"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022589f235e136a4c6789e6be3739e46876\u0022\u003EThursday, 30 May 2013\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b303b79651e44ff78084ac6e692b3a74\u0022\u003EThursday, 30 May 2013\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022247e4787c2a64606a6b22993b3dd0408\u0022\u003EResignations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2925e65bb5243fc86954c70d5df7f92\u0022\u003EOmbudsman\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00224f3e82d29c4447418e00bc875d0c6293\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f3e82d29c4447418e00bc875d0c6293\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I wish to advise the House that I have received a letter from Dr David McGee CNZM QC, resigning as an Ombudsman with effect from Friday, 31 May 2013.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f65dfd6206154f2998a4f96cd66b0ad7\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002258320ad8735b4e25a24b43c33228069c\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u00223ce8bc4aedb9459fa0658420272022b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ce8bc4aedb9459fa0658420272022b2\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Leader of the House: When the House resumes on Tuesday, 4 June, the Government will look to continue the debate on the Appropriation (2013/14 Estimates) Bill, the third readings of the Land Transport Management Amendment Bill and the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Continuation and Reform) Amendment Bill, and a number of other first and second readings on the Order Paper. On Wednesday, 5 June, effective Thursday, 6 June, and with the agreement of the Business Committee, the House will have extended hours for the third readings of the Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua o Kaipara Claims Settlement Bill and the Waitaha Claims Settlement Bill, and the first reading of the Te Tau Ihu Claims Settlement Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed82aa42f3564454ab1333410f9a424d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed82aa42f3564454ab1333410f9a424d\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Can I just ask the acting Leader of the House whether it is still the Government\u2019s intention to make enough progress on the Budget next week in order to have a members\u2019 day in the following week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u00229b2db31133c44d60886ffb04d8093ec2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b2db31133c44d60886ffb04d8093ec2\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E I was hoping his question would be about the Te Tau Ihu Claims Settlement Bill, which comprises eight settlement bills and the haka redress, which is more than those members did in 9 years. [Interruption] But the answer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5119ce270974ba19559ec83fb6a1fb7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Could the member address the question that is being raised by the Hon Trevor Mallard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf19fed192e7437092e0475e33ab4033\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know; he would have to speak to Mr Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b640f66bcc084e1fbccd874f4e786e7a\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f8077063afd1415bb90311b63fecaacf\u0022\u003EHuman Rights, Cambodia\u2014Leave to Move Motion Without Notice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea2d93a5c70e40fda87d911f3ddaef3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea2d93a5c70e40fda87d911f3ddaef3b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek the leave of the House to introduce without notice and without debate a motion in support of a free and fair election process being followed in Cambodia for the elections this July.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00224accbd18ff86471ca85c09ced74e15e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224accbd18ff86471ca85c09ced74e15e4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to move a motion without debate. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022869657a8ca8842c3b3620247b3901cf4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022869657a8ca8842c3b3620247b3901cf4\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This has been consulted on. Can I ask the acting Prime Minister to speak to the Leader of the House, because he agreed to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u002295d96c68818e49a6a5437dde434081e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295d96c68818e49a6a5437dde434081e0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Listen, leave was put; leave has been denied. That is the end of the matter. [Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f09f507b936c4517a73ad1c74786b562\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022739444e9dbce4bfda25237565c703648\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c825a0d6b5e3479790ed70bcfe4628d2\u0022\u003EBudget 2013\u2014Support for Vulnerable New Zealanders\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u00225993aead882c409e9115047e4eea267d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225993aead882c409e9115047e4eea267d\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: How did the Budget balance the Government\u2019s programme of responsible fiscal management with extra support for vulnerable families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002201649342538e4be09b78cbc535bfaa60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201649342538e4be09b78cbc535bfaa60\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E In the first place, the Government supported New Zealanders through the recession by borrowing to maintain support programmes, because we were confident that even though we were borrowing, we could set a path back to surplus. The Budget also confirmed significant investment in programmes to support vulnerable families. This includes $189 million to assist people from welfare into work through work-focused case management and increased support for job readiness and job searching. The Government is also investing a record $2.9 billion in Housing New Zealand, including 2,000 extra bedrooms on existing houses, and insulating around 46,000 homes for low-income families. This week we announced the KickStart Breakfast programme, which will expand to five mornings a week in decile 1 to 4 schools. High-decile schools can opt in during 2014.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5d4451a52f74939bd2b5950b444022b\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: What other measures were included in Budget 2013 for New Zealanders on lower incomes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dae718b716842649472ab6d7f474826\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The other measures include a combination of existing, proven programmes and new initiatives that are targeted. I want to acknowledge the work of the Hon Tariana Turia and the M\u0101ori Party in this area. This includes $100 million over 3 years for the Warm Up New Zealand programme, targeting low-income households; $21 million over 4 years for rheumatic fever prevention; $1.5 million for budgeting services, on top of the $9 million already provided; a trial in Housing New Zealand properties of a warrant of fitness programme for rental housing; and a whiteware procurement programme to enable beneficiaries to buy new appliances under warranty. The Government is also investigating microfinance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a49485e536654c27bf8989d2c33ec5eb\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government investing to deliver better results in health and education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e82e338385749b39ae75724f50a6ca3\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, too often in health and education more and more money is put in as if more money were an indication of success. In fact, what this Government is doing is focusing on achieving better results for the existing spending and, of course, for any new spending. So there is a total of $5.1 billion in new operating spending over the next 4 years, but the key to the use of that money is targets such as, in health, more elective surgery and better immunisation rates, and, in education, more young New Zealanders achieving National Certificate of Educational Achievement level 2 and achieving the national standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022850101921be94a6196903dfb6a54b42a\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: What steps is the Government taking to further reduce crime and maintain law and order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bed1f188c27445b19e22c23423c79f5c\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: This is another area where the amount of money spent is not a good measure of how safe our communities are. When the Government came into office, justice sector spending was the fastest-rising cost in the Government. So we have set targets for reduced crime rates, and there has been encouraging progress: a 9 percent reduction in total crime and a 7 percent reduction in violent crime. This is coming about from building on a sophisticated analysis of what causes crime in our community, and police, corrections, and the courts working together in an unprecedented manner to make our communities safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d752f5d883441af8ba786e489b1c3bb\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe. Kia ora t\u0101tou. To what extent were Budget decisions to support vulnerable families influenced by the Ministerial Committee on Poverty, which was established as a result of the relationship accord between the M\u0101ori Party and the National Party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7d582c52c074f2aaf90e2662872280f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Ministerial Committee on Poverty played a key role, and in particular the M\u0101ori Party played a key role, because the M\u0101ori Party brought to that committee a strong focus on getting change on the ground rather than more measuring and more strategies. That is reflected in the large number of practical initiatives designed to help those who suffer from the most persistent deprivation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223edcab47f5fc476495cf43437b9f918b\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the M\u0101ori Party that extending breakfasts in schools and investing in KidsCan are not the only solutions to address child poverty; if so, what other priorities does he consider worth exploring?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd443fa0747c4f59bb0850761ea70180\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I do agree with the M\u0101ori Party. In fact, children who are hungry at school is often\u2014as school principals have pointed out to me\u2014a symptom of deeper problems in the family circumstances, rather than simple negligence. The Government has proceeded with the programme because whatever the problems are at home, the children need to be able to learn. In respect of other methods for addressing poverty, we believe that the $189 million going into the active management of up to 40 percent of our beneficiary population will have a significant impact, because it will assist people to get back to work\u2014people who just need a bit of support and guidance and some encouragement to achieve that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bc61a16d3b441148e8d742326db036e\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that both income and asset inequality are rising under National\u2019s management of the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ce6b8fcaa4e459ea2198a83e3d1c932\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There are any number of measures of that particular phenomenon. What I am aware of is that a recession and a weak economy have the biggest impact on those on the lowest incomes and with the least assets. This Government has set out, in the face of very poor economic circumstances in 2008, 2009, and 2010\u2014partly a legacy of the previous Government\u2014to protect the most vulnerable as best we could, and, actually, we have had some success in doing so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d768c67ef793455b970ad7d263ac09e0\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that spending $2 million per annum on food in schools while handing over an additional $40 million to private schools is an example of why inequality is widening in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257ded2bb243144628593ce1ad72db8da\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not. The Labour Party has never understood that every New Zealand child, by right of birth, has a right to a free education, and the money paid to private schools represents the cheapest free education that the Government can procure, because it pays only about 30 percent of the entitlement that every child has. Why does the Labour Party believe that some New Zealanders are not entitled to free education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d14e7e871e88414c848743061082fd44\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Prime Minister that the food in schools programme is \u201Chere to stay\u201D; if so, does that mean that the high level of child poverty under this Government is set to become a permanent feature of New Zealand society?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228cfd86bce5f4cfbbd1c6a986ce1a129\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do agree with the Prime Minister. With respect to levels of child poverty, the biggest puzzle on this issue in the last 15 years is how come it got so high, when the economy was apparently booming under the Labour Government. Despite the fact of the recession, this Government is wrestling with the complex issues of reducing child poverty and is having some success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b1b6709bf054836bd3953f39f29b0d1\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: How many children has Treasury estimated will be lifted out of poverty by this Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd5424b904f64db98ae4de34852efe9a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I do not believe that Treasury has made that estimate directly, but I can tell the member that the $189 million committed to welfare will be spent on assisting, for instance, solo parent families off welfare and into work. And every single child who is in one of those families where the parent gains work will be lifted out of poverty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EQuestion time interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226d217eeb77f54db1bd6a209fb66f7c44\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002214ac82a1aaf94d999f59ff99f83aba5c\u0022\u003EHuman Rights, Cambodia\u2014Electoral Process\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e69d8043b82d4ceb8ff101c5131803c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e69d8043b82d4ceb8ff101c5131803c5\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have now clarified the position about Mr Goff\u2019s motion. He had indeed spoken to the office of the Leader of the House. I regret any inconvenience. It is perfectly proper for him to put his motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022942112cb06674f90a599dcfcd944ce7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022942112cb06674f90a599dcfcd944ce7a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: On that basis, is the member going to seek leave again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c48f9bdb6bc942a3bf44d9062bd937b3\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I will seek leave again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e9993016f1647b593d7f0ed0992d7bd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to move a motion without debate. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00227b19f02a6dc34fc2afaf62de2d38e371\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b19f02a6dc34fc2afaf62de2d38e371\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That this House note the recent report of the United Nations Special Rapporteur on human rights in Cambodia, which addresses the issue of election organisation and makes a number of recommendations in order for Cambodia\u2019s general election in July 2013 to meet international standards for democratic elections and for urgent and long-term reforms to give Cambodians confidence in the electoral process, and calls on the Cambodian Government to hold free and fair elections in 2013 and to ensure that Opposition parties are able to participate fully in Cambodian politics without physical or judicial harassment or intimidation, including Opposition Leader, Sam Rainsy, as recommended by the United Nations Special Rapporteur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EQuestion time resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a6087f353342445b89fc5e6e101bae5b\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002288ecd032010144a7a69b87fc76b85746\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b8a37fe6aa4d468eadbd51723506c640\u0022\u003ECommunity Services\u2014Discontinuation of Community Response Fund\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9d2d6ebee804f068f4f1222e85306aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9d2d6ebee804f068f4f1222e85306aa\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: Do the same needs in the community continue to exist now as they did in 2011 when she extended the life of the Community Response Fund stating \u201Cwe listened to community organisations who were concerned the fund was ending while pressures remained, so we kept it going\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea58a06eeb7c4ab7baa2ca388cf855dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea58a06eeb7c4ab7baa2ca388cf855dc\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Social Development: Of course, some of the needs have not changed, but the context for families has changed. In 2009 when this fund was set up the economy was contracting, the world was facing a systemic financial crisis, and New Zealand was looking at a decade of deficits and ever-rising debt. Those circumstances have all changed. The funding was announced as, and was always intended to be, a one-off fund. The member makes the mistake of thinking that the only way to get results is to spend more money. In fact, the Government is working intensively with the NGO sector to focus more on outcomes and use the money we have much more successfully. I have to say that the NGO sector is playing a very responsible and long-term role in those discussions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f08e918bda0f4d1fa264eb080a1cfc2f\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the south Wairarapa will lose its food bank coordinator as a result of the Community Response Fund coming to an end, a role that has seen more demand in the last 2 years than when she first introduced the fund; if so, what led her to decide that this organisation was no longer in need of support?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298b58bd6ce6942578ef063d216175277\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not aware of that. Of course, I would need to check up on the facts of that matter. We are engaging with NGOs on better ways of ensuring that the significant amounts of money that go into a community such as Wairarapa are used to achieve better outcomes. Too much of the money that goes in is dedicated to administration and fund-raising through large numbers of groups, some of which do not have the capacity they need for the problems they are trying to solve. Those discussions are ongoing. In fact, the total amount of money being paid out to these groups has risen, from $280 million in 2009 to $320 million this year, and that is excluding the Community Response Fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286d1fbdd995a4fe19603de49bd929efe\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that Rainbow Umbrella Charitable Trust, which provides after-school programmes for children and young people with disabilities, will close its doors today because of the end of the Community Response Fund, leaving up to 35 disabled children without specialised care; if so, what led her to decide that this organisation was no longer in need of support?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e151adf00ab14e28b28f42db2c11cb5d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am aware of that one, because it has been, I think, broadcast in the media. The fact is that the Community Response Fund was always very clearly specified as a fund put there in response to the very difficult pressures of recession. Despite the fact that the Community Response Fund has come to an end, overall funding has increased, but, more important, we are working with the NGO sector to get better value for the hundreds of millions that goes into that sector, too much of which is spent on administration and fund-raising. I invite the member to visit some of the projects around the country such as the social sector trials for youth, the child health teams in Whangarei, and the education initiative in Rotorua, which are focused precisely on getting better use of the extensive resources available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d3f1ab6f02b443b8e8ff4df7570a17c\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that Age Concern, which provides professional help each year to 1,500 older people who are abused physically, emotionally, or financially, will lose services in Kait\u0101ia, Rodney, Rotorua, Wairoa, and Marlborough due to the Community Response Fund coming to an end; or is he saying that they spent too much on administration and fund-raising?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6d367dcdae24301b63838bf0cf5611a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not aware of those particular changes. I can only reiterate the points I have made. Firstly, excluding the Community Response Fund, funding through these programmes has increased from $280 million to $320 million over the last 4 years. Secondly, the Community Response Fund was always a short-term fund and no one was misled about that. Thirdly, we are working with the NGO sector to make more effective use of the fragmented funding streams, of which there can be hundreds, into any individual community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022361cd524ae6149c68a64ac0d91cc9c1e\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Does he have any plans to intervene for these organisations and the more than 290 others that will lose funding as a result of the Community Response Fund coming to an end, many of which will close their doors as a result, or is he content to simply blame fund-raising and administration for the fact that core services will be lost as of tomorrow?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b836d0ba6d4b44cbb5bff4c8b102f7b2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, if there are very significant needs here, I am sure the Minister for Social Development would pay some attention to it. But we need to be very clear that the Community Response Fund was always set up as a one-off fund. It was extended in the face of the extended recession. At the same time, we have spent several years working and negotiating with the NGO sector to ensure that we have better public services available to New Zealanders who are in need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ce212acae2f4945a6cc9cefb1b0de5a\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: How much money was cancelled as a result of this Government putting an end to the Pathways to Partnership programme, and how much of that is now no longer going to the community sector as a result of the supposed Community Response Fund being cancelled?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226525aa8e71d44270b50cbfb4d815aaf8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot answer the question as to how much money was funded from Pathways to Partnership, except to say that the Labour Party Opposition\u2019s thinking about social services is clearly anchored very deeply in 2005, when that was first set up. The world has changed. The NGO sector has moved on. There is a much more gritty and responsible discussion going on about how to use our resources more effectively. Far too often, more money is a signal of failure, not success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a6c449e8431243248c0a6d830355848f\u0022\u003EGovernment Financial Position\u2014Debt Forecasts and Management\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u00229572c639812748a59fd4ecdb1aa365e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229572c639812748a59fd4ecdb1aa365e5\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: By how much, in dollar terms, is the Treasury forecasting New Zealand\u2019s external debt to increase between 2012 and 2017 as measured by the net international investment position?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00221e1506b8826a4661a0e0194d66c3e739\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e1506b8826a4661a0e0194d66c3e739\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E As we have said in the Budget, net international liabilities are expected to worsen over the next few years as insurance payouts for Canterbury continue. However, national saving is expected to rise, led by the Government getting its finances in order. In answer to the question, the net international investment position at the end of 2012 showed liabilities of $150 billion. Treasury forecasts this figure will be $206 billion by 2017. The difference is an increase in liabilities of $56 billion. At around 80 percent of GDP, that would still compare favourably with the peak of 85 percent of GDP in 2009, during a period when the economy had been going pretty well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022052fee7bfc284474b74f652dd3841542\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: So is the Minister of Finance telling the House that under his economic plan for New Zealand, our national indebtedness will increase by nearly $60 billion over the next 5 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bd6ac27d13d459783b6972ee9f67fe4\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That is the case, and that will be driven by a number of things, but substantially by growth in business credit as businesses invest in what is clearly now a recovering economy, and through this year it will be one of the better-performing economies in the developed world. You would expect business to be investing, because that is how it will create all the new jobs that are going to be created. But the question is a bit rich coming from the member who is determined that, instead of doing the Government share offer and getting money from New Zealanders\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022895279cde75b4cf8900c2af215e75036\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was not about me; it was about the Government\u2019s financial and economic plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bbbbb0b68de42728b4836a882208b8f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! It is not in order for the member asking the question to then insist on the answer by design. The answer very satisfactorily addressed the question that was raised by the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f28ac13bb4a24a66a7a252677df36e5d\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Given that his economic plan for New Zealand is to borrow a further $60 billion over 5 years, does he think that you can borrow your way to prosperity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d9f8f1d6fe441058f60d0cb48a9fa43\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, do not bring the Speaker into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262ce1d09aca9486797e5df99fb655f9d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you can borrow through a recession, as we have done in respect of the Government, as long as at the same time you have a plan for reducing that debt. One of the things that is going to reduce at least the Government contribution to it is that we sold Mighty River Power shares for $1.7 billion of cash, which is now in the Government bank account. That member is advocating that we borrow that money from overseas bankers. If he is so worried about how the debt is going to build up, why is he advocating that we borrow more and supporting a Labour Party that wants us to spend a whole lot more?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1981a35a2b04064a3c9f60a16ee2561\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: In reference to his so-called plan to reduce debt, can the Minister confirm, looking at New Zealand\u2019s accounts under his Budget and his economic plan, that New Zealand\u2019s external debt continues to increase in every year under his proposed economic plan for this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fa4122ede6c4a3091008c0e7ea10cee\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I cannot confirm that, but I am happy to look at the figures. What I can confirm is that the Government is outlining its plan to get on top of the debt we have built up through the recession paying New Zealand superannuation and maintaining public services. I did not hear the member opposing that at that time. If he was worried about debt he could have raised the issue then. And we will be making sure that we do not introduce a universal child benefit, extend Working for Families, write off 1 year of all student debt, cap all tertiary fees and phase out the fee system, and make all unemployed students eligible for the unemployment benefit, which, apparently, he is going to finance as Green Party policy, not by borrowing money but by printing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd4124f2b2634cae9d4e68541d94644f\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen Treasury\u2019s projections for the current account deficit, which show that the annual current account deficit will increase from $10 billion a year to $17 billion a year in 2017, according to the figures in his Budget; and does he believe that increasing the current account deficit year on year on year is the best way to rebalance the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7c6ede501fb48ceb60db1b1dd9f7976\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen those projections and, in my view, Treasury is consistently more negative about the current account deficit than it should be, but we do have some choices. We could stop rebuilding Christchurch, to meet the member\u2019s requirements. That may be possible. The fact is that the Government is doing its best by getting our finances back under control. The current account deficit today stands at half the level it was when Labour left office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6c4bd8924974262bea79da437d62c3d\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: Has he considered getting a really big colour photocopier and printing off enough money to pay off New Zealand\u2019s international liabilities, on behalf of all New Zealanders, sometime next week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d37c46915e964c75961583fffae767b7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think that is a helpful question, but if the Minister wishes to answer it the Minister can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5fa0c8f97cf4ff2a09bf7ea22720848\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: We have been advised to consider it, but I understand that the whole supply of them has been bought up by the Green Party, in anticipation of its opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223effb74a4a4f491497d192f6d8735f19\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister of Finance tell us what happened to the Southland farmer who used to be a Minister of Finance who once said that the nation had to live within its means and that our income had to match our expenditure, and why has this Southland farmer been replaced by a Parnell banker who believes that New Zealand can borrow money indefinitely, as he projects to do in his own economic forecasts in Budget 2013?