"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a6f300b4be694e47a3c6195382fd33f5\u0022\u003ETuesday, 4 December 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c6c88cbe07594d128b31c2ad1d0329f0\u0022\u003ETuesday, 4 December 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223866d48019d14fd0928a3f2621c317f2\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002234c7fffa26764d628db65e23fa2026a6\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002201cf96f41ae740029e665ae5ad27784b\u0022\u003EBusinesses, Performance\u2014World Bank Report, Confidence, and Business Growth Agenda\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u00229de3d3c09d3540b694a28052dc44fe2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229de3d3c09d3540b694a28052dc44fe2c\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he received on the competitiveness of New Zealand\u2019s business sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022747fbf5eeb3241dc93139a05a3a1a2c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022747fbf5eeb3241dc93139a05a3a1a2c9\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I have received the World Bank\u2019s report Doing Business 2013, which assesses how easy it is to do business in 185 economies around the world. Overall, New Zealand is rated the third-easiest economy for doing business, behind Singapore and Hong Kong. We are ahead of the US; the United Kingdom, in seventh place; Australia, in 10th; and Japan, in 24th. Through the Business Growth Agenda and other measures, the Government is working hard to help New Zealand businesses be more competitive so that they can invest further and employ more people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4a448c2d91849679cff930a2d5d531c\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: How does the World Bank measure New Zealand and other economies in assessing the ease of doing business? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226d6c20165414eaba0b8e13ef52c53fa\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The Minister has not even opened his mouth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5b204e5e2a54147abb47ed3737e6b0d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The World Bank assesses 10 specific areas in respect of ease of doing business. They include starting a business, dealing with construction permits, getting electricity, registering property, getting credit, protecting investors, paying taxes, trading across borders, enforcing contracts, and resolving insolvency. The World Bank confirms that New Zealand, across these 10 different dimensions, has an excellent environment for doing business, but, of course, it needs to improve so that we can provide more jobs for more New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8556b221d844bd78d5fea1d17a77e40\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has the Minister received regarding the performance of New Zealand businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224608ad2c69c84a49853290be80c083fc\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The performance of our businesses matters, because the key to more jobs is businesses that are willing and able to provide those jobs. The latest ANZ Business Outlook survey shows an improvement in business confidence in the context of a reasonably flat second half of the year, with a net 26 percent of businesses expecting general economic conditions to improve. Businesses\u2019 own-activity expectations are a bit higher, with a net 32 percent of respondents expecting more activity in their business over the coming year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022347e2ac1dcb241d4a4549ee273220a02\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: What steps is the Government taking to help improve the competitiveness and productivity of New Zealand businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220688cd15e6be498aa77b09f6f94d77c2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is relentlessly focused on the competitiveness and productivity of our businesses. Over the past 4 years we have reformed the tax system by lowering taxes on business and increasing consumption tax and tax on property investment. We have reduced red tape, invested heavily in modern infrastructure, and increased investment in science and innovation. We have set out this extensive programme in the documents published as part of the Government\u2019s Business Growth Agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c9c9f37df554edbbd7d3a74399b600b\u0022\u003ETrans-Pacific Partnership\u2014Outcomes and Scope of Negotiations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u00220c246e54213f4cc4bb1f684d3604f393\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c246e54213f4cc4bb1f684d3604f393\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Trade: Does he stand by his statement on the Trans-Pacific Partnership that \u201CIt\u2019s going to be big. It\u2019s going to be significant and it\u2019s going to help New Zealanders find well-paid jobs\u201D; if so, on what evidence does he base this claim?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e15b40da6964fc5a4bfbbea251fe33c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is some Minister going to answer the question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00221382788607c1454da7c3e798d875b6f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221382788607c1454da7c3e798d875b6f0\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Trade: Yes, he stands by that statement. If concluded, the Trans-Pacific Partnership will be New Zealand\u2019s largest free-trade area. It includes four of our top 10 trading partners, it is home to 650 million consumers, and it represents US$21 trillion of the global economy. Collectively the group takes nearly 40 percent of New Zealand exports and, of course, it includes the US, with which a free-trade agreement has long been a top foreign policy priority for successive New Zealand Governments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259339ea123744a8bb24c970dab8b5e12\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: How can he reconcile the necessity for secrecy regarding the Trans-Pacific Partnership, yet at the same time make claims that the agreement will provide jobs for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022147421836d994c57b749ae2be937b8ab\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is hardly a secret that there are negotiations. I think there are 500 people from\u2014how many countries\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd58265e33ef431c8f57589564ccbb43\u0022\u003ERt Hon John Key\u003C/span\u003E: 11.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222017f87b14f64cd1803bb5b99315150f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: \u201411 countries turning up in Auckland, and it seems to be pretty well-known. The fact is we think a free-trade agreement would be a good idea. We are willing to conduct the reasonable process of negotiation in good faith with our negotiating partners to achieve that agreement. We understand Opposition parties are opposed to the jobs that would flow from a free-trade agreement. That is their policy position; it is not ours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263af96ecfa9f46388b14377feebb0c2a\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Will he have as a negotiation bottom line the protection of existing New Zealand intellectual property law, and will he ensure that New Zealand\u2019s position is not simply the adoption of the intellectual property laws of the United States of America?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d07dbc0f8b8541ea808ae3efd888c60e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That issue, along with a number of others, I am sure, will be a matter of pretty intensive negotiation, because it is pretty clear that the parties are negotiating from different starting positions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe12e6e34a264075b77029527b7ce1fc\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Are there any specific aspects of the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement that could erode or limit New Zealand\u2019s sovereignty; if so, what are they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295057cb2d842431cbd9ee0b58a789c71\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, not in an unacceptable way. The fact is that when we are doing agreements with other countries, both we and they often have to give up some aspect of their policy that they did think was important but they give it up in order to achieve the larger benefits of free trade. So this is a process that is not without compromise, but it certainly will not be a compromise on our sovereignty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216234af248374776a34048e93f58b77c\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Trans-Pacific Partnership affect the Overseas Investment Act in regard to prohibiting performance requirements and industry incentives for the film industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022060feb26688d4d8f9ba0379a2f6305a0\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure whether particularly that second statement is correct, but the Government is not planning any changes to the Overseas Investment Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd42c53ba5bb4d9ab29b2200f1cc7bde\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Will he have as a negotiation bottom line, and can he give us an assurance, that there will be no erosion of Pharmac\u2019s position in New Zealand in respect of medical drug purchase and distribution?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b688013c281347488d658602efe73c13\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s approach will be articulated in precise terms through the negotiation, but we share with the previous Government a strong desire to maintain the effectiveness and the independence of Pharmac.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b4540afdb4c4f7e9ac5e36465e42ee7\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister saying that the film industry will be totally unaffected and that current industry subsidies will not be affected by the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022341da1c1edbc4f9a9994a830f109a6ec\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I would not want to prejudge the way the negotiations would go over the next 12 months or so, but the process does allow for the kinds of arrangements that the New Zealand Government applies to the New Zealand film industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229386118e7f7e48eda406f15c554f8c7f\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister assure the House that this Government will not sign the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement unless the US removes subsidies from its agricultural sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247aa7dc9d262488bb4c96658ee8a2814\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It is certainly a long-term aim of the New Zealand Government to see those agricultural subsidies eliminated. The same discussion has been going on for 50 years with the European Union, and at different times we have made progress. So it is very important in this negotiation that we see progress, but, again in the spirit of good faith with our negotiation partners, I would not want to pre-empt the result of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b8f84ffc9784e9d8cfeefdba0e06004\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u2014Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6ee35eca09d4a1e9c775bc52611bad1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6ee35eca09d4a1e9c775bc52611bad1\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement \u201C\u2026You can trust us. If we say we\u2019re going to do something we do it. If we don\u2019t, we don\u2019t \u2026 that\u2019s why I\u2019ve stuck to my guns and I haven\u2019t campaigned on one thing and done something different.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0e1ff9ceefd4ba8b4ee6d6f6a6b6779\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0e1ff9ceefd4ba8b4ee6d6f6a6b6779\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. That is why we campaigned on delivering a whole range of policies that have made New Zealand a better place, including putting 600 more police on the streets, bringing in tougher bail laws, increasing elective surgery by 35,000 operations a year, shortening cancer patient waiting-times, funding Plunket 24/7, funding Herceptin, and boosting front-line services, including 800 more full-time permanent staff doctors and 2,000 more nurses in our district health boards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd651ccfafff4ab8892a44792da41284\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement: \u201CAnd I think New Zealanders will judge me on not just how I respond to the big issues of the day but also how I treat people who are marginalised and in need.\u201D; if so, what will he do to address inequality, which has increased to the highest level ever, under his Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cad42661752842d18a7d69ef2b94a2cd\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do stand by that statement. If you look at the Government\u2019s record, despite the very difficult economic times we have actually run a deficit that has protected the most vulnerable people. That has included substantial Working for Families payments without adjustments. That has included a programme for rheumatic fever. That has included programmes in a number of areas to help those who are down on their luck. So no one can really argue that this Government, in very difficult economic times, has not made great strides to try to assist those who are least well off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d8382a109f04d2c9416de3e20cfae55\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement: \u201C\u2026 I am proud to be the Prime Minister who takes responsibility for the fact that unemployment capped at 7 percent in this country,\u201D, and why is he now not taking responsibility for the fact that it has exceeded 7.3 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d144dca78c3a47e9aaedd72afa71d7b9\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, for a start-off, I do take responsibility, and, secondly, what I can say is that we live in a world where the international conditions are difficult\u2014we accept that. But the Government can and does do things that are within its control. As examples of the things that we have done to try to create more jobs, we have brought in the 90-day trial period, which has created more than 13,000 jobs; we have introduced the starting out wage to lower the barrier to work for our youngest workers; we have clarified the status of an independent contractor, which saw 3,000 people working on The Hobbit movies, we have set a 9-month time for consenting projects of national significance, we have vigorously pursued free-trade agreements, we have reduced the cost to business of the emissions trading scheme, we have increased investment in infrastructure, we have reduced\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5f454360d78455faec4799e7607522b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I think the Prime Minister has given a sufficient answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0ece1c095584abfaf3d51cd9d3f1b97\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Has he kept his promise on early childhood education that \u201CWe will keep 20 hours and maintain existing subsidies and controls.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7954e4308674322a1a27bd0d6b5a49f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, 20 hours remains.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c073e005e02459a979711bb2a11e0ac\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Does he regret standing in Westpac Stadium saying: \u201C\u2026 the equivalent of this entire stadium\u2014and more\u2014leaves every year to live permanently in Australia \u2026 I\u2019m convinced we can give them a reason, and a purpose, to stay \u2026\u201D, given that the only stadium in the country that could now host the numbers leaving is Eden Park?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c4d101a648f423393528854f628f092\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do stand by that. If one looks overall at migration over the period of time that National has been in office, there are more people in New Zealand than there were beforehand. We are having a little bit of a flood, but nothing more serious than we have seen internationally. If we do want to send a lot of people overseas, I guess the way to do it is to have more inflation, a capital gains tax, basically give Working for Families payments to beneficiaries, and have Russel Norman as the Minister of Finance, which I understand is only millimetres away. The Green Party made a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227414ebde015549ec99e017c067f06db1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aa023ef0d5a4fe58abbd70969e5cda5\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Given New Zealand has the highest unemployment rate in 13 years, with the highest emigration rate ever, the worst inequality ever, and a fiscal policy that is based on selling New Zealand\u2019s assets, does he stand by his statement that if he left tomorrow, he will leave the country in better shape than he found it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d2a5a09bba240439c3b50e267114a61\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. And a couple of things: I am not leaving tomorrow, but, then again, I am not the one facing a vote in February.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d1c80133a4614b079e538aba8a47a4b6\u0022\u003ETrans-Pacific Partnership\u2014Investor-State Dispute Provisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022389cfc3a964843de87998083ac729615\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022389cfc3a964843de87998083ac729615\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement regarding investor state disputes procedures proposed in the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement that \u201CAn exclusion solely for Australia and not for everybody else is unlikely to be something we would support\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022841e62043c9c4764a5c5c2b2f5e00ab3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022841e62043c9c4764a5c5c2b2f5e00ab3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. This statement simply reflects the reality that an international trade negotiation is a reciprocal process with give and take on all parts. Negotiating parties, including New Zealand, are unlikely to agree that special treatment, such as an exclusion from investor-State dispute settlement procedures, applies to one party but not to the other parties. I would also note that trade agreements are about finding a balance of benefits for everyone, and the benefits New Zealand could gain from a successful Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiation will be very significant indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221066a6d8672a47f8ad8042e551f24afe\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Will New Zealand open itself up to litigation from firms based in the Trans-Pacific Partnership countries should we sign up to the investor-State dispute settlement procedures, which Australia has rejected?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f60748d0207b456b8a60743738d694d9\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well for a start-off, I do not think it is actually correct to say that Australia has rejected them. What is true to say is that there are different countries bringing different perspectives to the negotiation, but when a final Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement is agreed, all parties are likely to sign up. In terms of the first point, no, I do not think that is of concern because investor-State dispute settlement procedures allow a safeguard for New Zealand. New Zealand has already signed two free-trade agreements that include investor-State dispute settlement procedures. They were done under a Labour Government. They were the China free-trade agreement and the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Agreement. They include the very safeguards that would protect New Zealand under those provisions. They also, I might add, protect New Zealand companies when they invest overseas. That is the very purpose of the investor-State dispute settlement procedure requirements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dca9297fdbac46c48fe4c4ae7c3fd9fe\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister guarantee that there will be no chilling effect on New Zealand\u2019s environmental policy from these procedures, given that in Germany that Government was forced to water down environmental controls on coal-fired power stations or face being sued for more than US$2 billion for breach of investor-State provisions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a94675153064fd4aef50bc6acd2bc25\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, I think that is unlikely. As I have said in regard to my earlier answer, fundamentally New Zealand does make sure that, and has ensured in the past, there are safeguards when it comes to investor-State dispute settlement provisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205cd6dda4265433b92f15f9a15f1360c\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Prime Minister propose to guarantee that there will be no chilling effect on New Zealand\u2019s health policy, given that in Peru the Government is being sued for $800 million because it regulated to stop the severe lead poisoning of children by Renco Group\u2019s metal smelter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233d3bf8b254048d6a2a54c35742f5cf4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am simply not aware of the provisions in Peru, but I can tell you the way that New Zealand legislates and goes about these free-trade agreements, and it is very careful to give itself the safeguards that we would think make sense. I think if one goes and has a look overall and takes a step back, then the purpose of New Zealand engaging in the Trans-Pacific Partnership is to sign an agreement that would lift economic growth and provide jobs and opportunities for New Zealanders. On the best forecasting that we have so far seen off a basic prediction out to 2025, that is worth about US$2.9 billion to the New Zealand economy. I think that is a prize worth going after, and I think New Zealand should continue down the negotiations. The same kinds of fears that the Green Party and New Zealand First want to raise in the House are the very same ones that were argued against the China free-trade agreement. I suspect they would have been the same kinds of arguments made against CER. They were the same kinds of arguments put against the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Agreement. Is anyone in this House, other than the Minister of Finance in waiting, seriously saying that we should rip up our China free-trade agreement and everything else?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee5e1a1421224fe79b26658e755b428b\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: How exactly does the Prime Minister intend to guarantee that there will be no chilling effect on New Zealand\u2019s health policy, given that in Ecuador Chevron Oil has used investor-State procedures to stop that Government from taking action to recover clean-up costs for the dumping of 16 billion gallons of toxic waste into the drinking water of 30,000 people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022917d9853a15248d7aa4073d5ebe3df0e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: It has finally, after a few months now, all come clear to me: the reason that the Green Party wants to follow the policies of Argentina in printing money is it clearly gets all of its ideas from Latin America.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff3b90df13be4e06bc602c43f2762f21\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was a straight question, and asked for\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220543a99a63d148c3b881433cbf8c2862\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! A point of order is being heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022becab695865d4734939e9ac92a6dcf05\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I asked the Prime Minister how he intended to guarantee against a chilling effect on New Zealand policy, and gave an example\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e46368bea3b546f6a3cafdd9014f9578\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will let the member repeat her question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d8a2a0b0a8646da826c7d780d7cd28f\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Prime Minister intend to guarantee that there will be no chilling effect on New Zealand\u2019s health policy, given that in Ecuador Chevron Oil used investor-State procedures to stop the Government taking action to recover clean-up costs for the dumping of 16 billion gallons of toxic waste into the drinking water of 30,000 people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022355e21e57c774651a959ac2f4c631f6c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said in numerous answers to numerous questions from the member, there will be safeguards in the New Zealand law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fbe03c1bccb44a28b2b752671c330f2\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister have any concerns that Philip Morris could use the investor-State procedures in the Trans-Pacific Partnership to sue New Zealand, given its actions in Australia and the veiled threats made by its spokesperson in New Zealand, Chris Bishop; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241a84f81bb7d4137baee2dd32b1f63b6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, you cannot stop anybody suing you, but because someone sues you, it does not mean that they will win. There are plenty of examples in this House of that. Secondly, as I said earlier, we are looking at and will ensure that if investor-State dispute settlement takes place as part of the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations, there will be safeguards, so that will allow us to do that. I go back to my earlier point that, in the end, the Trans-Pacific Partnership will be a free-trade agreement that binds the same rules on all 11 countries. The member will be aware that Australia as of 1 December went into its programme of plain packaging. It is not in any way concerned about doing that and continuing to be part of the officials group and continuing to negotiate as part of the Trans-Pacific Partnership. That tells you that it must believe that the two policies are compatible. If it did not, it would not have introduced plain packaging or it would not be sitting around the table at the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which just shows you that the member, like Jane Kelsey, spends a whole lot of time fearmongering, and is fundamentally wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220821bbaf4ba34da9bde1bef84fb127b9\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Prime Minister willing for New Zealand to sign up to the parts of the Trans-Pacific Partnership that our closest and largest trading partner is completely unwilling to sign up to, because that Government wants to protect its rights to legislate for public health and the environment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257197a6344fa443bb8c59983140cc2ff\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in numerous answers to numerous questions, the Trans-Pacific Partnership would have the same rules applying to all parties. So in the end, if agreement cannot be reached amongst those 11 parties in relation to investor-State dispute settlement rules, which apply to every country\u2014that includes Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, Canada, the United States, Peru, and others like Singapore, Brunei, you name them\u2014then we will not have those provisions in there. But I take a step back and say, yes, of course there will be a bit of give and take on all these different rules. New Zealand will make sure it safeguards its provisions. I think we should actually congratulate the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, because in my opinion it has a world-class negotiating team, which has done a first-class job for this country on numerous examples in the past, and it will continue to do so in the future. And the overall prize of all of this is more jobs. I go back to what I said on TV on Monday morning\u2014when I picked up the New Zealand Herald on Monday morning the first thing I saw was yet another Green MP, Catherine Delahunty, opposed to jobs, and opposed to growth, and that is why Russel Normal wants to be the Minister of Finance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cb7fff6613944109a8852d7cff39f21\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. We have repeatedly had to put up with the Prime Minister answering very simple, straight questions with attacks on the Green Party. He should just answer the question. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2a84a93e3744ab1bdc7e13d4ac737a1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Which National member is volunteering to leave, if they keep up that noise when I am on my feet? That is enough. The member\u2019s complaint is not unreasonable. The Prime Minister should not have put that last bit in. We do not want to carry on down that track any further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fef52df103eb4b23a2b96616d6babf44\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an Official Information Act response from the office of Tim Groser, setting out the talking points in relation to Australia\u2019s refusal to engage in the investor-State dispute resolution process for the Trans-Pacific Partnership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261fc170d0711440d82f6bdf277eea7e9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f9e3722abc954ac18ddc3b04346b22bf\u0022\u003EStudent Loans\u2014Cost of Lending, Repayment Rates, and Access\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022b608146cb4964d30b0365e06cfac4b00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b608146cb4964d30b0365e06cfac4b00\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills and Employment: What progress has the Government made to improve the viability of the Student Loan Scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd9087908d5a4423bc74922d6bd6bf21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd9087908d5a4423bc74922d6bd6bf21\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is making very good progress. The latest student loan scheme annual report shows the overall cost of lending has fallen by 17.5 percent over the last 3 years. The cost has fallen from 47c per dollar in 2009 to 39c in the dollar in 2012, and the report projects it to drop to 37c in the dollar next year. That is a significant improvement, but one we are working to improve further. The Government remains committed to interest-free student loans but it is important that the scheme is affordable long term for students and for taxpayers and sustainable for the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8bc756bc6b74bf785747c0595d79eb4\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What progress is the Government making to get students debt-free faster?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265c356d62e1e46b2a9b78a4a5013d224\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to report an 11 percent increase in student loan repayments in 2011-12 to $767 million, which is up from $691 million in 2010-11. Further, the median repayment time for those who left study in 2008 is 6.7 years, which compares with 7.4 years for those who left study in 2003. For 2008 leavers who remain in New Zealand the median repayment time is down to 5.5 years. Through Inland Revenue we are also targeting overseas-based borrowers who are not meeting their repayment obligations. To date we have gained back just under $20 million through the latest campaign, which accounts for $12 for every dollar spent on the project. Those gains have freed up money for reinvesting in quality tertiary education provision and enabling the Government to improve our overall fiscal position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223101dcae6aea4a568a4a3a83a6bf421f\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government ensuring students are in the best position to repay their loans?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c83aedd6ef994f5dac3f4b76a00841f3\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: As part of our changes to tighten the student loan scheme, the Government has moved to ensure that student loans are used effectively by people to obtain qualifications that enable them to earn enough to pay their loan back and contribute to this country. This has coincided with a continuing uptrend in performance. Course completion rates have risen from 77 percent in 2009 to 82 percent last year, while qualification completion rates over the same period have increased from 62 to 71 percent. It shows the tertiary sector is responding well to our signals to focus on performance and deliver better value for taxpayers\u2019 money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226936e6087960400a8f1b8ccdc24bdaf6\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, what does he say to the 55-year-old woman who came to my electorate office having lost her job and who is wanting to retrain but is unable to do so because he and his Government have taken away the eligibility for people aged over 55 to borrow the living costs of their loan, or does he not think she has got a contribution to make to New Zealand\u2019s economy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297074f5629c8487888de3568ba789d37\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, that person over the age of 55 can continue to borrow from the student loan scheme for their course fees\u2014that is correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e5d737723c34600b00d07629e4a94db\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: But not for living costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022013b4072b1b34c3488ad8527f2b3939e\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Not for their living costs\u2014that is correct. Of course, somebody who has lost their job and is unable to get a job is able to qualify for welfare support, but they can do student borrowing through the student loan scheme for their fees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002293acfa213a3a4ac683a0505716c0af66\u0022\u003EWork and Income\u2014Use of Transition to Work Grant\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd558fbedd8a425a8e1c5c603ae49245\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd558fbedd8a425a8e1c5c603ae49245\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: How many times, if any, has the Transition to Work Grant, or similar funds, been used by Work and Income New Zealand to purchase tickets to Australia for job seekers who have found work there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9f4e9ad673d40678df531559e67c3d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9f4e9ad673d40678df531559e67c3d2\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E I cannot answer the question. The grant has been in place since 2007. Because it is not the policy intent or acceptable practice, there is not a place to put it in our system, so I would have to manually go back through the last 5 years, and in the last 3 hours I have not had time to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224343a1433f2743e2a15a69018b49930e\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any way for her to know with certainty how the discretionary Transition to Work grant of up to $1,500 has been used by Work and Income managers? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273e86164bf284954be38f673245ec6b2\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Since September this year any decisions around grants to move people or anything else have been escalated to head office. That has happened quite recently. There are in the system places, obviously, where you put what the grants are for. I can give the member some details on the average grant, which is $363 a week. We have had more than 500,000 of them in the last 5 years, so there is a lot. Some are for clothing costs; we help dress people. Some are for childcare costs while someone goes for an interview. [Interruption] I am trying to answer this question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283d569b5d00e4afcab8bc1558b4469ed\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Is there anything in the Transition to Work policy that would rule out the fund being used to purchase tickets to Australia? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c128afb8fa9a4aa4a5748053d3ab3b3f\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, except that it is not the policy intent, and that is very clear to staff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226336201982ce496baf0218c0d2935f82\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Can she assure the House that the discretionary Transition to Work grant has never been used to purchase or contribute to one-way fares to Australia for job seekers who have an offer of employment there? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b04acd6be5945d28ddb4344aa2fa63f\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said, no, I cannot, particularly because it has been around since 2007. So it was actually introduced under the previous Labour Government. The legislation is actually silent on that, and I cannot give a guarantee, that far back, as to whether or not that has happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224161977a7e3e4585846420883871a00a\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Does she know what is going on with her own front-line services, given that I have been informed of a meeting where Work and Income managers confirmed that Work and Income had offered financial assistance to job seekers to travel to Australia to take up employment? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fb88230d3864bb0acd76f4530ee334e\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: If the member has evidence of that, I would be very interested in seeing it. It is not my expectation. It is not the expectation of the policy intent. However, it is case managers who distribute it. It has been made very clear to them that they should not be paying for any airfares overseas, and, as far as I have seen to date, I do not have evidence of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba56eb23511b423192a3aad277a46f24\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Will she investigate whether or not, and how often, the Transition to Work grant has been used to purchase tickets to Australia for job seekers? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b73aafe2a154fa5a35bfbebdd316fb4\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, because I would be very unhappy to see that as common practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022516e7bb61b014977acf03bca47809250\u0022\u003EPrimary Growth Partnership\u2014Successful Bids and Purpose\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022 data-id=\u002276574e9d90654cbf9d9050b44bb15879\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276574e9d90654cbf9d9050b44bb15879\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Primary Industries: What announcements has he recently made on boosting innovation in the New Zealand primary sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022df86b17e5e3f4ff6b63cefb87b016320\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df86b17e5e3f4ff6b63cefb87b016320\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (Minister for Primary Industries):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday I announced that the Government\u2019s Primary Growth Partnership is to fund half of an $87 million innovation programme proposed by one of New Zealand\u2019s leading meat exporters, ANZCO Foods. The programme will identify opportunities to create new, high-value food ingredients and health care products. This announcement lifts the total Government-industry investment in the Primary Growth Partnership to $665 million\u2014further proof of this Government\u2019s commitment to lift economic growth through primary sector innovation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220800967b09234eeba27ee89d63d2d04a\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government focusing on increasing innovation and improving productivity in the primary sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ec65c2757bc478c99c82b03ae15ce86\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: This Government has set an ambitious target of increasing exports from 30 percent to 40 percent of GDP. As the primary sector makes up 72 percent of New Zealand\u2019s merchandise export and is the backbone of the New Zealand economy, increasing innovation and improving productivity are essential means of achieving this target.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022299449a8c5124e0b97f7e57b9ed2b09f\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Primary Growth Partnership been successful in providing innovation funding to a wide range of firms and sectors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da553bb3c46d4ef391e0a8349da2e558\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it certainly has. Thanks to this collaborative Government-industry approach, we have projects under way across a complete range of sectors, from dairy to arable, to red meat, to wool, to forestry, to seafood, to aquaculture, and to m\u0101nuka honey. Over $300 million of Government funding has been committed to a wide range of firms, such as Zespri, Comvita, and Brownrigg Agriculture. Even the Young Farmers organisation is involved in the Beef and Lamb project. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bbeff43d53b4431b9210d4c3da54b607\u0022\u003ENew Zealand - Australia Migration\u2014Numbers, Reasons, and Income Gap\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002288adfb6266e141eab84205505808cbdd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288adfb6266e141eab84205505808cbdd\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement regarding migration to Australia \u201CWhat\u2019s the point of standing in the airport crying about it?\u201D; if so, how many people have left permanently for Australia since he took office in November 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002207334dd61ec74e35a05f9f04954b77cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207334dd61ec74e35a05f9f04954b77cc\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E As I said in answer to the same question from the member on 24 July, 25 July, 26 July, and 1 August, yes. My full statement was \u201CWhat\u2019s the point of standing in the airport crying about it? We\u2019ve just got to compete. They can pay more but it\u2019s hot and there\u2019s lots of flies. We pay less but you can go for a bike ride at lunchtime.\u201D Statistics New Zealand reports 173,715 people migrated to Australia in that time period. I note that in this period 59,000 people migrated from Australia to New Zealand, leaving a net outward migration of 114,000. There are signs that this migration is levelling off. I note that in the 9 years to October 2008, despite benign economic conditions, 310,000 people left for Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdb7aa615b664e8ca9e9242dd82719b6\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Given that more than 173,000 people have left for Australia since he took office in 2008, and the year to October 2012 saw 53,695 Kiwis leave, does he agree that his Government has failed to fulfil its 2008 promise to reduce the number of people leaving for Australia? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7a78c1d2af54d0983fa570ab3b8f793\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No. I think the reason that there has been higher out-migration has been pretty straightforward. Australia had a once-in-a-century boom in its resource prices. That means that up until recently it has been sheltered from the effects of the global financial crisis. The out-migration is directly proportional to the fact that Australia\u2019s growth rate was higher than New Zealand\u2019s. Over the next few years they look to be pretty similar, and that is why the out-migration is likely to slow down and the number leaving Australia to come to New Zealand, which was 59,000 in the 4 years that the member referred to, is likely to increase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022886238ae158b45dca15bc429b407fbc9\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that the 173,715 New Zealanders who have left for Australia represent 4 percent of New Zealand\u2019s total population, which is more than the population of Hamilton, more than the population of Napier and Hastings combined, and equivalent to Dunedin and Invercargill combined?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e69e21d416404c0bba3aa32b3356f513\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I would believe those numbers if they came from Statistics New Zealand and not from the Opposition spokesman on finance; in this case I would have to divide them by seven to get it right. But he is probably right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fa791d729b446d3b5ef6fe49c36c0c2\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that the New Zealanders leaving for Australia in record numbers are doing so because of low wages and a lack of jobs in New Zealand; if not, why are 54,000 Kiwis leaving for Australia every year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5d234093ac345b19fe3a8739ef48f54\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As I explained to the member, and which I think he knows, in around 2007 Australia experienced a once-in-100-years more than doubling of its commodity prices. That gave Australia a large, unexpected increase in income, and that has meant high wages, which have attracted New Zealanders. Over the next few years our growth rates are pretty similar, around 2.5 to 3.5 percent, and I would expect that those flows will slow down a bit. The main thing for us to do is to focus on the competitiveness of our businesses so that they can, for instance, grow their businesses and exports to Australia, and can employ more New Zealanders to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cab52bb749ac4ddebafdb4de767de7b8\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the wage gap between Australia and New Zealand continued to widen\u2014using the purchase price parity figure that the Prime Minister prefers to use, it is now $27.73 a week wider under his Government\u2014after he campaigned in 2008 to narrow the gap?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f84cd14e891249bd830f26ee605c87e0\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: We could argue about how to measure the wage gap. As the member will know, because of New Zealand\u2019s tax changes our after-tax incomes are actually much closer to Australia\u2019s than those figures would indicate. Actually, when you look at the Australian figures, it is surprising. If you take out the Western Australia wage rates, it makes a significant difference. In fact, if you take out Western Australia growth rates, the Australian and New Zealand economies and wages have grown at pretty similar rates through the last 3 or 4 years. Last year Western Australia grew at 14 percent. That is almost one and a half times the growth rate in China, and, frankly, we are going to have to focus very hard on competitiveness of our businesses to be able to match the enormous wages paid in Western Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022622ec874139a4118af2c04a5be269f84\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: In light of recent migration trends and their impact on the housing market, what reports has the Minister received detailing alternative approaches to housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221e243772e6346668dabdbdff9b89912\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Migration trends do have a significant impact on housing. Just how many houses those migrants might need, of course, depends on whether you get your numbers wrong by 700 percent, as became apparent in the answer to a question in the House last week, where our spokesperson pointed out that building 100,000 houses over 10 years requires one house to be built every hour, night and day, for an entire decade. The Opposition spokesman on finance, however, thinks that that adds up to 600,000 houses, not 100,000 houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f8d4340cd2fe456dbee9c09f092b21a8\u0022\u003EWhite Paper for Vulnerable Children\u2014Expert Advisory Group on Information Security\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf485f3c59fa4d13a6f49cd3892dfd88\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf485f3c59fa4d13a6f49cd3892dfd88\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: What announcements has she made on the Expert Advisory Group on Information Security, who will oversee the development of the initiatives in the Government\u2019s White Paper for Vulnerable Children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00225d0ae2bbe2324cf486b6f10741d717a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d0ae2bbe2324cf486b6f10741d717a2\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Today we have announced the appointment of the former Governor-General the Rt Hon Sir Anand Satyanand to lead the Expert Advisory Group on Information Security. The Vulnerable Kids Information System and the new risk predictor tool are vital in strengthening protections for vulnerable children. The group will ensure these tools are secure and easy for front-line professionals to use while also balancing privacy and security considerations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206305c212b634774ba6b7e8e4fc46bae\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: What will the expert group focus on in regard to the Vulnerable Kids Information System, known as ViKi, and the risk protector tool?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022183c157df62e4f10b64a3281a40d5f3a\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this group will oversee the entire implementation, but there are particular issues with the implementation, I think, that I have asked them to really centre in on. When you are looking at that information, it is who has access to it, what kind of information is stored, should you know if your name is on it or your child\u2019s is, how long should we keep it, and can you access it in 20 years. These are the sorts of difficult but, I think, really important things that this group needs to investigate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c154f532b2a4d6b99b185d81da1a7a1\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Vulnerable Kids Information System and the risk predictor tool work to protect vulnerable children better from abuse and neglect?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb6d713fc4004f50a0a3eb8a30fcf9ea\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The most vital part of the whole information system is that it is putting the pieces together from different professionals, so that you know what children are in there, what everyone knows about them, and you can put it together. For all of the cases that I have seen\u2014whether they be coroners\u2019 reports, to the Mel Smith inquiry on children, to the evidence from both overseas and locally\u2014if you see a child who has been hideously abused or even killed, if a professional had been able to put all of the pieces together, I believe they would have acted differently. This tool does that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229f38986a9237428588dd614ebe8bb6a5\u0022\u003ESchools\u2014Food Programmes and Funding\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002252869f4c0ae74177a9420031eae88404\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252869f4c0ae74177a9420031eae88404\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does she agree with all of the statements the Prime Minister has made regarding food in schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u002268aa395cb7e942b09b9d2330c706eec0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268aa395cb7e942b09b9d2330c706eec0\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do agree with all the Prime Minister\u2019s statements, as everyone does who is ambitious for this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022570b502d923445d9a2d6a564d54dd3c1\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by the statement that if the Government does not take action to provide food in schools \u201Cwe are effectively punishing children for the sins of their parents.\u201D, or does she stand by the alternative statement that \u201Cthe fundamental responsibility lies with the parents of those children to feed them.\u201D\u2014the first one made before the National Government was elected, and the second one made after?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b88de9d8656b4626a48eef4fed1016d1\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, both are right, and I completely agree because the full statement that was made in 2007 was that we need to \u201Cchallenge the business community to work with us in backing a programme of providing food in low-decile schools for kids in need.\u201D In fact, Fonterra and Sanitarium have stepped up to that challenge and provide 35,000 breakfasts a week to 534 schools, feeding 22,000 students. Since we came into Government in 2009 we have provided $940,000 of funding to KidsCan for their Food for Kids programme, so both are correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f444765f88c74ff6bf0c2506bc15b5d3\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by the statement: \u201Cit\u2019s a fact that kids can\u2019t and don\u2019t learn if they are constantly hungry. Their brains don\u2019t develop properly and they can\u2019t stay focused in the classroom.\u201D; if so, exactly what, in addition to the funding for KidsCan, has the Government done to increase the provision of food in schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244171bb1e9b04118a43944dbd5ad2908\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: This Government has increased and improved the Fruit in Schools programme. When we came in, Labour was funding it at $12 million, of which almost $6 million was going on administration. We have made it more efficient, but we have now\u2014[Interruption] We have made it more efficient, and we are providing fruit to\u2014let me see\u2014480 decile 1 and 2 schools currently participating, being about almost 97,000 children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022073f0d0bb9ad44a3847f5d0a7eb2c4fb\u0022\u003ENikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing in this area?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227385ea428e8b4a208aba365ea1d6611c\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: First and foremost, I would like to acknowledge all the parents and families who work really hard to ensure that their children have the food that they need. What the Government does is supplement that, as I have already indicated, through the Fruit in Schools scheme\u2014nearly 97,000 students\u2014since 2009 and $940,000 to KidsCan for 4,500 children a day in 223 schools. And we make available, through the Ministry of Social Development, special-needs grants for families, much of which goes on food and which was $46 million in 2011, and, of course, our Government invests billions in the welfare system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260120a3a5a414848928c8d61acc1fccd\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister suggesting that giving a child a piece of fruit at morning tea time is sufficient nutrition for them to be able to maintain their focus on learning during the day?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220118516d4a734b72a8e286c8ae9c2506\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, this supplements, first and foremost, what parents, families, wh\u0101nau, and aiga provide for their children. But in some cases it might be. There are children who do have fruit for breakfast. In fact, under the previous administration its Healthy Eating - Healthy Action programme was trying to make our children eat fruit for breakfast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c63bb27e3944448b945584f760eae766\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Government believe that spending $562,000 on sports funding for private schools is more important than fulfilling the Prime Minister\u2019s pre-election promise to provide food in schools for vulnerable kids, given that the funding provided for KidsCan is barely half that amount?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223e5e22cc3bd47b3ac8632915f26c5a1\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: It is not an either/or; we provide both. Why do we think it is legitimate? Because, in fact, although private schools make up 3.5 percent of our schooling system, each year they contribute $168 million net to our education system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c0f965eefa946139b752e29b7755e7e\u0022\u003EDrugs, Control\u2014Animal Testing of Psychoactive Substances\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022 data-id=\u00225d6d0b57d3064bd683a8a0c38784e503\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d6d0b57d3064bd683a8a0c38784e503\u0022\u003EMOJO MATHERS (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Health: Other than the LD50 test, will he rule out other animal tests for the pending psychoactive substances testing regime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea46ad09fd7c4d56b08481109ddd38a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea46ad09fd7c4d56b08481109ddd38a0\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E With regard to psychoactive substances, I have directed the Ministry of Health to develop a regulatory regime consistent with international best practice and avoiding animal testing wherever possible. The standards for approval for psychoactive substances will be set by an independent expert committee to be established early next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022395a93fdea04454ab35dede45c594b18\u0022\u003EMojo Mathers\u003C/span\u003E: Why is there not a single non-animal testing option included in the Ministry of Health\u2019s testing regime recommendation paper dated March 2012?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e9fef6afa3c442b9fa16730ed145818\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: There have been a number of alternative options proposed. They are all to be considered by the expert committee. I should make the point that the material that was the subject of the release last week, which got the weekend publicity, was neither ministry advice nor Government policy. They were comments contained in a report from an independent toxicologist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022755ee26b4da84732b55f69a26facd0bf\u0022\u003EMojo Mathers\u003C/span\u003E: How does he reconcile that omission with the purpose set out in Part 6 of the Animal Welfare Act to \u201Creplace animals as subjects for research, and testing by substituting where appropriate, non-sentient or non-living alternatives:\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f64f0eadf9a4293ac5f1ea1473a45d7\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: I am not attempting to reconcile the two statements for this reason. The material that the member refers to, which was the basis of the publicity at the weekend, was neither official advice to the Ministry of Health nor a statement of Government policy, but a statement by an independent toxicologist. The expert committee that I referred to in my original answer, in developing the standards for approval, will obviously be guided by all relevant pieces of legislation, including the legislation to which the member has referred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d65711dbf3364ff98a7ee0c40e3390ac\u0022\u003EMojo Mathers\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Ministry of Health report from March 2012, which outlines the proposed safety testing regime and it is called Regulations governing the control of novel psychoactive drugs defining parameters associated with toxicity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022962826d4eba74295b4879d28c75b1467\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d6529f4400d4d518d854999bd62ec1d\u0022\u003EMojo Mathers\u003C/span\u003E: So will he now commission a report into non-animal options for safety testing of new recreational drugs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da79e632df6b46cabb7dbb163d7b188c\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: Can I repeat for the member\u2019s benefit my original answer. I have directed the Ministry of Health in developing the regulatory regime consistent with international best practice to look at avoiding animal testing wherever possible. As I said earlier, the precise regime will be developed by the independent expert committee, which will be established early next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ecafb27a45a0424185878a34113ee741\u0022\u003ECanterbury, Recovery\u2014Progress on Repair and Rebuilding of Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u002218a23d4198d0434ba8cb8429832d37c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218a23d4198d0434ba8cb8429832d37c6\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National\u2014Christchurch Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery: What progress is the Government making with rebuilding and repairing residential homes in Christchurch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00225884ef7bdaa147578a689486e293b85d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225884ef7bdaa147578a689486e293b85d\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is making considerable progress with the repair and rebuild of residential homes damaged by the Canterbury earthquakes. The Earthquake Commission, through the Fletcher programme, has repaired 28,058 homes. This means that nearly one-third of the homes damaged with under $100,000 of value in that damage have been completed. Total payouts by the commission for building, land, and contents claims now exceed $4 billion. Southern Response, which handles 6,651 claims for the AMI bailout, has settled 1,838 claims. More important, over 99 percent of customers\u2019 assessments have been completed. Southern Response is scheduling 1,000 builds and rebuilds in this next construction season into 2013. All land in Canterbury has now been zoned. Over 7,800 properties have gone red and over 180,000 properties have been zoned green. Insurers are reporting a gearing-up of resources to deliver rebuilds and repairs in the year ahead. In addition, the horizontal infrastructure repair and rebuild under the Stronger Christchurch Infrastructure Rebuild Team is now invoicing $40 million a month across multiple civil construction sites.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ead03bb0bb64bd4898d1c39b079ef9c\u0022\u003ENicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: What has been the acceptance of the red zone offer for homeowners on the worst-affected land?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d89ff30440974df5b5610ba381f478f3\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: To date, of the 7,022 people who have received the Crown offer, 6,369 homeowners have signed a sale and purchase agreement with the Crown. The Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority has already settled 5,173 properties. This is a very positive and strong response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290efb39053d44a8ca42d3051de19fa07\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Will he allow people living in perfectly habitable houses in the residential red zone to remain there for a bit longer, given that their new properties will not be ready to move into by the final settlement date of 30 April next year\u2014one of the requests that was made in the open letter to the Prime Minister today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fdd98dd3cd9415b9d33969a21057a22\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Given that to do that there would have to be maintenance of access and also infrastructure to those homes, it would need to be assessed on a case by case basis but I would have to say it is unlikely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f7fb005d2d545858e42f642d029c364\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the open letter to the Prime Minister of New Zealand from the representatives of seven groups in Christchurch that rallied on Saturday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4dee25271394412ad1b3594685e4a50\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dc5b6d72c1b42ca9935453c4184670c\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table three letters: one dated 1 November from me to the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery as a follow-up from the cross-party forum, where all parties raised concerns about those in the red zone who will not have properties ready to move into by 30 April; a reply from the Hon Gerry Brownlee on 19 November; and my subsequent plea to him to reconsider of 21 November.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286fbefde0003443a98a3290e9529eb0a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? [Interruption] Order! Is there any objection? There is objection. There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b2147b7e51b41f2bb3167cfa6c567e4\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002292524de5478f41a6a677f5d49a19a610\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u2014Inquiry into Allegations Against Member and Expulsion from Party\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u002220e3f688c8974786a444f7e9093b36d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220e3f688c8974786a444f7e9093b36d5\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to make a personal explanation under Standing Order 354.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9d615f3342349ada4689ba97b73ee7d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f268c5c557748adaa1bd858731c1a7f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you to the House. In recent weeks a number of allegations have been made against Mr Horan, most of which arise from a family matter, and Mr Horan is an MP in New Zealand First. The allegations are of a nature that requires they should be treated seriously\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022745861eb9243407097c0981049e257dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022745861eb9243407097c0981049e257dd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise for interrupting the right honourable member, but a personal explanation can be made only with regard to a matter relating to the member personally. If the matter that he is describing does impinge on the right honourable gentleman personally, then he is perfectly at liberty to make the personal explanation, but a member cannot make a personal explanation on matters relating to another member, and I am absolutely certain I am right in that matter. I do apologise for interrupting, but the member must relate the personal explanation to matters that affect him personally. Does the member wish to continue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce17fc4df2f14b429e2be877a4573b2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce17fc4df2f14b429e2be877a4573b2c\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E The fact is that a number of serious allegations have been made. I was required to conduct as full an inquiry as I could, and I want to report the results of my personal inquiry to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f02f4231a2d24b7db3b8415059b0ce5c\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022207a8e6ef45042f48b0e9d6a41aa1097\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022207a8e6ef45042f48b0e9d6a41aa1097\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Because I do not want to act unilaterally, I will hear the Hon Trevor Mallard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00227fb109801aee48da9e8840908290150e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227fb109801aee48da9e8840908290150e\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I think there was possibly an error on the House\u2019s part at the beginning, because normally when people ask to make personal explanations, they are asked for an explanation, which then restricts the area on which they can comment. The problem that we have as a House is that we have granted leave\u2014which you are now bound to protect, I think\u2014without restricting the area in a way that we now appear to be retrospectively trying to do. I think if the honourable gentleman had explained it was about Mr Horan, the House would have said no. I think if he said it was about an investigation that he had undertaken, we would have said yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022aeeeaab464b34158a7355fb9ce8be1dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aeeeaab464b34158a7355fb9ce8be1dc\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, you are not in a difficult position. The member sought leave to make a personal explanation\u2014that is all. If it is not a personal explanation, leave is not granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002245d00258e17d46d18d679ea843623d82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245d00258e17d46d18d679ea843623d82\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: To go back to the point raised by the Hon Trevor Mallard, he is correct, and I blame myself. I should have sought from the Rt Hon Winston Peters a brief indication of what the matter was that he wished to make a personal explanation about. I failed to do that, and I blame myself for that. However, a personal explanation is a personal explanation, and the issue around which the member wishes to make a personal explanation must relate to that member himself. A member cannot make a personal explanation about other matters, and an investigation into other matters does not constitute a personal explanation. The allegation that a member is responding to must relate to a matter affecting the member personally. Even though the House may have granted leave for a personal explanation to be made, if one is not forthcoming, then it is not in order to proceed. There are already Speakers\u2019 rulings that cover that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u002208e66d2aeb084b30a8a2e5273be78d03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208e66d2aeb084b30a8a2e5273be78d03\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have plenty of precedent for what I am seeking to do. You will recall that in 1996 I sought leave to explain the future of one of the members of the New Zealand First caucus, and that was granted. It was seen as being personal enough, being the leader of a party, for it to be relevant and within the ambit of Standing Order 354. No one else has conducted the inquiry; I have. I am bound to report a most serious matter to this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00229dc66f07d83d4000885d7556dae65cac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229dc66f07d83d4000885d7556dae65cac\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, I also invite you to balance the various Speakers\u2019 rulings that there are as to what is a personal matter\u2014and the leader of the New Zealand First Party has indicated that he is going to outline some work that he has personally been doing\u2014with the longstanding and, I think, never tipped over Speaker\u2019s ruling that leave, once given, cannot be withdrawn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b00f55f8a56449e0b31874943f543095\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Can I speak to that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022e96dacdf95e441638e41d3330ec8d416\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e96dacdf95e441638e41d3330ec8d416\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear from the Hon Gerry Brownlee because I accept that there is an important issue, and I certainly do not want to unreasonably constrain the rights of a member of this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca053ab7d3bb43bfa6fab663a0092c41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca053ab7d3bb43bfa6fab663a0092c41\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, I think I will just point you to Speaker\u2019s ruling 134/5. It is very clear what a personal explanation is, and that is longstanding in the House. You are right to say that if someone proceeds to discuss something that is not personal to them and involving them personally, it is not provided for in this provision. However, the House is the master of its own destiny, and maybe a way through this would be for the member to seek leave to make a statement on a matter that relates to an investigation into another member of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00229520deedbe6449be92bb130c808d6ee7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229520deedbe6449be92bb130c808d6ee7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House is certainly the master of its own destiny, and my concern about the personal explanation process is that although a Speaker in the past may have made an unusual ruling, the rulings are very clear. The Leader of the House has referred to 134/5. This is a longstanding, accepted requirement that a personal explanation must relate to an allegation made against the person seeking to make the explanation. I am prepared to rule that the personal explanation granted leave will not continue, because it is not a personal explanation. But I am perfectly happy for the member\u2014I am not sure how best to handle this now, whether the member seeks the leave of the House. It is probably best for the member to seek the leave of the House to make a statement, and the House is at liberty to grant that leave, should the member wish to do that on that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d396370feca4bc9b6121fa0147c8dcc\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288af29deb9bc4a0e9795563bf84fed42\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear first from the Hon John Banks, as I have not heard from him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022 data-id=\u00228a47413ac27b473c88c15d3119d5aec3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a47413ac27b473c88c15d3119d5aec3\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BANKS (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I would seek leave of the House for the Rt Hon Winston Peters to make a statement to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8fd4db36d484f85b66695b376840aad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8fd4db36d484f85b66695b376840aad\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is\u2014[Interruption] I think it is probably more appropriate for the member himself to seek leave to make a statement to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e74e0f433eea4d6d901e2650d3a94e86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e74e0f433eea4d6d901e2650d3a94e86\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to make a serious statement to the House, and not a long one at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f19e0794cd4438193b91fffc3fd7b19\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Identifying the matter so the House knows exactly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022967f55013a1b4ec3837b0ad809955218\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Identifying the substance and result of an inquiry into the allegations made about Brendan Horan MP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226993149240f049dda690bbd9f6a18340\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298eab430e1f94b28a5976430a1c2a732\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the House. In recent weeks a number of allegations have been made against Mr Horan, most of which arise from a family matter. The allegations are of a nature that requires that they should be treated seriously. Accordingly, I requested from the original complainant and those associated with him evidence to support their allegations. I also instructed Mr Horan to give every priority to resolving this family matter, so that I could be assured that those allegations were without foundation. Until a few days ago, we had not been furnished with any evidentiary material from any of the parties in this dispute. However, substantive material has now come into my possession, some as recent as 2.15 p.m. this afternoon. The information we have received leaves me in a position where I have no confidence in Mr Horan\u2019s ability to continue as a member of Parliament, and he will be expelled from the New Zealand First caucus forthwith. Mr Horan has a duty, I believe, to resign as a member of Parliament. Lastly, this is a bitterly regrettable situation, but we had to place our decision on the public record as soon as we were in a position to make it. The nature of this inquiry means that I am unable to make any further comment outside of Parliament. I seek leave to table this statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00222280a7c236804f3eaf35789c3763176f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222280a7c236804f3eaf35789c3763176f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022678267fa0f9f43549c2b9cf679c55dad\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2011/12 Financial Review) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b7bad901207343c0b1cf143cdceed564\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9bf9ca1b1044d538559f0667ec4509c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9bf9ca1b1044d538559f0667ec4509c\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Appropriation (2011/12 Financial Review) Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00228d8f8cd254b84f01845b0254b3751aa3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d8f8cd254b84f01845b0254b3751aa3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. Those of that opinion will say Aye, to the contrary, No. The Ayes have it. This bill is set down for second reading next sitting day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278da9d2c222243149763d59877959fc6\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249c5fbf3aad64dbeb6534f81485c07ec\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I did not hear the member call. This is purely procedural. I do not think it is the end of the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022317de1de8d504de885b2a5bf768fc819\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022317de1de8d504de885b2a5bf768fc819\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Musterer\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E With the closing of question time, there was all the kerfuffle in the Chamber and you could not hear. I yelled it out pretty loudly. So I urge that the Green Party vote can be recorded on this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00224c06ee635947486aae0c5a41789f1a18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c06ee635947486aae0c5a41789f1a18\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the House can go back. The Speaker has already announced the result of the first reading. Does the House wish me to go back? It is purely procedural. The vote is put without debate, and it is something that is standard. I think the House really can proceed. There will be plenty of opportunity to debate these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00224fb30dc1a043435ebf8dcd2e464e1a65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224fb30dc1a043435ebf8dcd2e464e1a65\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member called No, as the member, I am assured, did, because he was heard by members this far away, if not your distance away. I am not sure whether he called for a party vote. But, given the hubbub, I think it would be reasonable for a vote to be held.