"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a82277deda734414ad3485a374438fc8\u0022\u003ETuesday, 11 September 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002285b8835f5290429a9f698c4295964e20\u0022\u003ETuesday, 11 September 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dad878350ae4446da98b7919828ab319\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228929d4eddb2e4af28f87ff8ba35a091c\u0022\u003E2012 Paralympic Games\u2014Success of New Zealand Team\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022 data-id=\u002222b5141fcfcf47419e826f631f72bb4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222b5141fcfcf47419e826f631f72bb4b\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY (Minister for Sport and Recreation):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to move a motion without notice congratulating the Paralympic team on its performance at the recent Paralympic Games.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd92e09ae6e346dab044af2ee48abddf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3d4a69ac100436881099a74c072d2e7\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That this House congratulate the members of the 2012 New Zealand Paralympic team on their outstanding performance, achieving six gold, seven silver, and four bronze medals and finishing ranked 21st in the world. The 2012 New Zealand Paralympic campaign can be judged a real success, and on behalf of the Government I want to acknowledge all of the athletes who were members of the team and congratulate them collectively on their achievement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EI want to mention in particular Sophie Pascoe, who added significantly to her previous successes on the international stage, collecting three gold and three silver medals, and setting two new world records and one new Paralympic record. We saw outstanding performances from a number of other athletes who were part of the New Zealand team. The achievement of 17 medals is all the more admirable when you note that there were only 24 in the team. On top of that, New Zealand has come out as the leading nation per capita, up on third at the Beijing Paralympics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EThe 2012 Paralympics broke a number of records, with 2.7 million spectators filling the various venues and more than $70 million raised in ticket sales. Both of these are unprecedented figures. Two hundred and fifty-one world records were broken over 11 days. For our people to have succeeded in an environment this challenging is a very significant achievement indeed. I am therefore pleased to offer on behalf of the Government our congratulations to all of the members of the 2012 Paralympic team as well as their coaches, support staff, and families, who played such an important part in their performance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe979635bdc547ed8a48b96715f53aa1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe979635bdc547ed8a48b96715f53aa1\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I also would like to join in congratulating our Paralympic team. It was a great moment to able to stand here and say that today New Zealand is on top of the world, and that means that our medal total per capita was actually the best in the world, which is a remarkable achievement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThe incredible performance of our paralympians in London has been something that has made us very, very proud. When our team comes home tomorrow it will bring with it 17 medals: six gold, seven silver, and four bronze. That is an absolute triumph, and it is a significant improvement on the Beijing Paralympics, when New Zealand was ranked third for medals per capita. This achievement reflects the hard work, the dedication, and the commitment of the Kiwi contingent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EI would like to pay tribute to the efforts of the entire team of 24 athletes, from 13-year-old Nikita Howarth, who made her debut in swimming, to Jan Apel, who also made her Paralympics debut, in sailing at the age of 61, which is an enormous inspiration to us all. Our athletes performed brilliantly across all of the events\u2014swimming, cycling, rowing, athletics, equestrian, sailing, and shooting\u2014and I would particularly like to mention the achievements of Christchurch swimming sensation Sophie Pascoe, who won a medal in every event that she entered. It was a proud moment to see Sophie carry the flag into the stadium for the closing ceremony. She absolutely deserved the honour. Our team overall did us proud. I was lucky enough to meet swimmer Mary Fisher at the Upper Hutt \u201Ccossie club\u201D just before she left for the games, and I was struck by her commitment and the amount of hard work that she had put in to get where she was. She went on to win four medals, including a gold. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EOne disappointment for me, however, and, I am sure, for many other New Zealanders, was that we were not able to see many of these achievements of all our team live on television, as people did in other countries. We had to rely on delayed coverage or an international feed that did not focus on our Kiwi team. That is a shame, and I hope it is different for the next Paralympics. To be able to see our athletes triumphing over personal adversity to excel at their chosen sport is an inspiration to us all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003ESo I would like to thank our athletes and pay special tribute to all the unsung heroes around them: the coaches, the physios, the volunteers\u2014all those people who put in enormous amounts of time so they could succeed. Thank you and congratulations on your success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022af47f7520f3942388d0c6e966e36ac39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af47f7520f3942388d0c6e966e36ac39\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to add the Green Party\u2019s congratulations to our Paralympic team. To compete at the elite level in any sport requires determination, commitment, and sacrifice. Our Paralympic team had those attributes in spades. These Paralympics perhaps mark the point not only in this country but in others around the world where Paralympic sport is seen as elite sport in its own right. That is a great milestone to have reached. I share the concerns that David Shearer has just expressed about the decisions made by the sports editors of our media. I cite Richard Boock\u2019s column in the Sunday Star-Times where he noted that the media had misjudged the public mood, our desire to actually see our paralympian team competing on the world stage. Our team has been an inspiration to people living with disabilities. They have been an inspiration to those of us who look out the window and decide we do not want to go to training, because it is too hilly, or it is raining, or we just cannot be bothered. They have also unlocked a gateway for the New Zealand public in that we may finally now honour the rights of people with disabilities to be full members of our own society. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00228698c54185884aa29ddc285c892605cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228698c54185884aa29ddc285c892605cd\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E The London Paralympics were a great success and particularly so for our New Zealand team. New Zealand First stands with all parties here today in congratulating our paralympians on their efforts and great achievements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccc8a0ac26f94c7b84a2a4f6c52998b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccc8a0ac26f94c7b84a2a4f6c52998b2\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E I am really delighted to be able to share with every party in the House today the pride and excitement that we have experienced over these last 2 weeks with the amazing success of the New Zealand team at the London 2012 Paralympics. Yesterday as I landed at Whakat\u0101ne Airport I arrived at the same time as a reception was being extended to welcome home Ng\u0101ti Awa and Te Arawa mountain bike superstar, Karen Hanlen. In reflecting on her meteoric climb to the London Paralympics, she said her approach was built upon the philosophy that pain is temporary and pride is for ever. It is a philosophy that every single one of the 24 New Zealand athletes who competed at the Paralympics has demonstrated in abundance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThese stars of many sports, including cycling, shooting, swimming, and shot-put, have shown the world that even when others have said they could not, the determination of these athletes revealed that they could, and they are. In doing so, they have lifted our collective pride. They have shown us all what we are capable of if only we believe. Our Paralympians are true champions, for they have persevered. They have withstood every challenge and they have invested every moment of their lives in representing Aotearoa on the international sporting stage. In doing so, they have shattered stereotypes and shifted perceptions. They have demonstrated that it is not the disability that defines them; it is the way they deal with the challenges that that disability presents them with. Within the disability sector we often talk about the aspiration to live a good life, an ordinary life, a life unburdened by the stigma and discrimination of a disabling society. The New Zealand Paralympian squad goes that one step further, and reminds us that the only difference between the impossible and the possible lies in the spirit of determination.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThere have been some truly remarkable achievements in London. The talents of Sophie Pascoe left us in no doubt of the power of having a dream. Phillipa Gray, Mary Fisher, and Laura Thompson were not content with the honour of a gold medal; they went on and won silver and bronze as well. These are truly multi-performers. The former Disabled M\u0101ori Sportsperson of the Year, Cameron Leslie, not only earned gold in the Olympic swimming pool, he is also a member of the New Zealand Wheel Blacks\u2019 successful rugby squad. Each of our 24 stars and each of their coaches and managers, and their families around us, could teach us all about the power of positive thinking. The M\u0101ori Party applauds the New Zealand Paralympic squad for, and congratulates it on, their amazing success. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022 data-id=\u0022215d582b87d64b4d9ce7bbf392a4c671\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022215d582b87d64b4d9ce7bbf392a4c671\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BANKS (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E The extraordinary television coverage that we saw on the news at night was of the elation of the New Zealand winners with their gold, silver, and bronze medals. The sheer elation on their faces said everything about the quality of themselves, their family supporters, their team-mates, and the whole of the country. I rise on behalf of the ACT Party to give our warmest congratulations to the New Zealand Paralympics Team on its outstanding achievements in 2012. The team brought home a total of 17 medals, including six gold, seven silver, and four bronze. Per capita country entered, it must have been one of the highest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EThe Paralympians are an inspiration for all of us. They live with disabilities that many people would think would hold them back, but instead they have gone on to participate and succeed in sport at the very highest level. I hope their success is of particular inspiration to young people living with disabilities, who need to know that they can achieve anything with the support of the community, with the support of their families, and with the support of their country. Swimmer Sophie Pascoe is to be congratulated on her remarkable success in the swimming pool. She alone won half of New Zealand\u2019s total gold medals. I am reminded this afternoon of my old friend from Whangarei Murdoch Ross, who has cerebral palsy. A sign on his wall, which has been there for the last 50 years, says it all, does it not: \u201CObstacles are what you see when you look away from the goal.\u201D This attitude has truly done New Zealand proud at the Paralympics 2012. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc196ea3d9d545438218bd01826f7a5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc196ea3d9d545438218bd01826f7a5e\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of United Future I want to associate myself with the comments that others have made to congratulate our Paralympic team on its remarkable success at the London Paralympic Games. I imagine that many people felt that, coming on the back of the successful Olympic Games, it would be very difficult to, firstly, mount a level of interest in what would happen at the Paralympic Games, and, secondly, to match what we thought was an extraordinary level of achievement by our able-bodied athletes in London. But in many senses our paralympians have surpassed them\u2014not only Sophie Pascoe, who must be probably our most successful Olympic athlete ever, in terms of her medal success both here and in Beijing, but also the team as a whole. This was a proud achievement by a committed and dedicated group of New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI share the concern expressed by the Leader of the Opposition and others that it was just a pity we did not get to see very much of it on television. I sincerely hope that television bosses will take that lesson on board when it comes to covering the next Paralympic Games, because these are athletes of high quality, high dedication, high commitment, and high skills. It was comforting and, I think, almost flying in the face of the lack of coverage that New Zealanders as a whole embraced the team over the last couple of weeks. Despite the anonymity of what we were seeing, we got to know about these athletes and their successes, and encouraged them in their ongoing endeavours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EMy warmest congratulations to them. They have done their cause, and our cause as a country, extremely proud. I doubt there will ever be a team anywhere that will go away with such small numbers and come back with such a high proportion of medal success as our paralympians. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d55e915ff62439e9d3e48be4d12ee0b\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002299966043dee54aad9195479049c93412\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223aa775b1a925444db7c0f4d18519e8c0\u0022\u003EEconomies, International\u2014Effect on New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u00229e980b37086f4e079a0ae5962e977579\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e980b37086f4e079a0ae5962e977579\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What advice has he received on the impact global economic developments are having on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8d3b8c224644aaebfab139b18112106\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8d3b8c224644aaebfab139b18112106\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The global outlook remains uncertain. Europe, in particular, continues to grapple with longstanding problems of excessive debt, with significant decisions being made in Europe this week. It has, however, demonstrated an ability to maintain stability while dealing with deep-seated long-term problems. Growth is expected to be maintained at reasonable levels in our second-largest trading partner, China. The outlook for Australia is less positive than it was, but it still remains one of the faster-growing developed economies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dde5ef873be4a759263619f38f64cdf\u0022\u003EHon John Banks\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The parliamentary Opposition during the answer from the Minister was yapping out \u201CTidy yourself up. Why don\u2019t you tidy yourself up?\u201D. I make no comment about that, but I think you are doing a great job and should berate them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022261bd95240674e2a97a762bd61a49bbd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member does remind members in the House that when they say \u201Cyou\u201D they are referring to the Speaker. I did look at the member who made that interjection. He seemed unaware of what he had actually said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022377d73cd4b814074a278f5d1eb222b46\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. If you look at the question, it asks the Minister what advice he has received. Well, we are still waiting to hear what that advice was. We heard just his opinion of how the rest of the world is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022600edccf9c144aeea46465bb3c79c908\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, one assumes that that is the advice he has received.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abbe9ef621dc4e56bb4339aed70b4e90\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You might assume that, but for the rest of us and the country, we would like to know what advice he got and where he got it from. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287c9e78372dc4a679765c0d80993cb1e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! A point of order has been raised. Had the question asked what advice he had got and where he got it from, there may have been a different answer, but the question did not actually ask that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261bacf4122344f828a46f2e610fb2923\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was what advice he has received. You could pad it out by saying \u201Cand from whom and what day did you get it?\u201D, but, strictly speaking, it is a simple question. I would like to know what advice he received, not what his views are on the international economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aee3bdd09c74bb3a954c115eb28abf3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! During question time the right honourable gentleman has absolutely that right to ask that question. He can ask specifically for the source of the advice received. That is absolutely why supplementary questions are allowed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207e0d1ffb73f42eaa51d0f14c9b0f4a3\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: In the light of New Zealand\u2019s increasing economic links with the Asia-Pacific region, what are the immediate prospects for APEC economies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6628f1ef957477fa2451f2d7e5336fc\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The immediate prospects for these economies on our doorstep are reasonably good. The IMF is forecasting growth of 4.2 percent for the APEC area in 2012 and 4.5 percent in 2013. This is considerably faster than developed economies, and compares with forecast world growth of around 3.5 percent. Ten APEC countries will grow by 4 percent or more this year, which means that in those countries there will be more people with bigger incomes who are willing to pay more for our products. That is good news for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdc956440fed4a96b66e10bfa16382ee\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: How are international observers viewing the immediate outlook for China, and how will this impact on New Zealand\u2019s growth prospects?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242aa84583a2147b5a3987a53436919cf\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This Minister has no responsibility for international people\u2014none at all. If he was asked about advice or reports or something like that, he might have responsibility, but we have been told that we have to be straight and down the line, and have questions within the Standing Orders and Speakers\u2019 rulings. When they are written patsies, there is no excuse\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220873e8fe8f704a3bb87398849de02a3a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member was fine up until that point. The member makes a perfectly reasonable point that Ministers can be asked their opinions about matters, but if there is no direct responsibility for what they are being asked about, probably the question should refer to advice or reports that the Minister may have received.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022153d216bea53402cade9eb73df4371a2\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The second part of my question, and I will just repeat it, asked how this would impact on New Zealand\u2019s growth prospects. I think that is a very fair question to put to the Minister of Finance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229768acbfa8b543cba24bd3bfa14a1ded\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member makes a fair point in response. The latter part of the question indeed asked that, and that is absolutely within the Minister\u2019s responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aed1f0770954514aff91d8e52974ebd\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Given that it is among the fastest-growing economies in the world, what happens with China does matter to New Zealand. There seems to be a range of views, but a general view would be that China\u2019s growth will be a bit lower this year than it was last year, partly because of the impact of lower demand in Europe. The way this impacts on New Zealand\u2019s growth prospects is that it is our second-largest trading partner, and Chinese demand for our products will determine our income, to a significant extent. China is Australia\u2019s largest trading partner and remains our largest trading partner, so how Australia does is affected by China.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dbbf701a6574f0d80016a62abe1f332\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he received on New Zealand\u2019s economic prospects, given the significant challenges faced by economies in other parts of the world?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226234b1fd24b24fc493b7f766d9f8c3de\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I recently met with representatives of credit rating agencies Moody\u2019s and Standard and Poor\u2019s. They have noted the good progress the Government is making in getting its own finances in order and returning to surplus, while many other countries face many more years of deficits and rising debt. They note that our moderate growth rate and our positive household savings rate compare favourably with that of many other developed countries, but they reiterate our need to reduce our high levels of household debt, which remain as yet New Zealand\u2019s single-biggest vulnerability to international economic events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c28408c5f67445eb084938e2bacd96e\u0022\u003EExchange Rate\u2014Commentary and Potential Consequences of Devaluation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5f0e69ddff744e9aebf5d9c93eda0a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5f0e69ddff744e9aebf5d9c93eda0a3\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with the New Zealand Manufacturers and Exporters Association, the International Monetary Fund, and the Reserve Bank of New Zealand that the New Zealand dollar is overvalued?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00226fd6a4bdbf764de5a43ab0bbc59c0824\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fd6a4bdbf764de5a43ab0bbc59c0824\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E We do agree with their level of discomfort about the high level of the New Zealand dollar, but we certainly do not agree with the view held by the Manufacturers and Exporters Association that the New Zealand dollar should be devalued to US60c. This would amount to around a 25 percent devaluation, implying an exchange rate against the Australian dollar of just 58c. That means a drop in income and living standards across the board in New Zealand of about 20 percent. If they think there is a gap between us and Australia now, then following the Manufacturers and Exporters Association call for a 25 percent devaluation, that gap would widen into a chasm and thousands of New Zealanders would be leaving for Australia because of its much higher standard of living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022096d511a44c64f3b81fcbf614084b332\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with John Walley, Chief Executive Officer of the New Zealand Manufacturers and Exporters Association, that the overvalued dollar has cost the exports sector up to $10 billion over the past 3\u00BD years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022990f620668ea4ff9b9d733f098ed3e2d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not agree with that. We do agree that the high level of the exchange rate does put a lot of pressure on exporters. The Government is taking every measure it can to exercise its indirect influence on the exchange rate to help our exporters be more competitive. But we do not agree with the view of New Zealand First, the Manufacturers and Exporters Association, and the Labour Party that the New Zealand dollar should be significantly devalued. That would cut the incomes and the standard of living of all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3a5c38b4e1d4bebb9cfdffa5c9b4532\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Will he acknowledge that the overvalued dollar is contributing to rising unemployment, with hundreds of jobs being lost in the export sector every month\u2014for example, the 100 jobs recently lost at T\u012Bwai Point, the 120 redundancies at Solid Energy\u2019s Huntly East mine, the 100 jobs set to go at the Kawerau mill, or the up to 400 jobs that hang in the balance at Spring Creek Mine, all because of an uncompetitive exchange rate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022285dcd5846764d169438a86b8a71da1c\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: All of those job losses are regrettable but probably unavoidable. What we owe to the people who have lost those jobs is to continue to support the many businesses that are creating jobs. In the last 2 years this economy has created 50,000 net new jobs and over the next 4 years we expect about another 150,000 net new jobs. In an environment of relatively low growth rates and grumpy growth, some companies will be shedding jobs, and more other companies are growing jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022641388b1e1b14c9faf22fb6a8cc22732\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that under section 17 of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act the Minister of Finance may, for the purpose of influencing the exchange rate or exchange rate trends, from time to time, by notice in writing to the bank, direct the bank to deal in foreign exchange within guidelines prescribed by the Minister in the notice, which is not certainly you, because you have got no experience whatsoever in this area?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298b835d8888f4f44bd2fb216f085c094\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the member is correct about what is in the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act. However, it would be irresponsible of any Minister of Finance of New Zealand to instruct the Reserve Bank to try to achieve what he, the Labour Party, the Greens, and the Manufacturers and Exporters Association want, and that is a 20 percent devaluation of the New Zealand currency. That would be extremely risky for the New Zealand taxpayer, but, worse than that, it would cut the standard of living of every New Zealand household by 20 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d0adcd8690c489e88f699d79183a2f7\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: If an inflated exchange rate lies at the heart of our exporters\u2019 problems, our external deficit, and job losses, why will he not do anything about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb2cb0a2f144422ca033102ba7b327bc\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: What lies at the heart of their challenges was the very poor economic policy under the Labour Government where, up to 2008, New Zealand lost competitiveness at a rate among the worst in the developed world. This Government is having to work very hard to re-establish that competitiveness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245bb70f496dc4ff7930d3e697cb4e2bf\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement that New Zealand operates \u201Cbest-practice\u201D monetary policy, or does he now accept that the economic objectives of the Reserve Bank should be widened to include more than inflation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3621351d1654279a827445aa360a77b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do stand by the statement, and if the member read the policy targets agreement he would see that it does encompass other economic objectives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f281a8182bd24e30b2da6bc1a4a5b43f\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was whether the economic objectives of the Reserve Bank, which are actually laid out in statute, should be widened to more than inflation, and the Minister has not addressed that part of the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293658fefcd6543ad9fdd88b2422e37a8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will allow the member to repeat his question if there is uncertainty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c4efad95f754ca68394e35d2562271b\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement that New Zealand operates \u201Cbest-practice\u201D monetary policy, or does he now accept that the economic objectives of the Reserve Bank should be widened in the statute to include more than inflation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022441eae0f981246a8afdb4afe9f8cc4fe\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the Minister, the Minister actually answered the first part of that question. It is a shame the member did not restrict his question to just the last bit, if he wanted that answered. The Minister answered whether he stood by the\u2014[Interruption] Order! I gave the member the benefit of the doubt; I should have trusted my initial judgment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258f746659e3b43d5b2b1a31fade250b9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: In the light of the Minister\u2019s first answer, and given that he does have the power to do something about the overvalued dollar, when will he stop Nero fiddling whilst New Zealand manufacturing, New Zealand exporting, and New Zealand jobs continue to burn?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b60c82993cd47c5b139cb65bfd2b4dc\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As I have already said, the Government is working across a wide range of fronts, from infrastructure to skills, to supporting exporters in our export markets, and to sorting out the allocation and use of our natural resources, all as mechanisms to assist the competitiveness of our exporters. However, we do not intend to pursue a devaluation of the New Zealand dollar that would cut the living standards of New Zealand households by 20 percent, as advocated by the Opposition parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278a704dd7ccf4c5c9d19f1a6774d7c60\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Given the extreme urgency of this issue, I seek leave for the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill to have its first reading immediately after question time today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211821cba7a9e45bea22ba331c01febf6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002213514b3a018741e89466d3e91301fdea\u0022\u003ESchools\u2014Supplying Food to Students\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u00222ec093a03cbd4e1cba971433d5b9e237\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ec093a03cbd4e1cba971433d5b9e237\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement in relation to food in schools that \u201Cmost of those decile one to three schools have that and are dealing with the issue\u201D; if so, is he therefore satisfied that all children attending New Zealand schools are having their nutritional needs met and are arriving in classrooms ready to learn?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00226269cb056a9246408742896018db0b05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226269cb056a9246408742896018db0b05\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Acting Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, the Prime Minister stands by his full statement, which was that \u201CIn my experience, most of those decile one to three schools have that and are dealing with the issue. But obviously, you\u2019ll see with a number of schools [for instance] on the waiting list for the KidsCan \u2026 that more needs to be done.\u201D I also noted that the Government provides fruit in schools\u2014indeed, all decile 1 and 2 primary and intermediate schools are able to opt into this scheme\u2014and the Government provides funding to KidsCan for its food for kids programme. As the member will know, we all want children to have their nutritional needs met and arrive in classes ready to learn. The Government is keen to help where that is required, but the fundamental responsibility lies with the parents of those children to feed them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e5bc41bfaef4dbdb7ca91249bac1b88\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen comments from the principal of Finlayson Park School in Manurewa, who said that she is spending $9,000 a year to feed hungry students and \u201Cthat\u2019s $9,000 not being spent on teaching and learning\u201D, and is this what he meant when he said schools were dealing with the issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acccc875267d4a668c95a3559d136c01\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I have not seen those particular comments, but I am sure that principal is doing everything she can to lift the achievement of those children. As the member should know, it is important in the case of feeding children that the Government provides support where it is required but does not act in a way that takes from families the responsibility for feeding their own children. I know that the member does not believe it is their responsibility; he wants all children to be fed at school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228829ab00ffc74800aec8631d64365acc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is sufficient.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f5f45981b8b4cbfbb375e0cdc22179a\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: How does arguing about this issue resting on parent responsibility, which we all agree on, solve the problem tomorrow morning when more than 80,000 children will turn up to school hungry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd05260d78db4917bfcc0d4034b248bb\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I have outlined the range of careful measures the Government is taking to provide help where it is most needed. We do not intend to go down the track of taking from families the responsibility to feed their own children. It is a fundamental responsibility of a parent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226eb6960d01b04ccaa378825944feba34\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Given that his Government is spending $560,000 on sports equipment for private schools and just $320,000 on KidsCan, on feeding kids in schools, does he believe he has his educational priorities right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b2f129771c94b3f926cc1d4a69a9fdf\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we do have our educational priorities right. We have committed $9 billion, actually, to the funding of achievement in State-run schools. What we recognise and that member does not is that it is important that the Government does not act in this area in a way that undermines the responsibilities of families to feed their own children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b5f14f2953641a68862695434a8d969\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: In light of his comment on fruit in schools, is he suggesting that if a kid turns up hungry at school and is given a piece of fruit, that child is equipped with the nutritional needs it needs for the rest of the day?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211310aecc1064214a3a43b5aa3624983\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: In some cases it might be. There are children who do have fruit for breakfast. In fact, I thought under the previous Government\u2019s Healthy Eating - Healthy Action programme it was trying to make our children eat fruit for breakfast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a37584d83cfe4fd688978b8c66b9a831\u0022\u003ETertiary Institutions\u20142011 Performance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u00220df34f7c0a804e0383bddfe57a63083e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220df34f7c0a804e0383bddfe57a63083e\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills and Employment: What reports has he received regarding the performance of the tertiary education sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u002284a4458b59c0457e83ca00867e00a3d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284a4458b59c0457e83ca00867e00a3d4\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E On Thursday last week I released the 2011 tertiary education performance data. The information shows that the universities, polytechnics, w\u0101nanga, and private training establishments have once again improved their course and qualification completion rates as well as their student retention rates. Course completion rates across the tertiary sector have risen from 77 percent in 2009 to 82 percent in 2011, with qualification rates over the same period increasing from 62 percent to 71 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208a62200cef446e5b08416e2d21e4626\u0022\u003ENikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: What has the Government done to help the sector achieve these results?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d72a933f5cc409fa29be4ff70170528\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has incentivised better performance by providers by introducing performance-linked funding based on educational performance indicators including course completions, qualification completions, progression to higher levels, and retention. We have also published on the Tertiary Education Commission website the performance information for all providers for the benefit of students, their families, and other stakeholders. The Tertiary Education Commission has supported the focus on performance by taking a more active investment approach, and withdrawing funding from poor-performing courses and also from short award courses that do not result in formal qualifications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db30d56c303a4b499bcaec4362e937ad\u0022\u003ENikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: What information has he seen regarding the performance of M\u0101ori and Pasifika students in the tertiary education sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d11c6b2a4ee4810b2a6835e370d19a0\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: A recent report by the Tertiary Education Commission highlighted that the results for M\u0101ori and Pasifika students have greatly improved. Particularly pleasing is the strong increase in M\u0101ori and Pasifika course and qualification completion rates, which have increased more than the overall sector average. M\u0101ori course completion rates are up 9 percent from 2009 to 2011 and qualification rates are up 7 percent. Pasifika course completion rates are up 9 percent from 2009 to 2011 and qualification rates are also up 7 percent. There is still more work to do, but this is very good progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a2d1736b3c2e4a6ca0f01d4c1fd76b0b\u0022\u003EChild Poverty\u2014Financial Support\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffc64d1a903c4e2582d4a81d00e650a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffc64d1a903c4e2582d4a81d00e650a2\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement, \u201CI don\u2019t think that [universal child payment] is at all likely; we went away from that some years ago. In New Zealand we have a very targeted system through Working for Families.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022dacb7394a53f422eb0d5b3db5f561768\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dacb7394a53f422eb0d5b3db5f561768\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Acting Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c21e6ce025444e4b3f153c97416c8d3\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: How does the very targeted in-work tax credit child payment system, which he claims is better than a universal payment for children, help the children of New Zealand\u2019s poorest families whose parents do not work enough hours to qualify for that child payment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c27de67f411244d2a72b706261f11af0\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Those families the member is referring to are, of course, on benefits or are the recipients of the guaranteed minimum family income. The in-work tax credit was designed by the previous Labour Government as a payment for those who were in what was then defined as full-time work. So, by definition, those who are not in full-time work do not qualify for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b3b053abde6476db66c0b3f41eee21e\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: If, as the Prime Minister claims, very targeted assistance is better than a universal child payment, will he then support my bill, which specifically targets a child payment to New Zealand\u2019s poorest children whose parents cannot find enough work, because unemployment is so high?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227413e86e48414a898b3c254ac7c1d338\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The answer is that the Government will not be supporting the member\u2019s bill. But she is giving a misleading impression that children in households where the parents are not working are not the recipients of a child payment. Of course they are, as part of the benefit payment. The member can argue about whether that payment should be larger\u2014I suspect she thinks it should be\u2014but there are child payments per child to beneficiary households.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225339f4eedb17452f952cd1141cf222af\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: How is it fair to the children of families in Christchurch, for example, who lost their jobs due to the earthquake that they lose both their employment income and their in-work tax credit child payment? How does that give those kids who need it the most a good life and a fair future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ff63fbeaee04797b2b26145565053b7\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: For families in Christchurch it is difficult when they lose their jobs, as it is for many other families where a job is lost. There is income support in place for those families, which includes child payments. As I said before, the member can argue whether they should be larger, but child payments are incorporated. The in-work tax credit was designed on the principle of \u201Cwork first\u201D\u2014a principle that I see has recently been endorsed by the Children\u2019s Commissioner\u2019s expert group. It is designed as a payment to families to encourage full-time work, and appears to have been successful in doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a5ddfe4abce4a45b566aea7fb00aefb\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister not agree that the in-work tax credit child payment has failed to provide sufficient support to those families who need it the most and the children who need it the most, because parents who might work but do not qualify for enough hours do not get access to that payment, leaving more than 200,000 children in families who do not qualify and who live well below the poverty line? Is that not a failure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222bc70142f8e48f99b51c4f6eaacbb64\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It is not a failure of the in-work tax credit, because the in-work tax credit was designed by the previous Government\u2014supported by the National Party at the time\u2014as an incentive to work. That appears to have been successful. If the member is concerned about the absolute level of income of those on benefit, then she is quite free to advocate that there should be larger payments. But the in-work tax credit is there for a particular purpose, and we do not intend to change that purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a782aa2a1d09431da530bc5e6c4cb077\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Prime Minister opposing all the options for a child payment that will reach the poorest of New Zealand\u2019s children, including the universal child payment that has been proposed by the Children\u2019s Commissioner for those children zero to 6 years old, and a targeted child payment, as proposed in my bill, that will go to the children of the poorest families, when he knows that 270,000 children are living in poverty\u2014a situation that his Government is making worse? When will he step out of la-la land and do something for the poorest kids?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f24984c338d44740be06af4676e8ca7d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I will not deal with each of the member\u2019s propositions, but the universal payment proposed by the Children\u2019s Commissioner\u2019s expert group is, I have to say, a bit unspecified. The group itself recognises that it would have to be paid for, and I think it believes it could be paid for by reducing assistance to families a bit further up the income scale. When the expert group reports to the commissioner, who then reports to the Government, then, of course, we can consider all its propositions. The Government\u2019s focus for low-income families is on dealing with those factors that would lead to persistent poverty and vulnerability. So, for instance, the Minister for Social Development has announced the social obligations, which are part of the encouragement for those who are on benefit with children to get their children into early childhood education, and part of the encouragement for them to look for appropriate part-time work and to get the kinds of skills that will help them lift income. So we have a strong focus on those families being able to get work as a top priority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cd6ea7a5cc74fe79d0fc7c01ba4db0b\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has the Minister received about the impact on low-income working families of a shift away from the current targeted arrangement to a more universal payment in respect of children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292921a6337d0473782c471c869e83241\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I have not asked for particular advice on that, but I think I could guess what it would say. It would say that a move from a targeted programme to a lower universal payment would leave many low-income working families worse off, to start with, and, secondly, would leave them in a less beneficial position, relevant to being on the benefit. It has been a focus of social policy, regardless of party, in New Zealand in the last 20 years to ensure that the reward for work is significantly greater than the income that one can receive on benefit. We intend to maintain that policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cac8c37a78974c16a08228136d73dbb8\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Why on earth is the Prime Minister opposing any solution, whether it is increasing the minimum wage, food in schools, a universal child payment for some kids, or a targeted payment for the poorest kids? Why is he refusing to support any solution that will help the children he knows are in the worst poverty in this country? What did those kids do to deserve his Government\u2019s neglect and derision?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f076c09e25424802950fed6db8910fcf\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I find those comments offensive, actually. The Government is actually dealing with a wide range of complex issues to ensure that people have the opportunity to lift themselves out of the position they are in where they are on low income. The real danger to children is persistent deprivation that goes with low income. That is a relatively smaller proportion of the 200,000 she refers to, and the Government\u2019s measures, particularly in welfare reform, which is a very comprehensive programme, are designed to promote mobility for those families. But, again, I would deny the member\u2019s assertion that the Government is treating these children with neglect and derision. That is typical of the kinds of exaggerated claims she makes to try to get into the political debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226fc1d6fa6fb14e68925e50e83a50cb68\u0022\u003EWelfare Reforms\u2014Outstanding Arrest Warrants and Requirements for Parents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u00228d45b2bb3a194ccd809a7539962c8bb6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d45b2bb3a194ccd809a7539962c8bb6\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: What recent announcements has she made on the Government\u2019s comprehensive welfare reforms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u002264397471796644efa1d44fa760bb0b79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264397471796644efa1d44fa760bb0b79\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Today we have announced that as part of the Government\u2019s welfare reforms we are introducing social obligations for those beneficiaries with children. These social obligations will require that their children are attending 15 hours a week early childhood education from age 3, attending school from age 5 or 6, and enrolled with a general practitioner, and that they complete core Well Child / T\u0101mariki Ora checks. I believe these obligations are reasonable, achievable, and reflect the expectations of most New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223742c78cb4ff4e569b4ddf60ffc2e46f\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: How will these new social obligations ensure education and health services benefit vulnerable children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022804d8698afc4416c8c5ac4862330be24\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Many of our most vulnerable children are dependent on adults in the benefit system, and this is an opportunity to make sure we give these children the best start in life. Research shows that only 40 percent of DPB recipients and only 60 percent of those on the unemployment benefit with a child of early childhood education age were attending early childhood education. We want to get that number up. That is one of the reasons the Minister of Education, Minister Parata, is targeting early childhood education attendance and has made it a key result area, and certainly I am happy to support that with this initiative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268b70cfbc6bf40bb95ed02d281f5edb6\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Does every child in New Zealand at age 3 have access to early childhood education today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4be3a665ae0422c817ca6be2691c425\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: No, and that is why we have said with the obligations that if there are barriers that people cannot overcome, we want to try to help them do that. But if they have got access and they are not taking it up, then there may be sanctions further down the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbed8b355ba04decbae376d3538c5ba8\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: What requirements will there be for parents who are not on benefits to fulfil her social obligations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022808a025c91ec4142b4fc6395df34d878\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, the Minister of Education is putting quite a targeted approach around those who are not actually attending early childhood education, in that there is a requirement, and it would be very helpful for them to be there. This is about those who are on benefits. We know that many of these children are our most vulnerable and do need that kind of support. We can put this lever in, and we are. