"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002219a20b26b4a2402fae0901a81eb5d618\u0022\u003EWednesday, 7 November 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e350d19d6ac3456ba8c5c39334d82f65\u0022\u003EWednesday, 7 November 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d5daea5ff164473f8731ddec0002fa79\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022449562741a544c759f3186dcf5880d2e\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00228cba6adeaf0f4dda964900a85af3a115\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cba6adeaf0f4dda964900a85af3a115\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Following discussions in the Business Committee yesterday, I seek leave for Wednesday, 14 November 2012 to be a members\u2019 day, despite Standing Order 74(1), and for any bills drawn from the ballot on Thursday, 8 November to be set down for first reading on Wednesday, 14 November, despite Standing Order 281(2).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022e905f64e376743828092be32f62d1755\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e905f64e376743828092be32f62d1755\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002214bf3e10406d40769a162a54fc772cfb\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002216e0381ae36d414f887aeb5f3fa8ca21\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002236a19fa61f1a4f1197f1e3ec73bd3ca6\u0022\u003EEconomy and Government Financial Position\u2014Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u00225fd4e344e1854f9fab08e932fc515b83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225fd4e344e1854f9fab08e932fc515b83\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he received on the Government\u2019s financial position?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00226e9ced23cc5c49e7a26d87952fad488f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e9ced23cc5c49e7a26d87952fad488f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Crown\u2019s financial statements for the 3 months to 30 September were issued today. They confirm that the Government is keeping its spending under control, but that revenue can be affected by the uncertain global economic situation and its impact on New Zealand. For example, in the first 3 months of this fiscal year Crown tax revenue was $295 million below forecast and core Crown interest revenue was $147 million lower than expected. This was partially offset by Crown expenses being $200 million below forecast, including slightly lower than forecast welfare expenses. The operating deficit before gains and losses was $2 billion for the 3-month period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f9814c332cd4586af4089fa4dd489d0\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: What approach is the Government taking to ensure it continues to carefully manage its finances so it does return to surplus?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a494245c52a44ab93e7878c90fcccb6\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s target is to return to surplus by 2014-15 so that we will then have choices about repaying debt, resuming contributions to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, or targeting more investment in priority public services. To achieve this we will need to keep on top of the factors we can control, such as remaining prudent with any new spending and borrowing. We will also continue to focus very strongly on delivering more public services, even where there is less money, to ensure that we support those who need our services. This is important in a world where economic conditions are unpredictable and could have unpredictable impacts on New Zealand Government revenue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3febb17789240f28dd4da9156e08edc\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he received on the global economic situation and its likely impact on New Zealand and Government finances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206db5f88a144458ba7eaf9777ca6a531\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Earlier this week Treasury published its monthly Economic Indicators for November, focusing on global growth. It notes that more than 5 years after the onset of the financial crisis the world economy is performing again below expectation. World economic growth in the first half of 2012 was generally below IMF forecasts, and the latest forecast for world output, issued last month, contained further downward revisions. If global growth does remain weaker than expected, it would affect New Zealand\u2019s growth and Government finances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250831b8ed39b4c6580f7e6b6062b0b4b\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: How is New Zealand\u2019s economy performing compared with most other developed economies, and what policy prescription would put this performance at risk?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b0e643ca1994a5299438a038046e289\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: We continue to perform at moderate levels, but nevertheless better than most other developed countries. In the first half of this year New Zealand grew by 1.6 percent, which is higher than growth rates in the US, Japan, Canada, the UK, and the euro area over the same period. Our quarterly growth rate is about the same as Australia\u2019s. Policies that would put this at risk would include borrowing more, spending more, and printing money, which would fuel costs for households and businesses and put jobs at risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab5517d51c68487c8d80400603ce71d6\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister stand in this House and pretend that it is good news that the Government deficit of $2.1 billion is $490 million\u2014or 27 percent\u2014higher than he projected in his Budget just months ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229230e518050e48529bf0bdecba6d8a9b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I am not saying it is good news; I am just saying it is the news. It is the news and it is a snapshot in a long journey towards repairing the damage that the previous Labour Government did to the economy and to Government finances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022216855de3fcb4484bf3d26ade51968be\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that in addition to an increasing Government deficit, the New Zealand economy is running the second-worst current account deficit in the developed world this year, and is projected by the IMF to have the worst current account deficit in the developed world next year; if it is correct, does he agree with the Governor of the Reserve Bank, Mr Wheeler, that that is far too high?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225744e5d774e049db8a551914d931a484\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: On the first issue, of course we want to see the Government deficit coming back. It was $18 billion 2 years ago, it was $9 billion last year, and we are on the track towards about $7 billion for this year and a $2 billion deficit the following year. Quarterly figures are not pushing us off that track. In respect of the current account deficit, I would take more notice of what the member said if it had not been the case that under his Government it doubled from 4 percent to 8 percent, which were the worst levels New Zealand has ever had. That was from the party that is now preaching the loudest about fixing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221df69026d7d04a6b99417b07dca5bf79\u0022\u003ESchools, Canterbury\u2014Proposed Closures and Mergers and Confidence in Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022161d8105c4074cf78c75d05dffcf7fa7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022161d8105c4074cf78c75d05dffcf7fa7\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he have confidence in all his Ministers; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u002237c9d20170894499857dcbc0ef56eacc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237c9d20170894499857dcbc0ef56eacc\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes; because they are working harder for a brighter future for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f975e9d260347a28706df09117b4f8b\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Does he have confidence in his Minister of Education and her management of the future of education in Christchurch; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e24eb726f5c4001a5c89e73a2f4d675\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes; because she is committing $1 billion to new schooling in Christchurch. I think what we all need to understand in respect of Christchurch is that a major earthquake took place that has changed the patterns of where people live. But it has also presented an opportunity to deliver 21st century schools to Christchurch. I simply make this point: we are not rebuilding the central business district in Christchurch with exactly the same buildings; we are using the opportunity to deliver arguably the most liveable city in New Zealand, and then maybe, just maybe, there will be an opportunity to deliver better schooling facilities for youngsters in Christchurch. I think that is a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba49077bc55a4785a1a4d24c1ae12cd3\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his undertaking that he will personally look through the response from each Christchurch school; if so, why does he think it is necessary for a Prime Minister to personally review submissions from all these schools if he does in fact have confidence in his Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253fa0de0692a43f986c3deb603cdeca0\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and I would point out that the Minister is personally visiting all of the schools. I understand that 35 of the 37 schools have agreed to that. Why am I personally doing that? Well, I take a personal interest in Christchurch. It is one of the Government\u2019s four key priorities, and I gave that commitment to the people of Christchurch because they kept on reading nonsense from Chris Hipkins that was getting printed in the Press.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209051cea4cf5429dbe66ae3e7838741b\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Why will his Government not tell the communities affected by the closure and merger proposals what all the options identified by the ministry are?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db5a4e0117ea41eb8e7c26e000ff6f4f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The purpose now is, with those affected schools, to go through all of the options for those clusters, to talk about what the options might be and the reasons why, and to potentially come up with some good solutions. What the Government is saying to the people of Christchurch, to those parents who are affected, and to those schools, is that we are listening to you, but we are also listening to the advice we are receiving about what is changing. We are going to spend a billion dollars over the next 10 years\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227faeda8b87f4a1dad68feb393c6a448\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have been listening for quite a while. I actually asked why he will not tell us what the options are that were put forward by the Ministry of Education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c523204aeab45369b7c9e9fa66bb350\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is welcome to repeat his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f5c3a9e9533435eaf99e4e5f928b056\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Why will his Government not tell the communities affected by closure and merger proposals what all the options identified by the ministry are?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e317975397e94db5959a791ee62b7353\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have all of that detail to hand. I know what is being proposed there. So you might do best to ask that question of the Minister herself. But the point is we are now engaging in a full communication process with those schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9ce8683106b4308a6ff7d52da4be57c\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was not what those options were. It was why the Minister would not tell us what those options were. The Minister has not addressed the question at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3bc6525875740dabe5d94484b8aa328\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the Prime Minister has, in that he said he cannot tell the House what those options are because he does not have them. That kind of detail, he recommended, should be directed to the Minister of Education, and that is not unreasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb15ae79d3824897b7667f9c55ad27bf\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. No one was asking the Prime Minister what the options were. The question was why his Minister is not releasing those options. She is the person who has refused, under the Official Information Act\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223736f7732420450882cdcd75553b3ca7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member is getting into debate on the matter. The Prime Minister welcomed members to question the Minister of Education on the matter, and that is not an unreasonable response from the Prime Minister. The member asked why he is not releasing that information. The Prime Minister said to address that to the Minister. He has obviously made it clear that there is no Government policy not to release that information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea941479213b46a6a49d1a66429d6f9d\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Will he instruct the Ministry of Education, through his Minister, to release the ministry\u2019s advice on the future of Christchurch education, which my office requested under the Official Information Act, and which has been withheld by the ministry on the basis that there \u201Cdoes not appear to be overriding public-interest reasons\u201D to support the release?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bc35836270d4b1c89588f32a26de854\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, because I think the primary objective at the moment is to engage in good consultation with those schools and clusters, and that is what the Government is doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e2e9df4a4734a4a9d795f6e3c3214b3\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That question was really about whether he will instruct the ministry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256553a65595b433280a2f789ad6136ec\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In fairness, the Prime Minister did say that, no, he would not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e21312f2558447aa65fb7d4561d771a\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Is it acceptable that the schools proposed to be closed or merged have not been advised as to whether they will be allowed additional time to respond to the proposals, even though they have not yet received all the relevant information from the ministry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225296dd040a1a4c2bb0cbd766ac5fec63\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I may stand to be corrected, but my understanding is that the Minister is talking to the schools about giving them additional time in working their way through the process. I may be wrong, but that was the last conversation I had with her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222afdc84361384364bc85a1edf3136a9f\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: When did the Minister first make him aware of the data areas, including data on roll numbers, number of buildings, presence of facilities, and damage, that were included in the documents issued to schools as part of the rationale for the proposals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246ff9bf3d62e44e8b25bc053c035c3da\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I was aware after the schools had the information and had identified that they were in the list of schools that could be either merged or closed, or whatever it might be, that there was some discrepancy between the schools\u2019 data and the ministry\u2019s. A lot of data is agreed and correct, and some is not. Some of it is for very technical reasons in the way that they particularly count things. Some of it has been subsequently updated, because there was a gap in one particular period. But, again, all of that is largely an irrelevance, because in the end the schools, the clusters, and the Government are going to sit down on an agreed plan. They may disagree over time, they may choose to disagree, but the data will be agreed before we go forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280576d3f55794200970294013e11a381\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am sorry, Mr Speaker, but it was a \u201Cwhen\u201D question. I understand that the Minister went through and listed them. The question was when did he find out. We did not hear when. We heard a long list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022097f6f897e4b4698954cf863a74f5a0f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have already invited the Leader of the Opposition to repeat one question. I believe that the question was a little longer than that. I cannot remember now the detail of the question, and the Prime Minister, I believe, responded. His answer was reasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226987d42b10154bc0b71716f797ccaf8e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I think I made it quite clear. I said that sometime after the data had been released, I was aware that there was a discrepancy between what the schools thought and what the ministry thought. That was the time when I was aware. Rusty, open up your ears, son.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219e6caf42ad746feb4cbac23bef01375\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] No, order! I must ask the Prime Minister to withdraw that last statement. That is not acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238f5f8682a7a485d9dcfdaaf4afd8f82\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d522a6579b845c3937310965a079711\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Under a point of order, that to me is not acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ac33bbecd42d490fb9ac19a879a6b231\u0022\u003ECanterbury, Recovery\u2014Skills for Canterbury Programme Funding\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u00229269cf20e51742358eff0a8d02d91284\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229269cf20e51742358eff0a8d02d91284\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills and Employment: How is the Government helping Cantabrians upskill for the Christchurch rebuild?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3f1aefba7c24371944f9d9c9f4c417b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3f1aefba7c24371944f9d9c9f4c417b\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Last week the Government announced that it has committed a further $28 million from the Skills for Canterbury contingency to maintain the extended training pipeline for tradespeople for the Canterbury rebuild. This ensures that in 2013 providers will be able to build on the additional 3,500 trade training places and student support provided over the last 2 years. Christchurch will require thousands of builders, plumbers, landscapers, electricians, and engineers. It is crucial we have sufficient skilled tradespeople to meet this demand. The trade training funding under Skills for Canterbury is helping to ensure sufficient appropriately skilled people will be available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223118aabc29084e3ea1dd231092160cc8\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: How much has been invested to date in the Skills for Canterbury initiative?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280d1ea80bd4742579a350251c77eaba1\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The amount spent in total to date is now $65.2 million. This includes $16.7 million from Tertiary Education Commission baselines, $11.7 million of reprioritisation from polytechs and institutes of technology, and now $36.8 million from the Skills for Canterbury contingency. This money is invested in places this year and last year, with similar numbers to be available in 2013. Initiatives include the Pacific trades initiative, the M\u0101ori Trade Training initiative, and funding for the new Canterbury Skills and Employment Hub. Can I say that there are places available right now for people to be involved in the Christchurch rebuild. The Stronger Christchurch Infrastructure Rebuild Team, for example, is recruiting for around a thousand people to be trained and employed for the rebuild, and I strongly encourage anyone who is interested in being part of it to contact their local training provider and find out the opportunities available to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edc509dac9454b8394d135585d1696f0\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any other proposals about how the Government might have allocated the funding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295f08a1128c0400c8161949ae97613cd\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed, I have seen and received a number of suggestions over the last year advocating that the entire Skills for Canterbury contingency fund be spent immediately, if not sooner, irrespective of need, rather than on an as-required basis. These proposals came from a group of people whose definition of success is entirely about how much money they can shove out the door as quickly as possible, rather than what is required. These people have no concept of how to balance the books. I am, of course, referring to the New Zealand Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ac0579e92194887a2a0b48e714682f1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Minister was lucky that was the very last word he said. He should not attribute his summary of policies to another party, especially in response to a question from his own colleague.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc926bc11f7d4bd8b74cc598646d30a6\u0022\u003EDr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Was he advised in March this year that in order to meet the demands of the rebuild there was a requirement for a thousand additional Stronger Christchurch Infrastructure Rebuild Team places to be established in 2012; if so, why was there an 8-month delay before Minister Brownlee launched the team\u2019s training and employment programme on 1 November 2012?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b740021110404d5eb8617d3d0303b30e\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: In response to the question, of course it was required\u2014it was needed in 2012 and it has been provided in 2012.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022319f11cd01cd4195906ed4ce965887d5\u0022\u003EDr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document, a briefing from the Tertiary Education Commission to Minister Joyce dated 28 March, which shows a requirement for a thousand additional places made in 2012, made up of 500\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fa2fb5baa9b4872a6238319d2f3f48e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022586534b08af349338cc540d9e3f562d0\u0022\u003EUnemployment\u2014September 2012 Quarterly Employment Survey and Comparison of Forecasts\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022112315a76e1a4d58bd8990639f9740c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022112315a76e1a4d58bd8990639f9740c6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: In Budget 2011 which year was unemployment forecast to fall below 5 percent and when does Treasury now predict unemployment to fall below 5 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c860e1911f7a461e88f3d5e1af6f12e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c860e1911f7a461e88f3d5e1af6f12e2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E In Budget 2011 Treasury predicted unemployment would fall below 5 percent in the 2012-13 year. Right now it is updating its forecast for the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update, which will be released in December. I would expect that it would be some years later that unemployment will fall below 5 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022964eb94d1fd44be490d4d987d11f3d06\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That question was on notice, and it did not ask what Treasury\u2019s future projections were. It asked what its current projection is\u2014when it predicts unemployment to fall below 5 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022660107e019d145feab27c78628fcb077\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister has that information, that would be helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab3734117d9b41fda7a5e9d062493098\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I am just checking the information further in the Budget. If by \u201Cnow\u201D the member means Budget 2012, which is the most recent Treasury projection, back in May, it forecast unemployment would go below 5 percent in 2015-16.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022634db3e1696d4bfba212309054153415\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his election promise to create 170,000 more jobs by 2015; if so, how many extra jobs have been created since that promise was made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b99e5b471fc34bd4890cdc3a1eb648ef\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It was a forecast, not a promise, because, unlike the Labour Party, the Government does not actually create jobs directly. In fact, Government jobs are shrinking. Government jobs are shrinking. It is businesses that create jobs, and there have been tens of thousands of new jobs. There are more New Zealanders than ever in a job today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206ddb6bc14cd47f692b8476099be5cc6\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: According to the quarterly employment survey, did the number of filled full-time jobs increase or decrease in the September quarter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9a35058b5be478b8202a22ea765edf5\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I think the quarterly employment survey had the number of full-time jobs decreasing and the number of part-time jobs increasing. Part of the increase in those part-time jobs is likely to include people who are responding to the Government\u2019s clear signals about changes in welfare policy, and therefore are taking up part-time work where they were not before. We regard that as success. Of course we would like to see more full-time jobs, but in the last quarter there were not more full-time jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3bc7ae363214452b8c3d25e0f705029\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: According to yesterday\u2019s quarterly employment survey, are there more jobs or fewer jobs in the manufacturing industry than there were a year ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fb03c5aa8d14114a2fd3b7016c0eb27\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I think the survey shows there are fewer jobs in the manufacturing industry, but they still have not been able to manufacture a crisis in the way that the Opposition is trying to. The fact is that we have grumpy growth. We are going to grow between 2 and 3 percent pretty consistently. Some sectors and some businesses are losing jobs; some sectors and some businesses are flat out trying to recruit people\u2014in fact, they cannot get the skills that they need. We would expect that this will be the pattern for the foreseeable future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220eef3ac1cd1477183a99465560ec0df\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: In the history of the quarterly employment survey data series, which goes back to 1989, has there ever been a quarter with fewer filled jobs in manufacturing than the September 2012 quarter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf4f74e740334151aa8cebea2dd871fb\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know the answer to that, but I would warn the member that you cannot run economic policy off quarterly surveys, particularly when quarterly figures are so volatile.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a74ed26ac9a44419841b8c532386a252\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document from the Parliamentary Library showing the number of filled jobs in the manufacturing sector is the lowest recorded since the data series began in 1989.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022332195236e824e23ad792bd6271b6d6e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226f38d1e0d12841f8a72be37c74e60c7c\u0022\u003ETax Credits\u2014Access to In-work Tax Credit\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022091aee4ed3994547ba32736a13b6dcda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022091aee4ed3994547ba32736a13b6dcda\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Revenue: How many parents have lost access to the in-work tax credit in the past year because they have lost their jobs or no longer work enough hours to qualify?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2bef12600434845be55154e4e33ab19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2bef12600434845be55154e4e33ab19\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E The member should not be surprised that my answer is exactly the same as I gave to her written question No. 8951 barely 3 weeks ago\u2014namely, the Inland Revenue Department does not specifically record why a recipient does not receive a particular component of Working for Families tax credits. Entitlement to each component can start and stop throughout the year, depending on the family circumstances, all of which cannot be accurately separated or identified to answer this question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022623006db992c46008891119fc48adbb0\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Minister content to allow this financial support to be taken away from children whose parents lose their jobs through no fault of their own?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e6284fec361479abf9ae19b26168f5a\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: What the member overlooks is that there are a range of other support mechanisms in place to help parents in that situation, and as a consequence of those other support mechanisms, the current practice, introduced by the previous Government, with regard to the operation of the in-work tax credit is appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272d0b5a0fcea4d9eb63073ddefb83784\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister claim that the current support for those families who lose their jobs is adequate for children, when the family tax credits and benefits combined still leave 70 percent of the children in those families in poverty, the jobs do not exist for their parents, and we know that the in-work tax credit amount alone can significantly relieve that poverty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fae1994ede1421f9a4a786b1f920093\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: There are two reasons for my comment. The first is that the OECD has made it very clear that in its judgment\u2014and New Zealand is part of the OECD and generally respects its judgments in these respects\u2014child poverty is best helped through workforce participation and encouraging workforce participation. The second part of my answer is that the member is selective in terms of the benefits that she makes reference to. In addition to those that she commented upon, families in that situation would also be entitled to the unemployment benefit and they may be entitled to sole parent support, an accommodation supplement, an emergency benefit, various training allowances, a child disability allowance or disability allowance, and, possibly, after-school allowances. So if she wants to make the comparison, she should put the whole suite of measures on the table, and not just a selected number of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4b6212f54254764841b04983c6f4e02\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that every 3 months 75,000 hard-working people, including thousands of parents, become unemployed under the Key-Dunne Government, and how is it fair to take away the in-work tax credit from them and their children when they lose their jobs in those difficult times?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251f685fb8bd94627892533ca8956c104\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: I have got no idea where the member draws her figure from. I think it is a figment of her imagination. The point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022387f05c3dded43f89aebdb6db87d4809\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: From your own ministry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ea6615b243240c497a958421ec3ecd6\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: The member says it is from my own ministry. In my original answer I made it very clear that because of the nature of the way in which these interactions occur it is impossible to identify the numbers involved. The member seems to deny that. But the point that I was making in my original supplementary answer\u2014and I will make it again\u2014is that the member is being very selective. She is drawing on a range of issues only. There are a number of mechanisms available to help families in that situation, and the member should put all of those on the table when considering this question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221eda8562dc9944b1b798f417043a48ba\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: How is it fair that the children of 40,000 hard-working people who lost manufacturing jobs in the last 4 years of the Key-Dunne Government should also be financially punished by having their in-work tax credit taken away as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223755cc67eaf84af5b82b74419d84e3a6\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: My answer is the same as it has been to previous iterations of this type of example. But I would make one other point: what the member\u2019s legislation proposes is creating a disincentive for low-income working families to remain in employment. One of the whole reasons why the Working for Families in-work tax credit was introduced in the first place was to actually make it more palatable and more attractive for those low-income families to be in employment. The member wants to actually turn that on its head, and make more people reliant on the system as beneficiaries, rather than do what every other country does and seek to encourage them into paid employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022933bfccc0126480d99dc253002944108\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister is so worried about incentivising people who work, why does he then deny the tax credit to up to 40 percent of sole parent beneficiaries who are in part-time work, whose children are very likely to suffer the worst effects of long-term poverty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2b38a1020d54d93a8316c69f9534b50\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: I should point out to the member that there are a number of other tax credit mechanisms available to help families in the type of situation she refers to\u2014for instance, the family tax credit, the minimum family tax credit, and the parental tax credit. When you add all of those things together\u2014and they are regularly adjusted for inflation\u2014they provide a substantial uplift for families in that situation. They also ensure that low-income working families are recognised for their efforts and, as a consequence, encouraged and incentivised to remain in employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa8c82ce4e3548f3b12a3b43739fd0df\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was not about other kinds of tax credits. It was an explicit question about working people who are denied the in-work tax credit, and I do not believe that the Minister answered that question properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225123646f5d5c47e388960de47fe02f3d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If I recollect correctly, the member started her question with \u201CGiven the Minister\u2019s such-and-such, how can it be fair \u2026\u201D, or \u201CHow does he believe it is fair for something \u2026\u201D, and the Minister answered that he believed it was fair because these people have other things available to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224958be3e365c4330bc382417b4949f33\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister dismiss my compromise to him to extend the in-work tax credit for 6 months to those who lose their jobs\u2014a compromise that would relieve some of the worst financial stress for children and for families at a very difficult and insecure time when their parents lose their work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5c509daf0fd4d9fb7c7bd87c8a79fd0\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: Two reasons: firstly, the point I made earlier about employment and encouraging people into workforce participation, and, secondly\u2014again consistent with OECD strategy\u2014employing policies that make work pay. What the member\u2019s bill does is create a disincentive for people at that low-income margin to be in full-time employment. I think that is wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256ea44eba81847aa9e54f03393779de9\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with economics professor Susan St John that extending the in-work tax credit to all children below the current income threshold, even if their parents are looking for work, are caring for grandchildren and receive superannuation, or are studying, would be an effective way to reduce poverty and income inequality?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022055901d6701e4d69a5180fbc96230d0a\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: I seldom agree with Associate Professor St John. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bd55f58f1fc45fda48aaf6b2feaf8eb\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the statement from United Future leader Peter Dunne when he pledged to Closer Together Whakatata Mai to \u201Cactively support policy measures that reduce income inequality\u201D; if so, why will he not support my bill, which is just such a measure he pledged to support, at least going to a select committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b47d9c11a0b748bbb1bec55f07ed4154\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: I do agree with that statement. The fact that as Minister of Revenue over the last 7 years, under both Governments, I have been part of seeing the biggest shifts in personal tax rate reductions for the bottom two income steps is proof of the point that I make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c48318a3bd2743139a1d086fc5bc1781\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not relieved poverty for the worst.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224963d8f8a6e74d3182e90db1d97fbd73\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: The member says that does not relieve poverty. What that interjection proves is that this is a highly subjective rather than objective argument. My focus has been on ensuring that our tax system works fairly for those at the bottom of the income scale. The last thing I want to see is a disincentive created for low-income working people to remain in full-time employment, as the member\u2019s bill would do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269cf4ac4b1b149559b70df4c20634ffd\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Why will not the Minister support this potential solution at least being considered by a select committee, when all the evidence suggests that it could make the crucial difference to a quarter of a million Kiwi kids, and that he today could be the difference between an empty and a full plate for many of these children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224476d9c82d645adb01130cf39ab5266\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: I reject that assertion entirely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245f88b3b2aef43d09c74a94ae0d046bb\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: You reject those children entirely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6a1c40f23a54a77bb6bc9ff58f8dc55\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: I am not rejecting those children. That is a ridiculous statement. What this is about is a good policy environment that the previous Government put in place called Working for Families. This Government is committed to it. It ensures that low-income working people are rewarded for the fact that they are in employment, consistent with international standards. The best way to boost the incomes of those households is through full-time employment, not through loading them up on the beneficiary train, which the member wants to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cecd8ac3c777417881b45933dfbe810f\u0022\u003EOffenders, Rehabilitation\u2014Alcohol and Other Drug Treatment Court Launch\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u00222c46057ce60f4ba38a596b67b609e599\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c46057ce60f4ba38a596b67b609e599\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: How is the Government reducing crime and reoffending by helping offenders to deal with their addictions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022f149ab8c6c444e89bc018baaf5f46b01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f149ab8c6c444e89bc018baaf5f46b01\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Last week I launched the new alcohol and other drug courts in Auckland. This pilot programme will enable 100 offenders each year who are facing prison sentences and who are prepared to acknowledge their offending to participate in addiction treatment programmes, which will be actively overseen by the courts. Similar programmes in other jurisdictions have resulted in significant reductions in repeat offending. This Government is focused on reducing crime in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ebc502c653b41a4b6631f2ef74d5611\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: What else is the Government doing to reduce reoffending?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c53263cc52454e6bad2822c4e2cc4b65\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: The justice sector has a target to reduce reoffending by 25 percent by 2017. The alcohol and other drug courts are part of a wider $10 million a year package funded by alcohol excise revenue and providing for early intervention screening, a range of programmes for drink-drivers, youth alcohol and drug services, and more training and development within workplaces. The Department of Corrections has also invested heavily in drug and alcohol programmes in our prisons. This past year we have seen a 6 percent drop in reoffending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229bce98a3b7bf46c48cb6bf16070ecd0f\u0022\u003EHon Kate Wilkinson\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022a348469df6644a60844bb48c8e44395d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a348469df6644a60844bb48c8e44395d\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014West Coast - Tasman)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he have confidence in Hon Kate Wilkinson as a Minister in his Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00224ef3508fb6784a61bf4cf77a555e89b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ef3508fb6784a61bf4cf77a555e89b9\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fa78807625a41acb9843d4499d93060\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What, in his opinion, did Kate Wilkinson do wrong that lead to her resignation as Minister of Labour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256a168f27bf048d49c4ae09223bd33fa\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: As the Minister said, she felt it was the honourable thing to do because the report of the Royal Commission on the Pike River Coal Mine Tragedy was effectively so damning of the department that she had responsibility for, and because 29 men had lost their lives. She felt that that was the appropriate thing to do. I supported her view in doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbd0a359cbbc41c39df50ae3fd50079a\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Minister considers she has done no wrong, is it not correct that some of the key responsibilities of Ministers are to monitor their department, to demand accountability and to ask the right questions of their department, to check that their department is actually doing its job, and to act on appropriate advice, such as the letter I wrote on 6 May 2010; if he does agree that these are key responsibilities, are not these the very areas where Kate Wilkinson was derelict in her duty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa1005f175b84eb999785a23dc9013c1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not believe that accurately characterises it. I have seen the letter that the honourable member wrote. I have also seen the response. Looking at the response, it is quite clear that the Minister took the correspondence very seriously. She, in the report, actually relied on her officials\u2019 advice that had come out of the 2009 review. She spent some time looking at the operational capability. She also indicated that the Department of Labour had said that there was no recent change in the pattern of mining serious-harm notifications that may give cause for concern. She has acted pretty much on all of the advice that I can see from the ministry, with the one exception being where it did make a recommendation in relation to small mines, but the reason she declined that is that, as the ministry itself said: \u201CThere are currently no mines operating with fewer than 20 employees and existing operators already have systems, so the above proposal would have no impact on any current mine operators.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ffa206fb2b64d5da0ad853fc9f24d63\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Given the rejection of advice on mine safety matters from the unions, from her department\u2019s internal review in 2008, and from my letter, how can he be satisfied that this Minister has the level of judgment required to be a Minister in his Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1a94086741d462e88ff0f471e926296\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if we want to get into the blame game, let us just start having a look at a few of the facts. For a start-off, Labour was elected in 1999\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c98fa5d0a9c49fa972f1e77e7ad6e90\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! A question was asked, and a question as to the Prime Minister\u2019s confidence in Ministers is a fair question. I think it would be proper to answer it and not to get into the blame game.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf48c217639946c3946b638d8ab73587\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Let me reverse the order, then. In relation to the advice that the Minister had, she received advice off the report that Trevor Mallard had received in 2008. She followed that advice. In the advice, the Department of Labour said there were two issues. One was in relation to small mines, where there was the highest risk. It said, by the way, I might add: \u201CGenerally, the legislative and regulatory framework was sound. The operational capability of the mines inspectorate was sufficient.\u201D, and I might add that this was the advice that the Minister acted on. By the way, this was on the back of the report that had been received by Trevor Mallard when he was the Minister in October 2008, and this is what Trevor Mallard said when he received this advice. It came in the form of a press release he put out in October of 2008. He said that the legislative and regulatory \u201Cframework was essentially sound,\u201D and \u201CBoth employer and employee submitters overwhelmingly supported the current legislative framework \u2026 They did not want to return to a more prescriptive regulatory framework.\u201D This comes from a Labour Government that in 4 of the 9 years it was in office in its last term cut the amount of spending that went into health and safety. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afbac6d678f04b6b9636d0a1d8588b07\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! A point of order has been called.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297d8c423cb134bbc8c0fddc98b86d205\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table the media statement that the Prime Minister has just quoted from, which says, inter alia, \u201Cthe quality of employees\u2019 participation in health and safety\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5cf5e57a6b34e699aa2a2162d98d911\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is. [Interruption] Order! Order! The House will come to order. Unless some members on my right want an early shower, the House will come to order. That is sufficient of that exchange. Members have the right to seek leave and other members have the right to refuse leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0305fb790c84257aa2489386cdea3f0\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the draft media release of 22 October, on which the media release was based.