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd57e68edf7b4aeb959315b6465f4ed6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd57e68edf7b4aeb959315b6465f4ed6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I must make the point that just because a member votes No does not mean a party vote will be held. A member must call for a party vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022510532f8566849569c714dcc9abf472f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022510532f8566849569c714dcc9abf472f\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Just in support of the musterer for the Greens, I did see his lips moving very clearly calling for a party vote through the noise. So there is no doubt in my mind that that was his intention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00222718a6cf07b84f458f1531ea93dbe9f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222718a6cf07b84f458f1531ea93dbe9f4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am prepared, under the circumstances, to go back, but I stress to the House that this is purely a procedural matter. Members have hours to debate the financial reviews. This is purely a vote to get the House in a position to be able to debate the financial reviews. If members want a party vote on that, so be it. Let me go back then and put the question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022db420d9e478841338fc5c92cb36d1472\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Appropriation (2011/12 Financial Review) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221042f4714ccb423da7c398730abbb537\u0022\u003ECallaghan Innovation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229828a7a373b840f09471350ec4db84cb\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u00220723ae79172b4a2ea56e69794747deae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220723ae79172b4a2ea56e69794747deae\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Science and Innovation):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Callaghan Innovation Bill be now read a third time. This is a special day in a special year for New Zealand\u2019s science and innovation community. This bill is the latest evidence of this Government\u2019s absolute commitment to the growth and development of New Zealand\u2019s science and innovation system, alongside initiatives like the National Science Challenges, increased investment in basic research, increased investment in engineers and scientists\u2014in fact, 50-odd changes as part of our Building Innovation stream of the Business Growth Agenda. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EAn important part of the Government\u2019s Business Growth Agenda is ensuring that there are better linkages between business, science, engineering, and design so that great ideas are commercialised and generate income and jobs for New Zealanders. This bill provides the legislative framework for establishing Callaghan Innovation as a high-tech HQ for New Zealand businesses. Callaghan Innovation will be a one-stop shop offering high-tech New Zealand companies the business innovation support they need, whether it be in science, engineering, design, or technology, in order to become successful internationally. The organisation carries the name of the late Sir Paul Callaghan in recognition of his belief that science was not only about great ideas but also about getting value from those ideas through innovation and commercialisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EAlongside the passage of this bill through the House the Government is currently finalising the detailed design of Callaghan Innovation to have it under way by 1 February next year. Cabinet will shortly consider its accountability and performance framework, what business innovation support functions will be transferred from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, and how Callaghan Innovation will align with New Zealand Trade and Enterprise to ensure there is no wrong door for businesses accessing these sorts of Government services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders are great at coming up with smart ideas, but we do need to be better at turning those ideas into commercially successful high-tech products that we can then sell to the world. We need science, engineering, and design expertise joined at the hip on product development. We must encourage an entrepreneurial spark amongst our science and research community. New Zealand is blessed with outstanding entrepreneurs and outstanding scientists, but we are not yet as successful as we need to be when it comes to converting ideas and intellectual property into business success. The challenge in this case is to fire up more of our young scientists so that they see starting their own business, joining a start-up team, or joining an established innovation business as a viable alternative\u2014or, indeed, addition\u2014to an academic career. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EIn many ways the pathway has been established, with some of our top businesses coming from entrepreneurs who have over many years applied innovative thinking to home-grown science and engineering. The challenge for Callaghan Innovation will be to accelerate that activity to help more firms reach that level of success by connecting them with the know-how and the facilities that they need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EBased in Auckland, Wellington\u2014including the Hutt Valley\u2014and Christchurch, Callaghan Innovation will be strongly business focused and responsive to commercial needs. Its initial focus will be on industries with high growth potential, such as food and beverage manufacturing, agricultural technologies, digital technologies, health technologies, therapeutics, and high-value wood products. Callaghan Innovation will offer value-adding services such as product testing and analysis, access to specialised expertise and facilities, national measurement and standards work, commercialisation advice, and, of course, its own research. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003ECollaboration will be the key. As well as offering its own services, Callaghan Innovation must improve connectivity between businesses and the significant but highly distributed capability that exists across New Zealand\u2019s many public and private research organisations and within businesses themselves. It will build partnerships to maximise commercialisation opportunities and develop global connections through which New Zealand companies can access international expertise and keep abreast of technology trends and market opportunities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EIt will also manage the Government\u2019s business research and development co-funding streams. However, it will not be responsible for allocating contestable science funding. That will continue to be administered by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment. Much of the foundation of Callaghan Innovation will come from the assets and staff of Industrial Research Ltd, which will become a subsidiary company of the new organisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe Government sees greater business innovation as a key to growing the economy. There is a big gap in private sector investment in research and development in New Zealand. Although there are many reasons for that, research shows that if we can increase business research and development expenditure, that will help drive economic growth. So the Government has set a goal of raising the amount that firms spend on research and development from the current 0.54 percent of GDP to at least 1 percent of GDP, and we see Callaghan Innovation playing a critical role in helping to leverage that greater investment. The success of Callaghan Innovation will be measured by how many companies it helps to become research and development capable, how many spend more on research and development, and, most of all, how many it helps to innovate to become more competitive and lift New Zealand\u2019s exports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EI firmly believe that Callaghan Innovation will be a great step forward in New Zealand\u2019s plan to achieve faster growth through the application of our innovation and of our Kiwi ingenuity. I commend this bill to the House for adoption.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022c788862378d34fe394a90300f927c1d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c788862378d34fe394a90300f927c1d0\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E As the Minister of Science and Innovation said, this should have been an important day for New Zealand science and for our growth agenda, and for the place of science and innovation in New Zealand\u2019s economic future. Instead, what we have is an overwhelming sense of underwhelming. People see this as an opportunity lost and an opportunity squandered by this Government. A significant amount of money is being invested into establishing the Callaghan institute, and we on this side of the House fear that it will fail to deliver. We are voting for this legislation, the Callaghan Innovation Bill, because we want to see it succeed, but throughout the passage of this bill through the House and through the Education and Science Committee we have pointed to a number of flaws that we see in this model. We still urge the establishment committee, which has been given an incredibly wide remit under an incredibly permissive piece of legislation, to take into account some of these concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThis is a National Government opposite that has, since the lead-up to the 2008 election, promised big on science and innovation, but, like in so many areas, it is full of big talk and grand ideas but broken promises. Over and over we hear this, that this is a Government that is committed to science and innovation and research and development. Let us have a look at its election 2008 promise, where it promised to put a third of the funding that it was going to crib back by cutting the research and development tax credit into other areas of science and innovation funding. This would have amounted to around $315 million over 3 years. Well, $100 million over 4 years was found, but this was largely from underspends in previous years. This was money carried forward. This is a whole lot of creative accounting from the Government opposite, and not only creative accounting but also the reversal of commitments. What we have seen is that this is a Government that is not committed to science and innovation. It is a Government that has slashed postdoctoral funding in this country. If anyone on the other side of the House thinks we can have an economy that is based on science and innovation without adequately funding the critical phase of postdoctoral research, they are kidding themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe Callaghan institute and our future in advanced manufacturing lie in the fact that we will have the scientists and the engineers with the necessary experience to staff this institute, and the Government is just not committed to that. Even worse than slashing the postdoctoral funding\u2014and it does not get much worse than that if you want an economy based on this\u2014the Government is going to stop that. It is going to solve that problem. People will not get to be postdocs in this country, because this is a Government that will not give the student allowance for people to do doctoral research any more. It is not something that it sees as important. We can talk big about the role of science and innovation, big ideas, clever ideas, and smart New Zealanders and what they can contribute to this country, but members opposite will not even back New Zealanders to go on and do Master\u2019s or PhD research. I would be very interested to hear how they think we can have an economy that is based on science and innovation within this climate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E What we have seen is that this is a Government trying to make a big deal out of a whole lot of new funding with this. It is trying to catch up, and it is saying that there is $166 million going into this. The reality is that only a small fraction of this is new funding. It is about shifting the deckchairs, and there has been a lot of shifting of the deckchairs in this portfolio. If we have a look at the ever-changing movement of the department that administers science and innovation in this country, and we look at the cost of just one of the re-brands for the Ministry of Science and Innovation, $420,000 was spent on coming up with the new name and the new logo. It was all meant to be about the importance that we place on science and innovation\u2014$420k was spent for an 18-month iteration. Is this good use of science and innovation funding? No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut, as we have said throughout the passage of this legislation, we have three main concerns with the current legislation and things that we urge to be addressed. We heard the Minister talking about the need for there to be collaboration. It is our fear that this is an organisation being set up that makes collaboration inherently difficult, fraught, and full of tensions, and central to this is our concern over the funder/provider division. The other concern we have is that in order for this to work, the right people need to be having input and giving this organisation direction. And what we have not seen from Government members is a commitment to setting up the structures that mean the right people can have input into this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut I think one of the most concerning things for me is that after all this time, all this public relations spend and the newsletters that are going out that are meant to be informing people of what is going on, we have our scientific community begging the ministry and the Government to please tell them what is going on. People within the scientific community simply have no idea what the Callaghan institute is going to be, and, actually, members opposite will be very light on detail, as well. As I said, this is incredibly permissive legislation. It is going to be set up by 1 February, but the detail\u2014the incredibly important detail that will dictate whether or not this organisation succeeds or fails\u2014has yet to be fleshed out, and when we have the very scientists who are meant to be working with and in this organisation saying \u201CPlease tell us what it is\u201D, I have real concerns. We are into December. This is going to be up and running by 1 February 2013, we are told. But we are being told lots of dates for the establishment of the Callaghan institute, so we will watch with interest for that 1 February date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe see that this is a bill that once again reflects National\u2019s lacklustre and half-baked approach to science and innovation policy. It does not see the interconnections throughout the other parts of the Government, and it certainly does not reflect a Government that is committed to taking hold of our economy, being hands-on, and being the force that will drive economic growth in this country. As I have talked about, in order to achieve benefit to New Zealand the Callaghan institute needs to have robust and meaningful input from industry. It was a concern to committee members that, really, there was very little industry input into the select committee deliberation. We had one submission from the New Zealand Manufacturers and Exporters Association, which was the most meaningful industry input we had, and this was a submission that was negative about the ability of the structure being proposed in this legislation to deliver. It expressed extreme doubts, and in fact most of the submissions supporting the organisation pointed to concerns they had and asked for changes to be made\u2014changes that Government members have not been willing to make to the set-up of this organisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe institute must be set up so that it clearly marks out the area it works in. We are not seeing that. What we are seeing is an organisation being set up that others within the scientific network in New Zealand are fearful of. They have no idea where it sits within the landscape. They have no idea what its purview is, and they do not know the area in which it will be operating. We have asked for this to be cleared up throughout this legislation, but we have not seen it. We heard the Minister talk about collaboration being crucial, but the Minister was talking about collaboration between businesses, when you listened carefully to his speech. I guess what we on this side of the House realise is that if the Callaghan institute is to succeed, it needs to be able to collaborate not only with businesses\u2014something we are committed to seeing happen\u2014but also with the people who drive innovation in this country, the scientists and the engineers, and this is an organisation that is structurally not set up to address this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThere are also grave fears within the scientific community that the research focus required for real innovation to emerge is not there, and that this is an organisation that will not keep committed to the excellent research the Industrial Research Ltd is currently undertaking. This is a concern, because you cannot separate out commercialisation from basic and fundamental research. This is a hurried piece of legislation about which we would have liked to see more questions answered. We want to see it succeed, but Labour is supporting it with grave reservations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0965cb6ed914833afd91ffa325a3715\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0965cb6ed914833afd91ffa325a3715\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to speak today at the third reading of the Callaghan Innovation Bill. I would like to acknowledge again Sir Paul Callaghan, whom this institute is named after. I would also like to acknowledge members of the Education and Science Committee. I do believe that we worked in a collaborative process throughout the committee. We did have a tight time frame in which to turn this bill round, but I was very pleased that we made a huge effort as a committee to not only write to stakeholders but also provide a very lengthy commentary on the bill. I think it is pleasing that nearly all of the submitters supported this legislation. I also want to acknowledge that this is part of our wider plan and agenda to ensure that New Zealand stays ahead of our global competition. The bill helps to unlock the world-class potential of our scientists, and helps them to plug into businesses in the global market place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EBut the major purpose is to ensure that we get the best ideas out of the lab and into the market place more quickly. It will have operations in Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch, and the reason for this is that these operations will be close to clusters of likely business clients, making them as accessible as possible, especially to smaller firms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to also acknowledge the general approach of the select committee. As has already been said by a number of members, we decided purposely not to take an overly prescriptive approach. The reason for that was to give the institute the maximum ability to not only move with technology but also be not overly prescriptive in terms of the people it appoints to the organisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EA point that I would like to raise in this third reading is that collaboration was a very important point raised by a number of submitters. So Callaghan Innovation will exist within a flexible framework that will encourage innovation but also collaboration. We all know that silos have existed in the past and that they lead to greater compliance costs and time wasted for business. A key feature of Callaghan Innovation is to foster better connections between innovation expertise and facilities that will already exist within Callaghan Innovation, but, additionally, to link up Callaghan Innovation with New Zealand Crown research institutes, polytechnics, and other research organisations. During the select committee process we made a key change to the legislation to strengthen that collaboration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI think it is important to also acknowledge the dual function of Callaghan Innovation. The first function will be to fulfil a range of things, such as helping build industry-led innovation consortia\u2014acting as a portal through which businesses can access appropriate research and development and technical expertise, being a gateway to firms to access business research and development grants and commercialisation support, fostering the mobility of experts by, for example, sponsoring secondments between universities, and developing links with international research organisations to ensure local firms can connect with worldwide experience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe second key role of Callaghan Innovation is to be a service provider that is going to be offering businesses technology testing, applied research and development work on a contractual basis, business development, and technology and knowledge transfer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to briefly finish with some of the select committee changes. As I have already mentioned, there was a key change in the bill in terms of strengthening collaboration. We also made a change around the term \u201Cnet benefit\u201D to be clear that Callaghan Innovation must operate for the benefit of New Zealand. Thirdly, a number of issues were raised regarding the establishment board. I think it is very important at this point to acknowledge that the select committee made a lengthy commentary on the internal framework for research capacity. We outlined the issues that had been raised as a result of submissions. The Government has appointed a seven-member establishment board. The establishment board will play a critical role in making initial decisions relating to not only staffing requirements but also the exact location of the innovation centres in Auckland, Hutt Valley, and Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI think it is also important to note that this legislative framework must have funding, and that is why in 2012 our Budget delivered $250 million of new operating funding and $76.1 million in capital funding for science, innovation, and research. This reflects our belief that science and technological innovation are major drivers of growth. I think it is important to acknowledge that we are now spending $1.24 billion, which is a 17 percent increase over the last 4 years, in direct, cross-portfolio funding for science and innovation. There is $166 million going towards Callaghan Innovation. That is a huge amount of money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EIn summary, I am very pleased to have chaired the select committee on this bill. I believe that Callaghan Innovation will help firms from a range of backgrounds be more competitive, grow faster, and connect them with the scientific support that they need to develop and commercialise their ideas for the betterment of our country. That is good in terms of ensuring that New Zealanders have a higher standard of living. Callaghan Innovation will support firms at different stages of development, from start-ups to established research and development firms. Our Government wants to see more Kiwi businesses succeeding. We want to create a bridge between business, science, engineering, and design. We want to help our world-class scientists and businesses turn their great ideas into valuable products, more jobs, and higher incomes for Kiwis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to finish by thanking the members of the Education and Science Committee for their swift consideration of this very important bill. I feel privileged to be part of a process that will help see Callaghan Innovation up and running in early 2013. I want to acknowledge the man whom this is named after, because I do believe that this institute will be a great thing for New Zealand. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00226fcbae109e544f39b6d6e00fdef656a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fcbae109e544f39b6d6e00fdef656a0\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Just to follow on from the end of Nikki Kaye\u2019s speech, I think everyone in this House recognises the incredible contribution that Sir Paul Callaghan made to science in New Zealand and made to innovation in New Zealand. He was a person who drew together the work of the public and private sectors, perhaps in a way that few other New Zealanders have done. He was a man with a tremendous vision for what this country could be, the way that it could bring together its innovation, its talent, and its environment, and I think that that is something all New Zealanders should aspire to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis particular piece of legislation, the Callaghan Innovation Bill, the Labour Party is supporting, but we do so because we have the hope that the kind of vision that Sir Paul Callaghan had could be enhanced by an institute like Callaghan Innovation. However, where we stand today, I have to say that I am doubtful about that, given the model that has been placed in front of us by the Government. Everything about this piece of legislation, everything about the process that it has gone through\u2014with all due respect to the Education and Science Committee, it was a rushed process\u2014everything about the way that the advisory board has been set up, or not set up, and all of those things point to muddled, confused, and ad hoc thinking around research and development in New Zealand. That is what we have seen consistently from day one from this Government: muddled, confused, and ad hoc thinking around research and science. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe need research and science in this country to be working well, in a coordinated way and an innovative way, if we are going to see our economy grow in a sustainable fashion. Everything I see in this bill points to the fact that the Government still does not get that, and still has not grasped the fact that it actually needs to take more than just one-off decisions. It needs to have a greater plan for the way research and science will work in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI have got two or three specific concerns about this bill that I raised in the Committee stage and that I still do not feel have been resolved. The first of those is around the question of the functions of Callaghan Innovation, and the question of the allocation and administering of funding. Mr Joyce, in his speech just now, tried to reassure us that that would not be about contestable funding so much. Well, actually, it does not say that. It does not actually say that in the functions provisions. It is a very wide ambit that is now available to Callaghan Innovation to be involved in the allocation and administering of funding, and I do believe that this sets up a confused picture for the role of Crown research institutes vis-\u00E0-vis Government agencies that deliver funding. I do believe that in time it could lead to confused lines of accountability, and it could lead to conflict within the sector. I simply do not believe that that particular part of the functions of Callaghan Innovation should be there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I do want to speak about is around the question of the stakeholder advisory group. I am staggered that this Government still has in this legislation the provision that the advisory group \u201Cmay\u201D be established. This is essential. We heard from both Steven Joyce and Nikki Kaye about the importance of getting over the silos, of bringing together people from different parts of the research community, and yet the body that would best do that, in the form of the stakeholder advisory group, does not actually have to be established. I just find it remarkable that the Government is that lax about this. It is muddled, it is confused, and it is ad hoc. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EMore to the point, there is a lot of discussion about money and dollars, and we can all go back into that, but one thing that we do know is that this Government told New Zealanders when it discontinued Labour\u2019s research and development tax credit that that money would find its way back into research\u2014$315 million worth over 3 years. Well, that reality has not occurred. The Government has broken that promise. [Interruption] It has been $100 million over 4 years, Mr Woodhouse, not $315 million over 3 years. There is quite a big difference between those two figures, and that is a broken promise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut the broken promise that I want to mention in regard to research and science is about the pipeline of people who will actually be doing the research\u2014the scientists who actually do the work. In New Zealand we can be proud of the scientists who have been produced from our tertiary institutions, but in this legislation I see the Government\u2019s wilful neglect of science, scientists, and the training of scientists coming home to roost. The broken promise here is around the fact that nobody went to the people of New Zealand in 2011 and said: \u201CWe will abolish allowances for postgraduate study.\u201D There was not one political party represented in this Parliament that went to the people of New Zealand and said: \u201CYou know what? We do not think there should be allowances for postgraduate study. We think that they can fend for themselves.\u201D No party did that, yet this National Government came to this Parliament with the Budget this year and abolished allowances for postgraduate research. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is those researchers who will be the people who will work in Callaghan Innovation, who will be the people who will provide the scientific breakthroughs, and this Government is sending a message to those people: \u201CIf you haven\u2019t got the money in your pocket, if you don\u2019t come from a privileged background, forget it. Go overseas.\u201D Day after day I get letters and emails from people who are doing just that, who are saying they are giving up on New Zealand because there is no support for them to undertake postgraduate research. This kind of activity, Callaghan Innovation\u2019s core business, will happen only if we have got a pipeline of scientists coming through, training in our tertiary institutions, doing their postgraduate study, and then, as my colleague Dr Megan Woods said, undertaking postdoctoral research\u2014except that we have got rid of the support for that as well. This Government has got rid of the support for postgraduate allowances and also for postdoctoral research. It is stifling and it is shutting off the pipeline of people who are needed to contribute to something like Callaghan Innovation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo although on this side of this House we can support this bill because at the highest level the goals are the right ones, there is no point in having a Callaghan Innovation if we do not have the scientists in New Zealand who will work there, if we do not support those scientists right through from school to tertiary level. Again, remember that this is the Government that got rid of science advisers in schools. Not only is it taking away the opportunity at the tertiary level; it is not even investing in science at the secondary level. The Government moans and bemoans the lack of engineers and scientists, but this is about a pipeline all the way from school through to work and there being job opportunities. At the moment what this bill speaks of is one small part of the equation being dealt with, but the rest of it being forgotten about. It is very hard to take seriously this Government\u2019s commitment to research and science if that is all that it manages to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E This is not just an Opposition politician saying this. We have heard in the last few days the deep concern from the scientific community in New Zealand about the kinds of opportunities that this Government is providing them. Here are just some of the words used by some of our senior scientists in the last few days about New Zealand\u2019s research and science system: \u201CIt\u2019s falling to pieces.\u201D, \u201CIt\u2019s an embarrassment.\u201D, \u201CIt\u2019s a lottery.\u201D, and \u201CIt\u2019s in crisis.\u201D These are the words of our scientists, many of whom are giving up on New Zealand. The obvious conclusion is that if those scientists feel that our system is an embarrassment, that it is in crisis, and that it is a lottery, then they will leave New Zealand. We have seen evidence of that right around the country. New Zealand suffers economically and it suffers socially when we lose these scientists. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI love the fact that we can stand in this Parliament and say we are going to do something about innovation in New Zealand and we are going to create a more coordinated approach. But the reality leaves that goal so far behind that it is an embarrassment. Our system is in crisis, and this Government does need to step up to the mark. When Labour was in office, we said that we would do the research and development tax credit because that would keep us competitive\u2014that would keep us competitive with other countries. The National Government comes in and says it does not like that. It comes in with another ad hoc scheme that is clearly failing, if the scientists of New Zealand are to be believed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe need a far more coherent system of funding for science and research in New Zealand. We need to invest in the people who will make New Zealand work. One of Sir Paul Callaghan\u2019s favourite phrases was talking about New Zealand as \u201Ca place where talent wants to live\u201D. He understood that it is the people and it is the talent that will drive New Zealand science. The institutions like Callaghan Innovation will be helpful, but unless as a country we are prepared to invest in the people and the scientists, we simply will not live up to those goals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ELabour is supporting this bill, but we do so knowing that we are a long way away, with this National Government, from having adequate support for science and research in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u00223c1dd49dbe9e4fdb82aba8462cf184d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c1dd49dbe9e4fdb82aba8462cf184d7\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe. I am pleased to take a final call on this bill, this legislation, that we now will refer to as the Callaghan Innovation Bill, of course. The Greens initially supported this legislation under another name for the very simple reason that we did see a need, a value, in establishing some sort of organisation, some entity, that could bridge the gap and that could be a networking organisation, a facilitation organisation, to inform developments both within science research and within the business community. There is a crying need for us to better develop and to turn good ideas, good science, and good technology into saleable ideas\u2014saleable and ideally weightless commodities, or very high value, low volume commodities\u2014that can better serve our economy. Unfortunately, we were obliged to turn our backs on that support. We are now in opposition to this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that in my notes I have one of the words used by the former speaker, our Labour colleague Grant Robertson, and that is \u201Cmuddled\u201D. He added the words \u201Cconfused\u201D and \u201Cad hoc\u201D. Unfortunately, they are fair descriptors of the nature of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe chair of the Education and Science Committee, Nikki Kaye, indicated that the Government\u2019s choice was not to make this legislation prescriptive. That is something of an understatement. This is so permissive that the parameters within it are almost meaningless. There are virtually none. This House today will pass this legislation into law with very little idea of the outcome, of the final structure, of the real functions, and of the powers and limitations of this new entity, and that is a great shame. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe think that, in a sense, it is unfortunate that Sir Paul Callaghan\u2019s name is attached to this entity, because an organisation whose genesis is confused, is muddled, and is ad hoc is unlikely to be the success that that name deserves, I would say. This bill was rushed through, and indeed the process\u2014the very flawed process\u2014is part of the reason that we are opposing this legislation. Not all of it\u2014the key to it is the content, what is contained within it\u2014but the process was inexcusable. Two or 3 days after the bill was introduced, we had the first reading. The report-back date from that first reading was 6 weeks, which was the start of November\u2014the 6th, I think. Less than 4 weeks later we are now seeing the third reading of this bill, and there are still so many unanswered questions, so much we simply do not know, and so much that is left to ministerial discretion that it is a misuse of the power of this Parliament to bring a piece of legislation like this to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E There was not a large number of submissions on this Callaghan Innovation Bill. Those that did come in were remarkably well-informed and coherent, given how little time there was for those people and organisations to prepare their submissions. It is fair to say that most of them were supportive, but it was very, very qualified support. Almost without exception those who were supporting the legislation proposed amendments or highlighted shortcomings, difficulties, or potential problems in the bill, and they were spot on the mark. Very few of those concerns have been met. It is unfortunate that the Government accepted virtually none of the amendments put in the select committee consideration of the bill. The committee itself was able to put in some somewhat better provisions, but overall it is still so permissive and so unconstrained. The Minister will have such extraordinary power to direct the future of the relationship between business and science and the academic community that it is almost doomed to fail in its present form. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EAs I have made the point before, this new entity will almost certainly disrupt and set back some very positive and productive relationships that have already been established. The Economic Development Agencies of New Zealand, the umbrella body for the economic development agencies around the country, put forward a very good submission when it highlighted the danger of the very good work being done by organisations like the Economic Development Agencies of New Zealand and others being likely to be set back because this bill is so poorly thought through and so poorly drafted. Inevitably, almost, this organisation will come in over the top and undo some of the good work that has been done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe Economic Development Agencies of New Zealand pointed out that the economic development agencies are in a unique position to add value, to leverage the money that comes to them through contestable funding, because not only can they apply to it the limited resource that they get but also they can add it to their existing resource. It was a very compelling submission made by the Economic Development Agencies. Unfortunately, it will be deeply disappointed to see that the existing relationships, the organisations, and the work that has been done are nowhere protected within this bill, and, in all likelihood, the good work will be undone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe deal-breaker for the Greens in this bill was the very bland, bald statement in the bill that the Advanced Technology Institute\u2014Callaghan Innovation, as it now is\u2014will administer and allocate funding with absolutely no indication and no information about which funding or on what grounds. We are told that fairness and transparency will prevail. Well, I have to say that one can very transparently starve critical organisations of funding. One can very fairly make decisions, if you use a fairly loose interpretation of that word. It is an appallingly broad, non-specific provision in the bill, and that, critically, was one that was highlighted. The danger of funding being channelled so, so narrowly was highlighted in many of the concerns of the submitters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EDespite being described as a networking agency, and despite the Cabinet papers highlighting the fact that it would be a networking agency, nevertheless Callaghan Innovation is also going to have a considerable research capacity. Initially it will take over Industrial Research Ltd as a subsidiary, and in time Industrial Research Ltd will be disestablished. You get the classic funder/provider dilemma. Callaghan Innovation, as a provider of science and research, will also be making funding provisions, and that is a very, very unsatisfactory outcome for this. The Institution of Professional Engineers New Zealand advocated for this new organisation not to have a research function, saying that it should instead find the existing providers, and facilitate, resource, and support\u2014all of those good things that the language of the bill might allow but almost certainly will not, given the clumsiness of the structuring that has been done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThere is a major concern now for some 360 to 380 staff at Industrial Research Ltd, mostly scientific and technical people, who are in very short supply in this country, and it is a diminishing supply. Those people go into the holiday period looking forward to the new year with considerable trepidation. What is their future? Is it secure? The likelihood is that it is not secure. We are likely to lose more talent, which has been the story of science and research in this country for at least the last decade, or, indeed, the last 15 years or so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E The question of the career path for science was referred to by some of the Labour speakers who have already spoken today. I would suggest the Minister have a good read of last week\u2019s National Business Review, particularly the article from Dr Jacqueline Rowarth, who is currently at Massey. She is a very well-respected scientist with a good track record, particularly in agricultural science. She points to the fact that the Minister of Science and Innovation is talking about supporting more science and more engineering graduates from our universities, but he is rather overlooking the fact that one can fund as many positions as one likes but one must not overlook that potential science and engineering graduates are not going to go into those fields if they cannot see a clear career path. It is muddled decisions like this one about Industrial Research Ltd that will discourage that young talent from going into science as a career. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe know that the Minister has decreed that one of our largest universities shall have x number of entrants going into science and engineering. The rather \u201Cquaint\u201D response from the university, which I absolutely endorse\u2014it is \u201Cquaint\u201D in the Minister\u2019s eyes\u2014is that it has got this belief in something called academic freedom and that the institutions must be allowed to decide how many students they take on and graduate in time. But the key point is that there must be a career path, or our science and technology capacity will erode over time, as, indeed, it has eroded over the last several years, and that is something we need to turn round. This entity could have helped that. Instead, we fear that it will actually have a negative effect on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EFinally, I would say that, having established this entity, this Callaghan Innovation\u2014and I still believe there needs to be another word after that to give it a proper title\u2014and put on it the name of one of our most remarkable scientists and one of our most remarkable science communicators, the responsibility now lies with this Government to make it work. I think that will be a significantly difficult task for it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u002283584d7b57b844a9b290c22952ef6272\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283584d7b57b844a9b290c22952ef6272\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me great pleasure to speak on this Callaghan Innovation Bill and to take a short call. I must admit I was very concerned to hear that dreary dissertation from the Greens. They do seem to oppose anything that will enhance economic growth in this country. Of all things, I would have thought it would be the area of science, development, and innovation and its commercialisation that this country badly needs, particularly in the private sector. That is what this Callaghan Innovation Bill is all about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EJust a few months ago the Government published its Building Innovation report, and it was particularly ambitious. It set out the Government\u2019s determination to shift private investment in research and development from 0.5 to 0.6 percent of GDP, as it is now, to 1 percent within a few years, and to shift the public investment from 0.68 percent, as it is now, to 0.8 percent. This is very important for New Zealand. The National Government, under the very difficult conditions of a world economic recession, has increased our investment in science research and development from $1 billion to $1.25 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EWe heard\u2014again a dismal speech\u2014Grant Robertson of the Labour Party saying how science in New Zealand was falling to bits. Shame on him. We have just had the Prime Minister\u2019s Science Prizes, and we saw the depth and breadth of science and scientists in New Zealand and the tremendous work that they are doing. Yes, of course we would all like more investment in this area, and again I report that in each of those areas of basic science, such as the Marsden Fund, the Health Research Council of New Zealand, and the Performance-based Research Fund, each of these areas has had more investment under National, and there will be more over the next few years. Of course, we would like to expand this when, and if, we possibly can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThe Advanced Technology Institute, now Callaghan Innovation, was a key recommendation of last year\u2019s Powering Innovation report. It points out very much that it will have a wide spectrum of activities. It will help New Zealand\u2019s industries to carry out more research and development and to commercialise them\u2014from food and beverage to agritechnologies, to digital technologies, to health technologies, to therapeutics manufacturing, and to high-value wood products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI want to just point out that the late Sir Paul Callaghan wrote in 2011: \u201CMy view is that to succeed, New Zealand businesses need to be the best in the world at what they do. I do not care what they do, so long as it is legal and not morally objectionable.\u201D We heard Megan Woods, and we heard Grant Robertson and others, talk about this bill being too permissive. The whole point of innovation is that it has to be. In an environment of flexibility and nimbleness, that is what our businesses require. So Callaghan Innovation is all about assisting our businesses to be globally competitive and innovative, so that they will, indeed, be the best in the world. It does, indeed, emphasise collaboration between business, universities, Crown research institutes, and other research institutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003ELastly, I want to once again pay tribute to Sir Paul Callaghan and his family for the amazing spectrum of activities that he has carried out over his many, many years of research, not only in science and not only through being a science communicator\u2014I think we will all remember those wonderful, wonderful interviews with Kim Hill and with many other interviewers from around the world, and his many books, including Wool to Weta\u2014but also his huge generosity to politicians from every side of the House. He came into this building time and time again to give us his message. Indeed, this Callaghan Innovation Bill is all about carrying out his vision for the future of New Zealand in science and innovation and its commercialisation to help economic growth in New Zealand for the benefit of all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u00221627ef5752114e298f4b8d27eeba4a14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221627ef5752114e298f4b8d27eeba4a14\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. I am pleased to rise to speak on the Callaghan Innovation Bill after Dr Paul Hutchison. I think his final comments were very, very interesting. They were around flexibility, innovation, and having an opportunity to have a research and science provider with that flexibility. So on the one hand you could say that the bill is very permissive, or you could say that actually we require environments of trust, with oversight. I would hope that the Government benches, having reached into this area of trust, of experts in their field with oversight, might like to shift that view to education. That would be great\u2014that we actually trusted the experts in our current schools and provided some flexibility and some innovation abilities inside that field. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EBut back to the Callaghan Innovation Bill. I want to reconfirm again that the understanding of the Education and Science Committee was that 80 percent of the role of this institute is relationship building\u2014that is, the networking of business, science, and research institutes to produce commercial outcomes that will lift New Zealand\u2019s exports. One of the intended consequences is that any sort of lift in that performance, in that commercialisation, and in that productivity would lower New Zealand\u2019s unemployment numbers, and I think that is probably what we are all hoping will happen. The manufacturing jobs downstream of a new commercial entity, of a new commercial enterprise that had come out of this networking and this relationship between business and science, would drop New Zealand\u2019s unemployment, as opposed to taxpayers\u2019 money being expended on this research and this commercial development and then another country\u2019s unemployment numbers dropping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E So one of the side effects and one of the flexibilities that we would like to see as a downstream effect of Callaghan Innovation is that when these products are developed, when they are brought to a commercial point, then manufacturing is considered here in New Zealand. The price of the widget, or the manufacturing price of the widget, is not the only consideration, and those select committee members who discussed the difference between \u201Cbenefit\u201D and \u201Cnet benefit\u201D will know what I am talking about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThat leaves 20 percent of the role, as understood by the select committee, that stood around direct investment by Callaghan Innovation into research funding, and that was very, very clear. I was pleased to hear the Minister of Science and Innovation say in the beginning of his speech that Callaghan Innovation would not be a distributor of contestable funds, because it was a concern around them having two hands in the same pot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI guess what it does do, though, is it now opens concerns that the members on the Opposition benches of the select committee attempted to get some security around: the way that the institute would seek funding. It was very clear from the submissions that contestable funding is tight. We did not want to see another player in that field. The intention, at least on the Opposition benches, I believe, was that this 20 percent would be a pool of the institute\u2019s own money with which to invest in research and development with business that is not currently met by any other fund. So I am a little concerned that the Minister now says that it is not going to be distributing contestable funds, because I believe that opens the door to it to now be a competitor for those funds, and that was not what was discussed at the select committee. But, at the end of the day, you have to put this out there with trust but obligations, and trust and oversight, and there will be many of us who will be watching. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWe also had a big conversation around the duplication of research, and I want to also put that on the record. It was made clear to us at select committee that not all duplication is bad, that particularly in research to have the testing or the research done by another organisation completely hands-off and removed from the first one, to verify results or to maximise whatever the outcomes are, is not necessarily a bad thing. But it is going to be one of the things that Callaghan Innovation is going to have to work out over time. Where is that balance between productivity as in duplication of research and then actual, destructive duplication? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThere is still a gap, and I am pleased to see the member Colin King in the House right now, because he very kindly at the Committee stage shouted across the Chamber to me\u2014when I was looking for some assistance about whether this bill might provide assistance to Mahurangi Technical Institute and its eel-breeding programme to take it from 12 days to a commercially viable operation\u2014\u201CPGP\u201D, which is the Primary Growth Programme, I believe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ab0666b58414b36b58823e575e22f7e\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: Partnership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262bd161f494a415797bf6cf50b1077e4\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Partnership\u2014I beg your pardon. It is the Primary Growth Partnership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223561547a269f4eebbd2da29bbc403698\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m here to help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222657b06a7f84e0b8d336aa034f48461\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: And I want to thank him for his assistance. It is very kind of you\u2014thank you very much. So I went away to check on Mr King\u2019s advice, and unfortunately in this instance not only has this research unit applied twice to the partnership fund, but it has applied to every other fund that the Government actually has for this sort of development, the last one directing it back to the Primary Growth Partnership. It was to absolute shock and horror that in question time today the Hon David Carter got up and announced that $43 million of New Zealand taxpayers\u2019 money will be given in research dollars to a company owned by the Japanese\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225326383af2e3414f9a1b5d77fb2563a4\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: Partially owned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227101bb9b058d4e4ab39ff129496514f3\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014owned by the Japanese\u2014and therefore this small, completely New Zealand based, New Zealand - owned New Zealand research institute cannot find $3 million from its own Government. I think that is a shame, Mr King, and any assistance you would like to give me and the people at Mahurangi Technical Institute in Warkworth to bring forward what will be one of the most productive industries for this country, in an export market that everybody in Asia will be very keen to participate in, I welcome, Mr King. My office number is on your dial. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI still want to bring up another point. There is a requirement to reimburse the ratepayers of Auckland. The ratepayers of Auckland\u2014or, more specifically, the ratepayers of the old Manukau City Council\u2014invested into The FoodBowl. The FoodBowl, which is going to be absorbed by this bill, is currently a wholly owned subsidiary of Auckland Tourism, Events and Economic Development and it has on its books $2.5 million over the next 5 years. That is its budgeted amount, obviously. That is from its 2010-11 budget going forward. I would suggest that the Government or the working party setting up the institute needs to go and have a look at the amount of money taken from those ratepayers from the 2010-11 and 2011-12 financial years. I think they need to write a cheque and give it back because this asset is actually an $18.1 million capital asset over there in Manukau City. It was developed by Enterprising Manukau, which was a council-controlled organisation of that local body. Considering the drama that we had last week\u2014and I need to ask Mr Smith, actually. Does Mr Smith think that this is core business?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237540cb2bc4d400f8572b74bde137fc1\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e28869850ff049f39767d6d8a2ccd412\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Smith\u2014I beg your pardon. Everybody wants their title. Does Dr Smith believe that this is core business that the ratepayers of the legacy Manukau City or the ratepayers of Auckland should be investing in? If not, then I expect Dr Smith to go to his caucus and to fight hard to get that money given back to the ratepayers of South Auckland, who, goodness knows, with social deprivation scores of 7 and 8, absolutely could do with some of their ratepayer money back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EHowever, New Zealand First will be supporting this bill. We support it on the basis of trust with oversight, and we will be watching. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9750ce6cfdb479eb82081009f061d09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9750ce6cfdb479eb82081009f061d09\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E It is an urgent need that this bill, the Callaghan Innovation Bill, gets passed and it is a pleasure to be speaking during the third reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EI want to just dwell on two points that have been raised. The first one is around the attitude of the Greens and Labour in their approach to this whole matter. I would like to refer to the Business New Zealand submission. Business New Zealand, for instance, has 14,000 members and 17,000 associates, and its comment in its submission was that \u201CThere is a gap in the market at the applied end of the R \u0026amp; D spectrum which [Callaghan Innovation] is designed to fill ...\u201D. This is something that has been overlooked as the Labour and Green members laboured the point of the submissions that came through from those people who had vested interests. In actual fact, I would like to remind Labour and the Greens that they had 9 years to get some resemblance of order around the Crown research institutes, around science and innovation, and I would just like to have it on record that they failed miserably. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003ECallaghan Innovation will be driven by the market sending signals back to innovators as they seek science solutions. From that point of view we will find that the solving of these situations will be around research and development problems and challenges, and they will create the opportunities. This bill is so very appropriate in doing so. What the Callaghan Innovation Bill is designed to achieve is a robust and successful connection between the market and innovation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EI would have to put it on record also that during the submission stage in the Education and Science Committee one detected a degree of self-interest and patch protection coming across from those people whom we laud as scientists and researchers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EThis bill appropriately puts together the essential framework in which this dynamic organisation, which carries the name of Callaghan Innovation, will drive innovation. It will develop and increase the confidence that we want to see within business to grow the investment, because, really, we need to build a culture inside this country of business confidence, of getting an excellent return from research and development investment. That is why it is not happening, or has not happened. It will be the measure of success of Callaghan Innovation. That will be the bar on which it will be measured.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E Although the Greens and Labour talked about the funder/provider split, let me remind you that under Labour we put together the funding and provision arms of the New Zealand Transport Agency and we did that for a very good reason: so that there were efficiencies. In actual fact, Business New Zealand pointed out: \u201CWe endorse this as a sensible move so that the operational side of [Callaghan Innovation] does not get politicised due to perceived conflicts of interest.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EI support this bill wholeheartedly. It is urgently needed, and it is urgently needed because we want to provide confidence to business to invest in research and development, find innovative solutions, and drive this country\u2019s economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00225e74babcad1e4f3aa995360822ee783d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e74babcad1e4f3aa995360822ee783d\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E We certainly do need confidence, and we certainly are not going to get it from that Government over there. Under this Government\u2014under its watch\u2014we have lost 40,000 jobs in manufacturing. Just this year alone more than 50,000 New Zealanders have left for Australia. That does not exactly fill one with much confidence for the initiatives that the Government is coming up with. It is a disaster. It is a disaster, and the solutions require a hands-on approach that is designed to make some brave decisions\u2014brave decisions about economic development that are about joining up our economic development and having an actual strategy that is actually going to deliver some jobs down the track. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThis bill, the Callaghan Innovation Bill, is a poor effort at doing that. It is more of a wet bus ticket. We, as you know, support this bill with reluctance. We consider it a missed opportunity and half-baked. It is a missed opportunity to truly grow the economy. It is typical of this Government, because it is not interested in meaningful input from industry, it is not interested in a broad economic development vision, and it is not interested in a broad set of policy initiatives that make research, science, and technology more accessible to New Zealand business. Instead, the Callaghan Innovation Bill is a so-called grand scheme that is not worthy of the name. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWe need to create an environment where innovation is interconnected between the education sector at the primary, secondary, and tertiary levels but also with industry, so that we are producing young people with the skills that our industry needs to innovate, and then\u2014then\u2014we also need a robust scientific research community, the science providers, and we need to understand what it takes to commercialise. We need all of those things, and we need them all to be interconnected and not set apart from each other. But, no, instead we have got here a piece of legislation that has not been properly thought out, where the industry has not been properly consulted, where there is not a partnership or a collaborative approach, and where it has been rushed through\u2014rushed through\u2014in a very short space of time, which has not allowed the industry to fully participate or for it to be discussed. Instead, we hear on the other side of the House talk about vested interests. Well, where was the proper discussion in the select committee that truly consulted the breadth of the industry about this bill? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI am pretty disappointed in this bill, especially because it has come out of the Education and Science Committee, which is chaired by Nikki Kaye. For this to be a good piece of legislation it requires an understanding of 21st century learning and innovation, but it clearly does not have that. It is held in suspicion by the stakeholders, and I am sure that my colleagues across this side of the House have talked about that. It needs to have the stakeholders on board to make an innovation economy thrive. Those who did submit had very mixed views and reservations, and I have read some of those submissions. There were many who submitted, and there were many others who could have and should have submitted but were given virtually no time to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIn contrast, I have sat on that same select committee for the last 6 months, with Nikki Kaye chairing, considering another inquiry into 21st century learning and literacy and what is really needed to transform our education system to ensure that our children become the workers of the future\u2014the workers of the future who are equipped for the jobs of the future that we need to transform our economy. That is a good piece of work, but this is not. It is interesting how the dots have not been joined. This is another critical piece of the puzzle to put in place the levers that can help that innovation to occur, but this bill is very unlikely to achieve that, and it is, as I said, an enormous missed opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI just draw everybody\u2019s attention to part of that missed opportunity. In our technology sector, which is still very much emerging and very much an important part of our future economy, we need to have the flexibility to allow the small to medium sized enterprises\u2014not the multinationals, the small to medium sized enterprises\u2014to grow and innovate. The technology sector is our third-largest export earner, behind dairying and tourism. It generates over $7 billion in annual revenue. Technology touches on every other major market segment, and it is our fastest-growing, highest per capita - earning industry for the country. As we all know, on the domestic front it contributes nearly $20 billion to New Zealand\u2019s economy and employs over 40,000 people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIt has been identified under this very Government that innovation is one of its six priority sources of economic development, but in order to make that happen it has got to get serious about the work that is really needed to make science and innovation the heart of our new economy. The submissions on this bill stated that what was needed was closer alignment with the science providers, and that there were potential conflicts of interest with the funder/provider. I note that the member across the House alluded to that, so, clearly, that is a bit of a sensitive issue over there. Overall, it is a disappointment. I would like to quickly touch on how, if a truly collaborative institute was being established to help grow our new manufacturing industry, there would be a much closer synergy with the stated needs of the industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI just want to mention our local information and communications technology industry, which is a pretty important industry. It is a sector that, if it was to grow to the same relative size as Australia\u2019s, would be a $4 billion industry rather than a $3 billion one. The Government, with its $2 billion annual spend in this information and communications technology area, could play a really key role in that industry\u2019s development. Local IT companies are competitive. They are cost competitive. They have got a 25 percent to 35 percent cost advantage over Australian companies and a larger cost advantage compared with Australia, the US, and the UK. I mention this really important industry because that is what we should be thinking about. We should be joining the dots between the industries that we need to be investing in and our primary, secondary, and tertiary education sectors, and what those industries and our tertiary education institutes are telling us. Just think what could be achieved if this Government was to actively listen to its emerging industries\u2014not the multinationals but the Kiwi companies\u2014and to what the Kiwi companies are saying to us. They are the ones that we so desperately need to foster and develop so that our kids have got jobs, and so that our kids not only will have the jobs of the future but will actually stay in New Zealand and not be part of the 50,000 people who have left New Zealand this year to go to Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI want to end on a broken promise, which is just one of the many broken promises that we have seen under this Government and that this Government has become known for. It is a research-funding broken promise. The promise was to use a third of the savings from the discontinued research and development tax credit to directly fund research\u2014$315 million over 3 years. The result has been $100 million over 4 years. This was largely from underspent funding from the previous year and reversing other commitments. Of the total new science funding spent in 2009-10 on science, $44 million was unspent funding from the year before. In this bill this Government is trying to make a big deal of all the new funding, but the reality is that although $166 million has been committed to develop this institute, most of it came from existing funding savings. It is a missed opportunity. It is not part of a joined-up strategy. It is another example of how New Zealanders have been let down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc51b5cea1154304bd73cfa6a6f41deb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc51b5cea1154304bd73cfa6a6f41deb\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I want to step away from this conspiracy-driven, Chicken Little approach from the Opposition today and I want to particularly add voice to what is actually a very successful research industry in New Zealand, realising that the research that Kiwis do already is exactly what this institute is wanting to work with. I mentioned in one of the earlier speeches around this bill, the Callaghan Innovation Bill, that the institute works as a conduit, and that is why the bill has speedily gone through\u2014the concepts are relatively easy to grasp\u2014and why the fundamentals are still going to be worked out by the board. It is fairly appropriate and normal in a situation like this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EOnce again I just want to draw attention to the great research that is being done by Kiwis. I had the great pleasure of joining a friend of mine at the Prime Minister\u2019s Science Prizes, where he was awarded the Prime Minister\u2019s MacDiarmid Emerging Scientist Prize\u2014Dr James Russell. Amazing stuff he does in statistics, ecology, and genetics. Other friends of mine are doing their postdoctoral research here in New Zealand, be it in engineering, electrical engineering, genetics, physiology, or ophthalmology; these are just people whom I know\u2014through Auckland University, in particular\u2014who are doing amazing research already. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThis is not an environment where everything is falling to pieces. These are Kiwis with great brains, great minds, who have taken the opportunity to study. They do not all stand there expecting the Government to hand out at every time they complain, but they are people who also want to stay in this country, support this country, and take that innovation into a commercial sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe context of this bill is positivity. This country has great researchers, it has great minds, it has great Kiwis, and they are the Kiwis who want to stay here\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0aa852312fd4115a6f88d2fba7f2a69\u0022\u003ETracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Good eels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9ee5346495d453cae627e57e6ad4e4d\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and who want, Tracey Martin, to make the widgets, to use your quote. They want to stay here and they want this institute. It is a great concept. It is a conduit from research into business. Let us pass this bill and get on with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00225bbaf738ddea48a39e349f849f3f54f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225bbaf738ddea48a39e349f849f3f54f3\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Five minutes\u2014Sue Moroney.