"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022921fe577bd5f4f1ca01658271eb2e090\u0022\u003EThursday, 24 October 2013\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d6ae4a81b0724b49b2e54f84707c3b5d\u0022\u003EThursday, 24 October 2013\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b642e4113673476499f39a96b82e39b8\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222c0ee03bcedb466a863f32911115df1c\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00223a86012afbfb422bb55e367128f19329\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a86012afbfb422bb55e367128f19329\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E When the House resumes on Tuesday, 5 November the Government intends to progress a number of bills on the Order Paper, including the Members of Parliament (Remuneration and Services) Bill. As indicated at the Business Committee last week, it is my intention during this coming adjournment to provide all parties with a draft outline for the remainder of the year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00229cb5f4484bc24fb0a722069a43be6c52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cb5f4484bc24fb0a722069a43be6c52\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Acknowledging and thanking the Leader of the House for that draft outline, has he got any indication about whether there will be any bouts of urgency in the upcoming session?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00225d7de557661548e4909ad799e7735843\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d7de557661548e4909ad799e7735843\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, a draft outline might simply be a blank calendar letting the member know the days we will be sitting here, but I do intend to give him a little more information than that. As I have previously said to the Business Committee, there is a possibility that there will be some urgency towards the end of the coming 3-week session before we go into the final couple of weeks of the year and then the very long 9-week break.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a667fb3cf5694cfda5c6da4c8a95e2b8\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227013340bb7ca4de3a0bd9c856b0c9e41\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e9cbf0ac20c9432a8e1aac1bc05ef9e5\u0022\u003EState-owned Energy Companies, Sales\u2014Progress, Costs, and Public Support\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u00224186d4b0ad4b43208028f6fa5d55897f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224186d4b0ad4b43208028f6fa5d55897f\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he consider that the Government\u2019s Meridian Energy sale was a failure, given that it attracted only 62,000 retail buyers, which is only a quarter of the 250,000 forecast?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022369e960635564d7aa66a4ecb1b2a2805\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022369e960635564d7aa66a4ecb1b2a2805\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Associate Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Finance: No, I do not agree with that. The Meridian Energy float is, in fact, by value the largest retail investment in an internal public offering in New Zealand\u2019s history. The 62,000 shareholders mean that Meridian Energy will have the third-largest share register of all the companies on the NZX when it lists next week. The share float will provide $1.9 billion in cash for the Government, which we can invest in other public assets without having to borrow. It will be 86.5 percent New Zealand - owned when it lists, comfortably meeting the Government\u2019s target of 85 percent local ownership. And, finally, the 250,000 figure that the member quotes was not a forecast. Treasury thought it might have to cater for up to that figure for planning purposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203b0d55dad17440fa6bd4f27800fa4f6\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Will he now accept that his asset sales programme has failed to achieve his goal of widespread public ownership, when only 1 percent of New Zealanders bought into Meridian Energy and the other 99 percent of New Zealanders did not, because they are finding it hard enough to pay the power bill let alone buy a power company?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7c02ff7c55e47acae62b62c3a8e0a9f\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: No, and I do find it rather unsavoury when a politician who has been doing his best to sabotage a float comes down here and complains about the number of shareholders who participated in a float. He should look at himself\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1dd18600fd647e099269c46aa0c3126\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That answer now is long enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219626cb888ba490d89cf17d924d3d9fd\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Will he now accept that his asset sales programme has failed to achieve his goal of keeping costs under $120 million for all of the privatisations, when in fact the cost to the taxpayer for just the first two privatisations is now well over $250 million?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224765d55581e045868524026782803bcf\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I doubt the veracity of the member\u2019s comment, but can I tell him this: this Government and New Zealand taxpayers have benefited from these floats\u2014so far, to $3.6 billion\u2014and if the member thinks it is that bad, why does he not just go out there and promise to buy them back and borrow the money offshore, or just print the money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf1cdca4852e4d3a8e5333ad9264c76f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a3cb0a72acf4b948ed549850bb59406\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Will he now accept that his asset sales programme has failed to achieve his goal of raising $5 billion to $7 billion, given that it is now very clear that it will not even get near the bottom of the $5 billion to $7 billion band?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8525339e5334ae58154b6b0d854e4a3\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: No, and here we have a member once again, for his own political gain, trying to cost New Zealand taxpayers money by talking down the value of these assets, as he has done the whole the way through. Again, there is something unsavoury when a Government is elected on a policy programme and an individual sets out to economically sabotage it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa7d230f23ee49e1b92eff9f3dc7b08c\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Will he now accept that his asset sales programme has failed to convince New Zealanders that privatisation is a good idea, given that the vast majority\u201499 percent\u2014did not buy shares in Meridian Energy, New Zealanders have consistently opposed the sales in every published opinion poll, and New Zealanders signed the petition in record numbers for a referendum on asset sales?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca212ea994f34bc883fb2371a0669a00\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: No, and that is because the New Zealand public is cleverer than Mr Norman, because they understand that the Government makes choices\u2014it has to make choices on their behalf. They do not want to borrow money, they do not want mad printing money; they want to know that the Government is running the economy well. The sad thing that sticks in that member\u2019s craw is that this Government was elected on this policy at the last election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a28fba00c8b46e68b560ea86d25c65b\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Who chose to go ahead with the decision to sell the shares in Meridian Energy, in spite of all the problems of going ahead\u2014was it the Minister of Finance or was it the Green Party? Who was responsible for the decision to go ahead with the sale?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6ac9ea2b65b4278ad2350b7349eecab\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The Government makes its decisions. It is quite patently obvious that the Green Party is not responsible, full stop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9b49fb4cd484b259d9b4b5dab048016\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Given that it was the Government\u2019s decision to go ahead with the sale, in very unfavourable circumstances with very poor outcomes, will the Minister of Finance take responsibility for the abysmal outcome, where only 62,000 people bought into the company, or about 1 percent of New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eff96de75c15433db4067c1561571c93\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Dear oh dear. No. The reality is simply this: it is the most successful retail initial public offering by value in New Zealand\u2019s history. We have 62,000 retail shareholders, and if the member wants to look for anybody who wants to know why there were not more shareholders, he needs to look in the mirror at his crazy 1970s-style, socialist, communist central power policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb7f25bf937f4cf7ae7f8839ad43be73\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Does he really think it is credible to blame everyone else for the failure of his asset sales programme, rather than taking responsibility for it himself\u2014I thought individual responsibility was one of the premises of the National Party\u2014and does he really want to blame it on the Green and Labour parties for presenting a popular and credible plan that would reduce power prices, given that only 1,700 potential investors pulled out of Mighty River Power after NZ Power was announced anyway?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fb6cb5a9b9e45f4816cb264f185d15d\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: It is quite patently obvious that the Greens believe in fairy tales. Their politics around economics are absolutely hopeless. This float has been successful. The Government has raised $3.6 billion. If the member is not just politicking like his friend on the convention centre, he should pop out and say that he would buy it back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a578f38e524e43bd8a9ce1eabb98de4b\u0022\u003EState-owned Energy Companies, Sales\u2014Minister\u2019s Statements, Revenue, and Public Support\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8b55f2c266d4aa09533ab3db40d7218\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8b55f2c266d4aa09533ab3db40d7218\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all his statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u00220801e30065a54af29ed82063180b7dd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220801e30065a54af29ed82063180b7dd3\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Associate Minister of Finance) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Finance: Yes. In particular, I stand by my statement of last evening that the Labour Opposition has no credibility in criticising the share offer programme, because it has had the opportunity for months to say it will go and borrow $2 billion from foreign bankers to buy these assets back, and as far as I know, it has not promised it, the Greens have not promised it, and New Zealand First has not promised it. It is all crocodile tears, hand wringing, and politicking from the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022260b859d93c14ec0804e8b8e67c4bbf4\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Which of these statements made by him in the last 24 hours regarding the Meridian Energy float are correct: that it was \u201Ca success\u201D, that it \u201Cmet our objectives\u201D and was \u201Ca pretty good outcome\u201D, or that the Meridian Energy float was \u201Csabotage\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299bfed9e5ac94d749b69cbdb6a7a3f75\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: If the member had listened to the answer to the primary question for question No. 1, he would have heard we listed all the ways in which the float has been a success\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228946d78ede1f4a7a8b22103cc55b6a80\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I listed a series of quotes and asked the Minister which ones were correct. That was the simplicity of the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e410c45e58bb4fa6aaad641a39c457d6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate the simplicity of the question. I think the member is trying to address the question. If we give him some time, we might well get the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e07521a9cffc46e08205589709667f31\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, it has been a success for all the reasons outlined, in answer to parts of his question. But in terms of the sabotage issue, the reality is that if Labour and the Greens were being responsible, more people would have felt confident about buying shares in Meridian Energy and also Mighty River Power. To that degree, Labour and the Greens have been sabotaging the public share offers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022468428d8ff5d40d99db67a6e3c442e19\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Simple question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad622965561f4b3a951364a0ecb6dac6\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: It would have to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258fc2352689c4a259158f1299f87d5c4\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Especially for you, Gerry. Given that answer, how can he claim that the float of Meridian Energy was \u201Ca success\u201D but at the same time \u201Cit was sabotaged\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271cc59cafae341ce95a1936a662615c3\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I just said. I will try it again a little slower for the member. It was a success because of the amount of money raised, the 62,000 shareholders, the 86.5 percent New Zealand ownership, and the fact that it is, by value, the largest retail investment in an initial public offering in New Zealand\u2019s history. Where it could have been more successful, if the Greens and Labour had not been deliberately scaremongering, is to have even more shareholders who wanted to invest for the first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226214792f4f4e44e9976ce75d0491ede6\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Given that he forecast repeatedly that $5 billion to $7 billion would be raised from asset sales and given that Solid Energy is no longer fit for sale, the Government got $110 million less from Mighty River Power than planned, and the Government is more than $1 billion short on what was forecast for the Meridian Energy sale, how exactly will his Government make up that shortfall?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd333b8529914b5b8cdaf77bdd931b13\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister of Finance has been saying for some time that it will be at the lower end of the $5 billion to $7 billion range, because Solid Energy is not available for sale. It just goes to show how much these valuations can move over time. The good news for investors and the good news for New Zealanders is that as these assets are listed on the New Zealand Exchange, they will be valued on a daily basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ab042ce93ac4de9819ed1bfc8e97560\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question again was exactly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218ed252b26be4d728afcadc0d7a36669\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I heard the question, and the problem is that if the member wants a specific answer, that is the supplementary question he should ask. Has the member got a further supplementary question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bac0acd9f4f24aa8aab5fbbb70da732d\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the polls consistently show that an overwhelming majority of the public are opposed to asset sales and only 14 percent of New Zealanders were even interested in purchasing Meridian Energy shares, why did he ignore the clear market signals and proceed with the Meridian Energy float, with the upshot being that only 1 percent of the population at best, given that a large number are institutions and trusts\u2014not mum and dad Kiwis\u2014purchased shares?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022483271bafc8d481da94f58150251a846\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I think I have answered that question in primary question No. 1, from Mr Norman, but I am happy to repeat it for the member because he obviously did not hear it. It is pretty straightforward. In terms of the very first part of his question, in terms of the popularity or otherwise of the share offer programme, the reality is the New Zealand public has looked at the Government\u2019s economic programme as a whole. They think it makes sense, and that is why they elected this Government again in 2011 with all of that programme laid out. This programme has raised $3.6 billion so far. If the member had any courage, he would say that he would buy the shares back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022026268eaf90c417cbfa0d3cb12f7bf06\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Given that 99 percent of Kiwis did not buy Meridian Energy shares, is his Government now truly the Government for the 1 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220ae210d373a40cf927469218bd7d5a0\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: With the greatest respect to the member, he must be able to do better than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022702517236c464f228f14f5dc8d77f484\u0022\u003EState-owned Energy Companies, Sales\u2014Progress and Purpose\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb2dfd19d56246aa9ff1275cb264a290\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb2dfd19d56246aa9ff1275cb264a290\u0022\u003EPAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent progress has the Government made in its share offer programme\u2014and particularly in generating money for investing in new public assets without having to borrow from overseas lenders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4f9743fd4df4f66885f737d1e60c5ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4f9743fd4df4f66885f737d1e60c5ed\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Associate Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Finance: I thank the member for that question. The Government is making very good progress with its share offer programme, which we, of course, put to voters at the last election. Last night we confirmed the sale of 49 percent of Meridian Energy, which will raise around $1.9 billion in two instalments. Based on the $1.50 a share issue price, this is the largest retail investment in an initial public offering in New Zealand\u2019s history. With 86.5 percent of the shares owned by New Zealanders when Meridian lists on the New Zealand Exchange next Tuesday, this comfortably meets the Government\u2019s goal of achieving 85 percent to 90 percent New Zealand ownership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210291a35e829416db88b50e05292a123\u0022\u003EPaul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: How many New Zealanders have invested in Meridian Energy and how does this compare with the share registers of other New Zealand listed companies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211ca1ee7ad9d4645981c9d252c964250\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Some 62,000 investors will receive shares in Meridian Energy. This means