"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002270a2d9bc696042a18623adfa73baf6d0\u0022\u003EWednesday, 5 December 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002257926bc025a14e10942487f00bba530b\u0022\u003EWednesday, 5 December 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002229359e5d74de49d5a5e1ae7348271119\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fcc7682163ea4d4d81a552030343acdd\u0022\u003EChange of Parliamentary Membership\u2014Brendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022f618ea70f09a4432add8b06b64a5a077\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f618ea70f09a4432add8b06b64a5a077\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Honourable members, under Standing Order 35(1)(c) I have been advised by the New Zealand First Party that its parliamentary membership has changed and that Brendan Horan is no longer a member of the New Zealand First Party for parliamentary purposes. Accordingly, under Standing Order 34(4) Brendan Horan is from 4 December 2012 regarded as an Independent member for parliamentary purposes. Allocations of speaking slots and oral questions will be adjusted. Allocations of funding to the New Zealand First Party and to Brendan Horan will also be adjusted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226cd171096cf54a8f8ed098a2a5ebf1b6\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002288bcc02e3096471bb6be920ceeb7aad6\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229b227287566b4c86ae0f9f1db33584ee\u0022\u003EClimate Change Policy\u2014Doha Conference and Withdrawal from Kyoto Protocol Second Commitment Period\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u00224c345ae2023c422b9784a969d94346ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c345ae2023c422b9784a969d94346ff\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: What policy directives has he given his two Ministers attending the United Nations Climate Change Conference in Doha?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022280335c860254102b13655b7483978b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022280335c860254102b13655b7483978b0\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I have not provided any specific directives to the two Ministers\u2014in the same way that I did not provide a specific directive to the acting Leader of the House today on what colour to wear as she sat next to me. However, Cabinet has agreed to an updated international climate change negotiations mandate to guide New Zealand\u2019s general approach to the Doha meeting. It is unlikely that there will be a breakthrough at these talks. Our broad goal is to make continued progress towards a comprehensive agreement by 2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022037ce5a83999456b95e572cecf10de0e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Russell Norman. [Interruption] Order! I want to hear this question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229da1a17adc76446192ae5bef9f95296f\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware that delegates to the United Nations climate conference are discussing excluding New Zealand from international carbon markets because of the Government\u2019s decision not to sign up to the second period of Kyoto commitments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225bbcb4e34914667a84d422da4c9982d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No. I am sure there are plenty of discussions going on, but New Zealand can hold its head up high when it comes to climate change. Half of all of our emissions come from agriculture. This is a Government that has led the charge when it has come to building global consensus for research in that area. That is likely to do more to actually lower global emissions than any of the wacky ideas that the Greens come up with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e16a09159bb4babb5a6aa75c7935dee\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think it is in New Zealand\u2019s best interests for it to be shut out of international carbon markets as a result of his Government\u2019s decision not to sign up to further binding commitments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d26b43d16d5949aa97ebc07b0039f356\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, I would not want to pass comment on something the member says has been discussed, but certainly has not been agreed. But there would be some people who would believe that access to some of the international carbon markets that would see very cheaply priced carbon coming into New Zealand was not a good thing. I thought that was something that the member\u2019s party was actually opposed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d80407f5b4b94b6097ab8f38b21106da\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware of the distaste with which many European countries are viewing New Zealand at Doha because of the demand from his Government that New Zealand have full access to Kyoto-compliant units while rejecting a legal obligation to reduce emissions, which is the very reason the units were designed in the first place? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228012603e7124f878c9b0f179c2f7aed\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I take all of it with a bit of a grain of salt. For a start-off, the same European countries that that member is talking about support their agricultural industries with enormous subsidies. Secondly, 85 percent of world emissions are excluded, so if they do not like what New Zealand is doing, they do not like what 85 percent of the world emissions from countries are doing. Thirdly, New Zealand will have its own, binding target. Fourthly, New Zealand actually met its target in the first commitment period. Under this Government, emissions targets were met. Under the previous Government, they went up by 23 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259b57e8a551c4000bb40a3103553ccee\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Is he surprised that there is discussion on the possibility of excluding New Zealand from international carbon markets, given that the most senior United Nations climate change figure has said that she was very disappointed in New Zealand\u2019s decision not to sign up for the second commitment period? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229747a24a4b5341ff81266b27724ba41c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, New Zealand finds itself with the majority of countries, which represent 85 percent of emissions. New Zealand is going down the convention path. New Zealand will next year set a binding target, and that is something that we will meet. But we need to understand the philosophical difference here, and that is that the Greens-Labour Government, if they ever get there, wants a target of between 25\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab51a2a0b7fb4004b45816a9ed1f1630\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! No. Order! The Prime Minister is not actually responsible for a Greens - Labour Party Government, or what it might do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022522b4b8550d94a4a99f796f21c9d74e8\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a statement from Christiana Figueres saying that she is very disappointed that New Zealand will not enter Kyoto II. It is dated 9 November 2012. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255725d6d4f764fda96d7792d9f83b1b8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce6c0d397fd24b1f90739f9e167dd7bd\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Does he now accept that his Government\u2019s decision not to sign up to binding reductions not only has damaged our international reputation but has threatened our access to the international carbon markets? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c5c1967a2aa480d96153017ad114f8c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a730880ee8240d999c2479f46d871c2\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: When his Minister delivers New Zealand\u2019s main statement at Doha today, will he be arguing that the rest of the world step up action on climate change so that his Government can freeload on their efforts, and does he believe that that is doing our fair share? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed09fff08f1949abbef74d0f86b75b12\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know the exact details of Mr Groser\u2019s speech, but I can say this: the argument that somehow New Zealand is freeloading is a joke. New Zealand is part of the Global Research Alliance on Agricultural Greenhouse Gases, which is delivering international science and research that will reduce methane and nitrate emissions. They represent half of all of New Zealand\u2019s emissions. The world is getting more populated and more hungry, so the Greens\u2019 solution is to shoot one in five cows, and this Government\u2019s solution\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212ed354bb5df4700850e953236faae2a\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That is simply untrue, and not relevant to the answer. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3d8e4df87594cb684cb22012a73c0d5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d1d6fe655094eea8f247742e6a8d366\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b48475f88b944a78bf9b0cde77470e58\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not think I need any\u2014[Interruption] Order! Order, I say to the PM. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022276b989e5334418bafd6355c898a2775\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: If we did that, we would be out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b8f985217144b2e8b68b4db7f520eed\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am not sure that members would want me to do that, because I suspect that they do want to be able to question the Prime Minister further. [Interruption] All I would say to the member\u2014and a point of order has been raised, and these interjections should stop. It has been reasonably light-hearted. They should stop. But I say to the member that he accused the Government of freeloading\u2014alleged in his question that the Government was freeloading\u2014so the Prime Minister had some licence in responding. In the way he couched the statement, I think, anyone could understand that it was not really a serious description of any party\u2019s policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225929286f4f6d4881b6dfa9802ee6ecaf\u0022\u003EGovernment Financial Position\u2014Return to Surplus and Reduction in Borrowing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u002266ce5d3193a54bd7afb701a18ef849d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266ce5d3193a54bd7afb701a18ef849d1\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What progress is the Government making in managing its finances so it can return to surplus and start repaying debt?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022bbeedc28bd524841851a9c4b00c090f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bbeedc28bd524841851a9c4b00c090f3\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Crown\u2019s financial statements for the 4 months ending 31 October were issued today, showing a $2.87 billion operating deficit for the first 4 months of the financial year. This was close to expectations, being $169 million larger than the Budget forecasts. It reflected lower than expected expenses and lower than forecast revenue. Our net core Crown debt was 27.1 percent of GDP, or $55.5 billion. This was in line with Budget forecasts. It remains a considerable challenge to get the Budget back to surplus by 2014-15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6625a44a406498caab7c27b54d5c917\u0022\u003EKanwaljit Singh Bakshi\u003C/span\u003E: According to the Crown accounts for the 4 months to October, what were the main factors behind the Government\u2019s latest financial results?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e41f8af0322544a9b80f50c90ead4fd8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The figures confirm that the Government is continuing to control its new spending, and that is because the Government is continuing to focus on getting better results from existing Government programmes. Tax revenue for the 4 months was $17.9 billion, which was a bit below Budget forecasts, reflecting the flatter economy in the second half of this year. However, it was good to see that the Inland Revenue Department\u2019s tighter collection and enforcement policies resulted in higher effective tax rates for non-incorporated businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bfaa10ad74646c888553b80f870bd5c\u0022\u003EKanwaljit Singh Bakshi\u003C/span\u003E: In light of difficult global economic conditions, what will the Government\u2019s approach be to managing its finances over the next few years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298de41296c204a26a88faab1be48f1dc\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It will be important that we remain focused on prudent and careful spending and, in particular, on making sure that the money we do spend achieves the results that the community wants to see and the Government wants to see. We will also continue to focus on assisting our businesses to be as competitive and productive as possible, because the Government\u2019s principal sources of revenue will come from a faster-growing economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210367e2d1c254a84bb55c3b60011f569\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister of Finance, to use his words, believes he is sticking to a plan that is working, can he confirm that the operating deficit for the first 4 months of this financial year is 6.3 percent higher than forecast in his Budget, that the tax take is $292 million down, and that unemployment is at the highest rate in 13 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fdced5851244b6086e1233330f0b8c2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm the numbers that are published in the accounts, which show that the operating balance excluding gains and losses is about $169 million larger than the Budget forecasts. That reflects the flatter economy, which has also helped to produce a higher unemployment number. However, these numbers do go up and down from month to month, and we are on track to surplus for 2014-15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022986a81382dbe429185c17d18b9ceafb8\u0022\u003EKanwaljit Singh Bakshi\u003C/span\u003E: Compared with the other developed countries, how is the New Zealand Government placed in reducing its deficit and returning to surplus, so that it can start repaying debt?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022785a9e6a4b20418386e63425432073c2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: We are going through a somewhat similar process to other developed countries. In fact, pretty much every developed country is trying to get back to surplus so that it can stop its Government debt levels rising further. We remain on track to achieve that, although I would have to say we are going through a more moderate adjustment than many other Governments. For instance, the Government of the state of Queensland, which is very similar in size to the New Zealand economy, announced in the last month or so the redundancy of 14,000 public servants in a Public Service roughly the same size as ours. We have not had to take that kind of drastic measure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279166f82954649b19b9ce198a45deed4\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: How can it be a moderate outcome when export values have declined 11 percent over the past year, next year\u2019s current account deficit is forecast to be the worst in the developed world, income\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022622b4ed3d02843fb85ff137b2a40e889\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, what a load of rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0aea9848bfa488ab1a6fba107f98de3\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: That is correct. That is correct\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdbe20292f554cbeba6a284aff1356e7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2014[Interruption] Order! Order! This must stop. The member must just ask his question. The more statements that are inserted into a question the more risk there is of interjection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dbba7e6dc204d9095b15cb3e1982bc9\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014income inequality is at its highest level ever recorded in New Zealand, and household savings have turned negative again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccdfe9e7201d436cb1c7f0a1e01ae76b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: We have learnt to divide all the member\u2019s numbers by seven, and then we can\u2014seven is the magic number in the Greens-Labour Government\u2014rely on them. I just disagree with the member. I think that it is pretty clear that the New Zealand economy is going through a more moderate and actually a more successful adjustment than many developed economies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002240561f5423fd4a5abafd46d4834bbb7f\u0022\u003EHon John Banks\u2014Confidence and Prime Minister\u2019s Actions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002259d3e29091444ba1953cb0498f866fdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259d3e29091444ba1953cb0498f866fdc\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his promise to New Zealanders that \u201CI expect high standards from my Ministers\u2026if they don\u2019t meet the standards I set then obviously I will take action if necessary\u201D; if so, how have his actions in respect of Hon John Banks this year upheld that promise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00226876e3277c7d46888c015577115ea4fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226876e3277c7d46888c015577115ea4fe\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bebce07368d64c84a3ae3537bbb0d0b5\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261e1d80b936744edbf8083273cc1d072\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I understand the point of order, because the question actually is more than just asking whether the Prime Minister stands by his statement, and it is a primary question. It asks: \u201Cif so, how have his actions in respect of Hon John Banks this year upheld that promise?\u201D. It is a primary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd9d24e98888446ab5415cb0f1a2367a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Where there have been questions raised, my office has sought and received assurances from Mr Banks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260dcaa9b20a24271afffd16f4bed9bd2\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: With some months to reflect, does he not think he owed it to New Zealanders to actually read the police report into John Banks\u2019 donations so that he could make a judgment on the facts as to whether Mr Banks was meeting the high standards he promised New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258804984e9f94d3695c98fef46977cf1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228c6f8be2fc14e88ae0101e40e6de63f\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he not think Mr Banks has lied, when Mr Banks told his chief of staff earlier this year that he had not received a donation from Kim Dotcom, but only a couple of months earlier had told Mr Dotcom\u2019s lawyer that he could not help him because of the election support?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223649191771864f3dacb147adbd6e5478\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Because where questions have been raised by my office, we have sought assurances and received those assurances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff032b2e22d54388b19e061db55e5d9f\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: How can he claim Mr Banks has not lied, when Mr Banks did not declare a donation from Skycity despite receiving it in an envelope at a meeting organised specifically to hand over the cheque, and when his campaign treasurer sent a receipt for the donation to Skycity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1b3b6e14c94454792bc60b18898158e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: My memory of the PR that was put out by the police was that there was not a prima facie case in that instance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244049d50a89e464c9b9075db5d5f8f82\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not the case that he is just putting politics before principle to try to hang on to John Banks\u2019 vote, and he has broken the promise he made to New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b74eb04f81a4de0b1d20bba46211d10\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221718f8b8d87461caf0537d4aa194d6c\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: If the Prime Minister is keeping his promise of high ethical standards for Ministers, why did he not ask John Banks to explain why he said: \u201CNo, I don\u2019t know.\u201D to the question of whether he knew Kim Dotcom had donated to his mayoral campaign, when the police file shows that Mr Banks sought the donation, he made suggestions to split it into two, he thanked Mr Dotcom for it, and he acknowledged to Mr Dotcom\u2019s lawyer in February this year that he had received it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8a5a0a683d04d4abbdb3c675275c7fb\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have no ministerial responsibility for anything Mr Banks did prior to becoming a Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022012cd37fd48d43a8983549abb4df56a9\u0022\u003EScience and Research Funding\u20142013 Science Investment Round Grants and National Science Challenges Initiative\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u0022d745cab3608c4b7c82b373476b81f454\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d745cab3608c4b7c82b373476b81f454\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Science and Innovation: What investment is the Government making in new science projects?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022ecb2d48b4e9749cf85ed19f5bad73481\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ecb2d48b4e9749cf85ed19f5bad73481\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Science and Innovation):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday I called for applications for $52.8 million worth of Government research funding for the 2013 science investment round. This research funding is another part of the Government\u2019s annual $1.25 billion cross-portfolio investment in science and innovation. Science and innovation are major drivers of progress and key strands of the Government\u2019s Business Growth Agenda. We are focusing this particular investment on new science and research projects that will improve New Zealanders\u2019 health and well-being in the areas of biological industries, high-value manufacturing and services, energy and minerals, and health and society. Researchers have until early April to submit proposals, which will then be peer reviewed and assessed by independent panels. The science board of the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment will decide which proposals get funded by August of next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253f46d10b2ef40d28809bd9acc581858\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: What other investments is the Government making in science?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022350b24cefdaa4648a0c45eecedfecf21\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Almost too many to mention. Last month saw the launch of the Great New Zealand Science Project to encourage New Zealanders to get involved in identifying our biggest science challenges. We have identified a number of illustrative challenges, including our rich seas, land and water, food for health, advanced materials in manufacturing, New Zealand\u2019s biodiversity, fighting disease, our changing climate, and resilience to natural hazards. We are seeking the public and the science community to put forward their ideas, and in April next year, following public engagement and expert advice from a panel chaired by the Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Advisor, Cabinet will decide which science challenges will be funded to make the biggest difference to New Zealand\u2019s future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e01ee3a514ab4dbf953d417ff1042f61\u0022\u003EWork and Income\u2014Use of Transition to Work Grant\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002219d29888f9b349e29a757a839c8e5e1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219d29888f9b349e29a757a839c8e5e1e\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: When was she first aware that the Transition to Work Grant had been used to pay for flights to Australia for job seekers who had an offer of employment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00223a41d2d157394acba25a332c108aa425\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a41d2d157394acba25a332c108aa425\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E It was just after 1 p.m. yesterday that I was advised there might be cases where payment had been granted for flights to Australia. I am aware that there has been the odd request for airfares to Australia via correspondence to my office. I have been clear that my expectation is that they would not be paid. Transition to Work grants were introduced in 2007 under Labour. That year there were 16 cases where airfares were granted to Australia, and I have been informed that there have been six cases this year at a combined total cost of $4,600 approximately. I will be removing any ambiguity in the programme by a direction to the chief executive that will be tabled in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d327b973e665422aa4f554f20ec6f3ff\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she claim in the House yesterday in relation to the Transition to Work grant being used for flights to Australia that \u201Cas far as I have seen to date, I do not have evidence of that.\u201D, and yet that same afternoon she told journalists it had happened the odd time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f685621f3e04ab8836a9b91bca74508\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I do stand by that, because I did not have evidence. As I said to the member yesterday, I was told that there might be, and so as a consequence I was very careful about my answers in this House. As I say, I have now found out that there were at least 16 in 2007 under Labour, which did introduce this programme. But I am certainly not happy that there have been some recently as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295365ed7fbbd481683e84778926a5e96\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Jacinda Ardern. [Interruption] Order! I want to hear this question. Order! I say to the National front-benchers that I want to be able to hear the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226250ca0cb0f544f590d49e59b1fec870\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Can she confirm that because the Transition to Work grant is a discretionary fund where direct monetary transfers are made directly to the client, there is no way that she will ever know how many occasions Work and Income case managers used it to pay for flights and passports for job seekers who had found employment in Australia, and, in fact, every case I have has not been reported as she has claimed? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fbab25f8abc4ce08650c7c0ef582154\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: If the member has cases, then she is welcome to bring them to me, and I would be very interested in seeing them. As I say, what they have done is, no, there is not a box that they can tick in the system that then can be looked at from head office. What they can do, though, is search the system, because they still put the information in; they just do it under certain words, so a manual search has been done. As I say, to date we have got at least 16 in 2007, and to date we have six, certainly, in the last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c544bb35bed149c69c7ede5f1fe8fc18\u0022\u003ERt Hon John Key\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister find it unusual that a party that set up the fund and used it 16 times in the first year now finds in Opposition that it is opposed to its very own policy that it established?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfe460e6d3084279859dcbe49d63bd72\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I suppose I am not really that surprised. I find that that is kind of the sort of standard practice of\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c994706f81824d9e8a22fcb33ba9c525\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption]  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c098607eac524df6b4c4cde457717f1a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! A point of order has been called.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219538e7c45694fcdacf2b63762b4b506\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It is a very obvious point of order. I thought you would have got to your feet on the basis of the fact that the Minister does not have responsibility for the policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bd21d1a68034fc58aa885392f73a260\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question did not actually ask about policy detail. The question asked the Minister\u2019s opinion\u2014whether the Minister would find it unusual were something to have happened\u2014and I have got to confess that I do not believe that the Standing Orders rule that out. If the Minister had started to comment on detail of what Labour\u2019s policy had been, then\u2014well, in fact, Ministers do have a reporting responsibility for past policy. What they must not do is pass an opinion on current Opposition party policies. But I believe the question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022264bafa212744908a69fdc297222bfec\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223061c4384ae54867acaec99144ae730f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Whoa, whoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228027c51d15dd4beaadbae96bb0e90801\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you should not dip, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5d365f215734bd4aa7aef58e62fb3d7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am not dipping; I am standing very steadily, I think. The matter is pretty simple. These days Ministers can be asked their opinions, and the Prime Minister asked whether the Minister thought it was unusual. I was listening to the answer quite carefully to try to make sure it did not transgress, and I had not heard it transgressing to that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b958f38873dd4727bfc2495b4d4f1346\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My point was that the very question was out of order, because it asked the Minister to express an opinion on an issue for which she was not responsible, and that was an apparent change of policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a172c15de0864db3aba3b533ca4b0bac\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I do not think that the Minister was specifically asked to comment on a change of policy. She was asked whether or not she thought it was unusual for a party to have implemented a policy and now be criticising the outcome. You know, this is a robust place. Members of the Opposition get to ask questions that I am sure many Ministers do not like. We have heard a couple today that I think Ministers have not felt that comfortable with. Likewise, governing party members do have the chance to ask questions that other members of the House may not like, either. But I definitely draw the line where the Minister must not\u2014and the member today saw me sit the Prime Minister down on a straight question when he started to make some allegation about what the Green Party\u2019s policy may have been. These rules have to be interpreted very carefully and I try to be fair on this. I have tried to be fair today, and I think I would have been unfair had I ruled that out. I think, though, the question was answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a53ae392fb3a44d8812016c81b8b0a3c\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Can she confirm that a number of the cases she has alluded to under Labour included domestic violence whereas more recent cases of overseas flights have simply involved a client finding a job?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022549acc3fbbb34f27a1baa67c91a52038\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to that, I say that actually this is the Transition to Work programme. There are other ways that they can get funding to help with those circumstances, but it is not through the Transition to Work programme. As far as I am aware and have been advised, those 16 cases were to help people into work in Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022999eea62ee054468a469a0847a835e8a\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Has she examined every single use of the Transition to Work grant\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221056604ce24d457daf6394d635025128\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise to the member. I need to be able to hear, and there is just too much interjection. I apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df1305c6d01845bd9693fc35e2fdc6a3\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Has she examined every single use of the Transition to Work grant over the years 2008, 2009, 2010, and to date, and can she assure the House that it has been used as many times as she has told us today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad5d9bb5983e44c0969a7936878e1d32\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The numbers I have given are from 2007 and then recently. No, we have not gone through every single one of them, but what we have done is look at airfares\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7ebb6ac76f34f60a70db79d509f24d2\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve picked a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa78ba1a17374798885abc8a054cfa3e\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member asked about airfares to Australia, and that is what we have looked at and that is what we have done. We are still going through the files. I welcome giving the member other years as they come up, but we have got 2007 and we have got 2012, with 16 under Labour, which, quite frankly, did introduce this policy with a major hole in it and did nothing to actually fix it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229445f52cc4694c8e87a74fd0ce2657b5\u0022\u003EProstitution\u2014Bylaw-making Powers and Potential Legislative Changes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022 data-id=\u0022eba1b5d4f1ec4a25953bc2d3b9264214\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eba1b5d4f1ec4a25953bc2d3b9264214\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his reported statement that the Prostitution Law Reform Act 2003 \u201Chasn\u2019t actually worked\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00223c50fc564b2d41c49c1d7d5bb21c258c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c50fc564b2d41c49c1d7d5bb21c258c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. One of the key purposes of the Prostitution Reform Act was to prohibit prostitution for under-18-year-olds. I do not believe that it has stopped under-age prostitution, sadly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022250078f780c740849845c07a82eb4d6b\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor\u003C/span\u003E: Given that answer, what will the Government do to address the issue of street prostitution?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ab058e2eb45413395a6b3c7ba47abc7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: My understanding is that the Government has sought advice about the rights of councils. It is the belief, I think, of Crown Law that councils can pass by-laws to prohibit street prostitution, or at least to control that activity. The Government will also be looking through the Local Government Act to change the fines that are possible, to assist local government. The Government\u2019s concern about specific bills that look at one particular area is that they may be unfair on other parts of the country that may be experiencing exactly the same issue, so we are looking for a nationwide solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed70467723f74046bdfb21b40af8f413\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor\u003C/span\u003E: Given that acknowledgment, will the Government give priority to legislation to allow local authorities the power to ban street prostitution in designated areas; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb295f63246146e68b3e1b0eb97a81f5\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: My understanding, I may be wrong, is that the advice from Crown Law is it is the belief that councils already have the capacity to make by-laws specifying places and districts where the business of prostitution or commercial sexual services may or may not occur. As I said, the Government is looking to, through the Local Government Act, make other changes that would support local government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd0bfc3b3c1b4e74a992768d74a2aeb3\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that the southern local boards of the Auckland Council have received written support for the Manukau City Council (Regulation of Prostitution in Specified Places) Bill from Christchurch City Council, Palmerston North City Council, Waitomo District Council, Rangit\u012Bkei District Council, and Southland District Council?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286575a19f1f24eda883ef8f18c3b9c0f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and does that not exactly make the point I am making: that if all of these other councils feel compelled enough to write in support of a bill that would actually change the law in relation to the activities being undertaken in Manukau City\u2014the old Manukau City, which is now part of Auckland City\u2014then it argues the very reason why a nationwide solution is required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d78738dba0434bb0ac6319d3c9832b03\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor\u003C/span\u003E: When can the communities of South Auckland in Papatoetoe, Manurewa, \u014Ctara, and \u014Ct\u0101huhu, and those of Palmerston North, Waitomo, Rangit\u012Bkei, Christchurch, and Southland expect there to be laws in place to control street prostitution? [Interruption] Listen, sweetie. I am asking the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f14c110b2464979bdf05fba8c5ffb9d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: When their local councils act by passing a by-law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f5bd10dbb902406d97f01d7ec3ab9ef1\u0022\u003EChildren, State Care\u2014Gateway Assessments \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u0022be56bf6f238b4f328eef93e82294f223\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be56bf6f238b4f328eef93e82294f223\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: What progress has been made to ensure children in care have access to the health and education services they need?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd127fc4617a4c71b9d0adab0b4cc5d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd127fc4617a4c71b9d0adab0b4cc5d9\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to be able to inform the House that since July 2011 1,048 children and young people involved with Child, Youth and Family have received a gateway assessment. Gateway targets children and young people coming into care who are often disconnected from regular health and education services. Identifying and responding to their health and education needs is a critical step in enabling them to thrive. A gateway assessment is very extensive and enables us to build a complete picture of their needs and then act accordingly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022838a4ddaead042ed9e6f964a82c680e5\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: What did these gateway assessments find?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f8195b24fac4a889872fe623990560a\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, every single child of those 1,048 has presented with significant health issues\u2014three issues on average\u2014ranging from heart murmurs to dental problems and hearing loss. Emotional or behavioural needs have been identified in 53 percent of those assessed. A developmental delay has been found among 16 percent of children, hearing problems with 17 percent, and 14 percent would seem to have speech problems. Other issues included incomplete immunisations, skin problems, dental issues, and parental mental health. The research said that we would find them, and we have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f95d251b84c4868803924071a18e976\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government\u2019s commitment to the future of gateway assessments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022098616d1ca6040e7a4cb3a6feec57c8c\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Evidence to date, as I have just outlined, shows us that we really do need them. These gateway assessments will now be available for up to 4,200 children and young people each financial year. Five hundred of these are for children and young people already in care, 2,200 of these are for children entering care, and the balance are for children who have been referred for care and protection via a family group conference. The process is well and truly up and running. Nineteen of the district health boards are on board, and Hawke\u2019s Bay will be starting early next year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002281ea0fa8ee254731a748a8a87baae470\u0022\u003ETransport Funding\u2014Borrowing for Transmission Gully Public-private Partnership\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2fe4be4b2b04be6b19117f6670dcadb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2fe4be4b2b04be6b19117f6670dcadb\u0022\u003EJULIE ANNE GENTER (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement that \u201Cthere is no suggestion of the Government borrowing billions of dollars for motorways\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022249efab9eb2246388bcc692dd050bfe0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022249efab9eb2246388bcc692dd050bfe0\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I stand by my full statement, which was: \u201CThere is no suggestion of the Government borrowing millions of dollars for motorways. The motorway investment is largely funded \u2026 from the dedicated road-user charges and excise tax that go into the road-user fund.\u201D Between 2009 and 2012 the National Land Transport Fund spent around $4.8 billion on State highways and around $1.9 billion on its share of spending on local roads. Over the same period fuel excise duties and road-user charges raised around $7.5 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284ccd17ea7dc4d6fa8e2eb8a17fab67f\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: How does he reconcile that answer with this letter addressed to the Minister of Finance from the New Zealand Transport Agency, dated 2 October 2012, which states that the planned public-private partnership will \u201Callow the NZTA to borrow\u201D\u2014that is, enter into a long-term repayment obligation\u2014\u201Cfor the Transmission Gully project\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebdbff89f7484b348e46efdb28e21d20\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That is the nature of the public-private partnership financing method, but all the cost of that financing comes from the National Land Transport Fund, funded by the users of the roads through road-user charges. We do not go to the bond market to raise that money, but we do account for it as if it is debt of the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022644470528a6c45df9299d1f46d2e5e37\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: What is the total projected cost of the loan that the Government will be taking out for the Transmission Gully public-private partnership?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226013808088a046b9b8a95f31afc627aa\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have that detail here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225355230e0bd449209233aa128bae9060\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to table this calculation done by the Parliamentary Library that shows that the payments would total $3 billion over the life of the public-private partnership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283859b851a7b41c2b14a5b3071d05ddc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022421ba5859ae946c5897a63b455e801e0\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Why is his Government planning to borrow $3 billion for Transmission Gully, when the New Zealand Transport Agency\u2019s own reports shows the project will increase congestion south of Levin through to central Wellington, and return only $360 million to $500 million worth of benefit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223785e47497834a4889cddc7cf90abda0\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: We can argue about what the $3 billion figure she is quoting means. In fact the cost of that project is considerably less than that. It probably includes all the road-user charges and petrol excise tax, which would be used to pay for the project over the life of the project. But the reason the Government is interested in proceeding with that project is its benefit to the region, because it does deal with a particular vulnerability of Wellington\u2014having only one coastal route north of the city\u2014and is part of a well-signalled corridor of development stretching from Levin to the airport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249205768317e4510806bf5d9e5baf1ba\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table this Ministry of Transport report from 2008, released under the Official Information Act, which shows that the project will increase congestion and will deliver a benefit-cost ratio of 0.36 to 0.5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281ef19a8ce754bd79b31407ceb97dbff\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022465246a1264643d3a58e260ecd8c54cc\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: What is his response to Professor John Goldberg, who has undertaken an analysis of public-private roading partnerships in Australia, who says: \u201CThe public-private partnership concept has failed in Australia and should serve as a warning to superannuation funds of the high risk of investment in road infrastructure.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d2a5878a652429891e172b3cfd20e06\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The professor may be right in pointing out that some Australian projects have failed. But the lesson there is that those risks were carried by the shareholders in the large companies that operated those roads. The failures did not fall on the taxpayer, and that is one of the reasons that public-private partnerships are attractive to Governments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200809909962b476a866e9b8199eac99d\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not the case that the availability payment model that the New Zealand Transport Agency is looking at for the Transmission Gully public-private partnership actually transfers the demand risk to the Government, because it would not be able to get private investors to invest in such a poor project; thus, will it not be future taxpayers who are carrying the risk of this $3 billion loan well into the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222420dfa547447b48e98c3021b7f668b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government carries so-called demand risk on every road in New Zealand at the moment because we have not transferred that demand risk to anyone else, in any example that I can recall right now. Actually, I thought the Greens would be pleased about those projects failing, because if they failed, it was because fewer cars showed up, and given that the Greens-Labour Opposition is opposed to cars, they should think that is a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc8690e629424fc388f18f796b759674\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table traffic volumes for the Wellington region, which show that traffic volumes have not been growing as expected and therefore the benefits\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022600dc1361ddc4ca2987b7f3f8653af2f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What is the source of the document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d572a5794bb497695b84e09e3220367\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: The New Zealand Transport Agency road monitoring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f40a845810c4890a367c05567bf9bdc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022864705679f6c46e9aab0ad6058bc7309\u0022\u003EOil, Gas, and Mineral Resources\u2014Iwi Consultation and Ng\u0101ti Ruanui Concerns\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u0022feb472b86d214f8d8f27fb6ebb1b70fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022feb472b86d214f8d8f27fb6ebb1b70fc\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: Does he agree with Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti Ruanui that iwi are more likely to be on the ground in respect of oil and mineral operations, and therefore inclusion of iwi in the assessment of health, safety and environmental requirements is essential; if so, how does he intend to demonstrate this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022dcdb3392f6034c4db172df745d4842a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dcdb3392f6034c4db172df745d4842a9\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Energy and Resources: The Government does recognise that iwi have a particular interest in respect of some oil and mineral operations in the energy and resources sector, as do other New Zealanders at different times. That is precisely why we are introducing a number of measures to strengthen the relationship between permit holders and iwi. However, we believe that it is the role of the regulator to properly undertake the assessments that the member mentions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eea7a09c41e047de94c402ccb83249c4\u0022\u003EHon Tariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that Ng\u0101ti Ruanui, as part of the Iwi Leaders Forum mandated group to lead the oil and minerals kaupapa, has suggested that an inclusive approach on the development of the Crown minerals bill was not honoured, despite early concerns raised by iwi; if so, how will he address their concerns?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253ff01c1f2574ecfa6848d5a119f2951\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment has had in fact numerous engagements with Ng\u0101ti Ruanui and other iwi on the Crown minerals regime throughout 2012. This engagement has included never previously offered opportunities, such as reviewing early drafts of the bill, and also minerals programmes. Further, the Minister has met with Ng\u0101ti Ruanui personally on a number of occasions this year. I am advised that although this process has not gone as far as Ng\u0101ti Ruanui desired, it is clear that the level of engagement has been a very marked improvement on what the iwi experienced previously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fdac3c8370f4ba6a4c3b623d024453f\u0022\u003EHon Tariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Minister respond to the concerns of Ng\u0101ti Ruanui, that not recognising iwi in the permitting process could create inefficiency and frustration, and that, further, more exclusions will only drive opposition and reinforce barriers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228534382de2ed4d0b929a076e192469a7\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said in my earlier answers, the Government believes that it is the role of the relevant regulator to be the decision maker in the permitting process. Officials are committed to engaging with iwi constructively, and I believe that iwi will find that the cumulative effect of the amendments proposed in the bill that is before the House and the minerals programmes, as well as the operational changes implemented by officials, add up to very significant improvements in both engagement and consultation practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225869f47f39324260b9bd682301e05ed2\u0022\u003EPacific Forum Line\u2014Sale of Shares and Potential Conflict of Interest\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u002268b6e12b49eb4a6cafc5cedf0dd4c97c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268b6e12b49eb4a6cafc5cedf0dd4c97c\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: Is he aware of the requirement in the Cabinet Manual \u201Cto behave in a way that upholds and is seen to uphold the highest ethical standards\u201D and have the appointments he has made as Minister met that requirement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022 data-id=\u0022386388a6b0524bec9513810b3e6892bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022386388a6b0524bec9513810b3e6892bc\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223839ecea8fcf401da63a7aa436702633\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: When he appointed Peter Kiely as director of the Pacific Forum Line in July 2009, was he aware that Mr Kiely was, from November 2008, listed under the Companies Register as a shareholder in a competing shipping company, Sofrana, and that he held those shares right through until 10 August 2012?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be65fc589d8543ed9a7e8be38e19faf9\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY\u003C/span\u003E: If the member wants to ask a specific question about a specific appointment with that level of detail, he will have to put down a separate question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227e76d72ed3e49bd8543c8ed128b0b45\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It was a question of whether the Minister was aware; it was not about detail of the appointment. The Minister either was aware or was not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d2b6b4bd2d84ebea247dfe81851da8b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member raises a reasonable point. He did ask whether the Minister was aware. If the Minister could assist with an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022900ccd4c9b8145d583deca4672efe831\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY\u003C/span\u003E: In answering a question with that degree of specificity I would want to check the information that was made available to me at the time, so that I could give the House an accurate answer, and if the member was to give me notice that that information was being sought, I would do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d28eec947054c5698f3fed0b29a0253\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think that is a fair answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd4d74a621e54e96b54663e7e87d5af4\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Was it appropriate for Mr Kiely to have been a shareholder in Sofrana and not disclose that information to his Minister or to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, when Mr Kiely was involved in giving advice to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade on the sale of the Pacific Forum Line and the preferred bidder was in fact the Sofrana shipping line?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206c14be7edd24cfeb5f6e9c6bfdb85ad\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY\u003C/span\u003E: The member should be careful, because I think he is getting into territory that calls into question the reputation of an upstanding individual who has rendered excellent service to Governments, I think from both sides of the House, in a variety of ways. I would want to check the information that the member has asserted across the House before giving a specific answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022637379f4c2e84383870efefc6a65d17f\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Do sections 139 and 140 of the Companies Act 1993 require that a director must disclose any such interest, and is that, likewise, a requirement under the Government\u2019s Owner\u2019s Expectations Manual for State-Owned Enterprises for its directors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9e42e9432c54897a77e56b2a27b6602\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the Minister, the first part of that question did seek a legal opinion, because it asked whether it is correct that certain parts of an Act mean something, or require something\u2014which is a legal opinion. I would invite the member to rephrase his question to avoid asking the Minister for a legal opinion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e4bf814c72b4d6e81b8e6814cd12188\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the Government\u2019s Owner\u2019s Expectations Manual for State-Owned Enterprises, which governs directors appointed by the Government, requires the disclosure of any interest and potential conflict of interest, and that that is, likewise, a requirement under the Institute of Directors\u2019 code of ethics, and, likewise, a statutory requirement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f463e938a0c42a181d4f74ca918b35b\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade in relation to any appointment of the sort would go through the normal procedures, which require certain certificates to be completed, and I am sure that it did so. But, by way of further elaboration, can I say that Mr Kiely was invited by me to join the board of the Pacific Forum Line because that line was in some significant difficulty, requiring some specialist skills and background knowledge in relation to that company. These circumstances arose because the previous Government had appointed to the board a Labour Party flunkey called Dave Morgan, who was partly responsible for that company losing $14 million in the space of 2 years, and I needed somebody to fix it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022886e564dfaaf4c46a0090c810a4f5177\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Is his Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade correct in the answer that it has given to me that in the proposed sale of shares in the Pacific Forum Line and in the consideration of their disposal no director of the line disclosed any conflict of interest?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022470de7ecf7dd4789a12eafc9c66deea3\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot comment on a document that the member is quoting from without notice and the opportunity to check, because I would, obviously, want to give the House an accurate answer. But I do want to repeat that Mr Kiely has, in my long experience, always behaved as a person of absolute integrity and great professionalism. He was invited to do a very difficult job because the previous Government had made a highly political appointment of an inappropriate person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1faeacf27fa4d50963d10c48616124a\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Is Mr Kiely a personal friend of the Minister, and has been for 40 years; is he likewise an active member of the National Party, representing the National Party legally; and is he likewise a friend of, and a legal adviser to, the Prime Minister, Mr Key?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022069e52d93c6048ecbfbdb03dff8ba7ae\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY\u003C/span\u003E: The member would need to ask the Prime Minister in relation to his own legal representation. What I can say to him is that Mr Kiely has not acted for me, but I have known him for a long period of time and I can vouch for his integrity. I also say that I have found him to be a person who renders the highest level of competent service to Governments from both sides of this House over a long period of time. If the member wants to besmirch people\u2019s reputations, he should be extremely careful doing so inside the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022743dba7cdf2a4810b346536db998beb3\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table a number of documents. The first document is an extract from the Companies Register showing that Mr Kiely became a shareholder as of 3 November 2008 in Sofrana and did not relinquish those shares until 10 August 2012.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224294954fd5a641178efc20d017ceaf1e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214edd9f4406b48e3930d48ba98812733\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table a statement from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade to the effect that Mr Kiely gave advice to the Government on the sale of Pacific Forum Line shares, and, further, that no director of the line disclosed any conflict of interest in the proposed sale of the shares.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266bba6a7bd06446ba2a7599e6224b24f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a Ministry of Foreign and Affairs and Trade document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d1e8464b22148b89a623c5056444f8d\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: These are answers\u2014I do not know yet whether tabled\u2014for the financial review by the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d861b9758fa414faef0f5fcd9a23500\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We have got to be a bit careful if they are not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b03e29b1faa4b50b63494026458e385\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: They are not public yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022526881fc82e143c6b5f64d598fa7efcb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: But\u2014[Interruption] Order! These answers are the property of the committee. I would need to seek advice as to whether the House is at liberty to\u2014[Interruption] The advice is, as one might have expected, that the House can, should it choose, give leave for confidential documents of the committee to be tabled. Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3b02380fe1f4172a9e74a3008d81143\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table a reply to a request under the Official Information Act dated 19 November 2012, from Mr McCully to me, refusing to disclose any documents on the sale of New Zealand shares in the Pacific Forum Line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcfb5b9852e447c7acebbb269a74ba20\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff3f26f5d4284ef4963535efe1e2a0fc\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table an extract from the New Zealand Government\u2019s Owner\u2019s Expectations Manual for State-Owned Enterprises, July 2012, which says that \u201CA conflict of interest arises when a director\u2019s duties or responsibilities to the company could be affected by some other interest or duty.\u201D, and that \u201CDirectors must disclose any relationships and/or matters that give rise to an actual or potential conflict of interest.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225d975cfa96d456f81cfcd7a9c4084d5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245aa5d465c494226ae9701c8f5582d4d\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Finally, I seek the leave of the House to table an extract from the Institute of Directors\u2019 Code of Ethics and the Code of Practice for Directors, which says that the companies legislation requires directors having a conflict of interest to disclose the nature and extent of their interest\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229565e2e511cc40c784ef4d823db76cae\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220e6d9947cb7243e19246098e8b3c28d1\u0022\u003EFood Poisoning\u2014Statistics and Prevention\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u0022f564b37e7004497da26d1788056da022\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f564b37e7004497da26d1788056da022\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Food Safety: What progress has been made to reduce the incidence of food poisoning in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022e56bba1ce6d94f8b8b3da0b8179ea4bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e56bba1ce6d94f8b8b3da0b8179ea4bf\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister for Food Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to report that very good progress has been made in reducing the incidence of food poisoning in New Zealand. Back in 2007 there were approximately 160 cases of food-related campylobacter per 100,000 people. This year that figure is expected to halve to approximately 80 cases per 100,000 people. In 2007 there were also approximately 14 cases of salmonella per 100,000 people, compared with 11 cases per 100,000 people this year. What this means is that around 3,300 fewer New Zealanders got sick from campylobacter this year than 5 years ago, with more than 100 Kiwis escaping illness from salmonella. According to the Ministry for Primary Industries this reduction in food poisoning has produced savings of around $40 million per year. This is good news for New Zealanders, good news for our food industry, and it translates to significant savings for the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223628a4f939b24ae3bc0599c8bfa20e54\u0022\u003EDr Jian Yang\u003C/span\u003E: What has the Government done to achieve this result, and how can improvements continue to be made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0fa3e8cefa34c82b5945453fc19a4d9\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has funded research to identify likely sources of the illnesses, and the Ministry for Primary Industries has done a good job working closely with relevant food sectors and businesses to improve food control measures. We have also mandated a performance target for control of campylobacter in chicken slaughter and dressing premises, which has resulted in significant improvements in this sector. We are currently reviewing this performance target, and we will provide further guidance for control of food-borne hazards in each sector as appropriate under the proposed Food Bill regime. As we scrape down the barbecue over the festive season, it is a good time to remember to do the food safety basics: do not cross-contaminate surfaces, properly cook chicken, and make sure the whole family washes their hands before eating\u2014or, in other words, cook, cover, chill, and clean, not necessarily in that order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224a711260f078463fb9f14f2402b431c0\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u2014Statements on Canterbury Recovery, Hillside Workshops, and Pike River Mine Disaster\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e581174d321248a8a20cb26a2a6caf16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e581174d321248a8a20cb26a2a6caf16\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00226910fb03c2f74df997adeb4048c273c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226910fb03c2f74df997adeb4048c273c6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233f372978da745ab96fc82801b00cf7c\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Is it fair that his Government is offering to acquire land from owners of insured commercial premises and owners of bare sections at only 50 percent of the rating valuation, when he said 100 percent was a fair offer to insured homeowners in those areas, even when they were losing tens of thousands of dollars? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b72bc4724054245bfcf4c9cb87e42e1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I think that, in terms of commercial properties, they are entitled to nothing, so the Government is actually stepping up and giving them a lot more. In the case of residential homeowners, the Government has been exceedingly generous. The reason it has done that is to try to recognise the plight that people were in in Christchurch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022683167f74a3a4e5ab737f4164643ed4d\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: How is it fair that his Government is offering to buy out central city property owners for less than half the value of the land, leaving them with insufficient funds to re-establish their businesses elsewhere, under the threat of compulsory acquisition and holding up the funds for at least another 12 months? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e29098b793e74866834c08380004e82e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The advice I have had from the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery is that they are looking at all these properties. They have done the best they can to come up with a proposal that is fair on the valuations. But in principle there is always the risk that some people will be left worse off. That is a statement of fact because of the situation that they find themselves in in Christchurch. But the Government, I think, cannot be accused of being cheap when it comes to Christchurch. We have put in billions and billions of dollars to support Cantabrians. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c214ddb7c3624fcd8717e5971607eaa1\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: In regard to his statement on Monday on KiwiRail that \u201Cwhen the board informed us of the likely intention to close Hillside we pushed back reasonably strongly and asked them to fully examine their decision,\u201D what specific actions did he or his Ministers take to push back against the KiwiRail board?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3d84fa4abdd4260bc0706984c80071b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I remember being in the meeting\u2014I cannot exactly tell the member the date\u2014with the chairman of KiwiRail. He and the chief executive came in and they gave us an early indication that it was likely that they would not find a sale for the part of Hillside\u2014not the foundry, but the other part of the business. We said to them that there would be significant implications, clearly, for those people, and that there were real issues for those families. We asked them to go back one more time and have a very good look at the situation and be absolutely sure. In principle, we tried to do whatever we could. The advice we got from KiwiRail in the end was that if we wanted to keep Hillside going, then we would actually end up having to make a subsidy payment on the back of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ce471467bec4812a35beb98e8ee48ce\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: When he said on Monday that the only way to keep Hillside going was for the Government to financially compensate KiwiRail, how much compensation would have been required to build wagons at Hillside? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e656361ae9a44b699738ca796d260a4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have the exact number, but it is millions of dollars. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262878ec82c4c456db807d7aa2013d158\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his commitment to the families of the Pike River miners that recovery of the miners\u2019 bodies would remain \u201Can absolute priority\u201D and \u201Cit\u2019s not an issue of money\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d7aa959a41f4a2397930a26ce089e35\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: That is absolutely right. The member may or may not be aware that I am writing back to Bernie Monk. I will be doing that. I am visiting the West Coast next week on the 13th. The letter, which no doubt will find its way into the public domain, also goes to all of the families. It spells out what the Government is prepared to do and all of the risks that are there, but it also summarises the very substantial risks that have been identified in going into the main workings of the mine. It references back to Professor Galvin and the comments that he has made in the royal commission\u2019s report, which goes on to say that, irrelevant of the spending of any amount of money, the risks of going into that mine are very substantial. That member should know that if more people get killed on the West Coast going into the main workings of the Pike River mine, that would be an utter travesty, and I am surprised he is supporting that, when he himself knows the risks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227697d148cf0f47cd9882998117898c58\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Will that Prime Minister honour his commitment to do everything possible, and will he commit to recover the drift of the Pike River mine, which is, by all accounts and the advice of the three independent experts, quite achievable, quite possible, and quite safe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022212f2ce317a34dd08af438fff2ce3380\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: It would be quite wrong of me to give the member that information before it is communicated to Mr Monk and the families, but I can tell the member that in the letter the Government\u2019s position is very clearly spelt out. Secondly, I can tell the member that I will be sleeping very peacefully tonight with the commitments that I have made. And I go back to the final point, which is that, in relation to the main workings of the mine, all of the advice we have received is that it is a very, very substantial risk. If the member goes and looks at that letter\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0b9ad4edcad442bb55261c24c890fac\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Stop trying to spin it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214b222fa8a514ab2b5b851a10449bdd7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am not spinning it. I am actually doing what is right for the health of people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b61d37abeb04dc1aa539de2eb5abbae\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: He mentioned the drift. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b555e2cb7acd4ed6bea33fa9311c8e20\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: If that member wants to kill people going in the mine\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285c1f240b4cd4144895a5389cdbdca1a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] No. Order! I am on my feet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a69e7fa7de84effaadd9777b584d407\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c34e04b0b38548a7869d4f7f091baff4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will wait a moment until the House settles down. This is a tense issue, but we cannot have that kind of exchange.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7387b538d9246fda79eeddba85e5af8\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: I was very careful with my question. I would appreciate the Prime Minister\u2019s answer on this. I was asking in relation to the drift, and if the Prime Minister could answer the question of when, that would satisfy my request.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b34723ba32624dc49e03aa47efc4b053\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I accept the member\u2019s point. He did ask specifically in relation to the drift.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022981ee19df6df40978fb6a22787d51413\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I was quite clear in my answer. I can give the member an answer. I have an answer. I will not give the member an answer, and the reason I will not give him an answer is that the answer is spelt out in a letter to Bernie Monk and the families, and surely that member can understand that those families\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3232345afe24bc294c00c2417e8a80e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] No. Order! The Prime Minister must not say that under a point of order. This was under a point of order, not a further answer. I think, though, he has explained why he cannot answer that part of the question. I must accept that, as Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002203d9c4c5c9154877ad8c9799d904901a\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c3be5ce0ab340e2bf74c790c7898d29\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002258a18e3e0cae47f980eb352b4901dab8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258a18e3e0cae47f980eb352b4901dab8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. Was it not interesting this week to see the Greens measuring up the desks in the Beehive? In fact, I think some of them were seen there. There is no doubt at all who is the energetic, organised, cohesive front end of the Greens-Labour Government. It is not the Labour Party, which, of course, is disorganised, lacks cohesion, has no energy, and has left a vacuum in Opposition, which has handed the leadership of the Opposition not, as the media think, to Ian Shearer, the leader\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6eb64d5fc3b4202a4e02aab5bd37b26\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no, not Ian Shearer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272013f48173c4dd2a1823997164b0541\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014oh, David, sorry\u2014David Shearer, the leader of the Labour Party. It has handed the leadership of the Opposition to the Green Party, and, in particular, Russel Norman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec1c3c7e3892445bbfef9d7d546cdd8c\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Harvey Norman?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fba79011c33f43b1a03e2ca6e29a05b7\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Russel. No, not Harvey Norman from Australia. Russel Norman is very keen on office furniture, but the most important asset in the Greens\u2019 office is the photocopier, where you print the money. That is the most important part of their office furniture. The Greens have been measuring the doors on the Beehive to see whether they can get the photocopier\u2014the money-printing photocopier\u2014through the doorway so that when they have the ministry of finance, they can solve all the problems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ESome of those solutions have become a bit clearer from Mr Norman\u2019s contributions at the select committee recently. I will not go through the rather confused transcript other than to say that I could sum it up this way: \u201CIf you printed the money, it doesn\u2019t matter whether you lose some.\u201D\u2014if you printed the money, it does not matter whether you lose some. This is the new thinking in the Greens-Labour Opposition. Those members have been on through the year about old-fashioned thinking\u2014you know, like spending only what you have got and not borrowing too much. That is very old-fashioned, neo-liberal, conservative extremism, but new, fresh thinking is an upgraded brand of photocopier. That is the new stuff, and probably security features on the money, no doubt. But the great news is that it does not matter whether you lose it, because it was only printed money to start with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWell, while the Greens have been taking over the Greens-Labour Opposition\u2014and now find themselves being described by the media as easily the most articulate Opposition spokespeople\u2014the Government has been getting on with its plan, which does show some of the differences. I mean, the Greens have got a spokesperson on transport who is against transport, a spokesperson on energy who is against energy, and a spokesperson on finance who is actually against finance\u2014up for printing money. Actually, it is an Opposition that is against jobs. And it has a spokesperson on employment, of course, who has to go out there and say: \u201CWhat we\u2019re trying to do in Opposition is destroy employment. Anywhere it might pop up, we want to jump on it\u2014we want to jump on it.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government has been getting on with helping people create the jobs in difficult circumstances, and through this year we have acknowledged the new reality, which is that growth is hard to come by. Many developed countries do not have any growth, or any employment growth, and we are backing New Zealand\u2019s households and businesses, because that is who is making the decisions that are making this economy work. The Business Growth Agenda sets out not one thing but about 200 things, actually\u2014policy initiatives that we need to undertake to support our businesses to make the decision that matters, which is not turning on the photocopier but the decision to invest real savings made by households, which are giving up something to save that money\u2014to invest that money in their business, and employ another person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00221d1a2c01f54a4f988e29e164b554ee50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d1a2c01f54a4f988e29e164b554ee50\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E That was the Minister whom the Prime Minister has found the most disappointing this year. He is the Minister in charge of the asset sales programme that was meant to occur and which has collapsed, and the Prime Minister finds his work disappointing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI want to make a passing comment about Peter Kiely. I have known Peter Kiely for only 25 years. We have travelled together. We were both once people of promise, according to the United States Government, and he has been a person who has in the past, I think, acted with integrity. If what appears to be the case is the case, then I think that John Key, the chair of the Cabinet appointments and honours committee, and Murray McCully, who nominated Mr Kiely, are in very serious trouble. What appears to be the case is that Mr Kiely has breached a number of laws as well as a number of conventions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI decided today to make a list of things that had gone wrong for the Government this year. Members know that normally when I make a 5-minute speech, I have about four words on the back of one envelope. I got on to three envelopes today. I got on to three envelopes trying to make a list, and that is not good when it is a 5-minute speech. Well, it is not the brown envelopes of the sort that John Banks collects full of cash and then forgets. It is not the sorts of brown envelopes that he got from Dotcom or Skycity. It is not the sorts of cash for pokies arrangements that Steven Joyce enters into. Those are just two of the things that have occurred this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EIf I was the Prime Minister and was being disappointed, I would be disappointed about the level of unemployment. It has reached the same level as 13 years ago. It has reached a level that I personally thought it would never reach again. Any coherent Government could have stopped it reaching that level if it decided to make employment a priority. We have had the Prime Minister saying: \u201CI will not remember.\u201D He will not remember the details of the briefings he got from his spy agencies. He will not remember the fact that he had a massive German with giraffes in his front lawn sitting in his own electorate. He will not read the police file, the police case, that everyone else has read that shows that John Banks is a liar. He has a Minister who has lied this year. John Banks\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd84e208f1534b799d629f46f0f814f6\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I realise that it is not possible for someone to take offence on behalf of another, but I think there were a number of Speakers\u2019 rulings breached by the accusations made by the member and he should withdraw them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230fd34239ee6498b9d4279972028d8f8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well the member was actually pretty careful with what he said. The member did not accuse any member of the House of being a liar. He spoke of evidence that indicated someone had been a liar, and that is different from a straight-out accusation. But if the member takes the next step and accuses a member directly of being a liar, then he will be asked to withdraw and apologise for that. He needs to be a little careful because it is skating on the edge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223942e66138e04112a3b4ce95541518ae\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister has refused to read the evidence that shows that his Minister Banks lied to the chief of staff. The Prime Minister refused to do that. We will arrange to put it on a podcast so that he can listen to it in the gym if he wants to, but the Prime Minister does not want to know about the evidence that shows that he has a liar, someone who has lied, the evidence that shows\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022328999010b6f475c8ce0cf4099d52054\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not want to debate the facts of the report that the member is quoting, but the report does not say that. The only inference that can be drawn from the member\u2019s contribution is the direct one, which is in breach of the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022463e682fb4254b859699897faa8bade2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member makes a fair point too that I am sure the evidence does not use that word, and the member has to be careful now as he interpolates from the evidence that he has been talking about. He must be careful. It is going to lead to disorder if members basically accuse other members of being liars. The member needs to be careful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204a11fd5880e403cafb002806113a27e\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to move on. Let us move on to other matters. Let us go along to the ACC leaks, the breaches of privacy. Remember at the beginning of the year that Bronwyn Pullar was a hero, that she was being acclaimed by the Prime Minister? What are they saying about her now? Remember about the Inland Revenue leaks, the Work and Income leaks, and the Novopay leaks? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EHow about considering education? I think education can be summarised this year as the Ministers did not read the papers. They did not read their papers on Novopay. Neither Foss nor Parata read the papers before they signed it off. The Minister did not read her papers to do with Christchurch before she approved the mergers and the closures of the schools down there. She did not read her papers about class sizes and she was forced to do a U-turn. So what do we have in education? We have chaos from Ministers who should not hold warrants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u00226c2e3894043d483fb2e2b3bc11b78835\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c2e3894043d483fb2e2b3bc11b78835\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E What New Zealanders are seeing today is a Government that is determined, with its plan of action, to improve the New Zealand economy and provide the better future that New Zealanders are looking for. In these uncertain times around the world New Zealanders can look to the National Party to provide the security and opportunities that they deserve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that is focusing on the things that matter. You will not hear from Government members in the general debate who said what to whom, who did this, who did not do that, and all this sort of business. You will not hear from us about all the little gotcha stories that you just heard in the last 2 minutes or 3 minutes. What you will hear from this Government in this debate is its determination to stick to its plan and the improvements that it can make for New Zealanders up and down this country because this Government is responsibly managing the finances of this nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EWe are on our plan to balance the books around 2014-15, which will allow us to strengthen the economy and pay down debt. The average wage is up 20 percent since 2008. There is low inflation. Interest rates are the lowest in 45 years. Who does that matter to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a0a8010a5114b9ab79e5b7252cf0d88\u0022\u003EHon Kate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: Everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a93b62bc5a5e45249c9e998a694ae6c0\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: That matters to everyone, because it means people pay less on their mortgages, they have got more to spend in the shops, and it costs them less to set up their businesses. It really matters. Superannuation is up since 2008. It is up 22 percent higher than in April 2008. There have been 65,000 jobs created in the economy. Peak debt will be about 30 percent of GDP. This is all good news for New Zealand in difficult times. But it is all at risk when you look at the parties opposite that oppose everything that this Government does to get the economy moving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E We have lower business tax than Australia does. Does Greens-Labour support that? What about the 90-day trial period that has enabled 60 percent of businesses to take on new staff they would not have otherwise? Was Greens-Labour in favour of that? What about the starting out wage that would remove the barriers for our youngest workers and potentially create 2,000 extra jobs? Is Greens-Labour in favour of that? No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EWhat about the changes to the Resource Management Act so projects of national significance\u2014and, soon, regional significance\u2014can be moved more swiftly through the process so that we can get investments and jobs started? Was Greens-Labour in favour of that? No. Those changes were another thing that creates jobs. We have $1.5 billion committed to the Ultra-fast Broadband Initiative and the Rural Broadband Initiative, which are about preparing the economy for the future. Well, was Greens-Labour in favour of that? No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EWhat about the billion-dollar-a-year investment in the motorway networks in order to allow producers to get their products to port and to customers faster? This is fundamental for a strong, growing economy and infrastructure. Was Greens-Labour in favour of that? No. What about all the lower ACC levies for businesses, which means they have more money in the bank to invest in businesses and create jobs? Was it in favour of lower ACC levies for business? No. There was not a word from Greens-Labour. We have removed 170 unnecessary and excessive regulations from the rule books and the law books to save an estimated $200 million in costs. Was Greens-Labour in favour of that? No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003ESo my point here is that this Government has had a plan of action that it has progressively stepped through that has delivered real benefits to the New Zealand economy and, more important, has invested in the future of our economy through strong infrastructure, good regulation, and lower taxes and compliance for New Zealand individuals and business. These are the things that matter, and time and time again Greens-Labour has opposed this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe Greens-Labour platform for New Zealand is \u201CPrint the money.\u201D\u2014print the money. We heard about that from its finance Minister, \u201CXerox\u201D Norman\u2014\u201CPrint the money.\u201D It is spending money that we do not have and it adds to the debt beyond what we can afford. Those borrow-and-spend policies will threaten the low inflation that has made things more affordable for families, the low interest rates that have made it easier for people to borrow and maintain their mortgages, and the steady recovery that National\u2019s policies are delivering for New Zealanders. These are difficult times around the world, but New Zealanders know they have a Government that is focused on what matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022062f5e7f1aa34e9e8bb97e0771083de2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022062f5e7f1aa34e9e8bb97e0771083de2\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E If that is the best defence the National Government can mount after another shocker of a year for New Zealand under its stewardship, it is no wonder the soon-to-be-unemployed National Government backbenchers are looking so depressed going into the Christmas break, because you can see it in their faces that they know the game is up. They know that they have failed to deliver the brighter future that they promised New Zealanders 4 long years ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThey know that John Key promised to stem the exodus to Australia when he stood in Westpac Stadium, talked about the number of people going to Australia, and said he was going to do something about it, and they know that New Zealanders have realised that it was a hoax because in fact now Westpac Stadium is not big enough. Now it would actually require Eden Park to accommodate the number of people who are leaving to go to Australia every year under John Key\u2019s stewardship. The game is up. New Zealanders know that they were duped by National, not once but twice. National members will feel the consequences of that next year when they get to the ballot box, because New Zealanders are feeling it. New Zealanders are feeling it, and particularly they are feeling it in relation to employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EToday we are seeing the highest unemployment rate in 13 years under John Key\u2019s National Government. Whatever happened to the Job Summit? That was John Key\u2019s major focus when he became Prime Minister, getting people back into work and creating jobs, yet we now have 175,000 New Zealanders out of work. What is the Government\u2019s response? It is that the numbers bounce around a little bit. Actually, if you are one of the people who has lost their job, you do not feel particularly bouncy about it. I know that you are about to lose yours, Mr Speaker, but I will not go into that in any greater detail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWhat else has happened this year? We have had the Government Communications Security Bureau debacle\u2014John Key failing to read the reports and failing to take any responsibility for his own actions. Then, of course, we have had the ongoing series of debacles in education where three Ministers\u2014Craig Foss, Hekia Parata, and Bill English\u2014all signed off on the implementation of a new payroll system without thinking to ask anybody: \u201CWill it actually work? Will it work? Has somebody checked to see that when we hit this button it\u2019s actually going to work?\u201D. All three Ministers, including the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, signed it off without bothering to ask whether it was going to work. What was the result? Thousands of people up and down the country did not get paid, and thousands and thousands more got paid the wrong amounts, because the Government did not do its job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThat is not surprising though when we look at the Government\u2019s track record in education. It is a Government that has well and truly taken its eye off the ball in education. Its one solution this year to make things better for the education system was to make class sizes bigger. Every parent up and down the country knows that having more kids in front of every teacher is not going to improve the quality of the education that their kids receive. Yet John Key, even now, even after backing down on it in the Budget, still thinks it is a good idea. He just thinks they did not sell it well enough. He still thinks it is a good idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIt is no wonder the New Zealand public does not have any faith in this Government when it comes to education, because this Government\u2019s educational policies are all about ideology. They are about unregistered and unqualified teachers in charter schools, charter schools that do not have to adhere to all the rules that every other school in the country has to adhere to, and, of course, the Government thinks that education is a great place for people who want to make a profit, as we have seen with its public-private partnerships in schools, which have not saved the taxpayer any money. In fact, the one public-private partnership that it has tried to implement in the education sector has cost more than if it had just built the school using the good old-fashioned traditional method of getting the Ministry of Education to oversee its construction. It has been a disaster, and it has all been so that the National Government can create a profit-making opportunity for someone rather than actually looking at what the best outcome for education is going to be. It has been based on ideology. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIt has been a shocker of a year for the Government on so many other fronts as well. Let us not forget Nick Smith thinking it was all OK\u2014[Interruption] Grant Robertson will never forget Nick Smith thinking it was all OK for him, on ministerial letterhead, to write a letter for one of his friends, arguing for ACC cover for them when he was the Minister for ACC. He does not have the judgment to be a Minister. Now John Key is trying to jack it up so that he can be back in the ministry after Christmas. That is a disgrace. That is a telling commentary on John Key\u2019s standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002271fd3a74447147759953dd24cc83c322\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271fd3a74447147759953dd24cc83c322\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Let us get some facts out on the table. Police, corrections, and the Serious Fraud Office have had a fantastic year\u2014a fabulous year. There are falling crime rates. I think we are looking at the lowest crime rates in this country for 30 years\u2014the lowest crime rates in 30 years. There are reductions in reoffending. In fact, instead of 51 percent of offenders reoffending within 2 years, we have brought that down over this past year by 5.5 percent\u2014outstanding work by the Department of Corrections. The white-collar criminals who have been paraded through the courts by the Serious Fraud Office are having to face the facts and take account of the crimes that they have committed. So we have lots and lots to celebrate in this Government, and I am proud to be the Minister of those portfolios. This Government is proud of those police officers who are out there on the street and we are proud of those fantastic public servants in both corrections and the Serious Fraud Office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EBut what about the other side? Well, it is all doom and gloom over there, is it not? It is scaremongering that the sky is going to fall. Labour\u2019s police spokesman, Kris Faafoi, spent the year trying to convince everyone that there were cuts in the police budget. Well, I actually doubt that that man can read a set of books, because the police budget has stayed the same, and, what is more, it is predicted to stay the same. That is not a cut; that stays the same. That is not a cut at all. If you look at some of his press releases, they say that there is a \u201CGrim future for Police under National.\u201D They say \u201CThe mood of this week\u2019s Police Association conference is one of disappointment with budget cuts severely impacting on front-line policing.\u201D Well, I have got news for Mr Faafoi. Actually, front-line policing hours have gone up. There are more police on the front line now than there were 12 months ago, and this time next year we will see an increase again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EHe even went so far as to try to link budget cuts with sexual assault investigations, saying that we have been cutting back on investigating sexual assaults. Actually, that was a report from the Auditor-General which said that the Police had not trained some of the head-office officers in line with the proposals that the Auditor-General had put in front of them. It was nothing to do with sexual assault investigations at all. Mr Faafoi is creating facts to suit his story, but he did not convince anyone, and he certainly did not convince the Police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EHow about when he tried to put up that gangs were going to infiltrate the police because there were budget cuts? Who in their right mind would believe that? The Police came out immediately and said that yes, from time to time gang members do try to get into the police, but they always find them out and turf them out before they get anywhere near. It has got nothing to do with the budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EMind you, the pseudo-police spokesperson, Mr Goff, spent the whole year trying to justify the statement he made prior to the last election that we were actually cutting back on police recruits. Well, we were not. The Police said we were not. All the Police was doing was what it has done since time immemorial and balancing its recruits with its attrition levels. So yes, it does have to move around its numbers. Does that not make sense? But no, according to the police spokesman for Labour that was about budget cuts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003ESo then we move on to the corrections spokesman, Mr Charles Chauvel. Well, you know, they really have trouble with their maths over there, because when we announced what we were doing in corrections to reduce the reoffending by 25 percent we said that we wanted to see 600 less prisoners every year coming into prison.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022614b8185d85f45c4bd91216ebc301b3e\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: I think the word is \u201Cfewer\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f56a98bff3ec4317b215d51ff86c3285\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: All right, fewer. I do not mind. There were 600. So why did Charles Chauvel say that reducing prisoner numbers by 100 per year over the next 6 years is hardly anything to boast about? I would suggest that he goes back to school, because he might need some national standards in maths. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EHe went on and on and on, Mr Chauvel did, about the tabling of the contract for the Wiri Prison\u2014the building of the new Wiri Prison. He went on and on and on about it. We were contractually\u2014we were legally\u2014bound to table it. We had been in discussions with the Clerk of the House about how that would happen, what form it would take, and, of course, it was tabled well within the time. Then what happened from Mr Chauvel? Nothing, actually. His only complaint was that I turned the sod without telling people how much it was going to cost. Again, he cannot read. All of that was in the press release at the time that we turned the sod. Meantime, we have had a great year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u0022bced94fe85a34a1ea700207ece4e07e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bced94fe85a34a1ea700207ece4e07e9\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to offer some light relief to the debaters in the House this time and talk about something that everybody in the House supports. I am talking about our educational pathways for M\u0101ori students. We are very pleased to announce that, with the help of the Hon Hekia Parata, we have established leadership scholarships for students to attend M\u0101ori boarding schools. These are the T\u016Btahi schools. These are the schools that have for years produced M\u0101ori leaders\u2014even well known parliamentary leaders here. We have established these scholarships called Pu\u0101waitanga, which means to grow and develop and flourish\u2014hence the name Pu\u0101waitanga. These scholarships will allow 15 scholarships at any one time at each of the six M\u0101ori boarding schools. A student would take it and when that student finishes, the scholarship becomes available for someone else to take it through their years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWhat is so different about these is that they are awarded for scholarship and leadership skills, academic possibilities, cultural strengths, sporting skills. This is in contrast to many of the scholarships that exist for M\u0101ori schools at this time, which are for people who are hard to reach, or need relocating, or something like that. It is really exciting that each school will get 15 leading pupils who can go through the school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe schools are Hato P\u0101ora College, Hato P\u0113tera College, Hukarere Girls\u2019 College, Turakina M\u0101ori Girls College, St Joseph\u2019s M\u0101ori Girls\u2019 College, and, of course, Te Aute College. There are strong ties to M\u0101ori leadership from these schools. You might remember the Young M\u0101ori Party of Sir Apirana Ngata, Sir Peter Buck, M\u0101ui P\u014Dmare, Timi Kara\u2014all those \u201Csirs\u201D who came through the Young M\u0101ori Party and made great advances for M\u0101ori at the turn of the 19th century. It comes right down even today to people like Shane Jones, Te Ururoa Flavell, Hone Harawira, and so on. But the same schools have produced leaders Dame Whina Cooper, Dame June M\u0101riu, Dame Iritana T\u0101whiwhirangi; singers like the current Maisey Rika and Hinewehi Mohi; and artists like Ralph H\u014Dtere, Para Matchitt, and so on. So they do contribute. Also All Blacks like George Skudder, Buff Milner, Kent Lambert, Walter Little, our Piri Weepu, and Dallas Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EHeaps of people have come through these schools, and it is because they foster pride in being M\u0101ori. That is perhaps the most important thing. Although we have also created kura kaupapa M\u0101ori, these schools are not in opposition. They sit alongside and they offer choice to parents. For some, the boarding school environment can foster support and opportunities to pursue their education in that way, whereas kura kaupapa M\u0101ori are mainly day schools, and people go there for the M\u0101ori option, to talk M\u0101ori and learn in M\u0101ori as they go. So I cannot stress enough the importance of keeping these schools alive and keeping them going. St. Stephen\u2019s College has closed and Queen Victoria School has closed, but there is a possibility of reopening them, and people are talking that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EI went to an international indigenous conference in Calgary a few years ago, and there were no fewer than 30 ex-students from these schools\u2014M\u0101ori students\u2014at that international conference in Calgary. Those were the ones who went there independently. That is how common the graduates are in the leadership in M\u0101oridom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003ESo it is a really good-news story, and I am really happy that I am able to talk to it at this time. It is about always giving M\u0101ori students the opportunity to excel, providing the environment and the opportunity for them. The reason the school rolls are down now is largely due to the state of the economy at this time in the world and the hardship that is on a lot of families. I note that Wanganui Collegiate School, the second-oldest school in New Zealand, along with Te Aute College\u2014formed by the same Act of Parliament\u2014has fallen into trouble, too, and the Government has helped to bail that school out and keep it going. And it is important to have all choices available to us. So thank you. I thought it was a good-news story. Now everyone can get going and start yelling at each other again. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u00229a678e85475e4b1abaf22f999993dc86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a678e85475e4b1abaf22f999993dc86\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. In this general debate I want to celebrate yesterday\u2019s news that Petrobras will not be drilling deep in our waters this summer. And I want to celebrate those young Kiwis who give me hope, because they believe we can tackle climate change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EFirst up, I want to congratulate Te Wh\u0101nau-a-Apanui and their members\u2014for example, Elvis Teddy, who put his body on the line and put a line in the sand and said no to deep-sea drilling in his backyard. I want to congratulate and say thank you to people like Dayle Takitimu, who said: \u201CWe will, now and forever, stand up against government recklessness if it threatens that environment, and the livelihood of future generations.\u201D I want to thank Greenpeace and the hundreds of thousands of people who signed its petition to say yes to clean energy and no to deep-sea drilling. I want to thank the 99 percent of submitters to the exclusive economic zone regulations who said that the risks of deep-sea drilling were so high that it should be a prohibited activity. Unlike the Government benches, the Green Party believes that deep-sea oil drilling is not our future. It is at the frontiers of technology and incredibly risky, and if we saw a blowout like we have seen across the Ditch and like we have seen in America, the oil spill would be catastrophic for our fishing, our tourism, and our aquaculture. It would be catastrophic for our environment and our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe know that, in New Zealand, for all that risk we would see hardly any taxes and hardly any royalties\u2014because we have got the fourth-lowest Government take in the world\u2014and hardly any jobs for New Zealanders, and we know that the profits would flow offshore. I think it is important to recall that although the Government has picked deep-sea oil drilling as its big economic winner for the economy, it was the Prime Minister who slavishly rolled out the welcome mat for the Brazilians. The Government gave them and other companies tens of millions of dollars\u2019 worth of subsidised seismic surveys. We saw the Government literally amend the law with permissive exclusive economic zone legislation, and we even saw the Government call out the navy to protect the Brazilians from a single iwi fishing boat. Now the Government\u2019s plans are in tatters. Petrobras has surrendered its permit. Anadarko has announced that it is not going to be coming to New Zealand this summer. Now it is time that the Government goes back to the drawing board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWhy does the Government not look at clean energy? Why does the Government not look at manufacturing job solutions? This is what the country needs. This is what Pure Advantage, those business leaders in New Zealand, has said. We have a niche\u2014an economic niche\u2014when it comes to renewable energy like geothermal energy. They do not say we have a niche in deep-sea oil drilling. After all, renewable energy is always going to be cleaner and safer than fracking or deep-sea oil drilling. The Government\u2019s \u201Cdrill it, mine it, frack it\u201D plans are in tatters. They are symptomatic of the dirty, old politics and the polluted ideas of the current term. This term the Government has taken a decidedly hard-line, anti-environment path. The Government says that the \u201Cclean, green\u201D brand is simply fake, like the McDonald\u2019s slogan \u201CI\u2019m loving it.\u201D But you know what? Kiwis really do love our environment, and Kiwis do want to protect it. So while the National Government this term is acting like environmental vandals, burning the furniture to keep warm, it is trashing our brand and our environment. This is our basis in prosperity and our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EBut I do not want to be too pessimistic, because I want to talk about what gives me hope, and it is Te Wh\u0101nau-a-Apanui who give me hope. They get that the environment is important to us and to our economy. It is the business leaders at Pure Advantage who give me hope, because they get that tackling climate change is good for business. It is the youth who give me hope, because they get that it is their future at stake. This weekend we have got 600-plus young Kiwis and Pasifika converging on Auckland for Power Shift, the climate change conference, and we have got a handful of youth delegates over in Doha. These guys are inspirational, because despite what the Government is doing\u2014which is relentlessly attacking the environment, attacking the scientists, disgracefully weakening the emissions trading scheme, walking entirely out of the Kyoto Protocol\u2014these guys are not giving up. These guys say that since the Government has clearly shown that it is not going to act on the fundamental environmental, economic, and, most of all, moral challenge of our time, they are going to act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI believe that we can put our science-based, global, long-term interests first, above the short-term, narrow, vested corporate interests that we see from the current Government. I think New Zealand does matter to the world, and I think we can be leaders. After all, the answers are obvious, they are available now, and they are going to benefit our economy. Ultimately, tackling climate change is about jobs, energy efficiency, smart farming, and clean energy. Tackling climate change, the big issue of the day, is about the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u00222fd6f67e2ed44c21815b7f45986e0581\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fd6f67e2ed44c21815b7f45986e0581\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E What we heard from that Green member, Gareth Hughes, certainly makes Chris Hipkins put his hands on his head in despair, because they know that there is no hope when you have such a disunited Opposition with such crazy ideas. What we heard from the Green speaker over the last 5 minutes was nothing but negativity and the celebration of saying no. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EWhat I would like to talk about is the positive things that are happening around trade training. I was down in Christchurch the other day, looking at the employment hub down there. I am pleased to report that there are some fantastic things happening down there. The most important, I thought, was the 300 young men and women coming from Rotorua who are going to be working in the new year with Fletcher Building, Hawkins Construction, and other very reputable construction firms in Christchurch. That is a Government showing initiative, getting the timing right, and reinforcing the value of trades and the skills that are necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EWhen you stop and look at what the Government is doing, it is very focused, it is structured, and it is a balance between maintaining the entitlements of those who need support as well as stimulating the economy and not going overboard with debt. So when you look at the infrastructure report that was just released, there are 67 infrastructure initiatives that this Government is entering into. They have all got a focus on creating a far more competitive and productive economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003ELet us have a look at some of those initiatives. There is $5.5 billion to repair the terrible damage that befell Christchurch and Canterbury. There is $1.6 billion for ultra-fast broadband, and also the Government does not forget the rural community. The Rural Broadband Initiative is a very important part of that, and we know why it should be. It is because 70-odd percent of this country\u2019s export earnings come from the rural community, and we constantly need to remind all New Zealanders that we need the smartest and the brightest in those businesses to grow this economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EWe have got $5 billion going into the national electricity grid. That is hugely important, especially in the top of the South Island where the Kaik\u014Dura electorate is. We do need efficiencies there, because of the distance from the generators and distributors down in Islington, and so on. We have got $12.12 billion going into roading between 2012 and 2015. This is all very positive stuff\u2014creating jobs, doing the best we can, and working on things like the 2,000 jobs in the ultra-fast broadband roll-out, 2,700 jobs for people with regard to the Auckland and Waikato hospitals, as well as the Marlborough hospital, Wairau Hospital, and the private hospitals that are being built besides that. There are 1,000 more jobs with regard to the motorways, 240 jobs with the Tauranga Eastern Link, and 1,500-odd jobs with regard to the transmission power upgrade. It is just so very positive. And still the Government keeps finding resources to reinforce the trades and skills for the rebuild, and finding employment opportunities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EHowever, we have to mention the obstructive nature of the Opposition members, when they have said no to more gas and oil exploration and when they have said no to the very fine policy of the 90-day trial for new employees. We had 3,000 jobs that were created by having The Hobbit produced and filmed here. The irrigation that the South Island so urgently needs, the Opposition\u2014the Greens and Labour\u2014has obstructed, as well as the reforms around local government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EHowever, on the other side of it, I think New Zealanders need to be incredibly fearful if they move forward with a Greens-led Opposition into Government, because the capital gains tax is such a negative aspect that it will decimate those enterprising young people who reach out to get into their farms and grow their economy. The irrigation taxes\u2014it costs enough now for a farmer to be able to get water past his gate. Some of these irrigation schemes cost about $7,000 per hectare to get water past the gate. It will stimulate the economy by hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars, year to year, and benefit all of New Zealand. And what does Labour want to do? Tax it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00223d6a1ee8e0e94326b9540d87aa106de7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d6a1ee8e0e94326b9540d87aa106de7\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E \u201COn behalf of the Government, let me be clear that no one will be left to walk this journey alone.\u201D Those were the words that the Prime Minister used to make a commitment to the people of Christchurch that they would not be left to handle things on their own. And what has happened? We have got individual Christchurch people having to deal with insurers, and having to deal with the Earthquake Commission. They have been left alone, they have been abandoned by the Government, and that is why they have said that John Key\u2019s speech to them has been very disappointing in terms of the delivery. He has made many promises; that no one would be worse off, that the red zone offer was extremely fair, and then, in relation to the land grab in the central business district\u2014which I questioned him about today\u2014that the Government would work very fairly with people. \u201CWe\u2019re certainly not trying to rip anyone off.\u201D, he said. He said that a gun would not be held at the landowners\u2019 heads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EToday in the House the Prime Minister has stood by these commitments, despite the outrageous treatment of these landowners by the National Government. It was said in the House today that it is fair to pay a commercial property owner 50 percent of the amount offered to a homeowner in the residential red zone\u2014that is fair. Why is it fair? I mean, even the residential red zone offers were not fair for everyone. There were people who lost tens of thousands of dollars, but they were offered 100 percent of the rating valuation. Why do commercial business owners get offered only 50 percent in order to clear out of their land? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EHe pretends that it is a voluntary offer, but it is not very voluntary when you are staring down the barrel of a compulsory acquisition; when the compulsory acquisition provisions of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority say that it is the market value of the property at the time of the purchase, not at the time of the incident. That is not fair, either. He has said that it is fair to threaten owners of buildings in the central business district with compulsory acquisition and to hold up the money for at least 12 months so that they are forced to take less than they should, essentially because they know that the result might in fact be worse under a compulsory acquisition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe threats are being made to people who thought they could rely on a National Government. The most polite word said by former National Party supporters whom I have spoken to is that this is very \u201Cdisappointing\u201D. Others say that it is a travesty and that they had been betrayed by a Government that promised them so much. It promised to stand by them, and it has not stood by them at all. Who would have thought compulsory acquisitions\u2014a land grab\u2014would be the hallmark of a National Government? It is something that it would accuse us of doing, but it is not doing it for the sake of the central business district recovery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EAll the Government is doing is compulsorily acquiring land in order to put in a frame. That is why a lot of people are saying that they are being framed in order to reinstate an increase in the property values inside the compact central business district, inside the frame. That is not within the purpose of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority legislation, and I think that the Government is going to find itself very hard-pressed to actually run an argument that this is required for recovery. It is actually about property values and nothing more, nothing less. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EPeople are frightened of speaking out, and it is not surprising, because the Government attacks everyone who speaks out. Carpers and moaners are the people who live in the technical category 3 land areas who answered an online survey run by a residents association. The \u201Cenemy of recovery\u201D is how the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery describes the Christchurch Press. I mean, for goodness\u2019 sake! It is the enemy of recovery for daring to, on occasion, want to hold the Government to account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI want to read from a constituent who is too frightened to be named, because she is fearful of what will happen: \u201CWe cannot afford to sell at this price and we can\u2019t afford not to. If we do not agree to the offer, there will be a compulsory acquisition and we won\u2019t see a payment from the Crown for maybe up to 2 years. During this time, we would still have to pay the mortgage on the land and rates, and we would not have funds available to buy another property to operate our business from. It is an impossible situation for us.\u201D It is impossible. They are terrified of speaking out because if the Government finds out who they are, then they know that they are going to be put on the back-burner, and they know that there are going to be consequences to them speaking out. There are every time. It is not good enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022 data-id=\u00225f42cf2cfe7043d0a71a245cd845a866\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f42cf2cfe7043d0a71a245cd845a866\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E Rather than respond to those comments from Lianne Dalziel, I think it is probably important at this time to remind us at this stage what this debate is about. It is a general debate of ideas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022730b8fa012044ffdaadd321d29c2ce57\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: Respond, if you can. Let\u2019s hear the answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231b152c525ce43af82d11e1d3e32ce3e\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there is another one of those Christchurch members banging on over there. Is that not interesting? Nearly $20 billion is going into the city, and you have got someone over there from that city who is banging on and does not know what he is talking about, like usual. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EComing back to the point that I was going to make, I think there is one thing that we all agree on in this House, and it is that to improve the standard of living in New Zealand we need to improve the income of New Zealanders. I think we get pretty much universal acceptance of that\u2014to improve the standard of living in New Zealand, we need to improve the income of New Zealanders. The only debate in the House today is about how that might be done. Most of our opponents over here have put up an argument against every single thing that potentially could improve the standard of living for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EBut I want to talk about the sector that I come from and represent, which is the primary sector. Food production is now not keeping up with the growing world population. It is not keeping up with it. We are going to have a food shortage in the world within the next 15 years, unless we become more efficient in our production of food from the agricultural sector. The agricultural sector, or the primary sector, in New Zealand represents 71 percent of our total merchandise export trade. Primary exports up to March for the 2012 year were $32 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E The question I have for the House in this debate is: what would our opponents, if they were to be elected\u2014that is, a Green-Labour Government\u2014do to this sector? Let us just have a look at what they have said they would do, for a start. The first thing they are going to do is introduce an emissions trading tax on methane from animals. The second thing they have said they are going to do is introduce a capital gains tax on the agricultural sector or on the business sector. The third thing they have said they are going to do is introduce a nitrate limit on the amount of nitrogen fertiliser that can be applied. The fourth thing they have said they are going to do is put a restriction on water use and a ban on irrigation in some areas of the country, or restrictions on irrigation. The fifth thing that they have said they are going to do is put a restriction on livestock numbers in New Zealand in some areas. None of these things are based in science, all of them are ideologically driven, and none of them stand up to scrutiny. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EWe will listen to the Green Party, no doubt, go on about the current discussions going on in regard to the Kyoto Protocol. Well, when I hear the Green Party members talking about that, and about the various conferences and protests, and so forth, they are going to, it reminds me a lot of a bunch of drunkards going to another booze-up to talk about the disadvantages of alcoholism. You sort of cannot understand how they could be so\u2014I know the word is not able to be used, but have such a double standard, if you like, that they would travel thousands of miles in aeroplanes around the world, to stay in flash hotels, by the thousands, and attend conferences to talk about what they could do to save the planet. Have you ever seen or heard such an oxymoron as that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EChina is now our second-largest trading partner, and as we speak there are members of Parliament, being paid by the taxpayer, protesting against free-trade agreements and negotiations going on in this country at the moment. How is it that you can have a growing economy in a country where 71 percent of its export merchandise comes from a particular sector, yet we are going to protest against the export of those products to the world? How is that? Someone will need to explain that to me slowly and thoroughly in a few moments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThe largest company in this country is Fonterra\u2014there is no doubt about that. I can understand the concern from some that it does control such a high percentage of this country\u2019s export earnings. I can also understand some commentary that suggests that it is the wrong structure, but I do not agree with it and the evidence is that they are wrong. I can do no better than to quote Gareth Morgan, who is often quoted as a commentator on various things, when he commented in 2004: \u201CSo far, the industry has simply morphed into a vehicle for generation of wealth for a class of land-owning, milk-producing suppliers whose\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u002285079c3a118941949ac4f83bd74d4072\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285079c3a118941949ac4f83bd74d4072\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E The National Government is too hard on Christchurch. Immediately after the February 2011 earthquake in Christchurch, the Government did succeed in providing comfort to the people there who had been affected. There were visits, as we know, by the Prime Minister and genuine concern was shown. Later there were Government programmes for those whose land had to be red zoned. The Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority and the Stronger Christchurch Infrastructure Rebuild Team were established, and later the Christchurch Central Development Unit, as government instruments for the rebuild process. All of this did appear to be a good start and had the support of most people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EBut since then the Government\u2019s actions to assist the recovery have not been so positive. In fact, the National Government in many ways has been too hard on Christchurch, and, in fact, the Government is now no longer so much a part of the recovery as part of the problem. Last Saturday\u2019s march for democracy in Christchurch shows the extent of the resentment, which is still growing, about Government actions in Canterbury. The open letter on behalf of the protesters, delivered yesterday, on Parliament\u2019s steps, to the Prime Minister by Lianne Dalziel, Eugenie Sage, Megan Woods, and me sets out the issues in some detail. But it all began with some serious mistakes made by the Government concerning red zone land. The use of 2007 valuations in Christchurch and 2008 valuations in Kaiapoi was unfair to too many red zone people. There were some winners, but far too many losers. Those with genuine grievances about what they were offered were not reviewed by any genuine review process. The offer of 50 percent of the valuation of land that did not have any homes built on them and the offer of 50 percent for the land of uninsured homeowners was also grossly unfair. Excuses made about land damage did not make any sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ECurrently, the requirement for red-zoners to leave their homes by 30 April next year is also unfair and urgently needs review. It is too hard on too many of those people, because there is still a severe shortage of affordable homes in Christchurch to buy and the influx of workers for the rebuild only makes that worse. New sections coming on the market will be too late for many of these people, and there is also a rent explosion. I had a person approach me only a few days ago to tell me that they had had an increase of $100 a week, from $450 to $550 in one hit. This was a family with nine children. And yet the Government still refuses to act on the rent explosion. New Zealand First has repeatedly called for a short-term rent freeze, until things quieten down, but still nothing from the Government. It is too hard on renters in Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EAs far as the central city is concerned, the issue now is the failure of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority\u2019s process to involve landowners in development proposals before resource consents are obtained. This is intimidatory for those people, and the authority should see that they get the opportunity to be involved, if possible. Price offers also need to be reasonable and to reflect the future opportunity value of that property, and accusations of bullying by some do have some validity, especially when only half of the real value is being offered. Earthquake Commission repairs of homes are also inadequate. This week we had, in answer to a question, a list of figures about how many properties had been repaired. That is just window dressing. Yes, some repairs have been done, but far too few, and most still have not been attended to. So there has been a loss of confidence by many in Fletcher\u2019s, and there is a bit of a \u201Cdon\u2019t care\u201D attitude by that particular organisation. Fletcher\u2019s should never have been the sole project manager. It needs competition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EBut when we come to education, matters get even worse. Again, the Government was much too hard on an already traumatised city. The Parata bombshell was just disgraceful. It shows clearly the use of the earthquake aftermath to pursue what was really just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6825e4b660d46529d16f56a72ac2d79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6825e4b660d46529d16f56a72ac2d79\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I reckon the people of Christchurch would be much better off if they did not have naysaying politicians running the city down all the time. The fact is that this National Government not only has poured billions and billions of dollars into Christchurch and the people of Christchurch but also has poured its heart and soul into the rebuild of Christchurch. I applaud what our Ministers in this Government are doing for the people of Christchurch, and we will begin to see, as time goes on, the economic benefits that will come with the Christchurch rebuild. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThis Parliament has one would-be finance Minister who cannot do the maths, one would-be finance Minister who thinks that printing money is the way to economic progress, and, thankfully for the people of New Zealand, one actual finance Minister with a clear programme to build sustainable growth based on savings, productive investment, and exports. At the same time, under Bill English as finance Minister, we have moved away from the debt, the property speculation, and the excessive Government spending that marked the 9 years of the previous Labour Government. National is focused on building a more competitive and productive economy. That is essential if businesses are to have the confidence to invest in growth and to invest in jobs. Alongside this, we are responsibly managing the Government\u2019s finances, delivering better public services. Just while I am on that, we had the financial reviews for the Department of Corrections and the Police today, and the Labour\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c1bc51b74e1463f8ec0d150bee4e6dc\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: How did that go?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223592834da974557b48785f27827e9a0\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: How did that go? That is a good question, because for the time set down for both of those financial hearings, the Labour Opposition was out to lunch, New Zealand First was not there, the Greens, I think, offered one contribution, and I had to let the Commissioner of Police go after 35 minutes. The Opposition had run out of steam. It was an opportunity, once again, for Peter Marshall, the Commissioner of Police, and Ray Smith, of the Department of Corrections, to show what a good job those two departments are doing for the people of New Zealand. They should be congratulated on working within budget and providing better public services. That is exactly what this Government is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI now want to talk about building the economy. The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit movies brought extraordinary opportunities, colour, and life to Wellington and to New Zealand, both in jobs and investment and in the creation of a wonderful film industry for New Zealand, with plenty of work for actors. The \u201CHobbit-haters\u201D over on the other side did go to the premiere\u2014good on them. They have, obviously, no shame. But it is not just the big projects in the big centres that are building the economy in New Zealand, and are so very important. [Interruption] And the junior whip yawns. The junior whip does not get it. Once again, the Labour junior whip\u2014this is all too big for him. The junior whip does not get it. Yes, I think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf6314c46ed349c2a4a1a2143e6ac538\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think we are sick of the ageist contributions from the former Play School presenter. I think she needs to get into the present when she is in the House, and refer to the senior whip by that title.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b3b77ccaf88427eaf66adf70350de05\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is barely a point of order, but it just is, in that appropriate nomenclatures should be used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022259dc82a723c46468b08a9270bc13901\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to address the big issues that are facing New Zealand today. If the junior whip wants to have a bedtime story, he can turn to his colleague, who, I am sure, will read him something at about the level he understands. In my own part of New Zealand there are some fantastic initiatives under way, providing enormous economic benefit to both the local region and also wider New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI want to talk about irrigation, something about which I am hugely enthusiastic and supportive. The face of South Canterbury, North Otago, and Central Otago has been transformed with irrigation. Jobs have been created both locally and further afield. There are skills now in those towns that emptied out in the 1980s, and generally there is a sense of buoyancy in those regions that, but for the support of the Government and the irrigation investment fund, simply would not be there. It is a good-news story for my region. I support it and I applaud it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ba1aa0ad30b46059aecb5bc787bd5d8\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: What about that cycleway?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289bedafc978d40888982936671aec53a\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Our own senior whip\u2014an excellent senior whip\u2014says \u201CWhat about the cycle trails?\u201D. Well, the Otago Central Rail Trail\u2014[Interruption] They laugh at that over on the other side of the House. They do not get regional development. They do not get that $7 million is introduced into the local economy every year because of the Otago Central Rail Trail. Small businesses are being established. In fact, there is a brand new caf\u00E9 in Ophir. I recommend it to anybody travelling through, for its excellent coffee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227ced0318710642eba647f38c739a5f67\u0022\u003EWaitaki District Council Reserves and Other Land Empowering Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022311513b130414d4f814acca5982e978d\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022aaefa258fd2b461e9691bb9201255ed1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aaefa258fd2b461e9691bb9201255ed1\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The House is in Committee. Kia ora t\u0101tou. Good afternoon, honourable members. We are in Committee on the Waitaki District Council Reserves and Other Land Empowering Bill, and the question that the Committee has to consider first is that clause 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdd36109b5ee41578dfde691e25a1de3\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Can we just take all questions as one question, debate it, and put it together? Have you got an amendment, have you? [Interruption] Sorry, I thought we wanted to get it through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206ad4a0febde41d180b5e503717df2b3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is perfectly entitled to seek leave. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022275a0de0a6d84a1faf6e5580d10aa992\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, we are just trying to be helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da029a5c9f1a4008b3386b90d39b1acd\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is trying to be helpful. [Interruption] I am putting it. The question is\u2014[Interruption] Order! [Interruption] Not yet. The question is that clause 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220fe6493cf9e54ef693671782ac50401e\u0022\u003EClause 1  Title\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd2e54c3cf88438a8f510e378e7a6f27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd2e54c3cf88438a8f510e378e7a6f27\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to stand and take a call on clause 1 of the Waitaki District Council Reserves and Other Land Empowering Bill. In doing that I want to just perhaps explain to the Committee why I believe that it is so important to go through this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227361c4cd1dc14b1cadb77c121d5ebd79\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Can\u2019t do that on a clause 1 of a Committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0e96848c30d4d3c99e0005585859b19\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, with the leave of members, and just to set the scene of this bill, I think it is important that we do address the clauses of the bill in their entirety. Of course, clause 1 of the bill refers to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228edbec7021c84f4395fa1c7ff3d6ab03\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s delaying tactics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b2cf9c226e04199a9cae4a9c686ad44\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is not, actually. I am trying to find my copy of the bill. I think that is important, because there are members of the public back in \u014C\u0101maru who care a lot about this bill and have had quite a bit of dialogue with the Local Government and Environment Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223bacd0ff25e426daf447bb55dbb1b25\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ve waited for years for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296eac82ac9df4ca298fa6c2b92d7f748\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: No. I think it is probably fair to them that this process is not truncated in any way. If it is truncated in any way, they will not feel as if their word has been listened to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe Waitaki District Council Reserves and Other Land Empowering Bill deals with three lots of land: one in \u014C\u0101maru, one in Palmerston\u2014neither of those are controversial, and they were passed through the select committee\u2014and the third part, known as Forrester Heights, which has been controversial throughout the passage of this bill through the Parliament and, indeed, in the local community. That is why I think it is so important that we give good consideration to the entirety of this bill in the Committee stage. I will not talk too much on the first two parcels of land, but Forrester Heights was land that was wrongly designated back in the 1930s as a reserve under the Reserves Act. That designation, as it turns out, was wrong. Through the process of the consideration of this Committee, it is being determined that, actually, the land was reserved in aid of borough funds. It was an endowment in aid of borough funds. Once that is settled, the Waitaki District Council can then dispose of the land as it wishes. It is that which has caused so many problems for some of the locals. They do not see the difference between the classification of the land and the use of the land. With that full explanation, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002249ff02be0e4945548950abd77ed029d1\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002208472e12e002476e8a799b1114e7d7ed\u0022\u003EClause 3  Interpretation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002220c998f98af04fb4bc99bf0086ba24ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220c998f98af04fb4bc99bf0086ba24ca\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Supplementary Order Paper 150 proposes that clause 3 of the Waitaki District Council Reserves and Other Land Empowering Bill be amended to \u201Cdelete the definition of Lookout Point land\u201D from the bill. The effect that that would have is that Lookout Point, or the Forrester Heights portion of land, could not be considered as part of that bill. I think it is worth reminding the Committee and perhaps the Green member Eugenie Sage that doing that goes against the wishes of the local authority. This is the Waitaki District Council\u2019s bill. This is not a Government bill. This is not a member\u2019s bill. This is a local authority bill. The local authority wishes to have this matter dealt with in Parliament, which is why it brought it to us. What the Supplementary Order Paper does really is perhaps satisfy the wishes of the Green Party, but this bill is not about the wishes of the Green Party. This is a local bill. It is about what the local authority wants to do. Therefore, I will not be supporting the Supplementary Order Paper. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 150 in the name of Eugenie Sage to clause 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224463ba6fdc7a41b281869ba6f3bd56f5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 14\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 106\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; Mana 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000337\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ff5ed4d7030e4e33b8156a4cf4e85eb6\u0022\u003EClause 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022927cb30b7f784c74a1f2b9b928b1bce5\u0022\u003EClause 5  Existing reservation revoked\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022764ec7236d9a4006bc0df1c6bb0f7992\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022764ec7236d9a4006bc0df1c6bb0f7992\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak on the Waitaki District Council Reserves and Other Land Empowering Bill, specifically looking at clause 5. I want to raise just a couple of points, first, about the bill. I want to acknowledge the chair of the Local Government and Environment Committee, Nicky Wagner, but, importantly, I also want to acknowledge Jacqui Dean because I think, as I have said before in this House, she has done a lot of work on this bill. It has been an important local issue. We know there were a number of issues that related to the Palmerston Showgrounds and Lot 1, DP 345820, but one of the issues that is relevant to Supplementary Order Paper 150, which Eugenie Sage has put up, is about the section of land referred to as Lookout Point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to go now to what the findings of the select committee were with regard to this land, and I want to say that I think this issue has been settled. Not only has there been another piece of legislation before the House that has looked at this issue, and not only did we hear a number of submissions, but also we had several Government agencies looking at this, including Land Information New Zealand, the Department of Conservation, and the Commissioner of Crown Lands. We have also had submissions from the council on this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to touch specifically on the commentary regarding Lookout Point and raise this issue. Obviously, there was an issue about what the status of that land was, and what we found with regard to this matter was that \u201CIn 1937, by Order in Council, the Lookout Point land was set apart as reserves for an endowment in aid of the funds of the Oamaru Borough Council and, erroneously, made subject to \u2026 Title was issued in 1942 to the land now comprising Computer Freehold Register \u2026\u201D\u2014I am not going to mention the name. I think we did settle this issue, and from my perspective the select committee spent a lot of time going through the records via Land Information to resolve it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI acknowledge that Eugenie Sage has this Supplementary Order Paper, but I think it has been made very clear that the confusion of the status did arise out of semantics, that the land was reserved as endowment in 1885, and that it was not intended that the land itself be classified as a reserve. It was the case that we received extensive advice on this, and this is based not only on the evidence of submitters but also on the advice from officials. So although I understand that there has been a long history to this issue, I really believe that not only has the local member done a huge amount herself locally but also the select committee, on another piece of legislation, has looked at this issue thoroughly. We have found that we believe that the confusion arose out of semantics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI understand that the Supplementary Order Paper is here today because Eugenie Sage\u2014and I am interested to hear what she says on the matter, but it is quite difficult to see how that Supplementary Order Paper can be before this House, given that we have had evidence from so many different agencies, given that they have gone back through the records, and given that we have had another parliamentary process around it. I do believe that this issue is an important issue locally for the people of \u014C\u0101maru, and I do believe that, through this bill, Parliament has the opportunity to clarify the status of this land. Through substantive evidence we have come to the conclusion, as I said before, that the confusion arose out of semantics. From that advice we have concluded that Lookout Point is not a reserve, and we have confirmed it as being vested in an endowment in the council in aid of borough funds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI realise that it is a long road to have got here. I respect the submissions that have come to the select committee. I respect the fact that one member of the select committee has taken a different view, and I am interested to hear that, but I think that for the people of \u014C\u0101maru and for the local member, Jacqui Dean, who spent a lot of time working on this issue, this issue has been resolved, and that it is important that members of Parliament recognise the huge amount of evidence and the huge amount of work that has been done by a number of Government agencies to clarify the status of that land. I am confident that we can finally settle this issue by the bill addressing the clerical error made in 1937, and by clarifying the status of the land as an endowment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI am pleased to say that I do support this clarification for the people of \u014C\u0101maru, for the fact that there has been so much resource gone into this\u2014[Interruption] Members opposite laugh\u2014members opposite laugh\u2014but, actually, it was a very collaborative process, and many people have put energy into clarifying this. When I say that it is important for the people of \u014C\u0101maru, I ask members to go back through the press clippings, as I have, to see how often this issue has been raised and to see that it has been going on for a long period of time. It is time we resolved this issue once and for all. That is what we are doing through this bill, through an evidence-based process. I am pleased to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc71e624d693430982b78a2ada5a34d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc71e624d693430982b78a2ada5a34d8\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe. Yes, the Green Party is not supporting this bill because of the way in which this whole issue of Lookout Point has been dealt with. I certainly recognise the previous speaker, Nikki Kaye, and the considerable time and effort that the Local Government and Environment Committee went to to look at the evidence. But the Green Party has been convinced more by the submissions that were put forward by the residents of \u014C\u0101maru and the evidence that they brought\u2014particularly people like Mr Monks and Helen Stead\u2014that the initial decision to vest the land as a reserve was not made in error. That was indicated by their evidence, the photographs, that showed that the land was treated throughout the 1890s and the early 1900s as a reserve in terms of Arbor Day plantings and for other recreation, and that it had been treated that way by the council by being designated in the council plan as a reserve, until that designation was uplifted in order for the council to proceed with the Forrester Heights subdivision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo it is an issue of principle, because the council, in deciding to proceed with that subdivision, which would raise funds for the restoration of the \u014C\u0101maru Opera House, did not consult well with its community. It went through a non-notified resource consent process. So there is a considerable amount of resentment amongst people in \u014C\u0101maru who care about this land, who use it for recreation, and who enjoy the views that it provides over the town and over the harbour, that the council proceeded on a non-notified basis. When that consent lapsed, the council proceeded to renew it so that it did not lapse, and none of this was done with any opportunity for the public to get involved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EClause 7 of this bill would, by making the land endowment land, allow the council to proceed with the subdivision, and to sell it. So Supplementary Order Paper 150 in my name changes that clause so that it would not see the land as being endowment land for the council to dispose of. It would remain as reserve land, because there is substantial public value and community value in this land remaining administered by council and open to all, rather than being subdivided.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E It is unfortunate that the \u014C\u0101maru Opera House has not got other sources of revenue that could be used for its restoration. It is also interesting that members opposite are very supportive of the protection of heritage in \u014C\u0101maru, but we do not see that same commitment in Christchurch, in terms of the way the Christchurch Earthquake Recovery Act legislation has been used to expedite the destruction of heritage there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBut we have had a difficult issue in front of the select committee with natural heritage in terms of Lookout Point and its recreational values, as against the historic heritage of the white stone buildings and the council wanting to free up some money to restore those. But that is why we are opposing this part of the bill in relation to Lookout Point, and that is why the Supplementary Order Paper is there: so that the council cannot just dispose of it and go ahead with the subdivision that it has resource consent for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00223b09a75a2ebf4ee590130872eafbfd00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b09a75a2ebf4ee590130872eafbfd00\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Just very quickly, in reply to the member Eugenie Sage\u2019s speech on Supplementary Order Paper 150, treating land as a reserve over a period of time does not make it a reserve, and that is exactly what this bill, the Waitaki District Council Reserves and Other Land Empowering Bill, is addressing. I think that the comments on issues around the district plan are a red herring, because what this bill does is deal with the status of the land, and the status of the land only. This land cannot remain a reserve, because it never was a reserve. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00221348b8cea5f94ac2a959a3bae1724fdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221348b8cea5f94ac2a959a3bae1724fdc\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Labour\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Seldom do I disagree with the work and comments of Eugenie Sage\u2014she is a thorough member and is very knowledgable\u2014but on this particular clause, clause 5, I believe that she is wrong. I understand the issue of principle, and I absolutely agree that the consultation process by the Waitaki District Council was poor. In fact, we told its representatives when they came to the Local Government and Environment Committee that their consultation process had been poor. I do not think anybody on the select committee would disagree with that. But at the end of the day that is not a good enough reason to not support this bill, because it has been 2 years in the making. Well, probably longer than 2 years, but 2 years before coming to this House, at least, so I think it is time that it was resolved and finished. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI understand the member in the chair, Jacqui Dean, wanting the opportunity to act as a Minister, because this will probably be her only opportunity to be sitting there in the Committee chair, and I understand her wanting to drag it out. What I do not really understand is why she would want to do that, in that there is agreement with her on this bill. We support the work that she has done. We congratulate her on bringing a bill to this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI do believe that the select committee did a lot of thorough work to ascertain the status of the piece of land that was in dispute, Lookout Point. There is no doubt that there was confusion in the evidence, and confusion over what had happened there, and there were a number of submissions put to us that raised doubt about the status of this land, whether it was endowment land or whether it was reserve land. At the end of the day, I had to believe what was told to us by officials who went away, who did the legal checks, who went through the historic records, and who came back and assured us that the decisions we were making were the correct decisions. You might not agree at times with everything officials say, but we did send them away, not once but several times, to get us more information about this piece of land. We wanted to make the best possible decision, and I think that we have made the right decision about the only controversial part of this bill, and that is the status of Lookout Point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe last thing I would like to say is that I want to commend two people who made submissions to the select committee, Warren Crawford and Barry Monks. I know that some on the Government side were a little scornful of Barry Monks because he was a Labour Party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231e1d0b80f0c43f2bf8ff45707293460\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: The failed Labour candidate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ee6f03eed6e46ac828deacb8444e33d\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Maggie. I was going to say it myself\u2014I did not actually need your help\u2014because I am not ashamed of the fact that Barry Monks was a Labour Party candidate. I do not know whether that means that anything he says is wrong, but, if Maggie Barry had read his submission, she would have seen he did an incredible amount of work. He went into the records, he went to Dunedin, and he searched to try to get the right information about this bill. I want to commend Barry Monks for his submission. I am sorry that at the end of it, it did not stack up because there was one fundamental mistake in what the whole argument was premised on. That was that he believed a bill had been passed that, in fact, changed the status of the land, or secured the status of the land. In fact, the bill never came to the Parliament, it was never passed, and, therefore, the premise on which he was basing his argument did not stack up. That does not mean that it was not a very good submission, and I thank him\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222eb5c07e06ce45c48fa52ad11eda1d04\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: It wasted a lot of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b66892c32efd4fc39efd4dfd076df2be\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Goodness me! For the people who are listening\u2014Maggie Barry, who has not stopped interjecting through the whole of my speech, is saying that democracy is a waste of time. Well, we do not believe that it is. We believe that democracy is a very important part of our system here in this Parliament. Barry Monks and Warren Crawford took the opportunity to go to the select committee, present a submission, and appear before the committee. In fact, they appeared through telecommunications rather than in person\u2014we are so modern in our committee. Maggie Barry\u2014that is democracy, and they have the right to do that. We should be applauding them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2a797e160df4d65bfc35e5f3179d996\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: He was wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215cc780dcbde4ea8a691c91a1decfcf0\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: It is not, as she is interjecting, a waste of time. It was a very important submission. We would like to see this bill passed. There are only seven clauses. The member has had the chance to stand up and be a Minister. Let us get it over and done with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u002266babb22614d4ff08ded520791b4e35a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266babb22614d4ff08ded520791b4e35a\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I take a call on behalf of New Zealand First on the Waitaki District Council Reserves and Other Land Empowering Bill. Likewise, we are concerned only about this land at Lookout Point, overlooking \u014C\u0101maru township. The rest of the bill we are happy with, but it is this main contentious piece of land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EI think that what people have to remember is the fact that this is not just about bits of paper, it is not just about legal technicalities, and it is not just about who was right and who was wrong. This is about a physical piece of land that has been there since the 1800s. This land has been there, overlooking the township, and laid out by generations gone before us for the future of that town, but has been used by the people of \u014C\u0101maru and of the district for more than 130 or 140 years as an open piece of reserve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003ETherefore, four or five generations of people have always had the expectation and the understanding that that open, large piece of land was for public use and for the public of \u014C\u0101maru to use. It went up to Lookout Point, and it formed part of the extension of the very extensive Lookout Point piece of land. Therefore, quite rightfully, there is a significant portion of the community who today say that it is wrong that it be carved up and turned into a subdivision for a short-term gain of $3 million or thereabouts of profit in order to plough the $3 million into upgrading the \u014C\u0101maru Opera House. Once the $3 million is gone, and the land is gone, and there are hundreds of houses on what was a 100-year-old reserve it will never be there again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EAs I have said in this House before, councils all over New Zealand are constantly trying to acquire more land, and trying to acquire more public reserves. Just the other day Auckland Council announced that it had just bought a large piece of land up at Pakiri, north of Auckland. It is a very sizable piece of land\u2014several million dollars worth\u2014which will be a huge improvement to the park area, and the council is very proud of it, and Aucklanders will be very proud of having that additional reserve land under public ownership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EI know that many MPs often do not get involved in this, because they do not get involved in local government. It is something quite foreign to them. But those who have been in local government know how important it is to have reserve land in public ownership, and how much effort goes into buying public land for reserve purposes. For an expanding population\u2014and New Zealand, when I was a child, had 2 million people and it has now got 4.5 million\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d2461064f1d4202946fd12e3addc435\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t realise the member was that old.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022419a71f6c44d4eb1808965c23bfbbfa1\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: You did not realise who was that old?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022753034b4cdbc4db9a641e27e31b0d2c7\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: You.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f863fee83924e0aaa3bba02085458b6\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there were 2 million people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc3a7c61407b40bbbfc9f13b7027be78\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Two million people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0482ff3956c4a8bab30a5ce19e4e245\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there were 2 million people when I was a child.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216b0a1c1313f4032bb2dffc6b6bdd172\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve worn pretty well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6ef14e4d7e34a7a9e4f20395ed8843e\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly; I have. So now that our population is growing and is heading towards 5 million, and in another 20 or 30 years it will be 6 million, open reserve land becomes more and more and more precious. In a township like \u014C\u0101maru, where there are significant numbers of people saying: \u201CWe don\u2019t want that lovely big ridge of land that overlooks the town being chopped up and turned into houses for a short-term gain.\u201D, I tend to fall on the side of those who are there to protect the land and keep it in perpetuity for our future generations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EI think there was enough doubt, even though the officials said that after analysing everything it seemed to be that it was an endowment piece of land, rather than a reserve piece of land. There still seemed to be a certain area of doubt there, and it was basically down to interpretation. I think that if you threw enough Queen\u2019s Counsel and learned people at this you could come up with different answers at the end of the day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003ETherefore, in that respect, where there is an element of doubt and where there is a significant element in the community saying: \u201CWe want to keep our land and we want to preserve it.\u201D, I tend to err of the side of the reserve. New Zealand First, likewise, does not believe that it is in the interests of the area of \u014C\u0101maru to start carving off reserve land for houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022f88f0ba2fbcf445aa9f3bed023e00e6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f88f0ba2fbcf445aa9f3bed023e00e6c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, I want to commend the member of Parliament for Waitaki, Jacqui Dean, for the work that she has done on this bill, the Waitaki District Council Reserves and Other Land Empowering Bill, but, more particularly, for the work that she does for her absolutely huge electorate. She is one of this Parliament\u2019s most effective local members of Parliament. The way that she has championed the cause of this bill on behalf of the Waitaki District Council speaks volumes, and I am not surprised at all that she has got a majority about the size of Mount Cook in her electorate for a seat that was once held by members opposite. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to comment quickly on a few of the issues specific to Lookout Point. I actually want to commend Annette King for her thoughtful contribution and her comments about officials. Annette and I do not agree on everything, but we do have respect for officials. We on the Local Government and Environment Committee, as a select committee, gave them very specific instructions. We said \u201CProvide us clarity about the origin of this land.\u201D, and they came back\u2014not conditional, not saying there was any doubt, but absolutely definitive\u2014and their advice was that this was endowment reserve for the local authority. On that basis Annette King has, quite honourably, said \u201CLook, we accept that.\u201D, and that is why Labour has taken its position on the bill. I commend the Labour Opposition for taking that principled stand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to particularly challenge the Greens and New Zealand First, because I have witnessed so many speeches in this Chamber in which they stand up for local democracy. That is what they say they stand for. Here we have the locally elected council, the Waitaki District Council, coming into Parliament and saying \u201CWe think the best use of this land for our community is for it to be a subdivision, and for the council to be able to enjoy the $3 million that it will receive for the sale of this land to be able to offset the debt and the rates of its communities.\u201D And here we have the arrogance of the Greens and New Zealand First saying that they know better than the Waitaki District Council. How many votes did the Green Party and New Zealand First get in the Waitaki community that they believe they can veto the view of the local council? It is truly arrogance from those two parties. Really, their view on local democracy is that if councils agree with them, then of course they will back them, but if they disagree with them, they should veto them. That is effectively the position that New Zealand First and the Green Party are taking in respect of their double standards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI also want to commend my colleague Maggie Barry from North Shore, because there is something that she understands that Andrew Williams will never understand\u2014that is, time is money. Time is money. You see, when you have got a piece of land that is worth $3 million, every week of delay is a cost to that local authority of $3,000\u2014$3,000 every week. That is the cost. We know this from Mr Williams\u2019 experience in North Shore, where rates went up so hugely. We know that in North Shore there was an appalling record in terms of delays in getting resource consents and building consents\u2014incredibly slow and bureaucratic\u2014and that there is no understanding from either the Green Party or the New Zealand First Party that time is money and that we need to progress these things on so that there is not that expense. That applies to resource consents, that applies to building consents, and that applies to the passage of this bill. That is why the member in the chair, Jacqui Dean, and my colleague Maggie Barry from North Shore have had the view that we need to get on and deal with these issues in a timely way, because every week that we delay is a cost to the ratepayers of Waitaki of $3,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe very last point I would wish to make on this bill is to ask why it is that members in the Green Party and New Zealand First do not trust the locally elected council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 150 in the name of Eugenie Sage to clause 5 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ca15a11bee624c139496eae7ee009917\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 21\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 13; New Zealand First 7; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 98\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000384\u0022\u003EClause 5 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002285b393f49ec24b3f9a76b5c16057c452\u0022\u003EClause 6  Vesting of fee simple estate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00228e5c8725c39e4198bf5225456ef48076\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e5c8725c39e4198bf5225456ef48076\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E This part of the Waitaki District Council Reserves and Other Land Empowering Bill, which vests those parcels of land in fee simple, is the part that probably matters the most to the folk who are in the parcel of land in \u014C\u0101maru and the folk who are in the parcel of land in the Palmerston Showgrounds. It matters a lot to them that this bill passes through this House, because they have bought property or they are in property that a council and they mistakenly thought had a title that was able to be transferred. It was determined that it was not transferable, and so this bill is correcting those mistakes made by a council. The impact of that will be positive for those two families living in those two homes, and so this is quite a critical part of this bill for those people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EAlso, of course, this clause relates to Forrester Heights, and, again, it will correct a historical mistake whereby the land was wrongly designated as a reserve. It never was a reserve; it was a mistake. It was correctly gazetted back in\u2014I forget the year now, but in the late 1800s as an endowment in aid of borough funds, so in effect it was endowed in the predecessor of the Waitaki District Council, effectively as a land bank. The current council of the day wished to have that designation corrected, so that it can do whatever with that piece of land. Whatever it does is up to it, and so it should be. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EClause 6 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d1fff8c7dd640b5a1210e849533d2e2\u0022\u003EClause 7  Lookout Point land declared to be endowment land\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00224dc936470a984e16bba534196d3e1c54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224dc936470a984e16bba534196d3e1c54\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The question now is that clause 7 stand part. I would just like to advise the honourable member Eugenie Sage that the amendment to delete clause 7 and the cross-heading above clause 7, which is set out on your Supplementary Order Paper 150, is out of order as being a direct negative of the question. OK? So therefore the proper course of action for the member is to vote against the clause standing part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227a8a6f7cbce447e880832659174f8092\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 7 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 98\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 21\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 13; New Zealand First 7; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 7 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a029991755d142e3bf59b0b25dd1fcf2\u0022\u003ESchedule\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d27588a704c14b60a7dd0758c73daf91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d27588a704c14b60a7dd0758c73daf91\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The next vote we have is on the schedule. The amendment of Miss Sage is also out of order as it is inconsistent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002282dd8118475b49fa866eb254e36e3329\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the schedule be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 105\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 14\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 13; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000393\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000394\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f9f046b7e87649ca9f6ab941a4ad75d1\u0022\u003ESouth Taranaki District Council (Cold Creek Rural Water Supply) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b4b97e87b3044f60b414234e8fafea5b\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0ca124181a54a20b3f28367b6e0e9de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0ca124181a54a20b3f28367b6e0e9de\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the South Taranaki District Council (Cold Creek Rural Water Supply) Bill be now read a second time. It has been my privilege as the member of Parliament for Whanganui to sponsor this bill, a local bill from the South Taranaki District Council, to vest with Cold Creek Community Water Supply the water-race scheme that the members of that community built for themselves back in the mid-1980s, according to an incentive scheme that was provided by the Government in those times as a dollar for dollar subsidy, building water-race schemes, with the proviso that they increase productivity. The local farmers got together and put together a water-race scheme, built on the Cold Creek water catchment, and built that scheme, and so lifted the productivity of farms in that area, but provided fresh and clean water for the consumers, both animal and human, within that catchment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI want to thank the members of the Local Government and Environment Committee, who have considered this bill. I want to acknowledge the chairmanship of Nicky Wagner, and all the parties who conducted themselves really well, and in a good debating sort of a manner, over the course of the consideration of the bill. I recognise that the bill has\u2014and I am grateful for\u2014the support of the bulk of the Parliament. The Labour Party, New Zealand First, United Future, ACT, and the National Party have indicated support for the bill. Those dissenting have been the Green Party, the M\u0101ori Party, and the Mana party. I want to acknowledge too that the dissenting votes that they will cast are really based on philosophy. The fact is that in respect of the M\u0101ori Party, for instance, the M\u0101ori Party members have consulted with local iwi as to which way they would want them to vote in respect of this matter. Iwi have asked that they not vote for it. Iwi have said that they do not see themselves, in respect of local tangata whenua, to be in a position where they would be consulted by the district council on this. They are upset as they do not feel that they have been consulted in the way that they should have, but see themselves as Treaty partners and so should be exercising some governance over the allocation of water at regional council level or at central government level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EIn respect of the Green Party, the Green Party has said that it believes that the water-race scheme should be retained within community ownership. It has been my contention to their member responsible for this bill, Eugenie Sage, that in fact this is the lowest level of community ownership that you can have. It is owned by the people who built the scheme. It is owned by the people who use the scheme. In the end, we end up in a situation where the Green Party believes it should really be held by the territorial local authority. I suggested to Eugenie, a little tongue-in-cheek, that if it was a kibbutz she would vote for it. She said: \u201CYeah, but it\u2019s not a kibbutz.\u201D I actually said that it is a collection of farmers working together for the common good, using a natural resource, which is pretty much a kibbutz in my language. However, I do not profess to be an authority on that. As far as the honourable member Hone Harawira goes, I think he would just be against it because he is against most things, but there we go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI wanted to acknowledge the philosophical differences. In any event I believe that the Local Government and Environment Committee worked in good spirits, across parties, to be able to ensure that the transition of the bill went smoothly and all issues were raised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EConsultation, as I have indicated, was an issue for iwi. The council felt that it had consulted with iwi. It has an iwi liaison group, representative of local iwi, and in raising it time after time over many years, and also giving the issue publicity through the newspaper and running the community notification, the council felt that it had consulted. It had consulted with iwi by going through its iwi liaison committee with, as I say, all iwi represented. Iwi felt that they should have been consulted and approached, iwi by iwi. To try to give some rectification to that, Cold Creek Community Water Supply actually held a hui at the T\u0101riki hall. I was present and chaired the meeting. We did have a discussion with iwi about this. They ended up at a place where they did not see that they could instruct the M\u0101ori Party that they were happy or comfortable for them to be able to vote in that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThen, to cover off who should own a water scheme, as I said the origin of this scheme was that it was a dollar for dollar subsidy\u2014dollar for dollar with the taxpayers and the local farmers. No ratepayer money went into it. How the South Taranaki District Council got to be the owners of this scheme was really that at the time a number of the farmers who were part of the construction of this scheme were on the Egmont County Council. They saw that as a viable place for the Government to put its money, so it would be used according to the scheme. The Government required somebody\u2014you know, with hindsight they could have used the local iwi, or they could have used Kiwi Cooperative Dairies at the time, which went on to become Fonterra, but because they had members on that council they decided they would vest it with that council. Then with local government amalgamation in 1989 it came into the South Taranaki District Council list of assets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E I have said who has paid for it. They were the farmers and the taxpayers of New Zealand. The taxpayers\u2019 investment was to be based on productivity gained by the implementation of the scheme, and the taxpayers have had their dollars back many, many times over. So since the mid to late 1990s the Cold Creek water-race scheme members have been administering the scheme and acting as the owners of the scheme. Members of Parliament may well say, well, why change that? If it is being run by them now, they are keeping the profits of it, these are put back into the scheme, and it is costing the council nothing, why is it so important for those people to be able to have their names on the title or to own the scheme? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe reason is simple, and it is totally around the human condition, and that is that at the time this was built, rates for borrowing money were exorbitant. Those of us who were trying to buy houses or farms or whatever in those days will remember those days when the interest rate was 18 percent per annum and the penalty rates were 22 percent and 24 percent. Struggling young farmers who were doing their best to build up a business, like the honourable member Shane Ardern and his brother, were borrowing money on those rates and yet they had to put in, I believe, $67,000 in respect of their farm to build this water-race scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003ESo having gone through that process and having sweated blood for a scheme that many other people are benefiting from right now, they want to own it. I can see that as being a perfectly reasonable place for them to be in, bearing in mind that there is no real right of ownership on the constituency of the South Taranaki District Council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThere were questions around health issues because a clause of the bill had given the South Taranaki District Council an indemnity in respect of public health issues, and the Ministry of Health made it quite plain that they cannot opt out of that. They cannot be given an enduring indemnity in respect of public health issues, because they will continue in the way that they do for other district councils over the catchment of the whole of their constituency. The fact is, though, that they will not bear a responsibility for matters that rest with the Cold Creek company: the provision of clean water, access to water, and those sorts of things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe council will have the responsibility to make sure that there is monitoring in respect of the quality of that water, and, if they are found wanting, they will lead the prosecution in respect of that. If someone sets up a business drawing water from Cold Creek and they were requiring public health notifications and monitoring, these would still rest with the council, albeit the day-to-day responsibility of providing clean and potable water through the scheme still stays with the owners of the scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI want to finish off now just by thanking again members on the Local Government and Environment Committee for the work that they did, and congratulating the members of the Cold Creek water-race scheme company on the work that they have done over about 12 or 13 years now to reach this time. They are very pleased to know that within the next few members\u2019 days they will have vested back with them this asset that they worked bloody hard to achieve for their community. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022398e17604907494baea70c0ad3870903\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022398e17604907494baea70c0ad3870903\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Labour\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Labour will support this bill, the South Taranaki District Council (Cold Creek Rural Water Supply) Bill, right through to its final reading. When it was introduced into this House, at that time we said we would support it going to the Local Government and Environment Committee, but we wanted to hear the evidence, and we wanted to hear what the community had to say, what the local authority had to say, and what iwi had to say on this bill. That is because there were some concerns. There were concerns particularly around overriding the Local Government Act. There were concerns around the way that the whole thing had been managed and fears that a lot of these decisions had been made behind closed doors. I know that my colleague Andrew Little will go into this a little more and will raise some of those concerns that he has heard up there in the Taranaki area. But, at the end of the day, when we looked at the bill in its entirety, how it emerged, what it is to do, and the safeguards that have been put in it, then we believed that we ought to support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThere were lots of concerns, however, over iwi consultation. I think that this was not handled very well at all. I think that we need to say to both those who will own this scheme and the council itself that they need to improve their consultation. They need to start earlier. They need to be talking to and involving people in the area. Perhaps through lack of practice they did not achieve a good level of consultation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe other concern was whether this was privatisation of an asset, an asset that had been built up with a dollar-for-dollar subsidy from the Government\u2014not from ratepayers but from the Government. You could argue that this is a type of privatisation because it goes into the hands of those who manage it and use this scheme, but you could also apply that argument to those who are given a subsidy to build community houses but still provide that service. You would not say that we had privatised their housing. In terms of this particular scheme, they have put up money, they have managed it, they have been the ones who have used it, and they are the ones who occupy the land on which the water is used. So we believe that we ought to support this bill at this stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EIt has had a long history, this particular scheme, going back over a decade. The South Taranaki District Council has been wanting to divest the scheme to the users as far back as the late 1990s. In fact it did a lot of work when we were in Government towards the divestment of this scheme. Unfortunately, it stalled in about 2006, but the company that has got it now has been managing the scheme since 2001. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EOne of the issues that we raised was around the use of the water out of the scheme for the people of \u014Ch\u0101kune, because there are particular times of the year when the people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221513cbe7fbdb46128bf865d28caf92ca\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: \u014Cpunake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c7b9985615b4744ac2f6a3fc7e74585\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: \u014Cpunake, sorry. There are times of the year when the people of \u014Cpunake actually need access to this water scheme. One of the things that we were assured by the council and by the company was that they have agreed to continue the current arrangement for this scheme to supplement the \u014Cpunake water supply in an emergency. That was when it was used. So that was something that we were very clear that we needed to have tied down: that the people there would have access to the water.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EAs I said, we will support it. It has been a long time in the making. It has not been a particularly good process, but I do commend Chester Borrows for bringing it to the House, as a good local member would.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022f867cda86fa14d86acab4b5ee3c464e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f867cda86fa14d86acab4b5ee3c464e9\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to be making a contribution on the South Taranaki District Council (Cold Creek Rural Water Supply) Bill, and I want to begin by complimenting the work of Chester Borrows, the member for Whanganui, who has not just championed this bill but been such an effective advocate for a very large electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f75a72b899b34f46874fe39d227db182\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: This is the self-admiration club again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224290b27b13544204b15230f9b8e39997\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he is such an effective member. I would love to compare how many votes Chester Borrows got in Whanganui with how many votes Andrew Williams got. Could Maggie Barry remind me?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022513535a7d83042559946a6d6ba11d908\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: He was the fifth-lowest polling candidate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f62d5c71b18d40f58f6638995b7bcfae\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: He was the fifth-lowest polling candidate in North Shore, as compared with the sponsor of this bill, who, I am not surprised, got not just 1,000 votes more than Andrew Williams got, not 10,000 votes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022275e9a625640408fb4043f55387748ab\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s that got to do with it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ba97a54d0294da09e37da36f0fbe833\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member interjects with \u201CWhat\u2019s that got to do with it?\u201D. Well, it has actually got quite a lot to do with it. It is to do with your mandate to speak for your communities. Chester Borrows has a very strong mandate to talk for his Whanganui electorate because not only is he a damned good Minister, he is actually an excellent advocate for that very large electorate. What this bill shows is that Chester Borrows is not just being an effective advocate for the city of Wanganui, but actually goes the hard yards for those smaller rural communities that are part of his electorate and the community that is going to benefit from this bill. You see, this bill oozes common sense\u2014oozes common sense\u2014and I think every member of this House would know that if there is a member who champions common sense, it is Chester Borrows and what is in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWhat this bill enables is 162 members of the Cold Creek community water supply scheme to be able to run their water scheme as a cooperative. Who in this House would oppose a bunch of 162 property owners who want to get on and run their own water supply? In my own electorate, I have got lots of these water supply schemes, and they are run very effectively because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295b77122298d4227b334f0dd0ddf72ea\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Because more than half of it was paid for by the taxpayer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022755c692aadc04f38aaaac34a26c7d16d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Andrew Little, who has interjected a number of times, is ideologically opposed to New Zealanders doing stuff for themselves. He hates it. He wants people to be dependent. He cannot stand the idea that people might be able to do things for themselves and have a water scheme that provides their community with a good supply of water that is run by their own community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWhat is interesting is that on this bill, and on so many other things, there is an ideological split within the Labour Party. You see, you have Annette King, who made a very sensible contribution. She said in a very pragmatic, common-sense way that if the people of this community want to run their own water scheme, that is a good thing, and, providing there are proper checks in the bill, she is prepared to support it. On the other hand, you have got Andrew Little representing the hard left of the Labour Party, which hates people doing things for themselves. He indicates by his interjections that he is opposed to this bill, and all members on this side of the House say \u201CHere we go again. The Labour Party is all over the place, as it has been all this year, not able to resolve the ideological rifts within the Labour Party, and we have no idea where it stands.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWhat we do have, though, is concerning opposition from the Green Party to this bill, and I am not surprised by that. You see, the Green Party is opposed to any bill that represents pragmatic common sense. It will always find a reason to get in the way of New Zealanders being able to do their own things. It is interesting in respect of what I call the ideological ratchet, which the Labour Party and the Green Party members so often operate. If a council wants to buy a water scheme, they say that is good and it should be allowed to do that. But if ever a council wants to divest a water scheme, they say you cannot do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022daaa5dac968d406da7609245e31f98e9\u0022\u003EHon Chris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: Asset sales.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b3963aff05b4aa89bfd2f361550c9cd\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. My colleague from Napier says that you then get into an ideological rant around asset sales. Well, actually, this is. This is one where a community has said \u201CHey, we have got a water scheme.\u201D The people who run it and use it on daily basis would like to run it for themselves. The local council says it thinks that is a good idea. We have even put a protection in Chester Borrows\u2019 bill that requires there to be a referendum amongst the local people\u2014the only people who are affected by this bill\u2014to have their say. And now Andrew Little and Eugenie Sage say they are going to stop and oppose communities making that decision for themselves. The arrogance of those members! And do you know what it really illustrates? It illustrates the huge risk to common sense if this country ever faces a Labour-Green Government, because every member on this side of the House knows that the ideological hard left idealism of the Labour Party is always going to trump and is going to get in the way of communities like Cold Creek being able to get on and run their own water scheme. That is what is going to happen, and this little bill actually exposes the risk to common sense that there would be in the event that Labour and the Greens were to form a Government. It is extraordinary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to just follow through Eugenie\u2019s argument. It goes this way. Because the Government provided a subsidy many years ago to provide good quality water in this community, as it did all over New Zealand, then the referendum on the future of this Cold Creek rural scheme should be over all the people who contributed. Well, let us just test that at a practical level. That means you have got to have a referendum over 4.5 million New Zealanders as to whether the Cold Creek community water supply of 162 people are able to get on and run their own scheme. Well, it would actually cost about $3 million to have a referendum over a scheme that is not worth that much. But that is the sort of ideological nonsense that you get from the Green Party. That is when people are not allowed to have the common sense that Chester Borrows advocates overall. The co-leader of the Green Party Metiria Turei is questioning that. That is exactly the ideological view we got at the Local Government and Environment Committee from the Green Party, that everybody who contributed, which is the taxpayer, to this scheme should get a say in the future of it. Who in their right mind would spend over 3 million bucks on a referendum about which most New Zealanders would say \u201CLook, if the local people want to get on and do this, why would Parliament get in their way? Why would we object to the local people running their local water scheme as a cooperative?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214da4b4138364130a04add6436d54167\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Can we quote you on that when you become the local government Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b3b35e8cca740b7b28b3343a94f56d8\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I ask Mr Andrew Williams, who is interjecting, what he has got against the people of South Taranaki\u2014162 people. All they are asking Parliament to do is to let them run their own local water supply? They are not asking for a single dollar of subsidy from the local ratepayers in running the scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262798448c724412f9e65f474d1cd7211\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s because they\u2019ve already got it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1fada7c8d5f410d9156368b16439851\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member Andrew Williams interjects and says they have already got it. Well, actually, throughout New Zealand the Government provided subsidies for setting up water schemes. That was part of actually improving the clean water supply for communities and I think that is a good thing. We are a practical party of environmentalists over here. We are providing subsidies right now as a Government for cleaning up lakes. We are actually spending more money than any Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225178034feaef4b208f75e1d8dba22f21\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I was waiting for you to pick up the Hon Nick Smith, but he referred to another member and referred to that member as being me, and it was quite incorrect. He said it was Andrew Williams when it was actually Andrew Little, and I do not like to have my name used in that manner incorrectly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f49c794671554e1d8abc63801739513b\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure that was a genuine mistake, but the member will be alerted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292a9f8c4b443403b8331aafc32f4269f\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I want to assure you it was not in any way a mistake. The Andrews\u2014both Williams and Little\u2014have interjected during my speech indicating their opposition to this bill, and I am challenging both of them and asking why they are opposed to common sense. Why are they opposed to the people of South Taranaki being able to run their little water scheme, as occurs in so many parts of rural New Zealand on an efficient local basis? The truth is that they are members for bureaucracy, they are members for extra cost, and they are members who actually have no regard for New Zealanders being able to get on and run their own little water supply for their communities. Members on this side of the House say that is sensible and we say it occurs all over New Zealand. We should give that opportunity to the people of South Taranaki who use the Cold Creek community water supply scheme. We support them. We support them doing that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227be85bca544c479b85b8e68de3b27313\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re going to hang yourself at this rate when you\u2019re local government Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ec62a249aa44febaf61abd273ef4b89\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member Andrew Williams interjects, and I say to him that if there are members in other communities who would like to get on and run their local water scheme in a cooperative way such as this, that is something that members on this side of the House would be happy to support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022b04d0ec941554dfdae3f48575ae108c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b04d0ec941554dfdae3f48575ae108c3\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Is it not rich to hear Nick Smith lecture this House on giving communities the chance to run their own affairs? This is the Minister who took away from the people of Canterbury the right to vote for their regional council, and he comes to this House and he tells us that members who might oppose this bill want to take away the rights of local communities to have control over their own affairs. Have a look in the mirror, Dr Smith. I know it is not pleasant, but when you do you will see somebody who took away those rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhile we are on Dr Smith\u2019s contribution, could we not have just a little bit more generosity from Dr Smith about the fact that the taxpayer has contributed to this scheme, because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022928c1bc9075f463dac31bea225ee26f6\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: And so many others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220789b3a59dfc4121a6931b8b6a4cf4b1\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed, but the impression being given by Dr Smith is that this was all the work of the local community, nobody else has done anything, there is this terrible injustice being created here, and if only we had just let the local farmers run this right from the beginning, right from day one, everything would be fine. This has been a partnership between the local community and the taxpayer. That should be recognised, and I do not think Dr Smith in his contribution did that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI am going to take only a short call on this matter. I was not on the select committee, the Local Government and Environment Committee, that heard the submissions, but I do have two or three issues that I want to raise. Annette King has outlined the Labour Party\u2019s position on the bill, and has done that very well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOf the two or three issues that I want to raise, the first of those is around process. I know that other members in the House will raise the concern that iwi have raised about the process. I am looking here at a newspaper article from the Taranaki Daily News in 2010 that makes it clear that the last time iwi were consulted about this by the council was in the year 2000. That is a whole decade in which iwi were not consulted about the future of this scheme. That simply is not good enough. Annette King has registered that point on behalf of Labour, and I want to register it again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn processes like this it is vitally important that the local community is engaged, and in this case, in particular, the local iwi. They have said very clearly that their stance on this bill\u2014and I know that we have already heard from Chester Borrows that the position of the M\u0101ori Party is, in fact, based solely on this point\u2014is that the iwi are taking a principled stand and saying that they are not prepared to see this bill supported because they simply do not think they were consulted sufficiently well. That is their right, but it also points to the fact that we do need a lot more work done on the way in which consultation happens on these issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe second point of process that I want to raise I raised in the first reading debate, and that is the way in which this proposal was put to the South Taranaki District Council the last time it was debated, or when the vote was held. That was in August 2011\u2014August last year. That was a split vote. That was a six to four vote of the council. I think we need to be very careful, when bills come up as local bills to this House, to acknowledge that there will not always be unanimous agreement within the local authority that sends a bill to this House, and it is only fair that in the discussion of a bill like this we acknowledge that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI also in that first reading speech raised the fact that the people who showed up at the South Taranaki District Council to promote this, to promote these ideas, were Chester Borrows, as the local MP\u2014as it should be\u2014but then Neville and Shane Ardern. It presents to me some significant difficulties when you look at the minutes of that South Taranaki District Council meeting, which I have previously tabled in the House, and you see the presence of Neville and Shane Ardern, making statements about what might happen if the council did not vote for the bill to come to Parliament. I think we need to be very careful about the role of MPs, particularly when there is a family connection. I said in the first reading that I respect Shane Ardern, but I think the impression could easily be given when those two gentlemen arrive, along with Chester Borrows, to the South Taranaki District Council and make comments about what will happen if the council does not agree to send a local bill through. Essentially, what they said was that they would find a parliamentary means of achieving the goal. That is not acceptable. That is poor process, and it is the poor process that has characterised this over the last few years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe need to ensure that when local bills come here we have a clear and honest conversation about the community\u2019s views on these issues. We also do not want to see members of Parliament arriving along at a meeting of a local council and making all kinds of veiled, or otherwise, comments about what may or may not happen if the council does not agree to put the bill before the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI do not have a lot more to add to the particular situation. The Labour Party has decided to support this bill on the grounds that this will have community ownership for this water resource, but I do think it is vitally important that we acknowledge that this was a joint project between taxpayers and the local authority, and in the future I would like to see a far better process for consultation with interested groups such as iwi and a far more open and transparent process about what happened inside the council in terms of it coming here. There are certainly people in the South Taranaki community who do not support this, and I think that should have been recognised more clearly by the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00220686ef344ecf43c7ba298d24e77ced29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220686ef344ecf43c7ba298d24e77ced29\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call on the South Taranaki District Council (Cold Creek Rural Water Supply) Bill. I am particularly pleased because some of the statements from Government members indicate that the Government is very worried about a Labour-Green Government in 2014. I look forward to being part of that Government. I think the one thing I do agree with Dr Nick Smith about is that this bill brings to bear some of the issues of principle, which is one of the reasons we are opposing this Government, because it is all about a privatisation agenda. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt is fascinating being in the Local Government and Environment Committee and having what seems like a small local bill come along that throws into relief these big issues of principle about privatisation of community assets, especially essential community assets around water. So I certainly congratulate Chester Borrows for his very good work as a local member on bringing the bill to the committee. The Green Party supported it at the first reading in accordance with the convention to support local bills, but it has been the further information that has come through the select committee process, through public submissions, that means the Green Party will not be supporting the bill at this reading and subsequent readings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis bill is needed\u2014those wanting the bill need it\u2014in order to transfer ownership of the small-scale water-supply scheme that was built in the 1980s to rural landholders in the area. There are about 160 dwellings, and about 400 people. The water supply is used primarily for farming purposes. One of the reasons we oppose it is because the Local Government Act 2002\u2014and one of the areas that the Government has not amended, thankfully\u2014contains quite explicit provisions that restrict local councils from disposing of infrastructure necessary for providing water services in their districts. So without this local bill the council could not divest itself of the scheme, because the number of households that the scheme serves exceeds the threshold in the Local Government Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAs other speakers such as Annette King have mentioned, this desire by the scheme users to divest the scheme goes back to the early 1990s. Then they were very concerned that future councils would corporatise or franchise the scheme. Those fears have not been realised, so we do not see why there is a need to privatise the scheme. That is because there has been quite significant public funding of the scheme. There was a 1984 Crown grant of $1.28 million, which met half of the construction costs. Also, I understood from the submissions presented by the South Taranaki District Council that there had been an effective ratepayer subsidy for some of the scheme\u2019s operation costs as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBut one of the major reasons the Green Party is now opposing the bill is because of the strong submissions by iwi, and the potential injustice that the privatisation would result in. There was a submission from Paraninihi ki Wait\u014Dtara Inc. It was very concerned about the privatisation affecting the value and the potential rental return from its leases in perpetuity over M\u0101ori reserve land in the scheme area, because the scheme infrastructure, the head works, and the reticulation network are all improvements. So in terms of privatising the scheme, the value of those improvements is not reflected in the rental value of the land that is on this perpetual lease. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt is also concerned\u2014and this concern is even more serious\u2014that there would be quite a lot of uncertainty over whether water from the scheme would be available to its lands in future. As the incorporation noted, a number of waterways in Taranaki are already under pressure in dry periods during the summer, and many rivers and streams are fully allocated. Some of the leaseholders who are leasing land from the incorporation on a perpetual lease also own blocks of freehold land. The incorporation was concerned that the current water permits issued by the Taranaki Regional Council might be transferred from the leasehold land to these freehold blocks, and so the incorporation\u2019s land would potentially in future no longer have a certain access to water through the water permits issued by the council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe incorporation made some suggestions about how the legislation could be amended to provide certainty that M\u0101ori reserve lands would have the certainty of access to water. The select committee did not accept those amendments. Given that the land was first confiscated then given as M\u0101ori reserve land for perpetual leases, there is potentially a major second injustice caused by this legislation if there is any risk of M\u0101ori reserve land being denied water permits in future. So that is one of the reasons we are opposing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EDr Nick Smith, as is often a characteristic of Dr Nick Smith, promoted a lot of misinformation about the other reason we are opposing the bill, and that is in relation to the referendum. We have never proposed that there be a referendum over the whole of New Zealand as to whether the scheme be divested. It is a referendum over the whole of the South Taranaki District that we propose. The bill, as it was amended in the select committee, provides for a referendum over only the scheme area\u2014an area that could be served by the scheme. So it is over a very small part of the district, not over the whole of the district, which is what the Green Party supported. We want, given the public money that has gone into this scheme, all of the district to be involved in that referendum. But it is typical of the National Party\u2014and we have seen that, too, in the changes to the Local Government Act 2002 and the withdrawal of the mandatory referendum on any reorganisation proposals\u2014that it wants to restrict the number of people who have an ability to vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo for those reasons, firstly, the very narrow area that the referendum would be conducted over; secondly, the fact that there is a potential second injustice to M\u0101ori landholders from the proposal; and, thirdly, that substantial public money has gone into constructing the scheme\u2014it has been subsidised by ratepayer funds\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfa82d5f981542aa8f669be30074885a\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: Taxpayer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207483bad15634cb6a9a5d935b9bb57ee\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and it had a major investment of taxpayer revenue of $1.8 million, thank you, Ms Barry\u2014the scheme should stay in council ownership. The council is quite capable of administering it and managing the scheme for the benefit of the users, not privatising it and seeing those users get potentially quite significant private benefits, given the enormous value of water, particularly in summer dry periods. So for those reasons, the Green Party will be opposing the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002224969359f7424da4a9da766ad11216bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224969359f7424da4a9da766ad11216bb\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to speak on the South Taranaki District Council (Cold Creek Rural Water Supply) Bill in its second reading. Also, as other members have done, I want to congratulate the local member, Chester Borrows, on not only bringing this bill to the House on behalf of his local authority and local ratepaying constituents but also for appearing before the Local Government and Environment Committee on several occasions to make some pragmatic and practical explanation of questions that were raised during the course of the select committee\u2019s consideration. Nicky Wagner, as usual, is doing a wonderful job\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290b60420118842a8953f7221754c0307\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Here comes the self-admiration club again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022830d176c7d5445ae9b6854758b8b60bd\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in chairing this select committee. It is not easy, actually, for the chair of the Local Government and Environment Committee to put up with the likes of some of the members on it, who are\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a998322c9314389a6a13dcc0de93782\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: Always fighting amongst themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022258190fcdecd47dcb1d3e585d5e39293\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014always fighting amongst themselves, and the reasons seem to be far, far away from some of their consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI just want to pick up the point that the previous Green speaker, Eugenie Sage, noted towards the end of her speech about a referendum not being held over the whole of the South Taranaki District Council area\u2014nor should it be. Rates for rural water schemes are not collected from the whole of the South Taranaki District Council area. The rates, when the scheme was rated, were collected over the area of benefit accrued to those\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3734844fb784d0994f49b721149de05\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: The member doesn\u2019t know what she\u2019s talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adc28460f8cc49a3980d7814f882ba80\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the member does know what she is talking about. Under the rating legislation for rural water schemes, they are rated across the area of benefit. So it is just and it is the right thing to do that when there is a referendum that it is done over the area that is affected by the rural water scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe area that I have the privilege of representing, Waitaki, is absolutely peppered by rural water schemes. Some of them came about, actually, as a result of farmers utilising the Chinese water races, which are an amazing network that is still standing today. The water races, of course, were used in the business of getting gold and sluicing for gold. They were so well constructed\u2014they could teach us a thing or two about water races\u2014that they are still now being used in some of the water schemes around Central Otago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EAround North Otago groups of farmers, as with the group of farmers that this bill relates to, got together many years ago\u2014sometimes over a hundred years ago\u2014and decided that they were better off working together to get a supply of water from, say, the Waiariki Creek or the Kakanui River. So they formed a committee back in the day, they dug the trenches by hand, and they laid pipes by hand. One of the things they did not do was asset management plans, because they were not required back in the day, so a number of councils around New Zealand have spent considerable time trying to find out just where those pipes go. The old-timers know, because they were the ones who put them in, or their fathers or their grandfathers put them in, and they helped, so they know where they were. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI remember when we lived out in the country. We were on the western rural water scheme. Not only did we have slaters in our water and occasions when the water would also run out\u2014which was irritating as a young mother\u2014but also when there was a leak Whitestone Contracting, the local company, would have to come out and spend days trying to find just where that leak was. That would be a charge upon the farmers and consumers such as ourselves, so councils brought asset management plans into being, and I think that was a pretty good move. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ENow we know more about rural water schemes. They have a really rich history in New Zealand. Just as in my region, the farmers who took water from the Cold Creek community water supply scheme did the same thing. They decided that it was to their benefit and that it would be far more efficient for the 162-odd families to work together for a rural water scheme. They were the beneficiaries of a Government scheme at the time that was a dollar-for-dollar subsidy. Well, good on them. Good on them for forming a committee, having the wherewithal to decide that they needed to deal with their water issues, and for applying for and getting a dollar-for-dollar subsidy. Hallelujah! I think that is fantastic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWhat puzzles me occasionally about the response, particularly of Labour and the Greens, to the fact that this rural water supply is now going to go into the ownership of the farmers is that they seem to object very strongly to public money then going to the benefit of the private operators. But then I think to myself about Labour\u2019s failed housing policy that they release and release in the hope that anybody will take any notice, which they do not. The numbers are, tragically, all wrong, but that is par for the course. Labour is happy to subsidise people into houses, but it is not happy for Government money and a subsidy to go into a rural water scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI can only conclude from that that Labour and the Greens hate farmers. It is a theme that underpins a lot of the philosophy of the Labour Party and the Greens. They simply cannot conceive of the fact that farmers are underpinning the absolute economic wealth of this country. They cannot accept that. Philosophically, the Greens and Labour cannot accept that the ownership of the Cold Creek community water supply could possibly go into private hands. Well, I can. I think it is a good thing. I think those farmers should be commended for this work and for bringing this bill to the House. I think the South Taranaki District Council should also be commended for understanding and recognising that a local company running a rural water scheme is actually going to do a better job than a council. It is well understood, particularly in my area, that local control of a rural water scheme means you get local good sense, and that local good sense can save money for those ratepayers and has everything to recommend it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u00221f1044df2a86403794691dda5a26e37d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f1044df2a86403794691dda5a26e37d\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I take a call on behalf of New Zealand First for the South Taranaki District Council (Cold Creek Rural Water Supply) Bill. What a lengthy name it is for what is a relatively small water supply set-up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EI firstly would take exception to the Hon Dr Nick Smith putting us in the ranks of those who would be opposing this bill, because he obviously had not heard my previous speech earlier this year, when we said that New Zealand First had looked at all the facts of this matter and would be supporting this particular proposal because it did seem to, at the end of the day, stack up. So that perhaps takes that out of the sails of the Hon Dr Nick Smith, who was making out that we were doing otherwise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E One of the reasons we supported it was that it did come to our Local Government and Environment Committee, and it came quite a number of times. It was thrashed out at length and was sent back to the local council, it was sent back to the officials, and indeed there were other advisers who came along. We managed to sort of flesh it all out to get some pretty good improvements out of the whole thing, because in the beginning there were doubts about some aspects of it, and we had some grave doubts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EI think it started off from the situation where there were concerns from the council that the local member\u2014and this is the member who is part of the self-admiration club of the National Party\u2014had gone along with the chairman of the water company, Mr Neville Ardern, who happens to be the brother of the MP Shane Ardern, and who happens to be mates with the local MP, Chester Borrows. Nepotism is alive and well in the National Party, obviously, as we heard in question time this afternoon\u2014nepotism is alive and well. It was unfortunate, the Local Government and Environment Committee was told, that there was a little bit of standover tactics from these people. These MPs and the chairman of the water company stood over at this council meeting of the South Taranaki District Council and said: \u201CWell, basically, if you don\u2019t agree to this, if you don\u2019t do this, we\u2019ll have it rammed through Parliament anyway and you won\u2019t have a choice in the matter.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EI think that set off a few alarm bells for members of the committee, when we heard that there were elected members of Parliament putting pressure on the local council to comply with their wishes\u2014this included the brother of one of the members of Parliament\u2014or it would basically have its local government rights locally taken away by Parliament. The Hon Nick Smith can sit there, smile, and say: \u201CWell, this is the National Party giving the locals what they want, and the locals their opportunity to speak.\u201D It was only as a result of the Local Government and Environment Committee spending a lot of time and making sure that the local people were not actually being walked over by a few heavy-hitting members of Parliament, with family members associated with the deal, that that was the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EIn regard to this, we were also very concerned that the people were not being asked about it. One of the requirements of our select committee was to get a referendum in place, and that was when New Zealand First said we would be prepared to support it\u2014if the local people affected by the scheme, who were the users of the scheme and who were in that catchment area of the scheme, at least had the right to be asked: \u201CDo you want this to be taken over by your local people, or do you want it to be left as is?\u201D. The fact that we were able to get that referendum included in the bill was a major step forward as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EWe also were concerned when we heard from local iwi who felt that they had not been consulted adequately\u2014some members of the local iwi who submitted to the Local Government and Environment Committee felt that they had been left out of the loop entirely\u2014and again we were somewhat surprised that there had not been adequate consultation. Again, we got built into the bill that there would be improved liaison with local iwi. So that was a good outcome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EI think at the end of the day this is a somewhat unique situation in that the source of this supply comes high up on the sides of Mount Taranaki\u2014Mount Egmont\u2014and comes down into this particular catchment area. It was developed 30 to 40 years ago by the locals, who at the time needed water reticulation and irrigation for farms and also water for some of the small dwellings of people in the area. Now there are more than 500 or 600 people who are consumers of the scheme. Therefore, it is a unique scheme, in a sense, in that it is self-contained. It is for the one community, and it does not then go on and feed others or link into anywhere else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EIt is a self-contained scheme, and it is one where a lot of local money has poured into it from the various farm owners. We were told that a lot of work had been done voluntarily over the years by farmers to keep the pipes and keep the scheme operating. A lot of labour had been put in over the years. The council had also provided, at no cost, some engineering assistance and expertise over the years, so it was a bit of a joint effort on the part of many, and some taxpayer money had gone into subsidising parts of the scheme to ensure that it operated. So in that respect it has been a win-win for the community, and by returning it to community ownership of the people who are the scheme users then it does become very much a cooperative water scheme, which has merit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThe committee was also concerned in terms of health issues, and you will note that in the bill there are also provisions that there must be consultation with the health department in terms of the quality of the water, because again we did not want to see a situation where the scheme was not meeting health quality standards. That does raise, for the Hon Nick Smith\u2019s benefit again, the fact that all around New Zealand local government and local communities for the last 10 or 15 years have increasingly had to meet higher and higher potable water standards for good, healthy drinking-water. It has been a big burden on many communities in New Zealand to get their water up to standard. There has been some considerable cost go in all around New Zealand to improve the infrastructure in our water supply systems, to ensure that we do have good, healthy, clean drinking-water. Often Dr Nick Smith will say that councils are spending some outrageous money around the country on all sorts of things. In fact, one decent chunk of the money that every year goes out is actually part of the improvement of the water supply around New Zealand, which back in the 1980s and 1990s had got into a somewhat dire state. During that period it was very, very clear that many water systems around New Zealand needed some major, major upgrades and improvements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003ESo can I just also commend\u2014rather than the self-congratulation committee of the National committee\u2014all members of the Local Government and Environment Committee on both sides of the committee, not just the National ones, who like to just congratulate themselves. We all had an input into this, and we did, I think, make some significant improvements to the bill, which at the end of the day those people in that South Taranaki area and in the Cold Creek rural water supply area will benefit from. It was a good outcome for all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0a4acba34e64b01a2b5cc0141789b4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0a4acba34e64b01a2b5cc0141789b4c\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak on this South Taranaki District Council (Cold Creek Rural Water Supply) Bill. I am also pleased to say that I will be in Wanganui on Monday with the Hon Chester Borrows. I look forward to being in that community, because what was very clear when we heard these submissions was the passion from the people who have contributed to this scheme. We are proud, on this side of the House, to say that we believe in community assets, and we believe in empowering the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWhat I want to say with regard to this bill is that it is very interesting that we have a situation here where many residents have contributed to this scheme, and all they want to be able to do, as the Hon Nick Smith mentioned, is to control this scheme and potentially vest it in the ownership of the community. That is a really positive thing. Can I just say as well, and point out to members, that what this bill does is set in train a process. It sets in train a referendum for residents to potentially get ownership of that scheme. That is a positive thing. We in the National Party support that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to seek clarification, particularly from the Green Party, on this issue, because I do understand and I do actually have a lot of respect for them. I might not agree with Eugenie Sage, but I have a lot of respect for the work she does. I want to seek clarification on the issue of the fact that the Crown did provide some funding for this. Why would the Green Party have a position that if that funding is provided then it should not lead to community asset-ownership? I would ask the Green Party, then, to clarify all the waste management schemes around the country. There are many other community assets that have some Crown funding, and to state a position that says that somehow, as a result of that, there should not be community ownership I think is a sad day for New Zealand. But I do welcome clarification on that particular point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to make two other minor points. The first is that there have been some very good improvements to this bill, partly as a result of looking at who can be involved in that referendum, and also the issue of ensuring that there is better iwi engagement in terms of the process. I want to acknowledge the chair of the Local Government and Environment Committee, Nicky Wagner, and I want to acknowledge all other members of the select committee as well for their hard work on this particular issue. I am very pleased to support this important bill, which is about empowering communities and ensuring that for this asset there is a process in train to enable the people who have contributed to this asset to actually have ownership of it. That is a good thing. We support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00220bf1655e286b4e249cec07cb8eb9dfa0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220bf1655e286b4e249cec07cb8eb9dfa0\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call on the South Taranaki District Council (Cold Creek Rural Water Supply) Bill. It was very good of the member who just spoke, Nikki Kaye, to say that she is going to be in Wanganui, or Whanganui, on Monday with Chester Borrows. She will be about an hour and a half\u2019s drive away from the area that will be affected by this bill, so she has got a little more work to do if she wants to get an understanding of just how people in that area feel about this bill. There is not a unanimous view that this is necessarily a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9121d8076d74846bf9cb7fe9bd233fe\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: That supports it or opposes it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d86163c21b748f19a9975722a8aefce\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Let me be very clear: the Labour Party will support this bill. That is the position that is being taken. But because Dr Nick Smith thinks in very simple terms, he cannot understand that there might be, you know, gradations of support, and there might be other concerns that are equally relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226939123167854c8f89ea89bf44124aef\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Shades of grey in his case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e699a9ccd1a948a3abda6f0ed0b4ed0e\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Shades of grey in his case, yes\u2014you are not 50 yet, not Fifty Shades of Grey, hopefully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223eef690df4b04b7487b6484f649fb7bd\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Spare the thought.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c48e9a0a939455d84edbd2c6d38df16\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270891f58df024934845bfa60db290680\u0022\u003ENikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Keep it seemly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022babbb1dbfe1d43afaf158bc5cbf46711\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. No, no, we like to keep our cultural references current and to the point\u2014no pun intended. But here is the thing: the Labour Party will support this bill, but that is not a reason not to register the sorts of concerns that my colleagues\u2014Grant Robertson, in particular\u2014have already noted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ELet us be very clear: the farming communities in all parts of Taranaki, including South Taranaki, are absolutely vital to the region and are a good bunch of people. That is why the Labour Party, in Taranaki, enjoys a very good, close relationship with the local branch of Federated Farmers. We have good dialogue, we meet regularly, and we have good discussions. But there are concerns about measures like this, and those concerns should be put on the record. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ELet us go to the origins of this particular water scheme. It was funded by a 50 percent, or a dollar for dollar, grant by central government when it was put in place in the mid-1980s. That grant made its way through what was then the Egmont County Council, which had responsibility for that area. I do not know why it later became the South Taranaki District Council, or the \u201CSTD Council\u201D, as it is known locally, which is a most unfortunate name. But I promised I would get off Fifty Shades of Grey. The scheme had a 50 percent subsidy from central government. That subsidy was paid on the basis that the scheme would demonstrate a greater than usual marginal benefit for the subscribers to, or the users of, the scheme. Indeed, that has been the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EOf the submissions that went to the Local Government and Environment Committee, there were some very good ones that showed the actual impact of the scheme. Those local farmers who were originally part of the scheme and those who have come into it through succession or acquisition of farms have enjoyed not just the benefit of the mere existence of the scheme but also the added value that it has created, and that is a good thing. It is a wise use and a sensible use of taxpayer money and a partnership relationship between the Government and communities such as this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThere were two other sources of value that have made up the scheme. One is the sweat equity and hard labours of the farmer subscribers to the scheme, who, at the time of its construction, used their plant and machinery, amongst other things, to assist in its construction and development. Also, the local district council, now the South Taranaki District Council, provided its engineering expertise as part of the maintenance of the scheme. In particular, in terms of the head works and the pump-house, it has provided some maintenance and engineering expertise to support that and be part of its upkeep. So it is not true to say that it is just the hard labours of the local farmers who are the beneficiaries of the scheme at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThat is why I think it is important that we take time and we pause to reflect on exactly who has contributed and where that value might be properly reflected. It is for that reason, too, that it is good to see that, as part of the referendum process and the change that has been suffered as a result of the select committee process, it is not just a simple referendum but a referendum that requires all of the relevant information to be put before the electors\u2014those who will be able to take part in the vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ELet us be clear about why some of the farmer members who have made submissions to the select committee want this transfer to go ahead. They have been very clear. One submission was from a farming couple. They say they have got a farm near Te Kiri, with two dairy farms and a drystock unit, and they receive their water from the Cold Creek system. This came from a second-term councillor on the South Taranaki District Council, who had declared his conflict of interest. He said that one of the attractions of the scheme when it was built was the one-to-one Government subsidy, on the basis that it would be able to generate a designated economic gain from production increases. Those submitters went on to say that the reason they wanted the divestment now is that they did not want the scheme to be caught up in potential negotiations over iwi settlements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EAnother farmer with the surname Ardern\u2014not the chairperson of the scheme and not the member, but a different Ardern again\u2014said he supported it because, as he described it, \u201CIt puts ownership of the scheme infra structure where it rightfully belongs. Local ownership and management \u2026\u201D. There is no acknowledgment of the public contributions to the scheme, just that the locals should have ownership of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EAnother submitter, Anna Dodunski, said that \u201C\u2026 local ownership brings with it a quicker response time\u201D and that \u201Clocal ownership of Cold Creek Water Supply is fundamental as only the residents on the scheme have invested interest in protecting the waterway and ultimately the future of the river which is cold creek.\u201D That is a farmer sentiment, but it is not all entirely correct. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EOne of the main iwi who submitted on the bill, of course, noted that they had not been consulted on it. One of the other changes that the select committee process created was that there will now be proper consultation with local iwi\u2014and not just one iwi, of course, but all local iwi. They will all now be consulted on it, and they will have a chance to have a say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ENone of that was in the original bill, and none of that went before the South Taranaki District Council when it was being asked by Chester Borrows, Shane Ardern, and Shane Ardern\u2019s brother to support the bill. Those changes have been made. It is important that those changes were made, and it is good that they have been. For those reasons, in spite of the reservations we had originally, Labour will support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u00227f76172f296c4508b73dd4d6cb057244\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f76172f296c4508b73dd4d6cb057244\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to this bill, the South Taranaki District Council (Cold Creek Rural Water Supply) Bill. I would like to echo some of the sentiments that were raised by the local member who proposed it. I think Chester Borrows is an excellent local member of Parliament. As he pointed out when he worked through the background to this bill and the history of this bill, it has been a long time coming. The people\u2014400 individual people and the 162 connections\u2014have been working on this for about 12 years. There have been bureaucratic changes, which the member who just sat down, Andrew Little, outlined accurately, so I will not go into those. There really needed to be a common-sense approach to this, and the local member, Chester, came to this House and had an excellent idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe Greens have opposed it, and I wonder whether therein lies the problem\u2014that they do not have local members. They do not have to listen to anyone who does not think the way they do. They do not actually represent a group of people and have to actually take a local cause to a wider arena, explain it, and argue it through. They just cocoon themselves in their own little mad, Green world and say \u201CThis is what matters. We think it is right and therefore it is.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e15d8ec42d1545cb84cbde3f78ee1d5e\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I take personal offence at that reference, and ask that she be made to withdraw and apologise for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228aec8ee326784732aae6787201aa77e1\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: In the course of an earlier contribution from a member in the party to the right of the Greens, there were very crude assertions made about the motivations of a colleague of ours, Shane Ardern, implying corruption and other things. I think there does need to be some degree of robustness about points such as those being raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022644fb3f0dd1344b1ac53bfbf3a30c3a4\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is taking offence at something that somebody else has said, then he is quite entitled to, but I have made explicit reference to an explicit statement concerning mental health issues, which Maggie Barry has accused the Greens of having. I take personal offence at that, and I ask that she be made to withdraw and apologise for her comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022124f18903030430a969bd386245465e7\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am just struggling to recall the comment that was made and the context in which it was made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022597f725010f641f3b52e0892cdad92f5\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I can help without being specific, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236057bc6efb448248d77980720a0adbe\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Be very careful but helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225eba6ae89c784b2d80a76cfcac39199e\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I will not repeat the comment, Mr Speaker, but there is no doubt that the member referred to the Greens generally\u2014the parliamentary Greens\u2014as having mental health issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291697bdd93d44271926ca91f4a06b066\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Having\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276af24e07e0f453c8fed7d055e163203\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Mental health issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283bb5f41d23f4d37a1d2b4f1d506252b\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Did the member do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022250850279d68440dbe9057d4930ff074\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: Not at all. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e404587e2abe4485a588bedd0f1a0beb\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d944575c71841078432732ce7d0a9b0\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. She knows what she said. She knows the word she used, and I am asking that you require that she be made to withdraw and apologise for the use of that word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8256294ade04cccbe816108f4d66d7e\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am going to ask the member to withdraw the comments\u2014I am going to ask the member to withdraw the comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022599145384a284c20bc4bee0f6e04fb25\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: I am not wishing to cause any trouble here, but I am just not sure which comments\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253d5747d46bd4d3383d4c5d9d737cd48\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, just withdraw the comments. [Interruption] I am going to ask the member to withdraw the comments that caused offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262ef0eabb88f476fa93e10d1c7cc976d\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know which comments they were, Mr Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c95f8bcb12a44f9c850a73787890b43b\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have given the member the words.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287dec1ec833d47c2b0dd408ad368531b\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw the comments that caused the offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022940a3c72568b4212adc1d3bcdd9fe6cb\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022644bca9d6e3d46d8954119637035cf9f\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: Right. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccedef1abd284465abba7f90b5af52a7\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: But how does she know not to say it again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224070fc41db5f4ff68b913142a8c61baa\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not. So\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222cad86334ae40b387be15a805c76835\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b95cc31665324a31b5ec4c5347593f24\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a023b84bb2124dbbbbaf7a663ddebef4\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Stop being so offensive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb5491d0c2a24353abf90cac216918c1\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022718c0ad463124c21bce0406970f90917\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s had a long lunch and she goes stupid\u2014a long lunch and she goes stupid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022236cae9e211b470188bbcbb7f8984d64\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, thanks very much. So I need the permission of the heckler opposite tonight before I continue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ea3a7fb2627425ba9da7bee857135b2\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Thank you. Look, we were making quite reasonable progress. I have asked one member to withdraw. I could ask the member to withdraw his comments as well; I am not. I am just going to give a general warning. Let us make some progress on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022976d57687abd41808c47af2be133d59c\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will resume. So as Chester Borrows the local member so eloquently put it earlier, why did they want to make this change? Why did the people of Cold Creek, some 400 members of them in this connection, want to go to all this trouble and fight for 12 years? It is because it is a common-sensible approach. They want to run their own water supply, and they should be allowed to do so. It is an excellent idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe other point that Chester made, which I think is particularly useful, and again it comes back to representing a group of people as opposed to just a broad philosophical negativism, is that the farmers had to borrow money to set up that scheme, and it was not an inconsiderable amount of money at the time that they put the scheme in motion. So they had made an investment and they felt that they needed to own it. I think that is a point that came through loud and clear in many of the submissions that we received on this particular bill. I think that they have the right to have that sense of ownership, and that is why we all support what Chester has said and why we all support this legislation. If these people want to run their own scheme, why stop them? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EIt is a very good thing, I think, too, that the local iwi Ng\u0101 Ruahine Rangi have advised that they are not interested in acquiring this asset as any part of any future claim. This is being referred to constantly by the Opposition\u2014that the iwi somehow feel marginalised. According to all the evidence that came before our select committee, they were very happy with the arrangement and were not interested in acquiring the asset. They have been consulted, perhaps not all of them in every bit of the detail, but on the whole there was enough accord to make it seem as if it is an excellent community initiative. I think that this is a piece of legislation that should proceed through the House directly and without opposition, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00220fb41428c3bf429b96486f4e67283944\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fb41428c3bf429b96486f4e67283944\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is normally a split call. Is Labour not seeking a call? David Clendon has the call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf941a40c69346b1924ee65be132e14f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf941a40c69346b1924ee65be132e14f\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E In my few minutes I will focus on clause 5, and particularly on the proposed amendment where the Local Government and Environment Committee, to its credit, belatedly endeavours to install the principle of consultation into this bill, the South Taranaki District Council (Cold Creek Rural Water Supply) Bill. Clearly, consultation is something that has been sadly lacking in the development of this legislation\u2014most particularly in terms of consultation with M\u0101ori, with tangata whenua. I am astonished by the closing remarks of the speaker who has just sat down, Maggie Barry, in terms of one particular iwi, or hapu, and I will come to that shortly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThis proposed amendment is too little, too late. One can hear the echo of the stable door slamming and the horse has long disappeared over the horizon. It is too little because all that it actually requires the council to do is to consult with every iwi authority about the transfer of this asset from public ownership into private ownership. The bill does not require it to go below that level. It is too little and it is too late because the core decision, the key decision, has long since been made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI think it is worth referring to the generally accepted principles of consultation that have evolved and developed, particularly since the early 1990s, around environment law, resource management, and local government law. One of the key propositions, arising from an Environment Court ruling, is that consultation involves the statement of a proposal not yet fully decided upon, listening to what others have to say, considering their response, and then deciding what will be done. It is that notion of a proposal being not yet fully decided upon. Clearly, in the case of this bill, the key decision has long since been made. It is right there, in the core purpose of the bill: to establish a process by which the council may obtain the authority to transfer the asset effectively from the community and into private hands. Further, the principles of consultation also require adequate information about the proposals to be given in a timely manner. Consultation should not be treated as a mere formality. The parties are to approach consultation with an open mind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThis legislation fails on all of those tests in terms of the engagement, or rather the failure to engage or consult with affected tangata whenua in the Taranaki region. The evidence for that is very clear. It is contained in the submissions to the bill. The Taranaki Iwi Trust, one of eight iwi in Taranaki, with an approximate area of interest from west of New Plymouth, around the coast to \u014Cpunake, and inland into the mountain, to Taranaki maunga, say in their submission that \u201C\u2026 given the lack of consultation, engagement and involvement in the development of the Bill, the Trust does not have all relevant information in respect of the specific details relating to the management and operation of the Scheme.\u201D The trust goes on to say: \u201CThe Trust was not consulted or engaged with, at any stage, regarding the development of the Bill.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe heard from Dr Smith, who endeavoured to substitute volume for content. We heard constant reference to community. M\u0101ori, the tangata whenua, make up a pretty significant chunk of the Taranaki community. They have been utterly ignored and excluded in the development of this bill. There is no consultation. There has been no engagement. It is there, in black and white, from a significant iwi with whom the Crown is engaging around Treaty settlements, of course. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe trust does acknowledge that two marae have had some marginal input into this. They make the point that those two marae have got the right to determine their own futures, but they make the point very clearly that this does not constitute consultation or engagement with the trust, the mandated body for Taranaki iwi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003ESimilarly, the r\u016Bnanga of Ng\u0101ti Ruanui, with a very similar submission on behalf of 7,000 uri, 16 hap\u016B, and 10 affected marae, make the equally clear point that they are kaitiaki of this area and they oppose this legislation in its entirety. They make the point that this bill has the potential to affect a sea change. The notion that assets that involve water, which are known to be under Treaty claim, known to be subject to Treaty claims, could be transferred from public ownership to private ownership, is a very significant and potentially a very dangerous precedent. They go on to say that \u201CNgaati Ruanui raises serious concerns about the South Taranaki District Councils consultation with iwi about this Bill. In the last 10 years iwi has not been given an opportunity to discuss or be involved. This Parliament and the Crown should not continue this exclusion.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThese are fairly clear-cut, fairly unequivocal statements of exclusion, of failure to consult, and of failure to engage in a process that has been going on for 10 years, or indeed 12 years. It is unacceptable. This harks back to the 1970s and the 1980s when M\u0101ori were routinely ignored in decisions about land and water use and allocation, and so much else besides. Ng\u0101ti Ruanui again notes that \u201Cthe development of this Bill has for many years been debated and constructed by the South Taranaki District Council. \u2026 meaningful discussion could have been undertaken with the iwi of South Taranaki. No such consultation has occurred. \u2026 The Council failed in this duty to consult with iwi.\u201D And we must agree entirely with that. It is clear-cut; it is straightforward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe remarkable statement that the former National speaker made was that Ng\u0101 Hap\u016B o Ng\u0101 Ruahine iwi gave some sort of sign off to this legislation. I would like, for the member\u2019s benefit and for the benefit of the House, to quote from the submission to the select committee from Ng\u0101 Hap\u016B o Ng\u0101 Ruahine, holding a Crown-recognised mandate to represent the iwi and hap\u016B: \u201CWe oppose the Bill in its current form. \u2026 there has been inadequate consultation with local tangata whenua by the Council in developing this Bill.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EHow one can derive from that the proposition that somehow these hap\u016B support this legislation is, frankly, beyond me, and I do wonder where that assertion came from. I would love to hear some defence of it or some support for it. So, clearly, this bill has failed to engage with iwi. It has been over a decade in the development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226339754462ca4676a11f2a3759f6225c\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON\u003C/span\u003E: I am pleased to take these final few minutes just to reiterate some of the points I made earlier about the very poor process of the development of this bill, which is one of the major reasons why the Greens are opposing it, despite having supported it at its first reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe have heard some rather rose-tinted opinions from the Government benches as to the engagement of the community and others, and the community benefits that will flow from this legislation, overlooking the fact that a very, very significant part of that community\u2014that is, the M\u0101ori community of Taranaki\u2014has been ignored, excluded, overlooked, and not engaged with, and those are terms that are taken directly from the submissions offered to the select committee by the affected party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe Taranaki Iwi Trust insists that the engagement with the marae that have signed off\u2014the two marae, out of who knows how many\u2014did not constitute consultation or engagement. This has been a project some 10 or 12 years in the making. We have read repeatedly from iwi, and hap\u016B, indeed, who ought to have been consulted, that they simply were not engaged with, and in this day and age that is an unacceptable process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIt is true that there is some credit to be given to the Local Government and Environment Committee. It has now, belatedly, inserted an amendment to clause 5, which at least will allow for a modicum of consultation. Sadly, it will be only about the detail of the process. The key decision has already been made, which is contrary to those basic principles of consultation that I referred to earlier, which is to say that consultation should be undertaken before the final decisions are made. Clearly, in this instance, the opening phrases of the key provisions of the bill indicate that the single large decision\u2014the fact that this asset will go from public ownership into private ownership\u2014has been agreed to and made, and there will be very little opportunity to reverse that by interested iwi and hap\u016B. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI suspect, in fact, that there will not be a great deal of pick-up on this opportunity to be consulted with or to engage in a consultative process by M\u0101ori in this area, simply because it will be so marginal to the key issue at stake, which is whether or not those assets ought to go from public hands and into private hands. There are the issues around the precedent it could set for Treaty settlements, and for the privatisation of water assets that undoubtedly will be part of the Treaty claims that are in train now, reminding us that some of these entities that have made submissions have been recognised by the Crown. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fba8e4b2da2a4fb89514da0d03ad0d0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fba8e4b2da2a4fb89514da0d03ad0d0b\u0022\u003EPAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E As someone who received a large number of votes from Labour and Green supporters, I am very pleased to see a large amount of bipartisan support for this bill, the South Taranaki District Council (Cold Creek Rural Water Supply) Bill, although I am disappointed that my supporters amongst the Greens have not come in behind this bill and supported it. In essence, this is a practical and a fair solution. It is not a significant economic asset, but the farmers who use it and who will be the shareholders are the ones who are affected and who will benefit from this scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EJust going back quickly over the summary of the details, the ratepayers of South Taranaki, we should remember, have never paid towards the purchase, maintenance, or otherwise of this scheme. It has been operated by the residents. Therefore, they want ownership vested to them under the company Cold Creek Community Water Supply. This company has managed the scheme, including finances, operations, and maintenance, since 2001. The South Taranaki District Council had agreed to transfer the ownership. However, the Local Government Act 2002 means that the water supply cannot be privatised, requiring this local bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe have considered this bill very carefully in the Local Government and Environment Committee. Some very interesting submissions were received. I am very pleased to support this bill, the South Taranaki District Council (Cold Creek Rural Water Supply) Bill, at its second reading. Thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224a230d9e333e4b8f8dd26f82dc146aa1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the South Taranaki District Council (Cold Creek Rural Water Supply) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; New Zealand First 7; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 16\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 13; M\u0101ori Party 2; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa87b04a374648d281592f64c373e52c\u0022\u003ECriminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act 2009 (Application to Casinos) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224f479d5af52f4da68c5693deb55c9cf6\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000568\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 14 November.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022 data-id=\u002276cd7301dbc346d4aef0adeb777f5252\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276cd7301dbc346d4aef0adeb777f5252\u0022\u003EDENISE ROCHE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E In the first part of my speech I was outlining the fact that casinos benefit from theft, fraud, and money-laundering crimes, and I was making the case that this bill would reduce the level of crime associated with casinos by introducing disincentives. When there is no disincentive, there is no will to actively monitor the gambling activity of people who spend large sums of money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003ECasinos make millions\u2014absolute millions\u2014from the proceeds of crime that are being gambled there, and there is no incentive to reduce crime, because it will affect their profit margins. I listed several examples of casinos making millions of dollars from people convicted of theft and fraud, and explained that small businesses, not-for-profit organisations, and family members are being defrauded of huge sums of money\u2014money that, essentially, the casinos get to keep. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThis bill says that if a casino knows, and can reasonably know, that vast sums of money are being spent on their premises, then they need to do something more than just sit back and take the profits. They need to do something about it. And they do know when it is happening. That is what VIP cards are. That is what loyalty cards are. They track what casinos are doing. The winners of casino crime are the casinos. This bill says that the money should go back to those who have lost that money. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022a04c64c2bb804344a84170cbed8495dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a04c64c2bb804344a84170cbed8495dc\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E This bill, the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act 2009 (Application to Casinos) Amendment Bill, is a particularly bad piece of legislation. What the Green Party is trying to do is fix a problem that does not exist. I get that Green members do not like casinos. I think they do not like them because people have a choice to go there and have fun, should they want to. The only part of our legislation around our police force that the Greens seem to be in favour of is when you get the fun police out to look at normal New Zealanders who are choosing to have fun in their recreational time, and the Greens want to stop this. You see, this bill covers only casinos. What the Greens are saying is that criminals who may gain revenue for themselves through illegal actions go only to casinos to use that revenue, and I would challenge that. If the author of this bill really was concerned about this issue, the bill would include New Zealand Lotto, and it would include the TAB, and it would include many other places that non - law-abiding citizens\u2014criminals\u2014can go to spend their ill-gotten gains. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThis is nothing worse than political grandstanding of the very worst type\u2014in fact, the worst type of political grandstanding I have seen since I came to this House 4 years ago. I believe that the author of this bill is wasting the House\u2019s time with this legislation. There are already things that deal with this, and they deal with it for all companies in New Zealand that are involved with any type of financial transaction. Of course, the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act, an Act that went in to place in 2009, already deals with this. Therefore, casinos are covered by that piece of legislation. Casinos themselves have special legislation in New Zealand around host responsibility\u2014a host responsibility programme. This is not them choosing to do this by themselves. Actually, the host responsibility programme comes about because the current legislation that provides for casino licences demands it. I believe that casinos take this extremely seriously, because if they do not, they put their licence to operate a casino at risk in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWe also have the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act, which went through the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee in the last term of Parliament, when I was a member of that committee. That piece of legislation does a number of things. It says to all businesses in New Zealand that are involved with financial transactions, which therefore includes casinos, that when there is activity that is deemed to be unusual or different or over a certain threshold\u2014$6,000 in some cases; $10,000 in others\u2014they must keep records, they must get extra information from the person conducting that transaction, and they must be assured that the funds that are being used are being done so appropriately and have not been gained through terrorism or through money-laundering or through ill-gotten gains. So already we have legislation in place to cover this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI come back to what I said earlier. The Green Party does not like casinos because everyday New Zealanders have the choice to go there and enjoy themselves. We will be voting against this legislation because it adds absolutely nothing at all. It does not fix any problem at all. If the Green Party was serious about this, it actually would have spent some time researching the issue and coming forward with things that actually might help, rather than saying that it is going to beat up on an industry in New Zealand that this House has said is legitimate and has a right to be here, that employs so many thousands of New Zealanders up and down the country, that plays an important part in our economy, and that has safeguards placed upon it. This bill does absolutely nothing at all, and I will be very happy to vote against it shortly. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2818e5c2edd4209a0b65a9abb300b8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2818e5c2edd4209a0b65a9abb300b8c\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I want to thank all of those parties and members who have spoken in support of this Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act 2009 (Application to Casinos) Amendment Bill. We very much appreciate that commitment to protecting New Zealand families, communities, and New Zealand businesses. I am shocked by the level of ignorance displayed by the National Party members who have spoken on this bill, including the last contribution just made by Todd McClay. It is certainly true that there has been some anti-terrorism and anti - money-laundering legislation that has been passed and does come into force next year, I think. That legislation does put some parameters around trying to stem money-laundering, in particular, for which casinos are very well-known. What that legislation does not do\u2014and, in fact, what no legislation yet does\u2014is require casinos to forfeit the profits that they make from money that is spent in their establishments that has been stolen. There is no means in New Zealand law as yet that requires the casinos to return money to the businesses, the communities, and the individuals from whom money has been stolen for the purposes of gambling at casinos. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThere is a great gap in the law that means that families and communities and businesses are paying for the profits of casinos and have no way of having that money returned. My bill will close that gap in the law. My bill will make sure that families and communities and businesses have the chance to recover at least some of the money that was stolen from them for the purposes of gambling. By closing that gap my bill will make the casinos subject to the same kind of forfeiture regime that every other New Zealander in this country is subject to. There is not a single New Zealand citizen who is entitled to keep the profits of crime. That is what the law currently says. Like it or not, casinos are themselves in receipt every day\u2014every day\u2014of some form of money that has been stolen to feed a gambling habit. Casinos, too, should be subject to the same laws and requirements as the citizens of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThere are a number of cases that I want to talk about so that people in this Chamber, particularly those who have been blind so far to the effects of problem gambling, can understand who is being affected. These are cases from just the last 2 years. November 2012: a 36-year-old finance officer at a nursery convicted of stealing $455,000 from his employer, which he used to visit casinos. October 2012: a 64-year-old Feilding payroll clerk convicted of stealing $260,000 from her employer because she had a $700-a-day gambling addiction. October 2012: a 61-year-old accounts manager at the University of Otago sentenced for stealing $230,000 from his employer. He stole to support his gambling addiction. June 2012: a 50-year-old finance officer employed by a marae stole $330,000 from her employer. She had worked there for 17 years and used her employer\u2019s credit card at the casino bank to withdraw money to feed her gambling addiction. June 2012: a 33-year-old sales assistant employed by a Wellington company stole $88,000 worth of copper piping to sell in order to feed his gambling habit. December 2011: an Upper Hutt property manager convicted of stealing $54,000 from his employer to fuel his gambling addiction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThese are just some of the cases that we see in this country, month after month, year after year, where businesses and community organisations are having money stolen. It is being spent at the casino and in other gambling places, and that casino never needs to return any of that money either to the Crown or to the people from whom it was stolen. That, surely, is unfair\u2014that, surely, is unfair. Those who have had money stolen from them, and where that money has been forfeited by the Crown under the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act, can apply to have that money returned, so it is possible to have that money returned to them. That is what this bill does. It is an important legislative gap that needs to be filled, and it is justified because families and communities and businesses should not have to feed casino profits day after day after day. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bfd55b1fc52f48b8b91dfc8b304ce4e0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act 2009 (Application to Casinos) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 2; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022489b99bff7aa4175b57172b7acb61497\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations (Protection of Young Workers) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a071a8135062453690284a96c04dc591\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf13483d191d4a78ab34e2d4b2429d11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf13483d191d4a78ab34e2d4b2429d11\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E E te Kaik\u014Drero Matua, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. E ng\u0101 rangatira o te Whare, ng\u0101 mema o t\u0113n\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B, o t\u0113n\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker. To the leaders of the House and to the members of each party, acknowledgments to you and each of us all collectively.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI move, That the Employment Relations (Protection of Young Workers) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee to consider the Employment Relations (Protection of Young Workers) Amendment Bill. This bill intends to give greater protection to children in their working lives. It does this by ensuring that children aged 16 or under who have paid work outside the home will be regarded as employees. This does not cover personal, domestic, or household work. It is intended to cover the commercial employment and contractual engagement of children in work. It is the simplest step we can take to improve the safety and working conditions of children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EOur country has a tradition of part-time work for children. Many of us entered the workforce while we were still at school through holiday or after-school jobs. Many New Zealanders regard children\u2019s work as a rite of passage\u2014a harmless way to spend a few hours gaining a work ethic and some skills while earning a little pocket money. This may be how it has been in the past. It may be how we experienced work as a child ourselves, but we cannot take for granted that this is how working children today are experiencing employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EOn a regular basis, children\u2019s work problems and issues hit our headlines. Fair Go earlier this year revealed stories of child leaflet delivery workers who had their pay rates cut without notice or negotiation. The Catholic agency Caritas has reported children experiencing potentially serious injuries, harassment, and poor treatment at work in two surveys of children\u2019s work experiences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EACC figures show that there are children aged 9 years or under who have received compensation for work-related injuries. In 2004 an Otago University report showed that on average there was one work-related child fatality each year between 1985 and 1998. In another study conducted by the Department of Labour in 2007 over 3,000 Taranaki secondary school students were interviewed by health and safety inspector Jo-Ann Pugh, representing 46 percent of students in Taranaki at the time. Twenty percent of the students said that they had experienced a work injury or illness. In addition, 88 percent of these young workers reported having been asked to do something at work that they considered unsafe and yet they went on to do it anyway. Over half of the young workers in this study did not recall receiving any health and safety information from their employers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has comprehensive health and safety legislation that requires both employers and employees to identify hazards and take action to prevent or minimise them. It requires employers to give health and safety information and training to their employees. Many people assume that health and safety regulations cover all workers, including children. Like me, the members of this House will be shocked to learn that some industries that depend on the labour of children in fact carry no responsibility for their health and safety. That is because they employ children as self-employed contractors, not employees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ETake this example from the contract between a large advertising leaflet distribution company and a 12-year-old: \u201CThe parties acknowledge that this agreement is entered into by both parties on the basis that the Deliverer is an independent Contractor, and that the Deliverer is not an agent or employee of the Company.\u201D Another example from a different delivery company\u2019s contract with a 14-year-old says: \u201CYou are employed \u2026 under a contract for services, which means that you are an independent contractor. This contract does not therefore create an employment relationship between you and [Company].\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EEmploying children as contractors absolves employers of obligations they would otherwise have, including responsibility for health and safety. It is the reason that we get those Fair Go stories of children whose pay and working conditions are changed without their consent. It is probably one of the reasons that so many of the school kids in the Taranaki study were not given information about health and safety by their employers. If the children were regarded as contractors, their employers simply did not have any obligation to tell them anything. I do not believe that contracting for services was ever intended to cover the employment relationships of our youngest and most vulnerable workers. They deserve the greatest protection, not the least. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWhen we look at a child\u2019s employment agreement we ought to see the best care and attention paid to their well-being, not the most distant and casual form of commercial relationship. It is actually the youngest of New Zealand\u2019s child workers who are most likely to be working as contractors and in unsupervised situations. The stories given to Caritas have shown that 10 to 13-year-olds employed outside the home are more likely to be working as delivery workers, while older children are more likely to be working in larger workplaces, such as in retail and fast-food outlets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWe have heard many words spoken this year about the protection of vulnerable children. Although many New Zealand children grow up in loving and protective families, we all know that some children do not. They deserve and require the protection of the State and the wider community. But children are not only vulnerable in their homes. New Zealand children may be vulnerable in their workplaces. Many New Zealand children are well looked after at work and have good experiences to report about their employment, and that is great. But there are other children who are not well looked after and have had bad experiences at work. They deserve greater protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESome of the responsibility for that protection lies with their parents, who are the first defenders of their children\u2019s rights. There are many parents who wish their children to work but, at the same time, feel very unhappy about their children\u2019s working conditions and feel powerless to change them. They feel there is nothing that they can do when faced with a take it or leave it contract. We need to give parents greater power to influence their children\u2019s conditions of work. This means there needs to be an employment relationship that allows for the negotiation of conditions that are safe and suitable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EBut the responsibility for protection of children at work also lies with their employers. Businesses whose profits depend on the work of children should have a very high moral responsibility for the children they employ. Responsibility for protecting children at work also lies with those charged with the legal framework and rules and regulations around the employment of children. That means that this House must ensure that labour legislation adequately protects our most vulnerable workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThe children who are doing these jobs are not all doing it because they are saving for a university education or kids\u2019 luxury items like iPads or smart phones. No, many of these kids are helping out with bread and milk money or contributing to their school camps. Things are tough on ordinary Kiwi families, and some of our children are growing up before their time. These children also miss out on other things. Being on the street delivering means they are not playing on the sports fields, and they are missing out on kapahaka, poly club, or the choir. They are missing out on the social benefits that schools and communities give to our children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EChildren are our taonga. Who of us in Parliament takes for granted that all children are entirely safe in their homes? In the aftermath of Pike River, who of us in Parliament takes for granted that all workers are safe in their workplaces? Why, then, should we take for granted the safety of children who work? In doing research for this bill I went back to look at some of those old Victorian era labour protection laws\u2014and there were none. Talk about an era of sweat houses and child exploitation! Someone came up with a law that stopped adults sending 7-year-old boys up chimneys to clean, and made the legal age 9 years. Incredible! There were 9-year-old boys and girls squeezing up chimneys to put fires out. Surprisingly, very little has changed since those times. This House has more aroha than that. Surely, let our kids be kids\u2014let our kids be kids. If they want to work after school, then good on them. But let us not turn our kids into small business units responsible for sub-contracting, supplying their own equipment, ACC levies, and tax. I know adults who are in business who struggle with this sort of paperwork. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EChildren are the most vulnerable of workers and deserve safe and secure working conditions. Ensuring that children are regarded as employees is a simple but real step we could take to improve the working lives of New Zealand children. I commend this bill to the House. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8fa1815938446b8a34c5fe0edb9b36c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8fa1815938446b8a34c5fe0edb9b36c\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E The only good thing out of that speech was that that member Rino Tirikatene is going to send the Employment Relations (Protection of Young Workers) Amendment Bill to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. But I did like that he said he had researched it. I am pretty sure he got it pulled out of the ballot, and the day it was pulled out he had to work out what he actually had put in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe thing is that this bill is an attack on the fundamental ability of people to make decisions in their own life. It is democracy being attacked by the Labour Party again. It is the Labour Party trying to tell people how to live their lives. This bill is the thin end of the wedge, because the reality is that the Labour Party members want to make all New Zealanders employees. They do not want any contractors in the New Zealand economy. They want only employees, and this bill is the first step to achieving that. The Labour Party members are using young people as the first step in that, saying \u201COh, we are looking after the interests of young people. We have to do this.\u201D Rubbish! The Labour Party has got an agenda to make everybody employees, and this bill is just the first step in that agenda. How dare you use young people in that way!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E I remember this afternoon we sat in the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, and we had the Labour Party members saying \u201CWe cannot have any difference in the wage rates paid to young people. Can\u2019t do that. Can\u2019t do that.\u201D But now in this House they want to have different contracts for young people so that they cannot be in contractual service but have to be in employment. One of the fundamentals of the society that we live in is freedom\u2014freedom of choice, democracy, and the freedom for individuals to make choices about the arrangements they enter into. How dare the Labour Party take away the freedom of our young people! What gives those members the right to take away that freedom from young people in this country as people going forward?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party speech made an assumption. It assumed that if you are in a contractual relationship, you are in a worse position for health and safety than if you were in an employment arrangement. That is not the case. It is not the case. There are accidents that happen in all workplaces. We need to make sure that all workplaces are as safe as possible. You cannot make assumptions like that in this House and then try to take away the freedom of our young people as a result of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe also need to look at the practicality of this. Young people often need to be in jobs that are outside their school hours, at times they can accommodate with their own timing. Being under a contractual basis is normally the easiest way to achieve that. It is the flexibility that is important for the young person, and Labour members are taking that away. They are denying young people jobs and opportunities. They are denying the future paper boys and paper girls of New Zealand the chance to deliver that paper, and that is a shame on the Labour Party. And it is not only for the really young. It is for 16-year-olds as well\u201416 and under. So a 16-year-old who may want to go farming, who may want to go and become a contract milker, cannot become a contract milker in New Zealand. Under the Labour Party, they have to be an employee. You are dumbing down the workforce of New Zealand just for the purposes of Labour Party control, and that is not in the best interests of this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI am disappointed that this is the first bill that this member Rino Tirikatene has brought forward. I had more hope that he would have come through with a bigger bill that was in the interests of his communities, rather than a fanciful approach of the Labour Party trying to test the waters with what it wants to do around employee contracts. It is a shame that he is being used by the Labour Party, and it is a shame that that party is using young people in this way. The National Government will not do that. We believe in the freedom of our people, we believe in the freedom of our young people, and we believe that they should have a choice of how they arrange their employment relations, whether as an employee or as a contractor. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002286247eaaf1b04818bbe19fe2c13f466f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286247eaaf1b04818bbe19fe2c13f466f\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We move to 5-minute calls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u00223943637b14ae4981be3051a31204b284\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223943637b14ae4981be3051a31204b284\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, I want to acknowledge the Catholic Social Services agency, which has done a lot of the background work on this. To be honest with you, I found that member David Bennett\u2019s contribution embarrassing\u2014extremely embarrassing\u2014if not to say ignorant, because this is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a23ba5c8c9c44b90866ba26b913bcb01\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s a fellow member of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4e6974b4fce4fad86507b347a75f327\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, he is a fellow member of our Transport and Industrial Relations Committee\u2014when you think of the opportunity that we would have had to examine what is a really, really important issue. New Zealand is a country that prides itself on how we treat our most vulnerable, and our most vulnerable are our children. Our children under current labour laws have very little protection. They have no minimum wage, and so some of the work that was done by Fair Go, for example, found that some of these children are being paid as little as 25c an hour. I want to hear from the National members whether they think 25c an hour is fair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe most ridiculous thing about the current law is that young children can be employed as contractors, which means essentially that they are being told that they have their own businesses. So they set up their own businesses where they have to pay ACC levies and where they have to pay tax. [Interruption] Yes, and they can employ subcontractors. We are talking about children who are as young as 10. I want the National members to get on their feet and tell me that children as young as 10, 11, or 12 are capable of working\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224ab7cec65ad484c9a038e8505c8469f\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Do you think they\u2019re not capable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d752f8bc1a6241d79ef7249cf673bcd0\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I would like to be heard, if I could, please. I am sorry if the National members are going to demonstrate their ignorance in that way. Of course young children are capable, but they are not capable of negotiating with adults on the basis of an equal footing in an arrangement that is a commercial arrangement, and that is what this bill is about. It is about protecting our children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has signed up to international child labour conventions, but we have a child labour problem in New Zealand. In fact, we have been criticised for that not only under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child but also by the International Labour Organization. Also at the International Labour Organization we have been repeatedly criticised for doing nothing about children\u2019s employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAs I said, great research has been done on this by Caritas. There has been great research done on this by the Department of Labour. As I said at the beginning, it is simply ridiculous to have a law, to have a situation, whereby our children are expected to be engaged as independent contractors in their own business, to be paid 25c an hour, and to be responsible for their own health and safety, responsible for contracting, and responsible for their own ACC. It is a ridiculous situation and I am ashamed to be in a country where we have a Government that is so arrogant and smug about the situation that it thinks it can sit there and mock, when we have people in the gallery who have done serious work on this issue, who have studied it for years. They have studied it for years, and yet the National members want to mock and not take it seriously. I feel very, very ashamed, actually, to be in this debate after my colleague Rino Tirikatene presented such a very, very good case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI want to give just one other example, if I may, about what sort of contracts kids of 10, 11, and 12 are signing up to. Here is one: \u201CThe Contractor is an independent contractor and as such is free (in addition to the Contractor\u2019s freedom to engage sub-contractors and others to use carrying equipment \u2026) to select the Contractor\u2019s own means and methods of performing the services \u2026 The Contractor shall bear all costs and expenses incurred by the Contractor in connection with the performance of the services.