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u002202d2259898de4848a9881cc1a2c8698c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202d2259898de4848a9881cc1a2c8698c\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is, indeed, a pleasure to rise and speak to\u2014well, since I spoke to it last, it has changed its name. It is the Callaghan Innovation Bill. I do just want to point out, though, before I speak on the detail of the bill, that I think that last speech from a Government MP said it all, which is really that this bill is so devoid of vision and so devoid of something that is desperately needed by this country that all the last member, Simon O\u2019Connor, could do was rehearse, in fact, what is already happening in this country. It is already happening. All he could do in his speech was rehearse research that has already been undertaken. So I have to ask that member what he thinks this bill actually lends the situation to improve it, unless that Government so lacks ambition for this country that it thinks that everything that is going on now is just fine and dandy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, certainly within the Labour camp, we do not want to see the continuation of a flat-lining economy that is being led by that Government. We think that we actually need to boost the economy. The Prime Minister once said he was going to supercharge the economy. That is what he once said\u2014he was going to supercharge it. I am sorry, Labour is supporting this bill, but this by no stretch of the imagination supercharges the economy in the way that the Prime Minister once used to say he wanted to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EBut then the Prime Minister once used to say, and once used to promise, a brighter future for this country. I notice that he has stopped using that particular phrase, and so he should. He promised the brighter future not in just the most recent election but also in the one before that again; 5 years later the New Zealand public now sees that the brighter future was something of a sham because they did not expect that it meant selling the State assets down the tubes, they did not expect that it meant increasing class sizes, and they did not expect that it meant cutting funding for early childhood education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI do want to talk about Sir Paul Callaghan because he was a remarkable New Zealander. I think it is actually a little bit of a shame that something this lightweight has been used in his name, because what I knew of Sir Paul Callaghan was that he was a man who was well thought through in his thinking. When he talked on an issue and saw what a future really should look like for New Zealand, he took a comprehensive approach to it, not a piecemeal approach to it, like this bill does. It really just tries to make a symbolic attempt at making it look like the Government is doing something serious to improve science and innovation in this country, when, in fact, all it is actually doing is establishing a new statutory Crown entity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EIn supporting this bill, I guess Labour asks whether it will do any harm. The answer is that it probably will not do any harm, but will it do any good? Well, we do not believe that it will do much good in terms of the serious issues that confront this country at the moment. I come from a really important part of our country when it comes to science and innovation: the Waikato. In the mighty Waikato we are really proud of the science capacity and the research capacity that we have, particularly with regards to the production of food, because we do actually consider ourselves to be the food bowl of New Zealand, and we have the smarts to go with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EWhen Labour was in Government there was a proposal that was being worked on going by the name of the smart food network, which actually would have joined up a whole series of innovations across the country. It was not a new Crown entity without scientists even being involved in it, which is what this bill proposes, but it was actually an on-the-ground innovation that would have worked directly with small companies to join together so that they could have the capacity to actually test out their ideas, their new innovations, in a manufacturing sense. This bill appears to me to be an afterthought of a different attempt at doing exactly that, but that attempt was stopped\u2014stopped in its tracks\u2014by this current Government. That was an approach that I think would have made a much quicker and more comprehensive difference to the innovation and research going on in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI am standing to support this bill. I think it is woefully inadequate, and it is not the path to the brighter future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022 data-id=\u00225263a43c0ea2457ea07b7bd2137c4e2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225263a43c0ea2457ea07b7bd2137c4e2a\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Callaghan Innovation Bill. The model in this bill probably could be mostly right. It would be right if it was purely the facilitator that the bill spoke of initially\u2014a connector of both business and people who cannot find the people they feel they need to solve some solutions\u2014but the bill as it stands does not necessarily stop there. It goes on to a little bit of an unknown, nebulous area that we are yet to find out about, as the institute unfolds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003ESome of the wrongs are that, effectively, the Minister can interfere. For one, the Minister could push genetic engineering through in there. He could say: \u201CHey, we want our friends there to get some real help.\u201D, and push that way. The institute could do other things that suit its business agenda that are not actually in the public interest using Government funding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EWe look at the Crown research institutes and sometimes we wonder whether they are quite as functional as we might like, but actually they are OK except in how they are funded. How they are funded is a problem, and currently the structure for funding them is a little bit of a one-size-fits-all structure. Callaghan Innovation could be a good structure, as needed, because it requires other institutes to contribute, and there is room for that sometimes, but that is actually already happening with Crown research institutes, too. However, it needs independence, and the independence is clearly not there in this structure. It would need certainty for scientists\u2014certainty of jobs, certainty of resources\u2014and there is no real succession in there except that it may be the conduit for emptying out from the public sector scientists into the commercial world. The governance model needs some different strength. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003ECrown research institute funding, on the other hand, if it was far more independent, where they would have 51 percent of the control over how things work for them, would be a much better area. It would be a much better outcome. We actually need science here that is pure science, not just being obsessed with meeting some immediate commercial reality. There will be commercial benefits, but not if it is just force-fed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThe old Industrial Research Ltd did seem to have a record of poor management at times, but what Industrial Research Ltd has done over recent years has been outstanding. I note the National Business Review, reporting on Shaun Coffey\u2019s resigning from Industrial Research Ltd, pointed out that this new institute will be a major challenge. We do not need it to be a major challenge; we need it to be an effective and certain structure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EI note that Professor Jeff Tallon, a physicist of superconductivity research, has pointed out that industrial research will disappear into the institute\u2019s maw. He had a concern about that. He also pointed out that Sir Paul Callaghan would have been shocked by his name being put to this structure, and would not have put his name to any institution that has lost its focus on science and research. There is an unknown future. What we do know is that this is a privatisation of public science, including feeding committed pure scientists into the commercial maw. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EFunding starvation\u2014this will be a funder, as well. It will go to the companies, because this is what was put at the select committee. Scientists would be seconded from the science institutions and put into companies to do the bidding of the institute. The Institute of Professional Engineers New Zealand suggested that those researchers should ideally not be coming back, and that the institute will receive replacements. So the Green Party will not be supporting this. We think there are too many flaws. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u002237cd819009374d50a1f2ae5f55acb755\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237cd819009374d50a1f2ae5f55acb755\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E What a pleasure it is to stand and take a short call on this, the Callaghan Innovation Bill. What a remarkable piece of legislation by a Government that is committed to growth, to industry, to innovation, to science, and to creating high-paying jobs for honest, hard-working Kiwis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EIt has been interesting to listen to the members of the Opposition flailing around, trying hard to find reasons not to support this very good idea. I am very pleased that Labour Party members actually do support it, although you would not feel that or understand that, given the calibre and quality of their speeches. The Green Party, of course, is against science and innovation, and it just does not want a part of it at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EBut $166 million is going into Callaghan Innovation because we as a National Government understand that collaboration, growth, and science are an important mix in combination, and together, given the right incubator, the right opportunity, they can come together to create high-paying jobs and high-value manufacturing opportunities, such as exist in my electorate at organisations like Triodent. There are people in my electorate, like Basil Morrison, for instance, who understand the connection and the mix that it is important to have in science and innovation, and that high-value job creation is the key to success for our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EJobs depend on businesses being competitive\u2014businesses that sell something, that make something, that have services, and that have innovation as their very fundamental core. Those businesses need to be unique, they need to be producing quality services and products, and they need to be fairly priced and able to compete internationally in the global market place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThis is a proud and historic day for this Parliament as we pass this legislation, because in years to come this bill will see the foundation stone of a great new innovative collaboration in our country. I commend this bill to the House with great vigour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227335f0873f2143e5a5e1f0fbac25b37d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Callaghan Innovation Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 105\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 15\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 14; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225de87f76da094c9f92a5e7fe10ea09f7\u0022\u003EFamily Court Proceedings Reform Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002207c7b17f468445ca837824e5ec7d3c80\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u002226b003f7f33a4ed1be3005b46a717f3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226b003f7f33a4ed1be3005b46a717f3a\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS (Acting Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Family Court Proceedings Reform Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be considered by the Justice and Electoral Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe Family Court Proceedings Reform Bill will create a modern, accessible family justice system that is more focused on the needs of children and vulnerable people. It is an omnibus bill that amends nine family law Acts. The reforms the bill implements are the most significant changes to the Family Court since it was established in 1981. The bill implements the Government\u2019s decisions resulting from a review of the Family Court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe changes in the bill respond to widespread concerns that the court is not able to focus enough on the most serious cases, has processes that are difficult to understand, and has seen its costs greatly increase in recent years. The cost of running the Family Court grew 70 percent, from $84 million in 2004-5 to $142 million in 2010-11. This increase in cost is despite application numbers remaining comparatively stable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe Government recognises that the Family Court forms one component of a wider family justice system that needs to support families to resolve disagreements. Through these reforms, the Government will provide more support for people to resolve their disputes out of court. We are also changing the role of the court to ensure it is focused on the most vulnerable people and on the most serious matters requiring judicial decisions. The bill will shift the focus of the family justice system towards supporting people to resolve their disputes about their children out of court, where appropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe bill renames the Family Courts Act. It will become the Family Disputes (Resolution Methods) Act 1980 to signal a shift away from the court being the main way family disputes are resolved. Resources are being developed to help people reach agreements and settle disputes without going to court, as a vast majority of families do already. For example, the successful Parenting through Separation course will be mandatory before applying to court for a parenting order. These free programmes teach parents to understand and focus on the needs of their children when they separate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe most significant reform in the bill is the new family dispute resolution service. Parents who are not able to agree on arrangements for their children will need to attend family dispute resolution before applying to court, unless an exemption applies. A person may also decide to attempt family dispute resolution for other family disputes, such as disputes about relationship property. Out-of-court dispute resolution will give people the opportunity to resolve disputes more quickly and with less conflict. Research shows that prolonged exposure to frequent and intense parental conflict is associated with a range of psychological risks for children. Family dispute resolution will encourage people to focus on the needs of their children and take ownership of the agreement reached. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EFamily dispute resolution will be free for those who meet the legal aid eligibility threshold. It will replace most Family Court counselling and mediation services. It is estimated that family dispute resolution will help resolve about 1,200 cases that would otherwise end up in court and will keep 2,000 children from being exposed to the court processes. Of course, access to the court is still available if family dispute resolution does not resolve all the issues. Also, people will still have direct access to the court for cases that are not appropriate for out-of-court dispute resolution. For example, applicants who need the court\u2019s assistance urgently or who have suffered domestic violence will continue to have immediate access to the court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EA targeted form of publicly funded counselling will be retained for in-court proceedings about the care of children. A judge will be able to refer people for counselling if the judge considers it is the best way to improve the parenting relationship and make the outcome more durable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe bill will improve the Family Court\u2019s response to domestic violence through three key changes. First, the bill expands the definition of \u201Cdomestic violence\u201D in the Domestic Violence Act to include financial and economic abuse as an example of psychological abuse. Second, it increases the sentence for breaching a protection order, from 2 years\u2019 imprisonment to 3 years\u2019 imprisonment. Third, the bill will provide for greater flexibility in the development and delivery of stopping violence programmes. Currently, domestic violence programmes are largely one size fits all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe bill will focus the Family Court on resolving disputes that need a judicial decision. It encourages faster, less adversarial resolution of family disputes and empowers judges to focus on the most serious cases. The bill targets the court\u2019s resources towards those children and vulnerable people who most need its protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003ELawyers for parties will attend care of children proceedings in which they are needed. Lawyers do not need to be involved in the initial stages, except for urgent cases. This reform is designed to give family members the opportunity to resolve their disputes themselves, with the assistance of the judge. But if a case proceeds to a defended hearing, parties may choose to have a lawyer. This is a big change and I expect it will attract a number of submissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThere are two areas to which I would like the Justice and Electoral Committee to pay particular attention, following feedback from Family Court stakeholders. The first is the appointment of a lawyer for a child in care of children cases. Under the bill a lawyer for a child will be appointed where a judge has concerns for the safety or well-being of the child and considers an appointment necessary. I expect that a lawyer for a child will still be appointed in the majority of cases, but it is important to get this test right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe second area is how allegations of violence are dealt with in care of children cases. The bill replaces the current process with a more flexible and proportionate response. Allegations of violence are to be dealt with in accordance with the welfare and best interests of the child. The first principle that a person must consider is that the child\u2019s safety must be protected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EOther changes in the bill will make the court more efficient and effective. For example, if a person received a judgment less than 2 years ago, they will require the court\u2019s leave to commence similar proceedings about the care of children. Transferring relationship property cases from the Family Court to the High Court will also be eased. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe changes in this bill are only one aspect of the Family Court reforms. The changes will be supported by a comprehensive information strategy to help parties resolve their disputes themselves, or, if that is not possible, to help them navigate the court system. There will be amendments to the Family Court\u2019s rules to simplify court processes and to make forms easier to use. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThis Government is committed to improving outcomes for children. It is best for children if their parents are able to resolve disputes about their care without going to court. The Family Court should be there for those cases that need its assistance and it should be able to resolve disputes in a timely and proportionate way. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022441fde1e249e4f739225eedde102ba17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022441fde1e249e4f739225eedde102ba17\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E There are some real problems with this legislation, the Family Court Proceedings Reform Bill. They have been set out, I think, very ably by a number of groups that have great experience with dealing with the Family Court, most notably the existing body of Family Court counsellors and also the family law section of the New Zealand Law Society. What I want to do is just put on record some of the concerns that I have heard from those quarters and from lawyers up and down the country with whom I have met who have real concerns about the way in which the reductions to entitlements, which this bill represents, to use the Family Court will affect the lives of ordinary New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EWe have heard the Acting Minister of Justice talk about the proposed Family Disputes Resolution service. There are many things that commend themselves around that service, but one of the problems with it is the cost of accessing it. There is to be a fee of $897 plus GST in order to get through the door. I know that we will hear from Government speakers that there will be waivers available for those who experience financial hardship and who cannot afford to spend the $1,000 that it will cost to actually get through the door of the first basic step for the Family Disputes Resolution service. Let us just reflect on that for a moment. The fee is the fee. In order to get around it, it will be necessary to apply for a waiver, to go to the registrar of the court and to ask, essentially, for the charity of the State to be exercised in favour of a particular family or family member in trouble. Who knows how many people will have the capacity or the wherewithal to ask for that indulgence? Then, when they do, what guarantees exist, because the statute itself is pretty scant on this, as to how the discretion will fall to be exercised? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EWhen a single person on a benefit with one child earning, at the moment, $170.80 per week is faced with the need to avail themselves of the Family Court\u2014the court that this Parliament set up in 1981 to be free to access, irrespective of imbalances of power in the family relationship, irrespective of whether or not children were at risk and needed the protection of the court, irrespective of the income levels of their parents\u2014how will vulnerable people be able to still feel that they can access this court with any degree of comfort? That is the fundamental issue that has to be raised right up front. Making access to the Family Court contingent on the party\u2019s ability to pay a fee of over $1,000 to get through the door in order to access the initial Family Dispute Resolution service, as has been agreed will be the initial step, is the first major problem that is going to be faced by people trying to use what has hitherto been a court that has been free to access, and, not only that, has provided six free counselling sessions to people who need to use the services of the court. So if people have relationship difficulties, particularly those involving children\u2014and we all know how heart wrenching and how awful those situations can be\u2014at the moment they can go along to the court, they will be referred to counselling, and they will be able to get up to six sessions without having to pay a charge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI want the House to reflect on what a drastic change is being made by this bill. Instead of that system being available, which actually deals with so many cases before they even have to go to judicial determination, we are now saying, no, it is going to cost over $1,000 to access the Family Disputes Resolution system. It is not going to be free of charge, and the reality is that that will simply be a major deterrent for many, many people who otherwise would be able to use those excellent existing services. How many children will suffer as a result of being locked out of the system is the question that the House needs to be asking today. How many couples will remain in a miserable relationship situation, or simply allow their affairs to lack any legal resolution and simply live in a situation that has no legal sanction to it, because they have not been able to afford to go to the court or to formal dispute resolution services and have their problems resolved? That is the tragedy of this legislation. It is mean-spirited and it is unnecessary in terms of where this court needs to go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EEarly on in this process, the Minister\u2019s predecessor, Simon Power, referred the issue of the way in which the Family Court could be improved to the practitioners and stakeholders who had worked in the court for many years. They produced an excellent report. It was presented at a symposium held in the Legislative Council Chamber next door. The Minister at the time, Simon Power, said \u201CLook, this is a really good example of how we can get answers on a consultative basis from people who know the issues, know what things are like on the ground in the Family Court, and these are reforms that will save money, and that we will look to implement.\u201D Well, that approach under this Minister has gone out the door. We have this position where the ministry and the Minister will dictate responses, and what they say will go. I say that what we are going to see in response to this legislation, in the event that it passes in its current form, are two things: a go-slow by practitioners, who are essential in terms of their cooperation to making the system work, and, worse, a go-slow by the Family Court judges, because they are simply not going to be able to cope with the pressures that are going to be put on them by this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThat brings me to the second major objection that must be taken to this legislation, and that is the restriction on representation that this bill will bring about. Basically, in respect of a large number of proceedings that will come before the court, lawyers are going to be excluded. Everybody likes the idea of excluding lawyers on the face of it. The stereotype is that they just add cost to the system, they are going to add complexity, and they are going to add difficulty. The reality is that people who are represented in proceedings generally have a better idea of their rights and obligations. They present better documents to the court and they know the sorts of things that have to be said to the judge, and the judge is going to have to spend less time disposing of the matter if the parties are represented. The reality is that even if the Minister\u2019s attempts to do away with representation in many cases in the court succeed, parties with resources will be able to get good legal advice before they go to the court. They will be able to apprise themselves of their rights and obligations. They will be able to get good documents drawn up\u2014good affidavits\u2014and they will go to the court with a very, very good idea of what the process is about. Those who do not have those resources will not be in that position. The reality is that that imbalance of power that we were so careful to keep out of the Family Court will be a reality of the system again. The only way that that will be able to be dealt with in practice is by the judges themselves taking time in each proceeding to make sure that they try to redress that imbalance of power. That is going to mean longer proceedings, more delay, and more cost. It is not going to save money, and this House should not kid itself that it will do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe other major problem with the legislation that needs to be highlighted is the changes that will restrict the ability of the court to appoint lawyers for the child. That is an essential part of the system at the moment. Children do get buffeted by these proceedings. It is essential that they have their own advocate who can speak to their interests, rather than the interests of the warring parents. To do away with or to restrict the ability of that appointment will cause major hardship to vulnerable children, and it is something that we should be very, very concerned about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIn the context of other cuts to legal aid, and in the context of court delays in the system, which are now becoming chronic, this legislation must be rethought. It is bad legislation, for the reasons I have outlined. That does not mean that there are not good features in it\u2014there are one or two that should be persevered with\u2014but the three that I have outlined are major problems. What I want to say is that if the Acting Minister of Justice gets to his feet later and moves a referral motion that means that submissions to the Justice and Electoral Committee will be cut off in February or late January, that will make a mockery of the process. We do need to make sure that submitters have proper time\u2014not just the January period, when their offices are closed\u2014to make submissions on this incredibly significant and far-reaching bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u002222e33000b26e41e681362a77596f6a69\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222e33000b26e41e681362a77596f6a69\u0022\u003EMARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call on this, the Family Court Proceedings Reform Bill. I was a bit disturbed to hear that just about the whole of Mr Chauvel\u2019s speech was in relation to lawyers, and I think that a great thing about this bill is that it is actually trying to wrap more protection and more rights around children. I think in this country there has to be a strong focus on children and children\u2019s rights, because there are some social issues that we are facing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe bill does aim \u201Cto ensure a modern, accessible family justice system that is responsive to children and vulnerable people, and is efficient and effective.\u201D In response to serious concerns that were raised by court users, including the public, judges, lawyers, and counsellors, Cabinet directed the Ministry of Justice to undertake a review of the Family Court in April 2011. The review found that \u201CIn addition to concerns about rapidly rising costs, the Court lacks sufficient focus on meeting the needs of children and on achieving sustainable, durable outcomes for families. The review also found complicated court processes caused lengthy delays.\u201D It found that the Family Court is \u201Cnegative for children and is not focussed enough on their needs\u201D. It is \u201Cnot focussed enough on the most serious cases\u201D\u2014the most serious cases normally being cases that involve family violence or domestic violence. So the bill is all about improving the court\u2019s response to domestic violence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe bill better supports vulnerable people, including through improving responsiveness to domestic violence, and I think this is a very important part of the bill. It is expanding the definition of psychological abuse in the Domestic Violence Act 1995 to include financial and economic abuse. I think something that goes on a fair bit within domestic and family violence is people, partners, or parents actually using what should be financial support as a tool to try to manipulate and create even more stress within the family unit. I think this is actually something that has been overlooked in the past, so I am very pleased to see that it is being addressed in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThis legislation responds to concerns raised by the public, judges, lawyers, and counsellors during a very comprehensive review of the Family Court. I commend Minister Borrows for bringing this bill to the House. I am sure that my colleague Tim Macindoe, the chair of Justice and Electoral Committee, is looking forward to receiving this. I must say, it would have been nice to have got it on the Law and Order Committee. I look forward to it coming back to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u002244d1020e41b743c8a272f91d97b64803\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244d1020e41b743c8a272f91d97b64803\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E In the Minister of Justice\u2019s Cabinet paper taking this proposed piece of legislation for approval through the Cabinet process, she described the Family Court Proceedings Reform Bill as making the biggest changes to the family justice system since the Family Court was established in 1981. So we are talking about a huge change, and because of the scale of the change, the Opposition would want some assurance that this was a well-thought-out piece of legislation, that it was properly researched, that it was based on adequate data, that it had been the result of full consultation and, hopefully, some consensus, and that the process had been trialled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EOn each one of those counts, from what I have read about this bill, the National Government has once again fallen down on a piece of legislation that it has brought before the House. I base that not as a party political statement but simply on reading the regulatory impact statement and what it says about the background to this bill, why we have got it, and the processes that it went through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI base it on recent past experience. The Associate Minister of Justice, who introduced this bill, also introduced a new system for cases through the Family Court in Auckland, and it has been an absolute shambles because the Government did not get it right. Even the Minister has admitted that it is a shambles. The Minister, the Principal Family Court Judge, the lawyers involved in it\u2014everybody. I will come back to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThirdly, it is based on the fact that the Government set up an expert reference group on Family Court reform. Think about those words: \u201Cexpert reference group on Family Court reform\u201D. You would think that that group would have been at the heart of this reform, but what do we find out? We find out that that group was not consulted on the key proposals in this legislation, Minister. The group was not consulted despite the wrongful claims of the Ministry of Justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EOn all of those grounds there are real causes for concern that the Government, once again, has got it wrong in a piece of legislation it has brought before the House. Look, if you took it simply on what the objectives were of this bill, you would say there are some merits to it, as long as the mechanism for delivering it was well-thought-out and equitable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E \u201CThe purpose \u2026 is to ensure a modern, accessible family justice system that is responsive to children and vulnerable people, and is efficient and effective.\u201D Who could be against that? Nobody could be against that, except that it is wrong. It does not make it more accessible to the vulnerable; it makes it less accessible. How can you make something more accessible to the vulnerable when you first of all put a charge of $1,000 on going there when it used to be free, and how can you make it more accessible and more understandable when you deny people who have trouble understanding the process access to their legal advisers? It falls down on all of those grounds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ELet us look at what the regulatory impact statement says. Well, in its opening paragraph it lets the cat out of the bag. This is not about reform of the justice system. It starts off by saying: \u201CGiven the overall fiscal situation, urgent steps must be taken to lower the cost of the current justice system \u2026\u201D. That is what it is about. It is about cost-cutting. At least the regulatory impact statement is honest about it, even if the Minister of Justice and the speakers on the National Party side have not been. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThen, what is the next paragraph headed? This is astounding. It is headed \u201CGaps and/or uncertainties in policy analysis\u201D. The Government\u2019s own regulatory impact statement talks about the serious gaps and the lack of policy analysis behind this bill, which the Minister says is the biggest thing in 30 years. It says there has been limited research on New Zealand families and their involvement in the family justice system. That is not my accusation; that is the Government\u2019s own admission. It says: \u201CThere is insufficient historical fiscal and statistical data to accurately predict the average costs of performing some tasks associated with Family Court processes.\u201D Then it goes on: \u201CThere was insufficient time for piloting proposed processes or for undertaking\u201D a proper look at court documents to form the databases for a new system. Here is the Government admitting that the biggest change in 30 years has not been subject to adequate research, has not got adequate data, and has not been piloted. What has this Government learnt from its botch-up in reorganising the court system in Auckland? It has learnt absolutely nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EFinally, from the regulatory impact statement, have a look at this statement: \u201C\u2026 because of the timeframe, there has been limited opportunity to discuss the final proposals with stakeholders.\u201D It has not done the research, it has not got the data, it has not piloted it, and it has not talked about it to stakeholders. This Government is an incompetent Government that is rushing in legislation that on its admission is ill-prepared and will not do the job that it is designed to do, other than one factor, and that is to cut costs. First and foremost, and last, this is about cost-cutting. It is not going to deliver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ELet me come back to the Government\u2019s advisory group, the expert reference group on the Family Court\u2014top judges, top Family Court lawyers. The Ministry of Justice claimed that this group approved of the proposals that the National Government has brought in. The chair of that committee said that that is wrong, that is not true, that is inaccurate. Actually, he could have said that was a lie. He said: \u201CWe were not consulted on four key proposals in our discussions with the Ministry which if implemented will potentially place adults and children at risk.\u201D This is from the expert reference group on the Family Court, established by the Government itself, saying not only that it was not consulted but that this puts vulnerable people at risk. What is it about that that the National Party members speaking on this bill do not understand? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EIt goes on to talk about the parties having a user-pays system and says that they are going to have to fully fund this\u2014$1,000. What does that do to access to justice? Maybe they will help a few people right at the bottom, but the people who are lower-middle income, who are really struggling and are finding difficulties\u2014all the things associated with a family breakdown\u2014how are they going to afford the $1,000, and why is it that we put a cost on access to justice when access to justice should be guaranteed as a birthright to New Zealanders? It is wrong in principle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe expert reference group goes on to say that parties and children will not have the automatic right of access to a lawyer. What does this mean? Mr Mahon said this means that \u201Cparents are intimidated into agreeing to settlements which disadvantage them or their children\u201D\u2014which disadvantage them or their children. What is it about that that the National Party does not understand? And is this going to save money? No, Mr Mahon says. This is going to cost money, because there will inevitably be delays in the court process because the court will not have the information it needs to go on to make a properly informed decision. That will result in prolonged cases and greater conflicts between the parties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI want to come to my last point, and that is, if you do not believe all of the things that the experts have been saying about this as to why it will not work, let us look at the Government\u2019s most recent experiment with the Family Court. It was in Auckland and it was a new system for processing Family Court cases. Well, what did Patrick Kennelly say about this? He is one of the most experienced family lawyers in Auckland. He says that \u201Cthe wheels have fallen off the Family Court since the new system was introduced in February as part of widespread changes aimed at making the district courts more efficient and more cost effective.\u201D Does that sound familiar? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe claim the Government is making for this legislation is the same claim it made for the last system change it tried to introduce just this year. The lawyers have said the new system is an absolute shambles. Affidavits have gone missing, judges are not being given complete files, there are delays of up to several months for hearing dates, sealed orders are not being sent, and emails and voice messages are going unanswered. Like other areas of Government reorganisation, this has been a total shambles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EPeter Boshier has said that something that used to take 14 days\u2014a serious custody case involving family violence\u2014is now taking 2 months. Is that the Government\u2019s reform? It used to take 2 weeks; now it is taking 2 months. It is a serious custody dispute involving family violence. Did it save money? No. The cost blowout has been $1 million\u2014far more than the savings the system was supposed to deliver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EAll of the evidence here is that this is a half-baked idea with half-baked plans to implement it. It will not succeed. The Government should go back to the drawing board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u002254674a8f51e246889da0805516d2badb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254674a8f51e246889da0805516d2badb\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Although it is good to see that the Government has made some changes to this legislation, the Family Court Proceedings Reform Bill, from its original review and proposal, we are none the less opposing this bill because we think it is going to cause significant harm to families and to children, and particularly to vulnerable women who are in situations of family violence. We are looking forward to seeing what changes might be made at the select committee and in the Committee stage of this bill, and we certainly make no commitment beyond the first reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThis legislation is going to harm our people, not help, and this is because the safety of women and children is being placed at even further risk. The reforms, as has been set out so well by the Hon Phil Goff, show that they are strongly focused on saving money and much less focused on saving women and children from the risk of violence. There is an obsessive user-pays ideology that pervades these reforms, and, of course, that is what will hurt these families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003ENot a single thing that the National Party has said about this bill justifies the extreme increase in costs\u2014not a single thing about children, about families, or about simplified processes. None of that justifies the extreme cost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EOne thing that we agree with in this bill is the decision to make economic abuse part of the definition of domestic abuse. We agree with that change; it should be part of it. Economic abuse, economic control, by one partner over another does cause serious harm, particularly to a protective parent in a family environment and to any children in that relationship. A person who is without financial resources is highly vulnerable, is trapped in a dangerous relationship, and is locked out from the support services they may need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIt is, therefore, quite ironic to see that that same level of economic abuse against vulnerable women and children is now being played out by the National Government through this legislation. The new cost structure imposed by this bill is a form of economic abuse, in my view, against those people who need this system the most. You place a barrier of $1,000 as an entry barrier to accessing support and dispute resolution for vulnerable families. That is a form of economic abuse against those most vulnerable people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThis bill could have been much better. It could have been much more responsive to the needs of families and children. It could have met the principles that the National Government says it wanted to set out, but, instead, it is imposing massive new costs and will lock people out from justice. As has been said, the new compulsory Family Disputes Resolution process will cost around $1,000. There is a $220 filing fee, and there are also additional costs to a family\u2014to parents\u2014as they go through the process. For example, the payment for psychological reports or for specialist report writers will be imposed on the families going through this process. The court will also decide whether to charge the parents for the cost of a lawyer for the child. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThese last two costs around report writers and costs for the child could be charged under the existing system, but they seldom were, because the inference was that these were services that should be supplied to families and to children where they are needed. Now they will be imposed unless the family can make a case for serious hardship, and there is no real evidence as to what criteria might be applied and how that process might work. All of that is being dealt with elsewhere, not necessarily through this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIf you add up all of the expected costs that will now be imposed on families and children, during a very stressful and difficult time in their lives, we are talking somewhere around $5,000 for a family to go through the compulsory Family Disputes Resolution process\u2014$5,000. Families simply cannot afford that. I understand from what the Minister has said previously that legal aid will be available, in some cases, to those on very low incomes, but, as the Hon Phil Goff said, those on low and medium incomes simply will not be able to afford it. They will not be eligible for legal aid, and they will not be able to afford something between $1,000 and $5,000 just for those initial costs of going through the compulsory process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EI guess it is just that maybe people in the National Party just do not understand what it is like for an ordinary family to live an ordinary life. Maybe they do not understand how much $1,000 is to a family who is on the minimum wage, or to a family who is on the median income. When a family breaks up and one of the partners has to go and set up a new household, and make sure that they have got a big enough household so that their kids can come and sleep there on the weekends, and when they want to set up a decent family home\u2014so that in that family you now have to have two good quality, decent family homes to take care of your kids in the way that you want to\u2014the costs of that process alone can be extraordinary. But then these additional costs are imposed by the Government for no reason, and for no justification. It does not help the children to charge a family $1,000. It does not help the vulnerable mother to charge her $1,000 for this process. It is simply a cost recovery process by this Government\u2014by people who do not understand what it is like to live an ordinary life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EBut, of course, cost is just one of the major concerns that we have about this bill. The new Family Disputes Resolution process could be a good thing for some families, but certainly not for all. It will be compulsory for most families, unless there is some reason why you can get an exemption. Making people go through a process that could be painful and making it difficult for them to access justice is just wrong. It is just wrong. Having a compulsory Family Disputes Resolution process relies on women having the support that they need to speak up about domestic abuse in their relationships. Those women would be able to get an exemption and move straight through the court. But there are hundreds, if not thousands, of examples of women who are living in situations of serious family violence who, because of that family violence, are too frightened to speak out when it comes to the court process. They will not reveal that violence to the registrar, because of fears of what might happen afterwards. So those people will not get an exemption from the $1,000 charge or get an exemption from the dispute resolution process. That means that those women\u2014and it is women, in the main\u2014who are in situations of serious family violence and are too frightened to say so will not only have to pay but also have to face their abuser in a personal dispute resolution process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003ENot only that, but this legislation will make it much more difficult for parties in this process to get access to legal support. So in a situation\u2014and there are thousands of these in New Zealand\u2014where a woman is living in a situation of family violence, has very few economic resources as part of that relationship, is wanting to go to resolve some of these issues, is too frightened to say so, and does not have the money to afford a lawyer to prepare for her legal argument that she can take either through the dispute resolution process or through the court, she is left out in the cold. She has nowhere to go. This system traps her out of justice. This is the system that is supposed to work for her and her kids. What does it do? It locks her out, because there is no understanding in the way that National has written this legislation on the Family Court\u2014no understanding of that real, lived life. Thousands of women\u2014[Interruption] David Bennett is sneering, as he does when it comes to talking about women in vulnerable situations\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d9e86b3ee0249c184c7ab36222f231d\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I ask the member to withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022498e3b2047ee47e6b6945f206fdb05f0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is not a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022570fb460d6a744f08106f074f0c5bdae\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: These women are turning up to refuges every day, and they are ringing up the helplines\u2014which might still exist after funding cuts every day\u2014asking for help and support. Now the Government is changing the Family Court system to make it even more difficult for them to get help, either through dispute resolution or through the Family Court, to establish their legal rights so that they can go forward and live a well life with their kids. This is a Government that would rather take $1,000 from the poorest women in this country than provide them with real justice. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u0022e562e046a0e54cc2a1068c7eac5cc438\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e562e046a0e54cc2a1068c7eac5cc438\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the Family Court Proceedings Reform Bill. The Hon Phil Goff read from the Family Court review regulatory impact statement. He talked about the gaps and the uncertainties, and the significant constraints. He also talked about the engagement with key stakeholders. What he carefully did was leave out a sentence that said this: \u201CThere has been extensive consultation on identifying the issues facing the Family Court and the options for reform. Consultation included meeting with stakeholders, a public consultation paper and an online questionnaire for court users.\u201D In April 2011 Cabinet directed the Ministry of Justice to undertake a review of the Family Court. In response to serious concerns raised by court users, which included the public, judges, lawyers, and counsellors, the review found that, in addition to concerns about rapidly rising costs, the court lacked sufficient focus on meeting the needs of children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EComments were made that we members of the National Party do not know what ordinary lives are for ordinary people. I have been an advocate and a supporter in the Family Court. I have seen the heartache and the distress that that has caused. In the Family Court it has been adversarial. It has been negative for children. It is not focused enough on the most serious cases, even, of domestic violence. As a previous member of the national Taskforce for Action on Violence within Families, and proudly wearing, as an ambassador, the White Ribbon, I say that we, even on this side, do understand the causes of domestic violence and the effect that it has on both women and children. The courts are spending too much time on simple, private matters that are better resolved outside the court. It is too complex, and in recent years has had a huge growth in costs, despite the overall number of applications. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the Family Court Proceedings Reform Bill is to ensure a modern, accessible family justice system that is responsive to children and vulnerable people, and is efficient and effective. It is an omnibus bill. It amends nine different Acts. As was commented, it has been over 30 years since there has been any form of review, so this Government has taken that initiative. The changes in the bill will be supported by the amendments to the Family Court rules of 2002. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThere are three key provisions in this bill. The bill establishes a Family Disputes Resolution process to focus the family justice system towards supporting people to resolve their disputes, where appropriate out of court. I have personally seen the heartache and the heartbreak that descends when children have been at the centre of these disputes. In the regulatory impact statement it was very clear under \u201CStatus quo\u201D that the proposals for reform focus largely on the resolution of parenting disputes. For so long, the focus has been on adults. The focus has not been on the provision to care for the needs of our young and our most vulnerable. This bill is about caring for those who are most in need. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ade537a9aeb94753aa53226e6dd295a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ade537a9aeb94753aa53226e6dd295a7\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E The Government was right this year to review the Family Court, and the Family Court Proceedings Reform Bill, as we know, is the outcome. It is an omnibus bill amending several Acts dealing with children and families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EFamily cases, especially those dealing with the custody of children and related issues, are taking up a rapidly increasing amount of court time, and they are taking up a very large share of the legal aid vote. Many cases are not really suitable for the court and do need mediation rather than determination if possible\u2014if practicable. There is very little benefit for families or children where there is unnecessary resort to the courts, where the family itself can best sort out its issues with some help. Some separated spouses, by the way, not entitled to legal aid are being intimidated by the other spouse, who can get legal aid, resorting to the Family Court when a dispute can be better resolved by mediation and agreement where appropriate and practicable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe thrust of the bill, therefore, is to encourage faster and less expensive resolution by requiring parties to participate in a new out-of-court resolution process and in a parenting information programme before going to the Family Court for a parenting or guardianship order. But that will work only if these services are well resourced, are accessible, and, in particular, are not too expensive. That is the challenge for the Government to demonstrate through the next phases of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EIt is wise, however, to focus the Family Court on matters genuinely needing a court decision where protection of vulnerable people and children can be properly prioritised. It is also positive that an objective of the bill is that Family Court cases be less adversarial in their proceedings, but that is easily said; it is not, of course, quite so easily done. It is right and more beneficial for parties to take responsibility for their own arrangements, with the assistance of the court, concerning the care of children where possible, and this also has upsides for the children and the family. Children never profit from sometimes acrimonious and pointless family disputes, especially over parenting and guardianship. Family disputes can be easily entrenched and worsened by making it too easy to get to the court. Requiring a genuine resolution by way of mediation will help that situation, but, of course, the court must always be there as a backstop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EAnother objective is to try to make the Family Court more responsible to victims of family violence, and that is a worthwhile objective. The new requirement for a mandatory out-of-court resolution process does not apply to family violence cases, so they can still go straight to the court, and that is necessary and a good use of the court\u2019s time. Also, the bill expands the definition of psychological abuse, increases maximum sentences for this from 2 to 3 years, and improves delivery of mandatory non-violence programmes. I think those are welcome measures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EOverall, the result should be to make the Family Court more efficient and cost-effective by refocusing its resources in those ways, and it should speed up court applications by reducing the court\u2019s rapidly increasing workload. But this must never be at the expense of access to the court or because of excessive expense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EOf the issues and matters that I believe still require discussion in the next stages of the bill, the first and foremost will be the cost of the out-of-court resolution processes. As I have said, this must not be an excessive barrier. It should be reconsidered by the Government because $1,000 is far too much as a cost for those alternative processes even if legal aid is available for that purpose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ESecondly, the bill targets the use of professionals, especially lawyers for the parties and lawyers appointed to represent children separately. That is also going to need further investigation, and New Zealand First will never agree to penny-pinching resulting in lack of adequate legal representation where it is really needed. The legislation must be even-handed and not unfairly empower a party that has greater economic resources than another. I therefore welcome the Minister Chester Borrows\u2019 commitment to get it right, and I hope he will listen to some of these concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe bill requires parties to contribute to the cost of expert reports and witnesses in some circumstances, and I agree that it is currently too easy for parties, especially those on legal aid, to get expensive and sometimes unnecessary expert reports, but this has to be balanced against the cases where such reports are really needed. This too needs further discussion so that where a matter goes to the court it is not hamstrung by inadequate expert evidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe bill requires the court\u2019s leave for new proceedings where it has been less than 2 years since the last similar application. This is to discourage repeated applications for parenting and guardianship orders, especially when a party can get legal aid. I am personally aware from my own experience and practice, and as a previous member of the Legal Aid Review Panel, that this has been a problem, and so New Zealand First will certainly support this aspect of the bill. But this is a large bill with many technical issues to examine in the latter stages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EWe think that overall it is a good bill. The devil will be in the detail, and in particular in the costs that it will impose for those out-of-court processes. The bill will fail if that is not reviewed, because $1,000 is grossly too much, and that is not good enough. New Zealand First would have to reconsider its support if that were persisted with. We wish to examine all of the detail of the bill in its later stages, but we are happy to support the bill at this stage because of its overall thrust. But that will be on the condition that the issues I have mentioned are adequately and sincerely dealt with by the Government, which must listen to some of the concerns that we and these parties on this side of the House have expressed. So with those conditions, with those reservations, New Zealand First will, at this stage, support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce0e7760af8647a9b46fd7e946091dd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce0e7760af8647a9b46fd7e946091dd3\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member resuming his seat, Denis O\u2019Rourke, for his contribution. I cannot say as much, unfortunately, for the Green member Metiria Turei, who makes some rather interesting submissions in regard to domestic violence. It is a little unfortunate that those over in the watermelon patch are not so inclined to support many of the measures that we as a Government are trying to put in place in regard to the criminal justice sector and ensuring that the right balance is achieved. It seems that they want to run with the hounds and hunt with the foxes on matters of this sort. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThere are just a couple of points that I want to cover off. Seventy percent of those who currently apply for a fee waiver within the Family Court system get it. Actually, there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that that sort of trend will not continue under this new model.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221df39f9835f8449a800a6bd20ec78317\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there is. It\u2019s a new law\u2014it\u2019s a new regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7937771c1734cd6b48bfe56d6ffc82d\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: None that I have seen, but I will continue on because Mr Little, I am sure, will be quite interested to hear what I have to say on this one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EI would like to commend both Minister Borrows and Minister Collins for the work they have done in terms of addressing the whole criminal justice pipeline. As a former policeman, I can certainly vouch for the fact that it has many moving parts. There are many deficiencies\u2014somewhat like a balloon full of water, it is squeezed in one direction and bulges in another\u2014and it is in the interests of all members of this House, and certainly members of New Zealand society, in my view, that we are prepared to address these deficiencies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThis bill really is a response, as has been mentioned, to deficiencies and issues that have been signalled by the court users: judges, lawyers, and counsellors alike. Those, really, are centred around the rising costs, the lack of focus on the needs of children\u2014highly ironic within a Family Court setting\u2014and the lack of focus on durable and sustainable outcomes. Certainly as a former policeman, but also as a new member of Parliament, the concerns that I have seen through what can be a diabolical process are very worthy of addressing. This bill sets out to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EIn summary, the process is unnecessarily adversarial, it is a very negative experience for children, and it is very broad-brush in its nature. It sort of uses this adversarial sledgehammer to crush the walnut. It is not focused enough on the most serious matters. It tends to treat private matters that could be better dealt with outside of the court in the same way as matters that need the jurisdiction of the court to oversee them. It creates many issues, and I think we would all concede that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EJust to highlight a couple of points, this bill really refocuses the Family Court on matters that, in fact, need that judicial direction, and it does it in a far more timely fashion. It clarifies the principles that are important around, and relevant to, children, and also it provides a much greater focus on out-of-court resolutions. Although there have been some issues on that\u2014I am sure the select committee will help tease out these processes\u2014when you get a legally aided client and one that is not, you so often see a completely different track and a protracted track in the way that that matter is carried out, and some cynical people in society may see that there is a vested interest in those matters being protracted. It is in everyone\u2019s interest that these matters are dealt with in a timely fashion, and I welcome the opportunity for those to be done outside of the court. What we are looking at, really, is 4,000 fewer court applications. This will result in about 2,000 fewer children in front of the court. As I said, I welcome the select committee submissions, which I am sure will be very well traversed by the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThis bill is about efficiencies. It is about creating timeliness, and I think it is about improving the means of resolution in a far more pragmatic, child-friendly, and community-friendly fashion. I have no hesitation in commending this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00220ba28eaba21a463dbcd583b53b688ace\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ba28eaba21a463dbcd583b53b688ace\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I believe that a very good process was begun by the former Minister of Justice, the Hon Simon Power, in respect of instigating the Family Court review, but that process has somehow got sidetracked into this efficiency drive, and it has become a drive to save money. The concerns, I believe, that we are raising on this side of the House are that, in fact, this may have unintended consequences so significant that they could place at risk some of the people whom we all in this House seek to protect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI want to read out 12 key points that were set out in a very important document, and I want to explain where that fits within the context of this legislation, the Family Court Proceedings Reform Bill, that we are debating this evening: \u201CThat the Family Court and its processes warrant review and reform is unarguable.\u201D Everybody agrees with that. \u201CThe problems of cost, delays, inefficiencies, and ineffectiveness are easy to identify. The Family Court of 2011 is not what was envisaged by the Beattie Commission, and that model has never been effectively implemented. There is a fundamental confusion of roles. Is the Family Court a court or a social agency? This confusion inhibits a rational examination of the Family Court. The Care of Children Act 2004 is the most significant source of pressure on the court. That is where the focus of this review properly lies.\u201D I would add to that the Child Support Act, because I believe it is a silent player in all of the dynamics that occur in a breakdown of a relationship involving children. No. 6 states: \u201CReform does not need to jeopardise those who can be properly categorised as vulnerable. The role of the State in private disputes needs to be revisited.\u201D When I use the word \u201Crevisited\u201D, I would say \u201Cre-examined\u201D. There needs to be a better understanding of the role of the State in the settlement of private disputes, because there is a public interest. I want to come back to the public good when I go through the regulatory impact statement, which, of course, I want to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EIt continues: \u201CReforms should be governed by an overarching strategy.\u201D That is a very good idea, to have an overarching strategy when considering reform in such a fundamental area of the law. \u201CFocusing solely on economic fiscal factors may give rise to untended negative consequences.\u201D I really do urge the House to think very carefully about that. \u201CAn effective, simple, and accessible pre-filing, pre-court process is called for. Use of the court as a court of law should be a last resort, and where use of the court as a court of law is called for, efficiencies are available in the form of the laws of evidence, Family Court rules, case management programmes, and assured competencies. These may need refinement, but the tools are already there. Less, not more, process is called for.\u201D This was from the family law symposium held in June last year by the family law section of the New Zealand Law Society. I believe that the lawyers of our country have, actually, come under some unfair criticism from the Government tonight in relation to this particular piece of legislation. All of the advocacy that they have put into this area of law has been firmly founded on principle, in my view, and I think we should be very grateful that they took the opportunity to bring together some of the greatest legal minds in this country, and also some of the people involved in counselling and in the social work fields, in order to debate the fundamental issues that underpin the Family Court review. So it was a very good process\u2014unfortunately, now thwarted by an efficiency-driven Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThat leads me to the regulatory impact statement and the agency disclosure statement at the beginning, prepared by the Ministry of Justice. One of the members opposite spoke of the statement about consultation, but before I get to consultation I just want to highlight for the House the constraints that were highlighted in the report. \u201CGiven the overall fiscal situation, urgent steps must be taken to lower the cost of the current justice system while, at the same time, delivering more effective and efficient court services. This means the options we have considered must be able to be implemented quickly.\u201D So the driver is cost. That is it, and I think that the House should be very wary of the driver being costs when we are talking about such a major reform. For the sake of speed and cost and efficiency, it has meant that the ministry has been prepared to accept gaps and uncertainties in the policy analysis\u2014and a consultation period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI want to continue to read the section that one of the colleagues on the other side of the House referred to, where he talked about \u201Cextensive consultation \u2026 meeting with stakeholders, a public consultation paper and an online questionnaire for court users.\u201D He went \u201Cfull stop\u201D there. Let me read the rest of the sentence: \u201CHowever, because of the timeframe, there has been limited opportunity to discuss the final proposals with stakeholders. There will be an opportunity for consultation at the select committee stage of the future legislation.\u201D Can I just remind this House that consultation is not receiving a submission in a public hearing. That is not consultation. It cannot be even regarded as a substitute for consultation. We have had hearings in front of select committees where we have told submitters that because they are an individual, they have 5 minutes to present their case, and could they leave a little bit of time for questions, and we have had major organisations given 10 minutes, maybe 15 minutes, and sometimes we stretch to 20 minutes\u2014usually the Law Society, on a bill like this, would get half an hour. But that is not consultation. That is about persuading the numbers of members of Parliament who are sitting there, and the officials who are advising them and supporting them, that their case has some merit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI want to remind the House what the Minister said in introducing this legislation, and I am quoting now from Judith Collins, who is the Minister in whose name the bill is introduced: \u201COur reforms will ensure the Family Court renews its focus towards those who need it most.\u201D, said Ms Collins. \u201CThe Court must put the needs of children first, rather than those of private couples with relationship issues.\u201D That is the fundamental flaw in her thinking and it is the fundamental flaw in the legislation. It explains about how we can privatise the cost, because we can say that this is just about the private interests of couples. But can I say that the speedy, sensitive, judicious settlement of disputes that involve the care of our children actually has a huge public interest that must be met, and it is not met by a piece of legislation that will drive the cost into this Family Disputes Resolution service\u2014a solution that we support. We support the concept of the Family Disputes Resolution service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ECan I just say what the family law section of the Law Society said in response. It was not consulted on the proposal that the parties would have to meet the full cost of Family Disputes Resolution, unless they were exempt on the basis that they were eligible for legal aid, and this is its quote: \u201COur recommendations were made on the presumption that parties would make a contribution to costs of professional services.\u201D\u2014so that is the profession, to the lawyers\u2014\u201Cbut on the basis FDR would be predominantly funded by the Ministry.\u201D You know, it is over $900, and it is a cost to be split between warring parties, in some instances, if they agree. And what if they do not agree? How is that going to resolve things? I think that we have to think very carefully about the impact of this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI just want the House to hear another thing from the expert reference group: \u201CHidden power and control dynamics in relationships will mean parents are intimidated into agreeing to settlements which disadvantage them or their children \u2026 Also there will be delays as the Court will not have the proper information needed for making decisions with the result that the conflict between parties will intensify and those cases where a parent is consciously alienating a child from the other parent will be harder to resolve.\u201D That is the problem, that these hidden dynamics in these private relationships get exposed only when there are people independently acting in the interests of children. So I believe very strongly that we need to proceed with great caution, but we will not be supporting this bill to the select committee and we will have to see significant change before we would change our mind further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00228c112d4abf4042d1b301174fee6db450\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c112d4abf4042d1b301174fee6db450\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E I welcome the opportunity to support the introduction of the Family Court Proceedings Reform Bill, which, as has already been noted, will be referred to the Justice and Electoral Committee if it gains support at its first reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI have been listening very carefully to the concerns expressed by some Opposition members this evening. Some of them, I have to say, are unduly alarmist, but, nevertheless, I have taken them on board. I am pleased that they do support some of the bill\u2019s provisions, but I just remind them that both of those aspects will undoubtedly attract submissions when the bill is referred to the select committee, so they will receive due consideration. For that reason, I have to say, I particularly reject Mr Goff\u2019s fairly hysterical contribution and his criticisms that this measure is being rushed and is poorly conceived. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAs the Hon Chester Borrows indicated when moving the first reading of this bill, it is an omnibus bill that is aimed at ensuring that a modern, accessible family justice system, responsive to children and to vulnerable people who come before it, will be in place to meet the ever-changing needs of modern families in our society. Those changes seem to be more dramatic each year and do put particular pressure on the courts and, of course, on the families themselves. So the bill unashamedly focuses on the needs of children\u2014I think that is a good thing\u2014first and foremost, rather than of those couples whose relationships have become strained. Important that those needs are, it is the needs of the children that are rightly being put centre stage when we consider this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI commend the proposed establishment of the Family Disputes Resolution process\u2014in fact, I am pleased to hear that most members seem to agree with that. It is aimed at supporting people to resolve their disputes, where that is possible and appropriate, out of court. It is so much better if that can be achieved out of court by agreement, rather than by some sort of court-imposed settlement. Where it is not appropriate or possible, of course, the bill focuses the Family Court on disputes that will require a judicial decision. That is logical. That is an appropriate evolution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe changes proposed in the bill are designed to make the operation of the court more efficient and more effective. That has to be a good thing. They are designed to reduce or to mitigate the adversarial nature of Family Court proceedings. That has to be a very good thing, particularly where children are caught in the middle of heart-wrenching and often acrimonious disputes. Where we can avoid that, that has to be a good thing, and particularly, as Alfred Ngaro so passionately articulated during his very impressive contribution a short time ago, the bill is focused on improving the court\u2019s response to victims of domestic violence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI want to discuss a few of the features of the bill that may be of interest to those who are listening. What is changing here is that for some private matters people will be supported to resolve their disputes without the need to go to court. The Family Disputes Resolution process is focused on achieving lasting outcomes that the parties can accept and live by. It aims to give people the skills that they need to resolve problems. Surely, that is a healthy move. It is encouraging parents to be responsible for reducing the negative impact that their conflict has on the children involved. The process is better for children than going through the court system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI want to conclude by assuring the House that the Justice and Electoral Committee will work to ensure that the bill\u2019s admirable objectives are achieved. I repeat my support for its introduction this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002202a3fb9e2c1d4fbc85ae54abd42caf7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202a3fb9e2c1d4fbc85ae54abd42caf7d\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand the next call is a split call. I call Andrew Little.