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c43dd5c0f4ca46ae8a23135c29216276\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table\u2014can we just check for the House. The draft media release was from the Minister\u2019s office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0be645284e24823840ddadfb03676c5\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: No. It was from the department.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f99224e760204272a85985e2f3191cdb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: From the department. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238ac42d136a044d18d269ca19432c0a0\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the communication plan, which indicates the issue in relation to lack of workers\u2019 voice. It is from the Department of Labour, 22 October 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0a259c69fd040a682e83f527de09e7b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f3dd2ae002748e79fc61141fbe5ab4b\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e617c10787f448fcb679417ee20310ac\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise to the member asking the question. I say to the Ministers on my right that I must be able to hear the question. I know my hearing is not brilliant, but I have got to be able to hear the question. The Hon Damien O\u2019Connor. [Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c806348d8234a72b3a6094fb21ed220\u0022\u003EHon Christopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll control her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022babcb215cb0148298457d5a3098d43b5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member can just resume his seat for the moment. I am very grateful to the Attorney-General for that offer. The Hon Damien O\u2019Connor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291a3f4c0bb3d439281608ddbd93ca947\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: That Minister will not be much better, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a1df66e5c32409c9505e7c50b79219c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will just ask his supplementary question, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288e9f33e318e43198ed69d2f3bc3ac7c\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister consider the Minister\u2019s resignation from one portfolio and keeping her Cabinet position on full pay is honourable when there are 29 miners\u2014fathers, sons, and breadwinners\u2014who are dead because of the incompetence in a department that she had full responsibility for?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f72aae947404997b54d66c663837e93\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I think all of this Parliament would acknowledge that no resignation of a Minister, whether it be from one portfolio or the entire Cabinet, would in any way come anywhere near giving the support that those 29 families actually deserve. But let us go back to the royal commission. The royal commission was quite clear: the primary responsibility for health and safety rested with the company. It utterly failed. The Government for 20 years relied on the same form and way of interpreting the law in 1992. Again, I go back to the press release that Trevor Mallard put out. In that press release he himself said they do not want to return to a more prescriptive regulatory framework. I make the point as well that not only did Labour cut health and safety expenditure in 4 out of 9 years; it also cut\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e73ee124122494bbb26dcdb4ece9c8f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is not necessary to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294228ff5dac040a4ba2325ff794f5d18\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Department of Labour do as it undertook to me as the Minister to do: to develop in consultation with industry a programme of work to further strengthen health and safety management systems for underground mining, and employee participation in that, and report back by June 2009? If it did not, why not, and if it did, why did the Minister reject that report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd970e0b3041472fb0821f3770a3394d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I might stand to be corrected, but my understanding is that that Minister received the advice sometime in 2008\u2014I am not exactly sure whether it was July or September but he received it in 2008. In October of 2008 he put out a press release. He did not respond or do anything in that regard. In fact, it was left unanswered by him as Minister. Then the incoming Minister, Kate Wilkinson, got from the department the advice that it would have also presented to that Minister, had he remained the Minister, because it had made it quite clear in the report that he had responded to in 2008 that the primary focus of concern was around small mines. The bottom line is nothing changed, and there is no evidence that that member, if he had been the Minister, would have had check inspectors or the other claims he has been making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225703a81322bf42e1954bb1cba8dd67b7\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It was very specific: did the department develop the programme that I quoted from, did it give it to the Minister, and what did she do with it? He\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8802e7f3b494beda2dbecb92e673ddf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I am on my feet. I cannot judge the accuracy of the Prime Minister\u2019s answer, but the Prime Minister did answer by saying he was unaware of any evidence of that, or of any of that information being presented to the Minister. The only information he was aware of being presented to the Minister was the briefing to the incoming Minister, which made certain recommendations. I cannot judge the answer. That is an answer. It seems to be rather contrary to the points the member made in his question, but I cannot judge the accuracy of an answer. That seems a reasonable answer to the question asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002232f9cd60123b40d49acf14ce0d93ac28\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00228bb2ff0bf9e24b4c8556518fd57a1eb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bb2ff0bf9e24b4c8556518fd57a1eb9\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he have confidence in all his Ministers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c352b0ebcb144676bd790f16bb68e92d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c352b0ebcb144676bd790f16bb68e92d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022323e811327834c3ab2d555818275da93\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How can he have confidence in a Minister whose role model for young New Zealanders includes making derogatory remarks about David Beckham and swearing in an educational environment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221d88de415704f78bdee25372988c1d3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would reject one of those terms, anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275b9c6aec39544dc93f342866ed8eade\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Which one? I have asked him a very clear question on notice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a6473c982e7471c8fe2f98e67ac8dae\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister does not have to in his answer indicate which one. The member included more than one issue in his supplementary question, and the Prime Minister answered, and that is all he is obliged to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7eb8c58073f4110a7e19bb7915601e3\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s hear from \u201CPrecious\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de1533759001492e91f346099c35227c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we do not want to hear from \u201CDopey\u201D, do we? How can he have confidence in a Minister who by making derogatory and insulting remarks about David Beckham, an internationally renowned sportsman\u2014perhaps the most well-known soccer player in the world\u2014on 2 November in Dunedin has tarnished New Zealand\u2019s international reputation and image?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e65b9c12c8b44fe78af5c00ed8061a8a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member is relying on hearsay from someone in a private conversation I was in. I suspect, actually, that if Mr Beckham heard the entire length of the discussion I had, he would actually feel quite good about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a77cc39651eb47e98ccc08358c301f44\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How would Mr Beckham be expected to feel good about being called, I think it was, bat scatology\u2014to use the polite term in this House\u2014and having a Prime Minister treat him that way after he spent thousands of hours in charitable work, including in New Zealand\u2014[Interruption] Mr Speaker, can I actually ask this question, rather than\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261ca305a84574342a771ce4073948ef9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! The member will resume his seat. The National benches will come to order. It is unhelpful to make that amount of noise. The member is entitled to ask his question, and I want to be able to hear it. The Rt Hon Winston Peters may start his question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b36f7c9af4c6432caa3bc05e4ba897e9\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure he\u2019s got one. Has he got one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d8031283b4541eea62d73a6710bd46d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, there you are. There is somebody leaking verbally more than her department.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a55906ddc8894d7db1a7c02ccd03ae0c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is not helpful either. The member will resume his seat for a moment. Can I appeal to the Attorney-General to look after the Minister on his right, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228aecb4ab79d346db848380e0d291e848\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: What does it tell the Prime Minister about the character of that Minister that, despite Beckham\u2019s giving thousands of hours to charity work, including in New Zealand, and including to that Minister\u2019s son, he goes behind his back and says a thing like that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a37abf3c1da44628988d172c631ccac4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member is making an assumption he just simply should not make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242db8752fd8c4c04be6ac59a0f89e5a1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Prime Minister\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296f2f5762aeb4e6582e18736741b08bf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I must be able to hear this question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251fc7b53877b47fc8ce6f0a8823af1c5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Yes or no, did he not say at a meeting with schoolchildren that David Beckham was as thick as bat\u2014and you know what the rest was. Is he denying it now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3961876f0a040f1b2707c12a8db89d1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Categorically, I did not say that, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285728b703a864661a076f4637b6194ac\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Would\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df616325c9224e2f837f327c17ffb2d4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I must be able to hear the\u2014[Interruption] No, look, I say this time to the benches on my left that the Speaker cannot arbitrate in these matters or chair the House if he cannot hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d2d76a7c20f4e5eb12911cb6d4a8514\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Prime Minister not think it reasonable for the rest of the country and this House to conclude that someone who rises in this House and outside in the public and flat-out lies should be fired from being a Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d6f97d71722447192644f216a108018\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said on numerous occasions, the quote was a hearsay comment. If you are asking me the exact words that that member said\u2014did I say that David Beckham was as thick as bat-whatever\u2014the answer is, categorically, I did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acb26f41d13542a98521d3c63d9cd39f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ded02c5a959c4a7b9d9a02c56cbc8068\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I believe the right honourable gentleman has had all supplementary questions available today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1352fee1de440bd95e4cffb45b50fdc\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have asked, then, five supplementary questions. The Prime Minister has denied saying that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc26167d08f3447f899c2eb9b418aa7c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da0693cba1584b8b95c78ce14a961cb3\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I complete my point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df77ba4808934daa8054618329521c6a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is quite clear there is not a point of order coming here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc9429d34a824f47acd5ea8df6ce783e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How can you be clear about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cc8102833fa4fdfb829951b4f454ead\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat. The member must make clear what the issue of order is. The member has some options. He could seek leave of the House, I guess, to ask a further supplementary question, but he cannot litigate the answers because he has run out of supplementary questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f94f78ab80774e168abe6ff77744ed2a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think if you or the clerk checks his notes, you will see that you have allowed me to ask a question again. I think he has got the numbers wrong here. I am on my fifth question now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272f5247756a54db0a6f26efdf0a6e3e7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Both my assistant who records the number of questions asked and I, who also record the number of questions asked, have separately recorded five supplementary questions. I apologise if we happen to be wrong\u2014I most sincerely apologise to the member\u2014but I cannot see how we could both be wrong on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233cff9849011404cb92d4434565bd699\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I know it is very late and you do not like this happening, but the Labour Party will give one of its supplementary questions to the Rt Hon Winston Peters in order for him to ask the question about whether the \u201Cshit\u201D word was used or not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f2a8adf83ae4976ba9cd073c66afea8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member did not help his case with that and he knows that is out of order\u2014that he cannot do that at this stage. If questions are to be transferred, it must be done properly, and I am not going to have a point of order used in that way, especially in that manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203b84c838f3c4fb4a54fb2dd81243503\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. If it helps in terms of clarification\u2014I am reluctant to swear in Parliament, but if the member is asking me whether I used the word \u201Cbatshit\u201D, I did not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d987df2dae8e488dbee3467caf1fd32c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have been granted an extra question by another party and I am grateful to it. I wish now to put that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a46a69e87fe447f95900ed6d3700b18\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member should know that under the Standing Orders members cannot be granted questions once question time has started. We must be advised prior to the commencement of question time if questions are transferred from one party to another. Those have been the standard procedures for some time. But if the member wants to seek leave to ask a further supplementary question, the House is perfectly at liberty to grant that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bec2cdecf7204e58a3882ff2bad1c095\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: In the interests of finding out what the Prime Minister did say, against what everybody said he said, I seek leave to ask the Prime Minister what he did say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261325ee403874a4c9cc530e16866ff5e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no. That is not the way it goes, at all. The leave the member is seeking is to ask a further supplementary question. I take it the member is doing that. Is there any objection to that course of action? There is objection. Question No. 9, Melissa Lee. [Interruption] Order! That matter has been dealt with. I have called Melissa Lee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022692a844b2b6442dc948b9eb71d62d827\u0022\u003EBeneficiaries, Canterbury\u2014Effect of Rebuild on Numbers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00228e0e05f71e2c497f9da2ddb4ba29858e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e0e05f71e2c497f9da2ddb4ba29858e\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: What impact has the Canterbury rebuild had on benefit numbers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00227e8614ecc12844399b53141f5bc6a131\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e8614ecc12844399b53141f5bc6a131\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E At the time of the February earthquake there were 5,380 people receiving the unemployment benefit in Christchurch. These numbers peaked in April 2011, rising to 6,326\u2014not the 24,000 that was often projected by Clayton Cosgrove. But today this number has halved to just 3,231 people receiving the unemployment benefit in the Canterbury region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203a38d1c0948491294c66c24ab9971f8\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: How many people have moved off benefits and into work in the Canterbury region?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022815f620892ac449395ba30d7cec092ed\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Since January this year, 7,363 people in the Canterbury region have cancelled their benefit because they have secured work. In just the last 3 months, 87 people have found work through our recently announced Job Streams package\u201444 of them in construction, 24 in hospitality, six in meat processing, six in retail, and seven in the agriculture sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299e46be20faa4a6fb1fa8aeca9fac605\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: How is Work and Income ensuring that young people are taking up available work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243eb602c86a244d8bbcdfb38a16abbb5\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Work and Income is working more intensively to case-manage people at the moment, with a particular focus on youth. For example, there are 1,400 fewer young people on the unemployment benefit than there were at the peak, following the February 2011 quake. There are now just 976 young people on the unemployment benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002258ea178342c14cefa9035b21d7ec6dd1\u0022\u003EState Housing\u2014Housing Stock and Vacant Properties\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u00222bcfd8f830af4400bba3efa7f000f8cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bcfd8f830af4400bba3efa7f000f8cb\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (Leader\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: Why is he persisting with the reduction of State houses, including in Glen Innes, at a time when there is a growing need for decent, affordable housing for low-income families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u0022f694c64e54fc48389e8aa15ba0c5ebc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f694c64e54fc48389e8aa15ba0c5ebc8\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (Minister for Building and Construction)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Housing: The member\u2019s assertion is just simply not correct. As of 30 June this year, there were 645 more State houses than when we came into Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5c97d5888e24b2a9837182971be768e\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe that the Government\u2019s housing policy, which is specifically designed around reducing the State housing stock in favour of private rentals and property options for the rich, and forcing people to leave their homes and their communities, will actually solve the current housing crisis for low-income families; if not, what other policy options is his Government considering?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225369c72cb4594bca81d71e2ad9d9767e\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is an indication of a member who has written a supplementary question before he has heard the answer to the first question. I will repeat it again. As at 30 June this year there were 645 more State houses than when we came into Government. How can the member keep asserting that we are reducing the number of State houses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f097ba342dd45c6bcb966a5f2d20230\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Do those figures include the reduction of State houses in Glen Innes, the sale of those properties to property developers, and the moving out of those State housing clients to other properties without returning those properties to State housing again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a249464073f04c1dacec67f7ecab8b5f\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: The 645 extra State houses include all of that. But can I tell the member that in Glen Innes the project will see 156 State housing properties redeveloped to create at least 260 new properties, including 78 fit for purpose State rental properties and at least 40 market-based affordable homes. These new homes will be modern, they will be safe, they will be warm, and they will be configured for people\u2019s needs. In fact, a number of people from Glen Innes are now complaining about protestors coming from outside of the area and mucking up their suburb.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8d7c16d01d6466c8d117c6754c4fca7\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that there are currently 3,358 vacant Housing New Zealand Corporation homes, even though the waiting lists are growing month by month, especially in Auckland and in Hawke\u2019s Bay; and does he agree with his Associate Minister of Housing who said recently that having empty houses while New Zealanders are living in cars and garages is totally unacceptable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a30a099622ec4d96bc5b7f7c3d007cd3\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: What I can tell that member is that there is always a problem of too many houses in a place where the demand is low, and not enough houses in places where demand is high. But can I tell her that the current level of vacant stock in the Housing New Zealand Corporation portfolio is around 2 percent. This compares very favourably with the private sector. Historically, this rate has always been around 1 to 2 percent, even when that member\u2019s party was in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002286aaea7ccec046c89f75110311a96c86\u0022\u003EFilm Industry, United States\u2014Intellectual Property and Meetings with Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b347f53a4e5e469fb08a341176480eec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b347f53a4e5e469fb08a341176480eec\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Did he meet with Warner Brothers and New Line movie executives in Los Angeles, and with US Trade Representative Ambassador Ron Kirk, who is responsible for US intellectual property and piracy matters, in the middle of last year; if so, on what dates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00226391438a6bd94efaa0c48d7efc791a00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226391438a6bd94efaa0c48d7efc791a00\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I had dinner with Warner Bros and New Line Cinema movie executives on 18 July 2011, and met with the US Trade Representative Ambassador, Ron Kirk, on 22 July. It is a little misleading to suggest that the office of the US Trade Representative is \u201Cresponsible for US intellectual property and piracy matters,\u201D. It is one of a significant number of US agencies that have input into intellectual property policy and enforcement in the United States. These include the United States Copyright Office, the United States Patent and Trademark Office, the United States Department of Commerce, the Office of Intellectual Property Rights, the United States Department of State, the Office of International Intellectual Property Enforcement, the National Intelligence\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ac0c7852ede4229a53096865f20fa9a\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think the Prime Minister substantially answered the question. I am not interested in a list of other US agencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a534ca26d8f0424bb42316a095d8c8b0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member would have been wise, perhaps, not to include an unnecessary phrase in his primary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5c9030296aa4a18a9a70d3e9da73e11\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: The primary question ascribed responsibility to the US Trade Representative for a particular matter. There is no doubt that he has responsibility for that matter. The fact that other agencies also have that responsibility is neither here nor there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0045f4e6b5a4cecba0d830ad5a2e4c6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Since the member does, more or less, challenge me, if he checks the Standing Orders, that phrase being allowed in the question was very marginal, because it is absolutely unnecessary for the question\u2014absolutely unnecessary for the meaning of the primary question\u2014and that is why the Prime Minister, I am sure, latched on to it. It is just a lesson in why this Standing Order is worded the way it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225efd6da63e2640e7b7e37fc90f76b59e\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: At any of those meetings, on either 18 or 22 July, was there any discussion of the United States Government\u2019s so-called review of notorious markets, whose purpose is to identify economies that fail to deal adequately with intellectual property infringements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9c3d37254b34fb88ce5e324bbf71720\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am almost certain that is no; it was certainly no in the case of the Warner Bros meeting. In terms of the meeting that we had with Ron Kirk, there was a wide-ranging discussion. We did talk a little about the Trans-Pacific Partnership. We did talk, in relation to that agreement, about upholding strong intellectual property frameworks. The only time the issue of piracy was raised, it was actually raised by Ambassador Mike Moore, who briefed Ambassador Kirk on the new copyright legislation that had been introduced in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4278362b52349a49264182fd049cdc9\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Before he went on that trip, did the Attorney-General discuss with him his recent trip to an Attorneys-General conference in Australia, a conference that focused on cyber-crime, and where the Attorney-General spoke specifically on extradition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b07a9364eb5348e8b9ba6952dbb5e69b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am very saddened to say this: no, he did not. It would have been a fascinating trip, and I love my engagements with Chris as he talks to me about his international travels. I wish he had done it, because I would have listened very carefully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215a29b72d82342b19150c545ada8c81a\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Did the then commerce and justice Minister, Simon Power, discuss intellectual property issues and his meeting with the Asia-Pacific head of the Motion Picture Association of America, Mike Ellis, with him before or after he went on his US trip?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e202bc464a14b46970ec065afb0a04e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, and at the risk of offending a colleague who has now left, can I say also that I thoroughly enjoyed my conversations I had with Simon Power on a range of issues, but this was not one of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c247d035d35418c84b32c37502fba2f\u0022\u003ETelevision, Switch-over to Digital\u2014TV TakeBack Programme\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab6ee8350dc3488a9b2d4facdf3eec51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab6ee8350dc3488a9b2d4facdf3eec51\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: How many televisions have been collected to date under the Government\u2019s TV Takeback programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u002219978bb88e8941ec905a29851e0dff1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219978bb88e8941ec905a29851e0dff1e\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E In just over 1 month, 18,145 televisions have so far been dropped off for recycling in the Hawke\u2019s Bay and on the West Coast, which, as the first regions to make the switch to digital television, are the first to be involved in the Government\u2019s TV TakeBack Programme. Based on the average weight of a television, this is the equivalent of over 435 tonnes of waste diverted from our landfills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280bf30ea3a9e4938885b4a9f56d358ab\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: What happens to the televisions once they are collected for recycling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e5bbe4dfe0f404aa927d13b57a9f5eb\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is a good question. Televisions dropped off for recycling are taken to national recycling facilities, where they are taken apart. Components are recycled locally or sent overseas to specialist recycling facilities. The material extracted has a variety of uses. For example, glass from the screens can be transformed into bunker sand for golf courses; copper around the electron gun can be recycled into new cabling; and degaussing wire, which sits around the front of the screen, is high-grade iron that can be recycled into metal goods. Televisions also contain materials that can be harmful if released into soil or waterways, such as lead, mercury, and cadmium. Safe recycling takes away the risk of contamination and reduces the volume of waste going into our landfills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222151bc2c2d834bc0919e9434b1a495d7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022793a5fe906b741e79aa4070c47470cdb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022793a5fe906b741e79aa4070c47470cdb\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Labour\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table an answer to a written question I have just received, which is not publicly available, I believe. It shows that the number of vacant State houses in New Zealand is 5 percent, unlike the answer the Minister gave in the House just a few moments ago. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002204519d5942994ed580dc097aef808edd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204519d5942994ed580dc097aef808edd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Leave has been sought, and there should be no interjection. Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227275145748e842858ca3129c08181cf3\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226de3b104c679414493dd43ef9498facb\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u00225b33db6b257e42ceaed6f988323e04a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b33db6b257e42ceaed6f988323e04a0\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. That seeking of leave just brings to attention the housing problem that we have in New Zealand. When you have 5 percent of our housing stock currently not being used\u2014that is around 3,300 homes that could actually house people on lower incomes\u2014that is a disgrace. That is a disgrace, because right now people in my electorate anyway are living in cars, in caravans, and two or three families to a home, when they could actually be living in a State house instead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThere is a real problem in New Zealand with housing and housing affordability. No longer is the Kiwi dream of owning your own home a real possibility for thousands and thousands of Kiwis. No longer can you get a chance to be on that bottom rung of the ladder. House prices have gone up in Auckland in particular, in Christchurch, in Tauranga, and in a number of other places\u2014in more than half of the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003ESo it was with great anticipation, enormous anticipation, that we wanted to hear what Bill English was going to announce to the Productivity Commission\u2019s report on housing. We waited 7 months. We waited 7 months. The build-up was excruciating. What did we get? An extraordinary let-down\u2014an extraordinary let-down. They weakened the Resource Management Act, they lowered industry standards, they pushed more responsibility on to councils, and they tried to make land cheaper by expanding the boundaries of Auckland, for example. So you have to get on to the motorway and drive for an hour, rather than actually do something intelligent, which is medium sized - scale housing inside of Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThat is it\u2014that was it. That was to solve New Zealand\u2019s housing problem. It fails utterly, and that is what everybody said\u2014not just us, not just me and not just Annette King, but, for example, the Mayor of Tauranga: \u201CIn my view it failed to take into account the reality of the situation\u201D, he said. Brian Fallow said: \u201CIt is fair to judge a policy package like the one on housing affordability announced this week by what they do to relieve those problems.\u201D\u2014those problems being housing affordability\u2014\u201CIn short, precious little.\u201D John Armstrong wrote: \u201CPackage? What package? \u2026 The plan looks like a rough first draft\u201D. In other words, nobody is impressed with this Government\u2019s performance on housing. It is woeful and it is disappointing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThere is a real shortage of houses for younger people wanting to get that first chance on the ladder, and this Government is determined not to do anything about it. It gives up on the most basic things to do. One thing it might want to look at, for example, is a capital gains tax, or at least not allow the price of houses to go through the roof, and at least put our investment into productive enterprises rather than into the Auckland property market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EEven when there is a possibility of State housing and community housing, as in the Hobsonville scheme, the Government cancels it. The Prime Minister calls it economic vandalism\u2014that is what he calls it, economic vandalism\u2014to put social housing into a housing development. Of the 3,000 houses, 1,000 were going to be houses that would have been able to accommodate low-income families. The Government cut it from 1,000 to 100. And guess what? Now it is down to 17\u201417. And the Government wonders why there is a housing affordability problem! That is why there is a housing affordability problem. It is because it is not doing anything about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EYou have got Craig Heatley\u2014Craig Heatley\u2014who is completely asleep at the wheel, completely asleep\u2014[Interruption] Sorry, Phil Heatley. Phil Heatley. Even Phil\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4bc27838cc94c2bb137bffeeb61b271\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227daccb7032d84bd19855dd6ad31f640a\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: Phil Heatley says he agrees with everything, and does absolutely nothing. He agreed with everything in the poverty report, and what did he do? He cut funding to community housing. He cut funding for State house maintenance\u2014[Bell rung]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00223f95361935d94c21b67dc21ff5bf1d5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f95361935d94c21b67dc21ff5bf1d5e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Before I call the Hon Bill English, the level of interjection\u2014actually the level of noise\u2014was discourteous. I hate interrupting members speaking, but it is so discourteous to have a high level of background noise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b314b982b95d45b2b332a3e7ec1c66e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b314b982b95d45b2b332a3e7ec1c66e4\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I have not yet met the housing Minister, Craig Heatley, but I am looking forward to meeting the leader of the Labour Party, Ian Shearer! At least he might get listened to by his front bench when he gives a speech. It is absolutely clear that even if Charles Chauvel was here yesterday, he should have been at the barbecue with the Davids, who were not here, because he did not start listening until the 4th minute of the speech. No doubt half of that caucus are sitting there thinking it is almost the second or third to last general debate speech that the current leader of the Labour Party will give.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EYesterday they were away plotting. What else would David Parker, David Cunliffe, and Grant Robertson be doing, if they were not in the House on a Tuesday? [Interruption] Well, Grant Robertson was probably on Skype\u2014I will give you that\u2014from New York, or wherever he was. I will tell you what they were talking about: the same things that New Zealand\u2019s union leadership is talking about in the Koru lounge, and that is who it is going to be to follow on from David Shearer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party should do what it did with Helen Clark. Helen Clark was polling very poorly, making no impact on politics, and Labour stuck with her. In fact, it stuck with her for 2\u00BD years until the 1996 election campaign, when she finally came through to show her political capacities in that campaign. She still lost the election, polling only 28 percent, but Labour kept backing her. That is when the Labour Party used to understand middle New Zealand, because it knew that in the long run it had a leader who could take it to victory. This Labour Party does not understand middle New Zealand, and that is why Labour members are looking to jump ship. The rats are leaving the ship because David Shearer does not look like he has beaten the Government this year. In just a matter of a few months since he has been the leader, they are ready to slit his throat, stab him in the back, and throw him to the wolves. But that is the easy bit. The hard bit is deciding who would replace him. My advice is that that fight will be so divisive that they should stick with David Shearer like they did with Helen Clark, because he has not all of the same qualities but some of the same qualities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI would say that he alone, of those on the front bench of Labour, has an instinct for middle New Zealand. There are other people there who do not, like the Hon David Cunliffe, who has said publicly\u2014and I think this is honest\u2014in the Listener: \u201CI think I am sincere.\u201D I think I am sincere! Well, ask anybody who has listened to this man\u2014he is not sincere. He has perfected the art, as Mike Moore said\u2014when you can fake sincerity, you have really got them. But at least David Cunliffe recognises his inner troubles\u2014and this is not an inner struggle that David Shearer has\u2014when he says that he has to keep reminding himself that it is not about him, every day: \u201CEvery day I look in the mirror and I tell myself, it is not about me.\u201D Well, the leadership of what used to one of New Zealand\u2019s fine political parties cannot be about an ego that big.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022922d36a5d4c1419e8e98e86f51f2f01d\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Bill knows a lot about leadership!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e56202f6c7b493c9aa48dd965f6a0bb\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I do know. I have been there. I know what it feels like. I know how David Shearer feels today, when he can hear them baying for his blood, knowing he is going to be cut down. It is just a matter of when, because this is the Labour Party at its best. The discipline it had under Helen Clark is gone; now it is egos, now it is each man for himself, and now Labour members spend a lot more time talking about themselves than they do\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u002218b72f6344024632b04e0a9dd0787ef5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218b72f6344024632b04e0a9dd0787ef5\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Labour\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Of course, Bill English knows a lot about leadership, because he was \u201CMr 22 Percent\u201D, who took the National Party to one of the worst defeats that it ever had. He is still bitter about it, he is still whinging about it, and he is still plotting at every moment how he can get back into the Prime Minister\u2019s seat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ELast week the long-awaited affordable housing package from the Government was announced. You know, it reminded me of that old Peggy Lee song from the late 1960s, \u201CIs That All There is?\u201D. If you remember, Mr Speaker\u2014and I am sure you do\u2014it was a song about disillusionment. I have to say that New Zealanders who have been waiting and wishing and hoping for a response to the growing housing crisis in New Zealand have every right to feel disillusioned. Seven months ago the Government received a report from the Productivity Commission on affordable housing. What did that report do? It set out the issues, it highlighted areas for action, and it gave the Government 33 recommendations. For 7 months we had to wait for the Government\u2019s response. For 7 months we got the old political striptease from the Minister of Finance: a little speech here, a little hint of action over there, a patsy question or two in Parliament, and some pathetic comments like \u201CWe clearly have a problem in Auckland with a lack of supply of housing, particularly for low-income people. We are determined to get a better deal for people.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI say to Bill English that he is either not determined enough, or he is a spent force in the National Cabinet, because he has been overtaken by the ideas man, the apparatchik of the National Party, Steven Joyce. The affordable housing package is toothless, and it is gutless. As John Armstrong wrote in the New Zealand Herald last week, \u201CPackage? What package?\u201D. I have to agree with him. He said that the Government\u2019s plan looks like a first draft. Duncan Garner on his blog wrote that \u201CThere is nothing bold in here at all.\u201D [Interruption] Oh, so they are now laughing at Duncan Garner. This is a man they all suck up to most of the time. They do not like it when he writes the truth. He said that \u201Cit is tinkering while Auckland burns in the face of unsustainable house prices.\u201D He said that National \u201Chas shied away from getting hands on or even getting its hands dirty.\u201D He said that there was one word for it: underwhelming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWhat I say is that it is tinkering by muddled thinkers devoid of ideas, paralysed by ideology, lacking in vision and innovation, and into a whole lot of blame shifting. Local government, they say, must stump up, or else. We do not know what the \u201Cor else\u201D is, but local government is being told it must stump up and address affordable housing in New Zealand. Of course, the irony of that is that at the same time that Bill English is saying that, Nick Smith and his would-be Minister of Local Government, David Carter, are saying \u201CNo, no, local government, you must get out of anything the private sector could do.\u201D Well, I can say that this is a pathetic response to a very serious problem in New Zealand. We have been told that there will have to be more inquiries, more work done, and more evaluations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThere is a choice the Government can make. There are two paths a Government can go down. One is where it is hands-off, with an approach of \u201CBusiness knows best\u201D and letting the market rule; a deregulated economy, deregulated safety, and deregulated everything. We are seeing the results in New Zealand after two decades or more of that approach, with some of the worst health and safety records around the world, with leaky buildings, and with a deregulated electricity market that they said would give us cheaper prices, but which means we are paying more. Then there is the other path a Government could go down; a Government that is more hands-on, that is supporting its exporters, that is protecting New Zealand jobs, and that is leading our building of affordable homes in New Zealand. The Government should be leading by example. An example was in Hobsonville. What did it do? It cancelled affordable housing, and it cancelled State housing. It is devoid of ideas, and nothing in housing will happen under this Government as long as it occupies the Treasury benches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca5de32f7f9640ab915199abb560ce62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca5de32f7f9640ab915199abb560ce62\u0022\u003EHon TIM GROSER (Minister of Trade):\u003C/span\u003E We all know the clich\u00E9s about being in Opposition, and they all add up to one and the same thing\u2014it is not a pretty place to be. It is particularly difficult when you are in Opposition when you are clearly facing an internal leadership crisis of the type that Mr English has just outlined\u2014when the Green Party is eating your lunch at the same time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EIt is perfectly clear what has happened. There has been some type of strategy meeting and somebody has come up with a \u201Cbright idea\u201D. The bright idea is \u201CLet\u2019s declare there is an economic crisis\u2014a crisis in manufacturing\u201D, and everyone who is desperate for something other than another silly proposal to print money has said \u201CWhat a brilliant idea! We\u2019ll hold a conference, we\u2019ll paper over our cracks, and we\u2019ll declare there\u2019s a crisis.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EThe only problem is that you cannot declare a crisis. You cannot create a crisis by political fiat. It is particularly difficult to say that New Zealand is facing a crisis when you are facing the following economic realities. No. 1 is the cost of living. The rate of inflation has fallen from 5.1 percent in November 2008 to the lowest rate this century, taking pressure off New Zealand families, New Zealand households, and New Zealand companies trying to compete everywhere. It is very difficult to say you are facing a crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EIt is very difficult to say you are facing a crisis in manufacturing when you have just seen a Government oversee the creation of 60,000 net jobs in the last 2 years. It is very difficult to say that you are facing a crisis when the Government that replaced you was facing forecast unemployment going up to 10 percent and it is now\u2014still higher than we all want it to be, and it is a very challenging situation\u2014around 6.8 percent. It is very difficult to say that there is a crisis facing middle New Zealand when the average New Zealand household with a $200,000 mortgage is facing a mortgage bill that is $200 a week after tax lower than they were paying in April 2008. That is $200 in the hand. It is very difficult to persuade those folks that they are facing a crisis. The superannuation married rate is 22 percent higher than it was in April 2008. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EIt is very difficult\u2014if we move to the macroeconomic front\u2014to say that New Zealand is facing a crisis when the current annual growth rate is 2.6 percent and when you look across the developed world and look at that in comparison with what other countries that also enjoy a high standard of living are facing at the moment. Net Crown debt, which was forecast when we came to Government to rise above 60 percent, and deficits thereafter, is now forecast to around 30 percent. That is when the UK itself is looking at net Crown debt of 85 percent of GDP. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EIt is very difficult to sustain a manufactured crisis in the face of economic facts like those. Let me try to illustrate what would represent a real crisis\u2014a real crisis. We do not have to invent one, unfortunately. We have only to look at eurozone countries and, to some extent, see what emerges in the United States to understand what a real crisis is. A real crisis is when you are sitting on eurozone unemployment of over 11 percent\u2014almost, just a tad short of, twice New Zealand\u2019s unemployment rate. A real crisis is when you have got within the eurozone a 25-plus percent general level of unemployment in the fourth-largest economy in the eurozone and you have got 50 percent youth unemployment\u2014people between 15 and 24. One in two of them is unable to find a future for themselves. That is not just an economic crisis, that is not even just a social crisis; that could have long-term extraordinarily serious political consequences for the stability of those places. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EThat is what a real crisis looks like, not this manufactured crisis designed to paper over the Opposition\u2019s internal difficulties. A real crisis is when the Government is not following the sorts of policies that this Government is following\u2014steady, disciplined control over public expenditure, nothing extreme, designed to help hard-pressed New Zealanders take the edges off the recession and manage us all through this extremely difficult patch internationally, which is facing all countries in the world. When you are looking at massive cuts in welfare and health services, and 500,000 jobs in the UK public sector to be slashed in the next 4 years, that is a real crisis, not the phoney crisis that the Opposition is trying to paper over.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u00221dd7ac704bea4ea49226aa0dfc1a84e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221dd7ac704bea4ea49226aa0dfc1a84e8\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Later tonight my bill to almost halve child poverty, the Income Tax (Universalisation of In-work Tax Credit) Amendment Bill, will have its vote in the House. I want to thank all those community organisations, Every Child Counts, the Child Poverty Action Group, Champions for Children, and many other groups and individuals who have written and emailed, tweeted and facebooked, marched, rallied, and otherwise worked to have this bill pass its first reading tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIt is with genuine sorrow that I report that we are still yet to find the one more vote we need to send this bill to the Social Services Committee. All those parties supporting the bill tonight have been given a pair of infant socks\u2014baby socks\u2014as a small gesture from me to acknowledge their commitment to finding a real solution to the poverty that is suffered by a quarter of a million children in New Zealand today. I have one pair of baby socks left, because we need only one vote from one party to pass the bill. That one vote will bring the family income of an estimated 100,000 New Zealand children above the poverty line. That one vote will ensure that these children have a warm, dry home, shoes on their feet, and food in their bellies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EMany organisations have expressed their distress at Peter Dunne\u2019s decision to oppose my bill. During the 2011 election he signed a pledge with a group called Closer Together Whakatata Mai. That pledge says: \u201CAs a politician, I choose to commit to building a fairer New Zealand and will actively support policy measures that reduce income inequality and bring people closer together.\u201D At the time, Peter Dunne wrote: \u201CI very much support your call for more detailed debate around the possible ways to reduce poverty and income inequality.\u201D I ask Peter Dunne to honour tonight that pledge he made. In a Facebook post in response to my bill, Peter Dunne has said: \u201CI believe there needs to be recognition of the hard-working efforts of low income families, and the existing In-work Tax Credit is a way of achieving that.\u201D It is a way, but it is a way that discriminates against the poorest families. My bill will remove that injustice and reduce poverty and income inequality, which he said he wants to achieve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EI have offered Peter Dunne and the National Government two compromises on my bill in order to meet their concerns. The first offer was to retain the hours worked criteria so that all parents who work would receive the in-work tax credit. At the moment, if you work and you receive a benefit, superannuation, or a student allowance, that work goes unrecognised. Mr Dunne has said that he believes in recognising the hard-working efforts of low-income families, but he has refused to recognise the hard-working efforts of this group of low-income families\u2014some 40,000 DPB recipients who work, and another 20,000 who will be expected to work at least 15 hours a week next year. They all go unrecognised by Peter Dunne. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EI have also offered an amendment to the Government and Peter Dunne that would allow a family to retain the in-work tax credit for 6 months after they lose a job or have insufficient paid hours. The working adults would then still be incentivised to find a job or more hours within the 6-month time frame, but they and their children would not suffer such a severe financial disaster at the time they lose their job, because families who lose their jobs also lose this tax credit. When the job loss has resulted from a factory closing, like in Mataura, or a workplace accident, which affects thousands of New Zealanders every year, or a natural disaster, as we have seen in this country, the personal and financial strain for those hard-working families is enormous. One vote is all that those families need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EBut I must confess that these compromises I offered to Peter Dunne to meet his\u2014what I consider to be somewhat irrational\u2014needs were hard to stomach in the offering, because the Green Party believes that hard-working families are also those who care for their kids, whether in paid work or not. Hard-working parents are those who are deserving of dignity and decent treatment because they care for their kids. One vote is all that these families need. One vote is all that their children need. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u00220438ae0075a640cfbed8c0772f13a54b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220438ae0075a640cfbed8c0772f13a54b\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS (Minister of Commerce):\u003C/span\u003E Well, we know something is up, because Mr Cunliffe is growing his beard again and Mr Jones has had a fresh new haircut. The last time that happened there was some movement over on the other side. Have a look, Mr Speaker. Mr Jones has had another haircut, and Mr Cunliffe is once again growing his beard. Something is up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EOf course, I do not know what is going on in the Opposition, because a couple of weeks ago there was a manufacturing crisis, apparently. Then we showed the Opposition the numbers and it realised there was not a manufacturing crisis. Today Opposition members are talking about a supposed housing crisis, and the Acting Minister of Housing pointed out today that there are 634-odd more State houses than there were when we came in to Government in 2008. I am not sure what the next crisis is, but, apparently, I do suspect happily that it is there to try to cast a shadow or avoid the leadership crisis under David Shearer. To be fair to him, he has had a bit of a rough year. His 1 year is not quite up\u2014I think he has got 20 or so days to go\u2014but the knives are being sharpened. We watched the leader\u2019s lead-off debate at general debate time, and it was very revealing to see those who were not paying any attention whatsoever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI will move on to the coalition of the unwilling presenting its solutions recently\u2014Labour and the Greens. Future Minister of Finance, apparently, Russel Norman, will be casting aside Mr Cunliffe and casting aside Mr Parker, perhaps. Who would be the Minister of Finance under the coalition of the unwilling over there? But that team has given us some insights into Labour\u2019s deep thinking. Mr Parker, Mr Cunliffe, and Mr Norman want to fix our exchange rate. They want to fix it at a certain rate. No one has actually asked them what rate is the correct rate. No one has actually asked them how much capital should be put at risk to defend the exchange rate at a certain level and for how long. No one has asked them how much capital should be diverted from schools, hospitals, health, and superannuation to be used to defend some artificial exchange rate that they think is correct. Those questions will be asked, and they will be very revealing because, once again, those members\u2019 rhetoric and their grabbing for headlines do not actually match reality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe only other solution they have got out there that they have told us about is that they just want to print money. It is a fair enough response, I suppose, which they keep coming out with day after day when we challenge them\u2014\u201CHow will you pay for your promises?\u201D\u2014that they are just going to get the xerox out and the printing press out. What a solution! I do not know why after hundreds of years we did not think of that\u2014why standard, normal economics did not think of that. But, incidentally, there are examples around the world where they have tried that, and our Prime Minister Key pulled out some Zimbabwe money the other day to demonstrate that to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThere is no crisis. New Zealand is performing in growth statistics better than anyone else in the OECD right now\u2014better than anyone else\u2014so there is no crisis. The dream, or the nightmare, team over there want to abandon our inflation vigilance. Abandoning our inflation vigilance, which has been stable for so many years, is like throwing the sprinklers out or turning the sprinklers off because there has not been a fire in the house. It is the vigilance, the prudence, of our Public Finance Act and of our Reserve Bank, and its independence, that have served this country so well and have, essentially, created so many jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI want to quickly bring us to Hawke\u2019s Bay. Hawke\u2019s Bay has great proposals in front of it\u2014a huge storage dam to help our economy and to create jobs for our families. I challenge the Labour Party to put on record whether it supports that proposal, because its potential coalition partners are doing all they can to disrupt that proposal. That is about 3 percent or 4 percent growth for Hawke\u2019s Bay if the dam goes ahead. Eugenie Sage from the Green Party was sacked after 19 years of not having a water plan in Canterbury and is trying to disrupt the water plan of Hawke\u2019s Bay. I challenge the Labour Party to say where it stands, because Damien O\u2019Connor said when he was in the Hawke\u2019s Bay that he supported it, yet one of its candidates is now saying that they do not support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222824c0cc5b9440f39e3c4ea46ec8501f\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: What candidate? We don\u2019t have candidates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238d96bd146a24ca6a28b2b15f04d19d6\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: Former candidate, former MP Ms King. The Opposition party\u2014it says no to everything. It says no to every initiative to create jobs that grow real growth and real after-tax incomes. It says no to every Better Public Services announcement or change we try to put in place. It says no to families\u2019 aspirations of a brighter future. I am so surprised we have to fight for so many of the initiatives that we try to put in place for a much better, brighter future for all of our families in Hawke\u2019s Bay and beyond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2d6f245e8b84a00a8f45d90829afd5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2d6f245e8b84a00a8f45d90829afd5f\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E There is only one thing worse, as Oscar Wilde said, than being talked about, and that is not being talked about. All the Government can do today is talk about the Opposition, talk about the Labour Party. Actually, it is only the Opposition coming up with new ideas to deal with the very serious problems that this country is facing. The Government has no ideas. Worse than having no ideas, it is out of touch. This is the Government of Jim Callaghans\u2014the new Jim Callaghans. \u201CWhat crisis? There is no crisis.\u201D There is a crisis. There is a crisis in manufacturing. In the last 5 years 40,000 jobs have gone, and export capacity is reduced. Gone. Fewer of them. That is why we are struggling. There is a crisis in manufacturing, and this Government has got no answer to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EBut the other big crisis in this country\u2014which even Tim Groser cannot see, because he spends far too much time out of this country\u2014is in housing. The Government\u2019s own report, the Government\u2019s own Productivity Commission, said there is a crisis in housing, an affordability crisis. Housing is absolutely essential to a healthy community and a healthy life. Everybody needs a roof over their heads, and this Government has got no answer to the growing number, the thousands of people, who are increasingly finding it difficult not even to buy a house but to rent one, because the prices are going through the roof. The Government is out of touch and housing is out of reach to a growing number of New Zealanders. The issue is about affordability. It is about affordability, but also it is about access to housing\u2014to social housing, to rental housing\u2014because there has been a run down in rental stock.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EYou see, I was in New Plymouth just a few days ago with our housing spokesperson, Annette King, and we went up to the site of a Labour project there to develop housing\u2014State housing, rental housing, affordable housing. It was a project all ready to go in 2008, and no sooner did this Government get in, it shelved it. It is in an area called Discovery Place. You know, there is a song that goes along the lines of: \u201CCan we do what they do on the Discovery Channel?\u201D. Well, in New Plymouth the song is: \u201CCan you not do what they do on Discovery Place?\u201D, because it is doing absolutely nothing. It took all the houses away because it told people it was going to redevelop them. It let what housing was there run down. There are only a few tenants there. They live in substandard housing. They have no idea what is going on because nobody tells them. Nobody tells them what is going on in Discovery Place, and they need to know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWhat is the Government\u2019s answer? The Productivity Commission tells it that there is an affordability problem. The Government\u2019s own department tells it that there is a housing problem, and what is the Government\u2019s answer? Nothing. No plan. No answer. Fiddle a bit around the edges of planning. Tell the local authorities that they have got to pull up their act, but what is it doing to the local authorities? It is trying to take away their powers, because local government under this Government will have no responsibility for social issues, for broader economic issues, or anything else. What the left hand wants to do, the right hand says it is not going to do. That is the problem with this Government: no coherence, no consistency, and no plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EActually, a lot more needs to be done. It is not just about the builders; it is about those who want to get into housing too\u2014those who want to rent at an affordable level, those who want to buy at an affordable level, those people whose dreams and aspirations, young people in particular, are built on getting on the first rung on the ladder of housing, and they cannot get there. The average price of a house now in Auckland is $600,000. The average nationally is $360,000. It is impossible for people to get in a house. What is this Government\u2019s plan for housing? There is not one\u2014there is not one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThere is a lot more that we could be doing. What about intervening in the lending market? What about the State playing a role as we used to with the old State Advances Corporation? Why do we not assist young people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b3807c19b924c7f82d80bc894ce70dd\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: For goodness\u2019 sake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259ab14c6822d47e983eb71926472cc67\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Joyce says: \u201CFor goodness\u2019 sake.\u201D, because he does not want to, because those members have no plan. They will talk about the Labour Party and they will talk about the Greens and everybody else. They have to because they have got no plan of their own, because they do not want to help people. They do not want to help people. They have never cared about people who are finding it tough and who just want to get ahead. They do not want to help them; they want to help their rich mates. That is what this Government is about. That is why it does not care about housing and it does not care about the jobs people are in. It does not even see a problem in manufacturing, because that is the nature of it. That is the nature of it. It does not see a problem when there is one. More has to be done. This Government is doing nothing and this country is crying out for an action plan. A decent housing plan would create jobs and would stimulate the economy, but this Government will not do it, because it has run out of ideas, it has run out of steam, and all it can do is point the finger at other people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002260b9af9ab2a9446e8cb830cab159bdd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260b9af9ab2a9446e8cb830cab159bdd4\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E A couple of weeks ago I had cause to go to the dictionary after an interjection by David Parker on the Prime Minister, when the Prime Minister was talking about jobs in manufacturing. Mr Parker interjected that the figure that the Prime Minister was using included agriculture and therefore it somehow did not count as manufacturing. So I went to Wikipedia and I found that, indeed, manufacturing is the production of goods or services. It could be handicraft to high tech, but it is certainly not limited to steel construction. But that seems to be the attitude of a certain member from Dunedin\u2014the negative, down in the mouth, glass half-empty member for South Dunedin\u2014because when we went to Dunedin last week she issued a press release, before we had even done anything, actually, saying that Key had front to go down to Dunedin and suggest that there was no manufacturing crisis. In fact, he never said any such thing in all of that trip, but what we did do, I think, was acknowledge that there are challenges in manufacturing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut the Government does not have the luxury of focusing on just the negative things. It actually has that tough job of focusing on the positive things that are going on in the manufacturing industry. On Tuesday, with David Carter, I met with some exporters in Dunedin and also the owner of Cowell\u2019s Genuine Pavlova. This is a great little organisation in Dunedin that I claim makes the best pavlovas in the country. My colleague Craig Foss\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229af4e2c377104bb5b40376ccca257fdf\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f0ca8b41b5c4527a7d87e8626de35d4\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, my colleague Craig Foss actually disagrees with me, but I would suggest that Cowell\u2019s is the No. 1, and it would normally employ about eight people. At the moment, to manage the Christmas rush, it has 21 staff madly filling the orders, and most of those pavlovas are going to end up in Australia. Talk about selling coals to Newcastle! This great little company is now exporting pavlova to Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister and I started our trip last week at a great wee company in North Taieri, the New Zealand Honey Co. Faced with competition from bulk commodity product coming in from China, it had a choice. It could either compete, add value, or fold, and it decided to compete. It is a Deloitte Fast 50 winner from 2009 or 2010, and it is now exporting millions of dollars\u2019 worth of value-added honey products into the UK and China.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWe then went on and visited Speights Brewery, that great brewery in Dunedin. While the Canterbury earthquake rebuild posed some serious challenges for the Dunedin workforce in losing its workers, at Speights it is going the other way. There are actually workers coming down from Canterbury Draught and millions of dollars being invested in the production line at Speights Brewery, and I understand it has announced just today the takeover of Emerson\u2019s Brewery, a fantastic boutique brewery in Dunedin. That could create export opportunities. What it will certainly do is put capital into the city for those fantastic people, the Emersons, to look at other investment opportunities. And we did go to some steel manufacturing. We went to Farra\u2019s, a 140-year-old company\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266d2036389104710af785d2680b62479\u0022\u003EHon Craig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Are they busy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022640302df10a344aab1e8f759e6e4e78a\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they are. They are struggling, but they are growing in revenue, they are growing jobs, and they are growing new markets. When the PM asked them: \u201CIf the challenges faced by the Hillside workshops resulted in further job losses, would they and the engineering cluster in Dunedin be able to pick them up?\u201D, the simple answer was: \u201CAbsolutely, yes.\u201D So manufacturing is not just about steel, and certainly, in Dunedin, it is not just about what is done in Hillside Road.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut I will say this about the member for Dunedin South. She has come out in support of responsible oil and gas exploration in the southern Canterbury Bight off the coast of Dunedin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ec37c1f7e0540e8b934d5ed8b7dd785\u0022\u003EHon Craig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Really?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283692e7feaf84741b5f6c19037842777\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is not surprising that you would say \u201CReally?\u201D, because she has been very quiet about it. No ads in the paper the way the rest of the chamber of commerce members were doing, welcoming Anadarko. No bold statements that say, yes, there could be challenges at Hillside, but there are also opportunities in the city. None of that, but she has quietly said that, yes, she does support oil and gas exploration. I think she needs to be braver about that and do what the other city leaders in Dunedin and the other MPs\u2014certainly, the National MPs in the south, Jacqui Dean and myself\u2014are doing and say to Anadarko and Shell: \u201CBring it on. Explore. Do it responsibly, do it safely, but certainly contribute to the manufacturing and export opportunities that do exist in Dunedin, despite the challenges.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2213638c88a4c4bb098b962644b2c43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2213638c88a4c4bb098b962644b2c43\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E The people who created a society of equals in New Zealand would be sickened and disgusted at what sort of country we now live in. New Zealand is now a land of the haves and the have-nots. We are on the path towards creating a State-sponsored slave colony. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228b0bea453014ad8b7f26de089bdeccc\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, for goodness\u2019 sake! Ha, ha! You clown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7164ae2285c41de802a0806831e3da8\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: The number of people at the bottom of the heap is growing. The Hon Steven Joyce can smile and laugh, but the number of people at the bottom of the heap is growing. Those at the top are getting richer and richer, helped by huge tax cuts from this National Government. This is a low-wage, high-price economy. That is what National and its big business backers want. They want queues of workers standing in the cold, begging for jobs. They want a minimum wage economy and even less for the youth of this country\u2014even less than the minimum wage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EMany New Zealanders are leaving the country as the Government continues its job eradication programme. Recently, at Victoria University, some 200 students were asked the question \u201CWhat are you planning to do when you finish your degree?\u201D, and some 170 of the 200 in the group said \u201CWe\u2019re going to go and live overseas. There is no future in this country with the qualifications that we have.\u201D Is that not sad when 170 out of 200 young people feel that the future for them is not in this country? Yet National and its friends are bringing in thousands of immigrants to keep pushing down the wages\u2014advertising in the likes of the UK for workers to come to Christchurch, while we have people unemployed and while we have something like 6.8 percent unemployment. It is interesting that Tim Groser mentioned before that in Europe unemployment is at 11 percent and we are not even halfway there at 6.8 percent. Well, that particular Minister really cannot do his maths very well, because he said we were virtually half of Europe. Well, 6.8 percent is not half of 11 percent, Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThe wages at the top keep soaring, as evidenced this week in the headline \u201CRise of the $1m salaries: top boss says enough\u201D. More than 41 senior executives are getting more than $1 million in this country, many of whom are simply not worth that sort of money. The real wages at the bottom and the benefits keep falling. Rampant capitalism is now a disease, and it has infected many countries throughout the world. Greedy financiers and bankers have destroyed entire economies, many of whom have been bankers in the likes of Merrill Lynch in New York in their previous lives. The Government\u2019s own figures released today show that its tired old slash-and-burn-and-sell-out policies are not working. The tax take is down. The deficit is growing. Every day there is a sad story of another failure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s only solution is to sell our precious assets overseas and to make us a colony of China and everywhere else where the economy is controlled. This is a disaster. We cannot afford another 2 years of a National Government. After another 2 years there will be nothing left. New Zealand First asks why the Government does not take its courage in its hands and go back to ordinary New Zealanders and ask them what to do at the polls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u00223c9ed31cbd2f44f4ae21abc7fca34fc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c9ed31cbd2f44f4ae21abc7fca34fc0\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak in this general debate. I want to speak about not only National\u2019s economic plan but also the situation that we were handed in 2008 and about how we have turned it round. I want to contrast that to the Labour Opposition, which is in absolute crisis. We saw that today in that those members could not even bear listening to David Shearer, or Ian Shearer, who could not even get the name right of one of our most senior Ministers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EUnder this Government we have turned the situation round. Where inflation was running at 5.1 percent, exports had flattened out completely, Government expenditure was out of control, back-office bureaucracy was booming, and the Treasury books showed never-ending deficits, we are now in a situation where we are seeing steady increases in average after-tax wages. Inflation is lower, mortgages at $200,000 are half of what they used to be, and we have seen a creation of jobs. We have done this because we actually have an economic plan on this side of the House. We have a plan around labour market reform. We have a plan around innovation infrastructure, the Advanced Technology Institute. We have a plan around affordable housing. We have a plan around investment in broadband of $1.5 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThis side of the House has a plan, and we contrast that to the economic policy of the Labour Party, which I think can best be described as emergency management: \u201Cstop, drop, and roll\u201D. Let us have a little look at that. Labour\u2019s plan is to stop a whole lot of things that National is doing. Let us name just a few things. Labour will stop greater intensification and development of the agricultural sector. It will stop the 90-day trial period. It will stop the 3,000 jobs for The Hobbit movies. It will stop public sector reform. And then it will drop a whole lot of policies that it campaigned on in 2011. We saw that in David Shearer\u2019s foreign ownership bill. We saw that pulled. We saw the confused position around the Kapiti Expressway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ESo we have the \u201Cstop\u201D and the \u201Cdrop\u201D, and what is the final part of its economic plan? It is called \u201Croll\u201D. Anyone who has been in Copperfields lately can see that the Labour Party is completely divided. The rumour has it that the numbers are 19 to Grant Robertson and 15 to David Shearer. What does that mean, folks? It means that Rajen Prasad and Raymond Huo, if you are listening, you are the kingmakers. And we can see today that when the Opposition cannot even be bothered to listen to David Shearer\u2019s speech, when Grant has just popped by New York to see Helen, and when clauses are being inserted by random members of the Labour Party to buy the union votes, there is a serious situation. You contrast that to a Government that has serious economic policies, in terms of innovation, capital markets, and infrastructure reform and investment, to a party that is divided and, in my view, about to undertake the final part of its economic policy of \u201Cstop, drop, and roll\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThere is a clear choice for New Zealanders. You have a party that has turned things round from a dire situation of spiralling debt and a lack of investment in infrastructure, to a party that is in complete disarray, that wants to put up smoke and mirrors because it does not have any economic policy. There is a clear choice for New Zealanders. I am very proud to be a member of the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224f8cbb58ae7a4447ad8ac2d47be3e5a6\u0022\u003EAmended Answers to Oral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225a48881e356041b7a8b70a29578a92e4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u002232e16142544d435381489a2ca4388e6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232e16142544d435381489a2ca4388e6b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to clarify an answer provided on my behalf to question No. 10 today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9a060c0e4c8484aae9ffcc61c08004b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is the member seeking leave to correct an answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4014640f7124c809424c634f3862bae\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0ae7d1b1c5f41639cd27f0b6bf9ac95\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022375269062b3c4df6b34cf84a4ebfe46e\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: During an answer provided to the House today in response to a supplementary question, the Minister for Building and Construction, on my behalf, informed the House that vacant stock is about 2 percent of all Housing New Zealand Corporation stock. I want to clarify that the roughly 2 percent refers to vacant Housing New Zealand Corporation stock that is available to let. Other categories are, of course, \u201Cvacant pending development due to fire damage\u201D, \u201Cvacant under sale\u201D, \u201Cvacant under repair\u201D, and \u201Cvacant under offer\u201D. There are many in the Christchurch red zone, and outside the red zone they are clearly being rebuilt. So there are lots of reasons for vacancy, but around 2 percent at that time, which, I believe, the Minister said was about 1 July of this year, were vacant to let.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002253f33e46c89948098446f6c521ab1a1c\u0022\u003ETabling of Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b1e9792ce09d41c1bd4d0c94cd6e3b79\u0022\u003EMine Safety\u2014Summary of Public Submissions on Discussion Paper\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002270c85ddaa74f4ee6a76327387cbe4a7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270c85ddaa74f4ee6a76327387cbe4a7e\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I was going to wait until the end of the general debate, but I seek leave to table the summary of public submissions on the discussion paper Improving health and safety hazard management in the Underground Mining Industry. This used to be available on the internet, but the link is broken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00229d8517f3a5d245c3a7e2731b9a6895a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d8517f3a5d245c3a7e2731b9a6895a7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223afb385f152d47439ca8272d2f803315\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226fad6b9ded30471195490916e28ccae1\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000320\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u002206781c2a54bc4211af230b70cb46a5a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206781c2a54bc4211af230b70cb46a5a0\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E That correction from the Minister of Housing just proves how all at sea this Government is when it comes to housing and housing affordability. Every single electorate member of Parliament knows that right now the Housing New Zealand Corporation stock is dwindling not because the buildings are not there but because they are being shut up and people are being locked out of Housing New Zealand Corporation homes all up and down the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIn my own electorate we have recently had families shifted out of their homes on, frankly, spurious grounds. They have been moved into other properties\u2014that is great\u2014but that means that the people who have been desperately waiting for months and months and months to get into a Housing New Zealand Corporation home have been pushed further down the list. There is an entire block of housing that has been empty for more than 2 years. What are the Government members going to do with it? Are they going to leave it there rotting and empty? Are they going to bowl it over? Are they going to redevelop it? Nobody knows. The Government cannot answer that question, and meanwhile people go without decent housing. It is an abomination that this situation is allowed to go on. There is another site in Palmerston North\u2014I am talking about only my own city\u2014where houses were removed more than 3 years ago. What is being done to replace that housing stock? Nothing. What is being done to develop that site? Nothing. There are fewer and fewer houses available for New Zealanders up and down this country, because this Government has no plan. It cares not for the most vulnerable, who need to put a roof over their heads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer was absolutely right today when he said that this Government is ripping away the Kiwi dream of homeownership. It is part of the New Zealand way of life that people can aspire to owning their own homes, and this Government is ripping that right away from New Zealanders. The outlook looks extremely bleak because this Government has no plan. For months and months and months we waited in anticipation to see what the Government\u2019s response would be to the housing affordability crisis in New Zealand. We waited to see what its plan was. And what did it turn out to be? Free up some land, forge ahead with deregulation, and leave it to the market. That is not a plan. That is not good enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EMore deregulation is not what this country needs right now. Deregulation led to leaky homes, the grounding of the Rena, the global financial crisis, and the Pike River disaster\u2014the list goes on and on and on. It is a litany of disaster from deregulation. That is not what we need more of in this country. Do not just take my word for it. Do not take the Labour Party\u2019s word for it. In today\u2019s National Business Review, Colliers researcher Alan McMahon on the National Business Review website today said that \u201CThe land supply argument rests on the contention that developers will sell their product more cheaply if the cost to develop is reduced and there is more competition from other developers. Currently, the most commonly sold dwelling\u201D\u2014and the most commonly rented dwelling\u2014\u201C\u2026 is a three-bedroom stand-alone dwelling. But the predominant type being built for sale is a four-bedroom stand-alone dwelling.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWhy? Because that is what the developers can make their money out of. And because there is so much demand in Auckland, even though the wrong types of buildings to respond to the housing crisis are being built, there is enough of a market out there for people to buy them up. So the market has no solution. The market has no solution to the housing crisis or the affordability crisis. \u201CSingle-storey construction is cheapest \u2026\u201D says Alan McMahon, and that is why we continue to see single-storey building on the outskirts of urban centres, far from where people work, so that they have to travel long distances every day, even though that is not what we need. That is what the market will continue to deliver if we continue to rely solely on the market. And as Alan McMahon said today on the National Business Review website, \u201CDevelopers will not reduce their prices unless they have to.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIt is not for the private sector to respond to the housing affordability crisis. This is something that central government and local government have to work together on, and there has to be a plan. But as always from this Government, we see no plan, no ideas, and no desire to deal with the issues that are affecting the most vulnerable people in our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a27195ad4cdf45148ed104b6fdf657ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a27195ad4cdf45148ed104b6fdf657ae\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Those final comments from Iain Lees-Galloway were incredibly wrong. I am just so proud to be part of a National-led Government that is not getting distracted by sideshows, like the leadership struggles in the Opposition or an invented manufacturing crisis. We are just getting on with the job\u2014straight and true, on with the job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EIntegral with getting on with the job is getting our economy back on track, and we are doing that exactly. My admiration goes to Bill English as the Minister of Finance for doing just that. I just cannot think of another Minister of Finance who has had the same set of problems that he has dealt with to get our economy back on track. We are doing just that. It is getting back on track, no doubt about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EIn 2008 we inherited a rate of unemployment that had risen by almost 30,000. It was predicted that unemployment would go to 10 percent, but in actual fact we stopped it, and it has stayed at around 6.8 percent. We know that it should be lower\u2014it is still on the high side and we are not happy about that\u2014but it is forecast to drop, and that is pleasing. It is certainly a lot better than it is in some underdeveloped countries\u2014it certainly is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EWe have helped New Zealanders by growing the after-tax wage by 20 percent. That is more than double the rate of inflation. Personal income tax cuts across the board mean that the average family gains $25 per week. Three-quarters of income earners pay no more than 17.5 percent tax. We have one of the lowest inflation rates since 1999, and that means that the cost of living is increasing at the slowest rate in 12 years. That can only help families. Interest rates are at their lowest in 45 years\u2014that is unbelievable. So a family with a mortgage of $200,000 is saving about $200 a week\u2014that is massive. That is huge compared with, say, 4 years ago. A $200-a-week saving compared with 4 years ago is a massive help to that family. All rates of superannuation have increased since 2008. The married rate of superannuation has gone up by almost $200, which is 22 percent higher than in April 2008. New Zealanders are saving more. There are positive household savings rates for the first time in a decade. We have adjusted Working for Families payments by 5 percent from 1 April this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003ECreating high-paying jobs is one of the Government\u2019s top priorities. We know that when businesses feel confident, when they succeed and want to invest and expand, jobs will open up. It is not rocket science; it is that simple. When businesses have the confidence, jobs will follow. That is why the National Government is putting in the right levers to business\u2014so it can grow, have that confidence, increase its workforce, and compete successfully internationally. It is happening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EAs a country we are on the move. Our economy is growing and it is forecast to keep on growing. Despite the toughest of times\u2014the global financial crisis, the recession, and the Christchurch earthquakes\u2014we are on track. Real jobs are being created. The household labour force survey shows that almost 60,000 more Kiwis have jobs now than 2 years ago. More than 13,000 jobs were created by the 90-day trial for new employees. That is a fantastic initiative, brought through by the former Minister of Labour Kate Wilkinson. I have welcomed that wholeheartedly. It is a great policy for women who are returning to the workforce. It is a great policy for youth and for migrants, who do not have the work record but want that first step into the workforce. It is a fantastic policy, and it is here to stay. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI work in an electorate where there is a high number of migrants and refugees. Having a job is the quickest way to integrate into a new society. We know that having a job is good on so many levels. It is good for a person\u2019s well-being, self-respect, and health. It is good for families. It is good for children to have parents in work. That is why I applaud the Government\u2019s focus on creating jobs. We hear about lay-offs but not actually about the jobs being created, so I will just run through a few statistics. There are 1,000 new jobs on the Waterview motorway, and in my own electorate, around the corner, a new Warehouse is opening up and it will open up several hundred jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f749e2497fb44098a58941f19f857fa4\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: How about the prisons? Building prisons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f54f451d2fc449b1b86cdfa1683ac46a\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE\u003C/span\u003E: There are 1,000 new jobs at Wiri Prison. Thank you for reminding me\u20141,000 new jobs at Wiri Prison. That is great for Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002230d25222e75d4d128e4957dafc70f663\u0022\u003EMount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act Repeal Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f404c142ee2b41e18fa4991a9efb7d28\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00220ae6df09821b4124bfdc51806040367f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ae6df09821b4124bfdc51806040367f\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker, ka nui te mihi ki a koe, otir\u0101, t\u0101tau katoa i t\u0113nei r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker. I acknowledge you greatly and, indeed, all of us today.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3e97a0b2ced40629acafc0c831a1f4f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Kai te pai ahau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E[I am fine.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3aa5762b0b64bd7aa6e62b8f824c5e4\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: Ka pai. Ka nui te mihi ki a koe. Me huri te titiro ki runga ake nei, ki a k\u014Drua kua tae mai, e whakakanohi nei i te \u0101huatanga o Te T\u0101huna o Rangataua, \u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 k\u014Drua i hara mai ai i te r\u0101 nei, me te \u0101huatanga o ng\u0101 mate e kawe haerehia nei e t\u0101tau i te r\u0101 nei. Waiho r\u0101tau kia moe, ko k\u014Drua e whakakanohi nei i a r\u0101ua. T\u0113n\u0101 k\u014Drua, haere mai, haere mai, haere mai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Wonderful. I acknowledge you greatly. Allow me to look upwards to you two who have arrived here and are putting a face to the Rangataua Sandbank situation. Acknowledgments to you two who came and to the deaths that we bear with us today. Allow the dead to rest there. So welcome to you two, the face of those two situations, welcome, welcome, welcome here.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI move, That the Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act Repeal Bill be now read a third time. I want to firstly acknowledge the members around this House who supported the recommendation at the Business Committee that the Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act Repeal Bill does not require consideration in Committee, and that it be set down for third reading, as permissible under Standing Order 295. Coming to that decision is in itself an important endorsement of the power of community ownership. I also want to point out that from whoa to go this process has been wrapped up in 5 months, which is pretty commendable, and I acknowledge the outstanding work done by the Local Government and Environment Committee in this regard. I thank those members very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that represents a significant collaboration between Tauranga City Council, working with the relevant iwi, to have land that was confiscated returned back to the people. Of course, I refer in this case to Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki, who are present in the gallery this afternoon. I want to also acknowledge those who have not been able to come down and who may well be listening back home in Tauranga Moana. This legislation will pass through the House today as a significant milestone for the people of Tauranga Moana, and particularly Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki, who have borne the insult and the offence of actions taken 40 years ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe history we have heard during the passage of this bill takes us back to 1975, when the Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act allowed the Bay of Plenty Harbour Board the authority to transfer authority for part of the seabed to the Mount Maunganui Borough Council, which then used it for sewerage and other purposes. I have also said in the House that local leaders of Tauranga Moana at the time were very vocal in their protest and made their concerns very, very apparent. Through the submission of the Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki-a-Tamap\u0101hore Trust we learnt about the close relationship that Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki felt to Te T\u0101huna o Rangataua, also known as the Rangataua Estuary. This relationship is expressed through the many rich pepeha, whakatau\u0101k\u012B, and waiata of the people of the land, the mana whenua, and is demonstrated by the location of the marae in close proximity to the shoreline. It is now up to this House to see that this bill is passed into law, giving mana and kaitiaki back to mana whenua, and influencing greater power-sharing with M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI want to mention the insight and initiative of the Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki-a-Tamap\u0101hore Trust, which entered into the process with two key platforms as a part of its long-term and local vision. It is committed to doing what it can to support strong, healthy, and sustainable M\u0101ori communities, and, secondly, to participate in a regional workforce development plan with a view to improving M\u0101ori economic status. That vision overlaps with the ambition of the Tauranga City Council, as cited in its whakatau\u0101k\u012B: \u201CRapua te huarahi wh\u0101nui hei ara whakapiri i ng\u0101 iwi e rua i te whakaaro kotahi.