"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002265805d9194a34316862763e147aa074d\u0022\u003EWednesday, 20 March 2013\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223778db3d4e7142dfa21b964098cfe328\u0022\u003EWednesday, 20 March 2013\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226327f043c89a4f49a2670d44f037eff7\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228da289dfab6349268a2f6a3e968c3378\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb5df3226837442b9039fc838f33555c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00228f9c7b21a6114c76ba86de4dc3bef24f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f9c7b21a6114c76ba86de4dc3bef24f\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Before we come to questions, I would like to ask you to, not now but with due consideration, rule on a question of order in relation to the transfer of question No. 1 today. I think as you are aware, this was originally lodged to the Prime Minister. It was slightly differently drafted, and it asked the Prime Minister\u2019s opinion on the Prime Minister\u2019s criteria. As you are aware, the question has been transferred. The Prime Minister has chosen not to answer the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s question. I have been able to go back only to 2002, because that is as far back as the electronic records do show, and there is no example in the period 2002 to 2013 where the Prime Minister has been shown in the House to be unwilling to answer a question\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d964477cec3c4bb0872127ee625f97ff\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f4b8bba69d64ba89ab68a2d232d12a0\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014well, no, this is a factual matter\u2014unwilling to answer a question from the Leader of the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc911809b0dd4564b955b48be8c52017\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Has the member finished his point of order? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285be599bbe8e4442af7b6338eccfc846\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: The last point that I would want to make is that the Prime Minister always holds information that is not available to other Ministers: the briefings from the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, and the private briefings that he gets from business people in Auckland and in other places. When people want to question him on whether a particular criterion has been met, it is his mind and the briefings that he has had that are important, not those that the Minister for State Owned Enterprises has had. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022baf675c82cc34a3387f55dc0a6ce588c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022baf675c82cc34a3387f55dc0a6ce588c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As I understand the point of order that has been raised by the member, he is asking me not to disrupt the proceedings of the House today but to have a more significant look at it. I am only too happy to do that, but I do refer to Speakers\u2019 rulings, which certainly give the Government the ability and the right to transfer questions as it sees fit. So we will proceed today\u2014[Interruption] Order! And I am happy to meet the member after question time to further discuss that matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220b5b2c12e02349c9a6343bd90523d85e\u0022\u003EState-owned Assets, Sales\u2014Criteria\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4166a907cc342b7908f128b01a2050c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4166a907cc342b7908f128b01a2050c\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for State Owned Enterprises: Has the Government met the five criteria the Prime Minister laid out for proceeding with asset sales?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022c542970b583245b0b6f58a54142972e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c542970b583245b0b6f58a54142972e9\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister for State Owned Enterprises):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. In particular, one criterion was that New Zealand investors would be at the front of the queue and that we would need to be confident of widespread and substantial New Zealand share ownership. At 10 o\u2019clock this morning the number of New Zealanders who had pre-registered their interest in Mighty River Power went over 400,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269ee97f22b564f7caaf9f8593b1064b1\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: When the Prime Minister said that the third criterion would be that companies would need to present good investment opportunities for investors, with which international investors had the Prime Minister had discussions that have yet to be made public?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1310920ba9545cda012df259b734a74\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of that answer, of course I am not able to tell them exactly to whom the Prime Minister has spoken, nor am I able to comment on the nature of the investment at this time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffccd2eb8b9c47508dbe2232feb410b2\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This just illustrates the inability of the Government to be able to answer a question from the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262262a22382a4e80a071db16cde50356\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister addressed the question. He said he was unable to relate a conversation\u2014[Interruption] Does the member have further supplementary questions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022911ceea75ad44d4cb9bb88d967646d90\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: When the Prime Minister said that the second criterion would be that New Zealand investors would need to be at the front of the queue for shareholding, from which of his former colleagues from financial markets had he received briefings on this issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3ffceda79f9479994b8354d1253b23e\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I do not think the Prime Minister needs any briefings from people on putting New Zealanders at the front of the queue, because that is what this Government has done\u2014400,000 people have pre-registered. They know that by pre-registering they are entitled to more shares than those New Zealanders who do not pre-register, and they know that there will be\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265d8946aaeb44250b4ec880c0a3f44c2\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That was a really straight question and this is not in any way close to an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b05800edf490491e88cf90043272f0c0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And it was adequately addressed. The difficulty I think that the member has is the barrage of interjection coming from immediately behind him. [Interruption] Order! Does the member have a further supplementary question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022600ee59693394242a84b545a04d80dce\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do. What warning did the Minister of Finance give to the Prime Minister about issues arising from the Contact Energy float?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b6256d294644108a01297e96fc96bdd\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I know that the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance have had a large number of discussions over the Government\u2019s mixed-ownership model programme. I am sure that the most recent discussion they will have had is about the 400,000 New Zealanders who have expressed an interest by pre-registering for shares in Mighty River Power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268c2f90949fe4764bd74a8d3942d5ea2\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I invite you to rule on whether that question was addressed: what warnings did the Minister of Finance give in relation to Contact Energy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e02beb546ac6442db4bde4f7fa80285a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the member, the Leader of the Opposition, to re-ask that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d25aa02de8a64793b1fbb497f8d0daba\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: What warning did the Minister of Finance give to the Prime Minister about issues arising from the Contact Energy float?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217b34be787154c5a96e2fb2dee80d97a\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I have not been in any conversations where the Minister of Finance has given any warnings to the Prime Minister. What I do know is that the Minister of Finance will have told the Prime Minister that there were many New Zealanders who have expressed an interest in owning shares in Contact Energy and it still has one of the biggest share registries of New Zealanders of any company on the stock exchange.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242ef41af91194b9aafd5cd0d3ba96488\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The answer was not anywhere near the question. It illustrates the fact that if the question is going to be transferred to a lower Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224faca9c48b3f4d9899fbe9586d15ff84\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ef2d85f98ee473d87739d0deb0ba5e2\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014they will not be able to know what is happening in the mind of the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b23f30851d1d446ebe8c1c6c4255a528\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022143a6332ea1444d9a6816276247bd0a7\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Here is the real problem\u2014that the Opposition have not accepted that the question lodged in the first place was inadequate to stand for the Prime Minister but most appropriately answered by the Minister for State Owned Enterprises\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c06a14590eb84ce0a914d2a3fbda8578\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! This is a point of order and it should be heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227328a1db65a947dd9109058a64db1c31\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: So, showing his inability to shift the script, the member needs to recognise that if he keeps asking his pre-prepared questions to the wrong Minister, he will not get anywhere near the answers he wants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cd8e461da9747b0bfe7011153bde85f\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Opposition does have a right to question the Prime Minister and the Speakers\u2019 rulings, particularly the rulings of the previous Speaker, were quite clear that the more specific the question, the more specific was the answer we could expect. It is very difficult to ask the Prime Minister a specific question if the minute we put something specific in it, he uses that excuse to duck from it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260855967fb8447ea99e754e1fca711ae\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I have heard sufficient. At this stage I have said to the Hon Trevor Mallard, with regard to the point he raised, that I will have a look at that matter. It was accepted at the start that this question was put to the Minister for State Owned Enterprises. That is where the supplementary questions are going, and in my mind that question was answered quite adequately on the basis of the question that was asked by the Leader of the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ccdff5279be40b38340d9ef7d8107e7\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Can I just ask, then, that in considering your ruling, you do look at the video and tell us what the warnings were that Bill English gave to John Key. That was not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fad49168000b4c309ef827da84c47fa1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Minister, when he answered, said that he was unaware of any warnings. It could not have been clearer than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022132fd68d6ef74da5855018c774277407\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: And\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dbd45f060c34f92bf1032b8d38a756e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! We are now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae9d09a66b3a40fe8c0c0f80301ac96e\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7ceef06876b4b7892e5ce5cb2ab03af\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014getting to the point where we are relitigating a ruling that I have made. If it is a fresh point of order, I will hear it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2e239ec8c124f3594cef924c1137923\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I was standing to agree with you. It was impossible for the Minister for State Owned Enterprises to know what was in those briefings. That was the point that I made at the beginning, when I questioned the transfer. He could not answer for what was in the Prime Minister\u2019s mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265b3320b2f5d472ba1b611d8819b483b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is always very comforting when the Hon Trevor Mallard rises to agree with me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b0207eee69e4381a0577a85530d48f7\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou. Will the Minister make it part of his key criteria moving forward to ensure that the prospectus for the asset sales will \u201Cclearly and prominently explain that the Crown\u2019s decision regarding its 51 percent shareholding must be \u2018consistent with the principles of the Treaty\u2019\u00A0\u201D, and how will this advice be enacted?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022835439bb544f4a36838ffad4647dd39a\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has made it clear what its obligations are in respect of both the law and the views of the Supreme Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9f018cae5614b0ea438287b3eea7dd8\u0022\u003EHon John Banks\u003C/span\u003E: Could the\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e4da420c8ed42f1b6a29f01a8fb701f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I want to hear the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022838757d844c9412583d242b597e2893c\u0022\u003EHon John Banks\u003C/span\u003E: Could the Minister for State Owned Enterprises tell me whether funds could be used from a secret bank account in New York to purchase shares in this initial public offering? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cc43b19de5a4ca88a17de4ad08a2052\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A legitimate question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea2188f078b84ddda22b07b93f1289e0\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very good question, because if a New Zealander was one of the pre-registered 400,000 and they were able to get the benefits of that pre-registration in terms of their shares, they would have to pay for them. We would be unclear of whether the bank account was secret or not, but we would presume people would actually know they had a bank account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c19738a12ae94ad2a2c2831cc964f202\u0022\u003EBank Failure, Management\u2014Open Bank Resolution Scheme and Bank Deposits\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u0022cfb9137ade1a4f0ea1e3ccd3061ebba5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cfb9137ade1a4f0ea1e3ccd3061ebba5\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Will New Zealanders have money taken from their bank accounts to fund a bank bailout under his proposed Open Bank Resolution scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022585b1270522b46dbb66e25dcd95a6eff\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the Hon Steven Joyce, my office has been advised that this answer may be somewhat longer than normal because it contains quite some detail for the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9d05c2f513c48e09be5e925e40126bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9d05c2f513c48e09be5e925e40126bb\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Acting Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I do not agree with the way the member has characterised the open bank resolution scheme. In the highly unlikely event that a New Zealand bank failed and went into statutory management, the open bank resolution scheme would actually help depositors. The bank would reopen the next day and customers would have full or partial access to their funds, which would then be Government guaranteed. That situation should be compared with two alternatives that would be on offer. One is that the bank would go into liquidation and customers may not have access to any of their funds for a long period. The other would be that the Government bail out a bank with taxpayers\u2019 money, and that comes with potentially enormous fiscal costs, as we have seen with some countries in Europe. But, again, could I stress that this is a very unlikely situation. Our major banks are amongst the most highly rated in the world. They are well capitalised and have come through the global financial crisis in very good shape, and since then regulatory changes have strengthened New Zealand banks even further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0a53e59ed134cea844f836cadc10524\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was quite specific\u2014will money be taken out of their bank accounts to fund a bank bailout? I am still no wiser as a result of the Minister\u2019s answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246a2ac8bddd14e1fb0e99c600d508bef\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The answer was very fulsome. Does the member have further supplementary questions? You can delve into it with your supplementary questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022106fa1089e3a4feba00cea4067a2f9d9\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: What amount is likely to be taken out of mum and dad savers\u2019 accounts under his open bank resolution scheme: will it be 10 percent of their savings, 20 percent of their savings, or whatever it takes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e040223834b420a8313182ec97d5b36\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I have got to say that I am actually quite horrified at the member\u2019s scaremongering at this point. It is a highly unlikely situation that the member suggests. The open bank resolution scheme is designed to protect the interests of depositors in the very unlikely situation that a New Zealand bank fails. I think scaremongering mum and dad investors about the sorts of percentages they might lose \u00E0 la what has happened in Cyprus, which is an entirely different situation, is actually pretty irresponsible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223e43bb2ffd84ab5abf1bf6e1fec4fe9\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Having guaranteed the big end of town with the covered bonds legislation currently moving through the House, will he commit to implementing Labour\u2019s proposal to protect the deposits of ordinary New Zealanders, which would ensure that the first $30,000 of all bank deposits is guaranteed; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ff5c730d2ec4c02866ccde2e1b0191e\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I actually struggle with the member\u2019s question because I am pretty sure, sitting in this House over the last 3 years or 4 years, that the member and his colleagues have been massively critical of the outcome of the Government\u2019s bank deposit scheme in terms of its protection of finance companies\u2019 depositors. Now suddenly he is of a view that somehow the Government should step in again and protect depositors\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a5442b2e465476f9ae3db55960c69e2\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars wasted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022092cb146ede54b539447ac575c91ffad\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: No, it was not wasted\u2014it was not wasted, at all. It was actually protecting the interests, through the Crown Retail Deposit Guarantee Scheme, of New Zealand depositors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220301179a9c124e6086c3a1eb0ac1eaf1\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. With respect, that did not even get anywhere near the question. I simply asked whether, having guaranteed the big end of town through the covered bonds legislation, he would commit to implementing the proposal we have put forward. He talked about the Crown Retail Deposit Guarantee Scheme and responded to an interjection, but he never answered or even addressed that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a63691a1c22e4a1eb11cc6a3ed437b79\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister said he did not accept the proposition that was put by the member. If the member wishes to ask further supplementaries, he has the ability to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f9fac5387724809be189cfbd8bab82a\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ad46abcfb3c4ab4b0ff69d84bfc24fe\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is the member questioning my ruling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f818bb867fa0433288e296d18a40b320\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e239f5179fe4cd9a83308533f119739\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Then it is a fresh point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271fd8dc3c69e467cbec729ff7947fd9e\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: It is, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e8ab13616844a44bbd67a0f7332b290\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And it is not to do with the question that has just been answered?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bb78f061aae42d3a95ffe9e0a73cbf2\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister said he was struggling, Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8abe1634add40fbb65d9c3206974277\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is now relitigating the decision I have just made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f66ecbf8221a4146b0234e9e77e88578\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister saying that it is not part of the open bank resolution scheme to access depositors\u2019 accounts in order to fund a bank\u2019s bailout?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d19d6728adb1492a854ff9807cc1c345\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I think, possibly, it might be helpful for the House, given that the member has raised the issue, to take it through what actually does occur with open bank resolution, which addresses the member\u2019s question. Open bank resolution is one option for responding if a bank failure occurs. It actually helps depositors because it allows for a bank to reopen the next day, hence the name \u201Copen bank resolution\u201D. It means that customers would be able to get full or partial access to their accounts and other banking services while an appropriate long-term solution to the failure of a bank is identified. Some of their deposits could be frozen in the short term, but the remainder would be available on the next business day, and would actually be Government guaranteed. If you look at the alternative\u2014if a bank went into liquidation\u2014that process would be complex and time-consuming, during which time customers would not have any access to their funds. In any event, the first losses will be borne by the bank\u2019s shareholders. The open bank resolution follows the usual order of credit preference as much as possible. It is also not intended to be the only option in the event that a bank got into difficulty. I would also point out to the member that this has been in the public domain since 2011, and has been raised and addressed by the Reserve Bank a number of times since then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ca9e8cb7f9d43059804420067da4766\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Question time does not make sense if it is not also answer time. It was a very direct question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e73e4dc9a054ef7a56167b9d2eea99b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! That was a very genuine attempt by the Minister\u2014[Interruption] Order! I am on my feet, and if members want to stay to see the whole of question time they will be silent while I am on my feet. The Minister made a genuine attempt to explain open bank resolution. The answer may not be to the satisfaction of the member. The member has, at this stage, further supplementary questions if he wants to use them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9eb3ce7b5ae43e7ac61b215c49f9222\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Minister why he would prefer an open bank resolution scheme, which in part, or wholly in extreme circumstances, could see the depositor having all their money stopped from their use, rather than a very sound scheme announced by me in October 2008\u2014[Interruption] Well, we were there before you even did the ballot, OK? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dfdb04429304000ab4b5702629b7e94\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7cca63e7b7441dfbc750ac6ee1fe051\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: In 2008. It would have this effect: it would have the effect of a Government guarantee for the first $100,000 of a deposit in a New Zealand - owned bank.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae813cd2374b4683b6372a0810ab8f77\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I could think of a number of issues with the member\u2019s proposal immediately, because what he would be proposing to do would be to guarantee a certain number of deposits in a New Zealand - owned bank, which would mean that suddenly all the money would move, particularly in a difficult situation, like we have with the global financial crisis, from other banks that were not necessarily New Zealand owned, and that would collapse the other banks, which I do not think would be in the interests of the financial stability of the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c4596e804aa4c229528d0234a102713\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re all foreign owned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bc25d3ecd2743daac7c7ccd983d99f4\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Right, so we should actually\u2014here is what Mr Peters is suggesting in a xenophobic way. It is that we should collapse all the foreign-owned banks into the New Zealand\u2014thank goodness he was not in Cabinet during the global financial crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d2ca3bfcab44e8cb11218242f4a906e\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Will he guarantee that mums and dads will have at least $1,000 left in their accounts after an open bank resolution of a failing bank?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccfa7e2832fd4690a8bd88c14a6bcfd3\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The member is deliberately scaremongering yet again about the New Zealand economy. What I can say to the member is this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022533a392db6e14a7395328ba2ad8b804e\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c6bc0262d2e457e915c58e37e82b289\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is a relatively easy question to answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247dc7957cef84e6d91c9ef65a09951e0\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: It is a straight question. He started abusing me\u2014for what? He should just answer the question. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225aaee1356c5479badc7e96aec40d278\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Would the Minister please answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0ed409fbf6145e2b9c4f03db2236b26\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member raises a hypothetical that is just impossible to answer, because he suggests that everybody should get $1,000 out whether or not they have got it in there. The point is this: in the very unlikely event that a bank falls over, there are three options. One is that people lose their shirts. The other option is that the taxpayer pays. The third option is the open bank resolution scheme, which ensures an orderly process that actually has the best chance of protecting a depositor\u2019s deposits. Those are actually the options on the table. The member has criticised the idea of taxpayers bailing out depositors. He is presumably not in favour of depositors losing their shirts, so can I suggest to him that he look closely and positively at the open bank resolution scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba560e8aad5646ed8f63f62ab5201f34\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: So can the Minister please explain to me whether his answer to my last question\u2014will he guarantee that mums and dads will have at least $1,000 left in their accounts after open bank resolution\u2014was no?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225e40d2b2dcf48fda5aa4a0037dbbf3a\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The point is that it is hypothetical and it actually does not take into account anybody\u2019s situation. Look, I appreciate that the member would just print some money and give it back to the depositors, but actually\u2014and here is a guy who claims to be concerned about people\u2019s deposits\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279877c49c0eb4f1bbd789f5d22a9458d\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It was a straightforward question, the Minister had answered it\u2014time to wrap it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296f1266f9128403282ae272a8186ba69\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was a very political question and it got a very political answer back again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287fba232602048709946b9d815e55983\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he not draw a strong line in the sand and protect mum and dad deposits, as they do in Australia and the United States using deposit insurance, and pick a minimum that would be protected, such as $250,000, as is the case in Australia and the United States?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223911e41ce2fe403798df54dd79de5fdc\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: This is a member who is arguing against taxpayers stumping up for deposits one minute\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e88acdffcd3e4e9081416b9db98079b0\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207728328c2514f7e86c8cf88b48ab472\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Would the member please repeat his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d021aa31349147c5bfc3659b07f16f06\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Why does he not draw a line in the sand and protect mum and dad deposits to a certain minimum level, such as $250,000, like they do in Australia and the United States? It is a simple question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4fb3735fd664eccb2d14227b0a02cea\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I was pointing out to the member that what he is proposing is that, effectively, taxpayers stand behind those depositors, which is what happens, as I understand it, in these offshore arrangements. He is also proposing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6a0d3c395f24de291fccf3e2387892c\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b895dde0275447cb07573a0646ce3f7\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, even if it is not the taxpayers, then all he is going to do is make the depositors pay insurance every year, for ever, against the unlikely event of this actually occurring. Actually, the far bigger issue the depositors would have with the value of the deposits would be if the Government got out the printing presses and printed money and inflated away the value of the deposits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9e8e51745aa417f90bc508ad5ab3789\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he propose stealing savers\u2019 money while they sleep, when a fairer alternative would be to have the banks pay to insure themselves against failure, like they do in nearly every other OECD country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f84e7a94de9a415e8c3a92bf463e512b\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, that is a preposterous political statement, suggesting you would steal money from people\u2019s accounts. The member is outrageously scaremongering once again in his own political interests. He has an appalling take on the New Zealand economy. How he thinks that what he is proposing now fits with his idea to print money and inflate away the value of people\u2019s deposits is actually completely beyond me. It is totally inconsistent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221756871b77bb42cca8dcb3870bad9370\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter from January this year seeking information under the Official Information Act from Treasury about open bank resolution alternatives that it has explored\u2014a letter that has not been met yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd41a0ff971542ea95437b8416331e30\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A letter from the member himself?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b0943fde8a74f3e9cceb0c73f6dd089\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: It is from my researcher to Treasury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdd77d5a84a540fe897eb199518abcdb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that letter. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0a125f4477d44798ed306282fa311c8\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter from the Reserve Bank back to us saying that it would not be meeting our request within the time frame, because it does not have the information yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb3f9e11092a4b63829b73ff6c71df28\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table a letter from the Reserve Bank back to the Green Party. Is there any objection to that letter being tabled? There is. It will not be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c105c00a9df54d8b9f4ffdd1f410dd8d\u0022\u003EGovernment Financial Position\u2014December 2012 Balance of Payments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022e74217eee67646acb8ad081d3ea619cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e74217eee67646acb8ad081d3ea619cf\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he received on New Zealand\u2019s balance of payments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022b68dfb44701a41b299b36c40406c9000\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b68dfb44701a41b299b36c40406c9000\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Acting Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Statistics New Zealand this morning released the balance of payments for the December 2012 quarter. This showed a current account deficit for the year ended December 2012 of 5 percent of GDP, up from 4.7 percent for the year ended September 2012. There was a decline in exports worth $1.3 billion for the year ended December 2012. It is pleasing to see New Zealand investors in foreign assets earning record high investment income, and foreign investors in New Zealand reinvesting over 60 percent of their earnings over the last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f487e08c9334b3e9ae7249a93c8007c\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: What was driving the change in export earnings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d014768cc3746a29992a38ef3014b18\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The value of dairy exports fell, due mainly to falls in dairy prices compared with a year earlier, although I would note that total dairy export volumes remain near record levels, and prices are expected to be higher in the next quarter. Crude oil exports were lower, and earnings from tourists declined due to lower spending, although the number of tourists visiting New Zealand is up. Overall, the significant growth that we have seen in the export sector in the previous 2 years has come off a bit in the last year, but, overall, exports are up 15 percent in the 3 years to January.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022399d938ee3614961b2b08b12b408b9c2\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: What was the contribution of oil exports to the balance of payments, and what is the Government\u2019s approach to increasing oil exports?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227523eec951c44e8db2c835926912ac55\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Statistics New Zealand reported a 26.6 percent fall in oil exports in the year to December 2012 compared with the same period a year earlier. That shows the importance of growing exploration and responsible development of our oil resources. There is encouraging progress in this sector. The Government has awarded 10 exploration wells on a committed work programme, totalling $82 million; Methanex has announced that new gas supply contracts will allow it to commence methanol production at its third train at Waitara; expansion of the Marsden Point oil refinery by 20 percent is under way; and the new Crown minerals bill to be passed by May of this year will streamline and simplify permitting processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ff484c3c34449c58344a091c5366e48\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government contributing to reducing the current account deficit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad48e8123aa54d76981e0bf3ea3461e3\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: This is a very important point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227629056a215b411ebf942f3cfe952e86\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Oh really? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8bbf0b9e3e74cfbbb5e955c939f79de\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: It would be helpful for you, Mr Cosgrove. The current account deficit is funded by an investment inflow to New Zealand from foreigners, which totalled $3.9 billion in the December 2012 quarter, and $3.1 billion of this is the purchase of Government debt by foreign investors. That is why it is very important for the Government to remain focused on returning to surplus so it actually lowers its pressure to borrow on international markets, and we are on track to achieve this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229cc10d479c4b4cda9a9eb8bcca36cd52\u0022\u003EOrthopaedic Services\u2014West Coast\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb629c657bd142f4b640de2158d42917\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb629c657bd142f4b640de2158d42917\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Labour\u2014Rongotai)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by all his statements regarding \u201CBetter, Sooner, More Convenient\u201D health care; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022b33fd260a6a54b84ac2a72357c8508e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b33fd260a6a54b84ac2a72357c8508e5\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, within context. I also stand by my statement that 30,000 people were culled off elective surgery waiting lists and that real access to elective surgery was cut for New Zealanders over the 9 long years of the failed Labour\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a4182b0cd40471492f9c5523d1136c0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ae98fec46b94e8bb65e9e231ec5c141\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: It had very little to do with the question, but, however\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bec804f672245a7bb4eb2433dd4f89a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it was answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dfe656b19f041b59aa34a4d760fc845\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: When was he first informed that the orthopaedic clinics had been stopped at Buller Hospital 6 months ago and were unlikely to be reinstated for at least another 6 months, according to the district health board?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a69bb1487edd41f4a82205bae62e7d40\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I would have to check my diary to advise the member of that. I am aware that those clinics have been suspended. They were not particularly regular before then, but it is expected that those clinics will resume, as what has happened in Buller is that rather than have those clinics provided by very expensive locums who have been flown down from Auckland, the orthopaedic service in the West Coast area is now being provided by Christchurch orthopaedic surgeons\u2014a part of that closer transalpine relationship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022936777b7821c4338b18a543bbf215e36\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in light of that answer, if his stated aim is to have \u201CBetter, sooner, more convenient care\u201D in health services provided close to people\u2019s homes, why are Buller patients now waiting twice as long for their first specialist appointment as they were before his \u201Cbetter, sooner\u201D orthopaedic transalpine service was introduced last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cb09952e347440fb224f0678ef98212\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: What I can tell you is that the access of West Coast people to orthopaedic services is far better than that of most other populations of that type around the country. Look, the district health board advises me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264e3f773c11f4f7dac7b37e044be9381\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. He might like to answer the question I asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259c5b6e9e77146fd8d27f0b72b80082e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And the member might like to give him an opportunity to answer the question. [Interruption] Order! We are getting a perpetual barrage now from this side of the House when Ministers are attempting to answer the question. Before the Minister has a chance to sit down, it has been raised as a point of order by the member that the Minister is not answering the question. You have got to give the Minister an opportunity to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205d61aa3eb684a6aa22f959f065f8f2b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think you are getting a barrage, and it is unfortunate because it is often when you are ruling, but I think the problem is that Ministers traditionally have given a flick at the end of their answers. They have started off straight, and this Minister seems unable to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220eb05af2c3444b0e923a461be7eea896\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is certainly difficult when a Minister gives a flick at the end of the answer for me as Speaker to do much about it. The Minister was answering the question. I invite him to continue his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6997da28dd14fdb941c818bcede77be\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: The people of the West Coast do have very good access to orthopaedic services. I am advised that services to Buller\u2014actually, at the Buller Health centre\u2014are expected to resume once the new service has bedded in at the West Coast hospital. We have put in an extra $12 million into the West Coast District Health Board. We are providing more operations, and I can tell those people from Buller that, unlike under the previous Government, they will not be culled from the waiting lists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ca1907d1e6c4d2290c33d3c0d70c40a\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, has he been told there are ongoing teething problems with the new orthopaedic service in Greymouth relating to a shortage of orthopaedic surgeons and the reluctance of Canterbury orthopaedic surgeons to work on the West Coast, leading to a 5-year-old girl having to be flown to Christchurch on the Solid Energy rescue helicopter for treatment for a broken arm?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220741e7fceaa421e91600306929aafa6\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I would have to check the details of that claim from the member, because my experience from last week is that it cannot be relied upon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b711aa67b59349fb90c364bcc003aeae\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. His comments were to denigrate me rather than answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b65b9f6674ed4a7cbfca6bbe31d144e9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question was certainly a charged political question. The answer was a charged political answer. Again we have got the\u2014[Interruption] Order! Again we have got the situation where the Minister is halfway through his answer and the member is raising a point of order about the quality of the answer. It has got to cease.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abf16f58b8534a94b128a346a482a63b\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Can I ask you later to look at the answers from the Minister, because you are allowing unnecessary political swipes when there have been straight questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c031ed3f0a27479f842b900debf83724\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I assure the member that I always take the opportunity of looking back at the transcripts. Would the Minister like to complete his answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022516e6971c0b548a4b19efded6ea10bc3\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I have been assured by the chief executive of the West Coast District Health Board that the board expects to provide a very similar, if not slightly greater, amount of orthopaedic services on the West Coast, and you would expect that, because we have put $12 million extra into the West Coast District Health Board over the last 4 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de7dba318639448582a726d35fa14402\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: If there are 800 more doctors working in district health boards since National became the Government\u2014a claim that has been contradicted by his own officials\u2014why has the West Coast not received its share of this huge increase in doctors, so that its surgery can be provided closer to home with \u201Cfaster treatment, and a better chance for a healthier life.\u201D, all promised by him at the last election?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e69d4c5071534b199975c8841353c333\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Because the latest information I have is that on the West Coast we have 12 extra doctors and 29 extra nurses over the last 4 years. Because we have put quite a lot of extra money into the West Coast District Health Board, it is able to provide more services. We have got more specialist appointments and we have got more operations. We are working to make sure that we get best value for people. That is why it is making some changes in the way it delivers services\u2014working closer with Christchurch\u2014and that is pretty good for the people of the West Coast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229652d1e18fcc422697c7ad6b567c312c\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a cutting from the front page of the Westport News, not a very widely read paper\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6398101738e4fe290f45a48b245805a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is available to members. [Interruption] Order! It is available to members if they so want to get it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aad427a0c0994f1a9b71c0ef2ea69afb\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: No, not in Kait\u0101ia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f13f91b7cedf483498326e71aaefe950\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is, you can go and get it off the net.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4223eba1159458aa64c2ebc5914603a\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table for the Minister\u2019s benefit photographic evidence of the Solid Energy rescue helicopter\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210914e56ec5a456481ef987ef7510a06\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If you really think that is going to inform the House better, I\u2019ll put leave. Leave is sought by the Hon Clayton Cosgrove to table such a photograph. Is there any objection? Yes, there is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220776ce2c67b04c378bb04f2f6f130b64\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You will note, when you go back and look at the tape of today, that this Minister doubted my word over a question last week, and I want to table evidence out of the Greymouth newspaper that a child was flown to Christchurch with a broken arm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c8b0c54f66345618c1e3d356816e339\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The paper is available to members if they want it. We are moving\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f7ba7d407b948e79ca7bd173880917c\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I deliberately waited until the question had finished. I think my point of order was alluded to by the Hon Annette King. It is not open to members to question other members\u2019 words in the House. When a member makes a statement in the House, if it is not true and it is that sort of statement, you may not effectively call them a liar, as Tony Ryall did today\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ff74ae768be4d0ea1689e1f6424014f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Order! I have heard quite sufficient.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220983d9210fbc4f8d8cc197a09f273962\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I think that is an interesting point, because, in fact, in a question there should not be a statement, according to the Standing Orders. So if we get right down to the tight requirements of the Standing Orders in an answer, then we should apply them in a question as well. So the statements that Mr Ryall refers to should never have been made in a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022995864d5d34442ab818aaff659b504b7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the more important thing is that for any member to suggest that someone has been lying would be very serious. That is not what I took from the Hon Tony Ryall\u2019s answer. What he was saying is that he would want the ability to go back and check the facts for himself. That is perfectly in order. There are many times that the word of one member is something that is questioned by another. This is a debating chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e6d5493d857f45ef84e4a2f126312b6e\u0022\u003ECrime Prevention\u2014Pre-charge Warnings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd1983475fc842e3bcb92ef00ca69863\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd1983475fc842e3bcb92ef00ca69863\u0022\u003EMARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: What reports has she received from Police on the success of pre-charge warnings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d850a92888114ec7b12fb741ac2c0292\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d850a92888114ec7b12fb741ac2c0292\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Pre-charge warnings were introduced nationwide in September 2010 as an alternative resolution to low-level offending, such as breaching a liquor ban or disorderly behaviour. In the 2011-12 financial year, police issued just under 22,000 pre-charge warnings, which freed up around 37,000 police hours. This is the equivalent of 21 additional front-line officers out in the community. The warnings also reduced the number of minor offences passing through the District Courts by 12 percent, freeing up the court system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234d1195c6426436b9c7415cf3573fed3\u0022\u003EMark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: What are the benefits of pre-charge warnings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226bf703f6f5f4264b8505d795102b461\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Pre-charge warnings are a common-sense and practical approach to policing. An offender is arrested and taken to the station, removing them off the street and away from a volatile situation. They avoid a conviction for stupid behaviour that would probably have led to diversion, but the warning goes on the offender\u2019s record and is included in police crime statistics. An analysis of pre-charge warnings in 2011-12 found that nearly 80 percent of offenders were not arrested for a subsequent offence within 6 months of the receipt of a warning, showing that police are using their discretion wisely and appropriately, and that offenders are taking them seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b17ed272606c45cdb53408f055a72775\u0022\u003EHousing, Affordable\u2014Auckland Plan and Metropolitan Urban Limit\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002270a0615f2c6947c19466e9a3645578fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270a0615f2c6947c19466e9a3645578fb\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: Why did he tell the House that, even if the Auckland plan took effect in September, new subdivisions would not be available until 2016-17, when the advice he tabled from Roger Blakely of Auckland Council shows that if the unitary plan takes effect in September new land would be available two years earlier?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022a04ae62b4c064122883a35955b2e8795\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a04ae62b4c064122883a35955b2e8795\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Let me quote my exact words, as recorded in Hansard last Tuesday: \u201CEven if the Auckland plan \u2026 took effect in September, it would not mean that new residential subdivisions would be dealt with on a \u2026 non-publicly notified basis.\u201D\u2014i.e., subdivisions would have to be notified. I did not say that they would not be available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022662630df8c89455c869426a16c76b929\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: So who is right: the Minister, who says that the Auckland plan will not deliver greenfield land until 2017, or Roger Blakeley of Auckland Council, who says that the council will have sections on the market by 2015?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcdbfb10b9bc40a0b977f307bc4793d5\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member seems to be missing the point in the difference between when sections and residential subdivisions are notified or not notified. If the plan takes effect in September, as the Auckland Council suggests, it would enable some new subdivisions to come on stream, but they would need to be notified. That means a process of taking submissions and that means potential appeals to the Environment Court, and that can take as long as 2 years. The point I was making\u2014and I will make it to the member again\u2014is that we need to get a point in Auckland where new land is available on a non-notified basis, because, I think, as we all realise, that is what is required to free up land supply and deal with the sorts of issues that have been the focus of the latest report from the IMF.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a786d9e1f8d445e69e034d574fbaf91f\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: If he does not want the metropolitan urban limit and he does not want the new Auckland Unitary Plan\u2019s rural-urban boundary, precisely where is the boundary he is proposing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a940fa6f03f401885cc48d8a3c0f3e2\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I had made plain that the metropolitan urban limit that currently exists within the Auckland Unitary Plan is a major barrier to housing affordability. That point has been made by the IMF, along with concern about interest rates going up for ordinary New Zealand families and businesses. I noted earlier questions from members of the Opposition who are concerned about the balance of payments. Well, why do they not support this Government in its attempts to free up land, rather than defending a metropolitan urban limit that has failed in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220800a6a3be9e4082989431c576711c6f\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked where the member\u2019s proposed boundary is for Auckland. He has not answered the question, and he has been talking for quite a long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e94715b1982421d97b8aabc65b1095e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the member to have a look at the transcript at the end of the day and see that the Minister made a very genuine attempt to address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f786962e334426e90f529763085cdee\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: He did not address the question of where his boundary is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fdc6fe59dd943bf9680471fb062138f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: He did address the question. The member has further supplementary questions if he wants to use them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227098bd27add047b4b3628e900260a316\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: What is he saying: that he wants no rural-urban boundary, which will mean uncontrolled sprawl from Pukekohe to Warkworth; and why will he not come clean with Aucklanders and put up or shut up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a90cd534137b4e6e8d7867e0dc1bff64\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s position is very clear. We see the answer to Auckland\u2019s housing challenges as a mix of both greenfield developments and brownfield developments. I am going to be meeting next Monday with the Mayor and Deputy Mayor of Auckland as this Government constructively works to deal with the housing affordability challenges in Auckland, because we, like members opposite, are concerned about housing being more affordable for New Zealand families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7ebc7fcc37e401fb8dafa6f3503f2b5\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: How can he ask the Auckland Council to meet the Government\u2019s demands, when those demands are completely undefined and he has steadfastly refused to tell the people of Auckland where he wants the rural-urban boundary to be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa6c1e7cf66d49e2947732f155ccd6ed\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has made plain that we see having only 2,000 sections currently available in Auckland as not enough. This Government has made plain that in Auckland\u2019s own plans about the number of\u2014[Interruption] I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member asks a question. He immediately sits down and carries on with a barrage when I am sensibly trying to answer the very question the member raises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1ec6075e40749d0973b7e8d11e0d560\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is entitled to finish his answer, and there will be silence from this side of the House while that happens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5112b72b69b403b96f41726c3c3004a\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s position is this: 2,000 current sections are not nearly enough. The Auckland Unitary Plan sets down that the point of both subdivisions being ready and future land to be zoned is less than half what Auckland\u2019s own council\u2019s targets say it should be. So in terms of what the Government is wanting, the Government is wanting the Auckland Council to free up sufficient land to take the pressure off the housing market and to make housing affordable for Aucklanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e8a679e1cd1487ba16e2ca822ef6a03\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I did not take this point of order, because I was scared of being thrown out, but I invite you to reconsider the ruling that you just made\u2014that is, that the Government can interject, but the Opposition cannot. That is exactly what you said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226929410e2dd547b3b96284ee00af8d0e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not my ruling at all. After yesterday in the House, there were calls to my office complaining about the level of noise. There have been interjections, particularly from the back of the House there, throughout the Hon Dr Nick Smith\u2019s attempt to answer that question. The level of noise makes it very difficult for me to hear both the questions on many occasions and certainly the answers. I am asking all members to respect this House so that we can have an intelligent question time where we can listen to the questions and the answers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294cde9103ff843bc9714be6e0ed8afd3\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. If that is what you meant, then that could have been what you should have said. You said members on the left\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2dc8ac4549e426f964cb3ecab82ea2f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member is now relitigating my answer. The noise at that stage was coming from this side of the House. I meant what I said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9480dd3aa8b45399e66087c2a226cd4\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I agree with you that it has become very noisy. I would argue the key problem is that the decision or the ruling of Speaker Smith that a straight question gets a straight answer is no longer being upheld under your new Speakership. That is creating disorder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243ca084ec81d447fa07ffaf23a0f57be\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is now questioning the competence and the bias of the Speaker. That is very serious. I am attempting to elicit sensible answers for members, but on many occasions members are wanting the answer designed to their satisfaction. That is not what question time is. The question must be addressed, but it will not necessarily mean that the question at all times will be answered to the satisfaction of the member asking the questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f73e2e0be82431198d748dd38381161\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I want to agree with what Dr Norman said, but to make it clear that no one\u2014and I do not think Dr Norman did\u2014attributed bias to you. What he indicated what was that there is a different set of rulings, and they are quite different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a87780bf14fc4be3a7380982367d1feb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I accept there are certainly different styles. From the moment you have a different Speaker, you will have a different style. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022363d26037fe346ef8d9180f7093045b2\u0022\u003EWelfare Reforms\u2014Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0134be8ac604424b7704e5c0e4d3a3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0134be8ac604424b7704e5c0e4d3a3c\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: How will the Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill back people off welfare and into work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7e1a8240ddf4448baedd9a9a26a5cf0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7e1a8240ddf4448baedd9a9a26a5cf0\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Our reforms fundamentally change the way welfare is delivered in New Zealand. We are modernising the welfare system, making it an active rather than a passive system, through the investment approach. This legislation simplifies the welfare system, places a greater focus on work, and ensures that expectations and obligations are balanced with incentives and support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bb80c0ee65c4779b3d35686c41f8cdc\u0022\u003EAlfred Ngaro\u003C/span\u003E: Why are these changes to New Zealand\u2019s welfare system needed? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260e5218725d34eb189e6c816e13288f5\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, because people who need support deserve better than what the current system gives them. It writes many off to intergenerational welfare dependence. The lifetime cost of New Zealand\u2019s current beneficiary population is $78 billion. This Government spends more than $7 billion on benefits a year. That is more than $20 million each day. But we say we are going to spend more on support, more on the wraparounds that are needed for these people, and more focus on helping them get ready for work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaf72416cd70490c8329adc9b4113728\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: What will the Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill do specifically for the young university graduate who is on the unemployment benefit despite having applied for 70 jobs since last year, other than change the name of the benefit she receives? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e05a06ae45cc4c6895855b32586968cb\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: What would happen with that university graduate is that they would go through quite a different system when they go into Work and Income. Work and Income would look at their strengths and their weaknesses, and what they need in assistance to get jobs. More might be spent on actually getting them into the right training organisation so that they can get work-ready. It could look like a very different system for that university graduate. I could give you a hundred examples right now of people who have found work in the last week, showing that the system has worked very well for them, instead of the one little example that that member seems to like to come up with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a10ef54815c4471ab610f7248c6878f2\u0022\u003EAlfred Ngaro\u003C/span\u003E: How do these changes ensure a fairer welfare system, balancing obligations and incentives? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe7f56d23cea40538bc1e1077f23cd74\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: We are requiring job seekers to be drug-free, ready, and work available, we are stopping benefits for those on the run from the police who have an outstanding warrant for arrest, and we have introduced new social obligations to ensure that the health and education needs of children of beneficiaries are met, so that they get the best possible start in life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f4fb6c0f2c7471697e9bf265865e53d\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Should a sole parent be able to study to become a nurse or a social worker while on the DPB or in her new categories of sole parent support or job seeker; if not, why not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d864db9397304100b3867c537ace9f2b\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It will depend on how that fits with their work-test obligations, so that will depend on the age of the youngest child. If they are aged under 5 years old, there will be absolutely no trouble in the parent studying full time. If they are aged 5 or over, there may be some part-time work obligations alongside of them, and the parent can still study if they are doing those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5f43df7cac545b6a71158f804e54a04\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: No, they can\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022582cbc88a88c45fd8432b025d16a208c\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they can. They can perfectly well study and work 15 hours a week. In fact, most of us did, over this side. I know that the member would not be able to associate with that, but that is actually true. Parents can study part-time or full-time and also meet their part-time work-test obligations, which I think are entirely fair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b3d7b85b75b4d96b58106e8598fb889\u0022\u003EDotcom Case\u2014Role of Government Agencies in Operation Debut and Briefings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5897e4a04d6405f967dcac65d947219\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5897e4a04d6405f967dcac65d947219\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements on the actions and involvement of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet and the Government Communications and Security Bureau in Operation Debut?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00224c608705b6674d3caab901bcb4a7f11c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c608705b6674d3caab901bcb4a7f11c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d3cecccbe1341fca4fd40ebd39e4c47\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement that he was not briefed by the Government Communications Security Bureau about its role in Operation Debut either in his meeting on 22 December 2011 or in any subsequent meetings before September 2012?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292a388bd28e9405fa46c8287f3a6e5b9\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, with the exception of the day that I went over on the 27th, when the pin-size piece of iconic thing was put up on the thing, but I was not told at that time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e32ad644cb4429985e1ad5b1402e9e4\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that Roy Ferguson from his own Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet was present at the debriefing on Operation Debut that was held on 16 February 2012? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d47a949d99c4bba96fbefd94c8f19b0\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot absolutely confirm that. It is most probably correct. I can confirm that the advice I have had from the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet is that it neither advised nor discussed with me the Government Communications Security Bureau\u2019s involvement in the Kim Dotcom case prior to 17 September 2012. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a5490b8f9d54dc3aba65e42f3f0e923\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Prime Minister expect anybody to believe that the subject of Dotcom was not raised, referred to, or covered with him as Prime Minister and Minister responsible for the GCSB at a meeting he had with the Government Communications Security Bureau on 24 February, a meeting that took place 48 hours after the agency realised its mistake? Why would we believe that now? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221caff5d2027b4005a8a5ce33f36b0bfc\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Because it happens to be true and, to quote the member, \u201CI deal in the facts, and only the facts.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218ada91b9e8242fd80125e9b8244e554\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that Ian Fletcher, the director of the Government Communications Security Bureau, was present at the debriefing on Operation Debut that was held on 16 February 2012?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208b1aac157ed4768aacca4034b4db9a3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have advice on that matter. It may or may not be correct. You could put that down to his office and they will tell you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1ca120691ae44e9a9d4042079d48a25\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table an email from the Government Communications Security Bureau to the Organised and Financial Crime Agency of New Zealand dated 15 February 2012, which lists the attendees from the bureau at the debrief, beginning with the director, Ian Fletcher.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225725af489b594c72abe6f2123dd3e8cc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that email. Is there\u2014[Interruption] Members are asking the source of that email.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022deeafddde5db42fe885d141c18ce691c\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: It is a court document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d8dc58068d44d15862392ecda1d6d96\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is before the court. I think that is very dangerous to table it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a5e9c37db344aa3ae25282b09cad2c0\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: No, it has been released.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a511ce5fe0a14d8bbd0cdb06ecfde8ea\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It has been released? Then I will put the leave. It is for the House to determine. There is objection. [Interruption] Any member has the right to object.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228437c9cf049349cb851a8d97a3e9a9a8\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I want to clarify that the document I was trying to table was released to me by the court last week, so it is not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fa5033da39a461097d8b3d8419f7178\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think that was understood when I put leave, and on that basis it was still denied by members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268247c20ac6945a08b52bc241310c47f\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think it is a little unreasonable to leave the House or those who are watching the House under the impression that this document just had leave for its release declined on any old basis. The reality is it is a court document and it is not appropriate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5a5f24978dd4967b755f942376b5375\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Any member has a right\u2014[Interruption] Order! I do not need assistance on this. Leave was put by me. Any member has a right to object. They do not have to give a reason. Objection was taken; it will not be tabled. [Interruption] That sort of remark is not helpful to the order of the House. [Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022536eb462c83e4c61a7f4ef5051711c4c\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware of this slide from the PowerPoint presentation given at the debriefing on 16 February 2012, which shows that the issue of the residency status of Mr Dotcom was discussed at that meeting?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ea5a0d9c94f49679219a62b843ac782\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have not seen that particular document, but it is really important to understand that there is nothing new in what is going through here. There is absolutely nothing new here. When this matter was discussed last year I made it quite clear that there was a meeting that was held in the middle part of February where the issue of residency status for Kim Dotcom was discussed. It went off to the legal adviser at the Government Communications Security Bureau, who confirmed things were right. In fact, as I have publicly said, the advice from the legal team at the bureau was wrong. That is all in the public domain, and has been now for well over 6 months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee721dab69be42caa27bc5b67b773e99\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table this slide, freely released to me by the court, from a PowerPoint presentation given at the debrief on Operation Debut, which indicates that the residency issue for Mr Dotcom was discussed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212129c0f0c74431789ba3d47ffd40d01\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I put that, does anybody want further information? Leave is sought for that. That is an objection. It will not be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b9980432dca415898f03f1a330cbb02\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. In seeking leave to table documents members have been asked to explain the source of the documents\u2014in other words, who generated the document, the date of the document, and a brief description of the document. Members have never been asked in the House before to identify how they came to get the document, which is what the new precedent that seems to be happening\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221e376e2fc694379a54de9f883f29945\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I sought whether any further information was required. It was clearly going to be denied\u2014it was denied. That is the privilege of any member of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c53335aa215e4723aae7910a57d791cc\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware of the affidavit of Detective Inspector Grant Wormald that he spoke immediately after the 16 February meeting to a Government Communications Security Bureau staff member who raised the issue that the interception of Kim Dotcom \u201Cmay not have been lawful because of their residency status.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a71d8760565b4f46b8102293813e22d1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and it is the same answer as the answer that I gave to the question before this, which was that on that date there was a discussion about the residency status of Kim Dotcom. What happened was that the Government Communications Security Bureau went off to its senior legal adviser, Hugh Wolfensohn, and asked for advice about whether the operation was legal. The advice that was given\u2014the best of the legal advice presented by Hugh Wolfensohn\u2014was that it was legal. That was the position that everyone believed to be the case until early September 2012. As we now know, the bureau and Mr Wolfensohn were wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200116bac8fc34955b0d81cfb66ef3129\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, how does the Prime Minister explain the affidavit that was put to the court on 17 September 2012 that indicates that the Government Communications Security Bureau was aware on 22 February that the surveillance was unlawful?