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a4c03403f324889b10aea07ac530ec7\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: What happened, I think, to the Southland farmers is that they get very worried that the Greens are going to shut down the farming industry and so they will have to print money because New Zealand will not be earning any.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264b2117639dc486096cb566f6b542467\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister of Finance say the word \u201Crebalancing\u201D more than 50 times in the House in 2010, yet fail to mention it once in Budget 2013?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f77d9a571f84545a181240c98359fa7\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, I cannot answer that particular question, but I can tell you that whatever the number of words in the Budget, the Government\u2019s focus on rebalancing the economy remains as consistent today as it was then. We need to move from an economy driven by excessive borrowing and consumption, as advocated by those parties, towards one built on investment, exports, job creation, and savings. Economic circumstances have made that difficult, but we will see it through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205800d2d410c4802b0d0c3a16e990fbe\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I raise this at the first opportunity after the question time of Mr Norman. To his first point of order you said this: \u201CThe Minister very satisfactorily answered the question.\u201D To say that the Minister answered the question is one thing, but then to throw in your subjective judgment is what is so contestable to this side of the House. All I am asking is that if the answer is that you think the Minister has answered the question, well fine. If you are going to keep on throwing in that he answered very satisfactorily, some of us are going to contest that because it is a judgment you should not be making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c98088a0a8614533ab3ae25cf2f722ff\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will look carefully at the point the member is raising. The question was raised whether the question had been addressed. I have to judge whether I think the question has been addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb27335fea984bdb9da8b362cfabfa7b\u0022\u003EBudget 2013\u2014International Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u00226af5e347d0434e0f928111124b4c3af9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226af5e347d0434e0f928111124b4c3af9\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills and Employment: How is the Government investing in New Zealand\u2019s export education sector in Budget 2013?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022d84f3ee1336d4a00801b941eb5f63b73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d84f3ee1336d4a00801b941eb5f63b73\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E The Government\u2019s internationally focused growth package of $400 million over 4 years includes an investment of $40 million to market and promote New Zealand\u2019s international education industry. In 2012 there were nearly 100,000 enrolments of international students in New Zealand, and the industry contributed more than $2 billion to our economy and supported around 32,000 jobs. The Government has identified international education as an important area for growth, recognising that, in addition to the substantial revenues it generates, former students go on to become wonderful ambassadors for New Zealand internationally and create strong people-to-people links with New Zealanders doing business abroad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdbf9a107abe47d8a8456452078b48f3\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: What targets has the Government set to boost the value of international education in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5970e5244e346b2968b1abef4ada3b2\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: As part of the Government\u2019s Business Growth Agenda we have set a bold target to double the value of international education to $5 billion by 2025. To achieve this goal we will need to continue to strengthen our presence in markets such as China, India, South-east Asia, and Latin America, both through investing more in education in New Zealand and, of course, through ministerial and trade visits. The boost in funding provided by Budget 2013 and the internationally focused growth fund will enable our education industry to market New Zealand in these new and developing markets, highlighting our world-class institutions, our outstanding teaching and research staff, and qualifications that are valued and transferable throughout the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229af623e4c63c4b2088197b7837d83159\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: What wider benefits do international students bring to New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257abeeb533124a598e96782b968447f8\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: International students bring back to their home countries a greater understanding of New Zealand. We are, of course, a small country that depends for our prosperity on international trade in goods and services. International education is one important way in which we increase awareness of New Zealand in the countries we trade with, and this can only be good for growing New Zealand exports, for jobs and growth, and for incomes for the benefit of Kiwi families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222dce7bbb420d474b83409c200492a1fd\u0022\u003EGovernment Communications Security Bureau\u2014Investigation into Review of Compliance Leak\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00223295769f022d4cb6bdece4e6232da963\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223295769f022d4cb6bdece4e6232da963\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: In the inquiry being conducted by David Henry into the leaking of the Kitteridge report on the GCSB, are Ministers being interviewed on oath; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00220b908579413748dd9206e1a5a076cf0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b908579413748dd9206e1a5a076cf0e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: I am advised that the inquiry commissioned by the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet Chief Executive, Andrew Kibblewhite, and Government Communications Security Bureau Director, Ian Fletcher, has not interviewed Ministers under oath. The inquiry is not yet complete, and I do not think it is appropriate to get into discussions about the detail of it while it is being conducted, in order to preserve its independence. I can inform the member that the Prime Minister\u2019s office and the chief executive of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet made it clear to all ministerial offices that they are expected to cooperate fully with the inquiry. The terms of reference for the inquiry were publicly released in April and are available to members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022472cd9ba57bd400cba47a0ced6b7a81d\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Were the Ministers interviewed during the Rebstock inquiry into the leak of foreign affairs documents interviewed under oath; if so, why is the same standard not being applied in this case?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4ac5d6e2f434fe0b63aafc7b98fccdc\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That is a matter for Mr David Henry, who is conducting the inquiry. He has that capacity, but I have to say that trying to direct him in how to conduct the inquiry would probably lead to stronger criticism that it is no longer independent. It is an independent inquiry by a senior civil servant who has served not only both Governments but also in the Australian and New Zealand Public Services, and it is our view that he is best left to conduct the inquiry according to the procedures he believes will be effective. The report, of course, will be available to everybody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d1117f3bada49769dd5a17d416478b0\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Will all Ministers who were in receipt of the report prior to its leaking to the media be questioned on oath in the investigation; if not, why are some Ministers being interviewed but not others?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f084f40723e480195e8b4cbdd5056f3\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That is a matter for Mr David Henry. I am quite sure that if the Prime Minister\u2019s office was issuing instructions daily to him about how to conduct the inquiry, we would be getting ferociously questioned in here about interfering with it. So either it is independent or it is not. In this case it is independent. It is not how the previous Labour Government did it, but it is how we did it. In fact, I am sure that anyone being questioned in this inquiry will be held to a very high standard of transparency and honesty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be484b0813f142ca9cedcbc7d4ada717\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Do the terms of references for the inquiry into the unauthorised release of information relating to the Government Communications Security Bureau compliance review report allow for \u201Cthe conduct of formal interviews if the inquirer believes these are warranted by the facts \u2026\u201D; if so, why has one Minister been interviewed several times but others have not been interviewed at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2ec70995bab4259b415eee5dcffd0e5\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That is a matter for Mr David Henry, who is conducting the inquiry. As I understand it, the inquiry has some time to run, and he will have the opportunity to interview whomever he likes and ask any question he likes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c05db8e8968d4ec6b82a1c8c9a17777a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Why has this inquirer not asked the various Ministers, and Mr Peter Dunne in particular, for their phone records where the evidence is available\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdecc90f0eba4e29baccf12f5ac68e73\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Why don\u2019t you ask him?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bae7702fa7ba4a2785cc84e106519e42\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and why not\u2014I am asking the Minister responsible, all right? Why are the phone records, in which the evidence lies in this case, not being asked of Ministers\u2014in particular, Mr Peter Dunne?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe6e5f3ee8314f69b110e94fdc343b1e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot actually know how the inquiry is being conducted. It is being conducted by Mr David Henry as an independent inquiry by a senior civil servant. I am sure that he will make whatever inquiries he needs to in order to try to achieve the objective of finding out how the report was leaked. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278a968d5b14f486cac7b0545d5b1db80\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Why would anyone have confidence in an inquiry headed by David Henry, who is not taking evidence on oath, not keeping an electronic record of witnesses\u2019 answers to questions, and not demanding phone records of particular Ministers, and whose forensic investigation incompetence was revealed when he jumped ship before the wine-box inquiry? Why would we not believe\u2014[Interruption] Oh no\u2014oh yes, he did. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a707f62714945eb81c708081a5218ed\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! There may be some controversy in the question, but the member has a right to ask it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207e8b8cc602948ebacc431e45ee1267b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I will ask it again. Why would anyone have confidence in an inquiry headed by David Henry, who is not taking evidence on oath, not keeping an electronic record of witnesses\u2019 answers to questions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e96466bb94d4721bd78175caf3f3060\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member asked a question, I was getting ready to answer it, and he popped up to ask it again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd82f7e929364db092bb0af38d636d4a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The difficulty I have is the member was halfway through his question. He had not finished. I could not hear because of the level of interjection that was occurring on the National benches. The member will please ask his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291bd8af8f4474626af8b24ecb9dd3fc9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I am dying to ask this question. Why would anyone have confidence in an inquiry headed by David Henry, who is not taking evidence on oath, not keeping an electronic record of witnesses\u2019 answers to questions, not demanding phone records, and whose forensic incompetence saw him jump ship from the Inland Revenue Department just before the wine-box inquiry was so damning to the Inland Revenue Department? What about this bespeaks an in-house snow job? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211bf06aa9ff448189f9ded1fd88e9d11\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I wonder whether we should have an inquiry into how that member seems to know so much about how the inquiry is being conducted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c748e6bc41e54a3a8c1e78087571b255\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. He cannot turn a question\u2014a very legitimate one\u2014into that sort of answer, but I did write to David Henry and I got an answer that said: \u201CI won\u2019t tell you.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd0c71b2b9fb43f7be682f36e6b80d05\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. Would Bill English, on behalf of the Prime Minister, please answer the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c1e25cdbe524483861e436addc5cbc4\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know how Mr Henry is conducting his inquiry. I am surprised that that member seems to have detailed knowledge of it. I cannot help wondering whether his criticism of the inquiry may be preparing the ground for the fact that he cannot quite prove the allegations he made yesterday, and he is now going to blame the inquiry for failing to back him up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222454427be3424664b369e4123e7f5a97\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Again, all the Minister has to do is answer the question. He did not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227928daea5b7b4b5587a33f5d0fc58e59\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I believe that the Minister answered the question adequately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276cc637289074085ac78fbcbf126c535\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The issue here is about Standing Order 383(2), which says that \u201CThe reply to any question must be concise and confined to the subject-matter of the question asked,\u201D. Mr Peters was not the subject matter of the question. The Minister\u2019s answer was an attack on Mr Peters and he brought him into it in various ways. If Mr Peters had put himself in the question, fair enough, but he was not in the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210881041b6db468d88a80b097a774963\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the member, when he returns to his office, to look very carefully at the question that was asked. It certainly had a good level of opinion from the member who asked the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221054e7085ddb4f9b8795d05e6b0b74ee\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the Minister\u2019s comment just now, does he intend to open a further inquiry to ascertain who leaked to the Rt Hon Winston Peters the fact that the Hon Peter Dunne had been interviewed about the leak of the Kitteridge report; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d40009ec249e416c86b6daff5e08a0be\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, we will not be opening another inquiry, because this one is independent and will report fully. I have noticed, though, that when there is an inquiry into a leak to the Labour Party, it is called a witch-hunt, and when there is an inquiry into some other kind of leak, they say it is incompetent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba09cd55e333406d86339b49b123ec5b\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why will he not launch an inquiry into the leak about the inquiry into the leak? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cc340c27ae44c47a362bb944eae4801\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The reason is that I suspect Mr Peters already knows the outcome of the inquiry into the inquiry about the leak. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc1f31a3c66f40749f5ae738715d4e49\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d879c859e0714717989f1094df9a201f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I will just try to get some silence. [Interruption] Order! A point of order has been raised. The member has a right to raise a point of order, and it will be heard in silence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263537fc712fb438891f545954266de32\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: If the Deputy Prime Minister is going to keep drawing me into the inquiry, then I am going to short-circuit things by saying all the evidence is in those phone records, and your Minister is gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a24931151dc47c5a4ba9bbb3a71cf35\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not believe that is an adequate point of order, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221cb561ba25ba416fbf41697e447e7e3f\u0022\u003EPilot Licensing\u2014Colour Vision Requirements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022433405190516472085e43f3607163f56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022433405190516472085e43f3607163f56\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E This is something new\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022534c6b8ff4084de09e9036dc4e9b9ab5\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: Something borrowed, something blue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0c3f2f42dd545e6ad488f62f71963d0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014of the Minister of Transport\u2014[Interruption] But the same sort of incompetence, of course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022412055482d9642de92783e666879ed18\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdc9579ae7494a74b3b152ebb66ddf74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdc9579ae7494a74b3b152ebb66ddf74\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Why does Civil Aviation Rule Part 67 require that the applicant for a commercial or airline transport pilot licence have no deficit of colour vision to an extent that is of \u201Caeromedical significance\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022c936ffe6c3f1441fbe481304b71ed41c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c936ffe6c3f1441fbe481304b71ed41c\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Transport: Civil Aviation Rule Part 67 contains colour vision requirements that are designed to meet the standards set by the International Civil Aviation Organization\u2014known as ICAO\u2014in line with annex 1 of the Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation. Annex 1 requires contracting States to the convention, of which New Zealand is one, to test applicants to ensure there is no colour vision deficiency that could interfere with the safe performance of a pilot\u2019s duties. In practical terms, pilots need to be able to discern different colours used in aviation\u2014for example, on navigation charts, in cockpit instruments, in airport lighting, and in air navigation lights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222853a3e10cc44a84b0348fe67aa00277\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that Australia\u2019s implementation of the Aviation Colour Perception Standard enables pilots with all types and degrees of severity of defective colour vision to operate VH-registered aircraft across the globe, and that these operatives are flying planes into New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f698ad37efa947c9ad22759fb225c6f3\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The reality is, in relation to Australia, that New Zealand and Australia do apply the same standards, as required by the International Civil Aviation Organization\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9076d55fecc46b29f1eb8385deb2019\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, they don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d6fd851b3934ddd8be1e1dd45bf66a5\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014well, just hear me out\u2014and use the same primary screening method. However, in Australia\u2019s case the Australian Administrative Appeals Tribunal has made some decisions on some individual cases that require the Civil Aviation Safety Authority Australia, which is the safety regulator there, to issue medical certificates to applicants with some colour deficiency. The authority endorses the individual\u2019s medical certificate as not conforming with the requirements of annex 1 of the convention, and commercial pilots are limited to co-pilot duties only and, I understand, are not able to fly commercially into New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f120ebbdf5cd4a37aaefb20bccc8082b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that these colour vision defective pilots in Australia continue to meet the most stringent of operational training, testing, and ongoing review requirements imposed by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority Australia and their airline employers, and that these operatives have been for the last 25 years flying into New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218b142517c5444ccb17de50ed1747a8f\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am advised that that is not the case. The Civil Aviation Safety Authority Australia requires pilots to get approvals from the regulator of the country that they are flying into. In the absence of any such approvals, the Minister is not aware of any Australian colour vision deficient commercial pilots flying in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223530a10eb0514e66aafa4a9e429054bf\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that over the 23 years that Australia has followed this implementation of the Aviation Colour Perception Standard there have been no accidents or accidents reported in which the colour vision status of the pilot has been found to be implicated causally, so why is he insisting upon fictional standards unsupported by countries like Australia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae95377a20994532aa31f8ac56a77695\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, but that does not appear to be the case in relation to the matters that the member has raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a1aac6d886f43ff9b5c2eac915cf5be\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t know what\u2019s going on, that\u2019s why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272cef09afe1d477086f65853194f395e\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: No, you are wrong, Mr Peters. The reality of the situation is that the Chicago convention requires New Zealand to sign up to the same tests. Australia has the same tests, as I have explained to the member. It has an appeals tribunal that has allowed some pilots to fly, but with restricted practices. In terms of New Zealand\u2019s standards relative to the rest of the world, we are seen as having standards that are more liberal than some countries and also slightly more requiring than others, but all are under the Chicago convention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022670dda0aa4304dbcb31ed4d3f55f7525\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is the point. I have done my homework and you have not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f99b09a1f1d4500985ac6fc13de927c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c2938daf3cb4090a649bce5e8dff641\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: If there has not been one recorded aviation-related fatality anywhere in the world in which the colour vision of the pilot has been implicated causally, can he provide the evidence upon which the New Zealand Civil Aviation Authority continues to justify its implementation of the Aviation Colour Perception Standard, whereby New Zealand certified pilots with defective colour vision have imposed upon them restrictions so severe that they make a professional career\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f430dce62bac4d0ab76a7f291275b0ae\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Who wrote that question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e82cda08f075418faf88ebb022400e78\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I am able to write my own question, not like the bozo over there, all right? I am able to write my own question, not like the dumbo over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c52e14135954844a6d67d6898185187\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is not going to help the order of the House. It starts because of interjections from my right-hand side. Would the member please complete his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221332be16379b4b7e8d97419a46ad31eb\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: So here we go\u2014whereby New Zealand certified pilots with defective colour vision have imposed upon them restrictions so severe that they make a professional career in aviation a practical impossibility in their own country, and yet if they get a job in Australia, they could fly planes into New Zealand? How ridiculous is that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f890a496ea3047ccb9b3b326d33b4112\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: First let me say that I think the House must admire the generosity of the member in bringing this issue up, because he is not known for colour blindness himself. But the reality\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b348af3a4a5e41a98d51066cd10ecf26\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3e04eadaf944e5f93c7d694868e844d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is the member raising a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222323b131ee734c019ad970c4a7b8b5ad\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am, and it is that the Minister, as the Standing Orders require, should try to answer the question\u2014he has never been much of a wit; in fact, he has been half of a wit most of the time\u2014and get on with being a responsible Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f856e98932b4dfc8c0903504636f8e5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister please just address the question to help the order of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fddae3ab54944dfbacf70c82c0e0a23\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I suppose you could call that one all, but I do not think so. The reality of the issue that the member raises is a very important issue, because if you look at some of the examples\u2014he asked whether it has ever effected any accidents anywhere in the world. There are actually two documented aviation incidents\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf3c8bc5f2a74ce09041ac9bbcafd645\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, there are not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d8ca1f9402c49fd91b8da9caf933136\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and one accident in the United States where colour vision was seen as a contributing factor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228580f9954efc4c53ae16f8985b46b554\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s been contested\u2014overruled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce209408aaff4b71b183eb8ff235b60b\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member can say that, but, actually, the job of the air safety regulator is to ensure that it meets the international rules, and that is what it is doing in this case. If the member is saying that he knows better than the aeronautical regulator, that he should be trusted to make some judgments that, actually, our tests do not need to be as strong as they are internationally, well, he is fine to have that view, but the reality is that we trust our regulator every day to provide the sort of safety that New Zealanders depend upon. It is a serious subject, and, actually, we are required to sign up to the international regulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002294846e09d4714b599e49c01e50760229\u0022\u003EBudget 2013\u2014Affordable and Social Housing Initiatives\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022691958cd96ad49b39be8bdac7e72ce21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022691958cd96ad49b39be8bdac7e72ce21\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: How will Budget 2013 contribute to delivering more affordable housing and better social housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00224b8f0d15a2e5435aa0215d695d4b44fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b8f0d15a2e5435aa0215d695d4b44fc\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E We are tackling the issue of supply identified by the Productivity Commission with the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill, which will enable 39,000 homes to be built at pace in Auckland over the next 3 years. I have also had a constructive discussion with other councils on how these tools might help improve supply and affordability in other parts of New Zealand. The Budget also makes major inroads on social housing. It opens up access to the income-related subsidy, as part of the Government\u2019s plan to grow the community social housing sector. It also provides for a record $2.9 billion being invested over the next 3 years in upgrading Housing New Zealand\u2019s stock, with a real focus on improved quality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296a8f793abba40a1b2d9092a4b815fa1\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: What specific steps is the Government taking to improve quality and to better match social housing to tenants\u2019 needs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243ec61aaa2d34194a3cf76b0a4b59d5e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: There is a big focus on home insulation, and every single State house that can be insulated will be insulated by the end of this year. Already the Government has invested in providing insulation for 230,000 privately owned homes, and the Budget provided a further $100 million so that a further 46,000 homes will be able to be insulated. The Budget also provides for Project 324\u0026amp;5 an investment of $260 million in adding 3,000 additional bedrooms on to three-bedroom homes to better match them to tenants\u2019 needs. This initiative will reduce over-crowding, and will be welcomed by many large low-income families around New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229eeeda1629a3454fa3d0688ac6e6eabe\u0022\u003EDistrict Health Boards\u2014Diagnostic Testing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00224c8a477a639248e2b385cef4d463c5e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c8a477a639248e2b385cef4d463c5e3\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Labour\u2014Rongotai)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Are all district health boards meeting his expectations of providing timely, quality health services; if not, which DHBs are failing to provide \u201CBetter, Sooner, More Convenient\u201D health care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u00224b1cb4206c5246e6b8a151b2e201b56c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b1cb4206c5246e6b8a151b2e201b56c\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Generally, yes, although there is always room for improvement. District health boards are receiving over $1 billion extra over the next 4 years, and they are doing a very good job in tight financial times. The last quarterly national health targets, published this week, show that New Zealanders are receiving even more checks for diabetes and heart disease, more help to quit smoking, and they are getting more elective operations faster. The Government inherited a health service on track to ruin, but, thanks to strong financial management across the sector, we are now able to invest more in the changing needs of our population.