temporary microphone, which I have now seen. We are still not exactly sure how widely this is being broadcast. As you are aware, sound is being amplified inside the Chamber. So it was determined that your advice be sought on this, and that possibly also gives some time for remedial action to take place technically. We look forward to your advice on the matter, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002248a3da49dc724670a7fa4641cdbe272b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248a3da49dc724670a7fa4641cdbe272b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I just reiterate my commitment: I have agreed not to sing. I want to say, for the record, that normally when the Speaker is recalled it is a negative on the Chair. The Chair has done an admirable job to try to navigate through this. The simple proposition is that I and other colleagues have ascertained that from time to time the Chair and the Minister in the chair could be heard. A colleague over there could be heard at one point. I sat up in my office, after having made a speech, and a number of colleagues, the acting whip, and my colleague Lianne Dalziel could not be heard audibly. A member was asked to leave the Chamber for a variety of reasons, including, perhaps, that he could not hear. The question we simply wanted to ask and be answered\u2014and this is no implication at all on the Chair\u2014is whether the proceedings of the House should continue whilst there is no audible noise through Radio New Zealand, the broadcasting system, our internal system, or the television broadcast. We have not checked the internet. It cannot be heard. It may be that it is sporadic or patchy through here, but we wish to seek your advice in respect of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00220c6f4c367d864b6f91e340f3e5e0f93a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c6f4c367d864b6f91e340f3e5e0f93a\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I have not found anywhere in the Standing Orders that there is a requirement for Parliament to be broadcast. Surely, the debate occurs within this Chamber. I would like to request that we continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022 data-id=\u00226e13063e1b9d4f718adc6b16fda8cee8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e13063e1b9d4f718adc6b16fda8cee8\u0022\u003EBRENDAN HORAN (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I think from the Opposition side we are most concerned that the Opposition is not being heard, but not just in New Zealand, because across the world people are live streaming. Admittedly, in Finland and Hungary they have turned off from New Zealand, but we do not want the rest of the world to think we cannot operate a simple sound system. So please take that into consideration in your ruling. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002242061899a79d42fd8f2fa69d2203d0ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242061899a79d42fd8f2fa69d2203d0ca\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank honourable members for their comments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289e2bc8871ec4a889bf2b5c532479246\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c261c1c7387e408a927176dcfbd412ee\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Does Clare Curran wish to speak?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022be9ef072347243dab376464751112063\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be9ef072347243dab376464751112063\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E The member made a very valid point around the importance of the internet. I think this has actually thrown into relief that the issue we are dealing with here, particularly on this side of the House, is that members cannot be heard. Whether it is just the Opposition side of the House or not, it is unknown whether or not they are able to be heard on radio. The member made a very important point about the internet and the importance of being able to communicate the proceedings of Parliament via the internet. The other point I would like to make is that since the sound went off there have been issues of order in the House, and one member has been ejected because of the amount of disorder. So I would ask you to take that into account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1e57a41710d4f8c8780059acbcc9746\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1e57a41710d4f8c8780059acbcc9746\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I think it would set a dangerous precedent to state that unless Parliament was being broadcast by television and radio it could not continue with its important proceedings. The Chair of the Committee quite appropriately ruled that the Committee should be able to continue. In fact, this Parliament performed for over 70 years without microphones and without radio, and the precedent that would be set in the event that you rule that we must have Parliament broadcast for it to be able to proceed with the business of the House, in my view, would be quite detrimental. With a little bit of courtesy, there is no reason why Parliament cannot continue with its important functions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u0022044b4337c16b4543a76ee5e3c404456a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022044b4337c16b4543a76ee5e3c404456a\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E There are two points. Firstly, we seem to be in a vacuum here in terms of anyone with technical expertise who has come and advised us. Much of this seems to be done just from various people\u2019s opinions. I am somewhat aghast that perhaps the Chairman and the Speaker have just simply not asked the technical people to advise what the situation is. Is it a temporary situation, or could this be ongoing? If it is ongoing, then obviously it causes a more difficult situation. Secondly, I think the point that has been made by several of my colleagues is the fact that one side of the House still appears to have a reasonable amount of amplification, although the Opposition side of the House does not. Therefore, if it was evenly balanced, it would not be too much of a problem. But the fact that the people out there who are listening to the broadcast are simply not hearing the Opposition viewpoint does compromise the whole debate, and, therefore, on the basis that it compromises the whole debate and that only the Government\u2019s position, essentially, can be heard, it must put the whole debate into question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002280f50c693bd34547b9a9b4100ee650ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280f50c693bd34547b9a9b4100ee650ea\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank honourable members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225921649e1eb34cf9a51f69460d6f4855\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242f0b5f19dbb4600baf9827a1d647535\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear finally from the Hon Simon Bridges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae6994cf93c942feb213e070e1886279\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae6994cf93c942feb213e070e1886279\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Minister of Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I appreciate that we want to get on with this, but it is a relatively rare point that we are not likely to deal with commonly. I concur with Louise Upston. I do not think there is a rule directly on this. I would also just make the point, which is really related to the point that the Hon Dr Nick Smith made, that this is a debating chamber, and the central point of this Chamber is that members can hear each other. We can now do that with that microphone. Anything else, I would suggest, is really ancillary to that point. The other point I would make, which relates, is that because this is now being done by microphone, it is not as if Hansard cannot transcribe and record this. It can do that. So anyone who wishes to, following this debate, will be able to see what is said verbatim. In fact, people outside of this Chamber, whether it is being broadcast live or not, will be able to pick up what is said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002263eaed968dc541a9998779fb9a0d68f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263eaed968dc541a9998779fb9a0d68f3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Honourable members, I appreciate your restraint in this difficult situation. I must say\u2014if I could be a little bit facetious for a moment myself\u2014I was watching this while chairing another meeting, and when I saw my colleague here, the Hon Clayton Cosgrove, with a microphone in his hand, I wondered whether he was actually singing to the Committee. I was most impressed. I thought this was a new talent that one of my parliamentary colleagues was demonstrating to the Committee. Little did I realise the reality of the difficulties being confronted by members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI think some of the points being raised by members are very important. Were the situation to result in some parties\u2019 contributions to this debate being heard in public and other parties\u2019 contributions not being heard, that would be a pretty unacceptable situation. That would result in the views of one party getting through to the public and another party\u2019s views not getting through, and I think it would be hard to argue that that was not an unacceptable situation. Some members have asked why this technically cannot be fixed up right away. Apparently, one of the problems is that the system is highly computerised. Work is going on at this moment to try to rectify the problem. The first job was to find out exactly what was going wrong. Now work is going on to rectify it, but it will not be done immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EMy advice is that sound is getting through on Radio New Zealand, television, and web streaming\u2014members raised that issue earlier. But what would be needed from members is a preparedness to be a little helpful in this situation. Where the microphones are working\u2014which seems to be more on the Government side of the House\u2014that is fine, but what I would ask the Chair of the Committee to do is to allow a little more time for one of these handheld mikes to be made available to all other members, because where they are being used the sound is being transmitted, I am advised, and is being received over radio, television, and web streaming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003ESo if members could just be a little more\u2014well, not more cooperative; you have been very cooperative so far. I ask members to be prepared to be that little bit cooperative during these difficult times, and perhaps, Mr Chairman, you could make sure that the time on a member\u2019s contribution during the Committee stage is set from the time the member has a microphone in their hand. I think, under those circumstances, as long as the public is getting equal feed from all sides of the Chamber\u2014and that is, I am advised, what will happen if these handheld mikes are used where the desk mikes are not working\u2014and if we just make sure time is allowed, no member will be disadvantaged through waiting for a handheld mike to be delivered. And I ask the support staff here in the House to assist with making sure these microphones are delivered to members as quickly as possible. I really appreciate members\u2019 preparedness to be constructive during a difficult time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed72d2ee9264441bb823dce49d39f06c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed72d2ee9264441bb823dce49d39f06c\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you