"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c22d74f5def44ed8a175cb6cfccdbfa0\u0022\u003EThursday, 11 July 2013\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a0a8ee7755441118dedfe12c7d47683\u0022\u003EThursday, 11 July 2013\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225ee22218a5c44cad9c2f1afb2c5dd1a9\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f375c699542e461fa528911f0bb00763\u0022\u003EBangladesh\u2014Delegation, Parliament\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00226e766138c6b841fba99921242f40e5f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e766138c6b841fba99921242f40e5f0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have much pleasure in informing the House that a parliamentary delegation from the National Parliament of Bangladesh, led by the Hon Muhammad Abdul Latif Biswas, Minister of Fisheries and Livestock, is present in the gallery. I am sure that members would wish that the delegation be welcomed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c77565722e79419795fd63013e813051\u0022\u003EPrivilege\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e20bb153fbf8415fa0977215876e700f\u0022\u003EReferral to Privileges Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226d0a0543efe542d7a50ea3d977f5d214\u0022\u003EQuestion of Privilege Regarding Use of Intrusive Powers Within the Parliamentary Precinct\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00229882c8c339ed4811b6a916fbee4e2f79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229882c8c339ed4811b6a916fbee4e2f79\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a letter from Dr Russel Norman raising as a matter of privilege statements made by the Rt Hon John Key, Prime Minister, in the House in reply to supplementary questions to question No. 4 on 2 July 2013, concerning the release of information from parliamentary information and security systems. Standing Order 400 requires an allegation of contempt to be formulated as precisely as possible so as to give the member or person against whom it is made full opportunity to respond. An allegation of contempt against the Rt Hon John Key in regard to the statements made is not clearly made out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EHowever, the member\u2019s letter raises serious issues. The exercise of intrusive powers against members threatens members\u2019 freedom to carry out their functions as elected representatives and the House\u2019s power to control its own proceedings and precincts without outside interference. The release of information from parliamentary information and security systems relating to the movements of journalists within the parliamentary precincts has also been questioned. Although the media do not necessarily participate directly in parliamentary proceedings, they are critical to informing the public about what Parliament is doing and public confidence in Parliament. Actions that may put at risk journalists\u2019 ability to report freely are a significant concern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe parliamentary precincts are also a workplace for both parliamentary employees and the employees of Government departments. Access to parliamentary information and security systems data of any sort must, therefore, also have regard to the respective rights of employers and employees and the role of the Speaker as a responsible Minister, and the Prime Minister and his Ministers. I believe some sort of common understanding is required to ensure on the one hand that the functioning of the House and the discharge of members\u2019 duties is not obstructed or impeded, but on the other that the maintenance of law and order and the ability to investigate and prosecute offences committed within the parliamentary precincts is preserved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe concerns raised are ones that should be looked at by the Privileges Committee. It is the body the House has established to investigate such matters. It has the power to hear evidence and formulate recommendations for the House that will provide guidance for the future. Consequently, I have determined that a general question of privilege does arise. The question therefore stands referred to the Privileges Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0b4a3e674ca421fb08baff49345e11e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0b4a3e674ca421fb08baff49345e11e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would like to ask whether, when you made that decision, you looked over all of the previous occasions when information of this type has been demanded by parliamentarians and that information has been made available, and whether or not you have regard to that precedent and that you find that something was wrong with that behaviour in the past, or are we entering new grounds now that we did not consider to be relevant back then? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EMy information is that in 2008 the Privileges Committee demanded the telephone records of a member of Parliament and a Minister, who voluntarily and willingly gave them up because he believed, amongst other things, that they would prove him to be right. That is of the same information that you now find to be a matter of privilege. So why would that be a matter of privilege now, when it was not deemed back then to be of any moment when such a demand was made by a member of Parliament across party lines\u2014or one party\u2019s set of lines, for a start\u2014and went as far as a Minister\u2019s telephone records? Can you tell me what is new now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec768567c83649bd92316cd4b80a22f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec768567c83649bd92316cd4b80a22f5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I can inform the member that I have not looked back as far as the incident the member is referring to. I have based the judgment on information made available over recent months, and, in particular, with reference to a letter from Dr Russel Norman. I believe there is an issue here whereby there needs to be an absolute understanding by us as members of Parliament of what information may or may not legitimately be released in the event of an investigation into a security breach. We need an understanding of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI am certainly concerned about the release of information regarding a journalist\u2019s access to and from the parliamentary precincts and, again, in my opinion there needs to be some clear guidance for members of the press gallery who work around this place as to what is being determined. The appropriate body for that is the Privileges Committee, which is already working on a protocol with regard to issues such as the actions of the Commissioner of Police and the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service with regard to their operations or potential operations within this building.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002285d66fea10b34cfaa8c3862b3f957b20\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228cad0df13ba74286ad83e7744c73e061\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00224ec0c21ed6e544a98fae045846244525\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ec0c21ed6e544a98fae045846244525\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week the House is in a 2-week adjournment. When the House resumes on Tuesday, 30 July the Government will look to make progress on the Appropriation (2013/14) Estimates Bill and the Resource Management Reform Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002221b6fd6a79304849a6edd9a8c451719a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221b6fd6a79304849a6edd9a8c451719a\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Can I ask the Deputy Leader of the House whether the report in Trans-Tasman today that we are going to enter into urgency this afternoon is accurate, or whether in fact they have subcontracted their fact-checking to Duncan Garner?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00221b4c4a8755f542ac949092bd02825e7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b4c4a8755f542ac949092bd02825e7d\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I understand that what is in Trans-Tasman is to do with the discussions at the Business Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f2f5a1818e084d1e9f08a8f46e4469f3\u0022\u003ERegister of Pecuniary Interests of Judges Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022da7520f8feea45f1b573337ab7db39f6\u0022\u003EInstruction to Justice and Electoral Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7afead019c041aa82b30f69c9c88a97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7afead019c041aa82b30f69c9c88a97\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E With the agreement of the member in charge and the select committee, I seek leave for the date by which the Justice and Electoral Committee must report the Register of Pecuniary Interests of Judges Bill to be extended to 25 February 2014.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00229c54be6fe78d462a8ba51145de9c71ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c54be6fe78d462a8ba51145de9c71ce\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002244dfe402f64a4420be4b89e1c42ef456\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002245519a880cd84fc0ba30eb0e5ac8da5a\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00229d52a6c807da4f1d868e9e9b9f898996\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d52a6c807da4f1d868e9e9b9f898996\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E As the House goes into a 2-week adjournment that coincides with the school holidays, there is a real risk of a black market developing for psychoactive substances prior to the completing of the new Act. I seek leave for the House to adjourn following the third reading of the Psychoactive Substances Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00229ee809fb68b94050bb67e992641332e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ee809fb68b94050bb67e992641332e1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection to that happening? There is. Leave is so denied.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227d52b883153a4828a3812240a9db8fb5\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d211d2ae2d534d96b39363d2700b2fe4\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ee9f74e47ba641df94963cda0ee2a373\u0022\u003EGovernment Financial Position\u20142013 Long-term Fiscal Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f457224ad52348d089f6a6eafb59426a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f457224ad52348d089f6a6eafb59426a\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he received on the long-term benefits of strong fiscal management?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00224935129aa17b408d963adb614379f137\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224935129aa17b408d963adb614379f137\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Treasury has today released its long-term fiscal update required by statute. This confirms that the sorts of decisions the Government has been making in recent years\u2014careful and considered decisions about getting effective use of Government spending\u2014have put New Zealand in a stronger fiscal position to be able manage the future impact of an aging population and rising health costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221088c04b28047d79450dee12ca173ac\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: What does the report say about fiscal discipline, and how is the Government\u2019s fiscal strategy supporting the delivery of public services in the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291545743154545a8a2e2a5cad6a83a54\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government believes that the best way to get the Government\u2019s books in order is to provide effective public services. What works for the community and for New Zealand citizens works for the Government\u2019s books. The long-term fiscal update highlights the long-term impact of the careful decision making that this Government has processed around containment of Government expenditure by offering effective public services. The Government will continue with that strategy because the report shows that, if we do, New Zealand will be in good shape to handle the rising costs of national superannuation and the rising health costs associated with an aging population. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fab82f064a7c4f10abd80990f8128db7\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: What does the report say about the costs of meeting superannuation, and how does this compare with the benefits of sound fiscal management?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4cd40ed9b1a40f18c00844b7bef0d12\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The report shows that increasing the age of eligibility from 65 to 67 for national superannuation makes a difference of around 0.7 percent of GDP by 2030. The report also shows that maintaining the Government\u2019s fiscal strategy of returning to surplus with moderate increases in spending and investment and better public services through to 2020\u2014just 7 years from now\u2014will reduce net Government debt from around 50 percent of GDP to under 10 percent of GDP. So, clearly, managing Government expenditure well has a much bigger impact on our future debt loading than small adjustments to national superannuation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f135d23e03b34b00a3859559c287ee5f\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: What alternative strategies for fiscal management would put the Government\u2019s progress in reducing debt at risk?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ca146f51541470aade848d6853ef3ca\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, of course, we get to reduce debt once we get to surplus, and once we get to surplus we need to make sure that we do not spend those surpluses on ineffective public services but that we do spend them on reducing debt. Alternative strategies that would make it harder would be those that we inherited as a Government from when Government debt was forecast to reach 50 or 60 percent of GDP simply on the basis of loose and wasteful spending by the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220458ba86a00d4553ae23f15feb23b6b7\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: When he made reference to 0.7 percent in his earlier answer, was it 0.7 percent of GDP per annum, and given that his own department says that over time New Zealand superannuation payments will consume an increasing share of Government spending if current legislative settings are retained, and given the Prime Minister\u2019s well-known memory lapses, has he been advised by the Prime Minister that he forgot his statement of 5 years ago to resign rather than raise the age of eligibility; and, if so, is he willing to do the responsible thing now, as is clearly Treasury\u2019s recommendation, and give advance notice of a gradual rise in the age of eligibility?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bd41e4130094bcc909fc6245476c60c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Bill English\u2014any of about four questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225786399ee3744af1b3c11816e2524bc5\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Prime Minister means what he says, and what he said was he would not raise the eligibility, and he will not. That is a better policy than Labour\u2019s policy, which is to raise the age of eligibility so it can waste money on all sorts of other stuff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b31b62355574991a25b69716c3bef84\u0022\u003ESkycity, Convention Centre\u2014Expressions of Interest Process and Legislation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022077a67d762b9468e8e2a7a216e1790e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022077a67d762b9468e8e2a7a216e1790e2\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002280f5c30741a2419d8d63e81293a45b13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280f5c30741a2419d8d63e81293a45b13\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Prime Minister: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6acf609e0ea41778c21e6dfb78d64dd\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: How does he justify his statement that his Government was \u201Ctotally vindicated\u201D by the Auditor-General\u2019s report into the Skycity deal when that report said that the process was flawed and not transparent, and it established deficiencies on behalf of both Ministers and officials?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228aeeb516fcaf499bbf7979b508245a87\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: He can justify that statement because the Opposition asked for that inquiry on the basis that it believed that it could knock the deal over. But, of course, that did not happen, and now hundreds of Aucklanders will benefit from the long-term job creation of a national convention centre that is finally one of international proportions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251e14494648c4cbbaf58b077c0a95e3e\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that in the course of the 6 months while the tendering process for the convention centre was under way he, his Deputy Prime Minister, or his chief of staff met with Skycity a total of six times; if so, were other bidders for the convention centre build given the same opportunity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f64ca7ddad0b47df973ecbb1f76776da\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: By the sound of it, that was fewer meetings with Skycity than the Labour Party had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022640c8770abe64cf88f3fa88188530d27\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I appreciate that there were two legs to that question but neither of them was addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0822dd64f4848aabbfe8a42f8f05990\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: On this occasion, I think the member raises a fair point. Would he please ask the question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d36ddbbc197c4bae914232f1250c980b\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly, Mr Speaker. Is it correct that in the course of the 6 months while the tendering process for the convention centre was under way he, his Deputy Prime Minister, or his chief of staff met with Skycity a total of six times; if so, were other bidders to build the convention centre given the same opportunity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022038d6f3de62141d0a34681a58730ed68\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot confirm that detail, but the Opposition has tried very hard to raise issues of probity about the negotiations. It has failed, even after the Auditor-General\u2019s close and forensic examination of the whole process. I suspect that it followed a similar process to the one that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b02940c754c48b096b4e3a9d8b79392\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The acting Prime Minister said at the start that he did not have the information. He is now going on to irrelevant material. His answer should\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f66233c8f8345e88eaf9eec6ae4ee62\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2014[Interruption] Order! It was a relatively political question but the Minister on behalf of the Prime Minister has now adequately addressed the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3862fc395744a70853489af3b298c75\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: What is his response to Major Campbell Roberts, from the Salvation Army, who said that the proposed legislation cancels out any benefits, that the harm minimisation measures allowed for in the legislation are a joke, that they are neither robust nor effective, and that they do not represent any significant improvement on the current ineffective practices of Skycity Casino, which are already failing to reduce gambling harm? What is his response to Campbell Roberts\u2019 comments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295df7502f6d14bf698d5b4c6c4d94ffb\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I have a great deal of respect for Major Campbell Roberts. He is a long-time and thoughtful advocate for many New Zealanders who do not always have an effective voice. In this case, we simply disagree with him, and it would not be the first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8248173a1384f5488cba5c4ee5d2ef8\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Are National MPs exercising a conscience vote on the legislation coming to the House today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258fa22399c1442f9918ce03be6f46df4\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The National MPs are voting consistent with the manifesto on which they campaigned. I know that is a novelty for the Labour Party, but we take it very seriously. I have noticed there are no Labour MPs on a conscience vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217cdd78e36034511a179bdded640b569\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That was an extremely direct question that the acting Prime Minister has not answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ca1fffc876944ecba33700069904ab0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was answered by saying \u201Cconsistent with the manifesto\u201D. That is an answer. That is one that I rule as satisfactory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022556085dd677d4b51827a3a13bf9ddb55\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have two points of order. Can you indicate whether saying something is consistent with a manifesto indicates that it is not a conscience vote?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226c5942a235347a6968db077f6da2ea7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is not for me to indicate; it is for the Minister to answer it the way he decides. It is my job to determine whether in my opinion the question has been adequately addressed. I have done that. Your second point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da81d38960b34471b14535ab96661fc7\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: My second point of order is that both when Grant Robertson was taking a point of order and when you were ruling on it, four or five members, including especially the Minister for Economic Development, were interjecting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa8c8d541441445081a103e19fe25c78\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All members know that points of order should be heard in silence, and when they are not heard in silence it leads to that sort of point of order being quite legitimately raised by the member. Hopefully, there will be no further breaches today, but I will keep an eye on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220d9b5285ad14fe58aae0eef8c867dc3\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: When he says National MPs are going to vote in accordance with the manifesto, does that mean National MPs are exercising a conscience vote on the bill before the House today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4cb294f462a42ccaf4874072a71950a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It means that the National caucus, as is its right to do, decides how it is going to vote. It is a misunderstanding that the Speaker or Parliament decides on that; they do not. The National caucus has decided to keep its promise, to deliver on what it said, which is an international convention centre and the thousands of jobs that go with it, having weighed up all the issues involved with expanding the convention centre.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222b047ee0234f4b78bff8ac495fa5fadb\u0022\u003EChristchurch City Council\u2014Building Consent Accreditation and Code Compliance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022 data-id=\u00228f02250c5fce4819ac256a93d54a5f35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f02250c5fce4819ac256a93d54a5f35\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Building and Construction: Has he received any reports of substandard buildings being built as part of the Christchurch rebuild; if so, how many buildings are known to be substandard?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u00223a9e0214121f4d96839beb51e5671326\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a9e0214121f4d96839beb51e5671326\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E No, I have not. During the course of the removal of Christchurch City Council\u2019s accreditation by International Accreditation New Zealand, IANZ did identify 17 consents that it had some concerns with. Staff from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment have gone back and looked at all 17 of those consents, and have found that where they did not comply it was of a minor, technical nature with regard to paperwork and documentation, but the consents are, indeed, sound with regard to the buildings themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208e69a71f1124367bd831a1e522f7640\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: When was the Minister first informed that there were issues regarding building standards as part of the Christchurch rebuild, and what action, if any, did he take to address these issues?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257eadc2e5b1643fabdb02866c4c23af9\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: The first I was informed was on 6 June, after International Accreditation New Zealand had published its 1-month notice document on 28 May. At that stage we had Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment officials in the Christchurch City Council, working alongside\u2014in fact, we had actually had them there for some time before, but they intensified their work from that point on\u2014to be able to satisfy ourselves that the consents being issued were actually sound.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022570e15c7447e4e56a9d172abdc18d51e\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Why has it taken his officials until today, only after the lodging of this question this morning, to contact engineers who have previously raised concerns with him and his department, when those engineers made him fully aware of their concerns as far back as 2008 and he chose to do nothing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022173994a831534ff894b9431f94b39934\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is referring to Mr Scarry, then I say to him this: if Mr Scarry does have a particular building\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4772c05efb8444ea6063c7ff7e3e848\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CScarry\u201D. That\u2019s the other book you were reading, Maurice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d51d2a96cf8438c99acfe8fa516e5a6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5bc51942843482b82564bd631f8d543\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am going to choose to pronounce it as \u201CScary\u201D, and I can tell him that if Mr Scarry does have a particular building that he thinks has a problem, then he has a moral obligation to bring that building to our attention and not use a scattergun approach of just saying \u201CI know of buildings\u201D but not giving us the details.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb6c677eaa7e42ae8fe75f12ea4eb4bc\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table three emails from structural engineers, including Mr John Scarry, in relation to information and advising the Minister as far back as 2008 on this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227112373bd8b4273bcd4335668897e27\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? There is none. They can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocuments, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299632250b54649e6b692bdc1a9fb5e6b\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What did he do about the serious problems in the building consent authority functions of the Christchurch City Council, which included approximately 18 months post earthquakes, given his department was made aware of these problems as far back as 2009?