"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227d8e0e100f984bb3b016c9fe1e90cbc9\u0022\u003ETuesday, 11 December 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002269bfc3e001d94f7d9b1b486121cc1883\u0022\u003ETuesday, 11 December 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223d9d5a1bb5b44d14a27d34b9a89e9910\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022066b8fde5f004114877e0ed172c3b919\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ef69f1b19d9b434798e13b5d1ba17e16\u0022\u003EChild Poverty\u2014Government Actions to Address and Measuring Numbers Affected\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u00228f359409eff04efaa8997f120b6e112d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f359409eff04efaa8997f120b6e112d\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement \u201CI am deeply concerned about every child in New Zealand who is in poverty\u201D; if so, why has the number of children living in material hardship grown under his watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022257f442d34e84d019093efb95e335575\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022257f442d34e84d019093efb95e335575\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I stand by that statement. The recent report by Bryan Perry says that the rise in non-income material hardship from 2006-07 to 2010-11, which the member is referring to, is \u201Cnot unexpected given the impact of the GFC and the economic downturn.\u201D Interestingly enough, though, the same report also shows that in 2007, after Working for Families had been introduced, and following a $7 billion surplus, there were between 170,000 and 240,000 children living in poverty, depending on the exact measure used. So that is the point, is it not? Labour had $7 billion and still had\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022946c25b17d2442598e29916f0c7e0862\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b347baa6826b442eae16465d1ce354a4\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statements that if the Government does not take action to provide food in schools \u201Cwe are effectively punishing children for the sins of their parents.\u201D; if not, what has changed since he has made those statements, other than that the number of children living in hardship has increased?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f5c79d2734543c0ba85925e3417bcd3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I stand by that statement. The Government has expanded Fruit in Schools, the Government has given money to KidsCan to fund more schools, and the Government has worked with other commercial entities like Fonterra to run programmes in schools. I go back to this question: in 2007, as an example, was there any child in New Zealand going to school hungry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bccca099dd81439ab205fedbe543bc96\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220931e82d6fba42519684db4d4c2761c3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, and there was a $7 billion surplus and they did not care about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0b81239b4424b68b6dda317cdb55103\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that last answer, will he back the proposal made by KidsCan today, where a $1.9 million investment by the Government would be matched by the private sector to provide 16,000 children in deciles 1 to 4 schools with food; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228894d87da53b423cbd360d138ebeefdc\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: We are not ruling out doing a bit more work with Julie at KidsCan, and we will go away and have a look to see whether there is some more we can do. But let me raise another question. In 2006 was there any child who went to school\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291e084f4ef7a41fdaa98e4911e54d6aa\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! It is actually the Minister\u2019s job to answer questions, not to ask questions. [Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d81134dadb964bc8a8a24c1fb0b72579\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Would he support a policy to ensure that private rental properties for low-income tenants are upgraded, as recommended by the Children\u2019s Commissioner, particularly as private landlords have been slow to take up the Government\u2019s Warm Up New Zealand programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5a3f752d6164c1b844f6912c0e34a0e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I think the Minister for Social Development has already said that she will look pretty closely at, potentially, the warrant of fitness idea for landlords who receive the accommodation supplement. Again, they might want to have a look at it. But this is a Government that by 2013\u2014from 2009\u2014has insulated 190,000 homes at the cost of $347 million. This is a Government that in 4 years\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c7e77bc30ea4b1f825baf69ac276a9c\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That question was about private rentals, not about what the Government has done. In State housing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d6c5a6c4e894012b93ec8d40f86959a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Now one is getting as bad as the other. The member was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd4611afecd2405991c50d5d9073fd8c\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: It was a good point of order, I thought.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222181e2824cda4b1caed84813bb26c714\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member was perfectly at liberty to raise a point of order, but not to enter into the debate that way, though. I think that given the tit for tat we had better move on to the next supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ecb26ce3a0f4f35b5f87262fb931dca\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government adopt a measure of poverty; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295dbf2dddbe34fac850a5418739b5657\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, not a single measure of poverty. I think there are a number of ways of measuring poverty, but I think I will use this measure as one measure\u2014that was, in 2007 after housing costs there were 240,000 children in New Zealand living in poverty, and that Government had\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245771a89fcd446e0878c8f930409ba55\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022890836039efa4260b78dae42b83ebcb6\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think that the $9 billion a year he spent on tax cuts, two-thirds of which went to the top 20 percent of income earners, giving the bottom 20 percent nothing, have been beneficial to children in poverty; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c97f63c85a34471fa4f2b5502c2d8757\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member has to stop consulting the Labour finance spokesperson to get his numbers, because they are always wrong. As we have been through before, the tax cuts were not only distributionally neutral, as has never been debunked by Labour, but, interestingly enough\u2014[Interruption] We are in the silly season, so if they want to reverse the National Government\u2019s tax programme in 2014 they can go ahead, because this year alone the Government got billions of dollars extra from those tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5020e0af5574fae86291f7da64542dd\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document by Brian Easton\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c73c247c08d43cf9a75537478db8dec\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! This is a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8c39710776443299e6cf1b80a269224\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014which backs up the figures that I just used about National\u2019s tax cuts benefiting the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4bf4f65a0d34cf7a73c9b9481f82041\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The article is by Brian Easton but what was it published in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223afe74e1079b456ea96e7812dedc9eea\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: It was on his website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb613c8ae9d644a8b9fa0dc505c0d7ef\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think that is readily available to all members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d14d7c2ea824658b173d70666f8e0d4\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: It is not a well-known website, although it might be more well known now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f49e131fb6d4db688d7223a8dd135c5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I think we had better settle down. The House has had its fairly robust time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022066628aa9752410dbab7aff33ccaa02b\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa. Does he agree with his statement on 3 July 2012 that \u201CIf you don\u2019t measure, monitor and report on things, I don\u2019t think you get progress.\u201D; if so, does he agree that setting indicators and targets for the reduction of poverty is critical if we are to achieve the difference we want in the lives of some 270,000 New Zealand children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022444ddd8f556f491caca33e7e3954ddd2\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I absolutely agree that you need to measure, monitor, and report on things. Therefore, I have measured that this year the Government will spend $2.1 billion on family tax credits, 40 percent of which goes to beneficiaries. We have measured that this Government will give around $2 billion on subsidising housing through income-related rents and accommodation supplements. This year this Government will spend $1.4 billion on early childhood education. This year this Government will spend almost $5 billion on benefits, including $1.8 billion on the DPB. This Government will put $24 million into rheumatic fever. This Government will increase the number of children going to early childhood education, and this Government\u2014suffering the worst global financial crisis we have seen\u2014has maintained all benefit entitlement. Not bad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1973a8798f14952965a91ea6579cc4a\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister pleased that in the relationship accord signed with the M\u0101ori Party 1 year ago today it was agreed that a Ministerial Committee on Poverty would be established to bring a greater focus to, and improve coordination of, Government\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e1ba2af95264456b1f09edcd9667ce9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I want to be able to hear this question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b3385b541ca4e4992e0960f44b6b0cb\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Shall I start again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce993e3e62b5486fbb0155718ef05597\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member may start again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225e553e8785c4229958600c2574e72a2\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much. Is the Prime Minister pleased that in the relationship accord signed with the M\u0101ori Party 1 year ago today it was agreed that a Ministerial Committee on Poverty would be established to bring a greater focus to, and improve coordination of, Government activity aimed at alleviating the effects of poverty, and will he ask that the committee now demonstrate the leadership required to adopt a strategic framework for addressing child poverty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa007138c808447687f8ec0d7984abfc\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am pleased it has been formed. I have also myself been to that committee meeting and seen Russell Wills actually presenting to the committee his recommendations that were presented in the child report today. The Government will look at adopting some of those recommendations, but I go back to the point I made earlier that these have been difficult economic times and the Government has put more money in these areas. The people, I think, who should be ashamed in this country are the people who had a $20 billion surplus over 3 years and cared so little that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6d2a66443324dd19bccd0293a575065\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Prime Minister has got no responsibility for that. Question No. 2, Todd McClay\u2014[Interruption] Order! I would like the House to be just a little more reasonable with the interjections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229960fa17d8b84e3e8466898c6d39e046\u0022\u003EEconomic Recovery\u2014Support for Vulnerable New Zealanders\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00224fc0a5410c734c7ea160657e4ceefdb1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224fc0a5410c734c7ea160657e4ceefdb1\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What measures has the Government taken to support vulnerable New Zealanders through the aftermath of the domestic recession and global financial crisis? [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d31b62636984e16af4475b0e66924e2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Now, look, I just asked the House to be more reasonable. The Minister has not even opened his mouth and the honourable\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3f85f2eca1f4b1ca23d3a3959a03e9e\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I wasn\u2019t interrupting anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233461cebd7fb4aa7a7a2c995e6c275f4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am still on my feet. The honourable shadow Leader of the House is interjecting in an unacceptable way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00222d6cbc7e53094e2ea31df0e3eae3ec1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d6cbc7e53094e2ea31df0e3eae3ec1e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Despite difficult economic times, the Government has focused on assisting those most in need through the recession. We have adjusted all welfare payments for the cost of living. New Zealand superannuation has been increased by $194 a fortnight, or 22 percent, since 1 April 2008. We adjusted all benefits to compensate for the rise in GST. We have also invested significantly more in specific programmes designed to help New Zealanders off welfare and into work, because that is the single most important step households can take to help themselves. We have also embarked on a broad-ranging process of reform to reorganise the way that government interacts with those who are most vulnerable, so that we can encourage them on to a path of independence, rather than trapping them in dependence as our traditional structures have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d54865ee3cf48c98d3b0c20783ad5c0\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: What are some examples of Government initiatives focused particularly on improving the lives of vulnerable children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221304109ae8544975997c07751090bd99\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There is a long list, but these measures are focused on those who suffer the most deprivation, which is actually a different group\u2014a smaller group\u2014from those who find themselves in a situation of a low-income household. The initiatives include, though, the Better Public Services results targeted on increasing infant immunisation rates, which are now higher than they have ever been in New Zealand, a reduction in assaults on children, and increasing participation in early childhood education, particularly for those from the most vulnerable households. This comes on top of extending the programme to improve the living conditions of tens of thousands of New Zealand children by insulating and heating 230,000 homes, which will include the insulation of all 70,000 State houses by the end of next year. That is not to mention the rheumatic fever programme and further funding for free under-sixes doctors\u2019 visits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280da09bf38254d5ea8e134a40b021343\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: What recent reports has the Minister seen on the position of New Zealand\u2019s most vulnerable children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272a89aa656c045dfb7cba545e5f9aa0f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Children\u2019s Commissioner\u2019s expert advisory committee today issued its report on solutions to child poverty, including 78 recommendations. We will pick up some of the ideas that we believe will work, and some of the issues that the report covers are already being addressed. For instance, there is merit in the suggestion of community hubs, and in a warrant of fitness for homes that access Government subsidies. The Government is already ensuring that beneficiary teen parents are in education and being helped into work. In fact, all 2,600 teenage mums under the age of 18 now have an organisation alongside them, supervising their progress. However, we will not support universal child payments. Families on the lowest incomes are in the greatest need, and any new spending needs to be targeted on them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215f23ca588654c15aed342db8b0859a2\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government\u2019s overall approach to addressing some of the issues raised by the Children\u2019s Commissioner\u2019s advisory group report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b433d4235fb14cdb83fdfebc0f969beb\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Our approach is to work to protect those who are genuinely the most vulnerable by targeting more of the Government\u2019s resources on those people and those families, rather than spreading resources thinly across all New Zealanders through universal programmes. We are also focusing on mobility\u2014that is, assisting people out of the dependence in which they can often be trapped to take the steps, such as through education, through skills, through supported childcare, and through assistance into employment, towards independence so that they do not remain in poverty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228829319522db499cbcdc8f7fc1c89b84\u0022\u003EChild Poverty, Abuse, and Neglect\u2014Government Measures to Address\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdf40ed453c44a7d9b73d5058a2d4348\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdf40ed453c44a7d9b73d5058a2d4348\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: When he said \u201Cwe don\u2019t want to see any New Zealand child suffer \u2026 children don\u2019t get to make choices, they\u2019re often the victim of circumstance\u201D does that mean he will take tangible steps to ensure children don\u2019t suffer because of circumstances beyond their control?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u002227a44fba4a8f44e297e73652679c1e4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227a44fba4a8f44e297e73652679c1e4d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E We are taking tangible steps. If the member read the White Paper for Vulnerable Children, for example, she would see that we are introducing, amongst other things, child abuse prevention orders; new teams made up of local education, health, and social sector professionals, to respond to the needs of vulnerable children; a new system to draw together information from Government agencies and front-line professionals about vulnerable children, and to provide early alerts; and a new Child Protect line, to provide a single point of contact for all New Zealanders to report any concerns they have about children or young people. Together with a number of other initiatives, these represent the most significant advancement in child protection in many, many years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1482e45085242e697727195dd5bd083\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: How does his Government\u2019s welfare sanctions regime, which deliberately takes money from the poorest children because of their parents\u2019 inability to fulfil his social obligations, fit with his desire to ensure that children do not suffer because of the choices of others?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d8283a81443427bac789353fbce074e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, as the member will be aware, the matter is before the select committee, so people can put forward their ideas. But whenever sanctions are applied\u2014and there are examples where sanctions can be applied\u2014the Ministry of Social Development, or the front-line Work and Income people, go through many, many steps before they get there, but there are, in the end, very good reasons why a sanction would be applied. They are also maintained at 50 percent where there are other dependants. But, in the end, the idea of the sanctions is to see corrected behaviour. More often than not we use carrots; occasionally we are required to use a stick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216c7e9610f0047948b91414713dd494e\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think that the 36,000 children admitted to hospital in the past year for poverty-related medical conditions got there because of choices that they made; if not, will he now commit to extending free doctors\u2019 visits to all children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207684e04b60844f0b1dd3449add54d66\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: We are not in a position to extend free doctors\u2019 visits to all children, but we have been in a position to extend free doctors\u2019 visits to under-sixes, and I think if you look at the financial conditions that this Government has faced, that has been an important step. Secondly, I am not sure that it would be in the best interests of the very children she is talking about that we extend that policy on a universal basis, because children coming from very well-to-do homes actually can afford to have their parents pay. Let us target and focus more on those who are in need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a58c0a23e8134e0babadadb68b172730\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister talked to general practitioners about his view that parents of children over 6 who cannot afford to take their kids to the doctor should simply hope that the doctor will not make them pay; if so, what did the general practitioners say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bcd53e7556a49e196c93a62bd3dc792\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot recall a specific conversation on that, so I would not want to offer a view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224130158263224aedbc58cb7756e1dec2\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a transcript of John Key\u2019s radio interview\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d28b0299e054a53aedbc6b24d7c76b6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The source of this is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022518dbc0082fa4cc98650902a03b8c2e4\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: The source of this document is from my own office\u2014a transcript of the interview that was given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5f37ed2791a434eaf3c7d9b065e2f63\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A broadcast interview?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f017b69942c145c7ac0b5c8bc41be1aa\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: A broadcast interview.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220663959cbfbd4fb9a6ecf5fc54afc29a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, we do not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ce8c9e6fed34e06afca6ea6b4f91737\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014showing the Prime Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222727adacf54c4d59ac12d6d9167c08a6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! Members should know better than to use that process to try to enhance their statements, because we do not table transcripts of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b50f76a47f6d452ba76e348e7c41f42d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. We have had rulings in the past about generally available transcripts of radio interviews, but whether radio interviews that are not now available to members\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e5737f8c4fe49de9e7ac3667f9b7795\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! It is a point of order and it should not be interjected on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022921bd61b30c1425fb17f78235244bfff\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: My understanding is that if that interview is not available for rebroadcast, and this transcript is available\u2014not otherwise available\u2014then it has been the practice to at least put it to the House. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213b5f706a376486c9c2db3be5d0c0c76\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I should have\u2014[Interruption] Order! This is a point of order. [Interruption] Order! Both sides should come to order. I apologise to the member. I should have checked when the interview took place. If it took place a year or two ago, then no problem. If it is a very recent interview, though, then it is available. Such transcripts are readily available. I will just check with the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fbd7647910746cca392b8a6dad1acb0\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: The interview took place yesterday, but there is no transcript of this interview available to members. So\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dd0c695b0e54abe8dad26ed5d57762e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! To deal with the problem I will seek the leave of the House, and that will settle the matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d9483ca2c714467a10176c7308d5483\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. First of all, this whole ruling should change when the Prime Minister puts the issue in contention. He claims that he cannot remember what he said yesterday, and the second thing he said was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022949459d4316d4f93a0f5e6c87add0617\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member is now using the point of order process to try to score a political point. [Interruption] Order! The House will stop, and he will not do that. Sure, we could do that in the old days, but not any more. The easiest way to settle this is to seek the leave of the House and I will do that. Leave is sought for that transcript to be tabled. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200f37cebea564190b3866d432afc9f01\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: If the Prime Minister does not want to see children suffer, why has he immediately ruled out a universal child payment for the under-fives, despite the Children\u2019s Commissioner\u2019s group of experts recommending that it would make life better for a quarter of a million New Zealand children and be a genuine investment in the prosperity of our country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0f45c20d0b34aed98cfad9913e1c89b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Because I think that in difficult economic times it is far better to channel those resources to those in need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022368671d662bd4953a7aede97ca3bc7c5\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: So if the Prime Minister\u2019s priority is to target the poorest children, will he immediately approve additional financial support for the 170,000 children whose parents are beneficiaries, or, failing that, pass on the child support payments to those families, or, failing that, at least try to protect the jobs for their parents, 78,000 of whom no longer have work under this watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288b498a14668493fa6ec2249844e6826\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is channelling resources\u2014significant resources\u2014to those families, and the Government is working, in difficult economic conditions, to try to preserve New Zealanders\u2019 jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022821274d53dd84b22b756cccf5a76d9fc\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Given that kids have no choice but he does, what dollar value would he put on the lost opportunities of a generation of Kiwi kids who are trapped in poverty and who may not grow up to be the doctors, and lawyers, and artists, and gardeners, and even the Prime Ministers of the future, because his choice is to help out wealthy adults at children\u2019s expense? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ac32fdc08504e929a6bf902bed2621e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, I utterly refute the last point. Secondly, it is a well-known statement of fact that I actually came from a very economically poor household, and it did not stop me becoming Prime Minister. What made me Prime Minister was that my mother, who was a solo mother, had the foresight to ensure that I got a decent education. This Government is doing more about that than those people over there have done. When they had $20 billion over 3 years in surplus\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242498f2c8f924319839f40c6862ba0bc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! The question was asked by the Green Party, not by the Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cddcca9f612d425a94c59e07a385b47f\u0022\u003EImmigration, Minister\u2014Confidence and China Southern Airlines Frequent Flyer Scheme\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00226787f7588d024afc9ba747bc1aa8f8cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226787f7588d024afc9ba747bc1aa8f8cd\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he have confidence in the Minister of Immigration?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022244adfdbff424621a6694810fe4bbd50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022244adfdbff424621a6694810fe4bbd50\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d166b30f63e49ae8472ef0a88c83627\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How can he have confidence in the Minister of Immigration when he told the House on 14 November that they will \u201Cneed to meet health and good-character checks.\u201D, when in fact Immigration New Zealand rules regarding visitor visas mean that most China Southern Airlines passengers will not be subject to any health or character checks at all? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b327aca61f945d6886f3aeeed32a2f8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member, really, if he has got very detailed questions, needs to put them to the Minister of Immigration. But my understanding is that people, including China Southern Airlines visitors who come to New Zealand, will still need to apply for a visa, and have all of those conditions met. What they will be waived is the economic test, because the number of miles that they have flown indicate that they have got the resources to go back to China. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c50325b1e594dc89e8aa9a5e9086794\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How can he possibly have confidence in the Minister, such that he is now making that answer, given that the average length of stay in New Zealand for Chinese tourists is 5 days; how can he then continue to defend his Minister\u2019s claim that they \u201Cstill will need to meet health and good-character checks.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b24df8ef5c2a4d61933e95ed280e932c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think the length of time that Chinese tourists stay in New Zealand has got anything to do with the question the member is asking. Chinese tourists tend to come for smaller periods of time at the moment. That is one of the reasons why we are working aggressively in that market to build up the length of time that they may stay in New Zealand, so that they become higher-spending consumers. That is true also in Japan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0ec1bdb59f8405fbeb6545b7a65d102\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister is being asked how his Minister of Immigration can make those claims when that is not what the law is, and it is not what is being applied by Immigration New Zealand either. I am not interested about the high value of their visit\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8eae5790b364e868d9de1c45787ec19\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! The member is now debating the matter. He can raise a point of order about whether or not his question was answered. In his question the member mentioned issues to do with how the Prime Minister could say what he said, given that they had stayed here only 5 days, if I remember correctly. What the member is now just raising by a point of order does not match exactly the supplementary question he asked. That is my dilemma in dealing with it. But he cannot debate the Prime Minister\u2019s answer by way of a point of order. If the Prime Minister has not answered his question, that is one thing, but I do recollect that in the member\u2019s question he related the issue of how the Prime Minister could say what he did, given that they stayed here only 5 days on average. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228ed0fdbe2e847f5abf7347eba713a9c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. We can be as obtuse as we like about this, but the fact is that my question wants to know how a Minister can argue that there are health and good-character checks when there are not, under the rules, any such requirements at all for people who stay less than 6 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022575fbf78f11044d987621376d8bed56b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member feels aggrieved, I will invite him to repeat his\u2014was that exactly the question he asked? I invite him to repeat it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b064d9e4564c4674b6f62a3ca5700303\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: This is my question: given that the average length of stay in New Zealand for Chinese tourists is 5 days, how can he continue to defend his Minister\u2019s claim in this House that they \u201Cstill will need to meet health and good-character checks.\u201D, when no such requirements are, at all, applied?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022605b3a21ac6440dfa30d4ecfa8487e55\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: As I said to the member, if he wants detailed questions about immigration, he needs to put those down for the Minister. But if that is what the Minister told the House, I have no reason to deny that it is incorrect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022133983571823483d962d253f620914ca\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: What confidence can you have in a Minister of Immigration who allows the Prime Minister to claim that one can be considered as a reasonably high net worth individual because they have travelled 40,000 kilometres, when a couple of trips back and forth between mainland China and Hong Kong gain such individuals frequent flyer status?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae4ab69acd244cf3a4b8d6159254a321\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have a global positioning system machine with me, so I cannot exactly tell you how far it is between mainland China and Hong Kong, but I suspect you might have to do a bit more than a couple of flights. But in principle there is quite a lot of logic in saying that if people can meet those frequent flyer sorts of tests that China Southern Airlines have, they will likely be reasonably high-class individuals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b261579f8864171b385fa63d804ac8f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call Brendan Horan. [Interruption] Order! I have called Brendan Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfdc1be2750f4076b6078861ffe340ae\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree that natural justice and due process are relevant in the administration of the Immigration Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224554062285654fc08afd644085b69bad\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do, and I think it is important to be consistent when one is applying that. I know that selection of people when they come to New Zealand for visas is difficult, and when 171,000 a year are coming, that is really challenging. But when it is one of eight, you would think you would get it right. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c87ffee77a754ace94601885ef5d38a7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The House will come to order. [Interruption] Order! The right honourable Prime Minister, both right honourable gentlemen, should desist. Thank you. The House will settle down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022894030f83cfb412eac4abdddfc4635f4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Prime Minister on 28 November tell Parliament that Immigration New Zealand started to undertake work on the China Southern Airlines special deal from 4 September 2012 when, first, our Immigration New Zealand senior managers had enjoyed the hospitality of Chinese counterparts for months before September, and, second, a ministerial section in the Immigration New Zealand weekly internal newspaper Visa Pak, dated 24 August 2012, confirmed that the China Southern Airlines deal would be effective from 1 September 2012, a full 4 days before the Prime Minister claimed the commencement of work on this issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222469f67e4a8e43d2a05b83db6031bd1f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Because that was the advice I received.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229ed828925b434c4196b8e5c110335a2a\u0022\u003EExchange Rate\u2014Forecasts, Effect on Export Sector, and Current Account Deficit\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00225523ca96191746f4bb595de9d7324f3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225523ca96191746f4bb595de9d7324f3c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Compared to 2012, does the Reserve Bank forecast the New Zealand dollar (as measured by the Trade Weighted Index) to strengthen or weaken in the next two years, and does he believe this will make New Zealand exporters more competitive or less competitive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00227bd2f6afb3d14c6da24f4ded11c236c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bd2f6afb3d14c6da24f4ded11c236c8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday the Reserve Bank recorded the trade-weighted index at 74.5. Its forecasts issued recently forecast that this will fall to 72.0 by March 2015. All other things being equal, the forecast fall in the exchange rate will increase the competitiveness of exporters. By comparison, the same index increased by 9 percent between March 2007 and March 2008, the period the member may recall.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f201bd0851c2407095e39f7c06ed0d05\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of that period, has he read reports of a politician in 2007 warning\u2014and I quote\u2014that \u201Cthe New Zealand economy could not sustain exchange rates at US74c.\u201D, and further saying that \u201Cit would lead to substantial job losses and closures.\u201D, and was that politician the then Leader of the Opposition, John Key?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0acbe27a31d4ce0acc2e2033d5658c6\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do, and that is exactly the point. Fortunately, the National Government took over the economic levers in late 2008. Since then we have focused relentlessly on the competitiveness of our businesses and undoing the damage of the previous Government, and that is why our exporters have sustained a higher exchange rate. They have shown great resilience over the last few years, and with the Government\u2019s continued backing their performance will continue to improve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a853cfcd0774612badfe1de796b25a3\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: If it is all going so well, why do the Reserve Bank, Treasury, and various economic forecasters show our current account deficit getting worse?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c8371d34ef742f6a541783df14649b4\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Compared with the period 2006 to 2008, when the current account deficit was 8 percent or above\u2014that is, minus 8 percent or above\u2014the forecasts now show it peaking at around 5.5 or 6 percent, which is a considerable improvement. But there is no doubt, and where we do agree with the member, that the relatively high exchange rate is making it more difficult for this economy to rebalance more towards exports and away from domestic consumption. Our response to that is to focus on the competitiveness of our businesses. Every time we try to do something to make it easier for businesses to employ people, the Opposition opposes it because, fundamentally, it is against growth\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dceba6bcd61344a1bb9fb5694cf2b1f6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f8e5979c78b401b85ce2e5ed46f96d1\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: How does he propose to reduce our current account deficit when, because of the overvalued currency, exporting is forecast to get even harder, resulting in even more job losses, and imports are forecast to become even cheaper, harming our local industries, yet monetary policy conditions continue to be myopically focused primarily on inflation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022781bdb82a299407db2ebb41787a2f32c\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, the monetary policy conditions have been loosening somewhat because our banks are finding that the costs of raising money on the international market are dropping, and this is being reflected in mortgage interest rates continuing to drop to the lowest levels that they have been at in 50 years. New Zealanders who go and borrow money today are paying less than they have at any time in the last 50 years. But in respect of the current account deficit, if we could just lower it, we would, but, actually, we cannot. We are focusing on supporting our businesses to be competitive and assisting them to make the decision to employ another person, invest another dollar, and sell another product successfully in our exports markets. One thing we will not be doing is hiring more photocopiers to print money, which is the Opposition\u2019s policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277b07039ec924a07beb2d9bb0d88e53b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022014a77ad1cf7403989a3bf8fa45d9699\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on alternative proposals for managing the New Zealand dollar?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbfdceba8e68428185734c98c6183725\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen reports that the best way to deal with the challenges of the New Zealand economy is to print money because that looks easier than actually making our economy more competitive. We completely disagree with those reports. They come from the Greens-Labour Opposition, and I think it is what it regards as \u201Cnew thinking\u201D about how to manage an economy. We are totally opposed to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3cc12dc51ec4f3c85685ed22c29cf47\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that last answer, can the Minister point to any example where the Labour Party has called for the printing of money? Because I do not know of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f1af57e111b42e09c7e49c7efe1e936\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I am not responsible for that, but I can say that the senior\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222305d0c84b2840eca760f7cc754b0a4b\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The accusation was made in the last answer that the Labour Party had been doing exactly that, and I am asking him to clarify\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229da6408dd5a947fcb462e21aa76f63fc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I hear the member. I think, given what the Minister had said, the question was not unreasonable, because Ministers can be questioned on anything they include in their answer. The question was a straight question of the Minister: whether he had seen any evidence\u2014was it\u2014of the Labour Party arguing for the printing of money as part of economic policy. I would like the Minister, the Hon Bill English, to answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1b1d29e92444700938b379eba09b73b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: What I can say is that the senior economic spokesperson for the Opposition\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022541079f6e6234404903ffbe12d4e69c7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The Minister made a statement. He is being questioned on it. It is a straight question on it. He should answer it. The question is about whether or not the Minister had seen any evidence where the Labour Party had called for the printing of money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247661ae608c049dfb26ce4bd3224a10a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It may be the case that I have been confused between the senior economic spokesperson for the Opposition and the Labour Party finance spokesman, and I will concede it is possible that the Labour Party has not said that. What it has said is that it is breaking up the bipartisan consensus over monetary policy and it is going to go in a different direction. The Greens have said that that direction is printing money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b11d86f0ebe54303ac6fc08d0f30af29\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I gave members of the Opposition the chance to question the Minister on a matter that was important to them, and I do not think the interjections are actually that helpful and they will now stop. [Interruption] That is not helpful, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228985e2ff39df4b758beb0b483f05973f\u0022\u003EBusiness Growth Agenda\u2014Purpose and Building Natural Resources Progress Report\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022676e7bf2f7d546a7ac7c0b6dffd296e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022676e7bf2f7d546a7ac7c0b6dffd296e6\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Development: How is the Government encouraging the sustainable use of natural resources to support jobs and grow the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u00229abb2d239cf74e28b74983b231c0697f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229abb2d239cf74e28b74983b231c0697f\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has a comprehensive programme of initiatives to responsibly develop our natural resource - based industries and increase exports. These are detailed in the Government\u2019s Building Natural Resources Business Growth Agenda progress report released this morning. It sets out how New Zealand is building jobs and growth from sustainably using its natural resources. It contains 49 separate initiatives that the Government is working on. I have here an autographed copy of the report, should the acting Opposition economic development spokesperson share his predecessor\u2019s enthusiasm for receiving a personal copy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280754857e5334eddb71a4874ac44af54\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What natural resources initiatives is the Government working on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a0cf052c96d4d8c8045ea99f60c290e\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is focused on making progress in a number of key areas. I will list just a few, by way of example: investment in oil and gas exploration, which received a significant boost today with Minister Heatley\u2019s announcement of the award of the block offer 2012 exploration permits; we are making more changes to the Resource Management Act to speed up decision-making processes to give more investors more opportunities to invest; we are in the process of setting effective limits for water quality and quantity to provide more certainty to businesses; and we have given the green light to the investigation of the Wairarapa Water Use Project, which has the potential to irrigate an additional 30,000 to 50,000 hectares of land in that region and boost the area\u2019s GDP by around $400 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022698613a38f8f42b2a3b447850fb4bf7e\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What is the key goal of the Government\u2019s Business Growth Agenda?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211afdac0c26a4beba13b3d90eadc34be\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The goal of the Business Growth Agenda is to support New Zealand businesses to become more competitive and provide them with more opportunities to invest and grow so we can have more and higher-paying jobs for New Zealanders. We have undertaken a comprehensive programme of around 250 initiatives across interconnected portfolios to build a more productive and competitive economy. The Building Natural Resources report is the fifth progress report alongside others on export markets, innovation, skilled and safe workplaces, and infrastructure. The sixth report, Building Capital Markets, will be published early next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002203fa1b585df046078aec0be030905f5c\u0022\u003EChild Poverty\u2014Government Initiatives, Hospital Admissions, and Statistics on Outcomes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc16ff57454f4d97b8e46c9c3816d21e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc16ff57454f4d97b8e46c9c3816d21e\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Is he satisfied with the state of children\u2019s health in New Zealand; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u00220545d4d6ebf3459595452d1ad8641f19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220545d4d6ebf3459595452d1ad8641f19\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E For the great majority of New Zealand children, yes. But for some children in New Zealand, the state of their health does need to improve, and that is why the Government, despite tight times, has spent billions extra to support these children and their families. Twenty-eight thousand kids, at 148 schools, are part of the rheumatic fever programme, 93 percent of children aged 2 are now fully immunised, over 90 percent of children under 6 are now getting free doctors\u2019 visits, including after hours, and the Government has funded targeted additional Well Child visits. We have also received a number of new reports. We agree with some recommendations but not others, and we will be considering these over time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba6ae167f1d948dd8f3ee262079990dc\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Taking those statistics and figures that he likes to trot out into account, why have hospital admission rates for children with acute upper respiratory tract infections, viral infections, skin infections, dermatitis and eczema, and some vaccine-preventable diseases increased over the last 3 years, and what does he intend to do about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022592941b0efa34c8e80e75ab675ac1a4f\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, some causes of hospitalisation have increased, whereas others have decreased. But, overall, the latest report, I think the Children\u2019s Social Health Monitor, shows that we are having a reduction in those numbers of hospital presentations. The causes of those, of course, are quite multi-factorial.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f56154addf24e26b5eb79ffc1cc5005\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Why do admission rates for socioeconomically sensitive medical conditions remain much higher for Pacific children, and then for M\u0101ori children, than for European and other children, and what does he intend to do about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8d3df6bca9046a08aaded3ebc8b7052\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said, there are indications that those hospitalisations are now beginning to reduce. What is the Government doing? We are doing a number of things. We have grown the number of doctors and practices that provide free visits to children by 25 percent, where we now have 93 percent of New Zealand children able to go to primary care for free if they are under the age of 5. We have extended that to after hours. We are also investing $24 million in a rheumatic fever programme and, very important, a number of Government departments have contributed to the tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of homes that have benefited from the Government\u2019s home insulation programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc884a37ad0b4ac8bff362807c5cf947\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Why are rates of sudden unexpected death in infancy very unequally distributed, with rates for babies from the most deprived 20 percent being over six times higher than for babies from the least deprived 20 percent of areas, and over four times higher for M\u0101ori babies; and what does he intend to do about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ca5ab8bc09348619e6f11e82ff3bf39\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the Government is quite concerned about the rates of sudden unexpected death in infancy. The advice we have received is that there are two major interventions that could assist in reducing these numbers. One is reducing the prevalence of smoking, of which the Government has an unparalleled record of achievement. The second is in the area of providing safer sleeping spaces. Quite a lot of activity is happening around the country in that area, including 4,000 p\u0113pi-pods, which have been made available to new mothers around the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ef9b1bc167b49fabc0819390c715a91\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister have any specific plans to address in the next Budget unequal health outcomes arising from poverty; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a112fe0d8b248e2bbe813d724b68959\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: The member will have to wait until the next Budget to see those, but what I can tell the member is that in a series of Budgets this Government has invested in order to improve the health status of all New Zealand children. If I was to take, for example, immunisation, it was only 4 years ago that 67 percent of New Zealand\u2019s 2-year-olds were fully immunised, with a marked contrast between M\u0101ori, Pacific, and European. Through the funding and effort of this Government we have now closed that gap to where 93 percent of New Zealand children are fully immunised and Pacific children are, I think, now at 96 percent fully immunised. So we have closed the gap through focus and effort, and that is certainly the Government\u2019s record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221e70a5c54d5c42a0b0a11a41b99da2ed\u0022\u003EOil and Gas Exploration\u2014Permits Awarded for 2012 Block Offer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u00224cb57f3ce7ba4363b820faaba9b8829b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224cb57f3ce7ba4363b820faaba9b8829b\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: What recent announcement has he made about Block Offer 2012?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u002257f13c985c154840b6ef934125eb7c7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257f13c985c154840b6ef934125eb7c7e\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E This morning I had the pleasure of awarding 10 new exploration permits in the Taranaki, Pegasus, and Great South Basins following the success of Block Offer 2012. Strong interest in the permitting round proves that New Zealand is a key destination for both domestic and international investment in exploration, with bids from the Netherlands, Austria, Canada, the United States, Australia, and Japan alongside those from New Zealand companies. Responsible use of our abundant natural resources is a key plank in the Government\u2019s Business Growth Agenda. Realising the potential of our petroleum resources will benefit the whole country through the creation of both new jobs and income for the Government to help fund things like schools, roads, and hospitals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbea0610e19c4b69b58cd54720212477\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: What work will companies be undertaking as part of their exploration permit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263435985e36d473fb1605bcbff4ce94b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: The purpose of exploration is to find out more about the resources that are within each of the areas and whether they are of a magnitude worth extracting. If they are, then we can have a robust debate about the benefits and risks of accessing that resource. Exploration permits are awarded for 5 years. Most of the exploratory work is unobtrusive, such as desktop mapping and seismic and aeromagnetic surveys. Contingent on that and what these surveys show, some companies may drill exploratory wells.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c8fbb07f725f4ed1a7dafbfc8d0f9b8d\u0022\u003EFreshwater Management\u2014Reform\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00221786450fca3f4b5b9373f577d524e48f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221786450fca3f4b5b9373f577d524e48f\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: Does she agree with the New Zealand Freshwater Sciences Society in relation to freshwater that \u201Cfailure to act with decisiveness and urgency risks further environmental degradation and erosion of our international environmental reputation\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022244e7cd729dd4f999a887bed4887231a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022244e7cd729dd4f999a887bed4887231a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (Minister for Primary Industries)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for the Environment: The Minister agrees with the need to act decisively and urgently on improving the way we manage our freshwater resource here in New Zealand, and that is why this Government has made improving water quality a priority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cd5efb161244f8a9e423a61af7e7707\u0022\u003EEugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: When will she act decisively and urgently to introduce strong national standards and rules for clean water, so New Zealanders can safely swim in our rivers, or is it acceptable that more than 52 percent of river sites monitored for recreational water-quality are unsafe for swimming?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022996f83be17bf4007b194c9daae524c72\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is working very hard now on a substantial package of water reform that brings together many of the good reports from the Land and Water Forum. She hopes to have that work before Parliament early next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb878033459f42da8ada96c6ee8b1b10\u0022\u003EEugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: When 50 percent of sites on Wairarapa rivers that are monitored for recreational water-quality are unsafe to swim at, how does she propose to prevent more water pollution from intensive agriculture, which is subsidised by this Government without strong national standards for clean water?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b899bee4e7ba4e8db16ed9845f2abb14\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will have to wait until next year to see exactly how the Minister proposes to solve the water-quality issues in this country. But I do assure the member that this Government does treat it like a priority, unlike the previous Government, which established a programme of water inaction over 9 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af4abe7aee4641a0abcaa0e4d25b8b15\u0022\u003EEugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: What message has the Minister got for New Zealanders who want to enjoy a hot summer\u2019s day at their local river or lake but cannot go swimming, because, in the words of her ministry, \u201CThere are many freshwater swimming spots which should be avoided.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c440becf59e4d5898464d30e8ad59f5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister\u2019s message to all New Zealanders is following a decade of inaction by the previous Labour Government, supported by the Greens. This Government is absolutely focused on putting water quality and quantity at the top of its priority list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002223330e50ddf646f4afe5a5434d193138\u0022\u003EEarthquakes, Royal Commission Report\u2014Regulatory Environment for Building Industry\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022922c6fe2e28e4724be5220103ab45895\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022922c6fe2e28e4724be5220103ab45895\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Building and Construction: How quickly will he respond to the building performance, assessment and construction recommendations of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Building Failure caused by the Canterbury Earthquakes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u00223e774c9babcf42f79246d352e9c15561\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e774c9babcf42f79246d352e9c15561\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E As the Government said when it released the final parts of the royal commission\u2019s report, it expects to release a full response by early to mid next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022092a7ce059c2490bb8d0cbac3a854b41\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Can he assure the House that the regulatory system behind the building control system today would not allow a repeat of the sequence of events that ended in the tragedy of the CTV Building?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022079ff4e3ee674202b6b51b72d44852b2\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, indeed, I can assure the member. Some of it was under the Labour Government and some of those changes have been under the current National Government, where we have done full accreditation of things like the building consent authority, and from December next year building officials who work within those will actually need to be qualified to perform the work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022933daf5d565e43808b95cac3c3ba3bbe\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that specific concerns about poor seismic-resistant design were raised with him by the group of engineers who approached him in his electorate office in 2008, and will he now urgently review those concerns in light of the royal commission\u2019s findings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252b80ff75e3e4917a032b6bd98b6223b\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: I presume the member is talking about the individual John Scarry raising it with me. He raised concern about the entire engineering profession in New Zealand, and about poor standards across modern building practice. I have got a copy of notes from the things that he said at the time, and what was interesting is that the CTV Building was built back in 1986, a time Mr Scarry was not referring to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022197b570c4ac745ae9391cf55ddfebcf2\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that specific concerns about poor seismic-resistant design were raised with him by the group of engineers, which included Charles Clifton, associate professor of civil engineering and the structures group leader at the department of civil and environmental engineering, University of Auckland, and will he now review the concerns that were raised with him by the group of engineers, in light of the findings of the royal commission?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e039f0836744a12ac766a8b65e95b52\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: By my recollection of that meeting some many years ago there were three at it. They made the claim again on this morning\u2019s radio. Mr Scarry said two Prime Ministers\u2014that is, Helen Clark and John Key\u2014have both ignored him, and eight building and construction Ministers, which I presume is seven from Labour followed by me, have ignored him. He feels terribly ignored and the Institution of Professional Engineers New Zealand Inc. is ignoring him as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed7003f2310c4c18948d88a4f49ec45f\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that specific concerns about poor seismic-resistant design were raised with him in 2008, and will he now specifically review those concerns in light of the findings of the royal commission?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fab053cc49446999ec32d984e7c5cdd\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is very hard to recall the meeting. It was in an electorate office; it was not with officials. It was a couple of engineers: the two who have been mentioned plus one other. The general concern was across the entire engineering profession, that all the buildings that we were currently building were not up to standard, and I needed to do something. I have made it clear on a number of public occasions that if Mr Scarry can get the support of the engineering fraternity\u2014that is, the Institution of Professional Engineers, the Structural Engineering Society New Zealand, and a whole lot of other engineering associations\u2014and it backs his claim, which it does not, I will take it seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e44cf3e805284a32ab6eda25f8c9a7b3\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the fact that the royal commission report volumes 5 and 7 acknowledge that the regulatory system behind the building control standards is more lax now than it was in 1986, which was the point that was raised with him, and given the recommendations for improvement, will he now review those matters that were brought to his attention all those years ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3679144765d461e9ed3312b662643e8\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: All of the recommendations made by the royal commission will be looked at carefully and considered carefully, and then a final, considered view will be put by the Government. But I just do not accept that the current regime is more lax than it was back in 1986.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd79254af70e426084a9df77f51f9bdd\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an email that Charles Clifton\u2014whom I described in one of my questions\u2014emailed through to Radio New Zealand this morning after he heard people saying that the system today was nowhere near as dangerous as it was back then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2214dfc58d24c8ca754a00f025cb4a5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c7d682f795b241a798e47c0f3f48abde\u0022\u003EEarthquakes, Royal Commission Report\u2014Government Response\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u002230b8687046d44522a0fc8354cc71df83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230b8687046d44522a0fc8354cc71df83\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National\u2014Christchurch Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Building and Construction: What is the Government doing in response to the Canterbury Earthquakes Royal Commission\u2019s full report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u0022a631deb6afdb4cf7877f72594805bdee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a631deb6afdb4cf7877f72594805bdee\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday we released the final part of the report\u2014that is, volumes 5 to 7\u2014without a Government response, because we wanted the families who had lost loved ones in the earthquake to have access to the information as soon as possible. The full report was comprehensive\u2014more than 1,100 pages\u2014and contained 189 recommendations, including a number that will require policy and legislative changes. As I said before in answer to the previous question, we need to carefully consider the full report, and expect to issue a full and comprehensive official response early to mid next year. Lessons must be learnt from the Christchurch experience, and changes must be made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a90e8304bb664999a68bd4cae904d52a\u0022\u003ENicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: What changes is the Government proposing to improve the way we deal with earthquake-prone buildings in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c3e277de69e42b5aa7aa5070174b263\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: Last Friday the Government released a consultation document around earthquake-prone buildings. We are proposing to introduce a mandatory time frame and process to deal with earthquake-prone buildings. This will shorten the existing time frame from an average of 28 years to 15, which breaks down to 5 years of seismically assessing all buildings, and then 10 years post-assessment of strengthening or removing those buildings. I must stress that the proposals out for consultation are simply proposals at this stage, and no decisions have been made. I encourage all New Zealanders to have their say, as any decisions will affect a large number of New Zealanders and communities right across the country. This process is about ensuring we strike an acceptable balance between protecting people from serious harm and managing the economic implications of strengthening or actually removing the most vulnerable buildings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002282bda8438e6445708d57d3774e0013a6\u0022\u003EBroadband\u2014Wholesale Pricing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1f1ffdacfee4cd68766390f97e7defe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1f1ffdacfee4cd68766390f97e7defe\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ced21848fffd47ad98b0eaf816d2cbaa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ced21848fffd47ad98b0eaf816d2cbaa\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd3b95c02d9c44d0b350a6a36cd4b24a\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statements regarding the draft Commerce Commission recommendations for wholesale broadband pricing, that \u201Cin its current form it would be very problematic\u201D because \u201Cit substantially reduces the income of that company\u201D, referring to Chorus, the Crown-backed ultra-fast broadband network?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d5a00c2693c462f8b7db08c5abb746c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1e8d654c7bc497ea63f62cefe4399d0\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he want most New Zealand households to pay around $12 a month more for their phone and internet services than they otherwise would?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fbc0cbd36d64e6090e40d1275d95489\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, I would reject the proposition that they would be paying more. Secondly, I think it is important that New Zealand has a roll-out of ultra-fast broadband. Thirdly, it is quite correct that the Government has taken a very close look at that Commerce Commission ruling, which is an interim ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bf15c0589a74cf69978486433ed0361\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Does he believe that it is a fundamental principle of our telecommunications regulatory regime that the regulator is independent to carry out its role without interference or undue political influence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226a7d75f1a714356a3c13e8465efc271\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Of course. They are free to go about their work. The Government then is free to decide whether it wants to adopt that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221078f1cf53244b33aefec1c7e8e1f3d2\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Will he rule out legislation if the Commerce Commission comes back with a final decision that his Government does not agree with?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7833cadbcf64bdc96743cafbc6060bb\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Definitely not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224875368b384c417e97bcc93e4269e2c4\u0022\u003EVoting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002289ae22549451416c81379e8b53e856f1\u0022\u003ECorrection\u2014Alcohol Reform Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u002292addc98a33344ec9e1b9e30348f41d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292addc98a33344ec9e1b9e30348f41d4\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (Whip\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I seek the leave of the House to correct a vote cast by New Zealand First last week on Supplementary Order Paper 40 in the name of Iain Lees-Galloway during the Committee stage of the Alcohol Reform Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022442460874d414afd8cf6f3e86d899b35\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is no objection. The member may proceed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201d5d8ff3aa047a4b496dcf3296869b4\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART\u003C/span\u003E: The vote should read 7 votes in favour for Supplementary Order Paper 40.