"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002218ff272f6fd442948df1963abcf26afe\u0022\u003ETuesday, 6 August 2013\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222c3daad13e97423cb85a523e29cbc5fe\u0022\u003ETuesday, 6 August 2013\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223954d98ef471484a9931a5354f9db222\u0022\u003EMinisterial Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022434ac62b187847d89b22c2a62e6a3c40\u0022\u003EDairy Products, Whey Protein\u2014Contamination Incident\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u002261a92d60b4ae4341b2050ac71b6b5de8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261a92d60b4ae4341b2050ac71b6b5de8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to make a ministerial statement under Standing Order 352 in relation to Fonterra and the potential contamination issue. Last Friday the Ministry for Primary Industries received notification from Fonterra about a potential contamination issue relating to whey protein concentrate, manufactured at its Hautapu plant, that had tested positive for the food poisoning bacteria that could cause botulism. Officials immediately swung into action and they have been working around the clock since then to give us certainty and clarification on the extent of the potential contamination. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EI would like to reassure all New Zealanders, as well as our international trading partners, that the Government has all possible resources focused on this issue. We have established a ministerial response team, and a number of briefings, meetings, and teleconferences have been held over the days since the issue first came to the regulator\u2019s attention. Our main priority at this point is public safety. There are a number of questions that need to be answered by Fonterra, and it is likely that both Fonterra and the Ministry for Primary Industries will hold inquiries after this situation has been resolved, but those questions are for another day. As I said yesterday, now is not the time for recrimination. Now is the time to make sure that consumers have the best information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThe Ministry for Primary Industries has had staff in Fonterra\u2019s Hautapu plant, the site of the contamination, conducting testing, and has also had staff in Nutricia\u2019s offices, assisting with the tracking of infant formula products that may contain the contaminated whey protein. It has also put officials into Fonterra\u2019s data centres, with its agreement, to assist in getting absolute clarity on the situation. However, the situation remains fluid. The information changed a number of times over the first 72 hours. That is why officials and the Government have been taking, and will continue to take, a conservative, precautionary approach until we get absolute certainty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThis issue will obviously have implications for our export markets. We are working closely with our trading partners to keep them informed and to get them the latest information as soon as it comes to hand. Overall, to date the response from international markets has, on balance, been measured. We have received mixed messages from Russia, and we are working with the Russian authorities to clarify the situation. China has suspended imports of Fonterra\u2019s produced whey powder and dairy base powder from New Zealand and Australia, and has increased inspection and supervision at the border for New Zealand dairy products. However, that has not stopped imports of our two biggest exports, whole-milk powder and skim-milk powder, at this stage. Together, these two exports to China were worth around about $2.37 billion over the past year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EYesterday, after the Ministry for Primary Industries had issued earlier precautionary advice regarding two of Nutricia\u2019s infant formula products, Nutricia decided to issue a voluntary recall for those two affected product lines: Nutricia Karicare Infant Formula Stage 1, for babies from birth, all batches; and Nutricia Karicare Gold Plus Stage 2 Follow-on, for babies from 6 months, all batches. It is important to note the recall does not affect any other Nutricia Karicare products. As I said earlier, the health of consumers is of the utmost importance, and it is critical that these products are recalled, until any contamination can be ruled out. Parents and caregivers should move to alternative brands in the meantime, until we can get absolute clarity on the situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThe Government and officials are working closely with the Food and Grocery Council and retailers to ensure that the two affected product lines are removed from the shelves, and to ensure an adequate supply of alternative brands. If any parents or caregivers have any of the recalled product lines at home, they should return it to the shop they bought it from for a refund or dispose of it. Officials and the Government will be keeping the New Zealand public completely up to date with all information as it arrives and further clarification is received. In the meantime I urge all parents and caregivers to refer to the Ministry for Primary Industries website for the latest and most up-to-date information on the situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u00227e9c1ac3c7cf42de92a5e42909cf203a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e9c1ac3c7cf42de92a5e42909cf203a\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Our priority today and over the next few days is making sure that parents here and abroad have the accurate information they need to ensure that their children are safe. As a parent, I understand how anxious they might be feeling. They are confused and worried about whether there is a risk to the health of their kids. Their questions must be answered in full. They must have access to accurate and timely advice, and nothing must be held back from them. The safety of our children and children abroad is paramount. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EWe are standing alongside the Government as it works with Fonterra to provide answers for parents. We will also support its efforts to protect our export markets and the international reputation that we have from further damage. When the time is right, we will also be demanding answers, as many New Zealanders will be. Why did the potential contamination take so long to detect? Why did it take so long to tell people about it? Why has the Ministry of Health not played a major role in getting information to parents? What protocols do the Ministry for Primary Industries and Fonterra have for handling these situations, and have they followed them? And what can we do to prevent this kind of shambles ever happening again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EFonterra is New Zealand\u2019s largest company. It came into existence under law under a previous Labour Government. It was given special rights to operate largely outside the Commerce Act to maximise our nation\u2019s wealth, and we are proud of its achievements. But with rights comes enormous responsibility. As our only truly global company, Fonterra\u2019s responsibility includes protecting our reputation as a source of safe, high-quality food. This is built as much on trust as it is on technology, but the quality of trust disappears as transparency fades. Fonterra, in this case, has let us down. Its strategic communications have been hugely lacking. People understand that things can go wrong, but they expect to be told the truth and given the full facts. That is what this country is known for around the world\u2014our honesty and our transparency. That must never be put at risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EHard questions must also be asked about the role of the Government. Have Ministers done enough? Has the Ministry for Primary Industries been too hands-off? The Ministry for Primary Industries\u2019 mission statement is to grow and protect New Zealand, but has the push for growing exports overshadowed the critical focus on protection\u2014in this case, the protection of families and their children, of our international standing as a safe food exporter, and of our nation\u2019s overall reputation? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EWe must work harder than ever to safeguard our valuable relationship with our trading partners, including China. China is right to be asking questions of us given events such as the dicyandiamide scare and the problems with meat certification. It is devastating today to see the Chinese media describing our \u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D campaign as a festering sore, and claiming that our food safety issues are systemic. This shows that the \u201Cshe\u2019ll be right\u201D attitude simply does not cut it in our global market place. We must be more vigilant than that. This issue is bigger than politics, but Fonterra is not bigger than Parliament. It is up to us in this House to come together and make sure that everything that happens from this moment on happens in the best interests of parents and of our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce997a261e6d406fb1762647a5011764\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce997a261e6d406fb1762647a5011764\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to say just a few words on behalf of the Green Party. The Greens will be playing our part as a part of this Parliament to find out what happened. I think that is important because we are doing it on behalf of New Zealand parents, but we are also doing it on behalf of parents all around the world, and that needs to be our No. 1 priority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EMums and dads both here in New Zealand but elsewhere as well, in other parts of the world, need to be sure that the food they are feeding their kids is safe. That needs to be the fundamental starting point for anything that we do and anything that we say as a Parliament. I believe that around this Chamber today that is a common understanding. I believe that we will all do everything we can to ensure in the first instance that we locate all the contaminated ingredients, and that we provide all the information necessary to the parents so that they can be aware of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EI would also say that I think there is a much more important role for the Ministry of Health. I would like to see the Ministry of Health stepping up and providing advice to parents. The Ministry for Primary Industries is fine, but it is the Ministry of Health that I think should be playing a bigger role in this. We need more information and a much larger campaign to get that information out than what we have seen to date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EI would also say that there are a number of critical questions that we are going to need answers to when we go forward and deal with this issue. Are our food regulations adequate? Does the regulator have a sufficiently independent and powerful position in regard to the industry? It is very important, I believe, that the regulator, in this case the Ministry for Primary Industries, is in a position where it can control the industry and, if necessary, enforce standards and make sure that the industry is operating within the rules that the regulator sets, rather than the other way round. We need to make sure that that is exactly what has happened here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWe also have a question about whether the lessons from the dicyandiamide scare have been learnt. We know that that was, in some ways, the first concern that came up a number of months ago, and we want to make sure that we have learnt the lessons from the dicyandiamide scare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThis is not just a Fonterra problem, and it is not just a Ministry for Primary Industries problem; it is a problem for all of us. I think that we as a Parliament need to reinforce the fundamental values that underpin Parliament. It seems to me that there is a place for the nanny State, and there is a time for the nanny State, and if that is not protecting the safety of food that we feed to our children, then I do not know when else we would have the nanny State. This is exactly when we need that kind of State to protect the well-being of our children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWe have some fundamental questions to ask about the time lag between the discovering of the Clostridium and the determination that it was Clostridium botulinum. The number of months between those two points in the time line seems to me particularly critical. I think I have now got my head around why Clostridium was not found at the beginning. It was found only when it was tested later to go into the baby-formula food stream. That makes sense to me, but why the gap between the identification that there was Clostridium there and that it was C. botulinum? It seems to me that those months there need more explaining as to why there was such a big gap between those two points in the time line. I hope that the Government puts that as a priority in the inquiries that follow this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EFederated Farmers\u2019 Willy Leferink said in the Dominion Post today: \u201CIf there\u2019s any break in this pasture to plate chain then product does not go, or rather, that is how things are meant to work,\u201D. That chain of custody seems to me critical to the food security issues that we need to get right. I look forward to the Government inquiry that comes once we have got through this initial period of making sure that people and children are safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b80132ce030f4c4d85790d084233f049\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b80132ce030f4c4d85790d084233f049\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E We thank the Prime Minister for his statement on the Fonterra contamination scare. This is surely not a time for political point-scoring, and no one in New Zealand First misunderstands the gravity of this issue. This country has always had a reputation for the purity of its food, and nothing must be allowed to compromise that reputation, not even statements of human error. Systems are put in place to eliminate human error when the consequences of such mistakes can be so dramatic. Our prosperity as a nation depends on it. This food contamination scare reminds us of how vulnerable our economy is and how vulnerable the consumers of our products may have been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E Over the coming weeks and months much investigation will go into the how and why of this contamination scare\u2014how it happened and why it happened. That investigation must be comprehensive and thorough. But what we know already is that a critical market has been hurt, as have others, and, second, that the restoration of our product reputation will nevertheless probably result\u2014almost inevitably result\u2014in a price reduction for this product. We also need to do some serious thinking on the wider implications of putting excessive reliance on a handful of economic sectors, and ways to reduce exposure to risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe are also reminded in this crisis that for our society and economy to succeed, the private and public sectors must work together, and not just in a time of crisis. Ultimately, we are, after all, in the same boat. No one wanted the crisis. It has had great potential to damage New Zealand\u2019s credibility as a food source, but as a nation we must use this crisis to learn and build better and safer systems to ensure it does not happen again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b192fee65259490f9e93b5a783281d25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b192fee65259490f9e93b5a783281d25\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the other political leaders for joining with the Government in having as the No. 1 priority that the security and safety of consumers and, particularly, their babies, is paramount. I happen to agree with other political leaders, there are plenty of questions that will need to be answered, and in the fullness of time we will get those answers. I am confident that the Government is putting all the resources necessary into this issue, and over the next few weeks and months we will be doing everything we can to restore New Zealand\u2019s reputation in the international market place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cd40bccf41b64b688c1a33985a26ac45\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a87e36a457540c6b3fa3d5fd6fde52a\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224d16ba32411f4aeeb6f6d6a6e1464cc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d16ba32411f4aeeb6f6d6a6e1464cc1\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E In accordance with a decision of the Business Committee, I seek leave for the House to suspend for the dinner break following the maiden statement of Meka Whaitiri today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022b72b193e8bd14b9c9b1a1201144c0c6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b72b193e8bd14b9c9b1a1201144c0c6d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002237eca9f5bfee4f1993e583a9e74d4694\u0022\u003EExtended Sittings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d8e4064f048d4d639d0740387cbd1143\u0022\u003EExtended Sittings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022378d3c1e8c684bf3a1019836376595e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022378d3c1e8c684bf3a1019836376595e4\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the sitting of the House on Tuesday, 6 August 2013 be extended from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m. on Wednesday, 7 August 2013 for consideration of the interrupted debate on the third reading of the Appropriation (2013/14 Estimates) Bill, the second and third readings of the Imprest Supply (Second for 2013/14) Bill, the first reading of the Raukawa Claims Settlement Bill and its referral to a select committee, and the first reading of the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2) and its referral to a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00220ea8c6cd76d449288c75332b25bbc579\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ea8c6cd76d449288c75332b25bbc579\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. In fact, I have two points of order. The first is a question as to whether this is a debatable motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef90bba3e3894511b05ba1e5a260b22c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a non-debatable motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229aec46ee851a472aa315f5b5db78a4ed\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My second point of order goes to the order of dealing with matters in the House. It is my understanding that under Speaker\u2019s ruling 179/3, the Prime Minister\u2019s correction to statements he made in relation to a Fairfax journalist and communications should have occurred before this motion. It is to be done at the first opportunity. I can understand it going after the Fonterra matter, because that can take even further priority, but my question is why that has not been dealt with before this motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022d50ac115d7a340c6ba7a311849d781bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d50ac115d7a340c6ba7a311849d781bc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is a matter for any Minister or, in this case, the Prime Minister, who so wishes to correct any answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226c3f3323927140c99eae83dc0859b973\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; Independent: Dunne.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; Mana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002215baea5d886a497dbc2aa8f703ac1d30\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002209579729f7c34427a4f039b0af604511\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u2014Amended Answers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00228086ad12ea3a4bfaa72f384810d8388f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228086ad12ea3a4bfaa72f384810d8388f\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I now want to refer you again to Speaker\u2019s ruling 179/3. I want to make it absolutely clear that I am not making any allegation of breach of privilege here. I am going to take the Prime Minister at his public word last week that he was wrongly advised, and that the errors he made in answering questions in the House were accidents rather than anything that was deliberate. Notwithstanding that, the Standing Orders and Speakers\u2019 rulings make it absolutely clear that when an error has been made in answer to an oral question, there is an obligation on the Minister to correct his answer to the House. I know that you are in a somewhat uncomfortable position yourself because you are not subject to oral questions, and assurances that you gave in the Committee stage are somewhat of a problem to be sorted. But the obligation of the Prime Minister is absolutely clear. He must come to the House and he must correct his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00228117222c1e424c03a6f54993fa0fb1f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228117222c1e424c03a6f54993fa0fb1f9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! In effect, the member is now re-raising the same point of order a second time but reinforced with a Speaker\u2019s ruling. My ruling still stands. It is a matter now for any Minister\u2014or, in this case, the Prime Minister\u2014to determine whether there is an answer to be corrected. If the member thinks the course of action charted by the Prime Minister or any Minister is unsatisfactory, the member has alternative means to raise the matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac222fabea764d1198b91dd99f432275\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac222fabea764d1198b91dd99f432275\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228898306114b042eabc7f3d54de7bb84e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a further point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db0262e30cdf43069fcf4c500edddae8\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and it goes to what the alternative methods are. I understand\u2014again, taking the Prime Minister at his word that he was in error in the statements he made last week\u2014that that is not a breach of privilege. Can you inform the House whether in fact it is a matter of privilege not to do a correction in these circumstances? Is that the method you are recommending that I take up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022983310d243334dc790ba10b47f131fe0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022983310d243334dc790ba10b47f131fe0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member can decide what action he wishes to take. If he wishes to write to me to allege a breach of privilege, then I would certainly have a look at that and consider it, as I do any application for a breach of privilege. But I am certainly not going to rule on that matter at this time in front of the House without a formal application from the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f173d471070d4023bcf6ca992c039f9d\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e7ee58bb254f4870bd952008d7dfcd03\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229029a2830e1f444db7022d34606fcc37\u0022\u003EGCSB, Review of Compliance\u2014Investigation into Leak and Authorisation for Release of Data\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022caf2af30be654142af757a1f6a4ac9e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022caf2af30be654142af757a1f6a4ac9e3\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E This question is to the Prime Minister and asks: does he stand by all of the answers given on his behalf to Oral Question No. 5 on 29 May 2013?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a86b1891fef14daebfe0660ea098310a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a86b1891fef14daebfe0660ea098310a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I think the member has got the question wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022965bf704064b4316b5ba259c896eeda3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022965bf704064b4316b5ba259c896eeda3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! On this occasion, could the member please repeat the question as worded on the Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bca929a2c384fa2a91371070ec82015\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I made the mistake of using the draft.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4c0c0e104c94855a34f881b560d176a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! We all, on occasion, make mistakes. We do not often expect many from the right honourable member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00225fe75ae8941d4b8d96a28d536f64189b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225fe75ae8941d4b8d96a28d536f64189b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all of the answers given on his behalf to Oral Question No. 5 on 30 May 2013?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00220a69d8a9276d4d59b208f05faf404e87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a69d8a9276d4d59b208f05faf404e87\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Now that the member asks, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225623d09220e74134be037353dc75d37a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Given that his chief of staff, Mr Eagleson, told him as Prime Minister on 29 May of email correspondence between Peter Dunne and Andrea Vance, and that Mr Dunne was not complying with the inquiry, why did the Prime Minister state on 30 May that \u201CI do not how Mr Henry is conducting his inquiry.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c22578a76cff4e5e926ff6c8be0490a4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Because that was correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ae42b09597842469e2bb352c10b839b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Was his chief of staff, Mr Eagleson, telling the truth last Friday when Mr Eagleson said that he had, subsequent to 23 May, \u201Cno further role in authorising or influencing the release of any further information\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a3497d0cbb14ceca0346d417f485f13\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227021c1e68bf14baeac230c2fc36c21e9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How can that answer possibly be correct when it is a matter of public record that Mr Eagleson was in frequent contact with Mr Dunne\u2019s office in the period 27 May to 4 June regarding the release of email correspondence\u2014a fact that the Prime Minister has confirmed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db83c1d9414d4e8ca0359d1f66c985ff\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: What is clear is that whether the emails were released by Mr Dunne\u2019s office was a matter for Mr Dunne and a matter for his chief of staff. What my chief of staff made clear was that my expectations were that all Ministers would comply with the inquiry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e28a698170f2492c88438fb9f41b5c5c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That last question challenged the answer to the previous question as to its correctness. The previous question was related to Mr Eagleson\u2019s claim of having no further role in authorising or influencing the release of any further information. That is the gist of it and that is what I am asking. How can you reconcile what he said with the prime ministerial information released to the public of the 27 May to 4 June contact and role and involvement? His answer has no connection to that, though it would superficially seem like he had given some answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203af9f0f7d54492e9b685e176bad39c4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The essence of the question is how that answer can be correct, given some further information the member asked. Does the Prime Minister have anything further to add to the answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228984cc85294b47e1a387275d3e95c3be\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: At the start of the inquiry Mr Eagleson wrote on my behalf to all Ministers and staff, advising that the expectation was that they would comply. That position never changed. If Mr Eagleson did that, he did that some time before when the member is asking about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283ea0b9b1b3e4dcabeb79908b5222e4d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. We are allowed in our system of government and constitution to ask questions to seek to get at the truth. You have the chief of staff saying he had no role at all after 23 May, and the Prime Minister on record saying that between 27 May to 4 June all this involvement was participated in by his chief of staff. One of those statements cannot be true, and the Prime Minister is making no attempt to tell us which one is true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218620638c38542fbbb25714b999d696e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: On this occasion I do not agree with the final point that the member is raising. The member\u2019s question asked how that answer could be true. On two occasions now the Prime Minister has attempted to justify how he thinks that answer can be correct, and that is for the Prime Minister\u2019s responsibility, not mine. On this occasion the member, I understand, has one further supplementary question left. I will give him an additional supplementary question to see whether he can tease out the answer he may require.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226245939b99d14281bd90a8fb72414e18\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I do appreciate that. Does he truly expect the public to believe that the Chief Executive of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, Andrew Kibblewhite, was involved in Henry inquiry - related discussions to facilitate the release of phone records and email correspondence, but did not tell him as Prime Minister about this for a whole month?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f82dff9f86214f1e961589dff1a23791\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee4d33c750d2426ebbeb78d6bdf9106e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: When Mr Eagleson said that he had no further role in authorising or influencing the release of any further information after 23 May, how was it that he got involved in the frequent contact with Mr Dunne\u2019s office in the period 27 May to 4 June?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b922173bd1244accbb58c87a6fd93563\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is quite clear. The statement made by Mr Eagleson was in relation to asking Parliamentary Service to authorise the data, not correspondence or the discussion between Mr Eagleson and Mr Eaddy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a358fde67cc4cd9937bd2e56363d803\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You will recall that I used the phrase \u201Cauthorising or influencing the release\u201D. The Prime Minister goes straight for \u201Cauthorising\u201D, and we all know it was about influencing the release that we are after. [Interruption] Well, OK\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221717461f7f24037afa1b7ce8af8bc7e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! This is a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229f6cb90fd2c49ec9425cf33c45c6171\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: The reality of it all is that, one, Mr Eagleson is admitting that he was authorising or influencing at a certain date\u201423 May\u2014and then he says that neither authorisation or influence, according to the Prime Minister, affected his 27 May to 4 June relations with Mr Dunne\u2019s office. That is just beyond credibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c38ff5f1b4d4e94bd71d269ee696ebe\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I have given a good amount of time for the member to raise a point of order, which was, in effect, a debate on the answer that has been given. I rule that the Prime Minister has adequately addressed the question that was raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226832da729a964ce281dc7a52b4155c11\u0022\u003EDairy Products, Whey Protein\u2014Contamination Incident\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022977666cc1a8e4b80a1b7a3196a9220f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022977666cc1a8e4b80a1b7a3196a9220f9\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement that he is \u201Cdeeply concerned\u201D about the Fonterra whey protein scare and if so, is he satisfied that parents in New Zealand and overseas now have accurate information on this issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00228d09f0877e8e42748a5388322a75039b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d09f0877e8e42748a5388322a75039b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. I am satisfied that Government agencies are working hard to provide New Zealand parents and caregivers with the utmost up-to-date information that they have. Parents should continue to monitor the Ministry for Primary Industries website and call Healthline and PlunketLine for further advice. In respect of overseas customers, their respective regulatory agencies are responsible for providing information to their consumers. The Ministry for Primary Industries and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade are giving those regulators the latest information as they have it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288627c9dabd94c0e8766403d2b099a76\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: What role is the Ministry of Health taking to reassure parents that the baby formula they are feeding their child is safe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f470fdb4dcb64aac96807ef050a4da72\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: My understanding is that the Ministry of Health has been involved with the response group that was established by the Government. The Minister of Health has been involved in every teleconference that I was involved in over the weekend. I might stand corrected, but his director-general was involved right through the weekend in terms of all of the information. The Ministry of Health website has been updated, and we have been monitoring admissions to hospitals around the country for any signs that might indicate that a baby has consumed infant formula that is tainted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2b29d92c9794102846e2f26bf56e68c\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Were Ministers told of the issue before the Ministry for Primary Industries; if so, what actions did those Ministers take?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f3315f468aa47f5880afe3189b9b61d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: My understanding is that at 12.35 on Friday, Fonterra advised the Ministry for Primary Industries, and then from there the other contact flowed with Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f1f485d5e814b8b8071a7e5b22f185c\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Is he satisfied that the protocols\u2014if those protocols exist\u2014between the Ministry for Primary Industries and Fonterra resulted in timely disclosure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b1cfefe08064ed09349b555c8ae6115\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I think it would be very difficult for me to actually give an answer to that today. I think we do need to go and have a full inquiry. I mean, we have made it quite clear\u2014or I think the company has made it quite clear\u2014that it was aware on the Wednesday, and yet the Ministry for Primary Industries was not aware until Friday lunchtime. I cannot explain that gap in time. I think that is one of the very real issues that needs to be looked at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4ca1e656d7a40fcb4c8f606af577d13\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Chinese media is calling the \u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D brand \u201Ca festering sore\u201D, what urgent action is he taking today to limit the fallout for New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3914e855fad46d8a739f48b71ea4426\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think that in reality the first issue we need to do is actually identify all of the potentially contaminated product and make sure it is off the shelves and not accessible to consumers. I think, secondly, from there, we need to be transparent, actually, with all countries that trade with us that we have actually gone and looked at what went wrong and ensured that it will not happen again, and then, ultimately, we need to continue to communicate with our customer markets. But I do think a bit of perspective needs to be put on this. I am not in any way downplaying the very seriousness of what has taken place, but I think we can also look back on 100 years of trading food internationally, and we have, generally speaking, very, very safe and high-quality standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd8e308722b442ac91004b5b906a1e59\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister in a position to tell us whether the tests in March 2013 that found Clostridium in those ingredients\u2014and at that point we did not know whether it was a toxic form of Clostridium\u2014triggered some kind of notification to the Ministry for Primary Industries and the Minister for Primary Industries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228af4f8bf04844223bfef157a715444ff\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Authoritatively I cannot be sure, but I think it is fairly unlikely that it did trigger a response to the Ministry for Primary Industries. My understanding of the way things went is that when they did the tests in March, I think it was partly done in Australia with Nutricia. That showed up, they spoke to the company, and the company did a series of other tests, but it was only really on Wednesday of last week when the company was sure, as a result of all of its testing, that it had a potentially very serious problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a1ae4515d3940b4bdf0610002447c49\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister in a position to tell us why there was a 5-month delay between the identification of some kind of Clostridium and the final identification that it was actually Clostridium botulinum?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022270a0552421c4d1e9d2bc080cd717c45\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, but I think the member asks a very good question, and it will be part of the review that will be undertaken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e57aa64d347243a7bb129145b5576a79\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe that there should be some kind of automatic process whereby when a food manufacturer, like Fonterra but any other as well, finds Clostridium in their product, particularly a product that is destined for infant formula, the Ministry for Primary Industries should immediately be told that there is a potential problem?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f3c652474964f8da18290cd896e9942\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: That might be something that can form part of the review. I suspect that Fonterra may argue, or other manufacturers may argue, that that actually shows up more regularly than we think, but, in fact, it depends on the circumstances. One can only assume that Fonterra itself certainly does not want to do damage to its markets and its customers, and, therefore, if that had really sent the alarm bells ringing back in March 2013, one would assume that it would have acted much faster than it did. So it obviously believed that it was not a serious enough threat to stop the production of that infant baby formula.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248465c8f00a840d48f908632dac1c2b6\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Accepting that answer, does the Minister agree that having found Clostridium, it should have been an urgent question that needed answering very quickly as to whether that was Clostridium botulinum rather than just a harmless kind of Clostridium, because the answer to that question was critical to whether it should have allowed more of the product to go forward into the food chain?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227106a185d1b049d0bf1974d1737e097b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, I think the member makes exactly the right point. We just cannot answer that question today. But it does seem very, very odd that Fonterra allowed production to carry on and for that infant baby formula to go into the supply chain or into the distribution chain. So one can only assume that it believed right up until Wednesday of last week that that was not an issue. I cannot explain why it did not think that that was an issue, but their scientists in the fullness of time may be able to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022362f1c3612ee48ce928d5bf4c2f0e243\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister put this question to the Ministry for Primary Industries, rather than just Fonterra, as to whether the Ministry for Primary Industries believes that there should have been much quicker action on having found the generic kind of Clostridium?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220aa32049ad814bf491610f228b7cee89\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I personally have not, although there was a sort of round-table discussion yesterday with the acting director-general, which sort of broadly traversed these kinds of topics. I suspect those sorts of questions have been asked, but the acting director-general has been extremely focused on trying to understand and quantify exactly the issue and where the product actually is. So, as I have sort of said on numerous occasions, there will be plenty of time to look at these questions, but it probably has not been the top of priority in the last 48-odd hours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022399efc06d45d4e8e809db8b5efebccc6\u0022\u003EDairy Products, Whey Protein\u2014Economic Impact of Contamination Incident\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbb27396f991400baeee869b47ab61d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbb27396f991400baeee869b47ab61d5\u0022\u003EPAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What are the expected economic consequences of the potential whey protein contamination issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4d5805ffa214a7ebd4a1f79034d4ebf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4d5805ffa214a7ebd4a1f79034d4ebf\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Government\u2019s immediate priority is to protect families and consumers in all markets from the potentially affected products, to share information, and to work closely with our trading partners. In the year to June 2013, New Zealand exported $45 billion worth of product. Of this, around a quarter was dairy, and, of that, around a quarter was exported to China. In the year to June 2013, the export value of the two products potentially affected by contamination, whey protein concentrate and dairy-based powder, to our largest market in China totalled $125 million. That is around 1 percent of dairy exports, or 0.25 percent of total exports. Only a fraction of that $125 million of value is currently subject to restrictions into the Chinese market. Products not affected include whole and skim-milk powders, fresh and UHT milk, butter, cheese and yoghurt. There is some longer-term risk, of course, of effects to our reputation, but, if these circumstances are managed transparently and effectively, we ought to be able to reduce those risks. The economic impact of the amount of product currently under restrictions is sufficiently small and would not have a discernible impact on our GDP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1a5eac18bb44b26a474d24659e82be9\u0022\u003EPaul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: What preliminary assessments has he seen of the possible economic consequences of the issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022944eb74b44424ccb93165a0b7189980c\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there would not be a detailed assessment of economic consequences until or unless there was a likelihood of a significant impact. At this stage there is no indication that the issue has escalated to the point where it could have that significant impact. Treasury advises that macroeconomic effects will depend largely on the extent of response from our international trading partners, and, of course, that is why we need to work so closely and transparently with our trading partners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d1724c2800746d9856df0002f6eaec3\u0022\u003EPaul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: What do financial market indicators suggest about the longer-term effects on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b44855f9087469fb89173c0cf3a4f62\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: In the last few days I think we saw initially, and understandably, some reaction both in the price of Fonterra shares and the New Zealand dollar, both of which declined. We will learn more tonight at the next global dairy trade auction. Prices for delivery later this year will provide an early indication of whether the market expects any longer-term effects. Important to avoiding any wider economic slow-down is, of course, to live up to our reputation as honest, open, transparent, and trusted operators of food safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227f649dbaac864f4095085a140e6e14b3\u0022\u003EGCSB, Review of Compliance\u2014Investigation into Leak and Prime Ministerial Responsibility\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u002279fae5ef2f45475f83783dd334376d5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279fae5ef2f45475f83783dd334376d5e\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u002276384e7f0b224c56b2d336d731162fc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276384e7f0b224c56b2d336d731162fc1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb733e14ea034f08870fac5c37849b8b\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his answers to this House on 31 July when he said: \u201C\u2026 the inquiry at no point asked for a journalist\u2019s records \u2026\u201D, given that the emails released on Friday evening show that phone access and email records of Andrea Vance were sought by the Henry inquiry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d00e7e2884b34ae682e809bba7b62449\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I stand by that and the fully corrected answer I gave. The member cut short my quote, which was: \u201C\u2026 either access records or phone records.\u201D I later went on and corrected my answer when I said that he did request them, meaning the access records.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218ebf7d315d94191b3e01c79e515ae16\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: When he said to the House on 31 July: \u201CI am more than happy to show the email traffic that supports the view of the Government.\u201D, why did he not table emails from 20 May that show that the Key-Henry inquiry sought both phone and email records for Andrea Vance and Peter Dunne?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221577279b64b94be4a755ffbf40ea67f3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am pretty sure the member is referring to emails that I did not have. They were the emails that came out later on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b0fb6a6d97e446ea3a808002842e935\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table three emails that refer to the correspondence between the head of the inquiry or the administrator of the inquiry and Parliamentary Service\u2014two on 20 May and two on 27 May\u2014which cover emails, phone logs, and swipe access card logs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250f2de048a3b4235b8f645ffbf6bc7e8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The easiest way is for me to put the leave. I understand that they may well be in the public arena, but I will put the leave. Is there any objection to those documents being tabled? There is objection. [Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d935696d247549fcbde46eef81ee0ef5\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he seek to blame a Parliamentary Service contractor for the release of email and phone records between Andrea Vance and Peter Dunne, when, in fact, those records were actually requested by the Key-Henry inquiry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f95ea0dcffd43c2b30156e2d5c98081\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member is confusing a number of different issues, but, in fact, it is quite correct. They were released by Parliamentary Service\u2019s operator.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f438af3c04844e5bfbd953130ce81f9\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister expect the House to believe that with all the questions and Official Information Act requests being made, his chief executive officer and his chief of staff did not inform him that the inquiry had requested and received the email and phone records of Peter Dunne and Andrea Vance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c879de485fe542f491c783d0ee764f6e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. In the case of my chief of staff, he was not aware of that until, I think, last Thursday night. I was made aware of it on the Friday. In the case of my chief executive officer, I have already publicly said that he knew about that a month earlier, and, arguably, he should have put that into the public domain earlier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfe2da9641c44e3c9ad37f562c7190ae\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the last answer, did Andrew Kibblewhite offer a briefing or was a briefing sought by the Prime Minister on what information was requested by the Key-Henry inquiry before last Friday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230e4218b0d3e4eccb2cafa19f00ff12d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, I did not seek a briefing, and the reason for that is that I set up the terms of reference, and the inquiry was run by Mr Henry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022866b516a64344c65a69fb9a26ba0d04f\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Can he guarantee to the House that the email correspondence between Andrea Vance and Peter Dunne was not opened by anyone in his office, his department, or his agency that he is responsible for?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259a1cd56e47249b6a211c6a76e6de16f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: That is the advice that I have received. The advice I have received is that when it was sent by Parliamentary Service, it was sent to an email system where it could not have been opened, and it was recalled within an hour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212147ffeb3724430a326a3e4b53e4c39\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the statement made by Steven Joyce that he accepts David Henry\u2019s word over that of Peter Dunne that he never said he wanted access to Mr Dunne\u2019s phone logs so as to compare them with Andrea Vance\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1b66166b546406db4f9eafd2cbde446\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not what I said, actually. Show me the actual quote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b89748a57e88416fa85cd485d141fe48\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: That is on The Nation, Mr Joyce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022800519a587f74824bba8f79a3aa58fba\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I would need to see the full statement by Mr Joyce because, as we just saw right before, Mr Shearer doctored a quote from me and conveniently left a bit out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220995685574f0476ab5dbb1ed2a2e4b6f\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Is the fact that he does not know about the emails from his chief of staff or his chief executive officer a result of the fact that he did not ask or was not told, or simply that he does not want to know the real questions and the real answers about the Henry inquiry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8bbac575b0f47c7a299fddf4fd65470\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is relatively simple. The inquiry was established under the authority of my name and was to be independently run by Mr Henry. If I was in this House now, answering some of the questions that the Leader of the Opposition wants me to answer, he would be saying that my mitts were all over it and it was not an independent inquiry. Some time ago he was saying that I did not try hard enough. Then, by the way, the Labour members were on the Privileges Committee. They are claiming to be holier than thou, but, by the way, they wanted Andrea Vance\u2019s emails. It is quite remarkable if we go through all of the events in this saga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022762b24517f924b63996642a27fa3cf0b\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Given that he cannot answer something as simple as that question, why should anyone trust him on his ability on behalf of New Zealanders to provide the oversight to the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB)?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fad93c98b344b1eb3c7399dfcd38e0f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is rather interesting, is it not, because on Sunday I happened to watch Q\u002BA\u2014actually, I have got to say, on display was the real leader of the Labour Party. Anyway\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222553c2cfd7434f818378a6519316fa04\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Just answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9b71625834f45b6a471e33b2a19766e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: As everyone will know, the oversight of the GCSB under the proposed legislation is a lot stronger than what was put in place under a Labour Government. We all know that the reason the Leader of the Opposition is not supporting the legislation is that he is having his string pulled by the muppet that is sitting next to him\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022523252db505d40cfa39ff56de94396c7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That was quite a sufficient answer. [Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277ce140f89e34e3eb153f61167a18efa\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is not becoming of the Prime Minister, in respect of this serious issue, to describe members of the Opposition as muppets. I would expect you, in the Chair, to protect the decorum of this place by calling the Prime Minister to order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206a985c39ac3434b83f2ad0135a7490b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member might want to have a look at the proceedings later on today to see that I immediately did call the Prime Minister to order. I thought that was quite sufficient. I am certainly not about to rule the word \u201Cmuppet\u201D out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259b8845321b34bad9759775520a1f834\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220417fb67d832437aa386e0878928289b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014[Interruption] Order! This is a point of order from the Hon Trevor Mallard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5932ad4e4a64c1b89f0c70ae820a968\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I am standing to agree with you. You did call the Prime Minister to order\u2014in fact, before he used that word\u2014when he headed in that direction. He ignored you, and you did not reprimand him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225392338d9a8b467f99f5ceca47890a17\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! No, I rose to my feet and tried to catch the Prime Minister\u2019s eye. I called \u201Cpoint of order\u201D to him, and it would be within seconds that he ceased his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276381f79f97c41aeb93ead3f24d25c61\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022489e4a2ca4cf41e783f732375e9b2087\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a fresh point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222ec881db99e4667b4871bce1a4ab27a\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It is a related point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4ce00208aa746edb204bfdda470abfc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Let us hear it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e3af3b1908a419ea4b4ac53ae2bb9cb\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: You called \u201COrder!\u201D. He is meant to be looking at you and listening to you. He took no notice. That is different from your account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f0eea1e4109411ebef96acbe4ad212f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. [Interruption] Order! On many, many occasions, when Ministers are giving answers, they often direct them to the person who asked the question. They do not necessarily spend the whole of their answer looking at the Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258765a8346204e65a167646418c7ad08\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Listen\u2014just listen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299f583e9ef414e3ab153ffebb003a7a3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member wants to stay in the House, he had better not suggest that I be listening. I am doing my very best.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022480dc2ae8d684d6a96acde76a908208e\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f610ad34a68b41898b3e71e60a3f2ecc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a fresh point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022972a85a6c372427982a7f630ae9a7497\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea82bb93edc24dacb905c6afe8544707\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If we are going to have more time-wasting that we are getting from the member, then he will not get to stay in the House. I will hear a fresh point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff7664a924cc40a4a9e6470d6975e149\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I want to apologise if I gave the impression that you were not listening. You were; the Prime Minister was not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd9d930b18324ba48f225a0a7d68d47a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am very pleased to accept that point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e41bd3d1c2bb41ccb011c1450e6ee3ba\u0022\u003EPolice\u2014Teina Pora Case\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022109b840cb96d447db70c9735bd564876\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022109b840cb96d447db70c9735bd564876\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E My question is to the Minister of Police. Is the Government taking any action in response to the unprecedented recommendation from the Police Association\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022512d2f53244f446d92208b37aeb2c663\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022512d2f53244f446d92208b37aeb2c663\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am sorry to interrupt the member. This question was transferred, so it is not to the Minister of Police. It is to the Minister of Justice. Would the member like to start his question again. It is to the Minister of Justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9af9fdef35547a1975d58d8a9983ffc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9af9fdef35547a1975d58d8a9983ffc\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Is the Government taking any action in response to the unprecedented recommendation from the Police Association to call for an independent inquiry into the conviction of Teina Pora; and does she agree with what President Greg O\u2019Connor describes as significant disquiet among police who are uncomfortable with the fact that Teina Pora is in prison for this crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022f189874d15964b8d9a7206fd5ec89de8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f189874d15964b8d9a7206fd5ec89de8\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E There are two legal avenues for Mr Pora. In 2011 he lodged an application with the Governor-General for the royal prerogative of mercy or a pardon. This application has been on hold as Mr Pora\u2019s lawyer wished to provide additional evidence to be considered. So that is still open. The second avenue is for Mr Pora to appeal to the Privy Council. The Privy Council may either quash Mr Pora\u2019s convictions or order a retrial, which could result in Mr Pora being found not guilty. Mr Pora\u2019s lawyer has advised that he intends to apply to the Privy Council and he is currently finalising papers for this. It is for the courts to decide whether a person is guilty of any crime\u2014not the Government. It would not be constitutionally appropriate for the Government to launch yet another Government inquiry into the police investigation or any other aspects of Mr Pora\u2019s convictions until Mr Pora has completed his legal options. If Mr Pora has new and compelling evidence, then that needs to be presented by his lawyer in the proper way to the proper authorities\u2014that is, to the courts or the Governor-General. The third avenue of inquiry that could be initiated by the Police Association or any other affected person, including Mr Pora, is to lodge a complaint with the Independent Police Conduct Authority, which exists for the purpose of independently inquiring into any allegations of police misconduct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226362a114f8c14ebbb09c5516a42a78ee\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I appreciate the explanation given by the Minister\u2014it was pretty full\u2014but I did ask a question around whose responsibility this is. She did explain that it fell within the avenues available to Mr Pora and, of course, to his supporters, but the question starts \u201CIs the Government taking any action \u2026\u201D. I am just seeking clarification as to whether the Government under the Minister\u2019s realm has any plans, has any action, can take any action, over this case. I am just seeking some clarification around that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7d2a81f3fb3473a869eae4179311a5a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister might like to elaborate, but it was pretty clear to me in the answer that the Minister was saying it is not the role of the Government at this stage because there are two other courses of action available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da4381668134465daef2b4167b1e6cd6\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I can add, I think. I am happy to add for the member\u2019s benefit that there already is an inquiry, and that is the inquiry under the royal prerogative of mercy, which is for a pardon. That inquiry has not progressed further since 2011 because Mr Pora\u2019s lawyer has said that he wants to present more evidence to it. Until he does, then it really cannot progress further. So there already is an inquiry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9981a67dce246eeb37ab355547cfad2\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Thanks to the Minister. What impact does she think the accumulated impact of the police conduct, the police investigation, and their very public call for an inquiry into the conviction of Teina Pora has on the general confidence and trust of New Zealanders in the justice system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022052bb611fab04c0abd97a4d2895bd7a7\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think it is a very good point that the member has raised. The fact is, though, that at the moment the ministry is administering 12 applications for pardons and three applications for compensation claims. So at any time\u2014and this is a pretty normal time in these matters\u2014we have 15 claims either for a pardon or for compensation. This is quite a publicly heard matter, but it is absolutely right in a democracy that people should be able to state what they think. If they want to and if they have concerns about any police conduct in Mr Pora\u2019s case, then I will repeat what I have said before today\u2014that they should make a complaint to the Independent Police Conduct Authority, which is the body that has statutory authority and power to investigate. I would suggest that if anyone has any genuine concerns, that is exactly what they should do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed51e0acea1e4daa845142caa1fbaece\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Given that neither an appeal to the Privy Council nor an application for the royal prerogative of mercy can deal with the serious allegations now being made about the police investigation and the handling of the case by the prosecuting counsel and that the Independent Police Conduct Authority cannot deal with both, does she not see that an inquiry into this matter is now urgently required? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e6cdadf75b24f9486ce37b8c056565d\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I believe that the member is getting ahead of himself. This matter still has an appeal right to the Privy Council and it also has an open application for a pardon. So the normal course of events would be that a complaint is made to the Independent Police Conduct Authority, which would normally deal with these matters post any court proceedings, which I think is the correct order. But also, if the member has any concerns as to the prosecution behaviour in terms of Crown Law, then I would have thought that a letter of complaint on those lines to the Attorney-General would be the correct course of action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022978a9bc0780b46c4b118d8f4ee1098ff\u0022\u003EGCSB, Review of Compliance\u2014Investigation into Leak and Release of Data\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u00220d807d271e4447f6bbc8ed945c1b02f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d807d271e4447f6bbc8ed945c1b02f1\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his answer to one of my supplementary questions on 31 July 2013 that \u201Cthe inquiry at no point asked for a journalist\u2019s records, either access records or phone records\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea99361da3214a2ebda103d016358b6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea99361da3214a2ebda103d016358b6e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I stand by my corrected answer. If the member reads the full transcript of that question, he will note that I later clarified my response to the member\u2019s supplementary question. In relation to the building access records I stated that \u201Che did request that.\u201D, meaning Mr Henry. I also stated that I thought it was wrong and that the inquiry should not have asked for that information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287f984980e2847c09e451113eb58758c\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: What about the phone records? Answer the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022febf726a076a4bd1ab4de03be1ed3f40\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: In relation to the phone records, the Henry inquiry did not request Miss Vance\u2019s records. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235a1b96625494d74a9a1dde5ce0ed546\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Prime Minister has now told us that Mr Henry did request the journalist\u2019s access records, is he concerned about the email sent by his chief of staff on 9 May, which asked Parliamentary Service to provide to the inquiry any relevant material requested, given that those access records were requested by the inquiry and the inquiry had the authority of his chief of staff to ask for them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a974ffbdfbd46769f466e14cf98d993\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have the emails with me, but, from memory, they state quite clearly \u201Cfor Ministers and staff\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df7d7249c7ac467597d98fdf57ba2575\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the email on 20 May goes from the inquiry to Parliamentary Service and specifically asks for all emails between Andrea Vance and Peter Dunne, is it not the case that the inquiry asked for the content, not just the metadata, of those emails, and it did so on the authority of his chief of staff?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed3c4fd9e4f54bc8a287a5c74179fb1d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: In relation to the second part of the question, no, it was not on the authority of my chief of staff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c55c30389ae64280890a3a96454f4181\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: How can it not have been on the authority of his chief of staff when his chief of staff wrote to Parliamentary Service on 9 May and asked Parliamentary Service to provide any relevant material requested by the inquiry and then the inquiry requested the material?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236a4e72e4dfb498ea162309caa4d8863\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Because the email on 9 May was in relation to Ministers and their staff, not journalists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a892500bf1434dbba33067172300388a\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Then, in reference to the email of 20 May from the inquiry to Parliamentary Service, it was asking for emails between Andrea Vance and Peter Dunne. Hence, does it not meet the criteria that he has just laid out? It was in relation to Ministers that the Henry inquiry sought the information, and hence it was authorised by the email from Mr Eagleson on 9 May asking Parliamentary Service to provide any information requested from the inquiry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d05924047dd24a59b2df84e0751196de\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, because what happened was the authorisation was in relation to metadata. When the actual contents of the emails were requested, that was the very point that my chief of staff made\u2014that, in fact, he was not authorised, he believed, to do that. He said he needed to ponder that for a day. He did so. He went back the next day and said: \u201CNo, I don\u2019t believe I have the authorisation to do that for a support party Minister.\u201D He referred it to Mr Dunne\u2019s office. Mr Dunne said that no, he would not release the content of the emails but he was happy to \u201Chave a discussion with Mr Henry\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d769e5250fd24590a7561b78a791dcab\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: In relation to that point, I seek leave to table the email trail that shows that it was a request for the content of the emails. This is the email of 20 May from the inquiry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022836d1431b1ce4e09b054d9c37ded7912\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I suspect that that email has been released, but I will put the question. Is there objection to that email trail being tabled? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229438a549817d4fdbb6d35483f62b6b26\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the Prime Minister\u2019s answer to Dr Norman\u2019s first supplementary question, I seek leave of the House to table an email from Monday, 20 May, timed at 5.53 p.m. where the inquiry seeks the phone logs between the listed extensions of Peter Dunne and the numbers of interest, being Andrea Vance to and from those\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b52050da4e074c6e9cd4676c2ef6a205\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that email. Is there any objection? Yes, there is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227604054c40dd49d59b62ae2a320f3aca\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the statement from David Henry in relation to the Henry inquiry, where he quotes: \u201CThe inquiry I led never requested the phone records of journalist Ms Andrea Vance. The inquiry reported the fact immediately the information was received.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f38e0c6692a4f728625a0deee369542\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288b7f6c016674269892c186987dbd323\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Can I seek an assurance from the Prime Minister that it has not been previously published?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f67b7e6f79224f94be661d6a92134a46\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member has the ability to deny leave if he so wants. The Prime Minister sought leave to table\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecc45b2d388e41d0a4368f1a8e2019b4\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You have, I think on at least three occasions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c2aedb3513c4275a7b4fc3757ac6358\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And I will do the same on this occasion. I assume that if it is a media release, it has probably been published, but, on the same basis as I have treated all the others, I will put leave to the House. Is there any objection to that particular statement from David Henry being tabled? There is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223369b474c4734be2818d45864d1bedc5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203f426f092e3423a9a45d44fd3cba3f2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283982d016fb745298b94ce6d4257ec06\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Robertson concluded his last submission to the House by talking about the Prime Minister lying. That usually is found to be an offence in this House by all manner of members, including the person who is the subject of the allegation. Of course, it does not happen when it is true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255e5d7e71641400c8e941c5f7e064c20\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I do not believe that we are getting a point of order on this occasion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d6b670437fd43e0b7a37b6ae7a2ed09\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he said it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e4fa828b1564800a06224aa4969c75c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! If the member also wants to stay for the balance of question time, he is quite OK to raise legitimate points of order, but raising points of order either to waste time or to make political statements will not be tolerated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022822866525b0044528559ee1d253845d0\u0022\u003EDairy Products, Whey Protein\u2014Contamination Incident and Safety of Infant Formula\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u00222755cc71adaf4f839734932b95e45a26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222755cc71adaf4f839734932b95e45a26\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Food Safety: What information can she provide to the public regarding the safety of infant formula?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0d0b7e7ac744e2bb84be729326424b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0d0b7e7ac744e2bb84be729326424b1\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (Minister for Food Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Ministers have been advised that Nutricia has voluntarily recalled a number of its products to ensure that potentially affected stock is off the shelves until there can be complete confidence as to whether or not these products are contaminated. Last night Nutricia initiated a voluntary recall of Karicare Stage 1 New Baby Infant Formula from birth, and Karicare Gold\u002B Stage 2 Follow-on Formula from 6 months. The Government welcomes Nutricia\u2019s decision. Now that there is a definitive recall across the two product lines, the Ministry for Primary Industries is assisting Nutricia to ramp up public information. This includes national advertising of a statutory recall notice: radio advertising, social networking advertising, and online advertising. People can get information and advice from Healthline, PlunketLine, and the Ministry for Primary Industries consumer helpline. The Ministry for Primary Industries is continuing to work round the clock on this issue. Parents and caregivers should continue to regularly check the Ministry for Primary Industries website for any updates, and call Healthline and PlunketLine if they have any health concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7f7e78e5d9a464da58415e770474e2e\u0022\u003EKatrina Shanks\u003C/span\u003E: What are the main actions the Government has taken to address the immediate issues raised with regard to the safety of infant formula?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fee85e6c9c034a42848e41c47e56c51b\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE\u003C/span\u003E: Some of the actions that we have been taking include placing officials from the Ministry for Primary Industries at Fonterra sites in Auckland, Hamilton, and Australia to verify information and to obtain a complete picture of the products and locations affected by the contamination. Ministry officials have conducted a physical check of the plant in the Waikato to confirm the pipe suspected of causing the contamination has been changed. A ministerial response team has been established for a whole-of-Government approach on this issue, and we have been meeting regularly. Ministers have spoken with food and grocery industry representative members, and have been assured that they have no immediate concerns about the ability to supply existing alternative infant formula. Ministers have also been advised that the industry is putting in place arrangements to secure the ongoing supply of alternative infant formula products. From a public health perspective, health officials have been an active part of the response team. The Director-General of Health has been working closely with the Director-General of the Ministry for Primary Industries. There has been increased surveillance for any symptoms that could possibly result from exposure of this bacteria. The surveillance has been in district health board baby units, paediatric wards, and general practices. I am also advised that the Ministry of Health has utilised its system of conveying urgent messages to general practices. This has been a whole-of-Government response. Ministers and agencies are working round the clock to ensure that the public are protected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220dc838a9381e49b1bc1b0d95001b134e\u0022\u003EHousing, Affordable\u2014Investment Properties, First-home Buyers, and Mortgages\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00229eae6b7549bf4babb5f4c532fde4098b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229eae6b7549bf4babb5f4c532fde4098b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with the Reserve Bank that house price inflation in our largest city Auckland is \u201Crapid\u201D; if so, what is the Government doing to deal with the demand and price pressures caused by speculators?