for that. I just wanted to touch on one point. You have been advised that the sound is audible through the normal systems\u2014correct? My question simply would be this. If there is a failure later this evening, or whenever, what is the position of the House if that does drop out? I would just like some guidance, so we do not have to go through this again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002292a8deaa4ebe4cddb341ebad2d2b6147\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292a8deaa4ebe4cddb341ebad2d2b6147\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, we do not know whether that is going to happen, but, to me, the issue that I would find\u2014and this is me as Speaker almost thinking off the top of my head here\u2014unacceptable would be for some parties in the House, some members in this House, to be heard by the public during a debate when other members cannot be heard. That, to me, would be an unsatisfactory situation. However, members have also pointed out that there is no Standing Order requirement for the broadcasts. If, in fact, there was unfairness on what was going through, it would be totally within the Standing Orders of the House to close down the broadcasts. As members have pointed out, the rules cover the debate in this House. They facilitate the broadcasting of the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EBut, to me, the thing that would be unreasonable would be if any one member\u2019s or party\u2019s views were getting through to the public on important issues and other members\u2019 or parties\u2019 views were not. I personally would find that unreasonable, and I stress I am talking off the top of my head here. It would seem to me that the only fair way to deal with that would be to actually close down that unbalanced broadcast. I do not know, but I imagine that it is technically possible to close it down. I think that would be the most sensible way to deal with that situation. The Standing Orders do not require the broadcast; they facilitate it. If it is an unfair broadcast, I think we should not allow an unfair broadcast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d727d55c74244bc199b7fb2112ac296d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d727d55c74244bc199b7fb2112ac296d\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The point of order that I raise is in regard to a tweet from Parliament today, from @ParliamentNZ, which states: \u201CSound problems hit Parliament again. Dalziel plows on undeterred and Minister in chair does not realise his mike is on\u201D. And that was the point my colleague Clayton Cosgrove made when he came down to the Chamber, which is that the broadcast system was picking up the Minister in the chair\u2019s mike but not anyone else\u2019s mike. That does indicate that, in fact, there is an unfair disadvantage, in that some members are able to be heard publicly but not others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022b444041f48c84897a8892853cf42b3bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b444041f48c84897a8892853cf42b3bf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I want to make sure that the Minister in the chair is aware of this issue. I think it is pretty easy to tell which mikes are working, and I think we must make sure that before a member\u2019s time has started, the Chair of the Committee is satisfied that the member\u2019s microphone is working, and then\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228edef5e405a4ca4a175ec0f39bad7f4\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: And it\u2019s being broadcast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022594af3e498134cb59a80057bcfd07c1b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Because if it is working, it will be broadcast. If the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240c1a4777dcf41b49a98b57c39135019\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Publicly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fece30f6bdf4f8887d3af089cfdd424\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: My advice is that where there is a microphone that is working, it will get through in the public system. That is my advice. So if a member starts to speak\u2014and it is quickly obvious whether the microphone is working or not\u2014I would ask that the time be stopped until the member is delivered a hand mike. Then the broadcast is fair to all members in that their contributions to the debate are getting through in a fair and reasonable manner. I do apologise. I apologise to all members in the House. This is unsatisfactory. It is beyond the control, I think, of any of us, but I appreciate very much your cooperation during a difficult time. I want to make sure no member is disadvantaged by it. And I ask the Chair of the Committee to ensure for me that no member is disadvantaged by it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00224c1011bba2ca419286b6fc0221f1c622\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c1011bba2ca419286b6fc0221f1c622\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is a separate point of order. Prior to your being recalled, Mr Cosgrove was speaking in the Chamber, and the Hon Tau Henare was called upon to leave the Chamber. I was sitting closer to both the Chair and the speaker at the time in the debate, and it was not clear to me\u2014let alone, I would assume, Mr Henare\u2014whether it was a speech or a point of order that was made. We have heard from members in the points of order previous to this that there was difficulty with microphones on the Opposition side of the House, and that it was extremely difficult to be heard. Indeed, the Chair at the time said that he was able to see Mr Henare, but actually to be able to see somebody and to hear the instruction on whether it was a point of order or a speech, I would suggest, are different things, so I wonder\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00227ffcb715b3b84042a49a5d80e3dddaea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ffcb715b3b84042a49a5d80e3dddaea\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I see where the member is going, and I must point out to him, and to save the House\u2019s time, that that is a matter for the Chair of the Committee. The Speaker cannot interfere in that matter. That is a matter for the Chair of the Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022510f7c5c3e5b4aa39c0d333eeb6b0a0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022510f7c5c3e5b4aa39c0d333eeb6b0a0d\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not want to prolong this any further, and I think it is probably a discussion that will need to happen in another forum. This is not the first time the House has had difficulties with the sound system. In fact, we have encountered difficulties before where everything that occurred in the debating chamber was broadcast, whether the member\u2019s microphone was audible within the Chamber or not. I want to raise with you that I think this is becoming quite a problem, and I would like some assurance that it is going to be dealt with finally, so that we do not have these recurring problems. It has been a recurring problem the entire time I have been a member of Parliament\u20144 years\u2014since, I understand, this current sound system was put in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002294a18c928bdf426db4ef35606c696229\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294a18c928bdf426db4ef35606c696229\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I hear the member\u2019s point. Every endeavour will be made to ensure that it does not happen again. Sadly, modern electronic systems are not totally foolproof yet. But the member makes a perfectly good point. Every effort will be made to ensure we are not let down like this again. I do apologise to members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002247dc0c2f3acd4068a5b4f55ea782e1f4\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000624\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022152d4ad2e4a4447f90d6ffda1597fc19\u0022\u003EPart 1  Agricultural Compounds and Veterinary Medicines Act 1997 (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3a5e2dc2923495ebac07f2aa7591d7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3a5e2dc2923495ebac07f2aa7591d7f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The House in Committee for the Regulatory Reform Bill is resumed. I think the Hon Lianne Dalziel had the call, and she has just over 4 minutes remaining. I think I should respond to ejecting someone from the Chamber. I have been informed that this microphone has been live the whole time. Whether or not it was, having spent my formative years as a drum major, I am quite sure the member heard me. The reason he got ejected was for interjecting while I was on my feet, and he clearly can see, even if he cannot hear. But given the complexities that the House has been in, he is able to return to the Chamber at 9 p.m. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u002231bd7e0c5c8545cc9afc530072b22123\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231bd7e0c5c8545cc9afc530072b22123\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to clarify the amount of time that I have to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022462a13e5123d4ca9b433d7694f66c46d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Four minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271d31004e6884e87a0dd437962bc5565\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Four minutes? So I have not lost anything as a result of this? OK, just checking. I think that before this interruption, I was identifying that the Minister of Consumer Affairs himself had spoken with, probably, a broad-brush approach on the whole regulatory reform repeals element of this legislation, which he said gets rid of a whole stack of statutes that are holding business back. They are costing business money, and they want to cut through the red tape in order to get things done. Not one single piece of that legislation exists in practice. This is a tidy-up piece of legislation that he is referring to, which simply removes things from the books that are printed there in technical fact, but have no practical impact at all. So it really is not a very good argument for the Minister to make, and I am disappointed, actually, that he would make those assertions in this Committee, because they really do not make any difference to the sum whole of any of the compliance issues that business might face. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe removal through a repeal Act of legislation might remove some printed words from the statute book, but it does not do anything practical to assist the small to medium sized enterprises of this country. I think to get up and say in this Committee that that is what this legislation is all about, when in actual fact it does not make any practical difference\u2014I am all for the tidying up of the legislation, but I just do not think that the Minister should stand in this Committee on this part of this bill, in order to make that point, when I do not think it is particularly relevant to this particular part. I also do not think that it is relevant to the debate that we are having. It is not relevant, and to assert that small businesses are going to be better off as a result of the changes that this legislation is making is simply an inadequate response from the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI do not think that the Government has been taking this bill seriously. That it could allow this bill to be introduced in February last year\u2014I mean, we have had a general election since then. I was the chair of the Commerce Committee and we treated this seriously. We actually dealt with it relatively quickly. We reported it back to this House in a timely fashion, and this is what we are treated with. We are down to August 2012. So the Government does not think that this is very important, and then we get these platitudinous speeches in the Committee, from\u2014what is the name of the guy from Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8a852e273b544509a577fa4ebc54f23\u0022\u003ERino Tirikatene\u003C/span\u003E: Sam.