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fdba1b28c88c46c8bac8f14915c181c7\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022abd7ff6827c64a6c850a23010e84682d\u0022\u003EEarthquakes, Royal Commission Report\u2014Release\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002273a2b9ba447a4b7bba77ef602a138b8e\u0022\u003EChild Poverty\u2014Release of Children\u2019s Commissioner\u2019s Expert Advisory Group Report\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002267a34b23ba0b42a1a02ac9e138ff3e11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267a34b23ba0b42a1a02ac9e138ff3e11\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Honourable members, I have received a letter from the Hon Lianne Dalziel seeking to address under Standing Order 386 the royal commission report into Canterbury earthquakes. This is a particular case of recent occurrence involving the administrative responsibility of the Government. The test for whether a particular case of recent occurrence requires the immediate attention of the House is a high one. The royal commission\u2019s report is extensive and working through its recommendations will take some time. Although the member\u2019s letter refers to a decision to release a discussion document, this is not authenticated. The purpose of an urgent debate is to hold the Government accountable for its actions. Despite the matter\u2019s obvious importance, I do not think I would be justified in setting aside the business of the House at this time. The application is therefore declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI have also received a letter from the Hon Maryan Street seeking to debate under Standing Order 386 the release of the Children\u2019s Commissioner\u2019s expert advisory group\u2019s report Solutions to Child Poverty in New Zealand. This too is a particular case of recent occurrence involving the administrative responsibility of the Government. Although the Government has given its view on one of the recommendations, the report contains 77 others. Working through these will take time. There must be an element of urgency for a matter to take precedence over other business. The application is therefore also declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227a626b58f9604c5da3e02e65e820d39d\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2011/12 Financial Review) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002241cdf0b16383474c9786ffcceb479819\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00229727679e26324d5b9662fcbae17ad1b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229727679e26324d5b9662fcbae17ad1b9\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Appropriation (2011/12 Financial Review) Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bfa1f8af63a841ef83543b728e0ea5ee\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Appropriation (2011/12 Financial Review) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227a48b1a0aeed4f7798e231a54c8dfcb4\u0022\u003EResource Management Reform Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221ea143750fe74ab28fdc145c2d45a969\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u0022f485075db5744e29b68d117e6cff8800\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f485075db5744e29b68d117e6cff8800\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Resource Management Reform Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Local Government and Environment Committee to consider the bill. Resource management reform is a key part of the Government\u2019s Business Growth Agenda. New Zealand needs a resource management system that enables growth, provides good environmental outcomes, and is capable of adapting to changing values, pressures, and technology. In 2008 the National-led Government initiated a two-phase programme of reform of the resource management system. Phase one of that programme resulted in the Resource Management (Simplifying and Streamlining) Amendment Act 2009, which delivered a number of improvements to the operational efficiencies of Resource Management Act processes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EIn phase two we are introducing the current bill and are also working on a cohesive package of reforms for our freshwater and resource management systems, with public consultation on wider reform expected in the first half of next year. The Government\u2019s reform package is focused on delivering a system that answers communities\u2019 planning needs, enables growth and job creation, and provides strong environmental outcomes in a timely and cost-effective manner. While we are considering that broader package of reforms, there are, however, some issues we can and must address more quickly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe Resource Management Reform Bill 2012 provides 6-month limits on council processing of medium-sized consents, a one-off streamlined hearing process for the first Auckland Unitary Plan, a choice for major regional projects to be consented directly through the Environment Court, and enhanced requirements for councils to base their planning decisions on robust and thorough cost-benefit analysis. The costs, uncertainties, and delays of the current resource management system are affecting New Zealand jobs, infrastructure, and productivity, and they place an unfair burden on communities. They are causing frustrations for those wanting to progress important developments, including housing subdivisions, industrial developments, or infrastructure projects that collectively are worth hundreds of millions of dollars. It is also leaving communities with uncertainty and drawn-out battles for years on end, bringing with it significant cost. This bill delivers on National\u2019s commitment to introduce a 6-month time limit on council processing of notified consents. It will help give certainty to communities and developers by reducing the time for consents by about one-third, from the current average of 9 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EIn terms of the economics of delays, a 2007 estimate put the cost per day of a hypothetical $10 million project being delayed at $2,200, which for a 3-month delay could mean an additional $140,000 of unnecessary cost. This is not about changing the basis on which the final decision is reached, but about getting to the decision more quickly, to give certainty and to lessen the cost and time impact on everyone involved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe bill also proposes a simpler, direct referral path to the Environment Court for applicants of major regional projects, should they choose that route. The threshold for these projects would be smaller than nationally significant projects but still involve major investment. Councils would be required to permit the direct referral if the application meets certain criteria, unless there was a good reason not to. Exactly where the threshold should sit will be determined after a period of consultation and will be contained in regulation, to ensure that it can easily be updated to keep pace with cost pressures over time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe bill also includes a one-off hearing process to streamline and improve the development of Auckland Council\u2019s first Unitary Plan, while ensuring that Aucklanders will have comprehensive input and are assured of a high-quality independent review of the council plan. I am concerned that under existing law Auckland Council estimates that its first Unitary Plan could take up to 10 years to become operative. No one benefits from long, drawn-out, and expensive processes, during which time Auckland\u2019s development stagnates in a cloud of uncertainty. Auckland\u2019s economy is too important to New Zealand for us to wait up to a decade for the plan to be implemented. Auckland represents some of our most pressing housing affordability issues, and the council needs to be able to make changes to address this issue without long delays. The Unitary Plan developed by the council after enhanced consultation will be referred to a hearings panel appointed by me and the Minister of Conservation in consultation with the council and the independent M\u0101ori Statutory Board, to ensure that the consideration is properly independent. There will be the usual guidelines applied for making appointments, including a high degree of local knowledge, competency, and understanding of tikanga M\u0101ori. The process will involve all the dispute resolution options available in the Environment Court, and provide the board with wide discretion to control its processes to ensure that it is easily accessed and understood by all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EAfter considering the plan and hearing public submissions, the panel will deliver recommendations to the council. Those accepted will be immediately operative, subject to appeals only on points of law. Aucklanders will have full appeal rights to the Environment Court for any recommendations the council does not accept. The new process also requires a publicly available independent audit of the council\u2019s evaluation of the costs and benefits of major policy changes. Under this new process it is estimated that most, if not all, of the plan provisions will be operative in 3 years, instead of the 10 it may otherwise have taken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe bill also recognises that decisions made at local and regional level can have far-reaching effects on local jobs and growth. We need to make sure that elected councillors and hearing commissioners have all the information they need to inform their decisions, and that that information is public. Under this bill, councils will be required to undertake more robust cost-benefit analysis under section 32 of the Act, including considering how the local economy and jobs will be affected, before making major decisions on policy and planning. The bill requires the analysis to be proportionate to the size of the proposal, so that plans with major implications will need considerable and careful work, without burdening smaller plans with undue cost and effort. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThere are a number of other issues that the bill will address. These include extending access to the emergency provisions under the Resource Management Act to all lifeline utilities, and clarifying the intent of the 2009 Resource Management Act amendment that councils are not able to introduce blanket tree protection rules in their plans. The bill also makes some minor changes to how boards of inquiry make their decisions when considering nationally significant proposals, and amends Environment Court procedures so that all proceedings must explicitly promote timeliness and cost-effectiveness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EGood resource management should contribute to our future environmental and economic prosperity. This bill addresses some significant issues now, while further work on water and wider resource management reforms continues. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00222379ed84a0e3452ea7542eb53be561d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222379ed84a0e3452ea7542eb53be561d5\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Earlier, in question time today, the Prime Minister was reflecting on some of his upbringing. One of the things he did not discuss during that speech was the person whom he named as a child and then later in life as his political hero. That person was Sir Robert Muldoon. This legislation that is in front of us today owes an awful lot to Sir Robert Muldoon. It actually says in the regulatory impact statement for the Resource Management Reform Bill that the goal of this legislation is to provide \u201Cgreater central government direction on resource management \u2026\u201D\u2014greater central government direction on resource management. This is a continuation of this Government\u2019s centralisation of power and taking away of decision-making rights from local communities. It fits right alongside the Local Government Act changes that were before this House that centralised power. It says\u2014and Sir Robert Muldoon would be proud\u2014that this National Government knows best. It knows better than local communities about how they should look after their resources. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe saw it with the Local Government Act, we have seen it with Environment Canterbury, we have seen it with decisions about transport, and here in the Resource Management Reform Bill we once again see a Government determined to take power away from local communities\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226136cf37dec94089b5bed647b847aaab\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How does it do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234a05fa590974a5a880be311512d508f\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and bring it back to itself. Dr Smith asks me how it does that. Well, let us just have a look at that, shall we?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ea6702b049043419cf88f19c5716830\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why is 6 months too long?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226665e2af0fa74acfa3b25dbe7bb7d43b\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Let us just have a look at that, shall we? Let us have a look at clause 13 of the bill, which introduces an investment threshold. If a project or a consent is above a certain investment threshold, that will be directly referred to the Environment Court. Who is going to set that? Who is going to set the regulations for that? It is Ministers. Ministers will set the regulations. They will say what the level of an investment threshold is. It is not going to have anything to do with the local community and what it may want. That will come directly from Ministers. This investment threshold is an interesting one, because not only will it be set by regulation by Ministers but there is no attempt here to set any other kind of threshold. I do not know; in a Resource Management Act perhaps we might see a threshold of environmental impact that could be used. But, no, we do not have that; we simply have an investment threshold.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E It is very interesting to look at the regulatory impact statement\u2019s comments around this proposal, when it discussed the consultation on that. This is what the regulatory impact statement says: \u201CThere has been no departmental stakeholder or public consultation on the proposals outlined in this RIS. Most critically, there has been no consultation with the Courts to ensure that there is adequate capacity to deal with an increase in direct referrals. Inadequate Court capacity is a risk that would potentially mean that the proposal would not achieve its objective. \u2026 Without consultation,\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273cab16347054974a4cef25fcf9a6bde\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Potentially. Maybe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d16e2e133ca4cb3b337f9dac400da99\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014without consultation, Dr Smith\u2014\u201Cit is difficult to provide robust advice on the costs, benefits and risks of the two options.\u201D So Government members come to this House with a proposal that they have not even consulted on as to whether it is a good idea. They do not know whether the courts have got the capacity to do it, and they think it is fine just to take that power away from communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI want to mention the changes that Amy Adams glossed over, and these are the changes in clause 12, which amends section 76(4A)(a), which will prevent councils from protecting groups of trees. I find myself asking what the National Party has against trees. What brings those members to this House to separate trees out from any other kind of natural resource and say that local communities do not get to control what happens there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f68a92e3faa94247ab195f3ebd795a32\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238519f2d25fe4fe7b374239a067d763c\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, they do not, Dr Smith. What this does is it says to local communities that if they want to protect trees, it will be an individual tree notified in a plan\u2014an individual tree notified in a plan. That is as good as it gets\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225873dc751a29470da47c5f0caf01af5a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Or group.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220cba14d1a804b61ba05eca6c7682393\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or group, says Dr Smith, interjecting standing up when he should not be. A group of trees, actually, in this definition, is a line or a grove of trees in an adjacent area. Well, Dr Smith may or may not know it, but when councils and communities are looking at the protection of trees, they are actually looking beyond a line of trees adjacent to each other or an individual tree. What they are looking at is an overall plan for the kinds of trees and bush life that they want in their communities. Why should councils and local communities not be able to decide that a particular species of tree, or a particular type of tree, or trees of a certain height should be able to be protected? It is ridiculous. It will create a bureaucratic nightmare for councils, and that is deliberate. It is deliberately designed to make it more difficult to protect trees and easier to fell trees. That is the purpose of this. It goes directly against the Environment Court\u2019s ruling on this matter, and it, once again, is this National Government saying to local communities that \u201CWe know better than you do about the protection of trees. We know better than you do in your local community about how to manage your resources.\u201D It is, once again, Muldoonism on its way through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI also want to mention a couple of other matters where the Government has done this, and one of these is the changes around section 32 of the Act. Under section 32, as it currently is in the Act, an evaluation of a council\u2019s plan has to be undertaken. Well, the Government has now decided that that evaluation should focus on economic growth. That is what the Government has decided. That unbalances the inherent balance within the Act for sustainable development. It takes it away from sustainable development and says \u201CWe will prioritise economic development within sustainable development.\u201D That is the purpose of the Act\u2014sustainable development\u2014and this fundamentally unbalances that. But, once again, look at what the Government has brought to the House. The regulatory impact statement tells us that under the section 32 changes, costs will be high because a lack of experience with cost-benefit methodology exists in councils. It then goes on to benefits, where it says the benefits would be medium and that they are not quantifiable benefits anyway. Then it goes on to say that there are high risks associated with these changes. Once again, the Government comes to this House with a proposal where the costs are going to be higher, where it cannot quantify the benefits, and where the risks are high, and it expects this House to vote for that kind of change when we do not even know whether it will benefit the kinds of things the Minster for the Environment said she was interested in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThere is a range of other clauses that the Labour Party has concerns about. Clause 11 amends section 53 of the Act to allow the Minister to make changes to national policy statements without following the consultation process. Once again, there is one set of rules for the Government and one set of rules for everybody else. The Government is making changes because it thinks it knows what is right, rather than in a manner that is consistent with this particular piece of legislation. The other aspects of this bill my colleagues will cover in some more detail, but one in particular is the question around the fast-tracking process for the Auckland Unitary Plan. In principle, the Labour Party is happy to see a process where we get through the Auckland Unitary Plan in a quicker and more efficient way\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4a302440d614aeaa883b383ff174c0b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that\u2019s not Muldoonist?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e12f44596fd34e69a0aa78f2bcef6008\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but what is Muldoonist, Dr Smith, is that this Government, the National Government, is going to decide who is on the panel that hears this. Well, I have some suggestions. We have had leaked from the National Party the memo with the four people who are likely to be on that panel. It is going to be chaired by Paula Rebstock, obviously\u2014I mean, there is nobody else, is there? I think Tony O\u2019Brien is there, Peter Kiely is there, and Stephen McElrea is there. That is what we have come to expect from this National Government. It puts the cronies in place to oversee something like this. So it is all very well to say that, yes, the Government will fast-track this Auckland Unitary Plan, but it is going to be controlled, once again, by Ministers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party understands that there is room for more efficient and effective processes within resource management, but this bill is not that. This bill is once again a power grab by this Government. It is taking away the rights from local communities to make decisions that affect them. It is putting in place unbelievably silly rules around things like trees and separating them out, and once again trying to avoid the public having a fair say in all the consents that affect them. We would like to support a bill that reforms the Resource Management Act to make it more effective and more efficient. Unfortunately, we cannot support this bill, because it does not do that in a way that retains community representation or in a way that gives local communities the ability to make decisions about their own resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u00220c8a96ccb7a94570ac36dd705800abfb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c8a96ccb7a94570ac36dd705800abfb\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E In contrast to the previous speaker, Grant Robertson, I am very pleased to be supporting this bill, the Resource Management Reform Bill. We do need to see reform of the Resource Management Act, and we believe that these will be good reforms. National is absolutely committed to looking after our environment while encouraging economic growth. As Bluegreens we believe that good environmental practices underpin the prosperity of our nation, and that prudent and careful managing of our natural resources can and should go hand in hand with developing our economy. Improving the way that the Resource Management Act works is key to our Government\u2019s programme, and this bill is the second tranche in Resource Management Act reform. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThis bill has four distinct areas. The first is a focus on Auckland. It is a focus to streamline the planning process and to support the production of Auckland\u2019s first combined plan in a good length of time. The second is to improve the time efficiency and effectiveness of the consenting process for medium-sized projects and to provide for easier direct referral to the Environment Court for major regional projects. The third, and this is what Mr Robertson has been discussing, is to require a more robust process with stronger information requirements for council decision-making, particularly around the analysis in section 32 reports. Finally, the fourth is a series of minor and technical amendments. This work follows up on the significant Resource Management Act reform that was done in 2009, which actually took a lot of the time of the Local Government and Environment Committee, and we were very pleased to do that work. Despite the dire predictions from Labour, following on from the conspiracy theories of Mr Robertson, we have had very good responses from those 2009 amendments. We have been very pleased to see how those reforms have been received. There has been hardly any criticism at all, and there have been significant improvements in the quality and the timeliness of the consenting process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EAlso, we have seen the effectiveness of the national consenting provisions, or the Environmental Protection Authority consenting provisions, which have predicated some of this new work, and particularly in terms of the Waterview Connection decision-making. Everybody who was involved in that, regardless of whether or not they liked the decision, was pleased with the way the process worked out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EFinally, it was very good to see the creation of the Environmental Protection Authority, which came out of that legislation. Just last week the Local Government and Environment Committee reviewed the Environmental Protection Authority and discussed the establishment process and its first year of work, and was very pleased to see how well it was functioning. I believe that the establishment of the Environmental Protection Authority will be an important contributor to the effective management of our natural resources as we go forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EFollowing this bill there will be further amendments to the Resource Management Act to deal with planning, weak planning, unnecessary costs and delays, and to introduce freshwater reforms based on the recommendations of the Land and Water Forum. This, of course, is particularly important legislation, and New Zealanders are keen to see new ways of managing our water resources. Everyone in this House understands the importance of getting this Resource Management Act legislation right, and the Local Government and Environment Committee looks forward to working on this bill, and looks forward to the submissions process. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc5641295e68409199a62309fc48d697\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc5641295e68409199a62309fc48d697\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Labour\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Opposition will be opposing this bill, the Resource Management Reform Bill. This bill amends the Resource Management Act, makes a number of changes to the Resource Management Act process, and imposes a 6-month consent time frame for medium-sized projects. It is phase two of a series of Government reforms to the Resource Management Act, with more coming next year, so let us start there. We have already had the experience of this Government doing things in a piecemeal way, in an ad hoc way, and with a half-baked approach, and that is what we are facing yet again with this bill. Why does the Government not complete its work and bring to this House a comprehensive piece of legislation for us to consider? Bringing in piecemeal pieces of legislation is a waste of the House\u2019s time, and a waste of the time of the Local Government and Environment Committee, and means that those who want to submit to any bill that comes to this House have to do it two or three times, depending on how many times this Government decides it is going to bring in a bill that relates to the same topic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a480e32cf933413ea53c1547e987f7a6\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Well, how come Labour had three RMA bills? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9d940f1f80146b899f62168be7776fb\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: So I ask Nick Smith, who has probably been the author of this\u2014I doubt whether Amy Adams is the author of it; right behind this are the hands and the fingerprints of Nick Smith\u2014could he not have learnt from the Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Act 2012 that you do things based on evidence, that you do the job first, and then you bring the bill to this House? But, oh no, here we go again with a half-baked idea that has had very little consultation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI found the regulatory impact statement also very, very interesting. Remember the Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Bill? It had a very interesting regulatory impact statement. In fact, it ripped the Government apart in terms of saying how poor its consultation had been, how rushed it had been, how it had not considered all the options because there was not time, and that there was no quantitative evidence to back up some of the claims that Nick Smith had made. So what does the regulatory impact statement say on this bill? It says this: \u201CGiven the nature of the issues covered in this policy process, accurate quantification of the size of problems, and the size of impacts has not been feasible across all options analysis. It is difficult to quantify the scale of costs reduction resulting from the proposals in this paper as they impact on a broad spectrum of business community and a mix of direct and associated holding costs.\u201D In other words, the work has not been done, and the regulatory impact statement is pointing this out. It has not been feasible to look across all the options, so why not wait, get the evidence, and do the work before introducing a bill? But, no, once again, this Government rushes headlong into legislation before it has thought it through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EMy colleague Grant Robertson pointed out the Government\u2019s consultation processes. Well, it did a little bit of consultation in 2009; then it looks like it put it on the shelf and went away and forgot about it. There has been very little consultation since 2009. In fact, the regulatory impact statement says: \u201CNo subsequent consultation has been undertaken, including with the Environment Court in relation to capacity to implement proposed changes.\u201D Well, would you not think you would go and talk to the Environment Court and ask them: \u201CWill you be able to handle the cases we think will be coming through?\u201D Would that not be a logical question? Would it not be your first question, because is this Resource Management Reform Bill not all about unblocking roadblocks\u2014unblocking roadblocks? So what do Government members do? They put in place a bill and they do not consult the Environment Court and say: \u201CHey, can you manage this?\u201D. So where is the next roadblock? It is likely to be at the Environment Court. So what a fundamental error this is by this Government on this bill to not do a simple bit of consultation before it rushed this bill. Two days before the House rises, one more day of Parliament, and it had to rush it in. It could not wait until next year to ask the Environment Court what it thought about it. That is what the regulatory impact statement says. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThis bill is a power grab by this Government, and it is also, once again, taking away decisions from local communities. I believe it is an attack on local democracy, because we now see an emerging pattern in the 4 years of this Government. We have seen it with the Environment Canterbury (Temporary Commissioners and Improved Water Management) Bill where the Government took away the right of local people to have a vote on their regional councils, with spurious evidence and spurious argument. Everybody who submitted to that select committee knew it was spurious argument that was being used, including the commissioners themselves. Then we had the Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Bill, which, once again, reduced the ability for local communities to have a local say. So this is just yet another example of this Government\u2019s disregard for local communities and for democracy at a local level. We need a Government that works from the grassroots up, not the Beehive down, but that is all that we have had to date from this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI have a series of questions to put to the Government. I would like some answers, and I hope we get them at the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210504ee3d06d4410a219cbf1d7c18b7d\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t hold your breath.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca005fc47c5a454a8e8100f5d3d25d01\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I will not hold my breath. But what is the estimated cost to local government of the Resource Management Reform Bill 2012? I want to see the estimated costs. Has the work been done, Dr Smith, on what the cost will be to local government? Having slagged off local government up and down New Zealand\u2014having slagged them off because they are putting up their rates and increasing their debt\u2014once again here is the Government imposing on local government. So what is the cost? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dcb5cc17ad1484f92493d226fb0105b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll save them money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c544bfb7cda8435f9d0f962a1358b789\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: That is not what local government believes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc2ea6f0c0254bf2a2a43e9d18a16d10\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll save the Auckland Council money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5bd0bcc2ee14dd18a225a3df3b5b70c\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: That is not what Auckland Council believes. So if it is saving the Government money, put the costings on the table. Let us see the costings. I will be asking for them at the select committee. Have the costings been done by the Department of Internal Affairs and the Ministry for the Environment? Have they even been done? Where are they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2f3edd27ac54514826f861c04ef6f9a\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Would you trust them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2809d5a46c944d0aa4baf082e96f4d0\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: No, you would not trust Government members with the costings because, obviously, this is an agenda they want to push forward and to hell with the consequences. I want to know what consultation has been undertaken with the Auckland Council on the impact of the Resource Management Reform Bill on its Unitary Plan, and in what way will it assist it. Is the council happy with what is being proposed in this bill? Have the Auckland Council Mayor and councillors said that they are happy with the proposals in this bill? After all, we are told by Amy Adams that this is to help Auckland. Well, are they happy? Give us some feedback on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWe also want to know why the hearing panels under the Resource Management Reform Bill are going to be chosen by the Government. How can that be open and transparent? Why are Government members not allowing local people to make that decision? Are they going to allow a local representative on the hearing panel? I think the answer is no. I think Grant Robertson got it right when he said there has already been a list put out as to who is likely to be on any hearing panel: chaired by Paula Rebstock\u2014the person who gets every chair available\u2014with Stephen McElrea, Tony O\u2019Brien, and Peter Kiely. So where is the local community representative on that hearing panel? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI also want to know what consultation has taken place with the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, Pita Sharples, on tikanga knowledge and M\u0101ori representation on the Resource Management Reform Bill 2012. Was he happy with the decisions that have been made as they affect M\u0101ori in terms of this bill? I would like to see the information provided by Dr Sharples on what he thinks about this bill. I suspect he is not very happy about it at all. What delays, if any, are estimated for local government by this bill? What delays will they face, and what will be the costs to them? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI also want to know what will be the impact\u2014finally, the impact\u2014of this bill on the recently passed Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Bill, because the four well-beings have been removed from the Local Government Act, and one of them was economic well-being, the others being environmental, cultural, and social. Those well-beings are not allowed to be considered now, but this bill says that there must be an overriding consideration for the economic development in an area. So how does it go when there is one thing that takes away the economic well-being, against this bill saying that people now need to consider it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThis bill is, once again, a dog\u2019s breakfast. The Government ought to have waited and got it right, but it rushed headlong into a bill that I think is going to cause more problems than it is worth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00226147390f2b304597a45403c9e519d378\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226147390f2b304597a45403c9e519d378\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me no pleasure to speak on the Resource Management Reform Bill, because it is one of three bills this year that have done little credit to New Zealand\u2019s once highly regarded environmental management framework. At the start of the year we had the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill, with its very weak purpose, which has a framework that is now allowing Ministers to contemplate allowing deep-sea oil exploration as a permitted activity. Then we had changes to the Crown Minerals Act to allow the Minister of Energy and Resources, as well as the Minister of Conservation, to make decisions on any applications to mine on conservation land\u2014and we know who will win that arm wrestle. And now we have got this bill. It is another attack by National on the Resource Management Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWhen the Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey Palmer, and then the Hon Simon Upton, shepherded the principal Act through this Parliament more than 20 years ago, the legislation was regarded as world-leading. It had been informed by extensive public consultation and discussion about the principles in the Act and the whole framework of the Act. And it was legislation that was consistent with New Zealand\u2019s international reputation for being clean and green and committed to the careful stewardship of nature and to development that met the needs of present generations without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their needs. It was enduring partly because of that bipartisan involvement and commitment to the Act. That image has been shattered. This year we cannot even look after the children of the current generation, without even thinking about future generations. The Government has abandoned its commitment to the Kyoto Protocol, we have attracted criticism from United Nations officials, and we have got a Government that is not committed to giving integrity to our \u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D brand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EOn this bill there has been absolutely no effort by the Government to develop any cross-party commitment to the changes that may be needed to the Resource Management Act\u2014none of the extensive public consultation that we saw on the principal Act\u2014and so we risk zigzag policy-making where the next Government undoes much of the work of its predecessor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo as a key part of the whole system of managing our natural resources and our environment, the Resource Management Act should not be an ideological football, but in this bill it is. We all benefit from clean rivers, from compact cities, from ground water that is not contaminated by nitrates, from sewage that is well treated and does not go into rivers, and from coastlines that inspire us with their natural beauty rather than being overshadowed by big, pretentious holiday homes, yet it is this sort of development that this bill will allow\u2014development that cuts across that \u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D image. It is a shameful bill that the Green Party will be opposing, because it epitomises the National Government\u2019s position to develop at all costs and to hell with the environment, and to go after the dollars now, with no thought for the consequences that that has for the quality of life for others, or the quality of nature. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt is a selfish bill to promote selfish development, and we are opposing it for a number of reasons. One of those is that it promotes speedy decisions rather than quality decisions. It is all about central government in Wellington getting involved in the minutiae of decision making, whether it is in Auckland or whether it is the timetable for councils to consider consents. When you have a 6-month time limit on councils being able to consider and process consents, regardless of the scale and complexity of the application, that cuts across the community\u2019s ability to get involved. Any developer can spend years working up an application and put it into council, and then the community gets a month, effectively, to be able to understand the development and make submissions on it. So that will lead to quick decisions, yes, but not ones that are good quality, not ones that recognise the scope of environmental impacts. Again, another way the bill reduces public participation is that it sets a limit of 20 working days on the public submission period, again regardless of the scale of the proposal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe bill restricts access to justice, to the Environment Court, because\u2014and this, I think, is a direct attack on NGOs, like the Royal Forest and Bird Protection Society, which have had to pick up the baton because we do not have statutory agencies such as the Department of Conservation engaging in the level of resource management advocacy that they used to\u2014it limits interested parties status in any Environment Court appeal to those that are directly affected by the application. What that means is that if someone from Whitewater NZ has an interest in a river but may not kayak that river herself, and there might be a future potential recreational value of the river, she potentially will not be allowed to get involved in any Environment Court appeals as an interested party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe bill is also bad because of the way in which it makes it much more difficult for councils such as that of Manawat\u016B to introduce regulation to control intensive land uses such as intensive agriculture. This is because the changes to the section 32 analysis bring into play assessments of economic growth anticipated to cease if the council introduces rules controlling, for example, nutrient leaching or stocking numbers in sensitive catchments. This means that the council now has to have particular regard to that economic impact. This follows on from Minister Carter\u2019s criticisms of the Manawat\u016B plan for introducing rules that seek to protect our rivers, to clean up our rivers, and put rules in place to do that. This is why the Government is targeting councils that do that by making it very difficult to put in place regulation through the much more stringent section 32 requirements. Again, on the Auckland combined plan, the Minister mentioned consultation with the council about appointing the hearing panel for the Auckland combined plan, but there is no right for the Auckland Council to appoint the commissioners who will hear the submissions on its combined plan. Once again, it is control central\u2014this Government wanting to direct everything from Wellington. Is Auckland happy with that? I doubt it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAnd again, just like the Environment Canterbury legislation, the Government is seeking through the bill to restrict appeal rights. People will be able to appeal decisions on the Auckland combined plan to the Environment Court only if the council rejects the recommendations of the Government\u2019s stacked hearing panel. It cannot appeal to the court if the council upholds those recommendations. Again there is a very limited period\u201420 days, I think it is\u2014for the council to consider the hearing panel\u2019s recommendations. So we have got a very truncated process to make sure that the Government hearing panel on the Auckland combined plan comes up with the recommendations that the Government wants, and there is a very limited ability to challenge it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E So not only is the bill reducing the ability of the community to participate in resource consent decisions but also it is reducing the scrutiny that those decisions will get in the Environment Court by the restrictions on participation in appeals and the limitations, particularly in the Auckland Council process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo the Green Party will be strongly opposing the bill. The streamlining that the Government is talking about will result in poor decisions that have the fingerprints of Wellington all over them, rather than promoting local decision-making by communities and public participation, which was such a cornerstone of the Resource Management Act when it was introduced. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00226ceded48569649d2b467df34b8d53473\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ceded48569649d2b467df34b8d53473\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, I want to commend the Minister for the Environment, Amy Adams, for this bill, the Resource Management Reform Bill, which sensibly builds on National\u2019s first phase of changes to the Resource Management Act. One of the principal changes in this bill is to limit notified consents to being done within 6 months. Let me give members opposite a very practical example of why that change is needed. Right now in my community the Government is wanting to build a teen parent unit to give the opportunity for teenagers and their babies to be able to get a good-quality education. It is disgraceful\u2014disgraceful\u2014that a simple change to allow that to be built on the site of a primary school and an early childhood education centre not only requires a resource consent but also has been delayed by more than 6 months because of the Resource Management Act. Members opposite have the gall to get up in this House and to lecture us about child poverty, and yet we are trying to do something about it to resolve it in that way with bills like this, and they say no. My challenge to Eugenie Sage is this: how was the management of water in Canterbury helped by it taking 19 years to get a damned water plan? And I ask: how are the issues of Auckland helped by it taking 10 years to get a plan for developing our biggest city? We say that we can do better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EAlthough this bill is technical, it actually illustrates so aptly at the end of this parliamentary year the differences between this National Government and the members opposite. We on this side of the House are about making the Resource Management Act work more efficiently, so that we can build the infrastructure, so that we can have affordable homes, and so that we can build the industries and grow exports and jobs. Members opposite have made plain in their contributions on this bill that they stand for bureaucracy and procrastination\u2014bureaucracy and procrastination. You see, when they were in office, the number of late consents grew from 6,000 a year to 16,000 a year. What did they do? Absolutely nothing. And what did they do when it took years\u2014a decade, like the Whangamata marina\u2014to get a resource consent? They introduced three resource management amendment bills, and every one of them made the process more bureaucratic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo I am delighted that we are ending the political year on this Resource Management Reform Bill. It shows that National is walking the talk on making sure we have got modern infrastructure. It shows that National is walking the talk, and not just shedding crocodile tears, on the issue of affordable housing. It shows that National is walking the talk with businesses that actually have the capacity to grow exports and to grow jobs. This bill is actually a test at the end of the year. Are members in favour of jobs, exports, affordable housing, and growth? Opposition members are saying no. We are saying yes. We have got a plan, and we are delivering on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u0022027d542356cc4dd38785292e0c4653f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022027d542356cc4dd38785292e0c4653f6\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I am taking a call on behalf of New Zealand First on the Resource Management Reform Bill 2012. Can I just say that in this particular instance it is very clear that New Zealand First is the central party of politics in this country\u2014and we will be taking the central middle ground\u2014in that we see arguments on both sides. But in this instance we are prepared to support this bill through its first reading in order for the Resource Management Act to get a fair airing and a fair hearing, and for it to be reviewed in a proper manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EI think we would all agree\u2014and I do not think anyone would really dispute it\u2014that there have been some issues around New Zealand on occasion where the Resource Management Act has been brought into disrepute and there have been major problems as a result, and where a review of the Act certainly would see some improvements being made to it. I can recall being involved, for instance, in the Pak \u2019N Save Wairau Road supermarket instance, which had gone on for something like 18 years, and where one party, one of the major supermarket operators, took on the other supermarket operator\u2014there had been only two in the country\u2014and very much used the Resource Management Act to stop the Pak \u2019N Save supermarket going ahead. The supermarket operator was very much seen as a vexatious litigant and used all sorts of things like traffic issues and other issues\u2014even though its own supermarket was 5 kilometres away and had no bearing on the new Pak \u2019N Save whatsoever\u2014and all sorts of spurious arguments under the Resource Management Act to stop the competitor setting up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThere were many other examples. I sat as a Resource Management Act commissioner for 9 years, and we had similar problems when the Birkenhead Library was demolished, prior to getting resource consent, and then spent 2 or 3 years finally getting a resource consent to replace the library with another library, which seemed an odd situation. Likewise, getting the consent for the Albany Senior High School was a major undertaking, and, again, there were some very spurious arguments around that. At the end of the day they were met, but they did delay for several years the high school being built and added a huge amount of expense. At the end of the day, the community really wanted to find a way through it, but, again, it was very, very awkward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EI can also remember, with the Auckland Regional Council, when the North Shore City Council submitted consents for 64 water catchment areas on the North Shore. There were 64 different water catchments on the North Shore, and we were given only a 6-year consent. Even though it had cost $2 million for the application and it had taken our staff of the council more than a year to prepare the consent, we were then provided initially with only a 6-year consent. We said that when we were spending that sort of ratepayers\u2019 money\u2014$2 million\u2014and getting only a 6-year certainty of the resource consent, then that was very, very poor use of public money. We managed to convince the Auckland Regional Council to extend that period out considerably longer than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThese are the sorts of things that go on throughout New Zealand. They were only my personal experiences from the North Shore and within Auckland, but if you multiply that out around the country it is a very, very expensive process that can cost communities a great deal of money. We often refer to the Resource Management Act as the \u201Crich man\u2019s Act\u201D, and many people refer to it as the \u201Crich man\u2019s Act\u201D, because it usually meant that the party that had the deepest pockets, that could employ the most expensive consultants, and that could stretch it out the longest would often try to win the argument simply by investing more and more money into the particular problem. What we did find in many instances was that, of course, communities suffered, because often it was community groups, conservation groups\u2014the Royal Forest and Bird Protection Society, or whatever\u2014that under the Resource Management Act were being put to a huge amount of expense to try to take on some various situations that were very, very costly for communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EAgain, I can recall the Long Bay development plan, which took a number of years. The locals had to raise many, many hundreds of thousands of dollars to fight the development at Long Bay. Again, it seemed that the whole process was an incredibly long and litigious one, which perhaps had it been able to be sped up, and had heads been able to be knocked together a little bit more speedily, it would have saved everybody a huge amount of grief and money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EHaving said that, we also agree that the Auckland Plan is a major concern to Auckland. It is necessary to get the Auckland Plan in place, and there are merits in speeding up that process so that Auckland can get on with one plan. We are supportive of that, but we certainly do have some concerns. We would hope that the hearings that are held by appointed commissioners are held in a full and frank manner and certainly with good intent. We certainly would not want the plan to be controlled from Wellington, for a controlled outcome. We certainly want to ensure that Auckland gets the best results from that. From speaking with different Auckland Council members, most of them are very supportive of the idea of getting this bill through so that they can get on with the Auckland Plan. If Auckland is to succeed in its economic growth, then it certainly does need that to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003ELikewise, when you read in this bill that there is a need to consider regional economic impact and opportunity costs, and costs and benefits, as a result of this bill, again, there are opportunities in communities around New Zealand. If the Resource Management Act can be fine-tuned and can be improved in some areas, then it certainly could help economic and regional development around the country by doing so. However, having said that, as I said at the beginning, we are the central party of New Zealand politics, which sees both the good and the bad, and we do have some concerns about the proposal that the hearing applications for water conservation orders under the Resource Management Act will not be subject to the Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act 1987. That is somewhat concerning to us because we do feel that anything to do with water, water rights, or applications for water should be a very transparent and open public process. The public have a right to know what is being heard and the finding of that, and the background to any hearings. So we will be raising that particular aspect with the Government, because we believe that it should be open and transparent and that there should not be smoke and mirrors when it comes to those sorts of issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EBut, overall, we will support this bill through. We will raise some issues with the Government, in terms of the Resource Management Act. It is an important piece of legislation for New Zealand. It is a piece of legislation that does safeguard our environment and safeguard our communities to a great extent. But it has become at times very unwieldy and expensive, and perhaps has been an undue cost on many communities in New Zealand that are trying to move ahead. That having been said, if we can find some middle ground, if we can find some areas where it can be modified to everyone\u2019s satisfaction, including those who are very, very strong in terms of conservation and the environment, if we can find ways through to improve it overall, then I think most New Zealanders would support that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c76d0c16c0b546a5802a4518210b09b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c76d0c16c0b546a5802a4518210b09b9\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased and will be very interested in the Local Government and Environment Committee\u2019s discussion on section 32 of the Resource Management Reform Bill, which deals with considerations, inserted by clause 69. There has been identified a lack of direction in the consideration provisions of section 32. I am particularly mindful of the Otago Regional Council\u2019s water plan, which is going to have a large impact on water users throughout the Otago Regional Council\u2019s area, and the deficiencies that were identified in the section 32 report associated with that plan, which had no numbers associated with it. So I am very keen to see this bill progress through the House so that we can get some more robust consideration of the economic impacts. I look forward to the select committee\u2019s consideration. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbc3b1eb794b46ca93ce149e915266f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbc3b1eb794b46ca93ce149e915266f9\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E This bill, the Resource Management Reform Bill, represents the latest instalment in this Government\u2019s slide into Muldoonism, and it is the latest exhibit, really, in a long line that we have seen under this National-led Government. You see, it never saw a power exercised by a local council in this country that it did not want to take for itself. It never saw a council that could not have been improved by the appointment of commissioners and the sacking of elected representatives. It is a long litany and it bears repeating, I think. It goes back to the establishment of the Auckland super-city, where it overrode the democratic rights of Aucklanders to have a vote on the super-city. It took away that right, and it proceeded to corporatise 75 percent of local government and take all those operations and activities out of the reach of ordinary citizens and away from the normal democratic process. We saw it with the sacking of Environment Canterbury because National\u2019s corporate dairy-farming mates were not getting quite enough free irrigation consents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWe saw it with the systematic stripping away of local government rights enjoyed by communities around this country, in two bits of legislation\u2014most recently, the abolition of the four well-beings, the narrowing of the purpose statement of local government, and the taking away of all sorts of powers that communities have enjoyed for many years, including the right to vote on amalgamations. We have seen it in the way that this Government has spent most of the transport budget on big, new State highway projects, forcing local communities to pay more and more for their local roads or let them fall into disrepair. The latest land transport management legislation also very explicitly takes away powers from regional councils and gives them, through the Government policy statement, to Cabinet to determine transport funding priorities. So there is a pattern here, and we have seen it in one piece of legislation after another with this Government. It is centralising more and more decision-making power in the executive arm of Government, and away from local government and away from local communities. That is what is going on here. That is the context in which we have to see this Resource Management Reform Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI want to give three examples of this Muldoonist tendency to centralisation. The first is the issue of blanket tree protections. That is something that is worth looking at. It is worth a little bit of scrutiny, I think, the way this Government is overriding the rights of local communities. It is overriding rulings that the Environment Court has made and is trying to make it much harder, more expensive, and more bureaucratic for local communities to use the provisions of the Resource Management Act to protect trees. Secondly, let us look at the Auckland plan, because I think that is another very interesting case study in this Government\u2019s Muldoonism and its complete inability to resist taking powers for itself, and we will look at that in a bit of detail. Then, thirdly, there are a number of other measures in this bill. They are a grab bag of measures that repeat this tendency that is on display so often with this Government to take powers away from local communities and invest them in central government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe spiritual godfather of this bill could be said to be Ronald Reagan, the former US President, who is often said to have said that \u201COnce you\u2019ve seen one redwood tree, you\u2019ve seen them all.\u201D In fact, that is very unkind to Ronald Reagan, because he has been misquoted so many times. In fact, what Ronald Reagan said was \u201CA tree\u2019s a tree. How many more to you have to look at?\u201D, and that pretty much sums up this Government\u2019s attitudes to the urban forest that Aucklanders treasure so much. This bill could be known as Nick Smith\u2019s revenge\u2014it is the remaking of the chainsaw massacre of 2009, when, in a very ham-fisted way, Nick Smith tried to take away from local councils the ability to use blanket protection measures for trees by deeming that trees in a certain area were to be protected, and, if they were to be severely pruned or cut down, then the owner would need a resource consent. So what Nick Smith tried to do back in 2009 was, basically, to dictate that councils would have to individually name particular trees that they wanted to save. The Environment Court looked at this and said \u201CWhat a load of nonsense.\u201D, and said that it was going to allow, in the North Shore and Waitakere legacy plans, councils to basically say that trees in a certain area could be covered by blanket tree protection rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ESo the provisions in this bill on trees in section 76(4A), in clause 12, are deliberately about trying to overturn the Environment Court ruling and, basically, make it virtually impossible for councils to protect their trees. They either have to name specific trees or a grove or a line of trees in a property or adjacent properties. The effect of that is that it will become humongously expensive for councils to protect trees. They will no longer be allowed to protect trees of a certain species or of a certain size; they are going to have to name certain trees or a grove or a line. This is hugely ironic. This is the Government that rails against councils about how they are spending too much money. It accuses them of being bureaucratic, and then it is imposing a cost of what will undoubtedly be millions of dollars in the case of the Auckland Council, if it wants seriously to protect the trees in the leafy suburbs and in the Waitakere Ranges, for example. In places like Titirangi and Laingholm, the communities there have about 40 percent higher rainfall than anywhere else in the rest of Auckland. There is a real problem with instability and erosion. The trees in places like that\u2014in the Waitakere Ranges\u2014are basically holding up the roads and the houses, and if we see the deforestation that many people predict as a result of this bill, then the blame will lie fairly and squarely on the shoulders of this National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe other thing that is worth noting, as well as all the aesthetic and quality-of-life benefits of the urban forest in Auckland, is that trees have a huge benefit for stormwater. Every tree, scientists calculate, treats 16 cubic metres of stormwater. If we see deforestation in parts of west Auckland, for example, of any significant scale, then there will be a huge negative impact on stormwater, and erosion. So there is a terrible irony in this, in that the same National Government that rails against councils, accuses them of overspending, and accuses them of being bureaucratic is actually imposing massive costs on local government or forcing it into a situation where it will simply be unable to protect its urban forest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI want to move on to the issue of Auckland, because Labour has signalled that we are willing to give qualified support to the Auckland Council for the proposal that the Auckland Council took to the Government for a fast-tracked process for the Auckland Unitary Plan. Many of us are very sympathetic to the Auckland Council\u2019s argument that the bedding-in of the Unitary Plan should not be allowed to take 5, 6, 7, or 8 years, but the support is qualified because it is unclear to us, as it is to many commentators, that this process will actually deliver a shortened time frame and a good result. But the thing that is really interesting about this is that the Government could not resist taking control of the process. So what has it done? It has said \u201COK, we are going to appoint the hearings panel that is the one-stop-shop for considering the Auckland Unitary Plan.\u201D Paula Rebstock, Peter Kiely, Stephen McElrea, Tony O\u2019Brien\u2014fine, upstanding New Zealanders, and true friends of the National Party. People like this will be making the decisions, because this Government has hijacked Auckland\u2019s Unitary Plan process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIt is a plan that belongs to Aucklanders. The bill for it will be paid for by Aucklanders, but this National Government could not resist putting its sticky fingers in the cookie jar and hijacking the Unitary Plan process that should belong to the people of Auckland. It is typical. It follows on an established pattern of hostility that this Government has towards Auckland. It cannot stand Mayor Len Brown\u2019s agenda for public transport in Auckland. It cannot stand the agenda for a quality, compact city. It can barely disguise its contempt for it, and that is why it is insisting on putting its own people into a hearings panel, so that it can exercise control and take it away from the people of Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022663ae68785b141ec8784dad9a0ce6f5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022663ae68785b141ec8784dad9a0ce6f5b\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak on the Resource Management Reform Bill. The first thing I want to say is that we have a very good record in terms of local government and resource management reform. We have, under the first phase of resource management reform, reduced late consents from 31 percent to 5 percent. A lot of our reforms focus on reducing cost to businesses, households, and local government. But what I am absolutely shocked about is when the Labour Party stands up in this House today and says it cares about Auckland and it cares about housing affordability\u2014the two key provisions in this bill that will do something for the young people of Auckland in terms of housing affordability are, firstly, 6-month consenting for medium-sized projects, which are developments in Auckland, and, secondly, the Unitary Plan process so that we do not have 10 years of trying to actually consent some of these major developments\u2014and the Labour Party opposes the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ESo my message to Aucklanders is that this bill is crucial in terms of housing affordability for Auckland. I am gobsmacked that the Labour Party is opposing this. The two key provisions around consenting for major developments but also the Auckland plan process, which Len Brown asked us for\u2014he is not a Muldoonist person, as Mr Twyford has said. He asked us for this process. We are delivering this for Auckland\u2014two key things that will help young Aucklanders get into housing\u2014and it is being opposed by the Labour Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThis comes in a long line of opposition to good reform in Auckland. The Auckland local government reform was widely held up at our local government hearings recently as something that has been successful. It has seen a reduction in water costs in our city. It has seen a major reduction in regulations in our city. This is about getting Aucklanders into houses in a much more affordable way, and I am gobsmacked that the Labour Party is opposing this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002286373c4e186d452b99ed76f8b7376d77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286373c4e186d452b99ed76f8b7376d77\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A split call\u2014Moana Mackey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u002255e0c528189d4cac9de216f8f2f3803a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255e0c528189d4cac9de216f8f2f3803a\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Well, Nikki Kaye might be gobsmacked that we are opposing this bill, the Resource Management Reform Bill, but if she had actually listened to the speeches by my colleagues, she would understand why this bill will not do any of the things that she has just outlined. In fact, the Labour Party put together a very good housing policy that will make a difference and that will build 100,000 houses. It is a very comprehensive policy\u2014a very comprehensive policy. That is the kind of thing we need to see out of a Government that is taking affordable housing seriously, not gutting the Resource Management Act, taking protections away from trees, and putting in place time frames. We are going to be looking at that 6-month time frame very carefully at the Local Government and Environment Committee. I remember that when the Hon Dr Nick Smith was in Opposition he put forward a member\u2019s bill to put time restrictions on Resource Management Act consents. Local government was horribly opposed to it, because often there are many good reasons why it cannot do a consent within a prescribed time period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EBut what we are seeing in this bill overall\u2014and this is why Labour is opposing it\u2014is a power grab again. That is what we saw in recent weeks with the local government legislation, and that is what we are seeing here today. This is taking away more power from the grassroots in New Zealand. We are going to have more decisions made not from the grassroots up but from the Beehive down. That is the modus operandi of this National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI do not know why the National Party does not trust local government. It is democratically elected, yet what we have seen consistently from this National Government since it was elected are moves to take away the right for people in Canterbury to elect their own regional council. And when the Hon Dr Nick Smith, who was a Minister at the time, was asked why he thought that was appropriate\u2014and people in Canterbury still are not allowed to elect their regional council\u2014he said that it was because he was worried about the outcome of the election. Well, that is called democracy. That is called democracy. Unfortunately, democracy means that the people\u2019s will is going to determine the decisions that are going to be made in future, and Governments have to roll with the punches and live with that. It is simply unbelievable that a Minister of Local Government would say: \u201CWell, I\u2019m going to take away the rights of people to elect their regional council because I don\u2019t like the decisions that that democratically elected regional council has been making on a decision as important as water allocation in the Canterbury Plains.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003ESo then we had the Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Bill (No 2) that, again, strips away power from local authorities. Basically, it tells them that they are in charge of roads, rates, and rubbish, and nothing else. Anyone who has had anything to do with local government knows that that simply is not the case. Local government is a crucial partner with central government in future economic development well-being, environmental well-being, social well-being, and cultural well-being. But National has taken those well-beings out, and said to local government: \u201CWe\u2019re going to put you in a position where legally now you could be very easily challenged, because before it was clear that that was your mandate.