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5787cfb8c3d4f22ab143bf905f932af\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: An affidavit is what somebody believes. I am not sure which particular affidavit the member is talking about, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274d9db6e8b9042e6ab3ade54255ea91f\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: If you let me table it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a22c75f4fe2d427e8ad68956c18d3b11\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they are court documents and this is a matter before the courts, but I go back to the same point. No one at any time in the last 6 months, to the best of my knowledge, has argued that point\u2014that in the middle of February there was a discussion between, I think, the Organised and Financial Crime Agency of New Zealand and the Government Communications Security Bureau about the legality of the work that was undertaken by the bureau. It went\u2014well, the member shakes his head, but it is a statement of fact\u2014it went off to the legal adviser at the bureau, who provided advice to it that it was legal. It later on proved to be wrong. That is what we have been saying now for 6 months\u2014the Government Communications Security Bureau got it wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272f68bccf63240208f4d418269555ca9\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table an affidavit from a Government Communications Security Bureau staff member given on 17 September 2012 that indicates that this person learnt on 22 February that Mr Dotcom and his family were persons holding residence-class visas and that this meant\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284be977433504c2d860ca78c7364dfbd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that affidavit. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7c8cff1976243648085e012af2a9e66\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: How does he explain that he was not briefed about the role of the Government Communications Security Bureau in the Dotcom raids when the director of the bureau, two deputy directors, an assistant director, a unit manager from the bureau, a member of his own department, and senior members of the police were all present at a discussion about the fact that the surveillance of Mr Dotcom may well have been unlawful? How come he was not briefed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d8a6c70c8c44a35b2492df44a119341\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Quite simply. I am not advised on any of the operational matters that the Government Communications Security Bureau is undertaking. In fact, that is not the standard practice, and it was never the standard practice for the previous Prime Minister, either. If the member\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022699406700ee8408a87c1f9089123f983\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I want to hear the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225850a909b9a042b691dde8a2c4c0efac\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: If the member wanted to make the case that I was going to be briefed as the Minister\u2014which is actually the Minister responsible for the direction and the priorities of the agencies\u2014that I was actually being briefed on every operation that was being undertaken, then the member is wanting New Zealanders to believe that I direct those operations in the same way that they would want the Minister of Police to believe that they were directing those operations. By the way, as all the facts will show in the history of time, there is absolutely nothing different in my approach to the same approach that was taken by Helen Clark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a69cf0c1c5094d1f81dae2c3f41092a6\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Why should New Zealanders not believe that this was, in fact, a cover-up when the Director of the Government Communications Security Bureau, two deputy directors, an assistant director, a unit manager from the bureau, and someone from his own department did not report to him that there was unlawful surveillance that had taken place, which they knew on 22 February?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022702cb9e77dd24c1db402abe0504039f1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, one good starting point would be the Inspector-General, who actually\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fccd57930b5c4b5cacf8ec20ade3b50e\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: He became involved in September.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1e864901e9b4b27aa15da0cb8ed3061\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, but he reviewed the file and came back and said: \u201CThis is how the error was undertaken.\u201D I mean, the member can spin it any way he likes, but the reality of the situation is that a raid was undertaken, the Government Communications Security Bureau was involved, it believed it to be legally correct, later on it was questioned whether it was, it went\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224138cac51c764e06befe7bbf7463e0c1\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: They never even checked the residency status.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2674402c53c4451be108975dea8a478\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the point there is that the bureau ultimately went and checked with its legal adviser in February. The legal adviser went back and said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b149e6c37ce4c55aec6bd16d800dc02\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: After it was over\u2014great!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de5d5dad4d8a4b5e88a9f2aa1c2989f6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, look, the member can go on and on and on, because he does not want to hear the facts. But if you want to hear the facts, we will run through it. It undertook a raid. Basically, it questioned whether it was right. It went and got legal advice. Its legal advice said: \u201CYou are totally entitled to do what you are doing.\u201D, and it was wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220ff4eb735b24454a9283af01c6053017\u0022\u003EFlu Vaccine\u2014Free Access\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022585a40d3a0334a9085111663068a4957\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022585a40d3a0334a9085111663068a4957\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What is the Government doing to extend access to free flu vaccines?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2463490b6b44bbb94b65d84b5bcec72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2463490b6b44bbb94b65d84b5bcec72\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Associate Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Health: Around 400 New Zealanders die directly or indirectly each year from influenza. Last year the disease put more than 1,000 people in hospital, and nearly 50,000 people visited their general practitioner with influenza-like illnesses. The Government is announcing today that children under 5 who have been hospitalised for respiratory illness or who have a history of significant respiratory illness will be able to receive a funded influenza vaccination this year, following a recent Pharmac decision. That means that from 1 April the parents of these children will have the option of vaccinating their under-fives who have conditions like asthma, which previously did not meet the funding criteria. That will better protect them from influenza.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022798f28b49a2840269b258eb0f5cf7abc\u0022\u003EScott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: What result would the Government like to see from the influenza vaccination campaign this year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229910e9980c18464b8d1aad8e26b2ea56\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: Last year around 23 percent of New Zealanders\u2014that was around half a million\u2014had a flu vaccination. The goal this year is to vaccinate more than double that number\u20141.2 million people. The flu vaccination is available free to those who have the greatest risk of serious influenza complications, including New Zealanders over the age of 65, pregnant women, and people with ongoing health conditions such as asthma or heart conditions. It is available from all general practitioner clinics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002259dbb490a86c43aca8105ce30352c088\u0022\u003EWelfare Reforms\u2014Sanctions and Impact on Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u002201871be35bb34a718f2579812cd7dcf6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201871be35bb34a718f2579812cd7dcf6\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: Does she have an obligation, as Social Development Minister, to ensure all policy she is responsible for will be good for children and their families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u002270f18216ef9e46aab113dcd257a09aa4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270f18216ef9e46aab113dcd257a09aa4\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Of course. That is why we have already introduced a number of policies that are in the interests of children, and, of course, we have a number coming up. Our welfare reforms are ensuring they are in early childhood education, are visiting their general practitioner, and being Well Child / T\u0101mariki Ora checked. There is also the Children\u2019s Action Plan, which is tackling the root issues of abuse and neglect and is getting in before they have to go under Child, Youth and Family. We are also changing how we contract with NGOs to give those services on the ground bigger flexibility about how they work with us. Those are just a few of what I could mention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022874314825d554b398b2f99bda00d7dac\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister then ignore the strong and persistent warnings from the Ministry of Health that her welfare reform sanctions for Well Child / T\u0101mariki Ora checks would cause \u201Csubstantial negative impacts on families and to vulnerable children, including risks of increased maltreatment and neglect.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d83aed3fd4d4fb0b3cb1248727f80d5\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It would be fair to say that there is a range of advice that has come on as to whether or not sanctions within the benefit system are actually what is best for children. Certainly, what I have seen is that sanctions actually work and the advice I have got says exactly that. I could take you to the New Zealand Herald editorial of 13 September 2012, which I think wraps it up quite well. It said: \u201CIt would make the child suffer for the parent\u2019s failing\u2014but then the child is probably suffering anyway. A benefit cut would be preceded by three reminders to comply. Defiance to that degree would signal something seriously amiss.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213c04d4446cb43dba6c6e540f89542f7\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a response to an Official Information Act request that I have made from a Ministry of Health brief comment seeking changes to the regulatory impact statement for the welfare reforms dated 25 July 2012, indicating substantial negative impacts on families from the sanctions and concerns about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a271c07db1f43b68b18f204b04c86c8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224072ef7fdda84b50981b642e570a0112\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Did the health Minister, Tony Ryall, ask her to find less damaging alternatives to the financial sanctions regime for Well Child / T\u0101mariki Ora checks after he was urged to intervene by his Ministry of Health officials, who warned: \u201CWe anticipate that the sanctions would have a negative impact on the health of sanctioned beneficiaries and their families. We also expect that those sanctioned will be more likely to defer health care and present at emergency departments.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271f3c64ce56e48cb91e571867aac2d07\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is the member\u2019s own emphasis to say \u201Cless damaging\u201D. We on this side obviously think it is incredibly damaging not to have your child enrolled for Well Child / T\u0101mariki Ora checks, with a GP, and with a primary health organisation. It is actually incredibly damaging not to have them immunised, and attending health care and being looked after when they actually need it. We see that as actually being worse for the child than what we are doing in saying please put your child first and get these things done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb381d7f22a547febb7e055d42d0053f\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question specifically asked whether the health Minister made a request to her based on information he had received from his own officials. She did not address that question at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208e1df62d5d848bb80c2194818566fee\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the member to put that question again, but that was a very long question, which was part of the problem. If you make the question more concise, it is easier for me to ensure you get the question addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e35f02f8bbc64f3884ae522a1e92cf88\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Did the health Minister, Tony Ryall, ask her to find less damaging alternatives to the financial sanctions regime for Well Child / T\u0101mariki Ora checks after he was urged to intervene by his own Ministry of Health officials?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ce7c03cecb74e569cd45373636cce1c\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: A range of Ministers, including the Minister of Health\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290a0f9570a264f1588259218ba7467f2\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: She asked about Tony Ryall.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b508475fdb842379dfdbb3033c45b34\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014have been actually active in developing this policy around sanctions, and did bring to our attention other officials and their opinions. However, it is the belief of this side of the House that these reforms actually put the interests of children first. Actually, it is best for them if they have Well Child / T\u0101mariki Ora checks, if they are actually enrolled with a GP or a primary health organisation, and if they are getting access to the kind of health care that they deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0a3f8dd66c54a5fba775784281e0a78\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: For the benefit of the Hon Annette King, I invite her to have a look at the transcript. The Minister said a number of Ministers including Mr Ryall spoke to her, so the question was addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209e3bb905da04b80b635df5c02e3f53c\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document, a response to an Official Information Act request, dated 25 May 2012 from the Ministry of Health, which is a report to the Hon Tony Ryall seeking that he ask the welfare reform Ministers to further investigate alternatives to the significant financial sanctions for non-compliance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221119322adda04fb499ac280660e325cb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is none. It may be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ce7080737de4d8990a974f3227733c5\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister stand here with a straight face and tell the House that these reforms will be better for children, when the advice from the Ministry of Health says that there is no strong evidence that health-related social obligations are needed, expresses concern that there are risks to the Well Child / T\u0101mariki Ora checks if the checks are seen as a punishment or a sanction, and says that the best way to reach the families not receiving Well Child / T\u0101mariki Ora checks is by improving delivery, not imposing financial sanctions, which will lead to further harm to the child?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f53c35a46d454e2993053f2037e88be1\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b58b7c97859b4c4aa341d06cfaf2ba7d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hon Paula Bennett\u2014any part of that question the Minister wishes to answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e44395accb34a14972920eaae4ded54\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I think that it is fair and reasonable to expect that these children are being put first. What we have done is that people are given at least three chances to comply. To be sanctioned by 50 percent\u2014and the maximum they can be sanctioned is by only 50 percent\u2014they then have to have not complied three times. They then get ample opportunities to actually then comply and get that benefit put straight back on. Actually, to date, for those who have had a work-test sanction on clients with children, there have been only 35 who have had a sanction longer than 8 weeks. One has to ask themselves, after all the contact that Work and Income have with them, why they have not re-complied within that 8 week period. I think that is entirely reasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225327d853406d439a8d4836f7e9eb2a57\u0022\u003EDrought Conditions\u2014Government Response\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022c01bda925e5142719e8887538ee58827\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c01bda925e5142719e8887538ee58827\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (National\u2014Waimakariri)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Primary Industries: What announcement has he made on the drought in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4ecc854dcd648b88ccad20533a8059c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4ecc854dcd648b88ccad20533a8059c\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Minister for Primary Industries):\u003C/span\u003E Last Friday I announced that a state of drought has been officially declared throughout the entire North Island. This announcement means that extra funding will be available to rural support trusts that work closely with farmers, providing support and guidance. Of course, rural assistance payments are also available from Work and Income in cases of extreme hardship, and the Inland Revenue Department can provide flexibility in the timing of tax repayments. I acknowledge that this has been a particularly tough time for farmers, and would like to assure them that this Government backs them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222072087700ba44ecb894413404236f08\u0022\u003EHon Kate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: What has the recent rain meant for drought areas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221496b94458ac4f81811e642dc95ec52f\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: The rain over the last few days has been a very welcome relief. It has psychologically lifted spirits. It has also meant that some green grass shoots have reappeared. Although we have received substantial rain here in Wellington, it is not widespread as many people think. I am continuing to closely monitor right across New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237ef5ac3b4054f9888abbcfda063d1ef\u0022\u003EHon Kate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: What initiatives is the Government undertaking to reduce the impact of droughts in the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022605323fe753f43edbce504a707ad16d5\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: The last few months have shown that action is needed to take account of managing our water in a more productive manner. New Zealand does not have a water-supply problem. We have a water-storage problem. That is why the Government is investing up to $400 million on irrigation projects. We will establish a Crown company to oversee Crown investments in these schemes. I encourage all political parties to support this important infrastructure investment. It is good for productivity and good for the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c539fe87be734d3b94d5572a8a983fde\u0022\u003ECanterbury, Recovery\u2014Investigation of Fraud Allegations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b149a17c60964c1191660cb85ccddf67\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b149a17c60964c1191660cb85ccddf67\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery: Have allegations of fraud and corruption involving Canterbury earthquake recovery and rebuild contracts been raised with him as Minister; if so, what specific steps has he taken to address them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1d95a29dae7489c9b433a8012c7fd68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1d95a29dae7489c9b433a8012c7fd68\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, there have been allegations sent to my office, and these have been directed to relevant agencies for investigation. Research shows that there are considerable risks of fraud and corruption in post-disaster recovery, and this is why the interagency fraud group, which includes the police and the Serious Fraud Office, has been proactively monitoring the rebuild. This is in addition to processes put in place by the Earthquake Commission and the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority to investigate allegations. The Office of the Auditor-General is also closely monitoring the major expenditure in Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a40eda20a3624cebbd373eb6b09d7ca6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How long did it take the Minister to find out that work had been scoped and invoiced for but not done? I will give you four examples. Ten piles were to be done. One pile was done and the others were not\u2014nine were not\u2014but they were all invoiced for. A removed, disposed, re-gibbed ceiling was not done but was invoiced for, which is common at the moment. Work to remove, dispose of, and replace lining, paper, and paint was not done but was invoiced for. Scaffolding was claimed to be used but was never ever on the property when the repair was done. How long did it take him to find out that this was going on, and what is the level of the fraud?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c71801cba0734153a4216a7876e707ea\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: The project management office, which I assume was involved with the jobs that the Minister has spoken of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c13a79b4f11b486b8f1f6a514b372e0f\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: The member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d6ea08de0dc44ea8975d751adbb68ed\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the member has spoken of, sorry\u2014has been aware right from the outset that there was potential for bad behaviour, and has therefore investigated these sorts of allegations. If the member wants to give me the details of those allegations, I am very happy to see them prosecuted further. Although the member can sit there and say that I am the Minister, there have actually been nearly 35,000 of these jobs completed. I am sorry, but I do not have the details of every one of them. If he has got information that someone is ripping off the taxpayer, put it on the table so we can sort it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae795f93b521425a8c8832407aa874e7\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is the total cost of fraud and corruption detected in the Canterbury earthquake recovery and rebuild estimated to be between $130 million and $240 million, and, given countless warnings that this would happen, why did he allow it to happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a240390384a4118bee502867daa9963\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know where that figure came from. We do not want any fraud. That is why we have a proactive group of interagency authorities making sure that we do not get this sort of thing happening, and why, if anybody is caught fraudulently invoicing the Earthquake Commission or the Fletcher EQR office, they will get dealt to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5c6901f9fb34f01b86dedc086d64664\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: If Fletcher Construction was overall project manager for most of the 33,398 houses that have been completed to date, and if it has charged for the scope of works for each house and invoiced that work, then what is the level of Fletcher\u2019s involvement in this corruption and fraud?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5962e0c14684442a1d490d87f80eeef\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: This has got all the hallmarks of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2a7b96401af4beeb12e0e583f748268\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. When the majority of contracts are scoped and an invoice is signed off by Fletcher\u2019s, I am asking him what its level of involvement is. He started to say that it had got all the hallmarks of something. I want to know what the answer is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221855868ddb5f4697becc8ed383ec6204\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the important point is that he had just started. If the member would allow the Minister to answer the question, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022455856e4830f4e62a0d4a8da314b2e49\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: The member is putting his question on the basis that he has information that, frankly, I do not have. So if he would like to give it to me, we will take it apart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235b339e400c741b3ba6d6d490b5461b3\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This Minister has had over 3 hours to get the answer ready. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251fbe1494b0b481cb99b625a52646417\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Would the member raise his point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b4b7c3c0f544451b4e1291945ff0298\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I am getting to the point of order, but I am trying to justify why the point of order is a reasonable one\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a96509bb7c3443dc8dfc8f6dc1ac6908\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just get to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220eaf38affb04079a64bdb5bc8ecab1d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that you should seriously consider. He is the Minister. He has had 3 hours to get this ready. He has got a whole lot of staff\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236ab070e59ef43e49af824d77e448934\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What is the point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed88f606da68435484638f8d0d6e45e0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: My point of order is that it ill behoves you to allow him to ask me for the evidence when he is paid to do that, and he has got hundreds of public servants to do that as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4b5aadf2b3e4c1ea1a654a7f9c615cf\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: The question says: \u201CHave allegations of fraud and corruption involving Canterbury earthquake recovery and rebuild contracts been raised with him as Minister; if so, what specific steps has he taken to address them?\u201D. I am happy to table the answer\u2014if he would not understand it if I read it\u2014but I said yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022525b3fa769fa40a7b781e8988ab67a9d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister gets up, reads out the primary question, which was not the question he was asked to address and which I have raised my point of order on, and you find that acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b92335413bc4c06aa44696be38a9b81\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! This is enough time wasted on this. The member asked the question. The Minister addressed the supplementary question satisfactorily.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022839184d7f9d44fc0b8167fa4a1bb96c1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202c14cbf716b4fb4810f3f5ee91aa64d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is it a fresh point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022339f429a1bf8454c83445c79489c5f6b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: It is a fresh point of order. Are you saying that the Minister\u2019s answer to my question was the same question I put in the primary question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b58762582804e91ba2b8fa17dfe4596\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not. I am saying that the Minister adequately addressed the supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002263e0e412a8bd4254bee897a40d7c0b0a\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022069bd3898390443db631532d9b8178d8\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u00222b87eb723fec420280af073a7481db9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b87eb723fec420280af073a7481db9e\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. Paula Bennett will put children at risk of worsening illness\u2014as she leaves the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f342a9b510cf479aaa1de2675ed73bdb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! It is not appropriate to refer to any member leaving the House. Would those who are choosing to the leave the House please do so quietly, as the member has every right to have her contribution heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a4ebba9091a4fddaaf0a3fce65bebb4\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: Paula Bennett will put children at risk of worsening illness, inadequate health care, and even maltreatment, as she and her Government continue to pass the welfare reforms, and they do not care. How do they know about these risks? Because the Ministry of Health told them over and over and over again. The ministry provided briefings on changes to the text, advice to the Minister, and pleas to the Minister that these reforms\u2014the Well Child compulsion, the severe financial sanctions\u2014would cause beneficiaries and their children harm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EI want to go through some of that advice so that people out there can understand just how seriously the Ministry of Health took these welfare reforms in its concern for child health. In May 2012: \u201CThe Ministry of Health expects that income sanctions will have a negative impact on the health of sanctioned beneficiaries and their families. We predict that these people will defer health care. We predict that these people will increasingly present at emergency departments, rather than primary care.\u201D It said that \u201CThe cost to the health system will increase accordingly.\u201D Again in May, in tracked changes to a Ministry of Social Development Cabinet paper, it said: \u201CThere are risks to the Well Child programme if the checks are seen as a punishment or a sanction. One of the valuable traits of Well Child has been that it is non-threatening and has a high degree of public and family acceptability.\u201D Further emails have passed between the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Social Development over this. Over and over the ministry tells the Minister of Health and the Ministry of Social Development that the sanctions will harm families. It even had to ask the Ministry of Social Development to rewrite parts of its report. The Ministry of Health says: \u201CPlease replace the phrase \u2018MOH notes\u2019 with the phrase \u2018The Ministry of Health has a strong preference that engagement on the Well Child programme does not become mandatory.\u2019 \u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe ministry officials appealed to the Minister of Health, Tony Ryall, asking him to please put this information to the welfare reform Minister. They said: \u201CThe ministry is concerned about such heavy financial sanctions being applied. We anticipate these sanctions would have a negative impact on the health of sanctioned beneficiaries and their families. We expect that those sanctioned will be more likely to defer health care, and present at emergency departments. We can do better to reach families not receiving Well Child checks by improving programme delivery.\u201D It is over and over. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EJust as one example of the Draconian intention by the Ministry of Social Development, in July the Ministry of Health asked the Ministry of Social Development to do this: \u201CPlease remove the word \u2018surveillance\u2019. The Well Child programme is not designed or intended as a mechanism for surveillance of beneficiary families or indeed any families. It is a health promotion child development programme that works on the basis of partnership and engagement between the practitioner and the parent and the child. Don\u2019t use it to investigate families.\u201D Despite the false claims by Paula Bennett that this compulsion is necessary for poorer families, the ministry says that there is no strong evidence that health-related social obligations are needed. Then, after months of persistent health advocacy for children, the Ministry of Health asked that the regulatory impact statement attached to the bill note some key warnings: that the Well Child programme itself could be threatened if it becomes mandatory, that sanctioned parents can face significant barriers to compliance, and, finally, that there will be some substantial negative impacts on families who ultimately face financial sanctions, not least because it is noted in the regulatory impact statement that child maltreatment and neglect is particularly sensitive to parental income, where lack of resources limits their ability to meet children\u2019s basic needs. Over and over and over the Ministry of Health told the Minister of Health, the Minister for Social Development, and the Ministry of Social Development that these financial sanctions for the Well Child checks, the welfare reforms, would cause children harm. It has solutions to increase the number of children who are registered with the Well Child system. It has ways of delivering a decent and better programme to those families. Paula Bennett knows that children will be harmed by her welfare reforms, and she will do it anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00227194503f7dd84c26a0f12ce9ba958d42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227194503f7dd84c26a0f12ce9ba958d42\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E Hands up all the members of this House who have realised in the last 48 hours that they are in possession of a foreign bank account with $100,000 in it\u2014in fact, they had forgotten about it, and they have just suddenly remembered they had it stashed away. David Shearer is the only member of the House who could put his hand up. The offence here is not that he has a foreign bank account, and not that he has $100,000 or more in that bank account, but that he flagrantly disregarded the Standing Orders of this House, and disrespected this House for 4 years, by not declaring it on his pecuniary interest register. The question has to be why, because the \u201Cforgot\u201D answer does not wash. It is astonishing that the leader of a political party that pillories people for their wealth, and pillories people for their memory lapses, is able to say he just forgot, at the same time that he is telling John Banks he should exit Parliament for receiving a $500 gift basket. That is typical of the double standard that we have come to know from the Labour Party, and that is now sanctioned, it would seem, by the leader himself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWhat would you be more likely to do: remember that you had $100,000 in a foreign bank account or remember a small picture on the corner of a laptop screen at the start of a briefing? Because what David Shearer has said is that the Prime Minister should have\u2014in fact, he called him a liar when he said he could not remember that small picture. Well, what we are seeing here today, and have seen over the last couple of days actually, is the extreme deception of David Shearer in not declaring that particular asset. Although his party members over there might like to sit there, shaking their heads, sort of smiling, I do not think they have understood how offensive it will be to New Zealanders that someone is trying to hide a foreign asset. That is completely wrong and somewhat inexplicable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo, as I said earlier, it does not matter that he has a foreign bank account. It does not matter that he has a large sum of money in it. But it does matter that he forgot about it. It does matter that he decided, year after year after year, not to tell the Parliament that he had it. For someone to take the wrong turn on the motorway once is forgetful; to do it four times is plain stupid. That is the class that Mr Shearer has now put himself into. It is interesting, though, that he has this, I guess you would say, habit of being forgetful. He forgot who the painter was on the roof who had a benefit, who he said should have been off the roof and doing something else. He forgot about that. He forgot about the video that he told everyone existed, but did not exist. So this forgetfulness has been a sort of hallmark of him, but I do not think it is a forgivable thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt is also interesting to note that when Mr Shearer, who sets such high standards, received the Auditor-General\u2019s report on the\u2014what is it called here\u2014Inquiry into decision by Hon Shane Jones to grant citizenship to Mr Yang Liu, he actually, by the time he got to the end of it, decided there was nothing in here to worry about and that he would go out to the public and say that it all showed nothing. I think he forgot the most important part of that report, right at the start, where the Auditor-General says that they were not able to investigate any of the accusations or allegations made against Mr Liu, and, therefore, they were not able to investigate all of those suggestions that there was something untoward in the way in which this particular case was dealt with, and that they could not look into why it was that just 4 hours after receiving an Official Information Act request, Mr Jones had the officials in his office, the information on the table, and the information in the hands of Mr Liu the following day. A short time after that, Mr Jones made a decision that despite the advice from his officials, he was going to grant the citizenship, and then a day later Mr Liu is dragged into Parliament\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00229ba2809bcdd4451ca4f99d7a54613666\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ba2809bcdd4451ca4f99d7a54613666\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00228cd22d5170c146c490ca241c8c8349c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cd22d5170c146c490ca241c8c8349c1\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E There are two words for the member who has just resumed his seat, or it may actually be one word: Tranz Rail\u2014Tranz Rail shares. If that member, Gerry Brownlee, wants to get up and talk about forgetfulness, about overseas transactions\u2014this side of the House knows very well the record of his leader on that. The record of his leader on brain fades when it comes to issues like Kim Dotcom\u2014when he was briefed, what he knew\u2014exceeds anyone else in this House for forgetfulness. I am going to miss Mr Brownlee from our Friday evening chats, which he has pulled out of because, apparently, I was all over him and he could not get a word in edgeways. Well, sorry about that, Gerry\u2014bad luck! We will see you back any time you like on the radio on Friday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228daa57959e9c4462bc6a738bcb6f4892\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. No one is going to call me a coward for getting away from Grant Robertson being all over me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d52e377c9d434e40b96349d2a9f31e33\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is not a point of order. That is a debatable matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b3ca90f33c64f53be1107316fd38c15\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: In your dreams, Gerry! In your dreams! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders rightly expect a standard of transparency, accountability, and fairness from their Government. They think that when somebody gets into Government, they will take seriously their responsibilities as a Minister. What we have seen in the debacle over the Government Communications Security Bureau\u2019s involvement in Operation Debut, the Kim Dotcom case, is a complete lack of oversight from the Minister responsible for the GCSB, John Key. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe are asked to believe that an operation that has been described by the police as an unprecedented role for the bureau was not even reported to the Prime Minister. That is what we are being asked to believe. We are being asked to believe that when spying went on at the behest of the FBI the Prime Minister did not know. We are being asked to believe that our spy agencies, having worked out on 22 February that they were spying unlawfully, did not tell their Minister, the Minister in charge. That is what we are being asked to believe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut the bottom line is that, whichever way we look at it, at best John Key\u2019s oversight of this agency has been loose and lax, and at worst he is part of a cover-up, because what we see in the papers that have been released by the court is a pattern of behaviour that sought to minimise the actions that were being undertaken. There is not much that is more serious in our country than the power to spy on people. That is why the Government Communications Security Bureau Act says that New Zealanders and New Zealand residents, in particular, are not allowed to be spied upon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Government Communications Security Bureau went into this surveillance operation without even sorting out the residency status of the person who was under surveillance. That is incredibly sloppy. It is not the kind of thing that New Zealanders would expect. Twice during the process\u2014once in mid-December 2011 and once in early January 2012, when the surveillance was still under way\u2014the police became aware that Mr Dotcom was a resident and, therefore, should not have been under surveillance. That is bad enough, but then, on 16 February, a meeting was held where Ian Fletcher, the director of the bureau, somebody who reports directly to the Prime Minister, was present at a briefing where Kim Dotcom\u2019s residency status was discussed and immediately after which it was realised that the spying had been unlawful. That is, Mr Key\u2019s chief spy was there in the room, a person whom Mr Key may well know very well in other ways as well, and he did not report this to Mr Key. That is what we are asked to believe. If it is true, it is a kind of oversight that New Zealanders would be ashamed of. We expect our Prime Minister to actually act on behalf of New Zealanders and play the role that he is meant to play in overseeing the spy agency. He has shown no signs of taking responsibility for his actions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that is more interested in deals with its mates than it is in governing in the interests of New Zealanders. It is a Government that is so mired in scandals and so focused on its own mates and lining their pockets that it has lost its focus on what it is meant to be doing, which is helping make New Zealanders\u2019 lives better. Well, I can be absolutely clear with you today that help is on its way. The Labour Party sees this Government in decline, and in 2014 New Zealanders will get the Government they deserve\u2014a Government for the people of New Zealand, not the mates of the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb7cfad4c8d34959a6523983e1e59f70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb7cfad4c8d34959a6523983e1e59f70\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E If that was not so sad, it would be funny. I mean, that really was an appalling attempt to pull out the old leaf of the Labour Party playbook, which is that when you are in desperate trouble, when your leader is in a bit of a difficulty, then you reheat an old allegation from months ago, drag it out, and pretend it is new stuff\u2014new stuff from Mr Robertson, but only because his leader is in trouble of his own. That is the reality of it, because the Labour Party has got a problem. It is a shrill, out-of-touch Opposition party, and it has decided that what it needed after getting a trouncing in the 2011 election was a fresh public face to speed it back into office in 2014. It wanted a short cut. It did not want to change any of its policies. In fact, it did not want to change any of its long-standing members. What it wanted was a short cut back to the Treasury benches, so Labour members cast around the caucus. They found a guy. He could not actually string several words together, but they found him, and they said: \u201CHe can be the modern face of the party. Send him out there.\u201D They got him to talk about the fact that he was not a politician, that he was an anti-politician, and that he would not play gotcha politics and would actually just talk about what New Zealanders wanted. And it did not work. He did not say anything. He did not do anything. He was a rabbit that they could not get to run. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003ESo very quickly the old Labour Party reasserted itself and started getting him to say some things that were palpably going to be contradicted, and this one is the one that has caught him this week. On Thursday, 26 July last year, he said in regards to John Banks that because he had forgotten something: \u201COn the basis of his memory lapse alone, John Banks is not fit to serve as a Minister.\u201D That is the standard that this Mr Shearer set. Then, of course, we have the issue of the last few days, when quite palpably he cannot meet that standard himself, because he has had to go out there and correct his pecuniary register. There is no problem with that. Members do make mistakes with their pecuniary register and they have to go and fix it, but this member has made the mistake 4 years in a row. For 4 years in a row he has not actually got around to doing it, and, weirdly, he was able to tell the Inland Revenue Department he had this offshore bank account for each of those 4 years, as he filed his tax return. So he did not remember it for his pecuniary register, but he remembered it for the Inland Revenue Department. And that, I am sorry, is very hard to believe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EBut, OK, maybe he is the sort of person who has a lazy $50k lying around somewhere\u2014maybe he is\u2014but if that is the case then why will he not tell us the amount that is in the account? That would actually help us understand whether he was just forgetful. Maybe it is OK to forget $50k, but is it OK to forget, let us say, over $100k, as he sort of admitted last night on Radio Live? Or is it maybe $200k or $300k? He is saying it is between him and his family. What he is saying is that it is embarrassing and he does not want to talk about it any more. So his problem is he is hoist by his own petard. Nobody is saying it is the world\u2019s worst thing, except he was the guy who turned round last year and said of John Banks that on a memory lapse alone he should not be in Parliament. He also said, by the way, that John Key was in trouble because he had a brain fade. Well, this is the biggest brain fade I have seen in 4 years in this Parliament, because it is not once; it is twice, it is three times, it is four times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EBut that is not so bad, because the other attempt of the Leader of the Opposition has been to play gotcha politics on Office of the Auditor-General reports, and has that not ended badly\u2014has that not ended badly? He has been spending his time harrumphing away about the convention centre report and going on about how it is terrible. Then, weirdly\u2014not the same issues\u2014another report came out that sort of suggests that actually there was a \u201Chear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil\u201D former associate immigration Minister, who did not ask why it was that he disagreed with officials, who did not want to know, and who did not ask the questions. He was sent in to do one citizenship application, which, weirdly, was for a donor of the Labour Party. Then that person miraculously got his citizenship, and the next day was presented with a citizenship ceremony at Parliament. And somehow that is OK\u2014that is just fine\u2014whereas compared with the convention centre that is a million miles off being fine. That is absolute rubbish and it is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea1193189fc14cf7a5544cd47d3d25de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea1193189fc14cf7a5544cd47d3d25de\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6e19b66eb0f4bbd8520a75db404a486\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6e19b66eb0f4bbd8520a75db404a486\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has made the Christchurch rebuild a top priority. It is putting great weight on the rebuild to drive the economy. Indeed, it has little else as an economic strategy to reinvigorate the economy. The fact is that if the rebuild falters, New Zealand falters. We must get the rebuild right, or the cost to the nation will be enormous. So it is time for some scrutiny of the Government\u2019s approach to the rebuild. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EAfter 2 years of policy stagnation, inaction on insurance issues, grossly unfair decisions on red zone property owners, lack of progress on road repairs, poor progress on home repairs and rebuilds, unaddressed health issues arising from silt pools under homes in many parts of the city\u2014and other health issues\u2014the sheer number of complaints about the performance of the Earthquake Commission, and the similar number of complaints about Fletcher\u2019s performance, including allegations of fraud and corruption over the monitoring of home repair contracts, the only fair assessment of the Government\u2019s performance is that it has failed in its duties and has failed to provide the leadership needed. Some serious wrongs are being committed, too. They say that power corrupts, and there is a real sense of hubris attaching to the Minister responsible for the Christchurch rebuild. Minister Brownlee is behaving increasingly like a Soviet-style commissar whose word is above the law. His arbitrary edicts are punishing the innocent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EHolders of vacant sections in the red zone have been robbed\u2014robbed of 50 percent of their land value and robbed of the compensation any other Kiwi would get if the Government effectively took their land. The Government can no longer sustain some of its shoddy policy-making over red zoned land. The use of outdated, inaccurate 2007 rating values was bad enough, but the treatment of owners of vacant sections is utterly unconscionable. In New Zealand it has long been accepted that if the Government compulsorily takes land, then it pays the fair market price for that land. That means the pre-earthquake, pre - red zone value for that land. Most Kiwis accept that it is a matter of simple fairness that the Government would not take advantage of a disaster situation to acquire land at less than its fair value.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EHere is part of an email I received only today from a distressed owner of a red zone vacant section, who is distraught about the coming 31 March deadline: \u201CWith the red zone section owners\u2019 deadline of March 31 fast approaching, and both Brownlee and Sutton refusing to justify what is happening but saying \u2018Take 50 percent or we can force acquisition at a lower price.\u2019, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I understand there is some sort of parliamentary finance committee looking into the situation, and its submissions close April 15. But we have to accept the offer by March 31. This is just one example of the ridiculous situations we have had to deal with. Two years of stress waiting for any decision is equally ridiculous. I understand you are busy, but this insane situation is reaching a climax, and the 100 families facing financial ruin\u2014bankruptcy in some cases\u2014are desperate for help before March 31.\u201D That says it all, really. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe other big area of Government failure is, of course, insurance. It is high time for the Government to sort out the insurance debacle. A great volume of contested insurance claims continue to fester, causing untold grief and anguish to totally innocent parties. Blameless people are facing the guile, the manipulation, and the artifice of well-practised insurance companies. Why is the Government not proactively supporting people who have paid their insurance bills in good faith for most of their lives? Why has no support system been put in place by the Government to help insurance-stressed people? Many cannot afford to buy advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00225c81cda3baf9440d90bb978cb1675ae8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c81cda3baf9440d90bb978cb1675ae8\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am just searching through Standing Orders, and I ask for your assistance. I believe that where a member is impugned in a speech there is an immediate right of reply provided for in Standing Orders. I believe that that most outrageous speech from the previous speaker, Denis O\u2019Rourke, did make such unparliamentary references, and I would like to have that right of reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u002230730915a94b473fb41d8744ede3628c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230730915a94b473fb41d8744ede3628c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can the member point me in the right direction for the Standing Order, please. The general debate is a debate, at the end of the day. I did not think the comments were that offensive to the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecf2996394a247e1a47cf09d1b820224\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, but you can\u2019t stand up and just tell abject lies and misrepresentations like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245508928ba324401abd0264cc84b802e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The opportunity for the member to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282a8e1f591234b738fa3c2fa16b9ba53\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I know it\u2019s his method. It\u2019s what he does all the time. There\u2019s no question about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220af471de39904c78bb2bd3dad0edd350\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is not a point of order. If the member took offence, he should have raised it at the time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1a89427511849f5857ada3dc4c8af2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1a89427511849f5857ada3dc4c8af2b\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The general debate has traditionally been a very robust debate. In fact, Gerry Brownlee himself made a very robust contribution in which he made a number of allegations about other members that they also may well have found to be very offensive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e215b49237a946b08b7e1ef412565556\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: I know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022beb9151c72b2475baf48f2d390e758d1\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The member in front of me is actually the person whom I was referring to. So if Gerry Brownlee wants to have one set of rules for himself and one set of rules for everybody else, perhaps he is actually illustrating the point that Mr O\u2019Rourke was making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4c9d2d37a1c4ce9b4c10be317512ce8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4c9d2d37a1c4ce9b4c10be317512ce8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f63d209bd97f4691af5f5b1d322c76d5\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cebe74d33fd49219915a683f8ac30e8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not need any further assistance at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5494b6a2dba47aabd7ff3b2c71329e8\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d like to debate the point of order that\u2019s been raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc4333a13cd848da8e23f5dd5b370aa7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I do not need any further assistance whatsoever. This is a general debate. It is a robust debate, it occurs every Wednesday, and it is a good opportunity for politicians to have a strong debate. I take that to be a very strong debate. I think the member who raised the point of order, the Hon Gerry Brownlee, is probably referring to Standing Order 355, which is around the impugning of a member during oral question time. This is a debate. There are other calls for the National Party. If the member was really offended, he had the opportunity to make that comment at the time but did not do so. We are moving on with the next call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u00229b9e0bb483314cb9bdc50a6cf6b8fa5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b9e0bb483314cb9bdc50a6cf6b8fa5f\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Musterer\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Just to assist, I think you might also refer to Standing Order 107, which gives the member the right to reply if a member is misrepresented, misquoted, or misunderstood. But I think also that Mr Brownlee is out of order to apply\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022617562e88dac42ffbb7036341f196f39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022617562e88dac42ffbb7036341f196f39\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I do appreciate that contribution, but we have moved on. I have made a ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c62355d06ba54481a6d8b47887b344c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c62355d06ba54481a6d8b47887b344c1\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E It is no secret in this House that I am very fond of Dr Seuss. I have to say that the debacle around David Shearer led me back to good old Dr Seuss, and I just want to start with a quick quote from Oh, the Places You\u2019ll Go!. It says: \u201CYou\u2019ll get mixed up \u2026 as you already know. You\u2019ll get mixed up with many strange birds as you go. So be sure when you step. Step with care and great tact and remember that Life\u2019s a Great Balancing Act \u2026 never forget to be dexterous and deft. And never mix up your right foot with your left.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EIf we are talking right feet and left feet, you could not ask for anything better than David Shearer\u2019s left and right suggestions. On the one hand he is saying: \u201CI think the fact that Banks forgot $50,000 is laughable. He should stand down.\u201D, and on the left of this picture, with his left foot in his mouth again, he is saying: \u201CI honestly forgot the spare $50,000 in my US bank account.\u201D The story that we are asked to believe and that New Zealanders are asked to believe is that David Shearer fills in a tax return every year and declares this US bank account. Every year he fills that out. We have to take his word for it that he does actually put it in. But when he comes to filling in Parliament\u2019s declaration of pecuniary interests\u2014for listeners, that is just a list of the interests, the assets, the debts, and the gifts that you have received as a member of Parliament\u2014he forgets to put in his US bank account with, I do not know, $50k, $100k, $200k, or however much is in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EI am a reasonable person, and I want to believe that David Shearer is honest and that it was a genuine mistake, but he did not do it just one time. He did not do it just twice. He did not do it just three times. He did it four times\u2014four times. He filled in his tax return and he filled in his pecuniary interests and it was not there. Hallelujah! So now you have to say that there are huge double standards displayed here, and that is no surprise, because Labour members are at it all the time. We have come to expect that from them. But I have to say that even the most generous person could not possibly think that you could make that genuine mistake four times\u20144 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EI went and looked up David Shearer\u2019s CV. It says lots of nice things about him, and I have always thought he was a nice man.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcf23a7893d54e15a6faa7f379b2e962\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s a nice guy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3ca1edc66e8442ca1a23c5bad986184\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: A nice man\u2014yes, a really nice man. What a shame he is the leader of the Labour Party, but, you know. He says in it: \u201CMy belief in social justice naturally led me to the Labour Party.\u201D He says lots of other things. He has got experience in running large-scale relief operations. He has got considerable managerial and financial skills. He has got all of those skills and that is all very nice. He remembered to fill in his tax returns, he remembered to put into his pecuniary interests his Westpac account, but he forgot a stash in New York of $100k. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022389b4fdef7064b0a885957c2b4bde611\u0022\u003EHon John Banks\u003C/span\u003E: A secret stash.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de8c5b4b99074b33b81d4cd73519b720\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: We think it is $100k\u2014a secret stash. He forgot to put that in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EHe espouses social justice. He berates John Key\u2014one of the most successful businessmen in New Zealand, who has become Prime Minister\u2014for being rich and successful, but he forgets that he has got a secret bank account in the US\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d48af4fb24234c29be1de8914655aeb5\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: No secret.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8d9451a7afa44bcb685ee77c6b71a93\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014with more than $50k. Well, it was secret for 4 years, because nobody else knew about it. Shearer refuses to believe that another parliamentarian could forget $50k\u2014he refuses. Hold that picture up: \u201CI think the fact that Mr Banks forgot $50,000 is laughable. He should stand down.\u201D So he is not prepared to accept that a parliamentary colleague could forget $50,000, but he forgets maybe $100,000 or $500,000. Who knows how much it is? He will not tell us. It could be an enormous amount. He demanded John Banks\u2019 resignation. In fact, he demanded that the Prime Minister dismiss him because he could not remember $50,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002289928541f54f49ef91411f1aa3d47006\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289928541f54f49ef91411f1aa3d47006\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We all know that a general debate is an opportunity for both sides of the House to talk about the important issues of the day. We just had 5 minutes\u20145 minutes\u2014of Anne Tolley attacking the Labour leader around a bank account that was used for his pay while he was working with refugee children for the United Nations. All I have to say is that in a general debate, when there are issues of the magnitude that we are seeing currently, if that is what that Government is obsessed with, then we are all in trouble. It is typical of that Government, which is so focused on its own cronyism and so focused on being hands-off and ignoring that there are any problems out there in New Zealand that it would focus in that way on that particular issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House we are much more interested in asking questions around what is happening out there for everyday New Zealanders who are struggling to get by, who are struggling with the costs of living. I know that members on that side of the House get the same question that we get asked as politicians. We all get asked constantly: \u201CWhy are you in politics?\u201D. I would ask the Government that same question: why are you in politics? As a Government, what are you here to achieve? I would welcome any member\u2014any member\u2014from that side of the House answering that, because the evidence gives cause for concern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWith unemployment at 6.9 percent, 175,000 Kiwis looking for work, and 85,000 young people not in employment, education, or training, clearly, this Government is not here for job seekers. Clearly, it is not here for those who are currently trying to better themselves and their families by finding work. We are now more unequal than we have ever been as a country. On this side of the House, we are concerned about that. We are not here to sit idly by while the gap between rich and poor grows and we all suffer the consequences of that. Well, meanwhile, the Government again throws its hands in the air and says that it does not really matter. That Government is not here for everyday families and particularly vulnerable children who are in the homes of those who are suffering under the inability to find work, get ahead, or even work a job with a minimum wage, and who cannot survive. That Government is not here for those families. Today we are about to again debate the welfare reforms. As much as the Minister for Social Development, with all of her rhetoric and political spin, tries to claim that she is here for the vulnerable in society, I am yet to hear her give me one example of how her welfare reforms improve the lot of anyone\u2014anyone\u2014on social security, because, frankly, they do not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ESo why is that Government here? Well, again, I do not need to ask the rhetorical question when I have got the evidence. It is here to sell assets. And to whom? Apparently, to mum and dad investors. Well, if you mean mum and dad investors in Australia\u2014some of whom might actually be New Zealanders, given that we have got 50,000 of them fleeing the country every year\u2014if that is whom the Government is trying to sell assets to, then perhaps it might be here for Australian mum and dad investors. Perhaps the Government is here to do a deal on pokies with Skycity, because we have heard endless discussion, not the least by the Auditor-General, about what a dodgy deal the Government handled with regard to the New Zealand International Convention Centre. Perhaps it is here to spend more on consultants, because anyone who is involved in financial reviews right now knows the huge amount of money that is being spent by our public sector on consultants. The Government is determined to pretend that it is cutting back on the civil service, whilst throwing money at consultants at the same time. Just today we heard that the Families Commission spent over $400,000 on one individual for not much more than 12 months. That is the amount we tend to spend on the White Ribbon campaign on anti-violence, and that was spent on one contractor at the Families Commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWhat happens when we do have a situation where things are going badly and some Government intervention would not go astray? Solid Energy might be an example. We see the Government throw its hands in the air and equally deny that it had anything to do with it in the first place, which we know from Official Information Act request details that we have got is not actually the case. I ask again why it is here and whom it is here for, because if we look at all the need in New Zealand\u2014if we look at all the families who need its help, the job seekers who need its help, the young people who are seeking a better future\u2014it is certainly not here for them. New Zealand should be asking that National Government whom it is here for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022 data-id=\u002265e93633dabd4c2f92afb30a94972ff1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265e93633dabd4c2f92afb30a94972ff1\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BANKS (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E By the look on David Cunliffe\u2019s face, it was him who found the lost cash. It was him who found the lost cash. David Cunliffe is so happy he has found\u2014is it $50,000 or $100,000? He looks so happy he has found the lost cash. I want to ask my National Party colleagues a simple question. How much money does a Labour Party leader need in a bank account before the Labour Party leader knows he has money in a bank account? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cbd18c98d43408f8b38127a779b60e7\u0022\u003EScott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: $1 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282adf27e8216468c9e82e5a3f064df20\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BANKS\u003C/span\u003E: One million dollars? Fifty thousand dollars? Five hundred thousand dollars? I want to ask the Labour Party heavyweight-lightweight, the deputy leader of the Labour Party, this question: where did this money come from? Where did Mr Shearer\u2019s money come from that was in the secret bank account in New York? Where did Mr Shearer get this money from in the first place? [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227164d223b20c443c94abc39cef9533c6\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Can I just say to members that chaos may be fruitful in furthering some forms of management, but it will not be parent to good order in this House. What I want is good order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022014d8d1ebdf249278d199baf02118e0f\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BANKS\u003C/span\u003E: I want to ask the deputy leader of the Labour Party this question: is he absolutely convinced that this cash in this secret bank account was absolutely legitimate? Was this cash in this secret bank account absolutely legitimate? Was this cash in this secret bank account money earned? What was the origin of this secret cash in this secret bank account? Otherwise, why would you not tell the parliamentary register that you had a secret bank account? Why would you tell the Inland Revenue Department\u2014and, by the way, I do not take it on face value that Mr Shearer has told the Inland Revenue Department; Mr Shearer says he has told the Inland Revenue Department\u2014but not tell Parliament? Mr Shearer has told the Inland Revenue Department he had $100,000, $500,000, $1 million, or whatever it is, in his secret bank account, but at the same time he did not tell Parliament\u2019s register that he had $500,000, $1 million, or whatever in a secret bank account. So I want to know that from Mr Shearer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EHe demands accountability. He said last year that any member with a memory lapse was not worthy of public office\u2014any member with a memory lapse was not worthy of holding public office\u2014and the rooster is still in the job today. David Cunliffe is upset, although he looks like he has found the cash, because he knows there is more knife-sharpening here today in the Labour caucus than there is at The Mad Butcher. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EFor 4 years David Shearer remembered to tell the Inland Revenue Department that he had a secret bank account in New York. And what about his ability on finances? He tells the register he has got a home in Mount Albert with a mortgage on it. He will be paying 5.75 percent interest. He has got a secret bank account in New York getting 1.5 percent interest, and he does not pay off his mortgage in Mount Albert. And he wants to look after the mortgages of this country. That is the financial reasoning behind that member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EI have got a question today. I want to ask Mr Shearer, the leader of the Labour Party, a simple question. Come to this Parliament and produce evidence in this Parliament of where he received that money that is in the secret bank account that he has been hiding in New York for 5 years. Where did he get the money from? Produce evidence that it has been legitimately earned by him and placed in a secret bank account. Why else would he hide the money? Tell me. Give me one reason why else the leader of the Labour Party would hide $50,000, $100,000, $500,000, $1 million\u2014we do not know\u2014in a secret bank account in New York if he was not hiding something. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022774c7d3491d9468584a22e70eb8f4200\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Because he forgot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdf1306f3dd843ceace406c4be9365a5\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BANKS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, because he forgot. But he did not forget to tell the Inland Revenue Department that he had a secret bank account in New York; he forgot to tell the parliamentary register. This is what he said. Listen to this carefully\u2014[Interruption] Listen to what he said. Listen to what he said. [Interruption] Listen to what he said. He said that any member who has a memory lapse is not worthy of holding public office, and the rooster is still in charge of the Labour Party chickens today. I mean, that is\u2014[Bell rung]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002211868fa6c0b04b47977c392032b24a9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211868fa6c0b04b47977c392032b24a9a\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave of the House to table the police report into the investigation into John Banks\u2019 donation, which shows that he broke the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u002239bc9b9fabe64001939ebbb0e92c520b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239bc9b9fabe64001939ebbb0e92c520b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff17ab4051664e52b877acd16744e23b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff17ab4051664e52b877acd16744e23b\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I sat 5 metres from the honourable Minister and I could not hear a word he said in the last 2 minutes of that speech. I did not want to interrupt him, and I do not want to interrupt Clare Curran, but you did give a warning to members opposite that the noise was obviously excessive, and they continued with that noise level. Some members in here do want to listen to the speeches, and I ask the members opposite to just lower the tone of their voices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022422673cd20244dffba03929d6f85bd3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022422673cd20244dffba03929d6f85bd3b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. It was a rather robust debate, and I thought the member handled it quite well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022825c7ed81e3945b19b88e7fbffa3b20c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022825c7ed81e3945b19b88e7fbffa3b20c\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I would just like to point out to the hysterical member across the House who spoke before me, John Banks, that David Shearer earned that money himself, that he did not get handed it in a brown paper bag, and that he volunteered the information of his own volition. He did not get \u201Cfound out\u201D and he did not break the law, unlike that member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThere is another debacle on this Government\u2019s doorstep\u2014another debacle of its own making. This was the one that was going to be the step change in our economy: Steven Joyce and John Key\u2019s ill-thought-out ultra-fast broadband scheme, and Chorus\u2019 inability to deliver it. It is developing into a giant stuff-up. It is a huge political risk to this Government, and it knows it. It is a classic case of overpromising and under-delivering. It is think big, without the think; it is mismanagement and shonky deals. You take $1.5 billion of taxpayers\u2019 money, you give most of it to a private company, Chorus, that has a majority of foreign shareholders, and you promise that you will have most of New Zealand signed up to your whiz-bang ultra-fast broadband scheme within 10 years. Then you get to year 5\u2014year 5\u2014and so far just 3,806 households have signed up. That is 0.28 percent. The Government is going to have to work hard to get them all signed up, because so far it has laid fibre to only just past 8 percent of households, and it is worried. Fibre has been laid to quite a few schools, but are they using it? No. And why are they not using it? Well, they tell me it is because there is nothing to use it for and they will have to pay the increased data costs out of their already stretched operations budgets\u2014budgets stretched by sorting out Novopay, a debacle of the highest order also being faced by this Government. That is another giant stuff-up. So its very fast broadband scheme is very slow to take off. That is one big problem for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe other very big problem is that this Government wants to interfere in the price that we pay for our existing broadband\u2014interfere in a way that borders on corruption, and, at the very least, is contempt. The Commerce Commission thinks the price that we pay on the existing copper network should drop. It said so just before Christmas. It came out with a decision, because that is its job. But the Prime Minister did not like its decision. The Government threatened to change the law. Why? Because Chorus complained to the Government. Why? Because if the price of your monthly broadband and phone on the copper network is lower than the prices on the Government\u2019s new fibre network, then people will not sign up to it. They will not sign up to the new broadband scheme. It is the Prime Minister\u2019s own fault. It is the Government\u2019s fault. It negotiated the contract. It wrote the very law 2 years ago, so the Government is threatening to change its own law that it passed 2 years ago to manipulate things. And who is going to win? Well, it will not be the consumer. It will be Chorus, a private company, and its overseas shareholders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ERoss Patterson, the former Telecommunications Commissioner for the Commerce Commission, described it as \u201Cunprecedented\u201D. These people hardly ever speak out in public, but he did. He said the Government had crossed the line of political interference. Sound familiar? Think Skycity deals. Think $43 million loans to MediaWorks. Think the change of law to suit Warner Bros in making The Hobbit. Think the conflicted role of Stephen McElrea, the Prime Minister\u2019s own electorate chairman, who is on the board of New Zealand on Air. And think the Prime Minister\u2019s knowledge of and involvement in the illegal surveillance of Kim Dotcom by the Government Communications Security Bureau and the FBI. An unfolding story\u2014an unfolding story. This Government will do what it likes. It will abuse the law, it will abuse the contract processes, and if it does not like the law, it will either ignore it or change it, and then it will pretend it cannot remember or that it does not really matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAnd there is more. Chorus is now telling us that it is going to cost at least another $300 million more than its contract to lay fibre. It has got its hand out, and who is going to end up paying for it? It will be the good old taxpayer, will it not, because John Key and Steven Joyce are looking after their mates, and they have stuffed up. They have stuffed up big time, possibly even bigger than Novopay, and who is going to bear the cost? It will be the consumer. But it will not work, because changing the terms of Chorus\u2019 contract to prop up its flawed scheme will be crossing too many lines\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7e636862e62476d811b1a8fdb870cd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7e636862e62476d811b1a8fdb870cd2\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Good memory and judgment, judgment and good memory, are vital ingredients of any leader. We have heard this afternoon how David Shearer lacks any memory and certainly exhibits poor judgment, along with a curious phenomenon known as bruxism. Let me explain. Let me explain. Not wishing to be personal, only objective, I have often watched David Shearer there, after being trounced by the Prime Minister in question time, slump back into his seat and begin a round rotation of his jaw. This is known in the trade as bruxism, or involuntary habitual grinding of the teeth, often connected with nightmares. I have observed this over the last few years and can conclude only that he has something serious to gnash his teeth about, and I suggest that Parliament and the gallery watch very closely in the months ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EBut there is more. What has he done about his condition? This leads me to focus on that very thing of judgment when appointing his front bench. Firstly, from the youth section of the Labour Party comes that effervescent, sparkling, ever shroud-waving veteran the Hon Annette King. She was the woman\u2014[Interruption] Oh, there she is! She was the woman who in 9 years doubled the health budget from $6 billion to $12 billion without any increase in output. She was the woman who in 1998 called Bill English a criminal for having a few thousand people on the waiting list, and only 2 years later was busily culling 30,000 people from the waiting list with a benign smile on her face\u2014a benign, matriarchal smile. So David Shearer certainly did not choose her for mismanagement of the health system, nor did he choose her for her sparkling youth. He chose her to tend to his jaws and soothe his nightmares. What extraordinary judgment! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EBut then there is the other remarkable choice in the Labour front bench. Refreshed by his \u201Cwalloping\u201D, as he put it, chastened and contrite from his big smack in the chops, comes the ever-affable Shane Jones. Here we have the apparition of instant redemption from exile galloping down from the backbenches into the front, imbued with energy. But, whoops, this is another memory lapse of David Shearer. Is that not the same Shane Jones who on the Make the Politician Work programme turned up late, staggered on to the Onehunga wharf, and then promptly fell asleep as the boat wended its way out beyond the Manukau Heads and into the fishing grounds? Then, when they came wanting him to work, they could not find him. Finally\u2014finally\u2014the crew was led by sonorous snoring to his bed, where his hands were firmly gripped to his bunk, and it took the captain to turn on the fire alarm to wake him up. It took the captain to turn on the fire alarm to wake him up, and this was all recorded on TV. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EIn fact, the only possible reason David Shearer brought Shane Jones on to the front bench was that he needed someone to act as a decoy; someone who was so enervated he could fall asleep on cue and on camera and make the leader look imbued with energy, even if this was energy devoid of both judgment and of memory. I understand that Mr Jones has vowed, if he is ever given the chance, that he will take a new approach to granting citizenship to Chinese millionaires wanted for embezzlement. He has persuaded the Labour Party campaign team that embezzlement is just another form of entrepreneurship\u2014embezzlement is just another form of entrepreneurship. That will fit in very well with his shadow portfolio of regional economic development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u002233db750fef3743cb899a0cd8921baa81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233db750fef3743cb899a0cd8921baa81\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Being lectured to by that member, Paul Hutchison, is like being savaged by a poodle. Here is what the public knows about: Skycity, Warner Bros, MediaWorks, Banksie and Dotcom, the Government Communications Security Bureau and the FBI, Solid Energy, ultra-fast broadband, car-park taxes, and iPad taxes. What a nightmare. What a nightmare. And what does it add up to? Hands-on? No way. It is the worst economic record in 51 years\u201451 years. There is 6.9 percent unemployment, 270,000 New Zealanders out of jobs, and the biggest international debt in the Western World\u2014worse than Greece. And we had the singular pleasure of being lectured to on financial probity and truth-telling by John Banks. That is like being lectured to on social graces by Jack the Ripper, as my colleague Mr Hipkins has said. Who broke the law, Mr Banks? Who forgot about the helicopter ride and the reported free iPad? What about the birthday party for Kim Dotcom that John Banks attended? What about the money in the brown paper bag? Let us talk about that, Mr Banks, if you can be bothered coming back to face the music. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ECredit where credit is due. Let us be fair. I want to give some credit today to the National Party backbench. Look at them. It is tough work. They are the \u201Cback-down benchers\u201D. They have had to back down twice this week already to cover for the back-down Minister of Revenue, \u201CPeter Dunne-like-a-Dinner\u201D. Two strikes and he is nearly out; one more and he is \u201CDone Dunne\u201D. On the car-park tax the back-down was inevitable because the tax made no financial sense. It cost $2 in compliance costs for every $1 worth of revenue it collected. How did that one get across the Cabinet table? That is what the \u201Cback-down benchers\u201D want to know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9921415c5dc42a186db233dde2eb0eb\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: They were hands-off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247cf7111f90047d5b4c825a54bc08715\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: They were hands-off. They had no hands on the wheel on that one. It was a red tape nightmare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWhat about the iPad tax? The Government did not even cost that one. Or the cellphone tax, where it would have to account to the Inland Revenue Department for all its phone calls? These are 1980s ideas being foisted on a 21st century generation. What are the mums and dads who are ferrying their kids around while answering emails from the office going to say to the \u201Cback-down benchers\u201D? Thank God, they say, that John Key killed it. Well, he damned near killed his own Minister of Revenue, because he announced that the taxes were dead as he walked into the House yesterday. But he had not told the Minister, so he blindsided Peter Dunne right before question time. The \u201Cback-down benchers\u201D have got their eyes on that National - United Future coalition agreement. It is supposed to have things like confidentiality and collective responsibility in it. But there was Mr Dunne defending the car-park tax in the New Zealand Herald while the Prime Minister was on the radio at the same time rubbishing his own Minister\u2019s policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EI would not want to be a United Future member, because I am a proud member of the New Zealand Labour Party\u2014a party that stands for step change, not small change. It is the party that is going to bring New Zealand a modern tax system with a capital gains tax and research and development tax incentives. It is going to close some major avoidance loopholes, and it is going to get the country moving. We are going to be a hands-on Government. We are going to stand for step change, not small change, and those \u201Cback-down benchers\u201D are going to enjoy their comfy, cosy little seats for about another 18 months before they are off to the wilds of Opposition. They see the glimmer of ministerial office fading away\u2014fading away from the \u201Cback-down benchers\u201D. Look at them. There are the Ministers off in their LTDs and there are the \u201Cback-down benchers\u201D eating gruel on the back rows over there, having to be beaten to a pulp by the Labour Party yet again while the public counts the score. And what the public knows is that it is like a rotting carcass on the body politic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThis Government is on its way out. When we do the rounds of corporate New Zealand we are getting the same message all the time, which is: \u201CIt\u2019s time we got to know you guys because we know that you are going to be the Government in 18 months\u2019 time.\u201D This Government is, at best, a two-term Government\u2014if it lasts that long\u2014and New Zealanders know that it is going to be a Labour-led Government that takes New Zealand into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u002202938e0d9002419c8466d662c0c1ef8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202938e0d9002419c8466d662c0c1ef8b\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E What an interesting afternoon and what an interesting position in this debate to follow the Hon David Cunliffe\u2014the only man who is happy and smiling as a result of the revelation of the secret bank account of his leader. The only man in the Labour caucus to gain from this is, indeed, the Hon David Cunliffe, and he was in sparkling form this afternoon\u2014sparkling form\u2014renewed, reinvigorated, and re-energised at the prospect of a further leadership bid. Like the Labor Party in Australia, Labour here is looking around for a new leader, and it may well find one. It has got a candidate there, waiting in the wings, ready to go. David Cunliffe is smiling from ear to ear, looking like the Cheshire cat that he is so famously attributed to be. There he is today, enjoying it in every possible way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EHe, I am sure, does not have a failed memory or the same kind of memory fade that his leader has. Day after day, hour after hour, week after week last year we heard from members on that side pillorying the member for Epsom, the Hon John Banks, for what was, ironically, exactly the same kind of memory fault that their leader now so deliciously finds himself impaled upon. So I was interested to hear the Hon John Banks speak in this debate today and take what was clearly great delight from the situation that has been revealed this week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EIt has been a long, hot summer in Coromandel. Our farmers on the Hauraki Plains and around the Coromandel have had a very, very tough summer. Some tell me that it is the worst drought since the summer of 1946-47. In fact, I was speaking to a couple of my senior retired farmers on the plains only last weekend, and they told me that without doubt this is the worst drought since 1946-47. They pointed out to me that that was a very tough time\u2014just after the war, no Government support, every man and every family for themselves, and the plains were still being drained and broken in. I just cannot really think how difficult that must have been for the farmers of that generation at that time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ETimes have changed since the summer of 1946-47. This John Key - led Government is one that cares about and understands how important our rural sector, our farming community, is, and how important it is to the backbone of our economy. We know that it will come through this, that the rain will come\u2014it is predicted in the next week or two\u2014and that the conditions will return to favourable conditions before very long. We know that the Government support is there through the rural support trust and rural assistance payments from Work and Income if necessary. We are a Government that understands and supports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EBut every cloud has a silver lining. Every cloud has a silver lining, and though it has been a hard summer for our farmers, our tourist operators, such as our Hauraki Rail Trail cycleway operators, tell us that the tourists have been coming to Coromandel in droves. They have been enjoying the summer. The biggest problem that we have had on the Hauraki Rail Trail this summer has been its almost full capacity. Indeed, the Mayor of the Hauraki District Council tells me that so successful has the Hauraki Rail Trail been this summer\u2014it was originally predicted to have in year 5 some 45,000 people riding it\u2014that in January of this year over 12,000 people cycled it in just 1 month. So now the Hauraki District Council, on the back of that kind of success, is going to have to provide extra infrastructure in the form of parking and facilities for the numbers of people who want to ride the cycleway. What a wonderful problem that is to have. We hear reports of cafe owners and restaurateurs who are finding it difficult to cope with the demand that is coming from the cycleway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ECoromandel has been receiving great economic benefit in recent times, with two big announcements in just the last week or two. Fonterra is spending $100 million at Waitoa on a new milk-processing facility\u201450 jobs and untold extra contractors working there\u2014and Summerset in Katikati is spending another $100 million on a new retirement village. It has been a long time since anyone has spent $100 million in Katikati, and the folk of Katikati welcome it, as do I as the local member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThese are good times for this National Government and these are good times for the people of Coromandel. They have enjoyed and are basking in a continued long, hot summer. Notwithstanding the issues and challenges that our hard-working farmers and their families have, they will come through it, and we will continue to prosper and work hard through this enjoyable summer. It has been a great summer for National.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220bfa542a0d3a44b092edc09a0cc8ec29\u0022\u003ESocial Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221fb060922ffe4ff3902068a79037cb12\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5539c369316432bb9be7f7710e370c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5539c369316432bb9be7f7710e370c4\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. This Government is progressing the most comprehensive package of welfare reforms that this country has ever seen. The reforms have been designed to be carefully staged over 2 years and this bill represents the latest suite of changes to improve the benefit system for all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EIt has been some time since this bill was before the House so I will run briefly through the changes this bill introduces. Seven benefit types will be consolidated into three: jobseeker support, sole parent support, and the supported living payment. This is key to simplifying and modernising the system. We are introducing social obligations to ensure that children in benefit-dependent homes get quality early childhood education, are enrolled with a doctor, and get their Well Child checks, and that school-aged children are in school. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EWe are introducing a requirement for job seekers to be drug-free and available for work. Forty percent of jobs advertised with Work and Income require a drug test. It is simply unacceptable that because of recreational drug use many are unable to work and take up available job opportunities. We will stop the benefit after 10 days if someone has already had an outstanding arrest warrant for 28 days that they have not cleared. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThese changes are fair and reasonable. We campaigned on all of these policies at the last election and overwhelmingly New Zealanders support these reforms. We are introducing the investment approach to the benefit system, which will focus support on those most at risk of long-term welfare dependence. This underpins welfare reform and the new modernised benefits system. It is part of the National-led Government\u2019s approach to welfare reform, which will better support people into work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe old system had a very narrow focus of support for the unemployment benefit, which, as we know from the first actuarial valuation of benefits, is very short-sighted. Those on the unemployment benefit are least likely to stay on long term, yet it is that group we invest the most money in through employment support. Greater support needs to be tailored to individuals who need it most, and these reforms will do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EA number of changes have been made to the bill through the select committee process. These include allowing for additional parent-led options for early childhood education like the Home Interaction Programme for Parents and Youngsters. The changes have also widened the scope for approved home-based early childhood education through Te Aho o Te Kura Pounamu. For those who prefer their preschoolers to remain at home, they can enrol with this home-based early childhood education. I support these changes and thank the chair and the Social Services Committee for their input. There are a number of other technical changes, but I will let the select committee chair and others go through those in more detail if they so wish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EWe have heard a lot of rhetoric from the Opposition about welfare, but, quite frankly, I have seen no plan. If hand-wringing and sympathy were the answer to welfare dependence, Labour would have solved that problem many years ago, but it did not. Even at the height of the economic cycle, Labour did not reduce dependency. Today it is no closer to a solution, just an offer of tea and sympathy for those on benefits, whom it clearly sees as victims. This Government does not see people on welfare as victims, but as individuals who, with the right support, can in most cases have a better life in work and off welfare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EFor those who simply cannot work, due to severe illness or disability, we will continue to support them with dignity. Changing the name of the benefit is a small but significant gesture to them, because many found the term \u201Cinvalid\u201D to be, quite frankly, offensive. From July they will no longer be on an invalids benefit; they will receive the supported living payment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThroughout the recent recession we have heard the Opposition\u2019s hollow call for more jobs. We would all like more available jobs, and if simply calling for jobs actually created employment, it would be easy\u2014perhaps someone should tell Europe. This Government listens to and supports employers to keep people in work and take more staff on. We have done this through a suite of work subsidies, which has made a real difference. We have also cut red tape, introduced the 90-day law, and improved productivity and competitiveness through the Government\u2019s Business Growth Agenda. As you know, the House is currently debating the starting-out wage, which employers welcome because it will help them to take on more young people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EFor every tragic story that the media rolls out, where the Opposition stands by, wringing its hands, I can give you a positive story of success, because even through the worst of the recession we have seen real successes. In 2012 we had 81,000 people go off welfare and into work, and that is worth celebrating. Work and Income is getting around 1,000 new vacancies a week from employers. These are jobs in agriculture, forestry, fishing, and construction, in large part, as well as others in manufacturing, administration, and so on. Work and Income is matching people with these jobs every day and is seeing successes every day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EI will continue to sing the successes of every New Zealander who finds a job, keeps a job, and kicks welfare for touch, and do you know why? Because, quite frankly, we on this side of the House back people. I do so because I have never forgotten where I have come from. I have never forgotten how tough it was being a young, single mum on welfare, with the Labour Party telling me that that was all I was worth. I have never forgotten how tough it was going for those job interviews, when I felt I lacked the experience, the knowledge, the skills, and the confidence. But, most of all, I have never forgotten how it felt when an employer said yes and gave me an opportunity. It was the best feeling in the world. It was both terrifying and thrilling, and it gave real hope. The first job was not the best job\u2014not by a long shot\u2014and they did not all last for long, but each job gave me experience and skills and built my confidence as I learnt to stand on my own two feet and took responsibility for my own daughter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EIt was National, quite frankly\u2014it was National, not Labour\u2014that spoke to me as a young, M\u0101ori sole mum with an ambitious message that said: \u201CYou don\u2019t have to be a victim. You can be a success.\u201D That is what I want for others\u2014the feeling of being self-reliant in work and of saying to Work and Income: \u201CThanks, but I don\u2019t need a benefit any more.\u201D I know it is a big ask. I know that it is not easy, but with the right support and the right policies in place, I also know that we can do it. I want New Zealanders on a benefit to know that they have a Minister and they have a Government that are backing them to look beyond a lifetime on welfare. We will support, encourage, push, and incentivise, and, yes, we will sing the successes of those who can and do find work and of the businesses\u2014[Bell rung]\u2014that make those opportunities available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c945317e7121424389b908adbbecb9da\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c65b6215dcb44ada44c9ddfbfe24df0\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Not yet\u2014not yet, sweetie. The public see where the differences lie between an Opposition encouraging victims and a Government backing ambition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EI have heard the criticism that the number of people on benefits went up under my watch, and, yes, it did when the recession hit. People needed help and this Government provided it to them. I sometimes these days find it ironic that I am the one defending people\u2019s right to welfare if they need it, and Ms Ardern is advocating kicking them off and saying that there are too many on it. I read the minority report on this bill from that member\u2019s party and, quite frankly, it was not worth the time it took to read it. It was so full of inaccuracies. I want it on record in Hansard that the Labour Party minority report is actually factually incorrect and misleading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe public have already seen the steady decrease in benefit numbers since the peak of the recession. The numbers of people on the unemployment benefit, the DPB, and the invalids benefit all fell during 2012. In the past 2 years the number of young people on welfare fell from 21,576 to 15,858. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe changes in this bill are essential if we want to refocus the welfare system so that it helps New Zealanders reach their potential and reduces the amount of people locked into welfare dependency. This Government undertook to deliver that system\u2014a modern system\u2014and this bill is a significant step towards that outcome. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00221db3f215c8154617814f77d4c7598819\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221db3f215c8154617814f77d4c7598819\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the next member, I just want to caution the House that all members in the House are honourable, and that is it. We refer to each other as \u201Chonourable\u201D, despite what we may think otherwise. We call the member what we ourselves would want them and us all to become. So I caution the House. We see the world as we are, not as it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9bf462dc7f14887b2ebd25b0d3a8d4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9bf462dc7f14887b2ebd25b0d3a8d4e\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We have just heard from that Minister that, apparently, she will never forget the place from which she started before becoming a member of Parliament and, indeed, the Minister for Social Development. I have never felt compelled to reflect on the Minister\u2019s personal experience. I have personally never thought it was necessarily appropriate to do so. But the Minister herself has brought it into the context of the welfare reforms, so I feel compelled now to respond to that challenge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThat Minister claims that she never forgot what it felt like to be on the domestic purposes benefit and the lack of confidence that she felt during that time. She probably also never forgot what it felt like to have the support of the training incentive allowance to help her study to become a social worker\u2014assistance that she has since severely reduced the ability of other people in the same position to access. She probably never forgot what it felt like to be able to study and better herself whilst being a mum on the domestic purposes benefit\u2014something that is an opportunity that is now removed for many domestic purposes benefit recipients, because they will be transferred to a job-seeker benefit and will not be allowed to study. If that Minister truly never forgot what it was like to be on the DPB, then clearly she has forgotten the emotions she has just expressed now, because those are the emotions I get every single day in the letters I receive as spokesperson on social development for Labour. If that Minister wants to pretend that somehow, through these welfare reforms, she is improving the situation for those people, I would like her to explain how that is, because all she has done, as far as I can see, is remove the very ladder that she walked up herself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThat Minister also raised benefit figures. She has tried to claim that somehow, on this side of the House, we have denied that people should get access to welfare when they need it most. That is entirely inaccurate. You will never hear a member of the Labour Party ever claim anything other than that the social security system is there for those who need it most\u2014for those who need it most\u2014and that in their times of need, that is what it is there for. We will defend it because we built it. But I cannot sit back and allow a Minister to claim that her welfare reforms have been successful because of all the people who have come off. That is a complete contradiction, because since 2008 the numbers in all of the major categories have gone up. So it is a contradiction for that Minister to claim success based on numbers. If the Minister is going to stand up and tell this House that 5,000 people have come off a sickness benefit, I will point out that during that time 7,000 people went on. Sure, absolutely, if they need to access it, they should. But it is absolutely disingenuous for that Minister to try to bandy around numbers as though her reforms have changed the world when in actual fact, for the people who are experiencing it on the front line, they have done no such thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIn fact, if you ask those who are on Government support right now what kind of impression they have been left with from these reforms\u2014well, why not look at what the public probably think about when they hear the welfare reforms? Let us track back through the announcements and the way they were trickled out\u2014probably providing a bit of context about what was happening at the time. Nick Smith resigned over the ACC debacle, and within 6 days we had the first welfare reforms announced. The John Banks - Kim Dotcom scandal broke. Campbell Live started directly implicating the Prime Minister, and within a week there was the contraception announcement. It was part of a package, but it was all dribbled out. The contraception announcement was dropped\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222078fe20094c4289b8e63254140fcfe2\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. As much as I am reluctant to interrupt my colleague across the aisle, this is the Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill. It has got nothing to do with Kim Dotcom and a whole range of other things that we discussed during the general debate. I ask the member just to bring it back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a981cc6e75ef4a32b423f072add23330\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the honourable member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228e765435a5f43eeb44f3d8d90a14566\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying, the first tranche of welfare reforms was released at that time, and there was the contraception element. People might remember that. We were going to give access to long-term contraceptives to beneficiaries, which I understand fewer than 40 people have taken up. We then in June had the resignations in ACC and the continuing Bronwyn Pullar scandal, and in that same period Bill English then raised drug testing. Drug testing was raised again on 21 July, and again for a third time it was announced on 28 August\u2014all at points of convenience for the Government. Drug testing remains one of the most well-known aspects of this form of welfare reforms, the \u201Cinvestment approach\u201D that the Minister talks about. And then we come to the police report that came out on John Banks, which, again, was released within a 24-hour window of the social obligations coming out. The next day the cost of welfare generally, the actuarial valuation, was then announced. I think you get my point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EForgive me if I am cynical about this Government\u2019s approach to social security, because it seems that any time anything goes badly for it, a welfare reform is handily plucked out from a bill and dropped early before the media. If you ask the general public what they know of the welfare reforms, what will they tell you? Will they tell you about this investment approach that the Minister speaks of? Will they talk about an active social security system? No, they will be able to tell you about drug testing and when a warrant of arrest is out being able to cut a benefit. They will probably tell you about social obligations\u2014cutting benefits for all those beneficiaries who are not doing right by their children. This is apparently the dignified system that the Minister spoke so fondly of that was not going to treat people like they were victims or like they were doing something wrong. Yet every element of this Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill speaks to the idea that people who are on benefits are either criminals, drug takers, or abusing their children in some form. That is the message that these welfare reforms send. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWhat would an investment approach then look like\u2014this mythical thing that the Minister keeps speaking of? Well, you would imagine there might be something in the bill that would at least talk about the lack of jobs out there at the moment, or maybe even address the high cost of childcare, which we know is a barrier to work for those sole parents. Does the bill do anything on that? No. Does the bill do anything about those who are trying to get into work but do not have the right skills, training, or education? No. In fact, this bill puts in a barrier if you are in a job-seeker category, which will now take in all those on a sickness benefit and all those on sole parent support who have a child over a certain age, by saying: \u201CSit on this benefit looking for a job. But don\u2019t you think about trying to train, because you must be ready and waiting for a ghost job.\u201D That is what this says. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI have had letters from people who have said: \u201CI wanted to better myself with a course that would mean I would be off the benefit in the longer term, and I was told by Work and Income that, no, I had to sit and wait in case they called me with part-time work.\u201D\u2014part-time, precarious work. The woman who raised that with me who wanted to become trained as a nurse was then told the next day she was not able to, because they had a part-time cleaning job for her. She would have to stay on the benefit, but she would have a part-time cleaning job. Is that the investment approach? Is that the active, dignified system that this Minister speaks so fondly of? In fact, this bill does the exact opposite to what that Minister has claimed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThere are 399,000 people on social security currently. They broadly fall into two categories. The first is those who are working actively to try to find employment. That is the vast majority of people on social security right now. The example I used today of the graduate who has applied for 70 jobs is a real example, and yet this bill does absolutely nothing for her. The second category of people is those who may, for reasons of health or disability in some form, require the support of our social security system for a longer period of their lives. This bill does nothing to change the reality for those two groups of people, but it does a lot to further the political gains of that National Government, which has purposely highlighted particular elements of this bill that appeal to the ugly side of New Zealand. It is the side that says that somehow we should have downward envy to those who are for a period in their lives using a form of social support, when it is all of our intentions in this House that people have a better life outside of that system and in employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThis bill is a major lost opportunity, but, worse than that\u2014worse than that\u2014it vilifies people who are trying to do the right thing and get into employment, and that Minister has absolutely forgotten what that feels like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7023e7dc946403d81a27a9a1b6ca280\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7023e7dc946403d81a27a9a1b6ca280\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E Malo le soifua. It is a pleasure to take a call\u2014as I said earlier during the point of order\u2014on the second reading of the Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill. As chairman of the Social Services Committee I just want to thank and acknowledge again the role that our Minister Paula Bennett has played in this bill and in the area of welfare, because these reforms are necessary yet reasonable under the circumstances. I want to thank her for the leadership that she has shown in this welfare area. These reforms will have a lasting impact on this country because it is about investment in people, it is about investment in services, and it is about backing people to go out and find work where they are able to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI also want to thank the Government officials, the clerks, and the parliamentary counsel for assisting our committee to bring this bill back to the House with its report and commentary. We received and considered 683 submissions from interested groups and individuals on this bill. We heard 83 submissions from 35 organisations and 48 individuals at hearings both here in Wellington and in Auckland. I want to thank my fellow committee members, including Miss Ardern, despite her misguided approach to these reforms, for the constructive way that we approached these deliberations, and also the submitters for the time and the effort that they put into both the written and oral submissions to the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EFollowing on from the successful Future Focus reforms, which the Minister has alluded to, and the first welfare reform bill last year, which all members of this House will be aware of, this is the second part of a comprehensive package of welfare reform. The investment approach is about shifting the focus of the benefit system towards better use of resources. What it does is it puts money up front into services like parenting services and like budgeting services, to reduce the overall cost to not only those people affected but also our economy and the Government. It will require a different approach to working with beneficiaries based on their individual circumstances, which the Minister referred to. It is supported by the best available evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E The Government spends $21 billion on social development. It is the largest Government portfolio and it accounts for one-third of all Government expenditure across the country, so we need to gear these support services towards the 21st century and actually achieve results for taxpayers, which, again, the Minister referred to in her speech. This bill includes simplified benefit categories, a greater work focus, new expectations for partners of beneficiaries, and work preparation activities. It will also require job seekers to be drug-free, allow benefits to be stopped if there are outstanding arrest warrants, and include social obligations to ensure that children access the appropriate education and health services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe main policy issues of significance raised by submitters were in relation to social obligations, the medical assessments of disabled and mentally impaired people, and sanctions as well as procurement, but I will touch on only two of those. The most contentious issue was the obligation to have preschool children enrolled in and attending early childhood education centres. Arguments were made around the appropriateness of this to all children, and some interesting and compelling evidence was produced to argue this. Parental choice was referred to, and that this bill would restrict it. So, in response to these concerns, the select committee worked hard to amend the bill to allow approved programmes to be included in the social obligations, with decisions on criteria to be set through ministerial direction. In doing so, we have listened to the submissions of organisations that pointed to the positive and significant contribution of home-based programmes for preschoolers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe select committee also clarified the policy intent that the 15-hour target for early childhood education attendance is somewhat aspirational and that flexibility would be preserved through regulations. The issue of home-schooling was also prevalent in the submissions and, in particular, in the forceful submission of the Home Education Foundation. The select committee amended the bill to clarify that home-schooling meets school attendance requirements at the age of 5 if the parent meets other criteria for work obligations. This recognises that, obviously, school attendance is not legally required until the age of 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EOne of the other issues that the select committee grappled with was around the drug testing of beneficiaries. This bill does not authorise drug testing, but it focuses on whether a failed drug-test or a refusal to undertake a drug test is acting as a barrier or otherwise to suitable employment. In terms of sanctions, the Ministry of Social Development will act under lawful drug-test results only in respect of the job being sought. Under sanctions generally, the bill really gives beneficiaries maximum time to re-comply at the three stages of asking, and there is a maximum of only a 50 percent financial sanction as a last resort. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI want to finally mention the issue of advice from the Regulations Review Committee that subsequent changes to the primary legislation should be subject to parliamentary scrutiny, which most members agreed with. So in response to its concerns we amended the bill so that the annual benefit, expiry, and reapplication processes apply to all beneficiaries, with some exemptions, and these will be done through regulations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EIn summary, then, we believe that being in paid work is the best thing for people on welfare. It is plain and it is simple: if you can work, you should work, and you should be looking for work. This bill introduces the requirement for beneficiaries to be interviewed for and accept any offer of suitable employment. This bill introduces social obligations, as we have stated, and it really looks at those families with dependent children, of which there are 220,000 across this country. This bill, as I said in opening, will go a long way to making sure that these kids have the best start to life. It will have some of the most lasting, positive impacts on families over time, and that is why I support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022be7de7f47f0f45b28f8ccb5eacb3faa8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be7de7f47f0f45b28f8ccb5eacb3faa8\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E Labour strongly opposes this bill, the Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill. Introducing reforms like these at a time of such high unemployment without tackling the well-established barriers that, it is widely agreed, keep people out of jobs, such as the high cost of childcare and inadequate training and education opportunities, means this bill will surely fail. Further, we believe that the whole idea underlying this bill is wrong and unfair. It starts from the assumption that those people who temporarily seek the support of the State are bludgers, are shirkers, and do not want to work. That is the underlying idea behind this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ELast night we debated the Minimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill and, frankly, I felt sick being in this Chamber debating that bill, because of what it said about this Government and what this Government thinks of its fellow New Zealanders. Its idea of helping young people get into the job market is to cut their wages and, frankly, I think that is a disgrace, and this bill is no better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIt is really interesting. This bill is based on the assumption embedded deep in the reptilian brain of the National Party that anyone needing assistance from the State is a shirker\u2014a shirker and a bludger. The members on that side of the House should reflect on the history of our country and what their party and its forebears did in the 1930s, sending people off to work camps, and in the 1990s Ruth Richardson\u2019s \u201Cmother of all Budgets\u201D. It is exactly the same punitive fear of the poor and demonising of people who are out of work, and it is exactly the same ethos and idea that underlies this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWe know that under the fifth Labour Government, when jobs were plentiful, people took them. I remind the members on that side of the House that year after year\u2014in fact, for almost 9 years\u2014this country enjoyed the lowest unemployment rates in the OECD. Year after year after year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267ce514a902a44309033030d47edad01\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How was invalids? How was sickness?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f3d202b8db6411f90e6d374e676f09f\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Do you remember that, Minister? Do you remember that we had the lowest unemployment in the OECD? And you know what? When there were jobs, people wanted to work. They took those jobs. People took those jobs when they were there, but now, mysteriously, because there is a National Government, suddenly all of these New Zealanders are lazy. They are bludgers. Young people who have barely left school, who cannot get into the job market, apparently are wasters and are bludgers. Middle-aged men and women who have had half a lifetime of work in the workforce, who were laid off for no reason, through no fault of their own, apparently are bludgers and are lazy. People who are battling with mental illness and with disabilities, under this National Government apparently need a good kick in the arse because they do not want to work. Let us give them a bit of stick and let us give them the bash\u2014that is what this bill does. The members on that side of the House do not want to hear it. They do not want to hear it. Nikki Kaye does not want to go back to the people of Grey Lynn and explain to them why she is voting for a bill that demonises the unemployed and actually makes life more difficult for people who temporarily need the assistance of the State because they are out of work. That is a sad indictment of what this National Party thinks of its fellow New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EInstead of seeing the problem as a lack of jobs, instead of seeing the challenge to come up with an active employment policy, and instead of rethinking this Government\u2019s economic policy in light of its signal failure to manage the economy in a way that generates new jobs, what does it do? Ms Bennett frames the problem as one of welfare dependency. So the problem is not that there are not enough jobs. The problem is not poor economic management that has given this country one of the highest youth unemployment rates in the world. No, the problem is welfare dependency. Ms Bennett, the Minister, is the former beneficiary solo mother who, as one of the first things she did once she got into power as the welfare Minister, cut back the training incentive allowance so people in the same life circumstances would not be able to benefit from the same support that she received from the State. She frames the problem as welfare dependency, and her role as the Minister for Social Development is to rescue people from welfare dependency, not to go to Cabinet and argue for a jobs policy, but to rescue people from welfare dependency by putting in place a regime of punitive sanctions. I just think the National Party members should be ashamed of themselves, coming to the House with a bill like this and voting for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI want to touch on a few key parts of the bill that we have concerns with, and on the basis of our opposition to this bill. We believe that the introduction of social obligations on parents who are welfare beneficiaries is both wrong and unfair, and an overwhelming number of the submitters who came to the Social Services Committee submitted along those lines. We support the principle that all children should take part in early childhood education, but we do not believe that it is fair or reasonable for that aim to be backed up by a sanction that would cut a parent\u2019s benefit in half. What will that do for the well-being of children in some of the poorest families in this country? Decreasing the income into a child\u2019s home in that way will ultimately do severe damage to the child. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWe remain disappointed that the Government has put in place an obligation on parents to put their kids into early childhood education without addressing the obvious holes in the provision of early childhood education. The Child Poverty Action Group came along to the select committee and told the committee, provided the data that shows a large gap between the number of children in low-income areas in particular and the provision of early childhood education. But that is a mere detail to this Minister and to these National members. They do not care about the reality. They do not care about the facts. They are simply obsessed with a punitive approach that demonises people who need the support of the State. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ESecondly, I turn to work obligations and the whole issue of assessment. We object to the assumption, as I have said, that underlies all of these provisions that people who are on welfare do not wish to work. We heard compelling evidence from people in the disability sector who said that many sickness beneficiaries and invalids beneficiaries are desperate to work, but there are so many barriers in the way that make it difficult for them. Nothing in this bill will make it easier for people who battle a disability to get into the workforce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWe remain concerned that the Minister has signalled a UK-style medical assessment regime for people who are on a sickness benefit or an invalids benefit. That is extremely concerning. That medical assessment model in the UK has been a disaster. In spite of repeated requests at the select committee to put more detail on that proposal, the Government has failed to be transparent on that issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWe have seen a huge increase in the use of sanctions under this Government in the social development area. There is no assessment in place, there is no evidence that the increase in sanctions has had any kind of success, and we should see an assessment regime that actually looks to measure the harm or benefit that families have received as a result of the sanctions regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIn terms of drug testing, Labour agrees, of course, that there is a problem with drugs in the workplace, and that needs to be tackled with practical issues. But the Government has turned a deaf ear to the evidence, the very persuasive evidence that was brought to the select committee by the Drug Foundation, which said that a simple testing regime, with sanctions, is inadequate and actually could do more harm than good to our drug treatment system. The foundation argued that categorising all drug users as dependent, when they may not be, and placing them into treatment programmes will put pressure on an already under-resourced service. Labour does not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u002215f2f3894d984bfcb5e808f766b908d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215f2f3894d984bfcb5e808f766b908d3\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to stand on behalf of the Green Party, and particularly on behalf of Jan Logie, who is the Green MP who has seen this Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill through the Social Services Committee and heard the submissions on the select committee. Jan is not able to be here, but she has prepared a speech for me to deliver today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIn this speech she describes her real sadness and disappointment about this bill being returned to the House. She describes how hard it is in New Zealand at the moment to talk about the needs of people receiving income support and their families. It seems as if just the word \u201Cbeneficiary\u201D has become synonymous with a drain on society, with vitriolic attacks on families and beneficiaries. These are people who are injured and unable to get accident compensation; people with cancer; people with physical, mental, or neurological impairment, which, sadly, most workplaces do not accommodate; people who are sick; sole parents leaving violent relationships; sole parents caring for children with disabilities; sole parents through no choice of their own; people caring for parents who may be dying; and, of course, people who lost their jobs when factories and public services shut down or moved out of our smaller cities and towns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThese are people who, because benefit levels are so low, are surviving on incomes that mean many of them need to choose between adequate heating in winter and food, have to save in order to go to the doctor, ask for more money to replace their children\u2019s shoes when they get holes in them, cannot afford to take their children to the movies, or for whom paying the school donation means sacrificing school trips for their children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EAll these examples, these stories, that she heard at the select committee simply deepen her concern and distress that this bill will continue those attacks on people suffering from financial vulnerability. But it infuriates me. I am infuriated because this Minister and the heartless Government of which she is a part know that children will suffer as a result of this bill. They know that fewer children will access health care. They know that fewer children will get medicine. They know that more children will present at emergency departments when their chronic bronchitis or their asthma or their rheumatic fever gets so bad it puts their lives at risk. This Minister knows that she puts the health of children at risk if this Government passes these reforms, and they still do not care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EWhat is an example? I have described a few today. The Ministry of Health says that making Well Child checks compulsory, under the threat of losing the benefit, will put children at risk of worsening health and more presentations at the emergency department. The Ministry of Health said to the Ministry of Social Development that \u201CThere are risks to the Well Child programme if the checks are seen as a punishment or a sanction. One of the valuable traits of Well Child\u201D\u2014they say\u2014\u201Chas been that it is non-threatening and has a high degree of public and family acceptability.\u201D The risks to the Well Child programme are very real because the intention of Paula Bennett is to misuse this programme as a punishment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EAs an example of what the intention is, how Draconian the intention from the Ministry of Social Development was, in July 2012 the Ministry of Health asked the Ministry of Social Development to amend the wording of a paper that was going to Cabinet. The Ministry of Health said this: \u201CPlease remove the word \u2018surveillance\u2019. The Well Child programme is not designed or intended as a mechanism for surveillance of beneficiary families or indeed any families. It is a health promotion child development programme that works from a basis of partnership and engagement between the practitioner and the parent and child.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThis shows what the intention of Paula Bennett was then, and is still now. Paula Bennett intends to use the Well Child programme to investigate families, simply because those families have to rely on a benefit to pay their rent and put food on the table. It is a deliberate attack on poorer families, the families who are desperate for work whom this Minister ignores. Ultimately the problem is that this Minister does not start from the position of looking at what is best for the child. If she did, she would have listened to the Ministry of Health advice that said: \u201CDon\u2019t make Well Child checks compulsory. Don\u2019t impose financial sanctions on beneficiaries.\u201D If she did, she would not make early childhood education compulsory for beneficiary families either, because while increasing access to good quality early childhood education is a good idea, the sector itself has told this Government that the best way to achieve that is to provide early childhood education where it is needed first. This Government has gone about the whole process in completely the wrong way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E The fact is that not all parents want their 3-year-olds to spend 15 hours\u2014that is, nearly 3 school days\u2014at the local early childhood education centre, at the creche, at the local kindy, or even, as is now revealed, with the lady down the road, who might be employed as a home carer, looking after kids of her own. Let us just think about what this means. I would have been forced, when I was a sole parent on the benefit, to send my child off to another home, into the home care of another woman down the road, because there was no other early childhood education centre that I could choose or that was appropriate, who has even more children to take care of, including her own. Yet I would not be allowed under this regime to prioritise the care of my child in the best interests of my child. That is what this Government is removing from parents\u2014ordinary New Zealand parents\u2014the right to decide themselves what is in the best interests of their child and to make decisions about the best interests of their child. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThis Government removes that right from parents just because they are poorer and just because they do not have a job and, therefore, have to rely on a benefit to pay the rent and put food on the table. It is saying to these beneficiaries: \u201CYou are not trusted, and if you don\u2019t do what the Government says, the Government will hold to ransom what you value the most in this world. The Government will cut off the support that you need to feed and raise your child if you don\u2019t do what the Government says.\u201D\u2014just because you are poor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIt is clear that the current situation and the hopelessness and the hardship that people are experiencing are unacceptable. So the question for the House becomes what we can do to make it better, because it is clear that the Government\u2019s approach is a deficit approach, and it seems to start from the belief that no one wants to work\u2014we have heard some of this before\u2014and people will do everything they can to avoid work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aec8aecbceec4c55baeb53e05c696c79\u0022\u003ENicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: From Labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb957b3bbb764e4a850aa34b916e1af2\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this is National\u2019s position. It believes that no one wants to work. National believes that people will do anything they can to avoid work, unless they are placed under so many obligations that it makes it impossible for them to make any decisions about their own lives, or National will force people into such a position of low self-esteem that they are not able to take the opportunities that might be offered around them. This is a time of such high unemployment that the Minister for Social Development is compelled to send out a press release about the creation of 16 census jobs. This is the employment environment we are in\u201416 census jobs and the Minister for Social Development is crowing about how great that is, and in the meantime punishing parents who want to take care of their kids and do what is in the best interests of their children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EWell, the submitters did have solutions. This Government has none, but the submitters certainly did. They talked about job creation, the definition of \u201Cemployment\u201D and \u201Csuitable employment\u201D, the minimum wage exemption, additional funding and resources to support disabled people into work, and the availability of services and supports for people with disabilities. Submitters talked about a universal basic income, the rates of benefit payments such that people can survive with some decency, income adequacy, and extending Working for Families so that we eliminate the abuse that beneficiary families suffer as a result of the Working for Families rules. They offered solutions around the abatement rates and discretion to disregard income for the purposes of calculating income so that beneficiary families could save, so that there could be some more flexibility for beneficiary families in the system, but all of these options were ruled out of scope by the Social Services Committee. That just highlights the opportunities that have been missed in this wave of punitive reforms. Opportunities to improve access, to remove barriers, and to eliminate poverty have all been sacrificed for the sake of increased work-testing, increased assessment, social obligations, drug testing, and sanctions that will ultimately cause families, and especially their children, harm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThis bill is a terrible failure for families in the most need. It is blind to the real work people are engaging in and wilfully ignores the structural barriers to employment. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022caf44484272741ccaa5025837b6adfbc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022caf44484272741ccaa5025837b6adfbc\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise to speak on the second reading of the Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill. Before I make my contribution, I would like to respond to a couple of points that other speakers have made. I guess, to start with, Ms Turei talked about how infuriated she was and how she felt that this Government was actually heartless. I would like to respond by saying that I am infuriated by her comments, because it is incredible how Opposition members make out that this Government and this National Party do not care about beneficiaries. That is absolutely not true. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EWe believe that most people do not want to be on the benefit but have to be on it in certain circumstances, when they fall on difficult times. Whether it is a marriage breakup or they get ill, there are many circumstances where people have to rely on State help. As Jacinda Ardern mentioned earlier, Labour was, in fact, the architect of social welfare. Well, let me say that we support that\u2014people who are in difficult circumstances being on benefits. But let me quote from the Dominion Post last year, which said: \u201CThose pioneers of the welfare state would never have envisaged the benefit system New Zealand has today. They would have been appalled by the thought of thousands of perfectly healthy adults spending more than a decade on the dole and thousands more 16 and 17-year-olds being paid to sit around and do nothing.\u201D Welfare dependency is what we are trying to prevent. Mr Phil Twyford sort of said: \u201CThe whole idea behind this bill is wrong.\u201D What is wrong with backing people? What is wrong with telling people that they are better than being dependent on welfare? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThis bill forms part of a package of reforms being introduced over 2 years that will basically shift the focus of the benefit system towards encouraging and supporting beneficiaries to move into paid work. National actually campaigned on reforming welfare by taking an investment approach that will make sure we have an enduring welfare system that supports Kiwis who fall on difficult times. That is what welfare was designed to do\u2014to help people when they are caught in a jam. It is not about a lifestyle choice, and we never said that people who are on welfare are choosing to go on welfare as a lifestyle. There are some who do, but not all, and the majority do not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EHaving said that, the Government\u2019s reforms have at the core a belief that most people can and do want to work and that most people do not choose to be on a benefit as a lifestyle choice. But this Government spends $8 billion a year on welfare, and that is for 330,000 working-age people. That is about 12 to 13 percent of the working-age population who receive the benefit, and there are 220,000 children who live in benefit-dependent homes. Evidence shows that children are better off when parents are working, not when parents are on welfare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI would like to thank the Minister for Social Development, who has put in a lot of work. I see her passion when she talks about welfare reform. This is the biggest amount of work that any Government has done, and no matter what Opposition members say\u2014and they can criticise the Minister and this Government all they want\u2014let me say this. Under the 9 years that Labour was in Government, what did Labour\u2014the architect of social services, the architect of State help\u2014do for the people who are on welfare? It did nothing. This is a great bill. I commend it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022 data-id=\u00223dc9c74e2226464ab15c0c9201eebe3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223dc9c74e2226464ab15c0c9201eebe3c\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E We should measure welfare\u2019s success by how many people leave welfare because they have secured employment, not by how many are added because they see it as an easy way of living. Success in welfare is also dependent on paid employment or jobs being created for beneficiaries to undertake. More important, these outcomes must be achieved without dictating to the good citizens of New Zealand how they should raise their children or that all childcare centres are better than good, dedicated parents who passionately believe in quality home education that they themselves are more than capable of providing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E As a member of the Social Services Committee, I know that Paula Bennett\u2019s second phase of welfare reform seeks to alter categorical distinctions in the current benefit system, and attach employment availability expectations upon those who receive a benefit. Currently we have seven categories that all beneficiaries fall under. The proposed changes reduce these categories to just three: one, jobseeker support; two, sole parent support; and, three, supported living payment. The three new categories are designed to reinforce the work focus slogan that is attached to these welfare changes, which will ultimately affect any future eligibility criteria because there are strings attached to these three newly proposed categories. Guess what? It is work, work, and work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EThe Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill is designed to reinforce its primary focus of supporting beneficiaries to move into paid employment by introducing a suite of detailed rules for the new benefits that work collectively to create a much more active benefit system that encourages independence. New Zealand First supports this intention, but New Zealand First challenges the Minister for Social Development and this Government to say how they can ensure that it is done fairly and properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EThe new changes will not only seek to establish a work focus initiative within the benefit system but also include recipients who are either sick or disabled. There are absolutely no exemptions. But if the beneficiary is found to be unable to gain paid employment, then they are afforded a delay in the work focus initiative. In addition, payments will be temporarily stopped for beneficiaries who have arrest warrants that have been unresolved after 28 days of the incident. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EFurthermore, beneficiaries are also expected to undergo drug tests in order to meet the requirements to partake in training programmes. New Zealand First supports this too. Anyone in this category should see this as a tool to help him or her to be detoxed from drugs or to kick the habit. After all, at the end of his or her life, they will never regret not having passed one more test, not winning one more verdict, or not closing one more deal. Drug testing is mandatory, and failure to comply with the rules attracts penalties regarding benefit payments, even though not all beneficiaries will be drug tested. As if there were no societal double standard about how beneficiaries are perceived, this will create further inequality within our welfare system, where some beneficiaries are targeted and others are not. This will become problematic in the future and foster greater disharmony for New Zealanders, whether they receive a benefit or not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EThis may prove to be counterproductive if we examine the underlying intentions of the bill, which aims to improve social and economic outcomes for all beneficiaries. It also intends to incorporate measures that protect the interests of children, by encouraging parents to gain paid work and also increase their participation in programmes such as Well Child and early childhood education. Compulsory? I am sorry, but that is not a good approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First supports the overall goal of the bill in assisting welfare-dependent individuals to gain paid employment. However, we have reservations regarding job availability and the Government dictating how parents ought to raise their children. Our reservations are centred on practicality and how these changes will be administered. It has been established that the bill will adopt an active work-based approach, but how will the Government roll out new welfare reforms that are attached to expectations of being available to work in regard to people who are on the invalids benefit or domestic purposes benefit for the care for the sick? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EThe measures are drastic and forceful for New Zealanders who already have no choice and must do what they can with the variety of situations they must deal with on a day-to-day basis. Most beneficiaries already feel socially excluded. The proposed changes in this bill will further exacerbate inequality and expose beneficiaries to further scrutiny from the public and amongst themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EWith regard to drug testing of job seekers, how is the Minister going to incorporate supportive measures to ensure that treatment is available? More important, how will the Government determine who ought to be drug tested and who should not? That would require categorising beneficiaries with assumptions that they are all most likely taking drugs. It is highly counterproductive to be on drugs in the first place, but how will job seekers be afforded a platform to attain paid employment when the Government is doing very little to assist them? We need to emphasise the importance of obtaining employment to those who pass the work test and receive offers of paid employment. We also need to emphasise our commitment to ensuring that beneficiaries stay off drugs, by investing in initiatives that will help achieve this. Children will be better protected and have better chances in life if the Government is willing to invest more into helping beneficiaries who are on drugs to get off and stay off them. The way I see it is this: we are not simply investing in helping people to get off drugs; we are helping to secure a brighter future for the children who are affected and to improve their chances in life. Is that not worth fighting for?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb3cb108727847c8a74402e69d4f2145\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269ba866ba7a74232bc252ace31eaf963\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR\u003C/span\u003E: I am glad that you agree. Evidently, the new approach is focused on getting beneficiaries off welfare and into paid employment, but how many jobs is the Government going to create in order to accommodate requirements surrounding sole parents\u2014for example, that they work part-time when their youngest child is of school age and then full-time when their youngest child is 14 years? In what capacity will Work and Income assist in training and upskilling beneficiaries for \u201Cdesirable\u201D jobs? And how many resources are we going to roll out to complement these changes? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EOne of the most crucial and problematic issues with the bill concerns the State trying to dictate to parents how they ought to parent. We never know the love of a parent till we become parents ourselves. This bill in theory means the State is forcing parents to put their children through early childhood education by the age of 3. This will not only impose rules on parents that will conflict with their freedom of choice but also separate parents from their children. I have gone through the submissions, and an overwhelming majority of parents want to decide for themselves how they raise their children and when the appropriate time would be for them to be enrolled in early childhood education. This is a domain where the State needs to tread with caution, because the backlash will only worsen the situation and the intentions of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is committed to ensuring that people move from dependence on the State to a state of independence. We also believe that it is important for people to obtain and retain a sense of worth and self-esteem by making a contribution to their society. Can the Minister honestly say that she would be happy to clean toilets on the minimum wage, with five children to feed, because Work and Income is forcing her to accept paid employment? Can she honestly say that she would gain a sense of worth and self-esteem from being threatened with payment reduction or cancellation of benefit payments, even though she would be contributing to society by cleaning up their waste? This will not only encourage people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022731f744a35c24cc08478c19c7c0137c9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member, but her time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u00222a1fb66038df492dbd42c43bb3f2b869\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a1fb66038df492dbd42c43bb3f2b869\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill in its second reading. I do not want to be negative in my approach; in fact, I want to be quite positive. So I will not be talking about Labour doing nothing to stop fraud abuse in the welfare system, allowing it to go largely unchecked, or fudging the welfare fraud data to hide the problem of welfare abuse. It even shifted beneficiaries between different types of benefit, rather than stopping that and supporting them into work. Labour let the number of sickness beneficiaries increase from 33,000 in 1999 to 46,000 in June 2008, and the number on the invalids benefit increase from 53,000 to 85,000. I will not talk about those things, because they are negative statistics. They are the results of a previous Government, which said with all its intent that it was wanting to benefit the people of our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EInstead, I am going to talk about the purpose. We are investing in what people can do, not in what they cannot do. This bill introduces new benefit categories. It ensures a work-focused system. It introduces new social obligations and provides benefit payments to be stopped for those who are running from the police. We are fixing the system and investing in people\u2019s potential. The reforms we are making still hold on to the original intent of the purpose and principles, and my colleague Melissa Lee spoke about the editorial in the Dominion Post. It talked about the critics of this bill, who either have been misled and are not reading the details, or are misleading with untruths about the intent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe intent of these amendments is still true, supposedly, to the architects of the Social Security Act itself. If you read section 1A of the Social Security Act 1964, here is what the purpose says: \u201CThe purpose of this Act is to enable the provision of financial and other support as appropriate to help people to support themselves \u2026 to help people to find or retain paid employment;\u201D. In the \u201CPrinciples\u201D of that Act: \u201CEvery person exercising or performing a function, duty or power under this Act must have regard to the following general principles: (a) work in paid employment offers the best opportunity for people to achieve social and economic well-being:\u201D. This is the intent of the amendments and the changes that we are making. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI just want to address a couple of issues before I finish. There has been a lot of scaremongering about the sanctions that we are introducing. I wonder how many members on the other side\u2014when was the last time they were actually in a Work and Income office? I visited the M\u0101ngere Work and Income office. I spoke with some of the staff there. I asked questions about this. We are not about just protecting policy for policy\u2019s sake or for legislation and its changes; instead, we want to know whether this is making a difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI want to ask this question to the members over there on the other side. What happens in a Work and Income office when the bell is rung? What does that mean? I will tell you what that means. It means when the bell is rung that someone has been able to secure full-time employment. That is right. So the bell is ringing\u2014[Interruption] The bell is ringing, Mr O\u2019Connor. Why? Because a father who had been unemployed and on a benefit for 10 years finally found an opportunity for work and employment. The bell was rung. Why? [Interruption] That is right, Mr Prasad. Because a mother who had been on a domestic purposes benefit for 15 years found full-time employment. The bell was rung. Why? Because people found opportunity. The sanctions that people talk about are not the hardships that are being realised in the offices of Work and Income, in the places of hardship that have been talked about. Instead, people are realising that here are opportunities. Regarding work-test obligations, there was a mother who said for the first time she was asked what it would look like if she could work. She said that she was afraid. The office staff took her through a process where not only did she gain confidence but the bell was rung for her. So what this bill is doing is ringing the bell for opportunity, so that the very people we are talking about\u2014those who are vulnerable\u2014will realise their potential. Why? Because we are investing in what they can do, not in what they cannot do. I support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa8e5dec9a554b4abc2fed8ec9ddb7b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa8e5dec9a554b4abc2fed8ec9ddb7b3\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The bell should have rung for that member, Alfred Ngaro, a lot sooner, but I notice the bell did not even have to ring for that member. That member did not get a job. The bell did not ring for that member. I want to say to that member that when Labour was in Government there was no need to ring a bell. People had jobs. There was full employment\u2014the lowest unemployment in the world. Melissa Lee, who does not know the record of Labour\u2019s 9 years in Government, asked what Labour did. I say to Melissa Lee that people were in work. They were working. There was no need for the bell. That is some kind of Pavlovian experiment\u2014some kind of Pavlovian reinforcement\u2014that that member believes in. He should be ashamed of himself. I would not want to put people through having to listen to bells so that they can be in jobs. What do you think this is? A psychology laboratory? This is real people we are talking about. I hope they do not ring bells in the way that that member describes. The unemployed have become some kind of a joke\u2014some kind of a tool. So when they get a job, you ring a bell. Oh, come on! Give us a break\u2014give us a break. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThis Government has an awful record in any of the social areas\u2014any of them. It has been in Government for almost 5 years, and what has improved? Has housing improved? Has education improved? Has health improved? Has abuse prevention improved? Are children better off? No, they are not. So the record of that member\u2019s Government is awful, and people out there are suffering. Of course, they blame all of this on\u2014what? Oh, that is right, there was that global economic crisis\u2014the global economic crisis. Well, much of the difficulty has been made by that member\u2019s own Government and by the Minister for Social Development, who presides over this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe National Party has always had difficulty\u2014always had difficulties\u2014supporting beneficiaries, and this bill represents another example of how National members malign beneficiaries in order to reduce support for them. That is its track record, that is its modus operandi, and it is happening again. National would have destroyed the welfare State. It has tried, but the people in this country are smarter. By golly, National tries every day! That is all it does\u2014it tries to destroy it. It is getting clever in how it is doing that, but it is still trying to destroy it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EYou see, New Zealanders are fair-minded people, I say to those members sitting at the back there. They are fair-minded people who are happy for people to contribute to the nation\u2019s development when they are in work and in every other way, and for them to receive support when they need it. This Government is trying to do away with that social contract. But that is the nature of New Zealand society, and New Zealanders have understood that since 1935. Some of those members who have not been around very long do not actually appreciate that, but many others do. Most of us embrace it and are proud of the caring society that we have created, that we understand, and that we have developed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThat is not to say that cheats should not be brought to justice. Nobody on this side actually supports cheats. This is another cornerstone belief of the New Zealander: do not game the system. But, by golly, I know that that side there does not stand up to the rich who game the system; it is just the poor. But, anyway, that is another story for another debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe National Government and its previous manifestations have demonstrated their contempt for welfare beneficiaries and have always tried to put them down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb6c31ebc1a14516a3bd1557ef305dd1\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ee0e742c327462db3277e6026d51ff4\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: I will take the member through it. They have painted the beneficiaries as cheats, as criminals, as fraudsters. Remember the motorway that that member was against, because the criminals from the south would come to the west? Remember that, Melissa Lee? That member was maligning this group when she was campaigning for Mt Albert. So do not come here and cry false tears. That member was doing it, and that member\u2019s Government does it all the time. You see the prejudice it creates. Then it creates this notion of dependency. It has been created. Anybody on a benefit for over a year is now a dependant. Dependence is bad. It is pejorative, and we must do something about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThen it does this intellectually dishonest thing. This Minister has done this absolutely intellectually dishonest thing, which is to ask what the cost of welfare is. It is taking a leaf out of Nick Smith\u2019s awful, awful approach to ACC. At $67 billion, it is absolutely alarmist\u2014absolutely alarmist. Nobody has to pay for all the welfare costs and lifetime costs of any beneficiary up front, any more than ACC, but, no, that is how those members do it. Then they say \u201CWe are going to fix it with this investment approach.\u201D, but members on that side fool nobody. The mechanisms that that member\u2019s Government has used over the years are legendary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EDo you remember what Ruth Richardson did? She actually cut benefits. She took $1 billion, at a very early period, from the poor, and many of those poor people in our suburbs have suffered until today. That generation probably never recovered. They produce adolescents who are unprepared for the modern world and their children probably still suffer. That is National\u2019s record. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EDo you remember what Jenny Shipley did? She tried the Code of Social and Family Responsibility. That was just another code of social responsibility. New Zealanders rejected it. The Government put it in every house in New Zealand, and it was rejected in its entirety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b356c3c057a14cdc9704f045e5b944b7\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that\u2019s actually a better speech\u2014have another.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d280231d2d24f9194c42522f44f2f14\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: Nobody\u2014nobody was fooled by that. I say to that member there, the member for Rotorua, Mr Todd McClay, that nobody was fooled. But that member has not been around long enough to appreciate that. When it came to tax cuts, what did the Government do? It gave the poor a miserable few dollars. The member took for himself over $100 a week, but the poor did not. So here, where was the fairness in that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EIn the last Parliament and in this one, this Minister has embarked on a mission to punish the poor and those on limited incomes through a series of so-called welfare reforms. And those members who came recently to Parliament are really just the cheering mob. They are just the cheerleaders here. That is what they are. I noticed how they were pleading to the Minister a little while ago. She tried to sell the current policies as emerging from real concerns. She told her own story, and opened up the door for us to talk about that experience. But that fools nobody. The Minister cannot tell that story about herself and then demonstrate how she takes it away from others. That is exactly what has been done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThey reflect endlessly on the importance of evidence, and so do the select committees\u2014the importance of evidence-based policy and practice. Where is the evidence for this policy? Where is it? It does not exist. The English have tried it. What is the English experience? I ask of the members there, what did the English tell us in the select committee? That suicide rates are up and people are miserable, so there is no evidence about this in the UK experience. I say to the members to go and read the research evidence and they will find out. I want to say to this Minister that the deficit model will never achieve the goals of what her own party campaigned on\u2014a brighter future. This is the deficit model. These are people on the line, and then you come up with Draconian policies and you try to sell them as something the country needs. There is no fairness in that. There are no ethics in that. There is no evidence that that will actually work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EIf the provisions of this bill are such a great idea, then why is it that the overwhelming majority of submitters were against it? Why? Are they all wrong? They are all wrong? No, no\u2014nothing from my colleagues on that particular point. It was painful in the select committee to see those members on the select committee actually defend these provisions. It was sad, because all they could say was that they were trying to be fair. Here were people pouring their hearts out to the select committee about the impact of these provisions on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EMembers on that side talk about choice. What choice? They love talking about choice, but they do not give parents themselves the choice about how they are going to bring up their children. Why? Only because they happen to be on a benefit for a period. That is the only reason. Well, the Minister had a choice. The Minister had a choice to have a child, to go to university\u2014I know, I was there\u2014to have all of those benefits, but they are not there now. Why? What changed? What changed between that Minister\u2019s background as a student and as a sole parent, and the sole parents of today? What changed? I will tell you what changed. She joined the National Party and she became a member of Parliament. She got seduced by the ideology of that particular party. The submitters saw through this. One submitter said the provisions in this bill were another form of abuse\u2014another form of abuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad3051c3a2bd47f8a02dd4dc007b13bd\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Apologise like you did to the Families Commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d51b00acdb1c4a5f96cf53524d9aebe5\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: I will not apologise to that member or to those people who support him, because there is nothing to apologise for. That is what they said, that this was another form of abuse. The Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind\u2014hardly a radical organisation\u2014said that it believed that this focus on work would make life more difficult for the blind. The disabled sector said the same thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EFinally, the one thing we did not get in the select committee was what the assessment method is going to be. They could not present it to us. We did not see how these people are going to be assessed by outside contractors. It is another arm of the ideology of that Government\u2014privatise it and it will be good. It will not be. This is a terrible bill, and we will fight this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b37b5e54147846ffb3dea2811fd38215\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt the honourable member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u0022aba778c11e2541c3a3b64e37503f8a53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aba778c11e2541c3a3b64e37503f8a53\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Well, that was a hail of words from Rajen Prasad that did not seem to make much sense to many people in the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0d0fbf5d67a434fa15e0d41b75dc8ce\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t sound like a saint now. Not every saint\u2019s got a past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8469d9bb40a4adda43825ed8129968f\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014not that we had much more sense from that member either, I have to say. Choice and rights\u2014choice and rights\u2014are two words we heard a lot from that side of the House, but not much about the responsibility that should accompany them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4df0886e2654b1fb5e8e115d57d6928\u0022\u003EDr Rajen Prasad\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f00099cc35d485193ed07fe056b111e\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is what life is about. It is about rights and responsibilities. It is about getting that balance right. Arguably, over the 9 years of that member\u2019s Government that balance was right out of whack. We saw those numbers go through the roof. We saw people migrate off the unemployment benefit on to the sickness benefit and invalids benefit. I do not see the member talking too much about that. Perhaps it is about keeping them beholden because when they are beholden they are more inclined to vote for that particular party to get it back in Government. I do not know. A cynic might say that. A cynic might say that; I do not know. The member Jacinda Ardern made a comment about ghost chips\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d78fb291e894ff2a1b2ecec5cab6c03\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Ghost jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cebeea134ebb4df0a7baa6b6def66c6a\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or, rather, ghost jobs. That is right. Well, I can tell you I am one person who is internalising a very complicated situation in my head. All we hear from that side of the House\u2014and I can summarise the Labour Party approach by saying this\u2014is those members saying that there are no jobs out there, and yet they vote against every single effort of this National-led Government to grow the economy. There are no jobs, but they do not want to support economic policies that will help grow the economy. It is a tough time, with the global financial crisis and the Canterbury earthquakes. They will have convenient memory lapses when it suits them and they will pull that one out of the back pocket when it does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThey also say that there are too many people on welfare, and yet they will vote against every measure that this Government is putting in place to support people into work. They say that people want work, but they vote against every initiative that is about getting them into it. Do not let me hear from that side of the House that what they were doing was getting it all right, because it was not. This Government has been brave enough to make the sorts of changes that make sure that people are work-ready, that make sure that people have the appropriate childcare so that young mothers can get out into work. We are making sure that we support the most vulnerable young people who are on a collision course to an adult benefit and ensuring that they have got the wraparound support, the knowledge, and the mentoring that they require to get them into work. We will hear again that there are ghost jobs, that there are no jobs. Well, I say to you that there are plenty of jobs. Listen to what the IMF has to say about the economic policies of this Government getting us back on track to an economy that ultimately creates the jobs that people need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party approach\u2014and I would have to throw its friends in the watermelon patch into the mix\u2014is very much about its own ambition to be in Government, in my view. It wants the economy to fail, and it is quite happy to see those numbers go up, because then it can say: \u201COh, no, vote for us, because we\u2019ve got all the answers.\u201D Well, actually, the New Zealand public have woken up to that, and they wholeheartedly embrace the changes that this Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill involves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EI just want to touch very briefly, if I can, on one aspect of the social obligations that I think will make a lot of difference, and that is the drug-testing provision. There are a number of people in New Zealand on welfare who have problems with drugs. Drug use should not be a barrier to work. I say if it is good enough for those out there working in the New Zealand workforce to be drug-free, it is good enough for those who are on welfare, supported by the State, to also meet that obligation to be drug-free. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003ELet us not forget in this equation the value of work. There is value in work, and no matter what that work is, I say that people are better off being in that work than being reliant on the State. There is no dignity in that. This bill is about providing all the mechanisms they need to be in work. I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022af73437fa163432eb8b7f4535217d05b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af73437fa163432eb8b7f4535217d05b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand the next call is a split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc87a2c64720489798caa49e2b4e3c02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc87a2c64720489798caa49e2b4e3c02\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to take a short call, as I am no longer on the Social Services Committee. When the Government began beating the drums for its welfare reform legislation, Radio Samoa in Auckland picked up the issue and started discussing this on its talkback shows. The Samoan community, like all the Pacific communities, are people who are proud about their family and have a strong work ethic. Thousands of callers a week called in and hammered consistently, following the views by the Government, the need for greater personal responsibility. There was a unanimous voice from callers on that programme that any Samoan on the benefit ought to get off the benefit immediately. There was a strong sense almost of shame: if any of our people were on the benefit, that was wrong and they needed to get off it. That was how it was, based on what I would say are dog whistle politics used as part of this welfare reform. So instead of supporting those in need, we turned on those in need and started attacking them. I suspect that that was the same throughout New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EAs the dutiful MP for M\u0101ngere, I felt it was my duty to talk to the community through the radio waves and through community meetings about what this was all about. I reminded the community that this Government has now experienced the worst economic record in 51 years. It has the highest unemployment rate in 13 years\u20146.9 percent as of the end of last year, or 175,000 people. The Pacific and M\u0101ori unemployment numbers are now at double digits, after being, under a Labour Government, at a single digit. This Government, despite its many promises, has failed to rebalance our economy, and now we have a current account deficit that has risen to 5 percent of GDP, our exports fell last year to $1.3 billion, and our international liabilities have worsened, now at $150 billion and 72 percent of GDP. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI think that when you explain the thrust of what this Government is doing, people gradually begin to understand. You see, they were suckered in when the mantra that this Government used in introducing its welfare reform was that it would have an unrelenting focus on work\u2014an unrelenting focus on work. Despite the smarty one-liners and short-term headlines, we know, and the community out in New Zealand knows, that this Government has no long-term solution to fix New Zealand\u2019s economic woes. It continues to mismanage New Zealand\u2019s economy with these short-term, short-sighted gimmicks. Time and time again in the first reading leading up to this second reading, Government members said this Social Services (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill was about their unrelenting focus on work, yet nothing in this bill addresses the three main barriers to work. How many jobs does this bill create? None, I say. What support is given to parents for childcare costs? None, I say. What training support is given to match those without skills to jobs that require high-level skills? None, I say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EWe heard from the submitters that this bill was more about an unrelenting focus on attacking children, attacking motherhood, and attacking single women who are mothers. One of the submitters who stands out in my mind is Charlotte Murray, a single mother with two children. She said her main job is raising her 2-year-old and 5-year-old children. She said forcing her into work is not good for her children. Forcing a mother into work when a child reaches 3 years, 5 years, or 6 years will cause stress and will harm her children. And the Office of the Children\u2019s Commissioner backs that up. In its submission it said that where sanctions are imposed on beneficiaries with children, who suffers? It is the children. So we should not be believing the Government\u2019s one-liners that this is an unrelenting focus on work. This is an unrelenting attack on children and motherhood. The Salvation Army\u2019s state of the nation report of earlier this year, She\u2019ll be Right, reaffirms that under this Government, child poverty has worsened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022 data-id=\u002292fef2efae8d48a39ed5b7a18d785407\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292fef2efae8d48a39ed5b7a18d785407\u0022\u003EMOJO MATHERS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party opposes this bill, the Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill. We believe that it is fundamentally flawed in its approach. Imposing sanctions for failing to comply with what the bill terms \u201Csocial obligations\u201D means that parents and caregivers will be coerced into adopting specific parenting practices, even when it is not in their child\u2019s best interests. A parent may have a child who, for whatever reason, is simply not ready to attend early childhood education for 15 hours a week. It may be that their child has a disability. It may be that their child has poor health, or they cannot find a centre that will meet the social and cultural needs of their child. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EWe also believe that it is both unethical and counter-productive to enforce these social obligations by cutting the benefit by up to 50 percent. We fully agree with the advice from the Ministry of Health that imposing financial sanctions will cause children harm and that there are more effective and more constructive approaches to enable better uptake of primary health care. The other huge area of concern we have with this bill is how it will impact on disabled people and those with chronic illnesses and mental illnesses. The reality is that in New Zealand there are many people with disabilities who want to work and who have tried for years and years to get suitable employment and constantly get knocked back because of systematic failures, because of negative attitudes around disability, and because of assumptions about what disabled people can or cannot do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003ETake Jack, for example. Jack is profoundly deaf. He is unskilled but fit and capable. He has applied for many jobs over many years, and he has been constantly told: \u201CWe cannot take you on, for health and safety reasons.\u201D This is the stark reality of trying to find a job in New Zealand for many deaf and disabled people. After more than 20 years on a benefit Jack was so desperate and so frustrated that he sat down in the middle of the floor of a Work and Income office, crossed his arms, and announced: \u201CI want to work. I want a job. I am not leaving until you find me a job.\u201D The staff flapped their hands and ran around in a fluster, but then they actually found him a job in the catering industry, and 2 years later Jack has that job and is proud of it. But he should not have had to take such drastic steps to get Work and Income to do something constructive about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EThere are many people like Jack who want to work but are being constantly knocked back. Placing yet more obligations on people like Jack to look for work and be work-ready is cruel and ignores the reality of the barriers to employment that disabled people face, no matter how hard they try or how work-ready they are. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00220395dd0763ce4976b941295e626b7dc3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220395dd0763ce4976b941295e626b7dc3\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Although I am no longer a member of the Social Services Committee, I was for 4 years and until quite recently a member, as a result of which I had the opportunity late last year and early this year to work with my colleagues on this bill, the Social Services (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill. I want to correct Dr Prasad. It is fundamentally dishonest to suggest that all submitters were against the bill. They were not. But, more important, I want to remind him that this was a major campaign issue in the 2011 general election. We campaigned hard on it, and I am absolutely confident that this bill enjoys very strong public support from throughout the country, because there is a very strong desire to see everybody who can be supported into work get that support. The unrelenting focus of the bill, as Mr Sio has just reminded us, is on achieving exactly that end. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to say to Asenati Lole-Taylor is just that I believe that all honest work is inherently valuable, and although some is work that a lot of us would shy away from and that some of us are fortunate enough not to have to do, I have nothing but respect for those who are working on some of those humble and at times very, very unpleasant jobs. I am sure that every member of this House would want to support those people, and not in any way undermine their efforts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI believe that this is a bill that was already very good. The select committee has worked incredibly hard and has made it even better. It is in the national interest, and I have great pleasure in supporting it at its second reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments recommended by the Social Services Committee by majority be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c9c3cbccb5094a628fa42bc3b81dd419\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EQuestion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226deb58b0844e4fc6952d7281f61fe76a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000554\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.01 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022308a1e9a0ac2455386b8937fb84d3422\u0022\u003EMarine Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c6df24a4554f418a9fc0c4dfbdc32a78\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002234fcf24016fd4e09b4d2a1e072cf1ed8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234fcf24016fd4e09b4d2a1e072cf1ed8\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Justice) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Transport: I move, That the Marine Legislation Bill be now read a second time. I would like to thank the chair and members of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee for their work and unanimous support of the bill. I would also like to thank everyone who has taken time to make a submission to the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThis is an omnibus bill that amends the Maritime Transport Act 1994 and the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act 2012 in order to promote maritime safety and to protect the marine environment. Amendments to the Maritime Transport Act will provide for local regulation of maritime activities by regional councils, enable the implementation of four international maritime conventions, and make other miscellaneous changes to improve the clarity, effectiveness, and enforceability of provisions in the Act. The bill also amends the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act to include new provisions in relation to some discharges and the dumping of waste and other matter from ships, and to ensure that New Zealand continues to act consistently with its international obligations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWith regard to local regulation of maritime activity, this bill replaces and updates measures currently contained in the Local Government Act 1974. The bill enables regional councils to continue to regulate maritime safety and maritime-related activities in their regions and provides for a stronger regime for the management of port, harbour, and navigation safety. The bill establishes clear duties and powers in respect of port operations to support and complement the New Zealand Port and Harbour Marine Safety Code 2004. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe majority of submissions from local authorities supported the current division of central and local government maritime safety responsibilities and sought to clarify that the bill would not expand local responsibilities. The Transport and Industrial Relations Committee recommended amendments that clarify that the bill will not create new responsibilities for regional councils, but will instead outline the functions that a regional council can undertake when appropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe committee has also recommended amendments to give regional councils greater flexibility in procedure for setting fees and charges related to the maritime functions. This change will allow councils to use the procedures in the Local Government Act 2002, rather than continuing an existing requirement that fees for these functions be set only by by-laws. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe bill also enables New Zealand to bring four international maritime conventions into full force: the protocol of 1996 to amend the Convention on Limitation of Liability for Maritime Claims 1976, the International Convention on Civil Liability for Bunker Oil Pollution Damage 2001, the Protocol Relating to Intervention on the High Seas in Cases of Pollution by Substances other than Oil 1973, and the Manila amendments to the International Convention on Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers 1978. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe grounding of the Rena on Astrolabe Reef in October 2011 and the subsequent 350-tonne oil spill highlighted the need to update New Zealand\u2019s liability limit for maritime claims under international conventions. This bill will more than double the current liability limit for shipowners. It also provides a mechanism for giving effect to future increases to the limit. This will allow for a rapid implementation of a further 51 percent increase in liability limits, which is set to become available in 2015 for countries that are party to the conventions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe Manila amendments to the International Convention on Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers 1978 include a blood-alcohol limit for certain on-duty merchant seafarers. The bill gives effect to this measure, which will help to ensure that masters, officers, and other seafarers are fit and able to perform their safety, security, and environmental duties. Further miscellaneous amendments to the Maritime Transport Act included in this bill will improve enforcement, modernise penalty levels, and clarify the application of the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe bill also amends the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act to transfer the regulation of dumping waste and discharging harmful substances in the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf from offshore installations and mineral mining facilities on board ships from Maritime New Zealand to the Environmental Protection Authority. The transfer of certain discharge and dumping regulatory functions will ensure that applications for marine dumping and discharges are considered in their entirety by the Environmental Protection Authority, thereby eliminating process duplication and providing certainty that the comprehensive environmental assessment requirements will be met. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe Transport and Industrial Relations Committee recommended changes to clarify and improve the bill in the following ways. The definitions of \u201Cmining activity\u201D and \u201Cmining discharge\u201D have been widened to ensure that the prospecting stage of mineral mining projects is captured and to ensure that hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, is subject to the legislation. A new section has been added to better clarify the interaction and relation between the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act and the Maritime Transport Act in terms of the regulation and the discharge of harmful substances. This will more accurately reflect the jurisdiction New Zealand has over the continental shelf beyond the exclusive economic zone. The bill now allows for information sharing between the Environmental Protection Authority and Maritime New Zealand. This will ensure a clear interaction between the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act and the Maritime Transport Act, and provide certainty that environmental effects are properly managed. Finally, the bill now provides clear transitional arrangements for the applications and consents of existing discharge management plans and dumping permits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ETo sum up, the proposed changes will promote the effective management of the marine environment by enhancing existing measures in the Maritime Transport Act. In closing, I would like to once again thank the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee members for the work on this bill. This bill will provide an updated and improved framework for maritime safety and marine environmental protection. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022e367556903634be6b944fa7d6c2a635a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e367556903634be6b944fa7d6c2a635a\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in support of the Marine Legislation Bill, which is a largely technical omnibus bill that is probably worthy of the level of passion we saw from the Minister of Justice in her contribution. It was a very accurate representation of the legislation and of the select committee process. It was perhaps not an entirely accurate representation of some of the issues behind the bill, of course, and I will get to those later on in my contribution. I would like to thank the officials for their diligent work in assisting the select committee in what was a very technical piece of legislation that required a lot of technical advice, and I would also like to thank my new colleagues\u2014[Interruption] No, I was not there but I am still going to thank them; that is the kind of guy I am. I did make some brief visits to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee and now I have the pleasure of being a permanent member of that committee, so I would like to thank my new colleagues on that committee for the good work that they put into this piece of legislation as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis Marine Legislation Bill is an omnibus bill of two parts. Part 1 seeks to amend the Maritime Transport Act 1994 and Part 2 seeks to amend the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act 2012, which, of course, was passed through this Parliament merely weeks before this piece of legislation was introduced to make amendments to that piece of legislation. I do not know whether that is a reflection of the shambolic approach that this Government takes to making laws\u2014that merely weeks later it needed to fix up something that it had only just passed\u2014but them\u2019s the facts and we worked hard to try to tidy up some of the Government\u2019s shoddy work. This bill amends the Maritime Transport Act \u201Cto provide for local regulation of maritime safety and maritime-related activities by regional councils; to regulate alcohol consumption by seafarers; to implement four international maritime conventions; to create offences and prescribe penalties for the improper operation of ships; and to make other miscellaneous changes.\u201D It amends the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act \u201Cto make new provisions in relation to discharges and dumping, and to ensure that New Zealand continues to act consistently with two international conventions to which it is party;\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe bill implements a number of conventions. The Convention on Limitation of Liability for Maritime Claims is currently only partially applied in New Zealand, meaning maritime liability is half what it could be for loss of life, injury, property damage, or other damage or loss. This bill enacts the convention fully and gives it the full force of law. The International Convention on Civil Liability for Bunker Oil Pollution Damage 2001 is fully implemented in this bill, as well. It sets up a separate liability regime for fuel oil pollution, meaning claims would not be limited by the Convention on Limitation of Liability for Maritime Claims. The International Convention Relating to Intervention on the High Seas in Cases of Oil Pollution Casualties 1969 has a protocol that includes substances beyond those that New Zealand law currently applies to, so the bill extends coverage to the substances in the protocol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe bill also introduces a 0.05 grams per 100 millilitres of blood-alcohol limit on all seafarers, and this is perhaps one of the more curious aspects of this piece of legislation. Although the Government has accepted an international convention that states 0.05 is an appropriate and acceptable alcohol limit for seafarers, the Government has continued to abjectly refuse the concept that that is an appropriate limit for car drivers. It seems odd that when only 80 vessels will be affected by this change, and it is estimated that there are just 10 incidents a year that will be affected by this new regulation, the Government is so quick to move on this change to blood-alcohol limits when it is not prepared to act on the 34 percent of fatal car accidents that have been linked to alcohol. It is utterly inconsistent from this Government to acknowledge that 0.05 is an appropriate blood-alcohol limit for operating a vessel, and yet it refuses to act on something that has got the potential to save far more lives and do far more good than simply implementing this for seafarers alone. But that is not the most curious aspect of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe most curious part is that it took so long for the Government to actually implement the conventions that this legislation allows us to sign up to. In particular, the one that most New Zealanders will be mindful of is the International Convention on Civil Liability for Bunker Oil Pollution Damage, or the bunker convention, as it is more common known. There was a discussion document all the way back in 2007. Regional councils received a discussion document from the then Labour Government about implementing that convention. But after this Government came into power, everything went silent. In the briefing to the incoming Minister in 2008 there was a recommendation that he implement and sign up to the International Convention on Civil Liability for Bunker Oil Pollution Damage and to a number of changes to the Convention on Limitation of Liability for Maritime Claims. Legislation was prepared and ready to go by 2009, but that bill sat on the Minister\u2019s desk. In fact, it was lucky if it was sitting on the Minister\u2019s desk\u2014it disappeared to some distant filing cabinet, never to be thought of again. So while Steven Joyce was planning his uneconomic, unaffordable roads of national significance, a little bill waited. While Steven Joyce was running focus groups and running scared from doing the right thing by lowering the legal blood-alcohol level for drivers, a little bill waited. [Interruption] They have woken up. And while Steven Joyce was busy fixing up the mistakes of his colleagues in this shambles of a Government, a little bill waited and hoped that one day somebody, somewhere, in the Government, would actually pay attention to it and introduce it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWell, that day finally came. The day when somebody in the Government actually thought: \u201CGosh! We really ought to progress this Marine Legislation Bill.\u201D That day came on Wednesday, 5 October 2011, to be precise, at around about 2.20 a.m. That is when the Rena ran aground on the Astrolabe Reef. The ship was carrying 1,368 containers, eight of which contained hazardous materials, as well as 1,700 tonnes of heavy fuel and 200 tonnes of marine diesel oil. All of a sudden the Marine Legislation Bill became very important. But it was all too late. How late? About $50 million late. We needed this bill passed before the Rena ran aground, not afterwards. If National had managed to carry out that simple task, the New Zealand taxpayer would not have been left in the position of having to fork out the lion\u2019s share of $50 million to pay for the clean-up of the Rena grounding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWhen the New Zealand Shipping Federation came to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, it approached the bill thus. The federation expressed its concern regarding the haste with which the bill was being progressed. It understood the reason, which was that the Government was attempting to quickly close the door after the horse had bolted, but it said: \u201CThis merely serves to compound our frustration, as it demonstrates that the maritime sector is regarded as a low-priority sector within official circles.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe haste with which the bill is being progressed, as far as the New Zealand Shipping Federation was concerned, was quite understandable, because there was, in fact, a time limit, which was 1 January 2013. In order to meet our convention requirements regarding alcohol limits, we were supposed to have had this legislation passed by 1 January 2013. I do not know whether it is a continuation of the shambles of this Government or whether it is the walking shambles that is David Bennett, but somehow or another the Government has failed, again, to meet its international obligations by failing to get this legislation passed in time. Mercifully, I do not think we will suffer any penalty as a result. But this bill is a good bill. It is a technical bill, but one that is very important for protecting our coastline and our environment. It is just a pity the Government could not get off its chuff and do this sooner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0f2353092094df5ba2b8cb15f6c8dc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0f2353092094df5ba2b8cb15f6c8dc6\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E This Marine Legislation Bill is a good bill, which all parties in this House apart from probably the Green Party are going to support. It was very disappointing to see that last speaker, Iain Lees-Galloway, trying to politicise it. I know he is a new member to this House and has little experience, but he needs to actually understand how you work together with other parties. I must admit that the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022000d635a87a44b4893e0f39cdc856e51\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: I hear he\u2019s on the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e88097f2399483e8619871e1cc2476d\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: He is not on the committee. He is a recent member on the committee. He got promoted to the committee from something or other that I think was meeting at 8 o\u2019clock in the morning; now he is headed to a full meeting. He is learning, but it is very disappointing to hear that member say those things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI want to just make one point before I go on to a few points about the bill, and that is that the Labour Government did not put that convention through. The Labour Government at that time was so busy trying to sort out the shambles around election laws and trying to save its butt around illegalities in the electoral system that it had promoted that it did not put this bill up. It is rich for the Labour Party to come into this House now and say that the National Government should have done it. The Labour Government had it on its books and did not do it, and the reason it did not do it is that it was trying to buy votes in an election, as it always does, and it did not work. So those members should not come into this House and now blame the National Government for this. The Labour Party is the party at fault. It was the one that was in Government and should have done it at that time. It did not, and it is a bit rich for that member to come in here\u2014I know he is a new member, but it is a bit rich for him to come in and say those things at this time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis is good legislation. This is legislation that even the Green Party and the National Party worked together on. We worked together and got a solution around fracking and things like that, and it would be good to see the Green Party actually support this legislation today. But I am sure it will find some minute detail that makes no difference and that will be its reason to not support the legislation, and that will be very disappointing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EBut there are some big parts to this bill. There is another part that the last speaker mentioned, and that is the alcohol requirement. OK, it is at a lower level than the driving requirement, but it is for only 80 vessels, as that member identified. The vast bulk of vessels, or seafarers, you could say, are not covered. This covers only commercial seafarers in that sense. It relates to international seafarers\u2019 boats that have international crews coming in and out on a commercial basis, so it is consistent with that. That member was making reference to things that are not the case. It is not an approach that is different from what we do in the sense of our roading network, because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c383aab540b0412fad802ef259dec400\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve got one for the roads and one for the sea. What\u2019s the difference?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b308a697c4440a5b03c3972ac614ce6\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It is because a lot of people on the sea do not actually have any limit, because there is a zero limit for all other sea captains, unless you are in a commercial enterprise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E The other thing I wanted to go through was the role of regional councils\u2014I think this is a very important part of this Marine Legislation Bill\u2014having the ability to set some of these rules around harbour masters and the rules and regulations around their maritime activities in certain areas. It is a good example of how Government can work with local bodies. There were some submissions from different regional councils that felt that we should do it in different ways, and I know the Deputy Speaker represents an area that has strong views as well. In the end this is a good balance where we are showing that central government and local government are working together. So I think that is another good part of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EEffectively this bill does change two major pieces of legislation, and it does it in a way that shows members of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee have worked hard to try to accommodate the interests of all parties and reflect the advice we received from officials. I look forward to this bill passing through the House. We look forward to the Labour Party actually supporting this bill, not only in vote but in spirit, in the way that the select committee worked, and that would be good to see. It would be good to see this bill pass through the House unanimously. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd994f4c15844f97a8fb759caa7c87a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd994f4c15844f97a8fb759caa7c87a3\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I take great pleasure in rising to speak on the Marine Legislation Bill. Talk about having something handed to you on a platter. All of the work had been done for this bill by the previous Labour Government. It had taken a number of years to get to the point where this legislation was written and ready to go. By the end of 2008, of course, we had an election. There it sat on the new Minister\u2019s desk. Here was something that could have been implemented immediately, but, no, National reverted to type and said that this was an idea from the Labour Party, therefore it was not going to give it any credence whatsoever. It took a shipwreck, it took a disaster, for somebody to go back and say: \u201CGosh, Minister of Transport. Ooh! Were you meant to do something about this? What\u2019s this about a convention? Was the Minister meant to do something about this? What\u2019s our responsibility here?\u201D. Even then, having all of the work done\u2014everything prepared, legislation ready to go, everything handed to the Minister on a platter\u2014he still did not act for another 4 years. Even then, it is late. It should have been in by 1 January this year. Even then, the Minister could not get it right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ESo for David Bennett to whinge and moan about us, and my colleague Iain Lees-Galloway before me, and saying that it is a bit rich of the Labour Party to get up and complain, I am sorry, but there needs to be some responsibility sheeted home for why this was not managed earlier. The Government has had 4 years, and it has not been able to implement something that was all done and dusted and ready to go. We will continue to make that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EWe are supporting the bill. We wish it had been given the chance by this Government to pass before the Rena disaster, but the other thing that is of concern\u2014well, let us just say we welcome it coming anyway. Fortunately, if there are not going to be international penalties for us in getting it in late, then that is well and good, but it is no thanks to the assiduousness of the Minister. Due to the Government\u2019s failure to ratify the international conventions, when the Rena crashed, of course, we know that it was liable to pay only $11.3 million of the clean-up costs for the Crown, which ended up being over $50 million. Although the Government was able to negotiate that up to about halfway, it would not have been necessary for the Government to go through those negotiations had it subscribed to these international conventions in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI suppose there is one other thing that I want to reflect on just briefly. One of the parts of this bill sets a blood-alcohol limit of 0.05 grams for people in charge of ships and for people sailing ships, but the Government cannot bring itself to do that for people driving lethal weapons on our roads. I do not understand the difference. I do not understand why there should be one standard for maritime safety and quite another for road safety. More New Zealanders are going to be travelling on our roads than are ever going to be travelling on vessels covered by this legislation. I would ask one of the Ministers in the House\u2014well, the Minister in the House, the Minister of Justice\u2014to consider that again. Do not be afraid to revisit legislation on alcohol limits, because I do not think the Minister got it right last time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EDo not be afraid to revisit things, because it is perfectly clear that Amy Adams has had to revisit a few things in the course of developing this legislation and contributing to it. In fact, there are 37 pages of amendments to the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act that have been introduced in this legislation, even though National passed that bill only about a month ago. From one shambles to another\u2014although at the same time I do say to Minister Collins that should she choose to revisit blood-alcohol levels, I am sure there would be a number of people around this country who would be prepared to welcome that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EAmy Adams has brought forward 37 pages of amendments to a bill that she clearly did not get right a month ago. The primary aim of the amendments, which I do support\u2014and this is where I am particularly interested\u2014is to move the powers from Maritime New Zealand to the new Environmental Protection Authority. The Environmental Protection Authority is a regulatory body whose responsibility it will be under these amendments to monitor and regulate around waste dumping. The amendments go on to implement the International Convention for the Prevention of Pollution from Ships as modified by the protocol of 1978, and to implement the 1996 protocol to the Convention on the Prevention of Marine Pollution by Dumping of Wastes and Other Matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe quality of our oceans is something that should be of concern to all of us. The original exclusive economic zone legislation was weak. It was inadequate, and 37 pages of amendments go some way to providing the Environmental Protection Authority with its regulatory oversight, the strength to monitor, to comment on, and to regulate around waste dumping in our oceans. When people get out to sea and they do not think anybody can see them, they think it is fine to release waste into the vast oceans and it will just wash away. But anybody who has travelled around the Pacific can tell you it does not wash away, it washes up\u2014it washes up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThese amendments raise the question of why the Minister for the Environment had to dump the substantive changes to the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Bill in Supplementary Order Paper 100 on Parliament after the Local Government and Environment Committee consideration, rather than including them in the bill so they could be consulted on and people could submit on them. It would also go some way, perhaps, to explaining why that exclusive economic zone legislation was rushed back from the select committee, as the Marine Legislation Bill had to be passed this year. Given that it contained these amendments, it could not be put into Parliament before the exclusive economic zone legislation was passed. With that confusing set of consequences and time lines it is clear that Ministers around this area, whether they be of transport or for the environment, are clearly not across the detail of the job, and not across the urgency of this job. Having been critical of the Ministers in this regard, I still support the legislation. We wish it had happened years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022 data-id=\u00226f8b6be381ae47e39e367ba79df127d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f8b6be381ae47e39e367ba79df127d1\u0022\u003EDENISE ROCHE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It is my privilege to speak to the second reading of the Marine Legislation Bill. I take this call, and I acknowledge that I am speaking on behalf of my colleague Gareth Hughes, who has been the Green MP who has been ushering this bill through its first reading and the select committee process. He will no doubt have a lot more to say on this bill as it reaches the next phase, the Committee of the whole House, and the subsequent third reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThe Greens will be supporting this bill. Just to recap, this is an omnibus bill that primarily amends two Acts: the Maritime Transport Act 1994 and the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act 2012\u2014the EEZ Act; the one that was referred to previously as having 37 amendments to it. It is an omnibus bill that will also enable New Zealand to accede to three international maritime conventions, the amendments implement changes to another international maritime convention to which New Zealand is a party, and it makes changes relating to the making of maritime and marine protection rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge and give thanks to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee members, to the officials, and also to the submitters. I note that there were 48 submitters from a wide range of organisations, including Local Government New Zealand, regional councils across the country, the merchant officers\u2019 guild, shipping companies, oil companies, port companies, and also individuals. My colleague Gareth assures me that the select committee worked cooperatively to bring this bill to the House with the amendments that have been agreed to in the report. Personally, I would like to see a lot more of that, so I encourage the Government to think about other bills that are sensible and solutions-focused, that protect our special places, and that support our people and are just\u2014quite unlike the previous bill that was in the House, the Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill. Then we could look forward to more cooperation in the House and much better decision-making. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EBut I go back to the Marine Legislation Bill. This is the bill that will become the Act that we should have had in place at the time that the Rena crashed into Astrolabe Reef and leaked debris and oil on to our beaches and into our marine environment. At the first reading of this bill in the House, my colleague Gareth Hughes said that the Rena disaster and aftermath shocked New Zealanders\u2014and I agree with him\u2014and that our people were particularly shocked by the Government\u2019s initial lack of response, its failure to act with speed, and the lack of urgency, expertise, and infrastructure that it supplied to deal with the environmental degradation the wreck was causing. Gareth also highlighted in the first reading that the cost of cleaning up after the Rena was borne by the taxpayer to the tune of around $130 million because we were not adequately protected by our own laws and because we had not acceded through legislation to three international conventions that would have protected our taxpayers when this accident occurred. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EWe do support this bill. In particular we support the bill\u2019s positive changes, which I will get to soon, but, unfortunately, there are still within the bill some weaknesses that we raised at the first reading and which remain unaddressed. No doubt we will get to them during the Committee of the whole House. The bill does not go far enough to protect New Zealand against the environmental and economic risks of an oil spill. Even with this bill in place, it is likely that the taxpayer will still have to cover some of the cost of potential future marine disasters. For example, the bill does not sign up New Zealand to the International Oil Pollution Compensation Fund\u2019s supplementary fund. New Zealand is already a party to the 1992 fund. But it is not a party to the supplementary fund, which would allow us to access over $1 billion for compensation and clean-up if there were a spill from a tanker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThe Government has also failed to adequately fund the Oil Pollution Fund. In the case of oil drilling, the Government should be increasing the amount of insurance required for companies that wish to engage in oil drilling. The Gulf of Mexico spill cost $40 billion. However, our Government is happy to allow oil-drilling companies to have insurance of only $30 million. Who pays the difference? The Government still does not have adequate oil spill protection within the country. I note that this bill does not introduce compulsory shipping lanes, which would go some way towards highlighting where the super-highways are on the sea and could even be used in my part of the country\u2014where I live in the Hauraki Gulf\u2014to steer ships away from the endangered Bryde\u2019s whales that live in the Hauraki Gulf. As I said in my speech in the first reading of this bill in the House, those whales, although endangered, have a tendency to live near the surface and so are more likely to be hit by ships, particularly when the ships are going fast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E We do support this bill, though. In particular we support the changes that outline the responsibilities of regulating maritime safety as a function of a regional council, and the amendments that involve more comprehensive details for duties and requirements of harbour masters. We support the new section allowing for enforcement officers or constables to exercise the certain same powers as harbour masters and to restrict this exercise to occasions of special request or authority by a regional council. So, basically, we support the regional councils having some autonomy here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003ELike the other parties in this House we agree with the alcohol limits that should be set for seafarers and, again, we do note that they are set at a lower level than those for the driver of a car. We also support the new section to create an offence of, and prescribe a penalty for, the overloading of a ship, and to allow consistency with the International Convention on Load Lines. This is an extremely important piece to have in this bill, as unstable loads or overloaded ships are at risk of further capsizing. We are also pleased with the proposed insertion of a new definition of \u201Cmining discharge\u201D to ensure that hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, would be subject to this legislation, and I think that is a major achievement. Although fracking is not actually occurring in our oceans at present, it is good to see that this legislation is being futureproofed if an application were lodged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EOur oceans are under threat. However, we believe this bill goes some way towards supporting some positive changes. It is curious, however, that this bill comes with 37 amendments to the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act, which was passed less than a year ago, which kind of highlights the sloppiness of the Government\u2019s process of creating that bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EHowever, in summary, we support this bill. We think it is a good bill. It has been improved through the select committee process. It does not go far enough in terms of protecting New Zealand\u2019s waters or the taxpayer from liability, but it does start a process of improving things for our oceans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u002215c8a620abc74263b0be473f255abb73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215c8a620abc74263b0be473f255abb73\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I am really pleased to take a call on this love-fest bill. I am sorry; it is not that at all. It is the Maritime Legislation Bill. I just acknowledge the fact that this bill is supported across the House, although it is a little bit like Clayton\u2019s support\u2014\u201Cbeatings will continue until morale improves\u201D support, if you like. But none the less, there is support across the House. As a new member of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, I just acknowledge the committee\u2019s work. I have only recently joined the committee, as deputy chairman. It has an excellent chairman in David Bennett, and it is a very hard-working committee, embodied in its name\u2014it is a very industrial committee. I just acknowledge its work, and, of course, the work of the respective Ministers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003ESuccessful economic policy really does embody successful environmental policy, and of this National-led Government, this National Party is the one party that actually marries up those two important factors successfully. We hear a lot about it from over in the \u201Cwatermelon patch\u201D, but it is just some sort of crazy ideology\u2014a little bit of printing money, and a bit of green stuff thrown in there every now and then. But this National-led Government gets that balance right, and this bill really does embody that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThe Maritime Transport Act and the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act are amended in this bill, and the changes include changes to the oversight of port, harbour, and navigation safety; implementation of international maritime conventions and protocols; changes related to the making of maritime and marine protection rules; and transferring the regulation of the discharge and dumping of waste, essentially. This is all very sensible stuff. The changes in this bill will provide greater certainty and reduce compliance costs, which I think we can all agree is a very positive addition; increased efficiency and avoiding duplication in process; enhanced management of the environmental effects and impacts; and, of course, the opportunity to improve public and iwi consultation. I just want to also acknowledge the fact that this bill will provide for and empower the regional councils to set about having a greater involvement and a more effective involvement, I believe, because regional councils are people who do know their harbours and waterways better than anyone. I think that is infinitely sensible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThe bill goes on to make some fairly serious improvements, and creates the sort of clarity and effectiveness that is absolutely warranted in very, very busy waterways. Way back when\u2014I cannot remember how long now; it seems like about five lifetimes ago now\u2014I was a naval officer. Rest assured, members of the House. There are plenty of big sharp things floating around out there in the sea, and when things go wrong, as we found with the Rena, things get very, very concerning for all parties concerned, onshore and offshore. This bill creates an effectiveness and an efficiency that will provide some certainty out there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EIt also improves the safety and environmental protection that, again, as I started to say in my short contribution to the House, are so important in terms of getting the right balance between the environmental impacts, the environmental consequences, and the economic importance. This is a pragmatic bill. It is another good example of what this Government is doing to move things ahead. I am certainly happy to commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4681da26f0040cc9876fd0c05be2c87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4681da26f0040cc9876fd0c05be2c87\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to follow Mr Sabin and his unique brand of jocular sincerity. I am pleased to rise to take a call on this, the second reading of the Marine Legislation Bill. New Zealand First supports this bill. We supported it at its first reading with some reservations. I have had to consult the Hansard to discover what those reservations were. Apparently they centred on the Rena and the effects of the fuel oil that leaked from that now infamous vessel on to the pristine beaches of the Bay of Plenty. I was uncertain as to the nature of our reservations, because during the first reading New Zealand First was represented by the now independent member from Tauranga. The independent member from Tauranga was very concerned about the oil on the beaches, and rightly so. We are very concerned about oil on the beaches as well. We remain concerned, despite his absence from our caucus. He did not take that concern with him. I look forward to hearing the independent member from Tauranga speaking on this bill again. I look forward to his speech, as I am sure it will add to the powerful contribution he is making in his new role as New Zealand\u2019s most effective independent MP. I wish him well with that. As one of my old teachers used to say, as my old chemistry teacher at high school used to say when we were facing exams, as he used to remark to those of us who were about to be examined, I wish him the success that he deserves. But I digress perhaps just a little. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First supports this bill. We are happy to support good legislation as and when we encounter it. If we have any criticism, it is perhaps that it has taken this long for this legislation to reach this stage of its passage through the House, and that it will be some time yet\u2014some not inconsiderable time yet\u2014before it becomes law. The longer it takes before this bill becomes law, the greater the chances will be that another Rena disaster may be visited upon us. We may be faced with yet more oil on the beaches. The independent member from Tauranga may be forced, or at least feel compelled, to avail us of yet more photos on his iPad of oil on the beaches. I can think of little else that I would wish to see less than pictures of oil on the beaches on the iPad of the independent member from Tauranga, or indeed anything else that may be on it. I suppose I should be grateful that at least he did not sing. Or perhaps he did\u2014perhaps he did sing. I cannot be sure, as I confess that I did not read the Hansard in its entirety. If it is indeed the case that the now independent member from Tauranga did burst into song about the oil on the beaches, I am sure that some honourable member who was present at the time will remind me of it, unless of course they have blanked that occurrence from their memory. It is possible that that happened, and perhaps understandable. Again, I am digressing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is happy to support this bill, and we are glad about the various concerns that it will address. The Minister for Building and Construction, Mr Williamson, made references to the broad aims of the bill during the earlier debate, and we agree with those broad aims. He said that \u201CThe purpose of this bill is to promote maritime safety and marine environment protection.\u201D, and we support that aim. The Minister said much else with which we agree. He remarked that \u201CThe bill also transfers the regulation of waste dumping and discharges from ships and offshore installations involved in seabed activities in the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf from Maritime New Zealand to the Environmental Protection Authority. This change is achieved through amendments to the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act 2012. \u2026 It seeks to promote safety in maritime transport, protect the marine environment, and implement New Zealand\u2019s obligations under international maritime conventions.\u201D\u2014the main issues and benefits of this are, of course, those very international conventions\u2014\u201CThe bill enables New Zealand to accede to three international conventions to protect New Zealand\u2019s maritime interests.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThe Rena disaster has \u201Chighlighted the need to update New Zealand\u2019s liability limitation regime for maritime claims. The bill will enable New Zealand to accede to the 1996 protocol to amend the International Convention on Limitation of Liability for Maritime Claims 1976. \u2026 The bill also enables New Zealand to ratify the International Convention on Civil Liability for Bunker Oil Pollution Damage 2001, which makes shipowners strictly liable for bunker oil spills. Claims for pollution damage from ships\u2019 bunker oil will be treated as a separate category of claim. The increased liability limit established by the 1996 protocol will apply to such claims. This arrangement provides a more certain remedy for parties facing economic loss or clean-up costs because of bunker oil spills. Thirdly, the bill enables New Zealand to accede to the Protocol Relating to Intervention on the High Seas in Cases of Pollution by Substances other than Oil 1973. This will help protect New Zealand\u2019s environment in the event of a shipping accident involving hazardous or noxious substances.\u201D\u2014such as perhaps that which occurred with the Rena\u2014\u201CThe bill also implements amendments to the International Convention on Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers 1978 that establish an internationally applicable alcohol limit for merchant seafarers.\u201D I note that other members have made mention of the alcohol limit and how it differs from that which applies to road users in New Zealand. Mr Lees-Galloway, I think, could be reassured that masters of container ships operating on our roads will, indeed, be subject to lower alcohol limits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u201CThe bill establishes clear functions, duties, and powers to complement the voluntary guidelines of the New Zealand Port and Harbour Marine Safety Code 2004, and maintains the division of central and local government responsibilities. These measures provide a stronger regime for the management of port and harbour and navigation safety. The bill also contains miscellaneous amendments to improve enforcement, modernise penalty levels, and clarify the application of the Maritime Transport Act. \u2026 The bill also amends rule-making provisions in line with amendments already made to the rule-making provisions of the Civil Aviation Act 1990 and the Land Transport Act 1998. Transfers of discharge and dumping functions from Maritime New Zealand to the Environmental Protection Authority are covered. The bill transfers regulation of waste dumping, except emergency dumping, and certain discharges within the exclusive economic zone and over the continental shelf from Maritime New Zealand to the Environmental Protection Authority. This will enable discharge and dumping applications to be considered entirely within the new exclusive economic zone regime,\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EIn short, this is a good and necessary piece of legislation, and we commend the Government for advancing it, although I reiterate we are not entirely happy about how long it has taken for it to be implemented. New Zealand First supports this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u00223f0355303d7145a1b0045bfad59b43ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f0355303d7145a1b0045bfad59b43ee\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National):\u003C/span\u003E What a pleasure it is to follow Mr Richard Prosser after his dissertation on the previous New Zealand First member, fitting in a few details about the Marine Legislation Bill as he went. Those details were significant and I thank him for doing that, because he clearly has a details type of mind. I, in fact, would probably say that I am more of a generalist, so I am going to have a general look at this bill. When it came into the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee I read that it was an omnibus bill that amends the main Maritime Transport Act 1994 and the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act 2012. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThat introduction could lead one to think that this would be an updating, regulatory, reinterpretation sort of bill, which might not be the most riveting part of one\u2019s parliamentary life. It did involve updating, it did involve reinterpretation and regulation, and it was a very large piece of legislation, but what a riveting, interesting piece of legislation it has been. I will always remember it for four main reasons: first, for the phenomenal reach of the experience, knowledge, and practical common sense of the officials in response to our questions. There seemed to be little that they could not handle immediately, and it was amazing the way they did that. The range of subjects and activities involved in the bill were from oversight of port and marine safety and environmental effects through to the appointment of harbour masters, the role of the harbour masters, how to deal with putting writs on derelict ships, and alcohol limits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EListening to the clarity of submissions from groups of people who have saltwater seemingly running through their veins and the accumulated knowledge of generations of master mariners in their profession was a privilege that was a pleasure to experience. They took their work extremely seriously, they thoroughly enjoyed their work, and they were pleased to put their experiences and opinions, as submitters, before us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe fourth reason why I particularly wish to commend this bill to the House is in recognition that marine regulations and mariners, through those regulations, carry our country\u2019s wealth. They carry our exports to market and bring our imports in through seaports, using the regulations that are legislated in this House. That is 49 million tonnes of product coming through our ports\u201449 million tonnes a year, at a value of $75 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EGood marine legislation has always been critical and crucial to New Zealand. It is crucial to New Zealand, and always will be crucial to New Zealand. I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u00221745a29cf51b493f9b4a46184bc237fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221745a29cf51b493f9b4a46184bc237fb\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to have the opportunity to take a call in the second reading of the Marine Legislation Bill, and I share my colleague Chris Auchinvole\u2019s enthusiasm for this bill. It was indeed extremely interesting to work on. Also, while I have the opportunity, may I welcome Mike Sabin as deputy chair to our Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. He is not listening, but anyway\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b242b85067774bcda5bab429cf375c0d\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am listening\u2014absolutely. I appreciate that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de25f070ab35427abb122deed60537e4\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you are listening. OK. But may I also point out that it is actually the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. It has got a lot to do with workers, and I fear that it is going to be very challenging for that member when the time comes to consider this Government\u2019s terrible programme for cutting the rights of workers. Can I also assure Mr Sabin that he going to get a ritual beating from me in my speech as well, because I have been on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e2701a3cfc54513830bdfbcb7963f93\u0022\u003EHon Kate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: For ever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f32d1cf228604b69b771ff10dad8de2a\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: For ever\u2014that is right. The member is right. I have, since 2005, when I came into Parliament with Kate Wilkinson. Actually, we were on the select committee together then too. So I know quite a lot of the history of the events that led to some of the provisions in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAlso, I arrived in Tauranga the day after the Rena hit the Astrolabe Reef and before the storm. There was a big storm and overnight the sands of Tauranga turned black. I will never forget waking up in the morning and looking out of my window and seeing that all of the beaches surrounding where I was staying were black. It was just devastating. The people of Tauranga were heartbroken. They were already reeling, as we know, from the impact of Psa on their kiwifruit. What they were looking at was what was happening to their beautiful coastline, the wildlife, and their kai moana. What was wonderful was how they got out and helped where they could. Although that was more than 2 years ago, there are still questions, I think, that this bill brings up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAs I said, I have been a member of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee since I entered Parliament in 2005. Maurice Williamson was a member from 2005 to 2008. Kate Wilkinson was also a member during that period. Both became Ministers in the new Government. David Bennett was also a member, and he has been there for ever as well, but he is now chair of the committee. What is interesting\u2014Kate Wilkinson can speak for herself, but I wonder about this\u2014is that David Bennett cannot even remember that in 2005 to 2008 that committee passed a recommendation that the two conventions that this bill introduces should be passed into legislation so that they could be enforced by the New Zealand courts. Those two conventions are the international treaty Convention on Limitation of Liability for Maritime Claims, which would have doubled the $12 million liability limit in the case of the Rena and funded compensation for businesses and properties that were adversely affected, and the bunker convention, the second convention that this bill deals with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe then incoming Minister of Transport, Steven Joyce, had a briefing in 2008 that noted that the ministry was ready to introduce legislation to update the Maritime Transport Act. And guess what? This is now 2013 and we are just on the second reading of this bill\u20145 years later. It has taken all this time to hit the House. In the meantime, what I saw as I sat on that select committee was Maritime New Zealand being engaged in pointless value-for-money exercises demanded by this Government\u2014demanded by the Government\u2014when all the time we had an accident of the size of the Rena waiting to happen, with dreadful consequences. In fact, the consequences could be described as the leaky homes crisis of the sea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIt goes back even further than that. I think it goes back to Maurice Williamson\u2019s days as Minister of Transport, when he deregulated coastal shipping in New Zealand\u2014when he gutted the regulations required for coastal shipping and ships sailing around our coastline delivering freight, and basically opened up our seaways to the sort of disaster that we ended up seeing with the Rena. That is another debate, and I am sure we will have that debate at some stage, because Labour is certainly committed to reinstating coastal shipping. I think one of the members before described how important shipping is, how it brings huge amounts of goods in, and how it is worth billions of dollars and so on, but what this Government does instead, of course, is it tends to put all of that freight and other things on the roads, when we have perfectly great highways of the sea that currently are not regulated and that need to be regulated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EBut there are other things in this bill, and, as I mentioned, some of them are very interesting. I am fascinated\u2014and this again goes back to the length of time that I have spent on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee\u2014by the Government\u2019s keenness to introduce the blood-alcohol limit of 0.05 grams for seafarers. Yes, we know that it is part of a convention that we signed up for, but this issue of the blood-alcohol limit for drivers on New Zealand roads is not new to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, and, in fact, the Government has had several opportunities to introduce it. When we last considered it, I think it was 2 years ago, and what we were told by the Government then was that there was not enough research available. Actually, there are mountains of research, but we had to have New Zealand - specific research, so we are still waiting. I think, actually, one of the things that our committee should do is ask for an update as to where that research is, because I suspect that it may well have been just a means of putting off a difficult issue that this Government did not want to tackle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAnyone who loves the sea, as we do in New Zealand, and who is fascinated by ships would be fascinated by this bill. There are some really interesting things in it\u2014a whole provision around the removal of wrecks. It had never occurred to me that there would be regional council responsibility for removing wrecks, which, of course, become a hazard in their own right. There was lengthy discussion around responsibilities and the requirements around that. Of course, wrecks become not only a hazard to other ships but also an environmental hazard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E The other recollection I have of working on this bill are the long discussions we had about harbour masters and the role of harbour masters, who are apparently very, very difficult to find. We have very few trained and qualified harbour masters in New Zealand, and local councils were very concerned about some of the provisions that were being proposed, because they say that it is almost impossible to hire trained and qualified harbour masters, as required by maritime legislation. When I asked why, they were pretty frank. They said that there was no training programme going on and also that the salaries are not attractive enough. I think that is something we will have to address in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I was interested in and that there were some good submissions on were the proposals around the responsibilities of port facilities in ports to ensure health and safety\u2014the responsibilities that they would be required to carry out. Under the original bill they had responsibilities to prevent health and safety accidents that could endanger or were likely to endanger any person or property on a ship or at sea. We all know that ports were a bit of a sensitive topic, and still continue to be\u2014actually, Auckland port is still not settled. What they did note was that the Government has this great ministerial task force on health and safety. It considers that our health and safety levels are below the levels of other countries, and it is absolutely right about that. The Port CEO Group wants to see the task force process actually completed, and was concerned that there was going to be a mix-up between the Health and Safety in Employment Act and the requirements under this bill in terms of port facility responsibilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ESo it is an interesting bill. It is a very long bill. I also want to endorse what Chris Auchinvole said about the contribution of the officials, their willingness to answer questions and do the research, and their very impressive knowledge of what is clearly a unique part of law in New Zealand that very few people have experience in. Labour is supporting this bill. We look forward to the debate in the Committee stage, when, I am sure, we will get into discussing it in a lot more detail. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u00226a8361b7e902461d86eb115897b8ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a8361b7e902461d86eb115897b8ec9d\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great pleasure to rise to speak on the Marine Legislation Bill. I must say that I enjoyed the contribution from the member Darien Fenton, who has just sat down. It betokens the pleasure and enthusiasm, I think, that members of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee had in considering this rather arcane but none the less interesting piece of work. A lot of work has been done. The bill enjoys widespread support across the House, and that in itself is a pleasure. I would like to acknowledge the chairmanship of David Bennett. I have just had the pleasure of joining this committee, and it is of regret to me that I was not there for the consideration of this piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003ETrade is, of course, our lifeblood. It is New Zealand\u2019s lifeblood. We export the majority of our commodities by sea, and most of the essential imports that we all appreciate also come by sea. As a principled, pragmatic Government we are committed to building a more competitive and productive economy, and part of that is growing our exports. The work that Tim Groser has done around the world is legendary, and our Prime Minister has just come back from South America and developing new markets there. This bill highlights our commitment to creating strong and sensible legislation that works and allows us to achieve that end. It aims to improve the clarity, consistency, and effectiveness of the Maritime Transport Act and it will also provide more certainty around the laws involved, as well as improving safety, environmental practices, and environmental protection. That is a crucial part of our plank\u2014economic development that is sustainable, with protection of our environment. We have heard that the Marine Legislation Bill makes amendments to the Maritime Transport Act and the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act, and I will not go into any further detail on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EAs a young lad I grew up in Taranaki. It is an area I am proud of. You can take the boy away from the mountain, but you can never take the mountain away from the boy. One of my earliest memories is going down to Ng\u0101motu Beach and seeing a nodding donkey oil well\u2014an oil well, I was told, that was one of the longest-serving producing wells in the country. Because of my interest in the region and in the oil industry itself\u2014which, incidentally, is the third or fourth plank to the New Zealand economy. We export $2 billion - plus of very high-quality oil to the overseas markets, which is a fact I was not aware of until some years ago. Of course, \u201CTaradise\u201D\u2014Taranaki\u2014is where most of that oil comes from. We are committed to getting more out of that area and also other parts of New Zealand but also to protecting the environment, and this is what this legislation helps us do. With the New Zealand Business and Parliament Trust, I am hoping to spend a bit of time with the oil industry in Taranaki. The industry has worked very well over the decades\u2014very, very well indeed. There has been a very, very small number of extremely minor oil spills, but this legislation actually provides some clarity in terms of civil liability for pollution of the marine environment from marine structures. The clarity comes about through a committee recommendation amending a particular clause and inserting a new part relating to civil liability for pollution from marine structures and operations. This makes it clear that insurance requirements extend to pipelines that connect to offshore installations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003ESo it is a very positive piece of legislation. The other area that it deals with is in a similar part of the legislation, in that Maritime New Zealand will remain responsible for oil spill response and emergency dumping, as expertise and power to deal with these aspects lie within its scope. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022610f5f50befe422e92570fd3a0804294\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022610f5f50befe422e92570fd3a0804294\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. The Hon Ruth Dyson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00227c48dfb3aeda46c89e371697a577dc5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c48dfb3aeda46c89e371697a577dc5e\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E It is a split call. I am delighted to join with the other members of the Labour team in supporting this Marine Legislation Bill, but I have to say that it really does still beg the question\u2014despite all the National members who have spoken, none of them has answered the question\u2014why did this take so long? Why did it take New Zealand ending up losing millions and millions of dollars, when in 2008, leading into the election, National received the bill? It had this legislation all ready to go. It won the election\u2014and it has reminded us of that on many occasions\u2014yet for 3 long years Steven Joyce sat on this legislation and did nothing. Then he was stripped of that portfolio\u2014clearly he was not up to the job\u2014and, blow me down, who was it given to but the Hon Gerry Brownlee. He took another excruciatingly long period of time to bring this legislation through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWell, some people might think that it is not important, and often we would not see directly the implications of having legislation that was below standard. But, tragically, we did know the impact of having substandard legislation, caused by the National Government sitting on its hands, when the bill was written and given to it. We saw the tragic effects on our economy and on our shorelines when the Rena hit the Astrolabe. If that had not happened prior to this legislation, then we would not have had to have huge amounts of resources involved in haggling over what will now be our legal entitlement. When damage like that is done to our environment, we know who should pay the consequences. But, because of the shoddiness of Steven Joyce and Gerry Brownlee, New Zealand taxpayers paid the cost, as well as the poor people in the Tauranga area, who had to look at the dreadful mess made by that incident. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI went up to Tauranga just a few days after the Rena disaster, and I have to say that it was pretty awful looking at the penguins and the birdlife covered in oil. I would like to take the opportunity to put on record my admiration of the passion and the knowledge that was demonstrated by the people who were cleaning those animals and making sure that they were brought back to good health. It really was a fantastic gift that they were giving to the animals themselves, obviously, and also to the surrounding area. There were a lot of people involved, from local community people right through to Government departments and agencies. They did that because they care about the community and they care about the beauty of our beaches and our water. All of that time the Government was sitting on its hands, letting the financial liability be carried by those people and their fellow New Zealand citizens as well. It was a shambles and we lost literally millions of dollars as a result. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis bill really is another indication of how poorly some Ministers are running their portfolios and the cost that we have to bear as a country as a result of their shoddiness and laziness. We will be supporting this bill. It is a good bill to support. It is a long way overdue; it should have been introduced as a priority in 2009. We wish that we had been given a chance by the Government to back this bill earlier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u00222bd172abed6b4cccb08ca8ad4b88da8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bd172abed6b4cccb08ca8ad4b88da8d\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am also pleased to take a brief call to reiterate our support for this bill, the Marine Legislation Bill, albeit our somewhat qualified support. It is a good bill. It could have been a great bill. It could have done a great deal more. It could have gone further towards protecting both our economic and our environmental interests in the marine environment, particularly in the exclusive economic zone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI think perhaps that we tend to take for granted as New Zealanders our uniqueness, and that we are literally in the middle of a water hemisphere. We have one of the largest exclusive economic zones of any country in the world, a coastline of some 15,000 kilometres long. It is a remarkable asset to us. It is something extraordinary, which does shape our culture, and, of course, does have a significant economic influence, as well. To the extent that we have that extraordinary asset\u2014all this enormous exclusive economic zone; we have control over such a large area of the marine environment\u2014it perhaps equally carries with it a responsibility to protect, to enhance, and to do the very, very best we can to ensure that our human activities, our exportation, and our transit across that marine environment do not cause it harm. It must be said that that is where this bill does somewhat fall short of what it could have been. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIt was interesting to see the pleasure some of the National members took in getting general support for this legislation. I would have to say that to have that happen more regularly, more routinely, the answer is in their hands, really. It is simply to present bills that give us economic sustainability, that enhance and protect our environment, and that are socially responsible. Give us legislation, bills, that are fit for use in the 21st century, and we will be very happy to support them, as I am sure our Labour colleagues would, too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EBut, having said that we will support the bill, it is worth reiterating also some of the shortcomings of this legislation. It does leave us exposed financially to future maritime disasters on the scale of the Rena, or lesser or greater. The numbers that my colleague mentioned are compelling. The cost of the Gulf of Mexico disaster was some $40 billion; we are covered in New Zealand to the tune of some $30 million. At the same time, it looks as though this Government will allow, despite all the evidence and contrary advice, deep-sea drilling. If we are going to start drilling for oil in some of the deepest water on the planet, if we are going to be drilling for oil in some of the most exposed, dynamic seas anywhere in the world, one would think, even from an economic position, that you would protect yourself against almost inevitable disasters and failures of equipment or people that inevitably will have a massive environmental impact, as well as an economic one. So it is unfortunate that this bill does not go further towards protecting our economic interests as well as our environmental responsibilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that we now have legislation that will recognise that alcohol impairs the behaviour and the performance of seafarers. It was fascinating that just today in the Law and Order Committee in another context we read the Auditor-General\u2019s report on the police performance in terms of monitoring and enforcing drink-driving law in New Zealand. The short story is that they are doing a very good job, albeit in the face of a ridiculously high alcohol limit. A Labour speaker mentioned the Government\u2019s excuse for not lowering the alcohol limit on our roads to be lack of research. I encourage the National Party to read the Auditor-General\u2019s report, which spells out very clearly the clinical, the medical, and the behavioural effects on people who are within the existing alcohol limit, and the danger to the rest of us imposed by that. So it is a good thing that at least the seafarers in future will be subject to prosecution if they are found to be operating vessels or behaving in a way under the influence of alcohol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI will leave it there. As I say, there are some good parts to this bill; it could have been a great deal better. We look forward to a future time when we will have the opportunity to make it better legislation that will protect our economic and our environmental responsibilities much more. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7ce9be5cadf47caac3eb03151ea2d9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7ce9be5cadf47caac3eb03151ea2d9d\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I want to begin by acknowledging what really has been cross-party support for this bill, the Marine Legislation Bill, and that I am conscious that various parties are not completely in tune as to where the Government is going. Two quick points I wanted to make in a sort of retort is that I am not sure that \u201Cinevitable disasters\u201D is a fair statement. Of course, that is a point for debate, I suppose. Any role of the Government is to try to mitigate risk and there is risk involved with everything, from getting up in the morning to having a drink and so forth. So I think we do need to be careful that we do not throw the baby out with the bathwater, and understand that the Government is about mitigating risk, particularly around deep-sea drilling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWe also heard concerns from the Labour Party about why the time frame has been what it has. I suppose there is an element of \u201Cgood things take time\u201D. But I mentioned last night to the point of consistency\u2014and I just note that the bunker convention was adopted in 2001, during Labour\u2019s time. In 2001 the bunker convention was adopted and Labour sat on that, so one has to be very careful about talking around time or making accusations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI think it is important to acknowledge the hard work of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. I think it was incredibly constructive, under the chairmanship of David Bennett. But I think what was most notable was that people coming to present, to give their submissions\u2014both written and oral\u2014were heard, were listened to. When I think of things around load lines, ferry usage, and alcohol as well, people came and submitted, the select committee debated and discussed, and it took advice from officials and continued to develop it from there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThis is a good piece of legislation. It is time, as we continue to move it through the House, to take it through to Committee stage and on to its third reading. So I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223f5cfc439b50434b849a94d3c6e5fdca\u0022\u003ELocal Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f6f7b06727b04ca8ae8e96389e4f8a69\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u00225f645f3844ad41e7b5bc607b1675f5fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f645f3844ad41e7b5bc607b1675f5fc\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS TREMAIN (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Local Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2) be now read a second time. This bill amends the rules for local authority elections. The bill\u2019s amendments are designed to instil high levels of public confidence in the integrity of elections. In particular, the bill recognises the strong need for increased transparency and accountability around candidates\u2019 campaign donations. It brings the level of transparency and accountability applied to local electoral candidates closer to that applied to parliamentary candidates, such as us. It also recognises a need to streamline pre-election processes. The public rightfully expects high levels of transparency and confidence in the conduct of all public elections. For this reason, the Government is keen to progress this bill in time for the next local authority elections. These will be held on 12 October this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ELocal authority elections cover the elections of representatives to regional councils, district councils, city councils, unitary authorities, community boards, local boards, district health boards, licensing trusts, and community trusts. The scale and diversity of local authority elections is indeed impressive. At the last elections, in 2010, over 2.9 million postal voting packs were delivered to electors, and electors voted for more than 1,800 representatives on more than 250 local authorities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe bill\u2019s changes to the Local Electoral Act and regulations are threefold. Firstly, the bill tightens and increases transparency in the rules applying to candidates for receiving, recording, and reporting their campaign donations. It brings these rules closer in line with the rules for parliamentary elections, as I mentioned earlier. Secondly, the bill streamlines a range of pre-election processes. These changes are about bringing greater efficiency and effectiveness to the electoral process. Thirdly, the bill improves the quality of publicly available information about candidates to help electors cast an informed vote and to increase candidate accountability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EI will now briefly highlight some of the changes that are proposed in this bill. The current definition of \u201Canonymous donation\u201D in the Local Electoral Act is unclear. The bill addresses this issue by requiring greater accountability from candidates. A donation cannot be treated as anonymous if a candidate knows the identity of the donor or the candidate could, in the circumstances, reasonably be expected to know the identity of the donor. If a person handling a candidate\u2019s donations knows the identity of any donor, the details must be passed on to the candidate. The bill also limits the value of anonymous donations from a single donor. There is currently no limit to the amount of an anonymous donation in the Local Electoral Act. The bill stipulates, therefore, that if a candidate receives an anonymous donation greater than $1,500, they will be able to keep the $1,500 but will have to forfeit the excess. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EIn addition, the bill streamlines a number of important pre-election processes. Many of these changes reflect improvements recommended by councils, electoral officers, and others involved in the running of local authority elections. The changes are based on the practical experience of these people who submitted to the select committee. Specifically, the bill gives unitary authorities, city councils, and district councils greater flexibility to set ward boundaries in a way that better encompasses local communities and communities with common interests. It also streamlines candidate nomination processes and provides electoral officers an extra week to produce high-quality voting documents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe bill makes other changes. It requires candidates to inform electors whether or not they live in the local government area\u2014for example, in the ward or constituency to which they seek election. It will also require candidates to inform electors of all positions that they are contesting. With the Justice and Electoral Committee\u2019s amendments, the bill also provides the public with clear rights of access to candidates\u2019 returns of electoral expenses and donations. Electoral officers will be required to publish all returns and to make copies available to the public when requested to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThese changes will make real and noticeable improvements to local authority elections. The changes are broadly welcomed by the local government sector and others involved in the running of local authority elections. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the contributions of the New Zealand Society of Local Government Managers and Local Government New Zealand to this bill. Can I thank them for their submissions on this process. I note that most submissions were also positive about the bill\u2019s changes. I also wish to thank the Justice and Electoral Committee, chaired by Scott Simpson, for its thorough examination of the bill. Thank you to members involved. The committee operated under tight time constraints, and I appreciate its support of the need to implement the bill\u2019s changes quickly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe committee, through its amendments, has clearly sought to ensure, firstly, that the new rules are robust and enforceable; secondly, that local electoral rules are aligned as closely as possible with those for parliamentary elections; and, thirdly, that the law strikes an appropriate balance between transparent processes and compliance obligations. In particular, the committee\u2019s amendment to replicate the Electoral Act\u2019s approach of excluding goods and services with a value of $300 or less from the definition of \u201Celectoral donation\u201D appropriately balances transparency and compliance obligations. The change will mean that candidates will not need to keep records of lower-value goods and services such as donations of cakes, biscuits, and stationery. This provides consistent rules for both local and parliamentary elections, and will reduce administrative obligations. The new rules will also be simpler to enforce, which is good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ETo summarise, the Local Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2) will strengthen the integrity of the Local Electoral Act and local electoral regulations. It will enhance the transparency and efficiency of local authority elections, beginning with this year\u2019s 2013 elections. It will enhance the representation of electors, and as a result of these changes it will increase the public\u2019s confidence in the local electoral system as being efficient, democratic, and transparent. For these reasons, I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00228162f0ca0f2c40afb7e7211394720ea5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228162f0ca0f2c40afb7e7211394720ea5\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I want to congratulate the Minister of Local Government on his address to the House in relation to this bill, the Local Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2), as the new Minister taking over this particular responsibility. I really wanted to endorse the words that he used. There were two words. They were \u201Cstrengthen integrity\u201D\u2014strengthen integrity. That is actually what this bill is about. I just want to remind people about answers to a series of questions that were put to the Prime Minister last year. He said: \u201Cthe issue of ethical standards applies to Ministers when they are holding their warrants.\u201D He said: \u201CAs the member should know, the Cabinet Manual makes it quite clear that when it comes to ethics it is at the time the person holds their warrant.\u201D He said: \u201CI am satisfied that the Minister has given me an assurance, which is the test, that he has done everything in accordance with the law.\u201D He said: \u201CThere is quite a wide definition of ethics \u2026 The test I have to apply is the law.\u201D Well, I just want to remind this House why we are debating the Local Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297669eb5545248eda29926dd952076e6\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, why is that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f1396c1df2f406eb022210c3648c020\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: It is because somebody could not define the difference between \u201Ccompliance with the letter of the law\u201D and an understanding of what \u201Cethics\u201D might actually stand for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ELet me quote from the police report into the John Banks affair: \u201CThe Police investigation established that on 24 May 2010 Mayor John Banks met with the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Skycity Entertainment Group Limited. At that meeting Mayor Banks received a sealed envelope containing a $15,000.00 cheque written out to \u2018Team Banksie 2010\u2019.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e03e3cd01fdb47dd8f6035d54b3ef95a\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: Why was it in an envelope?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d2cbb9c7edc4b1fab5fa663ced2a243\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think it was in an envelope because that enabled things to be sort of\u2014well, I think it allowed brain fade to take effect. I have actually renamed this bill the \u201CBrain Fade Bill\u201D, because what it does away with is the capacity for individuals to suffer from brain fade. Anonymous donations beyond $1,500 will actually be referred to the Electoral Commission. The police report said: \u201CTeam Banksie was the name given to Mr Bank\u2019s campaign organisation. This donation was subsequently recorded in the Electoral Return by the Treasurer for Team Banksie as anonymous.\u201D Did Mr Banks know where the money had come from? Yes, he did. Did he know that it had been recorded subsequently as anonymous? No. That is where the grey area was, and that is how he wriggled out of that particular prosecution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWhat the police said was that they were \u201Ctherefore of the view that there is insufficient evidence to consider a prosecution\u201D\u2014not because they did not think that Banks knew where the money came from; he just did not know that they had recorded it as anonymous. We believe that. The police report said: \u201CPolice have established that in September 2010 Mr John Banks personally solicited a request for help from a Donor who prefers to remain anonymous for the purpose of this correspondence.\u201D\u2014quoting from the police report\u2014\u201CAs a result of a discussion between the two it was agreed that the Donor would help with a donation of radio advertising for the campaign. The donation was recorded on the return by the Treasurer for Team Banksie as an \u2018Anonymous\u2019 donation \u2026 Police were unable to establish that Mr Banks had the necessary knowledge that the donation had been recorded as anonymous in the return before he signed and submitted it.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ELet us quote a little bit further. It says \u201CPolice have established that on 09 June 2010 Mr John Banks personally solicited a donation from Mr Kim Dotcom. This request resulted in Mr Kim Dotcom paying two $25,000.00 donations \u2026 Both donations were subsequently recorded \u2026 as anonymous.\u201D\u2014and here is the quote again, from the police report\u2014\u201CPolice were unable to establish that Mr Banks had the necessary knowledge that the donation had been recorded as anonymous \u2026\u201D. We are here debating this legislation on a subject that the Minister of Local Government completely failed to mention. We are here because John Banks failed to act in an appropriate way when he was standing for the mayoralty of Auckland\u2014and, actually, he did not win the mayoralty of Auckland, and Aucklanders are very grateful for that fact. But he has come to Parliament and he has found that it does not matter how he behaved when he was a candidate for the mayoralty, because our Prime Minister thinks it is OK to behave that way when you are a candidate for the mayoralty, as long as you do not have a ministerial warrant in your hand. Well, I do not think that that is acceptable, and the people of New Zealand do not think it is acceptable, either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI still find it utterly extraordinary that John Banks cannot remember flying in a helicopter to a large, ostentatious property owned by a large, ostentatious multimillionaire. I do not know any ostentatious multimillionaires myself, but the reality is that this is not an everyday activity for anyone, and yet he has completely and utterly overlooked the fact that nobody can accept that. If we think of the amount of time and effort that Parliament has had to invest in addressing this particular matter, one has to ask whether this is the best use of Parliament\u2019s time if we are not even prepared to front up and talk about the real reasons why we are here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWe had a Prime Minister who campaigned from one end of the country to the other in 2008 on holding a referendum on MMP. He said: \u201CWe are going to have a referendum on MMP. We are going to let the people of New Zealand kick the tyres.\u201D I remember him saying \u201Ckick the tyres\u201D, because it is an expression that he used to use quite a bit. He said we were going to kick the tyres on MMP. The referendum was held. What happened with the referendum? Did we get rid of MMP, as he wanted? No, we did not. We kept MMP. So what was the trade-off for keeping MMP? We were going to have a review of MMP because there were elements of it that people knew they wanted to see changed. What has happened to the review? Well, the Electoral Commission held its own review because the Government refused to provide it with any terms of reference. It went to the Government and said: \u201CHave you got any terms of reference for us?\u201D, and the Government just did not even reply. So the Electoral Commission, feeling that it had a responsibility, went ahead and held its review of MMP, and it came up with some suggestions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EA pretty major suggestion also comes back to John Banks, and the major suggestion that it came back with was that we had to fix the thresholds. We had to reduce the threshold from 5 percent to 4 percent, but, more important, that was the quid pro quo for getting rid of the one-seat threshold\u2014the John Banks threshold, the cup of tea threshold\u2014that everyone now knows the people of New Zealand do not want. But the Government has not introduced any legislation to address that issue. We are dealing with the other John Banks issue: the issue of brain fade. I think it is really important that this Government actually looks at what the real recommendations are in this area, and at what we need to be doing in order to ensure that we have a robust electoral law system in this country. If the Prime Minister wanted to address those real issues, we would not be addressing this now; we would be addressing those other issues, so that when we get to the general election next year we deal with those fundamental changes that people want. John Banks has rorted one system after another. That is what John Banks is responsible for. That is his legacy to this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWe are fixing one of those rorts tonight, and, yes, we will support this legislation for that reason. It does need to be addressed. We do need to align the general election law with the local body law. That is what we need to do, but there is another law that needs to change as well and that is our general election law. We need to make sure that the rort that John Banks also stands for on the other side of it is dealt with as well. We have to find ourselves addressing the excesses of behaviour on both sides of that spectrum, and I believe that it is absolutely irresponsible of the Prime Minister of New Zealand not to front up to this most basic of issues in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00221bdef1000fb142f4969f6a5efc029347\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bdef1000fb142f4969f6a5efc029347\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E As the new chairman of the Justice and Electoral Committee it is a great pleasure for me to rise in support of the second reading of this Local Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EBut before I get into the detail of the bill in terms of its second reading, I just want to respond to a couple of the points made by the previous speaker, the Hon Lianne Dalziel, because today of all days it ill behoves that member and members of her party to be talking about brain fade in any way, shape, or form. This is a day when her leader, her current leader\u2014and the aspirant leader is sitting smiling beside that last speaker. There is a real problem in the Labour Party with brain fade\u2014a real problem\u2014and the delicious irony for members on this side is that the amounts involved appear to be similar, except that we do not know the maximum upper limit of the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s secret bank account. It might be US$100,000 or it could be a million dollars. We do not know what is in that secret bank account, and he should come clean. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EBut this is a good bill. Can I just for a moment talk about the proceedings at the select committee. I came a little late to this bill. I took over the chairmanship of the select committee after submissions had been heard, but I want to say that from the point when I got involved, I thought that this committee worked very, very well. It was, I think, a good example, notwithstanding the speech from the Hon Lianne Dalziel, of the select committee process working well to achieve a good outcome\u2014refining a bill that was presented to the House and making a few amendments that were good, practical suggestions in a way that had broad support across the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe Greens have presented a minority report, and they make particular reference to matters concerning third-party donations. That is a matter that the committee simply did not have time to consider in its full complexity or detail. We hope that the Government will see fit to discuss that by way of discussion during the Committee of the whole House, because it is an area that does, I think, need some addressing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo what we have here is a piece of legislation that, effectively, brings candidates for local body elections into line with the same donation regime system that applies to candidates seeking parliamentary elections to this House. I think that is a good thing, and I think it has broad appeal across the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EAs the Minister of Local Government said, the purpose of the bill is threefold. It is to improve provisions for the conduct of local elections. We know that, ready or not, we have elections in October of this year, so the intention is that this bill should be passed and enacted by the end of May, and that is why we are discussing it now. The second point is to increase transparency and accountability in relation to those candidates and the donations that they receive, and in particular in relation to anonymous donations. The third point that this bill seeks to identify and strengthen is the integrity of the local electoral system. Those are three worthy causes. This bill seeks to address those things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EOn behalf of the committee and members on this side, I want to acknowledge the work of the committee and thank members for their constructive participation and their collegial approach to this bill. I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u002263ec5139828e46318f38f42893450f97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263ec5139828e46318f38f42893450f97\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E Malo le soifua, Mr Assistant Speaker. I rise to speak on this bill, the Local Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2), and to say that Labour will support this bill at its second reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI think we all know the reason why the Government has introduced this bill, and I think it is worth us reciting again that the introduction of this bill is timely, given Mr Banks\u2019 undeclared donations. I think most people would have made judgments that there is a high possibility that Mr Banks has broken the law regarding donations to his mayoral campaign. Most people would have made judgments that his dealings with Kim Dotcom are mired in half-truths, that he had to change his declaration in the Register of Pecuniary and Other Specified Interests of Members of Parliament when he was pressed on donations and gifts that he received from Kim Dotcom, and that, furthermore, John Key has refused to ask him about his actions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E Most people I have come across have already made judgments on Mr Banks\u2019 situation and believe that an action that requires police investigation would be an issue of ethical standards. They believe that Mr Banks has repeatedly shown through his convenient memory losses that he has not behaved in a manner that upholds, and is seen to uphold, the highest ethical standards as required by the Cabinet Manual. If John Banks is charged and convicted, National faces even fewer support partners in Government and a by-election is hardly the strong, strong, stable Government that that Government there promised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EWhen will the Prime Minister ask John Banks directly about his relationship with Kim Dotcom and his knowledge of the Skycity donations? And is it OK to deliberately mislead the media? There are many questions that Mr John Banks should answer for the public. Has he read the Local Electoral Act? Did he tell Kim Dotcom to split the $50,000 donation into two cheques? What did Kim Dotcom want in return, in admitting that Mr Banks was advocating for him\u2014when, to whom, and on what subjects? Did he give the Prime Minister the same untrue explanations he has given the media? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ESimilarly, there are questions that the public would want to know from the Prime Minister. Why did he accept John Banks\u2019 word without personally talking to him? Is he satisfied that John Banks has answered media questions about donations with the fullness and frankness he expects of his Ministers? Does he stand by his statement: \u201CThere is quite a wide definition of ethics \u2026 The test I have to apply is the law.\u201D? If so, is he intending to amend the Cabinet Manual? Does the fact that grossly unethical behaviour took place in a mayoral election make the perpetrator acceptable as a Minister in his Government? For how long is he prepared to allow John Banks to remain a Minister while he is being investigated by the police for electoral fraud? Does he find it credible that one of his Ministers cannot remember a private helicopter ride that landed at Dotcom\u2019s mansion? And is it acceptable that someone with such a poor memory is a Minister in Parliament? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EWhy in April 2012 did John Banks say that he hardly knew Kim Dotcom, that his contact was limited to a total of 20 minutes\u2019 conversation, and that he had been to Dotcom\u2019s mansion in Coatesville only once for dinner\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022895c8f0942a048919d080b60780ccc39\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: He knew about the donations, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f784829673c4463b9878b2b7692f927\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. Yet in April 2010 he took Dotcom\u2019s helicopter from Mechanics Bay to Dotcom\u2019s mansion, where he asked Dotcom for a $50,000 donation, which was to be split in two. He allegedly rang Kim Dotcom a few days later to thank him for his donation, later claiming that the phone call related to a $500,000 donation from Kim Dotcom towards the New Year\u2019s Eve fireworks held 6 months later. He attended Kim Dotcom\u2019s birthday party at his mansion, where he proposed a toast. He lobbied Maurice Williamson\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200fc234c68c344bf9ccf9234fad912cc\u0022\u003EHon Kate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is the second reading of the Local Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2). I do not know whether that member has even mentioned it. He seems to be focused on Kim Dotcom and I think he should confine his\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab04a61311474e2faa695065bbe8e57d\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no. Order! The member will be seated. It is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef00020321ea4aa78fed573cde9f1949\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: So this electoral reform bill is therefore timely, given the John Banks fiasco. Labour believes that reform is needed to avoid a situation where someone like John Banks can claim they have not technically broken the law, when clearly they have breached the spirit of transparency that New Zealanders expect around political campaigns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ELabour had a bill in the ballot for months to address the ridiculous situation we have seen regarding John Banks and his so-called anonymous donations. So it was good to finally see this Government presenting something. Interestingly, the Government bill also says that as a result of its changes, public confidence in local elections will increase! Confidence has fallen to the level that it is, because of the Government\u2019s action or rather inaction in relation to John Banks and the Kim Dotcom affair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EJohn Key and John Banks are not in a position to criticise anyone\u2019s ethical standards. It is also not the test the Prime Minister applies. When Mr Key was asked by Metiria Turei: \u201CWhen the Prime Minister said \u2018I expect high standards from my Ministers,\u2019 \u2026 was he applying a legal test or the test of the highest ethical standards as set out in the Cabinet Manual?\u2019, Mr Key replied: \u201CA legal test.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ELabour had a member\u2019s bill in David Cunliffe\u2019s name in the ballot, for a couple of months before this bill was introduced, that would have aligned the Local Electoral Act with the Electoral Act. Labour\u2019s bill aimed to prevent a repeat of the situation we have seen with John Banks. The bill would have placed the same requirements on candidates in local elections or polls\u2014for donations and their disclosure, and the filing of electoral returns\u2014as those that are already in place for candidates in parliamentary elections. This was to ensure consistency on these matters between the Local Electoral Act 2001 and the Electoral Act 1993. The provisions in the Electoral Act 1993 are stronger and clearer in terms of the accountability required of the candidate in an election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister\u2019s so-called high ethical standards are in tatters today. On the basis of his memory lapse alone, John Banks is not fit to serve as a Minister. John Key has handled this issue badly from the beginning. He failed to ask John Banks the hard questions about the donations. He refused to stand him down while the police were investigating him and it now looks like he will continue to stand by him because he has got off on a technicality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EMy colleague raised the point earlier, which I want to repeat, about what the police found. The police investigation established that on 24 May 2010 Mayor John Banks met with the chief executive officer of Skycity Entertainment Group and at that meeting Mayor Banks received a sealed envelope containing a $15,000 cheque written out to Team Banksie 2010. Team Banksie was the name given to Mr Banks\u2019 campaign. I raise that because this bill that we are discussing here\u2014this sort of situation that Mr Banks found himself in, aided and abetted by Mr Key and his Government, should never have happened. It should never have happened. The police are therefore of the view that there was insufficient evidence to consider a prosecution. Yet everybody in New Zealand knows that what he has done is wrong\u2014and this Government here continues to stick by them. The police were unable to establish that Mr Banks had the necessary knowledge that the donation had been recorded as an anonymous return. How can you believe that? He receives an envelope of cash in his hand and then he does not remember that that happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EHopefully that sort of goings-on is not going to happen again, but I have serious doubts. As long as this Government is in power, it appears to the public and certainly to this side of the House that it will continue to have this sort of goings-on, with the likes of John Banks continuing to take donations, pretending as if he had never received anything, and calling those who had given the donations to ask that it be anonymous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI want to say that it is timely that this bill came through. The Government should have listened to us in the first place, and supported the bill that we put forward in the first place, instead of playing all these silly games. What it has got to show for it, is that its credibility has gone down. I think that every person who supported that Government\u2014who supported that Government\u2014in the last election will be sorely disappointed, sorely disappointed because this sort of goings-on just reveals that this Government is about protecting its mates and it is about protecting its friends, despite the fact that everybody knows the unethical behaviour that has occurred, the underhand tactics that have occurred, and its failure in living up to the standards, particularly the standards required of Ministers of the Crown. So, yes, we support this bill\u2014it is timely\u2014but everybody needs to know the background behind why this Government has rushed in to introduce this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6bfb9542e274656a4754e6a6db90fe1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6bfb9542e274656a4754e6a6db90fe1\u0022\u003EHOLLY WALKER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. The Green Party is pleased to support the modernisation of our local electoral law and to support greater transparency about candidate donations in local body elections. Clearly there are unfortunate gaps in our existing legislation, which have allowed candidates to exploit the so-called anonymous donation provision, and thanks to the Hon John Banks we all know about this and are finally doing something about it. I am not going to spend a great deal of time talking about John Banks in my contribution this evening, largely because, as he is the single member of an irrelevant party, I think it is really not a great use of this House\u2019s time. We have heard at length from our Labour colleagues about what gave rise to this bill and why it became apparent to the Government that we needed to update and reform our local electoral laws. And after this bill passes I think we will agree that we will have a significant improvement to those local electoral rules and processes. After it passes, anyone who works with a candidate and knows the identity of someone who makes a donation of over $1,500 must declare the identity of that donor to the candidate. That is a good change and it is one that the Green Party supports, and for that reason the Green Party will continue to support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EHowever, the bill, unfortunately, is a missed opportunity to even more closely align the rules for local body elections with those governing general elections and the ones that govern us as parliamentary candidates. Both the Minister and our Labour colleagues have identified that one of the aims of this legislation is to bring the provisions governing local body elections more closely into line with those governing general elections. We in the Green Party agree, but, unfortunately, this bill does not go very far towards doing that, apart from the change it makes to the rules around anonymous donations. It has been designed to clear up what was identified as the mess that John Banks left, but it actually has not taken much of a wider view on what else needs tidying up in our local electoral law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EThe Green Party also has a member\u2019s bill, in the name of my colleague Denise Roche here, that would do exactly that. It would actually align the provisions governing local body elections much more closely than this bill does with the provisions governing general elections. That would include a $5,000 cap on donations by any person or group to a candidate. It would include a lower $500 limit on anonymous donations. It would include a ban on overseas donations. It would include penalties\u2014which I think is very important in the context of the example we have heard\u2014for avoiding rules relating to donations. Very important, it would include regulation of third-party spending in local body election campaigns, and I will return to that in a moment. It would include a pecuniary interest register for members of local authorities. In an era where, unfortunately, we are seeing a trend towards greater council amalgamations\u2014and certainly in the era of the Auckland super-city, as the John Banks example has demonstrated\u2014campaigning for local election is a big deal and it deserves the same level of scrutiny and public transparency as that for a general election. There is a lot at stake for someone campaigning for the Auckland mayoralty, and the public has a right to the same level of transparency about the conduct of those candidates for the Auckland mayoralty as they do for us as parliamentary candidates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003ESo when the time comes we intend to move amendments in the Committee stage to implement some of these more substantive changes, which would achieve the effect that the Minister himself identified of actually more closely aligning the provisions for local body elections with those of general elections. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EHowever, if there is one area that the House could pull out of what I have just outlined and adopt\u2014if it turned its mind to it in the Committee stage\u2014it would be the regulation of third-party spending in local body campaigns, as it seems clear that this is a major gap in this bill. This bill does not change any of the rules relating to how third parties can engage and campaign in local body elections. Just to outline the problem with the current provisions, which this bill does not change, the current provisions, for example, would allow for unlimited spending by third parties that campaign against certain candidates. In that situation it would give no obligations for those third parties to disclose what they have spent, would impose no cap on what they could spend, and would basically require them to meet no regulation at all. I believe that a campaign of this nature\u2014and we heard about this at the Justice and Electoral Committee\u2014is actually planned in 2013 in Hamilton. An individual with the means to do this who does not like any of the incumbent candidates has declared his intention to campaign against the re-election of any of the incumbent councillors in Hamilton. There is absolutely nothing in the current provisions around third-party spending in local body elections to prevent that person from doing that, to place any restriction on how much money they can spend doing that, or to place any disclosure requirements on that person on what they do, and that seems a clear problem in the context of provisions that do impose spending caps in local body elections. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003ESimilarly, third parties may choose to make donations to a campaign ticket. Increasingly, it is a common thing in local body elections for candidates to stand under a common ticket. If a third party decided to make a donation to that ticket, but not to the individual candidate on that ticket, that, again, would be subject to no additional scrutiny. There is no requirement to disclose the donation and no cap on the spending. That could be spent on general advertising for the ticket, effectively promoting those candidates, but as long as it was not assigned to one of them in particular, it would not be captured by the provisions in this bill. That seems clearly unfair and clearly against the spirit of having campaign spending caps in local body elections. It is my view, and the view of the Green Party, that this issue should have been given greater attention in this bill, but I was pleased to see that it was recognised by the committee in its report, which noted that the regulation of third-party spending is \u201Cabsolutely necessary to prevent inequities in the future.\u201D I want to congratulate my fellow members on the select committee on this item, and I am really pleased to see it recognised. It is just a shame that we could not get that provision into this bill in time for it to come back at the second reading. I was encouraged, however, to hear the chair of the committee, Scott Simpson, in his contribution earlier express the hope that the Government might consider regulating the spending of third parties through a Supplementary Order Paper in the Committee stage, and I hope very much that we will see that in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EAnother area of concern to us in this bill is the new powers given to the Minister of Local Government to adjourn local body elections in the case of a natural disaster or similar disruption. Currently, the electoral officer is allowed to adjourn the close of voting by up to 14 days, and certainly in light of the experience in Christchurch with the devastating earthquakes, we can see that there is a rationale for granting some greater flexibility to suspend for longer and to suspend other parts of the election as well as just the close of voting\u2014nomination day, for example. But we do not see why it should be the Minister of Local Government, through Order in Council, who has this discretion to do that, particularly given the current Government\u2019s enthusiasm for postponing local elections at Environment Canterbury. It is not especially encouraging to give this power to the Minister, and it is our submission that that power should be exercised not by the Minister of Local Government but by the electoral officer, who is the proper person to make that judgment and to suspend the election. If we have to give extra powers, it should be to the electoral officer and not to the Minister. Again, we intend to move amendments to that effect when the time comes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EThere are other provisions we support in this bill that we have heard a little bit about from the Government members. Greater information about candidates will be made available, including whether they live within the boundaries, although a useful clarification from the select committee is to point out that they do not have to disclose their address in order to disclose that. The exclusion of goods and services of a value of $300 or less\u2014again, a sensible amendment made by the select committee. Broadly speaking, we support the provisions of this bill, but, to sum up, the basic change made by this bill is an improvement on the status quo, and we support it. But it could have done so much more, perhaps most important to regulate third-party spending in local body elections. It is a missed opportunity to achieve what the Minister himself has said was the aim of this legislation to bring it into line with the provisions for general elections. It is a great shame that it does not do that, but we do support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u00225667b017f372426c80af2bdaa7d18963\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225667b017f372426c80af2bdaa7d18963\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Assistant Speaker. I rise to take a call on the Local Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2) in its second reading. I just want to acknowledge the previous speaker, Holly Walker, who is a constructive contributor to our Justice and Electoral Committee. I also want to acknowledge our previous chair, the honourable Tim Macindoe, who ably led us through the electoral amendment legislation and also through the submissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThere is one thing, though, that I must say about our Green member and about transparency and accountability. If I recall, it was last year when the Green Party did not have transparency and accountability when it did not disclose that some of its paid staff members were paid to solicit signatures from the public for the referendum. Again, there was a lack of transparency and accountability there. It just somewhat confuses me a little bit about that. In fact\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f7c2e38b4fa444c91346788d15a66d6\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They were caught.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fe65efa096a4813b6aaaf365293bd76\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have got it just fresh off the boat that they were caught out\u2014they were actually caught out. They were not transparent, and they were not accountable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe Justice and Electoral Committee and its changes have been significant. There is growing public pressure and concern about transparency and accountability, especially around candidate donations, and particularly around anonymous donations. We are clear about that. But the thing is Labour passed the current loose provisions around anonymous donations and had 9 years to fix them. Instead, they waited until they were in Opposition before saying anything. The thing is changes around the local electoral donations will bring the Local Electoral Act closer in line with the Electoral Act. But Labour seems to forget somewhat that both major Auckland mayoral candidates were able to receive substantial anonymous donations under Labour\u2019s legislation. These changes will improve that transparency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThese changes also reflect the recommendations from the Local Government Commission\u2019s review of the Local Electoral Act. We feel that as a select committee we have put these amendments through, we have listened to the submissions, and we feel this adequately reflects the concerns of the public, and, most important, the value of trust that we in this Parliament have heard the issues about transparency and accountability and they will be addressed in this Local Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2). I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u0022eeddb5b56bc944c286af84c407919a4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eeddb5b56bc944c286af84c407919a4c\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E This bill, the Local Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2), should probably be renamed the \u201CJohn Banks Problem Avoidance Bill\u201D, because that is a big part of it. The other main provisions of the bill amend the Local Electoral Act 2001 to improve consistency with the Electoral Act 1993 regarding electoral donations and expenses, limit the amount or value of anonymous donations, refine the definition of \u201Canonymous\u201D and \u201Cdonation\u201D, enhance the obligations of candidates for the disclosure, reporting, and recording of electoral donations\u2014something I think Mr Banks should note very well if he can remember to do so\u2014and introduce penalties for non-compliance. But, as I will say later, it does fail to address some important issues, and a previous speaker has mentioned some of those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ESomething else that the bill does do in clause 15 is require that a candidate profile statement include whether or not the candidate\u2019s principle place of residence is in the local government area in question. That is something that people have wanted to see for quite a long time. The word \u201Carea\u201D means a ward or a similar division within a local council\u2019s boundaries. It does not preclude, of course, a candidate from standing if living outside the area and it does not preclude him or her stating what connections he or she has with the area. In fact, it would encourage people with a connection other than residence to make it clear why they should be elected to represent the area in question. Of course, some people who do live within the area may, in fact, have been there a very short time and not have a genuine connection with it. Voters will need to be aware that just living within an area is not necessarily a genuine longstanding connection with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EBut the most important new provisions concern anonymous donations. This has been the source of continuing problems, as we know\u2014especially John Banks\u2019 issues with claimed anonymous donations to his last Auckland mayoralty campaign. As a result there is widespread concern about what appears to have taken place concerning Mr Banks\u2019 return and anonymous donations. The bill contains several new sections about donations. We now have a new definition of what an \u201Celectoral donation\u201D is in new section 103A inserted by clause 27. This section clarifies what goods and services are to be included and establishes a threshold of $300 for the purpose. It excludes labour provided free of charge, as of course it must. The Justice and Electoral Committee has recommended another provision in schedule 1 requiring candidates to disclose a return of electoral donations and expenses for each office for which the candidate has stood in the election and also that the candidate should be required to specify the campaign to which an anonymous donation of over $1,500 was designated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe bill as introduced does not specify any particular limitation period for prosecuting offences under the Act. Because the offences of filing a false return and arranging to circumvent the $1,500 limit on anonymous donations involve elements of fraud and dishonesty, a relatively long time frame for investigation and prosecution is needed. The select committee has therefore recommended amending clause 36 by adding a new section 138AA that specifies the time frame for prosecuting the new offences in new sections 112D and 103I as 6 months from the date on which the prosecutor is satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to warrant the commencement of proceedings, but, of course, no later than 3 years after the offence was committed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe Banks situation demonstrates why that time frame in needed. Concerning the John Banks problem\u2014at least the one we can address is this bill\u2014the bill does address the one matter that John Banks\u2019 electoral return for the 2010 local body elections has highlighted. It has revealed a gap in the existing legislation allowing persons acting for candidates to call donations anonymous that they did know or ought to have known were not, in fact, anonymous donations. Clause 27 inserts new section 103F, which says: \u201CIf any person involved in the administration of the affairs of a candidate in relation to his or her election campaign knows the identity of the donor of an anonymous donation exceeding $1,500, the person must disclose the identity of the donor to the candidate.\u201D I do worry a little that it will be necessary to prove actual knowledge under that section, which may be difficult, and that perhaps the words \u201Cor ought to have known\u201D should also have been included, but the select committee did not agree with me on that. Nevertheless, this is a satisfactory new provision, which will help solve the \u201CBanks problem\u201D, as I think of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E The bill also provides in new section 103H inserted by clause 27 that an anonymous donation may not exceed $1,500 and that \u201C(1) If an anonymous donation exceeding $1,500 is received by a candidate in relation to an election campaign, the candidate must, within 20 working days of receiving the donation, pay to the electoral officer responsible for the conduct of the election to which that campaign relates the amount of the donation, or its value, less $1,500.\u201D Section 103H(2) also states: \u201CIf an anonymous donation exceeding $1,500 is received by a candidate who is seeking election to more than 1 office, the candidate must\u2014(a) designate 1 election campaign for election to 1 office for which the donation will be used;\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ESection 103I provides for offences relating to contravention of section 103H, and it says that \u201CA person who enters into an agreement, arrangement, or understanding with any other person that has the effect of circumventing section 103H(1) or (2) commits an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $5,000.\u201D, and that a candidate who contravenes the section would also commit an offence and be liable to a similar fine. So that is a good step forward. It does help solve, I think, the Banks problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe bill provides for postponement of a local election. I note that the Green Party has expressed concern about the new powers given to the Minister of Local Government to adjourn elections in the case of natural disasters and other such emergencies. The bill would allow the whole election to be postponed by Order in Council by up to 6 weeks at the discretion of the Minister. The Greens\u2019 concern is that it gives the Minister excessive powers, but I note that new section 73A(6) in clause 21 says: \u201CBefore recommending the making of the Order in Council, the Minister\u2014(a) must be satisfied, on reasonable grounds, that the order is necessary to ensure that the adverse effects of an emergency (whether local or national) or of anything referred to in section 73(1)(a) to (d) do not deny electors a reasonable opportunity to cast a valid vote, nominate a candidate, or accept nomination as a candidate in relation to the election; and (b) must have consulted every local authority and electoral officer that will be affected.\u201D So I think that section 73A(6) does sufficiently limit the Minister\u2019s discretion about postponement and would preclude the sort of Environment Canterbury situation that the Greens seem to be most concerned about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThere is, however, one very serious defect in the bill\u2014and it is the one mentioned by other speakers\u2014and that is the gap concerning third-party campaigners being able to receive donations and to promote a candidate without that candidate\u2019s permission. There has not been time to address that so far, but I do trust that before this bill comes into force the Government will see that that matter is addressed and is included in the legislation. Overall, the bill is a good one and does deserve support, but I note that there it is still work in progress. It is a shame that that work has not been done already. However, assuming that it will be, New Zealand First will be happy to continue to support the bill as amended by the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u00223c776f7f298e4c5b90d47a7831e176d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c776f7f298e4c5b90d47a7831e176d7\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Can I say it is a real pleasure for me to take a very brief call in support of the second reading of the Local Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2). As a recent attendee at the Justice and Electoral Committee, can I commend what I think is now a very collaborative and usually bipartisan or multipartisan approach. The irony is that the last time I was on the Justice and Electoral Committee temporarily was for the Electoral Finance Bill, and I would have to say that that process was a shocker and an embarrassment to the select committee process. I think, and I would hope, and I am optimistic that Parliament has learnt from those mistakes, because I have the view that constitutional reform and electoral reform require a high threshold of consensus rather than party politics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003ECan I also say in supporting this bill that laws alone cannot, however, bring integrity to our electoral system. We had in my own electorate a $20,000 donation\u2014admittedly, it was disclosed\u2014in return for help with a subdivision. Whether that is money for policy I do not know, but there will be some who think that there is a huge stench in that. The difficulty with that is that once that donation is disclosed it is too late because the vote has already been passed. Some will say that $20,000 for help in a subdivision is not right. It is not illegal, but integrity is more than the laws. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003ESo it is up to us as representatives in this Parliament to ensure not only that we obey the law but that we obey the spirit of the law, and that we show good leadership so that our community can have trust and confidence in the integrity of our electoral system. This bill goes a long way towards that, but it is not all of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002289db61e961224ad99a275b1bc9225e2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289db61e961224ad99a275b1bc9225e2b\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call on the Local Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2). What a pity that in a debate that has been free of the usual sorts of recriminations and acrimony that sometimes characterise debate in this House, the last member who spoke, Kate Wilkinson, should descend into vague, non-specific allegations on matters concerning her electorate. It was also disappointing that the honourable member Alfred Ngaro should retreat to the age-old cries, which, frankly, are becoming a little boring now, that Labour had 9 years to do something but did not. Then he said that both mayoral candidates for the 2010 Auckland mayoralty received donations, and he completely overlooked the fact that the origins of this bill have one place\u2014one place\u2014and it starts with a member who sits on the benches opposite me. The grubby, nasty actions of that member have prompted the enactment of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EYou know, the pity of it is\u2014and it is disappointing that the members opposite do not recognise it\u2014that once upon a time we had a culture in this country, whether it was around elections or whether it was around the running of businesses, that people did not comply just with the letter of the law but with the spirit of it. People understood that in a civilised society we have rules and we have laws, that they are there for good reason, and that they are about respecting each other and therefore respecting the law. In the last few years, the last couple of decades, that value and those principles have gone out the window. We now have a culture where that is regarded as acceptable, usually by people who flutter on the right, politically, and who no longer care about the spirit of the law. It is just a black letter. The first question to be asked by those on the right is \u201CWhat can I get away with? What can I do that is on the margins of the law, because I don\u2019t have to worry about values and principles and the spirit of the law any more?