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c09eb3435534677aa7d0f3efd6faed9\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Sam Lotu-Iiga was saying that this is the best thing since sliced bread and it is a fantastic Government that has been able to deliver it. Yet you just cannot for a minute see that this Government has shown an ounce of interest in this particular matter, which actually does verify the fact that this is not a piece of legislation that is going to have a major impact at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThat being said, I am pleased with the approach. But it is the approach that we developed when we were in Government. We said you need to have a particular format for regulatory upgrades that enable a number of regulatory measures to be dealt with in a single hit, rather than dealing with them as individual pieces of legislation. The reason that we went down this track is we knew that Ministers were going to struggle to get their colleagues to agree, and that the agricultural compounds amendment bill, or whatever it is\u2014the amendment to the Agricultural Compounds and Veterinary Medicines Act 1997\u2014was not going to get the standing it needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00220a25c75d84e146789a769de6b774fd41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a25c75d84e146789a769de6b774fd41\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to speak to Part 1 of the Regulatory Reform Bill again, and take a little issue with my colleague Clayton Cosgrove. Although I support the vast bulk of what he said on the bill in his previous, erudite speech, I would like to say that Labour is the party of restorative justice. It stands for restorative justice and rehabilitation. I think that is a really important point to bear in mind when we are talking about the issue of documented memory loss and the effect that that can have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIn particular, I refer to section 44A(b) in clause 11 and the point that my colleague Clayton Cosgrove was making around whether or not the Minister in charge of this bill, John Banks, could actually establish \u201Ca procedure for the recognition of persons or classes of persons who are to carry out specified functions and activities \u2026\u201D. It was unknown whether or not he could actually recognise those people, and whether he would have the memory capability to do so. I think, given that we know that there is a phenomenon known as recovered memory syndrome, that it is possible that he could actually recover his memory and be able to fulfil and carry out his functions as the Minister in charge of this legislation. In particular, I refer to section 44A(c) in clause 11, which says this part \u201Csets out the duties of recognised agencies, recognised persons, and recognised classes, and when their recognition can be suspended or withdrawn;\u201D. The bill goes on to talk a bit more about recognition and the importance of recognition, and recognised agencies, recognised persons, and recognised classes. I do take issue with what Clayton Cosgrove said around the ability of the Hon John Banks to actually recognise those things, and whether or not he was able to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI would like to follow on from my colleague Lianne Dalziel, who chaired the Commerce Committee that saw this bill through and did a very good job. I am sure that all of the erstwhile members of the Commerce Committee in the last term would agree that she did a very good job on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe summary of changes includes quite an important issue\u2014which we have not discussed tonight\u2014around amending the Companies Act 1993 to allow companies to choose whether to use electronic shareholder participation. I suppose, when thinking about this bill, that that particular aspect of the bill is actually quite important, and one would think that it would have meant that this bill came before the House a lot sooner than it did. I understand that a number of companies have wanted to use an electronic means for shareholders to cast a vote, but, because of their inability to do so under the current legislation, they have not been able to. Just to set out the issue with that, the Companies Act 1993 does not permit companies to use electronic technology for shareholders to vote during meetings, nor does the Act permit shareholders to elect to receive notices and other documents from the company electronically. The impact of this bill\u2014which, as Lianne Dalziel has said, came out of the regulatory changes that came from the previous Government\u2014will enable companies to use electronic technology for shareholders to vote during meetings. This is 2012, and one would think that we could have sorted this issue out a couple of years ago, at least. You have to ask yourself: \u201CI wonder how many companies have actually been precluded from using that mechanism to get their business happening in a more timely and easily managed fashion?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022f171f66d298c4f2899f028a976acc856\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f171f66d298c4f2899f028a976acc856\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 20 in the name of the Hon John Banks to Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225dc8e892a4d64a9b860b6a0705fc5190\u0022\u003EPart 2  Animal Products Act 1999\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000645\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 20 in the name of the Hon John Banks to Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000646\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000647\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222fdf3bc999d644efb26b8580a054d854\u0022\u003EPart 3  Companies Act 1993\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00224fcec0fdd2e549ea88985970912afd87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224fcec0fdd2e549ea88985970912afd87\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The question now is that Part 3 stand part. Are you taking a call? You must call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea3ed77f97954f909f36fe19beb777ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea3ed77f97954f909f36fe19beb777ed\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. One of the issues with the lack of sound in the Chamber is actually the inability to be heard when one stands and attempts to seek a call. So I would like to draw the Committee\u2019s attention to that, that that is an issue on this side of the Chamber, which is the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002263a61fa6766e438c930d3b7e655a8683\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263a61fa6766e438c930d3b7e655a8683\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am very cognisant of what the Speaker said. I looked around to see whether any member was on their feet seeking a call. When that did not happen, I proceeded. I will do that on each occasion. I said: \u201CIs any member seeking the call? I will put the motion.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u002261ff791c1a03446998e6dca298fb7c73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261ff791c1a03446998e6dca298fb7c73\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am not going to challenge the ruling that you made in Part 1, where I did try to seek a call at the very end of that debate. But I get the funny feeling that you may not have seen me stand up or heard me speak when I asked for a call on Part 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba54101855d04e578c9d6cb7c83c8c4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba54101855d04e578c9d6cb7c83c8c4f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I did see the member stand up and I chose to let the Committee determine whether it would take a closure motion. I saw that. I then was very careful on the next occasion, as I will be now, as I put the question that Part 3 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f11d14664bf9457d905fa02de6194bfb\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d404420d76714d68bf0aa4e99e9268ca\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Are you seeking the call? I call Clare Curran.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022487e5bd4d07b4e579b006b6fe62e5ee3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022487e5bd4d07b4e579b006b6fe62e5ee3\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E For the second time! I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I accept that I do not have the loudest voice in this Chamber, but I have on two occasions now stood up here and said: \u201CMr Chair\u201D, attempting to take a call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5944c9055ee4a78bfce5ef8c255ec1f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I did not see the member stand when I looked around. I did not see the member, and I looked around. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aabff277dba64b42b7045c2f4917f537\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I accept that I am not the tallest member in the Chamber either, but I have on two occasions now stood here and said: \u201CMr Chair\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285f80dbd2ec046d7a1490ef46de05e29\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: In regard to a call? Because I asked whether anybody was seeking a call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022908f63d96a854b1685ef296c5aa96ed7\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: In regards to a call, but I did not have the microphone, and my point is that without the microphone, the Opposition members in the Chamber are compromised unless they have extraordinarily loud, booming voices or happen to be maybe around 6 foot tall. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a949ce2c25684baf8596fca7a9ff889d\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is referring to any calls in Part 2, clearly no one stood, so therefore no one called in Part 2. We are now on Part 3. The member sought a call and she has been given it, so I am not sure why we do not just carry on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1a7b3ed4e194d93b77c68b172e41287\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: That is precisely the point. I actually took the precaution of saying: \u201CIs some member seeking the call?