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbf7f332b9c14061b57e5b8f32dd9264\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: He is a joker, is he not! Well, in light of that answer\u2014[Interruption] The optics are not good for you today, Steven.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273b421720a184f21b74ec580bf679b73\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Would the member ask\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e09234a9225f4bebbdb599bf47ebc586\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, is it acceptable for a patient to wait 12 months for an endoscopy at Southern District Health Board?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224beecad2e82e4f509da5668bb547630f\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I would have to check whether that data is correct or not. It would depend on whether or not the patient had been booked in advance for a regular check-up. That is the reason why they would be waiting a year, as we have a number of cases like that. But I am determined that we actually have faster access for those sorts of services, and that is the reason why the Government is closely monitoring those. We are ensuring, as part of our faster cancer treatment and better access to diagnostics, that we can improve those waiting times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9a7a9a935ed4ab6953260af842ba642\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, is it acceptable for a patient who finds it difficult to eat because of reflux and nausea, who vomits blood, and who has black, tarry stools to wait 12 months for an endoscopy at Southern District Health Board?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022618429349f534420801c3cdf14f103ec\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly, if they have got those symptoms, they need to go and talk to their general practitioner and get prioritised to go and be seen there. There have been longstanding issues at Southern District Health Board. I highlighted those in a press release last week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290af32a9f9ef41749850fa6b0804fa3d\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked the Minister whether it was acceptable for that condition\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248f093efade74c71967e209ca2285dce\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And the Minister was explaining that there have been issues at the hospital. Would the Minister please continue his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221366d461a14a4d43bd9cf51835f26709\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying to the member, there are issues at Southern District Health Board. I identified them in a press release last week\u2014what the Government is working on. Those problems are longstanding. They include, for example, Southern District Health Board stopping the provision of surveillance colonoscopies to hundreds of patients in 2006-07.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf5dde5ee3bc43e6a32edfdf73a764fa\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Is it acceptable for patients at Waikato District Health Board to wait, on average, 31 days for urgent magnetic resonance imaging, 128 days for semi-urgent magnetic resonance imaging, and 174 days for a routine one; and what impact will those delays have on patients?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229057c99c1f1544b58e3294900db3b439\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I would have to check that information. What I can tell the member is that, as we said in the statement last week, 75 percent of patients are getting a CT scan within 6 weeks, and just over half of our patients are receiving magnetic resonance imaging within 6 weeks. Certainly those who are needing them urgently are getting them faster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022628de3edbc774759a44300fbe12b46b1\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Is it acceptable for patients at Waikato District Health Board to wait, on average, 81 days for an urgent ultrasound and for no routine ultrasounds being undertaken at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be059bfa91a6400685e28326edc58f97\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I would have to check that information, because I simply do not believe that is correct. I would suspect that the member has received information under the Official Information Act, and she has not provided any coherence around what actual information she has asked the district health boards to provide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022572a83b957be497d869e43a6dabc670f\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table, from the Waikato District Health Board under the Official Information Act, information exactly as I set it out, including that those who are not accepted\u2014those who cannot even get a routine one\u2014are returned to the referrer because they are unable to be completed within 6 months. That is the evidence he wanted\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df9717eacaff49fdb5c81096b5bf440b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Leave is sought to table that letter from the Waikato District Health Board. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022338261bec142402d8fd26bf074a1f1de\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he re-announce his so-called new gold standard for diagnostic tests as new policy last week, when he had already announced it last year, and does he think that re-announcing policy actually gives patients better, sooner, more convenient health care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227349e1a65f3f48caaa8db005d81fb5a6\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: We were updating the public on the success that we are having in this. When I became Minister of Health, Ministers could not actually tell people how long they were waiting for magnetic resonance imaging and CT scans because Annette King would not put any money into asking the question. The reason that they would not ask the question was that a whole lot of people in Dunedin were being denied regular colonoscopies because that Government did not want to know. What we updated and announced last week was that because of our new monitoring system, we can tell patients that 75 percent of New Zealanders are getting their CT scans within 6 weeks, and 50 percent are getting magnetic resonance imaging within 6 weeks, far better than under\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022435e0c64b1d84bb9a4cd2a1d2138c9c7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I think that is quite a satisfactory\u2014a long enough answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265e6ac3fa30d45e494a316303f641365\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table two documents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f1b9459bf3144669c95dbdc538823c3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table two documents. A brief description, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022442125daaa0e4f00bd0fde4a07b58844\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly. A letter from a patient from Southern District Health Board, saying that he has to wait 12 months for an endoscopy, and he has all the symptoms that I have already described. I have his permission to table it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fae159d3f53a4c0cb78a9b42306835e1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. And the second one? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238f762786fe840b092c4db8443063ec3\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: The second one is a letter from the Southern District Health Board\u2014and the Minister wanted proof of this\u2014saying that he has to wait for approximately 12 months for that endoscopy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022791a24acd667472699bc1610b7478357\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table those two documents. Is there any objection? There appears to be none. They can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocuments, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e97a9ba4d5fd453f9767476f6d5b122d\u0022\u003ESchools, Digital Learning\u2014School Network Upgrade Project\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u00222f5748a96c644c038bcf99f9f8328dc9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f5748a96c644c038bcf99f9f8328dc9\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Education: What recent announcements has the Government made regarding the School Network Upgrade Project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u00223e4d632997a949948a2439b2e5683026\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e4d632997a949948a2439b2e5683026\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I was pleased to announce recently that the Government will be investing $136 million over the next 4 years to enable the completion of the School Network Upgrade Project by 2016. This is great news for New Zealand schools, because it means that the School Network Upgrade Project will be delivered 2 years early. Under our Government, over 1,400 schools are now involved in the School Network Upgrade Project. That is over 60 percent of all eligible State and State integrated schools. This announcement is about providing better internet connections for students and teachers. Our Government is committed to providing modern learning environments that create more learning opportunities for all young New Zealanders. This is great news for New Zealand schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a26e3c000244955892a8bdccaea5ddf\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: What other information can the Minister provide on the completion of the School Network Upgrade Project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eec90af36d5245af8c7f60ab439fc551\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE\u003C/span\u003E: In addition to providing additional money to speed up the School Network Upgrade Project initiative, I am pleased that from June 2013, wireless capacity will be included in the School Network Upgrade Project process. The inclusion of wireless in the upgrade process will allow students to be able to learn from more places in their school. This is just another step towards ensuring that students and teachers around New Zealand can take full advantage of our $1.35 billion investment in ultra-fast broadband.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac1b46f831cc4a55b029553ebe1df991\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that $86 million of the funding that Budget 2013 provides for the School Network Upgrade Project in fact comes from previous allocations and underspends; if so, does that not mean that the School Network Upgrade Project is actually behind schedule?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a5e6d8a1f81454abb210133dcefa127\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022036f9501cce943e299fb9a3d546b6731\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002207c1c5378f074a45b59b16909948ff83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207c1c5378f074a45b59b16909948ff83\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave of the House for this question to be set down for a day when the Minister of Justice is here to answer it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u002214012dd0b0264e2aa1bcca59cae243da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214012dd0b0264e2aa1bcca59cae243da\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to do that. Is there any objection to that? Yes, there is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aabb0588eddc4977b5769c001d5c0f71\u0022\u003EEqual Employment Opportunities Commissioner\u2014Appointment Process\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002212c305bc3ea8457babc14f8ba7ad9e00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212c305bc3ea8457babc14f8ba7ad9e00\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: How many expressions of interest or nominations for the position of Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner were received by the Ministry of Justice after the advertised deadline of 13 October 2012?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u00223fe1f4a661f7440fb2b9c50682c37250\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223fe1f4a661f7440fb2b9c50682c37250\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: The member is still, regrettably, wrong in his assertion that there was an advertised deadline. The Ministry of Justice does not determine any deadline or closing date for a ministerial appointment. Any advertised dates, either in public advertisements or in the letters the Minister sent seeking nominations, are for administrative purposes only. The Ministry of Justice acts in a purely administrative support role at the Minister\u2019s direction, to support the Minister\u2019s process and timetable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211c8fd11f32a4c968c7ffd48b737e099\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That was the same answer that the Minister of Justice gave yesterday to this question. At that point you ruled that that was an unhelpful answer, which I agreed with, and you gave us additional supplementary questions. Will you be doing that now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc867a5bbfb34308820ff710d2d70623\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, on this occasion I will not be. The member still has supplementary questions. That was an answer that was far more clear as to the reason. The Attorney-General clearly explained what he thought was a reasonable difference between the advertised deadline, which I have a copy of in front of me, and the reasons why he did not think that was the Minister\u2019s deadline. It has been addressed adequately. The member certainly has some additional supplementary questions anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256fb4f4c2e9a40e3a47e4322b1ec8aa1\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Why was Jackie Blue\u2019s expression of interest for the Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner position treated differently from the expressions of interest from other members of the public?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228ca71fd2f894fda8a01819d7c17e1a3\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is important to say that there were various ways in which expressions of interest could be received. There was the advertisement and the reference to the Ministry of Justice website\u2014I think that is what the member is perhaps fixated on\u2014and the Minister wrote to support parties, so there were various ways. What, at the end of the day, the Minister is guided by are the statutory requirements set out in section 29 of the Crown Entities Act 2004 and the relevant sections of the Human Rights Act 1993. The Minister also received guidance on relevant UN resolutions as to the appointment to this particular kind of position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9561ba5211542848d4bb50c29e80199\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, how is it in line with those processes that the Minister has outlined for the Minister to withhold the name of one of the members of the appointment panel for a position such as this\u2014a person who looks after the human rights of New Zealanders? Do not New Zealanders deserve to know that, and why would you withhold that name?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225defc91cfe364892bd59746580c3c5d8\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Because she respects the requirements of the Privacy Act. There are certain requirements under the Human Rights Act, the Crown Entities Act, and the Paris principles as to the way in which these interviews should be conducted. It is a very senior position; I am surprised the Opposition is treating this as a matter of frivolity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022789ed949c0c54a88acf170943ba76521\u0022\u003EDiabetes\u2014Forecasts, Prevention, and Blood Glucose Meters\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u00225cdc33bffbac473bb025a45735b2689e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225cdc33bffbac473bb025a45735b2689e\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: How many New Zealanders are expected to have diabetes in 2021, and what is the expected cost of providing health services for them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u002273c0dcf4bbee41679d2c1caf54c0ef7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273c0dcf4bbee41679d2c1caf54c0ef7c\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E A number of studies have attempted to estimate the number of people who may have diabetes in the future. It is a very complex issue to calculate and I am advised there is not yet an agreed methodology amongst the experts. I am advised by officials that a report produced by PricewaterhouseCoopers in 2008 has put the cost of diabetes rising from approximately $600 million in 2008 to $1.5 billion in 2022. A New Zealand study by Jo, Tobias, and Yeh predicts a 20 percent increase in the prevalence of diabetes from 2012 to 2021, which would mean 271,000 New Zealanders. I am aware of further advice from the head of the diabetes advisory committee that the number could be 386,000 if there is no change in practice or management. The Government is committed to improving health services for diabetes and heart disease, with a strong focus on prevention. In Budget 2013 we announced a boost of new funding for New Zealanders with, or at risk of, developing diabetes and heart disease.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cd2ae04f4bc4674a154828dde8a41e4\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister dispute the PricewaterhouseCoopers estimate of $1.78 billion in expenditure in 2021; and does he accept the findings of the University of Otago research recently published showing that a much higher prevalence of diabetes and pre-diabetes in the New Zealand population, currently one in four adult New Zealanders and a higher prevalence in other population groups, means that that is likely to be a significant underestimate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed462d880bf94cd7a4c0ea09e198691f\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I think that the answer I gave to the member indicates that, depending on the assumptions that you use and the various numbers that you put in, you can get a range of results. What I do think the member has touched on quite rightly, though, is the importance of investing in prevention, but particularly in the identification of pre-diabetes. The biggest-increasing pressure in much of this space is pre-diabetes, and that is the reason why achieving 90 percent of New Zealanders getting a heart and diabetes check means that we can actually identify those at risk of pre-diabetes and enable them to make the vital lifestyle changes needed in order to prevent themselves from getting that disease.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294f28efcaced45d196b483a24c568233\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: What is the likely availability of funds to meet the costs of diabetes treatment services that should be anticipated in 2021, which are likely to more than treble over that 8-year period and exceed $1.78 billion in 2021 alone?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2709fb3e4024d0dad364613fcae0561\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: The advice that I have is that those numbers are premised on no change in the way that we manage diabetes or the activities we have in order to prevent diabetes, or, more important in many ways, the development of pre-diabetes amongst individuals. That is why the Government is focused very much on increasing the number of heart and diabetes checks in order for those people at risk to have that identified by their general practitioner and be able to get the lifestyle changes that they need. Also in this year\u2019s Budget the Government has invested significant new money in expanding local diabetes care improvement programmes. We have provided additional money for encouraging more checks, and also a very significant investment in doubling the number of green prescriptions that general practitioners can refer patients to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256a78e0ffc80477dbfbd052e5a8a8d34\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question related to the availability of funds to meet the sum PricewaterhouseCoopers anticipated would be required\u2014and I think most would accept it is going to be more than that $1.78 billion in 2021. The Minister, in his earlier answer, indicated that there was some dispute about what the number was, but that did not prevent him, in fact, from responding about what the likely availability would be, say, on a range of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b664d1969f0645ca8074c962c486e29a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I accept the point of order the member is making. To be fair to the Minister, he tried to very adequately address the question, but if the Minister wants to address just the part about the availability of additional funding, that would be helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022863e92ac2f814c919117f3201bf3f010\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: What will be important for the availability of funds for affording the demands of diabetes and any other health disease is that New Zealand has a strong, growing economy\u2014an economy where taxes are low, where regulations are under control, where Government spending is well spent. I do not think we will meet those costs by printing the money in 2021.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efe8eebb966d4f238715721f4fab6d36\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the Minister\u2019s apparent confidence that there will be available funds to meet a $1.78 billion health services bill for diabetes in 2021 alone, could I ask the Minister how much money would it have been rational to invest in obesity prevention in this year\u2019s Budget, and how much would it have cost to reinstate the healthy food requirements in schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f44c277e1174929b7442c04fbeb57c0\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I think it would have been rational to have the investment that this Government is making in the area of diabetes and helping people manage their weight. The Government is spending $60 million a year on prevention initiatives, which include Fruit in Schools, the funding for which was going to be stopped under Labour; a range of nutrition and breastfeeding programmes; and a very significant investment in Kiwisport. So it is across the range and across the life course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229564b4d23dc34c4592a74d8cd82d7483\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Can I clarify whether the Minister\u2019s answer is that the Government invested the perfect rational amount in obesity prevention?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257cc61d07fbc42118c14b8d9698ba54a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is how I took the answer, effectively, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222668aa21fc1d42b387b43b7d5728b2ab\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table two documents. The first is the PricewaterhouseCoopers report for Diabetes New Zealand entitled\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c0403f6aced4ed696bccd9cae20d98a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just clarify how available that is for members?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d71fe6199cb846069aa5b6176a091fc7\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: It is not readily available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b26e40f9d5a4523880208cf427cb32e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, I will take the member\u2019s word for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d178964d471d4556878d95487c85cf9c\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: That is from September 2008. The second document is the report of the research by Coppell, Mann, and others entitled Prevalence of diagnosed and undiagnosed diabetes and prediabetes in New Zealand: findings from the 2008/09 Adult Nutrition Survey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7f7d795c6d742409e7774071c26cf71\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table those two documents. Is there any objection? There appears to be none. They can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocuments, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229877e1d427bd46e990cbea0f771b79c7\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a report from Stuff where the Minister of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b807e811915d4bc48c4d2c44da617f49\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, Stuff is\u2014[Interruption] Order! Stuff is freely available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b94778f7a3a47779e55c941f7a82053\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister expect that the hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders forecast to have diabetes by 2021 should have access to accurate and reliable blood sugar kits, and is he aware of the many expressions of concern from both health professionals and diabetics around the new sole supply CareSens kits, with life-threatening reports of inaccurate meter readings and faulty test strips?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d540e039bf3450e9fc276c2ece87aa1\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Pharmac has moved to a sole supply arrangement for most people for their blood glucose testing kits. I have to say that, as I have been travelling around the country, I think the transition has gone remarkably well, actually. About 90 percent of those people on the previous meters have now transitioned, and I think that most people are finding the service is up to what they might have expected. We have had very, very little feedback counter to that in the last few months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c0ac9c8b669f4843b78f8001953f1b63\u0022\u003EHealth and Safety, Workplace\u2014Hazardous Substances Guide\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u00228a3bd4a4eacf4334887d6c8fdb7465ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a3bd4a4eacf4334887d6c8fdb7465ab\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (National\u2014Whangarei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: What recent announcements has the Government made to help businesses understand and manage the risks posed by hazardous substances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u00225c9084ece8e0441b9a6f1a433770fcb7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c9084ece8e0441b9a6f1a433770fcb7\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday I launched a new multimedia tool box to raise awareness amongst small and medium sized businesses about the risks of working with hazardous substances such as paints, solvents, and liquid agrichemicals, and provided simple tools they can use to minimise those risks. Chronic health problems caused by exposure to hazardous substances all too often lead to disabilities and early death. Businesses and workers need to make themselves more aware of the risks involved and of the simple actions they can take to prevent exposure to hazardous substances. The tool box is part of a wider package to improve compliance with hazardous substances requirements, including a comprehensive review of the hazardous substances and new organisms legislation, a 3-year campaign to raise public awareness of the importance of the safe handling of chemicals at use at home and at work, and an increase in compliance monitoring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022779cf458978649d5980d61b52a1f70f2\u0022\u003EHon Phil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it important to improve the management of hazardous substance risk? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220566344333bb424082f2769602d717b9\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: The Opposition might think this is a joke, but research shows that every year approximately 500 to 800 New Zealanders die due to industrial illness\u2014more than double the road toll\u2014and many of those deaths are due to exposure to hazardous substances. But a recent survey has shown that only 25 percent of businesses comply with best practice in eight key areas. That is simply not good enough. We have a comprehensive regime in place, but awareness and response to critical risks is too low. The Kiwi \u201Cshe\u2019ll be right\u201D attitude is literally killing us. Exposure to hazardous substances is largely preventable with the right combination of education, enforcement, and greater investment by industry in modernising safety systems. The announcements we have made signal that this is a priority issue for this Government, and we are aiming at making a real difference to the safety of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d7b8e98382984400a9f8fe3a4df82be3\u0022\u003EQuestions to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222dd15782151a4d259aae041fe8b195e0\u0022\u003EHousing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill\u2014Closing Date for Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e99acfd070704d5c8fdd4cd04430c30d\u0022\u003EHOLLY WALKER (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Social Services Committee: When do submissions to the Social Services Committee on the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill close?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u00221f4e19a89207401b96451bbc318ceb56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f4e19a89207401b96451bbc318ceb56\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (Chairperson of the Social Services Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Submissions on this bill close today: Thursday, 30 May 2013.