"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229410e6d7d13046349891d29fe7f2bdc6\u0022\u003EThursday, 21 March 2013\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ccd01b12eb96469790989b10b81e5896\u0022\u003EThursday, 21 March 2013\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022941d70b3fccb4e6a9ed298a55f405a6b\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022538ee00bf0f5411e8a4e3137273f99d8\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224b6039f13a1445f6b93d7d83f998b0d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b6039f13a1445f6b93d7d83f998b0d3\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E When the House resumes on Tuesday, 26 March the Government will look to progress the Student Loan Scheme Amendment Bill (No 2), the Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill, and the Local Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2). Wednesday is a members\u2019 day. As Thursday is the day before the Easter break, I would expect the Business Committee to consider an earlier lifting time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e951e0598da74bd4a27e2a032dd44918\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002250394106578c47b28c939a2efa051481\u0022\u003EHuman Rights\u2014International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u002291b0dce301604177ba7a5d303d6bc67a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291b0dce301604177ba7a5d303d6bc67a\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to move a motion without notice and without debate concerning the International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c8aa552e723467382264662e6b06137\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There appears to be none. It can be so moved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e79c8fe8bcc74589b76d214b13e43d1b\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That this House note that today is the International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, and that it supports the United Nations Secretary-General\u2019s call that we should recommit to ending racial discrimination and realising our vision of justice, equality, and freedom from fear for all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229dcc4b89262b4cca8173034fc9856f84\u0022\u003EWorld Down Syndrome Day\u2014Eighth Anniversary\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec47153f64e04c21b33a63f900ee7629\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec47153f64e04c21b33a63f900ee7629\u0022\u003EMOJO MATHERS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to move a motion without notice and without debate on the eighth anniversary of World Down Syndrome Day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022027d496a6d274342bbaee9deb49d4a70\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that motion to be put. Is there any objection? There is none. The motion can be put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022919c1f290f154ee4b3c3a02db2493380\u0022\u003EMOJO MATHERS\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That this House note that today is the eighth anniversary of World Down Syndrome Day, that it is the second time that the day has been acknowledged under the auspices of the United Nations, and that the House recognise the contribution of New Zealanders with Down syndrome to our country and communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c0250ab5d6514cf4bfccee61ac1a2c3e\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002286950a67d6324a3fab238df3bc41d536\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002255ad6dc1e70e42188f8cfbcfbe9a761e\u0022\u003EEconomic Growth\u2014GDP Growth for December 2012 Quarter and Unemployment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00225e0e63ed7dc046a9b9b39d786b6325d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e0e63ed7dc046a9b9b39d786b6325d0\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he received on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022c96739913bea4bcdb024ce07e4f57202\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c96739913bea4bcdb024ce07e4f57202\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Acting Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Today Statistics New Zealand has released the gross domestic product data for the December 2012 quarter. It shows that the New Zealand economy grew 1.5 percent in the quarter\u2014the highest quarterly growth since December 2009 and above market expectations. Annual growth was 3 percent year on year. The last time this was higher was before the global financial crisis and before the domestic recession that preceded that crisis. This is a reasonably encouraging result, particularly when New Zealand\u2019s 3 percent growth in 2012 is compared with other countries: 1.6 percent in the US, 1.1 percent in Canada, 0.4 percent in Japan, 0.3 percent in the UK, and negative 0.9 percent in the euro area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6c3e9c91925457daf5711614bbc39c8\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What are the main drivers of GDP growth in the December quarter? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022693e52ad00dc464ab0307d6aa5d564db\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Statistics New Zealand reports broad growth, with 15 of the 16 measured industries growing in the December quarter. The main drivers of growth in the December quarter were forestry, which grew 9 percent, the largest increase since 1999; retail accommodation and restaurants, up 2.3 percent, driven by retail activity; wholesale trade, up 2.1 percent, driven by equipment and machinery sales; and construction activity, up 1.8 percent, which was the fifth consecutive quarterly increase. Manufacturing activity in the December quarter was up 2.7 percent year on year, but down 0.5 percent in the quarter, and that was mainly due to a fall in oil production. Household consumption increased 1.6 percent, and exports increased 2.1 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f27075176ad84b198671cbba290eae1d\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What is the outlook for New Zealand\u2019s economic growth, and how does that compare with other developed countries? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022172125d17b9f46d9b0b289189ae4b86e\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Treasury and the Reserve Bank forecast that New Zealand\u2019s economy can expect growth of 2 to 3 percent per year over the next 4 years. This is in spite of the headwinds of ongoing uncertainty in the world economy, an elevated exchange rate, deleveraging in the household and Government sectors, and, of course, this year\u2019s drought. New Zealand\u2019s forecast growth is higher than consensus forecasts for the eurozone, Japan, the United Kingdom, and Canada. It is in line with forecast growth in the United States of America and slightly below that of Australia. There remains work to do, but this shows that New Zealand is broadly heading in the right economic direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225264763040cb485f945b4bad464c0a9b\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What are the risks to growth in the next few years, and what steps is the Government taking to manage these risks? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280e9b6a48742487da913da1ce9e92326\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Although the world economy is showing some positive signs, recent events in Europe and questions about the process of unwinding central bank balance sheets shows that some uncertainty does remain. That is why the Government has focused on developing its Business Growth Agenda, a comprehensive plan for building a productive and competitive economy and encouraging business investment and growth, and also raising national savings by getting back into surplus, and developing new financial stability tools, which include the macro-prudential framework. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec76157b2178404883f6981a45f44041\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Minister claiming the economy is performing well, given that 23,000 people lost their jobs and 33,000 people left the workforce in the very same December quarter that he has been referring to? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209703fb1cdb742dbb1df910ff1220bbe\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: It is worth pointing out to the member that, actually, in the 2 years to December, job growth in the quarterly employment survey was 54,000 jobs. I appreciate that, you know, we still have not got a perfect economy, but if the member wants to criticise the Government for achieving 1.5 percent growth in one quarter, I say make him keep doing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226db8dcb2d43b4afd85c64a5110c12e96\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Before he begins crowing about the temporary state of the economy, will he tell the hundreds who queued outside a South Auckland factory 2 weeks ago, at Carter Holt Harvey\u2019s Pakuranga factory, when they will get a job?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228371dcdcc655479487ff1e126aaa78d0\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think anybody has been crowing in this House recently, except the right honourable member, but the reality of it is that the New Zealand economy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6f433cf230d400693e5cd499d73853d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. What on earth could that opening sentence have to do with an answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d05d609de8ba47108fde3d1016e8496f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was a very political question. I want to hear the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b9fa050e1a74e219850891588b197bd\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: This is a political place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2f14b8446f24662870db06d48a013da\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is absolutely right. Could the Minister please complete the answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022892202d6e4084a2ba0a1b8e7053cf71e\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. We were listening to your response. We were having trouble hearing it because of the assistance you were getting from the Associate Minister of Finance and the Leader of the House. I do not know whether there is something wrong with the sound system, but, Mr Speaker, while you were ruling, you were being overcalled by those two Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6fc63346b3e44e19b1d8b83872198ef\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I did not hear a huge amount of interjection, but I fully accept there was some interjection. It goes to prove that interjection from either side of the House when I am making a comment to any member will lead to disorder. Would the Minister please now answer the question that was raised by the Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d5e1a24aadc4751939a621bc5df11e9\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I was pointing out to the member that the only one describing anything as crowing was the member himself. In terms of the job market, we certainly accept that the job market remains challenging. Although there has been job growth, it is not enough to actually meet the needs of all New Zealanders. That is why the Business Growth Agenda is very, very important in terms of encouraging opportunities for investment in the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290810b37bbc445c68ae5ed3ef72e4fad\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c11d328b1fc6450f9022c77e8d8bf682\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, there are very strong signs that it is working relative to the rest of the world. If the member would like me to run through again GDP growth relative to the rest of the world for his benefit, I would be happy to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022306fe464157b4bd08534ba94452d3ce5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister explain to the country why foreigners are coming here in their thousands on work permits, when a record number of young people who are New Zealanders cannot get a job in their own country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022768626acd4984d7bb399697789790e68\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I find both of the legs of the question from the member actually factually incorrect. The first leg of the question says that record numbers are coming to New Zealand. Well, that is obviously not correct when you look at the migration statistics\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a7c2c7584c546debc6381ce2c18a48c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This Minister was asked a straightforward question. The record numbers claim was to do with the record numbers of youth out of work, and that is a fact. So would you ask him now to address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288f0bb878a174f8faf0ea0d3cf1a1796\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister rose and straight away said he did not accept the question that was put by the member, and that is a perfectly satisfactory answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022150b626ae3d747d7a1100e10a41aedf5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014he claimed that I said that there were record numbers of foreigners coming in on work permits. I did not say that. The Hansard will prove that. Now make him answer the question, as you are required to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8b33a6544324f91a852ac3a8977e561\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member said that there were foreigners coming in in their thousands. The Minister satisfactorily addressed that question by disputing that. He is quite entitled to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c5b8f09a8fe402e9b74a7d37e79d976\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Will he answer the question, then? Because he has not answered it yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221661dba9e3754218bcaef66c5328c8de\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: He did answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd3992724cd043ddbe6fb264e66d67de\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, he did not. I raised a point of order on him, he stopped\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b195fd3859e048dfa55a685f74816b6a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And I ruled that the question had been answered. The Minister said he just did not accept the supposition in the member\u2019s question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203125eb91e8c428e8bc90980796c7578\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. With respect, if he gets up and he claims I made a statement that I did not make, and the Hansard will show it, how then can you avoid making him answer the question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8b78ebec0dc4288995f0c133e690fae\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Because I have told the member that I am satisfied that the member answered the question by saying he did not accept the suppositions that were raised by the member in asking the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002291b804f80bf5495d85b494d63dc28299\u0022\u003EGovernment Financial Position\u2014Current Account Deficit\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00228c6dca5efb474e4d945a288836b5b220\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c6dca5efb474e4d945a288836b5b220\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with Westpac economist Nathan Penny that the increase in the annual current account deficit to $10.5 billion, 5 percent of GDP, is a \u201Cworrying symptom of New Zealand\u2019s two-speed economy and re-emerging imbalances\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022f551d8fb8bf045cdb6ae2f6ef9b912e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f551d8fb8bf045cdb6ae2f6ef9b912e6\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Acting Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E A range of views have been expressed on yesterday\u2019s results, and not all the Minister would agree with. The Minister would agree with Mr Penny, who also said that the economy is clearly improving and \u201Chousehold spending and business confidence are on the up.\u201D But if Mr Penny is concerned about the current account deficit now, then he must have been apoplectic about it when the current account deficit averaged over 8 percent under the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f8a4c99000343ff9ded2024625ea501\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: If 30 percent of Mighty River Power shares being sold go offshore, will this have a further negative effect on New Zealand\u2019s current account deficit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d22ed565cd4e4178b25cb8e4038f4892\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: In terms of the first part of his question, there is no indication that that is the case at all beyond Mr Cosgrove actually asserting it yesterday, and we generally do not take advice from Mr Cosgrove in these matters. But in terms of the member\u2019s question with regard to investment and investment income, it all depends on the quality of that investment income. I would point out to the member that in the balance of payments yesterday, if you look at the investment flows, there were two main influences: New Zealanders were earning record amounts from their investments offshore, which I think the member would argue was a good thing; also those that are foreign investors investing in New Zealand invested something like 60 percent of their earnings back in the country, which is also a good thing. The third thing is, to point it out to the member, the actual investment balances\u2014yes, they were affected by Government borrowing, and that is why the Government is very, very focused on getting back into surplus, which is something that his colleagues on the Opposition side do not seem to understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212860d24feed4126b020d0eee57a5b5c\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: How can he credibly claim that his Government has rebalanced the economy, which was its stated objective, when there is double-digit housing inflation in Auckland, persistently high unemployment, and a large current account deficit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f4de414029748a9a93f1b0906ca18a8\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would have a look at the GDP statistics today if I was the member, which showed broad-based growth across the New Zealand economy in 15 of the 16 categories measured. The 16th was manufacturing. If you take oil and gas out of that, manufacturing was also positive over the quarter and over the year. In fact, the oil and gas one is the one, of course, that there is only one party in this House, or perhaps also the parties that work alongside\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223990dc86a06249b694f83bff0b10a959\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is not a necessary part of the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa5e81558a7d43acafcf77b70733c2fe\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he downplay the importance of his failure to rebalance the economy, when it is not just the Westpac economists but also the BNZ economist Doug Steel who said that yesterday\u2019s current account numbers are \u201Cpart of the slippery slope that we think the external accounts are on,\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274987ba6a55f4da5bf856dd4235111ae\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: It is just, you know, incredulous being lectured by that member, because from 2005 to 2008 the balance of payments deficit was 8 percent of GDP on average for the entire 3 years, so this Government is rebalancing the economy. But the mess we were left with\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8b345b4c0ae461fa42a28381d9fcfcf\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That surely cannot be within the Standing Orders\u2014to get up, make no attempt to address the question, and then start hammering on about some other party\u2019s record, which he is not responsible for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbf50576e0db4d5fb773653cf081011e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And it is certainly not desirable for the Minister to start with such a personal attack. It is a political contest, but it would be helpful if Ministers would, frankly, just answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221cd83c3a942745fbb1d69593a22a6532\u0022\u003EYouth Employment\u2014Youth Minimum Wage\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u002261c3982facd64a409fc0c89a892afa5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261c3982facd64a409fc0c89a892afa5f\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: What action is the Government taking to improve work opportunities for young people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa02ac16eb2e409a8579d71292fc56f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa02ac16eb2e409a8579d71292fc56f0\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The passage of the Minimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill today will, from 1 May, create a wage for 16 to 19-year-olds entering the workforce, coming off a benefit, or undertaking training. Young people who do not successfully move into work or who are unemployed for long periods face a real risk of long-term unemployment. The starting-out wage will provide an incentive for employers to help give young people a foot in the door and start building their skills and experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b01b9f7af9354290a0592736efdbd283\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: How have young people been affected by the recession and current wage settings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ed4595addd34adb863458fe595eff2a\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Young people have been more negatively affected\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206e595ac2e2d4995803da10124b01b0c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022491de4cae1e8472ea4b7de6a9682b5d3\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Young people have been more negatively affected in employment terms by the recession than older workers. The minimum wage settings of the Labour Government did not help. The new entrants wage it established is estimated to have cost up to 9,000 jobs and is currently being used by only 2 percent of employers. This Government wants New Zealanders who are able to work to do so. The starting-out wage will help set young people up for a lifetime of meaningful employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229f161f8fa0414622809fe9ea866fddea\u0022\u003ESolid Energy\u2014Financial Position and Accountability\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00227138fd302b644cbab03673fb291532ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227138fd302b644cbab03673fb291532ed\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for State Owned Enterprises: Does he stand by all statements he and his Ministerial colleagues have made regarding State-owned enterprises?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0d567d243fa4e8da2c634b9db554e12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0d567d243fa4e8da2c634b9db554e12\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for State Owned Enterprises: Within the context they were made the Minister stands by all his statements. In regard to the likely hundreds of statements made by 20-plus ministerial colleagues in relation to all State-owned enterprises over 5 years, that is just a little bit difficult to check out in 3 hours\u2019 prep time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022103d14d331434e6dbda5c9853d4c8905\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Prime Minister that an inquiry into Solid Energy will not achieve anything even though $389 million of taxpayers\u2019 money is in jeopardy and over 400 miners and associated staff have lost their jobs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222d3d453e2894789a533163b1239f0d1\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the Minister agrees with the Prime Minister. The issues that Solid Energy has had in regard to its business over the last couple of years are very well traversed and there are some excellent articles in the media the member might like to read to assist with that. The focus of the Government is on working through the situation with the Solid Energy board and management to maximise the outcome for the company.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299af3fff56c14a7e92ffda4f8e910df5\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: In the absence of an inquiry into the near collapse of Solid Energy, where hundreds of miners and associated staff have lost their livelihoods, where $389 million worth of taxpayers\u2019 money is in jeopardy, and where he did nothing to stop this from happening, how does he expect the public to have confidence in him as Minister for State Owned Enterprises when under his watch an export award - winning company has been driven into the ground?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c6d87a659874c26954befae47f27e49\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate that that was a very politically loaded question from the member, but the answer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df0be389506b4d95979cab5bc5225733\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: It was a factual question; just answer it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df0a65a6b779407282a96a2cd56189c7\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is not a factual question, actually, but the answer in terms of the position of the Minister for State Owned Enterprises, as the member knows, is that the responsibility for the investment decisions made by the company fall to the board and management, and the responsibility for coal prices actually falls to the world market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bb5a5a20cf4489692dd753fd4f27df8\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: In the absence of any inquiry into the near collapse of Solid Energy, where hundreds of miners and associated staff have lost their livelihoods and $389 million worth of taxpayers\u2019 money is in jeopardy, and where, again, he did nothing to stop this happening, how does he expect the public to have confidence in his ability to restore Solid Energy to the export award - winning company it once was under the previous Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022689963643a6a442382284f145e8a2e11\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I suspect Mr Cosgrove is claiming responsibility for world coal prices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022224a5bcb77b248618e675e1b30dd8737\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister support the National Party members who blocked an inquiry into Solid Energy; and how can employees have any confidence in their future if the Government refuses to investigate what has gone wrong inside the company in the last few years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e73eefc3effe46feb7a64130f64c21df\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I am reasonably new here, but I understand select committees are in charge of their own destiny. The member and his colleague are on that select committee. I take it they were unable to persuade their colleagues of the merits of an inquiry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022456581adfbda49ad8706595965430e5c\u0022\u003EImmigration, Parent Category\u2014Allocation of Visas\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u0022601d64a1aff747299578f8778794922a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022601d64a1aff747299578f8778794922a\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: Does he stand by his statements made in Question Time on 12 March 2013?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022951587c02f184457a20bc4d3c9f664aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022951587c02f184457a20bc4d3c9f664aa\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5e96e53f0fb46cf9823ae7083b7cbed\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister assert \u201CThis Government is colour-blind and not designed to favour any nationality over another.\u201D, when in the year ending June 2012 parents admitted from China were more than 120 percent of skilled immigrants from China, while parent immigration from other countries did not exceed 24 percent of skilled immigrants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022475d4399e00444babb9dfc9706544a14\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: I stand by the answer to that question, which is that every single one of the residents who qualified under the parent category did so because they met the criteria. But in respect of the comparison between the proportion of those accepted in a year under the parent category relative to the same countries\u2019 skilled migrants, I should point out that the parent category applicants generally come at least 5 years after their children are accepted under the skilled migrant category, and the comparison is completely flawed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226548658066744f4cbebe49245158ce15\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: In view of the Government\u2019s 2012 policy change designed to rebalance the parent category, will the Minister now give an assurance that parent category numbers from China will not exceed the number of skilled immigrants from China in the current year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9f5d7576290442db9f50f716275d534\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I reiterate the assurance that I gave last week, which is that everybody who comes in under that category will do so because they meet the criteria. But I note that in the 8 months since those new criteria have taken effect, the proportion of Chinese parent category visas that have been approved has nearly halved and that the proportion of approvals from other countries has gone up. That is as a consequence of the changed criteria.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a01623166f3480681b372e0a5a3bc92\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: If, as the Minister says, \u201Clast year we made changes to give priority to migrants who can make a real contribution\u201D, will he adopt the New Zealand First policy to cap parent category migrants from each country to 20 percent of the skilled migrants from that country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022860cff1e42634081b89c30b2035b7299\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: No, I will not give that assurance. I note for the benefit of the colleague sitting beside the member, Le\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor, who tweeted during last week\u2019s question time, \u201CWhy is National giving priority to Chinese over Pacific Islanders?