\u201D\u2014seek the broad highway that will unite the two peoples towards a common goal. I have to say that the dealings between some Tauranga iwi and the Tauranga District Council have not necessarily always been of a positive flavour, but this is a sign that the times are moving to change, and, indeed, the melding of the two visions is an important sign of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIt is important to note that legislative provisions for M\u0101ori involvement at a local government level exist to a certain extent, yet the reality of how local authorities carry out the implicit balancing act required, say, by the resource management system indicates that legislative provision is not in and of itself a sufficient mechanism to protect M\u0101ori interests. It needs commitment and it needs common will, and that is what we are seeing with this particular bill: a unique collaboration between the Tauranga City Council and the Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki-a-Tamap\u0101hore Trust. This bill is the embodiment of that relationship. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI want to just contextualise this bill in Tauranga Moana, 1886-2006, a report on the post-raupatu claims published by the Waitangi Tribunal in 2010. In that report it says: \u201CThe general provisions of the Resource Management Act 1991 are Treaty-compliant. The sting is in the detail: kaitiakitanga, for example, can be narrowed to those resources where the two cultures have a common mind; relationships to w\u0101hi tapu can be weighed up against other matters and set aside; the principles of the Treaty can be taken into account and then outweighed by other criteria.\u201D I think what the Waitangi Tribunal has alluded to is that local government must do what it can to maximise participation and engagement of relevant M\u0101ori groups and representatives. A clear policy agenda on the role of M\u0101ori, who may be collectivised as, I suppose, iwi, hap\u016B, wh\u0101nau, or mana whenua, from pre-planning through to the planning and implementation phases of the system, is absolutely essential. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe Rena disaster taught us a number of lessons. There is a certain resilience, I believe, in Aotearoa when our lands are threatened by disaster. People come together for a common cause, and M\u0101ori played an important part in the clean-up and the recovery of communities following this disaster. That is a natural reaction because of the close relationship we have with Papat\u016B\u0101nuku and Tangaroa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWithin the rohe of Tauranga Moana we learnt particularly that having mana whenua involved in decision making is a major plus, as we have the resources, the know-how, and the people power to make a significant contribution. But it was at the decision-making level that it really counted. I am very pleased in this regard to be sponsoring this bill, because I really do believe that it is demonstrating an effective example of collaboration that is worked at the local authority level, and we can learn a lot of lessons from that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party believes that any growth in the formal recognition of iwi in local decision-making has come about as a result of those particular M\u0101ori groups involved having the necessary capability and capacities to maximise their own involvement at that strategic level. We are mindful that much work and collaboration are needed to implement the required changes for improved M\u0101ori involvement at a local government level. If the foundations are laid properly, the construction that stands upon these foundations will for ever remain stronger and for much longer. In the context of our country\u2019s natural resources, it is imperative that we do work together now to ensure the health and wealth of those resources into the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act Repeal Bill is establishing a new environment for the relationship based on mutual respect. We are hopeful that in establishing a new legal understanding, this bill will help to strengthen the relationship between Tauranga City Council and Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki. It also represents the vindication of the many Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki kaum\u0101tua who upheld protection of the ancestral landscape and cultural values, including the late Par\u0101one R\u0113weti, MP for Eastern M\u0101ori, and W\u012Bremu \u014Chia, chairman of the Tauranga Moana M\u0101ori Executive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFinally, for Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki, the reclamation of the foreshore and seabed, the existence of the oxidation ponds, and the discharge of effluent all represent a failure by the Crown to protect Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki and the ancestral heritage. This bill protects the p\u0101taka kai, it preserves ancient Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki urup\u0101, and it upholds the sacred respect the people hold in their w\u0101hi tapu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFor all of these reasons the M\u0101ori Party is proud to support the Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act Repeal Bill. Can I thank, as I stand, all of those from the Tauranga City Council who led this initiative with Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki people\u2014as I say, some of whom are in the gallery today. I could mention names, but I fear that I may miss people out who worked behind the scenes and they may not have their names read out. Some are, however, as I say, in the gallery, and I thank them for being here today and for coming down from Tauranga Moana. It has indeed been an honour for me to usher this bill through the House, and the M\u0101ori Party commends this bill for its passing. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022aea83a5dcc85456090a72ba0d46b9e88\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aea83a5dcc85456090a72ba0d46b9e88\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I want to begin by paying a tribute to the sponsor of this local bill, the M\u0101ori Party MP for Waiariki, Te Ururoa Flavell. It is very easy when you are dealing with natural resource issues, and particularly some of the tensions and the history with M\u0101ori, to play a game of divide and rule, and to cause tensions. Te Ururoa Flavell is a member who not just on this bill, the Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act Repeal Bill, but on others, while being a very strong advocate for his M\u0101ori constituents, is also one who is out to find solutions. I worked with him closely when dealing with the worst environmental tragedy of the Rena and want to commend both him and the local iwi of the Bay of Plenty for the constructive way in which they worked on that issue that caused huge hurt. We see exactly the same approach with this member\u2019s dealings in having this longstanding grievance over natural resource issues resolved with the repeal of the old Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe second point I wish to make is that this repeal reflects a change in attitude, quite appropriately, by New Zealand in the way in which it manages its estuaries and the more general foreshore areas on our coast. For a long part of our history we had very definitive land law that put great value on the land bits of New Zealand, but took a view of estuaries and the coast that they were worthless and treated them as such. It is a crying shame when you travel around New Zealand and you see the number of tips or landfills that were created in coastal areas. The predominant culture was that those areas of estuaries were wasteland and were not to be valued. Equally so, whenever we look at putting sewerage schemes in place, where do we put them? We put them on the coast and we put them in estuaries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIn the last 30 to 40 years there has been a significant revolution in our attitude towards our estuaries and coastal areas, seeing them as highly valued areas for recreation, for the environment, for fishing kai moana, and the like, and this repeal reflects that change of putting a greater value on our coastal and estuarine areas. I particularly say that of all the areas in which you could put landfills, for instance, or rubbish dumps, the coastal areas are actually some of the worst and cause the greatest environmental woes, and that is why it is appropriate that this old Act be repealed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to commend the cooperative way this bill was dealt with at the select committee, with Nicky Wagner as the chair of the Local Government and Environment Committee, and the submissions that we received from the local councils and local iwi. There was a consensus in the committee that Te Ururoa Flavell\u2019s bill was the right thing to do. It repeals this Act. It will improve iwi relations in the Bay of Plenty around the management of that pretty magnificent coast. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI note the only change the select committee made to the bill was to ensure that in the process we do not leave another stranded bill on the books. I also commend this bill for reducing the number of statutes. We spend a lot of time in this Parliament passing new laws. It is actually good that we review some of the old laws, and repeal them when they are no longer appropriate. This is a good bill. I again commend the member. The House should pass it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022e56b3e142afa45f1a41acb05ca7555cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e56b3e142afa45f1a41acb05ca7555cb\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Labour\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Labour has supported, and will continue to support, the Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act Repeal Bill in the name of Te Ururoa Flavell. We too once again want to congratulate him on bringing this bill to the House and on supporting the people in his area in advocating for them for the repeal of an out-of-date and unnecessary Act. I know that he has put a lot of work into it and has a lot of support from his area to bring the bill to the House, and to see its passage. It is not very often, unless you are a Minister in a Government, that you do get to see a bill in your name that then goes onto the statute book, and you are there, hopefully, for many years to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThis bill is about repealing the Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act of 1975. It was an Act that gave the Bay of Plenty Harbour Board the authority to transfer part of the seabed of Tauranga Harbour to the Mount Maunganui Borough Council, and authorise the council to undertake reclamation of that part of the harbour for sewerage and other municipal purposes. We are told that the council reclaimed less than half of the area, and the authority to undertake the reclamation of the balance was repealed by the enactment of the Foreshore and Seabed Endowment Revesting Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ESo what it actually means now is that the Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act has no substantive legal effect. In other words, we do not need it. I agree with the comments made by Nick Smith. I do not often agree with him, but I do agree that we ought to get rid of unnecessary Acts that do not serve any purpose. If Sir Geoffrey Palmer was here, he would be applauding, because one of the things that he firmly believed in was going through many of our old statutes, tidying them up, rewriting them, and getting rid of out-of-date statutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI was interested to hear of the history that surrounded this particular piece of legislation. I realised, when I listened to Te Ururoa Flavell\u2014who gave us a very comprehensive history of what had happened in this Tauranga area\u2014and also to Nanaia Mahuta and Shane Jones, that what had happened in the harbour of Tauranga is of great importance to M\u0101ori and has had great effect on M\u0101ori. They have long advocated for there to be a change in what was going on within the harbour. This is a very, very sacred area for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI thought it was interesting to hear Shane Jones\u2019 speech at the time. He did say that it is very important to acknowledge the place of iwi in this and the importance to M\u0101ori, but he said there are two things to be borne in mind: you need to be sensitive to the claims and concerns for ancestral land, but you had to bear in mind that no city, no country, and no nation can advance itself in the absence of an evolving, improving civil infrastructure, which is what will arise out of what is going on between Tauranga and iwi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ESo that collaboration that Te Ururoa Flavell talked about between iwi and local government is, I think, really important. I would like to see more of this sort of collaboration around New Zealand with local governments. I know there are many very, very good local governments that are prepared to work collaboratively and closely with M\u0101ori, and they have benefited from that. They get to make good decisions. They get to examine decisions where if they had not consulted with iwi, it could have led to greater problems for them and greater cost. But when they have involved iwi and they have collaborated and worked through issues\u2014often issues that they were not necessarily aware of; they may not have been aware of the history of an area\u2014they have found that it has been to the benefit not only of iwi but their whole local government area and the people who live in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWe do not wish to prolong this bill. We support it, we congratulate the member who has brought it here, and we wish for its speedy passage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002205b6e00280874475941185d00b52ece0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205b6e00280874475941185d00b52ece0\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I also rise, as do other members in this House, to support the third reading of the Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act Repeal Bill. I want to also congratulate the local member, the M\u0101ori Party MP for Waiariki, Te Ururoa Flavell, on bringing this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EPrevious speakers have noted how in previous years local infrastructure, particularly sewerage works, have been sited on what is now recognised as being pretty fragile and special parts of New Zealand. In my own area of the South Island, when I am flying into places like Queenstown or turning the corner into Moeraki and I go past a waste-water treatment or a sewerage treatment settling ponds site, I think, oh gosh, if we had thought about it a little harder some time ago we might have sited these facilities somewhere that was not a place that is so special to the local community, and in this case to the local iwi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ENational does support this bill at its third reading, and I also want to recognise Nicky Wagner, the chair of the Local Government and Environment Committee, and, indeed, all the members of that committee, for working in a collegial fashion on this bill. The bill, in fact, made good sense. The committee made only one small change, and that was to insert a sunset clause into it, so that we do not have such a statute left hanging around on the statute book. That was the only change we made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWe received very few submissions, but we did receive a joint submission from Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki and the Tauranga City Council. In their submission, in which they give background and context to the bill, they finally said to the committee the reasons to support the bill. So I think it is worth going back to them for their reasons as to why they support and promote this bill. Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki-a-Tamap\u0101hore Trust and the Tauranga City Council support the Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act Repeal Bill in its current form. They support it, and they told us why they support it. It was for several reasons. First of all\u2014quite a prosaic reason, I guess\u2014the Tauranga City Council has no intention to further reclaim land in Te T\u0101huna o Rangataua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESecondly, the repeal of the bill will provide some vindication, and I think that is a very important point that has been raised by a number of speakers throughout the passage of this bill. It will provide some satisfaction, I hope, and vindication for the position taken by those Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki kaum\u0101tua, and other members of the community, who protested against the original Act from the point of view that this land to them was a pretty special place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EAlthough it was needed by the Mount Maunganui Borough Council of the day, and it was taken by the borough council of the day, it was land that was very special to them, for all sorts of reasons. It was taken because it was needed, and now, of course, these many years later, not all of that land\u2014some 73.5 hectares\u2014was transferred under the original Act. The council reclaimed approximately only 23.5 hectares of that land. So the authority to reclaim the balance of the area\u2014what would that be; some 40-something hectares\u2014was revoked by subsequent legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThat happened in 1991, so the principal Act, therefore, has no legal effect. It has become redundant and, therefore, this repeal bill is before us. In repealing that original Act, I think the local iwi and council can effectively put some of the past behind them, and, as other members in this House have noted, can now have the opportunity to work cooperatively in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe third reason, which this joint submission does note, is that the repeal of the bill will help to heal past conflicts and strengthen an already positive relationship between Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki and the Tauranga City Council. How can this House argue with that? It is a good bill, it enjoys the support of the House, and I commend its passing at its third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3d199cd0ebe461c8c08a2c1a0905f5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3d199cd0ebe461c8c08a2c1a0905f5e\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. I am pleased to rise and take a short call on the Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act Repeal Bill. The Green Party, like others, supports the bill and congratulates Te Ururoa Flavell on bringing the bill to the House. The bill is going to repeal the principal 1975 Act that gave authority for the transfer of part of the bed of the Tauranga Moana, the Tauranga Harbour, to what was then the Mount Maunganui Borough Council, and what is now the Tauranga City Council, for its sewerage scheme and other municipal purposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe improvements in sewage treatment and discharge in Aotearoa New Zealand over the last 100 years are due in no small measure to iwi such as Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki and many others who have championed clean water and the health of our harbours, our rivers, and our inshore coast, and sought to safeguard these areas from the indifference of local authorities. As the Waitangi Tribunal said in its report on the Tauranga Moana claim: \u201Cfor decades, local councils regarded Tauranga Harbour as the obvious repository for sewage.\u201D It was as late as the 1950s, at Mount Maunganui, that the sewerage system was still very primitive. Sewage effluent there could end up in an open drain. Residents relied on septic tanks right through until the 1970s, with the associated risk of effluent leakage into the harbour and waterways. So it was this reclamation within the south-eastern arm of Tauranga Harbour, the Rangataua estuary, that the principal Act and this bill deal with. That was in response to the inadequacies of a growing population relying on septic tanks. So in 1972 the borough council\u2019s scheme involved this reclamation within the estuary and the construction of oxidation ponds, and effluent was proposed to be discharged directly into the estuary, until an ocean outfall was built at Omanu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt was Tauranga M\u0101ori, including the kaum\u0101tua of Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki, who strongly opposed this reclamation and the oxidation ponds because of their effects on the estuary, the destruction of a flourishing ecosystem on the tidal flats, and their whole desire to protect their ancestral landscape, their taonga of the harbour, and to protect their shellfish beds. When you read through the Waitangi Tribunal report and its description of the intense efforts that Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki made to try to protect the health of this landscape, it is very interesting to compare those efforts with the efforts of iwi now to protect the health of our beloved awa and roto, our rivers and lakes. Back in 1972 Tauranga M\u0101ori convinced the Pollution Advisory Council of the time to reclassify the harbour waters to a standard that would prevent the oxidation pond discharges, and then in the next year the classification was changed back again. There was an early claim to the Waitangi Tribunal and a whole series of appeals. The Act, which this bill repeals, cut across those local tensions and challenges and it gave the Mount Maunganui Borough Council the authority to proceed with this destructive reclamation and to construct the ponds. Although we now have wetlands that filter the discharge before it goes into the ocean, the way in which the land was taken remains enormously hurtful to Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki and, because of the hurt, to their ancestral landscape. This bill is a small step in settling the claim and recognising the hurt that was caused. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EJust as that principal Act cut across the local challenges to the Mount Maunganui Borough Council\u2019s proposed scheme, today we hear that the Minister for Primary Industries and this Government intend to change the Resource Management Act to make it much more difficult for those councils, which are belatedly trying to deal with the impacts on our rivers, aquifers, and lakes, of the heavy nutrient burden that intensive agriculture is putting on these waterways. Changing the Resource Management Act to impose a more onerous cost-benefit test on councils when they are considering policies and rules to control the impacts of agricultural intensification would be creating an obstacle to the protection of our rivers and lakes, just in the same way that the principal Act created the enormous hurt on this ancestral landscape by giving the council the authority to do this reclamation. Just as in this bill we are recognising the much greater value that we put on our estuaries and inshore coasts now, we need to better value our roto and our awa, and we need to remove that pollution burden that is happening now\u2014not because of human sewage so much, but more because of animal effluent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis bill is a step forward. I acknowledge the Tauranga City Council and the partnership that it is developing with Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki. Certainly, at the Local Government and Environment Committee the joint submission from Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki and the city council wanted this bill to repeal the Act in a timely manner, and I think the House is doing that. We are very pleased as the Green Party to support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00220d4ccf02f53345edad5d5024c0b261c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d4ccf02f53345edad5d5024c0b261c5\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora an\u014D t\u0101tou. M\u014D te w\u0101hanga tuatahi o t\u0113nei k\u014Drero, m\u0101ku t\u014D t\u0101ua Reo M\u0101ori e whakamahi kia puta ai \u014Dku whakaaro. Tautoko i te t\u016B o Te Ururoa Flavell n\u0101na i p\u012Bkau mai t\u0113nei pire hei \u0101mene m\u0101 te Whare nei. Mihi atu hoki ki a ia m\u014D tana haukerikeri i te ngako o ng\u0101 nawe kei waenga tonu i t\u0113n\u0101 hap\u016B e meinga nei, ko Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki. I te Kaharoa r\u0101tou e m\u0101takitaki ana i \u0113n\u0101 taonga \u014D r\u0101tou e pokepokengia ana n\u0101 roto i te tukunga o te para weta me te hamuti ki te moana, k\u0101tahi, ka whakakinongia haeretia w\u0101 r\u0101tou m\u0101taitai. N\u0101, me te haunga katoa. N\u0101 reira, me tino whai kupu ahau ki te tautoko i te t\u016B a Te Ururoa, ahakoa taku t\u0101t\u0101 i a ia i runga i te pouaka whakaata i te p\u014D o te Mane, me tana tangiweto i te kore n\u014Dna i pai ki \u014Dku k\u014Drero, n\u0101 reira h\u0101unga an\u014D t\u0113r\u0101. Me te mahara hoki, te whakakorikori i a t\u0101tou te ao M\u0101ori, ar\u0101 noa atu ng\u0101 moana, ng\u0101 awa, me \u0113tahi atu o ng\u0101 whenua i mua, i whakamahia w\u0113r\u0101 taonga, kia pai ai te tupu, te noho o te tangata. N\u0101, kua huri te ao i n\u0101ianei. Kua kite t\u0101tou me kaua rawa t\u0101tou e whakapirau tonu, whakakino tonu i ng\u0101 t\u0101onga i roto i ng\u0101 k\u0101inga e noho nei t\u0101tou i \u014D t\u0101tou tahataha. \u0112ngari, me m\u014Dhio te ao M\u0101ori, \u0113hara i te mea ka oti te katoa \u014D w\u0101 r\u0101tou hiahia, \u014D r\u0101tou whakaaro i te korenga o r\u0101tou e pai ki te kite i ng\u0101 taonga e whakamahia p\u0113neitia ana. He w\u0101 an\u014D, ko ng\u0101 taonga o te hapori, he nui atu, he h\u014Dhonu atu i ng\u0101 p\u0101nga o t\u0113tahi hap\u016B kotahi anakenake. \u0112ngari, kaua e waiho i te hap\u016B kia whakatahangia, me waiho r\u0101tou kia whiwhi kupu ai, kia whai reo ai \u0113ngari te mutunga, kaua t\u0101tou e akap\u014Dh\u0113h\u0113 i a t\u0101tou, e oti ng\u0101 whakaaro o t\u0113tahi w\u0101hi hap\u016B, ka mutu, ka kore oti ng\u0101 whakaaro o te wh\u0101nuitanga o te hapori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[Greetings to us once again. In respect to the first part of this address, I will express my views in our M\u0101ori language. I endorse Te Ururoa Flavell\u2019s position. He is the one who has brought this bill here for this House to affirm. I acknowledge his efforts in digging out the gist of the concerns that remain there still among that sub-tribe of Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki. They witnessed their resources at Kaharoa being polluted through the release of animal wastes and excrement into the ocean and the continual contamination upon their seafood resources and the total stench as well. Therefore, I really have to express my support for the position taken by Te Ururoa, despite the fact that I contradicted him on television on Monday night, and he was a sooky bubba because my remarks did not appeal to him, but put that to the side. We must remember as well to rouse ourselves of the M\u0101ori world to the fact that there are several oceans, rivers, and some lands out there previously where such resources were utilised to sustain the growth and lifestyle of the people. The world has changed now. We have seen that the contamination and pollution of resources in places where we are still living and nearby must be discontinued. However, even if we do not like to see resources being treated in this manner, M\u0101oridom must understand that not all they want and hope for will be met. There are times when community resources will be much greater and more extensive than the interests of one solitary sub-tribe. But the sub-tribe must never be put to one side. It must have an opportunity to speak and to be represented but at the end of it all, we must not delude ourselves into thinking that the views of one solitary sub-tribe should be dealt with at the expense of those of the greater community.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI support, along with my fellow speakers, the Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act Repeal Bill. It will be a characteristically pithy contribution, where brevity will shine through. A halo has come on the head of my senior colleague Mr Mallard upon hearing those words. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ESomewhat uncharacteristically for me, I actually agreed with the previous speaker from the Green Party, but that is another matter. We need to remind ourselves that Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b29ecb6a96349e08a5fde479224fd2c\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Me, got a halo?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022110b794d80ae4adeb0ea28e832af884b\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that my other colleague from Auckland has aspirations of being my senior colleague, but that fate awaits him. So he has organised for me to stand \u201Csoldier to soldier\u201D with the Green Party about some kaupapa in Auckland, but that is for another day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki hap\u016B were not unlike other Tauranga hap\u016B. They have watched their taonga, etc., grievously affected. Although this bill does advance the interests of a more rational approach from local government to dealing with these issues in that area, the sad reality is that those tangata whenua voices in the past have been blocked. They have been given a voice in this case, but it is a salient reminder to those of us who do advocate for our M\u0101ori causes that in many cases the overarching interests of \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D, or the broader community, will eclipse our interests as M\u0101ori, and that we win some, we lose some. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIt is good to see that my former colleague Mita Ririnui is back working with his people. He would have shown a tremendous level of interest in this. He is advancing, along with the very council we are referring to, the interests of the tangata whenua in the broader Tauranga Moana area. It is an area that is growing rapidly. Its port is in a stoush at the moment, because another hap\u016B fears that it wants to do dredging that is unnecessarily large, and they have yet to see a reasonable level of relationship come between the port and the hap\u016B. So it is a salient reminder also for all the burghers of Mount Maunganui and Tauranga that unless they address this and maintain a high-quality relationship with the tangata whenua, small in number they may be but prodigious is the drama they can develop. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b03a014578de4672ac0dec1cbe94b511\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b03a014578de4672ac0dec1cbe94b511\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I take a call on behalf of New Zealand for the third reading of the Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act Repeal Bill. As all members in the House have already said, this has the full support of all parties in the House. I am on the Local Government and Environment Committee. It was very pleasing that the committee was able to receive the few submissions that came in on this bill, which was fully supported by all members of our committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EI would like to also pass New Zealand First\u2019s congratulations to those involved, particularly to Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki in terms of their commitment to following this process through; to the member Te Ururoa Flavell on his attention to this process, as well, and ensuring that it came through the House in a prompt and speedy manner; to the local authority, the Tauranga City Council, and local people in that area on supporting and also championing this bill; and also to the people who were affected by this over 50 years, in that there were 73.5 hectares of land and sea area taken under the former Mount Maunganui borough reclamation, of which only 23.5 hectares were required to be used for their sewerage project, leaving 50 hectares basically in limbo. So it is good that this is being returned and that the repeal of this Act will ensure that those 50 hectares are taken out of that encumbrance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EI was in Tauranga last week for a couple of days. Flying in to the airport there, where you fly over Tauranga Harbour\u2014it is a most impressive harbour. It is a lovely harbour in terms of harbours within an urban area in what is quite a sizable city environment now, with Tauranga City including the former Mount Maunganui borough. It is a wonderful harbour and, therefore, it is very, very good that this bill provides for that important aspect in terms of local iwi, local hap\u016B, and the local city sorting out this piece of legislation that no longer applies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EWe are very pleased to support this bill, and we are glad that this is now the third reading and that it will go through. This is another good bill, in that the statute that will be done away with in terms of no longer being required. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022d899f8b4661843ca8b6438731be97ab3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d899f8b4661843ca8b6438731be97ab3\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to be speaking on this piece of legislation, the Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act Repeal Bill, in the third reading. Can I acknowledge Te Ururoa Flavell, M\u0101ori Party MP for Waiariki. Can I also acknowledge Nicky Wagner, the chair of the Local Government and Environment Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EAs has already been mentioned by my colleague the Hon Nick Smith, I think this House should pay tribute when a local member comes to this Parliament with a bill, because often there has been a huge amount of work, which we do not see, behind the scenes to liaise with groups\u2014in this particular instance, obviously, local iwi. We have heard right throughout the select committee process, but also in the advice from the Department of Internal Affairs on a submission by Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki, that although for some members this might seem a tidying-up of the statute book, for other members in the community, for iwi, there is actually quite a bit in this bill that is of cultural significance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to briefly touch on how much I understand, particularly when it comes to the importance to water as being of cultural significance. Obviously, we are dealing with waste water, but as a member responsible for a large part of the Hauraki Gulf I know the issues that often come up both in terms of the community but also with local iwi around recognising that cultural significance of some of our conservation areas, particularly when it comes to water. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ESo, as has already been mentioned, it is fairly straightforward. The select committee recommended that we repeal the Act, but that we also insert a new clause 5, which is a sunset clause. We know the history. The Act transferred part of the seabed of the Tauranga Harbour to the Mount Maunganui Borough Council. We know that the area authorised to be transferred under the Act was 73.5 hectares but, actually, the council reclaimed approximately only 23.5 hectares. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI again have gone back through my research, and I think Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki summed it up with the reasons that my colleague Jacqui Dean mentioned in terms of supporting this bill. I think, firstly, the Tauranga City Council has no intention to further reclaim the land. Secondly, the repeal of this Act will provide, in the term that is used in the Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki submission, vindication for some of the members of the community who did protest against the original Act. And then the third thing is around that cultural significance and the healing of the wounds of past conflicts between Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki and the Tauranga City Council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EAgain, as well, I would just mention that on this side of the House, in terms of local government we have a view that if we want to have good harmonious relationships between central government and local government, then there does need to be a greater focus on shared infrastructure and also in terms of reducing debt, so that there are better relationships in the community in general. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EJust coming back to the bill\u2014I think it has been a really collaborative process on the Local Government and Environment Committee. I think the chair has done an outstanding job. I think the local member has done a huge amount of work behind the scenes in terms of the research\u2014and we have seen it through the Department of Internal Affairs and its work on this bill. I commend this bill to the House, because I think not only does the Tauranga City Council have no intention to reclaim the land but, actually, there is a cultural significance to passing this legislation in the House. So I just end my speech by saying that I acknowledge Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki, I acknowledge the Tauranga City Council, and I acknowledge the select committee for its work on this bill. I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd76b44761804204b581cacd7bf244ef\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the\u2014is the member calling? I call the honourable member Catherine Delahunty. I understand that this is a split call, so the member will get a bell with 1 minute to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022 data-id=\u00222b641733314b4590af699f100128c818\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b641733314b4590af699f100128c818\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. I am reluctant to speak before the Hon Parekura Horomia, who has very graciously given me the call. I was wondering whether there was going to be anyone else speaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI think it is interesting that this Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act Repeal Bill is being described as a tidying-up bill. Tidying-up, in my experience, is sometimes a euphemism for some of the most profound things that we do. It is really great that we are getting to the third reading, because it is long overdue. It is a bill that everybody supports, a bill that the Local Government and Environment Committee supported unanimously, and a bill that, for once, there is no dispute over\u2014apart from the fact that it has taken so long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI think it is a bill that also symbolises the importance of the role of protest. Often those of us who have stood up and protested against things have been vilified\u2014on a regular basis, in fact\u2014but without protest by people like Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki, the changes do not stay in front of the people who have power and privilege. So it is necessary sometimes to draw a line in the sand literally over these issues, take that stand, and be vilified in order to get change. Change happens. The beast of power and the beast of authority, particularly local authority, I have to say, can move very slowly, particularly on issues to do with culture, Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and\u2014one of my passions and the Green Party\u2019s passions\u2014sewage. It is an important issue. We can put man on the moon, but we cannot deal with the most fundamental issues about how to deal with our own waste. We are great at celebrating our marvellous technological achievements, but we are still pumping a lot of human waste into water, and that, of course, is a profound cultural offence in many places in this country. In fact, the origins of this bill come from a reclamation that was about where waste water was being sited and about the creation of a cultural offence, which this bill will go a long way to deal with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E So I would like to acknowledge the select committee and Te Ururoa Flavell, but primarily the Tauranga City Council and Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki, and primarily Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki themselves for their persistent and courageous challenge, through protest, through lobbying, and eventually through dialogue and negotiation, to get to this point, to deal with what I heard was laid down a long time ago. If we are going to find solutions to the issue around sewage and waste water, we actually need to involve all the parties, particularly those whose land it is on, whose waters are affected, and whose cultural relationships have been trampled on. In the experience of the Green Party, all over the country there are iwi and hap\u016B that have for a long time asked us not to site waste water, pipelines, sewerage pipes, waste-water ponds, and all the rest of the paraphernalia of our current unsophisticated way of dealing with waste water on their sacred sites.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ESo this is progress indeed, but it is still an issue that many, many people around the country who are not in power are struggling to be heard on, because we still have those pipelines, we still have those discharge pipes, and we still have those ponds that leach into waterways and rivers. That is why you will hear not only from me but from many groups around the country constant calls for a more modern approach towards this very fundamental issue of human waste.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EThis bill is about saying that it is no longer acceptable to ignore the views of tangata whenua. So it is a Treaty issue. I would just like to point out that we often have bills in the House to do with a land settlement, and we have Te Tiriti o Waitangi bills\u2014in fact, I have heard it eloquently said in this House that we should have Tiriti o Waitangi days where we deal with those\u2014but actually Te Tiriti o Waitangi, which lives on well beyond the end of settlement, is about all of these matters. It is about water, it is about sewage, and it is about taonga katoa; it is about all of those things\u2014how we deal with those with honour and respect towards each other. And, ultimately, it is about relationships. This bill for us is about a relationship that was breached through an abusive practice and an abusive treatment not only of the environment but of the people of the place, who have the whakapapa, the ancestral whakapapa to their t\u016Brangawaewae, in terms of the way they were treated, the land was treated, and the water was treated. It is about saying that we are not going to do that any more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EThe Tauranga City Council and Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki have moved to a new era, and that is something we should support and celebrate. So I commend the bill to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022 data-id=\u002278ede58bc84c40d3a634a83eb6c97c5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278ede58bc84c40d3a634a83eb6c97c5b\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. E whakaaro atu m\u014D te pire nei, m\u014D te t\u016B o te Maunga o Mauao me me ng\u0101 awa katoa i reira me te takutai moana. E m\u014Dhio atu t\u0101tou mai r\u0101 n\u014D a te tuku tiko ki roto i te wai e k\u0101re e whakaae atu r\u0101tou Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki. E mihi kau ana ki a r\u0101tou te iwi e whaiwhai tonu atu m\u014D te take nei. E mihi kau ana ki te kaunihera, e whakahuri atu t\u014D r\u0101tou whakaaro e whakaae atu te p\u012Brangi o te hau k\u0101inga. N\u014D reira, mihi atu ki a r\u0101tou n\u0101 te mea, i roto i \u0101ku e m\u014Dhio atu t\u0101tou, e rerek\u0113 atu t\u0113r\u0101 mahi te tae atu o te paru tangata ki roto i te wai. I reira k\u0113 ng\u0101 taonga, ng\u0101 kai o t\u0101tou mai r\u0101 n\u014D. He aha ai e whakaae atu? Te tino p\u014Dh\u0113h\u0113 a te mahi nei, e te Kaiwhakahaere o te Whare; e p\u012Brangi atu te kaunihera ki te tuku atu i te whenua, i te w\u0101hi ki a r\u0101tou hei whakamahi atu i te mahi, e k\u0101re e whakaaea te katoa. N\u014D reira, e tino mihi atu ki te Whare nei, ki te kaunihera, e mahi atu i t\u014D r\u0101tou mahi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am thinking about this bill, and Mount Maunganui with all its rivers and coastal waters placed there. We know that the release of excrement into the water has been going on for a very long time and they, Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki, have never approved of it. I commend them, the people who have continued to fight this matter. I acknowledge the council, who have changed their minds and have agreed to the wishes of the local people. So I congratulate them because within me, we all know that releasing human effluent into the water is really abnormal. Our treasures and food have always been there since time immemorial. Why has it been allowed to happen? Mr Speaker of the House, this action is really perplexing; the council want to give them the land, the place for them to utilise, but it will not allow the majority. So I really commend this House, and the council, for playing their part.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EThere are two words in society that people get mixed up: tiko and teka. Tiko is about excrement; teka is about embellished fibs. Maurice Williamson is gazing at me with real concentration because sometimes a lot of it flows from over there, and we need to ensure that we can differentiate. It is difficult at times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EIt is difficult at times to differentiate between tiko and teka coming from over there. But this bill has put a surety into it. It ensures that we appreciate that excrement going into the sea is not a good thing, and it does not matter who tikos\u2014it is the same, P\u0101keh\u0101 tiko, M\u0101ori tiko. But when P\u0101keh\u0101 law tries to take away from the hauk\u0101inga more than lore, it is a bad thing, and the council needs to be recognised for their efforts in turning this legislation round. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EI know my colleague Trevor Mallard would agree with me in relation to that, even though sometimes he expounds on things in great language that are hard to differentiate. But it is important. It is important that we do not continue to dirty the water with the human water waste and allow it to carry on. God forbid if I were out there trying to get p\u0101ua or kina and something that came from Maurice Williamson\u2019s body was floating past there. That is how dastardly\u2014that is how dastardly and reprehensible this excrement is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EWe have turned a blind eye. What has come down from the bottom has passed into the waters, and it has taken the M\u0101ori people to object to it. It is great that the council has had the courage to not give the land, to not let the development go ahead, and to recognise what the tangata whenua are crying out for, because this is a great thing. They are talking representatively of what all the people care about in Tauranga. It is no good sitting in your great pastel confines, gazing out at the sea, and saying: \u201CCor, this is a beautiful sight\u201D, yet knowing that that creepy-crawly tiko is floating around in the water. That some people have used the idiom of teka to say that it is all right is not well. Maurice knows that he wants to listen to this, because he believes in it. He is really a greenie at heart. He is not the extreme right, masochist person that people think he is. He is a greenie at heart. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EThis is more than the Greens. This is about human common sense. Do not pollute the waters. Do not put your foul management out there. Is it not great that we should celebrate that a few brave M\u0101oris, who live under the gaze of their mountain Mauao, have decided to try to turn round history? This country is bad for it. Even over in P\u0113tone, even around the foreshore, you see it still coming out. So at least the M\u0101oris and the P\u0101keh\u0101s, and especially that iwi there, have stood together to defeat this k\u014Drero teka about puta te tiko. We need to do it more in this country and make sure that we do not carry on with embellished fibs\u2014that is, teka\u2014trying to ignore and deny that tiko goes into the domain that we all love and want to cherish and keep clean. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc30c4f4f29d4ba2bc5148f595d96422\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc30c4f4f29d4ba2bc5148f595d96422\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E I rise with pleasure to speak on the third reading of the Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act Repeal Bill. I would like to lead us away from that dark place where the member who has just resumed his seat, the Hon Parekura Horomia, has taken us. Thank you\u2014you know, a member and, indeed, a party well-qualified to speak at length about such matters\u2014for that lesson in tiko. But let us move on from this movement and go instead to the substance of the issue. [Interruption] Yes, we will be passionate about it, Maurice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI was on the Local Government and Environment Committee that heard the submission on this, when Colin Reeder, the chairperson, came to us on behalf of Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki-a-Tamap\u0101hore Trust, and Christine Jones, as well, the deputy chief executive on behalf of the Tauranga City Council. When they came to speak to us about it, it became very apparent why the sponsoring member for this bill, Te Ururoa Flavell, is to be commended, and I join the chorus of approval for the member of Parliament who brought this bill, because this Government is certainly in the business of repealing legislation that has no use, and this is a classic piece of that, but it is also putting to right a very great wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EAs my colleague the Hon Dr Nick Smith said earlier, in the days back in 1972 when this whole project was conceived, those were different days when we had a different attitude towards the waterways and the estuaries. We did not acknowledge or understand in the way that the tangata whenua do that these are precious places that need to be protected. Instead we treated landfill, sewage, and so forth as something that we had a right to discharge and expel into our precious waterways. I feel that we have learnt, as a nation, a lot from what Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki have told us about this, because when they talked about the kai moana and when they talked about the need to have these pristine waters preserved, they were ahead of their time in terms of the P\u0101keh\u0101 listening to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EIn 1972, when the Mount Maunganui Borough Council proposed this wastewater scheme, it did not really think too carefully about the ramifications of it\u2014the construction of the oxidation ponds. They were the ponds, of course, from where the effluent was to be discharged, and it was discharged directly into the Rangataua River. That was a very bad thing to do, and the council continued to do that for a length of time. The ocean outfall was constructed at Papamoa. That is a wonderful, pristine part of the world\u2014or it used to be. This discharge was supposedly going to occur only until the ocean outfall was constructed, but as it was always going to be a temporary measure it dragged on for rather a lot longer than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe kaum\u0101tua are to be commended for their persistence and their integrity. Many of them who are not able to be here today are to be congratulated on, and commended for, their forward thinking and their tenacious move to continue to encourage people to see that the kai moana and the waters need to be preserved and protected. I think we have all learnt a lesson. I understand that they are here in the gallery somewhere. I think this is a commendable time for you to come. Please pass on our thanks for your contribution to New Zealand having a better attitude towards our environment and the way we need to treat it. We have learnt a lot from you, and I know that it has come at a considerable cost. When I heard the submission from Colin Reeder on behalf of Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki, I understood how difficult it would have been for that fight to continue. The council was not always so open to the things that you said to them, but I think this bill is the embodiment of a better attitude and a higher tolerance that is now present between the tribe and the council, and I hope that when the Act is repealed\u2014as it will be today\u2014that will go into a brighter future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI commend you on the stand you have taken, because it took courage, it took a lot of time and effort, and I think that we as a nation have benefited from it. Certainly, in your own area, things will now be restored and returned. I hope that the repeal of this now useless piece of legislation will go some way to healing the hurt. I commend you for all the work you have done, and the sponsoring Minister of this\u2014or the sponsoring member, I should say, Te Ururoa Flavell\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dd795894769416d8918886b6e005ad0\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: Make him a Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267f96c480a7c4260ad54661f03c8d2c5\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014for bringing it here. Yes, \u201CMake the man a Minister.\u201D, said Parekura. It may happen one day. I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u00224b8660e0516f448faa539ddfc57e786b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b8660e0516f448faa539ddfc57e786b\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E It seems incumbent on me to give a brief summary of this particular bill, the Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act Repeal Bill. Something that is a matter we should all reflect on is that it is not just the role of this place to make laws and look to make changes that add value to our country but also it is the role of this place to ensure that laws that exist that have no good and have no place any longer are repealed. More law is not necessarily good for this country. More law is not necessarily good law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThis Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act Repeal Bill, now in its third reading stage, will repeal the Mount Maunganui Borough Reclamation and Empowering Act, which no longer has any legal effect. The repeal of the Act is a requirement of the Tauranga waste-water comprehensive discharge resource consent. The bill returns the legal status of the land to what it was before the Act took effect in 1975. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThere have been some interesting contributions across the House today. The Hon Parekura Horomia certainly made a contribution that I am sure raised a few eyebrows here and among the many thousands of viewers who, I am sure, were watching from home with great interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a239a3756cf41dcb4647d5042e1ec32\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re not allowed to address them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf4aaa5a7f004cbc92b7bb768ce948c6\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: The incomprehensible nature of that contribution would seek to confuse some people, but that is not uncommon coming from that side of the House, as I am sure Mr Mallard will attest to. He constantly hears it coming from both of his ears.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bee79138b5984a9cbef2d9e5551f333b\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s teka coming out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a166f9c25cf409c88af0db1864d48d3\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Teka? I am not sure we should delve back into that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003ECan I just commend Mr Flavell for bringing this bill forward and for ensuring that this piece of legislation can run its course. Can I commend the Tauranga City Council for resolving the matter in the way that it has. I am sure that the beautiful Bay of Plenty will continue to be beautiful in the face of this bill. I am happy to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022798aca87283b4fa881c7ecd54c0da205\u0022\u003ERiccarton Bush Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220490b1dead5e47098b7c44062615f499\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002222f04fa915cc44cbad35779c247edb47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222f04fa915cc44cbad35779c247edb47\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak on this last stage of the Riccarton Bush Amendment Bill. Throughout the stages\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265bf6e43449343089dd7a0479f307f5f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member must move it first, before he moves to the third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226de8a7f6df2b4dbc852c2e54e1d6ca9c\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I so move.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d6ff9bea3614031b7a41ad9c87cd09e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: And the title.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe4d59d5daaf41a9927cc5f2509afff8\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Riccarton Bush Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dec8d07fa229486fabbfcd18060d08fb\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: How long have you been here, Gerry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a7d2190dfe948f0aa8dbcda8abe05b0\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I tell you what, Parliament is one of those places where you learn something every day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215c93dbf7a5140ebb37d0acf7846a638\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: We could give you a list to start on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd9d8342c39745cca16d962171b5bf9e\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: You could give me a list, Ruth, but if you were to write out what I do not know, then you would be writing for the rest of your life and would therefore\u2014for perhaps the first time in your life\u2014be gainfully employed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ECan I just say that one of the features of this particular bill has been the speeches that members have made throughout its passage to date. Riccarton Bush is the sort of place that evokes a lot of good feelings from people, because it is unique. The story that goes with it is quite touching in many ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ERiccarton Bush is a small remnant of the podocarp forest that used to cover most of the Canterbury Plains. It exists because one of the first families to settle in Canterbury, post-European times, were the two Deans brothers James and John Deans. They came to Canterbury, having previously been in the Wairarapa, to look for some land that was suitable for a sheep farming operation. Sadly, James Deans died in a drowning accident, trying to move some sheep to shore, fairly soon after the brothers had come to Canterbury. John laboured on for about another 10 years, I think, setting up the property, before he returned to his native Scotland to marry his fianc\u00E9e, whom we know as Jane Deans but who was Jane McIlraith. They then came back to New Zealand. He caught what is described as a chill while crossing the isthmus of Panama, and died within about 6 months of them arriving back at Riccarton. So it was really Jane Deans\u2014Jane McIlraith\u2014who did such a splendid job in developing that estate over a period of time, and then her son, John Deans II, after her. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe other point that is useful to note in this is that the Deans brothers became fairly fluent in Te Reo M\u0101ori, and the lease they had is to this day recognised by Ng\u0101i Tahu as being a very genuine document. It gave them a leasehold over a radius of 6 miles from the site of Riccarton House today. It was when the European settlement was begun in a big way in 1850 that the property began to be split up, and they eventually took up some holdings in the Malvern Hills. The contribution of that family to Canterbury has been enormous, and it will continue to be so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe trust today is chaired by Charles Deans, a descendant of the family. The real gem that is there is not the splendid house, which has survived the earthquakes, nor is it the first house, which was built on the Canterbury Plains, nor the oaks that were planted from seed provided by Governor George Grey, but, in fact, the perhaps 1,000-year-old or 1,500-year-old bush that grows there today, just as it once did across most of the Canterbury Plains. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation updates several previous Acts of Parliament that have seen the trust survive since 1914, when the Deans family first gifted the bush to the city; from 1947, when the property was sold at a very reasonable rate\u2014that is, the remaining property\u2014to the city; and then, of course, through the amalgamation period of 1989, when it was put inside Christchurch City but remained as a separate trust entity. This bill protects that. The Christchurch City Council has done a great deal of work in ensuring that that does happen. My association was as a trustee and then chair of the trust for quite some years. We had a good relationship with the Christchurch City Council, which saw proposals to turn the very historic home there into a sort of wine bar and nightclub, instead of the wonderful restored home that it is today. It is a piece of Canterbury\u2019s history, a piece of Canterbury\u2019s heritage, and very well protected because of the work of the trust. So I wish the trust well in the future, commend this bill to the House, thank all MPs who have taken such an interest in it, and look forward to its passage very shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022540eaf64a3c14ee0a4bb6c3c02d8b0ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022540eaf64a3c14ee0a4bb6c3c02d8b0ef\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me a lot of pleasure to speak in support of the motion. I want to begin by acknowledging the Hon Gerry Brownlee, the member of Parliament, at the current time, for Ilam, and commend his passion for this Riccarton Bush Amendment Bill, for this area, and, indeed, for his own electorate. I wish to repeat the expression that I used in an earlier part of this debate, which is that I just wish that the Minister, the member of Parliament for Ilam, shared that same passion for heritage buildings in our city, and was able to exude the sort of amazing ability to not only bring this legislation through but ensure that it has support, I think, unanimously across the House. I wish he was able to use those skills in turning his attention to what we have been seeing in Christchurch: the cranes and the bulldozers rolling over beautiful heritage buildings, which, according to engineers\u2019 reports, could be saved. They are being demolished for lack of money and commitment and vision and leadership. I just wish the Minister would turn his attention to that. Perhaps now that this bill is reaching its final stages he might have some spare opportunities to look around our city and help preserve what is left. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge, as the Hon Nick Smith did in his prior contribution to this debate, the people who originally looked at Riccarton Bush and said that it is worthy of special protection, the people who first put this into a legislative protective measure and said that it is the sort of vision that they would like to see more of, particularly in Canterbury, at the moment. The trustees of Riccarton Bush, who prepared this bill alongside the legal services team of the Christchurch City Council, also should be acknowledged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIn the scheme of things, this bill is quite small for Parliament to consider. It is not a bill that has had hours and hours and hours of debate, or that has had hundreds of submissions. But, actually, for the people who prepared it\u2014the trustees, the legal services team, and others who are interested and supportive of the cause\u2014they certainly have put a huge amount of effort into it, and I want to acknowledge them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI also want to thank the Local Government and Environment Committee, which not only considered this bill but, quite properly, at its own effort, came to Christchurch to hear the submissions on the bill. I am very pleased that it did that. There were only two submissions heard. They were both in support, but that is not the point. The committee made the effort to come to Christchurch, and I am very pleased that it gave this bill and the member who has introduced it the respect they deserve by doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThere have been some very minor amendments made to this bill through that select committee process, and I think that is a bit of a reflection on the rigour that probably went into its preparation. It is interesting to note that alongside this bill the Local Government and Environment Committee is also looking at the changes that the current Government is pushing on to local authorities by taking out the \u201Cfour well-beings\u201D in the Local Government Act, and how upset and distressed every single local authority around the country has been at that gutting of the mandate of local authorities. I have sat at the select committee and watched in amazement at the embarrassment of National Party members as mayor after mayor after mayor has come in and complained about it. It is surprising that under the regime of a local authority, the management of a very special piece of bush is sitting alongside the gutting of what local authorities are able to do in terms of the overall economic and social well-being of their district. I wonder how this bill would fit alongside it if it was being considered in terms of the well-beings being taken away from local authorities. I am sure that that has occurred to the select committee as it has considered both of these pieces of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EBut the fact remains that this bill is going to be supported by this Parliament, and I am very pleased to have my name put alongside it. I just want to reiterate the point I made earlier that as we are watching protection, deservedly, of a very important part of Canterbury, we are at the very same time seeing the wholesale destruction of much of the heritage of our city, of our region. It is heritage that could be saved if the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery demonstrated the same sort of passion that he has demonstrated in regard to this bush. I know that he has that ability, because he has demonstrated it through this process. I actually think he has probably got the passion for those heritage buildings as well. Perhaps now he will have the time to see that done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIt is particularly frustrating when you see that about $196 million was spent on making Eden Park in Auckland a place that was fit to host the Rugby World Cup. What a great sporting event that was last year. But in Christchurch we have seen less than $10 million from the Government put into supporting the retention, making safe, and repairing of our heritage buildings. It just does not weigh up, in my view. Once those heritage buildings are lost, we cannot recapture them. We cannot suddenly recreate the decades and decades of architectural commitment that we have seen from them over that past time, let alone the emotional commitment that people have to their buildings. We have many that are going. The Lyttelton Tunnel control building is the latest one to have the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority sign-off for demolition. It is one of Peter Beaven\u2019s buildings, one that is not particularly attractive, actually, but that is not the point of architecture; it is what it represents in our time-scale of architectural design and ability and commitment in our region. That is another building that is going to be lost for the sake of just a couple of million dollars. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI am very supportive of this bill. I look forward to that vision and that time now being made by the member for the rest of the historic structures in our region, which are worthy of that same support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00227ace9559fc384623a73a73a5dd030650\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ace9559fc384623a73a73a5dd030650\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E There is much of what Ruth Dyson said about the importance of Riccarton Bush to the heritage of Christchurch and Canterbury with which I agree. That is why the Local Government and Environment Committee unanimously recommended that this Riccarton Bush Amendment Bill, in the name of the Hon Gerry Brownlee, the member of Parliament for Ilam, have broad support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI think we should at this stage of the bill\u2019s debate, in the third reading, acknowledge the huge heritage that goes with the Deans family 169 years ago in building the initial buildings that are part of that which is protected, and the step 98 years ago, back in 1914, when it was gifted for the benefit of the people of Christchurch and Canterbury. It is truly a national icon and a treasured area. This bill quite sensibly updates the governance arrangements for that Riccarton Bush area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to join with other members and acknowledge the work of the trustees of Riccarton Bush, and the work that they have put into this bill. I acknowledge that the member of Parliament for Ilam, Gerry Brownlee, is actually a former trustee of Riccarton Bush. I think the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cc5dcec80454187acab7c56e3381091\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: And former chairman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df4d87a75d2d4c478eb806ba30d8fc2c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: A chair, I am told, of Riccarton Bush. I correct that. I also want to acknowledge that the stand of kahikatea trees that is in Riccarton Bush is a reminder of the forest that once covered the bulk of the Canterbury plains. It is of huge significance as part of the natural heritage. I think that at a time when, tragically, so many Christchurch buildings have been damaged, we all are relieved that those buildings that go back to 1843 in Riccarton Bush, including the homestead, which was built in the 1850s and parts of it in 1900, have been able to survive the earthquake. On those things I agree, and there is consensus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI do, though, find some of Ruth Dyson\u2019s comments about the broader heritage issues in Christchurch, in respect of the enormous challenge for my colleague Gerry Brownlee around the earthquake recovery, a bit off beam. You see, like so many areas that we see from the Opposition, you would think that the New Zealand Government has a blank cheque. If Labour\u2019s position truly is as Ruth Dyson expresses, and that is that every heritage building in Christchurch is going to be protected and built, then I say\u2014[Interruption] I see the Greens are interjecting. Every single debate we hear in this House you literally would think that money grows on trees. In fact I say to the Green Party\u2014the Green Party actually proposed to print money. I am just pleased that the Hon Gerry Brownlee is not in that camp, that he is realistic and realises there are balancing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d04dfa339b7400da44765f7dd1597ec\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: You are wrong, wrong, wrong. Wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf5ffc7e252b4302a3efd9b6cbcfaf7a\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: You are not going to print money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b40ec69f4bf475f8af0c1919aa3e6e8\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5eb5328778348e28dc1edbecc9f2a83\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: They are not going to print money. Well, I actually specifically heard the members\u2014the leader of the party\u2014say that they are going to print money to be able to rebuild all the heritage in Christchurch. I would simply say to the Green Party, if the proposals that I have heard that every single piece of heritage in Christchurch can simply be protected by printing money are not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223616bd4090ae498d8ffa0032899d8666\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Is that what Ruth Dyson said? Is that what she said?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219a2cceb644a4bc88c5bcc74029161a5\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I was referring to the interjection from the Green Party. What I would say to Ruth Dyson, and to the member who has just interjected, is show us the money. Show us the money. If you are going to go around the people of Christchurch and say that you are going to protect\u2014and the latest we have had is the tunnel building at Lyttelton\u2014I simply challenge members opposite, show us how you are going to pay for it. The last thing the people of Christchurch and Canterbury need is the hollow promises from Labour members around heritage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to simply commend the very realistic and practical approach that Gerry Brownlee has taken around that hugely difficult issue of the heritage that we are going to protect, to making buildings safe, and the $6 billion of public money that Gerry Brownlee has secured for the people of Christchurch in the rebuild of that great city. This bill is a sensible bill, which will mean that generations of the people of Christchurch and Canterbury will be able to enjoy both the historic heritage and the natural heritage that is Riccarton Bush. I commend the local member for the work that he has done with this bill, and the trustees of Riccarton Bush, who have put the work into it, and I join with the select committee in saying this is a bill of which Parliament should be proud and that we should get on and pass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022116c996911f8419eb0fd9ac433612b7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022116c996911f8419eb0fd9ac433612b7f\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to support the Riccarton Bush Amendment Bill. It is a good bill. It is well supported by the House, and I want to thank the member Gerry Brownlee for bringing it here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00228fc3796882d441af9cfa6fe25fe2da0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fc3796882d441af9cfa6fe25fe2da0c\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party is pleased to support this bill, the Riccarton Bush Amendment Bill, but I join with my colleague Ruth Dyson, the member for Port Hills, in expressing some puzzlement over the way in which the Minister, in a very eloquent speech today, described, with a huge amount of knowledge and enthusiasm and passion, the heritage values of Riccarton Bush, the buildings there, and the forest, and yet he is the same member who called heritage buildings in Christchurch \u201Cold dungers\u201D and who, in his role as the Minister responsible for the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority, has seen the demolition of much of the heritage character of Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo what we are seeing here in this bill is the protection and the retention of Riccarton Bush, Riccarton House, and Deans Cottage, improved governance arrangements for that area, and an improved management plan regime and criteria for Riccarton Bush, but that same care and attention is not being applied to the rest of our heritage character in Christchurch. There we see a very aggressive demolition strategy by the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority. It is tragic that we do not have that same stewardship that we are showing and the Riccarton Bush Trust has shown through its trust deed and its care and stewardship of Riccarton Bush given to heritage in Christchurch, because it is not just about the cost in terms of dollars. It was the vision of the Deans family, which set aside the forest and the buildings at Deans Bush for the people of Christchurch. We need to show that same vision in protecting the character of Christchurch, which attracts visitors to the city and which is part of the city\u2019s identity, because by safeguarding that, we safeguard part of the city\u2019s economy. By destroying heritage, we create a wasteland in the city\u2014an expanse of gravel, concrete, and desolation, and a city that has no heart. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe need to show that same care that we are giving to Riccarton Bush to the remaining heritage buildings in the city. If we are talking about money, $10 million has been given to heritage buildings in Christchurch, and half of that to the Arts Centre. Worthy, yes, but we need to increase that p\u016Btea so that we can encourage owners who want to conserve their buildings, like the NG building on Madras Street, which is threatened by the authority\u2019s blueprint for the central city. There are a lot of owners who want to keep their buildings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Transport Agency needs to be encouraged to protect the Lyttelton Tunnel building. It is using the rockfall risk to say that the building must be demolished. Well, if it is rockfall, why is the State highway and the access to Lyttelton Tunnel not closed to protect people travelling on that road every day? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill, but the sentiments of the member who has sponsored it, which are very valuable, need to be reflected and carried over to the protection of our heritage in the city, so that we have a city that has character, that people want to continue to visit, and that has an identity that has been established in part through its heritage buildings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf857493c8a9455994a8aceafe44ad4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf857493c8a9455994a8aceafe44ad4e\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Deans Bush, with its remnant of kahikatea forest, and the Deans homestead since 1843 have been a very important Christchurch city asset, one of many such assets in Christchurch, that should be preserved for future generations. Its importance is in the bush area itself\u2014the last kahikatea remnant in the built-up area of the city\u2014in the house, with its Victorian wooden architecture, and, of course, in its being an important part of the history of the city, having originally been the Deans homestead. This property has been well cared for, but only since about 1990, using Christchurch City ratepayers\u2019 money, and that needs to continue. This bill, the Riccarton Bush Amendment Bill, will see that it does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EBefore that the property had been in a bad state and the bush had not been well protected. The early 1990s were the first time that the Christchurch City Council committed the adequate funding necessary for the preservation of this house and grounds, including the bush behind it. As a member of the council from 1989 to 2004, I was one of the councillors who committed voluntarily the funding necessary to make sure that the past regime of neglect all changed, and what we see now is a property that we can all be proud of, despite the current earthquake damage. During the same period I was also a member of the Canterbury Museum trust board, and that building was earthquake-strengthened during the same period, especially the 1872 wing. I recall that it was in a sad state, too. In fact, it was in such a sad state that a good sneeze, let alone an earthquake, would have brought down. So a lot of work and a lot of expense had to be expended to make sure that it was preserved against earthquakes\u2014in particular, much stronger walls. In addition, I set up and chaired a council subcommittee to save the old Government Building behind Cathedral Square. In due course it was purchased by the council for a few hundred thousand dollars. It too was strengthened against earthquakes and the sprinklers added, and then it was resold with protective covenants and is now the Heritage Christchurch hotel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EAll these buildings, including Riccarton House, survived the recent earthquakes with minor damage, in stark contrast to other Christchurch heritage buildings, and I would like to mention three of them. First of all, there is the Canterbury Provincial Council Chambers, which for many years was under the wing of the Canterbury Regional Council, which during those years did absolutely nothing whatsoever to strengthen it against earthquakes. The Anglican Cathedral in Cathedral Square, under its ownership by the Anglican Church property trustees, did very little to strengthen that building against earthquakes, even though it had been seriously damaged in previous earthquakes. Obviously, they did not really have the funds necessary for the purpose. The Arts Centre was an ongoing project for earthquake strengthening, and that came from public funds\u2014mainly Christchurch City Council funds, too. We did the work as a council on Riccarton House, the Canterbury Museum, the old Government Building, the Arts Centre, and other such heritage buildings because we knew, as citizens of Christchurch, that that work was needed, and we knew that it was valued by the people of Christchurch and that they would have it for posterity. That work has paid off, as is now evident following the earthquakes. This bill will help to ensure the ongoing maintenance of Riccarton House and Riccarton Bush. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EBut what about other Christchurch heritage buildings? The Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery has powers and the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority has powers under the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Act to ensure that buildings like Riccarton House are preserved and ultimately restored in whole or in part. Heritage issues are not just the elephant in the earthquake recovery room; they are a herd of mammoths in the room. New Zealand Governments have always been tardy at assisting with earthquake strengthening of heritage buildings, and it is now tardy about recovering and preserving those buildings most needing it. There are many of those. I have asked questions for written answer of the Minister in charge of heritage, and got a worthless, smart-alecky reply, which shows only that he should not be the Minister in charge of heritage because he clearly has not got a skerrick of interest about the subject at all. He would be better to resign. That would be the most positive thing he could do. I understand that the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority has a draft policy on heritage buildings for Christchurch, and I understand that the Minister is happy for it now to be released. But why has it not been released, Mr Brownlee? Why has that draft policy not been released? All Christchurch people want to know what the policy of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority and the Government is about these buildings. It is high time we found out from the Minister in charge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThis bill is great for Riccarton House, but what about all the others in much more urgent need of attention? In particular, what about the Christchurch Cathedral? Why is that different from Riccarton House? Gerry Brownlee has said in answer to a question for oral answer that it is a matter only for the church, but that is not correct. Like Riccarton Bush and Riccarton House, for which there is a trust board, there is also one for the cathedral. So why no action on the most important building in the city, the Christchurch Cathedral? It obviously can be preserved in whole or in part. The whole Canterbury community contributed to its construction and maintenance, including a lot of council ratepayer funding. The Minister and the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority must act now to apply the funding they have to save the cathedral and in due course to see that it is restored at least in part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI and many other Cantabrians want answers from the Minister on this, not just on Riccarton House. I and many others want to see the 2003 Act that empowers the Anglican Church property trustees and covers the cathedral to be amended, so that in return for Government funding, and in addition to insurance money, donations, and contributions from elsewhere, there would be an Act very much like the bill now under discussion covering Riccarton House, so that the cathedral could then be restored, owned in trusts for future generations, and used as a multi-faith facility and for concerts and other public events. If it works for Riccarton House, it will work for the cathedral. But instead we have heard nothing but silence from the Minister and from the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority. It is not good enough. I want to hear now, and the public wants to hear now, what is going to be done. The alternative is for the cathedral to remain in its current trust and for it to be demolished for want of funding\u2014a tragedy for Christchurch, Canterbury, and New Zealand, and an indictment on this Government and this generation as a whole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EReturning finally to the Riccarton Bush Amendment Bill now before us, I say that it should obviously be supported. Reservations that New Zealand First had when the bill was first introduced, relating to some aspects of the financial plan, have been solved with the recent amendments to clause 23(3). So with those amendments, New Zealand First is happy to support the bill, but we wait in expectation for what will be done about the real problem in Christchurch: all of those heritage buildings, most particularly the cathedral, for which we have had nothing but silence, silence, and silence, and for which action is now needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u002254b330e26c5746f7aa23471b182adb27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254b330e26c5746f7aa23471b182adb27\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E I rise with pleasure to speak to the third reading of the Riccarton Bush Amendment Bill. I have spoken in both the other readings on this bill, and I would like to add to some of the things that I have said, and to add to some of the speakers. The sponsoring member, Gerry Brownlee, has so eloquently set the scene, detailing the colonial history of this family, and I would like to concentrate more on the natural heritage that this gives us in terms of a link to Gondwanaland, which is our link with the ancient past. It is a way of preserving as an open-air plant museum, if you like, a piece of our vegetation and our native heritage that no longer exists anywhere else in this country, let alone in the world, so it must be preserved. I think that the board, in the way that this bill has been drafted and put together, will be able to its job properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ETo me, Riccarton Bush represents the very best of what the original colonial conservators did. These conservators were well ahead of their time. These were people\u2014the Deans family and, in particular, the widow, Jane\u2014who showed a leadership around plants and conservation that we can all learn from still to this day. They decided that they would use in a prudent fashion not only what was available to them to build their houses, to build the buildings that they needed to run a farm, but also to leave the remnants, because this area, as has been said, is a swampy area. It had podocarps in it. The predominant tree was the kahikatea and there was also the mighty t\u014Dtara. These are trees that were felled. They were cut down. Kahikatea itself, which is called the white pine, a Dacrycarpus, was used primarily and felled in the tens of thousands of hectares to make butter boxes, to send our butter to Europe. Although that might have been useful at the time, it was a pretty short-sighted thing to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe kahikatea, to many of us, is one of the most accessible, I suppose, of our native trees. They retain a beauty and a majesty that is perhaps more accessible than some of the kauri, for example. So when we look at the swampy land in Riccarton Bush, we look at kahikatea, which was one of the few species that would survive in such conditions. Perhaps because it was swampy, the land was left with those trees on it, but that, again, is the cleverness and the forward thinking of the family. The Deans family decided that this was something that needed to be preserved because it was of the land. I would remind people that we have seen in this country of ours a lot of trees and a lot of our native vegetation devastated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EOthers have spoken about the colonial heritage, and I am not going to dwell on that, but I am going to talk about the fossil remains of the trees in Riccarton Bush\u2014remains that date back 130 million years. This is an open-air museum that gives us a direct link to our past. It is not very big. It is only 15 acres, and it is the sole remnant of kahikatea flood plain forest, so it is a very significant piece of vegetation, not only for the people of Canterbury but also in the wider context, and, indeed, in the world context. David Bellamy, who had a series of television shows through the 1980s and 1990s, came and filmed in Riccarton Bush. He said that this was a living link with our past that must be preserved in perpetuity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EIt is not that we need people to visit us from overseas to tell us how well we are doing, but in that instance I think it did give a lot of confidence to the people of Canterbury that what they were doing, and what Riccarton Bush represented, was entirely significant, and not just to the people of Canterbury in their own area, as the people who visited there since they were children, who had enjoyed going and playing on the trunks of the trees that had been felled, and who had had a good time. Children were allowed to wander there free. It was one of the original parks that was enjoyed by people on their Sunday outings in Christchurch. But further to that, it is an entirely significant piece of vegetation in the international sense. On a programme I used to front, Maggie\u2019s Garden Show, we went back and filmed in Riccarton Bush on many occasions. Again, when you are looking for a place in New Zealand that represents something that we have lost, we come back time and again to Riccarton Bush, because it is such a precious place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI would have to say that the governance structure of the board does need assistance, and, again, I commend the sponsor of this bill, the Hon Gerry Brownlee. To update the governance arrangements is to carry on that wisdom, that leadership, that foresight that was shown by the original Deans family. These are people who are visionaries, but they need assistance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI think this cuts across four other bills. It actually brings together and vests in the land at 30 Kahu Road, Christchurch, a very significant group of powers. There are challenges that exist, really, for this board. What this bill would enable it to do is actually make some decisions about how to preserve it in the future, to safeguard it, with management practices that are bold and forward thinking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ERemoving native plant species that are not endemic to that piece of land is something that people in Christchurch have struggled with, but Diane Lucas and a lot of other landscape designers have led the charge on this, and at Riccarton Bush they are contemplating it. It would mean the removal of exotic conifers. That is a pretty contentious and controversial thing to do, and many say that it should not be done. But others say it needs to be a pristine piece of bush. So, really, native plant species need to be protected. This legislation will allow that to occur, and I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI know that it will be passed despite some of the cheaper pot-shots from the people on the other side, who, of course, cannot resist such a thing. But, basically, in the Local Government and Environment Committee there was a unanimous purpose around this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e53a384fbb8f4a448e8ad160bf71cc96\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Can you blame us? It\u2019s a hell of a target.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022886d5e6e581645dbbd7c43bb048c5205\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014which is not really echoed by the people who comment now, like Mr Twyford, who was never there. He knows nothing about it, but blathers on, as is his wont. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u00220fc6cc1f7611421480339a0a52b29496\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fc6cc1f7611421480339a0a52b29496\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. I rise to make a brief contribution in support of the Riccarton Bush Amendment Bill. May I, as the opposite and other M\u0101ori member for the area in question, firstly congratulate the member for Ilam on bringing this bill to the House. I would like to support and congratulate all of the people who have been involved in bringing this bill to the House. I would like to thank the member who has just resumed her seat, Maggie Barry, for the history lesson, and for taking us all the way back to Gondwanaland, \u201CJurassic Park\u201D, and all the ancient forests that led, as the excellent chair of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, Tau Henare, would say, to the tapestry, the bringing together, of so many rich histories that are embodied in this special area of Riccarton Bush.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022843830a9b4734297a3f7c2f6214d6b75\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: With such eloquence he should be Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecbc4af48f4040cdb927b2ad5207ef12\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE\u003C/span\u003E: Very much so. The leading candidate to be the next Speaker is the Hon Tau Henare. So there is a rich history there, and I commend this bill. It is a shame, though, that the bill is being spread over four different Acts of Parliament\u2014or is soon to be four different Acts of Parliament. We have heard members opposite talk about reducing the amount of legislation, and it would have been nice to condense this into one nice and tidy single piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcecb743110a4e3d94ae26c2066f11a7\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what it does. It gets rid of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b6da39329a74ba398cc23c1c48dde0d\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE\u003C/span\u003E: No, it does not get rid of it, unfortunately. It covers four pieces of legislation covering over 98 years. Riccarton Bush is a very special place, as we know. Its history goes back millions of years in terms of its geological and natural beauty, and its historical, and local, and M\u0101ori, and colonial history. So I look forward to seeing the passage of this bill through the House, and I commend it to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022354b7b332ba44bc6ae3d17c6eeb2467b\u0022\u003EIncome Tax (Universalisation of In-work Tax Credit) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cc2d7abb5bb74831a70a6e8e416a1cd3\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000503\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 17 October.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022 data-id=\u00223db95de20bc3485cb2bff8ec452fd9e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223db95de20bc3485cb2bff8ec452fd9e1\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a final call on this Income Tax (Universalisation of In-work Tax Credit) Amendment Bill from our side. I have had time to reflect on contributions from members opposite to this particular bill and this debate. I must say that when it comes to child poverty, members who have spoken on this bill have not displayed any compassion or understanding or empathy for the plight of poor families bringing up young children in this country. They have not done that at all. In fact, members opposite in the debate 2 weeks ago were actually quite disparaging of the plight of the poor. Effectively, they pathologised that poverty through their comments, and I think that was a pretty nasty thing to do. Government members were effectively saying that there is nothing more that can be done for the 270,000 children who live in poverty, making New Zealand\u2019s performance on this score one of the worst in the world. We are entitled to draw the conclusion that apart from punitive measures, which the Government has taken in the last 4 years, it is just not interested in this particular area. Instead of taking the opportunity to reflect on the reality of these lives of quiet desperation\u2014because that is what it is; many of these families live lives of quiet desperation\u2014Government members, instead of talking about it, have actually gone on the attack in the debate and indeed in other debates concerning this subset of the population. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u2019s contribution to this debate reached probably even lower than the lowest, which is usually reserved for Maggie Barry\u2014apart from the last speech, and I will acknowledge that. [Interruption] Well, if the cap fits, wear it. That is saying something. For David Bennett the provisions of this bill were communism. That is what he said. Although I doubt he could accurately define the concept of communism, he went on to interject that $60 per week will not make any difference to the lives of these poor families living in poverty. Clearly, David Bennett was not listening at all to what the Green members were talking about. Both Metiria Turei and Jan Logie actually gave examples of what the experience was. Metiria talked about empty lunch boxes in schoolbags\u2014$60 would go a long way. Teachers are desperately seeking funds for kids\u2019 breakfasts. There is increasing illness and kids desperately looking for food in places where animals look for food. Yet those were the disparaging comments that he was making. Jan Logie also talked about the poor being left out, not being able to go on school trips, feeling the shame of having no spare resources, lacking warm clothes, and living from week to week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003ESo this is the empathy of the members opposite for the poor in this country, the most vulnerable. For these families, Mr Bennett, $60 a week would go a very long way. Of course, it will not go a long way for him, because for him it is only a meal at a reasonable, mid-range restaurant. But for these families it makes the difference between living and really being miserable. Paul Goldsmith in his comments on the bill invoked the spectre of assistance to these families as destroying the human spirit. Which century is this guy from? The Charity Organisation Society was a long time ago. Assistance, he said, was like a narcotic. I say to Mr Goldsmith that he cannot hide from these images he created during the debate, regardless of the fact that the quote was from someone who should have known better. But by quoting these lines he associates himself with the images that this work conjures up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThis bill actually is a good bill. It really addresses the most vulnerable, and the Government shows a lack of regard. Imagine a family with very little resources bringing up young children, and young children are our future. Yet the Government is miserable enough to say that we cannot give them that\u2014they will have to get a job and will have to do something else. Where do members opposite get their knowledge from? What about the poor in Maungakiekie? What about the poor in Waitakere? What about those people? Have they not gone and seen them? Have they not talked to those families? Yet they come here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe other point I want to make is that for these children this period of development is the most important there is. If we mess up during those early years, age 1 to 2, all the research shows that they are on a downward path. But that Government and the members who spoke on this bill are quite happy for that to happen, yet they privilege their own; they privilege the rich through tax cuts. I think they have taken a miserable position, and it will come back to haunt them. They could have at least shown an appreciation and voted for this bill to go to the select committee. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u00224aa00d3aa73e4bb4a7485b3f703c5fec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224aa00d3aa73e4bb4a7485b3f703c5fec\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I want to thank all of those who have spoken in support of the Income Tax (Universalisation of the In-work Tax Credit) Amendment Bill over the last few weeks and are voting to send it to the Social Services Committee. I understand that 60 members of the House tonight will vote in favour of the bill\u2014very nearly a majority of Parliament. It is not quite enough but a good start, and better than we have seen in the past. I want to thank also all of those New Zealanders who have supported this bill in their various ways, and supported the campaign to end child poverty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe Green Party has long believed that the in-work tax credit is unjust. The reasons for keeping it in its current form are facile. Worse, they damage individual families and children by trapping them into poverty, and damage community cohesion by creating an arbitrary and unreal separation between those who work and those who rely on a benefit. It is unjustifiable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EI recently saw two graphs showing the trend of child poverty from the mid 1980s to today from both Australia and New Zealand. The New Zealand graph is unsurprising. Child poverty rose radically during the late 1980s and into the 1990s, particularly during the National Party\u2019s vicious attacks on beneficiaries. Child poverty reduced slightly in the 2000s with Working for Families, but it remains worse now than it was in the 1980s\u2014that is, a greater percentage of children now live in poverty than did in the 1980s. In Australia over exactly the same period of time, in a similar economy and culture, the rates of child poverty have continued to decline and decline. The two images of New Zealand and Australia child poverty rates are vastly different, because they tell two different stories about how children are valued in the economy by the political decision makers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIn Australia there is a comprehensive set of child-related payments of significant amounts. The payments are for the children and they apply to a family regardless of whether a person is in work or on a benefit. Australian families get something like NZ$330 a week for two children aged between 5 and 13, and more if the youngest child is under 5. If the child is newborn, families get a one-off payment of A$5,000 to help cover the costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand the same two-child family is subject to highly complex and discriminatory criteria for Working for Families. They get something like $216 a week for their children only if they satisfy hours of work criteria and are not on a benefit. If they are on a benefit, or have simply lost work, they get only $156 a week. Low-income parents with a newborn in New Zealand who do not meet the stringent requirements for paid parental leave get, at most, an extra $1,200 parental tax payment. Parents who are on a benefit get no extra financial assistance at all for their newborn babies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand families with children have been deliberately stripped of decent income support either through benefit cuts, deliberate wage-reduction policies, or by discriminatory Working for Families tax transfers that value some families over others. The name \u201Cin-work\u201D for this particular child payment is simply a justification to deny the child payment to New Zealand\u2019s poorest children. In doing so, the Government saves itself some $450 million a year. The accumulative loss of income for low-income households since 2006 is $2.5 billion. That is $2.5 billion that is money taken from the mouths of New Zealand\u2019s poorest children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThese are political decisions. Solutions to poverty are absolutely determined by political action to put children at the centre of the Government\u2019s economic decisions to value their dignity and security by guaranteeing the essentials: decent benefits, good wages, and affordable homes. No provision of services or charities can eliminate poverty; it can only help ease the worst effects, and that is desperately needed. But child poverty is a political issue. Child poverty is an economic issue. The Green Party proudly puts children at the centre of its political and economic decisions. We ask that this Parliament does the same. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225871c2abeb7744e29c59dd635aa170e1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Income Tax (Universalisation of In-work Tax Credit) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 8; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d7c3651c11d34fdd86920b222bc72588\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fee1e347527f43efae08fd7de92cae51\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00224b12290a496f4e67ab1f021b3f5faebc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b12290a496f4e67ab1f021b3f5faebc\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E As we have made a lot of progress I seek leave to rise slightly early for the dinner break.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00221e68dce39e3a400f826b3836d94a0f63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e68dce39e3a400f826b3836d94a0f63\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 5.55 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221461f40b84fc4ba4a918c4c640c963ea\u0022\u003EOaths and Declarations (Upholding the Treaty of Waitangi) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a47e142603f4a2fa5a67235729864fa\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00224cdf80dd174541fa940dcb1ba21a0073\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224cdf80dd174541fa940dcb1ba21a0073\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa. Go Obama! I am sorry. I move, That the Oaths and Declarations (Upholding the Treaty of Waitangi) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be considered by the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI came here tonight thinking that all the stars are aligned. Earlier today we got a bill in my name to restore land to the people of Tauranga Moana, Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki. Yay-ya! Just not long ago I would have been out watching Barack Obama coming to the fore to talk to the people. I knew I would then come to this House to talk about Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and for members of this House to make an affirmation about Te Tiriti o Waitangi and affirm a commitment to that document, but it may not all pan out\u2014it may not all pan out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThis bill, I think, is an extremely important bill. For the whole of the country listening in tonight\u2014at least those who are not looking at Barack Obama\u2014at least let me tell them what this important bill is all about. This bill in my name will provide the means by which any \u201Cperson taking any oath set out in statute may, in addition to the words of the oath, elect to state that they will uphold the Treaty of Waitangi.\u201D The bill will insert the optional additional words: \u201CI will uphold the Treaty of Waitangi\u201D; or \u2026 Ka whaka\u016Bngia e au te Tiriti o Waitangi.\u201D, across a range of oaths and affirmations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThese simple statements on their own reflect a much broader principle. The principle is that Te Tiriti o Waitangi is New Zealand\u2019s founding document and the Government is committed to fulfilling its obligations as a Treaty partner. So the question tonight that this bill might provoke is: how committed are the political parties around this Chamber to a vision of this nation in which Te Tiriti o Waitangi provides us with the basis for living together and creating a positive future? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAs some background, 10 years ago, in August 2002, Queen Elizabeth gave a Speech from the Throne. She stated: \u201CThe basis of constitutional government in this country is to be found in its founding document, the Treaty of Waitangi.\u201D The M\u0101ori Party considers that our collective commitment to the Treaty of Waitangi as this nation\u2019s founding document should be expressed in all oaths and declarations included within the Oaths and Declarations Act 1957. We did think that the National Party shared the same commitment. Indeed, right up front in the opening paragraphs of the relationship accord we signed in December 2011 is the statement: \u201CThe National Party and the M\u0101ori Party will act in accordance with Te Tiriti o Waitangi, the Treaty of Waitangi.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe Treaty is our country\u2019s founding document. The key political question between signing the accord a year ago and this bill today is: what has happened to cause the National Party to back down from what was considered to be a statement of honour, a statement of promise for our nationhood?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226261d1951aef43048f3e63e99daf9565\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you would get into bed with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243394f6468794555b5695771384682fb\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: We will come back to you. I could expect it from a party like New Zealand First, because it does not believe in things like New Zealand M\u0101ori teams, even though one of its family members might be the head of the New Zealand M\u0101ori Rugby Board. I could expect it. And I could expect, in a sense, reflecting on the Prime Minister\u2019s actions at the very start of getting together, that he gave the invitation to the M\u0101ori Party to join this agreement. So I ask myself what is going to happen. Let us just take a look at simple things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EUltimately, our bill is to enable all New Zealanders a simple choice to express a commitment if they wish\u2014a simple choice\u2014to uphold Te Tiriti o Waitangi. I have got to ask myself: what is the problem? What is the problem? To express this commitment, clause 5 introduces new section 4B into the principal Act, which will allow for any person taking an oath under any statute to elect, in addition to the words of the oath, to state that they will uphold the Treaty of Waitangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI want to make the point quite clearly that this is an avenue for New Zealand to elect to take up. There is no compulsion. It is entirely up to each individual. If there are 121 members coming into the Parliament of this land at the next election and if one took it up, surely it is a matter of choice, an ability to make an affirmation to Te Tiriti o Waitangi. It is entirely up to each individual to decide whether they want to elect to take up that commitment or not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI want to return to my opening statement about the significance of this bill. It is our view that Te Tiriti o Waitangi is the cornerstone of the constitution of Aotearoa. We believe that central to our maturing as a nation is a need to increase New Zealanders\u2019 exposure to, and acquisition of, sound knowledge of Te Tiriti o Waitangi and the history of our nation. So it is perfect timing\u2014almost, almost a three-peat\u2014today that this bill is going through the House at exactly the same time as a nationwide conversation is occurring about the country\u2019s constitutional arrangements. That deal was a part of our relationship accord with the National Party. Again, I ask the question: what is the problem? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThis is a conversation being spearheaded by the Constitutional Advisory Panel, which is one of the key milestones anticipated in the last term of Parliament, and is a central gain in the relationship between the M\u0101ori Party and the National Party. Again the question must be asked: what has happened over the last 12 months to cause the National Party to rethink its enthusiasm for encouraging all New Zealanders to think about our national identity, and, in particular, the crucial role that Te Tiriti o Waitangi plays in our history and our future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAs we speak right now, we know that the Constitutional Advisory Panel, chaired by Sir T\u012Bpene O\u2019Regan and Emeritus Professor John Burrows, is in a full-steam engagement strategy with a wide range of New Zealanders. In the conversation so far, on a document that the Constitutional Advisory Panel has been consulting on, it has concluded that the Treaty\u2019s accepted position as the founding document in New Zealand is the result of decades of back and forth between the iwi and the Crown. The panel goes further and makes reference to New Zealand\u2019s Government statement of support for the United Nations Declarations on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which sets out a strong preference to the influence of the Treaty of Waitangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIn that statement, the Government acknowledged that M\u0101ori hold a distinct and special relationship as the indigenous people of New Zealand, reaffirming the importance of the Treaty of Waitangi as a unique feature of indigenous rights in New Zealand. So the stage has truly been set for this bill. Indeed, we had a youth forum a couple of months ago. Therefore, I am looking forward to hearing some of the discussion. The time could never be better for exploring all the possibilities for New Zealanders to pledge allegiance to the Treaty. We see the Treaty, as I say, as a fundamental basis of our identity, not only as M\u0101ori but as a nation. People who hold public office should not, from our perspective, be deprived of recognising that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EToday in this first reading I am conscious that we in the M\u0101ori Party have finally achieved a goal that we have been pursuing for the last 8 years at least. The M\u0101ori Party is also proud that we were the first party to take the Parliamentary Oath of Allegiance in te reo rangatira. On 27 July 2004 Tariana Turia was sworn in as an MP for Te Tai Hau\u0101uru and as co-leader of the M\u0101ori Party. This is now an established part of parliamentary protocol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ETwo years on\u201419 July\u2014Dr Sharples signalled that the M\u0101ori Party would introduce a Supplementary Order Paper to include Te Tiriti o Waitangi in oaths and affirmations. That Supplementary Order Paper has now turned into a fully fledged member\u2019s bill. What it does is create an avenue for New Zealanders to declare an allegiance to Te Tiriti o Waitangi as our founding document. I will repeat that it is about a choice to honour the Treaty, to provide people with the mechanism by which they can testify their beliefs in our constitutional framework. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E The Treaty was never about division. It is about establishing a foundation for unity and diversity\u2014hence Governor Hobson\u2019s statement: \u201CHe iwi kotahi t\u0101tou.\u201D We are greatly disappointed that some parties lack the courage or the commitment to come together, united in our nationhood. We want to acknowledge all of those parties that do share a vision in which we can see the value of the Treaty and adding value to building unity in a diverse nation, helping us to acknowledge our shared past and move forward to the future. I look forward to the k\u014Drero tonight, to see exactly where everyone sits, and the opportunity to respond at the end. It is under those conditions that I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u00226ea2407be7b44727bfe9c42175cee90f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ea2407be7b44727bfe9c42175cee90f\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am torn about this bill, the Oaths and Declarations (Upholding the Treaty of Waitangi) Amendment Bill. I support absolutely and totally the thoughts, the words, and the emotion of what my colleague has put before the House. Unfortunately, the whipping system says that I cannot vote for his bill. I want to say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255ee62d508374014ac8904b6584db92e\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: We don\u2019t need to hear from you, then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea58b50410a6463ba1c32ce5a4ec0f48\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually you might not want to hear from me, but I tell you what. You had better listen, and it is for this reason. We had an opportunity to say to the world that we were different from every other nation in the world. By not doing what my colleague has suggested, even by putting it into the select committee, that says to the rest of the world one thing and only one thing\u2014that we are just the same as Canada, that we are just the same as Australia, that we are just the same as the United Kingdom, and all the other colonial, conquering nations around the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI do not want to go over the old history of who fought whom, and who won, and who lost. But at the end of the day, this country had an opportunity, this House of Representatives had an opportunity, to say to the world: \u201CYes, there are different cultures. Yes, there are different people in our nation.\u201D We could have said to the world that if you wanted to\u2014not that we are going to make you, but if you wanted to\u2014you could have sworn your allegiance on the Treaty of Waitangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EIt is a bit more personal to me than some of my colleagues across the House think it is. It was 70-odd, 80-odd years ago that my great-grandfather stood in this House and espoused the same sorts of issues that my colleague Te Ururoa Flavell has spoken about tonight. So it is with a heavy heart that I have to inform my brother, taku tuakana, that I will be voting against this bill. I will be voting against a bill that I think is non-violent, it does not threaten anybody, and it does not tell anybody what to do. I will be voting against a bill that gives the opportunity for New Zealanders to be able to feel unique in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a2c54835b74469aa5af5ed9a02b2df2\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: Cross the floor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226606816ca58c4010bcfb617d193af587\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I would like to cross the floor. But if we have that sort of scenario going on all the time, then you do not get stable government, unfortunately. Like I said, it is with a heavy heart that I inform my mate that I will not be voting for this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003ETwo weeks ago I was in front of some other members of Parliament from around the world, up in Quebec, where I spoke about indigenous peoples\u2019 rights, and indigenous people and their culture and their language. If this country does not have a shared vision, does not have a shared goal, then none of us, none of our mokopuna, none of our kids yet to come, can share in the spoils of that shared vision. We are always going to be on one side of the fence, and somebody else is going to be on the other side of the fence, and we are always going to be arguing about what our vision, what our shared vision, should be. We should at least have taken the opportunity tonight to send this bill to a select committee where we could have heard some of the arguments. In fact, I will be out there and say that sometimes I think all members\u2019 bills should go directly to a select committee, but that would be a bit of a hard call. It would be a bit messy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI will be voting against this bill for one reason, and one reason only, and that is the system that we have. I know my colleagues across the House, and especially in the Labour Party, if they were in our shoes and they were voting against a bill, it would work out the same. This is not about me having more morals or principles than the other side. It is actually just a matter of following what the process is. People get whipped and people follow their whip.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220c22215ae2f446fba710a3af18e056a\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Good on you for owning up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c656a130072240909cca49d999c231d5\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely! I own up to it. I do not like it, but I signed up for the National Party knowing full well that I might have to vote for something that I did not like. I think a lot of people around this House have that conundrum as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffd1276ed9e840e5aa06b36c8e4c3f18\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: You more often than not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c37ffa9bd0ae4880b31e065b78c3a876\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, no, not really; not really. When it comes to matters of this magnitude, when we are talking about the soul and the humanity of our nation, then not really. I am yet to meet a member of Parliament who does not feel like me when we are discussing issues of this nature. I want to say sorry to my colleague, my erstwhile colleague, on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee and to the M\u0101ori Party as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThis bill is not some sort of procedural motion that we are talking about. We are not talking about some minor procedural motion. We are talking about something that goes to the heart of the identification of this country. Walk the streets of any other country in the world and ask other people: \u201CWhere do you think I come from?\u201D. They might say England, they might say Australia, they might say Canada, or they might say the best parts of America. But I bet you my last dollar that without too much thinking, they would not be able to say New Zealand. Why? Because we do not have an identifier. We do not have an identifier that puts the nation out there. I am not talking about only M\u0101ori. I love the fact that my ancestors fought each other for this land, and both of them won. I love the fact that this country should be patting itself on the back, in terms of its treatment of indigenous people. OK, we have got a long way to go. You shrug your shoulders, but look around the world and see how far we have come as a nation. And we have come far\u2014we have come far. I do not mind getting up and patting myself on the back, and patting this nation on the back. Of course we have got issues\u2014every nation has got issues\u2014but, boy, I feel glad that I live in this country where I can send my kids to a total immersion school, and where I can get up and speak my own language in the House of Representatives. There are three languages in the House of Representatives. What a great democracy. What a great place. And we could have gone just that little bit further tonight by saying that if you want to, you could swear allegiance not only to the Queen, not only to the nation, but also to the founding document of our nation, the Treaty of Waitangi. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022 data-id=\u0022a52fdd66757348fd8785c229df9226e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a52fdd66757348fd8785c229df9226e8\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E E mihi kau ana ki a koe m\u014D t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero e te whanaunga, e Tau. E rekareka atu ki te rongo i te taumahatanga. E Te Ururoa, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koe m\u014D t\u014D kaha ki te whai atu \u0101 muri i te kawenata m\u014D t\u0101tou mai i Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E[To the relative Tau, I acknowledge you for that statement. It was really pleasing to hear how serious it is for you. Well done, Te Ururoa. Your efforts to follow this up as an agreement for us here in New Zealand are appreciated.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EI have 5 minutes. I could talk for 5 hours on this matter; it is something dear to my heart. I revel, having just come back from Australia and seeing indigenous people who struggle and do not have the base\u2014and I can accept some of the things that my learned friend Tau Henare has just finished saying\u2014but we can do better. This is a real test for this country. It is fascinating that we preach nationhood, but we dare not play the full game, and that we do the haka as the All Blacks and we will play that game, but we will not dare let the indigenous people have their say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EI want to commend Ururoa Flavell for this bill, the Oaths and Declarations (Upholding the Treaty of Waitangi) Amendment Bill, and for recognising that it is something that is dear to our people\u2019s hearts\u2014the tangata whenua of this land. It was 172 years ago when the ancestors of people in this room promised unification, promised nationhood, promised joining together, promised a better life and rights recognised. What a whole lot of teka; that is what is was. And then we get to this stage, and there is no compulsion in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EThis is not like these new ideas that he has on the warrant of fitness. It is not like a whole lot of stuff that is coming out of the Government benches. There is no compulsion in this; it is choice. We have gone so crazy that we want to even deny choice. That is really out of the fear of the unknown. When people do not know about certain things, they play the best card that they have inherited. I think it comes through their genes\u2014that we have been conquered and things have happened in the past\u2014but you have to have a smarter brain to recognise that internationally indigeneity has a real place in people\u2019s hearts, and that in this country it is growing, because of not just the tangata whenua but also the rest of the cultures that we have mixing into our nationality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EIt is fascinating that I am seeing a real rev up by this Government and other organisations taking trade visits overseas and using M\u0101ori as the front end to that. Whether it is to sing a song or throw a taiaha around, they are using it. So you cannot deny, even in the macro, in the economic sense, that M\u0101ori are starting to utilise their assets better. I really wonder why some people are struggling to support this simple and decent bill. It is the way forward. It is about nationhood. It is not just about standing under the Union Jack, because that stance was forced upon us by other people. We recognise all of that, and we have taken the benefit out of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EWe will be supporting this bill, and it is certainly important to say that, because at the end of the day there are some things that politicians should learn\u2014that they do not use their vote because it may make the majority happy and vote for them. If you want to live in a decent society, if you want our children to revel in and understand what nationhood means, then surely to goodness, simple support for this non-compulsory bill is something that could happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori are great people. It has been 172 years since the Treaty was signed. It is fixed in other areas. We have a Treaty commission. We have a Treaty process, and we are resurrecting and putting right what was wrong. Why cannot we have this bill recognised because it is about choice? A lot of M\u0101oris go to the churches that they never knew anything about. They swear on the Bible, because they believe it is good for them. Somebody else taught them that. This is a learning curve and a teaching curve for the rest of the nation who want to stick their heads in the sand. I do feel sorry for people like Tau Henare, who really should follow his great-grandfather\u2019s efforts, and I would suggest to you that it would be good to cross the floor and vote in favour\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229852afd4a66a478c86d36cd595772c9d\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Your time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002244af28213da64affab5b21bff4c8111a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244af28213da64affab5b21bff4c8111a\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to rise and offer a contribution in the debate on the Oaths and Declarations (Upholding the Treaty of Waitangi) Amendment Bill in this first reading. I want to start by acknowledging my parliamentary colleague Te Ururoa Flavell for bringing this bill to the House. Earlier today he successfully\u2014unanimously, actually\u2014had a bill passed in this House, so I do want to acknowledge his efforts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI want to say, though, that one of the reasons that National will not be supporting the bill today is that I believe in this instance the M\u0101ori Party has the cart before the horse. I want to explain that, because there has been a conversation tonight about this being about national identity. Well, the appropriate place for a conversation around national identity is with each and every New Zealander, and that is a conversation we are having as a result of the partnership with the M\u0101ori Party, with the constitutional review. The place of the Treaty of Waitangi is a key part of the constitutional review. So I think it is appropriate that we do not jump ahead too quickly in this instance. I know that this idea seems like quite a simple idea, a simple fix to a problem, but actually it is a much broader conversation around our national identity and around the place of the Treaty of Waitangi in our overall constitution. That is not something that should be rushed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI recently spoke in Australia\u2014I jointly presented with Charles Chauvel\u2014on the constitutional review that we are undertaking. It is so, so important that New Zealanders engage in this conversation and that we do it properly and we do it fully. So the aspect of the constitution is the first sort of area where this bill creates some problems. I am somewhat frustrated at the suggestion that the National Party choosing not to support this bill indicates a wider issue in terms of our commitment. For anyone who has heard the speeches in this House from members all across the Chamber, but in particular from the National Party, and the commitment we have to settling Treaty settlements, I think that that is quite an unfair comment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EWe are progressing settlements because we know\u2014because we know\u2014it is the hurt, and the injustice, and the disagreements of the past that continue to divide this nation. We are the party that is driving ahead at a pace to get those Treaty settlements resolved. I very firmly believe that it is the most significant thing we can do as a country to bring us to the place of unity. Some of my colleagues have spoken about challenges and the fact that we have more progress to make. Well, our priority should be Treaty settlements. Our priority, Mr Flavell, should be the constitutional review. It should be engaging each and every New Zealander in this conversation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EAlthough the idea in the bill seems like a good one, I think the impacts of it are too\u2014there are some other complications. I want to raise a couple of them. One, of course, is the issue of consistency. The bill talks about oaths and declarations of some types, but has not actually explained each opportunity that an oath is taken in New Zealand. So, for example, in terms of the Citizenship Act, is it expected through this bill that also new citizens would take an oath to the Treaty of Waitangi? What about the Ombudsmen Act? So there is an issue of inconsistency in the bill as it is drafted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e9605313bf94059877456273aea15e0\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Optional, Louise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221db125f1b35f44cc8718bad3c78db682\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: The member Te Ururoa Flavell, who has brought this bill to the House, quite rightly has said that it is optional, but the fact that the oath is optional creates other complications. What does it mean if somebody takes an oath to the Treaty of Waitangi and someone does not, and yet they are doing the same job? So the inconsistency in it potentially creates some other problems where someone holding the same office has made one oath and another has not. So you are getting an inconsistency with the same people holding office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe spirit of the bill I applaud, and I commend the member for bringing it to the House, but actually the commitment is having a much broader conversation about the national identity and the Treaty\u2019s place in the constitution. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb3dbcffbc374e3b9204cd2708d83db4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb3dbcffbc374e3b9204cd2708d83db4\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. I would first like to acknowledge the leader of the Oaths and Declarations (Upholding the Treaty of Waitangi) Amendment Bill, Te Ururoa Flavell, the M\u0101ori Party, those who have spoken in favour of the bill, and, indeed, those who have spoken against it, because Te Tiriti o Waitangi embraces all of us. It is just unfortunate that some parties in this House cannot embrace the concept of choice, which is kind of interesting because the National Party has always gone on and on about choice since I have been in this House. Here is an opportunity to create more choice for the citizens of Aotearoa New Zealand, and National is not going to support it, which is incredibly disappointing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EHowever, I want to say something about this bill because the Green Party is very, very happy to support it. We believe that if it could be passed to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, it would herald a new age of respect for Te Tiriti o Waitangi not only for M\u0101ori but also for tangata Tiriti, for P\u0101keh\u0101 like me who tried when we came into this House to swear and affirm on both Te Tiriti o Waitangi and the other oath\u2014and I was not the only one. This bill reflects what many of us have held in our hearts for some time, and we are grateful to the member who has brought it, because when we came here we wanted to take the oath based on an affirmation of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. It was not that we were rejecting anything else; it was what we wanted to affirm as a critical part of our nationhood. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EThis bill is very generous and is designed with key words like \u201Callow\u201D, \u201Cin addition\u201D, and \u201Cmay\u201D. There is nothing in this bill that uses compulsion or force or denies the respect that others may wish to pay to the other oath, which is the normal one at this time. It is generous, it creates space and opportunity, it is gentle and offers choice, and it is fundamentally positive and symbolic about an issue that we all claim to recognise symbolically in recognising the founding document, Te Tiriti o Waitangi. And what does it commit us to? Is that the real fear? It commits us to recognising what Te Tiriti o Waitangi stands for, which is a great opportunity for P\u0101keh\u0101 and tauiwi katoa because, as the Hon Tau Henare said, it is our unique identity. It is what makes us wonderful in the world, and it is what makes us hold our heads up and say that we are not at war. Since 1840, when Te Tiriti o Waitangi was signed, it has been a commitment to negotiation and dialogue. I do not know what people would prefer, but I know that the Green Party would prefer that we were not at war, and that what happened in 1840 was a declaration of peace and a declaration for continuing dialogue and negotiation. Otherwise, what have we got as a nation? We have not got anything. What we have got is unfinished business and unfinished battles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ETe Tiriti o Waitangi, the M\u0101ori text\u2014and that must be recognised. There is a principle called contra proferentem that recognises the M\u0101ori text\u2014I always thought it sounded like \u201Ccontraception\u201D; I was not quite sure what it was\u2014and it is an international way in which we recognise indigenous language texts. That is what Te Tiriti stands for. What this bill would do would be to allow some of us who have learnt about this\u2014not sufficiently through our education system, because it has failed to educate successive generations on this issue\u2014to uphold what we truly believe is an opportunity for harmony, peace, and justice, not only in this Whare but in every place where New Zealanders or new citizens or representatives take an oath or make a declaration. It is not threatening the foundation of the Crown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EMany people are afraid that if we recognise Te Tiriti in this way, it might somehow undermine the Crown, and in no way does it do that. Many people who believe in republicanism think that we do not need the Crown, but, actually, what Te Tiriti does is far more fundamental. What is disturbing about the rejection of this opportunity is that we should be applying this to all our work, because it is a spirit that enriches us all as a nation, and if we believe in the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which the National Government upheld in theory, it has to be seen in practice. It has to be implemented in reality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI have a bill that complements my colleague\u2019s\u2014it is the Citizenship (Acknowledgement of Te Tiriti o Waitangi) Amendment Bill, which is in the ballot\u2014which would ensure that all new citizens, when they come to the ceremony, have an opportunity to learn about Te Tiriti o Waitangi and to understand whose rohe they are in and who are the tangata whenua. It would allow mayors to decide how they do it and to actually acknowledge that. My bill is complementary to my colleague\u2019s because, rather than wait for the constitutional debate to reach whatever conclusion, every day and in every way we need to stand up for Te Tiriti. This opportunity should be upheld, and I want to honour Te Ururoa Flavell tonight. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d92a2c2438e0441ab292192af40d7556\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d92a2c2438e0441ab292192af40d7556\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First opposes the Oaths and Declarations (Upholding the Treaty of Waitangi) Amendment Bill. We think it is a piece of legislative nonsense. It would make no substantive contribution to actually upholding the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi. New Zealand First understands the sentiments and why the M\u0101ori Party has proposed this, but we suspect that it is not much more than a political stunt. It is not a bill to be taken seriously, and we do not think for a moment that many New Zealanders would. However, New Zealand First does believe that the Treaty itself certainly needs to be taken seriously and performed as a contract by the Crown. This bill will make absolutely no contribution to that concept whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI read the purpose of the bill and it states: \u201CThe purpose of this Act is to: (a) provide for any person taking a statutory oath to, in addition to repeating the words of the oath, elect to state that they will uphold the Treaty of Waitangi;\u201D. The first thing that you note about that is that it is in addition to the oath. So this is something in addition to the oath. What is in addition to the oath? It is an election to state. So there is something different between the words of an oath and a simple statement. Is that intentional? It certainly is, we think. What it means is that it is something less than the oath itself, and that does not seem to be appropriate in an oath. People can of course, and do, make statements of support any time they wish, and so they should, but there is absolutely not one iota of reason why such a statement is appropriate in this particular oath.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe oath is about upholding the laws of New Zealand, and it is about loyalty to the head of State of New Zealand as a whole. It has got nothing whatsoever to do with contracts such as the Treaty of Waitangi or any other document. The point is this: in the law the Treaty is a contract between the Crown and the united tribes of New Zealand. So you would have to ask, as a result of that, how an individual person can uphold the Treaty when they are not individually a part of it anyway. It is utterly illogical for a person to swear an oath to uphold something that they have no power themselves to do. It is utterly ridiculous to put in such a thing when swearing an oath of this kind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EAnother point is this: it would be utterly meaningless for a person to do so, because we do not even know what these principles of the Treaty are. We had one judge, Justice Cooke, who defined some principles, then we had Sir Geoffrey Palmer, while he was Prime Minister, define another five principles, but nobody yet knows which of these are\u2014or whether others are\u2014the principles of Waitangi. How can an individual in that circumstance swear to, or make a statement to\u2014and that is what they would actually be doing\u2014uphold the principles of the Treaty when they do not even know what they are? So in practice it is unacceptable to add this even as an election. If it was appropriate to do so, then why would it not also be appropriate to state that a person wished to uphold the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, the Magna Carta, the United Nations Charter, or even the constitution and rules of the Waipukurau rugby club or any other thing that somebody held dear?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EFinally, this bill would degrade the oath itself. It would mean that we would be introducing extraneous and inappropriate words to the oath. It would take attention away from what the oath is really about, and we think it would be disrespectful to New Zealand and to the head of State. This bill should not pass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0a286d76e8d41aeb45008a8cf759018\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0a286d76e8d41aeb45008a8cf759018\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Ka whaka\u016Bngia e au te Tiriti o Waitangi. What is so hard about that? What is so hard about having that choice as a member of Parliament, elected by your constituents? In particular, I want to draw reference to my constituency of Manurewa, which has 28 percent M\u0101ori. What is so wrong about me being able to make an oath to uphold the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EIn fact, being a member of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, I want to acknowledge its chair, the Hon Tau Henare, I want to acknowledge Te Ururoa Flavell, I want to acknowledge my colleague the Hon Parekura Horomia, I want to acknowledge Rino Tirikatene, and I want to acknowledge Louise Upston. We have just come back from a trip to Alice Springs. In Alice Springs we talked a lot about indigenous issues, about indigenous peoples, and about the status of indigenous peoples not only in their country but also in our country. We have a M\u0101ori Affairs Committee that actually acknowledges that we as the indigenous peoples of this country have a very special and sacred place within the institution of Parliament. Where does that come from? Where does that authority derive from? I would say the Declaration of Independence in the first instance, which was our assertion of sovereignty. M\u0101ori are the first sovereigns of this country. We cannot change our history. The reality is that we have a Treaty of Waitangi, and, as a M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, we are working to address the grievances of the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ETo come into this House and say that there is no status of the Treaty of Waitangi is ridiculous. It is ridiculous, given that we have a Minister of the Crown\u2014the Hon Chris Finlayson\u2014who is working through an incredible process of truth and reconciliation, and that we can have a process that so far has expended $1 billion of Crown money to say sorry to our indigenous people. To then say that it is irrelevant and it is not already a constitutional document of this country actually is pretty immature, I believe, in terms of the debate we are having tonight. What I want to say is that Matthew Palmer, in his book The Treaty of Waitangi in New Zealand\u2019s Law and Constitution, has said that \u201Cthe Treaty of Waitangi is best understood as representing an explicit commitment to the health of the relationships between the Crown, Maori, and other New Zealanders.\u201D I believe that Te Ururoa Flavell\u2019s Oaths and Declarations (Upholding the Treaty of Waitangi) Amendment Bill enables us to actually realise this explicit commitment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI do not see anything wrong with us as members of Parliament being able to swear an oath on the Treaty of Waitangi, our founding document, when we have the honour of representing the people of New Zealand in this House. I do not understand why there is such resistance and why we have to wait for a constitutional review process to take place before some of us, as adults, as people who recognise and understand the history of this country and who want to acknowledge that the Treaty of Waitangi is the founding document of Aotearoa New Zealand, can do that. And we do want to uphold. What does that mean? We want to maintain, we want to affirm, we want to defend, and we want to give moral support and inspiration and lift up the Treaty of Waitangi to its rightful place. So I am here in support of this bill. I want to congratulate and thank my colleague Te Ururoa Flavell for bringing this bill to the House and for providing us as members of Parliament with an opportunity to actually recognise that we have a founding document of Aotearoa New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI also want to highlight that earlier this year there were 50 of the country\u2019s brightest young people involved in the development of a draft constitution. They were law, history, and communications students. There was a forum facilitated by Dean Knight from Victoria University Law School. The group made it very clear that the Treaty of Waitangi should be central to a new constitution. There is a recognition already in our country about the status of the Treaty of Waitangi, and all this bill seeks to do is to enable individual members of Parliament to affirm and to commit to upholding it. I note that the students wanted the constitution to be more visible, modern, bold, and unique to New Zealand. Evident was the emphasis on Treaty values. They also wanted to rename the Prime Minister as Tumuaki. I have risen to support this bill. I want to again congratulate my colleague Te Ururoa Flavell on bringing it to this House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u00222d496fd90a8f4ae49b96ad461a380745\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d496fd90a8f4ae49b96ad461a380745\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E This is the first time I have had the opportunity to speak in this House on a member\u2019s bill. It has taken me nearly a year to get this far, so it is a pleasure to be able to get up and speak on the Oaths and Declarations (Upholding the Treaty of Waitangi) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EWhen doing a little research on this, I went back to the original Oaths and Declarations Act 1957. When you go back to the original Act and then you read the member\u2019s bill in Te Ururoa Flavell\u2019s name, it really simplifies something that is quite complex legislation. I think that to move to a change like this needs a lot more discussion and a lot more planning than has gone into this process so far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI support the view that the constitutional review is the proper place for this type of discussion to take place. It allows us to chart our future. It allows us to do it in an orderly manner. I think that if we are going to make a change of this magnitude, then the change needs to be made in a general discussion undertaken by all New Zealanders. I also think that if we are to get unity in this sort of approach, then the voluntary or the optional approach to this is not the correct one. If you were to take this bill forward, then I do not think it is right that we should necessarily have an option, because I do not think that achieves the objectives of this bill at all, or even the objective of the mover of this bill. So I think that if this bill is all about inclusiveness and unity, then there should be no choice in this. This bill clearly gives a choice. Catherine Delahunty, the Green member who spoke earlier, talked about unity. I do not think there is unity when we give people the option to do something or not to do something.