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00226ec44dd94e5c446f93097118f3d84703\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ec44dd94e5c446f93097118f3d84703\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do agree with the Reserve Bank, but I do not agree with the member\u2019s habit of calling everyone who wants to buy a house a speculator; many buyers, if not most, are not. Of course, speculators who buy and sell houses with the aim of making a profit are already required to pay tax on any capital gains. In addition, the Government has significantly tightened tax rules for property owners and investors, and provided the Inland Revenue Department with extra resources to enforce those tax rules. These moves are expected to raise $700 million to $800 million of extra tax on property investment every year, which is far in excess of any estimates of capital gains tax. The Government is focusing, though, as a top priority on the supply of houses. As outlined by the Productivity Commission, regulatory restrictions on the supply of new housing and new land in the Christchurch and Auckland markets is a significant driver of the increases in prices. The Government is also focusing on reducing the delays and costs of Resource Management Act processes, improving the timely provision of infrastructure, and working with the construction sector to lift its low levels of productivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276e1928d8c674fdf8000909483f0a3a0\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Would a capital gains tax excluding the family home dampen demand from the owners of multiple numbers of houses\u2014if you do not like the word \u201Cspeculators\u201D\u2014given that 40 percent of Auckland homes are no longer owner-occupied?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022941c97bf2bcb4115bef06113edf10379\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The \u201Cowners of multiple homes\u201D would refer to a significant number of New Zealanders, and many of them would not regard themselves as speculators.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228245e1d6491f4f60a722cceb90860235\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: David Shearer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260124ad112c24069ae7ca830952c90ff\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, David Shearer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022864a1ac5158c4016b11601a6f675ebc7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b34a81d5b4247349fdff089089b2b49\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and maybe others. Australia has that kind of capital gains tax, and it has made no difference. Australia also has restrictions on foreign buyers, and it has a less affordable housing market than New Zealand. That is why we are focusing on mechanisms such as the housing accord with Auckland Council, targeting the construction of 39,000 new houses in Auckland over the next 3 years. We are also about to pass legislation\u2014hopefully, with the support of Labour\u2014giving the Government the capacity to speed up consenting, so that we can get more houses on the ground faster in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfc004ff140948c5ac39210c822b4231\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Did he make representations to the Reserve Bank to exempt Kiwi first-home buyers from loan-to-value ratio restrictions; if so, why did he not include such an exemption as a condition of loan-to-value ratios when he gave the Reserve Bank the power to use them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022644945a61bea48758a14afbc4aa7afa1\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Reserve Bank, in the end, will make the decisions about loan-to-value ratios. The Government has been consulted and has put the point of view that was articulated by the Prime Minister publicly several weeks ago. I would say this: in the same way that the member speaks of having a capital gains tax that exempts most houses, the Reserve Bank has raised the issue of the challenge of having restrictions on low-deposit loans, which might exclude most people with a low deposit. The question for the Reserve Bank is how to make that kind of intervention effective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022123143aa1da347efb4bd5efc93046f74\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Government think it is fair to give preference to overseas house buyers over Kiwi first-home buyers by shutting first-home buyers out via loan-to-value ratios, while leaving overseas property speculators free rein to buy and make tax-free capital gains?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4e9df43a86e4315bdd73af173214b3e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I simply do not agree with the member\u2019s premises. In any case, whatever happens with loan-to-value ratios, the real driver of house prices is restriction of supply of houses. Auckland needs 13,000 houses a year, and it is getting 4,000. It does not really matter whether people are first-home buyers, long-term investors in housing, or owners of family homes; all their interests will be served by more houses on the ground faster, and lower interest rates than would otherwise be the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228c034624be4540d3887bd60033148f12\u0022\u003EDairy Products, Whey Protein\u2014International Response to Contamination Incident\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u002298d86a5f53e74276afc8bd15869e48e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298d86a5f53e74276afc8bd15869e48e1\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Trade: What reports has he received of international reactions to the potential contamination of whey protein concentrate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022 data-id=\u002213d719cfc89b4fd09658951e3415b36b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213d719cfc89b4fd09658951e3415b36b\u0022\u003EHon TIM GROSER (Minister of Trade):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand posts in affected markets are continuing to liaise with authorities and to share information with them as the extent of the contamination comes to hand. Governments are reacting in exactly the way we would expect, and most are taking a very measured approach. We have to recognise that the situation is fluid and that new import restrictions and new testing requirements may be introduced at any time. But today, as I am answering this question, of the eight potentially affected markets, only one has applied a suspension of imports. That is China, and China has been very measured in that response. It has suspended the importation of whey protein and dairy-based powder manufactured by Fonterra, including Australian-produced products using Fonterra whey powder protein as an ingredient. I would just like to add, for members here, that the phrase \u201Cdairy-based powder\u201D is a little misleading to anyone who is not a technical expert. It does not include our major powder exports. Clarification on this point by the Deputy Prime Minister earlier has indicated that it is actually a very small part of our total dairy exports that has been affected so far by the Chinese authorities\u2019 legitimate decision. But, of course, because it is a fluid situation and it may well change, we are keeping this under the closest possible review. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EThe Governments of Malaysia, Thailand, Viet Nam, Singapore, Australia, and Saudi Arabia, and the authorities in the separate customs territory of Hong Kong are keeping the situation under review, as you would expect them to. Contrary to some earlier reports, I am advised today that there is presently no import ban on New Zealand products in place in Russia, which is different advice than we received only yesterday. Our overseas posts are working very closely with the host Governments and the authorities and regulators concerned to ensure that these countries have as full information as possible to protect the health of their children. I understand the Viet Namese, Singaporean, and Russian Governments have undertaken precautionary recalls\u2014not import bans, but recalls\u2014of potentially affected product. Danone has undertaken precautionary recalls of potentially affected product in Malaysia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb88616dca5347aeb79f7b119b186780\u0022\u003EIan McKelvie\u003C/span\u003E: What measures will the Government be taking to reassure overseas markets and consumers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d6a5c6c86534220beb76a87964df928\u0022\u003EHon TIM GROSER\u003C/span\u003E: All efforts are currently focused on the job at hand, which is consumer health both at home and overseas, as the Prime Minister and other Ministers have previously explained. Once we have worked through those issues by locating and quarantining all potentially affected product, we will then begin the critical task of restoring the trust and confidence of our overseas markets in the New Zealand supply chain. I would just like to reiterate the fundamental point that the Prime Minister has made, which is that we have over 100 years of experience in delivering high-quality, safe food to consumers in multiple countries, and that is the base to which we will return. How we, Fonterra, and the other dairy companies that we are in close contact with manage this situation in the weeks and months ahead will clearly determine how well we recover from it. The whole of Government is focused on this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002279f6b04f5dc14a8f984f3606c9e7d80d\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014Hospital Referrals and Aged Residential Care\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u002226482e71c77c4128b89d9dd5b6a0f072\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226482e71c77c4128b89d9dd5b6a0f072\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Labour\u2014Rongotai)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he take responsibility for the health outcomes from his policies; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1b949992be14f73b291c6b756626b56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1b949992be14f73b291c6b756626b56\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E As Minister I take responsibility for the overall performance of the New Zealand public health service, including responsibility for the big increase of over 37,000 extra patients who have received first specialist assessments under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022235b741898594f7f99304c8b18c7364f\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Does he take responsibility for district health boards that are once again this year sending letters to general practitioner clinics saying that due to the current resources available and increased demands, they will be accepting only urgent referrals to the hospital, something that in March in Parliament he claimed did not reflect what was happening; and is he aware that general practitioners are now reporting that patients with significant impairment and pain are not getting timely treatment, and are saying that the real number of patients waiting to be seen is being hidden?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a0c86f368ac4f7db0fe59f550412bff\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I would have to say, to any of those claims that the real number of patients being hidden is what is going on, that it is not correct. That member will recall that in fact it was her party opposite that slashed 36,000 people from waiting lists in order to hide the true number of people waiting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220003961645ff459b8bf3a5f7bf8ffd6a\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter from the Hutt Valley District Health Board to general practitioner clinics, saying that it will accept only urgent referrals. This is under his watch\u2014it is nothing to do with 8 years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022652f0ea8135d446ab761076a99668e23\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Leave is sought to table that particular document. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be so tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222434f93a54844d6980514e26196826e1\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter from a general practitioner clinic saying that their patients have significant impairment and pain because they have been denied timely treatment, and that the stopping of the referral of these patients hides the real numbers\u2014under his watch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253d622bc62ab463fb9d6aa3600960e42\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that particular letter from a general practitioner clinic. Is there any objection? There appears to be none. It can be so tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226382c7849f64ab3b24c1357f9b6c3eb\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Does he take any responsibility for Mrs Holland, of Hawke\u2019s Bay, who has received a letter telling her that she cannot be seen because of current resources and capabilities, even though she keeps falling over and is permanently on a walking stick; or Mrs Bennett, of MidCentral, who has been refused an appointment because only urgent referrals are being accepted, even though she is unable to walk more than a few steps; or Mr Greenwood, from Capital and Coast, who has been refused an appointment and has been forced to stay on a sickness benefit for 2\u00BD years? These are just some of the growing numbers of cases emerging under 5 years of his stewardship. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1141837fdc74432b17163d2964a7338\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I would have to see the full story behind those claims, because I am aware that that member made a claim of a large number of people who were missing out on services of the district health boards, on the basis of a doctored Official Information Act request that she then had to apologise for, for the claims that she had made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235d0a9d25d97447a9e702eeed6b9a0fa\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the amended numbers of colonoscopies from South Canterbury that the Minister is talking about. They had to amend them because they made the mistake, not me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217384da72a614fe19fd51b142b52befe\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! What is the source of the document the member is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226039254c606748898bf9db182ff62504\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: It is a report from the South Canterbury District Health Board to me, to correct their mistake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5fa192b31e740bd9fc9c837bb2efd95\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Leave is sought to table that particular report from the South Canterbury District Health Board. Is there any objection? There appears to be none. It can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d53c0439ec547da96a6a89d714e3115\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an Official Information Act response to Mrs King from the South Canterbury District Health Board, which shows the numbers were changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e102e047928e4e14a2d6a50f7692774d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that particular document. [Interruption] Order! Would the member please resume his seat. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be so tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022576c207a58d34634a9df9497e655f953\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Does he take responsibility for the shocking health outcome for an elderly woman in a retirement village hospital in Wellington who was found covered in faeces on three separate occasions, care that was called disgusting by her daughter, because he has failed to implement recommendations from three significant reports into the care of the elderly\u2014all released under his watch; his 5 years as Minister\u2014which included recommendations around low wages paid to carers, around training, and around staffing levels?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225666f270da034d22bbe427d4a465fa13\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I was shocked and appalled to see the level of that care being provided in that facility and it is simply completely unacceptable. The Government has put $184 million extra into aged residential care, and what I can tell that member is that I am interested she is now suggesting there should be minimum staffing ratios in rest homes, because, when she was Minister, she ruled that out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caa036bb881444aa9e5806e20b70a7c5\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd8f19c53fcd422b8a8d4c61bd921f91\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I have a point of order. It will be heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a8455fa6ee34cd28195f22b0c3107dd\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Human Rights Commission report\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227596d23f86d4c0c88b6627ed9844de1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That report will be available to all members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227542d9bc569f494a83af0a7f933816d0\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Audit Office report about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c55af05e5d2146d4be49076a026abc62\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member is now starting to waste the time of this House by attempting to table documents that are available to any\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e350fefd2e2e4859afae043c2f3f36cf\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: He hasn\u2019t read them, has he?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223b8906a345548229b71cf633514bae9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! If the member also wants to stay for the balance of question time she needs to be careful about points of order that she raises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f709f778bbf147ae9c09af77bb6f87fb\u0022\u003EDairy Products, Whey Protein\u2014Response to Contamination Incident\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002254627070a17d4ac48ceef8539d2f70b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254627070a17d4ac48ceef8539d2f70b1\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E My question\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2a751a645f4405a9b918bbbf6144a37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2a751a645f4405a9b918bbbf6144a37\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Would the Minister please\u2014[Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00224aca3afba46d429e9a883d3088c4b3c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224aca3afba46d429e9a883d3088c4b3c4\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Primary Industries: What response has he received from the primary sector on the potential whey protein contamination issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u002201670210334d44a28b4c73f17f50bfdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201670210334d44a28b4c73f17f50bfdc\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Minister for Primary Industries):\u003C/span\u003E I have briefed a wide range of people from across the sector including industry bodies such as the Dairy Companies Association of New Zealand and Federated Farmers. The response has been consistent. Food safety is a top priority for New Zealand and we need to do what we can to assure New Zealanders and our export markets that we are taking this very seriously. The industry groups have expressed disappointment that this has happened, but are committed to doing what they can to assure New Zealanders and overseas markets that, as an exporting food nation, we treat food safety issues very seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fe6f04794c94d09ab52c96dfcfa125f\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What messages has the Minister given to the sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5449f2b91914d8ab65dcf3e040723a4\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: I have reiterated to industry groups that this issue is the top priority for the Government. Our first priority is, of course, the safety of New Zealanders and our international consumers. I have also updated the sector on the actions I, my ministerial colleagues, and officials have taken since learning of this issue. This includes the Ministry for Primary Industries sending staff into Fonterra\u2019s data and distribution centres and Nutricia\u2019s warehouses with their permission to verify information and to obtain a complete picture of the products and locations affected by the potentially contaminated product. I have given the ministry a clear message that no resource is to be spared with this response, to ensure the health and safety of New Zealanders and our international consumers. Primary industries are crucial to the New Zealand economy and it is vital that we have a strong reputation internationally as producers of safe food.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b362eeb809004d66a1f352383c5c2957\u0022\u003EState Housing\u2014Vacant Properties\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00228da65155ec934572bb6dc29f3b1d4708\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228da65155ec934572bb6dc29f3b1d4708\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: What is the number of Housing New Zealand houses which are currently vacant as a proportion of the total Housing New Zealand stock?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022337dd812dc65484ebe28dc4cb6919ac2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022337dd812dc65484ebe28dc4cb6919ac2\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Of the 68,913 homes, 390, or 0.6 percent, are vacant and available to be tenanted. About half of these at any time are under not offer, but not yet let or occupied. A good example of this is the house Mr Shearer was photographed peering into last Thursday. One thousand and fifty-three, or 1.5 percent, are vacant because they are earthquake prone or under earthquake repairs; 248, or 0.36 percent, are under redevelopment; 1,301 have repairs under way; 545, or 0.8 percent, are vacant pending sale; and 60, or 0.1 percent, are vacant for miscellaneous reasons such as being ex-P labs, fire damage, or because they are awaiting demolition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dac5aa15b95a4eeb90a24615f4956b28\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked the Minister, in a question that was set down, what is the number of houses that are currently vacant. We heard a catalogue of subcategories; I asked for the number that are vacant, and he did not answer the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da668e8bbc834226a6bf122a3592282e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am absolutely sure that the Minister included that number, but if the Minister did not include that number, could he do so. [Interruption] The Minister says that he did. The member has a further supplementary question. [Interruption] Order! Does the member have a further supplementary question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022064078967a9141c5b533070e33f8a8fe\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked for the number of houses that are vacant. I got a catalogue of\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ecf8c2b20034c568c5a61ac8af54fec\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! We are having some assistance from the Minister, the Hon Dr Nick Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd41894674174403be790a4ae40645a0\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The issue is that a lot of State houses are vacant today, because\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229090d91c62541bcb3b5f6881200a785\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am allowing the Minister to speak to this point of order to try to assist in getting the answer. If members are going to object, it is clear that they are not interested in the explanation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228384b74870a544798f03c42fa294db13\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The issue is that lots of houses, for instance today, are vacant because the tenants are out at work or out doing training. \u201CVacant\u201D is a very broad definition. That is why I provided detailed information to the member. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d7c90715af041d3a1013df900d92237\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I will hear from the member his point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c604508ef7204cec92e33be18307cd73\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: It was a question that was set down. The language was very precise and very simple. I asked for the number of vacant houses, not a catalogue of subtotals and subcategories. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022155cce1f426a4befae65bd6f5e4bef1c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I have listened carefully to the points of order that have been raised. I have listened to the question. I have listened to the answer. The best way forward on this occasion is that I will allow the member an additional supplementary question if he so requires.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286030e81df9a40e28bf5b8b7ead43a9b\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: What is the number of Housing New Zealand houses which are currently vacant as a proportion of the total Housing New Zealand stock? Currently vacant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eee8b938bd824d3bb370bd099e9eee6b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, a property can be vacant for lots of reasons. The important figure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022019be227edb64aceae08f7b1bb3afcad\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aafdf49103b7465db657e678a582b30d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fef32806ef824d95bd52781c9f52c37b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the important figure\u2014is houses that are vacant and are ready to be tenanted. That number is 390, or 0.6 percent. It is true that there are some houses that are being demolished. It is also true that some houses have been wrecked by earthquakes. They too are vacant, but it is a nonsense to include them in the member\u2019s message about vacant properties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022769fe2e11f97489892b88b45c4fe7622\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221703732d42194e5a8f8b50a4c656cf27\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I have a point of order from the Hon Trevor Mallard, but just before I accept the point of order, I want to be fair to the member. I have said that if he\u2014and there are two other members\u2014raises points of order that are not legitimate, I will be asking the member to leave the House. On this occasion this will not be occurring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022413f17aeae9d4e8d9cbd1198cf41eb20\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: No, I understand that I am under extreme prejudice. The question that was asked both as a primary question, and the essence of it, as a supplementary question\u2014and the primary question was set down\u2014asked about the number that are currently vacant. It did not ask whether that was a good question or whether some other question should have been asked, and my view is that the Minister should have come to the House with that number and the proportion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251d592e9d978489094465fea2ce613b1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is a very legitimate point of order that has been raised by the member. I may well agree with the member, but on this occasion I am not responsible for the answer. I gave the member an additional supplementary question, so he reused it to ask exactly the same primary question. The Minister has chosen to answer it in the way that he has. I can move this matter no further forward except to invite Mr Twyford to continue his line of questioning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7feabb05f3943c0a6e7e8a67282ee5e\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a communication from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment that shows that 3,703 vacant properties are held by Housing New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d311568223f4ce9b480e4c78eddf609\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that particular communication. Is there objection? There is none. It can be so tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022530a5dfcb88e44009ac2de1582a7befa\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question, Phil Twyford. [Interruption] Order! I have called Phil Twyford.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227973f700e8f44d2a67ee67b408d3e0d\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the offers and repairs process allowing approximately 1,700 properties classified as \u201Clettable\u201D by Housing New Zealand to be vacant, an increase of more than 200 since January 2012?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cba119d383a647189f91c3416680e5cb\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: For very good reason. The previous Government significantly underspent on maintenance. We are spending on average $5,000 on the repairs to houses at the time that they become vacant and before they are further let. For that reason, I would much rather re-let a quality property than one that was in the run-down mess left by the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c576db80631a4fe7b192e299a5bd8014\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Given his statement that there are 1,200 homes empty for minor repairs, what definition of minor repair is he using, and is he happy that 1,200 tenants, many of them families, have been moved out of their homes, often into overcrowded and substandard housing, simply because of minor repairs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2ae65a39f7f46998389444d7ff1836c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Let me make the issue of minor repairs clear: three-quarters of the properties that become vacant have to have $5,000 or more spent on them. We can have an academic argument about whether $5,000 is minor or not; I am actually quite proud of the fact that this Government is going to spend $2.9 billion over the next 3 years making sure that we have got houses of some quality that I would be happy to have a family in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286f6d094ebe24dfe9af506e085b55928\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7bee7f157084704b2a914268ff13089\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just check whether the member has had the additional supplementary question. The member has had not only his share but the additional one that I generously gave him earlier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e8f532d9bed741bdae76410829f000e1\u0022\u003EQuestions to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229672c6e288a24809af5e8c30963af5fe\u0022\u003EReserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill (No 2)\u2014Purpose and Commentary\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249e51de36da049c785bca5b9ee73b204\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Member in charge of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill (No 2): Is it his intention to proceed with the first reading of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill (No 2); if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00225f87da130685498fb76e72effda856f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f87da130685498fb76e72effda856f3\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Member in charge of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill (No 2)):\u003C/span\u003E Undoubtedly yes, because the Reserve Bank needs a much wider range of counter-inflationary measures, rather than the crude, blunt tool favoured by the incumbent Government. It needs tools\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb5a088cd11c4754aa3567ec34daa0b1\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Brought in when that member was Treasurer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261f4d88c00d14455b1a271e6def6beeb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245bc02fa57cb4a76ab1ee14fdc472e56\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to combat the inflow of hot money, much wider than the last policy targets agreement, which was changed by the National Party - New Zealand First Government in 1996 and then promptly ignored by the next National Party leader, Don Brash, and it needs tools to create a stable, competitive exchange rate, paying regard to the fact that we are an export-dependent economy. All of those will be fresh news for Gerry Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288a94d7278c34f3d9d9723785da6f8ca\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any reports from economists on this question; if so, what did they say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233b8a6a591c84510824f36255d798314\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The reality is that all those economists who are concerned about this country\u2019s future and who understand this country\u2019s history\u2014like, for example, Business and Economic Research Ltd\u2014have been very supportive of this measure. Then, of course, you have got the other lot, who are dependent upon the insurance companies and banks in overseas ownership for their future livelihood. They tend to favour a currency run for the few\u2014and very few\u2014against the dynamic majority interest of provincial New Zealand and exporters and workers for exporters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bceb22f66c6c4039aa2bfb3cd27b63b3\u0022\u003EElectricity (Renewable Preference) Amendment Bill\u2014Purpose\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc1bbd69db514edcb5dab1abd26610ba\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Member in charge of the Electricity (Renewable Preference) Amendment Bill: Is it her intention to proceed with the first reading of the Electricity (Renewable Preference) Amendment Bill; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u0022cfd6801ce18e44aaa4499204f2db9999\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cfd6801ce18e44aaa4499204f2db9999\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Member in charge of the Electricity (Renewable Preference) Amendment Bill):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, it absolutely is my intention to proceed with the first reading of the Electricity (Renewable Preference) Amendment Bill, and the reason that I want to proceed is that this bill is an important first step to meeting the current Government\u2019s two targets: firstly, that 90 percent of our electricity generation be from renewable resources by 2025; and, secondly, the National Government\u2019s target of a 50 percent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. This bill is an important first step in introducing a range of measures that will help us to meet those targets. Currently, we are not on track to meet those targets. The Hon Gerry Brownlee has indicated the importance of this bill when he said on the repeal of this measure, which the previous Labour Government put in place, that in fact what we needed was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223260f045d04c44ae96e99dd37709f467\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I invite the member, before she prepares for her next question, if there is one, to look at Standing Order 383.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6fefb347370443492e9f7d5120d8063\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: What would the impact of the bill be on the renewable energy sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291342b8b0cda4107be8394905a2d93d6\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: The impact is very, very important, indeed. The best thing we could do for the renewable energy sector would be to have an adequate price on carbon. As of this morning, that price on carbon was 50c. The Hon Gerry Brownlee highlighted the importance of this bill when he said: \u201CReducing carbon emissions in the electricity sector remains a goal, and renewable technology will be encouraged through the Emissions Trading Scheme,\u201D and \u201CNational believes that investment decisions in the electricity sector should be made on the basis of sound economics, with environmental effects taken into account through a price on carbon.\u201D Labour agrees with that. We do not currently have an adequate price on carbon. That is why this member\u2019s bill is entirely appropriate and necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cdd2d8b6530948969e008c68433ddaf9\u0022\u003EParental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill\u2014Submissions Received\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c1c090aad594923b374426c752792fb\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Government Administration Committee: How many submissions were received on the Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002226f1d97ba78a4852aedf01e67141bb2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226f1d97ba78a4852aedf01e67141bb2a\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Chairperson of the Government Administration Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Submissions on the Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill opened on 1 August 2012 and submissions on that bill closed on 5 October 2012. At the first meeting after this date, the Government Administration Committee was advised that the bill had attracted a total of 2,710 submissions. That may seem like a large number, but the member in whose name the bill is sponsored indicated to the committee that her understanding was that the number was lower than it should have been\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222376277265af406cabd97e1de9779d65\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member has satisfactorily addressed the question with the answer\u2014[Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b19175a438143f5b9aa37b28488229e\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have not finished, because it is not the answer to the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228db1945de4f24e6899c0d05bb13a2f5e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: But I am inviting the member, and all other members who have questions to answer today, to look carefully at Standing Order 383. That question asked for the number of submissions that have been received. That number was given by the member as 2,700. Am I wrong in saying that? [Interruption] Well, then I will certainly hear from the Hon Ruth Dyson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb2224f8123240c98668487ee110c245\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker, and the reason that I am saying that is that it is a very unusual situation in relation to the number of submissions that we originally were told were received, and the final answer to the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220496a10b25d54e6084355b744651accc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if the member would concisely summarise that for the benefit of the House, I would be grateful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de518ef25f8341fc91f2d925136f5f56\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I will try my best, Mr Speaker. The member in whose name the bill is sponsored challenged that number of submissions and then went back to an umbrella organisation called 26 for Babies. As a result of those inquiries with that organisation, which is set up to support the bill, it was discovered that a large number of submissions that were sent through the 26 for Babies website to the committee did not actually arrive on the committee\u2019s website. The committee resolved at a later meeting that it had been demonstrated that these submissions had been sent by the due date, but had not been received through no fault of the submitters, and that we would therefore accept them as being received by the due date. An investigation into the reason for that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227818e90b9e984a2db4fc81db3deb8895\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That answer is now miles too long and I warn all other members who are going to be answering questions to adhere to the Standing Orders. Is there a supplementary question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fbc019eec2a44a98444d1d2d31765dd\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I certainly accept that in this particular case that was a particularly long answer. However, earlier in question time today, in answer to questions put forward by Phil Twyford, the Hon Dr Nick Smith put forward a very, very long answer cataloguing a wide range of different variables in relation to the primary question. In fact, when we raised the point of order with you, suggesting that we actually just wanted the answer to the question, you, in fact, allowed him to continue giving that answer. I just want to be sure that we are going to have a consistent standard here. I accept that Ruth Dyson\u2019s was a long answer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201a9d5dad60047ef81ee3fcd1a91db16\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I have heard enough from the member. If the member is now accusing me of being inconsistent, I will take that very seriously indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a6bca6f6915497ba3e13272cda7e6d8\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do have a supplementary question, but in order to ask my supplementary question, I need the answer to my question. It was not the answer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c4e949f7fd140938404c8910531ae08\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! If the member wants to ask a supplementary question, I will give her one further chance, otherwise we are moving to the next question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b0ac18592ed4137b872494a83b8471c\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: What was the final number of submissions received, then, by the committee, given her previous answer, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208f3550e9435414283e3a5009b85326a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is quite a sufficient supplementary question. What was the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c13d71e4506641c4ab7636377f622a1a\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022047ca664b0154f779bddc23bf649a137\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I warn the member that if it is a satisfactory and fresh point of order that does not in any way\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a11e4a0b896643b99160bbbc56670e3a\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It is an absolutely new point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b18c40f9eb84f8bb6d6a6645a0bf9d6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will listen to it with interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235d92538c38242f2a576b6e0ea04927a\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Members have the right to ask supplementary questions with two legs. That is a standard process and it applies to both these members\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224aafc93676b84fb1bae47ce1ab746575\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I need no further advice. I have received advice that supplementary questions should have only one leg. The member has asked a supplementary question. Would the Hon Ruth Dyson please answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227845a52ae8a24ce2b0b979b77d3bc5ae\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I certainly will. There were no submitters out of the total who were opposed to the bill. There were seven who proposed changes or delay in the implementation of the legislation. That was 0.183 percent of the total submissions, which were 126 unique submissions and 3,683 form submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226da941188e534078aed69c8996169337\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just want to seek clarification from you, with relation to your last ruling. Is that only in relation to supplementary questions to members or does that apply also to supplementary questions to Ministers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228cc10918a08439ebb8f19a32b939f5c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is a general rule. I refer the member to Speaker\u2019s ruling 169/4: \u201CA supplementary question should contain only one question.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229d655253b3814edab2f2bd715e7b642b\u0022\u003EGambling (Gambling Harm Reduction) Amendment Bill\u2014Purpose\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb0db0406d584683b178d639ad07f56f\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Member in charge of the Gambling (Gambling Harm Reduction) Amendment Bill: Is it his intention to proceed with the committee stage of the Gambling (Gambling Harm Reduction) Amendment Bill; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u002247e35bff768446518fd5552ed369b05b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247e35bff768446518fd5552ed369b05b\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (Member in charge of the Gambling (Gambling Harm Reduction) Amendment Bill):\u003C/span\u003E Hei whakautu i te p\u0101tai, \u0101e. Ka anga whakamua t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire ki t\u0101 te w\u0101 o te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori e p\u012Brangi nei. Ka mutu, he aha ai? Na runga i te mea, ko ng\u0101 huarahi katoa e ngau kino nei i te hunga rawakore, ka whaia e te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori ki t\u014Dna mutunga. M\u0113n\u0101 he painga an\u014D r\u0101 o roto i t\u0113nei pire, ki t\u0101 m\u0101tau, \u0101e, he painga an\u014D r\u0101, ka whaia ki t\u014Dna mutunga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[To answer the question, yes. This bill will move forward to a point in time desired by the M\u0101ori Party. And, furthermore, why? Based on the fact that all avenues that affect those who are underprivileged will be pursued by the M\u0101ori Party to their conclusion. If there is any benefit at all in this bill, and we say yes, there is, we will follow it through to its conclusion.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f93785625a346128ace8089eac12e8d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Is it his intention to strengthen the harm reduction aspect of his bill by accepting an amendment to have a \u201Cpokie pause\u201D for 4 or 5 hours each morning, similar to the one that the House supported in relation to alcohol, because the House saw that this was a useful way to overcome addiction and abuse; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdf1a1997d0f454eb77d47d308013774\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: I t\u0113nei w\u0101, k\u0101o. K\u0101ore an\u014D t\u0113r\u0101 momo k\u014Drero kia whakatakotohia ki mua i te aroaro o te Whare P\u0101remata. M\u0113n\u0101 he t\u0101piritanga k\u014Drero t\u0113r\u0101 pea ka \u0101ta tirohia \u0113ngari i te mea, k\u0101ore au i kite i runga i te t\u0113pu, ka mutu, k\u0101ore an\u014D au kia rongo m\u014D t\u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 momo huarahi, ka mutu, o kore m\u0101tou e tautoko.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[At this point in time, no. That kind of statement has not come before the House of Parliament. If it was a supplementary one it might be examined, but, because I have not seen it on the table and, furthermore, heard about those kinds of avenues, we will not support it eventually.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f5fc2998cd1d4c619343417e4b9c88e5\u0022\u003EPoint of Order\u2014Supplementary Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00224a1d41ac615442ada644176b042c8e1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a1d41ac615442ada644176b042c8e1e\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You referred me earlier to the Speakers\u2019 rulings. I have now had a chance to look at them, and I just want some clarification from you with regard to Speakers\u2019 ruling 169/6 on the same page. In this case it is to do with questions to Ministers, but it equally, presumably, applies to questions to members. Speakers\u2019 ruling 169/6 states: \u201C(1) Ministers need address only one of the questions contained in supplementary questions. (2) If members ask multiple questions, they run the risk of Ministers answering the parts that they regard as less important.\u201D That, of course, is a more recent ruling than the one that you quoted, which is from 1963. The one that I have just quoted basically variously dates from the 2000s. I just want to get your ruling on which of those applies: the more recent one or the historical one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u002260a8ff0b69f84081ad651318706365bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260a8ff0b69f84081ad651318706365bf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is a matter for interpretation at the time. I do point out again that the member is wrong. I quoted Speaker\u2019s ruling 169/4, which, of course, is from 1984. That was probably still before the member was with us, but be that as it may.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221329c3eee2da462ab31f2ac4e6c25a25\u0022\u003ESentencing (Protection of Children from Criminal Offending) Amendment Bill\u2014Purpose\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235d60e845eb947d2a7ad7c61cc334380\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Member in charge of the Sentencing (Protection of Children from Criminal Offending) Amendment Bill: Is it her intention to proceed with the first reading of the Sentencing (Protection of Children from Criminal Offending) Amendment Bill; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022 data-id=\u002246307d68bfd348e597cd45b10d4982e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246307d68bfd348e597cd45b10d4982e1\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR (Member in charge of the Sentencing (Protection of Children from Criminal Offending) Amendment Bill):\u003C/span\u003E What an excellent question, and I thank the member for his keen interest in this very important bill. I can advise the member that I am looking forward to the opportunity to introduce this bill, the Sentencing (Protection of Children from Criminal Offending) Amendment Bill, to the House. New Zealand society has raised numerous and major concerns around the increased number of young children being subjected to severe abuse through criminal offending. New Zealand parliamentarians can no longer afford to turn a blind eye to the seriousness of this particular issue, especially with more children dying at the hands of irresponsible criminals. Furthermore, some of the incidents and cases involve family relatives of children and those who are meant to be their guardians for life. These irresponsible criminals will be made to face the reality of their offending, and my bill will ensure that they are given the sentence that reflects the seriousness of their offending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5130a91fa294c8a987825c86bbb2a75\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: What impact will the bill have on the numbers of families and the numbers of children whom the bill seeks to protect?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022add2fc3c06704a6885ce78e9d351067c\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR\u003C/span\u003E: I must apologise, I did not quite the hear the question from\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e289dc0f7a554108ab97d189cbf53870\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question was what impact will the bill have on the numbers of families and numbers of children affected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cc748c8bffe45aaae3f1724c42fc601\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR\u003C/span\u003E: The bill would definitely provide the opportunity for a safety net. It will also give judges the power to ensure that the sentences being handed out to criminals reflect the crime that has been committed. In other words, we are looking at making sure that the punishment fits the crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022800c57e58099456dbfd02774ad62bfce\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6 to Member\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u00222199d1e4da1849b4a6c93d789c1ddbdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222199d1e4da1849b4a6c93d789c1ddbdc\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E My question is the Chairperson of the Law and Order Committee. When will she\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022170c64d65ecf44928551e0a7e033e883\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022170c64d65ecf44928551e0a7e033e883\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I have just been advised that Jacqui Dean is not in the House, and therefore\u2014[Interruption]\u2014Order! I have just been advised that Jacqui Dean is not in the House, and that question will be held over to the next sitting day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0c751a45567438db7f2d01fa2645ab1\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am just wondering whether I can seek leave to table this question to the chair of the Law and Order Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4dc37e828d145edbe9bdc24276b9966\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. That is just wasting the time of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c670894afce64634918c3f305d90fe1e\u0022\u003ESocial Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill\u2014Purpose\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244b098d6fa86440287ea6df1495bd0d8\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Member in charge of the Social Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill: Is it her intention to proceed with the first reading of the Social Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill, if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u00229529f56d25af4385982e4dd69c87f407\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229529f56d25af4385982e4dd69c87f407\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (Member in charge of the Social Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Yes. It most certainly is my intention to proceed with the first reading of the Social Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill because the issue of fairness that it addresses for a large percentage of New Zealand orphans and unsupported children is real and urgent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220473183c191c4a548da838e696b3caa6\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Social Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill assist groups like the Grandparents Raising Grandchildren Trust; if so, how?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224025f6acabcd4257b2ac38a2f989723f\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Indirectly, yes. The majority of kin carers who are looking after the day-to-day needs of these orphans and unsupported children on behalf of us in New Zealand do tend to be grandparents who are now raising their grandchildren.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229189d2f9abdb44be8d948a4a11757c3d\u0022\u003ECare of Children Law Reform Bill\u2014Purpose\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e50923511bbf4316b47fc9974d09c0cd\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Member in charge of the Care of Children Law Reform Bill: Is it her intention to proceed with the first reading of the Care of Children Law Reform Bill; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002204f913307a004dcaba4b8ad4a982190e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204f913307a004dcaba4b8ad4a982190e\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Member in charge of the Care of Children Law Reform Bill):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, it is my intention that the Care of Children Law Reform Bill will receive its first reading as soon as members\u2019 day allows. This bill seeks to update the antiquated adoption laws in New Zealand and put children at the heart of all decision making around their future guardianship. Given that this is such an overdue piece of work, I would encourage the Government to pick it up as soon as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022887fe49bf0134a759adccb934e863179\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it necessary for the Care of Children Law Reform Bill to be advanced at this time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d20ae6a80e034977b974799608a7b860\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Our current law in this area dates back to the early 1950s and, simply put, is no longer fit for purpose. More than 10 years ago the Law Commission put out a report titled Adoption and its Alternatives, a more than 300-page report of ideas and recommendations to modernise our law and put children at the heart of any decision making about their future. Labour progressed work on guardianship, and now it is time for adoption law reform to begin, and to finally give legal weight to things like, for instance, wh\u0101ngai adoption, which for too long has not been given legal weight in this country. My bill will begin that process, and I look forward to the support of this House for that bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022998ba9c92642438eb637711ba1ae2c02\u0022\u003EPrivacy (Giving Privacy Commissioner Necessary Tools) Amendment Bill\u2014Purpose and Commentary\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b8231a4eca24176a61d4069ce5f839c\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Member in charge of the Privacy (Giving Privacy Commissioner Necessary Tools) Amendment Bill: Is it her intention to proceed with the first reading of the Privacy (Giving Privacy Commissioner Necessary Tools) Amendment Bill; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u00220a0a7e827bd44c4a9cdeedb48e57bf53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a0a7e827bd44c4a9cdeedb48e57bf53\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Member in charge of the Privacy (Giving Privacy Commissioner Necessary Tools) Amendment Bill):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. The first reading of my bill that gives more power to the Privacy Commissioner to fix privacy breaches becomes more urgent every day. The bill was initially drafted as a response to the systematic privacy breaches that have been happening frequently under this Government. From ACC to EQC, the Earthquake Commission, and now the GCSB, the Government Communications Security Bureau, and just about every acronym in between, it is obvious that this Government is playing fast and loose with New Zealanders\u2019 privacy. Who can forget the privacy breach that saw the ACC sending the private information of 6,748 people, some of them with sensitive claims, to Bronwyn Pullar, and then the leak\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022636e0ee057474d51b23dfe385b8c99b5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! Wrap up the answer please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ff55edf00e7482a9b153550db0d178b\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I probably should have said at the outset that this answer will\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d878619c08043b2a05e68a83f158454\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022620bbf67da014ab888c0a02a927f4843\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014be a little long because of the number\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa79d89f996b46be98c5043a210065a0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, it will not be a little long. Wrap up the answer concisely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a21a76daf4b947e6923fcdaa5dd63c9e\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: My bill aims to address these and many other breaches\u2014the many other breaches that I could have talked about\u2014by giving the Privacy Commissioner the power to investigate such breaches without having to first receive a complaint. Further, my bill would give the commissioner the right to require agencies to implement her recommendations once an investigation has been completed. Both of these law changes were recommended by the Law Commission when it considered our privacy laws.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2165a6a943f445dbe571ce5681b9881\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Has the member seen reports of support for the first reading of her bill to give the Privacy Commissioner more power to deal with privacy breaches; if so, what were they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b8c6d8152664870adee2acf1f3f7950\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, associate professor in commercial law at the University of Auckland Gehan Gunasekara wrote an opinion piece in the New Zealand Herald on 20 May saying that this bill is a step in the right direction. I have also seen a report from a year earlier that appears to support a bill enacting the Law Commission\u2019s recommendations on privacy issues. This was on 2 May 2012 when Minister of Justice, Judith Collins, opened Privacy Awareness Week by promising to replace the Privacy Act with a new Act. She promised to have a bill ready\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3daac2ba6d944a6aac16293303ed6c9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Just complete the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb09a637cfd94033a896bc47faf44483\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014for introduction in the first half of 2013. Well, we are into August 2013 now. There is no sign of Judith Collins\u2019 bill, but I look forward to her support of my bill, which was introduced into Parliament in May 2013. I seek leave of the House to put forward the copy of Judith Collins\u2019 speech to Privacy Awareness Week on 2 May 2012.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288867a0476064886b00d1589fbf9e864\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is probably available on the website, but to short-circuit things, leave is sought to table that speech. Is there any objection? There is. OK. Leave is so denied.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f30a48023a664196ba593525080a5ae7\u0022\u003EQuestion Nos 10 and 11 to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00229228beb1fd5d418690f99540ba00c626\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229228beb1fd5d418690f99540ba00c626\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 10 and Question No. 11 are held over to the next sitting day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c4132d88e2ba4c9b9a3950c9315ba203\u0022\u003EElectronic Data Safety Bill\u2014Purpose\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ee6ece6588141bb8a9bf643a6ebb94c\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Member in charge of the Electronic Data Safety Bill: Is it her intention to proceed with the first reading of the Electronic Data Safety Bill; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00220f013067a46d4d74aac9a19b04915a3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f013067a46d4d74aac9a19b04915a3f\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Member in charge of the Electronic Data Safety Bill):\u003C/span\u003E It is my intention to proceed with the first reading of the Electronic Data Safety Bill, which would establish a commission of inquiry into the various privacy breaches that have occurred within the last few years within various Government agencies. The commission would also examine the agencies\u2019 capacity to respond to breaches in the future and how best to prevent future unauthorised access to private information. There is a long line of privacy breaches at Government agencies, which include the ACC, the Ministry of Social Development, the Earthquake Commission, Housing New Zealand, the Medical Council of New Zealand, Immigration New Zealand, and recently the Ministry\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022865514d5d7d9472eb9869d4c538ce45f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That answer goes well past the original question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7f7a91d5ed64930be87f7e5a2f89957\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Has the member seen recent reports of breaches that have provided unauthorised access to private information, or instances where the Government\u2019s handling of a vulnerability issue has been questioned\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adb13f028b56470a9e844ce0d0029cd1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member in charge of the bill has no responsibility for that whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225722d57474d043c8a8d7f1416117d389\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was \u201CHas the member seen \u2026\u201D. She actually does have responsibility for what she sees. It is the same as the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a43477f9d2c4585b8b254a9681908c5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not accept that on this occasion. The question is ruled out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ee89a5b8dae74847bc593e46c2ea6dda\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 13 to Member\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec317db79de445e8a6b50b90139992f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec317db79de445e8a6b50b90139992f1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 13 is held over.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002288020f34eb40407bbb99f044050eac1f\u0022\u003EReserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill (No 2)\u2014Purpose\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E14. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272ca4f2e38ba44fa929afad18f772bf6\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Member in charge of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill (No 2): What is the intention of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill (No 2)?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c97a6808cac844a5a934ef33c6d11fe5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c97a6808cac844a5a934ef33c6d11fe5\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Member in charge of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill (No 2)):\u003C/span\u003E The intention of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill (No 2) is to amend section 8 of the principal Act to give the Reserve Bank a broader ambit when implementing monetary policy. This is an approach that provincial and export New Zealand has been desperately waiting for, for decades now. The bill would mean that the Reserve Bank would have to consider a much wider range of counter-inflationary measures, which about 50 other economies are doing, I might add, as well as supplementing tools for managing the exchange rate\u2014in short, no longer following the crude prescription for the right-wing monetarists that have so beset this economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e911813643e3411ab04d9c1f78ed0e52\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What additional tools could the Reserve Bank use?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287ea7cf523984005a7b25ef44f3cd780\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: That also is an excellent question. Such tools would include lightening capital controls, which would reduce the inflow of so-called \u201Chot\u201D money, which so many commentators have talked about, and lead to a depreciation of the exchange rate, which all the commentators\u2014including the IMF\u2014say is seriously overvalued, except they do not want to do anything about it. Another option is the introduction of a cap on the New Zealand dollar and a floor, above which or below which it must not rise or fall. This would require the Reserve Bank to sell New Zealand dollars and purchase foreign assets when the dollar reaches a certain threshold, which is now well past. The dollar has been damaged in the New Zealand export sector for a long, long time, hence we are finding so many people in the countryside, despite there being basic primary products like logs, having no employment at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e8d1711248b0459f9ae4a021d5fd1977\u0022\u003EReserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill (No 2)\u2014Effect on Policy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E15. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220db1c1945b7b4dfcbb5a629cecbe9a9f\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Member in charge of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill (No 2): How will the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill (No 2) help the Reserve Bank pursue a balanced macro-economic policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00228d56892cb9da4911a2b92bf85264c523\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d56892cb9da4911a2b92bf85264c523\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Member in charge of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill (No 2)):\u003C/span\u003E I have to commend the questioner on his amazing, insightful questions, because they are exactly what New Zealand needs at this point in time\u2014another very pertinent question. The Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill (No 2) would, in respect of the rural parts of this country, be of enormous assistance for provincial New Zealand towns. It would be of enormous assistance to a place like, for example, Southland\u2014with less than 3 percent of the population and 18 percent of the exports\u2014which would for the first time in a long time get a fair go. The bill would require the Reserve Bank to incorporate in its monetary policy the goal of achieving a stable and competitive exchange rate, sympathetic to export growth. The effect of a stable and competitive exchange rate would be a more productive export sector, which would increase the national income and help us earn our way out of the current economic malaise that the National Government has sunk us to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262cb40d6c6fc4805afb37e150ba35031\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What is the outlook for New Zealand without a balanced macroeconomic policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022130640d4f8f54b99a52360ec9be00191\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That question is not the responsibility of the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4c358b95cc64543ba7f43136c6a5fcd\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Surely you could ask him to rephrase it so it included the Reserve Bank amendment bill, and how\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240026e0639f341109db77f45c9699d13\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member has been here long enough and should have given some assistance earlier. The member is responsible for the bill\u2014[Interruption] Order! The member is responsible for the bill. If the question is worded in such a way that it addresses that responsibility, I will give the member a chance to answer. But if it is not related to the bill, then it will be ruled out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ace943a5951484589606e0a0a372060\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: So can he ask it with the bill in it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4ecd08abde743c7a613dc90b168bd57\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022340e639e3f27496b90ad533375e96fd0\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill be impacted in terms of the New Zealand economy if it does not succeed and there is no balanced macroeconomic policy as a result?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfa5821bd7c6498cab93d18e53c58e2b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is certainly a better attempt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a9494da80554a2ca209bd87fc551fa1\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker\u2014it is a wonder what some members can do with your guidance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263e2883ab7944b9e91803d46a5dcb7ea\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member should not be surprised. Will he proceed now with the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022372bb4cc588c4994a41ac81568c3441b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The answer is that if we do not change, it will be more of the same. It will be more of the same, only worse: hundreds of manufacturing jobs being lost each week; more manufacturing closures, as we see headlined every week; cutbacks and relocations offshore, as we see in our news every week; more farmers sliding into economic difficulty, despite being involved in what they say is the white gold of our country\u2019s economy; every year 50,000-plus going to Australia; and a worsening balance of payments crisis that sees us heading to uncharted depths, as evidenced this very day by the current account deficit reaching, I think, 4.9 percent and heading towards 7 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a2e30b85782548998add5e3811ad0b68\u0022\u003EReserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill (No 2)\u2014Timing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E16. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ff59e40b6284ce7aacff39c59786177\u0022\u003EANDREW WILLIAMS (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Member in charge of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill (No 2): Why is the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill (No 2) needed now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00225387804edcdb474488f75bc29f0fd606\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225387804edcdb474488f75bc29f0fd606\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Member in charge of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Amending Primary Function of Bank) Amendment Bill (No 2)):\u003C/span\u003E Despite a recent drop, the fact is that there has been an unerring rise in the New Zealand dollar, heading towards parity with the US dollar. Our current account deficit is forecast to reach almost 7 percent, as I said, in the next 2 years. As we know, an average of 100 manufacturing jobs are being lost each week, and the high dollar is estimated to be costing exporters well over $2 billion a year. We need to have a serious public debate about the future of monetary policy\u2014in particular, the historically high dollar\u2014and this time we hope that the National Party, which has so many provincial seats\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfca543829b9463aaeb4b2e2da67c628\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Just complete the answer without referring to the National Party. It is to do with the member\u2019s responsibility for the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc88b9a925da4362ab61b422611fdf6c\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014will, by some process of osmosis, understand common sense and economics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e1e4b836b84435d91e1a0bd3ee14eca\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What is the international context of the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221982aabbcfdb4f5ab1d171aa0b4cf467\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: That is the best question of all, because this House has heard that we cannot take measures, except that around the world Governments and central banks are placing greater emphasis on their exchange rate. Right now the United States, for example, is getting the benefits of its third round of quantitative easing, so is the United Kingdom, and the European Central Bank has cut interest rates. Singapore, Japan, and Switzerland are actively trading against their respective currencies. Other countries, such as Brazil and Canada, are operating capital controls, whilst we resemble Spain, with the tired old recipe that has not worked for 28 years now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ca3c4b900b68444db18509c55b62d17d\u0022\u003ESentencing (Protection of Children from Criminal Offending) Amendment Bill\u2014Purpose and Feedback\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E17. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290f0b3ab6ff1446eb462105504d84d0c\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Member in charge of the Sentencing (Protection of Children from Criminal Offending) Amendment Bill: What is the intention of the Sentencing (Protection of Children from Criminal Offending) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022 data-id=\u00221e19d5cd279241d69fca576e9e70f769\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e19d5cd279241d69fca576e9e70f769\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR (Member in charge of the Sentencing (Protection of Children from Criminal Offending) Amendment Bill):\u003C/span\u003E How wonderful it is to hear the member\u2019s question. I must thank the member for seeking better understanding of what this bill is all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ae12ab58a3f432694c9629e1d8c4e51\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Now would the member just address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9934a96ac374823a15bc675de7f5884\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR\u003C/span\u003E: I am pleased to inform the member that the Sentencing (Protection of Children from Criminal Offending) Amendment Bill aims to ensure that New Zealand deals with criminals who take no notice of the rights of young generations, particularly minors or children under the age of 17 years. The bill seeks to make criminal offending in the presence of a minor an aggravating factor at sentencing, in response to the increased number of children who suffer emotional, physical, and psychological effects as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbb11c6d8f2043d6a0155a86c0d9adcb\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback, if any, have you received from the community on the Sentencing (Protection of Children from Criminal Offending) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228512087ca9e4211a1d669345644b22c\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR\u003C/span\u003E: Kia orana, Mr Speaker. That is one valid, very important question. I am pleased to elaborate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d239356d458482db7143f6cf9b5a0f0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Would the member just answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226c76efc544243eb8513efaed45221be\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR\u003C/span\u003E: I am trying to, Mr Speaker. In recent years communities have witnessed the ongoing and unfair treatment of our children, yet criminal activities involving children have not deterred criminals from committing serious crimes in their presence. I can advise the member that I have received a huge amount of feedback from various community organisations, local groups, individuals, and key Government organisations. Some of these communities include Papatoetoe Methodist congregations; Sandringham congregations; the combined Woolston and Christchurch communities whom I met at a public forum; anti-violence groups; councils; schools; sports clubs; and more. These communities are waiting with interest to see this bill being introduced to the House and getting its first reading, which I am hopeful will be this week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022500d741a65324b759b7dc236b2b72668\u0022\u003ESentencing (Protection of Children from Criminal Offending) Amendment Bill\u2014Timing and Purpose\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E18. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2584abdf47c404d90994f97b926162b\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Member in charge of the Sentencing (Protection of Children from Criminal Offending) Amendment Bill: Why is the Sentencing (Protection of Children from Criminal Offending) Amendment Bill needed now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223171cddb03e942799bac5bb3cd9a5dd3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call Le\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c96bb4d9faf74f3e98aa8cc8ebdfe9f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c96bb4d9faf74f3e98aa8cc8ebdfe9f0\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR (Member in charge of the Sentencing (Protection of Children from Criminal Offending) Amendment Bill):\u003C/span\u003E Just to help you, Mr Speaker. My name is Le\u2019aufa\u2019amulia\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022655a468415ce41109bc22cfd801d8a26\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Would the member just address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254397e44baae401aa2411653e5ebca84\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR\u003C/span\u003E: It is a fair comment. It is my name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224529d68fa874598b093510e7c423700\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1e3450f74cd456a8726354366f480d4\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR\u003C/span\u003E: I am glad to hear that the member\u2019s interest in this bill shows the importance of why the bill should receive strong support across the House. Only last month another child died at the hands of the child\u2019s carer\u2014one of so many children whom this country has witnessed to be a statistic and to form the unacceptable level of minors being unfairly affected by the ignorant behaviour of those who subject our young children to their criminal activities. Criminal offending by adults often exposes minors to serious harm, and I can advise the member that this bill aims to enable the legal system in New Zealand to view such criminal activities and give appropriate sentences that are reflective of this harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236753d303e2c4594b6632c0b8d662f77\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: What research backs up the Sentencing (Protection of Children from Criminal Offending) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ee85c14d1614d1680e933eb41825a13\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR\u003C/span\u003E: An excellent question, and I can say this. There have been numerous media reports of children being placed in danger, and also children who were found in P labs are likely to be inhaling and absorbing the same levels of methamphetamine as adult drug users. I can inform the member that senior lecturer in psychological medicine at the University of Auckland, Dr Trecia Wouldes, said that in their research on the long-term effects of methamphetamine on children, what was known about the effects of passive smoking could be indicative, and the effects range from allergies or irritations from the drugs, with the worst coming from breathing the fumes daily, and physical trauma or burns that could occur if the labs exploded. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002249fa036947c745608f81f002d78a8444\u0022\u003ESocial Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill\u2014Purpose and Feedback\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E19. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd784aff3a8f4dc28574d4ea49597ed0\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Member in charge of the Social Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill: What is the intention of the Social Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae14c153583d44dfb2e3fcf2a8377c21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae14c153583d44dfb2e3fcf2a8377c21\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (Member in charge of the Social Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. The intention of the Social Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill is recognition in statute that an orphan is an orphan, whether placed with foster parents or kin carers, and that any State support should be based upon the circumstances of the child, not the circumstances of the adult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a5c4a6042594774a7756ab70ed899e7\u0022\u003ERichard Prosser\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback, if any, has the member received from the community on the Social Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270199d6ba7414c11b1c46966443ac0c6\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora. I have been pleased to receive not only substantial support from the Grandparents Raising Grandchildren Trust but also positive recognition from the New Zealand Family and Foster Care Federation Inc. I have also had conversations with iwi-based social service providers, who have an intimate knowledge of how this inequity affects many of these children in the families they serve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022afb84d6d6d9446ce946b12265c61012c\u0022\u003ESocial Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill\u2014Timing and Purpose\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E20. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022570ca3ef52e746de8c639d01b1dc14bc\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Member in charge of the Social Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill: Why is the Social Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill needed now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u00229739198b9ef5480990e512d9fb4f15bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229739198b9ef5480990e512d9fb4f15bb\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (Member in charge of the Social Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for his question. The Social Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill is needed now as more and more children are finding themselves in the unenviable position of being declared an orphan or an unsupported child by the State. Kin carers are being targeted by social services to step up and support these children, which they do, only to find the children deliberately disadvantaged through lower support due to a kin relationship. These children are being discriminated against by the State due to circumstances beyond their control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dff800f0670f4783b6c879c41cb99001\u0022\u003ERichard Prosser\u003C/span\u003E: How will orphans and unsupported children be better off under the Social Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229aa125f2e3f743ad9cece624b3b4f241\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Should the Social Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Bill pass into law, all orphans and unsupported children will be recognised equally by Government services, as should always have been the case. This will bring the focus of the service provision back to a child-focus provision, which was, I believe, the original intent of previous Parliaments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022352c408e8dc14553a21c002731441ae4\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224564c5e23fa24e1db8d9557de632ffad\u0022\u003EGCSB, Review of Compliance\u2014Investigation into Leak and Release of Data\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00220f62ae76823341708de66a2738c09256\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f62ae76823341708de66a2738c09256\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received letters from Dr Russel Norman and Grant Robertson seeking to debate under Standing Order 386 the receipt by the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet of emails between the Hon Peter Dunne and Andrea Vance and the withholding of knowledge of their receipt from the Prime Minister for weeks. This is a particular case of recent occurrence involving ministerial responsibility. However, I have also received a letter from David Shearer seeking to debate the Government\u2019s response to Fonterra\u2019s announcement that bacteria that could cause botulism has been found in some of its products. This too is a particular case of recent occurrence involving the administrative responsibility of the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EWhere more than one application is received that meets this test, the Speaker considers the importance of the matters raised and decides which, in his opinion, is more important. The matter raised by Dr Norman and Mr Robertson touches on issues that may well be considered during the Privileges Committee inquiry into the use of intrusive powers within the parliamentary precinct. The report will be debated by the House in due course. There are now the avenues for which to pursue this matter, and these applications are therefore declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b90858278da4855967b48a12bcc52f5\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022be606d60e49740b6b1fb2c7fb9a8e28e\u0022\u003EDairy Products, Whey Protein\u2014Response to Contamination Incident\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u002277f6cf230f4444f88af90c859d219250\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277f6cf230f4444f88af90c859d219250\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Acting Director-General of the Ministry for Primary Industries has issued a statutory statement regarding potentially contaminated products on the New Zealand market, and the Minister of Trade has formally notified the World Health Organization and New Zealand\u2019s trading partners. An operational response team has been set up and is updating relevant Ministers. Clearly, this is a very serious issue. Confidence in the Government\u2019s response is critical. The public requires protection. I therefore call on David Shearer to move that the House take note of an urgent matter of public importance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4be88aa11db421585b290778fa1bba7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4be88aa11db421585b290778fa1bba7\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance. We were shocked, as a country, to learn on Friday, through an email or a press release that was sent out at about 1 o\u2019clock on Saturday morning, that there had been a serious problem regarding the contamination of some of our milk product that has been sent overseas. This has grave consequences for New Zealand. It has grave consequences for both our trading partners and our export markets overseas, but more important, more directly, and more immediately it has obvious consequences on women, fathers, and children in terms of the formula that parents are feeding their children. Many mothers and fathers around this country are worried about the formula they had been feeding their kids because of the risk that botulism might have been introduced to them. That same fear was spread around the rest of the world where New Zealand product had been exported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThe response from the Government and the way that Fonterra responded was of critical importance to the way that we could at least alleviate the many fears that those parents had. The Government was quick off the mark. I commend it for its speed in being able to do that. I believe that the response the Government has made to the emergency, up to now, has been a good one. But we are still left in a situation where there are many, many questions that remain unanswered. From the point of view of Labour Party members, we want to stand with the Government on this issue. This is an issue of \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D It is about our futures together. It is not about politics as such. It is about New Zealand, our reputation, and the reputation of our products overseas and offshore. So we will stand with the Government and we will stand with Fonterra, and we will assist as much as we can in providing those answers for parents. But, as I said, there are questions\u2014there are very serious questions\u2014about the way in which this problem emerged and the way in which the Government\u2019s response has taken place so far. As I said, the Ministers have responded quickly, but the question, really, is about the wider governmental response. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EI guess the first question that needs to be answered is why this potential contamination took so long to detect. The problem was first alerted back in March, and it took until now for us to actually realise that we have sent offshore milk powder or milk whey that was contaminated with this bacteria. Why did it take so long to tell people about it? We would have thought that given Fonterra\u2019s realisation after the dicyandiamide scare, it would realise that this sort of problem, should it get out, has innumerable, vast consequences for our export industries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EWhy has the Ministry of Health not played a major role in getting information to parents? The Prime Minister mentioned that the Ministry of Health was involved in some of the discussions, but it has been notable by the absence of its voice in this particular case. It has not been heard across New Zealand and it has not been able to give that reassurance. In fact, many of the mothers who have been ringing in to get good, accurate information have actually been ringing Plunket. That emphasises, I guess\u2014underlines\u2014the value and the reliance that we put on Plunket in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EWhat protocols did the Ministry for Primary Industries and Fonterra have in place for handling these sorts of situations? Given the dicyandiamide scare and given the melamine scare before that, we would have thought that protocols were in place and that it would simply be a matter of plucking them off the shelf, so to speak, and applying them to this particular context. The fact that the information kept changing, the facts kept changing, is a real concern. There does seem to be an absence of strategic communications within Fonterra that points to some deeper problems within Fonterra around food safety and the way that it responds to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EAs I said in my speech earlier on, Fonterra is our largest company. It is a brand that we feel proud of. It is a company, a cooperative, that is owned by New Zealanders. It is owned by farmers. It is unique in that sense. It can never be sold offshore. It is uniquely and firmly implanted in our country. It came into existence in order to provide that clout on the world stage. Many people have contrasted the fortunes of Fonterra with the fortunes of our meat industry, which is far more fragmented and, as a result, is not doing anywhere near as well. Fonterra came into existence under a Labour Government, which had to overlook and override many of the concerns that the Commerce Commission brought up in regard to the existence of Fonterra. Yet we are very proud of this company, as I have said. We are very proud of a company that has been able to get out there and be the ambassador, if you like, for New Zealand, for our \u201Cclean, green\u201D brand, and for our clean, green image. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThat brand is, I think, about the 22nd or 23rd most recognised brand in the world. I think New Zealand\u2019s \u201Cclean, green\u201D, \u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D brand comes just after, or just before, Dell computers. Fonterra was the ambassador of that brand offshore because its products made up 28 percent of our export value. So an incident like this creates real problems not only with our milk exports\u2014which have been shut out of Russia, there are concerns in Viet Nam and Malaysia, and there is the possibility of being shut out of Sri Lanka and, obviously, China, where nearly $3 billion of product goes\u2014but right across the world in terms of the way that we are perceived internationally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EFonterra is a global company\u2014a truly global company\u2014and it has huge responsibilities. We have given it the right to be a monopoly in our country, and we believe that that was the right way forward, but with that right comes enormous responsibility. As our only truly global company, that responsibility includes protecting our reputation as a source of safe, quality food. Our food commands the top price, the premium price, because we advertise it as clean, green, safe, ethically grown, and sustainable. It is not born from large sheds of cows standing in stalls being fed grain or whatever supplements and chemicals; it is milk that comes from the grass, from the fields that we are blessed with in terms of our environment and our climate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EBut our reputation is built on trust. It is built on trust as much as it is built on our technology. The quality of that trust disappears as transparency fades. Transparency is hugely important for New Zealand and the way that we articulate that around the world. We have a reputation for being the most honest and the most transparent country in the world. Transparency International puts us there at No. 1. That is part of our reputation, along with the reputation for being clean and green. On this, Fonterra has, unfortunately, let us down in the last couple of days. As I said before, its strategic communications have been hugely lacking. For me, seeing the changes in response over the last few days has been very disappointing. The representative who was on John Campbell\u2019s show last night\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e45cbf073ad499f818ce36e95c5cc9e\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Romano.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208bb5c01624c4b05a45fdd540995904f\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Gary Romano, could not give us a reassurance about the milk powder that was actually out there on sale\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250cb8c1fe267430f858f5c922bb8ab69\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Karicare\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7fbb1eff043401996e7199868daba51\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Karicare, thank you very much\u2014and whether the batch numbers were at fault or whether the actual product itself was the problem. We understand that things can go wrong\u2014of course we understand that\u2014but what we expect from our largest global company is to be told the truth. People expect to be told in a fulsome manner the facts of the case. As I said, that is what we are known for, and that is what the people and the Government in China are expecting from us as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EJohn Key was in China in April. We have an ongoing relationship with China that is hugely important. It became our No. 1 trading partner in the world just a few months ago. It has enormous potential to grow even further than that. Our product is regarded there as the most trusted and the most safe. So when its news agency calls our brand into question, it creates enormous concern and enormous worry about the future. We will need to get this right, as Tim Groser said today in the House. Over the next days, weeks, and months getting this right and re-establishing ourselves as an exporter of quality food is going to be hugely important, and the way that we articulate that in the coming days is going to be very, very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E After that time we are going to have to work hard to build up the respect and the trust that have been lost as a result of this scandal. We have to ask more questions, of course. Have the Ministers done enough from the outset? From what I have seen they certainly have not slackened in their task, which is good, but we have to ask questions about the Ministry for Primary Industries. We have to ask whether that ministry has been too hands-off or, in fact, whether it has not been brought into the loop as quickly as possible. I suggest that it does point to an issue within Fonterra\u2014that it keeps the Ministry for Primary Industries at arm\u2019s length and does not bring it in. As a result, there is a culture amongst some of the more senior people there of, dare I say it, arrogance\u2014that they know better than absolutely anybody else. Well, I hope this brings about some humility from that organisation, because that organisation has put at risk our exports\u2014that is, the farmers in our country\u2014but also, of course, the whole \u201Cclean, green\u201D brand of New Zealand itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThe Ministry for Primary Industries has always pushed to grow exports, and often, I believe, that has overshadowed the emphasis it has put on protection. Our biosecurity and our food safety are two aspects that used to be quite separate, and they have been merged into that one organisation, that one ministry. Those two together, I believe, have maybe lost their way in the bigger infrastructure of the ministry. This is one area that I do believe we need to go back to, to see exactly where they were, how they were brought into the current problems, and what role they actually play, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EBut our first priority, once again, is the protection of families and their children, the protection of our international standing as a safe food exporter, and our nation\u2019s reputation. We need to work much harder and much faster on that because this issue is bigger than politics. But Fonterra, as I said before, is not bigger than Parliament. It is up to us in this House to come together and to make sure that everything that happens from this moment on happens in the best interests of both parents and of this country. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022d26fb83a04f54e4a9524d5c28d50feb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d26fb83a04f54e4a9524d5c28d50feb9\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (Minister for Food Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I welcome the opportunity to speak in Parliament today. Can I start by saying and acknowledging that there are a huge number of people across the Government and in the community working hard to resolve this issue. For generations our country has been providing safe and suitable food. We have an outstanding record, but what I can say\u2014and I think I am expressing what many New Zealanders are feeling at the moment\u2014is that this incident is disappointing. I want in my comments now to just work through what we know and what the Government has done in terms of a response. It has been comprehensive. There have been officials working round the clock, and there is also a ministerial response team that has been working and has had a number of meetings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWhat we know is that Fonterra notified the Ministry for Primary Industries that three batches of whey protein concentrate were potentially contaminated with Clostridium botulinum. Further notifications have been received by the Ministry for Primary Industries since. The ministry\u2019s companies and verifiers have been tracing the movement of this protein and of the products it has been made into, and any distributional sales. It is important for people to understand at this point that what has been difficult is that the information has changed through this event. But what I can say is that we have had a response team that has involved the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, the Ministry for Primary Industries, the Ministry of Health, and a number of other agencies to ensure that the public have the best information available from what we have been given. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EIt has already been in the public domain, obviously, that there were two batches that were recalled by Karicare. The Acting Director-General of Health has taken further actions. When it became clear that the information was uncertain, he took a precautionary measure and issued a cautionary statement to protect the public, which is absolutely the right thing to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EAs I said before, there are a number of other actions that the Government has been taking to ensure a whole-of-Government response. Can I acknowledge the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s comments that this is above politics. It is important, I think, that we work together across this House to ensure that the public know that we are operating in the best interests of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EIn terms of other actions that the Government and the ministerial response team and agencies have taken, officials from the Ministry for Primary Industries are at Fonterra sites in Auckland, Hamilton, and Australia to verify information and to obtain a complete picture of the products and locations affected by the contaminated powder. My colleague the Hon Tim Groser will soon have the opportunity to speak, and he will talk about what he has been doing at an international level, because what we do realise is that it is important that our agencies work to ensure certainty around traceability of that product not only for New Zealanders but also for the many mums and dads and the Governments across the world that have been affected by this incident. Yes, we have a strong record as a country in terms of providing safe and suitable food, but we have high expectations of ourselves, and we are disappointed by this incident. It has resulted in Ministers working round the clock\u2014whether it is at an international level, through my colleague the Hon Tim Groser, or domestically, through me and Ministers like the Hon Tony Ryall, the Hon Jo Goodhew, and the Hon Paula Bennett, who has been involved as well\u2014to ensure that the public are protected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI can also confirm that in terms of the potential contamination of the pipe, Ministry for Primary Industries officials have conducted a physical check of the plant in the Waikato to confirm that the pipe suspected of causing the contamination has been changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to touch on another issue because, obviously, throughout this issue, given that there was uncertain information, the ministerial response team, Government agencies, and the food and grocery sector have been focused on ensuring that there are no immediate supply issues in terms of infant formula. We want mums and dads around the country to know that we are doing everything we can to ensure that infant formula is on the shelf and safe. What people can be assured is that there have been a number of meetings between Ministers\u2014including the Hon Tony Ryall, the Hon Jo Goodhew, and me\u2014and the food and grocery sector. I want to thank those representatives for their confirmation to me that they will do everything they can to ensure that supply is maintained. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThis is obviously an incident that is disappointing. It is having consequences, which my colleague the Hon Tim Groser will talk about. But what I want to assure the New Zealand public is that we are operating on a basis that is about protecting them, and that when information comes to hand, we are doing everything we can to ensure that the information we have been given is communicated in a responsible way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI am very proud to be the Minister for Food Safety, and I know the strong record our country has had, but I also want to express on behalf of, I think, many New Zealanders that we are disappointed with this incident. My focus right now is on ensuring that the public are protected and that the agencies that are involved in the operational response have every resource they need. I am working with my ministerial colleagues to ensure that this agile response continues to work round the clock so that we have this issue resolved. What I want to assure people is that there will be a time to ask those appropriate questions, and whether they are asked of the companies involved or in terms of our food systems, I think that is important because we need to ensure that we do everything we can to restore confidence in New Zealand\u2019s trusted reputation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E I cannot stay here for the rest of this debate. It is not that I am not absolutely focused on it or do not want to listen to the rest of the speakers here; it is just that I am spending every waking moment ensuring that the Government response to this issue is comprehensive and ensures that the public get the best information available when we have it. I have to leave the Chamber, but I just want to acknowledge the Leader of the Opposition, who has already spoken, who has said that this is bigger than politics. I look forward to other members in the House working together to ensure that we do everything we can to ensure that the public are protected, that they have the best information, and that our international partners continue to have confidence in our country in terms of our food systems. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee29a0aeed0e4440a6af904ff5f37e04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee29a0aeed0e4440a6af904ff5f37e04\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the Green Party in this urgent debate about the contamination of whey and its processing into other products. This has been a very confused few days. I want to start by just running over the time line of what happened. We have certainly been trying to wade our way through the information, some of which has been good and some of which has been a bit confusing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EIt looks like what happened is that in May 2012 some whey was processed by Fonterra, and about 20 tonnes were shipped to six customers. At that stage the whey was not tested for Clostridium. That is because of the use that it was going to be put to, it was not seen as necessary to test it for Clostridium, but it appears that at this point it was contaminated as a result of a contaminated pipe, we are told. That was in May 2012. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ENothing happened until March this year. What happened in March 2013 was that the remaining 18 tonnes of the processed product were shipped to Darwin to make infant formula. At that point testing of the product for Clostridium was done. This is the important point. The reason it was done was that, obviously, Clostridium, particularly the harmful forms of Clostridium, is very dangerous to have in infant formula. So it was tested by Fonterra at that point, and at that point Fonterra established that there was a contamination problem in this whey that was to be shipped off to Darwin. That was in March. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe issue I have is what happened between March and July, because it was only on 31 July that it was finally confirmed that it was Clostridium botulinum, which is the toxic kind of Clostridium\u2014there are many non-toxic kinds. It was only at that point that it was confirmed that it was C. botulinum. So there is a gap. I think we really need some answers as to what happened in that gap and why it was only after 5 months that we finally found out that it was the toxic kind of Clostridium, C. botulinum. After 31 July, when it was apparently confirmed that it was the toxic kind of Clostridium, things moved reasonably quickly. The Ministry for Primary Industries was apparently told on 2 August, and then on 3 August the issue went public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EAfter that there was also some further confusion. I think there are some issues here about supply chain traceability, because it became a bit confusing to parents as to what kinds of infant formula they were meant to be avoiding. Many parents, I suspect, went out and bought the kinds of infant formula that they thought were safe, and it turned out, as advice evolved over the next few days, that that was not necessarily so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe primary responsibility of Parliament, this Government, and Fonterra in this situation is to protect the health of those who are consuming these food products. Everything else is secondary to that. That has to be the primary purpose of all of the Government actions and all of the fine words that get said in Parliament. That has to be where we start. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ELocating the contaminated product is essential to that, and making sure that we have in place supply chain traceability so that we can track that product down very quickly seems to me to be absolutely essential. I have been a little bit disturbed that we have had trouble locating some of that product. It would seem that part of the reason, I am sure, is the 5-month gap between when this was first identified, and when it was finally confirmed that it was actually C. botulinum, which has created part of the problem for tracking the supply chain, as the product has been distributed. We are still hopeful that the final, remaining part of the product\u2014we have been told that most of it, 90 percent of it, has been located\u2014is located very quickly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe next part of our responsibility is about informing parents from an authoritative voice. That is where, I think, it is very important that the Ministry of Health is involved. Although the Ministry for Primary Industries is, I am sure, a fine department, it necessarily has a different focus from the Ministry of Health, which has a sole focus on the health of people. The Ministry for Primary Industries has a more diverse focus, let us say. I believe it is important, in terms of informing parents and making sure they have good information, both that the source of that advice is one that has no complicated motives but has a simple, straightforward motive, which is health, that is, the Ministry of Health, and that we make greater efforts to actually communicate that to people. Not everybody follows the media very closely every day and keeps track of exactly what is going on, so I think it is important. That is not just for parents of children in New Zealand but, of course, in other countries where the product has been distributed. I believe that should be one of our key priorities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EIn terms of where we go from here, questions remain for us about the gap between the finding of the genus Clostridium, the identification of the species C. botulinum, the toxic species, in particular, and the questions we have about why notification took so long. Are there in place measures, what we think would be standard notifications, whereby if a company like Fonterra, or any other company that produces food, finds a potential contaminant like this? I would have assumed that there was in place an automatic process whereby Government agencies are notified, whether it is the Ministry for Primary Industries or the Ministry of Health or both. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWe asked questions in the House today\u2014and we will continue to follow that up\u2014about whether there is in place a mechanism whereby there is some kind of automatic notification when these kinds of contaminants or potential contaminants are found, so that the Ministry for Primary Industries and the Ministry of Health are involved right from the beginning. That, to us, seems to be one of the critical issues, because of the time lag involved between the two periods. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWe are also, obviously, very interested in looking at the exact relationship between the Ministry for Primary Industries and Fonterra. If you think of the Ministry for Primary Industries as the regulator and Fonterra and the other companies as the industry, it is obviously essential that the regulator has, if you like, in some respects an arm\u2019s length approach from Fonterra. That is, it should be that the ministry is able to take an independent position, and step in on the industry when it is necessary to act in the greater good. That is the role of the Government. The role of the Government is not just to be captured by business, the role of the Government is not to be an arm of corporations or industry; the role of the Government is in this case to act as an arm\u2019s length independent regulator that has both the ability and the motive to intervene if that is necessary. That will be, I think, one of the questions that we will be asking going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThis issue and this episode have also raised broader questions about the diversification, or lack thereof, of the New Zealand economy. We have seen over previous years, and it has been a strategy of this Government, a kind of simplification of the New Zealand economy. That means that we have become more and more reliant on a single, large industry. That is, of course, the dairy sector. It seems to us that relying on a single, large industry has risks, and I think those risks have been exposed during this period. It does not result in a highly resilient economy; it results, in some respects, in a more fragile economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWe would argue that this case should be a wake-up call for all of us that we need to diversify not only the New Zealand economy more broadly but also the primary sector. We should not have just a primary sector that is leaning so heavily on dairy, and we should not have an export sector more generally and a tradable sector more generally that are leaning so heavily on dairy. We think it is very important that we develop the manufacturing sector and that we develop the other sectors of the economy, such as the information and communications technology sector, so that we do not simply rely on one large industry, which, if something goes awry and that industry gets into trouble, has significant effects on the New Zealand economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWe think also that this case does bring home to us the significance and importance of \u201Cclean, green, and safe\u201D as the branding of the New Zealand agrifood industry and, of course, of New Zealand as a whole. That branding of \u201Cclean, green, and safe\u201D is incredibly valuable, and if we push towards more and more quantity or volume through the sector, and in the process compromise \u201Cclean, green, and safe\u201D, then I think that is a significant problem for our export sector. Obviously, we do not know the details of how exactly this problem evolved, but it certainly has brought to the fore how critical those reputational issues are, and how it is very important that we protect them, in order to protect not just the long-term interests of the dairy sector and the agrifood sector but the long-term interests of New Zealand more broadly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EAt the end of my contribution, I will just return to the importance of staying focused on the food and those who consume it. That has to be our primary concern. That has to be the concern of the Government. All the other issues around the development of the dairy sector, in terms of finding out what happened, are all very important, but in the first instance our focus needs to remain on making sure that we track down that food and that we notify those parents of the issues involved. That needs to be, at this point in time, our No. 1 focus, and then in time we will be looking at exactly why this happened. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc6ff984728944348f26c8281125470c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc6ff984728944348f26c8281125470c\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to make a contribution in this very serious urgent debate, which doubtless affects us all. There can be no dispute that the Fonterra food contamination scare is a very, very serious matter for New Zealand. As a parent, there is nothing you care more about in the world than your child\u2019s welfare. Every parent in this House would agree with me on that, I am certain. Our immediate concern therefore has to be with the families and their children who may have been affected by this issue, and we must act in a cooperative manner as a Parliament to address that. We stand with the Government and with the Opposition\u2014the Labour Opposition\u2014in this regard. This is a time for questions, certainly, but not yet a time for recriminations. Questions will follow, and from them we certainly hope there will be answers so that situations like this are not repeated. How many children have been affected? One has to assume that there is a huge number potentially affected here and abroad. The news that Nutricia Karicare Stage 1 New Baby Infant Formula, which is for babies from birth, and Nutricia Karicare Gold\u002B Stage 2 Follow-on Formula, which is for babies from 6 months, have been affected, or may have potentially been affected, by this contaminated powder is truly shocking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EIt is important to remember that when children are involved in an issue such as this, the world takes notice. This story has been covered in news agencies not just in the countries affected but further afield, in the United States and in the United Kingdom. It has been covered across the Asian continent, from The Times of India to the Bangkok Post, the Taipei Times, all the way to Saudi Arabia and the Middle East. The BBC, CNN, the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, the Financial Times, and Australia\u2019s the Age and the Sydney Morning Herald have all covered the story. All of these markets and all of these parents are seeing the news that New Zealand products are potentially dangerous for children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EOur whole economy hinges on our capacity to supply our export markets with pure food. That has been one of our great comparative advantages in a world that seeks healthy food. I can speak from personal experience, from 10 years in the wine industry, of the degree of attention that has to be paid to cleanliness, and the degree to which people have to be absolutely fastidious at all stages in the food production chain. As a winemaker, it was my responsibility to make sure that there was no contamination at all entering the wine. In fact, contamination at any stage could have resulted in the product being destroyed. Even if the product was not destroyed, there were residues. I remember one occasion particularly where a competitor winery had an instance where they had not observed a withholding period for an application of fungicide in a vineyard, and a residue of a banned fungicide was detected in a consignment of wine that was exported to the European Union. The Europeans, of course, have extremely stringent controls and safety standards for chemicals of that type. The end result was that an entire shipment was written off. That resulted in extreme financial hardship for that particular winery, which resulted in it going broke. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003ESo, in one way, this food contamination scare is a wake-up call for all of us. Any illusions of complacency that we might have had have been dispelled. It reminds us of how vulnerable our economy is. So it will be vital to get to the heart of this matter\u2014when, why, and how it happened. New Zealand First is of the view that serious questions will need to be asked of the whole role that Fonterra plays in our economy. We do have a lot of eggs in one basket. We place a lot of faith in Fonterra as a large player on the global scene, but I think we lull ourselves into a sense of misunderstanding about Fonterra and its size in the world dairy market. In New Zealand we allow ourselves to believe that we are a major and significant player in dairy in global terms because of the size of our exports relative to production. We know, for example, that New Zealand\u2014mostly through Fonterra\u2014supplies something like 35 percent of the world\u2019s cross-border trade in dairy products, and, for that reason, we believe ourselves to be massively significant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThe reality is, however, that New Zealand produces less than 3 percent of the world\u2019s milk. Most of the world\u2019s dairy production is consumed in the country of origin. Where New Zealand has an advantage is that we have an enormous capacity for production, over and above what our own requirements for consumption are. So that puts us in a position where we are able to export 95 percent of what we produce. That is a good thing because it gives us a strong underpinning to our economy, but it also puts us in a position where, if a scare like this happens, we are reliant on the preservation of our brand\u2019s business\u2014of Fonterra\u2019s brand\u2019s business particularly\u2014because there is not the sheer volume or bulk of other commodities to back it up. Countries that seek these products can get them from other places. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003ESo maybe we have too many eggs in the one basket. With size comes economies of scale, and efficiency is one of those things, but there is a down side, and that is increased vulnerability. The balance needs to be the right one. We must rethink our approach to risk, given the role of the dairy sector. Fonterra is a global company, but along with the gains that come from globalisation, there is immense responsibility. New Zealand First will not rush to judgment on this crisis, but we would ultimately like to see some good come of it. That means that the following need to be addressed: firstly, that this type of situation is not repeated; secondly, that our systems emerge stronger and more robust; and, thirdly, that New Zealand does get credit for dealing directly and openly with this crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI think it is pertinent to point out at this point that at the moment we have a scare\u2014a scare relating to a potential contamination of a very small quantity of one product line from one company. In the fullness of time it will probably turn out that, in actual fact, nobody has been hurt by it. But one thing that has been hurt is New Zealand\u2019s reputation, and the reputation of our premium brands has been hurt. We will work hard and we will get that reputation back, but it is also worthy of note that in some markets the efforts that we undertake in order to ensure that we do regain our premium place in those markets mean that those markets will offer us a correspondingly lower price, because they realise that there is that element of risk and they realise that there is that great element of importance to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI think it is probably a good time for us to consider that we have this enormous potential for effect on our entire economy\u2014on brand New Zealand, on \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D\u2014as a result of one scare from one small potential contamination from one product from one line. I ask the House whether we have given consideration to what the effects on our economy would be if a disaster were to occur on a much greater scale, and if we were faced with a genuine problem around an issue such as foot-and-mouth disease. I think this scare over possible contamination should serve as a canary in the mine shaft to New Zealand. It should serve as a warning as to how vulnerable we are, as to how vulnerable our export-based economy is, and as to how vulnerable all of us are here in New Zealand if our primary sector is threatened. I think it is a good time for New Zealand to look at our biosecurity systems. This wake-up call of an organism potentially leaving New Zealand gives us cause to wonder what would happen if an unwanted organism was to enter New Zealand. New Zealand First is on record as saying that we believe that this Government\u2019s approach to biosecurity means that foot-and-mouth is a matter of when and not if, and when that day comes, that will be truly disastrous for us all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI reiterate that New Zealand First does not rush to judgment on this crisis. We do stand with the Government and with the Opposition in standing with Fonterra, and ensuring that we do have a resolution to this issue as soon as possible. But I think that at the same time it is necessary for us all to give serious consideration to how severe an outbreak could be. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf852e4c3cd348198d0e2603ce119774\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf852e4c3cd348198d0e2603ce119774\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Like others across the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296c079326dd64fc8bc5aa70c48a6fea4\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a 5-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b59c96172ca486e9fd5a85e8eb49698\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Like others across the House, I say that no one would wish this day to have come. This is about \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D This is about an industry that is 26 percent of New Zealand\u2019s exports with 35,000 workers plus an estimated 10,000 self-employed, we believe. I thank the Government for its response, but, like others, I say that it seems to us as observers\u2014and these are questions for another day\u2014that if it is the case that Ministers were blind-sided, as they possibly appear to have been, then substantial questions need to be answered in coming days and weeks, once we are through this crisis, as to where we got to in the last few days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThis is about, firstly, as others have said, the safety of the smallest individuals\u2014children\u2014both in New Zealand and in other jurisdictions. We have to continue to do everything that is humanly possible to ensure that that safety continues and that children do not fall foul, either in our jurisdiction or internationally, of the difficulties that we are now in with these milk products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EEqually linked to that, of course, is New Zealand\u2019s international reputation. A reputation can be destroyed in this day and age in a millisecond and can take months, if not years, of work to restore by both the Government and the private sector. The only way we maintain and enhance that reputation is by ensuring that our international markets and those Governments and regulators in foreign jurisdictions have trust and confidence that we will communicate clearly, that we will communicate consistently, that we will do all that is within our power\u2014and I include in these comments, of course, Fonterra\u2014to ensure that these matters are remedied. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI welcome the Government\u2019s response in response to the Labour Party and Opposition parties\u2019 comments that this is above politics and, of course, it is. There are times in this Parliament where we need to rise above politics, when the national interest is at stake, and one could argue in fiscal terms that the national interest is indeed at stake. I would say in response to Minister Kaye and to Minister Groser that it may well be appropriate, given the non-partisan nature that we have over this issue, that they may wish to extend to Opposition parties briefings about these particular issues we have in common. To date that has not occurred. We know that there have been other and greater priorities, and I acknowledge those, but I say to those Ministers that if we are serious in joining together to resolve this, then those briefings are important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ECan I make one other comment, and again it is a matter for coming days, but there needs to be, as others have said, a full, open, and transparent set of inquiries into these matters. I note, I believe from either a Minister or the Prime Minister\u2019s response today, that the feeling is that there should be a Fonterra inquiry and a Ministry for Primary Industries inquiry. Can I make the suggestion to those Ministers that that is all well and good, but if we are trying to restore confidence in foreign jurisdictions, I think it will be necessary for an independent form of inquiry that goes beyond the Government department and that goes beyond Fonterra. I think that, given the publicity that is in the China Daily Mail and others, it would not be acceptable for Fonterra to be inquiring into itself, or for the Government department to inquire into itself. There needs to be somebody of standing, somebody outside those regimes, who can make a full account of the facts, put that in a transparent way, and put that account before Parliament and the people of New Zealand, and enable Minister Groser and others to take that out to foreign jurisdictions and give assurances that are independently verified that these matters will be resolved and will not occur again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ECan I say, finally, to those in Fonterra that they will need to look very, very carefully at their conduct over this issue given melamine, given dicyandiamide, and given this. They must explain, they must communicate, and they must be consistent not only to the parents in New Zealand and foreign jurisdictions but also to international markets. Sadly, I think they have been found wanting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022 data-id=\u00222d8722300c224360be8751f3731bc9d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d8722300c224360be8751f3731bc9d9\u0022\u003EHon TIM GROSER (Minister of Trade):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, I would just like to acknowledge to my colleague Mr Cosgrove that I have taken very careful note of your constructive suggestions. You will understand that I cannot go beyond that. I think all of us understand that there is a very high degree of unanimity in this House on this matter, and I think that it has got certain common elements to it. The first and most important common element coming through clearly from all of the leaders\u2019 speeches and subsequent comments that we have just heard in this snap debate is a deep concern for the very, very young children who could be affected. Thank God we have not heard reports of that so far. Also, so closely associated with that is deep concern for their parents, their caregivers, their grandparents, their relatives, and all of these people who worry about these little people, because of the intense emotional bond that you feel to one of your own at that age. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003ERather than talk about this in generalities, I would like to talk about it specifically. I do not know whether members noticed, but half an hour ago I was in the visitors gallery with two of my own little mokopuna, Lucia and Sophia\u2014reflecting the Italian heritage of part of my wider family. They are visiting me, their grandpa, from Hong Kong. The elder little girl was about 8 months old when the disaster in 2008 occurred over milk poisoning, and I had just been appointed, informally, Minister of Trade to replace my parliamentary colleague Phil Goff, and was sent on a plane to the APEC leaders meeting. At that stage we did not know whether it was New Zealand milk. We did not know what the cause of it was. Just before I got on the plane, my daughter-in-law, who was also up there half an hour ago, rang me and said: \u201CCongratulations on becoming a Minister. Now you are the Minister of Trade, you\u2019ve got to do something about this, because I can\u2019t find infant formula for your granddaughter.\u201D\u2014who was the child up there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003ESo I went to make an appointment with the Chinese Minister of Commerce, Chen Deming, who would also be very well-known to Mr Goff, and at the end of this discussion, in which neither of us really knew what was going on, other that dozens of babies in China were going to hospital with renal failure, for reasons that neither of us really knew at the time, I told him this story in slightly more diplomatic terms. And he paused and he said: \u201CThis is extraordinary, because I have just received the same phone call about one of my granddaughters.\u201D It is moments like that when you realise how completely trivial positions are and that, at the end of the day, human beings are speaking to human beings across cultures with exactly the same concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EMembers will appreciate that I have tried to do what I can for the parents and caregivers of children in China today. I have been speaking to China Central Television, one of the main Chinese television channels, trying to convey our sympathy and understanding for the uncertainties of the situation they are in. But I do think we should acknowledge that this is a very testing time for the caregivers of these children. As I say, thank God we have not heard of any illness so far, but, for technical reasons that I do not really have time to go into, you should not read too much optimism into that statement because of the delays that can occur under certain clinical conditions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EI do appreciate that members outside a small group of Ministers\u2014well, not that small; eight Ministers are involved in this\u2014have not been briefed properly by us for the reasons that Mr Cosgrove was alluding to, fully understanding the need for priorities here. But one thing that I can put to rest immediately is that the Director-General of Health and his senior officials have been intimately involved in this. The front face in terms of the media has been the Director-General, but I can assure members that the Ministry of Health is deeply involved, and I personally heard the Director-General in one of our teleconferences at least once with his technical advisers talking about the health aspects of this. This will slowly emerge as we are able to have more time to brief people more fully on these issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EIn the very brief time that I have left, just let me assure members that in terms of my part in this puzzle, I will leave no stone unturned to try to both deal with the immediate human concerns of our customers and then contain the economic damage to our country for all the reasons that are stunningly obvious. Just to make one final concluding comment, I am optimistic that with the proud record of this country\u2014we are a small but sophisticated country\u2014we will find our way through. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u00228e7826cebfd54beb95af2c727fb85785\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e7826cebfd54beb95af2c727fb85785\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Minister for Primary Industries):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks for the opportunity to make some comments this afternoon in what is a very important debate. It is important because of health and safety and food security. It is also important for our exports and, overall, our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI think it is important to remind everyone in the House that our primary sector exports make up about 72 percent of our total merchandise exports and are, indeed, a crucial part of the New Zealand economy. As a small country of around 4.5 million people, food production is hugely important to us. We feed about 40 million people and we export to almost 200 countries around the world. We have been renowned for our food production, and, indeed, over about a century we have been exporting some of the finest food products to all of these different parts of the planet. Of course, that is underpinned by our high-quality food safety systems, biosecurity, animal welfare, and, indeed, environmental management. They all form a part of underpinning our exports to almost 200 countries around the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EImportantly, when you get out from New Zealand\u2014and I have been lucky enough to go on a couple of trade missions this year: one to Latin America with the Prime Minister, and one when I led a delegation to China recently\u2014when you look back at New Zealand, and when you are in other countries and you hear them talk about all of those things that I have just talked about, they are fundamentally important to exporters. We need to ensure that we do the utmost to hold up our integrity on the world stage as the producer of some of the best and finest food in the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EImportantly, this particular incident that we are discussing in the House this afternoon is disappointing. It is disappointing that it has occurred. Consumers are disappointed, the Government is disappointed, our trading partners are disappointed, and our hard-working farmers, who get up at 4 a.m. or 5 a.m. every morning and produce a high-quality food product, are disappointed as well. We will, however, get through this. It will knock our reputation around a bit, but we will be stronger. We will be stronger as a country from this event into the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThere are a whole lot of questions that we all want to ask and, indeed, we want answers to, and at the appropriate time we will be able to get the answers to those questions that we all so desire. Right now, the focus is on the health and well-being of our children, particularly, and our families, and I want to acknowledge the work that Minister Kaye, Minister Ryall, and Minister Goodhew have done in this space. I also want to acknowledge the work that Minister Groser has done on the international stage in reaching out to our markets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe response across the Government has, I believe, shown to the New Zealand public how importantly we have treated this issue from when Ministers became aware of it on Friday afternoon. We set up a ministerial group. Officials from a number of agencies have come together and, indeed, have worked all weekend. I have been impressed by our all-of-Government approach and, indeed, I have been keeping in touch with the industry, and its response has been consistent. Food safety is the top priority for New Zealand, and we need to do what we can to assure New Zealanders and our export markets that we are taking this very, very seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe industry groups have expressed deep disappointment that this has happened, but they are committed to doing what they can to assure New Zealanders and overseas markets that, as an exporting food nation, we treat these food safety issues extremely seriously. We will get through this. We will be stronger for it. Thank you for the opportunity to make a contribution this afternoon on what is a very important issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022518028c6394b4998bbaef2811367d4a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022518028c6394b4998bbaef2811367d4a7\u0022\u003EHon JO GOODHEW (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Well, right from the earliest moments of this incident, our first thoughts were for the safety and security of our food. In our health portfolio roles, both Minister Ryall and I were intricately involved right from the beginning, and it very quickly became apparent that our most vulnerable citizens\u2014our youngest children\u2014would be those most at risk if their milk formula powder should be contaminated with Clostridium botulinum. From the earliest time on Friday, as other Ministers have expressed, Ministers from across portfolios joined together to look from all angles at how we could work our way through this incident\u2014the Minister for Food Safety, Nikki Kaye; the Minister for Primary Industries, Nathan Guy; Minister Ryall and me; and the foreign affairs and trade Ministers McCully and Groser, along with other senior Ministers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EI want to say right now that I feel for the families who, through this time, have worried about what information should be in front of them. Those parents are of course hungry for information, and it would be fair to say that as information has changed and as the information put before the Ministry for Primary Industries has improved in its quantity and quality, then more information has been able to be conveyed to parents. As many members here in the House will know, two products have now been recalled. I want to lay on the record of the House today, again, the names of those two products: Nutricia Karicare Stage 1 New Baby Infant Formula\u2014that is, from birth\u2014all batches, and Nutricia Karicare Gold\u002B Stage 2 Follow-on Formula, from 6 months, all batches. There is a recall currently under way. I urge any families using those products to return them to the place of purchase. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EIn terms of the role of the Ministry of Health, its role has been to maintain vigilance regarding any possible cases of infant botulism, and I want to just remind the House of the symptoms that people should be looking out for: poor feeding or a weak suck on the part of a baby or toddler, lethargy and floppiness, a weak cry, facial weakness, and an impaired gag reflex. But, in essence, if there are any concerns on the part of a parent, they should ring PlunketLine or Healthline, or take their child to a doctor. In terms of Healthline and PlunketLine, well, their volumes have increased significantly. That tells me that our messages about the phone numbers, which are consistently going out via websites and other media, have been heard. Yesterday PlunketLine had 1,500 calls. It has done a wonderful job, as has Healthline, of gearing up the numbers of people who are taking shifts to respond to the increased numbers of calls coming to it for the advice that families so eagerly seek. I just want to actually thank those people who are staffing those lines for the extra work that I know they have done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EIn terms of the other roles the Ministry of Health has, they are around working to ensure the adequacy of supply, and that includes the adequacy of supply to our paediatric units, our baby-care units, and, in addition to that, maintaining the information that goes out to general practices, so that the doctors whom families go to for advice are also completely up to date with what they need to know. These are the roles that the Ministry of Health has undertaken. It has sat at the table, through the Director-General and his senior deputy directors-general. They are sitting round the table, keeping Ministers informed, and working with the Ministry for Primary Industries. This is a concerted, united front, so that we can present the very best of information to the public of New Zealand, to reassure those families who will be concerned with the most up-to-date information that we have before us. So I just want to finish by thanking all of the people within the health sector who have done their bit to reassure those families and to say to the House that we are really hoping that soon the families will be able to look back on this and be sure that their babies are fine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022a736c9e157db472aaefe702531224582\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a736c9e157db472aaefe702531224582\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014West Coast - Tasman):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora to the people in the gallery. Like many people in this House, I am a parent. I am the father of five beautiful daughters, and although I am a great advocate of \u201CBreast is best\u201D, I, like most parents, have relied on infant formula to sustain our helpless but beautiful babies. We have got up in the middle of the night to mix the formula to make the milk. That is the only thing that our infant babies live on. That is why, around the world, people have reacted so strongly to this. It is an emotional issue\u2014what we feed our children\u2014and we should realise that. No parent should make any apology for being concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI have been a dairy farmer. I can appreciate the effort that goes in to providing clean and pure milk to the company. I was also the chairman of a select committee that set up Fonterra back in the year 2000. So I understand that companies set up through the legislation had some advantages, but they also had with the legislation clear responsibilities. Fonterra was to be, of course, given its size and importance to our economy, the guardian of a reputation that had been built up by generations of people that the dairy industry produced the safest and best food in the world. As the primary industry spokesperson on behalf of the Labour Party, I am now supporting the Government and supporting Fonterra to get out around the world and reassure all our customers that the food that we produce from this country will be safe, will be pure, will be suitable for customers, and will meet every one of their expectations, including safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EClearly, we have had a problem here. A mistake has been made and we could spend a lot of time here trying to analyse time lines and what went on and what could have been done. The most important thing now is that we support the Government, the Government agencies, and Fonterra to get out around the world to explain how we produce our milk and milk products in this country, and to give people an assurance that the systems are fine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThere are, of course, questions starting to emerge today from China news sites\u2014questions around the laissez-faire market ideology that does determine some of the current thinking by Government. In our own papers we have got: \u201CIs Fonterra Too Big For Its Gumboots?\u201D. Then we have another reference here to Fonterra harming New Zealand and itself. We know these things. That is why it is important that we act together to resolve this as quickly as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EFonterra is our single biggest company. We are proud of it. It is the single biggest exporter of anything from this country and our economy relies upon it. It is a hybrid cooperative. In this House recently we made changes to legislation that did expand a number of the masters that Fonterra should answer to. As a pure cooperative, it was first and foremost to answer to its farmers, and that was the traditional way of thinking. The new world, which both farmers and the new unit holders through Trading Among Farmers realise, is that it firstly must be responsible to its consumers, to its customers\u2014the people who buy its products\u2014and must always keep in mind that the health and safety of those consumers and of its workers should be its highest priority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe farmers who have owned this company, and who do so along with unit holders, investors, today, are aware of the emerging, as I say, reality of social media, of media and communication that can send around the world at a flash any concern that might emerge from Fonterra\u2019s operations and from its products, and they have to be on top of that reality. Nothing should be hidden from the processes and the products that Fonterra produces in this country. As I say, I think the priority that Fonterra must state clearly to the public\u2014more often perhaps to politicians\u2014is that the health and safety of its consumers through its products, and the health and safety of its workers at its worksites, is the No. 1 priority for it. Production, growth, and profit are all things that flow from good management, and I wish Fonterra all the very best with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI think it is important to point out the growth that the dairy industry has sustained. It has helped this country grow, but it does create some reality, I guess, for those looking at Fonterra from the outside. In 1990 the whole dairy industry produced about half a million tonnes of product for the world markets. About 5 percent of their total production gets consumed in New Zealand and that has been consistent right throughout. This year the company will export to the world about 2.7 million tonnes of product. There has been, from some farming leaders, reference to the fact that the tonnage involved here\u201438 tonnes\u2014is a very, very small percentage of that total production. That is true. None the less, that small amount of contaminated production is something that the world is focusing on and we are focusing on, and we have to get that sorted out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EOne of the questions I have raised\u2014it is not cheap politics but it is a real question\u2014is about the Government agency, the Ministry for Primary Industries, and its ability and capability to get alongside Fonterra to help resolve this as quickly as possible. I did go and look at the funding for that agency to ask whether it has been funded, because I was encouraged by the Prime Minister\u2019s statement that all possible resources will be committed to resolving this and to reassuring our customers. The question I must ask, and it is one that will be answered down the track, is whether the actual cutback in funding for the Ministry for Primary Industries has been at the right time, when the dairy industry growth has been so phenomenal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWe have had a meat industry report\u2014again, meat striking trouble and some challenges getting into the Chinese market\u2014that identified that there were insufficient resources to properly follow through with the changes in accreditation and assurances that the Chinese market needed. The question I ask, and it is for the Government to answer at some stage in the future, is whether the cutback in funding from, indeed, $427 million in 2008 to $417 million in 2013 at a time of rapid growth, particularly into markets, has, perhaps, in some way contributed to this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI go back. As I say, we are supporting the Prime Minister. He has given an assurance that all possible resources will be used. Our leader, David Shearer, has said that there needs to be questions asked of Fonterra\u2019s systems and the interaction. There will be time for that. Of course, the Minister for Food Safety, Nikki Kaye, said that Ministry for Primary Industries staff would be placed at Fonterra sites. That is welcomed. One of the issues may be\u2014because the reality is that the dairy industry is a self-regulated industry, unlike many others in the food industry\u2014whether the Government is considering moving back to slightly more regulation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThere will be international observers. They will not be watching us here in the House\u2014they do not have to endure that\u2014but they will be looking for assurances from Parliament, and I think it is important to give assurances. We take food safety very seriously. This is a piece of legislation that is due to be back before Parliament to be passed, and which governs the way that we deal with all food in this country. Rest assured we have good legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe focus, as I say, on safety for consumers and workers must be the primary consideration. Indeed, it is the primary consideration after a few lessons around worker safety that we have learnt, but particularly around food safety. It is the No. 1 focus and priority, and it is committed to and supported by all parties in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe second thing is that we have good systems of food production in this country. They may not be perfect, but anyone in the international market place can be assured that they are next to perfect, and that, in fact, what we have identified here through an audit process, through testing, is that we have had a problem. That is something that acknowledges that the systems do work. We have got a healthy democracy. We have got a robust system of accountability back to Parliament. All the food produced in this country will ultimately be observed, tested, audited, and checked by Parliament, and our customers should be sure that we will be looking after their interests in the long term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd92eb1a116a4263a766edf6272c64e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd92eb1a116a4263a766edf6272c64e7\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E I want to, firstly, commend our team of Ministers for what obviously has been a very strong response to a very difficult situation. For New Zealand this is a critical issue. It alerts us to the importance of the dairy industry to New Zealand and, more important, it has reminded us of the importance of food safety to this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EToday I had the opportunity to ask Minister Groser what reports he had received of international reaction to the potential contamination of whey protein concentrate and what measures the Government will be taking to reassure overseas markets and consumers of our position. The Minister of Trade\u2019s answers and knowledge of these issues reinforce the expertise that this country has and has been able to apply to this most critical of issues. I think, again, I want to commend the whole team of Ministers who have put a lot of work into this issue over the last 3 days. It is particularly important to this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI think also worth noting are the efforts of the chief executive of Fonterra, who was on the plane to China as quickly as he could be, and although there is a significant amount of work to be done to understand the ramifications of this issue and what caused this issue, I think Fonterra has reacted in a manner that is befitting its place in this whole issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EIt is worth noting again the Prime Minister\u2019s statement that now is not the time for recrimination. Now is the time to ensure that consumers have the best information possible available to them. However, having said that, we need to understand in the fullness of time the reasons for the initial uncertainty, the reasons this contamination took place, and the reasons that, I guess, there was some uncertainty about the timing of the announcements that were made as a consequence of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EIt also reinforces for New Zealand the need to track all of our product and part products from paddock to plate. That is something that our food industries, our meat industry and all other aspects of our food industry, have been particularly fussy about, and something, of course, that the National Animal Identification and Tracing legislation enforced, or reinforced, for the cattle industry in New Zealand, and it is no doubt an issue that will follow into many other of our products or paddock-placed products that end up on the plate in this country. So it is really important that we have that traceability and that we understand where those products have gone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI referred in the course of that little discussion to the part products. Of course, the dairy industry is a manufacturer of numerous part products that make up end products. This is the issue that we face with this whey product here today. It is a product of which very small parts can be added to all sorts of things, from energy drinks to milk replacer products and, in fact, to calf milk products. That is another product that has been recalled in the course of this process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EBecause of the nature of this country we are all feeling the effects of this. We are all feeling for those parents of possibly affected children. We are all affected by any possible damage to our reputation as a producer of great food products. We rely on our reputation for our future and our country\u2019s living. I have listened carefully to all the debate, comment, and questions on this issue today, and I would like to commend all speakers for their constructive input. I also want to add, having listened to all speakers today, that were I a mother, father, or member of the public, I would feel I had been much better briefed on this topic as a result of today\u2019s discussion. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002236a21d28b4284902bf1c06094766a323\u0022\u003EMaiden Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221b69b3ebf4de4921b460ccfc6d308334\u0022\u003EMaiden Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u00228d3b025cd59843a1a733e57c0a4472b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d3b025cd59843a1a733e57c0a4472b9\u0022\u003EMEKA WHAITIRI (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E E ng\u0101 mana, e ng\u0101 reo, e ng\u0101 k\u0101rangaranga maha o ng\u0101 hau e wh\u0101. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. It is with honour and humility that I stand in Aotearoa New Zealand\u2019s House of Representatives as the member for Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti. I wish to first thank and acknowledge the many wh\u0101nau, iwi, and friends who are here in the public gallery and who have travelled to join me in this historic moment today. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou. To my parliamentary predecessors who passed the M\u0101ori Representation Act 1867, which led to the formation of the four M\u0101ori seats\u2014Northern, Western, Southern, and our own beloved Eastern\u2014and to the inaugural member who held the Eastern seat, T\u0101reha Te Moananui, and to the first M\u0101ori woman member, Iriaka Matiu R\u0101tana, kei te mihi, kei te mihi. To my fellow M\u0101ori MPs in the House today, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EOur nation is founded on the blood, sweat, and toil of generations of men and women who worked the land, on our wharves, in the freezing works, the shearing sheds, with railways, and in forestry to build our nation and our economy into the stronghold that it is today. In 1916 the New Zealand Labour Party was founded on a single kaupapa: to be the voice of change for the working-class people. As this nation has evolved so has the party. But the founding principles remain the same: to care for the poor and the disenfranchised, and to speak up for those within our community who cannot for themselves. In 1935 in the first Labour-led Government the Rt Hon Michael Savage, in his wisdom, formed a political alliance with the R\u0101tana Church, a precursory step to forming an allegiance with iwi M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EThe bond between the New Zealand Labour Party and the electorate of Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti is unique and entrenched in its own right. From 1943 to 1996 and from 1999 until today, Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti has entrusted the Labour Party to advocate for the rights of its people; a relationship that expands some 70 years. But I state this as a friendly reminder: this historic relationship should never be taken for granted. The relationship between iwi M\u0101ori and Labour-led Governments has progressed considerably since 1935. Under Labour the M\u0101ori Trade Training scheme was introduced, Te Reo M\u0101ori was recognised as an official language, and under the strong influence of the Hon Matiu Rata the Waitangi Tribunal was established to address Treaty grievances. However, iwi M\u0101ori have not forgotten the challenges to this relationship in recent times, particularly with the introduction of the foreshore and seabed legislation and the T\u016Bhoe raids. Despite these challenges it is now time to move forward, and to shift our focus to what lies ahead of us as a party and as a nation, towards the game-changer known as the M\u0101ori economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EThe Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti electorate extends from the East Cape of the North Island to the Wellington region, and includes Gisborne, Hawke\u2019s Bay, and the Wairarapa, as well as most of the Hutt Valley and Wainui\u014Dmata. Almost one-quarter of these residents in Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti speak Te Reo M\u0101ori. This compares with barely 4 percent in New Zealand overall. Over one-quarter of those employed in the electorate are in the agriculture, forestry, fishing, and manufacturing sectors. We have strong iwi within the electorate: Ngati Porou, Te Aitanga-a-M\u0101haki, Rongowhakaata, Ngai T\u0101manuhiri, Rongomaiwahine, Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu, Ng\u0101ti Rangit\u0101ne and Te \u0100tiawa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EDuring the 6 weeks leading into the by-election I had the opportunity to speak to our people, who were clear with me about the needs of wh\u0101nau. Our people need jobs. Our rangatahi need opportunities here at home. Our kuia and kaum\u0101tua need access to quality health services. Everyone deserves a warm, affordable home. Everyone deserves a fair go. The national unemployment rate is 6.8 percent, but for M\u0101ori in the Hawke\u2019s Bay unemployment is two times that, at 13.8 percent. Long-term unemployment on the East Coast has increased from 10.9 percent in December 2008 to 19.8 percent in March 2013. In the Wellington region, which includes the Hutt Valley, unemployment went from 3.6 percent in December 2008 to 7.9 percent in December 2012\u2014that is an increase of 9,600 people who are unemployed. The people of Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti need quality, sustainable jobs. The manufacturing sector, which employs many M\u0101ori, has taken a hammering in my electorate: 125 jobs at Cedenco Foods in Gisborne in 2009 gone; 304 jobs at Ovation meatworks in Waipukurau in 2011 gone; this year 70 jobs at New Zealand Post Petone gone; and between 50 to 80 jobs at Godfrey Hirst\u2019s woollen mill in Dannevirke gone. The flow-on effects of these job losses on wh\u0101nau and small communities are devastating. The people of Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti need quality, sustainable jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ESo what can be done? Local solutions to local problems working with local champions is a community development approach focusing on job creations that I have seen work successfully in times of despair. There are many local champions on limited resources doing their bit to help those most in need. I salute our community advocates, unions, churches, schools, businesses, marae, and iwi M\u0101ori organisations, including the M\u0101ori Women\u2019s Welfare League and the M\u0101ori Wardens Association, for your compassion, caring, and sense of community commitment. Regional development is critical to the success of the nation\u2019s sustainable economic growth, and more needs to be done at the regional level. In Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti it is about people as much as it is about market drivers. Oil exploration and dams that wipe out complete valleys are not sustainable. There are alternatives, and greater investment in regional research and development will show that. Developing high-level strategic goals with community movers and shakers encourages ownership and, therefore, commitment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI worked for many years in the Community Employment Group of the former Department of Labour. We were as diverse as the communities we supported. Company Rebuilders\u2014retired executives who work with many company owners on the brink of closure to keep them afloat and, by association, save jobs. Super Grans\u2014retired people who assisted young people with budget advice and meal preparation. Our \u201CLabour shock response team\u201D provided much-needed coordination and support when sudden job loss announcements were made, through establishing temporary resource centres to help with finding alternative employment, career counselling, and CV preparation. And Mainstreet, a small-town renewable initiative, showed that with a lick of paint and a few pot plants, out-of-towners would stop in small towns where once they would drive through, bringing much-needed money to the local economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EA similar approach was taken with a small community whose major employer closed its doors, leaving nothing to absorb the many redundant locals. Every community has a unique point of difference, and after a series of community planning meetings the locals in casual conversations joked about how whales visiting their coastline was their unique point of difference. The rest is history. Whale Watch Kaik\u014Dura is now a multimillion-dollar business that not only employs many locals but has almost single-handedly been the catalyst for economic growth in Kaik\u014Dura and the surrounding district. So what can we learn from these initiatives, from this approach? Government has an enabling role to support hap\u016B, iwi, and communities to create sustainable solutions for wh\u0101nau. The key word here is \u201Cenable\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EThis era is the beginning of a M\u0101ori economic renaissance, and recognises the M\u0101ori economic powerbase that has been fought for by wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi on the streets, in the courts, and most recently at the negotiating tables with the Office of Treaty Settlements. I pay homage to the many men and women, some no longer with us, who have worked tirelessly in pursuit of justice and equity through the Treaty settlement process. It would be remiss of me not to acknowledge the Hon Michael Cullen, the late Hon Parekura Horomia, and, more recently, from the opposite side of the House, the Hon Christopher Finlayson for their collective commitment to settling Treaty grievances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EThe role of iwi M\u0101ori in a post-settlement era is to grow and protect its asset base and to create intergenerational wealth. Innovative iwi M\u0101ori are exploring opportunities and how these opportunities provide wider returns. Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua has committed to getting its own people into affordable and sustainable homes, and Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu has recently purchased Taut\u0101ne farm to act as a catalyst to unlock the economic potential of other land blocks, to provide an investment opportunity for recently settled hap\u016B groups, and, ultimately, to provide jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EInvesting and creating opportunities for their own people is unquestionably applaudable, but is it not the responsibility of iwi M\u0101ori alone. The role of Government is to enable innovation that will create jobs. Tailored regional investment in areas like research and development, technical internships, and encouraging multipartite arrangements including iwi M\u0101ori, local government, businesses, schools, and unions will accelerate this form of innovation, just like the Whale Watch Kaik\u014Dura example. I am convinced that what is good for iwi M\u0101ori economic development is good for the nation as a whole. If this great nation of ours is looking for a game-changer, then I am offering one: regional investment in partnership with iwi M\u0101ori to unlock inherent opportunities that will create real jobs throughout the electorate and for the people of Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti. I come into this House with a commitment to work with any party that has policies that work\u2014policies that create sustainable jobs, warm and affordable homes, quality health services, and clear pathways, be it in education, training, or jobs for our rangatahi and people of Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI was raised in a loving wh\u0101nau, surrounded by values-based role models, many who shaped who I am today. I wish to acknowledge some of them. Firstly, I would like to acknowledge my great-grandmother Reremoana Hakiwai n\u00E9e Paratene, who gave relentless service and unconditional love to her family, to her faith, and to her beloved Hukarere Girls\u2019 College. On behalf of my late great-grandmother and the Hukarere community, we need to complete the chapel. Her daughter, my grandmother Ruruhira Robin n\u00E9e Nepe Apat\u016B, known affectionately as Aunty Lulu, was renowned for her ability to keep our men, when speaking from the paepae, from straying off topic with a certain glare. Suffer fools she did not. And my dear uncle Pong Wyllie, father of the former member for Te Tai Tonga, T\u016Btekawa, who taught me the value of work\u2014hard work. A man who never minced his words, his brutal honesty and cheeky charm would disarm the most disconcerting amongst us. He taught me that there are no shortcuts in life\u2014you get out what you put in. Finally, the late Hon Parekura T\u016Breia Horomia, who taught me to love our people, to serve our people, and, amongst all else, \u201Chold the line\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EIn summary, I have spoken about the real issues facing our people of Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti. I have spoken today about the historic relationship between Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti, the New Zealand Labour Party, and the Government. I have highlighted the challenges and, moreover, identified emerging opportunities and an approach that would assist to create sustainable quality jobs in a post-settlement era. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ETo every single person who supported me throughout the arduous and well-fought by-election, thank you for your dedication, commitment, and heart to retain the Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti electorate. To my fellow Labour caucus colleagues\u2014in particular our leader, David Shearer, Moana Mackey, Nanaia Mahuta, and Annette King\u2014thank you for your time, your resource, your energy, and your wisdom you gave my wh\u0101nau and me on the election trail. To my parents, W\u012Bremu and May Whaitiri, thank you for your love, thank you for your sacrifices, and thank you for the opportunities you provided to all five of your children, and for carrying on that commitment to our children, your mokopuna. To my sister Joanne Rowe, who besides being the typical big sister was for 14 years Parekura\u2019s out-of-office support. You and your girls went to extraordinary lengths to support him over the years\u2014none more than over his last few months. From the electorate, thank you very much for caring for our chief Parekura. To my sons Nohorua and W\u012BRangi, thank you for being awesome young men. The world is both your oyster, and all I ask is that you make the most of your opportunities at school, on the sports fields, and particularly in your next YouTube clip for next year\u2019s general election. Finally, to my partner Kiritapu Lyndsay Allan, your unconditional love and support know no end. Thank you for all that you are; thank you for all that you will be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI am proud to stand before this House as the Labour Party member of Parliament and the first elected woman for the Eastern and Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti electorate. As a mother, a daughter, and product of hard manual-labouring parents I present myself to the New Zealand House of Representatives as a humble servant of the people of Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti and to our great nation Aotearoa New Zealand. May I be judged on my actions and held accountable to those whom I seek to represent. N\u014D reira, e te iwi, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EWaiata\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 5.54 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab4ea0e96fb84723bc426c0f38c3fb37\u0022\u003EGovernment Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ef363fae0d364886b44baaa145b9d6db\u0022\u003EReferral to Government Administration Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002294e29321193e469d85051dddfd4cb988\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294e29321193e469d85051dddfd4cb988\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill be discharged to the Government Administration Committee for its consideration, including hearing the Police, SIS, Defence Force, Government Communications Security Bureau, and any other appropriate agencies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bec7b1afae8946178791c16b459f7e80\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; Independent: Dunne.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227a86833da025487a9963df306342b6c7\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002254f59f8ae2524f83a93e9bf89fac99a7\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Government Communications Security Bureau Act 2003\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u00220a35f7f596d84b5da0e6b5baa1ee8f14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a35f7f596d84b5da0e6b5baa1ee8f14\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E Part 1 of the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill deals with amendments to the Government Communications Security Bureau Act 2003. I thought it would be helpful if I outlined to the Committee 12 key aspects of the changes that are set out in the bill. The purpose of these changes is to provide a clearly formulated and consistent statutory framework, to create a greater oversight regime, and to update the Act to respond to the changing security environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EAs I say, there are 12 key aspects. The first deals with definitions and interpretation. If one looks at section 4 of the 2003 Act, one sees that it contains definitions of various terms that are now outdated and require replacement, amendment, or repeal. They include definitions of \u201Ccomputer system\u201D, \u201Cforeign communications\u201D, \u201Cforeign intelligence\u201D, and \u201Cnetwork\u201D. The amendment bill inserts a new definition for \u201Cinformation infrastructure\u201D to replace the definitions of \u201Ccomputer system\u201D and \u201Cnetwork\u201D and to take into account the new ways in which communications are carried and stored. The definition is a broad one, and it is there to make sure all the ways of communication are indeed captured. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe next key aspect I wish to tell the Committee about deals with clause 6. Sections 7 and 8 of the 2003 Act are replaced. The first is the objective of the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB). The current objective section is a lengthy statement of what the bureau contributes to in the interests of New Zealand. The bill proposes an objective clause based on the current section but greatly simplified and clearer. So the bureau will contribute to the national security, international well-being, and so on. Then we have a replacement for section 8, dealing with the functions of the bureau. Section 8 of the 2003 Act sets out three functions: foreign intelligence, information assurance and cyber-security, and cooperation and assistance to other entities. What has happened here is that this aspect of the functions of the bureau is spelt out a lot more clearly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe bill repeals and replaces section 8 with four new sections, sections 8A to 8D. They set out the three functions more clearly and specify the limitations and restrictions that apply to each of those functions, so foreign intelligence is covered by section 8B, information assurance and cyber-security by section 8A, and cooperation and assistance to other entities by section 8C. It is very important to focus on section 8C and the greater restrictions and limitations that are put around this function. The agencies that can be assisted are limited to three named agencies and the bureau is going to be subject to the limitations, restrictions, and oversight that the requesting agency is subjected to. The Hon Mr Dunne has a Supplementary Order Paper, Supplementary Order Paper 308, that is going to tighten up that aspect even more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI then come to the principles of the legislation. In actual fact, the 2003 Act does not contain any principles, but the bureau, as a core public sector department, comes under the provisions of the State Sector Act 1988, which means it is subject to the Public Service Code of Conduct. Section 8CA sets out the principles underpinning the performance of the bureau\u2019s functions. An explicit set of principles is inserted, and these are modelled on the principles inserted in the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service Act 1969. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022456c30c5401d4f01b43dc11fb331b0c4\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Who\u2019s going to enforce them? How are they going to be enforced? Who will know?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298a24078b63e405ebb8458940d3fc12c\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Those principles include acting in accordance with the law and human rights standards and in a manner that facilitates effective oversight. Another important point, I say to Mr Little, is that there is a requirement in section 8CA that the director must regularly consult the Leader of the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThen we have provisions relating to the appointment of a director. The current Act provides that the director is appointed by the Governor-General on the recommendation of the Prime Minister. Cabinet decided in 2010 to involve the State Services Commissioner in managing the appointment process. This was done through the Cabinet Manual, pending an opportunity for the review of the legislation, and so the bill incorporates the Cabinet Manual process into statute, making the management of the appointment more transparent. The same process provisions are going to be inserted into the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe next clause, clause 12, is a critical clause dealing with section 14. The bureau is not to target New Zealanders\u2019 private communications. The current section 14 was intended to codify the basic premise underpinning the bureau\u2019s operations. However, the way the basic premise was incorporated into the Act meant that it applied not only to the foreign intelligence function but also to its two other functions\u2014unfortunately, some sloppy drafting there. So the bill retains the fundamental premise but section 14 is amended to make it clear that it does not apply to cyber-security or to cooperation and assistance. Where New Zealanders\u2019 communications are to be intercepted, then additional safeguards have been put in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe next aspect concerns warrantless powers. The current Act provides for the interception of communications without a warrant in certain limited circumstances. Those warrantless powers are retained, but are further restricted. The bill makes it clear that the warrantless powers cannot be used if a New Zealander is involved. The next provision I want to talk about concerns warrants and authorisations. I refer the Committee to the existing sections 17 and 18. The bill repeals those provisions and replaces them with clearer and more consistent provisions set out in a better order, and I refer honourable members to sections 15A to 15F, in clause 14. Significant new limitations are added, in particular a requirement that any warrants involving New Zealanders must be issued jointly by the Minister and the Commissioner of Security Warrants, and, more important, that privileged communications\u2014legal, medical, and religious\u2014as set out in the Evidence Act 2006, cannot be targeted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EUnder the existing legislation there is no requirement for record keeping, but under the proposed legislation the information must be recorded for every warrant and be put in a statutory register available at any time for the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security and the Minister to review. Mr Dunne\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper will provide some further information in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EVery important, under the existing legislation on the subject of immunities, there is an immunity provision, but its effect is uncertain and unclear. The new legislation tightens this up, and there is an immunity provision that, basically, is modelled on the Search and Surveillance Act 2012. That immunity provision is not absolute. A bureau employee will still be subject to legal proceedings if he or she acts in bad faith, unreasonably, or outside their powers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI have two final points. One concerns incidentally obtained intelligence. The current Act allows intelligence about New Zealanders that is incidentally obtained during foreign intelligence operations to be communicated to other people if it relates to serious crime. Section 25 of the Act is replaced to make it clearer when, and with whom, such intelligence can be shared. The intelligence can be communicated only to public authorities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EAnd, finally, there is the issue of protection of personal information. The bureau is currently exempt from principles 1, 5, 8, and 9 of the Privacy Act 1993. In 2011 the Law Commission recommended that those principles should apply, and so the bill addresses that issue. The director will be required, in consultation with the Privacy Commissioner and the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security, to formulate a policy on the protection and disclosure of personal information that complies with those principles. So they are the 12 key aspects, and I think it would be very helpful if we could address those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022b23842c700344ae896fd05524d73ecbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b23842c700344ae896fd05524d73ecbe\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E The last point in that 12-long list from the previous speaker, Chris Finlayson, is, I think, particularly relevant in light of what happened today in the protection of private communications and private property. We had the Prime Minister just 2 weeks ago telling us that he had nothing to do with the handing over of a journalist\u2019s private communications, and here we have him today, knowing that the chief executive officer of his own department, whom he seems not to talk to at all, has actually been in the possession of emails of a journalist and Peter Dunne for a very long time. Going through that episode just emphasises what this bill, the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill, is all about. It is about the balance between security and privacy, and if there was one incident of that in the past few weeks, it was that on 31 July\u2014last week\u2014the Prime Minister said something, and something else was the case when they dumped all those emails on Friday. That really is the reason why we are not supporting this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThis bill has been rushed through. It has not been informed well enough. It has not stood the test of what we would expect in order to change the legislation in the way that it actually has been. We, for example, asked for the SIS, the New Zealand Police, and the Ministry of Defence to appear before the Intelligence and Security Committee. None of those agencies was permitted to appear before the committee, because the chair, who has the casting vote, said he did not want them to. Why? Because he wanted to rush this legislation through without us being able to get much better information. And that is the reason that the balance between privacy and security is completely the wrong way round. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister says that, as part of this bill, we have all the checks and balances there. But let me tell you this: the Prime Minister, as we found out earlier this year, appoints the head of the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) and the SIS. That person happens to be his friend and meets with him one on one without anybody else around. One on one they meet together. The Prime Minister also sits on the oversight committee, the Intelligence and Security Committee. He chairs that committee, he has the casting vote, he sets the agenda, and if anybody wants to put any other item on that agenda\u2014as Russel Norman and I well know\u2014of course it is voted down. It is immediately voted down. The Prime Minister also appoints the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security, who looks into these affairs, and he appoints the Commissioner of Security Warrants, who issues the warrants to spy on New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EI do not want to impugn the integrity of those people who have been appointed to those positions, but what we have is a system that is not about checks and balances; it is about one man holding that authority. And if there is any demonstration of how that authority can be abused, it has been in the last few weeks when that Prime Minister blamed a contractor for handing over emails and phone records. Today what we are finding is that it was not about a contractor; it was actually about the Prime Minister\u2019s own office asking for those emails and those phone records. Not only that but those emails and phone records came in and were held by the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet for over 3 or 4 weeks without the Prime Minister being told. Well, we are told that by the Prime Minister. There are only three options, really: firstly, that the Prime Minister is not telling the truth about being informed by the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet; secondly, that he is woefully ignorant of what is going on in terms of what is actually happening, and that person is not handing over the information he needs, which means that it is an incompetent department that he is running; or, thirdly, that he has actually explicitly told people: \u201CDon\u2019t tell me. I don\u2019t want to know.\u201D because it is a whole lot better not to know. He did this with the John Banks report by saying: \u201CI don\u2019t want to read that police report, because then I\u2019ll have to know, and then I\u2019ll have to do something about John Banks.\u201D [Bell rung] Mr Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bb72a405efb4daabbbdd5ece998b0b0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I am just going to make a comment, if the member would like to resume his seat. I understand that this is a matter about which there is some contention, but the standard in Committee is that we are debating Part 1. I will give the member another call, but we ought to be debating Part 1. This is not a general debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022355b0b973b5b4b9695aedc8b67b3628e\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair. I am getting to Part 1. It took a little longer to get through the context to get to Part 1. Part 1 is about the appointment of the head of the GCSB. What we are saying is that we are submitting Supplementary Order Paper 305, a Supplementary Order Paper that calls for an independent, wide-ranging inquiry within 1 month of this law passing\u2014if, indeed, it unfortunately does pass. What that would mean is that an inquiry would be set up. The terms of reference would be agreed right across Parliament. The inquiry would have at least three persons on it\u2014persons of standing, people who are able to command respect in their fields. Our Supplementary Order Paper would also introduce a sunset clause into this bill so that the bill would expire within 12 months, so that an inquiry would be able to go through. It would be able to have the appropriate amount of consultation, we would be able to draft and push through a new law based on that inquiry, and the current legislation would simply sink into the sunset, as \u201Csunset clause\u201D suggests. That enables us to have the law round the right way, rather than the wrong way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EWhat we are trying to do now is to charge ahead and fix a bill that is being rushed through in response to a political problem, not a bill that comes from the good evidence and good recommendations that would come from an inquiry. That has been our position from day one. It has been our position from the end of last year. Unfortunately, we are not likely to get this law stopped, because Peter Dunne, who is here in the Chamber listening to this, has given Mr Key\u2014what is the expression\u2014he has sold his vote, and Mr Key was a willing buyer of his vote. As Mr Key said to me: \u201CWe need only one vote to get across the line.\u201D This is what he means by consensus: \u201CYes, you can come in with us if you like, but, actually, I\u2019ve got the votes, so you don\u2019t need to.\u201D That is consensus. Is it picking up the phone? No. Is it office to office communication? No. Was there any form of communication between us initiated by Mr Key because he wants this bill to have more cross-party support? No, absolutely not. He has got that vote, all he wants is that vote, and it is just about getting Mr Dunne, the willing seller of his vote, across the floor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EIt is deeply ironic that Mr Dunne right now is deeply immersed in the current goings-on and the shenanigans of this Prime Minister, who is misleading Parliament and misleading the public\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbc1a45816d341f6ac2bf73fe146abed\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Come back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a0f1e34ebc84993a64d5543c3a85b22\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014about his role in this bill. Mr Dunne is still supporting this legislation. He is supporting Part 1, including the appointment of the head of the GCSB by the Prime Minister, despite what has happened and despite the fact that his personal emails have been accessed. Who knows whether they have been looked at, because the GCSB, the subject of the bill we are debating here today, certainly has the powers to open attachments. I have no doubt about that. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet might not be able to open an attachment, but I can be very sure that the GCSB has those sets of skills that enable us to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003ESupplementary Order Paper 305 does what we believe is the right thing to do. It starts by providing for a proper inquiry into our intelligence agencies\u2014not just the GCSB but right across the board. It brings to the fore something that we have not had an independent inquiry on since 1976. That was the last time we had any independent inquiry into our intelligence agencies. Many, many people are saying to me that this is exactly what we need to do. From there we move to the legislative change that is necessary to set up a structure that would have the confidence of New Zealanders, because right now this bill certainly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00229569d39467494b5998b90a57fcab8250\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229569d39467494b5998b90a57fcab8250\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to pick up where David Shearer left off, about the fact that what the Government would purport that this Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill does is, in fact, restore the confidence in the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) that has been lost. The reality is that, under the watch of John Key, public confidence in the GCSB has dropped to an all-time low. The reality is that this bill, and in particular Part 1 of this bill, will do nothing to restore the confidence of New Zealanders in the GCSB. In large part, that is because the Prime Minister has said, and claimed right throughout this debate, that this bill does not extend the powers of the GCSB. That is a completely laughable claim. Almost every submitter who came before the Intelligence and Security Committee, the statutory committee\u2014every submitter bar one who came in front of that committee\u2014said: \u201CThis extends the powers of the GCSB, and there is no case being made for it.\u201D Not only is the Prime Minister just plain wrong and misleading New Zealanders by trying to say that this is just a clarification of the legislation, that is what the explanatory note of this bill says; it says this is a clarification. It is not. It is an extension of the powers of the GCSB without justification from this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhen we look at the case that the Government has made for this, we see that it knew about problems with spying\u2014arguably illegal spying\u2014last year. Was there an urgent piece of legislation put into the Parliament saying that New Zealanders\u2019 lives were in danger and we needed to ensure that the powers of the GCSB were extended? No. The Government tried to cover that up initially, through the Prime Minister. When, eventually, it was forced out into the open, we went through the process that we went through to get this bill up now, and then the Prime Minister had a sudden rush of urgency. That is when John Key suddenly decided that the whole thing was incredibly urgent, because it was time for him to stick a band-aid over the wound to this Government that is the GCSB. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhen Chris Finlayson stood up earlier on he was running through his list of 12 commandments, and when he came to new section 9 in clause 7, about the appointment of the Director of the GCSB, he said: \u201CHere we will finally codify the situation we have where the State Services Commissioner is the person who advises the Prime Minister on the appointment of the Director of the GCSB.\u201D Well, if only that had been the case. If only that was what John Key had done when he appointed Ian Fletcher, except he did not. He got on the phone to his mate and told him to ring the Chief Executive of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet\u2014who, I notice, Mr Finlayson, is not mentioned in new section 9 in clause 7 of the bill. There is nowhere in there that says that the appointment of the Director of the GCSB will happen after the Prime Minister calls his mate and tells him to ring someone who is on the appointment panel to get some advice. That is what John Key did this time around. It is all very well for Chris Finlayson and John Key to say: \u201CWe\u2019ve got this process now around the appointment of the Director of the GCSB that\u2019s so much more transparent.\u201D, but the reality is that what is put in new section 9 here today is actually the very thing that John Key rorted\u2014the very process that John Key rorted when he made that phone call to Ian Fletcher, when he got his mate appointed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhy is that important? Why is it important that we have some confidence that the Director of the GCSB is appointed in a transparent way? It is because more often than not it is just the Director of the GCSB and the Prime Minister who are making the decisions, who are in the room, having the conversations about New Zealanders\u2019 rights. Today, tonight, in this piece of legislation the power of the GCSB is extended explicitly to spying on New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d54fceafee64d85839107629bf673ad\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Which bit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff1d534b888a497ea531e950fad81f92\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CWhich bit?\u201D, says Anne Tolley, \u201CWhich bit?\u201D. Read the bill\u2014read the bill\u2014because that is what is there. Explicitly this bill does that. It starts, Mrs Tolley, right at the start, with a change to the functions of the bureau. It starts, right at the start, to expand the powers. New Zealanders\u2014most New Zealanders\u2014accept the fact that we need security intelligence agencies. We need agencies that are able to ensure that New Zealanders\u2019 national security is protected. But what New Zealanders want reassurance about is that those powers will not be abused and misused, and that there is proper oversight in place. They want to know that as we move into a new era of technology, where New Zealanders make great use of that technology, their every communication will not be spied upon. They want to know that their privacy will be protected in this new age. What we see in this legislation is, in fact, that the definition of things called \u201Cinformation infrastructures\u201D are broadened out\u2014there they are, they are broadened out\u2014so that that definition covers everything. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThere is something in there that is effectively location data. Almost every person in this Chamber and watching this on television will have some kind of smartphone or access to some kind of smartphone that has location data on it. From today the ability is there for the Government to be able to use that data. Right around the world\u2014and this is one of the things that this bill completely fails to take into account\u2014people\u2019s attitudes around the privacy of their electronic information are changing and evolving. People are beginning to understand more and more about the reach of the State into what can happen with their electronic data. At that very time, that is when the National Government decides it is time to expand the powers of the GCSB so that it can roam freely about electronic information provided by New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d45e3ec440e24e43838375dd1d9318d4\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish! Which bit\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b88916c63b942d1b659f045f15b0422\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is not rubbish, Mrs Tolley, and it is time that the National Government actually listened to what New Zealanders are saying\u2014actually listened to what New Zealanders are saying\u2014about the privacy of their communications. What New Zealanders want is to have security intelligence agencies that have the powers to do the job that is needed to ensure that New Zealanders\u2019 safety is protected. But they want to make sure that that is balanced with proper oversight and with protection of New Zealanders\u2019 privacy. What this bill does is get that balance wrong. The Law Society came to the committee and said that the balance is wrong. The Human Rights Commission came to the committee and said that the balance is wrong. The Privacy Commissioner wrote to the committee and said that the balance is wrong. New Zealanders from all walks of life are looking at a Government that no longer cares about their privacy, and that no longer cares about getting that balance between security and privacy right. That is the major problem that this side of the Committee has with this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhen we look at the clauses in Part 1\u2014in particular, the changes around the functions of the GCSB\u2014we can see in clause 6, section 8C, a significant change in the way that the work of this agency is done and why it is now cooperating with other agencies to facilitate their functions. What is clear is that it can do that for anything\u2014it can do that for anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022161f8fc16f73481da45276a478eee6bf\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: This is a load of rubbish and you know it. Absolute claptrap.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229709464e18124e83a88d8372088eab1d\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Very defensive, Mr Macindoe. He will not get a call. He will not get a call. Sit down\u2014sit down. Tim Macindoe will not get a call, because the National Party does not want to front up to New Zealanders on this legislation. Section 8C in this bill expands what agencies can work with the GCSB. The question for Mr Finlayson and National members is what happens with that data. What happens with that information? Will New Zealanders\u2019 information be retained in New Zealand, or will it be available for other countries to look at? That is the question that New Zealanders are asking. [Interruption] Well, Mr Finlayson does not appear to know the answer, Mr Mallard, because he will not get up and be honest with New Zealanders about the expansion of these powers and what they mean. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIf we look at the other parts of the functions of the bureau, what this bill does is say to the GCSB that it now has a wide mandate. Its mandate now goes beyond foreign intelligence functions; it goes into cyber-security. And it goes into cyber-security without the proper checks and balances that New Zealanders would expect. If you would allow me just to briefly mention something in Part 2, because it is relevant to Part 1, you go all the way through this bill with all the expansion of powers, and then you get up to section 15A, which is inserted by clause 14 of the bill. And just to make sure that we all know what is going to happen with this bill, it says that it applies notwithstanding \u201Canything in any other Act.\u201D\u2014notwithstanding \u201Canything in any other Act.\u201D That is any Act\u2014it could be the Crimes Act; it could be anything. That is how loosely this has been defined. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOn this side of the Committee we oppose this legislation. David Shearer has proposed an excellent Supplementary Order Paper 305, which would actually see a review of all of our security intelligence agencies so that we could get legislation that New Zealanders can have confidence in, so we can restore some confidence to security intelligence in this country. Under John Key\u2019s leadership it has reached an all-time low. It will stoop even lower if this legislation passes today. I urge all parties, including Mr Dunne\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8694c39bb9046eda85226633a24d7d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8694c39bb9046eda85226633a24d7d5\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the Green Party tonight to oppose this Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill. We are focusing our comments here on Part 1, which is probably the most substantial part of the bill. I have put up a series of substantial amendments to Part 1\u201410 separate amendments that try to deal with some of the worst aspects of this bill. Although it is hard to fix this bill, because it is fundamentally flawed, we have put up a series of amendments to try to improve the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe first amendment that I want to talk about is the amendment in Supplementary Order Paper 316, which is about including metadata in the definition of communications. Metadata, of course, is like the data about data. If we were to use the recent example of Mr Dunne\u2019s emails, when the Henry inquiry accessed Mr Dunne\u2019s email logs without his permission, it accessed his metadata\u2014so that was whom he sent emails to, whom he received emails from, the subject of those emails, the time they were sent, and whether there were attachments\u2014but that did not include the actual content of the emails. This is what is called metadata. There are those from the Government side who argue that the definition of communication includes metadata, but I think that that is not really very clear. So what we have suggested in this amendment, using Supplementary Order Paper 316, is to make sure that metadata is included in the definition of communication. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EI think that the recent experience of the Dunne and Vance emails is relevant to this amendment. The reason why it is relevant to this amendment is that in the mind of the Government\u2014in the mind of the Prime Minister\u2019s office and the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet\u2014when it was considering the Henry inquiry, it drew a distinction between Mr Dunne\u2019s metadata and the content of Mr Dunne\u2019s emails. So it thought it needed further authorisations in order to read the content of Mr Dunne\u2019s emails than it needed to read the metadata around them. So even though the Government has at times argued that metadata and data are treated the same by this piece of legislation, when it came down to applying some kind of principles\u2014whatever principles Mr Henry had in mind when he conducted his rather unusual inquiry\u2014in practice, what we saw was that the Prime Minister\u2019s office and the inquiry established by the Prime Minister clearly differentiated between Mr Dunne\u2019s metadata, which they did not seek his consent to access and which they just stole from his email accounts, and the content of Mr Dunne\u2019s emails. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ESo when we come to consider this bill, what is clear, I think, is that we do need to establish right up front that the definition of communication needs to include metadata, because we have seen from the practice of this Government just in recent weeks that this Government believes that it can have access to all our metadata and it does not need to ask us. It can go into my email account or anyone else\u2019s email account and steal our metadata\u2014whom we have emailed and whom we have not\u2014because the Prime Minister believes that that is his right. It is his right to steal our metadata if he is running some inquiry into some security breach; therefore, he can go in and read your metadata\u2014whom you sent emails to and whom you got them from, whom you phoned and whom you did not phone\u2014rather than the actual content of those phone calls. So I believe it is important that we make the amendment to make sure that it does include metadata at this point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe second amendment of the 10 amendments to this part that I would like to talk about for the moment is an amendment about deleting new section 7, in clause 6 of the bill. This is essentially to keep the existing objective of the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB). The purpose of this is that a fundamental aspect of this bill that we have in front of us tonight is to transfer the GCSB from what was supposed to be a foreign-focused agency\u2014it was supposed to be turning its surveillance activities on the rest of the world, not on us. But under the bill that the Government is proposing here tonight, it is proposing to turn the powers of the GCSB against New Zealanders. That is what the significance is of new sections 8A and 8C. Basically, this agency, with all these powers to intrude into our lives and to read our emails and listen to our phone calls and track our movements, can now be used against New Zealanders, whereas previously, when it was established under the 2003 Government Communications Security Bureau Act, it was very clear that it could be used only against offshore interests and people from overseas. Section 14 of the existing 2003 Act is very clear that it could not be targeted at New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, of course, what we saw in over 80 examples is that the GCSB did target New Zealanders, even though it had no lawful authority to do so. So it broke the law and illegally targeted New Zealanders. What it has done is say: \u201COK, we broke the law, so we are going to get the Government to change the law so we can keep doing what we were doing before, even though it was unlawful under the old Act, and no one gets prosecuted.\u201D It is a great agency! I mean, if the rest of us went and broke the law, you would think that someone might be prosecuted, but the GCSB gets rewarded. The Government changes the Act to suit the GCSB, so that it can spy on us. So what I am proposing in my amendment in Supplementary Order Paper 317 is that we keep the existing objective of the GCSB\u2014that is, that it is externally focused. It is not meant to be spying on us. It was never designed to spy on us. The whole idea of the GCSB was that it was externally focused, and it was not about that. So we think that that is an important change to make. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe third amendment that I would like to talk about to try to improve this very flawed legislation is the amendment around clause 6 in Supplementary Order Paper 314. Essentially, what we are doing here is saying that if new section 7 is retained, then this removes the final line, paragraph (c), which provides that one of the objectives of the GCSB is about the economic well-being of New Zealanders. The problem is that if we say that one of the objectives of the GCSB is about the economic well-being of New Zealand and we give the GCSB the power to target us with its surveillance and its attacks on our privacy and our freedom, then it now has a very broad scope. There are all sorts of things that we would do that might threaten the economic well-being of New Zealand. For example, if I were to mention that half of the rivers in New Zealand are polluted, this could well be seen as threatening the economic well-being of New Zealand. In a certain sense I can understand that argument. It does not mean to say that I should not say it; it is true and it is important that we campaign to clean up our rivers. But, in light of recent events, clearly by my drawing attention to the fact that we have very polluted rivers in New Zealand, some\u2014and particularly those in the GCSB, who are very keen on targeting people like me\u2014would say: \u201CWell, you are threatening the economic well-being of New Zealand.\u201D So what we are trying to say is that the GCSB should not have that ability. It should not be a rationale to attack us, by threatening the economic well-being of New Zealand. We want to keep the GCSB externally focused, not coming after us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe fourth amendment that I would like to talk about in this slot is about trying to restrict the ability for intelligence to be shared with any person or office holder. This is my Supplementary Order Paper 315. This amendment removes \u201Cthe ability for the GCSB to report information and provide intelligence gathered to \u2018any person or office holder (whether in New Zealand or overseas) authorised by the Minister\u2019.\u201D This is a very important amendment in light of the Snowden revelations. What we discovered from the Snowden revelations is that the GCSB, which is presumably the agency, is providing vast amounts of data to the National Security Agency. In the information that has been revealed by Snowden, we now know that New Zealand is one of the sources of all the data that is provided to the National Security Agency about internet traffic, phone traffic, and all the rest of it, and presumably the GCSB is providing that information, which largely comes out of Waihopai, to that agency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ESo what we are trying to do here in this amendment is say: \u201COK, even if you do gather this information\u2014all this data about all this information that is passing through New Zealand\u2014we are trying to restrict the ability of the GCSB to pass it to its American masters.\u201D If the agency says it wants all this information, which obviously it does if Snowden is right\u2014if the leaks from Snowden are right, and there is no reason to think that they are not, because they have been verified by the US Government in all cases where we could verify them\u2014then what the GCSB is doing is intercepting all of this data out of New Zealand, and we do not exactly know how, and passing it offshore. So what we are trying to do with the amendment around Supplementary Order Paper 315 is to restrict the ability of the GCSB to pass that information offshore to any person or office holder, whether New Zealand or overseas, authorised by the Minister. This is to try to prevent the Minister saying: \u201COh, well, the American agencies say that they want all the data that is coming down off the satellites and passing through Waihopai. We are going to pass all that data to them.\u201D We are saying: \u201CNo, we do not want you to become a spy for one of the global grid.\u201D\u2014the spying grid that the United States has now established at a global level to monitor all internet-based traffic and all of the emails that are passing around the world through the internet system. We do not want the GCSB to be performing that function. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe reason is that it is incredibly damaging to New Zealand. What we have seen, for example, mostly recently is that Germany has now withdrawn its agreement with the United States about sharing security matters, and New Zealand is now identified as one of those countries that is sharing this data on all of its allies with the United States.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u002201732e629dec4e1496ef9beba0ceb9f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201732e629dec4e1496ef9beba0ceb9f1\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E We have just had two appalling speeches\u2014one from a member who should know much, much better, and I believe does, and one from a member who has absolutely no idea. What I can say is that proper oversight begins with a clear and consistent statutory framework, and that is what this Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill provides for this House and for the public of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EI know that Grant Robertson, for political purposes, has deliberately been very cute with the facts. He knows\u2014and if he picked up the phone to New York, his ex-leader and mentor would tell him\u2014that there is an absolute need for this legislation. Grant Robertson and Phil Goff both know what the threats are out there. This is a dangerous world that we are a part of, and there is an absolute need for the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) to protect New Zealanders when they travel abroad, to protect New Zealand interests, and, basically, to make this a safer place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022802738cf663c4a8a9c4ef450c958e406\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Nobody\u2019s denying that, Jonathan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a7a8506dd8b4a17a8a144ce4261a9bc\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Grant Robertson now says: \u201CNobody\u2019s denying that.\u201D In actual fact, he got up and denied that. What he said, which was totally incorrect, is that this bill widens the powers of the GCSB, and that it allows the GCSB to spy on New Zealanders. That is not correct. It is totally untrue. What this bill does is that it actually narrows the powers of the GCSB. [Interruption] They know it, but they do not want the public to understand the truth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EIf you look at those 88 cases over the last 10 years where the GCSB has had to spy on New Zealanders, they have been cases where New Zealanders have, unfortunately, been involved in, or associated with, terrorism, with research into weapons of mass destruction, with people-smuggling, and with drug dealing. We are not talking about spying on Grant Robertson and his mates at the Wellington Central Labour Party. We are not talking about spying on the people whom Grant Robertson has been stirring up into a fever over this bill. We are talking about people who constitute a very serious threat to the security of New Zealanders. And if you look at every major terrorist event going back to 9/11, New Zealanders have in some way been affected by them. So Grant Robertson and his cronies on that side of the Chamber need to start telling the truth about this bill, rather than playing politics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe Greens, on the other hand\u2014well, what would you expect? That was classic Russel Norman. He wants the GCSB to have just an external focus. Well, I have just explained why the GCSB\u2019s powers need to be very much focused on the welfare of New Zealanders and keeping us safe. He talked about removing the purpose point about the economic welfare of New Zealand. Well, as you should know, as a member of the Intelligence and Security Committee, with the threats that New Zealand businesses and that Government departments are under on a daily basis through cyber-intrusions, there is an absolute need for this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EWhat really is ironic, when you listen to the Labour Party, is that what we are doing here is tidying up the flawed legislation of 2003. I urge all Labour members to read Helen Clark\u2019s interview yesterday with Audrey Young, because that spells out very clearly why this legislation is necessary. Helen Clark is not speaking against this, and I think she would actually be ashamed of the members over there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe other point that they go on to make, quite misleadingly, is that they say that this bill has not gone through the proper process. Well, what other country in the world would you have someone like Kim Dotcom able to sit down at the statutory committee and harangue the Prime Minister? That is how open we have been about it. There have been 123 submissions on this bill. They have all been read and considered. There was a normal length of time for consultation on this bill at the statutory committee. The Prime Minister fronted the committee. It has been a very open and clear process. New Zealanders have had their chance to have their say, and there has been feedback, which has been incorporated into this bill in order to make it, in terms of the oversight, much better in the long term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003ESo I say to anyone listening out there: do not be fooled by the rhetoric of Labour and the Greens, because what it comes down to is that this was flawed original 2003 legislation, which had to be corrected. The GCSB is absolutely needed. Its powers have been narrowed. It needs warrants to work for the New Zealand Defence Force, for the SIS\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u0022de11c89181a14778b1afec436d8f4583\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de11c89181a14778b1afec436d8f4583\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Every Government must ensure the safety and security of its people\u2014that is basic. But a democratic Government must also ensure that the principles of democracy, the right to privacy and freedom of speech, are also protected. Achieving those two objectives is at the core of the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First comes to the consideration of the legislation with a constructive view. We know that we are facing serious and challenging issues. Entrenched, dogmatic, party political positions will not help to frame suitable and necessary legislation in such a complex area, but New Zealand First\u2019s position on matters of national security is clear and unequivocal. The Government must ensure the safety of its citizens. We live in a world of threats: those that are known and some that are still unknown. We cannot naively put our heads in the sand. To ignore the threats posed by extremists and other anti-democratic groups would be nothing less than irresponsible. We cannot be complacent that the terrorism will never be home-grown, and global terrorists do not respect international borders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EOn the other hand New Zealand\u2019s civil liberties must not be undermined by this legislation. People, we think, are rightly concerned about where the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) legislation is leading us, particularly in the light of the leaks and the unauthorised disclosures that have been going on recently. New Zealand First is, therefore, seeking to put in place an effective watchdog that does not bite the very people it seeks to protect. So we have introduced Supplementary Order Paper 323 in the name of Winston Peters, which will create an independent panel to oversee the GCSB\u2019s information-gathering activities. The advisory panel proposed by the Government to assist the Inspector-General, in Supplementary Order Paper 306, is not enough, we think. The panel we propose would be informed when an interception warrant or an access authorisation is issued under section 15A. The panel would be required to review the interception warrant or access authorisation within 15 working days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe panel would be made up of former members of the judiciary, the New Zealand Police, and the New Zealand Defence Force because they must be independent of the police, the judiciary, and the armed forces. The members of the panel would bring to their role an understanding and appreciation of the context of national security. They would be people with an appropriate background, good judgment, and independence in the relevant areas of the operation of the security services. Our Supplementary Order Paper provides a measure of safeguard\u2014a second string to the bow\u2014to avoid unfounded voyages of exploration on New Zealanders\u2019 privacy. Our proposal would ensure that the public could have confidence and trust in the GCSB, despite its having wide-ranging powers. Our proposal strikes a reasonable balance to resolve a complex issue. It is a fair and practical solution to reconciling security with democratic rights and civil liberties. It would ensure that the GCSB operates within the law, and the panel we propose would be well-equipped to see that it does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EWe believe in having strong, clear law that empowers the GCSB appropriately but also provides for robust oversight and review procedures. In a perfect, threat-free world, agencies such as the GCSB would not be needed, but we do not live in such a world. We need agencies and structures to guard against threats to our security and national interests, but it is fundamental that the GCSB must operate in a fully professional manner to safeguard our rights and freedoms. As things stand, we cannot support this legislation. We will not be a rubber stamp. We have put forward a Supplementary Order Paper that provides a constructive way forward to assist the Government to develop an appropriate legislative framework for the GCSB, but we must oppose the bill at this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u00226a429987d7f54129ba49b187e66bcadd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a429987d7f54129ba49b187e66bcadd\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Independent\u2014\u014Chariu):\u003C/span\u003E The one thing that most people agree on about this bill, the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill, is that there needs to be an effective regime to govern our external intelligence agency. That is the starting point for this debate. The second thing I want to say is that this bill\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4362ecdca24416a84678740b4822569\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I want to hear the member who is addressing the Committee. Let us have a bit of decorum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220396e7aaa6374fd28032bdd760867de6\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: The second thing I want to say is that this bill has nothing whatsoever to do with the recent, unfortunate experiences of the Henry inquiry. That set of circumstances could happen under any situation. That has nothing to do with the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) legislation. The third thing I want to say by way of a preliminary comment is that this bill as it stands, as reported back from the Intelligence and Security Committee, is not satisfactory, and that is why I am putting forward a series of amendments that will need to be passed by this Committee and by this House if I am to support the bill further. The reason why I am putting forward those amendments is that they strengthen the accountability provisions of the bill, they actually make it much easier in terms of transparency, and they address all of the major points that were raised by the witnesses who attended the Intelligence and Security Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EMr Grant Robertson spoke earlier and expressed a lot of concern about section 8C, in clause 6 of the bill, and I agree with him. I think that the ability contained\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b21ece9f2c454627ab068995522d709d\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I thought there was a Standing Order in this House that said you could not move seats to gain an advantage to interject, and Mr Cunliffe has done exactly that. His seat is way at the back. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022008f76c3f05743a59e69a6130b7beb32\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e57d9a28c0184794bfc82de02987ca1d\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m happy to speak to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd24b8cfca4e437e8cd3b0e584f044f3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not need any assistance. When the House is in Committee, members move around. I would sooner handle this matter by\u2014[Interruption] Order! This is a point of order; I am on my feet. I think we will handle this by just saying we will have some decorum across the Chamber. While this member has been speaking there has been a barrage, and that is inappropriate. [Interruption] I am on my feet\u2014just be very careful. So let us just have decorum. As I said at the beginning of the debate, it is a matter of contention, but we will make no progress if we cannot hear each other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237b9eaeb4aaf44fe8885740afc58f072\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chairman. The point that I was making was to agree with the concern expressed by Mr Robertson about section 8C in the bill as it stands. What section 8C says, effectively, is that by regulation or Order in Council any variety of existing Government agencies could be added to the provisions whereby the powers of the GCSB could be applied to them in the pursuit of their objectives. I think that is wrong; I agree with him entirely. That is why I have an amendment to delete section 8C in the bill, which means that if there needs to be additional entities added to the purview of this legislation, they will have to be added by way of separate legislation. So, Mr Robertson, you should be supporting the amendment in Supplementary Order Paper 308, which is before the Committee at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EWe will also be changing in that Supplementary Order Paper the warrant provisions to ensure that when a warrant is issued, it is put on a register so that people actually know what warrants have been issued, particularly when they relate to New Zealanders, and so that the GCSB will never be in the position again of having 88 cases of dubious legality. Every year the number of warrants issued will need to be recorded, as will the number of occasions when the GCSB has cooperated with other agencies\u2014information that is not known at the present time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe Intelligence and Security Committee, which currently has a very perfunctory oversight role, has its powers changed by my amendment to ensure that when it conducts the annual financial review of both the GCSB and the SIS, that hearing has to be held in public. At the moment it is held behind closed doors. Members opposite, who want accountability, are presumably now going to vote against an amendment that says that when it comes to the Intelligence and Security Committee\u2019s operations in reviewing the performance of the security agencies, it has to do that in public. Those members are against that, and yet they want more transparency and more accountability. And they talk about a review. They want to have a review of our intelligence services. Under the amendment contained in my Supplementary Order Paper there will be a review early in 2015, and not only then but every 5 to 7 years thereafter of both the SIS and the GCSB. So the cry for a review again falls flat when these members have the opportunity to vote for one and they decide to vote against it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003ENow let us talk about one of the other issues that has been raised throughout this whole debate and that is of critical importance. It is the definition of \u201Cprivate communication\u201D and the issue of metadata, and Dr Norman made some good points in respect of that. The reality is that every witness who appeared before the Intelligence and Security Committee raised it as an issue. Every witness said that it was important to get a solution. No witness offered a solution. I made a point of ringing a number of them to say: \u201CHave you got a definition? Have you got a way through this?\u201D, and the answer I got universally was that, no, it needs to have a lot of work done on it\u2014it needs to be worked through very carefully. That is why, as part of the agreement I have struck with the Prime Minister, there will be work done on the Law Commission\u2019s 2010 report, which deals with this whole issue of the definition of \u201Cprivate communications\u201D, not just in the GCSB legislation but also in the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service Act, the Crimes Act, and the criminal surveillance legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003ESo I simply wanted to make the point that I listened to the major points made by all of the witnesses who attended the statutory committee. I read their submissions and I noted that no one said: \u201CWe do not need a GCSB.\u201D\u2014no one, not even Mr Dotcom. Everyone said they wanted to have tighter accountability, more transparency, more openness, and a better process. I have crafted amendments that deliver those things. So it will be very interesting during the course of this debate to see those who cry for all of those things vote against them when they have the chance to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI started on the point that everyone agrees that we need to change the current situation. The consequence of the actions of members opposite would be to preserve a most unsatisfactory status quo, where you have a GCSB that effectively has no accountability, where you have potentially 88 New Zealanders spied upon illegally over the last decade, with no record of that. That is appalling. The consequence of opposing this legislation is simply that that intolerable situation would continue, and no New Zealander deserves to be treated that way. This bill, with the amendments that I am proposing, will ensure that those days are well and truly days of the past, and that New Zealanders can have a fresh sense of confidence in the way their security services operate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022769b3f3dcb6c4e00a5a4c1cf6f59a370\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022769b3f3dcb6c4e00a5a4c1cf6f59a370\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Peter Dunne, who just took his seat, said that we should take solace from his amendment to section 8C set out in clause 6 of the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill. I want to read out what the Law Society said as to the collective effect of sections 7 to 8D, set out in clause 6, and then deal in particular with concerns about section 8B, which was its greatest concern, and which Mr Dunne\u2019s amendments do not even address. The Law Society said that: \u201CProposed sections 7-8D set out new objectives and functions for the GCSB which, taken as a whole, effectively transform it from a foreign intelligence-gathering agency into an additional domestic spy agency.