\u201D I look at the Ashburton District Council, which put together health services for the people of R\u0101kaia because there were none there. Without local government, those people would not have access to health services. That fell under the mandate of the four well-beings. Well, that is gone now. That could be legally challenged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003ESo how is all this about reducing costs to local government when all we are doing is increasing uncertainty, which, by its very nature, will result in legal challenges and will increase costs to local government and to ratepayers? And, lo and behold, here we come to the first Resource Management Reform Bill. It is one of two that we have been expecting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EAgain, the changes made under the guise of reducing costs and streamlining are not about reducing costs and streamlining; they are about limiting public consultation, limiting community involvement in the decisions that affect them directly, and giving more power to central government and, in particular, to the Minister. I could not believe it. The Hon Dr Smith basically said that this was because he wanted a teen parent unit in Nelson. This is why we are having to gut the Resource Management Act, because he wanted a teen parent unit in Nelson. We have got a great one in Gisborne, and it happened with the Resource Management Act. There are teen parent units all around the country that manage to survive the horrific Resource Management Act process. I think that it is extraordinary that that was a reason given by the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to come to the issue of trees in Auckland. I do not pretend to understand the depth of feeling surrounding trees in Auckland. I guess it is kind of like the Gisborne to Napier rail line. But I do appreciate the comments made by my colleague Phil Twyford about what this might mean on an issue that is very serious for Auckland residents. We had another big bust up about it back in 2009 when they made Resource Management Act changes then, as well. Again, you have got the Hon Dr Nick Smith, who, as my colleague Phil Twyford pointed out, seems to be saying that you do not need a lot of trees; you could just have one and look at it a lot of times. That seems to be the approach being taken here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI want to congratulate my former colleague Lynne Pillay on the work she did with the Waitakere Ranges Protection Society legislation. I would hate to see that good work by Lynne Pillay undermined by the provisions in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022387622ece61a4b259c561a4d85bf8d84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022387622ece61a4b259c561a4d85bf8d84\u0022\u003EDENISE ROCHE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am going to focus my remarks mostly on how this bill, the Resource Management Reform Bill, impacts on Auckland. I guess if I were to summarise the provisions in this bill that are about Auckland, I would have to say that this bill shows that Wellington hates Auckland. This National Government hates Auckland. Having dismantled democracy in Canterbury, having ripped the guts out of local government with the Local Government Act 2002, and having forced the amalgamation of Auckland, this Government is now set to slip through another piece of legislation that enshrines the power of the Government to interfere\u2014interfere\u2014in local government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThis bill will do to Auckland what the Canterbury earthquake achieved in Christchurch\u2014that is, the handing over of power and control of the future development of the city to the National Government\u2019s agents. It is outrageous that this bill allows the Government to appoint the hearings commissioners who will hear the first Auckland Unitary Plan\u2014the combined plan. Just to remind the House, that combines the regional policy statements, regional plan, city and district plans, and regional coastal plans. These hearings commissioners also set the terms of reference for the whole plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EWe have seen this before from this Government. When it forced through the amalgamation of Auckland and it put that legislation in place, it also set up seven council-controlled organisations, and it appointed the directors of those council-controlled organisations. One of them was Auckland Council Investments, which oversaw the board of the Ports of Auckland. The Ports of Auckland, I remind the House, has seen the worst industrial dispute on the wharves at Auckland since the 1951 lockout. That is what happens when this Government appoints its cronies to positions of power. This bill once again allows the Government to meddle with, and interfere in, Auckland. It includes the provision that the Ministry for the Environment will audit the planned economic and environmental analysis before the plan\u2014the combined plan\u2014can be accepted. It is another example of the Government parachuting in its people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThe Government makes no apology that this bill once more reduces citizen participation in local government issues, once more aimed at reducing local democracy. The regulatory impact statement says it really baldly. It says the bill will \u201Cprovide greater central government direction on resource management\u201D. So this bill and its impact on Auckland is the streamlining process for the Auckland Plan. That includes the 3-year deadline. There are pros and cons about that, but it has got to have it done and dusted within 3 years. There is only a 20-day period for the council to decide whether to accept or reject the hearing panel\u2019s recommendations, and then there is a whole raft of very complicated processes that have to happen if it does reject it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThen there are also the provisions in the bill about unilaterally deciding to cut submitters from the process\u2014for example, if they miss out on a pre-hearing meeting without giving reasonable excuse, and it has not defined that. It sets out to punish councils in New Zealand with penalties if councils do not get the resource consents through in the 6-month time period. That is despite whatever the size of the project is. Given the deregulation that occurred in the 1980s, and the whole leaky building saga that councils and the Government have had to deal with in the decade since, one would think it would be fairly short-sighted to introduce legislation that once more means we will not be taking care with how developments proceed and with what kinds of restraints we should have on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EI guess to sum up, the Greens will be opposing this bill because it weighs heavily in favour of developers and does not give enough recognition of, or care for, future generations in the development of our cities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9fdccbacac84e139a01212c7d5459c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9fdccbacac84e139a01212c7d5459c7\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak with pleasure on the Resource Management Reform Bill 2012. This is the second piece of such legislation that this Government has brought through. We made it an election promise in 2011 that we would do so, and we are firm in our resolve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThere has been a lot of silly talk about not much consent and this being anti-Auckland. For the benefit of those who have not read the bill and are not aware of its provisions, let me say that there is a 6-month consenting for medium-sized projects, of which there are about 1,600 processed each year. That 6-month statutory time limit for local authorities to reach consent decisions will reduce costs, reduce uncertainty, and reduce delays. This is about reaching consent decisions faster, not changing the final decision. Incidentally, the 6-month time provides a 20-day submission period, which is exactly the same as the current system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI would say, in summary, that these cost uncertainties and the delays about the current resource management system are affecting New Zealand jobs and infrastructure. I hear a lot about it on the North Shore from my constituents, that this is a real barrier to them making progress in their businesses and in the work that they want to do. They encourage us to put through these reforms. It is delivering on our commitment, and I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226b27e33bf595454587a60c75bd5b7af6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Resource Management Reform Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 71\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000316\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Local Government and Environment Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2f668101eb04475b4eb43cd7bac2c3f\u0022\u003ESale and Supply of Alcohol Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2f668101eb04475b4eb43cd7bac2c3f\u0022\u003ELocal Government (Alcohol Reform) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2f668101eb04475b4eb43cd7bac2c3f\u0022\u003ESummary Offences (Alcohol Reform) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c92f6846dcf24f769fcf4d7525cad96e\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002215a87e3b33d04e95a4b1ea0b20a1a0e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215a87e3b33d04e95a4b1ea0b20a1a0e8\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Bill, the Local Government (Alcohol Reform) Amendment Bill, and the Summary Offences (Alcohol Reform) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. These bills provide a strong legislative framework for reducing alcohol-related harm. It is the first time in more than two decades that Parliament has acted to restrict, rather than relax, our drinking laws. Most New Zealanders enjoy alcohol in a responsible manner; however, the harm resulting from excessive drinking strains our country\u2019s health and law enforcement resources, and causes people and communities a lot of grief and stress. These bills contain a wide range of measures that will help to bring a change in our drinking culture. They provide many parts of society, from central to local government, communities, and parents, with tools to make that happen. Some people, including members of this House, feel that the bills do not go far enough. However, they strike a sensible balance and deal with the considerable harm that alcohol causes without unfairly affecting responsible drinkers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI would like to take this opportunity to outline some of the bills\u2019 key measures that will help reduce problem drinking in our country. Let us look at access to alcohol. Right now we can buy alcohol in supermarkets, bottle stores, clubs, bars, and corner stores, sometimes 24 hours a day. This is despite clear evidence showing a link between alcohol availability and harm, such as crime and health problems. The Sale and Supply of Alcohol Bill, which I will now refer to as \u201Cthe bill\u201D, introduces national maximum trading hours of 7 a.m. to 11 p.m. for bottle stores, supermarkets, and grocery stores, and 8 a.m. to 4 a.m. for restaurants, bars, and clubs. The bill also clarifies that dairies and convenience stores are not eligible to sell alcohol. Grocery stores, which also sell a range of household products, will still be eligible to hold licences. Definitions to make it clearer about the kinds of stores that can sell alcohol will be expanded on in regulations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EAccessing alcohol is easier when there are more licences, and communities have been telling us that they are concerned about the proliferation of stores selling alcohol in their areas. At present, it is very difficult to successfully object to a licence application. Licence criteria are limited and licences are relatively easy to obtain. This can be frustrating and disheartening for communities concerned about alcohol-related harm in their areas. Under the bill, licences will be harder to get and easier to lose. The bill introduces additional licensing criteria, including whether the licence is likely to encourage heavy drinking or increase alcohol-related harm, whether granting the licence will have a negative impact on the community\u2014for example, by increasing noise levels or vandalism\u2014and any relevant local alcohol policy in force for the area. The new criteria come into force 6 months after Royal assent. Until then, the existing criteria will continue to apply. The timing of this change has led to concern that people may apply for licences before the 6-month mark in order to avoid the strict criteria. The new Act will make it clear that any licence applied for in that 6-month period will receive an interim licence for up to a year. An interim licence cannot be renewed. Once it expires, the licensee will have to apply for a licence under the new Act if they wish to continue selling alcohol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EAs mentioned earlier, licences will be easier to lose. The bill increases focus on compliance by licensees and managers. Licensees and managers who repeatedly fail to meet their obligations under the new Act will lose their licence or certificate if they commit three specified offences within 3 years. They will also be subject to a stand-down period of 5 years. The bill also expands the range of offences for which an infringement notice can be issued, and gives licensing inspectors the power to issue infringement notices for certain offences. These changes make it clear that there is no room in the industry for licensees and managers who do not take their obligations seriously. The bill also has a strong focus on local decision-making. At present, licence applications that are opposed by police, a licensing inspector, or a medical officer of health are transferred to the Liquor Licensing Authority for a decision. This will be changed so that all applications will be decided locally by district licensing committees, or DLCs, which will replace the existing district licensing agencies. Each committee will be made up of two community members, and an elected representative or a commissioner will be the chair. This means that representatives of the community will have a direct say in every licensing decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EAnother important measure to give local communities a greater say is the option for communities to adopt a local alcohol policy. Under these policies, communities will be able to restrict or extend maximum trading hours. They will also be able to limit the location of licensed premises near certain facilities, such as schools, and specify whether further licences should be issued in a defined area. There have been calls to make local alcohol policies mandatory; however, there are important reasons why policies should be optional. Firstly, there is significant cost associated with the development of a local alcohol policy. Some territorial authorities\u2014particularly the smaller ones\u2014may not want to fund the development of a policy. Secondly, some communities may consider that a local alcohol policy is unnecessary for their area, and that the national maximum trading hours, a new criteria in the bill, adequately address their needs. It is very important that we allow communities to decide what it is best for them, especially given the aim of increasing community input and control over licensing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOne of the key concerns of communities has been the impact of alcohol on young people. The new Act will have a special focus on this vulnerable group. We know that heavy drinking is not the exclusive domain of the young, but young drinkers\u2014particularly those under 15\u2014suffer significantly more alcohol-related harm than older drinkers. The Government had proposed a split age of 18 years for bars, restaurants, and clubs, and 20 years for bottle stores, supermarkets, and grocery stores. In August of this year, this House voted to retain the current purchase age of 18 years. As many of you will know, I was personally disappointed by this choice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EHowever, the purchase age is not the only tool available to reduce the harm for young people. The new Act will give parents more control over their children\u2019s drinking, and make adults\u2019 responsibilities clear. Evidence shows that most under-18-year-olds get alcohol from their parents and other adults, such as older siblings or friends. Often this alcohol is supplied in large quantities, and without adequate supervision or controls. The bill changes this so that anyone who supplies alcohol to minors must have the express consent of the minor\u2019s parent or guardian. All alcohol, whether it is supplied by a parent or someone else, must be supplied responsibly. These changes provide police with a tool to intervene in unsupervised or poorly supervised events, such as after-ball functions or student parties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EDuring the select committee process, a wide range of submitters expressed concern about the exposure of children and young people to alcohol advertising. The bill prohibits advertising or promoting alcohol in a way that has special appeal to minors. It also expands other promotion offences to limit the harm of advertising. In supermarkets and grocery stores, alcohol and any alcohol advertising and promotion will be restricted to a single non-prominent area that cannot be near the checkout or the entrance. This will mean that our young people are not constantly exposed to alcohol when accompanying their parents on trips to the supermarket. The Government has also agreed to establish an expert forum to consider whether further restrictions on alcohol advertising and sponsorship are required. The forum will report back to the Ministers of Justice and of Health within a year of the bill being passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe Local Government (Alcohol Reform) Amendment Bill also makes changes to alcohol control bylaws, which we know as liquor bans. These bans cannot currently cover places like supermarket car parks and school grounds, which are areas where people, including young people, gather to drink. The Local Government (Alcohol Reform) Amendment Bill addresses this by expanding the definition of public place to include school grounds, private car parks, and other private spaces to which the public has legitimate access. This gives councils the power to make alcohol control bylaws covering these areas. The Summary Offences (Alcohol Reform) Amendment Bill also makes changes that will contribute to the effectiveness of the new framework. This amendment bill expands the definition of a public place to include vehicles in those areas. It also allows police to seize alcohol from a young person found drinking alcohol in a public place without a parent or guardian, as well as allowing them to issue an infringement notice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EAs many of you will be aware, these bills come into force in stages and will not be fully implemented until 12 months after the legislation is passed. This is to allow for the development of regulations to implement these bills. It will also give local authorities, licensing bodies, and licensees time to prepare for the changes. The Ministry of Justice is working closely with a range of agencies to ensure stakeholders are well-informed and supported during this implementation stage. I acknowledge that getting these bills through to this stage has been a very long process. I would like to thank all members of the House for their contributions to date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00220dbd3dffb394404b9d0716879f9677f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220dbd3dffb394404b9d0716879f9677f4\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E In early 2009 I attended the ministerial meeting on the drivers of crime and I was so impressed with the quality of discussion that occurred there that I went back to the Labour caucus and asked if we could offer to work collaboratively with the Government on these issues that were the drivers of crime. Obviously, there are distinct differences across the House in terms of how we might address crime, but the drivers of crime were just so blindingly obvious, as one of the National Party Ministers is wont to say. We said that the area that needed commitment from Governments of all colours across electoral cycles was the question of agreed policies around 0 to 12-year-olds. We stopped it at 12, because we felt that some of the policies that National was bringing forward, like the boot camps and things like that, were not evidence-based. At least on the 0 to 12-year-olds we could get agreement. National was not prepared to go down that path, but what it did agree to do was to undertake some \u201Cinitial cooperation on the alcohol issue\u201D. Unfortunately, if what has occurred is cooperation, then I would really hate to see what the alternative was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EAs the former Minister who introduced an alcohol reform bill before the 2008 general election, and announced the Law Commission review, I have been hugely disappointed in the lack of progress from this Government. I have been even more disappointed in the misrepresentation of the current debate around the Alcohol Reform Bill. The first thing that I just want to address is the conscience vote. Parliament had a conscience vote dating back to the days when we had a triennial referendum on prohibition continuance or State-purchasing control\u2014and, yes, even I am old enough to recall voting in one of those. But when the referendum ended, so should have the conscience vote. It was at that point that we should have realised that it was no longer going to be a justice issue, but really ought to have been a health issue in terms of regulating the sale and purchase of what is a drug, as we do with pharmaceuticals legislation, as we do with the Misuse of Drugs Act. So we actually could have had that chance then, but we did not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Law Commission said that the conscience vote can \u201Creduce the quality and effectiveness of the alcohol laws that Parliament enacts.\u201D, and that \u201CThe resulting statute can lack coherence and structural logic.\u201D What the Law Commission did not anticipate when it wrote those words was that it could also lack teeth. It could also lack teeth. And the reason is that when the Law Commission wrote its report on the conscience vote, it was absolutely crystal clear that it had the role of drafting the legislation that would come before this House. It was the National Government that took away its opportunity to actually draft the law. So it did not anticipate National preventing it from completing the task that it had been given. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ENational, of course, gave up the conscience vote except for age. I have to say that was a very clever move on its part, because all of the public focus then went on the remaining conscience vote on the age and all of us got rung up by various parts of the media to ask us how we were voting on this one issue. That was the tactic. That was the strategy: have all the public attention on the age so we cannot see what the real issues are. And that is how it got agreement. The rest of the bill did nothing controversial\u2014nothing controversial. In fact, it delivered to many of those who were arguing for nothing controversial to come to the law, or no substantial change to be made. This is National\u2019s bill. It is not a shadow of the law the Law Commission would have written and that is why I have been saying throughout this debate that it is a travesty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Law Commission spells out exactly what is required, and I say to all of the people who stood up in this House and said they want evidence to go and read the Law Commission report. That is the evidence. It has all the evidence we need. And the evidence says increase the price of alcohol, increase the purchase age for alcohol, decrease accessibility, decrease marketing and advertising, increase drink-driving measures, and then, on top of that, increase treatment options for heavy drinkers. So who has dominated this debate out there in the public arena and who has actually dominated the debate in this House? I would say that there are two interests. On one side there are the private interests and on the other side there is the public good. I just want to describe who has been mounting the argument for the private interests, because it is not just the alcohol industry that we have heard about, it is not just the breweries and the makers of distilled spirits, and it is not just the wine industry and the hospitality industry, although many of them have different views on different matters, because there is not a level playing field out there in terms of who can do what. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe real winners, the real private interests that have dominated this debate are the Food and Grocery Council, which has actually continued its ability to sell dirt-cheap alcohol through our supermarkets, thereby driving down the cost of takeaway alcohol that is drunk away from supervised premises, where there is no host responsibility beyond the door. So as soon as somebody walks out the door with the bottle of whatever, the host responsibility goes out the door with them. Who are the other private interests that we have dominating this debate? It is the advertisers and the marketers, but, most important, it is those who receive the advertising dollars\u2014the media. I am afraid they are the true influencers of public opinion and they have sought to influence public opinion on advertising and marketing, pushing that private interest over the public good, and I am going to come to the public good in a minute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWhen I introduced the original bill that National threw out, I remember that there was a headline in the New Zealand Herald. What it said was that I was putting a guy out of business who had run his dairy for 24 years\u2014that my bill was going to put him out of business and he had been running this dairy for 24 years. But then read the story, because the headline tells the story and not everyone reads the whole story. But when you read the story, he has not had a licence to sell alcohol for 24 years; he actually had the licence to sell alcohol\u2014beer and wine\u2014for only 3\u00BD years. And guess how much that alcohol made up of his turnover in that dairy\u201430 percent of his turnover in 3\u00BD years was selling alcohol from a dairy masquerading as a grocery store. That is the problem. We are not debating the real issues, because we are not seeing the real issues actually being put in front of the public in terms of the public good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E Who represents the public good? Who has been speaking on behalf of the public good? It is the police and the people who operate our courts, our hospitals, the emergency departments, ACC, health groups, NGOs and not-for-profits working on areas in terms of public health right the way through to domestic violence, and communities struggling to deal with hard issues, finding alcohol promotion being really a major part of their concerns that they are having to confront as a community. But they are fearful of speaking out. And why are they fearful of speaking out? It is actually not because they do not want to be challenged on their views; it is because they are fearful that they will lose their charitable status. They are fearful that they will lose Government funding if they speak out against Government policy. The truth is that the NGO sector, the not-for-profit sector, the health sector, and our police are not participating in what is being described as political advocacy. They are, in fact, representing the public good, and it is their interests that we have sought to prevail in this House. That is why we retained the conscience vote for this debate. We wanted to debate the real issues: restrictions on advertising, discounting, and promoting of alcohol; restrictions on trading hours; minimum pricing; making local alcohol policies mandatory and strengthening the community\u2019s say; banning the sale of ready-to-drinks with more than 5 percent alcohol and more than 1.5 standard drinks; health risk warning labels and nutritional information panel requirements; health levies; and lower blood-alcohol levels for drink-driving\u2014all of which would contribute to saving lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EToday Alcohol Action NZ has put out a media release with the headline: \u201CNational\u2019s Alcohol Reform Bill totally fails the public\u201D. It says: \u201CThe campaign for effective alcohol law reform will go on. National has only delayed the inevitable. Just as happened with tobacco reform, parliamentary champions will emerge who are prepared to put the public first. Meanwhile, history will judge those MPs who wilfully planned and led the wasted opportunity to do something to help the hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders being harmed ...\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00225fd8bcda982241f583b3f68de54c6b0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225fd8bcda982241f583b3f68de54c6b0b\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E After I spoke in the Committee stage of the Alcohol Reform Bill last Thursday I had to leave the Chamber, so I was not present when my commitment to highlighting the issue of foetal alcohol spectrum disorder and to supporting measures that would reduce its incidence were questioned disingenuously by an Opposition member. I am confident that the fine folk of Alcohol Healthwatch, who lead the charge in this area, and the remarkable Shirley Winikerei, who is a tireless campaigner on the issue in my electorate of Hamilton West, will confirm that I have been a vigorous champion of the foetal alcohol spectrum disorder cause for all the time I have been a member of Parliament. Although MPs\u2019 increasing awareness of foetal alcohol spectrum disorder has not translated into Parliament meeting all of Alcohol Healthwatch\u2019s aims, I think the organisation may feel confident that its voice is a respected and increasingly heard voice in our Parliament, and that has to be a good thing for our future mothers and their babies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe Labour member who attacked me last Thursday said I should put my money where my mouth was by supporting her amendment, although she must have known that it was outside the scope of the bill and could not be adopted, for reasons that were explained to the Committee by the Associate Minister of Justice. For the record, not only am I aware that there is measurable public support for introducing health warning labels but also I was one of the first MPs in New Zealand to make a written submission to the Australia and New Zealand Food Regulation Ministerial Council review panel in support of alcohol being mandated to carry health warnings. However, because of our agreement with Australia, any changes to alcohol labelling must be developed through the Australia New Zealand Joint Foods Standards Treaty. That is why labelling was deemed to be outside the scope of the bill and the inconsistent amendment was rejected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI understand that the joint ministerial review of food labelling law and policy has resulted in both Governments recently agreeing to give the alcohol industry 2 years to introduce pregnancy warning labels on alcoholic beverage containers, and that we have the option to regulate if it fails to do so. Although I would like it to be sooner, I am reassured to know that it is happening, and I remain fully supportive of the warning labels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe expected enactment of this legislation today is a significant step forward for New Zealand. I was pleased to hear a police officer during a Television One news item at the weekend say how much he is looking forward to the passage of the legislation, because of the local alcohol plans, the chance to stop all-night licensing hours, and so on. I met recently with the mayor and councillors in my city of Hamilton to encourage them to get their local alcohol policy in place, and I commend them for their very positive moves in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI am the first to acknowledge that this legislation will not solve all of our alcohol-related problems, and I believe that we must remain ready to respond in the future if further legislative change is required. But the fact remains that legislation alone cannot change a culture, and it is dangerous attitudes and a reckless approach to personal safety that are at the heart of New Zealand\u2019s alcohol abuse problems. Each and every one of us must do our bit to influence better decision-making by our friends and family, to teach our youth how to handle alcohol sensibly, to oppose irresponsible promotions and distribution of alcohol, to support our health workers and law enforcement officers, who bear such a heavy burden whenever alcohol is abused, and so on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAs this long process draws to its welcome conclusion, I want to again praise the Law Commission for the huge job it did researching the issues, consulting New Zealanders, and, ultimately, proposing to this House reforms that are overwhelmingly reflected in the legislation that is soon to be enacted. Not all of its proposals made it, however. Members will know that during the Committee stage I promoted an amendment seeking to increase the age for all categories of liquor purchases, as was mentioned a few moments ago by the Minister of Justice and as was recommended by the commission. It was narrowly defeated, and I believe that most New Zealanders were hugely disappointed at that outcome. But I thank those members who chose to support it. We have dropped the ball in that respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI congratulate the Hon Judith Collins on the many fine amendments she promoted in her Supplementary Order Paper to this legislation, such as the tighter controls on liquor displays, and measures to prevent irresponsible liquor advertising and promotions. I am especially pleased by the Minister\u2019s empowering of parents and guardians to control the supply of alcohol to minors. That is a bold and crucial step. It will help to avert the types of tragedies we have all been aware of during this debate in recent years. I offer my deep sympathy to the families who have suffered those terrible losses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThere has been a lot of discussion of what is not in the legislation, and I do respect the views of all who have taken a close interest in this issue. But today is the time to welcome all that is in the legislation, and I remain confident that the measures in this legislation will make a positive difference. Now is the time for us to put them into action and for all of us to commit to making them work. That is my firm intention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI seek leave to table the submission that I made on 10 May 2010 to the Australia and New Zealand Food Regulation Ministerial Council review panel in support of alcohol being mandated to carry health warnings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00221e88b0b50e63456cb4a2867f3484661e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e88b0b50e63456cb4a2867f3484661e\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there anyone opposed to that course of action? There is none. Leave is granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u00229f15ed8dd20c4257adc8d0297ce5e31a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f15ed8dd20c4257adc8d0297ce5e31a\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E That contribution from Tim Macindoe I think really sums up the Government\u2019s position on alcohol reform and trying to deal with alcohol harm: patronising, full of platitudes, and absolutely devoid of action. I do want to congratulate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298416c90c7654f26b281cf734600ad86\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: And substance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022495775df71ae4cb59448961891032c8d\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: And substance as well. I do want to congratulate Mr Macindoe on the position he has taken and on the advocacy that he has carried out over the years. Unfortunately, he has failed to influence his own party and he has failed to influence this Government to actually pass legislation that will make a real difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis has been a long journey. It was started by Labour back in 2008, when Lianne Dalziel first promoted legislation in this area and the Law Commission was asked to undertake its review. The Law Commission presented its comprehensive, evidence-based report, and anticipated that it would be drafting legislation that this Parliament could consider. However, this National Government got its hands on it, and Simon Power dramatically watered down what the Law Commission suggested Parliament should be doing and brought to Parliament a weak and insipid bill, the Alcohol Reform Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E But we on the Opposition benches supported it because we had hope that when it went to the Justice and Electoral Committee we might have the opportunity to strengthen it. And, indeed, members on the select committee did hear thousands of submissions all making good suggestions about how we could strengthen this legislation to make it align more closely with the Law Commission\u2019s report and more closely with what New Zealanders wanted us to do, so that it would actually achieve something. Many members on the committee made good suggestions and some positive amendments were made to the legislation, but, unfortunately, not enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThen along came Judith Collins. She took a watered-down bill and diluted it even further. In the face of pressure from a number of different industries Judith Collins folded like a piece of paper. What we ended up with was something that was so watered down that this is essentially the homeopathic approach to alcohol harm. There was no substance, nothing left in this bill by the time it was watered down first by Simon Power and then by Judith Collins. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EJudith Collins faced pressure from the liquor industry, and, under pressure from the liquor industry, she removed the sensible provisions that were originally put in the bill by her predecessor to regulate alcopops. So we lost the regulation around the number of standard drinks that any one can or bottle of alcopop could contain. We lost the regulation around the maximum amount of alcohol volume that there could be in each alcopop. So we will continue to see the crime scene in a can that the police refer to so often: the Cody\u2019s, the Woodstock, and all the other horrible, cheap alcopops designed to do one thing, and that is to get people as drunk as possible as quickly as possible. Judith Collins is responsible for that and the National Government is responsible for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EUnder pressure from the supermarkets Judith Collins folded once again and cancelled out the changes her own colleagues on the select committee made to strengthen the provisions about where you could put alcohol in a supermarket. Her own colleagues wanted to make the bill stronger, and Judith Collins trumped them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EShe has delayed the introduction of the local alcohol policies, which were one of the few positive aspects of this legislation. It is something that communities are crying out for\u2014the ability to determine the number of liquor outlets and how liquor is regulated in their own communities. It is something that people want now. They do not want to have to wait 12 months, and there is no reason for them to have to wait 12 months. This is not forcing local government to do anything; it is empowering local communities to have local control over local decisions. That opportunity is being delayed, and justice delayed is justice denied. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EBut it was not just the watering down. This bill was pretty weak to start with. The Government failed to act properly to curb advertising. It was given a number of different options that it could have taken up at the Committee stage. There were simple things, like shifting the television watershed out by a mere half-hour, like eliminating advertising near schools, like taking a proper look at the role that alcohol sponsorship plays in our communities, all the way through to the suggestion of a total ban on television and radio advertising and a total ban on sponsorship. There was a wide spectrum of options on the table, any one of which the Government could have chosen to take up, and it chose to do nothing\u2014nothing\u2014on liquor advertising. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe Government failed to act on price. Again, it was given a number of options: minimum pricing, excise tax, and a health levy applied at the point of sale, all of which would have helped deal with price. We know that the evidence says that price is one of the premium ways that we can curb the harm caused by alcohol. But because this Government is beholden to the Food and Grocery Council, it chose to do nothing on price. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis Government failed to act on reducing the blood-alcohol level. Again, there are over 300 studies internationally that show that lowering the blood-alcohol level will have a significant impact on the harm caused by alcohol, particularly on our roads, obviously, but it is also about setting the environment in which alcohol is consumed. The Government is beholden to the Hospitality Association, and, frankly, to the Automobile Association, whose position on this issue has been disappointing. The evidence was there, the opportunity was there, but, again, National failed to act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWe had a spirited debate about the purchase age, and Tim Macindoe brought this up. I want to know why that was singled out for the conscience vote. Why was all the attention put on the age? Why was all the media attention put on the age, when the evidence says that it is one way of dealing with harm but it is a small way? It was described by one member as trying to empty a bucket of water with a teaspoon. It will happen, but it will happen over a very, very long period of time, and there are other, more effective measures that this Government has failed to pick up. But that is where all the attention went, and, as Lianne Dalziel said, it was a superb strategy from the Government to divert attention away from its failure to act on any number of ways it could have acted to truly deal with alcohol-related harm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis is not the end of this debate. There is no doubt that we will have to revisit this issue again in the future, and it will have to be done with a Government that has got the vision, the purpose, and, frankly, the guts to tackle this issue properly. When we do\u2014in fact, in all dealings to do with alcohol-related matters in the future\u2014this issue should cease to be primarily a justice issue and should be a health issue. The Ministry of Health should be the lead agency. The Minister of Health should be the lead Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI want to just briefly reflect on the paucity of alcohol addiction treatment that there is available in this country at the moment. That is another area where this Government is failing. It takes far too long to access addiction treatment once somebody is referred or self-identifies as needing it. That delay often results in people not accessing the treatment they require. That is something that ought to be one of this Government\u2019s health priorities, but, of course, it is not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThere is nothing wrong with what is in this bill, and that is why it will get broad support from around the House. But what has left New Zealand so disappointed with this Government is the things that have been left out, its failure to act, and its failure to tackle the big issues, the difficult issues. That is why New Zealanders are resoundingly disappointed with this legislation. It is weak. It is insipid. It will not achieve the outcomes that are desirable, and we will have to revisit this issue again because of this Government\u2019s failure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u00222d4a89e0d3574a2fa5ab14fa9eea0883\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d4a89e0d3574a2fa5ab14fa9eea0883\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I want to begin by quoting the Law Commission, from the foreword of its report Alcohol in our Lives: Curbing the Harm. It says: \u201CThe principle under which we have approached this review is that New Zealanders live in a free and democratic society. They are subject only to such limitation in their freedom as can be justified in such a society. They have liberty to behave as they choose as long as their actions respect the rights of others and are not contrary to the law. Public policy decisions that are made to restrict activity have to be justified by strong arguments that it is in the public interest that individuals and corporations do not exercise their freedom in particular ways. We believe the recommendations in this report meet that test.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EAt the heart of the debate we have been holding in this House over months and, indeed, years is a disagreement about where the limits to individual liberty should lie. In general, this House has moved to limit personal liberty where it has threatened harm or cost to society itself; where it threatens harm to others, particularly without their consent; and where harm is threatened to the individuals themselves. For example, we insist on seatbelts in cars not so much because of the cost of health care that society would incur but because of the risk of injury to the wearer. We limit personal liberty in all of those circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe Law Commission\u2019s report goes on to document considerable harm caused by alcohol consumption to those who drink it, the people they interact with, and the wider society, including those who have to pick up the pieces when things go wrong. One in three New Zealand drinkers, for example, report being harmed by their own drinking in the past year alone. At least a third of all recorded offences that the police deal with are committed by someone who has been consuming alcohol. Over a thousand deaths a year are related to alcohol, along with untold illness and injury. And most of this harm is sustained by those communities that are already marginalised by poverty, racism, and other factors. Alcohol magnifies and compounds that harm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI am not a wowser. I do not believe in prohibition. I enjoy a few drinks, and I would say that I derive some benefit from them. But those benefits that are derived by those of us who do enjoy a few drinks must be weighed against the very considerable harms that are done to our society by alcohol. There is plenty of evidence to support most of the Law Commission\u2019s recommendations. There has been one particularly powerful report, Alcohol: No Ordinary Commodity: Research and Public Policy, by Babor and others on behalf of the World Health Organization in 2003, where experts ranked possible interventions to reduce alcohol-related harm, based on reliable evidence. I will not run through all of the actions that they rank, but the most effective actions that Governments can take are a suite of actions that are grouped as regulation of physical ability\u2014so where alcohol can be purchased, when it can be purchased, and so on\u2014increasing alcohol taxes, and lowering blood-alcohol limits for driving. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThere is also very strong evidence around advertising and sponsorship, yet our Government has essentially chosen to take very little or no action in precisely these areas that would have most effect on reducing alcohol-related harm. It has also chosen to take little or no action in the areas that the Law Commission has recommended and prioritised. Instead, the Government has focused on preserving maximal individual liberty, totally without evidence of effectiveness. So focused has it been on this one area that in most cases it has not been willing to even try to influence the individual choices that New Zealand citizens make. Alcohol, under this set of bills, will in most cases continue to be available more or less anywhere, any time. Consumers will still be bathed in alcohol marketing wherever they go. Alcohol will continue to be available cheaper than milk. We will continue to allow much more drinking before driving than most countries. There will not even be any information on alcohol labels\u2014so much for the market theory\u2014and penalties for selling alcohol to those who are under age will remain pathetically weak. The approach taken by the Government is more like a game show based on exposing competitors to extreme temptation than a serious attempt at healthy public policy. I wonder who the survivors will be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003ESome of the elements of the Government\u2019s response have no evidence at all to support them. In the Babor review there was no evidence that voluntary codes of practice for bars had any effect at all, yet that is precisely the approach that the Government now favours around ready-to-drinks. Others of the Government\u2019s responses show a stubborn refusal to learn from the experience of other countries, in a form of New Zealand exceptionalism. Here, for example, are the countries that already have blood-alcohol limits of 0.5 milligrams per millilitre or less: Australia, Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Israel, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, the Slovak Republic, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and Turkey. But, no, we will stand with the Americans. Where they go, we go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EInterestingly, the approach that the Government has adopted is more or less exactly what the Hospitality Association lobbied for and other parts of the alcohol industry thought they might be able to get away with. That match of Government policy to industry demands is becoming disturbingly familiar. We see it in the Government\u2019s interactions with the food industry, with the Aussie banks, with the roading lobby, with the big carbon polluters, and so on. So, ironically, under the guise of individual liberty, the Government has actually ceded control of our economy, society, and environment more and more to major commercial interests, at the expense of human ones and at the expense of the collective good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe Green Party stands instead for an economy set up to deliver on our collective social and environmental goals. We stand for a society in which we all look after each other. We stand for a society that is prepared to limit individual liberty and constrain corporate interests in order to protect itself and each one of us from harm and cost. The relationship that New Zealand society has with alcohol is a sick one. The harm associated with that dysfunction is massive, and the mandate exists from the New Zealand public for substantial change. The Law Commission has given what history suggests will turn out to be a once-in-a-generation opportunity to limit that harm. We remain frustrated and disappointed that the Government has chosen not to take up that opportunity. We will vote for this legislation because it is a step in the right direction, but it is a baby step when a giant stride was needed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u00223eb8200e529544b6b1be4dbf0f3d7b19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223eb8200e529544b6b1be4dbf0f3d7b19\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to take a short call on this. The Alcohol Reform Bill is now divided into three bills: the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Bill; the Local Government (Alcohol Reform) Amendment Bill, which amends the Local Government Act in relation to alcohol control by-laws and liquor bans; and the Summary Offences (Alcohol Reform) Amendment Bill, which expands the definition of a \u201Cpublic place\u201D to include vehicles in those areas, and which also allows police to seize alcohol from a young person in a public place who is not there with a parent or guardian, as well as allowing the police to issue infringement notices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EOur alcohol reform package is designed to put in place a new regulatory system for the safe supply and sale of alcohol. It aims to help minimise the harm caused by excessive and inappropriate consumption of alcohol. In previous speeches I have talked about the importance of empowering local communities to create their own local alcohol policies\u2014a huge plus, as we have heard many speakers observe\u2014and how these bills give parents more tools to manage their children\u2019s access to alcohol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EOther salient features are that it allows the Minister of Justice, in consultation with the Minister of Health, to ban alcohol products that are especially appealing to young people or particularly dangerous to health. It strengthens the existing offence of excessive consumption of alcohol by making it apply to any businesses selling or promoting alcohol and prohibiting a wider range of promotions, such as the most iniquitous one, which is advertising free alcohol. It makes it an offence to promote alcohol in a way that has a special appeal to those under the purchase age. These changes will apply to any promotion, including TV advertising and billboards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EThe package sets up an experts forum to examine the merits of further restrictions on alcohol advertising and sponsorship\u2014a very pertinent point, given the Law Commission\u2019s report. I particularly loathe the so-called ready-to-drinks or alcopops. These are alcoholic wolves masquerading as sweet, syrupy sheep. We have a regulation-making power in the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Bill allowing us to restrict ready-to-drinks at any time in the future. This sends a very strong signal to the industry that it must take action to reduce the harm. I commend the legislation to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a167ee4436d141cbaad1e72c1f1f4705\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a167ee4436d141cbaad1e72c1f1f4705\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E It is rather sad that New Zealand First cannot support all three bills from the Alcohol Reform Bill that we now have before us. We will be able to support the Local Government (Alcohol Reform) Amendment Bill and the Summary Offences (Alcohol Reform) Amendment Bill, but we will not be able to support the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Bill, which forms the main part of the alcohol reforms. The expectations of the public that these reforms would make a difference were very high. Those expectations have not been met by this legislation. One expectation was that the public\u2019s majority view of the needed reforms would be delivered, and that expectation is not being met either. The result is that this Government\u2019s attempt at the reforms needed around alcohol is a failure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EWhat we can expect is that some of the worst behaviour around alcohol abuse will carry on unabated this Christmas and New Year period. What we can expect is that the drinking culture amongst the young will get worse and not better. What we can expect is that the rate of harm to young drinkers in particular will accelerate and not improve, because this Government has made it clear to them that all is well and that they should carry on just as they are. That is not what the public of New Zealand wants. What we can also expect is that the big commercial interests in alcohol will be feeling very well satisfied with the legislation as it now is because they are well and truly off the hook. The truth about this legislation is that it is an opportunity lost. It is an opportunity lost to send a message about the awful drinking culture, especially amongst the young, in this country. It is an opportunity lost to introduce some real controls around the most dangerous forms of alcohol products. It is even an opportunity lost to warn people on labels on alcohol about the real dangers of it, especially with regard to pregnant women. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThere are some good things in the three bills though, but not nearly enough to save the legislation from being a failed and weak attempt at reform. One of the areas where some progress is made is in the better empowerment of local authorities to make by-laws and to establish local alcohol policies. The provisions for local alcohol policies are welcome. Local alcohol policies have a capacity to make a large contribution to alcohol control in New Zealand because they will reflect local issues and local attitudes. However, these should be mandatory in the legislation and not just discretionary, and this shows again the weakness of the Government\u2019s proposed legislation. There are some better controls around supermarkets, dairies, and grocery stores, and those are also welcome to clarify the law, but they too have been weakened when more restriction was indicated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EBut there are really two great blunders in this attempt at alcohol reform. The first, of course, is the failure to return the age for purchasing alcohol to 20 years. Only New Zealand First voted as a party on that, and we voted to return it to 20 years. It was clearly what the vast majority of New Zealanders wanted. Increasing the purchase age would have made alcohol harder for young people to get. It would have meant less consumption by that age group. It would have given them a good signal that they need to change, but that opportunity has been lost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe second failure is the failure to deal with the problem drinks, the ready-to-drinks. These sweet, easy-to-drink ready-to-drinks and similar drinks are well known to be very harmful because large quantities can be consumed, especially, of course, by young people. Sugar levels are very high. They make the drinks very attractive. These drinks have at least 5 percent alcohol and, in many cases, a lot more. They can be treated by young people as though they were soft drinks, and they lead too easily to intoxication. They are pushed and priced to sell by alcohol producers and sellers. They are condemned by the experts and the Law Commission as one of the drinks most potentially harmful to our young people. And what has this Government done? It said \u201CWell, maybe we\u2019ll do something about it in the future.\u201D, and that is not good enough. Drinks of this kind with more than 5 percent alcohol should be covered by this legislation and should be prohibited. That would have been the most effective thing we could have done as part of these reforms. This Government has totally abdicated its responsibility to act effectively in this way. Instead, it has sold out to big alcohol industry players that have twisted the Government\u2019s arm. In so doing, the Government has also sold our young people down the river\u2014a river of bad alcohol and bad habits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe Government says that it has got assurances that the alcohol industry wants the chance to introduce its own measures to limit the production and the sale of these drinks, but that does not explain at all why the Government should not be prohibiting and regulating these drinks right now. In fact, providing a level playing field and requiring all industry operators to do the same would assist and not hinder industry cooperation. The industry in any event cannot be trusted to do the right thing without regulation. Otherwise, it would have done it well before now. It is very uncertain what in the end the industry will do without the guidance of regulations. It is, as we all know, actually the Government\u2019s job to propose legislation and regulation. It is not a matter for the alcohol industry to do so, and there is no need for the Government to wait and see whether the alcohol industry will act appropriately. It should just pass the necessary measures right now to restrict or prohibit ready-to-drinks, the biggest single alcohol problem in this country for young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E So for those reasons New Zealand First cannot support such weak and watered-down legislation, except for the few areas of advantage, and I refer especially to local alcohol policies, which can make a good contribution. New Zealand First has no choice but to vote against the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Bill. New Zealand deserves a lot better than this, but this Government is not capable of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u00222518dabb7a4f4149b26af1a7f250b7b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222518dabb7a4f4149b26af1a7f250b7b7\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to speak on the third reading of the bills from the Alcohol Reform Bill. This legislation is in response to the Law Commission\u2019s 2010 report. As the Minister of Justice noted in her speech, it is the first time in two decades that a Parliament has acted to restrict access to alcohol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI also was personally disappointed that the purchase age has remained at the status quo, but I agree with other speakers that we have in this legislation the tool to begin to change the alcohol culture and there will be no single magic bullet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI am particularly pleased with three aspects of the legislation, and those include giving parents more tools to manage their children\u2019s access to alcohol. In particular, it is an offence for anyone other than a parent or guardian to provide alcohol to an under-18-year-old without a parent or guardian\u2019s consent expressed. Also, it has to be given in a responsible manner. I agree with other speakers that empowering local communities is going to have a crucial part to play in changing alcohol culture. I am also very pleased that supermarkets and grocery stores will display and advertise alcohol only in a single, non-prominent area. I commend this legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u00228ae2a96005ff411e86a00e3231e7af98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ae2a96005ff411e86a00e3231e7af98\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to begin by acknowledging the work that has gone into the Alcohol Law Reform Bill, which we are debating today: the work that was done by the Law Commission in its excellent report on the state of alcohol law reform in New Zealand; the work that was done by the officials from the Ministry of Justice, some of whom I see are present in the gallery today, who gave excellent advice to the Justice and Electoral Committee as we conducted our deliberations, heard submissions, and received advice in the 49th Parliament; and also the work of Lianne Dalziel. When she was Associate Minister of Justice she introduced a good and comprehensive set of alcohol law reforms that were, unfortunately, withdrawn by the former Minister, the Hon Simon Power. They were, essentially, confined to the legislative dustbin. That is a real shame, because 2 or 3 years ago Parliament could have passed comprehensive alcohol law reform, if that had not been the history of this matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E Instead, we saw new legislation tabled. It was to have been passed in the previous Parliament, but it was not. That Parliament ran out of time, as it did with so many of the other measures that were being advanced by the former Minister of Justice, and so it is not until now, the end of the first year of the next triennium, that this Parliament has finally gotten round to addressing the issue of alcohol law reform. That is a shame, because there will have been further, unnecessary alcohol-related deaths and illnesses suffered in New Zealand as a result of that delay, and that must weigh on our consciences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThere were, I think, some useful observations made in the Minister\u2019s speech, and in some of the speeches made by Government members, about the good innovations that are contained in this bill, and they are undeniable. It is quite clear that if this bill passes through Parliament, we will have, in general, a better regime for regulating the sale and purchase of alcohol in New Zealand compared with that which exists now. There are some good, logical technical changes, which I commend to the House, and which certainly lead me to be inclined to support the legislation. But, as other speakers have noted, that, unfortunately, is not the yardstick by which this measure is going to be judged. It is not going to be judged by those sensible technical improvements. It is going to be judged by all the lost opportunities, which we as a Parliament have passed up, to really try to make a dent in the problematic parts of New Zealand\u2019s binge drinking culture, which is a problem that is acknowledged right across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI want to remind the House of some of those lost opportunities by way of speaking to some of the Supplementary Order Papers that were voted down in the Committee of the whole House. There was a very, very good suggestion from my colleague Iain Lees-Galloway, who spoke earlier in this debate, which would have put some restrictions on the advertising of alcohol. It would have ensured that the exposure of young people to alcohol advertising was reduced by ending billboard and poster advertising within 300 metres of schools, creating a 9 p.m. watershed for alcohol advertising on television, and restricting alcohol advertising in cinemas to those films with an R18 rating. There would have also been under his amendment a committee of officials set up to plan and implement the introduction of greater restrictions on all forms of alcohol promotion, in accordance with the Law Commission\u2019s report. It is a great tragedy that that Supplementary Order Paper 91 did not pass into law, because it would have meant a better bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003ESimilarly, David Clark suggested an amendment that would have increased the restrictions on the advertising of alcohol on television, in order to prevent the relentless presentation of the product in the attractive light in which it is currently portrayed, which, as we all know from the evidence, tends to increase consumption. Again, all the evidence before the select committee was that tackling advertising in a sensible way would really help to get the message across that alcohol is not a normal product and that it does have hazards if it is not consumed appropriately and responsibly, and yet we failed as a Parliament to progress that amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThere was another amendment, which I supported, from my colleague Louisa Wall, which would have ensured that off-licence premises could not be located within a 1-kilometre radius of an early childhood centre or a primary, intermediate, or secondary school. I acknowledge that that amendment had some issues around workability, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022293944a82a744284aaea6bbc97acde6e\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Sure did\u2014sure did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229ebac3b975c4245b35d6723c7431b10\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot forget, Mr Williamson, the evidence that I heard at the select committee from schools in low-decile areas that are having to deal with the fact that their kids\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dd6f22b53234b6a86e585a131ea2efe\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: Local alcohol plans take care of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a260a098ccb640329b8623cf21e94948\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: Their kids walk past liquor stores every day on the way to school. This is a \u201Cnormal\u201D product. The advertising is out on the street, on sandwich boards. Those kids in those areas are exposed to these advertising messages right from the beginning, and the evidence is that the normalisation of alcohol in that way is going to be detrimental to many of those children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThere were some other very good amendments. The restriction on the trading hours of off-licences proposal, which Andrew Little put up on his Supplementary Order Paper 110, is one that I think it is a shame we missed the opportunity to progress. One that I think really did deserve better treatment from the House than it got was Lianne Dalziel\u2019s suggestion that we empower the Minister with the ability to set a minimum price regime for alcoholic products. Contrary to all the propaganda and all the misinformation that were put out about that proposal, all it would have done was insert a clause in the legislation giving the Minister a power. She could have taken advice from the officials. It could have been a sliding scale type of arrangement that would have affected only alcoholic products that were truly identified as problematic. Again, the evidence we heard in the select committee was that that is cheap wine in supermarkets. That is what people use to pre-load before they go out on the town and buy from on-licences. It is an area where we have to get more serious and where very little will be done by this legislation to make a change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EOne of the members on the Government benches interjected earlier that local alcohol policies would go a long way to solve one of the problems that I was speaking about earlier\u2014and they will, where they exist\u2014but one of the things that I think best typifies the lost opportunities in this legislation is our failure to have made local alcohol policies a comprehensive requirement of local government regions, because, again, at the select committee what we were told is that the areas of greatest deprivation are often the areas where it is hardest to get civic involvement in local government so that people will push for stronger regulation of the availability of advertising in their communities. In other words, the places where you most need a local alcohol policy will probably be the last places to get them, if they get them at all, because we have made it a matter for the discretion of the local authority, rather than saying to the local authority: \u201CLook, you need to have one of these for the well-being of your community, and here are the sorts of things you might want to put in it.\u201D The other problem is that we have very much restricted the matters that local government bodies can deal with in local alcohol policies. They are not able to take a health promotion approach. They are simply restricted to the old regulatory philosophy about the availability of alcohol, and, again, that is a lost opportunity in this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThere were a number of other very good Supplementary Order Papers. I think the failure of those Supplementary Order Papers to progress simply because they were moved by the Opposition and because the Government members were whipped on every issue in this bill\u2014other than the age issue\u2014is one of the reasons why, in the media and in the public, there is this very justifiable sense of a lost opportunity with this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI want to conclude by praising the work that has been done throughout this debate by Alcohol Action New Zealand. Professor Doug Sellman, the Director of the National Addiction Centre, Professor Geoffrey Robinson, the chief medical officer in Wellington, and Professor Jennie Connor, the head of the department of preventive and social medicine at Otago University, have issued a statement today. I want to read the last paragraph of that statement, in conclusion: \u201Chistory will judge those MPs who wilfully planned and led the wasted opportunity to do something to help the hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders being harmed by weak alcohol laws. Their failure is seen in the bill due to be passed in Parliament today\u2014of particular note: Key, Dunne, Borrows, Joyce, Collins and Power.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u002251072ef05a2f49da9d7afccec89ddca6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251072ef05a2f49da9d7afccec89ddca6\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe. Kia ora t\u0101tau katoa e te Whare. \u0100, ka mihi r\u0101 ki a t\u0101tau i a t\u0101tau e w\u0101nanga nei i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire e p\u0101 ana ki te waipiro.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Thank you. Greetings to us all, the House. I acknowledge us as we address this of the bills here relating to alcohol.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI am pleased to take a short call on behalf of the M\u0101ori Party to raise a couple of issues in this final reading of the alcohol reform legislation. I listened to the member Charles Chauvel and his mention of Doug Sellman. I, too, want to acknowledge the background work that he did with the M\u0101ori Party in providing us with some solid information and statistics, which were helpful, certainly, to the Supplementary Order Papers that I presented to the House as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EUp until this point in time we have supported\u2014pretty much\u2014the general passage of this legislation. It has been wide-ranging legislation covering off a fairly substantive change to some legislation to do with alcohol, and that has been pleasing, because it has opened the door up to the big discussion. We supported it along the way because we believed that we gained some concessions to the M\u0101ori Party and also, as I say, to allow that debate to happen. But we really do believe that we must focus on the long-term outlook, the intergenerational shift, which will ensure that we reduce alcohol-related harm right across the wh\u0101nau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe advocated for significant investment in the sector, targeted at alcohol treatment services. We were pleased that the Government moved in this way with a $10 million announcement. We also supported the proposal for a cross-agency advertising and sponsorship review, as recommended by the Law Commission. We are particularly supportive of the Law Commission\u2019s advice that alcohol advertising and sponsorship could be addressed by limiting product information to sort of a plain format, pretty much like what the Hon Tariana Turia has done in terms of addressing issues of tobacco and health-related issues with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe are, however, disappointed that we have not gone far enough. In that regard we say that we have not gone far enough because we have attempted, through the M\u0101ori Party, to look at what we have termed \u201Csocial hazards\u201D: one to do with alcohol, of course, and the others to do with tobacco and gambling. The Hon Tariana Turia has certainly looked at the whole issue of tobacco, and plain packaging is coming our way, I hope, in the near future. The gambling legislation in my name is a member\u2019s bill, and we are hoping to have some major changes in respect of the legislation on that. And, of course, here we are talking about the alcohol reforms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe question was asked: why is the M\u0101ori Party taking a pretty strong stand on what we have termed social hazards? It is pretty much because it recognises that they are having a huge effect on M\u0101ori society throughout the country. It is not as if it has just happened; it has been over time. For those who did not know, M\u0101ori society is one of the few societies where the history prior to the arrival of the settler group was that we were basically free of alcohol. Indeed, the term that is used for alcohol now is waipiro, which is, basically, \u201Cstinking water\u201D. Although people do get off on a bit of alcohol now and again, the effects have been pretty traumatic and manifest themselves in all sorts of ways, which have been debated in the Chamber as we have gone through this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe are disappointed that the local alcohol plans remain voluntary. The liberalisation of alcohol sales, opening up supermarket sales, extending opening hours, reducing the minimum purchase age to 18, and increased numbers and increased densities of outlets have all pretty much compounded the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESo we tended to put our energies into tabling various amendments, which included the following: make the proximity to a school a criterion for determining liquor licences, and adding M\u0101ori representation to local committees\u2014the local committees to be expanded out by one person, to accommodate mana whenua representation. We wanted to limit the visibility of advertising in grocery stores and grocery shops, so that the products are not visible in the store but they are able to be sold. We talked about eliminating advertising and sponsorship of alcohol, except inside, on licensed premises, bars, etc. We talked about a sinking-lid policy on off-licence retailers and liquor stores within territorial authorities. Basically, the replacement of existing stores is the only exception, and only if there is not another liquor store within 5 kilometres of that store. We talked about changing trading hours to 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. for off-site premises and 10 a.m. to 3 a.m. for on-site premises with a one-way door restriction period between 1 a.m. and 3 a.m., and a minimum price per unit of alcohol sold, which will be set by the Ministry of Health. This follows a similar model that they proposed in Scotland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESo those are some of the amendments that we put up. Unfortunately, most of them got slammed down and did not go too far, despite the fact that there was relatively positive support across the House for some of those general ideas, and we had slight variations on those themes. The legislation could have gone a little further, and we are voting against it at this third reading because we think we could have done much better. We need to start thinking about the bigger picture of alcohol harm. It is not just about what we drink, it is about how we drink, it is about who we drink with, and we need to take the communities with us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIn closing, one of the recommendations from He T\u0113t\u0113 Kura: M\u0101ori Addiction Treatment 1980-2008 tells us that there are three specific aspects to how we can work together to reduce and prevent alcohol-related harm. They are to build, strengthen, and maintain links with wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, iwi, and the community and the sector around the country; secondly, explicitly foster a collective wh\u0101nau approach in the M\u0101ori addiction treatment sector and workforce; and, finally, work more as a unified and collective sector to achieve wh\u0101nau ora for M\u0101ori with addiction-related issues and problems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIf we were able to move in that direction to deal with some of the issues that we clearly have to address in terms of alcohol, the M\u0101ori Party would have been far more positive about giving support to this legislation. Sure, there are some good things in it that address some of the issues that have long been out there, but we think we could have done better, bearing in mind it is probably going to be a while before we come back to address the issue of alcohol in the future. It would have been an awesome opportunity if Parliament was able to look at some of those amendments that I and other members of the House were able to put up, but it was not to be, this time. We hope that the debate on record now serves as a good platform for future debate, should a further attempt come up in the near future around reforming our alcohol laws. At this point in time we will not be supporting this legislation at its third reading. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022f89ad82a09494bb9a1bade2959a21d8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f89ad82a09494bb9a1bade2959a21d8c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u00225d77f30cb14c4ed4b21e79045bcd41b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d77f30cb14c4ed4b21e79045bcd41b2\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E I have no joy in speaking on this legislation. I think of a young woman who, at the beginning of this year, after a party in the early hours of the morning slipped and fell on to the motorway in M\u0101ngere and got rammed by a truck. Now I think of how many people will die\u2014alcohol related\u2014during the holiday period. There is no joy in this, given that many people drink and alcohol has become a normal, natural part of our enjoyment of social engagements. It is of no joy for me to vote against the legislation, given the liquor industry provides jobs for our workforce. Jobs are what our communities desperately seek, especially at this time with close to 300,000 New Zealanders who are jobless and a 13-year high unemployment rate of 7.3 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge, though, my colleague Lianne Dalziel, who has persistently argued and advocated on the issues advanced by the community on this matter. I also want to acknowledge my Labour colleagues and other parties who have developed Supplementary Order Papers to promote significant change and to improve this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI think all of us have attempted to highlight to this Government the state of the national crisis on our hands. Despite what the liquor industry and this Government say, the community knows the true state of this national alcohol crisis. Twenty-five percent of New Zealand drinkers are heavy drinkers, a third of all police apprehensions involve alcohol, half of serious violent crimes relate to alcohol, 60 different medical conditions are caused by heavy drinking, up to 75 percent of adult presentations at emergency departments on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights are alcohol related, there are over 300 alcohol-related offences every day and over 500 serious and fatal injury traffic crashes every year, at least 600 children are born each year with foetal alcohol spectrum disorder, there are over 1,000 alcohol deaths every year, and more than 17,000 years of life per year are lost through alcohol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EMore than two-thirds of alcohol in New Zealand is being consumed at harmful or hazardous levels by about 700,000 heavy drinkers\u2014the total population of Wellington and Christchurch combined. There are more than 70,000 alcohol-related physical and sexual assaults each year in our homes, and a third of police apprehensions involve alcohol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ELike tobacco, alcohol is a killer. Twenty people are dying every week from alcohol-related problems\u2014half from injuries and other acute deaths related to intoxication, and the other half from various chronic diseases. This includes our three most common cancers: breast cancer, prostate cancer, and bowel cancer. Second-hand alcohol causes brain damage in up to 3,000 unborn babies every year. This, together with alcohol-related violence, poverty, and neglect suffered by children, constitutes a serious breach of the human rights of New Zealand\u2019s most vulnerable citizens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe alcohol industry will argue that it wants responsible drinkers, but the industry and the supermarkets and dairies actively target our young people. Every advertisement seen by a young person aged 15 to 24 years increases by 1 percent the number of drinks they consume. The alcohol industry wants customers for life, similar to the tobacco industry. The community responded with marches, petitions, newspaper articles, letters to the editor, and documentaries all pointing to the harm caused by alcohol\u2014[Bell rung]\u2014that was fast\u2014in our communities. We have a national alcohol crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ELet me just say that the liquor industry argued personal responsibility, but it will not tell New Zealanders that alcohol is highly intoxicating, alcohol is a neurotoxin that can cause brain damage, alcohol can directly cause aggression, and a lot of the alcohol industry\u2019s profit comes from heavy drinking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ELet me just conclude. Our children, who are the most vulnerable, are targeted by this industry, and under this legislation they will continue to be the targets. When I weigh up the benefits promoted by the liquor industry and the improvements that the Government says it has made in this legislation against the harm and the cost of alcohol-related harm in our communities, the harm and the cost of harm far outweigh any benefit to society. I will be voting against this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u00222d123021d5e643f8805a0919222dc79d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d123021d5e643f8805a0919222dc79d\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. I rise to take a call to vote in support of these three bills, the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Bill, the Local Government (Alcohol Reform) Amendment Bill, and the Summary Offences (Alcohol Reform) Amendment Bill. The Green Party will be voting in support, but we are deeply disappointed. The three bills we have in front of the House are a missed opportunity. These three bills fail to tackle the big issues facing our country, and they are significant issues. What we are talking about is New Zealand\u2019s cultural drinking problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EAs we know, the first part of dealing with the problem\u2014[Interruption] It is a\u2014oh, we have had a good interjection from the public lobby. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7d0356909bb4759ba2b0bd01da72dd8\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Just one moment. Can security just find out where that is coming from, please? I am going to stop the clock, Mr Hughes. [Interruption] Oh, is it in the Chamber here? Well, I will ask the member, if he wants to use it, to go out into the lobbies. I will invite\u2014[Interruption] Order! I did stop the clock, so\u2014Gareth Hughes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea36eed1e3c841ceb364726436f5e523\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. That might be the best contribution by the member Brendon Horan we will see today! As I was saying, the country has got a cultural drinking problem. It is important that we acknowledge it. You know, all of us see it in our towns, in our cities, as we go out on the weekends and sometimes accompany the police. We see it on the news, we see it in the media, we see it at public events. In my town a third of the crime occurs down the \u201Cgolden mile\u201D\u2014down Courtenay Place\u2014which some of our members are more noted for patronising than others, but this is where the bulk of our crime in my city of Wellington happens, and it happens, of course, because of the alcohol problems we see, particularly on Saturday and Friday nights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe know it is causing real harm. We have heard some heartbreaking stories over the course of this debate. We have heard some heartbreaking stories in the Justice and Electoral Committee. We know that alcohol in New Zealand is responsible each year for 1,000 deaths\u20141,000 people\u2019s deaths can be attributed to, and no doubt were avoidable because of, the role of alcohol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EMr Assistant Speaker Tisch, you picked me up in my Committee stage speech on mentioning the intoxication of members that I had seen. That got quite wide play in the media, and I think it is symptomatic of the fact that we still cannot have an open and honest discussion around alcohol\u2014the fact it is happening. I think sometimes we like to keep our heads in the sand and pretend it is happening somewhere else, but it is happening to our country. It is happening to our towns, our schools, our communities, and, unfortunately, sometimes to the poorest and most vulnerable Kiwis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EAs I said, the Green Party will be voting in support, but we lament that the measures in this legislation are not going to be the most effective that they could be. There are three big missed opportunities. The first is we see the Law Commission report there\u2014a substantial tome. It is a real once-in-a-generation opportunity to take the momentum from this well-considered, well-researched, substantive report. It is a missed opportunity, because there was genuine cross-party support across this Chamber. We have heard some good things from the Labour Party, some good amendments from the M\u0101ori Party. My colleague Kevin Hague, the Green Party spokesperson on alcohol, put up a number of good amendments. There was a real opportunity to get cross-party support for greater alcohol action. It did not have to fall across the partisan lines that it has, where, sadly, the balance has fallen on less regulation, less action, than what I think people would have wanted. Third was the missed opportunity of genuine public support. The polls are saying that Kiwis do want to see greater action. Really, the once-in-a-generation opportunity to take the work of the Law Commission, the cross-party support, and the public desire for action has been blown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, all the attention was on the smokescreen of the purchase age issue. I am glad we did keep it at 18. I think it was all about avoiding the real issues. It would not have been fair, it would not have been effective at reducing real harm, and, in fact, it was damaging, because it took the focus away from those real issues. It is good to see Parliament use a three-way vote, so that the desire of the majority of members\u2014the largest number of members\u2014could be achieved in the final vote. But what we have failed to address is those real issues: the issues of accessibility, advertising, and intoxicated driving, amongst many others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe know that in the period between 1990 and 2010 there have been 8,000 new alcohol outlets in New Zealand. There are 1,000 alcohol outlets now that sell alcohol 24/7, and it is good that we see that 65 percent of people in the Health Sponsorship Council say that there are too many liquor outlets. We have a real need for action on the accessibility of alcohol. Likewise with advertising, because we have a barrage of it on TV. I understand that annually around $70 million is spent. We know the studies show that numerous people, particularly young people, remember the ads. We have got to remember why the alcohol industry is spending so much money on alcohol advertising, and the simple answer is that it is spending it because it works. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ELastly, intoxicated driving\u2014a real opportunity to move into international norms and lower the blood-alcohol level. We are glad to be voting for alcohol measures but we could go\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdfc53f6062d4763ba480b32c3571290\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdfc53f6062d4763ba480b32c3571290\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u00221704e46c2c8f470abb7478c6889c5217\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221704e46c2c8f470abb7478c6889c5217\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E The member Gareth Hughes, who just resumed his seat, said something about members having had their heads in the sand. I am not sure too many people in this place would disagree with that. Can I just firstly, in this last call, commend the Minister of Justice for the work and also the Justice and Electoral Committee. It is a substantive\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4a4e821793b46b88639a7c7add6e1ec\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: What about your son coming on a Wednesday and making out it\u2019s a Thursday, and putting my mother\u2019s grave on TV?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c3b1629948a42eb85a488437dcb96a9\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014piece of work. At least it is the member speaking and not his cellphone on this occasion. It is a substantive body of work, because this is a substantive problem in this country. It is, by volume, one of the biggest problems, if not the biggest drug problem. By consequence, probably not so. If we had 85 percent of the population smoking P, we would probably see some slightly different consequences, but none the less this is a country that has challenges around substance abuse, and alcohol is at the top of that list. Problems like this will never be solved by this place. They will never be solved by the police; they will be solved by the community. The appropriate tools are what are required for the community, and the appropriate culture is something that only the community can foster, with the assistance of messages from this place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThere has been some discussion in the House about the purchase age. For me, it was 20. Why? Because I believe that so many parents in this country believe that lowering the age was the cause of the problem. In all likelihood it is probably not, but in their minds it was, and the overwhelming dissatisfaction from members of the public about the fact that the age was not raised to 20 says very clearly that they think that that is an important aspect of this issue. Whether or not it is, the point is that that 85 percent of the population\u2014we need those people on our side, because this issue will take the community to solve, and those people need to know that they have our backing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThe ironic part of that is that two members who took calls, Lianne Dalziel and Iain Lees-Galloway, took a fairly prominent position on the fact that we had gone soft and we were getting this all wrong. They both voted for 18 because they do not see that those parents need empowering and that we needed to support them, and, even more ironically, what you find is that both those members have some very strong views on the decriminalisation of cannabis under the guise of medicinal marijuana. If you turn to some of the blogs, you see some really interesting commentary. One of them, from Iain Lees-Galloway, said: \u201CWorth having a good read of this to take it all in.\u201D, when referring to the Law Commission\u2019s report on the Misuse of Drugs Act. \u201CLianne Dalziel and I are as keen to hear your thoughts as the Law Commission is.\u201D They are very keen to hear the thoughts on the decriminalisation, or liberalising the use, of cannabis, a drug that does so much harm in this place\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290188db71a254eca9e06cbfd0a771edd\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225557db8baed34cdbbd09cc8d6674292e\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and stand on that side of the House and criticise this Government for the role that we have taken with regard to getting the right balance and right measures. My challenge is to the people in this House and to this community and to New Zealand is to make sure that we pick up a challenge and help change that culture. This legislation will take us there. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002227da26b936034ad09133225cd1ace06d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 32 (Ardern J, Chauvel, Clark, Cosgrove, Cunliffe, Curran, Dalziel, Dyson, Faafoi, Fenton, Goff, Hipkins, Horomia, Huo, Jones, King A, Lees-Galloway, Little, Mackey, Mahuta, Mallard, Moroney, O\u2019Connor D, Parker, Prasad, Robertson G, Shearer, Street, Tirikatene, Twyford, Wall, Woods); Green Party 14; ACT New Zealand 1; Mana 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 13\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 2 (Robertson R, Sio); New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; Independent: Horan 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000442\u0022\u003ELocal Government (Alcohol Reform) Amendment Bill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000443\u0022\u003ESummary Offences (Alcohol Reform) Amendment Bill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a9c5cae8276b431aae6efcbccf7d65da\u0022\u003EPrisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227823869ed1c946ecb2ddcbd3e614e16d\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022412be32253024ed7910aa725cc0f938d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022412be32253024ed7910aa725cc0f938d\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Justice and Electoral Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the select committee reports back to the House on Monday, 15 April 2013. The Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill makes three major changes to the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005. It repeals the sunset clause in that Act to make it permanent, it suspends the civil limitation period for victims\u2019 claims while money is being held by the Ministry of Justice, and it clarifies for the avoidance of doubt the application of the Act to unlawful detention claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005 was passed by the previous Labour Government, and has two main objectives: to ensure that financial compensation is treated as a remedy of last resort for prisoners whose human rights have been breached, and to recognise that victims should have the first claim against any such compensation awarded to prisoners. The Act provides clear statutory guidelines for the rare circumstances in which courts can award compensation for a breach of a prisoner\u2019s rights. For example, prisoners must make use of the existing complaints mechanisms available to them, and if other remedies can provide effective redress, they must be used instead of financial compensation. This ensures that compensation is reserved for exceptional cases where it is the only appropriate remedy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIt is important to note, to avoid confusion on this point, that when I say \u201Cprisoners\u201D, I am using that term to refer to all persons under the control or supervision of the State. The Act applies to claims made by prisoners, whether sentenced or remanded; people on community-based sentences or home detention; people subject to conditions under the Parole Act 2002; persons arrested and detained under the Armed Forces Discipline Act 1971 who are awaiting release or trial; or members of the armed forces who are service detainees or service prisoners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIf compensation is awarded to a prisoner or if a settlement agreement is entered into, the Act requires that the agency responsible for the breach must pay the money to the Secretary for Justice. Deductions are made first by the Ministry of Justice to pay any legal aid debt related to the compensation claim and any outstanding reparation owed to victims in any earlier orders under the Act in favour of victims. The Act then allows victims of a prisoner to claim against the money through a simplified victims\u2019 claims process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThis process provides an easy and cost-effective way for victims to take a civil claim in circumstances where the offender has the means to pay at least some of the damages, and also, importantly, when the Crown has control of the money. The ministry works with agencies, courts, and victims\u2019 advisers to identify possible victims and contact them. Notices of payments to prisoners are also published in the Gazette, on the ministry\u2019s website, and in newspapers. A victims\u2019 special claims tribunal then determines any claims received. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe Act will effectively expire on 1 July 2013, due to the sunset clauses contained in it. If the Act expired, the restrictions on the awards, compensations, and simplified victims\u2019 claims process would no longer apply to prisoners\u2019 claims lodged from that date. The Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill will, therefore, repeal the sunset clauses in the Act and make the current regime permanent. It is important that we keep the clear statutory guidelines on awarding compensation and that victims continue to have an easy way to make a civil claim if prisoners receive compensation payments. In addition, the bill replaces the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Redirecting Prisoner Compensation) Amendment Bill, which was introduced last year. That bill has now been discharged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe new bill reflects the change of direction I signalled in October. I indicated that I would rethink the redirection bill and seek the views of other parties. The bill will make sure victims will continue to benefit from the current regime, while also recognising that we need to strike a balance between victims\u2019 rights and the legitimate claims of prisoners whose human rights have been breached. The bill ensures this system is fair and balanced, and avoids any unintended injustices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EAdditionally, the bill ensures that victims\u2019 ability to bring claims within the civil limitation period is not affected by any administrative delays. It stops the clock on the civil limitation period on victims\u2019 claims while the Ministry of Justice makes the necessary deductions from the compensation to pay legal aid and existing debts to victims. This means that victims of the prisoner will not be locked out of the simplified claims process due to administrative delays. The bill also includes a clarification for the avoidance of doubt that the Act applies to prisoners\u2019 claims of unlawful detention. These claims arise from time to time, generally when a prisoner is held beyond their statutory release date due to an administrative error. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe underlying purpose of the Act is to require offenders to address the harm that they have caused to their victims before receiving the benefit of any compensation for breaches of their rights by the Crown. Abuse by people in power is not acceptable in relation to prisoners, and it is something that we take very seriously. The Government has great confidence in the ongoing integrity and professionalism of Department of Corrections staff working in New Zealand prisons. However, if breaches do occur, we should respond fairly, in a way that appropriately balances the rights of prisoners and their victims. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u00222b1a5599b73d4bd898d835b1e3f39926\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b1a5599b73d4bd898d835b1e3f39926\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to begin by recognising the professionalism of the Department of Corrections and the enormous efforts that the management of that department has gone to over the last decade, in particular, to really lift the game of the performance of its staff, particularly its custodial staff. It has been a privilege over the last year to have visited I think all but four or five of the Department of Corrections\u2019 facilities and prisons around the country, and to be able to see for myself this improvement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe history of the legislation of which this Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill is the latest chapter is that when the Hon Phil Goff was the Minister of Justice in the previous Labour-led Government, there were abuses of prisoners by prison officers. There was litigation on the subject of those abuses, and the court held that those abuses were systemic in nature. The Department of Corrections needed to take action to address that systemic abuse, and I believe there is evidence that it has done so. In the course of the litigation, the court eventually, when the matter was taken on appeal, restricted the levels of compensation that would be properly payable to inmates whose rights had been abused by the Department of Corrections. But before that happened, Parliament had moved in the way that the Minister of Justice outlined in her introductory speech on this bill to create a regime that would provide for the payment of compensation to those in custody, and also a regime where those payments could be accessed by the victims\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269dacd57e81242acb82b9738b1f19f4f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt the honourable member. The time has come for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break. This debate is interrupted. I shall resume the Chair at 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee43f6fc4d25472d9dd0838e6ed57d2e\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: Before the dinner break I had gone through the history of the series of bills and Acts to which this bill is the successor, and I was about to make the point that the original legislation, the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act, because it was experimental in nature and because it was responding to a particular problem at a particular time, unusually for our parliamentary practice contained a sunset clause. I think that is an indication that this House was very much enacting the original Act on a wait-and-see basis. Is this novel approach going to be one that we want to persist with? Is it going to work? Is it going to be practical? Is it going to be effective? I think the history of the legislation is instructive. There has been a low level and a low number of claims that have been made under it. So when the Minister came to me last year and asked me whether, given the approaching date of the sunset clause\u2019s effectiveness, it would be in order to extend the Act for another year in order to negotiate between the parties in the House what the form of the new legislation\u2014if any\u2014on this basis ought to be, I said that I thought that would be fine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI think the issue now is that we need to look at the adequacy of what is being proffered to the House. I have two problems with it. They are problems that both the Hon Phil Goff and I foreshadowed extensively in the debates around the legislation that extended the sunset clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe first problem is this. This is supposed to be victim-centric legislation. This is supposed to be legislation that says from this Parliament to those who suffer the horrendous consequences of crime that we want to do something to show that we understand that that is an awful situation to be in, and that they have a right, where possible, to be made whole. This legislation does that by saying that if a person in custody or under supervision in custodial terms receives a payment from the Crown, then a procedure exists by which that offender\u2019s victims can recover some money from, effectively, the offender in token of the suffering that they have gone through. That, on its face, sounds really good, and it is something we have supported. But the question has to be asked: why stop there? What happens if an offender receives some other form of windfall that is not from the Crown? What if the offender receives a bequest or a legacy while in custody or detention, or otherwise under supervision? What if they receive a lottery win? These questions are not addressed, and yet they ought to be. This is supposed to be legislation about those who suffer the adverse consequences of crime. If we are serious about putting in place a regime that looks after people in that situation and does seek to make them whole, we as a Parliament should not be concerned about the source of the windfall payment that comes into the hands of the offender. We should simply look at whether or not there is such a payment, and then subject it to the process in the bill. This legislation does not do that. It is, for all its masquerading as victim-centric, actually punitive in respect of the offender.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI think that brings me to the second objection that I would raise in this debate, and it is this. We have always had a tradition in this country and in the common law traditions that we have inherited against double jeopardy. The law and the constitution say that there should be only one punishment for a crime. Well, if that is right, then it is wrong in principle to say to an offender that not only will we take away your liberty but if during the course of your time in custody or supervision you come into a payment, we also will take money away from you and pay it to someone else. So the second problem I have with this legislation is that there is no recognition\u2014and this is something that the Minister told the New Zealand Herald last month that she would take pains to address and has not\u2014that there is a real danger here of punishing people twice. I think there should be a provision that says that if somebody is in custody and they come into funds that are then to be paid to the victims of their offences, that should weigh as to their penalty. The Parole Board, for example, should have to take that into account in deciding whether or not they ought to serve their full period of a custodial or other sentence. And yet there is no recognition of that principle in this legislation. So I think we need to take real care as to how we proceed in this case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThis legislation, as I said earlier, was always experimental. It was always a response to a particular series of circumstances at a particular time. That is why the original Act had a sunset clause. We then saw the High Court, the Court of Appeal, and the Supreme Court address the cases that led to the particular concern. At the same time, we saw the Department of Corrections smarten up its act considerably. Those two matters beg the question of whether the legislation remains necessary. And then we have these two other flaws: the fact that although it appears to be dressed in victim-centric clothing, this legislation is actually very much about doling out extra punishment, and it does, therefore, offend an important principle. Finally, on top of that we had the assurance from the Minister that there would be consultation about the form of this legislation. There has been none. For all those reasons, the Labour Opposition will not be supporting this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00229f24a182695449e9a268fc507922d95e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f24a182695449e9a268fc507922d95e\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E It seems to be my permanent lot in the current Parliament to follow Mr Chauvel every time I speak in a debate. He is a very thoughtful member. In fact, I have to say that my mother\u2014who is probably watching at this moment, as she is a bit of a parliamentary addict\u2014seems to think that Mr Chauvel gets every speaking call that the Opposition is allocated. Be that as it may, I think that this bill, the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill, needs to be seen in the wider context of the Government\u2019s commitment to putting victims at the heart of our justice system. That is not just a slogan; that is a very real commitment, and I think it is something that the New Zealand public are very anxious to ensure that we can achieve. National is firmly committed to building a safer New Zealand. It is one of our core commitments that we campaigned on last time. It is a core focus of our Better Public Services strategy. We have embarked on a very comprehensive programme of reform in order to protect communities, to prevent crime, and, as I say, to put victims first. So, as we look at this particular bill, which I acknowledge is actually quite a long time in evolving, we need to remember that that is very much a core focus of it. I just remind Mr Chauvel of that, in light of some of his previous comments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIt is aimed at striking the right balance between retaining support for victims, while at the same time maintaining fairness to prisoners. The latter part of the equation is often not a very popular point with the wider public, but, nevertheless, in a civilised and decent society it is something that we should pay due respect to. I think it is important for those who may not have been listening to this debate before the dinner adjournment just to explain that the bill makes the existing regime, which is due to expire on 1 July next year, a permanent one. As I have said, this issue is one that requires balance, sensitivity, and a clear explanation, given the strong public interest in matters of compensation. It is always something that strikes a lot of public comment, whenever compensation, particularly for prisoners, is in the news.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E The Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005\u2014of course, that was a measure of the previous Government\u2014responded to the concern that offenders should not receive compensation for wrongful treatment without first repaying the debt that they owe for the harm that they caused their victims. I would imagine that there would be widespread support for that particular sentiment. It is important that victims continue to have an easy way to make a civil claim if prisoners do receive compensation payments. The whole point of this new bill is to ensure that the system is fair and balanced, and will not lead to unintended injustices. After all, victims of crime are in the system entirely without any fault and entirely without any choice in the matter. They have to deal often with the considerable financial, emotional, and physical effects of crime long after it has been committed. In fact, we know that there are many who are permanently traumatised by that experience, so provisions for better compensation of victims have been an absolute priority for this Government. I have to say that fairness is not possible, because the only thing that could possibly be fair is for them not to have become the victims of crime in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBut I am pleased and proud that National established a victims\u2019 compensation scheme in our previous term in office. A few people mocked the establishment of the $50 offender levy on all offenders, regardless of the crime that they commit, but I am delighted to say it has been an unqualified success. It has worked incredibly well. In the first year, considerably more was taken in than had been expected. It is a levy that is in addition to any sentence or court order that is imposed. We have used that new levy to expand services and support for victims of crime, particularly of serious crimes, and their families. More than 4,000 victims or their families have received extra support in the first year of the levy, and the levy has funded 13 different services for victims of serious crime. There is quite a lot that it has gone towards. We have also taken numerous steps to protect victims: 6,000 families have been protected through police safety orders. Victims now have more say in impact statements, and that is something that they warmly welcome in the court system. We are improving the victim notification system, and we are setting up a victims\u2019 centre to improve the information and services that victims receive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAs I say, this is a measure that needs to be taken in the wider context. It is about trying to get the balance right. I dare say\u2014and particularly having listened to the comments Mr Chauvel has made\u2014that there will be some submissions, and we will take careful note of them when it comes before the Justice and Electoral Committee. But I believe that this is a measure that will enjoy widespread support, and I welcome its introduction this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00222bf916ce0f9a4ada9669edb51b16cb38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bf916ce0f9a4ada9669edb51b16cb38\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E It is with some regret that I rise to oppose this bill, the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill. It is not because I do not believe that we should have victim-centred legislation\u2014I believe that we should\u2014but because I believe that this legislation is a thoroughly inadequate way of ensuring that offenders genuinely address the wrongs that they have done to their victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI say that from the perspective of the Minister of Justice who put in place the original piece of legislation, the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005. I did that at a time when we were dealing with the residue of a Department of Corrections that had gone beyond the law and had breached the responsibilities that it had for the proper care of prisoners. Prisoners are there. They are locked up. They are locked up because they have committed terrible crimes. They are there because they deserve to be there, but in our society we operate a system whereby the agencies of State are not exempt from the law; they have to operate under it. When they breach the law they should be called to heel on that. But I was faced with a situation arising out of what the Department of Corrections put in place called the behaviour modification regime. That regime was found\u2014it was started under National and continued under Labour\u2014to be in breach of international requirements on us. The fear that I had was that there were some lawyers who were keen on goldmining this case to make a lot of money for themselves and to give a bit of it to the inmates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bd673c54883449a9cdaf0332393e381\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Outrageous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248cfe747661a492eb888679682a5c4bc\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: It is outrageous, Mr Chauvel. I am sure you recognise that most lawyers would not sink to such depths, but unfortunately it happens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWhat worried me was when I looked at the individual cases of the inmates who were covered by the Taunoa case. They had done horrendous things to their victims and not one of them had paid a penny in reparation or restitution to the victims. The reasons for that were pretty straightforward: they came from dysfunctional backgrounds, they had no savings, and they had no income, because they were going to be locked up for a long time. The victims got nothing, and suddenly the offenders, because of the Department of Corrections breaching its responsibilities, were going to get a large handout. I thought that that was fundamentally wrong. I just thought it does not make sense. Yes, the State has been wrong in its actions, but why should these guys get the money and their own victims not get a cent in compensation? It seemed wrong to me, and I brought this legislation in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI have got to say to the members opposite that the National Party in Opposition opposed it and made some outrageous statements that we should ignore all United Nations conventions about the treatment of prisoners. It is singing a different song in Government, and that is probably a good thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWhat I wanted to see was what I have always believed in: a system of restorative justice. Restorative justice is probably the best form of justice because it requires when somebody harms another person that there is a responsibility on the offender to put things to right for the victim to the extent that they are able to. There are a lot of different ways in which you can put things right. Sometimes it is by showing genuine remorse and apologising and asking for forgiveness. That can be shallow and it can mean nothing or it can be genuine. When it is genuine it has a real impact on the victim. The Samoan culture, for example, has a practice called ifoga, where the offender has to go and cover himself with a fine mat and sit in front of the victim\u2019s house until the victim is prepared to forgive him. We might be disparaging about those things, but that produces a real form of natural justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe other way you can do it is by restitution and reparation. Money does not solve everything, but if a victim is suffering financial consequences from what the offender has done to them, getting restitution actually does make a difference. It is a concrete form of payment from the offender to the victim, and that should happen. Of course, it does not happen, for the reasons that I talked about before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI was not sure how this new regime was going to work. I therefore put some sunset clauses into it. I wanted to see how the thing would work. If it was effective then you might continue it. If it needed improving because it did not come up to the standards that we wanted, we could make those changes, or we might decide simply that after the Taunoa case this was not a frequent enough event to actually have special legislation to cover it. The idea was that there would be a proper review of the legislation. Well, sadly, National, after 2008, in Government did not do that review. We were caught in the situation last year where the legislation was going to expire and there was nothing in place that would improve the situation for the victim. So the Labour Party in Opposition did the responsible thing and said to the Minister: \u201CWe will work with you. We will extend this legislation for a year until we do that review. We will work together for the good of the victims in this country, and we will try to find a better way of doing it.\u201D Maybe Charles Chauvel and I were naive, but we actually accepted the Minister at her word. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI have got to say to this House that the Minister breached her undertaking and her promise. There was no consultation. There was no review that I can actually see\u2014any meaningful review that even took place. So we wasted the time last year in extending the legislation. There is still no review, no consultation, and no attempt to reach across the House and say: \u201CLet\u2019s work together and get something that really does work properly for victims.\u201D I think that that is a disgrace, and I think on that basis it is impossible to support this piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EBut I want to still do my best to be constructive for the Minister and say that this is still an opportunity to do the right thing for victims across the board. I am not interested only in helping that tiny number of victims who are in a situation where their offender gets a payment from the State because the State has breached its obligations. That covers a tiny number of people. Every day I read about and I talk to people about a situation where the victims are left penniless and the offender does nothing for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EOne of the worst examples of that is in the case of white-collar offenders. White-collar offenders come from the top levels of society often. They are the accountants and the lawyers and the financiers. They live pretty well. But they get greedy and they get reckless, or both, and they rip people off. I have got people in my electorate who have lost their life-savings to white-collar offenders. You know, to give credit to the courts, there have been some reasonably tough sentences brought down, but in the end those offenders will do a couple of years in prison and they will come out. We have seen it happen in the past. They will come out, and because they have got the education and the contacts and the backing, they will make a lot of money again. Everything will be sweet for them, but my victims are living out the last days of their lives with their savings destroyed by these crooks who ripped them off. Those crooks go back into society and they never have to pay the money back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWhat makes it even worse\u2014what makes it even worse\u2014is that they are protected by trust laws. They go into prison, they make no payment in reparation, or too little payment, but they have their money protected and/or hidden in family trusts. So they come out of prison and they have got the money there, because it has been protected, and they have got the skills, the education, and the contacts to make a lot more money, and the victim is locked out on the outside. I say to this Government that that is what it should be looking at. It should be looking at a much wider scheme that ensures that those who have committed offences against society and against their victims are required to set things right for their victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThis bill does nothing of that sort. This bill is a cop-out. It is second rate. It is a broken promise by the Minister, who did not honour her undertaking to consult with the Opposition on this. She has sat on her hands and done nothing. She brought this legislation, which does practically nothing, back into the House. We hear the fine-sounding speeches from members of the Government talking about victims\u2019 rights, but with a piece of legislation that hardly touches on victims\u2019 rights or setting things right for the victims of our society when the offenders should be made to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI say to the Government that this legislation is not good enough. We are opposing it because it does not do what it should be doing for the victims. I ask the Government finally to honour the promise that it made across the House, and bring in proper legislation that would do the right thing for victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u00229295c1e818644e3795570c59abb07ef5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229295c1e818644e3795570c59abb07ef5\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Overall, it is disappointing that here we are, on the second to last sitting day of the year, in the middle of December, allegedly moving into the season of goodwill and good cheer, and we are once again debating the latest iteration of this dismal legislation, the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill, which seeks to somehow serve victims by punishing victims. We have heard a lot about victims\u2019 rights, but the people at the heart of this legislation\u2014people in the State\u2019s custody whose human rights are abused, people who are mistreated while incredibly vulnerable in the custody of this State\u2014are also victims. We are not hearing too much about those. This legislation and the preceding legislation seem to establish a hierarchy of victimhood. Frankly, I do not accept that around something as fundamental as human rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIt is true that the Greens actually supported the initial 2005 legislation. We opposed it at its first reading. We were persuaded to support it at its third and final reading, on the basis that it would be short term\u2014that it would have an expiry date; a sunset clause was built into it\u2014and also that there would be a comprehensive overhaul and an inquiry into how we can deal better with victims and make our criminal justice system genuinely victim-centric, with a genuinely restorative approach in which we can heal wounds, make some restitution to people, and, hopefully, reduce the likelihood of reoffending. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI think the Government ought to take pause to think. We have just heard from the gentleman who was the Minister of Justice at the time this bill was put in place, the Hon Phil Goff\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d888a552931846f283f04e3b6d7e47ad\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a long time since I\u2019ve been accused of being a gentleman, David.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281c83399d9424a2b8dd0b81ae5df51a7\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The party that initiated this legislation, the Minister who led it, and a party that supported it have now turned against it. It was an experiment. It may have had value for a short time in a very specific situation. Mr Goff is quite right: those offenders who were tortured at Mt Eden prison\u2014and they were tortured; that was the finding of the court\u2014were not pleasant people. They were very, very tough people. They were quite unwell, about as unpleasant as can be. It was a unique, one-off situation that this bill was responding to. The Government is using as a justification for the embedding of this dreadful legislation as a permanent feature of our legislative canon that the public wants it so. It is suggesting that the public demands that victims must be given compensation and that prisoners ought never to receive any. I simply do not accept that. What limited research there is available tells us that the public is actually much less punitive than one would imagine, if you look at the corrections and other forms of legislation that have passed through this House in the last 10 years or so. Anecdotally, we all know\u2014and I talk to people a lot about this stuff, about prisons and corrections and the like\u2014and, yes, if you open a conversation about that, immediately the knee-jerk reaction from people involves locking doors and throwing away keys. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIf you scratch one inch below that surface, New Zealanders are actually much more reasonable than that. New Zealanders will listen to a well-constructed argument. Very few offenders go away for ever\u2014only the worst of the worst. We know that most of the people in our prisons ultimately will come out. If the message we are giving those people while they are in jail is that they have no human rights and they have no right to receive compensation if their human rights are compromised by the State, what is that message telling them? It is that they are less than human, that they do not have the normal rights of a citizen. It is brutalising and it is dehumanising, and we will all suffer the consequences of that when these people are finally released back into society. The likelihood of those people being genuinely reintegrated back into the mainstream and becoming good citizens is much diminished if they are subject to this sort of legislation and the expectations that are built into it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe regulatory impact statement is a very interesting read, and I recommend it to anyone who has not read it. It has a series of options. Option one is to allow the status quo\u2014allow the existing legislation simply to expire. The regulatory impact statement tells us that in the short term that would expose the Government\u2014the State\u2014to some financial risk. Inevitably, there would be some further claims against the original legislation. But why do we not simply accept that risk, take that cost up front, and then move on and develop some genuinely victim-based legislation? Our integrity and our reputation as a country that acknowledges and respects human rights are worth a great deal more than any short-term cost that might be imposed if this legislation is allowed to expire. There have, after all, been something like only 25 awards that have been subject to victim claims since 2005. There are another 15 or so in the offing. We are talking about, in total figures, some few hundreds of thousands of dollars. In the scheme of things it is rats and mice. It is not significant numbers; it is pennies. It is too cheap a price to sell ourselves out for\u2014to sell our reputation and our integrity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EClause 48 of the regulatory impact statement, as I have said, suggests that letting the Act expire is the best way to ensure that we comply with domestic and international human rights obligations, because this legislation has always been on incredibly shaky ground in terms of our human rights commitments internationally. The Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment is the most obvious one, but not the only one. There have been some very tortured semantics brought to bear to say that, well, yes, prisoners can get compensation, which is what the international agreement demands, but, of course, we know that in reality this legislation endeavours to make it virtually impossible for any prisoner who is offended against to receive genuine restitution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe regulatory impact statement goes on to say that this new option ensures that offenders do not receive financial compensation for wrongful treatment without first having to redress the harm they have caused. I have no particular problem with that. We are not opposed in principle to any money coming to prisoners being disbursed to their victims. But in the way this is done\u2014and Mr Chauvel has outlined the exclusivity of this legislation\u2014other forms of income for prisoners would not be subject to this. Why is it that we want to diminish the constraints on the Crown? There is no doubt that if this legislation is embedded, the likelihood of inmates bringing complaints or bringing cases against the Crown will be diminished. It will be reduced. Why would offenders put themselves through a claim against the Crown knowing full well that they will not get any significant financial redress if and when the Crown is found to have acted against their human rights? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EMoney is not the sum total of restitution, and, again, the model of restorative justice is highly sophisticated. It is complex. It is hard. It takes time. But it is ultimately where we need to go. We need to go to a genuinely restorative place. Extending the life of this legislation, making it permanent, takes us further away from that place. It is a short-term fix now treated as if it is a long-term solution, which it patently is not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EOne remarkable new feature of this bill is that it talks about illegal or wrongful detention, false imprisonment of people, and not only that it will be under the ambit of this bill from here on but that it has been made retrospective. Retrospective legislation is seldom good legislation. It has a place, a very limited place, and this is not one of them. It is extraordinary to suggest that a person who has been kept in prison longer than the court decreed they ought to and who has successfully claimed against the Crown will find that any financial redress will also be subject to this new law. It goes on to say that \u201Cif the courts found unlawful detention claims should not have been subject to the PVC Act\u201D\u2014that is, retrospectively\u2014\u201Cthe Crown may be liable for some payments made in accordance with the Act.\u201D This sort of reflects the consultation, if one can call it that. The Department of Corrections, understandably, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade\u2014I am puzzled as to why they were one of the very privileged few who had opportunity to submit. Treasury is another. This bill reeks of risk aversion in terms of saving that last dollar. It is willing to sell out our integrity, sell out our reputation as a country that respects human rights for everyone. I think the price is far too high. We will continue to oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u00222eab3ee504f14be7984c8f14fde6d67c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222eab3ee504f14be7984c8f14fde6d67c\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a short call on the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill. The purpose of this bill is to make restrictions on awards of compensation and the victims\u2019 claims process in the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005 permanent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EWe make no apologies that we are aiming as a Government to build a safer New Zealand. We have embarked upon a comprehensive programme of reform to protect communities\u2014we all know about the police safety teams and the neighbourhood policing teams\u2014prevent crime, and put victims first. We are staying tough on criminals and keeping record numbers of police on the beat, and we are focusing the justice system on the rights of victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EIt is important to note that the new bill addresses some of the concerns raised by a couple of the previous speakers in that it replaces a previous bill introduced in 2011. The previous bill put any money left over from payments to offenders direct to funding general victims\u2019 services rather than to the prisoner. Consideration by Cabinet led to the decision that the redirection of all the balance of prisoner compensation to the victim support fund would be unfair\u2014Cabinet thought that would be unfair. The bill retains support for victims while at the same time maintains fairness to prisoners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003ESo what are some of the fundamental things in the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005? The Act underlines the rare circumstances in which courts can award financial compensation to prisoners for breaches of their human rights. It allows certain amounts that prisoners owe, such as reparations and legal aid related to their human rights - breach claim, to be deducted from any compensation, and it provides a simplified process for victims to make civil claims against compensation payments before anything is paid to prisoners. Victims can make civil claims seeking redress for the harm they suffered, such as emotional harm, or property damage, or loss caused by an offender. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EThe Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005 responded to the concern that offenders should not receive compensation for wrongful treatment without first repaying the debt they owe for the harm they caused their victims. It is important that victims continue to have an easy way to make a civil claim if prisoners do receive compensation payments, and we believe that this new bill will ensure the system is fair, balanced, and will not lead to any unintended injustice. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u00221b52548544734da98267fa3bf543aa79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b52548544734da98267fa3bf543aa79\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E This bill, the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill, effectively re-enacts the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005 so that it will continue in force beyond the extended sunset date of 1 July 2013 so the restrictions in the current law and the process by which prisoners\u2019 victims can claim for an award made to a prisoner are simply carried over indefinitely. New Zealand First members expected a new, updated piece of legislation rather than a simple re-enactment of the 2005 law, so this bill in this form is something of a surprise to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI would have to say, having just listened to the last speaker, Cam Calder, that his is a view looked at through rose-coloured glasses, and that is not something that New Zealand First will do. It expects a rigorous examination of the current regime in the current legislation to see, firstly, whether it does, in fact, work, and, secondly, whether it achieves its stated objectives. New Zealand First will vote for the bill, but only as far as to the Justice and Electoral Committee, which it wishes to carry out a thorough examination of it. We expect changes, and we expect a genuine review as part of the select committee process. As far as we are concerned, that will mean a full examination of the original 2005 legislation, not just an examination of the provisions of this particular amendment bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI am not saying necessarily, and New Zealand First is not saying, that the current legislation is a failure. I do not know\u2014we do not know\u2014yet whether that is the case. But we do know that the principles must include these things: first of all, being a prisoner means being penalised only by the temporary removal of personal liberty and by incarceration. It does not mean any additional punishment in any way concerning prisoners\u2019 claims. Prisoners should have the opportunity for rehabilitation, education, and reorientation in their direction of their future life. Secondly, it does not mean that there should be any loss of other rights for prisoners. It does not mean the loss of the right to accident compensation for genuine injury or disability from genuine accidents. It does not mean the loss of the right to compensation for significant mistreatment, should that occur. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EOn the other hand, the rights protected in this way must be balanced against the fact that there is considerable concern in the community that prisoners abuse some of those rights, and we all know that there are cases where that has happened. Those are genuinely held concerns in the community, and we must give full attention to them. We certainly should not mollycoddle prisoners, and we should make sure that there are no rorts of the kind that we have seen by some prisoners in the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First will want to make sure that the re-enacted legislation is appropriate in restricting claims by prisoners, because there is a case for that. On the other hand, prisoners can also be victims, and their rights must also be appropriately protected. So that is where the balance must be struck: protecting the rights of prisoners on the one hand and, on the other, meeting community expectations that prisoners\u2019 compensation be accessible by their victims to meet the claims properly awarded made to those victims. The select committee will be the place for all that to be looked at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E One of the matters that I think needs consideration is section 13(1) of the 2005 Act, which says that \u201CNo court or tribunal may, in [these sorts of] proceedings \u2026 award any compensation \u2026 unless satisfied that\u2014(a) the plaintiff has made reasonable use of all the specified internal and external complaints mechanisms reasonably available \u2026 but has not obtained in relation to that \u2026 redress that the court or Tribunal considers effective; and (b) another remedy, or a combination of other remedies, cannot provide ... redress that the court or Tribunal considers effective.\u201D The possible problem with that legislation is in the words \u201Credress that the court or Tribunal considers effective\u201D. I think that needs further consideration, and it certainly needs advice from officials as to how that sort of assessment has actually worked in practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EIn section 13(2) there is a need for similar reconsideration and advice, because that refers to how \u201CIn this section, reasonable use of a complaints mechanism means the use that the court or Tribunal considers it reasonable for the plaintiff to have made in the circumstances.\u201D So \u201Creasonable\u201D means reasonable, and that is a brilliant thing to say in a piece of legislation. So what does it mean? We are going to have to get some advice on that and to see what effect that has had in practice. It is a subjective test, and we all know that that is often the cause of considerable trouble in other legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EIn section 14 there are other matters to be reconsidered too. That says that a court or tribunal must take into account certain matters that are specified in section 14(2). Those include in section 14(1)(b) \u201Cthe quantum of an award \u2026 to provide effective redress.\u201D What is \u201Ceffective redress\u201D? Effective compared with what? I would like to hear about that from the officials. We also see, for example, in section 14(2)(b): \u201Cwhether the defendant\u2019s breach of, or interference with, the right concerned was deliberate or in bad faith;\u201D. That is something to be taken into account. I do not understand, really, why that is relevant, given that it is the breach itself that is the issue, not whether it was deliberate or in bad faith, but I am willing to listen to explanations about that too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EIn section 14(2)(c) the words \u201Crelevant conduct of the plaintiff\u201D are used. Relevant to what? What does that mean? There is just not enough guidance, and I would like to hear advice about that as well. In section 14(2)(g) we see the provision: \u201Cthe extent (if any) to which effective redress in relation to that act or omission has been, or could be, provided otherwise than by compensation;\u201D. I would like to know whether that actually occurs in practice, and, if so, how well it has worked. Finally, in section 14(2)(h): \u201Cany other matters the court or Tribunal considers relevant.\u201D That is a pretty open-ended invitation, and I would like to hear more advice on that too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EHowever, I want to make it clear in closing that, firstly, New Zealand First does want to see an effective and practical way of facilitating victims\u2019 claims against prisoners. We in New Zealand First do believe in promoting victims\u2019 rights, and this is one valid way of doing it, provided prisoners\u2019 rights are also appropriately protected. But it must be workable and it must be fair. As I have already said, important prisoners\u2019 rights must not be unduly compromised. I think there is a lot in the 2005 piece of legislation that needs review, needs clarification, and needs improvement. So, as I have said, it is a surprise that this is simply being put up for re-enactment without that review and without that improvement. That is something that we will simply have to try to do through the select committee process. Nevertheless, I look forward to the select committee stage to discuss all of that, and, for that purpose, New Zealand First will support the bill going to the select committee stage, but it may well not consider it further, unless the Government is willing to consider improvements and amendments to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u00226f3731c428ac47faa9915fe6d16c4cd9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f3731c428ac47faa9915fe6d16c4cd9\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak to the first reading of the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill. This bill is to make permanent the restriction of awards of compensation and the victims\u2019 claims process in the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005. It was a Labour bill, so I actually find it quite surprising that Labour is opposing this tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe regime in the 2005 Act expired on 30 June this year, which necessitated an interim bill earlier this year to extend that date to June 2013, allowing time for this bill to be passed. And I believe that the Minister of Justice wants it reported back by April next year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe 2005 Act outlines the rare circumstances where courts can award financial compensation to prisoners for breaches of their human rights, and it is concerning that this has actually happened in New Zealand. The 2005 Act allows any money owed by prisoners, such as reparation or legal aid, to be deducted from any compensation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EIn addition, the Act provides a simplified process for victims to make civil claims against compensation payments before the prisoners are paid out. Importantly, this new bill softens the interim bill, which puts that any money left over from payments to offenders be directed to victims. After consideration, Cabinet felt that this was unfair\u2014that the payment of the balance of the prisoners\u2019 compensation to victims would be unfair\u2014and therefore that decision was reversed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThis bill does retain support for victims while maintaining fairness for prisoners, and I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00227b3d4de7f3d3418692ce344a0a41bc85\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b3d4de7f3d3418692ce344a0a41bc85\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E That member, Jackie Blue, obviously does not have a very good recollection of the matter coming before our select committee, the Justice and Electoral Committee, just a short while ago. The Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act when it was originally introduced was introduced as a short-term measure, and that was the reason for putting a sunset provision into it. I think it has had about three sunset provisions\u20142007, 2010, and 2012\u2014and now the 2013 deadline is starting to loom, which is why we are dealing with it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E What is kind of frustrating to this side of the House is that we agreed to extend the expiration of the Act earlier this year in order to provide a temporary measure in lieu of the alternative Government bill, which would have made these restrictions permanent. Of course, that bill has disappeared from the Order Paper. The member who has just resumed her seat did not even mention the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Redirecting Prisoner Compensation) Amendment Bill, known in the regulatory impact statement as the redirection bill, because it has come off the Order Paper. It has been ditched. We agreed to have the temporary measure last enacted\u2014and the member is on the select committee, so she must remember it\u2014we agreed to do that, on the basis that that particular piece of legislation was going to have its first reading and be referred to the select committee. Well, it never came. It never had its first reading and it was never referred to the select committee. So, as a result, we agreed on the basis that the Minister of Justice had offered to negotiate with the Opposition spokesperson on justice\u2014my colleague Charles Chauvel\u2014and other members in this House over the content of the measure. Of course, she has failed to do so in good faith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThat is actually why we are opposing this Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill. It is about process, and I think the process is really important. I think that if people actually want to get legislative changes through this House, when there are areas upon which we can work together to achieve agreement, that is what we should seek to achieve, and that is what we sought to achieve. The Minister did not consult with us about the new bill that she had introduced, and then she did not consult about removing it from the Order Paper, and she did not consult about this amendment, either. I think that to turn this, the temporary measure, into the permanent fix actually does not solve the problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWe have heard members opposite talk about victims of crime. If somebody is in prison and they are left a bequest and inherit a lot of money, it is not caught by this bill. If they win Lotto because somebody gives them a Lotto ticket for their birthday, it is not caught by this. The only thing caught by this is if their human rights are abused and they receive compensation from the Crown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fadc25b336ff47869ea49a32907775e7\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: So perverse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1f620f2216f4939ab908d0b57541e26\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: It is absolutely perverse, and I cannot believe that members of a National Government are happily standing up and saying that this legislation is good enough. It is not good enough. That is why we were prepared to work with the Government to find a real fix, which was about prisoners\u2019 deriving income during the time that they are incarcerated, or deriving some benefit while they are incarcerated\u2014not dependent on their having their human rights abused and having compensation paid to them by the Crown, but actually looking at the whole issue as to whether they should be able to be deprived of some element of what they gain while they are serving their sentence, so that the benefit of it can pass on to a victim, if the victim wants that compensation. I have spoken to victims of crime who do not want any money from anyone who has done to them what was done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI want to also remind the House that regarding victims of crime, we talk about what it is that they want, and we are talking about whether the legislation is victim-centric or not. We had a meeting recently with the Sensible Sentencing Trust, and one of its members highlighted to us that there was a real concern about the lack of engagement with the Ministry of Justice and the Minister over some of the issues that are truly of concern to the victims of crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWhat the trust had discovered was that on the Ministry of Justice website is this incredible document that is essentially a literature review of all of the issues relating to adult victims of crime. Right at the end\u2014and this is what the trust drew to our attention\u2014it says: \u201CGuiding principles for providing effective service and support to the victims of crime\u2014A key aim of this report was to provide information on how best to support victims of crime. In reviewing the extensive range of research relevant to crime victimisation, a number of guiding principles emerge as important in delivering effective support and services to victims. These principles are applicable to all agencies, government and non-government, that work with victims of crime.\u201D That is the advantage of actually looking at the international literature. Even our own literature supports this. This is what best practice actually informs Parliament about in terms of decision making, and this is actually what a victim-centric service provision looks like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EIt says: \u201CRespectful and confidential treatment: available research shows while outcomes are important to victims (eg, reparations, convictions), consistent with the concept of procedural justice, the manner in which victims are treated is more important.\u201D That is what all of the evidence shows. \u201CIndividualised response/flexible services: there is strong evidence that people are affected differently by crime. Services allocated purely by crime type or victim type are likely to miss other victims with significant needs. Assessment must ensure individual needs are identified, and services need to be sufficiently flexible to provide individualised response. A range of service options should be offered so that individual preferences can be catered for.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThen it talks about services being accessible: \u201CServices can only assist victims if they are known to victims, victims are comfortable using them, and are available at the time and location when needed. Participation in the justice system can be important to victims and so must be accessible to them.\u201D Therefore, it talks about services needing to be well advertised, and using publicity campaigns to ensure that victims are aware of their existence. \u201CCertain services need to be available 24-hours (eg, crisis response)\u201D. Well, we have just had to have an urgent intervention in Auckland because the crisis centre for sexual violence was about to close its doors at Christmas. That had to be addressed extremely urgently. \u201CServices and access to justice need also to be available in rural and provincial areas \u2026\u201D. How often do we forget that these services are not just city-based in terms of that support? \u201CServices and justice responses need to be culturally appropriate and accessible to those from different ethnic backgrounds \u2026 services and justice responses need to be sensitive to the needs of vulnerable populations and accessible to those with disabilities, younger victims, those living in socially and economically deprived areas.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThen it talks about provision of the right information at the right time in the right format. How many times could you say that about a whole range of different areas that we should be addressing? \u201CDelivered by experienced, knowledgable, well-trained, empathetic staff\u201D, \u201CConsistent high quality services and support\u201D, \u201CIntegrated service provision\u201D, \u201CEnd-to-end individualised support\u201D, and \u201CAccountable services\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E Those are the things that the victims of crime are actually saying to Parliament that they would like to have delivered for them. I do not think that anyone can stand up in this House and say that the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill that we have before us in any way begins to address those particular needs. Labour members will be looking at the bill very carefully when it comes to the select committee. The reason we are not supporting it is that it is a bill that fails to actually address the core needs of victims that have been expressed to us and have been identified by the Ministry of Justice as being based on international best practice. The literature says so, and, as I say, the Sensible Sentencing Trust is asking us to look much more compassionately at these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ESo I think it is a very disappointing piece of legislation. The Minister of Justice can do a lot better than this. I have to say, quite frankly, I am disappointed that effort has not been placed in this particular quarter where it should be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u00229f1795ced5f14161b726b4e272234426\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f1795ced5f14161b726b4e272234426\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on this Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill in its first reading. I would like to acknowledge and thank the Hon Lianne Dalziel. I do not have the history of the debate and the discussion over its previous course, but I do agree with the issues around support, having previously been part of support groups to help victims, especially victims of crime, especially our vulnerable, and especially our women and our children. The list she read out is definitely a list of the areas where concern and care are needed in support of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe Hon Phil Goff spoke about restorative justice, and I do have some experience in that. I would agree that this is an approach to justice that focuses on the needs of the victims and also the offenders, as well as the involved community, and I think we do not often talk about that when we talk about restorative justice. It is not just the victim and the offender; it is the whole of the community working collectively together. It ensures that the victims take an active role but also that the offenders are encouraged to take responsibility for their actions. That is absolutely important, and I think that is what is important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EWhat I am looking forward to is having the debate. As, again, I have not been part of this history previously, I would like to hear about these issues and I think there is some merit in some of the conversations we had as a select committee. I think that is important. I think the things we will be debating will be around, for instance, the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005, which did respond to some of the concern that offenders should not receive compensation. I was fortunate to be on the Justice and Electoral Committee when we heard submissions on the Victims of Crime Reform Bill, and, yes, there was the Sensible Sentencing Trust\u2014Garth McVicar and others\u2014and what we heard really clearly there was that there is a need for balance in the system that does take into account the needs of the victim. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ESo I rise in support of the discussion in the first reading and also at the select committee for this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002276d4ae663d374a39badcd6dbcb645357\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276d4ae663d374a39badcd6dbcb645357\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A split call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e99764a77ff4ec0ba08117b4c6ae4a6\u0022\u003EDr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214132ce0d6de4edfaf50b2835baf99fb\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call Dr Megan Woods.