\u201D That is a contract for a 10-year-old. How shameful is that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAs I said, I am ashamed to be in a Parliament where we have a Government that does not care about child labour and that is not prepared to support a simple measure like this, which would examine the exploitation of children being employed as independent contractors and employed on 25c an hour\u2014shame on the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea0b33aa7c724c7892748cd807172f88\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea0b33aa7c724c7892748cd807172f88\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1709788624944a8b7cebce21daf5008\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Talking about child labour!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270a7873c599a4d01b8d0b512ada36b0c\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS\u003C/span\u003E: That guy should go back to watching movies\u2014he is better employed in that area. It never fails to amaze me how many anti-worker provisions Labour can come up with and bring to this House. I say they are anti-worker provisions because they will make it far more difficult for people aged 16 years and under to go out there and get work. The Labour Party wants to change the definition so that it becomes almost impossible for someone under the age of 16 to be employed as an independent contractor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EI would like to refer to this bill, the Employment Relations (Protection of Young Workers) Amendment Bill, as an attack on the paper boys out there. It is an attack on the paper boys out there, because it will mean that it will be far more difficult to employ paper boys. It will mean that paper boys or paper girls around the country who are out there delivering the papers, delivering the junk mail, and who are actually happy to earn a bit of money will be deemed to be employees. They will have to be subject to all the provisions of the Employment Relations Act, and that will make it far more difficult for them to be employed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EWe know that Labour likes to do things that cost jobs, and this is one of those things that will cost jobs for those people out there aged 16 or under who are currently working as independent contractors. They will be joining the 13,000 people whom we helped to get a job and who will no longer have a job when Labour changes the 90-day law. They will be joining the 6,000 people who will be out of a job when the $15 minimum wage they want to bring in comes in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed55671cebb148f1832c7d90bc8cf9cc\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Yay!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f15b8d3493c4761aaaa746177d5bbab\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS\u003C/span\u003E: Darien Fenton is going \u201CYay!\u201D because people will be losing jobs. That is what she actually did. People will be losing jobs under the employment relations framework that Labour wants to bring in, and Darien Fenton is saying \u201CYay!\u201D about it. Darien Fenton says \u201CYay!\u201D because paper boys out there, any person aged 16 or under who is an independent contractor, will end up losing their job under this legislation. That is the face of employment relations in the Labour Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EI would like to refer the House to the current section 6 in the Employment Relations Act, because I think there are some interesting provisions in there. Section 6(2) talks about what the Employment Court or the Employment Relations Authority can determine at present. I will read it out: \u201CIn deciding for the purposes of subsection (1)(a)\u201D\u2014(1)(a) is about the meaning of \u201Cemployee\u201D\u2014\u201Cwhether a person is employed by another person under a contract of service, the court or the Authority (as the case may be) must determine the real nature of the relationship between them.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003ESection 6(3) states: \u201CFor the purposes of subsection (2), the court or the Authority\u2014(a) must consider all relevant matters,\u201D. Essentially what that means is that the court or the authority at present can consider all the matters in relation to an employment relationship between a company, an employer, and a 16-year-old, or an individual under the age of 16, and the court can actually, at the moment, determine that that person who is thought to be an independent contractor is an employee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThe Employment Court or authority can pretty much investigate the exact nature of the situation. So if the Labour Party, or anyone, is concerned that an individual is in a relationship that looks and sounds like an employment relationship and is effectively the same as an employment relationship that someone over the age of 16 is in, I point out that there is already redress in section 6 of the Act. I do not believe that this bill is necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThis bill will be an attack on those 16 and under who are currently delivering papers and currently are independent contractors. It will mean a loss of jobs, and it will be in line with the other proposals that Labour has put forward that will mean a loss of jobs\u2014taking away the 90-day trial, and introducing the $15 minimum wage. When Labour abolished youth wages we saw a whole lot of young people losing jobs, and now, as we are trying to help people with a starting-out wage, Labour is opposing that. The proposals that we want will mean more people get more jobs. Everything we come up with to create jobs, they oppose. They keeping bringing us proposal after proposal that will cost jobs, and that is exactly what this bill will do too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022 data-id=\u002241535ce2223c4d73a6c6fee79fae2c84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241535ce2223c4d73a6c6fee79fae2c84\u0022\u003EDENISE ROCHE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koe. It is my pleasure to speak on this bill, the Employment Relations (Protection of Young Workers) Amendment Bill. We will be supporting it and I congratulate the member on bringing this bill to the House. Finally, something positive for our young people and young workers in New Zealand is being promoted in this House, and I sincerely hope it passes into law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThis bill is an important step in recognising and protecting young people in New Zealand. We seem to have this mistaken idea that New Zealand is a benign country, and that our children are not exploited at work, but this is simply not true, especially when you consider that the Government has introduced a bill for youth rates for young workers starting out on their working lives, which deliberately invites exploitation. Add to that the fact that this Government is now taxing paper boys and girls. We are entering a time of cynical fleecing of young workers in the guise that it is good for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThis bill will do what the Government has not: offer protection to our young people. They are amongst the most vulnerable workers in New Zealand. Unlike most countries in the world, New Zealand has not got a minimum working age. This bill will ensure that young people, even if they are under 16, are to be treated as employees\u2014employees rather than contractors\u2014and that is a start in job protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EOn the one hand we encourage our kids to get a job\u2014and as a parent I was desperate for my kids to earn some money so they could stop fleecing me\u2014not just to save up for treats but also to contribute to the household. The other thing about it is that we encourage them to get jobs because that is where they develop their work ethic and their work-readiness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThere are many thousands of New Zealanders\u2014young people, children\u2014who are treated as independent contractors rather than employees. For these kids their first foray into the workforce can frequently be unpleasant. They probably do not even know that they are independent contractors; mainly they just feel like they are being ripped off, like Waiuku boy Max Hansen and his 13-year-old sister. They were delivering pamphlets for 3 years and were told suddenly one day that their $6 an hour was halved. Their mum tried to negotiate and went public, but these kids were out of luck because they were independent contractors. That company has 6,000 independent contractors, most of them likely to be kids. It is unlikely those kids know they are independent contractors. It is more unlikely that they are in a position to be able to negotiate, because the balance of power between a child and an adult is not even. They are not even going to get anywhere near a negotiating table. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Council of Trade Unions suggests that there are thousands of children in this country earning $2 or $3 an hour. That is paying on the same level as sweatshop owners in Third World countries. We had a \u201Csweating commission\u201D in New Zealand in the 1870s and we abolished cruelty to children, but this Government says that we can carry on with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EWe know that independent contractors do not have the same protection as employees, and you can just look at the Hobbit film and what happened with independent contractors there. These kids have to pay their own ACC and their own tax, they have no holiday pay or sick leave, they have to provide their own weather protection, and they also have to maintain their own health and safety\u2014and these kids are at risk on their jobs every day. Risky situations that pamphlet deliverers face, for example, include dogs, include traffic, and include other sorts of injuries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EToday the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee has been hearing submissions on the youth rates that this Government wants to introduce. Part of the conversation we are hearing is that we need to be doing more for children who are in the workforce, who are under 16 as well. There are international conventions that we have not signed up for. This bill is a great start in the right direction. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u0022855afd41821e4238987eb1c0817bff5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022855afd41821e4238987eb1c0817bff5a\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I anticipated hearing Mr Tirikatene speak on his first\u2014I think it is his first\u2014bill in the House, the Employment Relations (Protection of Young Workers) Amendment Bill. He is a man with a noble name, a good lineage, and an orator to behold, but, sadly, he came up with this one, which is really, as someone has already suggested, perhaps something that was simply drawn out that he then had to build a case around as best he could. But I was astonished to hear that the research he has done was on the Victorian era, and that he finds that we have not moved forward since then. That defies imagination, and it shows, really, the level that Labour is at\u2014it wishes to stop everything. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThis Government is committed to increasing opportunities. I have heard this evening that 10-year-olds cannot negotiate. When I was 10 I negotiated my first contract, on a Thursday afternoon\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dba71723398f432daa5ce397ad534616\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s happening to that accent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4774c82d60b43838d02c8ec0b264156\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: What is that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022672c69b63cd4498aaeaae94e88360183\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: I never know which accent I\u2019m going to get from you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f04f386ea6f485ab069b16b33847106\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, which one would you like to hear? I negotiated without any trouble at all, in Suffolk, in the market place, and ever since then, whenever I have negotiated a position for myself, it has always been as a contractor. So I do not know why that side of the House wishes to deny opportunities to entrepreneurial young people. They do exist. I was told by a colleague this evening. He showed me the top 25 young entrepreneurs. They are young, they are successful, and they negotiate. Why does Labour want to stifle any individual ability? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe bill might have positive intent, but it does not have positive effect, and this is symptomatic of the party that is responsible for it. That is something that worries us. It worries us, Labour\u2019s current state. [Interruption] We do. The current leadership is failing Labour. Why else would it promote a jobs bill that increase overheads, reduces opportunities, and reduces the likelihood of employment opportunities? When I think of the jobs I negotiated for myself as a boy, brought up by a single parent, they would never have been offered as employment opportunities as an employee. It did not work that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EI worry for Labour because this bill does not bode well for its future. It is symptomatic of its frame of mind at the moment. Far from being bright, its future is looking more and more like that which befell the crew of the Bounty. The Labour members are not sure what is going to happen to them. So while this National Government is focused on ensuring that our employment relations framework is fair, flexible, and entrepreneurial, the Opposition seems focused on internal dramas and wanting everything suppressed. I heard Opposition members speak in the meeting we had\u2014the select committee meeting\u2014this afternoon. Again, it was: \u201CLet\u2019s suppress opportunity; let\u2019s suppress entrepreneurial activity.\u201D It is these theatrics, taking the eye off the ball, that lead to bills like this one. So I worry about Labour and the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe House should not be debating this bill. It should be as focused as the Government is on helping young people into work, not trying to get them out of it. While the Opposition has shown nothing but opposition, we on this side have been working. We introduced the starting out wage, which will help more young New Zealanders to get a foothold on the employment ladder. That is a good one, no matter what was said about it this afternoon by the other side. We introduced a 90-day trial period for new employees. Where are the complaints? Where was the raft of awful examples? It did not happen. Oops! You had two\u2014two. And they are the first ones to surface. We introduced flexibility in the Holidays Act\u2014not too many complaints about that, other than from that party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EAlthough I might not be as youthful as my colleague from T\u0101maki, both Simon O\u2019Connor and I understand that the last thing young workers need is a bill in Parliament that threatens to remove incentives for employers to take on young workers for short-term, unskilled work by making the process unnecessarily complicated. We are approaching Christmas. I had not expected Labour to be such a Christmas Grinch as it is turning out to be with this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u00227a29eb782ecf4f39bbdf13af8572bfb1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a29eb782ecf4f39bbdf13af8572bfb1\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of New Zealand First, I am pleased to take a call on the Employment Relations (Protection of Young Workers) Amendment Bill. New Zealand First supports this bill. We have to congratulate the member, Rino Tirikatene, on getting his bill drawn from the ballot. It does not happen very often. In New Zealand First, we believe that the industrial relations environment must be based on fairness. We work towards that, because it is important that every worker gets treated equally. This is very, very important when we consider younger workers. Children aged 16 and under are the most vulnerable group of workers. They deserve safe and secure working conditions. Many of us can identify with that particular group. Some of us were employed when we were under 16. For some of us that is a bit longer ago than for others. Some of us have children who are or who have been in that particular group. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe Caritas report from 2007 investigated children\u2019s delivery work, and, of course, it centres mainly around newspaper and pamphlet delivery, which is most of the work that our young people carry out throughout their schooling. A whole host of issues actually arose from this work. The first one that arose was the very inconsistent and very low pay that many of the children received. Second, there are the health and safety concerns. In New Zealand we have got the Health and Safety in Employment Act, and employers have an obligation to carry out their duties under this Act. But when people are employed as contractors, particularly young children who are not aware of some of the health and safety aspects of their role, it becomes a real concern. These children have got no idea, and, of course, the companies do not have to really worry about them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThird, there is the absence of any sick leave or annual leave when you are actually employed as a contractor. Some of these children rely on that money as pocket money. That can easily be done. Finally, the biggest concern is the total lack of supervision. If young workers\u2014children\u2014had the employment status of employees, their employers would have to declare their earnings as a part of their ongoing obligations. This would give a much clearer picture of the size of children\u2019s participation in the workforce. At present we do not have that. It would also clarify ACC obligations and entitlements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EI went on to the internet to have a look and see what other countries do. Other countries do not have a law allowing children in work the same rights as those above 16, so the National Party can be quite happy with what it is saying. They do not even say anything about the level of hazardous work. That is something that New Zealand does have, but not to the extent that some of the other countries do. We currently restrict in New Zealand those children under 15 from working in hazardous work, and a young person younger than 16 cannot work during school hours or actually perform work that will interfere with their schooling. That is a priority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe United States has the Fair Labor Standards Act, which sets wages, hours worked, and safety requirements for minors working in jobs covered under that particular statute. The rules vary according to the age of the minor and the particular job involved. As a general rule, 14 years of age is the minimum age for employment, and they limit the hours worked by minors under the age of 16. Many other countries also stipulate work hours for minors, such as Ireland. Children aged 15 may do 8 hours a week of light work in school term time; the maximum working time for children outside of school term time is 35 hours a week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EChildren are a very vulnerable group. This bill would be a step forward. We do need to know how many young children are actually working in the workforce, and we would look further to working on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00223b13fd1d607840d7826126fd108defb2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b13fd1d607840d7826126fd108defb2\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E This Employment Relations (Protection of Young Workers) Amendment Bill is an interesting bill. It is interesting not so much because of its content but because of what it implies and what it says unspoken about where the minds and hearts of the Labour Party members are at the moment. I am a new member in this House, and I came in at the same time as the member who has introduced this bill, Mr Tirikatene. As a previous speaker in this debate has said, he comes from a long line of superb heritage in this House. For him to introduce this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b916de2ebe34c5cbecc6fc40add9f71\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s sad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293240c0ef8d3450ba08ccf0ee0fc167e\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: It actually is sad. It is a sad, sad thing that he should be, after his long lineage of history, introducing a bill that is as shallow as this. I do not think he came to this House to unionise paper boys, or maybe he did\u2014maybe he did. That is perhaps what the game plan is. I think that this could be part of a cunning conspiracy on behalf of Labour to simply improve union membership. Union membership is really what all of this is about. We are going to unionise the youth of the nation, and try to brainwash them into all that that sort of thing incurs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI know the member who introduced this bill. I know that he is an earnest, sincere, and thoughtful member, and I know that his sponsorship of this bill is probably more by accident than by design. I fear that probably his name was simply allocated to it by the party whips. Indeed, what happened was that once it was drawn from the ballot, he did have to go and do some research, he did have to go and find out what it was all about. So here we are, confronted with a member\u2019s bill in his name that stifles initiative, that stifles responsibility, that stifles entrepreneurism in our very young kids, who actually should be at the very point that they are learning about the benefits of work, the benefits of a work ethic, and the dignity of work and entrepreneurism, and profit and business. Those are things that we should be encouraging. Here comes a bill from the Labour Party that wants to do away with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EWell, I say shame on the Labour Party for this. It is an undesirable relationship between reward and effort that Labour wants to somehow do away with. I cannot understand that as a National Party member, because we are all about creating opportunities\u2014creating opportunities for young people to make their way in the world, to see what can be achieved by their hard work and their effort. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E I have a confession to make. I am an employer, I guess, of a person under 16. He is a guy who comes in and he mows my lawn. I live in the very fine township of Thames in the Coromandel electorate\u2014in the very fine township of Thames\u2014and it is the lawn that grows. Other grass grows, but grass on the lawn needs mowing. So the grandson of my neighbour negotiated with me a very fair price\u2014a hard price, I might say. In fact, it was a price that was higher than the commercial going rate, and he mows my lawn. I want to know from this member whether this person is an employee or a contractor, because I pay him a fair and reasonable rate to mow the lawn, and I do not know whether he in fact has other clients. He has maybe done a hard, sharp deal with some other neighbours of mine around the neighbourhood in Thames, and he is probably doing a very, very good job in mowing lots of lawns. I would say that that is a good thing. That is a good thing that we should be encouraging in our young children. That is something that we should be encouraging the children of the nation to do\u2014get off their chuffs and understand that with effort comes reward. I think that is a very, very good thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo what have we got here? We have got a Labour Party that is against freedom, that is against enterprise, and that is against initiative. This bill is nothing more than a leap back into 1970s and 1960s unionism, and it is a desperate move on behalf of Labour to try to just improve union membership. The nature of a job is determined by what the job is, not the age of the person doing the job. This is a better bill for being not supported, and I do not think we should. So I oppose it\u2014and I do so very keenly oppose it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1b65275a3d445b397b50caef4f917a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1b65275a3d445b397b50caef4f917a4\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to speak in support of this very well drafted, very well crafted Employment Relations (Protection of Young Workers) Amendment Bill. You know, this really is a night for the season. It is the season of Dickens. We have had the \u201CSilas Marner\u201D of the National Party caucus, David Bennett, stand up here and talk about the freedom of workers and the freedom of employers to exploit, because that is the only freedom that is at stake here. The right that the National Party is defending is the right for employers to exploit, and to exploit the young. Then we have the \u201CEbenezer Scrooge\u201D of the National Party caucus, Chris Auchinvole. He gave us a great list of National Party achievements in employment\u2014in the whole area of employment law. He talked about the 90-day \u201Cno rights\u201D period and all the rest of it. There were a couple of achievements that he did not talk about, such as the increase in unemployment, which has turned out to be the highest level in 13 years. He did not talk about the highest level of youth unemployment in more than 20 years. I did not hear that achievement on his list, because he knows that its retrograde measures, introduced by this Government consistently over the last 4 years, are having a deleterious affect on the employment rights of young, middle aged, and old alike. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThen we had \u201CFagin\u201D in the form of Scott Simpson, who stood up there and said that he was exploiting his young labour, too. The question I have for the \u201CFagin\u201D of the National Party caucus is why bother paying them at all? Why, when you can get away with it, would you bother paying them at all? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThen there is Jami-Lee Ross. I am not quite sure how to characterise Jami-Lee Ross, so we will call him the \u201CLittle Dorrit\u201D of the National Party caucus. He is the \u201CLittle Dorrit\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EBut the reason why I support this bill and why Labour supports this bill is because it confirms the basis of very civilised standards of conduct in employment in this country, and we need more of it. This re-establishes employment rights and protections that young workers should have as of right when they walk into employment at the tender age that they go into it, in the period covered by this bill. Those very basic rights are that they should have their employment rights clearly articulated and specified in a written agreement, because this bill will ensure that young workers get to have that. It will ensure that they are protected against arbitrary and unfair dismissal, because that is very important too, and that is under threat. And it will give them protection in regards to their health and safety rights\u2014that they will actually have some health and safety rights, as well. We know that this Government does not care about that. We know it does not care about people in work having health and safety rights, having their rights spelt out for them. These are small obligations to put on any employer. They are easy to meet, easy to do, and things that every responsible employer not only does but does willingly, because they want to do it. But this Government does not understand that and does not get it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EYou see, everything that this Government has done in the field of employment relations has taken this country backwards and has hurt people, particularly young people. It introduced the 90-day \u201Cno rights\u201D period\u2014the right of an employer to treat somebody shabbily and never be held to account for it. It has introduced the obstructions to workers to either join a union or to have access to the union during work\u2014all those sorts of things. It does not get the fact that the employment relationship is a power relationship. Even if you were looking at employment from the point of view of the free-marketeers, who Government members all claim to be, let them understand this: the only thing about the employment relationship is that it is one of imperfect information. It is one of imperfect information. One party has all the information; the other has very little at all. If there is one thing that every Parliament has a moral obligation to do, it is to recognise that there are those in power relationships who are vulnerable and who are in a weaker position. It is the moral obligation of Parliament to step in, to intervene, and to say: \u201CWe will shore up one side of this relationship, and make sure they have rights and protections.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis Government is a Government of the master and servant. Our party and the Opposition\u2014the Green Party, New Zealand First, and others\u2014are the parties of responsible, modern employment relationships and responsibilities. That is why we support this bill. That is why it is important to bring integrity to employment, to bring integrity to employers, and to protect our young and vulnerable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc67133043934a42ad3de1e629bfd1eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc67133043934a42ad3de1e629bfd1eb\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E It is delightful to stand up. I am actually in a jolly good mood now after my colleague Chris Auchinvole described me as \u201Cyouthful\u201D. Auchie, people have not described me as that for quite a while.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1511444310b413e90985aab31d1f07c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Are you covered by the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272eba42ca6724ad0a223dc64b40ff71a\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. My colleague Nick Smith raises a very good question\u2014am I actually going to be covered by this bill, the Employment Relations (Protection of Young Workers) Amendment Bill? As a youthful 36-year-old, will this bill actually cover me and my rights, or is this going to be age discrimination, as we heard in our select committee today? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ECan I begin by acknowledging the sponsor of the bill, Rino Tirikatene. As someone who has also put their first member\u2019s bill before Parliament, it is always quite the experience. Unfortunately, in this case, the bill is deeply, deeply flawed. It begins with the very basic principle that you never argue from exceptions. And we have heard from everyone in the Opposition a whole series of very bizarre exceptions that might have turned up on Fair Go, that they might have seen in Mary Poppins, that they might have heard on the street, and that they think came from the Victorian era to somehow justify this bill. You never argue from exceptions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWe then heard this sort of rambling rhetoric\u2014this rambling rhetoric\u2014that somehow this is discrimination, this is exploitation, and, again, it is Victorian. The thing about rhetoric is that when the learned mind steps back for a second and thinks about it, it does not really stack up. But they were so desperate too that the next step was to start saying \u201CWell, you know what? Actually, this is like the White Paper for Vulnerable Children.\u201D \u201CThis is about Pike River.\u201D, someone mentioned. What has the employment law for 16-year-olds and younger got to do with any of those things? It smacks of desperation. You see, it does not take much to work out the absurdity of where this is going\u2014the absurdity. What we are talking about here are young people under 16 going to school and doing those odd jobs that most of us in this House would have done, and which have given us all the characters that we have today\u2014not the characters of Charles Dickens. I realise, Mr Little, that you left out William Micawber\u2014a fine character. The Labour Party could learn from the wisdom of Micawber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe absurdity of this bill is that we are talking about young people. These are the young people who deliver papers, they deliver pamphlets, they mow the lawns\u2014like those of my Thames colleague, Scott Simpson\u2014they do babysitting, they do cleaning, and even, I might suggest, they might play music. In fact, some of us were very pleased to be in the Banquet Hall earlier, as we had a concert by performers from the Play it Strange Trust, sponsored by my colleague Chris Tremain. They are young people with amazing talent\u2014amazing talent\u2014but under this piece of legislation, before they could even turn up to a bar or caf\u00E9 or anywhere to play some music, they are going to have to go into full employment negotiations. They are now going to have to worry about sick leave, they are going to have to worry about holiday leave, and their employers are going to have to do ACC levies\u2014all of this to deliver some music, or to deliver a paper or pamphlet. These are young people who are already in school and already on holiday, so let us just step back for a second. How does it look for a 14-year-old mowing the lawns, playing some music in a caf\u00E9, or delivering pamphlets to have holiday pay? How does that look? Are we now going to send them on school holidays and expect them to be paid as well? It is absolutely ridiculous, and the word I would use for this is \u201Cabsurd\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EReally, the flaw in this bill is actually right in the heart of it. The very fact that we have to even discuss a bill like this points to the very nature of the work itself. We are trying to protect young people around an array of work that is so simple. It is so simple. The fact that we do not need to protect it is for the very reason that at the heart of this bill are young people who do those simple, basic jobs. Are we actually expecting that we are going to start paying a paper delivery boy or girl $13.50 an hour, and levies, and holiday pay, and sick pay? Are we really expecting that? Are we really wanting to stop the creativity of our young people to play their music, to mow those lawns, and to develop that experience? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the intent of the honourable gentleman who has put this bill forward, but it is seriously flawed. The National Party stands in support of its young people. It stands in support of that entrepreneurial spirit. It stands in support of what I suspect is the experience that each and every one of us has had, which is young people growing up, earning a few dollars, and having that chance to become the adults that we wish to be today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u00229946a48640504179887b9d130ae84ac8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229946a48640504179887b9d130ae84ac8\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. First of all, I would like to acknowledge all of the contributions in this debate that have been in support of this bill, the Employment Relations (Protection of Young Workers) Amendment Bill. I mihi to the Green Party, to the New Zealand First Party, and, of course, to my own colleagues here. Can I just say that there is a M\u0101ori whakatauk\u012B\u2014it is the most famous whakatauk\u012B of the M\u0101ori people\u2014and it says: \u201CKa p\u016B te ruha, ka hao te rangatahi.\u201D When the fishing net gets old, it is replaced by a new and younger net. I must say that I am very proud to sponsor this bill. It is my first bill in this House. This bill protects the most vulnerable, our children. Just as the whakatauk\u012B says that the old net shall be cast aside, that is what will be happening to this Government. It will be cast aside, because the new net is coming through and that new net is here on this side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWhat did we hear from the line-up of speakers? We heard a line-up of the most mean-spirited, Victorian era, Dickensian\u2014out of Dickens\u2019 books\u2014speakers. Mr Auchinvole even put on the accent, with a bit of flair. It is very sad because, firstly, they did not even read the bill. This bill has nothing to do with domestic chores. That is specifically excluded. So Mr Simpson, you and your 16-year-old who is mowing your lawns\u2014I am sure he has hustled you because if you cannot read the bill, that 16-year-old is definitely hustling you, Mr Simpson. There is no absurdity about this bill. This bill is standing up for our young children. They are up and down the country. We know it. Every day we go back to our homes, we look in the letterbox, and there is that flotsam and jetsam, that detritus, all that junk mail that gets into our letterboxes. That material is delivered by your nieces, your nephews, mokopuna, children, tamariki, up and down the country, and there are hundreds of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThis is a significant bill because it does really make a difference, and it will make a difference to the lives of working young people. I am talking about 9, 10, 11, and 12-year-olds, all the way up to 16-year-olds, right up and down the length and breadth of this country. They do need protection, because as vulnerable independent contractors they have no rights. They do not have rights to sick leave. What does the single mother do when her child, the deliverer, has to go out and deliver hundreds of pamphlets, and that child is off-colour and cannot go out? What does the single mother do? Does she go out with her other children to go and do the delivery work? Does she say to her child \u201CHarden up, son or daughter. You will have to go out there and do that work.\u201D? There needs to be protection for our young people. Parents know; that is why parents are very unhappy and they are complaining up and down the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWe do need to protect our young people, so I am very proud to have brought this bill to the House. It is a most worthy bill. It is there to protect our young people, our young workers, up and down the country. I would like to thank those who have supported me on this bill. I commend it to the House, and I encourage you all to vote for it. Kia ora an\u014D t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002295e1afee4d8044c5b6f761a971826a31\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Employment Relations (Protection of Young Workers) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 2; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002267e7325d03a3487089fd6598977de204\u0022\u003EClimate Change (New Zealand Superannuation Fund) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002298fcf3558c654cd0bf6ee9633623a4a2\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u00222dd9c065c3ff495ca0baf659e654bbd9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222dd9c065c3ff495ca0baf659e654bbd9\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Climate Change (New Zealand Superannuation Fund) Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Finance and Expenditure Committee to consider the bill. This relatively simple bill has a relatively simple purpose, and that is to ensure that the New Zealand Superannuation Fund invests its money, taxpayers\u2019 money, in a way that both is sustainable but also, in particular, takes into account climate change. It does this by amending the Act that governs the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, which is the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001, by essentially adding another guiding principle, if you like, to the investments of the fund. Currently the fund has three guiding principles, the third of which is about avoiding prejudice to New Zealand\u2019s reputation as a responsible member of the world community, and essentially we add a fourth guiding principle to that, which is that the fund would need to consider sustainability and, in particular, climate change when making its investments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ENow is a particularly apposite time to be considering a bill around climate change. Even as we sit here tonight, in Doha the world is assembled at the Conference of the Parties to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change to consider what kinds of actions we can take as a global community to deal with climate change. I do not think anyone is particularly optimistic about the outcomes of those meetings, unfortunately, but it certainly does not prevent us in New Zealand and elsewhere from taking the actions that we can in order to address climate change. This bill is one part of doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe science around climate change continues to get more alarming as time progresses, and I want to touch on a little bit of that science and a little bit of what is happening globally at the moment, because what we are now experiencing are the early stages of human-caused climate change. Of course, the Earth has warmed and cooled many times over past millennia, but the warming that we are experiencing now is warming that has been caused by the release of greenhouse gases, which we as a human species have been responsible for. It is, I think, remarkable to live in a time when the Arctic ice sheet is disappearing. We now have opened up the sea routes across the North Pole because the Arctic ice has reached its lowest level on record. As the planet has warmed, the Arctic ice is melting further and further each summer\u2014not only in its area but also in its thickness. We are seeing sea level rise of about 2 to 3 millimetres a year, but the projections are for the rate of sea level rise to increase quite dramatically. As we have seen the melting of glaciers, now we are starting to see very significant melting on the Greenland ice sheet, and, of course, melting in Antarctica. Those great ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica, as they melt, will change, literally, the maps of the world as they cause very large levels of sea level rise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EBeyond that, we have seen the very graphic example of what more extreme weather events look like, with \u201CSuperstorm Sandy\u201D\u2014or Hurricane Sandy, however you want to describe it\u2014which happened, of course, in the lead-up to the US presidential elections. That storm alone is estimated to have cost around US$50 billion. We probably will not know for some time the real cause of that storm. The scientific community has come out very clearly to say that storms of this nature are more likely, and will increase in their intensity and their frequency, as a result of climate change. That is the kind of thing that we have loosed upon the world. It is one of the reasons why the global reinsurance industry\u2014the people who insure the insurance companies\u2014is so deeply alarmed about the current science and evidence around climate change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWe are also seeing the beginnings of the acidification of the oceans. As the level of carbon dioxide builds up in the atmosphere it increases the level of carbonic acid in the oceans, and we are seeing the acidification of those oceans, with the result that we are seeing the early stages whereby sea animals and crustaceans\u2014and particularly snails, which cannot form their shells in such an acidic environment\u2014are struggling to form shells. So we are seeing a fundamental change in the nature of the oceans themselves as we start to make those oceans more acidic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe World Bank recently released a report in the lead-up to the conference on climate change, where it basically said that as a result of the existing projection on greenhouse emissions we are heading for 4 degrees of warming within a generation by 2100. There are people born today who will live to 2100. The people in this Chamber are very unlikely to live to 2100, but people are being born today who will live to 2100. The World Bank is very clear that as a result of our current trajectory we are looking at 4 degrees or more of warming by 2100. What that means is a very radical change in the world as we know it. It means we will have far more extreme weather events like \u201CSuperstorm Sandy\u201D. It means we will have far more floods and extreme weather events and more droughts. We will have very significant sea level rise. Sea level rise is very important for a civilisation like ours, which has built its major centres within a few metres of the existing sea level. Of course, we never imagined when we built those great cities and civilisations that we would see significant sea level rise in the near future, yet that is exactly what we are giving ourselves as a result of uncontrolled climate change. And that is, of course, exactly where we are heading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe World Bank also raised the alarm around food shortages. As climate change gets under way and the climate is destabilised, what we are seeing is that the existing agricultural production systems, which are designed to cope with the relatively stable climate we have had for 12,000 years since the last Ice Age, and the food production systems that we have developed, which are adapted to that relatively stable climate, will no longer function as well. So we are expecting very significant food shortages, because, of course, this climate disruption is coming alongside a very large increase in human population. The World Meteorological Organization has also issued its own report and made its own warnings about climate change, and I just want to quote it. The World Meteorological Organization said \u201CClimate change is taking place before our eyes and will continue to do so as a result of the concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, which have risen constantly and again reached new records,\u201D. We are living in extraordinary times, when all of our leading international and scientific bodies are telling us that we need to take action to reduce greenhouse emissions. Carbon dioxide levels have hit new records\u2014around 390 parts per million\u2014and we have seen methane levels start to increase again, for reasons that are actually a little bit uncertain. Nitrous oxide levels are growing again as well. Nitrous oxide, of course, has a warming potential 300 times that of carbon dioxide. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThis bill aims to address that, to some small degree, by implementing responsible investment provisions around climate change on the Superannuation Fund. It will ensure that our taxes are invested in a way that does not damage our environment or prejudice our future through climate change. It says to the Superannuation Fund \u201CInvest our taxes responsibly.\u201D It is also about a broader principle of trying to make capital more expensive for those businesses causing harm, and to make capital cheaper and more available for those that are doing good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThere has been a very interesting move internationally amongst responsible investors. The Alliance of Institutional Investors, representing US$22.5 trillion in assets, has called on Governments to take action on climate change. We have also seen that the International Energy Agency has said that renewables could be the second-biggest power source by 2015. Last year renewable energy investments reached US$257 billion, a rise of 17 percent on the years before. So we are seeing some change in investment in renewables and to save ourselves. But we know that the science is very clear that we are not doing enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWe have the ability, through this bill, to have a small influence on our own future and the future of Planet Earth by directing the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to invest our taxes in a way that actually supports our future, rather than a way that undermines our future. The Superannuation Fund already does this to a small degree, under its current Act, but we believe that it could do more than that. The purpose of this bill is to accelerate the Superannuation Fund\u2019s current slow moves to invest in a much more responsible way. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022edc9cdf375f3437b9378f2a8d7692ee5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edc9cdf375f3437b9378f2a8d7692ee5\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E This bill, the Climate Change (New Zealand Superannuation Fund) Bill, is one of those typical Green bills that sounds very worthy on the surface, but the moment you stop and think about it, you realise that it is actually pretty daft and silly. You see, it is going to be a bill that is bad for investment policy, but it is also bad climate change policy, and I want to work through those issues. You see, what this bill would do is say to the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation that it has to invest its billions of dollars in a climate change - friendly way, and the big question that it leaves wide open is, what in the heck that actually means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIs it going to be proper for the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to invest in New Zealand\u2019s all-important dairy industry? We all know that 48 percent of New Zealand\u2019s emissions actually come from farm animals. We also know from a recent report that has come out in the United Kingdom that it is far more efficient to produce meat and dairy products in New Zealand than to do it overseas, from a climate change point of view. So what real signal do we actually give to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund as to whether it should or whether it should not invest in major industries in New Zealand like the meat and dairy industry? And I ask whether the member in charge of this bill, Dr Russel Norman, is really saying that any climate change impact on any industry should prohibit the New Zealand Superannuation Fund from investing, because every single human activity does have some impact. It could be eliminating investment in infrastructure and in the transport sector. It could eliminate investment in the fertiliser business. Even many industries that we think might be, on the surface, green might have some climate change impact. For instance, it is very true that New Zealand\u2019s all-important tourism industry actually depends on overseas travellers coming a great distance, which does impact on climate change. So all it does is create a great deal of fuzziness and confusion about the Superannuation Fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe second challenge I have got for the Greens is this: if you really believe that the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation should have to take into account worthiness, why do we not go into other areas? For instance, I think most members of this House would say that it is good for business to invest in research and development. So why do we not put it to the guardians of the fund that it should invest only in companies that are meeting the Government\u2019s targets of increasing research and development expenditure? Or, for instance, I think most of us here would accept that we need to improve the number of women who are directors of businesses and who hold senior roles. So why do we not put it to the Superannuation Fund that it invest only in businesses where there is a certain proportion of women directors and women involved in senior positions? What about in terms of workplace safety? Why do we not put extra requirements on the Superannuation Fund to say that it should invest only in funds that have got extraordinarily good records around workplace safety? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThat too would be worthy, but all of those measures would be flawed for this very reason. The objective of the Superannuation Fund is for those guardians to do the very best with those investment funds to secure superannuation for future New Zealanders, and the standards that the New Zealand Superannuation Fund should meet should be no different than the standard that applies to any private superannuation fund or any other investment. If the Government wants tougher workplace safety standards, it should apply it not just to investments from the Superannuation Fund but to investments across the board. If the Government wants to pass some rules about increased research and development expenditure, about more women participating as directors, or about any of those other worthy goals, there is no justification for saying that investments from the Superannuation Fund should have to meet some sort of different standard to any other investment, and that is where the bill is flawed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EBut I also want to say, around climate change policy, that this Government is very proud of its record in the area of climate change policy, because we are making real progress. The member is a Green, and I respect those members\u2019 view that the Government needs to put a greater weight on reducing emissions. If they want to run an argument that we should have a higher price for carbon, there would be a trade-off. There would be a cost in jobs and in terms of the cost of living for New Zealand families of that measure, but that would be a rational approach to reducing emissions. A higher carbon price would not just impact on the decisions that are made by the New Zealand Superannuation Fund but would, of course, apply across the board. That would be a rational perspective, rather than the piecemeal and silly approach in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI do want to put on record the many initiatives that this Government has taken around climate change, because they are so often overlooked by members opposite. Let us look in terms of renewables. Everybody accepts that one of the areas where New Zealand has gone backwards has been that too much of our electricity has been produced by thermal electricity. In fact, in the period from 1990 to 2008 we saw a consistent increase in the amount of electricity that was being produced in New Zealand thermally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bbaee4de9374d26ab3f73ec63bce596\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing wrong with renewable geothermal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbc763f483a64ccc9499cdccb3898c16\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: There is a previous Minister of Energy, Mr Mallard. In each and every year since we have been the Government, the proportion of renewable power that New Zealand has produced has increased, and that is a trend of which we are proud. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIn the course of this Government we have had 180,000 homes insulated. Is that not a sensible climate change policy, which this Government has adopted and advanced? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ELet us look at an area like trees. We all accept that trees have an impact on climate change\u2014it is actually about 30 percent of the global impacts. During the course of the last term of the previous Government we saw New Zealand lose 40,000 hectares of trees. Contrast that with the record of this Government. In our first 3 years in Government we have actually seen the forest estate grow by 30,000 trees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222982d6754a2e4c9b8a35c19b25d036cc\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s going to happen now, Nick, that you\u2019ve taken the credits away?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204a12a789292408fb1ff9d0c12c817eb\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Let us take the overall numbers\u2014I say to Mr Charles Chauvel\u2014and when it comes to climate change, should the test not be what New Zealand\u2019s net emissions are doing? Have we have met our Kyoto Protocol obligations? I am proud of the fact, and we are only a few weeks out from the end, that New Zealand has met its climate change obligations. Actually, we have exceeded them by a significant mark, and that is something of which this Government is proud. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI would also note that in contrast to the years under Labour\u2014remember that Labour campaigned on New Zealand being the first carbon-neutral country in the world? Look, I acknowledge that the Green Party and the Labour Party are better on climate change rhetoric than anybody I know. They are really good on the promise; the problem is that they are hopeless on the delivery. They promised a carbon-neutral New Zealand, and emissions went up by 26 percent. They went up every single year under the Clark Government. And do you know what the latest reports tabled in this Parliament last month show? They show that in the years 2009-10, the last 2 years that we have got figures for, New Zealand\u2019s net emissions have been coming down. How many congratulations messages have you heard the Green Party give this Government on being the first Government in more than a decade that has actually had New Zealand\u2019s net emissions come down? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to conclude on the superb job in the international negotiations that the Minister for Climate Change Issues, Tim Groser, is doing, not just in Doha but consistently. He has had more influence over international negotiations than any New Zealander in the last 20 years. I have been party to some of those and have seen Tim Groser do his work. Tim Groser\u2019s basic message is right on the money, and it is this: all of the growth in emissions over the next 20 to 50 years is in developing countries. That is where the big growth is. So for members opposite to be preoccupied on the 15 percent of emissions coming from developed countries is to completely miss the challenge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIf we are to get on top of this problem of climate change, the really big challenge is to get those fast-growing, developing countries to move to new technologies. That is the message that Tim Groser is vigorously arguing in Doha. It is the only long-term answer to this challenging issue, and that is why New Zealand says, and says absolutely correctly, that the successor agreement to Kyoto has got to be one that includes not just 15 percent of emissions but all those emissions, including those from countries where emissions are growing so strongly\u2014the likes of China, the likes of India, and the likes of Brazil\u2014because we will not get on top of this problem unless those countries are part of the picture. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis Government has a very credible record on climate change. This is a warm fuzzy bill that will do nothing. It will send only confused signals to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, and the House should reject this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022af37da2619fe4f16b7e613f3b4581add\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af37da2619fe4f16b7e613f3b4581add\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Rising after Dr Nick Smith, I have to put on record some of what I would think would be misrepresentations of history as to where New Zealand has got to in respect of its climate change response. It is true that New Zealand\u2019s percentage of renewable electricity decreased following the discovery of gas in the M\u0101ui gasfield\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022310e7e73e9304ca98dddff1f8e7cd4d3\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: That was 76.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c1b2965d9ea443abb17268d07025285\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in 1976. From then forward the percentage of New Zealand\u2019s renewables decreased over time as New Zealand thought that gas was the answer. It was not until the last Labour Government actually removed the price cap on M\u0101ui gas that renewables became cost competitive. The price of gas had been set under the original M\u0101ui development agreement to increase every year at half the price of inflation. So for 20 years the price of gas went down at half the rate of inflation and, effectively, closed out just about all renewables development during that period. Removing the price cap on gas, which caused the price of gas to move to the marginal cost of new gas discoveries, was probably the most significant thing that was done to bring forward renewables. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe second thing that the Labour Government did was that we then actually set a strategy in place to get New Zealand back to 90 percent renewables, and we did that through the New Zealand Energy Strategy to 2050. We had about 100\u2014not 100, about 20\u2014different initiatives that pushed in that direction, including emissions pricing, including calling in consents, including telling the State-owned enterprises to consent and build renewables, including changing the Government policy statement from the Electricity Commission, and including building grid capacity to get renewables from distant sites to market, etc., and that is actually what caused the change back towards renewables going up as a percentage. So for Dr Smith to claim credit for that is wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of house insulation good ideas have many parents, and I think just about every party in this House has claimed credit for that. Actually, some credit should go to all parties in the House for that, because it is something that this country has done for a long time. In respect of the insulation of State houses it did stick in my craw recently that we had the Prime Minister claiming credit for the fact that State houses were being insulated, when I recall being part of the Budget rounds when that was an initiative of Jeannette Fitzsimons, who was providing confidence and supply to the Labour Government. Her price for that, or, you know, her contribution, was that she said: \u201CI want the money spent on the insulation of State houses, because once the State does that, the State will be in the position to introduce a regulatory rule to make everyone do it.\u201D Jeanette was right. It was her initiative. It was backed by the Labour Government, and National had nothing to do with it, except that it inherited the programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E In respect of trees, we did have deforestation before we had a price on carbon. Deforestation increased before that price of carbon came. The only way that we were going to stop that was through the emissions trading scheme, and that is what stopped deforestation, and also gave an incentive towards further planting of trees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe problem with Dr Smith\u2019s analysis is, first, he ignores that reality; second, he ignores the fact that he voted against the emissions trading scheme legislation that the Greens, the Labour Party, and New Zealand First, between them, brought into effect; and, third, he ignores the fact that, as Brian Fallow now says, the emissions trading scheme has been put into an \u201Cinduced coma\u201D because of the National Party\u2019s tinkering with the scheme: putting a price cap on it without putting in a floor, a two-for-one obligation, and refusing to restrict, in a proper way, the infiltration of low-cost units from overseas, which have then seen a collapse in the price of carbon. So the revisionist view of Dr Smith as to who is doing what in climate change policy is somewhat galling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThen we heard the Minister for Primary Industries, and sometimes we hear the Prime Minister, claiming credit for the research that is being done in respect of pastoral livestock emissions, and even that is not actually an initiative of the current Government. All it has done is take things backward, including in transport, where the last Government increased public transport funding twelvefold, and this Government instead pours ever more money into highways and relatively less into public transport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EDr Smith also says that you can have a tax switch that puts taxes on low-income people through GST to fund a tax cut for high-income people, but you cannot have a tax switch towards the environment. That is what an increase in the price of carbon would be. It would be a tax switch, not an increase in total taxes. We will be supporting this bill going to select committee. One final point\u2014the existing Act says already that the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022807cdf0ac4b643a1a24ab65f9ebf0fac\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. His time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00220e06a098028f452d8ad42bdf8a698745\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e06a098028f452d8ad42bdf8a698745\u0022\u003EPAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to draw this debate back a little bit in the direction of the bill itself, the Climate Change (New Zealand Superannuation Fund) Bill, which is what we are talking about. If you look at the general policy statement, it is quite interesting. It singles out Exxon Mobil as the cause for this bill because, apparently, the New Zealand Superannuation Fund has invested $43 million in Exxon Mobil, and this, apparently, is a bad thing. Well, I do not know about other members in the House, but I do not necessarily regard Exxon Mobil as evil\u2014nor Shell, BP, Todd Energy, or any of the other oil companies around the world. In fact, I quite like the fact that I can turn up at the petrol station, buy oil, and put it in my car. It serves me quite well. I like to be able to drive into town. I like to be able to go on to the motorway, and I quite like to go across the Newmarket Viaduct and swoop down Grafton Gully into town. It is magnificent. It is fantastic to be able to get around like that. I think cars are quite a good thing, and the fact that you need petrol to make a car go is one of the great inventions of our time. I do not necessarily think it is an evil thing, and I cannot see why it would be regarded as a terrible thing, somehow, to invest in a company that provides something that makes the world go round. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThis bill also strikes me as somewhat sinister. When you look at the reasons, it quotes Exxon Mobil saying a couple of things, including that it is \u201Cvery difficult to determine objectively the extent to which recent climate changes might be the result of human actions.\u201D That, apparently, is a reason why the New Zealand Superannuation Fund should not be investing in that company. Somehow you stop trading with people because you do not like what they say. Well, that is an interesting principle, and a rather strange one. I probably do not like what some of the fishermen who go and catch the snapper that I eat say to each other, and I probably do not like some of their opinions, but I quite like the fish. I do not use that approach when I am buying things, and I do not quite see why the Superannuation Fund should follow the same approach. I wonder\u2014it is almost that you muzzle anybody who does not say what you like, as seems to be the approach of the Green Party. I do not agree with that policy at all, and I will not be supporting this bill, on that basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWhat does it mean, precisely, when we talk about investing only in a firm that follows \u201Cenvironmental sustainability\u201D? By whose definition? I imagine that, if it was by Mr Norman\u2019s definition, there probably would not be any companies at all that would measure up. Nothing would be quite sustainable enough for Mr Norman. So I do not support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBut it is worth noting, and Mr Smith, an earlier speaker, spoke very well on the National\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f89c5f89bd7a46848f1ef096373d7163\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Smith. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249eab5e1029c4905a95795ca68d475db\u0022\u003EPAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Smith spoke very well on the National Government\u2019s contribution to climate change policy. I will not reiterate all of that here, but I would say that when it comes to the investment policies of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, we are already practising responsible investment criteria. This bill intends only to formalise more red tape and more bureaucracy, and we do not support creating bureaucratic hurdles to investment, beyond some certain basic measures that we have put in place already. Our responsible investment framework, which is integrated into all our investment activities, I think serves us well already. This bill would take us backwards, and I do not support it, on that basis. Thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u0022251f84edac8546d189640df654e7df71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022251f84edac8546d189640df654e7df71\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I take a call on behalf of New Zealand First on the Climate Change (New Zealand Superannuation Fund) Bill. New Zealand First will support this bill through the first reading, to give it an opportunity in the light of day to see what can be drawn from it. We do have some reservations, but we do feel that at least it would be an opportunity to flesh out what the sponsor of this bill is trying to achieve in terms of climate change, the effects of climate change, and New Zealand\u2019s investments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EHowever, we do have some concerns in that, obviously, we do want to maximise our returns to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. I myself am certainly aware of comments that were made to me a year or so ago by a person who said that New Zealand already had some significant constraints on its investments around the world, because, for instance, it is not permitted to invest in any organisation that in any shape or form has any connections to the nuclear industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003ESometimes you can have very large organisations involved in all sorts of commercial activities, but the mere fact that one very minor, very small, part of an organisation\u2019s business\u2014it could be infinitesimal\u2014might be doing some nuclear science research or nuclear investigations of some manner, rules it completely out in terms of being eligible to be invested in with New Zealand superannuation funds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EI can recall this particular gentleman saying to me that New Zealand, as a result, often did not maximise its investments, because it had to avoid putting money in some areas where there was even a sniff of any connection with nuclear development, nuclear sciences, nuclear research, or anything of that nature. Sometimes that is not necessarily a bad thing, because, as we all know, in many areas of medicine and many areas of science there is nuclear research required within the nuclear sciences for the particular purposes of medicines and medical research. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EBut in this regard there are concerns about climate change, and everyone is increasingly concerned about what is happening. However, we have said in this Parliament that we do not support some of the radical notions surrounding climate change that would see New Zealand taxpayers and New Zealand companies paying a lot more money, and a lot more in terms of taxes or levies, to fund schemes to do with climate change, environmental effects, carbon taxes, and all these sorts of things, as a result of pollution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EWe feel that that is, again, a negative way of handling the situation, and that New Zealand should be investing its money in actually solving the problems, solving the pollution issues, and solving any problems in our own backyard first. We should be taking levies or any taxes to actually put them back into coming up with the remedies here within New Zealand, whether it be in our dairy industry, in our manufacturing industries, in our forestry industries, or in our other polluting-type industries. We believe that funding should be going into that work, not going into international money-go-rounds that end up with people basically making money in foreign markets out of the hard-earned earnings of New Zealand people and New Zealand companies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E In this regard there are some questions here about climate change in terms of, as was mentioned, Exxon Mobil and all these other organisations that do have an effect, but equally, you know, the list would go on and on and on and on, and where do you stop? Every major corporate around the world might have an aspect of its business that is having an effect, but, at the same time, we are seeing more and more of these corporations acting as good, socially responsible corporate organisations that are addressing the issues and trying to reduce their effects on climate change and their effects on pollution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003ESo we are prepared to let this bill go through for its first reading. We will hear what the member in charge of the bill has to say, hear what research the member has done, and find out what the officials can put forward, and then we will take it from there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022ceb47f72de0948a3ab34a7dc4e325b8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ceb47f72de0948a3ab34a7dc4e325b8b\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E The Government will be voting against this legislation, the Climate Change (New Zealand Superannuation Fund) Bill, because we believe it would be irresponsible to allow it to pass into law. We are already practising the responsible investment criteria that the bill seeks to formalise and, therefore, this bill would mean more red tape and more bureaucracy, and that would be irresponsible for New Zealanders. You see, we do not support creating red tape and bureaucracy around investment or in any other area where it is unnecessary in New Zealand. Actually, this Government has a very good record over the last 4 years of working through bureaucracy, so that New Zealanders and New Zealand businesses can get on doing the job that they need to, rather than having unnecessary Government intervention and interference. We also have responsible investment work integrated into our investment activities, and I believe very clearly that responsible asset owners will exercise best practice when it comes to portfolio management across a number of sectors and areas of interest\u2014environment, social, governance issues, and so on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESee, the purpose of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund is to meet the future requirements of New Zealanders when they retire, and this bill will do nothing but tinker with that objective. What it means at the moment is no Government interference, and I understand that this is a foreign concept to many members opposite. Indeed, Russel Norman is the current Opposition finance spokesman. He wants to get his hands on every single part of the pie that he can. We have already heard from Mr Norman that he intends, when he becomes Minister of Finance in a Green-Labour coalition, to print billions of dollars\u2014magic them out of thin air\u2014to solve some of the challenges that we have in New Zealand at the moment around meeting our debts and balancing the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWell, indeed, the Governor of the Reserve Bank came before the Finance and Expenditure Committee not so many\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6e97863e9e243e1bf199ac07e569893\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This has absolutely nothing to do with the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239dc16d8c46e44e09f87ae1e81f634d8\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: It has been a pretty wide debate, I would have to say, so I know the member will come back to the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d50a5e606da4b1bbd26c3bf57174dfe\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker, and I am going to continue, because it has absolutely everything to do with his bill\u2014the credibility of the member who has brought it forward and the devastating effect that legislation like this and other things that that member has been spouting up and down the country will have upon New Zealand and the New Zealand economy. So I continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EMr Norman said that he wants to print billions of dollars to solve some of our problems\u2014magic them out of thin air. Quantitative easing, of course. The Governor of the Reserve Bank came before the Finance and Expenditure Committee and said that this was a desperate policy, and I agree with him wholeheartedly. We have heard from Mr Norman, in line with what this bill would seek to do in New Zealand, that he wants to tax the most productive businesses in New Zealand out of existence. You know, he hates rural New Zealand. He would love to see farmers give up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218ded2010c4d443c90386cd14920836e\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I take offence at the comments by that member that I hate rural New Zealand. It is completely untrue and I take offence at it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c39090a9b09448f8aed855188064e76\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, look, these are debating points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223346918cd4ba4864a49dc0c80b5779d4\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Good. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Most of the policies that that party of Mr Norman portrays to New Zealanders would lead a reasonable person to believe that he hates rural New Zealand and wants to see farmers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204311210a94748098ec2096b70ee9c95\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member\u2019s opinion that someone might hate rural New Zealand has nothing to do with this bill. I would ask that you keep him on the topic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9428e4f69fb4adda5760bf7e24e8561\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am the judge of that, and this has been a pretty wide debate. It has been a fair debate, pretty equitable\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe0a66efc0e04511b9c17ea3115bd8eb\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: No, it hasn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aa5aa4aa4ab47d5ac3657161f985f19\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am on my feet, and do not interrupt when I am on my feet. I am asking the member\u2014the member has 1 minute to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ec0c07189334072ac0d198a82e6a916\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. So what this member who has brought this bill before the House wants is to see the most productive part of New Zealand, our farmers and our dairy farmers, on welfare. Well, that is not good enough for the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EFinally, with his bill he wants to get his hands on the New Zealand Superannuation Fund and put the future of all New Zealanders at risk. That is irresponsible and this is a very bad piece of legislation. When it comes actually to the detail of what he thinks needs to happen in this area, and indeed what the Superannuation Fund is already doing, it has signed up to a wide number of codes of conduct and international bodies that put integrity, including environmental integrity, at the heart of the way it makes decisions about their investments. A most important part of this is that it is up to it to decide what it is it does with New Zealand funds. Members opposite, in coalition with the Green Party, where those Green Party members will take on extremely important roles in Government in finance, should keep their hands off these funds. I am very happy to say we will be voting against this legislation, because it would do great harm to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund and to New Zealand businesses\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5cfd3c0be7b414eb2e8e1bb789c0501\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5cfd3c0be7b414eb2e8e1bb789c0501\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member, but his time has expired. [Interruption] Order! I call\u2014[Interruption] Order! I am calling the Hon Shane Jones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5496e813b084101b1c71df00e594833\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5496e813b084101b1c71df00e594833\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Before I opened my mouth, Mr Speaker, you were screaming \u201COrder!\u201D. Please assure me that it is directed to that side of the House and not to this, sort of, very modest individual who is about to share a thought or three.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223578f19d125e498ab9425bde46df250b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am giving you the call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276567898b7e747de9dd09dd3adda3dfa\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: In the spirit of fraternal relations, I stand with my colleagues to support Russel Norman\u2019s member\u2019s bill, the Climate Change (New Zealand Superannuation Fund) Bill, this afternoon. Let there be no doubt about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022251ab5ec0a8c494cbf72d53862155190\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Notwithstanding the crap that he writes about you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd15fc680b344185a0ed83545b9cbf80\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, one has to suffer the slings and arrows of coalition-building into the future\u2014I am talking possibly about Winston Peters there, but that is another matter. But I want to actually begin by directing the attention of our colleagues on the other side of the House to something that is already in the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act\u2014section 58(2)(c)\u2014which, actually, requires a level of transparency in decision making to avoid a prejudicial view about our reputation internationally taking root. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EFor that side of the House to insist that Mr Norman\u2019s contribution is, No. 1, ultra vires the Act and, No. 2, likely to undermine the viability of the fund or its profitability shows the characteristically showy but shallow level of information that those members actually use when talking about the Cullen fund. We had a figure from Madame Tussaud\u2019s wax museum, Dr Nick Smith, coming and lecturing us about this bill being designed to ruin the country\u2019s reputation in terms of climate change. On that point I have to agree with the colleagues from the Green Party. That is not being done by this bill. That level of opprobrium settling upon the fine reputation of Aotearoa has been manufactured by that side of the House and worsened by the behaviour of the Government\u2019s officials overseas who are so embarrassed that they cannot even look straight in the eye of their confr\u00E8res from other negotiating teams. So it has got nothing to do with this bill. The worsening of our reputation in relation to climate change is a deliberate policy direction being pursued by the current Government, which it is entitled to do as a part of what it thinks is the optimum mix of policies for the country, but we know that, as a consequence of those policies, the costs will fall on the most vulnerable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ESo let me come back to the bill. It is not unreasonable that the Cullen fund focuses on those areas that are not, actually, going to worsen the country\u2019s reputation or create negative externalities that will not be picked up by the businesses that are running the enterprises that the Cullen fund is investing in. It may actually overrun slightly. I understand that Annette King, the redoubtable member for out at Miramar way\u2014closely related to certain other members on the other side of the House\u2014today opened a gas station owned by the Cullen fund. So there has to be some balance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe Cullen fund currently does have investments in areas where perhaps\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e748ea2a6205453aa18801b08a593152\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Half of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d31c4ef7b674879a0a2ac544fbbf16a\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Fifty percent. Fifty percent\u2014not unlike the vote capture we will enjoy in 2 years\u2019 time. I like that figure\u2014I like that figure. I am not talking about my biological make up of 50-20-25\u2014no. We are talking about why this piece of legislation will actually enhance the reputation of the Cullen fund. It is not going to throttle and undermine the work of the guardians. It is just going to direct them to ensure that the investments do not reward those kinds of industries that are slowly but surely choking the transition of not only the fund and the nation, but also, in many respects, many of the developed countries. The Cullen fund guardians were encouraged by the Government to move towards 50 percent of the capital being invested in domestic industries\u2014indigenous industries. That has been an abject failure. It could be that that is what the Government fears. It says one thing, but actually delivers another. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI think the alarmist rhetoric coming from the other side of the House, which is reflective, unfortunately, of the loud but vacuous minds that are conceiving it, should not worry about Mr Norman being the Minister of Finance. That decision will be made by higher forces\u2014higher forces. No, those decisions will be made by the colleagues here and that lies well after the next election. Coming back to the Cullen fund, it is a fine fund and is reflective of the very innovative approach that this side of the House took to the art of government. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u002226bb160d0def4d91b8075c2a44546b71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226bb160d0def4d91b8075c2a44546b71\u0022\u003EJULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. It is a great pleasure to speak on this excellent member\u2019s bill, the Climate Change (New Zealand Superannuation Fund) Bill, introduced by my colleague Dr Russel Norman. Climate change is, as we all know, the greatest challenge facing human well-being. That is our well-being. That is the well-being of New Zealand families and of New Zealand businesses, as well as the well-being of people across the world. Climate change is real. We know it is caused by certain activities that humans have engaged in just over the past few centuries. Bloomberg Businessweek\u2014not well-known for its extreme environmentalism\u2014had on its cover page the week after Hurricane Sandy: \u201CIt\u2019s Global Warming, Stupid.\u201D It is not a left-wing conspiracy. It is a well-understood result of digging up millions of years of stored fossil energy and burning it in a short period of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWe in the Green Party live in the real world, unlike the Government members. We understand that the world is changing, and we understand that we have to deal with this change. Climate change is not only a challenge; it is also an opportunity. It is an opportunity to do things smarter, and this bill is a good example of doing things smarter. As we heard from my colleague, this bill is going to, in a very small way, support investment in clean industries, which are the growth industries of this century, by directing the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to consider environmental sustainability and climate change when making its investments. But it is not only that that is the right thing to do if we want to preserve human well-being; it is also a smarter financial bet. If you accept that climate change is real, then it is obvious that humans are going to have to do something about it and that sooner or later fossil fuel industries will be in decline. It is clean industries that will replace them. It makes more sense, if one is investing for the long term, for the future, to put our money in those industries that are going to be successful in our lifetimes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218f273f0812c406aa039dbc5f837ab71\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is right, of course it will happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af30a050a8264a1f91a53f0da9c2c8b6\u0022\u003EJULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: I know that the member the Hon Steven Joyce does not live in the real world, and is not really aware of what is happening. The thing is that climate change is arguably the biggest market failure. Because markets can only consider short-term profitability, it is the role of Governments\u2014democratically elected Governments\u2014to step in and give some long-term playing rules, rules of engagement, so that we can make smarter investments. Smarter investments will allow us to thrive in the future and are actually not only better for the planet, but better for humans, better for our economic activity, and better for those who are going to be drawing down from the New Zealand Superannuation Fund in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EAccording to the Government, we cannot afford to prepare for climate change. We cannot afford to take the steps through rational economic instruments like a meaningful price on carbon, which would help our economy transition to a smart green footing. But the reality is that we cannot afford not to prepare for climate change. It is the reality. It does not matter whether there are a number of developing countries that have not yet signed up to reduction targets, because the reality is that New Zealand\u2019s per capita emissions are the fifth worst in the world. If we are going to survive and thrive in the clean green economy of the future, we need to start taking steps now, and that requires Government leadership. Unfortunately, we do not see any leadership of this sort from the Government. We see just a denial of reality and a continuation of the same failed policies of the last century, which will not help us to be successful in the future. It is a real shame that the Government is not going to support what is actually quite a logical bill, introduced by my colleague tonight. I am really sorry to see that. I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u00220f76ce2b51a847c8801472c4d59fc1e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f76ce2b51a847c8801472c4d59fc1e1\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E I think the comments of the last speaker, Julie Anne Genter, and her predecessor Dr Norman make it quite clear that this Climate Change (New Zealand Superannuation Fund) Bill, comprising essentially one page with an operative paragraph, is an exercise in theatre, not substance. The last speaker did not issue one word in the way of comment on the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThe point of the bill is this: it is brought to this House by that economic wizard who would have us engage in qualitative easing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a75399a108847f4b3de39942f8ede7b\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Quantitative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9d429e24266432397c841b89da89077\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: Quantitative easing. What a nonsense that is for this economy when we have an interest rate of 2.6 percent. If the Reserve Bank wants to kick the economy along, the governor has got room to move. You would bring in quantitative easing, as the Americans are doing, only when your discount rate is zero, when your interest rate is zero. We are not in that space. So the ideas that were brought to Parliament by the co-leader of the Green Party on quantitative easing and on this bill are both thoroughly misguided. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EWe are already practising the responsible investment criteria that this bill would like to see formalised. What this bill would do is give us more red tape and more bureaucracy, and it would stymie the job that is clearly spelt out for directors of companies and institutions. We do not, as a party, believe at all in supporting or creating bureaucratic hurdles to investment, which this bill would do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E Our responsible investment work is integrated into all investment activities. For example, understanding social and governance issues is a really important part of our risk assessment and is a due diligence that is required by directors and trustees on prospective individual investments. On this side of the House we are inclined to think that responsible asset owners who exercise best-practice portfolio management will already have a concern for environmental, social, and governance issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EAs Nick Smith pointed out earlier, this Government has introduced a huge number of things to support climate change. Contrary to what I heard the co-leader of the Green Party saying the other day, New Zealand has not left the Kyoto Protocol. We are still a full member. We are simply aligning ourselves with the developed economies in terms of pursuing future climate change measures that the whole world will come to accept\u2014that 193 countries of the globe will sign up to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EIf we go to the purpose of this fund, we can see that its obligation or purpose is to meet future New Zealand superannuation payments. In fulfilling this purpose, the board has to invest the fund in a manner consistent with two objectives. The first is prudent commercial management of the fund, and that is a primary objective because it influences the ability of the fund to fulfil its purpose: to pay money to superannuitants. The second purpose that the directors have to follow, or the second objective for directors, is recognition that the fund is owned by the Crown, and the Crown bears the financial and reputational risks resulting from the activities of the fund. This is a secondary objective related to the manner in which the first objective, paying money to superannuitants, is achieved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EOur responsible investment work programme is closely aligned to the United Nations Principles for Responsible Investment. This is an internationally accepted benchmark for how institutional investors should manage environmental, social, and governance issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EAs I said at the outset, this is an exercise in Green theatre. It is not an exercise in substance. It is not even a smart idea. I intend personally to vote against this bill along with colleagues here in the National Government. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9acd027614b433e9134bd1ff33b0b2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9acd027614b433e9134bd1ff33b0b2d\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Members opposite might be sort of slightly surprised to learn that there are parts of the comments that have been made by John Hayes that I actually agree with. My view is that although I will support the Climate Change (New Zealand Superannuation Fund) Bill, it is one of those 60:40 things because I think, as the member said, it is a matter of theatre rather than having a bill that has real substance to it. It is opportunistic. It is worth having the discussion, but, actually, if we are doing ethical investment, if we are going to extend ethical investment, I think it is worth looking at a lot more issues than just climate change. I think the bill would have got more support if, in fact, it had been more extensive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003ESection 58(2)(c) of the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001, the governing legislation, already requires the fund to manage its investments so as to avoid \u201Cprejudice to New Zealand\u2019s reputation as a responsible member of the world community.\u201D So for members opposite to say \u201CForget about ethical investment.\u201D, as they have been saying, is absolutely wrong. We already have some criteria. My view is that those criteria are not tight enough. I think those criteria, along with some of the questions as to the shape of the investments, the balance in New Zealand, and the balance towards New Zealand - owned and some of the higher-risk businesses, could be given more of an opportunity. Certainly, New Zealanders deserve to see the very good analysis that has been done by the Superannuation Fund. My view is that that should be shared much more widely than it currently is, and that would help us get some depth\u2014some better depth\u2014in our investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003ENational promised in 2008 that 40 percent of the Superannuation Fund would be invested in New Zealand. That is another one of its broken promises. Four years later I think it has just got over the 20 percent mark. It has made almost no progress at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI am very proud of the Cullen fund. I think it has been something that has had very good returns and a very good investment policy. The teams that have sat behind it\u2014along with ACC, actually\u2014have done some of the best investment analysis work that has been done in New Zealand. But, as I say, I think it is a pity that that work is not more widely shared. There are a lot of other funds\u2014smaller funds\u2014that would be able to follow the teams\u2019 direction, especially in regard to, in New Zealand, normally unlisted investments. And even in some of the smaller investment companies, the quality of the analysis that is publicly available is not very good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I say to Russel Norman that we support this bill, but it is a pity that a bit more work was not done on it to make it something that really went to the question of ethical investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce0f29ca2e9f47f08f093dfcd3f240fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce0f29ca2e9f47f08f093dfcd3f240fe\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Russel Norman, 5 minutes in reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u00228937dcaf46dd433abd9abf7f95ac8263\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228937dcaf46dd433abd9abf7f95ac8263\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E It was clear during this debate that there is not a lot of knowledge about responsible investment, particularly on the Government side of the House. The Norwegian pension fund, which is one of the biggest sovereign wealth funds in the world\u2014over US$500 billion under management\u2014has some of the strongest responsible investment guidelines of any of the sovereign wealth funds by far, actually, and has been a very successful fund. So when the Government says \u201COh, well, we cannot have responsible investment guidelines; it\u2019ll destroy the New Zealand Superannuation Fund.\u201D, that is just because it does not really know what is going on in the world, and there are a lot of things happening in the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe National Government, which on the one hand is arguing that responsible investment will destroy the Cullen fund, on the other hand argues that it already has responsible investment guidelines, so we do not really need this bill. But it cannot have it both ways. So it is not a consistent position that the Government has taken, because there is not really a logical argument there, which I think is pretty sad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe Government also argues that we cannot have standards, or red tape as it calls it. This, of course, is the National Party that brought us the leaky homes disaster\u2014a $20 billion leaky homes disaster because National weakened the rules around housing. It is also National that has brought us a lot of dead miners, because it wanted to weaken the rules around the regulation of health and safety legislation at work. So it seems to me that although the National Party consistently opposes standards\u2014consistently opposes standards\u2014none the less standards are important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe Green Party believes that standards matter, so for that reason we have no problem with adding a fourth dimension to the current guidelines that are in the bill. I think Shane Jones actually hit the nail on the head, because Shane Jones, in what I thought was a very good speech, said that the investment fund already has a kind of responsible investment guideline when it talks about avoiding prejudice to New Zealand\u2019s reputation as a responsible member of the world community. So there is already a relatively weak responsible investment guideline, and what we are trying to do is strengthen it up, particularly around sustainability and climate change. I think that is a worthwhile thing to achieve, and I thank Labour, New Zealand First, and, of course, the Greens, and Mana for supporting this proposal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EI think, really, when it comes down to it, climate change is one of the most difficult issues that we have to deal with as a species. It is difficult because it requires action now for future gain. Most of the gain is not going to be for us here now; it is going to be for those in the future. It requires collective global action and that is a very difficult thing to coordinate, and those two things make it extremely difficult for our species to deal with climate change and to make the kinds of changes we need. It requires challenging existing vested interests\u2014vested interests that can have a very strong voice today\u2014in order to advance the interests of those who are yet to be born. So it is a really difficult problem because we have very powerful vested interests and we have heard them speak one after another from the National Party today. We have those powerful vested interests who have a one-vote majority in this Parliament and who are against taking action on climate change, and that makes it very difficult when you have those powerful vested interests today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EIt also requires an understanding of science. I think that clearly\u2014and we have seen it again tonight and we have seen it often from the National Party members, who have opposed taking action on climate change over a very long time\u2014they think it is very difficult. It is very difficult for a lot of people to get their heads around the science. So when you put all of those problems together, you can see why as a species we have had so much trouble dealing with this problem of climate change. But the reality is that if we read the science and if we read the reports from the international organisations, what comes through very clearly is that we need to take action today in order to avoid out-of-control climate change, which will have a dramatic impact on people who are being born today. We are seeing just the very beginning of it today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ESo although I think it very likely this bill will not get the numbers in this House today, there are enough of us who are determined to do something so that over time we will make progress, because if we do not make progress on this critical issue, it will be our children and our children\u2019s children, and to some degree even us, who will suffer as a result. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223bc62e1136af4f9e822fcad1bd1f5e5c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Climate Change (New Zealand Superannuation Fund) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 2; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222dfd1ffe20a44359a72d3af330809a6e\u0022\u003EElectronic Transactions (Contract Formation) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022811a399d0dc74a9fae498ba0ffc66acc\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00228ef0a5b93b4f40d98b07e9da1b97837f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ef0a5b93b4f40d98b07e9da1b97837f\u0022\u003EPAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Electronic Transactions (Contract Formation) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Commerce Committee to consider the Electronic Transactions (Contract Formation) Amendment Bill. This bill clarifies a point of contract law that is currently vague. Its purpose is simply to clarify the legal position on the time at which a contract is formed if the acceptance of the offer is sent by some form of electronic communication. The bill recognises the need for contractual transactions to join the electronic age. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe general rule of contract formation is that a contract is formed at the time an acceptance of the offer is communicated to the offerer. So when someone says: \u201CYes, I accept the offer.\u201D or the offerer and the acceptor shake hands, then the deal is done. However, an exception to the rule was created for acceptances by post. This goes back to the case of Adams v Lindsell of 1818. I might trespass on the time of the House to explain the details of that case. The case involved two parties to the sale of some wool. On 2 September 1818 the defendants wrote to the plaintiffs, offering to sell them certain fleeces, and required an answer in the course of post. The defendants misdirected the letter, so that the plaintiffs did not receive it until 5 September. The plaintiffs posted their acceptance on the same day, but it was not received until 9 September. Meanwhile, on 8 September the defendants, not having received an answer by 7 September as they expected, sold the wool to somebody else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe defendants argued that there could not be a binding contract until the answer was actually received and that until then they were free to sell the wool to somebody else. The judge said that if that was true, it would be impossible to complete any contracts through the post, because if the defendants were not bound by their offer until the answer was received, then the plaintiffs would not be bound until they had received word, and it would go on and on indefinitely. And so it was decided that when the offeree placed his acceptance in the post there was a fictional meeting of minds that concluded that the offer was done and gave effect to the acceptance. That idea was tidied further into what is now referred to as the postal acceptance rule in the 1892 case Henthorn v Fraser, where the court determined the precise timing of the acceptance\u2014that is, the moment when the letter of acceptance was posted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThat longstanding rule as to postal acceptances in Adams v Lindsell is not appropriate for electronic transactions. This has already been recognised by the courts in relation to acceptance of contractual offers by telex as far back as 1955 and Entores Ltd v Miles Far East Corporation, which treated the communication being, as with the telephone, simultaneous. So the contract was formed when the offeree said yes. The facts in that case involved a London-based trading company sending an offer by telex for the purchase of copper cathodes from a company based in Amsterdam. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThere is no clear authority on acceptance by way of email. This bill will serve to clarify the law. The position with telex differs from emails. Communication by telex is generally acknowledged at each end, the sending machine and receiving machine. With email, it is not known to the sender that an email has been received unless confirmation is received from the recipient. This postal acceptance rule was based on the policy that the post office was an assured means of communication and acted as a form of agent for transmission, provided there was proof of posting. Emails are delivered by a variety of servers, and there is not the same assurance that an email, once put into the ether, will be delivered. Proof that an email has been posted is also difficult, because it is not a simple matter of obtaining a receipt for a registered letter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThis bill provides, in my view, an appropriate way to deal with the email acceptances by providing that an offer can be accepted by electronic communication and is deemed to be accepted at the time of receipt by the offerer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204e0d63d74504707889e315c99f97c30\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: What does receipt mean?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3f71438fa364d1692d8b3ba658d1af7\u0022\u003EPAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that is, when it arrives in the offerer\u2019s in-box. You can know when that is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E So why is this important?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e02989b7688a45eabdb97191a3cde408\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Why doesn\u2019t the bill say that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da0462d6549d48b69abda7dd8d1ebc7c\u0022\u003EPAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is something that the select committee can look at when we get down to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo why is this important? Well, on its own this bill is not going to bring about the brighter future to which we all aspire and to which this Government is so committed, but it is a small and useful addition to the latter\u2019s work. Clear and predictable laws governing commerce are some of the foundations of the success of the modern economy upon which our prosperity depends. Clarity and certainty lead to confidence, and confidence leads to greater investment. So our laws need consistently to be maintained and adapted to respond to changing technology. This bill tidies up one small area of uncertainty and will go some way to increasing the flow of business. Given the prevalence of electronic communications in society today, including email, smartphones, and social media, it is useful that the current Act be amended to cover such areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EIt is worth digressing briefly to fit this bill into the broader context of a Government committed to operating online in the 21st century. As part of the National-led Government\u2019s determination to make the public services work better for taxpayers, businesses, and consumers, we have set a target that an average of 70 percent of New Zealanders\u2019 most common transactions with Government will be completed in a digital environment by 2017, up from 24 percent currently. Ten transactions, the House may be interested to know, are being used to measure progress towards a 70 percent uptake of online services. These include the renewal of adult passports, applying for visas, applying for financial assistance through the Ministry of Social Development, filing tax returns, paying fines, paying vehicle licensing, SmartGate for air travellers, and booking Department of Conservation assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ELikewise, this bill is all the more relevant as the Government rolls out its investment in ultra-fast broadband, which will revolutionise the way many businesses, schools, health care providers, and communities operate. It will help overcome the tyranny of distance from the rest of the world. This Government has committed $1.5 billion to plug New Zealand into the world, through ultra-fast broadband and our Rural Broadband Initiative. That wool merchant and his customer, Adams v Lindsell, doing their business more than two centuries ago, could not have imagined the modern world where contracts can be formed instantly between traders in London and Auckland. But the fundamentals of business have not changed, in that trading is amongst the most natural activities of humanity. It is a civilising activity, because at bottom it is about making an arrangement from which both parties benefit, and, most of all, trade flourishes when there is a shared understanding of the rules. I trust this bill will go some way to add to that shared understanding, and on that basis I commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00223de0e0f7a1384692bd9f20f7b5671f91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223de0e0f7a1384692bd9f20f7b5671f91\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E The normal practice for the Labour Party when there is a member\u2019s bill that is well drafted and heading in a general direction that the Labour Party approves of is to send it off to a select committee. But this bill, the Electronic Transactions (Contract Formation) Amendment Bill, is a bill that is very badly drafted. It is an area that the Government should be dealing with, and it is a relatively minor area and would almost certainly slip through statutes amendment legislation or commerce law reform legislation. When it is left to a member like this, Paul Goldsmith, to draft a bill, what do we end up with? We end up with a bill that does not even achieve what it is meant to on the face of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe really important point\u2014the issue that the bill is designed to remedy\u2014is the lack of definition of \u201Creceipt\u201D when it comes to electronic transactions. This bill does not remedy it. We would not mind if the member had done it and got it wrong. If he had said it was received by a server, or it was in an in-box, or it was in an in-box and it was open\u2014if he had picked something and defined \u201Creceipt\u201D as that\u2014well, then, we could have had a discussion about it at the select committee, and we could have heard the evidence and worked out whether that was the right thing or not. But this member brings a bill to the House that does not even pick one of the alternatives. He did not even look at the essence of the question that he was meant to be answering in bringing in this legislation before he put his name on it. Do you know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e92c13717fa48ad9b58a51ff90e7fa6\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: He knew Paul Quinn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022111c8684ce954974a6817af78cb5ede4\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no, Paul Quinn is an intellectual giant\u2014an intellectual giant\u2014in comparison with Paul Goldsmith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002229760573f94d4b2ca84c5808f3b87620\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229760573f94d4b2ca84c5808f3b87620\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member, but the time has come for me to leave the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212056159c6f0658d4ff49ba7ecca5ef5d121000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227e931b1fa68845268f3fc48dc06bd665\u0022\u003EWednesday, 5 December 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fd2baf42561541d9a0d20ba678a75097\u0022\u003E(continued on Thursday, 6 December 2012)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220ca1e968422943f2a3c08a0b6d693718\u0022\u003EStatutes Amendment Bill (No 3)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002285161be0750a4585b975d9053b6e5507\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00220ba7bdda049f49bba103947c5a97bbf3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ba7bdda049f49bba103947c5a97bbf3\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 3) be now read a second time. The Statutes Amendment Bill (No 3) is an omnibus bill designed to provide a legislative vehicle for minor technical and non-controversial amendments existing\u2014well, you all know this stuff. The current bill contains amendments to 16 Acts of Parliament administered by five different Government agencies. It consists of 87 clauses in total. The bill is a good example of parliamentary parties working together, and I thank members from across the House, who have engaged in the process and will be supporting it forthwith. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI would like to touch on a couple of key things the bill does. Part 8 of the bill amends the Lawyers and Conveyancers Act 2006 to establish two Deputy Legal Complaints Review Officers in schedule 3 of the Act, instead of one deputy. The increase in the number of deputies from one to two will assist the current officers in managing the caseload. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EAn amendment to the Heavy Engineering Research Levy Act 1978 will keep members on the edge of their seats. It will increase the maximum prescribed rates of research levy set out in schedules 2 and 3 of the Act. These increases will ensure that the levy rates are sufficient to cover the cost of the research and technology transfer services the levies are intended to fund. This amendment is particularly important, as the levies contribute towards essential research into the effect of the Christchurch earthquake on steel-framed buildings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EAn amendment to section 100(2)(b) of the Real Estate Agents Act 2008 will increase the number of members, additional to the chairperson, who may be appointed to the Real Estate Agents Disciplinary Tribunal from four to five. An increase in the number of members who may be appointed to the tribunal will allow more hearings to be held and improve timeliness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe bill was reported back by the Government Administration Committee on 19 June, and I thank the committee for its careful deliberations. The committee has recommended improvements to Parts 2, 13, and 15 of the bill, and I endorse those changes. An example of those changes are changes to the amendments to the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families Act 1989. These changes make clarifications around the timing of custody orders to resolve conflicts between changes made to section 108 of the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003ESince the bill was referred to the committee for its consideration in February this year I have received requests for, and approved, the inclusion of four additional amendments in the bill. It has also come to my attention that two of the amendments originally proposed for inclusion in the bill are now no longer needed\u2014the first because it relates to a point in time that has passed, and the second because the amendment has progressed through another bill. I intend to move to include these amendments and remove the latter two amendments by way of Supplementary Order Paper 165 at the Committee of the whole House stage. These amendments include minor corrections to the Ngati Porou Claims Settlement Act and the Te Roroa Claims Settlement Act 2008. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe Supplementary Order Paper also proposes amendments to the New Zealand Geographic Board (Ng\u0101 Pou Taunaha o Aotearoa) Act 2008, which I am sure we will hear more about from the Hon Maurice Williamson shortly. It clarifies that the New Zealand Geographic Board can assign two or more names for the same geographic feature or Crown-protected area, which can be used either separately or together in official documents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI would like to speak on that for a moment as it affects the naming of the city of Whanganui, the principal location of a population in my electorate. Some people would prefer to say \u201CFanganui\u201D, and to those people who prefer to say \u201CFanganui\u201D rather than \u201CWanganui\u201D, we say: \u201CGet the \u2018f\u2019 out of Whanganui.\u201D The dialect locally in Whanganui and in Taranaki, of course, puts the \u201Ch\u201D before the \u201Cw\u201D in the way that they pronounce it. The argument, then, which was pretty hot around the city of Whanganui and greater regions, funnily enough, seems to be one of the most frequently asked questions of the member for Whanganui, which is: \u201CSo is it \u2018Fanganui\u2019 or is it \u2018Wanganui\u2019?\u201D. And if you really want to annoy people from Whanganui, Mr Deputy Speaker, as you found the other night at Bellamy\u2019s, just start pronouncing it with an \u201Cf\u201D instead of putting the \u201Ch\u201D before the \u201Cw\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe argument seems to suggest, though, that we should have different spellings around the country depending on accent and dialect. Taking that to its logical, or illogical, conclusion, we would end up by having a different spelling in the South Island, where Ng\u0101i Tahu pronounce their \u201Cng\u201D as a \u201Ck\u201D. T\u016Bhoe sometimes pronounce the \u201Cr\u201D as an \u201Cn\u201D, and Tai Tokerau drop the \u201Cw\u201D so Whanganui would be \u201CHanganui\u201D. Then Te Arawa, Tainui, and Tai R\u0101whiti prefer a hard \u201Cf\u201D sound for the \u201Cwh\u201D, as noted above. We should not find\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022813d1cc7c4944e87be8f35450facd3ba\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: How does Hansard write all this down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022824fc7627f2c4451969030078678bd36\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: They are good\u2014they are good. I will tell you what, they are better than you or I ever said they were. We should find this a major affront. If we do not insist that the \u201C \u2019ammer \u2019and from \u2019Ampsted \u2019Eath\u201D spell it accordingly, then we should take cognisance of the fact that dialects do not necessarily have to be reflected to pay due diligence to their users. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI speak as somebody whose name is Borrows, which in the common English meaning of the word means to scrounge or, more politely, to take on loan. It is pronounced as it is spelt. But it does not seem to stop the vast majority of constituents, politicians, and correspondents spelling it and pronouncing it \u201CBurrows\u201D, like the rabbit. So most of my mail is addressed to \u201CBurrows\u201D, as are newspaper attributions and references of the radio and television announcers. Telecom has me in the book under both spellings, because it cannot get it right. Leaders of various political parties and even the Prime Minister have a bit of trouble sometimes pronouncing the name correctly. They are all intelligent and articulate people, and we do not hold it against them that they happen to pronounce one name a particular way, let alone how they would pronounce Whanganui. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe bill proposes a number of useful changes to the statute book that are minor, technical, and non-controversial. I thank the committee for its hard work. I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00228dc7427ef20f43a19e9bff6bad1dd83e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228dc7427ef20f43a19e9bff6bad1dd83e\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Opposition intends to support the second reading of this bill, the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 3). We will have a discussion about the level of detail with which we will examine it at the Committee stage. With the late changes and the errors of work on the part of the Attorney-General in his previous work, there will be a discussion about whether we allow those clauses to go forward. My colleagues will no doubt do some consultation over the next 2 or 3 hours, before we get to those particular votes in the Committee stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI think it is worth putting on record though that this piece of legislation looks like it will go through its entire process as part of an extended sitting. It is an indication to me that where there is legislation that is non-controversial, there is an opportunity for a bit of extra time to be taken while select committees are sitting, and to progress that legislation in a way that is useful to the House and does not take away time that would otherwise be used for debating matters that would be controversial and which the Opposition would want to oppose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI know the Attorney-General is a bit sensitive about it. He did not like the idea of two Chambers sitting at once\u2014or the Committee sitting while the House is sitting\u2014from some sort of puritanical perspective. But in the end the National Government overruled him and accepted this process, and I am pleased it is working well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u0022915f4528069744efbb27124550aa648f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022915f4528069744efbb27124550aa648f\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to take a quick call on this Statutes Amendment Bill. I want to focus only on the one issue for which a lot of my time was consumed, and that was the issue that arose 3 years ago now, I would say, out of the city of Wanganui, where a lot of my ancestry, the Williamson family, all came from. As you leave Marton, heading into Wanganui, there is a road called Williamsons Line. I had almost a sort of a conflict of interest, because I have a lot of aunties and uncles who lived in the area. They were pretty angry on one side of the debate. When I met with local iwi and talked it through, they were pretty strongly minded on the other side of the debate that Wanganui actually had an \u201Ch\u201D in it for a long time. The electorate that Chester Borrows represents has an \u201Ch\u201D in it, the river has an \u201Ch\u201D in it already, but the town does not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThe iwi showed me a lot of historic documents, and I even found a book written by an ancestor of mine from the Williamsons, three or four generations back, called For Better or Worse, talking about when they arrived in the area. They spelt the whole place with an \u201Ch\u201D back then. Even the local newspaper had an \u201Ch\u201D in the Whanganui. So what seemed to me was like this was a huge issue. There were locals who were almost going to secede from the union if we put an \u201Ch\u201D in and there were the local iwi and others who believed that the \u201Ch\u201D was actually that vital to go in\u2014even though the local iwi, with its pronunciation, does not pronounce it as an \u201Cf\u201D when it is pronounced \u201Cwh\u201D. To those of you who have heard Tariana Turia speak in the House, she would call it \u201Cw\u2019\u0101nau\u201D, whereas most M\u0101ori I hear would call it \u201Cwh\u0101nau\u201D. It is just the way that the pronunciation goes in Whanganui. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003ESo if you are not even going to pronounce it with an \u201Cf\u201D, there are a lot of people asking why you need to put it in. But I have never seen such emotional commitment from the local iwi. A lot of the elderly ladies who were there had tears in their eyes saying they felt it was that important to them. I came away from my consultation round saying, look, this has got to be a bit of a no-brainer. Why do we not just let people do whatever they want? The Government can do its bit\u2014that over time as stationery runs out or new signage needs to go up, or the district health board needs new signing on its vans, we can stick the \u201Ch\u201D in, no problem. And when the road signs need to be replaced, we can stick the \u201Ch\u201D in. So the Government could do its bit. But if you are a private sector company and you want to call yourself the Wanganui Hardware Distributing Company, you do not have to. So I came back here full of the joys of spring and thought I had got this nailed and that we would just go with the alternative. You can have it in or you do not have to have it in, and gradually, I think, over time the \u201Ch\u201D will become prevalent. I think it will just happen, but it will be by osmosis over time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EI got with my officials and they said: \u201CBut Minister, there\u2019s no statute on the book that allows you to have alternative place names.\u201D And I said: \u201CBut there is. There\u2019s Egmont/Taranaki and there\u2019s Aoraki/Mt Cook.\u201D They said: \u201CNo, no, sorry, Minister, you\u2019re wrong. They\u2019re dual place names.\u201D So you could go with dual\u2014there is a provision in the New Zealand Geographic Board legislation for dual naming. You could call it Whanganui/Wanganui, and that really made a lot of sense. We would call it a double Whanganui, but one would have an \u201Ch\u201D and one would not. So I said: \u201CWell, look, why don\u2019t we get something into the New Zealand Geographic Board legislation or the New Zealand Geographic Board (Ng\u0101 Pou Taunaha o Aotearoa) Act 2008, which says that we can have alternatives\u2014one or the other.\u201D I thought that was pretty easy and we asked how we would do this. We could do it through its own bill, but that will hardly get through the House. It will not be seen as that important and will sit at the bottom of the Order Paper and languish. Or let us stick it through a Statutes Amendment Bill. It will be non-controversial. Well, was I wrong! I was unable to persuade the Greens for nearly 2 years. I sat down with the Greens. I got Tariana Turia to work with the Greens\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a607cfe7ead648268aa9b6adc9867551\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: For 2 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0145b13f1c64b8a98cbe712d68902cc\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: I did not sit with them for 2 years, no, but I did sit over a period of time and I tried to persuade the Greens. I could not quite understand what their objection was. I did not know why they would not go with alternative names. The good news is that the Greens have now come onside, as they have to for a Statutes Amendment Bill. For those thousands or hundreds of thousands of people listening to the radio this morning on this show, you need to know that for a Statutes Amendment Bill to go through this place it has to have universal agreement\u2014unanimous agreement. If anyone disagrees, it does not get through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003ESo it is a really special moment in time for me. It will not be my finest hour in politics, but it is still a special hour to have been part of the culmination of a huge amount of work to be able to come here and sit through the second reading, the Committee stage, and, finally, a third reading, hopefully, today of this bill. The people of Whanganui can now rest easy in their beds at night. Those who do not want to use an \u201Ch\u201D do not have to; no one is going to make them. Those who do can whenever they like formally. And Government agencies will now be able to begin. I have given them a very clear directive not to just go out and replace everything tomorrow\u2014no need\u2014but over time to replace their letterhead, replace their stationery, replace their signage as it gets broken or is requiring replacement, and put the \u201Ch\u201D in. And now the river, the electorate, and, finally, actually the place name will have the coherence that I think local iwi wanted. I thank the House for its time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022725f6ef43a6f4c889689baa4a0149bd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022725f6ef43a6f4c889689baa4a0149bd2\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As the previous member on his feet, Maurice Williamson, indicated, these Statutes Amendment bills have a special place in the Standing Orders of the House. They are an annual exercise. They are reserved for non-controversial and technical amendments for which there must be unanimity in the House before they can proceed. Standing Order 301(2) provides that if any member of the House objects to any clause in any one of these types of bills, then the clause cannot proceed. That is why the Associate Minister of Justice, Mr Borrows, consults over each of these provisions in advance with all the political parties represented in the House to try to ascertain which proposals from Ministers for these types of technical and non-controversial amendments can go through on that basis. Typically what happens is that the relevant spokespeople will get a folder of those proposals from Mr Borrows\u2019 office, and be asked to consult with their spokespeople inside their parties as to whether the amendments truly are technical and non-controversial.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E I think it is fair to say that the majority of proposals are approved, but, obviously, if any member takes objection on the basis that there are policy considerations that ought to be more fully debated by the House, then the proposal comes out. There are other ways that other Parliaments deal with these types of amendments. The Commonwealth Parliament of Australia has a Main Committee that has the powers of the House, but which effectively sits separately from the House in order to deal with non-controversial legislation. I think that is an innovation that has been considered here, but not yet adopted. It seems, at least to date, that we have been able to deal with these sorts of things through this procedure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI do just want to do something that I thought the Associate Minister of Justice might have done, and that is briefly mention each of the pieces of legislation that are to be amended by this Statutes Amendment Bill (No 3). I think it is as well for there to be some record in Hansard of what the House actually proposes to do today. There are 16 statutes that this bill would amend\u2014first of all, the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act 2009. Section 38 of that legislation, which is the Act that implements our international obligations to ensure that in our banking and financial system there are safeguards around money laundering and the use of bank deposits and other financial instruments for the purposes of terrorism, would be amended to make it clear that both the customer and his or her representative, if any, must have their identity verified to set up an unnamed account or other facility. The regulation-making power in the Act would be amended so that the ability to declare an entity or class of entities to be a designated business group for the purpose of the Act does not require specifying the composition of the business group. It is a good example of why this sort of thing can be dealt with in this type of legislation. It is entirely non-controversial and sensible and giving better effect to the legislation itself, given some 3 years of experience with the legislation working in practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe next Act that the bill would amend is the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families Act 1989. There is a protective provision proposed to be inserted where custody orders that are currently made under that Act expire automatically when a child reaches the age of 17. This provision would extend that out to the age of 18 by way of an automatic expiry. So there is a protection effectively conferred for those who are aged 17 and subject to such an order. Again, that was clearly seen as something non-controversial and sensible by way of better making that legislation work. It is interesting to note that the Government Administration Committee clarified, when it dealt with the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 3), that such orders would expire at the age of 18 unless they are specified to expire earlier. So there was that clarification by the committee, and I believe that is going to be approved by the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe next piece of legislation to be amended is the Dumping and Countervailing Duties Act 1988. There is a provision for the refund of excess anti-dumping duty paid. That is obviously a sensible provision. If somebody is subject to a penalty under the anti-dumping legislation, which again is legislation that implements our international obligations in the trade context, then there obviously ought to be a power to refund an improperly levied duty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThen the Electricity Industry Act 2010 will be clarified to make it clear that it is on the recommendation of the Minister of Consumer Affairs that the Governor-General makes regulations under section 111 of the Act. That relates to who can be exempted by way of class from the dispute resolution system that is set up by that Act. It was not clear in the original legislation which particular Minister, whether it was the Minister of Energy and Resources or somebody else, ought to be advising the Governor-General about regulations creating exemptions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E Then the Gas Act 1992 would be amended so that the definitions of \u201Cdistribution system\u201D and \u201Cgas distributor\u201D would be changed so as to take account of bypass distribution networks, so that a person that is not only a distributor but also a retailer that provides line function services to itself, effectively, by that dual role that they play in the industry and then sells those services as part of a bundled service supplied to a consumer is actually brought within the definition of a \u201Cgas distributor\u201D. Again, a sensible and technical amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe bill also provides for the enforcement of the dispute resolution scheme to continue. Even if a person formerly subject to the scheme leaves it, they none the less can be subject to the dispute resolution scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe Heavy Engineering Research Levy Act 1978 will be amended to increase the maximum prescribed rates of research levy, from $5 to $20 per tonne of goods, and from 5c per kilogram to 10c per kilogram of goods. That is a very sensible amendment and it will have the effect of increasing funding for research and development, which is something that, certainly, members on this side of the House would like to see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe Lawyers and Conveyancers Act 2006\u2014at the moment, there is only one Deputy Legal Complaints Review Officer in the complaints mechanism scheme that is set up by that Act. This amendment would allow for a second Deputy Legal Complaints Review Officer to be appointed. Obviously, that will assist to speed up the resolution of complaints under the scheme by allowing the burden and workload to be shared. Again, an amendment to be supported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThen there are some local government amendments\u2014one, two, three, four in total. They, in turn, amend list tax areas for groups of territorial authorities to clarify that the Auckland Council is the distribution authority for its area. In relation to Christchurch, they are removing the antiquated reference to the Banks Peninsula district local authority, which no longer exists. There are some consequential amendments overlooked in other legislation, and then there is some legislation relating to the Auckland Council specifically. It provides that the Auckland Council cannot dispose of certain property before the close of 30 July 2012 with a current rating valuation of a quarter of a million dollars or more. The current rating valuation is replaced with the term \u201Ccurrent market value\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe Real Estate Agents Act will be amended so that those licensees who have had their licences cancelled voluntarily in the 5 years preceding the time of the application are not prohibited from being re-licensed. The Residential Tenancies Act would be amended to, basically, provide that every registrar and deputy registrar of the District Court is also a registrar of the tribunal, and there are some consequential amendments relating to that provision. The Social Security Act 1964 will have the definition of \u201Cwork-test married rate\u201D amended. Finally, the amendment to the Veterinarians Act 2005 will extend the expiry date of existing practising certificates for applicants for new practising certificates until the application for the new certificate is determined. They are sensible amendments, and we have the Government\u2019s Supplementary Order Papers, one dividing the bill and the other amending the Geographic Board legislation, which we have heard much about, the Ngati Porou Claims Settlement Act, which is outdated now because of other legislation that has passed, and ditto the Te Roroa Claims Settlement Act 2008. For the reasons I have outlined, which are that these are technical, sensible amendments, they will have the support of the Labour Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4b3aab05dbd4ceab984a59a0787d4d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4b3aab05dbd4ceab984a59a0787d4d3\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I was not expecting to be taking this call at this particular minute. I thought that the Government might take a call after my colleague Charles Chauvel\u2019s extensive traversing through the detail of the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 3). I am certainly very pleased that he has managed to get through such a significant number of different provisions that are addressed in the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWhile he was speaking, though, I did actually have cause to reflect on the particular change that is proposed to the spelling of a word in the Dog Control Act 1996. I actually found it quite extraordinary, because I could not quite understand why we were omitting the word \u201Cthar\u201D\u2014and I presume it is pronounced as \u201Cthar\u201D\u2014and substituting the word \u201Ctahr\u201D. When I looked it up on the internet I discovered that, in fact, \u201Cthar\u201D is an alternative spelling for \u201Ctahr\u201D, so it may, in fact, be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022392e320b09f84a82a18eb2f1501b120f\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: Yep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e5191c6176343b5a8a3a759399ba6dd\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, according to Wikipedia it is, so that may not be a very good source, but in both instances the reference to the word is, indeed, to a Himalayan mountain goat. I think the Deputy Speaker, who is in the chair, would certainly agree with that. And given that that conclusion was drawn from the same reference that accepted the alternative spelling, then that may in fact be correct. I am obviously going to have to do some further research on the matter\u2014not that it is going to be of much import when this legislation is passed, because we will be instating the correct spelling, the accepted spelling. In fact this is the spelling that is accepted on the Department of Conservation website. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWhat I also discovered in my analysis while my colleague was going through such a detailed analysis of the other parts\u2014I really wanted to pick a part that he had not dealt with\u2014was that, in fact, there is an entire tahr control plan dating back to 1993. I suspect that the Deputy Speaker himself has some knowledge of this, given where this is in relation to. Then I discovered, in fact, that the tahr creates significant threats to sensitive alpine and sub-alpine plant communities, and that there is a tahr eradication programme that actually involves inviting people to come and shoot tahr in our country, so it is also part of our visitor programme as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c00236cbe9444854bbb6e2ff341a7398\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: In Whanganui it\u2019s pronounced \u201Ctaarr\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227e1a583452b4b8394e4b770c2c315cf\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chauvel. But what I have not got to the bottom of yet is why it is in the Dog Control Act 1996. So that is a little mystery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI hope that my sharing of the controversy surrounding the correct spelling of the word \u201Ctahr\u201D has, in fact, added some levity to an otherwise potentially dull piece of legislation. But the reason, seriously, that I wanted to take a call is really to back up what my colleague said in relation to the importance of Statutes Amendment bills. The reason I mention this is that legislation can take up an awfully long time in the House, particularly when we are coming back to amend things that are relatively minor technical amendments that people agree to. The Statutes Amendment Bill (No 3) as a process is an omnibus bill that is accepted as an omnibus bill because it has the unanimous support of Parliament. I think that is its strength, and it enables us to actually deal with technical amendments that are relatively minor and things that are not controversial but may be significant. But if they are not controversial and there is, essentially, that unanimity about the need to deal with things, then the Statutes Amendment Bill process is a great opportunity for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EStatutes Amendment bills are not the only exception to the omnibus bill rule, which does not allow for omnibus bills unless there is that common theme. We have a couple of others as well. I have championed what was then known as the Regulatory Improvement Bill. That became the Regulatory Reform (Repeals) Bill. Again, that is picking up a commonality of theme. They might be somewhat more controversial and they may not be the technical amendments that can be dealt with in Statutes Amendment bills, but, in fact, they are all elements of improving the regulatory framework where there is substantial agreement around the House in order to deal with these matters. Having been a Minister of Commerce I can tell the House how frustrating it is to get ministerial colleagues to agree to prioritise something in their work programme when it is a minor amendment but one that might have such a major impact for improving the regulatory framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E I will just use one example of something that could not fit within the scope of a Statutes Amendment Bill but could fit within the scope of a Regulatory Improvement Bill, if it had been around at the time. That was an amendment to the sale of liquor legislation that would have allowed for people operating in an environment where they were not dealing with the public. I am thinking of one of our very large wineries up in the Hawke\u2019s Bay and the owner of that winery. Because of, I think, an oversight of Parliament in 1989 when the Wine Makers Act was disestablished by the Sale of Liquor Act 1989, a relatively open regulatory framework, a relatively simple regulatory framework, for winemakers was suddenly overtaken by the very detailed provisions of the Sale of Liquor Act, which then had only four licences. I think that that was problematic in terms of imposing a set of regulatory requirements on top of a regime that was never intended for that purpose. A very well-established winemaker, who was not serving wine to the public and who was not selling it at the cellar door, ended up in a regime where he had to have a liquor licence and a manager\u2019s certificate. Even the district licensing authority said \u201CWhy are we seeing you in front of us for authorisation for this purpose?