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2385c314bb746d49782dd32ae9518dd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I want to hear this next supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dae80942ed2420c8fdeba58a314dc4e\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: What other announcements has she made that make changes to the welfare system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022782d7b0f0bbf4693872d80161441735e\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It is fair to say that it has been very comprehensive. Last week we announced that people with outstanding arrest warrants will no longer receive the benefit while evading the police. If someone has an unresolved arrest warrant, we will stop their benefit until they do the right thing and come forward to the authorities. The truth is that at any one time there are 15\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249ec52f87e334db9ab388149ca6692df\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Close though I am to the Minister, I can no longer hear her answer, given the level of interjection. It is not reasonable. All members have a right to ask questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264d83a2679654c43898ebf0e6444658a\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly the Opposition can call out, but this is what is called doing your job. That party actually did not do it for 9 years, so there is a lot for me to pick up and actually get right in the welfare system. So if it had gone back and done this many, many years ago, as should have been done\u2014at any one time there are 15,000 people in New Zealand with more than 37,000 warrants, and, of those people, 8,200 are on a benefit. We are effectively paying them for being on the run from the police. I think that is disgraceful. I think it is disgraceful that that party let that go for 9 long years, and it is time that this Government actually tidied that up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e69fba093bd4aa0bed67633f2706a6e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 7, Grant Robertson. [Interruption] Order! I want to hear this question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226b8b9668e27c450992a6e339d622c02c\u0022\u003EEnvironment Canterbury\u2014Postponement of Elections\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd09ee531ac845a098042d2ab6300e00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd09ee531ac845a098042d2ab6300e00\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Local Government: Does he agree with the statement by the previous Minister for Local Government, Hon Dr Nick Smith \u201CUnder any circumstances the next regional council elections in Canterbury will take place no later than the elections scheduled for late 2013\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u002274298fbad0394a1b859570165bab13b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274298fbad0394a1b859570165bab13b3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E I did at the time. Nick Smith made those comments in March 2010, and although it may have escaped the attention of the member, we have had since then four major earthquake events in Christchurch. The member will also know that the quote he just read out from Nick Smith went on to say this: \u201CThe explicit intent is for the commissioners to withdraw and be replaced by elected representatives as soon as their task is achieved and the present systemic issues are resolved.\u201D The commissioners are doing an outstanding job and have made good progress, but the job is not yet complete.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffde39ac9cde4b69aacd901d685ff1fd\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: How can it not be a broken promise to the people of Canterbury that they would be able to elect their own regional council, when the former Minister said that under any circumstances elections would take place in 2013?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022698eac8bd24249e4acbf00180ddf522a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Because, as I have just said to the member, Nick Smith went on to say: \u201CThe explicit intent is for the commissioners to withdraw and be replaced \u2026 as soon as their task is achieved \u2026\u201D. Because of the earthquake event, because progress is still not finalised around the Canterbury Water Management Strategy, that job is not yet complete.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ab845f5033a4f6e90f7542752ad1644\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: To whom are the commissioners running Environment Canterbury accountable: his Government or the people of Canterbury?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a893747d64a045d39205806ceaf4be57\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: At this stage the people who are responsible are the seven appointed commissioners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b8ae87b1ee244b7b7337d12e0192e66\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister may not have heard the question clearly. The question asked to whom they are responsible: the Government or the local people of Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022678dcbc08b564c04a0111290ecd86ff1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise. I did not hear the question properly. The commissioners are responsible both to the Government and to the people of Canterbury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc3835d16e6f43d89a0c5d0bc85b1a17\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Is he familiar with the phrase \u201CNo taxation without representation\u201D, and why does he think ratepayers in the Canterbury region should continue to pay rates when his Government is denying them the right to be democratically represented at a regional level?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff96c5855d454d4ca226258780b41116\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Because of the circumstances. Those Cantabrians had been asked to pay rates to a regional council that was the worst-performing regional council out of 84. They had been asked to pay rates to a regional council that an independent report concluded was ineffective and dysfunctional.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b38db46ce6df47599dc2a0b864b0b7e2\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister give an undertaking to the electors in the Canterbury region that they will be given the opportunity, through a comprehensive consultation process, to have a say on the main options for the reform of local government in the region before the Government introduces legislation to end the local democracy - free zone there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022965d8c693f3445d6b203553386635827\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: It is the intention of the Government to have the legislation put before the select committee. That will be the opportunity for Cantabrians to have their say. It is worth noting that at this stage the only negative comments I have seen have been from the Labour Party, the Christchurch Press, and two former disgruntled Environment Canterbury councillors: Eugenie Sage and Kerry Burke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d595914feec6405dbb98f7ed2b9b8e75\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the statement \u201CElections are central to democracy but they are not always, on their own, a magic or quick-fix solution.\u201D, made by Frank Bainimarama, and which does he think is likely to occur first: elections in Fiji or elections for Environment Canterbury?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022470acd26802743a592133e1d3d112cce\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think there would be any Government that wanted to roll over local democracy, but when local democracy is not working, as was the case recently with the Kaipara District Council, Governments have to act. I note that in the case of the Kaipara District Council there was absolutely no criticism from Grant Robertson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b747a0d7e304aa0975781943426beff\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I appreciate my question had two parts to it, but I do not think the Minister addressed whether he agreed with Frank Bainimarama, or whether elections were going to happen in Fiji\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db4ce8ee77fc4fc5861cd5dc90abfa81\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Given the nature of the question the answer was not too bad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c70781c6e3e4809b6eec7ba9c9aa3c2\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It was a serious question, but what I am wondering is whether there has been some effect on the Government benches of your borrowing your tie from Mr Ryall.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad6e92b9d45a42238ab1452db8136b54\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I do not see how that is a point of order. The question that was being referred to was asking for an opinion, and a precise answer is never possible when an opinion is being sought.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c74e9e6b5cb4c0ba5e08e20e8cff811\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any reports that show that the performance of Environment Canterbury has dramatically improved since commissioners were appointed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206c8bc3590cd4c60a1594144198dbca5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I have seen a report that showed that this council under the commissioners processed 92 percent of resource consents within the statutory time frames in 2010-11. This is a massive increase from just 29 percent in 2007-08 under the former model. I am also aware of a number of very positive reports from a wide range of stakeholders in relation to last week\u2019s announcements, including Ng\u0101i Tahu, Local Government New Zealand, Federated Farmers, and a large number of mayors from the region. They all stated that the commissioners have been a dramatic improvement and have done a fantastic job. As I mentioned earlier, the only negative comments that I have seen are from the Labour Party, the Christchurch Press\u2014and that would be of little surprise to any of us\u2014and two former disgruntled councillors\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bb0f2923b2e49e38bc721b85da8cf57\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member should not be making those sorts of comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022857babade09e4d7abdde1bfa13affd3f\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister not agree with his own department\u2019s advice, and also the advice of the Ministry for the Environment, that there be a return to a fully locally elected democratic body under a transitional plan; if he did agree with that at any point, why did he change his mind?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecc7b34d5193417da5dc0434a92f346e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of advice from officials that suggested a hybrid model as a transition. I am waiting to see the full report from the Land and Water Forum as to what recommendations it makes with regard to all regional councils around New Zealand. In the meantime, officials gave advice to Cabinet, and Cabinet gave it very full discussion and concluded that remaining with the commissioners was the best option for Cantabrians.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236cb2fff181c41c7af461e3f780d41f5\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Given the Minister\u2019s response, he obviously has not read it. I seek leave to table the regulatory impact statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022474629d5e2ea4c6497bade37bfc110a7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002285c57b7bf35f4a26902d21bf54e322d3\u0022\u003EThreatened Species, Protection\u2014Increase to Penalties for Smuggling\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u0022286a1b1ae4ba4002b3ebe33a2d42b7c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022286a1b1ae4ba4002b3ebe33a2d42b7c3\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National\u2014Christchurch Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Conservation: What progress has been made to deter smuggling of our threatened species?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022e03fc269940c40b3ac04a423adcc26c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e03fc269940c40b3ac04a423adcc26c2\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Given that this week is Conservation Week, I am very pleased to inform the House that Cabinet has agreed to tough new penalties for those who are caught poaching or smuggling our native wildlife. The changes will increase the maximum penalty for smuggling native animals such as tuatara, parrots, and geckos from 6 months\u2019 imprisonment or a $100,000 fine to 5 years\u2019 imprisonment and a $300,000 fine. These new penalties will send a clear message to smugglers that taking our precious wildlife will not be tolerated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022def94bb5acca4913a963279d559408a4\u0022\u003ENicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: What other steps will be taken to help protect our threatened species from poachers and smugglers? [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c02d062e646490590bfcac57bbaf0ad\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Before I call the Minister, it is absolutely unreasonable to start interjecting before the Minister has even opened her mouth to answer. It is totally unreasonable and discourteous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b1527af10cf48f4b2f751f5cd877567\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: On top of increasing the fines and prison terms, Department of Conservation rangers will be provided with additional enforcement powers to ensure that smugglers can be more successfully caught and prosecuted. All of these changes will take effect through an amendment to the Wildlife Act, and I look forward to support from across the House for this bill once introduced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226df602c7e779481a90d176ab944e063d\u0022\u003EUnemployment\u2014Projected Rates and Industrial Sector Jobs \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u002277cde7a60ead4b8c92ad84cad59b6034\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277cde7a60ead4b8c92ad84cad59b6034\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E To the Minister for Economic Development\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f24d90578af409595669f1ccd3ce38e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I have just in one breath admonished members of the Labour Party for making unnecessary interjection before a Minister had opened her mouth. Now I have called a member to ask a question and the National Party is interjecting before he has even started to ask his question. That is not courteous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u002272a664e07fe143f3a602f8aac9688888\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272a664e07fe143f3a602f8aac9688888\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Development: What was the level of unemployment forecast for 2013 and 2014 in the downside scenario of Budget 2012, and what is the level of unemployment for 2013 and 2014 as forecast by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment last week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022a975a18915b741f5b9eb17107c499c4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a975a18915b741f5b9eb17107c499c4b\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E The answer is 6 percent and 5.7 percent, and 6.2 percent and 5.9 percent. There are, in fact, a range of forecasts from different Government agencies. Treasury\u2019s main forecast is for 5.7 percent and 5.2 percent, and the Reserve Bank\u2019s current forecast is for 5.5 percent and 4.8 percent. I am sure that somewhere within that range of numbers will be the right answer when it comes to pass. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022779b42f9b65a44f385a99becff1ab608\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: How many jobs were lost in the June 2012 quarter, to the nearest thousand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290c33bf0b14a4617b3a570ab96240c82\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I do not actually have that number on me. There was a slight decline, but over the last year there has been a very significant increase in the number of jobs. There is no doubt about it, it is a dynamic market at the moment. We are currently seeing around 250,000 jobs created every year, and slightly fewer than that being lost every year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e1f68b782ff430a99cabf2332d564c6\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question, as you will appreciate, was a very straight and direct one. It followed directly from the primary question. The question was about how many jobs were lost, not how many jobs were created. Perhaps the Minister could answer if it was to the nearest 10,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224333a692e8cc4cc09962d47174428137\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister said that he simply did not have that information. There is nothing that the Speaker can do about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285047c5eb1934157b018fcffcddb939b\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: What discussions did he have with Norske Skog prior to its decision to halve production at its Kawerau newsprint mill, with the loss of 100 jobs, and did he offer any form of Government assistance, as the Australian Government has done; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022020c1f51720143ab9806feb6db84f810\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I was briefed by Norske Skog at its Kawerau operations as part of one of my many regional visits around the country. It did not seek any Government assistance. It made it clear that it was contemplating this change, which it then subsequently\u2014very shortly later\u2014announced for the first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0c97bdf458546e0bfa7ad9cd9849a3d\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Did he offer any?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3ce299de56f4baa95060b3170df73b1\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to the question of whether we offered an additional subsidy to retain the newsprint production is no. The member may or may not be aware that the newsprint industry is in decline. What we are working on with Norske Skog is development opportunities for its geothermal and wood resources in other industries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8a1d29969ff4202bc943f9ee5a0b336\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he respond to the Kawerau job losses by saying that Norske Skog is \u201Cvery keen to grow their investment in biofuels\u201D, when one of the first acts of the National Government was to cancel Labour\u2019s biofuel obligations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dab51a4477b4f19a88dd0584905e911\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, every day businesses and industries go out and invest in their businesses without requiring Government subsidies. In fact, that is generally the preferred way, unless you want to send the taxpayers into the poorhouse. We do try to seek to assist where we can in the research and development space, but just running biofuel subsidies for the sake of it means that you would develop an industry that was not otherwise economic. These people believe that their industry can be economic, and I encourage them to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bad12191d774dbe93117e9ce2fd6917\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, is the Minister prepared to subsidise casinos and media companies he used to own while leaving major manufacturers like Norske Skog and Fisher and Paykel, and all their employees, to face the cold winds of an overvalued exchange rate and a Government that is missing in action?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022481af8abfe08440bac438b818b1431df\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: There are about six questions in there from the member. Let me address one or two. Firstly, we are not seeking to subsidise casinos. We are seeking to set up a conference centre in Auckland, exactly the same as the previous Government did. Secondly, on media companies, we actually made a loan at the height of the global financial crisis at market interest rates. In relation to the overvalued exchange rate, if the member is advocating following Mr Walley\u2019s advice and dropping the New Zealand exchange rate by 25 percent, and seeking to actually reduce New Zealanders\u2019 standard of living and purchasing power by the same margin, he should just come out and say so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c96d0d3deafd415aa24fa92edd1b0907\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statements that John Whitaker, Chief Executive Officer of respected Dunedin exporter Farra Engineering, \u201Creally does need to go and have a look around\u201D and is \u201Cungracious\u201D, and if he does, should Mr Whitaker visit, for example, the Huntly and Spring Creek mines, KiwiRail\u2019s Hillside workshops, Norske Skog\u2019s Kawerau mill, or APN\u2019s various operations, which, like so many other manufacturers, have lost jobs in recent weeks?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec4d51d8adaf4e33b9fe56ba4677ad7b\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would advise him, for example, to go and see Tait Communications in Christchurch, Southern Cross Engineering in Christchurch, Orion Health, Xero and its growing business, and Methanex in Taranaki, and to talk to Bathurst Resources about what it is seeking to do on the West Coast, talk to Marsden Point oil refinery for the upgrade there, or talk to IBM and Unitech Industries, which are setting up 400 jobs together in Auckland. The point is that we are in a very dynamic economic environment, which we are always in, and what the member is seeking to do is to protect jobs that have become uneconomic. It is very tough for the people involved, but, fundamentally, the newsprint industry is going slowly out of business over time, with things like iPads and iPhones. I appreciate that the member wants to prop up declining industries; we do not think that is the way to go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e49fbafd2b0647a1989ea6b10a8f8431\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any new ideas for increasing jobs in the manufacturing sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224ced0ad5e08464c994f33546f7ada0b\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am not sure about new ideas so much as reheated, failed, old ideas from around 40 years ago. I have seen a proposal from a Mr Walley of the New Zealand Manufacturers and Exporters Association to somehow bet against the world markets with taxpayers\u2019 funds and seek to devalue the New Zealand dollar by roughly 25 percent. That would reduce the purchasing power of every New Zealander by around 25 percent. It would increase food prices, fuel prices, and the cost of living by around the same margin, and massively widen the income gap with Australia as the result of a 58c exchange rate against the Australian dollar. If the members of the Opposition want to sign up to that prescription, then it is over to them, but I cannot think of a more destructive economic policy for this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220691acbeb5e7414f9116ac916987e0ac\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Off my piece of paper\u2014is it a higher priority for the Minister to preserve jobs for New Zealanders, including those at Solid Energy, or is it a higher priority for him to reduce costs and tidy up State assets for sale into the mixed-ownership model?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b38b299e69b04b11af771cf266fac60f\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The absolute priority of the Government is to work with Solid Energy on that case and actually give it the opportunity to be successful financially, full stop. The fact of the matter is that the business is struggling at the moment as a result of a sudden change in international coal prices. The challenge is that the Spring Creek Mine is one of its more expensive mines, but it is working very hard with the union and the workers at Spring Creek. We are hopeful of a positive outcome, but it is very tough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dad5ea51a824447859d8e8455c21cf3\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table Budget documents showing the $2.1 million subsidy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aae930d053314764a5d60dbbc7cea5fa\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member knows that we do not seek leave to table Budget documents, which are available to all members of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b4185c28e5b42ad802333e899292b6a\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I understand that rule. Your ruling is that it is not proper to table documents that are freely available, but the Minister said that he had not subsidised Skycity Casino\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ecd8cb228174881b34df91ffdc358ba\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Look, the member is now seeking to litigate an answer by way of a point of order, and that is just not on. That is totally outside the Standing Orders. Budget documents are available to all members\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226065c773f7a549868b0321fa8ba9161a\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker\u2014a separate point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a807cdfb3d00410fbce3eba1d508a549\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if you wait a moment first. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cfd5a7844164fe589bc936d9b9c44a5\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document compiled by the Parliamentary Library, which tabulates 4,188 recent job losses at workplaces including Canterbury\u2019s Design Line, Yarrows, Colorado Group, Pumpkin Patch, KiwiRail, Hurlstone Earthmoving, Pacific Aerospace\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022828fdd4e0e9349e585af5bdba6f6e721\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? [Interruption] Order! The House has got a sufficient guide to what the document is. Is there any objection to that document being tabled? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dcbecf199ce3409ca765109117025edd\u0022\u003ECensus 2013\u2014Preparations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022bfa058d378ef472c9cb483338d7a5aa9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bfa058d378ef472c9cb483338d7a5aa9\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Statistics: What progress has been made in preparing for the 2013 Census?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u00225b9a32ec589a4826be33ec3be0636c75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b9a32ec589a4826be33ec3be0636c75\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (Minister of Statistics):\u003C/span\u003E There is very good news for the House on this front. Following the cancellation of the census last year because of the earthquake, I am happy to tell the House that we are now less than 6 months away from the next census, which will be held on 5 March 2013. Statistics New Zealand has begun recruiting 440 district supervisors across the country, and in total around 7,500 census staff will be recruited across New Zealand\u2014about 7,500 census staff will be recruited. They will be gathering information from the estimated 4.6 million people in approximately 1.8 million households. The good news\u2014and this is fantastic news\u2014is that this time we are expecting a very, very large percentage of all census forms to be filled out online using the internet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022352044b7013648338f5047efaf437ead\u0022\u003EIan McKelvie\u003C/span\u003E: What is being done to ensure that census information is available for decisions on electoral boundaries before the 2014 election?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022978091c669ab485bb3c6c4ff60fbb424\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, I know there will be huge interest across the House on this. Statistics New Zealand has been working very closely with the Electoral Commission and Land Information New Zealand, and, as a result, we have an agreed detailed time line for the 2013 year covering the Representation Commission process. I am pleased to inform the House that this work means that the Government Statistician will be in a position to announce the number of general and M\u0101ori electorates for the 2014 and 2017 elections in early October 2013.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022720d9cbf877e4ab89f3b1f2127429638\u0022\u003EEnvironment Canterbury\u2014Postponement of Elections\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u002202cc93a85f3a42e8af394c25c226d8b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202cc93a85f3a42e8af394c25c226d8b4\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Local Government: Does he think it is fair to require Cantabrians to pay around $78 million in regional rates annually with no elected regional councillors deciding how to spend those rates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022bce828be35154b9894e897d5fc38785f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bce828be35154b9894e897d5fc38785f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E In view of the extraordinary circumstances that Canterbury faces, yes. What was not fair was for Cantabrians to have to pay rates money to a regional council in 2008 that was rated the worst out of 84 councils in New Zealand. What was not fair was that those Cantabrians had to pay rates to a regional council that was consistently described as ineffective and dysfunctional, and when every mayor in Canterbury signed a letter to the Government expressing a vote of no confidence in Environment Canterbury and its councillors, including the member asking the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231e663065387466c870e364e5d2a2d9c\u0022\u003EEugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: Is the cancellation of regional council elections for what will be 6 years consistent with the statutory purpose of local government \u201CTo enable democratic local decision-making and action by, and on behalf of, communities\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226fa1564eb5f4e63b26e2e38f9d06b59\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in an earlier answer, it is my wish that local democracy works, but in a case like in Canterbury, where the regional council was not working, was dysfunctional, and was ineffective, the Government had to act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220885157213cb4c51a3749e0008791b08\u0022\u003EEugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: If he trusts the citizens of other regions to elect regional councillors who can provide \u201Cstable, effective, and efficient\u201D planning governance, and if he trusts district councils in Canterbury to elect district councillors, why does he not trust Cantabrians to do the same for their regional council?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f55bc3e097f5457c92998fd204a9bf7f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Because I am aware of no other council in New Zealand about which a report was presented to the Government that made comments like \u201Cthe extent of the gap between the capability of ECan and what is required for it to adequately manage freshwater issues is enormous and unprecedented.\u201D, or \u201CECan\u2019s performance \u2026 falls well short of what is essential.\u201D, or, further, \u201CThis failure requires comprehensive and rapid intervention \u2026\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9dd6d6ae9c3468b9642a9aafd9ece4a\u0022\u003EEugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: Given that commissioners have been appointed now for the last 2 years, what progress have they made if he is still harking back to 2010 and the failings he considers the council had then? What progress have commissioners made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022364f3946d9144e8bb737dcfb2f8985b0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The commissioners have made tremendous progress. They have recently published the Canterbury Natural Resources Regional Plan, they have recently published the Proposed Canterbury Land and Water Regional Plan, they have recently made significant progress with the Canterbury freshwater management strategy, and they have significantly improved the relationship with key stakeholders. As I mentioned earlier, they have dramatically improved the compliance with statutory consent time lines. These commissioners have done a fantastic job. The job is not yet completed, but the member should recognise that progress is being made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002286a51eed691d4867a8b6027ea82c3068\u0022\u003ESchools, Attendance Costs\u2014Donations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u002283e3b1f7d9b144ef9bf784d1bd59e7c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283e3b1f7d9b144ef9bf784d1bd59e7c7\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour\u2014Hauraki-Waikato)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does she stand by her answers to parliamentary written questions that show parents are paying 30 percent more in school donations since National took office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u00226bb306aa0e444ce1ae995ca9b86bd255\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bb306aa0e444ce1ae995ca9b86bd255\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I stand by my answers to written questions, but, to be accurate, they related to all donations, not only parents\u2019 donations. As I am sure the member is aware, the level of school donations is decided by individual schools and their self-managing boards, in the context of our spending a record $9.6 billion on schooling and early childhood education this year, despite fiscal constraints.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223093329a2de8419d83ca6410b521d26c\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: How does she respond to the real cost of education, which has outpaced Government funding, resulting in parents of mid-decile schools paying an average of $30 more for each student in school donations than in 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212e32de0a01041c5bc39d8786bb86231\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, we are investing $9.6 billion in education this year. That pays for all the teaching and leading, property, curriculum resources, and operational grants. If boards decide to have supplemental activities and they work with their communities for donations of that kind, then that is a matter that is decided by those individual schools and their boards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022432421446cec497994175d07d624322f\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Given that schools are relying on donations to fund core programmes like Reading Recovery, is she concerned that children at low-decile schools will miss out because their parents cannot afford to pay school donations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022040ec8072cb047219d6b064bb810c73c\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: That is inaccurate. Reading Recovery is paid for out of Government funds, not by donations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022627c18def50f4c7598b2802dc314bcdd\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a written question\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4a5dda88ab54f23a11e11fa47b31848\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! A point of order is being considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e0f7f7753f540e99d4ae352f2bc3e67\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an answer to a written question, which is not on the website, that shows that for the period 2008-09 school donations increased for mid-decile school parents and decreased for decile 1 school parents. This is not available on the website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291789a92940149c3b4ac91d42dbe2b3d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table this document. It is alleged it is not available on the website. Is there any objection to that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0be1441cb2b42b4b7757fce09e005ce\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it not available on the website? That\u2019s a fair question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f36e58e15cf641f8b88924da400442b2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Let us just deal with this. Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f48d3d3dced54f638373098d1aa10b3a\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: How does she reconcile that under the Government an extra $35 million in taxpayer subsidies is going to private schools, which account for just 4 percent of New Zealand students, while public school parents are being forced to stump up with an extra $23 million to cover schools\u2019 rising, real costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022413990d88cd94aa2b527d687659b0a31\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand has long had a tradition of providing a diverse range of educational options to parents, of which private schools constitute 4 percent of the 100 percent of provision. We continue to invest $9.6 billion this year into Vote Education to fund all of the costs associated with the delivery of the curriculum in all schools in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279d4cd8145f049e3a34819f831e211b6\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee7896c3a3c74112895683c32faaad06\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I believe that the Labour Party has exhausted its allocation of supplementary questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022071c7148a230461980548759dd1a6e3c\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to ask another supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffedb0cca1e04f5f80b09fb80451c683\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to ask a further supplementary question. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225926946ad6f746aaabf9f561a121d872\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just want to raise an issue with you with regard to answers to written parliamentary questions. Where a Minister lodges an answer saying that they cannot provide an answer within the time frame, and that they will provide the information subsequently, and so on, and then sends that information directly to the member concerned, it is therefore not made publicly available. Your rulings have indicated that we should not be seeking to table information that is available through that system, but where an answer is provided directly to the member, not through the system\u2014because the Minister has lodged a placeholder answer saying that they are not able to provide it\u2014is it acceptable for us to then seek leave to table it in the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022684951003c6d45119b4519f3a8984834\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member raises a perfectly reasonable point, in my view. To me, what I probably should do is investigate why the second answer is not actually made available on the website. It would seem to me that that is the more helpful answer to the original written question asked. I will undertake to investigate why it is not being\u2014I accept what the member is saying that probably at the moment it is not being put on the website. It seems to me that that would be the best way to deal with the problem. But in the meantime I have no problem with the member seeking leave to table a document that it was alleged was not on the website. The House made its decision, though, in respect of that leave. But I will undertake to try to make sure that we get all those answers on the website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dbf5a870395649e3b4c2ddbead1875e7\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226c5a66164c5941889b8aed7dfb099d53\u0022\u003EState-owned Energy Companies, Sales\u2014Delay of Mighty River Power Sale\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee835a15183645b8a0465388dffe4a5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee835a15183645b8a0465388dffe4a5f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a letter from the Hon Clayton Cosgrove seeking to debate the Government\u2019s decision to delay the initial public offering of up to 49 percent of Mighty River Power until March-June 2013. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022103d8220d0c54889b83b16e2ddd71985\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022881c2d650d394ba1a3005a34d0ce1c0b\u0022\u003EEnvironment Canterbury\u2014Regional Council Elections\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2abd7555ba14e4283fd610cffedec6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2abd7555ba14e4283fd610cffedec6d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have also received a letter from Grant Robertson seeking to debate the announcement made by the Minister for the Environment and the Minister of Local Government that the election for Environment Canterbury will not occur until 2016, with a review occurring in 2014. These are both particular cases of recent occurrence involving ministerial responsibility. I would have been inclined to accept either one of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EHowever, there can be only one such debate on any one day. The Standing Orders provide that in these circumstances the Speaker must determine which is the most urgent and important. I have concluded, given the more immediate significance of the Government\u2019s decision to delay the sale of shares in Mighty River Power, that it should have priority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003ELegislation has now been introduced to implement the Government\u2019s decision to extend the Canterbury Regional Council\u2019s governance arrangement and special water management decision-making powers. Consideration of this bill will provide an opportunity to debate the timing of the next election for Environment Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225238216e43e44e398185aae56cb5ec14\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002283829684d8ba40fcaf706567bcfd8791\u0022\u003EState-owned Energy Companies, Sales\u2014Delay of Mighty River Power Sale\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002261a7b005f5224eb09163c9a77f1b69ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261a7b005f5224eb09163c9a77f1b69ce\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I therefore call on the Hon Clayton Cosgrove to move that the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00229f974621ae0a497eab2ff5e0be2ebc56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f974621ae0a497eab2ff5e0be2ebc56\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance. As Gerry Brownlee sort of cackles across the aisle, the people\u2019s assets are in jeopardy. We know that to be the case, and we also know that the people\u2019s assets are in jeopardy because of a Government that is now based on John Key\u2019s political vanity and John Key\u2019s pride, because the whole of the asset sale process has been stuffed up and mismanaged from start to finish. So now what we are down to is not even, I suspect, ideology. We are not even down to ideology. We are down to that Government trying to protect and sustain John Key\u2019s pride that, come hell or high water, he will sell the people\u2019s assets, beginning with Mighty River Power. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe interesting point about this process is this. You would have thought that John Key, the \u201Cfifty million dollar man\u201D, and I mean that with no disrespect, the financial whiz-kid, who probably has more experience in floating companies and initial public offerings than any member of this Parliament and many in New Zealand, would see this process for what it is and would\u2014wrong though he is, because the people do not want their assets sold off\u2014get this process right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7fd2525f42b45c2bacc5740e6b8f5c1\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Would members leaving the Chamber please do so, so that the member addressing the House is able to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f9e7baafba24da99b539fd4b1dd4d5f\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: A person of John Key\u2019s financial experience, a person who purports to maintain the public\u2019s confidence, a person who has massive commercial experience, one would have thought\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b33782e2dc6647eebd9ae3ccbdd4f56c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Even a junk bond dealer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e767c6e593a4228864fe2d8bb7acf04\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014even a junk bond dealer, as Mr Peters reminds me\u2014that he would get this process right. We know, of course, that when the legislation was put in this Parliament he was warned about the significant issues, as was Mr English, as was the State-owned enterprises Minister, and as was the Government as a whole. They were warned that you could shoot peas through the ownership cap. They were warned not to rush this legislation. They were warned about the issues that face M\u0101oridom in respect of property ownership and maintenance of rights. They were warned by T\u016Bwharetoa, when they came to the Finance and Expenditure Committee and told that committee\u2014and they were lawyered up\u2014what they believed about the clause, as it was then, based on section 9. That clause was negotiated by the weekend warriors in the M\u0101ori Party, who went around the marae saying that they had done the deal with National, that this would all be all right, and that M\u0101ori interests and rights would be protected. Then National said: \u201CYes, we\u2019ve done the deal. These interests are protected.\u201D T\u016Bwharetoa, of course, before the Finance and Expenditure Committee, warned the Government that that clause did not satisfy their legal advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe Government was warned about all this, of course, and it ignored it. It rammed the State-owned enterprises legislation through Parliament in such haste\u2014I think, from memory, 2 or 3 months ahead of when it was due\u2014that we now sit here with a Waitangi Tribunal recommendation to delay and halt, with pending and probable court action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EOf course, the Prime Minister\u2019s position has changed every week. He was going to do it, hell or high water. He has a mandate. He did not give a damn that 80 percent in poll after poll after poll\u201480-plus percent of Kiwis\u2014said they did not want their assets sold. No, the Prime Minister and the National Government would simply ram this through, come hell or high water. He did not care that the economic conditions, on the back of a global economic meltdown, meant that this was the worst market environment\u2014the worst market environment\u2014to be flogging off the family silver. How many initial public offerings have we had in New Zealand in recent times? Not many, I would wager, in the private sector. But, oh no, this Government knows more than anyone else! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe know that it is the worst time because, by its own admission, we can look at the Air New Zealand share price and look at what has now happened to Solid Energy. Even Mr English admits they are in no condition to sell. Look at Meridian Energy being bent over the barrel by Rio Tinto. Look at Genesis and Mighty River Power. Of course, Genesis will face the same sets of Treaty issues that Mighty River now faces. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EAll these signals were out there, and anybody with half a working brain would realise that, firstly, you do not sell the family silver, but if you are going to do it, you do not do it in the worst economic times we have seen in a generation. But, oh no, Bill English and John Key\u2014John Key, the economic and financial whiz-kid\u2014know better than all else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe know that Brian Gaynor said that the delay and the mess-up in this process will cause gross market uncertainty. We have already had other commentators say that this whole process has been mismanaged from start to finish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo where are we? Not only will the New Zealand people, if this goes ahead, lose their asset, lose their dividend stream, but if Mighty River Power is eventually put on the block, it will be sold off in a fire sale. There is no way that Bill English, Gerry Brownlee, or any of the financial geniuses over there can say that they are going to get $5 billion to $7 billion for these assets now. There is no way in hell that they can make that play. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe second point, of course, is the dishonesty of the last Budget. We now know that the Budget projections are in jeopardy. The other financial whiz-kid, the sort of tricky trickster Bill English, booked the proceeds from the sale of assets that have not been sold\u2014now delayed, some halted, and maybe some or all, I hope, never sold. Those proceeds from the sale were booked in the Budget. Of course, he did not book\u2014he did not book\u2014the revenue loss and the dividend stream loss that would flow from that sale once it occurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022369555d08018472b98bc55a04885ac88\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right\u2014dishonest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e22c3c280d3480894623f3b73ab168b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: That, as Mr Twyford said, is\u2014it is not just dishonest. That is gross dishonesty. We know that this has been mismanaged. I say the one benefit of the tribunal action and the halt is that every day that the New Zealand people maintain these assets within public ownership is a good day for our communities, and is a day when they can still receive dividends, which will be put into hospitals and which will be put into schools, without the sale of those assets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E Of course, the other great lie and untruth of this Government is that first it said it was about debt, then that it was not about debt. It was not about debt; it was about buying other assets. Then, when you unpack that, of course, it was about selling revenue-generating assets and buying non - revenue-generating assets like schools and roads. Last time I checked, when you build a school, unless it is a charter school or a private school, which this mob pours dough into, your local primary or secondary or intermediate school does not make a profit or a return to the taxpayer, and nor should it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo the economic equation and proposition that these geniuses put to the public\u2014because it sounds good, does it not, as a spin line\u2014was: \u201CWe are going to sell some assets and we are going to buy other assets.\u201D To the sort of great unwashed that might sound like a good line, until you unpack it and realise that when selling revenue-generating assets and buying non - revenue-generating assets\u2014I wager, colleagues, that even Gerry Brownlee with all his fingers and toes could work that out and calculate that\u2014at some point the money runs out. It is gone. It is over, because you are buying a series of non - revenue-generating assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to\u2014[Interruption] Well, Mr Brownlee sort of waxes on, of course. I say this. The people will now get an opportunity to express their will, and they will do that through the asset sale referendum, which I believe, with a high degree of certainty, will now occur. In that referendum I would wager\u2014and I am happy to take a bet, maybe for a McDonald\u2019s voucher or something like that, with Mr Brownlee\u2014that it will be 80 percent, or maybe even more, of New Zealanders who will vote to retain their assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThen we are going to have an interesting series of debates in the 2-odd years leading up to the next election, because there will be a problem at that point with the Government arguing in respect of mandate\u2014in respect of mandate. If there is a referendum, and there will be, and if the response is overwhelmingly in opposition to the Government\u2019s position, and I believe it will be, then no mandate will exist for the Government to proceed. So that is the other leg of the stool that is going to be cut out from under it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI thank those in other places who have ankle tapped this process. I thank them for this, because it gives the ordinary citizenry in our community the opportunity to get those signatures\u2014to get those 310,000 signatures\u2014to force this mob over here to have a referendum, and then the people will have their say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn mismanaging the blunder over water this Government has opened the Pandora\u2019s box in relation to property issues of State-owned assets because of its mismanagement. These issues will be examined in detail now as each and every one of those assets moves closer to the sale door. Because it has stuffed it up, I predict that in the next 2 years we are going to hear a lot about reallocating priorities. We are going to hear a lot about Budget projections that have somehow moved, and the Government is already prepping the ground, of course, because it keeps talking about: \u201CWell, if it doesn\u2019t go ahead, what\u2019s going to happen? Oh, we\u2019re going to have to get into more debt.\u201D Well, I say to the Government that if it had not chosen to put in place a tax cut that gives those at the top the most and our communities at the bottom nothing, as a result of which we are borrowing 300 million bucks a week, then I suspect New Zealand might be in a different situation in respect of debt, regardless, I would argue, of the global financial meltdown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo here are some questions for Mr English. What is going to be the position on Mighty River Power? We know the tribunal talked about \u201Cshares plus\u201D. The Prime Minister, of course, immediately rubbished that, rubbished the hui, has corralled all his members, and will not allow his members to go, because they just do not want to know. It is hear no evil, see no evil, and pull the blankets up at midnight and hope the goblins go away\u2014hope the nightmare is over. And when the blankets come down, the sun will come up and all will be well. Well, sorry, the best thing this Government could do is get off its backside, go to the hui, listen to the communities, and maybe come back with some proposals, because it is all over the place. First it rubbished \u201Cshares plus\u201D, then it said it was going to go out and consult on \u201Cshares plus\u201D. No one really knows what \u201Cshares plus\u201D means, but first it was against it, then it rubbished it, then it said it was going to go out and consult on it, and then it said it would not participate in a national hui, which I would have thought was a pretty efficient way to deal with a large body of our citizenry\u2014a large body of our citizenry\u2014called the M\u0101ori people. But, oh no, it will not go. I say to its M\u0101ori members over there\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225df9b0eb023e448ab9dbcb18347cd494\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Is Labour going?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb112646a5d74183920f063a4e66b0f0\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Labour will be represented, do not worry about that, Shane. Labour will be represented. I say that what the M\u0101ori members in the National Party should do is say to their chief: \u201CWe\u2019re off. We\u2019re going. We are not going to be stood down. We are going to engage in the democratic process, and we\u2019re going to go, zip-lock our mouths, and listen to the people at that hui.\u201D, and not be sort of trodden on by the tribal chiefs in the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI do say in passing that it is extremely interesting that the M\u0101ori Party, which purports to represent all things M\u0101ori, all people M\u0101ori, all culture M\u0101ori, ain\u2019t going to be within cooee of that hui\u2014no disrespect. It is not even going to be anywhere near it. I say this. The challenge for the M\u0101ori Party is the same as it is for the National Party. The M\u0101ori Party pretends it is not in Government. Those members are Ministers of the Crown. They have the warrant, they have the quarter of a million bucks\u2019 salary, they have the LTDs. They crow and crow that they represent M\u0101ori, except they sold M\u0101ori out over section 9 in the State-owned enterprises legislation. They said they had sorted it out in terms of property rights issues. They represent M\u0101ori. They represent them so well that they boycott the national hui that the Waitangi Tribunal recommended that they go to. The question is why. Did they fall into line with the National Government, sort of led by the nose? I would say that is a fair chance. Well, they should show some guts. They should show some guts, and they should actually attend that hui and listen to their people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo I say to Mr English, could he use the debate today to explain to us how he is going to unbundle such a mess that has occurred? He and his Government have had, what, nearly 4 years to put this policy in place. At every turn, from the passage of the legislation, to the submissions being truncated, to the water rights issue\u2014having been warned of that\u2014to no guarantee in the legislation that mum and dad Kiwis will be in the queue, to a loyalty scheme that they said they did not need, because Kiwis were going to keep these shares ad infinitum into the future. Then the Government came out with an expensive loyalty scheme where those who cannot afford to buy the $1,000 to $2,000 blocks of shares will pay for all the people who can, but it did not need it, of course, because people believe in this so much! What a fiasco! What a stuff-up! I just ask Mr English, aided and abetted by his colleagues, whether he might want to spend the next 15 minutes explaining how he is going to unbundle this, why we are preserving the Prime Minister\u2019s pride, and whether he will actually pull the pin, listen to the people, and keep the people\u2019s assets in Crown ownership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff4d0da3a7c74d98b34fc9f17f77b72b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff4d0da3a7c74d98b34fc9f17f77b72b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E One has to take what the Labour Party says about asset sales with a bucketful of salt, because if it is those members\u2019 desire that all these shares stay in the ownership of the Government, then they have had every opportunity to stand up in this House and promise to buy them back after sale. Of course, they have not. Neither the spokesman on State-owned enterprises, nor the ubiquitous Mr Cunliffe, nor the leader\u2014none of them\u2014have promised to buy the shares back when they have the capacity, if they are the Government, to go to the market and buy them any day of the week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe member talked about the M\u0101ori Party. I can tell that member that the M\u0101ori Party does a much better job of representing M\u0101ori interests than the Labour Party ever did\u2014than the Labour Party ever did\u2014because the Labour Party patronises M\u0101ori and tells them that they need the Labour Party to look after them, when the M\u0101ori Party tells them that they can go and buy shares in this asset sale if that is what they want to do. The M\u0101ori Party believes that M\u0101ori can stand on their own two feet and make their own decisions. Labour has never believed that, and never will. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIn respect of the decision the Government made around the delay in the float of Mighty River Power, I will explain the context in which that decision has been made. The Government has been aware of M\u0101ori rights and interests in water since the day it came into office, because these matters have been debated in the Waitangi Tribunal, they have been part of a number of significant Treaty claims, and from early on in the life of this Government we began discussion and consultation with individual iwi and with representative groups of M\u0101ori on their rights and interests in water.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E When the Government announced the policy of partial sales back in January 2011 we were clear then about our obligations as Treaty partners to consult on that policy, and that is what we have done. That consultation has been carried out in the context of a broader progressive and functional relationship with iwi across the board, and water issues themselves have been dealt with in three different fora\u2014four different fora, really. One has been through individual claims, and I just want to return to the member\u2019s discussion about whether the Government would attend a national hui. I can assure that member that if there is one thing iwi are very clear about in this process, it is that their rights and interests in water are theirs. They do not belong to, nor can be represented by, the M\u0101ori Council. The M\u0101ori Council has no rights and interests in water, nor can any collective of the M\u0101ori Council and/or iwi negotiate with the Government about rights and interests, because they do not have any. The rights and interests belong to the relevant iwi and hap\u016B, and we negotiate with them about their rights and interests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIn the context of Treaty claims, that is absolutely clear. The Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations has been able to come to agreement with the Wanganui iwi after 150 years of their seeking to have an injustice righted, and I must compliment not just the Minister but, particularly, the iwi leadership there, who have grappled with their history in a way that can only be described as courageous to come to a conclusion over such longstanding grievance. That is just one water claim\u2014a claim involving rights and interests in water\u2014that the Crown has been dealing with. Others are at different stages of negotiation. T\u016Bwharetoa has been referred to. It is a different sort of claim from Wanganui\u2019s. It is a complex claim that leads to some reasonably tense discussion but is able to be advanced in the context of a relationship of respect. So Treaty claims have been one way in which these rights and interests have been dealt with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe second has been the Land and Water Forum. Explicit agreement was made 3 years ago with the Iwi Leaders Group that it would participate in the Land and Water Forum, which is a broad-based representation of all sorts of groups that have an interest in how the water resource is used. At the same time there was agreement that we would continue discussion with the Iwi Leaders Group itself to see whether we could find common ground around water rights and interests, as we have succeeded in finding common ground on a whole range of other complex issues, whether it is the seabed and foreshore, the emissions trading scheme, Wh\u0101nau Ora, or the desire for greater social progress among M\u0101ori. So that is a third forum in which discussion has occurred: the Treaty settlement process, the Iwi Leaders Group, and the Land and Water Forum, in which iwi are represented. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThen, of course, there has been the consultation formally since January this year around the partial sales, and in the context of that consultation the M\u0101ori Council has taken a claim to the Waitangi Tribunal. The Government has been aware of the fact that at any time any claimant\u2014in fact, they do not even have to be a claimant\u2014can go to the Waitangi Tribunal or can go to the High Court to test whether the Crown has met its Treaty obligations. The M\u0101ori Council has been to the tribunal and has indicated it will go to the High Court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIf I can deal with the claim in the tribunal, first, I acknowledge the tribunal\u2019s efforts to accommodate the pace of Government policy and Government direction on this issue. The second report of the tribunal makes a number of broad findings that are consistent with the Government view\u2014that is, that M\u0101ori do have rights and interests in water. The tribunal agrees with the Crown argument that the sale of the shares does not compromise those rights and interests or the Government\u2019s ability to settle claims over those rights and interests. The tribunal actually agrees with the Government on that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWhat that second report did do, though, was propose a very narrowly specified option, which the tribunal believes is a set of circumstances\u2014I might say a hypothetical set of circumstances\u2014in which the Crown may compromise its ability to settle a claim if a claimant made that particular claim. So it is a hypothetical solution to a claim that has not been made, and it is called \u201Cshares plus\u201D. In fact, the concepts behind that have been consulted on\u2014the concept being that changes could be made to the constitutions of these companies, which would give M\u0101ori interests some kind of particular or unique influence over the direction of the company. That was discussed in the consultation around section 9 back in January, it has been discussed in other forums among officials, and on both occasions rejected by the Crown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ENevertheless, as we look ahead to the float and the prospect of legal action, the Government has taken the view that we should dot the i\u2019s and cross the cross the t\u2019s to ensure that the asset sale programme can continue, having fully and clearly satisfied our obligations as the Treaty partner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe delay allows us to achieve a number of things. One is further consultation on the detail of the proposition that the Watiangi Tribunal put forward. The courts in the past have made it clear that the Waitangi Tribunal recommendations are not binding but they should be considered, and this is a distinct proposition, so the Crown is going to consider it along with iwi. So we will be setting out over the next few weeks, having issued documents that set out the detail of \u201Cshares plus\u201D, on a series of hui to consult on that issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIt will also allow time for the legal action, which appears to be almost inevitable, and that is time, in a more considered way, for the Crown and whoever takes legal action against the Crown to have those matters considered by the court. So the Crown\u2019s consultation as a result of this, which flows from this decision to delay the float, is very narrowly focused on that proposition that has been put up by the Waitangi Tribunal. It is almost more important than the rest of the tribunal\u2019s findings, because it essentially accepted that the Crown was recognising rights and interests\u2014we have done that\u2014and has consulted extensively with M\u0101ori over the way it is able to proceed with the sales without compromising the ability to settle claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe member made some reference to going to the national hui, and I have already made the point that no national body holds a right or interest in water. There are another couple of reasons why we are not trying to make a national settlement prior to a sale. One is because of the uncertainty over what the rights and interests might be at some national level. It is actually the Crown\u2019s view that there are not any. Some M\u0101ori hold a different view. It is very hard to make a national settlement, which some have been seeking, when it is uncertain what those rights are. A second reason is that it is not clear at all that there is a coherent view among M\u0101ori interests about what that framework should be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ECan I finish by acknowledging and complimenting all the M\u0101ori interests\u2014or almost all of them\u2014that we have dealt with on the considered and progressive way in which they have dealt with this issue. Some do not support the asset sales. I must say that as time has gone on more and more of them want to participate in buying those shares, because they see that as a way of expressing their interests in particular assets. But we have found, with some exceptions\u2014very few exceptions, which get more media attention than they deserve\u2014that the rest of them have been positive, progressive, and very testing of the Government\u2019s position, but not unreasonable, in the same way that the Crown is not unreasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E This particular issue is just one more in a collection of reasonably complex issues that the Crown and iwi have successfully dealt with over the last 2 or 3 years. This one is on track. We are crossing our i\u2019s and dotting our t\u2019s to make sure that the asset sales can continue, because they are important for New Zealand to keep our debt levels down, to have those companies better managed, and to have more New Zealanders participate in share ownership and have a stake in the economy of our country. Those are all things that Labour is against. It wants more debt, less ownership, and badly run companies. Actually, that is what it wants. However, this is on track, and we have every reason to believe that the sales process will continue in the first quarter, as the Government has scheduled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3c41d1daa9f485aa6698d9989c7296e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3c41d1daa9f485aa6698d9989c7296e\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on this urgent debate about the Government being forced to delay the sale of Mighty River Power, and about the whole Government asset sale programme. We just had a speech from the Minister of Finance, where right towards the end of the speech he got towards some of the rationale for why the Government is pursuing this. But I think what has been marked in this whole debate is that the Government has failed to make a coherent argument as to why it is going down this path. I want to go over some of the arguments it has put forward. It has kind of randomly put forward a series of arguments over time to try to explain why it is doing what it is doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe first argument was the fiscal argument. The Government said that it has given away these tax cuts to upper income earners, it has created a Budget deficit, and somehow it has to try to fill the deficit, and that is why it wants to sell these assets. Well, the problem with this argument is that, aside from the sheer immorality of giving large tax cuts to wealthy New Zealanders and making poor and middle New Zealand pay for it\u2014aside from the immorality of that\u2014in fact, the Government\u2019s asset sale programme makes the Government\u2019s deficit worse. According to Treasury, in the Budget Policy Statements of 2011 and 2012, the asset sale programme, if it goes ahead, would make the Government\u2019s deficit worse by about $100 million a year. The reason for that is very simple: the assets make good returns, and the cost of interest for the Government is actually much less than the returns on the assets. So if you are taking just a purely fiscal approach, you would actually hang on to the assets, because they make very good returns to the Government, and the Government would be in a much better fiscal position to hold on to the assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe second argument the Government put forward was that these companies need access to capital, and that is why they need to be privatised. Of course, these companies already have access to capital, in the form of borrowing, so the only new way they would have access to capital is being able to issue more equity or more shares. The only problem with that argument is that if the Government sells down 49 percent, and if the Government is to maintain its 51 percent ownership of these companies, then of all of the new shares issued by these companies, the Government would have to buy half in order to maintain its position. It is very unlikely that this Government, or perhaps future Governments, would be willing to purchase half of all the new shares offered by these companies, and hence the \u201Caccess to capital\u201D argument is not a very good argument, because it does not really help these companies get access to capital. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe third argument the Government has put forward is the argument around debt. This is a very strange argument, and it is very strange because the Government can currently borrow at 3.5 percent. That is what it is currently borrowing at, whereas these assets return somewhere between 8 and 18 percent, depending on which numbers you look at, on the capital. In fact, what the Government is doing is selling assets that make very high rates of return, in order to avoid debt that is very cheap. From a purely economic or fiscal point of view, it is completely irrational to sell these assets in order to avoid debt that will cost you 3.5 percent, when these assets are earning you 8 to 18 percent. That is the third argument, which does not make any sense and is kind of irrational. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe fourth argument is the market argument. The Government says it has to do this privatisation in order somehow to facilitate the electricity market in New Zealand. The problem with that argument is that the electricity market is an oligopoly\u2014there is a small number of players. That will remain so whether it is privatised or not privatised. So that fundamentally does not change anything. In terms of making the market more efficient, the Government has taken one step in this regard, which is to move generating assets around. It moved generating assets from Meridian Energy to Genesis in order to try to make sure there is more competition in the market. That was possible only because the companies were State-owned enterprises. If the Government were to privatise the companies and they were no longer State-owned enterprises, the Government would not have the ability to shift generating assets around in the way it just has, purely, it says, in order to improve the functions of the electricity market. The one tool that it currently has because these companies are State-owned enterprises, it would no longer have. So the fourth argument, around market efficiency, does not make any sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe fifth argument the Government put forward is related to that; it is around prices. It argued that private companies have lower electricity prices than the publicly owned companies. In fact, the truth is the opposite. Electricity from the privately owned companies is about 12 percent more expensive than it is from the publicly owned ones. At first, the Government denied this research when the Green Party and Grey Power released it, but then the Government itself was forced to acknowledge that Treasury had actually presented a paper to the Government that demonstrated that the claims made by Grey Power and the Greens\u2014that the public companies were, in fact, 12 percent cheaper than the private companies\u2014were true. So the fifth argument, around prices, does not hold water either. In that case, as well, the public companies have cheaper electricity than the private ones. That is the fifth argument that we have seen the Government manage to put forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe sixth argument the Government put forward was around capital markets. It said that it would deepen and improve New Zealand\u2019s capital markets. The problem for this argument is that, in fact, a lot of the shares will be sold overseas, and increasingly so in future. In fact, the Government, it seems\u2014in one of the proposals on the table\u2014wants to actually list these companies on the Australian Stock Exchange in order to attract Australian investors into the companies. What we have seen with the Contact Energy float is that more and more of the ownership goes into overseas ownership. Moreover, from the point of view of most investors\u2014small-scale retail investors in New Zealand\u2014what they are looking for is a safe company to invest in. They want safe returns because they have been burnt by the finance companies. So they are looking for a safe return, something they can invest in. In fact, issuing bonds, as these companies currently can, is actually a much safer instrument for most small-scale retail investors in New Zealand. When they are looking for somewhere to invest their money, they would much prefer to buy a bond issued by a State-owned enterprise than to buy shares in companies on the share market. So in terms of New Zealand\u2019s capital markets, and in terms of looking at it from the perspective of small-scale retail investors in New Zealand, it does not make any sense to do what the Government is doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe seventh argument the Government has mounted is around the question of mandate. It has said: \u201CWell, if there\u2019s no kind of rational reason why you\u2019d want to privatise these assets, if you can\u2019t make an economic case for it, we have a mandate. We won the election, and therefore we can do it.\u201D In fact, when you look at the votes cast at the last election, the majority of votes cast were cast for parties that opposed privatisation. Even if you include United Future, ACT, and National together in the camp that supported privatisation, they got a minority of the votes at the election. A majority of votes at the election were cast for the parties that opposed privatisation\u2014not just the parties represented in this Parliament but also parties outside of this Parliament, which did not get seats in this Parliament, because they did not make the threshold. So that is the mandate argument, which is the seventh argument that the Government has put up. It says it has got a mandate. In fact, it does not have a mandate. When you look at the actual votes cast, most New Zealanders voted for parties that opposed the privatisation plan. Moreover, of course, when you look at the opinion polls, probably about seven out of 10 New Zealanders are opposed to the Government\u2019s privatisation plan. So there is no support from most New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThen perhaps the eighth argument, which we heard a bit about from Bill English just before, is that it enables more New Zealanders, somehow, to participate in all of this. That is the kind of vague language that he was using. One can only assume that he means more New Zealanders can buy these shares than currently own them. Of course, 100 percent of New Zealanders currently own these companies. If we look at who will be able to afford to buy shares in these companies, a very small minority of people will be able to afford to buy shares in these companies. Most New Zealanders will, in fact, lose their ownership of these companies through the privatisation process, because all New Zealanders currently own these companies, and what the Government wants to do is hand them over to a very small number. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ESo it does not matter which way you look at it. If you look at the fiscal position, it does not make any sense to sell them. If you look at the \u201Caccess to capital\u201D argument, it does not make any sense to privatise them to allow them to access capital. If you look at the debt position, of course, the Government is borrowing much cheaper than the rate of return on the companies, so it does not make any sense to sell them to avoid debt. If you look at the market argument, it will not, in fact, help the efficiency of the electricity market. If you look at the prices argument, the private electricity companies are, in fact, more expensive. If you look at the New Zealand capital argument, this will add nothing to the ability of New Zealanders to actually invest in this sector. If you look at the mandate argument, a majority of people voted for parties against it. If you look at this vague idea of New Zealanders wanting to participate, most New Zealanders will not, in fact, be able to participate, because they will not be able to afford it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EEvery one of the so-called arguments that the Government has put up has been shot down. It has no arguments left, and all it has left is ideology. It simply believes in privatisation. When you look at the arguments, they do not hold water. So what is left? Well, we hear it from the ACT Party, which understands what is really behind this whole thing. It is an ideology of privatisation, even if none of the arguments hold or none of the arguments stand up to close scrutiny. In fact, there was always an alternative for these companies. They should be part of New Zealand\u2019s green energy future. These companies should be exporting green technology and renewable energy technology to the world. Some of them are already starting to do it. They have the critical mass in terms of skills, experience, and capital, in fact, to do that. That is the alternative future for these companies. Rather than privatise them, keep them in New Zealand, headquartered here with research and development here. That is a much more prosperous future for our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00227f121ca5655b4b6f824340d63799931f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f121ca5655b4b6f824340d63799931f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party has again been found out. It has been found out to be inept, incompetent, incapable, and politically impoverished. This is a very, very difficult time for the National Party, which got itself back into power promising, of all things, a brighter future. What it forgot to mention, of course, was that the brighter future was for its mates, whether they be domestic or foreign. But for the rest of us, this debate today is about National members being found out to be the very thing that they claimed not to be\u2014that is, incompetent. To be not what they claimed to be\u2014that is, they claimed to be great managers of business and of assets. Why they would make that claim given their track record, I would not know, but that is what they said they were going to do, and it is the reason why so many who should be part of this debate today have decided that they would be\u2014ah, I cannot say this, can I? They decided to be where they could ignore the subject of the debate. I can say that. They decided to make sure that they could ignore the subject of this debate in the House today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe sale of State assets has been a fiasco from beginning to end. On every dimension possible, the process has been totally flawed, and each time, surely, around this country there are more and more voices saying: \u201CBut why would they do that?\u201D. When all the fiscals, all the economics, and all the timing\u2014everything\u2014suggested \u201CDon\u2019t do this.\u201D, those members kept on saying they were going to do it, which begs the question: who is pulling the strings behind the National Party? Forget the backbench over there. We all know that the backbench over there is cannon fodder, and it demonstrates that every day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f5bdf90c3b44a008ea46b44200d790d\u0022\u003EPaul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Top-quality cannon fodder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286c49bf0ef054d56be129d5dc5e48ddd\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: But who is pulling the strings and calling the policy behind the National Party? These assets are valuable and making good returns to all New Zealanders. Forget the man from Epsom, who was so proud of his campaign that he was seen pulling down his hoardings. It is the first time in the history of Western democracy that a candidate has been seen not putting his hoardings up, but pulling them down, weeks before the vote. So let us not hear any more from the man from Epsom, because he categorises just what is wrong with a once-proud party, which is that so many men and women whose mothers\u2014who, I think, probably still love them\u2014taught them to have character and decency and integrity have been so beguiled by the chance of one day maybe being a Minister are behaving in this obsequious, toady way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b97f492c1ee74179bda72a611f38fbc6\u0022\u003EPaul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Ah!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dd1f82d31264819ba9e10862dccea16\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The man from Epsom knows that\u2014he said \u201CAh!\u201D. He recognised that instantly. Already groups of New Zealanders are being set against each other on the basis of racial entitlement. They are being set against each other. Around this country, the National Party is setting New Zealander against New Zealander, all over New Zealand. You have got M\u0101ori versus M\u0101ori on this issue, because\u2014make no bones about it\u2014the next lot of claims will be: \u201CWell, if we own the water, then which of us owns the water?\u201D. There comes the next volume of claims before the M\u0101ori Land Court, all the way on to higher courts. Then you have got M\u0101ori versus the rest of New Zealand. Most of the rest of New Zealand is utterly confused as to what is going on here, because those members\u2019 great Prime Minister, the man who has a bit of trouble with his diction and the Americans cannot understand him, said that the water was owned by nobody\u2014that no one owned the water. In the very next breath, of course, he purported to sell it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThen you have got the wealthy versus the rest of New Zealand, and you have got the foreigner who will get it, according to Treasury, within 10 years against the rest of New Zealand, as well. Do you remember the foreshore and seabed, which, happily, was resolved by the Government of 2004\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae0c407a4b55425fbf2907411b346689\u0022\u003EHon Christopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: No, it wasn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226675a1a0b4de4c76ae16a13c7b3119c6\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014which did not have one M\u0101ori tribe on the coast, Mr Finlayson. Not one coastal tribe from 2005 to 2008 would go public and oppose that legislation. With the greatest of respect, Mr Finlayson, you know nothing about the coastal tribes. You are flashing along as the great new white hope of the radical M\u0101ori, but it does not entitle you to understand the subject, and, as someone whose family has lived on the coast for a thousand years, I might know a little bit more about it than you. That is for certain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b4c35e275954e01a442ad868561076a\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: The China Sea!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d77e8ac848e04bd49c883daaf43e67ba\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Pardon? Unbelievable! There he was, of course, acting for M\u0101ori before he got the job, and then all of a sudden he is the new M\u0101ori friend. Look, I have seen a procession of men like you, Mr Finlayson. One was Doug Graham. He used to weep here and cry every night upon all these settlements. The very man who came from a party that promised to have a meaning to the word \u201Cnational\u201D that meant all of us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EAnd who was it that campaigned on \u201CKiwi not iwi\u201D? Which party did that? Which party predicated its whole recovery on the basis of \u201CKiwi not iwi\u201D? And what was the issue that it campaigned on? It said the foreshore and seabed was divisive in terms of the legislation. Mr Finlayson surely remembers that, given his claims to high jurisprudential memory. Surely, he can remember? It was just a few years ago. Just a few years ago\u2014he can remember that. [Interruption] Oh yes, it was\u2014\u201CKiwi not iwi\u201D, all around the country. Did you hear a man from the Wellington legal fraternity, Mr Finlayson, saying that this was wrong and we cannot possibly say that because the coastal tribes are against it? Uh-uh, not a word then\u2014not a mutter, not a murmur, not a syllable, not a sound. Yet hardly was the election over in 2008, round to the back room went the National Party and it did a secret deal with the M\u0101ori Party, and now they have got a new foreshore and seabed set of legislative rules, and already 27 claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a15abbc29384bad96b1a8eb51b674ed\u0022\u003EHon Christopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Great!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b15cf16ee1a0428b9e30e2a415de1e5b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Already 27 claims, and Mr Finlayson for the National Party said \u201CGreat!\u201D. What happened to national unity? What happened to New Zealand against the world? What happened to racial fairness? What happened to us striving to be what we are, regardless of our background, regardless of our race? Well, under the National Party, that is just a plethora of promises, because today division and separatism is what its policies stand for, and at the next election\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f9ea153252842a985791c69eb9758b7\u0022\u003EHon Christopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e74c1de57a840d285a8c2703db82994\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, he can shake his head, because, you see, it is one thing to go and skulk around the coffee bars of Wellington; it is something else to get out there amongst the real people. The mass majority of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245d5df2e2d7f40fdb064112ed604aab6\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s never done that!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224753ee15fda7429f9801b1218daa0fd1\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is all he has done. But out there, the mass majority of M\u0101ori and the overwhelming majority of the rest of the population are going to find out just how bad that legislation is. Of course, this is Mr Finlayson on this issue of separatism, who thinks that a new constitution by a specially hand-picked group of people with the Treaty of Waitangi as its cornerstone is a good thing for our country, even though the greatest M\u0101ori there ever was in this Parliament, Sir Apirana Ngata, warned against such a thing. Mr Finlayson, of course, knows better, because somehow\u2014I do not know how he got it\u2014he acquired a greater knowledge of both the M\u0101ori and the European, and everybody else, in the law, and he thinks that a divisive constitution based on separatist interests is sound. If that is not bad enough\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6de7836dc9e479e88548a83f15f14d2\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s this got to do with MOM?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234ee642fa8b54909b14dfceab33c5263\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: It has a lot to do with this, because it stands on all fours. Then there is Wh\u0101nau Ora\u2014social development delivered differently\u2014and now we have water. What used to be something that we thought was a gift from God, or, if we were atheists, a gift from nature, is now a gift from whom? Mr Finlayson and the junk bond dealer, the guy who does a deal within an hour and moves on if he can\u2014\u201CMr Spray and Walk Away\u201D. It is a deal between him and Mr Finlayson, but it is no longer what belongs to everybody in this country, no matter how long they have been here or how recently they have arrived. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ESo one of the great characteristics of being a New Zealander is what the National Party is prepared to trade away. Instead of prioritising the things that matter to M\u0101ori, like housing, education, a decent health system, First World wages, and employment in their own country\u2014no, no\u2014off it went and did a deal with all the radical M\u0101ori fellow travellers. It is in bed with them\u2014and if it thinks that the majority of New Zealanders out there are going to swallow that, no, they will not. Our job is to go out and ensure that they are not wilfully and blindly ignored by the National Party in the ensuing months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIt has been a total fiasco, and a Cabinet paper warned National about that, but I want to know this. Why was the National Party so stupid as to take this issue, after the foreshore and seabed, from where it was when we all owned it, regardless of our background? And now we are going to have people owning it on the basis of race. How can that possibly be where our country wants to go in the 21st century? So if you are out there and you were once a National Party supporter, my advice to you now is\u2014I know you are desperately worrying about what your party is doing\u2014do not give up. Do not stop being involved in democracy. Hang on, because help is on its way, and vote New Zealand First in 2014.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00229677b416eeb3402db2deb45d23b8a1cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229677b416eeb3402db2deb45d23b8a1cd\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The next four calls are 5-minute calls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u002216b577652bca447f9306ab9e5a93c1e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216b577652bca447f9306ab9e5a93c1e7\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E I will need only a 5-minute call to deal with that rant. I think Mr Peters has been waiting for years to turn up and give that speech on the foreshore and seabed. After he got tossed out in 2008, he simmered at home as we fixed up the foreshore and seabed legislation after the Labour - New Zealand First stuff-up. We are quite happy to stand and say it was entirely right to give M\u0101ori the right of access to justice, something that he and \u201CAuntie Helen\u201D took away from them. But at least that was an entertaining speech, which is more than I can say for the predictable contribution from \u201CComrade Norman\u201D, who simply recited all the same old arguments against asset sales. Look, this debate raises two important questions. The first one is do M\u0101ori have rights and interests in water, and, if so, what are they; and, secondly, does the partial sale of shares in Mighty River Power impact on the Crown\u2019s ability to recognise those interests? So the general philosophical ranting about not liking asset sales is really a thing of the past. That issue was taken to the people in 2011, and the Green Party, the Labour Party, and New Zealand First lost. Tough luck! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ESo we move on to the second question that I have raised this afternoon. The first is of course M\u0101ori have rights and interests in water, and we have been recognising those over the last 4 years, be the river the Waip\u0101, the Waikato, the Kaituna, or the Rangitaiki. We have tried to address legitimate issues in relation to Taniwha Springs. These are the sorts of issues that this Government will continue to address, including Ng\u0101ti Wai, and I know that Ng\u0101ti Wai are very keen to have their Treaty settlement and I am looking forward to dealing with the right honourable member\u2019s brother Wayne Peters, as we negotiate a good settlement for Ng\u0101ti Wai. At some stage there will be a very interesting debate about the effect of legislation since, for example, section 21 of the Water and Soil Conservation Act 1967, which says that the sole right to dam any river or stream or divert or take natural water, or use natural water, is vested in the Crown, and there will be a very interesting debate about the effect of section 354 of the Resource Management Act, which carries over those provisions and says that nothing in the Resource Management Act affects any right, interest, or title to water acquired, accrued, or established by, or vested in, the Crown. We will have those debates, but this Government is keen to do the right thing and to look at legitimate rights and interests in water. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe second question, which is particularly relevant for this afternoon\u2019s debate\u2014although it may have escaped the attention of the previous two speakers\u2014is whether the sale of a minority shareholding in Mighty River Power impacts on the Crown\u2019s ability to address the legitimate rights and interests of M\u0101ori in water, and we say no. There was a hearing before the Waitangi Tribunal, and the Waitangi Tribunal agreed with us in every respect, but it introduced the issue of \u201Cshares plus\u201D into the equation, and this Government believes that it is right and proper to go and have a consultation with affected iwi to determine whether or not what the tribunal has raised could possibly have any merit. It was an argument on \u201Cshares plus\u201D that was raised at the eleventh hour by counsel for the M\u0101ori Council in the course of the hearing. The tribunal has picked up on it, and so we are going out to have a consultation. Over the next 10 or so days I will be meeting with people like Ng\u0101ti Raukawa, Tainui, Ng\u0101ti Korok\u012B Kahukura and so on, and we will have that discussion, because we are a Government that believes that consultation on those issues is right and proper, and then in good faith we will make decisions about where we go to from there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ESo this is not a general debate\u2014although I imagine that we will have another new left contribution from the pretender to the throne, Mr Cunliffe, in a minute or 2\u2014about the merits of asset sales. They are the issues that need to be addressed. It is a very narrow question that is before Parliament this afternoon\u2014raised, amongst all that cloud and mist of nonsense, by Mr Cosgrove\u2014and it is about whether or not the potential sale of Mighty River Power impacts on the Crown\u2019s ability to address legitimate rights and interests of iwi in water. We will be dealing with that issue in a calm and non-confrontational way\u2014something of a surprise, I am sure, to Mr Peters\u2014over the next few weeks before we make a decision on the issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00227acf4533f26c48f4a4b7a72de2eb862c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227acf4533f26c48f4a4b7a72de2eb862c\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think the public want to hear more of this confused legal babble, so I move an extension of time for Mr Finlayson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022fba5346b05d441aa831893f9edadf56f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fba5346b05d441aa831893f9edadf56f\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot move an extension of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022d63ac105006f4ff9bf7b0d12323141a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d63ac105006f4ff9bf7b0d12323141a5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Put aside the fact that the sale of State-owned enterprises is the wrong thing to do. Put aside the fact that, contrary to the claims of the last speaker, Mr Finlayson, polls made it clear at the last election that most New Zealanders did not want the assets sold. Put aside the fact that the Crown and the taxpayer will actually lose money and increase the national debt as a result of the sale, because the dividends that they earn and the returns that they earn are greater than the cost of capital from the Government financing. Put aside all those facts, and what have we learnt today? The Government cannot even do a bad thing well. It could not organise a booze-up in a brewery. It cannot even do a bad thing well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWe have learnt today from Mr English some very interesting statements. He said the Government has been aware of the Treaty issues around water rights for the whole 4 years it has been in office, and that it was clear about its obligations. Why, then, was there no effective Treaty clause in the original design of the sale, and, when the Government inserted one, why, then, did the taxpayer pick up 100 percent of the risk for only 50 percent of the return? And if the Government was clear about that over the last 4 years, why did nobody go to it and point out that it had Treaty issues, before it banked the money in the last two Budgets? Forget for a moment that it did not bank the loss of dividends, only the $6 billion - odd it thought it was going to get in cash. Why did someone not say to the Government: \u201CHang on. You haven\u2019t sorted the Treaty rights issue.