\u201D, that the country with the highest proportion of parent category visas related to skilled migrant visas is Samoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002220ef79fd742549f894f04d7537f8981b\u0022\u003EPublic Transport, Auckland\u2014City Rail Link\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0bb81dc1ba34721aa0f7085c1f2a72b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0bb81dc1ba34721aa0f7085c1f2a72b\u0022\u003EJULIE ANNE GENTER (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Has he read the City Centre Future Access Study which found that, of the options for Auckland CBD\u2019s transport infrastructure, the City Rail Link \u201Chas the highest road network speeds within the City Centre\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002259b8a2bb95c2498ca4bed00c411ec887\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259b8a2bb95c2498ca4bed00c411ec887\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I have, but I am not sure that the member has correctly interpreted this research. The city rail loop would not be part of the road network. From a road safety perspective, I would ask that she please not drive her car along railway lines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276c8aa4aa7ef47dd9391f4e5c1a87949\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Given his focus on reducing travel time for New Zealand motorists, why is his Government blocking progress on the city rail link, which will reduce rail journey times by as much as 60 percent and result in faster travel times for hundreds of thousands of Auckland motorists?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022331cdf2ef0c74202b2678ca692f2cdc1\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: We are not blocking progress on the rail loop. We are in discussions with Auckland Transport and Auckland Council on what are the best options for them moving forward. What we do know is that even if the rail loop were to be built, by 2030 the congestion situation in Auckland would be no better than it is now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022541e3e69aa1e402a8d278814c323b549\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Is he denying that building the city rail link would give much better transport options to tens of thousands of Aucklanders in 2030?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f140c8baed314b5198d769930e35ffcb\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1cc3285dc9747f5b7b9e7b85e2a7613\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Government provide adequate transport options for the 100,000 people who will be commuting to Auckland\u2019s central business district every weekday by 2021 if he continues to say no to the city rail link, which will move the most people the fastest with the least congestion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1a89bcab5cc4bd882fdaee5818c2a66\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Even if the city rail loop were in place right now, it would have minimal effect on the total number of journeys into the city by cars by 2021. The reality is that either way, you are looking at an increased number of cars coming into the central city, so simply saying \u201CLet\u2019s build this $2.4 billion rail loop to overcome a problem.\u201D is not recognising what the problem is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224461750e8fdb453f9102d715758f2970\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table this graph from Auckland Transport, showing that the number of people travelling by car entering Auckland central business district from 2001 to 2012 reduced significantly, by 20 percent, while the number coming by public transport increased by 50 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b508e1db1c6e46fc84e72bcb6f34261b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What is the source of the document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b5ae999d60546b199ee1c196299750e\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: This is data provided by Auckland Transport to myself. I do not believe it is publicly available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ed4ee54855c46f886a09565343af6d9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that. Is there any objection? There is not. It can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b16e4db34a8c4ca5a15020541f497752\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Does he disagree with the recommendation of the Government-commissioned Enright report on New Zealand\u2019s competitiveness, which stated that the Auckland rail link must be the priority to improve productivity; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cef1b226c1684e28941a905509061657\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I neither agree nor disagree. What we are doing at the moment is trying to work out whether or not that rail loop should progress, and, secondly, if it were to, what would be the optimal time for it to progress. I would point that, counter to what the member has just said about the reduced number of journeys into the city in 2021 should that rail loop go ahead, my information suggests it would be around about a 1,600 reduction\u2014not the numbers the member is claiming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8a5519016a9490f9315efe9f57647a7\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: How many more reports does he need to conclude that the city rail link is necessary, given that we have had the Enright report, the City Centre Future Access Study, and the 2010 Auckland city rail link business case, before he will get on board with this project that the people of Auckland and the businesses of Auckland want?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022542a2ce8d5834ef9b6c63fa6ff359cf6\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: There is the problem, you see. Here is the report that the member speaks to\u2014a very large volume. It is accompanied by many other large volumes, and they do not, either individually or collectively, reach the conclusions she claims. This is a $2.4 billion project, in today\u2019s terms, for a relatively short piece of rail for very modest gains.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d509a96bae5462c94226ca8b18f4842\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table this page from the Enright report, which states that the Auckland city rail link should be a priority for lifting productivity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1f40610968a43fdba82c89738458961\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Enright report available to members?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211a92d300c2643bba6743bf3ff5b3f75\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219725d0e39a94ea9b4034aa89c3c3523\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is. Then it will not be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002248631f2b4881476e91306e5a1cf09523\u0022\u003EInformation and Communications Technology Sector\u2014Jobs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u002236f8bc2b15b6444d8356c4f1efff4c93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236f8bc2b15b6444d8356c4f1efff4c93\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Development: What contribution, if any, will the ICT sector make to the Government\u2019s stated 2011 Budget commitment to 170,000 net new jobs being created by 2015?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3b1343857da4940ae79a62dd2eac3e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3b1343857da4940ae79a62dd2eac3e0\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E According to projections released by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment\u2014and it is important to point out that these are never exact numbers, because you are asking for individual occupational groups\u2014the computing professionals\u2019 sector is expected to grow by 8,000 in the 2010-15 period, an annual growth rate of 4.4 percent, the highest of any profession. My hope is that that growth will be larger, based on the anecdotal experience of a lot of people looking for information and communications technology professionals at the moment. Orion Health, which recently created 100 new jobs, has said it is a very tight market, and that if it could find more people, it would mean more development. It said that if it cannot find the people, \u201Cwe will have no choice but to hire people elsewhere.\u201D The Government recognises the potential the information and communications technology sector has to grow the New Zealand economy, which is why we are investing significant additional sums in tertiary courses in science and engineering over the next 4 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6b568c5a45f417192699190dcfcbe73\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that Telecom has said it will soon announce job cuts \u201Cwell into the hundreds\u201D, with industry indications as high as 1,500, making it the largest loss of jobs from a single New Zealand company in recent decades, at the very least, and what has he or his ministry done to mitigate the impact on the information and communications technology workforce of these extraordinary job losses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f547274c4c2412b9dce99ef0e5f6c3e\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware, in general terms, of Telecom\u2019s plan in terms of its job changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a609c692d112414eaad0d73a9b0b6f2d\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: What are you doing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c56b6a2e068c483b9d94447088fe5444\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am actually very confident for the sector, because the information and communications technology sector is probably the sector with the highest demand that is unmet for skilled information and communications technology workers from around the country. For example, there was an article in the New Zealand Herald as recently as last Friday, talking about the fact that there was one website showing 1,300 information and communications technology vacancies in Auckland alone, with pay rates of up to $1,500 a day. So I am confident that if the numbers the member talks about\u2014and I have no awareness of those numbers\u2014are true, those people will be very quickly snapped up in the information and communications technology sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e391ac057adc423d96ae77b6823f3c13\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Given that it was he who drove through the legislation to separate Telecom in 2011 to build his ultra-fast broadband network, and that it has been signalled that Telecom would need to shed staff to be competitive, where is his industry plan for job growth in this sector, and just how many jobs will it create?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5b40ad832c344dfaba6d5fc42fb3abd\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it may come as a surprise to the member that, generally, Government strategies are not very good at creating jobs. But if it helps the member, can I say to the member in terms of the information and communications technology sector, there was a very helpful release just 2 days ago from Statistics New Zealand, which points out how rapidly and quickly the information and communications technology sector in this country is growing\u2014now up to $23 billion worth of economic activity. Again, the member may wring her hands, but I am confident for the information and communications technology sector in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a8d31efe0604003af56a7ef1608c062\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Does he regard Telecom\u2019s impending massive job losses as a matter for Government intervention; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c8a58a611a84d2d8885bce5bf66751a\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: It is an interesting question. I am not quite sure what the member would seek the Government do\u2014ring Telecom up and stop it changing its work programme? Obviously, there is concern in an economy when people have to lose their jobs, but the reality is that that happens every year. Roughly 250,000 jobs are created and lost every year in the New Zealand economy. The interesting thing is that the left wing thinks you can stop the world all the time and halt everything in place; the centre-right understands it is about encouraging investment opportunities. Truly, the information and communications technology sector is one of those sectors that is growing very well and will quickly absorb whatever available people there are as a result of the Telecom changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022018c9825b8ef4232b9a608021a6ec309\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that his own ministry, embarrassed by the lack of a credible economic agenda by the Government, is attempting to stage a late intervention in the Telecom situation, in order to dampen the effects of his Government\u2019s failed economic policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227af61d143a40447e86e7de35571f574c\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not explicitly aware of that. What I can tell the member, though, is that my office has spoken to the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment asking whether there is a way of facilitating the opportunities. The reality is that I go around the country all the time, talking to information and communications technology companies that cannot get enough staff. So I actually said to the ministry that there was an opportunity for it to get together with Telecom and those companies and see whether it can arrange those people to have the opportunity to look into new jobs. I think that is a good thing, and that is actually something this Government should be encouraged to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022178689bdad4f42b8bf6f4c35c27f2d4d\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Is it true that staff from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment have approached Telecom offering help with recruitment agencies; is that not the job of Work and Income, and should not he, as the Minister, be instructing his own ministry to develop an industry plan for the information and communications technology sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b160b15b94fd4226b7f344637fc533ac\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: A very straightforward point is that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment has quite possibly approached Telecom, because I made an inquiry from my office, to see whether there was any way it could assist to match some of the people who may not be staying at Telecom to any jobs around the country that the organisation is aware of. I think that is an excellent thing, if it is possible, but, again the member is barking up the wrong tree here. The information and communications technology sector has massive vacancies and a massive demand for jobs. If the ministry can facilitate the information between those people working for Telecom and those with other companies, I think that that is a wonderful thing. I thank the member for the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208359f4479b24220806ff7c484f1bb12\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table two documents. The first is a document from the Parliamentary Library, which says that\u2014it is a report on job losses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dbe35deb1e94951aac6d5c2350e4179\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is it a publication?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dba3f1471e2340ebb7b9a65a226c87b4\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: It is a publication of job\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9ff2a570da949b8b729344659d85b69\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Then it is available to the members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022492d55f64a4c4a319b7d9ec4e8ecf06d\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no\u2014it is not a publication. It is an analysis\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223427bf5b5830425093ede29e45b994c5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And it was done for the member? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fea1d30d47914fae891e60b79292c19d\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014done for the member\u2014which has been unable to find any job losses over 1,000 in any New Zealand company. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fabe4287c48849b1be19d4c84c57b84c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that Parliamentary Library document. Is there any objection? There is none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241e33c0ada804eb0abd7f49f5058dffa\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: The second document is the transcript from the financial review of the Ministry of Economic Development in December 2012 in which the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faff20a36ae7455d9da4e52ee24d55cd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is definitely something that is available to all members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eda69aa905614de98899b5c58c0530d9\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: It may be available to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b109c5db936545a982a1106dd5ab6074\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Then it is available to all members. They do not need it to fulfil their information. It is on the website, I am advised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220a47ed0a90f643c79cb671c79389b559\u0022\u003ETourism Promotion\u2014Hobbit Campaign\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u0022f212a5dab69645cdb84462a0d598cabf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f212a5dab69645cdb84462a0d598cabf\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Tourism: What is Tourism New Zealand doing to promote New Zealand as the first Hobbit movie is released on DVD?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u002279d03cc4d9c24773a6a368067ea99ca8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279d03cc4d9c24773a6a368067ea99ca8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS TREMAIN (Associate Minister of Tourism)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Tourism: The first Hobbit DVD was released yesterday in North America and is soon to be released worldwide. The DVD includes a 6-minute promotional video with endorsements of New Zealand by The Hobbit\u2019s stars and sweeping shots of New Zealand landscapes and film locations. Tourism New Zealand is promoting the feature through its website, Facebook, and YouTube channels to reach as many potential travellers as possible and to back its \u201C100% Middle-earth, 100% Pure New Zealand\u201D campaign. This is great news. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225213959db6a4828a32248a32c5ef5f2\u0022\u003EDr Jian Yang\u003C/span\u003E: What will be the benefits to New Zealand of the promotional video?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bf8f0d7e3674940bbae60070ad528c5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: The video will give New Zealand immense exposure, going into millions of homes around the world. This will build on the impact of the movies, which we are already seeing. In January, preference for a New Zealand holiday was up from 43 percent to 52 percent in the USA. Visitors from the US were up 16 percent on January last year, and visits from Japan were up 10 percent. This is why during negotiations with Warner Bros the Government sought for the promotional video to be included in the DVD, so that we could maximise the ongoing opportunity to attract more visitors to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf1a3d7ca30d4410a9722afc1b69a172\u0022\u003EDr Jian Yang\u003C/span\u003E: What other ongoing activities is Tourism New Zealand doing to leverage The Hobbit movies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fca5e5c152b04d1f987bdf5bc7776518\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Tourism New Zealand has launched the \u201C100% Middle-earth, 100% Pure New Zealand\u201D campaign in Australia, Japan, Korea, Germany, the United Kingdom, the United States, and China. Eight out of 10 people who were actively considering New Zealand as a destination say they are more interested in travelling here after seeing these advertisements. It was voted the world\u2019s leading destination marketing campaign at the 2012 World Travel Awards, highlighting the great success of the campaign and the importance of The Hobbit movies to our tourism industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022773af28790174d6ab613e5918a4ea293\u0022\u003EFamilies Commission\u2014Expenditure\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022 data-id=\u00225e875604692842bda2f91b34b7612e60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e875604692842bda2f91b34b7612e60\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: Is she satisfied with the spending decisions made by the Families Commission in the last three financial years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022426a17567f5244d5beb394cdb9b9103f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022426a17567f5244d5beb394cdb9b9103f\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS (Associate Minister for Social Development) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for Social Development: I am reserving judgment at this stage because Audit New Zealand is currently undertaking a review. There are some concerns, and I share them. That is why they have written to the Minister and asked for the auditors to report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f196006b904742db80d280e06d43a217\u0022\u003EDr Rajen Prasad\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe it is acceptable that the Families Commission spent almost the equivalent amount on one contractor in the last financial year to that which was spent on the entire White Ribbon campaign against family violence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf1a5420d6a14ee8a175bbbfc7b3cd82\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: I am reserving my judgment in respect of that particular matter. The report will be due, hopefully, shortly. It will be made publicly available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa7d9157a87846cda118046b15980cc8\u0022\u003EDr Rajen Prasad\u003C/span\u003E: What is the connection between the departure of the chief executive and the chief commissioner and the excessive expenditure unearthed at the select committee yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d68d7ffc9899486e9833639efdde4edb\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: As I am answering on behalf of the Minister, I do not have that information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224157a1c8ce7a431ebeebbbfdba50f36e\u0022\u003EDr Rajen Prasad\u003C/span\u003E: In the light of the Auditor-General being asked to review the commission\u2019s sensitive expenditures policy, what action will she be taking to ensure appropriate use of taxpayer funding within the Families Commission?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cf31dd0fe92483db6994a03633083b1\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: Appropriate use of taxpayers\u2019 money is always a concern for any Minister, and particularly for the Minister for Social Development. We look forward to the publication of that report, we are happy to release it publicly, and I am sure that decisions will be made as a result of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf5fe27d8c8543eea58a9da95fc28693\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: If she is so willing to express dissatisfaction with the Families Commission\u2019s use of contractors, will she likewise investigate her own department, which spent, for instance, more than $350,000 on consultants for the core Government business of managing the green paper process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed7c55b8255245eb83f6488208a75455\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: Dissatisfaction has not been expressed. Judgment has been reserved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022446ed798f76f46809fd9890943989192\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation Corporation\u2014Customer Service Training\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8fc7dac3fc642f6ac3c1038f7956f58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8fc7dac3fc642f6ac3c1038f7956f58\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for ACC: What is ACC doing to ensure that frontline staff are adequately trained to provide excellent customer service?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002243bf02fb3f1d46b49ddb6ff404d8185d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243bf02fb3f1d46b49ddb6ff404d8185d\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E In addition to current staff training to improve the customer experience, ACC is developing an ACC Academy with independent tertiary providers to strengthen the focus on managing client relationships in the best possible way. ACC also has privacy awareness training that is now compulsory for all staff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d6b83f181024b70bcbda0afc21cc054\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: Does ACC have any other programmes in place to ensure a positive client experience?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be90a44303ee4c2abd71c50753cd76ec\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, ACC is piloting an extended 12-month induction programme for case managers. An induction programme for new managers is expected to roll out later this year. ACC also has modular training on core competency areas, such as understanding the legislation, and the rights of clients.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224504c017269948df82efc5702b6c7f9e\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Defence Force\u2014Health and Safety and Non-combat Deaths\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022fecacc220c524955a38687cfa2541bd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fecacc220c524955a38687cfa2541bd8\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Defence: Will he rule out \u201Csystemic health and safety issues throughout the Defence Force\u201D being a cause of Defence Force fatalities, in light of revelations surrounding the non-combat deaths of Defence personnel over the last three years; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u00226ede0fbccc0d47938fe32b190d1f8592\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ede0fbccc0d47938fe32b190d1f8592\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E I am not ruling such issues in, and I am not ruling them out. What I can say is that there is an extensive programme of health and safety work that has been under way for some time. I also note that the final court of inquiry report and recommendations relating to the Private Ross tragedy are yet to be released.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022806e7593fe964d6689968bd90f882069\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Do the interim findings of the court of inquiry into the tragic death of Private Michael Ross, which the Minister has been briefed on, suggest that there was not just one error but a whole catalogue of errors and mistakes that contributed to Michael Ross\u2019 death, and that the loss of life of Michael Ross was entirely avoidable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275481cd3ff6841c28447d67c997a54e4\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: I want to acknowledge first that this was a very real tragedy, and there will be very hard lessons to be learnt from this. The gist of the report in the Sunday Star-Times is indeed correct, and it looks like there were multiple safety failings in what is a very tragic case. My condolences go to the family. I think we will find that there have been major errors that need to be corrected, so that this can never happen again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248e4bb9384664fbdb0508982e7855905\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: How does he explain the catalogue of errors that he has been advised on that led to Private Michael Ross\u2019 death, which included, first of all, the boat he was travelling in not being inflated so that he was thrown out of it; secondly, its engine breaking down, so they could not turn round to pick him up; thirdly, the fact that the gas canister that would have inflated his life jacket was empty and had not been checked; fourthly, the fact that the life jacket was in fact a navy jacket, and not suitable for the equipment that army personnel hold; fifthly, the fact that the safety boat was not accompanying the boat that Private Ross was travelling in; and, sixthly, when it finally turned up, it did not have the complement of crew necessary to actually provide any assistance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022062c589cb90c49199ff3c5ed6d2a4bf3\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: I am not going to deny any of those facts, but what I am going to say is that I am awaiting the final court of inquiry recommendations, which will be acted on. I also want to say that the police have investigated this. There is a separate Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment investigation, which has the power to lay charges, and a military police investigation. This is a very serious matter, which has to be taken seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d7ebc661b06448eb22053f2b7f203bc\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister recall the findings of the court of inquiry into the Iroquois crash on Anzac Day, which pointed out that the crew was neither adequately prepared nor trained; that there were deficiencies in the orders, management, and operational environment within which the air force was operating in at the time; and that these were key contributing factors in that tragedy? And what lessons have been learnt and what changes have been made in the 3 years that have elapsed since then? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022609c178d5169446a860ca48166dc1d40\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: All I can say about the Iroquois crash is that there were six key causes\u2014basically relating to culture, to oversight of orders, and to adherence to orders. One of the key things that was said in the report findings was that the genesis of that accident goes back 10 years to 2001, when changes were made in an attempt to make our operations more efficient and cost-effective. At the time, two layers of flying command and supervision, along with staff support, were removed from the organisation. That was in 2001. You wanted to know what has been done in the period since. This will take some time, but I am quite happy to relay the answer for the House if the member so wishes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cd7fc42dce34f11bb210e6de2e961c1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member wants\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ec41a3cd9574fea958ba46a4a2657ea\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223297543a6d424813bda91da3d0e5ed0a\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: I am asking\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c72bda978024cbfa01bec51bb84599f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! No. You are required only to answer one part of a supplementary question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ceb3e6056044537875cc2f35d27fbce\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Has it occurred to him that a culture where operational orders were not being followed and basic mistakes were being made might have been, in part at least, an outcome of the fact that at the time of Private Michael Ross\u2019 death, the morale in the Defence Force was the lowest ever on record, according to the Minister\u2019s own surveys; that there had been a massive loss of skilled and experienced people of over 1,000 Defence Force personnel that year; and that there was a situation where a very high level of attrition\u2014in fact, the highest in recent history\u2014meant that people were in a mind-set and lacked the training that then allowed that catalogue of errors to occur?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247b3d920d91f41bb8fe042c286d11b42\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: I completely reject those assertions and think it is pretty low that an absolute tragedy would be utilised by that member to try to make a political point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242dd906e7b4f4b49b7a52fb8ef779563\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That is a comment that is bound to cause disorder in the House. Michael Ross happened to have been a family friend, and I despise the Minister for making that sort of accusation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221d2864ac4ab41498dada7f1ed1d8841\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! It would be helpful if the Minister could address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260de38953bb54d089060b1233951e25c\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I have made my point that this tragedy has nothing to do with attrition and morale, and I will reassert my point that this member should not be attempting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0a026d54b5c4ee8b1ad0896f722dba0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is a sufficient answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a339f1d21f1a41a6a1f2af27158c87c7\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Is it satisfactory that Crib 19, on which Corporal Doug Hughes took his own life, was deployed when the warrant officer responsible for pre-deployment training said that they had not been adequately trained, that they had received 60 percent of the training that they had needed, and that, actually, one of the components that were missing from the training was identification of stress and management of stress? Why did the Minister allow that to happen, and what inquiry has he done into that fact?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242a345ada1774f6bb07f6d107d75f31e\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows that what he is asserting there is actually incorrect. The warrant officer\u2019s report that he refers to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf3fb90a03b748a398a37c9375dc78f0\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I want to replay a point of order from yesterday. You know that there is only one way of suggesting that members have breached privilege. To suggest that a member has said something in the House that they know is incorrect is a breach of privilege. It has long been ruled by Speakers that you cannot make an accusation that a member is doing that, as that member just did, and, actually, as members did yesterday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5212ea173c6415f817718b787b9790f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just say that we are dealing with what is a very sensitive issue. I am going to invite the member to ask his question again, because it has now passed by quite some time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c62355d0787047dc8f8d350030cf4537\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Is it satisfactory that Crib 19, on which Corporal Doug Hughes lost his life, was deployed when the warrant officer responsible for the pre-deployment training of that crib is on record as saying that the group was not adequately trained\u2014they had done 60 percent of the training\u2014but he had no option but to deploy them? Is it true that one of the components on which they had not received training in pre-deployment was the identification of stress and management of stress, which were obviously relevant to Corporal Hughes taking his own life? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022544ef0689c6f4879ab6780295d38b999\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00229e1842fe1e314fcc98baf0ce631a3332\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e1842fe1e314fcc98baf0ce631a3332\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 12, Dr Kennedy Graham. [Interruption] Order! I have called\u2014[Interruption] Order! I have called Dr Kennedy Graham for question No. 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d1f0639269f24def84058ab6ece4f0a1\u0022\u003EMinisters\u2014Confidence in Climate Change Issues and Justice Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u00229831a9d960194ab9a61282f956286e76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229831a9d960194ab9a61282f956286e76\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he have confidence in all his Ministers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00223a65e6ae914f4906b346668449a2cedf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a65e6ae914f4906b346668449a2cedf\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Prime Minister: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d02533ac16d74814b2a3cfb425b70805\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: Does he have confidence in the Minister for Climate Change Issues, Tim Groser, to do his climate change job when he is spending so much time and public funds travelling the world promoting his candidacy for a new job as head of the World Trade Organisation (WTO)? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022711c3332dfc74fcda7df26b6dfb17dc4\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The achievements of Mr Groser in that regard speak for themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb9e69fef052451c94cca71bcef873b5\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no, he\u2019ll speak about them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eda78213f1a44b5cbbaa075bd359006f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! It would be helpful if the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bd1c8b3cbf5439a90c5eda3bef3006c\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s never lost for words.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8beeecbf22e4769bdb19f7893799f90\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Some interjections are very good. It would be helpful now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216e0ec74290644ebb571b27e473798ed\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not lost for words; I am stunned by one of the best contributions he has ever made to a debate. Can I say that the record of the Hon Tim Groser as Minister speaks for itself. During the years 2000 to 2008 emissions from this country rose by 23 percent. In the last few years they have fallen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e8f676b2dd440ef94126e8884aee410\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am just checking whether it is appropriate for you as Speaker to say \u201Chear, hear\u201D to Grant Robertson\u2019s interjection like that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229144b3a5e7f543d0b2d7f58d70846f56\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And I did not do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6578ce2fd0a41a186b77df2d2bcb538\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document listing the 16 capitals Mr Groser has visited in the past 8 weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a26cde2d45d749ddbc4efb5fe915f2fd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table a document that lists where Minister Groser has been. Is there any objection? [Interruption] Order! Was there any objection? There appears to be no objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022405e6037646440b19dabcbe4a400caf4\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: Will he direct Mr Groser to find time before the end of his natural term in office to sit down and work out the greenhouse gas emissions reduction target for 2020 and a pathway to it, given that his almost continuous absence is holding up the process? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224593e4f4829a4ef9bea464cd76eeef30\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I am quite sure that Mr Groser, who is well-known for his capacity to engage in conversation, will be raising climate change issues with people in each of those 16 countries he visits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227da523c51ca6400d92398ef486e98a6a\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: When Mr Groser recently urged trade colleagues in Geneva to \u201Cnever underestimate the power of ideas\u201D, as part of his WTO candidacy, did he have in mind a vision of a world with a stable climate or a world where he gets the job he wants? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a30373925311468b933e679773cda9b8\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: If the House had the time, I would spend it conveying Mr Groser\u2019s visions on many matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bd63d30ebd54c67af5b37512e3eb74f\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: Is there a new visionary ministerial portfolio for job hunting given Mr Groser has taken to adding \u201Ccandidate for the position of World Trade Organization Director-General\u201D as part of his title on his press releases?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273886749df364639a037f320732bda38\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: The question line today simply confirms that the Greens do not want this country to progress in an economic sense, and see no value in trade liberalisation throughout the world. A party that preaches about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022609d7a6d12e443d28994ac3a860c3db8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234ee0dd17c594444924a6168c44a850d\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The point of my questioning was not an opportunity for the Minister to extol trade virtues and our trade interests. It is a question of focusing on climate change issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254a2624798654a379bf92d995f9a5dcf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the member to at some stage over the next 24 hours have a look at his question, which talked about Mr Groser talking to trade Ministers. It was a pretty political question. It certainly was not a tight question. It gave every opportunity for the Minister to respond as he did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282ab7302616043f88337d59b2742e5a1\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou. Does he have confidence in the Minister of Justice in appointing Dame Susan Devoy as Race Relations Commissioner, who has already courted controversy with her views that burkas are \u201Cdisconcerting\u201D and that Waitangi Day should be replaced with a new national holiday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f3c385eb73642f28afa6040a774ae55\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I have confidence in the Minister who was responsible for appointing a strong independent person to this important office. I think it is appropriate that whoever has that office does engage in a dialogue with New Zealanders about matters they are concerned about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022373e2ce9585243aa94a1a80bd4b56fe2\u0022\u003EParliamentary Service Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002221285abf6a654168b82330f15734f972\u0022\u003EMembership\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b30b2c3d8ebc44c6989e66078263e6ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b30b2c3d8ebc44c6989e66078263e6ca\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That, pursuant to sections 15(1)(d) and 17(2)(b) of the Parliamentary Service Act 2000, Louise Upston be appointed as a member of the Parliamentary Service Commission in place of Hon Michael Woodhouse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226643c706687145499461f3ae82bffb1a\u0022\u003ELocal Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b5205fce6ea147c78d422209276f9b83\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000227\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 20 March.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u00228cf0a46bf5f44fc8969cc3464f48164c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cf0a46bf5f44fc8969cc3464f48164c\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E I support the Local Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022faaf1e1b5a8247cb819cac771325aab6\u0022\u003ECrown Minerals (Permitting and Crown Land) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002274466dd68652457091dcf0bd22685bd6\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0811761420544419c19c2d93d32826e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0811761420544419c19c2d93d32826e\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Crown Minerals (Permitting and Crown Land) Bill be now read a second time. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the chair, Jonathan Young, and members of the Commerce Committee for their work in considering this complex piece of legislation. I also acknowledge the time submitters took to provide their views to the select committee. It is positive that the select committee had the opportunity to hear views about mining from so many perspectives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThis bill refreshes the Crown Minerals Act 1991 to support the Government\u2019s objective of growing the mineral sector whilst ensuring even greater levels of health and safety and environmental oversight. New Zealanders rightly demand high standards from the mining sector. This legislation is a key element in providing that assurance. This bill does not seek to replace existing legislation in relation to health and safety and environmental management; rather, it better integrates the functions of various regulatory processes to ensure health and safety and environmental considerations are embedded throughout the process. The majority of submitters agreed with the proposal to consider the health and safety and environmental capacity of permit applicants before permits are awarded. Processes to ensure these matters remain on the agenda for the life cycle of a permit, such as annual review meetings with permit holders and information-sharing provisions between regulators, were also endorsed. I am confident that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment will implement these changes in a way that does not result in undue delay in permit decisions or duplication of effort. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe report of the Royal Commission on the Pike River Coal Mine Tragedy was released while the bill was being considered by the select committee. The royal commission explicitly endorsed the proposals put forward in the review of the Crown Minerals Act, but it was clear that these needed to be strengthened. The bill as reported back incorporates further amendments that take account of the royal commission\u2019s report and submissions that were heard on this. These changes will ensure that health and safety becomes an integral part of the permitting process, without introducing undue costs or uncertainty. This bill represents the Government\u2019s response to two of the royal commission\u2019s recommendations. A comprehensive work programme on the other 14 recommendations is under way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EAs expected, the purpose statement generated a significant amount of interest throughout the committee\u2019s proceedings. The purpose statement neatly encapsulated the Government\u2019s desires for the sector. It intentionally promotes \u201Cprospecting for, exploration for, and mining of Crown owned minerals for the benefit of New Zealand,\u201D but recognises that any activity must be undertaken in accordance with \u201Cgood industry practice\u201D. Embedding such a balance into the purpose statement makes it clear that permitting decisions will consider health and safety matters as well as the potential economic return to the Crown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThis bill ensures the ongoing protection of schedule 4 land. This protection is enhanced by automatically including any land that meets the criteria for inclusion in schedule 4. Some concerns were raised that having Cabinet as the decision maker for the designation of high-value conservation land would erode the Minister of Conservation\u2019s role as steward of the conservation estate. This is not the case. It has always been a matter for Cabinet to add land into schedule 4. The reforms ensure that this will happen as a matter of course. There was some objection to the Minister of Energy and Resources having a role in determining whether to grant access to Crown conservation land for mining and the inclusion of economic criteria in the decision into whether to grant a land access agreement. The bill retains these proposals, but ensures that the role of the Minister of Energy and Resources is limited to the small number of mining operations that have the potential to generate a significant economic return. Economic considerations will also take account of any direct impacts on other businesses that might be affected by the mining project. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThis bill is part of a package of reforms that responds to the Waitangi Tribunal\u2019s report on the management of the petroleum resource. It introduces a requirement for permit holders to report annually on their engagement with iwi and hap\u016B. Some submissions suggested that this requirement does not go far enough and that it should spell out detailed expectations on how permit holders should engage and the consequences of doing so. I am of the view that it is a matter for permit holders and iwi to determine how to engage at a local level. Embedding such expectations into the legislation would be too limiting, given the diversity of iwi views on mining and their willingness to engage with permit holders. This requirement must be seen in the context of a broader range of reforms aimed at enhancing the relationships between permit holders, the Crown, and iwi. Of note is the intent that New Zealand Petroleum and Minerals will provide operational support to assist creating relationships at a local level in the interests of all parties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI am grateful to the submitters and the select committee, whose thorough consideration has served to improve this legislation. The bill as reported back reflects the Commerce Committee\u2019s agreement on the majority of amendments proposed and its response to issues raised by a wide range of submitters. It also includes a large number of technical amendments to improve the workability of the Act and bring it into line with modern drafting conventions. This bill is a key element in helping New Zealand realise its huge petroleum and mineral potential, while giving us the confidence that the regulatory system we have is robust. I am very pleased to commend the Crown Minerals (Permitting and Crown Land) Bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002202f55df610b84a9099950573549936ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202f55df610b84a9099950573549936ff\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to make a contribution on the second reading of the Crown Minerals (Permitting and Crown Land) Bill. When this bill was originally introduced, Labour said that it would support its referral to the Commerce Committee, but we made some very strong views known at the time about the issues that we disagreed with and that we would need to have changed in order for us to support the further progress of this legislation. One of those issues was the new regime of joint responsibility that is being brought in. In our view the joint decision-making regime is a direct undermining of the responsibility and the role of the Minister of Conservation. I am amazed that the Hon Dr Nick Smith has put up with it, frankly. I thought that he would have had a bit more pride in the position as Minister of Conservation, but it still remains. It is a mistake. It shows a really massive deficit in the understanding that the National Party has about the role of the Minister of Conservation, and that is obvious, actually, in the priorities that it has set, particularly in the budgeting area. So that joint ministerial responsibility is a mistake. I hope that, as the bill progresses through the House, it is removed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe second area is the economic benefit test, which is, again, a huge indication of the lack of understanding that the National Party has of the value of the conservation estate\u2014the value of not mining in areas that should be protected. Its framework of thinking is about the balance between conservation and so-called economic benefits that may be gained from exploration, without any acknowledgment that there are some parts of our country that are just too precious to mine. That is not part of the Government\u2019s consideration or its thinking. So the area of joint ministerial responsibility should go, as should the way the economic benefit test overrides the intrinsic worth and value of the conservation estate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI also want to make it very clear that Labour does not oppose mining. Our party started on the West Coast, an area that has at its heart mining\u2014coalmining\u2014so we have a strong history and have retained that link with the mining community. But there must be a regime around mining that recognises the environmental damage that can be done, as well as the inherently unsafe nature of coalmining, and I want to come back to that point later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIn the purpose statement there is an indication of the flawed thinking that I referred to earlier. The purpose statement says that the purpose should be to promote mining activities. In our view, that language is wrong. It reduces the responsibility in other areas of mining and it does not truly reflect the best way for mining to be managed by the Government. So, instead of \u201Cpromotion\u201D, there should be phrases like \u201Cmanaged\u201D, \u201Cfacilitate\u201D, or \u201Cregulate\u201D. There are no references to health and safety, there are no references to sustainability, and there are no references to environmental principles. This is a big gap in the frame of the Minister of Energy and Resources, Simon Bridges, who has just resumed his seat. It is not surprising that he has got a bit of a gap in his knowledge at the moment, because he is new to the job, but his predecessor, the Hon Phil Heatley, had it for a while and did not seem to get a grip on it, either. So the two issues that we raised right at the start\u2014that of joint ministerial decision-making and then that of the economic benefit test\u2014have not been addressed, and the purpose statement itself indicates the deficit that the National Party has in valuing our conservation estate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E The submissions that we heard\u2014and I managed to sit on this committee quite a number of times as it went through the process\u2014expressed some very strongly held concerns about the issues that I have raised about the fact that this bill totally undermines the mandate that the Minister of Conservation has as the guardian of the conservation estate. It is totally undermined by this legislation, by that joint ministerial decision-making role. The submissions in that regard I think have been largely ignored by the Government, and that is a big shame. Labour sees the environment and the economy as two sides of the same coin and when we are developing policy that might affect them we have to view them as a whole. This is not a balancing game; this is two sides of the same coin and they need to be viewed as a whole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI just want to refer to the second part of the select committee activity, which was instigated by the committee who called for further submissions as a result of the report from Pike River. I think that the committee responded to the recommendations of the Pike River report in a very responsible way and I want to pay credit to all the members of the select committee. This is a very difficult issue for us. We were being asked as members of Parliament to look at one of the biggest tragedies we have ever had in New Zealand and make some legislative amendments. I think that the way the select committee went through that part of the process was not just to its credit\u2014not just to the credit of the select committee, and it was\u2014but to the credit of our whole Parliament and, frankly, I think sometimes we could do with a bit more of that sort of work. Those health and safety issues, the mining regime issues, were taken very seriously and as a result a number of amendments have been made to the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EOur minority report, which we have put in with the select committee report, itemises the areas that we oppose, but actually there were some areas of the legislation that we support and I just want to take a minute of the House\u2019s time to outline those, because even though we are going to be voting against this bill in the end because of the problems that I identified at the start of my contribution, there are some parts of this legislation that are very good. The move to enshrine schedule 4 of the Crown Minerals Act 1991 and automatic inclusion of certain areas into schedule 4 is a good move and Labour supports that. The introduction of the two-tier system for permanent management with all the complex higher-return petroleum and minerals operations being classified as tier 1, and therefore because of their nature subject to a more stringent permitting process and a high-level pre-vetting of applicants\u2014that is a good move and Labour supports that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWe also support the improved coordination between the Crown minerals permitting regime and health and safety and environmental regulatory functions for tier 1 activities. That is what it is in the bill. We support that, but we are committed to saying that it should not necessarily be limited just to tier 1 applications. Integrating health and safety into the permitting process to ensure consistency and collaboration amongst the regulators to ensure that health and safety is considered right throughout the permitting process as a general condition of permits\u2014that is a very good move. The process of revocation of permits has been simplified and Labour supports that as well, as we support increasing the penalties for offences under the Act. So there are some good things in this bill and we welcome them and, as I say, we support them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EHowever, we will oppose the bill and that is with some regret. Had the Government had any understanding of the importance of our conservation estate, we would not be debating this legislation. It completely undermines, and demonstrates the lack of understanding of, the intrinsic value of the conservation estate in and of itself. We should not have the joint ministerial responsibility in these matters. The Minister of Conservation has the legislative mandate under the Conservation Act and it is being weakened by this legislation, and the economic benefit test totally ignores the value that the conservation estate has and gives to our country. So I look forward to the rest of the debate. I am glad that I have been able to put on the record the parts of the legislation that Labour supports, because too often that gets overlooked in the debate. I regret that we were not able to get those fundamental changes so that we could support the progress of this bill even further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb4a56156dd14a7da75172fb8b700961\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb4a56156dd14a7da75172fb8b700961\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E Malo le soifua. Thank you for the opportunity to speak in the second reading of the Crown Minerals (Permitting and Crown Land) Bill. May I first acknowledge the Minister of Energy and Resources, the Hon Simon Bridges, for bringing this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222344707160534033afe12229351d5b9b\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: He didn\u2019t. Phil Heatley did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec64358fa8e043089fc6df43a55837d4\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he is sponsoring it. He is sponsoring it; we know he did not bring it. It is an important bill, because this is part of the Government\u2019s Business Growth Agenda to grow the economy, to provide jobs and opportunities for our families, and to provide for our families and our communities out there, and it is something that this country, our fellow countrymen and women, are in agreement with and support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThis bill is about streamlining and simplifying the Crown minerals regulatory regime, and it is really about providing better coordination of the regulatory agencies. It is based on amending the Crown Minerals Act, obviously, and it has three objectives. One is to encourage development of Crown-owned minerals so that they contribute to more growth in our economy, which is important, again, because of job opportunities. It is also to streamline and to simplify the regime so that it is in line with our regulatory reform agenda of bringing down red tape, removing bureaucracy, and improving efficiencies in our economy. Finally, it is about the coordination of those regulatory agencies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EIt introduces a two-tiered system for permit management, and it distinguishes between those relatively small, complex, high-return, high-risk petroleum and mineral activities, as opposed to the larger low-return, industrial, small-business and hobby mineral opportunities. Because of the high-risk nature of tier 1 opportunities, they will be subject to a more hands-on, more coordinated management and regulatory regime, as opposed to the sort of simpler tier 2 regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI want to\u2014and I do not do it often\u2014commend Ruth Dyson, the last speaker, for her contribution. I do not always agree\u2014oh, she is about to fall over as she leaves the House. I do want to commend her, because, as she said, she opposes the bill, but she did point out parts of the bill that certainly Opposition members agree with and that they would support. But they are not supporting the whole bill. Therefore, they are not supporting economic growth, and they are not supporting our communities and our families out there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI just want to make a quick point about the sad tragedy, of course, of Pike River, the coalmine tragedy. It led to the royal commission and some of the recommendations that were made by that commission. Cabinet took those on board and, obviously, Supplementary Order Paper 152 will be tabled. It will require the Minister of Energy and Resources to take into account the view of appropriate health and safety authorities. I am sure that the Hon Simon Bridges will do that in his decision making before issuing tier 1 exploration or mining permits. Secondly, it will ensure that tier 1 mining activities do not start until the health and safety regulator is satisfied that those safety and health requirements are first met. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003ESo it is a good bill. It will deliver for New Zealanders. It will deliver some of the economic growth that we see across the Ditch in Australia in terms of its mining and exploration activities. Those are some of the activities and economic operations that we would like to see in this country, and this bill will deliver some of those benefits. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a07343a1638e4926927466539b3a458e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a07343a1638e4926927466539b3a458e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the next speaker, can I just remind members that it is not in order to refer to someone leaving the House. It is actually covered under Speaker\u2019s ruling 24/4, which refers to the absence of members, and was given by Speaker Algie. The reality is that many members have to leave the House because they have other commitments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a83f72e355274ed69c271f5a11c10d89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a83f72e355274ed69c271f5a11c10d89\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E The member who resumed his seat, Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga, currently has probably just about run out of crocodile tears for the families of New Zealand after issuing that view that this Crown Minerals (Permitting and Crown Land) Bill would be the silver bullet to save the economy, as he was depicting it. Look, we know that the mining industry in Australia to which he referred adds something to its economy. The truth is that it is a fraction of the wealth generated over there. Economic settings play a far bigger part in that story, and this Government has an absolutely shameful record\u2014a shameful record\u2014on the economy. It is the worst economic record of any Government in the last 50 years. That is what is hurting our families. That is why people do not have jobs. [Interruption] That is why 30,000 jobs have gone from the economy in the last year, Mr Bridges. David Shearer, the leader of the Labour Party, has asked from the beginning for a clean, green\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022099d9f5a5b02443b911b32849e34ff08\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Can I just say that the member is making a forceful speech and that, obviously, there is a lot of noise. The Speaker will not allow a speaker to be drowned out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe798f25094e4be4ab953b9cf7688d1b\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I thank you for that intervention, Mr Speaker. I appreciate that my voice is a little quiet, so I will try to speak over the member if he gets too noisy again. David Shearer said from the start of his time that he wants a clean, green, diversified economy that produces sustainable jobs. That vision is very different from what this Government is delivering. It is delivering a weaker economy with 30,000 fewer jobs than the year before. It is delivering an economy focused only on the primary sector. We need a strong primary sector in this country, but we do not need a monoculture. We need other industries to prosper also. I note that only recently I looked up the statistics again and saw that non - primary sector production in this country is down 10 percent under this Government. That is shameful. That is absolutely shameful, and jobs are going with that. Inequality is growing because there are not sustainable jobs in this economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe next point I wish to cover is around the fact that we did support this bill\u2019s referral to the Commerce Committee because we wanted it to be explored further, but we supported it to the select committee with some clear concerns. This Government has refused to address those concerns and those of submitters, and so we are now forced to oppose this bill. This bill could have been a better thing. This bill could have actually delivered jobs in a sustainable way that cared for families, looked out for New Zealanders, looked out for the environment, cared for health and safety concerns, and benefited the local economy. But this Government is not interested in those things, it seems. It is interested only in its mates and those who are behind the scenes trying to push through legislation that benefits one little segment and leaves the rest for dead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ELabour does not oppose mining. Our history is linked with the West Coast mines, but we believe that mining should be responsibly managed with good environmental stewardship and a long-term view of the industry and the country. Labour supports mining where it is done in a responsible, safe, and environmentally friendly way. We accept that we are going to need windmills. Windmills are made out of material that is mined. We need thermos flasks, which are made out of material that is mined. We need those things that are produced through steel, and steel is produced out of things that are mined. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThose things can all be done in a sensible and responsible way, but this Government\u2019s mismanagement in the mining sector is another factor. Look at Solid Energy\u2014the poster organisation for this Government. We have photos of Bill English turning over the first sod on the lignite project with Don Elder. Solid Energy is not doing that project now, and that is because it took on debt. Solid Energy was encouraged to take on debt by this Government. It was a billion-dollar company, an award-winning company under the previous Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9667ba85af54d59a47f2c46b1dfec0a\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I know this member is exuberant in the delivery of his speeches, but the substance of his speech is totally off topic from the bill that is being considered this afternoon. Can we ask the member to please come back to the Crown Minerals (Permitting and Crown Land) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022995918b47a6842c7a0e9ead9b674f14b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I was listening, and the member could perhaps just narrow it a little bit. I know it is a big debate because you are talking about Crown minerals, but let us just try to keep things within Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245ce70803f97453e86e4a078e37956ce\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying, this Government has run Solid Energy into the ground, and that is because of a lack of oversight and a lack of concern for how this sector is run. That is my point. This sector is being run in a shoddy fashion. It is not looking out for the interests of New Zealanders. Labour\u2019s bottom lines on mining are\u2014since that member asks\u2014that there must be capacity to respond to accidents quickly, and we have seen failures in that regard; there must be clear liability so taxpayers do not foot the bill for mistakes, and we have seen this Government time and time again hand over responsibility for mistakes to the taxpayer; there must be robust protection of the natural environment, and we do not see that here, either; and there must be a benefit for the local economy. Solid Energy, if we needed any illustration, shows, with all of those people put on to the dole queue, that that is not happening under this Government. The local economy is suffering because of the mismanagement by this Government of the sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ELabour is opposed particularly to there being joint ministerial responsibility for mining on Crown land. This Government is determined to take the teeth out of the Minister of Conservation\u2019s mouth. It is undermining\u2014if you will excuse the pun\u2014the Minister of Conservation at every step, and the powers and role of the Minister are drawn into question. We agree with the concerns of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, who stated that the Minister of Conservation will remain accountable for the conservation estate but is no longer in control. Labour is concerned about the economic benefit test to mining of the Department of Conservation estate. You have only to look back to those tens of thousands of people marching down Queen Street to get a really clear picture that the public is opposed to mining on sensitive land. This bill, with its test there, says \u201Ceven if an activity is not compatible with the objectives and purpose of the Conservation Act, the activity could still go ahead.\u201D That shows you where this Government is sitting on this issue. It is not making that balance. It talks about balance, but it is presenting an unbalanced piece of legislation. It is failing to deliver on jobs in the economy. [Interruption] We have a little sideshow over there\u2014it is a bit like the cycleway, which was the big jobs project that never delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbd07e51c8aa465ba1f05ab3a16bdff5\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t want jobs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7c9e25429ac48f5a638a132d278e0fa\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: There may be a job here or there digging on conservation land, probably for the lawyers, I would suggest, Mr Lotu-Iiga, but actually the real thing that needs to be addressed is the fundamental settings in the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EA proper plan would address the fundamental problems in the economy, Mr Lotu-Iiga, and that would get jobs back on track. A sector plan is needed. This Government has produced none of that. This reliance on the extractive sector and on primary produce\u2014you know, New Zealand is reliant on those things. Our agricultural sector, for example, is about the same size as Denmark\u2019s, and has been for a long time, but its export per capita now is three times that of New Zealand. Denmark has had a Government that is prepared to be hands-on with the economy, that is prepared to actually take the issue of jobs in hand, and that is prepared to grow the economy and not see wages fall year after year after year, like they have under this Government. This Government does not care about the workers. It needs to adopt better legislation that actually addresses environmental concerns, that addresses health and safety concerns, and that really looks at the issues that are presented to select committees and considers what submitters say, so that legislation can be improved for the benefit of every person in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ELabour did support this bill going to select committee, to give the select committee the opportunity to hear from those submitters and to make this into better legislation. Unfortunately, this Government\u2014this arrogant Government\u2014like it always does, ignored those submitters, stepped away from the advice that was given, and is determined to press on with its own vision, which is not delivering jobs for this country, which is not delivering jobs for New Zealanders, and which is seeing our economy stutter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022 data-id=\u002220503303af3f4a8b81ec7eea7a0b3277\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220503303af3f4a8b81ec7eea7a0b3277\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare i t\u0113nei r\u0101. Many happy returns to the mining industry. However, this second reading of the Crown Minerals (Permitting and Crown Land) Bill is not an occasion for celebration unless you happen to be a mining company\u2014it will really work for them. This is because this bill is designed for mining companies. It reflects their values and the tunnel vision that sees conservation land, communities, and tangata whenua as barriers to be removed or manipulated so that they can reap the coal or gold or oil and gas, which they sell to a population living beyond its means and needing to focus on more innovative alternatives. This bill is the miners\u2019 bill. It is also the Government\u2019s response to the 30,000 people who marched down Queen Street and the more than 30,000, the 39,000, who made submissions against the mining of schedule 4 land. So the Government lost the media war. It was seen to have to back down on the issue, but, like any strategist, it had another plan. That plan was amendments to the Crown Minerals Act, and here we see them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EThis bill is a betrayal of many conservation values. We heard that at the Commerce Committee. There was a range of submitters from a lot of different groups who talked about the real betrayal of the 2010 uprising of popular support for the conservation estate and how this bill legislates that betrayal. The Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, as mentioned by the previous speaker, Dr David Clark, summarised the most disastrous issue in this bill. She summarised it by saying that the joint ministerial powers will undermine and weaken the Minister of Conservation. To quote the parliamentary commissioner, \u201CIt cuts across the fundamental separation of functions and powers, whereby the Minister of Energy and Resources grants permits for minerals and the Minister of Conservation grants access to the conservation [land]. The Minister of Conservation will remain accountable for the conservation estate, but not in control. His or her core role as guardian of the conservation estate will be undermined.\u201D That is what this bill entrenches. That is not the only issue, but it is probably the most disastrous and the most seriously identified issue that went through our select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EHowever, there are many clauses we have concerns about, and I want to start with the Treaty issues. This bill claims to improve the relationship between the Crown, miners, and tangata whenua, but what it does is in fact one of the worst forms of tokenism. There is a Treaty clause, a standard Treaty clause, in the Act\u2014which is generally ignored by the miners, and we have got experience of that in my home area of Hauraki\u2014but there is also a new invention called iwi engagement reporting. This is a tokenistic annual report that a mining company must do to show that it has had a conversation with somebody from tangata whenua. It was opposed by Ng\u0101i Tahu and a number of Taranaki iwi that submitted, on the grounds that it is a breach of the Treaty, that it is tokenistic, and that it has no robust Treaty framework. The Green Party supports those claims. It is outrageous that it is called an improvement, when all it is is tick-the-box tokenism. The mining industry at the select committee said \u201COh, no, we\u2019re going to have a better relationship. We assure you. We promise.\u201D, but there is nothing to make sure that that happens, there is nothing in regulation, and there is nothing in this that represents a robust Treaty framework. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI move on now to some of the other aspects of the bill, including the issue of the purpose. The purpose of the bill is to facilitate and attract miners. It has abandoned all pretence of regulation and balance in favour of promotion and facilitation of one industry at the expense of others. The purpose lacks balance and leadership, and although a lot of the bill seems to be full of minor, innocuous detail, you have got to look at the embedded drivers. You have got to look at what the bill is set up to achieve. What it is set up to achieve is to convince the public. Although it is appearing to protect schedule 4, in fact it changes how the levers of power are delivered through a range of mechanisms. The stated focus is for a more efficient allocation and a fair return to the Crown, but, overall, it is a fast tracking of the minerals and petroleum development within a weak context of the other values and rights that New Zealanders feel so strongly about. New Zealanders have expressed passionate opposition to petroleum and mining development on vulnerable land, and this is being ignored. It is being ignored and was ignored at the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EThe role of the Minister is equally unacceptable. The role of the Minister is to help the mining industry as much as possible, and that role definition continues to be problematic when you look at the joint decision-making clause. Ministerial joint decision-making is a major political shift away from the idea that the Minister of Conservation should be able to talk about who should have access to the conservation estate, based on an assessment of values enshrined in the Conservation Act. Those things are being literally undermined. So it cuts across, as the parliamentary commissioner says. The compromise suggested at the select committee, which was that joint decision-making would apply only to \u201Csignificant\u201D applications with \u201Cthe potential to generate a significant economic return or that are high risk.\u201D, completely fails to address the core issues of concern, which are mining in significant areas, and mines that have potential to maybe make money for some foreign mining company but will do nothing for the values of the conservation estate. So the Minister of Conservation will be weakened considerably on these core issues that the public identified. In terms of the provision for public notification where the conservation Minister deems a proposal is significant, it is inadequate, because all mining activity on conservation land should be publicly notified. There are people who want to know; they should have a right to have a say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EOne of the most Machiavellian aspects of the bill is the provisions on Orders in Council. If you look at the supposed protection of schedule 4 as it exists, that sounds all very well. But if you want to add to schedule 4, instead of going through the process via the Minister of Conservation, Cabinet will now have the power to remove land from national parks, reserves, wildlife sanctuaries, and scientific reserves that are not in schedule 4. So this gives unprecedented control to the higher ranks of Cabinet, over and above the powers of the Minister of Conservation. You can guess that the status of the Minister of Conservation is not as strong as that of the Minister for Economic Development. It is not as strong as a number of other powerful Ministers, so we will see what happens to the conservation values. So although we have ostensibly protected schedule 4, additions will be via this process and it will be interesting to see whether in fact we can get any. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ENet economic benefit\u2014clause 31(6) proposes to add economic benefit to matters requiring consideration. Again, we sought a definition from officials; they worked hard to provide it. We sought clarity because we are concerned that without full cost-benefit accounting, the idea of net economic benefit will be narrowly defined in terms of particular immediate economic benefit. The quantification of cultural, community, and environmental values at the moment is badly understood, whereas net economic benefit can be used to privilege the mining industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EThe one part of the bill that we did support, along with everyone else, was this Supplementary Order Paper 152 on making sure that the Pike River recommendations were included. If the only good thing in this bill is that the workers get more safety, that is a good thing. We support it. We believe that workers\u2014both tier 2 and tier 1 miners, all of them\u2014should have the best possible protections under law. If we have learnt nothing from Pike River, we should have learnt that, and we fully support that Supplementary Order Paper. It needs to be there. We are a little concerned that the tier 2 miners get less protection because, supposedly, they are doing a smaller job. They are underground and they need protection; they should have the same level of protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EWe are also very concerned about the length of permits. We oppose any increase in the length of the excavation permits, as these are often granted with nil public input and nil accountability to local communities. We do not see any justification for the bill lengthening these permits, except for the convenience of the mining companies, but, then, that is what this bill is about. It is about how to make the Crown Minerals Act more convenient for the mining industry. It is about how to facilitate the industry\u2019s access to a whole range of land, including the conservation estate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EOur speakers in the House have talked about the wonderful economic benefits. I live in the Coromandel; our economic benefits come from our visitors. They come from the aquaculture industry. They come from annual returns, which are $350 million a year from our visitors. They come for beaches. They come for beauty. They come for the uniqueness of our area. They do not come to see holes in the ground on a regular basis. They are actually attracted to our area for its absolute contribution in terms of the environment. We stand for the environment, and the people who came to the select committee stand for it. What was disturbing to see was both the tangata whenua concerns about consultation and the submitters, who passionately believe in protecting those values for future generations, being completely ignored, and the setting up of this bizarre and unprecedented control by joint ministerial powers. We will rue the day that we created this kind of double jeopardy. It is not where this country wants to go. We saw the people marching the streets, saying \u201CProtect the land.\u201D, and it is now being ignored under the bill. This bill is a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5e2f4bcd8ce400cb1a9a2f3476f6153\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5e2f4bcd8ce400cb1a9a2f3476f6153\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Sat sri akaal, Mr Assistant Speaker, and thank you for the opportunity to speak on the second reading of this Crown Minerals (Permitting and Crown Land) Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThis bill is another step in the Government\u2019s Business Growth Agenda. The natural resources industry is now one of the major export earners for the New Zealand economy. This industry contributes taxes and royalties to the New Zealand economy. There is huge potential in this sector and an opportunity for the creation of highly paid jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EDuring the select committee process we received more than 500 submissions, and 44 submissions were heard in person. I would like to acknowledge the chair of the Commerce Committee, Jonathan Young, and the members for their work, and I would also like to acknowledge the officials who helped during the select committee process. Some amendments have been suggested by the select committee, which are being considered. I hope this bill will help to grow this industry in the future. I support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u00221d7e79141a1a45788866417ebda15444\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d7e79141a1a45788866417ebda15444\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on behalf of New Zealand First for the Crown Minerals (Permitting and Crown Land) Bill. As we advised at the first reading, New Zealand First will be supporting this bill going through to the committee stage. We have some reservations about some aspects of the bill, but we do fully support the intention of it. This bill is all about the natural resources and the Crown-owned minerals of our nation, which are a very, very important part of our economy. New Zealand First recognises that economic development and economic growth are required for our country to succeed and prosper and for the benefit of the people of New Zealand. Therefore, it is most important that we get this right, and it is most important that this Parliament passes legislation to ensure that we do get it right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EIn terms of Crown minerals, something in the order of $2 billion has been received by the Crown since 2008 from royalties on minerals, so it is a very significant amount of money coming to this nation. It is virtually the equivalent of what the National Government gave back to the wealthy 10 percent of New Zealanders in taxes\u2014$2 billion\u2014a few years ago. We certainly need these royalties to offset the $2 billion that National so swiftly gave away when it came to office in 2009. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EIn terms of the royalties, however, New Zealand First does have some concerns that the royalties disappear into a big black hole in the Crown coffers and do not necessarily benefit the location from where the resources are taken. As a result, New Zealand First put out a policy a few weeks ago called the regional royalties policy, whereby under New Zealand First we would return 25 percent of all royalties back to the region that the resources were taken from. This has had huge support from around the country, and many, many organisations have advised us that they think it is a very sensible move that we have put forward, in that it would help a great deal of economic development around the regions. It would also help many of the regions that are financially strapped to provide the necessary infrastructure. For instance, you can imagine that many of the rural roads have been cut off now from a significant amount of funding, because of the roads of national significance taking priority, particularly some of the motorways and various things that the Hon Steven Joyce would love to roll out everywhere. As a result of that, many of the rural communities are suffering on their roading. If, in that situation, 25 percent of the royalties were returned to some of those local authorities and to those regions in order to help support their infrastructure, it could offset some of the costs, for instance, of roading in some areas that is deteriorating as a result of heavy vehicles and trucks and those sorts of things for the extraction of the minerals and resources, forestry, and even getting into all sorts of other areas of taking resources from New Zealand. So we believe that it is a very important policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EIt would also benefit the likes of the Chatham Islands. Our Commerce Committee heard that the Chatham Rock Phosphate company wishes to extract phosphate from the Chatham Rise. About 1 percent of the area of the rise is to be extracted\u2014a very small part of the rise\u2014but it would be something in the order of 25 million tonnes of phosphate over the next several decades to make New Zealand 100 percent self-sufficient in rock phosphate or superphosphate. It currently comes from Morocco and Algeria and various other dodgy places, when New Zealand could become self-sufficient in it, which would therefore reduce our importation requirements. It would be very significant for the Chathams if, for instance, 25 percent of the royalties taken from the rock phosphate were returned to the Chatham Islands to help pay for their infrastructure for the relatively small population there. That would give them ongoing guaranteed income from Chatham Rise. Therefore, it is a very sensible policy that we certainly hope the Government will take up and implement in due course. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EWe are supportive of the fact there is a two-tiered system for permit management so that the higher-risk, higher-value minerals that perhaps have more significant effects will have a higher level of permit management requirement, rather than those that have a lower risk and lower value that do not present the same effects. Swift and decisive action is also possible under this bill for non-compliance, and it is a good thing that non-compliance will be acted on and that there is swift decision-making to address that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThe bill will also have a process to sift out applicants who do not meet the standards. It will basically vet applicants in a sensible manner in the early stages so that people do not waste time\u2014do not waste Resource Management Act time and do not waste a lot of Crown time, ministry time, or the time of the courts in terms of applications. They will be sifted out early in the piece to certainly improve the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that the bill includes a requirement to report the engagement with iwi and hap\u016B, called the iwi engagement report. That is required each year. We were wondering whether the iwi engagement report was another name for the engagement between the National Party and the M\u0101ori Party, because they seem to very much have an iwi engagement between these two parties all the time. We do wonder how that report will necessarily be effected, and we will watch that with interest. We certainly feel that in terms of the minerals of this country and in terms of the extraction, this must benefit all New Zealanders and it must be for the benefit of our nation so that our nation can go forward most certainly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EThe bill streamlines a system for industry and community. Community consultation and the aspects of that in this bill are good, as it provides for and ensures community consultation in relation to Crown interests. It also complements the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act, which was put into place last year. So in terms of that, this is a good move to line this bill up with that Act, which was put through in 2012. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003EHowever, New Zealand First\u2019s position is always that we support economic development, but it must be in terms of the environment and in a sustainable manner. The environment must always be given the benefit of the doubt if there is something at risk of impacting on that environment. We must ensure that the \u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D image is not tarnished in any way, and so it is important that aspects of this bill are closely scrutinised to ensure that that \u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D image is maintained. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First will be supporting this bill going through to the select committee. We are doing that so that this bill gets full and robust consideration, and so that the people of New Zealand have an opportunity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7db8402385e44bbb0b09c2118a24654\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s been to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228327f79e81245dc990773aac940551f\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it has been to the select committee. Oh, sorry. This is the second reading. Sorry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b620ae6d14bb4343af835ef12e48c623\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: This is the second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b7f9df040594e3f8a2a4b98737d5af8\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, sorry\u2014to have full input into it. We believe that that is important. Every New Zealander stands to benefit from this bill, and New Zealand First will be supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u00223cc522329143430bbb764bf06a4d53ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223cc522329143430bbb764bf06a4d53ac\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E Ni hao. Xie xie. I rise to support the Crown Minerals (Permitting and Crown Land) Bill. The bill will encourage the development of Crown-owned minerals, which is crucial to New Zealand\u2019s economic growth and standard of living. I believe that New Zealand is rich in mineral resources. However, we have not done what we should have done many years ago, and that is to have a good understanding of our mineral resources or mineral wealth. This bill is a move in the right direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EAs we can see in Taranaki, mineral exploration boosts the economy and creates jobs. Mineral exploration contributes $2 billion to the economy in Taranaki, second only to agriculture at $4.6 billion. Exploration sustains 5,090 jobs in Taranaki, compared with 3,720 jobs in agriculture. I commend the bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002231f909ea47ba427eb9a4487e15257711\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231f909ea47ba427eb9a4487e15257711\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Gidday, Mr Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022372f8aef18394dbcac2be0887e5f2235\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that\u2019s what the Aussies say\u2014gidday, mate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ae46c3c7142415eb582c480b84bd791\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: They say it in Wainui too, on occasions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI am surprised at the lack of enthusiasm shown by the Government benches for this bill, the Crown Minerals (Permitting and Crown Land) Bill. I would have thought that those members would want to debate it seriously. I thought my colleagues in New Zealand First would want to debate it seriously, too. Just a bit of naughty advice for them: it never pays to use the first reading speech notes for the second reading, because that sometimes tends to indicate things are going to happen that are not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThis bill has been to a select committee. The Labour Party supported it going to the Commerce Committee so that people could have their say on it at the select committee. We have listened to what the people have said and we are voting against it now, because there were a number of questions that were open and they were not properly answered by the Government or by the amendments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThere is a series of bottom lines around mining. Some of the bottom lines are the capacity to respond to accidents quickly. That has not been addressed in this legislation. There has got to be clear liability so that the taxpayers do not keep on fronting up for mistakes, either directly or indirectly, as we have seen Solid Energy has as far as Pike River is concerned. It should never have bought that. It should not have taken off the private sector the obligations around Pike River. We know it did it in an attempt to grease up to the Government, which we now know it is in so much trouble with. There have got to be robust protections for the natural environment\u2014and it is clear that that is not in this legislation\u2014and there has got to be a benefit for the local economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EWith all due respect to Dr Yang, the previous speaker, saying that in our most mineral-intensive province, Taranaki, mining is half the value of agriculture just has to emphasise the risk and the relative rewards. We have got to make sure, when mining does proceed, that there is not risk\u2014that the rest of the economy is not being placed at risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1c2624eb33f488e953825160aa4b9c1\u0022\u003ECatherine Delahunty\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s oil\u2014it\u2019s not even minerals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5df61b21af244e08838d983dee79750\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Having said that\u2014and I see my old friend Catherine Delahunty, not Eugenie Sage, is interjecting\u2014I have been a person who has been quite supportive of the mining industry, and very unsupportive of the mining industry on the Coromandel. I have got a history of doing this case by case and looking at the value of different propositions. What I have found is that there are some things that are just absolutely pointless. Trying to get gold out of the Coromandel has, over the years, caused enormous environmental damage. People who want to do it more are, I think, nuts, as are, though, people who say there will never be a use for the lignite that is in the South Island at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI know it is somewhat controversial, but, as Minister for State-owned Enterprises, I certainly did not object to Solid Energy buying farms and, effectively, the mineral rights to lignite in Southland, because what is sitting under there is 400 years\u2019 worth of transport energy for New Zealand. I am just going to say that again slowly: there is 400 years\u2019 worth of transport energy for New Zealand. But I am the first to accept that we are a long way away from the science that is necessary to get that released. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe sequestration\u2014I have witnessed a number of interesting arguments between Don Elder and David Parker, some public and some not, on sequestration. There is no doubt that it will happen one day, but whether it is 10 years away, 15 years away, or 30 years away, the technology has got to be done before we can use that lignite, unless we are going to follow the silly approach that Bill English wanted, which was to burn lignite. I mean, burning lignite in pellets is just nuts. It is a total waste of energy, it is polluting, and it causes all sorts of gas problems. The other thing that has to happen before the lignite can be used properly is that we have got to get the technology for hydrogen fuel cell batteries, which are powered off the lignite, moved along as well in order to use the power, the energy, that is sitting underneath the ground. So what you are hearing from me is that I think there are occasions\u2014and a lot of occasions\u2014when the energy that we have in New Zealand can be used, and used carefully, used properly, and used responsibly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EWhat we were hoping for\u2014and the reason that we supported sending this bill off to the select committee\u2014was that the Government had its head around this legislation. I might say that although I disagreed with him, I thought that Phil Heatley actually had quite a good understanding of it. I mean, he was wrong in a number of areas, but he had worked hard, he cared about it, and he was a responsible Minister of Energy and Resources. He was on Steven Joyce\u2019s \u201Crah, rah, rah, let\u2019s dig it up\u201D team, but in the end we have had him replaced by someone who appears to have no interest in the area at all and who, to date, has shown no real understanding of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe point I am making is that we gave the Government the opportunity and the encouragement to try to build\u2014well, I think it is fair to say that we will never get a consensus in this Parliament on this issue, you know. While you have in this Parliament John Banks and Catherine Delahunty we will never get a consensus on mining in New Zealand. Throw in Damien O\u2019Connor and it gets more complicated still. But what I was hoping for was that, at least across the major parties in New Zealand, we could get a level of consensus that would bring us to some legislation that could be enduring and that people could have some certainty about, and that that certainty would mean that where it was appropriate and where proper care had been taken, then investment would be made, and it would be made in the sense that it could be ongoing and enduring. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EBut what we have had from the National Government is that it is not interested in that sort of approach. What it is doing, despite blowing the trumpet of being pro-mining, is taking decisions in its legislation because it knows that the Labour Party will signal changes to it, policy differences, and the fact that the legislation will not be enduring. What that means is that the very investment that it wants is actually less likely to happen, because people who are making investments, especially in the current economic climate, are going to say: \u201CHang about. Hang about. We\u2019re going to wait and see whether our investments will be worthwhile or not.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EIn a funny way, we are getting the policy objective of the Greens through the legislation of the National Government, because instead of building a major party approach to it, what it is doing is going off with a radical mining agenda that has no certainty, and that in fact, everyone knows will not continue. The result of that will actually be that mining will not occur, because the businesses will not be prepared to put in the hundreds of millions of dollars that is necessary to start the mines. I think that as a policy outcome the Greens could well be happy with that, but what I am concerned about is that proper planning, proper safety measures, and a proper approach to the environment will not happen in the longer term, because of the radical approach taken by the Government, especially by Steven Joyce, who we all know just does not care about either real jobs\u2014jobs that pay well for New Zealand workers\u2014or the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6723770536f43e48bb49ef62354d542\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6723770536f43e48bb49ef62354d542\u0022\u003EMARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a second call on the Crown Minerals (Permitting and Crown Land) Bill. I was very disappointed to hear the comments made by Mr Mallard. This is an important bill for New Zealand\u2019s future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EDr Clark alluded to the fact that this is not a silver bullet. I agree with you. This is not a silver bullet, but this is an important initiative in the overall growth and development of our economy. The sad thing is that if it were up to Labour, it would have its foot on the throat of the economy and it would put a bullet straight through the heart of it. That is the reality of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThis is an important bill, and it is important for New Zealand to make sure that we start developing our mining sector in a responsible manner. We cannot rely on one separate sector or one individual sector. It is important that our economy is developed overall. I am very happy to stand in support of this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022069e15d5f1454f2a8ea278641629efc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022069e15d5f1454f2a8ea278641629efc4\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that the next call is a split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00227939185fda7543ccbecf53adfd37281a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227939185fda7543ccbecf53adfd37281a\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014West Coast - Tasman):\u003C/span\u003E Can I just acknowledge and applaud my colleague Trevor Mallard, who summarised the situation very, very well. The truth is that the National Government\u2019s management of mining issues has been inept\u2014completely. It charged off with a policy that said it would mine national parks. Everyone in New Zealand, other than the radicals on the fringes, objected to that. As Mr Mallard said, it actually swung things back into the Greens\u2019 camp. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party and I support mining. We support responsible mining and we support safe mining. We have not always had that. That is why we supported the bill going to the Commerce Committee, where there was some good consideration. I got an email from someone who said: \u201CWe won\u2019t have any mining under a Labour-Greens Government.\u201D Well, the truth is that there were more mines opened and more mining development under the Labour-Greens Government than we are seeing under National, but we did it in a responsible way. The fear is that with these changes we may step backwards, into a position that is not sustainable, and, as Mr Mallard said, we would end up with further change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E Certainty is what the National Government offered mining in 1997 when it said schedule 4 and national park areas were out of bounds. That was supported by the Labour Government because it offered the industry certainty. That is what is needed, as Mr Mallard said, to invest the hundreds of millions of dollars. We have always supported mining that is responsible. When it comes to conservation land we have said that schedule 4 land is out of bounds, and we have allowed and negotiated with mining companies to mine on conservation land very, very cautiously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe issue of whether two Ministers should be involved is a bit like saying to the farmer who owns the land with mineral rights on it: \u201CYou are going to have to compromise as to whether mining is going to occur there.\u201D The National Government would not dare say to the miner or any other landowner: \u201CYou have got to compromise the decision.\u201D It would say that there are some property rights involved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EOn conservation land, the Minister of Conservation is responsible. The issue my colleagues have raised is that the Minister of Conservation should ultimately be responsible. I do not have a problem with that, because I know of numerous examples where the Minister has negotiated, and the Department of Conservation has negotiated. Yes, it has taken some time; yes, there has had to be flexibility; and, yes, there had to be some environmental guarantees, and that is what we expect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI do not want some Auckland-based mining company, with the support of Steven Joyce, coming down and raping and pillaging the West Coast and leaving it with environmental degradation. I want responsible mining, and I want the Minister of Conservation to be able to put in place protections that ensure we have proper environmental protection in place, be it on conservation land or be it on private land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI also support the submission that was brought to the Commerce Committee\u2014I believe it was judged to be out of the scope of the bill\u2014from the Buller District Council that said: \u201CWe must have some royalty\u2014some income directly from mining, back into local communities.\u201D We have said that we in the Labour Party want mining if there is benefit to the local economy. Well, we do have jobs, as we know. The issue is the sustainable benefits that are enduring beyond the life of the mine. It is a fair question that submitters should put to the committee\u2014and I see that it has been rejected by the committee\u2014that a portion of the royalties and levies from mining go back to the local community. I think it is a very reasonable proposition. It is one I still want to discuss with my colleagues. As the bill goes through the Committee stage, we will wait and see what happens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ELabour is not supporting this bill, on the basis of that joint decision-making. I understand what can happen when the Minister of Conservation has sole responsibility. It can allow mining\u2014responsible mining. Why this Government, like it did with the national parks mining proposal, wants to stir up a hornets\u2019 nest, add uncertainty to the mining industry, and then stir up every anti-mining person to campaign against it, as happened in the past, is beyond belief. It should have responsible legislation that Labour would have supported all the way through. Not content with that, it wanted to put a stick into the hornets\u2019 nest and say that the Minister of Conservation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220f208bf45ec4ce5ac666d1a241f39fb\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. His time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u00223ed43ec88cae405b950eae183ec8f266\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ed43ec88cae405b950eae183ec8f266\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. One of my proudest moments as a New Zealander was when I was marching with 30,000 other Kiwis. It was great. I was at the front, holding the banner, marching down Queen Street. What we and tens of thousands of New Zealanders were marching for was a value\u2014that we love and want to protect our environment. It is not something that we balance off, as the National members say it is. It is a core Kiwi value. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe love the environment. We love that we can go tramping or hunting or even just for a bush walk, and we do not want to put it at risk. We are not going to trade it off. In fact, it is the heart of our economy. It has been since time immemorial, and it always will be. So Kiwis stood up. They told the Government that its plan to mine our most treasured places was not on. They were not going to stand for it. The Government backed down\u2014rightfully so\u2014and we congratulate the Government on backing down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EBut now the Government has adopted a different strategy, which my colleague Catherine Delahunty touched on\u2014a slow, methodical, grinding, bulldozer approach, using the powers of finance, legislation, regulation, and the signals Government Ministers can put into their speeches and directions to Government departments. The Government is slowly grinding down our treasured places, and for what? A strategy that is in tatters\u2014a strategy that was never going to deliver the type of prosperity Kiwis deserve or want. It is a strategy that is a lazy, risky gamble. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIt is lazy because it hopes that someone else will do the work, or someone else will find some oil or gas. There is no vision. There is no plan. There is no method to get there. There is no innovation. It is a gamble because we know that risking our environment risks the rest of our economy. It puts at risk our valuable \u201Cclean, green\u201D brand, which has been valued at over $20 billion. It puts at risk our tourism and our aquaculture. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIt is risky for our environment. We do not want to put our environment at risk of deep-sea drilling and a massive oil spill, or the types of tragedies we have seen. It is a risky, lazy gamble, and the benefits are overstated. We have got the fourth-lowest royalty and tax rate in the world. We know that there will be hardly any jobs for New Zealanders. This sector has got the lowest job-creating potential of any sector of the Taranaki economy. Of course, we know that when it comes to the likes of deep-sea oil drilling\u2014your TAG Oil\u2014all of the profit is going to go overseas. So we think there are better ways, and we wish the Government would get off picking the one horse\u2014this sector\u2014that is going to deliver the least of any other potential sectors, and do something about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222eac0409d1e346b4aba25d6ad955cccd\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What do you say we should do? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290b7d65439c94744aff46a8d0d99907d\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: What would we do? We would prioritise the clean, green economy. This is something that PricewaterhouseCoopers has said is worth $22 billion to our economy. The Greenpeace report said we could be saving $600 million a year in electricity. The Pure Advantage report said we could see 50,000 jobs in clean energy. What is the Government focusing on? A handful of jobs, mostly for foreigners, with all the profits going offshore. The Government is picking the wrong horse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EYou can see in this bill, the Crown Minerals (Permitting and Crown Land) Bill, what the Government is doing. The whole purpose is about picking winners in the oil, gas, and fracking sectors. It is about disempowering communities. It is about the function of the Minister, and this is one of the key clauses in the legislation. The function of the Minister is not to be independent oversight, with the best interests of the country at heart; the function of the Minister under this legislation is to attract permit applications. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E I do not know whether any other members felt a bit embarrassed that our Prime Minister was off in Brazil grovelling to the Brazilians and hoping that Petrobras would come back. This is what we are doing\u2014an embarrassing strategy. You can see it with the schedule 4 decisions, in which we are seeing a weakening of these protected\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dbfaaf0be83484ca3afd14fe0cad1cb\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think a number of us were just tolerating the abusive comments from the Hon Simon Bridges when we thought they were directed to the member, but the last three of the comments he has directed to you. Calling you a loser or an empty vessel, Mr Assistant Speaker, is not appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c31c4d3027fa4cc3adb848b9a53ae8a3\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, at this hour of the day that is correct. I just ask members to calm it down. I did have to indicate earlier that this dialogue and interjections across the benches mean I sometimes cannot hear what the member is saying, so please cut it down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f862c88ee586492591b3fae7b6ef6063\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: I think the honourable Minister is embarrassed. The plan is in tatters. You have got Petrobras walking out, you have got Apache Corporation walking out, and, amongst other things, mining prices have collapsed so much that Solid Energy is in strife. Coal companies are leaving the country. The whole plan is in tatters. That is why it is ridiculous that we are passing this legislation just to facilitate more mining and gas. We are seeing the weakening of the power of the conservation Minister, which was slightly improved in the select committee but not enough and not in actuality. We have got tokenism in iwi consultations. There are a couple of improvements\u2014the ability to put a moratorium into effect, or ban specific mining types\u2014and we have Supplementary Order Paper 152, which effects the recommendations of the Royal Commission on the Pike River Coal Mine Tragedy, but the fact is that there are better options for this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI was at a wind energy conference last night and I asked them to imagine what they could do, and how we could get some of those 50,000 jobs Pure Advantage talked about, or the $22 billion PricewaterhouseCoopers talked about, if we had a level playing field. If the Government was giving the clean energy sector the type of support\u2014not subsidies, just support\u2014it is giving to the oil and gas industry, we could do wonderful things with our clean energy sector. That is the hope and the vision the Green Party brings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e04d52c558814989ac4ab80152d75323\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Crown Minerals (Permitting and Crown Land) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand First 7; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022705f15cb520f42f29a1a103cb6c40df9\u0022\u003EMinimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a6396b23d8c8432592f71f17351f7bc5\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9edc17d36fd48beb18f3d077af885f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9edc17d36fd48beb18f3d077af885f6\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Minimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. It gives me great satisfaction to support this bill at its third reading. This bill delivers on the Government\u2019s commitment to establish a starting-out wage to assist young people to gain a foothold in the labour market. I would like to thank the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, officials, and submitters for their work on, and contribution to, this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe Minimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill is part of the Government\u2019s focus to create job opportunities for young people who are finding it difficult to get work in the current economic climate, and who have not been helped by the minimum wage settings broadened by the previous Government. The youth minimum wage was abolished in 2008 by the Labour Government and replaced by a new entrants wage that was rarely used. Research commissioned by the then Department of Labour suggests the abolition of the youth minimum wage has resulted in the loss of up to 9,000 jobs for young New Zealanders. The new entrants wage applies for the first 3 months or 200 cumulative hours. Businesses complain it is too complicated, impractical, and fleeting to bother with. Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment research indicates it is used by only 2 percent of employers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe starting-out wage will encourage employers to take on young people, who will then have the satisfaction of earning money, gaining skills, and getting the work experience they need. The bill achieves this by providing the ability to set different minimum wage rates, known as starting-out wage rates, by Order in Council for specified groups of young people aged 16 to 19 years. These rates must be set at no less than 80 percent of the adult minimum wage. This bill encourages continuity with the same employer by providing that a young person on a starting-out wage must complete 6 months of continuous work with an employer before they are entitled to be paid the adult rate by the employer. With a steady work history behind them, young people, like other employees with a steady work history, will be seen as less risky for new employers to take on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe bill also addresses the problem of young people who have been on a benefit for a length of time of 6 months or more and may face difficulty re-entering or gaining a foothold in the workforce. The bill will provide for a starting-out wage rate to be set for these young people, and in so doing encourage employers to take on young people who have been out of the workforce for a while or may lack skills or experience. The bill also provides for young people aged between 16 and 19 years who are required to undergo training as a condition of the work to be paid the starting-out wage, rather than the minimum training wage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThis Government is committed to creating an environment that encourages economic growth. Part of this environment is providing a better balance to our labour market rules, which focuses on helping businesses grow while ensuring workers\u2019 rights and opportunities are maintained. Initiatives such as the starting-out wage will give young people the opportunity to get a foot in the door. This bill will provide a strong incentive for employers to take on young people. Once in work, young people will gain the essential and necessary skills and work experience that will assist them throughout their working lives. This is a positive step for young people in New Zealand. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u002261387f0b832046c997ee1c5431c88e90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261387f0b832046c997ee1c5431c88e90\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to put on record Labour\u2019s very strong opposition to the Minimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill. The passing of this bill today will create an underclass of young workers and consign them to economic marginalisation. Not content with making it impossible for young workers to challenge their unfair treatment and dismissal in the first 90 days of employment, and not content with its abject failure in addressing youth unemployment, this Government has now come up with a failed and tired old approach of cutting the wages of young workers aged 16 to 19 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThis bill assumes that there are thousands of employers out there just waiting to offer jobs to younger people and to give them a foot in the workforce, as National says and as the Minister of Labour says. We know that that is a false assumption. The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment has openly admitted that it has very little idea of whether this bill will meet its stated outcomes. The ministry tried a best guess that this bill could create 400 to 1,100 jobs, but we in Labour have learnt to become very wary of Government predictions of job creation. Who has forgotten the 2011 Budget projection of 170,000 new jobs by 2015-16? What has happened since then? Unemployment has continued to rise, more good jobs have been lost, and our youth unemployment is a national disgrace. Then today we learnt that there could be as many as 1,500 more jobs going from Telecom, which are high-skilled jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWhat worries me most of all about this bill is that it is just the beginning under this young, new Minister. Treasury has suggested that paying other workers sub-minimum wages is something that could be extended in the future\u2014other workers who have a high unemployment rate. So what we could see in the future are the vulnerable workers such as M\u0101ori and Pasifika or those who live in areas where jobs are hard to find on a so-called starting-out wage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, what this bill does is remind us that the Government has no ideas and that we are going back to the past, where low-wage jobs were the norm, where productivity was increased by having more people paid less and working longer, where good jobs were offshored because of lack of investment and hands-on economic policy, and where our young people were sacrificed to a future of economic marginality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThis bill needs to be read in context with the Government\u2019s planned changes to other employment laws, which will help slash the wages for hundreds of thousands of other New Zealand workers. From what I hear, the Government\u2019s ideas for those employment law changes are so irrational that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment is struggling to draft the appropriate legislation. I think that that may be why the former Minister of Labour Kate Wilkinson failed to progress the National Government\u2019s policy, and the new, young, much-admired but very inexperienced and naive Minister Simon Bridges will find the same thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ECuts to workers\u2019 rights and pay are classic National Party. In the face of its economic failures and its marginalisation of thousands of unemployed and underemployed, it has resorted to its tried and failed policies of last century. In 2010 National strongly opposed Roger Douglas\u2019 member\u2019s bill to reintroduce youth rates, and the then Minister of Labour, Kate Wilkinson, confirmed that her Government would not support a return to discriminatory and unfair youth rates. We heard a range of florid speeches\u2014and I can see that we are going to get another one from members like David Bennett and Jackie Blue\u2014opposing youth rates and saying that young people deserved better. Well, what has changed? What has changed is that the Government is returning to its neo-liberal roots of making cuts to workers\u2019 rights and pay as a substitute for real economic policy and plans, and it is our young people who are going to pay the price.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EYou know, the most offensive thing about this bill is its framing as a starting-out wage. We know that that title is simply not true. Under this bill 16 and 17-year-olds will be returned to youth rates every time they start a new job, regardless of previous job experience, and under this bill 18 and 19-year-olds, who may have already had jobs on adult minimum wages or adult wages, will be forced on to sub-minimum rates if they have been unfortunate enough to be on a social security benefit, including the invalids benefit and sickness benefit. This bill, combined with the social welfare reforms from the Minister for Social Development, Paula Bennett, that we heard about and debated here yesterday, feeds the notion that our young people are lazy, they are addicted to drugs, and they are unreliable. It is based on the false assumption that the only way we can get young people into work is to pay them less. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe National Government has tried to run the argument that this bill is about the dignity of work. Labour certainly agrees that work is the best antidote to poverty, but it should be decent work. Decent work is not where people are paid less than they are worth, where they can be sacked without reason, where they can be forced to take jobs that could be unsafe, and where they are punished by a nasty regime within the social security system if they do not gratefully sign up for any job on a sub-minimum wage. A job should not only be about the work performed. It is a lot more than that. It is about getting experience, but also it is about relationships with other people in the workplace. It is about being fulfilled as a human being. People must feel recognised for their efforts and know that they are valued for those efforts and the contribution they make, and that applies to 16 and 17-year-olds and to 18 and 19-year-olds as much as it does to anyone else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWhat this bill will do is unleash thousands of young people available as cheaper workers on to our labour market, and that affects every single worker in New Zealand. There is absolutely no doubt that having cheaper young workers leads to the displacement of older workers\u2014older workers who, in this dire economic climate, are desperate to hang on to their jobs, who are not only in the queues of unemployment but also underemployment, who are crying out for better wages, and who are crying out for a Government that will do something to help them. And it takes no account of the expenses of young people\u2014the expenses they incur while actually working\u2014and whether the job will pay for the expenses of going to work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWhen we have a Minister for Social Development who is so desperate to claim success in job creation that she trumpets the employment of 16 workers for 2 weeks in the census collection, we are in real trouble. When we now apparently have a culture within our Government agencies where job gains are celebrated by the ringing of a bell, no matter what the job is, no matter what the pay level is, no matter what the conditions are, and no matter what the safety risks are, and where all that matters is numbers, we are in serious trouble. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAs we have gone through this bill, I have had on my mind one person I want to mention, and that is a teenager called Peniata Junior Endermann. He is a student at Edgewater College in Auckland who works from 5 p.m. to 10 p.m., Monday to Friday, as a cleaner earning the minimum wage. He is studying full-time. He is still at school. He is 16 going on 17. This job, along with his homework, means that Peniata puts in 16-hour days to help his mother, who also works as a cleaner on the minimum wage, and to help provide for his family and three siblings aged 15, 13, and 9. So Peniata is not lazy or unmotivated or unwilling. He has got himself a job. He should not have had to, but the state of our economy and low wages mean that in families like his everyone has to help out. But if Peniata changes his employment or if he is employed by a different cleaning firm, under this bill and the Government\u2019s intentions around protections for cleaners and other vulnerable workers, his pay will go down to $11 an hour. So it is young people like Peniata whom the young Minister Simon Bridges needs to talk to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThis Government did not listen to the more than 500 submissions opposed to this bill. It ignored the business community, who said that this is not a silver bullet and will not do the job and that the Government needs to do a lot better on youth unemployment. The simple arrogance of this bill is gobsmacking. I cannot express strongly enough Labour\u2019s disappointment and dismay at the direction this Government is taking today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6dea94c17414d2eb337bd24856bf5b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6dea94c17414d2eb337bd24856bf5b7\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to pay tribute to our fine young Minister of Labour, who has done a very good job in putting forward this Minimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill. Today is an important day for the Labour Party. The Labor Party in Australia is coming back to its roots. It is understanding the problems of having leadership that does not apply. The Labour Party of New Zealand has not gone through what the Labor Party of Australia is going through today: the blood-letting, the letting out of that pain, and facing the reality of the world. That member who just got up and spoke, Darien Fenton, did a personal attack on the Minister as her way of attacking this bill, and that is shameful. That is the kind of approach that the Labor Party in Australia has been playing, and look what is happening to it today. It is falling apart in front of your eyes. In 2 hours\u2019 time there will be a vote on the Labor Party and the leadership in Australia\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257e064cfbe284f48b10073c56f9f1077\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: What a shambles!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f40b706d677d47db91bb794ed4ad88dd\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It is a shambles. That is right. It is a shambles, and members opposite are following in their footsteps. It is going to happen to you soon\u2014I am sorry, Mr Assistant Speaker. It will happen\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022764f1d3bd752439ab8d2bda64f179f57\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] I am on my feet. I certainly do not want you to be bringing me into the debate, and that is for all speakers this afternoon. Keep the word \u201Cyou\u201D out of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223093735d80b94d138e73f43ae5557cec\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: That speaker spoke about being worried about the legacy under this new young Minister. That is what she said, and I think that was shameful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe need to move on to what the Labour members actually propose when they debate bills. The Labour Party says that workers should get more money the more time that they are in work. The Labour Party is based on the union movement, and the whole part of that union movement is that the longer you are in work, the more pay and conditions you get. That is what the Labour Party always says. The Labour Party is based upon a union movement that believes that there is a hierarchy of employment and payment, does it not? That is what it stands for, and yet in this bill it will not stand for this. It will not stand for giving people a chance when it is its mantra\u2014that is what it is. The Labour Party is about hierarchy of payment, it is about hierarchy of conditions, and when it comes to giving a young person a chance, it will not have a part of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIn reality our young people should be in education. There will be no future for our young people if they do not get that education going forward. But some of our people make a choice at that time of their life that they want to go straight into the workforce, and the Labour Party members are denying them that choice, and the reason they are denying them that choice\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221286ea4db19e416f98bc336da264c49f\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They hate the young.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225949a3ccb8d7401a9e5fd5b5a3f34eb9\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: They do not hate the young. They do not hate the young; they want to control the young. They want to control people and they want to play workers off against each other. They want to play older workers against younger workers and say that this is unfair and that the Labour Party looks after all their interests when that is not true. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe people out there need to understand. They need to not believe that party, because, in the end, that party does not stand for equality of wages between all workers; that party is all about having a hierarchy of wages and entitlements. It is a bit rich for those members to come into this House today and say to young people who want to get on the start of employment that they should not have that chance. It is very disappointing and really is a reflection of how far the Labour Party has got to go in New Zealand, like it has in Australia, on this dark day for the Labor Party in Australia. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u002265363144dd5843ebbeca514db9a8d338\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265363144dd5843ebbeca514db9a8d338\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E What a bizarre and shambolic contribution that was from David Bennett. He started off talking about the Australian Labor Party. He is so embarrassed by this piece of legislation, the Minimum Wage (Starting-out) Wage Amendment Bill, he could not even bring himself to talk about the New Zealand Parliament, let alone the bill that the New Zealand Parliament is addressing at the moment. Then he went on to talk about the hierarchy of wages and actually probably got to the heart of what this legislation is about, because he said he wants to ensure that people start on the lowest rate possible. He wants to make sure that the entry rates are lower so that the whole hierarchy comes down. That party believes in dropping wages. Its own leader said: \u201CI would love to see wages drop.\u201D That is because the National Party believes in driving wages down, keeping workers down. That is all that the National Party lives for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EBut I have got to be honest, I like quoting David Bennett. My favourite one, from a few years ago, is: \u201CThe Government is not here to make your life better.\u201D That was my particular favourite from David Bennett: \u201CThe Government is not here to make your life better.\u201D My goodness, we could not ask for a better representation of David Bennett\u2019s mantra of \u201CThe Government is not here to make your life better.\u201D than this piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EBut that is not all. David Bennett has had a range of views on this issue. A mere 2 years ago David Bennett said: \u201CI encourage those people who are listening and members in the House to look at this issue in the wider perspective of what we want to achieve in setting some incentives and some direction, and not try to scaremonger or create perceptions that if we have a lower rate of pay at the first level of employment, those opportunities will necessarily be provided.\u201D David Bennett, take a bow. I could not agree more with what David Bennett said 2 years ago in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIt was not just David Bennett; it was Jackie Blue as well, I think, at the time. Paula Bennett did not like the idea of youth rates, and the Minister of Labour at the time, Kate Wilkinson\u2014whatever has happened to her? She did not agree with youth rates either. This National Party flip-flops all over the place. It was in favour of it when it was in Opposition, then it was opposed to it when it was in Government. Now, a couple of years later in Government, it is in favour of it again. It is all at sea. What an absolute shambles this Government is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003ELet us be real about what this bill truly represents. It represents the failure of this Government. It represents the failure of the National Government to grow the economy. It represents the failure of the National Government to create more jobs. It represents the failure of the National Government to keep people in education, to make sure there are places available at universities and at polytechnics and in apprenticeships. It is an absolute demonstration of what happens when a Government comes to power with absolutely no economic plan at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003ESo what we have got is people losing jobs at Telecom, in the productive sector, people losing engineering jobs, and people losing high-skill, high-wage jobs, so now more and more of those people are competing with youngsters for those entry-level jobs at McDonald\u2019s, at Burger King, at Wendy\u2019s, at Pak \u2019N Save, at Countdown. That is the real problem here. Those jobs, which should be the entry-level jobs and often are the minimum wage jobs, are the jobs where, basically, youngsters were the only people applying for them. Now young people face massive competition from people who have been turfed out of their jobs because this economy is so weak. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EAnd, look, we accept that there is a certain nature of evolution in the job market. Some jobs will come and some will go. Some industries will rise, some businesses will rise; others will fall. But as businesses fall, if the economy is in good health, there will be other jobs for people to go to. There will be other high-skill, high-wage jobs for people to go to. But no, the only places where there are new jobs are the fast-food and supermarket industries, which is why this bill, the Minimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill, is being passed by this Government\u2014because young people are having to compete so hard against the older workforce for those low-skill, low-wage jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E What happened to the aspiration? What happened to the brighter future? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022065b19d69d3a4093ba3c65de1774375b\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What happened to Julia Gillard?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250fb73c1ed3d4df1bceaead293d2ffbd\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, she\u2019s gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279b4efe4c006470fbd0656d7a5524f24\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Where did it all go? It has all gone to Australia. That is right\u2014they have all flown to Australia. Members opposite can say what they like about what is happening with the Australian Government at the moment, they can say whatever they like, but the Australians are taking our talented young people. People are seeing more opportunity in Australia than they are seeing in New Zealand, so if I were those members I would not be crowing about what is happening in Australia, because the Australians are still doing a better job than any of those members could do in Government. That is the real situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003ELook, there is no justice in telling young people that their work is worth less than that of somebody else who is doing the same job as them and is just a couple of years older. That is unjustifiable discrimination. This House has been doing a very good job of dealing with other forms of unjustifiable discrimination in the past few weeks, and yet here the National Government is reintroducing another form of absolutely unjustifiable discrimination. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe fact is that the thing the Government says this bill is supposed to achieve, which is to give young people a supposed leg-up by allowing them to get into a job at a lower wage rate, already exists. It already exists, and yet we still have massive youth unemployment, we still have no growth in jobs, and we still have no growth in the economy. So doing more of what we have already got is not going to change things. That is the real situation. This bill is simply a representation of this Government\u2019s failure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EUnder National\u2019s watch 72,000 young New Zealanders aged between 18 and 30 have disappeared to Australia because that is where the job opportunities are, that is where the wages are, that is where the good working conditions are, and that is where the unions are strong. Paying lower wages, eroding workers\u2019 rights, and beating up the unions will only send more of our talented, valuable young people away overseas, and it is more and more likely that they will be lost to us for ever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EJohn Key has lost his ambition. He has lost the vision for a brighter future. He is content with New Zealand being mediocre and second-best.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022210a5a89e9d34ea88459bc1c49704ec8\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s ambiguous for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc79ad27f23d4cc4ad27c95863411bf5\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: He is ambiguous for New Zealand. He is content with our country being a place of low wages and low opportunity, and people are leaving in droves for better opportunities overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EYou do not improve the lot of our future generations by paying them less for doing exactly the same job as someone who is older. There is no justification for doing it. We would like to see the evidence, actually. We have heard a lot of rhetoric from the National Government, but we would actually like to see the evidence. I think that the National Government should listen to its own members a little bit more closely. There was Paula Bennett: \u201Cwe are not convinced it would reduce youth unemployment, plus it would be a distraction from the really important work of improving productivity and growing the economy in order to create long-term jobs, which will keep young people in New Zealand.\u201D Well, that was 2 years ago. Where is Paula Bennett now? Why is she not focused on improving productivity? Why is she not focused on growing the economy? Why is she not focused on keeping young people here in New Zealand, working for this country\u2019s future? This Minimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill demonstrates how this shambolic National Government has failed New Zealanders, failed our young people, and failed to grow the economy. The sooner its term comes to an end and New Zealand can be put on the path towards success, the better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022 data-id=\u00221c130c0d7598467cb81b63036e69e419\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c130c0d7598467cb81b63036e69e419\u0022\u003EHOLLY WALKER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I think we can probably agree in the House today that there is no doubt that we should be very worried about the rate of youth unemployment in New Zealand. We know that there are at least 90,000 young people nationwide who are not in any kind of employment, education, or training. We know that in every region of the country more young people are claiming the unemployment benefit than 5 years ago. We know that youth unemployment for those aged 15 to 19 is at around 30 percent. That is a rate that rivals those of Spain, of Greece, and of all those countries in economic chaos at the moment. We do not want to be in that list of countries. As well as hurting our young people right now, such high rates of youth unemployment will be disastrous for our country in the long term\u2014for our long-term health, education, employment, and justice spending and for the skills and sustainability of our future workforce. So this issue does deserve the highest priority of this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EHowever, the Government claims that reintroducing youth rates is its answer to these high rates of youth unemployment\u2014that reintroducing youth rates, as it does in this bill, the Minimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill, will improve job opportunities for young people and will encourage employers to take on more young workers. So how did it arrive at this particular solution to the problem of youth unemployment? Did it conduct a detailed evaluation of all the different ways that you might address youth unemployment, of all the different options to help young people into employment and training, and have a look at those against some kind of robust criterion about which was the most likely to succeed? No, it did not. It made an ideological commitment before the election to reintroduce youth rates\u2014largely at the behest of that single-member, irrelevant, and unpopular support party that it has, the ACT Party\u2014and pursued it, without even looking at any other options to reduce youth unemployment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EHow do we know it did not look at any other options? Because it says so in the regulatory impact statement for this bill. I quote: \u201CThe starting out wage proposal is a pre-election policy commitment. The Ministry\u2019s analysis has therefore not considered other options for achieving the objectives of the proposed starting out wage package.\u201D That is right: it did not even look at any other options to achieve the objective of reducing youth unemployment. This is not evidence-based policy. It is\u2014to borrow a phrase that I learnt last week from my colleague who has just spoken, Iain Lees-Galloway\u2014policy-based evidence. Having come up with the policy, it then got its officials to come up with some evidence to support it. That is no way to make policy, and what is in this bill is no way to reduce youth unemployment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EBefore I go on to talk a bit about the provisions of the bill and how harmful and discriminatory they are, I want to spend a little bit of time talking about some of the other things that the Government could do to assist more young people into employment, education, and training, instead of what is in this bill. The reason I want to do that is that I am aware that there are probably quite a few young people following the debate today, and they will have heard a lot if they are listening\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223186034e0e4d412db3d8a33b404c6844\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Really? Really?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266bda89ba1a0450aac2df7e3a4994f70\u0022\u003EHOLLY WALKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, because they are directly affected by it, Mr Bridges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cc13655605e4b54ae19a7abd6661943\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I doubt it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224446de716ce94941b34372b3d534c35f\u0022\u003EHOLLY WALKER\u003C/span\u003E: They will have heard\u2014and if they are not listening, there is a reason for that. They will have heard how hopeless the youth unemployment situation is and how they should be satisfied with any paid job they can get\u2014even if it is paid at less than subsistence wages. They will have heard a lot about how bad the bill is, and it is very bad. But I do not want any young people listening to this debate to lose hope or lose faith in the ability of this Parliament and us as MPs to advocate for them and for policies that actually work for them. I would not blame them if, having heard all that doom and gloom, they switch off. And if, indeed, as the Minister of Labour says, they are not watching\u2014and he, as the Minister responsible for this bill, should be very concerned if they are not\u2014it is because politics has become irrelevant and hostile to them. Indeed, the voting statistics from the last election show that more and more young people are doing exactly that\u2014turning away from Parliament and politics and disengaging from our political system. It is because of bills like this that they are doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EI want to assure young people that some of us at least have ideas and solutions to put on the Table and a genuine commitment to engage with young people about what works best for them. Had the Government done that for this bill, I think it would look very different. The Green Party, for example, is committed to better pathways to employment, education, and training for young people, including more equitable access to student support for higher education; greater investment in apprenticeships\u2014even more than the Government has recently made, which is nowhere near enough\u2014greater investment in job placements and partnerships with businesses and employers; and better financial support for young job seekers. The Transport and Industrial Relations Committee heard many practical ideas about how to achieve these things from the young people who submitted on this bill, who were full of good ideas about how we could address the problem of youth unemployment. Sadly, they were ignored by the select committee. They were ignored by the select committee, like all but seven of the over 500 submissions that were received by the committee. Out of those over 500 submissions, most of them\u2014over 500 of them\u2014were opposed, and only seven submissions were in favour of the bill. Yet the Government went with the seven, not with the 500. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EWhy were those 500 submitters opposed to this bill? Well, I will tell you. It is because it introduces unacceptable discrimination into our law. I have said this in the first reading and in my second reading speech. It is not acceptable in our country any more to pay women less than men for doing the same job. It is illegal to do that. It might still happen, but if it does, we do our best to find out about it and prosecute. Similarly, it is not acceptable to pay people from ethnic minorities less than others for doing exactly the same job. It is illegal, and when that happens we do our best to prosecute and report it. Similarly, it is not acceptable to pay young people who are doing the exact same job as older workers less for the same job. Since 2008, thanks to a member\u2019s bill in the name of the former Green MP Sue Bradford, it has been illegal to do that too. But this bill reverses that change and reintroduces lower minimum wages for three categories of young people: 16 and 17-year-olds in their first 6 months with a new employer, 18 and 19-year-olds who have been on a benefit for 6 months or more, and 16 to 19-year-olds who are in industry training. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003ENot only is it discriminatory and retrograde to do this, it is nonsensical, because where is the incentive for young people on a benefit to move into paid work if they will not get even the minimum wage when they do? How is it fair for a 16 or 17-year-old to have to go back to subsistence minimum wage rates if they move to a new employer, even if they had been paid at the full adult minimum wage for months, even years? If they start a new job, they have to go back. How does that make sense? What we will actually see are young people who are taken on for 90 days under the 90-day trial period. When they finish that 90 days, they will be flicked on to a new employer, and many of them will be locked into these low wages for much longer than 6 months, because they cannot get a foot in the door. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003EThis bill reinforces New Zealand as a low-wage economy. It will help to keep wages down, not just for young people, but actually for all workers, and subsidise employers. But, worst of all, I think it sends a terrible message to young people about the value that we in this Parliament place on them. It says that they are not worth as much as older New Zealanders, that their skills and their labour are less valuable, that their expenses and their costs are not as important, and, essentially, that they as human beings are simply not as important as older New Zealanders. It is no wonder that with a Parliament that sends that message, young people are turning away from us in droves, Mr Bridges. As I said in the second reading last week, there was a glimmer of hope last week when we passed the second reading of the Marriage (Definition of Marriage) Amendment Bill. We threatened to look relevant and interesting to young people for about 5 minutes, and the galleries were full of young people, but we have completely undermined that message this week with the passage of this bill. It tells young people they are not worthy of our respect, and, as I said last week in Parliament, I am ashamed of this House for passing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u00227eec23850dd4469295933295323ed0b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227eec23850dd4469295933295323ed0b3\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E We have heard from both the Labour Party and the Greens about people leaving in droves to go to Australia. Well, I ask members of this House: why? Mining\u2014mining and the opportunities that mining brings. Yet both those parties in the last debate voted against the very bill, the Crown Minerals (Permitting and Crown Land) Bill, that will open up the opportunities for people here in New Zealand. So it is a little bit rich when those members get up on that moral high ground that they seem to think they should occupy and start voting against a bill like this, the Minimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has got some real challenges around youth unemployment, and there are a number of reasons for that. Two of the primary reasons are the global financial crisis and the economic impact of the Christchurch earthquakes. When the employment market gets tough, it gets tough for employers, and the follow-on for that is employees. Who is right at the bottom of that ladder? Unfortunately, it is young people who lack the skills and lack the work experience, and they are often most hard hit when times are tough. This is not unique to this Government\u2014this is not unique at all. This is something that you clearly see evidence of when times get tough, so we have to meet that challenge. When employers are struggling, the reality is that they have to sail closer to the breeze; their margins are less. So what do they do? They look at ways in which they can be innovative and ensure that they can produce the products that will yield the profits that help them employ and grow their business. When you have youngsters who lack experience, who lack the job skills, and who lack even a simple work ethic that often only comes when people are in work, and then you have employers looking to take someone on, and on balance they have someone who has more skills, who has a work track record, and who has experience, the choice becomes a very easy one for an employer. What we need to do, what is incumbent on members in this House, is ensure that employers have the appropriate incentives, have the appropriate assistance, to give those young people a chance. That is exactly what this bill is about\u2014it is exactly what this bill is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EI know that members on the other side of the House agree with this, because one Darien Fenton in 2007 was on record, on Hansard, saying this: \u201Cthe inexperience of first-time workers or new entrants deserves the recognition of a short period while the new worker becomes more socialised to work.\u201D They deserve the recognition of a short period while the new worker becomes more socialised to work. Well, I thank the member Darien Fenton for agreeing on what this bill is about, and I commend this bill. We have heard the Opposition saying this is classic National Party. Well, you know what? The classic Labour Party\u2019s failed socialist ideology is why it is there, and this National Government is getting on with what needs to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u002278e7b48c490247718e999990e8217e4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278e7b48c490247718e999990e8217e4c\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to oppose this bill, the Minimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill. New Zealand First opposes this bill because it is an out and out attack on young people\u2014the vulnerable young workers who are at just the beginning of their working careers. Cheap labour is not the silver bullet to create jobs, which are vanishing every day under this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E More tax, lower wages\u2014that seems to be the way of this National Government. It has raised GST after saying that it would not, inflicting pain on those people on fixed incomes. Then it has gone and taxed paper boys, another set of young workers. And here it is again, launching an attack on our young workers. This is obviously not a Government that is intent on solving the big issues. Job creation for all New Zealanders must be the primary focus of the Government, and this bill will not provide additional jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House we are quite concerned for older workers. It is hard enough for anybody over the age of 50 to get a job anyway, so how stable will their jobs be? We have heard from the other side of the House that these are hard times for employers. Mike Sabin said that. It is easy for some employers to employ young people at a far cheaper rate, particularly in these hard times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWith this piece of legislation the National Government shows how totally disconnected it is from the harsh realities that are faced by most of our vulnerable young workers. It is really a slap in the face to those young workers. This bill does not affect just teenagers earning a bit of extra pocket money while they are living at home with their parents. Many of them will not have financial support from their families, at all. Some of these affected people will for all intents and purposes be independent or trying to be independent. So how are these independent young people any different from people a couple of years older than them? Will these people get a 20 percent discount on their rent? Perhaps a 20 percent discount on their electricity bills? Or even their groceries? No, they certainly will not, definitely not on their petrol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223abde64b6f554ee2b3ef0db5da454138\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Could be the \u201CYoungerGold Card\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aaf31987b4f4cb4bc3c3ec6b6f569f3\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps we will have to have a \u201CYoungGold Card\u201D. You never know\u2014we could perhaps come up with that. The passing of this legislation is definitely going to make all of these people\u2019s lives 20 percent harder. Their living costs are exactly the same as other, older New Zealanders\u2019 living costs, so why is this Government so intent on kicking young workers into the gutter, especially at a time when people are struggling? In the last year alone we have seen the number of young people looking for work increase from 80,000 to 90,000\u201490,000 young people not in work or any form of training. It is a real disgrace and a sad indictment on this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIf we are not careful, New Zealand will see a bubble of young people going out into the world without any real work experience. What a total waste of a young, vital resource that we need here in this country. I do not believe that we should be sending these people off to Australia in ever-increasing numbers. This piece of legislation is not going to help young people, despite Mr Auchinvole laughing and smiling about it. This piece of legislation will not encourage young people to go out and seek work. If anything, it really encourages them to give up. By the time young people have paid to travel to work in their cars, because petrol is not cheap, they are worse off than they would be if they were on welfare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ESo where is the incentive for these young people to try to find these nonexistent jobs? And what exactly is the rationale for this change? Where is the demand? Well, the Government is claiming that the bill will create more jobs, but we have not seen any valid statistics to back up this claim. It claims that reducing the minimum wage for one sector of the population is going to create more jobs. The truth is that this bill will not create more jobs. It is just another hurdle for young people trying to stay afloat in these pressing economic times. We all know that prices are increasing dramatically in every part of the economy. With this piece of legislation this Government is ignoring the plight of hard-working young New Zealanders. It treats them as second-class citizens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIt is a bit like a Back to the Future piece of legislation. We have seen it before. Within living memory it was women who were allowed to be paid less than men for exactly the same work, but, fortunately, those days are passed. We know that it is totally unacceptable to pay one sector of the population a lower wage. It is illegal discrimination. It is very concerning to see ideologically driven policies emerging that would once again treat one part of the labour force worse than the rest. Youth rates will not encourage employers to create additional jobs. It is a sad reality that under this Government there are families who rely on their children working in order to be able to make ends meet. This is the harsh reality for many families\u2014young people working after school, bringing the money home so that the families can actually make ends meet. So what good will this change bring to them? What good is it going to do? It is simply going to make their lives harder. And, as my colleague Asenati Lole-Taylor said, M\u0101ori and Pacific Island families will find it very, very challenging. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EBefore we came into this House I had the opportunity, thanks to my colleague, to find a good quote from someone whom we more than likely all know of. He is a very successful businessman called Robert Bosch. We no doubt have got dishwashers and fridges in our homes that bear his name. He said: \u201CI don\u2019t pay good wages because I have a lot of money; I have a lot of money because I pay good wages.\u201D I think that is a very good message there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First believes that all people, irrespective of age, should be given equal pay for equal work. We believe that this Government is now on a very slippery slope. With this bill the Government takes another step towards a low-wage economy. If this Government believes that reducing the minimum wage for some people will create more jobs, perhaps it is keen to abolish it entirely. Is that part of the plan too? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is disappointed with this bill, and, quite honestly, we cannot support it. We have listened to the National members of the House speaking, listening for good reasons to support this legislation, but, sorry, we have not heard any to make us change our mind. Where is this brighter future that National promised us? We keep looking and waiting and looking and waiting, but to no avail. The future looks very gloomy for some people, and particularly for young people. The horizon is not bright for them. New Zealand First will not be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u0022906d6147d5844be1919e4712602e8f9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022906d6147d5844be1919e4712602e8f9a\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise with pride to support the Minimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill, introduced by the Minister of Labour, the Hon Simon Bridges. My goodness me! We have just heard from Barbara Stewart, who is always a very pleasant person, but my goodness me, the response to this bill reminds me of that line from Shakespeare: \u201CMethinks she doth protest too much.\u201D I cannot see where the problem is. Where is the problem with providing opportunities for young people to get into work and off the dole? Where is the problem with giving young people a job, instead of being on welfare? Those members would rather they stay on welfare. They would rather they did not have a job. Do the Labour Party or the Green Party not like young people? Because that is the only conclusion we can come to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EIs the real reason, lurking in the depths of the Labour Party mind, to protect the union-established hierarchy of employment practice? I think that is the case. We heard Mr Goff give it voice. We heard Mr Goff say: \u201CThis will lead to job displacement.\u201D That is the real reason. Andrew Little was right up there behind him, saying: \u201CWe\u2019ve got to protect existing jobs.\u201D National does like young people and does want to help them. This bill is pro-youth, pro-employment, and pro-opportunity. I honestly commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd25bb5c4c54474eacd0d63723d58b3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd25bb5c4c54474eacd0d63723d58b3b\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This day, sadly, will go down in history as the day that the Government officially gave up on young people\u2014the day that the National Government officially gave up on young people\u2014and the day that the Government, the National Government, officially gave up on the brighter future. This bill, the Minimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill, does both of those things. It gives up on young people. It says that they are not worthy of a fair day\u2019s pay for a fair day\u2019s work. It says that this country is not going to have the brighter future that that Government promised in two consecutive elections and still has not delivered on. This bill is the reason why. Government members think that actually lowering wages is the way forward for this country. Lowering wages, for whatever group in our society that may be, is a downward economic spiral and it is going in the wrong direction to where this country needs to go. When wages are lowered\u2014in this instance, for those people aged 15 to 19\u2014workers have less money to spend. If they have less money to spend, then there is less work in our economy. When money is not being spent, then we have fewer jobs in our economy, not more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI think that that is where this Government has got it so wrong. It is a very basic economic theory. It is not hard to understand. It has been proven time and time again that a high-wage, high-skill economy is the way forward for countries like New Zealand. When we have high wages in our country, then spending occurs and the whole economy lifts up. That is how work is created\u2014there is a demand driven up because people have money to spend. If people have their spending power reduced, then that is the path to economic decline. That is exactly what this Government is up to. It has also given up pretending that this piece of legislation creates jobs. Even the Government itself, when it started out on the first reading of this bill, argued that this was going to create jobs. But Government members have all stopped arguing even that, because it is plainly ridiculous\u2014plainly ridiculous\u2014to keep up the pretence that cutting wages creates jobs. It does no such thing. In fact, as I have just demonstrated, it actually reduces the number of jobs available in our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI want to give some very real information to the House about where the real problem exists. In the Waikato Times 2 days ago, on the front page, the banner headlines screamed out to people in the Waikato \u201CJobless fight for work\u201D. That is the true reflection of where that Government has got this country. The jobless are indeed fighting for work. What that story detailed was that in the Waikato the number of people on the unemployment benefit increased by 33 percent between September and December last year alone\u201433 percent more unemployed people in the Waikato region just in the last 3 months of last year. If you compared those unemployment figures in the Waikato with December 2008, there is a massive 65.9 percent more people getting the unemployment benefit in the Waikato now than there were in December 2008. That is what the real problem is. It is not the amount of wages being paid to young people. It is the absolute dearth of jobs available in our economy. And until the Government gets real, fixes the real problem, stops blaming young people for their plight, and starts looking at itself in the mirror about its lack of a plan, we are going to continue to struggle as a country. It is, sadly, the day that the Government gave up on young people, and the day that the Government gave up on a brighter future for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI think that when the new Minister Simon Bridges came into his new role as Minister of Labour\u2014it was a significant promotion for him\u2014there was a lot of hope that he might bring a new, young, shiny approach to National Party policy in that portfolio. But what this shows is that he is just following the same tired, old, lazy policies of every National Government that has ever been in power in this country. Every time we have a National Government in power\u2014it does not matter what part of the economic cycle we are in, whether we are in a recession, whether we are in good times, or whether we are in the middle of that cycle\u2014it always has the same tired, old approach, the same lazy answer to what it wants for New Zealanders. And what it wants for New Zealanders is low wages. It has proven that time and time again. Every single time, that has been its formula. This time it thinks it can get away with it under the cover of a recession, but if you look historically, it shows that every single time we have had a National Government in place it has gone after workers\u2019 wages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThis time it is using the cover of high youth unemployment. It says that because young workers are overrepresented in the unemployment figures, therefore the solution is to actually discriminate against them by having lower wages. Well, what is to stop this Government from using exactly that same theory when it comes to M\u0101ori workers, who are also overrepresented in the unemployment figures? Is it going to use the same justification? Is it going to say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273ec33f48c814b35b87c3461e7d77a82\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: They should.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b0fc13447154d21940917efea8c9c98\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. That is where its argument leads us. Is it going to say that M\u0101ori should get only 80 percent of the minimum adult wage? Because that is exactly the argument that it is using for young people. Pacific Island workers are also overrepresented in the unemployment figures. Is Simon Bridges going to have the same solution for those workers as well? Because if National applies its failed thinking for young workers across the whole\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2d0364b693645a59568dd59dfc0e4e4\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s very different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dae5cc7559740c6b47bf7f251e287f3\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Simon Bridges says that it is very different. I will be interested to know why it is very different, because the only argument that this Government is putting forward is that it has failed young workers. They are overrepresented in the unemployment figures, so therefore the Government has to actually lower their wages. The Government has also spent its time talking down young people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb37f0877aa42b3aef4cc4bf52a7127\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212d94efbb92d4ab8a4c9220e6d09abff\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, according to Mike Sabin\u2014if the Minister listened to his contribution to this debate\u2014they all lack skills. All 15 to 19-year-olds lack skills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e81f7d9bde6409eb90f06db35ab2365\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t say \u201Call\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200094bab413849d4a97db75ab979958e\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, now he is saying that he didn\u2019t say \u201Call\u201D, but the only thing he had to say about young workers and their contribution to the workplace was to denigrate them, say that they lack skills, and say that they lack experience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThe Government has no understanding of the value of young people. That is why it is quite happy for the youth of this country to be exported to places like Australia, because it does not understand the value of young workers to this country, to their families, and to this economy. It is no wonder we are losing our brightest and best\u2014our young, bright future\u2014to Australia. That is where they are headed under this Government. This piece of legislation will make that departure happen at much faster rates. Families will lose their young people to Australia because there is no brighter future for them in New Zealand under a National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e77c96a9d15348a891eb3a734c7f5584\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e77c96a9d15348a891eb3a734c7f5584\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great pleasure to take a brief call in the third reading of the Minimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill. This is a bill that improves the chances of our young people to gain skills. It improves the chances of our young people to gain experience. It improves the chances of our young people to earn money, find a sense of purpose and a feeling of belonging, and find the dignity of work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EWe do have challenges around youth unemployment, which we are addressing at a number of levels. Youth unemployment is unacceptably high for this Government, and we are working in many different areas to bring it down. Looking at the global picture, of course, we are doing a lot better than most economies around the world. Recent figures that came out just today add emphasis to that fact, coupled with the imprimatur of the IMF just a few days earlier about how this economy is tracking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EThe Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment suggested that this bill will help 2,000 sixteen to 19-year-olds into the workforce in the next 2 years\u20142,000 more of our young people in work. I commend my colleague Chris Auchinvole\u2019s comment and will repeat it for the House. This bill is pro-youth. This bill is pro-work. This bill is pro-opportunity. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002253585fb45966495087ad11ac317b0c43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253585fb45966495087ad11ac317b0c43\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Split call\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9fe8717c37b474a83da5bc15d639220\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9fe8717c37b474a83da5bc15d639220\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to give a short contribution to the third reading of this bill, the Minimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill. Three words came to mind when listening to the speech from Cam Calder, before me, and they are \u201Chumbug\u201D, \u201Cpoppycock\u201D, and \u201Cnot true\u201D. Labour believes in the dignity of work. We in this party here believe also in the living wage, and because this bill undermines the living wage and because this bill attacks the dignity of work, Labour opposes this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EM\u0101ngere, my electorate, has the youngest population of any other community throughout New Zealand. With 30.4 percent of our people aged 15 years and under, we are ranked No. 1. If you add the age group of 15 to 19-year-olds, that whole collective becomes 39 percent. For that reason I promote M\u0101ngere as the gateway to the nation, the land of the young, beautiful, and gifted. That statement expresses a desire by our parents that we have great hope for our young people. We see them as the future leaders of this particular country. For that reason, Labour has a plan that is different from what this Government proposes. We want to produce the future leaders of this country through education, through skills development, through opportunities, and through higher wages\u2014not the kind of future this Government is building for our young people. Government members want our young people to become used to second-best rates. They want our young people to become used to low wages. Labour\u2019s plan is to create wealth through innovation, to ensure that our young people are earning while they are learning. New Zealand parents right now are doing it tough under this particular Government. The future is bleak for hard-working families across this nation, the majority of them wanting to believe what they were promised\u2014the brighter future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EBut, alas, 72,000 young Kiwis aged between 18 and 30 have left this country for Australia because they see that as the country of opportunity, the country where they can get ahead while this Government is here. It promised all of New Zealand a brighter future. I want to ask Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga and Alfred Ngaro: where is the brighter future in paying workers low wages? Where is the brighter future for Pacific communities when those members continue to support low wages for workers? I do not hear a response from that side, so they are content to drive wages below. They are content to make sure that our young people\u2014the future of this country\u2014become used to low pay and second-best. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ESince this Government has come into power it has presided over the worst economic period in 51 years, the worst and highest unemployment numbers in 13 years, and 175,000 people without jobs. The report of the Salvation Army that was released not too long ago identified that we have got people who are on the unemployment benefit and cannot find jobs, because this Government continues to sit on its hands. The future for New Zealand families has to be about high-value jobs, it has to be about full employment, even, it has to be about skills, and it has to be about high wages. John Key has failed our young people. John Key has failed to deliver for young people\u201430,000 under-20-year-olds are not in education, not in employment, and not in training. That is more than 4,000 since that Government came into power, and if we include the age group of 20 to 24-year-olds, that becomes 90,000 people not in education, not in employment, and not in training. The Government simply acknowledging that there is a problem is not fixing it. It has got to fix it. It has got to fix it, but it is content to drive wages down. It is not prepared to do anything, so Mr Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga, where is the brighter\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a601a94d56d04986adf63ad37268170a\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga. The member\u2019s time has expired, but there is a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u002243646974593645b6969e8a8b82e05d4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243646974593645b6969e8a8b82e05d4f\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I know the sound system is not working, but we are not far from Mr Sio. He does not need to shout in this Chamber in order to get a little bit of attention for the man. So, please, just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e92cce93e354ecabb5b0929a7acc1df\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure that the sound will be adjusted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u002223cdad0677824502934cfb0f68b17df8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223cdad0677824502934cfb0f68b17df8\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Deputy Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. It is good that this House is looking at youth unemployment. It is the right question that we are asking, but what we have in front of us, the Minimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill, is clearly the wrong answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI am proud to stand to oppose this bill\u2014this flawed, ideological, and discriminatory bill. It is flawed because the entire premise is wrong. Cutting wages does not create jobs. Cutting wages does not encourage people into work. I have not heard a single economic report or a single piece of economic research being quoted by the Government members. The fact is that there is limited research. In fact, the research is strongly in the other side of the camp, which says that higher wages do encourage work. We saw it in New Zealand when the Green Party ended discriminatory youth rates in the mid-2000s, and it had no impact. If anything, more young people were in work. So it is flawed, the premise is wrong, and it is ideological. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe know it is plainly ideological, because the regulatory impact statement says as much, and because there were no alternatives canvassed by officials. It is ideological, because it is 1990s thinking in 2013. The Government\u2019s whole plan for the economy is to cut wages and to make us even more of a low-wage, high-work economy. Mr English said as much on competitiveness. John Key said he would be fine with seeing wages drop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThis is not the way to build our jobs and our economy. All it is doing is ideologically supporting a small\u2014and I mean a very small\u2014number of some employers who see their future in cutting wages and flicking workers off. It is flawed, it is ideological, and it is discriminatory. It is clearly discriminatory because it is picking on one group. This bill targets 16 to 17-year-olds and sets up two types of employment in New Zealand: those 16 and 17-year-olds who are paid a discriminatory rate, and those 18 and 19-year-olds who have been on the benefit and will also get a discriminatory rate. So it is flawed, ideological, and discriminatory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn fact, I would call it nasty. The Government did not look at the alternatives, and now we know from an Official Information Act request, as well, that even the Ministry of Education advised against it because it is contrary to the Government\u2019s own education goals. But I would also contend that from the Government\u2019s perspective it is counter-productive, because this sends a terrible message to young people that they are second-class citizens who should be earning less. It sends a message to employers to flick off young people after 90 days so that they can keep paying their workers at the discriminatory lower rate. But also for all New Zealand workers, be they aged under 20 years or above, it is driving down wages across the entire New Zealand economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EAgain it goes back to that flawed approach to the economy. The way to build prosperity and growth in jobs is not about reducing wages and working conditions through 90-day trials and picking on paper boys and paper girls, as in the last Budget, and it is not about damaging the environment and racing other countries to see who can cram as many cows as possible in a paddock. That is not our future. That is not a way to provide solutions for the 90,000 young people who are right now, today, not in employment or training\u2014at similar rates to Spain and other countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E What young Kiwis and our economy need is a plan for jobs, a plan for sustainable prosperity. Every week we get bad news. We see Mainzeal Property and Construction and Solid Energy\u2014and Telecom might be on the cusp of losing 1,500 jobs. We have lost 30,000-plus jobs in manufacturing. Kiwis want to hope. They want a vision. They want a plan. That is what we went with to the election in 2012: a plan to create 100,000 green jobs. This is the way the future is going. This is where capital investment trends are going. It is what the influential business leaders are saying. They said we could see 50,000 jobs in clean energy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI was at the Wind Energy Association conference last night. Its plan for 3,500 megawatts of wind electricity would deliver 1,500 jobs for New Zealand. What we know from the oil and gas report\u2014the industry Minister Bridges was quite happy to subsidise to the tune of $130,000\u2014was that this industry could see, in the most likely scenario, 199 jobs. Yet this region lost 910 jobs in the first 3 years of this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EUnder National we are going backwards. Kiwis want real solutions. That is why we are working with Labour and the other parties on the manufacturing inquiry. That is why we are supporting employers and exporters. That is why we are promoting information and communications, which was up 17 percent in the last year. It has grown $3 billion in the last 2 years. That is why we are putting forward our innovative proposals for a second cable, greater training and education incentives, sensible patent reform, and better Government procurement. And that is why we are looking at clean energy options and the 50,000 jobs we are seeing there, and the $600 million we could be saving per annum, and the Greenpeace report\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002273f33f43af52412cbba06fc9f7d8afdb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273f33f43af52412cbba06fc9f7d8afdb\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3ac6e51609d47d6809c697d537702df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3ac6e51609d47d6809c697d537702df\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E \u201CMore good news\u201D was, I think, a phrase that my colleagues in a previous generation used to say. The Minimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill is good news, and why it is good news is because National believes in young people. People listening out there today would have been hearing all these terrible things about youth. In fact, it was not National saying any of it; it has been the Opposition. National believes in young people. Young people in New Zealand, we believe you have an opportunity. We believe you can develop the skills and develop the experience to be a positive contributor to this country. You know what? This National Government is not going to keep obstacles in the way. If providing a slightly lower wage allows an employer to make the choice of you, a young person, over another, then, yes, this Government is prepared to back you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThis is a positive bill. This is good news. Young people of New Zealand, this is an opportunity that the Government is providing for employers to employ you\u2014sorry, not you, Mr Deputy Speaker, but youth; yes, let us put a \u201Ct\u201D and an \u201Ch\u201D at the end of that\u2014and to actually get an opportunity over 6 months. I pointed out the other day when we went through the Committee stage that the Opposition was attempting to argue from principle, but it, of course, has its own youth\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022230c0599493243e6b7068668171af97e\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Who chose that tie?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231c700801c0f41e9ade7ad637aba0038\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I believe you might have a similar one, Chris; maybe we could have a cross-party discussion here. This is an opportunity, though, for young people. We believe in young people. We believe they should get into jobs. We want to support them. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d292b81d2cbd42bc896583b1b53e9474\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Minimum Wage (Starting-out Wage) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b06f245df1f84bc085a684081b4b9023\u0022\u003EFamilies Commission Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224d9715f549594881bde89ec08117a64b\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u002203e90d1b3e31446db851a3c871827074\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203e90d1b3e31446db851a3c871827074\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS (Associate Minister for Social Development) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for Social Development: I move, That the Families Commission Amendment Bill be now read a second time. This bill amends the Families Commission Act 2003 and is part of the process designed to refocus the Families Commission in order to make it a more relevant, effective, and efficient organisation. We are streamlining the commission\u2019s core activities through a leaner and more focused structure, as part of our confidence and supply agreement with United Future. I wish to thank it them for its contributions and these changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe changes provided for in the bill are relatively straightforward and can be summarised as follows. First, the commission will acquire a new monitoring, research, and evaluation function. This will encompass the whole social sector and be separate from the commission\u2019s current main function of advocating for families. Under this, the commission will identify evidence and research that will assist in determining or achieving the Government\u2019s policies and priorities in the social sector. The commission will also play a role in coordinating research and evaluation across the wider social sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003ESecond, the bill changes the commission\u2019s governance structure by removing the title \u201Ccommissioner\u201D from all but one member of the commission, who will be known as the Families Commissioner. It puts the commission on the same footing as most other Crown entities, and will ensure a more focused structure. Thirdly, the bill also provides for the creation of a social science experts panel. This group will complement the work of the commission\u2019s board, and provide guidance and academic peer review of research undertaken by or for the commission. This will ensure that all research is rigorous and credible. Finally, the bill will require that the commission prepares and publishes an annual family status report. This will provide a means by which the well-being of New Zealand families can be regularly measured and monitored. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI would like to thank the Social Services Committee for its thorough and careful attention to this bill. A total of 11 submissions were received on the bill. A number of submitters were positive about the new model of the Families Commission. The Salvation Army, the National Council of Women, and the IHC all support the changes and the new function for monitoring, research, and evaluation. The IHC pointed to the huge potential advantage of the new\u2014to be known\u2014SuPERU database to avoid research silos, and the Salvation Army is particularly interested in joining projects in partnership with the Families Commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThere have been some recommended technical amendments from the Social Services Committee, and the committee recommended including new clauses 4A and 9A. This addresses some submitters\u2019 concerns based on a misinterpretation of the bill\u2019s provisions and relevant Crown entity legislation. These clauses make it clear that the autonomy of the commission as prescribed in the Crown Entities Act 2004 remains unchanged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe committee also recommended changes to new section 8A in clause 7. These changes make it clear that the commission is to actively \u201Cidentify evidence and research that will assist in determining or achieving the Government\u2019s policies and priorities in the social sector.\u201D Other changes make it clear that in carrying out its monitoring, evaluation, and research functions, the commission must act independently of the programmes and interventions being monitored or evaluated. This is an area where I believe the commission can add real value. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EFinally, I wish to comment on the potential of the new SuPERU unit\u2014the monitoring, research, and evaluation arm of the Families Commission. If we\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d636c6fd61124037bc14f34e5dc70c80\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I thought Subaru was a type of car.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a3d8dc3e4af482ea6ac923a5038fba0\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: It has got the wheels, buddy, to do the business. If we are going to make a difference for the families who are struggling, we need to be able to invest in interventions that we know will work. This new unit will build a body of evidence that will allow policy makers, NGOs, and anyone wanting to invest in social services to make informed decisions about which programmes are effective for New Zealand families, which will add real value to the way that we all work together. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1da982fb60b46d39460459773978c76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1da982fb60b46d39460459773978c76\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to rise to give this contribution on the second reading of the Families Commission Amendment Bill. I want to acknowledge the contribution of my colleagues on the Social Services Committee. In particular, I acknowledge Jacinda Ardern and Dr Rajen Prasad, because it was those two who took the lead in Labour\u2019s contribution as this bill was analysed through the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EAs the Associate Minister for Social Development the Hon Chester Borrows said, this bill seeks to amend the Families Commission Act 2003 to make a number of changes to the role and operation of the commission, with the aim of improving decision making in the social sector. Labour supported the first reading of this bill. We wanted it to go to the select committee as we wanted to look closely at the implications of the bill and give the wider community the opportunity to make its submissions and to raise its concerns on this matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EWe understand that one member of the commission would be appointed by the Minister for Social Development as Families Commissioner, while the remaining members would remain members without being appointed commissioners, as they are at present. The Families Commission members would continue to comprise the board. The restructure would include the establishment of a social science experts panel to provide guidance and academic peer review of any research undertaken by, and on behalf of, the commission. The commission would also be given a new monitoring, evaluation, and research function, which would require it to determine where evidence and research would help decide, or achieve, Government priorities and to commission research and manage research contracts in the social sector. The commission would also be required to prepare and publish an annual Families Status Report, which would measure and monitor the well-being of New Zealand families. It would also be given access by the Government Statistician to individual schedules for research or statistical purposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EAfter the select committee process, and in consideration of what we heard from submitters, Labour now opposes this bill. Labour believes that the changes proposed to the commission in this bill continue an agenda to fundamentally alter its nature so that it becomes something close to a Government department or ministry, rather than being an autonomous Crown entity. These changes, in our view, compromise the commission and will limit its independence and ability to advocate effectively for families. Given these changes, Labour stands by its policy of disestablishing the commission and, instead, establishing a ministry for children to focus on policies and programmes that place children and families at the centre of all policy and ensure their interests are paramount. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI think that when we considered the significant submissions that came from the public, the one that stood out in my mind was the submission by the Salvation Army, and, more particularly, it was reaffirmed in its report She\u2019ll be Right. One cannot help but recognise that we have a huge problem amongst the children of New Zealand. In fact, the figures show that unless we actively have the political will to address the poverty that is experienced by many families, we are just not going to get on top of it. So, in Labour\u2019s view, establishing a ministry for children would enable a greater focus of energy, resourcing, and political will in attempting to address this issue, recognising that the issue of the safety and the well-being of our children has to be a priority for the long term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThis bill before us limits the advocacy function of the commission and establishes a centre for family and wh\u0101nau knowledge within the commission to focus on consultations and advocacy. It is unclear to us why Peter Dunne is supporting this bill, given that the Government is curbing the role and independent nature of the commission. The funding for this function is predetermined at $3.8 million per annum, but this centre is given the additional function of producing an annual Families Status Report, which measures and monitors the well-being of New Zealand families. Arguably, this could be done by the Ministry of Social Development. This function is likely to be the dominant focus of the commission\u2019s advocacy function and will take up a big chunk of the funding if it is done well. It is likely that there will be little focus on the more general advocacy role of the commission. The amendment bill stipulates that the commission\u2019s consultations with families will be limited to its advocacy functions. Hence its research and evaluation function will not benefit from the views of family generally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe bill also establishes a social policy evaluation and research unit within the commission, with a predetermined annual budget of $3.55 million. This unit will provide independent monitoring and evaluation of programmes and intervention in the social sector, and provide research into key issues, programmes, and interventions across the sector. This section has the additional functions of identifying opportunities where evidence of research will assist in achieving the Government\u2019s priorities in the social sector, commissioning research on behalf of the Government, and managing contracts\u2014again, on behalf of Government. This will be closely linked to what the Government is doing and thus eliminate the independence of the commission to undertake research it considers necessary\u2014for example, research into poverty and financial literacy, research into paid parental leave, and research into family violence: research into all the areas that our community has identified are important in order for us to address this issue adequately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe bill significantly alters the governance arrangements of the commission. There will be only one Families Commissioner, who will not necessarily be the chair of the board of the Families Commission. Others on the board will be members. The functions of the Families Commission will be determined by the board. The chief executive officer position is retained. In addition, a social science experts panel will be appointed by the Minister and the Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Advisor to peer review the commission\u2019s evaluation and provide advice. Currently the commission uses peer reviewers from universities, other research centres, and independent experts. It is difficult to see how a panel of four people can peer review the range of research that might be undertaken. Once again, arguably, the commission will be acting like a Government department or ministry, focusing on the issues that the Government considers important. We question the need for this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThis is, in our view, a confused governance structure. The power effectively lies with its chief executive, as the Families Commissioner\u2019s sole role is redundant. It is unclear who will set the work programme for the commission: the Minister, the Government, the advisory panel, the Families Commissioner, the chief executive, or the senior staff of the commission. The advocacy functions of the commission will be seriously limited as it will be preoccupied with reporting annually on the state of families. This is something the social report used to do yearly, and which will be produced only every 3 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ERecently there was an example where my colleague Sue Moroney promoted a very successful campaign around paid parental leave\u2014a campaign that was picked up and supported by the majority of New Zealanders, which this Government does not like. But the commission abandoned its role as an independent commission and agreed with the Government on paid parental leave solely based on the economic cost rather than evidence-based policy assessment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThat gives you an example that this Government, rather than allowing the commission to independently provide evidence-based advice\u2014as the commission was set up to do\u2014wants to be able to control the commission. I think the Government is on the wrong path. The right path is the Labour Party policy of disestablishing the commission and establishing instead a ministry for children. That then gives the Government and us\u2014this House\u2014a greater focus of energy and resources on addressing the issues of children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8cc06d3b8ff46558bebb0fcd58f538c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8cc06d3b8ff46558bebb0fcd58f538c\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak; I thought that guy would be speaking until 7 tonight, but I thank Su\u2019a William Sio for his contribution. I just want to say that it is a pleasure to rise to speak on this second reading of the Families Commission Amendment Bill. I just want to, first, thank the Minister for Social Development, the Hon Paula Bennett. Yesterday we acknowledged her role and her legacy in terms of the welfare reforms that she has brought to this Parliament, which will have a huge positive impact on our country. Today we are going to acknowledge her contribution in terms of this legislation, because the Families Commission is about to undergo a welcome transformation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E The reason it will be transformed is that this Government, this National Government, believes in better, more effective public services. What does that mean? What are we going to do? Well, the Associate Minister for Social Development Chester Borrows touched on it earlier. We are restructuring the commission because this will see its core activities streamlined into a leaner, more focused structure. It will be headed by a single commissioner, and the search for that single commissioner is going on as we speak. The number of commissioners will go down from the original number of seven. That is right\u2014less bureaucracy in one fell swoop. It will be governed by a board, and the board will include Professor Sir Peter Gluckman. It will also have public sector, philanthropic, and business representatives, and it will give credible community input into\u2014[Interruption] Oh! Asenati Lole-Taylor knows this\u2014the direction of an important entity in our Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EFor the benefit of Parliament, I say that yesterday we had the financial review of the Families Commission. We had some valuable contributions from the acting chairman and the acting chief executive officer, as well as Sir Peter, who turned up to elaborate on the future of this commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe commission will also commission and contract social sector research on topics referred by the Government. I know my colleague Su\u2019a William Sio referred to the lack of independence, but it really is important that some of the research done actually becomes implemented and becomes part of the Budget-setting process for the Government, so that those things can make a difference to people out in our communities. There is no point in having research sitting on a shelf in the Wellington office of some policy analyst in one of the Government departments. It is really important that we have this type of research out in the open, read by many, distributed across many sectors, and implemented by those who are able to do the implementation, which includes Government officials and politicians alike. So the commission will take on a new role providing independent monitoring, evaluation, and research to measure the effectiveness of initiatives across our social sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E Labour doubts this, but we were left in no doubt on this side of the House by the testimony of Sir Peter Gluckman yesterday at the financial review that it is about independence. It is about evidence-based research that will be implemented in our communities through policy. So funding will be reduced from $32 million over 4 years to $28 million, and $14 million will be reprioritised for the social policy evaluation and research unit, which some people call SuPERU. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EBefore I finish my contribution tonight I just want to touch on the recommendations of the Social Services Committee, which the Minister also alluded to. I want to thank all the members of the committee for their contributions, Dr Prasad and those across the aisle, and also my colleagues, like Alfred Ngaro and Melissa Lee, who is the deputy chair, and the other members of our committee. Even though there were a small number of submitters\u2014there were 11\u2014we actually gleaned quite a bit of feedback and we made certain adjustments. Also, I want to acknowledge our officials, parliamentary counsel, and our clerks, who were also part of the team, if you like, that brought these recommendations back to the House. I want to acknowledge them, and they are with us here tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EJust very quickly, we are amending clause 11 to ensure that the social science experts panel will comprise a minimum of four members\u2014a minimum of four, Su\u2019a. I know he criticised the figure, but it is a minimum of four members, and we changed it to allow for a degree of flexibility to appoint additional members if required. So we have allowed for that degree of flexibility in our recommendations. It is also about amending clause 11 to ensure that the panel would come under appropriate provisions pertaining to the appointment and payment of members, conflicts of interest, indemnities, and insurance. So that is another important addition to the bill as presented to the House at its first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E The Minister referred to amending clause 7. It is really about correcting the misconception that the commission will merely identify opportunities for evaluation and research. It will be actively identifying these opportunities. I think that is an important consideration when we move forward in terms of those subjects that will be identified. Yesterday the commission went through some of those. Some involved improving the achievement levels of M\u0101ori and Pasifika children. There is a whole host of these subjects that it is seeing as priorities going forward. If we are going to make a difference for the families in this country, Aotearoa New Zealand, who are struggling, we need to be able to invest in interventions that we know will work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe body of evidence that will come out of this commission will allow policy makers, service providers, politicians, and anyone wanting to invest in our social services to make better, more informed decisions. It is about having an evidence base, as Sir Peter Gluckman referred to at our financial review of the commission yesterday. It is about those evidence-based interventions that produce better long-term outcomes for our families, our communities, and, ultimately, our nation. That is why I support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022 data-id=\u00224f876967ad60404cb6142d3413986d00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f876967ad60404cb6142d3413986d00\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am very interested in what the member opposite, Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga, has just said. The member talked about the legacy of the Minister for Social Development. It is very interesting that we had the Families Commission before the Social Services Committee yesterday, and now we are talking about this legacy. Let me tell the chairman of that committee that there is daylight between how the Minister conceives this commission and how the commission presented itself yesterday. There is daylight in that\u2014absolute daylight. Just putting a small number of very well-known researchers on to the commission will not make an efficient commission in the sense that the Minister thinks it will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003ELet us take just one of the things that this Minister is presiding over, and I look forward to hearing what the explanations are. Yesterday we found out about the commission in this manifestation spending $411,000 on one staff member for 17 months\u2014$411,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fb5cdb2b9ed42869251bf83221d37ef\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: That sounds like the sort of thing that used to happen under the Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f566b3ed6a264eb18d75fd1684d21da8\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: Is the member supporting this? Is the Hon Mr Bridges supporting this? Because if the member is, then that Government has got a lot of work to do to find out about all of the consultants who are being used. That is what this commission has been driven to: bringing people from Australia, who then establish their own consultancy company, and then their own consultancy company gets hired\u2014hiring the same person back to the commission and spending $411,000. That is what this Minister is presiding over at the moment. I know there have been some justifications such as \u201CWe\u2019ve been restructuring.\u201D and \u201CWe\u2019ve been having a look to see.\u201D Well, why is this commission not developing the capacity within the commission? It is not. So there is daylight between what the legacy of this Minister will be and what this commission is set up to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThere is also daylight between how the Minister conceives of the research functions of this commission and how the commissioners described it yesterday. At the moment, it seems it will end up being probably not too different from what it has been evolving to, yet the Minister has couched this in terms of this radical differentiation between what the commission has been set up to do and where she wants it to go. There will not be much difference. There will still be largely\u2014[Interruption] Three million dollars, Mr Bridges, will not give you the kind of research that this Minister wants. The Minister talks about evidence-based research. There is daylight between evidence-based research\u2014that Government is not using the evidence that is currently available. On the \u201Cboot camps\u201D legislation, the research says do not do it. The Minister did it. It is not working. Mr Bridges might like to know about this. It is the same with the welfare reforms that we debated yesterday. The English experience and evidence show that those kinds of sanctions do not work. But, no, the Minister wants to do it. So why is there this daylight between the Minister\u2019s policies\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022081e2b6600b440fc84e0c4846c8ae283\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How much will it cost?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e880c7b872824bfa9df91a8a89164eb8\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in the area of the most vulnerable in our society and the work of the commission, trying to set it up to do the evidential work that it will do? It will produce the reports, and I bet you this Government will not put them into operation. That is what will happen. So now there is this daylight. What is the question the member is asking about costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229439db6cca7c49a28a6661d8b8a27a0f\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How much will it cost?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4cbfe8cd5cf4d82a53820fe92183a17\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, all that your Government is giving for this role, Minister, is $3 million. It cannot be done\u2014cannot be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130321501f5f6e93ce44dc88cccfb3ea5e5a78000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 6 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"