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E It has taken us many years, from moving even from swearing on the Bible to the option of simply making an affirmation in the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b302f5eec164cb0aa6d9cde2927b98c\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, so we have a choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022612f1c1c2c254ef7abe7623f6b451a26\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE\u003C/span\u003E: We have a choice in that, but that is a very different choice from some people being able to take it with them or some people not being able to take it with them. I think they both achieve the same thing. This does not achieve the same thing. It certainly achieves something\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022575c607f627041bbaf120e48db39d1b2\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe26109e25ab469e937ba4066eeb9d29\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE\u003C/span\u003E: Because it allows people to be either in or out. I can imagine my wife swearing an oath using the Treaty of Waitangi, and I can imagine me not doing that, and I do not think that is how this thing will be planned properly at all. I do not think it makes any sense to proceed down this path. I think that as a country we need to have a much greater discussion on this, and I think we need to do it in a manner that includes everyone\u2019s opinion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe country has changed much in the last 160 years. I must say that some of the sentiments expressed in this House tonight point to that fact, that the country has changed much. The make-up of the country has changed significantly in the last 160 years, and I think that in dealing with these sorts of issues we need to account for the very different make-up that this country\u2019s population has now from the make-up it had in the past. I look forward to that discussion. I think it is a great opportunity for us in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe last thing I want to talk about is the Treaty settlement process that has been undertaken and is currently being progressed, in my view, very satisfactorily under Minister Finlayson. It is making really good progress, and I think it is probably the first time in 160 years that we have moved forward in a manner that I think is doing a lot of good for this country. In my own electorate, in the Rangit\u012Bkei, I look forward to the Treaty settlement process being concluded, because I think it will give rural New Zealand a significant boost. In saying that I look forward to the Treaty settlement process moving on with pace, I also have to oppose this bill because I do not think either that it is inclusive or that it completes or gives us an option to achieve this in a manner that I think the country wants to move on. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8cfed4377154e5f9174ad32cd6d9574\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8cfed4377154e5f9174ad32cd6d9574\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Mihi atu ki a koutou e te Whare. I am very proud to stand and wholeheartedly support this bill, the Oaths and Declarations (Upholding the Treaty of Waitangi) Amendment Bill. I would like to at the outset mihi to Te Ururoa Flavell for bringing this bill to the House. Ka mihi atu ki a koe e te rangatira. This bill gives everyone the choice to add the words to their oath or declaration: \u201CI will uphold the Treaty of Waitangi;\u201D as an alternative ending. It is such a small measure, and that is why I cannot understand why people do not want to support this, because this is actually part of who we are as Aotearoa. This is what all of us M\u0101ori parliamentarians have been striving for, mai r\u0101 n\u014D. To have these seven words added at the conclusion of our oaths and declarations should be a given. It should be inclusive of everybody. I would encourage everyone to really support this bill. It is disappointing to hear the remarks from New Zealand First and from certain members opposite, because this is not denigrating or degrading the oath. It is definitely not a stunt. It is not about demeaning or not having any substantive merit. If anything, it strengthens the conviction that we should all have when we come into this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI remember\u2014well, we are just coming up to our first anniversary shortly for us new members of Parliament\u2014the excitement that we all had when we filed through here to deliver our oaths. We could elect to do either the oath or the declaration. We could also do it in P\u0101keh\u0101 or Te Reo M\u0101ori, so that has been progress. There has been choice in those two aspects. That is why I just say that this measure, which gives the additional choice to add those additional words, should be commended by this whole House. It is disappointing. I feel for my whanaunga there, Tau Henare, for being whipped into the position that he has to take with voting with the opposition. That is the nature of this place, but it in no way demeans anything that he does because we know where his heart is. We know where his heart is and his conviction for our people and for the Treaty in terms of his whakaaro and his ng\u0101kau. So I mihi to him for his k\u014Drero. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI would just like to add: what do we mean by an oath? If I go back to my Sunday school days when I was a child, the oath was a solemn agreement. It is important that when two people come to an agreement, if you put an oath behind it you are witnessing and sanctioning that you are committed to do what you are saying you are going to do, and you call on God to judge and avenge, to dish out some punishment or a sanction, if you do not do what you say you are going to do. That adds a bit of fire and brimstone to what you are agreeing to do. Likewise, for those who do not want to go for the religious sanction, well, they can always opt for a declaration. But the main thing is that oaths and declarations are very important personal commitments that people make. The most important commitment you can make is to swear an oath. If we could broaden the oath to include the Treaty, it would be great. It would show the progression that we have made as a country over the past 30 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EEighty years ago in this very House my grandfather, when he was an independent MP\u2014he came in representing Southern M\u0101ori\u2014presented a petition signed by 40,000 M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101 right throughout the motu seeking to have statutory recognition of the Treaty. We have seen great progression over the past 80 years, and especially in the last 30 years with the modern-day Treaty settlement process. That is why it is very disappointing that the Government has signalled that it will not support this measure to give people the choice to uphold Te Tiriti o Waitangi when giving their oath and declaration. I would just like to say one thing: Treaty settlements do not mean that M\u0101ori are going to go away. If anything, it is strengthening M\u0101ori right throughout the motu, and so maybe this bill might not be passed this time round, but I can tell this House that in time progressive steps will be made. I tautoko this bill. Kia ora an\u014D t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u0022970e427301794ddd9e3469946f5096b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022970e427301794ddd9e3469946f5096b2\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak in the first reading of the Oaths and Declarations (Upholding the Treaty of Waitangi) Amendment Bill. As previous speakers have already stated, the purpose of this bill is to commit a person taking any oath set out in statute to elect to state, in addition to the words of the oath, that they will uphold the Treaty of Waitangi. The bill will insert into the Oaths and Declarations Act 1957 a new section 4B that will be, in essence, applicable to every person who takes an oath. This bill is flawed in that the Oaths and Declarations Act 1957 does not cover all oaths. Therefore, it is not clear whether the provisions in this bill will affect other oaths that are not specified in this Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ETaking an oath or declaration is an important part of this country\u2019s legal framework to which a standard national approach needs to be taken. This bill is not the right platform, as the status of the Treaty of Waitangi is still evolving. A wider discussion should involve all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThere will also be an issue of enforcement and confusion about what \u201Cupholding\u201D would mean in practice. Making part of the oaths optional departs from the principle of uniformity that currently applies to oaths. The status of the Treaty in New Zealand\u2019s constitution and the duties flowing from it are a matter for Government policy, and so should be addressed in a Government bill and not in a member\u2019s bill. Because of all these issues I will not be supporting this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00229ac086d761b84e3bace8319384800a2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ac086d761b84e3bace8319384800a2d\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E Can I firstly thank those members who contributed to the discussion on the Oaths and Declarations (Upholding the Treaty of Waitangi) Amendment Bill. I have got to say that the arguments that I have heard tonight\u2014my gosh, they are wimpishly weak. I want to acknowledge Tau Henare for his courage in putting his k\u014Drero out there tonight. I think he made an important statement when he said this is an opportunity to be different in the world. I support that and I appreciate his comments. He also said it is non-threatening\u2014non-threatening. It is an option. You do not have to do it. You will not get banged on the head, nothing like that. No, no, if you want to you can take it up. So I struggle with some of the discussion that has been made tonight. We can talk about the Treaty, history, all that sort of stuff, but let us cut to the chase: that argument will always be there. What we are talking about tonight is a small statement, allowed to be additional to what is already stated in our oaths and declarations\u2014if a person wants to. Nothing more, nothing less. The statement is: \u201CI will uphold the Treaty of Waitangi;\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESome of the discussions that we have had tonight, with respect, are way off the mark. I talk to my colleague Louise Upston talking about the notion of having a constitutional discussion beforehand. That is happening, but it does not have to be one or the other; it can be both, and tonight\u2019s opportunity would have been that. I appreciate the comments from Parekura Horomia and Catherine Delahunty in supporting this. Talking about New Zealand First, well, probably I will not spend too much time talking about those members, because they do not do M\u0101ori very well at all\u2014they do not do M\u0101ori very well at all. They do not do M\u0101ori seats even though they got in on the back of M\u0101ori seats. Sorry, they do do M\u0101ori All Blacks. That is all right. I wonder why. So that is them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EMr McKelvie talked about needing discussion and planning. Goodness! This is a simple statement that allows a person, if they wish\u2014if they wish\u2014to make a statement. Actually, I would say this. In their heart of hearts, from the discussion I have heard tonight, members actually believe in their heart of hearts that there is no problem with this, but they are bound\u2014like Mr Henare\u2014by the whole notion of being whipped. Planning and discussion around a five-word statement to be added to a statement that we have in this Parliament\u2014I mean, what is the big deal? Somebody is talking about magnitude of change. My goodness! Five words, for goodness\u2019 sake! Somebody else talked about the notion of choice. Well, this is choice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022390162dcd60d4ae0be9ed760f776d35d\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edec41dfbc9b4085b1977eab0f31ac35\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: It is choice. It is nonsense when you talk. We talked about Mr Tirik\u0101tene-Sullivan\u2014Mr Tirikatene. I am sorry, e Rino, e taku h\u0113. I appreciated his comments, as well, about the historical nature of a desire from our people to have this statement, and similar statements of it, in this House. Mr Yang, you talked about uniformity. There is no uniformity already. You have got a choice\u2014oath or declaration\u2014and within that, here is another choice that you could take a part of, if you wished. No compulsion\u2014that is it. You talked about enforcement. When we come into the halls of Parliament we are already part of an enforcement regime, which is why Hone Harawira could not go through this process this year. By adding five words, he would have been\u2014along with many others who wanted to follow this line\u2014able to take up that opportunity. So we talk about consistency, and yet we have oaths to the Queen, to God, and whoever else, and yet, on a constant basis, we contradict that. We contradict that in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThis statement, if there was fear about there being a political motive to this, I do not get it. There is no political motive to it. There cannot be, because it is for those people who choose to take it up\u2014no political motive, pretty straightforward, to allow some of us to take up that option. Sure, there is a discussion to be had about the bigger picture about Treaty statements, but I have got to say that it is with an element of heavy heart that I listened to the discussions tonight. For all the rhetoric about the Treaty of Waitangi in this country, for us not to be able to have the courage and the commitment to add five words\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e40300f7e7c34ec287059d9e434dd37a\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s nothing to do with courage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e278bdb0b0884e65a4b3c47591096b6d\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014New Zealand First aside\u2014to the declaration and oaths in this country is a sad day. It is a sad day when we cannot take up an opportunity even to take it to a select committee to allow the debate to happen. Surely\u2014surely\u2014at this point in time, with the commitments made between political parties and, indeed, the founding document of our nation, that we could not find the space to take it to a select committee of this Parliament, it is a sad day for us. The balance is that Obama got in. The balance is that Tauranga Moana M\u0101ori are happy. The downside is that today, tonight in this House, at this point in time, it is noted down in history that some people did not have the courage to follow it through for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002295c1b27ce0e84b5992bd8a15258527d8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Oaths and Declarations (Upholding the Treaty of Waitangi) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 69\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand First 8; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226bee1dcbaf1d426b8eaff5066baf2928\u0022\u003ELocal Government (Public Libraries) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e0d89bf6c7014350953fe4003a9fd5a9\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u00229191c20d55f6495ea9d97bb73a8b3c74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229191c20d55f6495ea9d97bb73a8b3c74\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Local Government (Public Libraries) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Local Government and Environment Committee to consider the bill. This bill is about keeping public library services free for all New Zealanders. The bill would make public library services a statutory obligation for councils and would make core library services such as borrowing and internet access free. We have a fine tradition in New Zealand of our local libraries. We were brought up with them, our children visit them, new migrant students and older people rely on them. If members have not visited their local library recently, they should. They will find vibrant, exciting, and inclusive hubs of community learning and activity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge my colleague Grant Robertson, the original author of this bill. I was delighted to pick it up from him, and even more pleased when it was drawn from the ballot. I also want to acknowledge the important role of the Library and Information Association of New Zealand\u2014LIANZA\u2014which has been advocating for legislation of this type for some time. Its members have been talking with their local MPs. I am sure many of you will have heard from these guardians of the taonga we call our local libraries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWho could ever imagine that our libraries could be at risk? Yet with the Government\u2019s focus on local government cost-cutting, increasingly strapped local authorities may turn their attention to library services and more charges. Despite what many New Zealanders believe, our public libraries are not protected in legislation. Our current legislation only advises local authorities to ensure local residents can join libraries free of charge. We are out of step internationally with countries such as Australia, the United Kingdom, and Canada, all of which protect free public library services via legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWe are not meeting Unesco guidelines where public libraries, in principle, should be free of charge and the responsibility of local and national authorities financed by national and local governments. The Unesco Public Library Manifesto states: \u201CThe public library, the local gateway to knowledge, provides a basic condition for lifelong learning, independent decision-making and cultural development of the individual and social groups. This Manifesto proclaims UNESCO\u2019s belief in the public library as a living force for education, culture, and information, and as an essential agent for the fostering of peace and spiritual welfare through the minds of men and women.\u201D This bill will help New Zealand meet Unesco guidelines. It will address the issue of user charges and ensure that New Zealand\u2019s public libraries are an essential component of any long-term strategy for culture, information provision, literacy, and education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EOver the last couple of months since the bill was drawn, I have reacquainted myself with my local library. I have visited many other libraries and have found they are well attended and supported, sometimes crowded, with an important store of local and family history and exciting places of discovery. At the Auckland Central City Library students sit along the walls to access the free Wi-Fi. Others are curled up in chairs, reading a book that is crucial for their study. Walk a bit further along and there is a bank of computers, with people waiting to access them. They are there to access important information, such as job seeking. The old days of advertisements in the paper are diminishing, and now jobs are advertised on a range of internet sites, including Government sites such as the Work and Income job seek site. If someone finds a job, more likely than not they will have to apply online. It is almost impossible to do anything these days without access to the internet. Information about, and access to, Government services are increasingly available only through the web. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe public library is a place that is open to rich and poor alike. Our library services should never be bound by someone\u2019s ability to pay, but that principle is at risk in these days of cost-cutting. Statistics show that the introduction of user charges results in lower usage of public libraries, and this in turn directly impacts on our communities\u2019 literacy outcomes. It adds to inequality by denying access to those who can least afford to pay. The introduction of user charges in New Zealand in the past has resulted in lower usage of public libraries. In August 2009 Hamilton introduced a fee of $10 per month for homebound customers, and the numbers using this service halved. A series of charges introduced by the Rangit\u012Bkei District Council in the early 2000s resulted in a 35 percent decrease in borrowing. These charges\u2014[Interruption] Well, good question. These charges were removed in 2005, resulting in a steady increase in issues. In 1999 Ashburton introduced a charge of $1 per issue for all adult books that were under 2 years old. In 1988 Napier introduced fees for selected fiction books and magazines, and that resulted in a 65 percent drop in borrowing. In the Ashburton and Napier cases, after a huge public opposition the councils subsequently reverted to a free issues policy, and that resulted in an increase in issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ELibraries are the holders of many precious collections. They are the storehouses of history. I am thinking here of the important George Grey collections in the public library in Auckland. Imagine these collections being developed and applied on a user-pays basis. Do we really want unbalanced, profit-driven libraries that cater only for immediate, popular choices rather than non-profitable alternatives? The landscape in which public libraries operated has changed significantly over the past few years. Rapid technological change has seen the rise of social networks, e-books, smartphones, and many other mobile devices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe scale of that change is impacting on public libraries worldwide, and countries are responding to change and that pressure in different ways. Some, like Denmark, are reinventing the library both physically and virtually into a vital national and community asset, without which a community cannot think of itself as civilised. In the UK, sadly, some local authorities are responding to financial pressure by closing libraries or moving them to being run by community volunteers, which has been a disastrous move. However, other UK local authorities are reinvesting in libraries to ensure their continued relevance and value. As Singapore did 10 years ago, China is now investing heavily in public library buildings and services to realise the economic and educational benefits they offer communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EPublic libraries are vital community hubs. They connect people to their communities and they contribute to New Zealand\u2019s sense of national identity. A well-informed, educated population brings social and economic benefits to the whole country. Libraries help provide this with education, employment, and recreation opportunities. They provide the means for anyone to interact with the Government, business, and each other, regardless of means or income. With libraries now playing an important role in bridging the digital divide for those without personal computers or other devices, this bill will also ensure that no one is charged for accessing the internet via libraries in accordance with reasonable use requirements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI am sure that all members in this House will agree that libraries have a very important place in our society. Voting for this bill will entrench in legislation the role of free public library services for all citizens. It is a popular bill. It is a bill that surely we can all agree with. In finishing, I want to quote that great feminist Germaine Greer, who said: \u201CA library is a place where you can lose your innocence without losing your virginity.\u201D But she also said: \u201CLibraries are reservoirs of strength, grace and wit, reminders of order, calm, and continuity, lakes of mental energy, neither warm nor cold, light nor dark \u2026 In any library in the world, I am at home, unselfconscious, still and absorbed.\u201D So the question for the parties in this House is whether they support free public library services being entrenched in New Zealand legislation. It is not a radical idea. I urge parties to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022df32184b31684ee88954b9dc0ede0cf6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df32184b31684ee88954b9dc0ede0cf6\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E This bill, the Local Government (Public Libraries) Amendment Bill, is constitutionally confused, it is fiscally flawed, and it is awfully outdated. It actually says everything about how out of touch the Labour Party is with the modern challenges for New Zealand. It shows that the Labour Party is living in the past. Yes, I accept that in the 1930s the local library was the pivotal access point for people to get information. The reality today is that ultra-fast broadband and the internet, in which this Government is investing $1.5 billion, is actually going to be far more important for access to information this century. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe second thing is it is so nanny State. You see, members opposite fundamentally do not trust locally elected councils. What they want to do is sit in their parliamentary offices and tell elected councillors what they must make free. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe third thing about this bill is that it is fiscally reckless, like so many things that Labour does. You know, Labour knows so well how to spend other people\u2019s money. You see, everything that Labour members pride themselves on doing is coming to Parliament and making something free. Well, I have got news for members of the Labour Party: somebody always pays. Whether it is the ratepayer or the taxpayer, they cannot pretend there is not a cost for somebody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1336bc8436143b293af3d0d25ebf051\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, hang on\u2014the Greens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb638b7b15cf4784b7cb4e7461bafd9a\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we could take up the Greens. They say: \u201CNo, there isn\u2019t a cost. We just print money.\u201D, but this evening I am not going to go down that road. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EYou see, the basic point is this: do members on this side of the House think libraries are important? Of course we do. That is why we spent $70 million of public money on the National Library\u2014$70 million. If you look at Vote Education, there was over $100 million spent by this Government on providing libraries in our schools for children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIt is absolutely proper that we in this Parliament have a say about how we spend taxpayers\u2019 money, but what this bill says is that we are going to overrule local councils and say that they must spend money on public libraries. They must make them free. I could recite even in this Parliament speech after speech after speech of local members opposite saying that we must trust local democracy. So I simply challenge the members opposite\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222806d2ccdbb2456bb1847d552f95e907\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What about the regional council in Canterbury, Nick?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239c4b4f9818946659d6fbdbd6aea451b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: And I can hear Damien O\u2019Connor poking his head up. Why does he not trust the Grey District Council to make the decision? Why does he not trust the Westland District Council to make the decision? Why does he not trust the Buller District Council to make this decision? You see, members opposite cannot lecture this Government about local democracy and then, when they come to their particular issue, say: \u201CNo, no, no. Those services must be free, regardless of what the local council might decide.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI also want to say how technologically illiterate this bill is. It again illustrates to this Parliament how much Labour is living in the past and not the future. I would love the next Labour member to explain this for me. Just down the road from the Nelson public library\u2014in fact, within 500 metres\u2014I have got three internet cafes. They are little businesses; they employ people. Their businesses have been affected by a directive from the previous Labour Government that said that there could not be any charge for the public internet service, even for international visitors, and the consequence was a loss of jobs for those businesses. So my challenge to members opposite\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213769446bd174070a5b2f6fc44726c16\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffe1532053244553b526461365dfcc71\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: How many? Mr Little challenges how many. I reckon there are about four or five people employed in each of those internet cafes. It is interesting\u2014why is it that those internet cafes were started by private enterprise ahead of the public libraries? I will tell you why. Because private enterprise is innovative. It is able to move with the times more quickly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI ask members opposite what they have got against the provision of internet cafes, Wi-Fi services, and those other things? For instance, why is it that this bill would make it illegal for my local library to charge a fee for a DVD? Do we really think it is such an offence that a library service, right alongside Video Ezy or the local video store, can also charge for a DVD? Do we really think Parliament has to pass a law banning a council from putting any charge on a purely entertainment DVD? Have Labour members become such a socialist society that they wish that DVDs were free under the great Labour Party vision that they have? I say not. I say this bill goes too far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI also want to challenge the member\u2019s assertion that Unesco says that libraries have to be free. What a load of hogwash! What a load of hogwash! I challenge the member to tell us all those countries\u2014whether it be the United States, whether it be the Europeans\u2014that have this sort of law on their books, that have respect for Unesco. The Government\u2019s own advice from officials is that the member is flawed in her assertions in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EOur local public libraries right through New Zealand have a very important service and role to play. They provide a damned good service, which members on this side of the House respect. Even when I was listening to the member proposing this bill, she struggled to find examples of a problem that would justify this bill. I noticed she remembered my colleague and the decision in Rangit\u012Bkei, which she then acknowledged a council had been democratically elected to change in 2005. So I say to the member opposite, you are going to have to prove a lot better case for the wrong that you are trying fix for Parliament to override the decision of councils. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis is a nanny State bill. This is a bill that is tied to books of the last century, rather than the information age of this century. This is a bill that says that members opposite know better how to spend other people\u2019s money than they do about how to create wealth. This is a bill that speaks volumes about the lack of vision of the Labour Party and how bereft it is of ideas for taking this country forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f91a384d45384916a696ef40de767f90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f91a384d45384916a696ef40de767f90\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the honourable member Jacinda Ardern. As it is a 5-minute speech, I will ring the bell at 1 minute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022fee65bc4be8d469090736fc2d52bb06e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fee65bc4be8d469090736fc2d52bb06e\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E What an absolute outrage to have that ex-Minister, Nick Smith, stand up and tell this side of the House that a bill to try to preserve what should be a sacred thing, and that is access to information via local libraries, is an attempt to overrule councils, overrule local government, and gut their ability to self-determination. I find it utterly outrageous to have the former Minister, who has tried to remove the four \u201Cwell-beings\u201D from local government\u2019s mandate, can now stand up and tell this House that our attempt to preserve something that should be sacred is an overriding of local government\u2019s jurisdiction. That is a complete outrage, particularly given that we have seen some examples in recent times of local government considering paring back some of the services around local libraries not because of choice but because of pressure\u2014the kind of pressure that that Government is happy to place on local government, with no qualms whatsoever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBureaucracies are loading down local government, and that means they are starting to have to make choices between essential services and, for instance, having to send out bureaucrats to individually, one by one, register trees, Mr Smith. That is the kind of thing that that Government has decided is more of a priority than the kind of cost that we would like to see maintained within councils, and that is the preservation of essential services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ENick Smith stood up and said this bill is constitutionally flawed. This bill is quite simple. It is about maintaining what the public would assume to be a natural right of local constituents anyway. Most people would be astounded to think that we would need to preserve in legislation free access to books and things like internet services. The ex-Minister also said that the roll-out of ultra-fast broadband was going to solve all the issues we have highlighted around access to the internet. That is absolutely untrue. He obviously has not heard of something called the digital divide, and it is very real\u2014so much so that it is actually measured as one of the enforced lacks. Unicef uses it as a way of demonstrating whether or not children are all getting the same start in life, by whether they are able to access a computer and the internet. We know that that is an issue in New Zealand\u2014we know it. Material deprivation, enforced lacks, has increased under this Government, and now they think it is fine to allow a situation where this will get even worse, and will not even put in a few measures to protect the odd free service, via, for instance, preserving what should be sacred. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIn this party we recognise the important value of libraries\u2014we always have. Norman Kirk, a great Labour Prime Minister, left school at 13. He educated himself via a local library. That side of the House may try to call those services antiquated. They are very much still the hub of our communities. I know that where I reside we have seen those services under threat even in recent times. Grey Lynn Library, which was voted by users across central Auckland as the best library we have, was recently threatened with closure, as the council came under increasing pressure to cut services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe natural place that they go? Those quiet achievers; they look to our quiet achievers and they threaten them, and yet those are the places that our parents go, for playgroups and to take their children for story reading. It is where our job seekers go when they want to access a service that is a little more safe and secure than a Work and Income kiosk. It is where our students and our elderly go. [Interruption] If they are safe, why is it then that there was debate, Simon Bridges, in Tauranga about charging for general hireage? You would have to rent a book for $2 a go. We are not even talking about the best renters, like Fifty Shades of Grey, Simon\u2014I know you would be an avid reader. We are talking about the general checking out of books at $2 a go. If that side of the House thinks that is acceptable, then fine, vote against this bill, but on this side of the House we want to preserve our libraries and that is why we are in full support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002256b705c6b0f04d05b7fc995a3b94a243\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256b705c6b0f04d05b7fc995a3b94a243\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E You can only imagine yourself, or oneself, in the Labour Party strategy room, and they are thinking\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec85294d6d88499e8d143e35fe7a37a1\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: Scary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ea23c503b41467db4885efa7139f24f\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes, but in this instance we are going to go there and we are going to think \u201COK, we\u2019re going to oppose the commissioners coming in to do a good job and pick up after Environment Canterbury because we really want local democracy.\u201D Then they move on to the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority post the earthquake and they say \u201CIt is really not fair of that bad National Government to take away local democracy.\u201D Then you move forward a month or two and you go to the Local Government and Environment Committee and hear the submissions from councils, fully backed up by their mates in Labour, and they say \u201CTaking away self-determination from local democracy\u2014bad old National Government.\u201D Then we have in front of us a bill, the Local Government (Public Libraries) Amendment Bill, that does exactly that. So what does Labour want? Well, I do not think Labour knows what it wants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222da1b0e4888e447e9b3f1b81df24121c\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: A new leader.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae233bbca5dc4e42adf400a6dad054eb\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes, Labour wants a new leader, and it cannot even make up its mind about that. It is tearing itself apart as we speak. But we are now dealing with this bill in the name of Darien Fenton, and all she is doing in this bill is shifting the costs. All those fine words about access to learning and access to libraries are all very well, and crossing the digital divide and finding jobs is fantastic, and finding shelter from the cold weather, which is what they do in my part of the country, is all very well, but who is going to pay for it? Well, under Darien Fenton\u2019s \u201CLabour-lite\u201D world, it is all going to be for free. Who is going to pay for it? Well, not the ratepayers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo here we go. Let us have a look at the purpose of this bill. Clause 4 states: \u201CThe purpose of this Act is to amend the Local Government Act \u2026 to expand the public library services that local authorities are required to provide for free.\u201D So if it is going to be for free, who is going to pay for it? Let us just hold that thought for a minute, because we will move on to clause 5: \u201CSection 142 replaced\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb93f7e995b24ce098c9df5c7d5c560e\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Jacqui, it\u2019s called taxes. Hello, Jacqui.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022689856e61f324df4a8d9cf4f413240a3\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it is the taxpayers! The member from the other side of the House has now decided that the taxpayer is going to pay for local library services. Well, let us ring up Local Government New Zealand and tell it that its Labour mates are now in favour of a complete takeover of local government by central government, and that the taxpayer is now going to pick up the tab for library services. Let us just remember that thought. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ELet us go into new section 142(1)(a), which states: \u201Cthe residents in the district or region of the local authority are entitled to join the library free of charge;\u201D. Well, hello, here is some news, Darien Fenton: they can do that already. It is already in existing legislation. So let us go to (b) and have another crack: \u201Cthe library shall not charge any resident of the authority\u2019s district or region for the use of library material, including books, non-print resources, and digital information;\u201D. Well, who is going to pay? Who is going to pay for these services? Is it going to be free? Is it going to be the taxpayer, as Phil Twyford is no doubt going to represent? Who is going to pay? Who is going to pay for these services if they are going to be for free? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI just want to make one final point on this bill, and I go to new section 142(2): \u201CThe National Librarian must present an annual report to Parliament on the implementation by local authorities of subsection (1), \u2026\u201D. Is that not fantastic? The National Librarian is now going to become the library police for the Labour Party. So, not content with drawing money out of thin air\u2014no, should I say printing money, because I suspect that is the only way they are going to be able to afford this policy\u2014or printing money to give effect to this bill, it is also going to make the National Librarian the library police for Labour so that it can go and check on local government. Here we have Darien Fenton, and all this member is doing is shifting the cost. She cuts across all principles of funding of local government. This member should be ashamed of the ignorance she is bringing to this House. I do not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ebf9754ebf8443bfa8ca9d2c57939d3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ebf9754ebf8443bfa8ca9d2c57939d3c\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. I am pleased to speak on behalf of my colleague Gareth Hughes, who is the Green Party\u2019s library and archives spokesperson, on this, the Local Government (Public Libraries) Amendment Bill. The Green Party will be supporting this bill in the name of Darien Fenton, because we believe that everybody has the right to information, and because, in an increasingly unequal society due to the economic policies of this Government, libraries are a place where everybody can have free access to information. This bill is not telling local councils how they should run their libraries; it is just enshrining that free right to read, and to access books, digital information, and the other services that libraries provide. We value libraries because they are the storehouses of knowledge. They play a vital role in our communities and in the functioning of this Parliament in providing access to information and providing in our communities a gathering place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIn Christchurch, where we have not been able to access the library in Worcester Street post-quake, it was a major cause for celebration when the new library opened opposite the old Christchurch Convention Centre in the old Vbase building. It is open, it is clean, and it is a place where children, migrants, and older citizens go because they can access books for free. This is why we support this bill. I would like to quote something that Carl Sagan said about libraries: \u201CThe library connects us with the insight and knowledge, painfully extracted from Nature, of the greatest minds that ever were, with the best teachers, drawn from the entire planet and from all of our history, to instruct us without tiring, and to inspire us to make our own contribution to the collective knowledge of the human species. I think the health of our civilization, the depth of our awareness about the underpinnings of our culture and our concern for the future can all be tested by how well we support our libraries.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EUnder the current Local Government Act, local authorities that provide a library need to ensure only that local residents can join it free of charge. Those councils do not have to enshrine a right of free access. We have seen the growth of membership charges, whether it is by rental for books or through other charges, and that goes against the whole Kiwi culture. Kiwis love our libraries. In 2003 a survey of cultural activities and spending found that visiting libraries was the third most popular activity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efcd2653b4e84e82a139e749cb2d388c\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: They love barbecues too; you\u2019re not making them free.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea9a9b79a1fc4ec0a0764f950a235515\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Bridges, 39 percent of the population visited in a 4-week period. Around half of all New Zealanders are members of our libraries, and in some places membership is at 80 percent of the local population. Another survey in 2009 by Kiwis Count found that 82 percent of people were happy with the services provided by their library\u2014the happiest out of any council service. That is because New Zealanders value free access to books and library services. Where councils have attempted to put in place charges there has often been a strong resistance from the community, and in places like Tauranga the council has had to retreat and not institute those book charges. And where those councils\u2014like Ashburton, as Darien Fenton mentioned\u2014have put in place charges, what has happened? Patronage of the library has declined. Where you put in place those user charges, who pays? Who bears the brunt of those measures? It is people who can least afford to pay: migrants, people on a benefit, people on low incomes, the people who would get the most out of free access to the libraries and getting access to books. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis bill is a very useful one because it means that libraries have to ensure that books and the knowledge they provide is free. It is also a way, as others have alluded to, of bridging the digital divide, because not everybody has a computer at home, and by having free access to digital services, we can get over that barrier. So it is a bill that we will be supporting because it is consistent with what done elsewhere internationally by not charging for books.