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022d760b38b33db4ec98d1473cb60055a5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d760b38b33db4ec98d1473cb60055a5e\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f94557c0ebb14ea2968ce1ce3fd8c25e\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am sorry to interrupt the member but our second speaker this evening is actually unwell and will not be here, so we are quite happy for Labour to take the whole call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022857bdf523baa4313babd76a57fae9c05\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, it is not a split call. The member may take a little more time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022633d38f44cfd4e56b48237e465ba5967\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am happy to take what was going to be a short call on this bill, the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill. My colleagues have traversed the reasons why Labour will not be supporting this bill, and the history of this bill, at some length. Indeed, many of my colleagues have been very involved in the history of this piece of legislation through the passage of this House and have a great deal of background to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe previous Labour speaker before me, the Hon Lianne Dalziel, pointed out very succinctly the reasons why it is that Labour is not supporting this piece of legislation. This is a piece of legislation that does not do what it set out to do. It is a disappointing piece of legislation and it does not achieve what it promised to do. It does not address those core needs of the victims that we as members of Parliament hear day after day from people and that we know exist. We are disappointed that this is a piece of legislation that does not address those. Put simply for us, this legislation is simply not good enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E We have heard a great deal about how the original Act was a piece of legislation that was never intended to have the longevity that members opposite are attempting to give it, that it had, indeed, sunset clauses in it, which are being rolled over and over, and that this is just not adequate. What is more, we agreed to the last rollover to that legislation on the proviso that the Government was going to come and consult with Opposition members and that we could actually genuinely work together to try to get a piece of legislation that would address these very real needs, and these very important needs, in our society and in our communities. Again, we are disappointed\u2014there is that word again\u2014that Government members did not come and consult with Opposition members\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3ae2965d2644da5879425d91349c35b\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re always disappointed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c72310a328e4a8b8bde3e45e563e38a\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, Maggie Barry, we are often disappointed by the Government members opposite. We are very disappointed that they fail to deliver on what they are going to do, and that it is a Government of broken promises. Yes, we are very, very disappointed in that, Maggie Barry, and we are disappointed that this bill is not sufficiently victim-centric. We have an opportunity here, and we are not taking it. We do have an opportunity to actually do something that addresses these rights, and we have the Government members opposite standing there, and they are talking a great deal about victims\u2019 rights. They are talking about the slogans that go around this. They have got a great deal of empty rhetoric around this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIf this was a Government that really cared about victims\u2019 rights, would it be a Government that was prepared to let the burglary clearance rate languish at 25 percent with no movement in that figure? Seventy-five percent of burglaries remain unsolved. If we actually think about the constituents we talk about, the everyday people we talk with, and their experience of crime in this country, often for me in my electorate office in Wigram it is people coming in and talking about the devastation that a burglary has had on their life. They are talking about the way in which they do not feel safe in their homes, and they are talking about the way that they do not feel safe in their communities any more. If the Government really cared about the rights of victims and was going to back up its rhetoric that we are hearing opposite and was going to not be a disappointment, then we might actually see some movement in that figure. The 25 percent is just not good enough. Three-quarters of the people getting away with this most devastating of crimes is not good enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIf this was a Government that really cared about the rights of victims and really fundamentally addressing these, let us have a look at some of the other things that it could do. There is a backlog of 900 jury trials in the Auckland and Manukau courts. The backlog is 900. That is in an area where you live and that you represent, Darien Fenton\u2014900 people. That is 900 victims, that is 900 offenders, that is 900 witnesses, and that is 900 communities waiting for over 2 years to get justice. This is not a way to deliver fair outcomes to anyone involved in crime, let alone the victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThis is again an example of a Government that is not committed to a victim-centric justice system. What it is doing is putting up legislation that does not adequately meet the mark on what it needs to do. The Government is putting up legislation that is not adequate for what it needs to achieve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ELabour believes that the best solution to stop compensation payments to inmates is to ensure that breaches do not occur in the first place. There are many very unfair aspects of this legislation that my colleagues have traversed at length\u2014for example, the fact that if you get your money while you are in jail and you have got a victim waiting, or if you get your money through Lotto, or you get an inheritance from a family member, or if anyone leaves you some money in a will, then that money is not there. We have not heard in any of this debate in the House a Government member rise and tell us what is fair, what is just, and how this bill is doing adequate justice for victims and looking after their rights\u2014the very thing that Government members are purporting that this bill has done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ELet us actually have a look at the reality of the situation. Since the enactment of the precursor to this legislation, there have actually been a low number of claims such as the one that triggered that original piece of legislation, if we actually look at the reality of the situation and what has been happening. We have not heard Government members actually address what the scale of the problem is here, what it is that they are seeking to address, and what it is that they are seeing to solve with this inadequate piece of legislation. The Labour Party minority view in the legislation that extended the sunset clause made it clear that we supported the extension of the sunset clause only to ensure that replacement legislation would be required and could be developed. We have not seen that through the passage of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe Justice and Electoral Committee when it heard the original piece of legislation for the extension of the Act received five submissions, and only one of those was in support. Submitters opposing the bill were primarily concerned about the human rights implications of the provisions in the original Act and bill. These are concerns that have not been adequately addressed. We do not have a Government that seems to be adequately concerned about prisoners\u2019 and victims\u2019 rights. We do not have a piece of legislation that is going to address a real need. We have a piece of legislation before us that does not do what it promised to do, and we have a piece of legislation that is a disappointment. For this reason Labour will not be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u002296a287c65f354d7d864a9d5b5cbdbe68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296a287c65f354d7d864a9d5b5cbdbe68\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E On this subject I would like to start by reading out a quote in relation to this issue. It goes along like this: \u201CMost people, including myself, have a deep sense that it is wrong that serious offenders can be awarded compensation for wrongful treatment without those offenders themselves being required to pay compensation to their victims for the serious wrongs inflicted upon them.\u201D That quote is from the Hon Phil Goff from 14 December 2004. I want to ask the House and ask the Opposition what has changed in the view of the Opposition. I absolutely agree with what Phil Goff had to say back in 2004 when he first introduced the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Bill, which ended up becoming the Act. The problem we have with the Opposition\u2019s argument is that if we were to go along with what it is suggesting, and simply vote this piece of legislation, the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill, down, then on 1 July next year we would actually see that compensation scheme for victims being done away with. That would be an unacceptable position for this House to leave victims in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThe original Act responded to the concern that offenders should not receive compensation for wrongful treatment without first repaying the debt they owed to the people whom they harmed\u2014the victims. This bill is about continuing that scheme because it is going to expire next year if nothing is done. Opposition members are arguing that they do not support this legislation, but they would see the very scheme that they themselves put in place in 2005 being done away with. That is unacceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThis Government has done a lot for victims. This Government campaigned in 2008 on supporting victims. The biggest change that has been made for victims has been the $50 offender levy. We have used that new levy to expand services to, and support of, victims of serious crimes and their families. More than 4,000 victims and their families have received extra support in the first year of that because we implemented a victims\u2019 offender levy. This piece of legislation continues something that the Opposition started and put in place for a very good reason. It is important that it stays. The petulant attitude that says \u201CWe don\u2019t like that the Government hasn\u2019t worked with us. Therefore, we should vote this piece of legislation down.\u201D is wrong and should not be an argument that is supported. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229460eac870d44bb3b31e090e02cfa638\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand First 7; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000552\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill be referred to the Justice and Electoral Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bbe0680a44aa45db87b76c39897867c1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 86\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; Mana 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 34\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EQuestion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e28dab5e9054437488b7215bfb69d192\u0022\u003EElectronic Identity Verification Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e28dab5e9054437488b7215bfb69d192\u0022\u003EIdentity Information Confirmation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e454b4750fff4c52979e69e5e9f353fb\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022034f6752976c4ded912d497811ece8c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022034f6752976c4ded912d497811ece8c1\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS (Minister for Courts)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Internal Affairs: I move, That the Electronic Identity Verification Bill and the Identity Information Confirmation Bill be now read a third time. These two bills represent a shift in how New Zealanders\u2019 identity information can be used for proving who they are. Both bills shift away from heavily paper-based models and allow identity services to be brought into the 21st century. The bills achieve this in different and complementary ways. The Electronic Identity Verification Bill governs the operation of the igovt Electronic Identity Verification Service. The bill will enable New Zealanders to verify their identity once the Department of Internal Affairs\u2014sorry, to the Department of Internal Affairs\u2014and then to be able to use the igovt services to prove their identity online.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220540847f5655471db93655dd215ec367\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Do you want me to read it for you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d4e1d20752f4ef58bd9a99e6cddb215\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: No, I think I will be OK. The bill itself is rather mechanical in nature, specifically setting out how individuals apply to use the service and what the legal effect of the service is. The Electronic Identity Verification Bill opens up the potential of the internet. It is hard to know who someone is online, even if they want you to know. The bill changes that. It allows individuals to prove who they are online, when they want to do so. This opens up the internet to allow Government and business to offer more online services, particularly services that involve risks, such as the handling of sensitive personal information. The service will become an essential piece of infrastructure for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe igovt log-on service has existed in a limited form for 3 years. This bill will enable it to be used much more widely and will encourage the uptake of online Government services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe second bill, the Identity Information Confirmation Bill, governs a service for agencies to confirm that individuals\u2019 identity information is correct. Identity fraud is a serious issue, and this is another tool to help us combat it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc6dbf4110244392960b4f9c348baf99\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: How many cases a day?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223edce2e34bd9423f93baee935626848b\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: Heaps. The department holds the authoritative source of identity information for many New Zealanders through its Citizenship Office, Passports, and Births, Deaths, and Marriages registry functions. Agencies must gain the consent of the individual before using the service. Again, the bill is largely mechanical in nature to support the service. The Identity Information Confirmation Bill supports agencies when dealing with customers, through both online and off-line channels. The bill allows Government agencies and businesses to be more confident that they are not dealing with false identity information. This combats the increasingly sophisticated fake documents being generated and passed off by fraudsters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EIt is important that employers are able to use the confirmation service during employment processes to identify fraudsters wrongly applying for jobs, especially in sensitive roles such as in the education sector. The service also enables employers to comply with the Immigration Act\u2019s requirements that they not hire people who are not entitled to work in New Zealand. It also means that individuals do not need to show as much identification to prove who they are. Again, the service will be an essential piece of infrastructure for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThese bills and the services they govern have a number of similar policy foundations. Both of the bills deal with the sharing of personal information that is central to verifying an individual\u2019s identity. Privacy considerations have been at the forefront of policy decisions on these bills. In particular, both bills require the consent of the individual concerned before any information is shared. Both bills also enable the Privacy Commissioner to ask for reports on the services being regulated, so that the Privacy Commissioner can proactively monitor these services, rather than waiting for complaints before being able to act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe bills also have other safeguards to ensure personal information is used responsibly by agencies. These safeguards are in line with the information privacy principles of the Privacy Act 1993. Both bills enable people to opt out of using the services, and require participating agencies to maintain alternative ways of dealing with people. The digital divide is an important policy consideration, and we have to accept that some people are not comfortable or able to use new technologies. A person should not be penalised for opting out of using either of these services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThese bills aim to reduce identity crime in our society. Identity crime has been an increasing problem, whether it is through the creation of a false identity or, worse still, stealing someone else\u2019s identity. There are numerous high-profile examples, such as the convicted sex offender who committed identity theft in order to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229738ac5dc8bd4992ac65eba4964b5c26\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: David Garrett.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a942e7eae704fdc8ef833845301b52e\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I agree with the member\u2014obtain employment in the education sector, or the fraudster who created 100 false identities in order to obtain millions of dollars in superannuation benefits. Sadly, these cases are the tip of the iceberg. These bills offer new tools for Government agencies and businesses to prevent identity crimes. In doing so, they also reduce the chances of innocent members of the public having their identity stolen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI anticipate that both bills will be important for helping New Zealand businesses to meet their obligations under the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act 2009. When that Act comes into force in July 2013, banks and other financial institutions will be required to undertake greater checks to verify the identity of their customers and thus prevent identity crimes. These bills will help those businesses to do this. Importantly, the bills do this in a way that reduces compliance costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI would like to thank the Government Administration Committee for its rigorous consideration of these bills, and the 12 submitters to the committee. I appreciate the multipartisan approach that has been taken towards the bills and the constructive chairmanship by the Hon Ruth Dyson. I would also like to thank my ministerial colleagues the Hon Nathan Guy and the Hon Amy Adams for the work that they undertook to progress these bills during their times as Minister of Internal Affairs. I commend these bills to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00229fbde3b52a064747892ebbe880bd2b4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fbde3b52a064747892ebbe880bd2b4c\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Party is supporting these bills, the Electronic Identity Verification Bill and the Identity Information Confirmation Bill, and I think we will be supporting them with a little more enthusiasm than the Minister for Courts, Chester Borrows, who has just spoken in favour of them. Some of us have thought about this issue before we came to the House. I have got a bit of advice for the Minister, who is a relatively new Minister, and that is it always pays to look beyond page 1 when you are handed someone else\u2019s speech. In that way, you can work out whether there are any words you do not know or if anything is not clear. What was absolutely clear was that the honourable Minister, in delivering that speech, had not looked past page 1 before he started delivering it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226990b7071cd54e00b4e0bf625b16588e\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, don\u2019t be unkind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022278d2ad7ad9b49188baf2104d5b2346c\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no, I am being generous to him. If the Minister had looked beyond page 1 and delivered the speech like that, it would be very serious. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e48988dbbd846518fecec6475d9f07b\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, faux gravitas has choked you, has it, Trevor?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259c84682ecaf40639a59b5b548544a0f\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Unlike the member opposite, I have not had as much to drink over dinner tonight as she has\u2014as she has. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213243eaf36124e57b1ce2b39bc3fd7c1\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe you should.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022911517451fbc43b3a6fa9265a25ce779\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if drinking turned me into a person like Maggie Barry, I would certainly not take it up. I would certainly not take it up, because she is the evidence of the problem. She is the evidence of the problem when that sort of thing occurs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThese bills really come at the same issue from different perspectives. The Electronic Identity Verification Bill is an opt-in scheme whereby people can get into the system, get in there once, and stay in there and give permission for different agencies to use the authentication system in order to know whom the agencies are dealing with. I think that over a period of time more and more people will want to get involved this way, although I must say it is a matter of trust as far as Government agencies are concerned, and we have had quite a few problems with trust of Government and Government agencies in this area. One just says ACC and Judith Collins. We say Work and Income and Paula Bennett. We say Novopay and Novopay and Novopay and Paula Bennett and Judith Collins. What we have is breach after breach after breach after breach of privacy on the part of Ministers and of Government departments. I say that those people are going to have to clean up their act and they are going to have to clean up their agencies, or there will not be a chance of people willingly going into the system, because they know that Ministers will spray their private details around into the public\u2014spray their details around into the public\u2014in a way that is just not acceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI agree with the comments that I presume were drafted by officials for Chris Tremain, the Minister in charge of the legislation, around the work of the Government Administration Committee. I want to acknowledge both Mr Bakshi and Mr Auchinvole for the work that they did do, but I think what people will generally agree on is that in the select committee on these bills, it did not really matter which party you were coming from. You know, we had different perspectives on some of the details and different angles on occasions\u2014and I do want to acknowledge the work that Gareth Hughes did; he did a good job in this particular area\u2014and we mainly came to agreement. I also want to acknowledge the Government\u2019s flexibility in making changes to make the legislation work more carefully when evidence was produced in the select committee. As far as the punishment regimes were concerned, I acknowledge its willingness to shift from something that was, for multi-fraud on the part of a company, a bit of a slap with a wet bus ticket, to something that might at least be a ruler across the hand, rather than a wet bus ticket. So there has been some change in this particular area. There have been some powers granted to the Privacy Commissioner, who will be able to proactively require reports about the operation of the service, although I must say that having the Privacy Commissioner being able to ask for a report, or even asking for a report and getting a report that is available, appears to be a different thing these days. I will say no more about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EGoing now to the Identity Information Confirmation Bill, what this does is allow both public and private sector agencies to check identity information. It is my expectation that it will be used pretty extensively not only by a number of Government agencies but also, eventually, by banks and similar organisations. I think there will be a standardisation of the identity verification services. It allows agencies to check whether the identity information presented by a customer is consistent with what is held by the Department of Internal Affairs through its registers: the citizenship register, the passports database, and the various registers of the Births, Deaths and Marriages registry office\u2014although I think probably it would be unlikely that many people would want their identity information confirmed through the deaths register. I think if they are doing that, it might be an indication of an issue for the person, and a possible fraud. Although if it was like\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc409aa481e442f4983305a26266fa12\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Unless they\u2019re David Garrett.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bdc53d61c7e424c8eacd8c6fce59b64\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: David Garrett. I was going to get on to David Garrett, the ACT member and, I understand, a very close friend of a number of people opposite, including the one with three names whom I have forgotten\u2014Jami-Lee Ross. I have got it. He is a very close friend of Jami-Lee Ross, Mr Garrett. I understand that Mr Garrett actually gave Mr Ross\u2019 mother advice on his name. You know, he got it off a headstone or three\u2014got it off a headstone or three\u2014and I think that is\u2014[Interruption] Well, the members opposite defended him for so long. The members opposite defended David Garrett for quite a long period of time, and I just want to say this. They seem to say that there is not much of an issue\u2014not much of an issue, they said. This was a guy who stole the identity of a dead baby. He stole the identity of a dead baby, and the National Party members defended him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI am pleased that since that time they have confessed their sins. They have confessed their sins and said \u201CWe have got to have a system that is better, and we will not allow that sort of thing to occur in the future.\u201D, and they have been involved in this legislation, weak as it was when it was introduced. But with the work of a number of people, it has got a lot stronger\u2014again, especially Mr Auchinvole. I want to acknowledge the fact that he put a bit of backbone into the Ministers. Mr Auchinvole, in particular, was very clear. He gave us examples of frauds with his own credit card. The member had been slightly loose with his details, and they were being used on a basis that was absolutely inappropriate. He shared that with us, and I think a number of us\u2014most of us, many of us\u2014have been involved in things that have looked dodgy. It is slightly harder to do now, although I am informed that every day in New Zealand there are about 2,000 cases of online, or related, identity fraud. Credit card fraud, people using the\u2014I suppose we are not allowed to talk too much. Oh, it is not before the court, is it? But there are questions about a member of Parliament and whether he used the cash card in the appropriate way or not. If that is proven, then that would be a very serious matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EBut there are privacy breaches all over the place. In 2011, probably because of the lax leadership of \u201CPaula Benefit\u201D\u2014Bennett, sorry; that is the Wainui\u014Dmata name. I have been in Wainui\u014Dmata too long this week. \u201CPaula Benefit\u201D is what she is known as over there. Paula Bennett\u2019s leadership led to a breach of privacy\u2014a massive breach of privacy. She put a beneficiary\u2019s details into the public. The Work and Income staff thought it was all right to do the same, and 10 of them were so bad last year that they had to get the sack. In 2011, 10 people from Work and Income followed Paula Bennett\u2019s leadership, and they got the sack when, actually, she should have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u0022e953735940454305900860deedf95ecd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e953735940454305900860deedf95ecd\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on the cognate bills, the Electronic Identity Verification Bill and the Identity Information Confirmation Bill, both of which are big steps forward in identity information management, making life easier for consumers and for businesses. It is always a pleasure to follow the Hon Trevor Mallard in a debate, and to try to work out how on earth something that was such a matter of agreement between the people at the Government Administration Committee has suddenly become a huge partisan issue, although I think he did say that partisanship was subordinated to common sense. These bills are an exercise in common sense and in consideration of what is sensible. The Electronic Identity Verification Bill will regulate and enhance the operation of the igovt identity verification service, including making it available to private sector agencies, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge the initial efforts of the chair of the Government Administration Committee, Ruth Dyson, and the subsequent efforts of the select committee in her absence. We worked very well together, and I think everybody brought something to this bill. Indeed, I reflect Mr Mallard\u2019s comment about Gareth Hughes certainly contributing with safeguards and concerns over verification processes. He was assiduous in follow-up work, and we were all able to contribute. We all enjoyed it, and when it came to penalties I think it was Eric Roy, the Deputy Speaker, who suggested that we should really lift the game, rather than leave it where it was, where people did not suffer too much as a consequence of stealing information. As the Hon Trevor Mallard said, each of us had something to bring to the table. In my particular case I well remember being part of a bank verification group that sold its files to a commercial company in America, which then contacted us about buying shares and that sort of thing. It showed complete disregard for the privacy of identification. This bill shows that this Government understands that it is time to expand the service to allow for a greater range of uses, so that people, the Government, and businesses can realise the benefit that internet technologies offer. The Department of Internal Affairs is partnering with New Zealand Post to commercialise its service and to make it more widely available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EWe were\u2014I think I speak for all the members of the select committee\u2014particularly impressed by the work of the officials on this bill, in that they would listen to our concerns, they would go away, and they would come back with a complete description of how our concerns could be met. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe Identity Information Confirmation Bill creates a new service that enables approved agencies to check whether identity information\u2014names, dates of birth, and that sort of thing\u2014presented to them by customers is consistent with the records held by the Department of Internal Affairs. Again, I was able to instance the fact that I had had my bank card stolen. The only thing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e62d9d9dbca846db90c92041f09116d4\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Who would want it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227293e39a9a26470aadc8bfc7dc6c26a3\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, exactly. That is exactly what I thought\u2014who on earth would want it? And when I was interviewed by the police I said to them: \u201CWhy would they want these cards? I have already cancelled them.\u201D Mind you, that was an experience in itself\u2014phoning the bank to say \u201CI wish to cancel my cards. They have been stolen.\u201D, only to have the bank say \u201CWhat were the numbers?\u201D. I did not know what the numbers were. I was standing in my gym gear. My trousers had been stolen and my wallet with them. Mind you, my tailor later, when I put in an insurance claim, asked \u201CWere you in the trousers at the time?\u201D. I was not; they were nicked out of the gym. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286c5aebc108d4cee89d889d583afea23\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Too much information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4d807147e794b24bd2c1d112c827034\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Too much information, indeed. But the interesting thing was that those people used the cards as their identification in South Auckland to open accounts at department stores, and they were accepted. The only thing that prevented me from being charged and prosecuted for the bills was the fact that they were a different age from my age. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThis new system that we are putting in will provide a safeguard against that. It will also help to ensure compliance with the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act 2009, which requires banks and other financial institutions to undertake more comprehensive \u201Cknow your customer\u201D checks. In an earlier age, of course, we all did know our own customers and that sort of thing, but we live in different times now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe Data Validation Service will be available only to organisations that meet strict security, privacy, and integrity criteria. We have heard on this side of the House endless criticism of breaches in security. For goodness\u2019 sake, it is the exception that proves the rule. Things will occasionally go wrong. It is not the end of the world when there are breaches, but what it does normally do is ensure that safeguards are put in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThese bills will enable New Zealanders to transact more easily online, and will give businesses and Government agencies confidence against identity fraud. They will give individuals confidence against identity fraud. The identity services will be able to be used by all New Zealanders for a wide range of transactions offered by Government and private sector agencies. The culmination of all this will be that New Zealanders will be able to prove their identity quickly and securely when dealing with Government agencies and businesses. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022859a127c099d4c11a45741e4de8f7a73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022859a127c099d4c11a45741e4de8f7a73\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I am very, very pleased to take a call on these particular bills, the Identity Information Confirmation Bill and the Electronic Identity Verification Bill. I have only one question for the member who just spoke, Chris Auchinvole, and that is if someone was going to steal another member\u2019s identity, why on earth would they choose his? Clearly\u2014clearly\u2014they had not done their homework, if they chose Chris Auchinvole\u2019s identity to steal. Clearly, they are proving the Darwin theory if they tried to steal Chris Auchinvole\u2019s identity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIt feels a little like The Day of the Jackal here today because, actually, this legislation should have been passed quite some time ago, and would have been passed quite some time ago if the Government had not put it on the back-burner. Why did the Government put it on the back-burner? Well, let us go back. Let us rewind the clock back and try to remember why the Government might have put this legislation on the back-burner. I believe that it was dealing with a few identity-related issues at the time this legislation was languishing on the Order Paper. In fact, a member of Parliament who was part of the Government stood up in the House and made a statement confessing that he had stolen the identity of a dead baby. After he did that, suddenly the Government did not want to debate this legislation. It put it right down at the bottom of the Order Paper\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba5945cf9fb74573bdca88a82aea53f7\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: He was not a Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee13833f75584e57ba74f80e989f968c\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: He was part of the Government. If all those backbenchers over there can claim that they are part of the Government, then David Garrett was part of the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022419d07b4da9c46a79aa342c27ac64a23\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: What about Gareth Hughes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022326aaad1555742568e38e3fe18cd885c\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Gareth Hughes is sitting right over there, and I do not think Gareth Hughes has done anything wrong. I think Maggie Barry should apologise to Gareth Hughes for that absolute slur on his character. I believe that Gareth Hughes is an upstanding citizen. I do not think he has ever stolen the identity of anybody, and I think Maggie Barry should stand up and apologise. In fact, Maggie Barry has got no right to comment about identity theft, because she has never done it. Therefore, under Maggie Barry\u2019s standing orders, she is not allowed to talk about it. If Maggie Barry has not stolen the identity of somebody, she should not be commenting on it. Apparently, according to Maggie Barry, you can talk about something only if you have done it yourself, and if you have not then you should not be talking about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIdentity theft is an issue that all New Zealanders will have an interest in, because an average of 2,000 New Zealanders a day are affected by some form of identity scam. That is quite a significant number\u20142,000 New Zealanders a day are affected by some form of identity scam. I said in one of the earlier readings of this legislation that I think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef2a81d56feb44288cd27e3c86602498\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t worry, no one remembers it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022914b08d233e44320a37b01502492cc71\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Nobody remembers it, says Maggie Barry. Well, I cannot remember a single thing Maggie Barry has said in the House this year, other than insulting all of the other members of the House, which she is quite good at. I have to say that Maggie Barry is quite good at insulting other members. I do not think she has made any other contribution to Parliament than sitting up the back after long, emotional dinners and flinging insults to the other members in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EAs I said in one of the earlier speeches on this legislation, I think that issues around identity will be some of the most important issues that we deal with in this Parliament over the next few years, because, fundamentally, things have changed so much around the storage of personal information, the volume of personal information, and the propensity of people to release their own personal information quite freely, much, much more than they did in the past. If we look at social media, for example, people release huge volumes of personal information about themselves that once upon a time simply would not have been anywhere near the public domain. Many of the forms of identity verification that are currently used are actually widely available, so if someone wants to set up a profile on a website, on many of the websites they will be asked questions like what their date of birth is. Date of birth is used as an identity verifier in a whole host of online environments, and, actually, it is quite easy to get hold of. I think that leaves people quite open to the prospect of identity theft. Their mother\u2019s maiden name is another one that is a piece of information that is not difficult to get hold of from many people and is often used as a form of identity verification. So one of the things that is quite important, and one of the reasons why the Labour Party is supporting this bill, is making sure that there are secure and reliable forms of identity verification available to New Zealand citizens so that they can have their identity verified. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI guess there is a question for the Government as to whether this legislation will extend only to New Zealand citizens or whether New Zealand residents might also be covered by this. If somebody wanted to verify the identity of a New Zealand resident\u2014for example, verifying that they were, in fact, a New Zealand resident\u2014would this legislation apply? This is very relevant to the Government, because its own spy bureau, for example, the Government Communications Security Bureau, may wish to verify whether somebody is a resident of this country, because it seems that the bureau does not actually know whether someone is a citizen or a resident and, therefore, whether it is allowed to spy on them or not. Mr Dotcom, who was not a citizen but was a resident, was, in fact, protected, but the Government Communications Security Bureau did not seem to know that. The Government clearly does not have any sort of identity verification service within its spy bureau. It seems to think that it can do whatever it likes without any sort of identity verification. Perhaps this bill might go some way to solving that problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EHowever, all those things aside, one of the things that New Zealanders are very concerned about is what the Government is doing with their private and personal information. It is all very well for us to talk about what other people are doing with New Zealanders\u2019 private and personal information, but, in fact, under this Government\u2019s tenure, New Zealanders have no certainty that the Government itself is not using their private and personal information incorrectly. I ask the Minister who is sitting over there, the Minister for ACC\u2014she is in the Chamber tonight\u2014what the number 6,748 means to her. To Judith Collins, what does the number 6,748\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022961315428ddf40d3b2ed0fe5e5b7499d\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s much less than my majority, honey. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c895ecddee63490f91a4df2d0bd871a5\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: It is much less than her majority. What does the number 6,748 mean to the Minister for ACC? Anything? Nothing. We are getting nothing from the Minister for ACC. That is the number of people whose private and personal information was released by ACC, and yet the Minister does not know that, because she does not actually care about ACC releasing people\u2019s private and personal information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a542f0581c094b77b4e29fe9fd3a00be\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Was I the Minister at the time? No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3a5a3072d6a4693961d3aeb9b193b24\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, what happened to the member who was the Minister for ACC at the time? He is coming back into Cabinet after Christmas, apparently. I am sure Judith Collins will be there, welcoming him with open arms when he is restored to Cabinet after Christmas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EA total of 6,748 people had their private and personal information released by ACC. Then, of course, we have got the Work and Income fiasco. We do not know exactly how many people\u2019s private and personal information was released by ACC, although we know quite a lot about two of the people whose private and personal information was released by Work and Income, because it was released by the Minister for Social Development. Paula Bennett released their private and personal information herself. She did not think that was problem. Apparently, if someone criticises the Government, this Government thinks it is OK to go and look them up and splash their private and personal information all over the media. That is OK, according to this National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWe move on to the Inland Revenue Department. The Inland Revenue Department is one of the Government agencies that has some of the most private information about people\u2014huge volumes of personal information about how much people earn, what they pay in child support, a whole variety of those sorts of quite sensitive pieces of information. It actually probably has the best name and address database of any Government agency. The Inland Revenue Department, I would say without doubt, has the best name and address database of any Government agency. It is the most up to date. The Inland Revenue Department has this amazing way of finding people, and yet New Zealanders can have no confidence at the moment that it is actually treating that private and personal information with the care that it deserves, because we have seen the release of information by the Inland Revenue Department that really should have been held private. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThere were 7,000-odd documents accessed from Work and Income\u2019s kiosks. It did not even actually need to release the information. It just put its computers in the foyer area so that anyone could go and look it up. I think New Zealanders should be quite concerned\u2014and rightly concerned\u2014that the Government is not taking due care with their private information. And let us not get on to Novopay, because I am towards the end of a 10-minute\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cfdf7802de04412bb17dd49a5275b3e\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: It doesn\u2019t work anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9f213d01f3f40f1a2da1d2b4d99dbc1\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: It does not work anyway. I am towards the end of a 10-minute speech, and there is another 20-odd minutes of a speech about Novopay. Again, there is no certainty for people that their private information is being protected by Novopay. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cfe290688644a859fc0cacb7fbbe08b\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CNo pay\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278d636c13af84248a051093f27a5cbaf\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: As David Cunliffe points out, it actually would be more accurately described as \u201CNo pay\u201D rather than Novopay, because there is certainly no guarantee, even with all the private and personal information it holds, that people will get paid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis is good legislation, but it does not deal with many of the fundamental issues around identity theft and around the release of private and personal information, which this Government is not dealing with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f19108d7717743c28301e3e297437ffb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f19108d7717743c28301e3e297437ffb\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. I rise to support the Electronic Identity Verification Bill, but not the Identity Information Confirmation Bill, which the Green Party will be opposing. We have requested that the questions be put separately, so that our votes can be recorded subsequently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EBoth these two important bills deal with electronic information at its heart and how we manage it. It is a big, important policy debate. I think it is only going to get more important as the years roll on. I want to point out and congratulate the parties. We have a collaborative process on the Government Administration Committee, which I was involved in with the Electronic Identity Verification Bill. I have heard the support of Chris Auchinvole and Trevor Mallard, and I would like to reciprocate and say that it was a very collaborative process\u2014a very well-mannered select committee. This is select committees at their best, putting the politics aside and working out what is best. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EBut can I just touch on the deplorable comments of the member from National, Maggie Barry. I did not hear the actual comments that Chris Hipkins alluded to. If I had, I would have taken a point of order and urged her to withdraw and apologise. I understand Maggie Barry said that members like Gareth Hughes were stealing people\u2019s identities. This is an outrage from the member that does no service to that member or that party, or the good work that all the parties have done on this legislation. I think it belittles Parliament\u2019s poison ivy, Maggie Barry. If we are going to talk about identity, let us talk about common herbicide. Maybe we should give that member the identity of the \u201CRoundup member\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EBack to the issues at hand, I just want to touch on the issues, which are that we hear about this stuff only when it goes wrong. We hear it from the likes of Work and Income, Novopay, and ACC, leading the Privacy Commissioner to call this year \u201Cthe year of the privacy breach\u201D. It is critical we get this stuff right, and it is critical, as I am sure the member Clare Curran would agree, that MPs get their heads around this stuff and understand it, because it is so critical and will be increasingly important as the years go on. I would like to acknowledge the work of Nikki Kaye, in particular, from the National Party, and Clare Curran from the Labour Party. Together we have worked on a cross-party IT group for the last two Parliaments, and I think we have done some good work. It is good that parties can work across the floor on that. Just to continue the good vibes, I would like to thank the officials at the select committee, all the submitters, and the Privacy Commissioner in particular, and InternetNZ for its very well-reasoned submissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThis bill and the Electronic Identity Verification Service\u2014or igovt, as it is more popularly known\u2014give individuals using the internet the option of using a secure channel to verify identities and to access services from both Government and approved non-government agencies. It is desirable. It is beneficial. Many New Zealanders want to engage, and will find it more convenient to engage, with the Government through this channel. I note that the regulatory impact statement says that it has an economic benefit of $300 million, which is obviously very desirable. I would like to point out, though, that it is important that we do not entirely replace face-to-face interaction with Government departments. I am sure the housing Minister, Phil Heatley, could tell us about the problems when you get rid of face-to-face agents and you go to only a call centre or an online-based system. So it is obviously not the answer, and it is obviously not the way all Kiwis want to engage. There is a real digital divide in New Zealand. We know from the latest statistics that around 22 percent of New Zealanders still do not have broadband access. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220412d841f98b4f4f96751752fad4a633\u0022\u003EHon Phil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m a Minister in learning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfab42955edb4da6bbf3a070a8b98530\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: It is good to see the National Government still learning, as Phil Heatley says. So we have seen where it goes bad. You can just see with the kiosks at Work and Income. Sometimes this relentless drive for efficiency can have real costs for New Zealanders, and not necessarily a good service. Sometimes it can just turn into a farce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI want to quickly touch on how the Electronic Identity Verification Bill was improved at the Government Administration Committee. I think there were three big, fundamental changes. The first was changes to clauses 56, which increased the fines. Like we saw with the Rena, we had some pretty low traditional historical fines that were not really in keeping with the modern world. We have increased these to $1 million for corporate agents, which I think is more realistic and more up with the times. Secondly, we have changed the requirements so that information can now be accessed only via a search warrant to access someone\u2019s usage history. Up until then, the bill had previously been drafted so that any official in the Department of Internal Affairs, if they were working with the concurrence or, I guess, the proxy of the chief executive, could access all that information, which is potentially all New Zealanders, as I believe more and more New Zealanders will choose to engage through this unique verification portal, the igovt portal. So it is good that we have got another check and balance, which is the search warrant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThen we have got the changes to clause 65A, which deals with the deletion of data. Obviously we will collect a huge amount of data for the Government under this system in terms of identity and all the information and photographs of an individual, so having a deletion of data provision, I think, is very important. That was a clear message from the submitters to the select committee. What we have done is left it up to the Minister to decide through regulations, but with an important clause attached that the Minister must consult with the Privacy Commissioner. I think, given the year that we have had and given the increasing engagement with the Government online, we will see an increasing role for the Privacy Commissioner, and hopefully we will see increasing funding for that very important office. So, ultimately, this is a good bill with significant economic benefits. They are good benefits for New Zealand citizens. I think it is important, however, to note, while we are talking about the verification of identity, that anonymity online is also important. We should not lose that in a free and open internet. Obviously we need to do more to attack the digital divide, or else this Parliament will just see more and more New Zealanders left behind, not able to access the information or the assistance that we will see delivered through this service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EOn the second bill, the Identity Information Confirmation Bill, the Green Party is disappointed that we cannot support this bill. We tried to improve it so that we could support it. Unfortunately, Jan Logie\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 148 was not supported. The key issue for us in terms of this bill facing the House is the need to address identity theft. We acknowledge that that is incredibly important. We think we do need greater legislative amendments to increase that. But what we were particularly concerned about was the potential that the system could be abused by employers, particularly as part of the requirement to disclose information to verify identity. The fear was that an employer could require an employee to disclose quite a large amount of information. The employee might be reluctant to, given, maybe, a history of discrimination. We heard numerous accounts from Jan Logie where this has happened or scenarios where it could happen. Normally, people in the current world do not have to disclose information where they feel it could put them in a discriminatory situation, and what we could see is this law overriding that. That was our great fear. We tried to amend that with that Supplementary Order Paper, which, unfortunately, did not pass. That is why we will be voting against that bill tonight. When the question is put, we will be voting for the Electronic Identity Verification Bill and against the Identity Information Confirmation Bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u0022af3e8d80b3c542b8b9f802afcc58ec46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af3e8d80b3c542b8b9f802afcc58ec46\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my privilege to speak on the Electronic Identity Verification Bill and the Identity Information Confirmation Bill. These two bills are sponsored by the Hon Chris Tremain. Can I also acknowledge the chair of the Government Administration Committee, the Hon Ruth Dyson, and the other members of the select committee for their contribution. Can I also acknowledge the work of the officials in the select committee process. It has been a great pleasure of mine to be part of that select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EIn this modern world, the changing technology requires a lot of new legislation, and this bill is part of that. The Government is rolling out ultra-fast broadband and people require the tools to use those facilities. The main aim of the bill is to simplify the interaction between individuals and Government agencies. However, I am sure all of us will agree that when information is exchanged by electronic means, it raises the issue of privacy. This legislation, introduced by our National Government, ensures that issues of privacy are attended to with the utmost priority. Only if the person provides consent to the relevant Government department does this allow for the exchange of the information. For any organisation that commits an offence under this bill, its penalty amount has now been raised significantly. The idea is to deter anyone from the misuse of these services. It is another step by this Government that reduces red tape and paperwork. I hope this will be a tool for people to enhance their ability to work with identification at different agencies. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u00226b391b9033c64f7c87074bd4aced9de0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b391b9033c64f7c87074bd4aced9de0\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E The Electronic Identity Verification Bill is intended to regulate the operation of the Electronic Identity Verification Service to give individuals using the internet the option of using a secure channel to verify their identities, and to access services from approved Government and non-government agencies. The provisions of the bill expand the igovt services to all members of the public, and will allow more agencies to use the service to identify their clients. I think the current service is a great success, and, therefore, the expansion of it is certainly a good thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is pleased to see the anti-hacking provisions in the bill, and we are pleased to see the penalties for the misuse of information as well. It is very important, as the bill does, to distinguish between corporations and individuals. Organisations that hack information would be doing so for commercial gain and they cannot be imprisoned, so we are pleased to see that there are very high financial penalties for their infringements of the bill\u2014of the Act, as it will be. We would have liked to see other penalties considered as well, such as the deregistration of a company in New Zealand for the most serious of cases. However, it is very good, at least, to see very high penalties for corporations that infringe. In respect of the regulation of information, New Zealand First agrees with the proposed new clause 65A concerning regulations to prescribe the length of time that electronic identity credentials, photographs, records of usage, history, status information, and technical codes are retained after their cancellation, revocation, or expiry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EWe also approve, in particular, of the requirement for the regulations for these purposes to be subject first to consultation with the Privacy Commissioner. I think that is a very important safeguard. New Zealand First also approves of new clause 65A allowing a different duration to be set in regulations for electronic identity credentials issued to children under 14 years of age. This is simply, of course, because, as we know, children\u2019s appearances change dramatically as they age, and they generally hold fewer identity documents, which can limit the effectiveness of biometric checks. New Zealand First further supports new subclauses 26(5B) and (5C) in relation to the situation where an individual\u2019s application to amend their information has been refused by the applicable chief executive, by requiring that chief executive to take reasonable steps to indicate that the information recorded in a credential is disputed. That is the very least that we think should be done in those sorts of circumstances, because the bureaucracy does not always get things right and individuals need to at least have the opportunity to say that. So New Zealand First supports the bill, and especially the role identified for the Privacy Commissioner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First also supports the Identity Information Confirmation Bill to attack especially online fraud. The bill will achieve an important objective, to facilitate the use of an electronic service that allows agencies to confirm identity information provided to them by individuals with information held by the Department of Internal Affairs under the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Act 1995, the Citizenship Act 1977, and the Passports Act 1992. In relation to the definition of \u201Cidentity information\u201D, that includes information about a person\u2019s full name, gender, date of birth, place of birth, other recorded information\u2014for example, in a passport, or a photograph in a passport\u2014and the status of any other recorded information. In clause 8 there is a list of conditions for using the confirmation service, which, most particularly, of course, require the individual to consent, whether in writing or electronically. It requires the agency or intermediary applying to give an assurance that the consent has been obtained, and, of course, that they have entered into the required confirmation agreement. There is also the ability for an individual to consent on a one-off basis or on an ongoing basis, and the ability to withdraw that consent as well. We think those also are very important safeguards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI also approve of clause 9(4), which states: \u201CThe confirmation service must not, at any stage, supply to the agency or intermediary any recorded information about the individual who is the subject of the search.\u201D It is, of course, just information that we are concerned with here. Clause 10 gives a long list of requirements in respect of the responsible officials, requiring a need to be demonstrated by an intermediary before they can enter into an agreement. Also, they must have policies and practices in respect of security of information and relating to the privacy of individuals. Clauses 11, 11A, and 11B contain, I think, very comprehensive provisions concerning what must be in a confirmation agreement, and, in addition, how those agreements are to be used. For all of those reasons, New Zealand First approves of the Identity Information Confirmation Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EWe think there are satisfactory safeguards in the bills with regard to individual privacy. We think especially that the provisions relating to the role of the Privacy Commissioner, who will also ensure that the safeguards for the privacy of individuals are respected, are very important as well. So, for all those reasons, New Zealand First will vote in favour of both bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022507c0b961c57421c9456510384bea7a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022507c0b961c57421c9456510384bea7a6\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased that the House has returned to a level of calmness after the antics that we had earlier on in this debate. I think my Thursday morning sparring partner, Mr Hipkins, and his mentor, Trevor Mallard, were getting a little overexcited over there, invoking the ghost of David Garrett, but I am glad the House is back to normality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThe Electronic Identity Verification Bill and the Identity Information Confirmation Bill are very good pieces of legislation. They are all about implementing part of the Government\u2019s Better Public Services programme\u2014the result No. 10 that we have got there, which is about making it easier for New Zealanders to interact online with the New Zealand Government. The legislation enables an automated electronic service that authorised agencies can use to confirm the accuracy of individuals\u2019 identity information. It can be used for a wide range of purposes, including meeting new anti - money-laundering requirements. The legislation also helps to combat identity fraud, by preventing the use of fake identities. It extends the use of the web-based Data Validation Service to public and private sector agencies on a strictly need-to-know basis. And it allows agencies to check whether the identity information presented by a customer is consistent with that held by the Department of Internal Affairs through the citizenship register, the passports database, and various registers such as the Births, Deaths and Marriages register.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThis is good legislation, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u002208f304897392477eaf05f4017e758257\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208f304897392477eaf05f4017e758257\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to say that both the Electronic Identity Verification Bill and the Identity Information Confirmation Bill are actually very important bills, because they go right to the heart of the relationship between citizens and the State, which is essentially about the trust that is held between the information that citizens provide to the State and how that information is used and exercised. That is why Labour is supporting both of these bills. They are both important bills. I would like to commend the work that has been done on the bills in the Government Administration Committee, and the effort that has gone into these bills from members all around the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI would also like to make mention of what was just said by the previous member, Jami-Lee Ross, around supposed antics, with reference to the ghost of David Garrett. This is actually one of the reasons why these bills are so important. These bills are so important in terms of ensuring that there are provisions in place for the security of information and how information is used. I would like to read to you some words said around 10 days ago by our Privacy Commissioner, Marie Shroff, in terms of her annual report, about the importance of privacy and the importance of people\u2019s information. She said that the public is increasingly suspicious of handing over personal information, as complaints reach a record high in our country. She said that in the year to 30 June her office had received 1,142 complaints, which topped a steady rise in the last 5 years. What those figures represent is that there is increasing concern amongst the public about how personal information is being used, and that the link between public trust and responsible stewardship has not been made in the minds of some people. She said that in 2012 the most complained about organisations were all Government agencies, with ACC taking the top spot with 173 complaints.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI did want to run through just a few of these, because they are important. As I said, they do go to the very heart of that important relationship of trust and how the Government chooses to deal with it on a systemic basis, right across the Government\u2014not just at an individual agency, departmental, or ministerial level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E Marie Shroff, in her annual report, said that that data breach in March from ACC was a watershed moment for the public sector that exposed weaknesses at a systemic and governance level and highlighted the integral nature of data management in the public sector and at all levels of the organisation. She said that the lack of commercial drivers meant that public trust must be clearly demonstrated as necessary to effective government. I think that is very important, because when we are looking at these bills and what they do\u2014and they do go some way to addressing some of these issues, but not nearly far enough\u2014there is and needs to be recognition from right around the House of the importance of these issues and how they are dealt with. There needs to be\u2014and it would be very good to see\u2014clear support from across the House for law changes that require notification of affected individuals. I also would like to note that when the Privacy Commissioner released her annual report, the Government was yet to respond to most recommendations of the commissioner\u2019s August 2011 review of privacy report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI would like to make mention of the top complaints that were received, because I think the most important point that was being made here was that the privacy breaches that were appearing were all coming from Government agencies, including ACC, as we know, and the New Zealand Police department, the Department of Corrections, the Ministry of Social Development, the Department of Labour, Immigration New Zealand, the Inland Revenue Department, the Housing New Zealand Corporation, and the Civil Aviation Authority. They were the top agencies that were reporting breaches. The fact that those breaches were being reported is a good thing and it is a healthy thing, but the remedy\u2014how they are to be dealt with\u2014is the next important issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI would like to, I guess, make mention of\u2014I think a number of my colleagues across the House have made mention of\u2014the systemic issues that have occurred, particularly in the last year. We have had reports just in recent months about these, and we are up to, I think, between 30,000 and 40,000 individuals whose breaches of privacy have been notified as a result of some of these issues that have come to light. They have come to light not, unfortunately, because of self-notification; they have come to light because they have been exposed. The Inland Revenue Department had 32 breaches, which represented 6,379 individuals. ACC, as we know, is a well-known case where 6,000 individuals\u2019 data has been made available to the public. In the case of the Ministry of Social Development, 7,300 files were made available. I do not know what the latest count is\u2014maybe one of my colleagues can help me here\u2014with the Novopay breaches and the information that has been provided, but the last count sometime in November was 8,000 individuals affected. That is more than 30,000 if you do a count-up around that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI also want to make mention of\u2014[Interruption] Well, it is the tip of the iceberg. It does equal a small town, but it is the tip of the iceberg. I also want to make mention of the really good work that has been done by my colleague Darien Fenton in the immigration area, around the breaches\u2014and I am sure she will talk about them herself\u2014that have occurred and the effect they are having on those individuals and what that actually means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI think the major point to be made here is that when you do have\u2014as I think is agreed around the House\u2014issues of privacy breaches, of breaches of information and the impact on individuals, you have to deal with it at a governance level. That is extremely important. That is why there is a bill, which has been pulled from the ballot, called the Electronic Data Safety Bill, which actually follows on from what is being discussed here tonight\u2014and there is reasonable support around the House for both these bills. It is about how to deal with these issues by, essentially, establishing a commission of inquiry into the privacy breaches that have occurred in the last few years, and, as I have just outlined, the effect of them here in the last 12 months and across all of those Government agencies. The bill looks at what the capacity across the Government is to respond to those breaches, it tries to look into how they have occurred, and then, most important, it looks at some remedies for dealing with them so that they do not happen again in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThere is no doubt that all of these breaches have been acknowledged, but, unfortunately, there has been a tendency, which we have heard tonight, from the Government side to try to say that things occasionally go wrong, that there is no big deal here, and that it is human error. Well, I think these issues are a bit more than just human error on an individual agency basis. There are systemic issues here. This is the digital environment. We do have to address these issues on a systemic level across the Government, and I do hope that when that bill comes up for debate there is serious discussion around it and there is support across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u00227dc9c56141e3463f8a0f42f1fea2d2b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227dc9c56141e3463f8a0f42f1fea2d2b6\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I will take a short call on these cognate bills, the Electronic Identity Verification Bill and the Identity Information Confirmation Bill. The igovt service allows individuals to check their identity when transacting with Government departments. It has already been in use since 2009 to a limited capacity with regard to birth certificates, death certificates, and marriage certificates, and it is very much time to expand. The Identity Information Confirmation Bill creates a new service that essentially enables approved agencies to check identities against the Department of Internal Affairs database, if you like. This is a very good tool to help protect against identity fraud, which is a massive problem in many respects and on many levels. As for privacy concerns, this is not a compulsory system; it is an opt-in and opt-out system and requires the consent of those partaking. I think it is important to note that the Privacy Commissioner will be monitoring both these initiatives in real time. So, essentially, there are very good checks and balances in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThis is very much part of this Government\u2019s Better Public Services agenda. This is very much a part of what we are trying to do in terms of efficiency, effectiveness, and being pragmatic for the New Zealand public. I just want to take the time to commend the Hon Chester Borrows for the work that he, in particular, is doing in this area. He is a great servant of this place and of New Zealanders. I commend these bills to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229738af2169e64585b8632091ce77c42d\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that this is a split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8f9d64aa8894c5083de4740ac22cab1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8f9d64aa8894c5083de4740ac22cab1\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am taking a call on the Electronic Identity Verification Bill and the Identity Information Confirmation Bill, which are cognate bills. It is fair to say that the Electronic Identity Verification Bill has had a much smoother ride than the other bill, the Identity Information Confirmation Bill. I put a lot of that down to my colleague Ruth Dyson and her excellent chairing of the Government Administration Committee. If you look back at the Identity Information Confirmation Bill, it dates right back to 2010, and the very unfortunate timing of its introduction, I think, as my colleagues have referred to. I think it was very embarrassing for the Government, actually, to have to debate the first reading of that bill not long after David Garrett was exposed for actually stealing someone\u2019s identity\u2014in fact, a dead baby\u2019s identity. So it is a little bit ironic to be debating this bill tonight. I cannot help but refer back to that time, and also to the fact that we have had so many breaches by this Government\u2014so many breaches by this Government. Again, my colleagues have listed them, and the numbers are really mounting now, are they not, of those breaches across Government departments: ACC, which was a massive breach; Work and Income; the Inland Revenue Department; and Immigration New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWe are just starting to get to the tip of the iceberg on Immigration New Zealand, and it is worth pointing out that the privacy breaches that are being identified are starting to come out. Immigration New Zealand holds enormous amounts of information from people, and, rightly, many people are concerned not only that their privacy is being breached but that they have not been informed of that breach. So I am certainly following that up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI think it is very important that the Government is up front about this. I remember way back in the Government Administration Committee, when we first did the legislation relating to Births, Deaths and Marriages, which was in the good old days when Labour was still in Government. There was much suspicion about opening up the registers to New Zealand through the digital system. There was a huge amount of suspicion, and it was very understandable. Way back then identity frauds were starting to occur, but now look at today\u2014an average of 2,000 New Zealanders are affected by online scams, identity theft, credit card fraud, and sophisticated viruses every day. According to Veda Advantage, for the 2008-09 year there were more than 7,000 incidents of fraud and false pretences using credit and bank cards and credit by fraud, and the New Zealand Police identified 900 cases of identity fraud in New Zealand in 2009. I think that those are just a fraction of the real figure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIt is very understandable that New Zealanders feel so anxious about their private information, because it can be misused, as other colleagues have referred to. It is also something very personal\u2014our unique identity. It belongs to us, and our identities are precious to us. In the past we have held them in the form of passports, licences, and family documents such as family photos and diaries. Many of those, of course, get lost in things like the dreadful Christchurch earthquake. You know, some of those things like family photos will never be recovered. But the public records do hold on our behalf many of the most important things about our identity, and that means that the New Zealand State has a special responsibility to treat that information about our identity with particular care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E Every New Zealand citizen has something on the record. Technological developments mean that access to personal information is changing. Personal information has become a valuable commodity to be bought, sold, combined, sorted, profiled, and mined, meaning that the opportunities for misuse are expanding every day. So we have to recognise the real threat that there is around identity fraud. The State has to take particular care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI am pleased that the Privacy Commissioner is satisfied with the legal safeguards and controls in this legislation. We hope that will hold true, and we hope that this legislation will see a real improvement in the Government\u2019s igovt strategy and in the Government\u2019s protection of private information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00226595e954403c44a39f4c1bfc24c0dab3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226595e954403c44a39f4c1bfc24c0dab3\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Electronic Identity Verification Bill and the Identity Information Confirmation Bill cognate. As has already been discussed by my colleague Gareth Hughes, the Greens will be voting in support of the Electronic Identity Verification Bill and opposing the Identity Information Confirmation Bill. We would have loved to support both bills, actually, because we do recognise the importance and the value that they offer. However, as I will talk more about later, the privacy concerns in terms of protecting people\u2019s human rights in the employment process overrode our ability to support the second bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe Electronic Identity Verification Bill, as has already been stated many times, in effect creates an online passport\u2014a unique online identifier to verify somebody\u2019s identity. It really opens up our system so that we can extend the current igovt process to further organisations or Government departments. I know that that is going to be a good thing for many people, particularly because I hear of so many clients of Work and Income whose access to their entitlements is delayed because they turn up for an appointment to access some service or access an entitlement, they find out that they do not have the right ID with them, they are sent away, and they have to wait until another appointment is available. The hope is that with this bill we will be able to streamline processes, which will make it easier for the staff in Work and Income and make it easier for the clients coming in to be able to access the services. That is certainly a very good thing. We note also the projected economic benefits of this bill, as stated by my colleague Gareth. There are potentially $300 million of savings from it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EBut we would also like to be that reminder that we have to be always mindful of those who do not have access to online services. I have heard some very angry voices recently, particularly from older New Zealanders, who feel as if they are getting locked out. They have been into Government departments and they have been sent away to go and look up something online, which is completely intimidating for them and not something they feel able to do, even if they do have physical access in terms of broadband. So that is something we always need to be mindful of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI shall speak a bit more about why we are opposing, sadly, the Identity Information Confirmation Bill. Although we really do support the intent of the bill and are very aware of identity fraud and the harm that it is causing, particularly in terms of financial fraud\u2014and this bill certainly holds out the hope of being able to take action on that and decrease it, and that is incredibly important\u2014our concern arises with it being used in the employment process. We have not heard much evidence of how common identity fraud is in terms of people going into employment. The Supplementary Order Paper 148 that we put forward excluded it from being used in the employment process, because of our concern for marginalised groups. There is certainly the ability to opt out, and that fulfils the technicalities in the Privacy Act as we know it for people to be able to have the choice to opt out. The reality is that for marginalised people who are worried about their ability to get a job to say \u201CNo, I am not going to provide you with that information.