\u201D? Mr English told us today that the Government is clear about those obligations. That is not what the Waitangi Tribunal has said. It is not what the M\u0101ori Council says, and it is not what iwi up and down the country say. It is not even what the Land and Water Forum says. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWhat an interesting statement from Mr English in this debate about \u201Cshares plus\u201D. He said that the Government consulted on the Treaty and then rejected \u201Cshares plus\u201D. Then the Waitangi Tribunal has come out recommending that the Government consult on it\u2014so it still rejects it, but it is going to \u201Cconsult\u201D. In ordinary language that is a sham. That is not real consultation. Real, legal consultation is when one listens and is prepared to learn. It is not when one pretends to listen, to dot the i\u2019s and cross the t\u2019s, which is what Mr English admitted it was doing in the face of \u201Calmost inevitable\u201D legal action. No attendance at the national hui: does that sound like genuine consultation? Is the Labour Opposition the only group in Parliament that believes that this is a complete nonsense and is inevitably going to fall foul of the law? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWe can be grateful to Geoff Bertram of Victoria University, who has pointed out that if this sale goes ahead, the consequence of these water rights issues will be to drive down prices and completely undermine the valuation of Mighty River Power, amongst others. The book value bears no relationship to the market value. The only person in the world who thinks the price is going to go up as a result of this complete nonsense is Mr Joyce, who says: \u201CWonderful! We\u2019ll be able to print another glossy brochure and inform New Zealanders how wonderful it is.\u201D Well, that is not what Professor Bertram says is going on. He says that the assets are already overvalued, because of a particular valuation method. Let me quote him: \u201CIf wholesale prices were 10 per cent lower \u2026 the discount rate 0.5 per cent lower and operating costs 10 per cent higher \u2026 [it] would wipe $1.2 billion off Mighty River\u2019s $5b book value.\u201D That is $1.2 billion\u2014let alone the Treaty rights issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThis is a house of cards that is coming down around the Government\u2019s ears. It is the one policy it sunk political capital into, because it was going to transform our economy. Well, that was a nonsense from the outset. National cannot even do a bad thing well. It could not organise a booze-up in a brewery, and now it is up the Waikato River without a paddle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3f5ee4ffb604d0797f1a03cd97db895\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3f5ee4ffb604d0797f1a03cd97db895\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa e k\u014Drero nei m\u014D t\u0113nei take nui, whakaharahara e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113nei kaupapa o te wai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker, and greetings to us all addressing this matter of huge importance and significance, which relates to this topic about water.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EOn 24 August the Waitangi Tribunal issued The Interim Report on the National Freshwater and Geothermal Resources Claim, noting: \u201Cthe matters in this claim are of national importance and at the core of the Maori-Crown partnership sealed in 1840.\u201D We believe that the Government\u2019s announcement last Monday to delay the public offerings of up to 49 percent of Mighty River Power has actually been quite important and pretty crucial, in the sense of trying to move towards some sort of way of bringing the parties together. This gives us time to address M\u0101ori rights and interests in the water, which was the substantive issue, and which was confirmed and guaranteed through the Treaty of Waitangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EBut I wanted to come to the House to specifically address some of the rubbish that came out of the mouth of the first speaker in this debate, Clayton Cosgrove, who was speculating that the M\u0101ori Party would be boycotting the national hui on Thursday. For Mr Cosgrove I want to set the record straight. Firstly, where was he when all this discussion was going on? Secondly, the M\u0101ori Party has actually been playing an integral role in trying to keep the doors of discussion open, even as I speak\u2014even as I speak. We played a unique role in creating the opportunity for debate around the mixed-ownership model. Contrary to Mr Cosgrove\u2019s rantings, the M\u0101ori Party will be at the hui on Thursday, represented by our co-leader Dr Pita Sharples. This is something that Mr Cosgrove should know about, and failed to explain, because it has been well reported in the media over the last week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ECan I say that our view has always been that issues around water are definitely in the hands of iwi and hap\u016B. There will come a time when we do need to have a national picture. A national framework has been discussed in the past, but that sort of discussion is something that needs to take place for iwi. They should have their own time and their own place to have their k\u014Drero. The hui on Thursday is a natural follow-on from the hui called on 18 July, which was called by whom? It was called by the M\u0101ori Party and the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, with iwi leaders, the M\u0101ori Council, and claimants. We brought them together in, I suppose, a unique spirit of collaboration and of fighting for what is right. Naturally, the hui, as I say, in conjunction with iwi leaders and the M\u0101ori Council, is something that the Waitangi Tribunal in fact recommended should happen. That was a key priority for us\u2014to try to get all the key players into the same room. It is just as important that all M\u0101ori interests have their space in the discussion, away from politicians. That is the hui that is going to take place at Ng\u0101ruaw\u0101hia towards the end of the week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI want to point out that a statement came out from the 18 July hui, when we met with the Government and, indeed, the Prime Minister. The statement read something like this: \u201CThe Maori Party and the Government continue to support a process of negotiation between hapu and iwi and the Government on their rights and interests in water, and the Government has undertaken not to legislate over those rights and interests.\u201D That is a crucial statement, because it set the scene for ensuring that we never ever have another foreshore and seabed debacle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI want to be clear that the M\u0101ori Party has been against the sale of the assets from the get-go, and we continue to maintain that position. However, we want to make sure that iwi, the claimants, and hap\u016B have an opportunity to have their day and discussion with the Crown. Why? Because they have their interests at heart, and they need to put their issues on the table. It is really disappointing that Mr Cosgrove chose to go down that line, simply because we should set aside that sort of politics and really talk about the substantive issues: water ownership for the benefit of future generations, issues of governance, issues of management, issues of allocation, and issues of proprietary interest, all guided by kaupapa of rangatiratanga and kaitiakitanga. Those are things that we talk about all of the time. This is an opportunity for us to engage in work streams, such as the development of the national framework out of the Waitangi Tribunal; the settlement with iwi leaders, the M\u0101ori Council, and other claimants; and a timetable for ongoing discussions. The recommendation of the Land and Water Forum for a national land and water commission means there is heaps and heaps to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESo we believe that the Crown needs to demonstrate active commitment to exploring the nature of M\u0101ori proprietary rights and interests in water, and the announcement of a commitment to developing a national framework would certainly help prepare the groundwork for the second stage of that inquiry. There is a lot to do. We see a commitment to continue direct, localised negotiations as critical in maintaining good faith with hap\u016B. The hui that is coming up at Ng\u0101ruaw\u0101hia is a good way to go. However, at the first instance, let us allow the people to have their say. Let us take a bit of time about it to get it right. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7c7147a06da4b53bf4e48951f13cdfd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7c7147a06da4b53bf4e48951f13cdfd\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E I want to commend the last speaker in this debate, Te Ururoa Flavell, for being reasonable and grounded, and for coming here to offer something to the House that we have seen from only this side of the House so far. There was no rhetoric, there was no screaming and yelling, and there was no pontificating for members of the public. Mr Flavell is a member who takes this issue seriously and represents his constituency in this extremely well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe issue is about the mixed-ownership model and what is right and fair. It is about keeping debt levels down, getting the Government\u2019s books back to surplus in a reasonable time, being careful about spending Government funds and the money we are entrusted with by the taxpayer, focusing on growth and investment in New Zealand, boosting productivity, and investing in the New Zealand economy\u2014all things that members of the Opposition hate hearing from this side of the House. But when I am out and about in the country and in my electorate, those are things that New Zealanders are focused on and that are important to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIn this we have made an announcement. The Government and the Prime Minister have been extremely clear. The Government\u2019s position on water rights has been consistent all the way through. In common law nobody owns water. Actually, I go on to say that in common law nobody owns the wind and nobody owns the sunshine either. But as far as this debate is concerned, nobody in New Zealand owns water. I accept that there will be many groups, including iwi, who have interests in water. These are currently being addressed and have been addressed through a number of processes, including through the Treaty settlement process. Our preferred model is developing control and management of water rights, reflecting the relevant interests that iwi have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI want to be clear on this. This is not an issue between the Government versus M\u0101ori, M\u0101ori versus the Government, or M\u0101ori versus M\u0101ori. This is an issue that is important for New Zealand and has been going on for some time. I want to recognise that in Maoridom there are a number of views and voices on this issue, and it is important, as the last speaker said, that these are considered and given time. When we were in the Finance and Expenditure Committee and we dealt with this legislation, T\u016Bwharetoa came before us. They did raise issues, as previous speakers from the Labour Party have said, around their concern over water. But subsequently they wrote to the committee before we adopted the legislation and sent it back to this House to say that there had been a process under way with Government, they were happy with the process, they were committed to continuing with that, and they believed it would offer them the redress that they sought. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EFor the record, this Government has an outstanding position when it comes to settling previous grievances under the Treaty. In fact, the Minister, Mr Finlayson, has put a great amount of effort into this. It has been achieved issue by issue, iwi by iwi, and settlement by settlement. This is very much an approach that has been under way for some time when it comes to water, and an approach that will continue when it comes to settlements around water\u2014iwi by iwi, not ownership, but around interests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI want to ask members of the House to cast their minds back a year or two ago to my electorate and the edge of the electorate of the hard-working MP for Taup\u014D, Louise Upston, and Mr Flavell in the Waiariki electorate. We came together with a great, diverse range of people throughout New Zealand from local iwi, and a settlement was made\u2014it was signed in agreement with the Crown\u2014over the Waikato River; many would say the mighty Waikato River. This is the largest river in New Zealand, and from the edge of Lake Taup\u014D, flowing down to at least Hamilton, issues around that river have been settled. There is agreement between local iwi and the Crown over management of this and the way forward. It was not about ownership; it was about the way forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI just wanted to say that in our approach to this as a Government, it has very much been about embarking on an important process with M\u0101ori to recognise some of their claims. We have implemented a Fresh Start for Fresh Water programme and established a Land and Water Forum, a collection of over 60 parties, including iwi, to work through this process. So we have a record of recognising grievances, looking where different groups in society have a claim, where they have an interest, and finding the very best way forward to deal with this on a group by group, iwi by iwi basis. That is very much what we have said we will continue to do through this process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe final point I want to make is to ask what the Labour Party\u2019s position is on the M\u0101ori Council\u2019s claims. What does Labour really do to support it? We have Mr Shearer on record saying that he supports the Prime Minister\u2019s position, all of a sudden. He said that nobody owns water. But what we heard, in conclusion, was Mr Finlayson say that there was a settlement with iwi over Taniwha Springs. Taniwha Springs was a settlement over water, something the Opposition is saying is impossible. We know Mr Shearer believes in that settlement. We heard on TV last night that he believes in taniwha, so he believes in the settlement of Taniwha Springs. But the Government is being responsible. We are taking the issues into account. We will continue on this process for the good of New Zealanders. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b456638ec80047dfbf4364ce7a087698\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b456638ec80047dfbf4364ce7a087698\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call in this urgent debate, which has been granted by the Speaker on the basis of there being an important decision forced upon the Government, essentially, and that is to delay its asset sale programme. I want to reflect on some of the justifications that have been given by the Government in respect of its underlying programme for asset sales, and to try to show to the House and those who are listening how bereft of vision this Government is for the development of our economy in a way that works for working New Zealanders, for those who need to earn a living in our country, for those who in increasing numbers, sadly, at the moment, because of the lack of hope in our own country, are departing for greener pastures in Australia\u2014or, at least, more profitable means of sustaining themselves in Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe Government at the last election said that it had to proceed with the asset sales because of debt problems, yet it is now saying that even though it cannot proceed at the same pace with asset sales, that does not pose a problem in respect of its management of debt. I find those two propositions inconsistent. I think National was always wrong in saying that the sales were about Government debt, because, of course, the New Zealand Government books are some of the best in the developed world, with very low levels of Government debt, even after 4 years of deficits under this Government. The prior Labour Government, of course, is partly responsible for that, because we ran Budget surpluses for 9 years in a row, reducing Government debt from 48 percent of GDP\u2014I see Tony Ryall laughs, but it is true. We reduced gross Government debt from 48 percent of GDP to 18 percent of GDP, and net Government debt to zero\u2014or it was zero, until they changed the method of measurement and then revised it to slightly above zero. But, anyway, net Government debt was close to zero, and gross Government debt was down to 18 percent. So the country does not have a Government debt problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe do have a private debt problem. It is notable that the most central or most important part of the Government\u2019s vision for this 3-year term does nothing to address the problems of New Zealand\u2019s private debt. Indeed, there are a lot of other steps that the Government could take to improve the economic outcomes for New Zealand, but one of them is not asset sales.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EBy the time of the election we had Opposition parties saying that asset sales made the Government deficit worse, but the Government denied that at the time of the election. It is a matter of record now, and I think it is somewhat shameful record. We are meant to have transparency of accounting processes in New Zealand in advance of an election, where the Government is forced to opened its books so that the public can see what the true state of affairs is. On the opening of the books in the pre-election period on this occasion, Treasury allowed the Government to book the proceeds of asset sales without accounting for the loss of revenue that would accrue to the Government as a consequence of the sale of partial shares in some of these power companies and other State-owned assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e089e5ab3ce41b68b399722fdb37031\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Unbelievable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022003dfa9c7c6d4b8c9303bd6f2634d81a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: As Andrew Little just said, it was unbelievable. It really was unbelievable that Treasury was willing to sign off as fair accounts that showed capital coming in from the sale of State-owned assets so as to reduce future debt and future interest costs, without showing the loss of revenue to the Crown that followed. It was absolutely abysmal practice, and something that both Treasury and the Minister of Finance, who signed off that pre-election fiscal update, as well, should be ashamed of, because it really is a dropping of standards of public accountability. They are meant to be better in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAfter the election, by the time of this first Budget in this 3-year term of the Government, the Government finally came clean through the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update, which was released on 24 May this year. In it, for the first time, the Government acknowledged that its finances, its deficit\u2014its Government deficit; the operating balance before gains and losses\u2014had gone backwards as a consequence of asset sales, not forwards, because, obviously, the price at which the private sector is willing to acquire assets, the rate of return that it expects that is implicit in the price it is willing to pay, the rate of return that it expects, is more than the Government\u2019s cost of funds. Treasury explicitly says that in the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update. It says that the proceeds of sale from the sale of interests in these State-owned enterprises is not enough to cover the forgone profits, which are a combination of retained earnings and dividends. The forgone share of profits is more than the Government saves on interest. So it did not need to do it from a Government debt perspective. It persists because of no other reason than ideology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe other reasons that Government members push in favour of asset sales are similarly flimsy. They say that the sales will increase people\u2019s investment options in a way that will improve capital markets. Well, at one level that is true. It is true that there will be another investment that is available to people in the private sector, either privately or through their investment funds, like KiwiSaver funds and the like. But, really, is our private sector so inept that the only way that we can improve capital markets is to sell, through public capital markets, what the Government has created? Is that really the vision that this Government has for the development of the New Zealand economy\u2014that the only way we can improve the New Zealand economy is to sell what the Government has already created? What a backward, uninspirational, unaspirational vision that is of private enterprise in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI am a believer, in general, in the efficiency of capitalism. I want most businesses to be run by the private sector, rather than by the Government. But I certainly think that with infrastructure assets, especially those that have monopoly characteristics\u2014as we have in the electricity industry, where we do not have a perfectly competitive market\u2014it is in the interest of New Zealanders that those assets remain in State ownership. If there are monopoly rents being extracted\u2014and I think there are in a lot of these infrastructure industries\u2014then it is better that that monopoly rent effectively gets recycled through the tax system for the benefit of everyone, rather than existing for the concentrated benefit of what are, essentially, the most wealthy people in society, who end up owning a disproportionately far greater share of those assets over time, in addition to overseas interests. The idea that we improve capital markets by allowing them to trade what the Government has already created is wrong, and it is especially wrong when it comes to industries where there are monopoly rents extracted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIf we think that this is not the case here, let us reflect on the fact that New Zealand\u2019s electricity prices have increased at far greater than the rate of inflation for many, many years now, including under both the Labour Government and this National Government. Let us reflect also on the analysis that was done by Molly Melhuish of Grey Power. I heard the Greens claiming credit for that. Actually, it was Molly Melhuish of Grey Power who did that analysis, and it has been made public by Opposition parties other than the Greens. The Greens have been singing that same tune, as well. She showed that the average amount that is charged by State-owned enterprises to a domestic consumer is $265 per annum cheaper. That gap will narrow through privatisation of these shares. There is nothing clearer. If you increase the private sector disciplines, it will not relate to just cost minimisation; it will also flow on to price maximisation, and that gap will narrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIf this Government was serious about economic growth, it would be doing things like introducing a capital gains tax, so that people invest on the basis of the profitability of the investment rather than a tax bias. It would be improving the depth of the capital markets, so that there is more money for businesses to expand and grow jobs, and through universal KiwiSaver. It would be doing things to help control the rapid increase in our exchange rate, rather than having the Reserve Bank focus only on inflation. It would be taking meaningful steps to improve the outcomes of our economy, rather than having as the central part of its vision a policy such as this, which is failing. Reflect on the fact that at the last election the most important part of the National Government\u2019s vision for this 3-year term was asset sales, and they are now held up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u002227dd5358c3384af09ee521d9dafb99d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227dd5358c3384af09ee521d9dafb99d6\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister for State Owned Enterprises):\u003C/span\u003E This is a snap debate about the Government\u2019s announcement that we are deferring the float of Mighty River Power until March till June next year\u2014market conditions. I thought the point that I would make in this debate is to address not only where the mixed-ownership model sits in terms of the Government\u2019s wider economic plan but also the specific issues of why the Government took the decision that it did last Monday in respect of the need to consult further with M\u0101ori on a very small and specific issue raised by the Waitangi Tribunal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe mixed-ownership model, the Government share float, should be seen within the Government\u2019s wider plan to control debt and support the New Zealand economy. This Government has been taking action across a whole range of areas in order to support the economy. If there is one thing this Government is on about, it is securing and building our economy for the future. So we have been making changes across a whole range of areas: better public services to get better value for taxpayers, making sure taxes are more competitive for New Zealanders such that the vast majority of New Zealanders now pay only 17.5c in every dollar in taxation, changes we are making to the Resource Management Act in terms of business compliance, and changes we have made to ensure that interest rates are low and that the cost of living and inflation are kept low. These are all part of a wider plan to build and secure the New Zealand economy so that people have confidence to invest in the future. It is really that investment that will underpin the growth and the improved prosperity that New Zealanders want. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EFundamental to making sure we have low interest rates, have low inflation, and have an economy with low compliance and lower regulation is to make sure that we have our debt under control. What we know is that over the next 2 to 3 years debt is going to rise from about $54 billion now to $72 billion. Keeping it under 30 percent of GDP is important. That is the reason why the Government proposed the sale of a minority stake in these five State-owned enterprises, in order to free up cash, which can then be used to invest in important social infrastructure that helps our economy continue to grow. Those minority stakes are about 3 percent of New Zealand\u2019s assets, so it is part of\u2014it is not the be-all and end-all\u2014a wider plan the Government has to control debt and to support the growth of the New Zealand economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe mixed-ownership model programme has been going through a stage by stage approach since the Government started this after the last election. We went through a reasonably comprehensive consultation with M\u0101ori in February, involving 10 hui up and down the country, attended by a number of Ministers, to talk to M\u0101ori about their rights and interests in water and in this process and make sure that we listened to those. We listened to those comments, such that the Government saw section 9 of the State-Owned Enterprises Act, in respect of the Treaty principles, being brought into the new legislation. That would apply to the mixed-ownership model, Crown shareholding, and the Crown\u2019s responsibilities\u2014not to the private shareholders but to the Crown\u2019s responsibilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EWe know that the New Zealand M\u0101ori Council took a claim to the Waitangi Tribunal. An indicative interim report was provided. The Government thought that that did not provide sufficient clarity on the concerns that were being raised by the Waitangi Tribunal, such that another report came. That report made very interesting reading because it indicated that the positions that the Government had taken before the tribunal were pretty clear and pretty much accepted by the tribunal. But there was this one small area, \u201Cshares plus\u201D, that was new, and the tribunal has put it out there. The Government\u2019s very strong view\u2014and we took legal advice on this\u2014is that we decided that it was important that on that one issue of \u201Cshares plus\u201D we needed to consult with M\u0101ori in order to explain to them the reasons that the Government was adopting the position that it was adopting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EClearly, there are some significant concerns around \u201Cshares plus\u201D. I do not think the vast majority of New Zealanders believe that any one particular class of shareholder should have veto rights, responsibilities, or powers different from the others, so that is, clearly, why the Government has a number of concerns around this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EWe have made it clear to M\u0101ori, in our correspondence, that there are five areas where we think \u201Cshares plus\u201D is not a viable option. The first is that we do not think that it is in the national interest for any group within the shareholder base to have the specific rights that were detailed in the tribunal\u2019s \u201Cshares plus\u201D arrangement. Secondly, we actually think that all the forms of redress that the Waitangi Tribunal was proposing could, if a Government wanted, be addressed in other ways. Thirdly, the relationship of \u201Cshares plus\u201D to decision making and strategic decisions would not work in practice. Fourthly, the company would be less attractive to investors because of this inequity of power amongst shareholders. And following careful consultation with M\u0101ori early this year, a very careful and deliberate decision was made to ensure that the Crown\u2019s obligation under the Treaty rested with the Crown and not with the companies, as I said earlier on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003ESo having looked at all of that and taken the advice that we have, we have made this decision that it is in the interests and it is a prudent step to put the Mighty River Power float into the next window that was available, and to spend the next 4 to 5 weeks consulting in order to show M\u0101ori that we have addressed this issue that was raised by the Waitangi Tribunal, and that we think there are legitimate arguments for the position that we have made, and also to give an opportunity for M\u0101ori to raise any issues that they themselves want to raise in response to the Government\u2019s position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EWhat we know is that there are about two windows each year when floats of this size could take place. One is in that March-April-May window, and there is another in the September-October-November window. Clearly, we have missed that September window, and that is the reason why we have now made it clear in the Prime Minister\u2019s statement that we will be having the first float in the first window of next year. Then there will be another public float, and we will be asking the public to participate with the Government in that in the second half of 2013. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThis makes sense for New Zealanders. There are opportunities for New Zealanders in taking a stake with the Government in these companies. We think it is an opportunity for New Zealanders to consider saving in a different way. There are opportunities for KiwiSaver and other Crown financial institutions to be involved, and indeed for M\u0101ori themselves to participate as shareholders. We think it also gives New Zealanders an opportunity to invest in a large local company. What we know is there are over $100 billion of savings on term deposit, and many of those New Zealanders may in fact see that there are opportunities elsewhere with this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003ESo the Government is pretty clear on the reason why we have taken this action. I think it is very prudent. It is very sensible. It is in the interests of taxpayers that we add as much certainty as possible in respect of the float. The Ministers are about to begin a series of consultations around the countryside. That material is available on the Treasury website in terms of our correspondence to the various iwi, and I think it is also an opportunity for New Zealanders to reflect upon the fact that the Government share floats are part of a wider plan that the Government has in order to control debt and invest in the New Zealand economy. Every night on our television screens we see what happens when Governments do not control their debt, and our country does not want to be in the position of some of these European and other countries. That is the reason why we want to continue to get ourselves in a position to control debt and invest in the future, and that is certainly how the mixed-ownership model should be seen, as part of that wider economic plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022485406c264254ee6a16ab2ab2cd04569\u0022\u003ESubordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002295ced738ee744ef5bb8fafdbda207f70\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022bce81de48be3469889509077da0ccce0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bce81de48be3469889509077da0ccce0\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS (Minister for Courts) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Leader of the House: I move, That the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time, I intend to nominate that the bill be referred to the Regulations Review Committee, and move that the committee report to the House by 5 November 2012. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThis is a routine and technical bill\u2014it comes before the House every year\u2014but it is a very important bill all the same. The bill confirms or validates items of subordinate legislation that must be confirmed or validated by Parliament. This is a requirement of the empowering Acts under which the various orders or regulations have been made. The role played by the House in confirming or validating various items, and, in particular, the scrutiny provided by the Regulations Review Committee, provides an additional layer of protection in the regulation-making process. Should the House decide to withhold its approval for a particular regulation or order contained in the bill, that regulation or order will lapse. That said, this bill traditionally receives cross-party support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EAll of the orders and regulations in this year\u2019s bill are certainly of a technical character. There are 16 orders or regulations listed in the bill that are to be confirmed or validated, and they have been made under seven different Acts. I shall provide for the benefit of the House a brief summary of each instrument confirmed or validated by the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EOne set of regulations, made under the Animal Products Act 1999, is confirmed. These regulations clarify that all fees, charges, and levies under the principal regulations are GST-inclusive. They also replace part of a schedule providing for unit charges, hourly rates, and call-out charges payable in respect of the export of live animals and animal germ plasm. I have not come across germ plasm before, I do not think. Seven commodity levies are confirmed. They are a levy on navel oranges sold or exported as fresh fruit\u2014as opposed to air force oranges, which is a different category altogether\u2014a levy on kiwifruit exported to countries other than Australia, a levy on nashi pears exported or sold fresh in New Zealand, a levy on all arable crops except maize grain and maize or cereal silage grown in New Zealand, a levy on cereal silage and maize seed, and a levy on asparagus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EFive orders are made under the Customs and Excise Act 1996. They are confirmed. Rates of excise and excise-equivalent duties imposed on tobacco products and alcoholic beverages are adjusted annually to reflect the movement in the Consumers Price Index. This bill confirms the duties that were imposed on 1 January 2012 and 1 July 2012 respectively. A 2c per litre increase in the excise and excise-equivalent duties on motor spirits imposed on 1 August 2012 is confirmed. Two orders extending for another 3 years the prohibition on export and import of Antarctic toothfish and Patagonian toothfish are confirmed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EAn order made pursuant to the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001 and the Social Security Act 1964 is confirmed. This order increases most benefits, pensions, and allowances to reflect the 1.77 percent increase in the New Zealand Consumers Price Index from the December 2010 quarter to the December 2011 quarter. It also increases the amounts of funeral grants payable under the Social Securities Act in respect of people who die\u2014fittingly\u2014on or after 1 April 2012. The order also makes some further supplementary increases to the level of superannuation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EOne set of regulations made under the Road User Charges Act 2012 is confirmed, and these regulations specify the rates of charges for distance licences, for road-user charges vehicles, and in respect of additional weight carried by combination vehicles operating under the additional licence. Finally, the bill confirms an order increasing war pensions, lump-sum payments, and allowances in line with an increase in the Consumers Price Index. The order also makes further supplementary increases to the level of veterans\u2019 pensions. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u00221b0b52cefbac444bae97cb75f8056a8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b0b52cefbac444bae97cb75f8056a8e\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This is an annual ritual, the introduction and first reading of the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill. Unfortunately, it has become a ritual. The Minister for Courts quite correctly said that these enactments dealt with in the bill are traditionally a matter for cross-party support, and certainly that is not changing today. But what I want to do is try to make some observations about the utility of the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI think in the spirit of the House trying to do its job better, there are some ways that we could explore in order to use the time of members more efficiently in respect of this sort of exercise. I was encouraged by the Minister\u2019s motion of referral because I note that it proposes a report-back date of Guy Fawkes Day, 5 November. It might well be that that ought to inspire us to rethink the way in which this legislation is dealt with on an annual basis by the Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI want members and those listening to have a very clear picture of what will happen from here. This legislation, if it passes its first reading, will be referred to the Regulations Review Committee. The Minister made a reference to the valuable scrutiny that the committee will perform, and that is kind of him. Unfortunately, this is what the Regulations Review Committee will do: it will write to each Minister and department responsible for one of the orders dealt with by the legislation, and the letter that the committee writes to the Minister and to his or her department will ask whether or not there is an ongoing need for the particular order that is being validated or validated and confirmed. The Minister or his or her department will invariably write back and say to the committee that, yes, there is an ongoing need for another year, or whatever the term for the confirmation or confirmation and validation is. The Regulations Review Committee, having no way to test that response, will accept the advice that comes back, and it will report to the House that the enactments referred to in this bill ought to be confirmed or validated and confirmed, as the case may be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThat is the extent of the scrutiny that will come from the Regulations Review Committee, and I can tell the House that as the chair of the committee in this term and the last term. With the deputy chair of the committee from the last Parliament present in the House, he will remember that that was exactly what was done last time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe problem that we have with this system is that these Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) bills have been enacted by this Parliament for many, many decades. They date back to an earlier era when there just was not the sort of scrutiny that we have now with our committee system. The fact is that the Committee stage in the House is recorded in Hansard, so that people can actually see the detailed level of scrutiny that is performed in respect of legislation. The bills date back to an earlier time when the thinking around subordinate legislation was very different from the way that that thinking occurs now. All we are doing, by dealing with an annual bill like this, is trying to preserve the form of the principle that all expenditure and all revenue raising by the Crown ought to be authorised by Parliament, by the legislature. That is all this exercise is designed to achieve: to preserve the principle and the form of that notion. But, as I have said, it is simply a ritualistic exercise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EMuch work has been done on what it costs to run this House per minute. There are various exercises that indicate the expense that the taxpayers are put to as this House operates. There are actually more important and more significant things that we could be doing than dealing with this sort of annual exercise every year, and this is precisely the speech that I gave last year when we dealt with this sort of legislation. It cannot be beyond the expertise of the Standing Orders Committee and the expert advice that it receives from the Clerk to be able to find a better way to deal with this sort of exercise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI would say that the beginning point ought to be that we should no longer legislate annually to continue with this type of exercise, and we should no longer have primary legislation that requires ongoing confirmation or confirmation and validation, because it is an outdated exercise. There are easier ways to do it. We could just deal with each of these matters in primary legislation, or we could simply delegate a particular power to a Minister to deal with by way of Order in Council and have it scrutinised by the Regulations Review Committee in the ordinary course, which is what generally happens in respect of regulations and new regulation-making powers every year anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EWe do not need to spend the time of the House every year in this way. Given the report-back date of Guy Fawkes Day, I am hoping that the Regulations Review Committee will agree to report to the House not only in terms of the enactments dealt with in the bill but also to ask that we actually find a better way to use the House\u2019s time, rather than have an annual Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill, which, as I have said, pre-dates the modern scrutiny methods that are now at our disposal and is not, by any measure, an efficient use of the time of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u002271c9342111e544bdb2768d47645422a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271c9342111e544bdb2768d47645422a4\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E You may have noticed my nimble move across the House then, to rise and take a call on this Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f98eedbed9a4d5da2eed035d51a9c22\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Nearly missed it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f13cdd60f0546899c544480b986efa4\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, indeed. Firstly, as a member of the Regulations Review Committee can I acknowledge the chairmanship of Mr Chauvel and also acknowledge the points that he raised. I must admit that this committee, for me, thus far, as a new member of Parliament, has been very much a learning curve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd668b6198404a19b3543d3566863170\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Straighten your tie up. It\u2019s tucked out to the side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223963883c9724cce9b3a7165026036ec\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it is too. Thank you, Mr Mallard. That was because I moved with such speed across the House. Obviously it was blown under my jacket. In all seriousness, the Regulations Review Committee is a committee that deals with very technical issues, and the chairmanship of Mr Chauvel and his knowledge in this space is certainly very helpful for me personally as a member. So I do take heed of the comments that he has raised and the points that he has made to the House today in terms of the use of parliamentary time. I have heard figures of anything from $500 a minute to $6,000 a minute, in terms of the cost of running Parliament. I am not sure whether that depends on the quality of the speaker at any given time, but I would suggest I am probably somewhere closer to the $500 mark in terms of this particular subject. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThe bill itself is a non-contentious bill, as pointed out by the previous speakers, and it gives effect to various orders and regulations and ensures that they are validated so that the business of this House and the orders that this bill deals with can proceed. Traditionally it receives broad support across the House, on the basis that these orders and regulations tend to be routine and very technical in nature. I think that is certainly the case, as acknowledged. If the House were not to validate these orders and regulations or confirm any items of delegated legislation, then they would simply lapse, and that would obviously be an unacceptable situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThe previous National speaker, the Hon Chester Borrows, stole my thunder to some extent when he alluded to all of the matters that this bill will be dealing with, and I can simply add to that by saying that obviously, in terms of Consumers Price Index, excises, and so forth, the mechanics of this bill really deal in a substantive way with the changes that must occur with these things on an annual basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EI will conclude by saying that this is fundamentally a mechanism and an uncontentious means by which this House can deal with routine parliamentary operations and give effect to these orders and regulations. I would also like to acknowledge the comments that were made by Mr Chauvel, as I said, and I look forward to this discussion being continued so I can actually get my head around it a little further as to how a more pragmatic system may, in fact, operate. I am certainly open to discussing that. I have no problem with commending this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c58aabb0530d46eead538e3489d80ce3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c58aabb0530d46eead538e3489d80ce3\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I too rise to support the referral of the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill to the Regulations Review Committee. As a member of that committee I certainly look forward to the opportunity to address, I think, the concern that Charles Chauvel has raised. When I first looked at this particular bill and saw my name on the speaking list, I thought I probably was not going to find a lot that I could say about it. But I am inspired by my colleague Charles Chauvel\u2014as always\u2014because I believe that what he has managed to do is to actually ask the House to confront a serious issue around a bill that might not look, on the surface of it, to raise such a matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EHe talked about what was going to happen to this bill when it went to the select committee. It will go to the Regulations Review Committee, and the committee will resolve to write to all of the Ministers and their departments in relation to each of these particular validation provisions. They relate to the Animal Products Act, the Commodity Levies Act, the Customs and Excise Act, the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act, the Road User Charges Act, and the War Pensions Act. So there are Ministers in this House who will receive a letter, I think, from us asking for confirmation that in fact there is an ongoing need for the order or the levy, so that we are able to report to the House that the criteria for confirmation and validation have been met. But I think Charles Chauvel raised a really good point: what is the point of that? We already do that when regulations are referred to the select committee. We do not actually need to have a confirmation and validation process in order for that to occur. So whenever regulations are passed they are referred to the select committee. If we have concerns about any particular elements of them, we scrutinise them and we do write to the departments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EMaybe the question that we want to consider at the select committee\u2014as I say, it never occurred to me that this would be an issue, but having listened to the inspiring contribution of my colleague I am just wondering whether perhaps we should write to ask not just for confirmation that the confirmation and validation requirements are met, but whether each one individually, of itself, should be in legislation that requires this process to occur. If, in fact, it does not require this form of debate and this form of scrutiny, then perhaps something that we could add by way of value in our report back to the House is a proposal that we address this when we debate the primary legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EIf we look at the dates of the primary legislation, of course, they change in each of these validation bills. For example, we have got the War Pensions Act, which dates back to 1954, and the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act is 2001, but the Social Security Act, of course, is 1964. Then we have got some in the 1990s, but then we have the Road User Charges Act 2012. So there does not seem to be any rhyme or reason as to which regulation-making powers are subject to legislation that requires confirmation and validation in respect of the stated time of lapsing, unless they are either confirmed or confirmed and validated by Act of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI actually honestly think that it is time for Parliament to have this debate as to whether this very process is one that is perhaps past its use-by date. As a result of this legislation, we could ask ourselves whether we need a confirmation and validation process, or whether it should be reserved for the very exceptional circumstances. These do not seem exceptional to me: commodity levies around navel oranges, kiwifruit, nashi pears, arable crops, cereal silage, maize, and asparagus. Apart from some of them describing my favourite fruit and vegetables, which would be particularly asparagus and nashi pears\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b272b44744b947fe99d4f04a119ca9b9\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Cereal silage!