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224363ca8930a04571abfd213ff8f1502c\u0022\u003EHolly Walker\u003C/span\u003E: Did he consult with the Minister of Housing or his staff before making the decision to close submissions on this date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225616095668d44bb9bd5285c3945c9fe1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The difficulty the member has with any supplementary questions is that they must be something that is a matter of the responsibility of the chairman. As advised by the Clerk, that one does not meet the Standing Orders. I invite the member to rephrase her question or attempt to rephrase her question\u2014[Interruption] Order! I am on my feet\u2014to make sure that it is within the Standing Orders, and then I will accept a supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0a7b4b99cdc4139913f2e7a74fa4b11\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is not the responsibility of the Clerk, and for you to say you were advised by the Clerk that a particular supplementary question is out of order is not satisfactory. You have to rule it out of order, and you can choose whether or not you say why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de00e7c349d44355b56cde62643e5573\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member has been here long enough to know that although I accept the responsibility for any decision I make, I am on regular occasions advised by the Clerk. I have ruled that question out. I have invited the member to rephrase it in a way that is acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022434099bcb0e149c38a3b4e11d03924ff\u0022\u003EHolly Walker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would just like to seek your guidance. The question was in relation to whom the chairperson of the committee consulted with in his capacity as chair before making the decision about the closing date. I do not see how that is out of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9ff2966595a42538f6c14334d231acd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is now starting to question my ruling\u2014[Interruption] Order! I am trying to assist the member. Would she ask a question that is in order, and then we will make progress. At the end of this time, the ability to ask a supplementary question is entirely at the discretion of the Speaker. If we are not going to make progress here, then I suggest that the member will not get opportunities to ask\u2014[Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9c6e1a2fd7b4a19b18be70f7da1e8b9\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am not trying to trifle with you, at all. It is a clarification of whether you are changing the rule of Speaker Smith in Speaker\u2019s ruling 159/2 on this very point, which is that a chair can be questioned on whether they have acted independently in making this very specific decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221eecaf27fc624e83bc633fc7923104d1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And I invite the member to look at Speaker\u2019s ruling 159/2: \u201CThe chair of a committee is empowered to call for submissions. The chair does not [have to seek] the approval of the committee to call for submissions. The chair can call for submissions,\u201D and then subsequently have them confirmed by the committee. Would the member please proceed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226736048919ae484fb345f8c40281ac28\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c6f7e60162b4df1a2df8d35cc900857\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is the member attempting to question my decision on this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022656f1990813a4e65a26c25455d6da22e\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa10f5574f1347c5bd26996eef9a6c10\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014because I would take that quite seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eab448ad2fdb47b1b91777ab753f5ec2\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014because it is inconsistent with the Speaker\u2019s ruling you have just read out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a8e52dbddbc492f9dc92a243e534103\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Then I will hear from the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226b0375e884a4dbaa53796004e0d710d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: When you read that Speaker\u2019s ruling, you indicated, quite properly\u2014and we all know\u2014that the chairman has the right to make that decision without consultation. However, the member asked whether or not, in coming to that decision, he consulted with the Minister or the office. Asking a person how they came to a decision they are responsible for is, in my submission, within the Standing Orders and is not inconsistent with Speaker\u2019s ruling 159/1. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276d96de46303495b837dce308ed77aae\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am going to ask the member to repeat the question as asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022622aed9fa970453dac5607357efccb34\u0022\u003EHolly Walker\u003C/span\u003E: Did he consult with the Minister of Housing or his staff before making the decision to close submissions on this date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a91c686b38a44fd9b39e0b8c93b95329\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: Under Standing Order 192(1), as chairman I can set a closing date and advertise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f5efc2d541c4ea2bdcd218318dea774\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249d80562a519442bb23c7e2a75a69eb8\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: Let me finish, ma\u2019am. Let me finish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba488087bf7e46419e3c9d4ca3fe42d5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Let the member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbfda515b24e4dcebffd7e467979762d\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: I can, as chairperson, set a closing date and advertise for submissions or invite submissions from interested parties. As chairman of the Social Services Committee I did make that decision, and that decision was confirmed by the committee at yesterday\u2019s meeting, on 29 May. As that member knows, though, the bill was referred to our committee on Budget night, 16 May 2013\u2014Mr Speaker, if you could bear with me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c04611c47ad64795b3f040b9e3cb93e7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! It is becoming a very long answer to what was a relatively simple question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fff135c03ba5432bafcef31ef2909fd8\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and 10 weeks were due for committee consideration. So prior to the bill being referred, I did ask senior Opposition members on the committee seeking leave to meet on Friday\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222701e081b3334b20b4475630ceb12547\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Now the answer has gone on quite sufficiently long enough. The member was simply asked whether he consulted with the Minister and his office. Could the member please answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022305cca4a07b14c118edbe3d8aa61bcd2\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: After the bill was referred to our committee on the night of Budget night, I made\u2014in my own decision\u2014the decision to set a 13-day period for submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022401d83b42d0148ef88cadb12334670ba\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please\u2014[Interruption] Order! Would the member just answer the question. I am going to ask the member Holly Walker to ask the question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fa8a965e1824c168bb2e3ccd77fa76c\u0022\u003EHolly Walker\u003C/span\u003E: Did he consult with the Minister of Housing or his staff before making the decision to close submissions on this date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee8ad29cfa7e437f98981a2dd9b3ac12\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: After the bill was referred to us on the night of Budget night, I made this decision on my own, as is my discretion under the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fce7fa740e2744efbf9b321d211d85cb\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. No one has disputed that. The question was whether consultation occurred. After, I think, four attempts, that has not even been addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e09d8ada4476485da4e7eccc3197f18f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am going to ask the member Holly Walker to ask the question again, and let us hope that on this occasion we get a simple answer to a simple question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f31cc584ad14b3bb178ae9a3ad4e93c\u0022\u003EHolly Walker\u003C/span\u003E: Did he consult with the Minister of Housing or his staff before making the decision to close submissions on this date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d2bda85312a4ee4998d7c21775c575d\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: The bill was referred on the night of Budget night, 16 May, and I did not consult with the Minister. I made this decision on my own.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4cecb52a77748aaa19968f091a835ea\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002257b2518b349848c0931a129e9de034f3\u0022\u003EHousing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill\u2014Length of Submission Period\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255a9f5c0d7034c1f889b67e93facb6c7\u0022\u003EHOLLY WALKER (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Social Services Committee: What is the length of the period for submissions to the Social Services Committee for the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad92b6beda1f465b92acc45f310ff0c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad92b6beda1f465b92acc45f310ff0c6\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (Chairperson of the Social Services Committee):\u003C/span\u003E The public call for submissions was made on 17 May 2013. Submissions, as I said in the answer to question No. 1, closed today. The length of time, therefore, was just under 2 weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222d58241cf8b4438ba850c6b06ab39bc\u0022\u003EHolly Walker\u003C/span\u003E: Is 10 working days sufficient time for members of the public and key stakeholders to engage with the 52-page bill and prepare detailed submissions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c39cc66b0c374db5b9d0396d52335524\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022278d416ded5349a9b116005a02b75305\u0022\u003EHousing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill\u2014Request for Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fafa227c63ae481ca42645aee490acaa\u0022\u003EHOLLY WALKER (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Social Services Committee: Has he, as chairperson of the Social Services Committee, written to anyone soliciting submissions on the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill; if so, who?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u002230fcc814a47b4916801d8ea14ffbcaed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230fcc814a47b4916801d8ea14ffbcaed\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (Chairperson of the Social Services Committee):\u003C/span\u003E No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022684c4561109d441b96fd6a65e3c51566\u0022\u003EHolly Walker\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the regulatory impact statement accompanying the bill stated that the bill was developed with very limited consultation, why did he not proactively alert key stakeholders to the existence of the bill and the opportunity to make a submission?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298aff126abe84442a768a55eafa12ca4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am going to let the member answer it, but I would have thought that was clearly a responsibility for the committee, rather than the chairman. Does Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga want to add to that question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be4e064abc2b4e7bbbdc7f4c795e5fd4\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, as you said, it is a matter for the committee to decide that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe28ecdb07964fefba4d97f98dc2fb81\u0022\u003EHolly Walker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. In his earlier answers, the chair clearly referred to the fact that he used his delegated authority under the Standing Orders to make this decision, so the question about who to write to was part of that delegated authority that he used. Therefore, I think it is legitimate to ask why\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245147495c41e4245acf87cc121ee168e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I invite the member, if she wants the opportunity, to ask question No. 4. Would she ask question No. 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002203303efec79340f7882689588c239ce8\u0022\u003EHousing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill\u2014Submissions Received\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a22680c6c669434b909e4539cb589197\u0022\u003EHOLLY WALKER (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Social Services Committee: How many submissions have been received on the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022906ad2524c924b34a11f602085097464\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022906ad2524c924b34a11f602085097464\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (Chairperson of the Social Services Committee):\u003C/span\u003E I am aware that some submissions have been received. The total number of submissions received will not be known until submissions close later today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226006e49296da4144a96b7557ebb99b28\u0022\u003EHolly Walker\u003C/span\u003E: How many have been received to date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb89c93ce5534182b506bcf06da5daa3\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: At this moment in time I am not aware of the total number of submissions that have been received.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d7ec1736ecc40b6930403b60b2b8279\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This was a simple question that was set down today at 10.30. Although I can accept that the member might not know how many have been received between the time that he prepared his answer and now, when the question simply asks how many have been received, he should be able to give a number.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207dd02041e38439ca421d883046bcc1e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The submissions will then be received by the Clerk, but, as chairman, he would not necessarily need to know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a96ee50a610441c83df565e257a4ce9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: He could ask.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e7549076d834f96a89224c9c21cc132\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am quite satisfied with the answer that the member has given to Holly Walker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c73f8f864cd24c4f850af74aa8f2de2d\u0022\u003EHousing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill\u2014Closing Date for Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202f7190a5a1a4008be23f1d83357f5e5\u0022\u003EHOLLY WALKER (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Social Services Committee: Did he decide that submissions to the Social Services Committee on the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill will close today; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u00222fafb78871f64a5aae7415b76afc8743\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fafb78871f64a5aae7415b76afc8743\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (Chairperson of the Social Services Committee):\u003C/span\u003E As I said, under Standing Order 192(1) I have the discretion to determine the closing date. I felt that the closing date of today was the appropriate amount of time for submissions, giving a 10-week turn-round period for the closing date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383363d0-b05b-469f-9cf9-a990d946d1b9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243507f4951c548e3a8eccd67ec85f95c\u0022\u003EHolly Walker\u003C/span\u003E: Will he extend the submission period to allow New Zealanders to have their say on this significant piece of legislation; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3e52a20d9984a5ba123e860a2af5520\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have the power to extend the submission date. It can be extended by the committee, but that is a matter for the committee to decide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bafbca1fe8934f0badede01027c9f026\u0022\u003EBudget Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d685f1d487c141a7980ca0b56524eabc\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2013/14 Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000318\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 29 May on the .\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u002240775bb8d3c143c9b2d77cb4f69d7d20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240775bb8d3c143c9b2d77cb4f69d7d20\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Here we are, discussing and debating the fifth Budget of the National-led Government, and I have to say that every single day in this House the difference becomes clearer and clearer. I could be talking about the polls, of course, which are also becoming clearer and clearer about what New Zealanders want, but I am not. I could be talking about the difference between the factions in the Labour Party, because every day they become clearer and clearer, but I am not. What I am talking about is the very clear difference that the New Zealand public can now see between what this Government is continuing to deliver, has delivered for the last 5 years, and what Budget 2013 is a continuation of\u2014the solid, sensible, caring, and progressive management of this Government, which has got New Zealand on the right path\u2014and what the Labour-Greens coalition would condemn this country to. That is what is becoming clearer and clearer in the minds of New Zealanders, and I welcome it, actually. I welcome Labour tethering itself, hitching its cart, to the Green horse, because that is showing New Zealanders very clearly the real risks that they face if they were to put that lot in charge of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EBill English, in this Budget, has New Zealand on track. He has us on track to get back to surplus. He has this year, in this Budget, shown us that this year we are looking at a deficit of around $2 billion, when Australia, that mighty, powerful nation across the Ditch, which is always held up to us as the beacon of all things good, has announced, under its Labor Government, a $20 billion deficit. We are on track to a $2 billion deficit this year and a return to surplus, as promised, in 2014-15. Bill English is delivering us steady growth\u2014in fact, growth rates that are the envy of most of the rest of the world, and are bettered only by Australia. He has delivered us continually reducing debt projections, remembering that we inherited from the Labour Government never-ending deficits. We were facing a country that would never ever get back to a surplus\u2014never get back to surplus. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251e7aae028464856a71d987c16c91d70\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Speaker will not allow a speaker on their feet to be drowned out. This is Parliament; it is not a public house.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a951f53e1504abab321d931b385e9a3\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Robertson. I enjoy their bleating. It shows just how much the truth hurts them. Bill English has us on track to get back to surplus. That is a remarkable feat. We see falling unemployment, we see record low interest rates, and we see the lowest rates of crime in 30 years. That is what sensible management means. That is what a caring, progressive Government that is focused on what matters and that does want a brighter future for all New Zealanders means. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EWhat is the difference between the alternative and the options New Zealand faces? What would a Labour-Green regime deliver to this country? Well, what we do know is that those parties continue every day to show us, without doubt, without question, that they would take more money out of the pockets of New Zealanders to spend on inflated bureaucracy, working groups, more red tape, more spending, and more debt, because that is all they know, it is all they deliver, and it is their only way of functioning. It seems to me that they are genetically hard-wired to focus on what they can take and what they can spend. Every utterance that we hear from Labour and the Greens is about how much they can take and how much they can spend\u2014not one word, not one policy, not one contribution, not one press release, and not one speech about how they are going to contribute to getting the New Zealand productive sector up and running, providing the jobs, providing the incomes, and providing the opportunities for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225b16ed8420b4ad0aebe161e9a11c1e0\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, Amy. You don\u2019t even believe this crap. You don\u2019t even believe this rubbish from the research unit. You just don\u2019t believe it. Look like you believe it. You\u2019ve got no idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dce4dfa393da464abe00b8c62101c9fd\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: You see, David Cunliffe still does not get it. David Cunliffe still thinks that Government spending is the fix for all our worries. If a Government can tax you more and spend more on bureaucracy, then everything will be well. The Labour Party still thinks there is a magic money machine and magic beans that it can spend, and that it can just keep on spending, keep on taxing, and keep on borrowing. That will not matter. Never mind that under a Labour-Green Government, under the settings that those parties left us with and the ruination that they gave to this economy, right now we would be looking at $100 billion more debt\u2014$100 billion more debt, that is the future they want for young New Zealanders. That is the future they want to condemn every young New Zealander to\u2014a $100 billion debt burden around their necks. We will not do that. We will manage this economy sensibly. We have done so for 5 years, and we will continue to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThat is why you have people like the IMF coming out and saying that New Zealand has got it right. New Zealand has got economic and political settings that are right and that other countries should be looking to. That is a significant milestone. That is why our interest rates are low. If you want to talk about making living affordable for New Zealanders, the best thing we can do\u2014Mr Assistant Speaker, I apologise for bringing you into the debate\u2014the best thing this country can do, is ensure that we have sensible policies, low debt, and low interest rates, and that the settings are right so that businesses can create jobs and are incentivised to invest. That is one of the core reasons that we in this party and in this Government are focused on reforming the Resource Management Act, to ensure that while it protects our environment it also provides the certainty and the streamlined processes that mean that we can have housing that we can afford, that we can create jobs in our cities and in our towns, and that we can do it in a way that is not simply a fest of billing for the consultants, the lawyers, and the planners who have built up around the industry that this has become. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EWe have got to have good outcomes, but we know that in the last 2 years alone these over-bloated, cumbersome, litigious processes have meant that at least $800 million worth of projects have not gone ahead. That is jobs. So every time one of the Opposition comes into this House and says \u201CWhere are the jobs?\u201D, I say to them \u201CHow about you support fixing some of the roadblocks to creating those jobs? How about you get on board with the Government and say that we can do better, that we can have settings that look after our environment and still provide certainty and opportunities to invest?\u201D. But, no, Labour wants to oppose it. In fact, the Labour Party has already come out and said that, if elected, it would repeal all the improvements to the Resource Management Act, which is interesting, really, because it is saying that it would rather keep the inefficient, bloated, expensive, litigious system that we have than support any sensible change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EDo you know what else that would mean? It would mean that the Labour Party has announced that it opposes our including in the Resource Management Act the protection of New Zealand from natural hazards. That is one of the changes that we want to make to Part 2, and yet we have already got the Labour Party coming out and saying that it opposes that and that if it was elected, it would reverse that. Here we are with the Labour Party. Labour members are sitting there, telling New Zealand that they do not want in the Resource Management Act the protection of New Zealand from the risks of natural hazards. I think that is appalling, I think it is disgraceful, and I think it shows how they are willing to play politics and to do and say whatever they can to get back into power, where they can continue to borrow, spend, and ruin the future of this country. They are shameless. They are not looking out for the best interests of this country. If they were, they would be looking to support sensible, meaningful improvements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThis morning I have been up in K\u0101piti announcing the beginning of the build of ultra-fast broadband in K\u0101piti, in Levin, in Gisborne, and in Upper Hutt, because we are interested in supporting rural and provincial New Zealand. We know that we can make significant gains by ensuring that rural and provincial New Zealand is connected and can do business from anywhere in this country; that our children in the smallest town or the smallest rural community can access the best resources not only in New Zealand but in the world; that our patients can get access to health care from wherever they are, through high-speed video hook-ups and telehealth initiatives; and that our businesses can conduct business around the world, recruit staff, work from home, and sell into markets anywhere in the world. This is transformational. It is transformational infrastructure that this Government is backing, and Labour voted against it because Labour does not support rural New Zealand and it does not support families in small-town New Zealand getting ahead, and the National Government does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EBut it does not stop there. We are rolling out ultra-fast broadband. We are supporting better water infrastructure. We are supporting better roading networks to ensure that our goods can get to market. We have put in place, for the first time, an exclusive economic zone protection regime. Nine years under Labour and the Greens\u2014did they care about putting rules in place to protect the exclusive economic zone? Absolutely not\u2014absolutely not. The National-led Government is the one that introduced rules to protect the exclusive economic zone. The National-led Government is the one that introduced the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management. The National-led Government is the one that introduced the Waste Minimisation Act and is reducing waste in our landfills. This is a Government of action; that is a Government of ruination. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022d168e3da60344dc790789edc34bf3fe1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d168e3da60344dc790789edc34bf3fe1\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014West Coast - Tasman):\u003C/span\u003E There were three points in the speech that has just been made by the Minister Amy Adams. There are two points of agreement, and one of clarification. Firstly, she said that every day the difference between the parties on that side and this side becomes clearer, and I say \u201CThank God for that.\u201D New Zealanders are not that stupid. They know that that side has delivered empty promises of 170,000 new jobs, and promises of prosperity\u2014for whom? The second thing\u2014and I will agree with her\u2014is that the Government thinks that it will reach surplus in 2014-15. That may be the case, but the question is for whom. It will not be for the average Kiwi, I can tell you that, but for your greedy, wealthy mates\u2014Mr Assistant Speaker, not yours, but National\u2019s. The third point is the outrageous exaggeration that we would have incurred $100 billion in debt for this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EBill English admitted in the House today that the National Government will incur a debt of $61 billion for this country\u2014$61 billion\u2014under his current plan. The previous speaker, Amy Adams, also made great claims about how the Government had rebalanced and done great things for the productive sector, and what the Resource Management Act is going to do. I will quote Business and Economic Research Ltd: \u201CGrowth in the non-tradeable or inward-facing side of the economy has outstripped the tradeable sector, which has not really grown at all over the past four years.\u201D Those are the facts. The National Government\u2014the wonderful champion of the farming and productive sectors\u2014has done absolutely nothing to assist with their growth and development. Those facts speak for themselves. The tradable sector is the sector that Bill English said when he came in in 2009 he was going to rebalance the economy to benefit, and, in fact, in 2010\u2014I think a colleague in the House today said\u2014he mentioned rebalancing so many times in his Budget speech. He does not mention it now, because the only rebalancing that is being done under the National Government is to tip the table in favour of all those people who have wealth and who have privilege. It is not even possible for the crumbs to fall up the table to those poor people who do not have any capital. It has not just been hands-off; it has been hands-on in favour of the wealthy. This Budget does absolutely nothing to rebalance the economy either in favour of the tradable sector or in a way that helps the average, hard-working Kiwi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWe have a two-speed economy. We have an economy for the haves, and another economy for the have-nots. We have had tax cuts for the rich from the first Budget of the National Government, and we had GST imposed on the poor. On every single thing they spend money on, they have paid more GST and more tax. The wealthy, on the other hand, can siphon off money into areas where GST is not incurred\u2014that one single advantage. We have had increased opportunities for people importing into this country under the high dollar, and we have had increasing barriers and hurdles and challenges for anyone exporting. Where, Mr English, is the help for the tradable sector in that area? We have had increasing profits for home speculators and decreasing opportunities for the average New Zealander to buy a home. Well, we had in the last Budget some token movement, the Government says, in favour of those people struggling to buy a home. We know that it simply will not work. You need to build houses on the ground, not simply make it harder for people coming in at the bottom end to buy a house. That is what the Government has done with the new deposit ratios. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe National Party says it has plans. In fact, the previous speaker, Amy Adams, said a wonderful thing about spending on infrastructure. Well, there are roading plans for projects of National Party significance, but they are all around the cities, not out in the rural areas, and we had no further funding in that area from this Budget. Ask the regional council chairs and the mayors in the South Island what they think about the current system of allocating funding for roading. They are being squeezed. They know that the productive areas of Southland, out on the West Coast, and in Canterbury are not getting the funding for roading that they should do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWe have got in education a determination by a pig-headed Government to put in place National Party standards. Well, the Government sold it very quietly as \u201Cnational standards\u201D, but they are National Party standards. The parents out there who think that kindly thought that they are getting some equal opportunity to measure their child against someone from another island or another school or whatever, north to south, east to west, have simply been hoodwinked once again. We have seen recently\u2014and there are delays, I understand, in publishing the first outcomes of the National Party standards in education\u2014what we call \u201Cmoderation\u201D, e-asTTle, and now a new PaCT tool. If you talk to principals in your electorate\u2014and there might be a few over there who do\u2014they are horrified with the manipulation of the National Party standards in education, which will undermine the goodwill, the high quality, and the commitment in education that have driven our system to be one of the best in the world. It is stupidity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWe need a Government with a plan. What we have got at the moment is a Minister of Finance and a Prime Minister who think they are steering the economy in the right direction. Well, the analogy I use is of putting someone in a trolley cart at the top of a hill\u2014we put them up there with zero Government debt\u2014giving them the ropes, and letting gravity take the trolley downhill. Mr English thinks that steering around the corners is achieving the goal. The fact is that we need a Government that drives the economy, not just steers it. That is what Labour will do. In driving an economy, we will be utilising more technology than a trolley cart, not relying solely on gravity to take us forward, and not thinking that just steering around the corners is going to deliver the benefits to this country into the future. We need someone driving\u2014someone who can brake, can accelerate, can overcome the hurdles, can compensate for the inevitable challenges that are thrown up in front of this country in an economic sense. But Bill English thinks that the market and gravity will take this country to where it needs to go. It will not. That is why we have a plan. The National Party has never had a plan. It relies on the market and it relies on its mates to deliver it the best outcomes. The only thing the National Government has done for the tradable sector or the trading sector is increase the turnover on the New Zealand Exchange by allowing, firstly, Fonterra units, and by then putting our assets on to the New Zealand Exchange so that traders can make a small profit and a small fortune. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe tradable sector that needs help is the farmers out there. What did this Budget do for them? Well, in biosecurity we saw a cut of $6 million to front-line services. People have not picked up on this yet, but they will, because in the agribusiness sector biosecurity has been identified time and time again as the No. 1 threat to our economy, to our biodiversity, to every single part of our economy that relies on tourism and relies on primary production, and, indeed, to protecting our biodiversity. This Government has just cut the funding to biosecurity. It has done well to try to bury that in the Budget, but it will become apparent. Its first Budget cut was $2 million, and then it has tried to make that up by the restructuring of the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry into the Ministry for Primary Industries, cutting out a few people in policy, and saying that all is well. Last week exposed the flaws and the problems within the Ministry for Primary Industries. The next weeks will expose the flaws in biosecurity, because this Government has cut the funding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe Novopay debacle has put the joint system of computer control and information sharing\u2014the Joint Border Management System\u2014on hold. The Government has even mucked up that. But front-line biosecurity systems have been cut because of this Budget, and our economy is at risk. There are 1.5 million tonnes of palm kernel coming into this country every year from countries where foot-and-mouth disease is endemic. Mark my words, this Government has failed in the area of biosecurity. It has failed to protect primary producers up and down this country. We are sitting on a knife edge. If we do not keep out some of those pests and diseases, this economy will collapse, and it will be the National Government that will be responsible for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u002291a66171c66f4b6088b467eaeed43f84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291a66171c66f4b6088b467eaeed43f84\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS TREMAIN (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E The opportunities for all New Zealanders presented by this Budget are exciting, and I say that not lightly. The opportunities presented in this Budget for all New Zealand are exciting, and I am proud to be part of this Government\u2014absolutely proud. This Government is prepared to grab the opportunities that will enable all Kiwis to benefit from this Budget. We are delivering that through our clear plan\u2014a clear plan to rebuild Christchurch, to responsibly manage the Government\u2019s finances, to build a more competitive and productive economy, and to deliver better public services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe crazy thing is that the Opposition\u2014Labour, the Greens, and New Zealand First\u2014will vote against every part of this Budget. So let us go through it in some detail: to rebuild Christchurch, one of our principal objectives\u2014the Opposition will vote against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b85ff3d2c0a4d9aa8e25f103d7c8a2d\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: Failed. Too slow. Not enough. People are dissatisfied. Don\u2019t hold that up as an example. That\u2019s a failure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b53ec927b60c41318c7198f1fbac1c2e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: It will vote against the $40 billion that this country will spend down in Christchurch, through this Government, to put that beautiful city back on her feet. And Mr Denis O\u2019Rourke will vote against that. He will vote against Christchurch and helping to get her back on her feet in this Budget. Shame on you, Mr O\u2019Rourke. Let us think about that for a moment, because it is a huge investment from this country. Forty billion dollars is about $100,000 per citizen down in Christchurch. It is something we have to do as a country. But the Opposition, including New Zealand First, will vote against this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe second part of our plan for all New Zealanders is to responsibly manage the Government\u2019s finances. In that regard I think we are making great progress, albeit there is still work to do. Just a few years ago we were staring down the barrel of an $18 billion deficit, and 2014-15 will see us get across the line into a surplus position. If we are able to achieve that, we will be one of the few Western countries in the world to be able to achieve it. That is absolutely fantastic. It is proved by the facts, the actuals. We are actually improving on the forecasts. We are holding our expenses on track, and our revenue is actually above and better than what we are forecasting. That is on the back of 3 percent growth last year, and growth is forecast to go forward again. That will allow us to keep our debt down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ESo for Mr Damien O\u2019Connor to stand and say that this Budget would not benefit all New Zealanders is absolute rubbish. It will hold our debt at no higher than 38 percent of GDP, and then we have a goal of getting it back down to 20 percent. And Mr O\u2019Rourke, again, will vote against that in this Budget. Shame on you, Mr O\u2019Rourke. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EWhat that is actually delivering, and the really exciting thing\u2014because it is tough; often employment is an indicator lagging behind economic growth\u2014is what we saw in the first quarter of this year. It is exciting news: the unemployment rate dropping from 6.9 percent down to 6.2 percent. That meant 38,000 additional jobs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d1c5616595b459d89ba3cdd581fe521\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: How many percent above your targets was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2763d36c5d44853b44d449107846499\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: What about the 170,000?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245e905d2648a462bba2293c7da50988c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014into the economy in the first quarter. Opposition members do not like that, do they? It does not go with their story, to see us actually delivering jobs. And, again, they will vote against that. In terms of restoring the economy back to surplus, Opposition members\u2014Mr O\u2019Rourke, Labour, and the Greens\u2014are against it. They do not want us back in surplus, they do not want us bringing our debt back, and they do not want the economy growing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe third part of our plan for all New Zealanders is to build a more competitive and productive economy. That is being driven strongly by our Business Growth Agenda. Today I want to focus particularly on building export markets, because that is a big and important focus of growing the economy. I want to focus particularly on my responsibilities as Associate Minister of Tourism in that regard. As a country we have now set a goal of getting from 30 percent to 40 percent of GDP through our exports. That is a huge task to take on, but tourism can deliver strongly in that area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EOur Business Growth Agenda has a number of initiatives that we have been ticking off as we go forward, including a real focus on growing the Asian markets. That is exciting. The opportunities out of Asia are just absolutely fantastic. We are spending $10 million per year on a major events fund, to bring events to this country. New Zealand First will vote against that as well. We have got a convention centre off the ground, and not only in Auckland; we have got convention centre plans for Christchurch and for Queenstown. The Opposition will vote against them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EOur M\u0101ori Tourism Action Plan is very exciting. The leveraging of the Hobbit movies has been huge for this country, and is actually growing more tourism, particularly from our traditional markets such as Germany. We have rolled out the Cycle Trail\u2014a $50 million investment into one of the most exciting tourism initiatives that we have ever seen in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228819d6f8350c429cb15bcb235f9a06e8\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve got to be joking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022405ddb73b2624ad38b6f2227efad5717\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Just to go out and ride\u2014try this, Mr O\u2019Rourke. Go out and try cycling on one of these. I know it would be difficult for you, but actually go and try it, and see the New Zealanders and the international tourists who are just loving that. We are also bringing new and improved airline services into the country, with the likes of Hawaiian Airlines flying in here now, giving us direct routes up into mainland United States. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThat is what we have been doing. The exciting thing is that this Budget delivers $158 million on top of our existing spend into the tourist industry. That is phenomenal\u2014a 40 percent increase in the Budget. And do you know why that is? This initiative will drive growth across our country. It will drive the opportunities that we are trying to achieve through our plan. We are actually investing in this for all New Zealanders. So let us have a quick look at that. There is $24.5 million to support growth in our existing markets. So we are not throwing the baby out with the bathwater; we still have markets like the United Kingdom, the United States of America, Japan, Germany, Australia, and China\u2014our key traditional markets\u2014and we are going to invest more money to bring those markets to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe exciting news is the investment of $44.5 million into three emerging markets\u2014three new emerging markets\u2014of India, Indonesia, and Latin America. These are wonderful opportunities. I know that my colleague here Mr Bakshi is really excited about the opportunity to bring lots of Indian tourists down here to New Zealand, on our shoulder season. I think that is fantastic. They do not tend to come here so much in the middle of our main season but in the shoulder season. That helps us to grow the markets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E We are investing $20 million to target high-value spending visitors, because the trend historically in the last few years has been more visitors but actually lower spending, so we really want to focus on that high-value end of the market. We are investing $34 million to bring new business events down here, to support the convention centres and to support a range of events throughout the country, which, again, are exciting opportunities to grow the economy, to grow our export dollars. But, also, another $28 million is part of that $158 million for the tourism growth partnership, investing and helping to add value to the tourism industry, and, once again, grow our export earnings from that. The Opposition will vote against that initiative. It will vote against jobs in this country. It is unbelievable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EI just want to finish with the fourth plank of our plan, and that is to deliver better public services. Once again, the Opposition will vote against this as well. Despite tough economic times, the Government has held itself accountable to lift service levels across the State sector. I mean, when you are faced with many departments\u2014such as my own, the Department of Internal Affairs; a wonderful department\u2014that have had to deliver service increases in a period when they have also had to deliver an 8 to 10 percent efficiency dividend, that is a remarkable achievement, and I want to compliment my team at the Department of Internal Affairs on what they have been able to achieve. But during the same period they have also rolled out some pretty amazing new services. A good example is the passports online service, which just yesterday achieved 70,000 online renewals\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f227612d3a7a4c9181b52bab0736790d\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd2d5fc3375a45878df986ccd4120746\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014within a 5-month period\u201470,000. That is at a 19 percent reduction on the level of cost for passports than we previously did, and, actually, it is, on average, a 3-day turn-round time. That is a remarkable achievement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edc2c67e6921472ba7d8bfe6af96059d\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3f977bc876f4a818dd2ce7f959724a7\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: It took 3 days, on average, to turn round those passports. So this Budget will also deliver some key funding in there for result area 10, which my department is responsible for. Our goal there is to lift the ability for all Kiwis to liaise, to work with Government, on an online system. So our aim is to get the common transactions up to 70 percent of citizens using that system by 2017. We have got specific funding in the Budget to do that\u2014$2.9 million of collaborative funding across the departments to work together to deliver better services for this country, and we are seeing great results. Already, within about 18 months we have seen an increase from 29 percent to 41 percent of people using online Government services. That is absolutely magic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EOn top of that, there is additional funding of $14.5 billion to roll out the igovt or the RealMe service, which will, once again, leverage up online services for this country, delivering better services for New Zealanders. And, once again, the Opposition will vote against that. I am excited about this Budget, I am excited about the future for New Zealand, and I think that the opportunities ahead of us for our country are like never before. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u00229d970b388e664eb4a3b021acc38a51ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d970b388e664eb4a3b021acc38a51ab\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E The objectives of the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill are a major Budget issue, and housing, as we all know, is a major concern in many parts of New Zealand. The bill represents the Government\u2019s solutions to fix the housing crisis in this country. It is, of course, about time that the Government acted. It has fiddled while the housing market in New Zealand burns hot, especially in Auckland and Christchurch and several other places. Very few first home seekers can now afford to even dream of buying a home in this country. The great Kiwi expectation of a homeowning democracy lies in ashes. The Government is now belatedly trying to conjure up a phoenix from those ashes, but it is far too little and it is far too late. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe basic problem with the Government\u2019s actions is that they are under-reactive to a huge problem suddenly realised. It is based on simple expediency rather than a balanced approach. It favours developers\u2019 agendas and sidelines local democracy. It is ad hoc rather than strategic. It is careless about good planning, and substitutes it with quick-fix band-aid solutions. It is superficial rather than well considered. It is short term and not an enduring long-term plan, which New Zealand needs. No doubt profiteers are already buying up land that might be used for special housing areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe Government has assumed that freeing up the land supply will work. But will that really mean lower home prices? Will it even mean that the rate of increase of home prices will be curbed? There is no apparent research upon which the Government has based that assumption that freeing up land for development will really assist with housing affordability, and it is housing affordability that is the real issue. First home owners will see no real assistance to them buying a first home in the Budget provisions that have been presented to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EBut there is some good. New Zealand First supports the concept of special housing areas in regions or districts identified by the Minister of Housing on the basis of the criteria proposed, but it would allow special housing areas only on the basis of a genuine accord with local government, or where there is genuine disagreement and not contrived disagreement by the Minister acting alone. Because the Minister alone will have the power to create special housing areas if there is no accord, it is necessary that such accords be genuinely negotiated and that councils not be bullied into them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe way the bill is drafted, it will be an \u201Cagree or else\u201D scenario for councils, so an important question arises as to what constitutes disagreement, because it is that fact of disagreement that empowers the Minister to act alone. The bill should therefore state clearly that both the Minister and the council concerned have concluded on reasonable grounds that an accord is not possible, and the bill falls short on those issues. There should also be a provision for partial or limited accords so that the Minister cannot simply assume the power to act alone on the basis of perhaps a single point of disagreement when there is agreement on most matters. We would want to see at least some opportunity for local, public consultation by the council before finalising an agreement, even if consultation is more limited than might usually be expected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EWe would also expect that the special housing areas would be approved within the established Resource Management Act principles, rather than within the compromised bill the Government is currently pushing on to us. We see no need for the panic measures of the kind promoted by the Government in the proposed legislation. Our main concern would be the loss of local democracy, with too much power given to the Minister of Housing. Of course, we in Christchurch are very, very used to that in the current circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EIn practice, developers would be looking for quick, ticky-tacky developments rather than quality housing. There is a risk that developers would continue to optimise profits, with large houses on large sections, not the modest housing that New Zealand needs and that first home owners can afford. We also do not see any reference or intention to try to integrate these special housing areas into transport, health, and other strategies, when New Zealand needs a much more integrated policy framework for all of those things. In other words, it is not a strategic approach; it is a quick-fix, ad hoc approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First would also oppose the width of the proposals concerning plan changes. We think these are too likely to completely compromise district plans. They need to be consistent with plan objectives. Coming from Christchurch, I would have to say that we should be learning lessons from that city. There were far too many developments there for housing in inappropriate areas\u2014housing built in areas that we all knew were subject to liquefaction, subject to ground damage, subject to rockfall in an earthquake, subject to sea level rise, or subject to flooding. The developments should not have gone on in those places. So it is very important that these sorts of proposals for special housing areas should be consistent with the objectives in district plans, otherwise we are going to risk repeating the mistakes that we have seen the effects of in the city of Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EOverall, we think that we need to balance speed\u2014which is needed\u2014with quality, because that is just as important a consideration. Although the special housing areas are an appropriate measure\u2014but only with the amendments I have suggested\u2014I would ask how this measure alone would really help homeowners seeking their first homes. How would it help them to provide the deposit that is necessary? How would it help them even if they could find a deposit to finance a new home? The answer is that there is actually nothing in the Government\u2019s proposals that goes anywhere near far enough to adequately address those sorts of issues. The expectation that making more land available within district or city plans will bring prices down enough is fraught. It addresses only availability, and only in a limited way. It does not adequately address affordability at all. Supply alone will not result in solving the affordability issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EMuch more is needed, and New Zealand First has much more comprehensive policies for housing. Our first objective is to simply see that homeownership is within the reach of all New Zealanders. We would set up a special purpose agency for those purposes, and we believe it should establish a land bank\u2014land actually purchased by the Government to make it available for housing in the proposed special housing areas. We want to see long-term agreements for sale and purchase made available to first home seekers at an initial concessionary interest rate so that they can buy a section without having to come up with the full capital cost up front. They could then pay it off over 25 years, and they would get title to the land so that they could then borrow from their bank to build a home on the section. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe cost breakdown for a new home is about 36 percent for the average cost of a section, 4 percent for consents and permits, and the remaining 60 percent for the house itself and associated costs. So under the New Zealand First policy, a first home seeker would be able to avoid over one-third of the total capital cost up front, with the long-term agreement for sale and purchase of the land on the initial concessionary rate of 2 percent that we propose. We also think that there needs to be a comprehensive New Zealand housing strategy addressing a whole range of things, such as the role of the Earthquake Commission; compulsory insurance; quality housing provisions such as earthquake-proofing, leakproofing, and insulation; and a whole range of other things. In the end, New Zealand First will support the bill, because there is some good in it, but it does not go far enough. It is a move in the right direction\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cebfc3068534e4da7491af01011eecd\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt the honourable member. His time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u00223e15e0141e404d66a56c5d38bb7f5c3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e15e0141e404d66a56c5d38bb7f5c3b\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E This Budget tells us something very critical about this Parliament. It compares the parties that have a vision for New Zealand with the parties opposite, which are visionless for New Zealand. I say they are visionless for New Zealand because they oppose everything this Government tries to do to help grow the economy, and they oppose everything this Government tries to do to help New Zealanders get back into jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThis National-led Government is all about getting on with the job. We are all about helping to grow the economy. We are all about helping to cut red tape for New Zealanders and seeing more New Zealanders get back into work. The contrast on the other side, and what we have heard throughout this whole debate, is a Green-Labour-led option under which New Zealanders would see a recipe for more debt and more inflation in the economy. Those parties would be printing a whole lot more money to really stymie the economy, and we would see even more Government intervention in the lives of New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand public has shown us, through a number of opinion polls now, that they absolutely approve of this Government\u2019s proposals for the future. They absolutely approve of the Budget that Bill English has put together for New Zealanders. It is a good Budget. It is a good Budget because it shows us on a track back to surplus. It shows us carefully managing the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EWe like to hear from Opposition members, because they are often deluded when they talk about the economy. They like to think that the global financial crisis did not exist. They like to think that Labour has a plan that would have succeeded. Well, actually, the plan that Labour had, which it left this Government with, was a plan for a whole lot more debt. It was a plan that would have left New Zealanders with a decade\u2019s worth of projected deficit. If Opposition members do not want to admit it, they should just look at some of the graphs that came out with the Budget. The projected debt in the 2020s, under this Government, looks to be about 10 percent of GDP. In the 2020s, under the plan left by Michael Cullen and the Opposition, debt was projected to reach 60 percent of GDP. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f7b64af93f44379941ad1b9b4696190\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Zero Crown debt\u2014that\u2019s what you inherited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec4e9f82ecb745e2bfe2e5568ebb3494\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, Mr Cosgrove. No, no, Mr Cosgrove. You need to spend some more time in Waimakariri. Actually, debt was expected to be 60 percent of GDP in the 2020s. Have a look at the graphs. He is deluded\u2014he is deluded. He just does not understand. He cannot read a graph. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThe party opposite left us with a decade\u2019s worth of projected deficits. It would not have been good for New Zealand. We are getting back to surplus next year. David Parker likes to joke around with us and say that, actually, Labour would have got back to surplus as well. The only way that Labour would have got back to surplus would be with Russel Norman\u2019s printing machine. That is the only way it would have got back to surplus. Russel Norman would have printed all the money that it needed, so that it would not have to rack up the debt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EFortunately for New Zealand, Michael Cullen had not thought about printing more money, but had Labour ever coalesced with the Greens and had Russel Norman as Minister of Finance\u2014which is probably what we will see in about 10 years\u2019 time\u2014there would have been a whole lot more money printed. Yes, it might have got us back to surplus, but it would have been at the expense of New Zealanders, who would have seen huge inflation, and it would not have been good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EBusiness confidence is improving in this country. Our companies are becoming more competitive. Wages are growing and inflation is low. We have excellent growth, considering the economic circumstances that the world has found itself in. New Zealanders are approving of that plan. New Zealanders are seeing more jobs created. Almost 60,000 new jobs have been created in the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad7172fe7e184d97935e18ea69253804\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Where? Where? Ninety thousand kids unemployed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271e481ae805f4507bf973550bd8a2f0c\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Cosgrove wants to ask where the jobs are. Well, let us just go through the list of things that Mr Cosgrove and his mates on the other side oppose. These are the job creation schemes that they oppose. Every time we want to come up with ideas for new jobs, those members oppose them. They oppose the Auckland convention centre, which is going to see thousands of jobs created. They are opposed to that. The Hobbit law\u2014they were opposed to that. That saw a whole lot of jobs created. They are opposed to everything that Amy Adams wants to do in the resource management sector that will make it easier for businesses to operate and that will make it easier for New Zealanders to employ people. They are opposed to oil and gas exploration. If the Greens ever get into Government, the whole of Northland will probably be shut down, because there will be no road to get up to Northland, and everything that the people up there want to do to try to create jobs will be shut down as well. The Opposition wants to see more costs go on to New Zealand businesses through the emissions trading scheme, and it opposes jobs being created in many of the manufacturing areas. A Labour-led Government would be a disaster for New Zealand. This country knows that the Budget and the track that we are on are good for New Zealand, and it absolutely supports it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EI am glad that the previous speaker, Denis O\u2019Rourke, touched on housing, because I am actually quite excited about the plan that this Government has for housing affordability in New Zealand. It has a plan for housing affordability particularly in Auckland, through the Auckland Housing Accord legislation. I heard an unusual comment from Denis O\u2019Rourke. He tried to tell us that land supply has almost no impact at all on house prices. The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment put out a very good document recently. It was about residential land availability in Auckland. It had an excellent graph. I am sure that it will be difficult for members to see across the House. Clayton Cosgrove probably does not have his glasses on. He might want to put them on. The document has a very good graph, which pretty much shows that as the land availability in Auckland slowly declined, through the land strangulation policies of local government, the cost of land in Auckland gradually increased.