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268194410ad064b8b95ca89732a0febf2\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: Many of the issues around the Christchurch City Council were of a similar nature to those that many other councils have had with regard to complying with the accreditation process of International Accreditation New Zealand. In fact, in the September report of last year, the Christchurch City Council was not the worst of all the councils in New Zealand with regard to that compliance. However, in the May report of this year six corrective actions were identified that were incredibly serious. It was those six actions that International Accreditation New Zealand said it would withdraw the accreditation from, and on 29 June that is what happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224cb98d8869340ecba01abac7892b2e9\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Minister know about a building that is now referred to as the \u201CSon of CTV Building\u201D because it has a similar structure and design to the original CTV Building, which collapsed with great catastrophe, and does he now agree with structural engineer John Scarry, who commented in August last year that some members of the building industry were guilty of allowing illegal building practices in Christchurch under his watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f168cb7986f1455e8a45fd6de8ada93f\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: Once again I will tell the member that it is officials in my department who advise me as to whether buildings meet the code or not. After the CTV Building collapsed, Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment officials went and identified about 300 buildings across New Zealand that were of a similar genre, of a similar style, and of a similar design. So far every one of the evaluations they have done of those buildings has come back as the buildings being OK. But again I repeat that if the member wants to bring to me the case of a specific building, my officials will look at it. There is no benefit for me in ignoring such advice, and I will have the building looked at by them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f42caf17e69b4037ba62118dd35df9cf\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement on Checkpoint last week that the Government would never have allowed consenting to carry on if it did not comply with the law; if so, why was the Christchurch City Council building consent authority allowed to do so, in light of the September report from International Accreditation New Zealand, which included the six corrective action requests, or does he still not realise that that is actually what the report says?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9183b3530464257b56228ba30378ae6\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am delighted that the member has raised the Checkpoint interview, because immediately after the Checkpoint interview, the chief executive of International Accreditation New Zealand wrote to me and said that Mary Wilson on Checkpoint had got it wrong. None of the consents issued were illegal. What they did have were concerns about compliance with the building code, but, actually, no illegal consents, or consents that were not consistent with the law, had been issued.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231709a4ccb4a4360bd694205604a5081\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the transcript from that Checkpoint interview\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022125f022b3ed74348a698c3b7b3a46d9d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. [Interruption] Order! That information is freely accessible by any member who wants to get it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f8b4b0fb0174b8cb697fbb8a089f150\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The difficulty that I have is that the Minister referred to a statement as if the interviewer made it. He was the one\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227625b668fa404e81b0ef6f862d4f192d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is now a debating point. If the member has further supplementary questions, she can use them, but it is not a means of justifying the tabling of a radio transcript.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281cc39a01cc24d789237e284827c1f6d\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the letter from the chief executive of International Accreditation New Zealand to me, pointing out that what was raised on that programme was incorrect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241fdaf38f5724662affd65b15e3ad047\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that letter. Is there any objection? There appears to be none. It can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249cf71966b2b41949c9d65df467bf0dd\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Was it the Minister who in fact used the word \u201Cillegal\u201D in the interview with Mary Wilson on Checkpoint?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ab3174d928a4359bdba14a90d0686e6\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: I would be foolish to try to recall every word used in the interview, but I do know that the words used during the interview by the person doing it, Mary Wilson, were incorrect, and that is what the chief executive wrote the letter to me to correct\u2014what Mary Wilson had said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b43a8fe4245e4b78a11a6faf2c6f4ec0\u0022\u003EFreshwater Management\u2014Reform\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2a805d1026a472aa1cdb10d5f8f0083\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2a805d1026a472aa1cdb10d5f8f0083\u0022\u003ECLAUDETTE HAUITI (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: What recent announcements has the Government made to improve New Zealand\u2019s freshwater management?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec0d5d34780e48568668eb93a73643c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec0d5d34780e48568668eb93a73643c3\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, with my colleague Nathan Guy, I announced the Government\u2019s decisions on the first stage of what will be the most comprehensive reform of freshwater management for many years. The announcement confirmed that a collaborative planning option for freshwater management will be created, that legislative changes will be made to facilitate the introduction of a national objectives framework, and that councils will be required to ensure that iwi views are properly considered in freshwater planning. All these changes were key recommendations of the Land and Water Forum and received widespread support during our consultation on freshwater reforms earlier this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268e079492d9542fd9698723544da88db\u0022\u003EClaudette Hauiti\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister seen of reactions to yesterday\u2019s announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210254e36f4c84fec802a52ce89505b2f\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen some very positive reports in relation to the announcements. I have seen them welcomed by many groups, including Local Government New Zealand, Ng\u0101i Tahu, the Environmental Defence Society, and the Royal Forest and Bird Protection Society. That consensus is testament to the successful collaboration project this Government created to improve freshwater management\u2014the Land and Water Forum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c92773ae3a774a768ffa44755e2a64d9\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: In the context of that announcement, why has she chosen to limit the right to appeal court decisions that might harm the environment, and how does this square with her environmental protection responsibilities and the comparable rights that people have in other jurisdictions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dc65649ddd54ae380d5ff72a45b2adb\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would just refer the member to the Land and Water Forum report, which made it very clear that for collaborative projects to work, there need to be the right incentives for the people sitting round the table to understand that the decisions are best made there, not by trying to reserve a position and then coming around and appealing, in any event. And I would note that the Environmental Defence Society specifically made the point yesterday, in its comments, of agreeing that in this situation, taking that approach is entirely, to use their word, \u201Ckosher\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022990f78d5e00e4041b8566dc6b681ae26\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou. Does she believe that the rights and interests of M\u0101ori as Treaty partners have been protected in freshwater management; if so, how?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022885263b3058a4b9a92ff4308cb33787f\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would say to the member that the rights and interests of iwi in freshwater management are a complex set of issues that have to be worked through, and they will have many more iterations before we can say that we have completely resolved all issues, but I am very confident that the changes we have made in respect of how iwi engage with freshwater planning have the support of a wide range of iwi, are sensible, will help clarify the arrangements, and will ensure that the views of iwi are expressed properly and much earlier on in the process, which is critical to having a more meaningful engagement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022be140cdde38f41b490722d7967d4b692\u0022\u003ESkycity, Convention Centre\u2014Advice on Gambling-related Harm\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u002259d0b563523b4625aa183b58d4b57ba2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259d0b563523b4625aa183b58d4b57ba2\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Development: When will he release all of the advice he has received on the social harms from the SkyCity deal, given his statement yesterday that it is his \u201Cunderstanding\u201D that only \u201Cmost\u201D of the advice has been released?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022347487690a164904b90e4d35d7c46795\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022347487690a164904b90e4d35d7c46795\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E I said to the member yesterday that I would check again, and I have. On Monday we released most of the material relating to social harm, along with Cabinet papers relating to the agreement and, of course, the regulatory impact statement. As I said to the member yesterday, there is more information relating to the wider agreement that will be released soon. That material includes a number of briefings and correspondence relating to the negotiations themselves. Inevitably, some of that material will include some information about harm reduction, but the main documents in regard to harm minimisation have already been released.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db933b178980419ebefe8d688849dd50\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any advice on how many Auckland children will be left alone in the Skycity car-park as a result of increased gambling under the Skycity deal, given that there were seven reports\u2014seven\u2014of children left alone in that car-park last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233f55dd6a2934ca7b6bd5f81ffeccbbe\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I have received advice regarding harm minimisation more generally, not on the specific item that the member raises, and that information is contained in the report. It makes it clear that it is not possible to say that as a result of the changes there will necessarily be any increase in some of the social issues the member outlines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022712508059b2e44b6add9b43110f779d1\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister asked for or seen any advice about how many jobs in Auckland will be lost due to Auckland businesses folding from more gambling-related fraud from increased gambling under the Skycity deal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225d7914a2b4e429d80e12028676f2a02\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: No. What I have received advice on in relation to jobs are the 1,000 construction jobs created with the convention centre, and the approximately 800 jobs that will be created for its ongoing operation, which go, of course, with the 3,500 jobs currently held by employees of Skycity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2f6cafa250f451b915d54791f572130\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister read the KPMG fraud survey that shows that gambling remains a major motivator of fraud, with high individual losses, and has he sought advice on the economic cost of fraud from increased gambling under the Skycity deal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6b37c57e9124f2d8799258fe003ea76\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I have not seen the particular report that the member outlines. I am sure she could dig out some other reports if she wished to. What I have been through though, in some detail, is a regulatory impact statement that lays out the potential risks, and also lays out the benefits of this arrangement. I can inform the member again\u2014and the House will get the opportunity to vote on this, this afternoon\u2014that it is the Government\u2019s view that the balance is in favour of proceeding with this arrangement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229077d00455f84a3b904a0fa9d8157746\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister sought advice on how much money Auckland charities can expect to have stolen as a result of gambling-related theft arising from the Skycity deal, given that more than 50 percent of stolen charity funds are stolen to fuel problem gambling, and how many jobs in those charities are expected to be lost as a result of that theft?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295d3db97460b42e28a60cba39d7b4e85\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, with the greatest respect to the member, we could go through every possible social harm in Auckland, but, again, I would point out to the member that there is no guarantee that they would increase under this arrangement, because the reality is that the marginal increase in pokie machines by Skycity in this arrangement is more than offset by the decline of pokie machines across the rest of Auckland and the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be3ec067fd584576961fc81c6375be71\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was very specific, and was as to whether the Minister has sought advice on the issue of theft from charities\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f17dd0271f74fa98feedc6873255f6b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I certainly heard the question. I thought the Minister made a reasonable attempt, but if he could just clarify whether he has sought any specific advice on that specific issue of Auckland charities having money stolen from them, then that would presumably be of satisfaction to the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e51e2999e76446d4a18834556b81cb07\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: No; and I can probably give the same answer for a number of her further supplementary questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0940328249d42a4b3e03ca98b5b229c\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the KordaMentha report into the Skycity deal omit to factor in the increased risk of business fraud and increased theft from charities and the subsequent job losses, and can we take it, then, that the report does not provide an accurate assessment of the actual costs or benefits of the Skycity deal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af28a32f659b4c8c80c9dadf90e10966\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The member constantly\u2014and, I can only think, deliberately\u2014seeks to misrepresent the position of the KordaMentha report. The KordaMentha report was designed to balance the economic benefits to Skycity versus the economic benefits to the Crown to check that there was fairness in terms of the allocation. It was not designed to assess the social harm risks. That has been adequately dealt with, as I said, in the regulatory impact statement. Again, it is by no means clear at all that a marginal increase in machines in one casino will increase gambling harm, especially when the total number of machines across Auckland and across New Zealand continues to decline.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0c58b4531774368bfeb7a8e063e5219\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Minister has no idea how much money will be stolen, how many businesses will fold, or how many jobs will be lost from the increase in gambling-related crime under the Skycity deal, can we take it, then, that his job numbers are at best, inaccurate, and at worst just made up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268394c73055446a8857fb5828c3c546c\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: No. I can tell the member what I do have no idea about, and that is why it is that the Greens are so vociferously opposed to this deal when they were so silent about the deal that occurred under the previous Labour Government. I can conclude only that it is politics and it is not principle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d29c581c3bc34ad9aa84ccdf6bb79c39\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister has no responsibility for the Greens\u2019 policy, he has no responsibility for the previous Labour Government, and he has no responsibility for the decisions of Judith Collins before she was a Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228185d8f9de1a4b16974b3d24b5cecc23\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! And I do not think that in any way the Minister, through his answer, accepted responsibility for the Green Party, the former Labour Government, or decisions by Judith Collins. He simply responded to a question that was relatively political, and he responded politically back again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002289d490fa755c40a1a470869ce6b81cba\u0022\u003EFuture Investment Fund\u2014Potential Financial Support for Solid Energy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00228c541f96b2a9420dbaa77474ecd8fbbc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c541f96b2a9420dbaa77474ecd8fbbc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he take responsibility for the composition of Budget 2013?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d48581ef9d1a4c1a89eb0f365f5f57fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d48581ef9d1a4c1a89eb0f365f5f57fa\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I am responsible for the Budget and presenting it to the House. Cabinet is collectively responsible for the policy decisions taken for the Budget. Treasury is responsible for the fiscal and economic forecasts because it is required by statute to be independent, as it is with reporting the Crown accounts, the physical preparation, and printing of Budget documents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223a20909ac6b4e178af8f74971041d9b\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: In his Treasury document Establishing the Future Investment Fund, dated 2 April 2012, did he agree with Treasury that \u201Cany new capital expenditure will count against the Fund,\u201D so Treasury followed his instruction by appropriating $100 million for Solid Energy from the Future Investment Fund in 2013?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022186401066e0a42579e7965c572691d49\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not agree with that characterisation of it. As we pointed out, the Government has contemplated support for Solid Energy. It has not been required. The form in which it was contemplated was a secured repayable loan, which would not count against the Future Investment Fund. The Budget documents give a misleading impression of Cabinet\u2019s decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022216835373fec4d408c456ece8e3b517f\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table that Treasury report, dated 2 April 2012, which included the Minister\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284c26c38fc0042f582305ceb3bed7e10\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Is it included in the Budget documents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3fa7d2ca11d450eae657e946dd7164e\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: No. It is not a Budget document. It is the direction dated 2 April 2012 of the Minister of Finance agreeing that any new capital expenditure will account\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260bfcffaa35b4e7e8a607ad0082b2b00\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! No, I think it is well enough described. I will put the leave. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f9334c9afb047179202f69bbe693345\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does he really expect the public to believe that he and all of his staff, Ministers Joyce and Ryall, the Secretary of the Treasury and all his staff, and the Prime Minister were so incompetent that they all made a $100 million error and mistakenly appropriated $100 million from the Future Investment Fund for Solid Energy recovery facilities, or is he once again covering up for the Prime Minister, who does not want to associate the Future Investment Fund with mismanagement of Solid Energy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232d49e19bbe743b09d28312dc683b850\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not agree with the questioner. But I am surprised that he thinks the public thinks it matters an awful lot just how Treasury accounted for a Cabinet decision. What the public want to see is growth, jobs, and better incomes. We are focusing on that while he is focusing on whether Treasury got its accounting right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ccfa0c0903b4cc5b20f5015a62b30cf\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that he has caught the same disease as the Prime Minister, which has rendered him unable to comprehend his own officials or read and recall his own Cabinet directives to Treasury and Budget documents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f81ad3433a524ab4bc37a3a1235c5bed\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No. I fully understand the Cabinet decision on this matter, and Treasury\u2019s treatment of it as one that does not reflect the Cabinet decision. As I said, the Government spends a good deal more time on trying to help create jobs and grow incomes, and a good deal less time than the member might presume on the details of public sector accounting, which is actually a job for Treasury, which it needs to do in a way that reflects Cabinet decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222072f61b42b940388f94604f23cf9784\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the A3 document that was presented to Cabinet called Finalising the Budget 2013 Future Investment Fund Package, which included the $100 million allocation to Solid Energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291a669ad7e89464db4d5a2120936a1c3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that. Is there any objection? Yes, there is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c1d0716418944b37bb155cd66b8d5941\u0022\u003EBusiness Growth Agenda\u2014Callaghan Innovation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef3517f1283a4679844e8e10117dc4ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef3517f1283a4679844e8e10117dc4ed\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Science and Innovation: What support is the Government giving to businesses to increase innovation and speed up the commercialisation of new products and services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9376a3183804bd7b04ecc0bd5e70ea1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9376a3183804bd7b04ecc0bd5e70ea1\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Science and Innovation):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is very focused on doing exactly those things. This week Callaghan Innovation released its first full 3-year statement of intent, which lays out its road map for becoming the high-tech HQ for New Zealand businesses. Established by the Government in February this year, as part of the Business Growth Agenda, Callaghan Innovation will assist firms across New Zealand to turn their ideas into exportable products and services more quickly, providing jobs and growth for New Zealanders and their families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c944b91cb784632b771ea18b35dec11\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: What will be the key areas of focus for Callaghan Innovation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a75c2f43961a42de98ca610954bcf693\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The Government recognises the importance of increasing investment and innovation, achieving economic growth, and making New Zealand businesses more internationally competitive and successful. So Callaghan Innovation\u2019s role will be to provide research and technical services supporting near-to-market innovation, award and administer grants to encourage business investment in research and development, assist firms to develop skills and expertise to take ideas to market, help businesses access the services they need across research organisations, set up and support national technology networks, and foster a culture of innovation among current and future business leaders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022909aebb2b81e4e2c8804e6cd99e2a417\u0022\u003EChild, Youth and Family\u2014Resourcing and Increase in Notifications\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022f13493881e8448bfa701daf34e052e3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f13493881e8448bfa701daf34e052e3d\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: Does she stand by the statement made on her behalf in the House yesterday that \u201Cthere will always be times when resources are stretched, but I believe we do have sufficient resources to care for the needs of vulnerable children\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u002221cd671ee4d04c13a9b30479d8f3fc44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221cd671ee4d04c13a9b30479d8f3fc44\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS (Acting Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. In particular, I stand by my statement that we now have more social workers with a bigger budget investigating more cases in a more timely way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022763aa987f2fc41b5b3c1c8256b28f417\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: If Child, Youth and Family has all the resources it needs to deal with the 50 percent increase in notifications that require further action since 2008, why do the Midland region and the central region, which include Rotorua right through to Porirua, have fewer permanent social workers now than they did 5 years ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b38dd2fa0e1446295ec51e5ab3b9b7a\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: It is important to note that across the country there are 250 more social workers working on the front line. They are investigating more cases that are reported to them, and there are 150,000 notifications a year. Each is triaged, each is investigated, and in the cases that the member quoted yesterday, every one of them was dealt with within the time frame, and the issue was around the length of time it took to record, not to act and intervene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225800fc75c5c6403f914b95a038d07329\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Point of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f97a3ee4ad844c5fbf3538db2a774eea\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I apologise to the member. That was a very specific question about a particular region and the numbers, and it was not addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220894f2c2274e4dce9d780e9b517af73c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There was a specific question around two regions, Midland and central. I think it would be helpful for the member to ask the question again for the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022496ec15c7b334680b7f35535066989e2\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: If Child, Youth and Family has all the resources it needs to deal with the 50 percent increase in notifications that require further action since 2008, why do the Midland region and the central region, which include Rotorua through to Porirua, have fewer permanent staff now than they did 5 years ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022deee2b6cf3df4663a05d4ba6167c6692\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: I can only conclude, because they are meeting the time frames required, that they do have sufficient resources in those two regions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2bb56dc771647af97c6af8c60653008\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the statement by Lucy Sandford-Reed, Chief Executive of the Aotearoa New Zealand Association of Social Workers, that \u201CCYF staff levels have not increased at the level that\u2019s matching the number of notifications that are being recorded\u201D and \u201Care simply a drop in the bucket\u201D; if not, what evidence does he have that staffing levels are sufficient?