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022a20c4e21edd54bb4b9a73f8de6e9beee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a20c4e21edd54bb4b9a73f8de6e9beee\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak on the Local Government (Public Libraries) Amendment Bill. I want to start off by acknowledging the great job that so many librarians do around our country. I also want to start by acknowledging that in this Parliament we currently have a parliamentary inquiry into 21st century learning environments. I am not going to go into the detail of that inquiry except to say that I do not support this bill, because I think there are rapid changes happening in terms of technology and information management, and that what this bill does\u2014although I acknowledge Darien Fenton, the member who has put this bill to the House\u2014is misguided. I think it is misguided for a number of reasons and I want to talk through them today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe first thing that I would like to say is that when we look across the country in terms of information management, when we look across the country in terms of libraries in Grey Lynn versus libraries in North Shore, there is a difference in practice, so to provide a statute that puts things in place, particularly, even, terms around charging for digital information and books, will in my view legislate what may be outdated terms in a period of time. That is the first point I want to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe second point that I want to make, and it has already been made by a number of my colleagues, is that to put these costs on local government and to say that every public library is going to be free is a very dramatic change and it is contrary to a number of other speeches that we have heard in this House. I want to touch on something that Eugenie Sage has already said. Yes, there is an issue generally around access to information, but that involves a range of policies, the term \u201Clibrary\u201D itself, the role of the libraries in the future, the role of libraries with regard to both public libraries and school libraries, and the role of libraries in terms of broadband policy\u2014these are all things that we have been considering as part of the select committee inquiry. But to prescribe those terms and to prescribe policies, and to prescribe certain information management in legislation and say that every single local authority in the country will have free access around that, in my view, is a flawed piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E I do want to say a couple of other things. Another thing I want to point out is that it is not just about the terms that are in the bill; there has also been an issue raised around UNESCO and its obligations under UNESCO. I do want to make the point that actually when you look in more detail at those guidelines, the guidelines are in principle and I would think there is a very valid reason for that. That is that right around the world many countries are acknowledging that whether it is through the greater role that some school libraries are playing, or whether it is through more online learning, there are rapid changes in information management. My caution to this Parliament is that although this bill may have been well intentioned by Darien Fenton, I cannot support this bill, because I think that what is needed\u2014and I know that we have got a parliamentary select committee looking at some of these issues\u2014is a much more holistic approach to information management and the access to information. In my view, I cannot support this bill for that reason. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe other main point that I want to make is that Opposition members stand up and say to other members across this House that in some way we do not support information management and access to information, when we are putting $1.5 billion\u2014that is one of the greatest enablers in this country\u2014into ultra-fast broadband. That is one of the greatest enablers particularly for disadvantaged communities. Many members in this House have heard of projects like Manaiakalani, where we are seeing a huge uptake by M\u0101ori and Pacific kids. I am very proud of some of the policies that we are putting in place to enable disadvantaged communities to have access to information. This bill is flawed. It may be well intentioned, but it is flawed and it does not take into account the rapid changing nature of both technology and information management in the world. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u002205b3c8877cac48f3ba81e5f1df9d7da6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205b3c8877cac48f3ba81e5f1df9d7da6\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I take a call on behalf of New Zealand First on the Local Government (Public Libraries) Amendment Bill. This is a very interesting bill because the public libraries of this country are institutions in their own right. We all know of some of the great public libraries located around New Zealand, and we have grown up with those public libraries in our towns, in our villages, in our cities, and in our districts. They very much are the centre of many communities. As the explanatory note of this bill does say at the beginning: \u201CPublic libraries play an important role in our communities by helping New Zealanders to achieve access to information and entertainment. They also provide important community hubs.\u201D That is very much the case. At this point in time, New Zealand First will be supporting this bill because we feel that it does require scrutiny and it does need to go through to the Local Government and Environment Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EWe are very concerned about what is happening in local government in terms of the four social well-beings being taken away by this Government\u2014in terms of the social, cultural, economic, and environmental well-beings. Therefore, if this Government is going to focus local authorities simply on rates, rubbish, and sewerage, and take away many of the social and cultural responsibilities, then perhaps our libraries could be threatened in the future. That is not to say that they would be immediately, but they could be threatened in the future. That would be a sad day for many communities in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EI can recall an instance that we had on the North Shore where our Birkenhead Library unfortunately got demolished before there was a building and resource consent to replace it, due to some error in the bureaucratic system. Unfortunately, the lovely old library, which had outlived its usefulness and was leaking like a sieve\u2014the roof was leaking like a sieve\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e24444252604ca1a88704d5d57aeb63\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: This is a terrible story.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0328b2d9994495a934fb24a94a868bd\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: It is a good story, Simon, if you listen to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa1f32388b7041e991f7ee8b383fe73f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will use another member\u2019s full name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267a13a5a601c42dcadb22aa9fe5a48ef\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Simon Bridges. When that building was demolished and was out of use, for nearly 3 years the library had to use some temporary premises, and it actually did affect the whole community in that the community lost its heart and soul. It lost its library, it lost its meeting point, and it lost the place where so many people came together. It did illustrate the fact that although many people who are perhaps not used to using libraries see them as a cost or a burden on ratepayers, to a large percentage of the population they are actually an important community venue. They are somewhere they go to genuinely get enjoyment from reading, but also to get important information for their own educational purposes. When that building was replaced in Birkenhead after about 3 or 4 years, it absolutely rejuvenated that community by having that heart and soul back in the community. So it is important that those libraries are freely accessible, are free to those communities, and are able to be accessed without charges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EWe do have some reservations about this bill in terms of we do understand that councils have difficulties in necessarily providing DVDs and CDs and all that sort of thing, because they can be expensive and they can be costly to stock, maintain, and replace. Therefore, if this goes through to the select committee, we certainly would be looking for more information on that, because perhaps there is an appropriate nominal cost to try to cover those sorts of electronic fees for the likes of DVDs and CDs. Also, in terms of the internet, again, we would not want to see libraries putting out of business local businesses that provide paid internet services. So there has to be a little bit of a compromise there, a little bit of give and take. Sure, you want your citizens to have access to the internet, but the library certainly should not be in competition with local businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EWe certainly would like the Government to support this bill. Give it an opportunity to go through, let it be thrashed out, and let the people of New Zealand have their say on how they feel public libraries should be treated in this country in the future. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u00229ca0b8c558ee4f5db4a5e21e6d9b49e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ca0b8c558ee4f5db4a5e21e6d9b49e4\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Light bulbs, shower heads, compulsion in the shower, compulsion in the way we put light bulbs in\u2014does any of this sound familiar? Is it bringing back the old failed polices of Labour lost? \u201CNanny Fenton\u201D, I am afraid, has taken over. She is trying to exhume the Labour policies of old, which have failed abysmally in the past and are coming over again. We have rejected that level of micro-management. It does not work. No charge for library services, including books, digital information, and internet access. Prohibit libraries from charging. Compulsion and prohibiting\u2014what good is that doing? Who are you shifting the burden to? Think it through. What good are you actually doing the wonderful libraries that are in this country? You are not doing anything about the problems that exist. So, for example, if someone takes out a DVD or a book and they damage it, do the ratepayers have to pay? Does everybody but the person who does the damage have to pay? Sometimes libraries have to be able to charge a little bit. If they do, that should be up to them and local government, not you guys. Relinquish your hold on this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219b167d2a7e14a3f94c6cfc6e149d515\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b83520c408d452eb61350ed36a3a92c\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: You lost elections over it\u2014not you, of course, Mr Assistant Speaker. I suspect in your case you would not really adhere to this sort of stuff. The Local Government (Public Libraries) Amendment Bill is a bill that lacks specific measures to prevent, for example, excessive use and monopolising of the internet resources. So you go into your local library and there is somebody sitting there at the internet, hogging it hour after hour. There are no restrictions and there are no problems with it. There needs to be control. Local librarians and local organisations can sort this stuff out. You guys have enough trouble getting your leadership organised and getting your policies sorted. Frankly, it is nothing much to do with you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236bb5366afd14a2d994461d5eae188f5\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member needs a little help in just remembering the convention about \u201Cyou\u201D. She has brought you into the debate several times. I think just a little bit of assistance would be useful for her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afe4dd5f1178401db679a3c1b2b90111\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I thank the honourable member for his remarks, and point out to him that under Speaker\u2019s ruling 27/5(2) the sole discretion is at the use of the Speaker. However, the member should try to direct her comments to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1244a7216d9433e8caa6d0990f871dd\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much. I think King\u2019s College would regret the day that it graduated such a person, but that is another issue altogether.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWe look at what is already an unnecessary piece of work. This Government is all about rolling out broadband so that it is available all around the country. Books and libraries are places of great tradition in New Zealand. I think that people in Government, or, in fact, in their case, on the Opposition benches in perpetuity, should keep well clear of things that have not worked for them before. We do not support this bill for a whole lot of reasons. I certainly do not support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI think of our Better Local Government reforms that other members opposite have tried to ridicule, even though, of course, failed practitioners not elected even for Albany boards, let alone for the mayoralty, ought to take a cue from failed utterances in the past, Mr Williams. But what we look at here is ratepayers. I am concerned that somebody, sooner or later, is going to have to pay. Rates have skyrocketed, particularly on the North Shore, where I come from. The Labour Mayor, Len, is very keen to pass on charges. The Labour Party seems quite happy to help him in this. Who pays? Really, the dictates of this policy are ridiculous. I am surprised that it has come this far, but there you go. That is democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI certainly do not support this bill in any way, shape, or form. I concede it is probably well intentioned, but it is still a failed and implausible piece of stuff, and I do not support it in any way, shape, or form. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022be58a821584749aaa9bab090a1410ee6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be58a821584749aaa9bab090a1410ee6\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E It is really lovely to be following the flower of the North Shore. That last speech was not so much a case of \u201Cspray and walk away\u201D; it was more \u201Cspray and sit down\u201D. It is clear that this bill, the Local Government (Public Libraries) Amendment Bill\u2014this very fine member\u2019s bill from Darien Fenton, who seems to have a knack for pulling excellent members\u2019 bills out of the ballot, and this is just another one in the series\u2014has touched a deep nerve in the National Party benches. It exposes what is a philosophical fault line in this House, and that is that members on that side stand for user-pays and an individualism that is in stark contrast to those on this side of the House, who stand for public provision and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c770a021eec24170868ce45a2e0fd971\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b95e9a63ebb4e5f9dd1d8c687e61340\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014community. That is exactly right. It was the British Labour Prime Minister Clement Attlee who said, famously, that taxation is the price of a decent society. I would say\u2014to paraphrase Clement Attlee\u2014that public libraries are an indicator of the health of a decent society. That is why Darien Fenton has brought this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIt should not surprise anybody here that the idea of ensuring, of guaranteeing, the public library as a place where anybody in the community has free and equal access to the information commons is extremely challenging to the members of the National Party. The idea that people should have free and equal access\u2014free and equal access\u2014to information is an idea that National Party members simply cannot get their heads around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIt is worth remembering that the public library is an institution in our society that developed at the same time, over the last couple of hundred years, and alongside free universal public education. It developed at the same time as we extended the universal franchise in our society. It developed at the same time as we began to govern our towns, our cities, and our communities through democratic public institutions, and not through private oligarchies. There is a reason. Those are all fantastic public achievements in modern history, and they are all based on the understanding that free and equal access to information is the cornerstone of democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThat is what it is about, and that is why National Party members do not like this bill. They do not like the whole idea that anybody should be entitled to turn up to a public library and have access to information whether it is on the internet, whether it is on a DVD, or whether it is in a book. Nick Smith got up in this debate and poured scorn on Labour for supporting a bill that he said infringed the rights of local government. This is the man who has sacked Environment Canterbury, who is in the process of stripping local government of its powers and purposes, and he got up and tried to poke the borax at Labour for interfering in local government. That is such an absurdity. But the thing is that Nick Smith pointed to the internet cafe as the great institution in Nelson. I think that that actually perfectly symbolises the National Party\u2019s idea of society\u2014the user-pays internet cafe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EOver this side of the House we champion the publicly available, publicly provided library, where any child in a town, a city, or a suburb around New Zealand can turn up at that library and have access, through broadband internet and a collection of books, magazines, and DVDs, to all sorts of information. That is the kind of society that Labour stands for, and that Nick Smith and the National Party clearly do not understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI want to finish by paying a tribute to the librarians of this country. They are a wonderful breed of people who are dedicated to service. They are dedicated to the community and to the sharing of knowledge. All over New Zealand tonight librarians from our public libraries will be watching this debate with interest. They will be appalled by the selfish, narrow-minded philistinism that they have heard from the National Party tonight. May the rage of a thousand librarians rain down on the heads of National Party members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc678f69302d492fa0b738cba851800e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc678f69302d492fa0b738cba851800e\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E I can see that the good people of Te Atat\u016B are sitting at home tonight regretting the decision they made a year ago. They sent Phil Twyford here to do great things, they sent him here to make big changes in the world, but actually he came here to save them 50c for borrowing a book from their local library. That is what Phil Twyford is going to be known for after tonight, if this legislation passes\u201450c at the local library. I want to know why Labour members are focusing on the big issues in this economy. We have got some issues to deal with. Their solution is printing money. Their solution is borrowing a whole lot more money, and it is also about protecting libraries from the Christmas Grinch, from the library Grinch, who supposedly is raining down upon local government in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EActually, local government will continue to provide for libraries, at a reasonable cost to its ratepayers, like it has done for a long time. In fact, if you look at the legislation that this Government is passing through the process around local government, it actually talks about good quality local public services. I absolutely agree that libraries are part of a good local public services regime, and that is why libraries in local authority districts around the country have been operating fairly well for a long period of time, without the need for the socialists, and without the need for the command and control economists sitting over there, on the other side, coming along and passing legislation to protect them from something that is just not even going to happen. Libraries in New Zealand provide a great role in local communities. I absolutely agree with that. But there is no need at all for this legislation\u2014there is no need at all for this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThe explanatory note talks about public libraries playing an important role in our communities\u2014absolutely\u2014but swimming pools play an important role in our communities too. Are they now going to bring legislation saying that swimming pools should be free? What about museums? Museums play an important role in local communities. Why do they not have a bill saying that museums should be free? What about art galleries? What about hall hire? Local authorities do a huge number of things in our local communities that play an important role, and that ratepayers and residents do value. Why are they not telling us they should be free, too? It is because it costs money. They know that the ratepayers in New Zealand expect their local councils to look after their money sensibly. There is a cost to it too. There is a cost to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EI have looked through the Auckland Plan, which details the budget. If the Labour Party legislation goes through in the form that it is written in, then there will be ratepayers up and down Auckland who will be up for about an extra $5 million. There are ratepayers in Auckland at the moment who are moaning, who are complaining, and who are absolutely upset that the Labour Party member who is the Mayor of Auckland is proposing huge costs on them, and we have got the Opposition on the other side wanting to impose even more costs on ratepayers. The Labour Party does not care about ratepayers. The Labour Party cares about ideological solutions to non-problems, because this is a non-problem. There is no problem here at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E I want to talk about some of the services that libraries do provide, because libraries do legitimately charge for some of the more premium services. By premium services I mean the likes of DVDs. When Shane Jones goes to his local library and wants out to hire out a DVD, then I would say that the local library should be quite within its rights to charge for it, if it is a premium service that that ratepayer\u2014maybe Shane Jones could be his name\u2014wants to be utilising. What about CDs? If someone wants to go to their local library and hire out a CD, I do not see why I should have to go to the local CD shop\u2014I do not see why the local CD shop should have to have his business impacted on because the Labour Party wants to make CDs free in order\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274ded32b021145e0a160e7e2121446bb\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Sorry to interrupt the honourable member. There has been far too much of this tonight. I have been quite lenient, but the rules for interjections are predicated on the assumption that the person being interjected on has the call. There are members interjecting on each other rather than on the person who is addressing the House. That is not allowed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f22e8da86cdd486abd6579818412aaa3\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker Robertson. If it makes the House feel any better, I was actually quite enjoying his interjections. They are usually quite comical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246c7c12730bd4a12b71bc620b4773778\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re a lot better than Twyford\u2019s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226708f6769479456ba32f4b1c1b85a2ae\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS\u003C/span\u003E: They are a lot better than the ones coming from Phil Twyford anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EIf there are premium services that the library wants to provide and wants to charge a legitimate, and small, charge for that, then they should be allowed to, because there are businesses operating probably next door to the local library that will be having their libraries competing with them for free, simply because an ideological solution from the other side has been passed through legislation. And the end result\u2014the end result\u2014of this legislation if it passes, actually will be us seeing a reduction in services provided by libraries, because if libraries and local authorities cannot charge for some of these more premium services, they will simply stop providing them. That is what this legislation does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022866512f408cd4e8e9e7a986276602fdd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022866512f408cd4e8e9e7a986276602fdd\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, I want to thank the colleagues in the House who made sensible and reasonable contributions to this debate. I am really glad that this bill, the Local Government (Public Libraries) Amendment Bill, was drawn from the ballot, even though it is very clear where the National Party is going with it, because I think what it has done tonight is reveal the real agenda of the National Party. It has revealed those members\u2019 real agenda around the local government reform. It has made it very clear that deep down in their hearts they do not like libraries, they hate books, they hate people having access to knowledge, and they think people should pay for it. They think this should be about user-pays\u2014never mind the people who cannot afford to pay. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWhat we have heard from this Government tonight is if you do not have access to a computer\u2014I mean, if you do not have access to a computer because you cannot afford one, broadband is no use to you. Broadband is no use to people at home if they cannot have it, and yet we have this whole programme of e-government. It is all about information provision online by the government to the citizens of New Zealand, but this Government wants to make sure that that is impossible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI am really looking forward to seeing and hearing about some of those members visiting their local libraries, and seeing\u2014what was the word you used about the librarians\u2014the anger, the rage of a thousand librarians raining down on them, because it will. I think the attitude, the sniggering, and the sneering that has gone on from the Government tonight shows nothing but contempt for those people who work in our libraries, who are committed to what is a public good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI have got a very, very interesting question to ask the members of the Government. Are they prepared to cough up for user-pays for the Parliamentary Library? Are they\u2014are they? Are you prepared to have the Parliamentary Library as user-pays? No, it is a fair question. Silence. Silence on the other side. So it is fine for the citizens\u2014for the poor citizens\u2014to have to pay for their local library\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e85ce9af1e846ddbdc429961dc52694\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Who pays for the Parliamentary Library?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d76f5e8e26e47a1aad5f04ca9b92e3f\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, who pays for it? Good question. Yes, it is a very\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c55020965d4489dba3e8a29459dff60\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: That shut them up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a1b45b3e88d4ef38e32c094f58488f4\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it did. It absolutely shut them up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI thought Nikki Kaye made an attempt at least of making a contribution. I know that she has chaired an inquiry into the digital future of New Zealand, and I do know that the Library and Information Association of New Zealand has made a submission on the digital divide\u2014a very, very important submission. I am looking forward to Nikki Kaye, on her next visit to the Auckland Public Library, when she trots along and wanders around showing her support for the library, and gets her photo in the paper and all the rest of it\u2014she has just lost the library vote. She has lost the library vote, and there will be other members who will be in that same situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThere is an old saying that it is well known that libraries are dangerous places. Libraries are dangerous places, because they actually help people challenge themselves, learn new ideas, and actually, possibly, challenge the status quo. How dangerous is that? This Government wants to shut this down. It does not want the dangerous places called libraries. It does not want ordinary people to have access to knowledge and information, and information on the internet, because by keeping them shut out of information, it can make sure that it controls the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWell, I have got news for the Government tonight. This is not the end of this bill. It may be voted down by those members, but I can tell all of you in the House that this is not the end of the matter. The librarians of New Zealand will continue to mobilise around this. The citizens of New Zealand and the communities of New Zealand will mobilise around it. They will be outraged when they hear about the appalling speeches from the members of the Government tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002252a7fb226003445cac164b39d3f2a4da\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Local Government (Public Libraries) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 8; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227752679d8b25486ba8cfa228174c5736\u0022\u003ELand Transport (Admissibility of Evidential Breath Tests) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225a1e86522f214008b3130ae49cab822e\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u002206cfa47c07384a0aba770a455f4d8704\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206cfa47c07384a0aba770a455f4d8704\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Land Transport (Admissibility of Evidential Breath Tests) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee to consider the bill. When this House first passed into law the Land Transport Act back in 1998 it established a strict and prescriptive regime around the evidential breath test and blood testing of drivers suspected of driving while under the influence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe legislation has been intensively scrutinised by the courts over the years. Those charged with excess blood-alcohol levels often engage lawyers to test, probe, and nullify the technical aspects of the law in attempting to avoid conviction. The case law around this area is extensive. It is complicated, and it provides, in my opinion, far too many opportunities for escape from conviction resulting from what most ordinary Kiwis would call legal loopholes. I am delighted, therefore, that the Minister of Police, the Hon Anne Tolley, has recently ordered that the Police should come up with a better system for testing drunk drivers, because there are too many escape routes. I applaud that review, and I will look forward to the outcome of it in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EToday there are still too many people escaping prosecution, and it is the closing off of one of those escape loopholes that my bill seeks to address. My Land Transport (Admissibility of Evidential Breath Tests) Amendment Bill will remedy a small but significant oversight, one not contemplated by the House when it passed the principal Act back in 1998. My bill amends the Land Transport Act to broaden the circumstances where a positive evidential breath test is admissible evidence in seeking a prosecution under the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EUnder section 77 of the present law a positive breath test is not admissible in evidence if the suspect has elected to have a blood test subsequent to having blown a positive evidential breath test. Section 70A confers the right of an accused drink-driver, having produced that positive evidential breath test, to request that a blood test be taken. The accused driver has 10 minutes in which to make that decision. However, the law is very specific, and once a decision is made to elect to have a blood test taken, at that moment the preceding evidential breath test is no longer able to be used in evidence in any subsequent court case. That is section 77(3)(b). Under the law, the test is statute barred. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe principal Act assumes that once the option to elect a blood sample has been exercised by the accused drink-driver, blood will in fact be available to be taken from the accused drink-driver. The principal Act simply does not contemplate a situation where the particular medical or personal physical characteristics of the accused mean that a blood sample may not be able to be drawn from that person. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe Act is actually silent on what is to happen when a blood test is elected but a sample cannot be collected because a medical officer is unable to obtain a sample. But the Act does make it clear that once a blood test has been nominated, the previous evidential test is no longer admissible. The original intent of the legislation obviously was to provide statutory clarity that, once obtained, the blood test should have evidential precedence over the earlier breath test. So let us consider when it may be, for instance, and under what possible circumstances it would be, that a blood sample perhaps may not be available from an accused drink-driver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EA recent Rotorua District Court case, the Police v Childs, heard before Judge M A MacKenzie in just July of this year, provides an absolutely excellent example of the situation my bill seeks to remedy. There the defendant, Childs, who was positive for hepatitis C and also an intravenous drug user of many years, was apprehended by police and underwent a breath-screening test that returned a result of 400 micrograms. He then underwent an evidential breath test that returned an even increased result of 655 micrograms. He was then advised of his right to a blood test, and, of course, he immediately accepted it. As the tourniquet was applied, Mr Childs taunted the medical officer by saying \u201CGood luck\u201D and smiling. Three attempts later, made over 40 minutes, the medical officer was simply not able to locate an appropriate vein and no adequate blood sample was obtained from Mr Childs. Years of intravenous drug use had more than taken its toll on the veins in his arms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EJudge MacKenzie examined in detail existing case law around this area. I commend members to take the time to read her very good judgment, which sets out in clear detail why my bill is required to remedy the situation where, following two positive breath tests, Her Honour was forced to, by statute, dismiss the drink-driving charges against Childs. Childs literally got off scot-free. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe judge said, and I quote directly from the judgment: \u201CIt is accepted that there is no specific statutory provision which addresses the situation where a blood sample is not in fact collected on the basis that the medical officer or practitioner has been unable to obtain a sample such as in Mr Childs\u2019 case. I am acutely conscious of the need and importance of accountability for drink-drivers. The frustration in this case\u201D, said the judge, \u201Cis that Mr Childs clearly contravened the sprit of the legislation given the evidential breath test result, and in that sense is evading responsibility for his actions of drink-driving and the consequences of it.\u201D The judge went on to say: \u201CA statutory amendment would be required to address the unusual circumstances such as Mr Childs\u2019, where blood cannot be taken for medical reasons.\u201D This bill provides that statutory amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E I was pleased to hear from Mike Noon on behalf of the Automobile Association say that the Automobile Association supports the intent of this bill. It will be suggesting to the select committee that the words \u201Cany reason\u201D be narrowed slightly to identify that the reason should be of a medical nature. Doing so would, of course, prevent a situation where, for instance, no testing equipment or no testing officer was available, thus preventing a blood sample from being taken. That is a matter very appropriate for consideration by the select committee, and it is a suggestion I am more than happy to explore. I certainly appreciate the support of the Automobile Association. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI note that the Attorney-General has tabled a report on my bill under section 7 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. The nub of the report from his officials is that my bill would in some way infringe upon the rights of a person to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. Nothing could be further from my intention in moving this bill. The purpose of this bill is to entirely confirm the previously very clear intention of this House that driving under the influence of alcohol is both legally and socially unacceptable, and those who do should, after evidence beyond reasonable doubt has been established in a court of law, be held accountable for their actions and accept the full legal consequences of those actions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EMy bill does not remove the presumption of innocence. It merely provides that should blood not be available for testing, then the police shall be permitted to introduce into evidence before a court of law the evidential breath test taken prior to the nomination of a blood test. It would absolutely, of course, still be up to the police prosecutors to prove their case to the satisfaction of beyond reasonable doubt. That is the measure of all criminal convictions within our judicial system. I respectfully disagree with the views expressed by the Attorney-General\u2019s officials. In so doing, I remind honourable members that it is Parliament, this Chamber itself, that is master of its own legislative-making capacity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo, in conclusion, this bill seeks to remedy a loophole not anticipated when the principal legislation was enacted. It is an amendment that will impact on people such as Mr Childs, who do not and cannot currently accept responsibility for the consequences of their drink-driving, due to an omission and an oversight on behalf of this House in the principal Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge and thank my colleague the senior Government whip, Michael Woodhouse, for his help, support, and guidance with this bill. The genesis of this bill was his, and arose from a previous court decision where similar circumstances to the Childs case prevailed. I look forward to the select committee consideration of the bill and to progressing the bill through the House. I thank honourable members for its favourable consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022db6cf88cfa30484dbd3c4c98cb012b21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db6cf88cfa30484dbd3c4c98cb012b21\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Let me say at the outset that we in the Labour Party seek to be a constructive Opposition and to work with the Government where we can on legislation, so we will support this legislation, the Land Transport (Admissibility of Evidential Breath Tests) Amendment Bill, going to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. Having said that, we concur with the view of the Automobile Association that the bill as it is worded currently is too broad, and we would also want to see some amendment to those final words in the bill, \u201Cfor any reason\u201D. We would need to see amendment to that and also consideration of the Attorney-General\u2019s report before we could support it any further, but we do look forward to the debate and the consideration at the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EClearly, it does seem inadequate that where an evidential breath test finds or suggests that someone is over the drink-driving limit, there appears to be a mechanism by which a small number of people may be able to avoid prosecution. It is important to reinforce, I think, that we are dealing with probably a very small number of people\u2014in fact, I believe that the member in charge of the bill, Scott Simpson, cannot tell us exactly how many people might be captured by this legislation. Therefore, we wonder whether this really is a significant issue that is so desperately in need of attention. In fact, the member suggested that there are many ways to avoid prosecution for a charge of drinking in excess of the limit. If that were the case, then surely this should be a Government bill that addressed all of those issues. We wonder on this side just how significant the problem is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI have to look at some of the language that Mr Simpson has used around this issue. He cited the case of a defendant who was apparently hepatitis C positive. I do not know what that has to do with anything. I do not know why Mr Simpson felt the need to bring that fact into the debate at all. That person was also an intravenous drug user. I read in the newspaper Mr Simpson referring to this as an issue that was pretty much specifically designed to capture people who are intravenous drug users. In fact, he has not offered any other reason why it might be difficult to take blood from someone. There are a range of reasons why it may be difficult to take blood from somebody. One is being overweight, another is stress. At a time of stress, the body actually withdraws the blood from the limbs\u2014the arms, the legs\u2014back towards the vital organs and the brain. It is the fight or flight response. It is quite a normal thing to happen and, indeed, if someone were found to be driving over the limit, it is probably fair to say that that would be a stressful situation and that fight or flight mechanism may kick in and it may be difficult to draw blood from these people. But these situations have not come up in Mr Simpson\u2019s discussion at all. He has focused this solely on a group of people whom I suspect he deems to be less worthy of a reasonable hearing before the law. Because they are intravenous drug users, he has decided that they are somehow less worthy before the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EYou have to wonder exactly what it is that is driving Mr Simpson here, or why he has used that language. Maybe he is trying to convince the good National voting people out there that this will not affect them somehow, because this is directed at a very narrow group of people and not at them. I do not know. Mr Simpson might be able to enlighten us as to why he has used the particular language that he has, but that is up to him. Suffice it to say that there are a number of reasons why it might be impossible to draw blood. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI do want to say, though, that we must be mindful of the Attorney-General\u2019s report. Mr Simpson referred to it as the Attorney-General\u2019s officials\u2019 report. I think that is unfair on the Attorney-General. The Attorney-General\u2019s signature is on this. I know John Banks has set a new standard for signing documents and whether or not you are supposed to have read them before you sign them, but I take the Attorney-General\u2019s signature on there as this being something that he has not only read but something that he supports. So this is the Attorney-General\u2019s report, and we do have to be mindful of it. In fact, if the Attorney-General were to offer his thoughts in this debate, that would be welcome on this side of the House. But we do need to be mindful of what the Attorney-General said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI find it ironic that this Land Transport (Admissibility of Evidential Breath Tests) Amendment Bill is being promoted by a National Party member. It is being supported by the National Party, and it will get, I am sure, the support of the governing parties tonight as well as some of the Opposition parties, when it will have such a small impact on the road toll and the harm caused by drink driving, when in the same breath those parties will refuse to support lowering the drink-drive limit from 0.08 to 0.05. That is a measure we know is evidence-based and will have a significant impact on the harm on the roads caused by alcohol. The Ministry of Transport has provided evidence to the Minister of Transport that it will reduce the number of people killed on our roads every year by up to 30. Up to 30 lives can be saved every year if the Government would just accept the advice of its own officials and would follow public opinion. Eighty-five percent of New Zealanders support lowering the drink-drive limit from 0.08 to 0.05, which international evidence tells us not only has an impact on the people who drive with a blood-alcohol limit of between 0.05 and 0.08 but also significantly reduces the number of people who are heavily intoxicated who get behind the wheel, drive their vehicle, cause accidents, and kill people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211ba2e67b7104b9093487701d271072d\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: How?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206aa17f28d754428bffb32265d860e2a\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: I heard the word \u201CHow?\u201D from the far side there. The evidence is actually quite clear and quite simple. It is quite simple. A limit of 0.05 requires people to make a decision about whether or not they get behind the wheel much earlier in the process of consuming alcohol, because once they get over 0.05 but are below 0.08 they lose the capacity to make a sensible decision about whether or not they should get behind the wheel. It is as simple as that. The evidence supports it. The evidence that the Minister was given supports it. Public opinion supports it. It is what people want. It is the right thing to do. It will save lives, and yet this Government will not do it. What it is doing instead is a piecemeal piece of legislation like this, which is fine in and of itself, but it is meaningless in the grand scheme of trying to reduce the road toll and trying to reduce the harm caused by alcohol and the harm caused by drink-driving. It is, in fact, from the language used by Mr Simpson, being used to isolate some members of our community and further divide our community, which we know this National Party is so very, very good at doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003ESo although we appreciate that there is probably some positive motivation behind what Mr Simpson is trying to do, and although we appreciate that there is an inadequacy in the law, which we will work with the Government to tidy up, we think there are much larger issues that need to be addressed, and could be being addressed, by this Government if it was actually prepared to do the right thing and address the harm caused by alcohol on our roads with a piece of legislation that would actually make some difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022aff42354f5ba444e9a912865a81a910d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aff42354f5ba444e9a912865a81a910d\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Minister of Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E It is great to follow King\u2019s College old boy Iain Lees-Galloway, who is now, we know, a social campaigner. It is great to see someone sticking up so staunchly for intravenous drug users, a group that has not been stuck for before. That is one interpretation. The other interpretation is that that party is so low in the polls that those members are looking for any interest group to support them. That is probably the interpretation that I would go with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ENo one is saying, Mr Lees-Galloway, that this is the biggest issue that has ever come before this House. No one is saying that. The member Scott Simpson himself should be commended for finding this issue\u2014it is a discrete issue, it is a narrow issue, but in its way it is an issue that should be remedied, and there is a problem here. We understand that the evidential breath-testing happens, then there is a 10-minute rights period, and then we go to the blood test. I have no experience of that test; some members in this House may do, but I have none. But there is a real problem here. There is a real problem. We understand that some 10 years ago the law reinstated the right for blood tests for all drivers, and to compensate for that, and for the removal of the right of drivers to challenge the accuracy of the evidential breath test, we have got the problem here that has arisen and that the member Scott Simpson has brought to this House, because case law has made it clear that it needs to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThis bill aims to close a loophole whereby a small, select group of drunk drivers are able to avoid prosecution. The truth is, Mr Lees-Galloway, it is a small number of people. It will basically be just intravenous drug users, where they cannot have blood taken from them because the vein cannot be drawn from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228296c272107f465db59c713f95c71c7e\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s one reason. What about the other reasons?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226aa32ca3843a4ae9a6e27f357c1af8bb\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: There may be other reasons for it, as well, but that will absolutely be the issue that is coming before the courts, and the case law tends to indicate that. So if a person complies with the blood-taking process and they cannot be prosecuted\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0473b55b1f843d083ee586a27667bc7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0473b55b1f843d083ee586a27667bc7\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. Honourable members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201211079247bded51ed40b99092a8e8040d014a000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"