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022916d1a5a76264cfd81d219e9a3bc5453\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Cereal silage is not something that really has found its way into my diet. It was really just those two, asparagus and nashi pears. But the point that I am making is why them and why not other commodity levies that are applicable, or are they all the levies that are applicable under the Commodity Levies Act 1990?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I find extraordinary about this legislation is the same with every other one of these bills that has preceded it. The first job, after setting out the purpose of the Act, which never changes, is to have a clause headed \u201CValidations to prevent expiry do not cure invalidity, etc\u201D. That is to ensure that if there is something else wrong with the regulation, this bill is not a cure-all; it deals with just the question of expiry. Then there is the clause saying the Act binds the Crown. But then we have the repeal clause, and this is the same in every single one of these particular bills. Clause 6 of every single one of them is the repeal clause: \u201CThe Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Act 2011 (2011 No 96) is repealed.\u201D But the 2011 legislation would have repealed the 2010 one, and the 2010 one would have repealed the 2009 one, and the 2009 one would have repealed the 2008 one. I think you get the drift. So although the technical niceties, I guess, of the legislative framework would appeal to somebody who does not want redundant legislation sitting on the book, which is something that I have been a champion for for many, many years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259f99443f43743ba9581cad2fe0e8422\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t like redundancy. I don\u2019t like redundancy. This is supporting redundancy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3f1b383f59a446a8ea675d2a59b8e20\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Regulatory redundancy, Mr Mallard. Perhaps regulatory redundancy is the kind of phraseology for what I actually do appreciate, as a champion for quality regulation and a very good legislative framework. So even though it might meet that test, one does have to come back to the essential question, which is whether we could cure the real problem, which is to address it up front when the legislation is passed. I do not recall any of the debates that we have had on a Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill actually going into the detail of any of the particular orders that are being validated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f47238e4362845c4acbd61220d7c293c\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I can remember. I can remember.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b975d35abfa141cd8a01c94190e58fbc\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Trevor Mallard is obviously going to take a call on this and speak for some considerable time on his memory of other examples, which of course will find their connection to this particular one through the repeal clause, because the repeal clause will have had exactly the same effect as the repeal clause does in this particular one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI did suggest to the whips that it probably was going to be relatively challenging to spend the entire 10 minutes that one has to speak on a bill, on an important debate, on any matter in the House. I did not think that there was going to be an opportunity, really, for me to explore some of these issues, but the fact is that I have managed to do so entirely within the Standing Orders. That is a result of the absolute inspiration that Charles Chauvel does represent in bringing these important matters to the House. I do not know that others can see why these things are so important, but I do think that they are. We are often criticised as a Parliament for not taking the opportunity to address some of the\u2014I do not know\u2014historical ways that we have dealt with things, and not having a modern way in order to address these issues. This process may have been designed to protect against orders being passed that have not been subject to a debate in Parliament. There may be rhyme or reason that applies to that historically. But I seriously do not think any of these particular provisions have been reviewed, and I hope that our select committee, the Regulations Review Committee, can, in fact, raise that with the individual departments when we write to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI do support this bill and look forward to it coming to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00229055bc8495ce4330b3122221f29d098e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229055bc8495ce4330b3122221f29d098e\u0022\u003EJULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I rise to take a very, very short call on the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill, because I would really like to acknowledge the contributions made by Mr Chauvel and the Hon Lianne Dalziel, and even Mike Sabin, who all rightly pointed out that there are some real issues around the process, and whether or not it is really the best use of taxpayers\u2019 money that Parliament spend a considerable amount of time debating what are just technical amendments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EAs the Green Party has looked in depth at the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill and found nothing particularly controversial about it, we are happy to support its referral to the Regulations Review Committee. We would be happy to see an improved process by which the House does not need to debate every single time there needs to be a CPI increase in various things, whether that is the duties on alcohol or tobacco, or whether it is New Zealand superannuation payments. I do think it would be a much better use of our time to talk about some of the substantive policy issues that, unfortunately, do not come before this House for scrutiny\u2014like, for example, the decision to spend billions of dollars on uneconomic motorways, or the funding freeze on Radio New Zealand, whose budget has not been updated to take into account increases to the CPI and is thus actually, effectively, a cut to something that is a fundamental and substantive issue that is important to New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI think that I do not need to restate all the excellent points already raised by the Hon Lianne Dalziel and Charles Chauvel, so I will not take up the time of the House any further. I am looking forward to the debates on other legislation that is coming up today. Thank you. We commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022a69f99dc9dc647899d7863c72e52d676\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a69f99dc9dc647899d7863c72e52d676\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E You can tell from the discussion in this House the extraordinarily, I guess, controversial and competent discussions we have in the Regulations Review Committee from time to time under our esteemed leader, who gets through, on a bad day, in 15 minutes. None the less, it is a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295cb1fc20c82493494e55cdb1681ef15\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Shh! Shh! Don\u2019t tell the whips that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d66767253d3c4a1d801f1f8ab10565db\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE\u003C/span\u003E: It takes quite a lot longer than that to get through the real business of the House, though. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4490beb46544d1bb0272406ebb150f1\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Are you mad? Don\u2019t tell the whips.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb624ef0eb24511ba969801a576d726\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, quite clearly the Opposition does not understand the intelligence of our whips, for a start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E It is a great pleasure for me to take a call on the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill at the first reading. The legislation may seem a little spurious to some, but it is one of those tools this Parliament uses to ensure that democracy proceeds in New Zealand in a smooth and proper manner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI want to take a little bit of time\u2014unlike, I guess, the members of the Opposition\u2014to talk about the reason for these levies and charges that are imposed here and to talk about the relevance of one or two of them, particularly under the Animal Products Act, which looks at charging for inspection, around hourly rates, and vet inspections of animal exports. It particularly relates in this case to our equine industry. The equine industry in New Zealand is about a $160 million export industry. Every one of these 3,500-odd horses that leave the country is inspected under this very piece of legislation, so I think it is very relevant to some parts of our industry. When you look at things like navel oranges or kiwifruit, navel oranges, particularly in respect of Gisborne, are a very important export. The Bay of Plenty, of course, has its kiwifruit. Both of these provide levies back to their parent bodies, which help to develop further the agricultural industry in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EOf course, we get on to the Foundation for Arable Research, which deals with almost all of the seed industry in New Zealand in one form or another. I say for the benefit of Lianne Dalziel that she might not have eaten maize silage, but maize silage really is the ruminant variety of muesli, and often they add a little bit of cream or whatever to it. It is certainly a very valuable part of what we do in New Zealand agriculture. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe other thing that particularly appealed to me was that this piece of legislation deals with pensions, and I am just hoping that they will last a little longer. I was intrigued to see that it proposes a 1.77 percent increase to pensions, and I am figuring that in 5 years\u2019 time, when I get to that stage, it will have gone up by about another 9 percent, which I am quite looking forward to. So for me this is a very relevant piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI am not qualified to enter the debate as to whether or not we should be discussing this in the House or whether there are much better ways to do it. I suspect there are much better ways of dealing with this stuff, but, none the less, some of the bits and pieces that are picked up in this legislation are very important not only from a revenue perspective for the Government but from a revenue perspective for all of those organisations that collect levies and fees to enable them to operate, to carry out their research, and to further develop our agricultural industry. So I have no problem commending this piece of legislation to the House, and I look forward to the intense discussion we will have with the Regulations Review Committee on this issue. I commend this to the House and wish it well as it goes through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3509076aa734a61a595d0f6c3dbb6cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3509076aa734a61a595d0f6c3dbb6cf\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First also supports this year\u2019s Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill. Amongst other things, as we know, the bill would validate this year\u2019s New Zealand superannuation rate order, which would increase the rate of New Zealand superannuation, as set out in Part 2, by approximately 2 percent overall. For people living entirely on New Zealand superannuation, this will, even at almost 2 percent, be very welcome. But I think it is hardly enough, really, for a reasonable retirement income these days, when you take into account rates of increase in power, the quite significant increases in local authority rates that we have seen in recent times, significant increases in insurance, for reasons that will be fairly obvious, and many other basic living expenses. It seems to me highly unlikely that an increase of almost 2 percent would realistically cover all of that and a lot more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EIn fact, over many years successive Governments have whittled away the New Zealand superannuation entitlement one way or another. As we know, Labour wants to increase the age of eligibility from 65 to 67. The Government has not really shown its hand about what it plans for New Zealand superannuation in the future, and, as a result, there is much speculation about what will happen to New Zealand superannuation in future years. One way or the other, I think baby boomers are going to get a bad deal, whichever of the major parties succeeds in 2014 and beyond. I consider that to be something of a breach of a social contract. We were told decades and decades ago that there was this social contract in the form of a taxation-based system, whereby we would all pay our taxes over our working lives and we would get an entitlement to New Zealand superannuation from tax sources in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe point about this is that that is an undertaking that I think has been breached. It does not matter what people from Labour or National say, people in the community know that it has been whittled away over time and that they can expect the same to happen in the future. In fact, they also know that there is only one party, New Zealand First, which can be relied upon to keep the age of eligibility at 65 years, with no reduction in the rate and the way it is calculated. When possible, New Zealand First would increase the rate by at least 1 or 2 percentage points in relation to the average wage, to recognise the hardship that we all know that people who are living entirely on New Zealand superannuation are suffering. We think, as distinct from the other parties, that this is affordable if priorities are well ordered by the Government and if we get real growth in the economy. I think that is also a priority that both parties have not done very well on. It can be done, should be done, and must be done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EBut, in fact, much more is needed too, and there has been a huge silence about some of the main issues surrounding New Zealand superannuation. For example, the issue of overseas pensions and eligibility for immigrants needs to be addressed and needs to be addressed urgently. Immigrants resident in New Zealand for at least 10 years still get full New Zealand superannuation, whereas they may have made little or no contribution to the New Zealand economy. Then there is the New Zealand diaspora: a million people, with half a million in Australia. It is a silver tsunami, which may return to New Zealand at an unknown rate of arrivals in the future. Many of those, even though they may have spent most of their working lives overseas, may qualify and become entitled to 100 percent of New Zealand superannuation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EOn the other hand, there are people who are bringing into New Zealand\u2014and are entitled to bring into New Zealand\u2014an overseas pension that they have earned overseas, only to have it deducted under section 70 of the Social Security Act from their New Zealand superannuation, even if it is a contributory scheme that they have earned overseas, whereas KiwiSaver in New Zealand does not get deducted from New Zealand superannuation. So there are many anomalies\u2014those and many more\u2014and too much unfairness surrounding all of those issues, especially for immigrants and expatriates returning to New Zealand, which were not addressed by Labour and are not being addressed by National. That unfairness needs to stop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThose, however, are detailed issues for another day, but they are urgent. For today\u2019s purposes, New Zealand First is happy to support the bill to validate the superannuation increases, which are so sorely needed, and I just regret that we cannot do more for people who are living solely on New Zealand superannuation. As many of them know, New Zealand First wishes to improve the SuperGold card and other benefits that go with New Zealand superannuation. They cannot rely on either of the main parties to do any of that. Only New Zealand First really looks after people who are reliant on New Zealand superannuation. However, for today\u2019s purposes New Zealand First will be happy to support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022972196188fc84e4c9d29ebe097cf23c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022972196188fc84e4c9d29ebe097cf23c8\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to congratulate Mr O\u2019Rourke on managing to inject a hint of controversy into Parliament\u2019s annual consideration of the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill, because that is no mean feat. I have been here for only 4 years, but I seriously doubt whether that has ever been done before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226df7f972f71a4a61951e656da8c9642c\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It certainly has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b41edeb81d74530a134aece93e6de15\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Mallard assures me that it has. Well, as I look up at the packed public gallery at the moment, I realise that this is not a measure that is likely to be detaining viewers at home in front of Parliament TV, unable to tear themselves away from their sets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ENevertheless, this debate is an opportunity to acknowledge and bring to public attention the work of our Regulations Review Committee. Its tasks are often conducted below the radar and are often seriously dry subject matter. Nevertheless, it does perform a very important function. Although I am no longer a member of the committee, I was a permanent member of the Regulations Review Committee for the whole of the 49th Parliament, and, as Mr Chauvel acknowledged a few moments ago, I was the deputy chair for about 2 years. I would like to think that Mr Chauvel and I worked very well together in that time, and I do acknowledge his sterling efforts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIn fact, Mr Chauvel has retained the role in the 50th Parliament. I am really not sure what crime he committed in order to be saddled with the task for another 3 years, but apparently he enjoys the work. So if chairing the Regulations Review Committee makes Mr Chauvel happy, I want to assure anyone who may still be listening that that makes the rest of his colleagues on all sides of the House delirious with excitement. We are absolutely ecstatic about his willingness. He has taken one for the team and we all commend him for that. When he spoke on this bill earlier in the debate, his enthusiasm for the work was truly enchanting\u2014if, in fact, heroic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe Hon Chester Borrows outlined the need for the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill to be considered and enacted by the House annually to ensure that various orders and regulations that must be validated or confirmed by Parliament do not lapse. So it is probably worthwhile to write into the record of this first reading debate that the bill validates or confirms orders and regulations under a range of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c96cf7041864ac898a749fd78a99a3b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Come on! We were promised 2 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227f4077c1b4942f48f2140f4a5c1030c\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Mallard would like me to wind up. Would you like me to wind up fairly soon? I am being encouraged not to continue. I was simply thinking it would be worthwhile to bring into the public arena the fact that under this bill we are validating or confirming\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022056022e4ba644fecb454407498b8214b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Bring back Martin Gallagher. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9d78755d3694634a0b3cb59c7210a23\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he is a fine man. I certainly enjoy his friendship and his support in his new role as a councillor in Hamilton. Yes, I would say to bring him back to many fields of endeavour, but probably not to this House any time soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI will try, for the third time, to point out to those who may be listening, and who are wondering what exactly Mr Mallard was trying to say, that the bill validates or confirms orders and regulations under a range of legislation, including\u2014and this is the exciting bit\u2014the Animal Products Act 1999.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dacd3ff0c4f4de1bb2b3192f1e76b1b\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: The high point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e121a799f0ef46ba9f99027fa7bd1fae\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is the high point of the speech, as Ms Upston has just acknowledged. Also the Commodity Levies Act 1990\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022245d805a408c40099ff80009263e02f5\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: The deal\u2019s off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216dcc71cb7bd4293871e57f3dd1694fd\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: There is more. Wait, there is more: the Customs and Excise Act 1996, the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act, which, of course, got Mr O\u2019Rourke so excited a few minutes ago\u2014that is, the 2001 measure\u2014the Social Security Act 1964, the Road User Charges Act 2012, and the War Pensions Act 1954. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI will conclude by saying there are very good reasons for regulations to have expiry dates, and there are equally good reasons for many of them to be renewed each year. Other members have queried today whether this is the best way to do that. I will look forward to hearing whether they can come up with a better way of achieving that objective, but, in the meantime, I have great pleasure in supporting this bill\u2019s first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Regulations Review Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u0022be8921417f024c9ab64c10e3c56d3318\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be8921417f024c9ab64c10e3c56d3318\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (Minister for Building and Construction)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Leader of the House: I move, That the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill be reported to the House on or before 5 November 2012. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00222f30bea19d024a14bdeb91ac4d1d63de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f30bea19d024a14bdeb91ac4d1d63de\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00228dc2422a974b42de8d9bbefc4d67342d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228dc2422a974b42de8d9bbefc4d67342d\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am getting to my feet only to check with my colleague, who is the chair of the Regulations Review Committee, whether the restricted date is one that has been the subject of discussion and agreement. If he nods, then I will sit down. I am sure the debate, at that stage, will be concluded, otherwise I will keep going. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211e45f6d573b4248b609672156cccdf9\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Having paid close attention to my speech, you obviously\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa1c7029cdd64de19e2d863abe08e4e3\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I apologise to the member. I was drawn away to the Speaker\u2019s office at the Business Committee. It is clear, therefore, from either the nodding or the shaking that we are going to vote one way or the other on this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ba3b55abce8c447db34dbbc30c3837a4\u0022\u003EMarine Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002249c80960c8784d0793102882bb9e7ef5\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u002282bc145e9c60434b9c68e0521237f6c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282bc145e9c60434b9c68e0521237f6c2\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (Minister for Building and Construction)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Transport: I move, That the Marine Legislation Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee to consider the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill is to promote maritime safety and marine environment protection. The bill amends the Maritime Transport Act 1994\u2014an Act that I am very familiar with\u2014to enable New Zealand to accede to three international maritime conventions, to improve the clarity, completeness, and effectiveness or enforceability of certain provisions in the Act, and to transfer the local regulation of navigation safety from the Local Government Act 1974 to the Maritime Transport Act 1994. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThe bill also transfers the regulation of waste dumping and discharges from ships and offshore installations involved in seabed activities in the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf from Maritime New Zealand to the Environmental Protection Authority. This change is achieved through amendments to the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environment Effects) Act 2012. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThe bill will amend the Maritime Transport Act 1994. The Act provides a regulatory framework for the maritime transport sector. It seeks to promote safety in maritime transport, protect the marine environment, and implement New Zealand\u2019s obligations under international maritime conventions. In June 2008 the Cabinet economic development committee agreed to amend the Act, and those changes are reflected in the bill. Cabinet also agreed to transfer the provisions of the Local Government Act 1974 relating to navigation to the Maritime Transport Act 1994, with consequential changes as required. Cabinet decided in October 2011 to transfer certain environmental protection functions from Maritime New Zealand to the Environmental Protection Authority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThe main issues and the benefits of this are, first of all, the international maritime conventions. The bill enables New Zealand to accede to three international conventions to protect New Zealand\u2019s maritime interests. The grounding of the Rena on Astrolabe Reef has highlighted the need to update New Zealand\u2019s liability limitation regime for maritime claims. The bill will enable New Zealand to accede to the 1996 protocol to amend the international Convention on Limitation of Liability for Maritime Claims 1976. This will more than double the current liability limit. The limit will increase by a further 51 percent in 2015 when new limits under the protocol will come into force. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThe bill also enables New Zealand to ratify the International Convention on Civil Liability for Bunker Oil Pollution Damage 2001, which makes shipowners strictly liable for bunker oil spills. Claims for pollution damage from ships\u2019 bunker oil will be treated as a separate category of claim. The increased liability limit established by the 1996 protocol will apply to such claims. This arrangement provides a more certain remedy for parties facing economic loss or clean-up costs because of bunker oil spills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThirdly, the bill enables New Zealand to accede to the Protocol Relating to Intervention on the High Seas in Cases of Pollution by Substances other than Oil 1973. This will help protect New Zealand\u2019s environment in the event of a shipping accident involving hazardous or noxious substances. The bill also implements amendments to the International Convention on Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers 1978 that establish an internationally applicable alcohol limit for merchant seafarers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThe bill establishes clear functions, duties, and powers to complement the voluntary guidelines of the New Zealand Port and Harbour Marine Safety Code 2004, and maintains the division of central and local government responsibilities. These measures provide a stronger regime for the management of port and harbour and navigation safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E The bill also contains miscellaneous amendments to improve enforcement, modernise penalty levels, and clarify the application of the Maritime Transport Act. On recommendation of the Regulations Review Committee, the bill clarifies that the marine safety charge is a levy, not a user charge, and adds a requirement for consultation whenever regulations are being made to set or amend the levy. The bill also amends rule-making provisions in line with amendments already made to the rule-making provisions of the Civil Aviation Act 1990 and the Land Transport Act 1998. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003ETransfers of discharge and dumping functions from Maritime New Zealand to the Environmental Protection Authority are covered. The bill transfers regulation of waste dumping, except emergency dumping, and certain discharges within the exclusive economic zone and over the continental shelf from Maritime New Zealand to the Environmental Protection Authority. This will enable discharge and dumping applications to be considered entirely within the new exclusive economic zone regime, which has more comprehensive environment assessments and consultation requirements than the Maritime Transport Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EIn closing, the proposed changes will promote maritime safety and marine environmental protection through the enhancement of existing measures in the Maritime Transport Act of 1994\u2014may I say, a superb Act in itself. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002232bf7ebd097a42d5ad89e406960aa68b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232bf7ebd097a42d5ad89e406960aa68b\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E Labour will be supporting the Marine Legislation Bill to the select committee. This is an omnibus bill that amends the Maritime Transport Act of 1994, as Mr Williamson was just telling us, and the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act of 2012\u2014only recently passed into law, that particular bit of legislation\u2014to enact various international conventions around maritime safety and ocean pollution. This is a bill that is worthy of support. It is a reasonable bill. It is drafted to include a number of measures to boost port and harbour safety, and give a little more teeth to the voluntary New Zealand Port and Harbour Marine Safety Code. I will just mention some of those things. They are unremarkable but useful provisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe bill will extend authority for a Maritime New Zealand director to take action where port safety is a risk to the safety of shipping or the marine environment\u2014sounds reasonable enough. It places responsibility on port operators and regional councils to address maritime safety issues\u2014nothing to object to there. The Minister of Transport is given power to make rules to ensure port and ship traffic safety. The Local Government Act is amended to move some provisions into the Maritime Transport Act and allow local government to apply national maritime safety laws without creating by-laws. Regional councils will be required to appoint suitable harbour masters\u2014as they should\u2014who will, alongside enforcement officers, be able to issue infringement notices for breaches of maritime laws. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIt is an unobjectionable bill; it is just a little late. In fact, it is $50 million too late, because this National Government is such a shambles it could not get its act together to pass into law international conventions that would have saved the taxpayer $50 million. When this Government came to office at the end of 2008, the briefing to the incoming Minister recommended that he implement and sign up to the International Convention on Civil Liability for Bunker Oil Pollution Damage, otherwise known as the \u201Cbunker convention, and to a number of changes to the Convention on Limitation of Liability for Maritime Claims. If it had done that, instead of shelving that important advice, the New Zealand taxpayer would not be left in the position of having to fork out the lion\u2019s share of $50 million to pay for the clean up of the Rena grounding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThis Government should be embarrassed today that this bill is a form of fronting up in this House to the New Zealand taxpayer for a massive waste of taxpayers\u2019 resources because this Government is such a shambles it was not able to see the significance of implementing those recommendations from officials. Steven Joyce is on the record. He has acknowledged it. He said: \u201CUnfortunately it wasn\u2019t made clear there would be the effect that it is obviously having in this case in terms of the level of potential liability. It\u2019s disappointing,\u201D\u2014he said\u2014\u201Cbut you deal with the hand you\u2019re dealt with.\u201D Well, that Minister was advised in the incoming briefing that this Government should implement these conventions. The work was all done under the last Labour Government. It was there on the desk of the new Minister, but he could not see fit to implement those recommendations. As a result, taxpayers are going to have to pay the cost of cleaning up the Rena grounding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThere is another issue that jumps out from this bill that I think is worth commenting on in this first reading debate. Due to the International Convention on Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers 1978, the bill imposes an \u201Calcohol limit of 0.05 grams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood on masters, officers, and other merchant seafarers performing safety, security, or marine environmental duties.\u201D Why could the drafters of this bill have come up with this amount\u20140.05 grams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood? It is interesting. It is possibly a completely arbitrary amount\u20140.05. That is very interesting. That is the same 0.05 millilitres that the Government refused to legislate for people driving a motor vehicle. So it is OK for merchant seamen, seafarers, masters, and officers to be held to that standard of alcohol consumption when they are in charge of a vessel on our coastline, but it is not OK to expect the same level of people who are in charge of a motor vehicle on our roads. Well, that is very interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260b8a46be8df44a481c82d67853ffecf\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Usual double standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f6b0ab067754fa5946869c4790f6d49\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly, Mr Williams. It is the kind of double standard that we have come to expect from this Government. What we know is that all the research and all the international best practice points to 0.05 millilitres as being the obvious standard that is required of someone who is in charge of a motor vehicle or a ship on our coastline. It is the obvious standard that people should be held to, but what we know also is that the Minister of Transport pulled that provision and refused to support it because he did not like the optics, because it might be seen to be a bit too nanny State for this National Government. Yet it is perfectly happy for merchant seamen and officers to be held to this standard, and not allowed to have any more alcohol in their blood than 0.05 millilitres when they are in charge of a ship on our coastline. But apparently it is OK, Mr Bennett, for New Zealanders to drive a car when they have that much alcohol in their bloodstream. Well, I am sure we will have some very interesting discussions at the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee about that. Apparently about 80 vessels would be affected by this change, and the regulatory impact statement estimates that there will be 10 incidents per year that could be affected or avoided because of this new provision. This compares with the 34 percent of fatal car accidents that are linked to alcohol, and what we know is that National will not, against all the good advice it has had, reduce the blood-alcohol level for motorists to 0.05 millilitres. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIt is interesting, I think, also to note that the 0.05 level is already less restrictive than that faced by a number of vessels already operating on New Zealand\u2019s coastline. The two Cook Strait ferry operators have zero-alcohol limit, and Pacifica Shipping, the last remnant of our coastal shipping service, which has been destroyed by the policies of this National Government, has a blood alcohol limit of 0.04 for its employees. So a limit of 0.05 is not Draconian, but it is too Draconian for National to implement that limit in regard to motorists. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe third point that I want to make is that there are numerous other Maritime Transport Act amendments in this bill that relate to the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act. There are 37 pages of amendments to the exclusive economic zone legislation\u2014legislation that this National Government passed only a month ago. What kind of shambles is this\u2014that it would bring 37 pages of amendments to this House a month after the exclusive economic zone legislation was pushed through this House? What an absolute embarrassment! These amendments raise the question of why the Minister for the Environment, Amy Adams, had to dump the substantive changes in her Supplementary Order Paper 100 on the select committee rather than including them in the bill. It also goes some way to explaining why the exclusive economic zone legislation was rushed back from the select committee, as the Marine Legislation Bill must be passed this year if it is going to meet the January deadline that is set down in the conventions. This is really a shambles. Why is this Parliament being asked to process these many amendments only a month after National passed its exclusive economic zone legislation? I think members on that side of the House have some questions to answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002256adb2c33f044e9f9f2d0403a7f8dd70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256adb2c33f044e9f9f2d0403a7f8dd70\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E To members of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee who are here, we welcome the Marine Legislation Bill to our select committee. I am sure all members will be working hard and diligently to make sure that it progresses through in a speedy and timely manner. I would just like to thank the acting Minister, Maurice Williamson, for his work in this area. Maurice Williamson has had a long history in transport matters, especially maritime ones\u2014[Interruption]\u2014a long and proud history, as members of the Opposition are saying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThen we have Mr Phil Twyford, who has just resumed his seat. Phil is a good member of our committee. He is a good member. He is somebody who listens and works hard, so he is a good member. When he started off his speech, the first 5 minutes were brilliant, actually. He was going through the legislation and saying that he agrees with the changes that are being made and saying how supportive he is. The only thing he forgot to tell you was that it was a shame the Labour Party never did it when it had the chance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWhen Labour was in Government it did not pass the maritime legislation that was needed to protect New Zealand against a situation like the one caused by the Rena. Labour had the opportunity to do it, and did not do it. It is all right to come into this House now and say in hindsight: \u201CIf you look at the statement to the incoming Minister it says that you should have passed this legislation.\u201D, when we had 9 long years of Labour members sitting there, not passing it, not doing anything, and leaving it for a good National Government to have to deal with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe have had to deal with the problems that have been inflicted upon this country and this economy by the previous Government, and this is just another example of what it did wrong and what we have to deal with now. So it is a little bit rich for the Opposition to come into this House now and talk about delays and things like that. Those delays are not the effect. The real effect is that we had a previous Government that would not do it when it should have done it, and now we have to pick up the pieces. We are cleaning up after them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis bill is a good bill, and I presume that the Labour Party will support it all the way through. I think Labour members will recognise that the bill has a lot of things that are needed and should have been done when they had the chance, and I think they will support it. I think the New Zealand First Party will support it as well. I do not think we will have a problem there, but I think you will find that the Green Party members will be the only people voting against it, and that is because they will not read it and just want to vote against it like they normally do for everything else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4f9c133c5514549b532666b693a1931\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I find that offensive. Even I find that offensive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022125ff536d2d2416d9d74d73520bd0b4d\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: But I think that most reasonable parties in this House will vote for it. That is good. It means that we as a country can deliver good legislation going forward. Mr Mallard is over there saying something that is incomprehensible, but that is typical over on that side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWhen we look at the legislation we see there are some main provisions. There are some changes made to a number of other pieces of legislation and they include changes to the oversight of port, harbour, and navigation safety, and the implementation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a3ef3964682412d8afc82b54d84e9ab\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: What a shambles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba38f66c9c804b4cab3a8daed7c0e3f5\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014of some international maritime conventions and protocols. Mr Twyford is again saying it is a shambles. His Government did not do it\u2014that is the message that we have to get through to New Zealanders, not the message he is trying to promote, which is deliberately leading people down a path that is not the case. The real case is that Labour did not do it. There are also changes relating to the making of maritime and marine protection rules, and the transferring of the regulation of the discharge and dumping of waste. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo there are some very important changes there. All New Zealanders want to have a strong and beautiful natural environment on their coastlines. We are a country that has a lot of coast, and coming from an inland city, we are very fortunate to be able to go to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222030a0d3fd60449fb26f660ff6dda22f\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Where?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022067243f68b834e4b849b3fd2eeb44414\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The great city of Hamilton, to those members who did not know. The ability to go to our harbours and enjoy our beaches is something that all New Zealanders love and cherish. This is important in providing that environmental balance in our community, and, hopefully, the Greens will support it because they see the need and the desire to look after those environmental aspects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a154ce645dd4e6c810da8ba9897be5d\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: How much oil has been taken off the beaches?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b10928290f240a1a22b7eb653850c42\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: How much oil has been taken off the beaches? I do not know whether you can get oil off the beaches. Maybe that is something that the New Zealand First Party is looking at in its dreams. The reality is that you normally drill for oil, I think members of the New Zealand First Party will find. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis bill is a good bill. It is important for us going forward in regard to maritime legislation. This is a bill that makes the necessary changes. It is a bill that is overdue, but it has been overdue for many, many years, and the Opposition cannot blame the Government for that. This is a bill that achieves the right result, and we look forward to the select committee working through it in the best way possible. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00221fc7016da37542089b3477fa6d80929b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fc7016da37542089b3477fa6d80929b\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E David Bennett, who has just resumed his seat, has clearly been asleep for longer than I thought. I know he has been asleep for some time, but it was clearly longer, because he appears to have forgotten that the Rena did actually run aground on Astrolabe Reef. A large amount of oil washed up on the beaches, Mr Bennett\u2014a very large amount of oil\u2014and ordinary New Zealanders got out there with their shovels and their buckets and put their gloves on and helped clean up those beaches because it mattered to them. Meanwhile they said to themselves: \u201CWhat is the National Government doing? What\u2019s it been doing to make sure that when things like this happen, the cost to New Zealanders is mitigated?\u201D. The truth that Mr Bennett knows is that when his Government came in in 2008 not only had a select committee recommended that these conventions be signed up to but the drafting instructions for this legislation, for putting those international conventions into New Zealand law\u2014which would have significantly limited the liability on New Zealand taxpayers\u2014had been written.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe have the Official Information Act documents that show us that the drafting instructions were already written. The Government was ready to go on this, and it sat on it. It sat on this from day one of coming into Government. Then, in October 2011, we had the worst ever maritime disaster in this country, and that Government over there had had 3 years to get that law in place. The work had been done by the previous Labour Government. It was ready to go. The conventions were looked at and studied, the drafting instructions were written, and that Government let New Zealanders down by not making sure that legislation was in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EToday we have New Zealanders who believe in protecting their coastline and who got out there and worked hard to make sure that they cleaned up those beaches. They have been let down by this Government, because this Government failed to put in place the law so that there was an obligation on those shipping companies to meet their fair share of the costs. So today the bill comes here and we support it, because of course it is the right thing to do. But we support it knowing that this need not have happened. New Zealanders need not have had to foot such a huge bill if the Government had done its job properly and implemented these conventions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd3eaabc269840a5969dc6aac9ed12c9\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Before the break we had been discussing the Marine Legislation Bill, and in particular the aspect of the bill that the Labour Party strongly supports, which is finally passing into New Zealand law the International Convention on Civil Liability for Bunker Oil Pollution Damage, and the Convention on Limitation of Liability for Maritime Claims. These are two essential pieces of international law that can protect New Zealand\u2019s environment and New Zealand taxpayers, and that should have been done by this Government, which, when it came into office in 2008, had a bill. The drafting instructions had gone to the Parliamentary Counsel Office\u2014we have got the papers; it shows that\u2014and it sat on its hands. We have had had a lot of criticism coming across the House about what the previous Labour Government had done. What the previous Labour Government had done is do what it should have done: it had taken those conventions to a select committee, and the select committee had looked at them and approved them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264c09a8e9dc441999ce1288e695d40a6\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: When was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9f312e414c0485f9763508b0f7e9fee\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That was in 2008. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6c0d65958584eaeb4d0a1e8bb5e2986\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245888f77f00d46fabf105307c9ec1a6c\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That was in 2008. The Government comes into office, it gets a briefing that says these are ready to go, the drafting instructions have gone to the Parliamentary Counsel Office, and it sat on its hands. Then in October 2011, we had New Zealand\u2019s worst ever maritime disaster, which at the moment the Government thinks will cost us up to $50 million, and this Government sat on its hands. It means that we will wear the majority of that cost as a country. This Government has let New Zealanders down. This Government has let the people of the Bay of Plenty down, because it failed to do its job and put these conventions into law. So today a bill comes to Parliament and we say: \u201CYes, thank you very much, that\u2019s great.