\u201D. That is when we realised that there was a significant problem in the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EGetting that on to the agenda of the justice ministry was hugely challenging, because we were just about to enter into some regulatory reform around the sale of liquor. This is going back to 2007. At the end of 2007, or really at the beginning of 2008, I was given the role of Associate Minister of Justice with responsibility for sale of liquor legislation, and the priorities of the ministry were changed. The point I am making is that it is hugely challenging to meet the requirements of Parliament to bring matters to the House as a Minister when you are competing against all of the other urgent attentions that can exist. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ESo I just really want to endorse the process of the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 3) that we are debating this morning, but also say that there does need to be room for flexibility around omnibus bills. I think that it is possibly time for Parliament to revisit this issue again. The reason I say that is that the original prohibition on omnibus bills covering multiple Acts dates back to the 1980s when it was a process that was abused. A former Prime Minister of this country, Sir Geoffrey Palmer, wrote a book called Unbridled Power, and part of the unbridled power was actually in relation to the fact that the omnibus bill technique was used to cover for massive changes that were never communicated to the public, such as the Social Security Amendment Bill that contained massive benefit cuts and all sorts of other things, or a finance bill, a finance measure, that would in fact cover many, many pieces of legislation. So I am a great supporter of omnibus bills. I do think they need to be constrained so they are not abused, but I think that the Statutes Amendment Bill process is one that has really stood the test of time. I am very pleased that this bill is going to be completing all of its stages today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022604c49f3b03d48ef85da6709e436b598\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022604c49f3b03d48ef85da6709e436b598\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great pleasure to rise to take a short call on the second reading of the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 3). Statutes Amendment bills have been a feature of the New Zealand system for many, many years. As previous speakers have said, the bills are legislative vehicles for minor technical and non-controversial amendments to existing statutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThis bill amends 16 Acts administered by eight different departments. The Government Administration Committee received and considered four submissions from interested groups and individuals. The interesting thing among all of the 16 Acts was the issue of the Residential Tenancies Act of 1986. The current law is that each office of the Tenancy Tribunal has a registrar who is the registrar of the nearest District Court or an employee of the Ministry of Justice designated by the chief executive. This bill now provides that every registrar and deputy registrar of the District Court is also a registrar of the tribunal. Apart from that, looking at the issue of the public, the current law is that application must be made to the \u201Cappropriate\u201D office of the tribunal, but this bill makes the change so that application can be made at any office of the tribunal, making it easier for the public to make their applications. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAnother change is the increase in the number of members on the Real Estate Agents Disciplinary Tribunal from four to five, in addition to the chair, to allow more hearings and improve the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EWe need to keep laws up to date and we need to keep the law user-friendly, and this bill does that. I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5f58d1345594afdbb6adb1930e11e58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5f58d1345594afdbb6adb1930e11e58\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, with reference to the comments of Chester Borrows concerning getting the \u201Cf\u201D out of Wanganui, or not, as the case may be, there is certainly a need for flexibility with regard to the adoption of place names and their spelling. I remember that a long time ago\u2014well, actually, not all that long ago\u2014when I was a student we had a lecturer from the UK who, during a number of lectures, was required to refer to the names of a number of towns in New Zealand with M\u0101ori names. When he got to Wanganui he pronounced it as \u201CWanger-newie\u201D, which resulted in howls of laughter and derision from the students present. But he persisted with his very individual pronunciations of New Zealand place names, and in the end we all just accepted that and got on with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThat shows that we do need flexibility in this country as to how we name places officially and how they are pronounced. In fact, there is often more than one name, or more than one version of a name, for a place in this country, and I am aware that on the West Coast there are places with, indeed, several names commonly used. I believe that that arises from the fact that some places were actually named after local pubs, of which there were often more than one in the location. Of course, they were also often the founding establishment of the place the name applied to, so that shows, again, that we do need flexibility. As far as I am concerned, I do not mind whether there are several official names for one place, or several official versions of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First supports the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 3), and I do not wish to debate any of the matters of substance in it, or, indeed, to go through the bill part by part. Most of these provisions are pretty common-sense stuff. I note, for example, that in the amendment to the Electoral Act 1993, clause 58 amends section 127A, to allow a party secretary submitting a list of candidates for election to list seats to pay the required deposit by direct credit, and clause 59 makes a similar amendment to section 146F, to allow a party secretary lodging a bulk nomination schedule of constituency candidates to pay the required deposit by direct credit. This is pretty common-sense stuff; the sort of thing that you would have expected would already be possible. Indeed, I am aware that the Justice and Electoral Committee is looking at a number of minor issues just like that at the present time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ESo that is the sort of thing that we are looking at here, and they are mostly of a technical nature or of a minor nature, and are appropriate for an omnibus bill of this kind. So, for all those reasons, New Zealand First will vote for the bill, and also for the two Supplementary Order Papers that have been proposed by Mr Borrows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u00222c89c34eb0b6479b950420626966e98e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c89c34eb0b6479b950420626966e98e\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Statutes Amendment bills are annual bills that oil the process of legislation and provide oil for a legislative vehicle for minor technical and non-controversial amendments to existing statutes. They can be debated only with support across the House, and it is pertinent at this stage to recognise the huge amount of cooperation that goes on behind the scenes in Parliament\u2014a fact that is often overlooked if the public concentrates on the theatre of question time in the House. There is a lot of cooperation that goes on in the House, and this bill, the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 3), is one of those shining examples. Bills such as this allow Parliament to keep the law up to date, accurate, and user-friendly. We have already heard in great detail from Mr Charles Chauvel on the individual matters canvassed by this particular amendment bill. I do not propose to peruse the matter further. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a7603e00c52d445985edb2c992774226\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2a6cc71fbb9484cb0bdf923fb138a83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2a6cc71fbb9484cb0bdf923fb138a83\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: What I intend doing here is to put the question on each part, but, if there is objection, then the question on that part will not be put. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c58b514b5593454a8641e86768aad66d\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d1d0ed524e7049b3ae12ada6f0410aa7\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223722a8144ac14efcb2ac4f9a397918cb\u0022\u003EPart 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002280560ac545eb48a3adee7e52bd7a21a4\u0022\u003EPart 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d0268c5e0a124753986303570f337b32\u0022\u003EPart 5 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225108661a31fd42c7be5b5061343485c8\u0022\u003EPart 6 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f5e648f4790c4382b8c19be90c2717ec\u0022\u003EPart 7 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221562c7cecc034d1ab15b06a7a7f78394\u0022\u003EPart 8 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a2816264f7e54802b9e558b49a8bddab\u0022\u003EPart 9 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220ca948b30a7b47f985622fae6e9d2f17\u0022\u003EPart 10  Local Government Act 2002\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000074\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 165 in the name of the Hon Chester Borrows to clause 56 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000075\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000076\u0022\u003EPart 10 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022746d58d0946d493b80a1ec5059181616\u0022\u003EPart 11 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002298bf5eb3b3f94c0d8f40e7c8fcd92d7d\u0022\u003EPart 12  Local Government (Auckland Transitional Provisions) Act 2010\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000079\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 165 in the name of the Hon Chester Borrows to clause 61 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000080\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000081\u0022\u003EPart 12 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022341beb253c8d4e88bb5ed834ef78dc96\u0022\u003ENew Part 12A  New Zealand Geographic Board (Ng\u0101 Pou Taunaha o Aotearoa) Act 2008\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000083\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 165 in the name of the Hon Chester Borrows to insert new Part 12A be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000084\u0022\u003ENew Part 12A agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b5f582d7bfd546dc9033e2fabe886fa6\u0022\u003ENew Part 12B  Ngati Porou Claims Settlement Act 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000086\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 165 in the name of the Hon Chester Borrows to insert new Part 12B be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000087\u0022\u003ENew Part 12B agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb2ac8a9becd437ab97ac7d729092e8d\u0022\u003EPart 13 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220a33cf5fc4784426b552522960141aaf\u0022\u003EPart 14 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a19d3c75dd7347628703171d2f110b0c\u0022\u003EPart 15 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b596a4ccedd3424486d5c9f6e1d850e3\u0022\u003ENew Part 15A  Te Roroa Claims Settlement Act 2008\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000092\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 165 in the name of the Hon Chester Borrows to insert new Part 15A be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000093\u0022\u003ENew Part 15A agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002282e07f0d6a894dee929cc8ef12025d80\u0022\u003EPart 16 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002286d99a0d379641d09197bb777e6bf793\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000096\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000097\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000098\u0022\u003EThe Committee divided the bill into the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Amendment Bill, the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families Amendment Bill, the Dog Control Amendment Bill, the Dumping and Countervailing Duties Amendment Bill, the Electricity Industry Amendment Bill, the Gas Amendment Bill, the Heavy Engineering Research Levy Amendment Bill, the Lawyers and Conveyancers Amendment Bill (No 2), the Local Government Act 1974 Amendment Bill, the Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Bill (No 2), the Local Government (Auckland Council) Amendment Bill, the Local Government (Auckland Transitional Provisions) Amendment Bill, the New Zealand Geographical Board (Ng\u0101 Pou Taunaha o Aotearoa) Amendment Bill (No 2), the Ngati Porou Claims Settlement Amendment Bill, the Real Estate Agents Amendment Bill, the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill, the Social Security Amendment Bill (No 2), the Te Roroa Claims Settlement Amendment Bill, and the Veterinarians Amendment Bill, pursuant to Supplementary Order Paper 166.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000099\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment presently.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b66fa64eec7743aab033e38e529804d2\u0022\u003EArms (Military Style Semi-automatic Firearms and Import Controls) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229e6a573b1c3c425fbf613073e1ea3486\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224caf109a0c8447dd83cd8d44bf8b0787\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to principal Act\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000103\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 164 in the name of the Hon Anne Tolley to Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002204e8aaa5f48f4e0caf47c57f20127f43\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 12; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 7; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00229e1c1b487cf640b99593c28b71e501f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e1c1b487cf640b99593c28b71e501f5\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 36 in the name of Richard Prosser to clause 4 is out of order, as it is inconsistent with an earlier decision of the Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 36 in the name of Richard Prosser to clause 11 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228b33a6d24c3a4665ad2012e38ec4a62f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 7\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 7.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 111\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 12; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c2fd9719f5804e048da79e7a2a18a8ac\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 111\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 12; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; Mana 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 7\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 7.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002270036b2ed82844fea5e16fe53e2ff98a\u0022\u003EPart 2  Consequential amendments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000107\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 36 in the name of Richard Prosser to clause 14A be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002241ff315abbb34fc1acc8ca1a0c534449\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 7\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 7.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 111\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 12; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000108\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002264d52d7856a54f858dc8b18d1b8d6594\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000110\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000111\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000112\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000113\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment presently.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221cc33f2f23ed451f8c43ee1485314d0a\u0022\u003ECultural Property (Protection in Armed Conflict) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a5326d36d2864dabacc1eb8fdec046b9\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002277e9b26b5dbc4ad0a4b8f6de75fef279\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002279c34a93bdd1430fbcd3eb2ab64067e9\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002246148fdd34d84b76b253d3c02bf80892\u0022\u003EPart 3  Cultural property removed from occupied territory\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000119\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Chris Finlayson to the proposed amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 163 in his name to clause 14 be agreed to:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000120\u0022\u003Ein paragraph (b) of the definition of issuing officer, after \u201CRegistrar\u201D, insert \u201Cwho is for the time being authorised to act as an issuing officer under section 108 of the Search and Surveillance Act 2012\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000121\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000122\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments as amended set out on Supplementary Order Paper 163 in the name of the Hon Christopher Finlayson to Part 3 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000123\u0022\u003EAmendments as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000124\u0022\u003EPart 3 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225bdb5257528e4d898544d7f2007f1da4\u0022\u003EPart 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022054796754f67469d9515939990bf8056\u0022\u003EPart 5  Miscellaneous\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000127\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 163 in the name of the Hon Christopher Finlayson to clause 44AA be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000128\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000129\u0022\u003EPart 5 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002234fb50d70b4f437abecba390770c185e\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002297c39cda9fe041a6a90f3af75d290078\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223804ce2fe9054166a3e72c06b2c9e418\u0022\u003ESchedule 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225016564709d848f4bebe974cb2908036\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000134\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000135\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000136\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment presently.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002278b53477c0d64c28bde3ca1e67f70035\u0022\u003ELegislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f7de32c7474a423aa3fb083d33c19f9a\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000139\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 15 November.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u00227c03cefef17446a48ef0f9c7d33bd480\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c03cefef17446a48ef0f9c7d33bd480\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the Committee to revisit the schedule of the Legislation Bill for the purpose of adopting amendments to the item relating to the Local Government Act 2002 and the item relating to the Local Government (Auckland Council) Act 2009.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4742803373b4f9399aeb1055ea49b70\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022412df996d85c4636884571155b2ccad5\u0022\u003ESchedule (reconsidered)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000143\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendments in the name of the Hon Christopher Finlayson to the schedule be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000144\u0022\u003Ereplace section 259I in the item relating to new section 27A in the item relating to the Local Government Act 2002 with:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000145\u0022\u003E259I\t\tApplication of Legislation Act 2012 to standards incorporated by reference\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000146\u0022\u003E(1)\tPart 2 of the Legislation Act 2012 does not apply to\u2014\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000147\u0022\u003E(a)\tfinancial reporting standards incorporated by reference in regulations made under section 259(1)(dc); or\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000148\u0022\u003E(b)\tan amendment to, or replacement of, those standards.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000149\u0022\u003E(2)\tSubpart 1 of Part 3 of the Legislation Act 2012 applies to regulations made under section 259(1)(dc) that incorporate financial reporting standards by reference.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000150\u0022\u003E(3)\tHowever, nothing in section 40 of the Legislation Act 2012 requires material that is incorporated by reference in regulations made under section 259(1)(dc) to be presented to the House of Representatives.;\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000151\u0022\u003Ereplace the item relating to clause 6(4) of schedule 7 in the item relating to the Local Government Act 2002 with:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000152\u0022\u003E(7)\tA determination by the Remuneration Authority under this clause is a legislative instrument and a disallowable instrument for the purposes of the Legislation Act 2012 and must be presented to the House of Representatives under section 40 of that Act.; and\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000153\u0022\u003Edelete the item relating to the Local Government (Auckland Council) Act 2009.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000154\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000155\u0022\u003ESchedule as further amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022195ffeb25332467ba6fe26667ec9f9bc\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2 (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000157\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000158\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 127 in the name of the Hon Christopher Finlayson to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000159\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000160\u0022\u003EClause 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000161\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported presently.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000162\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000163\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 3) with amendment, and that the Committee had divided it into 19 bills, the Arms (Military Style Semi-automatic Firearms and Import Controls) Amendment Bill with amendment, the Cultural Property (Protection in Armed Conflict) Bill with amendment, and the Legislation Bill with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000164\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022147c0225309f4f29b21b8e60204de8a3\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223347bbe6fbb24a53b37e1b1df72fa497\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4393f4e33b8430b971dbb7c65ee2af0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4393f4e33b8430b971dbb7c65ee2af0\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Amendment Bill, the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families Amendment Bill, the Dog Control Amendment Bill, the Dumping and Countervailing Duties Amendment Bill, the Electricity Industry Amendment Bill, the Gas Amendment Bill, the Heavy Engineering Research Levy Amendment Bill, the Lawyers and Conveyancers Amendment Bill (No 2), the Local Government Act 1974 Amendment Bill, the Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Bill (No 2), the Local Government (Auckland Council) Amendment Bill, the Local Government (Auckland Transitional Provisions) Amendment Bill, the New Zealand Geographical Board (Ng\u0101 Pou Taunaha o Aotearoa) Amendment Bill (No 2), the Ngati Porou Claims Settlement Amendment Bill, the Real Estate Agents Amendment Bill, the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill, the Social Security Amendment Bill (No 2), the Te Roroa Claims Settlement Amendment Bill, and the Veterinarians Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EBills read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228d6983c20a8d4a1a960633625a7b3e17\u0022\u003EArms (Military Style Semi-automatic Firearms and Import Controls) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b49e9ebcbe6b48b3915b9f20a6e7b5a4\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022412ce8bab0cc448591abda0b48ba5045\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022412ce8bab0cc448591abda0b48ba5045\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Arms (Military Style Semi-automatic Firearms and Import Controls) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. This bill amends the Arms Act 1983 to clarify the definition of military-style semi-automatic firearms, known as MSSAs, and to place controls on the importation of airguns that look like real pistols, military-style semi-automatic firearms, or restricted weapons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe bill does not radically change the status quo in respect of what constitutes a military-style semi-automatic firearm. A change in the definition was needed as a result of a 2010 High Court decision in Lincoln v New Zealand Police. This created a degree of uncertainty around the definition of military-style semi-automatic firearms and hence the police\u2019s ability to determine which firearms would come under that definition. The bill returns the situation to a classification regime very similar to that administered between 1992 and 2009, but with added clarity. That regime was generally understood and accepted by the firearms community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EA military-style semi-automatic firearm will now be defined in a positive, straightforward manner as a semi-automatic firearm that has one or more specified features, rather than, as with the present definition in the Arms Act, in the negative as a semi-automatic firearm that is not in sporting configuration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe bill introduces a right of appeal to the District Court for a person who is affected by a determination that a particular airgun is a military-style semi-automatic firearm. Controls on the importation of airguns that look like real pistols, military-style semi-automatic firearms, or restricted weapons are needed because these airguns are being used for criminal purposes. These airguns are now classified as restricted airguns. Police estimate that there is at least one incident a week where an airgun that looks like a real pistol, a restricted weapon, or a military-style semi-automatic firearm has been presented, requiring an armed police response. Sometimes these involve a call-out of the armed offenders squad. This is a drain on police resources and creates risks for staff and the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe import controls in the bill for restricted airguns are the same import permit controls that apply to real pistols, military-style semi-automatic firearms, or restricted weapons. A permit will be granted only if the Commissioner of Police is satisfied that there are special reasons why the airgun should be imported. Permits would be issued to allow for the legitimate importation of airguns for sporting and collection purposes, and the like. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe bill includes an amendment to eliminate the unnecessary regulation of fully automatic airguns used for airsoft and paintball sports. Fully automatic airguns used for these sports are currently declared as restricted weapons by the Arms (Restricted Weapons and Specially Dangerous Airguns) Order 1984. This does not accurately reflect their reduced ability to cause harm, and so the bill removes them from being classified as restricted weapons. They will still, however, be subject to the import controls applying to restricted airguns where they look like pistols, military-style semi-automatic firearms, or firearms capable of full automatic fire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe bill was amended following its consideration by the Law and Order Committee. I once again would like to thank the Law and Order Committee for its careful consideration of the bill and for the refinements it made to the bill. The amended bill addresses the main concerns that the committee heard from submitters. In particular, the bill now includes an additional layer of parliamentary scrutiny of regulations that declare particular makes and models of firearms, or firearms of a stated description, to be military-style semi-automatic firearms or declare particular features of firearms to be features of a military-style semi-automatic firearm. Any regulations made by Order in Council under new section 74A(b) to (d) of the principal Act are to be confirmed by statute within a specified period. Such confirmation, which will usually be through a Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill, will provide Parliament with an opportunity to consider the policy behind the regulations. If Parliament does not confirm these regulations, they will be revoked. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, the Arms (Military Style Semi-automatic Firearms and Import Controls) Amendment Bill improves the Arms Act 1983 by addressing two issues that need to be resolved with some urgency. Clarifying the definition of military-style semi-automatic firearms is in the interest of gun owners as it removes uncertainties around which of their firearms will have additional requirements for their possession. At the same time it improves the ability of the Arms Act to apply controls on the possession of military-style semi-automatic firearms. Placing controls on the importation of airguns that can be mistaken for real pistols, military-style semi-automatic firearms, or restricted weapons will limit their availability for criminal use and improve public safety. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022aae6935b0df4470286d48df9ea79747b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aae6935b0df4470286d48df9ea79747b\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to speak to the third reading of the Arms (Military Style Semi-automatic Firearms and Import Controls) Amendment Bill. Yesterday in the general debate the Minister of Police took an opportunity to disagree with me on a number of things that were police portfolio related, and I respect her right to do that in this House. I look forward to continuing to disagree with her on a number of issues around police-related matters over the next couple of years. But I think one thing that we will agree on is the safety of our front-line police officers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EOne issue in this piece of legislation that we are debating today will, I think, take some serious steps towards ensuring the safety of our front-line police officers, and that is the provision that will restrict the importation of airguns that have the appearance of the real thing. As the Minister of Police said in her contribution to the debate earlier on, there is at least one incident a week where an imitation of a military-style semi-automatic or a pistol is presented and police officers are forced to escalate that incident. Usually it means the calling out of our armed offenders squad\u2014serious resources\u2014and, of course, they have to take those call-outs very seriously because they do not know whether the firearm that has been presented is the real thing and could cause harm to members of the public, the people who are brandishing the weapon, or, of course, the police officers involved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EOur police officers hold an occupation\u2014and it is not just a job\u2014that very few in our country have. They go to work every day fully knowing that they could put themselves in serious danger and that\u2014as was the case for, I think, at least 81 police officers here in New Zealand\u2014they could pay the ultimate price. In terms of restricting the importation of these lookalike weapons, these weapons that look like military-style weapons and pistols, I think that this legislation is very good in terms of protecting our front-line officers. In that respect we will have one point in this piece of legislation that the Minister and I can agree on. As I say, 81 officers in New Zealand have paid the ultimate price serving their communities, and on 1 October this year we did commemorate those fallen officers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThis bill defines what a military-style semi-automatic firearm is. I am not a firearm enthusiast just by nature of not being around them when I was growing up. Essentially, the definition of a military-style semi-automatic is a firearm that has a magazine, ejects a cartridge and then loads another cartridge into the chamber, has 10 or 15 cartridges in that magazine, and has a pistol grip\u2014that is now a military-style semi-automatic rifle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI am sure that Richard Prosser, being a gun enthusiast, will have something more to say, in much greater detail, and he will elucidate to the rest of the House exactly what this means. For those at home that is the new definition of what a military-style semi-automatic is under the legislation. As the Minister said, it does clarify for the many gun enthusiasts out there in the community what a military-style semi-automatic is now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EWe also did want to point to the regulation-making power in the legislation that we are debating today, because there was some concern at the Law and Order Committee\u2014and this went through the Law and Order Committee that I sat on in a previous Parliament\u2014from those who submitted on the bill that the regulation-making power gave police too much power in defining what these military-style semi-automatics are. I think it is good that the bill has been amended to make sure that there is a time frame in which subordinate legislation has to be passed through this House, for making any new regulations that come under actual legislation within this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThis legislation was of great interest at the select committee. I understand there were over 250 submissions, and 71 people were heard in person. I guess when you think there are nearly a quarter of a million people holding firearms licences out there, it does not really surprise us as to the level of interest that this bill has created. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAnother aspect of this bill that we think is a positive thing is that if there is a dispute around the classification of a firearm\u2014if someone has brought something in and they think it passes the test, and the police force, or those who are looking at the firearm, disagree\u2014that firearm owner can go to the District Court and launch an appeal to question whether or not that classification of that firearm is valid. I think that is a positive move given the serious concerns that the firearm owners had during the select committee process. I actually did sit on one select committee meeting on this bill in the last Parliament and it was full of gun enthusiasts who were very, very concerned about that point indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E I am not a firearm owner, but, as I said before, there are nearly a quarter of a million licensed firearm owners in New Zealand, so we know that the responsible ownership of firearms is very, very important to many Kiwis. I think that through the select committee process some changes have been made to, I hope, allay the fears of a lot of the gun enthusiasts out there who thought that they may get caught up in this and thought that their sporting use of firearms, or their hunting with firearms, may be affected by this. But I do hope that through the select committee process we have had the ability to allay the fears of those people who were worried about what this Parliament was doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThere was one bone of contention from the Labour Party perspective at the select committee, and that was around the establishment of an independent reference group. It was something that we offered up as a bit of a safeguard against some of the concerns the firearms owners had at the time. But we understand that the view of the committee was that it was out of the scope of the bill and that the police are actually doing some of their own work to establish an arms advisory group. One thing that we mentioned in the second reading debate, I believe, was that we are hoping to keep a close eye on whether the police follow through on that work, because we do think there needs to be some expert advice given to the Minister and also to the police around some of the changes to the technology. It is rapidly changing, especially when you are looking at introducing regulations swiftly around the changes in technology around the police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI just wanted to finish by saying that the aspect of the bill around the restriction on the importation of lookalike weapons is, I think, very, very important to our front-line police officers and also to resourcing. As the Minister said, having one incident a week where a lookalike weapon has been presented and the police are escalating that into a serious issue is one too many, and we definitely support the part of the bill that restricts the importation of those lookalike weapons. So we do support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00222ad1c086b6734f83a6e388835a1da93c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ad1c086b6734f83a6e388835a1da93c\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I get the feeling that Labour\u2019s police spokesman might have stolen my debate notes on this bill, the Arms (Military Style Semi-automatic Firearms and Import Controls) Amendment Bill, because I am in the rare, but not unheard of, situation of agreeing almost word for word with the contribution that Mr Faafoi has made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022107cf2c11da04f5481cc54e250f7845d\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Including what he said about Anne Tolley?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022792def117f324ea58d243c8206a4db17\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I will come on to that, actually. I am about to do that, as well, because one thing that the Minister of Police and Mr Faafoi both said and referred to was the fact that this is a significant drain on police resources. We all want to know that these bills, when they are passed into law, are going to make a meaningful difference. I think it would be appropriate for some members to have thought whether or not spending House time on replica pistols was actually best use, but when one looks at the amount of police resources for the average of one incident a week where these weapons are involved, that is a not inconsiderable drain on police resources, and I am sure the police and the armed offenders squad would rather be doing other things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut I think we need to add to that the impact of these incidents on innocent members of the public, whether they are store owners, bank officers, or other bystanders, when these replica ordnance are presented. They are most terrifying in their appearance. They are becoming increasingly similar and familiar to the real thing, and certainly those on the other end of the barrel would have no idea whether the ordnance was loaded or not, and I think we do need to acknowledge that that would be a terrifying experience for anyone who was on the end of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI also think there is real merit in the nimble nature of the regulation-making power that is being brought in by this bill, and I acknowledge that. Generally the House is a little sceptical of giving the executive, by Order in Council, these sorts of regulation-making powers, but we do have the safety net, as both the Minister and Mr Faafoi have articulated, of then requiring those regulations to be built into primary legislation, lest they lapse over time. That will certainly give the House and the select committee the opportunity to scrutinise\u2014and confirm, I hope\u2014that that was a sensible regulation to have made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ESo with those few comments\u2014there is no point in replicating the excellent contributions by both Minister Tolley and Mr Faafoi\u2014I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u002266dc542845d245ce868d437fe75ed626\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266dc542845d245ce868d437fe75ed626\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to take a call on this particular bill, the Arms (Military Style Semi-automatic Firearms and Import Controls) Amendment Bill, and I just note that this bill makes clear the definition of what a military-style semi-automatic firearm is. I also note that it will allow regulations to be made that will declare what is a military-style semi-automatic firearm and what its distinctive features are. I also note that it provides for appeal rights for those firearms owners to the District Court, particularly firearms owners who may disagree with the definition given to their firearm\u2014whether it is classified as a military-style semi-automatic firearm or not\u2014and it places restrictions on the importation of airguns that may look like real pistols or military-style semi-automatic firearms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI think it would be disturbing for most New Zealanders when they hear of the background to this. As a result of a court case in the High Court in Palmerston North in 2010, the police had difficulty in trying to determine with certainty which firearms would be classified as military-style semi-automatic firearms. Although these definitions in the legislation are important from a legal perspective, especially to ensure that those using illegal firearms or those holding a firearm without a permit are appropriately prosecuted, I think most New Zealanders may not appreciate that. I say that because I think most New Zealanders would be surprised by the numbers that the Minister of Police has articulated about the high levels of illegal firearms or the high levels of military-style semi-automatic firearms. After all, most New Zealanders would say that a gun is a gun, and the sole purpose of a gun, for most of us who are not enthusiasts, is that it releases a projectile at high speed and it will cause harm. It will kill, it will maim, and those bullets from that gun do not discriminate. It will kill, maim, or snuff out a life whether it is an animal or a human being. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI have not had the privilege of sitting on the select committee, so I did not get the opportunity to hear the submissions from the public, and I wish I had because it appears that the committee had some very difficult issues to try to cope with. There were 257 submissions and 71 people made personal submissions, and I think those submissions are quite valuable, as those of us who do not have the experience of firearms look to those who do have the expertise in this particular field. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI have got some personal experiences that I would like to share with the House. I do not know how many people have been shot at. I do not know whether you have sat next to a person who has accidentally shot themselves in the arm. Certainly, closer to home, in 2009 we had a young man aged 17 years old who was accidentally shot, by mistake. So those points really show how I personally feel about the issue of firearms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ESome years ago I visited some relatives in the United States. During that visit I happened to be in a car that was driving one way, and there was another car coming towards us. As we stopped, the other car would not move, so the driver of our car went to confront the car and they backed up and pulled out what appeared to be an automatic pistol and starting shooting at the car I was in. That was scary. It did not hurt anybody but certainly my aunt, sitting in the back, was scared stiff. I was oblivious. I did not know what had just happened but there were certainly three bullet holes in the car we were sitting in. In that same trip I had a relative who was so gung-ho about showing off that he had purchased a pistol. I was not paying attention but sitting next to me as he pushed the clip in he accidentally released the safety latch and shot himself clean in the arm. It did not hit any bones, but again that was quite scary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI suppose the matter that weighs heavily on our community is when a young man of 17 years was shot and killed, leaving a partner and a young child behind. Although that was, admittedly, a mistake by the police, it does bring home the fact that these firearms, semi-automatic or not, cause harm to our society. They kill. No one should be in a situation where they are either harmed or die from a gun, whether they are police or a member of the public. I think it is right that the Labour Party supports this bill, because I think it is right that the police have the powers to be able to prosecute anyone who brings firearms to this country illegally or who has a gun without a permit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EAlthough it is outside the scope of this bill, my colleague Kris Faafoi said that Labour did seek to have an independent arms advisory group. I think the police ought to look into that. Given the increased powers we give to the police, and given the need for the police themselves to arm, I think there would be some serious concerns throughout this country about where we are heading as a country, particularly in terms of the amount of power that police have with regard to firearms but also in terms of what we do about illegal firearms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI think it is disturbing for people that we allow for the sake of sport semi-automatic firearms. This is not my area, but I am not sure how safe it is and whether those who receive permits to hold such firearms do get the training and are in a situation where they know how to handle a firearm. So I think there is room for the Minister and for the police to consider that independent arms advisory group and perhaps look at extending the scope of it by extending it beyond just classifying what the features of a certain firearm are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI note that the Minister said in her second reading speech that the bill does not seek to \u201Cradically alter the status quo\u201D, and that may be so for military-style semi-automatic firearms, but I think there has been radical alteration to the foundation of our country as a result of some of the other legislation that this Government has put up. We have moved from an economy that once upon a time valued progressive taxation where everyone was paying their fair share based on their ability to pay. Now we are in an economy where those on the highest incomes pay less and those on low incomes pay more. As a result of this Government\u2019s austerity measures throughout, the public sector has been under constant attack.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283596bbce963468da78b4a55e4b30eb2\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226798a6200c66410b908dff4cd65cb953\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: The point I am making is that it is about symbolism. We have talked about this bill not radically altering the status quo, but I am making a comparison to what is happening to our economy. I think there has been radical change in that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe Minister also said that the bill provides for the meaning of the term \u201Cpistol grip\u201D to be spelt out clearly in the regulation with the assistance of illustration. I would say that there have been numerous illustrations of incompetency by this Government in its 4-year term. There has been debate as to whether a pistol grip is a feature of a military-style semi-automatic firearm or not, and this is similar to the debate we currently have as to whether this Government has a firm grip on this economy or not. I would say that this Government has preferred not to have a grip on this economy and that is why we are in the mess we are in. Only today we hear that this year we will mark the 50,000th New Zealander leaving our shores for Australia. That is another example of this Government not having a firm grip on where this country is heading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u002291cbc8fcdd78406eb17f0d3c8187abaa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291cbc8fcdd78406eb17f0d3c8187abaa\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to speak to this bill, the Arms (Military Style Semi-automatic Firearms and Import Controls) Amendment Bill, and to confirm the Greens\u2019 support for this legislation, as we have supported a raft of gun control legislation over quite a number of years. It is worth recalling in this context that this bill is evolutionary. Placing controls on military-style weapons actually dates from relatively recently. Of course, there was the tragedy in Aramoana in 1990, when 13 people lost their lives and several others were wounded through the actions of a deranged individual who was in possession of a number of military-style weapons. At that time, in 1990, the police had no knowledge of the existence or the ownership of those weapons. There was no legislative framework or requirement that the police ought to know, and clearly that was an entirely unsatisfactory situation. We have moved on considerably from that point, and that is a good thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EMore recent case law has been referred to, of course. In 2009, I believe, it was discovered that a member of the public appealed against the classification of a weapon he owned as being a military-style weapon, and he won that case in the High Court. Clearly, it highlighted the fact that there was a lack of clarity in the law. The police position, relying on the legislation, was weakened by that. So this amendment is intended to plug that gap, just to create some clarity around the legislation. That is a useful and positive thing for a Parliament to be doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI must say I was very pleased\u2014I was genuinely pleased\u2014yesterday in the Law and Order Committee when the Commissioner of Police, Peter Marshall, unprovoked, just on his own initiative, expressed his very, very strong belief that our police ought not to be routinely armed. He expressed a strong preference. He does not want to see our police routinely carrying weapons on their hip, and we are 100 percent in support of the commissioner. Given that support, I think our responsibility in the House is to provide the strongest possible legislative framework to put good controls around weapons, around guns, so that the commissioner\u2019s aspiration and our aspirations to not see our police routinely armed can be perpetuated, can be fulfilled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EGuns, of course, have a legitimate use. They are routinely used by farmers to destroy injured animals, they are used for pest control, and of course there is a very large recreational lobby. I think the figure is now something close to 250,000 New Zealanders who hold gun licences, and that is as it should be. Given that, and the prevalence of these, as I say, it is important we get the legislative framework right not only to enable legitimate use but also to put the strongest possible constraints on the illegitimate or malicious use of these weapons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe think it appropriate that airguns are captured in this legislation. They do bear a resemblance to the military-style weapons. They could be used for malicious purposes, clearly, but even to protect. Anyone who is foolish enough to own such a thing and wave it about publicly would very quickly find themselves on the wrong end of an armed offenders squad call-out. Those call-outs always carry an element of risk, and obviously we want to avoid that wherever possible. Airguns also are quite powerful weapons in their own right in this day and age, and just getting sufficient control on those is an important thing to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIt is inevitable that there will be ongoing objections to the legislation. People will seek to find loopholes or will legitimately believe that a situation arises where they are\u2014as has happened in the case of the gentleman Richard Lincoln. He filed a legitimate claim against the legislation. That will continue, no doubt, so again it is appropriate that this legislation does allow for recourse to a District Court, to an appeal, if any challenge to the legislation does arise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EFurther to that, I would like to support Mr Faafoi and William Sio in their appeal to the Minister of Police to advance this idea of having a reference group, an advisory group. I was not on the Law and Order Committee at the time this bill went through the select committee process, but reading back it is clear that there was a conversation that perhaps there ought to be a statutory body. The outcome of that decision making was that that was not appropriate, but there is a strong call for some sort of an advisory group, and I think that is actually a very good idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe police clearly have a lot of knowledge and in-house, if you like, expertise about weaponry. But I think people in the community who are legitimate gun owners and gun users also would be reassured if there was an open standing committee, some sort of a conduit between the public and what I will call the gun lobby\u2014and I do not mean that in a derogatory sense\u2014interested parties around gun use. I think it would be helpful if there was a conduit in the form of something like an advisory group or a standing reference committee, so that those people could have a forum to have dialogue with the police and other interested parties. I think that could help to avoid situations where there is recourse to the courts, to legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe know that taking an appeal, or indeed going to the High Court, is an expensive business, both for the claimant and for the police, in the instance that they defend it, so I would encourage the Minister to look very hard at establishing some sort of a reference group, an advisory group, that would enable interested parties to have that ongoing dialogue. Hopefully that would resolve any issues and give parties an opportunity to talk these things through, without recourse to the courts necessarily. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI do not need to say any more than that. Again, I simply say that we believe this is good legislation. We are happy to support it. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022139e6ac01736419ab9388c47f675ecf8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022139e6ac01736419ab9388c47f675ecf8\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great pleasure to rise in support of the third reading of the Arms (Military Style Semi-automatic Firearms and Import Controls) Amendment Bill. I feel a bit like my senior whip, Michael Woodhouse, who said that Mr Faafoi stole his thunder. I feel like Mr Clendon has actually stolen my thunder by talking about the Aramoana incident. At the time I was a journalist and I did actually report on that case. I felt strongly about what had happened there and how the people concerned with the classification of military-style semi-automatic weapons were very, very concerned about how certain people could get hold of these kinds of automatic weapons without them having any knowledge of where they got them or when they got them, and about having a licence regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the bill, obviously, is to amend the Arms Act to amend the definition of military-style semi-automatic firearms and place restrictions on the importation of airguns that look like restricted weapons. I know that Mr Clendon and other speakers have talked about the case of Lincoln v New Zealand Police, where the classification was disputed and the police actually lost the case, hence we are trying to define what a military-style semi-automatic weapon is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EBut I wanted to talk about the replica firearms issue. In the past, on different bills, I have spoken about being a victim of a home invasion. I had a pistol placed to my forehead. I had no idea whether it was real or it was a replica. Standing there, you have to think that it was real. When you are a victim you want to know that you are safe. At the time when that pistol was placed to my head I did not feel safe. We need to make sure that these replica firearms are not imported into this country, and that there are certain restrictions placed on them to make sure that people actually feel safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E Police estimate that there is one incident a week when a member of the public presents an airgun that looks like a real pistol, military-style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon, requiring an armed police response. That is too many\u2014too many responses by the police, and often it is a waste of time. I have heard of a situation where an armed robber held up a replica firearm in order to hold up a TAB. He ended up getting shot and killed. They eventually found out that it was actually a replica and was not a real gun, but the people were actually threatened, and everybody believed that it was real, including the police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EWe need clarification on this, to make sure that people\u2014the public, the police, and even the offenders themselves\u2014are safe, so that they are not shot and killed. This is a good bill, making sure that there are clear restrictions on military-style semi-automatic firearms, and it will keep police and everyone safe. It is a good bill. I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022 data-id=\u0022326c8fb8be8643c7a9f5ef9eb42b894d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022326c8fb8be8643c7a9f5ef9eb42b894d\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to rise on behalf of New Zealand First to take a call on this third reading of the Arms (Military Style Semi-automatic Firearms and Import Controls) Amendment Bill, but I find, as is too often the case with many bills brought by this Government, that I am also a little disappointed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThis bill has come about because of the case of Lincoln v New Zealand Police. The essence of this case is that the police sought to reclassify a particular semi-automatic rifle, the Heckler and Koch SL8, held lawfully by an A category firearms licence owner as a rifle of sporting configuration, as being a military-style semi-automatic firearm, which requires an E category licence. The owner took the police to court, wherein the learned judge decreed that the police had no authority to make such a reclassification. The classification issue centred on the stock of the rifle, which incorporates a thumbhole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThe present Act, the Arms Act, specifies that military-style semi-automatics must incorporate a free-standing military-pattern pistol grip, which a thumbhole is not. The difference between a pistol grip and a thumbhole is as plain as daylight, and, frankly, anybody who cannot tell the difference between them should not be making decisions or laws about such matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EMr Lincoln won his case, and the police were sorely aggrieved about that. They went to the then Minister of Police seeking redress, and this bill is the result. The bill addresses the issue of changing rifle configurations due to the evolution of design and manufacturing techniques, which the police contend they must be able to respond to, and it makes some other changes to the importation of firearms, airguns, and their various parts, and also some changes to the records that licensed dealers must keep. These we generally agree with. We are pleased to see that airsoft and paintball guns have been removed from the restricted list, but disappointed that realistic replicas will still be available to unlicensed 18-year-olds. My Supplementary Order Paper 36 would have addressed this. Various members have made mention of the fact that we have one incident a week of people presenting replica firearms to the police. This bill, without the Supplementary Order Paper in place, does not address the fact that 18 and 19-year-olds can go out and buy a realistic replica airgun. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThe single most significant element of the bill concerns regulation-making powers that allow the Governor-General by Order in Council to declare makes, models, descriptions, and parts of semi-automatic firearms to be military-style for the purposes of the Act, with the potential that some firearms that were previously classified as being sporting configuration may subsequently be reclassified as military-style. The Minister of Police and other speakers have claimed that the bill makes the definition of a military-style semi-automatic more clear. It does not. It makes it less so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThe E category licence that is required for ownership of military-style semi-automatics is more difficult to obtain than an A category licence. It is more expensive, and it demands a higher level of security. E category gun safes are more expensive than A category safes, and security inspections are more frequent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWhen the changes are brought in, some firearms owners will be put in the position of owning firearms for which they no longer hold the appropriate licence. Their options then will be limited to two choices. They will either upgrade their licence, or dispose of the firearms in question. Some will upgrade. I will do so myself, because I can afford to, and because I make the presumption that I will pass the character test. Those who are forced, by circumstances, to dispose of their reclassified firearms will be faced with the reality that only E category licence holders will be able to buy them, so they will be selling into a restricted market, with limited demand. Their only other option will be to sell them for cash to any buyer who is not asking questions. The consequence of this is that an indeterminate number of very powerful semi-automatic weapons will find their way into the hands of criminals who do not currently possess them. These firearms will be used in the commission of crime, and innocent people will be killed and maimed by them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThe reality is that 79 percent of firearms deaths in New Zealand are suicides, and about half of the rest are hunting accidents. Of all death and injury incidents with firearms, fully half involve .22 rifles, 20 percent involve shotguns, and another 15 percent involve pistols, despite this latter class already being the most heavily restricted type of firearm in this country. The remaining 15 percent includes every other type of firearm. Military-style semi-automatic rifles owned legally by E category licence holders do not feature in the crime statistics in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThis bill has come about because the police are seeking to gain control over an aspect of firearms law that they do not currently control, and to address a problem that does not exist. The direct consequence of that will be that New Zealand will become a less safe place than it currently is, criminals will gain access to firearms that they do not currently possess, and innocent people will die as a result. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI have to question the motivation of a certain few individuals within the New Zealand Police who are seeking to have this change to our law brought about. New Zealand\u2019s firearms law is widely regarded internationally as being the best in the world, and this change will diminish it. It will detract from it, and it will make less good law, with which more people will feel disinclined to comply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWhen the Australian Government instigated its buy-back scheme for certain types of firearms a few years back, following the Port Arthur massacre, more long guns disappeared underground than ever went into the Government\u2019s incinerators\u2014and I mean \u201Cunderground\u201D in a literal sense as much as a criminal one. Thousands upon thousands of rifles and shotguns went into the ground inside lengths of PVC pipe, there to await a change of Government and a return to sensible law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EBad laws are ignored by good people. It is human nature and an inherent part of the Anglo-Saxon character to ignore bad laws. Firearms licence holders in this country are a careful, responsible tribe. Today in New Zealand 1.1 million firearms owned legally by firearms licence holders killed no one at all. So those owners do not take kindly to the Government treating them unfairly or breaking its word in the social contract with them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWhen a previous Government reneged on its contract to make firearms licences last a lifetime and replaced those licences with 10-year licences, a very large number of previously law-abiding firearms owners and users felt disenfranchised and disgruntled, to the point that they opted for civil disobedience in the form of not bothering to renew their licences when the new agreement-breaking 10-year period expired. They became lawbreakers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThis is bad law, and people will ignore it. They will not meekly sell their prized and valuable firearms at a loss to reluctant dealers or carpetbagging collectors. They will bury them in the ground instead, or sell them to gang members for cash. Buried in the ground, these firearms will be less secure than locked in a safe. In the hands of criminals they pose a danger to innocent citizens that they do not currently pose. My Supplementary Order Paper would have addressed this very real probability in a very tangible manner, but this Government has chosen to ignore it. That is a great shame. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI look across the Chamber and I see that there are a number of honourable members who have served in the blue uniform, who have given service to the nation as police officers, and I wonder whether they are happy to have blood on their hands as a result of giving blind party-whip support to this fatally flawed bill. Mr Mitchell, Mr Sabin, and Mr Borrows are all former police officers who do know about firearms, who do know about criminal behaviour, and who do know, I would suggest, that some of the consequences I foretell here will indeed come to pass. Any one of them could stop this bill, or the Minister could withdraw it. I implore the Government to do just that. Withdraw this bill, take it away, ruminate on it over the summer adjournment, consider what I have said, and listen to the experts it does have within its own caucus\u2014the former police officers and the Deputy Speaker, whose knowledge of firearms probably exceeds the combined total of most of the rest of the House. This bill could easily be pushed on to the back-burner for another few months, because there is not any pressing issue that demands a solution by way of its passing into law that cannot already be addressed by regulation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThis bill, as I said earlier, seeks to solve a problem that does not exist. This bill does not address the functionality of firearms, as I alluded to earlier in this debate; rather, it concerns appearance. Functionality has long since been addressed through the regulations on magazine capacity in 1992. The matters of appearance that this bill addresses relate to a certain appearance, giving the appearance of menace. I ask the question: if a tree falls in a forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? By the same token, if a firearm is out in the bush and there is no one there to see it, can it still appear menacing? Because that is the reality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThese firearms are not used by criminals, and they are not used in the commission of crime. There is no purpose identified or served in reclassifying them, and thereby removing them from legitimate owners and users on the basis of some misplaced perception of a menacing appearance. The police do not have the power to make that distinction under current law, which is working well, as it has done these past 20 years. It is widely regarded as being the best in the world. That power rests here in this House, and I would contend that altering the law in this way will make the country a less safe place and will result in innocent citizens being killed by criminals. That will happen. Call it the law of unintended consequences, if you wish, but that is what will happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003ELastly, the bill as proposed, with the Minister\u2019s amendments, which were passed during the Committee stage, against my advice, contains yet another technical fault, which I identified but very deliberately did not mention during the Committee stage. In their fruitless attempts to find an alternative wording to my own Supplementary Order Paper, Supplementary Order Paper 36, in terms of describing a .22 calibre, the Minister\u2019s advisers have succeeded in eliminating yet another calibre, this being the .17 calibre, from the bill\u2019s ambit. I now invite the Government members to pass this bill into law with this technical fault in place, knowing that an entire class of firearm has been left out of it. They have missed the target. They have shot themselves in the foot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI ask the Government members opposite to withdraw this bill and to bring a successor to it back to the select committee next year, where it can be examined by people who do know what they are talking about. New Zealand First does not support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00222a07ea862a2946cf84f02006712e0644\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a07ea862a2946cf84f02006712e0644\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E The problem is not with those who legitimately and lawfully use these types of firearms; the problem we have is with those who do not. I want to say to the last speaker, Richard Prosser, whom I do have a lot of respect for\u2014and, incidentally, I enjoyed your speech on my gang bill, the Prohibition of Gang Insignia in Government Premises Bill, so very much more so than this speech, but it is good to know that in many areas of law and order we have much in common. What I did want to say to Mr Prosser was that we accept that we must have rules around firearms. I think nobody would say we should go back and get rid of licences and let there be a free-for-all. For legitimate users of firearms I think there is wide acceptance that there is a need to balance public safety and restrictions on controls around these weapons\u2014so that, where others would misuse them, we can give guarantees and certainty, through our police, to the public\u2014against unreasonable impositions on legitimate users and the rules around that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI know that to the Law and Order Committee so very many people\u2014hunters, firearms users, and enthusiasts\u2014came who had concerns with this legislation, the Arms (Military Style Semi-automatic Firearms and Import Controls) Amendment Bill. But as a hunter and a firearm licence holder myself, I do say to the Minister of Police that I think she has the balance about right. It is never easy when you need to change the settings, from a policy point of view. But I do believe that in this instance we have been able to balance the need for public safety with the concern that is raised\u2014legitimate concern\u2014by our police around the misuse of firearms, and therefore the need for additional regulation upon legitimate firearms licence holders and people who own these guns, and do so lawfully within the bound of the law, so that we can have some common sense out there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EMr Prosser said that there are lots of bad laws that good people do not adhere to. Actually, I would challenge that. There are a lot of bad laws in this country. There was 9 years of lawmaking before we came to Government, and a hell of a lot of that was quite bad, but the vast majority of good people adhere to those laws. Indeed, whether you agree with a law or not, if this Parliament has passed it, even if others would say it is a bad law, if you are a responsible citizen, you must adhere to that law and you must be law abiding. If you disagree with it, you have the ability to come to this Parliament and keep making the case. The challenge we have today is that there are so many good laws that are ignored by bad people, and that is where we have the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ETo my knowledge, I am not sure that there are many cases where these weapons that we are talking about have been used to commit a crime by the lawfully licensed owner. There will be some, I am sure, but very, very few. So our challenge is not around those who are adhering to the law at the moment and who are doing everything that this Parliament says they must; it is about those who have complete disregard for the law and put the lives of our police officers, our ambulance officers, and the general public at risk. As a hunter I say that although I might, if I was to own one of these weapons, have to go and upgrade some of my security and so on, actually I take my responsibility seriously. I do not believe that I have an absolute right to hold a firearms licence. I accept the rules that this Parliament has put in place. And if, therefore, that means there is an additional cost to me because of the type of recreation I choose, if that means that the public is safer, then I will spend that little bit of extra money. I will go and get that licence upgraded as I need to, so that I can be assured and more secure in the knowledge that when I do not have that weapon in my control, nobody else can easily take it and misuse it, and that as a result of my inaction there could be a horrible loss of life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI will finish just by saying that I am a great advocate for all those who legitimately and lawfully own firearms in this country, and I will continue to come to this Parliament to fight for their rights. But they must realise that if they want to have the ability to continue with their recreational pursuits, they have a greater obligation to other New Zealanders than most other people have to make sure that they continue to act lawfully and that their firearms are secure. Therefore, I say again to the Minister that I think she has found a very good balance in the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EActually, there was one thing I wanted to recognise\u2014a change that was asked for by representatives of the New Zealand firearms community, so that they could have an ongoing say in relation to the use of firearms and restrictions and the way they are being controlled. The select committee actually recognised this and said it was a good idea, and I know that the police have already started to actively explore the establishment of an arms advisory forum. That is the place to continue that debate, not to take the legislation away and think about it a bit more deeply over Christmas. We should bring in the legitimate users, sit them down with the police, and find a way that we can continue this debate, to make sure that we do not put unfair restraint upon what they are trying to do, but continue to allow the police to target the scumbags who are out there causing grief for everybody, harming so many New Zealanders, and therefore getting in the way of those who have legitimate reasons to use these guns. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u00224cf41240a28f49a2adb40052d3382929\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224cf41240a28f49a2adb40052d3382929\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak on the Arms (Military Style Semi-automatic Firearms and Import Controls) Amendment Bill. By amending the definition of \u201Cmilitary style semi-automatic firearm\u201D and by placing a restriction on the importation of airguns that look like restricted weapons, this bill will make New Zealanders feel safer. The new definition adds clarity to the classification process. With regard to the proposed controls, they are necessary because at the moment there are virtually no import controls on replica firearms. This is a concern, because replica firearms are frequently being used for criminal offending. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ESo National is delivering on its promise to take action on violent crime. We have the lowest crime rate in 30 years. National has a comprehensive plan to build a safer New Zealand, and this bill is yet another example. I recommend the bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002281a49799dcc54d2789c1ebe05443dc93\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Arms (Military Style Semi-automatic Firearms and Import Controls) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 12; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 7; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229c181a812d4843d5a61c36c68c3c46c1\u0022\u003ECultural Property (Protection in Armed Conflict) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002229ad42d8560a45c7ac1782f68cdb1402\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u00223e36bfc6c6dc4816b32ac682370ed51d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e36bfc6c6dc4816b32ac682370ed51d\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Cultural Property (Protection in Armed Conflict) Bill be now read a third time. This bill relates to the Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict, which is commonly called the 1954 Hague convention. New Zealand ratified the convention on 24 July 2008, but, of course, legislation is required before New Zealand can accede to the convention and its two protocols. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe Hague convention was a specific response to the massive destruction of cultural property during the Second World War. It recognises that mutual commitment between nations is necessary if we are to spare the world\u2019s cultural heritage from the consequences of war. The bill is being advanced now to demonstrate this country\u2019s ongoing commitment to the system of international law, particularly as it relates to armed conflict. Acceding to the protocols will reinforce the current operational practice and excellent reputation of our armed service personnel overseas. It will also enhance this country\u2019s participation in the system of international instruments designed to protect and enhance cultural activity. I will say just one or two things about each of the parts of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EFirst, Part 1. For the purposes of the bill, \u201Ccultural property\u201D refers both to movable and immovable property of great importance to the cultural heritage of every people, as well as to the buildings used to house the properties. So in a New Zealand context, it would likely include our major metropolitan museums, art galleries, and libraries; nationally important archives and scientific collections; and registers of births, deaths, and marriages, land information, citizenship, and protected objects. Category I historic places and registered w\u0101hi tapu are also likely to be included, along with the list of national historic landmarks currently being considered by the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EClause 5 sets out how to determine whether a territory is occupied, following on from the 1907 Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. Clause 5(c) provides that \u201CThe fact that occupation of a territory meets with no armed resistance does not prevent the territory from being considered occupied.\u201D Clarifying whether a territory is occupied is going to be very important in the context of offences created in Parts 2 and 3 of the bill. Many of the offences have to take place in the context of either armed conflict or an occupation, or, in the case of the dealing offences, the property must have been removed during armed conflict. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EPart 2 criminalises serious violations of the second protocol and sets out appropriate penalties for the offences. Part 3 addresses obligations required under the first protocol to prohibit unlawful trade in cultural property from warring States. Part 4 prevents unauthorised use of the convention emblem used to identify cultural property, and outlines the penalties for so doing. This provision was not required by the convention or its protocols, but is none the less considered to be a sensible provision to include in the bill. Part 5 provides various necessary supporting provisions and addresses the role of the Attorney-General in the prosecution of offences, the liability of directors and officers of bodies corporate, and the certification of facts by the Minister of Foreign Affairs in the making of regulations to prescribe the necessary forms required to implement the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ESo I am very pleased to see this legislation conclude its passage through the House. I thank all colleagues for their support. In supporting the bill they are reinforcing this country\u2019s commitment to other international agreements to prevent the illegal export or import of important cultural artefacts, such as the Unesco Convention on the Means of Prohibiting and Preventing the Illicit Import, Export and Transfer of Ownership of Cultural Property. The history of the Geneva Convention demonstrates how these agreements can over time result in greater awareness and commitment to improved standards of conduct. In implementing the provisions of the bill, this country will be meeting its obligations and playing its part in the mutual recognition and protection of important cultural heritage, both here and abroad. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u002294e04572eb1c455eab87cd387b05367e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294e04572eb1c455eab87cd387b05367e\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E In the Forum in Rome there is an archway that pulled me up short when I saw it, because in bas-relief on that archway is depicted the triumphant return of Titus from the siege of Jerusalem. The soldiers are carrying under the flag of the Roman Republic, the SPQR emblem, both the Ark of the Covenant and the menorah, the seven-branched lamp stand that was used in the ancient tabernacle of the desert and in the Temple in Jerusalem. I was really shocked. I knew that Titus had been and laid waste to Jerusalem once upon a time. I had learnt that somewhere. But to bring back artefacts of such cultural and religious significance\u2014the offence that I felt at seeing that repeated and preserved for posterity in that marble archway in the Forum was deeply shocking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThat is an example of why this convention is important. In the Cultural Property (Protection in Armed Conflict) Bill, this Parliament will be giving New Zealand the imprimatur to fulfil its obligations that are required for accession to the first and second protocols to the 1954 Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EOf course, the Romans were not the only ones to have perpetrated such cultural offences over history, but it was a remarkable offence to take two of the most important religious artefacts, remove them from the Temple of Jerusalem, and install them in Rome in the Forum. That was in AD 70. There are other examples across the world, and across time as well. The Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage has, rightly, referred in his introductory speech to artefacts that were taken, removed, stolen, expropriated during the course of World War II, which caused great offence. This is something that conquerors do to the conquered, and have done for a long time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EAnother example that New Zealanders may be familiar with if they have ever travelled abroad are, of course, the bronze horses in the Basilica di San Marco, which came from Constantinople. They have gone backwards and forwards between Istanbul and Venice ever since, but remain now in Venice, not without controversy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EMore recently, however\u2014and some of the things that make this poignant for New Zealand\u2014has been the removal of M\u0101ori artefacts from New Zealand to parts of Europe under the rubric of ethnography, of souvenir taking, of some memorabilia from what were, essentially, conquests in the 19th century in our own history. Some of these artefacts have turned up in museums\u2014for example, very significant ethnography museums in Germany. Most recently, of course, we have seen the repatriation of some items that were taken. They have been returned by the French, because they are of huge significance to M\u0101ori and to New Zealand\u2019s history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThis convention, then, and the Cultural Property (Protection in Armed Conflict) Bill will allow the prosecution of people who engage in this kind of theft in situations of war. This is a bill that arose out of the Labour Government. It has taken some time to get to the House. Again, as with other bills that began in the Labour administration, one wonders why it has taken quite so long to get here. But it is here now, and Labour will be supporting it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe bill, of course, criminalises actions such as stealing or destroying important cultural property in times of war, and it will also prohibit the trade in cultural property removed from occupied territory. It provides a way of prosecuting people who undertake these crimes. In fact, the bill comes complete with a couple of dear little flow charts that demonstrate just how the procedures might be pursued in the course of prosecuting anybody. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe interesting thing about the bill is that it looks to enable New Zealand to prosecute people, whether a crime is being committed inside or outside New Zealand. That is quite complicated in terms of international law. This bill, I hope, will address that issue and allow that to be effected in a way that protects cultural property from theft. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EIn the passage of this bill our Parliament will reinforce New Zealand\u2019s commitment to the international measures that protect cultural activity and cultural property. This is important as far as our UN obligations go, and our international obligations more generally, but it will also reinforce our participation in the Unesco family as a champion of the protection of cultural property. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ENot only has great offence been caused to numerous countries over the millennia of human existence but also, most particularly, the offence created within our own country because of the expropriation and theft of cultural icons and taonga is something that this bill will address. The Labour Party is fully in support of it, given that it originated with us, and it is something that we feel New Zealand should commit to. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2fdf0a005da441f986e982444a705fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2fdf0a005da441f986e982444a705fd\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to make a brief contribution to this Cultural Property (Protection in Armed Conflict) Bill. There is no doubt that the problems around this have occurred through generation after generation over the march of history and so-called civilisation. The taking of precious cultural property from one country to another during times of war has caused huge hurt. This bill, ratifying our wish to bind ourselves to the Hague convention, is again another very important step. The bill does ensure that New Zealand honours its international obligations to protect cultural property in situations of armed conflict. Undoubtedly, the National Government values the need to protect culturally significant artefacts throughout the world, particularly in areas of armed conflict, and I think it is highly relevant when we consider what is going on in the Middle East right now. Just a couple of hours ago some of us had a briefing from the representative of Israel, who pointed out just how delicate the situation is, not just in the West Bank but more so in Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, the Gaza, Syria, and Jordan, and that it could easily expand out into Turkey\u2014all areas that have hugely important cultural treasures, making this bill very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThis bill shows the work we are doing to preserve and support culture internationally as well as domestically, and it is important to point out that the bill comes with a variety of offences. For instance, it is an offence to do the following to a protected piece of cultural property, or to encourage another person to do one of these acts: make cultural property the subject of attack, use cultural property in military action, cause extensive destruction of cultural property, or steal or vandalise cultural property. This is a very important piece of legislation, which, I would imagine, all parties welcome into our Parliament and welcome its progress. Thanks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u002258e8473f7e074c7e9c9595efc82a9815\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258e8473f7e074c7e9c9595efc82a9815\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great pleasure to speak in favour of the Cultural Property (Protection in Armed Conflict) Bill. This bill requires of New Zealand obligations to adhere to the Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict, and it also offers us protection as well in the event, as unlikely as it probably seems to most of us at the moment, that New Zealand should be the stage for armed conflict in the future. So this legislation enables us to ensure that our representatives overseas\u2014and I must say that the New Zealand Defence Force has a superb reputation around the world for the way it conducts itself on overseas deployments\u2014in terms of Defence Force personnel or any other New Zealand representatives or New Zealanders, whether they are representing the country formally or not, are held accountable for their actions regarding cultural property. It also allows us to prosecute anybody who does any damage to our own cultural assets here in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe convention allows for the use of an emblem that is, essentially, made up of blue and white triangles, which can be affixed to cultural property and used to signify buildings, in particular, that are of cultural significance. Of course, the bill makes very clear what types of buildings and assets can have that emblem affixed to them and how that emblem can be used. The emblem can be used to identify only those types of assets and, of course, it would be an offence to try to pass off military assets as a cultural asset in some sort of effort to perhaps persuade an invading force that those assets were not for military use. The use of the distinctive emblem in cases other than the cases mentioned in the bill for cultural uses, and uses of the emblem that are outside of the scope of the bill, shall be forbidden, and the emblem is not to be placed on any immovable cultural property, unless at the same time there is displayed an authorisation duly dated and signed by the competent authority of the high contracting party. It is all very technical stuff that, essentially, says we can keep our cultural assets safe, or, at least, have a mechanism by which to hold people accountable, should that not happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIt is important that New Zealand plays its part in these types of international agreements. We have a good reputation around the world for leading the charge on this type of activity, and this bill ensures that our international reputation as a peaceful, stable, and internationally engaged nation is retained. For those reasons the Labour Party is very happy to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022 data-id=\u00229a34ba2b9ca94e7fabcf27f6459c031d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a34ba2b9ca94e7fabcf27f6459c031d\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. The Green Party is really happy to be supporting this Cultural Property (Protection in Armed Conflict) Bill. I have just read Keith Locke\u2019s second reading speech from 2008, which shows you how long ago it was that this bill was first brought into this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI do not see it as a minor piece of legislation. I think it is actually quite significant and plays an important part in the international body of jurisprudence around dealing with an issue that is by no means going away. It is a big international issue, it is an important issue, and this is a very, very good bill. Obviously, the ability to stop the theft and trade of the spoils of war is complicated, but at least we are starting with something coherent for our own country, and that is a very good thing. We are laying out clearly what it is that we can do to be part of the positive commitment to the Hague convention, which is also a very positive thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EInterestingly enough, in Keith Locke\u2019s speech he talks about the way in which what happens to the spoils of war is not something that happens at random, but is actually often part of a deliberate destruction of significant cultural property of people in order to have a huge effect on the national psyche. I think that is a really important point when we are considering the importance of this bill. If you look at the national psyche of Iraq or other countries in the Middle East and what has happened to much of their taonga, how significant that has been, and how those many artefacts have been hocked off around the world by people, it is important to criminalise this because of that effect\u2014not only the loss of those taonga to those nations but also the psychological effect of nations who have been subjected to war losing their taonga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI guess we are also keen to bring this point back home. I agree with the Hon Maryan Street\u2019s comments about moko m\u014Dkai, but also if you look at the history of this country, the spoils of war have been very much part of the history of this country, and in a way that we would no longer countenance. But it is good to remember that the spoils of war have included women, and the spoils of war have included taonga. All of those things have been used to destroy the psyche of nations and should be criminalised as well as the taking of life. It is not good enough to say that bad things happen in war, which is why I support this bill, because it is saying no, that we can be accountable, that we can track what goes on, and that we can prosecute people who are perpetuating these illegal and immoral acts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ETake, for example, the experience of Bell Block in Taranaki. The archaeologists there, when they carried out the extensive works in Taranaki, found that the original ancient marae in Bell Block had been destroyed by the British occupying forces as part of the spoils of war, if you like, by literally building their camp on top of the ancient p\u0101 site at Bell Block. That did huge damage to what could have been a fantastic taonga for the local people and also for the history of this country. Those things cannot happen so easily today, as we have Heritage New Zealand, but it is still interesting to consider the spoils of war in our own context when considering this bill, which has a strong international focus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EIf we consider the wharenui that is in Te Papa, Te Hau ki T\u016Branga, the Rongowhakaata wharenui was a spoil of war, and the settlement bill that came before this House not long ago was part of acknowledging that. It is very important for us in taking the moral high ground, as we should in this bill, to acknowledge that the spoils of war have had a huge psychic effect on tangata whenua of this country in our own history of colonisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ESo it is excellent that we move forward on all these fronts in terms of the idea that these iconic buildings, in some cases, taonga, and others are acknowledged as being central to the peace and well-being of nations, to their identity and psyche, and to the rule of law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is very pleased to be supporting this bill. We are very aware that there is a lot to be done internationally to make it happen and that it is very, very complex. We are aware that the problem affects many nations other than our own, but at least we are making a start in saying what we can do in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EWe are not limiting it just to soldiers. The flow chart that was referred to also covers, perhaps, mercenaries and, perhaps, people involved in war, and they can also be found to be criminals if they participate in this destruction. This destruction has affected many, many peoples all around the world including the Sri Lankan people\u2014the Tamils when they lost the Jaffna library, which was burnt in the 1980s. A library is more than just a building; it is a repository of culture. So this bill is very much acknowledging that culture is broad, culture is deep, and culture is people\u2019s identity, and if we steal it and destroy it as conquerors, then we need to be held to account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ESo it is going to be interesting to see how various military actions of the 21st century are viewed in terms of the spoils of war and in terms of how we are going to hold them to account. This bill is very timely. We need to follow up on our obligations. We have signed meaningful protocols and we need to make sure that we make this real. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI think a lot of work was done at the Government Administration Committee, which I was not part of, in 2008. Now, at last, we are coming to the point where we are saying we can sign it off. I do not think that anyone in this House would be in disagreement. It is not always clear whether we would be able to cover every theft that takes place in war, but I think it is clear that we will do our best. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is very interested in history, and in our own history and our own accountability, and also the issue of moko m\u014Dkai, which was raised, which is ongoing. I can think of a mountain, K\u012Bk\u012Btangiao in Tai Tokerau, where an Austrian so-called explorer\u2014his name was Andreas Reischek\u2014stole from urup\u0101 some taonga that are still in Europe. So there is still a lot of work to be done around this. I am not sure whether this bill applies directly to moko m\u014Dkai\u2014those initiatives are ongoing\u2014but there is a lot of unfinished business on the planet around this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EWe are pleased to support this bill because we believe it helps to finish that business, and it helps to provide legal instruments, hopefully, as a deterrent to some of the appalling destruction that has taken place in the name of the rights of the conqueror to take the spoils of war. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022730e068b9c6a43a9b689a162e5c18de0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022730e068b9c6a43a9b689a162e5c18de0\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to speak on this bill, the Cultural Property (Protection in Armed Conflict) Bill, because I think it does an extremely important thing for New Zealand. It helps us meet our international obligations. You see, the bill ensures that New Zealand honours these international obligations to protect cultural property in situations of armed conflict. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EEarlier in this debate, the Labour list MP Maryan Street made reference to the legislation first having been introduced to the Parliament under Labour\u2019s watch of the country, under its Government, which was for a 9-year period. She seemed quite concerned that not enough progress was made at that time. She also asked why progress had been made now, because she said that this is an important bill. Well, I can say to Miss Street that there is only one reason: it is because the Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage, the Hon Chris Finlayson, is probably the best Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage we have seen in this country for at least as long as I can remember, and probably as long as Maryan Street can remember, which is much longer than I could remember. I want to thank the Minister for his commitment. Miss Street ran out of time but she too, I sensed, wanted to praise Minister Finlayson for his hard work and being able to do something in this House that Miss Street was so concerned that Labour had not quite got to when it ran out of time. I want to thank Miss Street for those sentiments on behalf of the Minister. I know he has a lot of warmth for her. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ECan I say that National values the need to protect culturally significant artefacts throughout the world, particularly in areas of armed conflict. I want to also recognise the last speaker in this debate for the Greens, Catherine Delahunty, who did say that there were other areas that the Greens were concerned about. Well, this deals only with armed conflict, but some years ago before I returned to New Zealand with my young family I worked for a Greek member of the European Parliament who had been a Minister of Culture in Greece for many years, from the island of L\u00E9svos. There was not a day that went by that he did not raise the issue of the Elgin Marbles with me\u2014not formally, of course; I did not have the ability to do anything about this. In Greece in the 19th century the Elgin Marbles were removed and taken off to the United Kingdom, where so very many people have a chance to see them, but I do recognise that there are other issues around culture. I want to recognise that Catherine Delahunty said that the Greens were concerned about history\u2014some would say rewriting it, but I will not, because this is a very reasonable debate at the moment. Well, I did say it, but there you are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EBut what I would say is that it is good to see the House joining together on an issue like this. This shows that the work we are doing to preserve and support culture internationally as well as domestically is very well supported. I thank all parties of the House for joining with the National Government in doing something that Miss Street was so concerned that Labour was not able to do over 9 years. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022 data-id=\u0022acc998750245451591bfc33392e659b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acc998750245451591bfc33392e659b1\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to rise to take a quite excruciatingly short call in support of this Cultural Property (Protection in Armed Conflict) Bill. New Zealand First is completely in favour of this bill. There is a tradition, obviously, in warfare that to the victor belong the spoils, but we obviously, as a people and as a civilisation, have moved on from that. We are more civilised in our conduct of warfare now and we no longer attempt to carry out cultural genocide. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EMr Lees-Galloway made the point that the New Zealand Defence Force has an excellent record in terms of not stealing stuff from overseas. Indeed it does. Though it has to be said that if the Defence Force had better transport assets in terms of ships and aircraft, the boys would probably nick more things from overseas and bring them home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI just wish to say that I echo the sentiments of Dr Hutchison in saying that this is a fine bill, which all parties across the House support. I think the Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage has done a superb job in preparing it for its final passage through the House. The amendments are wonderful amendments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EIn closing I would like to say that this bill comes to us from the 48th Parliament. It has waited 4 years already. It does not need to be delayed any longer by convoluted oratory on the part of myself. I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a591a86b42be4b5fbfc9c7f194edb414\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a591a86b42be4b5fbfc9c7f194edb414\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Call it plunder. Call it \u201CTo the victor go the spoils.\u201D Call it theft. Call it stealing. Call it what you want, but it is theft. It is stealing. It is part of what makes up the word \u201Cgenocide\u201D. It is not only about killing people and wiping people from the face of the earth, it is actually wiping everything about that person off the face of the earth. That is what plunder is. \u201CTo the victor go the spoils.\u201D may have been the mantra of some people, but that is a poor excuse for theft. In the 15th century or in the 12th century, it is all the same. Can I say with hand on heart that that is part of the reason why our soldiers are up in Bamian. It is about re-educating people about trying to protect others\u2019 cultural artefacts. That is why our soldiers are up there\u2014not only to protect the living, but also to protect the cultural artefacts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThe Labour spokesperson the Hon Maryan Street talked about the reasons that were given for the theft of cultural artefacts. There were ethnological reasons, there was even some curiosity, and they were taken for scientific and medical research. I visited a university in Scotland and was told by a professor there that some of the artefacts were actually taken on request from the school of dentistry to see the difference between the Pacific teeth\u2014M\u0101ori teeth\u2014and European teeth. No medical research was ever done on these moko m\u014Dkai that we were there to retrieve. I must take my hat off to those institutions that these days have realised the folly of the past and actually have given these taonga back to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EBut this piece of legislation, the Cultural Property (Protection in Armed Conflict) Bill, also begs the question about\u2014and we find it really easy, all of us in the House, to get up and talk about what happens overseas\u2014what has happened and continues to happen here in our own country. My colleague from the Greens Catherine Delahunty has talked about Te Hau ki T\u016Branga. Not only was it stolen, but also it was chopped up so that it could fit into the Dominion Museum. Let us think about that. There is the Fraser Collection in the Auckland Museum. The harbour board man, Mr Fraser, back in the day just happened to find some artefacts\u2014in fact, he found a hell of a lot of artefacts\u2014and called them the Fraser Collection, without so much as a by-your-leave of the local people. It is a good bill, it is New Zealand coming into line with other countries of the world, but let us not forget those taonga, those artefacts, that belong to this country. We should make every effort to support, one, the return of those artefacts\u2014those cultural artefacts\u2014and, two, the protection of the artefacts that tell a story about New Zealand as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI hear what my colleague Mr McClay said about the Elgin Marbles. There were the bronze statues from Africa. You can walk this earth and tell stories of the plunder that has happened to the people who lose the war, and we must do everything in our power to support them in their time of need to get back the artefacts that tell the story about them. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u002237d2ec79a09b46f89ae1a623d8c723ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237d2ec79a09b46f89ae1a623d8c723ea\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E It is an honour and a privilege to be able to speak to this bill, the Cultural Property (Protection in Armed Conflict) Bill. I agree with the former speaker on his feet, Tau Henare\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e06b1d62b7cf42d7ad68bd930425f8b6\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: The future Speaker!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221506e8125a3a45eca97ae9b27d64b5e6\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014future Speaker, sorry\u2014that this is a good bill, and it certainly makes sure that New Zealand follows through with the international obligations that it has through signing up to the Hague convention of 1954. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ECan I just touch on what Richard Prosser said earlier on. I think there is a time and a place for humour in this House, but for him to try to bring up humour around this issue and the reputation of our armed forces probably was not the right moment. I just do want to join with the Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage, the Hon Chris Finlayson, and my colleague Iain Lees-Galloway in talking about the reputation of our armed forces around the globe in this area. They are absolutely outstanding and upstanding when they are out there doing duties on behalf of New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI am going to take only a very brief call. This bill sets out to achieve three simple things: to create a number of criminal offences in relation to cultural property, to prohibit trade in cultural property removed from occupied territory, and to prevent unauthorised use of the convention emblem. My colleague Iain Lees-Galloway did talk about the third point, the prevention of unauthorised use of the emblem. We think that is very important, because there could be moves by some people overseas to use this emblem in, I guess, a scurrilous way to protect things that should not be protected. So we think that bringing that provision within this bill is certainly something that we support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIn his opening remarks the Minister, Chris Finlayson, talked about this convention coming into force because of what happened in World War II, and there have been many stories from previous speakers about what has happened in the past and about some of the injustices that have happened in the past, but I just wanted to also support what Tau Henare said about our own history, with our own taonga, around this. New Zealand has had its conflicts. There are things of great cultural significance to our indigenous people that have been taken and have been traded overseas and, thankfully, some of them have come back to New Zealand. I think that it is absolutely fitting that we recognise the importance of those cultural items by making sure that we pass this legislation through today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EOf course, there are also conflicts happening at the moment, and Paul Hutchison spoke about the conflict in the Middle East. Unfortunately, we are still seeing sites of religious importance being targeted by some people, and we hope that through the fact that New Zealand is meeting its international obligations with other nations, we can stamp out that kind of behaviour, because you would hope that in the 60-ish years since the Second World War we would recognise that carrying out this kind of behaviour\u2014that, as many people have said, to the victors go the spoils. You would hope we have learnt from those instances where it is absolutely inappropriate to take some of those spoils, in a cultural sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIt is a privilege to be able to speak to this bill. As Mr Henare said, it is a good bill, and it absolutely makes sure that we follow through with our obligations under our ratifying of the Hague convention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022660b27c8c0804efcbc57221bcbdcd700\u0022\u003ELegislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ac9625363c9e48439a107c8a5ceb0038\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u002240c8215fdce948bdb2d3822e9a1fbd6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240c8215fdce948bdb2d3822e9a1fbd6e\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Legislation Bill be now read a third time. This is a very important piece of legislation. It is based on the Law Commission\u2019s recommendations in its 2008 report Presentation of New Zealand Statute Law and its 2009 report Review of the Statutes Drafting and Compilation Act 1920. The Law Commission noted in its foreword to the 2008 report that the New Zealand statute book is perhaps the most important part of our legal infrastructure, so it goes without saying that legislation must be accessible to all New Zealanders. It needs to be readily available, easy to navigate, clearly written, and kept up to date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe Legislation Bill aims to improve the presentation and accessibility of our statute law so that people will find more easily the law that applies to them. The bill updates and brings together the law on drafting, printing, publication, and disallowance all into one statute. Currently, to find the relevant rules, folk need to work their way through several statutes\u2014for example, the Statutes Drafting and Compilation Act 1920, the Acts and Regulations Publication Act 1989, and the Regulations (Disallowance) Act of 1989. The bill carries forward the existing regulations disallowance regime to allow Parliament to continue to oversee the use by the executive of delegated lawmaking powers. Very important is that it defines more clearly the nature of the subordinate legislation that will be the subject of the disallowance regime\u2014and I can see you are riveted, Mr Deputy Speaker. This has not always been clear, because some delegated legislation has been excluded from the disallowance regime on the basis of its form, rather than its effect. The bill defines a disallowable instrument to include an instrument that has significant legislative effect\u2014that is, it affects the rights and obligations of the public. This has the effect of broadening the scope of the Regulations Review Committee\u2019s jurisdiction and strengthens parliamentary scrutiny of regulations and regulation-making powers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe bill also does a number of other things. Some of our law that deals with the technical or operation aspects of a policy is set out in documents that are incorporated by reference into our delegated legislation. The material may have been developed by a specialist Government agency or by a private or an overseas organisation, and it may be impractical to include this technical, lengthy material in delegated legislation. So the practice has been to include provisions in individual statutes, to enable material to be incorporated by reference in instruments made under these statutes. Since 2003 standard provisions set out in the Legislation Advisory Committee guidelines containing important public consultation and access requirements have been used. The bill includes these as generally applicable provisions so that they will not need to be duplicated in every new bill. This will ensure greater clarity and consistency in how this material is to be incorporated into our law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe Parliamentary Counsel Office\u2019s governance arrangements and operations are also being modernised under the bill to reflect how the office operates today and\u2014very important\u2014to ensure its continuing independence. That office ensures that bills and regulations are properly drafted, and I believe I speak for all members when I say it does a fine job on behalf of all of us. Its printing and publication functions enable legislation to be publicly available, easily located, and expressed in clear language. Some important new functions are being added by the bill, and these include providing official electronic as well as paper versions of Acts and legislative instruments, carrying out a 3-yearly statute revision programme to improve the presentation of our statutes, and advising departments and agencies on the drafting of instruments that are not drafted by the Parliamentary Counsel Office, such as rules, codes, and standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EIn 2009 the Law Commission identified that there are over 1,100 statutes in force. Some of these statutes are old and are expressed in language that can be described only as archaic. Many have been amended over the years in a piecemeal way, and this has resulted in sometimes unwieldy and incoherent legislation. The statute revision programme reforms in the bill will enable amendments to be incorporated with principal Acts, outdated language to be converted into the Parliamentary Counsel Office plain-language drafting style, and obsolete and expired provisions to be removed. Re-enacting legislation in a more accessible form will help individuals and businesses more easily to understand the rules that apply, and this will reduce regulatory cost. These changes and the enhanced reprinting powers in the bill will also assist in reducing the need for, and the cost of, technical, remedial legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ECan I conclude by thanking the Law Commission for its work and the Regulations Review Committee for recommending some valuable amendments, which, I think, have the effect of further clarifying and improving this bill. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u00223111ba8569504b9ca748cbcb4257ddbc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223111ba8569504b9ca748cbcb4257ddbc\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Deputy Speaker, in order to continue to rivet you I would like to make just a few additional comments to those that have been made by the speaker who has just resumed his seat, the Attorney-General. I would like to begin by acknowledging his acknowledgment of the work done by the Regulations Review Committee in the previous term of Parliament. The recommendations, I think, on the basis of advice from the officials who appeared before the committee, did indeed add value to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI think in particular about the recommendations concerning Part 4, which deals with the constitution of the Parliamentary Counsel Office. The need to modernise the statute under which parliamentary counsel operate had, I think, become pressing. At the moment, the legislation dates back to the 1920s. It was very much a case of it being timely to update that legislation in order to ensure not only that there were appropriate governance and management structures applicable to the office but also fairly rudimentary issues like legal protection for members of the office when they are performing their official duties within powers and in good faith. Just as every other person in the Public Service has that protection, now it will be going forward that the members of the Parliamentary Counsel Office team have that protection as well, and that is as it should be. In fact, it is remarkable that it has taken Parliament nearly 100 years to confer that protection. It is also appropriate to have clarified the client status of those being advised or assisted by members of the office, so as to be very clear that legal professional privilege and all the other requirements of professional conduct should apply to members of the office. They no doubt exhibit those attributes now, but the law will make it clear that the duties exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI want to pay tribute to the Acting Chief Parliamentary Counsel, Mr Moore. He has had to step into the breach in the absence of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel on an extended basis on a secondment in the United Kingdom. I think Mr Moore has done a terrific job of stepping into the gap. Certainly, he has been of great assistance to the Regulations Review Committee in the discharge of our duties to this House. Although I appreciate that sometimes select committee chairs and members will receive slightly different advice from his office on the one hand and the Regulations Review Committee on the other, we are certainly striving to resolve those differences where we can, and where we cannot, well, the reality is that that means that the committees have contestable advice on what drafting best practice is. I think that is a good thing for the committees. They are in a position to make the sorts of judgments that they should make when they do receive advice that is contestable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe Minister spoke about the changes that will be made by the bill in respect of the Regulations Review Committee\u2019s jurisdiction. They are sensible changes. In terms of the definition of the types of instruments that the committee will be able to scrutinise on behalf of the House, the changes are sensible changes. They broaden the ability of the committee to perform the House\u2019s scrutiny function on its behalf, and I certainly welcome them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E The legislation also updates the law relating to the publishing, reprinting, and revising of legislation. I think the most significant innovation that I would want to mention is the conferral of official status on electronic versions of Acts and other statutory instruments. That is an overdue move. It is also one to be welcomed. The status of searchable legislation on the internet, on the legislation website, is now clarified, and it will be appropriate to use that legislation in that version, and any prints that are made of it, as an official version of the legislation. That makes a lot of sense, given the way that we deal with legislation these days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EFinally, the issue of systematic revision is to be welcomed. I know that any member who has gone out into the lobbies and tried to look up what the law is on a particular issue knows that sometimes they have got to go to a number of different Acts of Parliament, a number of different regulations. Over time, the revision process will mean that we have a much more logical and coherent statute book, and it is very much a reform to be welcomed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI want to conclude by thanking my colleagues on the Regulations Review Committee in the last term for the work they did on this bill. I also want to acknowledge not only, as I said earlier, the Chief Parliamentary Counsel but the other members of his team and the former Chief Parliamentary Counsel who appeared before the committee to give their views on this legislation. It is good and timely legislation. Perhaps the one regret that we might express is that it has taken so long, first, to be introduced, and, secondly, to wend its way through the House. But, none the less, it is finally happening, it is to be welcomed, and I certainly commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022024aee2e8e89492b9efa6aa09b099c1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022024aee2e8e89492b9efa6aa09b099c1f\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E I like this piece of legislation because it brings simplicity to, and reduces unnecessary complexity of, cumbersome processes that often come out of this House. I think it was the, at the time, president of the European Commission in Europe, Jacque Delors from France, who said that Governments should do less, but what they do they should do better. And as far as this Legislation Bill is concerned, I think very much this goes a long way to helping bring the legislation that this Parliament creates closer to the people of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe Legislation Bill intends to \u201Cmodernise and improve the law regarding the publication, availability, reprinting, revision, and official versions of legislation,\u201D. But all MPs in this House, at one time or another, would have constituents come to them and say: \u201CWell, I hear in the media what you\u2019ve done. I was able to have a look and see what the legislation says.\u201D, but it does not make any sense to them. So I think it is important that we replace the Statutes Drafting and Compilation Act of 1920. I am not sure whether it has had revision in that period of time, but 1920 is quite some time ago, and the world has certainly moved on. In particular, I recognise that the changes made in this legislation will have a big impact. \u201CThe establishment of a three-yearly programme of systematic revision of Acts\u201D\u2014well, that is quite important. Indeed, if this had been in place earlier, then perhaps one of the Acts it is replacing, like the Act drafted in 1920, would have been updated previously and we would not need to do what we are doing today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI want to say that a couple of things are very important to all New Zealanders. The clear accessibility of law, I think, is a fundamental part of the rule of law, and it is because people need to understand the legislation that we pass here in this House. For this to happen, Parliament needs to focus and do its job properly. Waffly and imprecise wording is of absolutely no use to anybody. The Law Commission has rightly said that our statute law as a whole currently lacks cohesion, is untidy, and can be difficult to understand. I want to recognise that the Parliamentary Counsel Office has gone to great lengths to try to work within this, but it is important that we use clear English in our bills so that they can be more easily understood. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EFrom research, I want to give an example of how you can get it so very wrong. One real shocker from the United Kingdom is contained in the Banking Act 1979 Appeals Procedure (England and Wales) Regulations 1979. The Act of Parliament says: \u201CAny reference in these regulations to a regulation is a reference to a regulation contained in these regulations.\u201D Well, actually, that is quite precise in so far as how the court would interpret it, but there will be people at home watching on their TV or listening on their radio to this who will be concerned greatly at what that means. So is it not wonderful that we do not have to grapple with that in New Zealand legislation? This bill will ensure that, in so far as Parliament doing its job properly and appropriately is concerned, never will we have something that says: \u201CAny reference in these regulations to a regulation is a reference to a regulation contained in these regulations.\u201D I might just leave it there. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022 data-id=\u00222b69a796f4184592b7d91cc8164217cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b69a796f4184592b7d91cc8164217cf\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party is happy to support the Legislation Bill. It is about two issues: housekeeping and power. It is about housekeeping because the job of this Parliament is to make sure that the output is comprehensible, modernised, and regularly reviewed, and it will do that. I would just like to acknowledge Charles Chauvel and the Regulations Review Committee for their work, because I think it is very important. That housekeeping needs to be done well, like any housekeeping. It may seem to outsiders to be obscure, but when you live in the house you know that it needs to be done well, for the benefit of others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EBut it is also about power. We would argue that accessible language for the law is really another language altogether. We need to make sure that legalese, which could be called a language of its own, is comprehensible to people. Legalese is something that lawyers will understand, and that many politicians with more experience than me can use, but many citizens find it utterly incomprehensible and totally alienating. A really good example of that is that wonderful Australian movie The Castle, where they go to court over the airport versus the family. In that movie the man in court, fighting for his family home, does not know, after he has heard the judgment, whether they have won or lost. He thinks that they have won when they have lost, and then later on he thinks that they have lost when they have won. That is a really good example of how many people feel when they are before the courts. It is really a matter of some shame that the citizens of a country cannot understand the law. That, of course, was Australia, but I do not think that we can deny that this country also has obscure laws. Having spent some time in the Environment Court as a lay advocate, I have seen the confusion on many faces, including my own, if I am going to be honest, because the law is not designed for clarity. It is designed to achieve certain purposes, and clarity has not always been at the front.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EPlain English is one thing. Imagine if the first language is not English, imagine if the person before the court is from the Pacific, which happens a lot in Aotearoa New Zealand, and imagine if the first language is from another part of the world. Not only do you have a language barrier but also you have two language barriers: you have legalese, that special language that disempowers many people, and then you have the barrier of English. So it is not only about plain English reporting. We would like to see legislation translated and made available to all cultures and languages in our country, which is going to be a big task, given the diversity of our culture.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EIt is really, really important that the law belongs to the people. The law does not just belong to the lawyers, and it does not belong to MPs. It belongs to the people, and if people are going to use this thing we create in this House, they have to be able to understand it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ESo we support this bill. We think that the clarifications are important. We also think that the progress in terms of electronic access is really important, because many people now rely on electronics for all of their communication. Therefore, to have actual copies of the law available electronically, as well as some of the commentary, would be really, really helpful. The consolidation of access is another part of the importance of the democracy. So this bill is really about, as I said, housekeeping and access to democracy. It takes us forward, and we are very happy to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf048bbfa5f94843b59dd83fefab5ff6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf048bbfa5f94843b59dd83fefab5ff6\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call on the Legislation Bill, and to acknowledge the last speaker, Catherine Delahunty. I just say that there is a tension between the simplest language possible being used in legislation, and, of course, the other matter, which is precision. There has been a trade-off, made over some years now, between the length of legislation, to ensure that as simple a language as possible is used, but also sometimes at the risk of imprecision. One has only to look at the number of amending bills that come back to fix up what were well-intended drafting initiatives that have to be clarified subsequently, and, indeed, at the comments of the judges in the profession themselves, who have to make sense of our attempts at trying to make the legislation more accessible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EBut there is no question that the objective of trying to make legislation more accessible, and streamlining the process for it, in terms of publication and correction, is welcome and, some might say, overdue. To the extent that this bill means that the periodic review of legislation means that those clerical errors that are identified and can be fixed up without changing the substance, meaning, or intention of the bill can be done, that is good. But there is also the publication of legislation. Catherine Delahunty is absolutely correct in that there is no point in claiming as a principle of law in the court that ignorance of the law is no excuse, on the one hand, but actually making law inaccessible, at the very least, through the means of publication, on the other hand. There is a conflict between those two objectives. The fact that this bill promotes and encourages greater accessibility through online and electronic means is a most welcome development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI relayed in an earlier speech on this bill the experience I had recently of a senior member of the Bar\u2014a QC, in fact\u2014who had come along to a court hearing armed with large, voluminous texts, carrying a great weight on this rather frail frame of a person. How easy it would have been, had he understood and managed electronic access to the legislation. That would have made his day, I am sure, a lot easier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225494b92a409e46d3b1adf9ff6f3f4f7e\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s no need to talk about Trevor like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264414c02135547e59a7b6c28640bd9ea\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: We are generous on this side of the House, and no matter who a QC represents, whether it is defendants or\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227255c29a79ba4844b68a87d77225cd02\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: $14,000-a-day QCs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261695af311b14f01a46a0cb4b4f46943\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014$14,000-a-day QCs, even they\u2014some of them\u2014struggle with electronic access to legislation, and this will make it a lot easier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EBut even when we are dealing with legislation that is somewhat brief and runs to only a few pages\u2014and let me randomly select an example. The Defamation Act, for example, is a reasonably brief piece of legislation, but it is amazing how many lawyers struggle to court with it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2e1ed6d12844c46bea371586771454f\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: This is about saving face, is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf6967d978934d7cb1ab0c53b890a5ac\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Our faces are well saved, Mr Henare. My recent experiences of engagements with QCs have left me feeling lighter for the experience, happier, and most contented with my contributions politically over the last 12 months. I am appreciative of the support I have had from all sections of the House, not only from my colleagues on this side, but also from one or two on the other side as well. It all goes to illustrate that legislation, if it is to be made sense of in a modern, democratic State, as indeed we are, needs to be accessible through all means. This bill is well intentioned and well drafted, and for that reason we support it without exception.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u00223feffa7819014910bd7b3abce0675ce0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223feffa7819014910bd7b3abce0675ce0\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E The Legislation Bill contributes towards regulatory reform by modernising and improving the law relating to the publication, availability, reprinting, revision, and official versions of legislation in a single piece of legislation. The bill is the Government\u2019s response to two Law Commission reports that said New Zealand\u2019s statute law is generally incoherent, untidy, and difficult to understand. The bill will modernise and improve our statute book by, among other things, preserving the independence of the Parliamentary Counsel Office and enabling it to use clear English in bills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s legislation needs to remain effective, clear, and accessible to the public. Better and less regulation is essential to boosting New Zealand\u2019s productivity, growth, competitiveness, and living standards. So I commend the bill to the House. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u00225481f27e368c473abf1a6c18d064c308\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225481f27e368c473abf1a6c18d064c308\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First is happy to support the Legislation Bill. We think it improves the accessibility and understanding of legislation for the New Zealand public, and it is high time that there is modernisation of legislation governing the drafting of legislation and concerning the functions of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel in the ways recommended by the Law Commission. The most important part, I think, provides for a 3-year programme of systematic revision of legislation. That is a very welcome move and something that probably should have been done a long time ago. The bill would also alter the functions of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel. In particular, the Chief Parliamentary Counsel will be required to publish legislation in an electronic as well as a printed form, which, of course, they now do anyway, and to issue official versions of legislation in an electronic and a printed form. As a previous speaker said, so many people these days rely entirely on that way of accessing our legislation, and other things, of course, as well, so this will be very welcome to allow people\u2014and I think it is the majority\u2014to find their way through updated legislation through electronic means. This just brings the situation up to date and is most appropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EBut revision does not include substantive changes to the law. Clause 29(2) says: \u201CThe purpose of revision is to re-enact, in an up-to-date and accessible form, the law previously contained in all or part of 1 or more Acts, but (except as authorised by this subpart) revision is not intended to change the effect of a law.\u201D I think that is a very important issue, and I think it has been well addressed in the bill. The revision programme in clause 31(2) is the crux of the bill, and it includes such things as the revision of the whole or one part of one or more Acts, with the ability to combine or divide them as may be appropriate; the omission of redundant and spent provisions; provision for new or additional purpose provisions; minor amendments to clarify Parliament\u2019s intent; and the updating of monetary amounts and that kind of thing. Clause 31(3), however, states that \u201CA revision Bill must not change the effect of the law,\u201D. Therefore, great care will still be needed in practice to preserve the integrity of the Acts that are being dealt with under this legislation. That is something I think the House will need to be careful of when it looks at revision bills as they come through in future. In other words, we are still going to have to be vigilant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EClause 34(2) repeats the requirements not to change the effect of any statute, but that is qualified by clause 31(3), which says: \u201CA revision Bill must not change the effect of the law, except as authorised by subsection (2)(i)\u201D\u2014which is the one I referred to relating to minor amendments only\u2014\u201Cor (j).\u201D, which is the one I also referred to relating to simply updating monetary amounts and that kind of thing. Clause 33A, in relation to minor policy changes to revision bills, also admits some capacity to make substantive changes in revision bills, but clause 33A(1) says: \u201CA revision Bill, as introduced, must not contain any proposed change to the effect of the law unless the amendment is authorised by section 31.\u201D And it goes on to say in subclause (2): \u201Cnothing in this Act affects the powers of the House of Representatives to amend a revision Bill for any purpose and to pass it with amendment.\u201D That refers back to the vigilance that I said we still have to maintain because of that provision. However, having said that, it is still\u2014and it must always be\u2014open to the House to amend bills however it thinks fit at any time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EConcerning the functions of the Parliamentary Counsel Office, I welcome the new subclause (1)(h) of clause 58, which expressly refers to the rights of the public. It says in that subclause that one of the functions of the Parliamentary Counsel Office is \u201Cto examine all local Bills and private Bills, and to examine the Members\u2019 Bills that the Attorney-General directs be examined, and to report to the Attorney-General on the effect of Bills examined, in particular on whether they affect the rights of the Crown or the public, and on their relationship to other legislation:\u201D. It is good to see that there will be some objective reporting on effects on the rights of the public, and I think that is a good safeguard as far as this bill is concerned. I think that is a very good provision, which New Zealand First supports wholeheartedly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EWith regard to the appointment of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel, we completely agree with the need for that person to be legally qualified in New Zealand or in a similar jurisdiction, and with the same provision for other parliamentary counsel as well. We think this is a very good bill. The amendments that have been made are supported as well. We are very happy to see it go through, and we will be voting in favour of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u002221dd5f3191d5437eb16ad3e4dd2fcbe7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221dd5f3191d5437eb16ad3e4dd2fcbe7\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of the third reading of the Legislation Bill. I would like to make a short contribution. The Legislation Bill, as the commentary on the bill states, \u201Cis intended to modernise and improve the law regarding the publication, availability, reprinting, revision, and official versions of legislation, and bring it together into one piece of legislation.\u201D I support the idea and the efforts of the Parliamentary Counsel Office and Law Commission to tidy the statute book and make it easier to understand, because much of the old legislation is very wordy and hard to understand. The Parliamentary Counsel Office aims to use clearer English in bills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAs someone who is actually a speaker of English as a second language and who learnt English as a second language, I welcome this bill. Often when migrants want to know about laws and legislation they find the words very, very difficult to understand. To them it is gobbledegook. Even I have to look up dictionaries and documents to try to understand some of the language. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EClear and accessible law is a fundamental part of the rule of law. People need to be able to understand legislation. The courts need to be able to interpret legislation for this to happen. We need to do our job properly. Hard-to-understand, imprecise wording is of no use to anybody. I commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2012120559bdd9ee390549b78cf4fb98f6fc09c5000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 12.08 p.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"