\u201D and looked around. I did the same on Part 3, and I have acknowledged that the member has the call on Part 3, if the member wants that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00221b1e98f3bc8546a6accfaf8451941b48\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b1e98f3bc8546a6accfaf8451941b48\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to take a call on Part 3 of the Regulatory Reform Bill, which, under some duress in the Committee, we are attempting to debate. The point that is to be made around this bill is around the fact that it achieves some measures that are going to ensure that we tidy up, and provides some tinkering around a number of bills, some of which are just being amended, and 31 of which are repealed bills and bills that need to go. As we have heard from the Hon Lianne Dalziel and other speakers, this bill came out of a process that has been ongoing for a number of years. It was the outcome of the Quality Regulation Review that was led by Lianne Dalziel during the former Labour Government, when the first Regulatory Improvement Bill was introduced, which was then an omnibus bill as well, as we are seeing here today a number of years later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThis bill was put in by the incoming National Government under the name of Rodney Hide, and has now been transferred to the Hon John Banks. We have been calling all night for him to take a call on this bill, because there have been a number of important issues and points raised around the impact of this, the savings that it will make, and, I suppose, the bigger regulatory reforms that it leaves out and that are not being covered in this bill, which a number of colleagues have made reference to. We know that annual regulatory improvement bills are a very sensible way to ensure quality regulation, but we have expressed a lot of concern about the process of this bill through the House and how it has been held up, and whether or not it actually achieves anything particularly major. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThere are some issues that it does deal with, such as with those 13 amendments to those particular Acts that it will cover, and I was making reference to the importance of the electronic shareholder participation. Another change that it includes is amending the Films, Videos, and Publications Classification Act, which will reduce compliance costs as well. We received a number of submissions on this during the progress of this bill through the House. This was quite an important issue, which was referred to by submitters who had been requesting changes, essentially, to \u201Cthe Films, Videos and Publications Act 1994 since early 2009.\u201D, and stated that \u201CThe Film and Video Labelling Body \u2026 is currently permitted to cross rate film titles from Australia and the United Kingdom\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6d31466d5514b2c81c1052583f9823f\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The member, with all due respect, appears to have moved on to Part 5 of the bill. We are debating Part 3 at the moment, so just keep this brief and to the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259df757952054adea0dabad0104b7e0a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fea7492c2ac34d689738243be39ad549\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: With reference to Part 3 of the Regulatory Reform Bill, the Companies Act 1993 is one of the 13 Acts that are being amended. Actually, there are a number of Acts that are being amended, and the Companies Act is just one of them. The Companies Act is from 1993. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222135928a778043c38a041c81bc6559ea\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: What are the other Acts though?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c069b324f2f4fb58a166c64ef733276\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we have covered off the Agricultural Compounds and Veterinary Medicines Act 1997, which actually Lianne Dalziel spoke quite knowledgably about, I have to say. I think there has been some reference to the Animal Products Act 1999. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI have to acknowledge to the member who leapt to his feet previously, Andrew Williams, that I did actually get ahead of myself a bit by referring to the Films, Videos, and Publications Classification Act 1993. There are a number of issues associated with all of these particular Acts that are being amended, and then, of course, there are the 31 pieces of legislation that are being repealed, because they actually do not exist any more. That does, I suppose, in the context of tonight, when we are standing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u00229698ff307a5b485ba0e23f79a56f2ade\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229698ff307a5b485ba0e23f79a56f2ade\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I take a call on behalf of New Zealand First on Part 3 of the Regulatory Reform Bill. In particular, just to bring some focus on this particular part of the bill, I say that we support this, in that it particularly focuses on the Companies Act 1993 in relation to the use of increased electronics for the servicing of documents on shareholders and creditors, and for the methods of holding meetings in allowing electronic means of holding meetings. That is most appropriate tonight, in view of the electronic limitations that this Parliament has. But this bill specifically allows for companies to allow shareholders and participants of the company to participate in holding meetings via electronic means, such as audiovisual and other electronic communications. So it brings it into line with modern technology, which is a good thing. It allows for shareholder participation by electronic means, in terms of distribution of documents by electronic means as well, including the likes of proxies and other instruments of a company for the undertaking of their business. This is a good thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThis part of the Regulatory Reform Bill is welcome. It just means that New Zealand comes into the 21st century in terms of what would be a modern expectation for companies to undertake their business, and for commerce in New Zealand to be competitive on a global stage with competitors around the world. Therefore New Zealand First certainly supports this. It will help New Zealand be more competitive in global business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 20 in the name of the Hon John Banks to Part 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EPart 3 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002203c77b88c7f94e5196521812a4a53893\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203c77b88c7f94e5196521812a4a53893\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. It might be to the benefit of the other side, but I am seeking a copy of the bill. It is normal practice for a copy of the bill to be on the Table of the House. It does not appear to be the case, at least on this side. That is a distinct disadvantage for members, if they not only cannot be heard, but also cannot see the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da3bb3b92bdf4a2bbdf53f5c3174d664\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you to the honourable member, and we will ensure that that happens. It is being organised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002221578eca468f4062a05a05eb51e8857d\u0022\u003EPart 4  Conservation Act 1987\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fea3cd3ba16a4050bb4043567103e77d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fea3cd3ba16a4050bb4043567103e77d\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I have been addressing the different parts of this legislation in light of the nature of this particular bill that is in front of us today, the Regulatory Reform Bill, which is an omnibus bill. The omnibus bill that we have in front of us today was designed specifically so that parts like this could actually see the light of day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWhat we are dealing with in Part 4 is an amendment to the Conservation Act 1987. There is no way that the Minister of Conservation\u2014and I am not sure who the Minister of Conservation was last year, when this bill was introduced. Was it Kate Wilkinson then, or was it someone else? Anyway, whichever Minister was the Minister of Conservation last year, he or she would never have been able to persuade the Leader of the House to place an amendment of this nature in front of the legislative programme of the Government, ahead of a number of the other measures that it was pursuing. It was only by grouping a number of amendments to legislation in an omnibus bill\u2014which actually I take some credit for, as a former Minister of Commerce. I realised that there were a number of pieces of legislation that needed to be adjusted, but which of themselves were not sufficient to gain a place on the legislative programme. Having been a Minister bidding for a place on a legislative programme, I know personally how difficult it can be. So the idea\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6c02ba69c1b4526a8032650d558a436\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: A very good bidder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbf333ffafe644aa9ad78f6c29bce8da\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: I was a very good bidder, but I was not always successful. Therefore I felt that it was important to have a vehicle that enabled a number of Ministers to basically put these kinds of measures together in an overarching bill, and to bring them before the House. They were never at a low enough level to qualify for a Statutes Amendment Bill, because, of course, those have to be non-controversial, and they also have to have essentially the consent of the whole House. You cannot have individual parties basically saying: \u201CNo, we are not going to agree to that particular measure. We don\u2019t want this change to the Conservation Act going through the Statutes Amendment Bill process, so, therefore, we will not have it in there.\u201D Of course, that was the kiss of death\u2014that was the end of it. Statutes Amendment bills enable those little tidy-up functions to be taken up on a regular and ongoing basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThis particular amendment to the Conservation Act 1987 would never have made the cut for a Statutes Amendment Bill, because it actually had some elements of controversy around it\u2014[Interruption] No, controversy, actually. I suspect that the Green Party is going take a call on this particular part, because I know that there was a concern that the Green Party raised on this particular measure when it was brought before the Commerce Committee. I know that some environmental movement individuals did make some submissions to the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EYou know, it is always difficult to know, after having heard the evidence, whether people felt satisfied with the amendments that we made in the select committee. Of course, the people here in Parliament will have the bill in front of them, and will see that we actually did not make any amendments to this particular part. So it will be very interesting to see whether people ultimately were satisfied with the changes. We did make a slight amendment in order to meet one of the concerns that had been raised. Essentially, it increases the time around concessions applying in the Department of Conservation estate, and I think that that was an issue of substance, and it was an issue that did require a degree of reporting on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EOne of the issues that I think has not been really dealt with in this debate thus far is the fact that there were a number of officials who appeared in front of the select committee every time we were dealing with this particular bill. They came from all the different departments in order to respond to all of the issues. When you look at the whole bill, we had people coming from the Department of Conservation, we had people from the Ministry of Economic Development, we had people from the Department of Internal Affairs, we had people from the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry, and we had people from the Ministry of Fisheries. Fortunately, a lot of people were covered by the Ministry of Economic Development. We had Statistics New Zealand, as well, and we had Ministry of Justice officials. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E The problem that I had, certainly as the Minister who had spearheaded the process, and then as the chair of the select committee, was feeling a sense of frustration that all of these officials felt that they had to turn up for every discussion we had on every part of every bill. What I was trying to do was to get the different departments to maybe collaborate with each other in order to reduce the amount of input into the select committee, which was the whole point of having an omnibus bill. [Interruption] I did feel a sense of frustration. I think my colleagues are sensing how frustrated I felt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EOne of the purposes of the bill was to cut down some of that interdepartmental nonsense, and just allow some of the different departments to actually come together and have other departments represent their interests on these particular matters. But the Conservation Act amendment is certainly one of those that probably did require the input of the department, so I would not include that in my general comments. On that note, I think that is sufficient on Part 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d67359aca08d4964ae59c6945cce7876\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d67359aca08d4964ae59c6945cce7876\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Certainly the Green Party supports other aspects of the Regulatory Reform Bill, but, as Lianne Dalziel has noted, we have concerns about Part 4. That is because Part 4 would allow existing concession holders to continue to operate, even when the concession term expires during the process by which they are applying for a replacement concession. That is not so much an issue, because there is a similar provision in the Resource Management Act, and it does seem sensible because it prevents business disruption while the application is considered, if you have an existing concession. But where the difficulties are is that it would also allow a concession holder whose concession term has expired, and who has then applied for a replacement consent that the Minister of Conservation has declined, to continue to operate until the Minister has reconsidered his or her decision. That potentially means that quite high-impact activities like mining\u2014with the access agreements and the like, and the facilities that go with the mining\u2014could continue, even though the Minister had declined the concession application on reapplication. It is the fact that if the application is declined by the Minister, then it should cease. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EOne of the major concerns about the bill is also clause 51, which provides for new section 48AA to be inserted around regulations prescribing time limits for applications. There is no provision in that clause that the regulations are made on the recommendation of the Minister of Conservation. Given this Government\u2019s agenda\u2014clearly flagged in the Department of Conservation\u2019s statement of intent\u2014that the department should increase business activity on conservation lands and increase concession revenue, this clause 51 would potentially allow Ministers like the Minister of Economic Development to push the department to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ce73f11cbf04c92b08ae40b3f05121c\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: There is no Minister of Economic Development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8a41d7769224d0e97341bdc04385121\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014for Economic Development\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022916fae628043406786c3eda7b49cb6f9\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: There isn\u2019t one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225de1620c717245adb8b0383172cfdce9\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Mr Joyce\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a209b7d62504dd7bbd6a28410d8e6dc\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Hon Mr Joyce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbb1a4fca4f442d586b0dc5def910785\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Hon Mr Joyce\u2014push for regulations that constrain the department\u2019s decision-making process. We are seeing two major tourism development applications for concessions in the Te W\u0101hipounamu - South West New Zealand World Heritage Area, Fiordland National Park\u2014one for a tunnel and one for a monorail. They are very complex applications with a number of potential effects. The provisions here are for regulations to set out time limits, to prescribe a time limit by when the Director-General of Conservation has to respond, and to provide for the consequences of not meeting that prescribed time limit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EHere we see the Government potentially introducing regulations to penalise the department, in the same way that it has introduced changes to the Resource Management Act to penalise local authorities in terms of them not meeting the time limits for processing consent applications under the Resource Management Act. It potentially restricts the department\u2019s ability, through these regulations, to properly consider serious applications and their impacts on public conservation values, recreational values, and ecological and landscape values on the conservation estate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIn trying to be constructive here, there is Supplementary Order Paper 23, which is in my name and which proposes some changes to clause 51, new section 48AA, to provide, before any regulations are made, that they are recommendations from the Minister of Conservation. Also, the Minister has had to have had advice from the New Zealand Conservation Authority, which is the statutory body that provides advice to the Minister and has a range of representatives from organisations like the Royal Society, the Royal Forest and Bird Protection Society, Local Government New Zealand, iwi representatives, and members of the public. The New Zealand Conservation Authority is a statutory body providing advice to the Minister, and it would be a useful safeguard and a check on this power to constrain the department\u2019s consideration of concession applications around time limits and other matters, if that was on the advice of the authority, given that these time limits are not set out in the substantive bill itself but are being done by regulation, which the public cannot contribute to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00227b141abf3d9e4435b6fb2e5a63277bd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b141abf3d9e4435b6fb2e5a63277bd8\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just advise members when they have finished speaking that they pass the microphone back to the attendants. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u002294df2a139a6c4fd4b647f88842eb2812\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294df2a139a6c4fd4b647f88842eb2812\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Some time ago tonight, around 10 past 8 or thereabouts, I was asked to leave the Chamber. I seek some clarification. I was watching on TV\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb265cbf61e1455d930d6f4351bcf9e4\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce3c1341f0e94e5abe5ebeadc9ab022c\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, this is a point of order. It is a point of order, so sit down. Sit down. You sit down, idiot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022badbba853ad2451dbff6e3df37c5a484\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Can I just advise the member that I was watching when the member was asked to leave the Chamber, and I heard the Chairperson of the Committee say that the member was entitled to come back in at 9 o\u2019clock. I am happy to abide by that previous ruling. Right, now, where were we?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245cf6e8799ad463e834e1e5a81a75572\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying before I was rudely interrupted\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022274a6264dd6340fea6b2a9290b942372\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Will the member please be seated. The member is a longstanding member. He knows that when it comes to a point of order, it has to be terse and to the point. If we get involved in the politics, it leads to unrest in the Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228eb1a93631c74c5d9e330e598b560ee7\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Let us start again. At around some time about 10 past 8\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a8f4eaee71645a289650ee3ac0d6380\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222976703320654717952d9320b4abc11b\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: What is the point of it? If you shut up and listen, I will tell you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291135db1cd9147a8aaf3763a2b9cb7e8\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Please be seated. Can I just say to members that I know it is a bit\u2014what is the word; I am trying to think of a good word\u2014antagonistic tonight because the microphones are down. I appreciate that and I understand it. But can I say to members that when there is a point of order on the floor, it is to be heard in silence. There have been a number of Speakers\u2019 rulings about what happens when they are not heard in silence. I call the Hon Tau Henare and I ask him to be respectful, because courtesy is contagious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223f310e769b841b9975b4610182bb33c\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: At around 10 past 8 I was asked to leave the Chamber. I was interjecting on Clayton Cosgrove because I could not hear him. All I said to Clayton Cosgrove was: \u201CSpeak up, speak up, I cannot hear you.\u201D I watched the Chairman tell the Committee that I was turfed because I interjected on him while he was standing. Can you give me some sort of clarification on who might be right in this issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u002210119da22ee8477da84e56074633ee2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210119da22ee8477da84e56074633ee2d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just say to the member that it is in the past. It is gone. I understand where the member is coming from, but let us put those things that divide us behind us and move on. I am sure the member is quite capable enough of actually talking to the member concerned and expressing their surprise at what happened, and I am sure that something could be worked out. But at the present stage, I am bound by what I saw when I was watching Parliament. The member was asked to leave. He did so correctly, and there I would like to move on. But thank you for bringing it to the attention of the Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u002242fdf22ff90b46a3b43d8c4b4e3a7d27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242fdf22ff90b46a3b43d8c4b4e3a7d27\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Can I invite you to repeat your ruling using the microphone, because there are those of us who could not hear you, and, of course, it will not be broadcast, as a result of it being unheard in the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u002273247674c14b4077bd776e013c4a1b82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273247674c14b4077bd776e013c4a1b82\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: To be brief, it was basically to say let us move on and I am sure that the member is quite capable of raising the issue with the person concerned. So let us