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E It is not hard to see that housing supply actually has a very big impact on the cost of land. You know, the Opposition likes to think that it is going to be able to provide houses for Aucklanders at $300,000 each. Actually, roughly, right now, section costs are about $325,000 per section, but we are working on it. We are working on it because we recognise that land supply is a big issue. We recognise that we need to have more houses coming on board for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThe Auckland Housing Accord that has been agreed with Len Brown and the legislation that is going through Parliament will be hugely beneficial for New Zealanders. I am disappointed\u2014I am disappointed\u2014that some parties in this House are opposed to that, because the reality is that we need to build more houses in Auckland. We need to build more houses in New Zealand. At the moment, roughly only 3,500 houses are being built in Auckland every year. That simply is not enough. We are going to pretty much triple that\u2014actually, quadruple that\u2014to an average of 13,000 houses per year to be built under the housing accord that has been signed with the Auckland Council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EI have heard some comments about the legislation that is going through, and there has been some discussion out there. I simply say to those members in Auckland and those members of the Auckland Council who are opposed to the Auckland Housing Accord and the legislation that we just have to get on with the job. We need to stop fluffing around. We need to stop delaying addressing the housing issues in Auckland, and, actually, working together with the Auckland Council is the best way to achieve that. But this Government knows that if local government is not prepared to come on board and work as intensively as needs to be done to address the housing issues in New Zealand, then we will just have to box on ahead and get it done for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders do not want to see any more delays. New Zealanders do not want to see the housing issue being left for much longer. New Zealanders, and particularly Aucklanders and the types of people whom I represent in my electorate of Botany, want to see more houses coming on board. They want to see more land being made available, and they want to see red tape being cut. They do not want to see a continuation of the delays and the problems that we have had in the past. Land strangulation policies in Auckland, where local government, through the Resource Management Act process, has deliberately decided it wants to constrain the availability of land for Aucklanders, have absolutely led to a lack of supply of land, which has led to housing costs increasing, which has led to a poor situation for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EWe are working on addressing the cost of building materials. We are also working on addressing some of the social housing issues that we have got. There is a remarkable programme that Minister Smith is working on to get more bedrooms and more State housing coming on board. We are spending a whole lot of money to insulate housing. We have got a very good story to tell about housing. It is going to be hugely beneficial for New Zealanders in the future. I challenge the Opposition to get on board. I challenge the Opposition to stop saying no to everything. I challenge the Opposition to stop saying no to more growth. [Interruption] I tell Rajen Prasad to realise that New Zealanders want more growth and they want more jobs. They do not want more debt, they do not want the printing of money, and they do not want a Labour-Greens Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002200d630b616cf46ffa875ceb7967d3fef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200d630b616cf46ffa875ceb7967d3fef\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will tell you what this Opposition will say no to. It will say that, no, it is not good enough that there are 146,000 people unemployed. This Opposition will stand with New Zealanders and say that, no, it is not good enough that there are 90,000 young people not in education or training. This Opposition will say that, no, it is not good enough that this Government did not get off its backside and utilise what is a disaster in Christchurch but what is also a major opportunity, and what is also the world\u2019s biggest training scheme, to train the 30,000 or 40,000 apprentices, say, that we need in Christchurch. Three years from that disaster they would have finished their apprenticeships and be the tradespeople we need, rather than businesses, as they do now, because they cannot wait for this Government to wake up, having to import our Irish brothers and sisters, our Filipino brothers and sisters, and others to come to fill the skills gap because this Government was asleep at the wheel and would not take advantage of the opportunity out of that tragedy. So we say no to that member Jami-Lee Ross to those things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn 2008, when that crowd over there took office, it said that we were going to have\u2014remember\u2014the brighter future. There was a grand plan. There was a vision. Remember all those wonderful little commercials with the Prime Minister at, I think it was, the local private school\u2014ironic though that is. At the same time as it throws a couple of million bucks to kids who need a feed in the morning, it gives 11 million bucks in the Budget to private schools. That is one thing. But remember the vision. Remember the brighter future. This, apparently, is the party of sound, financial managers. This is the party, it said, that understands our new business. This is the party that could run businesses like State-owned enterprises. Well, I am glad the Minister for State Owned Enterprises is in here. That man could not run a bath, let alone a State-owned enterprise, with his mismanagement of, for instance, Solid Energy. He grins away over there in his little Cheshire cat way. You sad little man. That man was asleep on the couch in his office in the Beehive as the Crown Ownership Monitoring Unit and Treasury kept telling him for over 2 years that Solid Energy, which under a Labour administration was an export award - winning company returning tens of millions of dollars to the taxpayer every year, was in trouble. He could have woken up, picked up the newspaper, and worked out that the international price of coal was going down the gurgler. He could have then picked up the phone and called his former mate\u2014his former mate, after he was shafted\u2014Mr Palmer and said: \u201CWhat\u2019s plan B? How are we going to consolidate this asset, preserve it, and make sure that it is OK for the taxpayer in these tough financial times?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWell, the truth is that that Minister, just like this Budget, tinkered around, minced around, did not listen to the advice, knew it, and possibly did not read the reports, and, as a result, we now know that his Government and his Prime Minister are now considering letting the whole show fall over. If that was not bad enough, there is $395 million and counting down the gurgler thanks to his mismanagement, and over 500 jobs lost. The last speaker talked about job creation and he talked about some programmes\u2014a convention centre. But he also was going to list for us all these jobs that have been created. Remember the cycleway? I think there were a fish and chip shop and a bike shop that got a few jobs out of that. That went out the window. New Zealand was going to be the international financial centre of excellence\u2014remember that? Well, that went out the window as well. So there are 146,000 people on the scrap heap in a two-speed economy in this country\u2014some of the people doing very well; many of our people doing very badly and scraping for it\u2014as a legacy of this Government. There are 500 Solid Energy workers and counting down the gurgler. No more can Tony Ryall or John Key or Bill English ever claim to be sound financial managers, when they went to sleep and watched a company, the people\u2019s asset, go down the gurgler. The last speaker talked about an auction. Well, I predict this. Solid Energy will be the biggest fire sale that we have seen in our time as they allow that company to tip over. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIt is true that New Zealand is in a two-speed regime, a two-speed economy. It is the case that we now have the haves and the have-nots\u2014big time. Let us look at jobs and the amount of jobs created. Well, since Steven Joyce became tertiary education and employment Minister, the Government says that there have been a few thousand jobs created. Where were the brighter future and the grand plan to actually assist the 146,000 people who are on the scrap heap thanks to these guys? This is a Government that inherited zero Crown debt. The last speaker\u2014I cannot remember his name\u2014talked about debt. Well, I will tell you what the Government inherited: zero Crown debt and 9 years of surpluses\u2014not projections, not rumours, not spin, but facts\u2014zero Crown debt and 9 years of surpluses, which the Government then mismanaged and squandered. So those members cannot stand up today and crow about being sound financial managers, when you look at their litany of disasters, particularly the State-owned enterprise Minister, who will go down in history as the worst State-owned enterprise Minister in living history. Since the promulgation of State-owned enterprises as a piece of legislation, he is the worst and biggest mismanager of State-owned enterprises. He sat there and twiddled his little thumbs, he did not listen to the advice, he did nothing, and people are paying for that, of course. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThen we look at things like housing affordability, which is skyrocketing all over the country. We cannot blame the earthquake for what is happening in Auckland or other parts of the country. If you look at the earthquake in Christchurch and the so-called grand plan, I say to those members over there that 3 years down the track there is still a large number of the population where I live who are hurting because they cannot get their Earthquake Commission claims, because they cannot unlock their insurance money, and because they cannot actually take charge\u2014not through inability or through laziness or anything like that\u2014and they simply cannot get their hands on the levers to take control of their own lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E But what does this crowd do in the Budget? Well, not a lot\u2014a bit of money sprinkled here and a bit of money sprinkled there. In some ways, you could call this Budget a bit of a \u201CHolyoake Budget\u201D, because old \u201CKiwi Keith\u201D was known to be a tinkerer. He tinkered around the edges. I think he is a sort of hero for the Prime Minister. But \u201CKiwi Keith\u201D and Sir Keith Holyoake\u2019s Government took the record for just tinkering around the edges, doing a few populist things, not actually upsetting the apple cart, and just mowing along\u2014you know, \u201CShe\u2019ll be right. We can hoodwink the people.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ELook at child poverty. Child poverty is a disgrace in this country. We have five measures, I am told\u2014five, I believe\u2014to actually gauge and measure the extent of child poverty, although I do think that if you walk around the streets of many of our cities, or most or all of our cities, you can get a pretty good gauge very, very quickly. It is a disgrace. There is a saying that if you measure it, you can do something about it, because you actually know the quantum of the problem. But this crowd gets up and will not even use a measure of child poverty. It will not even take the abacus out, in Gerry Brownlee\u2019s case, or the calculator, and actually say: \u201CWe will measure the quantum that is child poverty. We will put a definition around it, we will measure it, we will front it, and we will do something about it because we know the extent that it is.\u201D These guys will not do even that. They get up in the House day after day and just simply refuse to use any measure to calculate the disgrace that they have put in place in this country in respect of child poverty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EAction is needed, we know, around superannuation. Superannuation costs have already increased from $7.3 billion in 2008 to $10.2 billion this year. We know that the cost of superannuation will exceed the cost of primary, secondary, and tertiary education within 2 years, yet what is the Government\u2019s answer to that? I have been in the United States recently with colleagues from across the House. It is a huge issue in the United States. That country is just starting to grapple with how it deals with its key entitlement programme. Here this Government believes that the way you secure superannuation is to just let it go and let it blow out, whereas we on this side of the House say that it needs to be reformed, it needs to be protected, and it needs to be stabilised. But we have got to make a few hard decisions for people my age and a wee bit younger, in terms of what contribution we make. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo I ask where is the vision? I say to the Minister for State Owned Enterprises, who will jump up in a second and take a call, that this is his opportunity, as the worst Minister for State Owned Enterprises in our history, who has presided over more mismanagement than any other, to actually explain why it was he was asleep at the wheel, why it was\u2014the wrist will be OK, mate\u2014that he did nothing, why it was that he took no advice, why it is that he will not be accountable, and why it is that he will not even front to the media with some answers, because, Minister, people want answers. They want to know why it is that there is $395 million that they will have to cough up, and why over 500 people and counting are unemployed because of his mismanagement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022dce550be35664eb59453534220291f41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dce550be35664eb59453534220291f41\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the debate be now adjourned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e244e723d7ee4cc2b9c018d293c8c04a\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e04b8b62b7714802b56f57f048813ab5\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000404\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 28 May on the Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill, the Auctioneers Amendment Bill, the Crimes Amendment Bill (No 2), the Criminal Disclosure Amendment Bill, the Evidence Amendment Bill, the Juries Amendment Bill, the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill, the Sentencing Amendment Bill, and the Summary Offences Amendment Bill.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u00221a17575398bf48f0a4361f0b8a9ba1de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a17575398bf48f0a4361f0b8a9ba1de\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill and associated bills in their third and final reading. The laws governing criminal procedure are now over 50 years old and well out of date. The current criminal procedure system has been characterised by four key areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe first area is avoidable delays. We know that if court cases are drawn out to create problems for everybody in the system, you create problems for the victim, and the victim has the agony of the court case being drawn out. There are also problems for the defendant, and all defendants are innocent until proven guilty. Delays also create problems for the juries. People have busy lives that are interrupted and they are paid a minimum attendance fee to participate in our justice system. When there are excessive delays because of these inefficiencies, then people are less likely to be supportive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe second area is excessive complexity. With legislation being spread across several statutes and seven different categories of offence, it was described by the Law Commission as an impenetrable maze.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EExcessive cost is the third area, and that excessive cost is caused by inefficiencies. Wherever we can within the Public Service, this Government is keen to ensure that we reduce those inefficiencies to make sure that things are done right and they are done properly, but also that they are done efficiently. Our court system had problems, which meant that the court cases took longer, and we have an obligation to New Zealand to reduce those costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe fourth and last area is a reliance on paper-based systems. It does not make sense in a modern era, increasingly dominated by electronic technology, that we would not modernise that system. In response to such concerns, this Government passed the Criminal Procedure Act in 2011 and its 14 associated amendment Acts in October of 2011 to modernise and simplify criminal procedure. Reforming criminal procedure makes the justice system more responsive to the needs of victims and witnesses. Again, this is another milestone in National\u2019s commitment to overhaul the justice system and focus on victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EIn summarising, and finally, this has been a thorough process involving key stakeholders like the Law Commission, with the Associate Minister of Justice setting out some real changes in our justice system that will improve it considerably, including the changes made in Supplementary Order Paper 233. The reforms created in this legislation have the potential to free up 10,000 court sitting hours, with 31,200 fewer court events, 300 to 500 fewer jury trials, and a 6 to 9-week reduction in the average time to complete a jury trial. There was some controversy over this legislation in the sense that it provided a regulatory power that is commonly known at the \u201CHenry VIII\u201D clause, which is a power to make regulations that amend statutes. The Justice and Electoral Committee and the Minister involved, Chester Borrows, agreed that this was inappropriate, and it was taken out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThis legislation has progressed with a thorough process. It has been properly researched and carefully planned, and it will make a real difference. These reforms will ensure that a timely justice system is delivered for victims, witnesses, defendants, and the community. I commend these nine bills arising from the Criminal Procedure Legislation Bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EBills read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224d525c61b0d44a8c9433b9be6e69a113\u0022\u003EEducation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002259bd34ecb9e04748955e07d28a29e866\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000416\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 29 May.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a81c782bcfa64f28b58bbc96c57d4134\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 3 (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u00229c55d1f562b94c57b76642042643cd00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c55d1f562b94c57b76642042643cd00\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa, Mr Chair. As I was saying last night before we went to the break, I wanted to make sure that we understood that any conversation around the development of policy or procedures by the Ministry of Education with stakeholders must include the boards of trustees. It is the boards of trustees that hold the discipline hearings. This is something that is not well known to most people, because most people do not end up in front of a board of trustees for a discipline hearing. Very few children inside our school system end up inside this process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI want to clarify that when we call it a discipline hearing, it is somewhat misleading. The purpose of this process is to identify with an issue, make sure that all the evidence around the issue dealing with that student is put on to the table, and make sure that every effort is made by the school, the staff, and the board of trustees to provide the supports necessary to re-engage that student safely\u2014safely for themselves and safely for everybody else in the school\u2014with their education. So it is the boards of trustees at the end of the day that have the power under current legislation to implement random drug-testing, for example. Random drug-testing, or the ability to take bodily samples\u2014for example, urine tests\u2014was one of the conversations we had, and this goes to the commencement clause. This goes to the reason why very clear guidelines need to be worked out with all stakeholders prior to the commencement of these clauses, and one of those major stakeholders, if not the major stakeholder, is the boards of trustees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI was expressing my ill ease\u2014it was a conversation had, and Mr Sabin put in a lot of conversation around the surrender and retention parts of this Education Amendment Bill\u2014and I still carry some ill ease that the bill refers to teachers constantly, as opposed to boards of trustees in the legislation. Although the teachers are on the front line and there is an aspect of this bill that has been put into place to keep them safe, just as it has been put into place to keep students safe, the boards of trustees are actually the people who set those governance rules, who create those policies and then delegate down authority to implement those policies to staff through senior management. So at the end of the day, after much discussion, it was agreed by a majority in the Education and Science Committee that it was the teachers at the front line who needed to be referred to in the legislation. That was the recommendation of the officials. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI trust that that will work. I trust that teachers do not feel empowered by this legislation to go beyond the boundaries that they are delegated down to do by their boards of trustees, and I trust that prior to the commencement date the ministry will work closely with all those groups to make sure that we all clearly understand that this is about safety, not about restriction of freedom, and that this is about working together for the best outcomes for all our students, including those students who show up at our discipline hearings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThe other parts that we are discussing tonight are around the title of the bill. I did think that there is some room\u2014I mean, the Education Amendment Bill is a somewhat innocuous little title for this bill. So I have a couple of suggestions. One is the \u201CBill English Outlasts, Outwits, Outplays\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u00223d93a286bf404e4a9a9bf9059c41cfe1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d93a286bf404e4a9a9bf9059c41cfe1\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Education Amendment Bill\u2014let me pick up from where Tracey Martin was on this bill. The title of this bill is an innocuous one, is it not? The Education Amendment Bill\u2014it could be anything, but, actually, the title does not reflect the magnitude of change that is being proposed in this legislation. The changes are probably some of the biggest changes for decades. In particular, the changes around the charter schools are the ones that I wish to focus on, and I want to look at them in the context of the title and also look at what is being changed, and reflect that in the title.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe charter school provisions are providing for a number of things that Labour is strongly opposed to. They give schools the right to have unqualified and unregistered teachers, and that includes the principal of the charter school. It also means that the school will not have to follow the New Zealand Curriculum. So I have been reflecting on this title, the Education Amendment Bill, and thinking that if we are serious about this, and if the Government is so proud of this initiative, let us call it something that does reflect what this bill is actually about. It could be called the \u201CCharter Schools (Parents Don\u2019t Deserve to Have a Voice) Bill\u201D, because what this bill provides for is doing away with our democratic provisions in our school system, our elected boards of trustees that provide parents and the community with a say on what happens in their local school. That is all done away with. Instead, the sponsor of the school can determine what happens in that school. That includes, as I say, staff who are not necessarily qualified as teachers or indeed registered to teach. Maybe it could be called the \u201CCharter Schools (Profit Before Pupils) Bill\u2019, because what this bill does is allow schools to operate at a profit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EWe had quite a lot of discussion last night about why it is that this legislation excludes charter schools from coverage from the Official Information Act and the Ombudsmen Act. We had a lot of debate about what was excluded, in terms of the Official Information Act. It was pointed out by the Minister that those things that are in the contract of the charter school would be able to be accessed from the ministry by people using the Official Information Act if they needed to. But a lot of debate last night was about what information would and would not be included in that reporting against the contract. The information held by the school will not be covered by the Official Information Act. So I wonder whether perhaps an alternative title for the bill could be \u201CCharter Schools (Lack of Transparency and Accountability) Bill\u201D, because I think the fact is that information about what is going on in these schools, at least in part, will not be covered by the Official Information Act, and certainly the Ombudsman is not able to be used in relation to charter schools. I was not there for the submissions process, but I understand the Ombudsman was absolutely critical\u2014absolutely determinedly critical, in fact\u2014of what the Government was proposing here and the lack of transparency, the lack of accountability, in this legislation. I think \u201CCharter Schools (Lack of Transparency and Accountability) Bill\u201D may well be a good name for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI want to go back to where I started from. I am somebody who values education very highly, as I know my colleagues on this side of the Chamber do, and we recognise the importance of teachers and those who lead teachers\u2014principals\u2014and their very critical role in terms of delivering quality education. I think I am going to go with the title \u201CCharter School Students Don\u2019t Deserve Qualified and Registered Teachers Bill\u201D, because that is what is enabled by this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003ETeacher quality is something that those across the other side of the Chamber say they believe in. At a time when the Government claims it is focusing on increasing the quality of teaching\u2014in Budget 2012 the Government indicated that it intended to introduce a postgraduate qualification as a requirement for trainee teachers\u2014this bill allows charter schools to employ staff with no formal teaching qualifications at all. That is like saying that, in the end, anybody could teach. There are no specific requirements of teachers. There is no specific knowledge base. There are no particular competencies or skill requirements of teachers. In the end, perhaps if you are funny enough or engaging enough, you could teach. That is what it is really saying\u2014that this is not a real profession. Well, actually, we all know, if we are honest, that that is not true. We all know that that is not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EEven the principal of a charter school does not need to be a qualified teacher. You have to say to yourself\u2014and all of us, I am sure, visit schools\u2014that the role that is played by a principal as a leader of education and learning in a school is absolutely critical. A good principal has to understand what teachers do. They have to understand the learning environment. Having as a principal somebody who is not a qualified or registered teacher just does not make sense. I have to say that that just seems to me to reinforce the need to change the title of this bill to make it really clear to New Zealanders who hear about this legislation going through that it is not the innocuous Education Amendment Bill. This is the \u201CCharter School Students Don\u2019t Deserve Qualified and Registered Teachers Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThere is a unique set of skills that teachers require. Apparently the Prime Minister, on the other hand, said that people should not be \u201Chung up\u201D on the fact that teachers without qualifications will be able to teach New Zealand children in charter schools. So let us not be \u201Chung up\u201D about that, says the Prime Minister. But, actually, not that long ago that same Prime Minister was telling parents that it is not the class sizes that matter but the quality of the teaching that we are getting in our schools. How are we going to get this quality teaching if we are able to have unqualified and unregistered teachers across that school? It is astounding, really, that the Prime Minister thinks that those two statements go together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EPart of National\u2019s promise to improve teacher quality does not make sense, because it said that it wanted to improve teacher quality at the same time that it cut funding for teacher professional development by $15 million per year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235dd6738e528474aa91836044a7410b2\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Where is this speech going?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f58fbc6dfa974819880386d4a00c6691\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT\u003C/span\u003E: This speech is about what this bill is really about. It is not about the title, the Education Amendment Bill. My suggestion, if we are being honest, is that this bill should be called the \u201CCharter School Students Don\u2019t Deserve Qualified and Registered Teachers Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI know that the Government likes to say that teacher opposition to this bill is all because they are unionists and they are trying to protect their wages and conditions. I have been appalled, during the last term and the current term of this Government, by the way it thinks it is appropriate to attack teachers constantly, to undermine teachers, when we all know that the community actually values and respects teachers and that their job is critically important to the future social and economic development of this country. Let me say that it was not just teachers, teacher unions, principals, and principals\u2019 organisations that raised concerns about this bill and the lack of a requirement for qualified and registered teachers\u2014not at all. The National Council of Women, New Zealand\u2019s largest women\u2019s organisation, which is made up of branches from all around New Zealand and women from an absolutely diverse range of professions and organisations, in its submission to the Education and Science Committee was absolutely adamant that having unqualified and unregistered teachers in our schools was the wrong way to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a9311d147d64487aa5fe10d901b9674\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: They did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222857154ac7bd4eabae49bc73670deb5d\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT\u003C/span\u003E: It is not just about teachers. They did say that, Mr Bridges. Have a look at the submission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI just want to say that this concern and this disquiet about what is being proposed in this legislation are widely shared in the community\u2014by teachers and principals, yes indeed, but also by the wider community and the parents, who know what a difference teachers can make. If we are all honest\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6dfe03431db4b78b05ee8f67cad849a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6dfe03431db4b78b05ee8f67cad849a\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2105d1b8f6b4e5199a3dc351e6b7fd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2105d1b8f6b4e5199a3dc351e6b7fd7\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I really appreciate this opportunity, having spent the last hour on my back coughing when I would have liked to be critiquing. However, now is my one chance; I am going to have a go. I recognise that where we have got to is the commencement and title clauses of the Education Amendment Bill and I am really, really disappointed to be standing here at all on this particular issue, but it is par for the course. I do not think that children will get used to it, and I think that is the point. It is not actually about the business agenda; it is actually about our kids. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ELet us have a look at the title. I would agree with some of my colleagues that there should be a change of title. The Education Amendment Bill is a meaningless and innocuous title for something that is really the \u201CCharter for Disasters Bill\u201D. I would like to call it the \u201CCharters for Disasters Bill\u201D, or \u201CAccountability is Just a Secret Bill\u201D, because that is really what it is all about. It is about a disaster for education and it is about secrecy in terms of contracting, which may be perfectly acceptable for some businesses but actually has no bearing on education for our kids. The title is misleading and disingenuous, which is not usual in Parliament, but this one in particular does not tell the public what is happening here, which is probably one of the most profound shifts in the history of education legislation away from what it says in Part 1 of the Education Act 1989: \u201Cfree primary and secondary education\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u201CFree\u201D is such an interesting word, and \u201Cfree\u201D is what the schools in Britain are called. That is their title: free schools. In America they are called charter schools. When we are talking about the title of this bill both those words need to be considered, because Aotearoa New Zealand in the 1980s introduced charters for every single school. What we did not do is introduce secrecy, privatisation, unregistered teachers, no boards of trustees, any hours that the school chooses to set, a contract that is only with the Government, a sponsor who has no educational background, and so on. That is what \u201Ccharter\u201D meant to the citizens of this country. It was not perfect\u2014Tomorrow\u2019s Schools has its critics and there are things we need to do for it\u2014but rather than chucking that out what is happening is an undermining through this really odd initiative that has failed elsewhere. At the very best, all the research can be called mixed in terms of its results. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ELet us a spade a spade in the title of the bill. I think it would be a refreshing change. I think that perhaps we should call the bill the \u201CThrow Away the Rule Book Bill\u201D, because the rule book around what works for an equitable, quality public education system is being undermined by this. What I would also like to call the bill is the \u201CPrivatisation (Trojan Horse) Education Amendment Bill\u201D, because it is actually a Trojan Horse for a fascinating speech that Heather Roy made some time ago, which I wrote a blog about called \u201CBad News from Bunnythorpe\u201D. She made it in Bunnythorpe, which is an interesting place to announce the end of quality public education, but it sums up the way of life in this country in some ways in that disastrous educational policy was whispered in an obscure small town called Bunnythorpe. I am sure it is a very good place, but did it need Heather Roy announcing that vouchers and privatisation were the solution to education? That was prior to the election, then we had the cup of tea, then we had the coalition agreement, and now we have disastrous legislation that will undermine something that is very, very important to people in this country, which is the concept of a local school being good enough for all children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI am not saying\u2014no one is\u2014that we cannot innovate and improve the quality of the public education system that we have; of course we can. I do not think anybody wants to deny that there are real issues from poverty, from disadvantage, and from the growing gap between the richest and the poorest families attending schools, and that there is the need for a much greater level of cultural responsiveness in the diversity of Aotearoa. That has always been needed. But we do have special character sections in our education legislation. We do have a whole range of mechanisms, such as kura kaupapa, that need resourcing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EIf we are going to talk about the title of the bill, we should really be honest and say that this bill is not about any of the stated goals that we hold dear around free primary and secondary education; it is about facilitating business. So the bill could perhaps be called the \u201CBusiness Facilitation in Education Bill\u201D. I have had a look at some of the international groups that have expressed an interest in setting up charters, and they are franchises. It is basically an opportunity for international educational franchises to take over. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EAnother opportunity is there for unqualified teachers. This is what we heard at the select committee and this is why the title is mild and misleading. What we heard was that if you have failed to keep your registration\u2014sorry, not you, Mr Chair\u2014if there has been a failure to keep your registration up to date or you have committed some kind of misdemeanour that the Teachers Council is concerned about, do not worry; that person will be able to go and teach in a charter school. We are going to have this bizarre scenario where half the teachers in a school\u2014or fewer, because there is no requirement for a particular number to be registered\u2014will be registered, and the others will not. We will not know why, the parents will not know why, and that is the Government\u2019s idea of accountability in education. That is the Government\u2019s idea of safety for our children. It is extremely odd and totally inconsistent that it is building this into the Education Amendment Bill as it is titled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI am very concerned about these titles. I think that, as well as reflecting that unregistered teachers are being allowed access through this bill, the title could also be the \u201CGood at Lecturing? You Can Easily Be a Teacher Bill\u201D, because what I heard at the select committee from some people\u2014not the submitters, but other members of the committee\u2014is that they did not understand the huge difference between lecturing in quantum physics at a university, and facilitating children\u2019s learning in a primary school. And so the idea from some people was that you could just hijack some lecturers from a university who have a degree, throw them into a charter school, and then everything will be fine. Of course, 6-year-olds will really enjoy being lectured, because lecturing is learning to some people\u2014just shows you what they do not know about learning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EThe most offensive thing about this Education Amendment Bill and its title is that it does not expose the fact that children\u2019s learning is not well served by privatisation and competition. I would much prefer that we call it just the \u201CCompetition Bill\u201D. The league table is the way to go. The sports team model for education, which says that we should all be in league tables and that we should all compete because people learn best by competing, is worse than a fallacy. It is incredibly destructive. There is plenty of evidence of that all over the world when you read into the evidence about the creation of these so-called free, so-called charter, so-called helpful for education schools. I am also very concerned about the idea that perhaps a person could finish their university degree in their subject, be considered an expert, and then be hijacked into a school where they had 6 weeks\u2019 training. Charter schools will be well positioned to take those people, but it will not work for kids. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ESo we have a bill that is called the Education Amendment Bill and is supposedly about free primary and secondary education, but it creates risk. It creates risk for parents trying to decide what will be sustainable, because if the schools fall over\u2014and they often do, in other parts of the world\u2014then your child has been mucked around. People are vulnerable about what is going to be best for their kids\u2019 education. They need to know. Christchurch yesterday is a case in point. There is huge vulnerability. There is not a need for lab rat experimentation. Therefore, the title of this bill really needs to change. It really needs to be\u2014I think my favourite is the Trojan Horse one, actually. I think the Trojan Horse one is my favourite because, yes, it is educational\u2014it sort of inspires history. We think about what happened in Troy when the wooden horse was rolled through and everybody was smiling, thinking the siege was over\u2014but the siege was not over. The siege was just beginning. That is what we see in the title of this bill: an innocuous title when the siege of Troy, after years of battle, has just begun. Out of the wooden horse will come the warriors of privatisation, who will break it open and create an amazingly well-resourced experiment, which no doubt the Government in its first few years will refuse to allow to fail, whatever the definition of success is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI certainly do not think that competition will work for these kids. The experience overseas in terms of this bill is that charter schools counsel out students who fail, because it is a contract, and if you fail to meet the contract, it is over\u2014it is over. That is what is so destructive from the students\u2019 point of view. I am sure the experiment will not fail in the first few years because it will be heavily resourced, but we could have done a whole lot better with that $19 million we wasted in the Budget on this. We could have done a whole lot better with our ethos around education. We could have stuck to the title of section 3 of the Education Act, \u201CRight to free primary and secondary education\u201D. We should add some words. If the Green Party was going to amend the Education Act, we would add words around creating a quality, local, culturally responsive, and equitable public system for the benefit of all students. We would not play games with the future of our children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u002238f1ef57da84466f9fef0d0459f45b70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238f1ef57da84466f9fef0d0459f45b70\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u002296b10de1e952451392798fba7e4682b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296b10de1e952451392798fba7e4682b5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I appreciate that this is my first call on this bill, the Education Amendment Bill, and, I hope, the first of many in this Committee stage. I have come to the Chamber because I am extremely concerned about the bill. I am extremely concerned. I once held the office of Minister of Health. I am trying to imagine a health parallel for this bill. Imagine public money going into a private hospital where, by special dispensation from an Act of Parliament, they had unqualified doctors, unqualified nurses, and medicines that did not have to go through Medsafe and that were never trialled. Just imagine putting your family into a hospital where you could not, by law, have access to your medical records. It sounds so preposterous that it is creating excitement\u2014even disorder\u2014around the Chamber. But that is exactly what this bill says about education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EFrom the people who brought you Novopay, the people who brought you the Christchurch schools debacle, the people who brought you the record number of unfunded contingencies in the education budget, and the people who brought you increases in funding for private schools while cutting money for public schools, they are bringing you the big granddaddy of them all, the innocuous-sounding Education Amendment Bill. This is the thin end of a very, very dangerous wedge. This is the idea that private, for-profit interests are going to be on the take for public money, with no scrutiny, no financial accountability, no curriculum, no qualifications required for teachers, and no qualifications required for principals. You have got to ask what an appropriate title is for this ridiculous piece of rubbish. The answer is: how about the \u201CEducation (You\u2019ve Got to be Joking) Amendment Bill\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThis is so ridiculous, it is like some neo-liberal Martian\u2014let us call him \u201CJohn Banks\u201D\u2014landed on planet Earth and thought that they were going to lay waste to public education because they just hate anything with the word \u201Cpublic\u201D in it. This is so ridiculous. Wake up, New Zealand. Your treasured education system is going to be ripped apart into a two-tier, for-profit, discriminating against minorities, discriminating against the poor, pile of rubbish\u2014pile of rubbish. If you do not like a two-tier health system, you are not going to like a two-tier education system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EOr perhaps we should call this the \u201CEducation (Death of the Kiwi Dream) Bill\u201D. The death of the Kiwi dream that the daughter of a doctor and the son of a driver could grow up and have equal access\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e78560472109423ea9079ea066b2b3de\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am struggling to see how this fits in with the title and commencement of the bill. Perhaps the member could be brought back to the actual clauses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1a41e2c338f43dbab1641bb54698407\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244e9710d26864673ab25f19ca8fcb788\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I do not really need any assistance on this. Relevance is a pertinent issue, particularly on clauses 1 to 3. I just remind the member to bring us into his realm of thinking pertinent to clauses 1 to 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac3deb54ef0b4e3b80376ef1ac38cba7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair. Of course, we are discussing the title of the bill, and that is an opportunity, as Standing Orders dictate and as you have previously reminded us, to draw together the general themes of what the bill is intending, and, of course, that is what we are trying to do by emphasising the craziness of disembowelling the concept of public education in this country. It is a very serious matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EAll hyperbole aside, all jokes and argy-bargy aside, this is a precious thing that we are handling here. This is the idea that Kiwi kids all should have a good start in life\u2014in fact, all deserve an equal start in life. We know that in our country we are already too far from that. We know, just from recent international surveys, that we are now one of the most unequal countries in the entire OECD\u2014the rich countries\u2019 club. And you know that Kiwi dream that we grew up with, the egalitarian idea that everybody could have a fair suck of the sav, that everybody deserved a fair chance in life? That is going so fast in this country, and it is going further under National Governments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe Labour and Green Opposition parties are incredibly concerned by this bill. We are worried that its genesis was out of a cup of tea, a shabby deal between National and its neo-liberal wet-dream ACT partner. We are worried about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb17d0c70f304cbe9126800fbe952d2d\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am sorry to labour the point, but I am still struggling to see the relevance in the member\u2019s comments in relation to the clauses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f2bb5096b8a455d86b7717756892043\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266c81021a5404bef8ca4c1de6367e8c4\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear from the Hon Trevor Mallard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e189ca004f34ca6892f804ff9fec8e3\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I know that the member is a relatively new member, but I think relevance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a4daf32ddde4a63aab3ada6f9c08d5b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f93cddd096794598929666887568647d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Well\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f0801fc4463419b81574b39ef33f478\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: No, please sit down. When the member gets up to give a contribution to help the Chair decide, attacking a member on his length of experience is completely outside, because then I think the member is standing up to attack the member, and that is not appropriate. If the member wants to make a contribution, I will hear it, but he must desist from making comment on other members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b36c18780ac46dcbf5f699c0b6d9c45\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: And I apologise, Mr Chair. I was being generous, rather than attacking him\u2014I think he would know if I was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224993f6a1a1df475d89ebad7961afc32c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: You must not speak on my ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f289b28d900434bb63449f191ba6e15\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: The point that I am trying to make is that the question of relevance is one for the Chair to determine, and not one for which points of order are meant to be taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022add03f51e251420e871a5e9c12ef7195\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is correct on that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223cd2c8352534d03840b96186f755364\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Let us take this down to the level of evidence. We have heard from Government members that it does not matter if charter schools have unqualified teachers, it does not matter if the Official Information Act and other forms of accountability to the public for public money do not apply, and it does not matter if principals do not need teaching qualifications. None of that matters. Well, I think we should look at the evidence. Here is a very interesting study from none other than Stanford University. As it happens, it is a private university\u2014[Bell rung]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00227bd7c7cdf3db417a9feb488c7dd84edf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bd7c7cdf3db417a9feb488c7dd84edf\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Simon O\u2019Connor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u00223ff259c03d7f4e569e2f01e459181f63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ff259c03d7f4e569e2f01e459181f63\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Without wishing to create any sense of obligation on your good self, you will have noted that this was my first call on this bill, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8db33e0f3144afea38c5834dd7dfb16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8db33e0f3144afea38c5834dd7dfb16\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me, please. I am going to hear the call of Simon O\u2019Connor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u00228a1a7be88c194b68b26252fb8f67e588\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a1a7be88c194b68b26252fb8f67e588\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b79c68d0307c43cf8d4cbd3a667fd4e4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 33; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002272dd9388a78e4e5192008bd52d3adeb0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 62\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 33; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; Mana 1; United Future 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229350b8f0ce724c8182acf8da3d1a9f81\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 62\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 33; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; Mana 1; United Future 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227f15c5351148462387b056145ae629ab\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 62\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 33; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; Mana 1; United Future 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000476\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment presently.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002234db5440bd9e43b98be30ac21ce90c37\u0022\u003EImmigration Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022613f82df41514a1aa044e08ae7bccbdf\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b98b08ff77fb44b89dabdb00c0f9adb4\u0022\u003EPart 1  Substantive amendments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022848ab26019ce4682ba03f9c65e7e2212\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022848ab26019ce4682ba03f9c65e7e2212\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much for the chance to speak on the Committee stage of the Immigration Amendment Bill. I think that in speaking to Part 1 it is worth reminding ourselves, because it has been a little while since the second reading, what this bill is about\u2014well, what gave rise to it\u2014and why we have this bill in the Committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022902bb6b665fd44d5b6b4926f8b64a10f\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Was there anything?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dbd8db82bc24a36bc71c45b35b4dbf3\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: What was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ceb3cfda7364333b30976c3ed40a425\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Was there anything that gave rise to it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022256f827c490449388e5792c09cb7594b\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, there was. There was something that gave rise to it, actually. If we go back to around about a year ago when this bill was first introduced, there were a couple of things that gave rise to this. The National Party was having a little bit of trouble. There was a little bit of trouble going on, a little bit of controversy around Skycity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022728812460bd04a088acb5e6dff0e4bcb\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022608a35dcf8444b7b99e956a15aa0aeb2\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, so what happened was that this bill suddenly appeared from nowhere, out of the blue, a year after the Prime Minister had said that New Zealand is in a very, very good situation in terms of the potential for a mass arrival of asylum seekers. He said that New Zealand is in a very good situation and we could cope quite adequately with that, there was nothing to worry about, nothing to see, nothing to fear\u2014and here we go, this bill arrived. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIf you go back to the reason behind this bill\u2014in fact, to the purpose of the bill\u2014it was premised on the fact that we could at some stage in New Zealand expect to see a mass arrival of 500 people on a boat. That is one of the justifications for this bill that was put forward as the original reason why we needed to have this bill. Five hundred people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a68ac32a69ac4b8cb1645bdccc64fe5d\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: Are you saying that\u2019s impossible?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5745f75339f4d2d8b5318b8ff1659ec\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am saying that that was the original reason, but that has changed now, because, actually, it is now 30 people, Cam Calder, so it has changed. It has changed during the year that we have actually been looking at it. Well, actually, a mass arrival originally under this bill was 10 people\u201410 people turning up on a rusty old boat on our shores was a mass arrival that New Zealand could not cope with. That is what this bill has come down to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb1df4cbc5c2456dbe02e929a07944f2\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: And are you saying that\u2019s impossible?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c84512cec134b8c81c5a8ddc0de4f79\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: I am saying that it is just about impossible. Yes, I am saying that. It is just about impossible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI am also saying that this bill is premised on a completely false assumption. It was based on a Canadian ship that came from Sri Lanka. It arrived on Canadian shores, chartered by Tamils, who are a big population in Canada. It was a steel-hulled ship that for some reason sent our Government into a panic, believing that a similar ship could arrive in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThere are two things about that. First of all, a steel-hulled ship carrying 500 people could never be funded by any population in New Zealand. We do not have a sizable Tamil population or any other in New Zealand. Second of all, there has never been an instance of any ship arriving in this way since we have had the issue of refugees, going right back to the 1970s, in fact, when there was all this scare around boat people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ESo that was the first premise of the bill. It was premised on the fact that there would be 500 people involved in a mass arrival. This is in the regulatory impact statement. They would all be from the same country, they would all claim asylum, and 62 percent of these claims would be declined following assessments. So there was a big scare around 500 people. As we got further into this bill, of course, we found out that actually what the Government was talking about was 10 people. Ten people turning up on a boat was a mass arrival, which our country could not cope with. Honestly, that is so, so pathetic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe second thing that this bill was premised on was that it was supposed to deter people-smugglers. I find this very interesting, because of course none of us support people-smugglers. We all know that that is something at the heart of some of the problems we are seeing in Australia, which have given rise to the appalling detention centres that they have. In fact, that is the system that we are trying to copy with this bill. People-smugglers are crooks. They are the people who prey on vulnerable people who are looking for a better life, who are struggling, and who have families and children whom they are trying to get out of camps and so on. People-smugglers are evil so we support stopping people-smugglers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EBut what did we find in the last couple of weeks? We have actually let a people-smuggler into New Zealand. We have granted that person refugee status.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223557b61c5c0548fd9960c25481bcee0b\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: John Key?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1b12289ff0c4c2fa0a637175cd4601b\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there is that one, but there is another one. We have granted refugee status to someone who was responsible for being involved in people-smuggling, whom the Australians are seeking\u2014they want him extradited. He was responsible for being involved in people-smuggling where hundreds of family members\u2014parents and children\u2014were drowned when the boat sunk. That person is living in New Zealand as a refugee. He was granted refugee status. If we are so worried about people-smuggling, surely the first thing we should be concentrating on, rather than this rubbishy bill, is making sure we protect our own refugee system from people like that who are involved in people-smuggling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWe all know that this bill is punishing the victims of people-smugglers, and they are the people who arrive in a rusty boat, who are often in awful situations, and they often end up drowning or end up in horrible camps somewhere. We all know that they are the victims of people-smugglers. What this bill does is it punishes the victims of people-smugglers. It does nothing\u2014nothing\u2014to deter people-smugglers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe Transport and Industrial Relations Committee heard the evidence and advice from, I think, 33 submitters\u2014only one of whom actually supported this bill\u2014who are very, very involved in this issue, like the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and refugee organisations that have got years of experience. All of their advice was that research shows that this kind of legislation, locking up the victims for up to 6 months or more in mandatory detention without the rights of ordinary people, without the rights of asylum seekers who come by plane, does not deter people-smugglers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E So the premise that this would be 500 people on a boat and the premise that this would deter people-smugglers are false\u2014they are false. The underlying question that I have, then, for the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Internal Affairs, about Part 1 is this: what is really behind this bill? What is really behind this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec52b952336f475fa4b0a6de716cd2a4\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister told us the answer to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228389f761f22d4bb0b828998705dcdd76\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think we know\u2014I think we know. I think that the Minister of Immigration and John Key have got themselves in the big boys\u2019 club along with Canada, the UK, Australia, and so on, they have gone off to the five-country conferences, and they have been persuaded that we should join with them in their immigration policies, which are wrong\u2014which are wrong. They have been persuaded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIn fact, we know that John Key was persuaded by Julia Gillard from Australia that we should take 150 of Australia\u2019s refugees. Julia Gillard is a smart woman. She got a great deal. She got a great deal out of that. [Interruption] Yes, she is a very smart woman; that is why she is the Prime Minister of Australia. She got a great deal out of that. What did we get? We got nothing. John Key got done, and John Key has not been able to justify that deal. He has not been able to justify that deal in any way, shape, or form. He is hiding behind national security. Nobody knew anything about the deal. It popped up, and he got done by Julia Gillard down in Queenstown. She got a great deal; we got a terrible deal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAnd here we are now with a stupid bill, a bill that does nothing except actually damage our international reputation, which I treasure, which we treasure as a country that has got a great human rights record when it comes to refugees and accepting refugees. This bill does damage. It is not necessary. The purpose of this bill is stupid. The purpose has been shown to be completely based on a false premise. We are debating the bill, and I do not even know why we are wasting the Committee\u2019s time on something like this where 10 people could be locked up for 6 months. It is supposed to be such a critical issue for New Zealand, that 10 people might arrive on a boat one day. It possibly, maybe, could perhaps happen, and we want to lock them up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002294bb4431034c402197949a8a35c96184\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294bb4431034c402197949a8a35c96184\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I would just like to acknowledge the members of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee who are here today, and our officials, who did a sterling job on the Immigration Amendment Bill and did a very good job in presenting this. I decided to take this call because I was disgusted by that last speech. Darien Fenton is a member of the committee whom I have a lot of respect for. She is a very nice lady, she is very active on the committee, and she has been a great member of that committee for many years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e1a3fa669fe4e71b28d00d799055029\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. You pulled me up for being patronising earlier. I think this member should stop it and get back to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022933e49fbb2404835979b501843aa345b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there is a pertinent difference between a member using a point of order to make a comment and a member in debate. Actually, I could not see any offence in the way in which the member was speaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de034b7ce9564d9fbdd31ac2f4f36bef\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: And I genuinely mean it\u2014Darien is a really nice lady.