Meridian will have the third largest share register on the NZX, behind Mighty River Power and Contact Energy. Overall, 95 percent of retail investor applications for Meridian shares will receive at least 90 percent of the shares they have applied for. Meridian attracted a different mix of investors than we saw with Mighty River Power earlier this year. Demand was strong and broad-based, but overall we saw retail investors bidding for slightly larger parcels of shares. Having said that, around half of all Meridian investors applied for 5,000 shares or fewer, so there was strong demand from smaller investors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b96dea2f5f748198c4fe06ac102549d\u0022\u003EPaul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of taxpayers how will the Government use the $1.9 billion in proceeds from the Meridian Energy share offer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f0ecd136fdc43958dafe0b6712761b7\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The approximately $1.9 billion raised from Meridian Energy\u2019s two instalment payments will be allocated to the Future Investment Fund. On behalf of all New Zealanders, that money will be invested in the Government\u2019s public infrastructure programme, which, in turn, supports thousands of jobs across New Zealand. Combined with the $1.7 billion in proceeds from the Mighty River Power offer earlier this year, there will now be almost $3.6 billion over the two floats that the Government does not have to borrow to reinvest in new priority public assets. These include modern schools, new hospitals, irrigation projects, supporting KiwiRail, and helping to rebuild Christchurch. We can do all of those things without having to borrow this money from overseas lenders. And the question is: what would the Opposition do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228769a6f17d7943a4bc04bff6ec4bce73\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: You borrow from overseas investors every week. You borrow all the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f4432cec30b43eab092917f5c1eaa73\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve borrowed more money than anybody else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022458ed814e85d42ca88eb652b24b61f65\u0022\u003EPaul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: What alternative approaches to the share offer programme are available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235afd92e3c5e4a7daaafd38e90cc2cd8\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: There are three main alternatives. One would, of course, be to not invest in new schools, hospitals, or ultra-fast broadband. I doubt that anybody is suggesting that. Another option would be to borrow the billions of dollars from overseas lenders to invest in these new public assets. Some in this House appear to favour that borrowing option, including the Hon Annette King\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3152b0e7bc547f3842e4099f4765171\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b041ad78f7a42f8b6517ba0abb802a1\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and Grant Robertson. A third option is promising to buy back the minority shareholdings in these energy companies and borrowing billions of dollars from overseas banks to pay for them. But nobody in this House is proposing to do that, so I can assume only that the opponents of this share programme do not have the courage of their convictions, but I have to say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5225ae08dbc4a668a60f80d4b1f08e0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That answer will not help the order of this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b46b53e9ae74e33b5fbd958d44a47dd\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. As recently as the last day or so, someone else who has used that phrase has been challenged to withdraw and apologise for it. Mr Joyce made a direct link between members in this House and a lack of courage. That is out of order and he should have to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225af6bad55f8b40c3817d6822eb536349\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member has taken offence, that is a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022337686733134499085bba683506b45c2\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe52f097aa714b45ae3d1df4109e6439\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has taken offence, and on that basis I ask the Minister to stand, withdraw, and apologise to Mr Robertson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af07834be19d472b8dfc6c301fc6489e\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise to Mr Robertson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225eb723b6c45c44c1bbd492de33a30196\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I also took offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280643d78f01d47da878540edc5064e9c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is\u2014[Interruption] Order! That is not strictly a point of order. The offence has been apologised for. Any member who was so\u2014[Interruption] Order! Any member who was so offended by the remark can now accept the apology that has been given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d672ac4075394dfa87c6eb436a6cc5c8\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The apology was a qualified one to only Mr Robertson and not to the House. It pays to listen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b75e0e5f62f24fbe82fcbc30ad0faa02\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member can stand and withdraw the last part of that remark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b903f9383b1345bf9fdf773d55b470f5\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw\u2014to you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022768cc93bddec4176a6e5b8a533c4706a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Now, on the basis that Mr Mallard\u2014[Interruption] Order! On the basis that\u2014[Interruption] Order! On the basis that potentially there were other members who were offended by the Minister\u2019s remark, I am now going to ask him to stand, withdraw, and apologise without addressing the offence to anybody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022094d3d2b2a21455b90e3f9dc2c4c9742\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, is that to Mr Mallard, or to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ea601e17119428aa727869f1622b094\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Would the Minister just stand, withdraw, and apologise for the remark he made in an earlier answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022567064fde9594fd7b40acefc32b53b95\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002248e04584004846069d2e34d5eccf1758\u0022\u003EHousing, Affordable\u2014Mortgages and Availability\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00229601f32670f94c4c9bea2068f88abcda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229601f32670f94c4c9bea2068f88abcda\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports, if any, has the Reserve Bank had from trading banks on the effect of loan-to-value ratio lending limits on housing construction?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae5290c2d738404ead0da57cd46e6a1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae5290c2d738404ead0da57cd46e6a1c\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Associate Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Finance: The Reserve Bank advises that it has not received reports from trading banks on the effect of loan-to-value ratio restrictions on housing construction. I would not expect to see such reports, given the Reserve Bank\u2019s independence on macro-prudential policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c047644264ab463daa66e61bb942f411\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: What impact does he expect loan-to-value ratios to have on the Government\u2019s housing policy, which claims to be focused on trying to increase supply, if, as Warwick Quinn of the Registered Master Builders Federation predicts, they result in 3,000 fewer new homes being built each year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022337b09df2304485c827de158fe4c1857\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: That is a difficult statement to reconcile with a statement made by the Registered Master Builders Federation to the Minister\u2019s colleague the Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills and Employment at around the same time, when it said it was worried there would not be enough apprentices and enough people with skills to actually build all the houses. So I think we need to rationalise where we are at here: either there are not enough people around to build all the houses or there are not enough houses going to be built. I am sure we will resolve that situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0c24bbe4f0f466d97523ca8640405d0\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Can he explain why the Prime Minister said \u201CI can\u2019t for the life of me see how it will affect home building.\u201D at the same time as the Reserve Bank is currently researching the impact on new builds of loan-to-value ratios, or should we give this statement the same credibility as the Prime Minister\u2019s earlier promise to protect first-home buyers from the effects of loan-to-value ratios?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e5cfd60f8564b8899e8a6de6c6a88d8\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: If housing prices are rising, that generally leads to increased supply over time. The issue is whether that supply is happening fast enough. Given that prices have been rising, it is entirely reasonable to say that more construction will occur. If the member is saying that will not happen, then he really does need to go back to Economics 101 and have a chat to the economics lecturers at the time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caf1f7e0c1b644e4baea6729c34e08d3\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that Treasury rubbished the Government\u2019s changes to KiwiSaver and the Welcome Home Loan scheme, saying they were questionable spending and would undermine housing affordability, and will he now concede the changes were a desperate attempt to distract attention from the damage that his housing policy is doing to first-home buyers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220625f979248849bba2b96c557f38be71\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: No, and it is interesting to note that the member himself said the policies were not big enough. So on the one hand he is citing Treasury criticism, and on the other hand he is saying we should do more, which, actually, is not inconsistent with his previous statements, which have been both in favour and against loan-to-value ratios. The answer to this problem is to have a larger supply of housing. That is why the Minister has done the special housing areas and announced 6,000 more houses to be built in Auckland, which, of course, the Opposition opposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1dfd298c4eb456c8f35ccb8a670a973\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Will he admit that the Government\u2019s housing policy is in tatters, with Treasury criticising recent policy announcements as ineffective and questionable and recommending that the Government consider policies like a capital gains tax and excluding offshore speculators\u2014policies that he refuses to consider?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0999f771f4946b591a39ac8b24fab94\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The member might want to read Treasury\u2019s recommendations on capital gains taxes, because Treasury is keen to have it on all houses. The trouble with having it on all houses, of course, is that that affects everybody\u2019s family home. But that is what Treasury is seeking. If the member wants to line up with that policy, I would welcome his announcement in that regard, and I think everybody on this side of the House would. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272b2e744b02b461580dde99feafe3fac\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Everybody else is wrong!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267811c3ffb7b4ac6a0fd13f40530a5f1\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: But in terms of capital gains taxes, Mr Twyford, the situation in Australia is that they already have one like the Labour Party policy, and their prices are going up even faster. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022605c143dd3534066b8ad26a9bb29a1ce\u0022\u003ESexual Abuse\u2014Measures to Address\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022b68c117adce442d3bcbebb22d86090be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b68c117adce442d3bcbebb22d86090be\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: What recent initiatives has the Government supported to provide better support to those affected by sexual violence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00222d2ade7b028143f78668ea94138680ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d2ade7b028143f78668ea94138680ba\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E On Tuesday I was pleased to speak in Auckland at the launch of a new web portal called The Harbour, a resource for those who have been affected by sexual abuse. The Harbour will allow people to access vital information from a single, trusted source so they do not have to go to multiple different sites to access the information they need. There is a myriad of information on the internet and, unfortunately, much of it is not correct. The Harbour includes information on how to access help if you are a victim of sexual abuse, as well as information about how to assist if you fear someone may be being abused. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e8ab4ffc7b1428f853ee5250589b15a\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: How is The Harbour a good example of a whole-of-sector approach to addressing sexual abuse?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250179ff56cc4447d87a0331730511725\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The Harbour is a result of excellent collaboration between the Government and NGOs. Development of The Harbour has been led by the Safe Network, and its chief executive, Jacqui Dillon, deserves a real special mention for this being her initiative and for getting everyone on board. The Safe Network is an Auckland-based organisation that provides treatment for harmful sexual behaviour alongside the Auckland Sexual Abuse Help Foundation and Rape Prevention Education. There was a range of other Government agencies contributing. The Ministry of Social Development through Family and Community Services and Child, Youth and Family, the New Zealand Police, the Department of Internal Affairs, the Department of Corrections, ACC, the Ministry of Education, the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Justice, and the Ministry of Women\u2019s Affairs all contributed in some way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022814f769549864ee2b4fac388fb70e64d\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: How does The Harbour work to help prevent sexual violence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224969f3d6fb3845f59796f67f1f70db4b\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what is a little different is that not only does The Harbour provide information for victims and their friends and family but also it acts as a resource for those who fear that they themselves may be at risk of offending. People concerned about their own behaviour can go to the \u201CI think I\u2019m causing harm\u201D page on the site to seek information about what is normal behaviour and how they can seek help if they fear they might have offended or be offending against someone. I welcome this initiative and I congratulate those who have done it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b62e6a0131fb4f33b0490bdf08098db7\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: What will the Minister do to actually fund organisations that provide services to those affected by sexual abuse, like Wellington Rape Crisis and Male Survivors of Sexual Abuse Wellington, which are currently having to consider cutting services or closing down completely?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c25e2af98be47e19cea8bf56d22c32d\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: We currently have a review under way of all of those services, and we are making very good progress. I think what happened with the Auckland helpline and the Auckland Sexual Abuse Help Foundation is actually a good example of real collaboration across agencies. As I say, we are making progress, and I think you will see that in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229e2fd98d974a4ea992056208e29ab28b\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Defence Force\u2014Impact of Attrition Rates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0f12b014eeb4dc5a01fbccd3ae4cf6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0f12b014eeb4dc5a01fbccd3ae4cf6c\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Defence: Have attrition rates in the last year, which reached 23 percent in the Navy and 24 percent in the Army, reduced the capability of the New Zealand Defence Force?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u00222911877a9aaa44418c48956709e39714\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222911877a9aaa44418c48956709e39714\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E As the Chief of Defence Force told the member at the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on 6 December 2012 and also on 22 June 2013, the New Zealand Defence Force has had no cut in capabilities. The member is also working with out-of-date statistics. The New Zealand Defence Force attrition rate today is 14 percent, which is below the historic long-run average and well below the 19 percent figure under Labour. Both army and navy attrition rates today are significantly beneath levels reached under Labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022720f1942fd19467896cb42861c1d9478\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: When the navy admits that skill and experience levels in critical trade groups have been seriously degraded\u2014their words, Minister\u2014by the significant reduction in the number of trained personnel available, why does he keep on pretending that this has not reduced the navy\u2019s capability?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f17b7e465c54e06b0825a906858742b\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Because the fact is that it has not. The navy is actually performing to all the targets that have been set for it by the Government, and it is meeting all the outputs that it is contracted to meet by other Government agencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223177668f246044bab2a8b66b115e3944\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: If the navy is meeting all of its targets, why does the navy say in its latest report that it cannot crew more than four out of six of its new naval patrol force vessels\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b4fe9d9a0f3494c9234705b1c72f736\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6cce5eab9d94cf7a090a94f52094999\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014cannot crew more than four out of six of its new naval patrol force vessels\u2014and that the HMNZS Wellington was not available for most of 2012-13 because of high attrition rates? How can that possibly not represent reduced capability?