move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8516283d1594c379c43619ee54af6f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8516283d1594c379c43619ee54af6f0\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I thought that, personalities aside vis-\u00E0-vis who is in the Chair, this is a question about the Chair to the Chair. It may be easy for you to move on, but it is me who has got a strike against his name. It was the Chair\u2014not Eric Roy, but the Chair\u2014who turfed me. What I am saying, and what I hold to, is that I believe that I was being thrown out because of my interjection on the Hon Clayton Cosgrove, whom I could not hear. I want to see if we cannot get some closure on that issue. It is not about Eric Roy; I can talk to him any time I want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022670b3002a5014dafb654b79c66cb06e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022670b3002a5014dafb654b79c66cb06e0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just say to the member that I would like to refer him to Speaker\u2019s ruling 79/1, and that is that the member is not in order in reflecting on the actions of presiding officers. I leave it at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u002281ca2e7609df414dba5bd134668548f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281ca2e7609df414dba5bd134668548f9\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. My point of order is not reflecting on the Chair. I am asking for some clarification about why I was turfed from the Chamber. You yourself said that you watched it on TV, and what I am saying to this Chamber\u2014so maybe I should take a point of order and seek leave to make a personal explanation, which might work it out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00229f821a70676744d397678b5a43284c9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f821a70676744d397678b5a43284c9b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member is perfectly entitled to make a personal explanation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002260a6072e2cef4603abc4e051f66f9ff6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260a6072e2cef4603abc4e051f66f9ff6\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I think the Speaker\u2019s ruling that you have referred to is absolutely the correct one. If the member felt that he had been in some way unfairly defamed or that a reflection had been cast on his character that was unfair, he could seek leave to make a personal explanation about that, but he cannot question the ruling of the Chair or subsequently come back and challenge a decision of the Chairperson. But he could, indeed, make a personal explanation if the Committee was willing to grant him leave to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217b59f09a4574d78a29961c2a46404e9\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022baa3cbaf67594bff80ac524038b0254a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022baa3cbaf67594bff80ac524038b0254a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is quite right. He can seek leave, so the member wishes to do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa1945312d51424b85082ec8a76cf4f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa1945312d51424b85082ec8a76cf4f1\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to make a personal explanation with regard to the incident before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fb016d9749a42edb1315a9a10262ee0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is no objection to that course of action being taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a214c2cb2e54a1480be6a4f65e44b10\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair, and thank you to the Committee. Can I make it quite clear that my interjection during the issue in the Committee earlier on tonight was because, firstly, I could not hear what the Hon Clayton Cosgrove was saying in his point of order\u2014not during his speech, not during anybody else\u2019s speech, but during the point of order. When I was turfed by the Chairman I was of the understanding that I was being turfed because of my interjection on Clayton Cosgrove. Given the situation with the mikes, I am not going to apologise for asking the Hon Clayton Cosgrove to speak up, but I want to say, and to put it on record, that any record of this event at around 8 o\u2019clock should be expunged because I consider my record for the last couple of years to be very, very good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 23 in the name of Eugenie Sage to clause 51 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ce4aeb43749b47bcaf59a55e33117a53\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 13\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 12; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 106\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; New Zealand First 8; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002237fffdb3413545128752c31c3878abf9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 107\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; New Zealand First 8; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 12\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002260ee04920b2244f28771ccffeceefcf5\u0022\u003EPart 5  Films, Videos, and Publication Classification Act 1993\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca13870fb99b41cf8ecf537e4f5d6196\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca13870fb99b41cf8ecf537e4f5d6196\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I would advise honourable members that Part 5 is debate on clauses 52 to 76 and the schedule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00228d935c9748bc49b0bacc8bba9c1992b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d935c9748bc49b0bacc8bba9c1992b1\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and my thanks also go to the messengers this evening, who have an extra layer of duties running microphones around the Chamber. It is my pleasure, though, to have the opportunity to speak to Part 5 of this bill, the Regulatory Reform Bill. For all of the rhetoric that we have heard from across that side of the Chamber about how this bill is creating fundamental reform for the business community, how it is cutting through red tape, and how it is making the lives of small businesses that much easier, of all of the elements of this bill this is probably the one where that argument may have some legitimacy for one particular industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe heard at the very beginning much discussion from the member Sam Lotu-Iiga about saving $50,000 per annum through regulation changes to\u2014what was it? Animal or veterinary services, or some other description. This particular amendment, when put in place, will save the Home Entertainment Association of New Zealand $50,000 per week. Let me explain what this particular part of this bill does. It is one very small part, found under Part 5. Clause 55, \u201CConditions relating to display of restricted publications\u201D, says: \u201CSection 27(4)(a)(ii) is amended by omitting \u2018affixed to\u2019 and substituting \u2018displayed on\u2019.\u201D This is the ultimate demonstration of unintended consequence in legislation. This particular small little clause means that when products are brought into New Zealand, the Home Entertainment Association of New Zealand and parts of the music industry are not able to simply affix censorship details relevant to New Zealand on to the exterior of that product. Instead of just displaying it, it must be affixed to the product itself, leading to a very onerous process within the industry in order to do that. The simple use of \u201Caffix\u201D instead of \u201Cdisplay\u201D is costing an industry $50,000 per week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI would argue that that probably demonstrates where something like a Regulatory Reform Bill has a place in this Parliament. It allows us to quickly and easily rectify, I think, a consequence that no one in this Committee would intend, because it is simply a bureaucratic nonsense: if you are displaying the censorship details, then that should be sufficient, whether they are affixed to the product itself or to a plastic sleeve on the outside. Surely this would have been the perfect vehicle to deal with this quickly and effectively, but has it? Absolutely not. When did the Home Entertainment Association of New Zealand first raise this issue? I think members over that side of the Chamber may indeed be familiar with the fact that it was raised 3 years ago with the National Government. It was first raised not with John Banks\u2014obviously not in Parliament at that time, but this is a potted history; it was raised with Richard Worth, who was in charge of this particular area of legislation at that time, in May 2009. Since that time it was raised with Nathan Guy. It was then raised with Rodney Hide, and eventually it found its way on to the lap of John Banks under the Regulatory Reform Bill, the bill that was intended to swiftly move through Parliament areas of reform that are a nonsense such as this for this industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EHow much is it then\u2014quick calculation, any of the Labour members\u2014if we are looking at $50,000 per week for almost over 3 years, I think it would be? Well, roughly, we can apportion the cost of that Government\u2019s neglect on this simple change down to $7 million\u2014$7 million. Do you know that is almost as much as the Government spent on its roads of national significance publicity campaign\u2014not quite, but almost? It is more than what the Government has put aside in its Budget to deal with the recommendations in the white paper on vulnerable children. The industry has paid $7 million because that Government was neglectful in its duty to fix a simple area of nonsense, of bureaucratic nonsense, in our legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThis Government could have dealt with it in another way. Let us not be under any illusion that somehow this was the only option that lay in front of the Government to deal with this particular area of law. Of course, we have heard from my colleague Lianne Dalziel about other options that have existed in the past. Previously, these kinds of changes would have been dealt with in a Statutes Amendment Bill, potentially\u2014a yearly omnibus bill that allows us to deal with substantive issues like this that are non-controversial. This would have been a perfect fit for a Statutes Amendment Bill. Why, then, I ask the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Internal Affairs, was this particular piece of Part 5 not put into a Statutes Amendment Bill 3 years ago when it was raised with Richard Worth, when it was costing this industry $50,000 per week? Why was it that that Minister at that time did not recommend that perhaps it might take some time to pull together this particular bill, that perhaps some of the members ushering it through the House were more controversial members of Parliament, and that it might not be the speediest of processes? Why did Richard Worth not raise that at that time and allow it to be put in a Statutes Amendment Bill? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI would be interested in how many Statutes Amendment bills have passed since this issue was first raised in May 2009. Why did Nathan Guy not make that suggestion to the industry, and, indeed, to the Minister of Justice at that time? Why did Rodney Hide not make that suggestion? Well, I think with Rodney Hide we get a clue. I think we get a clue because at that point the Regulatory Reform Bill was\u2014what was it called back then? It was called the Regulatory Improvement Bill, or something like that. At that time, regulatory reform was one of the main platforms that ACT had in this Parliament. That was one of the only platforms, one of the only points of distinction, that ACT members had as members in this House. The basis on which, I imagine, their coalition agreement was set was that they could have a Regulatory Reform Bill such as this. So it would not have been in their interest to suddenly remove swathes of their regulatory reform bill and put it into a Statutes Amendment Bill, even though that would have saved the home entertainment industry, and, no doubt, the music industry in excess of $7 million had that been done. This industry has paid $7 million for the ego of the ACT Party. That is what this comes down to: the ego of the ACT Party is the reason why this has not moved to another form of passage through this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI would challenge any member on that side of the Chamber to stand up and give me a legitimate explanation, if this was a known issue, why it was not dealt with in some other form much earlier in this debate, because that is what the expectation would have been on this side of the Chamber. I have seen letters suggesting to Ministers that this be rushed through, and it has stagnated for weeks at No. 16, No. 17, and, at times, at No. 20 on the Order Paper. And why did it stagnate earlier this year? Why did it sit there dormant even though it was considered to be relatively non-controversial, even though it had support, for instance, on this side of the Chamber? Why? Well, I would suggest that John Banks\u2019 rather controversial time in this Chamber has actually hindered his ability to represent the people this bill would have a positive impact on through the passage of this bill through the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAs much as that Government may argue that John Banks is able to do his job as Minister with the cloud hanging over him over potential electoral fraud, this bill proves that actually that is not the case. [Interruption] If the member would like to challenge me on what cloud it is that hangs over Mr Banks, then I welcome that\u2014I do use the term loosely. But there is an impression that obviously the Government did not want to be challenged on whether or not Minister Banks was right to continue to hold his portfolios, because if it was not concerned by that, then it would have allowed the Minister to continue\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eedf562ab8e4bafaa5d9cd2f2aa4f6a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Section 5, Part 5 please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022713dac4c033142a4ba0441d104acb415\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to pursue his Regulatory Reform Bill and Part 5 through this debating chamber much earlier than it has. It is only now that we are discussing Part 5, after many, many weeks of Mr Banks finally being somewhat out of the spotlight. And that, I believe, is the only reason why we are now here debating clause 55 of this bill in Part 5 and the conditions relating to display of restricted publications. I urge the Government to continue the passage\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5095a1f2d90459ca92409a474b64b0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5095a1f2d90459ca92409a474b64b0b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I recognise the honourable member Andrew Williams, and advise members that they can interject only on the person who has the floor at the time, not on each other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u00229ab3e2661fba4cc8b800eebee46aa0af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ab3e2661fba4cc8b800eebee46aa0af\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I take a call on behalf of New Zealand First in relation to the Regulatory Reform Bill, Part 5, which refers to the Films, Videos, and Publications Classification Act 1993. It is a little bit like Part 3, which we discussed a short time ago, in relation to improving the electronic regulatory side and bringing new systems and new technology into being. This is the same application in terms of the film and video publications industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EIn this respect it is very clear from the wording of the bill that what this allows for, for instance, is that the chief censor will establish an electronic register for this particular medium and for classifications\u2014and this is from 1 November 2011\u2014rather than as previously, when the classification office used to publish a monthly list of such decisions. Obviously, time has moved on. We are now in the electronic age, and having an electronic register, rather than lists being published on a monthly basis, is a much more efficient method for the industry concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E Also, the industry, as a result of some of the changes in the legislation here, will be allowed to directly print on to the publications rather than be required to affix labels. We are told that just that simple change of methodology of printing directly on to the videos, films, and other publications has the potential to have significant savings for the industry. We are told that in year 1 the savings to the industry will be in the order of $1.3 million, heading towards $2 million by year 5. Therefore, again, this is a sensible piece of legislation that brings both efficiencies and significant savings to the film and video industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EWe have said that New Zealand First will support legislation that is good, sound, and sensible legislation. This is another example of legislation that will help an industry that is very important to New Zealand\u2014our film, video, and publications industry. It is an industry that does need a level of assistance in terms of being internationally competitive and being able to provide film, video, and other such publications to the people of New Zealand at an affordable price. Everything that we can do in this Chamber to assist the industry to do that in a more efficient manner is a good thing. So New Zealand First will support this part of the bill and we commend it to the Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u002236833c0711754fd382285ab9036117bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236833c0711754fd382285ab9036117bb\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Just before I call the next member, can I advise members that I have been advised that the mikes on our desks are now working, so there is no need to have the wireless mike any more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022404d4d827d864a87b8ddca9c9eb1da3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022404d4d827d864a87b8ddca9c9eb1da3a\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to take a call on Part 5 of the Regulatory Reform Bill, and I would like to say that my colleague Jacinda Ardern made some very good points about the amount of money that could have been saved on this issue, on this particular part of the bill, which is around film, video, and publication classification, and how it is a travesty that this bill is going through Parliament only now. I have just done a quick calculation as to how much could have been saved, and it is at least around $6 million or $7 million that could have been saved if this bill had gone through when this issue was first raised with Ministers. Essentially, that represents almost half of the budget of TVNZ 7, which was canned just over a month ago. One has to ask oneself, and one certainly has to ask the other side of the Chamber and the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Internal Affairs, why, if this issue was raised\u2014and I am going to outline specifically what the issue is\u2014it was not addressed at the time, especially if this Government is so intent on regulatory reform and cutting red tape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI would just like to draw the Committee\u2019s attention to what the issue is. It is really about bringing the labelling of DVDs and video games into the 21st century, and creating a harmonisation between the classification of films that are shown at the movies and the DVDs that we watch in our homes. The issue is that most DVDs and some video games that are supplied to the public have to have, as my colleague Jacinda Ardern said, labels affixed\u2014that is an interesting word, \u201Caffixed\u201D; it is not a word we normally use\u2014to them, showing their rating or classification. Currently, those labels take the form of stickers. They are time-consuming and expensive for the industry to actually affix, because it has to do it manually. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWe heard two submissions on this particular part of the bill, and it was explained to us in depth as to how all of those DVDs had to be brought in and reclassified because of this anomaly in the law. The DVDs had to be watched, and if the classification needed to be changed, then new labels had to be affixed, which meant that they had to be done manually. So that is a group of people sitting around, sticking labels on. This creates an enormous amount of cost, instead of allowing the harmonisation of the difference between how the actual movie gets classified with how the DVD gets classified. It also means that consumers\u2014as, I think, probably a number of us have discovered when we go to the DVD store, if any of us still go to the DVD store\u2014can be confused, as the majority of DVDs and games are imported, and yet they carry the New Zealand sticker label and a foreign, printed label. So when you are actually going in and having a look to choose the DVD, often it is a bit hard to tell which actual classification it has. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does is it allows the industry the flexibility to either print or physically affix the labels, which, as we have heard, is expected to result in substantial compliance savings. Those savings are lower than initially estimated, because of the reduction, and this, I suppose, is an issue that does go to the change in technology. My understanding from the submitters who did come to the Commerce Committee is that the DVD industry is still alive and well. Having recently joined a DVD shop myself, I am aware of just how alive and well it still is. Not all New Zealanders are downloading movies illegally from the internet\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1473884bbb44e1289804f08a6f43765\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Or legally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e63d266ab7d8446fba130c160abc074b\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or legally\u2014they actually do still go to the DVD shop. And there is something to be said for going to the DVD shop, especially when you have got children, but the confusion is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002282eba0fed7e64f1d9fdf0466c530a392\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282eba0fed7e64f1d9fdf0466c530a392\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E It is not my intention to take a full call now, but I thought it would be important to acknowledge the role that an individual, single member can have in getting legislation moved along. I want to, in particular, thank Jacinda and compliment her on the work that she has done in Auckland Central and on behalf of the people in the video industry. It is interesting to see, when an individual hears a representation, picks it up, ensures it is considered by the Business Committee, has a bill lifted up the Order Paper, and has it debated in a way as we are doing now, how