\u201D That is its overall point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229990fd06b1c54dbdaee8eea2f0fc4d37\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: That is apparently not an extension of power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea4992e0e3744d1987b74ddba37873cb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is right. According to National, that does not amount to an extension of power, but if you look back at the original Government Communications Security Bureau Act, it is very clear that it is about foreign intelligence, not about gathering information about New Zealanders. That is clear from the objective set out in section 7 of the current Act, which says: \u201CThe objective of the Bureau is to contribute to the national security of New Zealand by providing\u2014\u201D, and then it lists \u201C(a) foreign intelligence \u2026\u201D and then \u201C(b) foreign intelligence \u2026\u201D, and then paragraph (c) is in respect of Government departments protecting their computer systems. Nowhere is it about spying on New Zealanders. Then you turn to the current bill, and the Attorney-General can tell me if I have got this wrong, but my reading of the bill is the same as the Law Society\u2019s. It says for a start in new section 8(2), in clause 6 of the bill, that the order in which the functions of the bureau are set out does not create any order of importance or priority. So the order in which they appear is irrelevant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThen we go to section 8B(1)(b), which is the one that worried the Law Society the most. It says that the function of the bureau is \u201Cto gather and analyse intelligence about information infrastructures;\u201D. There is no reference to this being foreign intelligence at all. It is general. It is to gather and analyse intelligence about information infrastructures. The reference to foreign persons in the earlier part of that section does not limit the interpretation of subsection (1)(b). To work out what that means, you have then got to go and look at the definition of information infrastructures. This is what the Law Society points us all to. When you go to the definition of information infrastructure, it is actually not just information infrastructure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e98fba82ac24d51a6da5eb30552f903\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Far from it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235d8be031df74bd2ad1965d7c9610c1b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014far from it; it is any communication carried on it. That is the nub of this bill. If Parliament passes this bill, it confers on the GCSB the ability to gather and analyse information, including communications, carried on technology platforms\u2014absolutely. There is no restriction. This is not under the provisions where there has to be a warrant already given to the police\u2014no. This is quite separate from the debate about whether it should be able to assist the police or the Security Intelligence Service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe Law Society is saying that the effect of section 8B(1)(b) is that we are, for the first time in New Zealand\u2019s history, allowing the GCSB to spy upon New Zealanders and have a look at all of their communications. That is what the legislation says according to the Law Society. Mr Dunne, your amendment is absolutely ineffective at curing that major increase in the jurisdiction of the GCSB. That is, unless I am wrong and the Law Society is wrong and the Privacy Commissioner is wrong and the Human Rights Commission is wrong\u2014because they all say this, in respect of section 8B(1)(b). They say that that is a very wide information-gathering power, which can be used in respect of the GCSB. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EOf course that power has to be in line with the objective of the bureau, but the objective of the bureau is widened as well. So there is no protection to be found in new section 7, which replaces a more narrowly drawn section in the original legislation. We have this very extensive power, so I want the Attorney-General to stand and tell me how it is that we are wrong and how it is that the GCSB is prevented from using the powers that are conferred in respect of section 8B(1)(b) upon New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022 data-id=\u002268a2c96f9ca84a8d8a2e4d1aae587721\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268a2c96f9ca84a8d8a2e4d1aae587721\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I want to refer as well to those parts. I want to refer to clause 6, which inserts sections 8A and 8B. Mr Dunne said before that this bill, the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill, could not apply to him and the Henry inquiry. Of course, it very, very much could if it wanted to be interpreted that way, because you could drive a bus through sections 8A and 8B. You could interpret it, and we know that it would be interpreted as widely, as loosely, as anything. So we could have Mr Dunne\u2019s emails looked at because we could ask what they were all about. They were about a leaked report to do with the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB), and surely\u2014surely\u2014this would be interpreted to include that. Then we would ask in relation to Mr Dunne\u2019s emails whether we needed just his metadata or whether we actually needed to look at the content. The GCSB, of course, would want to be looking at the content. I just want to raise some real questions about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EIf this was in and Mr Dunne was anywhere near, or it had been suggested that he might have leaked a document, of course this would be able to be used to check on him. Then the questions would be raised, and maybe they should be raised even now, as to whether the Prime Minister would tell us whether he or Mr Kibblewhite or Mr Eagleson emailed to the current GCSB those emails that they apparently could not open, the attachments to which could not be opened, so they could not look at them properly and, therefore, they dumped them, as they said. But we know that they did not mind getting them, or did not seem to mind. We do not know that, but we know that the GCSB has already operated illegally with 80-odd people. Did it do that once more in looking at Mr Dunne\u2019s emails and the content of them? We do not know that, because the Prime Minister probably will not answer that question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThe Henry inquiry was about a leaked document. This part would definitely apply if it was in, to allow for a leaked document to be inquired about. This is about Part 1. It is about section 8A, and this would allow that for sure in section 8B. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EI would also ask whether Mr Key, Mr Eagleson, or Mr Kibblewhite looked at my phone records or emails while you were ducking and diving for cover\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae8e45b2a656436392b748d8384cf456\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dbd138ac6a247188c9e1eb5facf3910\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Chairperson. The Prime Minister was ducking and diving for cover when we were discussing Ian Ferguson\u2019s appointment. So Ian Ferguson\u2014Ian Fletcher, sorry. The wrong one. There are a lot of people with \u201Cf\u201Ds in this business, it seems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228099dca203fc4f3fabec20d8499aee93\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Including the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228319dbe5736b439894747e13f8e2c2e0\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I did not quite say that. But in terms of Mr Ian Fletcher and his appointment, I pointed out, and others in this House pointed out, that Mr Fletcher\u2019s appointment was from a friend to a friend and there were some dubious goings on and how that happened. Did they want to know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8f32d97c8ac4b5ca3d502d9d007084a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! We are on Part 1. Focus on Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225eadf05d0244953b35c047c6a5d0194\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING\u003C/span\u003E: In Part 1, I note sections 8A, 8B\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225014767929d3486eac6df1d4f8c524f1\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: And C.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289a3227fbf2545acaa3c7a79162c17b2\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and 8C. Section 8A(c) states: \u201Cto report on anything done under paragraphs (a) and (b) and provide any intelligence gathered as a result and any analysis of the intelligence to\u2014\u201C(i) the Minister;\u201D. It refers to the Minister\u2014the Minister with the power, the Minister who can look at, or ask for, emails, it seems, of anyone. So how many emails have they looked at in terms of members of Parliament who have bothered them in other areas? That is enough on that aspect of sections 8A and 8B.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002207fc1313dbab459889461607f5e59c5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207fc1313dbab459889461607f5e59c5a\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I stand in the Chamber to support the passage of the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill. I have to start, I think, by reading out and giving some context to some previous debates. I would just like to quote from the Hon David Cunliffe, who rose to speak to the original legislation on 27 March 2003. He said: \u201CI do think that the Intelligence and Security Committee deserves some commendation for this bill, because it has sought to balance the need to update and modernise our communications security infrastructure legislation with the need to protect third parties from accidental eavesdropping or interception. The bill does provide a legislative basis for non-warranted, non-authorised interceptions, under specific certain circumstances that are set out in the bill.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e3a14de657140619e54ab447c619d15\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: So who said that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e4b6bda15cc45a2bc4f30e5997b1b67\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: That was said by the Hon David Cunliffe in the third reading of the Government Communications Security Bureau Bill in 2003. It was a very sensible contribution, which, unfortunately, has not been repeated in this Chamber tonight. It was also interesting to hear the previous-but-one leader of the Labour Party, the Rt Hon Helen Clark, who in the weekend backed the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) bill, and said: \u201CI think the real issue is, is there is a gap in the law, which the Kitteridge Inquiry apparently found that there was, and if so, how do you deal with that and do you take the opportunity at the same time to write in more controls to protect the privacy of the individual?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EI submit that tonight we are looking at a bill that actually does exactly what the former leader of the Labour Party is suggesting. In fact, it addresses what New Zealand First is complaining about, and even to a certain extent what the Greens are complaining about. The previous legislation that was passed under a Labour Government in 2003 had significant problems with the drafting. That created an opportunity for the GCSB to act, particularly on behalf of other agencies, erroneously. It was clear in the legislation that there were contradictions. The GCSB over the last 10 years has used interception powers on 88 individuals on the understanding that it was acting lawfully under the law that that Labour Government passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EWhat has now emerged is, of course, that there was a contradiction in the law, and even Helen Clark, the Prime Minister at the time the original legislation was passed, actually admitted that that needed to be fixed. So that is what this piece of legislation in front of us tonight is attempting to do. It is a pity that we have a continual play of politics around this very serious bill. The last time that this issue was in front of the House, Labour proposed the legislation, New Zealand First supported it, and the Greens clearly opposed it because they oppose the need for the GCSB, but the Opposition was thanked for supporting the bill and recognising the importance of the security of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EI just want to talk a little bit about some of the comments that have been made. One comment made during the politicking by Labour members opposite was that public confidence in the GCSB bill is at an all-time low. Well, I would dispute that, but I would also maintain that the misrepresentations by the politicking coming from that side of the Chamber have contributed to the public\u2019s confusion about what we are trying to do here tonight. They have some responsibility for casting aside any responsibility for security for this nation in order to play politics because they are falling in the polls. I think that their leader will come to regret the stance that they have taken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EI have to applaud both United Future and the Greens; the Greens, in particular, because they despise this law. They despise all our spying laws, and they make no apologies for that. That is their philosophical position and you have to respect that. But what they have done is they have come to the Chamber and made some serious, sensible suggestions, not all of them we would agree with, but they have at least attempted to contribute to make the bill better in their eyes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EWhat we get from the Labour Party is that all it is interested in is having an inquiry. It is not interested in fixing the things that are wrong with the previous Act. It is not interested in closing those loopholes. It is not interested in addressing any of the issues\u2014the legitimate issues\u2014that have been raised about some of the legalities of some of the actions in the current Act. All it is interested in doing is playing politics, and all it has proposed is an inquiry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EI would like to focus on section 8, in clause 6. In the existing Act we have a very minor explanation of exactly what the GCSB\u2019s responsibilities were. What this bill attempts to do is to set it out very clearly, and to make it absolutely clear that it has three distinct functions and what those functions are. I would like to just finally concentrate on section 8C, which is about the cooperation with other entities\u2014which actually got us to the position that we are in now, where the GCSB believed that the legislation gave it the legality to act as agents on behalf of. You could drive a tractor through the previous Act. Anybody and everybody could come to the GCSB and ask it to act as their agents. What this bill does now is limit those agencies to three, specifically\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c298ff7bb11943738e6c2b9c51b68eaa\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: It does not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c41989a359894565af7f77ac0e92f5e1\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: It does. It is quite clear. Section 8C(1)(a) mentions the New Zealand Police, section 8C(1)(b) mentions the New Zealand Defence Force, and section 8C(1)(c) mentions the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service. And Supplementary Order Paper 308, which Mr Dunne is putting in, means that nobody else, no other department, no other agency can approach the GCSB and ask it to act as agents without this Parliament deciding that that is appropriate. I think that is a very sensible change, and the Government will be supporting that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EBut I just want to make one thing clear to the New Zealanders who are listening to this debate, because they are really confused. Nothing in this bill gives the GCSB the ability to spy willy-nilly on New Zealanders. If the GCSB acts as an agent for other agencies it has to have the legitimate ability to do it. So if the police go to them and ask them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b980d85d829b4f90896ee519e401c8c1\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: No, they don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be23a583b45a486c883750d6ea40e0c0\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: They do. They do, Mr Little. They have to have a warrant before they can apply to the GCSB to act as their agents, and then they are protected by another addition to this bill\u2014the Independent Police Conduct Authority. So we have strengthened the requirements, we have strengthened the accountability, and that is what makes this a very good bill for the interests of New Zealand security.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022883515e2896a43ada657744c1cb1ffa6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022883515e2896a43ada657744c1cb1ffa6\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I want to first refer back to the speech of Peter Dunne, because I went back and checked what Peter Dunne said 3 weeks ago on Radio New Zealand. This is what he said: under no circumstances should the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) be able to spy on New Zealanders\u2014under no circumstances should the GCSB be able to spy on New Zealanders. Then Jane Patterson said: \u201CNot even with a warrant?\u201D. Peter Dunne said, no, not even with a warrant. On the integrity of this man rests the Government\u2019s ability to pass this legislation, the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill. Peter Dunne has not simply refined his position, he has totally contradicted the position he took before. When asked why, he said that there was a willing buyer and a willing seller. Well, he sold his soul. That was the sale price. What did the buyer give him for that? Some people would be tempted to say 30 pieces of silver. I think it was probably more likely a nice ambassadorial position somewhere. But I have got to say to Peter Dunne that his position makes a mockery of his outrage and indignation that emails, phone records, and swipe card records are being spied upon, because he is facilitating a piece of legislation that does not have adequate oversight to stop that very sort of abuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI want to come to Mr Coleman and Ms Tolley. They presume to speak on behalf of former Prime Minister Helen Clark. They do not know Helen Clark. On this side of the Chamber, we know Helen Clark, and we know those members, and I can tell Jonathan Coleman that Helen Clark\u2019s values have nothing in common with anything he stands for, and that applies to Anne Tolley as well\u2014absolutely nothing in common. So do not come into this Chamber and pretend to speak for Helen Clark, which, actually, in terms of diplomatic protocol, is quite out of order because she is an international official, and those members should not breach that protocol, anyway. Then Anne Tolley comes in and says that the Opposition is politicking with the bill and that normally you would get bipartisan support. I want to say to Ms Tolley that we tried, and I was part of it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220de61cc37ed94dffac397801bb4488c1\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Mrs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270550e36b8b24f598dbd5a8d6ada0482\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Mrs, if you like. She misses the point every bloody time. I want to say to Anne Tolley that we worked really hard to try to find common ground that would balance the need to have security agencies with proper oversight over those agencies, to ensure that the rights and the freedoms of New Zealanders to not improperly have their privacy breached were protected. We tried really hard. New Zealand First tried. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EAs soon as John Key knew that he had his one vote majority, relying on John Banks, the man who could not remember Kim Dotcom, the man who lied about the donation, and the discredited Peter Dunne, whom Mr Key sacked for leaking that Cabinet paper\u2014that is the sort of bipartisanship, Mrs Tolley, that you are after. Once you knew that you had two disgraced members of Parliament that this Government could rely on, no effort was made to get consensus. This party has always supported the need for security agencies, but under proper controls. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThen we had the Orwellian Mr Coleman talking about how this bill does not widen powers; it narrows them. That is straight out of Nineteen Eighty-Four. Well, Mr Coleman, it seems that the New Zealand Law Society does not agree with you. What does it say in its submission? Point 15 states: \u201CIt seems that the underlying objective of the legislation is to give the GCSB powers it lacked previously: the power to conduct surveillance on New Zealand citizens and residents. No explanation or justification for the conferral of this power is given.\u201D That, Mr Finlayson, is what your union, the New Zealand Law Society, told the Intelligence and Security Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI want to speak in favour of Supplementary Order Paper 305, which is in the name of David Shearer. It proposes that there should be a full and independent public inquiry. But in an endeavour to actually find common ground with the Government, it says that if you could show us that there is an urgent reason why you need this legislation, put a sunset clause in and have an inquiry that will report at the time the sunset clause runs out. That is a real effort to compromise, to find common ground, to get broad support, and to get the best possible piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EAnybody who is rational would say that what you do before you decide to make ad hoc changes to the SIS legislation, the Telecommunications (Interception Capability and Security) Bill, and the Government Communications Security Bureau Act is you actually have a full and independent inquiry that would look at a number of things. It would look at why wider powers are being sought. If you are going to broaden the power to allow the GCSB to spy on New Zealanders, for heaven\u2019s sake justify it. Mr Coleman talked about process. There is nothing wrong with process. I am on the committee with Clare Curran that is looking at the telecommunications bill. David Shearer was on the Intelligence and Security Committee. We both wanted the same thing. We wanted the GCSB, the SIS, the New Zealand Police, and the Defence Force to come before the committees and justify the extension of powers. Would the National Government allow that to happen with the critical agencies? No. John Key vetoed the critical agencies being able to even present evidence in private before those committees. This bill is meant to be about openness and transparency if we are to rebuild the confidence in our security agencies, yet those critical agencies were not allowed by the Prime Minister to present evidence or to answer questions. What has that man got to hide that he would not allow that to happen? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWe want to know, in the broad inquiry, whether the agencies are competent and effective. I have worked with those agencies for 9 years. I have got to say that I think that a lot could be done to improve the competency and the efficiency of those agencies. With 9 years of working with them, I think I have got the right to make that sort of judgment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe third thing that the inquiry would look at is what sorts of safeguards are required so that the agencies could do a proper job in looking after New Zealand\u2019s security but not be at risk of breaching those powers. When you have got two insiders, including Marie Shroff, who was Secretary of the Cabinet for well over a decade, saying as Privacy Commissioner that this legislation should not proceed without a broader inquiry, then I say to the Government and I say to the Attorney-General that they should listen to Marie Shroff. She knows how the system works. When David McDowell, the former head of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, says that this bill does not have enough safeguards and that even if we had a Prime Minister who was interested in exercising scrutiny over the GCSB, you could not guarantee that that Prime Minister would be getting the information that he or she needs, you should be listening to those people. They are not wild-eyed radicals; they are people who know the system, know how the system has been abused, and they say that this bill is not good enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EMr Coleman nods his head. His New Zealand Defence Force had on record\u2014he did not know about it; nor did I\u2014that you are subversive if you bring the Government into disrepute. Stand up all the subversives on this side of the Chamber! That is our job. We hold the Government to account. And, worse than that, that Defence Force security manual said that investigative journalists were within the category of being subversive. Investigative journalists were defined as subversive. Mr Coleman, the Defence Force never told you that that was in its manual, yet you come to this Chamber and say that we should give the power under this clause and this section to the Defence Force to be able to get information from the GCSB\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa3af13dedb4412095e5a59a3f4c6383\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266c536ed200041db8cf0450afeae4b6d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! When I am on my feet, there will be silence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df044105e99744f0851f01c2c1ccfd67\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Just for the record, it was the Labour Government that started\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0f3853f63f24943b9559e8c89e9c8d6\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014[Interruption] Order! No. Order! Be quiet. That is not helpful, because that is not a point of order; that is a debating point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fa21ac053a24a2b813baa60e6ece81c\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I would be well compensated by receiving a third call on this bill for that unwarranted interruption. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206e7fcad0c644e818b3336123a8f84ca\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Unwarranted?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f94854ff85f94bb39b616bd2b0c3f716\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Unwarranted, absolutely\u2014no pun intended. The full and independent inquiry is patently necessary, when 40 percent of New Zealanders, Mrs Tolley, say that they have no trust or confidence in the GCSB\u201440 percent of New Zealanders. That does not allow that agency to operate right now with the confidence of New Zealanders, and even less so when it has a further extension\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u002285abdda59ff247848b30613e574ad079\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285abdda59ff247848b30613e574ad079\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E It is very sad that the previous speaker, Phil Goff, has been here for 40 or so years and all he can do is give one speech\u2014a vein-popping performance. He has not looked at the legislation, the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill, but has simply stood up and raved. It is particularly contemptible when one considers that he was Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade for some time, until he had to hand over to Winston, and then he was Minister of Defence. As he said, he has worked\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206d61ee74927433386443172e1ad37ae\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. There are a number of ways in which Mr Peters can be described\u2014the right honourable member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc41de7a36774ae2aca1c77c36d34451\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. From now on we will address members by their correct titles, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ed7ed5212e84eecaf560e7387f5dd5d\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the Rt Hon Winston Peters\u2014such a distinguished member of this place. But what we are getting from the Green Party is a perfectly acceptable approach for the Green Party. For example, when looking at clause 6, which deals with, among other things, introducing a new section 7, the Greens\u2019 approach was utterly predictable and utterly principled. They do not believe in the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB). They do not believe that there should be anything to deal with the economic well-being of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe Greens\u2019 approach in 2001, through to 2003, was that there should be no GCSB. Their approach today is that, and they have raised their points of objection in a principled way. But not so the Labour Party. The Labour Party\u2019s approach, quite frankly, is utterly contemptible. It is a wilful misreading of the legislation before the House. Labour members go on and on about safeguards, for example. They have not referred to one of the safeguards that are set out in this bill. Are they in favour of the privacy requirements that I went through in some detail? Are they in favour of some of the other safeguards? They have a wilful ignorance of them, and would rather just carry out a yelling and screaming function. I find it very disappointing when there is such a major piece of legislation before the House, where there used to be cross-party consensus on these matters, but they have shattered it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EBut let us look at clause 6. I have dealt with the new section 7, and in my first call I went into some detail\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292f1d02825ce444bb20a06f308c4a76a\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: A dissertation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6839423137f4b65957f330c6db86fc7\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: It was not a dissertation, I say to Mr Cosgrove. It was a very careful analysis of each of the key clauses to inform the debate, but, regrettably, they were not listening. Maybe they had been at the Saunders Unsworth function too long, because they stood up and yelled and screamed. But let us look at clause 6. I have dealt with new section 7, and then I spoke at some length about new sections 8, 8A, down to 8C. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ELet us go through it again. New section 8 is designed to spell out very clearly the functions of the bureau. Section 8A, introduced by clause 6, deals with information assurance and cyber security. Section 8B\u2014a very important one, which I will come to again in some detail in a few seconds\u2014deals with intelligence gathering and analysis. Section 8C deals with cooperation with other entities, and I have to say that I believe that the Supplementary Order Paper proposed in relation to section 8C by Mr Dunne is a very good piece of work and we will certainly be supporting it. It tightens it up even more, so that it refers to only the New Zealand Police, the Defence Force, and the Security Intelligence Service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThen we come over to the clause that the Labour Party keeps ignoring, and that is the one covering the rewrite of the existing section 14. If one looks at clause 12 one sees the rewrite. The current section 14 was intended to codify the basic requirement underpinning the operations of the GCSB, that it was not to conduct foreign intelligence activities against New Zealanders. That has been the section where we have come into a bit of rough water in recent times, and rough water when Labour was in power and the member for Mt Roskill was the Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade and the Minister of Defence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe way the basic premise was incorporated into the 2003 Act meant that it applied not only to the foreign intelligence function but also to its other two functions. So what are we doing here? We are rewriting section 14, incorporated by clause 12. It is a critically important clause. What it does is clarify the basic premise that there is to be no spying on New Zealanders, and specifically refers to the foreign intelligence function in section 8B. If you read the words of new section 14(1) one sees that the purpose is clarified, and the safeguards are also spelt out in some considerable detail in Part 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI am sorry, but the New Zealand Law Society is wrong\u2014the Law Society is wrong. What is more, more than a few members of the profession have expressed their concerns to me about the way their submissions were given, by someone who then went to the Mt Albert War Memorial Hall and was making all sorts of extravagant comments\u2014someone who used to act for Mr Zaoui\u2014and at the same time was purporting to represent the Law Society. The thing about the Law Society, to quote a former United States judge, is that it is the bar that makes the statutes, and it is a very important function the Law Society fulfils, to come down to this place to give Governments of all persuasion a good swift kick from time to time, but to do so in an impartial and professional way. Regrettably, the standards were not applied in the case of the submissions on this legislation. There will be more about that later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee1cd4be462449419535a7ef18ea1d6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee1cd4be462449419535a7ef18ea1d6b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I found that speech, when it talked about politicking, and Ms Tolley talked about it as well, quite astounding. The Attorney-General went to a Catholic school, as did I. I am sure he remembers a biblical quote from Proverbs 26:11: \u201CAs a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.\u201D That is what we have seen tonight from that member. That is what we have seen tonight from that member, that Minister. A couple of colleagues have forgotten that one. Go to Sunday School. While we are in a sort of biblical frame of mind, I must say, after Peter Dunne sat down following his speech, I was reminded of that piece in the Bible where the cock crowed thrice. The cock crowed thrice, as Judas picked up his 30 pieces of silver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe question I have for the Attorney-General, as he heaped praise on Mr Dunne\u2019s amendments\u2014if they tightened things up, if they provided some balance, if they improved this piece of legislation, then why is it that the Attorney-General and his colleagues and the Prime Minister, whose name this Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill is in, did not propose those amendments themselves? Why did they not? Would the Attorney-General like to answer that question, being a learned lawyer? Why they did not propose those amendments is quite simple. Because Judas picked up the pieces of silver\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cc743652330450cb81ccd0efcb279b6\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I said earlier on, and made a ruling, that you will refer to members by their correct names.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297df9f037c5943fb8de0b940de2e34c8\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to Judas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f582d72a78a428d864a310027d578ce\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I have just made a ruling, and I ask the member to abide by it. We refer to honourable members in this House by their correct names.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223551f23467ad4341a51bd4f4ec44683c\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Peter Dunne. What I was saying, as I apologise to a person who is mentioned in the Bible, who is no longer with us\u2014the person was Judas Iscariot, who betrayed somebody quite formidable in history. You may want to have a look at that. The Hon Peter Dunne picked up the 30 pieces of silver. What that has translated into, of course, is some sort of guarantee in respect of his longevity\u2014whether that be a political cup of tea to guarantee his seat, whether that be some ambassadorial post to Beirut or Somalia or somewhere quiet, or whether that be some sort of pay-off that the Government is going to give him. Because a couple of weeks beforehand, he was in the dog box. He may have been closer to looking through the striped sunshine, had the Prime Minister had his way. He was in the dog box. We know what he was accused of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d54fedec6b9c4303af8222435dbbafe7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6a56da5b5b248559501dcd9c346d0a7\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The last three Government speakers\u2014the Attorney-General, Minister Tolley\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5c38a2fef3644de868a51e1fb0a01cc\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I am the ruler of that. I am asking the member\u2014he must refer back to Part 1. That is what we are on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203e24cd0c0904e3d931117f8d02ce8a5\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I will refer to Part 1. If you would like me to, I will refer particularly to a clause that the Attorney-General did not address, section 8B(1)(b) in clause 6, which my colleague Mr Parker alluded to specifically in respect of the gathering and analysis of intelligence about information infrastructures. My colleague Mr Parker\u2014of course, the Attorney-General did not address this\u2014noted that any communication carried on those technology platforms would give the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) open slather. To the Attorney-General and to Mrs Tolley and others\u2014the rocket scientists over there\u2014that is not a widening of the legislation or the capability of an intelligence service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut I come back to this, as we address Part 1. The question I raise with the Attorney-General is why he did not propose these amendments. What pay-off is Peter Dunne actually going to get? The last couple of weeks he was in the dog box; now, of course, he has come out with these so-called wonderful amendments that, as my colleague Mr Goff has aptly put it, are diametrically the opposite of his position a couple of weeks ago. No way would he support this bill. No way would he support any enhancement of surveillance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227aa23c42552a487a80d17a851a66a0c2\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Under no circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f843e4ac9ffa495a8c2f0c773395af03\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Under no circumstances, even with or without a warrant, there was no way he would do that. But oh no, when his own political carcass is on the line, when his own political hide is on the line, oh no\u2014anything is possible. The man who put the one vote over the top for asset sales is back there again\u2014one vote to get this through. Mrs Tolley talked about politicking. Well, is it politicking to not seek consensus? Is it politicking to not approach Opposition parties but to talk to the media about it and say \u201CI want as wide a vote as possible.\u201D, as the Prime Minister did, and behind the scenes to make no approach, no phone calls, no nothing, because they had Mr Dunne right in their back pocket? That is the truth. That is the truth about this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI would like to know from these geniuses why it was they did not put these amendments forward. According to Mr Finlayson, the human rights commissioner, the Privacy Commissioner, the Law Society\u2014everybody is wrong. Everybody is wrong. Yes, he nods. Everybody is wrong, and if Mr Finlayson had his way, the deity would be four, and he would be the fourth. Everybody is wrong except him\u2014except him. Yet the Prime Minister does not come down to justify this legislation. The Prime Minister is not taking a call. The Prime Minister did not think of these amendments. It is about the dirty deed. It is \u201Cwilling buyer, willing seller\u201D. It is 30 pieces of silver. It is the selling-out of any principle that Peter Dunne had. You have got to hand it to him\u2014he is a survivor. He is a survivor. This boy will do anything to survive. He is a sort of political limbo dancer\u2014how low can you go with Peter Dunne? He would sell his grandmother if he thought that would get him across the line and give him a couple of extra months. He has sold out New Zealanders with this in terms of Part 1. He has sold out New Zealanders because, as Mr Parker pointed out, section 8B(1)(b) does widen\u2014does widen\u2014the jurisdiction. If Mrs Tolley wants to argue that point, I invite her to get up and address specifically the legal points that Mr Parker made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e879fae25cc0414c97919a946c657352\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no, no, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4d96b808bf64e8b9174589f127223fd\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no\u2014I think it would be worth a crack. It would be worth a crack because then you would pit one brain against something else\u2014one brain against another. I would wager Mr Parker would win that argument. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe other point I would make is that you see a pattern in select committees. When this bill went through the particular committee, the Intelligence and Security Committee, like a number of bills that go through committees in this House, the particular agencies\u2014in this case, the Defence Force, the Police, the GCSB, and the SIS; the key agencies that one would expect you would get in to give you authoritative advice about the nature and breadth and depth of this bill\u2014were blocked by the Prime Minister. That has happened in a lot of committees. We have had bizarre situations where bills have come before committees and the key Government agency that will administer the bill, will provide advice about the bill, is blocked, because they do not want to know. They do not want the agencies coming in, even in private or in secret, the highest classification a select committee can give. These people do not want these agencies to come in to be questioned by Opposition members. No, no\u2014they just want everybody to say yes and agree with them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EOne other point I would make is on an insulting point made by the Government. If the Government tries to make a proposition that we on this side do not believe in the security of our nation, the security of our people, and the need for intelligence services, that is an insult, that lacks credibility, and it says more about Mrs Tolley and her ilk than anyone else in this Parliament. Of course we believe in securing the citizenry of our country. We know and we understand that that requires a capable and quality, but accountable, Security Intelligence Service. We believe in that, but it must be accountable. It must be accountable to the people through the Crown, and it must act in an appropriate way. So for that mob over there to run that silly little spin line, which no one in New Zealand believes, no one in this Parliament believes apart from them, is an insult. It is an insult to all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211952505430a49c8add33c073152841b\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m pleased you take it that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf25b1e0d5374568ab24ee57f895e4d2\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: So I say\u2014what was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228986196f9063409fa8f1bda386e92016\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: I said I\u2019m pleased you take it that way. It is insulting, your behaviour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287afd431267f442a86739c18e4aac97e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it is insulting\u2014my behaviour! I will say this: I hope New Zealanders listened to that member\u2019s speech and that Minister\u2019s speech as she made it up, as that member got up and did not address Mr Parker\u2019s point, and as the Attorney-General got up and poured opprobrium over Mr Goff and others but did not address Mr Parker\u2019s point, of course. Oh no, lawyer to lawyer, he did not do that, because even the Attorney-General knows he lacks credibility when you get right down to the nitty-gritty of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThis bill does widen the powers of those intelligence services. The Government can say it does not as often as it likes, but when you actually look at the micro level and the clauses in this bill, it does widen those. It does not provide the accountability that, say for instance, Mr Shearer\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 305 would provide. What, I say to the Attorney-General, is wrong with a review of legislation to ensure that you get it right before you actually enact it? We could not convince the Attorney-General of that, so Mr Shearer put up a review with a sunset clause in the legislation. Mr Finlayson is a doyen of statutory interpretation\u2014in his own mind at least, anyway\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e59c490c41a416eab28e4d18234b5d5\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Jurisprudential fetish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe34499cbcb74cd88e0e088b0be5f589\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I will not go there. I say this: can Mr Finlayson take a call and advise us the best way to form legislation? Surely an investigation, a review, an analysis of the facts with professional advice, and then writing legislation is the way you do it, logically, or, if you cannot do that, my leader\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022422b46f1df0e4af9b1ddd2b47b3644ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022422b46f1df0e4af9b1ddd2b47b3644ca\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chairperson. Thank you for the call. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to talk about Part 1 of the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill. Section 7, in clause 6, reads: \u201CThe objective of the Bureau, in performing its functions, is to contribute to\u2014(a) the national security of New Zealand;\u201D. New Zealand First has never argued that there is not a need for an agency such as this\u2014in, as my colleague pointed out, a world that is not threat-free\u2014to protect New Zealanders. The conversation from New Zealand First has always been about the oversight so that the bureau itself does not suffer from what is called \u201Cinvisible man theory\u201D. The invisible man theory is that if you think you can get away with something because nobody will see you, then it is highly likely that you will try it\u2014I beg your pardon, Mr Chairperson; it is highly likely that another human being may try it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI am pleased that Mrs Tolley raised two or three points in her speech. The first one is around the playing of politics. Mr Banks also raised this conversation with regard to New Zealand First, particularly in his second reading speech where he said that Mr Key rang and rang and rang New Zealand First but the phone was always engaged. That is palpably false. New Zealand First members reached out to the National Government and said: \u201CWe understand that this is about our country\u2019s security and we want to participate constructively in this conversation.\u201D, but our calls were never returned. National members chose not to actually come across and try to work with the full Parliament for the benefit of this nation. So let us make that 100 percent clear and put on the record that the politicking is not from this side of the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThe other thing Ms Tolley talked about was that the New Zealand public was confused. Apart from that being incredibly arrogant and insulting to most of the New Zealand public, if the New Zealand public is ill-informed\u2014which Mr Key has been on record saying\u2014then it is ill-informed because of the manner in which this bill has been pushed through this Parliament. There has not been enough time given to the New Zealand public to truly understand this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ELet us just say that the Attorney-General is 100 percent correct in everything he says. Let us just assume that\u2014I know it is unlikely, but let us assume it. There should have been the opportunity and the time for the Attorney-General to explain himself clearly to the New Zealand public. Let me just read section 8(3), in clause 6: \u201CThe performance of the Bureau\u2019s functions and the relative importance and priority of the functions, if any, are to be determined, from time to time, by the Director, subject to the control of the Minister.\u201D There is a lack of trust currently in the country around the oversight of the Minister with responsibility for this agency, and there needs to be a truly deep conversation with the public of New Zealand to regain that trust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThe Electoral Commission was in my office recently, where we had a conversation about how we can encourage New Zealanders to continue to participate in democracy, to continue to come out and vote as numbers drop lower and lower. When things like this are pushed through this Parliament so that the people of New Zealand cannot be confident that the Minister with oversight, the Prime Minister, truly has a grasp or is truly working in their best interest, then we start to see a fall-off in democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThat is why New Zealand First has placed Supplementary Order Paper 323 on the record, in an attempt to gain some of that trust back for the New Zealand people. That Supplementary Order Paper would establish an independent body to which warrants, when issued, must be shown after a certain period of time, and by which warrants must be reviewed to check that the reason they were given is truly what is being enacted. And I would also add that we must not forget that this conversation began because a New Zealand resident was spied upon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00224d4388b277b24518addec6286fb59cfd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d4388b277b24518addec6286fb59cfd\u0022\u003EPAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7ce263d11b242c9b2eb8a0276715118\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7ce263d11b242c9b2eb8a0276715118\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to address Part 1 of the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill. In doing so I am going to speak from first principles, and speak to the grave and fundamental constitutional and privacy concerns that are surrounding this bill. Let us restate at the outset that Labour will immediately set up a cross-party inquiry to thoroughly and independently review the effects of this bill, if it yet passes, on our security agencies and on the rule of law. Following that review we will repeal the bill in its current form and replace it with new provisions that get the balance right between privacy, constitutionality, and the rule of law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EBefore taking calls to detail exactly what is wrong with the drafting of the bill and how it must change, let me first state several issues that the bill is not about. Firstly, it is not about Fonterra, although it is intriguing that Friday\u2019s 4.30 p.m. dump of sensitive, stolen emails that implicate the Chief Executive of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet and the Prime Minister\u2019s chief of staff occurred shortly after the Government was notified, at around 12.30 that day, of Fonterra\u2019s imminent disclosure. It takes something akin to botulism to make this bill appear mildly palatable to some. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ESecondly, this bill is not specifically about the details of the Peter Dunne - Andrea Vance email trail. However, the broad context is relevant. Let the Committee and the public of New Zealand recall that those stolen emails related to an inquiry into a leaked document. The document was the Kitteridge report\u2014the damning litany of the legal and oversight failures of the very same Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB). The Kitteridge report was prompted by the fiasco that was the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom, and it transpires that Mr Dotcom was one of at least 88 New Zealand citizens upon whom illegal spying operations have been conducted. For all we know, on that list of 88 might well be current or former members of this House. Let us be absolutely clear: the appropriate response to spies running amok and illegally spying on New Zealand citizens is not simply to legalise that. As others have said, the response to illegal speeding is not to raise the speed limit, and the proper response to theft is not to legalise stealing. The proper response to illegal spying is not simply to legalise the practices that were hitherto illegal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThirdly\u2014and this is important\u2014this debate is not about removing from New Zealand the capability to defend ourselves against foreign cyber-attack. New Zealand needs to have those capabilities and must be equipped to perform them well, but\u2014and it is a huge but\u2014those capabilities should not be deployed against our own citizens except in the most unusual and exceptional and verifiable circumstances, and then only with a judge\u2019s warrant based upon an independent, and thoroughly and substantially evidenced, threshold of proof. The warrant process must protect our citizens from arbitrary mass surveillance, whether performed directly by New Zealand\u2019s GCSB or indirectly by the access of information sourced from other partner-country\u2019s agencies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThis bill should be about crafting rules that achieve a proper, constitutional framework for activities that may be necessary in exceptional circumstances but must never become routine. The definitions of \u201Cinformation infrastructure\u201D in Part 1 of this bill, which include all emissions, all communications transmitted across all networks\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022 data-id=\u002200ba6b6a95f34b91bdb3af3b01d3d65c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200ba6b6a95f34b91bdb3af3b01d3d65c\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to have this opportunity to take a call, amongst many others. We have a lot to say. There is a lot to say about this bill, the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill. I think the New Zealand First speaker Tracey Martin\u2019s identifying the issue of trust is a very important part of the context. Part 1 is about whether we\u2014and I mean the citizens of this country\u2014trust the Government, in the context of the debacles that are going on around here, to actually write a law with sufficient justice and lack of bias that will actually protect the rights of citizens. When 40 percent of people say no, even though, supposedly, they are too confused to understand it, I think there is a message in there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EThe other message around Part 1 is that people like Dame Anne Salmond, New Zealander of the Year, have come out and said clearly that this\u2014and if we look at Part 1, we can see why\u2014is electronic McCarthyism. The younger generation does not really know what that means, but we older people can remember it, and the stories get passed on. Some of us are students of history and do not want to see it repeated just because we are in an age of cyber scrutiny and mass surveillance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ESo let us reflect on the fact that Dame Anne Salmond and 40 percent of New Zealanders do not support this, and that the Law Society, along with other people, came before the Intelligence and Security Committee and clearly identified, clause by clause, issues in Part 1 that were problematic. Not all of them can be stupid\u2014not all of these people who operate as watchdogs on us. We do not get it right all the time in this House, even though many people, other than me, are fantastic lawyers. We are deeply political. This is deeply political, and that is why we need the oversight of people like the New Zealander of the Year and people like the Law Society\u2019s members. It is very disappointing to have those people treated as if they are idiots who are being confused and misled by what is a disingenuous piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EClearly everyone agrees it was time for a change, and Part 1 was supposed to be that change, but this is not it. I reject the Hon Peter Dunne\u2019s suggestion that so long as things are looked over and signed off by the SIS, the Defence Force, and the Police everything will be OK. My personal experience was that I was spied on by the SIS when I was 15 years old for being an education activist\u2014scary, terrifying, a terrorist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224af5684b5ff242308c8f69ac31bfb4be\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you were terrifying. You terrified me!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee6b35b11fe84df9819ba9dc3638a1e0\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY\u003C/span\u003E: It is true. I was at school with the Hon Trevor Mallard, and I think I was terrifying at the time. However, I have mellowed, and he has changed. What I would like to say about the SIS is that, basically, if Part 1 relies on the Thomson and Thompson Tintin people in the SIS, you are going to find a level of incompetence that is not to be relied upon for sign-off. The police, as we know, have not properly apologised, as has the Government not properly apologised, to T\u016Bhoe for what happened at Ru\u0101toki. This is the context of Part 1. It is a context of lack of trust. I think it is important to talk about that context in relation to the Supplementary Order Papers that Dr Norman has put up to try to improve this dog\u2019s breakfast, although in our hearts we know that this bill needs to finish, it should be over. We need a complete review of the entire situation, not a bad bill that will get looked at every 5 years, which is what is suggested in Part 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EThe Government is saying that there are sufficient safeguards in the key clauses. If you look at new sections 7 and 8 in clause 6 of the bill, these have raised major concerns around the formation of the bureau, the idea of cooperation with other agencies, and the links with foreign agencies such as the \u201CFive Eyes\u201D. Why would we worry about that? Part 1 is supposedly addressing terrorism. I ask this Committee, what is terrorism? I am terrified of drones that can be sent from the United States of America to kill off children in the Yemen, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. That is terror. There are many forms of terror in this world. If we are serious about stopping the fundamentalists on all sides of the political spectrum, we are not going to increase mass surveillance of our citizenry\u2014we are not going to do that. We are not going to turn people who simply want to exercise dissent into terrorists. I would argue that the history of spying in the world\u2014and this Part 1 reinforces that by the breadth of the clauses\u2014is always about spying on people who dissent from the Government of the day. That is why we cannot right this by ourselves. We need the Law Society, we need Dame Anne Salmond, and we need my hairdresser, who told me today she was very unhappy with this bill. We need everybody to have a proper say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022 data-id=\u00228cbc6942564644c98782a6ad3f39309e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cbc6942564644c98782a6ad3f39309e\u0022\u003ECLAUDETTE HAUITI (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022b944731b9cdc431da8911c8512661c82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b944731b9cdc431da8911c8512661c82\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Labour\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E I want to pick up on comments made by the Attorney-General in his speech. He said there had been wilful misreading of this legislation, the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill. He then went on and made a gratuitous attack on the Law Society. I thought it might be important to point out that at 3.48 p.m. today the Law Society issued a press statement regarding changes to this bill. We have heard tonight that the Law Society, along with many other very good organisations, respected organisations, including the Privacy Commissioner, Marie Shroff, and others, made submissions to the Intelligence and Security Committee. Today the Law Society put out a press release that said: \u201CGCSB Bill remains flawed despite proposed changes\u201D. Whose name was that press release in? It was in the name of Austin Forbes QC, Law Society rule of law committee chair. The Attorney-General slagged off the Law Society because some non-entity, some person who had an axe to grind, went to a public meeting\u2014he had represented Zaoui\u2014and made a comment. He was another Queen\u2019s Counsel, I gather. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EHowever, the point that I am making is that one Austin Forbes QC, a former president of the Law Society, was a person whom National members believed in very strongly in 2008, when they were in Opposition and the electoral finance legislation was being debated in Parliament. Whatever Mr Austin Forbes said at that time was absolute gospel\u2014it was gospel and they believed it. When he said \u201CThis bill has a chilling effect\u201D, they jumped on it and repeated it week after week after week. Well, I think the Law Society, in the name of Mr Austin Forbes, has said much more about this bill, and maybe the Attorney-General would like to apologise to this very well-known Queen\u2019s Counsel\u2014something the Attorney-General sought for a long time and found great difficulty in getting himself until he got into Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EBut what did the Law Society say today at 3.48 p.m.? It said that \u201Cminor improvements\u201D had been made but they \u201Cdo not address the fundamental flaws in the bill\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ba1bc05b4f544c9bcb3186f94bc5761\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Especially in Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221257ebe9965849efa624443bc9187f65\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014especially in Part 1. It then went on to say: \u201Cthe legislation should not proceed\u201D. It said: \u201Cthe idea of a set of guiding principles is potentially a step in the right direction, but [it was] not convinced that the proposed wording \u2026 provides adequate \u2026 safeguards,\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EIt was also very critical of the dropping of Supplementary Order Papers on any part of this bill at this time\u2014dropped on this bill this day. None of us had seen them. We had Peter Dunne for days saying: \u201CI\u2019m going to bring in Supplementary Order Papers that are going to make a change, because I sold my soul to the National Party, and they\u2019re going to accept my Supplementary Order Papers.\u201D We did not know what they were, the public did not know what they were, and the Law Society did not know what they were, but, of course, Peter Dunne did, because he had done a dirty little deal. So we have the Law Society and Mr Austin Forbes QC saying that this bill is flawed. Well, I would like to quote the Minister for Economic Development\u2014the Government cannot have it both ways. It cannot say, when the Law Society makes a submission on one bill that suits the Government\u2014when Mr Austin Forbes does\u2014that it is a very good submission, and then when it gets one it does not like, say that it is no good. It cannot have it both ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EAnother question I have in terms of this bill is a comment that Peter Dunne made when he said he would not support this bill until he knew what the cost would be if the SIS had the same equipment, capacity, and capability as the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB). Do members remember that? It was only a couple of weeks ago. He would not support the bill until he got the costings, and until he could look at the costings. Well, Attorney-General, what are the costings? What advice was given to Peter Dunne? What was he told would be in the costings in relation to the GCSB having the same capacity as the SIS? So I say to the Attorney-General\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3204d750a0d4e3b8339dc81aa1a65c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3204d750a0d4e3b8339dc81aa1a65c6\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I am going to ask the Minister in the chair at the current time, the Attorney-General\u2014and I will just note that it is apparent that urgent public business has kept the Prime Minister from doing his duties with this bill, the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill, in the Chamber\u2014to indulge his fetish with regard to jurisprudential matters. I am going to give him a technicality on which he can get off. I want to refer him to clause 5(3), which inserts, in section 4 of the principal Act, a paragraph that refers to incidentally obtained intelligence. It states that incidentally obtained intelligence means intelligence \u201C(a) that is obtained in the course of gathering intelligence about the capabilities, intentions, or activities of foreign organisations or foreign persons; but (b) that is not intelligence of the kind referred to in paragraph (a)\u201D. So how can we have intelligence that is obtained under a certain method\u2014about capabilities, intentions, or activities of foreign organisations or foreign persons\u2014but is not that? I am sure the Attorney-General will have a simple legal explanation for it, but it seems to me that if something is not something, then it cannot be something. That is what this clause says.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022588dbfd4bb8444bf82d6c5fb651906c9\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Known unknowns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022942a9e0c199c44a1ae0eda3e98c87bc0\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225969f2b91e5544728c0636c02b350cbc\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Known unknowns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221324b1756a784314be9872bfd543d256\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, known unknowns, says the member. It is the unknown knowns, I think, in this particular case. I accept that although I have been around this place for some time, I am not a lawyer, and there might be a good explanation for intelligence, which is not around all the time in this bill. But I think in the Government Communications Security Bureau connotation, it is intelligence \u201C(a) that is obtained in the course of gathering intelligence about the capabilities, intentions, or activities of foreign organisations or foreign persons; but \u2026 is not intelligence of the kind referred to in paragraph (a)\u201D. How can something be (a) but not (a)? You know, I did not do law, but I did philosophy and I did logic and a bit of maths back in the day, and (a) but not (a) is not a possibility. It is something that is absolutely illogical, and it seems to me that the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ad06708602c4d698ee5742e60874f49\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Metaphysics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273acc3142c3846ac87f080292d1af0b3\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I do not want to get metaphysical with the member. I think what we need to look at really carefully is whether in the rush to get this legislation through, there is a paragraph here that has not properly been considered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI know that it is an old saying, but I am here from the Opposition, and as much as I like not helping, I think it is important that, even in this appalling form, we have a bill that is at least logically consistent and coherent. I see from the way that officials are now looking carefully at it\u2014the pencils are out, and the officials are writing\u2014that we have the possibility of getting an amendment to that particular clause. And I want to remind members of the Committee that if we pass this clause, if we go past Part 1 tonight, then in order to recommit Part 1, we will have to have a debate on the floor of the Chamber in order to suspend the Standing Orders to go back to the bit that we passed. So what I am asking for\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u002227556d06823a4c6cbc6c1ebe624d12a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227556d06823a4c6cbc6c1ebe624d12a8\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I want to pick up on referring to the 10 substantive amendments that I have put forward on Part 1 of the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill. Where I was at before was looking at amendments around sections 8A and 8B in clause 6. They are essentially to restrict the information flow to New Zealand so that the information gathered by the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) under sections 8A and 8B does not travel offshore. Apparently\u2014we were told\u2014the practice in the past has been to send all this information offshore. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EI want to talk a little bit about section 8C and my amendment under Supplementary Order Paper 319 to section 8C. The amendment is to essentially remove section 8C, and the reason for that is that I think we have already seen the threat that section 8C poses to our democracy. Section 8C basically says that the Defence Force, the Police, and the SIS can use the GCSB to spy on New Zealanders. That is what it says. We know that the Defence Force thinks that investigative journalists are subversives. Under the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service Act, for example, subversives are part of the definition of protecting security, so it is protecting New Zealand against subversives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E So journalists become a legitimate target once they are defined as subversives, as the New Zealand Defence Force believes journalists to be. Once journalists become subversives, and hence a legitimate target of surveillance, the Defence Force can go to the GCSB and say: \u201CHelp us out to spy on journalists, because journalists are subversives, as we all know, and hence it is legitimate for us to ask you to spy on them.\u201D This, I think, demonstrates the problem with section 8C and it is why we are trying to delete it under Supplementary Order Paper 319. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EI would also like to make a comment on Mr Dunne\u2019s amendments, which we will be supporting because they do provide minor improvements to the bill, and we will vote for minor improvements. I would refer in particular to the review process that Mr Dunne has put in place. That review process is completely meaningless. It is like the MMP review. Remember the MMP review? The Government said we were going to have a review of MMP if, in the referendum, people voted for MMP. The Electoral Commission, the independent umpire, suggested a bunch of changes to MMP and the Government did not like them for partisan, political reasons, so implemented none of them. So I am afraid that the review that Mr Dunne has got is meaningless. We will support it, but, frankly, it does not fix up the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe next Supplementary Order Paper I want to talk about is Supplementary Order Paper 309. The effect of my amendment here is essentially to revert to the original section 14 of the Government Communications Security Bureau Act 2003\u2014that is, to revert to the situation that Parliament believed it had passed in 2003, which prevented the GCSB from spying on New Zealanders. If you do not believe that that is what Parliament voted for, you should read the debate in 2003. I have been on the Intelligence and Security Committee dealing with this bill and reading the debate from 2003. It is remarkable, for example, that Tony Ryall, who is also now a member of the Intelligence and Security Committee, spoke at length about how clause 14 of the 2003 bill absolutely forbade and prohibited the GCSB from spying on New Zealanders. He said that anybody else who argued anything else was a conspiracy theorist. He said that they were slightly strange people if they thought that the GCSB was going to be able spy on New Zealanders. That is what Tony Ryall said in the debate about the 2003 legislation when it was passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ESo the existing section 14 of the Government Communications Security Bureau Act 2003 says that the GCSB cannot spy on New Zealanders. The GCSB said: \u201CWe don\u2019t care what the law says, we are going to spy on New Zealanders because we want to.\u201D, and it went ahead and did it and broke the law. We have never seen the legal opinion from the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security saying that it is arguable whether it broke the law. The Government will not release that legal opinion because it knows that it is bunkum. The GCSB clearly did breach the basic rights of 88 New Zealanders by spying on them against the law and clearly breaching section 14. So my Supplementary Order Paper 309 is essentially to revert back to the original meaning that Parliament supported in 2003 when it voted for the legislation, which was that the GCSB was simply not allowed to spy on New Zealanders. We think that that is fundamental to why the GCSB was established. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EI would also just like to touch on a couple of other Supplementary Order Papers. Supplementary Order Paper 322 basically stops the unwarranted actions of the GCSB. Section 16 of the Act allows the GCSB to engage in unwarranted interception. So it can\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddd9cb29c2004b6b9398187089458443\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddd9cb29c2004b6b9398187089458443\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022317e0fdfb8c44e24becb83d4ba5b4ee1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022317e0fdfb8c44e24becb83d4ba5b4ee1\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak on this very important bill, the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill. What is very clear is that Government members have spent the night trying to convince the Committee and all New Zealanders that this bill makes no significant difference to the existing Government Communications Security Bureau Act, and, of course, nothing could be further from the truth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EMy learned colleague the Hon David Parker has adumbrated the changes to new section 8, set out in clause 6, which demonstrate that under this bill the powers for the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) have been significantly expanded, including through the definition of the target for surveillance, which is now described as \u201Cinformation infrastructure\u201D. It is not just computer systems; it is now a very broad definition. Of course, what new section 8 also does, in describing the functions of the bureau, is no longer limit it to foreign intelligence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E Even with that, the next best thing we might do is look at the safeguards that are provided for in the bill. The point I want to make, and I will myself adumbrate these a little as I tread wearily on in my speech, is to show that the safeguards are virtually non-existent. I turn first to section 8C, inserted by clause 6, which sets out the other departments and agencies that the GCSB will be allowed to assist, which is all very well. Peter Dunne has very nobly said that his Supplementary Order Paper 308, if it is passed, will mean that the Government cannot simply add departments but will have to amend the legislation if it wants to add any more departments. That is good, as far as it goes, but, actually, it is not good enough because of subsection (2) of new section 8C, which says: \u201CTo avoid doubt, the Bureau may perform its function \u2026\u201D\u2014and I cut to the chase, through to paragraph (c) of that subsection\u2014\u201Ceven though the advice and assistance might involve the exercise of powers by, or the sharing of the capabilities of, the Bureau that the Bureau is not, or could not be, authorised to exercise or share in the performance of its other functions.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo here we have a safeguard that is not a safeguard. It gives the appearance of constricting, restraining, and limiting the GCSB\u2019s powers, but then gives it an out. The GCSB can do whatever it likes because it will be able to rely on section 8C(2)(c). That is no safeguard at all, and that confirms the anxiety that many New Zealanders have that this legislation, in addition to expanding to an extraordinary degree the powers that the GCSB currently has, now provides no real safeguard. Even if my other learned colleague the Hon Trevor Mallard is correct in his concerns about section 4, which is amended by clause 5, and the new definition of \u201Cincidentally obtained intelligence\u201D, and that paragraph (a) does not mean paragraph (a), it does not matter, because section 8C(2)(c) will protect the GCSB from exercising its powers in any context and in any way at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ELet us move to section 8CA, \u201CPrinciples underpinning performance of Bureau\u2019s functions\u201D, inserted by clause 6. There is a very noble and honourable setting out of the principles in subsection (1) of that new section. It will be \u201Cin accordance with New Zealand law\u201D and \u201Call human rights standards\u201D will be observed and exercised. It will \u201Cdischarge \u2026 its operational functions, independently and impartially:\u201D\u2014fantastic, grand, to be commended. But it is all ruined by subsection (2). Subsection (2) comes in and completely destroys any benefit there might be. In fact, it is not just subsection (2) but subsection (3) as well. Subsection (2) says: \u201CSubsection (1) does not impose particular duties on \u2026 the Director \u2026\u201D. So even though there are these principles, the director will have no duty to abide by them at all. Then subsection (3) gives the appearance of some sort of protection. It says: \u201CThe Director must take all reasonable steps to ensure that\u2014(a) the activities of the Bureau are limited to those that are relevant \u2026\u201D, and so on. Basically, they are a set of factors that look like a codification of the principles of intra vires. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EHere is the thing. The first argument might be to say, well, why have \u201Call reasonable steps\u201D? There is other language that the Government could use in a bill like this. What about \u201Call practicable steps\u201D, which is much firmer, much tighter? But the real question is why have this provision at all if you do not want to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u0022691146f0dfe44d11a358ae576956ff58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022691146f0dfe44d11a358ae576956ff58\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022567b9fcfd2cb4377938c55fefbe1eaf9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022567b9fcfd2cb4377938c55fefbe1eaf9\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to speak to clause 6 in Part 1 of this wretched bill, the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill, and speak particularly to section 8C and the amendment put forward by Peter Dunne in Supplementary Order Paper 308, for which we are meant to be eternally grateful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ESection 8C as it stands, under clause 6, has, in the Government\u2019s latest version of the bill, still retained subsection (1)(d), which was one of the most offensive of the many offensive provisions in this legislation. It says, for those who do not have it in front of them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022be63cfb80754426b9b660a037824144b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be63cfb80754426b9b660a037824144b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. The time has come for me to report progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported progress on the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill, and no progress on the Resource Management Reform Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00223518eac4f9bf4183b1abfac764b3a539\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223518eac4f9bf4183b1abfac764b3a539\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224ffc6babd09043f097eb951c428751eb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; Independent: Dunne.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20130806f45b9fa6702242b18d14b21c3feb564e000793\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 9.57 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022050dbb0cd0384b60a4a709fe53a24094\u0022\u003ETuesday, 6 August 2013\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022055f62a21fd2478dbc610bd53c548abc\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 7 August 2013)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b8242e5271454ba3a2c435649676d3d2\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2013/14 Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d749d8ab8d042c68d926ea611710ac4\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002240d0c19d878248a4b01100841b4744d8\u0022\u003EImprest Supply Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002206de8271e9264083aeffa5c871ef99d6\u0022\u003EImprest Supply Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000006\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 1 August.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00224d1655e3bd9d4745ab4e413619df7810\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d1655e3bd9d4745ab4e413619df7810\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E We are in the estimates debate, and we have been, for those people who are watching at home and following this debate, decrying the record of this Government and its failure to address the really big issues that are confronting New Zealand society. We have a Government here that is distracted by scandals, that is focused on cronyism, and that seems to be about employing its own folks, those with National Party connections, to many of the top jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe Skycity deal that has been struck is one that is recent in our minds, and we can see there the way that that deal has been skewed\u2014skewed\u2014towards Skycity, which knew that it had the Government over a barrel. It knew it did. Skycity knew that the Government had politically committed to doing the deal with it. The Government stepped outside the normal transparent process for tendering and said to Skycity: \u201CIt\u2019s you or nobody.\u201D, effectively. And Skycity\u2014well, it is a business operator; of course it maximised the deal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EBut we see now that in Australia, where similar deals are done, there is a price to pay for extending the gambling rights for as long as Skycity has extended them, on top of the additional gaming machines and tables. Skycity has got a steal. It has got an absolute steal out of this Government, because the Government has backed itself into a corner, it has done a shady deal, and the taxpayers of New Zealand are left picking up the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThat is just one example. There are so many more. The Government Communications Security Bureau scandal, which is dogging the Government right now, has the Government wondering where it is going to go next, because one minute John Key does not seem to know what is going on, then it turns out that he has had a conversation with his staff member but it is not officially a report or a meeting, and so the story goes on. John Key here is donkey deep\u2014he is donkey deep. Ordinary New Zealanders do not know whether they can trust him any more, and they certainly do not want to be spied on in their own homes by an agency that is supposed to be protecting New Zealand\u2019s interests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ELabour, on the other hand, has a plan. It will adopt a more hands-on strategy to make sure that ordinary people are put first. It will create hope and opportunities for New Zealanders. We will create more jobs and better wages, unlike this Government here, which is still sitting on higher unemployment than when it took office, despite all of the attempts to fudge the figures. Median wages are dropping. Inequality is higher than it has been at any time in recorded New Zealand history. This is not a just society, this is not a fair society, and this is not a society that reflects New Zealanders\u2019 concern for social justice. National has let New Zealanders down. It has lost touch with the people who are struggling to meet the needs of their family or even to get a job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI know that from my home town, as Dunedin gets more bad news today with another rail contract going overseas. As if the Hillside gutting was not enough, we now have Invermay in the past week losing 85 highly skilled jobs out of Dunedin. That is on the back of Steven Joyce saying that local institutions are imperative to support the development of a high-value regional economy. Well, that rings very hollow in Dunedin right now\u2014that rings very, very hollow. And the Otago Daily Times\u2014congratulations go to the Otago Daily Times, the local newspaper, New Zealand\u2019s largest independent newspaper\u2014is standing up. It is saying that enough is enough. It is time for central government to deliver on the empty promises it has been making. Regional New Zealand is hurting right now, and it is begging for a Government that has an economic development strategy, unlike this Government, which seems to have precisely none. It is not so long ago, just a matter of weeks, that New Zealand Post closures were also announced in Dunedin, and the shifting of the postal centre away from the regions, from the small towns, to be concentrated in Christchurch, where, of course, there is a housing issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E This Government, while it is distracted by cronyism, while it is seeing median wages drop, while unemployment remains high, is not looking after the interests of ordinary New Zealanders. In the meantime, a David Shearer - led Labour Party is putting plans out there. It is saying that every child should be able to have a world-class education at their local school\u2014every child should have a world-class education at their local school. Then we are saying that we will build affordable housing. We will tackle the housing issue. We will build 10,000 quality houses that are affordable, every year for the next 10 years. We will also make sure that there are warm, dry rentals for those people who are living currently in cold, damp homes. Well, I can tell you that that also will make a big difference in my home town of Dunedin. We are sick of the speculators. We are sick of the offshore speculators. We are also going to close down those loopholes and adopt policies like they have in the Pacific Islands and in Singapore, similar ideas to what are adopted in many countries close by. But this Government will not. It says: \u201CHands off! Hands off!\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ELet us look at the power market. Well, Mr Bridges over there is very quiet. He says nothing. I look across and I see Mr Bridges saying precisely nothing. He is very quiet on this now, but previously he has said that the New Zealand power market will work. He says that rising costs, which go up and up and up, are a result of a power market that is just not mature yet, and the Bradford reforms, which happened 15 years ago, just have not bedded in. Well, ordinary New Zealanders do not agree with that, Mr Bridges. What do you say now from across there? Silence from Mr Bridges again. He is stunned into silence because he knows he is on the wrong side of this argument. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EMr Key says that the prices New Zealanders are paying are fair. That is what Mr Key says. He says that the prices that ordinary New Zealanders are paying are fair. Ordinary New Zealanders do not agree with him, and I think Mr Key knows that he is wrong. If we listen, what does Mr Key have to say about that now? Mr Key? Precisely nothing. Mr Key is also stunned into silence because he knows that he is on the wrong side of this argument about power prices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWell, Labour will take a hands-on approach to power prices. We will make sure that ordinary New Zealanders are paying a fair amount. We in this country used to have one of the cheapest power prices in the OECD\u2014one of the cheapest. Now we are paying right up there, and that is because, since the Bradford reforms, power prices have gone up at twice the rate of inflation. They have gone up five times the rate of inflation in the last year, and that is in a time of dropping demand. It is unbelievable, but it is happening, and Mr Bridges and Mr Key think that it is all fair. They take their hands off and just watch those power prices skyrocket out of control, and that is as the assets are sold. As the assets\u2014those precious energy generating assets that used to pay for our schools and hospitals\u2014are sold offshore, the revenues dry up. Treasury says that it will send us backwards by $100 million a year\u2014$100 million a year\u2014and this Government is happy to let it happen. It is happy to let New Zealand taxpayer - owned companies be sold, for the assets to drift offshore, for the profits to drift offshore, and for the current account deficit to rise inexorably. This Government has lost touch with ordinary New Zealanders. It is selling off our best assets. It does not have a plan to address power prices. Mr Bridges is still silent. I can say \u201Cpower prices\u201D as many times as I like and Mr Bridges says nothing. Mr Key says nothing, but previously he said that he thinks that it is fair that New Zealanders are paying what they are paying for power right now, while people who cannot afford to turn on their heaters in their homes\u2014and I talk to these people in my electorate\u2014are saying that it is not fair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe should be paying only what it costs to generate that power plus a fair return on assets. That is a fair model. That is what NZ Power proposes. That is the Labour model. I think that after two more winters, the New Zealand public will realise the benefits of this policy. They already do. They know that the average family will be $300 a week better off as a result of Labour\u2019s NZ Power policy. They know that those affordable homes will matter for the struggling young Kiwis trying to get into houses. They know that the kinds of policies Labour wants to adopt, like pro-growth tax reform, will make a difference. They will make a difference, as will research and development tax credits and a capital gains tax that takes away speculation signals that are in the market and makes sure that productive business is supported. They know that universal KiwiSaver will help with New Zealand\u2019s capital debt problem. They know that exchange rate issues need to be addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ELet us face it\u2014this Government is not across all the portfolios. Mr Joyce came before the Finance and Expenditure Committee and did not have the answers prepared on the supplementary estimates. He asked for an extension. He was the only Minister to do that. He is stretched because he is fronting so much for a Government that is struggling. I moved a resolution, which is on the record of that select committee, that we postpone the meeting until such time as the Minister is across his portfolios. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a482c75cc61447bbff2a8820f5efe5f\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you\u2019re so clever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022467e06d0ff754490a3fd8efea13a895d\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: And what did the Government members do, Mr Henare? What did they do? They voted it down. They said that they could not wait for Mr Joyce to get across his portfolios. They did not have that much time. Nobody has that much time. Mr Joyce is struggling and the Government members know that. They knew that, so they would not wait. They voted it down. They said: \u201CWe can\u2019t postpone this meeting until such time as Mr Joyce is across his portfolios. We simply can\u2019t do it.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis Government is struggling. It is dogged by cronyism and dogged by dodgy deals. A Labour Government would take a hands-on approach and make sure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4e5e89279d749999d7c97cab11f6c10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4e5e89279d749999d7c97cab11f6c10\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022478577fb58534e82a2da03c935fef97f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022478577fb58534e82a2da03c935fef97f\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E That speech is a very good example of why one should not have too much coffee before 9 a.m. But I do have to thank Dr Clark, the previous speaker, for giving me the platform to just lay out some information that I think he and New Zealanders will be interested to hear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe fourth Labour Government, from 1984 to 1990, saw power prices increase by 98.7 percent. The fourth National Government, from 1990 to 1999, saw power prices increase by, yes, 47 percent. The fifth Labour Government, from 1999 to 2008, saw power prices increase by 72 percent. The fifth National Government\u2014the Government that is presently on the Treasury benches\u2014from 2008 to the present has seen power prices increase by 16.2 percent. So when the previous speaker criticises the Bradford reforms, this graph will show you exactly what has happened. The Bradford reforms came in here, where we see that power prices actually decreased, and then, of course, a Labour Government came back into power and all the reforms in power that had come in were erased by what members opposite say was economic development, but what I would say was reckless spending\u2014reckless spending. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EOf course, members of the Opposition are out there talking about their potential electricity reforms, and it is wonderful. I say it is wonderful because we had Professor Wolak in Wellington last week, and no doubt those members are very much aware of the comments and reports that he has made. But in terms of the position that we have I think established through the Bradford reforms and then with the Brownlee reforms in 2009-10, Professor Wolak said to a symposium here in Wellington that he cannot see why New Zealand would want to turn its back on the electricity market structure it has now. [Interruption] Exactly. This is the man whom Labour says has backed up those members\u2019 policy, whom they quoted, and whom they said was the one who described the price gouging of $4.3 billion coming out of consumers\u2019 pockets, which he refuted, of course. He said: \u201CI never gave that figure.\u201D, but their policy made it look like it came from him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo, anyway, we know that our electricity market structure does need continual work. The Electricity Authority is continuing to work on building to have an even more robust, competitive structure to it, which is going to have the benefit of lowering prices to consumers with regard to electricity. Professor Wolak certainly gave us the clear impression that we should not ditch what we have got, but continue to improve it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI have to say that I really love what Pattrick Smellie said in the Stuff business desk, because he then talked about the Labour-Greens single-buyer electricity policy, and he said that it \u201Chas a problem. While it remains politically resonant with voters who perceive power companies as rapacious and inescapable, the American academic whose analysis is a key plank of the Labour-Greens NZ Power proposal says the Opposition parties have got it wrong. Not only that, but Stanford University\u2019s Professor Frank Wolak\u2014a top US electricity markets academic and a one-time regulator\u2014says that despite repeated assertions to the contrary, he never concluded that power companies here had ripped off consumers to the tune of $4.3 billion over the mid-2000\u2019s. Unfortunately, that $4.3 b figure has been the smoking gun fact around which the political argument for the policy has been built.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo if I can paraphrase what he is saying: keep what you have got, and ditch the shonky, snake oil stuff that is being proposed. That was my paraphrase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f538110cd494316b6d22f7eb5eb600c\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Who are you calling \u201CShon-key\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022045d977d70cc4049ad1053189ff1ef1c\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: I am calling you shonky. So tell me, in terms of this Government\u2014which I believe has great momentum going forward\u2014who would you believe and who would you trust? Let us not listen to Opposition members. Who has the weight of credibility? It is National. It is not Labour and the Greens. You will not hear them attack those energy policies with any credence, with any facts, or with any sense of real depth of data and figures. They have lost the battle over energy\u2014they really have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThis Government has got momentum. It has weightiness, it has gravitas, and it has velocity. It is taking this country forward. We have policies that have traction. That is what is moving this country forward. Economic growth is the highest in 5 years, after going through the worst recession in 60 years, which everybody conveniently forgets. We have seen the highest growth in 5 years, comparable to Australia, and higher than for almost every other developed country. Our economy is forecast to grow between 2 percent and 3 percent a year over the next 4 years. Wages are growing, cost of living increases have been modest, and interest rates are at 50-year lows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fc1baa0c53e45b1b80afc51492bbe90\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: And what does Dr Clark have to say about that now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271f1c36275164a74a607f60fc6761bb3\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot hear what Dr Clark has to say. In fact, the cost of living data shows that consumer prices rose by just 0.7 percent in the year to June. That is phenomenal. It is a phenomenal benefit to the New Zealand consumer that prices have been held at such a low rate, and that during this point in time, over the last number of years since 2008, household income has risen 20 percent in these last 4 years, and is expected to rise by almost 20 percent in the next 4 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI would say that, yes, we have our challenges\u2014we are obviously aware of those; even those of recent times, with Fonterra\u2019s issues\u2014and we know that we have come through some very difficult times in this country, but we are a resilient people. We are a people who are innovative and industrious, and we put our hand to the plough. We work hard and we come up with great ideas that give us a competitive edge. What this Government is doing through all of its many innovative streams of support, funding, and investment is building on that great quality that New Zealanders have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EAs a Government, we are responsibly managing the Government\u2019s books. When you understand that this Government actually participates in the economy to the tune of about 30 percent, it is very important to understand that the way we manage the Government accounts is incredibly important, not only to set an example but also to improve efficiencies and stop wastage in this country, so that we can certainly get better value for money. We are building a more competitive and productive economy, we are delivering better public services, and we are rebuilding Christchurch. We are building a stronger, more stable economy that can again weather global storms and deliver opportunities for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThis is God\u2019s own country. It has been in the past, and it will be in the future, where New Zealanders can grow up in this land, they can seize opportunities, and they can be supported through an education system that ensures that they all succeed\u2014five out of five are going to come through high school with a qualification that is going to enable them to get on to tertiary and further learning, and to gain skills and to gain employment. The employment area is one of great importance. It is good to see that more and more people are becoming employed here in New Zealand as this economy starts to deliver more and more for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWe are delivering progress and optimism. Yes, New Zealand households and businesses have faced some pretty challenging times in the past 5 years. Although these challenges remain, the economic recovery is gaining momentum, driven by low interest rates, investment, and strong export prices. We are very thankful right now to have the likes of the Hon Tim Groser working hard for the benefit of New Zealand. He is a man of incredible capacity and great international linkages and relationships, and he is able to work through and carry us through in terms of some of the issues we are facing in this current time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI believe that the Budget that has been presented by the Hon Bill English is a great Budget for New Zealand and is progressing this country into a better and stronger state, for the benefit of all. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u002287aee60ed10f44a88f03ceb788a8dd06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287aee60ed10f44a88f03ceb788a8dd06\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise to take a call in the dead of the morning to debate the Appropriation (2013/14 Estimates) Bill. The member who has just resumed his seat, Jonathan Young, said that this debate is a test of credibility and asked the question to New Zealanders: \u201CWho do you trust?\u201D. The answer is that they are not going to trust the party that is trying to legalise blanket surveillance on New Zealanders. They are not going to trust a Big Brother State that is intent on doing it to them, not doing it with them. They are not going to trust National\u2019s A-team in the House this morning. We have got an expert on shears here. He has shorn lots of them. We have got Tau Henare sitting up the back. He is giving his full attention to the estimates debate. We have got Maurice Williamson sitting down the front, the greatest leader the National Party never had. If this is National\u2019s A-team, the country\u2019s economy is in trouble, because their recipe for economic success is simply to milk more cows. Well, man, this week we have learnt about the risks associated with that. It seems like the Government should be surveilling the dairy industry, not surveilling every telephone call that every New Zealander ever makes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders are sick to death of this Government; that is the long and short of it. They did not like Muldoon last time around, and they do not like Muldoon\u2019s mokopuna this time around either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228be0f8fad57f4c7dbead490a0828f828\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: What was the last poll? 29 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4fa73ec06ae409b8c77f198bde61a83\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: My goodness me! Tau Henare has woken up. That coffee must have finally found its way through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWe had the temerity of the previous speaker lecturing the Labour Party about power prices and crowing that National had put them up by only 16 percent in the last 4 years. That is far more than the rate of inflation, and the reason for that, as my colleague has said, is that National has presided over the worst economic performance in 50 years. The economy has been struggling to get out of first gear. It has not got out of first gear. When we look at unemployment\u2014the human face of National\u2019s failure\u2014we see that it has changed from 3.4 percent under Labour to 7 percent under National. It is sticking very close to 7 percent now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s economic prescription has failed. Why has it failed? Well, it is shatteringly simple, and it is rooted in inequality. The idea was, and it is a very old idea, that if you give tax cuts to the rich and put up GST on the poor, suddenly the wealth that is at the top will trickle down and enrich all. It did not work for Ronald Reagan\u2019s America. It did not work for Margaret Thatcher\u2019s Britain. It did not work for Ruth Richardson last time around, and it is not working now. It is not working because the top 10 percent got 40 percent of the extra money. That is unethical in a country where 270,000 children are growing up under the poverty line. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ENational\u2019s greatest achievement in this term of office has been to shift massive financial resource from the poor to the rich\u2014from the poor to the rich\u2014to massively grow inequality in this country. So its constituents increasingly live behind big walls and razor wire with their security cameras. We are living in a surveillance State. Meanwhile ordinary New Zealanders are struggling to pay their ever-growing power bills and are coping with rental house prices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ELabour has the answer to those problems. It is very, very simple: build affordable homes. Let us cut through all the nonsense and just admit that we are not going to bring down house prices until supply increases and demand cools off. So that is why we are going to hit the speculators with a capital gains tax. Let me say it again\u2014we are going to hit the property speculators with a capital gains tax. If they are offshore, non-resident speculators, they are not going to play in our sandpit, because we are going to put New Zealanders at the front of the queue. National\u2019s spin machine has been in overdrive over that issue because, as the New Zealand Herald told us yesterday, two-thirds of New Zealanders think it is a fabulous idea that Kiwis ought to be able to buy a home and put down roots\u2014the Kiwi dream\u2014in their own country, not play second fiddle to some foreign plutocrat who slips a few bucks to the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ELabour will bring down power bills. I have had enough of being lectured to by the grandchildren of Max Bradford. The Bradford regime had every opportunity to work. Goodness knows, the previous Labour Government did its best. It put David Caygill in as electricity commissioner, and there were several rounds of reforms to try to perfect the market. The very same Stanford University economist whom Jonathan Young referred to declared a couple of years ago, after massive analysis, that there was a 20 percent monopoly price premium built into that market because it was not competitive. After 15 years of tweaking, Mr Young, we have finally come to the conclusion that there is no way of tweaking it beyond monopoly. So we are going to have an agency called NZ Power, which will buy power at fair prices and sell it on to New Zealanders. That will take Kiwi power prices down by 300 bucks a year for the average family\u2014over a month and a half of free power bills\u2014if they vote Labour. Let us be clear. If New Zealanders want power prices to come down, if they want reasonably affordable housing, it is very simple: throw the bums out, and vote Labour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EKiwis will not have a better life if they cannot earn a decent living. That is why Labour stands for more good high-wage jobs\u2014more good high-wage jobs. We are not ashamed to have labour laws that allow unions to work on behalf of workers. Yes, National, hear us. Unions have a role to play in a modern workplace. We are not going to encourage scab labour. We are not going to sell down labour laws, just like we are not going to sell down personal freedoms and privacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3b7e8f626884ac18e4e8348b7942fbf\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: I was a member of \u201CNats for Shearer\u201D, but I\u2019m going with this man now. This man should be leader.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c10ed22acdf743a793be8f7e6a917620\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: You know, some people cannot ever get over their own personal disappointments. Maurice Williamson is a living testament\u2014a living testament\u2014to the dogged belief in his own self-image. The problem is nobody else has been listening for about 10 years, and they are not listening now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EBefore I finish I have to give a couple of minutes to the Hon Nathan Guy, my recent opposite number in the fisheries portfolio. He is going to get even with Tau Henare very soon, because Tau Henare backed that Ng\u0101puhi special on the foreign charter vessels bill. Let me talk about Nathan Guy\u2019s three great stuff-ups in the fisheries sector. The first is snapper 1. There are 650,000 recreational fishermen or fisherwomen in New Zealand, of which I am a passionate member myself. That is 650,000 voters who will not be voting National because National has had the stroke of genius\u2014the stroke of brilliance\u2014of cutting their snapper bag limit from nine fish a day to just three\u2014nine fish a day, to three. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to know that that is going to go down like a bucket of cold sick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246a4a1c6f39c45c282ec1aab9afba7d4\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: It has done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269f154ac8736434cbdbc94e842c4910a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: It has done. National members are sweating because their email boxes are filling up with messages from perturbed recreational fisher people, saying: \u201CLeave my snapper alone.\u201D Well, the word is that Mr Guy earlier floated the boat\u2014if you can forgive the pun\u2014of a 10 percent cut in the commercial quota. The phones started ringing hot from National\u2019s big business backers, and he backed off. And now it is all the recreational fishers who are getting it in the neck, and they are not happy. Strike one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EStrike two\u2014we agree with National on trying to get rid of slave fishing. We agree with National about flagging foreign charter fishing boats into New Zealand law. We do not agree with National about doing a one-off sleazy deal for one iwi, which gives them another 4 years to impose slavery on the fishing industry. It is not going to work, and it is not going to stand. No matter what Tau Henare has been up to in the back rooms, I am hopeful that Nathan Guy is going to see sense and withdraw that iwi amendment from the foreign slave fishing bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EHis third great mistake has been the paua fishery. He did not have a decent consultation process before wanting\u2014same story again\u2014to increase the commercial quota and get the recreational and customary take down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d75aa3dfe2c24e52b114b95ad3d5ab96\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ooh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfb580eabba64ba4a9dc788853f12e92\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Ooh, what a bad one. What is wrong with this National Party death wish in the fisheries portfolio? I predict that Nathan Guy will not be in that portfolio in a year\u2019s time. I think his record of getting himself donkey deep in commercial interests and shafting recreational and customary interests is going to see him being reshuffled out of that portfolio. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EI could go on and on and on and on about the failures of this Government, but you, Mr Deputy Speaker, would not let me, so I am going to round off now and just remind people that if you want Budget surpluses, if you want decent cheap housing, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6e3986b85764600ac4645ec8ac3412d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6e3986b85764600ac4645ec8ac3412d\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Your time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022cff36c5f60c9405cacad99c0da44296a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cff36c5f60c9405cacad99c0da44296a\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E It is an honour to speak on the Appropriation (2013/14 Estimates) Bill. I would not be doing justice if I did not reply to some of the comments Mr Cunliffe has made. May I first congratulate him on his leadership pitch here this morning, but with two fellow travellers in his camp, that man will not be leader\u2014not in the next week, not in the next month, and likely not this century. But he has some skills, and he has pointed out what a great job this Government is doing. It is a pleasure to talk about real leadership, not the fake leadership that that man just demonstrated. Real leadership comes from the Prime Minister, John Key, by focusing on the things that matter. While members opposite focus on leaks, scaremongering, and leadership spills within the Labour Party, the National Government continues to focus on the economy, on jobs, on opportunities for our people, and on the crisis that has hit this country with the Fonterra milk scare. We are showing leadership in that department. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThis Budget legislation confirms what most New Zealanders know. The 50 percent who say in polls that they would vote for National\u2014not the 30 percent who would vote for Labour\u2014want leadership. They want demonstrated, proven, and sound leadership, and John Key demonstrates that every day that he is out in our communities, and every day that he is in this House and in the Beehive leading our country. This legislation confirms that we are on the right track. We are on the right track with economic growth, we are on the right track with more jobs being created, and we are on the right track in terms of the rising wages that are occurring in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EMembers opposite have asked: \u201CWhere are the jobs?\u201D. Well, the jobs are online and in newspapers. I looked at SEEK before I came down to the House this morning. There are 16,255 jobs available on SEEK\u201412,956 of those are full-time, 1,027 are part-time, and 2,000 are contract jobs. Over 16,000 jobs are out there in our communities, and those are just the advertised jobs. There are thousands of other jobs available, and the issue is that we need to get people skilled and we need to get people motivated to take up those jobs that are on offer in our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EWe are responsibly managing the Government\u2019s books, and we know that we are going to reach a projected surplus in the next 2 financial years. We are building a more competitive and productive economy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278614c6aefb343c3b0feff638ac6a5f5\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: Tell that to the 146,000 people who are unemployed\u2014146,000 unemployed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8f6cba21068479897076d1be987fb1e\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and trying to create jobs out there, whether it be mining or whether it be convention centres. All I know is that members opposite, including Ms Beaumont, cannot stand the fact that we are creating an environment where jobs are being created. People are taking on jobs, they are feeding and clothing their families, and they are independent from the former Labour Government, which promoted reliance and dependence on that Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003ESo what are we doing? What are we doing in terms of housing? When I go around my electorate in Maungakiekie, housing affordability is a real issue. And we know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9caa703c4f445e3abaa44a62b6f0f5d\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s Carol Beaumont\u2019s electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022427430692fb24b009fbadbdae76da947\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: Carol Beaumont did not get voted in. I love it\u2014I love it! Carol Beaumont is running in Manukau East. The people in Manukau East know it. She is going for selection in Manukau East. She might live in Epsom South, but she is running for Manukau East. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EAnyway, we know that 39,000 houses need to be built in the next 3 years. What is this Government doing? We are working with councils. There is a housing accord with Auckland Council, whereby we are going to free up land and special housing areas. That is particularly important because housing affordability is critical to our economic growth. It is critical to the lives of New Zealanders, particularly in my community in Maungakiekie. It critical to those who want to have their own homes. So what are we doing? We are streamlining the Resource Management Act. Amy Adams is reducing red tape around the building of new houses\u2014and this is supported by Nick Smith\u2014by introducing 6-month consenting limits for medium-sized projects. We know that the Hon Maurice Williamson is also doing a fine job in the building sector, bringing together parties who are looking to build houses at lower cost and to build those houses faster through a consenting process that supports economic growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EWe are launching an inquiry into building material costs. We know that the cost of building houses in New Zealand is 30 percent higher than in Australia. So we have asked the question. We are inquiring into it, we are investigating that, and we will bring a review that will make changes to the building industry. We are also reviewing development contributions and compliance costs because we know that red tape and bureaucracy dampens development. I have talked to the developers in South Auckland. I have talked to the developers in Maungakiekie. They are telling me that red tape and bureaucracy is the worst thing that can occur, because it dampens development, dampens economic growth, and dampens jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThis Government is about investing in skills to boost the productivity of the construction sector. Onehunga High School, my local high school, has a building and construction school that supports the industry in terms of building more houses faster. We also have trades academies across this nation. I have talked to those young kids. The Prime Minister and I visited Onehunga High School 2 months ago, and after talking to the kids we know that they are aspirational, they want jobs, and they want to participate in our communities. That is why the programmes that National is delivering in this Budget are working, and New Zealanders know it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe other thing that this Government is doing is creating an economic framework from which jobs and opportunities can be created\u2014an economic framework. We have seen some of the lowest interest rates in New Zealand for a number of years. It is those interest rates that save money for those who are paying mortgages. We have a low inflation rate\u2014the lowest inflation rate. Low inflation and low interest rates mean that when businesses make investment decisions, and when they make decisions in terms of hiring people, they know that they are making those decisions with a greater degree of certainty, confidence, and trust, not just in the Government but in the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003ELabour members are silent on this. What they are not silent on is their anti-growth policies. They are anti-growth. They belong in the pockets of the faceless men in the unions of this country. Mr Cunliffe, in the speech he has just made, referred to the unions because he is in their pockets. He needs the unions to defeat Shearer in a leadership spill. That is why he mentions the unions in every speech he makes in this House. It is disgusting. Labour members talk about cronyism\u2014well, that is disgusting. So Mr Cunliffe should think seriously about the speeches he makes in this House that refer to the faceless men who support him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1e545ae6c6d4152b6d642b2856ced5f\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Keep a straight face, Sam.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296090ecdee7648cf99251cc314aa4cb3\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. We know that economic growth is the highest in 5 years, that it compares well with Australia, and that it is higher than in almost every other developed country\u2014every other developed country. I challenge members opposite to go for a visit to America, to Europe, and to parts of Africa, and they will realise what a great country we live in. They will realise what a good, sound Government we have\u2014one that is promoting growth and opportunities in this country\u2014and they will realise that wages are growing and cost of living increases have been extremely modest in the last few years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EMy colleague Mr Young referred to the low inflation rate\u20140.7 percent in the last year. So we know that this Government is on the right track. We know that we are promoting growth and opportunities. But we also know that we are a Government that has compassion. We are a Government that is insulating 46,000 more homes for low-income families, with a $100 million investment in this Budget. We know that we are a Government that is increasing budget advisory services\u2014one of the biggest issues in my electorate office\u2014by 17 percent, which equates to over $10.5 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E We know that this is a compassionate Government. It is providing over $190 million over 4 years for welfare reforms. Why? Because we are work testing people in order to get them back into work. What are we doing also? We are providing $46.8 million for extra income-related rent subsidies, which will open up the community housing sector to provide for those families that are most in need. So this Government is delivering warmer, drier homes, and it is delivering subsidised homes for those most in need in our society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI summarise by saying that this Government, with this Budget, is delivering on the issues that matter to all New Zealanders. We are a compassionate Government. We have got sound, prudential, conservative policies that are delivering for New Zealanders right across this country. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022188eec01c8974e949070f7db76c492d8\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a 5-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u002236ca36cc37d74e9783098c006a627ef7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236ca36cc37d74e9783098c006a627ef7\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E There are times when I listen to speeches in this House and I do, indeed, feel as though I am living on another planet. I have just heard the member for Maungakiekie, and I do believe he is living on \u201CPlanet Key\u201D, that same planet that has no toilets and has nobody who needs to clean the toilets. His is a different world, indeed, from the world I live in and the world that many people I speak to live in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI want to speak today about inequality and how it has been grown by this Government, and the agenda it has to benefit the wealthy of this country. I want to point to the latest NBR New Zealand Rich List announced a couple of weeks ago, which saw an increase of $3.5 billion in total minimum net worth in 2012 amongst the rich listers in this country. Their combined value is now worth $47.9 billion. I think it is also worth noting that there are no individual women in that top 10. We are being fed this message from this Government and previous Governments that, well, these people at the top, they have earned this and they have contributed so much to New Zealand that they are worth this money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI would like to point them to some UK research quoted in the book Inequality: A New Zealand Crisis, by Max Rashbrooke. It looks at different returns on investment from different areas of work. It says that British researchers have found that highly paid investment bankers, by engaging in predatory lending and contributing to financial crises, have actually destroyed \u00A37 of wider social economic and environmental value for every \u00A31 they have created. That is a net loss from some of the wealthiest people in Western economies, who have sucked out \u00A37 worth of value from that wider economy for every \u00A31 they have contributed. That is in contrast to, say, very low-paid staff workers in childcare centres, who nurture the future generations. They add. For every \u00A31 they are given, they contribute between \u00A37 and \u00A39.50 in value. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThose are the values that this Government is perpetuating\u2014this misplaced emphasis and value on the people who are actually sucking wealth from our shared collective contribution. They are sucking out that wealth and channelling it to themselves. That is who is being valued by this Government in New Zealand. It is really important to note that this is not just a foreign problem; this is an issue in this country. Currently, the top 5 percent of the population in New Zealand own over 50 percent of New Zealand\u2019s net worth\u201450 percent. The top 5 percent in New Zealand\u20145 percent\u2014own half of the net worth in this country. I do not believe that that is justifiable. I do not believe that anybody has worked hard enough that 5 percent should own 50 percent. The bottom 50 percent of New Zealanders own\u2014let us see, take a guess\u20145 percent of our shared wealth, and 20 percent of children in this country are living in inequality and poverty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E It does not have to be this way. The policies of this Government create this inequality, and it does not serve any of us because we all lose out from inequality. It shows up in higher crimes rates, it shows up in a lack of recycling, and it shows up in teen pregnancy rates. It shows up in a huge range of social measures that we all lose out from. If we would only take some sensible initiatives like introducing a capital gains tax, increasing the bargaining powers of workers to be able to get more of a fair claim of that wealth, changing our monetary policy, and investing in regional economic initiatives, then maybe we could actually have a society where everyone had a fair share, recognising that it was a collective wealth to begin with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d22f64a854ff43479960cb85c555de58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d22f64a854ff43479960cb85c555de58\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I want to first congratulate the new member for Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti and welcome her to the House, to what is a robust debating chamber. I do hope that the new member enjoys her time in Parliament. I did sit and enjoy the member\u2019s maiden statement last evening. It was a good speech. It was a Labour speech, and it called very strongly for quality jobs for that member\u2019s electorate, and I could not disagree with that. In fact, I could not agree more with that call for quality jobs, so I am a little surprised that the call for quality jobs by that member in her maiden statement is not really supported by the actions of the Labour Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EMy colleague Sam Lotu-Iiga very helpfully passed on some information that I am very interested in. He was able to tell me that on Stuff\u2019s work website this morning there were 16,255 jobs offered for all of New Zealand. Of those, there were 12,956 full-time jobs on offer on that website. Those are just the advertised ones, obviously. There are many other jobs out there for those people, and there are a number of people who cannot work or choose not to work full-time. There are well over 1,000 part-time jobs on offer, well over 2,000 contracting jobs on offer, and 128 casual jobs on offer. Go to the website, have a look, go down, have an interview, and see how you go. I know that that member was encouraging people in her electorate to have a go and to find work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI was also a little dismayed with that speech and the lack of support by the Labour Party for the sentiments expressed in that member\u2019s speech. Moana Mackey, for example, who I know assisted the member in her campaign efforts around the Gisborne area, has been unrelentingly\u2014unrelentingly\u2014against any further oil and gas exploration on the North Island\u2019s East Coast. The member Moana Mackey spares no occasion to oppose oil and gas exploration, which makes me wonder how many jobs for New Zealanders are involved in oil and gas exploration on the East Coast of New Zealand. How many economic opportunities arise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e2c54c6e79049f48ca5f1edf482b1fe\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Quality jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eba01b7719984e1c840a174ad9a9ae67\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014quality jobs, as my colleague mentions. They are quality jobs, well-paying jobs, jobs that have a future, jobs that have a training pathway, and jobs that will provide security for families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWhy is it, then, that on the one hand one member of the Labour Party is calling for quality jobs in her new electorate, but on the other hand the rest of the Labour Party is actively\u2014actively\u2014campaigning against those very quality jobs? They are jobs, yes, but they are also careers. Why is it that on the one hand Labour decries the lack of job opportunities when, clearly, there are jobs out there, but on the other hand the rest of the caucus, not just one member but the rest of the caucus, is actively\u2014and I could bring some speeches to the House. In fact, I might do that and table them at a later date\u2014perhaps this afternoon. They are actively campaigning against the very thing that will underpin the economic\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2a8e938540c49b288831c01988aebad\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: How about regional economic development? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd1ec87c5bcb4ffdbff53a87dfeb5581\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: They do not like it\u2014they do not like it. Labour members do not like this Government pointing out the obvious. In fact, Labour does not like any policies that are going to promote jobs and are going to promote growth in the New Zealand economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ELet us just go through a few of those policies that Labour will oppose. Of course, Labour plans, if it gets into Government, which seems less and less likely, as it is sitting on 29 percent\u2014it is bad to be back in the 20s. But in the event\u2014[Interruption] Well, yes. But in the event that it ever did take a junior partnership with the Greens to form\u2014to deform\u2014a coalition Government from hell, the first thing they would do would be to dramatically increase the effect of the emissions trading scheme. Of course, they would do that on our trade-exposed businesses. We work in a global economy, but Labour, yes, it plans to lead the world in the emissions trading scheme and absolutely hobble all our trade-exposed economies, including our manufacturing, and including our agricultural industries. So that is the first thing it will do. It will also impose additional costs on New Zealand households. The impact of its changes to the emissions trading scheme would have something to the effect of an increase of around $500 per annum to the New Zealand household. How does that sit with the new member? How does that policy go with her? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ELabour plans to introduce a capital gains tax on all productive businesses. What kind of impact is that going to have on productive business? Well, I will tell you what impact it is going to have. It is going to suppress investment, so I would call that a very anti-growth policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ELabour, together with the Greens, intends on abandoning sensible monetary policy. They want to intervene, they want to interfere, and they want to print money because they think that is the answer\u2014deep thinkers over on that side of the House. Of course, what impact will that have? It will force down the value of the New Zealand dollar for a while and completely destroy any credibility that the New Zealand economy has in the international market place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ELabour and the Greens\u2014or the Greens and Labour, I should now say, because the polls are really shifting the balance across the other side\u2014would propose to nationalise the power industry. Well, what a bright idea that one was. That would have the immediate impact of destroying any competition within the power industry\u2014that competition that is now just coming in. It is being very effective. You can see that with the reforms that the Hon Gerry Brownlee has brought in. We now have an electricity market that is working far better than anything the previous Labour Government could achieve in its last 9 years. It would absolutely destroy and discourage any investment in the New Zealand electricity industry. Innovation? Do not bother. Investment? Why would you bother when there is a single electricity purchaser who is going to wipe out any incentives for any kind of innovation in the New Zealand electricity industry? What is going to happen? I will tell you what is going to happen. The price of electricity is going to rise. It is another anti-growth, anti-competitive, dog-whistle policy, ill-considered, not thought through, and destined to fail. And guess what? My constituents in Waitaki can see right through it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ELabour and the Greens want to borrow more money. They want to borrow more money. They want to indebt future generations of New Zealanders so that they can buy nice stuff now. That is what Labour wants to do. It wants to go back to that borrow, hope, and spend policy that it was so effective at in the 2000s. Labour wants to go back there again. Well, I can tell you that New Zealanders are wiser than that. They have chosen a Government that has got sound economic growth policies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo what are this Government\u2019s economic growth policies? Unlike Labour, which does not, frankly, know what it stands for or where it wants to go\u2014or, in fact, who its leader should be; it still has that little problem looming over it, it is very confused about that\u2014this Government is absolutely united. We know what we need to do. We need to build a more competitive economy. We need to build a productive economy that gives New Zealand businesses the tools that they need to grow and invest and, by the way, create more jobs and hire more staff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe reality for New Zealand is that we are a very small nation at the bottom of the world. We are an exporting nation\u2014we always will be\u2014based on agriculture, and National is supporting businesses. Our intention is to support businesses so that they can have an impact on the world stage, and so that they can compete internationally for trade coming to New Zealand. Our Minister of Trade, Tim Groser, has been extremely effective in opening up new markets to New Zealand business. The results are beginning to show, and this country is absolutely on the right track. We have got a very strong level of confidence in the New Zealand economy. Our economy is in good shape. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00228f431e247d394b00b8ad8e5c6d290954\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f431e247d394b00b8ad8e5c6d290954\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The next call, by my list, is a Green call, and it is a 5-minute call. You are seeking the call, Mr Hague?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u00225ed232e628034f309bc6dd0692e51315\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ed232e628034f309bc6dd0692e51315\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, Mr Deputy Speaker, I would love to seek it. Thank you very much. By my reckoning it was another two calls away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI have recently had a series of questions for written answer directed to all Cabinet Ministers, asking them what meetings they have held with the organisation Crosby/Textor, which we know, of course, is an organisation that in the UK has had a very close relationship with the UK Government, lots of contact with UK Ministers, and which also has been representing the tobacco industry. So it certainly seems a relevant question to ask here. I have not got all of the answers back yet, but some of them have been of the form: \u201CI have not met with Crosby/Textor.\u201D, and good on those Ministers. There are other Ministers who have responded: \u201CI have not met Crosby/Textor in my ministerial capacity.\u201D Of course, that is technically a sound answer, but it does beg the question, does it not, of what capacity they may have met Crosby/Textor in. Indeed, one suspects that they may have met Crosby/Textor in their capacity as members of a political party that is desperate to retain power at any cost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI am interested, of course, in analysing the advice Crosby/Textor may have given on the basis of this Government\u2019s actions. It seems like a simple plan. One part of the plan is to demonise and penalise those members of our society whom the Government believes its voters do not like. That is why we have seen the beneficiary bashing. That is why we have seen the rhetoric against workers and against unions. That is why we have seen the ongoing rhetoric about being tough on crime. That is actually where this Government comes from. It believes that its voters do not like those things and so that is what it talks about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EAnother strand of the strategy has got to be a bunch of measures aimed at advantaging National\u2019s mates. That is why we have seen the weakening of worker protections, the lowering of wages, and the weakening of environmental protections. That is all about driving down the costs of business at the expense of our environment, and at the expense of labour, which, of course, is working people. That is why we have seen tax cuts for the rich. That is why we have seen some of the appalling cronyism in this last term of Government. One thinks, for example, of the appointment of Susan Devoy as Race Relations Commissioner, without ostensibly having any qualifications whatsoever for that role. That is why we have seen this gross abuse of proper process around the Skycity convention centre deal. That is why we have seen the appointment of Ian Fletcher\u2014the Prime Minister\u2019s childhood friend, a person who was not even shortlisted for the role\u2014as the head of the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB). That sort of cronyism is another part of this Government\u2019s plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003ESpeaking of the GCSB, we are in this House at the moment debating the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill, a bill that, amongst other things, greatly expands the role of the GCSB into economic areas, and that is a chilling intrusion into the rights of New Zealanders. On all of the other issues, besides the ones that are about demonising National\u2019s opponents and advantaging its mates\u2014areas like the economy, health, and education\u2014National approaches those on the basis of political ideology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2aef370b8b442dca2b5fd33ebc1ba4f\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Look, I will just pause you here because I am working off a list that has another Green call further on. I am not sure whether this is the one you assumed\u2014whether it is a 5-minute or a 10-minute call. Do you have another Green speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253a5b1c7a1264252936f8936a45e1e50\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we do\u201410 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fed7bc425a247efbe05da7700cbc794\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right, then yours is a 5-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229035cd18b6d34184a81ee9fcdc9ce261\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE\u003C/span\u003E: How long do I have?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afa8ccaa9328492fb747275551a3af8e\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: 1 minute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b05c60871bb1404aa150754e0fa7a954\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much. So all other issues are approached purely from the point of political ideology and that is not in the interests of New Zealanders. Where has all the rhetoric gone about rebalancing the economy? Where is the rhetoric now about the underclass in New Zealand? We do not hear that any more. We ask ourselves the question, who is this Government actually for? The answer is that this Government is for its mates. This is not a Government for New Zealanders. It is not a Government intended to advantage this country now or in the long term. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00229304cb7605114536979ee5595c487bd9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229304cb7605114536979ee5595c487bd9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Are we going to have another call? Wake up, Mr Auchinvole.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b7d90dd2138402b94e0a652f9a8b864\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: I had understood\u2014my apologies\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022072e9ead60df4c3da180378f22754a78\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member has not called yet. Would he like to call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u00221c8d175ebd3345ffbaff1edda3d598d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c8d175ebd3345ffbaff1edda3d598d6\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National):\u003C/span\u003E My hesitation was because I understood\u2014I am sorry\u2014that there was to be a further Green speaker, but in that absence, I am more than happy to fill that gap. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EI recall attending a presentation by a Governor of the Reserve Bank in Greymouth\u2014I think it was in about 2003\u2014and the governor spoke of economic challenges. I remember that he was asked to describe or quantify what a challenge was, exactly, and he responded that it was any economic activity or event that impacted on the normal state of the economy. He was then asked, in true West Coast interrogative style, to describe what the normal state of an economy is or was. His response was that the economy was in a normal state when all of the elements were typically in balance. He was then asked if that ever occurred or was it a mythical concept, or was it a bit like the typical summer we all remember as occurring during our childhood that never occurs nowadays. He thought for a while and then agreed that it was, in fact, like the typical summer that we all remember, for an economy to be in a normal state. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EWell, what a series of challenging economic events this Government has had to deal with. New Zealand businesses, families, and individuals have all faced the effects\u2014the buffeting effects\u2014of the global financial crisis, the devastating Christchurch earthquake, and continuing global uncertainty. Each of those things on their own would have had an enormous impact on the economy. Any of these things individually could have had a calamitous result when one considers the fragile and failing state of the economy this Government was given, handed, to manage as Labour left the Treasury benches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EIt would have been easy and understandable if New Zealand had spiralled downwards like other economies through the developed world did. There was, however, a further event that occurred during the same period that was to have a major impact on how the economy behaved, and that was the election of a National-led Government under the prime ministership of the Rt Hon John Key, with the Hon Bill English as the Minister of Finance and a very strong and professional, committed grouping of Cabinet Ministers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EHistory has continued to play out since that event, from the Prime Minister\u2019s commitment to look after everybody and create a brighter future for New Zealand, to embarking on a programme to build momentum in the economy. Budget 2013 is a momentum-building Budget. The Budget confirms that New Zealand is on the right track, with forecasts of economic growth, an increase in jobs, rising wages, and a return to surplus by 2014-15. There is a firm commitment to having a Government focus on four main priorities: responsibly managing the Government\u2019s books, building a more competitive and productive economy, delivering better public services, and rebuilding Christchurch. National is building towards having a stronger, more stable economy that can weather global economic storms and deliver opportunities, higher incomes, and more jobs for New Zealanders. Budget 2013 continues our work to build a brighter future for Kiwi families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EI think everyone realises, because the wonderful thing about Parliament is that we all come from different parts of the country, that the challenges have spread through the country at a different rate, with different periods of effect, and at different times have affected different regions. On the West Coast and in Tasman, the area that I live in, the ripples of the Christchurch earthquake were not restricted to that fair city. Indeed, I think it would be fair to say that they were felt throughout the South Island and, indeed, into the North Island, as well. But our second-largest city in the country is, in fact, a tertiary centre for the whole of the South Island, and its recovery is crucial to all families who live and earn a living in the south, and we are very, very cognisant of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe work that has been done\u2014and I had the privilege of chairing the committee that set up the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority, or reported to the Government on the establishment of that authority, and from then on the energy that has poured into Christchurch has been fantastic. We very much are in step with the people who are living out their family lives in that city as it changes and continues to change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe Coast economy held up very well, with very high household incomes, prior to the economic storm gripping the mining industry and then the dairying sector suffering its first drought on record. The closure of a major employer in Westport, although not unexpected\u2014and put off for a further 2 years\u2014has come eventually at a cruel time for the families concerned. The trick, however, while one is weathering the difficult times, is to recognise that the right hands are on the tiller in Government. Things are improving and will continue to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003ELet us look at some of those focus points that we are talking about. There are additional measures to build a more competitive and productive economy. ACC levy cuts will leave another $300 million in the economy for businesses and households in 2014-15, increasing to around $1 billion next year. In the West Coast - Tasman, although we do have an extremely large employer in the form of Talley\u2019s and in the form of the major coalminers, most of our businesses are small and most are family businesses. ACC cuts will be something that really will make a difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EWe have allocated $1.5 billion of proceeds from the successful Mighty River Power share offer to Christchurch hospitals, irrigation infrastructure, upgrading schools, and the KiwiRail Turnaround Plan. Although I am not trying to be selfish about these things, other South Islanders will recognise the significance of those events to people who live down there. The railway is a very important part of our lives. Christchurch Hospital is, as I have already said, a tertiary centre for the rest of the South Island, irrigation infrastructure will increase opportunities for more productive farming throughout Canterbury, and I think the schools upgrade will probably be of greater benefit to Christchurch than to anywhere else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249b95d20dcec44ba9b02bafef033bed4\u0022\u003EDr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Really? Thanks for reminding us of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b35457c245524b8cb48de197e694dfdd\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: The member across the House is agreeing with everything I say, which is nice to see. But, yes, it is good that we will have those opportunities for development in the South Island. Gosh, they deserve it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EMeridian will be the next company prepared for a partial share sale to New Zealand investors later this year. Let us hope that we do not see the sorts of spoiler tactics that we saw last time, which almost\u2014almost\u2014sort of reached the stage of being malicious, I think, in the Kiwi mind. They almost reached the stage of being malicious. So that money will then be available for vital infrastructure, without further increasing our debt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003ELegislation to improve housing affordability has been frequently spoken of here. There is a memorandum of understanding with the Reserve Bank Governor confirming a range of measures, if needed, to protect the economy from periods of excesses and growth in credit and housing prices, reduce reliance on unstable sources of funding, and require banks and other financial institutions to better manage their own risks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EIt is significant that I began by speaking about the Reserve Bank Governor and, coming to the end of the speech, that I am ending with the same thing, because it is about the stability of New Zealand\u2019s economy. This Budget does a lot to help it. There was talk this morning on the radio about what would happen if there was a change of Government. I would just like to close with a comment from my Labour neighbours, whom I have a lot of fun with, especially in the duck-shooting season and that sort of thing. We were having a chat one day, and they said: \u201COh, well, if the court case works, you could be without one of your MPs, and that would mean that you would lose your majority. What are you going to do then?\u201D. I said: \u201CWell, I guess what would happen then is there could easily be an election, and then you guys could get in and you could form a Government with the Green Party.\u201D Their response was immediate, spontaneous, and honest. They said: \u201CTo hell with that.\u201D I said: \u201CBut they\u2019re your guys.\u201D They said: \u201CWe\u2019re not ready, and we don\u2019t want to be with them.\u201D This is the voter. I can only conclude by putting it the way they put it to me: \u201CWe need a strong Government. We need a firm Government. We might not like you very much, as National, but that\u2019s what you are giving us.\u201D And that is what we will continue to get. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00221e537d37ee2646b88aae2e2fa5d4392e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e537d37ee2646b88aae2e2fa5d4392e\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to rise after my fellow southern MP Chris Auchinvole and perhaps address what Budget 2013 meant for us in the South Island and, more broadly, what Budget 2013 meant for New Zealanders. It was a Budget of no vision. It was a Budget that laid out a series of contracts. That is the way in which these people choose to govern. Members opposite are nodding their heads, like this is a good thing. This is the way this Government has chosen to govern: a willing seller and a willing buyer. It is as simple as that for the Government. We have seen it in the creation of charter schools. We have seen it in the fact that we have sold out the education of our young people to a willing seller and a willing buyer. We have seen it in the dodgy deal around Skycity. What we have is a Government that is not about government for the people and for all people; it is about government for its mates and finding the best deal on the table. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat we have been told by members opposite is that Budget 2013 was a momentum-building Budget, and that it was all part of this brighter future. Well, this is something that we fail to see. Budget 2013 was a continuation of letting ordinary New Zealanders down. It was a Budget by a Government that has lost touch with people who are struggling to make ends meet, to meet the needs of their families, and to even get a job. The Government is more interested in looking after its mates than your mates. It has sold off our assets, it has given tax cuts to the most wealthy, and it has grown the gap between rich and poor. This is not something anyone can be proud of. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI think the barracking across the House was asking for me to tell you about what Labour would have done. Well, I am more than happy to give you some kind of sketch of what Labour\u2019s vision for New Zealand is. Labour will do something to address the fact that people in this country cannot afford a roof over their heads. Labour will take real action. It will not have just rhetoric. It will be a Government that is hands-on, and it will lead the building of 100,000 houses in this country over 10 years. We are not content to sit idly by and wait for the magic contract to land on the table, while ordinary New Zealanders are shut out of the housing market. This is something that any Government has a moral obligation to do something about. A Labour Government will step up. A Labour Government will be a hands-on Government that will do something about this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ELabour will finally do something to lower ordinary New Zealanders\u2019 power bills. In my electorate I know there are homes that people simply should not be living in. There are homes that have 90 percent humidity overnight and a temperature of nine degrees. This is not a level of heat that I am willing for my constituents to live in. This is not healthy. This is not something that any New Zealander should be willing to tolerate in their country. The member who spoke before me, Chris Auchinvole, talked about what Budget 2013 meant for South Islanders. Well, for South Islanders struggling through yet another cold South Island winter, trying to pay their power bills, there was absolutely nothing\u2014zero, zilch\u2014in there to address the very real problem of people not being able to pay their power bills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe will, under Labour, have a Government that will be committed to creating high-wage jobs. We will have a Government that is committed to skills training, that is really committed to the tertiary education sector, and that will do everything in its power to match workforce requirements with the kinds of skills training we need in this country. What we will not have under a Labour-led Government is a Government like we have now, which is ripping tertiary education out of our regional centres. We have had tertiary education provision taken away from a whole list of regions. Canterbury, Gisborne, Hawke\u2019s Bay, Nelson, Marlborough, the West Coast, Otago, Taranaki, Waikato, and Wellington are all regions that now have less tertiary education provision in those regions after this Government came to power. These are also regions that have high levels of unemployment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EYou would think that offering some kind of training at level 1 and 2 foundation provisions would be a priority for this Government, but, no, it is not. It has done a competitive tender to the private sector through private training establishments, and it has shifted the money to urban centres. Once again, this is a Government that is leaving the regions of New Zealand to flounder, with absolutely no commitment to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ELabour will also be a Government that will be committed to giving all kids a great start in life. We cannot sit idly by while the Minister for Social Development comes to this House, question time after question time, and gives funny answers about whether or not she is measuring poverty, and meanwhile more and more children in this country are born into a life of poverty and their lives are a challenge. We will extend paid parental leave. We will make sure that kids have a great start in life. We will have a real and meaningful focus on early childhood education. We will ensure that every school is world class, and we will have the proper supports in place for parents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EOne of the things that have been listed by members opposite, when they rattle off the four priorities of this Government and where Budget 2013 is putting its money, is the recovery of Christchurch. Being the member of Parliament for Wigram I cannot help but address some of this. I would like to see some real action. I would encourage the Government to give some real action to addressing the housing crisis in Christchurch. The Minister will not call it a crisis. He calls it a challenge. Frankly, I do not care if he calls it Harry. I want him to do something about it. I have my constituents living in garages, I have my constituents living in cars, and I have my constituents living in overcrowded houses. This is a Government that thinks the market is going to fix an absolute crisis in housing in a city where it is simply failing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EMembers opposite need to wake up to the fact that there is market failure. It is absolutely negligent of them to sit back and wait for some magic market fix that is not coming. Meanwhile, people are not living in any kind of accommodation that I would call acceptable, from what I have seen in the course of being a member of Parliament over the last 18 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe need to see the problems around the Earthquake Commission addressed. People have simply been waiting for far too long. There are problems. We need to find real solutions. People cannot live with the messy situations that their lives are in for much longer. People deserve some certainty in their lives, and to have a start where they can rebuild. That is what Christchurch people want. Then to hear the member talk about the investment in Christchurch schools, the alleged $1 billion investment. This is not $1 billion worth of new money. Half of that money is money that would have been coming to Christchurch anyway. So let us actually have some honesty in this discussion. It is money that was in the 5-year plan, so it would have been there, with or without the reorganisation plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat we have is a Government that has run roughshod over community after community in Christchurch. We have communities that escaped the earthquake that this Government has come in and destroyed by closing those schools. What we now need to do is get behind those schools. We need to get behind those communities. We need to make sure that actually what we are doing is building community, and that we are not leaving them to flounder. I can tell you, the scars run deep throughout the city because of the schools\u2019 reorganisation. Phillipstown\u2014the member opposite might like to ponder on\u2014is currently before the courts, seeing whether it can stop the Government\u2019s closure of its school. It is a school that is in Christchurch Central. A community is no longer going to have the option to send their children to be educated at the school in their community. It is simply not good enough that this is what this Government has chosen to do. This is not about rebuilding communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI actually think we need to see some real action from the Government on many aspects of the recovery of Christchurch. We all accept that things are going to take time, that there has been a huge disaster in Christchurch, and a mammoth effort is required, but the fact that people do not have proper houses to live in is not something that I can sit idly by and say nothing about. We have to see some action on housing. What we need throughout this country, as well as in Christchurch, is a Government that is prepared to be hands-on, that is prepared to show some leadership, and that has a vision. That will be a Labour-led Government, and it will be after the next general election. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c978bc1fa91d4b7f837b6332dfe6f5f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c978bc1fa91d4b7f837b6332dfe6f5f3\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. Kai a koe e hoa, e Mita, nui atu te mihi ki a koe m\u014D t\u014D haerenga mai i roto i te Whare o te Raiona. N\u014D reira, nau mai, haere mai. Ng\u0101 mihi, ng\u0101 mihi, ng\u0101 mihi ki a koe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Assistant Speaker. To you, colleague Mita, an overwhelming tribute to you for coming into the House of the Lion. So welcome, welcome. Acknowledgments, greetings, and salutations to you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI want to talk first about the farmer-hater whom I heard in the House this morning, David Cunliffe\u2014that man who so wants to be the leader of the Labour Party. You know, he railed against the rich in his speech. He railed against the rich, and told us how he loves the poor. But he does not want to live in New Lynn. He does not want to live with the poor people in New Lynn. He would rather live in Westmere\u2014[Interruption] Oh, I am sorry; it is Herne Bay. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI love it when we see the Labour Party members get on their hind legs and yell out: \u201CWe are against mining. We don\u2019t want to see any oil exploration or any mining in our electorates.\u201D Do you know what? That same day they go to the airport and wave goodbye to their sons and daughters and their nieces and nephews who are going to Australia so that they can go and get mining jobs. For goodness\u2019 sake! Those members think that that is the way to prosperity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EIf you were to listen to the speeches we have heard this morning, and it is undoubted that we do not listen to them\u2014or many people, anyway\u2014this country is in dire straits. This country is falling over. So why do we have 3 percent growth? Why are we projected to have growth in the next few years of 2 to 3 percent? If that was the case, if our country was a basket case, we would be going backwards economically. All those members can do is say to foreign investors\u2014and, mark my words, it is not the investment of me and my mates in New Zealand; it is actually the foreign investment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283596538b9324240828b16342fc6691d\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: All your rich crony mates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228951e9df5569491587fe8b11f3c9cea9\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014all my rich mates out in Te Atat\u016B North\u2014it is the foreign investors. It is the investment money that comes from overseas that makes us the country we are. Labour\u2019s big policy announcement\u2014and I know that it resounds well with the general public, and that goes for any country\u2014is to say that the housing problem is all foreigners. It is due to foreign investment. It is due to the foreigner buying a house in New Zealand as an investment. I have not once heard any Labour MP talk about greenfields and brownfields. I have not heard one Labour MP talk about freeing up land so we can build houses, so people can have what you and I had, which is the opportunity to purchase your first home. Once you have got your first home, the world is your oyster. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003ELabour members talk about Skycity. Listen, we in Auckland and in New Zealand get a free\u2014listen up\u2014a free convention centre. It is a world-class convention centre, with thousands of jobs not only in the building of that place but also in the running of that place. The downstream jobs that come out of that are enormous\u2014are enormous. For what? For a couple of hundred extra pokie machines. I tell you what. When the pokie machine number is all tallied up, it is still less than it was 10 or so years ago. So what is the big deal? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThe Government Communications Security Bureau\u2014I see in the papers for the last week there have been some warnings from the United States of America over some terrorist attacks that might happen. I wonder where and I wonder how it got that information. It did not just think about it. It got an intelligence-gathering machine. That is how you protect your nation. The hysteria that is being thrown around by the Labour Party and the Green Party about mass surveillance\u2014it is not going to happen. Here is the reason why. No agency has the capability of mass surveillance. Not one of the organisations in New Zealand has that capability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI want to talk about national standards, just for a moment. When national standards were proposed by the Hon Hekia Parata, everybody fell off their horses. They said, basically, that the sun was not going to come up in the morning and the sky was going to fall in. Well, lo and behold, because of national standards, people are succeeding\u2014people are succeeding. Have a look in the Dominion Post from yesterday, at the front page.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b97e08407e94f6f970d052e538ac2b1\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: It has nothing to do with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228bce43b366f4b86886683fe347cb8fd\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it has got nothing to do with standards. It has got nothing to do with national standards, says Kris Faafoi from Mana, who does not really know where McDonald\u2019s is. I have got to tell him this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284949b02f16e4c1aaf6ebe1573e0f9ae\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Do you know where it is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221be996c2cfab47fc9ff6982b857d528e\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yes, I know where every McDonald\u2019s is and, I tell you what, I even know where the 24-hour ones are. It is like this. If you set standards and you keep standards up, then our kids will succeed. There are more people now in training\u2014training for proper jobs, quality jobs\u2014than ever before. Gone are the days when you could just go off on your own and get the Government to pay for a basket weaving course that was never going to get you anything, or a hair braiding exercise down at the local polytech. No, that is not a good spend. That is not a good spend of taxpayers\u2019 money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263a085b064d0462586cdbada38a83d2c\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, not again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292cc2a0ca53b47419b3229f6f99f708b\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, here he is\u2014here he is. He is the working-class hero, Andrew Little, just waiting\u2014waiting in the wings\u2014to be able to get that top job. He has always coveted that top job. He was like that in the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union, but he wanted to move up, so he joined the Labour Party and now he is after David\u2019s job. Now he is after David\u2019s job, but I am not sure which David.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279be2b335b4c4b14931f624ab0e59f2b\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: How many parties? Three parties?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b529e34c9f6748d7b030ee263242c25e\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Three, mate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efa5d8dec3e64a2c92d48aabaa952c2d\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Three?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c17760044aae4908906e51d21a9acd40\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Three and proud of it\u2014and proud of it. It is something you could not do\u2014well, not you, Mr Assistant Speaker. But I tell you what, we also heard the figure this morning about power price rises. Under a Labour Government, there was a 72 percent increase in power prices. Under this Government, and we have been in for only one and a half terms, it is 16 percent\u201416 percent. So if Labour members want to quibble and argue about what has been going on\u2014you hear from David Cunliffe, that man who lives in Herne Bay and represents the poor people of another electorate. He just loves it, does he not? What was that, David? No, sorry, you cannot speak. He talked about the razor wire and the secure, gated communities\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a91bb1e3a3d4a35b9594c786abd67a6\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s like Herne Bay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc8f4ff35f3c41c48ee91be2838af88e\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and he knows this from sitting on his deck in Herne Bay. I have heard that you are not supposed to go down that road, and people are representing their electorates, but the thing is that when you rail against the rich and you rail against the people on the Forbes rich list, and then you have the gumption to get up and say: \u201CI support the poor. All our policies are about poor people.\u201D and you do not want to even live in that electorate, you do not want to even live with the people whom you supposedly represent\u2014and I know what Labour members are going to say. They will have a go at the Prime Minister. But let me just finish on this note\u2014let me just finish on this note. When you wave goodbye to your sons and daughters and your nieces and nephews, but you will not allow them to get a job in that industry in your own country, that word starts with an \u201Ch\u201D, and I will let you work out what that word is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u00228ec766f880584eaa91401821a44a2e0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ec766f880584eaa91401821a44a2e0e\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. I understand that Parliamentary Service is currently investigating the future of the Parliament TV broadcast. I mean, one idea is that we could have a worm or some sort of vote ticker. I think you would have seen that go backwards very, very fast after that contribution from the member Tau Henare. I think what the public of New Zealand heard there was a whole bunch of partisan politics, petty point-scoring, and personal attacks. I do not think the Kiwis want to hear that when we are talking about the economy. They want to hear about ideas and a vision. They want to have a sense that we are going forward, not this petty, personal politics of the member. I think it has lost him a whole bunch of votes. So there is one idea to kick off this debate this morning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI rise to speak on the Appropriation (2013/14 Estimates) Bill and the second reading of the Imprest Supply (Second for 2013/14) Bill. Obviously, it is a tremendously important debate to our country and to our Parliament. We are talking about the nature of the Budget, a significant tool that the Government and the country use as part of our economic future. Right now, you can read in all the papers and you can see in the international media the economic challenges New Zealand faces today. When you look at the issue of contaminated whey products and other dairy-based products, and the $13 billion worth of our dairy exports around the world, we have got to be paying attention. Obviously, we need to be doing the basics first, which is protecting the health and safety of, and providing good information to, New Zealand and domestic consumers. But I think it does put in stark relief the risks to brand New Zealand, to \u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D, which, obviously, the Chinese media has very strongly critiqued, and, of course, the economic dependency that New Zealand has on this one industry. In this debate I want to touch on some of those broad-based economic issues facing us that you can see consistently through the Fonterra dairy dependency we have in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn this debate I want to touch on three things. The first is the Green Party\u2019s vision for our economy, our plan for the New Zealand economy, which is to deliver a smart Green economy, lift our kids out of poverty, and clean up our waterways and our environments. We can have all three of those things. Secondly, I want to touch on the range of Green Party contributions, to show the broad brush of positive contributions the Greens have brought to this particular debate, and to look at two areas that I am passionate about, which are seeing cleaner, smarter, cheaper energy for New Zealanders and a thriving information and communications technology sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIt is pretty good to be standing here this week after that 5 percent rise for the Green Party in the poll we saw over the weekend. It is pretty good to be standing here, because we are an optimistic party. We are a positive party. We are not playing those petty, partisan, point-scoring political games. We are getting on with proposing plans. We are out there proposing plans that are resonating with New Zealanders. We are offering them trust, which I think is in some decline, when you look at the Government benches. We are offering real solutions. We are not playing games. This is important. This is the future of New Zealanders. It is about jobs. It is about the quality of life. It is about the standard of living. It is about whether Kiwi kids have shoes and jackets to go to school in. It is about whether you can actually swim in a waterway. If you look at the latest data, you just cannot have that iconic Kiwi experience of being able to go for a swim in a New Zealand stream or creek in many of our rivers and streams, and that is wrong. It goes against our core Kiwi values. So it is important that we address these issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe have got some significant structural economic challenges facing our country. It is more than just the surplus, which is how the Government has been putting this economic debate. What we have seen is a decline in economic competitiveness relative to other nations. We have seen growing debt and growing numbers of Kiwis out of work. Over the last 60 years we have seen New Zealand steadily decline down those OECD rankings. And we are not seeing the solutions. We are running as fast as we can just to keep up and to stay where we are, but still we keep slipping backwards. We work some of the longest hours in the OECD, yet we are still slipping backwards vis-\u00E0-vis other countries. Sure, you can point to Australia, as the Government benches are doing, but there the Australian Government has actually woken up to the fact that the mining boom is over. The plan to have just an extracted commodity - based economy supplying China is not a winner for Australia, and that is why it is trying to diversify away from it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIt is an important debate because we are talking about real issues, like the structural health of our economy and the future of New Zealanders. We have got real solutions to those challenges. When you look at the sectors we should be supporting, we want to see a thriving information and communications technology sector. We believe that we have got a huge opportunity in clean energy. That is what the experts say. When you look around the world, net international capital investment outstripped all the investment in fossil fuels and nuclear generation. For electricity generation, it went into renewables\u2014things like hydro, solar, and wind. This is where we have got a niche. It is a $23 billion opportunity, according to PricewaterhouseCoopers. It is about exporting clean energy and exporting information and communications technology. It is about being a niche in cleantech. This is where we should be looking. It is what the late Professor Paul Callaghan was talking about. New Zealand needs to focus on its strengths and its niches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EInstead, what we see is this extracted commodities - based vision from the Government, which is all about digging more holes for coal and mining, which fewer and fewer people are investing in and wanting to buy internationally, and trying to cram more cows on to our paddocks, with all the risks we have seen so starkly this week. While we are talking about addressing some of these challenges, we need to be looking at that massive current account deficit, but we also have to be addressing the environmental deficit, which has been growing more and more under the National Government, and we need to be approaching the social deficit. What I heard from Jan Logie was that the top 5 percent of New Zealanders own 50 percent of the wealth in our country. We are not seeing ordinary Kiwis getting ahead. National is not working for ordinary New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWhen you look across all the Green contributions in this debate, I think you have seen a very strong argument, a positive argument, from the Green Party. Dr Russel Norman talked about his plan to structurally balance the economy through things like a comprehensive tax on capital gains, excluding the family home; broadening the legislative mandate of the Reserve Bank to try to keep that Kiwi dollar under control, supporting Kiwi exporters in the productive economy; and then you see the capital market reform, including supporting Kiwibank. You see some good contributions there. Kevin Hague talked about health and how we should be planning for the future, not just for the short-term plan that Mr Ryall has. Catherine Delahunty talked about the priorities that the Government has got wrong in education, and its wasting those precious education dollars on ideologically driven policy. Metiria Turei talked about child poverty and the Greens\u2019 package of solutions, from the in-work tax credit through to better housing for Kiwi kids currently growing up in poverty. We know there are more than 200,000 of them. Ken Graham talked about the Greens\u2019 plan for global sustainability. We saw Eugenie Sage talking about the Greens\u2019 plan for \u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D, actually paying lip-service, not making it this marketing slogan that is being drawn in the international media and being called \u201Ca festering sore\u201D by the State-run Chinese media. It is about that Kiwi value of being able to go for a swim in your stream or river. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EDave Clendon talked about the Greens\u2019 prioritisation of spending in the justice system. Holly Walker talked about the Greens\u2019 solutions for housing in terms of building more State houses, in terms of supporting Kiwis into ownership, and, thirdly, about making sure those rental properties across the country\u2014and I have seen many of these cold, damp, unhealthy rental properties\u2014are healthy and are safe. What we need is a minimum standard for our rental houses. Steffan Browning talked about the biosecurity risks facing our agricultural sector. I talked about our vision for cleaner, cheaper, smarter energy in New Zealand. Julie Anne Genter talked about the Greens\u2019 plan to dig some holes. The Government always says that the Greens are against digging holes, as if digging holes is a bad thing. Actually, there are a few holes we would like to dig. One of them is in central Auckland down in the central business district. We want to build a central business district rail loop to transform the Auckland public transport network, to empower the Auckland central business district, and to transform our biggest city\u2019s economy. We have canvassed a range of positive solutions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn terms of information and communications technology, we had massive growth there, but the Government is not taking advantage of the potential. It is delaying things like the copyright review, which would empower and drive economic development. It is doing things like making rules for Chorus. All New Zealanders will be paying for the subsidies on its copper-based prices. We need a second internet cable because although there is some good investment from the Government in ultra-fast broadband, what we risk is having an ultra-fast intranet. We need to have more international connections so that Kiwis can work in New Zealand. Under National, what we see is that the main export of New Zealand is skilled Kiwis. What we need to do is have a richer New Zealand with a positive plan going forward and with kids out of poverty. We need a safer, cleaner New Zealand where entrepreneurs and Kiwis want to come back to New Zealand, where Kiwis can do their work in smart, high-tech niches, as Professor Callaghan was urging us to do, where Kiwis want to move back to New Zealand but can still participate in the global economy and the global culture. This is the Greens\u2019 plan for the economy. It is a smarter economy that focuses on our strengths. It is a cleaner economy so we can have quality of life for New Zealanders and that valuable \u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D brand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EUltimately, we are not playing those partisan politics games that you have heard in this debate from the other parties. What we are doing is putting forward a positive vision, and when you look at the polls, it is resonating with New Zealanders. Thank you. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u0022e90f655a47f643c0ac08381676620561\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e90f655a47f643c0ac08381676620561\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak on this third reading of the Appropriation (2013/14 Estimates) Bill because this Budget confirms that New Zealand is in much better shape economically than most of the countries that we compare ourselves with overseas. Our economy is growing at 3 percent. Our economy is growing faster than that of the US, faster than Canada\u2019s, and much faster than Japan\u2019s. In contrast to the economies of the UK and Europe, which are shrinking, our economy is going ballistic. That is because we are absolutely focused. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThis Government is absolutely focused on getting our economy right back on track. I would like to thank the Hon Bill English for his solid, Southland determination and discipline and for getting us through the worst of the global financial crisis in the best way possible. It has been tough and we have all had to tighten our belts, but we are building a stronger, more stable, and more resilient economy that will serve us well in the future. Our goal is to help businesses create more and better-paid jobs. We are doing everything we can to educate, train, and upskill our young people and we are focusing on developing the areas of the economy that produce the best return. Those areas are higher-value exports, in-demand specialist services, and building on our strengths to produce new products, new technologies, and new businesses that will deliver those highly paid jobs for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EBut to be able to create productive jobs that pay well, our basic economic infrastructure has to be efficient and effective. This Government has four strands for delivering a productive framework. The first strand is responsibly managing the Government\u2019s books. That means using money wisely and keeping down debt, and I have to say that thanks to Bill English, we are doing that pretty well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe second strand is to build a more competitive and productive economy so New Zealanders can earn their prosperity on a global market. That work is being led by the Hon Steven Joyce and the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment. The ministry\u2019s purpose is to grow New Zealand for all and to increase the well-being and the opportunities for all New Zealanders so that they can contribute to the economy and so that they can be part of our productivity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe third strand is delivering better public services. We are doing that by delivering more services for fewer dollars, and we are having pretty good successes in this area. We are having successes in areas like procurement. By buying in bulk, we are getting better prices. We are cutting overhead costs. We have managed to save $110 million a year on office rentals. We are getting great productivity by utilising online technology to deliver services cheaper and better. Kiwis have really taken to doing business online. They like the convenience. They like the fact that they can do something from their offices or their homes. This year 35 percent of passports were renewed online through the internet, 18 percent of companies filed their GST returns online\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6e197c3cc8542acbac509fbea930514\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: How many jobs did that create?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022361a11d12c2f428a862874c9a3612153\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and 93 percent of personal tax returns were made online. The Hon Clayton Cosgrove asks how many jobs were created by that. Well, actually, every single time you cut the cost of doing business, you have investment into more jobs. People have more productivity, and businesses can increase and grow. But the runaway success of this online work is actually SmartGate at airports. Believe it or not, since 2009, 6 million people have used SmartGate. That is over 50,000 a week. Now we are able to introduce that for US and UK passports as well. It is so much better. It is so much sooner and more convenient. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EFinally, the last and most important priority to me is the rebuild of Christchurch. That is all about supporting people to get their homes fixed, to get their communities restored, and to rebuild our city\u2014to rebuild the city of Christchurch and the small towns right throughout Canterbury. It is really important, as the second-largest city in the country, that we get back on our feet and back to being the entrance and the port of the South Island so we can continue to earn our living by exporting products to the world and by welcoming tourists to our city and also to all the other areas that they visit when they come through our city. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ESo these are the Government\u2019s first four priorities\u2014the four important legs of our economic framework. That framework underpins the opportunities, the health, and the well-being of all New Zealanders. They may sound irrelevant, but they have a key effect on every one of us. As New Zealanders we are interested in happy and healthy families, safe communities, jobs, and a decent education for our kids and opportunities for their futures. For that, we need economic stability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ERight now every family is better off because we have got the lowest mortgage rates for 45 years and because wages are growing faster than inflation, so household costs are down whether you pay your mortgage directly or whether your landlord pays his mortgage. Because we have managed the economy well, we can pay for public services. We can keep our communities safe. We can fully fund the police and corrections so they can do a great job, and they are. Crime is now at its lowest rate for 32 years, and in the last year alone the crime rate has dropped by 11 percent. More important, it has dropped in the tough areas. Violent crime has dropped by 7 percent, and youth crime has dropped by 18 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EBecause we are managing the economy well, we can invest in education and training. We are investing more for our little ones, getting them into preschool education to get them a good start. We are investing more for national standards so that no schoolchild will fall through the cracks\u2014so that every child will have a really good basic education and the opportunity to build on that to develop job skills and for further education. We all know that National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA) level 2 is about the minimum you need to be able to survive in our complex society and to be able to contribute. The latest results show that the number of young people getting NCEA level 2 is the highest ever. It has increased from 67.5 percent to 77.5 percent since 2008, which is a 10 percent increase. That has got to be a real bonus. We all want our young people to enjoy school, to embrace education, and to develop their skills so they can make the very best of every opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EBecause we have managed the economy well, we are also delivering better health services. More babies are being immunised, and we know how important that is. More elderly people are getting operations for hips and cataracts, and cancer treatment is now being delivered exclusively in New Zealand. There is no need to send Kiwis overseas. We are truly delivering better, sooner, and more convenient health care. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u00224ba7f742227d435f87da38c9ffdababe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ba7f742227d435f87da38c9ffdababe\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E That is a very wise choice, Mr Assistant Speaker, I am sure. I have such a commanding presence in the House, Mr Cosgrove, so I was the obvious choice. I want to focus a little bit on my electorate and the region of Northland, and what this Government has been doing in that area. I am very pleased that this conversation will be heard by another Northlander, Shane Jones. That will be welcomed. Northland is an area that is blessed with potential and dogged with underperformance. As a new MP\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8a808062b6642a4bbda721a45ab8acd\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Especially from the MP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd5a897bf0f646c19e519222d05f0047\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Opening an office in Whangarei, Mr Peters, does not make the New Zealand First Party suddenly become a massive presence in the lives of Northlanders. That is about all show and no do, Mr Peters. I will welcome that member at any time to come up north and lock horns with me about what we are doing versus what that member is saying about Northland. That member has got a lot to say, but he does not do much at all\u2014he does not do much at all. Just visiting the wh\u0101nau back there in Whananaki does not make the difference. However, I will refocus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aca533a149e410687a583ed2f8fa0ff\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How many roads have you done? How many roads are tarsealed? Come on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f089010bc2f84904869fa0e59d5f0646\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: If the member took time to actually drive around the electorate he seems to now have such a love and affinity for, he might know. Get up there and have a look\u2014get up there and have a look. It is not just about having a coffee in your office. I will come back to my point. Mr Peters will, I am sure, enjoy my invitation to come and experience what Northland is actually about, versus what he can see from the windows in his office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EWhat I did as a new member of Parliament was to say: \u201CWhat is the economic picture of Northland?\u201D, and we put together whole-of-region economic summits, two in the middle of last year, and asked 14 of the economic sectors of our economy to tell us what the enablers and constrainers were\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232dd0c3ebe744c21aa33c2b8d41ad409\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: And then what happened? Nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc7be4546c774f2e84945431cbeb7095\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Listen up, Mr Peters. Listen up. The member might learn something about what is happening in Northland at the moment. So what we did was we asked what the enablers and constrainers of the Northland economy are, and what will help bring the potential to realisation. What we found was that across those 14 sectors, 89 percent of the enablers and constrainers fell into nine very clear core themes. They were led off by infrastructure, followed by local government, the Resource Management Act, the perception of Northland in the hearts and minds of New Zealanders, the M\u0101ori economy, the opportunities and the challenges around minerals, the energy supply, and the high-tech economy that Northland has to offer and is obviously waiting to unleash. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003ESo the purpose of the economic summits was to put together an action plan as to how we could develop\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff88c531ae20482db85e48722bd847b4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe73ca698b664e8195c4628b84ecffa6\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Listen up, Mr Peters. Listen up. There is plenty to learn. The idea was to ensure that we had a whole-of-region economic plan that, ultimately, could be driven across sectors so that there was cohesion in how we actually realised that potential. The Northland Economic Advisory Group was born from that. It works with Northland Inc. in terms of a delivery mechanism to help work up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225b642e7c3294d94831242a7e5152e6a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: And what\u2019s happened?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022661865ff7e0f45abb3d3c7608c0ad527\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the potential from that. Well, if the member listens, I will inform him. Some 12 months on\u2014he is leaning forward; he is waiting with bated breath for this\u2014I will give some headlines as to what has happened. In terms of the infrastructure, let us focus on that. Mid-next year we will be kicking off the fast-tracking of the P\u016Bhoi to Wellsford road of national significance, a road that might not have started until 2017, possibly 2021. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bbe6780950148e893e93b4b0e0ded09\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s good for Dargaville!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdc01712f5124d6bb27e80476f00fd6a\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: We will be kicking that off\u2014well, it is actually good for Dargaville. If the member took the time to go and talk to some of his friends\u2014the one or two that he has\u2014over there, what he would actually find is that the most significant and important component that they see to unlocking the potential of the Kaipara is actually the road of national significance. Those Matakohe bridges\u2014do not worry, because I have got a plan for those as well\u2014will be aligned. They will be aligned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b66b6e21cd114ce3af826da4f8a84f31\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, really?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260f4100122b74a79ab850df62ad40834\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, absolutely. There is going to be plenty of work going on there. That member will talk about it; I am doing something about it. In terms of the, ah\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f7f604c5825426e818b9b6c7da39046\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you\u2019ve forgot your place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022979502f03c194a518e631f37ad7d339b\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. I am coming to it; I am just repeating what the member does so often\u2014he stumbles and stammers. When we look at the work that the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee and the Minister of Transport is doing here, we are also looking at how to get better synergies across our regional roading networks. There is some very good legislation that I know the member Winston Peters will be keeping a very keen eye on. The review of KiwiRail\u2014I am very confident that Northland\u2019s potential, the potential of Marsden Point and that port, and the significance of rail infrastructure alongside road infrastructure, means that we are going to get home on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003ELocal government reform\u2014Northland has been dogged by challenges in local government. This Government passed legislation last year to ensure that regions like Northland can reform their local government structure. There is a process in place now for that to occur, something that I am sure the Kaipara District Council will welcome with open ears, given the travesty that has occurred there. When we look at the Resource Management Act, we see that it is a major impediment to business development and the agricultural sector. That is being completely reformed by Amy Adams, who I think is doing an absolutely stunning job as Minister for the Environment there, cutting red tape, simplifying consenting, and getting rid of the vexatious stonewalling that we see so often. That has been welcomed with absolute open arms. That will be transformational in its nature.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4694991e99b4418a4ec54f5994c69cd\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Why is John Carter coming back?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3cd8a4285d84fb8aca021d2418478fd\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I do not know. Ask him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d77da80a5b0c419da985f02145cbcd97\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s your party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8d7dc7af89e437bbbb26ddbe0b81c5a\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Because he realises that Northland has got so much to offer. Now he is coming back to enjoy it. That is why. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003ENo longer will people like Winston Peters use Northland as the poverty whipping boy, as the welfare whipping boy, and as the poster boy for all that is wrong in New Zealand, because this member and this Government is doing something about Northland. We look at the labour force. We look at what is going on in the labour force. We have reformed welfare. There are 90-day trial periods, the youth start-up wage, and the reforming of the Employment Relations Authority. We are increasing the Youth Guarantee and expanding the trades academies. I could go on, but I am a disciplined member and will follow the instructions of my whip. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EI welcome the opportunity for Winston Peters to come and see what Northland is actually about. This Government is delivering for Northland and it is delivering for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00228cae8132db194d38a12573ddd3fa53ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cae8132db194d38a12573ddd3fa53ec\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. We all know that the House is the master of its own destiny, so I move that that member be given a further 10 minutes to try to explain what he was saying in the last 10 minutes, because it made no sense at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00221fc77c054d484f85ab0484bc8ea06362\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fc77c054d484f85ab0484bc8ea06362\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the House is the master of its own destiny, but the problem is, of course, that the member cannot ask for leave for someone else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8d6b9bbada24fcd9ef99acd7506bbd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8d6b9bbada24fcd9ef99acd7506bbd8\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Peters touched on a very important point. He identified a salient point in respect of the far north. We now know why John Carter is coming back after a very, very swift tenure as an ambassador to the Cook Islands. It is because he is shocked and outraged at the lack of representation by that member over there, Mike Sabin. Every member who has got up in this House, including that one, has been challenged by the Opposition to provide some simple numbers. Those simple numbers are the numbers of jobs created. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022878fe3e53601406480ec8823c3490a1c\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: Who got elected in 2011?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edaebce0431f4e4398ad0d31dfb19952\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: He can barrack at me and have a go, but it does not cover up the fact that he was asked, and I challenge him now. I say to that member now that I will yield to him if he gets up and gives us the number of jobs that his Government has created in Northland. We know that Northland has the highest unemployment of any area in the country. We know, and I will give that member some numbers: a 30 percent increase in M\u0101ori unemployment under his Government. He talked about pathways and strategies and task forces and priorities. All that the average Kiwi wants to know, whether they be in Northland or Southland or Otago or the central North Island, Mr Sabin, is where the jobs are. They were promised, in this Budget and others, a brighter future. They were told that things would get better. M\u0101ori were told that there would be job opportunities for them. They have been let down, and a 30 percent increase in Northland unemployment for M\u0101ori is an indictment on that member. No wonder John Carter is coming home, I say. No wonder he is coming home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn Northland, Sanford Ltd closed the oyster factory under this regime. I say this: if you ask any Kiwi around the country what they want from their Government, they simply want something simple. They want a fair go\u2014they want a fair go. They want a job. Why do they want a job? Because it provides some income and some dignity and some pride on the table. That pride leads to what this crowd talks about but does not create. That job, that income, leads to something called economic and social opportunity\u2014a chance for mum and dad to get up on the ladder, a chance for the first-home buyer who is in a job to try to get a house. That is what a job is about. That is what an income is about\u2014opportunity. This crew over here crow about that. They say they have a legacy of creating economic opportunity, but that legacy is not matched by any fact, whether it be in that member\u2019s electorate in the far north or anywhere else around the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EPeople want a fair go in respect of asset sales. They do not want them sold. People want a fair go in terms of housing. Young people cannot get up on the ladder. What do we say? We say we are going to build 100,000 affordable homes over 10 years. What is National\u2019s plan? No one knows. We say that we are going to put Kiwis\u2014to quote Mr English, but we will deliver on it\u2014in terms of housing, ahead of the queue and we will stop the foreign speculators coming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe say that we will train young people. We have a policy for the unemployment benefit to train young people and apprentices. Nicky Wagner talks about Christchurch. Well, the great man Gerry Brownlee came to the Finance and Expenditure Committee today. What did he tell us? That 25 foreign workers are being imported into Christchurch every day. That is 9,125 per year, and it is 1/16th of the unemployment rate of 142,000. We said to Gerry Brownlee this morning in public session: \u201CHang on a minute. Shouldn\u2019t you consider the overall costs of things, not just the price of a product or getting it the cheapest? Shouldn\u2019t you also consider the transfer costs? When you are doing it cheap and you are importing it, the people who are not being employed because you are not training them are on the dole, and that is a cost.\u201D But oh no; this crowd do not look at things holistically. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EPeople deserve a fair go, and they want a fair go in respect of their power bills. John Key says: \u201CKiwis are not paying too much for power.\u201D That is what he says. Simon Bridges, as Minister of Energy and Resources, said it as well. Well, no one believes these guys. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dff8f5f9720a483ab43d91c78e4a2672\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: 72 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5d22ab5876f460a8770e5634a4ff701\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Is Mr Sabin prepared to go up to his people, M\u0101ori and others, in Northland and stand on the stump and say to them: \u201CYou lucky individuals\u2014you should be grateful because you are not paying too much for your power.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aad1061593c14127bfc50a401d7ca9d9\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: Under Labour it was 72 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022123aec61f39c4c2494e75a87e861056e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no\u2014he has plenty of guts in the House here, but he will not go out to Kaikohe and other places and make that claim on the stump. We say we have a power plan. We will bring those power prices down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe have talked about wages. We have talked about training. We say we will give people a fair go with housing. We will introduce incentives to move investment across from the obsession we have about housing speculation and into proper business investment. So we have a plan. Over there we have strategies, task forces\u2014all sorts of things. Remember the financial centre of excellence? That was going to be the big hit. It did not happen. Remember the \u201Croad to nowhere\u201D, the cycleway? That did not create any jobs. So we have a concrete and practical plan over here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI just come back to every member, as they crawl their way into the Chamber, and to the Minister for Social Development, and ask them this: show me the jobs in the regions that this Government has created. Mr Sabin could not tell us. Ms Wagner could not tell us. They bring into Christchurch 25 brothers and sisters from overseas\u2014good souls, none the less\u2014as we have 70,000 to 80,000 young people on the dole, and they refuse to train them. They think if you throw a few coins at the polytechs\u2014which are doing an admirable job\u2014that that is training. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThese geniuses were so stupid. They had an earthquake in Christchurch\u2014a tragedy\u2014that is a massive economic opportunity, an opportunity to train the 30,000 to 40,000 young people in trade training that we so desperately need, instead of bringing in 25 of our brothers and sisters per day from overseas. I ask them whether that is a good strategy. Who is selling out whom? Where are the job creation opportunities for young people? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI come back to this. Kiwis at their essence are not greedy people. They just want a fair go. A job gives an income. An income gives dignity and pride. An income allows you to go home as parents and look your kids in the eye, as you paid for the bread you put on their table. It also gives an economic opportunity. You might\u2014might\u2014be able to put a little bit aside. You might be able to become a little bit entrepreneurial. You might be able to say to the wife or the husband or the partner: \u201CWe are going to plan, and we are going to try to save for a first home.\u201D But it does not help when the Government that was voted in undercuts those Kiwis and those basic Kiwi values and aspirations every time they try to have a crack, every time they want to get a job, every time they are looking for a training opportunity. Because, yes, there are some people who slip and slide around the economy; we understand that. But I say this, because I believe in this country: 99 percent of Kiwis who are in that lost and lonely category would do anything to get out of it, and are\u2014to quote the National Party pamphlets\u2014\u201Cambitious for New Zealand.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWell, if this is all National has got\u2014a 30 percent increase in M\u0101ori unemployment in Northland\u2014and if that is ambitious, I am speechless. If that is the ambition that these people have\u2014[Interruption] Oh no; you do not get that lucky with me, mate. You do not get that lucky. I challenge any of these speakers\u2014the member for Taranaki, Mr Young, and others\u2014to stand up and tell us just simply what Kiwis want to know. That is, how many jobs have these people created? How many practical training opportunities have these people created? Not slogans, not task forces, not pathways, not action plans\u2014those are meaningless to people, absolutely meaningless. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThey talk about fiscal restraint\u2014they talk about fiscal restraint. Well, I remind the Minister of Finance, as he is on the phone to upstairs, trying to work out who is leaking the next set of figures, that 9 years of surplus is the legacy of the Labour Government. Nine years of surplus\u2014not waste; surplus. I recall being attacked by that man because the National Party accused the then Labour Government of being too mean because we would not spend it. I say this: zero Crown debt, zero Crown debt, zero Crown debt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI invite these members to go back to the regions, with the two-speed economy we have. Regional New Zealand is withering on the vine, thanks to them, i.e., Northland\u2014withering on the vine. They will not tell us their unemployment plans. They will not come up and have anything practical, but they are good with words and they are good with spin. I say they are out of touch. This Budget is out of touch. The 142,000 people who languish on the dole queue every day, thanks to this crew, are the legacy of this Budget and the legacy of 5 long years\u20145 long years\u2014of this country being in the wilderness and rudderless, with an inward-looking Government that is more concerned with its own scandalous behaviour, propped up by two rotten piles, Mr Dunne and Mr Banks. This Government needs to get real. It needs to provide some real opportunities for Kiwis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002243dea688e4f04c5b80387ec04ff3fd9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243dea688e4f04c5b80387ec04ff3fd9b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to bring the Budget debate for 2013 to an end. It is a Budget that has been welcomed by the public, but the debate about it in here has been particularly shallow, as I think was indicated by the last speaker, Clayton Cosgrove, who was reiterating the best ideas that Labour had in 1994. Labour members are still talking about the same stuff. If there is a sense of unreality, it is in the public\u2019s understanding that Opposition members have not really moved from 1994 and the dynamics of that time. They are still talking to a world that is quite different from the one we are in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI just want to acknowledge today the resilience and the pragmatism of so many New Zealanders who are dealing with difficult circumstances with a positive attitude. They are trying to resolve their own problems, rather than expecting everyone else to resolve them for them. We find in discussions with all sorts of groups across our community, whether it is churches or M\u0101ori or iwi or social sector groups, a strong sense of willingness to get to the nitty-gritty, to resolve problems rather than hang on to them and repeat them for political benefit, and, increasingly, a sense of optimism that we are starting to achieve some things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EJust one stray fact that came across this morning is that youth offending has dropped by about 30 percent, faster than the crime rate is dropping. I would be the last to claim that that is because of a specific Government programme. What it is because of is a commitment across a broad range of community initiatives, supported by Government, with action that makes a difference and a focus on the real issues. That is what is adding up to a difference. All that is going on in an economy that has clawed its way out of recession and is starting to show some optimism. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThere are some imbalances at the heart of this Budget. At the heart of this Budget is a strong focus on housing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268dac3cd0267452a9c5229d462fbdd86\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: 6.4 percent unemployment again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022531ef06598b74389b9a9bc8a7378b470\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014both affordable housing and social housing. I would like to point out to the member that this Budget included the most significant changes in State housing in 70 years, with the broad support of the housing sector. We all realise that we can do a better job of assisting those who have serious housing needs, as well as running a more efficient property portfolio run by the Government, and, more important, affordable housing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government has taken a pretty straightforward view, based on sound research. The thing that cuts a lot of Kiwis out of the housing market is restrictive planning laws that stop the supply of new houses. There are a whole lot of other things that have some influence on the housing market, but this Budget is decisively focused on the biggest single influence. In the absence of action taken by this Government in that respect, it is quite likely that interest rates would be rising sooner, faster, and in a way that would cost every household in New Zealand more. Interest rates probably are going to rise at some stage, but the actions we are taking are pushing that back and putting less pressure into the housing market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe debate, I think, was characterised on the Opposition\u2019s side by its shallowness. The problem for the Opposition is partly that it is still stuck in a period some almost 20 years ago now, but partly that it is just not doing the work to refresh the centre-left\u2019s intellectual way of looking at the policy world. It is just not happening. What the Opposition has relied on is that the politics will fall in its lap. The nasty Tories will slash and burn. They will cut services. The public will hate it and therefore vote Labour. That has not happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIn fact, the striking feature of this Budget is that of all the developed countries, we are one of the quicker ones to get back to surplus, at the same time as increasing public services and improving the public\u2019s perception of public services, and that has been an achievement of the National-led Government and its support parties. What has become clear is that the thing that saves the Government money is a better-performing Public Service. What works for the community works for the Government\u2019s books. When we educate a child properly in their first 12 years in the system, we do not have to do it again. We save money. If we sort out the alcohol and drug problem of a prisoner in prison, they are less likely to reoffend, and if they do not, we save $90,000 per year. One of the more satisfying results of the policy of this Government has been the fact that prisoner numbers are now flat-lining and, in my view, will start to decrease, reflecting the same kind of trend as youth offending. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Opposition got lazy and it has been caught out. In this Budget we have addressed the issue that worries middle New Zealand the most, and that is the housing market, both for the wider macroeconomic risks\u2014if it goes up too fast and then collapses\u2014but also because of the pressure on the back pockets of New Zealand families trying to get ahead. I think we have now finally persuaded the public that you can get back to surplus, you can have responsible fiscal management, at the same time as doing a better job for those in the wider community who are the most vulnerable and most in need of support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EFinally, can I thank our support parties. Putting Budgets together when you are a small support party is not easy, but we have found strong pressure from each of our support parties\u2014the M\u0101ori Party, the ACT Party, and United Future\u2014to get what they believe is good for their constituents and New Zealand, but at the same time there has been a willingness to resolve those tensions into a coherent plan. They deserve a great deal of credit for that, and that is not always noticed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWe are very proud of this Budget, but, of course, we are only as good as the next one. We are only as good as the next one, and the next Budget has to be about not just getting to surplus but delivering real benefits and improved public services\u2014some real ambition there\u2014and also allowing all those New Zealanders and their businesses and organisations to grow this economy. We know one thing: the answer to a better-growing economy is not the one we are hearing from the other side of the House, which is more regulations and more tax. Everyone else knows that that is not the answer. What is the answer is more innovation, more risk taking, more savings, more exports\u2014more of the things that New Zealanders have shown they can do so well at, even in the difficult circumstances of the last 4 or 5 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fd13cfad5c9b4afe82e47e0d4f1edde2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Appropriation (2013/14 Estimates) Bill be now read a third time and the Imprest Supply (Second for 2013/14) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; Independent: Dunne.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2013/14 Estimates) Bill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224910b9ff797a4b46b765a71efed29b22\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EImprest Supply (Second for 2013/14) Bill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ee1ab127ce504a6ca37a4b533fc06f92\u0022\u003EImprest Supply (Second for 2013/14) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ed40d664133e4e4d92aa83d362bf1218\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00224e2939fcc11f43d59eb2d82144a2b890\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e2939fcc11f43d59eb2d82144a2b890\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Imprest Supply (Second for 2013/14) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002230656b9641a941c9a5138ec28dd79883\u0022\u003ERaukawa Claims Settlement Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221013fe18d46544c0b35ec0e3cf103578\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u0022639c1dfb24c74fe5b421705672afa5f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022639c1dfb24c74fe5b421705672afa5f0\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA (Minister for Wh\u0101nau Ora)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations: I move, That the Raukawa Claims Settlement Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee to consider the bill. This Saturday is the unveiling of the headstone of kaum\u0101tua George Whakatoi Rangit\u016Btia. As we remember him, we remember his crucial leadership. George was the chair of the Raukawa Trust Board who started this latest negotiation phase, and I know that today he would be very proud of this milestone. There are many others no longer with us but whose legacy is written into this legislation. This is a settlement built on the vision of honouring the words of t\u016Bpuna and building a strong foundation for tamariki mokopuna. Me hoki w\u2019akamuri k\u0113 ahau, w\u2019akamua ka neke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe future is behind us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThis settlement legislation is the absolute result of the Crown\u2019s actions and omissions. In this first reading we acknowledge the impact of the Crown\u2019s interventions upon Raukawa and on their commercial, social, cultural, and spiritual relationships with the land and waterways in their rohe. There is no question that the Crown failed to prevent Raukawa from becoming virtually landless. This restricted their ability to participate in new economic opportunities and contributed to the economic, social, and cultural impoverishment of Raukawa. Inevitably, then, in anticipating what tomorrow will look like for them, it is not just useful but vital that we look back over the history that has led us to today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EIn telling the story, we must travel back to the wars of the 1860s. What this bill makes known now is that the Crown acted unjustly in sending Crown forces into the Waikato in July 1863 and occupying the land and the region between 1863 and 1864. The final battle of the Waikato War took place between 31 March and 2 April of 1864 at \u014Cr\u0101kau. Approximately 300 M\u0101ori, a significant proportion of whom were Raukawa, defended \u014Cr\u0101kau P\u0101 against up to 1,800 Crown troops for 3 days. If ever there was a tale of David and Goliath, this was it. One wonders at the courage and the grit and the determination of the people of this tribe in standing strong against great odds. As a result of the sacking of the peaceful town of Rangiaowhia, many innocent Raukawa people were killed, including women and children. Those who escaped found their way back to the paramount chief of the day, Te Paerata, who led Raukawa forces against the invasion at \u014Cr\u0101kau. Some escaped, but many were killed, including Te Paerata. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EAfter that battle at \u014Cr\u0101kau, Raukawa participated in fighting in Tauranga, particularly at the battles of Gate P\u0101 and Te Ranga, including the bush campaigns. It was this support that led to the confiscation of the Raukawa lands and the earliest of the land courts. Raukawa trialled the land courts that would eventually sweep throughout M\u0101oridom. Because of their actions, the Crown confiscated land at Tauranga and the Waikato that Raukawa had interests in as punishment for what the Crown regarded as rebellion. It is deeply ironic that the Crown returned some land to individual members of Raukawa hap\u016B residing in Tauranga, but none to the hap\u016B of Raukawa within Waikato. The loss of life and property because of war and raupatu had a severe impact on the overall well-being of Ng\u0101ti Raukawa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E So today we think back to the confiscation of land and loss of life during those wars. We think about the alienation of land through the operation of native land laws and subsequent Crown and private purchasing, and we acknowledge the impact of this history on the economic, social, and cultural impoverishment of this iwi. To give some sense of what we are talking about, in a census at the end of the 1800s Raukawa were identified as one of the largest tribes of this country. Close to a century later, in the 1980s, Raukawa had been reduced to seeking alliances with surrounding tribes, such as T\u016Bwharetoa, Waikato, Tainui, and Te Arawa tribes, to retain their identity. This, then, is when the transformation started to occur. At this time the descendants of Te Paerata and other kaum\u0101tua of Raukawa resurrected the name of their t\u016Bpuna under the mantle of the Raukawa Trust Board and filed their first claim, Wai 443. These early trustees and kaum\u0101tua, many of whom are no longer with us, have paved the way for contemporary claims to be considered and negotiated. Some 28 years later, in May 2008, Raukawa mandated the Raukawa Trust Board to negotiate on their behalf for the comprehensive settlement of the historical Treaty of Waitangi claims of Raukawa. The Crown recognised the mandate on 23 September 2008. The rest is their history, our history as a Parliament, and our history as a nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThis is the day that we acknowledge Raukawa and their ancestors and their descendants. It is deeply interwoven through the hearts of the generations of Raukawa, whose recent and past history is one devastated by suffering and hardship. It is a history that resulted in the loss of life and was destructive and demoralising to this tribe. In the legislation today, it is noted that Raukawa has practised manawhakahaere, kaitiakitanga, and ahi k\u0101 roa within their rohe. In saying this, the Government pays tribute to the special relationship that Raukawa hold to the land and the waterways in this area. Waterways, in particular, have been the centre of Raukawa\u2019s commercial, social, cultural, and spiritual life. So as a nui from the rivers of W\u2019angaehu and W\u2019anganui, I acknowledge Raukawa on this pivotal day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EI want to thank Minister Finlayson for allowing me the privilege of opening the debate on this auspicious day. It is a day of tears, a day of memories, and a day to recall the enormity of the losses borne, but also a day to anticipate the next steps forward. I have a deep affection for the peoples of Raukawa\u2014in fact, so much so that I have somehow managed to attract one of their brightest young leaders into my office. T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Chris. Finally, I mihi to Vanessa Eparaima, the dynamic energy force who as the chair of Raukawa is tasked with implementing the outcomes of the settlement. I have to say that the pace of this settlement has been extremely slick and impressive. That reflects well on the leadership but also on the commitment to kotahitanga\u2014the pursuit of a shared future horizon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThere is a bold future plan included, which other speakers will attest to today, which encompasses a wide range of opportunities for development. I am particularly interested in two aspects of the settlement: the right of first refusal for 171 years over 84 properties owned by Housing New Zealand, the Waikato District Health Board, and the Crown, should they be declared surplus to requirements; and the cultural fund and cultural redress package designed around Raukawa\u2019s aspirations to reinvigorate their relationship with cultural sites of significance. There are particular aspects of w\u2019\u0101nau ora\u2014of our ability to thrive as people, to plant a legacy for our mokopuna, and to keep all our family safe and well now. I commend Raukawa for the vision and the commitment for this work. Finally, I acknowledge Nigel Te Hiko as the chief researcher, and Phyllis Tahere, Pat Cowley, Mal McKenzie, and Thelma Reti as the backbone of that team. Most of all, I pay my acknowledgments to the kuia, koroheke, pakeke, rangatahi, tamariki, and mokopuna who seek to participate in new economic opportunities and challenges emerging within their rohe in the 21st century. T\u0113n\u0101 tatou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00228017dbb4dc8b476d9f395e65dc00bb5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228017dbb4dc8b476d9f395e65dc00bb5f\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E \u0100 k\u0101ti, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa i roto i t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare. Kore he Whare hira atu i roto i te ao t\u014Drangap\u016B i te Whare e t\u016B nei. E ng\u0101 manuhiri kua tat\u016B mai ki Te \u016Apoko-o-te-Ika ki te m\u0101takitaki i a m\u0101tou ng\u0101 kait\u014Drangap\u016B M\u0101ori me \u014D m\u0101tou hoa P\u0101keh\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. Roa noa t\u0113nei rangi e t\u0101ria ana. Roa noa t\u0113nei rangi e whakaarohia ana n\u0101 reira t\u0113nei koutou e m\u0101takitaki nei p\u0113hea r\u0101nei te rere o te k\u014Drero, te t\u016B o te tangata ki te tautoko i te whakaaro kua pau i a koutou ki te whakairo ki te kapu o te pepa ng\u0101tahi me ng\u0101 reo o te Karauna. N\u0101 reira, e ng\u0101 m\u0101tua, e ng\u0101 whaea, e ng\u0101 huanga maha o roto o Raukawa, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EMe p\u0113nei te t\u012Bmatanga hei whakahua ake kia mau ki te kapu o te pepa, o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero ka pupurutia ki roto i t\u0113nei Whare me whakahua ake i te rohe i puta mai ai koutou i t\u0113nei r\u0101. Mai i a Wairere Horohoro ki P\u014Dhaturoa, t\u016B mai r\u0101 ki \u014Cng\u0101roto, te whare o te tupuna nei a Wh\u0101ita. Mai i Nukuhou ki Taup\u014D-nui-a-Tia ki H\u016Br\u0101kia ki te pae maunga i Hauhungaroa. Mai i Titiraupenga Maunga ki Te Paeroa o Raukawa, ki te tihi o te maunga a Wharepuhunga me te marae i Arowhenua, ki te pae maunga i Whakamaru; ka titiro ki te wh\u0101nuitanga o te rohe ki Te Koakoaroa-o-P\u0101tetere ki Maungatautau. Atu i kon\u0101 ki Wharepuhunga ki te tupuna a Hoturoa ki te marae i Par\u0101wera. T\u0113nei iwi a Raukawa m\u0113 t\u014Dna ingoa whakakakara. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 pea hore he k\u014Drero \u0101taahua atu i te piringa o te t\u016Bpuna a T\u016Brongo, me tana p\u014Duri i riro i te tuatahi a Ruaputahanga, i te tuakana a Whatihua ka tau te p\u014Duri ki a T\u016Brongo. Ka ahu atu ki roto o Kauhungunu, tae rawa atu ki Kahotea. N\u014Dna i reira ka waihangatia te whare, n\u0101na i \u0101whina. Ko Te Angiangi te ingoa o te hungarei. K\u0101tahi ka tau te titiro ki runga i te wahine p\u016Brotu a M\u0101hinarangi. K\u012Bhai rawa i te tuatahi a T\u016Brongo i m\u014Dhio ko wai r\u0101nei t\u0113nei whakaihi. Otir\u0101 n\u014D tana rongonga i te whakakakara mai i ng\u0101 rau o te kawakawa k\u0101tahi ka tat\u016B i a ia te whakaaro, kia riro mai i a au t\u0113n\u0101 wahine hei hoa p\u016Bmau. K\u0101tahi ka puta ko Raukawa. Ko koutou ng\u0101 mokopuna, ng\u0101 uri o w\u0113n\u0101 t\u016Bpuna rangatira o Te Ao M\u0101ori, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[Well then, greetings to us in our House. There is no other House in the political world as great as the House that stands before us. To the visitors that have arrived in Wellington to watch us M\u0101ori politicians and our European counterparts, greetings to you collectively. This day has been a long-awaited and thought-over one. So here you are watching to see in which direction the contributions will go and the position a person will take in support of the thoughts you each gave and crafted together upon the cusp of the paper in the languages of the Crown. Therefore, greetings and salutations to you uncles, aunties, and many relations within Raukawa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI will begin by outlining the region where you have come from today, so that places mentioned are captured and retained in the records of this House. It begins at Te Wairere and Horohoro and goes to P\u014Dhaturoa, where \u014Cng\u0101roto, the house of this ancestor Wh\u0101ita, stands. From Nukuhou it goes to Taup\u014D-nui-a-Tia to H\u016Br\u0101kia, to the mountain range of Hauhungaroa. From Titiraupenga it goes to the mountain range of Raukawa, to the peak of Wharepuhunga and the courtyard of Arowhenua, to the mountain range at Whakamaru; and to gaze at the vast expanse of the region at Te Kaokaoroa-o-P\u0101tetere to Maungatautari. From there it goes to Wharepuhunga, to the ancestor Hoturoa, to the courtyard at Par\u0101wera. This is the tribe of Raukawa and its name derived from the aromatic scent of the Raukawa plant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThere is probably not a tale more beautiful than the one about the union of the ancestor T\u016Brongo and his distress at the loss of his first love, Ruaputahanga, to his elder male relative, Whatihua. He was overcome with sadness. He then moved on to the Kahungunu region and eventually settled at Kahotea. While he was there a house was constructed, and he helped build it. Te Angiangi was the name of his father-in-law. In time T\u016Brongo\u2019s gaze settled upon the beautiful woman M\u0101hinarangi. He did not know at first who this betrothed woman was. But when the aromatic scent of the leaves from the Raukawa tree on her came to him, he resolved immediately that he wanted that woman to be his wife. And so Raukawa was born. You are the grandchildren and descendants of those two noble ancestors of M\u0101oridom, greetings, salutations, and acknowledgements to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E We rise to support this Raukawa Claims Settlement Bill. This is a bill that relates to a tribe who are a living example of a very bleak period of New Zealand\u2019s history in the North Island. Recently, we were told about the stories of a hap\u016B of Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu and the effects of colonisation on that part of Aotearoa. But the story that lies behind this particular iwi is a story that opens our eyes and reminds us about how voracious the appetite was amongst our settler, pioneer, colonial ancestors. They came with a voracious appetite for land, and nothing\u2014not the law, not tikanga, and not the gospel\u2014was going to stand in their way. Ng\u0101ti Raukawa are a part of the broader community that we refer to in M\u0101oridom as the upholders of the K\u012Bngitanga, but in this particular story\u2014and that is why this bill is so cleverly crafted\u2014it tells the story that additional grievance was visited upon Ng\u0101ti Raukawa when 20,000 acres of their land was used to settle the grievances of a further dispossessed group of M\u0101ori from Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu. In that sense it has got the resonance of the history of the Native American people: moving tribes of Indians from one particular part into Oklahoma and dislocating others. So we have got a little burst of that in our own history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe bill isolates the most egregious examples of what happened to the matuas of this iwi. It links their struggle to one of the most iconic battles in the history of the Crown, P\u0101keh\u0101, and tangata whenua. I refer here to \u014Cr\u0101kau. In addition to that, it points out that once matters in Tauranga Moana reached the point of bloodshed they also suffered. So, in many respects, when we deal with this bill we are dealing with an iwi that have had the harshest form of treatment as a result of, partly, standing up for their rights and observing the obligations of kinship, but also partly being at the wrong place at the wrong time and incapable of standing against the voracious appetite of the colonial land-gobbling taniwha. It is all laid out in this bill, and although it may not make for pleasant reading, unless we observe and acknowledge the debts of history, it is difficult to imagine how a small group like this can successfully move forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWe will support this bill. We will take an active role in ensuring that the submissions coming to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee are well received, but if there are areas where the bill can be refined, then both sides of the House\u2014I have got no doubt in my mind\u2014will have no hesitation in taking on such suggestions. The challenge for a select committee dealing with a Treaty bill is, however, that the tangata whenua on this side and the Crown on this side, they make a deal. It is never a perfect deal, because we are on the face of the Earth. We are not in heaven. You certainly are not in heaven when you are in Parliament. We can make only so many improvements, because at the end of the day it is a pact between the leaders of the M\u0101ori community\u2014whether they come in the form of a hap\u016B or an iwi or as in recent times last week in a bill known as the tokotoru tapu, or words to that effect. So they come in various shapes and forms but it is important that the members of this iwi realise that the bill will be expedited to the extent that it can be. There is no great politics of a divisive nature between this side of the House and that side of the House on these particular issues. Sometimes the exigencies of the parliamentary timetable and the k\u0113hua known as urgency do interfere with the sitting time, but I have no hesitation in stating that we will be supporting this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIt is an area where in another time there would have been an inordinately large and flourishing set of M\u0101ori communities. However, the household labour force survey on unemployment is out today, and I can assure you that for M\u0101ori families living in that area it does not make flash reading. We are dealing with a situation in which for many of the M\u0101ori families in this particular area, young males are afflicted with an unemployment problem of 20 or 25 percent. This bill is not the elixir that will wipe all those problems away, but it does provide what Eddie Durie\u2014in times gone by when he was the president of the Waitangi Tribunal and not suing the Crown Forestry Rental Trust\u2014talked about in the Waiheke Island claim report. He talked about a tribal endowment, a capital base that the iwi can use, rely upon, and grow for future generations to grow the prestige of the tribe to maintain the tikanga, to maintain the heritage, and, as time goes on, to expand economic opportunities for the people not only of the iwi but of the community who live close to where the iwi is located. It is always a balance as to what can be transferred and what is available to be dedicated to an economic outcome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWe have no hesitation on this side of the House in acknowledging the people here today and in working constructively with the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations and the Government of the day to ensure that the bill enjoys an expeditious passage. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u00227d4d066606e4460b9dbeb72205d972fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d4d066606e4460b9dbeb72205d972fd\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Mea tuatahi, kei a koe e aku rangatira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou i a koutou i haere mai i roto i t\u014D m\u0101tou Whare, te Whare o te Raiona, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, \u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Ki a koe, ki a koutou ng\u0101 mema o te Whare nei, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E[The first thing is to you my elders, greetings. Acknowledgments to you for coming into our House, the lion\u2019s den; greetings, and greetings to you all. To you, Mr Deputy Speaker and members of this House, salutations to all of you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EHaving been around this place for a few years, I have been able to listen to and see many Treaty settlements come and go. Without wanting to be whakahihi, which is sometimes my nature\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022846ba8bbddbd40ba99a8f5d566286dbf\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: No, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaefae7f3b1b4316ad7950c89fed6f00\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I said \u201Csometimes\u201D\u2014this bill, the Raukawa Claims Settlement Bill, is one of the Treaty settlement bills that I have been looking forward to. My colleague, my tuakana, Shane Jones has mentioned one of the reasons why I have been waiting for this to come to the House. It is a glaring example of the theft of land and how the theft of land, the confiscation of land, can have such a devastating effect on the economy of its people, its social make-up, and its cultural make-up. You get all the three things that make a people tick, and when that is taken away from you, it leaves that entity in such an impoverished state that it is near nigh impossible to get out of. I take my hat off to Raukawa for being able to get out of it in such a way that they are still here today, talking about their stories, living the life that I am sure their t\u016Bpuna would have wished for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThe settlement of this claim goes some way, not all the way. It will never go all the way. We should know that\u2014well, we should; I am not sure whether Raukawa will\u2014and we should accept that fact. My colleague Shane Jones talked about how iwi in America were moved from pillar to post, and he is absolutely right. One of the stories out of America that I liken to a number of settlements, and in particular this settlement, is the Trail of Tears. The iwi there moved their whole kit and caboodle thousands of miles and then were turned away after being welcomed into Canada. They turned round and had to go all the way back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003ETo have your own land used to settle somebody else\u2019s grievance is, I think, to me, worse than the act of confiscation. Who knows what the relationship was between Raukawa and Kahungunu. I am not sure, and I will not try to figure that one out. But can you imagine the confiscated lands being given to your \u201Cenemy\u201D? It beggars belief.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003ELike my colleagues around the House, I look forward, as the chair of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, to visiting the area and hearing the stories and the submitters on this bill. One of the peculiar things we face as a committee when we do these settlement bills is that we cannot change settlement bills unless, of course, the two sides agree. I have to say that for a long time, until very recently, the committee never delved into trying to change settlement bills. We had minor success. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EMy last point is this. I make a call not only to Raukawa but to any of the community that so wishes and feels the need to to make a submission, because there are far too many times when people do not make a submission, and then they wake up one morning and want to moan, and the deal has been done. Well, the time to moan and the time to support as well is at the select committee. It is at that stage of the passage of the bill. I am sure I speak for all of my committee members when I ask submitters to please make it interesting. Do not copy the last 50-odd submissions so that it becomes just a bit of an exercise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EAgain, I want to say to the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations that he is one out of the bag. He is the sort of person who sees that there is a job to be done and goes for it. I think we have seen the number of settlements that have come across our table in our time as the Government as a testament\u2014not boasting\u2014that these things have to be done. I also want to thank my Labour colleagues, Green colleagues, New Zealand First colleagues, and M\u0101ori Party colleagues for the collegial job that we do on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, and not only for Treaty settlement bills. I have no compunction whatsoever in recommending the passage of this bill. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u0022faa33a93d6954677b979312637a5f69f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022faa33a93d6954677b979312637a5f69f\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E \u0100, tiheiwa mauri ora ki te whaiao, ki Te Ao M\u0101rama. E aku rangatira Ng\u0101ti Raukawa, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. Haere mai, nau mai, piki mai ki te Whare P\u0101remata, ki te ana raiona e takat\u016B nei. Haere mai ki te whakatutuki i ng\u0101 wawata o r\u0101tou m\u0101. N\u014D koutou t\u0113nei r\u0101; n\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. E rau rangatira m\u0101 huri noa i te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, \u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E[Behold the breath of life to the World of Light and Enlightenment. To Ng\u0101ti Raukawa, my esteemed elders, greetings to you collectively. Welcome and come hither to the House of Parliament, the lion\u2019s den standing in readiness, ascend it. Come forth to realise the aspirations of those who have passed on. This is your day; therefore, congratulations and acknowledgements to you collectively. To the many leaders throughout the House, greetings, salutations, and acknowledgements to you collectively and to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ELike an orator with a favourite pepeha, once again I stand and say that to understand whakapapa is to understand M\u0101ori history. Whakapapa is the ties that link M\u0101ori by a common strand of DNA, and it is about how the history of the past is for ever remembered by those of the present because of a shared history with a common ancestor. But whakapapa, genealogy, and oral history\u2014k\u014Drero onamata (ancient history)\u2014is not about just the ancestors of past times; it is also about the here and now. It is about what is happening in the present and being able to guess what the future holds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI would like to welcome the wh\u0101nau from Ng\u0101ti Raukawa who are here. It is a great privilege for me to stand to tautoko this Raukawa Claims Settlement Bill at this first reading. It is in my time as a member on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee that we have been able to listen to and read the historical accounts of iwi M\u0101ori who have been able to settle their grievances with the Crown. I also endorse the k\u014Drero of our chair, my whanaunga Tau, that the history contained in these bills should be taught in every school throughout the motu, throughout the country. I know that other speakers will talk specifically about the various elements and redress that Ng\u0101ti Raukawa will receive in this bill, but for today I would like to take the time, as I do, to k\u014Drero about those extraordinary times of the 1860s, and the significance of those times relative to today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThe 1860s brought significant upheaval in our young nation. Governor Thomas Gore Browne\u2019s hui for loyalist M\u0101ori at Kohim\u0101rama in 1860 proved that P\u0101keh\u0101 Governments had no real intention of investigating M\u0101ori hope and aspirations of the time, for in 1862 the return of George Grey\u2014H\u014Dri Kerei\u2014from South Africa was about to set the scene once again. Fresh from oppressing natives and coloureds over in South Africa, he blew back into the country in the early 1860s to finish off what he started in Waitara 20 years earlier in starting the first Taranaki Wars. Also, he managed to kick up some dust by crossing the Mangatawhiri in July of 1863, thereby starting the Waikato Wars. The K\u012Bngitanga\u2019s refusal to sell any more land ultimately forced the Governor and Parliament to invade the Waikato. In the 1860s the New Zealand Parliament was semi-autonomous, and Grey still had some executive powers. It was at this time that Raukawa, as staunch supporters of the K\u012Bngitanga, were drawn into the Waikato K\u012Bngitanga confederacy because of that thing called whakapapa that I spoke of earlier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ENg\u0101ti Raukawa, Ng\u0101ti Maniapoto, Waikato, Ng\u0101ti Hau\u0101\u2014these great tribes of the Tainui had shared a common ancestry, but on a more contemporary level there were many families of Ng\u0101ti Raukawa who had intermarried with the families of Waikato and the Tainui confederation of K\u0101whia, as well as Ng\u0101ti Maniapoto. It was this genealogy that made the K\u012Bngitanga strong. It was their staunchness that put pressure on Auckland and the Government. Grey, master of the conquer-and-divide method of operation, brought in New Zealand\u2019s next biggest wave of immigrant: the soldier. Grey brought 18,000 soldiers into this country during his second term as Governor. Raukawa suffered because of this whakapapa, but especially at Rangiaowhia, east of Te Awamutu, in February and a few months later in March and April at \u014Cr\u0101kau in the year 1864. \u014Cr\u0101kau was the place where innocent people were slaughtered as they fled from their trenches. It was during this battle that Rewi Maniapoto gave his famous retort to Gilbert Mair\u2019s plea for the M\u0101ori to surrender. Rewi\u2019s famous words were translated as: \u201CFriend, I shall go on fighting you for ever and ever.\u201D Rewi was a fighting chief of Ng\u0101ti Maniapoto and leader of one group of rebels that included many individuals and families of Ng\u0101ti Raukawa. They joined because their immediate aunties, uncles, cousins, and grandparents were in direct conflict with Crown forces. For those Raukawa families, immediate whakapapa would have been the link\u2014immediate kin of today, rather than a shared common ancestor of some 800 years previously. Like in the Waikato, there were Raukawa families who were related to the Tauranga tribes and were also drawn into the conflict in 1864 and 1867 in the Bay of Plenty. By the time Grey had Waikato and the K\u012Bngitanga suppliant, there were still pockets of Raukawa resistance in parts of Tauranga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EIn 1865 Raukawa\u2019s interests in Waikato-Tainui land were extinguished, which seriously affected their ability to sustain and maintain their tino rangatiratanga and their mana motuhake. They lost important leaders in their conflict with the Crown. Some carried the stigma of the term \u201Crebel\u201D. Well, the Crown of the 1860s may have thought they were rebels then, but today the Crown thinks of them as victims of an oppressive, colonialist Government, and will make the necessary apology to Raukawa and also redress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThis bill will also address one of the country\u2019s most shameful pieces of land legislation, the 20,000 acres lost from the Pouakani Block, which eventually turned into the incorporated township of Mangakino, whose beneficiaries are from a completely different tribe, Kahungunu, from southern Wairarapa. Could there be a more visible wrong than this travesty of justice? People from Wairarapa having mana over 20,000 acres in the township of Mangakino\u2014could there be a more poisonous example of how to alienate rightful owners from their land?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E But that was not the only case of Raukawa being left out of certain entitlements that were negotiated in the 1860s. They were left out of the Taup\u014D-nui-a-Tia Block, and this also is a great mamae within the many hap\u016B of Ng\u0101ti Raukawa. The omission at Taup\u014D caused much suffering to those hap\u016B of Raukawa. The incidences of the Pouakani and Taup\u014D-nui-a-Tia land blocks are a glaring example of Government oppression and ignorance. Being from the south, a very similar situation occurred there as \u201Clandless natives\u201D, folks from the top of the South Island, were given lands right at the bottom of Stewart Island to compensate them for their landlessness. These stories are very prevalent right across the country, and it is great that we can bring them to light through the enactment of this legislation. With the enactment of this settlement bill, the wh\u0101nau and hap\u016B of Ng\u0101ti Raukawa will be able to start their road back to economic wealth and sustainability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI am looking forward to joining with my colleagues on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee as we awhi the progress of the bill through this House, and, in particular, to hearing submissions up in Ng\u0101ti Raukawa territory. I would just like to conclude my contribution there and I mihi to Ng\u0101ti Raukawa who have travelled down here today. I commend this bill to the House. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022 data-id=\u00229c85855bb92d4aa6bed09401c6c492bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c85855bb92d4aa6bed09401c6c492bd\u0022\u003EDENISE ROCHE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Ki ng\u0101 whanaunga i te Whare P\u0101remata nei, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and greetings, salutations, and acknowledgments to you all. To the relationships in this House of Parliament, greetings, salutations, and acknowledgments to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EI rise to speak on the first reading of this bill, the Raukawa Claims Settlement Bill, on behalf of the Greens, and I maintain that it is a privilege to do so. Firstly, I would like to acknowledge those in the gallery today who have travelled from Tokoroa and Te Awamutu. I particularly want to acknowledge the chair of the Raukawa kaum\u0101tua kaunihera, H\u014Dri Dean; the kaum\u0101tua James Clare, and Lorna and Ross Pope; the deputy chair of the Raukawa Charitable Trust, Kataraina Hodge; the chair of the Raukawa Settlement Trust, Vanessa Eparaima; trustees Malvina McKenzie, John Stokes, and Chris McKenzie; Raukawa\u2019s Settlement Trust chief executive officer, Mahanga Maha; and Treaty team members Nigel Te Hiko and Phyllis T\u0101here. I know I will have forgotten a lot of people who are up there in the gallery today, and I mihi to you as well. For those in the gallery and those who are watching this at home, this is a great day because this is the first part of creating legislation that addresses the injustices that Raukawa ki Waikato have lived with since 1860. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge those who are not here today. On the long journey there have been very many people over many generations who have worked to bring this settlement to the House. In particular, I acknowledge kaum\u0101tua George Whakatoi Rangit\u016Btia, who passed away nearly a year ago to the day. As the former chairman of the Raukawa Settlement Trust he played a huge role in the negotiations, and his work was, in turn, a continuation of the work that his father had done before him. The first claims were lodged in the 1980s, but the journey to this day started long before then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge and thank the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations, Chris Finlayson, and the member of Parliament for the area, Louise Upston, for their actions on the day that the deed of settlement was signed at Aotearoa Marae during the Queen\u2019s Birthday weekend last year in taking the deed to Waikato Hospital so that George Rangit\u016Btia could sign the document. It was a great gesture and a completion of a life\u2019s work to have this kaum\u0101tua sign the document on behalf of the settlement trust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EI do have to declare my interest. In Raukawa there is a saying: ko Ranginui te tuanui, ko Papat\u016B\u0101nuku te papa, ko ng\u0101 pout\u016B\u0101rongo kei Pikit\u016B, ko te poutokomanawa kei Ng\u0101tira, ko ng\u0101 pout\u0101hu kei T\u0101rukenga, kei Te Ng\u0101kau, \u014Dna maihi taka mai ki Te Wairere, ki Horohoro.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E[Ranginui is the roof, Papat\u016B\u0101nuku is the floor, the rear pillars are at Pikit\u016B, the central pillar is at Ng\u0101tira, the front pillars are at T\u0101rukenga and Te Ng\u0101kau, and the front barge boards hang downwards in the direction of Te Wairere and Horohoro.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EMy iwi is Raukawa. My hap\u016B is Ng\u0101ti Huri. Our marae is Pikit\u016B, as is mentioned in the saying. Before entering Parliament I voted on this settlement, and I was honoured\u2014very honoured\u2014to join the Crown on the signing of the deed of settlement at Aotearoa Marae last year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThe importance of the apology that the Crown has offered can not ever be underestimated. In the bill\u2014and in the piece of law that it will become\u2014clause 10(2) of the apology says: \u201CThe Crown profoundly regrets and unreservedly apologises to Raukawa for its actions and omissions that led to the virtual landlessness of Raukawa in the Waikato, and which caused suffering and hardship to generations of Raukawa.\u201D Those actions and omissions of the Crown are listed in the deed of settlement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EOther speakers have outlined in detail some of those injustices. For the record, I will include some of them. These injustices include the fierce reactions from the Crown to Raukawa\u2019s involvement in the K\u012Bngitanga movement and the Crown\u2019s actions against Raukawa during the 1860s wars in Taranaki, Waikato, and Tauranga and the subsequent loss of Raukawa lives and the destruction of property. They include the confiscation of land in 1865\u2014the raupatu\u2014the creation of the Native Land Court and the introduction of laws that saw the alienation of Raukawa from their land, the gifting of the 20,000 acres of the Pouakani Block to an iwi with no ancestral ties to the land, and the refusal of the Crown to recognise the iwi status of Raukawa until the late 20th century, a subsequent failure to respect the rangatiratanga of Raukawa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003ESection 3.10.2 of the deed of settlement document sums it up pretty well. It reads: \u201Cthe cumulative effect of the Crown\u2019s actions and omissions, particularly its failure to actively protect the interests of Raukawa in the land it wished to retain, left Raukawa virtually landless by the mid-twentieth century. The Crown\u2019s failure to ensure Raukawa had sufficient land for their present and future needs was a breach of the Treaty of Waitangi and its principles.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E Looking at the settlement, it is obvious that the Treaty negotiation team have done a really good job in bringing this settlement to the House today. It also remains clear that Raukawa have been very generous in accepting the terms of the deal. The redress offered by the Crown will never ever compensate for the incredible losses this iwi have endured. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThe commercial redress package, if the central North Island forestry deal is included, comes to around $50 million, but we need to put this amount into the context of other Government spending. I have said this before when commenting on the commercial redress in Treaty bills. We need to remember that the Government bailed out South Canterbury Finance to the tune of $1.2 billion, and those investors did not lose their mana or their land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EToo often we find the commercial redress packages for iwi are criticised by New Zealanders who are ignorant of our nation\u2019s history. The history outlined in the House today in the settlement deed and in the bill is acknowledged by both the Crown and Raukawa as being accurate. It saddens me to have read of this terrible suffering of my t\u012Bpuna and to know that the ignorant in our society will call this attempt to right some of those wrongs a gravy train. As a nation we have a long way to go to educate all our people on these Treaty settlements and the partnership arrangement between M\u0101ori and the Crown, which represents everyone else in Aotearoa New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThe cultural redress aspect of this bill is also really important, especially when we consider that Raukawa were not officially recognised by the Crown as an iwi until around 1988. Ensuring that Raukawa are named and have their relationship with local authorities and Government departments outlined in legislation enshrines Raukawa\u2019s rightful relationship with their traditional resources, which include geothermal areas, lands, rivers, and maunga, and it means that right cannot be disputed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EBut it does not mean that Raukawa are the only iwi with claims in the area. Along with these negotiations, neighbouring iwi have also been involved, as these areas have shared cultural value. I note that Raukawa have been involved with the co-governance deal on the Waikato River and with Maniapoto on the Waip\u0101 River. Of course, there may also be other iwi or hap\u016B from whom the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee may hear who feel that they have been left out of the process. That is not surprising, given that it is the Crown that dictates who it will and will not negotiate with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EFor the record, I should state that the Green Party position on these Treaty settlement bills is that we do not believe they are a full and final settlement. It cannot be a final settlement when there are generations of Raukawa to come who will be affected by the injustices of the past, and it is not a full settlement, because how can you compensate for what has been lost? Raukawa are generous in accepting these terms. It was a very good deal, but it was a deal none the less. Having said that, this is a day of celebration. I acknowledge that this is the time for Raukawa to plan for their future with a much better economic base. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EI will end with the last part of the Crown apology, which says: \u201CThe Crown apologises for its past failures to acknowledge the mana and rangatiratanga of Raukawa and looks forward to building an enduring relationship of mutual trust and cooperation with Raukawa that is based on respect for the Treaty of Waitangi and its principles.\u201D It is my sincere hope that we can move forward with that in mind. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022 data-id=\u00221446c2130ade4a9180f7792d6e1532e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221446c2130ade4a9180f7792d6e1532e2\u0022\u003ECLAUDETTE HAUITI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Ki Te Wairere, Horohoro, P\u014Dhaturoa, ko \u014Cng\u0101roto, ko Wh\u0101ita, e. Nukuhou ki Taup\u014D-nui-a-Tia, ki runga o H\u016Br\u0101kia, Hauhungaroa, T\u012Bt\u012Braupenga, Arowhenua, Wharepuhunga, Whakamaru, Te Paeroa o Raukawa. Titiro atu ki Te Kaokaoroa-o-P\u0101tetere, Maungatautari, ka titiro ki Wharepuhunga, ko Hoturoa, ko Par\u0101wera, ko te manawa r\u0101 o Ng\u0101ti Raukawa, e. Ki te iwi o Ng\u0101ti Raukawa mihi atu ki a koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003E[From Te Wairere, Horohoro, P\u014Dhaturoa to \u014Cng\u0101roto to Wh\u0101ita there, alas. From Nukuhou to Taup\u014D-nui-a-Tia and up on H\u016Br\u0101kia, Hauhungaroa, T\u012Bt\u012Braupenga, Arowhenua, Whakamaru and on to Raukawa range. Look upon the vast region of Te Kaokaoroa-o-Pat\u0113tere to Maungatautari and gaze at Wharepuhunga, it is Hoturoa and the heart of Ng\u0101ti Raukawa, Par\u0101wera, alas. To the tribe of Raukawa, I salute you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this Raukawa Claims Settlement Bill is to give effect to the deed of settlement signed by the Crown and Raukawa. The Crown failed to protect Raukawa from becoming landless, and the lack of land and resources undermined the ability of the iwi to participate in new economic opportunities in its rohe. This contributed to the economic, social, and cultural impoverishment of Raukawa. This settlement rights the wrongs of the past, and allows Raukawa to build a stronger future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003ERaukawa grievances include the Waikato and Tauranga wars of the 1860s, and the confiscation of Raukawa land following that conflict. The introduction and implementation of native land laws facilitated the alienation of Raukawa, and the Crown\u2019s failure to ensure that Raukawa had adequate lands for its present and future needs contributed to the economic, social, and cultural impoverishment of Raukawa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003EThe Crown acknowledges that its actions arising from interaction with Raukawa were in breach of the Treaty of Waitangi and its principles. Clause 10 states: \u201C(2) The Crown profoundly regrets and unreservedly apologises to Raukawa for its actions and omissions that led to the virtual landlessness of Raukawa in the Waikato, and which caused suffering and hardship to generations of Raukawa. (3) The Crown deeply regrets its actions during the New Zealand wars of the 1860s, which resulted in the loss of life and was destructive and demoralising to Raukawa. (4) The Crown apologises for its past failures to acknowledge the mana and rangatiratanga of Raukawa and looks forward to building an enduring relationship of mutual trust and cooperation with Raukawa that is based on respect for the Treaty of Waitangi and its principles.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003ERaukawa will receive approximately $52 million, which includes value transferred under the central North Island settlement in 2008 and estimated interest. Raukawa will have the opportunity to purchase part of the Pureora North Crown forest licence land, and will also have the opportunity to purchase up to 25 Crown-owned properties within a deferred selection period after settlement date, ranging from 6 months to 5 years. Ten of these properties would be subject to lease back to the Crown. Raukawa will have the right of first refusal for a period of 172 years over 36 Crown properties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003EThe settlement provides support for the strengthening of commercial relationships between Raukawa and Mighty River Power. Raukawa will receive $8 million to explore future commercial arrangements with Mighty River Power. Mighty River Power owns and operates hydroelectricity generation along the Waikato River in areas of cultural significance to Raukawa. The settlement includes an $8 million payment to Raukawa to assist Raukawa and Mighty River Power to enter into commercial arrangements if they so choose. The payment does not impose any obligations on either party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003ECultural redress recognises the traditional, historical, cultural, and spiritual associations Raukawa has with places and sites within their rohe or areas of interest. These include the vesting of 11 sites and Maungatautari. The Crown acknowledges that Maungatautari is of significant cultural, historical, and spiritual importance to Raukawa and other iwi. The settlement provides for the interests of Raukawa to be recognised in the future transfer of Maungatautari to te hapori o Maungatautari, the Maungatautari community; a $3 million fund to assist Raukawa to negotiate the sale of, or access arrangements to, sites of significance; and a pouwhenua fund, which is a $50,000 fund to assist Raukawa in the creation and erection of pouwhenua at sites of significance. In respect of the Waihou River, the deed provides for the interests of Raukawa to be recognised in any future arrangement reached regarding the Waihou River within the Raukawa area of interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003EOverlay classification acknowledges the traditional, cultural, spiritual, and historical associations of Raukawa sites of significance. The declaration of an area as an overlay classification provides for the Crown to acknowledge iwi values in relation to that area. The settlement provides overlay classifications over the maunga Pureora o Kahu and maunga Wharep\u016Bhunga. A statutory acknowledgment recognises the association between Raukawa and a particular site or area and enhances Raukawa\u2019s ability to participate in significant Resource Management Act processes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003EThe settlement also provides acknowledgment over several reserves. The settlement provides a deed of recognition over Crown-owned parts within the Raukawa area of interest, part of Lake \u014Ch\u0101kuri, the Waihou River, and the Arahiwi Scenic Reserve. In respect of place name changes, \u014Cm\u0101hine Stream will become M\u0101hina-a-rangi Stream, a currently unnamed historic site at the confluence of \u014Cm\u0101hine Stream with Wai\u014Dmau Stream will be called Whatawhata, and a currently unnamed historic site at the source of \u014Cm\u0101hine Stream will be called Whenua \u0101-kura. Those will be the place name changes under this deed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003EKotahi te hinengaro, kotahi te wairua, kotahi te ng\u0101kau, ar\u0101, ka tipu ai te m\u0101ramatanga, ka rere ai te t\u016Bmanako, ka pu\u0101wai ai te aroha. With one mind, one spirit, one heart, understanding grows, hope soars, and love blossoms. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u002207be8c0a3a884297a16b94b963197e7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207be8c0a3a884297a16b94b963197e7d\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Ng\u0101 manuhiri n\u014D Ng\u0101ti Raukawa, nau mai, piki mai ki t\u014D m\u0101tou Whare k\u014Drero, nau mai ki roto i te kaupapa o te r\u0101 nei.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E[To the visitors from Ng\u0101ti Raukawa, welcome to our speaking House; ascend it and participate in the matter for today.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EIt is good to see the Raukawa Claims Settlement Bill come to the House. I understand how much time and effort goes into getting to this milestone, and I congratulate the people of Raukawa on their commitment to their people, on their patience, on their determination, and on their diligence in getting to this place. I also recognise and grieve the passing of Raukawa kaum\u0101tua and kuia who have contributed to this settlement. As a member of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, I promise we will work hard and respectfully to pass this legislation through as quickly and as efficiently as possible. It is always exciting to see another claim nearing settlement. Since we have been in Government since 2008 we have watched 40 such claims, and there are more in the pipeline. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI come from the South Island. I come from the area, the rohe, of Ng\u0101i Tahu, and so I have seen with my own eyes the value of these settlements. I have seen the benefits to the people of Ng\u0101i Tahu and I have seen the benefits to the rest of us who live in the South Island. It has been particularly relevant recently, after our earthquakes. It has been relevant because Ng\u0101i Tahu are jointly responsible with local government and central government as partners to rebuild Christchurch and Canterbury. They have a strong leadership role in cultural, social, and business recovery. Ng\u0101i Tahu took a very important part in the emergency response immediately after the earthquakes, and that immediate response has continued. Now they have a particularly significant role in the development and the property sector of the rebuild of our city and our province. I believe that without this settlement, which goes back to the 1990s, they would not have the capacity and they would not be in the position to contribute so importantly to this role in our time of need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EIt is right that the grievances of Raukawa have been recognised in this bill, it is right that the Crown has apologised for breaching the Treaty of Waitangi and its principles, and it is right that the Crown has apologised for its actions during the New Zealand Wars of the 1860s. It is also right that the Crown apologises for causing suffering, for causing hardship, and for the demoralisation of the Raukawa people. Looking forward, it is also right that the Crown recognises the mana and the rangatiratanga of Raukawa, and looks forward to building an enduring relationship of mutual trust and cooperation, based on the respect of the Treaty of Waitangi and its principles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI and all members of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee\u2014and you have heard them speaking today\u2014look forward to working with the Raukawa people and officials from the Office of Treaty Settlements to deliver this claims settlement legislation to the best of our ability, and we will try not to take too long either. N\u014D reira, e ng\u0101 rangatira n\u014D Raukawa, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E[So to you the chiefs from Raukawa, greetings, salutations, and acknowledgments to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u002270292c29c31845a2bc2c82b6ac3434ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270292c29c31845a2bc2c82b6ac3434ac\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E E ng\u0101 mana, e ng\u0101 reo, e ng\u0101 wh\u0101nau o Raukawa. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. It is my pleasure as a member of the Labour M\u0101ori caucus to stand here to tautoko this first reading of the Raukawa Claims Settlement Bill, which is a translation of this document, the deed of settlement, that Raukawa have entered into with the Crown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EIn acknowledging this deed of settlement, I want to acknowledge that from April 1988 the Raukawa Trust Board has been formally recognised as an iwi authority. That is incredibly important in this process, as we all know, because that entity was then recognised by the Crown as Raukawa\u2019s mandated entity to enter into what is a Treaty settlement process for Raukawa. Today is an end of that journey, in some respects, for Raukawa, and so I acknowledge that. I would also like to acknowledge the deed of settlement, which had 94.42 percent of iwi support and also 93.19 percent approval for the Raukawa Trust Board to be the governance entity to receive these funds, to receive this redress, and to work on behalf of the people of Raukawa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo what does this piece of legislation say? I am going to take a brief call, as I am no longer a member of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. It is a pleasure for me to be involved in these settlement processes\u2014our true reconciliation process as a country. But it is always very interesting to look at what is constituted within this particular piece of legislation. Firstly, the Crown apologises for, basically, two things. One is the conflicts of the 1860s, which did result in loss of life for Raukawa. I want to highlight the \u014Cr\u0101kau battle. In fact, it was within that \u014Cr\u0101kau battle that Raukawa chief Te Paerata was killed. That is obviously significant for the wh\u0101nau of Raukawa. What I want to acknowledge about that particular battle was that the wh\u0101nau of Raukawa were outnumbered, basically, seven to one. They held the fort, but eventually there was loss of life of up to 160 members of the Raukawa wh\u0101nau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo these settlements are actually very serious. We had our own land wars, our own civil war, here in Aotearoa New Zealand. I think we always must remember that these pieces of settlement legislation are a formal acknowledgment of the loss of life in our own country through our own land wars, and we must never forget those. The other highlight for me, always, is about the confiscation of lands, because, essentially, that is what this compensation package is always trying to redress\u2014loss of life and loss of land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ERaukawa had 1 million acres of land, and how much of that land was taken from them? Well, 923,358 acres. So today, essentially, Raukawa has 7 percent of the land that they had before colonisation. When we look at these settlements\u2014and Denise Roche, my Green colleague, touched on the generosity of Raukawa\u2014we always must remember that the settlement that we have come to today is because of Raukawa. The settlement that Raukawa have entered into is a fraction of what was taken from them. That is what we always should record here in the House, through the Treaty settlement process: that ethic of generosity that all iwi have engaged in in allowing us to come to a place of peace, and also allowing Raukawa to come to a place of getting some of those assets back, working those assets on behalf of their 30,000 members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe other part of this piece of legislation I want to highlight is the cultural redress. My colleague Claudette Hauiti has outlined some of those. But I particularly want to focus on the place name changes. For me, this is about the whakapapa of Raukawa. This is about the punga, the footprints, that Raukawa will have going into the future. \u014Cm\u0101hine Stream is going to be called M\u0101hina-a-rangi Stream. Obviously, that is incredibly significant for Raukawa. So for ever more that stream will be named after Raukawa t\u016Bpuna. That is incredibly important. There are also two unnamed historical sites. The confluence of M\u0101hina-a-rangi Stream with the Wai\u014Dmou Stream is to be called Whatawhata. Again, that is incredibly significant for Raukawa wh\u0101nau. Another unnamed historical site at the source of M\u0101hina-a-rangi Stream is to be called Whenua \u0101-kura. So what is in a name, wh\u0101nau? A lot. These Treaty settlement processes provide redress, but they also provide, I believe, a pathway for the way forward. We guarantee that Raukawa will for ever on their whenua have the place names that signify the whakapapa of that whenua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EFinally, I just want to talk a little bit again about the financial and commercial redress\u2014$52 million, essentially, for 923,358 acres of land. I have not done the maths today about what an acre is worth within the whenua of Raukawa, but what I want to always record on the record is my position as part of the Labour caucus in being incredibly\u2014how can I say it? There is a lot of gratitude that we have for M\u0101ori, for our iwi in this settlement process, for allowing us as a nation to move forward positively. All I can say as a member of Parliament is thank you to Raukawa. Thank you for your ability to enable us as a nation to move on. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee0f5f8201e744fb915c41ff04a8dd8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee0f5f8201e744fb915c41ff04a8dd8a\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te Mana Whakaw\u0101. T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Whare. Kia ora, e ng\u0101 mihi i te iwi Raukawa, ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. I will take a short call as I had not been expecting to speak in this first reading debate of the Raukawa Claims Settlement Bill, but I want to extend greetings from the Government senior whip and member for Taup\u014D, Louise Upston, who is a Government member of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, and who very much regrets that she is unable to be here today to support this very important measure. As a fellow Waikato member of Parliament, representing the western side of Kirikiriroa, home of the stadium at which a magnificent, back-to-back Super 15 title was secured by the mighty Chiefs last Saturday\u2014and my colleagues would have been so disappointed if I had not got that in somewhere\u2014I do want to acknowledge, in all seriousness, the losses that Raukawa suffered in the 19th century. In particular, I acknowledge the goodwill of the iwi in their negotiations of this deed of settlement. They were not only losses of the 19th century but, obviously, losses subsequently, to the present time. Kia ora and thank you all for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ELike my colleague the Hon Tau Henare, I also pay tribute to the outstanding work of the Hon Christopher Finlayson, Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations, who will close this first reading debate shortly. I acknowledge his dedication and boundless energy in meeting the demands of this major portfolio. He is playing a major role in helping this nation to resolve deep and longstanding injustices, and I admire his work immensely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EMy colleagues on all sides of this House have covered the major provisions of this bill, and obviously the Minister will touch on more of them shortly. So I want to thank all members for their constructive contributions and for the unanimous support of members for this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThis is an important and a historic day for Raukawa and for our country: me whakanuia e t\u0101tou [we should celebrate it]. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u002204ce096b509e4c0bbf8c860b7cf2c4ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204ce096b509e4c0bbf8c860b7cf2c4ab\u0022\u003EMEKA WHAITIRI (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E He reo pari k\u0101rangaranga i te Whare nei, karanga mai, karanga mai, karanga mai. Karanga mai e ng\u0101 uri mokopuna o te tipuna m\u0101reikura o Heretaunga a M\u0101hinarangi o te waka tapu o T\u0101kitimu. Ka moe ia i a T\u016Brongo o te waka Tainui, ar\u0101, ka puta n\u0101 te kakara o te r\u0101kau rongonui, \u0101, ko Raukawa. Ka t\u016B mai r\u0101 koutou i te Whare P\u0101remata nei. He p\u0101nui tuatahi o te whakataunga o ng\u0101 whenua raupatu o ng\u0101 ker\u0113me o te Tiriti o Waitangi. Mihi mai, mihi mai, mihi mai r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E[A resounding voice calls this House, calling, calling, and calling. Call the grandchildren and descendants of the noble ancestress M\u0101hinarangi of Hastings and of the sacred canoe of T\u0101kitimu. She married T\u016Brongo of the Tainui canoe, and Raukawa was born as a consequence of the aromatic scent from the famous tree. You stand in this House of Parliament here. It is the first reading of the settlement of confiscated lands of the Treaty of Waitangi claims. Extend your greetings, salutations, and acknowledgements.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EIt is fitting that I take my first call in this House of Representatives to stand in solidarity with my M\u0101ori Labour caucus members and the House as a whole in supporting this bill, the Raukawa Claims Settlement Bill, to the House. It is fitting because I am a descendant of the Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu ki Wairarapa people, who were, through the actions of the Crown, dispossessed of Lake Wairarapa and relocated to Pouakani. By standing in support, I acknowledge the remaining mamae that this action causes the people of Raukawa. N\u014D reira e te wh\u0101nau, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EBut today is a day of celebration. It is a day of acknowledging the hard mahi of the people of Raukawa and the commitment to getting to this point. As a former mandated negotiator for Rongowhakaata, I can share with you my emotions, sitting where you are today for the first reading of our bill. There were mixed emotions tinged with sadness for those no longer with us and mixed emotions of excitement for what lies ahead. So from me to all of you here today, I mihi to you for getting us to this point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ETo Minister Finlayson, thank you for your support in bringing this bill to the House. It is not an easy journey to get here, but I know the efforts of all\u2014be it the negotiators, be it the officials\u2014to get us to this point, and I congratulate you all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EMembers on this side of the House have touched on the details of this bill, but for me, and as I said in my maiden speech last night, it is about economic development in a post-settlement era. You, the people of Raukawa, have not been given all the tools, but you have been given a good start to aspire to those aspirations and those goals on behalf of your hap\u016B and your wh\u0101nau and your iwi. So I commend you again for your commitment and your undertaking to bring this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI am just sitting here, thinking about how quiet this House becomes when we are dealing with Treaty bills. Maybe the House can take a lesson from that\u2014when it joins together in unification on settling Treaty settlements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI just want to touch on the particular parts that I am interested in, around the mechanisms that will unleash and unlock your economic potential, particularly around your overlay classifications, your statutory acknowledgments, and your deeds of recognition. Can I commend and support the iwi\u2019s desire to not only protect your taonga, in terms of waterways and whenua, but also unlock their economic potential, should you so wish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EThere is a role for the Government to support the people of Raukawa. The burden of addressing what has befallen your people should not rest on your shoulders alone. Settlements are merely to help replace in some small part what has been taken away from you, as people, many, many years ago. I know that with the support of my Labour Party colleagues, particularly the M\u0101ori members, we are committed to supporting the aims and aspirations of wh\u0101nau, of hap\u016B, and of iwi. I have not much more to add, but it has been an absolute honour to stand and commend this bill to the House. Can I say in closing, n\u014D reira, i r\u014D i te whakatauk\u012B nei a Ng\u0101tai Huata, ka ora te wahine puapua, ka ora te wh\u0101nau pu\u0101wai, ka ora te hap\u016B puaw\u0101nanga, ka ora te iwi p\u016Brotu n\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E[So in this aphorism from Ng\u0101tai Huata, it says if the woman is cherished then the blossoming family, the satellite subtribe, and the beautiful tribe will do well, greetings, salutations and acknowledgements to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u00226970d9f962e1419d8b1d1964c47acfa7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226970d9f962e1419d8b1d1964c47acfa7\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E I too extend a very warm welcome to the representatives of Raukawa who have joined us today for this occasion. They may be wondering why I, as the Minister in charge of the Raukawa Claims Settlement Bill, was not here for the first speech. The reason for that is quite simple. Mrs Turia is the local MP, and she asked me whether she could give the first speech, because of her fondness for Ng\u0101ti Raukawa. When Mrs Turia asks someone to do something, you do it, and the reason, quite apart from the fact that she is the local MP, I have to confess, is that she is my favourite politician\u2014utterly principled and a very decent woman. In this place folk say that it takes a lot of courage to stand up to one\u2019s enemies. Well, it takes a lot more courage to stand up to one\u2019s friends. That is what Mrs Turia did 10 years ago, and she won. I just wish that she would forget about retirement and decide to follow Mrs Thatcher\u2019s dictum to go on and on and on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ESo that is why she gave the first speech. But I acknowledge that it takes skill and courage to reach a settlement. The Raukawa negotiating team has navigated this very tricky river with pragmatism, with leadership, and with diligence. It is because of these dedicated people that we are here today, and I certainly want to pay tribute to them. I acknowledge past and present negotiators Chris McKenzie, Vanessa Eparaima, Nigel Te Hiko, and Patricia Cowley. I think Stephanie O\u2019Sullivan, David Bennett has just said to me, is not here today but she is watching it on television, and I wish her all the very best. She has done great work for Ng\u0101ti Raukawa. I first met her when we were still in Opposition in about 2006, with Chris in Hamilton. I know how much she means to the iwi and how much the iwi means to her. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EBut I particularly want to say a few words about George Rangit\u016Btia, who has passed away. He championed Raukawa with wisdom and with humility and leadership. I have many memories of George. George, the quiet leader. George, who just settled things down at that airing of grievances in Tokoroa some years ago. George, the very kind host, who picked me up at the top of the Kaimais one beautiful summer\u2019s morning in January, in the bus. With members of Raukawa, we drove around the rohe, and he dropped me off near Taup\u014D because I was heading off to be shown the Whanganui River by Archie Taiaroa the next day. The sad thing is that both those fine, fine people are gone. So I always remember George as a kind host on that beautiful day, and I remember George the ill, but optimistic, patient. I was very pleased to go and visit him, with Louise Upston, on the day we signed the deed of settlement. We got his signature on the deed, and that was a very special occasion for me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI want to thank Denise Roche for her very kind words. I was, frankly, in a state of shock because it is the first time a Green member has said anything nice about me. In fact, I was so shocked\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229abd723276d2460d9a8ad87b36665c4b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s been smoking!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221144128ddd2145e399ccf8fcdb0686f4\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking of enemies, I hear Mr Mallard piping up. Judith Collins was so surprised, she called me over for counselling, and wondered whether something had gone wrong. But, anyway, I want to thank Denise. I will treasure that memory. I want to acknowledge all these people because they have played their part, but I particularly want to place on record my deep respect and affection for George, and I wish his family all the very best on this special day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ERaukawa are no strangers to this House. In 2008 they were here as a party to the central North Island forests land collective settlement legislation. In 2010 they joined us here, along with their neighbours Ng\u0101ti Tuwharetoa and Te Arawa, to witness and celebrate the passage of the Ngati Tuwharetoa, Raukawa, and Te Arawa Iwi Waikato River Act 2010. The aim of that legislation, as you yourself know, Mr Assistant Speaker Tisch\u2014not that I am bringing you into the debate, but simply to say in passing that, as the MP for Waikato, you know\u2014is to restore and protect the health and well-being of the great river that flows through your electorate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E Raukawa are again our guests today, this time for the final steps to their settlement journey. It does address the longstanding historical grievances of Raukawa, which are many, as this House has said. I thank particularly Mr Tirikatene for his contribution. These matters are long overdue for settlement, because what happened up there was simply unjust. I do recall so very well the airing of grievances in Tokoroa, when the elderly lady stood up and said that she was forced out of her home because of Public Works Act takings and hydroelectric development in that part of the country, and that she resisted going until the waters were just about lapping at the entrance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThese unjust actions started in the 19th century and continued right through to the mid-20th century, and what they did resulted in the economic, social, and cultural impoverishment of Raukawa and their special relationship with their lands and waterways. These are not formulaic statements; they are statements from the heart, particularly as a result of having got to know these people and the utterly justifiable claims that they have had over such a lengthy period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThese grievances started with the wars of the 1860s in the Waikato, where the loss of life and property, through armed conflict, through occupation, and through raupatu, had such a severe impact on the well-being of Raukawa. Picking up on what Mr Tirikatene said, and coming back to that day in Tokoroa, I too recall the statements about Mangakino and the Pouakani lands, and so on, and the utter unfairness of that. It is unfairness that repeats itself year in and year out, and I know that it has been\u2014to call it an irritation minimises it\u2014a severe question for Raukawa over the years. Mind you, it was not very fair to Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu ki Wairarapa either. Of course, they were given that land because I think people thought it was worthless, and then after World War II it proved to be economically viable. What happened there was simply unfair and unbecoming of the Crown, and that is why we have these settlements. That is why, as others have said, it is important to know the history of what happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ESo the Crown acknowledges that it has breached the Treaty of Waitangi and its principles in its relationship with Raukawa. It failed to protect the mana and the rangatiratanga of Raukawa. It failed to protect Raukawa interests in customary resources and significant sites. That is why we have had a settlement. That is why this legislation was introduced. That is why I am so very keen to see the legislation move through the House as quickly as possible, so that it can be legislated for before the end of the year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ELast week I was talking to Vanessa, who was a little bit upset that perhaps it was not debated last week, and I said to watch this space. We have managed to get it done quicker than either of us thought. I am just so very pleased that now the bill will be off to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, led by the great Mr Henare and his team. They are going to be very busy because they are dealing with the Te Tau Ihu Claims Settlement Bill, where there are eight settlements, and the haka; the Ng\u0101 Punawai o Te Tokotoru Claims Settlement Bill, where there are three settlements; the Ng\u0101 Mana Whenua o T\u0101maki Makaurau Collective Redress Bill; the Maungaharuru-Tangit\u016B Hap\u016B Claims Settlement Bill; and now this bill. So I simply say to the members of that committee, and to Mr Henare in particular, that there is no time to muck around. You have got to knuckle down, get these bills through the system, and get them back to the House as quickly as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4d99ead31b4455a90631e22ad724a81\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Listening, Tau?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a1a56d96b82490eb36223dfb38349b3\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Of course he\u2019s listening, because he is an outstanding chair of the M\u0101ori\u2014the member is listening, is he not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218dff93dc06f4971b6b479491b0799f0\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Yep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc96354c4fb242fd84dd07a5cda7aa9d\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: He is an outstanding chair of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. He is a great friend and colleague, and I know that he is going to get these bills back post-haste.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EBill referred to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ebfff8849576438895bad09d095baf52\u0022\u003ESubordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cf9d0628ff734fce8ce2a172ce10cb59\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb4c5df8802d4544b7fa613fc0b0b2e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb4c5df8802d4544b7fa613fc0b0b2e3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS TREMAIN (Minister of Internal Affairs) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Leader of the House: I move, That the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2) be now read a first time. I nominate the Regulations Review Committee to consider the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThis is a routine, technical bill and it comes before the House every year. However, it is a very important bill all the same. The bill confirms or validates items of subordinate legislation that must be confirmed or validated by Parliament. This is a requirement of the empowering Acts under which the various orders or regulations have been made. The role played by the House in confirming or validating the various items and the scrutiny provided by the Regulations Review Committee provide a layer of protection in the regulation-making process. Should the House decide to withhold its approval for a particular regulation or order contained in the bill, that regulation or order will lapse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EIn its report on the 2012 bill the Regulations Review Committee acknowledged that it is not reasonable or practicable to introduce subordinate legislation bills in the first half of the calendar year. However, the committee also recommended that in order to allow time for scrutiny of the implementation of the policy, the Government look at introducing these bills earlier in the year than has been usual\u2014preferably on 1 August, or as close to that date as possible. I am happy to report that the Government has introduced this year\u2019s bill as soon as it was practicable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThis bill covers a range of regulations\u201424 orders. I will not delay the House\u2019s time in considering each of these regulations. They will be there in the regulation within the bill. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6c46e17c60e44a5a1cd88a98f4b09ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6c46e17c60e44a5a1cd88a98f4b09ac\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I do not understand why the Government is filibustering this Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2)! It is one that is relatively simple. It is an annual bill. It goes off to the Regulations Review Committee. If there are particular orders in there that the committee wants to draw the House\u2019s attention to, it will. Otherwise, there will be smooth passage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4bce571666d4333ac9d76ee9f3a7033\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4bce571666d4333ac9d76ee9f3a7033\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to take a brief call on this Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2) this morning. As previous members have stated, this is a bill that comes to the House every year. It validates and confirms subordinate legislation such as commodity levies and other orders. It comes to the Regulations Review Committee. The select committee basically writes to the Ministers and departments about the levies or the orders that are in place, to see whether they are still to be confirmed. The Ministers and departments write back and acknowledge that they should be, and then it gets reported back to the House. It is a fairly swift process but it is a very important process, because if we do not have this legislation, those orders or levies will lapse. I look forward to seeing it in the Regulations Review Committee. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u002271197189cbfa40259ecd22304762317c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271197189cbfa40259ecd22304762317c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I look forward to taking at least three 5-minute calls on this Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2). They say that making legislation is like making sausages\u2014they taste good in the end but you do not want to see them being made. Occasionally, what happens in Parliament is that lots of little bits and pieces of legislative offal get bundled up and sent to the mincer in the Regulations Review Committee. That is basically what this bill is. It is the conveyor belt for the bits and pieces that the Regulations Review Committee has got to pore over, look through the entrails of the legislative process, and make sure that the sausages we make in the next little while are fit to eat. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u00221a646b24c3564a1bb086f577f57ef9fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a646b24c3564a1bb086f577f57ef9fe\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E This will be just a very brief call like other members have taken. The Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2) is a technical bill. It is a fairly regular piece of legislation that goes through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI would simply like to take the opportunity to reflect on the fact that from the War Pensions Act 1954 the lump-sum payments and rates of pensions and allowances are validated and confirmed by this legislation, but what\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8bc105fb3374b4fb088147bf9c87c72\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Terrific.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d2abc2b98fe413580795fd01a2b5a28\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014which is a great thing, and the people who receive war pensions will be very happy about that. They will be much happier when the Government finally gets on with the job of implementing legislation following the review of the War Pensions Act that was initiated by Labour and carried out by the Law Commission. That has been a long time coming. I know that veterans up and down the country will want to see that happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI suspect that there will be a few private pilots as well who will be interested in the levies raised by the Civil Aviation Authority. The Regulations Review Committee may find that it has more public interest in that than it might have otherwise suspected. But, otherwise, like my colleagues, I am very happy to see the passage of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022 data-id=\u00228e36001dbc6d48e7a6f03a1289cc3a54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e36001dbc6d48e7a6f03a1289cc3a54\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to speak to the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2). The reason I am taking a call is due to the Commodity Levies Act aspects of this bill. We support those commodity levies, and it always concerns me when some productive sectors sometimes choose not to. These levies are absolutely critical, both for those organisations to do advocacy for their producer members and also to help organise markets and to do research. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThere is one shortfall, unfortunately, through the Commodity Levies Act and a real gap, and that is the organics sector, which does not have any call on those levies. Organics producers, who are often growing to a different management system, pay their levies because everyone should if they are producing and marketing through the various forms of marketing, from a farmers market if you are a vegetable grower, right through to the big exporters. They pay their levies, but getting research done and having control of some of the money, even proportionate to their size, does not happen. That is a real shame because there is a growing international market, and even in New Zealand we have had good growth in organics. Even in recent years when there was a bit of a downturn internationally, I think Britain was the only place with issues around the global financial crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EWe have seen great growth in organics. We think there should be a lot more. If we did have some of that money going back into research, we might not have some of the problems we are having, even with our principal co-op in this country at the moment. There are some real issues about some of our productive systems that end up biting us on the butt, as such, because of the sheer nature of how the production happens. Some of the information around some of the supplementary feeding to bovines, to cattle, suggests that some of the bacteria that are involved around botulism, for example, are enhanced through some of the material that is being fed to animals. That needs further investigation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EBut back to the productive sector\u2014[Interruption] Excuse me? [Interruption] I go back to the productive sector, in terms of the Commodity Levies Act. We want to see the organics sector grow. It is a safe, sustainable direction for New Zealand. It supports the \u201Cclean, green\u201D New Zealand brand\u2014\u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D. The organics sector and best-practice organics help that no end. I will give just a couple of figures. In 2007 the organics market in New Zealand was worth $205 million, in 2009 it was $275 million, but by 2012 that had boosted up to $350 million. That is the size of the New Zealand market. Internationally, it is absolutely massive. We have got growth between 2009 and 2012, of course, of 400 percent. Those people deserve to be getting their slice of the levies, and it is something that hopefully a future Government will ensure. If we do it through a voting system, it is unlikely to happen, because people are sick of paying extra levies. We just need to find a device that will split up the levies and that ensures that the organics sector gets some. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003ESo that is the main point. The Greens will be supporting this bill, but we want to see some changes in the future to the Commodity Levies Act. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u00226b96c57185474eac92930ef64cd6ac9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b96c57185474eac92930ef64cd6ac9e\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E That speech from Steffan Browning was a wonderful advertisement for organic chicken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI have got great pleasure in supporting the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2). I look forward to it coming before the Regulations Review Committee, where we will no doubt, as Mr Lees-Galloway said, have a significant debate about it. I also just wanted to remind Mr Cunliffe that offal is the best part of the sheep\u2014the most tasty part by a mile. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u00229c50b87bff1e439e9a5b1bda7a5ed8ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c50b87bff1e439e9a5b1bda7a5ed8ba\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First is satisfied that the content of this bill, the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2), is suitable for a subordinate legislation bill. The only matter I would flag at this stage concerns Civil Aviation Authority charges. As a private pilot myself and a member of the Canterbury Aero Club, I have been contacted by many of my fellow club members expressing concern about constant increases by the Civil Aviation Authority concerning its charges. So that is something that I will be having a close look at. But subject to that, New Zealand First will be supporting the bill\u2019s referral to the Regulations Review Committee at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u0022308fff27490a4faeb3c38f6495ad8b9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022308fff27490a4faeb3c38f6495ad8b9a\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I also stand in support of this bill, the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2). I will welcome it with open arms when it arrives at the Regulations Review Committee this year. Last year we looked at subordinate legislation bills and thought: \u201CIs there a more pragmatic way for us to pull on the levers and the mechanics of the Parliament to ensure that what needs to be done here can be achieved?\u201D. We have brought this forward a little bit. It is a necessary piece of legislation. I am happy to commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022357321dfe5b24fce9fb208203736d20c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022357321dfe5b24fce9fb208203736d20c\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E I support the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddaf724f6d48435eb40fa452f745c429\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddaf724f6d48435eb40fa452f745c429\u0022\u003EDENISE ROCHE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take the second call on the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2). As discussed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260afd9750e37452bb353b1c002f5badc\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me, you said \u201Cthe second call\u201D. Is this a split call, or is this a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c91978221ee4248afa9a217dda97b00\u0022\u003EDENISE ROCHE\u003C/span\u003E: A split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f2fe712bbf14e749e56275f9fa08d99\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: A split call\u2014a 5-minute split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d1d4252194241f0b5d8b57c07c80ea5\u0022\u003EDENISE ROCHE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, sir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203ae0d3e352147a7ba2e554e84a6c460\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Labour does not intend to take its call, so the Green member can take as long as she likes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f7f737885cf4566b2dd3030467adce6\u0022\u003EDENISE ROCHE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much. As discussed, this is a reasonably straightforward bill. It is essentially a tool to ensure that regulations contained in the primary Acts are confirmed and validated. A good part of this bill has a focus on issues to do with regulations that have levies in them. It refers to the Biosecurity Act 1993, the Civil Aviation Act 1990, the Commodity Levies Act 1990, the Customs and Excise Act 1996\u2014with regulations that prohibit the importation of 10 kilograms or more of trout or trout products for a further 3 years and increases the duties on tobacco and alcohol\u2014the Land Transport Act 1998, the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001, the Social Security Act 1964, the Road User Charges Act 2012, the War Pensions Act 1954, and, of course, the Gambling Act 2003, and that is where I will focus my comments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThis bill confirms the Gambling (Problem Gambling Levy) Regulations 2013, which is the levy that is paid by gambling operators to cover the costs of problem gambling. This levy is the amount of money that is paid by casinos, pokie-machine operators, the Lotteries Commission, and the New Zealand Racing Board to the Commissioner of Inland Revenue, and it is passed through the Inland Revenue Department to the Ministry of Health, and then to the agencies that deal with problem gambling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EIt is pretty ironic that this bill is being put to the House today when the Gambling (Gambling Harm Reduction) Amendment Bill that was brought to the House by M\u0101ori Party MP Te Ururoa Flavell is being discussed in the Committee of the whole House later today. That was a bill that really would have made some changes in terms of reducing the incidence of problem gambling. However, once it was brought back to the House it was essentially gutted of all its good bits that would have dealt with the problem-gambling issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EBut going back to this bill and the gambling levy, there is a consultative process undertaken before the levy is set. The gambling industry, pokie-machine owners, casino owners, and the lotteries all get involved and attempt to justify why they should not have to pay very much for problem gambling. Usually, they trot out the argument that in this country we spend more per capita on problem-gambling services than any other country in the world. Well, of course they want to pay less for the gambling levy, because that will increase their profits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThe levy is negotiated every 3 years and is based on a Ministry of Health strategy that deals with problem gambling. It is interesting that when this levy was being negotiated, the Ministry of Health recommended a substantial increase in the levy paid by the casino operators. The reason for this was that research by the Ministry of Health has shown that a person is more likely\u2014five times more likely, in fact\u2014to develop a problem with pokies that are located in casinos than with pokies in pubs and clubs. However, the casino industry is extremely successful in its negotiations and it has continued to pay a levy that is approximately half of what other pokie owners pay. That is an interesting fact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EAnother interesting fact about this levy is that although it is determined in order to pay for problem gambling, it does not actually pay for the results of problem gambling. So, for example, this levy does not cover the food banks that are dealing on a daily basis with people who front up because they have no money because they have spent it on the pokies. This levy does not cover the crime that is associated with problem gambling, the businesses who lose money, and the not-for-profit organisations that lose money because their staff have stolen it and spent it on the pokies. This levy does not pay for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EI guess I have made my point about this levy. We will be supporting this bill, but I did want to take the time to talk about the problem gambling levy. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac996ea7ffb34cc3b9e1762070b2d6d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac996ea7ffb34cc3b9e1762070b2d6d6\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E I support the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2). Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ea4cfdbdbfad421e867c290e459de2f7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2) be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 120\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; Independents: Dunne, Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMana 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000405\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Regulations Review Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201308061ad3effceb2f4ec792b586189148577c000406\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 1 p.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"