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224066b311e83746e183c3c091544f0374\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CDar-rien\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f46db4a761274a4f815263659b773c3e\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Darien is a really nice lady, but for her to say in this debate that Australia got a great deal, to talk about how letting people go is a great deal, and to say it is a bad deal for New Zealand to have another 125 citizens of New Zealand coming our way is an absolute disgrace to the Labour Party. That is what it really thinks of people who are refugees\u2014they are a bad deal. People are a bad deal under the Labour Party. The Australian Labor Party got a great deal because it gave away refugees\u2014that is what the Labour Party has said in this Chamber tonight. That is disgraceful. It is absolutely disgraceful. That is not the kind of person that Darien is. That is not the kind of way that she should be approaching this bill. That approach has got no regard for the people, their sacrifices, and the pain that they go through to get to New Zealand and to other countries. That is a disgrace, I think, for the Labour Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis bill is about sending a signal. It is sending the signal that we will enshrine our immigration rules and we will work towards getting the best solutions. The Opposition talks a lot of fear, loathing, and hatred, and a lot of things that are just not true. It creates a lot of fear in our migrants, it is creating a lot of fear in people who are looking at New Zealand as a home, and it is saying that the Government will act in a way that the Government will not. The Government has not acted in that way and does not intend to act in that way, but we need to give ourselves the ability to deal with these situations should they arise. These are people. They are not a bad deal. These are real human beings whom we are talking about here. How dare the Labour Party call them a bad deal and things like that in this Chamber. That is a shocking stance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe reason why Labour Party members are saying this is that they have bought into the rhetoric around this bill. They are saying how bad it is when they do not actually believe that. They know it is not like that. They know that a reasonable Government needs to work to have these kinds of initiatives in place. They are taking this measure out of context and looking at it in a way that is not real. I do not think that Darien actually meant those comments that these people are a bad deal. I think that she did not actually mean that. Opposition members are doing this because they have been told to argue in this way in this Chamber today on this bill, and they think that that is the way that they should present themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe Greens will come along next doing exactly the same thing\u2014building a lot of fear and preying on those people who are vulnerable. That is what the left does: it preys on the vulnerable and it takes advantage of people in their time of need. That is not what Governments do. That is not what this Parliament should stand for. Everybody is a good person and not a bad deal. You cannot say in this Chamber that the Australian Labor Party got a great deal by giving 125 people away and that we got a bad deal in taking 125 people. That is disgusting, and I hope that Darien takes another call to make amends for that comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdcec0a96a01470499265ca872d3841e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdcec0a96a01470499265ca872d3841e\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it is not a pleasure to take a call on the Immigration Amendment Bill. The member David Bennett, who has just resumed his seat, said one thing that I do agree with\u2014that none of us will disagree with\u2014and that is that he admitted the true fa\u00E7ade nature of this bill when he said that the Government has no intention of acting in this way. It raises the obvious question: why are we considering this bill? It is a nasty, insidious, and vicious piece of legislation that will do nothing for our international reputation. It will continue the decline and degradation of our reputation under this Government. Every time we come into this House\u2014just about every session we have had this year\u2014there has been a piece of legislation that has been about an abuse of due process and an abuse of civilians\u2019 rights, and here is another piece of legislation doing exactly the same thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis was a trumped-up bill, connived and contrived to appeal to a very small number of the National Government\u2019s donor base, to sort of press a button to say that we are tough and we are strong and we can beat up on those people whose situation is so desperate that they flee their country of origin and undertake any means possible\u2014go across dangerous waters\u2014to try to wash up somewhere that will have them. That simply will not happen in New Zealand. There has never been a vessel of the type that has washed up on shores in Australia that has turned up here. They would not. The only vessel that has entered New Zealand waters unlawfully and thrown up its unwelcome passengers was the yacht Ouvea, carrying the French spies who then sunk the Rainbow Warrior. That is about the only case. That is the only case we know of\u2014that is the only case we know of. When you think about the treacherous waters of the Tasman, there are naval boats that have not been able to make it across the Tasman. They washed up on that little island just to the east of Australia. A naval boat washed up on that island and holed itself. That was an Australian naval boat. So how is it that those other boats are going to wash up here? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe clauses that I am most concerned about, and that Simon Bridges ought to be deeply ashamed about\u2014and, yes, he is cheering them on in this Committee\u2014are clauses 9 and 10, which are about this Government yet again withholding basic civil and political rights that people in this country ordinarily expect. So just as the New Zealand Public Health and Disability Amendment Act (No 2) included the ousting of the courts\u2019 jurisdiction to hear legitimate legal claims, now we have it again\u2014now we have it again\u2014in clause 10. The right that any other refugee would otherwise have to take a claim and to have it heard by the Immigration and Protection Tribunal is to be removed under this legislation, in this mad, desperate rush to look tough and strong against people who are the vulnerable, the dispossessed, and the unfortunate. That is what the Government wants to do. That is what this bill will do. That is what this Government will do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe reputation that this Government is establishing as being in total contempt and disrespect of basic civil and political rights is continuing under this bill. It has done it before and it is doing it again in this bill. That is the tragedy. That is how unfortunate it is. It is not good for this House or for this country. This House is a House of Representatives\u2014representing all of the people of New Zealand, including those who come here in unfortunate circumstances, those who are refugees, and those who are asylum seekers. As a civilised nation, and as part of the comity of all nations around the world, we extend to all those who are here\u2014whether they are citizens born here, whether they are residents, whether they come here without any nation status at all\u2014basic civil and political rights. That is what we do as a civilised nation. Clauses 9 and 10 will eliminate those rights for those who come here, whether as part of a mass arrival, as this bill describes it, or whatever it is. We should not be putting ourselves in that situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis House should not be legislating in a way that removes and undermines well-established, internationally recognised civil and political rights for those who are refugees, in whatever form they arrive here\u2014whether they come in ones or twos, whether they come in groups of 10 or more\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u002240e3ccc790d44e2bb5ebeb76be7f96a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240e3ccc790d44e2bb5ebeb76be7f96a8\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E There are several points that I would like to make in speaking in the Committee stage of the Immigration Amendment Bill, but I will start with some of the overarching points that are held within Part 1 of this bill. I guess the first one is about this being a deterrent to asylum seekers. I want to address that general point of the purpose of this bill and to remind this Committee, as I did in my first reading speech, that in the initial edition of this bill that we were presented with there was nothing in the content of the bill that actually referred to people-smugglers, apart from the declaration that that was the purpose of the bill. Within the content of it, there was nothing referencing people-smugglers. Within New Zealand law we have legislation that specifically relates to people-smuggling, so you would think that, actually, if we were wanting to deter people-smugglers, our laws would be the place to start looking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI would like to bring to the attention of this Committee how we have been using that law up to this point. From 2004 to 2010, 15 people were convicted of people-smuggling within New Zealand, and none of these cases, to my knowledge, involved mass arrivals. That is a key point. The people who were convicted of people-smuggling under section 98 of the Crimes Act have actually been treated pretty leniently in our courts. In fact, the harshest penalty in recent years has been 8 months\u2019 home detention. Eight months\u2019 home detention is the harshest penalty for people-smuggling, and we have been told in this House that people-smuggling is a heinous crime and that we need to break the consensus in this House on our commitment to the refugee convention because we need to deter these people. And yet that has been the response in our courts to people-smuggling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIt really does beg the question whether this piece of legislation actually has anything to do with that point. I would echo the call for the Minister of Immigration to point out, in terms of this legislation, what evidence he has that this piece of legislation will do anything to address people-smuggling. I note that the more recent Supplementary Order Paper 232, which has come through from the Minister, does actually have some relationship with people-smuggling\u2014potentially\u2014around the provision of documents; it refers to those who are seen as aiding and abetting people\u2019s entry into the country and providing false documents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to this point in reading this, I think it also brings us back to some of the complexity around asylum seeking. My strongest association with this takes me back to my childhood, when I was immersed in stories of the Second World War. A huge number of those stories would be around the French Resistance and the provision of documents to Jewish people or to soldiers who had landed in places and needed a safe passageway to get out and to get to safety. I was there as a child, hearing those stories, just egging on the Resistance to provide that, to get that false document for that person to get to safety. In some ways that is what we are talking about here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThis is about people whose very lives are at risk in completely war-torn countries in crisis. We are supposedly on the international stage intervening and standing up for these people, and yet we are introducing legislation into this House that potentially limits their ability to get to safety. I do not understand it. I do not believe that is the New Zealand spirit. When David Bennett, the chair of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, stood up and said that we on this side of the Chamber are scaremongering around this bill and creating fear in migrant communities\u2014because they are never going to use this bill\u2014then I have to remind him of the cause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u0022892bf009da03437ca56da0f3cf3eeb95\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022892bf009da03437ca56da0f3cf3eeb95\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First takes people-smuggling and border control very seriously. New Zealand cannot afford to be seen as a soft touch by would-be people-smugglers or illegal immigrants. We accept that there is, in fact, a risk that mass arrivals are possible here, as they have been in Australia. We agree also that the risk is small, for now, but what about next year, or what about next month, for that matter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EDeterrence is an important element to discourage mass arrivals by boats, and vessels with the capability to reach New Zealand must be considered a real possibility. Deterrence is a basic consideration for all criminal activity, so we cannot accept the argument that deterrence is not relevant for these matters. Therefore, the amendments proposed by this Immigration Amendment Bill will at this stage be supported by New Zealand First, but subject to the condition that Supplementary Order Paper 219 in the name of the Rt Hon Winston Peters is agreed to\u2014and I will come to that in a moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First has the most consistent stance on border control of all political parties. We have what I would call a strict regime approach to the whole issue of immigration, which we think is currently far too lax in far too many ways, and that is where we would part company with the Labour Party, which, I think, would be even worse. We are especially concerned in respect of all cases of illegal entry, and more especially again if New Zealand is faced with illegal mass arrivals. We have a hard-line approach, because we put New Zealand first, and the Labour Party obviously does not. If that means perceived\u2014and I stress the word \u201Cperceived\u201D\u2014non-compliance with international conventions, then so be it. We see New Zealand interests first in priority, rather than the soft approach, which other parties would foist upon us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EIn this day and age this matter is at the forefront of the protection of New Zealand and the integrity of our borders. New Zealand First will never tolerate illegal entry to this country, and we will not accept the many and various excuses people involved give for their illegal activities. We also know that if we adopt a soft approach we will not be doing enough to protect the lives of people who are the customers of the people-traffickers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ENotwithstanding New Zealand First\u2019s hard-line approach, New Zealand First is committed to meeting New Zealand\u2019s international obligations under the United Nations quota programme for 750 people each year. Illegal immigration puts strain on our ability to meet those obligations. Illegal arrivals are actually nothing more than queue-jumpers, who must not be rewarded at the expense of those who follow correct process. This will happen if mass arrivals get out of control. Although that is unlikely, we must still be prepared for it, not only so that we can handle it if it occurs but, as I said before, to deter people-traffickers and their customers from trying it on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe bill assumes that the New Zealand authorities actually have the capacity required to deal with mass arrival, defined as over 10 people together. This means the relevant Government departments and agencies must have the capacity to set up one or more detention centres for illegal refugees within 24 hours of their arrival. We see no guarantee that such systems or plans are in place, and the bill in its present form places no expectations on the authorities to adequately deliver those facilities. New Zealand First, therefore, strongly urges the Government to support Winston Peters\u2019 Supplementary Order Paper, which would ensure that proper systems are in place to deal with mass arrivals as they happen, if or when they happen, and which specifically requires the chief executive officer of the Department of Corrections, with the authority of the Prime Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022161ee9ea798b4d2f9dce4c3d53095bea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022161ee9ea798b4d2f9dce4c3d53095bea\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I cannot tell you how much of a relief it is, Mr Chairman, to get the call, after you had been tantalising the Labour Opposition by darting your eyes around the Chamber. Can I just say to the previous speaker, Denis O\u2019Rourke, that I have news for him\u2014I have news for him. \u201CWogistan\u201D is a landlocked country. There will be no boat people from \u201CWogistan\u201D, because they have no ocean\u2014they have no ocean. The chances of \u201CWogistanis\u201D invading New Zealand by boat are exactly the same as Martians invading New Zealand by spacecraft. In fact, why has the National Government not got an anti-Martian clause in this tawdry bill, the Immigration Amendment Bill? There is no protection from alien landings, and there is exactly the same probability of an alien invasion from Mars as there is of boat people from Indonesia or \u201CWogistan\u201D\u2014exactly the same probability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIn all seriousness, I would like to recall a tale of two leaders. It was my privilege to be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022780bbae51f7149af82fa08cb9e00d5da\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t worry about it. Nobody wants to hear it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df5de4f3c0b84f85acd4a58a537e3aa5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairman. It is not often that I take a point of order seeking the ability to give my remarks in regard to a member sitting on the same side of the Chamber, and I am sure that he will do us the courtesy, now that the initial humorous introductory period of the remarks are over, to engage in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af5e862d6a6f4aa8a456dbdbeded1920\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me, I am the Chair. The member should be addressing me, not the member who has just resumed his seat. He is falling\u2014no, no, stay seated, please. He is falling into the same sort of habit as using points of order for other points of view. Can I just say this: although I accept that the Chamber was too rowdy, when the member began he did say some rather insightful things that may have generated the response, and he has to take some\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd4cdca6710b47c1935b4f1209951f43\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairman. I just want to check\u2014I think you meant \u201Cinciting\u201D, not \u201Cinsightful\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022879836d4598b4cc8abbae4a1f3eb1c31\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, right. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b0c7053f6bd447694b8b5848a543bc2\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairman. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268a00569198c4a348c549d0f2ad515c4\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I have dealt with those points of order, but Denis O\u2019Rourke has a point of order. Look, it is time we moved on. I hope this is not trivial.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223404de661edd42578429f09becd5fa56\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: I just wanted to respond\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022678da5259cf54a3fa70f52862b88e5b7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: No, you cannot respond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c9bb63aef1a4a2887c010999f858c99\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chairman, I take your guidance and that of my very learned colleague Mr Mallard that I need to move from \u201Cincite-ful\u201D with a \u201Cc\u201D to \u201Cinsightful\u201D with an \u201Cs\u201D, and I shall try to do that. [Interruption] That has confused the Minister opposite; he has no idea what I am talking about\u2014no idea. But never mind\u2014back to my tale of two leaders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIt was my privilege to be present at a public meeting in my electorate with the Rt Hon Helen Clark when her phone rang and she was advised about the Tampa\u2014the Tampa. [Interruption] Does the \u201Cmember for dairy conversions\u201D remember the Tampa? That situation was true test of leadership, where New Zealand said: \u201CHere is a desperate situation where human beings are at mortal peril. We will take 150 of those boat people.\u201D It was recently a privilege to know that they have had a celebration for those Tampa refugees, and that so many of them have gone on to tertiary education and to very gainful employment. They have become really, really valuable members of our society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EAt roughly the same time, John Howard played the boat people card in his last and \u201Cit has to be successful\u201D re-election campaign, where he used footage gained by the Australian Defence Force and intelligence services to scaremonger about the yellow peril crossing the straits into Australia. It seemed that he was submerging the dangers to human life to the need for crass partisan politics and playing if not the race card, then the invasion card to frighten his people into conservative voting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EI have to say that it is straight out of the Crosby/Textor playbook. If you cannot convince people about your economic policies, if you want them to ignore the true effect of your social policies, you will need an external enemy, and if there is not a real one out there, create one and say: \u201CI know, we are going to create the bogey of thousands of Asian boat people!\u201D. Why is Melissa Lee supporting this anti-Asian legislation? Why is she doing that? Why is Kanwaljit Bakshi supporting this anti-Asian legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022544b18a301bf48218de20f9554e1baf7\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. That kind of comment is very, very offensive. I take offence at that, because it is not Asian people who are, in fact, the boat people who actually turn up on New Zealand\u2019s shores, and his comment about \u201Cyellow peril\u201D was very offensive. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221ea39da3620449bac4696bb039c7be2\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I actually do think that comment had a bit of innuendo, and I ask the member to withdraw it. [Interruption] No, just withdraw it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fe081beac754bb8bae318d002847815\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. That is a matter of debate. It is a matter of debate and not of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208c36792e6864df6a6eaf3d23c08ff4a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Some aspersions were cast that could be offensive, and I have just ruled that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d0b70274c6b4fe4b5a5059940b588e2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223eeebcdac5b545d3ba16368fb8c1c413\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, I just want the member to withdraw, and then we will continue. Just withdraw the comment\u2014that is all that is required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229adfd26cd58411cb2eb448a784bd6d3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I certainly withdraw any\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea5839a2cc2547b88bd6ff2041ec34c4\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022208f7ae2e5eb47f4ac3c89e990858747\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014inference that the comment may have been in any way calling the member\u2019s intentions into doubt. But the point, which is actually beyond debate, is that the nearest land mass to Australasia is Asia, and it is from the countries of Asia that Mr Howard and Mr Key have painted the threat as emerging. That is actually incontrovertible. So if this Committee, or anybody listening, has a problem with the use of the word \u201CAsia\u201D in that context, there is one person to be blamed and it is John \u201CSlippery\u201D Key\u2014John \u201CSlippery\u201D Key. And I withdraw that comment because, of course, it is outside the Standing Orders, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b531cd1340ce47599c625358f40b1d97\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I understand that the Standing Orders require that you use the correct name for members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225599605cd21f4be59472f89fdaf2e200\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. All members are honourable members. The member will have to withdraw that comment, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb4e24dc9c0148db859090374677f6bb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I will not only withdraw but apologise for that one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad084b128c7f45fc8a4c6085588cfc07\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Now let us proceed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a9b1dc12759441f9bb1c33104f420e3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: A tale of two leaders: on the one hand we have a leader who put humanity above politics and took a political risk to save the lives of 150 young Afghans, who have gone on to be very upstanding citizens of New Zealand; on the other hand we have Mr Key and Mr Howard, right-wing politicians who are willing to sacrifice goodness and decency for populist, right-wing political ends. If New Zealanders cannot see what is going on with this shoddy, awful, Draconian, right-wing, anti-liberty piece of legislation, then they need to wake up. And it is not just this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e07b53eecfc24079a9309dfbfa8e7031\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e07b53eecfc24079a9309dfbfa8e7031\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u00224b0a5de82ee94ed98731b8c93c6769dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b0a5de82ee94ed98731b8c93c6769dd\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b45a012f1a040658ea504839b32b9ac\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: No way! Hey, there\u2019s people in the audience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de5cbdc9e2b6426c9418863eb55efe45\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: I know that\u2014well, there goes David Bennett again, after the Chair has actually called me to speak, telling me not to speak, as he did in question time the other day. It is about time that that member got dealt with by the officials within this complex\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb434575e97e449a87c2c31e432d91f0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220d1b8fdc35a457bb95cf398d4237f49\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. For the record, Ms Moroney, I never\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f083ae89b4cf495d82924562878ab8b0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. [Interruption] Order! [Interruption] Order! I am on my feet. The member cannot use a point of order to direct comments directly at a member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201b84ee036424fd8ad107f6934750977\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: In addressing Part 1 of this bill, the Immigration Amendment Bill, I am trying to internalise a complicated situation. That is all I can say about this, because this Part 1 is all about John Key\u2019s ghost ships. You know, Mr Key, we cannot legislate for your ghost ships. We cannot legislate for your ghost ships, and we should not be legislating for John Key\u2019s ghost ships, because that is where it all comes from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003ELast Christmas, 500 of these people, apparently\u2014so Simon Bridges told us\u2014were on their way to New Zealand in a boat. They never arrived. Of course they never arrived\u2014they were never on their way here. But Simon Bridges, whose credibility must already be in complete tatters\u2014what is it that he has got against boats? Not only did he create that ghost ship but also he is stopping people from getting out on boats and going and protesting about oil exploration. What is it that he has got against boats? In both instances he has misled the New Zealand public, and in both instances he has been shutting down human rights\u2014shutting down human rights in both of those instances. But in Part 1 we find out that it is actually not 500 people arriving on our shores that the Government is worried about, at all. In the definition of who is going to be affected by this bill, in Part 1, the meaning of a \u201Cmass arrival group\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002218b70014877d470e9a49413179c5983c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218b70014877d470e9a49413179c5983c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member. The time has come for me to report progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported presently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported the Education Amendment Bill without amendment, and progress on the Immigration Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2d16d381e5e4c039d4df1674c30133e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2d16d381e5e4c039d4df1674c30133e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ef6641a81f3b44ab89415933419ff390\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 70\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 33; Green Party 14; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000574\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.57 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201305308bfdfa0b1a1d4020b2aab141747bc249000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"