\u201D. This legislation, this bill tonight, has as its origins actions that have that flavour written all over them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe thing is that it is bad enough that in our history we have seen some pretty bad shenanigans when it comes to central government elections, but we never had local body elections infected and contaminated as badly. We never saw the chicanery, the double-dealing, and the manipulation that we saw in the 2010 Auckland mayoral election. It was that event, and that event alone, that has prompted this House to have to give its time and attention to this legislation. It all changed in 2010. It all changed. We have crossed the Rubicon and we will never go back. So we have now had to do what I think probably eventually, historically, will be seen as a sensible change, which is to align the electoral laws covering local government elections with those covering general elections. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EBut let us not forget that it all started in Auckland. This bill owes its existence to one person who sits in this House, and that is John Banks. He forgot about and did not properly declare donations from Kim Dotcom, the largest, most colourful figure involved with New Zealand politics in a generation. John Banks did not think to properly declare his Skycity donation that he received, in cash, in envelopes, personally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWhat we have seen is that our ethical standards have dropped. You know, the pity of it too is that when members of the Government and members representing this Government, including the Prime Minister, had the opportunity to indicate that they actually did want to see better ethical standards, they fluffed the opportunity. They failed the test. When the Prime Minister, John Key, was confronted about what sort of ethical standard we are operating at now he said: \u201CThere is quite a wide definition of ethics. The test I have to apply is the law.\u201D What a disappointment. It is no longer about principles and the spirit of the law; it is about the black letter of the law. This is in contrast to what the Cabinet Manual says, which is that \u201CMinisters are expected to act lawfully and to behave in a way that upholds, and is seen to uphold, the highest ethical standards.\u201D So we now have to introduce this legislation to try to get some flavour of that into local government. That is why we are doing this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThere have been some good changes recommended, coming out of the select committee process\u2014things like the residence disclosure. For example, if you do not live in the ward that you are standing for or in the area that you are standing for, you will have to disclose that. It does not prevent you from being a candidate in the ward, but people should know. It is good to have the warning on the voting documents about interference in the way people vote. It is good to not have the costs of hoardings, particularly the timber involved in hoardings, accounted for, because we know that that is material that is used and recycled from election to election. It is good that we now have the rules clarified, at least for local government elections, on the publication of returns, and that they can be published online. It is good also that the time frames about prosecuting breaches of electoral laws in local government elections are clarified. Maybe, perhaps in the Committee stage, we might debate whether or not the prosecution of breaches of electoral law might also be open for private prosecution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThere is, however, still a gap in all this, and it was a problem raised before the Justice and Electoral Committee by Alan McRobie, who is an expert in this country on local government elections. It was a problem that he observed in an election, whereby the goods and services that are offered on a recurring basis for below market rates and also below the threshold of $300 might actually lead to an abuse. The example he gave was of a small community newspaper. It happened to be in Kaiapoi\u2014and we know how important Kaiapoi is to the New Zealand Labour Party, because that is where one of our greatest leaders, Norman Kirk, got his political head start\u2014where there was this rort played out. Selected candidates who were regarded with favour by the editor of a small community newspaper were given heavily discounted advertising space. On each occasion it was a small-value transaction, but they all flew under the radar, and even in aggregate terms the value of that contribution from that editor was not declared and did not have to be declared. We need to make sure that a rort like that is captured under this legislation. I am not confident that it is captured in the wording of the legislation now, but that is a matter that we can deal with in the Committee stage. Given the general consensus that we are arriving at around this legislation, I would hope that that would be given a good audience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EOn that basis, as my colleagues have said, we support this legislation. It is timely. The circumstances under which it has had to arrive in this House and we are having to debate it are disappointing, but it will be good law. It will have the support of the House, and Labour will support it, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u0022608a8d44fe724b3fada7efbad29f7323\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022608a8d44fe724b3fada7efbad29f7323\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to speak to the second reading of this Local Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2). It does modernise local electoral law and improve the transparency of local electoral donations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EWe admit there has been growing concern over transparency and accountability of candidate donations, particularly anonymous donations, and this bill addresses those concerns. It improves the provisions for the conduct of local elections, increases transparency and accountability in relation to donations, and strengthens the integrity of the local electoral system. Of course, this legislation is planned to be passed by May this year, in time for local authority elections by October this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe Justice and Electoral Committee made some pragmatic changes and they include the candidate profile statements. They will have to state whether the candidate\u2019s principal place of residence is within the local government area in question. We know, from the last local body elections, that there were some individuals who stood for multiple positions, and I think it is fair enough that the voters know where that individual resides. This is a good bill, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022577b3173064e4d739670fd22192cc1ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022577b3173064e4d739670fd22192cc1ec\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the honourable member Carol Beaumont and inform the House that this is a split call. Is that correct?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u0022372a9a69588e4bb08e640e0c8216bc7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022372a9a69588e4bb08e640e0c8216bc7b\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak, as my colleagues have, in favour of the Local Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2). This bill amends the Local Electoral Act 2001 and includes, as others have perhaps mentioned, limiting the size of anonymous donations; expanding the existing definition of anonymous to include situations where the candidate could not reasonably know the identity of the donor, unlike situations we have talked about tonight with Mr John Banks where, quite clearly, he knew the identity of the donor; requiring third parties receiving donations on behalf of candidates to disclose their identity; and various other disclosure and reporting obligations. They are all positive things and, as the speaker from New Zealand First said, probably this should be called something like the \u201CJohn Banks Memorial Bill\u201D. It is probably one of the few things I can think of that we have got to thank John Banks for, because, after all, he has not done too many other positive things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThis bill was originally proposed as a Labour member\u2019s bill. David Cunliffe had a bill that tried to, basically, look at provisions of the Electoral Act coming across and being applied in the local electoral situation, and I think it is really important that we do that. Democracy requires us to have a process that gives voters confidence. That confidence has been absolutely undermined by the behaviour of people like John Banks and, indeed, the Prime Minister, in the way that he has handled this mess. What it makes people think is that politicians lie, that they are deceitful, and that they hide things when they obviously know about them. Democracy requires us to have a process where there is transparency and where limits are placed on campaign funding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe behaviour over 2011 and 2012 around the Skycity donation, the Kim Dotcom donation, and all of that was absolutely disgraceful, and it did undermine the integrity of our democracy and public confidence. It smelt bad and it was bad. There were a lot of double standards at play in that period of time. The Prime Minister and his lack of requirement for accountability, his failure to address this with John Banks, and his methods of trying to hide what was really going on\u2014all of that was part of the bad smell around this. As others have reminded the House, the police report did not really clear John Banks; it was pretty clear that there just was not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b7c35829ad74c1a863694cf9b75591a\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: He did it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a105cb8079b0437fac942b519d7cbfa0\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT\u003C/span\u003E: That is right, indeed. So I think that that is something that is important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI just wanted to note that, in reading the select committee report, I think the Justice and Electoral Committee obviously did the best it could with the time available, but, as others have said, there are many other areas that do need addressing. I think that, obviously, this needs to be done in the time frame available because of the local government elections this year, but there are ongoing improvements we need. There were some very helpful contributions made around, for example, the unpublished roll, which have not been mentioned but are important. We have to be vigilant to protect our democracy. We need transparency. People need to know there is a level playing field for all candidates. There is much more work to do. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9816feb725442ec862d543c7e4ce7ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9816feb725442ec862d543c7e4ce7ed\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a short call on the Local Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2). The Green Party is pleased to be supporting this bill, because of its purpose of ensuring that there is more consistency between local authority elections and general elections with regard to electoral donations and expenses. Certainly the Local Electoral Act is out of step with the Electoral Act, which regulates parliamentary elections. Although both pieces of legislation were developed in 1993, the Electoral Act has been revised three times in 5 years, to strengthen and clarify its provisions in relation to campaign financing and to provide some additional checks and balances, but the donation provisions of the Local Electoral Act have been reviewed only once, in 2001. So this bill is timely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt is timely, of course, because of the John Banks saga in 2010 and the fact that the saga highlighted that the controls and obligations in the Local Electoral Act on candidates, third parties, donors, and officials were much less robust. Given that in 2010 we had nearly 4,000 candidates standing for 1,900 positions on regional councils, the Auckland Council, community boards, and district health boards, it is really important to ensure that there is public confidence in the electoral process and that there are robust controls around donations. So this bill is really important in improving that transparency, through measures such as the cap of $1,500 on the amount for anonymous donations. It will certainly be a strong incentive for these donations to stay at $1,500 when any excess has to be paid to the local electoral officer. The bill also improves the definitions of words like \u201Canonymous\u201D and \u201Cdonations\u201D, and it certainly strengthens the candidate disclosure reporting and recording requirements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe would like to congratulate the Justice and Electoral Committee. It has done quite substantive work on the bill, and the changes that it has recommended certainly improve the bill. Where there has been this cap of $1,500, that is one example of getting more alignment between local authority elections and parliamentary elections. Another of the changes in the bill requires a transmitter, a third party who receives a donation on behalf of a candidate, to disclose to the candidate the identity of the donor if she or he knows it. That certainly would have been helpful in the John Banks case. Another of these areas of alignment ensures that \u201Celectoral donation\u201D covers things where you have got a difference between the market\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320592340d314404178bbac4a352b923d40000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220627df15485944d08c4e0bfb55fd4ff9\u0022\u003EWednesday, 20 March 2013\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022416fd4da46c44f64aaeafe6f2a89af89\u0022\u003E(continued on Thursday, 21 March 2013)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220a4120f8521f4726a55c2420d08cbe85\u0022\u003ESocial Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e79daa5d96fb40859217bc1744952985\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a687dfc43c2446d8fb51883efd25299\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed6528e121c843ce90adfd8f15f6230d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed6528e121c843ce90adfd8f15f6230d\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I seem to be the only one who is expressing such enthusiasm to speak on the Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill. I rise to share Labour\u2019s support for this bill. I think it is a common-sense change that we will be debating at the Committee stage today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EJust to refresh the memory of the Committee around the purpose of this bill, it will amend the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001 and the War Pensions Act 1954, and it does so in order to simplify the arrangements for those who would be eligible for a living alone payment. Currently, single superannuitants and veterans pensioners who are living alone are eligible for a supplementary benefit, and I think that is common sense. Obviously, the costs of being a single superannuitant\u2014you do not get, I guess, the economies of scale you have when you are in a partnership. But those supplementary benefits are applied for separately, and this bill, instead of having that additional supplementary payment, introduces a new single living alone rate for superannuitants and for veterans pensioners. It is also intended to remove the need to make a separate application for receiving the full entitlement. I think it is also important to point out that often those who are entitled to these single payments become entitled after the passing of a partner or a spouse or a loved one. Trying to simplify this process for them at that point, I think, is not only important but also common sense. There are some issues, therefore, around the transitional arrangements, which I am sure members of this Committee might be interested in canvassing as we debate the individual clauses of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI want to start, though, by looking in a little more detail at the impact of some of the definitions within Part 1. In new section 4A the bill sets out the meaning of \u201Cliving alone\u201D. Given that all of the major parts of this bill hang off that definition, I think it is important to explore it. It sets out that a single person is living alone only if he or she meets two conditions, and they are what you would expect. The first is around dwellings and occupancy, and it sets out there in subsection (2) that \u201CThe first condition is that person A occupies a principal place of residence of a kind described in subsection (6).\u201D That provision is quite detailed; it even goes on to talk about a boat or craft mooring being a suitable residence for that definition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThen it sets out a condition where, probably, there might be a few more issues of debate, and it is that \u201CThe second condition is that person A does not share that residence with any person 18 years or older, except a person to whom subsection (4) or (5) applies.\u201D The bill then sets out that \u201CThis subsection applies to \u201Cperson A\u2019s dependent child\u2014(a) who is\u2014(i) 18 years old \u2026 (ii) not financially independent; and (iii) attending a school or a tertiary educational establishment; but (b) only until the close of 31 December in the year in which the child turned 18 years old.\u201D So if we strip that back, what the bill is saying is that you are entitled to the living alone payment as long as your child is either in secondary school or at a tertiary education institution but under the age of 18 years. So, basically, you are never going to be able to claim the living alone payment if your child is over the age of 18 and outside of secondary school, essentially. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThat may seem to be common sense on the face of it, but we took some issue at the Social Services Committee with the fact that this could be deemed to be a very narrow set of conditions for what sometimes can be extraordinary circumstances. The first of those extraordinary circumstances that I wish to raise is, in fact, where an individual is caring for a dependant who is over the age of 18 and who may have an intellectual disability, for instance, and they have some kind of carer role for that dependant. Technically, once the dependant hits 18, the carer could fall outside of these criteria. One could argue that under the Social Security Act they may be entitled to some other form of benefit, but I think it makes sense that, instead, we make sure we build in enough flexibility to take into account those circumstances without opening it wide enough that it can be used inappropriately\u2014for example, being applied to circumstances where perhaps a DPB for caring for the sick or infirm might be more appropriate instead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBut I think there is a way to deal with both issues. I have tabled for the Committee an amendment to the bill that would allow for those circumstances to be taken into account. It does so by adding to clause 18, in Part 2, the statement \u201Cunless that child has an intellectual disability as defined in section 7 of the Intellectual Disability (Compulsory Care and Rehabilitation) Act 2003\u201D. Just for the benefit of the Committee, that seemed to us to be the most appropriate definition for an individual with an intellectual disability that we could find in modern legislation. So that is the first amendment that we as a party would like to move. It is just to allow that additional flexibility for someone on a living alone payment who has some carer responsibilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe second set of circumstances where we think this definition is too narrow is around the use of age rather than whether or not someone is actually financially dependent. Let me explain what we mean by that. At the moment we are really concerned about only\u2014it does not really matter whether a child is in tertiary education or at high school\u2014whether or not the child is under the age of 18. Why is that? Surely the definition should be set around whether or not that individual in the home is financially dependent. Surely that should be what we consider when we are talking about social assistance in this way. A student who is at a tertiary institution, for the purposes of student allowances, for instance, is considered dependent until they have reached the age of 25, because their student allowance is means tested against their parents\u2019 income. So if you are means testing against a parent, you are assuming some form of dependent relationship still exists, but for the purposes of this bill we are not adding consistency. In fact, we are making it less consistent by saying it is not the age of 25 that we are interested in if you are in tertiary education; it is 18. So it is our view that if someone is in tertiary education and for the purposes of student allowance they continue to be means tested, then that child should be considered still a dependant for the purposes of this bill as well. I am sure that my colleague, the spokesperson on tertiary education for the Labour Party, Megan Woods, would probably like to expand on that in greater detail, but that is one of our other suggested amendments for the Committee today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe are also concerned that if you are a student who is studying, of course, there might be periods when you come back into the home for holidays when you are still a dependent child\u2014I would never assume that child is financially independent\u2014and that could interrupt someone\u2019s ability to access the social assistance living alone payment, just by virtue of a child coming home for the holidays. So we have suggested another amendment that sets out that \u201CA person is living alone if a child over 18 returns to live \u2026 at Person A\u2019s residence and stays there less than 13 weeks in any period of 26 and is not financially independent.\u201D So, basically, if you are a student, you come home to stay with either mum or dad in your holidays, and you are not financially independent, as in you are not in full-time work, then you should not have the effect of reducing your parents\u2019 ability to access this social assistance living alone payment. Again, I think that is a fair amendment to make. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI would appreciate the views of the Government on those amendments. I think they are reasonable ones. We did raise them at the select committee and we did, to be fair, have a quite robust discussion about them. I accept that when it comes to the student allowance side of things there was an argument people accepted. It probably, if anything, points to the inconsistencies around the application of the student allowance regulations more than it does, potentially, for these payments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022 data-id=\u0022091394d865a84e85875d6e4bc11f17a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022091394d865a84e85875d6e4bc11f17a7\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First has always supported legislation that allows all New Zealanders to be afforded the same degree of respect and dignity, which are the principles that reinforce our democratic values. \u201CDemocracy\u201D is a word that is rarely spoken of or has been considered in this Chamber in recent years. If some pensioners fall short of the criterion, then our values are meaningless and exist only for those who benefit from them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EThe Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill is committed to empowering senior citizens to enable them to remain independent and not have to deal with bureaucracy. Bureaucracy is a parasite that is hobbling the ability of civil servants to get things done effectively and efficiently. It is encouraging to see the Government taking the necessary action to look after those who deserve to be cared for. This bill allows for better treatment of superannuitant and veterans pensioners with respect, and not as a burden on society. Our treatment of our seniors sends a clear signal of our status as a developed nation. The intention of this bill is an improvement in pension schemes. It allows for better-practice measures for the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EThe bill highlights the importance of providing support for our senior citizens currently living alone, and allows for a more straightforward approach to their gaining State assistance. If only this approach were adopted more often by this Government, instead of it punishing the most vulnerable unnecessarily. Continuous maltreatment of orphan, superannuitant, and veterans pensioners is disgraceful. Even the Bible says there is a specific place in hell for those who oppress widows. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EWe all know the hassle of paper-shuffling and how this can waste time and resources and cause confusion when there has been a chink in the paper trail. For our senior citizens this can be of particular nuisance. I receive phone calls in my out-of-Parliament office frequently from disgruntled seniors not knowing how to operate the new Auckland train fare machines. I am aware of their frustrations when the simplest things in life become overbearingly difficult. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EThis bill is to be commended for eliminating such unnecessary processes. On account of providing a single rate for superannuitant and veterans pensions, this makes work a lot easier. It makes work a lot easier not only in regard to the eligible citizen\u2019s ease of access but also for the financial parties who have to deal with the amount of data and paperwork that needs to be processed, day in, day out. This combined effort will fortify a single rate that is more reliable and accessible and less time-consuming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EHowever, New Zealand First shares concerns with other parties and with those who submitted on this bill in relation to the definition of a dependent child. The proposed new sections 4A(4)(a) and 4A(4)(b) provide for where a child over the age of 18 is enrolled in tertiary education and is financially dependent on the parent. With the exception of dependent children with disabilities, dependants who are 18 and over would provide more sensible decision-making skills given support for their drive towards higher academic achievements. Jacinda Ardern and I share the same concerns in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EIt is a common trend nowadays. Most tertiary starters begin with university studies at the age of 18. No undergraduate degree lasts for only a year, but for an average of 3 years. This correlates to the years for which they would be considered dependent occupants. Yes, the Ministry of Social Development has commented that tertiary students are of an age where they are considered adults, and should acquire part-time work or apply for the appropriate Government assistance. However, I question whether the person who provided this advice went to university at all, or at least understands it from a tertiary student\u2019s perspective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EIf we are to encourage our children into higher education, why should we then place barriers for our senior parents to give their children this opportunity? I have children who go to university, and I can tell everyone now that if it was not for the scholarships that they earned, the pressure of putting them through university and supporting them would have been placed on me. Full-time students who are at university from Monday to Friday and have only weekends to work part-time will be under enormous stress to support themselves. This does not take into account time to catch up on study or assignments. Not all students are entitled to the subsidies of Government assistance. My children certainly were not, and I would think that this Government would not want its tertiary students on the unemployment benefit. Or is there one rule for one group and a different rule for others? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EPart-time jobs are not easy to get either, with employers looking for experience. Furthermore, employers are most reluctant to train up students who can work only a certain number of hours. I am amazed at the lack of intelligence being exercised by the Minister for Social Development and her advisers in this area. Most students can hold down a part-time job only over the summer and then are left to fend for themselves. We cannot give them jobs, because we are still waiting for the 170,000 jobs promised by the Prime Minister, so why should we give them and their senior parents the added pressure? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is prepared to work with all members on both sides of the Chamber to preserve the social security promise that provides security for all when the need arises, especially those who are most at risk, such as widows. I would like to remind the Committee that Robert Louis Stevenson said: \u201CDon\u2019t judge each day by the harvest you reap but by the seeds that you plant.\u201D New Zealand First supports the bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00220f0e55e6ab32478d86e0ef87d70546bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f0e55e6ab32478d86e0ef87d70546bb\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to take a short call on this bill, the Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill. As my colleague Jacinda Ardern has very well outlined, Labour is supporting this bill because it is a sensible bill, and we are happy to support it to make sure that the issues addressed in it are no longer an issue for the elderly in our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI want to talk specifically to one of the amendments that Labour has put up on this bill. Jacinda Ardern foreshadowed the part that I will be speaking on, and the previous speaker, Le\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor, has alluded to the amendment, as well. It is the amendment that harmonises this piece of legislation with the student allowance legislation\u2014brings it into line with it. We think that it is a very sensible move to redefine the age of eligibility of students to 24 years old, as they are classed as dependants in that student allowance legislation. We think that this is needed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EStudent support is an issue that we are facing as a country, and we are facing it increasingly as a country. If we do want to be an innovation-led economy that bases our prosperity, our future, and our future economic development on having an educated, skilled, and trained workforce, then how are we going to support our young people to gain these qualifications that are going to be of benefit to all of us in New Zealand? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker alluded to some comments that the Ministry of Social Development made in regard to some of these suggestions as they came up, that perhaps tertiary students\u2014those over the age of 18 who were engaged in tertiary education\u2014could go and find part-time work and support themselves. Well, this is a very interesting question at the moment, because, of course, in the context of the youth rates legislation that we are also seeing going through this House, we see that the Ministry of Education provided advice to StudyLink\u2014the bit of the Ministry of Social Development that administers student allowances\u2014that the $11-an-hour rate, 80 percent of the full adult minimum wage, that is proposed in that legislation actually does pose some threats in terms of our students being able to support themselves. So there are a whole lot of intersecting pieces of information that we have to take into account. That is why Labour has put up this very sensible amendment, which would bring this piece of legislation in line with definitions that we have operating around that very important issue of student allowances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe think this is something that we do need to get right. We need to iron out some absurd situations that could come about. A situation that my colleague Jacinda Ardern outlined is about a tertiary student who has gone away to polytech or gone away to university in another part of the country, and comes back over the long summer break to stay with their parents\u2014as all parents want their students who go away for tertiary education to do. Then we have the situation of what happens in terms of the classification of dependency and how this would affect the payment. So let us just use this opportunity to make sure that this is a sensible piece of legislation and takes this into account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe think that there are many good elements to this legislation. We think that it will improve the lives of older New Zealanders by reducing their requirement to make additional applications to receive their full entitlement. We agree with many of the technical changes that it makes possible. One that I wanted to speak to was one that I saw around the 28-day period when the spouse of an elderly person passes away and when it is they make their application, and when their eligibility for that kicks in. These are all things that we need to make as smooth and as easy as possible to reduce the amount of administrative burden that is on our elderly people while, at the same time, ensuring that they are receiving an income that they can survive on and that they can live alone on. Labour is happy to support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u002248959c4eed994591b41a6a214a62cb12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248959c4eed994591b41a6a214a62cb12\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS (Associate Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E I thought I would rise just to address some of the comments that have been made by speakers in respect of amendments filed in respect of this bill, the Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill, and to address concerns around tertiary students and people living alone. It is important to note a comment that my colleague Jacinda Ardern made about the significance of age. Under the Social Security Act the significance of age is that from the age of 18, that is the age from which people become entitled to various types of benefits. In respect of children living with their parents who are in receipt of the living alone payment, for listeners, those young people can come back and live with their superannuitant parent for a period of 13 weeks in any 26-week period\u2014so about 3 months\u2014without affecting that living alone payment that their parent might be getting. Another point to make, of course, is that while a tertiary student is on a summer break and away from their tertiary studies they may not receive a student allowance but they are eligible for a hardship benefit\u2014in other words, for getting an unemployment benefit\u2014over the course of the holiday period if they are not in work. If that young person is disabled in some way, then, over the age of 18, they would be eligible for a benefit, which caters for caring and caters for the disability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003ESo it is difficult, then, to think of any situation where a person over the age of 18 would not be eligible for some sort of a benefit, and I note that the people proposing these amendments were not able to give us a situation where they would not be eligible for anything. The comment was made that a tertiary student up to the age of 25 has their parents\u2019 income assessed, so there is an element of dependency there. Just to be picky, it is actually 24. In any event, though, that tertiary student is not disallowed from having the ability to obtain a benefit of some kind and some allowance for them because of the mere fact that they would be living with their parent or because of their parents\u2019 income. They are still eligible for those things. So the Government will not be supporting the amendments, for those reasons. The Supplementary Order Paper that the Government is putting up, Supplementary Order Paper 191, is relating to the dates and the timeliness of the passage of this bill in respect of other work going on within the department.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u00228ad84c0b760642e49da98ad8e6d8fb0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ad84c0b760642e49da98ad8e6d8fb0c\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to make a short contribution in the Committee stage of the Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill. As my colleagues have already stated, we support this bill. It is a very sensible bill, and it does address a lot of some of the inconvenient processes that many of our kaum\u0101tua and kuia and superannuitants around the country have had to face in terms of having to make separate applications for living alone payments. Goodness knows how difficult that is in terms of them not only getting through their weekly budgets but also having to navigate their way through all the different processes and applications that they have to do to get a little bit of p\u016Btea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESo we do support this bill. It ensures that the single superannuitants and veterans pensioners who are living alone do not have to make that separate application to get their full entitlement. We support it because it improves the lives of older New Zealanders and it reduces their requirement to, as I have said, make all these additional applications to receive those extra living alone payments. We do acknowledge the Government for reducing the burden of compliance on single superannuitants. It is a good measure, which improves the lives of older New Zealanders, who, indeed, as with many New Zealanders out there, are finding it very tough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThe Social Services Committee had the chance to hear submissions, and has recommended some changes. One change has been in regard to the unfortunate situation where a spouse or partner has passed on prior to the commencement of the Act but within the time frames in which applications are to be made. It is very commendable to see that spouses in that situation will not have to be impacted on, in terms of having to qualify for the payment, because of arbitrary time frames and commencement dates. It is good to see that some flexibility has been given and some fairness applied to those situations, so that the full entitlement to the living alone payment can apply from the date of the death of that spouse prior to the commencement of the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI would also like to speak in support of my colleague Jacinda Ardern and her amendment in relation to Part 1. It relates to raising the age. Notwithstanding the comments from the Minister in the chair, the Associate Minister for Social Development Chester Borrows, I know that the Government will not be supporting this amendment. We do think that it is necessary to align this living alone payment with the harmonising of the student allowance regime, because there are many situations where kaum\u0101tua and kuia around the country are looking after their mokos, and when those mokos get to 18 it does not just kick in. Obviously, the Government is putting a cut-off date at 18, but there are situations\u2014and I am thinking of those who may be disabled, or other situations around their tertiary education\u2014where that does put an extra burden on their koro or kuia, or t\u0101ua and p\u0101ua, as we call them in the South Island. So I do encourage and recommend that we support that amendment in the name of Jacinda Ardern. It lifts the age to 25, which does capture all of those situations and makes sure that the living alone payment is available for kaum\u0101tua and kuia in that situation. That completes my contribution on this part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022361ddd1f1c8b45108925abe283e78854\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022361ddd1f1c8b45108925abe283e78854\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to thank the Associate Minister for Social Development Chester Borrows for his contribution. I note, though, that he did not speak specifically to the amendment around the issue of disabled children. I would be interested in hearing his views on that particular amendment. I think the point still stands there, as I think the point still stands around the issue of those dependent children who might be in study but, for the purposes of this bill, will affect the eligibility of their parent for a living alone payment if they are over the age of 18. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EDespite what the Minister has said, it seems to me that this has been an issue in the past. If you read the regulatory impact statement, there is some discussion in the statement, which, of course, was prepared by the Ministry of Social Development. It says: \u201CFor the purpose of determining eligibility for social security benefits, section 63A of the Social Security Act \u2026 sets out the circumstances in which a child aged 18 years or over is considered to be a dependent child. Our analysis has identified issues with the consistency of this definition across social security legislation.\u201D It goes on to talk about a specific case where this has been an issue: \u201CA recent decision by the Social Security Appeal Authority (SSAA Decision No. 38/09) has highlighted an inconsistency between the definitions of a dependent child as it applies to a child aged 18 years or over. This decision found that an adult child (ie over 18 years) who is maintained as a member of a superannuitant\u2019s family, and is not financially independent, may be categorised as a dependent child for the purposes of eligibility for the [living alone payment].\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThere has already been a case that has highlighted that this can, indeed, be an issue, and that, according to the Social Security Appeal Authority, it needs to come down on the side of the entitlement remaining, because of the fact that the adult child can still be considered a dependent child because of their circumstances. There is some further clarification, though, admittedly, and we concede this point. This will not apply to a large number of parents and their children, but it does clarify that \u201CThe Ministry is of the view that it is very unlikely many other cases will arise, as the situation applies only to superannuitants living with a student with no income other than a Student Loan (but not a Student Allowance).\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThis has been our point\u2014that there will be students who will not be eligible for a student allowance. They may access a student loan, but they may be living with someone who is eligible for a living alone payment, and because they are over the age of 18, the crude definition in the bill means that that living alone payment could be affected by that. No one is arguing that this is going to be a really prevalent situation, but what we are arguing is that it could occur and that it would be wrong if it did, and the regulatory impact statement admits that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThere is some admission in here that there is some discretion for the chief executive \u201Cto continue paying a benefit at a rate \u2026 until the pay day immediately after 31 December in the year that the child reaches the age of 18 years.\u201D, but we should not ever allow these things to be determined by discretion when we know the issue exists and we have the ability within primary legislation to fix it. So this is something that we are asking the Minister to fix. We are at a point now where we can fix it. We have evidence that it has arisen before. Why should we have to require people to go via an appeal authority to have it addressed? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ESo I would like the Minister\u2019s thoughts on that, but I equally, really, would like to hear his views on the definition of \u201Cdependent child\u201D as it applies to a child who may have an intellectual disability, because equally we feel that that particular issue has gone unanswered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 191 in the name of the Hon Paula Bennett to Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Jacinda Ardern to clause 5 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003Einsert in new section 4A(4)(b), after \u201C18 years old\u201D, \u201Cunless that child has an intellectual disability as defined in section 7 of the Intellectual Disability (Compulsory Care and Rehabilitation) Act 2003\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question that the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022d75c3535aab240388df5d5a3100e8c64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d75c3535aab240388df5d5a3100e8c64\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I have spoken to the co-leader of the M\u0101ori Party, who has authorised me to vote for him, although he is in the Chamber this morning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022649c721e36b842c983940fcc8063a7b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022649c721e36b842c983940fcc8063a7b1\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: No. Unfortunately, the Standing Orders say that if the party is present, it has to vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228c5a81a06cd64b0fa5b798858d738aaa\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000050\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Jacinda Ardern to clause 5 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000051\u0022\u003Ein new section 4A(4)(b), replace \u201C18\u201D with \u201C25\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228ab1eaa70ac449b392e8d2d9cc7f1789\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000052\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Jacinda Ardern to clause 5 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000053\u0022\u003EInsert in new section 4A(4), after paragraph (b):\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000054\u0022\u003E(c)\ta person is living alone if a child over 18 returns to live with at Person A\u2019s residence and stays there less than 13 weeks in any period of 26 and is not financially independent.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fb1f677ac0eb42a19f9a0f4045ebdd3c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000055\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00223e3810e0f0364d59aea2f2246762c1ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e3810e0f0364d59aea2f2246762c1ef\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I did not hear, I am sorry, what that question was. Would you mind repeating what the question was?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7e72ca498bc4404b3d400dedbd53c3e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: It has been carried that Part 1 as amended stand part. It has now been agreed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022254547f5e58043d9a659f5fdd0618ca0\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: The reason for my confusion was that I thought there were more amendments than in fact there were votes taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd95f4c832c2480eaa41ecf3398bf05a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd95f4c832c2480eaa41ecf3398bf05a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I think I enunciated it quite clearly. It has been passed unanimously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b9e50bc369b046c2a8068e5d41e2657b\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to War Pensions Act 1954\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000061\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 191 in the name of the Hon Paula Bennett to Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000062\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000063\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Jacinda Ardern to clause 18 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000064\u0022\u003Einsert in new section 67(A)(4)(b), after \u201C18 years old\u201D, \u201Cunless that child has an intellectual disability as defined in section 7 of the Intellectual Disability (Compulsory Care and Rehabilitation) Act 2003\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000065\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question that the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022d00acca6292a4554888a8ec943cafcea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d00acca6292a4554888a8ec943cafcea\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I do apologise for this, but, as you will understand, there is a need for me to be coordinating with the M\u0101ori Party. It is my understanding that the M\u0101ori Party is opposed both to the Social Assistance (Living Alone Payments) Amendment Bill and to the amendments. Therefore, in the substantive vote on Part 1 previously\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3f270a993f642e8ad221c190b68a4b2\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: We will deal with that after we have dealt with this amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d84cdf6ef154fec889cfa47a8dc1c0e\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: I am just signalling there will need to be a correction to a vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00225d8a7c7886ab4c1bb74eb181826de20e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d8a7c7886ab4c1bb74eb181826de20e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: OK. We will deal with that when we have dealt with this amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221b58f8447814402194b5c4a6215ba7c4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2949b7748344a12a3f446518b90d92b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2949b7748344a12a3f446518b90d92b\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to correct the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s vote on Part 1 of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe59d917c4da475aa65862ad23d6d5e7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: On the question that Part 1 as amended stand part, the M\u0101ori Party is now voting three opposed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277bc147ece7f412eac55c9a2faf2fb40\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: The M\u0101ori Party is three votes opposed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00222f477e6b57f74985b4323e389cdaf078\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f477e6b57f74985b4323e389cdaf078\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. We did not actually cast a vote. I put the question and there were no Noes at that point, so we actually had no party vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Jacinda Ardern to clause 18 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003Ein new section 67A(4)(b), replace \u201C18\u201D with \u201C25\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fba0e2bba5704e67a26c447197d46817\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000076\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Jacinda Ardern to clause 18 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000077\u0022\u003EInsert in new section 67A(4), after new paragraph (b):\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000078\u0022\u003E(c)\ta person is living alone if a child over 18 returns to live at Person A\u2019s residence and stays there less than 13 weeks in any period of 26 weeks and is not financially independent.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223780c5a78c07491084d1c0f1de50fc7c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000079\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000080\u0022\u003ESchedule agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022102c25914ea74b51bc1dff5b416b5344\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000082\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000083\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 191 in the name of the Hon Paula Bennett to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000084\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000085\u0022\u003EClause 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000086\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000087\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221626592267724c579f7b137d9722a68f\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c7a1185c25374139aea1f569b84ca323\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u00223946af6fdab74094b5f24da333babe03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223946af6fdab74094b5f24da333babe03\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES (Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the M\u0101ori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 23 July 2013 and that the committee have the authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting, except during oral questions, during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 188 and 191(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EM\u0101 t\u0101tou. Koia r\u0101 te karanga o Whakaata M\u0101ori ki a Aotearoa wh\u0101nui.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E[It is for us. That is the call of the M\u0101ori Television Service to New Zealand at large.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe launch of the M\u0101ori Television Service in 2004 was a watershed moment for M\u0101ori people and, indeed, all New Zealanders. It transformed the media landscape in this country. It made our language and culture accessible to a broad viewing audience. For M\u0101ori it has meant the celebration and normalisation of our language, our tikanga, and our people. I am delighted to celebrate its achievements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi M\u0101ori) Act 2003 established the M\u0101ori Television Service. It also specified that a review of the operation and the effectiveness of the Act be undertaken in 2008-09, with a report to Parliament and recommendations for any amendments to the foundation legislation. The review was conducted by an independent panel with expertise in Te Reo M\u0101ori, the television industry, and the broadcasting legislation. The panel members were Tainui Stephens, Hone Edwards and Jane H\u016Bria. Their subsequent report contained 31 recommendations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Finance and I are the responsible Ministers for the M\u0101ori Television Service. We worked with Te P\u016Btahi Paoho, the M\u0101ori Television Service Electoral College, to jointly review the recommendations from the independent panel. We did this in 2009-10. Following this, Cabinet approved in principle the Government response to the review in October 2010, including various proposed changes to the foundation legislation subject to targeted consultation with M\u0101ori. At the time Cabinet deferred consideration of the four recommendations concerning the composition of Te P\u016Btahi Paoho, so that this work could be synchronised with some related work streams in the M\u0101ori affairs portfolio. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003ETe Puni K\u014Dkiri undertook targeted consultation hui with M\u0101ori in 2010 and in 2011 to discuss the proposed legislative changes. No concerns were raised at these hui about the proposed approach, and the Government subsequently confirmed the proposed legislative changes as a basis for this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThere is general agreement that the M\u0101ori Television Service does an excellent job with its core business. On that basis we are not proposing major changes to its underlying legislation. We do, however, seek to fine-tune this legislation so that the M\u0101ori Television Service is optimally positioned for digital switchover and can continue its strong focus on promoting our language, our culture. Digital switchover is scheduled for completion in December 2013. We intend to enact this bill in 2013 so that the M\u0101ori Television Service is ready to go digital. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe bill seeks to make minor changes to the functions of the M\u0101ori Television Service to strengthen its focus on M\u0101ori language and culture. It will also update arrangements for spectrum management and the contents of M\u0101ori Television Service accountability documents. It addresses arrangements for borrowing and investment by the M\u0101ori Television Service and also the timeliness of future reviews and other miscellaneous matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe bill provides for a transfer of spectrum management rights from the Crown to Te P\u016Btahi Paoho, and for Te P\u016Btahi Paoho to issue spectrum licences to the M\u0101ori Television Service to meet its current and future broadcasting needs. It is my expectation that Te P\u016Btahi Paoho will issue a national set of spectrum licences to the M\u0101ori Television Service immediately following the passage of this bill, to cover a 20-year window. This approach reflects the role of Te P\u016Btahi Paoho as a kaitiaki of M\u0101ori interests in the M\u0101ori Television Service. It also provides certainty of tenure for the M\u0101ori Television Service about access to the necessary spectrum licences for it to undertake its business. It will also strengthen the relationship between the M\u0101ori Television Service and Te P\u016Btahi Paoho. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe bill also provides for the creation of a deed between the responsible Ministers and Te P\u016Btahi Paoho to set up the terms and condition under which Te P\u016Btahi Paoho must exercise the spectrum management rights. These terms and conditions will address implementation requirements, specific provisions about support for the M\u0101ori Television Service, and the promotion of the M\u0101ori language and culture, and circumstances under which Te P\u016Btahi Paoho would be required to return the spectrum management rights to the Crown. This approach provides some flexibility for the Crown and Te P\u016Btahi Paoho to manage, amend, and update operational arrangements for spectrum management on an ongoing basis without requiring further legislative change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EIt is my intention to refer the draft deed that has been prepared to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee to inform its consideration of this bill. Following that, Te Puni K\u014Dkiri and the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment will work on behalf of the responsible Ministers to finalise the deed with Te P\u016Btahi Paoho. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EAs I have noted, Cabinet has deferred consideration of the issues regarding the composition of Te P\u016Btahi Paoho. This is a serious matter and it will require significant engagement with M\u0101ori. I am keen to ensure that any work to consider the composition of Te P\u016Btahi Paoho is synchronised with related work streams in Vote M\u0101ori Affairs. On this basis, I intend to report back to the House with my proposed approach to this matter at an appropriate time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EIt is important that this bill progress through the legislative process in a timely manner. There are a number of spectrum-related transitional arrangements that need to occur, once this bill has been enacted, to position the M\u0101ori Television Service for digital switch-over. For this reason, I ask that the motion be agreed\u2014that this bill be reported back to the House by 23 July 2013. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EI would like to briefly acknowledge the efforts of all those who have worked to bring Te Reo M\u0101ori into our homes through television. E \u014Dku rangatira, t\u0113nei ka mihi atu ki a koutou, ar\u0101, ki \u0101 koutou mahi nunui hei painga m\u014D Te Reo, m\u014D ng\u0101 mokopuna, m\u014D ng\u0101 iwi wh\u0101nui. T\u012Bhei mauri ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E[To my revered leaders, I acknowledge you collectively, particularly your outstanding contributions, which the language, grandchildren, and people at large will benefit from. Behold the breath of life.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EAs I have noted, the M\u0101ori Television Service has taken our language and culture to a broad viewing audience. It plays a major role in promoting our unique heritage and identity to M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori viewers through its outstanding annual coverage of things such as Anzac Day, to its free-to-air coverage of the Rugby World Cup 2011, and through its presentation on everyday joys, tribulations, and triumphs of M\u0101ori and other New Zealanders. It is my intention to strengthen the platform for our language and culture through this legislation. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc5dbf387f554bbe9ad057457687fdcc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc5dbf387f554bbe9ad057457687fdcc\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora an\u014D t\u0101tau. M\u0101ku t\u0113nei k\u014Drero e tuku ki Te Reo M\u0101ori t\u0101 te mea, e k\u014Drero ana t\u0101tau m\u014D te waka i whakaritea ai hei p\u0101ho i t\u014D t\u0101tau Reo M\u0101ori. M\u0101na e h\u0101pai, m\u0101na e hiki, m\u0101na e waha i ng\u0101 take t\u014Drangap\u016B, take h\u0101pori, take p\u0101kihi hei m\u0101takitaki mai m\u0101 te marea wh\u0101nui, mai i ng\u0101 k\u014Dkorutanga katoa o Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EKo t\u0101ku ki a koe e Pita, pai k\u0113 me tuku e t\u0101ua, a t\u0101ua e m\u014Dhio ana ki t\u014D t\u0101ua Reo, i \u014D t\u0101ua k\u014Drero, \u014D t\u0101ua whakaaro ki t\u014D t\u0101tau Reo, hei tirohanga mai m\u0101 \u0101 t\u0101tau tamariki. Oti i a t\u0101ua te k\u014Drero i t\u014D t\u0101ua Reo m\u014D t\u0113nei take. Me i kore Te Reo M\u0101ori kua kore he pakanga me t\u016B te paoho M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ET\u0101 t\u0113nei pire, ka nui noa atu \u014Dku \u0101wangawanga \u0113ngari i a m\u0101tau, ko te tautoko kia whakawhitingia atu ki te komiti uiui. Tuarua, ka nui noa atu t\u014D m\u0101tau p\u014Duri te korenga o t\u0113nei K\u0101wanatanga e pai ki te manaaki i te tono o te iwi M\u0101ori m\u014D ng\u0101 iarere h\u014Du, e karangahia nei ko te 4G. Me te mea nei ki te k\u0101hore m\u0101tau, a t\u0101tau r\u0101 o Te Ao M\u0101ori e haere ake ki te pakanga i t\u0113neki take ki te aroaro o te Taraipiunara, e kore ng\u0101 taringa o t\u0113n\u0101 wahine a Amy Adams, e rata mai ki ng\u0101 \u012Bnoi o Te Ao M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ETuatoru, e tatari ana m\u0101tau kia rongo \u0101hea noa atu \u014D t\u0101tau nei waerehe, \u014D t\u0101tau reo irirangi M\u0101ori e manaakitia ai. E rapu ana r\u0101tau me p\u0113hea r\u0101nei ng\u0101 moemoe\u0101, me p\u0113hea r\u0101nei ng\u0101 teihana e whakakahangia ai ng\u0101 moemoe\u0101 e whakapuangia ai, m\u0113n\u0101 k\u0101hore he moni tua atu i ng\u0101 kongakonga noa iho nei ka kitea. N\u0101 ko t\u0101ku ki te Minita me whakapaua e koe t\u014D kaha ki te manaaki i te hia noa atu o ng\u0101 tono mai i \u014D t\u0101tau reo irirangi. E kore\u2014k\u0101hore. Tokomaha noa atu te hunga e tika ana me mau k\u014Drero mai ai ki te aroaro o te komiti uiui. \u0112ngari ko t\u0101ku ki te Whare, ko t\u0113tahi w\u0101hanga horekau m\u0101tau e whakaae ana, otir\u0101, waiho m\u0101 te roanga ake o ng\u0101 t\u0101paeranga k\u014Drero k\u0101tahi ka tino whakatat\u016Bngia ka p\u0113hea r\u0101nei t\u014D m\u0101tau t\u016B, ko te kararehe e k\u012Bia nei ko Te P\u016Btahi Paoho. A m\u0101tau e k\u016Bare ana ki te tino whakapapa o t\u0113nei r\u014Dp\u016B, m\u0113n\u0101 e tika ana m\u0101na e whiwhi i ng\u0101 iarere h\u014Du, me k\u012B, k\u0101tahi ka tupu ake pea he raruraru i waenga tonu i Te P\u016Btahi Paoho me te Teihana M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EN\u0101, pai k\u0113 atu me whai tonu te Whare i te tauira i whakaritea ai e Parekura Horomia me \u014Dna hoa i te w\u0101 i a r\u0101tau e mana ana hei K\u0101wanatanga kia whakawhiwhingia rawatia atu ng\u0101 iarere ki te Teihana M\u0101ori ake. Otir\u0101 m\u0101 te roanga ake o ng\u0101 t\u0101paeranga k\u014Drero k\u0101tahi t\u0113n\u0101 take ka wh\u0101wh\u0101tia rawatia. Te \u0101hua nei, ka nui noa atu te ng\u0101kaunui o te marea kia t\u016B ai te paoho M\u0101ori, kia t\u016B ai t\u0113nei Teihana M\u0101ori \u0113ngari, me m\u014Dhio t\u0101tau Te Ao M\u0101ori. Ki te k\u0101hore t\u0101tau e whakamahi i t\u0113nei taonga, ki te k\u0101hore t\u0101tau e akiaki i ng\u0101 kair\u012Bpoata, i ng\u0101 kairangahau, i ng\u0101 tumuaki o t\u014D t\u0101tau waka M\u0101ori paoho, e kore rawa atu e eke rawa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EAr\u0101 noa atu \u014D t\u0101tau hoa P\u0101keh\u0101 e manaaki mai ana i te kaupapa neki, ar\u0101, te waka M\u0101ori t\u0101 te mea he korenga n\u014D ng\u0101 teihana tauiwi, ng\u0101 teihana auraki e tino whakaputa, whakaatu k\u014Drero r\u0101nei e rite ana ki t\u0101 r\u0101tau e hiahia ai. Ar\u0101 ng\u0101 k\u014Drero h\u0101pori, ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u014D ng\u0101 take horekau e tino k\u014Drerotia wh\u0101nuitia ana i roto i te tumunga me te paringa o ng\u0101 mahi ia r\u0101, ia r\u0101. N\u0101 reira, e mihi atu ki a r\u0101tau e mahi ana i ng\u0101 pakip\u016Bmeka p\u0113r\u0101. N\u0101 reira tukua, kia puta t\u0113neki pire, kia takoto ki roto i te komiti uiui, otir\u0101 me m\u014Dhio te Whare, me m\u014Dhio Te P\u016Btahi Paoho, me m\u014Dhio te hunga ahakoa p\u0113hea te m\u0101totoru, te itiiti r\u0101nei e m\u0101takitaki mai ana, k\u0101hore an\u014D m\u0101tau kia whakaae atu, kia whakamanangia Te P\u016Btahi Paoho, ka puta t\u0113tahi kararehe h\u014Du. Ko wai r\u0101nei m\u0101tau e m\u014Dhio ana, kei a wai r\u0101nei te mana, he hutihuti ng\u0101 retireti m\u014D te hunga kei runga i t\u0113n\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B? N\u0101, hei te roanga ake o ng\u0101 t\u0101paeranga, k\u0101tahi ka m\u014Dhiotia ko wai p\u016B ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata e whai mana ana hei whakahaere ana i t\u0113n\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B, hei pupuru i t\u0113nei taonga h\u014Du. Me te m\u014Dhio o t\u0113nei taonga, ehara i te mea ka pau te wh\u0101nuitanga o te taonga nei i roto i te Teihana M\u0101ori anakenake. Ar\u0101 noa atu ng\u0101 huarahi, eke atu pea i te waru, te iwa, te tekau ng\u0101 huarahi ka whakaw\u0101teangia hei whakap\u0101oho, hei whakaatu pikitia \u0101 te w\u0101. N\u0101 reira, m\u0113n\u0101 horekau e \u2019hakamahingia ana te katoa o te Teihana M\u0101ori kia waihotia ki Te P\u016Btahi Paoho. Ko wai r\u0101nei ka m\u014Dhio, ka p\u0113heatia, ka ahatia e r\u0101tau \u0113nei taonga e toe ana? Otir\u0101, m\u0101 te w\u0101 e titiro hai te roanga ake o ng\u0101 t\u0101paeranga k\u014Drero.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EN\u0101 reira, m\u0101tau, tautoko ana kia whakawhitingia te pire ki te komiti uiui, n\u0101 m\u0101 te w\u0101 e titiro p\u0113n\u0101 whakat\u016Bturungia e m\u0101tau ng\u0101 k\u014Drero \u014D roto. Kia ora t\u0101tau katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[Greetings once again to us all. I will speak in M\u0101ori because we are talking about the vehicle that has been determined will broadcast our M\u0101ori language. It will enhance, elevate, and convey issues of a political, community, and business nature for the public to watch from every cove in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EFrom me to you, Pita, it is better that we express what we know about our language, talk, and thoughts in M\u0101ori as we are both fluent in it and in the language of every tribe, so that our children can bear witness to our conversation. It is possible for you and me to deal with this issue in M\u0101ori. Without the M\u0101ori language there would not be any conflict in regards to M\u0101ori broadcasting remaining. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EAs far as this bill is concerned, I have many concerns, but we endorse it being sent to the select committee. Secondly, we are greatly disappointed at the lack of support by this Government for an application by the M\u0101ori people for a new spectrum called 4G. Had it not been for us of M\u0101oridom taking this conflict before the Waitangi Tribunal, the ears of Amy Adams would not have become receptive to the pleas of M\u0101oridom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThirdly, we are waiting to hear when our radios and television service will receive support. They are seeking how aspirations may be fulfilled, how stations can have greater capacity and productivity if no further funding can be found beyond the mere pittance allocated. My plea to you, Minister, is that you must work harder to support the numerous requests from our radio stations. There has not been any\u2014none at all. There are many, many others who have a right to appear before a select committee to air their views. But my concern to the House is that beast referred to as the M\u0101ori Television Electoral College, which is a part that we absolutely oppose but are prepared to wait until a greater number of submissions are received about it before determining our position. We are completely ignorant about the genesis of this organisation, whether it should receive the new spectrums, and, let us say, whether a friction may well up between the M\u0101ori Television Electoral College and the M\u0101ori Television Service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIt would be better by far for the House to follow the example considered by Parekura Horomia and his colleagues, at the time they were in the Government, where spectrums can be transferred directly to the M\u0101ori Television Service. Indeed, the great number of submissions received will ensure that the detail to that matter is dealt with at that stage of the process. It appears that the commitment by the public about the M\u0101ori Television Electoral College established is a big one, which in turn will make M\u0101ori Television more functional. But we of M\u0101oridom must be kept informed. If we do not use this spectrum and encourage the reporters, researchers, and heads of our M\u0101ori broadcasting vehicle, M\u0101ori Television will never succeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWe have a very large number of our P\u0101keh\u0101 colleagues supporting this proposal, this M\u0101ori vehicle, because there are no non-M\u0101ori and mainstream stations that broadcast and televise similar talks in M\u0101ori to satisfy their needs. There are community conversations and talks in M\u0101ori about matters that are not discussed so broadly and extensively daily elsewhere. And so I commend those who make documentaries like that. Therefore release this bill and allow it to go before the select committee. However, the House, the M\u0101ori Television Electoral College, and everybody else must understand that no matter how dense or sparse the audience, we have not yet agreed to validate the M\u0101ori Television Electoral College or whether a new beast will emerge. How are we to know who has the mandate, as it would be difficult because of those who make up that group? Until an extensive submission process is over, it is only then that the right people with the mandate to administer the organisation and hold this new spectrum will be identified. If the majority of M\u0101ori Television\u2019s spectrum left to the M\u0101ori Television Electoral College is not used up, who will know what will be done to them? There are many other avenues\u2014up to eight, nine, or 10 perhaps will be made available in the future for broadcasting and television. Time, indeed, after an extensive submission process will deal with this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ESo for us, we support this bill going to the select committee. Time, as well, will determine whether we validate its contents. Salutations to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u002203d992ec6e45494db1d72dd5ecca3f06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203d992ec6e45494db1d72dd5ecca3f06\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E What a beautiful language the M\u0101ori language is. I thank the Hon Shane Jones for his contribution. I am sorry that I struggled to follow what he was saying, though, but one day I might become enlightened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EI am pleased to speak very briefly in support of the M\u0101ori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill. I hope my pronunciation was correct there. It has been about 10 years since M\u0101ori Television\u2019s empowering Act was passed by this Parliament, and I think New Zealanders can be quite proud of the M\u0101ori Television Service we have in New Zealand. In fact, those of us who do not typically watch M\u0101ori Television but do tune in to the odd individual programme can see good programmes like Native Affairs, and good programmes like the Anzac Day celebrations that were covered by M\u0101ori Television, and see the quality of the work that M\u0101ori Television is doing. We can see that, actually, it is contributing to a certain sector of the broadcast community and to a certain population out there that is looking for some indigenous service and a service that is able to promote, keep current, and inform New Zealanders about M\u0101ori language and about the need and importance for New Zealand as a country to continue to promote, recognise, and keep alive the M\u0101ori language, the first language of this country. M\u0101ori Television does provide that role and I think does a good job of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EHowever, there was a review recently that undertook to look at some options and look at the effectiveness of M\u0101ori Television. Some recommendations were made about how the effectiveness of M\u0101ori Television could be improved. This bill is about putting in place some legislative changes to help M\u0101ori Television fulfil the recommendations that were proposed as part of that review. Some of the changes in this bill include some provisions around the target audiences that M\u0101ori Television should be targeting, and it contains some provisions around how M\u0101ori Television should be looking after and focusing its particular services on M\u0101ori language. It also has some changes that would aid M\u0101ori Television as we come to the spectrum change, and provides for some responsibilities that the Crown has to fulfil around spectrum change and what it needs to do to help M\u0101ori Television through that transition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Television is a world-class service that we are proud of. It has been in operation for 10 years now. These are some simple but important changes to help it be even more effective in promoting M\u0101ori language. I thank the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, Pita Sharples, for bringing this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4cf54a688ff4fe7a1ff706154fa91c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4cf54a688ff4fe7a1ff706154fa91c1\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Labour, as my colleague Shane Jones has indicated, is supportive of this bill, the M\u0101ori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill, progressing to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. There are still some reservations and some things to work through, but, given the history of this matter, the active involvement of the Labour Party right from the beginning, and the leading role the Labour Party has taken around M\u0101ori language, we, of course, are very happy to entertain the discussion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI think, without wanting to bring up governorship and leadership too much with my very old friend Dr Sharples, there is some work that needs to be done, because some of the 13 organisations no longer exist. When you have an out-of-date governance system, that will presumably have to be fixed up as part of this process. But I think the vast majority of New Zealanders now accept that M\u0101ori Television is doing a superb job. My view is that it is the pre-eminent public broadcaster and the best of the free-to-air channels. I think in recent times we have seen a little bit more from TV3, even. One of its programmes last night that looked into the T\u016Bhoe area was something that I thought was pretty much groundbreaking for mainstream television, and that is a good thing. I think the fact that M\u0101ori Television has been going so well puts the pressure on the more mainstream providers to, in fact, deliver in that area. I am pleased that that is beginning to work with TV3. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMy only regret is that the State-owned Television New Zealand, both Television One and TV2, seems to be going down to the depths. I could probably say this for Clare Curran\u2014Clare Curran is not in the House\u2014but I do not know why we own it any more. It is just absolutely hopeless as a provider of good public service television. I think maybe we could transpose the management. If we put the management of the M\u0101ori Television Service in there, maybe that might make a difference and we would have good television, rather than a bloated bureaucracy. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u002256d711009cf843a7bab5bb3163da61f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256d711009cf843a7bab5bb3163da61f3\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I too just want to take a short call on the M\u0101ori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill. I think it is well overdue that the recommendations from the review of the M\u0101ori Television Service come to the House, and I am looking forward to the select committee process, where the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee looks at these changes and gets reflections and submissions from those who are interested. Certainly it is necessary that the shift to digital is made as easy as possible for the M\u0101ori Television Service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EI would just say that the M\u0101ori Television Service is a fantastic television station. I agree that it is the best public broadcaster we have of the television stations, and I think that is a view that is held by most New Zealanders. I would reflect that this was one of the first pieces of legislation I dealt with as a new member of Parliament 10 years ago, working with the then Minister, Parekura Horomia, on passing the legislation through. At that time it was only the Labour Party and the Green Party that supported the bill to set up the M\u0101ori Television Service\u2014if we might remember back to those dark old days when there was so much less commitment to the Reo by other parties in this House and so much less commitment to the expression of M\u0101ori voices about their own lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EOne of the most fantastic things about M\u0101ori Television is that it has brought M\u0101ori stories to the mainstream. There is a great P\u0101keh\u0101 audience for M\u0101ori Television, because these stories, these M\u0101ori stories, that are told every day are stories of our own country. They are stories of New Zealand. That is what we see reflected in the M\u0101ori Television programming and commitment. I am very pleased to see the increasing commitment to the Reo, because I know that it is driving people towards the Reo and making it more understandable and easier for people to accept that we are a bilingual country and that the Reo is an official language of this country and therefore deserving of all respect and effort in its preservation\u2014not just its preservation but its continuation, growth, and life well after we are gone. We want to make sure that the Reo remains as much a part of Aotearoa as the land, the soil, and the water do\u2014that it is part of the lifeblood of this country, of which the M\u0101ori Television Service is a crucial part. I am looking forward to hearing more about the provisions of this bill and how to develop that better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E I think it is worthwhile noting Trevor Mallard\u2019s discussion about how other TV stations are having to step up in order to meet the challenge that the M\u0101ori Television Service presented. Native Affairs won an award for best current affairs last year, I understand. Other TV stations are having to step up to meet the challenge that is being provided\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb93293bcf604a48b15544d3f638f9ca\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: To be fair, it wasn\u2019t a high test.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f80410d4a3b54d15b37e5d6e763d0fc8\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: Trevor Mallard is saying it was not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7a7543101294e26bc2e4e28e44714c5\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: The competition wasn\u2019t strong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f52b9d3641447838bc3934456c9ad90\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: He is saying the competition was not strong. But the M\u0101ori Television Service is brilliant, and it won because it is brilliant, and, because of that, other TV stations are having to step up the mark. New Zealanders do want to hear current affairs, they do want to hear their own stories, and that is where the M\u0101ori Television Service\u2014M\u0101ori Television\u2014is leading the way. So all power to M\u0101ori Television, and we look forward to dealing with this legislation in the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1a6bf151cf34be3a3e3104f7aa43fbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1a6bf151cf34be3a3e3104f7aa43fbf\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I feel very pleased to see the cross-party support for this bill, the M\u0101ori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill. I feel that we do not have to spend a long time speaking about this. I support this bill and I would like to send my regards to the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, Dr Pita Sharples, for bringing this bill to the House. I support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00221d808e37343442b0b4872d9612eb1504\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d808e37343442b0b4872d9612eb1504\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First is supporting the referral of this M\u0101ori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill to the select committee, for good reason. There is a case for the careful consideration of its provisions. It merits closer consideration, because a thriving and open media is fundamental to a successful democracy. Indeed, in a modern democracy the media play a pivotal part in ensuring the public are informed and not misinformed. It is no exaggeration to say that our society is shaped by the media, and particularly broadcast media. We do need a variety of channels for broadcasting, channels that will reflect our society and allow the open expression of views and perspectives. What would not be healthy is the concentration of media power and influence in a few, narrowly controlled distribution channels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIn general, we believe that there is an argument for having a viable and thriving M\u0101ori Television Service, provided, of course, that it is fulfilling the obligations of its charter\u2014a service that all New Zealanders can access and derive information and entertainment from. Indeed, given the lamentable, sad overall state of public broadcasting in New Zealand, in a sense M\u0101ori Television, because it has been significantly funded for various reasons while the others have not, for reasons that are inexplicable, has become a de facto public broadcasting service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders who believe in a public broadcasting system must wonder how this state of affairs was reached, because effectively there is now no proper public broadcasting service in our country. That makes us unique amongst modern democracies. No public broadcasting service in New Zealand\u2014there is no public broadcasting service that seeks to be the voice of an emerging New Zealand culture, which probably explains that although you have got all sorts of people pushing all sorts of attributes of where we are going, there is no New Zealand culture that is being promoted by a broadcasting service funded by the New Zealand taxpayers. Other countries do it\u2014Australia, the UK, Canada. Here: nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ETo some extent, M\u0101ori Television is filling that gap. The M\u0101ori Television Service had a primary role to do with the future of the M\u0101ori language, because it was argued that no other service was fulfilling this role. Te Reo must be a living language. That means it must be readily accessible, and that means in broadcast media. As has been the case with the survival of the Welsh language, it is important that the language is seen to be relevant in an everyday media sense. For that reason, it was seen that, for Te Reo, the support of M\u0101ori Television was critical for its survival. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe proponents behind this legislation argue that the bill will give the service a more explicit mandate to protect and promote the M\u0101ori language. That needs to be reflected upon\u2014it will give the service a more explicit mandate to protect and promote the M\u0101ori language. Well, 10 years ago, what was that about? That is what every discussion in this House and behind the proposal said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe bill is wide ranging and covers a comprehensive set of values and issues, including the functions of the service, the management of the UHF spectrum, accountability of documents, borrowing and investment, and future reviews. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe former Minister of Broadcasting Maurice Williamson should listen to this, because I remember well when he was the broadcasting Minister, dishing out M\u0101ori broadcasting licences all around this country, and the question was never asked: \u201CBut who is listening to these M\u0101ori radio stations?\u201D. Minister Williamson remembers this very well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271455b35eda342d2b47cdf18f482097a\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do. You came with me to a number of the marae.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8262e92c13e41e7907b0b75124f5caa\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I came on the road, and I could not believe what I was seeing. For example, up there in the forests of Northland was an outfit picking up about $385,000\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228de79df05a7c41329578a6d32543d53b\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Radio Tautoko.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022022a84f27ca5461d882f0d315c07f471\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that is right, $385,000\u2014and there apparently was not any audience at all, apart from mum and dad and the cousins down the road. That is the kind of shambles that Mr Williamson allowed to happen. So why he is talking during this important speech, I do not know. Then, of course, he went off and he made a colleague of his a multimillionaire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cbd82365219464587042115868d61a5\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Which one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228018e4ccca964b0281ccb9fe0ddda9fb\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Steven Joyce. He gave out licences under a Vickrey sale process\u2014a Vickrey sale process. I want to remind everybody listening that this is the kind of money that has gone into this. The Vickrey sale process goes like this. Up comes this item for purchase. Mr Williamson is heading the sale. A bids $1 million, B bids $100,000, and C bids $50,000. A gets the tender\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdbcafe1e8e841069e608e26d7c9629b\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: We could have a royal inquiry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266dcaec65e2d4138a401a16f02f0a356\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014well, it deserves an inquiry, all right, but not, I think, from that member\u2014because A bid $1 million, but he does not pay $1 million; he pays what the second guy, B, bid. He pays $100,000. Now every morning, and five times a day, Mr Joyce gets up and he points his face towards Pakuranga. He gets down on his knees and he prays to the Mecca of Pakuranga who made him a multimillionaire, and then he walks into the House and calls himself a self-made man. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EYou know, this has appeared in such books as The Undercover Economist, a famous economics book out of London. It mentioned the shambles of New Zealand\u2019s broadcasting service, which was presided over by the man who is not paying enough attention to this speech, as you are up there\u2014but he is not, because he knows better! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe think it is appropriate that all the areas set out in the bill should be given due, full consideration. In particular, we support the provision that the bill allows for future reviews of the operation, etc. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ELet me say one thing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247d3c1db5bbb4f27a89b37a21e6771d4\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: This member used to be good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f74e40292fe4472a79e467100d07340\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no, the best is yet to come. New Zealand First has always viewed M\u0101ori Television as one alternative amongst a number available for the improvement of M\u0101ori economic and social performance. It is one alternative of expenditure. We have never viewed it in an uncritical, politically correct way. We have, in short, never been sickly white liberals who say: \u201COh, we are too scared to confront what\u2019s there, and we\u2019ll just dish out the family largesse.\u201D For example, for the expenditure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9e133a96357410f8681e6fc985b1d2a\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a phrase from the past\u2014\u201Csickly white liberal\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022734220ef3d744d2686e0d94867920240\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Listen to this\u2014listen to this. For example, for the expenditure and the money that has thus far been spent on M\u0101ori Television, every M\u0101ori family in New Zealand could have been housed. That is an alternative. For the money, the $67 million or $70 million a year, every year, spent on M\u0101ori Television in these last 10 years, we could have housed every M\u0101ori family. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EFor example, there was no justification for M\u0101ori Television bidding for TV coverage at the last Rugby World Cup. We ended up with five television stations covering the Rugby World Cup. What was that about? It is just a misuse of money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229b47c13b3034673aece2f35617ff9d0\u0022\u003EHon Dr Pita Sharples\u003C/span\u003E: Enterprise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221777f1f79dbd43968250109ee818561d\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, enterprise? The Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs says it was enterprise. No, it was not enterprise at all; it was nationalism spent in the guise of the taxpayers\u2019 largesse when there was no justification at all, because most M\u0101ori I know\u2014and they watch a darned sight more rugby than most people in this place do\u2014all watched it on nationwide TV or Sky. No, M\u0101ori Television bid millions of dollars and got the bid, and it was a waste of money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219f09d414f8e4ae69e85b41532f8dc8d\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: This member used to be young. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224654f7a8803f4837a4f862e74ecd6741\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: This is just one alternative area\u2014yeah, the fact is the great thing about being around Maurice Williamson is that you will always look young. If you move around Maurice and talk to him, you will always feel young and look young by comparison. This is just one alternative area of expenditure with a uniquely important or critical need for consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI want to say this, too. In all fairness, in the last election M\u0101ori Television was by far the most balanced and fair presenter of the issues and the political parties. There is no doubt about that, so I give it full commendation for that. Then when it came to the Gallipoli commemorations, it was streets ahead of anybody else. So I give credit where credit is due. It is in these things that we seek M\u0101ori Television to be focused; as it should be right now on the question of enrolment at census time\u2014which is too late; it has gone by\u2014but on the future enrolment, whether it is going to be for the M\u0101ori seats or otherwise. So, in short, stick to the things it should be sticking to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe believe there is likely to be keen public interest in the bill and would encourage public submissions, but we are mindful that this is not the time for a blank cheque. Whatever M\u0101ori Television does deliver, it must deliver value for money. If M\u0101ori Television is doing its job, it will deliver on its charter and it will deliver content that is relevant and appealing to a wide audience across the entire spectrum of New Zealand. If it does that, it can escape some of the political correctness that so far has confused so many people about the engagement of this service and it can get on and do its job properly\u2014first of all for the country, but, in particular, for M\u0101ori and the M\u0101ori language. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e73d6254679c4171a8a007c30bee1d64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e73d6254679c4171a8a007c30bee1d64\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I applaud the fact that this bill, the M\u0101ori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill, will enhance the dissemination of the M\u0101ori language, and I support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022 data-id=\u00221cd4ecfb6d074cd7b1a6b3656870f9cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cd4ecfb6d074cd7b1a6b3656870f9cc\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E Te Kaiwhakahaere, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Ki a koe e te Minita M\u0101ori e Pita, ka nui te mihi. Te pai hoki o te haere kaha o te Pouaka Whakaata M\u0101ori, kei te ora hoki. Me whakahoki \u014Dku whakaaro ki te t\u012Bmata. He nui atu te wehewehe i roto i te m\u0101hunga o w\u0113tahi o te Whare nei. Takariri atu w\u0113tahi m\u014D te puta a t\u0113nei taputapu e mau pai atu. Te mea pai i te w\u0101 nei e kite atu t\u0101tau, te kaha rawa te p\u014Duri e manaaki atu ng\u0101 kanohi M\u0101ori mai i te motu. Kore hoki atu m\u014D ng\u0101 kanohi M\u0101ori anake. E nui atu r\u0101tau o t\u0113r\u0101 piri, e mau whatu ki te \u0101hua nei. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 an\u014D taku whakaaro n\u0101 te mea hoki e tae atu, e kite atu t\u0101tau te kaha i roto i a r\u0101tau hei t\u016B, hei manaaki atu te \u0101hua o ng\u0101 r\u0101 o ng\u0101 h\u014Dia, te r\u0101 o Waitangi, Matatini\u2014t\u0113r\u0101 tino mahi hakahaka, ng\u0101 take katoa p\u0113r\u0101 tonu e haere atu i runga i te motu, e kite atu te nui o ng\u0101 kura, ng\u0101 k\u014Dhanga e manaaki atu, e mau ana ng\u0101 kupu me ng\u0101 whana o te Pouaka Whakaata M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EHe tino rekareka atu te kite atu te oratiatanga i roto i a r\u0101tau, ng\u0101 kaiwhakahaere p\u0113r\u0101 i a Jim m\u0101, e manaaki e tautokotia atu t\u0113nei tino take. E tautokotia atu au i ng\u0101 whakaaro e p\u014Dh\u0113h\u0113 haere ng\u0101 teihana \u0113tahi me TV3. E wero atu t\u014Dku tuakana a Shane m\u014D r\u0101tau, n\u0101 te mea i roto i \u0101ku kei te t\u016B pakari atu t\u0113nei teihana. N\u014D reira t\u0113r\u0101 an\u014D te mea i roto i a t\u0101tau. E pai ana e ora ana. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EKite atu au i Wisconsin, i Montreal, ng\u0101 teihana p\u0113nei tonu e mahi atu te mahi p\u0113nei tonu. N\u0101 te pai hoki, he taputapu, he pouaka whakaata, he mahi paoho a t\u0101tau o te tangata whenua. T\u0113r\u0101 an\u014D te pai n\u014D reira ki a koe, kia kaha kia m\u0101ia. Kaua koe e manaaki atu r\u0101tau e p\u012Brangi tangohia atu te whakaaea, te kore whakaaea o te pouaka whakaata i roto t\u014D r\u0101tau tari. Kei runga an\u014D w\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 mahi nanakia e tika atu e waihotia atu i te tari o te Minita M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira i roto i a w\u0113r\u0101 whakaaro, e mihi kau ana ki te Pouaka Whakaata M\u0101ori, e mihi kau ana ki ng\u0101 kaimahi, e mau t\u016Bturu atu t\u014D t\u0101tau Reo, t\u014D t\u0101tau \u0101hua M\u0101ori i runga ng\u0101\u2014ahakoa ng\u0101 piki ng\u0101 heke. I reira k\u0113 r\u0101tau e whawhai tonu atu m\u014D te ora o t\u014D t\u0101tau Reo, hei mau kite atu ng\u0101 whatu m\u014D r\u0101tau e kore e tae ki Waitangi, ki te r\u0101 o ng\u0101 h\u014Dia, ki Matatini, ng\u0101 hui nui p\u0113r\u0101 tonu. K\u0101re hoki atu m\u014D ng\u0101 hui kait\u0101 anake. He nui atu ng\u0101 huihuinga me ng\u0101 take e p\u0101 ana ki te pai o t\u0101tau o Aotearoa engari m\u014D te tangata whenua t\u0113r\u0101 an\u014D te t\u012Bmata. T\u0113n\u0101 koe, e te Kaiwhakahaere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Speaker. A huge one to you, Pita, Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs. The M\u0101ori Television Service is really going strong. It is alive as well. Let me take my thoughts back to the beginning. There was much division in the minds of some in this House. Some were irate over the delivery of this service and the benefits it had to offer. The great thing we see at the moment is the extreme disappointment at the support accorded to M\u0101ori audiences out in the country. But it was not just them alone. There are many of them in that situation who wanted to see this service. However, that is my perception, because we were there and witnessed how resolute they were as they stood and supported what the army days, Waitangi Day, and Matatini were about\u2014that great cultural arts festival, and everything like that going out to the nation, being seen by the many schools and many M\u0101ori preschool language nests that, in turn, support and hang on every word and action by the M\u0101ori Television Service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EIt is an absolute pleasure to see how well they the operators like Jim and others are caring and supporting this great initiative. I endorse the growing doubts that some channels and TV3 have. My senior colleague Shane has a challenge for them because there is a feeling within me and us that this station is well established. It is well, and it is alive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EI note in Wisconsin and Montreal channels very much like these are operating in the same manner. It is great as well as it is a facility, a television service, and we the M\u0101ori of the country are into the field of broadcasting. And that is the great thing about it. That aside, one has to be strong and confident. Do not support those who want to take away the ability to approve or not approve a television service as part of the functions of their departments. The M\u0101ori Minister\u2019s department must take some responsibility for some of the strange decisions made about what should be taken out and what should be left in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003ESo, within the parameters of those thoughts, I really acknowledge the M\u0101ori Television Service and staff who have held firm to our language and our M\u0101ori perspective, despite the circumstances and the ups and downs. Actually, that is where they were, really, fighting on for the survival of our language, being a face for those who could not make it to Waitangi, the army days, Matatini, and significant gatherings like those. But they were not just there for the major ones. There were several other gatherings and related events about what we of New Zealand are good at, but for us, the M\u0101ori of the country, that was just the beginning. Thank you, Mr Speaker.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022b91c3ea97d7d4f2283810742719a1490\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b91c3ea97d7d4f2283810742719a1490\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I want to acknowledge what is broad cross-party support for this bill, the M\u0101ori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill, and add my voice of commendation as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00224d09888197e24983b5455fa7ddaacac2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d09888197e24983b5455fa7ddaacac2\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Rino Tirikatene. I understand that this is a split call\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u002205d5a347954541e595f298df62a87e2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205d5a347954541e595f298df62a87e2d\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. \u0100, ki a koe e te Minita, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. E t\u016B atu au ki te tautoko i t\u0113nei pire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E[Thank you. Greetings, Mr Assistant Speaker. Greetings to the House collectively. And to you the Minister, greetings. I rise to support this bill.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI am pleased to speak in support of the M\u0101ori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill. We are having this first reading a week short of M\u0101ori Television\u2019s ninth birthday, ninth anniversary, and I think we all\u2014well, definitely all us M\u0101ori\u2014remember 28 March 2004 very well, getting up early in the morning and watching the launch of M\u0101ori Television. It was an exciting time, and I am pleased to see the progression that M\u0101ori Television has taken since its launch back in 2004. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge our matua here, the Hon Parekura Horomia, who was the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs at the time, under a Labour Government, who launched that waka of M\u0101ori Television. Indeed, it is fair to say that M\u0101ori Television is held in deep affection across the country as a public service broadcaster, but also in terms of fulfilling its role to promote and protect our Te Reo M\u0101ori. That is where I would like to start, because the whakapapa to M\u0101ori Television goes back to the Treaty commitment, the Treaty partnership, between the Crown and M\u0101ori that there is an active duty on the Crown to protect and foster Te Reo M\u0101ori, and that has given rise to M\u0101ori radio, M\u0101ori TV, and various other organisations and activities that have sprung up over the years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Television is definitely a flagship for our language and our culture, and it was timely that under Parekura it was programmed into the bill that there would be a review. That review was carried out and reported back in May 2009. Te K\u0101hui o M\u0101hutonga\u2014a very capable, highly skilled, and experienced group of three\u2014carried out that review, and it came up with some very good recommendations around the M\u0101ori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi M\u0101ori) Act. It is regrettable, I guess, that not all of its recommendations were followed through, but I do note that if we go to the actual functions of the service, one aspect of Te K\u0101hui o M\u0101hutonga\u2019s recommendations that has been adopted has been to further broaden or articulate the M\u0101ori Television service to not only promote Te Reo but also to protect and preserve Te Reo, and that has been reflected in the amendments to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI want to pick up on the part in this bill that transfers the management rights for the spectrum that will allow M\u0101ori Television to progress to the digital platform to be vested in Te P\u016Btahi Paoho. Te P\u016Btahi Paoho is the electoral college that was set up under the original Act. The vesting of these management rights in that body I think calls into question\u2014and this was raised by Te K\u0101hui o M\u0101hutonga\u2019s report\u2014that we really need to look at the composition of that Te P\u016Btahi Paoho body. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWe are getting a lot of electoral colleges created these days to get wide representation of M\u0101ori stakeholders in terms of their support or their input into appointing directors on to a lot of these M\u0101ori structures that have been created. If we look at M\u0101ori fisheries, for example, we have Te K\u0101wai Taumata there. If we look at the M\u0101ori Te Huarahi Tika Trust, there is an electoral college there. And also we have this electoral college for M\u0101ori Television. But if you look at the actual organisations that make up that body, I think that is where we need to really look, because they have the power to appoint people on to these bodies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI have been part of a M\u0101ori organisation that has a statutory role to actually have to appoint a representative on to these bodies, and I know that a large number of these organisations are barely existing and are very highly under-resourced, so it is a big responsibility to be putting on to a few organisations. I think we really need to look carefully at that, because we want to make sure that Te P\u016Btahi Paoho is not a waka k\u0113hua, and we do not want kaupoais\u2014cowboys\u2014taking over these organisations. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022 data-id=\u00221280112a4cdc41f7a79e69cb75f1b589\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221280112a4cdc41f7a79e69cb75f1b589\u0022\u003EHOLLY WALKER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. The Green Party is pleased and proud to support this bill, the M\u0101ori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill. We think it makes sensible amendments to allow for the continued operation of M\u0101ori Television and to equip M\u0101ori Television for the digital age. We would like to congratulate M\u0101ori Television on the upcoming ninth anniversary of its broadcast, as referred to by the previous speaker, Rino Tirikatene, and commend what I think is a very high-quality broadcaster. Indeed, in the absence of a true public service broadcaster for the country, M\u0101ori Television now fills that role for us in New Zealand as our public service broadcaster, and it does an excellent job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Television is a great expression of the partnership embodied in the Treaty of Waitangi, and a great example of what can be achieved if we think creatively about how to embody that partnership in the modern times. I think, as my co-leader Metiria Turei referred to, it has done great things for the revitalisation of Te Reo M\u0101ori, which is, indeed, a treasure for us all and should be as precious to us as our land, our rivers, our mountains, and our precious natural environment. I will finish with a whakatauk\u012B. Ko Te Reo te taikura o te whakaaro m\u0101rama. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E[Language is the key to understanding.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EKia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EBill referred to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0fe2b062cc94b8fb88609b26fc0d444\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0fe2b062cc94b8fb88609b26fc0d444\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES (Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee report the M\u0101ori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill to the House on or before 23 July 2013.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022395eedbe3d8d497e9caf04cbce590af4\u0022\u003EMedicines Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022956b59c1c9f14fdd9a07014f9a8e7ea1\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u0022171e8a5ef6c54c8d825e193951ff4e29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022171e8a5ef6c54c8d825e193951ff4e29\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (Minister for Building and Construction) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Associate Minister of Health: I move, That the Medicines Amendment Bill be now read a second time. After looking at the bill, I am pleased that the Health Committee has recommended that it should proceed with some amendments. The committee has worked hard, and I thank all the members for their contributions. Before outlining the provisions in the bill, I think it is helpful to review its purpose in order to understand what this amendment bill will do and what it will not do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThis bill will amend some specific provisions of the Medicines Act 1981 to streamline the legislation. What this bill will not do is carry out a comprehensive overhaul of the Act. In June 2011 the Prime Ministers of New Zealand and Australia announced their intention to proceed with the establishment of an Australia New Zealand Therapeutic Products Agency under a treaty signed in 2003. The Minister of Health intends to progress a Therapeutic Products and Medicines Bill in 2013 to provide for the agency. That legislation and the Natural Health and Supplementary Products Bill, currently before the Health Committee, will comprehensively overhaul New Zealand\u2019s therapeutic products regulatory system. This Medicines Amendment Bill pre-dates the Prime Minister\u2019s agreement to progress the Australia New Zealand Therapeutic Products Agency. It should be seen as an interim measure before the agency is established. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThis bill, firstly, will modernise the definitions of \u201Cmedicine\u201D, \u201Cmedical device\u201D, and \u201Ctherapeutic purpose\u201D; secondly, it will amend the medicines approval process to make the legislation less prescriptive, instead specifying the detail in regulations; and, thirdly, it will amend the prescribing framework to name nurse practitioners and optometrists as authorised prescribers and make some minor changes to licensing requirements. The submissions on the bill were generally supportive of these proposals. The bill as introduced also added an enabling provision for a new category, \u201Cdelegated prescriber\u201D, and an enabling provision for temporary prescribing rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThere were mixed views from submitters on these provisions. A common theme was the need for further information on the process for gaining and implementing delegated and temporary prescribing rights. The bill has been amended in response to this, and I will now outline for the House the feedback from submissions and key changes. Definitions\u2014there was general support for updating the definitions of \u201Cmedicine\u201D, \u201Cmedical device\u201D, and \u201Ctherapeutic purpose\u201D to better align with international norms. The definitions in this bill have been developed to reflect New Zealand\u2019s current regulatory framework. These definitions will be reviewed and updated again as part of the establishment of the agency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EPrescribing\u2014there are currently two categories of prescriber in the Medicines Act: \u201Cauthorised\u201D and \u201Cdesignated\u201D. An authorised prescriber is a medical practitioner, dentist, registered midwife, or designated prescriber. These prescribers must prescribe within their scope of practice for patients under their care. \u201CDesignated prescriber\u201D is the term used for a restricted subgroup of authorised prescribers. Currently, optometrists and nurse practitioners with prescribing rights and some registered nurses practising in diabetes health are designated prescribers. Designated prescribers are allowed to prescribe only certain medicines listed in regulation. The bill revokes the designated prescriber regulations for nurse practitioners and optometrists, and names them as authorised prescribers. This will align their prescribing rights with those of medical practitioners, dentists, and midwives by enabling them to prescribe all medicines appropriate to their scope of practice, rather than limiting them to being able to prescribe only from a limited list of medicines. This move acknowledges the safe and appropriate prescribing practice of these groups over the past 7 years. There was broad support among the submissions for amending the definition of \u201Cauthorised prescriber\u201D to name nurse practitioners and optometrists. A small number of submissions raised concerns about extended prescribing rights, in terms of patient safety, fragmentation of care, and increased costs to the sector. This reflects, in part, a general opposition to the extension of prescribing rights to people other than doctors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThe bill also creates a new category of prescriber, the \u201Cdelegated prescriber\u201D. Delegated prescribers will be allowed to prescribe under a delegated prescribing order issued by an authorised prescriber. The competence, training, and qualifications required of delegated prescribers would be set in consultation with the responsible authority. The requirements for delegated prescribers would be set at a lower level than for designated and authorised prescribers, commensurate with the more limited level of prescribing and the oversight of the authorising prescriber. Generally, there was cautious support for the new category of \u201Cdelegated prescriber\u201D from medical and pharmacy organisations, and opposition from nursing groups. The \u201Cdelegated prescriber\u201D category adds a prescribing option for professional groups beyond the existing categories. It will be for regulatory authorities to determine what form of prescribing rights, if any, they intend to seek for their profession. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EA common theme in submissions was the need for further information on the process of gaining and implementing delegated prescribing. The bill has been amended so that delegated prescribing rights will be made via regulation rather than by Gazette notice. Requiring a regulatory mechanism will allow greater scrutiny and reflect the significant responsibilities that accompany any form of prescribing, but it will still allow flexibility to tailor conditions and requirements to different groups of delegated prescribers. Further consultation and education on the details of the delegated prescriber provisions will need to occur during development of the regulations and prior to their implementation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThe bill as introduced included a temporary prescribing provision to allow time-limited demonstration sites of new models of care that involve extending prescribing rights. Officials\u2019 previous understanding was that designated prescriber regulations could not be time-limited. I have since been advised that the existing designated prescriber regulation-making power does allow conditions to be placed that specify a time limit. This would allow all the restrictions that would be imposed by a temporary prescribing provision to be imposed by designated prescribing regulations. Given this ability, the temporary prescribing provisions are redundant and have been removed from the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThis bill also amends the licensing provisions in the Act to enable a licensing authority to take into account previous convictions when considering an applicant\u2019s fitness to hold a licence, and to impose conditions either when issuing a licence or at any time while a licence is in effect. The bill removes the provisions in the Act that deal with medicines approvals and will replace these with regulation-making powers. The default commencement date is set at 1 July 2017. This anticipates that the medicines approval process provisions in the bill are likely to be superseded by the establishment of the Australia New Zealand Therapeutic Products Agency, but provides a backstop should the implementation of the agency be delayed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EOf the submissions that addressed the medicines approvals process there was general support for the removal from the Act of the detail about the application and process requirements for the new and changed medicines and related products. Regardless of where the approvals process for medicines is developed, as a New Zealand - only scheme or as part of the joint agency scheme, the regulations will be risk based and provide different approval pathways to cater for medicines in different risk categories. Each pathway will trigger the application of a level of scrutiny that reflects the risk of the medicine. For example, in keeping with international norms, more rigorous scrutiny will be applied to higher-risk prescriptions, etc., etc. Medicines with known ingredients that can be purchased without a prescription would require less scrutiny. The regulations would be set out in the eligibility criteria for the different pathways and the validity requirements. They would also set out the process to be followed by the regulator and applicants to resolve, or not, technical queries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThis bill provides an opportunity to amend some specific provisions of the Medicines Act in advance of the comprehensive overhaul of the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00224b6c4da1f4fe49f5acc5f30e8ce275a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b6c4da1f4fe49f5acc5f30e8ce275a0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable Minister. His time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u00220c3efe1be66540f08c90f37353c6ea73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c3efe1be66540f08c90f37353c6ea73\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to follow such a fulsome contribution from the Minister for Building and Construction, Maurice Williamson, on the Medicines Amendment Bill, here on a Thursday morning during extended sitting hours\u2014a time for non-controversial legislation to be progressed through the House, legislation that has broad support from parties around the House. What an appropriate place for this Medicines Amendment Bill to be debated, and what an appropriate time, because the issues dealt with in this legislation ought to be non-controversial. They ought to draw broad support from across the House, but, unfortunately, to paraphrase Chris Auchinvole, it ain\u2019t always necessarily been so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe Medicines Amendment Bill does get broad support, and it is supported by the Labour Party. We support the fact that the bill streamlines the Medicines Act and amends some specific provisions in the legislation. I think the thing that the public will take most notice of is the work towards establishing the Australia New Zealand Therapeutic Products Agency. Having a trans-Tasman authority to oversee medicines and therapeutic products is a sensible thing that we should be working towards. Of course, we have been lurching towards it for some years now, but progress has been held up, and the politics of that I will address in a moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe other thing that New Zealanders will notice the most is the broadening of prescribing rights. To be honest, this is the thing that I am most interested in and most supportive of in this legislation. The ability for, in particular, nurse practitioners, but also other health practitioners, to gain prescribing rights I think is an important step towards improving the accessibility and availability of medicines and improving the flexibility of our health system. We know that it can be challenging for people to get access to appropriate health-care, and that can simply come down to the availability of appropriate health practitioners. In the 21st century I think we recognise that that does not always have to be a medical practitioner. It does not always have to be a doctor. We received a number of supportive submissions, particularly from the Nurses Organisation and other nursing representative organisations, for the extension of prescribing rights to nurses and to other health practitioners. There was some opposition. Sadly, but predictably, it came from the GPs and from the medical fraternity, who seem to think they are the only people qualified to deal in health, and particularly in medicines. It was not exactly die in the ditch stuff from the medical fraternity. I think they realise that the world has moved on. It was not exactly a strident submission from them, but nevertheless that is where the opposition came from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EAs I said, this is a bill that is necessary and improves the regulatory framework for medicines. But everything contained in this bill, the substance of this bill, could have been progressed 5 years ago had the National Party not decided to play politics with this important issue. The National Party withdrew its support for the then Therapeutic Products and Medicines Bill, which, interestingly, is the title of the legislation that we are working towards, of course, but the National Party saw an opportunity to put the Labour Government under pressure by withdrawing its support, meaning that that bill could not be progressed. This was not in the interests of good health-care in New Zealand. This was not in the interests of good regulation of medical products. It was not in the interests of good regulation of natural health and supplementary products, which we are also going to be dealing with this morning. This was pure politics. When I read last year that the Minister of Health, Tony Ryall, is, in the media\u2019s opinion, the best politician on the National benches I thought: \u201CYou know what? They are absolutely right.\u201D He is a terrible Minister of Health. He is ruining the health system. He is setting up all sorts of problems for future Governments to have to clean up, but, my goodness, Tony Ryall is a very, very good politician. Unfortunately, politics does not always make for the best lawmaking or the best regulatory system, or for improving our health system, but it can make for good politicians. I know that Dr Paul Hutchison agrees with all of this. He will not say so, of course, because he is whipped by his party, but Dr Paul Hutchison agrees with all of this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWhat did the National Party say that Labour had to do in order to keep its support for establishing good regulation around medicines? It was to take away the provisions in that original piece of legislation to do with natural products. Well, what is the next bill that we are going to be debating this morning? What did we work so hard on, Dr Hutchison, to align this piece of legislation with? It was the Natural Health\u2014and now\u2014Supplementary Products Bill, which actually shows how political National\u2019s opposition is to actually achieving everything that is achieved in this bill. Five long years ago it could have been done. We could have had nurses\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277258217e8d54104800fdabcdf2512eb\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Along with folate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b35b7b4d55e04e56b35514728a5edb15\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Along with folate, as well, Ms King says. We could have had a good regulatory framework for medicines. We could have had nurses prescribing. We could have had nurse practitioners, particularly diabetes nurse practitioners, doing more to deal with the tsunami of diabetes that this country is facing. We could have been tackling that 5 years ago, but, no, National likes to play politics when, actually, the thing we are supposed to do is get on and govern properly and do the right thing by New Zealanders. This bill, and the bill that is going to follow it, are both excellent pieces of legislation. It is just such a pity that in this case when the National Government actually, for once, got off its backside and did something about this bill, the thing is that what it did was completely contrary to the interests of New Zealand\u2014it put politics ahead of the health of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u00226eda0fa443c443cf9ba8ee9525b56cce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226eda0fa443c443cf9ba8ee9525b56cce\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E It is indeed a pleasure to speak on this Medicines Amendment Bill. Contrary to what Iain Lees-Galloway, the former speaker, said, this is yet another positive and continuing contribution by the National Government towards improving health in New Zealand, and I must say that the health situation in New Zealand, by objective measurements, has only improved under the Minister of Health\u2014the outstanding Minister of Health\u2014Tony Ryall, compared with a very miserable performance in the 9 years before. But I would like to acknowledge the work of the Health Committee on this important bill. We work as a very consensual committee, and it was very positive and an excellent result has been formulated. Secondly, I want to thank the 43 submitters, amongst which, again, there were some thoughtful submissions, and of course I thank the Ministry of Health staff, who were extraordinarily helpful to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThis bill is reflective of the need to deliver high-quality, safe, modern public services within tight budgets. I must remind the former speaker that the facts are that since 1950, the cost of living has gone up by 152 percent, but expenditure on health has gone up by 452 percent. That was totally forgotten by the previous Labour Government, which increased expenditure on health from $6 billion to $12 billion over 9 years, with no real increase in output. It was a failure. It totally failed to realise that it is important to expend every health dollar well, and that has been reversed under this National Government. But I do want to acknowledge Health Workforce New Zealand and others throughout our health system that are continuously looking for innovative new ways to work that will lead to better, sooner, more convenient health care for all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289c1ccf38146435ba8eca1af24a82397\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Slogans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220e90f11d2ed40bd8909c43a294ce46c\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: No slogan at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI do note that in the submissions the New Zealand Medical Association was, understandably, somewhat more conservative in its submission than others. It did support delegated prescribing under the supervision of a registered medical practitioner, but noted that the bill could enable any authorised prescriber, including nurse practitioners and optometrists, to also be responsible for delegated prescribing. I think it is understandable that it has a conservative approach, because at the end of the day the responsibility for mishaps\u2014and mishaps will always occur, and when it happens with prescribing, indeed, they will always continue to occur\u2014does indeed fall, at the end of the day, on the medical profession. But, on the other hand, the submissions from the nurses, the pharmacists, and the optometrists were far more activist in wanting to extend their prescribing rights. I have no doubt that at the end of the day the bottom line is that of patient safety, and again I welcome the initiative of this Government of forming the Health Quality and Safety Commission, led by the very able Professor Alan Merry, in ensuring that safety is absolutely at the bottom line of any legislation that may go to new and innovative measures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EAs was pointed out, this legislation is an interim measure intended to address some problematical provisions of the Medicines Act in advance of a comprehensive overhaul. That overhaul is likely to happen by mid-2016, when a single regulatory regime will occur across both countries\u2014Australia and New Zealand\u2014and that, of course, will be an extremely satisfactory advance. I do note that the nomenclature around this bill is somewhat mind-boggling. It does require a Gilbert and Sullivan alliterative command, as was so ably demonstrated by Maurice Williamson in his initial speech, when it comes to these new definitions of authorised, designated, and delegated prescribers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fcd26924334425fbea4a8dbafcfb026\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: I just read what I had in front of me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c28583c35d6a4e5798143eaeacee2f77\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: But he read it so well\u2014he read it so well. I will not go into further detail now, other than to say that this is yet another step in the innovative continued work of the National Government in ensuring that New Zealanders are delivered better, sooner, and more convenient health care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u002238bc2c9ae21c44dbb292774c64b799bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238bc2c9ae21c44dbb292774c64b799bb\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on the Medicines Amendment Bill and I take some pleasure in doing so, but I would have taken even greater pleasure in doing it 5 years ago. The member who has just resumed his seat, Paul Hutchison, who chaired the Health Committee\u2014I have to say in an extremely able way, and I have no beef with him about that, at all\u2014saw fit to take a flick at the previous Labour Government and its innovations in the health area, which was completely unjustified, and it would be remiss of me to allow that to go unchallenged in Hansard. So I would ask that member to recall the cut in prescription fees, the cancer control strategy, the breast-screening programme, and all the other helpful innovations that the Labour Government undertook in the health portfolio in the 9 years that we had the privilege of being on those benches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EIn the course of those improvements that we were making to the health sector, we proposed to bring in a Therapeutic Products and Medicines Bill, which, oddly enough, is exactly the same name as the bill that this Government is going to move on to in due course. But I remember distinctly from that time\u2014it was my first term in Parliament, and I was on the Health Committee\u2014Tony Ryall playing complete politics with the health of New Zealanders. He thought that he was on to a winning thing by joining with people under a series of red umbrellas out on the forecourt of Parliament to protest about natural supplements and the regulation of natural health supplements. In the process of his doing that, the bill was split into two parts, but, even so, the now Minister of Health could not at that time in Opposition bring himself to advance something that was going to be for the good of New Zealanders, and this delay in managing innovative measures of prescribing and of using our health workforce lies absolutely on that Minister\u2019s head. On his head lies the responsibility for the delay, a good 5 or 6-year delay\u20146 years now\u2014in bringing these innovations to this Parliament. So I do not want to hear any more about the wonderful Minister of Health, when people realise that his siding with Sue Kedgley, which he did only on the basis of politics and not on the basis of being committed to the issue that she raised\u2014which had validity, it is true. He engaged with the Green Party in a way we have never seen him do before or since and saw that this was a way that he could score some political points at that time at the expense of New Zealanders. I have no compunction about sheeting that responsibility home to this Minister, who continues to call himself the Minister of Health when in fact he should be called the \u201CMinister of Illness\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EWe are supporting this bill because it started with us and so we support it. We support the idea that there be regulated but extended powers of prescribing. When the Health Workforce New Zealand group started to look in the last few years at just how scopes of practice might be amended or adjusted to incorporate additional functions and tasks, that was greeted with applause from us. That is a sensible thing to do. If we are looking to maximise the appropriation that goes into health and at the same time ensure that what is delivered through the health appropriation is for the benefit of the greatest number of New Zealanders, then this is a good proposal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EExtending powers of prescribing, however, must be done only with the imprimatur of this House and with regulatory oversight by this House. People in New Zealand must have confidence that if they are going to get a prescription from a nurse, or a nurse practitioner, or an optometrist, or any other designated prescriber, then that person is competent to fulfil that task. And that competence must be regulated, must be monitored, and must be scrutinised, and in the end it becomes the responsibility of this House. We could have had this 6 years ago\u20146 years have gone by when people have still had to pay their $39, $42, $45, or sometimes $54 to go to a general practitioner just to get a script that could have been given to them by somebody who was appropriately qualified and regulated to do it. So for the last 6 years people have been paying unnecessarily for consultations with their general practitioner when, quite frankly, somebody else could have done that job, and that is the responsibility of this National Government and the responsibility of the National Opposition before it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EWe undertook the development of the delegated prescribing protocol when we were in Government. We think there is strong support for the general proposal across health professionals and also across the New Zealand public, who understand that they should not have to pay twice: once to go to an ophthalmologist and then to go to somebody who has prescribing rights to get the medication and the treatment they require. This will allow for more timely access for patients, especially in some of our more diverse community and rural settings, and that is really important. National could have delivered \u201CBetter, sooner, more convenient care\u201D 6 years ago to people in rural communities and provincial areas, had it not decided to play politics with it instead of recognising the merit of the bill that we were passing, even when we divided it into two so that the issues around natural health supplements could be addressed separately and the Green Party\u2019s concerns could be addressed properly in that regard. But, no, \u201CBetter, sooner, more convenient care\u201D was not on their minds when Government members were in Opposition. Opposing was on their mind when they were in Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ESo we support this bill. We welcome it. We think it is important that there is a more comprehensive overhaul of the Medicines Act. In fact, it could have been done more comprehensively. This bill remains an interim measure. I think that that is also a sign of inadequacy. In fact, the whole thing should have been done at once, but now we are passing an interim measure that will have to be revisited again shortly, and that is a shame. It is kind of a waste of Parliament\u2019s time, but, hopefully, the Government will sort itself out and we will get there in due course. Both this bill and the one that follows it, the Natural Health Products Bill, have our support, and we wish only that we could have voted for them some years ago. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u00223b75e3120f814813a00a74c30c9748eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b75e3120f814813a00a74c30c9748eb\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to take a call on this Medicines Amendment Bill and begin in the traditional way by thanking the officials who worked with the Health Committee on this bill. The arcane nature of some of the material in the bill, I think, meant that officials had to work particularly hard on this one, and their work was appreciated. I also thank my fellow members of the Health Committee. It is a committee that works very well together under Paul Hutchison\u2019s chairmanship and it did a great job on this bill. We actually made some substantive changes. Also I thank, of course, the submitters. It was, I think, difficult for submitters to get to grips with the nature of the bill, because although some consultation had been undertaken some years previously with a limited set of stakeholders, many submitters were coming to the bill for the first time because of the inadequacy of that earlier consultation process. The submissions we received were, I think, uniformly well thought through and appreciated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EIt is a long time ago that we were considering this bill. The Health Committee was considering submissions on this bill about a year ago, and one has to wonder, I think\u2014picking up on Maryan Street\u2019s point that this is an interim measure\u2014why on earth it would take a year for this bill to come back to the House. If the measures were needed for the interim, surely they were needed a year ago. There seems no reason at all why it could not have been progressed at that time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EMaurice Williamson has covered some of the detail of the bill, and I pick up on Paul Hutchison\u2019s perhaps backhanded compliment to Maurice Williamson\u2014describing it as \u201CGilbert and Sullivanian\u201D, perhaps. \u201CHe read all the speeches with a voice so clear that\u201D\u2014I am not sure what the second line would be, but maybe he is deserving of a promotion within Cabinet. The revised definitions were welcomed by all. I just note the need that will arise to align the definitions of medicines in other Acts with the one that is incorporated into the Medicines Act by this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe principal change made by this bill is to extend and elaborate the framework for prescribing rights, reflecting the creaky nature of the existing framework for prescribing. I think there was general support for the extension of authorised prescribers, and I note, in particular, the change made to nurse practitioners, which I think is very broadly welcomed across the country. Regarding designated providers, the changes made to this category are important for the flexibility of our prescribing framework, and I will come to that in a little more detail in a moment. And then regarding delegated prescribers, as Maurice Williamson has set out, this was not altogether uncontroversial, and Iain Lees-Galloway has also spoken about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI think we are cautiously of a mind still to accept this extension into delegated prescribing. I say \u201Ccautiously\u201D because to our way of thinking this category of prescribers still does not sit easily with the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Act. That, I think, is one of the matters that, as we move to the permanent resolution of these issues in the Medicines Act as opposed to the interim one, will need to be addressed by the Government\u2014probably by a Government that is less supine about the need for regulatory reform in the area of health. Regarding the category of temporary prescribers, as Maurice Williamson has said, it was good that the select committee recognised that that further category was not needed, and it has been scrapped in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe point of our regulatory regime around medicines has got to be threefold. It has to ensure timely access to medicines. The changes that we are making in this bill to the categories of prescribers adds to our ability to provide New Zealanders with timely access to medicines, and that is a good thing. Secondly, the regime must provide for the safety of New Zealanders. That, I think, is clearly what was at the heart of some of the concerns expressed by doctors about extending prescribing rights to other categories of health professionals, and I am satisfied that the provision exists for us to ensure safe prescribing of medicines. The onus now falls on the Director-General of Health and the Minister to ensure that that is carried forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe third purpose is one that is not normally articulated but is, I think, very important in the light of this bill, and that is to ensure that we make the best possible use of the health workforce that we have. This bill certainly makes a contribution in that regard. It is very important for the reason I outlined in my first reading speech\u2014and Iain Lees-Galloway, again, has spoken about it\u2014and that is the growing need for health services. A growing population, an ageing population, a population with more complex health needs all says our health system needs to do more and more. Against that backdrop we have a Government that has chosen to reduce health services funding in real terms and, within that sinking lid for health funding, to prioritise some particular areas that are of short-term importance and optical value, for political gain at the expense of everything else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI think everyone in this House ought to be sobered by the research that was published just a couple of weeks ago from the University of Otago showing, actually, that one in four New Zealanders over the age of 15 either has type 2 diabetes or has pre-diabetes. That is a rate much higher than was previously thought, and it is indicative of the kind of load that our health services are going to need to shoulder. Against that backdrop we have a Minister who comes to the House week after week making a smug claim about 1,000 extra doctors in response to questions about senior doctors, about our specialist workforce. We know that what he is doing is conflating, certainly, some extra senior doctors\u2014fewer than are needed to maintain parity against the growing health need, in fact\u2014along with junior doctors and a bunch of other people. That is what he is doing. He is conflating categories to provide a politically useful answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI think we also need to start drawing attention to the contribution of Health Workforce New Zealand, one of the Minister\u2019s initiatives, which is still producing a programme that is hopelessly poorly geared to the need that we actually have of serious workforce development in the health sector. Its programme is chaotic, haphazard, and clearly inadequate for the need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003ESo when we look to the extremely slow progress of this interim bill, it is emblematic of this Government\u2019s approach to health. In stark contrast to the growing extremely serious need for a comprehensive overhaul of our regulatory regime and our systems to enable this nation to cope with that tsunami of health need, this Government is choosing instead to work slowly and to make cosmetic changes that are in its political short-term interests rather than grappling with the serious long-term challenges that New Zealand faces. We have a health Minister who is clearly not up to the task.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u002253631600fbf84181bad18f688b0bc2ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253631600fbf84181bad18f688b0bc2ac\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of New Zealand First I rise to support the Medicines Amendment Bill. Like the previous speaker, Kevin Hague, I would like to thank the officials for their hard work. There were some parts of the bill that did need a lot of clarity for members, and the officials worked hard to ensure that we had that clarity. I would also like to thank the chair of the Health Committee, Dr Hutchison, for his patience, and I thank fellow members of the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThis bill has taken a long time to get back to the House. Why? We are totally unsure. We have had no reasons for the delay in this bill. New Zealand First supports this bill, the Medicines Amendment Bill, in view of the global advances that are happening in medicines and the changing role of medical practitioners. We in New Zealand First have always believed that decisions regarding health have to be timely, and this bill is one way, with the burgeoning disease burden that is now approaching New Zealand, that we can ensure that timely decisions are actually made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EBy altering the definitions of \u201Cmedicines\u201D and \u201Cmedical devices\u201D and further defining where various health professionals fit in on the prescribing framework, this bill will help to achieve the goal of timely decisions. What is the slogan we hear in this House quite often? Is it \u201CBetter, sooner, faster care\u201D, or is it \u201CBetter, sooner, more convenient care\u201D? We hear it daily, and we would like to believe it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022415e6ec4b25e450aa9b9bee7a6ac0654\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Why does Maryan Street oppose it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed19515e55184348bea79a62628d7a8f\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART\u003C/span\u003E: We are not opposing it; we are supporting it. We believe that this bill will actually enable New Zealanders to have a greater flexibility to get the most out of our health system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWhen one goes to an optometrist or a pharmacist or a nurse practitioner and some ailment is diagnosed, identified, and prescribed for, it makes sense to have that prescription written out at that time rather than going to the general practitioner at some later time and having to arrange the appointment. We all know that attending work is one of New Zealanders\u2019 greatest considerations, and the greatest percentage of New Zealanders try to take the minimum of sick leave. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EOne of the purposes of this bill, as the Hon Maurice Williamson said, is to modernise definitions to align with international norms. This tells us a lot. Where New Zealand was once considered one of the world\u2019s leaders in health information and health technology advances, we are now playing catch-up with our legislation, but it is an important step if we are ever going to get ahead. We do live in a time now when technology is accelerating advancements in health and medicine. As such, it is no surprise to find that the definitions of \u201Cmedicines\u201D, \u201Cmedical devices\u201D, and \u201Ctherapeutic purpose\u201D need adjusting from what is currently set out in the Medicines Act 1981. Realigning these meanings with the products that we find ourselves buying, time and time again, is timely. Over-the-counter products for self-medication have advanced in recent years. The number of advances in over-the-counter products like contact lens solution, eye drops, headache remedies, self-testing pregnancy kits, and nasal sprays cannot be considered by anyone to fall under the category of medicine and they should not be classified as such\u2014and no doubt there is a whole list of other things that should be mentioned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIn fact, technology has advanced significantly and it is inevitable that \u201Ctechnology\u201D in the regulations would need to be amended. We want these advances to continue, as we are the recipients, and we need to see the definitions of medical devices and medicines aligned with international norms. We live in an international world and we basically cannot afford to shut ourselves away in our corner of the world and ignore what is happening elsewhere. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWhom we see for a routine check-up or a repeat prescription has also changed quite markedly. Pharmacists, optometrists, dentists, and nurse practitioners are often the first port of call for minor ailments or for ongoing condition maintenance. Where would we be without the trusted community pharmacies that can provide a wide range of advice and remedies for a wide range of ailments from coughs and colds, first aid for a wide range of sports injuries, and everything else in between\u2014warts, nits, lice, everything? We have all been there and used those services and sometimes bought those products ourselves. It is an excellent service that the pharmacists provide, instead of people actually going to the doctor. Pharmacists always provide a very valuable, professional service to a very high level. It is instantly available, and people appreciate that. So we in New Zealand First were very pleased to see their prescribing regime actually changed recently, and we wish them well and hope that it continues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EOf course, we have to recognise, too, the increase in the amount of training that is actually given to pharmacy staff by various organisations. This has really given the pharmacy staff and the customers the benefit of the wider experience of those working in the pharmacy industry, making everyone\u2019s understanding of minor health ailments so much better, and allowing them to more ably select the self-medicating products that we rely on. With these subtle changes to the health model that we currently have, the legislation needed to catch up to accurately represent our experience within the health system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWhile working on this bill in the Health Committee, it became apparent that submitters generally supported the new regime and the new definitions. I am confident that the work done on the bill has resolved the queries of the various groups that discussed their submissions regarding the prescribing framework. It did take some work for all of us to understand the differences between an \u201Cauthorised prescriber\u201D, a \u201Cdesignated prescriber\u201D, and a \u201Cdelegated prescriber\u201D\u2014all of those terms that the Hon Maurice Williamson waxed lyrical about this morning. So we believe that we can support this part of the bill with confidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EDelegated prescribers are very important, and a valuable step away from \u201Chealth by postcode\u201D\u2014a problem that we really do not want to have. It is a good option, beyond the current prescribing practices that people currently have. When this role is totally established, it will help ensure that all New Zealanders have more convenient and efficient access to medicine. We believe these changes will also help bridge the gap between the rural and the urban experience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First supports the passing of this bill, as it allows for greater flexibility where medicine and health changes are happening at an incredible rate. We believe it is in the interests of our health outcomes to keep up with the changes. Safety, however, is a priority for New Zealand First. We will watch as the regulatory authority is created, and carefully monitor what problems are arising in this particular faction. Given we are seeking to increase the flexibility of our health system, we will support the bill right through all stages. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f62e68e68fba4848a62926ca7229f26a\u0022\u003ENatural Health Products Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002273ebe35df6db4278a8608c4bce03a610\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u002214d1dcaabd744db3affa4cbbf75e5f0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214d1dcaabd744db3affa4cbbf75e5f0d\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Minister of Energy and Resources) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Health: I move, That the Natural Health Products Bill be now read a second time. I thank the Health Committee for its thoughtful consideration of the Natural Health Products Bill. I would also like to give particular acknowledgment to the work of the excellent chair of the committee, Dr Paul Hutchison. The committee has recommended a number of amendments to the bill, which the Government will be supporting. I would also like to thank the members of the Regulations Review Committee, who provided important feedback on some technical aspects of the bill, which has been taken into account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe Natural Health Products Bill began its parliamentary life in 2011. It was developed by the Government in conjunction with the Green Party, pursuant to a memorandum of understanding signed in 2009. At this point in proceedings, I would like to acknowledge the work of Sue Kedgley and, more recently, that of Mojo Mathers, for the constructive way they have worked with the Government in helping to give the bill its current shape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe Government is particularly grateful to the Green Party for agreeing to be involved in the development of the regulations that will quickly follow the enactment of this bill. We acknowledge that the bill leaves some material for regulations that some submitters would have preferred to see in primary legislation. The regulations will set out technical detail that is not appropriate for primary legislation. The Government, with the Green Party\u2019s help, is determined to get these regulations right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the bill is to establish a regulatory regime in New Zealand for natural health and supplementary products, in accordance with four principles: first, these products, where sold, must be fit for human use; second, their regulation must be proportionate to the generally low risk of harm they pose; third, they are sold only with information that is accurate and tells consumers about their risks and benefits; and, fourth and finally, claims of health benefits are backed by scientific evidence or evidence of traditional use. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe Government acknowledges that most of these products demonstrably pose little or no risk of harm to the people who use them. However, it is clear that some form of consumer protection is warranted. At the very least, people are entitled to have confidence that the products they buy, with the intention of protecting or promoting their own health, are sanitary, contain all and only those ingredients they purport to contain, and have some chance of doing what they claim. The New Zealand public and indeed New Zealand law would not, for example, tolerate the sale of an air-conditioning unit that did nothing but waft asbestos through a building while failing to cool the air. Similarly, we do not intend to tolerate the sale of products that are not true to their labels, are not true to their claims, and may indeed be harmful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EIn all of human endeavour, nothing is wholly effective and wholly without risk. This applies to the promotion of human health in medical science and in the field of natural health and supplementary products. In the case of medicines, many of which are very new chemicals at the cutting edge of science, the Government requires rigorous scientific assessment before treatments are brought to the New Zealand market. Although by no means perfect, this is appropriate. The history of medical science shows that a number of treatments have had to be withdrawn after they were discovered, sometimes by tragic consequences, to do more harm than good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ENatural health and supplementary products belong in a different category. Many of these have been in continuous use for centuries and have never harmed anybody. On the other hand, some of these products have shown little evidence of effectiveness. The challenge is to achieve a sensible regulatory regime that protects consumers, acknowledges people\u2019s right to make decisions about their own health, and does not have a large negative impact on industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThis bill creates the Natural Health and Supplementary Products Regulatory Authority, as well as an advisory committee. The authority is to oversee the pre-market notification of products. To bring a product to market, a notifier must tell the authority what is in it, and it must consist solely of things from an open-ended list of permitted ingredients. There is also to be a list of forbidden ingredients, which will include prescription medicines and controlled drugs. The notifier must hold evidence, either scientific evidence or evidence of traditional use, to back up any claims of health benefit being made for the product. The notifier must provide the authority with that evidence if it is decided that a claim for a particular product warrants further investigation, and a summary of the evidence must be made publicly available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThere will be a publicly accessible database, created and maintained by the authority, of all notified products. A code of manufacturing practice will apply to all products. The most significant change made to the bill in the select committee relates to serious conditions. As initially drafted, the bill prevented any health claim being made that related to a serious condition. Everyone on the select committee agreed that it was important to make sure people were not discouraged from seeking clinical advice when necessary. This is still the intention of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWhat was found during the select committee\u2019s consideration of the bill was that there is no definition of \u201Cserious condition\u201D that worked. Either they were too loose and left the way open for excessive claims to be made, or they were too tight and would prevent claims being made about things like the relief of the symptoms of hay fever. The solution we have found is to allow the regulator to publish a list of conditions that sellers will be able to make claims about. This does not restrict any other claim, just ones about specific conditions. We expect the list to be long. We look forward to working with the Greens and the industry to make sure it is comprehensive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThere has been some concern expressed that we have changed the nature of the scheme. We have been told that it is now a pre-approval scheme, rather than easy and simple self-notification. This is not true. Indeed, it is precisely because this is not a pre-approval scheme that we have to do it this way. In other countries that regulate these products, there are pre-approval schemes. All claims have to be assessed by the regulator before they can be made. That means they do not have to be as careful in their definitions, because there is a check on everything that goes to market, but it adds time and it adds expense. The Government is committed to a low-cost, low-compliance scheme, and this bill reflects that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u00222836ec7cc65a4cc0976b94df390d89ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222836ec7cc65a4cc0976b94df390d89ff\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I take great pleasure in rising to speak to the Natural Health Products Bill. Once more, I wish to pay a tribute to the diligence of the chairperson of the Health Committee, Dr Paul Hutchison. He applied himself assiduously to this piece of legislation and the work of the committee was all the better for it, so I would like to place that on the record. I would also like to place on the record once again\u2014for the second time in about 30 minutes\u2014that this is an example of the Government changing its tune. When the politics ran out, the Government decided to do in office exactly what it had opposed in Opposition. Again, we could have had this area regulated 6 years ago had the Government not decided to play politics with it, regardless of the fact that it knew that natural health products and health supplements were a cause of great concern. So I put on the record that Mr Ryall now considers useful something he thought was abhorrent 7 years ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI welcome this. We on the select committee wrestled with this issue, because on the one hand it is really important to have a regulatory framework around anything that is being sold to the public as having some sort of therapeutic effect. Whether it is a cure or a relief of symptoms, the public needs to know that what is on the market for their consumption has been regulated and has gone through a process that determines whether or not the claims that the producer has for that product are justifiable or not. So we found ourselves traversing a wide range of products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EJust to highlight a couple that will perhaps demonstrate to the House what kinds of issues were at stake here, first of all we recommended amending clause 1 to change the bill\u2019s title to read \u201CNatural Health and Supplementary Products Bill\u201D\u2014not just the \u201CNatural Health Products Bill\u201D, but the \u201CNatural Health and Supplementary Products Bill\u201D\u2014because there is an increasing number of claims made for dietary supplements that have caused people concern and have required a closer regulatory oversight than we have had previously. In addition, we have seen various products change in their application over time. The most obvious example of this, and we referred to it in the select committee\u2019s report, is honey. We needed to be able to distinguish between a natural health or supplementary product, a food, and a medicine. With developments with the use of honey, there are different products; different uses for honey that have at different moments the purpose of a food, the purpose of a supplementary product, and the purpose of a medicine. Bandages that are impregnated with manuka honey have a therapeutic function. They have healing properties, and, in fact, Comvita\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279a3343eccd4495a9f1d1561318b68cb\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: A great local business\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220be8eaf894684116992a074b7e4709e4\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014a great organisation\u2014and others are exporting such products hugely, into the Asian market in particular. But honey, as a therapeutic product, is something that has been used for centuries. So as well as being a food, it has been used for medical purposes and as a supplementary product as well. So that just gives some idea, I think, for the House that we were looking at a range of products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EWe did not want to arrive at a regulatory system that was ludicrous. It was very easy to end up with a system that meant that teabags had to be regulated if they make claims\u2014as the teabags I use all the time do\u2014about peppermint tea providing clarity, camomile tea for relaxation, linden leaves for astuteness and as a pick-me-up, or about lemon balm, which since the 17th century has been used as a dispeller of the melancholy. Those kinds of traditional uses should not find themselves caught with ridiculous regulation. And so we have arrived, I think, at a regulatory system that is neither cumbersome nor light-handed. We have arrived at a regulatory system that requires people who are making products and laying claim to some therapeutic benefit to be able to justify that. Traditional medicines, including rongo\u0101, are still allowed and, clearly, have a process for regulation, but are not going to be hammered with unnecessary red tape as long as they do not claim to cure things and lead people up the garden path. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EIn other words, there have clearly been instances that have been brought to public attention where people have had terrible illnesses that some practitioners thought could have been healed by old therapeutic and traditional therapeutic means. Those have not succeeded and people, in the resistance to more modern medicine, have, in fact, died as a result of some of those treatments\u2014or the lack of other treatments that could have worked more effectively. I think that we have arrived at a system that allows for sensible, protective regulation, without being ridiculous about requiring Twinings to demonstrate its claims that camomile is a relaxant agent when people have known that for hundreds of years. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u00222dfe1aad9fde4210b17580d8da106003\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222dfe1aad9fde4210b17580d8da106003\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E It is indeed a pleasure to speak on this Natural Health Products Bill, which is shortly to become the Natural Health and Supplementary Products Bill, which is a far more fitting title. I too would like to acknowledge and thank the Health Committee for the incredibly constructive way that it worked. This bill did require a lot of thought, and, indeed, the committee did contribute very significantly in making changes that, at the end of the day, were consensual, were practical, and were appropriate for this challenging legislation. I want to acknowledge the officials, who were tested on many occasions. I think they had preconceived ideas about many of these things, but they were prepared to wrestle with them intellectually. Finally, I want to acknowledge the 739 submitters\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d130ff658634f9189d6bc4a6893e1c5\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Name them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5d6ea2cf22a4a49a50eb9ceca167d41\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot name them precisely, but many of them were extremely thoughtful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EPut thoughtfully, the bill seeks to regulate low-risk so-called natural health products in New Zealand. The original title sounds simple and easy, but in fact this was one of the most challenging pieces of legislation I have ever had to be involved with in this Parliament. I think that is because the bill literally has to deal with a clash of two important cultures\u2014one being the scientific and the other being the traditional. I am very pleased that the principles of the bill are spelt out clearly in the legislation. They include the fact that natural health and supplementary products should be accompanied by information that is accurate and tells consumers about any risks, side effects, or benefits of using the product, and, secondly, that health benefit claims made for natural health and supplementary products should be supported by scientific or traditional evidence. Having come from a scientific background, I do find bridging that gap to accommodate the idea that traditional evidence might support claims is quite a leap for me personally. But the bottom line is that the so-called natural health products should be safe for public consumption, that compliance measures are kept at a minimum, and that the public do have choice in what they can use. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThe committee came face to face with the significant problems of what does indeed constitute a so-called natural health product in the setting that many of these products have synthetic compounds, binding agents, and excipients. Natural health and supplementary products are widely consumed around the world. There are billions, if not trillions, of dollars spent on them every year around the world, whether or not they do good or harm. Some have clear scientific evidence of efficacy, and others have none whatsoever. This caused an obvious divide between many of the submitters on the bill. As I mentioned, significant commercial businesses have been formed where products with no scientific evidence whatsoever have been sold for centuries. However, this whole point about placebo effect and the use of complementary medicines has been accommodated throughout health systems right around the world today because we do know that individuals can get considerable benefit if they think that what they are using is going to be helpful. I always marvel at the fact that the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center\u2019s hospital in New York, which has a tradition of science about it, also has a complementary medicine department associated with it, to recognise the value of some of these traditional products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister has said that his Government will have science at its centre, and there is no doubt that in any legislation\u2014and, in particular, this type of legislation\u2014a strong evidence base behind policy is fundamental if it is going to be durable. I must say that I consider the submission made by the Chief Science Advisor to the Prime Minister, Professor Sir Peter Gluckman, was particularly salutary and worthy of noting. He mentions the original title of the bill, the Natural Health Products Bill, and he does say that \u201CIt is unfortunate that the bill has progressed so far with such a misleading title,\u201D. He also goes on to talk about the nature of evidence and how important it is to use the term \u201Cscientific evidence\u201D to mean knowledge arising from the scientific process of organised observation and hypothesis testing, whereas anecdotal information, or the opinions and impressions of individuals, does not constitute scientific evidence. He believes that it is very, very important to stress whether evidence on manufacturers\u2019 labels is scientific or traditional, and I absolute concur with that. I am very pleased that we have persuaded those behind the bill that manufacturers will be required to provide a summary of evidence backing up claims. The other point he made was that the New Zealand economy is based on food exports. Increasingly, the food industry is seeking to develop foods and nutraceuticals with proven and regulator-approved health claims. It is now about a billion-dollar industry. It is vital for New Zealand that we are credible in the way we treat these products. It is vital for our exports in this rapidly increasing field. He talked about exemptions and homeopathic issues where there is no accepted scientific evidence that homeopathy is efficacious. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EFinally, I just want to make a comment about the Natural Health and Supplementary Products Regulatory Authority. This will have considerable power and its decisions will be all-important. I want to put on record that I would like to see it ensure a strong evidence base behind its deliberations. Quite rightly, the committee amended the composition of membership to ensure there would be at least one member with experience in the manufacturing of these products, and at least one member with experience and qualifications in the field of science. I look forward to the Committee stage of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u00221fd24291c01c4cb3a1a7660a91d10f62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fd24291c01c4cb3a1a7660a91d10f62\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to echo the thoughts of Dr Hutchison in respect of the officials and the submitters at the Health Committee. This Natural Health and Supplementary Products Bill was a challenging piece of legislation. There is a range of balancing acts to be achieved in this legislation, and at the select committee we drew heavily on the advice of officials and the large range of submitters who appeared before us, as well, and I thank them for the time they took to work with us. This is an attempt\u2014and I think a very good attempt\u2014to secure consumer safety whilst balancing the scientific view with the traditional view in respect of natural and supplementary products, and I think we have done well to achieve that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIt would be remiss of me not to recognise that on the one hand we could have done this\u2014I think we have now figured out\u2014more like 7 years ago. It goes back to 2006, when Tony Ryall played politics with this piece of legislation and withdrew the National Party support. We could have made progress. We could have secured consumer safety all those years ago, but National, as it so often does, preferred to put politics ahead of health care and the well-being of New Zealanders. That point was actually raised by a number of the submitters who came to the select committee, because they actually felt duped by the National Party. As much as I disagreed with their position that there was no need for this legislation, I could understand why those submitters felt that they had been duped by the National Party, which said one thing in Opposition and then did completely the opposite thing in Government. Those submitters came to the select committee and they said there is no substantial difference between this legislation and what had been proposed by the Labour Government back in 2006. They pointed out the hypocrisy on display from the National Party regarding this issue. They came and said: \u201CWe do not understand how the National Party could have held that view 7 years ago and be progressing this legislation now that it is in Government.\u201D Nevertheless, I happen to not agree with those people, and the Labour Party has been consistent with that approach. We did not agree with them in 2006 and we do not agree with them now. We think this legislation is important, and it is great that we have broad support across the House for a sensible regulatory environment for natural health products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI appreciate the statements made by a number of the submitters that natural health products\u2014and, actually, I like the new title of the bill. I do not know when we are actually going to refer to this bill with the new title, but in terms of the natural health and supplementary products industry, I appreciate that it is a low-risk industry in that the products themselves are low-risk. Where I see the great risk, and I know that the Minister touched on this as well, is when people choose a substance for which there is very little scientific basis to support the claims made around that substance over a more mainstream medical approach. The risk there is that they may not be getting the appropriate treatment for the ailment they have, or they may in fact be putting themselves at greater risk by avoiding using something that we know works, and using instead something for which either the scientific or the traditional evidence basis has not been established. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThat is what this bill does. It says that if you are going to put a product on the market and make a health-related claim associated with that product, you have to provide evidence, whether it be scientific or traditional, that this product does what you say it will do. There is still an element of consumer choice here. There is still an element of consumers having to accept a level of risk, because consumers will have to look at the type of evidence available and they will have to consider whether they want to follow a scientific approach or a more traditional approach. That is people\u2019s individual choice, and that has been accommodated for in this legislation as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThere is one particular aspect of the select committee report that I would like to refer to, and that is the advice that the Health Committee received from the Regulations Review Committee regarding the \u201CHenry VIII\u201D clauses\u2014those clauses that empower the executive to override primary legislation with regulations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223328beca99e74b729f3bc70558f156b0\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: He died a long time ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207c08fe871974cd487e434f409b59844\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232d4f4ed15e44567a63ce87cff1adf63\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: He died a long time ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260dd7e80d379456f9c6e24624ea4f1f2\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Henry VIII did die a long time ago. That is true, but, nevertheless, we still call these things \u201CHenry VIII\u201D clauses. Such is the sometimes anachronistic nature of Parliament, Minister Bridges. Labour agrees that it is dangerous in the health sphere to allow the executive to override with regulation policy established by Parliament in legislation. It is particularly dangerous, I think, to let the current Minister of Health wield that power, because we know that Tony Ryall will always put politics ahead of health. The idea that Tony Ryall would have the power to override legislation in order to make a political point or to achieve some political point-scoring\u2014we just cannot trust that man with that kind of power. So I agree with the advice from the Regulations Review Committee that \u201CHenry VIII\u201D clauses are not ideal. We have to ensure that this legislation and the regulation established by this legislation cannot be overridden by the executive with regulation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis bill is well past its time. It is well past its due-by date. It is a pity that, like the Medicines Amendment Bill, it has taken an awfully long time to come back to the House. But I think, actually, one of the reasons for that was the desire to align the Medicines Amendment Bill and the Natural Health and Supplementary Products Bill, because, of course, they actually belong together in a single piece of legislation that could have been passed back in 2006. But it is good to see these bills being progressed in these extended sitting hours\u2014a time for non-controversial legislation that has the broad support of the House. Once again, it is just a pity that National insists on putting politics ahead of health care and consumer safety, and that this bill was not passed in 2006 when it should have been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022738deee9403c4037b5bcf23b4fe0557e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022738deee9403c4037b5bcf23b4fe0557e\u0022\u003EMOJO MATHERS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party is extremely pleased to be supporting this Natural Health Products Bill. Like others before me, I would like to thank all of the Health Committee members for their constructive approach on this bill. I would like to acknowledge the issues raised beforehand by Dr Paul Hutchison and by Maryan Street. There were elements of this bill that were quite challenging for us to deal with, and we all had to make a bridge between things like the challenge between scientific and traditional evidence, and the challenge proposed between different categories of food, natural health products, supplementary products, and medicines. But, overall, we are very pleased with this bill. One of the best outcomes for us in this bill is that it ensures that we retain control of setting the rules around the regulation of natural health and supplementary products within New Zealand rather than handing that over to the heavy-handed trans-Tasman regulator, as was originally proposed many years back. I would like to acknowledge the incredible work of my predecessor, Sue Kedgley, who worked incredibly hard on helping put down the foundations for this bill, and her steadfast commitment to bringing in a low-risk regulatory scheme that is appropriate for the low-risk nature of natural health products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EIt has been pointed out that we need these sensible rules that protect both consumers and manufacturers so that consumers can have confidence natural health products that they use are safe, that they do not contain toxic ingredients, and that they are not adulterated with medicines such as steroids, as is an increasing concern with some imports. We also need sensible rules so that New Zealand\u2019s reputation as a producer of quality natural health products is maintained. It is equally important that these rules are simple, low cost, and easy to comply with, in keeping with the low-risk nature of most natural health products, and so that consumer access and choice is not unduly restricted by excessive compliance costs. We are very pleased that the Government has agreed to meet the cost of policy and regulatory advice and enforcement, as well as the capital costs for setting up the scheme. A major focus for us was to ensure that the rules balance the need for protection with the risks of the products involved so that we do not end up strangling innovation, as has happened in Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EWe are particularly pleased that agreement was reached around our requests to include a schedule of approved pharmacopoeia in the bill. This schedule will make the process of approving traditional claims for low-risk conditions straightforward for many natural health products and will help keep compliance costs down. We are also very pleased that products prepared as part of traditional medicine practice on a one-to-one basis have been exempted as each product preparation is unique to the individual. Requiring each product to be notified would have made this practice unviable and impractical. The Green Party wanted to see a clause in the legislation to recognise the Treaty. We are disappointed that this has not been accepted at this stage. We will be moving a Supplementary Order Paper at the Committee stage to amend the legislation to include such a clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge here some of the concerns that were raised by submitters to the bill about what they felt might be potential impacts. In part some of these submissions were because of confusion with the Food Bill. One common concern that was expressed was around the delegation of powers under clause 45. Some submitters expressed a concern that this would mean that at some point in the future regulation powers would be delegated back to an overseas authority. Officials advised us that because section 41 of the State Sector Act 1988 allows only Public Service chief executives to delegate on behalf of the authority, and they can delegate only to Public Service employees, any delegation of power will be constrained by these requirements. So we are confident that under this bill there will not be any delegation of powers to an overseas regulator. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EAnother common concern expressed by submitters was that this bill would stop people from making their own home remedies for personal use. These concerns are unfounded. The bill covers the regulation of natural health products and supplementary products for sale and distribution in New Zealand where the term \u201Cproduct\u201D refers to the total product, which includes the ingredients, the packaging, and the claims. This bill does not affect products prepared by individuals for personal use rather than for onsale. So people will still be able to prepare their own herbal remedies that have been passed down through the generations. We are pleased that the Government has committed to ensuring that the detailed regulatory work that will affect much of how the bill works in practice will be undertaken in consultation with both the industry and the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EIt has been an incredibly interesting experience for me working on this bill. I have really appreciated the advice from Ministry of Health officials, who have had to deal with numerous inquiries from the committee on various aspects of this bill as we sought to gain clarification around the boundaries of the different aspects. As part of our memorandum of understanding agreement, the Government has also agreed that the Green Party will be involved in every stage of the development of the regulations, and I am looking forward to being part of this process and working for the best possible outcomes for consumers and manufacturers alike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u002260f9a576306f4941943f862745c99414\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260f9a576306f4941943f862745c99414\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I stand today on behalf of New Zealand First to support the Natural Health Products Bill. We are looking forward to the new title, the Natural Health and Supplementary Products Bill, because we believe that that far more accurately describes this bill. New Zealand First supports this bill, as it gives greater transparency to all New Zealand consumers of these particular products. Consumers need to have a clear understanding of what is actually in the product they are buying, and, of course, this needs to be listed on the label so that we can have some confidence in the product. This bill is about protecting consumers\u2019 health, which is something New Zealand First strongly supports. We believe that this bill will give greater confidence to consumers when they go into the health food shop to make the choices that they believe will help them along the way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIt was good to work on this bill in the Health Committee, to have an input, and to see such a collegial, cross-party approach to the reviewing of this bill. So thank you, Dr Hutchison, Dr Blue, other committee members, and, of course, the officials, who came to the committee endlessly. It was through this process that New Zealand First moved forward with its support of the bill. We did have some second thoughts about this bill to begin with and lots of queries, but these were rectified as the select committee process actually went on. Despite this, we are still going to be keeping an eye on the implementation process to ensure that our concerns do not come to fruition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EAs Dr Hutchison said, the Health Committee received many submissions on this particular bill\u2014739, to be precise. As a committee, we considered each and every one of them, so it was quite a time-consuming process. Exporters and consumers welcomed the safeguards and the validation of a regulatory system. It was really important to their business. But, on the other hand, some were afraid that this would create costs and barriers for manufacturers of such low-risk products, and these were some of the concerns that we in New Zealand First also shared. It was actually great to see such a large input from members of the public. It shows democracy in full force, as many different groups had their own say on the bill, and they all had many different ideas, which helped construct a bill that will reflect their ideas as well. I think this can also be reflected in the cross-party support for the Natural Health Products Bill and the equal balance of the bill. So now the select committee is confident that the bill will provide consumers with the assurance that the natural health and supplementary products they buy are safe and true to their label. There may be, however, some issues that we overlooked at the select committee. I received a letter from a consumer who thought that we should tighten up some parts of the bill. I hope that that letter was sent to all members of the Health Committee to act on, and as the process continues I will be looking to see whether or not those concerns are actually met. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe Natural Health Products Regulatory Authority is going to be set up within the Ministry of Health, and we in New Zealand First are going to be very interested to see whether the best people will actually be hired for the job or whether the Government is going to hire its mates. We will be keeping an eye on that particular area. The authority is going to be in charge of administering the Act and its regulations, because all of those who wish to import or manufacture natural health products, or those who arrange to import natural health products, are going to need to have approval from this regulatory authority. It will be a relatively straightforward process and not as strict as many of the consumers thought that perhaps it might be. All applications will be recorded in an online register, and the database will contain approved regulators of the ingredients, claims and evidence of health benefits and of manufacturing standards, a list of prohibited ingredients, and the notification of new ingredients prior to marketing. Of course, this is going to be crucial in ensuring that the process runs smoothly. In New Zealand First we did hold some concerns regarding the online database. We are going to be keeping just a watchful eye over that, particularly as we are very aware that the Government has not had the best of luck with its computer systems running smoothly, and all of the recent examples sort of bring that to mind. So it is something\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af8e9c44eed640f0bd1c953218a67ce5\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s coming right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022624d2c6c7efc4b1882f256c68817a602\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART\u003C/span\u003E: I am pleased that it is coming right. It is something that we will just be keeping an eye on, Dr Hutchison, to ensure that it does run smoothly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThere will also be the appointment of a technical advisory committee, which will be advising the authority on its decisions. We know that the members of the advisory committee will all be highly experienced. They must all have some knowledge and experience relating to natural health and supplementary products\u2014and Dr Hutchison agrees with me. This gives us some confidence that those in charge of the bill, the people who are doing this regulating, actually know what they are doing. This should help the bill heaps. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIn the past there have been lots of healthy supplements available in New Zealand that have not had a lot of products listed on the label or sometimes not even listed, and some of these products are totally unknown to many New Zealanders. Many have also contained little or no health benefit to the user, despite the fact that many consumers are led to believe by the advertising that they will be great for your health because they are natural and that we need them. On the other hand, some of these products have also been somewhat risky to consumers\u2019 health, yet the current legislation has never ever made this well known and clear to the consumer, and we are pleased to see that the new legislation will actually help out on this point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ETo illustrate the point, we were aware that there were recent cases of natural products that were imported into New Zealand from Asia that were popular and were claimed to be made from a plant growing in South-east Asia. Medsafe eventually discovered that this natural product contained mostly unnatural antibiotics. If at the time of this incident we had had the regulatory authority set up within the Ministry of Health, this product would more than likely never ever have made it into New Zealand and would not have had the opportunity to pose any potential harm to consumers. Also, consumers were led to believe that this product was going to be good for their health because it was an old wives\u2019 tale.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228746a073cae94bf5a5ddd83c63fcd2f9\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Very deceptive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298c2ba52689047919a12475a538cc9ac\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I think it is important to note that the bill does not impede practitioners from continuing to provide their services. This bill does not apply to any supplementary product that is made by a practitioner, because we are very aware that many New Zealanders will often choose to go to an alternative healer rather than to a medical practitioner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First will be supporting this bill, as it provides New Zealanders with greater transparency and confidence in knowing that the products they are buying are true to their label. It will ensure that New Zealanders are safe and that our products overseas are top quality, because we believe that an exporter-driven economy is absolutely paramount. Overseas buyers need to have confidence in these products. New Zealand First is very happy to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments recommended by the Health Committee by majority be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ed27489216f14167be72bad61b9c3f96\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 120\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1; United Future 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EQuestion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220ce6644ec82b408e93e617fff86ce685\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Natural Health Products Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 120\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1; United Future 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000308\u0022\u003EName changed to Natural Health and Supplementary Products Bill. \u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220613bde8e2ee4c8ba5d1a41708cfe0e9\u0022\u003EAdministration of Community Sentences and Orders Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bd30dbf03684409fa90a7824aad95d34\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00225a9ddeacffb94bcaacf4fcf1cff3d487\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a9ddeacffb94bcaacf4fcf1cff3d487\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Administration of Community Sentences and Orders Bill be now read a second time. This bill was introduced in October 2011, received its first reading in May 2012, and was reported back by the Law and Order Committee in October. I would like to thank the Law and Order Committee for its consideration of the bill and for the improvements it has made to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EOverall, the legislation governing the administration of the corrections system is working well. However, some provisions have been identified as barriers to the effectiveness and efficiency of the legislation achieving its statutory purpose. Two bills were introduced to remove such barriers: the Corrections Amendment Bill, which relates to prisons and was passed last month, and the present bill, which aims to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of the administration of sentences and orders in the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe Sentencing Act 2002, the Parole Act 2002, and, to a lesser extent, the Bail Act 2000 govern the management of offenders serving sentences in the community and of prisoners who have been released from prison. Major reform of the Sentencing Act and the Parole Act was undertaken in 2007. Since then a number of problems have been identified in administering the changes introduced by the reforms, particularly in relation to the administration of community sentences and orders. So this bill makes minor drafting amendments to these Acts to clarify operational procedure where an Act is silent or unclear, and where its interpretation has led to unintended consequences. The bill also introduces a number of minor policy changes to improve the effectiveness and efficiency of home detention, community-based sentences, and the electronic monitoring regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E I will briefly outline some of the more significant changes. Currently a home detention sentence is suspended when an appeal is lodged. The bill provides instead that the sentence will continue to run unless the appellant is granted bail. This, then, recognises that some home detainees who appeal may pose a risk to public safety if released into the community without restrictions. Sometimes offenders who abscond from community-based sentences are not located until the sentence has ended. The bill provides that time will cease to run on a sentence of supervision, intensive supervision, or community detention if an application is made to the court to vary or cancel that sentence because the offender is not complying with it. This will help to ensure that offenders who do not comply with their sentences are still held to account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EEnforcement problems can arise because the boundaries of an offender\u2019s address do not align with the boundaries of electronic monitoring equipment. Under the bill, where electronic monitoring is a condition of release or a condition of a community sentence, the offender will be required to remain within an area defined by a probation officer. Under current law, even a sentence of, say, 2 weeks\u2019 imprisonment automatically cancels a home detention sentence. Yet in some circumstances the completion of the home detention sentence may be in the interests of the community. This bill will give the court discretion to allow a home detention sentence to resume after such a short sentence of imprisonment. Administration problems can arise if a court imposes a non-custodial sentence that is incompatible with another non-custodial sentence already being served. The bill contains provisions to prevent this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EAs a result of ongoing analysis of issues addressed in the bill, the Department of Corrections has identified additional barriers to the effective and efficient management of offenders in the community. I asked the committee to consider some additional amendments that will remove these barriers, and the committee has included these amendments in the bill as reported back to the House. Some of these amendments are of a technical nature. However, they do include four minor policy changes that I wish to describe briefly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EFirstly, community magistrates currently have authority to impose community-based sentences, yet they cannot vary or cancel them. The bill now empowers community magistrates to vary or cancel community-based sentences that have been imposed by a community magistrate. Secondly, offenders who are serving sentences of home detention and community detention are required to stay at an address that the court specifies, on the advice of a probation officer. Sometimes the address will become unsuitable over the course of the sentence. When this happens, a probation officer may approve an alternative address, but has to apply to the court to have the sentence varied accordingly. Preparing these applications places an administrative burden on probation officers, and court time is not well spent considering them. The bill now recognises this by empowering the Chief Executive of the Department of Corrections to vary the address for sentences of home detention and community detention in these circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThirdly, a similar situation can arise for offenders released from prison who are subject to residential restrictions. If their residence becomes unsuitable, a probation officer must apply to the Parole Board to have it changed, but the probation officer\u2019s authority to manage the offender is limited until the board determines the application. So an amendment has been included to address this by enabling probation officers to approve an alternative residence while the board considers the application. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EFourthly, when an offender is serving 80 hours or more of community work, a probation officer may direct them to spend up to 20 percent of the sentence in training on basic work and living skills. However, probation officers can make such a direction only if the court so authorises them at sentencing or on application by the probation officer. Because it is subject to such a cumbersome process, enrolment in the training is limited and offenders may miss out on opportunities to reduce their risk of reoffending. To address this, the bill has been amended to allow probation officers, without reference to the court, to direct that up to 20 percent of the sentence be spent in training on basic work and living skills, if the probation officer believes that it will reduce the offender\u2019s risk of reoffending. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe committee has also made some minor adjustments to the bill, on the advice of the Department of Corrections. Most of these are technical or consequential to existing amendments. Others develop some of the procedures introduced by the bill in ways that are necessary for their proper application. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, the measures in this bill will contribute to public safety and improve the effectiveness and efficiency of the management of offenders in the community. I thank again the select committee for all its hard work, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u00220275e5834676450c94e8cabf25a41376\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220275e5834676450c94e8cabf25a41376\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much for the chance to speak to the second reading of the Administration of Community Sentences and Orders Bill and to just say, from the very outset, that Labour will continue to support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ECan I acknowledge the members of the Law and Order Committee for the way in which it worked on this bill. Our select committee, as Mr Goff and I will say, works in a very collegial manner and, in respect of this bill, because we did not have any major opposition to it, we worked well. I note that the previous bill, the Natural Health and Supplementary Products Bill, that was debated had 739 submissions. This bill had only five. I think they were from the Law Society, the Salvation Army, and JustSpeak, which is the youth wing of Rethinking Crime and Punishment. They were the main submitters on this bill and we thank them for making their submissions and for making some very good recommendations on the bill to the select committee. Can we just also acknowledge the work of the officials who helped us during the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ELabour supports this bill. It does make some technical changes to enable the Department of Corrections to more effectively and efficiently manage community sentences and orders in our community. We do support the corrections system, which secures public safety and ensures rehabilitation. This legislation makes, as the Minister of Corrections said, changes to the barriers to the effective management of home detention, community-based sentences, electronic monitoring, parole, and extended supervision orders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E The Department of Corrections is set to become the largest Government department. I think it was the Deputy Prime Minister himself, Bill English, who said that prisons are a moral and fiscal failure. It is important to note that we do have an approach with the Department of Corrections that is evidence-based and that works well to make sure that we have effective rehabilitation of prisoners. Before I traverse some of the details of the bill, I just want to look at what Bill English said around the moral and fiscal failure of the prison system. We did have a submission from the Salvation Army that looked at some Ministry of Justice figures from 2009 that said 23 percent of those on home detention in 2009 were re-convicted in the following 12 months. Conversely, 52.6 percent of those who served a custodial sentence, who were locked up in our prisons in that year, were re-convicted in the following 12 months. So we are doing a much better job of reducing the recidivism rate of those serving community sentences and community orders than of those people whom we are locking up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ELet me be clear: there will always be an element of people in New Zealand who, when caught and convicted of serious, significant, or sickening crimes, need to be locked up and kept away from the rest of the community. Some are so bad that they may never taste freedom again. But for those criminals who are serving shorter sentences, we have to ask the question of whether the public is safer in the long term due to their incarceration. Are we serving our duty as the State to protect the public by rehabilitating people so we have fewer victims and less crime? The question has to be asked as to whether we are serving the dual purpose of punishment and ensuring that, upon release, those people do not go out and create more pain. Again, as I have said, the Salvation Army did quote those figures from 2009 that say we are doing a much better job of rehabilitating those on community orders than we are with those people whom we are locking up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESafeguards must be put in place to make sure that we get rid of as much risk as we can when we have people serving community-based sentences. I believe that in the future we must look at community-based sentences as a way of being much more fiscally prudent, and ensure we are doing a better job of making sure we rehabilitate the people whom we are sentencing. On the fiscal side, it is costing taxpayers about $58 a day to keep someone in home detention, and that is roughly a quarter of what it costs to keep someone in prison, which is a cost of about $250 a day. So on the fiscal side of things, it makes sense to ensure that for those who we think can be rehabilitated and can serve a sentence in the community, it is much cheaper to do that, and it could be much more effective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI would just like to look at the bill, as I have said, and look at some of the details. The Law Society did have some concerns around one of the points that the Minister raised about halting community sentences while a non-compliance order was appealed in the court. It believes that if the sentence continued to be served, some people could serve an extra-long sentence while the court considered that. I think that in the bill we have given the courts some flexibility to be able to use some discretion as to whether time has been served or time has not been served. Also, as the Minister mentioned, we have given the Department of Corrections some more flexibility around its ability to transfer community sentence hours to community sentence training. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI do want to note the work that the Minister is doing around education in prisons. I think she was recently at Arohata Women\u2019s Prison in Tawa, where she was promoting some more education work within the prison and for inmates. As she said, and we agree with her on this side of the House, education is a very important part. That is actually the key to making sure that we rehabilitate inmates to make sure we reduce crime and reduce the number of victims when those inmates come out of prison. So credit where credit is due for the commitment the Minister is making to those education schemes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EOne other point I want to look at is that we are giving a little bit more flexibility to the Department of Corrections, as Melissa Lee said, when there is a change of address, when a residence where a sentence of home detention is being served has become unsuitable. We think it has been onerous when in the past a parole officer has made a temporary change of address and has had to go to court to change the permanent address. We are now giving the chief executive the option of being able to vary a home detention residence so that we do not have the hold-up we have had in the past. I think that is another way in which the Department of Corrections can effectively and efficiently manage a home detention or community service order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, we will support this bill. It does make some technical changes that we think will help community services to be much more effective and efficient, and we believe that these kinds of sentences should be the way to go forward. Cheers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022815df9bd8c9f4290a53a22445083365d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022815df9bd8c9f4290a53a22445083365d\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E As the Minister of Corrections, the Hon Anne Tolley, has so eloquently described the process that this Administration of Community Sentences and Orders Bill is to follow, I do not need to get into the detail too much, other than to say that I guess the bill is the second leg of the double. The first was the Corrections Amendment Bill, which was passed into law last month, and it tidied up a number of matters related to prison management. This bill tidies up a number of matters related to extended supervision and the sentencing and parole reforms of 2007. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI want to very briefly refer to the Law and Order Committee. Our chair Jacqui Dean would be wanting to thank all who took part in the process: the submitters and the people who helped work through this bill with us. The cooperation from all was quite apparent, and from our perspective it was a great result. I have no problem commending this bill to its next step in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022a654cc937ee941d6b9f287bedb047fb6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a654cc937ee941d6b9f287bedb047fb6\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Party supported this bill, the Administration of Community Sentences and Orders Bill, on its first reading. We worked constructively on the bill at the Law and Order Committee, and we are supporting the second reading of this bill. I think that shows that when you get substantive legislation\u2014and in this case the legislation is dealing with relatively small changes\u2014that is properly thought through and is genuinely motivated to get our justice system and our corrections system to work better, you will get unanimity surrounding it on the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI have to say, regretfully, that not all justice legislation is like this. Law and order in this country has for a long time been a political football. It is not like that in every country. In countries like Finland you actually do get bipartisan approaches. Those bipartisan approaches are based on what works, rather than what superficial appeals to public emotion about some of the pretty awful criminals\u2014and they are\u2014in our community. Too much of our legislation is simply strong on rhetoric and short on having any actual substance that makes a difference to making people safer. That is what we should be trying to do in this House\u2014pass justice and corrections legislation that does make people safer. This legislation was formulated within the Ministry of Justice and the Department of Corrections\u2014not in the National Party research unit\u2014so it made it somewhat easier for people looking objectively at the bill to say: \u201CYes, this is a piece of legislation worth supporting.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe bill amends four pieces of legislation: the Bail Act 2000, the Sentencing Act 2002, the Parole Act 2002, and the Bail Amendment Act 2011. I actually had the privilege of being the Minister who passed the first three of those pieces of legislation. They are landmark pieces of legislation. They literally and figuratively brought our justice and corrections system into the 21st century\u2014they modernised it. The work that went into those pieces of legislation was extraordinary. I had a very good deputy secretary at that time by the name of Warren Young, who was previously a professor of criminology. We consulted widely, we worked hard on the legislation, and that legislation, I am very proud to say, has stood the test of time. The Minister of Corrections acknowledged in I think both her first and her second reading speeches that, by and large, this legislation has worked well and is administering corrections in the way it should. If we look at a corrections system that is working better today than it has historically, in part that is because it has decent legislation to operate under. Having said that, there is always room to make improvements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWhat this legislation does is actually introduce\u2014and it describes them as this\u2014minor policy changes to improve the effectiveness and the efficiency of home detention, of community-based sentences, and of the electronic monitoring regime. It also makes minor drafting amendments to clarify operational procedures. Before I get into just some of the practical things that it does\u2014and I will not go into them in detail, because they are not important\u2014I want to contemplate for just a moment the effectiveness of the sentences of home detention, which we introduced in 2007. I want to do that at this time, because there are members who are still members of this House, now sitting on the Government benches, who decried the whole concept of home detention\u2014it was soft on crime, it would make people unsafe, and it was evidence of a Government that did not stand tough on law and order. You know, those members will not get up in this House now and contribute to this debate, because now the evidence is there of how absolutely wrong they were. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe Government did a review on the sentence of home detention, and this is what it found. It found that the proportion of offenders sentenced to home detention in 2007-08 and in the following year, 2008-09, that were reconvicted in the following 12 months was 21.5 percent and 23 percent respectively. Although that was higher than what we might want, it was less than half of those who served the same length of time on short prison sentences, which was 50.3 percent and 52.6 percent. So what we have there is very clear evidence that if you are interested in actually changing the behaviour of people who have been offenders against the law, home detention is far more effective in doing that than is the alternative of a short prison sentence. It is not hard to work out why. When you are put in prison, you are in prison with a peer group of people who have committed much worse offences than you might have been in for on a relatively short sentence, and you take the cue for your behaviour from the peer group that you are living with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe other advantage of home detention was, of course, the cost to the taxpayer. It does cost money to keep people on home detention. It is about $58 a day. But if you look at what it costs to keep a person imprisoned, it is $250 a day. It is just slightly less, actually\u2014it is $249. It costs $250 a day to keep them imprisoned on a short prison sentence that may be 3 to 6 months, and they come out more likely to reoffend than when you put them in. The other good reason for home detention is this: the offender is still in the community\u2014and it is usually his responsibilities to his family\u2014and is still meeting his responsibilities to the community by going out to work, supporting his family, and paying tax on the income that he earns. So I hope that people who were so vehemently opposed to this, and who gave outrageous speeches in the House about what home detention might do\u2014and I am thinking, I suppose, of people like Mr Ryall\u2014might reflect on their rhetoric then and reflect on the reality of the fact that this sentence has in fact been very effective. So that reinforces the point I started making that when we pass legislation in this House on justice and on corrections, let us make sure it is evidence-based. Let us make sure it is rational. Let us make sure it actually does work to make our community safer. And let us forget the race to the bottom on who can flex their muscles and show that they are tougher on law and order, when, unfortunately, that so-called toughness often leaves the community worse protected rather than better protected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EIt is good to see the National Party when it is in Government being more responsible on these issues than when it is in Opposition. Just very briefly on some of the provisions made by the legislation\u2014[Interruption] I am sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252518cc104074140b8a6cbec64b96d7d\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: I was just saying a very responsible Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294aaadf9864346709de15428a122330b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, it is a very poor Government, but forced to be more responsible on justice policy when it has to bear the consequences of what it says than when it is in Opposition, when it makes outrageous and dishonest statements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ESome of the changes that are being made\u2014I am not going to go through all of them\u2014to the Sentencing Act, and things like requiring pre-sentence reports before the offender is sentenced to home detention or community work sentences, make sense. You could not be opposed to that\u2014clarifying the maximum number of hours that they may be required to work under community work sentences, clarifying the situation when an offender who is serving a home detention or community-based sentence is subsequently sentenced to another home detention or community-based sentence, and electronic monitoring, where you actually align the sentence to what the electronic surveillance equipment allows, because the two were not in alignment and that was producing a silly situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWe also looked at some changes that the Minister put forward in her Supplementary Order Paper, with community magistrates being able to alter or cancel sentences previously imposed by community magistrates, allowing the Chief Executive of the Department of Corrections to approve changes of address for home or community detention, and allowing probation officers, rather than the court, to direct that 20 percent of a community work sentence of at least 80 hours be spent in training in basic work and living skills. They are sensible changes, they have been supported by the Opposition on the select committee, and we will always support things that are sensible. We will oppose things that are not evidence-based, things that are simply designed for political purposes, things that are dishonest in what they claim for the public, and things that are counter-productive in what they actually produce in terms of community safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022251bfc82761b491b837501219ffde4db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022251bfc82761b491b837501219ffde4db\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a short call on this bill, the Administration of Community Sentences and Orders Bill, which the Greens have supported to this point. We will continue to support the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI recall in my first reading speech that I confessed we were somewhat suspicious of this bill when we first saw it, because it was a Government justice bill that on the face of it actually did a lot of good. At that point\u2014a year or so ago\u2014we did not have much experience of Government justice bills that threatened to do good, rather than be regressive and backward-looking. So, yes, good sense prevailed. It is a useful set of amendments that are being made, and for that reason we are pleased to continue our support. The point has been made that this bill amends legislation that is, in every instance, relatively new\u2014certainly nothing more than perhaps 10 or 12 years old. But, clearly, some of the work of the bill is to acknowledge technology changes, particularly in the area of electronic monitoring and those sorts of things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe had some really interesting conversations at the Law and Order Committee in terms of how continued technology changes might require us to adapt and adopt in terms of the increased sophistication of GPS, which will enable us to much more readily identify exactly where offenders are located. I think there will be a lot of goodwill to amend our legislation, our regulations, to enable us to adopt that technology as it evolves and improves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003ESome of the other minor\u2014well, not minor\u2014amendments we agreed to were giving more discretion to people at the coalfaces, if you like, giving more discretion to probation officers to make and effect changes without necessarily having to have recourse to the courts. We think that is appropriate, giving these people, who are disciplined, hard-working people, a degree of authority. Discretion making is a good thing, with the one provision that we must also acknowledge that they must be well supported in that work. We must not devolve responsibility without also devolving the ability and the resources those people require to do the very difficult work that they do in the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI would say in a general way we are supportive of this bill because we see community-based sentences as the way of the future. We know community-based sentences are far, far preferable to imprisonment, particularly to short terms of imprisonment. Mr Faafoi and Mr Goff have already rattled off the numbers, and that is useful, so I need not delve into it, but we know community-based sentences are dramatically less expensive in financial terms than a short imprisonment, to the tune, I think, of barely one-quarter of the cost. We know the recidivism rate of people who have served community sentences is also dramatically lower than for people who do short prison terms\u2014or, indeed, long prison terms. So we do see that community sentences are the way forward. We should be resorting to them much more routinely. We need to be quite creative in how we assign and how we structure the requirement that people do community work, do community service, or, indeed, do home detention, in order to repay, to be punished, and to acknowledge that they have done wrong to the wider society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EOne of the great advantages of community sentences generally is that they remove that transition phase. If I may be so bold as to insert an advertisement into these comments, we saw last year an excellent book written by Anne Opie called from Outlaw to Citizen: Making the Transition from Prison in New Zealand. It highlighted the enormous social and economic cost of imprisoning people, acknowledging that very, very few inmates in New Zealand do not ultimately end up back in our communities. To the extent that we can, we should keep people out of prison in the first place. Prison brutalises people. It dehumanises them. It reduces or even eliminates the ability of those people to function in normal society. It is not helpful that we imprison such large numbers of people in New Zealand. Anne Opie made the point that her book was very solidly grounded in academia, in research. Anywhere you see in a bibliography references to Derrida and Foucault, you know you are not in for an easy read, but it was also blended with real-life stories based on interviews, the lived experience of New Zealanders who have been through the prison system and have come out worse off\u2014and we are collectively worse off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EAs others have commented, and I am under no illusions, we will always need some form of imprisonment. There are those people who are so damaged that they cannot be, and will never be able to be, released back into society, for its general safety and well-being, but that does not describe the something like 85 percent of our prison population who could be dealt with in ways other than imprisonment. So refining, improving, and broadening the range of community-based sentences that are available to the courts, that are available to us to clearly signal our disapproval of people\u2019s offending, and to ensure there is a level of restraint on their freedom for a time is important, but the purpose must always be to make them better able to operate in civil society and less likely to offend against it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E I am pleased that we have got a degree of unity in the House on the importance of community sentencing and some of the ways and means by which we might ensure that people do become contributing citizens, that they become the citizen rather than the outlaw\u2014the recidivist outlaw, whom we are seeing far too much of at the moment. I think I can leave my comments there, except to once again close with yet another advertisement. I do believe that there is a great deal of good research being done\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203414685b8f14b1fa07c9d2894db5658\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Very commercial. Didn\u2019t know he had it in him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022439ef83df11f4939a83cf41e82107730\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON\u003C/span\u003E: Very commercial today, indeed, but all in a good cause. This evening I am looking forward to going to the launch of yet another book. Professor John Pratt, a professor of criminology at Victoria University, is releasing a book that is essentially a comparative study of New Zealand corrections, the justice system, with those of the Nordic\u2014the northern European\u2014countries. His findings in brief\u2014and I do him a disservice by trying to sum them up in a line or two\u2014are that effectively we are getting it very, very wrong with our focus on a punitive prison-based system, rather than one that seeks to deal with the individual and with their behaviours, and endeavours to keep those people within the community, rather than isolate them from it, except in those extreme cases that I referred to earlier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003ESo we do have an emerging body of knowledge, an emerging body of research, that tells us how in New Zealand we can get it right. [Interruption] Thank you for the indication of support for my comments, Mr Hayes. I value that highly from you. We have a body of research and information telling us how we can get it right in New Zealand. We have been getting it wrong for a long time. Increased focus on community sentences, improving the quality of those, improving the likelihood of success, turning people round, turning them away from a vicious cycle of offending and reoffending is clearly to our collective good, and we are happy to support this legislation. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd9f3d70aace42a89d497596dd126cc3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd9f3d70aace42a89d497596dd126cc3\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Rather than babble on with inane comments, I would simply like to say that this bill, the Administration of Community Services and Orders Bill, is an excellent piece of legislation, which I support. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022 data-id=\u002269e87fb7548e4121bcd4c62e6f4bce88\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269e87fb7548e4121bcd4c62e6f4bce88\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I actually thought that the member who has just resumed his seat, John Hayes, would consider this bill, the Administration of Community Services and Orders Bill, to be an important part of electioneering, which is something that the National Party is very good at doing during the time of an election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EEfficiency is doing things right; effectiveness is doing the right things. This bill, which has been introduced by the Government, is for the purpose of fixing loopholes in the current legislation or the current administration of non-custodial sentences. The current system is flawed, and this bill attempts to create certainty in our justice system, and it is about time. Law and order is a crucial selling point while electioneering, I say to John Hayes, and therefore it should come as no surprise that this Government is trying to close loopholes that have surfaced over the years regarding administrative limitation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226de11e16ac7e4177935f2cbeef92fcc2\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Did you say that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d67b36b2d5e14bc791b86f4fe0057898\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think he was listening. It is about time that this Government strengthened these policies so that they do not create or foster unintended outcomes. The last thing that New Zealanders need is loopholes in the justice system that favour criminal behaviour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First strongly believes that to achieve law and order effectively in New Zealand the public should have confidence in our justice system. New Zealand First also maintains a strong stand that for a nation of our size we have far too many people in prison. So let us not go into the details about the cost involved while the Minister of Corrections is ignorantly building new prisons around the country that we do not need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EWe all know that putting someone in prison and throwing away the key does not solve anything. Having said that, the other option is non-custodial sentences. This is what this bill intends to fix. Yes, we agree that the prison population should be reduced. However, in placing offenders in our communities, it is of utmost importance that they are closely monitored. Community safety is absolutely vital and a priority for our nation. All New Zealanders have a right to feel safe and free to go about their daily lives within our communities. People in this country should not have to feel threatened or intimidated by offenders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EAs policy makers, we need to realise that the machinery is not confined to only front-line staff. We ourselves need to be more empathetic towards the administrative nature in which policies will function. We cannot just come up with an idea and theorise all the pros and cons if we are not going to consider how practical these policies will turn out to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EOne particular issue that I highlighted in the first reading of this bill was the issue of information sharing between the Department of Corrections and the probation service. It is all well and good to ask for mandatory pre-sentencing reports to be done, but will the probation service be provided with the resources to do so? I say to the Minister, do not be afraid to give up the good to go for the great. For years it has been requested that the probation service be given access to the prison service\u2019s integrated offender management system, or IOMS. New Zealand First has some concerns\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb8105b0e6348be83447a75c60cc482\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re getting it. It\u2019s happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279d8e31b8b7842f6a05a89c20459b715\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR\u003C/span\u003E: But they have not done it yet, Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First has some concerns around the delivery expectations of a number of these amendments, particularly those that rely heavily on the Community Probation and Psychological Services for their oversight and administration. Let me say, before I make reference to that, that I believe that the current chief executive, Ray Smith, is to be commended for the step that he has taken to move corrections forward. From my experience, his one-team approach will be a tough assignment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EOne of the toughest nuts to crack will be probation. This is an organisation that has dragged its feet in terms of changing culture, improving efficiency, and dealing to a culture of cliques and cronyism. As a prime example, I believe the probation service is still waffling about having access to or sharing the integrated offender management system with its one-team partners. I note that the probation service has a high number of psychologists within its ranks, as does corrections generally. Many of them are new immigrants from the United Kingdom, South Africa, and Europe. Of course, they bring with them fancy bits of paper proclaiming all sorts of qualifications. What they do not bring is real cultural understanding, and by that I mean M\u0101ori and Pacific cultures. Those cultures make up the vast majority of the prison population. A short Te Reo course, study papers from a journal, or an overnight stay at a marae plus a few kia oras here and there just do not cut it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003ECommon sense tells us that the probation service needs real people with drive and real-life experience who have worked at the coalface to make a real difference. The endless meetings where our highly qualified experts bang on about pie in the sky and old-world theory, and throw around a few clich\u00E9s, do not cut it for me. Believe me, I have observed the endless, mindless chatter and backslapping going on at non-events in my previous role. It is a culture that is brought about by so-called experts who like to baffle their people with an endless supply of bovine effluent that serves only to muddy the already murky waters within the Community Probation and Psychological Services. Yes, I have seen the glossy pictures, awards, and all the smiling faces, yet the real question lingers: can we place yet more responsibility on these people to administer this legislation? Do we trust them not to, once again, pay lip-service to the amendments that are before us today? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EToday I make a challenge to the Minister. Does she have absolute confidence that the \u201COne Team Corrections\u201D, and in particular the probation service, are up to the task? It seems common sense that if a pre-sentence report is required before an offender is sentenced to home detention and community detention, access to file notes, incident reports, and misconduct reports will be useful. In doing so we can avoid the countless errors made over the years with offenders. It is crucial that this Government takes steps to strengthen the way in which home detention is supervised and the monitoring requirements in relation to community-based sentences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EProbation officers are given more powers, but will they have the resources? Will they have the resources? With this bill, probation officers will be given the authorisation to direct up to 20 percent of community work sentences of at least 80 hours to be spent in training on basic work and living skills. The initiative has been introduced to reduce barriers to the training of offenders. As a strong supporter of rehabilitation methods, I say that it will be vital that probation officers use this authorisation with discretion. Yes, we want to see these offenders develop living skills to ultimately prepare them for reintegration back into the communities. However, we are sceptical of the approach allowing probation officers powers that only the judiciary once held. We want to know what cost will be incurred with more offenders directed for training. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EJust last year our Minister of Corrections, Anne Tolley, signed off on a $300 million public-private partnership deal with Fletcher\u2019s to design and build in South Auckland the new Wiri Prison. This is astounding because in the same year we also have had numerous reports and mockumentaries stating our harsh reality regarding child poverty. What does this signal to the rest of the world, and, more important, what does this signal to New Zealanders? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First supports the intention of this bill to remove barriers to managing offenders in the community safely and effectively. A genuine Government is not a searcher for consensus but a moulder of consensus. On that sobering note I can say that New Zealand First supports this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130320f16b4b41309646f1b21d3b3ff309a48b000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 12.57 p.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"