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00223e276ac95f794f9da2a06737c611c9d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e276ac95f794f9da2a06737c611c9d5\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to stand and take a call on the Family Court Proceedings Reform Bill. The thing is this: family law is, as we know, one of the most difficult areas of legal practice. It is not like a commercial dispute, where the parties might have some money or an asset at stake. It is not like an employment dispute, where somebody\u2019s feelings might be hurt, or their dignity might be attacked, but they can be assuaged through reinstatement or through a compensatory payment. Family disputes go to the heart of who we are, and when family disputes erupt, people have a huge emotional interest at stake and they have offspring to consider, often a family home, and memories, and all those things that go with it. These are very difficult disputes. So we need to have in place an institution, a Family Court, and family institutions that will help parties of all types to get through their disputes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to read the regulatory impact statement\u2014its analysis of the figures. It says that about 39 percent of the Family Court\u2019s time at the moment is taken up with parental disputes\u2014that would be about right\u2014and that because they do not have accurate figures on how many disputes actually are fractious, difficult, and disputatious, they extrapolate from the English experience and say that about 10 percent of family disputes go to court and about 12 percent of those go on to a hearing. That is what we are talking about. So all this nonsense about how we will just let the parties sort it out themselves\u2014the parties who are capable of sorting out their disputes themselves are already doing so, and they do not need to be patronised any further by an uncaring, unknowing Government that does not know what it is doing and has brought this ill-thought law to Parliament because it, actually, does not know what is going on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWe do not need to be patronised, either. But what we do need to make sure, if this Government is genuinely concerned about the children whose interests and livelihoods are at stake, is that they have a means to get their interests properly and independently advocated, and that they have an institution that will nurse parents, who will be experiencing all sorts of levels of difficulty, through a very difficult period. It will require professional reports and advice, and they will require their own advocates. Some will be difficult and some will be accommodating, and we need a system that can deal with all shapes and manner of those disputes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo the reason why we are opposed to this legislation is that this is nothing other than a cost-saving device. This idea that fractious families will go off and sort it out themselves with the benefit of a mediator, without professional advice and professional reports, is just cloud-cuckoo-land stuff, and it will do more damage to young people, to children, and it will do more damage to the litigants. It is just something that we should not and cannot tolerate, if we are serious about the State playing its useful and constructive role and representing the public interest in family breakdown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E If any political party should know about the impact and consequences of serious family breakdown, I would have thought it would be the National Party, because it is a party where even the party president has had to suffer the experience of the Family Court and family breakdown. The idea that it will now be assisting families and, in particular, the children of families in breakdown with a $1,000 or more cost and fee is just absolute nonsense. So we are left with no option but to oppose the bill, because it is not about reforming the family disputes procedures. It is about putting up barriers, and it will not assist those families in breakdown in the period of significant need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt is presumptuous of the bill, as it says that it presumes families can sort out these disputes themselves. It is presumptuous to do so. Families have to make the judgment. Individual parental parties have to make the judgment about when they need assistance and when they need advocacy, and the court must be in a position to afford and to accord representation to children at this time. When they are at their most vulnerable, when no one is thinking rationally, when everybody is driven by emotions and a sense of loss and grievance, that is when they need the most support, and the Family Court system must be able to do that. So the idea of limiting access to legal advice and support is just plainly ridiculous. For those reasons we will be opposing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00229b6d6633d07f4bb28ab740688b78f132\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b6d6633d07f4bb28ab740688b78f132\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I call David Clendon\u2014a 5-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u00225cb354af51d340639cd041f76b07291b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225cb354af51d340639cd041f76b07291b\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E This Family Court Proceedings Reform Bill is an important piece of legislation. The Family Court plays an important part in our judicial system. It plays an important social role in New Zealand. It is a more than 30-year-old institution and so it is entirely appropriate that we should have a review of its functioning to acknowledge its shortcomings and to seek better outcomes for those who are obliged to seek out its services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe can modernise\u2014yes, that is a good word\u2014and a key focus, a word that keeps popping up in this bill, is \u201Caccessibility\u201D. It is important that we have access to the court processes, but it is more important that people have access to justice, that people who are vulnerable have access to the protection of the State to which they are entitled, and that people\u2019s well-being is protected. Access in that larger sense is something that perhaps is lacking in this bill, and that is one of the reasons we are unable to support it in its current form. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIt is proposed that the court and its processes are not sufficiently focused. That is a fair criticism. The fact that some of the processes are poor\u2014equally, these are reasonable criticisms and those we can take on board and seek good solutions for. But, sadly\u2014and Mr Goff in his far from hysterical contribution made this key point\u2014the primary driver of this bill seems to be the focus on cost-saving. We have this bald number thrown up: $84 million to $142 million, without an equivalent increase in applications. That is not a trivial sum of money, but there is not a lot of detail given us around that. I think if we drill into that we will find that perhaps the implication of this massive cost explosion is actually not particularly well warranted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EBut, critically, it is almost an inevitable phenomenon of these sorts of cost-saving exercises that you end up not saving money but simply exporting costs. You find that the money that is saved in one place will be imposed elsewhere. If we create behavioural dysfunction and social dysfunction as a result of inadequate court provision of services, we will relocate those costs to elsewhere in the justice system, to the education system, to the welfare system. There will be no net saving in dollars and there is likely to be considerable net increase in cost imposed on individuals, on women, on children, and, indeed, on fathers who are involved in these processes as well. So let us not imagine for a minute that cost-saving in itself is a sufficient reason for the level of intervention and change that is being proposed here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe are told that this obligation to go to a dispute resolution process will mean something like 1,200 cases coming to the court, and 2,000 children will not of necessity be exposed to a court process, which is unlikely to be a happy process for them. But, again, those comments are very superficial. The point has already been well made by Mr Little that there is rather an odd logic at work here. It is revealed in the regulatory impact statement the proposition that there is this flood of cases inappropriately coming to the court. We do not have the information. One of the key data sets that is missing is that we do not know what percentage of cases of separation actually come to the court, but we can assume it is around that 10 percent, based on evidence from the UK. So it is actually 12 percent of 10 percent. It is a very, very small proportion. And to suggest that there is, in fact, an overwhelming default to the court, that too few people are sorting out their own lives and their own business and the welfare of their kids, is simply not sustained by the information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe have had already submissions directly from some key organisations: Relationships Aotearoa, the Association of Counsellors, and the Law Commission. It is unfortunate that some of those submitters have been accused of self-interest, the lawyers particularly. We know that lawyers typically rate around there with politicians and used-car salesmen in public perception, but I would argue that people who go into family law\u2014lawyers who specialise in family law\u2014are very unlikely to be motivated by personal wealth. If you want to make a lot of money in the legal profession, I suggest you would not be very bright if you chose family law as your area of expertise. We have highly capable, very committed people in the legal fraternity working on this stuff, and I think it is a fairly cheap shot to suggest that the lawyers are simply feathering their own nests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u00223c72b7bb9a62422ca05959db9191f98d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c72b7bb9a62422ca05959db9191f98d\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to take a call in the Family Court Proceedings Reform Bill in its first reading tonight. I am going to take a brief call. I think this has been well debated already in this House and I look forward to the Justice and Electoral Committee and the submissions that we are going to hear in that process. I do want to respond to a couple of the comments that have been made already in this debate. Andrew Little, just before he sat down, talked about an unknown, uncaring Government that does not know what it is doing. Well, I am just looking at who spoke on this bill tonight from our side of the House and I would just like to let him know that we had the Hon Chester Borrows, who was a policeman for over 20 years and then a lawyer, speak first. We had Alfred Ngaro speak. He was an advocate in the Family Court and on many task forces appointed by both Governments. We have had Mark Mitchell speak on this, who also spent numerous years in the police force. Mike Sabin, who also spent numerous years in the police force, spoke on this, as did Tim Macindoe, who also has a law degree. So if we want to know about people who understand what they are talking about, look at this caucus, because we have got a true depth when it comes to law and order and justice. So when you say we are an unknown, uncaring Government that does not know what we are doing, you are absolutely wrong. I look forward to debating this further in the House and when it comes to our select committee. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220e4e53c0ca8f44e9b53177fe067e4d0e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Family Court Proceedings Reform Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand First 7; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000443\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Justice and Electoral Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000444\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022633f03e389b84d95aa5cfd3b08fa3de2\u0022\u003EPublic Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002222a5fa46591e401dbfb51f845a5d5848\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022024864ae827d44b9b2e26669d4d50f1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022024864ae827d44b9b2e26669d4d50f1c\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Public Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Finance and Expenditure Committee to consider the Public Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Bill. The bill proposes to amend the fiscal responsibility provisions in Part 2 of the Public Finance Act 1989. The changes proposed in the bill aim to ensure that the fiscal responsibility provisions remain a sound guide for fiscal policy now and into the future, and, in particular, into a future where the Government will have surpluses again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAs honourable members know, the fiscal responsibility provisions of the Public Finance Act have guided the formation and disclosure of Government fiscal strategy for over a generation. The provisions require Governments to pursue their objectives in accordance with defined principles of responsible fiscal management. Among other things, the principles require public debt to be reduced to, and maintained at, prudent levels. These provisions have served New Zealand well. It is partly thanks to the provisions that successive Governments have focused on maintaining low or prudent public debt, putting New Zealand in a relatively strong position in having relatively low Government debt going into the international financial crisis of 2008 and 2009.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EHowever, experience tells us that there is room to strengthen the fiscal responsibility provisions to encourage greater transparency around the interaction of fiscal and monetary policy, the impacts of current policy on future generations, and managing resources efficiently and effectively. The additions to the fiscal responsibility provisions in this bill aim to address these and other gaps. The amendment bill introduces three new principles of responsible fiscal management, extends an existing principle, and introduces some new reporting requirements, some of which codify existing practices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe first new principle of responsible fiscal management proposed in the bill is that Governments should formulate fiscal strategy with regard to its interaction with monetary policy. As honourable members know, the Reserve Bank of New Zealand takes changes in fiscal policy into account when it independently sets the official cash rate. The new principle will require the Government to be explicit about the interactions between monetary and fiscal policy at different stages of the economic cycle, facilitating greater transparency in policy making and encouraging greater focus on, and discussion of, the cyclical factors impacting the economy\u2019s performance at any given time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe second new principle introduced by the bill is that the Government should formulate fiscal strategy with regard to its likely impact on present and future generations. Fiscal responsibility provisions currently have a focus of around 15 years. Many decisions, of course, have longer-term effects. This new principle will require Governments to be more transparent about any intergenerational trade-offs their policies imply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe third new principle is that the Government should ensure that the Crown\u2019s resources are managed effectively and efficiently. This principle is supported by a reporting requirement for Governments to set out their priorities for resource allocation and explain how these priorities have influenced and will influence their decisions. The idea behind this principle and reporting requirement is that it is not just aggregate amounts that matter\u2014total spending, total assets, total debt, or total tax revenue\u2014but also the allocation of resources within those aggregate amounts. The principle also aims to facilitate a greater level of public scrutiny of the Crown\u2019s management of its balance sheet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAs well as introducing these three new principles, the bill extends the existing principle relating to the tax system. The existing principle is that Governments should pursue policies that are consistent with a reasonable degree of predictability about the level and stability of tax rates for future years. The bill would strengthen the principle to require Governments to formulate revenue strategy with regard to efficiency and fairness, including the predictability and stability of tax rates. This extension acknowledges that there are important and desirable features of tax systems beyond the level and stability of tax rates, including raising sufficient revenue to meet Government priorities, minimising behavioural distortions and administrative and compliance costs, and sharing the tax burden fairly in a way that is perceived to be fair. These features can be captured by the words \u201Cefficiency\u201D and \u201Cfairness\u201D. Although there are no universally accepted definitions of \u201Cefficient\u201D or \u201Cfair\u201D, the inclusion of the terms in the fiscal responsibility provisions will allow the Government of the day to elaborate on what an efficient and fair tax system means for it, and to bear in mind efficiency and fairness considerations when assessing changes to the tax system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe bill introduces a new requirement for the Fiscal Strategy Report to contain an assessment of the extent to which the fiscal performance of the Government is consistent with its own published fiscal strategy. This requirement introduces a backward-looking element into the Fiscal Strategy Report, which currently is mainly about communicating current fiscal policy and its likely future effects. More of a backward-looking focus will increase disciplines on Governments to stick to announced plans and provide a platform to communicate lessons from past successes and failures of fiscal policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe bill proposes to codify the established practice of including a revenue strategy within the Fiscal Strategy Report. The revenue strategy would be required to include the Government\u2019s objectives for the tax system and tax policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EFinally, the bill also codifies the emerging practice of publishing a Government Investment Statement. The bill would require Treasury to produce an Investment Statement describing the Crown\u2019s significant assets and liabilities at least every 4 years. The first Government Investment Statement was published in 2010, and we consider that it was a useful tool for informing the public and the politicians in Parliament about the state of the Crown\u2019s balance sheet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe fiscal responsibility provisions of the Public Finance Act are constitutionally significant. The Government recognises that any proposed change to the provisions is not to be undertaken lightly. Can I thank members from other parties of the House who have constructively discussed the issues addressed in this bill. The Public Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Bill will ensure that the fiscal responsibility provisions remain a sound guide for fiscal policy, and in this context it is important to see these changes in the context of the economic cycle that New Zealand has just been through. In some respects our fiscal responsibility Act is better aligned towards Governments getting on top of difficult fiscal conditions and high levels of debt, which was certainly the case in the early 1990s when the fiscal responsibility Act was first brought in. Experience has shown us, I think, that it has been less suited to dealing with the temptations and opportunities provided by sustained surpluses. It is certainly the wish of the Government that the House in considering these amendments bear in mind that with economic growth and continuing discipline on spending, there will be fiscal surpluses in the future, and New Zealanders would expect Parliament and the Government to treat that situation in a responsible manner. I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022590813876c98421e8665c46d303c5639\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022590813876c98421e8665c46d303c5639\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the Labour Party to speak on the first reading of the Public Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Bill. The Labour Party will be supporting this bill going to the Finance and Expenditure Committee. Can I thank the Minister of Finance for the consultation that was provided in respect of earlier drafts of the legislation, which was proposed pursuant to the ACT Party confidence and supply agreement with the National Party. It is fair to say that the original drafts of this bill that were brought to us by Treasury were completely unacceptable to the Labour Party. They were fundamentally flawed, in our opinion. I am not blaming the National Government for that; it was promoting policy that was being pursued by John Banks at a time when he had, perhaps, more political force than he now does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAmongst the proposals that were in the draft that was described to us by the Treasury officials who were sent for a discussion with us was the fiscal cap that was referred to by the ACT Party in its election materials. ACT said that the country needed to have a fiscal cap imposed under the Public Finance Act that was binding upon Parliament, including future Governments. So I am pleased to hear the Minister of Finance, Bill English, agreeing that it is inappropriate that this Parliament try to bind future Parliaments in respect of how a country is to be governed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe history of fiscal caps around the world is fraught. You need only to have a look back at recent history in New Zealand to think about how difficult it would be to legislate for an appropriate fiscal cap. New Zealand came through a period of strong economic growth and a period of surplus after surplus. Really, no one around the world, or very few people around the world\u2014there was the occasional person, I have to say, such as Mr Roubini, but other than the occasional economist who thought that the paradigm was wrong and unsustainable, most economists thought that that paradigm could continue for ever and that the world was on a stable growth path and did not have extreme debt problems. The global financial crisis proved that wrong, and since then Governments around the world have had to increase spending counter-cyclically in order to, as the Deputy Prime Minister says, take the sharp edges off recession, as Governments around the world are finding that in order to make their economies work and not sink into a declining whirlpool of decreasing output they have to stimulate their economies through fiscal policy. This has meant that Governments have had to increase spending at a time of recession, put simply. If you had a fiscal cap, the fiscal cap, if it was set during the good times, probably would not allow that. It would be a nonsense and it would have led to far worse outcomes than have been achieved in New Zealand without a fiscal cap. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe other example I would use would be the fiscal cap that has been in place for some time in respect of Californian spending. California at a referendum agreed to a cap on certain levels of taxation, which effectively capped the ability of California to spend. There were certain classes of taxation that by law, until there is another referendum that changes that rule, could not be increased. The effect of that is that the Government in California has not had enough money to do what it needs to do. As a consequence, it has had failing corrections policy\u2014it has got terrible prisons and prison outcomes. But even worse than that, California, which used to have one of the best state education systems in the whole of the United States of America, has had a decline in its educational system because the Government has not been able to collect enough revenue in order to pay for a decent education system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThose two examples show just how lunatic the proposals from the ACT Party were that New Zealand\u2019s Public Finance Act should actually include a fiscal cap. So I am pleased that that policy has been ditched, and this legislation, as a consequence, can have the support of the Labour Party at its first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of other points to be made. None of these changes are actually necessary for the Government to conduct sound economic policy. It is pretty much window dressing. Let us look at the first change. The first change changes the fiscal responsibility set out at section 26G(1)(e) of the Public Finance Act, which currently says: \u201Cpursuing policies that are consistent with a reasonable degree of predictability about the level and stability of tax rates for future years.\u201D It replaces it with these words: \u201Cformulating revenue strategy with regard to efficiency and fairness, including the predictability and stability of tax rates;\u201D. Is that a great change\u2014a great, significant change? I do not think so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d8bc6ca67eb4d7699a9d6670ec00ac7\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Tinkering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229222e3d37de8458fb2d2bda39d2d47a6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Tinkering, as my colleague Clayton Cosgrove says. I do not think there is any problem with those new words, but there is not that much difference, either. It is motherhood and apple pie. It is not going to change much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe three new principles that are added are, firstly, \u201Cformulating fiscal strategy with regard to its interaction with monetary policy;\u201D. I agree that that is appropriate\u2014\u201Cwith regard to\u201D. It does not give monetary policy primacy over fiscal policy, and neither should it. If it went further and said \u201Cformulating fiscal policy so as to coordinate with monetary policy.\u201D and had a requirement on Government, that would be wrong. That would effectively be saying that Government decisions as to the management of the economy had to be subjugated to what was being done with monetary policy through the Reserve Bank. We can live with \u201Cwith regard to\u201D its interaction with monetary policy, but we again make the point in the context of this debate that we have some problems with the current iterations of monetary policy, whereby the interests of inflation targeting always trump other aspects of economic management. In other words, other aspects of economic management, like the health of your export sector, are subjugated to the interest of inflation when there is a contest between the two, which, in our view, is wrong, given New Zealand\u2019s 40-year current account deficit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe idea that Governments current and past have not had regard to monetary policy in setting fiscal policy is a nonsense. The last Labour Government ran surpluses. In fact, one year we ran a surplus of 5 percent of GDP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022681a962afb074c51894f6efefb6f092c\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Who opposed that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269e53c91dfdb4e98ad1f4e767fb5b3e7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that was opposed, Mr Cunliffe, by the National Party. That $10 billion surplus that year was one of the largest as a percentage of GDP in the Western World. At a time when other Western countries like the United States, like England, like most of the countries in Europe were running Budget deficits in a time of plenty, the New Zealand Government under Labour\u2019s leadership on the Treasury benches ran very, very significant surpluses. They were so difficult politically to achieve because the Opposition\u2014the then National Party Opposition\u2014was saying: \u201CTax cuts. Tax cuts are the way forward.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224620f6ef0e25426f804933e209146899\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: They accused us of being mean.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e64ee7a88424d89aa94cc54949e0875\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they accused us of being mean and that we were keeping people\u2019s money from them. In fact, what we were doing was in a time of plenty putting money away. That is why when the Labour Government left office we had reduced gross Government debt from 38 percent to 18 percent of GDP, and net debt down to zero, including financial assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe next new principle is \u201Cformulating fiscal strategy with regard to its likely impact on present and future generations;. Again, Governments should already be doing that, and I think it is somewhat galling to have the Government saying that it should put that into the Act when it is denying the need to address the age of eligibility for superannuation. The biggest cause of increasing Government expenditure going forward\u2014actually, there are two cost centres. One is rising health expenditure and the other is rising superannuation costs. Within 4 years the cost of New Zealand superannuation exceeds the cost of preschool, primary, intermediate, secondary, and tertiary education, plus trade training and the costs of the education ministry. All of those are exceeded by the cost of superannuation. If the Government cannot see that it is time to give advance notice of the need to increase the age of eligibility for superannuation, then formulating fiscal strategy with regard to its likely impact on present and future generations is just hot air. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of the next principle, \u201Censuring that the Crown\u2019s resources are managed effectively and efficiently.\u201D, who can disagree with that? Is the Government really saying that it is not doing that currently? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis legislation is largely inoffensive. There may be some details in respect of the requirement to produce a report reporting against prior Governments\u2019 fiscal strategies. I have a bit of a problem with that, and we will be looking at that at the select committee. But, in general, this bill is much less offensive than if it had tried to impose a fiscal cap, and the Labour Party will be supporting it going to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022279475d4fc5f40ee90673ee48613f169\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022279475d4fc5f40ee90673ee48613f169\u0022\u003EPAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to speak on this, the Public Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Bill. I am very pleased to hear the support of the Labour Party for this legislation, and I would like to pass my congratulations to the Minister of Finance on introducing it to the House. There is no question that the public reporting and transparency provisions of the Public Finance Act have served New Zealanders well for more than two decades in keeping the focus on maintaining low Government debt levels. New Zealanders can quickly forget the horrors of the past when after each election the true state of affairs was revealed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216537e26c1e448e29af1c51b1fa43bfd\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Remember Muldoon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebc22d87e50a47d4badc68590d2c8e56\u0022\u003EPAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: 1984. Yes, indeed, in 1984 and 1990 the situation was ugly. The Fiscal Responsibility Act 1994, which was subsequently folded into the Public Finance Act, was one of Ruth Richardson\u2019s great achievements. New Zealand\u2019s reputation changed from the late 1980s to the 1990s from being a basket case to a country of quality public policy of a robust and disciplined Government. Successive Governments have focused on maintaining low or prudent public debt, putting New Zealand in a relatively strong position going into the international financial crisis of 2008 and 2009.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E It was interesting to hear Mr Parker talk up the record of the Labour Government during that decade, and it should be commended for the surpluses that it brought through in the middle of the decade. But I am bound to say that he did forget about the fact that the decisions that were made in the third term left Government books pregnant with debt for a decade to come. That was the problem that it left us. So it may have been quite good in the first two terms, but certainly not in the third. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThere is scope to make further improvements as we learn lessons from the crisis. This bill, as the previous two speakers have talked about, strengthens the principles of responsible fiscal management as listed in section 26G of the Public Finance Act. I will focus on what is in the bill rather than what is not in the bill. We have talked about the three additions, the first principle being that Government should formulate fiscal strategy with regard to its interaction with monetary policy. That makes good sense. The second one is Governments should formulate fiscal strategy with regard to its impact on future generations. The third principle is that Governments should ensure that the Crown\u2019s resources are managed effectively and efficiently. These are not motherhood and apple pie. They are actually very tough disciplines. I have no doubt that the Government in New Zealand will be the stronger for it. Why is fiscal responsibility important? Because quality public policy and practice and sound financial management bring confidence, and confidence for the private sector to invest and to create jobs. Conversely the absence of fiscal responsibility leads to a lack of confidence and we see evidence of that all around the world today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of other important aspects to the bill, but I want to briefly focus on the revenue strategy in the Fiscal Strategy Report, which will have to include the Government\u2019s objectives for the tax system and tax policy. We have mentioned that this idea of formulating its revenue strategy with regard to efficiency and fairness goes some way to addressing the 13th recommendation of the recent Tax Working Group report. I will be very interested in the select committee consideration in drilling down to the detail on these two very important concepts, efficiency and fairness. Efficiency talks about having taxes that are the least distortionary and introduce the fewest dead-weight costs to the economy. This bill will not stop future Governments bringing in silly taxes, but it will force them to explain themselves to a greater degree. I would imagine if you were going to open up a gap between the top income tax rate and the trust rate, you would have to explain how that was going to promote an efficient tax system. If you were going to start fiddling around with the GST, explaining how that is efficient would be an interesting way to deal with that question. On fairness, I prefer, probably, the concept of horizontal and vertical equity, but again these are two important concepts to introduce into the tax policy and I am sure that they will encourage Governments to articulate the basis for their tax policies in future years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EOn the basis of that I think this is a very interesting bill and will make a great difference over the period of the next few decades. I commend this bill to the House. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022273b71be854c4ee0a94cd6020fd2e4a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022273b71be854c4ee0a94cd6020fd2e4a3\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As my colleague David Parker said, we will support this piece of legislation, the Public Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Bill, going to the Finance and Expenditure Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIt is noteworthy that this is the bill that rolled John Banks. That was John Banks\u2019 former biographer\u2014the man who is now writing his political obituary\u2014who got up. He must have been part of the team to roll John Banks because, of course, John Banks wanted a fiscal cap that bound future Governments. Even the National Party\u2014and I give some credit to Bill English\u2014could not swallow that dead rat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EOld \u201CBrown Bag Banks\u201D, a man who at the start of the electoral cycle after the cup of tea and the election win was a person at the pinnacle of his powers\u2014the pinnacle of his powers\u2014pushed and demanded to be the Minister for Small Business, and demanded that there be a fiscal cap in a piece of legislation like this, and then came a gutzer. Of course, that is why we call him \u201CBrown Bag\u201D. We know why \u201CBrown Bag Banks\u201D came a complete gutzer to the point where Trans Tasman\u2014I think it was Trans Tasman\u2014said the following: \u201CBanks has overseen the complete destruction of ACT\u2019s political brand, taking over where Don Brash left off.\u201D, and \u201Cscandals and police investigations over donations have left his political reputation in tatters.\u201D Things are so bad that \u201CEven if National did not run against him in Epsom again he would still lose.\u201D So what we know is that a cabbage could be painted blue and stand in Epsom\u2014a cabbage off a cabbage boat\u2014and it would take the Epsom seat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWhat I will say, and commend National members for, is that for once in their political lives they slithered out of the caucus room and made a decision. They said \u201CNo, this is unconstitutional, this is fiscally unpalatable, this is morally wrong.\u201D, and they rolled \u201CBrown Bag\u201D. They rolled him\u2014they rolled him. They slithered out of the caucus room, and for once in their measly political lives this Government actually made a call and a decisive one. So on that basis we look at this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EYou would think, listening to the Minister of Finance, that this was some groundbreaking piece of legislation. In fact, colleagues, we have been here before in the law and order portfolio and in the health portfolio with announcement after announcement\u2014and the housing portfolio\u2014of groundbreaking legislative moves and reforms, which, when you read the legislation, actually come to nothing. Let me read you, if I might, a sentence or two from the explanatory note on Part 1 of this bill where it says: \u201CThe Government must pursue its policy objectives in accordance with the principles of responsible fiscal management,\u201D. Right? Nobody would disagree with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d516ca6c7c04f8e9eea77e1d10c9ff0\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f49b322f36824efd890fa32b4e30f643\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Smith says \u201Cabsolutely\u201D. I agree with him. I agree with him\u2014\u201Cabsolutely\u201D. Nobody would disagree with that. Then it says: \u201CThe amendment\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225af359f0f3894232b7d998184f347f1a\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Have you asked Russel? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022800ba50f8d184ea2860ab1046ed0db2b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Settle down. Take a powder\u2014take a powder. Your turn will come. \u201CThe amendment extends an existing principle of responsible fiscal management and adds\u201D\u2014here is the good bit\u2014\u201C3 new principles.\u201D Wait for it. This is probably not a bad thing. This is probably a groundbreaking reform from this tinkering Government. But then you read it, as my colleague David Parker did, and the new principles are the following: first, \u201Cformulating fiscal strategy with regard to its interaction with monetary policy\u201D. Who would disagree with that? Not us. Not the communities. Not people\u2014maybe John Banks would because he wanted something different. And then you try and match that principle with the practical groundwork and the practical actions of this tinkering Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EOf course, it does not believe that there is a problem with our exchange rate. It does not believe that there is a problem or any need for change or reform of monetary policy. It does not believe, as we do, that we should change the structure of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act and the make-up of the board, and should focus not only on inflation but also on the exchange rate, as this party believes. The National Party believes, as the Minister of Finance said before the Finance and Expenditure Committee, that all is well, that the IMF is wrong, Treasury is wrong\u2014everybody is wrong\u2014and the Reserve Bank is wrong when all three say we are headed for the rocks with the current account deficit, but that the finance Minister is right. We have got this wonderful principle that may well be chiselled on tablets of stone, but, actually, if the bill is passed, the Government does not believe the principle, because it has not acted on it. It does not believe in the principle. This is a sap to buy off \u201CBrown Bag Banks\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThen we look at the second principle, which is \u201Cformulating\u2014\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8e24ad0d7ff40c999b72bb07cf3fb9a\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Clayton, SOE sales.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022871dda3a05744c9d9aad26b0d682d21a\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, and State-owned enterprise sales, of course\u2014State-owned enterprise sales. This is the Government that in the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update, of course, banked the revenue from the sale of assets, which a year later have not been sold. It is going to be another 6 months or 12 months\u2014or, hopefully, by the time we get to an election the Government is gone and it will not be able to do it. It banked the revenue from sales that have not happened, but did not bank the loss in dividends. That is how honest the Government is about the fiscal measures and how fiscally responsible it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThen we look at principle two: \u201Cformulating fiscal strategy with regard to its likely impact on present and future generations\u201D. Well, who again would argue with that? It is not a bad principle. But then you look at what the Government has done in respect of tinkering with KiwiSaver and undermining it. Then you look at its stance on compulsory superannuation. Then you look at its stance, as my colleague David Parker said, on the age of eligibility for New Zealand superannuation, and again it denies there is a problem. It denies that future generations will be impacted on. It is all rosy out there for New Zealanders, it says. So it is a great principle, whittled into tablets of stone, I am sure, but this Government does not believe it, because it will not act on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThen we have the third one: \u201Censuring that the Crown\u2019s resources are managed effectively and efficiently.\u201D Well, look at some of the programmes that have come a gutzer. There was the \u201CRoad to Nowhere\u201D, the cycleway, which was supposed to generate hundreds, if not thousands, of jobs\u2014gone. Mining of national parks, a pipedream, was stuffed up by this crew\u2014gone. Then there was the financial centre of excellence, or whatever it was called. That was going to be the next silver bullet. It did not happen\u2014gone. No plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWhat we have got here is a nice little political pamphlet, which, I have to say, we do not disagree with in principle. These are sort of eminent principles and goals that Governments should follow. What I would put to the Government is simply this: why does it not follow them, if it believes in them? It has had an adequate opportunity in respect of monetary policy, superannuation, and KiwiSaver, etc., etc., etc., and it has done nothing, because it believes that there is no problem with our economy, no problem with 175,000 people out of work, no problem with 90,000 young people not in education, training, or work\u2014no problem at all. Everything is rosy, and the people of New Zealand should be grateful for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWell, I say that if the Government believes in these principles\u2014it is the Government\u2019s bill, after all, and it has the numbers to pass it\u2014then we await with interest to see whether it will actually act on those principles: safeguarding future generations, monetary policy, those key issues that will, if dealt with appropriately, effect Government policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI have got to say, when you are recasting history, that I remember getting up as Associate Minister of Finance and making a speech about the surplus that Labour had\u2014we had nine of them. I never thought in my 30 years in the Labour Party that I would stand in Parliament and be attacked by a National Party for not spending money, for being frugal, and for squirreling away the dollars for a rainy day. Bill English got up and said that we were mean, that we were Scrooges, that it was the \u201Cchewing gum Budget\u201D, and that we should spend the lot, dish it out\u2014that is what we should do. I never thought in my wildest dreams that I would be attacked by a National member for not spending the dough and for creating surpluses, as our Government did, but that is what the National Party did, and now it recasts history. I just say to members over there let us compare 9 years of surpluses with National\u2019s record\u2014record borrowings and the second-worst current account deficit in the world, which is soon to be the first, the worst, in the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWhen we asked Bill English before the Finance and Expenditure Committee why he thought he was right and the IMF, Treasury, and the Reserve Bank were wrong, in terms of forecasting how bad it would be, his strategy was \u201CI don\u2019t think the rest of the world will allow our current account deficit to get really bad.\u201D That is sort of like saying \u201CWell, eventually, the bank manager will cut off the oxygen and stop lending us money.\u201D That is basically what the strategy was from the financial guru the Minister of Finance: \u201CThe world won\u2019t let us, you know, keep injecting the serum. They\u2019ll stop it. They\u2019ll cut the cable on us.\u201D That is a wonderful strategy, is it not, to reassure the people of New Zealand? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe will support this bill. We will support it, but I say to the National Party that if you want to write a bill with some principle in it\u2014after you have rolled \u201CBrown Bag\u201D, John Banks\u2014you have got to, actually, practically demonstrate that you are committed to the principles in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u00222a647e50de3146a28a3e5e7514d211fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a647e50de3146a28a3e5e7514d211fc\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on behalf of the Green Party on the Public Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Bill. It is with great pleasure that I speak to this bill, which I think is an excellent bill. I think the Minister of Finance should be congratulated on putting the bill together. It was great that we got rid of the spending caps, which were a silly ACT Party intervention into the debate, but now that sense has been seen and we have got rid of that one, actually we have ended up with a good bill. There are a lot of good things about this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe first part is about being explicit about how fiscal policy settings will interact with monetary policy. Of course, this is something that has always been implicit, but putting it explicitly into the Public Finance Act seems to me a very responsible and sensible thing to do. I would argue, in fact, that those of us who are supportive of a capital gains tax, excluding the family home, would have quite a bit to say about the way a capital gains tax could influence monetary policy and actually take some of the pressure off monetary policy in terms of trying to control housing asset bubbles in the future. I would be very interested to see Treasury\u2019s analysis, given that it has for a long time been supportive of a capital gains tax, of using this bill and the new requirements in this bill to look at the effect of a capital gains tax on the interaction between fiscal policy and monetary policy. We believe, as Treasury does, that a capital gains tax has a very positive effect on that interaction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EAnother part of this bill is that the Government must state how the Government\u2019s fiscal policy will impact on present and future generations, and it is expected to take a 40-year perspective. I think this is a very healthy development for our democracy. From the Green Party\u2019s point of view, we try to take a long-term, intergenerational approach to policy\u2014for example, around climate change, which is a classic, if you like, environmental issue, but, of course, is a highly economic issue and social issue as well. Having the Government required to take a 40-year view, to take a long-term, intergenerational view, seems to me a very positive development. I want to come back to that shortly with regard to public-private partnerships.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EObviously, the Government has included the principle that tax revenue needs to be raised \u201Cefficiently and fairly\u201D. The Minister of Finance made a point in his speech that, clearly, this is a subjective thing\u2014what is efficient and what is fair. But I think he rightly made the point that the Government will be required to explain what it thinks is efficient and what it thinks is fair in terms of raising revenue. Getting that on the record and getting it transparent is, I think, a positive thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe next part of this bill is the retrospective or looking-back element. I think this is a very healthy development. Often we find when we read the Government statements that they cover the present and they have these projections, and the projections are always wonderful and about how everything is going to get better. So I think it is quite good that there is an element of looking back that will be required in the reporting elements around the Budget. Having that backwards-looking element is, I think, a very positive development. It requires the Government and Treasury to look at what the Government said it would do, then what it actually did, and, hopefully, to make some kind of assessment about how things worked\u2014whether they worked well or whether they did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe other part of it is about instituting or formalising the Government\u2019s Investment Statement. This was a great innovation by the current Government and Minister of Finance\u2014to put out the Investment Statement. Obviously, it was linked in part to the Government\u2019s asset sales programme\u2014which we do not agree with\u2014but the Investment Statement itself is, I think, a positive development in terms of reporting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ETaken together, I think these provisions are really good and this is a really good bill. Obviously, we still have a lot of criticism of some of the Government\u2019s strategy, and we would argue that it is not meeting, if you like, some of the good principles that are actually in this new bill. None the less, in terms of a reporting requirement, it seems to me quite sensible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EI want to talk a little bit about PPPs and debt, and how they might be covered by this reporting requirement, because I think it is important. PPPs are public-private partnerships. There are many variants, but we could look at motorways. The Government has got a problem with motorways at the moment. It has this extraordinarily large motorway building ambition, but the revenue source for that motorway building ambition is drying off, because State highway volumes have remained flat now for over 5 years. So the Government\u2019s problem is how it funds it. Traditionally, in the past it would have done it through debt, and there is a very clear way to record debt on the books, so we would have had a clear view of that. The Government is now exploring using public-private partnerships. So, essentially, if we were to look at a project\u2014one of the motorway projects\u2014the Government would get a private corporation to build the project, and then the Government would pay it a certain amount every year to run that highway for any number of years into the future. Essentially, it becomes the Government paying this private corporation this payment every year for many years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s and Steven Joyce\u2019s aim in this is to sign up contracts so that future Governments cannot stop these major motorway projects. That is the political ambition of the Government. The Government wants to lock any future Government into large motorway projects, whether it supports them or not. That is why the Government is going down the public-private partnership route, from the point of view of a political reason. From the point of view of a financial reason, and related to this bill, it is to try to hide the cost. If the Government had to go out and borrow a whole bunch of money to build these motorways, we could all point to the debt and say \u201CHey, you\u2019ve taken on this debt. There\u2019s a certain cost of servicing that debt.\u201D So what the Government wants to do is sign a contract with a private provider, which then builds the motorway, and the Government pays it an income stream over 10 or 15 years further down the track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe question I have is how the Government books will treat these things, because it seems to me that if you borrow money and then you pay it off over a certain period, you are, effectively, committing yourself to pay a certain amount of money every year for 15 or 20 years\u2014however long it takes. If that is a debt trap to pay for the motorway projects, compare that with a public-private partnership. Effectively, it is the same thing\u2014that is, the Government is committed to paying a certain amount of money every year for a certain number of years. So it seems to me that if the Government is going to be straightforward and honest in its reporting of these kinds of public-private partnership instruments, it should report them as a liability, essentially, on the Government, because the Government has to pay these payments, in a public-private partnership, well into the future as if they were debt. So I would be very interested to explore in the Finance and Expenditure Committee how the Government proposes to account for public-private partnerships on the Government books. I am not sure how this bill will affect that. I hope it will have a positive effect in the Government being transparent that, actually, public-private partnerships are effectively the same as taking on giant wads of debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe other part of it that I think is kind of interesting\u2014it is a very interesting bill, this one\u2014is that it is like Treasury\u2019s redux against Labour about student loans and Working for Families payments, in a way. What Treasury liked about the last Labour Government was that it paid down debt, and it did it in a big way. It was hard to criticise it. National was totally wrong in all its criticisms of the last Government in terms of it paying down debt. The one great thing, the positive thing, that the current Government inherited from the last Government was the fiscal position, which gave it a lot of leeway. But what Treasury really hated was the Working for Families payments and the interest-free student loans. The reason it hated them was they did not appear on the books as debt but, effectively, had kind of long-term fiscal impacts on the Government books. So what they are trying to do with this bill is to lock in some kind of accountability\u2014from its point of view, accountability\u2014for what are the long-term fiscal impacts of making decisions like interest-free student loans or Working for Families, and trying to make the Government of the day account for those out-years the very significant, long-term effects of making decisions like interest-free student loans or Working for Families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EBill English kind of hinted at this in his speech. He did not want to say it explicitly, but there is an inherent criticism from Treasury in that on the one hand it liked the last Labour Government because it was responsible on debt, but, on the other hand, it made these commitments, which from Treasury\u2019s point of view locked in future Governments and the fiscal position going forward, and Treasury wants the accounts to reflect that. I think that is reasonable. Although I am a supporter of these policies, I think it is reasonable that we need to factor in the long-term fiscal impact when we make decisions like that, because I do believe that, you know, responsible Governments need to look at the impact of their decisions on future generations. I wish that the current Government would take this to heart in a lot of its decisions. For example, if we were to look at the current Government\u2019s decisions on the emissions trading scheme, we see that they have very long-term and very, very significant fiscal impacts on the Government. It is very hard to account for them properly, and Treasury has kind of struggled to do that, but even the last round of changes, according to Treasury\u2019s own Cabinet paper, cost $300 million. So the decisions that the Government makes around climate change not only have very significant environmental and social effects in terms of the broader or the real world; they also have very significant fiscal effects going forward. It will be very important to us to make sure that this bill and the existing arrangements properly account for the true fiscal impacts of decisions like the Government\u2019s decision around climate change, because that has such enormously significant impacts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EI am also interested in the concern of Treasury about pro-cyclical fiscal policy. I am also very interested to see what the matching side will be in terms of monetary policy. What are the macro-prudential tools we will introduce to prevent pro-cyclical monetary policy from the Reserve Bank side, if we are going to be keeping a close eye on pro-cyclical fiscal policy? Because those two things do need to be aligned and matched together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EBut, anyway, it is a good bill and I look forward to the select committee hearings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3c7f45868c64e94b3ce35f9361028c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3c7f45868c64e94b3ce35f9361028c9\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I need make only a brief contribution on this bill, the Public Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Bill, because it is such common sense and the fact that it is being supported so widely across Parliament indicates what a sound bill it is. Just to briefly comment on the contributions that have been made, it is not surprising that the media are openly speculating on Russel Norman as a Minister of Finance in an alternative Government when you contrast the speeches we have just heard from Clayton Cosgrove and from Russel Norman. It is not surprising when we contrast the sort of nasty negativity, which does not speak anything of the values or vision that Labour has, with, yes, a very different vision that the Greens have. It is a vision that I think would be a disaster for New Zealand, but at least we have some idea of what the Greens might stand for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWe need look no further than the social disaster that is unravelling in the southern parts of Europe and the fiscal crisis in the United States of America to recognise the importance of good fiscal policy to New Zealand\u2019s future. In my 23 years in this Parliament I would say that the single most important Act that changed the prospects for New Zealand was that 1994 Fiscal Responsibility Act. In the 20 years prior to that, New Zealand\u2019s books were very poorly managed by both National Governments and Labour Governments. In the 20 years since, New Zealand has moved from being one of the worst performers in the OECD to one of the better performers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIn typical Bill English style, though, this bill is about making those incremental improvements in that Act, and I want to comment on the three major ones. The first is that fiscal policy has got to be better aligned with monetary policy. New Zealanders have so often been punished with high interest rates, not because the Reserve Bank is not doing its job in controlling inflation but because Governments have spent up big and there has been a high price for New Zealanders to pay for that. I say when I read Labour\u2019s big-spending policies that among the biggest losers will be those New Zealand families who are aspiring to own their own home, because of the interest impact that those policies will have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESecondly, this bill makes good sense to be focused on the level of fiscal responsibility not just today but looking out into the future. When we came into Government in 2008, we were looking at a decade of deficits, and I will not be lectured by members opposite about fiscal discipline, given the level of projected debt and spending that the Labour Government had built into the bottom lines of New Zealand that saw ever-ballooning debt and deficits going out for 10 years. That left the Minister of Finance, Bill English, with a nightmare. He is going to have to spend the best part of his career actually pulling back on the extravagant spending that occurred in the term of the last Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe third big change in this bill is in terms of focusing on the efficient and effective spending of public money. There are so many areas in which Government money was poorly expended. I really look forward to the discipline that these reforms will apply. Let me give you just one simple area in closing. I spent the best part of the last 3 years trying to improve the solvency of ACC. It was down to 45 percent. Members opposite laugh, but it was at 45 percent solvency. If it was an insurance company, it would literally be broke. We have improved that up to 75 percent. Judith Collins is doing a great job of continuing that work. We are determined as a Government to get to 100 percent solvency. What worries me is that Labour\u2019s spokesperson on ACC said Labour wants to go back to pay as you go. It wants to go back to pushing the cost out into the future. That sort of policy will be held in check by these sorts of provisions, which will expose the fiscal nonsense of those sorts of changes, which we would not support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis bill is just part of the package of the sensible financial policies that this Government is adopting, which protect New Zealanders from the sort of loose fiscal policy that can cause so much social harm, as we see in so many parts of the world. I urge the House to support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e88750183f634e68995801641493f8de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e88750183f634e68995801641493f8de\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I take a call on the Public Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Bill on behalf of New Zealand First. We will be different from the other parties in that we will not be supporting this bill. The reason we are not supporting it is mainly that we think it is irrelevant and totally unnecessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThis Parliament currently has something like 64 Government bills on the Order Paper\u201464 Government bills. It is incredible how much legislation should be coming before this House instead of irrelevant bills like this that are basically just again moving the deckchairs around on the Titanic and tinkering around the edges in terms of finance and taxes. We believe that if the Government was doing its job correctly and as it should be, this bill would absolutely be totally unnecessary. Basically, this is just another waste of parliamentary time when the Government should be getting on with a lot more important things on the Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EWe have only to look back to things such as the Rena disaster, where there was legislation on the books that was sitting there for something like 2 or 3 years waiting to be put through. It had buy-in from every party in this House and the Government did not move that legislation on. And because it was tardy and did not move that legislation on, the Rena hit the rocks and we were then caught with our pants down, literally, and as a result it cost the New Zealand taxpayer another $30 million or $40 million because that legislation had not been put through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EAt the same time, there are things such as the war pensions review, which sat around for 2 years under this Government, and finally has been moved on in the last couple of months. But, again, with our senior veterans getting longer and longer in the tooth and older and older all the time, and desperately waiting for this Government to move on the 170 recommendations of the Law Commission, it took 2 years to get that review finally into action. We commend the Government for doing it, finally, but it took 2 years, while rubbish like this bill, which is totally unnecessary, is put before the House. If the Government was actually doing its job properly, and if it was overseeing, managing, and governing the Public Service as it should be, then this bill would be totally irrelevant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThe bill proposes to amend the Public Finance Act to include three new principles, the extension of an existing principle regarding revenue, and a new reporting requirement to assess past fiscal strategy. These changes are unnecessary. The principles are, in fact, common sense. There is no need to write them into legislation. It goes without saying that people elect a Government to manage resources effectively and efficiently. Anything else would be wasteful, even reckless. Any Government that cannot manage resources effectively and efficiently will soon be found out and punished by the electorate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EIt also goes without saying that a Government should formulate fiscal strategy with regard to monetary policy. By definition, macroeconomic policy has to take into account the whole economy. There is something seriously wrong with a Government that does not see the bigger picture. In that respect, we have heard other speakers tonight allude to the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill, which was brought to this House by the Rt Hon Winston Peters, in terms of having a full review after 30 years of having the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act and seeing what other mechanisms the Reserve Bank could put in place to have our economy performing better in terms of the New Zealand dollar and the overvaluation of the New Zealand dollar. That bill was dismissed outright by this Government\u2014absolutely dismissed outright by this Government. It did not want a bar of it. It did not even want to put it through to a select committee to consider looking, after 30 years, at a review of the Reserve Bank. This is absolute hypocrisy on the part of this Government. On the one hand, it is not prepared to look at the Reserve Bank, but, on the other hand, it wants to tinker around with the Public Finance Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThe third principle states that Governments should be \u201Cformulating fiscal strategy with regard to its likely impact on present and future generations;\u201D. Well, that, in fact, is an admission by the Government that it has failed to take these matters into account in the past. If it is having to put that into legislation now, what was it doing before? We do not oppose the need for Governments to be explicit about any intergenerational trade-offs their fiscal policies may have. We are simply saying that it is unnecessary to write this into legislation. It is nothing more than another symbolic gesture from the National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThe Public Finance Act also provides a legal framework for the financial management system of the New Zealand Government. It controls the manner in which Parliament keeps a watch on Government expenditure. This is fundamental for our democracy. It provides an essential check and balance, which ensures transparency and accountability. We believe that the Act, in its current, present form, is fit for purpose and does not need further amendment. If it ain\u2019t broke, don\u2019t fix it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThis Government should have jobs as its priority, such as the parliamentary inquiry into manufacturing. Again, this Government dismisses what is a cross-party parliamentary inquiry into the manufacturing sector in this country, which has seen 1,300 companies go out of business in the 4 years that National has been in power, and has seen more than 40,000 jobs go out of the manufacturing sector while this Government has been in power. So while it tinkers around, playing around with the Public Finance Act, it ignores a very vital manufacturing inquiry that has been put forward by the Opposition parties to seriously look at how we can get manufacturing in this country back on its feet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EWe need policies to stimulate growth. This bill does nothing to get New Zealanders back into work. It does nothing to boost exports. Again, as we have seen with the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act situation, this does nothing to address the seriously overvalued New Zealand dollar. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EIt also does nothing to develop new industries or broaden the productive base of the economy. We had only to look at the Q\u002BA session on the weekend and look at the suggested ideas that were put forward there. You know, some of them were a little bit extreme, but others were interesting concepts. But, again, what did we see from the Minister Judith Collins? Basically, cold water poured on any good ideas that any New Zealanders who came forward put to her. Basically, typical of this Government, it was: \u201CLet\u2019s not listen to anybody else. Let\u2019s just do what we want to do.\u201D This bill is a reflection of that. Government members want to just tinker with an existing Act, instead of getting on with new business, new growth, new opportunities, growing the New Zealand economy, and looking at real ways to improve the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First will not be supporting this bill. We think it is a waste of time. We think the Government should be getting on with some of the other 64 Government bills that are on the Order Paper that have greater impact on New Zealanders and on the New Zealand economy. This is only window dressing, and another glossy attempt by National to just put nice words and nice rhetoric around a Government bill. But at the end of the day it is just plain tinkering around the edges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f82e342193f34b61aedc55e9669268c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f82e342193f34b61aedc55e9669268c1\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to take a short call. I think Nick Smith gave a very good speech outlining some of the fundamental arguments on what this bill, the Public Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Bill, is about. But I am a little bit perplexed by the Opposition parties here tonight, and especially, first of all, New Zealand First. It is a party based on principle, I would imagine\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249b291c8dc7c4eebb8b0ff0700426d49\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: We certainly are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b460cfe376864b39b62aa98cccce5d9f\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: They certainly are, are they not, Andrew. It is a principled party that will not support a bill that sets down the principles of how you would run the finances of New Zealand. That is something that just goes without mention. On the one hand, members of the New Zealand First Party advocate principles, but when it comes to the practice of actually implementing them in this House they run a mile. They just cannot live up to what they say. Then you have got the Labour and Green parties. It is very unusual for the Green Party to support a bill. This is all part of the Russel Norman approach of being seen as a moderate economic person. The Green Party, finally, is going to support a financial bill in this House, but the Green Party and the Labour Party would not be able to satisfy this bill. Any of the policies that they have put up in the last year or so\u2014there are not many of them, but any of them that they have, like their capital gains tax, their emissions trading scheme reforms, and their housing policies\u2014would not satisfy this bill. The Labour and Green parties would not be able to satisfy it, because they are not in the best interests of New Zealand\u2019s position going forward. It is amazing that the Opposition parties are now supporting a bill that they would never be able to satisfy. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00224037bb23500c40be9af505ff08251e3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224037bb23500c40be9af505ff08251e3c\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Deputy Speaker, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. I stand, along with my colleagues, to say that we will support this bill, the Public Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Bill, going to the Finance and Expenditure Committee. Unfortunately, it is a pale imitation of what it could have been. But I want to direct our attention to an irony\u2014and, hopefully, it will enjoy some serious consideration at the select committee, because it actually does raise some grave issues. There is an irony that part of the bill\u2019s architecture is designed to strengthen the connection between monetary policy and fiscal policy, yet this is a Government that has taken a very laissez-faire approach to the relevance of monetary policy in the operation of the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI will come back to monetary policy, but before I go much further, the bill talks about managing the impacts of current policy on future generations. Nowhere is that more relevant than in dealing with the difficulty of New Zealand and its roughly 4.5 million people and an ageing population. It is an ageing population that is going to create a further burden on the ability of future taxpayers to meet not only the costs of the pension, but also the medical costs\u2014and they will grow\u2014associated with our ageing population. I bear no ill will to anyone over the age of 65. Indeed, we need to cherish that part of our legacy\u2014that we have got respect and a willingness to care for those who leave the workforce. But unless a bill of this nature impels the Government of the day to take tough fiscal stances in relation to such an issue, it is a sop. Unless we deal with the age of eligibility, and unless we deal with the long-term costs of our current pension policy, then we are creating a set of fiscal constraints and fiscal difficulties that future generations are going to struggle with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ETherein lies a further conundrum within this bill. The people we are asking to bear the cost of our ageing population are the very ones in many respects who have been starved by the current Government\u2019s approach to human capital formation, education, training, and vocational development. When we talk about the efficient and effective usage and allocation of resources, the bill is totally silent on how this Government is using the levers of fiscal policy to invest in the current generation of school leavers\u2014the current generation of, as we might say in Te Ao M\u0101ori, the rangatahi\u2014to ensure that they have actually got educational attributes, applicable applied skills, to meet the costs of this ageing grey bomb. We cannot actually overstate the importance of that challenge, which is why, despite the fact that from a machinery point of view we look forward to dealing with this bill in the relevant select committee, we are disappointed that, actually, the bill is silent on such large challenges as the one I have briefly adumbrated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EMonetary policy is now a key battleground. Unfortunately, up and down the maraes, the halls, the villages, the shopping malls, etc., of Aotearoa it does not rate very highly. But the reality is that those of us who seek to influence and transform the nature of the trajectory that the country is on are going to delve deeply into the operation of monetary policy. So although the bill correctly acknowledges that the Reserve Bank has exclusive authority there, the bill avoids making an improvement that my colleagues David Cunliffe, David Parker, and Clayton Cosgrove have reminded me about, and that is too much power being in the hands of one individual. I believe that the current co-leader of the Green Party is entitled as a parliamentarian to express his exasperation and his views about the probity, the independence, etc. of the current Governor of the Reserve Bank. It is not a view that I have about that individual. Mr Norman is entitled to do that, but the deeper problem is not to do with the independence of the personality; it is to do with the principles upon which that person is operating, and this bill is spectacularly silent on how the current monetary policy operation is imperilling our ability to grow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe Government, whilst it makes this sop to, I guess, one of its coalition partners, misses an amazing opportunity to point out that unless you change the parameters, unless you change the writ that the Reserve Bank is required to work to, then you are going to straitjacket the ability of fiscal policy to play a more meaningful role, because it is going to be conquered by an unnecessarily high dollar and also a very narrow set of monetary applications. This bill either avoids that or reflects the fact that it is not part of the belief system of the current Government. Government members are entitled to run the economy in that fashion. It is a type of operation that I thoroughly disagree with, that we do not endorse, but as much as it pains us, they currently have the democratic authority to do that. It is only a shame that employees will be deemed to be superfluous, businesses will fail, and exports will diminish whilst they keep going on this irrelevant and most egregious course of action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIn relation to the impact of fiscal policy in key social areas, the bill needs to ensure that it does not constitutionally condemn one Parliament to unwisely follow the fiscal priorities and the fiscal strategic areas of interest that the current Government is pursuing. Rest assured that come 2014 there will be a happier mix of policies and there will be a more vibrant mix of ideas that will comprise fiscal policy on this side of the House. Although this bill does codify a set of standards that a future Government might need to observe, this bill must not defeat the key constitutional principle that in our version of the Westminster parliamentary democracy one Parliament cannot bind a future Parliament, because woe betide that we should be condemned to follow on what Bill English and his colleagues are doing at the moment. We see record numbers of young people with no hope in relation to the job market. I do not need to state again how many of us have watched fellow Kiwis disappear over to Australia. A fiscal policy has to ensure that they find a reason to continue to commit to their own country. They will do that if firms invest, communities are vibrant, and people have an economic purpose for wanting to continue to give to their own country and find a little bit of sunshine, create a family, and build a better place for their children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E This bill says nothing about that. All this bill really does is regurgitate a whole bunch of things that Treasury does on a regular basis. Much of it is arid and likely to be of no interest to the average voter. At one level it is facile, but it does remind us that the stewards of the nation, in terms of fiscal policy, do need to have a set of transparent standards. But that fiscal policy has to be relevant to the economic and social challenges of the time. The current fiscal policy is not driving us in the wrong direction; it is driving our people out of New Zealand. It is driving out the very young men and women who are, as the Aussies would call it, tradies\u2014those with valuable skills who are disappearing over there\u2014whilst at the same time those who are left behind and want to acquire valuable skills are being starved out of opportunity and a place in our various tertiary institutions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, the bill says nothing about that. The bill, however, does codify a set of principles, and they flow in a direction that the majority of us see as being sensible. It is disappointing only that this bill is totally silent on the issues that count. However, we look forward to dealing with the bill and those redoubtable souls who might find time to come and give us their views about this bill in the future. Thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8542979bd3f44f1ace3cbd153fb5e75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8542979bd3f44f1ace3cbd153fb5e75\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Public Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Bill at its first reading. This is a piece of legislation, of course, that is entirely consistent with this Government\u2019s philosophy. We are all about responsibly managing the Government\u2019s finances. It is one of our main priorities, along with ensuring that the Crown\u2019s resources are managed more responsibly, which are alien concepts to the Opposition benches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWe have outlined already the three main new principles. The Minister of Finance set them out at the outset of this debate and I will not go over those again. I agree with the other speakers that although the Public Finance Act 1989 has served us well as a nation for more than two decades now\u2014the public reporting and transparency side of it\u2014we do need to take up the lessons from the global financial crisis, and this bill gives us further scope to make improvements. I certainly believe, unlike the Opposition forces, that the taxpayers in New Zealand deserve better. They need a decent report card to accurately measure what is going on with Government expenditure, they want predictability and stability, and they want efficiency and fairness in the tax rates. I think that our Government\u2019s fiscal performance is consistent with its strategy, but this is a piece of legislation that will ensure that other Governments in the future adhere to these principles of fairness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI commend this piece of legislation for all the reasons that have been outlined. I think it is important that we formulate a fiscal strategy that does recognise the likely impact on current and future generations. It is for this longer view, this broader vision that cannot possibly be appreciated by the narrow purview of the opposing forces. This is the kind of long-breadth vision that National under John Key aspires to, and this is a perfect piece of legislation. I commend the Public Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Bill to the House. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00222183644b0cbd4306b87ee75cb3a343df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222183644b0cbd4306b87ee75cb3a343df\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon David Cunliffe\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u00220ec50bf6c03b48ca94a816a03e11907a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ec50bf6c03b48ca94a816a03e11907a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Public Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Bill and to concur with colleagues that the Labour Opposition will be supporting the bill to go to the Finance and Expenditure Committee. But the select committee will have quite a job to do because there are a number of interesting kinks in this draft that may well need ironing out. In my remarks tonight I propose to briefly summarise what is in the bill, what is not in the bill, what it will not do, and what are some potential fish-hooks that the select committee may wish to consider. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIn line with colleagues I can say to the House that the Labour Opposition would most definitely have opposed any version of this bill that contained a mandatory or rigid fiscal cap. The reason for that is quite simple. If it were set at a level where it actually had some practical effect\u2014that is, it was able to bite against fiscal policy in the future\u2014then it would create an ideological barrier to a potentially appropriate response to circumstances that could not be foreseen at the time of writing. Who in 2004 knew that the global financial crisis was going to happen in 2008? And who knew that the Christchurch earthquakes were going to happen before they did? Christchurch was not even considered a high-risk zone, yet that is a $30 billion problem, which the Government has, quite rightly, had to invest significant fiscal resource in solving. So the fiscal cap was very bad policy. Even Peter Dunne described it as \u201Can unnecessary right-wing agenda\u201D, which the National Party had introduced simply pertaining to its coalition agreement. Mr Dunne in a flash of sanity and courage said he would not vote for the bill. Hence the cap is no more, and good job too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWe would also have opposed some of the language in earlier drafts of this bill. We do appreciate that the Minister did through his officials consult with the Labour Opposition and that there has been serious discussion about the content of the draft, and we wish to acknowledge that. We think the current draft is much better than the early draft, and I thank officials for their role. The early draft flew in the face of precedent in the UK and in Australia, and contained language that would have biased the Act towards a very fiscally conservative\u2014an unduly fiscally conservative\u2014standpoint, rather than having the degree of balance that the current draft has. We think it is a substantial improvement. That is not to say that the select committee upon taking submissions might not further improve it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ESo what is new in the bill? There are three new principles espoused for what fiscal responsibility should mean to any Government\u2014and I mean any Government because this is a long-term piece of legislation that will guide and, in fact, bind both sides of the House. The first principle is that fiscal policy must have regard to monetary policy. As previous speakers have said, who can argue? It is implicit, anyway, and it is one of the key reasons why the Labour Party has supported a capital gains tax\u2014that is, to take some of the heat out of the already re-exuberant property roller coaster and thus to take some pressure off interest rates, and to allow the Reserve Bank to govern for a more appropriate, nationwide, cross-sectoral balance of stimulus and retrenchment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EBut beware an auto-pilot response, because there are some on the far right of politics who say that whenever you cut Government expenditure, GDP will increase. President Reagan imported that argument from a Professor Laffer. It was known as the Laffer curve. The monetary policy response to a tight fiscal stance would be so wonderful that cutting Government expenditure would, indeed, grow the economy. The problem is the Laffer curve never worked. There was no evidence in practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ETo the second point, to formulate fiscal strategy with regard to the likely impact on present and future generations, we say \u201CExactly.\u201D That is why we have championed the sustainability of superannuation and an aggressive long-term savings plan, similar to Australia\u2019s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ESo what, if those are the three new principles, are the fish-hooks? The first one is section 26G(1)(a) of the Public Finance Act. It says: \u201Creduce total debt to prudent levels so as to provide a buffer \u2026\u201D, and until you have done that, you have to spend less than you take in taxes. Here is the problem: total debt is 85 percent private debt and only 15 percent public debt. So what this provision says is that until we get private debt down, the Government has to keep cutting the fiscal spend. That is simply illogical, and I commend that to the select committee\u2014I am getting the time signal here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022343940b6ade846809442ca350f4d8512\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, time is up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00228cded60293434413ad534ca01348b8ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cded60293434413ad534ca01348b8ba\u0022\u003EJULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe. I rise to speak on the Public Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Bill on behalf of the Green Party. As my colleague Dr Russel Norman said earlier, the Green Party will be supporting this bill. He has outlined a number of measures in the bill that the Green Party strongly agrees with\u2014namely, the requirements for greater transparency of Government. These measures should broaden Government fiscal accountability to the public, and require it to explicitly lay out a long-term plan and what the impact of that long-term plan will be on future generations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWe received a briefing from Treasury on this bill some months ago. It is interesting to note that in the graph given at the briefing you could see quite clearly that during the last Labour Government, from 1999 till 2008, core Crown net debt was steadily decreasing. Although we had our differences with the last Labour Government\u2014of course, we were not a part of that Government, and it could have done some smarter things like introducing a capital gains tax or spending money more intelligently on transport infrastructure\u2014one thing it did well was reduce core Crown net debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EAlthough previous National speakers have said that this bill, as it is about fiscal responsibility, is directly in line with their philosophy, I have to say that what is becoming increasingly clear is that although their rhetoric and slogans are about fiscal responsibility, their actual policies are the exact opposite, and you could see that in the briefing from Treasury. Core Crown net debt is increasing even as essential social services are being cut, and that is fiscally irresponsible. I mean, one can blame the global financial crisis, but the reality is that there are more responsible ways to respond to it that would both have a softer impact on the economy and protect the most vulnerable in our society. When the National Government came to power, for example, it spent billions on tax cuts to high-income earners, and now it is looking to do things like cut financial support for tertiary students. So even though cutting that tertiary support for fourth and fifth year students does not make much of a big difference to Crown debt, it does make a huge difference to New Zealanders who are out there trying to get educated and who are going to be massive contributors to our economy in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThat is an example of a transfer of wealth where this Government has been extremely irresponsible. It is giving money to top income earners even though, as my colleague the Hon David Cunliffe was explaining, there is really no evidence to support the ideology that, for example, cutting tax rates increases economic productivity. In fact, if you look around across the world, the most comprehensive research shows quite clearly that there is no correlation between top tax rates and economic productivity. In fact, by cutting top tax rates, although you will not increase economic productivity, you will increase economic inequality, and that does have a definite impact on economic sustainability in the long term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThere is one thing that I do not think is clear in this bill, and that is how public-private partnerships will be accounted for. I think that is an interesting question, because although the Government says that it is for increasing\u2014and this bill will purportedly increase\u2014the transparency around the Government\u2019s spending, in fact, what we can see right now is that the Government is looking for ways to keep debt off the books. One of the ways it is doing this is by getting us into long-term contracts, or public-private partnerships, for some big infrastructure projects\u2014infrastructure projects like Transmission Gully, which does not have a good business case and will not increase economic productivity, even though the Government says that it would like to increase economic productivity. You would have to be extremely naive or ignorant to believe that duplicating or replacing an existing road link was going to have any impact on economic productivity. So the Government is getting us into long-term financial commitments that will potentially not be recorded as debt, but will in actuality require repayments from future generations of New Zealanders for projects that are white elephants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo we support this bill, but we hope that it will bring greater transparency to some of the Government\u2019s extremely irresponsible infrastructure investments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u00229cfcb1f19e1145719d186bd63194b286\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cfcb1f19e1145719d186bd63194b286\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take the last call on this bill, the Public Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Bill. I enjoyed the contributions from the House today. This bill does enjoy wide support, and for good reason. The Hon Shane Jones, of course, always makes a great contribution in the House, not necessarily because it makes too much sense but because it sounds so good when he talks. He is really the sort of Barack Obama of the New Zealand Parliament in so many ways, is he not? If he is tuning in now, I am sure his chest is puffing broadly within his jacket. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EOn monetary policy, it is rather ironic that last night on TV3 there was a showcase of the stand-off between the Labour Party and the Green Party in some potential coalition of the left and the extreme left, and the three-way play-off for the finance Minister\u2019s role, between David Parker, David Cunliffe, and Russel Norman. I know whom I would put my money on. But the interesting line-up, I thought, was Russel Norman\u2014for him it would be the finance Minister\u2019s job; for David Shearer it definitely would not be\u2014finance; Metiria Turei, social development; Kevin Hague, health\u2014a good guy\u2014Gareth Hughes, energy, which would be interesting; and Catherine Delahunty taking out the prize for education. I am sure that would have had some fairly interesting impacts with viewers at home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThis is exactly why this bill is so important. Monetary policy, good, common-sense policy, is so important to the future financial condition of this country. This bill makes further improvement to the Public Finance Act 1989, and our having learnt many lessons from the global financial crisis and still seeing that playing out, particularly in Europe, it is very much a salient bill. It strengthens fiscal responsibility and encourages greater transparency in three areas: fiscal and monetary policy, impacts of the current policy on future generations, and managing resources efficiently and effectively. This bill enjoys wide support. I certainly am happy to commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002214cc5da32064403d95d0f81b77ee8d6e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Public Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 112\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 7; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000566\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225336043b85a54b45a47334cfcc83eaa8\u0022\u003ECriminal Procedure Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220aeed7de36604de382ffe58324057de1\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022843a22914e6e4615ba3855c5702db005\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022843a22914e6e4615ba3855c5702db005\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Criminal Procedure Legislation Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Justice and Electoral Committee to consider the Criminal Procedure Legislation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThere has been a growing criticism of criminal procedure in New Zealand in the last few decades. It has been described as an impenetrable maze. It has been plagued by excessive delays and unnecessary hearings, and costs have been mounting. The Criminal Procedure Act 2011 and its 14 associated amendment Acts, which passed in October last year, modernised and simplified criminal procedure. In fact, they represented the biggest reform in the modernisation of criminal justice procedure in nearly two generations. These Acts consolidated criminal procedure law and introduced a comprehensive package of reforms to make the criminal justice system more transparent, understandable, and efficient. The reforms are expected to result in over 31,000 fewer court events per year. It is estimated that they will free up about 10,000 court sitting hours each year. The reforms have the potential to take up to 9 weeks off the average time of cases that go to jury trial. The overall reforms have the potential to increase the efficiency of the courts to the value of about $15 million over a 10-year period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EA small number of provisions, including those relating to the name suppression and sentence indication provisions, came into effect in March 2012. However, the majority of the legislation will commence in July 2013. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003ESince the enactment several technical issues have been identified in the Criminal Procedure Act and a small number of other Acts. Some may criticise the Government for needing to introduce this legislation, but, as members will know, the bill giving rise to the Criminal Procedure Act and its associated Acts was complex and well over 500 pages in length. There is a high degree of interrelationship between the relevant legislation. Given the sheer scale and scope of the legislation, some of the minor errors, although regrettable, are unsurprising. Further, the bill was amended at the select committee, and again at the Committee of the whole House, to address concerns raised about aspects of the reforms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003ESome resulting minor cross-referencing and other technical deficiencies have been identified since enactment. The lead-in time from enactment of this legislation to its full commencement has provided for training and systems changes to implement the new criminal procedures, and it is in that context that the need for a number of these technical fixes has been identified. The amendments in this bill are of such a technical nature that they would normally be suitable for inclusion in a Statutes Amendment Bill. However, as the remainder of the 2011 criminal procedure legislation is intended to commence on 1 July 2013, these amendments must be in place by that date. This year\u2019s stand-alone bill is not guaranteed to be enacted by that date, which necessitates this stand-alone bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe amendments fall largely into six categories. First, there are some purely technical drafting and cross-referencing errors in the Act for example, incorrect section references. Second, in a small number of instances the bill enhances certain procedural provisions to ensure that they will be fully implemented and will operate as intended. Examples include the clause 6 amendment relating to the period to file a summons, and the clause 7 amendments relating to the ability of a prosecutor to join charges without the court\u2019s leave. Third, the regulation-making powers in the Criminal Procedure Act are extended so that terminology and procedures in other legislation can be aligned with those of the Criminal Procedure Act by regulations. This will reduce the need for the House to devote its time to unnecessarily considering minor technical amendments. Fourth, there are amendments to the Criminal Procedure Act to give effect to the intent that community magistrates have jurisdiction to receive guilty pleas for certain offences for which they will have sentencing jurisdiction. Fifth, other legislation will be amended to align with the terminology and procedures of the Criminal Procedure Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EFinally, a small number of enactments are amended to replace references to the term \u201Ccrime\u201D, where that is required. Currently, \u201Ccrime\u201D is defined in the Crimes Act 1961 as an offence where an offender is proceeded against by indictment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ddb88904ab24fa59e293ebef3e5e9d8\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, soft on the definition of crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e339fff710a408893e9b333b937d98f\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: Soft on crime, that is right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1096207d24c4e1998fe3fcb6dc22eab\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: No, soft on the definition of crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f25f81ee56d74e7785c6263c4691f30c\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: Soft on crime and the definitions of crime\u2014let us put it that way. The Criminal Procedure Act replaces indictments with charging documents\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022610ab58263384cd4a97f31a5a40320bc\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Careful, Judith is listening from afar.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022add9214f639a44cd9abee504b5efb355\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014she is away\u2014and offences are categorised by penalty level, rather than by how they are proceeded against. Accordingly, upon commencement the definition of a crime will be repealed\u2014the Greens will vote for it, no doubt. Several Acts contain references to a crime\u2014for example, the Crimes Act 1961. It is an offence without lawful authority or excuse to have one\u2019s face covered or disguised, with intent to commit a crime. The bill makes a small number of amendments to a few Acts to replace the term \u201Ccrime\u201D with a reference to the most appropriate offence type in the context of each Act. In the case of a person having their face covered or being disguised, the reference to a crime is replaced with a reference to an imprisonable offence. This will align with a change already made to the burglary offence in the criminal procedure reforms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThis bill is not contentious. It is a technical, non-controversial piece of legislation. It will clarify and give full effect to legislation that this House has already approved. It will ensure that the largest criminal procedure reforms in 50 years can be implemented effectively and coherently and that the benefits predicted are fully realised. The amendments will enhance operational efficiency. This legislation will provide greater clarity for defence counsel, prosecutors, and the judiciary, who will be required to apply the legislation. On that basis, I expect the bill will receive wide support from all parties, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdf53d6294ff4b34a96df2f5a178eb4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdf53d6294ff4b34a96df2f5a178eb4a\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Associate Minister of Justice consulted the Opposition about the Criminal Procedure Legislation Bill and we indicated, on the basis of his undertaking that it would contain only technical amendments in the nature of a statutes amendment - type provision, that we would support the legislation, and we will do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EMay I just take this opportunity to talk a little bit about the history of the legislation to which this amendment bill relates, because that is an approach to criminal justice that we have attempted to show in good faith in this Parliament and in the last Parliament also. The Minister referred to the history of the substantive legislation, the Criminal Procedure Act, and he made reference to the amendments that had been made in the select committee\u2014he will remember those well because he chaired that select committee\u2014but also in the Committee of the whole House. It is at the Committee of the whole House that I think the House needs to just remind itself of what was done with this legislation, because I think there are some lessons, and if Government members want to learn them, they can, so that we can avoid this sort of thing happening again and again, where we have to come back and repair legislation that was passed within only the last 12 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe history that I refer to is this. The original legislation was a big reform to criminal procedure. I am a little unsure of the grandiose claim that it is the largest reform to criminal procedure in 50 years, but I do not blame the Minister for making that claim\u2014I see he was reading his notes and I have heard his predecessors make that claim. It certainly was, though, a major reform, and members of the Opposition agreed in principle that we could do better in terms of the processes of our criminal courts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EWhere we were concerned was with the very sweeping nature of the original substantive reform proposals. In particular, we were worried about the restrictions on the right to trial by jury, and also to alterations to the presumption of innocence where, essentially, the original legislation would have required the defence to cooperate with the prosecution in a way that would offend that principle. I think it is instructive to remember that the Law Society was on board with those concerns, as was much of the legal profession and many of the civil rights groups, and eventually the opposition to the measure, because of those particular proposals, grew so great that the Minister of Justice at the time, Simon Power, lost his majority in the House as to the measure progressing. That was because the ACT Party in particular, which was better represented in the previous Parliament\u2014at least as far as numbers are concerned\u2014withdrew its support for the legislation. It was concerned about the jury trial and presumption of innocence erosions in particular. I want to pay tribute to Rodney Hide for the way in which he dealt with the matter. Once he realised the extent of the concerns and the erosion of those fundamental liberties that the original bill would represent, he did withdraw that party\u2019s support and that did force the Minister to the negotiating table. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EAs a result of that negotiation, the changes that were mentioned by the Associate Minister of Justice were made in the Committee of the whole House. They followed on from some changes in the select committee process as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EBut if we had had a process from the beginning where the Government had been willing to sit down and say: \u201CLook, this is the aim here. We want to reform criminal procedure. The current procedures are clumsy and we think we can do better.\u201D, we would have cooperated. We would have talked about the principles, we could have avoided the excesses of the original bill, the Minister would not have lost his majority midway through the process, and we probably would not be in the position that we are in now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI am not saying this because I like to get up and say: \u201CI told you so.\u201D I am saying it because I think that if we do want to achieve some certainty in justice policy generally, and in criminal justice policy in particular, then we ought to try to treat this legislation as a bit of a learning exercise. It was not as if this was not foreseeable. I want to read out to the House what the president of the Law Society said to the Justice and Electoral Committee, when the Associate Minister of Justice was its chair, at the time it was considering the substantive legislation. He said, first: \u201CCross-party agreement is needed on criminal justice instead of the continued politicisation of a matter that requires coherent cross-party agreement.\u201D He went on to predict that the bill as introduced would last only around a year before Parliament would be required to review it again. So it was critical, in his view, that we give careful consideration to a very important piece of legislation and actually provide certainty going forward. That is pretty instructive when you think about the time that amending legislation of this nature requires to be devoted to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThis is not a matter where there is particularly significant political disagreement. Speeding up the criminal process while maintaining basic human rights is not something that I think is taken issue with across the House, but because the Minister of Justice at the time was just determined to pursue his agenda, and did so until the very last moment, when he lost political support, we are now in the position where the hasty amendments that had to be made as a result are now having to be repaired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIf we are trying to learn some lessons from this, then we should also think about another thing that the president of the Law Society said at the time that he made his submission, and that is that we have got this process round the wrong way. We are dealing with procedure, which sits in the middle of any sort of ideal reform process, not at the start. There are two substantive Acts of Parliament, the Crimes Act 1961 and the Summary Proceedings Act 1957, that are ancient. They have been amended many times. They need re-enactment not only because they are a minefield to try to read and construe but because they are out of date with contemporary social conditions. Anyone would think that if a criminal law reform project were being pursued in good faith, if it were to live up to the claim to be the greatest reform for 50 years, a Government might actually start with the substantive legislation rather than leaving Acts that are over 60 years or 70 years in vintage on the book without reform. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThey might even think about looking at the drivers of crime on a non-partisan basis. That was an invitation that my colleague and friend Lianne Dalziel made to the previous Minister of Justice, particularly in respect of alcohol law reform, to no avail. She received no positive response to that, and if we want to consider the whirlwind that is being reaped as a result of that, we need look only as far as the botched alcohol law reform exercise that this Parliament is scheduled to complete in the next 4 sitting days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EBut, as I said, the Law Society said this: start with the drivers of crime, deal with the substantive statute, and then you might be able to get coherently and rationally to criminal procedure issues. You might even then look at the evidence rules and the other rules of court that are applied. But for some reason we had this process start right in the middle on the procedural points. We had, as I described earlier, the political fiasco that resulted when the Minister was not able to push through the erosion of fundamental rights that he wanted to achieve, and the resulting amendments, which were not made in a coherent fashion, which bring us back to the position that we are in tonight where we are having to do a rushed fix-up job in Parliament now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThis approach is not limited in the justice field to criminal procedure. I mentioned alcohol law reform. I could talk about legal services and legal aid, where the Opposition has always accepted that efficiencies and rationalisation should be made not on the basis of fiat, not on the basis of the Minister of Justice telling the profession and consumers of legal services that she knows best, but actually through sitting down and negotiating changes. We had the Family Court reform legislation read a first time today, and that is another classic example of a position where the family law practitioners came up with efficiencies and a plan to reduce costs in the Family Court. They were simply ignored by the Minister, who thought and still thinks that she knows better because she has the advice from the officials that she seems determined to bulldoze through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThis is not a coherent way to run justice policy, and if the Government continues this way, we will simply be back here again dealing with these fix-up jobs ad infinitum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022b53ff8a764584df88b737f931036033b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b53ff8a764584df88b737f931036033b\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member who has just resumed his seat, Charles Chauvel, for that historical discourse and, in particular, for his confirmation that the Labour Party will be supporting this bill, the Criminal Procedure Legislation Bill. I also thank the Associate Minister of Justice for his very comprehensive overview of the purposes of the legislation. I have to say that I think he has left one or two of his colleagues who will be speaking later in this debate wondering just how much material is left for a fresh and exciting angle, but I am sure that they will rise to the challenge when the moment comes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EMy friend and former colleague Paul Quinn once memorably thundered in this House: \u201CJustice denied is justice not done.\u201D Well, I have to say that it is very hard to argue with the logic of that, but I think the expression he was looking for was: \u201CJustice delayed is justice denied.\u201D And, of course, that wonderful \u201CQuinnism\u201D, which I and so many of us still wish we could occasionally enjoy, sprang to mind tonight as I was looking at the purposes of this bill, because it is about ensuring the timely delivery of justice and, all jokes aside, we know that that is a very important, vital feature of an effective and fair justice system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThere are many expected benefits to this particular measure, and, therefore, I am pleased, as the chair of the Justice and Electoral Committee, to say that even though we have a very busy agenda over the next few months, we will do our best to work through this as expeditiously as possible. I do take on board the point the Minister has made, which is that although this might ordinarily be more appropriately dealt with through a Statutes Amendment Bill, in fact, there is a pressing need to get on with it. We will be doing our level best to ensure that that is possible, and I do hope that the cooperative spirit that we have had already indicated from Labour members will be indicated by others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo at this point I just want to note that the changes in this bill do form another important part of the very significant pattern of justice initiatives that this busy National-led Government has been working on. We are determined to improve the criminal justice system. In particular, we have been working very firmly to put victims at the heart of the process, and their families, to ensure that they get a much better deal under our judicial system. These are all important components of it. I look forward to working on the bill. I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b290948515494b2fba5fa9dbb1574934\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b290948515494b2fba5fa9dbb1574934\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E My colleague Charles Chauvel has highlighted, I think, one of the primary lessons that we need to learn from the fact that this legislation, the Criminal Procedure Legislation Bill, is in front of the House so soon after the original legislation was passed. If we are to avoid bringing forward amending legislation such as this to correct what could have been anticipated at the time, and if we are also to avoid the now ubiquitous unintended consequences of legislation once passed, then we could do much by adopting a much more collaborative approach around these issues. I think that is what the Law Society was asking of us, saying that a cross-party agreement really is needed on criminal justice. Instead of politicising issues, we need to be looking for coherent policy where we can achieve that. I think that that is actually the approach that we have adopted on this side of the House, and both in Government and in Opposition. I just want to reflect a little on where we have missed the opportunity of doing so, because a cross-party accord on these matters has a lot to commend it, but it is, actually, quite challenging, I think, in the environment that we find ourselves in when we are dealing with controversial issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ETaking it back a step, when I was the Minister of Commerce I consulted with the Opposition spokesperson on commerce, who just happened to be the former Minister of Justice, the Hon Simon Power. We worked together on a relatively collaboratively basis on issues that we knew were going to transcend electoral cycles, and we felt that it was important that we were able to get as much cross-party accord on those issues as we possibly could. I think, on commerce issues, everyone would agree that they were relatively non-controversial, that they were not the sort of things that excited passions, and that people did not come down to the House and table-thump and do that sort of emotional, attention-seeking behaviour that we sometimes see in this House\u2014I cannot imagine why. But when I became the chair of the select committee, I realised that there was a whole different relationship that you have to have with a Minister when you are an Opposition spokesperson and the chair of the select committee. It is quite a different relationship. I actually learnt a lot from having that role. I think maybe it was just the dynamics of having that role in that particular relationship on a relatively non-controversial area such as commerce and where, I think everyone would agree, there was a relatively seamless transition from one Government to the other, from one Minister to the other, and, indeed, from one select committee to the other. I think that we all respected each other\u2019s roles, and were able to gain a lot from that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWe do not do that in the Justice and Electoral Committee. I think the reason that we do not do that in the Justice and Electoral Committee is that there are controversial elements that sit around things relating to criminal procedure\u2014not so much the procedure but, of course, the \u201Ctough on crime\u201D approach that one has to address as a politician, as constituents, obviously, are wanting to hear from Governments what they are going to do to reduce crime. But I also think that this has been a really salutary lesson to all of us. If we do not actually find a way of achieving that kind of cross-party consensus on these kinds of issues, then we do end up in a situation where we have to take up the time of the House and introduce amending legislation such as this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWhat I found interesting about this particular piece of legislation is that it could have been included within a Statutes Amendment Bill, such is its lack of controversy. It is that straightforward that we could have put it in a Statutes Amendment Bill. But the reason that it is not in a Statutes Amendment Bill is that there is no guarantee that the Statutes Amendment Bill would be enacted by the date that it is required to be enacted by in order for this legislation to come into effect. Well, I think we really do have to take stock of what that actually means. It means that we have missed a golden opportunity to sit down together and work collaboratively to find a solution to the problem, rather than having to bring about individual legislation. I think that what we have ended up with is that sometimes we end up in this House debating legislation and then voting to support legislation because of the impact that we think our opposition to it would have, rather than having a constructive debate about what the actual legislation should be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI just do want to mention the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Act, which is in place at the moment. When we passed that legislation, I believe that we voted for it on our side of the House in good faith. I believe, now, that it is being implemented in a completely inappropriate manner. It is completely out of line. We are no longer in an emergency response situation. We no longer need urgent powers. It is 2 years since the first earthquake, and nothing really major is happening in terms of what is happening in Christchurch. But we voted for that legislation because we were placed, I believe, under considerable pressure, both within the House and outside the House, in order to support the Government\u2019s stated intention of facilitating the recovery. Everyone wants to facilitate the recovery in Christchurch, but what we have ended up with is legislation that is now being used to browbeat people into accepting terms and conditions for the enforced sale of their properties, which they really, really have no alternative but to accept. That is unacceptable. So we have ended up in almost a breach of human rights situation, which we would have ended up in if we had accepted the original legislation that this bill is predicated on, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI just think that sometimes we need to have, as a House, the capacity to step back, take stock. The Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Act was legislation that was rammed through this House under urgency. I think that if we do that and the legislation has that kind of impact or potential impact beyond an emergency situation, I believe we have to, as a matter of urgent responsibility, have a review period so that we can decide as a Parliament whether we reinstate the legislation after a particular period of time. I am deeply unhappy that that legislation sits there for 5 years without any opportunity to review the impact of what are very Draconian powers. At least in this instance the Government has taken the initiative to amend the legislation ahead of its taking effect. That is the appropriate thing to do. But I believe that the House should take warning from what we have had to confront with this particular legislation and think of it in the context of other legislation, where it could actually be used in a much more appropriate manner. On that basis, we are perfectly happy to support this to the select committee and we look forward to its early passage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022daac8700f2be47f4916af2ef3d73c78b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022daac8700f2be47f4916af2ef3d73c78b\u0022\u003EJULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak on the Criminal Procedure Legislation Bill. Because this is a very non-controversial bill that makes a number of technical amendments and minor fixes, we have no problem supporting this legislation at its first reading. But I would like to, in this speech, raise two concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWhen the initial Criminal Procedure (Reform and Modernisation) Bill came up in the last term of Parliament, the Green Party had serious concerns about that bill, in particular because it reduced access to jury trials, in our view. What we have seen, I think, in the justice area from this Government is a pattern of restricting access to justice. Some of that was through the changes to the Family Court and the changes to legal aid. There is a definite pattern on the part of this Government to trade off core principles like fairness for cost cutting or efficiency. It is the Green Party\u2019s view that it is simply not possible to trade off a core principle of democracy\u2014fairness, access to justice\u2014for the sake of efficiency. It is simply not possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESecondly, and which was highlighted by previous speakers, in particular Charles Chauvel, is the poor process that has been adopted by this Government time and time again with legislation. What we have here is a bill that needs to be passed quite quickly in order to make a large number of technical fixes. Of course, it is quite possible that we would not be in the position of having to take up the time of the House on something so uncontroversial and non-substantive if there had been a good process adopted in the beginning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EOf course, that is something that we have seen time and time again. One thing that has been great this year is we have not seen as much urgency as was applied in the last term of Government. But this idea that somehow you can take a heavy-handed, single-minded approach\u2014a sort of \u201Cour way or the highway; we are going to rush in and impose our view and not take the time to consult properly and to work collaboratively with members across the House\u201D approach\u2014actually does not save time. It does not result in better outcomes. It results in the time of the House being taken up for non-substantive legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThose would be the two concerns that I would like to highlight in speaking to this bill. The Green Party does not have any objection to the technical fixes, but we are certainly concerned about the pattern of poor law-making and of restricting access to justice that we consistently see from this National Government. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3aff975ad604dc78219a830194bfbb2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3aff975ad604dc78219a830194bfbb2\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a huge pleasure to take a brief call on this, the Criminal Procedure Legislation Bill. I want to acknowledge the support from across the House on this bill. It was Earl Warren who said that it is \u201Cthe spirit and not the form of law that keeps justice alive.\u201D Although I would not want to gainsay the eminent jurist, I believe we cannot dismiss form of law in such a cavalier fashion. Justice must be delivered in an efficient and a timely manner. These integrated sets of reforms will address significant problems with current criminal procedure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003ECriticisms of criminal procedure over the past 20 years can be summarised under four broad headings. The first of these is excessive delay. For example, the median time to dispose of a High Court jury trial is around 16 months\u2014an increase of approximately 5 months in the past 5 years. Another problem is excessive complexity. The main laws for criminal procedure, the Summary Proceedings Act 1957 and Parts 12 and 13 of the Crimes Act 1961, have been amended numerous times over 50 years, resulting, as the Associate Minister of Justice said, in an impenetrable maze for most non-lawyers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EOutdated legislative framework is another problem. The current provisions were drafted on the assumption of a paper-based system, creating barriers to the use of modern technology. Another problem, of course, is excessive cost. It is estimated that there are approximately 43,000 unnecessary court appearances a year in the criminal jurisdiction, and more than two-thirds of court cases that reach a defended hearing fail to proceed on the day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EBroadly speaking, these changes will lead to an estimated 37,000 fewer court events, 200 to 450 fewer jury trials, a 6 to 9-week reduction in the average time to complete a jury trial, and potentially millions of dollars of savings. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d70d7d41dd3d4553bb5365e8cace404a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d70d7d41dd3d4553bb5365e8cace404a\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First supports the Criminal Procedure Legislation Bill. It is not one of those earth-shaking pieces of legislation that will mark the 50th Parliament, nor is it a bill that the Associate Minister of Justice will be remembered for, and nor is it a bill that the National Government will be hanging its reputation on. Indeed, it is hanging itself perfectly well in a number of other ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe nature of the amendments this bill makes to various Acts is largely technical, arising from the passing of the Criminal Procedure Act 2011. The amendments fall into four categories: firstly, a number of cross-referencing and other minor technical fixes, which form the bulk of the bill and are straightforward; secondly, amendments to ensure the procedures and processes under the 2011 Act can be fully implemented to operate as intended, which also appear to me to be perfectly straightforward; and, thirdly, there are references to crime in several statutes that need to be amended, due to the repeal of the definition of \u201Ccrime\u201D in the Crimes Act 1961. Examples are clause 4, which amends section 5 of the Criminal Procedure Act 2011, and concerns interpretation. The amendment adds a definition of \u201Cimprisonable offence\u201D. Clause 32 amends section 11 of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975, which concerns the theft of controlled drugs. The amendments there replace \u201Ccrime\u201D with \u201Coffence\u201D. Clause 34, which amends section 28 of the Summary Offences Act 1981, concerns being found in a public place preparing to commit a crime. The amendments again replace \u201Ccrime\u201D with \u201Cimprisonable offence\u201D. So it is all pretty simple, straightforward stuff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe fourth category of amendments gives community magistrates jurisdiction to receive guilty pleas for certain category 2 offences, being those in respect of which community magistrates have sentencing jurisdiction. The opportunity is also taken to clarify with greater specificity other aspects of community magistrates\u2019 jurisdiction. Those are also sensible amendments. And there are powers, as we have heard, to use expanded regulating powers for all of these sorts of purposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe only substantial change that I can see appears to be in clause 21, which amends section 8 of the Crimes Act 1961. This concerns jurisdiction in respect of crimes on ships or aircraft beyond New Zealand. The amendments replace section 8(2) with two provisions. The first provides that if a person commits a criminal act on a New Zealand ship or aircraft to which section 8 applies, and that act or omission would, if it occurred within New Zealand, be an offence punishable by imprisonment for life or by 2 years\u2019 imprisonment or more, then the person is liable on conviction as if the act or omission occurred in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI have no problem with that, but the second provision provides that if any proceedings are taken against a foreign citizen by virtue of jurisdiction conferred by section 8, in relation to a crime on a New Zealand ship or aircraft, it is a defence to prove that the act or omission would not have been an offence under the law of the country of which the person charged was a national or citizen at the time of the act or omission, if it had occurred in that country. There is no explanation given as to why this apparently new defence is to be allowed. Perhaps the Minister could advise us about that, because as far as I could see it would simply mean that a New Zealand citizen committing a crime under New Zealand law on a New Zealand ship or aircraft would be liable for prosecution, but a foreign citizen committing the same crime would have a complete defence if he or she could show that it is not a crime under his or her country\u2019s law. Why would that defence be allowed for an offence on a New Zealand ship or aircraft? It seems to me to be inappropriate for New Zealand citizens and foreign citizens on New Zealand ships and aircraft to be treated so differently. Presumably there is a good reason, but I would like to hear an explanation of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EWith that reservation New Zealand First will support the bill, which, as I have already said, is largely technical in nature and simply makes sensible and practical changes in relation to the operation of the Criminal Procedure Act 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u0022cfec924e796f4f16baddcd9bb0400ff7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cfec924e796f4f16baddcd9bb0400ff7\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to take a call on the Criminal Procedure Legislation Bill tonight. I am going to take just a very brief call. Obviously, this bill has got the support of all the parties in the House. There are very straightforward amendments in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EWe have had Charles Chauvel speak about the history. We have had people talk about criticisms of the current criminal procedures. We have discussed tonight the four categories of the amendments. We have also discussed the main provisions in the bill. This is a very simple and straightforward bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker, Denis O\u2019Rourke, talked about maritime issues, and we will debate those in the Justice and Electoral Committee, I am sure. And I am sure we will be inundated with hundreds of submissions on that point you have just raised. The bill will come back to the select committee, we will have a discussion around it, and I am sure we will get that sorted out for you and get some clarification for you around those issues you raised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EIt is my pleasure to support this bill in the House tonight. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00224eb83a58e810423da2e12c2f9ef70b27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224eb83a58e810423da2e12c2f9ef70b27\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E As previous Labour speakers have indicated, we will be supporting this piece of legislation, the Criminal Procedure Legislation Bill. It is a small, technical bill. It is not controversial. It is not contentious. It does remedy technical deficiencies in the Criminal Procedure (Reform and Modernisation) Bill, which went through just last year. I tend to agree with the Minister who introduced it, Chester Borrows. We are not going to make a big deal about those deficiencies. It was a substantial bill. It was 520 pages. Sometimes Governments get those things wrong, or draftspeople get those things wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EBut what I want to say is that this is also a bill that does not address some of the huge problems that we are seeing in criminal justice procedure at the present time. This bill, for example, does nothing to remedy the disastrous situation in Auckland with the new system of processing Family Court cases. That system is a system that lawyers and judges alike have said is an absolute shambles. The quote in the media was that affidavits were going missing, judges were not being given complete files, there were delays of several months in hearing dates, sealed orders were not being sent, and emails and voice messages were going unanswered. That\u2014as Mr Borrows knows well because he was the Minister in charge of that failed experiment\u2014has proven to be an absolute disaster. There is nothing in this bill that remedies that mess, which is a mess of the Minister\u2019s and the Government\u2019s own making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ESadly, there is nothing in this bill that remedies another serious problem that the Minister alluded to before about justice delayed being justice denied. The Minister will know that there is a backlog of 900 jury court cases in Auckland\u2014900. I want to know from the Minister when he is going to bring in a piece of substantive legislation, or put the resources in, or make the changes necessary to address that other disaster in Auckland. So we have got a disaster in the Family Court system where procedures simply are not working, because the Government has botched it. We have got a disaster in a growing backlog of jury cases in Auckland, where we are denying justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWe had a near-disaster caused by the Government introducing legal aid legislation that would have stripped the system completely of equity. Because the other way of denying justice is not simply delaying it, Minister; it is making justice inaccessible to people because of a user-pays system. The Minister knows that the threshold level for income that the Government was intending to introduce would have stripped access to justice from a whole cross-section of New Zealanders. New Zealanders, regardless of whether they are rich or poor, are entitled to have access to the justice system. What sort of justice system is it that is based on ability to pay? Sadly, in an earlier bill today we saw more of that coming in, with a proposed $1,000 fee for people to have access to family dispute resolution processes. That access used to be free. It will not be free now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ESo we have this little piece of legislation, it does make technical amendments, but it leaves untouched the disaster that is happening across our justice system in each of the four areas that I have just talked about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI want to pick up some of the points that Lianne Dalziel made, because I thought they were well made, and one is that in a proper Parliament justice issues should be handled, wherever possible, in a bipartisan way. They should be evidence-driven. They should be well researched. Changes being made should be properly trialled. But, sadly, once again, earlier this afternoon we saw a piece of legislation that did none of those things\u2014that did none of those things. I think the Law Society\u2014the President of the Law Society, Jonathan Temm\u2014was right in saying it is incumbent upon Parliament to pick up these issues and work to try to find a resolution to problems that are afflicting our justice system, rather than being dog whistle, as too much of the legislation in this Parliament has been. It has not been actually about improving the justice system. It has been about trying to scratch an electoral itch, appealing to a concern in the community, and that is inherently dishonest, because what the Government is doing is pretending to implement a solution, quite cynically, that it knows will not be a solution to the problem, at all. That leaves the safety and the well-being of New Zealanders at risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe other part of what the Government has done wrong is that too often it has rushed stuff through. I cannot say that about the original criminal procedure legislation. That actually had its origins under Labour in 2007, in the simplification project. It was a good concept. We needed to make the procedure more efficient. We needed to make it more effective. We worked on that. The legislation was ultimately carried through by the National Government, but, even then, it brought in things that were inherently controversial and unacceptable. We all wanted a more efficient system, but too much, in terms of longstanding human rights, was under threat in the original criminal procedure legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI have got to pay tribute to Charles Chauvel and what the Labour Opposition did in bringing in a minority report that was persuasive to other members of the Opposition, but also persuasive to the Government\u2019s support parties, the M\u0101ori Party and the ACT Party. The Government had to reverse some of the controversial measures that it was putting up there. It had to bring back the threshold for a jury trial, for example, from the 3 years that it was proposing, to 2 years. It had to reverse its proposal that a person could be tried in their absence. God, since the Magna Carta that has not been allowed anywhere else in the world, and this Government was trying to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ESo a lot of mistakes have been made by the National Government, yet the Labour Party stands ready as a constructive party of opposition not only to exercise proper scrutiny over what the Government is doing but also prepared to assist and to help to improve the legislation, as we did with that Criminal Procedure Act. Without the Labour Party and the stand that Labour took, it would not have been improved in the way that it was. So we certainly lifted the Government\u2019s game in that respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe amendments that we are looking at in this bill are essentially technical. It provides cross-referencing and other minor, technical fixes. It ensures that processes and procedures that are necessary to implement the Criminal Procedure Act 2011 are actually in place. It deals with the repeal of the definition of crime in the Crimes Act, and makes consequential amendments there. It gives effect to changes in the jurisdiction of community magistrates. There is nothing in this bill that we are opposed to inherently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI want to use this bill as an example that where a Government brings in a piece of legislation that does the right thing, we are not going to oppose for the sake of opposing. But the Government itself needs to show the same sort of flexibility. It is sad that we are going to be looking at an Alcohol Reform Bill in 2 days\u2019 time where National members of Parliament will be forced to vote against their own preference and their own best instincts, because they are being forced to toe the party line. A little thing like having proper regulation for ready-to-drinks is something that is cross-partisan. I have talked to my colleagues across the other side of the House, and they think it is necessary, but they are being prevented from voting for it, and that is wrong. I mention that because it is an example of a Government that is ideologically driven, driven by the power of vested interest groups, and does not take a sufficiently bipartisan approach to get the best out of this House to get the best legislation for New Zealand. Labour will be supporting this piece of legislation because it does the right thing. It opposed the legislation earlier today because it was ill-thought-out, half-baked, and bound to be a disaster in terms of its implementation, and we have a requirement on us to expose the deficiencies of the Government in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThis bill will pass. It will pass with our cooperation. But the lesson that the National Government should learn is to make sure its legislation is evidence-driven, make sure it is not driven by the power of vested interests, make sure it is not simply ideological, and make sure, most of all, that it is not dog whistle. Far too much of the legislation in the justice area before Parliament has been all of those things, and that will be the legacy of this Government when it goes in a couple of years\u2019 time. It will be a large percentage of justice legislation that changes nothing and does nothing. This bill, however, is technical. It is non-controversial. We will be supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u00222a3a48b578ee485eba6b73ba91633251\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a3a48b578ee485eba6b73ba91633251\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the Criminal Procedure Legislation Bill. The last speaker, the Hon Mr Phil Goff, ended his speech with the words \u201Cchanges nothing\u201D and \u201Cdoes nothing\u201D. He talked about us being a shambles, and said this was rushed legislation. Well, I just need to remind him that the crime rate in New Zealand is at a 30-year low. You will not hear him say that. There has been an average 15 percent reduction across all crime over recent years, since we have come into office. Those sorts of statistics he does not choose to share and to talk about. But the general public have confidence now because they are seeing that there is safety, for the concerns that they have had in our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe issue around the Criminal Procedure Legislation Bill is dealing with some of the problems that many stakeholders have been concerned about over a number of years\u2014in fact, over 20 years. They have summarised them in a number of ways\u2014people have talked about them, and we are just reasserting them\u2014in the sense that there have been excessive delays. National believes\u2014and it was talked about\u2014that justice delayed is justice denied, and this bill will ensure that timely justice is delivered for victims, witnesses, defendants, and the community. I know that those are some of the issues that we were wanting to put forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EExcessive complexity\u2014for example, the main laws for criminal procedures, the Summary Proceedings Act 1957 and Parts 12 and 13 of the Crimes Act 1961, have been amended numerous times over 50 years, resulting in a very difficult system for non-lawyers to proceed with. The proposals build on the changes already under way to improve the criminal justice system, including the removal of oral depositions hearings, legal aid reforms, victims of crime initiatives, and the roll-out of audiovisual links between courts and prisons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe other challenge that is in the system at present is the outdated legislative framework. For example, the current provisions were drafted on the assumption of a paper-based system, creating barriers to the use of modern technology. Over the last 10 to 20 years the law relating to criminal procedures has attracted increasing criticism. The principle statutes governing criminal procedures are out of date and inflexible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EExcessive costs\u2014for example, it is estimated that there are approximately 43,000 unnecessary court appearances a year in the criminal jurisdiction, and more than two-thirds of those cases that reach a defended hearing fail to proceed on the day. We cannot continue to mask the delays and inefficiencies in criminal procedures by simply building more courthouses and appointing more judges. Reforming criminal procedure makes the justice system more responsive to the needs of victims and witnesses. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00227b9dda9b7dc7494699741e992324af89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b9dda9b7dc7494699741e992324af89\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise and take a call on the Criminal Procedure Legislation Bill. This, as my colleagues have pointed out, is a technical bill. I am not quite sure what bill the last speaker, Alfred Ngaro, was referring to, because I do not see a reference to the reduction in the number of prisons and the various other things he talked about. That is not provided for in this legislation. Indeed, this Government is going in the opposite direction and building big prisons\u2014very big ones\u2014for example, the Wiri Prison. The Government may have closed down a couple of older prisons but the prison population under this Government looks like it has a very healthy future ahead of it, the way it is going. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis bill is very technical, as I said before. It does simple things like replace references to the word \u201Ccrime\u201D with the word \u201Coffence\u201D, because we now have offences under legislation and we do not have just crimes. That provides for some sort of flexibility. It also clarifies what an imprisonable offence is for a body corporate. This is potentially very important. If I am fortunate enough to have my Crimes (Corporate Manslaughter) Amendment Bill drawn from the ballot this week or at some point in the future\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250e87ceb37ed4e899efbb35c5e62a657\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: A very well-drafted bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c7aff9e7e284a478ee7dbaf4ab7006d\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: A well-drafted bill. A well-crafted bill, I would describe it as\u2014it goes beyond just drafting. It has been crafted. If, indeed, this Government responds seriously, as it should, to the royal commission\u2019s report on Pike River and itself introduces a corporate manslaughter bill, then this legislation here, when it describes an imprisonable offence and describes what it is for a body corporate, will make sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe bill goes on to clarify the requirements for charging documents, which, as I understand it, used to be called informations. But for charging documents it has actually set out crimes or offences that are being pursued, particularly in relation to private prosecutions brought by an individual as opposed to private prosecutions brought by a body corporate, which at least, of course, can happen now under the Health and Safety in Employment Act because of the changes the previous Labour Government made. Where the Department of Labour declines to prosecute, then either an individual or a union can take that prosecution. This technical legislation will assist that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt corrects a number of numbering errors in various pieces of criminal justice legislation. It clarifies the jurisdiction in relation to offences on aircraft and ships, extending the jurisdiction but providing the defence that if you are a citizen of another nation and the offence is committed in that airspace or shipping space, then you can have a defence if the New Zealand offence is not an offence in that jurisdiction. So it is very helpful in that regard. One might think that these are things that ought to have been thought about in the previous legislation, which this covers, were it more carefully drafted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis bill does highlight the need, when we are considering criminal justice legislation in particular, that we do get it right. If there is one thing that represents the high-water mark of what this House does in terms of taking away a citizen\u2019s liberty, in terms of giving judges in the criminal justice system the power to incarcerate, to punish, and to penalise\u2014it is incumbent on this House performing those tasks and passing that sort of legislation to get it right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ETwo things are required in that regard. One is that we take the proper amount of time to do that. Legislation that punishes, legislation that imposes penalties\u2014whether it imposes fines or incarcerates\u2014must be given the proper consideration and time by all parties and by all members, both in this House and in the select committee process. The House must give due consideration to the submissions it receives from organisations and from citizens, whether it is the New Zealand Law Society or whether it is those with a criminal record, whom we hear from from time to time. This House must give proper consideration to what those interested parties have to say when it comes to this sort of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E The second thing that it draws attention to is the need, at least in relation to criminal justice legislation, for a greater degree of bipartisanship\u2014or multipartisanship. When we are discharging our responsibilities as parliamentarians and passing laws that have what can be described only as the most deleterious effects on citizens\u2014that is to say, effects that are about imprisoning and that are about depriving people of liberty, admittedly under due process\u2014that is something that there ought to be a high degree of collaboration on between parties in this House. That sort of legislation will come under intense scrutiny by the judiciary, as it should, and the judiciary will always be looking for the true and proper intent of Parliament, and will be wanting to know that Parliament has taken that sort of legislation seriously. When it comes to passing sentence, it is one thing to secure conviction under legislation that sets out offences, but when it comes to passing sentence and putting citizens through the criminal justice procedures, then the judiciary needs to know that Parliament has given proper and due consideration, taken it seriously, and understood the magnitude of what Parliament is doing, what we are demanding of the judiciary, and what we are subjecting citizens to. It is very important that we get that stuff right, and we can do that properly and seriously only if we are working in a more collaborative approach to do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThere should not be the sort of party-political division that there has been in more recent years over this sort of stuff. We certainly do not want to see the types of knee-jerk reactions that we have often seen to issues that have been raised, usually in the community. Yes, there will be individual court cases\u2014criminal cases\u2014that will give rise to concern. That is a normal part of democracy. But it should not lead this House to respond piecemeal and in a knee-jerk way to those particular concerns, as we have seen, for example, in the Juries (Jury Service and Protection of Particulars of Jury List Information) Amendment Bill. It deals with jury lists because in one case, on one occasion, a defendant saw or got access to the details of a jury list and made personal contact. We should not be seeing knee-jerk reactions to that sort of instance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo it would be desirable if, as we have seen a greater degree of cooperation over this sort of correcting legislation\u2014no pun intended\u2014we could demonstrate that we are capable of working sensibly and cooperatively together to make sure that our criminal justice statutes are the best we can possibly do, and are a model for all other legislation, not just from this House but across Parliaments in the Commonwealth generally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe message is that we should never take criminal justice lightly, because it is serious legislation and it has serious impacts on our citizens. When we come to deal with it, as we do in this legislation, and as we correct things that have been legislated for incorrectly\u2014perhaps even imperceptibly\u2014in the past, we should be bold enough and big enough to correct those mistakes, and to do so in a cooperative spirit. But we should learn the lesson that we can avoid having to do this kind of reworking if we actually get it right in the first place. We will get it right when we give ourselves enough time, give it due consideration, and work properly together in a proper process of collaboration and harmony that is fitting not only for the legislation but also for the season as well. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u00221d7e7981b6ab495f9731afb88cc5ab2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d7e7981b6ab495f9731afb88cc5ab2f\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take the last call on this Criminal Procedure Legislation Bill. I largely agree with the last speaker, Andrew Little, and I think it is fair to say that there is fairly broad support for this technical\u2014but very necessary, none the less\u2014piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EWhen we look at the whole criminal justice pipeline, if you like, there is a bottleneck, a very small junction, when it comes to the delivery of that justice, and the measures within this bill largely go towards addressing that. As a former police officer and detective, having been in front of courts and taking victims through what is a very, very arduous process, with stays of proceedings and difficulties with witnesses getting into court and their recall, I can say that the drawn-out nature of the process is often causing added hurt and delaying healing. It is a convoluted and diluted justice system, in many ways, in the eyes of those who are subjected to it, generally through no fault of their own. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E One of the key areas in this bill is about addressing the justice delayed, justice denied notion. The key area, really, is about amending an Act that goes back some 60 years, that has its origin some 60 years ago, and that has been subject to many ad hoc additions, reforms, and so forth. Arguably, a lot of what we do in this criminal justice space could fit into that category. It is somewhat a balloon that is full, and when squeezed it bulges in different directions. It must be addressed in a pragmatic fashion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThis bill is very much in line with a number of the other changes that this Government has been committed to right across the criminal justice spectrum that go right through to the way in which our police are engaging with our communities and making them safer places, and their focus on prevention. It goes to a lot of the changes that have been very much a part of the last few years in terms of the criminal justice system, how it operates, its expediency, and its focus on victims, right through to the other side to where we deal with matters around corrections. It is all about getting the balance right across that spectrum. Right at the centre of it is very much what this bill is about\u2014very technical but very necessary. Certainly, as someone who worked in the field, I can vouch for the fact that it will make a difference in the lives of many New Zealanders. I think many professionals across the spectrum would share with me in supporting this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EIt is a technical bill, not a sexy bill, but it is pragmatic and common sense. I think that says a lot about what we see on this side of the House. I commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Justice and Electoral Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022297508068fa34c9bafcf29ada06e4608\u0022\u003EHuman Rights Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222589428377924c469dfa1a069f094afa\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000663\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 29 November.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022eef2969527b84990b24ec5730021d22a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eef2969527b84990b24ec5730021d22a\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E I was on the verge of taking a call on this Human Rights Amendment Bill when the House adjourned last Thursday evening. As I look up at the clock, I suspect that the House may be spared the benefits of most of my thoughts on the subject again this evening. But in view of the fact that it has been several days since we began considering the measure, it might be helpful if I just remind you of some of the key points that the Minister of Justice outlined about the purpose of the bill in her introduction, because it is a significant measure. It is an amendment to our Human Rights Act of 1993, and it comes about in part because of a measure that the previous Labour Government took in the final months of its term in office in 2008, when it ratified the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. Article 33 of that convention requires States to \u201Cmaintain, strengthen, designate, or establish with the State Party, a framework, including one or more independent mechanisms, as appropriate, to promote, protect and monitor implementation of the present Convention.\u201D That is a very wordy article, but the gist of it is that we need to ensure that we have a very specific designated role for somebody to look after human rights under the broader constitutional arrangements that we have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI see that Mr Speaker is about to stand\u2014no, I am getting a bit more time. Mr Speaker has very kindly moved an extension of my time. It has never happened before and I am very grateful for this. The changes in the bill, therefore, will enable the Human Rights Commission that we already have in place to look after better the very important human rights field. At the moment, we have an Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner and a Race Relations Commissioner. Those roles will continue to exist, but in a slightly amended form. This enables us to bring human rights up on to the same level\u2014an equal footing. It is quite an important change to the structure. It is one that the Government is firmly dedicated to getting right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121204cc8c3147cd2840b1b29dc3d941460136000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002200b0e9314eb244708c0f770db16e1b09\u0022\u003ETuesday, 4 December 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e2e03f281cf9496db23000c10fd69df1\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 5 December 2012)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228dfe7ea8c88640a0ba351f910ca63906\u0022\u003EAntarctica (Environmental Protection: Liability Annex) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002201ffd9f1508f47ac80721859aa9a4ff0\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u002229ddaba296ca45a8a8b853cde492db92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229ddaba296ca45a8a8b853cde492db92\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Conservation) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: I move, That the Antarctica (Environmental Protection: Liability Annex) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. This bill was introduced to the House on 20 August 2009. The bill implements a liability framework for environmental emergencies that occur in the Antarctic Treaty area. This framework is set forth in annex VI to the Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty, which was adopted in 2005 following 13 years of negotiations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EAntarctica faces some serious challenges. There is a trend of increased human activity in the area, both governmental and non-governmental. The risks of detrimental environmental impact caused by this human activity in Antarctica have increased. Over recent years we have witnessed several incidents involving vessels in the Antarctic Treaty area. In the Ross Sea region alone, three vessels have sunk over the last two summer seasons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EUnder the bill, vessel operators, not including fishing vessels, pursuing activities in this fragile part of the world will be held accountable for their actions that give rise to environmental emergencies, incentivised to improve their operating standards, and required to take appropriate preventative measures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EUnder the bill, any New Zealand operator whose activities give rise to an environmental emergency in the Antarctic Treaty area will be required to notify the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade of that emergency, and to take prompt and effective response action to the emergency. To support and reinforce these requirements, the bill introduces new offences of failing to take appropriate action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EWhere a New Zealand operator fails to take prompt and effective action in response to an emergency caused by its activities, the bill imposes liability for the costs incurred by another annex party where that party has taken action that should have been taken by the New Zealand operator. Where no other annex party has taken any action in response to an environmental emergency arising from the activities of a New Zealand operator, an order from the High Court can be sought directing the New Zealand operator to pay the cost of the response action that should have been taken into an environmental protection fund administered by the Antarctic Treaty secretariat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003ELiability is strict and attaches to both State and non-State operators. As such, proof that the operator was negligent or otherwise at fault is not required. Liability is limited under the bill. The current limit set under the annex amounts to approximately US$1.5 million for environmental emergencies involving a ship of 2,000 tonnes or less, and additional liability based on an incremental scale for ships of more than 2,000 tonnes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EFor environmental emergencies not involving a ship, the maximum liability is approximately US$4.5 million. Liability cannot, however, be limited where an operator commits an act with intention of causing an emergency, or with recklessness with knowledge that an emergency would probably result. The liability limits set in the annex can be amended by the Antarctic Treaty Consultative Meeting, which meets once a year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe strict liability approach is designed to incentivise operators to reduce the risk of their activities causing environmental emergencies. In this regard, the annex also obliges parties to take preventative measures to reduce the risk of environmental emergencies, to establish contingency plans for these, and to carry insurance or a financial guarantee to cover the prescribed liability limits. These requirements will be implemented through conditions or ministerial directions, which will be attached to notifications by the Minister of Foreign Affairs in respect of required environmental impact assessments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe bill was considered by the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, which reported to the House on 26 November 2009. The committee received four written submissions on the bill and heard one oral submission. The submissions that the committee received emphasised the importance of environmental protection in the Antarctic and were broadly in support of the bill. The committee recommended unanimously that the bill be passed without amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EAnnex VI will enter into force once it has been approved by all 28 Antarctic Treaty consultative parties, including New Zealand. The bill and the annex that it implements will play an important role in promoting and improving the operating and safety standards in Antarctica and in protecting the fragile Antarctic environment at a time when it faces increased risks from human activities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003ENew Zealand, an original signatory of the Antarctic Treaty, has been a leader when it comes to the protection of the Antarctic environment. We played a leading role in chairing the negotiations leading to the adoption of the liability annex in 2005. The adoption of this bill is consistent with that leadership and our longstanding support for environmental protection in Antarctica. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022d48590ccf56a4de186922913bbbfbda1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d48590ccf56a4de186922913bbbfbda1\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E The Government certainly has not been in a hurry to pass this bill, the Antarctica (Environmental Protection: Liability Annex) Amendment Bill. It was introduced 3\u00BC years ago. In fact, it went through the select committee process very rapidly indeed. It was reported back to the House in November 2009. So for over 3 years this bill has languished on the Order Paper. The Government really needs to look at how it is managing its legislative agenda, when it cannot pass legislation that sends an important signal. New Zealand is, as the Minister of Conservation claimed, seen as a leading country in terms of environmental protection in Antarctica. Every party in the House will support this piece of legislation, but for some reason it has sat on the Order Paper for 3 years, and no explanation was offered by the Minister as to why that is the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ELabour supported the introduction of this bill, it supported its passage through the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, and it will be supporting the passage of the bill into law through its remaining stages today. The bill amends the Antarctica (Environmental Protection) Act 1994. It does so to implement New Zealand\u2019s obligations under annex VI to the Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty, Liability Arising from Environmental Emergencies. The origin of this particular protocol was back in Labour\u2019s time in 2005, when the 28th Antarctic Treaty Consultative Meeting adopted an annex dealing with environmental emergencies occurring in the Antarctic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EQuite a number of members of this House will have visited the Antarctic. Everyone who has been down there would have been just absolutely amazed at the pristine nature of an environment that is incredibly fragile and incredibly important to the world. And it is right that New Zealand, with its activities at Scott Base in the Ross Sea area, should be a leading country promoting the protection of the Antarctic environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EBack in 1959 New Zealand was very proudly one of the original signatories to the Antarctic Treaty. I want to talk just a little bit about this, because it was a remarkable treaty for the time. Just think back to 1959, when the world was in the middle of the Cold War. It was at the worst stages of the antagonism between the Soviet bloc and the United States and the countries aligned to it. This treaty declared that \u201CAntarctica shall be used for peaceful purposes only.\u201D That was the guiding principle of the treaty. It prohibited the establishment of military bases in the Antarctic, it prohibited the testing of weapons there, and it prohibited the dumping of any nuclear waste in the territory. It was a proud moment for the world. It showed, actually, that in the midst of the Cold War you could establish a model for international cooperation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EIn 1991 there was a further major milestone achieved. It was the Madrid Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty\u2014a protocol to the treaty that was concluded in Madrid in that year. That provided for comprehensive protection of the environment in the Antarctic. It set aside the Antarctic as a natural reserve devoted to peace and science. That also, building on the original 1959 treaty, was a major milestone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E The liability annex that we are debating today in the House was adopted in 2005. It sets out the rules and procedures relating to liability for damage that arises from activities taking place there. We played a leading role in the negotiation of that liability annex at the time when I was Minister of Foreign Affairs. In fact, New Zealand was the chair of the negotiations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThis bill implements the obligations that we signed up to in those negotiations. It requires operators\u2014that is, those who are conducting or organising Antarctic activities\u2014to take prompt, effective action when environmental emergencies arise from their activities. The New Zealand operators must notify the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade if they cause or if they discover an environmental emergency. If an operator fails to take prompt, effective response action, the annex party may do so, and the defaulting operator must reimburse the costs to the annex party. The High Court is empowered to order the operator to pay an amount representing the costs that were incurred. This is paid into an environmental protection fund administered by the Antarctic Treaty secretariat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EFailure to notify appropriate authorities or to take prompt and effective action has sanctions that are set out with terms of imprisonment, I think, of up to 2 years and/or a fine. I have got to say that those sanctions are not going to be the most effective deterrent. The most effective deterrent will be the reputation of the operator, because the wrath of the world will descend on anybody who desecrates an environment as important and fragile as that in Antarctica. The bill sets out situations in which an operator is exempt from liability, and it also imposes a financial limit on liability for emergencies involving a ship\u2014that is, the equivalent of US$1.5 million, and US$4.5 million for other environmental emergencies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThis bill is a positive step, though it is not sufficient in itself to protect the pristine natural environment of Antarctica, which could be threatened, for example, by oil spills from the increasing number of tourist ships that visit the region or, indeed, from fishing vessels. We have entered into an obligation to implement the liability annex, and it is actually past time for us to finally do so. As I mentioned in introducing my comments, this bill is now 3\u00BC years old. It was introduced a long time ago, and it passed quickly through the select committee. Maybe the next speaker from the National Party side can explain why it has languished on the Order Paper and not progressed, because I can see no reason why that should have been the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226be83b2c71f045539ae41ab060627154\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: It never happened under Labour!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0e7fca894b843ebbabc7cfa7b0fe8df\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, actually the Labour Government, as Paul Hutchison so nobly admits, was very active in passing legislation. It got legislation through, and, actually, it was the party that organised and led the negotiations for the very important annex that we are recognising today in this legislation to actually pass through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe Antarctic environment is vulnerable and it is fragile, and it is the more so because actually there is an increasing number of visitors going to Antarctica\u2014something in excess of 50,000 a year. That creates real threats to an environment that is as fragile as the ice sheet down there is. It is also becoming a magnet in terms of a much larger number of countries wanting to establish a permanent presence there. We should be leading by example, and the delay in passing this legislation is not leading by example. We need the treaty to be ratified by all of the consultative parties, and we should be leading the way so that this annex comes into effect as quickly as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EParliament can and should remedy the long delay in passing this legislation by putting it through its remaining, second and third, readings today. I welcome the legislation, and I welcome the signal it sends that New Zealand continues to take very seriously its obligations in the Antarctic\u2014in particular, in relation to the protection of the environment there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u0022c32b8232e0714d45ab142a4c8fc9f38e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c32b8232e0714d45ab142a4c8fc9f38e\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise and speak on this bill, the Antarctica (Environmental Protection: Liability Annex) Amendment Bill, because I, along with all New Zealanders, value our clean, green Kiwi image and believe we should do our part in being an environmentally responsible member of our region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThe last speaker might do well to reflect on who was responsible for progressing this legislation back in 2005 when, as I recall, that speaker claimed responsibility for New Zealand chairing the negotiations that led to this amendment bill. I think the foreign Minister at that point was someone called Phil Goff, and I presume that that Phil Goff had 3 years between 2005 and 2008 to secure that outcome, when he churlishly sits across the House and accuses us of sitting on our backsides. Well, look in the mirror, Mr Goff\u2014look in the mirror\u2014because I have sat here for the last 12 months watching members on that side of the House doing their level best to stifle democracy through filibustering, and I have watched them sit here with all sorts of social engineering legislation and other things, which they have valued as of a higher priority than this piece of legislation that we are progressing today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aecc7740a9e54d52a6d86399e073f9d6\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Too busy stifling democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291b95520186c45feba2e5d86ba6d886d\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, Dr Hutchison. They have been too busy stifling democracy. New Zealand is a trading nation, and we depend on our relationships with other countries to lift economic performance. Global agreements such as the Antarctic Treaty are part of ensuring our presence and reputation as a responsible nation that pulls its weight globally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EAs Mr Goff notes, the bill went through the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee with totally unanimous agreement, and the bill was reported back with no amendments at all. I think that is a credit to ex-colleagues of mine in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade who drafted this bill and to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, who brought it to the House. The passing of this bill, as the Minister has said, will enable New Zealand to formally approve the Antarctic liability annex, but it will not enter into force until it has been approved by all 28 treaty consultative parties, including New Zealand. We are one of the 12 original signatories to the Antarctic Treaty, which was signed, I think, in Washington in about December 1959. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThe National Government supports this bill very strongly. We support not only the fulfilment of our international obligations set up under this protocol but also the protection of the Antarctic\u2019s unique environment. The bill is consistent with the Government\u2019s foreign and environmental policies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThe environmental issue is extremely important. I was talking to a scientist here in Parliament late last week who was explaining to me that she had been down in the Dry Valleys, and tyre tracks were clearly visible, left by Sir Edmund Hillary in, I think, 1963. Human footprints in the Antarctic are there for the long haul. We, of course, have strong historical links with Antarctica\u2014in exploration, in research, and in environmental protection. Scott Base has been New Zealand\u2019s permanent base in Antarctica since 1959. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThe annex is an important part of our environmental protection regime, and we strongly support it. We are a party to the Madrid Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty, including the treaty parties in Madrid, Spain, in 1991. This protocol provides for a comprehensive regime for the protection of the Antarctic environment, as well as dependent and associated ecosystems. Under the protocol, Antarctica is designated as a natural reserve devoted to peace and science. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EI really support this legislation. It is an excellent piece of legislation, and it is a great pleasure seeing it go through the House this morning. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0508169feaa46728112b8c4e4e54d33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0508169feaa46728112b8c4e4e54d33\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is interesting to follow on from Mr Hayes, who did, actually, completely fail to answer Phil Goff\u2019s question of exactly why it is that the Antarctica (Environmental Protection: Liability Annex) Amendment Bill, having gone through the select committee deliberation under Mr Hayes\u2019 excellent chairmanship of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, languished on the Order Paper for another 3 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI note that the Order Paper currently contains 12 bills that have been sitting there for at least 2 years. It is just plain poor management. Mr Hayes tried to suggest that this is the kind of thing that might have happened under a Labour Government. That is not true. Michael Cullen worked very hard to ensure that bills made their way through in a timely manner, with the exception, I might say, of the trout bill, which did stay on the Order Paper for many years\u2014with that exception. This National Government has shown a consistent lack of ability to make progress on legislation, and this bill is a very good example of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAll parties in this House, I am sure, will support this bill. It has at its heart an important part to play in the goal of protecting and preserving Antarctica, its critical role in our planet, and its critical role in our part of this planet. What this bill does is ensure that where there are activities that may give rise to emergencies there is a process in place for notification of that, and that there is an appropriate response when people fail to do what they need to do in terms of both preventing emergencies and notifying about them. It is the kind of legislation that, clearly, we need to pass in this House. People listening to both the Minister of Conservation and John Hayes might get the impression that this Government has a strong and resolute commitment to New Zealand\u2019s role in protecting and preserving the Antarctic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022550d039fd17a4b27be2aab6d8edf0cc7\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Smoke and mirrors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7360097de8c4e2a8f15b5461ae9345a\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is, as my colleague Kris Faafoi says, smoke and mirrors. Fundamentally, other countries in the world look towards New Zealand as a leader on the Antarctic. They do that not only because of our proximity to the Antarctic but because New Zealand has traditionally taken that leadership role. We have taken seriously our job to promote quality legislation in the environment, and to show that we have a real commitment. I have to question that level of commitment. John Hayes said that New Zealand wants to be a country that pulls its weight globally on environmental issues. Well, what is happening right now in Doha, where climate change negotiations are under way and New Zealand is day after day being pilloried for its lack of leadership?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b09305502634c0f821272a00553e1ab\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: The \u201CFossil Award\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022815b967426b545eeb31a1f8cd6d25c4d\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As Charles Chauvel says, I think for 3 days now that the \u201CFossil Award\u201D at those negotiations has gone to New Zealand. Craig Foss puts his thumb up and says he is delighted. That is the National Party\u2019s level of commitment to New Zealand\u2019s international reputation, and that is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c25468d2a68d4a1c94891b03703a60c1\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019ll be fossilised soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290504dd3bb0043f59ae98b7994756ca6\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: He is a fossil\u2014do not worry. That is the level of commitment this Government has to international environmental issues. We now have a Government that is at these negotiations and is thumbing its nose at a future global climate change agreement, when that is what people look to New Zealand for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EMr Hayes also said that our clean, green reputation is important. Why, then, is this Government constantly undermining that in international fora? It is not only at the climate change negotiations, where it is disgraceful that New Zealand has backed away. Mr Key said that he did not want us to be a leader in climate change. He wants us to be a fast follower. Well, now we are a disinterested bystander at these negotiations. That is not good enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIf we come back to the Antarctic specifically, what we saw during the recent Convention on the Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources negotiations was that the actions from the Government from New Zealand were, frankly, too little, too late. If we actually are going to have true commitment to the Antarctic and true commitment to protecting the environment, we needed to be much more decisive and aggressive in our commitment to ensuring that there was an agreement around the Ross Sea region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EFinally, after a significant length of time, the New Zealand Government decided that it would get alongside the US with its proposal on the marine protected area there, but it was simply too little, too late. We cannot afford, both for the health of the Antarctic and for our international reputation, to take so long to make our commitments in this area, be it in terms of the marine protected area, or be it in terms of passing legislation such as this bill. It is our obligation as a country that has such close links with the Antarctic to be at the head of the pack, not lagging behind, letting legislation sit on the Order Paper, or not proposing and actively working to find a good, constructive solution in terms of the Ross Sea region and the marine protected area there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe know the significance of the Antarctic to New Zealand in terms of our commitment to the environment. There is also a strong commitment for us in terms of the work that is done, by New Zealand, out of Christchurch, and to ensure that we retain our reputation as a staunch defender of the Antarctic we need to do significantly better than we have in terms of the legislation that is in front of us now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe level of commitment that New Zealand shows to the Antarctic is something that, over the years, we have been proud of, and I just caution against this Government seeing our role in the Antarctic as something that it can continue to provide a flippant kind of leadership towards. We need it to be far more decisive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOn the subject of climate change and its relationship to the Antarctic\u2014Mr Hayes alluded to this, as well\u2014there is nowhere on our planet where the effects of climate change are more obvious than the Antarctic. This Government\u2019s lack of leadership on climate change, its undermining of the emissions trading scheme, and its failure to take a role at the international level that I think most New Zealanders would see as appropriate continues to undermine the health of the Antarctic, which in turn undermines the health of our planet. If the National Government cannot get its head around the importance of taking decisive action on climate change, then it cannot stand in this House and say that it has a commitment to the protection and preservation of Antarctica. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo on this side of the House we are happy to support this bill. We believe that it has been a long time coming, and we want to see more decisive action from this Government on Antarctica. I actually think there is willingness across the House to do more in terms of our relationship if the Government is prepared to take a leadership role, but having a bill like this sit on the Order Paper for 3 years is completely unacceptable, and shows a lack of commitment from this Government on those issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u002260279895e0b94639b8a8626977558643\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260279895e0b94639b8a8626977558643\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. I rise to support the Antarctica (Environmental Protection: Liability Annex) Amendment Bill. Antarctica is a special, pristine place. The health of the world can be measured in the ice, kilometres thick, of Antarctica. It is a place that New Zealand has a special relationship to, both historically and environmentally, and as a pioneer of protecting it internationally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EUnlike some of the members who have touched on the debate who have been privileged enough to travel to Antarctica, I have not been fortunate enough to be down there, but I have seen some of the amazing cinematography in the film The Last Ocean. This is a powerful film, which I urge all members of Parliament to see, by an esteemed and now award-winning New Zealand film-maker who uses the film to argue quite coherently, quite logically, and quite passionately, for protection of a region that is of special significance to New Zealand, which is the Ross Sea. New Zealand, unfortunately, has pioneered and is leading the exploitation of the dangerous and, I believe, unscientifically based current toothfish fishery down there. I guess a special point for you, Mr Assistant Speaker Tisch, is that I am disappointed that I have not been able to show this film to members of Parliament, despite repeated requests. Unfortunately the Green Party, along with New Zealand First and the Labour Party, has not been able to screen this film. Despite my challenge to numerous National members to join us so that we can show this film, I hope you, Mr Assistant Speaker, can allow this special film, which is a real New Zealand art work, to be shown. I think that if more of us had been able to go down there or had seen this film, we would know the importance and the challenge that we have facing us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EAntarctica, quite plainly, is under threat. It is not just climate change, which we have heard about today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3a68f47fad441268d5d3f893314bf84\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Is the member going down in a sailboat? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f23bf7c5b2754349922851b1e37620d6\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: I will respond to the interjection: I would love to go down in a sailboat. I would go down tomorrow if you would give me a berth. I would love to go down, and I think that every Kiwi should get the chance. But this is one of the problems. Now we have tens of thousands of people going down to Antarctica every year. It is not just the climate change, it is not just the fishing boats; it is those tens of thousands of tourists. What we have seen are numerous concerning incidents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EJust looking through some of the history, what we have seen in 2008 is the MV Ushuaia running aground. We have seen the Ocean Nova grounded. We have seen in the last couple of years the Jung Woo 2, the Sparta, and, tragically, the No. 1 In Sung, which lost 22 lives down there. We have seen the Japanese whaling ship the Nisshin Maru explode and catch fire, which resulted in the loss of life. We have seen the Argos Georgia drifting for 15 days when it lost power. We have seen a litany of accidents happening down there, many of them avoidable, so it is good that we are debating this legislation, which deals with some of those real, growing threats facing Antarctica and the oceans around it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ESo what this bill does is implement annex VI to the Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty. This annex was adopted in 2005. It establishes the liability regime. It has a financial limit. It requires New Zealand operators that give rise to or discover an emergency to notify the New Zealand Government, and it provides penalties and offences for failing to take prompt and effective action. We would have preferred something stronger. This is not a criticism of the previous negotiators, who we believe did do a good job, but what we do believe is that we actually do need a comprehensive liability regime. What we have seen over the course of the Rena was that New Zealand was not prepared. Our liability regime was capped under the Resource Management Act to $600,000. What we know is that the Rena has cost New Zealand taxpayers tens of millions of dollars. It is a good example of where we need to have legislative forethought to prepare for liability when we know accidents will happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI would like to touch on our special relationship with Antarctica. We, obviously, were the jumping-off spot for many of the discoverers. We were an original signatory back in 1959, and it is important that we do pass this legislation, because our turning this bill into an Act does help turn this annex into reality when 28 Antarctic Treaty nations all do likewise. So what we are passing today is the missing piece of the environmental Antarctica protocol, which was negotiated in 1991 and came into effect in 1998, and it is good that New Zealand is playing its role in protecting the Antarctic continent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe share Labour\u2019s concerns about the slow response by the Government benches, as the bill has been on the Order Paper for an awfully long time. But I guess when you are the Minister of Conservation, Kate Wilkinson, you are currently sitting on what is the second-longest bill ever to languish in a select committee\u2014the Marine Reserves Bill, which is coming up to, I think, its decade anniversary at a select committee\u2014and I guess if the Marine Reserves Bill is your benchmark, she is not doing too badly with this one. I guess the question the Government benches have not answered is why it has languished so long. I do not agree with Labour; I do not think it is just poor management. I think poor management of the House does play a role, but I think what we have seen in this current term of the Government is the Government take a very decidedly anti-environmental tack. It has come down very hard. We have seen it walk out of the Kyoto Protocol. We have seen it attack scientists personally. We have seen it wax lyrical about the \u201Cclean, green\u201D brand, likening it to McDonald\u2019s. If there is anything so fatty and sugar-coated and not what it makes out it should be, such as a McDonald\u2019s burger, I think we are likening it to what the National Party\u2019s vision of the \u201Cclean, green\u201D brand is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWhat we have seen is a Minister who is prepared to act as an accessory to the extinction of the M\u0101ui\u2019s dolphin, so although John Hayes talks about our \u201Cclean, green\u201D brand, we are running it through the dirt. We are seeing the Government take a decidedly anti-environmental turn. Those members are acting as if they were environmental vandals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ESo we are happy that we are finally getting progress on it. We urge progress, likewise, on the Marine Reserves Bill. But what we think we need to do is have a discussion now about how we do make this regime more comprehensive. Just lastly, I welcome the call by the Labour benches that we should have a cross-party agreement when it comes to the protection of the Ross Sea. It was embarrassing for New Zealand to walk out of the negotiations with the United States Government on protecting the Ross Sea. It was embarrassing that we were seen to be there at the Convention on the Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources negotiations protecting our own narrow, small, vested fishing interests. We are talking about 0.17 percent of our fishing, and our Government was prepared to run that \u201Cclean, green\u201D brand through the mud, but I guess the Labour member Shane Jones knows all about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIt would be good to have cross-party support for protecting the Ross Sea. I think we have a special opportunity now that the Commission on the Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources has agreed to a second negotiating period next year. This is a real opportunity for New Zealand to now show some leadership. I would love to see the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Murray McCully, do some active lobbying around the world. We do have an opportunity. I think the world does want to see greater environmental protection in the marine reserves down there. I believe we can see it happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ESo, all in all, we welcome voting for this bill. We think that extended hours is a good use of the House\u2019s time. Perhaps this could have been adopted earlier. We would like to go a bit stronger and we would open that discussion in the future, but it is good to be passing this legislation today. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u002276b62e45875f4acdad1c5621897e0b94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276b62e45875f4acdad1c5621897e0b94\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to take a short call on the Antarctica (Environmental Protection: Liability Annex) Amendment Bill. The bill went through the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee with unanimous agreement and with no amendments, which is indeed a testament to the drafters, to the parties, to the Parliament, and to the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254a42efb49ff4465bff82982b0855a41\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: And then languished on the Order Paper for 3 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf140a8a77b24d60a0c15365e2ccacfc\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: I once again hear Phil Goff, who was a Minister at the time when the protocol was settled and could have easily expedited this bill in his time\u2014much more frequently. There is no doubt that all New Zealanders very much value our clean, green image, as Mr Hayes pointed out. I was quite surprised, if not amazed, to hear those Labour speakers, Grant Robertson and Phil Goff, talking about climate change, because, after all, it is the National Government that did initiate the global alliance, which does show true and relevant leadership in terms of climate change. This was initiated by New Zealand, and, indeed, is very, very pertinent to New Zealand and pertinent to the world, and a contribution where we can lead and we can make a great difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThis bill deals with environmental emergencies occurring in the Antarctic. New Zealand was one of the 12 original signatories of the Antarctic Treaty in 1959. Today actually marks 53 years and 5 days since that treaty was signed. It just happens to be the day of my wife\u2019s birthday, so happy birthday, Antonia. She, of course, is much younger and prettier than that. Under the protocol, the Antarctic is designated a natural reserve devoted to peace and science, and I do believe that that is absolutely right and proper. At Scott Base we have just seen the completion of the joint project between New Zealand and the US with the three turbines of the wind farm, which has reduced the need for diesel by the order of 11 percent, and it will continue. This is a great bill. It is highly positive and it is wonderful that the National Government and the Parliament can be rightly proud of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e750064f264c49c8a30eebeb52158579\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e750064f264c49c8a30eebeb52158579\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First is also very happy indeed to support this bill, the Antarctica (Environmental Protection: Liability Annex) Amendment Bill. I note that the main provisions of it are, first of all, that it requires operators to take prompt, effective action when environmental emergencies arise from their activities, and those activities, of course, are increasing every day in that part of the world. New Zealand operators must notify the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade if they cause or discover an environmental emergency. If an operator fails to do so, then another annex party may do so and the New Zealand operator would then have to reimburse those costs. Where no annex party takes any such action, the High Court in New Zealand may order the operator to pay an amount representing the costs that would have been incurred had prompt and effective response action been taken. That amount, of course, is paid into the environmental protection fund administered by the Antarctic Treaty secretariat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe bill also sets out the situations in which an operator is exempt from liability and imposes a financial limit on liability. I am pleased to see that the liability is strict and attaches to both State and non-State operators. I am pleased also to see that the bill removes the requirement for the Attorney-General to consent to civil proceedings against operators, since the bill aims to facilitate such actions and requiring the Attorney-General\u2019s approval would be seen as a barrier. I think that those objectives are just what we should be doing in Antarctica, and I think it is a good start. Of course, a lot more needs to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E New Zealand has had a very long association with Antarctica. That began, of course, many years ago\u2014over a century ago now\u2014with the Scott and Shackleton expeditions, which were very much supported in New Zealand, and in particular where I come from in Christchurch. I remember the 1957-58 International Geophysical Year there\u2014I was just a young child then\u2014and being taken out to Harewood to see the Globemasters and the other aircraft that were being used in the Antarctic. New Zealanders were then, and still are, very enthusiastic about New Zealand\u2019s involvement in the Antarctic, and seeing that it is kept as a place for peaceful activities and where the environment should be protected. New Zealand has always had a leadership role to play, and that continues today. It was one of the first signatories to the 1959 treaty, and has maintained an active presence since. New Zealand must always continue to show leadership in the Antarctic and we must always maintain our presence there at Scott Base. I think it is an investment very well made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe issue today, of course, is the threat to the Antarctic environment from some of the activities we are seeing there. As I have said, I am therefore very pleased indeed to see New Zealand support a strict liability regime for operators in the Antarctic. That is no less than should be done, and, as I have already also said, this bill is really only a beginning. It is a very good beginning and New Zealand First is enthusiastic about supporting it, but we do think more needs to be done, especially in the supervision of activities of all parties in the Antarctic to see that its environment is maintained and protected. The same effort, of course, should really be put into the huge oceanic area in New Zealand\u2019s economic zone, but that is another issue. For the time being, New Zealand First will be very happy indeed to support this bill, and would like to encourage further action by the Government to ensure New Zealand plays its part in the future in the protection of the Antarctic environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022 data-id=\u00222064b55fd5c0434e814317226badaa99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222064b55fd5c0434e814317226badaa99\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E Like previous speakers I am very pleased also to be part of supporting the Antarctica (Environmental Protection: Liability Annex) Amendment Bill. It has been interesting listening to the various speeches, particularly the Minister of Conservation\u2019s opening comments, but it has also been particularly concerning and interesting to listen to our opponents and their contribution, and their various references to the New Zealand Government\u2019s lack of focus in environmental issues. I guess it is one of those examples of where sometimes actions speak louder than words. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EIn the previous 9 years of the Labour Government we had a woeful, woeful period of environmental legislative protection. We, in fact, languished. The fable, I guess, that comes to mind is the one about the emperor who has no clothes. They talked all the time, but they actually did nothing. To suggest that in some way New Zealand is now turning its back on the environment is about as shallow and as short-sighted as it is possible to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThere was reference, particularly by the former trade and foreign affairs Minister, to the Doha round. I look upon the Doha round currently taking place as having similarity to a bunch of drunks going off to another booze-up to talk about the effects of alcoholism. That is how I would look at some of that activity. I wonder how they get there. Do they go by sailboat? Do they ride their bikes or do they fly in jet planes? I wonder how they get there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThe only thing that New Zealand has done in recent times in terms of changes in direction is to remove agricultural admissions from the emissions trading scheme. How, by taxing methane emissions from animals, were we going to reduce our environmental impact?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffaec23d78c849338f88001a422364b6\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! We\u2019re on the Antarctic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d0649a0a0754160842d966f9ec58441\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That is the question and no one has been able to answer that. Mr Speaker, in talking about the passing of this bill, I have heard a wide-ranging debate and I thought that must be licence for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EAs one of my colleagues said, New Zealand is one of the 12 original signatories to the Antarctic Treaty, which was signed on 1 December 1959 in Washington, DC and which we have since then had many other involvements in. This is yet another example of that. I suggest to our opponents over there, given that they were involved in the original negotiations\u2014in fact, the former Minister who was involved is present in the House\u2014that it is in fact quite unusual that we would be here today after all this time debating this bill given the time that they had to further this important piece of legislation. I am sure the bill would have been passed prior to now if it had not been, of course, for the fact that they have spent so much time filibustering on all sorts of nonsense that needed no extra time spent on it up until this point in time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThis is one of those rare occasions, of course, where Parliament is unanimous, and it is a privilege to be part of it when it is unanimous on something as important as this particular legislation. So I look forward to its passage through Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022c89d335a666a421297039107c46267fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c89d335a666a421297039107c46267fb\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the Antarctica (Environmental Protection: Liability Annex) Amendment Bill. The Antarctic Treaty came into force on 23 June 1961. As Phil Goff explained to the House, it was a unique piece of international law at the time, and it remains unique in the sense that it suspended claims to sovereignty over a large part of the Earth\u2019s land surface. It committed the Antarctic region to demilitarisation and to peace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThere have been numerous subsequent agreements to which New Zealand has been a party that have furthered the aims and the scheme of the original treaty. One of the most significant of those relates to environmental protection. The Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty was signed in October 1991. It entered into force, because it got sufficient member State signatories, on 14 January 1998. It is one of the most significant international environment agreements that have ever been concluded. It prevents development, and it provides for the protection of the Antarctic environment through five specific annexes. They relate to marine protection, flora and fauna, environmental impact assessments, waste management, and protected areas. It prohibits all activities relating to mineral resources except for the purpose of scientific investigation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E Where this annex fits into that scheme is that it is the sixth annex to that particular agreement, and it relates, as previous speakers have said, to liability arising from environmental emergencies. It was adopted back in 2005, but it is yet to come into force because not enough nations have yet passed the necessary domestic legislation to allow for ratification. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke, I think, commented on some of the provisions of the legislation that will be necessary to bring this particular annex into force in respect of New Zealand law. The reason that the international legal regime relating to Antarctica is unique is that when we ratify a treaty in most cases there is an international legal enforcement mechanism, but none exists in respect of Antarctica. Antarctica has no permanent population. It has no enforcement system in its treaties, and, particularly when it comes to environmental protection, the States parties have to enact domestic legislation that permits their courts to provide for enforcement, because there is no international machinery. That is why this particular protocol is so significant and why I certainly welcome, along with my colleagues, the passage, finally, of this legislation through the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI am certainly very glad that we are getting on to implementing the liability annex, but, as Phil Goff pointed out, 3 years on the Order Paper is too long. It is a symbol, I think, of the casual way with which we are treating a very, very important environmental matter. As Grant Robertson said, other examples are the way in which we have seen our treaty obligations under the Kyoto Protocol and the second commitment period treated by this Government, along with domestic legislation on that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E Just as we have seen the Prime Minister admit that the \u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D brand is simply a marketing exercise as far as he is concerned, I was interested to hear Shane Ardern try to rebut our concerns about the laxness of the environmental record of this Government. He claimed that there had been 9 years of inaction when we were in office. Well, nothing could be further from the truth. Perhaps Mr Ardern could explain, or perhaps one of his colleagues who is about to get to their feet could explain, why in 2008 New Zealand stood, as a result of the record of the Helen Clark - led Labour Government, at No. 1 in the Yale environmental rankings, independently put together by a leading United States university. In the 4 short years of this Government we have fallen to No. 14 in that ranking system, and it looks like we will fall further. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThat is the independent evidence about this Government\u2019s stewardship of the environment and of conservation matters. Those members should hang their heads in shame. Although I welcome, as I said, the final passage of this legislation, it has taken too long, and if this attitude to the environment continues on the part of that Government it will be a deservedly short-lived one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u00221d87f0a539a64c608a6d8741abc4b6a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d87f0a539a64c608a6d8741abc4b6a5\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the chance to rise to speak on the Antarctica (Environmental Protection: Liability Annex) Amendment Bill. I would just like to rebut my colleague Charles Chauvel. The level of deforestation under the previous Labour Government in 2007-08 was appalling. Our forests were ravaged the length of the country and only under this Government has replanting commenced apace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EThe Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee passed this bill with unanimous agreement. It has been great to see that this issue, which is so important to all of New Zealand, has received unanimous support in the House today. New Zealand has huge and strong links with Antarctica in exploration, research, and environmental protection, and we have had Scott Base, our permanent base, there since 1959. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is one of the 12 original signatories, as we have heard, to the Antarctic Treaty, which was signed in December 1959 in Washington, DC. New Zealand\u2019s governance activities in Antarctica and the Southern Ocean, including the Ross Dependency, which is fact constitutionally part of New Zealand, are overseen by Antarctica New Zealand, the Crown entity that maintains New Zealand\u2019s operational presence in research and development in the area for the benefit of present and future generations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EThe record of international cooperation in Antarctica is a long and strong one, and it remains a crucial area for environmental research. It is also, as I said, an outstanding example of longstanding international cooperation. This bill implements many of New Zealand\u2019s international treaty obligations regarding liability for environmental emergencies in Antarctica. It will also, as we have heard previous speakers mention, implement New Zealand\u2019s obligation under an annex VI to the Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00227f118e91455d4a989963b65608c3e1a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f118e91455d4a989963b65608c3e1a3\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a 5-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdbfee8dc1644c20b826d2ccdf83c660\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdbfee8dc1644c20b826d2ccdf83c660\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call to support this bill, the Antarctica (Environmental Protection: Liability Annex) Amendment Bill. I am delighted to support this bill from the Parliament of \u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D, aiming at protecting the 100 percent pure Antarctic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EAs my colleagues noted earlier, this bill has been languishing on the Order Paper for more than 3 years, and during those 3 years the \u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D image has been seriously undermined under this National-ACT Government. New Zealand has slipped from first to 14th on the Yale Environmental Performance Index, and for our performance trend in recent years we rank 50th, as our environment is on the decline. Simply look at our rivers. Simply look at our emissions trading scheme policy initiatives. It is not about only our \u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D clean and green image; it is also about our obligations both domestically and internationally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe main purpose of this bill is to implement New Zealand\u2019s international treaty obligations regarding the liability of environmental agencies in Antarctica. New Zealand is one of the 12 original signatories to the Antarctic Treaty, which was signed on 1 December 1959 in Washington, DC. We have had a close relationship with the Antarctic. We are geographically close to the Antarctic, and since 1923 we have maintained our right of sovereignty over the Ross Dependency. New Zealand\u2019s claim to the region was formalised in 1923 when the Governor-General of New Zealand was appointed as Governor of the Ross Dependency by an imperial Order in Council made in London in the United Kingdom. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EAt 14 million square kilometres, the Antarctic is the fifth largest continent in area. According to Wikipedia, there are more than 10 million penguins residing there. This is one of the reasons why this bill is important. It is also important because of the amazing environment that exists there that supports research and exploration, and, therefore, the need for environmental protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ENew Zealand first became party to the Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty, signed by the treaty parties in Madrid, Spain, in 1991. This protocol provides for a comprehensive regime for the protection of the Antarctic environment, as well as dependent and associated ecosystems. Under the protocol the Antarctic is designated as a natural reserve devoted to peace and science. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EA key aspect of this bill is that it requires New Zealand operators to notify the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade if they cause or discover an environmental emergency. The bill requires operators in the Antarctic to take prompt, effective response actions when environmental emergencies arise from their activities. If they fail to do so, they will be required to reimburse any second party that reports the emergency, or may be ordered by the High Court to pay the costs to the environmental protection fund administered by the Antarctic Treaty secretariat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EApproving the liability annex is an opportunity to highlight and promote New Zealand\u2019s support for a strong environmental protection regime for the Antarctic, both domestically and internationally. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u002281a8be6bc0a94ebaaaf9977a9cab52a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281a8be6bc0a94ebaaaf9977a9cab52a3\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. As a Christchurch-based MP, I am pleased to take a short call on the Antarctica (Environmental Protection: Liability Annex) Amendment Bill. Christchurch has very strong associations with Antarctica. It has been the gateway to Antarctic exploration from the very early days, it is the headquarters for Antarctic New Zealand, and there are a number of fascinating exhibits and artefacts from Antarctic exploration at the Canterbury Museum. Of course, vessels bound for Antarctica will often replenish their supplies in the port of Lyttelton, and the aircraft leave from Harewood. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAs others have noted, the Antarctic Treaty, signed in 1959, with its focus on the use of Antarctica for peaceful purposes, is a model for international cooperation. The continent is the world\u2019s largest wilderness area, and there is certainly an international expectation that the highest standards of environmental performance should apply to all who operate there. That is why in 1991 in Madrid the treaty partners agreed to append the Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty to establish a protection regime for the continent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis agreement in 1991 included a commitment to negotiate and agree on procedures and rules for liability for any environmental damage. That was eventually negotiated and agreed in Stockholm in 2005. So this bill inserts new Part 5A into the principal Act. New Part 5A sets out the legal liability for damage to the Antarctic environment, and it implements New Zealand\u2019s obligations under annex VI to the Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty. It deals specifically with liability arising from environmental emergencies. Because it applies just to emergencies, rather than establishing a comprehensive regime for environmental damage, it was not as broad as environmental groups were urging the partners to adopt. But it will be a significant improvement on the current rules for managing Antarctica. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ENew Zealand chaired the negotiations in Stockholm, which resulted in the liability annex. So when the bill was introduced in 2009 New Zealand was expected to be one of the first countries to formally approve the annex by adopting it into domestic law. So we share with Labour the concerns about the delay, but we still support the bill and will be pleased when it is passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe effects of the bill, as others have noted, will be that New Zealand operators, such as tourism operators who discover or who cause an environmental emergency, such as an oil spill, must immediately notify the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, and then respond promptly and effectively. The bill sets out a regime for offences, and a mechanism to recover costs if the operator fails to act. And, as the Minister noted, it does cap liability for various incidents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThere were only four submissions on the bill. The Environment and Conservation Organisations of New Zealand sought that it be extended to cover all vessels leaving New Zealand, including fishing vessels. That would have been logical, given the number of marine incidents we have seen in recent years that have raised the need for a comprehensive liability regime. That includes, of course, the Nisshin Maru, which was a whale processing ship in the Ross Sea, where an explosion caused loss of life and power in 2007. But the officials\u2019 view and the view of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee was that there was no agreement between the treaty partners on the issue of having a comprehensive liability regime, including fishing vessels, during the annex negotiations, so it could not proceed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThat highlights a major problem with the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations, which are occurring this week in New Zealand. As with those negotiations, if there are any changes to domestic law, there is the potential that if those changes have not been agreed by the States parties negotiating in Auckland, then there will not be an ability to amend domestic law to provide for that. In this bill there is a lot of support for it and it is being done with a lot of transparency. But agreements like the Trans-Pacific Partnership and their potential to override domestic law are a major problem. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a59ca38be7f841eab00fa4de5cee98ad\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u00225c01eeff92004ab1956ec6e69e724f45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c01eeff92004ab1956ec6e69e724f45\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Conservation)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: I move, That the Antarctica (Environmental Protection: Liability Annex) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220be0f3133e3243749ef60cfe44e9c1c3\u0022\u003EGeneva Conventions (Third Protocol\u2014Red Crystal Emblem) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002237cbe4eb20484b7b8dbc3f3033703be2\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u0022f74e2a86e3424e998cb445c2d674b78b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f74e2a86e3424e998cb445c2d674b78b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS TREMAIN (Minister of Civil Defence)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: I move, That the Geneva Conventions (Third Protocol\u2014Red Crystal Emblem) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. The bill implements New Zealand\u2019s obligations under the third additional protocol to the Geneva Conventions of 1949. The four Geneva Conventions and their additional protocols represent the core framework of international humanitarian law: regulating the conduct of armed conflicts. They are among the most universal international treaties in existence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe third protocol establishes a new distinctive emblem, known as the Red Crystal, giving it the same legal recognition and protection from misuse that the Red Cross, the Red Crescent, and the Red Lion and Sun currently enjoy under the Geneva Conventions framework. Like the other recognised emblems, authorised users, such as medical personnel, may display the Red Crystal to receive protection from hostile acts in situations of armed conflict. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe Red Crystal emblem provides an alternative to the Red Cross and Red Crescent emblems, and is intended to be free from any national, religious, cultural, or political connotations. The third protocol is seen as a practical solution to a practical problem. Its adoption will allow the Israeli national society, the Magen David Adom, and the Palestinian Red Crescent Society to be admitted to the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe adoption of the third protocol creates a more flexible environment by allowing the indicative use of a combination of recognised emblems or the Red Shield of David within the home territory of a national society, as long as the emblem or combination of emblems is incorporated within the frame of the Red Crystal. Arrangements like this were not permitted under previous rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EAlthough the New Zealand Defence Force will continue to use the Red Cross to designate its medical and religious personnel and equipment, it is essential that our armed forces personnel recognise the protective use of the Red Crystal emblem by other forces and authorised civilian organisations. It is also time that New Zealand joined the 92 other signatories to the third protocol and the 60 countries that have ratified it in formally recognising the Red Crystal emblem as part of the core framework of international humanitarian law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EI thank the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee for its careful consideration of this bill. The committee received one submission, from the International Committee of the Red Cross, strongly supporting the passage of the bill. The select committee recommends that the bill be passed with amendments, and I consider that the committee\u2019s recommendations improve the bill and enhance New Zealand\u2019s domestic implementation of the third protocol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe bill amends the Geneva Conventions Act 1958 so that all the distinctive emblems receive the same legal recognition and protection. The bill also increases the maximum penalty for an offence under section 8 of the Geneva Conventions Act from a fine of $1,000 to a fine of $10,000. The current penalty was set in 1987, and the proposed penalty is more in line with similar offences for misusing protected symbols.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E The committee recommended that section 3 of the Geneva Conventions Act be amended to include a grave breach of the third protocol as an offence under the Act. Although the third protocol does not explicitly require such an offence to be created, it is sensible for a grave misuse of the Red Crystal to be recognised as an offence in the same way as a grave misuse of any other protected emblem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe bill also makes a number of minor and technical amendments to existing legislation. The adoption of the third protocol has been an important step in enhancing protection for medical and humanitarian workers who will use the emblem in conflict situations, especially where the existing emblems cannot be used. It is also an important step towards promoting the unity and universality of the Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EPassing this bill will enable New Zealand to ratify the third protocol, reaffirming our strong support for international humanitarian law and for the critical role of the Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement in providing humanitarian assistance to vulnerable people throughout the world. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022390b57ba08b34af99a10414fea452a7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022390b57ba08b34af99a10414fea452a7c\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Labour supports this bill, the Geneva Conventions (Third Protocol\u2014Red Crystal Emblem) Amendment Bill, and its progress through its final stages in the House today. I imagine that every party in the House will be in support of this legislation, which is not particularly contentious and takes a step that will be very much welcomed by the Red Cross, both in New Zealand and internationally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe bill amends two separate pieces of legislation\u2014the Geneva Conventions Act of 1958 and the Flags, Emblems, and Names Protection Act of 1981. It implements New Zealand\u2019s obligations under the protocol addition to the Geneva Conventions of 1949, and what it relates to is the adoption of an additional distinctive emblem, which is called the third protocol. Although the third protocol is referred to in the bill as the Red Crystal, most people would recognise it as a red diamond shape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EMost members of the New Zealand community would be familiar with the Red Cross and the Red Crescent. The Red Cross and the Red Crescent are emblems that are used by nations for their medical workers, including military medical workers, and humanitarian workers at times of armed conflict. The emblems give them protection against attack when they are doing work and retrieving victims from the battlefield, and so on. There is actually another emblem that the Minister of Civil Defence referred to\u2014the Red Lion and Sun\u2014which had its origins in Iran, but that has largely fallen into disuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe problem with the Red Crescent and the Red Cross is that they have come to have religious and, therefore, political connotations. That actually was not the intention in the first instance. The Red Cross, which is a red cross on a white flag, is actually the inverse of the flag of Switzerland, which is a white cross on a red flag. It was chosen because Switzerland perhaps best epitomised the role of neutrality in international affairs, and, of course, non-combatants in a battlefield situation who are rescuing injured soldiers or civilians, or are retrieving the bodies of those who have been killed, are in a neutral situation. They are not taking part in the battle that is going on, and it is really important that they have protection in their roles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI guess it is somewhat ironic that we have rules regarding whom you can kill and injure, and whom you cannot kill and injure, in the course of a battle. It would be much better if we\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022641e360ec79d498aaec1188bf6d18328\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s like caucus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224aa66919cbc435099fb70559a2168cd\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: It is like the Standing Orders, Mr Williamson. It would be much better, of course, if we did not have wars and nobody was entitled to kill and maim people in the course of fighting. But that is not the reality of the world. As long as the reality of the world is that there are conflicts, it is better to have rules surrounding those conflicts than not to have those particular rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is a party to the four Geneva Conventions of 1949 and the first and second additional protocols of 1977. These six instruments represent the core framework of international humanitarian law: regulating the conduct of armed conflict, as I have just mentioned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EGoing back to the problem with the Red Cross and the Red Crescent, there were countries in the world that, for particular reasons, were not able to adopt either of those emblems. In particular, that applied to Israel and it applied to Eritrea. Both countries expressed the need to have an emblem that would be able to win the respect and the observance of both sides in an armed conflict. There was a suggestion by Israel that it could be a red Star of David\u2014[Interruption]\u2014but that was not deemed to have the same impact on the opposing side on the battlefield, as Mr Williamson acknowledges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ESo a joint working party was set up in around about 2000 to propose a third emblem. Things move reasonably slowly in international fields\u2014and just as slowly in this House, unfortunately, with the passage of this legislation\u2014and in December 2005 the emblem of the Red Crystal, the red diamond, was finally adopted, and it was adopted by a two-thirds majority. It was seen as a practical solution, and indeed it has been a practical solution. It has enabled the Israelis and the Palestinians, the Israeli national society and the Palestinian Red Crescent Society, to join the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies and to increase cooperation between them. That, in the highly conflicted situation of the Middle East, is an important factor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe additional protocol did not go through unanimously, however. A large number of countries that were part of the Arab League and the Organization of the Islamic Conference voted against it. They voted against it not so much because they were opposed to having an additional protocol, an additional emblem; they did it in protest at Israel\u2019s perceived breach of the Geneva Conventions in the occupied Palestinian territories and the Golan Heights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E I would have to say that that is a continuing problem. In the last week, to see a decision by the Netanyahu Government to illegally settle another 3,000 Israeli citizens on occupied land, which it is not entitled to do, is a provocation. I understand why those countries symbolically opposed the additional protocol on that basis. I feel equally strongly about that. That is a provocation. It is something that stands in the way of the long-awaited peace settlement between the two sides. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EBut I do not believe that we should use that as a reason not to pass this bill today. In fact, members of both the Organization of the Islamic Conference and the Arab League implicitly acknowledged the importance of having the third emblem, welcoming the cooperation between the Israeli side and the Palestinian side in terms of their particular national societies. So although I understand the protest that has been made by those two groups of countries, I do not believe that it is grounds for opposing the adoption of the emblem, and I think the House should pass this legislation today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe second part of the bill actually extends and strengthens New Zealand\u2019s obligation to prohibit the unauthorised use of Geneva Convention emblems. It does that, of course, in the first instance, by extending the protection to the Red Crystal, but it also does it by bringing the penalties into a more realistic framework. The penalty for misuse of the Red Cross or the Red Crescent was $1,000. That is being increased tenfold, to $10,000, and, probably, that only brings it in line with inflation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee back in 2007 conducted an international treaty examination of the protocol, and it supported ratification. Three years later\u2014and it was a long time later\u2014a bill came into the House, and another 2 years have passed before we are moving to pass this legislation. Again, I would ask the National Government to look at how it manages the affairs of this House and to not hold up non-controversial legislation that all of the parties can support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThis motion should have been moved earlier, but the bill will go through its final stages today. We will then be able to ratify the protocol, and we will be able to implement our obligations under it. Sixty countries, as the Minister of Civil Defence mentioned, have already ratified it. It would be really good to see New Zealand, as a country proud of its role in international affairs, move more quickly in fields like that, so that we can be at the leading edge of ratifying things that we all agree with, rather than leaving things for the unconscionable length of time that has occurred with those two delays. There was a delay in introducing the bill and in getting the bill through the House. It has been just sitting on the Order Paper when every party in the House will probably support it. I support the passage of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa4a4ffa94be4774b9b9cb08d1a2a9ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa4a4ffa94be4774b9b9cb08d1a2a9ef\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call on the Geneva Conventions (Third Protocol\u2014Red Crystal Emblem) Amendment Bill. I am sure that all members of this House would agree that the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies should be regarded with the highest respect of just about any humanitarian organisation. It does from time to time demonstrate selfless contribution and extraordinary sacrifice, with its operatives on many occasions putting themselves into extraordinary danger for the sake of others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E The main aim of this bill is to amend the Geneva Conventions Act 1958 and the Flags, Emblems, and Names Protection Act 1981 in order to implement New Zealand\u2019s obligations under the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, which New Zealand signed on 19 June 2006 with regard to the adoption of this additional distinctive emblem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EAmending these Acts enables an additional protective emblem, with equal status to the Red Cross and Red Crescent, to be used in situations where neither of the existing emblems has the respect of both sides in an armed conflict. And I note in new schedule 7, inserted by the bill in the Geneva Conventions Act 1958, that the distinctive emblems from article 2\u2014as you may see, Mr Speaker\u2014and article 3 indicate clearly the characteristics of this emblem. I think as Mr Goff described it, most would recognise this as a diamond. It was actually described also as a lozenge. However, the major point is that the Red Crystal emblem is intended to be free from any national, religious, cultural, or political connotations, and that is obvious from the history of the genesis of this symbol coming into being. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThis bill reaffirms New Zealand\u2019s longstanding position as a supporter of international humanitarian law and the role of the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement. It is worthwhile just reiterating the background. The third protocol, of course, emanated from the original Geneva Conventions in 1949. This distinctive emblem was adopted by the States at the Geneva Conventions in 2005, and New Zealand signed the protocol in 2006. One does again wonder why the Minister of Foreign Affairs at the time, the Hon Phil Goff, did not expedite this into legislation during the course of the last Labour Government. One wonders whether he was a lazy Minister. Was he a lazy Minister? I leave the House to question this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297c6117d6a164fc9bdfd20930c31de74\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: Good question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8e4507ada9144deaadb9ac0d2df6088\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I do indeed feel somewhat cynical at the moralising that he has exhibited during the course of this morning. But it is good that this bill is now before the House as we see it, and I think it is important to remember that the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and additional Protocols I and II of 1977 are the primary source of international humanitarian law and the law of armed conflict.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E The Red Cross and Red Crescent emblems are now used in over 190 countries to protect authorised medical personnel, buildings, equipment, and chaplains during times of armed conflict. However, some countries\u2014and I think, again, that Mr Goff identified Israel and Eritrea as being two\u2014find it difficult to use these symbols because of the religious connotations. Israel itself was keen to use, through its Magen David Adom NGO, the Red Shield of David. Clearly this was unacceptable to others, and consequently the Red Crystal was settled through the conventions. This was not entirely easy. There were difficulties in getting it through, and certainly the Arab League countries did not agree. However, the overall feeling was that it was important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI think it is relevant to say that the additional emblem is needed for two main reasons. One can think of the conflict in Libya, and again in Syria, right now, where it is used for military medical personnel and authorised humanitarian workers during those sorts of conflicts that are going on as we speak. It is also used to enable national societies that are unable to adopt either of the emblems currently in use. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EAs I said, there is no doubt that it was not entirely easy getting this passed through. It would have been great to have it unanimously passed, but that was not the case. The Arab League States wanted to see some of the issues regarding the Golan Heights and the Palestine territories settled before they would agree to it, and one must hope that, with time, this will happen. I must say that I do agree with Mr Goff when I hear of the settlements occurring in East Jerusalem, which seem to me to be particularly provocative under the circumstances. The Red Crystal emblem and its introduction into this convention are a very positive move, and I support the bill in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022243b324e5f424d61ad47a409e2a5f03d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022243b324e5f424d61ad47a409e2a5f03d\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me great pleasure to rise again to speak in this debate on the Geneva Conventions (Third Protocol\u2014Red Crystal Emblem) Amendment Bill. It is something that Labour supports, obviously. In fact, there is not a party in the House, I think, that would not support this bill. Just before I proceed with a couple of comments that I want to make about the significance of the bill, I do want to go to process. For the member who has just resumed his seat, Paul Hutchison, to ask a question about whether or not the Hon Phil Goff should have progressed this legislation in 2007 or late 2005 ignores the fact that the Hon Phil Goff was not the Minister of Foreign Affairs between 2005 and 2008. So I just recommend that the member, if he is wishing to cast aspersions, gets his history right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EHaving dropped that little gem in there for the Government to gnaw at, I would like to proceed to talk about the significance of these emblems, which is something that we do all agree on, irrespective of the time delay there has been from the introduction of this bill under the Labour Government to the passage of it today. The Red Cross, Red Crescent, and Red Crystal emblems have for a long time provided protection for military medical services and relief workers in armed conflicts. The emblems are used for identification purposes. The use of the emblems is actually clearly defined in law. The use and misuse of the Red Cross, Red Crescent, and Red Crystal emblems is clearly defined. The Geneva Conventions and the additional protocols contain several articles on the emblems, and among other things they specify the use, size, purpose, and placing of the emblems, and the persons and property they protect, who can use them, what respect for the emblems entails, and the penalties for misuse. In addition to that, they require that each State party to the Geneva Conventions and their additional protocols enact legislation defining the use, and preventing the misuse, of these emblems on a national level, and that is what we are engaged in doing today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThere are two main uses of these emblems. One is protective, and the other is indicative. First, obviously, the emblems are a visible sign in armed conflict of the protection given to medical services, medical equipment, and buildings of the armed forces under international law, and that protection extends to certain humanitarian organisations working alongside the military to relieve the suffering of the wounded, prisoners, and civilians caught up in the conflict. This first use is the one that is usually referred to as protective use. Secondly, national Red Cross and Red Crescent societies around the world are allowed to use the emblems to identify themselves as part of a global network known as the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement, and this use is called the indicative use. The rules for both of these uses are very precise. As my colleague the Hon Phil Goff mentioned a moment ago, in armed conflict the protective emblem must be in red on a white background with no additions. Of course, the first of these emblems came into being in 1864 as the Red Cross: a red cross on a white background, the reversing-out of the flag of Switzerland, known for its neutrality. So the resulting symbol had the advantage of being easily produced, and it was recognisable at a distance because of its contrasting colours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EIn the years that followed, a number of national relief organisations started to be called Red Cross societies, and the indicative use of the emblem became established. The original intent of the 1864 conference, the diplomatic conference that resulted in this emblem being adopted, was to create a universal, neutral, and distinctive sign of protection used and recognised by everyone. Just over a decade later, in the 1870s during the Russo-Turkish War, the Ottoman Empire adopted the Red Crescent as its protective sign, while still recognising and respecting the Red Cross. Persia, too, at that time adopted its own sign, and in 1929 Governments formally recognised all three. The third sign\u2014and, again, the Hon Phil Goff referred to this\u2014was the old Persian sign, the Red Lion and Sun, and that lasted until 1980, when Iran dropped that symbol. So since the 1990s there had been concern about respect for the neutrality of the Red Cross or the Red Crescent in certain difficult conflicts, and in 1992 the then president of the International Committee of the Red Cross called publicly for the creation of an additional emblem devoid of any national political or religious connotation. In 2005 Governments adopted this additional protective sign, the Red Crystal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EJust today I received the latest newsletter from the New Zealand Red Cross, and I would just like to draw on that for a moment to demonstrate how critical it is that in modern times\u2014never mind the history of these emblems, but in modern times\u2014there are acceptable emblems that connote a protection and a neutrality in times of conflict. The International Humanitarian Law Newsletter, which I just received from the New Zealand Red Cross today, talks about places of current conflict: it refers to Syria, it refers to the Ivory Coast and war crimes committed there, it talks about the relentless conflict in Afghanistan, and it talks about past conflicts in Libya. These are contemporary examples of war-torn countries in which these emblems take on an immediate significance. It is imperative that those who are medics, who go in as non-combatants into war-torn areas, receive international recognition and protection. If the introduction of the Red Crystal allows any past connotations with either Christianity or Islam to be removed from the recognition of emblems, then this is a good thing. It is the neutrality and the independence of the emblems that is very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe last time I spoke on this I made a comment about emblems and how we do run our lives by emblems. Human beings respond to emblems. We know what it means when a flag is flown at half mast. That is an emblem that is recognised the world over as a sign of mourning of somebody in high office or a very celebrated person having died. We respond to emblems. It has been the case that there have been conflicts in recent times from which the humanitarian aid of the Red Cross has been prohibited, so the Red Cross has been forbidden to go into areas at times. In Burma, when great humanitarian need arose out of Cyclone Nargis a few years ago, the junta at that time refused to admit international humanitarian aid. So there are times when humanitarian need has not been recognised and adopted by Governments, and this protocol, signed by the number of countries that have signed it, gives me some hope that there can be some neutrality and there can be a recognition internationally that when people wear these emblems, they are protected and their function is recognised. So the Labour Party supports this bill unreservedly and commends it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022f057bda358504e82be1a58f460df4862\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f057bda358504e82be1a58f460df4862\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. I am pleased to take a brief call this morning in support of the Geneva Conventions (Third Protocol\u2014Red Crystal Emblem) Amendment Bill. Again, obviously, the Green Party is joining I think every other party in the House today in support of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EA lot of the history has already been covered by my colleagues, and this speech and this topic almost feel as if they are about us just actually catching up and signing off the paperwork to pass something that has already happened. So there does not feel, to me, to be a huge amount of need to go into a lot of detail. I would briefly go over\u2014or go over again\u2014what other people have said in terms of the history and the importance of this bill, though, because it is a catching-up with what happened in 2005, when the Red Cross and the Red Crescent were joined by another symbol in recognition that Israel and Eritrea were not able to use the symbols available to them to cover and protect humanitarian interventions in their countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIn fact, Israel has been quite a complicated situation, really. Because it was not able to join the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement because of its refusal to use the symbols available, America was refusing to pay its fees into the international organisation, and this had a real impact in terms of the ability of the association to fund its work. So making this change, and having each national country sign off on it, has actually had a financially positive impact for the association globally, which I am pleased to be able to support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E I would like to note, though, that even after the passing of this protocol, in terms of the Magen David Adom\u2014which is, in effect, the organisation that has come into the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement\u2014there has been ongoing debate about its use and non-use of this symbol, which has been very disappointing. In 2011 the international conference on the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement noted with regret that the 2005 agreement had not been fully implemented. It decided to continue a monitoring process in terms of Magen David Adom\u2019s use or non-use of the symbol and agreements at that time of involvement in Gaza and the West Bank. Unfortunately, in January 2012\u2014that is, this year\u2014the organisation confirmed that Magen David Adom had, in fact, agreed to stop all services within the West Bank. Rescue efforts would be officially administered by regional councils instead and would not be using the Magen David symbol, as Magen David Adom had continued to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIn effect, although we have made this international agreement to enable Israel to come into the family, to hold this neutrality that is so critically important, unfortunately it has not been following through on that. So my hope is that as more countries in the world put these protocols and acknowledgment of the Red Crystal into our national laws, there will be more of a sense of consensus around the importance of neutrality in these symbols. I think that the Hon Phil Goff\u2019s contribution of recognising, as Maryan Street also did, the history of the Red Cross\u2014that it is not a religious symbol; in fact, it came from the inverse of the Swiss flag, the symbol of neutrality\u2014is important, but that has clearly been lost. The cross is clearly seen globally as a symbol that reinforces a message of Christianity, and therefore alongside the Red Crescent, which is seen as a symbol representing Islam, has in effect made the movement for peace and neutrality politicised, and has put it into a religious construct, which is really unfortunate. So it would be wonderful to see more use of the Red Crystal, and I hope that by our passing this law today we will in some way contribute to the strengthening of neutrality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI would also just like to note\u2014I would be remiss in my job as spokesperson on women if I did not mention it\u2014that this bill also updates the language in the original Act from gender-specific language to gender-neutral language. It is important to mark that and note our progress as a country towards more full inclusion, and that for me is also a positive move in terms of a sense of a world where everyone is included and we are not being ruled by old paradigms of power. So, again, the Greens are very happy to be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022 data-id=\u00222f41d937995e48ddb3d0dc3ea253f3d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f41d937995e48ddb3d0dc3ea253f3d7\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E Like other speakers, I am very pleased to rise in support of the Geneva Conventions (Third Protocol\u2014Red Crystal Emblem) Amendment Bill at its second reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003ECan I also make mention, as the son of a returned serviceman, of the neutrality that has been much spoken of. There have been some very eloquent narratives today. The Hon Maryan Street had a very precise, I would suggest, history of the Red Cross and the Red Crescent, and articulated it very well. I thank her for that contribution. In response to that, I say that the neutrality of those emblems and the ability of people to be able to go into areas of conflict in a neutral way for humanitarian work are essential in a civilised society, I would suggest. To have a situation where, potentially, the longstanding neutrality of the Red Cross or the Red Crescent is being challenged in certain conflicts in the world on the basis that it may have been contaminated in some way by religious or political interference would be a huge travesty for New Zealand and for the world. So anything that we can do as, I guess, a small island nation, as far away as we are from the centre of most of these international conflicts at the moment, is something that we should do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EWith those comments and the comments of the Minister of Civil Defence in the address at the beginning of this debate, it is a great pleasure to have been part of this process. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u00226b20ec92aff04108821684a2e4784082\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b20ec92aff04108821684a2e4784082\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I take a call on behalf of New Zealand First on the Geneva Conventions (Third Protocol\u2014Red Crystal Emblem) Amendment Bill. New Zealand First, alongside all other parties, will support this bill. We are somewhat concerned that it is taking so long to get through the process of this House and that this was originally signed up to in 2005\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b04cc30d835423bb8ee8919df67c68a\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Who was the Minister at the time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231960ce7fad849cfa2402ac9107939a5\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure. I was not here in the House in 2005.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277ac5eb4baf14a328ddcd4a4c6fc3a1b\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebe0208dfc2548f28fdb5474aec38881\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know; I cannot confirm that. What I can say is that, as I mentioned in the House last night, the Government has 64 Government bills on the Order Paper, many of which have been sitting around for years and years and years, gathering dust, sitting on shelves in various places, and going nowhere quickly. This is another case of a bill that should not have taken all these years to get to this point. This has the full support of every member of this House and is a no-brainer. Of course we would be supporting the Red Cross, the Red Crescent, and the Red Crystal movement internationally in its endeavours to bring humanitarian aid, support, and care to people in the most difficult situations in some of the worst trouble spots of the world. In that respect can we just say let us not in this House see this sort of thing occur again where something can be signed in 2005 but the legislation takes until 2012 to finally be passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EIn terms of the Red Cross, the Red Crescent, and the Red Crystal movement, it operates in 188 countries around the world and has over 97 million volunteers, members, and staff worldwide. It is a tremendous movement, a tremendous organisation, including such large numbers of volunteers as well as those staff working for them. Every night on the news, virtually without exception, where there are major areas of conflict around the world, we are regularly reminded of the good work that the Red Cross does in many of these conflict situations. It is there to protect human life and health, to ensure respect for all human beings, and to prevent and alleviate human suffering without any discrimination based on nationality, race, sex, religious beliefs, class, or political opinion. We are very happy to support this. We are somewhat concerned about the delays, but we are very happy to support this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThe Red Cross also has an illustrious history in terms of receiving the Nobel Peace Prize. It was awarded it back in 1917 during the First World War for its incredible humane efforts in the First World War. Again during the Second World War in 1944 it was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, and again in 1963 it received the Nobel Peace Prize. I would go so far as to say that having received it three times, the Red Cross in this current millennium, in this current century, certainly would be worthy of receiving it again for all the work it does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EWe commend this. We believe this is just a practical solution to those areas where obviously a Christian cross or a Muslim crescent are not appropriate, where this provides a middle ground to ensure that those people who work under the symbol have a level of protection, and people who are out there know that they can turn to this symbol, turn to the Red Cross, turn to the Red Crescent, and know that they will receive assistance. New Zealand First supports this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1d3472ab0a148c2a96a63652c2b4c6a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1d3472ab0a148c2a96a63652c2b4c6a\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak in the second reading of the Geneva Conventions (Third Protocol\u2014Red Crystal Emblem) Amendment Bill. It amends the Geneva Conventions Act 1958. It proposes a new emblem, the Red Crystal or red diamond shape, which provides an alternative option to other emblems such as the Red Cross and the Red Crescent. These emblems will all give protection to personnel or organisations that use or wear them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe Red Cross and Red Crescent are emblems that are now used in over 190 countries, but the fact is that there are some countries that find it difficult to use the Red Cross or the Red Crescent because they are considered to have religious connotations. So this third option, the Red Crystal emblem, will hopefully be satisfactory to those countries. It means that authorised personnel, buildings, and equipment during times of armed conflict will have the protection that they should have. I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u00227a41263a1c2749feb965c22f8b6b2359\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a41263a1c2749feb965c22f8b6b2359\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Thank you very much for inviting me to speak on this fine piece of legislation, the Geneva Conventions (Third Protocol\u2014Red Crystal Emblem) Amendment Bill, which has drawn unanimous support from around the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this legislation has been well canvassed by the members who have spoken before me. Ultimately what this comes down to is allowing the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement to be able to do its job wherever it goes around the world. It is, I suppose, in itself a symbol of exactly how powerful symbols and language are no matter what culture we talk about around the world. The fact that the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement has not been welcome in some parts of the world because of the symbols that are used and the connotations that go with them really to me underlines just how important language and symbology still are even in this day and age. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EOf course, what we know is that the original Red Cross was developed as the inverse of the flag of Switzerland, a nation known for\u2014a symbol, if you will, of\u2014peace and neutrality. That was the original meaning behind the Red Cross. But it is only natural, I would think, in non-Christian countries to recognise the cross as a Christian symbol. The first addition to the Red Cross that was made was the Red Crescent during the Russo-Turkish Wars between 1876 and 1878. That was picked up by the Ottoman Empire, and the Red Crescent then spread amongst the Muslim world. But, of course, the world is not simply a dichotomy of Christianity and Islam. There are many other religions and many other movements out there, and so what we are trying to achieve here is to provide a symbol that can cross cultural borders as well as geographic borders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIt is not the first attempt to come up with a third protocol. Other members have mentioned the Red Shield\u2014or the Red Star\u2014of David, which, of course, really only works in one country and works for one country, and has exactly the same connotations as the Red Cross and the Red Crescent have for many other nations and religions. There have been a number of different proposals over the years. The red flame was proposed by Siamese delegates back in 1899. In Persia we have talked about the red lion and sun symbol. A red sun symbol was once proposed. A red lamb symbol, which perhaps we would be quite comfortable with here in New Zealand, was proposed by the Republic of Congo. India proposed a red wheel, Lebanon proposed a red cedar, Sudan proposed a red rhinoceros, and Syria proposed a red palm. This is not the total number of different proposals there has been over the years, but it is a small segment of them. It just shows that this has been an issue for a long time\u2014trying to find additional symbols that overcome the problem faced by the Red Cross and the Red Crescent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EInterestingly, and I think this talks about how symbols and language can change over time, in 1922 a Red Swastika Society was proposed. That was proposed in China during the warlord era. Of course, after the 1930s the swastika\u2019s meaning changed dramatically and probably would no longer be acceptable today. So, you know, things can change a lot over time, and we have to be cognisant of that. I think in that way the Red Crystal, or diamond shape, is one that hopefully will stand the test of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EBut language is important, and symbols are important. They have real meaning. When you get the language wrong or you get the symbology wrong, that can be quite offensive. Recently we have had another red symbol, and that is the red shirt, the gay red shirt that Mr Key introduced into modern language here in New Zealand. I see members opposite grimacing at this. They ought to. They should be embarrassed about the new symbol of the gay red shirt. But this is hugely important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253065ecd16ab40e69ab98d897fd84540\u0022\u003ENikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: What about John Tamihere\u2019s comments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9789e429b314d4087d8d6c3857802de\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Nikki Kaye, could you repeat that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022413ca5578a7c4d50b56591f5b12121d2\u0022\u003ENikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: What about John Tamihere\u2019s comments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d68b94176f6749f3845000b918557725\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: John Tamihere\u2019s comments? I find them deeply offensive as well. I do find those comments offensive. I want to talk about the symbology around a red shirt. When you use a symbol like that, and then you go on to say that what the Prime Minister meant by using the word \u201Cgay\u201D was \u201Cweird\u201D\u2014he thinks that the term \u201Cgay\u201D means \u201Cweird\u201D\u2014that is powerful. It has meaning in exactly the same way that a cross or a crescent can be interpreted differently by people who might see a different meaning in what was originally suggested, in the same way people were offended, deeply offended, by the Prime Minister\u2019s statement that wearing a red shirt meant that a person was gay, and that being gay meant that they were weird. I think we have to call that out because it is not just about\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc7f864795a94d148570cd461b796e7a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Can I just remind members that it is quite in order to interject on the person who is speaking\u2014that is normal practice\u2014but it is not acceptable that members interject on each other, especially when they do not have the floor. If you want to take part in the debate, you are welcome to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022451ecfcd54de460e91d638281530fe44\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Language and symbols are powerful. Our Prime Minister is our premier spokesperson around the world. He needs to be cognisant of the fact that when he uses language and symbols in the way that he did, that undermines his ability to represent New Zealand as a peace-loving nation that does not believe in discrimination and that does not single people out for discrimination. That is what this symbol is all about, and we should be supporting this, because we are known around the world as a nation that has been at the forefront of peacekeeping, maintaining peace, and trying to eliminate discrimination. New Zealand has a proud history in the UN and in other fora for being a nation that leads the charge against discrimination, and it undermines that reputation and that history when our Prime Minister uses that type of language. I think that needs to be identified. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E But, as I say, this legislation is a bill that is being supported right around the House. Shane Ardern said that we have to do our small part as a small nation to reinforce the message behind this: that we want the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement to be able to operate across borders and across cultures. I think that actually it is much more than that. The world looks to nations like New Zealand that have such a good record on these matters to show leadership, and perhaps it would have been better if we had been able to pass this legislation a little bit earlier so that we could have been amongst the world\u2019s leaders on this issue, but it is good that we are finally catching up and passing this legislation. Labour wholeheartedly supports this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u00220c04d644ffc64fccba3430d0488b9d62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c04d644ffc64fccba3430d0488b9d62\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E After that contribution on linguistics and a certain amount of gay banter, I want to bring the debate back to a very serious issue, and that is that around the world, in southern Sudan, Syria, Afghanistan, C\u00F4te d\u2019Ivoire\u2014and there has been a bitter, nasty, and bloody dispute in southern Thailand, near the border with Malaysia, for some years\u2014men, women, and children are suffering. Men, women, and children are dying or being grievously wounded. This is not just background noise on the global television screens; this is people suffering. The Geneva Conventions (Third Protocol\u2014Red Crystal Emblem) Amendment Bill sets out to address issues in the many conflicts around the world where the combatants, those involved, or civilians may not readily recognise the long-established symbols of the Red Cross and the Red Crescent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EThe bill, obviously, reaffirms New Zealand\u2019s longstanding position as a supporter of international humanitarian law, and, of course, reaffirms the role of the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement in providing humanitarian assistance to vulnerable people throughout the world, but, in addition, as we have heard eloquently described by previous speakers, provides an additional protective symbol with equal status to those well-known Red Cross and Red Crescent symbols, which can be used in situations where neither of those has the respect of sides in the armed conflict. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EThe bill contains the legislative provisions needed for New Zealand to become a party to the third additional protocol to the conventions of 1949. As we have said, the Red Crystal is intended to be free from any national, religious, cultural, or political connotations. The aforementioned cross and crescent symbols provide safe havens in time of conflict and are recognised by 190 countries around the world as protecting medical personnel, material, equipment, and buildings. Of course, they also serve to identify the international bodies. So this Red Crystal will strengthen the protection of victims in conflicts where neither of those existing emblems has the respect of both sides in an armed conflict. It is a very necessary bill. It is a very important bill, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdc4e957b6a74826b4c3bbe85f9a56f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdc4e957b6a74826b4c3bbe85f9a56f8\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I just advise members that the next call is a split call, so the members participating will be given the bell with 1 minute remaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022d07a3de6033c4c8b80d9fcf0b99f5437\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d07a3de6033c4c8b80d9fcf0b99f5437\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to take a short call in this debate on the Geneva Conventions (Third Protocol\u2014Red Crystal Emblem) Amendment Bill. We support this bill. It is important that both the Red Cross and the Red Crescent organisations can operate effectively and with the protection of humanitarian neutrality in conflict zones. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI want to talk just very briefly about this issue of humanitarian neutrality, because that is the backdrop for this debate and the move to add a third protocol to the Geneva Conventions and allow the use of this third symbol, the Red Crystal emblem. The risk to humanitarian neutrality is something that has become a part of an urgent debate over the last 20 years or so and I think it really links to the proliferation of civil conflicts that we have seen around the world after the end of the Cold War in places like Somalia, Kosovo, the Congo, Sudan, Azerbaijan, and, most recently, Syria, to name just a few. We have seen more and more conflicts that are intra-State, often between non-State parties, and alongside that an increasing militarisation of aid as both State military forces and also non-State military forces have tried to use aid as a tool and as a kind of bargaining chip of war. The effect of that has been really to corrode the perception of the neutrality of humanitarian workers, and that really goes to the heart of one of the key principles of the Geneva Conventions and much of the development of international humanitarian law over five or six decades. So it is essential that we, the New Zealand Government and the international community, protect and support the work of the Red Cross and Red Crescent organisations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWhat this bill seeks to do is allow New Zealand to ratify the third protocol, which establishes this third protective emblem, which will be worn on the backs and on the uniforms of medical personnel, aid workers, and humanitarian workers in conflict zones all around the world. One of the interesting things is that the reason that this third emblem is needed is that there are a couple of countries, in particular, that find both the Red Cross and the Red Crescent difficult. Israel is one of those countries, as other speakers have noted. The particular religious and political make-up in Israel and Palestine means that both the Red Cross and the Red Crescent are problematic. Eritrea is the other example, the other country. It is in the Horn of Africa, in one of the most volatile parts of Africa. Eritrea is a country that has come out of a long period of civil war against the Ethiopian State and is a country that is basically split between Orthodox Christian and Muslim populations, and it has a Government that is intensely conscious of how vulnerable it is to political instability and religious and ethnic conflict. The Eritrean Government is unwilling to allow either the Red Cross or the Red Crescent to be used in that country. So this symbol is a way around that problem, and there may well be other examples of countries that would benefit from, or would prefer to use, this third protective emblem, the Red Crystal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI note just in passing that this bill has taken a long time to get to this second reading stage. It has been treated as something of an orphan by this National-led Government and it has been nearly 4 years, as a number of colleagues have already noted, that it has been languishing on the Order Paper. That is a shame. It is a shame and it reflects, I think, a low priority that the Government has given this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIt is unfortunate that the area of foreign affairs is one of the portfolios where I think New Zealanders feel most disappointed and let down by the lack of leadership by this Government. The languishing of this bill for so long is really only a very small example. Overall, the leadership in the areas of foreign affairs has been extremely disappointing. You know, the most notable thing that this foreign affairs Minister has achieved is the kind of botched handling of the restructuring of his department and his ministry. In the area of humanitarian policy and disarmament policy we have gone backwards, to be honest. We saw the disestablishment of the post of Minister for Disarmament and Arms Control, and the abdication of any kind of leadership by New Zealand in the whole area of disarmament, which is an area where this country has a proud tradition of activism and leadership in the international community. It is sad that this Government has moved back from that position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EOne of the most graphic illustrations of that lack of commitment and lack of leadership was the attitude shown by National Party MPs when we debated my member\u2019s bill a few months back, the Depleted Uranium (Prohibition) Bill. It was treated with scorn and contempt and voted down by members on the National benches in spite of the fact that only a few days ago at the United Nations a huge majority of countries voted in the General Assembly to support a resolution affirming the need for a precautionary approach in relation to uranium weapons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E I just wanted to say that this is a bill that Labour supports. We are glad to see it finally put to bed. Its passage will now allow the Government to ratify the third protocol to the Geneva Conventions, and New Zealand will join a long list of countries that have officially incorporated this protocol. It will allow the Red Crystal to take its place alongside the Red Cross and the Red Crescent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022709f721a35c84898982aa18ba89c7bb1\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022789485f695d24866abc792a5feacb872\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022789485f695d24866abc792a5feacb872\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Deputy Leader of the House) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: I move, That the Geneva Conventions (Third Protocol\u2014Red Crystal Emblem) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223f872c2eec5c49e291fda3bfbfbd9453\u0022\u003ESubordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cfa86acbf2fb4af591f6e5bdef2cbd53\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00228ae18c56d0654ac5ad31116a21fb228d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ae18c56d0654ac5ad31116a21fb228d\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Deputy Leader of the House) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Leader of the House: I move, That the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill be now read a second time. The Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill confirms and validates 16 orders or regulations made under seven different Acts. The bill must be enacted by 31 December 2012 to avoid subordinate legislation lapsing. The bill was introduced on 30 August 2012 and referred to the Regulations Review Committee on 11 September. The committee asked the five relevant Government agencies responsible for administering the legislation to explain why confirmation or validations of the orders is warranted. The committee was satisfied with the responses it received and presented its report on 26 October, recommending that the bill be passed without amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe committee has noted that the current process for considering subordinate legislation bills allows for only limited scrutiny, and has recommended that these bills be introduced earlier in the year than has been usual in recent years. The Government will work to improve the process for considering this type of bill when progressing the next subordinate legislation bill. I thank the select committee for its thoughtful consideration of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u002241d9e9a5fb0f4ee989d84124e23ea84f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241d9e9a5fb0f4ee989d84124e23ea84f\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Labour\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill, but I suspect that there are a number of people out there listening today who are wondering what on earth a Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbef7a36e7564df28549decf691210bd\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Thousands of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223454d887e0a6427195fa7313ff898ddf\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Thousands of people are probably wondering what it is. It is a very grand title indeed. So I thought, perhaps, I would give just a little explanation so that they could follow what this debate is. Subordinate legislation bills are introduced every year to confirm and/or to validate what is called subordinate legislation. What is subordinate legislation? Well, in fact, it is regulations and orders that are made by this Parliament. The purpose of this bill is to confirm that subordinate legislation\u2014in this case, regulations and orders\u2014is able to continue, so that it does not lapse. If it has sunset clauses, we confirm that it can continue to carry on and continue in force. This is something that we do each year, and we bring in a bill. Parliament is the one that decides on this, because this is an area where Parliament has already decided that it does not just allow Cabinet to make decisions in terms of the executive making regulations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThis particular bill is covering seven Acts, confirming regulations in them. What are they? The Animal Products Act 1999, the Commodities Levies Act 1990, the Customs and Excise Act 1996, our New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001 and Social Security Act 1964, the Road User Charges Act 2012, and the War Pensions Act 1954. This bill actually covers those six main areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EYou might wonder what sorts of issues are covered in those particular Acts. Well, if you take the Commodities Levies Act 1990, it makes orders about commodity levies on things like navel oranges, kiwifruit, nashi pears, arable crops, cereal silage, maize, asparagus, and so on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThen, if you look at what happens under the orders being made under the Customs and Excise Act, you will see that orders are being made on tobacco products and the indexation of tobacco products. The indexation of excise duty is brought about by confirmation of these orders. This is an area that I have particular interest in, because we know that if we do have an increased price for tobacco, we also have a corresponding reduction in the consumption of tobacco. Of course, there are those out there who think that the earth is still flat and that tobacco has absolutely nothing to do with cancer. There are others who have proven over many years that tobacco cigarettes\u2014no matter how many you smoke\u2014are going to be bad for you. The first one is bad for you, and so are the 60 you smoke every day. And so we do know that increasing the excise on tobacco is likely to lead to people stopping smoking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EIt has been asked of me over the years why we would want to penalise the poor by putting up the price of tobacco. My answer is: why would we let tobacco companies kill poor people? That is what this product does. It is one of the only products that if you take it is likely to lead to your death. So I totally support raising the excise duty on tobacco, and I would imagine that there are very few people who would be opposed to that. It also deals with the excise duty on alcoholic beverages, but amongst that we also have motor spirits and toothfish, so it is quite a broad-ranging order indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe other one I wanted to talk about is the road-user charges of 2012. This increases road-user charges through an order. This really came out of an experience I had as Minister of Transport. I see Mr Colin King smiling over there; he probably remembers the event very well. You see, when I was Minister of Transport I decided that I would increase road-user charges because there had been one increase in road-user charges on vehicles over 3.5 tonnes since 1989. As you know, road-user charges are the way we ensure that those who drive heavy vehicles help to pay for their share of the roads. I am sure the member for Invercargill will be very aware of the damage that big vehicles do to roads, and particularly local roads down in an area where you have a lot of farming, and you have big vehicles on the road, and the damage they do in cutting out those roads\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f938344cbf848c0a678a6014cc8c40b\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Especially in Southland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9516d884c544f41ab310be30de15f7d\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014particularly in Southland. In fact, there is a major problem in Southland because the funding that goes into the maintenance of local roads in our rural areas has been cut by this Government. You will see the results of that in the years to come, because if you do not maintain your roads and you do not have enough money coming in through your road-user charges and other avenues, you will pay for it in the future when it costs you much more to go back to square one to repair your infrastructure. So road-user charges are the way that we get heavy vehicles to contribute to their cost. In fact, it is my view that they do not completely pay for the damage that they actually do on the roads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWhen I was Minister, I decided to increase the road-user charges, and it was actually quite a modest increase in road-user charges\u2014for example, a typical 5-tonne truck would pay an additional $53 every 10,000 kilometres, while a 23-tonne four-axle truck was expected to pay around an additional $198 for 10,000 kilometres. It made up about 10 percent of a truck\u2019s total operating costs. So you can see that the impact it would have had on freight was quite small. What happened because I increased it\u2014one increase since 1989? We had the truckies go on strike. They blocked the roads around New Zealand in big convoys of trucks. They did not like to have an increase in road-user charges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ESo I then said, OK, we would undertake a review in the way we set road-user charges, in terms of the notification and what notice is given that the road-user charges will go up. One of the reasons that there was not notification on the particular occasion when I was Minister was that the year before I had increased it very marginally, and had given notice. Within 3 days, there was something like $21 million of forward buying of road-user charges certificates to try to avoid the increase. It is sort of like going out and filling up your car with petrol if you think the excise duty is going to be put up on Budget night, and hoping that you have got a windfall because you have avoided having to pay the extra cost. Of course, there was a famous occasion in this Parliament when one of the Opposition members of the National Party, when we were in Government in the 1980s, decided\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224deaeeaa03f3434f86fbe8f56aeca0a1\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Who was it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274ad91208f8f4aa3ad85114e310ef57b\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I will not name him\u2014that petrol excise was bound to go up that night in the Budget. He rushed out and he filled up his car, rubbing his hands with glee, only to find the excise duty was put down and in fact he made a loss. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EBut what came out of my experience in road-user charges is giving notice of setting. This is what came out of that review, and under this order it is set at a particular time and there is enough notice for people to know that it is going to be set, but also mechanisms are in place so there cannot be a whole lot of forward buying to avoid having to pay what is a legitimate cost of vehicles on the road. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThis is a standard bill that we have before the House. It validates orders and regulations that are made by this Parliament, and Labour supports the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022c72ed6fa6a024170b0101e8a6ab2832f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c72ed6fa6a024170b0101e8a6ab2832f\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to add my contribution to the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill. I hope that all members of the House support the passage of this bill. It is a small but important bill that validates and confirms orders and regulations under a wide range of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe bill is considered every year in order to prevent any of the items of delegated legislation from lapsing. The orders and regulations of this bill are generally technical, although we have heard a very eloquent speech from the Hon Annette King and have heard about the variety of things that are in this particular piece of legislation. We have got seven commodity levies to five orders under the Customs and Excise Act. We also, as has been mentioned by Annette King as well, have a set of regulations made under the Road User Charges Act confirmed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThis bill should not take up the House\u2019s time unduly, but it is important that we give the same level of careful attention to this as we do to every bill. I am pleased to support this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002264c41943c0b84820ad058d0433e49f49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264c41943c0b84820ad058d0433e49f49\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure and somewhat of a surprise to take a call on the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill. But, as all of the speakers who have spoken so far have indicated, this is a significant bill in the sense that although it has a name that sounds innocuous, if not deadly dull, it does actually cover some matters of significance to New Zealanders. As my colleague Annette King has noted, a bill like this effectively just allows the process of laws and regulations to carry on without having to go through specific legislation for each of them, but where there are levies or consequential actions of legislation, this bill allows those to be continued, validated, and confirmed, as is noted here. But the subject matter of those is, indeed, significant, and my colleague Annette King has mentioned a couple of those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is quite notable around the question of tobacco and alcohol that using this mechanism is a much more sensible way of being able to manage the ongoing nature of those levies, rather than, as she noted, the late-night Budget night activities of people desperately finding their way to sources of petrol and cigarettes, for fear of what might happen. I did think the story that Annette King told about the National Party backbencher of the 1980s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263ce5d39f2c448c38beae06d642f1a3b\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: It was a Wellington member, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8d2da24ae2449eb992564cb48424cc7\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: A Wellington member? We are getting a little more information now about just who this person might be. But that particular member who did that perhaps epitomises that the National Party still has not quite worked out how to do its sums, has not caught up with what goes on, when it comes to the change in the system. Thinking that it was planning ahead, but getting it wrong\u2014that is the National Party through and through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6472e0364fe408792f8950939220a3a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Sounds like David Cunliffe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223644a25f1c444960904e3a3e9f1e0dd8\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Jonathan Coleman is interjecting about people being able to do their numbers. I do not think \u201CThe Maestro\u201D from Mount Albert should be talking about getting his numbers right. Jonathan Coleman is one person who, when it comes to adding up numbers, should just keep quiet, in my view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn addition to the Customs and Excise Act changes that Annette King has mentioned, I just wanted to speak briefly on what is clause 10 of the bill, which proposes some changes around the New Zealand superannuation and retirement income rates. This is an area where we have finally seen some action from the National Party, albeit action that is virtually automated on this matter, but certainly ongoing attention to the question of the sustainability of our superannuation has been severely lacking. John Key has continually said that it is not his responsibility to try to deal with these matters, because nothing will occur in terms of the lack of sustainability of the scheme for 10, 15, or 20 years. Although an automated increase as is contained in this bill might be useful, what would be really useful from this Government is if it took seriously the challenge of the sustainability of superannuation in New Zealand, if it actually decided that it was worth thinking about something beyond a 3-year electoral cycle, and if it looked at what we need to do as a country to ensure that New Zealanders are looked after in their retirement. So simply rolling over provisions extending out the rates and benefits within an Act might be one thing. What we would like to see is this Government taking seriously the challenge of providing superannuation into the future for the range of New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe all know in this House that the cost of superannuation will soon exceed the education budget, and we actually need to be taking seriously how we as a country, looking forward to the next generations and the retirement of the baby boomers, will have sustainable superannuation. Putting the head in the sand, as the National Government is doing\u2014the \u201Costrich economics\u201D approach\u2014is simply not good enough. We need a Government that is prepared to plan for the future, to plan for 20 years out, because that is the responsibility we as parliamentarians are charged with\u2014not just dealing with what is in front of us today but ensuring that tomorrow and in the future we have a sustainable superannuation scheme that can allow New Zealanders to live with dignity in retirement. At the moment the Government has its head stuck in the sand. The only thing it is prepared to do is what is virtually automatic, which is to increase these rates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThere are many other matters in this bill that I am sure my colleagues will refer to in their speeches. We of course support this bill because it is about the efficient running of Government, but the Government needs to ensure that the substantive matters covered in this bill are dealt with in a proper way and with the kind of vigour that New Zealanders would expect from a Government that actually has an eye to the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e80cdea1362a49feaec1c0ccc77a3b6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e80cdea1362a49feaec1c0ccc77a3b6d\u0022\u003EJULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. I rise to take a very short call on the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill, which the Green Party will be supporting. As with these sorts of bills from other years, as many speakers have mentioned already today, it just consists of very technical regulations and orders that are extremely uncontroversial. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe Regulations Review Committee\u2019s correspondence showed that all relevant departments considered it necessary to have the regulations in question confirmed or validated. If confirming these regulations will assist with the proper functioning of departments, then it is definitely most worthwhile to support the bill. So it was no great surprise to see that the Regulations Review Committee recommended it be passed without amendment, and we join the committee in thanking the relevant departments for their assistance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWhat was more interesting was the recommendation by the committee that the Government examine the viability of introducing bills seeking confirmation and/or validation of subordinate legislation earlier in the calendar year than has been usual in recent years. I think this seems like a very sensible recommendation. If we are going to go through this process every year, it is worth allowing the committees more time to undertake serious scrutiny of the technical issues surrounding the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIt seems to be that more can be substantively accomplished through consideration at the select committee\u2014at least in the first instance\u2014than in a first reading debate. Of course, as others have noted, the annual nature of this process is not necessarily desirable. It is good to see a streamlined debate recommended in the case of these confirmation and validation bills. But that does not necessarily mean that we are still operating as efficiently as we might otherwise do. Charles Chauvel in his speech at the first reading made the very good point that this process undertaken annually is probably not a very efficient use of the House\u2019s time. As he said, it would behove us to try to enact primary legislation that does not require taking time out of the business of the House each year to have bits of it confirmed. If there are major issues with a piece of legislation, we can always deal with that in a more robust way than this yearly exercise makes room for. It seems more efficient to delegate more time for the Regulations Review Committee to scrutinise these sorts of provisions in the course of its business, rather than this slightly onerous procedure that we have now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI note that other speakers have referred to the changes to the road-user charges. Part of this bill is specifying the rates of road-user charges for distance licences for road-user charge vehicles. Interestingly, the Government\u2019s financial statements are out today, and they show that there was a significantly lower tax take from indirect taxes. That was primarily because of the road-user charges, which were $73 million lower than forecast. So what this suggests is that actually the Government\u2019s most recent change to the road-user charges regime has not delivered the revenue that was expected. That is, in part, probably because road use is down. It has been down for 5 or 6 years. It has not been growing, so there is less revenue coming in from road-user charges and from petrol taxes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIt seems in this particular case that the changes that were made to the road-user charges scheme maybe were very optimistic in terms of the revenue that they would raise. This is going to pose a significant issue for this Government, which, of course, has very, very ambitious highway-building plans that it intends to fund from road-user charges and petrol taxes, which, of course, probably are not going to deliver enough revenue. So now the Government is looking to creative borrowing techniques like public-private partnerships and getting us into some really long-term expensive loans to pay for its motorways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI would expect that next year we may well be seeing an update to the Road User Charges Act, hopefully, increasing the rates of road-user charges, because, after all of this work that we have just done, it seems that the Government has not got it right and is not going to be getting enough revenue in. It probably should be revisiting its spending priorities, because the spending priorities just do not match up with the demand that is out there in the market. Obviously, if you are making investments for the next decade or two, one would want those investments to be supportive of the sorts of economic development that we are actually going to see in that time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EAside from that, I do not have much to add. This bill raises no major issues of policy for us. We will be happy to see it pass, although I do expect that we are going to have to see an update to the road-user charges rates in a very short time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI would like to thank the committee for its careful consideration of the process, and extend particular thanks to Mr Chauvel, who I think has raised very good points about the process, and about the opportunities to improve the process and make it a little more streamlined and efficient. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u002206fdb4f0142341ea871f2b9f102cf938\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206fdb4f0142341ea871f2b9f102cf938\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call during the second reading of the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill. It is appropriate that we actually do have this tool by which Parliament can approve this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EFor a brief moment I will look at commodity levies. They are a process whereby levy payers contribute to the performance of various functions of organisations that they have chosen to support, and that can vary. There are constitutions that back up those organisations, whether they be Beef and Lamb or a horticultural organisation. On that basis, it is very important that those people who are paying the levy have a say as to whether those levies continue or not. That having been proven and supported by the Regulations Review Committee, it is then appropriate that we have this piece of legislation coming through the House so that we validate these regulations again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EOn that basis, it is a pleasure to support this bill. We look forward to it reaching through the Committee stage and the third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u0022eac43b6603474f89aeffc489ace15de4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eac43b6603474f89aeffc489ace15de4\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First supports this year\u2019s Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill. Amongst other things, the bill would validate this year\u2019s superannuation rate order. This will confirm an automatic increase in the rate of New Zealand superannuation as set out in schedule 2 of the Social Security (Rates of Benefits and Allowances) Order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EFor people living entirely on New Zealand superannuation in New Zealand, this will, of course, be welcome, but it is, in fact, hardly enough for a reasonable retirement income for people these days. The rates of increase in power charges, council rates, insurance premiums, and many other basic living expenses indicate that New Zealand superannuation is simply not keeping up with the cost of living. Over the years successive Governments have, in fact, whittled away the New Zealand superannuation entitlement one way or the other. And now I see that Labour wants to increase the age of eligibility from 65 to 67, which is not something that New Zealand First would ever support and which I am sure baby boomers and those looking forward to retirement at the age of 65\u2014especially those who actually need to retire at 65\u2014would not support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe Government, of course, has not shown its hand on this issue or on superannuation issues generally, and, as a result, there is much speculation in the community about what will happen to superannuation in the future. Baby boomers are likely to get a bad deal whichever of the major parties succeeds in 2014, and I and New Zealand First believe that that amounts to a breach of the social contract. This system is based on taxation and it is based on superannuation being available at 65 and at a rate that equates to at least two-thirds of the average wage. We in New Zealand First do not want to see either of the major parties, or the New Zealand Government generally, resile from that social contract. We think that that is wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EIn fact, New Zealand First is the only party that can be relied upon to keep the retirement age at 65 with no means testing. You certainly could not rely on those people opposite when it comes to superannuation. The Government has not shown its hand, but that means only that it is not being upfront about what it really wants as far as superannuation is concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is absolutely certain about 65 years being the age of eligibility and no means testing. And, when possible, New Zealand First would increase the rate of superannuation by 1 or 2 percentage points in relation to the average wage, to recognise the hardship that people living entirely on superannuation are now in from the age of 65. We believe that it is affordable well into the future if priorities are well ordered and there is real growth in the economy, but we do think much more is needed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe issues of overseas pensions and eligibility for immigrants need to be addressed. Immigrants resident for at least 10 years get full New Zealand superannuation, even though they may have made little or no contribution to the New Zealand economy, whereas people who work 45 years in New Zealand will get exactly the same. That does not seem right to us. And then there is the issue of returning expatriates\u2014what is called the silver tsunami\u2014those 1 million people living overseas, half a million of whom live in Australia. Even if a relatively small percentage of those people come back to New Zealand, the impact on the New Zealand superannuation liability is going to be very significant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E To address these issues I have a member\u2019s bill in the ballot system, which is entitled the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Pro Rata Entitlement) Amendment Bill, and I would encourage the Government and all members to have a look at it. It means that migrants and expatriates would get New Zealand superannuation only according to their period of residence in New Zealand, and that is something that I think needs to be urgently addressed in this country. By addressing those issues relating to the entitlement rates for migrants and returning expatriates we can make a major contribution to assist with the economic sustainability of New Zealand superannuation, we can therefore improve the rate of New Zealand superannuation for those people who rely on it entirely, and, especially, we can retain the age of 65 years for eligibility for the future, permanently and with no means testing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First does support this bill, but also encourages a much more comprehensive review of New Zealand superannuation than simply confirming schedule 2 of the order, which confirms the automatic increase for superannuation this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00222411f81cec8c474d9e331ad85ff7feb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222411f81cec8c474d9e331ad85ff7feb8\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to be able to stand and take a short call and to join with members from across the House in supporting this Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill in its second reading. As others have said, this is a bill that confirms and validates various orders and regulations that need to be confirmed by our Parliament. It is a bill that is a formal and technical requirement. It is an annual requirement, and it is one that, even though it is a small bill with a quite grand name, is an important part of our constitutional framework. Therefore, it is a great pleasure, as I said, to stand in support of this bill, which, as I say, has broad support across the House. I commend the bill to the House and look forward to its progress with vigour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00221823890c35c44f10b8a7d7977e00266a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221823890c35c44f10b8a7d7977e00266a\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E Labour is supporting this Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill. Why? Because this is the high point of John Key\u2019s bold and energetic effort to build a brighter future for New Zealand. It is the sharp end, this bill, of National\u2019s programme to transform the New Zealand economy and tackle the big issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EFor anyone who has just tuned in to this debate, my apologies. I want to explain that the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill is a bill that will prevent the lapse or expiry of a number of other bits of legislation that have sunset clauses built into them. It deals with such things as the Animal Products Act, the Commodity Levies Act, the Customs and Excise Act, the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act, road-user charges, and the War Pensions Act. What it does, essentially, is roll over levies, rates of taxation, and rates of payment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI wanted to follow up, really, on the comments of a couple of other colleagues who have talked about road-user charges, which is one of the bits of subordinate legislation that are covered by this bill. It is worth noting that, as well as rolling over the current set of road-user charges, as this bill does, at this time the Government is actively pursuing raising road-user charges and raising the petrol excise as part of a mad scramble to try to find alternative and additional ways to fund its State highway building programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe Government has announced that Transmission Gully is going to be funded through a public-private partnership, which, as has been stated, is really just an elaborate way\u2014and an expensive way, I should add\u2014of borrowing over a period of time. It is a way of front-ending a huge piece of roading expenditure without having to fund it up front out of the National Land Transport Fund. The Government, as well as making it easier to do public-private partnerships, is legislating to make it easier to bring in toll roads. All of this is an elaborate strategy to front-end the biggest motorway building programme this country has ever seen. Nobody would object to that if those mega-motorway projects were seen to be good value. But I think people do object to their road-user charges and their petrol excise going on projects of which a number are white elephants that will be a weight around this country\u2019s neck for a long time to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EMany of the roads of national significance are of such poor quality. I raise the example of the Kapiti Expressway, which was shown recently in a leaked report produced by the engineering firm Beca Group to have a benefit-cost ratio of 0.2, meaning that, at a cost of about $600 million, it would take that project 30 years to deliver an economic benefit equivalent to about $120 million. That is an indication of the incredibly low-quality spending in the transport portfolio by this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI think that people\u2014including those of the Road Transport Forum, who are not known to be critics of building new roads and motorways. Even the Road Transport Forum recently described the roads of national significance as \u201Cgold-plated\u201D. When the Road Transport Forum says motorway projects are gold-plated, that means, I think, that there is clearly something wrong with them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe other factor that relates to road-user charges\u2014and Julie Anne Genter commented about this\u2014is that revenue from road-user charges and petrol excise is falling, and that is putting additional pressure on the National Land Transport Fund and making it more difficult for the Government to front-end the building of these massive motorway projects. People are driving less, and traffic volumes have been static, if not falling, for a number of years\u20146 years or so\u2014in New Zealand. It is part of a very well-documented international trend that people are driving less. One of the interesting things about that is that actually the younger generation are driving less. They are choosing to live in downtown urban communities. They rely on the web much more to provide a sense of community and connectedness now, and the car is no longer this universal symbol of freedom and aspiration, especially in our larger cities. For all those reasons people are driving less and road-user charges are generating, and are set to generate, a much smaller and smaller part of the revenue that we need\u2014the $3 billion to $4 billion a year that we are accustomed to spending on our transport system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThat raises some real questions, of course. It raises questions about the quality and the value for money of our spending on transport, and it raises for this Government and future Governments real questions about how we will pay for\u2014how we will generate the revenue for\u2014our transport system. It is clear, I think, particularly when we think about what is likely to happen with a move to more and more electric vehicles and more people travelling by public transport, that diesel tax and petrol tax are not in the medium term to long term going to be able to generate the revenue that we need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThose questions, I think, should be in the back of our minds in relation to, particularly, the provision about road-user charges in this rather tame and unexciting but, nevertheless, necessary bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u00227526568387594287a4f36cc692e0f06d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227526568387594287a4f36cc692e0f06d\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a short call on this bill, the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill. I am not going to do what the previous member, Phil Twyford, just did and start apologising. This Government has nothing to apologise for. We are very keen, very keen and positive, on what we are continuing to achieve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAs many have noted, this is a bill that goes through in order to validate regulations. I am very pleased to hear that all parties in the House are supporting it. We do not want a repeat of the debacle yesterday, when a certain party decided to vote against a procedural motion on an Appropriation Bill. This really is an opportunity to put regulations in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI note, as have others, that this has also seen a change around superannuation and war pensions. I think that will be particularly pleasing to people across the country. Certainly, different members from T\u0101maki are happy about that. We want to get this bill through and move on to other legislation. I am happy to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0fa0c5f736849dfab7c470c6458de42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0fa0c5f736849dfab7c470c6458de42\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. Raymond Huo\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2454316f17f414f920c4a2b03ef5087\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2454316f17f414f920c4a2b03ef5087\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call to support this bill, the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill. Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) bills are introduced annually to confirm and/or validate subordinate legislation\u2014that is, regulations and, in this case, orders. As the purpose clause confirms, subordinate legislation has to be confirmed to avoid the effect of provisions\u2014namely, sunset clauses\u2014lapsing or being deemed to be revoked after the lapse of a certain time unless confirmed or validated by an Act of Parliament. That is the reason why we are here this morning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EI am particularly interested, in Part 2, in clause 8, \u201CCommodity Levies Act 1990\u201D, and paragraph (b), on the Commodity Levies (Kiwifruit) Order 2012, which confirms an Order in Council. This order requires kiwifruit growers to pay a levy on fruit grown for export, and Mr Colin King just touched very briefly upon the relevant clauses of the levy. As far as this particular clause is concerned, we can see that Kiwifruit Growers Inc. may then spend this money on purposes, including crop health and protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EBut what this bill does not say is the story behind this, which is that spending money on crop health and protection would be too little, too late because the horse has already bolted. The kiwifruit industry is on the verge of collapse, and that is because of this National-ACT Government\u2019s inaction over the Psa disease. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a93d000a0d9497c8cf27513f32f2b7e\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269ed324f2a9d49adbcd57cffcb4e036d\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO\u003C/span\u003E: The Ministry for Primary Industries released a report this year\u2014I am just quoting from the report released by the Minister\u2019s own ministry, and I notice that that Minister is shaking her head. That report states that \u201Cshortfalls in biosecurity checks \u2026 were largely to blame\u201D for the arrival of the Psa vine disease in 2010. The Ministry for Primary Industries\u2019 report also states that \u201CMAF was too slow to respond once the disease was detected,\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5e27ea5d0b54051a9ab7931e3b4b22b\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Really?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a8874f82b8c4381a125721de50bcea7\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014well, read the report, rather than interjecting on my speech\u2014\u201Cstaff failed to recognise that kiwifruit pollen could carry Psa and imports from Psa-affected countries should have been halted\u201D immediately. Now the Minister for Primary Industries is the Hon David Carter. It was his ministry that produced this report. So now we have an industry that is virtually a basket case because of the Government\u2019s inaction. Kiwifruit orchards that were worth as much as $400,000 a hectare are now worth as little as a tenth of that. The growers say that this Government needs to take responsibility for the outbreak and help get the growers back on their feet. But the Hon David Carter is washing his hands, and now they blame him, because, collectively, this National and ACT Government has been taking a hands-off approach. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022 data-id=\u002228cdbc0ef8d64d73ae786d1f70253e52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228cdbc0ef8d64d73ae786d1f70253e52\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill. We in the Green Party are in support of it. It is a process bill. I note that the Regulations Review Committee has suggested that it can be done in a better way, and I think it was very positive to hear the Government saying earlier in a speech that it is prepared to look at how it might be able to streamline it when this same process is undertaken next time. So that is a very positive thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EI will mention the Commodity Levies Act part of it, as well. It is unfortunate, I think, that there is not at least one more commodity levy mentioned there. We have got navel oranges, kiwifruit, nashi pears, arable crops, cereal silage, maize, and asparagus. The organic sector in New Zealand is able to get absolutely no levies. The organic sector is not funded by the Government either. This Government has chosen not to support the organic sector in getting a commodity levy order in operation so that it could actually be funded for the benefit that it would bring to New Zealand, as does happen in numerous other countries around the world, particularly progressive countries in Europe and Scandinavia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThe organic sector talked to the Government about how the organic sector might get support, and everybody realised that getting another commodity levy in was no small task. We accept that there is inevitably, in the introduction, grower or producer resistance, albeit the growers and producers get a very good benefit once the levy is in and the organisations and their research supporters get the benefit from that. I am looking forward to a time when the organic sector in New Zealand is properly appreciated for the benefit it does from building soils, which are built for intergenerational support and production; for the health benefits that can come from better-quality food; and for the extra, good green jobs it can create from that. That would actually come if there was proper support. It is a shame that this Government, rather than getting in behind and in lieu of a commodity levy order for the organic sector, actually dropped the process where growers could actually get some support towards getting certification into organics and would actually be steered through the course that was needed to do that. It was working, it had good measureables, and initially the Government allowed it to roll over, but it closed it down. Why? Is it partly the fact that it might show up other parts of production because there is actually some best practice that could be shown in that? It is hard to tell, apart from the fact that maybe there was not seen to be that immediate cash cow that we get from one of our other sectors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThe Greens, as I say, support this bill, and we are happy to be part of a cross-House support of it. But the note I have made of organics and the commodities levies, the lack of support, needs to be noted too. We hope that this Government and other parties will end up with a cross-House support for the organic sector as part of the \u201Cclean, green\u201D image and brand that has been touted from the Government side earlier in the day. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u00225a1af60a7ad049a0999d48afe23aab1a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a1af60a7ad049a0999d48afe23aab1a\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to take a call on this bill, the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill, today. The purpose of this bill is to confirm and validate subordinate legislation made under various Acts. This bill is required every year. It is a technical bill. Traditionally, all parties in the House support the bill, and this year is no different. We have received cross-House support for this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe Regulations Review Committee endorsed this bill with no changes needed to alter it to bring it back to the House to progress. We did raise the issue that it would have been quite nice to have this bill before the select committee a bit earlier, because we did have a discussion around whether some of the levies and regulations still need to have subordinate legislation imposed on them. It would have been quite nice to have a bit more of a discussion on each one in the select committee before the bill came back into the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThis bill covers 17 orders of regulations under eight different Acts. It is my pleasure to support this bill to the House today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002238a9923654d441638a4beb0f5c7a9947\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 119\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b23b61b90a8c41cd8c487329617f7143\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8fe97e47e24447ca6c6f4ac6c87ca15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8fe97e47e24447ca6c6f4ac6c87ca15\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E M\u014Drena, Mr Chairman. I seek leave for all provisions to be taken as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7b3a7cfd8934ac4a87f16dc0ba952e8\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa322bc2d6b243eda1419edeb99ab9cd\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2 and clauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022415d524945234802bce80386a87ae3b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022415d524945234802bce80386a87ae3b3\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Regrettably, the bill, as introduced, omitted regulations made on 5 June 2012 under the National Animal Identification and Tracing Act 2012. These regulations impose levies on the owners of animals covered by the National Animal Identification and Tracing scheme. The levies contribute to the scheme\u2019s funding. If not confirmed, the regulations will be deemed revoked at the close of 30 June 2013.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 162 in the name of the Hon Gerry Brownlee to insert new clause 9A be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222640a14ed5784f56b7c127a409778585\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b127b8ed26b641da8ca01462866893e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b127b8ed26b641da8ca01462866893e2\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224c4032487b5a47ff94de9727b2a0ca70\u0022\u003ESubantarctic Islands Marine Reserves Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223d3fd6d850fd47edad26733dd49320f8\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe2a5f6200dc4f9494e36876adeb2e16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe2a5f6200dc4f9494e36876adeb2e16\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Subantarctic Islands Marine Reserves Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Local Government and Environment Committee to consider this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s Subantarctic Islands, the Antipodes Islands group, Bounty Islands, Auckland Island, Campbell Island, and Snares Islands are located in the south-east of New Zealand\u2019s exclusive economic zone. The islands and their territorial seas are internationally important for their conservation values and were awarded Unesco World Heritage status in 1998. The land area of each of the Subantarctic Islands is fully protected through having national reserve and nature reserve status. They contain exceptional marine biodiversity in a remote setting largely free from human impacts, resulting in near pristine ecosystems. The islands generate significant economic activity through a multimillion-dollar wildlife tourism industry that brought between 800 and 1,100 tourists visiting the islands in each of the last two seasons. Local and international visitors want to experience the climate and iconic wildlife. The islands are absolutely stunning, with an abundance of native species, albatross, penguins, sea lions, fur seals, and southern right whales. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe islands are protected as nature reserves, befitting their World Heritage status, but it is not only the islands that were considered World Heritage. The high conservation values continue to the sea as does the World Heritage status, which extends to the limits of the territorial sea surrounding the islands. Reserves around the Bounty Islands and Campbell Island covering 58 percent and 39 percent\u2014and I think I have lost one of my pages, but that is all right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249284b1ba8324d88889ba49b2048111a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure you can find it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268f493aa554d46c8983168881dd80979\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure I will, Mr Speaker. The reserves around the Bounty Islands and Campbell Island cover 58 percent and 39 percent of those islands\u2019 territorial seas respectively. In total, 435,163 hectares will be protected in these marine reserves. Combined with the existing marine reserves around the Auckland Islands, nearly a million hectares of New Zealand\u2019s subantarctic territorial sea will then be fully protected in a no-take marine reserve. No longer will marine conservation be lagging behind the terrestrial protection in what is one of the world\u2019s most ecologically important natural areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EAs on land, beneath the surface of the sea each island group is significantly different\u2014each with its own unique suite of habitats and species. For example, the Antipodes Islands rocky reefs are dominated by encrusting corral and algae and the islands have their own unique species of bull kelp, even though the reefs at the neighbouring Bounty Islands are dominated by encrusting animals such as sponges, barnacles, and mussels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EBut the difference does not end there. Although the Subantarctic Islands terrestrial areas are fully protected already as national nature reserves, only at the Auckland Islands has a similar level of protection been afforded to the marine environment, through the establishment of a marine reserve back in 2003. This bill rectifies that situation by extending protection out into the territorial sea around three of the subantarctic island groups. Protection that befits the World Heritage status has been accorded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EI must emphasise that this bill is the result of a stakeholder-led process. Representatives of science, iwi, fishing, and conservation groups gathered to examine the areas, their marine biodiversity, and the islands\u2019 associated stakeholder interest. After public consultation, recommendations were made for marine protected areas in the territorial sea around the Antipodes Islands, Bounty Islands, and Campbell Island groups. The bill progresses the work of the stakeholder forum by establishing the marine reserve around the Antipodes Islands covering its entire territorial sea\u2014that is, out to 12 nautical miles\u2014and, as stated, establishes two large marine reserves around the Bounty Islands and Campbell Island, covering 58 percent and 38 percent of those islands\u2019 territorial seas respectively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EMy colleague the Hon David Carter, the Minister for Primary Industries, is adding further protection to the remainder of the territorial sea. In addition to existing prohibitions on bottom trawling and dredging, new prohibitions on Danish seining will be introduced in an additional 250,000 hectares around the three island groups. This means the territorial sea of all three island groups will have achieved marine protected status. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe creation of marine reserves, through the bill, recognises existing users. The established ling fishery will be allowed to continue using long lining in some areas around the Bounty Islands as this technique has a very limited bycatch. The bill also grants a 5-year window to allow for a potential deep-water crab fishery to be explored around Campbell Island. At the end of that 5-year period the status of this area will be reviewed. If it is decided that a viable and sustainable crab fishery does not exist, then the entire territorial sea around Campbell Island could become a marine reserve. These will be the first marine protected areas to be implemented under the Government\u2019s Marine Protected Areas Policy, which sets out New Zealand\u2019s new, more coordinated, and collaborative approach to protecting our marine biodiversity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe Government is introducing the bill in order to establish these marine reserves in a timely and efficient manner. This recognises the comprehensive process undertaken by the forum in planning for and consulting on the marine reserves proposal. To proceed with individual applications for each marine reserve under the existing Marine Reserves Act 1971 would be to duplicate some of the processes that the forum has already undertaken. This Government is looking to update that old marine reserves legislation to provide for a better statutory process for establishing marine reserves in due course. In the meantime, however, this bill will give the seas surrounding three of New Zealand\u2019s Subantarctic Islands the protection they deserve. This bill fulfils the expectations of the World Heritage Committee that New Zealand will protect these internationally recognised conservation values in a manner befitting their status. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00226046d55e1e6c47b1b08440cb502f1973\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226046d55e1e6c47b1b08440cb502f1973\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Party very strongly supports this legislation, the Subantarctic Islands Marine Reserves Bill. In fact, this legislation is the outcome of the marine protected area strategy that Labour introduced many years ago, back in about 2006 or 2007. We introduced it because we understood the lessons of the northern hemisphere. The northern hemisphere ruthlessly exploited its fisheries. It has turned its seas into marine deserts. It has wiped out species. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ENew Zealand wants to be a world leader in the area of protecting its marine and coastal areas. In fact, the Labour Party policy is to achieve about 30 percent of the marine area being under some form of protection by 2020. I have to say that it is really good to be able to support something in the conservation area that the Government has introduced, albeit on the back of the work that the former Labour Government did, because this bill follows the shambles of the Ross Sea Marine Protected Area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has a deep interest in the Antarctic and the subantarctic areas, and we were seen as a world leader in terms of protection. We held out against the tourist and mineral developments in Antarctica, and there were other countries that had a vested interest in doing it. We opposed those things from a high moral principle\u2014that is, that we have to protect our pristine Antarctic and subantarctic areas. And yet, with the Ross Sea, in order to protect something that at best was worth about $20 million in fisheries, the National Government at the Convention on the Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources meeting went in there actually demonstrating that New Zealand was no different from any other country\u2014that if our economic or commercial interests were at stake, we would sacrifice our principles. We lost that moral leadership, and it is a real regret that we did so, because, actually, even in economic terms, leaving aside the critical environmental and conservation issues, having Christchurch as the gateway to Antarctica is worth several hundred million dollars a year to our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EBy taking a principle stand in that area, we would have carried real weight in opposing the commercial exploitation of Antarctica in other ways. The United States offered a partnership for us. I think our Minister of Conservation probably supported that, took it to Cabinet, and was rolled. Consequently, we did not go in with a joint position with the United States. In a panic we suddenly developed a joint position, but by that stage it was too late, and we lost the opportunity at that Convention on the Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources meeting to do something significant in terms of the Ross Sea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThen, of course, we had the Government turning up at a conservation meeting in Korea that was the International Union for Conservation of Nature. There was a resolution there to protect the M\u0101ui\u2019s and the Hector\u2019s dolphins, the two most endangered dolphin species in the world. And what did New Zealand do under this National Government? We were one of only two countries that opposed that additional protection. That is a matter of absolute shame. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EIt is good that we are seeing a result from the earlier period under a Labour Government in relation to this bill. This bill creates three new marine reserves in the territorial sea around three of New Zealand\u2019s Subantarctic Islands groups. Those reserves are the Moutere Mahue, which is M\u0101ori for \u201Cabandoned island\u201D, but better known, perhaps, as the Antipodes Islands Marine Reserve; the Moutere Hauriri, which is an interesting term, being M\u0101ori for \u201Cangry wind\u201D, which is probably an appropriate description of the Bounty Islands and, perhaps, our opponents across the House; and the third marine protected area will be the Moutere Ihupuku, which is literally \u201Cnose and belly\u201D. I tried to find out what an explanation for that would be, and the best Shane Jones could offer is that maybe it is about this Government being belly up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe other two things this bill does that are worthy of support are that it provides for a review of the Campbell Island Marine Reserve in 5 years\u2019 time, to consider protecting the remainder of the Campbell Island territorial sea by including all of it in the marine reserve. I hope, indeed, that that will happen in 5 years\u2019 time. The other thing it does, interestingly, is deem certain commanding officers of the New Zealand Defence Force to be rangers under the Marine Reserves Act 1971 in respect of the marine reserve. That makes sense because the most frequent visitors to those island groups is, of course, the Royal New Zealand Navy, and it has a very positive role that it can play. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Subantarctic Islands and their territorial seas have been internationally recognised for their outstanding conservation values. Indeed, back in 1998 we were proud that they were awarded World Heritage status. The marine reserves and the prohibitions on Danish seining, combined with the existing Fisheries Act and regulations and prohibitions on bottom trawling and dredging, will provide those marine protected areas over the wider area of the territorial sea of the New Zealand Subantarctic Islands with the protection they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E There will be some impact on commercial activities. It will change the areas where commercial fishing for ling takes place, for example, and it will limit mineral-related activities. Prospecting, exploration, and mining will be restricted to low-impact activities, and it is appropriate that we put constraints on those forms of exploitation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EOn the other side of the ledger there will be real potential benefits for nature-based tourism in the area. The proposal represents the first comprehensive opportunity to address New Zealand\u2019s World Heritage obligation in respect of the territorial seas around these island groups. Action was taken earlier in 2003 to fully protect as a marine reserve the territorial seas around the Auckland Islands. That was an initiative under the last Government, and it was a good initiative. Why is this justified? Well, apart from the obvious factor that they have World Heritage status, each of these island groups is highly distinct biologically, geologically, and geographically. Each has threatened and/or endemic species living or breeding only on or around that particular island, and the islands in the surrounding waters have been subject to minimal human impact and are therefore, as ecosystems, very close to being pristine. It is in our interests as a country, and it is our obligation as a member of the world international community, that we provide that protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe land areas of the islands were, of course, protected way back in 1977 under the Reserves Act. The Auckland Islands and the sea around them were protected as a marine mammal sanctuary, again back in 1978, and the territorial sea, as I mentioned earlier, was fully protected in 2003. A marine protected areas policy was jointly developed between the Department of Conservation and the Ministry of Fisheries under the last Labour Government, and was released in January 2006. It provides the framework for protecting marine diversity by establishing a network of marine protected areas. The Subantarctic Islands Marine Protection Planning Forum was set up, again under Labour, in 2008. That gathered the information, it did the consultation, it heard the submissions, and it presented the Government with options. The bill today is a product of Government decisions made in December 2010. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWe do have an obligation to meet the responsibilities associated with the World Heritage status listing. That means we need to acknowledge that the natural sites are of a quality that is of global significance, and we must undertake to protect and conserve them on behalf of the world community. Labour will be fully supporting this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0488d6794374dcbb0c3af30d29db11d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0488d6794374dcbb0c3af30d29db11d\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to support this Subantarctic Islands Marine Reserves Bill at its first reading. I absolutely agree with the Hon Phil Goff that it is great to see these marine reserves being created, particularly when they are in such a distinctive area, which has been recognised by World Heritage status. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe Local Government and Environment Committee is very keen to get on with this work. We have done a lot of work on marine protection already this year with the exclusive economic zone legislation and it is the beginning of a whole tranche of legislation, with the new marine reserves legislation to be introduced next year. While we were listening to submissions on the exclusive economic zone legislation we learnt how much New Zealanders care about the sea\u2014not that we actually had to be told. All New Zealanders seem to be connected. We come from an island with huge sea masses around us. We like to look at the sea, we like to sail on the sea, and we like to swim, and dive, and surf in the sea. So it is particularly important that we get our marine protection right. The National Government absolutely supports that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EWe have a proud history of marine protection. We passed the original Marine Reserves Act in 1971 and that established the first marine reserve at Cape Rodney in 1977, so it was the beginning of a whole list of things that have come up, to this day. Since we have been in Government we have announced nine new marine reserves, which is a dramatic increase on what was there before, and I think it is about another 36 percent of protected areas. Once these marine reserves are gazetted, 9.4 percent of New Zealand\u2019s territorial seas will be protected by marine reserves and I think that is something we can all be proud of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EBut I would really like to focus on these particular reserves. They surround the islands\u2014Antipodes Island, Bounty Islands, and Campbell Island. Those are islands way down south, about 800 kilometres south-east of Stewart Island / Rakiura. Nobody lives there at the moment, although there have been times when they have been inhabited by sealers, and then there has been some pastoral farming done there, but nobody lives there now, and they are protected with nature reserve status. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EWhat this bill will do is protect the seas around them, and that is particularly important because these islands are known particularly as important seabird breeding areas, particularly of the albatross, but also petrels, penguins, and shags, and also, surprisingly enough, the Antipodes parakeet, which is a brightly coloured parakeet that seems sometimes out of place on these cold and windswept islands. As a matter of interest, they are also well known for their mega-herbs. These are enormous plants with colourful flowers that are a little bit like desert flowerings. They come all together and there are magnificent herbs, mega-herbs, across the islands. They had been eaten down in the past, but since the protected area status, they have now been flourishing. Just as a matter of interest, this is a similar model to what we have done with the Auckland Islands, protecting both the land and the water, and that seems to have been particularly successful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ESo the Local Government and Environment Committee is looking forward to dealing with this bill. We are very keen and enthusiastic to get it right and so we are hoping that maybe Parliament might insist that we take a trip to these islands, as a select committee visit. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4a87e43a518432ea22f5d772964e3df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4a87e43a518432ea22f5d772964e3df\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E To take up the suggestion of the member who has just resumed her seat, Nicky Wagner, I do not think the visit should be restricted to the Local Government and Environment Committee. I believe that anyone who has made the effort to be here at 20 past 12 on a Wednesday afternoon deserves the right to be there, and I see Amy Adams is seconding that idea as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party is certainly supporting the Subantarctic Islands Marine Reserves Bill. I think it is worth noting that the area we are talking about here actually does have World Heritage status. New Zealand should be rightly proud, but also at the same time feel a sense of responsibility for ensuring that we continue to support the status of these very important parts of the planet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EPrevious speakers have gone through in some detail the nature of the islands that we are talking about and the process that they have been through in terms of protection, initially for the land itself under the Reserves Act and then carrying on through there, with the Auckland Islands territorial sea becoming fully protected in 2003, and moving through various regulations, to the point that we can reach now where these sets of islands will be protected. As I say, on this side of the House we are strongly supportive of that process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhat I wanted to focus my comments on in this first reading was the way in which this legislation comes to the House. This is special legislation to create these marine reserves. We are not creating these reserves under the law that currently exists for the creation of marine reserves, the Marine Reserves Act 1971. A number of excellent things occurred in New Zealand in 1971. I was born, for instance, as one of those things. That is a moment that many people will note, I am sure. Louise Upston was possibly born just a little before then, I think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e9dd87fa7ae496583e6c472537474d0\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: No, that year. Come on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce3e63a22fbe44a2ac778068580e525c\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that year? That year, sorry. I thought it was the year before. I apologise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b7bc0b9953f4e6181f1d714ad486ed8\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: No, 1971. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c313bf519d148f6a6573e4dc68368d5\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise for that\u2014another 1971 baby there as well. So 1971 was overall\u2014on balance\u2014a good year, although it is starting to waver a little. But overall it was a good year, and it was the year in which New Zealand passed its marine reserves legislation that put us at the forefront of marine protection in the world. This was legislation that was world-leading in terms of creating, effectively, no-take zones around our coastline. Other countries were well behind. My colleague Phil Goff has already spoken about the damage that has been done in other jurisdictions by not having this kind of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe issue that New Zealand now has, fast-forwarding 40-odd years, is that New Zealand is now actually falling behind in terms of the way that we go about marine protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217b61afa2d5143268c5e99beeddc9b23\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: There was nothing done for 9 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca66fd0816c943b39f473ab515377e7d\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We are left with 40-year-old legislation that is, in fact, cumbersome. It has been suggested that this is something that could have had something done about it in Labour\u2019s 9 years. I actually do accept that. I accept that the last Labour Government did need to try to make progress on this. To that end, it had marine reserves legislation that sat on the books. The problem the Labour Government had, in these days of MMP and minority Governments, was getting a coalition of parties that would support that legislation. I recall this very well, because it was part of my working life at the time to try to find the support for that legislation. Members on the other side of the House who have such enthusiasm now for marine reserves may wish to reflect that they were not in favour of that legislation, but neither, unfortunately, was a majority of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhat that now means in 2012 is that we are left with legislation that is, in fact, hopelessly out of date and very inefficient. For this bill, one of the considerations that officials had to have was whether or not this bill should be special legislation to create these marine reserves, or whether or not it should go through the Marine Reserves Act process. Well, what the regulatory impact statement on this bill tells us is that the average time to establish a marine reserve under the Marine Reserves Act is 12 years. It is between 1 year and 23 years. But 12 years is not a figure that anyone in this House can be proud of. We need to be able to establish marine reserves in a way that is a lot more efficient and a lot more comprehensive than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo I do think that it is time for this House to turn its attention back to the legislative framework for the establishment of marine reserves. The Environmental Defence Society has this year put out a publication around its views of what needs to happen in terms of marine reserves legislation. I had the honour of launching that earlier this year. I tend to agree with the society that the time has come not to return to the legislation that Labour had in front of the House 10 years ago, because time has passed that as well, but to create new marine reserves legislation that actually allows for the efficient promulgation of these kinds of reserves, that allows for the creation of a network of different types of marine protected areas, all the way from no-take areas through to the full protected reserves that most people would understand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe need to ensure that the purpose of any legislation that puts in place marine reserves is the protection of biodiversity, because at the moment that is not completely clear. It particularly is not clear if you are creating no-take areas under the Fisheries Act, because that purpose is not even there. So having a focus on the protection of biodiversity, having the ability to create a range of instruments, and having a network of marine reserves and protected areas is the kind of approach and framework that I would like to see us undertake. I would hope that we could work across the House to find a way of developing that kind of legislation. It must not be as difficult as it is now to establish these kinds of reserves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAlongside that, the other thing that New Zealand Governments have been working on since the late 1990s is the establishment of some kind of integrated oceans policy in which marine reserves can sit. There are some good models of this around New Zealand that we can look at. I am thinking here about the spatial planning exercise in the Hauraki Gulf and elsewhere, where we can actually see integrated oceans management supporting the protection of biodiversity. So I do urge the House that we do need to return to this question of what new, modern marine reserves legislation would look like, and ensure that we take on the very best practice around the world so that New Zealand once again can be a world leader in that area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThere is one specific aspect of this bill that I think would feed into that. My colleague Phil Goff has already mentioned the fact that the establishment of these marine reserves actually arose from a process called the Subantarctic Islands Marine Protection Planning Forum. That was a piece of work that was begun under the previous Government. It is based on the marine protected areas policy from 2006. But the situation we have now is that we have an excellent policy on marine protected areas, and legislation that does not match up with that policy, which is why we need to make changes to allow marine protected areas and marine reserves and other types of protected areas to be included. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut the process that was used in that planning forum is one that should be incorporated in any future legislation. That is a far more collaborative process that brings together stakeholders within a particular area and gives them the opportunity to be part of developing these models. I think there is an even better model, and that was the one that was used to develop the Fiordland (Te Moana o Atawhenua) Marine Area. That was a model that truly included all of those in the community who were interested in marine protection in Fiordland, including recreational fishers, not that there are any recreational fishers in the Subantarctic Islands. But it included all of the stakeholders who would have wanted to have a say. It was quite a long process, but at the end of it there was universal buy in, and, importantly, an ongoing role for that community in Fiordland in the continuing management of marine space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAs a result, I think that there are some things in the way that these marine reserves were created that could find their way into future legislation. But what I would not like to see is the need to continue ad hoc development of marine reserves. What we need is comprehensive legislation that facilitates the efficient creation of marine reserves, based on the principles of the protection of biodiversity, and enables New Zealand to move beyond just our territorial waters and out into the exclusive economic zone, and protects the marine areas that are required in those spaces. The exclusive economic zone legislation that was passed by this Government did not sufficiently take that into account, and it is going to limit New Zealand severely in being able to play the role that it should in protecting our marine areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe do endorse this bill. These islands are an important part of the World Heritage network, and I hope that members of the House will take on board the importance of this kind of legislation and give New Zealanders a framework for establishing marine reserves that we can be proud of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022c34f97388a584410857584c62d9f7f9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c34f97388a584410857584c62d9f7f9c\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. It is good to rise to take a call on the Subantarctic Islands Marine Reserves Bill. It is good to be voting for marine reserves legislation in our Parliament. I do not think we do enough of it, and it is good to see we are getting cross-party support behind this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWhat we are talking about are the Subantarctic Islands\u2014the Antipodes Islands, the Bounty Islands, Campbell Island. They are special, unique, pristine parts that are iconic to New Zealanders and iconic for our environment and our biodiversity, with incredible species of biodiversity down there. Obviously, the islands have played a role in our historical development as a country and as a nation. We have seen livestock run wild. We have seen people shipwrecked there two centuries ago and establish crafts to try to get off. They have got a wonderful tale, and it is good to be voting in our Parliament to support greater protection of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI have not had the privilege to travel down to any of the Subantarctic Islands, so I would second the call by the chair of the Local Government and Environment Committee for an investigation or a trip down there. I think if more New Zealanders could get a chance to visit these amazing parts of our country that so few of us get the chance to visit, there would be a greater desire to protect them. I think the work of artists, in particular, to highlight the special places that we have has been particularly effective. I would like to congratulate all those artists and the groups involved in the Subantarctic artists programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWhat this legislation does is set up marine reserves in the territorial sea around our Subantarctic Islands. We see the entire Antipodes Islands protected, we see 58 percent of the Bounty Islands protected, and we see only 39 percent of the Campbell Island\u2019s territorial sea protected. I would like to touch on the point made by the member Grant Robertson. It is pretty incredible that we have to resort to legislation to enact marine reserves in New Zealand, given we have had legislation\u2014world-leading legislation for its time\u2014on our books since 1971. It is an outrage that we cannot get marine reserves in New Zealand, essentially, without legislation. I think it is an indictment on our law books at the moment. I think it is an indictment of successive Governments that have not tackled it. Hopefully, this can act as a catalyst so that we can progress with coherent, robust marine reserves legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI have got to say before I go into the substance of this speech that although I was heartened to hear that marine reserves legislation was going to be enacted next year, I am deeply disappointed that this was the forum that the member Nicky Wagner would take to address this to the country. I had a commitment earlier this year and a week ago from the Minister Kate Wilkinson that we would see the marine reserves legislation this year. It is disappointing to see it delayed yet another year. What we know is that the marine reserve bills currently languishing at the select committees have the silver medal. They are probably never going to get the infamous trout legislation gold medal for the amount of time left at a select committee, but we are talking about legislation sitting there, stuck there, for almost a decade. I think it is an outrage, given that we know that, on average, it takes 12 years in this country to get a marine reserve under our antiquated, difficult-to-enact legislation. Although it is good to hear that we will be seeing some legislative action on marine reserves, this probably was not the forum to announce that it has been delayed yet another year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EBut on to the good\u2014it is good to see this legislation passing. What it is going to be doing is adding 435,000 hectares to New Zealand\u2019s total marine reserve area. This is a big deal, because at the moment we are doing woefully in terms of marine reserve coverage. Nicky Wagner will say: \u201CLook, we\u2019ve got 9 percent of our territorial sea in marine reserves. Aren\u2019t we doing so well? We\u2019re so close to our 10 percent target.\u201D But what the member did not point out is that in fact our 10 percent target is not just our territorial sea; it is our territorial sea plus our exclusive economic zone, which is the space of water between 12 and 200 nautical miles. What we know is that at the moment we are at 0.31 percent of our combined waters. Only 0.31 percent\u2014that is less than 1 percent\u2014of our waters are protected in marine reserves. Although it is good to be seeing these 435,000 extra hectares added, this is only going to be taking us up to 0.41 percent, I understand, on advice from the Parliamentary Library. It is a start, and we congratulate the start\u2014that is why we are voting for the bill\u2014but we could be going a whole lot further. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe are disappointed that we are not seeing the entirety of these islands protected. What we know is that they are World Heritage sites. It would have been pretty unacceptable, I think, for the Government to not be enacting this legislation, given they are World Heritage sites and given they have been World Heritage sites for quite a while. So we think that there should be greater protection. We think that the 5-year crab trial around Campbell Island is not out of order. We should not be having to go to the ends of the world to get our seafood. The problem is, of course, that we are fishing too hard and fast around our waters. We should not have to go to Campbell Island. We should not have to go to the Ross Sea. We should be able to sustainably manage our fisheries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EA quick legislative point I would like to question is clause 8. The text\u2014and it seems quite odd language\u2014is: \u201CThe Department of Conservation (or its replacement) \u2026\u201D. I am not aware of any legislation where we refer to a department by saying: \u201CThe Department of Conservation (or its replacement) \u2026\u201D. I guess the question is: why are we using such odd drafting language? Is there an ulterior motive? It would be interesting to explore that in the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThis bill has come about as a result of the collaborative process, the planning forum. It is really good to see. We saw it on the West Coast as well. But it is disappointing that we have seen only two. It was trumpeted quite loudly by the current Government when it came into Government that it was a great process. It was trying different things, such as water management. But why have we stuck with only two? Why is this the last one? Why have they not taken the lessons? Obviously we can get a collaborative buy-in from both fisheries and conservationists. Why have we not seen another one? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI guess the question is: if we are going to have real cross-party action on marine reserves, why are we not doing more? Why are we not updating the legislation now, not delaying it yet another year? Why is the Government delaying and refusing marine reserves now, like it is in the Akaroa Harbour? Why is the Government not taking action right now? Tomorrow it could introduce legislation to protect the Kermadec Islands; tomorrow the Government could introduce legislation that would make the world\u2019s largest marine reserve, and it would displace, on average, only $100,000 worth of fishing. A Government that has got such a dire, terrible environmental track record\u2014which is being run through the mud of the international press for the clean, green, 100 percent pure myth, the sham, and has been called to account\u2014tomorrow could introduce legislation to protect the marine waters around the Kermadec Islands. This would be 620,000 square kilometres. It would displace, as I said, only a small amount of fishing. It is something good that I think everyone in this House could support. It is one of those win-wins, of which I think the Government has not taken enough opportunities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ELikewise, we have seen an embarrassing situation with the negotiations over the Ross Sea. The Government could be doing more there. It is likewise with the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act, which the Government benches raised. We have got a real risk of these activities such as deep-sea oil drilling occurring in our oceans. I think the Minister for the Environment should rule out making deep-sea oil drilling a permitted activity. I think it would be outrageous that one would require a consent to build a deck, but one would not require a consent under the legislation, which is so new that it has been passed only this year, to drill in our waters, with the corresponding risk that that entails. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EUnder the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act, the Government has the ability to identify the special areas in our exclusive economic zone\u2014these areas of amazing biodiversity. I think the Government should be more proactive and map out where these will be protected into the future, if we have marine reserve legislation that allows marine reserves to be extended out into the exclusive economic zone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E Ultimately what we need is a coherent oceans strategy. At the moment we have got a piecemeal approach that is, unfortunately, putting at priority the interests of deep-sea oil drillers, not marine protection. The interests of toothfish fisheries and crab fisheries at Campbell Island are put at priority, not marine protection. What we see are dolphin sanctuaries that do not provide sanctuary to dolphins off the coast of Taranaki. We see the benthic protected areas that do not protect from activities like dredging for phosphate on the Chatham Rise. It is good to see progress. We can do a whole lot more. The Green Party is committed to work with the Government, if it can, to get better marine reserves legislation and a coherent oceans policy, which is only going to protect our waters. They are so special and unique, and such a part of who we are as New Zealanders. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022b57168c95ec24deea4cbb011c4604629\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b57168c95ec24deea4cbb011c4604629\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Thank you very much for the opportunity to rise and speak to the Subantarctic Islands Marine Reserves Bill. Members on the other side of the House will be pleased to note that in National\u2019s 2011 conservation manifesto we committed to introducing a new marine reserves bill\u2014expected next year from the Minister of Conservation\u2014to improve the process for creating marine reserves and allowing them outside the 12 nautical mile territorial sea into the exclusive economic zone. That must be good news to members of the Opposition. It is very important for us to realise that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThis is an excellent bill, which is progressing the establishment of these marine reserves. I want to pay tribute right now to the conservation work that our New Zealand Navy is doing. Right now, sailing down to the southern seas is the HMNZS Otago. It is going down to the Ross Sea to patrol on behalf of the Convention on the Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources and the New Zealand Government, to ensure that there is suitable patrol there and compliance by nations in that place. Even right now, down the west coast of the North Island the inshore patrol vessel the HMNZS Rotoiti is on dolphin patrol, looking for M\u0101ui\u2019s dolphins. In fact, from the last report I have heard that there have been 8,000 observer hours on vessels off the Taranaki coast, but, unfortunately, at this point in time there has not been a M\u0101ui\u2019s dolphin sighted. It is probably too cold. There is certainly a lot of activity off the west coast of the North Island to look at those situations. Of course, there are some biological concerns regarding matters of infection in that population, and we would like to see some progress on those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI am very happy to commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u002242219e51fd954e1caabec3c308d6b7b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242219e51fd954e1caabec3c308d6b7b6\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I take a call on behalf of New Zealand First on the Subantarctic Islands Marine Reserves Bill. We also, of course, will be supporting this bill, and we are very proud to be part of it. Looking at the background to these islands, I see that the first islands, the Antipodes Islands\u2014aptly named\u2014were first charted in 1800 by Captain Henry Waterhouse on the British ship HMS Reliance. So it goes back an awful long way, in terms of the origins of modern civilisation in New Zealand, that these islands were first discovered in about 1800. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThe three different groups of islands\u2014the Antipodes Islands, the Bounty Islands, and Campbell Island\u2014are actually quite a distance apart. The Bounty Islands are the northernmost, the Antipodes Islands are right out on the date line\u2014it is probably about the first place in the world to ever see the rising sun, I would think, because it is right on the date line\u2014and then Campbell Island is further down, getting down towards the Auckland Islands. So that covers a vast area of ocean, a vast area of our exclusive economic zone. It is a most important area, because it is such a huge area for marine life, for the sea and what comes from the sea, and for the impacts that has on the New Zealand land mass as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E So it is very important that we do have these areas protected, and important that these marine reserves are put through in terms of supporting, also, that World Heritage Site situation. You know, it is very, very precious that when we have these World Heritage Sites they also have the appropriate legislation such as this to back them up and to make sure that that is the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThe islands are a long way away\u2014860 kilometres south-east of Stewart Island are the Antipodes Islands. When you think about that distance, it is very, very significant and it shows you the outreach that New Zealand has. When we were sitting at the Local Government and Environment Committee this year on the exclusive economic zone legislation, to understand that we have the fifth largest economic zone in the world was quite impressive, really, for a small country of 4\u00BD million. To have such a massive exclusive economic zone is a big responsibility. It is a significant requirement on our country to make sure that we do what is best by that massive zone and that massive potential resource out there, and to make sure that if resources are taken from it, they are taken in an environmentally sustainable manner that will not have adverse effects on the precious environment that we have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003ESo we are very pleased. Like all marine reserves around New Zealand, the more the merrier. Those of us who are familiar with some of the more inshore marine areas such as Goat Island always marvel at the outcomes and the improvement in the fish and the sea life that are there as a result. Therefore, the more marine reserves such as this\u2014and in these remote areas as well\u2014that can protect our marine life, help grow our marine life, and expand the resources that are there, the better. So New Zealand First is very pleased to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022a603e7b7db74410babb5fa132164c353\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a603e7b7db74410babb5fa132164c353\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to support this bill, the Subantarctic Islands Marine Reserves Bill, and the continuing good work of the National Government in areas of conservation. I commend the Minister of Conservation in particular for this bill. What it is about has been made very clear by other members of the House, but it does sit on that ongoing process of work that this Government is committed to. I note, as my colleague Jonathan Young pointed out, that the Marine Reserves Bill is anticipated to be put forward through the House next year to make the process of organising these reserves much easier. So, as with previous bills today, I ask that it move swiftly and quickly to conclusion. These are positive bills and positive actions by the Government, and I look forward to the support of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u00225cb7c33b8f014001bcc25f3444b5fe3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225cb7c33b8f014001bcc25f3444b5fe3a\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure indeed to rise and speak on a really positive bill in this House, because sometimes it seems like we are relentlessly debating things that are negative for the future of this country\u2014certainly, under this Government. But the Subantarctic Islands Marine Reserves Bill is a really positive bill, and it does follow on from a tradition and a culture that have been brought about in this country over many Governments now, but I think in particular I am very proud of Labour\u2019s track record in this regard with our recognising that special connection that New Zealanders do have with the sea and that special commitment that we have to protecting it in the best way that we can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThe three marine reserves that are set aside by this bill sound like a very exciting part of our country\u2014a part that I have never been to, as many other members have said in this debate. But, none the less, just because we have not been there does not mean we cannot understand the special connection and the importance of actually protecting all the species involved\u2014[Interruption] That is right, I am not going to apply Maggie Barry\u2019s Standing Orders to this particular debate. I have not been there. I do not expect I will ever go there in my lifetime, but I still think it is important to support this bill none the less. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI am not going to take up too much more of the House\u2019s time on this. I just reflect that Grant Robertson\u2019s contribution was interesting, talking about the 1971 Marine Reserves Act and how we do need to renew and refresh our approach to marine reserves. I guess we were probably an early adopter, and now what we find is that there is a need to actually improve and modernise our approach to this, and I fully endorse that sentiment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E My first connection with a marine reserve in New Zealand was the Goat Island reserve in the area of Leigh. I was once, when I was very young, working as a reporter for the Rodney and Waitemata Times in that part of the world, and it was certainly a huge benefit for that area to have that marine reserve. I remember that being one of my earliest experiences of actually snorkelling and being involved in close contact in a marine reserve situation, and I can certainly recommend it to any New Zealander who has not had that experience yet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EWithout any further ado I would like to support this bill and continue on the good work that Labour started with regard to marine reserves. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b69bb5a9e42e4823b0f751367f821240\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b69bb5a9e42e4823b0f751367f821240\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E What a privilege it is to speak in support of this Subantarctic Islands Marine Reserves Bill. I am very pleased that it has broad support across the House. Of course, it creates these new marine reserves around three Subantarctic Islands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe bill, as other contributors to this debate have already noted, extends the protection that is already in place for the land of the islands but not the waters around the islands. So this bill is a good thing, and it continues the very proud tradition of National Governments in support of our environment and our marine reserves. This bill is just another step along that proud history and that proud tradition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThere are real benefits for all New Zealanders in terms of tourism and scientific research, and it is very likely that even through the promotion of sustainable fisheries our export opportunities will increase. I am pleased to note that the Minister of Conservation, the Hon Kate Wilkinson, has stated that she plans to introduce a new marine reserves bill into this House next year. I think that will be very good, because it fulfils part of this National Government\u2019s 2011 conservation manifesto. It is timely, therefore, to remember that it was, in fact, a National Government back in 1971 that passed the original Marine Reserves Act. I will be looking forward to participating in the debate when the new bill is introduced next year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EOne of the interesting things that I note from this piece of legislation is that due to the islands\u2019 remote nature the legislation is going to provide for every officer in command of a New Zealand Defence Force vessel or aircraft to be deemed a ranger under the terms of the Act. I think, given the remoteness of the islands, that is a terrific thing. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00229f83c2cd5a9247c1944efdd6e980fd7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f83c2cd5a9247c1944efdd6e980fd7b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022913ae94e5b02455682d505aade5790bf\u0022\u003EEugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e685c0042cd430ebd099ec57850dad6\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the honourable member Eugenie Sage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022be0dd51a8de547849dfb2c3479d8d1c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be0dd51a8de547849dfb2c3479d8d1c5\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ae307e71a8d4e55a5d671ee4ea289ba\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I will ring the bell with 1 minute to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cbad0a5596a45f3a6f0572a6ec07b5b\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I am pleased to take a short call on the Subantarctic Islands Marine Reserves Bill, which the Green Party will be supporting. Certainly, the heavy seas and the strong winds that Wellington has been experiencing this morning give an insight into the conditions that prevail on these islands, though I suspect that the wind-chill factor there is likely to be much higher. I have never had the privilege of visiting the Subantarctic Islands but would certainly welcome the suggestion of the chair of the Local Government and Environment Committee, Nicky Wagner, that we go down to the Antipodes Islands, Bounty Islands, or Campbell Island groups. They are some of our wildest and most remote places, and they are some of our least modified and most natural environments remaining in New Zealand. Certainly, they are a nirvana for nature photographers. They have got dramatic sea cliffs and luxuriant mega-herbs, and then you get species like the albatross nesting amongst the tussock. It was certainly a major achievement in 2001 to 2005 when the Department of Conservation undertook the largest rat eradication project in the world and cleared Campbell Island of rats. There has been a major improvement in the health of the flora since then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt was the universal value of the Subantarctic Islands\u2014the Antipodes Islands, Bounty Islands, Campbell Island, and Auckland Islands\u2014that was recognised when they were listed for World Heritage status in 1998. That listing included all of the territorial seas around the islands, but it is only the territorial seas of the Auckland Islands that have been protected since 2003. So this bill is very welcome because it is an initiative to put in place our World Heritage obligations to protect the territorial seas around three others of the islands. It is certainly a big improvement on the lack of protection around those other groups, the Antipodes Islands, the Bounty Islands, and Campbell Island. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ECertainly, in terms of the Antipodes Islands, all of the 12 nautical mile territorial sea would be protected as a reserve, and that is an excellent result for conservation. But around the Bounty Islands only 58 percent of the territorial sea will be protected, though there will certainly be initiatives under the Fisheries Act to prohibit Danish seine fishing. Around Campbell Island it is only around 39 percent of the territorial waters, and, as Gareth Hughes noted, we are disappointed that that crab fishery is to be allowed, given that it is not even in existence yet. That is a shortcoming in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EI would just like to talk about the collaborative process that resulted in the recommendations to the Government. It was out of the Subantarctic Islands Marine Protection Planning Forum, which had representation from all of the stakeholders\u2014commercial fishers, environmental interests, and others\u2014and the conservation interests on that stakeholder group certainly sought to have a much larger area protected. As a member of the select committee I look forward to their submissions making the case that the boundaries of the reserves that will be established in this bill should be extended. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBut the Government has really dropped the ball on marine protection, apart from this initiative. The Subantarctic forum was established under the former Government and we had the Marine Protected Areas Policy, which was a joint initiative between the Ministry of Fisheries and the Department of Conservation in 2006. That was supposed to govern these collaborative forums set up around the country, and the only ones we have seen have been the Subantarctic one and the West Coast one. Having been a member of the West Coast Marine Protection Forum I know that these forums are an excellent initiative to get away from the hostility that you get and the attacks on reserve proposals that proceed on a one-off basis. Getting all the stakeholders around the table means that you can have a good discussion. Yet there have been no new collaborative forums established subsequent to the West Coast and the Subantarctic ones. That is really disappointing. We keep hearing that a new marine reserves bill will come in next year. That is definitely needed, but we keep hearing \u201Cnext year\u201D without the bill being introduced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ECertainly the Green Party supports this bill. It is a very valuable initiative in marine conservation, but we need more comprehensive initiatives to protect representative areas across our territorial sea and in the exclusive economic zone. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Local Government and Environment Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 12.58 p.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212041e5d3c62553a4a58b687e742119be602000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"