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d8f083f45a848cf81c7e797b9955738\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: I believe that Child, Youth and Family social worker numbers have increased adequately to deal with the increased notifications, and I also note that the way in which matters are dealt with now\u2014the way investigations are run, technology use, and cross-agency collaboration\u2014means that we are doing it in different ways from what we have in the past, and that reflects the numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243e6fae0ee864671853a3bfe200cc595\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I did ask what evidence was available to back up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f56bcbcb009f4f4a907437d4899c2846\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! The difficulty is the member asked two questions within her supplementary question, and the Minister has obviously chosen to answer the first question. [Interruption] Order! The Minister quite clearly answered the first part, about whether he agreed with the statement by a lady you quoted. He has quite clearly answered that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3308b1ed56d4159b6424bc54c02d2f4\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It seemed to me that actually the Minister was addressing the second part of the question, but in doing so did not go all the way to actually providing any kind of evidence, rather than just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a638995043c44a95a8e712dd2c6fa65e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I have ruled that the Minister addressed the first part of the member\u2019s question. He is not required to answer the second part. Has the member further supplementary questions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea5ca1e8661c4a85809b1ce602fe1983\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Why will the Minister not agree to a baseline review of Child, Youth and Family, given that the last one was 10 years ago under Labour and since that time demand on social workers has grown exponentially, or has the Minister instead prioritised her trip to Malta to sign a pension portability agreement that affects just five Kiwis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291ae41c6c46346ad9254ff76cc57c81c\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: It is interesting to note that the Minister in charge of Child, Youth and Family in 2003, the Hon Ruth Dyson, quite appropriately did a baseline review because of the fact that that department was in disarray. We have benefited over time from that review, but, just to give an example, in March 2004\u2014a year after that review\u2014the number of unallocated cases was 4,709. As of 31 May this year there were 44 unallocated cases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022484fd68327374c4a828b11ce4599a6f5\u0022\u003EEmissions Trading Scheme\u2014Issuing and Price of Units\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4cad828542e4346a9834c5bbb9cadee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4cad828542e4346a9834c5bbb9cadee\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Climate Change Issues: How did he meet his obligations under the Climate Change Response Act 2002 to maintain the proper functioning of the ETS when he directed the issuing of 30 million additional New Zealand Units?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00222c8d4dd70349450db954954f44d6ba3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c8d4dd70349450db954954f44d6ba3e\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Acting Minister for Climate Change Issues):\u003C/span\u003E The Minister set this out in the ministerial statement he made accompanying the direction to issue New Zealand Units, both of which were tabled and gazetted in accordance with the Act: \u201CThe proper functioning of the NZ ETS requires the issuance of sufficient NZUs to meet entitlements of post-1989 forestry participants; any entitlements under an allocation plan; and any auctions of NZUs the Crown undertakes.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fb55d5422ed425ca822065f0101c5ce\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: Given estimates that there is a current supply of some 85 million New Zealand Units while annual demand is around 15 million New Zealand Units, how can he justify issuing 30 million additional units?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb48863c645141039ebd523bda6ea4ff\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I would have thought that the Greens were sympathetic to printing off more currency, given that that is their current policy. But the fact of the matter is that I am obliged to ensure the Government has enough New Zealand Units to meet certain legal obligations, so that is what I do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280526b2b4e0547118eb796c0b0a74f64\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe that issuing 30 million more units will increase the price of New Zealand Units, which are currently trading at around $2; if not, how will the additional units incentivise decarbonisation of our economy, in particular, the disincentive to foresters, which is the rationale that is adduced?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022797e3bf8bf7146218abf4e0347ff237b\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I am not a soothsayer, so I cannot predict what prices will do. The fact of the matter is our emissions trading scheme is working well. What the member asks about is a product of a very low international carbon price. We believe in this country that we want New Zealanders to do their fair share\u2014not to be paying above that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241d8105e4fc347d28c9da6167f21c2c9\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: How is having a carbon unit worth $2, which is actually lower than the international price in Europe, meeting his ministerial obligations under section 68 of the Climate Change Response Act to maintain the proper functioning of the emissions trading scheme, given that our gross and net emissions continue to rise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a0c25f9c3c04131b389871740dbd05f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: The member clearly was not listening. As I said, we are committed to doing our fair share. That means working at not trying to have policy settings above the international price. Actually, the member is wrong. I think he will find international prices are much lower than he suggested. That is the situation they are in today, but it would be a brave person who tried to bet the bank on what the prices may be even a couple of years into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002263934183b9bd42f086e6f5a119a1ada8\u0022\u003EHousing, Affordable\u2014Impact of Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022cea128ed21ac4a48b1558a2bd0230dab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cea128ed21ac4a48b1558a2bd0230dab\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: How many homes does he believe will be built as a result of the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill, and what percentage of those homes will be affordable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00226b56d8b6412b407981a6dad4189203c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b56d8b6412b407981a6dad4189203c7\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Many thousands. The Auckland Housing Accord provides for 39,000 homes over 3 years. The accord specifically allows conditions of consent for qualifying developments to require a proportion of homes to be for first-home buyers or to be in the affordable range, but these conditions would be set by council. The Government has successfully implemented such a requirement, with 20 percent in Hobsonville, but is actually achieving 26 percent. I note that the proportion of affordable houses built dropped from 16 percent in 2000 to 6 percent in 2008. I am confident that the Government\u2019s initiatives will reverse that negative trend. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f1363a0c03146c08dffc4b4174da131\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to the Property Council, Todd Property Group, the Salvation Army, and the Auckland, Hamilton, Waikato, and Tauranga city councils, which all told the Social Services Committee that they do not believe that the bill would result in any affordable homes being built; and will he keep blaming councils when his housing policy fails to deliver affordable housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8f272df44e3447ab84bba7beb8cdc95\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I simply point the member to Hobsonville, where this Government is building thousands of homes and is specifically requiring a portion of those homes to be affordable. But I am not going to take a lecture from the Labour Party, when the proportion of affordable houses dropped from 16 percent in 2000 to just 6 percent in 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3d2296050ef485293f8b2ddf2affec8\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: If the council follows the processes in the Auckland Housing Accord and the number of houses agreed to by the Government is not delivered, will he take personal responsibility for the failure of his policy, and will he step down as Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f0994f4ac1c4a108c1e015132cb80a5\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I note that there is a strong increase in the number of houses that have been built both in Christchurch and in Auckland. I note that the Auckland Council is delighted with the deal that we have been able to achieve with this Government to get more houses built. I also ask how many members opposite are taking responsibility for the hard facts that when Labour became Government, 16 percent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022973f96d1cec047ec87d6a18e0f969b1b\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked whether the Minister would take responsibility if the targets in his policy and his accord are not reached. He has not even addressed that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d78c8328635340e49169ee828f32eb8c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You went further than that, though. You asked whether he would take responsibility, and, if particular targets were not reached, whether he would resign. I think a yes or no answer to that is unlikely to be delivered. The Minister has chosen to deliver the answer that he has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f80cc5ef89ff465c9f88bb9a267642ef\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Did he admit to the select committee that there was no way of measuring the success of his bill; if so, how will he know whether to blame the council for the failure to meet the targets, as will inevitably happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241021a3ae77e473a87861aab717c5462\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Every month the number of building permits is published and so we will know\u2014not just in Auckland, but around the country\u2014although I note that in every month this year there has been an increase in the number of building permits that are being issued. The target sets out an ambitious target of 39,000 houses. But what the Labour Party cannot stand is that this Government is working effectively with the Auckland Council to address the issue of housing that it ignored for 9 long years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220887935e927548cb859ce007011f2fd8\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: What specific steps has the Minister taken in the 15 days since he last answered a question from me to ensure that in Auckland there are sufficient town planners, tradespeople, developers, and funding to cope with his promised threefold increase in houses to be built?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229057d6b3561e456ea77d1b9e543b884f\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I would simply point to the many initiatives that this Government has taken. A key feature of the Budget was our housing reforms, the special housing areas accords, the social housing legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258fe1af9c6624b8b9c6d559c327a7ae9\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was quite specific. I asked what specific steps the Minister has taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227404fd59c2b744d89558d29eea5c9d4c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And the Minister is attempting to answer it. If the member would stay seated and listen to the answer, I hope he will then be satisfied.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cde9ef60e9f24684b023b0032c812a20\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: We have two major bills before the House, one on the housing accords and special housing areas, as well as the social housing legislation. The main grizzles I am getting from members opposite are that we are going too fast in getting this legislation through, to make a difference, rather than the complaints we now hear from one of the members of the Opposition, that we are not going fast enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221efa99f0ad574615bf8531074937ea57\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I still did not hear any specific steps that the Minister is taking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224019da30354f40859108651541f1a2fc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member needs to listen more carefully to the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022667e6cf7b2984d829554f1dff97ba49a\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister acknowledge that his promise of 39,000 new homes consented in 3 years represents an extra 50 new homes consented every working day, and can he tell the House just how many new homes have been consented in the 39 working days since the Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e901434f487c4824b599d3c71232f578\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: It is a bit rich for the Opposition to be criticising the effects of legislation that has not yet been passed and that members opposite are opposing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaa53e27996448ae8d2c8ded5bbd0e42\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is not my normal habit to defend that member up there, but on this particular occasion he asked a hard but straight and factual question, and I do not think that even he deserves that abuse at this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280d91225b6c4430694a9144f61324101\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for his point of order. I invite Brendan Horan to re-ask that last supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce8e54099392483f9c1c23b4d978c701\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: I take offence at \u201Ceven he\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d47d2948247f44b99f502000c42d8dd7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Then I will attempt to help the member on this occasion. He asked: if there are going to be 39,000 new houses built, it is 50 a day, and how many consents have been issued in the 39 working days since the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee93eb2839a84f54a41962a937d09aec\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The measures that the Government has announced in the Budget are being advanced as quickly as possible through the select committee process. I would ask the member to support the good work of that select committee, and support that bill through the House so that we can build more houses and create those special housing areas. But I further note that this year already, each month we have seen an increase in the number of building consents granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a9ab9bf714f343c1b0cf9ba752f85d2b\u0022\u003EDistrict Health Boards\u2014Health Quality and Safety Markers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022270bdcf0831b471fb3fd986c664194ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022270bdcf0831b471fb3fd986c664194ee\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Health: Has she received any recent reports regarding district health board performance in taking steps to improve patient safety in hospitals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u00220c6a6634c3774b9f9f32ad1fee0982c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c6a6634c3774b9f9f32ad1fee0982c4\u0022\u003EHon JO GOODHEW (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes; in June the Health Quality and Safety Commission published district health board performance data against the new health quality and safety markers. The data shows some excellent achievements by district health boards but also areas where more work is needed. No district health board performed well on all four measures or performed badly on all four.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cfbc074d59e49fb877b6ef56b526f96\u0022\u003EScott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: What are the quality and safety markers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022170be3d477a745a296dd4115df8b0bfc\u0022\u003EHon JO GOODHEW\u003C/span\u003E: The markers set goals for district health boards\u2019 use of interventions known to reduce patient harm caused by falls, health care associated infections, and surgery. The June results are a baseline from which I expect district health boards will continue to improve. District health boards\u2019 performance will be reported again in December, and quarterly after that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a047fee997b44ae9993852981c3e66f9\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f18398b835644d2e95459f9b5a9743fe\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, normally you do it from your seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d20bedff7256487d89c79d539f37a391\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise. Well, actually in some other Parliaments, of course, you do not have this rule; you can do so from anywhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270344694d6c943328bc6059e79959f11\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just get to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b3975fe65374f8ba137a0c1e3e56ca6\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: The point of order goes to the reason for that question being allowed to be put to the Associate Minister. I have reviewed the Associate Minister\u2019s delegations, as have been tabled in the House, and they include functions to do with public health, including water, environmental health, and measles\u2014but excluding emergency management\u2014to do with aged care, certification, health care services, the Health Quality and Safety Commission, health promotion agencies, and rural health\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022040269c46d184e83b6c760f360d141ab\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please get to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259d04be4eebb4ceeacd49bf5deea74b5\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the point is that there is nothing stopping that Associate Minister answering a question on behalf of the Minister, but there appears to be nothing in her delegations that gives her responsibility to have that question asked as an Associate Minister. As you know, although you can transfer from Minister to Minister, you cannot transfer to an Associate Minister in that circumstance. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f019f668fada4707858d91872a3d5b30\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not need assistance from the Associate Minister. On this occasion the difficulty I have is that the question has been put, it has been accepted by the House, and it has now been answered by the Associate Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b771bbd1ac7b4cdea83449062c91d26e\u0022\u003EHealth and Safety, Workplace\u2014Forestry Industry and Pike River Mine Disaster\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022e56f63c7ee424891afb04d55af9db66f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e56f63c7ee424891afb04d55af9db66f\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: How many workplace deaths have there been in the last four years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u002245c432f6206543b5801560f7300adaef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245c432f6206543b5801560f7300adaef\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I cannot provide definitive statistics for 2011 and 2012. They are not yet available. What I can tell the member is that since 2003, on average, there have been 75 workplace deaths per year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022507a7995027f4b68be2e193170cc0731\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Further to his answer to my question on 3 July about safety in the forestry industry, when he said: \u201CWe know what the problem is. Actually, we know what the solutions are.\u201D, can he tell me what solutions he has to long working hours in this dangerous industry while at the same time he is trying to cut rest and meal breaks for all workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c87e699ac07e4661827b228bdfa3cbc2\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: As the member knows, she and I have a different perspective on that. She would say that it is primarily about hours and meal breaks, and so on. What I say and actually what I have heard is that it is much more about some of the more substantive issues in forestry, which the approved code of practice deals with, like tree felling and having the correct techniques there, and breaking out and the equipment and gear used for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5c0406b3dd342c6b9ada5f9ce430ee5\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: How can he claim he knows the solutions when the provisions for breaks and fatigue management in his 2012 approved code of practice are similar, if in fact not weaker, than the provisions of the 1999 approved code of practice, signed by the Hon Max Bradford?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d07c9c83e0694cb392735d55282349d8\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I think, as I have made clear previously to the member, that there have been agendas and action plans, but what is new and what is recent is the Approved Code of Practice for Safety and Health in Forest Operations. What I have heard when I have been with owners and inspectors and the like is that actually if this is followed, we will not have the number of deaths that we have today. The member and I both agree that there are far too many deaths. We need to see this bed in and put into practice in a much greater way than it has been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae1d52480cc541eabc8591cbcd82d0b7\u0022\u003EDenise Roche\u003C/span\u003E: How many more deaths in the forestry industry need to happen before this Government will action an inquiry into health and safety in the forestry sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a56da6bf69f4e8f91fc0ed739de6824\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: No death is good enough. It is entirely unacceptable. But I think this Government, more than any other Government in the history of New Zealand, has had royal commissions and inquiries in the health and safety arena. I will very soon be responding\u2014I think, in a substantive way\u2014to the Independent Taskforce on Workplace Health and Safety. Of course, we are setting up WorkSafe New Zealand, an independent agency. I think we can quite rightly make the case that we have done more than any Government in this area, and an inquiry in relation to forestry specifically is not needed. Actually, what we need to do is bed in good practice that we know about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264dc5ea6ea0747b79a36f520ebec9991\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Forest Owners Association is now also saying that there should be an independent inquiry, will he take responsibility for any forestry deaths while he continues to insist he has all the answers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022603991e8050545a98c92689e89d78820\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think the member is correct, because what she calls an inquiry is not actually what, as I understand it, the Forest Owners Association is talking about. I have certainly made it quite clear that I do not support a Government-led inquiry, but if the Forest Owners Association is prepared to go out and do some of the things, that is good. But as I have also said on record, I think we actually know what the solutions are. It is about embedding them and seeing them acted out and practised in our forests around New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d095b16ff264ecda15b810c2cd0dcd1\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister take responsibility for due compensation to be paid to the 29 Pike River families, given the failure of his department to uphold proper standards of workplace safety; if not, will the Government change legislation to make the directors of Pike River Coal directly responsible for that compensation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e435d7daf91c47e280dae17437ba9a4b\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I need to be, I think, reasonably judicious in answering that question because the fact of the matter is there are still related matters before the court, and I have not received substantive legal advice on that very issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002269b3861a54b84462b550989ed50b2f40\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222c1a91afce004eb3a6e8d70eadaae5ea\u0022\u003EFree-trade Agreement\u2014New Zealand - Taiwan\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022d526d3ae3afe4100ad38c689a0a459fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d526d3ae3afe4100ad38c689a0a459fa\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Honourable members, I have received a letter from Dr Kennedy Graham seeking to debate under Standing Order 386 the signing of a free-trade agreement with Taiwan. This is a particular case of recent occurrence involving ministerial responsibility. The Government is required to present such international agreements to the House, along with a national interest analysis. These stand referred to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee for examination. This is the manner in which the House considers such agreements in the first instance. In this case, the member\u2019s own authentication indicates that legislation is also required to give the agreement effect sometime during next year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThere would need to be something exceptional about such a free-trade agreement to warrant the business of the House being set aside for an urgent debate. There is nothing in the member\u2019s application that convinces me that I would be justified in allowing a debate today. The application is therefore declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220b8ff9f2605c44e29ec99601c117f28f\u0022\u003ENew Zealand International Convention Centre Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221e633c61b4d04372be1a6c52653e9123\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u002298901c1094aa4ebbaaff6df481f19e61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298901c1094aa4ebbaaff6df481f19e61\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Commerce Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 14 November 2013. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EIt gives me great pleasure to introduce this bill. This bill is first and foremost about investment, jobs, and growth for New Zealanders and their families. For years the tourism industry and the business sector have been seeking an international-size convention centre to be built in New Zealand to ensure that we compete with Australia and Asia and tap into the growing market of high-value business visitors. This bill shows that this Government is again delivering on not only that but its economic promise to create jobs and growth. The agreement signed last week between the Government and Skycity to build a world-class convention centre in Auckland will create jobs, boost tourism, and bring significant benefits to the Auckland and New Zealand economies\u2014and all of this for little, if any, investment by New Zealand taxpayers. These benefits include a projected $90 million annual injection into the economy, an estimated 1,000 jobs during construction, and 800 jobs once it is up and running. It is estimated that the new facility will cater for 3,500 international convention delegates at any one time, and attract around 33,000 more delegates each year. It is yet another worthy initiative\u2014one of many introduced under the leadership of this Prime Minister\u2014to build a more competitive and productive economy for this country. It is very similar to an arrangement signed in 2001 to build a much smaller convention centre, one signed off under the Labour Government of that time and celebrated by the former Prime Minister Helen Clark and her then Minister of Tourism without any of the hysterical protest we see today from the Green Party or, indeed, parts of the Labour Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThis bill gives effect to the New Zealand International Convention Centre and Licensing Agreement, including giving effect to the regulatory concessions, ensuring that agreement terms may be enforced as intended, establishing the protection of the names \u201CNew Zealand International Convention Centre\u201D and \u201CNZICC\u201D, and ensuring that the land upon which the International Convention Centre is to be built cannot be used for any other purpose. The concessions granted in the agreement are applicable only to the holder of the Skycity Casino operating licence, and not all casino licence holders. The bill provides that the regulatory concessions may not be varied except by an Act of Parliament. In one simple amendment, the regulatory concessions provided under the agreement will be subject to the existing gambling regime. The Gambling Act will apply to the concessions and all gambling conducted under the concessions as if they were permitted under that Act. The concessions will therefore be administered, monitored, and enforced in accordance with the Gambling Act and any rules or regulations made under that Act. That is a very important point for this House to note. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EUnder the bill, a person will be prohibited from incorporating or registering any entity under the name \u201CNew Zealand International Convention Centre\u201D or \u201CNZICC\u201D, and a person is also prohibited from using either of these names as the names of an organisation or building, and from trading or carrying on business under either of those names unless the person has authorisation from the Minister for Economic Development. The House should note that it is the Crown\u2019s intention to grant to Skycity an exclusive licence to the New Zealand International Convention Centre brand as part of the agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe bill provides for the following regulatory concessions for Skycity, and these take effect on the signing of the building works contract and will apply until 30 June 2048, unless the agreement is terminated prior to that date. These include an extension of the Skycity Casino licence, which is due to expire in 2021, out to 30 June 2048; an amendment to cover all of Skycity\u2019s properties in Federal Street; an additional 230 pokie machines on the casino floor; an additional 40 gaming tables; a further 12 gaming tables that can be substituted for automated table game player stations, but not pokie machines; up to 17 percent of pokie machines and automated table games in restricted areas only being able to accept banknotes of denominations greater than $20; and introducing ticket-in, ticket-out and card-based cashless gaming technology on all pokie machines and automated table games at Skycity Casino. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe Government as part of this agreement has insisted on a number of significant harm minimisation measures to deter problem gambling and money-laundering. The agreement requires Skycity to implement these by the time the regulatory concessions come into effect. They are a predictive modelling tool that analyses data to identify players at risk of problem gambling; a voluntary pre-commitment system where players can elect to restrict the amount of time they play or the amount they spend; doubling the number of Host Responsibility specialists to deliver 24-hour, 7-day-a-week coverage; and the introduction of player identification requirements when amounts over $500 are being put on to or cashed from ticket-in, ticket-out tickets in non-restricted areas. The adoption of these measures does not affect Skycity\u2019s ongoing obligation to comply with harm minimisation and anti - money-laundering obligations, which, again, is a very important point for this House to note. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EAn independent assessment by finance advisory firm KordaMentha has described the value of the concessions made to Skycity in exchange for the construction and operation of the convention centre as reasonable for both parties. Again, the 230 new pokie machines is exactly the same number granted to Skycity under the previous Government in 2001 for the development of the existing and much smaller convention centre. Overall, the number of pokie machines in New Zealand is falling by around 500 a year. This deal slows that reduction by less than 6 months. It is by no means clear at all that a marginal increase in the number of machines in one casino would increase harm overall, especially when the total number of machines across Auckland and New Zealand continues to decline. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EWe on this side welcome this bill being regarded as requiring a conscience vote. It will allow any remaining MPs in the Opposition who actually say that they see themselves as being in favour of jobs and growth to demonstrate that. By voting in favour of this bill, they can really say that they support jobs and growth. We look forward to their support. This measure is just one measure in a number that this Government has been proud to support as we focus on jobs and growth for New Zealand families. Our changes to the Resource Management Act, the Crown Minerals Act, legislation for ultra-fast broadband, the Employment Relations Act, the economic exclusive zone legislation, and so on have all been about creating jobs and growth in this country, while minimising social impacts. This Government lines up behind minimising the social harm of unemployment. New Zealand needs an international-size convention centre in our biggest city to be internationally competitive. A $402 million international convention centre in Auckland will do that, and will be a major asset for New Zealand for years to come. I commend this legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022dffd6d20b03c44bd90b2986ba28e6e6f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dffd6d20b03c44bd90b2986ba28e6e6f\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This casino bill, the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill, is a disgraceful piece of legislation built off a dodgy deal done without transparency or accountability and off the back of morally bankrupt exploitation of problem gamblers. The epitaph of this Government is cronyism: make the deals with the vested interests, make the deals with its mates, and ignore New Zealanders\u2019 interests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESkycity is a business. It saw a chance to make some money. It saw a chance to avoid some costs. It saw a chance, and it went for it. Whatever I might think of that, it is a business, looking out for itself. Well, I have got a message for John Key: New Zealand is not some corporation that he gets to play around with; New Zealand is a democracy with a good reputation for transparency and accountability. New Zealanders expect honesty and accountability from their leaders, and John Key has failed to deliver honesty and accountability on this. New Zealand is not a corporation to be John Key\u2019s plaything. He needs to respect New Zealanders\u2019 wishes that we have an accountable Government, we have a transparent Government, and we have a Government that is upfront with its citizens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis Government owes its citizens much more than dodgy, tawdry deals like this one. It owes its citizens some respect\u2014respect for their interests and respect for the basic rules of democracy. That has been absent from John Key\u2019s dodgy deal from day one. Let us start at the beginning, with the whole process of awarding this contract. The Deputy Auditor-General has done her report on this. John Key likes to tell the House that he has been totally vindicated by that report. He says that the Government was totally vindicated by the report of the Deputy Auditor-General\u2014except for the fact that the Deputy Auditor-General says that the process for awarding this contract to Skycity was flawed, it was not transparent, and it was not even-handed. They are the words of the Deputy Auditor-General, and John Key tries to claim that this process was OK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI can tell members of the House when this process went dodgy, when this process became non-transparent. It was when John Key wrote on the top of a briefing note on 24 August 2009: \u201CClose off the Skycity angle.\u201D That is what John Key wrote on that briefing paper, and from that moment on all the officials working on this process directed their energy towards Skycity, and no one else. The other bidders in this process were not given a fair go. The Deputy Auditor-General actually said that. She said: \u201Cwe regard it\u201D\u2014the failure to clearly communicate the Government\u2019s position\u2014\u201Cas symptomatic of the lack of attention to procedural risks,\u201D and that gives rise to concerns about \u201Cthe fairness and credibility of the process.\u201D That is the Auditor-General saying that the other people who were bidding to build this convention centre were not treated the same as Skycity. Skycity was taken out of this and taken away by the Government and dealt with differently. That is not the kind of fairness or transparency that New Zealanders expect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister is donkey deep in this dodgy deal. In May 2009 he met with the chief executive of Skycity. In July 2009 his chief of staff met with Skycity officials. In August 2009 he told officials to close off the Skycity angle. In 15 October 2009 Bill English gets alongside the Skycity officials. Then by November 2009 it is another one of John Key\u2019s mandates\u2014he is there with the Skycity chief executive, finishing off this deal. No other bidder got those opportunities. They were afforded only to Skycity. This is a dodgy deal. This is cronyism. This is looking after vested interests. This is looking after the Government\u2019s mates, not New Zealanders\u2019 mates. This dodgy deal was wrong from day one, and the Deputy Auditor-General has been clear about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThen the Government comes to this House with a bill that binds future Governments into concessions to these people: 230 extra pokie machines, 40 extra gaming tables, cashless gaming machines, and ticket-in, ticket-out machines\u2014a whole load of concessions. That is a whole load of concessions, which include a 35-year extension to the licence. Those concessions will increase gambling harm, and it is outrageous for Steven Joyce to stand up in this House today and say \u201CWe can\u2019t say whether there will be an increase in gambling harm.\u201D What the regulatory impact statement says is that we cannot say just how much it will be, but there will be an increase in gambling harm\u2014there will be. What they estimate in this report is that there will be around an extra 8,000 potential problem gamblers because of this change\u2014because of this change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to note that the Government had the option of amending the Gambling Act, rather than bringing in this new piece of legislation. The reason that the Government has not gone ahead with amending the Gambling Act rather than introducing this new piece of legislation is in the regulatory impact statement. What it says is that the Gambling Act\u2019s purpose is minimising the harm caused by gambling. So the Government cannot amend that Act, because this bill would be against that purpose. That is why it cannot amend the Gambling Act. It is because the Gambling Act says that we should minimise gambling harm. This bill increases gambling harm, and that is why the Government has to do a stand-alone piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIf nothing else, what that must tell New Zealanders is that this bill is about increasing gambling harm. The trade-offs that this Government thinks it is making between building a convention centre and an extra 8,000 problem gamblers have been accurately described today by Campbell Roberts from the Salvation Army. He has made absolutely clear that the harm minimisation measures in this bill are a joke. They are neither robust nor effective, and they do not represent any significant improvement on the current ineffective practices of the Skycity Casino. This Government is making gambling harm worse. It has introduced this bill today, which will get an extra 8,000 potential problem gamblers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut, at the same time, Skycity is laughing all the way to the bank because it can extract the extra profits and it will not have to go through the process that other people in the gambling sector will. By having its licence extended, it means that it does not have to undergo the statutory renewal processes that it would have undergone in 2021 or in 2036. In doing so, not only does that save it money; it means that the public do not get to know what is going on in terms of what Skycity does. It removes the opportunity for local authority input. It removes the opportunity for public input into the licence renewal proposals for Skycity. On that point alone the Government members should hang their heads in shame\u2014that they are prepared to extend the licence of Skycity so that the public and the local authority in Auckland will not be able to have a say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis is shameful on all counts\u2014the dodgy process and this bill that comes to the House that extends the licence that creates extra problem gamblers. We cannot even use the Gambling Act, because the Gambling Act says \u201Creduced harm\u201D, which is why Labour brought it in in 2003. That is why the Government is avoiding it today, because it knows that this legislation will increase gambling harm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EToday there is meant to be a personal vote or a conscience vote. There is no personal vote or conscience vote coming from the National side, and I can tell you why we know that. We know that there are members on that side of the House who understand the impact of gambling harm, who understand how it destroys families, who understand the damage that it does right across communities. In the past they have stood up against problem gambling, but today they do not. They are not exercising their consciences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EJohn Key has systematically and deliberately undermined basic New Zealand values through this dodgy deal. It is shameful legislation, and the National members who are today being prevented from exercising their consciences know this. This bill is morally wrong. This bill is morally bankrupt. The Labour Party is disgusted by this bill. Labour will not be bullied out of making changes to gambling law because of what this Government says. If Labour sees gambling harm when it is in Government, it will legislate to deal with gambling harm. John Key cannot get away with this dodgy, tawdry deal. It is morally bankrupt and the Labour Party is utterly opposed to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022844b5e183e5f4c178113d7d6e3e8db96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022844b5e183e5f4c178113d7d6e3e8db96\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Well, the previous Labour Government has a significant convention centre under its belt. Helen Clark speaks from the past. She said that the Auckland Skycity has \u201Cpumped $140 million into its new Convention Centre, and Auckland City has rebranded and upgraded its conventions facilities.\u201D She says it is a good thing. Mark Burton, who was the Minister of Internal Affairs at the time, said: \u201CThe potential gains from this are widespread\u2014not only for Skycity but for the Auckland city and region, the tourism industry, and the whole of New Zealand.\u201D Oh, my\u2014have they not changed their tune! The Labour Mayor of Auckland, Len Brown, agrees, too. He welcomed the \u201Csignificant opportunities that a national convention centre will bring to Auckland both in terms of jobs and wider economic growth.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E We understand very, very clearly that there are issues around gambling harm and harm minimisation. That is why we have placed upon Skycity a very, very strong obligation and requirement to introduce further, substantial harm reduction measures. In fact, Associate Professor Paul Delfabbro from the University of Adelaide, who works in the psychology department, recently described Skycity\u2019s Host Responsibility programme as one of the most rigorous in the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIt is important to understand that these things are also on the Government\u2019s mind, and, because of that, there are very stringent obligations placed upon Skycity in order to minimise gambling harm. Under the agreement Skycity will have to introduce a predictive modelling tool that analyses data to identify players at risk of problem gambling, as well as a voluntary pre-commitment system where players can elect to restrict the amount of time they play or the amount they spend. Skycity will also have to introduce player identification requirements when amounts over $500 are being put on to, or cashed from, ticket-in, ticket-out machines in non-restricted areas. As well, it is doubling the number of Host Responsibility specialists to deliver 24-hour, 7-day-a-week coverage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EArguably, Skycity will be better equipped to deal with problem gamblers because of this bill than it would be without it, because it will put into place industry best practice. I am not a gambler, but this place is full of gamblers. Right now there are bets going on in this House on who is going to be the winning horse wearing the red tunic, and games of Russian roulette are being played in the Labour caucus. But I want to say that this bill is going to be good for New Zealand, and at the same time we are going to minimise the impacts and the harm upon people of gambling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b57a50bca1994b0c882899c01a0c54d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b57a50bca1994b0c882899c01a0c54d1\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the next member, I advise the House that this is a split Labour call, and I will ring the bell with 1 minute remaining. I call the Hon Clayton Cosgrove.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00229eef514c5bea4387bf3d9ef8b5b43834\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229eef514c5bea4387bf3d9ef8b5b43834\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Before I make my substantive comments in this speech, I want to make a personal comment. The personal comment is that, in respect of Skycity, I attended a corporate box function\u2014as is well known. I want to say to the House in all seriousness that it may come as a shock to some people here, but, like other members, I have attended and received hospitality from Federated Farmers occasionally. I have received and attended hospitality from Sky TV occasionally, and, I have to say in seriousness, I have been to the annual function of Saunders Unsworth at some times over the years, although I suspect that the invitation may not come this year. I say in all seriousness that one engages with groups and entities as a member of this House, and one makes judgments as to the rights and sometimes the wrongs of those engagements with entities and groups. I take responsibility for both the right judgments and\u2014hopefully, not that often\u2014the wrong judgments. I take responsibility. But I say this: my vote is not for sale. My vote cannot be bought. My vote will never be bought. I say with respect to the House that my comments, I think, are appropriate before I get to the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe problem with this bill is the following. You can understand a private sector organisation like Skycity wanting to get the best deal it can under any legal circumstances. That is how businesses proceed in terms of maximising their profitability. The problem, though, is that even though John Key is a product of that same private sector where things are done differently and there are different processes\u2014because there are commercial arrangements and private sector moneys involved\u2014there is a big difference when you are dealing with public money, with legislation and regulation, and with taxpayers\u2019 money, and when you are charged as a Government and as a Prime Minister with working in the interests of all people. And though John Key in his private sector capacity may even in a legal sense have been able to expedite decisions without a lot of due process, in a legal sense even without due process, to get the deal done, get it done fast, and move it ahead, the difficulty when you are a Prime Minister and when you are charged in Government with guarding the public purse and the public well-being is that you must have transparency, you must have openness, and you must observe proper due process, especially in tender processes. You cannot express a preference for one group against another. You must leave key decisions to be delegated to officials to keep them out of the sticky fingers of politicians and avoid some of the challenges and allegations that Mr Grant Robertson has put to the Government. You must observe those public sector processes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe difficulty Mr Key has with this dodgy deal\u2014and from the taxpayers\u2019 point of view it is; you cannot blame the Skycity boys for having a crack and, forgive the pun, rolling the dice\u2014is that he has failed to guard the well-being of the taxpayers. He has been criticised by the Auditor-General for a lack of due process, even though in his own mind he keeps telling himself that he was totally vindicated\u2014though the Skycity report says otherwise. He has done this and done the deal, whether it be with the film industry at the cost of selling legislation, or whether it be this in a dodgy, non-transparent, and underhand way. He has done it simply for political motives and political motivation. The Government may cry jobs, and we are all in favour of jobs. It may cry that it wants to grow incomes for people, and we are all in favour of that. But you have got to do it openly and you have got to do it fairly. It cannot be a dodgy deal done at midnight with high-level Government ministerial intervention that has been deemed inappropriate. I will oppose this legislation for those reasons. Mr Key has to learn that he is a Prime Minister. He is not in the private sector. He is not dealing with his own dough or company dough; he is dealing with taxpayers\u2019 money and taxpayers\u2019 welfare. There is such a thing as the public interest, the taxpayer interest, and he is charged with guarding that. This legislation and his conduct fail those critical tests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022f98ca127557e4b14a0246c3a1876041f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f98ca127557e4b14a0246c3a1876041f\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I think there are some things that I too should put on the record. I think in 2009 I accepted a couple of glasses of wine from Skycity at one of its lower bars, in 2011 I went to a test match as part of the Rugby World Cup with Skycity, and earlier this year, in 2013, I accepted a cup of coffee and a muffin with one of its lobbyists when we were discussing this legislation, the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill. I am, however, reminded of the statement of the late California State Treasurer \u201CBig Daddy\u201D Unruh, and that is: \u201CIf you can\u2019t eat their food, drink their booze, \u2026\u201D\u2014there is another phrase that has to do with the relationship with women, which I will not read out\u2014\u201Cand then vote against them, you have no business being [in Parliament].\u201D That is the case. I just want to say that if people cannot have a proper policy discussion and at the end of that say \u201CNo, we disagree.\u201D\u2014as I have on a number of occasions with Skycity\u2014and tell people that you are against something, and then come here and vote against it, then we have not got a proper democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI am adamantly opposed to this legislation. My view is that gambling using any form of pokies was originally a mistake. I think that in allowing it, Peter Tapsell\u2014probably without any right of legislation, without any right and proper regulation, back when he was Minister of Internal Affairs in the early 1980s\u2014was wrong. I am still convinced that it is wrong. I voted the wrong way on the casino legislation when it was set up originally, and that is something that I am now ashamed of. It is my view that that casino should not have been set up, and my view that the harm that is caused to tens of thousands of families is something that this Parliament, and people of my generation in this Parliament, have to take responsibility for. What I will not do is support in any way legislation that will make it worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EPokies and gambling tables cause immense harm to families. People gamble much more, in some cases, than they can afford to. They lose their houses, they lose their families, and, in extreme cases, they lose their lives as a result of this evil. And for the Prime Minister to trade this loss of families, this loss of houses, and this loss of lives for a convention centre is, in my opinion, morally bankrupt, and the way that it has been done is, effectively, corrupt. The Prime Minister wrote on a piece of paper to finalise a deal with Skycity. He wrote on a piece of paper and breached everything that is ethical about having proper tenders and proper arrangements in making Government deals. The Prime Minister of New Zealand lowered the standards of our democracy, and the ethics and the integrity and the transparency that we expect in New Zealand, and this bill is a result of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EAnd I say to Jonathan Young, who was the National Party speaker who preceded me, shame on you. Jonathan, I know that you know better. I know that you know that people will die as a result of this bill. I know, Mr Young, that in your heart and in your conscience you do not support it, and I say shame on you for standing up to support this grubby bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022fca0acd6d72e46a1a0d8ede69f2a25b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fca0acd6d72e46a1a0d8ede69f2a25b3\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the honourable member Metiria Turei. T\u0113n\u0101 koe. Kei te p\u0113hea koe? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u002223d9635f38914182ac4b544fc8964daf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223d9635f38914182ac4b544fc8964daf\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Tino pai, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koe. \u201CBut gambling is not just the scourge of my communities. We all know that there are teachers, there are lawyers, and there are even politicians who gamble. So let us not say that this is a problem defined to one area, but across the country. It is also personal because I have had numerous constituents come into my electorate office in Onehunga in Maungakiekie, and I have seen the broken relationships. I have seen kids who have gone without the essentials, the broken families, and the broken relationships. It affects our communities right across this country.\u201D\u2014so said Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga last night in this House, and I agree with him. I agree with him 100 percent, and so do thousands of New Zealanders. So my plea to all of my parliamentary colleagues today is: \u201CDo not vote for this bill.