one individual efficient member of Parliament can cause focus on a piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003ENotwithstanding the fact that my copy of the Regulatory Reform Bill states that the Hon Rodney Hide is in charge of the bill, I think it is probably likely that it is now John Banks who is the member in charge of it. So, notwithstanding the fact that one of the most useless Ministers in the House is in charge of the bill now, we have worked on the basis that another Minister, who could only be more talented, is sitting in the chair and saying nothing in order that the Committee can make progress on Part 5 of the bill, which is something that is important to Kiwis and can save hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for people involved in the industry, the people who are making the purchases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4598cfa12944a1aa3eeb710545fd1c8\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s the only thing that does things for business in this whole bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022777fe3ad6bbb4011822a6457f5465035\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It is the only thing that does things for business in the bill. There could be whole pile of complaints about it taking this long, but what I just want to say is that my colleague indicated to the Business Committee, through Mr Hipkins and me, how important this legislation is. We had had no idea from John Banks about the importance of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228364d5ef427c4c45ab50968b12efd978\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: He doesn\u2019t know about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022421af1262a2f450685eb869e51033635\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: He probably does not know about it. As a result, we are dealing with the Committee stage today, and I am sure that the efficient Government will have it on for a very short third reading tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0b8b55e01ee47f3b5e3156e407ef9a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0b8b55e01ee47f3b5e3156e407ef9a6\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E Trevor Mallard and I are no longer sharing a microphone, but we are sharing a bill, and that was due to the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7878263538b42488278a57155490dcd\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: In her case, it\u2019s normally me paying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225604d73c2f0941ffb73f3d93bb2d9469\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Paying? No, I think that is a little bit unfair of my colleague. I do not think he has paid any bills, but he does owe me big time, so I am prepared to accept that as future commitment to pay a bill. I think there are a few people he should shout for on this side of the Chamber for a number of reasons, but we will not go there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe reason I wanted to speak on this particular part of the Regulatory Reform Bill was that this particular measure is actually the most important measure contained within the legislation, and I believe from the contribution that my colleague has just made that this explains in very clear terms why the Government wanted to see this bill pushed up the Order Paper. As my colleague has said, if the Government had made that clear to the Opposition months ago, we would have, of course, facilitated its passage, because it is a bill that we have all worked on very closely and, actually, very efficiently at the Commerce Committee last year. I have made the point a few times in the Chamber tonight that this bill was referred to our select committee in February last year. I know that the member who was my former deputy chair on the other side of the Chamber is kind of smiling, because he knows how it is\u2014Mr\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211d475fcedc646aea483c1b012cc6bc3\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CLotto Winner\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228303d904bc344cd187c3d7d2159d43d5\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Mr Lotu-Iiga\u2014Mr Lotu-Iiga, sorry. He is not my deputy chair any more, because I am not the chair of the Commerce Committee, and I have not had the pleasure of working so closely with him over recent times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EBut the reason I wanted to take a call on this part is that this particular measure actually goes back quite a long way, and it was one of the things that was picked up in something that I called the Quality Regulation Review when I was the Minister of Commerce. The reason I conducted that review was that Helen Clark, who was the then Prime Minister, said it was really important that we identified what the regulatory barriers to business growth were. So I conducted the Quality Regulation Review, which had a number of different elements to it, but what it identified relatively quickly was that there was a huge difference between the big end of town and the small end of town. Often the small end of town had these little compliance issues that were just standing in the way of them doing good business, and they wanted these little regulatory matters dealt with. The big guys, the big end of town, had stuff like the Commerce Commission. They had things like Part 4 of the Commerce Act. They wanted to do the big-picture stuff at their end of town, but the small to medium sized enterprises of this country, pretty much the backbone of a number of elements of our economy, wanted to see these little regulatory matters attended to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWhat we discovered was that individual Ministers could not get these things over the line. When it came to negotiating the legislative programme, they actually could not get them over the line. This was one of the ones that came up back then and, of course, it was something that ought to have been dealt with after the change of Government in 2008. It did not see the light of day until last year, and now we have had to wait for another term of this Government to have it finally addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Films, Videos, and Publications Classification Act 1993 amendment is the most substantial part of this legislation. It is one that must pass. It actually enables the labelling provisions to be sensible and to be brought into the 21st century, which, I have to say, is about time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 118 in the name of the Hon John Banks to Part 5 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EPart 5 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f15237bd39e04757bd26fcf5a36c2431\u0022\u003EPart 6 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b3ff42ad9559413da5e01a0927f7a1e6\u0022\u003EPart 7  Friendly Societies and Credit Unions Act 1982\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000769\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 20 in the name of the Hon John Banks to Part 7 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000770\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000771\u0022\u003EPart 7 as amended agreed to. \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022df3904f8b56e470eb3e3916acdb75401\u0022\u003EPart 8 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022713d4c72c1374152af288581c37fc940\u0022\u003EPart 9 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b91bf34ce7d5425e8ddc950e130f1a75\u0022\u003EPart 10 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a1cac1955e9a48acbef6188439a98bde\u0022\u003EPart 11 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002214e5f53f42cf4a398fcc8a96c79ebe00\u0022\u003EPart 12 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b948aff7ee3d437bb74e11f5a02a6230\u0022\u003EPart 13  Wine Act\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000778\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 20 in the name of the Hon John Banks to Part 13 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000779\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000780\u0022\u003EPart 13 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220822969fe41b48d48db431ab9e78b5f0\u0022\u003ESchedule agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bb91d125aef64412902fc2e511f07e57\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000783\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000784\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Papers 118 and 24 in the name of the Hon John Banks to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000785\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000786\u0022\u003EClause 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000787\u0022\u003EThe Committee divided the bill into the Agricultural Compounds and Veterinary Medicines Amendment Bill, the Animal Products Amendment Bill, the Companies Amendment Bill (No 2), the Conservation Amendment Bill, the Films, Videos, and Publications Classification Amendment Bill, the Fisheries Amendment Bill, the Friendly Societies and Credit Unions Amendment Bill, the Radiocommunications Amendment Bill, the Registered Architects Amendment Bill, the Statistics Amendment Bill, the Takeovers Amendment Bill, the Unit Trusts Amendment Bill, and the Wine Amendment Bill, pursuant to Supplementary Order Paper 119.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e78907b58a7245558cd4d1daa99c14b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e78907b58a7245558cd4d1daa99c14b2\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I will report this bill with amendment and so divided presently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9225c7a15e94d679b223687af68393e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9225c7a15e94d679b223687af68393e\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I think there is an agreement that the Committee has made sufficient progress and I seek the leave of the Committee that you report progress to date to the Speaker forthwith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022964aa37d9e924f208cc64a8d53ccf359\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022964aa37d9e924f208cc64a8d53ccf359\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: There is leave sought for that. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill with amendment, the Regulatory Reform Bill with amendment, and that the Committee had divided it into 13 bills, no progress on the Trade (Safeguard Measures) Bill, and no progress on the Taxation (Annual Rates, Returns Filing, and Remedial Matters) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022909800e2818b4448ad481d254c0ce576\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d53ccc357e74bf0bf18bcf3cac6567b\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022f76ed3134d794b629ac9bb975ab29705\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f76ed3134d794b629ac9bb975ab29705\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E There having been considerable progress made, I seek leave for you to go to your rest early tonight and to come back again tomorrow afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb6bb1cbaf324344af85b2ef8740e2f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb6bb1cbaf324344af85b2ef8740e2f5\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for the House to rise early\u2014at least, that is my interpretation. Is there anyone opposed to that course of action? If not, leave is granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.50 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201208229e35e7f07fc44749a7ddd59f2f6365f9000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"