\u201D\u2014people are not going to feel able to make that choice. By not making that choice, they will, in effect, be required to give information that presents their date of birth and their nation\u2014place of birth. Those are two points that we know are common bases for discrimination in this country, which is something we need to ensure people\u2019s ability to protect themselves against. That is why we will be voting against this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00221e85856a24f04f64ba0adbe795261b80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e85856a24f04f64ba0adbe795261b80\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to support both the Electronic Identity Verification Bill and the Identity Information Confirmation Bill. Both of these pieces of legislation are an important step forward in terms of enabling both consumers and businesses to transact more easily with the Government. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EElectronic Identity Verification Bill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022529dea18f41a47f3afed92d33b383521\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Identity Information Confirmation Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 105\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 15\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 14; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa0e9f7d547d441a909293cf6901136b\u0022\u003EHuman Rights Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2f2c2d6d132457b87e6b1c6a17bf5b8\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000667\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 4 December.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022c85e9d15435c466d989197ee44137683\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c85e9d15435c466d989197ee44137683\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Members have always liked to think that their contributions in this House will be lucid and coherent, but I have to say, Mr Assistant Speaker, that the first time that I was about to take the call on this bill, the Human Rights Amendment Bill, you very kindly and charitably adjourned the House just as I was about to take it. On the second occasion I took the call, at exactly the same time on an evening, you had me a little discombobulated, I must say, by the fact that you bounced in your chair at one stage and I thought you were standing to adjourn the House. So I am not sure that my contribution on this third attempt will necessarily go down in the annals as one of my finest contributions in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBut I would like to clarify that when I took the call the other day I failed to make it clear that one of the most\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ba7e730be2e4cb6afbbf4bb92fd3c5b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: I think this is his best speech ever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224409cce403714f69b8d0cf2cb9ac5f13\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252b6c6bde8964d968b17c8b81e1e9229\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Why don\u2019t you talk about something in the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d4882ef48034992943a488a09aa7dea\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: I do appreciate Mr Little\u2019s praise. All praise is gratefully received, particularly from that member, who is not known for dispensing it very often.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe Human Rights Amendment Bill amends the Human Rights Act 1993, and I failed to make clear the other night, when I took the call at exactly this time of night, that its major purpose is to enable the establishment of a full-time commissioner with responsibility for leadership in disability rights within the Human Rights Commission. That is a serious issue. It arises from the fact that, as I mentioned last time, the previous Labour Government in its dying days ratified the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. That was in late September 2008. Article 33 of the convention requires States\u2014there are all sorts of long words here\u2014to effectively ensure that we will recognise and uphold the important rights and interests of people with disabilities. So this bill is an important measure and I have no hesitation in supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe creation of this role requires an amendment of the Act, as it currently enables the commissioners to have formalised leadership in only two areas, and those are the areas of race relations and equal employment. In fact, tonight when I attended the function to farewell the Retirement Commissioner I had a quick chat with Joris de Bres, the outgoing Race Relations Commissioner, and he commented on the fact that he had enjoyed my outstanding contribution in this debate last week, and I made it clear to him that I would give him even greater pleasure tonight, if he tuned in at the same time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022263798b193ae423d9aeeda7be316955a\u0022\u003EHon Chester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Tune in next week!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f851779d918468e830e6fec635eb025\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: So I hope he has, and at this rate he will be tuning in not only next week, my good friend Chester Borrows, but probably next year. I have been known occasionally to take time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00226cd3d2c30efe4e40b1ed732189ecb5cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cd3d2c30efe4e40b1ed732189ecb5cd\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt the honourable member. [Interruption] Order! Sorry to interrupt the honourable member. The time has come for to me to leave the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9.00 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20121211da3cc57eddc1455cbe96669bc9c8a33a000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002255bdf7fa17174790812f6cff497c7145\u0022\u003ETuesday, 11 December 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223598c6dd70614b478c43cb54b89f6210\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 12 December 2012)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022094679d931484b639825a963512b9dbf\u0022\u003EAppointments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226faa61744d8a487c9090ce6ceec8223a\u0022\u003EOmbudsman\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002246d0900a156142cf91ea182e447ec42c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246d0900a156142cf91ea182e447ec42c\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That, pursuant to sections 3 and 5 of the Ombudsmen Act 1975, this House recommend to the Governor-General that Ron Paterson be appointed as an Ombudsman for a five-year term, commencing on 4 June 2013. Back in September my colleague Anne Tolley moved a motion congratulating the Office of the Ombudsmen on its 50-year anniversary in New Zealand, and I would like to add my congratulations to those expressed by the House in September to mark this important milestone for this equally important office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EToday I rise to move a motion that recommends the appointment of Ron Paterson to replace David McGee as an Ombudsman. Mr McGee has decided after 5 years of further service to this country not to seek reappointment, and I would like to place on record our thanks for his service in this important role. I think it is worth noting that this will be the second time that Mr McGee has been singled out for particular praise inside this House for his service to the country, having previously been the very longstanding Clerk of the House, and in that role having international recognition for his understanding of the parliamentary process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EProfessor Paterson is well qualified to become an Ombudsman. He holds a first-class Bachelor of Civil Laws from the University of Oxford and an LLB (Hons) from the University of Auckland. In 2011 he was awarded an ONZM for services to health. He is currently Professor of Law at Auckland University, where he teaches legal ethics, legal method, and health law. He has previously served as Health and Disability Commissioner, where he served the community that deals with health and disability issues extremely well. Since 2010 he has chaired the New Zealand Banking Ombudsman Scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe position was advertised widely throughout New Zealand, and the Offices of Parliament Committee, as a select committee, has acknowledged the high calibre of applicants. Mr Paterson, though, was unanimously supported by the committee for the position. I want to thank the committee for the work that it did on behalf of Parliament in choosing such an important officer position, and I wish Professor Paterson all the best for the undertaking of Ombudsman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u00222daf1479686a42dfb66ac6d942746474\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222daf1479686a42dfb66ac6d942746474\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As the Leader of the House observed, we recently commemorated, on the motion of his deputy, the 50th anniversary of the Office of the Ombudsmen, I think, Mr Brownlee, not Office of the Auditor-General, but an equally important office of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022263c46e57b7b415789a9b983421953a4\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry\u2014I\u2019ll correct the Hansard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9f192d82b5c4a658ea40877ae192677\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and no doubt the Hansard will be corrected in due course. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIt is important that we recognise that the Office of the Ombudsmen is an important one, and I think everybody in the House in joining in this motion to advise the Governor-General as to this appointment would agree that Mr Paterson follows in the fine tradition of the many distinguished office holders who have served in the office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe Leader of the House mentioned David McGee QC. Many of us in the House have had personal experience of his assistance in his former role as Clerk of this House, prior to his assumption of the office of Ombudsman. He has in turn performed in a distinguished fashion in that office. It will be a shame to see him leave, but it is reassuring to see that he is to be replaced with somebody of the calibre of Ron Paterson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003ERon Paterson was a long-serving academic at Auckland University. He currently holds the position of Professor of Health Law and Policy there. He was the New Zealand Health and Disability Commissioner for 10 years, from 2000, and I think it is fair to say that he restored the credibility of that office after his predecessor rather failed to live up to the early promise that the office held out to consumers of health and disability services. It is therefore particularly pleasing that somebody who has that track record will be moving into a broadly similar position requiring similar skills and attributes as Mr Paterson has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E Ron Paterson taught me commercial law at the University of Auckland in 1987, but I do not hold him responsible for any of my subsequent errors in that field. His subsequent move to specialise in health law, typified by the position that he held in the Office of the Health and Disability Commissioner and also as Deputy Director-General of Safety and Regulation in the Ministry of Health prior to that, and his many publications in this field indicate that he brings to the Office of the Ombudsmen not only the skills and the intelligence that are required but also a good deal of knowledge of the way in which the public sector works. That, of course, will be vital to the good performance of his role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EA final word about the importance of the Office of the Ombudsmen. We are all aware that the office has recently had to make it clear that it needs to have adequate resourcing and funds to do its job. My colleague Shane Jones earlier this year, via a member\u2019s bill, suggested a model analogous to that applying to the Crown Law Office where, essentially, the department or entity that the Office of the Ombudsmen is examining ought to bear the costs of that examination, in order to try to find some sort of sustainable funding model for the office going forward. The House rejected that idea, but I think we do have to always bear in mind the need to ensure that this, one of Parliament\u2019s most important watchdogs, is always appropriately resourced, and where it is not, we need to take action to ensure that it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI think the other important thing that we must bear in mind when we are considering any matter touching upon this Office of Parliament is whether or not its powers are adequate. We are in an age where information, privacy, and security are very much at the forefront of everybody\u2019s minds. It is timely, I think, to consider, particularly in light of the recent work of the Law Commission, whether the office does have adequate powers to ensure compliance with the principles of the Official Information Act and the freedom of information statutes. Certainly for the Labour Opposition, that will be a policy priority in terms of the pledges we make in the election in 2014 whenever it occurs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EWith those concluding words, we certainly join with the Leader of the House and, I anticipate, other members in wishing Mr Paterson and Greg all the best for the next 5 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u00220c80f07b556c4d57ba05268f028b8c86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c80f07b556c4d57ba05268f028b8c86\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. I rise to support the motion that Parliament advise the Governor-General of the appointment of Professor Ron Paterson to the Office of the Ombudsmen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWhen New Zealand\u2019s first Ombudsman, Sir Guy Powles, was sworn in, in front of the Speaker\u2014your office\u2014in 1962 he said these pretty important words: \u201CThe Ombudsman is Parliament\u2019s person\u2014put there for the protection of the individual,\u201D. The Ombudsman holds a very respected, very important role in our country\u2019s democracy, and we have had a succession of very esteemed New Zealanders in this very important role. In September we celebrated the 50th anniversary of this office in New Zealand, the fourth only in the world. It has been a good idea, and has spread now, I understand, to 150 countries with Ombudsman-like institutions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EBefore we talk about the appointment of Professor Ron Paterson, I would like to acknowledge the work of the current Chief Ombudsman, Dame Beverley Wakem, Dr David McGee\u2014who, obviously, after his term in this office is moving on\u2014and also the staff, who play a crucial role doing the important work of the Ombudsmen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe have heard of the funding issue. We know that there is an increased workload, with increased financial pressures on the office. I think we should consider this in the next year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ELikewise, with the changing of the guard in the Office of the Ombudsmen, I think it is appropriate to reflect on the role of the office. Obviously, the title of Ombudsman comes from Scandinavian origins, and one wonders how many New Zealanders even know what the office is or does. The office is a people\u2019s champion, as Sir Guy Powles said, put there for the protection of the individual. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI think with new technologies, increasing privacy concerns, and increasing Government engagement online it is a good time to reflect on how we can modernise this office. I think Professor Ron Paterson brings an impressive academic CV and an impressive history, and will, I am sure, relish the opportunities and the challenges of adapting this office for the modern age, along with Dame Beverley Wakem. He was a professor of law at the University of Auckland and a Health and Disability Commissioner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EFinally, it was a privilege to sit on the Officers of Parliament Committee. I would like to acknowledge all those members, and recommend to this House that the Governor-General appoint Professor Ron Paterson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u00226bc5c167367b4d00856c1985985a2884\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bc5c167367b4d00856c1985985a2884\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First supports the recommendation to the Governor-General that Professor Ron Paterson be appointed as an Ombudsman for a 5-year term commencing on 4 June 2013. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe Ombudsmen provide a vital service for our parliamentary democracy. Their checks and their scrutiny ensure that the Government and its agencies do not subvert or mislead the general public. This year we have had a number of examples that demonstrated the importance of ensuring open, transparent, and accountable government. We have been reminded that the greatest threat to our democracy lies in secrecy and the abuse of power that occurs when the public is denied its right to know. It appears, however, to New Zealand First that the Ombudsmen are regrettably under-resourced, and we would like to see that addressed as soon as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EWe believe in both accountability and transparency. Therefore, we support this recommendation for appointment and, of course, we wish Mr Paterson well in the office of Ombudsman over the next 5 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022e310395acd6540fabe046cc778f0542c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e310395acd6540fabe046cc778f0542c\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you for at last heeding my request for a call. The reason I was seeking a call in this debate was because I was part of the panel of people who interviewed Dr Paterson. I was also part of the panel that interviewed his predecessor, and I think that one of the outstanding features of this appointment is that Dr Paterson comes to it with a very clear vision of the role he seeks to perform. He is aware of some of the challenges that the Office of the Ombudsmen faces, particularly in terms of the timeliness of responses to those seeking the Ombudsman\u2019s intervention, and he had indicated to the panel a clear strategy for seeking to address those problems, which I think is a good, positive step forward. He does have an impressive background. His work as a Health and Disability Commissioner, I think, was not only seminal in terms of the development of that role but also influential, and it continues to influence the way in which the current incumbent of that office operates. I am confident that he will be an outstanding appointment, and I know that he will approach the job with relish, vigour, enthusiasm, and a real sense of justice for the individual who is seeking the intervention of that office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI want, also, to make a comment about David McGee, because the appointment of Ron Paterson as an Ombudsman brings to a conclusion, at some point during the transition, a long, distinguished career of service to this Parliament by David McGee. He became our Deputy Clerk, I think, back in 1974. He was our Clerk for many, many years from around 1986 or 1987, and has now spent the last 5 years as an Ombudsman. That is an unparalleled record of public service. One of the things that has always distinguished David McGee, in my view, both when he was a parliamentary officer and now as a wider Officer of Parliament, has been a sense of fairness, a sense of justice, huge integrity, and a massive sense of discretion. They are qualities, I think, that we should recognise and remember, and we should thank him and wish him well for his future. So congratulations to Ron Paterson on his appointment, and thanks to David McGee for jobs well done over the years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022 data-id=\u002203bf120cc5374968a4cb1f52a62783db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203bf120cc5374968a4cb1f52a62783db\u0022\u003EBRENDAN HORAN (Independent):\u003C/span\u003E I support the appointment of Ron Paterson as an Ombudsman for a 5-year term commencing in June. His role will be to handle complaints against Government agencies, undertake investigations and inspections, and encourage good administration by giving feedback and training through agencies. He will also initiate his own investigations where there is a need\u2014independent and impartial, with a focus on fairness for all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003EI would also like to thank David McGee not only for his service as Ombudsman but also for his exemplary service as Clerk of the House for Parliament. My thanks go to him. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002262ed373266894b40ab561df268e0b9fd\u0022\u003EOffices of Parliament\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b89a281eb0ec476b99f138a9b15b94be\u0022\u003EAppointment of Auditors\u2014Controller and Auditor-General\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc1ed7a378be4669b1c019f54ede4a91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc1ed7a378be4669b1c019f54ede4a91\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That, pursuant to section 38(1) of the Public Audit Act 2001, this House appoint CST Nexia as the independent auditor to audit the financial statements of the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General for the financial years ending on 30 June 2013, 30 June 2014, and 30 June 2015 commencing with effect on 21 December 2012. This appointment, as the motion clearly states, is for an auditor to look at the financial probity of the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General. But it does raise the very interesting question, in my head at least, as to who it is, apart from the cursory time that we get at a select committee, who actually takes a look at the work of the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThere is a very, very considerable capacity for that office to look at almost anything in New Zealand that deals with issues of public finance, whether that be at a local government or a national government level. I think there is a question, though, about where the investigative powers of the Auditor-General should be appropriately used, and where they interconnect with what are the perfectly legitimate rights of elected Governments or elected councils to engage in activities that will deliver on promises that they have made to the wider voter community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI think that we are rapidly seeing a number of reports coming out of the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General that will mean that Parliament has to look at how that intersection is more transparent, so that we do not end up with reports that are somewhat self-generated, that are often naive in their content, and that are occasionally nothing more than self-congratulating for ever having been undertaken in the first place, and, ultimately, with conclusions that simply justify the reason for starting an investigation in the first place. That ends up being a waste of time, it ends up being a brake on activities that are legitimate for elected bodies to undertake, and I think it also starts to weaken the formal and accepted role of ensuring that the financial probity of activity, and therefore the appropriate expenditure of funding provided by ratepayers and taxpayers, is handled in a proper way. I do hope that CST Nexia is able to engage with the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General in a positive way to give us confidence about the probity of that office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u00223f805e1ba7464f558863ede30f528b9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f805e1ba7464f558863ede30f528b9b\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The issue here is that the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General supervises the auditing of the entire public sector, in its widest sense, and it does so with the assistance of a number of private sector firms that have audit expertise. In the nature of things, those firms tend to be the larger and better-resourced ones. They tend to be, in large part, the international accounting firms with audit practices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EWhen the Officers of Parliament Committee comes to consider who, in fact, ought to audit the auditors, obviously the committee has to consider firms that have the expertise but also lack the conflicts. It cannot very well look at the larger firms that perform work customarily for the Audit Office itself, and that is why it must look at other firms to ensure that it finds one that has the reputation and the ability to have a look at the very work of the auditors themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe committee has settled upon the well-respected firm of CST Nexia. It is a small firm. It has, I think, five partners, maybe six, and the work that it will perform will be very valuable in terms of ensuring the continuing confidence of this House in the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General and its functions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI do not think the comments of the Leader of the House about the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General can go unanswered as we join in the motion, because I would not want it thought that, although we support the motion, we also agree with his comments about the scope and role of the Audit Office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E There is a real danger, I think, when the Government of the day becomes annoyed and gets tetchy with individual aspects of work of the Officers of Parliament, who exist not to serve the Government of the day in any way but to ensure that Parliament can, in the widest sense, do its job of holding the executive to account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThere is no doubt in New Zealand that the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General for many years has performed that role in an exemplary fashion. There is no justification whatsoever to call for the curtailing of its \u201Cown motion\u201D powers of investigation. To say that those powers should not exist and that it should be able to investigate only matters that are referred to it would be an absolute travesty, and I am sure that that is not what the Leader of the House was suggesting in his contribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI want to put on record my own gratitude for the way in which the Auditor-General performs her work. I want to put on record the Labour Opposition\u2019s appreciation of the way in which her predecessors have performed their role. And I want to say that we have utter confidence in the office to perform the important role that it currently does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1f6d14b79c34f359d2d85d9ac71d601\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1f6d14b79c34f359d2d85d9ac71d601\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. Those of that opinion will say Aye\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3b23da17ae84b96affc04aa5f85a9f3\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022157ddc9ba0b5407ea0a751f4db862087\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have started putting the vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c6785bebf6c498984b9d666390d8df3\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s all right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe9042e62c5c406097d2e7bddba702df\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: To the contrary, No. The Ayes have it. I did wait. I looked around. The member needs to be a little more alert.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227e8177f8049e463a9a0559513ba4cb29\u0022\u003EConsumer Law Reform Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b6e267e9a00d47ef8d19606bbc8d23d7\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00229c1af9e3323b48ae9280af5f2cc9d51e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c1af9e3323b48ae9280af5f2cc9d51e\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Minister of Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Consumer Law Reform Bill be now read a second time. I would like to thank the Commerce Committee for its consideration of this complex and significant reform. The committee has considered changes to 10 Acts and reflected on more than 90 submissions covering a wide range of views. Its changes reflect a fair and robust process, and I am very pleased that the committee was unanimous in its support of this significant update of consumer law in New Zealand. Ideally, law reform such as this should receive cross-party support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe Government is committed to building a more productive and competitive economy. Strong consumer laws are the cornerstone of a buoyant market. When consumers transact with confidence and honest business practices are supported, we all reap the rewards. Our laws are basically sound, but they are over 25 years old and need updating to deal with modern transactions such as internet trading, as well as other technological advances. The main aims of this bill are to offer better protection to both consumers and businesses; to bring consumer laws in line with the business practices of our times; to make complying with the laws much more straightforward; and, not least, to make enforcing the laws more efficient and more effective. On this Government\u2019s agenda is progressing a single economic market with Australia; changes in the bill make our law consistent with the Australian consumer law, where it is the right thing to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThree main consumer laws are being updated: the Consumer Guarantees Act, the Fair Trading Act, and the Weights and Measures Act. The Door to Door Sales Act, the Layby Sales Act, and the Unsolicited Goods and Services Act will be repealed and incorporated into the Fair Trading Act. A new Auctioneers Act, with a modern approach to registration, is being put in place. I believe that this bill will be welcomed by consumers, businesses, and regulators alike. My thanks go to the Hon Heather Roy, the Hon John Boscawen, the Hon Simon Power, and the Hon Chris Tremain, the former Ministers of Consumer Affairs, who have previously guided this work. I believe I have also added to the final flavour of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI would like to comment on some of the most significant changes in the Commerce Committee\u2019s report. The Consumer Law Reform Bill provides for a principle-based approach. Binding the legislation is a purpose clause that will precede the Fair Trading Act, the Consumer Guarantees Act, and the Weights and Measures Act. This clause has been amended to better reflect the Act\u2019s driving principles: consumer protection and a trading environment that encourages healthy competition amongst traders. The revised purpose is crystal clear. It is to ensure that the interests of consumers are protected, businesses compete effectively, and consumers and businesses participate confidently in the market place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EIt is through delivering positive outcomes to both consumers and businesses that we will see markets flourish and the economy thrive. The bill will significantly amend the Consumer Guarantees Act so that it covers all transactions between traders and consumers. This includes goods sold at auction or by competitive tender\u2014online or off-line\u2014that are currently excluded from coverage by the Act. All goods sold by traders to consumers will now be covered by the basic guarantees that the goods have clear title, comply with description, and are of acceptable quality. This makes modern transactions between consumers and traders mode-of-sale neutral. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI acknowledge that some traders, particularly traders of motor vehicles, have raised concerns about the guarantee of acceptable quality. The bill will now amend the acceptable quality guarantee to make it clear that the context of a sale must be considered when the definition of \u201Cacceptable quality\u201D is judged. If, for example, a consumer buys a used car from a trader for, say, $1,000 with 300,000 kilometres on the clock, it probably will not be reasonable to expect the trader to repair it if it breaks down several weeks later. A complementary change has been made to the Fair Trading Act, so that traders will be required to identify themselves as such when selling goods on internet sales sites. This is to prevent traders avoiding obligations by posing as consumers. The Commerce Committee has recommended that a new delivery guarantee be added to the Consumer Guarantees Act as a more precise way of increasing protection to consumers. Traders will now be held responsible for goods up to the point of delivery. When goods are damaged and do not turn up, consumers can expect traders to address issues. Traders will have to contact carriers for compensation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe Fair Trading Act is also an important part of our consumer law framework. A major new provision in the bill is to ban unsubstantiated representations. These are representations made without the manufacturer or trader having any reasonable basis for making them. This type of claim disadvantages responsible businesses that do their research and evidence their representations. People may pay a premium for goods that \u201Cprevent asthma\u201D or are \u201Cenvironmentally friendly\u201D, and it is only fair that we can trust that these claims are made on reasonable grounds. At the select committee, many submitters raised concerns about the application of the new provision to creative advertising. Regulation at the cost of creativity is not the intention. As a result, a new subsection has been added. The rules will not apply to claims that a reasonable person would not expect to see backed up by research and evidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe Fair Trading Act will now include the rules for consumer transactions\u2014lay-by sales, uninvited direct sales, extended warranties, and auctions conduct. We all either have experienced or have heard of cases of the extra buying pressure exerted by people who come to the doorstep, or of the experience of being sold an extended warranty when it is not quite clear why a person may need it. These areas of the law are vital to get right. Several enhancements have been proposed by the select committee. The main areas of change are in uninvited direct selling and extended warranties. With regard to uninvited direct selling, a concern was that the new provisions were too broad. The select committee has made changes to ensure trade events like Fieldays are not captured by the provisions, while still ensuring protection from unexpected selling in the home. The disclosure requirements in extended warranties have been changed. Traders must now list what extra provisions the extended warranty gives over and above the Consumer Guarantees Act so that any extra benefits of an extended warranty are completely transparent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe Commerce Committee was asked to specifically examine whether to add to the bill unfair contract terms and unconscionable conduct provisions along the lines of such provisions in the Australian consumer law. Weighing up the views from both businesses and consumer representatives, the committee has recommended adding provisions dealing with unfair terms in standard form contracts into the Fair Trading Act. In respect of unconscionable conduct, the committee has advised it is desirable in principle to address this issue, but believes it is prudent to wait until Australia has developed a body of authoritative case law on the matter before considering following suit. Only the Commerce Commission will be allowed to take action to have a term in a contract declared unfair. The bill also includes a list of examples, as are also listed in the Australian consumer law, which will give the courts additional guidance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EFinally, the committee has taken steps to strengthen enforcement powers and penalties. These include giving the Commerce Commission compulsory interview powers when investigating the most serious breaches of the fair trading law. Penalties for more significant breaches of the Fair Trading Act, like giving false or misleading representation, have been raised to $200,000 for individuals and $600,000 for corporate bodies, and these bring us closer to comparable Australian consumer laws. Penalties in the Weights and Measures Act have been brought into line with those in the Fair Trading Act. Fines for offences in consumer transactions, like lay-by sales, remove the need to take matters to court. Product safety officials have been given more authority to enforce consumer information and product safety standards, including the right to inspect business premises. Strong and relevant consumer laws are essential for both consumers and businesses. I am confident this reform will help promote confident, well-informed consumers. In turn, we can drive competition, innovation, and sustained growth. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u002292d6efd8e8f3475380804f08f414a8a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292d6efd8e8f3475380804f08f414a8a5\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E As the Minister of Consumer Affairs has said, Labour supports this bill, the Consumer Law Reform Bill, and has supported it since its introduction on 20 April 2011. I do want to comment just briefly on the length of time it has taken to get this law to this point in the House, just concluding its second reading on the last sitting day of this year, 2012. It was referred to the Commerce Committee on 9 February this year, which does show that it sat on the Order Paper prior to the general election and was not dealt with until then. The closing date for submissions was 29 March 2012, and, as the Minister has said, they have received 90 submissions, hearing 60 of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, I am not on the Commerce Committee so I am not able to traverse all of the detail of the legislation in terms of the response of the select committee, but I do have one of the departmental reports, which I do want to refer to in relation to the last matter that the Minister concluded on, which is the question of unconscionability. I have been on the record as the spokesperson in support of unconscionability going into our law. I understand why the Government has adopted this particular point of view, but I think that it is probably a little bit unfair just simply to mention that some submitters commented on it. I want to put on the record who supported the introduction of unconscionability provisions and who was opposed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ELet us start with the list of those who were opposed to the unconscionability provisions, and I am reading from the departmental report: \u201CVarious submitters opposed including the concept of unconscionability in the FTA,\u201D\u2014not the free-trade agreement but the Fair Trading Act\u2014\u201Cincluding Fonterra, Business New Zealand, Telecom, New Zealand Retailers Association, and the New Zealand Chamber of Commerce.\u201D So those were the ones who were opposed to writing unconscionability into our Fair Trading Act, as the Australians have done. \u201CSubmitters in favour of introducing unconscionability provisions include the Salvation Army, Consumer New Zealand, the Citizens Advice Bureau, the Whitireia Community Law Centre, the Commerce Commission and the Motor Trade Association.\u201D What is the difference between those who support the introduction of the unconscionability provisions and those who oppose them? I would suspect that the ones who are in support of the unconscionability provisions being written into the Act are actually those who are dealing with people day in, day out who are the subject of unconscionable behaviour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI want to talk about unconscionable behaviour, because unconscionable behaviour is occurring daily in Christchurch. Every single day my colleagues and I are approached by people who are dealing with insurance companies that are trying to evade the obligations that they signed up to when they were perfectly happy to take the premia off our constituents\u2014off the people of Christchurch\u2014year in, year out. What is happening now? We have elderly people being told by their insurance companies that they have no option other than to accept an unconscionable offer, because they do not think that they are going to be around long enough to see their property rebuilt. So if the Government really wanted to address one of the major problems that is being confronted in Christchurch at the moment, it would be looking seriously at this unconscionability provision and it would be looking at who supports it and who does not. On a daily basis, as I say, there are all sorts of concerns being raised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ELet me just read into the record the purpose clause from the new fair trading legislation, as it was introduced, and then how the Commerce Committee has addressed it. It was: \u201CThe purpose of this Act is to contribute to a trading environment in which\u2014(a) trading is fair; and (b) there is effective competition; and (c) consumers and businesses participate confidently.\u201D This was changed in the select committee to read: \u201CThe purpose of this Act is to contribute to a trading environment in which\u2014(a) the interests of consumers are protected; and (b) businesses compete effectively; and (c) consumers and businesses participate confidently.\u201D I think that the select committee has actually got that right. I think it shifted the balance when it reasserted the purpose clause in the way that it has, because I think there is an assumption\u2014there certainly is in the case of Christchurch\u2014that people feel that the market place is actually what they have been abandoned to, on their own. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThere are instances where the Government actually does have to put its hands on and there are instances where the market does not actually supply the answer, particularly when there is an inequality of knowledge so that there is a discrepancy between what the company knows and what the consumer knows, and also when people do not think that they have got any real choices in the matter. That is where this question of the interests of consumers being protected comes in, because it is not equal in the market place in all instances. If somebody walks into a shop and they see an item that they want to buy, if the price is right, then they will buy it. Their interests are protected in the market in that regard. But their interests may not be protected if the owner of the particular product or the service that they are buying knows more than that person about what they are buying and the owner knows that there is not fair value, or that they are buying something that is not safe or up to a particular standard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThat is an issue that is dealt with a little bit in this legislation, but there is actually a little bit more work that needs to be done. What we have not managed to get to in this country\u2014and I notice that the standards legislation has fallen off the Order Paper\u2014and what we need to get to in this country is an ability to have the public-good standards written on behalf of the public good, with public-good funding that is not dependent on the private sector or an individual Government department referring a matter to Standards New Zealand in order for a standard to be written. We actually do have to do better than that, because there are instances where people could not possibly have the same amount of information as the owner of the product or the supplier of the service\u2014could not possibly be in the same position as them\u2014and we do need a law that protects them better than even this law will do. We agree with the original concept\u2014and I think the Minister left it out of his list\u2014of the Hon Heather Roy, because in fact she was the one who was the enthusiastic individual who promoted the One Law\u2014One Door mantra, and we have not got there yet. That is something that we do need to think about\u2014whether we can, in fact, get to that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EBut I want to place on record that the Prime Minister of New Zealand told Christchurch that he would be there for them, that he would walk alongside them. There are instances\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cedbb28a6f14a27ab5a56c6d7a0657e\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Nobody would be worse off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277a0ad1cc1bf42a98311b1843f76e513\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Nobody would be worse off\u2014that has long gone, that one. I think the word that I hear more often in Christchurch in relation to that matter, Mr Cosgrove, is the word \u201Cdisappointed\u201D. Every single day I hear people saying that they are disappointed. There are others who are angry and feel betrayed. But in terms of the consumer rights, the protection that he promised would be there has not been there. People have been abandoned to deal with their insurance companies alone, and nobody is standing alongside them. We have people coming to us on a daily basis who are not coping, and I am deeply concerned at the psychological damage that is being done. There are people in our areas who are suicidal because of the pressure that they are being placed under by the rapacious insurance companies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EIf we are seriously going to address consumer law reform, then this bill does not quite go far enough. We will be supporting this bill. Of course it is an improvement on what the current law is, but it does not, by any means, let anyone off the hook for the real reform that is yet to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u00223d919f0339c744dc9de9341354ae2212\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d919f0339c744dc9de9341354ae2212\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to stand and speak at this second reading of the Consumer Law Reform Bill. A review of consumer laws commenced in November 2009 with the then Minister of Consumer Affairs presenting to consumer and industry representatives proposals for a modernisation of and a reduction in a number of consumer laws. All except one of the laws covered by the Consumer Law Reform Bill are more than 20 years old and have not been reviewed in that time, so this is a timely and very important review and update of our consumer laws. Consumer laws are such that they should be seen as fundamental laws that should stand the test of time and not need regular amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EOne of the areas in the bill that the Commerce Committee has worked on is this area of unfair contract terms. Major work was undertaken by the Australian Productivity Commission in its jurisdiction to determine the extent to which unfair contract terms were problematic in Australia. This was outlined in the commission\u2019s report in 2008 on the Australian consumer policy framework. Its investigation uncovered largely anecdotal evidence of an existing problem. The Productivity Commission\u2019s report cited studies that indicated between 5 to 15 percent of all consumers may be detrimentally affected by unfair contract terms each year. We note also that, internationally, modern consumer law provides protections against unfair terms in standard form contracts. In Australia provisions for unfair contract terms are included in the Australian consumer law, alongside protections against misleading and deceptive conduct. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EA term is an unfair contract term only if it is declared as such by the High Court or a District Court on application of the Commerce Commission. This process would ensure that the Commerce Commission was given control of the enforcement of unfair contract terms, and it is most likely that the Commerce Commission would be talking to firms that are using unfair contract terms and would see them comply prior to declaration by a court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe Commerce Commission\u2019s submission noted that in its fair trading enforcement work it had identified some issues that may have been more effectively dealt with, if there were or had been unfair contract terms provisions. Here are some examples. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EA telecommunications company increased the customer\u2019s monthly plan price for their broadband service from $35 to $40 a month, 6 months into a 2-year contract. In doing so, the company relied on a term permitting unilateral price increases in its standard form contract of service. The company told the customer that the price increase was due to an increase in the wholesale that it was paying to a third party for the service. The company insisted that a significant termination fee would be charged if the customer cancelled their contract due to the increased price of the plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EAnother example is a rent-to-own scheme that included terms and conditions in its contracts to the effect that the consumer did not purchase the property, but was granted a right to occupy the property under a 30-year instalment agreement. There were a number of contractual terms that were likely to have been regarded as unfair. For example, the occupiers had to pay for any repairs that the investor companies said needed doing. Also, if the occupiers failed to meet a payment at any time in the 30-year period, the agreement could be terminated. So here are some examples where we would say that consumers were definitely getting the rough end of the stick. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIn another example, a company leased water filters to the lessee for a period of 2 years for a minimum price of $15 a week. The contract included a clause requiring the lessee to exercise a right of purchase or cancel within 7 days of the end of the lease. If the lessee failed to purchase or cancel, then the contract automatically rolled over for a further period of 2 years on the same terms. These requirements were not clearly disclosed to the lessee when the contract was entered into. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWe can see that there are some obvious changes in this Consumer Law Reform Bill. Unfair contract terms is just one significant area. Other areas were acceptable quality guarantee. That is to do with the expectation that a consumer might have that their product has an acceptable quality and also the implications and obligations of the trader in that regard. We looked at online auctions. Of course, that was a very important area. One of the areas, I think, that we have come through to an agreement on is that there should be no mode of sale that is exempt from the Consumer Guarantees Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI am very happy to commend the good work of our committee, the Commerce Committee, and this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022e990419d2dc847289c545127c4397b50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e990419d2dc847289c545127c4397b50\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to pick up where my colleague Lianne Dalziel left off, saying that of course we will support this bill, the Consumer Law Reform Bill. We agree with its objectives. Who would not? However, it does not abrogate a Government\u2019s responsibility to be an active player in supporting, maintaining, and enhancing consumer rights. My colleague talked about the earthquake, and I saw there was one member over there who was spitting bile over at this side as she was speaking about the difficult situation that many of our consumers are dealing with in Canterbury, in my area and others. The situation they find themselves in is they are dealing with the monster insurance company\u2014legalled up, with all the experts\u2014and the granny or grandad at 83 years old with a munted house is on their own, not knowing what to do, and receiving very, very little support, if any, from the Crown, apart from the good offices of, say, the community law centres, the citizens advice bureaux and their legal expertise, and others. The odds of them getting a good deal are stacked against them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMost of us in this House are not lawyers, so we do not have that precision of legal expertise to interpret contracts and documents that are put in front of us. But I suspect most of us in this House have the wherewithal to go and hire the experts we need to assure ourselves of the fact that the deal that might be put in front of us by an insurance company in that situation in Canterbury or others either is a good deal or is not a good deal. I know from dealing with local folks in Canterbury\u2014for instance, a very straight example is even when it comes to pathways and driveways, where individual folks have been asked by project managers to sign a contract, and in one case I think it was 14 pages, before the job was done that had blank dollar figures in it. Blank dollar figures\u2014that is not on. The point my colleague was making is that there is a role, even despite this law, for a Government that felt that it was appropriate to surgically intervene on these matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn respect of, say, insurance companies and some of the examples I have cited, there is a role for the Government to surgically intervene, despite the passage of this legislation and its overarching objectives and remedies in respect of consumer rights. We know, of course, that this\u2014what is the term? The behavioural term?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273fd99f9597649f8b7de094f31089e5d\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Unconscionable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228af0e64ddd6e4ffc9fdd4cb92cafc37e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: This unconscionable behaviour is catered for to be dealt with in this legislation. You would have to argue\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228942777d7ae24001b846e2bf4a3fa1b0\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, leave David Cunliffe out of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e15a0ae92ad54e42963219607101806e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, we will get to you in a minute. We will get to you in a minute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f33c18c7b2274ee88f544d7e382cd246\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t be so mean.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022462aebca85af486bab72f8dc156ea41f\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: We will get to you in a minute\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228446e0da15124cbd8f4c8dc6da8bf127\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Nasty\u2019s back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223568158d79594e64a575afb72647490e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, well, I was not the one who interjected on the colleague, as the old acid drop in the corner there has a crack. Unconscionable behaviour is dealt with in this bill. When we talk about\u2014if we are going to talk about individuals\u2014unconscionable behaviour, I am mindful of some examples a bit close to home. One could look at, and one would hope that this legislation would deal with, what I call the \u201CBrown Bag\u201D factor\u2014the \u201CBrown Bag\u201D factor\u2014where \u201CBrown Bag Banks\u201D, of course, got himself into some difficulty\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022820607e75cfe439eb25cc18222c5b53f\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Look, the member can use the illustration, but we are not going to put tags on people\u2019s names.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271837060050a473595c1a6648e4233a7\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Far be it from me to refer to the Hon John Archibald Banks in that way, but we could look at Mr Banks\u2019 situation and ask whether his situation would be dealt with in some way, shape, or form under this legislation. I am mindful of the fact that it deals with false and misleading representations. I would have thought that would be very germane to the Hon John Archibald Banks in his situation in respect of Mr Dotcom. I am mindful here of a passage in the bill commentary that is very interesting, which talks about \u201CUnsolicited goods and services\u201D. We know that the Hon John Archibald Banks alleges that he received some unsolicited\u2014or were they solicited? We are not quite sure of the nature of the bodyguard or what was in the brown bag\u2014and I am not referring to the Hon John Archibald Banks\u2014or whether those services, or goods, or dollars, or rocks and stones, or gold bars, or whatever they could have been, were unsolicited or not. Mr Banks maintains they were not solicited. Mr Banks maintains that when he received the bag, the sack, the envelope, the whatever, he did not know what was in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI am mindful of the passage in the bill commentary, under that heading of \u201CUnsolicited goods and services\u201D, that says: \u201CTo ensure that museums could\u201D\u2014I do not know whether they are referring to that old political relic John Archibald Banks\u2014\u201Cstill treat anonymous goods left with them as gifts, rather than as goods left under their care which they are obliged to try to return.\u201D I do not know whether\u2014that old political relic Mr Banks\u2014when the officials drafted this, they were mindful of Mr Bank\u2019s situation. I do not know. I do note with interest, and I would ask whether this was an unsolicited good or service, in the media that Mr Banks has purchased an elephant. I do not know whether that was an unsolicited purchase or\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297a2aacf248e46ad8bf32b60020acbd9\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: The elephant in the room.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f975a8f0df148cc8b9621fc348418f8\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: The elephant in the room. I do not know the name of that elephant, or whether that elephant has been given a name\u2014maybe \u201CBrain Fade\u201D or something like that. But I do note from fifth form science that, I am told, elephants have a damn good memory, and I am wondering whether Mr Banks has looked at this legislation and thought that maybe a remedy for his lack of memory was to purchase an elephant. That elephant may be able to provide some instruction. He may remember what his name is. He may remember where he comes from, what he did yesterday, whether he took a helicopter ride, whether he met Kim Dotcom, what was in the brown bag, and what was in the envelope. This could be very, very instructive. It could be a remedy in medical science that we have simply not seen to date, and Mr Banks may have made\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b67d1210d4c544949c162557043a3d8e\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: High technology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229da2499a35c447a792a75743d70f1441\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: This could be, as my colleague said, a high-tech breakthrough, given that elephants never forget\u2014elephants never forget. So I look forward to the scientific or DNA evidence or research that will probably be published in Harvard medical journals and other learned institutions around the world, as they compare the size of Mr Banks\u2019 fading memory and cranium with that of his elephant \u201CBrain Fade\u201D, and it will be interesting to see where we go with that. I know that the learned judiciary in coming days next year may call the elephant, actually, as a witness on medical advice\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ac4658267344d4d9f1bb1516dd5230d\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: The only credible witness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232dc6dbb7a41420dae2f38c97cb2a05b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the only credible witness\u2014to provide some sort of benchmark for amnesia or other medical conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E On a more serious note, this is important legislation. None of us in this House would disagree with protecting and enhancing consumer rights. We have seen cases over recent years where consumers have been led down the garden path, have not had their rights preserved, and have been abused commercially and otherwise. I suppose I should come back to my original point, which was that there is still a role for the Government, because even this legislation, once put through\u2014and I do not mean any disrespect to our communities\u2014is reliant on those in the communities who have the experience, the skill, or, in many cases, the financial resources to act in a way that, despite the legislation, can protect their own interests. What I get concerned about are those vulnerable souls out there who do not have the experience, perhaps, of us in the House and other places and who do not have the\u2014I will not say \u201Cguts\u201D; that would be inappropriate. But those who would not be brave enough, if you like, in the face of, say, insurance companies to say no, to resist, or have the confidence\u2014that is the word I was looking for, \u201Cconfidence\u201D\u2014to resist some of the pressure that is put on consumers, they are out there on their own. They do not have the facility to seek advice, and they do not have the resources to seek advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EAll they are seeking, actually\u2014they are very smart\u2014is to know whether this is a good deal or not, but they do not have the resources that we do in our areas of interest to gain that backup, to have that confidence, or to gain that support. Despite this legislation, there will always be a role to protect those people\u2014and in some cases, not to be unfair, often from themselves\u2014from a position of a lack of knowledge where they get themselves into difficulty, where they put themselves under pressure, or where they are subject to the pressure of commercial interests. Acting in good faith, as those individuals are\u2014and we have all dealt with them in our various communities\u2014they get themselves tied up in legal and consumer knots. So there is a place here, I think, for consumer education to be enhanced, and there is always a place, despite any legislation put through, where Governments must be prepared, as I said at the start of my speech, to surgically intervene where there are gaps and where commercial entities try to pull the wool.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022 data-id=\u002228a1fa15222d46b5805fd63b75fde4dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228a1fa15222d46b5805fd63b75fde4dd\u0022\u003EMOJO MATHERS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party is pleased to be supporting the Consumer Law Reform Bill. We are supporting this bill because it proposes the most significant changes to consumer law in the last 20 years, because it includes protection for consumers, and because it provides for more effective enforcement of these laws. We all know someone who has been ripped off or exploited in some way to buy a product they did not need, or a service under pressure, who was quoted a misleading price, or who was sold a product that did not perform as expected. This bill will help address and close some of the more significant gaps and loopholes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EI would like to mention here\u2014the previous speaker, the Hon Clayton Cosgrove, notwithstanding\u2014that I was impressed with the level of engagement by the Commerce Committee members, who seemed to put political differences aside and work for the best possible outcome. I also want to acknowledge the very high-quality advice that we received from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, which seemed to be able to produce a swathe of experts on a whole range of issues from consumer goods to auctions and from unfair contracts to third-party payment. The submission process was very interesting, as there were very few submissions from individuals. The bulk of submissions were from businesses, energy companies, retailers, and the like, as well as from community and consumer groups, and I feel that this reflects in part the very complex and detailed nature of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EWe are very pleased that the bill makes it explicit that the Consumer Guarantees Act applies to internet sale sites and requires all traders selling goods and services to consumers on internet sites to identify themselves as such. The Green Party is also particularly pleased that the bill significantly expands the powers of the Commerce Commission, which will enable it to be more effective in carrying out its work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EThe committee has recommended compulsory interview powers for the Commerce Commission. We strongly support this move as these powers are needed to assist the commission in obtaining documents and information that will allow it to properly investigate a company in a timely and cost-effective way. Some people had raised concerns that these powers may be too heavy-handed. We are satisfied that the safeguards proposed in the bill are adequate in that the powers will apply to investigations of serious offences only, and the person being interviewed is protected from having their statement be admissible, except for serious charges if the case were to proceed to court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EIn addition to the increased powers for the Commerce Commission, there are a number of other areas in the bill that the Green Party is particularly pleased to see, including provisions preventing unfair contract terms in standard form contracts. One of the things I particularly questioned about this was whether that would mean it could rule out some very standard contract terms in banking contracts and insurance contracts and rule them to be unfair. The reply was that, yes, it could do that, and that is a move that we hope will eventuate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EHowever, the change that the Green Party is most pleased to see in this bill is the proposed prohibition on making unsubstantiated representations. This provision will address an area that the Green Party has been concerned about for a long time. Many consumers base their purchasing decisions around claims such as having a reduced impact on the environment, using 100 percent renewable energy, being biodegradable, using resources sourced from sustainably managed forests, and so on, and such conscious consumers will often be prepared to pay a premium on the price that they pay for the assurance of such claims. One of the really frustrating things for us is that so many claims are actually not true, are misleading, or are based on \u201Cgreenwash\u201D that we effectively have to become detectives or rely on pressure groups to do that detective work for us in order to be assured that the claim is in fact true, or we have to cross our fingers and hope. We consider it to be a fundamental right of consumers to be confident that claims made for a product are based on truth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EAn unsubstantiated claim also disadvantages businesses that make the effort and do the research to ensure that their claims are based on fact. Currently, the difficulty with the law as it stands now is that it can be very hard or costly to prove a claim is false, and this has proved very onerous on the Commerce Commission. The crucial aspect about the proposed change is that the onus of proof about a claim will shift from the Commerce Commission to the business making that claim. Just imagine, businesses will have to prove that the claims that they make about their products are true. It is disappointing that a significant number of businesses, such as Meridian Energy, argued that it would impose significant compliance costs and be too expensive for them to provide the evidence required. The solution to this is simple. If you do not have good evidence that your claim is true, do not make that claim. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003E However, the committee did take on board concerns about the possible impact on advertising creativity by recommending new clauses that make it clear that the provision does not cover representations that a reasonable person would not expect to be substantiated. I am sure that the makers of a very high-profile product will be relieved that they do not have to provide evidence of wing growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EThe Green Party did have a concern that the Commerce Commission would not have sufficient powers to effectively enforce the prohibition on unsubstantiated representations\u2014a point that was made by Consumer New Zealand. We considered moving an amendment to the bill to give the Commerce Commission the ability to issue power of substantiation notices, as is the case in Australia. We sought advice from the Commerce Commission on this issue and have been reassured by the Commerce Commission\u2019s view that the substantiation provision in this bill is superior to the substantiation in the Australian consumer law because it is simpler, more easily enforceable, and a better education tool. It has also informed us that it does not feel it needs specific substantiation notice powers because it expects to be able to use the existing information-gathering powers under section 47G of the Fair Trading Act, along with, if necessary, the new compulsory interview powers to support the new prohibition on unsubstantiated claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EFor this reason we are happy with this reassurance from the Commerce Commission. I am confident that it will be able to enforce the prohibition and, therefore, we are pleased to be supporting this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u002284b700adc4c643e2a01b8d6eb47ce170\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284b700adc4c643e2a01b8d6eb47ce170\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I suppose as a hard-out user of TradeMe\u2014I have had, I think, from memory, 266 wins on TradeMe\u2014you are always wondering whether the goods you receive, which can range from a sliding door that we purchased from an unfortunate leaky building, and it was only $150 so we thought that was quite a good deal\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6267b89fe8543f89c3acc3631c5ad83\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: You can return the Speakers\u2019 gown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220d792a226d740ccb417c188179a069d\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: We will get to the comedy later. You always wonder whether you have any comeback on the goods you have purchased, whether they were from a shop or whether you were lucky enough to win an auction on TradeMe. My hat goes off to TradeMe, by the way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThis bill, the Consumer Law Reform Bill, allows those who buy off TradeMe, who win auctions on TradeMe and other auctions like TradeMe, the guarantee or the protection, I suppose, of legislation. What that does is it makes the consumer feel a little bit more protected. It makes the consumer a little bit more pleased with himself or herself when they are out buying. But I suppose probably the most important aspect of this legislation is the unsubstantiated representations. We see them on a day-to-day basis, if you look at the TV\u2014you know, on the TV shop, and the shopping channel. The consumer today is inundated with products. That is due to new technology. You are watching it on TV or you turn on your screen on your laptop, and advertising is over the top. So there must be some protection for the consumer. I think that the Commerce Committee in doing its job has actually done an absolutely wonderful job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThere are suburbs\u2014\u014Ctara, Porirua, and Manurewa\u2014that are actually going through this, I suppose, blitzkrieg of people in little vans and trucks who stop outside people\u2019s homes and berate people to sign\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214e06d5d50854211a43fdb0c33672b89\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: National Party candidates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284d6d7334afb4696accb807d627c1672\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is actually not the National Party. In fact, I know a lot of people out in New Lynn who are Cunliffe supporters\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287d86fda0eb3404cabcd21ffdc0b974b\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc403e36a4614f119bb05727d15da9f0\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, there are only one or two. I digress. These people prey on the less fortunate, they prey on people who do not know the law, and they prey on people who cannot read or write, and somehow they sign people up to a contract with huge interest rates. It is predatory. It is the most horrible thing to observe, and I think that what we have achieved here, and what the select committee has achieved here, is some true protection for those who are on the end of those predatory traders. So I want to say thank you to the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EIt is time that the consumer laws in New Zealand were modernised. I think it is a thorough reform. They are clear laws. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d0ed80d940943e3a484f1c64024a205\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not thorough\u2014that\u2019s the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256069ba526e344f4a2f9e33def909382\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think it is, and it will be shown to be thorough, because everybody in this House will vote for this legislation. OK? That is the point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThen we hear from the other side of the House. Half of Clayton Cosgrove\u2019s speech was about the Hon John Banks. Well, my words to Mr Clayton Cosgrove are these: you know, you can talk about the allegations about John Banks, but what about some of the allegations of large donations from the fishing companies to certain MPs? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252b84d7e77314373bafce5a38fea0b9a\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Ooh, that\u2019s a good question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbfea30d1cda4f82a590d26ef1bf72f0\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: And that is not an allegation. That, actually, is on an MP\u2019s return. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9825e4b044a4d3b9c12e5370d04716b\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, declared. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212a0c657cdb7416ba0766871c2debbdf\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh yeah, he declared it\u2014that is right\u2014but he also tried to bring in a member\u2019s bill to actually support that fishing company. For goodness\u2019 sake! That is the sort of area that members opposite do not like. It is easy to make unsubstantiated allegations, it is easy to stand up in this House and say what you want to, but they do not like it when you start to push back on some of those allegations, because they are as guilty as those whom they allege are up to no good. If you can throw it, then please accept that it is going to come back on you\u2014most probably tenfold. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022327483f1d3e143079ebfb46deedc56c3\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Say it outside the House. Don\u2019t be a scumbag.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022158eedd6e44149389332d513c386b7b7\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: The screeching from that member from down in the South Island\u2014that is all they can say: \u201CSay it outside the House.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill. It is the Hon Simon Bridges\u2019 first attempt at legislation, and I think it is a damned good piece of legislation that protects our consumers and makes it easier for the consumer to trade with a bit of protection from a bill that is, I think, a long time coming. I do commend this bill and the work of the Hon Simon Bridges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u00229074ad7bc49545a7969476a7f966627d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229074ad7bc49545a7969476a7f966627d\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I take a call on behalf of New Zealand First on the Consumer Law Reform Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022534ed8f93df94ff08fa23a092c1ad6ff\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I thought Brendan was the spokesman in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204e2d76cf1a04ed1a242cab2d9b876e1\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am the spokesman on consumer affairs, Mr Bridges. As the spokesman for consumer affairs, I can advise the Hon Simon Bridges that we will be supporting this bill, because, after 25 years, it is overdue that there is a review of consumer legislation. This is long overdue, and we feel that it is good legislation to be bringing to this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EIt was very interesting hearing the dissertation from Tau Henare all about his antics with TradeMe and the selling from vehicles outside his house, and all that sort of thing. It certainly would have qualified him greatly to become the next Speaker of this House, with such significant consumer knowledge of TradeMe and all the wins that he has made on TradeMe. What a shame he did not continue through with his position as Speaker, because I am sure that with that sort of background and that sort of ability he would have won support, hands down, from everybody in this House. But, as he did not, we will have to look forward to another day when Tau Henare will put his name forward as Speaker, and we all look forward to that occurring. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EBut in terms of the Consumer Law Reform Bill and the purpose of this bill, certainly it covers all transactions between traders and consumers. That is a very important part of this bill. It will tidy up this whole business of the grey areas\u2014what happens between traders and consumers, particularly online, particularly on the internet, and all that sort of thing, where there is a certain element of risk and where people are a little bit dubious about how to conduct business online. This does tidy a lot of that up in terms of competitive tenders, in terms of ensuring that the goods are received properly and in good order, and that the person sending the goods is responsible for those goods until they are signed for and received by the recipient. Again, that is a good thing because there have been a lot of areas of doubt, particularly with retailers sending things out these days more and more by courier, and by various means, and we need to ensure that the goods are received by the person in proper order as they expect them to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EAlso, in terms of the Fair Trading Act, part of this bill is reviewing the Act to prevent unfair contract terms in standard form contracts. It is tidying up a lot of those standard form contracts\u2014and, again, that is a good thing\u2014and modelling a lot of that on the basis of Australian consumer law. Likewise it is good that we are bringing our standards into line with many Australian consumer law standards. Again, that is very useful because so much does move trans-Tasman, between Australia and New Zealand\u2014so much so these days in fact that often the goods are not housed in New Zealand; they are often housed in Sydney or Melbourne or somewhere else, and they come directly from other places. So it is good that we are lining up with Australian consumer law so that, again, we are better protected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EIn terms of breaches of the Fair Trading Act the penalties are also increased, which is a good thing, going from $60,000 for breaches of the Fair Trading Act to $200,000 for individuals who breach the Fair Trading Act\u2014that is a maximum; to a maximum of $200,000\u2014and for bodies corporate, penalties are going from $200,000 to $600,000. An amount of $600,000 is starting to get into some serious, serious money in terms of possible breaches of the Fair Trading Act, so, again, that is a good thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First has said in this House that we will support good policy and we will oppose bad policy. In this case we believe that this is good policy. This is a good move. This does greatly improve the rights of consumers in this country, but it also probably sets a better standard for providers, for suppliers, for merchants, and for all those sorts of people, so that they very much will know where they stand and what their requirements are in terms of service. Also, the consumer will have a far safer position in terms of doing business, particularly on the internet. Nowadays, with so much being sold via the internet, or via email, or via texts and Twitter, and all sorts of things, it is vitally important, if you cannot physically touch the product but you see it online or whatever, that you have more guarantees and more safeguards to protect you. So we support this, and New Zealand First will be voting for the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u002205fb7939cae045dbb36c5362c062c2cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205fb7939cae045dbb36c5362c062c2cf\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E I also support the Consumer Law Reform Bill, and I commend the Commerce Committee for the work it has done on it. It is good to note that there is widespread support for updating this area of law to reflect technological advances and modern consumer conditions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EMy Christmas wish is that I will be able to contribute further to improvements in our consumer law next year by winning the parliamentary lotto competition, better known as having a bill drawn out of the members\u2019 ballot. I have been working with representatives of the Scrap Metal Recycling Association of New Zealand for nearly a year now, and they and I hope that my bill, the Secondhand Dealers and Pawnbrokers (Scrap Metal Dealers) Amendment Bill, will be drawn early in 2013.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWe have got a serious problem in this country arising from the increasing incidence of scrap metal thefts, and that does come under the umbrella of consumer law. We need to drive the cowboys, who harm the honest operators\u2014and that is the vast majority\u2014out of that industry and make it harder for thieves to dispose of stolen scrap metal, which has become an attractive currency for those who choose a life of crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBut that is yet to come. For now this bill, the Consumer Law Reform Bill, serves a worthy purpose and deserves our support. It has mine. I close, Mr Assistant Speaker Tisch, by wishing you, all honourable members, and all who are listening at this moment a very merry Christmas and a happy summer holiday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022aea597a7feeb4305a4bfe69109c3a1cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aea597a7feeb4305a4bfe69109c3a1cd\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I reciprocate the good wishes of the member opposite, Tim Macindoe, and wish him and his colleagues a merry Christmas too, because we are in fact here in the dead of morning. It is the dead of morning, which may not be as dead as tomorrow morning, because, of course, we have got the press gallery party tonight, but we are in the dead of morning. That is spelt m-o-r-n-i-n-g, but of course in the National Party they put a \u201Cu\u201D in the word, because I have been looking at the latest opinion polls that show the National Party heading downhill, with an inexorable slide to the Opposition benches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EBut, you know, we are a fair-minded Labour Party. We are here to help the Government tidy up what it has obviously put in the bottom drawer to just scrape through at the end of the year. This Consumer Law Reform Bill is important to consumers. This is one of those bills that stand up for the little guy, for the ordinary Kiwis who are often vulnerable in the face of unfair trade practices, commercial bullying, monopolies, etc. You would think it would be a priority for these guys. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ELet us ask ourselves when the bill was introduced\u201420 April 2011. It was one of those feel-good things National members talked about before the last election, to tell New Zealanders that they were on their side, and then suddenly it was just not a priority any more. How long did it take for the bill to get its first reading? It was not until 9 February 2012 that it went to the Commerce Committee and it has languished all the way through the process, until the very last day of the parliamentary school term. The Opposition is playing pooper scooper here, helping it get all the loose ends, the rats and mice, tidied up, and we were not going to let this one by. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWe were not going to let this one by because this one is really important to ordinary New Zealanders. Why is that? Well, you know, the goals of the bill could not be better really, could they? They want consumer protection law and consumer practices, which are, No. 1, fair. Who can argue with fairness? In fact, I think it is part of Labour\u2019s constitution. No. 2 is that it brings in effective competition\u2014effective competition. \u201CEffective\u201D means that it may not be perfect, but it will get the job done. And that does not mean monopolies rule the roost, as they have so often under the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a58cb241e7714c838564b890cadfcf21\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: And they\u2019ve changed the wording.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225778abc38a80486a88f23fb82234c4d5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: And we have changed the wording. We have improved it to ensure\u2014and this was the work of the Commerce Committee; we are quite proud of this\u2014it is the interests of consumers that are protected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220070fa6775314387bc8cca006ba38d5b\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: They forgot that in the original bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278c376975c2f432090dc9ffe400b05c6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: You would think that that would be implicit in the title of the bill, but in the Government and the Minister\u2019s first draft they forget to put \u201Cconsumers\u201D in the purpose clause. Well, it could have been that they were there to protect the monopolies. But we were not going to have it. We ensured that the Consumer Law Reform Bill was here to protect consumers\u2014what a good idea\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db5a1cb6c92e47c39f350509df422abe\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s novel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca646320a14147ebb61d5450a57d5ae4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014exactly right\u2014and to ensure that businesses compete effectively. Well, in the history of National Governments, that has not always been the case, has it? We remember the way that for 10 years at least Maurice Williamson was\u2014remember\u2014the \u201CMinister for Telecom\u201D. What Telecom wanted, Maurice Williamson would agree to. There was no effective competition there until the last Labour Government came in and sorted it out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe electricity industry, under Max Bradford, was a kind of pseudo competition. New Zealand had an electricity system that worked, he split it up into a group of local monopolies that added cost and complexity, and the consumers\u2019 costs went up and up and up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220201dfd61f9849809b8b7077878a209c\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s because they privatised a lot of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224799f149a7644b5fa84c6ffbb039f916\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: That was a typical National Party combination of deregulation and privatisation. New Zealand consumers know it has been toxic. It has hit them right in the wallet, and this bill is a small way of making it up to Kiwi mums and dads and saying: \u201CActually, have a merry Christmas, because we caught this egg before it hit the floor. We\u2019re here to support it through the House on the last day of school.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f24dd69337fe4de4b4e9291053216b9b\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not even going through the House on the last day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2d1543e6c124a8bbd02d75a578f703a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this is at least getting a second reading. We are trying to help here\u2014my colleague is quite right. It is not going all the way through; this is the second reading. God knows, at the current rate of knots, when the third reading is going to be. On this Government\u2019s timetable, it might just go into the next election promising to pass this bill. Well, that would be a help. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ESo what does the bill deal with? Well, the first thing is that consumers are very seldom on a level playing field. It is really important that we as politicians just recall to the public that we understand why that is. If you go to the doctor, the doctor knows more about your illness than you do. The doctor has got more information. When you go to a specialist provider of goods and services, whether it is for a vacuum cleaner or a TV, they will know more about what they are selling than you probably do about what you are buying, although the internet helps even that up a bit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EMonopolies, oligopolies, and cartels are another sort of problem. I want to acknowledge the Government, actually, for one thing. I am being nice to it this morning. I want to acknowledge it for the efforts to have a look at the shipping industry in the Commerce (Cartels and Other Matters) Amendment Bill that is currently before the Commerce Committee. That may help limit some of those cartels, but often it is consumers who are the ones who suffer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EHow do they suffer? Well, here is the content of the bill. We deal with things like \u201Cunsubstantiated representations\u201D. What a wonderful phrase that is\u2014\u201Cunsubstantiated representations\u201D. That means telling porkies. That means when someone is trying to sell something to someone, they say things that are just not true, like, oh, I do not know: \u201CWe will not raise GST.\u201D That would be an unsubstantiated representation, would it not? Especially if you then turned round and said: \u201CHey, I think we\u2019re going to raise it after all.\u201D And then you said: \u201CWell, we never promised we wouldn\u2019t.\u201D That would be an unsubstantiated representation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWhat about: \u201CClimate change is a hoax.\u201D\u2014climate change is a hoax\u2014followed by: \u201COh, we\u2019re going to have a world\u2019s best practice emissions trading scheme.\u201D, followed by: \u201CWell, we\u2019re going to withdraw from the follow-on negotiations of the Kyoto Protocol.\u201D What a national shame that is, and another unsubstantiated representation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EUnsolicited goods\u2014well, we certainly could not top our good colleague Mr Cosgrove\u2019s contribution earlier, who talked about the brown bag that turned up on Jonathan Archibald Banks\u2019 desk. You know, helicopter rides, free iPads, the whole palaver, but he could not remember a thing about it. It certainly is a mystery to us why those unsolicited goods and services were not recalled. Unsafe products, product recalls, and safety officers are also all in here. One of the advantages of this worthy little bill is that it draws together regulatory standards from a bunch of different Acts and puts them in one place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThirdly, it harmonises our law with that of our Aussie mates. We on this side of the House are not one-eyed about that proposition. We do not believe in a knee-jerk response to harmonise with Australia, just because it is Australia. But where Australia has sensible law that provides better protections for consumers, as it does in this case, and a better labour law would be another example, we are happy to see the benefits of harmonisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThere are a number of specific and substantial changes that were made by the select committee to this bill on the way through. If I just perhaps mention a few in passing: firstly, the introduction of a new prohibition on the use of unfair terms in standard form consumer contracts. That is when you go to a shop and you are given a form, or you might get it on the internet when you buy something online, a bit like getting a standard rental agreement on premises. The terms that are in there, because they are standard form agreements, ought to be terms that ordinary New Zealanders can rely on without having to sweat and worry. This bill, thanks to the work of the select committee, provides that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIn relation to those unsubstantiated representations, there is a new test that it should be representations that a reasonable person would expect to be substantiated. We might call that the \u201Cno crap\u201D clause. There is a new provision in the Consumer Guarantees Act that business transactions must be fair and reasonable. We have increased the maximum penalties from $60,000 to $200,000 for individuals, and from $200,000 to $600,000 for bodies corporate. We have enhanced the enforcement powers of the Commerce Commission, and we have removed changes related to the Carriage of Goods Act, which were too complicated to bring into force in relation to when a limited carrier\u2019s risks end and the purchaser\u2019s take place. There is a new guarantee as to delivery, on the other hand, in the Carriage of Goods Act. So that is the kind of perhaps unspectacular, perhaps worthy, but none the less really important stuff that is in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EMay I, in closing, offer Christmas good wishes to you, Mr Speaker, and all your colleagues in the Chair, to members opposite and all around the House, and to our wonderful staff who keep us safe, fed, clothed, and watered around this building. I wish you all and the public well for a very merry Christmas and a happy and peaceful New Year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022966fd04102134431a8cb0fc770e124d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022966fd04102134431a8cb0fc770e124d6\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Before I talk about the bill, the Consumer Law Reform Bill, I echo the greetings to the House from the member opposite, David Cunliffe, who has just sat down. I echo that: merry Christmas to everybody. What irony from David Cunliffe. How the mighty have fallen! He talks about unsubstantiated claims and he talks about fair trading. The irony is in the unsubstantiated claim he made to the Labour caucus, saying he had the numbers. The Labour caucus saw through that. The fair trading that happened in that caucus was that he got demoted, he is on the back benches, and he is speaking not from the front row but from the back row. He calls that fair. That is fair trading indeed. He is lucky that this bill is actually coming to fruition now, and, perhaps, if it had happened at that time, there might have been a claim. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThis bill is a good bill and everybody agrees with that. The purpose of this bill is to make sure that consumers are protected. I want to give two very quick examples of some of the unsubstantiated claims that have bothered a lot of people in the ethnic communities. As a mother I look at some of the ads and I really have to think whether the claims are in fact true or not. I do worry that there are people out there buying them. There have been advertisements for health products that promise to give your child an extra foot in height. Often Asian parents worry that their children are not going to grow as high, as tall, as they should because of differences in diets and whatever. These health products claim that they will guarantee an extra foot. This bill will make sure that those people cannot make those kinds of claims. I think that is a good thing to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe second example is the thing about the Consumer Guarantees Act, which will be amended to better protect consumers who receive goods via a courier. I know of an incident where a local service centre had sent a repaired good, a telephone, back to the owner. The owner could not get to the service centre and had organised her own courier to get it delivered. But when the phone actually got delivered to that person the phone was broken. It was shattered. By the time it went through that whole insurance process, it was a nightmare. It took for ever, and it took months to repair, but a good service centre actually took responsibility and paid for the product using its own insurance company. But there are other companies that are not as responsible, and this bill will make sure that when goods are sent by courier it is actually the sender who is responsible for the good. This bill is a good bill. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022d908919016094002a4c34f43a9f5acf7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d908919016094002a4c34f43a9f5acf7\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. Clare Curran.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00226a325abb619446e9819c8ef118b10b0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a325abb619446e9819c8ef118b10b0f\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to take a short call on this bill, the Consumer Law Reform Bill. This piece of legislation, this piece of law, is a good piece of law. I want to make a couple of comments about the good work the Commerce Committee has done on it. I want to particularly mention the officials, because they have worked very hard to make this bill work for consumers, and they have put an awful lot of effort into it. They do deserve a special mention for that. The Commerce Committee works very hard on the legislation that comes before it, and it works cooperatively and collaboratively around most bills that sit before it. I do want to make that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe point about this piece of legislation is that it is about looking at how in tough economic times you can make sure that consumers are protected. That is very important. It is unfortunate, though, that at this very moment consumers are not being protected in another environment. Pointing to the importance of this bill, this bill is a good, strong piece of legislation in the making. It may be that we can have a good debate around it and the arguments that went backwards and forwards on it. But what we are seeing at the moment is a massive piece of hypocrisy, with that Government intervening in a regulatory process that is going to force up phone and internet bills for New Zealanders, and the Prime Minister intervening and saying that he will not rule out legislation. Ultimately, that will end up being a situation where the consumers of New Zealand lose out\u2014lose out\u2014at a time when they should not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe laws that were made by this Government 2 years ago through the Telecommunications Act were hotly debated in this House. Warnings were given around what might or might not occur. Well, sure enough, it has come to bear that the Government has now got itself in a pickle, and there is article after article appearing on this particular issue, including by the former Telecommunications Commissioner, who came out yesterday and said that it was an unprecedented move for the Government to intervene in this process in a way that is going to affect consumers. It is going to affect consumers adversely if the Government intervenes in the way it says it is likely to do. I want to make that point because it is an extremely important point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAlthough on the one hand here we are debating a piece of legislation that is about putting in place a more fair regime for consumers, particularly in terms of bringing legislation up to date in the online environment\u2014and an extraordinary amount of good work has been done on a piece of consumer legislation\u2014on the other hand we have a situation where consumers are going to be sold down the river. That will all be in favour of propping up the profits of a privately owned company, Chorus, in order to suit the will of the Government and its intentions around ultra-fast broadband. Twelve dollars a month is quite a lot of money for the poorest families and people on low incomes. Twelve dollars a month is at least what consumers are going to be stuck with in their phone and internet prices, at a time when those prices should be going down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThis issue has created widespread horror and uncertainty for the whole of the telecommunications industry, which is seeking stability. This bill, the Consumer Law Reform Bill, is meant to be providing a more secure environment where everybody knows where they stand, but, instead, in an unprecedented move, the Prime Minister has intervened and said he will not rule out legislation. The industry has been sent into turmoil. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThere is the prospect of judicial review of any final decisions that the Commerce Commission does make. This is at a time when there should be certainty and stability in the industry, so that the telecommunications companies can get on with investing, innovation can occur, and more services get developed, which will create more competition, and, ultimately, consumers will be better off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u00229ecd98f1b0e54387b14c78da239131c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ecd98f1b0e54387b14c78da239131c6\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to make a few brief comments on this bill, the Consumer Law Reform Bill. I was on the Commerce Committee, in fact, when it was first introduced, and so it is good to see it make one more step. It was interesting at the time to recognise that a lot of the Acts that this bill amends are actually quite dated\u2014dating back to the 1970s and 1980s\u2014and one Act, the Sale of Goods Act, actually first saw the light of day in 1908. It has been amended since, of course, but it is something like a quarter of a century since we had a serious look at consumer law, and on this bill I think the select committee has done a good job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EClearly, a great deal of work has been done, and there are some quite major revisions, but I do think it is a good piece of legislation, which we are pleased to support. It seems to me that one of the guiding themes, perhaps, of the committee\u2019s work has been, in a sense, to follow the money. By that I mean that I think it has sort of hunted out situations where a seller, a less than scrupulous trader, might be looking for opportunities to extract more money from a consumer without offering value in exchange. I think that is a pretty good theme to pursue in this sort of context. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI am particularly pleased about what have been referred to as \u201Cunsubstantiated representations\u201D, which is a wonderfully florid phrase, basically describing people who are seeking to rip off or mislead. The particular concern, obviously, or one of them, form our point of view is the whole issue around \u201Cgreenwash\u201D\u2014people making unsubstantiated claims about some environmental or social quality or characteristic of a product or service that simply is not there and simply is not able to be backed up or supported. Not only is it unreasonable and unfair on consumers but also it undermines the very good work done by companies that work very hard to offer genuine brand value. They actually work very hard to invest in the sustainability or the ethical in terms of a product or a service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EOf course, there is an ongoing battle in the banana market in New Zealand, which is not a trivial market. Collectively, it seems, we spend about $150 million a year on our favourite fruit. Of course, when you get a company like All Good, which invested a considerable amount of money to get third-party fair trade certification for its bananas, being undermined by a company, Dole, coming in and putting on its product a sticker that says \u201CEthical choice\u201D\u2014a claim that has absolutely no substance and no third-party verification\u2014it is essentially \u201Cgreenwash\u201D. We ought to be driving that out of the market to the extent that we possibly can, and I think this bill makes a useful contribution towards that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI recall when this bill first came up that I was quite surprised to learn the extent to which a recipient of unsolicited goods actually has some degree of responsibility for those goods, despite not having asked for them. I am pleased that there are some provisions in this bill that just push that responsibility back to whomever might be giving or distributing unsolicited goods. It is reasonable that, yes, if something comes to you, you ought not to seek to destroy it, but, equally, I think that if I do not ask for a product to be sent to me, if I have not indicated a wish to receive it, I ought not to have too much in the way of responsibility for those goods. That should remain with the individual who saw fit to send them to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThis bill certainly brings up to date the relatively new phenomenon of internet trading, which is quite commonplace. We all do it. Most people now resort at some point to purchasing on the internet. The provision for people who are in trade is good\u2014professional sellers of goods, as opposed to somebody just clearing out the garage and getting rid of something they do not want. It is important that we understand who we are dealing with, whether it is another private individual or a company, as our expectations are reasonably different in terms of support. So I think that is a good improvement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe final comment I would make is to say I really applaud the effort that has been put into the whole issue of extended warranties. Consumers are not just being offered so-called extended warranties; often they are pressured. Often consumers purchasing electronic goods, for example, are put under considerable pressure to purchase these extended warranties that, in fact, offer very little protection, and often less protection than is already available in the consumer protection law. So it is good to see\u2014I think it is an excellent idea\u2014that a summary must be offered, highlighting what, if any, value is included. So this is good legislation. Compliments to the Minister of Consumer Affairs and the select committee. We are happy to support it. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022260272d82f9648e28e2771192fc72b37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022260272d82f9648e28e2771192fc72b37\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to welcome the further advancement through the parliamentary process that this bill, the Consumer Law Reform Bill, is taking. Consumer laws are important for New Zealand citizens, and it is good to see that after roughly 25 years they are getting an update, they are getting an overhaul, and that some new provisions will be enacted for New Zealanders. Like my colleague Melissa Lee, I too was listening very carefully to the speech by the Hon David Cunliffe. I just simply say to him \u201CWelcome to the backbench, Mr Cunliffe.\u201D Welcome to the backbench. I could never be quite as cutting as my colleague Melissa Lee, but she did make an observation of, oh, how the mighty have fallen. Welcome to the backbench. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EI would just briefly like to comment on one aspect of this legislation that I thought was particularly worth commenting on, and that is the extension of the disputes tribunal\u2019s jurisdiction to cover section 9 of the Fair Trading Act. Having an appropriate level of access to justice for consumers through the disputes tribunal and extending that power to section 9 of the Fair Trading Act, I think, is particularly welcome. It is something that has been raised with me before by a constituent in my electorate, and I am pleased to see that it is being changed through this legislation. It is a good bill. It enjoys wide support amongst the House and I look forward to it passing its second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225e96b3d55fbc4a598f26b25579417a66\u0022\u003ESocial Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223326611ba880490ea266a356efed8388\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u00227da2d4bd0691433091eb5253e4b4e238\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227da2d4bd0691433091eb5253e4b4e238\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Minister of Defence)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Social Development: I move, That the Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. I wish to thank the Social Services Committee for its thorough consideration of the Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill. This bill amends the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001 and the War Pensions Act 1954. The proposed amendments improve service for recipients of New Zealand superannuation or a veterans pension who live alone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe bill includes several changes. The first and most significant change simplifies the process by which older New Zealanders access the extra assistance that recognises the additional costs of maintaining a household on their own. We are making the process simpler and more streamlined. We want to make sure that older New Zealanders are not burdened by unnecessary bureaucratic processes, having to fill out additional application forms. It sees the current extra amount of $26.84 per week after tax, the living alone payment, replaced with a new single living alone rate of superannuation and veterans pension. This will, in effect, combine the single rate of New Zealand superannuation or veterans pension and the extra living alone benefit into a single rate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003ECurrently this extra assistance, known as the living alone payment, is a separate payment. This means that the surviving superannuitant or veterans pensioner needs to make an additional application to receive it. The payment can be paid from the date of death of the spouse only if the application is received within 28 days of death. Otherwise, it is from the date of application. For some surviving spouses the stressful time of bereavement can mean they overlook completing the application. This sometimes means missing out on receiving the living alone payment from the date their circumstances changed. This bill means that no older New Zealander living alone is worse off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThis change will have two key benefits. Firstly, older people living alone will not have to make a separate application to receive their full entitlement. Instead, if their living circumstances change, they can let us know over the phone, by email, or by visiting a Work and Income office. Secondly, this bill will remove the 28-day time restriction, and with it the unnecessary financial hardship that might arise from overlooked applications. The bill provides for a new single living alone rate that can be paid from the day the superannuitant or veterans pensioner becomes entitled to receive it, and that is at it should be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThis change aligns with other operational changes led by the Ministry of Social Development to simplify processes and to improve services. In March 2010 the Minister oversaw the establishment of the dedicated senior service line, separate from Work and Income, to identify ways to deliver high-quality services to older New Zealanders. Since its launch in May 2010 online applications for New Zealand superannuation have become commonplace. Currently around 31 percent of applications are made online. We have reviewed how we process disability allowances and funeral grants, and have continued to grow the number of business partners offering commercial discounts to SuperGold card holders. It is an ongoing priority of the Minister that older New Zealanders can easily access their full entitlements to support and services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe next change addresses the definition of a dependent child. The bill proposes to make the reference to a \u201Cdependent child\u201D in the living alone provisions of the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001 and in Part 6 of the War Pensions Act 1954 more consistent with the definition in the Social Security Act 1964 and the Income Tax Act 2007. Superannuitant parents will continue to receive the living alone rate of superannuation or a veterans pension until the end of the year in which the young person attains the age of 18 years, provided that the young person remains financially dependent and is attending school or in tertiary education. This is consistent with the original policy intent. This change relates to the situation where a child aged 18 years or older who lives with their superannuitant parent is financially dependent and is attending school or in tertiary education. This amendment will ensure a consistent definition of a dependent child across the social assistance system, reflecting that a young person who has attained the age of 18 years is considered an adult for most purposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EI can assure you that this change will not mean any young person living with a superannuitant parent is left without adequate financial support. A fundamental tenet of the social assistance system is that the correct social support, where required, is applied to meet a person\u2019s needs. Living alone assistance recognises the extra costs of maintaining a home on your own and is for a single superannuitant or veterans pensioner, including those who have a dependent child living with them. A person aged 18 or over, irrespective of their own or their parents\u2019 living circumstances, can earn income from paid work. Others might receive a social security benefit, such as the unemployment benefit, or, for people with a temporary or permanent disability, a sickness benefit or an invalids benefit. Other financial support is also available\u2014for example, assistance with accommodation costs or disability-related costs. The Government ensures this range of financial assistance is there for young people in times of need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EFor those in tertiary study, a student allowance or a student loan is available. A student in full-time tertiary study aged 18 to 24 who is living at home is eligible for a student allowance, provided their parents\u2019 combined annual income is under $83,449.01 before tax. Students in receipt of a student allowance, either the full amount or a reduced amount because of parental income, are able to earn up to $206.73 before tax per week before their rate of allowance is reduced. A student in tertiary study who is not eligible for a student allowance because their own or their parents\u2019 income is over the threshold can apply for a student loan for living costs, course fees, and course-related costs. This is consistent with Government policy for all tertiary students. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe bill also contains an amendment of a technical nature. This sees the term \u201Clicensed boarding house\u201D replaced with the term \u201Cboarding house\u201D so that it is consistent with a recent amendment to section 66B of the Residential Tenancies Act 1986. In its consideration the select committee agreed to two minor technical changes to the bill, as recommended by the Ministry of Social Development. The first change extended the date of enactment for the bill to 6 July 2011, in order to account for delays in completing the first reading of the bill. As that date has now passed, the Minister will be introducing a Supplementary Order Paper in the Committee of the whole House to further extend the enactment date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe second change agreed by the select committee expanded the transitional provisions for the bill. This change will enable a client who has been bereaved within 28 days prior to the enactment date to have their application for the living alone payment backdated to the date of death of their spouse or partner. This would allow people in this situation to receive the living alone payment from the date of death to the bill\u2019s date of commencement, and the new single living alone rate thereafter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E The amendments contained in the bill will address issues with the current living alone payment. The Minister is confident that the amendments will ensure a fairer and more equitable experience for older New Zealanders who live alone. In summary, this bill is further evidence of the commitment by this Government to ensure that superannuitants and veterans pensioners receive their full entitlement without an unnecessary burden placed on them to apply for it. The Prime Minister has repeatedly assured the public that New Zealand\u2019s superannuation settings and the age of entitlement will not be changed by this Government. The simple, common-sense changes in this bill streamline the payment. Finally, I thank, on behalf of the Minister, the Social Services Committee for its consideration of the bill and agreement to these arrangements. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022f78160ff35b64de8b4c97be8675cdd69\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f78160ff35b64de8b4c97be8675cdd69\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E We on this side of the House accept the Minister for Social Development\u2019s explanation with regard to the Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill and so Labour supports this bill. The bill ensures that single superannuitants and veterans pensioners who are living alone do not have to make a separate application to receive their full entitlement. Labour supports this bill, as it improves the lives of older New Zealanders by reducing the requirement to make an additional application to receive their full entitlement, and we agree with the mainly technical changes it proposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe Social Services Committee had a chance to receive submissions and has recommended some changes in relation to people who become entitled under the existing law to the living alone allowance before this bill\u2019s date of commencement. There were only two submissions on this bill from the public. They were from the Dunedin Community Law Centre and Grey Power. There was no request to be heard by the committee, but these two submissions were considered. Both submitters gave general support to the bill, but both also expressed concerns with various clauses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe Dunedin Community Law Centre expressed that \u201Cthis change will provide some peace of mind for those who suddenly become single after the death of their partner.\u201D It, however, expressed concerns that new section 4A \u201Cprovides that a person is living alone only if he or she occupies a principal place of residence of a specified kind and does not share that residence, subject to 2 exceptions, with any person who is 18 years old or older. The first exception relates to the person\u2019s dependent child who is 18 years old, is not financially independent, and is attending a school or tertiary educational establishment. However, the first exception applies only until the close of 31 December in the year in which the child turned 18 years old. The second exception relates to a temporary visitor \u2026\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe Dunedin Community Law Centre \u201Cforesee problems with Section 4A for superannuitants and veterans pensioners where their dependent child is enrolled in tertiary education.\u201D It argues that \u201CChildren begin tertiary education when they are 17 or 18 years of age, a standard bachelors degree takes three years which means at the very least a child enrolled to do a nursing degree, a BCom, LLB, BA or BSc et cetera may not be financially independent until they are at least 21 years of age.\u201D For other children it would probably be older. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EFurthermore, it argues that today couples are having children at a later stage in their lives, and we now find parents are still supporting their dependent children in tertiary education as they move into or are in their retirement years. For example, a woman who has a child at 40 years old or in later years may be supporting that child when she turns 65 years old and her child is in their 20s. Similarly, if a man has a child when he is 50 years old, then that child will be 15 years of age when the father becomes eligible for superannuation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe Dunedin Community Law Centre proposed that \u201Cit may be more prudent to have a 12 month clause rather than making this an exception \u2018only until the close of 31 December in the year in which the child turned 18 years old.\u2019 This clause means that a parent with a child born January is able to access the living alone payment for longer than a person who has a child who turns 18 in September.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe Grey Power submission also shared concerns with the same clause. It submitted that \u201CSome single parents may without alternative income or savings wish to support the child through the time that the child is receiving Tertiary Education and there could well be some cases of undue hardship which may need special support.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ESadly the Government did not accept the arguments by Grey Power and the Dunedin Community Law Centre, and did not support these arguments put forward. The Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2bb2e66793f4837ab7e07fedb398df9\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Do they have a Samoan wing of Grey Power?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f95bb66007d4fa88a9b68ab8bc0daa4\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: Almost. The Government is adamant that other support is available for adult children and it says, besides, a child who turns 18 years old is an adult. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EHere is where I have a problem. The Government says that an 18-year-old will have access to their own source of income, either wages from a job, a benefit, a student allowance, or a student loan. I would have to say that every single source of income that the Government has identified for 18-year-olds is drying up, and they are drying up under this Government\u2019s watch. So I find the Government\u2019s argument incredulous and out of touch with the reality New Zealanders are facing today, especially when we take in John Key\u2019s promise to create 170,000 jobs. It failed. It failed, and instead we have 175,000 people without work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe household labour force survey figures show that youth unemployment, ages 15 to 19 years, has gone up to 25.5 percent. For ages 15 to 24 years unemployment has gone to 17.3 percent. Overall since National has been in office, unemployment amongst 15 to 24-year-olds has increased by 16,500 since December 2008. The number of youth not in education, employment, or training overall since National took office\u201415 to 24-year-olds\u2014has increased by 18,000. So when the Government says that 18-year-olds have their own source of income by earning an income through a job, benefit, student allowance, or student loan, I have to say that that is incredulous and most parents would say that is not good enough. Why would any parent want their child to work at 18 years, unless it is towards gaining a qualification? Why would we want our young people to work for 80 percent of the minimum wage? Why would we want, as a country, not to invest in our young people and ensure they have the best opportunities and are supported to gain a tertiary qualification? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ELabour also has concerns about the bill, and we will be putting up amendments at the Committee stage. Our concern is that the provisions in the bill relating to dependent children may not take into account the diverse range of situations that superannuitants and pensioners may find themselves in when it comes to cohabiting with their children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ECurrently a single superannuitant or veterans pensioner is eligible to receive the living alone payment only if he or she does not share that residence, the exception being where the other occupant is a dependent child. The bill will amend this exception to provide that a person who has a child living with them can receive the new single living alone rate only until the end of the calendar year in which that child reaches the age of 18. We are concerned that there will be cases where this distinction will have unintended and unfair consequences\u2014for example, where a child is over the age of 18, but may have an intellectual disability and could still be classified as dependent, or when a child is temporarily unable to support themselves. Also, this policy is inconsistent with the student allowance policy, where a young person is still means-tested against their parents\u2019 income until they are 24 years of age, thereby classifying them as dependent. New Zealand Labour does not believe that these issues were adequately addressed in this bill, so for that reason we will be looking to provide amendments in the Committee stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI want to take this opportunity to wish everybody a very merry Christmas. I know that in the communities in M\u0101ngere, throughout Manukau, this has been a really difficult year\u2014and I sincerely mean difficult\u2014because people have struggled to make ends meet, with high unemployment and with the cost of living. They have just struggled. I hate standing up in this House and supporting bills that this Government puts through, but as a responsible Opposition we do support this particular bill. But in terms of the range of other bills that this Government has put up throughout this year, I want to say to those members that they are hurting our communities\u2014they are hurting our communities. There is no light at the end of the tunnel for hard-working communities such as M\u0101ngere, especially when you have a National Government in power. Merry Christmas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00223ef40d34df234ad4ab5431a8db896dc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ef40d34df234ad4ab5431a8db896dc0\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a time of Christmas cheer, so I will not respond to that particular criticism of the Government, but it is a real shame\u2014a real shame\u2014that the Opposition actually feels that way, because it has opposed every single economic growth agenda that this Government has actually put up. If it wants growth and if it wants jobs, the economy has to perform better, and the Opposition has opposed every single way right throughout. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThis bill, the Social Assistance (Living Alone Payment) Amendment Bill, is a great bill. It may seem that the bill is making minor changes, but they will be significant for the people who are affected by them. The system needs simplifying, and I support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EIt is pleasing to note that even though the previous speaker, Su\u2019a William Sio, sort of talked as if he was opposing the bill, the Labour Opposition is in support of this bill, and so is the Green Party and, I think, the rest of the House. It is, actually, very pleasing to note that we are making things easier for the veterans and superannuitants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe living alone payment is a separate supplementary benefit that recognises that single superannuitants and veteran pensioners who live alone are not able to share the costs of maintaining the household. This payment needs to be applied for separately, and this bill makes sure that it is all together. They will not have to apply for it separately. When veteran pensioners and superannuitants are faced with the loss of a partner or a spouse, they are going through the pain of their loss, and often they are not thinking how they are actually going to apply for a particular benefit. They may not even know that they could have applied for this benefit to help them through the difficult times. So this bill makes it simpler. This makes it easier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAs someone who has great friends who are, in fact, veterans\u2014the K-force, the Korea Veterans Association, are very close to my heart\u2014I do know that when they are grieving, sometimes they do not even know whether it is morning or night. For them, I am thankful for this bill, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022 data-id=\u00225ae79c3686f44c3fb28f9a3ef8bae068\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ae79c3686f44c3fb28f9a3ef8bae068\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I was intending to take just a short call on this bill, the Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill, but the derogatory comments by the last member, Melissa Lee, really open the field for a slightly wider response to what that member was saying. Melissa Lee was saying that this side of the House has not supported the Government\u2019s growth agenda. Well, where is that growth agenda? What growth has been achieved? What that member refuses to acknowledge is that the country is suffering. There are people going into Christmas poorer and with little on the table. That is what my colleague Su\u2019a William Sio was putting on the table, but that member chose to respond in that nasty kind of way. Really, what that member was not acknowledging is that the country is disappointed\u2014is disappointed\u2014in this Prime Minister and is disappointed in this Government because things have not improved. Things have been poorer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1f287445e8340e0bb15493a740ea675\u0022\u003EHon Christopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Concentrate on the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b98e371b9f948e2b14dc6d51f5044e5\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: The member should go back and have another sleep\u2014because he was having one earlier, Mr Finlayson\u2014rather than interjecting with his inane comments. Go back and have a sleep. That might be better, Mr Finlayson, because that is what the member was doing just a few minutes ago. For many in this country, these last 4 years have been years of crisis, I say to Melissa Lee, with 4 years of broken promises, 4 years of no growth, 4 years of more people leaving the country, 4 years of greater unemployment, and 4 years of our youth being just totally disenfranchised. So let that member think about that while she tucks into her Christmas dinner this year, because there will be many who will not be doing that. That is what my colleague Su\u2019a William Sio was putting on the table. This bill is a good bill. We support it. It is largely uncontroversial, so there is no need for the member to invoke all of those nasty things about this side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe need for the bill arises from a decision of the Social Security Appeal Authority in relation to a decision of the chief executive of the Ministry of Social Development. Really, although the amendments to the bill are relatively minor and technical, their effects will be significant on the lives of our most vulnerable\u2014the elderly and those on other kinds of pensions, such as veterans, for example. Change for our elderly is trying, at the best of times. Whatever can be done, as this bill does, to make that transition easier is to be supported, which is why this side of the House has cooperated in the select committee process and supports this bill. To take that risk of trauma away from our elderly at this time is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E The bill makes it clear that pensioners and veterans whose situation changes and who begin living alone will not be disadvantaged, and that the transition to their new status will be a smooth one and, really, can be effected immediately. That is a good thing. So the new single living alone allowance rate will apply to these two groups of people: pensioners and those on veterans pensions. Under the amendments contained in this bill there will now also be a simplified procedure\u2014and that is quite important\u2014for their status as living alone to be effected immediately and automatically. This is a sensible change. Clearly, there was a difficulty with the decision of the Social Security Appeal Authority that had to be fixed up. It has taken a while for it to go to the Social Services Committee and come back, but it is here now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EAnother change has to do with the situations of those with a dependent child. My colleague Su\u2019a William Sio talked about this at great length, and explained that the definition of a dependent child is brought into line with the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act. The change now enables a person going on to superannuation to still be living alone until the end of the 18th year of their dependent child. So until the end of the year that the child turns 18, the person can still, up to that point, be declared to be living alone. That is a sensible thing to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EHowever, it does really raise problems. This is what my colleague Su\u2019a William Sio was talking about. At the select committee we tried to have this matter addressed. In addition to what my colleague Su\u2019a William Sio was saying, there are other situations that really are quite common now in New Zealand. We have talked about people having children later in life, and therefore reaching the stage of retirement when they still have dependent children. With the increase in the number of grandparents now having to care for grandchildren, the chances of that group of people having children dependent on them still living at home, even beyond 18, have not been taken into account. This is why we will introduce some amendments during the Committee stage of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EIn addition to what has already been talked about, there will be those who will have particular and additional needs, especially those with disabilities, so the cut-off at year 18 seems a little bit arbitrary for that particular group of people. There could have been some simple amendments made through this particular amendment bill that would have addressed that, but that opportunity was not taken. As I said, knowing that there is a growing need for grandparents who are on superannuation to take on the care and responsibilities of grandchildren, here we have an opportunity missed that we did not take that into account. We will be talking about that in some detail during the Committee stage, so that those kinds of changes can be made. This is what the Dunedin Community Law Centre people and Grey Power were saying\u2014that this was an opportunity to do that. But we could not convince the select committee to go along with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe other changes, again, are technical. The bill does bring some definitions of licensed boarding houses into line with the Residential Tenancies Act. Although these changes are technical, they have real impact on the lives of our most vulnerable at a vulnerable time. I am pleased that the bill does make those changes for our elderly and those who are veterans, and makes that transition easier, simpler, and seamless. But it leaves a major issue unaddressed. I would like to hear what other members of the select committee who follow will say about that now, as to what were those ideas and how they could be addressed, because it still sits on the table, particularly at a time when it is much more difficult for many young people, especially those who are dependent because of disabilities, to get work and to become independent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EWe all believe in families. We believe that families ought to offer that kind of support. We have prevailed now upon our elderly, mainly grandparents, to take on the care and responsibilities of grandchildren, and when that is made more complicated because of the disabilities that exist in families, then I thought this Parliament would take the opportunity to address that through this particular bill, but it did not do that. There is an opportunity during the Committee stage. I hope members will consider the Supplementary Order Papers that are to come on that particular issue. If addressed, they would resolve a difficulty. This side is quite happy to support this bill, with that proviso. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EReturning to what I started with, this is not the time, through this bill, to talk about this side\u2019s response to what the Government is trying to do, because the Government needs to live on its own record over the last 4 years. That record has not resolved the misery of many families, and, as they go to Christmas, we ought to contemplate that. In the spirit of Christmas, may I finally also wish the House and members\u2019 families a very merry Christmas. Please keep safe. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u002245742a4ab39143428f50656ff4d13d83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245742a4ab39143428f50656ff4d13d83\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill. This bill, as has been stated by others already, seeks to amend the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001 and the War Pensions Act 1954. Currently, single superannuitants and veterans pensioners who are living alone are eligible to receive through the Work and Income process a supplementary benefit, which has to be applied for separately. This is in recognition of the extra costs of maintaining a household. This bill streamlines the system so that people will not now have to go through a separate application to be able to receive their full entitlement. It was great to hear the Minister of Defence, in introducing this bill on behalf of the Minister for Social Development, talking about the importance of people being able to access their full entitlements and to have that support of the State in their time of need, because that is a core principle of the Social Security Act. I would love to hear that kind of discourse more often in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E I would also like to reference the member Melissa Lee\u2019s comments about grief and the importance of having a process that enables people to survive when they are not necessarily able to function in times of grief, how completely overwhelming and destabilising that grief is, how we want more for our old people or anyone in grief than to have to deal with bureaucracy to be able to feed themselves and care for their dependants in that time, and the importance of us as a country being able to support people through that grieving process as well as we can. They are, I think, very important values for us to be able to focus on. A very positive, wonderful thing for us to be able to end the year on is to think about how we can support others in our community in their times of need. So I am thankful to the Government for reintroducing this Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill on the last day of the House for this year, and to be able to focus on those values at this time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI recognise that care for our elderly has been an important, I think, aspect of our society and that we have managed to avoid high levels of poverty within our older population in New Zealand because we have looked at having universal entitlements and streamlining access to income support. It is a very stark contrast, sadly, to the news we have had this week around the levels of child poverty, because in this area we do not have those systems of universal entitlements or ease of access to the existing entitlements. I would love to see some of the thinking behind this bill extended to more of our population to ensure that we can actually address the levels of poverty where they are greatest in our country at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI also note that some of the changes that happened with this bill within the Social Services Committee seem to be very sensible in terms of the transition periods, recognising that in relation to the dates of this coming in, people should not be unduly affected because of the commencement dates and also the change of the commencement dates. It has been 2 years. We had hoped to have, as the select committee had suggested, a commencement date of 6 July 2011, when it reported back. I like that we can talk about this on the last day before the holidays, but really I think it would have been better to be able to get this through the House, when we have so much support for it, a bit earlier so we could have made these changes as they needed to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI would also like to acknowledge the Labour Party\u2019s concerns that were referenced in the minority report, and I look forward to seeing the Supplementary Order Papers that it brings forward because this bill provides that support for people when they have dependants up to the age of 18, but there does not seem to be a protection or provision for people who are caring particularly for dependants over the age of 18. There is a significant chance that people may be caring for children with intellectual disabilities who may be older than that. I would not like to see them miss out on the opportunity of the streamlining support that this bill offers, so I look forward to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E I do need to just say that although we really support this bill, yesterday I was in Auckland at the Auckland Action Against Poverty rally and I saw the impact it is having at the Work and Income offices in Onehunga. It has advocates from all around the North Island who are on the streets outside the Work and Income office there at the moment, where people going into Work and Income can sit down with them and talk to them about their case and find out what their entitlements are. I think 12 Work and Income officers have been designated to work on their cases. What they are finding is that most people have entitlements that they were not aware of\u2014that they had not been informed of\u2014until the intervention of these advocates, and that is as a result of our law at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ENothing that we have seen in terms of the welfare reforms this year has done anything to make our social security system more accessible. They have done nothing to help people get the entitlements that they need to be able to live and support themselves and their children, and I think that is a tragedy. When I was in Onehunga there were queues of people waiting to see these advocates, and we know that that could happen in any\u2014any\u2014Work and Income office around this country. People could turn up and queue to get advice about their entitlements, and they would find out they were entitled to things they had never been told about previously, and that is a shame on us at this time of year\u2014at any time of year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI would also just like to mention in relation to this bill that on the Order Paper there are many bills relating to social security amendments. Indeed, at the Social Services Committee at the moment we are considering another bill relating to social security, and I would just like to reference the submission made in that process by the Legislation Advisory Committee\u2014the committee of the Attorney-General. It noted that the base legislation of social security is not in very good shape because there have been just so many amendments to the Social Security Act without anyone taking it in hand and making it fit for purpose. We keep on picking up these small aspects of it and trying to fix them, or going in with a piece of ideology and thinking and trying to reshape it to meet that. It has resulted in a huge amount of inconsistency and has made the Act really inaccessible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESince the Act was introduced it has been amended 131 times. This actually matters because it means it is really hard for people to know what they are entitled to, and this is when it is about people surviving\u2014people who are struggling to feed themselves\u2014and it is important that they know what they are entitled to. So I am advocating for a complete overhaul of this Act. It would be lovely to see it more consistent with the thoughts behind this particular bill today about making sure everyone can get the entitlements they need and that they are supported in times of stress and able to look after themselves and their children as well as they possibly can. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b38498b24bbb4d59b469a32ba56d90a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b38498b24bbb4d59b469a32ba56d90a6\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to support this bill, the Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill. It makes some small but important changes to a couple of pieces of legislation to allow single superannuitants and single veterans pensioners who are living alone to not have to make a separate application for their entitlement to be fully seen in their pockets, and it also makes some changes to the definitions around dependent children. It is good to see that the House is supporting those changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EI simply cannot sit down without acknowledging and answering the comments from Rajen Prasad. I know he is still living in the good old days of when he was a Families Commissioner. He may never reach those lofty heights ever again, but if he wants to talk about records, let us talk about records. This Government is happy to stand on its record on jobs, which he and Su\u2019a William Sio were referring to, where 13,000 jobs have been created through our 90-day trial\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adcc9ee75d05457192c868efeec0dabf\u0022\u003EDr Rajen Prasad\u003C/span\u003E: How many are going to Australia? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c9ade50e47d49c592fa6b0d8964c446\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and where, Mr Prasad, we saw 6,000 people who would leave the unemployment market if Labour\u2019s policies were implemented. We are happy to see the 3,000 people who gained some jobs through The Hobbit legislation we passed. We know that 9,000 young people, under Labour\u2019s record, ended up leaving the employment market because of the youth minimum wage changes that it made. So we are happy with our record. If Rajen Prasad wants to talk about records and lost jobs, he should look at Labour\u2019s own records, because we have got a record we are proud of. We are happy to say that we have had economic growth policies that have always been opposed by the Opposition but have always been good for the country, and the country knows that, Mr Prasad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022 data-id=\u0022beb02b9f19c642d1bd59f531fbaabd1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022beb02b9f19c642d1bd59f531fbaabd1f\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa lava, malo le soifua lau afioga i le fofoga fetalai. Thank you and good health to you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak on this bill, the Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill. First of all, I say to Melissa Lee that it is wise not to make assumptions on how the political parties on this side of the House are going to vote before we have even had the chance to contribute. This bill was introduced to the House in the previous term, and therefore New Zealand First did not have the opportunity to contribute to its first reading debate. If we did, there would have been some improvement to the bill in order to address a few loopholes it currently has. So although the National Government continues to perform like a pessimist who sees difficulty in every opportunity, New Zealand First is more optimistic in seeing opportunity in every difficulty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EThe current bill aligns itself with modern norms and values that capture the actuality that pensioners are confronted with when making two separate but similar applications for living alone payments. The bill recognises that the stakeholders concerned deserve one simple application, which is indicative of ensuring that pensioners have easier access to what they are entitled to. The current bill now has some teeth behind its lip-service. I want to acknowledge the minority view report by the Labour Party, which raises some very valid points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EThe main benefit of the bill is that it simplifies accessibility to, and increases the utilisation of, entitlements through the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act and the War Pensions Act, for the sole purpose of making one application. The interrelatedness of the two bills recognises the cross-cuts of eligibility in order to receive a supplementary benefit for individuals who live alone. It also recognises the need for greater emphasis on simplifying social assistance procedures for entitlements, so that pensioners may go about their daily lives without fussing over making another separate application. Well, why did it take the National Government over 4 years to do something right? Perhaps the National Government was too busy cutting funding to the 24/7 victims\u2019 helpline. Or perhaps the National Government took too long to realise that it just cannot justify punishing these respected citizens who have sweated blood and tears for us to be where we are now. After all, these are the same citizens who suffered in the gruesome labour force of the past and made sacrifices for our generation, and yet they have not asked for more than a helping hand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EThe proposed changes in this bill are in tune with what pensioners need, and indicate a shift away from bureaucratic red tape\u2014a change that New Zealand First firmly supports. It is not every day that we agree with the National Government, or see eye to eye with it, but New Zealand First recognises the importance of this Government\u2019s duty to properly determine the genuine needs of those who are deserving of welfare, especially when it comes to superannuitants and veterans. Emphasis should also focus on a sustainable increase regarding the payment rate, to make a more effective and positive impact on the lives of many pensioners. Concerns over its capacity to benefit different living arrangements and its traditional, cloudy perception of dependent children have been remedied, and we are very pleased about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u201CLiving alone\u201D is now defined as a person who occupies a principal place of residence of a specified kind and does not share that residence with anyone aged 18 and over. We acknowledge that exceptions are applicable to pensioners who live with a dependent child or a person who is not financially independent and is attending an educational institution. However, we are mindful that the bill still has conflicting consequences for the dependent child upon assessment for the student allowance, and that ought to be addressed further. The definition of a dependent child reflects its modern interpretation and understanding through the Social Security Act, and also that of place of residence, by including boarding houses as a form of residence through the Residential Tenancies Act. The main concern is over its potential overlap with the other entitlements that a dependent student may be confronted with due to his or her living arrangements, which should be considerably important also.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003ESimilarly, there need to be greater clarity and informative measures that allow pensioners to gain greater, shall we say, understanding about their rights and entitlements. This responsibility should be placed on the staff who process these applications, so that there is transparency and communication regarding the well-being of pensioners. Making this a priority will foster more effectiveness and promote better respectability being shown to pensioners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is becoming increasingly more diverse, with different and often conflicting hegemonic ideals that directly affect pensioners. This should not be viewed in a negative way. Instead, this should encourage greater emphasis on providing possible alternatives to meet the pace of a changing society. With this bill, I suppose you could say that it is a step in the right direction, because we believe in supporting good legislation and opposing bad legislation. It might not be excellent legislation, but it provides a slightly better opportunity for our citizens. The positive aspect of the proposed changes is that they afford pensioners the same definitive classification of a dependent child as working-age beneficiaries have. The bill also accepts that there is no unitary residence, and avoids using a one-size-fits-all definition regarding pensioners\u2019 place of residence. This bill can also potentially become futile if it is not dealt with in an appropriate fashion. Egalitarian values need to be open to different circumstances, and policies should also reflect and respond to these differences with urgency and respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EAlthough we are cautious about the potential cracks and shortfalls, New Zealand First supports the bill. We support it because it contributes toward securing the needs of retired New Zealanders regarding easier accessibility. It also minimises rules and provisions around defining a dependent child and place of residence. If my interpretation is the same as that of the Minister for Social Development and her National Government, the proposed changes allow superannuitants and veterans pensioners to receive the living alone allowance. This is beneficial because it excludes the restrictive and insensitive nature of the 28-day rules that govern entitlement when a person experiences the grieving process of losing a loved one. All New Zealanders should be afforded the same degree of respect and dignity, which are principles that underpin our egalitarian values. Equality measures and sustainable schemes should be open to how we live our daily lives, and not be misinformed by how we ought to live our lives. This requires tuning in on how New Zealanders go about their lives, and is symbolic of better governance practices. The intended outcomes of things should have a positive impact on the lives of pensioners in reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EIn the next 30 years 26 percent of the population will be over 65 years old\u2014going from 550,000 to well over 1 million New Zealanders receiving a form of retirement income. The challenge now is to maintain immediate certainty whilst planning for long-term security with additional measures in place. I ask the National Government not to be afraid to take one large step with the bill, because you cannot cross the chasm in two small leaps. The enhancements in this bill reiterate the importance of minimising bureaucracy and maximising the full enjoyment of entitlements. Pensioners are afforded less time worrying about living alone payments and more time spent in enjoying their retirement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First supports this bill in its second reading, with the view of making some minor amendments in order to address some of the loopholes. Allow me to wish all the residents of Manukau East, every member in the House, and, of course, all the SuperGold card holders a very merry Christmas and a safe and pleasant New Year. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a701da4e1b4a49fba3f848b58ec947ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a701da4e1b4a49fba3f848b58ec947ca\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Currently under the regime the living alone payment is a separate benefit, so superannuitants and the recipients of veterans pensions who have become single, normally after a death in the family, then have to make a specific application to receive the additional supplement. The amendment in this Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill corrects that, so now at the worst time in a person\u2019s life, when they have just lost probably their lifelong partner, they no longer have to think of having to go down to the Work and Income office and make an application. That is done automatically. That is just such a good measure on behalf of this National Government. I totally support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EIt is a bit like the measure that this Government brought in with the Juries (Jury Service and Protection of Particulars of Jury List Information) Amendment Bill, where this Government also gave permanent excusal to those people over 65 who consider that, for whatever reason\u2014normally infirmity or distance from the court service\u2014they do not wish to be part of the jury service. It is ironic, is it not, that the members across the House are falling over themselves to support this bill, and yet they opposed what they called an ageist measure in the jury service bill? Well, just get a bit consistent, you guys. I mean, this Government is very clear on the fact that we support older New Zealanders and will bring good legislation to this House to support older New Zealanders. You cannot cherry-pick this stuff like they do across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232da1c6170a547158d8fe89b7ca5326e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Clear about what?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f06a8561493b4b54855494dd1b4f6d76\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Labour does, New Zealand First does, and the Greens do\u2014they are absolutely falling over themselves to support this bill. But let us bring just a little bit of consistency. I think New Zealanders are looking for that, and they get it from this National Government. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u002208ef2f3b70384a0b8fc47a13c4df4c11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208ef2f3b70384a0b8fc47a13c4df4c11\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak to this Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill. As a couple of members of the Labour Party who have already spoken in this debate have said, Labour is supporting this bill. We recognise that the living alone payment allows people who do not or cannot share costs to apply for this special allowance if they are over 65. At the moment, as the previous speaker said, one has to apply for it when one becomes single, usually on the death of the partner, and this bill simply allows that to happen automatically, so someone who has been through a bereavement will not necessarily have to go through the bureaucracy. Obviously that will be a difficult time for someone who has spent many, many years with their partner, and at a time when there has been a bereavement the last thing you necessarily want to do is to go through the paperwork in order to get a little bit more assistance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI cannot let some of the comments that have come from the other side of the House go without comment. Melissa Lee in her contribution to this debate had a crack at this side of the House because we did not support the Government\u2019s growth agenda. Well, if there was one, we might support it, because the only growth that we have seen to date of any note is the growth in unemployment\u2014the growth in unemployment. So Melissa Lee did not mention that. It is up to 7.3 percent. That is the worst unemployment rate since 1999, which I believe was the tenure of the last National Government. So when Bill English was last finance Minister, that is when unemployment was at its worst, and again we are back up to the high highs of 7.3 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThen Jami-Lee Ross got up and said: \u201CWe are happy with our record.\u201D So this National Party is happy with 52,000 Kiwis leaving every year\u20141,000 a week\u2014for Australia, because that is where the brighter future is. Maybe that is what National should have said back in 2008: \u201CWe\u2019ll give you a brighter future by giving you better opportunities and more motivation to go to Australia.\u201D If you on that side of the House are happy with that record, Mr Jami-Lee Ross, well, you know, the people of New Zealand might have something to say about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIs he happy about the record that it has got, of having the worst economic record in 50 years? Is that Government happy about that record? Also, is that Government happy about the record where 50,000 more people have become unemployed in the last 4 years under its watch? Is it happy with that record? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThen the very good chair of the Law and Order Committee, Jacqui Dean, said: \u201CWell, you guys over on the other side should be consistent.\u201D Well, yes, that Government would know about consistency, because this year it has been consistently awful\u2014consistently awful. Whether it be privacy leaks at the Inland Revenue Department, whether it be Novopay, or whether it be larger class sizes, that Government would know a thing or two about consistency in 2012 because this is a Government that has been consistently awful over the last 12 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI will just go back to the bill now, if that is all right, just to give a bit of context\u2014just blowing the system out before we go on holiday. Just looking at the context of these payments, I understand from the regulatory impact statement\u2014and I am very glad that they have given us a table\u2014that about 555,000 people are getting some form of New Zealand superannuation or veterans pension, 73,000 are single and not getting the living alone payment, and 151,000 are single and receiving the living alone payment. So we are not talking about an insignificant number of people here who come under the changes that are within this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAs of 1 April 2010 someone who is married, in a civil union, or in a de facto relationship receives $244, I think, after tax per week; those single and not receiving a living alone payment get $293 a week; and those single and receiving the living alone payment are getting $318 per week. This is as of 1 April 2010, but there may have been changes since then. It is making a difference, this little bit of extra money. I think my calculations say that it is roughly about $25 more per week for these people after tax. So just for those at home who might be listening to this with great interest, there is quite a bit of money involved here for those people who come under this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThis bill obviously ensures that single superannuitants and veterans pensioners who are living alone do not have to make that separate application that I spoke about before. This bill will make sure that it is much more streamlined for them when they become single. There are also a number of technical changes within the bill that Labour is not opposed to. But there are some things that we will want to look at changing during the Committee stage, by putting forward some Supplementary Order Papers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EWe do have concerns that there are provisions in the bill relating to dependent children that may not take into account the diverse range of situations that superannuitants and pensioners may find themselves in when it comes to living with their children. The bill will amend this exception to provide that a person who has a child living with them can receive the new single living alone rate only until the end of the calendar year in which that child reaches the age of 18. I think there will be a Supplementary Order Paper, and I am looking at Dr Rajen Prasad and he is nodding to that effect, to make sure that is fairer\u2014for example, where a child is over the age of 18, but may have an intellectual disability and still could be classified as a dependent, or when a child is temporarily unable to support themselves. But on the whole we think this is a relatively sensible bill, and that is why we will be supporting it, with some changes to be looked at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6229b1f79e54aa39ae13f702621d4f8\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: What a wise old member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022add25ad1e3134c47ac509253137ab4de\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Someone has got a bit of Christmas cheer over there, I see. Su\u2019a William Sio mentioned that there were only two submissions to the Social Services Committee. One was from the Dunedin Community Law Centre, where it did \u201Cforesee some problems with Section 4A\u201D\u2014as I have mentioned before\u2014\u201Cfor superannuitants and veterans pensioners where their dependent child is enrolled in tertiary education. Children begin tertiary education when they are 17 or 18 years of age, a standard bachelors degree takes three years which means at the very least a child enrolled to do a nursing degree, a BCom, LLB, BA or BSc et cetera may not be financially independent until they are at least 21 years of age.\u201D It proposed that \u201Cit may be more prudent to have a 12 month clause rather than making this exception \u2018only until the close of 31 December in the year in which the child turned 18 years old\u2019.\u201D This clause meant that a parent with a child born in January is able to access the living alone payment for longer than a person who has a child who turns 18 later in the year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EGrey Power\u2019s Roy Reid, a very good man who has helped us with our asset sales petition, also highlighted this point in the submission from Grey Power. Grey Power said: \u201CIt must be recognized that many Parents do have Children born much later in life than used to be the norm. Some single parents may without alternative income or savings wish to support the child through the time that the child is receiving Tertiary Education and there could well be some cases of undue hardship which may need special support.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo I just highlight those two submissions from the select committee deliberations. We hope that there will be a few Supplementary Order Papers that may be able to address some of those concerns. With that, I will just say that Labour will be supporting the bill, but with some concerns, and I wish everyone in the House a very merry Christmas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022dcc656996ffd40ca9a322f4f167c0021\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dcc656996ffd40ca9a322f4f167c0021\u0022\u003EMARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E I think 2.6 percent growth in the economy is actually a pretty good result, when you look at what is happening in economies globally. It has been a good debate. I must admit that I was a bit disappointed with Dr Prasad\u2019s comments, with the unfair and unjust attack that he made on the Attorney-General. I think that is really throwing stones when you live in a glass house, because I am sure that if Dr Prasad was to prescribe his speeches, they would be a very good cure for insomnia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E I have to say that this bill, the Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill, addresses this issue at a festive time of the year, and it is very, very appropriate that we recognise our seniors. This bill addresses two issues with regard to the current living alone payment to ensure superannuitants and veterans pensioners living alone do not have to make a separate application to receive their full entitlement. This is important, because it cuts down compliance demands on seniors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EMy colleague Jacqui Dean made the very good point that when a senior does lose their husband, wife, or spouse, there are a lot of other things on their mind in the days that follow other than having another thing to deal with and new forms to fill out and submit, and all the compliance issues around that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EWe are adamant that this group of New Zealanders should not face any unnecessary difficulty in obtaining what they are rightfully entitled to. These changes will ensure a fairer and more equitable experience for single superannuitants and single veterans pensioners who are living alone. This is a very good bill, and I recommend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002230dd07128f6848de8b3b02f5a48c7c38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230dd07128f6848de8b3b02f5a48c7c38\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022c96fbde8f3cc4344892da98501c465df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c96fbde8f3cc4344892da98501c465df\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to take a short call on this bill, the Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill. I do not think there is anyone in this House\u2014and the speeches that we have heard this morning have indicated this\u2014who does not think that it is a very sensible idea for us to enact this legislation. It will make life much easier for many people. I think there is no one in this House who thinks that elderly people who find themselves in circumstances where they need to receive the single person\u2019s allowance need to go through any bureaucratic hassle in terms of accessing that payment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ELabour is happy to support this bill, and it is happy to congratulate the Government on what is sensible legislation, and to make sure that this is no longer an issue for our elderly people. It is really good to see that we have taken this sensible approach and that our elderly are protected, and that we have policies in place that have ensured that we have seen the hardship rate for older New Zealanders in fact remain relatively low and relatively flat. So it is not only the relatively low bit but also the relatively flat bit that means we have not seen hardship increasing for our elderly people. The hardship rate has remained relatively low and flat at around 4 to 5 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, this has not been the case for children in our country. Their hardship rate has risen from 15 percent in 2007 to 21 percent in 2011. So we would actually like to see sensible approaches that would address issues that would mean that our children were not living in hardship. It is a matter of working together, like we are seeing with this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe have heard some chipping across the House\u2014I guess it is the last sitting day for the year\u2014and we have been accused of cherry-picking legislation and told that we must have some consistency on what we support. Well, there are a couple of responses to that. One is that we are the Opposition. We are not going to agree with everything you do. Secondly, we are happy to support sensible legislation when you put it up. In fact, we would welcome you putting up more sensible legislation\u2014Mr Speaker, we are sure you would put up only sensible legislation. We would welcome the Government putting up more sensible legislation that did address many of the hardships we are seeing in this country. We would welcome the Government putting up legislation that did something to address the ever-climbing unemployment rate we see in this country. Unfortunately, too many New Zealanders are heading into this Christmas period with no job and they are not seeing a merry time for themselves and their families. And they have a Government that has done nothing over the last 12 months to address those issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut like my colleague did, after talking about some of the broader issues of our economy, I will return to the legislation and the reasons why we are happy to support it. We are happy to support it because what we have seen is a good approach to it, and we have also seen that some of the concerns that have been heard at the Social Services Committee need to be taken into account. We have heard that there are real, practical things we can do to improve this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EOne of the issues we have heard about is around student allowances and the way in which we need to clear up whether there are distinctions that will have unintended and unfair consequences. We need to take a very practical approach to that, where, for example, a child is over the age of 18 but may have an intellectual disability and could be classified as dependent, or when a child is temporarily unable to support themselves. Also, this policy is inconsistent with the student allowance policy, which I mentioned earlier, where a young person is still means-tested on their parents\u2019 incomes until they are 24 years of age, thereby classifying them as dependent. We do not believe that these issues are adequately addressed in this bill. We would like to see some of these other issues addressed. We also have some other concerns about this bill and we are putting forward amendments at the Committee stage. The issue of student allowances is one of them, but we are also concerned that a provision in the bill relating to dependent children may not take into account the diverse range of situations. But on the whole Labour is happy to support this sensible piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd80dee6f103494c8e4ded45d39c68a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd80dee6f103494c8e4ded45d39c68a3\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I am going to take a very brief call on this bill, the Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill, which originally came before the House more than 2 years ago. We are supporting it because this anomaly, amongst the many anomalies in the Social Security Act, needed to be amended for the benefit of the people being affected, as described by other speakers very clearly. We support all beneficiaries, including seniors, being treated with respect and dignity, with full disclosure of their rights, and with a recognition of their particular circumstances, no matter what their age or circumstances. We believe that social assistance should be fair and transparent to all citizens. Consequently, this bill addresses some of those citizens in a fair and transparent way during times of difficulty and complexity for them. For that reason, we are very pleased to support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EHowever, we would like to see a recognition that not just our seniors but particularly our children are entitled to the best possible life and the least possible stress in their access to the basic material needs. Unfortunately, as other speakers have said, we are struggling in this country to meet our fundamental obligations to our children, and they will one day be seniors and their lives will be affected by what we are prepared to provide them with now in terms of their well-being as they go into older age. So it is very important that social security is for everybody. That was what it was designed for. However, under the Victorian ideology that has affected a lot of the Social Security Act, there is a concept called the deserving poor: the goodies\u2014the good people\u2014who deserve to get social assistance, and the bad people who do not. It is interesting when Parliament sets up a moral framework based on Victorian values, and we are having to fight that framework with monotonous regularity in 2013\u2014a long time since Queen Victoria was on the throne\u2014arbitrating between the good people and the bad people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EOf course, people\u2019s lives are very complex: widows, veterans, grandparents caring for children, people with disabilities, people caring for people with disabilities. As someone who has worked as a beneficiary advocate, I have seen that complexity and I have seen how easy it is for the system, with its confused and complex legislation, to judge, and to judge wrongly, and to make mistakes, and to refuse to give clear information about entitlements. So we are very pleased that this bill clears up, for some of those people, the matter around entitlement, which needed to be cleared up. It will not put them under additional stress. We would wish that all bills related to the amending of the Social Security Act were this coherent. Indeed, I support my colleague Jan Logie in her call for a review of the Social Security Act. However, it is very important that at the end of the year we note that welfare has had a terrible year. Welfare has been made more complicated, more punitive, and more difficult. While we see 15,000 children going to school without food and while we see people suffering degrees of poverty and inequality we have not seen before, it cannot be a happy moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EHowever, I want to end on a positive note and say that, particularly for people caring for young adults over 18 with learning disabilities, this bill will be useful. I have been perhaps the sole champion of families caring for people with disabilities in this Parliament who is prepared to say that those carers should receive a proper living wage for their work. We had to go to the court system and we had to fight the Ministry of Health for 10 years to get that decision, and this bill does not cover that decision. Well, I am ashamed that it has taken so long, and I am ashamed that when I held a forum on caring for families with disabilities, no one except the Green Party would support that. I am proud of those families and those carers who stood up in the High Court and managed to get that decision after 10 years, and they are still waiting for the payment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EHowever, alongside that cause, for which I have been a champion, I would also like to acknowledge that the welfare system and this bill will be useful, and wherever it is useful we need to stand up and be positive. That is what MMP is. MMP is about everybody recognising that, no matter who puts up an idea, if it is a good idea we should support it, and if it is not we should challenge it. That is what an MMP Parliament does, and it is great to see that the New Zealand public have supported MMP and affirmed it so that we can do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI would like to end by saying well done on getting this bill through at this time. We needed it done. It has been a long time coming. It will benefit some people. I would like to see next year that welfare legislation reflects the right of all people who need social assistance to get it. My best wishes to everyone in this House for their hard work. No matter whether we agree with the outcomes or not, we all work hard here and we need to have a good break. Kia ora, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u002239605f9a8c254445a946e97297b9c10f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239605f9a8c254445a946e97297b9c10f\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E There is plenty I would like to talk to with regard to the last member, who has resumed her seat, Catherine Delahunty, but suffice it to say that some brilliant work has been going on in the welfare space from this Government. Rights are very much a part of the equation; we are just factoring in a bit of responsibility and obligation in there as well, which is a nice thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThe core purpose of the Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill is amending the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001 and the War Pensions Act 1954 so that single superannuitants and single veterans pensioners living alone do not have to make separate applications. It is pragmatic. It is quite a simple bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThe member from New Zealand First Le\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor asked why the National Government had not done this earlier. Well, one reason is that the National Government has been adopting 132 recommendations of the Law Commission report on the War Pensions Act 1954, costing some $60 million over 5 years, increasing entitlements across the board, extending services to some 3,000 more veterans\u2014actually looking after the people who have served this country to ensure that we have the democracy that we enjoy today. So that is one example of what this Government has been doing, and I thank the member for New Zealand First for giving me the opportunity to talk about that. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022db03d3f6153d495eaa373ab6faed2c6b\u0022\u003EStatutes Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002285db1e8937f845d08fe7b29bbe57f412\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00223be8a590df09450b9bcc7e77dfd94bfb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223be8a590df09450b9bcc7e77dfd94bfb\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Statutes Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Government Administration Committee to consider the bill. As the House will be aware, the Statutes Amendment Bill is an annual legislative vehicle that makes minor technical and non-controversial amendments to a number of Acts. It allows amendments to be made that would not usually receive sufficient priority to be progressed. This is achieved with the support of all parties in the Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe bill as introduced amends 30 Acts administered by nine different Government agencies. Many of the amendments are designed to correct drafting errors and oversights and incorrect references, such as the amendment to section 110 of the Real Estate Agents Act 2008, which clarifies that payments of fines imposed by the disciplinary tribunal should be made to the Real Estate Agents Authority. Previously, the Act did not say who the fines were payable to, and the Real Estate Agents Authority was reluctant to accept payment of the fines without specific statutory authorisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe Summary Proceedings Act 1957 currently refers to a section of the Domestic Violence Act 1995 that has been repealed and replaced. The amendment to the Summary Proceedings Act corrects this error by substituting a reference to the replacement section. The amendment to section 134(1)(b) of the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act 2009 corrects a cross-referencing error by replacing a reference to section 131(b) with a reference to section 131(d). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe amendments make unobjectionable refinements to machinery provisions, including two amendments to the Electoral Act 1993, which allow certain payments by a party secretary to be paid by direct credit instead of just by bank draft or bank cheque. A new section inserted into the Passports Act 1992 allows for travel documents such as passports to be cancelled on the death of the holder. Currently, travel documents cannot be cancelled on the death of the holder, which increases the risk that such documents could be used fraudulently after the death of the rightful holder. An amendment to the Real Estate Agents Act 2008 confirms that a registrar can consider objections to licence applications on the papers, unless either party requests a hearing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe examples of amendments I have mentioned demonstrate the value of the Statutes Amendment Bill as a vehicle for advancing technical yet important amendments. I look forward to the passage of this bill, working constructively with parties as such bills are put together in the near future. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u00226cd2a7eb90e24214bdd84616715d364f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cd2a7eb90e24214bdd84616715d364f\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This is the second time in the past fortnight, I think, that the House has dealt with a Statutes Amendment Bill, but for anybody who is confused about that, the two bills are distinct pieces of legislation at different stages. The Statutes Amendment Bill that was dealt with by this House last week was the Statutes Amendment Bill from this year. This Statutes Amendment Bill, which is being read a first time, is the series of miscellaneous and technical amendments that have been agreed across the House ought to be made to a series of statutes\u201430 in total\u2014and that are to be progressed in the coming year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EAs I have said before on Statutes Amendment bills, they are dealt with by a particular procedure in this House. The Standing Orders provide that if any member of the House objects to the inclusion by the Government of any clause in the bill, then that clause must come out and not be debated. That is how we safeguard the convention that these sorts of bills will deal with only minor technical corrections to legislation, and do not have a deep policy content, but none the less they need legislative amendment in order to better guarantee the administration of the law in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe Labour Opposition, on that basis, is happy to support the first reading of the Statutes Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00224272c0dad35047fab338f7a11449fd57\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224272c0dad35047fab338f7a11449fd57\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to speak on the Statutes Amendment Bill, which is now having its first reading. Statutes Amendment bills are always annual bills that provide a legislative vehicle for minor, technical, and also non-controversial amendments to existing statutes. They seem to be a bit of a pre-Christmas feature of this House. These bills allow us to keep our statutes and our laws up to date, allow us to keep them accurate, and also user-friendly. The previous bill that has just gone through the House is probably a good example of this Government\u2019s drive to be user-friendly for the people of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EStatutes Amendment bills have been a feature of the New Zealand system for many years, through the 1950s and the 1960s, and though for a while they were put into abeyance, here they are back again. This current bill before us, which is having its first reading today, amends 30 Acts that are administered by nine different Government agencies, so, as you can imagine, it is quite a good job to get all those amendments put together into one bill. I congratulate the Minister Chester Borrows on bringing this bill to the House in pretty good shape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EMany of the amendments are designed to correct drafting errors and oversights. We do try in the select committee, in our deliberations on bills, not to let drafting errors and unintended oversights get through, but none the less they do happen, and so those amendments are brought forward for correction in this bill. Just perhaps for an example of that, an amendment to the Real Estate Agents Act of 2008 clarifies that payments of fines imposed by the disciplinary tribunal should be made to the Real Estate Agents Authority. Previously the Act did not say who the fines were payable to\u2014a bit of a mistake\u2014and the Real Estate Agents Authority was reluctant to accept payments of the fines without specific statutory authorisation. That is absolutely fair enough. That is what the Parliament is about\u2014to give clarity to those organisations that are carrying out the will of Parliament. In this first reading I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1cb7addef48454fa95dc4758bfca489\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1cb7addef48454fa95dc4758bfca489\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E By definition, a Statutes Amendment Bill deals with issues that are uncontroversial, non-contentious, and generally minor and technical, and those facts justify the use of an omnibus bill. The bills generally go through without major debate, but I have read through this Statutes Amendment Bill and it seems to me that, although the measures it contains are by and large innocuous, they also are, interestingly, a catalogue of Government botch-ups since the last election. I want to give the House some examples of that by going through the bill part by part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022551e9ee86422415b8885d5c2efee3c4f\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: We haven\u2019t got all day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022347e0f1425354aea9294096bac268a43\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: It might need an extension of time, as Mr Twyford has explained. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EPart 1 deals with the Accident Compensation Act, and the section that it deals with, section 331, gives the Minister for ACC power to direct the Accident Compensation Corporation to give effect to Government policy. But I have to say that this has caused enormous problems over the last couple of years. We had the absolute debacle of Nick Smith creating an artificial crisis in claiming that the corporation was insolvent and going down the gurgler. That was, as a respected commentator Brian Fallow described at the time, a whole lot of shrill scaremongering and gratuitous scapegoating. So are we really confident that we want to give the Minister this power to direct policy to the corporation? Nick Smith\u2019s policy was about privatisation. It was about cutting back protection for people. I remember most particularly the concern I had that they were cutting back the counselling for women who had been sexually abused. That was an absolute disgrace. They combined that with cutting back counselling for families of suicide victims. So what sort of a Government is it that directs that sort of policy to the corporation, when it has such negative and damaging effects on individuals? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThen, of course, there was the move to lift the levies on motorbikes. As you are aware, Mr Assistant Speaker, I am a motorbike rider. I got my bill the other day. The accident compensation component for registration was about $531. What annoys me, having never made a claim in 45 years of motorbike riding, is that I am paying for the accidents caused by cars that do not see motorbikes, and by a Government that keeps roads in a state where actually a lot of accidents are caused by the state of the roads. I am wondering whether something that should have been in this bill was addressing those sorts of problems with accident compensation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EBut of course we had a further debacle with ACC, and that was that the Minister for ACC resigned. The Minister resigned because he had written inappropriately on behalf of somebody who had been making a claim to the corporation, and not recognised and not disclosed a conflict of interest in that way. That was not very good. I think that on this side of the House we applauded the fact that the Minister for ACC had resigned, but then we got a new Minister who started off with the whole of her executive of the ACC resigning over breaches of privacy\u2014massive breaches of privacy\u2014but the Minister taking no responsibility. That was not good enough, either. Mrs Collins does not seem to understand the doctrine of ministerial accountability. We are still waiting to find out actually who did leak those documents relating to Bronwyn Pullar, because we have never had a satisfactory explanation from the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI want to come to Part 4 of the bill, which is about the Armed Forces Discipline Act. What worries me about this is that, given the reports we received recently at the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, at the rate of attrition in the armed forces, there will not be an armed force to discipline. I am wondering why we have got this part of the bill before the House. I say that with a real concern about what is happening\u2014a real concern for the Government side to listen to. Is the National Party aware that there has been a drop in the regular force personnel in the last year of more than 1,000 personnel? A thousand of our regular soldiers, sailors, and air personnel have disappeared from the armed forces, taking them down to about 8,500.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221662ee22568640c8bb7ea64408084860\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238935c45e68d49dcb71e54b9baf51169\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Why is a very good question, as my colleague has asked. Some of it seems to have been deliberate\u2014people are being sacked\u2014and some of it seems to be inadvertent. People are so demoralised that they are leaving in droves. What did we find in the select committee? We found that the attrition rate was 21 percent in the last year\u201421 percent. If you looked at the navy it was 23 percent. What the Defence Force itself acknowledged was that this is absolutely unsustainable. At this rate we will not have a defence force in a few years, so I am not quite sure why we are amending the Armed Forces Discipline Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EA particular concern for me is what is happening to women in the navy and the air force, because the attrition by women was such that in the last 4 years the numbers have dropped by more than a third. Here we are in modern New Zealand saying that there should be equity between the genders and that we want to see women participating, and what is the record of the National Government? It has been a drop of a third in the number of women in the navy and in the air force. That is pretty serious. Why are we losing these people? We are losing them because the morale, which the Defence Force regularly monitors, is the worst ever on record. Only just over a third of the people in the Defence Force actually want to be there. Two-thirds are either ambivalent about being there or are negative about being there. There is only one ministry that does worse than that and that is the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, where the Government has ripped the guts out of it and most of the employees do not want to be there. So much for that part of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThen we come to Part 10 of the Statutes Amendment Bill, and that is amending the Electoral Act. This relates largely to the lodging of list nominees and the payment of deposits, but I wonder whether the National Government in fact has much more significant changes in mind that it is not revealing here. I know the National Party has been looking very closely at what the Republicans at the state level did in the United States. What the Republicans did before the last election was try to devise every mechanism they could to stop people enrolling and stop people being able to vote. That is the negation of democracy. But I hear a whisper that the National Party is intending to close off the date at which people can enrol before an election at the issuing of the writ, so a month before the election. That would disenfranchise tens of thousands of people. I want to ask the Minister who introduced this bill, the Associate Minister of Justice, in putting in a fairly innocuous provision in this bill, is that disguising what the Government is intending to do further down the track in relation to the Electoral Act? We would be utterly opposed to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThen we come to the next part, which is Part 11, on the Extradition Act. Well, that is the daddy of them all, because that relates to certain crimes with transnational aspects that are deemed to be included in extradition treaties. That brings to mind one of the most colossal stuff-ups that this Government has made this year, and that is in the Kim Dotcom case. I want to know from the Associate Minister\u2014the police got it wrong, the Crown Law Office got it wrong, and the Government Communications Security Bureau under John Key\u2019s leadership got it wrong, so what is going on in this area, and is this provision in the Extradition Act actually able to address that? Does it address the problem that we found from John Key and John Banks of amnesia\u2014political amnesia? They could not remember what had happened. They could not tell us who was accountable. Mr Key said he did not even know what it was about. The truth was that National was overeager to please United States authorities and, in so dramatically stuffing it up, it has actually undermined the American position. So it has really hosed off the Americans. At the same time it has made the New Zealand public liable to enormous costs in the court action that might be taken by Kim Dotcom against it. John Key said he knew nothing\u2014the Sergeant Schultz defence\u2014but that does not wash. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI want to come to the next part, Part 13, on the Gambling Act. We know that there is another case of amnesia in relation to the Gambling Act, because Mr Banks went down to Skycity, he picked up a cheque for $15,000 in a plain brown envelope, but then he declared it as anonymous. I want to know from the Associate Minister whether there is anything in this change that addresses that form of amnesia and dishonesty where you pick up the cheque personally and then you declare it as anonymous. I want to know whether there is anything in this part of the bill that also deals with the situation where Skycity can go to John Key and say: \u201CYou give us the licence to print money\u201D\u2014actually it is called more licences for pokie machines\u2014\u201Cand we will build a convention centre for you.\u201D I want to know how appropriate that is and whether that is consistent with the changes that are being made here to the Gambling Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI want to, finally, end up on something rather more positive. Well, I hoped it was more positive. It is Part 18. It deals with parental leave and employment protection. But I do not see anything here that deals with the parental leave proposals in Sue Moroney\u2019s Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill. I cannot see any commitment by the Government to allow mums, at a very special time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a00ef11eef746c8b1ce1b60dba833ec\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt the honourable member, his time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b01c62f493404882ac50a6f623cdaed1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b01c62f493404882ac50a6f623cdaed1\u0022\u003EJULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on behalf of the Green Party on yet another Statutes Amendment Bill. We in the Green Party have no objection to the minor technical amendments in this bill. Therefore, I do not believe I can add much to the debate, though I was interested in the many issues raised by the Hon Phil Goff just then. I just commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u00221c7270fa05bd44d88aed6f781ed33656\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c7270fa05bd44d88aed6f781ed33656\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I support this Statutes Amendment Bill. Despite the protestations of the Hon Phil Goff, this is simply a housekeeping bill. It is simply a makeover bill. It is an omnibus bill that is usually done every year to allow us to update, to correct, and to deal with non-controversial amendments to legislation. It is really important that we do our best to keep our legislation accurate, fresh, relevant, and user-friendly. This bill amends 30 different Acts. Those Acts are administrated by nine Government agencies. So these corrections are important in the streamlining of our legislation. Most amendments are very minor: changes to cross-references and to drafting errors or clarification. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EMr Goff seems to think that these amendments are all about errors, but actually that is not so. I was very pleased to see that some of these updates streamline, simplify, and improve bureaucratic processes, particularly those that embrace new technologies, and I would like to give you two examples. The first example is the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationship Registration Act 1995. This is amended under this bill to allow information to be provided by electronic means. That means that it is cheaper and easier to pass that information on. There is also an amendment to the Electoral Act 1993, and there is nothing sinister about it. All it does is allow party secretaries to pay their deposits, when submitting candidates\u2019 names for election, by direct credit\u2014the modern way. You have a record and it goes through the process\u2014simple, cheap, easy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThere is an old saying that a stitch in time saves nine. The updating of legislation through regular statutes bills that improve and streamline is an incredibly important process to keep our legislation relevant and to keep it efficient, and it is done is a cost-effective way\u2014simple, no-brainer common sense. I support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u00227714f874f7224345b74b432c492be3de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227714f874f7224345b74b432c492be3de\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First is happy to support the Statutes Amendment Bill. We are satisfied that all the amendments in it are appropriate for an omnibus bill. They are minor or machinery amendments and they are non-controversial in nature. I have no issues to raise for debate on any of the many minor matters in the bill. New Zealand First will vote for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI wish to close by wishing a very merry Christmas and a happy New Year, firstly to you, Mr Speaker; to all members of Parliament; to all New Zealand First staff in Parliament and in my parliamentary offices in Christchurch, Dunedin, and Invercargill; and to all New Zealand First supporters throughout New Zealand. Especially, I want to wish a merry Christmas and happy New Year to all of the many people in Christchurch who are still struggling with earthquake effects, accommodation and home repair problems, unconscionable rental increases, munted roads and services, loss of business, and loss of jobs. Keep up your spirits and keep trying to get through it all. A merry Christmas and a happier New Year to them, in particular, and to all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba1f7b41dd7249fb9865856e304c3346\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba1f7b41dd7249fb9865856e304c3346\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I had expected someone from the Government benches to take the call, but I am happy to do so. This bill, the Statutes Amendment Bill, has been described by one of the National members as a housekeeping bill, a makeover bill, a simple no-brainer, and common sense. Well, apart from the use of the last two words, I thought it might have been a looking-in-the-mirror description, but, obviously, it was not intended in that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272d68e77b2564a32b5200378ea614572\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: No brain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e5a0d70ca2d440ab27f00c11b89e948\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, a no-brainer in that respect\u2014in many respects. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI want to perhaps start where my colleague Denis O\u2019Rourke ended, and that is that we are ending the debate on legislation\u2014so this is the end of the legislative timetable for 2012\u2014and I have to say that as a Christchurch representative it is difficult to see the last item on the agenda as something that will make any appreciable difference to anyone in Christchurch. As Nicky Wagner said, it is a housekeeping bill, a makeover bill, and a simple no-brainer, and it is common sense, but it is tidying-up. It is tidying up things that we have got wrong in legislation over the time. There are amendments to the Passports Act, to the Insolvency Act, to the Maori Commercial Aquaculture Claims Settlement Act, and to the Parental Leave and Employment Protection Act\u2014but, as my colleague Phil Goff said, these are not the real amendments that the public are looking for in terms of expanding parental leave in a meaningful way\u2014and a slight amendment to the Health and Disability Commissioner Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThere are some more substantial amendments, and\u2014I have made this point before\u2014Statutes Amendment bills can be used for the purpose of making substantial amendments. If they are non-controversial and have the support of the whole House, then it is entirely appropriate to use a Statutes Amendment Bill. I did notice that under the Flags, Emblems, and Names Protection Act 1981 the unauthorised use of words and emblems relating to the 28th M\u0101ori Battalion has been included in this legislation. I really do not know the history as to why that has been included within the legislation, but I just wanted to note it because I thought that it was an important gesture, and symbolic, actually, given that it is the Flags, Emblems, and Names Protection Act, that such a measure could be introduced as part of a Statutes Amendment Bill. I think that shows that there is considerable support right across the House for protecting the integrity of the 28th M\u0101ori Battalion, and I did want to place that on the record. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EGoing back to the comments that Denis O\u2019Rourke was making, there are people in Christchurch at the moment who will not look back on 2012 with great pleasure. In fact, they will look back on it with great sadness, and the sadness is derived from the fact that there seems to be a lack of understanding across the rest of the country of what Christchurch is still experiencing. It is as if the earthquake was so last year and that we are now over it and on our way to full recovery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E Christchurch\u2019s recovery is a long way off, and a lot of the things that have been happening in Christchurch have actually caused people great distress. I see that level of distress in my electorate office on a daily basis. The way I described it recently when I was giving a talk is that I can see people in my office whose mood I would describe as ranging from abject despair to incandescent rage, and that can be describing the same person in the context of a half-hour appointment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe reason that people are feeling that way is that they are feeling abandoned, and they are feeling that the Government is not hearing many of their concerns. That is why a Statutes Amendment Bill being the last bill to be brought to the House at this time of the year really is not sending the message that people would like to hear, and it certainly is not repeating the message that the Prime Minister gave them straight after the earthquake, which was that \u201CWe will stand alongside you. We will stand alongside Christchurch as they recover.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EActually, there are people in Christchurch who feel utterly and completely abandoned by the Government. They have had a zoning decision made on their land that they do not understand. They have had to deal with the challenges of insurance companies, and with the Earthquake Commission, which, God bless its soul, was designed to provide protection for people, but it has been dealing with this scale of incidents that, really, it was not set up to resolve, and as a result it has not been doing a great service for the people who ought to be able to rely on it. So with the challenges that people are facing, they are feeling that there has not been a Government that has been willing to listen to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe lack of community engagement\u2014I mean, we have got amendments here that are dealing with electoral law. Well, that just reminds everyone in Christchurch that we are not going to be allowed to vote for Environment Canterbury representatives next year. We were promised\u2014promised\u2014that we would get our vote back. We did not agree with the Government taking away our right to vote, but we were promised it would come back. So when we see an electoral amendment coming up in this legislation\u2014the last item for the year\u2014it just reminds us that this Government is denying democratic representation in Christchurch. Of course you can have democracy in terms of your 3-yearly election under the Electoral Act, but that is not what democracy means in its total. What democracy means is having a voice and having that voice heard. People in Christchurch have not got a voice that is able to be heard at the moment, because the Government has taken control. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EEvery time\u2014every time\u2014somebody opens their mouth they are accused of being a carper and a moaner. If they dare\u2014if they dare\u2014to participate in an online survey that is organised not by the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority but by their own residents association, because their residents association thinks it is important to know how people are feeling and what they are being faced with in terms of their insurance company, oh no, they are carpers and moaners, and they have got all this time\u2014I will not repeat the word that Gerry Brownlee used in terms of them working on Facebook. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe other thing is that when the Christchurch Press dares to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259ba40fb45794642918d756aa539f18e\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: The enemy of the State!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c3a0140d2ed40089d0c6a5b8fbb9bc5\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014actually challenge the Government on some of the things that it is doing, it is the enemy of the recovery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Speaker is asking me to relate this back to any one of the amendments that are here at the moment. So the amendment that I would like to specifically refer to is to the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families Act, because children have been completely left out of the picture in Christchurch as well, if you think about the schools decision. I mean, announcing that shocking decision, and leaving schools\u2014last Friday was the last day that schools had to put in their submission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be00752e00f24249af86c125c4c2c555\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: They wanted to shut Salisbury\u2014why Salisbury?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201901f7ff2ea4c1fb0ebe4eae5dd920c\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, the Salisbury School decision has been turned over by the court, and I think that every school in Christchurch\u2014every single school in Christchurch\u2014is going to be poring over that High Court decision with a fine-tooth comb. I suspect that there is going to be more action in Christchurch next year\u2014action taken against the Minister of Education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Minister for Building and Construction might indeed smile, because he may be the Minister of Education in the very near future, but that is only if he misses out on the Speaker\u2019s job. We think he would make an excellent Speaker. The reason is that he has good humour. I actually think that Maurice Williamson is the archetypal Speaker, in the sense that you have got to be able to take the mood of the House for what it is. Sometimes people might not be strictly within the Standing Orders, but if it has got the mood of the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b52053948a04ec982c8ed3b36cb0320\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Let the game flow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022280c40b5ace34af192cde23f604ae304\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014if you judge the mood of the House, you let the game flow, as my colleague quite rightly points out. That means that he would be a fair referee in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThis bill does not represent what our city has been looking for from this Government. It is a shame in that regard that the final bill of the year is one that has not been able to address so many of the issues that Christchurch residents are experiencing. But I too join with other colleagues and wish everyone a merry Christmas, and I hope that 2013 brings to New Zealand, and certainly to the city of Christchurch, much more joy than 2012 has done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00227a22807c0add485dbd2630493d3b9e53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a22807c0add485dbd2630493d3b9e53\u0022\u003EMARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call on this, the Statutes Amendment Bill. I would like to congratulate Minister Borrows on bringing such a good bill to the House. It is important that our legislation is kept up to date, accurate, and user-friendly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI would like to mention some comments made by my colleague Nicky Wagner, who, actually, is the one person who has her shoulder to the mill in terms of trying to help and assist with what is happening in Christchurch. I think it is a disgrace, actually, that the last speaker, Lianne Dalziel, got up and spent the whole time trying to manufacture another crisis when there are a lot of people\u2014the private sector, the community sector, and the Government\u2014who are doing a lot of work down there to try to make things better in Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ELike I said, this is a very good bill. There are some very good gems in this bill. There are actually some good cost savings to businesses, which are important, and that has been a big part of the Government\u2019s agenda this year. I am very happy to commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u002245ba00313333417c917f98883252d060\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245ba00313333417c917f98883252d060\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I also take a short call. There is no need to have it any longer than that because this bill, the Statutes Amendment Bill, is nothing more than a procedural matter. It is something that has been happening for many years in this House. I am not sure that it was about pot-shots galore, but it seems to have come to that today, and a few soapboxes have been pranced upon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EHowever, Statutes Amendment bills have been a feature for some time. They are about ensuring that the oversights are tidied up and that the technical deficiencies are remedied. I am happy to commend this bill to the House. It is hardly something that needs to take much time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002263534d4865114ec49e0c053d5c3198c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263534d4865114ec49e0c053d5c3198c8\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to stand and take a call on the Statutes Amendment Bill. I understand, as a new member\u2014like the last two speakers, in fact, on this bill\u2014that Statutes Amendment bills such as these are to make small, non-controversial corrections to existing legislation. It is interesting that in the debates on the Legislation Bill that we had\u2014admittedly, not this one\u2014there is provision there not only for a review of legislation, but for technical corrections to legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe important thing about this bill is that we are, in the last dying moments of the lawmaking part of this Parliament at this time of the year, dealing with a bill that very much sums up where this Government is at. These might be small, technical amendments to existing legislation, but let us look at them. Given all the issues in front of New Zealand today\u2014issues about joblessness, people searching and craving for work at this very difficult time, as the season of goodwill and joy is upon us\u2014we have legislation that does not deal with the issues that New Zealanders want. That is why this bill sums up, really, the year that this Government has had, and where this Government is at. People desperate for work, people desperate to get an increase in their pay\u2014of those who are in work, 60 percent of them cannot even get a pay rise this year, and they want that. What do we see here? We see nothing in the Statutes Amendment Bill, which will perform small, technical amendments, that will allow that to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWe have people who are suffering the inequities of inequality, and my colleague Lianne Dalziel talked about the ongoing unfairness and desperation of people in Christchurch. What did we find in the Statutes Amendment Bill for that? Absolutely nothing. We see small, technical amendments to the Accident Compensation Act. Do we see anything that is going to improve the privacy management and privacy protection of claimants to ACC? None at all\u2014none at all. And those issues are going begging. We have had a grand high report from Australians come in once again\u2014to ride to the rescue\u2014to tell us how to improve our privacy management in ACC. But is there anything in this bill that will help the long-suffering ACC claimants whose privacy has been breached? Nothing at all. What about protecting ACC claimants against bad decision-making? Is there a small, technical amendment that would help? There is nothing at all in this bill about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWhat about in the Companies Act? Where do we see a need for amendment in the Companies Act? What about making directors liable for poor management decisions\u2014just extend directors\u2019 duties slightly, just a little bit, in the Companies Act? Do we see anything in this legislation that does that? Absolutely nothing at all. When we look at the District Courts Act, what is the crying need in the District Courts? It is for more resources so that the decisions can get made. It is good that the High Court can make decisions reasonably swiftly\u2014for example, in the Salisbury School decision. It is good that the High Court can make those decisions, because it has got good, smart judges who can make good, swift decisions on these very important issues, and the parents of those very needy, very important kids at Salisbury School can now enter the Christmas break relieved and with a sense of justice having been done. But is there anything in this legislation that helps the District Court rise to its proper level of functioning and do that? There is nothing here at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWhat about the amendment to the Electoral Act? Is it going to close off the difficulty that our parliamentary colleague the Hon John Banks has been having in his disclosures? There is nothing at all about that. But these are the issues that New Zealanders will go into the Christmas break talking about. They will go into the Christmas break with the last piece of legislation considered by this House doing nothing at all for them. I call this the \u201CGangnam Style\u201D Government. The \u201CGangnam Style\u201D Government goes with the spirit of the times. This is a Government that is riding the invisible horse of lawmaking and policy making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0491729fe6946cc9d626944ddced212\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: Why don\u2019t you put a bit of a dance down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c81c2f3be7124aaeb802cef5772ae158\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I will give you a demonstration. This is the Government that is riding the invisible horse, and it is nothing that is going to help New Zealanders. I would do the other one, but I do not know what that dance style is. This is a Government that is all hat and no horse. It is the \u201CGangnam Style\u201D of Government, and it is riding the invisible horse. It talks big. It talks about making a big difference, and we will see this afternoon all the wonderful messages that it will give to New Zealand as we enter the Christmas break. But will it make a tinker\u2019s cuss of difference to New Zealanders as they gather round the barbecues? They cannot afford steak on the barbecues this year. It will be cheap snarlers from the supermarket on this summer\u2019s barbecues, because people cannot afford much. But they will be saying that this is a Government that is riding the invisible horse of decision making and of policy making. It does not have a policy and it does not have a plan. It does not have a plan that is going to fix things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt has come to the House in the dying days of lawmaking\u2014the dying hours and minutes of lawmaking\u2014this side of Christmas, and it will make small, technical amendments, but are we going to do anything that is actually going to do anything that will actually make a difference to New Zealanders? No, no, no. We will go into the Christmas season making changes to the Insolvency Act, but are we going to protect small creditors? No, we are not going to do anything like that. Look at the Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Act. What was the big injustice a couple of weeks ago? Poor old Sir Peter Jackson, the hero of a nation. He has just made The Hobbit, and the security guard detailed to protect him was a convicted criminal. Is there anything in this legislation that is going to fix that? Not at all. The hero of the nation\u2014the hero of the nation\u2014was subject to the whims of a convicted criminal because our legislation does not provide enough protection to him from that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe only justice, the only thing that is just and right and that is fitting in the zeitgeist of the times, apart from the Government of the invisible horse, apart from the Government that is all hat and no horse, and apart from the Government that has a \u201CGangnam Style\u201D of governance, is the very last piece of legislation amended by this Statutes Amendment Bill, and that is the Wine Act. It will be right for Christmas. What a pity there is not a technical amendment that allows provision of enough wine for all New Zealanders who are celebrating this season and wondering what it is that has hit them, and wondering what sort of Government they have got. It is not interested in dealing with the big decisions and making the big calls that are going to really make a difference. This will be a bill that people will look to and say \u201CIt is time to drown our sorrows.\u201D, so the amendment to the Wine Act 2003 is in every bit fitting in that regard. But we leave our lawmaking duties this side of Christmas again disappointed and feeling flat that the big issues that confront this country and the people in it have gone unaddressed and unattended. That is the disappointing thing about this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThat is why, as I rise to make this call on this piece of legislation, I look forward\u2014hopefully like the rest of us, and certainly like those on this side of the House\u2014to a year next year in which we can get to grips with the real issues, not just the technical amendment to the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act that is in this bill, but real changes that are going to make a real difference, that are going to give people a helping hand, that are going to give people a hand-up, and that are going to give people a chance to make a difference, to improve their incomes, to improve their lot, and to provide for their families and their loved ones in a true spirit of giving and Christmas joy. That is what we needed at this time\u2014to leave our lawmaking duties this side of Christmas in a spirit of hope, and with a sense that we could do something meaningful and real. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EBut this bill is not that bill. It absolutely sums up this Government. It is the Government that speaks big, that says that it is riding on a white steed of prosperity and a brighter future, but actually it is an invisible horse. This Government, while its hands are on the reins, is going to lead us nowhere, and that is why we need a change. We are 2 years out from it, and this bill absolutely encapsulates the spirit of the nation today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00229c8ca2ffb7874187b9bcf97f1ffd8f54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c8ca2ffb7874187b9bcf97f1ffd8f54\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take the final call in the first reading of the Statutes Amendment Bill. Anyone watching would think that this is a controversial piece of legislation that covers all sorts of things. It actually does. It covers 30 Acts, administered by nine different Government departments, but the very nature of the Statutes Amendment Bill is that it is non-controversial, and that is why it is universally supported in this House. But we have heard about Christchurch, and we have heard the member who just spoke before me, Andrew Little, riding invisible horses and singing in the House, which was rather disturbing, I must say. But what we have heard from that Opposition is that actually it is the party of nothing to say, nothing to do, and nobody is listening, so you are desperate to take any opportunity that there is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThis is a very technical bill. It is a housekeeping bill that is universally supported. This side of the House focuses on what really matters. It is another example of a significant amount of legislative change that the Government has put in place this year\u2014I think almost a record amount of legislation that has been passed. On that note, I shall wish you all a very merry Christmas, and say thank you for the contribution to this year\u2019s Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Government Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201212118150fcfcfc074b8daa91b96f00c17379000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 12:41 p.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"