\u201D\u2014the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EToday we have a rare opportunity to vote with our conscience on a bill that we all know grates so deeply, and it grates because it is wrong. It is wrong to sell the law to Skycity so that Skycity and no one else can make millions of dollars off the misery of problem gamblers, their families, their children, and their communities. It is wrong to use the authority of this House to excuse Skycity for 35 years from the Gambling Act, the Act that constrains the harm of gambling by stemming its growth. It is wrong to know that increasing gambling at Skycity will produce measurable, predictable harm to people who can least afford to be harmed but to choose to do so anyway. It is wrong to subvert the very foundation of our law\u2014the law that says that we are all equal before it\u2014to confer on Skycity a special privilege that the rest of us simply do not have. That is wrong, and there is no more simple way to put it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EPeople\u2019s lives have been destroyed by gambling and by Skycity. Every few months we hear another story about another business that has gone under, about people who have become sick, their lives destroyed, who have stolen from their employers, have harmed or abandoned their children, and have even harmed themselves because of that place. So please do not use this one vote you have today to make Skycity bigger, more rapacious, and more damaging than it is already. We all have the power today to stop that from happening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EI would add to that a concern about the nature of Skycity. Today, in fact just a few moments ago, I saw a press report on Skycity and a comment that it made, where it is in effect threatening MPs today, saying that if MPs choose to deny this legislation and vote it down, Skycity will take its money\u2014hundreds of millions of dollars, says Nigel Morrison\u2014and spend it overseas. So it is effectively attempting to threaten MPs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6ab9adbfb3b4951b12d4c15ee0704a0\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Good riddance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022498e2384f4ab468ba0f3bb1353d14099\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014good riddance, I agree, Mr Mallard\u2014by saying that it will remove its business and take it elsewhere, in a deliberate attempt to use its financial power to influence the votes of members of Parliament. We are seeing that happen right as we speak today with this release from Skycity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EJohn Key would have us all believe, despite the fact that these gambling extensions breach the law and despite the demonstrable harm that they bring, that these extensions are necessary for Auckland to get ahead on jobs. Well, of course, Auckland, as we know, is much, much better than that. Aucklanders are creative, innovative, and imaginative, and they are better than this dirty deal of expanding a casino and placing a casino monument\u2014plonked right in the middle of their beautiful city. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe other fallacy that John Key and Steven Joyce would have us believe is that jobs should come at any cost, but that is just simply not true. Not only are the numbers false\u2014there are not those numbers of jobs that they say, and if you look at any of the reports it is clear that they are overestimating the jobs\u2014but jobs do not come at any cost, and they most certainly must not come at the cost of 6,500 children who, Joyce\u2019s own officials warn, will be harmed by this bill. That is 6,500 children who the officials say will be at risk of not being fed and clothed properly as a result of this bill. This is not my information. I did not produce this information. This is information that is in the Government\u2019s own, albeit heavily edited, carefully redacted, and selectively released documents. It is information that it has produced and has known about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe jobs claim of Steven Joyce is untrue. One need only look at the reports to show that that is the case. Even the $90 million claim that is being made by Steven Joyce is untrue. The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment reports that its analysis shows that 72 percent of that money will go to Skycity through the hotel and through the convention centre. So very little of that $90 million is going anywhere near outside the Skycity boundaries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003ESteven Joyce and John Key say that because we cannot know for sure exactly how many people are to be harmed or how they will be harmed by the increased gambling that this bill brings, the risk to those people or the risk of that harm is somehow irrelevant. Joyce claimed yesterday that the regulatory impact statement said that putting a precise cost on the potential increase is difficult. Well, yes, it does say that, but it also goes on to say why it is difficult to put a precise cost on the harms. It says: \u201CReportedly, only a fraction of those who are affected by problem gambling seek help and the cost of the intervention services is in any case only a fraction of the cost (harms) associated with problem gambling (such as suicide; family violence; children inadequately clothed and fed, and other examples of deprivation and poor parenting; costs to the justice system, to businesses, and to community groups of gambling-related crime, lost productivity etc.).\u201D That is what it says in the regulatory impact statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EAll of those harms are identified as being real, and the risk of those harms being real. Yes, it is difficult to quantify the cost, but that does not mean that those harms do not exist. It does not mean those harms are irrelevant to this debate. In fact, it raises serious questions when this bill is proceeding knowing that those harms are a risk and when Mr Joyce today confirmed that he has made no attempt to find the real evidence behind that. No, he did not seek any advice about whether more children would be left in cars in the Skycity car-park, even though we know that that happens. No, he has not assessed the risk of increased fraud for those businesses that we know will suffer from theft and fraud\u2014usually by people who own or are senior in those businesses\u2014as a result of problem gambling. No, he has not sought any advice on the risk to charities\u2014charities that not only receive funding from the members of the public but also receive funding from Government\u2014of that money being stolen, when we know that more than 50 percent of the money that is stolen from charities is stolen to fuel problem gambling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThese are the facts that we know. This is the information that we have available to us, but John Key and Steven Joyce have deliberately refused to investigate that information because if they do not know, then they can pretend it does not exist. Yet that harm will be experienced by thousands of New Zealanders and, more important, by thousands of their children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EI am going to end by quoting a member of this House who fought against the 1997 Casino Control (Moratorium) Amendment Bill 15 years ago. He said: \u201CWe are talking about a problem that we all own. We cannot just sweep the problem under the carpet because we believe in free enterprise. We cannot just sweep the problem under the carpet because we think it is an individual\u2019s right to throw the dice, to play blackjack ... We have a problem in this country, and it is the addiction of gambling. It creates havoc amongst families, be they M\u0101ori, be they P\u0101keh\u0101. It creates a problem, and we need a Parliament with the strength and courage to face up to that problem, and face up to it we will.\u201D, and \u201CWe have a problem, and those people who vote in favour of this Bill are on the side of the angels, and those who vote against this legislation are on the side of evil.\u201D Thank you, Mr Tau Henare, for those wise words.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8d15db3b12f4d3190aebe4249e349ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8d15db3b12f4d3190aebe4249e349ec\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa lava. I want to acknowledge the Minister for Economic Development, Steven Joyce, for bringing the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill to the House. We have heard the debate. The bill is a trade-off\u2014it is a trade-off in terms of the positives that we get from jobs, from tourism, from opportunities, and from the economic benefits that this bill will produce. We also understand, and we know, that gambling is a legally permitted activity in this country and that there are some spin-off effects that are detrimental to some individuals and some families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EBut let me talk about the benefits. It is a major asset for New Zealand because it will generate huge benefits\u2014a projected $90 million annual injection into this economy, and that is an estimated 1,000 jobs. [Interruption] I challenge those opposite to come to Skycity and say to the bouncers down at Skycity\u2014those who have jobs and are supporting families and are supporting their wives, families, spouses\u2014that they want to talk to them about their jobs and about taking the jobs away from those people who have them. I challenge those members opposite to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe 230 new pokie machines is only the same amount that was produced under the Labour Government. I acknowledge the Hon Trevor Mallard, who has actually said in this House that he did make a mistake under that legislation. I challenge others to make the same statement, because they are, in effect, voting against something that they voted for 10 years ago. But let us talk about the facts, because members opposite do not want to talk about the facts. Under Labour there were 6,700 extra pokie machines in 9 years\u20146,700\u2014and under National we have decreased the number of machines in circulation around this country by 2,300. So we have decreased the ability for harm to be caused by decreasing accessibility to those machines for those who are being harmed by these machines by decreasing the number of machines across this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EWhat are the measures to deter problem gambling at Skycity? Well, we know that it is introducing a predictive modelling tool, which analyses data to identify those gamblers with problems. It is also introducing player identification requirements\u2014[Interruption] members know that\u2014and some of those will be visual identification requirements. But it is a balancing act, as I said at the outset. Overall, the net benefits are positive for our economy, positive for our country, and positive for those who are getting jobs under this legislation. That is why I will support it in its first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022 data-id=\u00225d37591bbd194e7ead67f2d22e74364e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d37591bbd194e7ead67f2d22e74364e\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak to this first reading of the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill. New Zealand First opposes this bill and everything it stands for unequivocally and in its entirety. We oppose this bill because it epitomises everything that is wrong about core governance of a nation from an economic standpoint, from an ideological standpoint, from a social good standpoint, and, perhaps as important as\u2014if not, indeed, more so than\u2014any of those, from the standpoint of the voluntary adherence by the Government of the day to the otherwise unenforceable, yet constitutionally fundamental and indispensable, convention by which those who hold executive office choose to maintain their subservience to the laws of the land, choose to maintain the ethos by which laws are made and upheld in accordance with the principles of democracy and the best interests of the common good, and choose to conduct themselves and to execute their responsibilities of their office in a manner uncorrupted by the temptations of material gain or regulatory and jurisdictional advantage\u2014or not. They choose to conduct themselves and to carry out the business of Government in this manner, or they choose to not do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWhen Governments choose to depart from these fundamental conventions, it is the beginning of an insidious process of thought and the beginning of a very dangerous road that leads towards corruption and at the end of which lie the remains of societies that have traded democracy for the usurpation of power. It is a road that begins in the corruption of thought and ends in dictatorship. Fiji lies at the end of that road. So do Zimbabwe, Pakistan, and Egypt\u2014only this month, Egypt. Half the nations of South America and West Africa have gone down that road, and none of them have ever truly come back. Is that what we want for New Zealand? Is that what we are going to allow? Is that what we are going to sanction for New Zealand\u2014for the future of New Zealand\u2014here in this House by passing this cynical and insidious piece of legislation? I say that in all seriousness. I ask all members, but particularly the members opposite on the Government benches, the members of the National Party, whether that is what they really want, and whether that is what they really want to allow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI say again that this bill is the beginning of a process that culminates in the ending of democracy, and I suspect that those who are responsible for initiating it are not even aware that it is happening. I make this charge because this bill sends a message, and I make it because of what this bill is and what it does and what it represents, and because of the message this bill sends. What it says is that the law is for sale. The law here in New Zealand and the process of making law is for sale. Make us an offer, and we will change the law to suit! The Government can spin this any way it likes. It can dress it up any way it likes. It can plaster that pig with as much lipstick as it can stagger under the weight of, but the reality remains the same, and that reality is that our laws are for sale. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWe have laws limiting the activity of gambling. We have laws that limit gambling and place limits on how much gambling can go on and where and when and by whom. We have them because gambling can, and does, cause harm, and as a society we have decided that we need to be able to limit that harm. We believe as a society that it is in the best interests of the common good to see to it that the harm that can be caused by gambling is minimised. Yet, through this bill, that impetus towards harm minimisation is being abandoned. Through this bill, with this bill, what we are doing\u2014what New Zealand is doing, what the Government is doing, and what the Parliament is allowing to happen\u2014is that we are deciding, arbitrarily, that the minimisation of gambling and the minimisation of the harm and the potential harm caused by gambling is not important any more. It is not as important as some other considerations\u2014economic considerations, monetary considerations. Jobs are important. On that, I think we are all agreed. Industry and building and construction are important. No one is denying that. We need jobs for people. We need building and construction and major projects in the economy. That goes without saying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EBut within that reality is another reality, and it is this. Even when we as a nation acknowledge that we need jobs and industry and construction, we still have this other reality, which is that we have problems with gambling in this country. We have problem gamblers and we have harm being done, and that is why we have laws pertaining to gambling. They are there in an attempt to minimise that harm, but through this bill, the Government is denying that reality. The Government is attempting to justify the changes in this law by referring to the jobs that will be created by the construction of the new convention centre and by referring to the revenue that it anticipates will be generated in the economy by having the convention centre operating and from the overseas visitors whom it will attract. And it is true that those things will happen. Building a convention centre will create jobs and it will inject new revenue into our economy, but that is not good enough. There are other ways in which jobs can be created and there are other ways in which Crown revenues can be enlarged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EDoes Auckland actually need another convention centre? Have we as a nation actually asked that question? Auckland already has the Aotea Centre, of course. Whether having another one as a crucial element in the Queen City remaining competitive with the other 70-odd convention venues in our region is a matter for some contention. But if we do, in fact, need another one, someone has to build it and someone has to pay for it. So the question then is whether we should, as a nation and a Parliament, be changing the law in order to allow Skycity to build one for us free of charge in exchange for their being allowed to expand their casino by an additional 230 pokie machines and another 35 gaming tables. Does Auckland or New Zealand need another 230 pokie machines? I would contend that they do not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EIt is true that some people use pokies responsibly and gain some enjoyment from doing that. But it is equally true that these machines are designed to make a profit, and that is what they do. Eight-five cents of every dollar that goes into a pokie, or thereabouts, stays in that machine. They are programmed and built that way. There is no getting away from that, but people play them anyway, because they are fun and exciting, and they come with the promise of reward, and that promise can be, and often is, addictive. As such, these machines have become a scourge in our pubs and suburbs and communities. We have problem gamblers in this country\u2014far more of them than many people would care to admit. It is not a problem that is restricted to the poorer parts of New Zealand or to brown people or to the less well educated. Gambling addiction cuts across all socio-economic levels and all strata of society, all ethnic groups, and all levels of income. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI have had firsthand experience of being in a relationship with someone who was unable to resist the temptation of putting another coin in the machine. I watched as my best efforts to assist failed and a person who held a good job in a position of responsibility succumbed to her affliction just as progressively and just as destructively as the damage and decline experienced by an untreated alcoholic or drug addict. Gambling addiction destroys lives. It ruins livelihoods, it breaks up families, and it breaks up relationships. It is a horrible thing to watch and an even more horrible thing to experience. We do not need 230 more pokie machines. We need 230 fewer, and that would be a good start. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWe most certainly do not need to tear down laws that have been put in place to protect the vulnerable because we have succumbed to the temptation of a promise of $400 million in the form of a convention centre. This windfall win, as it is being perceived and promoted, is no less a mirage than any other win on the pokies. Has this Government, I ask, been seduced by the promise of the bright lights and the flashing colours and the big dollars to be had from this exciting casino deal? I ask because there is a common thread. There is a common set of indicators in people with addictions. Drugs, alcohol, gambling\u2014they are all the same. One of the most common early signs is denial accompanied by justification and minimisation. Smokers begin that way and so do drinkers. They say: \u201CJust one more puff. Just one more beer. Go on, have a chaser with that. One more won\u2019t kill you. Everyone else is doing it. The sun is always over the yardarm somewhere in the world. Just one more twenty. Ten more coins and that\u2019s it. I\u2019m not feeding the pokies anymore this week\u2014well, tonight.\u201D It starts that way and then every subsequent indulgence is justified by the one before it, and then there is full-blown addiction and a cycle of self-destruction that is inescapable. There is minimisation, justification, and denial. The psychology of addiction is very similar to the psychology of the corruption of thought. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EIs there a parallel here? I ask the House and the members opposite to ask themselves whether that is, indeed, what they are doing and whether this is what is happening with their thinking: \u201CJust one little law change, that\u2019s all. Just a few more pokies. Think of the jobs. Think of the investment. Just one little law change. Go on, it won\u2019t hurt.\u201D I ask them to contemplate that, because do you know what? Once they have done it, the next time it will be so much easier\u2014so much easier to do and so much easier to justify. They might say: \u201CWhat law shall we sell next, I wonder?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister obviously understands the maxim that one should never gamble with more than one can afford to lose, and that is why he is whipping his caucus and their individual consciences into line. But I ask those members whether they have the intestinal fortitude to do the right thing here today, rather than the thing they have been told to do. If they vote to sell this law today, how will they justify not wanting to sell another one tomorrow? We are at a fork in the road. One way is the right way. At the end of the other is Zimbabwe. We all have a choice as to which road we will take and which way we will vote. We must live with the consequences of that choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI will be voting against this bill, as will my New Zealand First colleagues. I would urge the members opposite to choose very carefully whether they support this law or not and to vote accordingly while they still have that free choice in a free society. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u00220b2489fb5d4048a7b2ca90905bbf4e2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b2489fb5d4048a7b2ca90905bbf4e2f\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Sat sri akaal, Mr Assistant Speaker. Thank you very much for the opportunity to participate in the first reading of the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill. I congratulate this John Key - led Government on achieving an agreement that is way better than what our Opposition predecessors tried to achieve in 2001. I am sure others have shared this to some degree earlier today. However, just to re-emphasise, this agreement that the National-led Government has formed with Skycity is better for the economy, better for Auckland, and better for New Zealand. With my clear conscience, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022adf1fef21a4740eda85675a3aa95869b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adf1fef21a4740eda85675a3aa95869b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand the next call is a split call. The Hon David Parker\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002230debb58603d44f98535e1c658adccf3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230debb58603d44f98535e1c658adccf3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I would appreciate a bell at 1 minute, if I could? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e89d80f04234d558e8e6d25bee9226a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022322c0fabcd1a46dfba0c766879cf0252\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. This is the result of a backroom deal by our Prime Minister, done with vested interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a038e540af92478d87183a7de52d1bdc\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor\u003C/span\u003E: It was a dirty one too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227acb4ec0a315430cb14a4c93f71339db\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: A dirty one, someone says here. The Deputy Auditor-General inquired into the probity of this arrangement. I want to quote a couple of paragraphs from the Deputy Auditor-General\u2019s report because we heard continual misrepresentation, including by National members today, that it was all in order. The Deputy Auditor-General concluded in the report that was done by one of her deputies that \u201CThe result was that one submitter was treated differently from others during the evaluation process.\u201D Only one bidder for this project knew that regulatory holidays were available. Only one bidder knew that the Government was willing to change the laws so that they could get a break. No other bidder knew that, and that is why the Deputy Auditor-General concluded that this process was wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThat fundamental error was never fixed, and we will never know whether, had the prospect of regulatory holidays been conveyed to other bidders, we would have had others. There are lots of rumours around that Vector would have been interested in bidding. It faced regulatory risk around the revenues that it gets from its lines businesses. Vector may have been willing to subsidise a convention centre if it had certainty as to its revenue flows and if it had a regulatory change that took away its risks in the way this regulatory change being done for Skycity does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere is another really shady thing going in here. There is a pretence by National that it was not warned. We know from the Deputy Auditor-General\u2019s report\u2014and again I am reading from it\u2014that \u201CThe Treasury \u2026 noted that an important part of the standard PPP process was a market tender, which provided assurance that the taxpayer was receiving value for money. \u2026 Overall, the Treasury comments suggested that officials should think about other, more conventional, procurement approaches.\u201D The Treasury comments were referred to in an email of 12 November 2009 that went to the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet from the Ministry of Economic Development. Treasury comments went to the Ministry of Economic Development, then from the Ministry of Economic Development to the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, and then the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, in addition, wrote a briefing note to the Prime Minister. None of those documents has been disclosed. Are we such a corrupt country that we cannot see what warnings were given to the Government by the Civil Service? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI raised this very issue with Steven Joyce when he was at the Finance and Expenditure Committee on estimates for the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment the other day. He said that they would be released in due course when the other documents were released. I checked today. They still have not been disclosed, because this seedy, underhand, irresponsible, disreputable deal is wrong and these notes from the Government departments to the Government told it that it was wrong. So, in addition to all of the problems with this casino deal\u2014it is a casino deal; it is not a convention centre deal\u2014that results in a convention centre being built on the back of gambling harm, the Government knew it was wrong for reasons other than gambling harm. New Zealand\u2019s reputation as being a transparent country free of corruption is tarnished by this deal, and that tarnish cannot be undone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI want to say a couple of other things. No Parliament can curb the sovereignty of a future Parliament. That means that future measures to remedy gambling harm are always within the jurisdiction of a future Parliament. We in the Labour Party say that we reserve the right to legislate for gambling harm in the future. That does not mean to say that that will be without cost to taxpayers. This deal with the Government effectively promises compensation to Skycity in respect of some future steps by a Government, and not all of that could be avoided by a future Government, despite the fact that future Governments might want to go the whole hog and reverse everything. That would come at a cost. But make no mistake: future Governments have a right to regulate for gambling harm. This bill reflects poorly upon the Government and I for one will be opposing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022523e7023947f46d3b5ebaea2eb5ed55b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022523e7023947f46d3b5ebaea2eb5ed55b\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise and speak as a resident of Auckland, but also a resident of central Auckland, the place where this eventual convention centre will reside. I rise also as someone who lives in the area where Skycity is the most significant employer in terms of numbers. It was absolutely irresponsible of that member opposite to claim that not building a convention centre under the auspices of Skycity would have led people who are currently employed to losing their jobs. That was an outrageous statement to make. It is also outrageous to try to claim that this was the only option on the table. Let us not be naive. Labour has been opposed to this casino deal from the beginning. We have never been opposed to a convention centre being built. There is a very important, distinct difference there. Of course this side of the House wants to see decent economic development. Of course this side of the House wants to see Auckland thrive, tourism grow, and people being offered opportunities that a potential convention centre could bring. Did we want that to happen off the back of harm and misery? No, and that is why we oppose this deal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAlso, we cannot be naive and pretend that this was the only offer on the table. That seems to have been somewhat lost in this debate. In fact, before the Prime Minister had a chat with Skycity and realised that it was interested to the point that it might not cost him a pretty penny, there were several other deals on the table, including one from Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua and another from The Edge. Auckland Council put forward a proposition that we had the Aotea Centre, which could be better utilised, and we could expand the footprint of that centre. We could transport the arts side of the Aotea Centre to the St James\u2014a beautiful jewel in the Auckland crown that is in desperate need of restoration. It is something that the people of Auckland have been crying out to happen for years, and, while it sits and crumbles in the centre of Auckland, we had a proposition on the table that could have seen a beautiful trade-off that would have allowed a convention centre and for that jewel in the crown of Auckland to be restored. Instead, the Government bought a crown of coin machines for Auckland. That was the trade-off that that Government decided to make. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI have been interested in the debate that we have recently seen around inequality. According to the OECD measures, the Gini coefficient, New Zealand is the most unequal it has ever been. One of the points that the IMF makes around inequality is that countries that live with deep inequality tend to have Governments that start making decisions on behalf of those who are most powerful rather than on behalf of the good of the country and the economy, and that is exactly what this deal represents. It was made on behalf of those who are powerful rather than those who cannot vote\u2014in particular, kids. The Expert Advisory Group on Solutions to Child Poverty points out that problem gambling is correlated with child poverty, and, in fact, it exacerbates it. That is a point that has been made time and time again by the Problem Gambling Foundation and any expert who works on child poverty issues. If you want to support those who are most vulnerable, you do everything you can to remove problem gambling and, in particular, pokie machines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAny Government that argues that it is happy to simply minimise harm, I think, is making a ridiculous argument. It is like saying that you would rather raise the speed limit, knowing people would die, and then simply minimise the harm by putting more gurneys in a hospital. It is a flawed argument, and it is a point that is right to have been made before now. Any Government that argues it would rather make that trade-off is trying to put power before people. This comes back to my main point. This deal demonstrates, I believe, the stark difference between National and Labour. We both want jobs\u2014yes. We both want economic development\u2014yes. But Labour would have conducted an open and transparent process that would ensure a convention centre that was a place of pride, not harm, and was about people, not pokies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a6cf565c349f495ab8f5b5a891efd4b8\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022735c73ff15ef45ffb8abed239712d188\u0022\u003EPsychoactive Substances Bill\u2014Procedure\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002240a3f33c4d5f45318132eed75a20b048\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240a3f33c4d5f45318132eed75a20b048\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Pursuant to the notice given by the Leader of the House at the Business Committee, I seek leave for Government order of the day No. 2, the Psychoactive Substances Bill, to be taken under urgency in order to ensure that it is passed before the 2-week adjournment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u002201c0f4f75a2c4240b10fb891c5218d90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201c0f4f75a2c4240b10fb891c5218d90\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I apologise; I was on a phone call, so I missed the beginning. Can I ask the shadow Leader of the House to repeat the beginning of his point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00229e59e4c0a5864da397436059d4e8780c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e59e4c0a5864da397436059d4e8780c\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I think what I said at the beginning was that pursuant to the notice given at the Business Committee by the Leader of the House, I seek leave of the House for urgency to be accorded to Government order of the day No. 2, the Psychoactive Substances Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f60c522c71ba465fa65122a7d2e5579b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002252f37337212d4c25a3aeb7c026313667\u0022\u003ENew Zealand International Convention Centre Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223d19227b68eb4a42950bbf86fa5ea96f\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000318\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u002232448bf87e6648e099162314d9d70607\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232448bf87e6648e099162314d9d70607\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E Here is what Auckland Tourism, Events and Economic Development Chief Executive Mr Brett O\u2019Riley has to say regarding the convention centre: \u201CWe are delighted with the opportunities this will bring to the region. It will allow Auckland to compete strongly against other international cities and secure major conventions that we would otherwise miss out on.\u201D Also, Business New Zealand Chief Executive Phil O\u2019Reilly said: \u201CNew Zealand, as one of the most remote tourism destinations on earth, needs facilities and attractions of world standard.\u201D So this is a good deal for New Zealand. It will create jobs, boost tourism, and bring significant benefits both to Auckland and to the New Zealand economy. I commend the bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022d710191f0a0b4c7aa318c2b9faa005de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d710191f0a0b4c7aa318c2b9faa005de\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that the next call is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022d67da1681bc342a8800b07376ed00e58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d67da1681bc342a8800b07376ed00e58\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill, the Government bill here. I want to appeal to the House to put politics aside and do the right thing for the community. The people of M\u0101ngere strongly oppose the bill for the following reason: the harm of gambling is real.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285b4b6155ec947b9b71e9de87b5bc850\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor\u003C/span\u003E: In Manukau East?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f97e743eb404a63aec955bd285a1e1d\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. I dare say my colleague there is absolutely right. Throughout Manukau, the feeling is the same. Throughout the Manukau region, the feeling is that the harm is real. Any member in this House who believes that it is not real is either blind or just ignorant of the reality out there in our community. All they need to do is talk to the Salvation Army. All they need to do is talk with the communities on the ground that are having to deal with the harm. People in this House need to know that the sole reason for the existence of casinos and pokie machines is to exploit and prey on the vulnerable. They make money, but not for the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ELet me just read out part of the regulatory impact statement given to the Government: \u201CThe key concern \u2026 is the potential impact this may have in increasing the incidence of problem gambling and its associated harm for New Zealand society. \u2026 Research shows there is a clear link between the availability of gaming machines and opportunities to gamble and the incidence of problem gambling.\u201D The region of Manukau has always known this. In 2003 we carried out research into the social harm on the people of Manukau, and the research revealed that $91 million was what it cost that region each year in terms of the social effects of gambling. It also said that the number of people affected by problem gambling is virtually unknown, although it is about 15 to 20 percent of the population. By and large, it is a hidden problem. But Australian research found that the net gain in jobs and economic activity from gambling is small, as the money involved is simply being diverted from spending in other areas. Again, the Australian research showed that the national cost of problem gambling is greater than the taxes raised by the Government from gambling activities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EAs my colleague Trevor Mallard said earlier, it does impact on family relationships. It does impact on people losing their homes. It has impact on people\u2014some commit suicide because they have lost virtually everything. It is addictive. Despite what we say, that there are avenues to help problem gamblers, the reality is true that those avenues are just not helping our communities. It is wrong for this Government and for any future Government to think that by increasing casinos we can provide benefits to the community. It has been argued that jobs are created\u2014certainly. But the reality is that these are low-value, low-paid jobs, and that is not the kind of New Zealand the community wants. The community deserves quality jobs. The community deserves a living wage. That is what the public have been arguing for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EAgain, I would appeal, particularly to the Government members, to put politics aside and do the right thing. The way is open for you to conduct a conscience vote, and I would ask members, particularly those who live in the Manukau region\u2014Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga, Alfred Ngaro, and Claudette Hauiti\u2014to do the right thing for the community and vote against this bill. I would ask them to use their conscience. I know that Jami-Lee Ross does not have a conscience, and I know that Mr Bakshi will not have a conscience. They are going to vote in support of this bill, despite the harm that happens in our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EBut the most important thing\u2014and members of the House will be fully aware of this\u2014is that this a bad, stinky deal, hatched and consummated on the dinner tables at Skycity. Like my other colleagues have said, this is a deal that undermines the credibility of this country of ours. In passing this bill, what this Government does is it ushers in a new, dark era of dirty politics with its mates. I will be voting against this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022 data-id=\u00224e89bb112e49402f985902dfbd2e1ff1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e89bb112e49402f985902dfbd2e1ff1\u0022\u003EDENISE ROCHE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I rise to take the second call for the Greens on the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill. It is no secret that we have been opposed to this bill since we first uncovered the dodgy dealings that have resulted in the legislation we are discussing today. The Greens have a proud history of opposing mining on schedule 4 land, opposing deep-sea oil drilling, and opposing fracking, and we oppose this deal because it favours another nasty extraction industry, one that hoovers money out of the pockets of those who can least afford it, and, just like the worst frackers, it leaves a hell of a mess. We all live with the consequences and we all bear the costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EAnd what are the costs? Well, we do not know. We have some clues. The regulatory impact statement says that there will be increased problem gambling from the 230 extra pokies and more tables. There will be increased risk of suicide and domestic violence. There will be more kids going hungry and kids being neglected and left in cars. We know that there will be increased crime as a result of increased gambling opportunities. We know that there will be more thefts of businesses and charities to fuel gambling. We know that there will be more gangs, more P dealers, and even some international criminals laundering their money at the extended casino.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EIn terms of cost-benefit analysis, that really has not been done. The Government keeps stating that there will be jobs and there will be benefits to the economy, but, actually, the losses and the social harms that we will all pay for have not been factored into the equation. I ask the Government to do the maths. I query the overstated economic benefits. The research undertaken by the Australian Productivity Commission shows that casinos suck the money out of the surrounding areas and take it away from restaurants, from theatres, from shops, and the surrounding area. It will basically concentrate all that money at the Skycity venue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EYesterday I went to a talk by Robert Wade, from the London School of Economics and Political Science. He was talking about inequality. He showed a graph representing the ever-widening income gap between the very rich and the very poor, and showed how most of the wealth in Anglo countries is concentrated with the wealthy. Here, the top 1 percent of income earners own 16 percent of New Zealand\u2019s total wealth, compared with the bottom 50 percent, who own just 5 percent of the wealth. He explains how this comes about by the policy directions that Governments take that ensure that wealth stays with the wealthy. He talked about the money empathy gap, where those who benefit from the Government policy directions, who have lots of money, develop less empathy for those without money, considering those on low incomes even as feckless. He also talked about the need to get rid of the big money from the political system, and to stop political parties taking donations from big businesses. Does that sound familiar?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThis legislation illustrates very, very clearly everything he said. We have a deal on the table here that will deliver a convention centre in Auckland and it will increase inequality in Aotearoa New Zealand. We do not have to do this deal. We really do not. If we really need a convention centre, publicly funding this would cost in the vicinity of $20 million per year over 35 years. That equates to less than $10 per year per taxpayer. We would own that convention centre. We would control that convention centre. We would avoid the increased social harm that will certainly come with it under the Skycity arrangement. We would also avoid a 35-year compensation clause that unconstitutionally chains future Governments to providing profits for Skycity Casino\u2019s shareholders. I call on all MPs across this House to ditch this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u002210e0e7d9bfb84ef79f4e07c10aa9e3ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210e0e7d9bfb84ef79f4e07c10aa9e3ef\u0022\u003EMARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E Every single day New Zealand is in competition with the rest of the world. Every single day visitors are getting on planes to go and visit other parts of the world, and we are part of that competition every day. New Zealand needs an international convention centre. We are too small to stand still. I commend this New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00229a2667c5cb244b88ae105cf92d67e364\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a2667c5cb244b88ae105cf92d67e364\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: This debate has concluded. The Speaker has determined that the vote will be a personal vote. Following the personal vote, there may be two other procedural votes. These will be cast as party votes. The question is that the motion be agreed to. Those of that opinion will say Aye, to the contrary\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00223549a36343bb40ff81c3c773ad26ca57\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223549a36343bb40ff81c3c773ad26ca57\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question as to the select committee, is it a question as to which select committee? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8e2fa2dcda3410b88ae0ac8b35829bb\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: It is a procedural\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022343965c2b7c84037b0d71401092239a3\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: That is quite an important decision, and there is certainly a view amongst some of our members that the Government Administration Committee, which has had a lot of experience dealing with conscience votes, is a better committee to deal with the bill, but that is a divided opinion. The ruling has been previously given to us, I think, as far as the substantive vote. We were expecting that a conscience vote would apply on the later questions, as well. I just want to check with the Greens as to whether notice was given to them that we would be denied a conscience vote on the subsequent motions. We have not, and it certainly has been our expectation that a conscience vote would apply on all these questions. If any part of it, frankly, is a conscience vote\u2014and the Speaker has been, I think, partly fair, because he has done only this stage, but we will look at other matters later on\u2014the question I have got is where the precedent is for votes on conscience issues, as this is, for subsequent motions to be denied a similar conscience vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002207c1538446154937a2bff6133c1a6ad5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207c1538446154937a2bff6133c1a6ad5\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for that contribution. If we look at Standing Order 139, it states: \u201CWhere the Speaker considers that the subject of a vote is to be treated as a conscience issue, the Speaker will permit a personal vote to be held instead of a party vote.\u201D He has already announced, and I have announced here, that we are going to accept that on the substantive motion. A bill, if it is passed\u2014and I make the point that it may be\u2014must go to a select committee. It is a procedural matter. The Government has the opportunity to decide which select committee the bill goes to. That is a procedural matter, just as the report-back time is. The Speaker has determined that those two votes, should there be votes, will be on a party basis. That is the position that I am also endorsing now, and that is where we are going to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022c71a9675daab409bb6d53c6744df2972\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c71a9675daab409bb6d53c6744df2972\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think there are effectively two points of order that have been raised by your explanation. In fact, whether or not a bill goes to a select committee is not a decision of the Government; it is a decision of the House. Equally, it is a decision of Parliament which select committee it goes to. Again, that is not a decision of the Government; it is a decision of this House, and there are procedures for amendments, which\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002248a2d0dadcf449c98fc975c3dcb9b61c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248a2d0dadcf449c98fc975c3dcb9b61c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I hear what the member is saying. If the select committee that is nominated is not the select committee that the House decides that it should go to, there can be a split vote or members can vote against it on a party basis. The opportunity for the House to decide is simply in the hands of the House. That is why we treat it as a party vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u002266a849434cd14c72b02c7a62ab6283bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266a849434cd14c72b02c7a62ab6283bb\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Musterer\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am just seeking clarification. Is this a ruling the Speaker has made on the question of the vote on where this bill should go, or would the Speaker reconsider this matter he has raised if a member called for a personal vote?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022342b4f2a644d4c5e9a18c1b6e50d50c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022342b4f2a644d4c5e9a18c1b6e50d50c2\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. I have already ruled that these are procedural matters. We are having a personal vote on the substantive motion, which I am now going to put. Some member, once I have put it, can call for a personal vote, and that is fine. But if this is passed, when we come back and we look at the select committee and the report-back time, those are procedural matters and will be treated as party votes, as I have explained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00220f7c0d9beb8e41acb981b221a598dcf7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f7c0d9beb8e41acb981b221a598dcf7\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Are you ruling that a member cannot call for a personal vote? The Standing Orders, as I look at them, certainly leave the option of calling a personal vote open to members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022865a796ddaf749d29a364eeca7baa772\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022865a796ddaf749d29a364eeca7baa772\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, Standing Order 141, \u201CPersonal vote following party vote\u201D, says: \u201CA personal vote may be held following a party vote if a member requests one and the Speaker considers that the decision on the party vote is so close that a personal vote may make a material difference to the result.\u201D So you are right in terms of asking for one. I have ruled that it will be a party vote, but Standing Order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251242ffd1b334a6faa9da6112d70a865\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: You were a bit premature.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c8fc0afffc24045a5b9b5a7499b06aa\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I said that maybe there would be a vote. Right at the beginning I said that there may be one. Standing Order 141 covers that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002292378e6b33184b7ab9b11bb46897ddb8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA personal vote was called for on the question, That the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAdams (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDunne\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKey (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESimpson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              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           \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrowning (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHague \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMathers (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESio\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EClark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHarawira (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMoroney\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStewart\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EClendon (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipkins (P) \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENorman (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStreet\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECosgrove (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHoran \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor D 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\u003Ctd\u003EWoods (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFlavell\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELole-Taylor\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERoche\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGenter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMackey\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESage (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMallard\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00224744d8083f2048e2a8128cccc456331c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224744d8083f2048e2a8128cccc456331c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the question is that the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill be considered by the Commerce Committee. Those of that opinion will say Aye, to the contrary, No. The Ayes have it? A party vote? [Interruption] I have already ruled that these are procedural matters. Someone has asked for a party vote, and we will have a party vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill be referred to the Commerce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a8b22a22afec4c93adae85c9778793cf\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; Independent: Dunne.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 59\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 33; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EQuestion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00227bc61feab3604c368848c01d6d4c6023\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bc61feab3604c368848c01d6d4c6023\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Minister of Energy and Resources)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Economic Development: I move, That the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill be reported to the House by 14 November 2013.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8119bdc025048a7aa9aa62d171a16c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8119bdc025048a7aa9aa62d171a16c7\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I move an amendment to that motion. I move, That the word \u201CNovember\u201D be replaced with the word \u201CDecember\u201D. This is an attempt by the Government to shorten the process in this area and to get this bill through before Christmas. The people of New Zealand deserve to have the full 6-month period at a select committee in order to have proper debate, proper submissions, and proper discussion on this. The attempt by the National Government to ram this legislation through is, in my opinion, something that is shameful, and it is caused by its embarrassment. This is a matter that the House needs to consider really carefully. It is a matter on which I am sure that thousands of New Zealanders will want to properly prepare submissions. We do not want to have a rushed period for those submissions; we want people to prepare them properly and to have them lodged, and for the select committee\u2014albeit the wrong select committee, but the House has decided on that\u2014to move its way around the country, and we want there to be proper opportunity for that to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EWhat has happened in the past on some of this sort of legislation\u2014and I know that my colleague Mr Flavell knows that with his legislation\u2014was that there were a lot of people who wanted to be heard and wanted to be heard more extensively, and who were not able to be heard because of the time frames put on the committee, especially because of the leadership of the chair of the Commerce Committee. I do want to say that I think it is vital that there be an adequate time frame for this discussion to occur at the committee. And although members opposite might argue as we go forward that there has been a lot of notice about the possibility of this and time for people to prepare their submissions, the point that I would make is that it is as recently as Monday that some of the information was made publicly available. And it is my understanding\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00225351fa3aa1da4f009bc74996ee9126b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225351fa3aa1da4f009bc74996ee9126b5\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I refer the member to Standing Order 286. Although a member may move an amendment, there is no debate on the question of amendment. So I am going to put the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224cab4706360d417fb2c9ed3474e01663\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the word \u201CNovember\u201D be replaced with the word \u201CDecember\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 33; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 2; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; Independent: Dunne.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022828ba5df17f542c2b8dc2c377071a102\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill be reported to the House by 14 November 2013.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; Independent: Dunne.