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295ebddfaf42540b0afc98ed52132fe9e\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: I question the selective light that that member is casting on that report. The fact is that when you look at the New Zealand Defence Force\u2019s annual report, it shows that the frigates were available for 126 percent of their target last year. The HMNZS Endeavour was mission-available for 116 percent of its target. The operational dive team exceeded its target hours in the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcc1a9e94857444388a78d2c113ab2eb\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You heard my question clearly. It related to the naval patrol force\u2014it said that they could not crew more than four out of six\u2014and how the HMNZS Wellington was not available most of the time. I do not want to hear about that other irrelevant stuff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022929947a1ae2d4646bcb65a498a881c12\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Well, the member may well have to. He has asked a question\u2014whilst it was relatively specific\u2014about reduced capability of the forces, particularly the navy. The Minister, the Hon Dr Jonathan Coleman, has a right to address that, and he is attempting to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df2091f6802d4c389617519a2d4774ad\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: And I would like to continue doing that. So regarding the patrol vessels, the offshore patrol vessels would have met their targets if a second sub-Antarctic patrol was undertaken, but, for totally unrelated reasons, that did not happen. The inshore patrol vessels were made available for 466 days of patrolling against a target of 455 days, so they actually exceeded their target availability to their agencies. So, once again, Phil Goff is making it up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1d56c0afecb4c83a2622c3338f8eeda\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The last part of that answer is unnecessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226657baf81a4741a9a39bfa4c578ce712\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: When the air force says explicitly that it cannot meet all expected output and readiness measures because \u201Cof a limited number of trained crews, and equipment obsolescence and deficiencies\u201D, how does this not represent reduced capability?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223f6c706e3ad47a4b28034b621928981\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: That is just incorrect. I can tell him about the air force. If you look at the helicopter forces\u2019 flying rate, it is higher than in previous years. The Airborne Surveillance and Response Forces\u2014the Orions\u2014exceeded their target with 151 percent of their target. The Boeings hit 100 percent of their target. The Hercules reported missing some targets, but still achieved over 1,300 hours of flying. The NH90s and the A109s are new capabilities brought into service, as well as the Orion and Hercules upgrades. It is just completely incorrect. The fact is that the only air force capability that has ever been cut was the Skyhawks under the Labour Government, and that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a28c47caf5824e48b56c830b354c477e\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213665c8e6a20406dbdd24b550855ecb5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! This is a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e292e52a56c343629ad3c0f6bf134311\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Since the Minister says that what I said was incorrect, I seek leave to table the quote that I quoted accurately to the House about not being able to meet all expected targets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022259978147d524a998ca11c4da7c4b7c1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What is the source of this quote?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f04e1c6a7d54d8bbd10c88777c30704\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: The source is the Minister\u2019s very own annual defence report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b39136e1120d4aaf98a5e03bde7bde1e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014[Interruption] Order! That is available to members if they so need to look it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229de8874220ec47428a0da274b4275684\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Without being improper, the issue that I think was raised with you about the tabling of documents and that you agreed to consider\u2014this is an example of that, of what Mrs King and I discussed with you\u2014is where a member\u2019s word is refuted. I was just wondering\u2014you had agreed you would consider that\u2014if, given this case, you would rule on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbc9944c4bc44076af842a3d7352a87d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: On the basis that there was a discussion\u2014and I think, on reflection, that the member Phil Goff has quoted from a document that is available, and the Minister, in the start of an answer, said: \u201CThat is not correct.\u201D\u2014I will allow the member to again put the leave for that document to be tabled. It is then over to the House what it decides to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba9a883fe23e45a58754525ae0b14ac4\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243900f56efbb49a9979105918dbfad8f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that particular annual report. Is there any objection to that? There is not. It can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a8c85531e9f4b87940adfb575918ead\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: When did the National Government ever admit publicly to the electorate that its goal was to reduce the number of regular force personnel in the New Zealand Defence Force every year that it was in Government, resulting in today\u2019s figures being 1,200 fewer people in the Defence Force than it had in 2009\u2014a cut of more than 12 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237e7b6ad48a4487180d4afbccddb0940\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: What I can tell the member is that navy numbers grew by 4.4 percent last year and army numbers grew by 1.6 percent. Air force numbers may have been flat, but the fact is that as new technology arrives\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d674730117644668c9c8fef51806e59\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not true. It\u2019s simply not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd32c8f4779e47cc983e6f18b45b39df\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014you do not need as many people to staff it. It is true. I am sorry, Phil. You are the guy who\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f7e3463216647f4933572ec46b5b1a3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226b7ff7e456c44129ae237e0b782d8a6a\u0022\u003EHousing, Affordable\u2014Government Measures and Warrant of Fitness\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u00228965eb023bed4139bff7a88dc73012e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228965eb023bed4139bff7a88dc73012e2\u0022\u003EPeseta SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: What progress is the Government making in increasing housing supply, improving the quality of the Government\u2019s housing stock and growing the community social housing sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022acd3a107bb2444eea4270c24f4283140\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acd3a107bb2444eea4270c24f4283140\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I am encouraged by the latest building permit figures, which show that we have had 3,000 more homes built as for the same time last year. I also note last week\u2019s announcement by Fletcher\u2019s that it is trebling the number of houses that it is going to build from 300 per year to 1,000 per year, and next week I expect to gazette the first 11 special housing areas, which will net another 6,000 sections as part of the Auckland Housing Accord. We are also making good progress in improving our State housing stock, with us on schedule to insulate all 47,000 homes that can be by the end of this year, strengthening or replacing all 19,000 earthquake-prone State houses by the end of next year, and repairing or replacing all of the 5,000 earthquake-damaged houses in Christchurch by the end of 2015. This year we have also announced direct Government funding for 421 homes to be built by the community housing sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa0f7358abda4008ac94714289d84b27\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of any significant new housing developments being recently approved in Auckland, and is he satisfied that the council is improving the time frames for processing these consents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ca0ef197a0e4e21aea6f77618b44b5e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. A new development of 420 terraced houses was announced this week in Mount Wellington\u2019s Springpark, the largest such housing development for Auckland in years. The project was processed in a tight time frame of just 4 months by the Auckland Council, for which it should be commended, and illustrates how it has improved its processes in response to Government concerns. I also note that these 420 homes are in the modest $320,000 to $550,000 price range, without any regulatory requirement. This confirms that the market will respond to the demand for lower-cost housing if we create the right environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2fb38642ab344a0967a929e958b1703\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Government considering advancing housing accords with other councils; if so, which ones, and what progress is being made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216cdda1c8dd047c29173e3f20df6938e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s immediate priority was Auckland, where the housing supply issues are most acute, but I am also giving consideration to scheduling both Christchurch and Wellington. The housing issues in Christchurch are unique and quite challenging because of the earthquakes. We have built four temporary accommodation villages, we have partnered with the private sector on worker accommodation, we have established the Canterbury Earthquake Temporary Accommodation Service, and we have moved at pace to repair and rebuild our social housing stock. Tomorrow I am meeting with the new Mayor of Christchurch to explore further initiatives to support Christchurch\u2019s housing needs. Discussions in Wellington are at a preliminary stage, but I hope to be in a position to make further announcements there next month.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe866324d45645489b015659af5268b2\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he talking about trialling a warrant of fitness for Housing New Zealand houses when those houses are almost all now insulated, as he said in an earlier answer, and when he knows that the real unmet need is in the private rental market? In light of that, will he be supporting my Healthy Homes Guarantee Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f564b649ae984b47a469ed407259ba86\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The immediate priority for this Government was insulating the appalling state of State houses, where after 9 years of the previous Government, 45,000 State houses had not had a bean spent on their insulation. We are nearing the end of the completion of that insulation work, but it is incorrect to say that insulation alone is the only quality issue that we want to explore with the warrant of fitness. The Government\u2019s work about that warrant of fitness idea is advancing. I hope to be in a position in a matter of months to make announcements about that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002225f7b7a648884716a946938a6af7db86\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002241c9a0ae8cf54a5f8cc1f6e52359f1c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241c9a0ae8cf54a5f8cc1f6e52359f1c5\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The House granted leave a few minutes ago to the Hon Phil Goff to table a whole report, not selected quotes from it. I would ask that the whole report gets tabled, not the selected quotes from it. The member has got it, he offered to table it, and he should put it on the Table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022784550744d724f8189146618eadfe81d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022784550744d724f8189146618eadfe81d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was certainly my understanding of the leave that was sought that the whole of the report would be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022af25a74f5ca047de88a96db0bc5e7233\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af25a74f5ca047de88a96db0bc5e7233\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to table the whole report. I thought I would table the relevant quotes. I will leave the yellow stickers on it for the reference of members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022082e12c697d04d53bd11de4644559afe\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am very grateful for the assistance from the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc6bf2808e0e4c8ab8b7accc9c3de5b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc6bf2808e0e4c8ab8b7accc9c3de5b2\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think that does tend to indicate\u2014well, the leave was granted\u2014that the document was publicly available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022a48a446ba7754a4c9e1e010a3f663550\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a48a446ba7754a4c9e1e010a3f663550\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I clearly acknowledged, when I put the leave, that it was very publicly available. The reason that I allowed it on this occasion was that a quote had been taken from it. I took the member at his word that it was an accurate quote. The Minister, when he answered that question, referred to that quote. So it seemed to me that that information should be made available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229e5b49dae37148f891633053fb45dc63\u0022\u003EHealth and Safety, Workplace\u2014Forestry Industry\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022106910ca0aec47f7a1c98b163ff50d0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022106910ca0aec47f7a1c98b163ff50d0f\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: Does he stand by all his statements on health and safety?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00225c3bea7a6d3b4bf89256fc8fa8ba352f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c3bea7a6d3b4bf89256fc8fa8ba352f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Pretty much, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e27325033c134d11a6bf2d6a38caf42e\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister say publicly in relation to forest safety that \u201CThe Government is taking steps to address the issues that are having an impact.\u201D, when he has failed miserably to adequately staff its health and safety inspectorate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212edf22fe2924a61b64d5cb65cfb5538\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Because it is true. We have got an improved code of practice that is bedding in, and we have got a strong enforcement approach that we have started, where every logging contract operation in the country is being visited. And there are investigations, with the possibility of prosecutions, being undertaken as we speak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcf6d8ba0f33442c9a46fdb06d701fb1\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: When he publicly stated recently that he did not care and that Labour should get a life, was it his intention to tell Maryanne Butler-Finlay, widow of the most recent forestry victim and mother of twins, to also get a life?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0322932f140434c893d145e3733ea01\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Those comments were in relation to a procedural matter of David Shearer\u2019s that had nothing to do with forestry, so I think the member should get a life and actually treat these sorts of issues with some respect in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281cd5ee23c804417ad8c011a66cf0826\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Given his advice to me to get a life, what does he have in store for widow Karina McHardy, who after losing her husband in a forestry job in 2011 said that the new code would not make a difference and that \u201CI don\u2019t think the ministry is going to do anything \u2026 they always say they are going to do something.\u201D, or will he tell her as well to get a life?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f055e89973ea4b45ac71c5b6381d364e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As far as there is ministerial responsibility, I call the Hon Simon Bridges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c9d61c3ac8144c1aa0230ab49e45a97\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, let me repeat that I never made that statement in relation to anything to do with forestry. Let me also make very clear that we have a series of initiatives going on\u2014much more, in fact, than Labour did in its 9 years. I have already made it very clear about the code. I have already made clear that we are beefing up the health and safety system with an additional $30 million per annum, starting from the end of this year. I have also made it clear that we are literally going to every single forestry operation in this country at the moment\u2014in some cases stopping work and in some cases looking to prosecute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb874055b1ee40b98dc1bbb85d30dc53\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: You haven\u2019t got enough inspectors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ab3c9b1195944e0b1df4a01c1870178\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: As I have already said, in relation to the interjection, we are beefing up the inspectorate with additional capability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1c2311f37c341ffafbb741165b2e496\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the widows and families have warned that forest owners\u2019 conduct is leading to unsafe conditions and that owners should be accountable, why is he not taking ownership, showing leadership, and fulfilling his statutory responsibilities, or is he intending to tell them all to get a life?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d580f715c704a2d895a20b443b818b4\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I am showing ownership of this issue. That is, in fact, why I do not want a Government-led inquiry, because, actually, the time of inquiries is over and what we need now is action. That is why, as I have said, we have a series of initiatives. We are doing things. The forestry industry has made it quite clear that it wants to hold its own kind of review and inquiry. I support that. I think it should also take some ownership for this issue, as I have said publicly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a06adf7788db456fb7bc69c335304d26\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: When he told the media recently that he knows that the forestry companies, which he has just referred to, are animated about this issue, did he give any thought as to what he might do and say to animate the blighted lives of the orphans and widows left behind?