\u201D But it is too little, too late from this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhile we are on the subject of the Rena, it stands to me as remarkable as we come towards the 1-year anniversary that we still have not had a proper comprehensive inquiry into our worst ever maritime disaster. This merits a royal commission. I know Gareth Hughes from the Greens has been calling for that, Labour has been calling for that, and the Government does not want to talk about it. It does not want to talk about it because it sat on its hands for 3 years, when it should have been putting in place the conventions that would have limited the liability for the taxpayer. It does not want to talk about it because in those 5 clear days after the Rena ran aground when so little happened, when something could have been done to prevent the worst of the damage, nothing happened. There should be an inquiry into the Rena and it is outrageous that this Government has stepped back from that. So we do welcome the introduction of these conventions into law. We know that this is the right thing to do. The Government knows it is the right thing to do. It is just that it has taken it 3 years to finally do the right thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222565aed789ff4caa91484c3b0e36b847\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: What have they been doing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d4765e799ed4d69adefc014e79768f5\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: What has it been doing? That is a very good question, Ruth Dyson. What is this Government doing? It is distracted on issues and stuff-ups of its own making around asset sales. It is not doing the kind of work that is actually important for protecting our environment and protecting New Zealand taxpayers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI want to move on to another matter, which my colleague Phil Twyford did raise, and that is the change within this particular law around the question of blood-alcohol limits for masters, officers, and other merchant seafarers performing safety, security, or marine environmental duties. This comes under the International Convention on Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers. This is an important area. We want to be assured that people controlling vessels in our area are not under the influence of alcohol. So it is fantastic to see that the bill will impose an alcohol limit of 0.05 grams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood. That is a very good limit. It is a limit that obviously makes sense for people who are using vessels in the seas. Would it not also make sense for people who are using things on land in New Zealand? The other side of the House have been telling us: \u201COh no, we can\u2019t reduce the blood-alcohol limit to 0.05 grams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood inside New Zealand.\u201D But suddenly a bill shows up in the House that says we need to do it when people are in control of vessels in our waters. We support that on this side of the House, but I look to the other side of the House and I say: \u201CWhy aren\u2019t they capable of putting this in place for the safety of New Zealanders on the roads in New Zealand?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbfde83dc501472bb5f1c97b4dd9875a\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: Ah!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d16a5c5a27794ddb9c56f618446b4419\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Joyce is here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222394702f7b86427a9c16e0ccfdf48054\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: Because you were so good at that!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ecf2c7e833f4f8c871938b86081d72b\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Joyce is on the other side of the House. Mr Joyce used to think this was a good idea. He went on radio and said: \u201CI was shocked at how much wine I could drink and still be under the limit.\u201D But then he backed off. He backed off. The focus group must have mentioned the nanny State word and Steven Joyce backed off. This is the right thing to do on the high seas, Mr Joyce. It is the right thing to do in New Zealand. But once again the National Government lets down New Zealanders by not doing the right thing here on land, but instead it puts up a law that says, yes, this should be right for masters on the sea. Well, that is good; we support that. But it is time for Mr Joyce and the National Government to actually get up and do the right thing for New Zealanders on the roads, not just on the high seas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe last matter I want to come to in this bill is the 37 pages of amendments to the exclusive economic zone legislation. Those people watching on Parliament TV tonight, who follow Parliament regularly, may be aware that we have spent quite a lot of time recently on the exclusive economic zone bill, so it is some surprise to find that there are another 37 pages of amendments to a bill that we have only just passed in this House. I guess we should count our blessings. The Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper that she did put up on the exclusive economic zone legislation was long enough, and it would have been a whole lot longer if this had happened. But it does point to the absolute shambles that is lawmaking under this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022737e2113cf8b4095b16dbb82682af3f3\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s called negotiating with you people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228979860886fa49aeb42aa3c806e221fa\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Maggie Barry says it is called negotiation. That well-known mediator and peacemaker Maggie Barry is telling us that it is all about negotiation. Well, what we know on this side of the House is that this is a bill that should pass. We are supporting it on its first reading, but it is a bill that should have been before this House long ago. It would have limited the liability that New Zealanders have had from the Rena. It is something that we want to see pass through this House, but this Government needs to own up to New Zealanders that it let New Zealanders down by not putting this legislation in place when it already had the legislation drafted and when it knew it was the right thing to do. It sat on its hands to New Zealanders\u2019 cost. Finally, tonight it is doing something about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022415db71060bb4e72a597d65268b430b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022415db71060bb4e72a597d65268b430b5\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. I rise to take a call on this Marine Legislation Bill. We are talking about something of great importance to New Zealanders: our oceans. In New Zealand we love our oceans and we want to protect them. We are a coastal people. It is not just about how we get our income from our vibrant fishing and aquaculture industries; it is also where we play and it is where we recreate. This is where we boat, we fish, and we surf. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EAs we saw over the Rena incident, which has been touched on numerous times in this debate, that sacred relationship that we have with our moana\u2014our water\u2014in New Zealand was shaken right to the core. Oil on our beaches was not this academic thing you saw on TV and in the papers; it was something New Zealanders could see, they could touch, and they could smell. It was something that they were deeply shocked about with our Government\u2019s response and its failure to act with the haste, the urgency, the expertise, and the infrastructure needed to respond to what was our worst maritime disaster. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI regularly went to Tauranga in the days and weeks following that disaster, and what I saw there was almost like a relationship someone has when someone dies. In the first days we saw the shock\u2014people could not believe what was happening on our waters. Then we saw the anger\u2014anger because there was no one on the beaches to clean up the stuff. There were no booms at some of the estuaries. Then we saw the sadness\u2014the sadness as those dead birds and those dead animals washed up on the beaches. So it is good to be in this House\u2014the House of law in New Zealand\u2014to be debating how we can improve our marine environmental and safety protection legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ELooking at the structure of the bill\u2014it is an omnibus bill\u2014I think it has three main parts of importance. It amends a couple of bills, the Maritime Transport Act and the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act. It makes a couple of big changes. The first is to amend the Maritime Transport Act in terms of port and harbour safety, local regulation, and navigation safety. In terms of the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act and in terms of marine pollution regulation, it changes the way that rules and regulations are developed. And, lastly, it allows New Zealand to accede to the three international maritime conventions that we have talked about and that I will talk about at some length. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EFirst up, I would like to say that the Green Party is welcoming the introduction of this bill. We will be supporting it. We urge the public to make a submission to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. We want to hear from experts, because there are some good parts in this bill, and there are a few questions we would also like to raise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E In this contribution I would like to touch very briefly on some of the environmental and safety protection changes advocated in this piece of legislation, but then touch on the financial liability we saw with the Rena. First up, the safety provisions in the legislation we think make a lot of sense. They look pretty common sense, from a cursory reading. That is why we welcome hearing from the harbour masters and hearing from the experts, and hope they make submissions to the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe bill gives effect to the amendments to the International Convention on Standards of Training Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers. This is something that we have heard in this debate. It is curious that this Government is quite happy to go against all the international evidence, all the calls from New Zealanders\u2014both experts and lay public\u2014for a lowering of the blood-alcohol level. Internationally, it is quite happy for seafarers, watchkeepers, and people doing environmental monitoring around ships to have a blood-alcohol level of 0.5, but when it comes to people driving a tonne of metal down the road at 100 kilometres per hour, it is quite happy to have legal intoxication. I think it is quite curious, and I think the mad contradiction of the Government\u2019s policies has been quite graphically highlighted with this provision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe are seeing 37 pages of amendments to the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act\u201437 pages about a law we passed only a month ago. I think the Government benches should be embarrassed. It is an absolute shambles. You have got to ask what is happening in the Government\u2019s decision-making processes to have this happening. Are these different Ministers not talking to each other? It is an embarrassing shambles. It highlights the sloppy process. It is mostly highlighted by the fact that we saw over the Rena that it was the taxpayer who had to pick up the tab because of the Government\u2019s laziness, because of the Government\u2019s incompetence, and also because of the Government\u2019s simple inability to read the briefings to the incoming Minister that advocated New Zealand signing up and acceding through legislation to three international conventions that would have protected our taxpayers when this accident occurred. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThis accident was foreseeable, this accident was avoidable, and the taxpayers\u2019 money could have been better protected, but because of the decisions made by the Minister Steven Joyce, who is in the House, the taxpayers had to front up. We know from former Minister Nick Smith that the cost of the Rena oil spill to date has cost the taxpayer $130 million. It was not only shock that people in the Bay of Plenty and around the country saw; it has had a huge fiscal impact on the taxpayer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWhat we know is that Steven Joyce must be the most unpopular Minister around the National Cabinet table. Well, that is what we hear from the Whale Oil\u2019s blog, anyway. It is a cunning case study of how a Minister can leave a mess for other Ministers. What we saw was that in 2008 Minister Joyce had on his table a briefing saying: \u201CYou need to protect the taxpayer.\u201D The Labour Government had done all the work. It had even started drafting the thing. Minister Joyce said: \u201COh, no, don\u2019t worry; a future Minister can deal with that. The taxpayer will pick up the tab.\u201D Just like in transport, the Minister, the \u201CColossus of Roads\u201D, went around the country announcing $14 billion of motorways, then he left it up to the current Minister, Gerry Brownlee, who has to face the music that there just is not enough money in the kitty. We saw it with the biofuels strategy. We heard this morning on the radio that Steven Joyce is now welcoming Norske Skog moving to Tasmania and enlarging its plant. All of a sudden, biofuels are on the Government\u2019s agenda, despite the fact that in May the Government scrapped all biofuel support. It is curious as a case study in how a Minister can leave a mess for other Ministers. The serious issue is that his very purposeful decisions have meant that the taxpayers have had to pick up the tab. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIt is good that we are seeing these international liabilities finally getting acceded to, after some of them were negotiated decades ago\u2014decades ago\u2014and taxpayers picked up that tab. It is good to see. But I also want to point out that the Government is missing a whole bunch of other steps. It is good to see that the Government has finally listened to our oil spill protection plan released in October last year, but, unfortunately, it missed out a couple of the other parts that the Green Party was calling for, like an inquiry into the Rena. It is almost a whole year since we had the Rena disaster. We have had a couple of Government inquiries but no broad-based inquiries looking at the role that these\u2014in many cases\u2014untrained foreign crews have in New Zealand waters. We have one of the least regulated shipping regimes in the world. What role did that play? We need an inquiry to look at why on earth the Government did not have oil spill equipment in the country. It is meant to be able to deal with an oil spill of 3,500 tonnes, but it struggled and needed two airplane-loads full of equipment to cope with a spill of only a few hundred tonnes. We need to know why the Government refused the advice of both corporates and unions for a rapid response multi-purpose oil spill response vessel. That is why we need an inquiry. It is high time the Government got on and announced one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe need to ask the question of why the Government has not taken the advice of the Green Party\u2014again, in our plan\u2014to adequately fund the Oil Pollution Fund. This Government raided it. There was $12 million to cope when accidents like these happen. The Government raided it and left only $3.4 million, but we know that the cost is $130 million. We know that the Government raided Maritime New Zealand\u2019s transport pantry, leaving it without adequate funds. The Government has ignored our advice to recycle the funds from the fuel excise levy paid by boaties, which currently gets spent on the roads. Why does it not use that to adequately fund Maritime New Zealand to protect the environment we love? Lastly, what about compulsory shipping lanes and bringing back a form of flagging Kiwi vessels on our waters? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI will not go into detail on the three maritime conventions. I have got to add that although we are increasing the amounts that the New Zealand Government can access in case of an accident like this\u2014when a ship spills and bunker fuel goes out\u2014there is no change to the Resource Management Act, which was also shown to be woefully inadequate. There was a $130 million cost, but under the Government\u2019s law it could claim only $600,000. It saw the light with the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act and actually increased that amount, but why are we not amending the Resource Management Act to allow those penalties to be increased here? Why are we not increasing the insurance amount required for oil drilling? We know that the Government wants to go on this risky, dangerous deep-sea oil drilling binge. We know that in the Gulf of Mexico it cost the American Government and oil companies $40 billion, yet this Government says: \u201COh, it\u2019s all right, guys, just have $30 million in insurance and that is all you need.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe also see the Government failing to sign up to the Oil Pollution Compensation Fund\u2019s supplementary fund, which, in the case of a tanker having a spill, means that the Government has got access to more than US$1.7 billion. Again, it is a missing piece of the puzzle that we will be raising in the select committee and hearing about from the experts. We look forward to engaging constructively. We acknowledge that this legislation is trying to improve the legislative regime for New Zealand, and, as such, we will work constructively to try to improve it even further. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb45dc2fc6c04112b4b6f287d2e99eed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb45dc2fc6c04112b4b6f287d2e99eed\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E It is a shame that a significant event like the Rena grounding has been turned into such a political football here tonight. I think it is worthwhile acknowledging the people who spent hours and hours and hours on the beaches cleaning up the oil. I think it is worthwhile acknowledging the people who have risked their lives to try to dismantle and take containers off that grounded vessel. The people who acted immediately, the first responders to be on the scene so quickly and to be doing the work to try to sort out that situation as quickly as possible, should also be acknowledged. So rather than turning it into a political football, I think we should firstly be acknowledging the excellent work that has been done on trying to recover from that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EIf you were to listen to the speeches of the Opposition members, you would almost come to believe and understand from their speeches that the Government drove the boat on to the reef. In fact, no, this Government has actually acted pretty quickly and very swiftly to deal with the consequences of that disaster. I think Steven Joyce and other Ministers who were involved should actually be congratulated on it too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThis legislation, the Marine Legislation Bill, is about making changes to the oversight of port, harbour, and navigation safety. It is also about making changes to implement our international maritime conventions and protocols. We have been criticised tonight\u2014although there seems to be cross-party support for the legislation\u2014and there has been a lot of criticism about the time that has been taken for these protocols to see legislative change. I think it is worthwhile looking at the dates, however, that these protocols were actually signed, because we are getting the criticism that this Government has done very little to implement the protocols. But, in fact, many of these protocols were signed a long time ago, and actually before the Labour Government came into office last, in 1999. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EIf Labour members want to criticise National for not implementing these protocols fast enough, they should really be looking at their own record, whereby they failed to implement these protocols as well. The Protocol to the Convention on Limitation of Liability for Maritime Claims was signed in 1996. The International Convention on Civil Liability for Bunker Oil Pollution Damage came into effect in 2001. So if one wants to criticise the time that has been taken, one should look in the mirror when making comments like that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThe fact of the matter is that there was a disaster in New Zealand that has led to this greater impetus for these protocols to be enacted through legislation. We should be saying good on the Government for doing that, well done to the Government for putting in place legislation to bring these protocols into effect, and let us all work together on ensuring that the legislation we have in front of us is as well written as it can be and enacts the protocols in the way that we want it to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EI also want to touch briefly on the question of the protocol that sets the maximum alcohol limit of 0.05 grams of alcohol, which is going to be implemented through the legislation. Yes, I heard the criticism from Opposition parties on this as well, but I think there is actually a very logical explanation for it. If one actually reads the bill, you will see that New Zealand is a party to the International Convention on Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers\u2014for seafarers. That is actually a 1978 protocol. I think there were several Labour Governments in place post-1978, if we are to be consistent with our points. Yes, that protocol does recommend that a maximum alcohol limit of 0.05 grams be implemented, but the logical reason why it is different from what we have in place for road users is that it is around risk mitigation. You have to say that if there is going to be somebody behind a multimillion-dollar vessel carrying hundreds of millions of tonnes of oil, with the risk that it could cause millions of dollars\u2019 worth of damage to New Zealand\u2019s sea and to New Zealand\u2019s beaches, then, yes, you would have a greater risk mitigation strategy in place. That is what this is around. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EIf we were to take the logical conclusion of what the Opposition parties are arguing, that any laws around what happens at sea should also be reflected in what happens on land with vehicles, then I would like to bring up the case of aviation. I come from an aviation background. In aviation, the aviation rules, the regulations, actually do not allow pilots to have any alcohol in their blood when they are flying. No crew member in aviation can have any alcohol in their blood. So if the Opposition parties are saying that if there is a 0.05 gram limit for people at sea then that should also apply on land for vehicles, then I am guessing that they are also arguing that if there is a zero limit for aviation then there should also be a zero limit for vehicles. I look forward to them coming out and telling the New Zealand public that there is to be a zero limit for alcohol for vehicles, because I do not think that would go down very well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003ELet us all get behind this legislation and realise that it is implementing some important international protocols that arguably should have been put in place some years ago. But if we are going to be critical about the timing, then we should all look in the mirror, because it is a case of several Governments having not implemented those protocols. We are taking the steps now to do that, and that should be congratulated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022 data-id=\u002296e064aadfff41c68ad35a9102cc1604\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296e064aadfff41c68ad35a9102cc1604\u0022\u003EBRENDAN HORAN (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak on the Marine Legislation Bill. New Zealand First will support this bill through the first reading, but with reservations. The New Zealand First stance on firm regulation for the safety and protection of our shipping, harbours, and environment is robust and well documented. How sad it is that if it was not for the deregulation of our shipping industry by the National Government in the early 1990s, a disaster such as the Rena would never have occurred. As I said, we will support the first reading, but based on increasing the damage liabilities and enforcing alcohol limits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003EThere is a question mark about our processes. We need look only at the petition by the people of Gisborne\u2014the good people of Gisborne. They wonder about our Transport and Industrial Relations Committee\u2019s effectiveness in fair, robust discussion and dissection of submissions, because, you see, the people of Gisborne were ignored. There were 10,800 signatures on a petition, but the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee ignored them. So New Zealand First is very concerned about the nature and fair determination of that select committee. The question has to be asked whether this committee is up to asking the hard questions of submitters and to going with what is fair and true, rather than party majority - based outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003EYou know, I found it very interesting listening to \u201CMr Fait Accompli\u201D earlier\u2014that is, the chair of the select committee, David Bennett. You see, I was there at the select committee when the soft, wet-towel questions were asked of Maritime New Zealand. It was little more than Government propaganda. That is what we have had from this Government regarding the Rena. It has been interesting listening to people talking about the Rena disaster as if all the oil is cleaned up, but it is not. There are still at least 10 tonnes or more of oil in the Rena. I have been talking to the experts about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E You know, let us now consider some of the propaganda. Do you remember the week before the election when Mr Joyce came out and said that all the oil had been cleaned up? Do you remember that? It was a week before the election. I have an iPad here with photographs. I can pull them up if you like. I will do that, because it is interesting. Listen up, you National backbenchers over there. Cast your eyes on this. Hold on\u2014it takes a little while to pull them up sometimes. It is just like the National Government and how the people of New Zealand are pulling you up [Interruption]\u2014you see, they are waking up! Here we go. So here we have a picture of oil on the beach. I have got here a picture of an Irish tourist at Christmas with oil all over her feet. I have in here a picture of my daughter, who is 6 years old, off Papamoa beach in January, with oil in her hair and her ears. I have in here pictures of locals who had to even make tools to collect tonnes of oil off the beach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003EYou know, it is just amazing, because one would never think we would have such propaganda in New Zealand, that anybody would get away with it, or that they could block the media from going out to that boat. You see, I probably know more about the Rena, because at night I went to where those foreigners who were cleaning up the Rena, the salvagers, were going for their dinner and their drinks, all on the taxpayer. So I found out exactly what they knew about how much oil was taken off the Rena and about the processes involved, which this country was kept in the dark over. Even now, when we ask the Government how much of the taxpayers\u2019 money has been spent on this clean-up, members over there come up with a figure like $38.9 million. But we know that it is much more than that. You see, we in Tauranga know about the \u201Cspillionaires\u201D who have been created. We know about the relatives of certain members who have these massive crane contracts. We know all about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003EYou know, when this Government is asked about the true cost to the taxpayer of New Zealand and the people of Tauranga, why do you not include the lost jobs, the devastation on the businesses, and the thousands who have left Tauranga because of the devastating effect that the Rena has had on tourism? And while we are at it, where is the associate transport\u2014oh, I should not say that. Is it not amazing how the Associate Minister of Transport has managed to avoid this bill? We needed Simon Bridges to be standing up for the people of Tauranga through this bill\u2014you know, the squeaky-voiced one. It is amazing his voice is so squeaky, because it should be a whole lot smoother for the amount of oil that has spilt on the Tauranga beaches, which he has done nothing about. It should be smooth like Mr Joyce\u2019s. But I will say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022975830c9e74a45e6a234f4e3b50f7464\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: This is shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022683925932bea4b3d955c57d86aeea6db\u0022\u003EBRENDAN HORAN\u003C/span\u003E: No, what is shameful is the woeful, inadequate effort that this Government has made for, and the woeful, inadequate service that this Government has given to, the people of Tauranga and the people of New Zealand over the most devastating oil spill that we have ever had in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003EBut I will say that this bill does have some potential, because this bill does set out to give regional councils powers to appoint harbour masters and enforcement officers and to establish navigation by-laws. It empowers regional harbour masters and enforcement officers with the authority to issue infringement notices for breaches of maritime rules. It also almost doubles the liability limits for maritime claims for loss of life, injury, property damage, etc. So there are a few things in here that are very good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003EHowever, I am concerned when we look at changing the Maritime Transport Act so that the director of Maritime New Zealand has the power to take action when port management poses a risk to shipping and/or the environment. I am concerned about that because, unlike the backbenchers of National over there, I live in Tauranga, and I was there. I was there when we had 5 days of beautiful weather, and the National Government did nothing. It sat on its haunches. Then on the 6th day, when the weather started to get bad and it realised that it better do something, it held a public meeting, and it was at Tauranga Boys\u2019 College. It was in the hall. Those National members were there with the national appointee, this director of Maritime New Zealand. And what did they organise in this hall that fits about 800 people? They organised a very small video screen, which nobody could see. They could not even organise a sound system that would work for all the people who were in there, so nobody really heard anything much from that day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003EI remember asking the question of Simon Bridges, who was chairing that meeting, \u201CWhat are you going to do on Thursday, when the winds turn west by north-west?\u201D. The answer was \u201COh, we are hoping for a change in the weather.\u201D You see, a person of the sea or that area should have known, and would have known, that when the winds turn west by north-west there, that oil was heading down to Maket\u016B to devastate the endangered dotterel population. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003EYou know, there is a lot to be said about this bill. It is pretty big. Here it is. Is it not big? We might end up with some legislation in here to punish polluters of a maritime nature, but where in this bill are the safeguards of oil and pollution response? Sadly, this bill lacks the essential ingredient: it lacks the preventive cure. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6caca97f2bb4514a2e7027f86fc890d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6caca97f2bb4514a2e7027f86fc890d\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Normally I would say that it is a pleasure to follow Brendan Horan as a speaker, but I am afraid\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f825b4dd34524b7fa49e60153053745b\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Sit down then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8319adc169f494fa1d49367402f142b\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is not quite that simple, Mr Faafoi. The reality is that he wasted an awful lot of his speech dealing with minutiae, and dealing with personal difficulties that he has with other members of Parliament, and there was very little concentration on the Marine Legislation Bill. Indeed, it is quite interesting to hear the expressions of commitment that people have to the environment when something has gone wrong. I would have thought it more beneficial to the public, to this House, and to the level of debate to concentrate on what the bill will do. People are permitted to say what their connection with the environment is, but they should realise\u2014this is not a criticism of Gareth Hughes, not a criticism at all\u2014that others have an association with the marine environment as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EIndeed, a lot of my early years of life were spent being an oyster farmer in Hokianga. I was very conscious of the purity of water and the need for that sort of thing. But so much concentration has been given to the tragic event of the Rena that I am not sure exactly what people think legislation can do. No law that I am aware of can give absolute protection against accident, against marine breakdown, against human failings in officers and crew. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EMuch has been made that this legislation could have been introduced at an earlier period. Well, if you look at the legislation we pass, I would have thought that that applies to most legislation. Generally we follow behind the requirement, rather than in anticipation of the need. When we do do that, I notice this Government comes in for a lot of criticism. Just think about that. Just dwell on it a little. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EIt is said that this bill could have been introduced as soon as we became the Government. Well, if it was that close\u2014and I reflect the view of my colleague Mr Jami-Lee Ross\u2014why could it not have been done a little earlier? Why is it that now, after an awful event, it should have been done earlier? Why was legislation not introduced by the previous Government? I do not think that we are going to be told that. I do not think we are going to be told. But I do encourage the members opposite to reflect on their criticism of our not having legislation in place to deal with events that may not have happened in the past\u2014may not have happened in the past\u2014and of our introducing legislation so that we can cope with events when they do happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EI reflect back to Q\u002BA on Sunday, when our Minister of Internal Affairs was talking about legislation that could be introduced to process large numbers of people who have not arrived yet. Will we be criticised for that? I guarantee we will. But perhaps Opposition members will think about things a little in the light of their response and reaction to this particular bill not having been introduced earlier. These changes that are going to be introduced show that National is committed to building a more competitive and productive economy with a commitment and a balance between strong, sensible legislation and effectiveness towards the environment. It provides certainty around the laws that are involved, as well as improving safety and enforcement practices and environmental protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe main provisions of the Marine Legislation Bill\u2014rarely touched on in speeches so far from the other side of the House\u2014make amendments to the Maritime Transport Act and the exclusive economic zone legislation, including changes to the oversight of port, harbour and navigation safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022247d18b5d37a4e19a39d0d734b16518a\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: I said that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d78b18c8464444d0aead37fca041ad30\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am sure you did. Actually, I heard that your speech was one of the better ones\u2014and I am sorry, but on that score, that does not say a lot, Phil. But I did hear it was one of the better ones. It concentrated on the bill, on things like implementing the international maritime conventions and protocols\u2014which is a really good idea\u2014changes relating to the making of maritime and marine protection rules, and transferring the regulation of discharge and dumping of waste. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EOur safety procedures in our ports and harbours will always need improvement towards being state of the art. They are expensive pieces of infrastructure. Amendments will give clear authority for Maritime New Zealand to take action in situations where port management poses a significant risk to the safety of shipping and of the marine environment. This will reinforce the important role of regional council harbour masters in maintaining maritime safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThis is a useful piece of legislation. It is incorporating changes to other legislation. That, too, is a good thing. I cannot see why members on the other side of the House are getting quite so upset. They should be pleased. They should, in the words of one of my colleagues who spoke earlier, be pleased. They should say well done to National, and I know that in their heart of hearts that is what they want to do. That is what they want to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThey are smiling nicely because they know this is a useful piece of legislation. They are smiling nicely because they know they can give us a little bit of stick, but we have done what they should have done. We have done it now. We are facing up to it. We are meeting the requirements. Members opposite are basically pleased. They will join us in voting for this bill. I would hope that New Zealand First will join us in voting for this bill. I would hope that the Greens and all the other parties will vote for it, because there is no danger in it. There is no harm in it. It is a good bill, and I commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00229782a41a38824f48a5479db8d4ebc54e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229782a41a38824f48a5479db8d4ebc54e\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I want to begin by praising the Hon Gerry Brownlee, the Minister responsible for this legislation, the Marine Legislation Bill. I say that it is an absolute pleasure for me to be standing in this House and supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI just want to give a little background to the frustration that we on this side of the House are feeling, not about the content of the legislation but the fact that had it been introduced when the select committee recommended and the House understood it was to be progressed, then the New Zealand taxpayer would be $50 million better off. I bet every single person in this House could think of a really good use for $50 million\u2014a better use for $50 million than cleaning up oil on the beaches of Papamoa and Maket\u016B, as Brendan Horan has so graphically illustrated. In my electorate, we could have a lot of fences between my constituents\u2019 homes and the rocks that are making their houses unsafe. That $50 million would actually protect the whole lot of them. They could all go back and live in their homes, instead of living in horrible garages and caravans, as they currently are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EBut that is not to undermine the excellent quality of this. Mr Auchinvole and his colleague from Auckland, Mr Ross, I think, did not seem to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad3dd801e8cf4b4c9736305966216dda\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Lee Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a59aee64779485d936408bbc6d1afd7\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014sorry, Lee Ross\u2014realise that actually the reason\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298875a661d4441a89e2300d6cef19a1b\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f44493ef8824ab1bb51e69dcf67c08d\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I was right the first time. It is very confusing when you have so many names! I am sorry about that. He did not seem to realise about the international conventions that this legislation puts into practice. The bunker oil convention is the critical one, and that did not come into force until 2008, so it was not actually possible for legislation to have been introduced under the Labour-led Government of the time. The Transport and Industrial Relations Committee looked at that convention, reported back into the House, and said it should be passed into law. The incoming Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7792814d6814ad8b6766d7c93a6750e\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: When was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022834c0d492a6a42a49e8ea6bebed0632c\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: At the end of 2008. The incoming Minister of Transport got a briefing that said that this legislation was ready to go and it should be introduced so that we could update the Maritime Transport Act in 2009. For some reason, and I am sure that members in the House will ask the Hon Steven Joyce what his reason for not progressing it was, the Government chose to not progress this legislation, which had already been considered in the convention consideration of the select committee and which was ready to go. So that was 2009, early on in the piece. We know what happened. On 5 October 2011 the Rena ran aground on the Astrolabe Reef. Jami-Lee Ross\u2014if I say it like that I am sure I will get the combination of first names and second names correct\u2014basically said \u201CWell, we weren\u2019t steering the Rena. We didn\u2019t ride it on to the reef. It wasn\u2019t the Government\u2019s fault.\u201D Well, nobody said it was, actually. I remember Steven Joyce raising the same point at the time. What we said then, and continue to say now, is that had the Government done the right thing and passed the legislation, which was ready to go, then the people who were in control of that situation would have been liable for the costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EActually, it is only a percentage of the costs, because I have been there and seen what damage it did to the communities. I know that the people who rely on seafood as part of their culture and way of life were devastated by what happened to their surrounding areas. I know that the people who operated the tourism facilities in Tauranga, Papamoa, the Mount\u2014in those areas\u2014were devastated that their livelihood was threatened by something that they were not even sure they were going to get compensation for. Thank goodness the Government came to the party and supported those businesses, but it was not required to. It was goodwill, and I want to acknowledge the Government for doing that. But the point that Labour, the Greens, and New Zealand First have been making is that this legislation that could have protected the taxpayers and was all ready to go, and had been worked on, was totally ignored by the Government. We cannot understand that. What have the Minister of Transport and his predecessor been doing for the last 4 years if they could not progress a bill that not only was ready to go but had cross-party support in this Parliament? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe second part of this bill is an amendment to the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act of 2012. It is really interesting when you look at the fact that we have been waiting for 4 years for this bill to come in to protect us against damage, such as what occurred with the Rena reefing, and yet the second part of this very same bill has got 37 pages of amendments\u201437 pages of amendments\u2014to the exclusive economic zone legislation, to a bill that we passed just a matter of weeks ago. How can it be? A bill that has just gone through this Parliament, not rammed through under urgency\u2014it went through a proper select committee process\u2014did not get support from our party because the very point of it was not achieved in the legislation. Numerous amendments were ignored by the Minister and subsequently by her colleagues. Great efforts were made for a bipartisan approach. A multiparty approach would have followed in terms of the exclusive economic zone legislation, because we considered it was something too important to just override for some sort of petty political point-scoring. But the Minister went ahead and said \u201CNo, I\u2019m not going to alter it. I\u2019ll just go ahead.\u201D Now, just a matter of weeks later, we see 37 pages of amendments. I think that is a bit of an indictment, really, on the shambles of process that this Government has been operating under. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Transport is clearly not on top of this bit of work. The fact that it has taken him so long to get it out of the cupboard and into the House has cost us $50 million. The Government, day in, day out, tells us about cuts to front-line services that we have to put up with in our constituencies because there is not enough money, and here it is, frittering away $50 million because it could not get the bill on to the Order Paper fast enough. That is just bad management, actually. It is bad House management. It is a shambles and it reflects very poorly on the Minister. The Minister for the Environment has an equally poor reflection cast on her in this legislation. There are 37 pages of amendments to a bill on which the ink has hardly dried. It was only in the last sitting period that this Parliament was debating that legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI just want to conclude by acknowledging the criticism, I suppose, that perhaps was a little unfair that Chris Auchinvole, who spoke immediately prior to me, talked about in relation to Brendan Horan\u2019s speech. He said that Mr Horan had got quite obsessed with \u201Cminu-ties\u201D. I know that a number of my colleagues have been discussing this very point at some length today. I know that Richard Prosser, Brendan Horan\u2019s colleague, has been tweeting about that very subject and has made awards on this \u201Cminu-ties\u201D subject. I want to just acknowledge Mr Speaker\u2014not the current Speaker in the chair, but our regular Speaker\u2014and I also want to acknowledge H V Ross Robertson and Alfred Ngaro, who are three of the male members of the House who are wearing their new ties today and who look extraordinarily dashing in their ties, if I might just say so. So thank you Mr Auchinvole for acknowledging that. It is great\u2014[Interruption] I beg your pardon. At the risk of being named and sent from the Chamber, can I also acknowledge, Mr Deputy Speaker, your extraordinarily classy tie and say how well it looks on you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESeriously, it is really good to be able to support this legislation. I am disappointed that it has taken so long to come before the House, but I look forward to its speedy progress through to its passing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u002208729c8290eb44698f7d4a6ab62f1753\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208729c8290eb44698f7d4a6ab62f1753\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great pleasure to rise in support of this omnibus bill, the Marine Legislation Bill, that is being presented to the House tonight, and to hear a number of interesting speeches from members from all sides of the House\u2014some more enlightened than others. I cannot help but just point out to the honourable member Ruth Dyson, who has just resumed her seat, that she said in her speech that the International Convention on Civil Liability for Bunker Oil Pollution Damage was adopted in 2008. Well, in fact a quick check of the bill indicates that it was actually adopted in 2001, which would have given plenty of time for Labour to have enacted legislation and taken some action on it, should Labour have chosen to, during its 9 long years when it had the opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EBut this is, as I said, an omnibus bill that amends the Maritime Transport Act. It is important in my part of the world, because I represent the very fine electorate of Coromandel. It was on some beaches in the Coromandel electorate where oil, nurdles\u2014the little plastic things\u2014and noodles as well, timber, milk powder, and other assorted flotsam and jetsam, of course, washed up from the Rena. I do not think any of us would deny for one minute that the Rena incident was anything other than a huge tragedy and an environmental blot, but ours was a Government that acted, I think, quickly, responsibly, and with great efficiency. I want to take this opportunity at the introduction of this Marine Legislation Bill to thank the citizens of Coromandel\u2014the people, the volunteers, the services, the providers, and the contractors\u2014who assisted so nobly in the clean-up work. They did it with great enthusiasm not only because there was an immediate risk but also because they have a long-term, heartfelt interest and passion in their local environment and their local area. So this bill actually goes a long way to ensuring that environmental matters are taken care of\u2014and that provision on bunker oil is, in my view, extremely important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EBut I remember it well, because at that stage when the Rena did go aground, I was but a mere, hard-working candidate. I can remember going down on to the beach at Waih\u012B at one point and finding there people who had just met with a fellow who had come down from Auckland in his shiny shoes for a few minutes and a photo opportunity. His name was Phil Goff. He was \u201CShiny Shoe\u201D Phil\u2014\u201CShiny Shoe\u201D Phil\u2014and at that point he was, of course, leader of the Labour Party and Leader of the Opposition. What a lot happens in 12 months\u2014what a lot happens in 12 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI would just like to go through for a minute or two and review a couple of the speeches that we have heard tonight. Of course, the Hon Maurice Williamson introduced the legislation to the House on behalf of the Minister of Transport, Gerry Brownlee. He gave, I thought, an excellent introduction. He set out all the relevant points about the bill, and the fact it was an omnibus bill, and then we had a very good, and I thought, quite well-prepared and well-considered presentation from Phil Twyford. So I would like to compliment Phil on that presentation, which I thought was a very useful contribution. David Bennett, of course, made his almost always succinct, topical, and very presentable presentation. David Bennett is, of course, the chairman of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, and he will be guiding this bill through the select committee process. I am looking forward to taking my position on that select committee and being very much part of that team. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson made what could be described only as yet another leadership bid speech. It was powerful. It was compelling. It was probably the best speech that an aspiring Labour Party leader has made, certainly today, but probably also in the most recent weeks. We will see more of Grant Robertson\u2019s leadership speeches, I am sure. And then we had Darren Hughes. Darren Hughes gave a speech and it was the first time I have been aware\u2014[Interruption] sorry, Gareth\u2014Gareth. It was the other\u2014he is gone, is he not? He is the one who has gone. It was Gareth. He is the one. Probably what got me interested in that was that that is the first speech I have heard given by that member where fracking was not mentioned. That would have to be a first from that member in this House. Then we heard Jami-Lee Ross give a very, very good presentation. He made excellent points. I am surprised that members opposite have difficulty remembering the member for Botany\u2019s name, because his is a very, very good name, and he is doing a very good job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EBut the prize tonight for the most bizarre speech was, of course, Brendan Horan\u2019s speech. It was a very, very bizarre contribution. Brendan Horan is rapidly developing a reputation in this House for being the Forrest Gump of New Zealand politics\u2014the fellow who is always there when action and great deeds and moments of history are there. He is always there to collect up spots of oil, to take photos on his iPad, and to show them, or attempt to demonstrate them, to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EWhat about the bill? Well, the bill amends the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act, and it will, of course, make provisions that are far stronger than we have seen in the past. It is a timely bill. It is a bill that is, I think, well endorsed by all sides of the House. In particular, it is a bill that seeks to substantially increase the amount of compensation payable for incidents like the Rena, and that, I think, is a very good thing. So it is with great pleasure that I endorse and commend this bill to the House. I am looking forward to participating in the select committee proceedings under the very capable chairmanship of David Bennett, to hearing submissions on it, and to bringing it back into the House once it has passed the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9121542f5e24ecdb82391e12ed20ff9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9121542f5e24ecdb82391e12ed20ff9\u0022\u003EBRENDAN HORAN (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I thought he was supposed to be speaking\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00223e1cfc596a9f41a1a3f84dc8c0b9125d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e1cfc596a9f41a1a3f84dc8c0b9125d\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I am on my feet. That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a39b5f92d3a4436295937ebf81539741\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t yell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acf169cc6e724c6ab67451bd03646e18\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I need to make myself heard. If members do not sit immediately, they are at dire risk of getting some further action against them. The next call, I think, is a split call, is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002202c1421994fc4b47bd14f19befb097de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202c1421994fc4b47bd14f19befb097de\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I did not want to interrupt either of the following speakers. I seek leave to table the sheet from the website of the International Maritime Organization showing that the International Convention on Civil Liability for Bunker Oil Pollution Damage came into force on 21 November 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022f859da024eb242bfbe029fe7cf0fdde4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f859da024eb242bfbe029fe7cf0fdde4\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there anyone opposed to that course of action? There is none. It shall be tabled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac66e4aefd7f41d49e41b07204f9a81c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac66e4aefd7f41d49e41b07204f9a81c\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a split call? [Interruption] Split call\u2014a 5-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee399764317a46b399a47716bd08a57d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee399764317a46b399a47716bd08a57d\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call on this bill, the Marine Legislation Bill, which is somewhat belated. I am looking forward to its consideration in the select committee because, as some of my colleagues have pointed out, there is an awful lot more to this bill than just the issue of the belated implementation of the conventions that would have made such a difference had they been in place during the Rena disaster. I respect my colleagues on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, and I want to point out that it is now chaired by David Bennett, but I have been in Parliament since 2005 and I have been on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee all of that time. So I have very clear memories of what we did in 2008, before the last election, around these particular conventions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI have in front of me the recommendation from the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee around the International Convention on Civil Liability for Bunker Oil Pollution Damage\u2014the bunker convention\u2014and also the Convention on Limitation of Liability for Maritime Claims 1976. There was a majority recommendation to the House that these conventions be taken note of and preparation be made for their implementation, but what is even more interesting, when you go back to that time, is who was on the select committee. Who was on the select committee? Well, David Bennett, the member who spoke before dinner and said \u201COh! The Labour Government should have done something about it in the last 4 years.\u201D He was on the select committee. But it gets even better. It gets better than that, because the Hon Maurice Williamson was the deputy chairperson of that committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221b5e51a824f4b87a42668c9768dcd00\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: He introduced the bill!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022730b1c9e7ec74cbe8c94c26b63fe1e74\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: He introduced the bill tonight\u2014he introduced the bill! He was the deputy chairperson, and here he is trying to defend his Government\u2019s abysmal record. Then, if we have a look at who else was on there, there was Kate Wilkinson. What is she now? She is the Minister of Conservation. How interesting. How embarrassing that must be for those members. My speculation is that they became so overexcited about the idea of being Ministers when the National Party became the Government in 2008 that they forgot all about the work, the important work, that had been done on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee\u2014and will continue to be done\u2014and they forgot to brief the incoming Minister, Steven Joyce, who was then the Minister of Transport. Of course, we also know that the ministry briefed him when he was the incoming Minister and said that it was preparing to introduce legislation to update the Maritime Transport Act. Well, it has taken an election in 2008 and another election for this legislation to hit the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242cd0f4d27b34ce28850ea78e410c9a6\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: They should be embarrassed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295ffe635873f43459a7aa7fecf7b8720\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: They should be embarrassed by that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI just want to make a couple of other comments. I know there are other really important things that we have to talk about tonight, so I do not want to take up too much time. But I did want to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8f06c532ac446a28c0360189b8ca075\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: Sit down then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad1faa3f559241038294021d81a13389\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON: Yes\u003C/span\u003E, thank you, Maggie Barry, as polite as always\u2014polite as always. Really constructive, you know\u2014a really constructive member of the House. We really enjoy your contributions, thank you very much\u2014thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b40fc5b375844385bccd6a34cb57c547\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t be sarcastic, Darien.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8925bc332f1422ca2f317e185ea0962\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, am I being sarcastic? I thought being sarcastic was that member\u2019s forte, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E However, I did want to observe that there are other things in this bill that will be very important for us to consider. There are issues around port safety that are included in this bill. I will be very interested to hear the submissions from various people about port safety, because we do have an issue about port safety in New Zealand, with a very, very unregulated port system and coastline. I do think, actually, that while the Government was so busy including all sorts of references to the Local Government Act 1974, it could have included a very, very important one that would have incorporated my bill, which would ensure that there was transparency and that there was accountability for ports companies when it comes to the Official Information Act. It has not done that, of course, and we all know that part of the problem with the Rena is that we have an unregulated coastline and that the Government ditched the very successful programme of the Labour Government around Sea Change and moving towards coastal shipping as part of an integrated transport strategy. This will be a very, very interesting select committee, but I do hope that at the end of it the members take more notice than they did of the last consideration we had on this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u00225ec44e3faf53436facf19aa5f6e169bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ec44e3faf53436facf19aa5f6e169bf\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table a document from the International Maritime Organization showing the bunker oil convention was adopted on 23 March 2001.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022e147579d4cb341f5b6937ba8065859c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e147579d4cb341f5b6937ba8065859c3\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there anyone opposed to that course of action? There is none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca3d6552149a4f04912dfa82d316fcec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca3d6552149a4f04912dfa82d316fcec\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Are you seeking a call? Denise Roche. [Interruption] Order! The member should proceed. [Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022cef402d431994e0f8f81916c733e09cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cef402d431994e0f8f81916c733e09cb\u0022\u003EDENISE ROCHE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a short call for the Greens. As you have heard from my colleague Gareth Hughes, we will be supporting the Marine Legislation Bill, because we believe it does start to address some of the weaknesses in our legislation around protecting our waters from the marine disasters that we saw so clearly with the grounding of the Rena. It was an entirely predictable accident, and I think others have mentioned that already, but the deregulation of the 1990s, which has carried on through until today actually, has resulted in an enormous number of rust buckets\u2014ships that are sailing under flags of convenience with foreign crews that are plying their trade around our coasts and in our ports\u2014which are adding to the risks that we have. So it is good to see this Government wanting to introduce some regulation at last. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EIt is really good to see the inclusion of the International Maritime Organization conventions in this bill, although we note that the ones around oil spills and liability for shipowners still do not make them liable for paying the entire cost of clean-ups. We support this bill\u2019s intention to amend the Maritime Transport Act to enable better local regulation by local authorities relating to local port and harbour safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThere are a few things that I am hoping will come through in the select committee\u2014and I am on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, as well. There are a couple of gaps. One is that this bill, and the exclusive economic zone legislation as well, does not address the issue of emissions of particulates and carbon dioxide emissions from the container ships and cruise ships that are berthing in our cities\u2019 harbours. But there is a convention that we might want to sign up to\u2014that is, the International Convention for the Prevention of Pollution from Ships. We have got close to it with one of the conventions that is in this bill, but we are not quite there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EIt would make sense to adopt some of the regulations that are international best practice now, because the Auckland Council is already saying that there are huge peaks in carbon dioxide emissions from the dirty fuel that is used by container ships and cruise ships while they are berthing in Auckland. The Rugby World Cup last year was a great success for our country, but during that time the dangerous emissions that came from dirty fuel from the cruise ships that were berthed there were quite beyond what is normal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EWe would also like to see this bill take into account some of the other international regulations around speed. Generally, with the beefing up of the local authorities\u2019 ability to set some safety and environmental regulations in their own ports, there are still some issues around their ability to set the speed of the container ships in their harbours. We have got that situation in the Hauraki Gulf, where I live. There is a population of Bryde\u2019s whales. There are only 250 of them in New Zealand. They are very rare. There are 40 to 50 of them that live in the Hauraki Gulf and most of them are living and feeding and resting around the shipping lanes. The harbour master has set the speed limit for the area that he controls at 12 knots. However, the ability of a Bryde\u2019s whale to survive ship strike at 12 knots is pretty limited. There is a much better prospect for them surviving if the speed is under 12 knots, and it is an even better situation for their survival if it is under 10 knots. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThe Environmental Defence Society has actually worked alongside the Hauraki Gulf Forum and the Department of Conservation to look at ways that we could be asking the Minister of Transport to start to have some regulations around speed. I would suggest that since this bill takes into account the fact of driving those great, big container ships under the influence of alcohol, we should be looking at the speeds that those things are going at, because, as we know from the Rena disaster, the faster you go, the bigger the mess. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u00220b619dda750c4b919d0f82bdc470ce71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b619dda750c4b919d0f82bdc470ce71\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to stand here and talk to the Marine Legislation Bill. I am going to be brief, so shall we just dive right in? The other side has carped on about this bill, but I am very pleased to stand here in unambiguous support of it. The Opposition has suggested that there is something fishy about this bill, but I would like to assure the House that I am giving it my seal of approval. They have tried to distract us with talk of the Rena, about blood-alcohol levels and how they relate to driving, and so forth. We have even had attempted distractions around the date of the bunker oil convention, which we now know definitively was ratified in 2001. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut, you see, Opposition members have gone on and on just for the halibut and if they are going to object, they should at least have a porpoise. Of course, they just sat around and did nothing and that has been one of the themes coming from us tonight\u2014that the Labour Party in particular sat around for 9 years and did nothing. You might say that they had no net effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWe need to get this bill through the House, because this National Government will not leave the environment and the economy floundering. We have had a whale of a time\u2014a whale of a time\u2014listening to their arguments, but they are rather shallow, if you get my drift\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222891003abee347848dc2a840ac084582\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member is confused between the adoption and ratification of a convention\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229706f0eac7dc4e79aedae7853b36b628\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is not a point of order; that is a debating point. We do not use points of order to enter into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3b5ec24a0014163b8ed5221e9937278\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, absolutely fishy, fishy. It is semantics, really\u2014no good puns on that. All puns aside, this bill is a serious matter. I think we need to acknowledge and thank Minister Brownlee for sponsoring this bill, Minister Williamson for moving the first reading, and, of course, I add my voice to the chorus of support for the chair of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, David Bennett. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI am deeply committed to legislation that is clear and concise, and my colleagues have clearly outlined the elements of this bill, so I am not going to continue to go into it. I do want to acknowledge, of course, that this bill is continuing to modernise transport law. We have had similar changes in the areas of civil aviation and, of course, in land transport later. This should hold us, I believe, in good stead until we deal with space transportation in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWe are a world leader. New Zealand is a world leader when it comes to health and safety. This is also important in terms of New Zealand. This is an economy built around shipping. Needless to say we all came to this country by ship, and shipping is in our blood. I am sure that every member of this House will agree that the protection of our environment and our economy is a major concern for all New Zealanders, and I am looking forward to seeing this bill supported by all sides. This bill should not be the one that got away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002276ffc55fc0234e49aedd3557dab47c5b\u0022\u003ELand Transport Management Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226871a7ded716431ab06dddee7ea1a4f8\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022a329dfabbf4b4871bcfeab3535d4bb9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a329dfabbf4b4871bcfeab3535d4bb9f\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Land Transport Management Amendment Bill be now read a first time. It is my intention to nominate the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee to consider the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThis bill will amend the Land Transport Management Act 2003. The Act provides the planning and funding framework that channels around $3 billion of central government funding each year into road construction and maintenance, and public transport. The bill is part of the Government\u2019s ongoing efforts to cut unnecessary red tape and create a better, more effective legislative framework for transport. The bill will lead to streamlined decision-making and fewer prescriptive planning processes for those in the transport sector. It will allow councils greater flexibility to plan for the needs of their region, and it will ensure that both central government and local government get better value for money from their investments in public transport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe bill has three main components. First, it will remedy some problems with the planning and funding framework for the Land Transport Management Act 2003. That framework imposes processes that are duplicative, repetitive, and prescriptive, which leads to uncertainty, excessive paperwork, and unnecessary compliance costs. The bill will make the Act easier to use and understand by focusing its purpose and decision-making criteria on achieving an effective and safe land transport system and replacing the regional land transport strategy and the regional land transport programme with a single regional land transport plan. It merges the national land transport strategy and the Government policy statement on land transport funding into a single Government policy statement on land transport. It also removes the obligation on regional transport committees to include representatives of sector interests, instead leaving it to elected representatives to decide whom they need to hear from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe bill will also amend the Act\u2019s funding and planning provisions by enabling future projects to be funded by borrowing, where there is a good case to do so and the Minister of Transport and Minister of Finance agree. It is worth noting that in the last year more than 5.5 million journeys have been taken on the Northern Gateway\u2014a toll road funded by debt through the previous Government. By repealing the regional fuel tax provisions we acknowledge that this form of taxation needs to go, because its costs would end up being spread across all regions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe second significant area of change is the Act\u2019s tolling provisions. The bill will replace duplicative statutory tests applying to the approval of toll road schemes with a single, high-level test requiring them to be efficient and effective. It will also rely on the Privacy Act, rather than on an anonymous method of payment, to safeguard privacy. It will reduce potential barriers to public-private partnerships in toll road building and management by removing the requirement for special concession agreements. The final change in this area is to enable the existing toll road in Tauranga\u2014Route K\u2014to be brought under the toll road regime that applies to other toll roads in the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EFinally, this bill establishes in legislation a new policy framework for planning and contracting public transport, known as the Public Transport Operating Model. This follows a review of the Public Transport Management Act 2008 that found there was little incentive for operators to invest in public transport services or for them to come up with innovative ways for improving services. The legislation will require all public transport services in a region to be segmented into units and provided under exclusive contract to the regional council. Regional councils will be required to identify in their regional public transport plans the units, the policies on units, and the other public transport services the region intends to financially assist. Services that are not part of a region\u2019s core public transport network will be exempt from operating under contract, and will be identified on an exempt-services register held by the relevant regional council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThis bill will repeal the Public Transport Management Act 2008 and carry over relevant provisions into the Land Transport Management Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIn closing, may I say that Parliament, in passing this bill, will ensure that New Zealand has a durable piece of legislation that promotes an effective, efficient, and safe land transport system. It also recognises that New Zealanders want such a system. Thank you. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022e324470527d54f9598ff716b320edebb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e324470527d54f9598ff716b320edebb\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E The Land Transport Management Amendment Bill is a bad bill. National has corrupted the decision-making and resource-allocation process for building new State highways. It is spending $1 billion a year on seven hand-picked motorway projects. It has politicised the whole business of building State highways in this country. Secondly, by pouring so much money into these white elephant motorway projects it is locking this country into a high-carbon, fossil-fuelled dependent transport future. In the process it is neglecting public transport, and it is neglecting the maintenance of our State highways and our local roads. It is doing this country a disservice. Those two qualities\u2014the politicisation and corruption of our decision making and resource allocation for building State highways, and its obsession with roads at the expense of every other part of our system\u2014are the two qualities that define this wasteful and mismanaged transport policy under this National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThis bill reflects that policy, and what it does is it sets in concrete the wasteful and mismanaged approach that National has taken to transport. It sets up a gerrymandered, decision-making process for new transport projects. It puts into concrete its obsession with roads at the expense of everything else, and it centralises more and more decision-making power in Cabinet, away from communities and away from the Public Service. How does it do this? For a start, it gets rid of the existing purpose statement in the Land Transport Management Act. Currently, the Land Transport Management Act\u2019s purpose, in section 3(1), is \u201Cto contribute to the aim of achieving an affordable, safe, responsive, and sustainable land transport system.\u201D Well, under this bill that is gone\u2014it is gone. Let us apply the \u201CHoliday Highway\u201D test to this provision in this bill. Is the \u201CHoliday Highway\u201D affordable\u2014$1.7 billion for a duplicate route that, at best, will slice 5 to 10 minutes off the journey between Auckland and Wellsford? Is it safe? No, because a $400 million job would actually fix the accident black spots much more cheaply and much faster. Is it responsive? No, it is not responsive to our country\u2019s transport needs. Is it a sustainable transport solution? No, it certainly is not. It is an overpriced, gold-plated, duplicate motorway route.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EOK, what else does it do? There are five transport objectives that also appear widely in the Land Transport Management Act. They are set out in section 14(a)(ii): \u201C(A) assisting economic development: (B) assisting safety and personal security: (C) improving access and mobility: (D) protecting and promoting public health: (E) ensuring economic sustainability;\u201D. They are five criteria that should be the guiding principles of our transport system. Under this bill they are gone; they are gone by lunchtime. Let us apply the \u201CHoliday Highway\u201D test again. Does the \u201CHoliday Highway\u201D assist economic development? The Minister of Transport likes to say that it is going to solve all the economic problems of Northland. For $1.7 billion you could buy a lot of high-quality economic development in Northland. Would the \u201CHoliday Highway\u201D assist safety and personal security? No, we have already talked about the fact that the Operation Lifesaver alternative for $400 million would solve the safety problems on that road. Does it protect and promote public health? No. Is it a model of economic sustainability? No, it is the opposite. If the Act was used properly, these principles, these criteria would mean that projects that meet those criteria would be prioritised. But this Government\u2019s approach is to make the land transport management legislation less sustainable, less economically viable, and less concerned with sustainability and with public health. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe project level decision-making criteria under this bill\u2014the criteria that we have been discussing\u2014are swept away, and they are replaced with three criteria that this Government is using to drive its agenda of the roads of national significance. What are those criteria? First, to give effect to the Government policy statement\u2014all right? So if Gerry Brownlee says: \u201CYes, we\u2019re going to build the roads of national significance\u201D, he has a tick in the first box. What is the second criterion? Effectiveness. Well, what is the definition of effectiveness? It is whether it will deliver on the strategic fit. So the second criterion is whether it will deliver what Gerry Brownlee wants! OK, two ticks in the first two boxes. The third criterion is efficiency, or the benefit-cost ratio. That Minister does not even believe in the benefit-cost ratio, because the other day in this House he gave an entire speech to the House saying: \u201CActually, don\u2019t pay too much attention to the benefit-cost ratio, because it is not very important.\u201D So the three criteria are\u2014first, what is the Government\u2019s policy statement? Let us build the roads of national significance. What is the second criterion? How good the project is at delivering on the Government\u2019s policy. What is the third criterion? The benefit-cost ratio. The Minister does not even believe in it. So the P\u016Bhoi to Wellsford \u201CHoliday Highway\u201D rates on the first two criteria very poorly, and on the third criterion it is not even very good either, yet it can still be funded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThis is how Gerry Brownlee and Steven Joyce have totally gerrymandered the decision-making process for how they spend $1 billion a year of our taxes on white elephant motorway projects. That is what this bill is about. It enshrines a circular and self-serving politicised decision-making model for how we spend billions of dollars of taxpayers\u2019 money. Any pretence of rationality in the decision-making process has been dispensed with. Any expectation that our transport system will be integrated and multimodal has been done away with, because under this bill the references to rail and coastal shipping are being deleted from the purpose statement of the Land Transport Management Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWe have two other big objections to this bill. One is that it takes power away from local communities. Does that surprise anybody? This is the Government that killed democracy in Canterbury and it does not give a damn about the democratic rights of communities. Look at the local government legislation that is before the House at the moment. It is all about taking power away from the elected representatives and local communities. So it should not surprise us that in this bill the Government abolished the mechanism that would allow communities to use a regional fuel tax that was introduced by the last Labour Government to ensure that communities at least had the potential to raise money in their own communities and to exercise some autonomy about their transport priorities. Even though the current legislation keeps power in the hands of the Minister, that is not enough for him. That Government wants to abolish altogether the right and the opportunity to institute a regional fuel tax. That provision is all about giving the two-fingered salute to Auckland, because that Minister has not only already said it cannot have a regional fuel tax to fund its transport agenda but also already ruled out network charging\u2014congestion charging. The Government does not want Auckland or any other community to have any autonomy in their transport priorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe bill also reduces the obligation to consult communities on regional transport plans, but that is academic because under this Government there is no money available to fund local transport projects anyway, because he has spent it all on the roads of national significance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022627a2193d6e7487781168f9a058377bc\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s utter rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6508391d22d46dca27b0b28000e7046\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: It is virtually impossible to fund a new State highway project in this country because there is no money left in the kitty. The third objection that we have to this bill is that it allows the New Zealand Transport Agency not just to borrow for cash-flow smoothing, as it can already do, but to borrow to increase the size of the transport budget. It makes toll roads easier to implement and it also makes it easier to use public-private partnerships for big transport infrastructure projects. Although we on this side of the House are sceptical about whether public-private partnerships can even deliver value for transport infrastructure projects, we are not in principle opposed to any of those three mechanisms. But we are opposed to a transport policy that blows the budget on gold-plated, low-value projects, and then comes back asking to use the credit card. This is a bad bill. It is entirely consistent with this Government\u2019s wasteful and mismanaged transport policy, and Labour will not be supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e58cdcab1a38452b953f8c91a3c8c5d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e58cdcab1a38452b953f8c91a3c8c5d5\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E First, before I talk too much about the Land Transport Management Amendment Bill, I just want to say that a lot of the information that that last member, Phil Twyford, said was simply incorrect. There has been an increase in maintenance funding, and many of our transport networks are doing well because of the investment this Government has made into transport. I would like to commend our Minister of Transport for the hard work that he is doing, following on from the good work the Hon Steven Joyce did in this area in setting up a very strong network for New Zealanders in transport going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI want to take just one example, and we can use this example to look at the arguments put forward by the Opposition here. Let us have a look at the Waikato Expressway. The Waikato Expressway is the best thing that has happened to the most productive region in New Zealand, and that is something that this Government should be very proud of. It took 30 years\u2014a generation of advocacy\u2014to get that road. This Government is building it, and we are building it on time and within budget, and that it good for the people of the Waikato. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI want to see those Opposition parties come to Hamilton and say what they say in this House to the good people of Hamilton, because we know what this road means. I will tell you what this road means. What is the biggest asset that Hamilton has? The biggest asset is our proximity to Auckland. That is our biggest asset. What does this road do? It makes us closer to Auckland. It links us to the fastest-growing city in New Zealand. That is what it does. What else does that mean? That means that Hamilton can be a hub for services in the north half of the North Island. You see the investment in the hospital, you see broadband, you see the work at the university. All those things are leading to jobs and they are leading to a future for the people of Hamilton, and they are dependent on that road. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThat road is crucial for the growth of our city going forward. We will fight in this House and we will fight in election campaigns, and we have fought in election campaigns and beaten the Labour Party in Hamilton on that issue. The Labour Party has come to Hamilton and said: \u201CNo, we\u2019ll give you a train to Auckland instead of an expressway.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b7deee043ba4e3f9cf1bcca7e1a8884\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0398a5c82914a7bb1743fe77dc3b76b\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: A train to Auckland. An expressway worth $2.4 billion, or a train worth $2 million\u2014go figure what the people of Hamilton decided to choose. They want the expressway because they know what it means. We hear the Labour Party, and you will get it from the Greens next, saying that there is this utopia of public transport that will solve all our issues around transport: \u201CDon\u2019t worry about the costs of it; we do not need to work out the costs around public transport. We don\u2019t need to work out what the subsidies actually will be around public transport, because we say it is public transport. It works, it\u2019s cheaper, it\u2019s greener, it\u2019s better.\u201D That is rubbish, and we look forward to hearing that from the Green and Labour Party members as we go through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI will tell you about the train to Auckland\u2014the train to Auckland that the Labour Party wanted and the Greens would love. They put it on during the Rugby World Cup, and guess how many people went on that train at a time when it had an event\u2014you know, people were travelling from Auckland to the rugby in Hamilton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a879c942c03141da9103887b770642b1\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3e827465adc43e29b2bd70d41bb6fe4\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Nine people! Nine people went on a train\u2014nine people. The better part of this is that this train is going to have a subsidy of $15,000 per commuter per year. So 90 people go on this train, apparently\u2014that was about all it could carry\u2014and it would have a $15,000 subsidy for each of those people. New Zealanders would be paying $15,000 for 90 people\u2019s travel plans for the year. That is a great deal! It is a great deal! That is the Labour Party. That is the Green Party. That is the reality of public transport. When you put it on, how many people went on it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba774a8649a14c72bd0a817e68eea4e9\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227caeb2af13e9432bbb29e88f0e4570a2\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Nine\u2014nine people went on it. That is the reality of public transport. That is the reality of what the Greens and the Labour Party will talk about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EBut let us have a look at what Hamiltonians actually want. They want growth, they want jobs, they want a future, and they want direction, and what are we giving them? The road to give them that. They are getting the link to Auckland, and they are getting the link to their economic prosperity. The Labour Party is very quiet now, because it cannot win a seat in Hamilton and it knows it cannot. The reason it cannot is that we are delivering for that city when the Labour Party did not and never will. If you do not win Hamilton, you do not win Government. That is how simple it is in politics. We are delivering for that city, as we are throughout New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill, and I implore anybody who has any problem with that to come to Hamilton and see the reality of what this bill means. For the productive heartland of New Zealand, the future economic base of this country, you need to invest in infrastructure, this Parliament needs to invest in infrastructure\u2014and this Government has invested in infrastructure. It is delivering, and you can see the results. So come to Hamilton. We welcome you there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022d24ee9c3568f41c892b8f61a6a7ad6e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d24ee9c3568f41c892b8f61a6a7ad6e5\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E This piece of legislation, the Land Transport Management Amendment Bill, is typical of a Government that is either ignorant of, or deliberately blind to, the long-term consequences of the decisions it makes today. This piece of legislation does nothing to support good-quality transport infrastructure in New Zealand. Normally with the National Party what we say is that it narrows its view simply to a thin economic analysis of anything\u2014anything the National Party does. It overrides the social implications. It overrides the environmental implications. But in this legislation it has narrowed things so far that there is not even economic criteria any more in its decision making around transport infrastructure. The only criterion is whether these projects fit National Party policy. That is the only criterion that the New Zealand Transport Agency will have to consider when it is deciding whether it should be building transport infrastructure. But that is wrong, because not only do we need economically sensible and viable infrastructure but we need our infrastructure to be socially viable and environmentally viable as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI want to go through the criteria that are currently in the Act and that this National Government is going to get rid of, and consider what the impact will be on our nation. The first criterion is to give effect to the Government policy statement. That one gets to stay, and, as my colleague Phil Twyford pointed out, the only thing that that means is \u201CDoes it fit the Government\u2019s policy?\u201D. Whether the Government\u2019s policy makes any sense at all on economic, social, or environmental criteria, does it fit the Government\u2019s policy? Tick\u2014that one fits. Is it affordable? That is a question the National Party should always be asking. Is it affordable? Well, we have already seen what this Government\u2019s view is on transport infrastructure. It does not matter whether it is affordable. As long as it is a road, then build it. Build the darn thing, whether we can afford it or not. Its view is \u201CGold plate it, build it with eight lanes or 20 lanes, who cares! As long as it is a road, we will build it if we are in the National Party.\u201D Is it integrated? Well, it does not matter any more whether the transport infrastructure is integrated, because there will be only one form of transport infrastructure, and that is the roads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIs it safe? We have already seen what this National Party thinks of road safety and transport safety. Mr Bridges should be interested in this. He is, of course, the Associate Minister of Transport. I was in his electorate the other day, and I was talking to people about transport infrastructure and transport funding. Do you know what the council told me? It told me how its funding for road safety promotion had been cut, as 75 percent of its work had been funded by the New Zealand Transport Agency and now barely 50 percent of the work is being funded by the New Zealand Transport Agency. That has resulted in a net cut in road transport safety promotion activities by the council in Mr Bridges\u2019 region. Those activities are not undertaken just for fun. They are undertaken because there is an evidence base behind them that says that they improve road safety. This Government has no interest in road safety. It is cutting the funding already, and it is going to take the criterion that building transport infrastructure should be safe out of the legislation. Is it sustainable? Well, we know that the Government is not interested in sustainability. Does it assist economic development? Well, as my colleague Phil Twyford also pointed out, the Minister of Transport does not even care about benefit-cost ratios. He does not care about economic sustainability. He does not care about affordability. He cares just about building roads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EHere is the one that I am really upset about. It is the criterion that asks whether it protects and promotes public health. This may sound like a bit of a tangent, but there are four huge looming costs to our health system. They are confronting us right now and they are going to confront us even more in the future. One of them is cancer, the second is cardiovascular disease, the third is diabetes, and the fourth is respiratory disease. I am not sure whether there is much of a link between transport infrastructure and cancer, although I would not be surprised if there is one, but there certainly is a link between transport infrastructure and our ability to tackle cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and respiratory disease. We need more investment in active transport. Cycling and walking as genuine transport options need to be invested in. If we want people to change their behaviour, if we want people to move to rail or walking or cycling, then we have to build decent infrastructure that actually entices them and makes it useful and worthwhile for them to undertake those forms of transport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003ESo, in the interests of public health, in the interests of saving our health dollars and making sure that our health resources are available to the people who need them, we need to be building transport infrastructure that supports good health and supports people so that we can reduce the incidence of cardiovascular disease, and the same with diabetes. Respiratory disease is an issue that this Government completely overlooks in its health policy, but, again, the emissions from vehicles and the location of transport infrastructure is an important factor in the incidence of respiratory disease. If we could do more with that, again, we would be saving our nation a lot of money and we would be doing a lot of good. We would have healthier, more productive, better-off people in our country. But these are things that this Government is either ignorant of or deliberately blind to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003ESocial responsibility\u2014Mr Bennett talked about his pet transport project and his hatred of a rail link between Hamilton and Auckland. Well, my pet transport project at the moment is the rail link between Palmerston North and Wellington, which is very similar to the proposed link between Hamilton and Auckland. Many people use that link every day. For many people that is their sole way of getting to work and getting to the job that happens to be in Wellington when they live further up the line. For many of those people, the loss of the train will mean the loss of the ability to have that job. They will either have to move from where they are at the moment into Wellington, or they will have to give up that job and get a job somewhere else. Not everybody has a driver\u2019s licence. Some people\u2014and this might come as a bit of a shock to this Government\u2014have disabilities that prevent them from being able to drive a car; therefore, they need alternatives, choices, options in transport infrastructure. But this bill is not about options or choice in transport infrastructure. This is about the National Party\u2019s narrow focus on its roads of national significance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EFinally, there is environmental responsibility. Well, we know that public transport, particularly rail, uses significantly fewer resources than private car-based transport. So in the long-term environmental interests of this country, we need to be building better public transport infrastructure. But this Government simply is not interested. It is a conservative Government that is not interested in trying to lead change. It is not interested in trying to improve our nation. It is not interested in trying to improve our economy. It is not interested in trying to improve the nation\u2019s health. It is simply interested in supporting the status quo and continuing on with tired old ways of doing things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis is not a piece of legislation that will take New Zealand forward. It is a piece of legislation that simply reinforces the Government\u2019s desire to pursue a policy that makes no economic sense, no social sense, and no environmental sense. We need better thinking from our Government on transport infrastructure. We need a Government that is thinking about the future and is interested in building an integrated and responsive transport system, not one that is stuck in the old ways and the ideas of the past\u2014the think-big projects that the National Party is so well-renowned for. We do not support this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022693b4766da8b41b7a621d1d22a4c93cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022693b4766da8b41b7a621d1d22a4c93cd\u0022\u003EJULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the Green Party to speak on the Land Transport Management Amendment Bill. I do have quite a lot to say about this bill. I will start by saying that it is really a shame that the Government is missing this incredible opportunity that we have in transport policy to achieve the goal that it says it wants to achieve, which is economic productivity. We have the opportunity to build a consensus, really, across Parliament to achieve what all New Zealanders really want from their transport system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E But, unfortunately, as was well articulated by David Bennett, this Government is stuck in the past. It is stuck in 30 years ago. He said that he was so happy that finally the Waikato region was going to be getting the Waikato Expressway, a project that the region has been advocating for for 30 years\u201430. I think that speaks volumes about where the Government is placed in terms of its transport thinking. It is stuck in the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe Green Party will not be supporting this bill\u2014not because everything in the bill is bad; some things are, arguably, quite good. But when you take it in the context of the current evidence-free transport policy and priorities, the changes that this bill makes could allow some monumentally bad projects to go ahead. That is, firstly, because the bill allows for additional borrowing to pay for transport infrastructure. It allows for borrowing over and above covering cash flow. At a time when the Government is arguing that we need to sell strategic assets that are providing a healthy return, in order to supposedly pay down debt, the same Government is gearing up to borrow billions to pay for uneconomic motorways. It is really tragically ironic that it is going to be borrowing to pay for motorways that will not even deliver the economic development that it says it wants. The idea that the cost of infrastructure with long-lasting intergenerational benefits could be spread over the years through borrowing is not a terrible idea in and of itself. However, this Government is prioritising very bad State highway projects that simply do not make economic sense. They certainly will not substantially benefit future generations. So in this context, borrowing is extremely dangerous. It is going to saddle future generations with debt for projects that they will not even benefit from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe proposed legislation also opens the doors to public-private partnerships, and, really, this is just a back-door way of borrowing. It is definitely still borrowing, but it is keeping that debt off the Government books in the short term. I think that when we look overseas at examples of public-private partnerships, particularly in respect of transport infrastructure, what we find is that they are extremely damaging for the public sector and they are extremely costly for the taxpayer. We compiled research on Australian public-private partnership roading projects that should be highly relevant to the Government\u2019s plan to use public-private partnerships to fund some of its roads of so-called significance. Here is just one example: the CLEM7 Tunnel in Queensland. The initial forecast cost was $1.2 billion. The actual cost was $3 billion. The traffic forecast at opening was 60,000 vehicles. The actual traffic during a lower toll period\u2014this is the peak\u2014was 34,000 vehicles. That is about half of what was forecast. The forecast for 2012\u2014this year\u2014was 100,000 vehicles. And if you can believe it, the number of vehicles using this project has fallen even further to 28,000. That is about a quarter of what was forecast to use the project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIf you look at all of these Australian public-private partnership roading projects over the last few years, you will see that they are all, basically, debacles. If you look at the literature from Europe as well, you see consistently that there is an over-prediction of the benefits of roading projects through public-private partnerships and toll roads, in particular. The reason for this is actually really understandable. It is that the entire methodology that we have used in our transport planning for the past 50 years or more is actually biased towards cars. It overestimates the benefit of improvements that allow more vehicles to flow through an area, and it underestimates the cost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIf we look at the actual evidence, then what we can understand, in a way that really the National Party should be able to understand, is that there are a large number of market distortions in our transport network. That has led to an extremely unbalanced transport system, which, in the case of New Zealand, is very, very costly, and it is going to become even more costly as we face rising fuel prices. We have the opportunity to do things differently: to spend less money and to achieve the transport outcomes we want\u2014the efficiency and the effectiveness. We have the opportunity to reduce congestion\u2014spending less money and investing more in trains and buses. I am really sorry that David Bennett is not here, because I think that if he actually looked\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022715be93741d34ef0901dcb917e886ab4\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022688719616d5a45518bbea0517567f17c\u0022\u003EJULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me. Sorry, Mr Speaker. The previous speaker, David Bennett, mentioned that the reality of public transport was that people did not take it and it required huge subsidies. But I think he has not actually looked at the numbers, because in Auckland, for example, public transport patronage has been growing extremely fast, and patronage on the rail network, in particular, is almost 30 percent higher than what was modelled by Auckland Transport\u2019s model 2, which is the public transport four-stage model\u2019s demand for public transport and road projects. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EAt this point in time, when the Government is arguing that we need to reduce debt, at the same time it is taking the exact opposite approach to transport infrastructure. There could not be a more opportune time to actually reduce the amount of money that we are spending on transport infrastructure and make it smarter, make it more effective, and make it more targeted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThere were a few interesting observations in the board paper that went to the New Zealand Transport Agency about public-private partnerships, which are quite relevant to this bill, as this bill is going to allow public-private partnerships. Now we see that the New Zealand Transport Agency is actually already preparing a business case for public-private partnerships for certain roading projects. One of them was that Transmission Gully obviously is not a good option for a public-private partnership, even though the Government has been talking about it being an option. The reason it is not a good option for a public-private partnership is that it does not have a good business case. Every Government analysis of that motorway project has shown that there simply is not the demand to justify the tolls that would be needed to pay for the project. So what does that tell you? It tells you that, actually, the project is not economically viable. Going to the private sector is not going to make viable a project that is not economically viable. All it is going to do is take the risk and put it on to the public. Actually, we have seen that the model of public-private partnerships that the Government is actually investigating does exactly that. It is called the availability payment model, which means that tolls go to the Government, and the Government pays the private companies an annual payment for building and maintaining the road. This model puts all the risk of low patronage on the Government and on the taxpayer, which we have seen in Australia and in Europe, where, consistently, toll roads have less patronage and lower revenue than what was forecast in the business model. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EAll the Green Party is asking for, really, is some economic rationality and evidence to be applied to transport policy, in a way that, really, the Government should be quite open to. I would be quite happy to sit down with the Government and help it, because I know that I have more expertise in this area than it does. I am really interested in working with the Government, because I genuinely believe that Government members are going to live to see the day when everyone in New Zealand realises that these projects were a terrible waste of taxpayers\u2019 money. They are going to regret ever supporting them. These roads will be like the motorways in Greece, which are completely empty, cost billions of dollars, and did nothing\u2014nothing\u2014to create economic growth. That is very understandable, because once you have an existing road network, the benefits of replacing or duplicating a link diminish as time goes on. If you were putting a brand new link in where there was no road before, maybe there would be some economic benefits. But there are already roads between Auckland and Hamilton. There are already roads between P\u016Bhoi and Wellsford. The marginal cost of duplicating that road is enormous, and the benefit is so tiny, because it is only a few minutes saved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI would like to conclude by saying that the Green Party will not be supporting this bill, until such time as the Government can demonstrate that it is capable of an economically rational transport policy. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022561395f3437243b6852b1cb9d60891a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022561395f3437243b6852b1cb9d60891a2\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak on this bill, the Land Transport Management Amendment Bill. I think it is a bill that will go down very well in this House once it has been through the full select committee process, once all parities have had an opportunity to fully consider the exceptional benefits that can come from the bill, and once we have had an opportunity to go out there and consult with the public on the benefits of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E Approximately $3 billion annually from central government is spent on transport, and from local government approximately $1.5 billion. We need to ensure that we are getting the best value for money with our transport regime that is in place. We need to also ensure that we lower the compliance costs where we can, and this bill seeks to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EI want to pick up on a few comments about the roads of national significance, and particularly on one I heard from Julie Anne Genter just before. She was making some comments about Greece and about how we may run into a situation where we end up with motorways that are empty. I have to say that I realise she is a little newer to Auckland than I am, but I do not know any motorways in Auckland that are empty, except in the dead of the night. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EAucklanders, in particular, along with many, many New Zealanders around the country, are crying out for even greater investment in infrastructure\u2014transport infrastructure\u2014around the country. They are crying out for greater investment in roading infrastructure around this country. New Zealanders have endorsed our plan for the roads of national significance. They have welcomed the roads of national significance policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EAs David Bennett has spoken about, people in parts of the country have been waiting years for some of these projects to go ahead. Let us remember that 92 percent of freight in this country moves on roads. Let us remember that we want to build a stronger economy in this country. Let us remember the economic potential that these roads of national significance will help to open up. Let us remember the New Zealanders who rely on good quality infrastructure to operate their businesses, to get to work, and to get their families to and from engagements around their cities and around the country. New Zealanders are welcoming this policy, and we are proud to stand behind it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThe great panacea, the great project that the Opposition and some people in Auckland are proposing to solve all the transport problems in Auckland is the central business district rail loop. Let us remember that in 2041 the central business district rail loop will remove only 1,400 cars from the road out of 29,000 cars that will be travelling on the road. Let us remember that their great hope for transport change in Auckland would see transport benefits of only about $300 million to $400 million, based on an approximately $3 billion project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a90b7127d844f9c9067c24ed8f19891\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s your alternative, Jami? What\u2019s your alternative? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d1a445fba0845ae93a50a000fb2fba6\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS\u003C/span\u003E: It is the projects that we are spending money on, Mr Twyford, the projects that we are putting funding into. It is the $12 billion that this Government is investing in roads of national significance, the $3 billion that we spend on transport every year\u2014the $3 billion that is going into better quality infrastructure, something that the Labour Government underfunded, underspent on, and did not put a priority on, which New Zealanders are crying out for and are looking to this Government to continue. The roads of national significance policy is worthwhile continuing. It has been endorsed by the voters at election time, and they will be able to see it implemented further through the passage of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThere are other important provisions in this bill around changing the purpose, and getting a more effective, efficient, and safe transport system. By combining planning documents, we will see more efficiency gained. By giving the New Zealand Transport Agency the opportunity to borrow further if the opportunity arises for future projects to be looked at earlier than expected, and by simplifying the tolling process that organisations have to go through if they wish to consider a tolling project, the bill will enable more cost-effective tolling projects to be proceeded with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill. It deserves to be supported by Opposition members. If they do not support it tonight, they should at least look at it properly through the select committee process. If anyone will be ashamed at the end of this process, it will be those people if they do not support a good piece of legislation that allows greater investment in important transport infrastructure around the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022 data-id=\u00222fbd753f980149658e1b78234b6cea59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fbd753f980149658e1b78234b6cea59\u0022\u003EBRENDAN HORAN (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak on the Land Transport Management Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bd48536ee92462397ec1123b48a8f92\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not this bill!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b560ff90661040b2821ae4cee35b1717\u0022\u003EBRENDAN HORAN\u003C/span\u003E: I must say after listening to the honourable Mr David Bennett speaking\u2014do not worry, Mr Bridges, we will get to you. We will cross your bridge when we come to it. I will say that after listening to the honourable David Bennett I am sure that Vogel would be rolling in his grave to see the chairman of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee so blinkered, so blinded, so averse to common-sense transport infrastructure such as rail. It is very interesting, because the honourable David Bennett has obviously been taking note of the Prime Minister, \u201CMr Spray and Walk Away\u201D. He has certainly given a big spray to those KiwiRail workers who are losing their jobs, and to those people in Gisborne, the 10,800 people who signed that petition that the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee decided to just ignore. His comments really do cast serious doubts on the competency of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, and its ability to be fair and true and to deliver something other than party-based outcomes, because we all know that the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee is heavily weighted in the Government\u2019s favour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022375ca18b2590436a8744f5051223ea6a\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Oh well, that\u2019s why there are rotten sleepers!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6c97bd1c3554b0f9ce5bdacd0c99bfb\u0022\u003EBRENDAN HORAN\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, Mr Bridges, we will talk about rotting sleepers. I will talk to you about them later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003EBut let us talk about tolling, because this bill is intended to facilitate and, in fact, ease the facilitation of road tolling. We in New Zealand First have real concerns about expanding the role of toll roads. The notion of streamlining the process to introduce more toll roads, we see as being against the wider public interest. Imposing tolls upon key roads inhibits New Zealanders from travelling on them. We already know about all the people who are living in poverty, although that side of the House tends to turn a blind eye to that. Similarly, the more toll roads in New Zealand, the greater the impact\u2014and that is an adverse impact\u2014on domestic and international tourism. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003EThis Government needs to front up as to why it is relaxing mechanisms surrounding the introduction of toll roads. Could it possibly be for its Aussie mates in the Macquarie Group? [Interruption] I notice in the bill\u2014let us get around to Mr Simon Bridges. In the bill, we see Route K there. I was hoping to see in this bill that the Government would be taking over the debt from the Tauranga ratepayers. There was its opportunity to do something for the people of Tauranga, but, no, it is not in there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003ELet us talk about borrowing, because within this bill is a fundamental change allowing the New Zealand Transport Agency to borrow to build roads. This is a very significant change, and not one to be made lightly. What is missing is the justification for this profound change. Where is the evidence that this is necessary? Where is the cogent argument? Where is the compelling case for doing this? What is actually behind the move? Earlier tonight, the members on that side of the House criticised this side of the House for our attention to detail. We know that the devil is in the detail. Given the state of the economy and our level of debt, giving the New Zealand Transport Agency more borrowing powers needs to be fully explained and justified. It is quite simple. All borrowing powers need to be carefully considered. The Government needs to be quite clear. It needs to front up and tell us what is really going on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022998a61beaa5149269383933452979bfb\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Didn\u2019t you listen to Gerry\u2019s speech?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e66bdbea95a4b8cad7a2f47b510ff40\u0022\u003EBRENDAN HORAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I heard Gerry\u2019s speech, but I was wondering what happened to the $12 billion set aside for the roads of national significance. What has happened to the petrol taxes that we pay? What has happened to the exorbitant prices that New Zealanders are now forced to pay with road-user charges? What happened to the jobs? Less debt, more jobs\u2014was that not what the National Party campaigned on? Now it is pushing forward with a bill that allows greater borrowing for the New Zealand Transport Agency. So what are its priorities? The bottom line is this: as it stands, New Zealand First cannot rubber-stamp the New Zealand Transport Agency having additional borrowing powers without a full and proper explanation by this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003ELet us go on to public-private partnerships. This bill will reduce potential barriers to the use of public-private partnerships, and the public should be very worried at this development\u2014very worried indeed. Private business is there for a profit, and usually a handsome profit. Much-touted public-private partnerships have been one of the great ways, in fact, of hoodwinking the public. They have often proved to be a bonanza for private interests, but usually at the public expense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022380c53bee54f4165bbfb09b19583a569\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: What a string of clich\u00E9s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205f516dbc5324a35aeb9c974b71ed016\u0022\u003EBRENDAN HORAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what private business would want to get involved in a public-private partnership if there were not a great profit in it for them? But when it all goes bad, the taxpayer of New Zealand is left footing the bill. When things go wrong it is us, the taxpayers, who pay. We oppose the privatisation of New Zealand\u2019s roading network by stealth. The last thing we need or want is for New Zealanders to be paying some overseas corporation for the use of the roads here in our own country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003EThis bill does have a couple of merits, however. New Zealand First supports the Government\u2019s aim of reducing needless bureaucracy, which often impedes large-scale transport projects. However, New Zealand First cannot support this bill as it currently stands. New Zealand First will not stand for relaxing regulations around road tolls, nor will we idly stand by and allow this Government to implement further public-private partnerships at a greater cost to the taxpayer. Therefore, New Zealand First opposes this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3751c7dd94146e9a97a9e6057ba808e\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: No, don\u2019t sit down\u2014there\u2019s more. But wait, there\u2019s more!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229ff5cdff0a943dcaba6d5ac90bdfd99\u0022\u003EBRENDAN HORAN\u003C/span\u003E: There is more coming, Mr Bridges. You are going to have to wait for that one, but it is very soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u002273c023c0ab604250bb5aa2a9eeb769af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273c023c0ab604250bb5aa2a9eeb769af\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National):\u003C/span\u003E What a pleasure it is on this occasion to follow Brendan Horan. He has asked some questions. He nearly redeemed himself\u2014nearly redeemed himself\u2014by saying that there were two points that New Zealand First would support in the Land Transport Management Amendment Bill. He got one out, but could not bring himself to say the other. He could not bring himself to say the other, so I will have to canvass a few, just to see whether these are what he would have supported. We are not doing just roads; we have invested $4.6 billion in a 10-year KiwiRail Turnaround Plan\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb82ce889d5f4a5a93646c08479375ab\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223ba3f164fe541f6938e12eef98d643b\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014including $250 million\u2014$4.6 billion, billion with a \u201Cb\u201D\u2014over 2012-13. We have committed $1.6 billion to improve and electrify Auckland\u2019s rail system, and invested\u2014wait for it\u2014$500 million to upgrade Wellington\u2019s rail. We are already working well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EWhy, we are asked by Mr Horan, is National doing this? It is because National is committed to building a more competitive and productive economy, and we must get the infrastructure right. We are building a better transport system, which is vital in order to transform New Zealand\u2019s future and to create more jobs with higher incomes. We are committed to simplifying and to modernising New Zealand\u2019s transport system so that it is efficient, cost-effective, and fair for all users. I ask you, if this were an election year, would these be things that New Zealand First said it would espouse? Yes. Yes, they are in keeping with its policy. I cannot see where Mr Horan\u2019s objections are coming from. And the suggestion that somewhere behind it all there is a conspiracy does not quite ring true. It does not quite ring true. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003ELet us just reflect on how well we have done with our infrastructure. I think back to our forebears, our predecessors. I remember Mr Holyoake saying\u2014I am sure it shows what age I am, I suppose\u2014that we would have a road to within 5 miles of every primary producer. I used to go for a haircut 30 miles into Hokianga, on a metal road\u2014not much fun. We should enjoy what we have got in terms of good roading. New Zealand has done remarkably well. I believe, and I stand to be corrected, that in terms of mileage we have more sealed roads than Japan\u2014certainly more per head of population. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has done very, very well with its infrastructure. This bill will improve things even further. It seeks to deal with what is an important issue for all communities, ensuring that our transport system is efficient, cost-effective, and fair for all users. I remember Mr Anderton finding, to his horror, that there were insufficient roads in Gisborne to get the timber to the mill. We need\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4692cee87534b2caa515f5c53a28bf7\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s insufficient rail in Gisborne, thanks to the National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee74badaea5a41c3bff5eec596d9d643\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we have heard about rail. We heard a very, very lucid piece from the chairman of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, Mr David Bennett, who spoke\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dd575a80dd1415f9203047e85adcd15\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: I wouldn\u2019t call that lucid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d05f63bcf84a477aa36e6d5758f58a25\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it was lucid, actually. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ed2680ff22848949e89a1cef694f8de\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: I think you mean loose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8a77ba4dc0944909efa53b58a0e46ee\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no, it was lucid. He really got it together, and he gave us the figures. He told us what was happening. Rail has a way to go. Well, I believe in rail. The West Coast needs rail very much indeed, such as the Midland Line for taking the coal out. But it is a bit disturbing to find that it does not actually make much money on the job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d400c4de97614a4c9398477dcd5d1020\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Talk about the bill, Chris.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224550dc799f7b482092aa32f77ef0557b\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we will talk about the bill, and I am glad\u2014I am glad\u2014that there is such a demand to hear about it. The bill will require improvements to central government\u2019s planning and funding framework for land transport activity, as well as changes to streamline the assessment of toll road schemes and the creation of a new policy framework for building long-term partnerships between regional councils and public transport operators and the public-private partnership system, which the previous speaker had such a fear of. This bill handily covers those particular things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe bill shows this Government\u2019s commitment to getting the best value for dollar and to removing ridiculous duplication, which has been allowed to clog the arteries of public transport. I support this bill, and I want to leave room for other National speakers to be able to speak about it. So I will close by saying that I am supporting the bill because I believe it to be noble of intent, forward of thinking, and realistic in its goal seeking. Its goal is to ensure that the people of this nation get the best services. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5ba05006ee84ee5ace80a0b5f08260d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5ba05006ee84ee5ace80a0b5f08260d\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call on the Land Transport Management Amendment Bill. It is not the first one I have taken a call on in my time in Parliament. I think this is No. 2. There was the Public Transport Management Act as well, which the Labour Government implemented and which this bill actually repeals, as I understand it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d48b44352e549498a488ff5f6e85352\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: I think this is the worst one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022809bd281b152443a9a63f93fd635edb1\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am sure it is the worst one. I am going to talk about how good the other ones are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAs always, we had a fantastic speech from David Bennett. One of the things I really like about David Bennett\u2014you know, he has got a lot of flaws, but one of the things I do like about him is he does try to promote his own area. He does like to talk about the Hamilton expressway an awful lot\u2014an awful lot\u2014but I was really interested, because what he does not talk about is the problems with public transport in his own city. I was really interested to see a press release from the Waikato Regional Council today saying that passenger transport bus fares are going to rise by 5 percent for children and adults on the council\u2019s rural services, which include Te Awamutu, Cambridge, Huntly, Raglan, Paeroa, Morrinsville, and Taup\u014D. I know this goes into the areas of some other members. There are other National MPs who are electorate members\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b7eba4a062146a795e732a41c5c7e71\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: What does the member for Taup\u014D think of that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ada41a26ddb84467b57e8dd5365e719d\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, well, the member for Taup\u014D is involved in that. But, anyway, the reason I was saying this is that throughout New Zealand, public transport is operating in an extremely constrained funding environment, and as a region we are being asked to do more with less, because the Government has capped funding for the next 3 years and has told the council that it expects the amount of money recovered from fares to increase to 40 percent by 2017. So, you know, I would really like to hear from the National members, the electorate MPs for those areas. They should stand up and justify this bill on the basis that in their areas poor people who live in rural communities\u2014the rural communities that they say they represent\u2014are going to be having to pay more for public transport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does, of course, is repeal the Public Transport Management Act, which had a lot to do with public transport and a lot to do with making sure that we had better public transport through councils. As I said, I would like to rehearse the history of the Labour Government, because we had the first Land Transport Management Act, in 2003. That was the biggest change in land transport funding and management since the 1980s. Prior to that, the framework of land transport management and funding was incredibly flawed. There was no strategic direction. It did not allow an integrated approach to be taken to land transport because it focused on roading, and\u2014hello\u2014here we are back at the beginning again. What was happening before that Act was we had no long-term planning and the rules regarding the funding of public transport were constraining and inflexible. So that Act, along with the Public Transport Management Act and also an amendment to the Land Transport Management Act in 2008, made significant strides in our land transport systems, including public transport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EOne of the significant things about the Land Transport Management Act was hypothecation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f81de281ce364d07826c51582bdf1ae8\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Hypothecation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289e8563033fb4aadafd5b72e95c7fe9c\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Hypothecation\u2014that is right. That changed the way that fuel excise is used to provide more certainty for future investment. It was a Labour Government that brought about hypothecation. It augmented central government transport funding through regional fuel taxes, which allowed regions to fund more projects, which of course this bill does away with. We increased investment in public transport tenfold and funding for passenger transport services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIn case anyone forgets, it was Labour that initiated double tracking in Auckland, electrification, the extension of passenger transport to other parts of Auckland, the reopening of railway links, and the North Shore busway, which has been such a success. I know my colleague Phil Twyford is keen to see that success replicated in his electorate of Te Atat\u016B. Going down the western motorway it would be a wonderful thing, but I fear we may have to wait for a Labour Government for that to happen. But he will campaign. He will have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223873b9afafcf4f3e9d967b239d8a2bc9\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: Long time away, then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295734cbe5c1f41d3a219baee80d3840c\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is very nice of Maggie Barry, given that her\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0582bf9996449a9a1a9c9690b3442c2\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Maggie, you got one; we want one too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7d696e4e6304cbabfa74788027604de\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. That member\u2019s electorate has one, so why can west Auckland not have one? If this was not such an ungenerous Government, it would consider that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ESo this bill undoes much of that really good work that was done over several years under a Labour Government, under some fantastic transport Ministers, including the Hon Annette King and others. Instead, it is being framed as being about streamlining and increasing value for money, but all it does is open the door for borrowing for more State highways, tolling, and public-private partnerships. It is also about increasing central government control over the transport system and making sure that local people have almost no say. It is also about sharpening the focus on economic efficiency by removing social and environmental criteria. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAll you have to do is have a look at the difference in the purpose statement in this proposed bill. Under the previous bill, there were a number of things, and my colleagues have gone through them. Under the previous purpose statement the legislation had to give effect to the Government policy statement; it had to be affordable, integrated, safe, responsive, and sustainable; it had to assist economic development, safety and personal security, access, and mobility\u2014I have not heard the words \u201Cmobility\u201D and \u201Caccess\u201D mentioned at all tonight; it does not matter, does it\u2014it had to protect and promote public health, ensure economic sustainability, and it talked about social responsibility. Public transport is a public good, and transport and access to transport is also a public good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIn respect of environmental responsibility, I would have thought that in this time of 2012, even a National Government could bring itself to say the words \u201Cenvironmental responsibility\u201D. Instead, what we have is a purpose statement that is reduced to so-called streamlined project level decision-making criteria. Three things: give effect to the Government policy statement, be effective, and be efficient. What a disgrace!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238508804b5544652bb376e794c9f5a15\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: That just means: \u201CDoes Gerry want it?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223028c9d5e60448539a7808e92fc5eccc\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228301d5315afa4d788462781483abd4b8\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: It just means: does Gerry want it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cec4cd53621740d0acf990851dda415b\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, does Gerry want it? Well, that seems to be the only criterion that we have had for all of the roads of national significance. Of course, the Government has realised that those roads are far too expensive and it is going to have to borrow to pay for them. It just will not accept that some of the decisions it has made around those are just ridiculous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI suppose you could almost call this bill the \u201CGerry Brownlee - Steven Joyce Justification for Roads of National Significance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9846a845ab747c69138197d652251d8\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CGerry-mandering\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250d2c540b60b4a2681978f0f5e023932\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: A \u201CGerry-mandering Bill\u201D. It is a \u201CGerry-mandering Bill\u201D that is all about sort of post\u2014what is it? Post facto\u2014post\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022560de91491eb48f5b313b7d0cd6a86cb\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Ex post facto.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022772f7927764147ccb625ad4e8a929fcc\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: That is the one. It is a justification for a real disaster of a policy\u2014a disaster of a policy\u2014which is seeing gold-plated roads being built up and down the country. There is that smell of bitumen in the Minister\u2019s nostrils. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E What this bill is about doing is justifying the policy of roads of national significance, doing away with the very balanced approach that we had under the previous Land Transport Management Act and the Public Transport Management Act, doing away with a balanced approach to transport, and doing away with important things like reference to integrated transport, coastal shipping, and rail. The only thing that seems to matter to this Government is that everything has to go by road. It is so short-sighted\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f68ec650bed942999b0cbef6766782a0\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: So 1950s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3c0942fbb5443359769dec198e57567\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: So 1950s, that is right. It is so last century. It is so last century, as one of the Ministers said once, and I think that is a disgrace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI am part of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. I am looking forward to having a debate with David Bennett about why the people in his electorate are having to pay more for their buses and why he keeps justifying the roads of national significance, when the poor people in his area, the people in rural areas whom he says he represents, will not be able to afford to go on buses and will not be able to afford public transport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7a79284dec9465cac49c112b2e13c9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7a79284dec9465cac49c112b2e13c9e\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E In electorates like mine in the Coromandel we like roads. Unlike the Greens, we like roads because we need roads. Roads are what provide us with the wealth and the productivity efficiency that we need in our provincial and rural electorates around the countryside. The National Government is committed to making a brighter future for all New Zealanders and we do that partly by building a strong, bold, big, bright infrastructural network around the country that involves roads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI want to commend my colleague David Bennett, who happens to be chairman of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, which will shortly consider this very good bill, the Land Transport Management Amendment Bill, for his passionate advocacy on behalf of the Waikato Expressway. What a good local MP he is. What a good local MP he is, that David Bennett. He spoke so vigorously, so passionately, about the benefits that the Waikato Expressway will bring, unlike the Green member Julie Anne Genter, who seemed to want to create for us a nirvana of a Green-inspired vision of the world that sounded to me something akin to the Amish state of the South Seas. It was going to be an Amish society without the Bibles, however, but one where we were on horses and carts, with those red safety triangles on the back of the little buggies. That is what we would be driving around on, on our unsealed pathways around New Zealand, if Julie Anne Genter and the Greens have their way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo this is a wonderful piece of legislation, and the second good piece of legislation that has been introduced tonight under the name of Gerry Brownlee. It is about growing a better future, a better infrastructure, for New Zealand. I rise to support the bill. I commend this bill to the House, and I am looking forward to participating in the debate at the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2cbc95b3331497baf13ce1cb731dc8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2cbc95b3331497baf13ce1cb731dc8a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand the next call is a split call. I will ring the bell at 4 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002231fb5b505e674c69ad980fd4fa30748e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231fb5b505e674c69ad980fd4fa30748e\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise and speak on the Land Transport Management Amendment Bill, and to reiterate Labour\u2019s opposition to this piece of legislation, which will only ever take us backwards. If ever there was a concern about why the New Zealand Transport Agency should be given extra borrowing powers, one does not have to look too far back in history to understand why, because this was the Government agency that made a financial error in the last financial year of\u2014wait for it\u2014$182 million. It miscalculated $182 million and had to get additional Crown financing to cover that gap. That is the level of mistake the agency made, and this Government now wants to give it greater powers to borrow to cover its mistakes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe principal question for me, in this legislation, is how will this bill help the regions? How will this bill help the regions? Coming from working actively in a regional area, the region of Taranaki, home of the Ranfurly Shield and home of the brave, I can say that it is a region that has suffered hugely from this Government\u2019s transport policies, or lack of priorities in roading and in transport. It has had little support. There has been little support from this Government for regional roading. This bill represents a greater concentration of power, when the issue for regions at the moment is just how much input and how much power local authorities and their transport committees can actually have. This bill represents a greater concentration of power in the centre and in the roading agency, and that will not help a bit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ELet me talk about a couple of examples in Taranaki, which are issues that have been longstanding, and where the local committee and the local community have long expressed a need for priority and a need for funding. They are safety issues. One is the Normanby Overbridge in South Taranaki. They put up their submission to get it on the plan this year and it was knocked back. This is a bridge that is a death trap. It has killed a couple of young chaps already\u2014in fact, just recently. This is a community that is hanging out for roading improvements. It will not be that expensive. They have already attempted to divert local money into what is a State highway to fix the problem, but they cannot get it fixed and they cannot get the New Zealand Transport Agency on board to fix it. The most recent long-term plan that the New Zealand Transport Agency produced has not fixed the problem at all. Then there is the road north of New Plymouth, State Highway 3, which goes for about 100 kilometres. It has major problems with paving, there is no shoulder, there are issues about the bridge abutments and the uneven surface, and there has been no money at the centre for it. The region has tried to use regional funding to fix up bits of that road, but it simply is not enough. What will happen now, if this bill goes through as it is, is that we will just see an even greater concentration of power in the centre and less voice for the local community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ELet us have a look at one aspect of this bill: clause 61, which amends section 96. Under section 96 at the moment there is a quite explicit and clearly set out approach to be taken when the agency is considering the funding of roading. It requires the agency, in terms of its operating principles, to \u201Cexhibit a sense of social and environmental responsibility\u201D. That includes a host of things: that it avoids, to the extent reasonable, adverse effects on the environment; that it ensures, in relation to its functions and to the extent practicable, it consults with persons and organisations in the region; that it takes into account the views of the local community; and that it meets the requirements of consulting with local M\u0101ori. All of that goes in this bill\u2014all of that goes in this bill. If this bill does one thing that is bad, amongst everything else, it is that it guts the opportunity for local communities to have a say and an input into the priorities for their transport needs, and that is wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt is characteristic of this Government in so many respects. It is not just in Canterbury; not just in the Canterbury Regional Council. Now we are seeing it in this legislation too\u2014taking away the local voice, and taking away the voice of the people. It has happened so commonly with this Government, in the way it operates and the legislation that it is passing, and we are seeing it here now too. It is unnecessary and it is bad. It is one reason why the Labour Party will be opposing this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u00225afa04a364e64a76955d81c11b937c6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225afa04a364e64a76955d81c11b937c6d\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. I rise to take a call on the Land Transport Management Amendment Bill or, as it more accurately should be called, the \u201CLand Transport (Put it on the Credit Card and Pray for a Brighter Future) Bill\u201D. This bill\u2014this bad bill\u2014simply does a few bad things for New Zealand. It does not go about transport the key way, which is that we should be discussing how to get around. Let us not make up stuff and exaggerate, as we heard from the National backbench, about horse and carts. Let us have a discussion around how we design our transport systems that work for us in 2012. How do we design a transport system that is going to work for the future? How can we have a multimodal system, where we have a role for road safety improvements, rail, coastal shipping, walking, and cycling to boost our economy and to get us around our cities cheaper and faster, and how can we provide it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Government has not gone from that approach. It has gone from the Steven Joyce, \u201CColossus of Roads\u201D, transport approach, which is to put it on the credit card. He has gone around the country spending $14 billion on just seven new, uneconomic motorways, and now he has found that he has dug himself a fiscal hole. He has left the mess for Gerry Brownlee, the current Minister of Transport, and now the Government has to put it on the credit card. The bill also streamlines toll roads in New Zealand\u2014and I want to quickly touch on the privacy implications there\u2014and then reduces local input in decision making, when it comes to it. It is simply incredible that in a time of austerity, when we are facing nearly $70 billion in gross national debt, and when we are seeing the Government cut various Budget lines, this Government is quite prepared to put more uneconomic motorways on the credit card. It is simply mad, when we know that some of them have negative benefit-cost ratios. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ETake P\u016Bhoi to Wellsford. Independent consultants found that it had a benefit-cost ratio of 70c. This means that any member of the Government would get laughed out of a board meeting if they were going to borrow a dollar and get only 70c in economic return. It does not make sense. What we are seeing is a time of record high oil prices, declining road traffic, and public transport patronage breaking records and going through the roof. This Government is looking towards the 1950s to borrow more for motorways. It is like Julius Vogel in the 1870s borrowing billions to build bullock tracks, not the high technology of the time. It does not make sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EBut what this bill also does is reduce the privacy of New Zealanders. This bill, quite deliberately, in its streamlining of toll roads removes previous legislative requirements for personal information to not be collected. It has raised the Privacy Commissioner\u2019s red flag. She is concerned, and we look forward to her submission to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. The question is why the Government is doing this. I have not heard a single member on that side of the House talk about this issue. It is likewise with the Public Transport Operating Model changes. I have not heard anyone on the Government side say why they are doing it, because the truth is that they want their mates\u2014their mates who donate to them\u2014to cherry-pick the most profitable routes and leave the least profitable routes up to the councils. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EAt the same time, this Government wants to take away the local community representation\u2014the non-voting members on regional transport committees. It wants Steven Joyce and Gerry Brownlee to tell all of our cities, including Coromandel, which has had its local road budget slashed to pay for Auckland, to pay for Wellington, and to pay for Waikato, that there is no money for Coromandel. This is what we are seeing going forward with road safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe could be spending that money on road safety improvements. We could be spending that money saving the Gisborne rail line. We could be saving that money getting a rail link between our first-biggest and third-biggest city, but we cannot, because Gerry Brownlee and Steven Joyce have raided transport money and raided the transport pantry. They have run out of money and now they have to put it on the credit card. Now they are saying that your privacy will not be respected, and your local decisions will not be respected\u2014in fact, they are going to take those people off the regional transport committees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EAt the same time, they are also saying to Auckland: \u201CWe are not going to let you decide what you do with your transport money.\u201D They are explicitly stating in this legislation that we cannot have regional fuel levies. If Auckland wants to do it, if Auckland wants to go forward, it should be able to do it. This Government is the block to Auckland going forward, and it is going to get punished down the line. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EAt the last election the Green Party went to the New Zealand electorate with a modern plan for smart transport that would have saved the taxpayer money, that would have paid down debt, and that would have invested a considerable share in the central business district rail link, in light rail for Auckland, in rail, and in coastal shipping. What we lack from this Government are road safety improvements, which would actually save Kiwi lives now. There is a better way of doing it, and this bill is the absolute worst way you would go about it. Kia ora, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u00224fdb990bd5594e7ab793494411fd0f70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224fdb990bd5594e7ab793494411fd0f70\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Look, the heart of this Land Transport Management Amendment Bill is about efficiency in transport, and I can think of no better way to honour that than by supporting the bill and asking that it go to a vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220d9298c839334f1a9e9b1cf63044e393\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Land Transport Management Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 8; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000747\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000748\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20120911531ded74438d4fbb98d885cccc61ac46000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"