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 33; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 2; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d87a7df77e06433183fb63c241645b58\u0022\u003EPsychoactive Substances Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c64c05f7505742b89eea7e2290035f9d\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022331e582df65c47da9acedcfc0b8dc60b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022331e582df65c47da9acedcfc0b8dc60b\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Psychoactive Substances Bill be now read a third time. It is my hope that today we take a very significant step to protect New Zealanders, particularly young New Zealanders, from the harm caused by untested drugs and an unregulated market. The Government\u2019s position is clear, as I believe this House\u2019s is. No one will be allowed to sell psychoactive products unless it can be shown that those products pose no more than a low risk of harm. Passing this bill will ensure that these products cannot be sold to children, that they cannot be sold from dairies, and that there are robust controls on what is in them and how they can be marketed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ENormally, I would take 10 minutes in this debate, but as we go into the school holidays it is my concern that there are products there on our wharves that are going to flood the New Zealand market, to be used to create a black market, and to drop prices in supermarkets. I will not speak for a single moment longer in this House and put children\u2019s lives at risk. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3eb908bd87c41849a78e606b2bb4a51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3eb908bd87c41849a78e606b2bb4a51\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E This is a great day. Our communities up and down New Zealand will be celebrating because this is the day that we legislate to get drugs out of dairies, and I have to say that it has been a long time coming. I am appalled by that Government over there, which has prioritised creating more opportunities to gamble and increasing the harm related to gambling ahead of this legislation, the Psychoactive Substances Bill, which is designed to reduce drug-related harm. That is a shocking indictment on that Government\u2019s priorities, and it saddens me. It saddens me that this excellent piece of legislation, which communities have been waiting for, which people working in the drug and alcohol treatment sector have been waiting for, and which, indeed, the people working in this industry who want to see a regulated, smart, cowboy-free industry have been waiting for for so very long. And once again\u2014this has been the theme of this legislation and the way that this Government has managed this legislation\u2014we are rushing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWe are rushing one of the most worthwhile pieces of legislation that have appeared in the world of drug regulation in a very long time. This Government places such a low priority on reducing drug-related harm that it is rushing it in the last minute in the last hour before we go on a 2-week adjournment. It is an outrage. It is an outrage that the Government puts such a low priority on keeping our children safe that it is rushing this legislation. Every moment of this process has been rushed. The Government left it for 2 long years after the Law Commission presented its recommendations. The Government brought this legislation to the House in February, and it sat on the Table for month after month after month, sitting way down on the Order Paper because there were other things that were more important to this Government than reducing the harm related to drugs. Then the Government made us rush the select committee process. We could not hear all the submitters, and we did not have time to get everything right. Then the Associate Minister of Health Todd McClay presents amendments handwritten at the last minute of the Committee stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EAnd then we get to today. We are selling legislation to Skycity. Binding future Parliaments to not be able to address gambling-related harm is an issue of greater priority to the National Government than reducing drug-related harm. That is an outrage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275f10cfef01e4bea9a0b11ab14d7952e\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: Calm down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229791efefbf4740efa046c10f3fad907a\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: That Government should hang its head in shame. Melissa Lee wants me to drop my voice. I will not drop my voice. I am angry at you, Melissa Lee. I am angry at that Government because that Government does not have the interests of our communities at heart. That is why I am shouting, Melissa Lee, because this could have been great legislation. This could have been a marvellous step forward for drug regulation in New Zealand. This could have been the opportunity to not only get the drugs out of our dairies but also create for the first time a legal, regulated market designed to reduce the harm associated with drugs. It will do that, but the attitude this Government has taken is just appalling. It has dithered, it has wasted time, and here we are, rushing this through right after that Government has voted to increase harm to our communities by allowing more gambling and selling off legislation to a corporation\u2014outrageous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI do support this legislation. I think it is a good bill. It has been a very long time coming. I am pleased that members around the House have seen through some of the distractions and the things that have divided us to eventually get to a piece of legislation that we can all support. Although this does do the job of getting the drugs out of dairies, there are a few things that could have been done better. One of those is to deal with the issue of possession. This is about creating a regulated market and ensuring that the manufacturers and sellers of high-risk substances get everything that they deserve, and that those who continue to flout the law get everything that they deserve. That is where we should be focusing our attention, not on the young people who find themselves in possession of these substances. It does nothing to advance the cause of this legislation to make the possession of an unapproved substance an offence, and it does nothing to fine those people. In fact, it will be an absolutely unenforceable component of this legislation. So I hope that in the future we will see fit to decriminalise the possession of these substances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe other thing I am concerned about is the new transition period that the Minister dumped on the Table at the very last minute. The Minister who was not the originator of the bill, the Minister who took no part in the select committee process, and the Minister who is a johnny-come-lately to this legislation and dumped at the very last minute a change to the transition period. It is a transition period that was deliberately designed to avoid a black market. I have noticed that the National Party has been throwing around today the idea that a black market might be created. The only thing that will create a black market is prohibition. My fear is that because we did not have time to properly consider all the consequences and unintended consequences of the Minister\u2019s amendment, what we may discover is that by reducing that transition period down to 3 months a black market is precisely what the result will be. I am hoping that is not the case. I am hoping that the Minister is right, and that the manufacturers of substances that are up for approval will be able to prove within that 3-month period that they have made some steps towards initiating clinical trials and that the Minister will then see fit to allow those substances to stay on the shelf, because what is really important is that the low-risk substances do stay in the regulated legal market. The last thing we want to do is create a black market by having effective prohibition being the result of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EOne of the aspects of this Psychoactive Substances Bill is a review after a maximum of 5 years. That is a good idea given that this is innovative and world-leading legislation. We need to have a review after 5 years to see whether we have got it right. There are a couple of things that I think are absolutely necessary in that review, if not before. The first is to consider the possibility of applying an excise tax to these substances. It is what we do with tobacco. It is what we do with alcohol. It is a good way of, one, raising revenue to fund the addiction services that may be needed to deal with the problems relating to these and other substances, and, two, using price as a demand-limiting control. We failed to do that with the alcohol legislation. We do it very well with tobacco. I think it should be applied to these substances as well. But I appreciate that we need to have a look at the pricing points and we need to look at what the appropriate way of using an excise tax is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EFinally, what I want to see is what the Law Commission actually originally envisaged, and that is a comprehensive review of the Misuse of Drugs Act. It is outdated. It is outmoded. It may have been appropriate in 1975, but it is not appropriate in 2013. In fact, the Misuse of Drugs Act is doing more harm than good in the 21st century. All we have done here is actually create an added layer. So now we will have some high-risk substances that are legal, some high-risk substances that are illegal, some low-risk substances that are legal, and some low-risk substances that are illegal. If that sounds confusing to people, it is because it is. Our drug legislation is utterly confusing, and what we really need is\u2014better than this, more than this\u2014a true review of the Misuse of Drugs Act. But for now, because this bill will get the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002210b15b3d491d44df8912b1fb9d5f79ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210b15b3d491d44df8912b1fb9d5f79ce\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0948d8b948e4316bec3c698c0a92866\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0948d8b948e4316bec3c698c0a92866\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Independent\u2014\u014Chariu):\u003C/span\u003E Given the exigencies of time, my call will be a brief one. I do not need to feign my delight this afternoon as the author and the originator of this bill, the Psychoactive Substances Bill, to see it finally pass into law. It is a world first. It is the creation of the regulated market that the member Iain Lees-Galloway, who angrily preceded me, referred to. It will put in place an environment within which these pernicious substances that are doing so much damage to our young people can be removed from the shelves immediately. There are issues for the future relating to the breadth of its scope in terms of other issues, and also the issues that the member Iain Lees-Galloway raised relating to excise tax and the general treatment of these products moving forward, that I think do merit consideration. That is for another day. What is important now is that this legislation is passed and is implemented, so that the temporary bans on various substances that I implemented over the last couple of years do not expire and we start to see those products come back on to the shelves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003ECan I acknowledge the work of current Associate Minister of Health Todd McClay and can I acknowledge the support of the House. This is a good day for New Zealand communities, and that is something the previous speaker and I do agree on. Many people will be saying: \u201CThis is long-overdue legislation. Let\u2019s get it in place, let\u2019s make our community safe for our kids, and let\u2019s move forward.\u201D, and I am with them on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u002271d8f699b4b641018b2b95993219527a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271d8f699b4b641018b2b95993219527a\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Thousands of New Zealanders are watching tonight, wanting this bill, the Psychoactive Substances Bill, to pass because it is a really important piece of legislation. It is about getting a horrible, toxic, poisonous set of drugs out of our dairies, out of our lives, and dealing to an issue that I think everyone in this House acknowledges is really important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIt is just such a contradiction to the previous piece of legislation, the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill. None of the Government members in this House today want to get up and talk about this important piece of legislation, but they wanted to speak about the last piece of legislation, which was about keeping another major problem in our community and making it worse. So on the one hand we are trying to take out toxic, poisonous drugs from our dairies, and on the other hand we are increasing another toxic problem in our society\u2014that is, problem gambling. Those members should be ashamed of that, and they should be ashamed that they did not take a conscience vote, a personal vote, on that issue. It is a conscience vote, and it just shows that the people across the House do not have a conscience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThis bill is important. I am proud to be speaking on it. I am proud to be part of a caucus that has worked really hard on this bill. We have got some people on our side of the House\u2014Iain Lees-Galloway and Annette King being two of them\u2014who have worked really hard during the select committee process to make sure that this is a much better piece of legislation, and who have made sure that we have made this bill a better bill and a better law that will go into our community and will take these drugs out of the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI also want to commend the Greens for the amendment that they put forward on animal testing. We did support that amendment. We do not want these drugs to be tested on animals. National refused to give up animal testing, but we in Labour are proud of the fact that our MPs were able to get the Government to agree to changes to the bill to ensure that there were alternatives to animal testing\u2014that alternatives exist that cannot be used in the evaluation of these substances. Although Mojo Mathers\u2019 amendment did not pass, at least there will be some safeguards now around that animal testing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI have received emails all day today from people about this bill, as well as emails about the other bill that passed its first reading in the House before the debate on this bill\u2014as, no doubt, has every member in this House. They are emails from people who are raising the issues and are talking about the increased harm that is happening as a result of the taking of these substances. I am going to read to you one of those emails that I received this afternoon. It said: \u201CI have ongoing concerns with people who use these drugs and who have future access to them, increasing burdens on health care providers and patients suffering clinical effects related to psychosis withdrawal symptoms, which can prevail for weeks, and addiction. There has already been a noticeable increase over recent months, but will most likely increase.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhen I stood up in the Chamber in the Committee stage, I showed members a report from the National Poisons Centre on the number of calls on these substances that had been coming in in the last year. I have got another table to hold up today, which shows in red the number of calls for June. It shows that it has gone down very, very slightly from May, but there has been a huge increase in the last few months in the number of calls that have come into the National Poisons Centre about these psychoactive substances. The reason for that may be related to the increased publicity around this bill, but health professionals are sending us warnings that as politicians we have to put in place legislation, and along with legislation comes the need for increased resources in our health sector to deal with the effects of these psychoactive substances, and in our mental health sector, and we also need to look at what is happening with the increase in crime related to the use of these substances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI will just read to you the latest report that has come in. It says: \u201CThe rates of calls to the National Poisons Centre have remained high\u201D\u2014and this is for June\u2014\u201Ccontinuing trends since April 2013. Adverse symptoms reported in April and May, notably acute kidney injuries, seizures, and acute psychosis, have continued to occur during June, with a further observation of an emerging trend of delayed seizures that are increasingly difficult to control.\u201D These drugs are doing serious harm\u2014harm that is not being seen done by other drugs. \u201COngoing discussions and meetings with emergency departments, medical centres, and other health care providers also report increasing burdens on their services by users of these drugs. Rates of attending patients are continuing to rise\u2014in particular, patients suffering addiction and withdrawal effects. With the banning of all present designer drugs in July, the National Poisons Centre anticipates this demand on health care services will continue to increase.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIt goes on to say: \u201CThe National Poisons Centre continues to be concerned by the rates of reported adverse effects following exposure to these analogues. Although the introduction of the new legislation this month will ban present designer drugs being legally sold, there will be ongoing burdens on health care providers, with patients suffering adverse psychiatric effects, which in some patients will be permanent, and issues centred on addiction and withdrawal syndrome.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E Throughout the whole of the discussion on this bill, I have asked over and over again, as have a number of my colleagues\u2014we ensured that it was mentioned in the commentary to this bill\u2014where the comparable resources are that are going to be put from the health sector into the need for what is going to happen after these drugs are banned and what we are seeing right now. The health professionals tell us that there is increasing need and that there are no more resources being put in. There is an increasing burden happening as a result of this. I ask the question again, in the House today: where are the extra resources that will be put in? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWe support this bill. We know it is an important bill. We know that it has got a lot of measures in it that are changing the way that we are treating our attitude to drugs in this country. We are looking at it from a harm minimisation perspective, which is a healthy and constructive and positive thing to do. I just want to quickly say that the purpose of going into a couple of those measures\u2014and I know that my colleague Iain Lees-Galloway and other colleagues on the Health Committee worked hard on this, on changing parts of the legislation, particularly around the purpose, which now reads: \u201CThe purpose of this Act is to regulate the availability of psychoactive substances in New Zealand.\u201D That was what was originally said, but they added the words \u201Cto protect the health of, and minimise harm to, individuals who use psychoactive substances.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThose are such important words\u2014the minimising of harm. It is moving the effect of drug taking into the health sector. We need to be looking more across the spectrum of the drugs that are being taken in New Zealand and the harm that is occurring, and looking at it from the perspective of harm minimisation. We need to be looking at other social harms that are occurring, such as problem gambling. This Parliament today could have done a brave thing and it could have addressed problem gambling as well as psychoactive substances. Instead, it has cancelled out, more or less, what we are achieving with psychoactive substances and is increasing problem gambling in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022efc2195eab214f63b27a2f6743d2c50c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efc2195eab214f63b27a2f6743d2c50c\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E In the interests of ensuring that this bill, the Psychoactive Substances Bill, is passed today, I am going to take a somewhat shorter call than I would otherwise have done. This bill is one that takes New Zealand a substantial step forward towards the kind of drug law reform that we need. It puts the emphasis on reducing harm and improving health\u2014that, rather than criminal justice, being the point of the regulation. It places the emphasis very much on the supply chain for these substances, rather than on the end user. It makes the regulatory response proportional to the risk that is associated with a particular substance. Those are all good things. Those are all things that we need to apply to drugs, currently both legal and illegal, across the board. I look forward to the opportunity of it doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThis could have been a great bill. [Interruption] Not quite, Barbara. It could have been a great bill, but there are three major problems that hold it back from that. I am disappointed that the Government either has not understood its own bill or has needed to appease different factions within its own camp, which has resulted in these problems. One is the issue of animal testing, about which I have spoken and colleagues across the House have spoken, and I acknowledge John Banks\u2019 particularly passionate support on that particular issue. The Green Party\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 260 on the bill would have ensured the same level of protection for humans but would have also resulted in protecting animals from harm, and it is a source of considerable regret that the House did not take the opportunity to ensure that that occurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe issue of possession was introduced almost at the last moment by the Government, against the advice of the Ministry of Health and in contradiction of the evidence that we have seen in relation to the Misuse of Drugs Act\u2014and, indeed, the temporary prohibition notices\u2014that possession offences do not assist with the purpose of this bill, which is to reduce harm and promote health. What is more, as I demonstrated at the Committee stage, those possession offences that are in this bill are essentially not only more hassle than any benefit that they provide, if at all, but also they are entirely unworkable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EFinally, if I thought possession was last minute, actually there is a last-second amendment by the Associate Minister of Health Todd McClay to drastically shorten the transition period for the bill. As a result of that, the very careful balance that was struck by the Health Committee, between trying to move as quickly as possible to regulate these substances, in the way that I have described, and at the same time ensure that the flood of substances that have been legal but will not be legal under the new regime does not result in an underground market for those substances has been entirely overturned on the basis of the Minister attending a meeting in Invercargill. I believe that that will come back to bite the Minister and come back to bite the Government, and I urge the Minister to try to find some way of ameliorating the problem that he has created. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0cff9d6c8114b5c974ad5887bab00b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0cff9d6c8114b5c974ad5887bab00b3\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great pleasure to stand and support the third reading of the Psychoactive Substances Bill. Submissions from throughout the country supported this bill, none more so than that of the Mayor of Timaru, who said this was the No. 1 problem in her community. I want to finish by saying thank you to all those who constructively worked towards this bill. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u0022638adbd88afb47b48955c0bafb319140\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022638adbd88afb47b48955c0bafb319140\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to take a call on behalf of New Zealand First on the Psychoactive Substances Bill. New Zealand First believes that ideally these products should have been banned. We are realistic and we know that this cannot and will not occur at this particular point. However, this bill is a very positive step forward from the situation that actually exists at this point in time. We want this bill passed today. We are sick of seeing the damage and the harm that is created among our young people from these particular drugs. It is ironic that the manufacturers, the importers, and the dairies are getting wealthier and wealthier at the expense of young people\u2019s health right here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe have to congratulate those dairies that acted before this bill actually came into the House and stopped the sale of these substances. Of course, we have to recognise the Waikato town of P\u016Bt\u0101ruru, which has actually banned synthetic highs from its town\u2014so well done, P\u016Bt\u0101ruru.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThere is a whole range of regulations that will stop the manufacturers from their merry trip around with these particular drugs. We want the bill passed. It will provide greater transparency. It will improve the health of New Zealanders, once these substances have to be proven to be safe. We want young people to be safe. We care for our young people. These substances have basically been an outrageous assault on our young people, which we in this House have let happen, so this bill is an important step forward. New Zealand First supports this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u00226bf89c3996a348cb9012e09b71cfbb8f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bf89c3996a348cb9012e09b71cfbb8f\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E The Psychoactive Substances Bill is an excellent bill. I commend it to the House. Thanks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u00229fdfbcf5a4da47feb048347524eef9bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fdfbcf5a4da47feb048347524eef9bf\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I do have to agree with the one thing that that member, Jian Yang, said, which was that the Psychoactive Substances Bill is an excellent bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c62771a04bb4031b890a428cfd2df41\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It was only one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbd3713348c549e393b1bde81e658c21\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: It was just that one thing. Many months ago I went to a meeting in my electorate and met the principal of Bishop Viard College, a good Catholic college in my electorate. Teresa Cargo, the principal there, highlighted her concern about synthetic cannabis and the awful effects that it was having in her classrooms. She spoke of the students who were constantly stoned under the effect of K2, I think it was, at that stage, and also her concerns about the approaches that were being made to the students. Many of her students were not going to the local dairies or the tobacconists to buy their K2; they were actually being approached in the streets, under the canopies in the centre of Porirua, by people on the street selling K2 to them, targeting young students in uniform, and she was very concerned about this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThis is an excellent bill for the community of Mana. I also want to praise the other principals in Porirua who at the meeting also raised concerns. Many of them were actually primary school principals, who were talking about the effects that not just some of the students had been displaying in their classrooms but, unfortunately, some of their parents. So today is a victory for those communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI would also like to praise the work of the local Porirua City councillor Wayne Poutoa, who runs the Streets Ahead 237 scheme in Porirua. He is another person, another leader, in my community who came forward and proactively came to me and said: \u201CLook, we have got some kids, some teenagers, who are vulnerable.\u201D He looks after them and he was very concerned about the effects that synthetic cannabis was having on some of the young people that he was looking after. Teresa Cargo, Wayne Poutoa, and Paul Basham, who is the local area commander for the Kapiti-Mana region, were three leaders of the Porirua community who came together and wanted this House to do something swiftly about synthetic cannabis. That is why today is a victory for many communities around the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI also pay tribute to some of whom I call the responsible retailers in the Porirua area, who responded to a letter that I sent out asking them not to sell synthetic cannabis any more. They were perfectly within their legal rights to do so, but because of the concern that was obviously there in the community that I have mentioned before, they took a proactive step and took the product off their shelves. To those dairy owners who did not, and willingly did not, I think they should have a good look at themselves. Obviously they were legally entitled to do this, but they were well aware of the harm that was being done in our communities and they actively kept selling synthetic cannabis. One good thing out of this bill is that they will no longer be able to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThose concerned people in our communities have been waiting a fair amount of time to have this bill passed. As the member previously said, this is an excellent bill, but if there are some criticisms about how this bill has gone through the House, one of them is that it has taken far too long. The recommendations out of the Law Commission report that basically were the base of this bill were presented to this Parliament about 2\u00BD years ago. We had to wait 2\u00BD years for this Government to prioritise it, and we had the communities getting up in arms, all these young people had all these bad effects, and we had the disruption to classrooms and the disruptions and the rubbish in our streets and our homes, before we took some serious action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo although I do want to praise Peter Dunne, who was the Minister originally responsible for this bill, there also has to be some scepticism as to why this was not given higher priority, given some of the other bills that this Government prioritised ahead of the Psychoactive Substances Bill. This bill languished on the Order Paper for well over 12 months when this Government could have done something much sooner to take this stuff off the streets. Looking around the House, I am pretty sure that everyone in this House is supporting this bill, but we have had to wait so long for us to get\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226878851b04d748b9a47e75239db50687\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think John Banks is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e250740bfdcf4757b5ca47bfab44461b\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: OK, maybe I stand corrected. But we had to wait so long for this bill to get to where we are. I praise MPs right around the House who have taken action\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229063b8b315bb4761aee4f2491bcd47e0\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Worked constructively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022348c03c460fd42ac86689fea6317c72d\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and constructive action. I thank Dr Paul Hutchison, the chair of the Health Committee. And well done, as well, to the members on the Health Committee who have taken proactive action within their own communities, like I did, in order to make sure that before this legislation was passed we did as much as we could to reduce the harm, especially to our youngsters in our communities. I think that showed not just leadership in this House but also that we were listening to our communities to make sure they were much, much safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI also heap praise, as I already have, not only on my local police force but on police right around the country. I know, certainly listening to public debate, that they have been working hard, and I guess there may have been a bit of sense of frustration on their behalf that this law had not been passed sooner. But they were dealing with the rough end of the stick here because this House had not done something sooner. They were dealing with the crime that was being caused, they were dealing with the disruption, and, unfortunately, they were dealing with some violence amongst families because people were taking this drug. You should not be able to walk into a dairy in this country and legally buy something that gets you high. That should not be fine. I think that if there is a criticism of this House from the public, it is that this House should have some done something much, much faster. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAs you heard from my colleague Clare Curran, the National Poisons Centre has had a huge spike in requests for help in terms of synthetic cannabis. If that is not a sign for this House that something should have happened much, much sooner, I do not know what we would need to see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThis is a good day. It is a victory for our communities right around the country, many of whom have taken positive action and protested outside their local dairies that have been selling it. Many have asked for a responsible retailing regime within their own communities to make sure that across the board we can identify those retailers who have taken responsible action and said that it is not OK to sell this rubbish in our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI do want to also back up a point Clare Curran made. We also need to make sure that there are the resources within our communities to follow up this law, and if there is one criticism or one point I do want to make, it is that police are under so much pressure at the moment with resources that they need to be given the backing to make sure they can go out and give effect to this legislation that we are passing today. Paul Hutchison made an interjection earlier\u2014it was not necessarily heckling\u2014and I would like to pay tribute to the Health Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d54959f98c14961a41c89276be00479\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It was shocking that they didn\u2019t hear the submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233ad253b23274b5e8e4747dc29358e45\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: I have not finished yet. I used to be a member on the Health Committee in the previous Parliament and I found that Mr Hutchison always acted with dignity. I thank the Health Committee for its work and for making sure that most of the submissions were listened to. I know there is some scepticism as to why some submissions around animal testing were not heard, and that is something that this side of the House is very disappointed about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThis bill is a victory for communities. They have put up with a fair bit of rubbish, but today we are getting through this House a piece of legislation that will, hopefully, stop that rubbish from being in our streets, our schools, and our homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c98cf1b9a6274c3fb83348ece49568c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c98cf1b9a6274c3fb83348ece49568c8\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E As a member of the Health Committee, I am very pleased to take a very brief call on the third reading of the Psychoactive Substances Bill. Others have congratulated the originator of the bill, Peter Dunne, Associate Minister of Health Todd McClay, and, of course, the chairman of the select committee, Paul Hutchison. Today when this bill is passed, communities up and down the countryside, and in Coromandel, will be safer and our youth will be better off for it. This is a very good bill, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223f6785bffe9f4602b953de0bdcbee0c0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Psychoactive Substances Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 119\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 33; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1; Independents: Dunne, Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002296a125df1f9a4361b43aa7b170423968\u0022\u003EPlumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229c952ef6eb874489b23a7e794dcaacc5\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00226977a014ca71447783215475464e643c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226977a014ca71447783215475464e643c\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Deputy Leader of the House)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Building and Construction: I move, That the Plumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Amendment Bill be now read a third time. On behalf of the Minister for Building and Construction, I take another opportunity to thank all members of the House for their consideration of the bill. The Plumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Amendment Bill is validating legislation. It validates a disciplinary levy and an offences fee set by the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board under the Plumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Act 2006.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe disciplinary levy and the offences fee were imposed on registered plumbers, gasfitters, and drainlayers to fund the board\u2019s disciplinary and prosecutorial functions over registered plumbers, gasfitters, and drainlayers, and non-registered people carrying out sanitary plumbing, gasfitting, or drainlaying work, as intended by Parliament. However, there is a lack of clarity regarding the board\u2019s ability to use these funds to investigate and prosecute non-registered people. Validation of the disciplinary levy addresses legacy issues, as it covers the disciplinary levies imposed by the board on registered plumbers, gasfitters, and drainlayers from 1 April 2007 to 11 January 2012. The bill also validates the offences fee imposed by the board from 12 January 2012. Overall, the validation of these fees and levies was the most practical and cost-effective option, because the money has been spent on investigations and prosecutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThis bill provides an enduring solution to the technical funding difficulties currently faced by the board, by extending the board\u2019s power to impose a disciplinary and prosecution levy on registered persons to fund the cost of prosecutions of those working illegally in the industry. This bill provides clarity and certainty to the board and the industry going forward. It ensures that the board will now continue to be appropriately funded to carry out all of its statutory functions, including the prosecution of non-registered people carrying out sanitary plumbing, gasfitting, or drainlaying work. This will allow the board to effectively do its job of protecting public health and safety. It will also allow the public to be confident that people undertaking plumbing, gasfitting, and drainlaying work are competent, registered, and regulated to carry out safe work. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u0022d92ed83a91b042a7a2a5bc0dceb5cf53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d92ed83a91b042a7a2a5bc0dceb5cf53\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E What a surprise. I got last-minute notice from the Government that the Plumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Amendment Bill would be debated this afternoon. What a surprise. So, just like the manner in which this bill progressed, we got ambushed again. Nobody had any idea that this bill would be coming up in the House this afternoon. We had it at the last minute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EAt the Committee stage, I congratulated the Campbell Live television show, \u201CThe politics of plumbing\u201D, because that show picked up lots of important issues that we did not pick up. For instance, who are the cowboys? Because enabling the board to prosecute these so-called cowboys in the sector is one of the main reasons why the Minister has chosen to get the bill rushed through the House. Through that television show, we understood that lots of competent, quality, and experienced plumbers, drainlayers, and gasfitters choose to boycott the undemocratic process of the board and choose to boycott the fees imposed on them, and\u2014to borrow the words of the Ombudsman\u2014that is not only a kind of unjustified fee, but also a kind of a new form of tax imposed on those experienced plumbers, gasfitters, and drainlayers. Therefore, they have become the so-called cowboys. As I reinforced in my speech contributions during the Committee stage, nobody would be in a position to defend these so-called cowboys. But, again, as the television show picked up, lots of the quality and experienced tradespeople choose to boycott the board, and have, therefore, become the so-called cowboys. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EI would also like to congratulate the officials on their hard work, because although this particular bill is not terribly complicated, it does involve lots of hard work, especially when the officials are placed in the unnecessary position of advising the select committee and advising the members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EBut having said that, I would like to pick up two major points. They are very important points that I would like to touch upon. One is that, to the surprise of many of the members, one of the pieces of advice that appeared in the Ombudsman\u2019s briefing\u2014and that is on paragraph 4\u2014reads: \u201CThe Ombudsman has upheld the complaint and recommended, among other things, legislation to validate the disciplinary levy imposed by the Board between 31 July 2010 and 11 January 2012 \u2026 The provisions of the PGD Amendment Bill form part of the Ministry\u2019s response to the Ombudsman\u2019s recommendations. The Ministry has been asked to respond to the Ombudsman by 29 March 2013.\u201D It is all correct, but I have a major problem with the set phrase\u2014the magic phrase\u2014\u201Camong other things\u201D. What are the other things in the magic, set phrase \u201Camong other things\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EIf we turn to page 18 of the Ombudsman\u2019s ruling, released early this year, we will find that\u2014and I will read it out\u2014there are basically two recommendations. The first one is: \u201CTo the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment and the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board, that they together or separately make proposals to the Minister of Building and Construction concerning the desirability or otherwise of: a. legislation to validate the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board (Fees) Notice 2010 as it relates to the disciplinary levy;\u201D. That is correct. What was missing from the briefing is No. 2, which says: \u201CTo the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board (regardless of the outcome of 1 above), that\u201D\u2014and I will it read out\u2014\u201Cit enter into discussions of representatives of persons registered under the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act 2006 to achieve a satisfactory arrangement with persons who have paid excess amount of levy under the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board (Fees) Notice 2010 in respect of the disciplinary levy.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ESo there are two sets of recommendations, and the two sets of recommendations come hand in hand. They are, namely, to bring legislation to validate the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board (Fees) Notice 2010 and also\u2014reading into the Ombudsman\u2019s view on this matter on page 10 of the ruling\u2014as a condition of validation, the board should engage with industry representatives, whereby the excess levies paid could in whole or in part be refunded over a period, or some credit could be given in respect of future fee or levy payments in compensation. But, unfortunately, that second set of the recommendations was missing, hidden, or buried in the set phrase \u201Camong other things\u201D. This is unfortunate and unhelpful, because one of the main reasons why half of the sector took the complaint to Parliament\u2019s Regulations Review Committee, the Office of the Ombudsman, etc., is unfairness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EWhat is in issue here\u2014to borrow the Ombudsman\u2019s words on page 7 of the ruling\u2014\u201Cis an unlawful levy, a tax, that the Board was not authorised to impose.\u201D Secondly, in relation to procedural fairness or unfairness, there was a failure to consult adequately before making the continuing professional development notices. Again I would like to refer to the Ombudsman\u2019s recommendations released earlier this year. Page 13 of his opinion reads: \u201CConsultation is often seen as a necessary element in ensuring the fairness of administrative decision-making by enabling those affected by proposed decisions to express their views before such decisions are taken. No doubt this is an important, perhaps the principal, reason for requiring consultation prior to decision-making.\u201D Secondly: \u201C\u2026 another important reason is to promote the effectiveness of any decision itself. By drawing on the knowledge and expertise of industry participants it can be expected that the decisions ultimately taken by the Board in regard to registration and licensing will be better, more grounded, decisions than those taken without the benefit of such input.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ELack of fairness and lack of adequate consultation are two of the main reasons why the industry took complaints to the Office of the Ombudsmen and to other officers as well. It is, therefore, important to present the full picture, not only for the general public but also for National members of Parliament, who have voted for this bill and, I believe, will vote for this bill again. This is a bill seeking to validate retrospectively the unlawful imposition of an unlawful tax. Having understood all the issues, if those members still believe that they should support their Minister for Building and Construction by voting for this bill, I say good on them. At least they have the guts to be a political hooligan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe second issue relates to another point I picked up from the briefing, and I believe it is one of the grounds for the Minister believing we should rush this bill through. On 12 May 2011 the chair of the Regulations Review Committee moved a motion in Parliament to disallow the clauses providing for the July 2010 fees notice relating to the disciplinary levy, with effect from 31 March 2012, the end of the board\u2019s 2011-12 registration year. It goes on and on, and the last sentence is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fe4b70f99214593bccb048ef8741c19\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u002200b5b66e6d40422490116018a6a0c85c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200b5b66e6d40422490116018a6a0c85c\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E First of all I would like to reiterate that National will be voting for the Plumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Amendment Bill. I acknowledge the contribution made by Raymond Huo, who was on the Government Administration Committee for this business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273881a3e11ac45e99ef1bb3aa6da7148\u0022\u003ERaymond Huo\u003C/span\u003E: I was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0e31589f21e4db295c7befcc915e3ad\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, you were there. I am acknowledging that you were there. I am acknowledging that to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe primary objective of this bill is to legislate to ensure the protection of public safety, and, most important, for reassurance that when you call a plumber or a gasfitter to your property, you can expect a qualified, skilful, and professional job to be done. This bill tidies up the legislation around the funding of the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board so that it can effectively do its job of protecting public safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe bill validates the board\u2019s disciplinary levy, which funded the investigation and the prosecution of plumbers, gasfitters, and drainlayers. The bill tackles anomalies of the funding of this, and tidies up any irregularities around the funding of the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board so it can effectively carry out its job of safeguarding the public, and impose the offences fee for the prosecution of people working illegally. The board is funded entirely from the fees and levies charged under this legislation. The funds are collected from only people who are registered under the Plumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Act. One such levy is the disciplinary levy, which is set out by the board to fund the cost of complaint and disciplinary actions against such people. There is also the offences fee, which the board collects in order to fund prosecution against non-registered persons working illegally in the industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E The validity of the disciplinary levy and the offences fee has been the subject of complaint to the Regulations Review Committee and to the Office of the Ombudsmen. The board was established under the Plumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Act 1976, and it has continued to exist under the current Plumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Act 2006. The board is responsible for protecting the health and safety of people by regulating, and ensuring the competency of, the people carrying out sanitary plumbing, gasfitting, and drainlaying work. One function of the board is to prosecute those who are working illegally in the industry\u2014non-registered persons performing work that only registered persons are allowed to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe Government is determined to bring about safety measures throughout the building sector and improve skills and capability within it\u2014to \u201Cbuild it right first time\u201D. As a result of the Regulations Review Committee\u2019s recommendation that the House review the disciplinary levy imposed by the board from July 2010 to January 2012, the board changed its fee and levy structure, removing the part of the levy relating to non-registered persons, and in January 2012 it set an offence fee to fund prosecution instead. This would affect the safety and the well-being of New Zealanders and the professional reputation of the sector. It is clear that the Government\u2019s intention was always that the board\u2019s prosecution function would be funded by the industry, because all its statutory functions are funded through these fees and levies charged under the Plumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Act 2006. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u00228a762030707049a4a0fe58c4903bdd1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a762030707049a4a0fe58c4903bdd1b\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker, for what is probably my last contribution to this piece of legislation, the Plumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Amendment Bill. I regret that it is not going to be a happy contribution. My concern with this legislation has been for a long time that, firstly, it is retrospective, and nobody likes retrospective legislation. Secondly, it seems patently unfair to plumbers, gasfitters, and drainlayers, who have been socked with an illegal levy. For them there will be no repayment or compensation for that, by virtue of this bill passing its third reading. We are about to make legal an illegal levy imposed by the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board, in order to provide p\u016Btea\u2014a basket of money\u2014that can help prosecute people who should not be practising in any of those trades. The purpose of that is entirely fine. The method of it was illegal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI have been constantly told by the Minister for Building and Construction and others that should we not pass this legislation, the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board would be bankrupt. The extent of this moneys owing back to plumbers, gasfitters, and drainlayers, from whom it was taken illegally, is in the order of some $600,000. Labour was always keen to find a different way through for this, and we made that clear at the beginning. It was contained in Supplementary Order Paper 204\u2014which my colleague Raymond Huo had put up\u2014that there be an agreement, a way of compensating in part those tradesmen who had been disadvantaged in this way. They would not get everything back that they were owed, but they might get something, and that was the import of an amendment that my colleague put forward. It would have been a reasonable thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E As it stands now, and as this bill is due to pass in the next few weeks, there is an injustice that is being done. People are being required to pay for something that was illegally taken from them. This disciplinary levy was collected illegally. As I say, the purpose of it might have been entirely valid, but it is not inconsistent with the history of the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board to not have done things entirely properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThere has been an inquiry into this board previously, under the Labour administration, and there was some change as a result. However, we have now seen this piece of behaviour come in and be discovered only latterly, and the remedy that the Government is jumping to is this one of retrospective legislation. I contend that there are other ways to have addressed it, that there could have been ways of arriving at a settlement that left the tradespeople not so disgruntled and the board not so out of pocket. But, quite frankly, having had those suggestions that the board will be bankrupted if this bill does not pass, I must say that I have not seen evidence to that effect. I do not understand why a board that receives annual fees for registration purposes and additional fees for licensing purposes can go bankrupt. If a member opposite is able to clarify that for me, I would be grateful to hear from them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EBut it seems to me that threats of bankruptcy are exaggerated and are overhyped, and I am not persuaded that that is the case. The board has constant revenue streams derived from registration and licensing fees. What it is doing now is compelling tradespeople, by dint of its own overreaching of its ability in law, to flee the cost of licensing. So what we will have is registered plumbers, gasfitters, and drainlayers not being licensed on a regular basis\u2014in other words, not having to prove that they have upgraded their qualifications and their skills on an annual basis. They will now become the prey of the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board, which will now seek to punish them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225656144843ca41868fe480c6dc407e6b\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba8bed96407f4b8c8a7926d845b68eca\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014by virtue of the very fee that it has extracted from them illegally. If that is difficult to understand, Mr Auchinvole, look at it this way: they have been required to pay a fee for disciplinary processes to get rid of the unlicensed cowboys in the industries, right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022788d0aeaa40847698b784fd8fc9cacc8\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Partly, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8ace31570444ae0a9a1ab1eb609b162\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: So now what we are seeing amongst tradespeople is that in order to avoid exorbitant fees, which have now accumulated to $600,000, they will not relicense. They will carry their registration, but out of protest at this fee they will not relicense, however much we choose to make it legal. That defeats the purpose that this fee was collected for, in my view. If we have unlicensed tradespeople who are now going to be hounded by the board because their lack of licence makes them unlawful, because they do not have the same qualifications and tickets that they ought to have to practise, then the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board has only itself to blame. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI consider that the passing of this legislation will compound the injustice to plumbers, gasfitters, and drainlayers. That is a travesty. There are other ways around this, and the Minister should have set his mind to more imaginative solutions than simply this one of validation, which the Labour Party cannot support. This has been a longstanding problem. This is not the way to solve it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 6 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201307112c27dbf765ba41b6867b56efb9c055a1000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"