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b55066bb49a243e6b2e7965598713421\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and that is why, as I say, I am overseeing a regime that, unlike when that member was a Minister, is ensuring that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d90ff95b50e14f10a2df5f0c7e68e480\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question I asked was directed to a remark made publicly about forestry companies. It had absolutely nothing to do with 2007-08\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c33237ab62114a65b636d384d2508a36\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member asked a type of question that I think all members want to be very cautious of asking\u2014when they are dragging in people who have suffered very unfortunate fatalities in their families. Having said that, I did not rule the question out of order. It certainly gives the Minister relatively wide licence to answer it, and I ask the Minister whether he wants to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022425742061f5e40dd82480fc4dab5c755\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is the duty of us as parliamentarians to hold Ministers to account, and I find objectionable your admonishment that it was an improper question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f01f011c0984a07b5fe9234aa8515cc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has every right to find objectionable a comment I made. I have allowed the Minister, if he has further comments to make on that answer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf6495e5929f43fb9b26b5d08c902bf0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Not only does he have every right to raise that objection, because you do not know whether or not he sought permission to raise it, but you had no right to say what you did. I think you should actually apologise to him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022207880ffb45742fc81a67fb29ea38ad9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Again, I think the member has got the right to make that point. I just think that when members raise circumstances like that, which involve families that are already coping with enough of a tragedy, they need to be very careful in raising those points. I certainly did not rule the question out of order, but in answering the question it does give a great deal of licence to a Minister to answer it. He was using that. The member then rose to his feet, taking a point of order to say that the answer was not satisfactory to him. I do not agree with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae9de525aaa94b4db5e8d4aaada9ad6c\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to give the answer, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aad369f850064604bd60bd18b4192758\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minster wants to continue with his answer, he is welcome to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9a6eecf87df405c9eb3988d72b8b2e3\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: My answer is that unlike what happened under the last Labour Government, I have made sure that every single forestry operation in this country is being visited, with a view to holding investigations where there are unacceptable practices. As I say, those investigations may well lead to prosecutions and have already led to some of those companies being stopped in their tracks and having business stopped.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002275a5937964e849f494371d4e276d8fdb\u0022\u003EHealth Services, Rural\u2014Funding and Support\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef32311bfdc6430a9552335b78824049\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef32311bfdc6430a9552335b78824049\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Health: What is the Government doing to support rural general practice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u00221844704bbc5f418a99903413e47ddefa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221844704bbc5f418a99903413e47ddefa\u0022\u003EHon JO GOODHEW (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Today I have announced an additional $9 million over 4 years to support rural general practices to retain clinical staff and services. This new investment is on top of the $13 million a year already funded for rural general practice support. This additional funding will take effect from 1 July 2014, when a new way of allocating rural funding will be rolled out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c0596d4239b40ab89e20e044428184d\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: In what other ways is the Government supporting the rural workforce?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235d839ce75d04cc5ad0f95a31c8c43c9\u0022\u003EHon JO GOODHEW\u003C/span\u003E: In many other ways. We are providing funding and support for the New Zealand Rural GP Network to manage a rural recruitment and locum service, and there is a rural midwifery recruitment and retention service, a multidisciplinary rural health immersion programme, the Rural Origin Medical Preferential Entry Scheme, the Voluntary Bonding Scheme, rural hospital medicine, postgraduate generalist placement for rural rotations, the Advanced Trainee Fellowship Scheme, and the physician assistant position. There is more, but I think my time is up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cefafae11fdb4686b58bba71200fd436\u0022\u003EOil and Gas Exploration\u2014Risk Management for Deep-sea Drilling\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u002246c56af9d848469c92be1691f9ff082e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246c56af9d848469c92be1691f9ff082e\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: Does he stand by his statement about oil and gas, \u201CAs minister, my job is to support the development of these resources in a sensible, safe and environmentally responsible way\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u002226d049452488461fb7d5799acd58aa1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226d049452488461fb7d5799acd58aa1f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d31287edf9324eac9920b4d115958275\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Minister doing his job to ensure that oil is developed in a sensible, safe, and environmentally responsible way, when as of yesterday he had not even read, or been advised on, Anadarko\u2019s environmental impact assessment report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022092d16ce510d46e09602c13b2e99678a\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Let me give the member a brief history. Under the old system, when Labour was in power, the Minister simply applied their discretion and their vibe, if you like, to the system. Now, in fact, there are independent regulatory agencies that go through and scrutinise applications in some detail. It is not for the Minister to assess them. Indeed, if I did, that member would be accusing me of crony capitalism. So I think I am in the right place on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb5cac2eee304af1b6e1912b4fc74b82\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister saying to the people of New Zealand that his job is not to read a very important environment report from the very company that had a 25 percent stake in the Gulf of Mexico spill; and how sensible, safe, and environmentally responsible is it to allow Anadarko to drill a well in the deepest water just off the Waikato coast, and not even need a marine consent, when people in the Waikato need a resource consent to drill a water bore?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208667a22f8c04ced8c203b14e3013fe6\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: To reassure the very concerned member, I can tell him that I have now perused the documents in question. But I repeat very clearly that he misconceives my function and the function of the independent regulatory agencies with the experts who go through the several hundred pages of documents to ensure that they meet their very stringent tests. That is their role. My role is to oversee them and to be in charge of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022980344d28b1b4991a77ae392bff3e256\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister ensure that Anadarko\u2019s oil spill modelling reports and oil spill contingency plans are publicly available before they start drilling this summer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220152f34c140f401d95f6508fd06e9711\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: They are not publicly available in the sense that they are there on websites necessarily for everyone to see. But they are, through Official Information Act and other processes, able to be obtained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d033c7e897d04a51a05b252b803a9cdb\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I acknowledge the Minister\u2019s answer, but the question was directed to him\u2014will he ensure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022102da3b35c47414082f4d016275a4812\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And he said no, they are not going to be publicly available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ecbbb017e0244f47aeaf9bd6f312096d\u0022\u003ERoad Safety\u2014Progress\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u00222cf40a08e98145549a544c7d4455f724\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cf40a08e98145549a544c7d4455f724\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Transport: What progress is being made in bringing down New Zealand\u2019s road toll?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022724099c2ca53482097e47eccd810ecc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022724099c2ca53482097e47eccd810ecc1\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (Associate Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Excellent news. We are tracking towards the lowest road toll in more than 60 years. The year-to-date road toll stands at 202. This is 33 fewer than at this time last year and a significant 36 percent, or 116 people, lower than just 4 years ago at the same time. Younger drivers have been a focus for the Government, so it is particularly pleasing that from 2010 to 2012 we saw a 44 percent decrease in deaths for our 15 to 19-year-olds and a 48 percent decrease in the number of 20 to 24-year-olds dying on our roads. But, of course, there is no room for complacency, especially with Labour Weekend coming up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022668886952c994a2181d6e6ea640541e4\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: What are the key messages for motorists to remember over the long weekend to keep them and their families safe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f61e1db62954ceb991527b52891d821\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: A very good question. The messages for drivers are clear: stay focused on your driving, take breaks, drive to the conditions, reduce your speed, and, of course, do not drink and drive. I would also add to this list the request for people to obey the law and stay off their cellphones while driving, as any distraction can be deadly. I wish everyone across the House and across the country a safe long weekend, and I hope everyone comes back in one piece.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae28c2948bfa414393d431b9366f6833\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the New Zealand Police, which recently told the Law and Order Committee that lowering the drink-driving limit is the single most effective measure that Parliament could take to further reduce the road toll; if so, will he, at the first opportunity, vote to reduce the limit to the internationally accepted level of 0.05 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ed1a3e00ae4452ca553aa39dfdcd97e\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would certainly agree, to the extent that the Government has already lowered the blood-alcohol level for our young and for recidivist drink-drivers, and that and other initiatives have led to a significant reduction, after 9 years of virtually flat-lining, in the last 4 years. But as the member knows, the Government is considering the evidence on lowering the adult drink-driving limit, and it will report in due course on the findings of that evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bec62b67ffb1405b8e3c65edcb580dc4\u0022\u003EWarm Up New Zealand: Heat Smart\u2014Standard of Work\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022 data-id=\u002295580fe505964a509247c171bba4e371\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295580fe505964a509247c171bba4e371\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: Does he stand by all his statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022c281d73cbc0043aca0ee0c61b7afd800\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c281d73cbc0043aca0ee0c61b7afd800\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and can I congratulate the member on her first energy question. That is one more question than the Labour spokesman has ever asked\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d58c89433e144e2a4eb2dfc67d55097\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is not going to help the order of this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232654a16dd744270a6e9efc99b460787\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor\u003C/span\u003E: How can he stand by his statement in the House this Tuesday: \u201CI want to thank third-party funders, the insulation service providers, and local authorities, who have worked together with the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority to help make Warm Up New Zealand: Heat Smart such a success.\u201D, when there are instances where shoddy workmanship has been reported but not rectified?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a68be513eb04226a1be1cd5038da2aa\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Because it is true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022521da5c36f9f4d228fb6128cc32a4b7b\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that there are people who are very dissatisfied with the standard of work in their homes in connection with Heat Smart?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb58646744c34ba9aa6588f6558d72c9\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I think what is important to note is that when we look, in contrast to what has happened in Australia in this area, we have a superb record, actually, of excellence when it comes to home insulation from the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority. If the member has examples that she wants to bring to my attention, I will take them very seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d16d4a3e15d5436c85191da67e38dc26\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor\u003C/span\u003E: That is good to hear. Will he give an assurance that those who are dissatisfied with the standard of work under Heat Smart will have their complaints dealt with promptly and effectively?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c01f85104dd43009a4426eb6910c24b\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they should certainly have their complaints dealt with properly, promptly, and effectively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220233728443b548c192e8fa4c40c28798\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor\u003C/span\u003E: Wonderful. How many companies have been excluded from the Heat Smart programme as a result of the auditing process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231b2c90bed984d25a3016a4bec1e7afa\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have those figures on me. I understand there have been exclusions, though. It is a relatively rigorous process that is gone through by the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority to make sure that the standards that these insulation providers bring to bear are very good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e12a6c6ecae44011b93eadc1fa4c3c30\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor\u003C/span\u003E: How many complaints have been received in connection with Heat Smart?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c21819e73b6442b189fd0cf893a2dc87\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is important to bear in mind that some 235,000 have been insulated in a phenomenally successful programme. I could not say what small number of complaints there has been in relation to that massive success, but, again, if the member wants to put that in writing, I am happy to provide that number.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edcbfb205f4b4f97ae79193a2ad79705\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Can I just seek your clarification, because I did ask how many complaints. He did not say how many; he was just giving\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223f2825912db4b629310915e7f617242\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member said he was unaware of that information, and, to be fair to the Minister, when the member asks such an all-encompassing primary question, it is not reasonable to expect Ministers to have that sort of detail in their heads or in their notes as they come to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bcac73a29b4b45869c058ca9ab35131e\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002240271c77735143fe8df7195f93422667\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00222e6c3046214e4b2ab9b23361743146e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e6c3046214e4b2ab9b23361743146e6\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That urgency be accorded the introduction and passing of the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill. It does not give me any pleasure at all to move this motion today, but I do wish to thank other parties in the House for agreeing that this was a matter that needed to be dealt with urgently by the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe problem here is that oaths that were taken by police employees between 13 October 2009 and 13 October 2013 needed to have been administered according to the law. It would appear that police have not administered those oaths according to the altered Policing Act. I want to point out that this is the second time that they have come to Parliament asking Parliament to validate their actions, and it certainly does not reflect well on the police that we are put in this position and that so much of Parliament\u2019s valuable time gets soaked up trying to sort out something that should never have happened in the first place. Although this is a straightforward technical matter, it is none the less one that is an extreme irritation and, I would suggest, potentially quite an embarrassment to the police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThis bill will remove any doubts about the validity of the actions of the affected police employees, effectively constables, and prevent unmeritorious claims of invalid exercise of police powers. We will follow a process this afternoon, agreed by the Business Committee. I am sure that members will wish to express their concern about the need for this particular bout of urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b91bc262cc84470ea02ef398635aa998\u0022\u003EPolicing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fc9b246429d147108d690ff2ed914f2f\u0022\u003EProcedure\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ab1b2ba148b4f728cf13385dbabb68f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call the Hon Gerry Brownlee. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229d681ee8ba9d4d59906264109873af7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d681ee8ba9d4d59906264109873af7b\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E If I am slightly slow off my feet, it only expresses the irritation of having to do it in the first place. I seek leave for the question on the bill\u2019s first reading to be taken without debate and, following its second reading, for the bill to be set down for a third reading forthwith. With those grumpy statements, I would be very careful not to offend\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fce5eb1b82944d79aff8f77eb5533759\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b6128a8f0ce24cd18c937b1e497b2541\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00223de5dc64a33b42cba720e52a8061a37e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223de5dc64a33b42cba720e52a8061a37e\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f80eda161be643e0b9f7681793554676\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea7895c61050406cac445814811ce556\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea7895c61050406cac445814811ce556\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. The bill is validating legislation that will deem oaths of office taken by police employees between 13 October 2009 and 13 October 2013 to have been administered as though the persons administering those oaths had been authorised by the Commissioner of Police. It is a straightforward amendment involving the insertion of one new section into the Policing Act 2008. It is to come into force the day after it receives the Royal assent. [Interruption] It gives me no great pleasure to be here either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E The background to this bill is as follows. On 1 October 2008 the Policing Act came into force. Prior to this under the Police Act 1958 the constable\u2019s oath was taken before a justice or a commissioned officer of police at the rank of inspector or above. A justice or commissioned officer of police was not required to be specifically authorised to administer the constable\u2019s oath. However, section 22 of the Policing Act instituted a new procedure for administering the constable\u2019s oath. Under the current Act the oath can be administered only by the commissioner or a person specifically authorised by the commissioner. In addition, the person administering the constable\u2019s oath must be satisfied that the police employees who are taking the oath have been adequately trained and are capable of exercising the powers of a constable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E Between 13 October 2009 and 13 October 2013 the constable\u2019s oaths were administered to ex-constables who were rejoining the police by district commanders or inspectors based in the police districts, who had not been formally authorised by the commissioner. The district commanders and inspectors had assumed that they had the authority to administer the oath. The constable\u2019s oaths have now been administered to the affected police employees by persons formally authorised under section 22 of the Policing Act, so all affected employees have had full constabulary powers conferred upon them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EHowever, uncertainty about conferral of constabulary powers continues for those affected police employees who purportedly exercised constabulary powers without the necessary authority between 13 October 2009 and 13 October 2013. It is very important that people should have confidence that officials are properly invested with statutory powers and that taxpayers should not be obliged to meet the significant expenses that would be incurred if all exercise of statutory powers taken by the affected employees was subject to legal challenge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe bill will deem the oaths taken by affected constables to have been administered as if the persons administering the oaths had been approved by the Commissioner of Police. It will remove any doubt about the validity of the actions of the affected police employees and thereby promote certainty and confidence in the acts carried out by them. The legislation is consistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. The bill does not retrospectively validate actions that could be seen as inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EI have been assured by the Commissioner of Police that steps have now been taken to make sure that this does not happen again. They are putting in place a system that will not fully register a constable who has been undergoing training until the oaths are checked and it is ensured that the appropriate process has been followed. I thank my colleagues in the House for their forbearance at having to put through this legislation under urgency this afternoon. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022b747e090ad764570b0da47045b24f632\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b747e090ad764570b0da47045b24f632\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E For some, I am sure, it will seem quite unbelievable that we can be here again\u2014and I do want to emphasise that we are here again\u2014dealing with a similar matter that we have dealt with before. I will go through the history of the police oath in a moment, but I just want to say that as much as the Minister\u2014less so, actually, the Minister\u2014and, indeed, much more so, as Gerry Brownlee tried to express his faux grumpiness at the police for the situation that we find ourselves in, I have to say the way he has conducted himself in the House this afternoon procedurally means that most people were probably more inclined to think that it has been incompetence on that side of the House that may have actually led us to this place today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe can only assume that this is indicative, to a certain degree, of a Minister who has taken her eye off the ball. We all know about the concept and importance of constabulary independence, but that certainly should not mean distancing yourself so far from your role as Minister of Police that not even your constables are being sworn in properly. That is how far constabulary independence has gone today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EFor the sake of those listening today, though, I want to go back over how we have come to the point where we are now going through urgency, in order to rectify an error in the way that the law has been administered and constables have received their ability to do their duties under the Policing Act. So let us go back to the background. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe Policing Act of 2008, which was indeed passed under Labour, was the culmination of an incredibly large amount of work. It was conducted in a cross-party way, because, of course, for matters like the way that the police are governed, it is only right that we get bipartisan support on an issue like that. It took roughly 2 years of consultation before that bill came to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBefore the 2008 Act, the Police Act of 1958 set out how a constable\u2019s oath was undertaken. That was set out in section 37 of the Police Act 1958. The old law was more liberal in the way that a constable was conferred their power. There was no specific authorisation required in order to confer an oath. It could be carried out by any commissioned officer. That was section 37 of the Police Act 1958\u2014quite liberal in the way that it set out those oaths. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe Policing Act 2008 was quite different. I want to refer to section 22 of the Policing Act 2008, which says: \u201CA Police employee may become a constable only by taking the constable\u2019s oath, in either of the following forms, before the Commissioner or a person authorised by the Commissioner to administer the constable\u2019s oath:\u201D. That was the change that was made in 2008. It was recognised, however, in October of 2009 that that Act was not being appropriately administered, and that was essentially because people who were not correctly authorised had continued to act in the way that they had under the old law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E That meant that we had an amendment made through the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Act that provided that for the period from 1 October 2008 to 12 October 2009, everyone who was conferred on oath over that period was retrospectively covered and their oaths were validated. So that brings us up to date with today. That is the history of this saga thus far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAt some point it has been brought to the Minister\u2019s attention, however, that even then that amendment was not being appropriately applied. I would not mind hearing from the Minister of Police, when she rises to her feet to make another contribution to the House, at what point she became aware of this. I would not mind hearing from the Minister\u2014or from her colleague Judith Collins, who was, I believe, the Minister in charge at the time, in October 2009. It was her job to ensure that this amendment was then implemented appropriately across the New Zealand Police. Be under no doubt that it was the Minister\u2019s job then to make sure that this was carried out appropriately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBut what happened instead? Well, we now know that although that was being done appropriately within the Police College situation, there are 63 ex-constables who have rejoined the police since 13 October 2009 who took their oath before a person not authorised to administer the oath. How did that happen? Well, in the old days it used to be that a superintendent or an area controller could administer the oath locally to someone who was coming back into the police because, of course, they were not coming back through the Police College. That was how the old Act allowed that to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EOf course, as I have already outlined, and, in fact, if we go to section 22 of the Policing Act, it very clearly states that an oath is to be taken before the commissioner or before a person authorised by the commissioner. \u201CA Police employee may become a constable only by taking the constable\u2019s oath in either of the following forms, before the Commissioner\u201D\u2014really clear; that is set out in primary legislation, and nothing more is required\u2014\u201Cor a person authorised by the Commissioner \u2026\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ESo what happened? The Government did not authorise district commanders to carry out those oaths locally for ex - police officers who returned. It was pretty explicit, though, that that was exactly what needed to happen according to the Act. The one thing that needed to happen, and the Minister needed to ensure was happening, was that it was either the commissioner who carried out the oath or it was someone authorised by the commissioner\u2014pretty straightforward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWhy did the Minister not ask who had been authorised to carry out those oaths? Why did the Minister not make the checks and balances to ensure that if they were not happening through the Police College, it was at least ensuring that those oaths that were happening outside the Police College were authorised? It was a very basic thing, after reaching the situation that we had got to, where we had to go through urgency, surely, a Minister who had her eye on the ball with regard to what was going on within the police would have asked that very question. So that is a significant concern for the Labour Party. I would like to hear from the Minister why those checks and balances were not in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBut let me be absolutely clear: it would be irresponsible of members on this side of the House\u2014in fact, it would be irresponsible of any party in this House\u2014not to support this legislation. We need to ensure that those 63 officers, in the performance of their duties, have their role validated retrospectively. We have serious qualms any time that retrospective legislation is used, but if you are going to use an example of where something just has to be accepted, this would be one. It would be irresponsible to take any other position. But I think it is only fair and right that we ask the questions as to why those checks were not made, when we have already been here once before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI do want to make a clarification, though. The first time that these oaths were changed, from the Act from the 1950s to the Act in 2008, that was a significant change for the police in the way those oaths were administered. In fact, you could almost see how that error could have occurred. Of course, there is no excuse, but you can see what happened there. This time I think it seems a little more difficult to see how this could have happened, and so I would like to hear the Minister\u2019s explanation around that in terms of her ministerial oversight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI do want to say that you get the inference from the fact that we have had 63 police officers returning to the force, and who have had this oath administered on them, that perhaps we have got growing police numbers under this Minister. That is something that I want to refute up front. In fact, I will be speaking more on the issue of policing numbers in my next contribution, because this Minister has absolutely broken her promises to New Zealand around front-line policing\u2014absolutely broken her promises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EShe told the police\u2014indeed, she told the country\u2014that we should have a ratio of one officer for every 500 New Zealanders. How many new officers have we had in New Zealand currently, since 2009? We have 52\u201452 new front-line police officers. I have plenty more to say on the impact that we have had of having 52 more officers, but 234 fewer non-sworn staff in support roles for those officers. So, functionally, those 52 officers are not there, out on the beat\u2014absolutely not. They are having to do the duties of the more than 200 non-sworn staff who are no longer serving with the police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI have much more to say on that, but for now I would like to hear what the members on that side of the House have to say to explain how the Minister kept her eye off the ball so badly that we have ended up back here now. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce89f00a10f3480588bdd07903f4a682\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce89f00a10f3480588bdd07903f4a682\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Have we finished? I call the honourable member Mark Mitchell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3ebc4acdc87477a9e2c9a8195e04dce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3ebc4acdc87477a9e2c9a8195e04dce\u0022\u003EMARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to take a call on the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill. I just wanted to commend the Minister of Police and also the Commissioner of Police for realising that there had been an administration error and moving quickly to fix it. I do want to highlight and point out the fact that Ms Ardern made, which is that this relates directly to 63 police officers. It does not relate to new recruits; it relates to 63 police officers who have rejoined the police. Actually, it is a great testament to the quality of the leadership within our police currently that we do have experienced officers who have left and who are choosing to come back and rejoin the police. I am very happy to commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7ac6fc6e5c4486bbcd1209824c8fb3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7ac6fc6e5c4486bbcd1209824c8fb3d\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I was hoping that when the member Mark Mitchell took to his feet, he was going to give the House some explanation about the Slater father and son, Luigi Wewege, and the nefarious activities at the Auckland Council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI have to say that I do not agree with Mark Mitchell. I often respect what he says, but I do not agree with his statement, diminishing the significance of what we are doing in the House today, that only 63 police officers are affected. It is not only 63 police officers who are affected. These are police officers who have taken statements, supposedly as sworn officers. They are people who have given evidence before the courts. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea1d7fb3df6041d4a5195409bddcdc69\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. I have two members who are interjecting on each other and who do not have the floor. That is not permitted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9b058b586404ab49ade8f4f8cce24ab\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: If only the member who is interjecting from his seat, Mark Mitchell, had taken more than 1 minute to speak to this bill. I can understand why he took only 1 minute, because, frankly, it is a profound embarrassment that this has happened. It is a profound embarrassment that we are here today, under urgency, passing retrospective legislation. This is not even an uncommon event. We were here doing the same thing for the Crown Minerals amendment legislation earlier in the year. As a member of Parliament, in most instances I am not in favour of pushing bills through all of their stages under urgency. I am even less in favour of pushing bills through all of their stages that have retrospective impact. The constitutional purity of that is not good. It offends against our principles in both of those areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI have to say to the House that we are doing this today only because in all of the circumstances it is the responsible thing for an Opposition to do. Nothing that we are doing today should be taken by the Government as providing a carte blanche for ramming through legislation under urgency or ramming through retrospective legislation. Why is it the responsible thing to do this today, rather than oppose it on both of those grounds? It is the responsible thing because if we do not do this, it is clear that that would have an adverse affect on the victims of crime. There are many people who have been the victims of crime and who would otherwise find that the convictions of the people who offended against them were overturned. People who have been found guilty by the courts of this land would not be held accountable and their convictions would be overturned because of the invalidity of the oath administered to the officers concerned. So Mr Mitchell can say that it is only 63 officers but, I am sorry, that is 63 police officers too many who, through no fault of their own, have been acting unlawfully in the pursuit of their duties. It is always a serious matter when something like that comes before the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI want to refer briefly to what Gerry Brownlee said. It is not my habit to quote the Leader of the House, because most of his statements are, frankly, not very quotable. But he said it was embarrassing\u2014and it is indeed embarrassing to the Government and to this Parliament\u2014that a mistake of this nature should be made. What I found just as embarrassing was when the Leader of the House got up and then resumed his seat without moving the motion that he had got up to move. Then the Minister of Police got up to begin the second reading debate with her speech and forgot to move the motion that this be read a second time. What this says to me is that we are seeing a tawdry Government that is not on top of its game. This is a mistake-ridden Government, and this bill, which is having to be passed retrospectively and under urgency, is again just symptomatic of a Government that has lost touch, that is tired, that is tawdry, and that is not on top of its game. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EAnne Tolley, the Minister of Police, said that this was a straightforward amendment. It is relatively straightforward. It has only four clauses. But it is an amendment that would never have been necessary to bring before this House if, in the administration of the law passed, the Government and the police force had done it properly. I want the Minister to tell us when she became aware of this mistake and to tell us why the mistake was made. We simply cannot afford to have Parliament brought together under urgency to pass retrospective legislation and send a message to the civil servants of this country that it is OK to get things of fundamental importance wrong. I am really worried that the wrong message will be given by simply saying that this is straightforward, it is a minor mistake, and we will fix it up. It was a mistake. I accept that. I know it would not have been done deliberately. But it is a mistake, as I have pointed out, that has serious implications for the functioning of the law of this land, the rule of law, and doing things properly through this Parliament. So I want to know when the Minister of Police first became aware of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EObviously, if you became aware that people were acting unlawfully because they were not properly sworn, then every day that you delayed bringing in legislation before the House to remedy that, those 63 officers would have been acting unlawfully\u2014again, I stress, through no fault of their own. They were not aware that the oath had been improperly administered. I find no fault with the constable on the beat, who was out there doing his or her job and who was doing it in good faith. I make no reflection on them at all. But I think it reflects on the adequacy of how we are running a significant body such as the police force if we make mistakes of this nature. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI actually want the Minister to reflect to the House whether she believes that this in any way represents a failure on the part of her predecessor, Judith Collins, under whom the legislation was passed and whose role it was as Minister of Police to ensure that the law was properly carried out and carried into effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI want to now go through what this bill says, but, just before I do that, I really think that the Minister needs to give us an explanation in the context of whether this mistake is symptomatic of a malaise within the police force today. I was very proud, Mr Assistant Speaker Robertson, as you would have been, to be a member of a Government that in 3 years increased in net terms our front-line sworn police officers by 1,000. It made a huge difference. If our crime rate is less than it was before, that is because we have got more people out there acting proactively. It was a big expense, but I think it was a worthwhile expense. Never let anybody forget that a Labour Government was the Government that increased the number of police officers by 1,000. I was worried, Minister, when I heard you before the Law and Order Committee, and the Commissioner of Police, indicate that that impetus of having sufficient police officers on the beat has been lost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EIn fact, when I look at the figures that you gave us, they represent a cut in numbers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022391606daa838480090acd897c05df3da\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221092d5f12c8c4c33b7ebec3338163608\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I meant the figures that the Minister of Police gave us. I am sorry, Mr Assistant Speaker; you would never have done anything like that. The figures that the Minister gave us show that right across the country there is a reduction in sworn police personnel. Northland is down by 16. Waitemat\u0101 is down by 53. Auckland is down by 22. Counties Manukau, an area that has, unfortunately, suffered from a higher than average crime rate, as you will be aware, Mr Assistant Speaker\u2014using \u201Cyou\u201D in the proper sense this time\u2014is down by 104 officers, down by 104 police personnel. Waikato is down by 36. The Bay of Plenty is down by 14. The central district is down by 38. The eastern district is down by five. Wellington, this city, is down by 46. Tasman is down by four. Canterbury is down by 60. The southern area is down by 26. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWe have also had a dramatic reduction of non-sworn personnel. The president of the Police Association this very morning was saying that when you slash non-sworn personnel by over 234, you are actually putting the work that they should be doing on the backs of the police officers who are on the front line. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI am worried too that this malaise is reflected in the closure of police stations all around the country. The police commissioner and the Minister promised me that my police station in Mount Roskill would not be closed to the public. For 8 months this year it has been temporarily closed. It is not open to the public, and right across Auckland and my area we have seen police stations closed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ESo this bill is necessary. It is sad that it is here. There is a wider malaise within the police force. It is time that this Minister started to get things right and to put her energy into making sure that this country is policed as well as it ought to be and as well as the citizens of this country deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022fed21017dd6c46739b48bd967ff74e3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fed21017dd6c46739b48bd967ff74e3d\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E A few days ago when I first saw the title of this bill we are debating today I actually assumed it was on my desk by mistake. I saw the top line and thought: \u201CWhy has somebody disinterred that old thing?\u201D. For a moment I thought: \u201CWas there a sunset clause in that legislation we passed back in 2009 under urgency?\u201D. Of course there was not. It was a piece of legislation necessary to remedy an error, and sadly here we are again some 4 years later, once again retrospectively putting right virtually the same mistake. Clearly that is an unacceptable situation. It brings no credit to anyone. It chews up a great deal of time in this Parliament at a time of year when we have a long Order Paper and after this only five more sitting weeks. It is a wholly unsatisfactory situation, but there you are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe new bill of course, the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill 2013, will sit alongside a bill entitled exactly the same but the last number would be 2009. The Greens will support this bill simply because it would be irresponsible to do otherwise, and that point has been made by our Labour colleagues. The situation that the bill remedies is untenable and cannot be allowed to stand. I would make the point that we are supporting this bill of our own volition despite some rather over-excited media commentary, which I saw earlier today, suggesting what the Greens, and indeed Labour, have done: \u201CA backstairs deal has been sewn up to ensure the legislation\u2026\u201D passes. I would just like to put on record that neither I nor any of my Green colleagues have met with Minister Tolley on the backstairs or anywhere else. It is a nonsense report. We are supporting this legislation because, as I said, it would be irresponsible not to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe situation is untenable. It is untenable for a number of reasons. We cannot allow the error to stand. To do so would put 63 serving police officers in a position where they could be prosecuted for carrying out their duties, which they have done in good faith for the time since they have been sworn in. If any one of us was to present ourselves as if we were police officers we would clearly be subject to some fairly serious legal consequence, and that is as it should be. Impersonating a police officer is an extremely serious offence, and so it should be. Effectively the 63 officers have been, in effect, impersonating a police constable, and that is an untenable situation for them. They could be personally liable for their actions at any point where they have gone beyond carrying out activities that a normal person, a civilian, a non-officer would carry out. They are then vulnerable to being charged personally, and that is simply unacceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe other side of it, of course, is that any of the prosecutions, arrests, or legal processes that those officers or their activities have stimulated could be deemed invalid. It could clearly result in ongoing prosecutions having to halt and convictions having to be overturned. Effectively some people who committed crimes, people who have performed criminal activities, could get off, and could escape justice if we do not put this error right. As I say, it would be simply untenable to do otherwise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI actually enjoyed the hospitality of the Police Association at its dinner last night. I had to bite my tongue quite hard on a number of occasions to not reveal the content of what we would be debating today. I looked about that room and I wondered whether any of these 63 affected officers were in that room. In all likelihood at least some of them were. It puts them in a very unhealthy situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI think it is worth quoting the insertion into the Policing Act, section 115A of the 2008 Act, which was inserted as a result of the 2009 legislation. It says: \u201CA Police employee or judicial officer who has administered the constable\u2019s oath described in section 22(1) in the period 1 October 2008 and ended with the close of 12 October 2009 is to be treated as having been authorised, throughout that period, by the Commissioner to administer the oath\u2026\u201D. Now we are going to see yet another paragraph inserted below that, one to remedy this latest oversight. One hopes that we will not be back in a year\u2019s time inserting yet more text into that already much amended Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EAt the time in 2009 when the first mistake was uncovered, I think that the media commentary\u2014and, indeed, academic commentary\u2014was reasonably benign. It was accepted that a mistake had been made. People make mistakes. It was a technical error, a glitch. I think there was certainly some reporting, in the New Zealand Herald for example, and Television New Zealand ran a story on the matter. It was, as I said, reasonably benign; it was not overly critical. I guess we all recognised that we can make mistakes. But to make the second mistake\u2014or rather, to make the same mistake twice\u2014simply smacks of carelessness and lack of attention to detail, and that is completely unacceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThere was an academic study done recently on the use of urgency by this Government and preceding Governments, and there was an interesting analysis done of situations where these academics judged the use of urgency to be justifiable or not against a set of criteria, and I think \u201Cor not\u201D equalled political expediency. The particular piece of legislation passed in 2009 was deemed to be a justifiable use of urgency, and arguably today is also a justifiable use of urgency in order to avoid any appeals against what may have happened in the interim. It may be justified in that sense, but it is not justifiable to simply accept that this mistake could have been made not once but twice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIt is critical that we put this right, but it is unfortunate that a recent citizen satisfaction survey\u2014as recently as September of this year, and it was a 10,000 respondent survey so it was a pretty robust investigation\u2014found that 79 percent of those 10,000 people reported they were confident in the country\u2019s police officers. The survey asked people their views about police, their feelings on how safe they felt, and what their service experience was when they had interactions with the police. The overall satisfaction with service delivery sat at 83 percent, and given that for numbers of us our interactions with officers are going to cost us money\u2014if, for example, we have been misbehaving in terms of speed limits or whatever it might be\u2014I think that is a remarkably high display of confidence, and I believe that is well justified. Our police do a good job, they do a difficult job, and I believe that for the most part they do it very, very well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe repetition of this mistake cannot do other than weaken the public\u2019s confidence in the police service. It can do not other than cast doubt on the organisation: not on individual officers necessarily, but certainly on the administration of the police force. It is most unfortunate that the officers out there\u2014who are working very, very hard to do the right thing, to fulfil the oath that they take in good faith, and doing all the right things by the public to do their best to keep the peace and ensure public safety\u2014are being compromised by these administrative errors, which cannot stand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe heard from the Minister earlier that there will be an internal investigation lead by Police Commissioner Marshall to discover what went on and to ensure it does not happen again. That is a good thing, and I have the greatest confidence in the commissioner\u2019s integrity, but I think we need to go beyond that. I believe we need an external inquiry into how these mistakes happened and how we can be sure that they do not reoccur. For that reason, I have today written to the Auditor-General\u2019s office, asking the Auditor-General under section 16 of the Public Audit Act to undertake an inquiry into this matter to endeavour to identify what has happened, why it happened, and how we can ensure that this situation does not occur and that we do not find ourselves once again in a year\u2019s time passing legislation under urgency to fix something that ought never to have happened. With that point I will end my speech, but I will seek leave to table a letter that I have today sent to the Auditor-General. I do seek that leave now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb741149f0e74896b8ff7018e0a9c3f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb741149f0e74896b8ff7018e0a9c3f9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The honourable member has sought leave to table a letter. Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is none. The member may table it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u00221609ddae5b8347d7be3b11eaa204cbe4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221609ddae5b8347d7be3b11eaa204cbe4\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E None of us came to Parliament to pass this type of legislation, but having said that, it seems a pity to me that we have to score cheap political points over a genuine, if unfortunate, mistake by a very competent and effective police force. It is a tall order to expect the Minister of Police to delve into her portfolios so deeply as to ensure the correct person witnesses a signature. Surely, to quote Ms Ardern, the Minister has the right to expect the police to ensure that process is followed correctly. I support the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill for all the reasons the Minister outlined in her speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00224b3dc4aa64034a0cad4417d39166d948\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b3dc4aa64034a0cad4417d39166d948\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Have we finished? I call the honourable member Richard Prosser.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022 data-id=\u0022629abb95f82e4aa6a1be565e74245b87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022629abb95f82e4aa6a1be565e74245b87\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to take a call on this, the second reading\u2014notwithstanding that it is actually the first reading\u2014of the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThis is retrospective legislation being passed under urgency, and in almost every other case New Zealand First would be totally opposed to it for those two reasons alone. The fact that this House is being required to dispense with both the first reading and the Committee stage of this bill is further reason for us to oppose it under normal circumstances, as is the reality that there will be no public submissions and no examination by a select committee. However, this is not a typical case, and the Government\u2019s reasons for bringing this bill\u2014and bringing it in the manner in which it has\u2014are not typical either. We realise that, and we understand that a part of being a constructive party of Opposition sometimes requires us to put pragmatism ahead of pedantry. We believe this is one of those occasions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWe could choose to oppose this bill and the manner in which it is traversing this House on principle. We could decry the Government for trampling on the constitution, riding roughshod over established convention, violating the essence of democracy, and tearing down the ramparts of due lawmaking process. In almost any other case we would and in any other case we would be justified in so doing and, indeed, it would be our constitutional duty to do so. But this is not an ordinary matter, and the nature and realities of the issue that this bill seeks to address dictate that we are compelled by reasons of pragmatism to view this bill and this process through a different lens. As such, New Zealand First does endorse the use of this process in this case, and we will therefore support the passage of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThis bill is a short, simple instrument of legislation. Its passing into law will have no great ramifications for the New Zealand nation. In fact, it will go unnoticed by ordinary people as they go about their everyday lives. However, the consequences of not passing it, even in this somewhat abrupt and irregular fashion, do have the potential to cause much upset and disquiet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThis bill corrects what is in reality nothing more than a technical error in the process of the reswearing-in of a small number of returning former police officers. These are officers who have been police constables in the past, who have been sworn officers, and who have carried out police duties in that capacity. They have left the service of their own volition and then chosen to return. In doing so, it is required that they be resworn. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EHowever, for a small number of them\u2014some 63 in total\u2014sometime during the period in which they were out of the police force, the rules changed around who was and who was not authorised to carry out that reswearing. This has meant that for some of them\u2014the 63 officers referred to\u2014the oath taken when they re-entered the force was administered by a person not authorised to administer it under those particular circumstances. This bill corrects that anomaly and it is necessary that it does so, because if the anomaly is not corrected, the officers in question are, technically, not sworn police constables. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThe implications of this are that the arrests they have made over the period, since they returned to the force, and all other police duties are technically illegal. It does not require a great intellect to deduce from this that many people who have been rightly arrested, brought before the courts, found guilty and convicted, and subjected to the penalties of the State may find themselves with the legal avenue by which they may have those convictions overturned. We would find ourselves having to let people out of jail, despite the fact that they are, in fact, guilty of the crimes for which they have been incarcerated. This would of course be ridiculous. The only winners would be criminals and, of course, lawyers, who would have a field day and\u2014dare I say it\u2014a rather large pay day as well. And we cannot have that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First understands and accepts that in some circumstances\u2014on some rare, few occasions\u2014circumstances dictate that normal due process must be dispensed with, in the best interests of the greater good. This, we feel, is one such case. I reiterate that it is a simple, straightforward, transparent, and necessary matter to advance this change, and for those reasons we will be supporting the bill, even though under normal circumstances we would vociferously oppose it on the basis of urgency and truncated process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI do not intend to take up any more of the time of the House, or give the legal vultures any more time to circle, before closing by saying again that New Zealand First supports this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u002231f3e2dbb79f453e9555c9465af26475\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231f3e2dbb79f453e9555c9465af26475\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E It is fair to say that everyone has canvassed that no one is a fan of this particular type of legislation\u2014the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill. What I am not a fan of\u2014and I think we should actually be above\u2014is actually playing politics about a situation that is actually outside the purview of anyone in this House, the Minister of Police included. It is outside the purview of anyone within this House and politicians, and outside the purview of any political party, because this was an operational matter that a handful of police officers got wrong. That is not to say that that should be forgiven. That is a mistake backed on the back of another one, and I would suggest that there would be some police officers who are very red-faced about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EI am very loyal to the police. The police would be the first to acknowledge themselves that a handful of them have made an error in doing what they have done. The implications of this House not acting prudently\u2014as I believe we actually all are\u2014to address the matter would be significant. So we are going about that. But the cheap, from-the-hip shots that I have heard to date are unnecessary. Let us focus on what this is actually about, and do what is concerned. If any message should be sent, it should be sent to those who are responsible, to ensure that the attention to detail that they should afford to their operational duties is carried out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00220bafbe5e956f4627b0803faf149d7708\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220bafbe5e956f4627b0803faf149d7708\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I firstly want to pay tribute to the New Zealand Police, and also to the two colleagues opposite who are ex-policemen. Police do a job that none of us would want to do and very few of us would be capable of doing. They show extreme courage in looking after communities and saving lives, and putting themselves between those in society who want to do others harm and our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThat being said, I note with interest that two of the ex - police folk who are now members of Parliament, and members of the National Party, made some very interesting contributions on this bill, the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill. Mr Mitchell got up and said that he praised the Minister of Police for her oversight and for the diligent way she dealt with this issue. What he failed to say, of course, was that the previous Minister of Police, one Judith Collins, had also dealt, in theory, with this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to Mr Sabin that he makes an interesting point. He talks about the need for attention to detail, but somehow, in that concept, he absolves the old Westminster tradition that a Minister is responsible, and that a Minister has ultimate oversight. He says that this is an operational matter, and that the police\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022131a42fb0ad94a0f92159e9f2bbcf383\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: But is not in control of operational matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd485553854a4bc18d757ddb4a606c95\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Ah, well, that is where the member is wrong. He notes this is an operational matter but, I say to Mr Sabin, here is the difference. After there has been one stuff-up at an operational level you would, if you were a diligent Minister, put it on the checklist, and every now and again you would say to the commissioner: \u201CNow, commissioner, we\u2019re swearing the boys and girls in appropriately, aren\u2019t we? This is all OK, isn\u2019t it?\u201D. What that actually means is that you know the right questions to ask as a Minister. It is called doing your duty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIt is a bit like Mr Brownlee with the earthquake\u2014I am sure he is very diligent. I am sure he was very diligent in ensuring, for instance, that the Christchurch City Council had consents as its top priority and was doing them properly. That is, as we know, a good Tui\u2019s ad. I say to Mr Sabin that a Minister has to know. When you are a Minister you have a duty to ask the right questions and to monitor your department, especially after stuff-up No. 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say this is serious\u2014and I pay tribute to Mr Clendon, who made a very good point\u2014because 63 officers, as colleagues have said, may well have put themselves in legal harm\u2019s way. They have probably put themselves in legal harm\u2019s way\u2014legally, that is\u2014and put themselves in personal jeopardy in respect of the law, because, technically, they have acted outside the law because their elders and betters did not swear them in in an appropriate fashion. They were not authorised, that is, to swear them in in the appropriate fashion, and the Minister was asleep at the wheel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo I say to Mr Sabin that Ministers have a duty to ask the right questions. Ministers do not just sit there like a bunch of muppets and believe everything that their departmental officials tell them. When I was a Minister, I used to ask frequently: \u201CNow, can I have some evidence or an example that what you are saying is absolutely correct. Can I can see some evidence?\u201D, or, by the way, I would ask for some third-party advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E But maybe Minister Tolley was too busy dancing on the hood of the odd boy racer\u2019s car and having photo opportunities to actually do her job. And, of course, National members accuse us of politics. They say: \u201CThis was unintentional. This was a mistake.\u201D They always do that over there when it is their crew who have stuffed up. Well, I say to the Minister that once is a mistake, twice is incompetence, and three times is negligence. Minister Tolley ought to realise, as the Minister of Police\u2014and Mr Sabin and Mr Mitchell would know this\u2014what would have happened if Mr Sabin or Mr Mitchell had been one of the 63 who had done a superb job looking after our communities, only to have their bosses say: \u201CSorry, technically you\u2019ve acted illegally. You could be in trouble. I\u2019ve got to go up to the Minister\u2019s office and ask her whether we can bang through some legislation.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI agree with other speakers who say it is appropriate that we deal with this under urgency. It is appropriate in this one particular case that we put forward retrospective legislation. I say to those commentators who, another colleague alleged, said that somehow there had been some backdoor deal with Labour and National that my colleague Jacinda Ardern advises me that there has been no meeting with her as police spokesperson. This issue was brought up and dealt with, with all parties, in the Business Committee by Mr Brownlee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI have got to say that it was very interesting to see the scorn on Mr Brownlee face\u2014he usually has a staccato style; an on-again off-again, up-again down-again style of management in the House\u2014which could be directed only at the colleague who sits directly behind him; the Minister of Police. Poor old Gerry Brownlee had to get up, move the motion\u2014it took him two goes to do it, but hey, that is OK\u2014and actually take the hit for the Minister of Police. So that crew over there accuse us of politics\u2014very convenient. But that crew over there, of course, are always the ones who get up and demand accountability from everybody\u2014from beneficiaries, from all sorts of people in the community. They demand transparency. They demand accountability except, of course, when it comes to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIf you look at the litany of stuff-ups, the litany of mismanagement and negligence that this Government has engaged in, you see that Solid Energy, a State-owned enterprise was run into the ground while they were asleep at the wheel; you see the Mighty River Power botch-up\u201410 percent down the wazoo\u2014and you see the Meridian Energy share price stuffed up through their greed and incompetence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ENow, quite rightly, I come back to the bill, and, again, the Minister is asleep at the wheel. She did not ask the right questions even after a mistake was made. But there is a pattern here. If you look at some of the other portfolios\u2014as somebody yawns over there\u2014again, they were asleep at the wheel with Solid Energy. They made the mistake with the asset sales, but they did not learn from it. It was exactly the same as this. They made a mistake in 2009, and it has gone on again since 2009\u2014they never learnt from it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI just ask the Minister to explain, in the next speech she may give, why that is. Did she ask any questions? Did she have it on her checklist every 3 months to say: \u201CCommissioner, our staff are OK? There\u2019s no problem with the oath? There is no problem with the authorisation? I\u2019m not going to have to get down on bended knee to the Leader of the House in an embarrassing way and beg forgiveness and beg for a piece of legislation to be put through this House?\u201D. It is interesting, and I wonder what police are doing as they scratch their heads and look at the incompetence with which this Government carries out its activities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThis Government demands accountability from the police. It demands that they do their job and hit their targets even though their budget has been cut. The annual reports say that this crew have brought in 52 police since 2009. As my colleague Phil Goff said, we back the police all right. We backed them with 1,000 extra front-line staff. No ifs, no buts, no weasel words, we just did it\u2014we just did it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo I say to Miss Tolley that maybe she needs to go to do a ministerial course with the Cabinet secretary or something and get some advice on doing her job. If the standard of ministerial responsibility is: \u201CGee whizz, it\u2019s a bit of a mistake. Sorry it happened, but you know, it\u2019s not really our fault.\u201D\u2014and it is always the fault of the officials, of course; the Government is never responsible for anything\u2014then she ought to get a life herself, to quote Shane Jones about another Minister there, because there is a pattern here. They do not stand up and take responsibility for anything. Well, if they take responsibility\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f16c4a42e6c485f99d607810606f04b\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve taken responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022920013fa2a7243c198242b2c076a5256\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Do you? That is great. Well, in the next speech that the Minister gives, she might actually get up and tell us what she did, what monitoring she put in place, and whether she asked the right questions, because there was already a precedent of a stuff-up and a mistake back in 2009. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIt is a pity that Judith Collins does not take a call, because if there was ever a Minister who stands up and pontificates, and looks down her nose at everybody else with that familiar Tory sneer on her face, that sneer of betterment that she is better than everybody else, of course, it is Judith Collins. I would not mind a bit of accountability out of her. I would not mind a bit of accountability out of her in respect of her part in this\u2014her part in this. [Interruption] Oh yes, they are full of mouth when it comes to interjections, but they stand up and make 27-second speeches because they want to get out of jail on this one big time. They want to run away and hide big time on this\u2014even \u201CRuby Wax\u201D down the back there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022 data-id=\u00222130a75b3f614ade9b4952d2092f796c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222130a75b3f614ade9b4952d2092f796c\u0022\u003EBRENDAN HORAN (Independent):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a short call to say I support the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oath Validation) Amendment Bill through all stages today. I would, first of all, like to thank the Leader of the House, Gerry Brownlee, for consulting me prior to the introduction of the bill. If we do not pass this bill, there is a risk of consequences for current and past police investigations, prosecutions could be jeopardised, and there might be claims against the Crown. In supporting this bill we are backing the New Zealand Police and the maintenance of law and order. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00227a5233dc1be14da3b2a7af49aa18bcdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a5233dc1be14da3b2a7af49aa18bcdc\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I take a call on this very important\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022053f64a1d1e24693a1150d6bc8312a7e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. Is this a split call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226469e87b563b4b5c8d44d63b16f5dfb6\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: It is a split call. I understand I have 5 minutes, which I will fill to the full. This is a very important matter and we should not take it lightly. This Parliament should not take it lightly. My starting point is the principle of the rule of law. The rule of law starts with this House and its conduct and the laws that it passes, and when Parliament, with the power of the people, passes laws that bind and constrain the people, we require all those with authority under the law to act properly and within the authority conferred by this Parliament. If there is one group of people for whom acting within their powers is absolutely crucial and is the sine quo non of their job, it is the police. Their job is to uphold the law, not any law but our criminal code. Their job is to uphold the laws that affect our conduct and our behaviour. There is an underlying morality to our criminal code, and we expect our police to uphold it. But because we confer on them very coercive powers\u2014the powers to arrest and detain, to deprive of liberty\u2014we require them to act within their powers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis House has the job of passing laws, but this House has another job too. We elect members of the executive\u2014the Ministers who are in charge of departments and agents of the Crown. Parliament, having voted funding, having voted money, requires the executive to do its job to ensure that money, having been appropriated, is used for the purposes for which it is appropriated, but also that those who act under their executive delegation do so within the powers and the authority conferred by this Parliament, which itself acts in the name of the people of New Zealand. So when we find, not for a first time but for a second time, that some of those people within whom we charge the most serious powers\u2014powers that can constrain the liberty of an individual\u2014are acting without the appropriate authority and power required by this Parliament, we should sit up, take notice, and act with an appropriate level of sobriety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt is for that reason that it does pay for this House to take some time to pay some attention to it, and to give it scrutiny. This is a mistake that has happened. I do not accept it when people say that the police officers themselves should be somehow held responsible because they should know the law. Those police officers are reliant on their superiors exercising their powers and authorities appropriately, and that has not happened. It is not just a matter of 63 constables not having been sworn in properly but everything they have done in the execution of their duty, without this bill, would be invalid. That goes far and wide. That is not just arresting people. It is not just intervening in domestic disputes. It is everything they have done. Had anybody known about it and had there been some resistance, had those constables been assaulted in the course of their duty, because that is a common occurrence with our police force, unfortunately, and had that then gone before the court, then the police officers themselves would have been left with no protection at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI take my hat off to this Minister for bringing this bill back to the House. But the question must go really to what her predecessor was or was not doing. How is it that the mistake had been made once, but now it is being made a second time. That is where we can talk about the police, pass this bill, shore up their authority, and validate those actions. That is the sensible thing to do, but there must be some accountability. It is the Minister who has failed to act. It is the Minister who provides oversight. It is the Minister who ought to be asking the questions. And, having made the mistake once, I would have thought that any self-respecting Minister of Police would then continue to ask what has happened. Has the law been complied with? When that police Minister then becomes a Minister of Justice\u2014a senior Minister and sometime heir apparent to the throne of the National Party\u2014that failure runs even deeper. So we support the bill, but let us not deny that this is a very serious situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00223db648c2bd724b2ea0b2e7d574c3f7e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223db648c2bd724b2ea0b2e7d574c3f7e6\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Passing under urgency retrospective validating legislation is clearly a less than perfect situation. But from time to time, for a variety of reasons, this House is required to do so. We do not do it lightly. This is one of those occasions, and it gives me no satisfaction at all to stand and support this bill, the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill. My colleagues earlier in the debate have well set out the circumstances and reasons, and I am not going to repeat them. I support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d5ac59371d8742adbf12695d3455f21d\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002215b8ecb8279a47cdbc29079f44d77f03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215b8ecb8279a47cdbc29079f44d77f03\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. The Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill is validating legislation that will deem oaths of office taken by police employees rejoining the New Zealand Police between 13 October 2009 and 13 October 2013 to have been administered as though the persons administering those oaths had been authorised by the Commissioner of Police. It removes uncertainty about the conferral of constabulary powers for those police employees who purportedly took the constable\u2019s oath between 13 October 2009 and 13 October 2013. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThis Government is committed to effective public administration and to supporting our front-line police constables. This bill achieves these objectives by removing the risk that the actions of affected police employees can be challenged for the sake of it. The bill does not affect redress in the unlikely event that it is necessary for those whose rights might genuinely have been breached. This bill is a straightforward administrative provision that fixes a technical matter directly and cleanly. I thank the members of the House for their forbearance. I thank the members of the House for their support and their responsible actions here this afternoon. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00227435a31298ef4c1f801ec05afaa0ce05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227435a31298ef4c1f801ec05afaa0ce05\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to use my time in the third reading of the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill to really clarify what I think are the quite justifiable questions that Opposition members are asking here. This is not an attempt to politicise a situation that clearly absolutely needs to be rectified. There is no question. That is why it is being passed unanimously through this House. I can see Mr Sabin muttering over there with quiet, silent rage. He must be quite upset that he does not get to use his 10 minutes. Perhaps Minister Tolley might let him have his full 10 minutes for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI just want to clarify that Labour is not liberally spreading the blame across our police force, over the fact that we are having to deal with this issue today\u2014of course not. In fact, rightly so, we have acknowledged the work that the police do on behalf of all of us in our communities. It is an incredibly tough job in that we constantly ask of them to reinforce the notion that no matter how much disrespect they are treated with, they continually treat others with constant respect. That is what we ask of our police officers daily, and, by and large, they do an absolutely fantastic job for us. We acknowledge that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWhat we are saying here today is that, yes, an error was made back in the way that the original legislation, passed in 2008, was enacted functionally, on the ground. That was rectified in 2009. Usually, of course, under normal circumstances it probably would be unfair to say that the Minister of Police should have oversight of every single little individual issue that has been implemented in the 2008 Policing Act. Under normal circumstances, that would be a fair comment for the Government to make. But this was not a usual circumstance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe House went into urgency in 2009 to make a specific change, and retrospective legislation was passed to cover the fact that for a period one part of the 2008 Act was not implemented correctly. That should have been a flag then to the Minister\u2014in an area where she probably would not usually have functionally operated any oversight\u2014to just ask some questions. That does not interrupt the concept of constabulary independence, which is an incredibly important principle, just as is the independence of the judiciary\u2014very important principles. But we cannot blur the line between needing to maintain constabulary independence and ensuring proper accountability for a Minister who has oversight of the operational day-to-day functions of the police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBecause a set of unusual circumstances did arise, I think it is fair to say that at that point the Minister should have said: \u201CWell, look, OK, this law has been passed. Please, in my next briefing or update with the commissioner, at least demonstrate to me that the proper authorisations have been administered for those who are now giving out those oaths.\u201D Just one question\u2014one briefing. That is all it would have taken, and that is not unusual. Once a piece of legislation has been implemented, it is not unusual for a Minister to ask for an update on implementation\u2014absolutely not. Because this is one very specific question, it would not have taken much to ask for that. So I do want to highlight that, yes, constabulary independence is incredibly important, but I see that used as an excuse time and time again, when actually what we are asking for is simple ministerial accountability. We need to make sure it is applied correctly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIn my first address I spoke briefly about some of the things that are going on generally within the police right now. I think it is only right to mention that the Police Association members are at their annual conference as we speak, and it was a real pleasure to join with them last night at that event. But I would not want to leave the House with the view that the 63 officers since 2009 who have come back into the police force somehow demonstrate this amazing recruitment drive and increase in policing numbers. In fact, those 63 returning officers represent more, in terms of numbers, than what the police force has grown by in its entirety since 2009. In fact, we have had an increase of only 52 police officers, sworn staff, since 2009. Putting that into context, that is under a Government that promised New Zealand that we would have functionally one staff member per 500 New Zealanders. That means we should have had an extra 252 front-line officers, if that Government stuck to its word. But it has not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWhat the Government may claim is that, sure, we have got only 52 more officers, according to the annual report, but, of course, there are all the non-sworn staff and the various roles that they play. Let us be very clear about what has happened to non-sworn staff, who perform an incredibly important job on behalf of the policing family. They may not be sworn staff, but sworn staff see how important and know how important their role is. They are the ones who do all of the work that often frees up police to do that front-line policing\u2014those patrols that we expect of the police, and which the Minister claims they are doing more of. There are 234 fewer non-sworn staff now than in 2009. That means the burden of those tasks is now falling squarely on sworn officers\u2014234. That has not just been because people have left. Let us be absolutely clear. There was a restructure in 2012, which was extraordinarily unsettling for the police generally\u2014not just for the non-sworn staff. The sworn staff felt acutely the fact that the people who were supporting them in their work were restructured out of their jobs, asked to take early retirement, or asked to apply again in cities that were quite a distance even from where they were performing their duties at that time. I know it affected a number of police officers in police stations deeply and the volunteers who worked for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EOf course, we need to remember that there are a number of volunteers who work with our police force. I had the pleasure of knowing one of New Zealand\u2019s longest-serving police volunteers, Ian Jenkins, who served with the New Zealand Police in Morrinsville\u2014from memory, for over 30 years\u2014and did an incredibly stellar job. We cannot ignore that it is not just sworn police officers who play a role in keeping our communities safe; it is all the people who sit around them. I know that the police would want me to mention that, and want me to mention how unsettling that period was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EMr Goff has already talked about what that has meant regionally, and I think it is important to focus on it. When we use these statistics at a national level, it is easy to lose sight of what it means for a community. But in Counties Manukau 104 fewer police personnel is going to have a significant impact on a community like that, where, of course, our expectation is not that the police simply play a role of respond, inquire, and arrest. We, for a long time, have asked the police to form a much bigger role than that. In fact, their own commissioner has significantly changed the focus of the police with the notion of prevention first. We applaud Prevention First as an initiative. It is fantastic but it does require police to be able to manage their file and case loads of their major criminal investigations. Unless they are able to do that, it is very hard to implement this wider notion of prevention first. It is harder to ask them to do some of those early interventions and preventative work when they are doing just the day-to-day file management that they are required to do as part of their front-line duties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe all lose when we have a police force that is feeling those kinds of pressures on it. That is bearing out in some of the survey work that we have seen where the police have said that only a quarter of our cops claim to be fully engaged in their work, and the number that are leaving is significant. In 2013 the average monthly resignations have doubled\u2014have doubled\u2014since 2008. Clearly, these are police officers who are feeling the pressure of having less support around them, the increasing demands, and the fact that their budgets are barely keeping up with inflation, and this is bearing out in their ability to do the job that they signed up to via the oaths that we are now fixing today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThose are the issues that I hope the Minister continues to focus on. I think the questions we have asked today have been fair, and I would really appreciate a member of the Government benches clarifying some of those questions that we have asked. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4c956fb4e7842ca92a66b568f0c5a1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4c956fb4e7842ca92a66b568f0c5a1b\u0022\u003EMARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to clarify one thing. A recent Police Association survey clearly showed that New Zealand police are far happier and better resourced under a National Government than they were under a Labour Government. I just want to state\u2014and I am sure that Mr Sabin and the Hon Chester Borrows will support me in saying this\u2014that when the air force lost its strike capability we were pretty worried we were going to start losing our dog vans and patrol cars, under a Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EHelen Clark, the leader of the Labour Government\u2014I could not believe it; I could not believe it when she threw her Diplomatic Protection Squad under the bus. She threw the guys under the bus who are actually employed and are willing to do what they need to, and who put themselves on the line to protect her. And what did she do? The first opportunity that she had to stick up for her police, for the guys and girls who look after her, she threw them under the bus. That is what the Labour Party thinks of the New Zealand police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EMr Cosgrove can get up and spout on, and say how wonderful the police are. Yeah, they are pretty wonderful, Mr Cosgrove. But it is pretty disingenuous when you get up and you are part of a party that had a leader who was quick to throw her own personal protection officers under a bus. You should be ashamed. I am very, very happy to commend the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022a15ed67a91274f7e9072f0de11c64905\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a15ed67a91274f7e9072f0de11c64905\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I have got to say that those last comments by Mark Mitchell, frankly, were quite shameful. I know Helen Clark well. I worked with her for 18 years. I saw the way she related to and treated her diplomatic protection staff, and I think those people in the Diplomatic Protection Squad whom I know personally would be actually disgusted at the comments that somehow she belittled them or talked them down. Could I pick up another comment that has been made by Mark Mitchell, and it is that the police are far better resourced and are far better off under a National Government. Every time I meet with my local police or I go to the Police Association, they tell me exactly the opposite. They say: \u201CLook, our members vote right across the sphere, but you will not find a member who will not recognise the fact that it was a Labour Government that increased our police force numbers by over 1,000\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5c44f29fb75466e913f9e0e8a7eaf0b\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor\u003C/span\u003E: And New Zealand First.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022924920a37ad349c0b49b07308cda4d8d\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in conjunction with the New Zealand First Party\u2014by more than 1,000 extra front-line staff.\u201D Mr Mitchell, what is the record of this National Government? It has increased the number of sworn staff over 5 years by 52\u201452 against the 1,000 additional police staff that the Labour-led Government, working with New Zealand First, introduced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThen Mr Mitchell mentioned this: \u201CWell, we were worried about the air force\u2019s loss of the strike force and that Labour would take the patrol cars off the police force.\u201D I want to say to Mark Mitchell that it was under his Government that the patrol cars were cut back. That is on record. That is a fact. That is his Government\u2019s proud track record. Do not come at me about the Defence Force, because we know that the National Government has cut the Defence Force by 1,200 since 2009\u20141,200 or 12 percent\u2014and there are the highest attrition rates in the history of this country. Even in the police force we are seeing attrition rates that are double what they were 3 years ago. That does not indicate to me, Mark Mitchell, that the police are really happy with what this Government is doing. In fact, if the member listens to what Greg O\u2019Connor said this morning, he said: \u201COne thing that\u2019s really worrying us is that they have slashed the non-sworn staff down by 234, and what is the product of that? The product of that is that the officer\u2014man or woman\u2014who should be out on the front line is having to do the jobs that once upon a time were done by the non-sworn staff.\u201D That is not my comment as a politician; that is the comment of Greg O\u2019Connor, who has been once again re-elected president of the Police Association. I just want to clean up those particular remarks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EFor the public listening to this debate and hearing that this Parliament is now in urgency and passing the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill, a piece of legislation that will have retrospective effect, through all of its stages\u2014all of its stages\u2014they will be saying: \u201COh, no, not again. When is this Government going to get things right?\u201D. They remember the Crown Minerals Amendment Act earlier this year when exactly the same thing happened. Sadly, we had the same thing happen with the Policing Act earlier on. To paraphrase the words of Oscar Wilde, one mistake might be unfortunate, but a second mistake is careless. I want to ask the Minister of Police whether her predecessor was careless in not exercising oversight over whether this legislation was properly implemented, or where the nature of the fault lies, because in having to pass this legislation, we are letting people down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E First of all, Mark Mitchell, we are letting down the police, because how do you think it feels to be a front-line police officer who came back into the force after leaving to find that for 3 years they had been operating unlawfully because of a botch-up in the administration of the Policing Act? How do those police officers feel? You know how they feel. They feel terrible that they have been out there in good faith doing their job, only to find that when they were sworn in as a police officer in a ceremony that made them incredibly proud, it had been botched. They were not lawfully sworn officers and that is a disgrace. I have to say that normally I would not be in this House advocating that we support a piece of legislation that is retrospective and going through under urgency. But I have to say as a member of a party in Opposition, the Labour Party, which has always been responsible in regard to this sort of legislation, that we will pass this legislation because I do not want to see victims see the people who offended against them\u2014sometimes grievously\u2014getting off the hook and not being accountable for their crimes because of a botch-up in the administration of the Policing Act under this Government. That is why we are passing this legislation. We are passing it to protect the victims and to give back respect to those 63 unfortunate officers who have been working hard in good faith only to find that the rug was pulled out from under them because the Government did not get it right\u2014because the Government did not get it right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWhat I am really worried about is that this botch-up is symptomatic of a malaise that is now affecting the police force. Look, I do not care what the members of the Government might claim. When you have the number of sworn staff cut by 234, making it harder for the front-line staff to do their job, when the numbers of front-line staff are not even keeping up with the increase in population\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022420a99a36e5f4d0bb3ae1e7f1ab92d89\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Crime is at a 30-year low\u201417.5 percent reduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225283dce1dfef4cda85ed74c5567f0795\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: The ratios of police to population have gone down, Anne Tolley. They have gone down under your administration. At the Law and Order Committee you were finally forced to own up that the police budget has been cut in real terms over the last 2 years. You were forced to admit that. The Minister of Police was forced to admit that because the facts were there and her own officials said: \u201CYou\u2019re wrong, Minister.\u201D This Government is not increasing the funding, in real terms, for the police force; it is cutting it.\u201D That is on record. That is in the transcript\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022766e998de19c4c2c82a8c75ef3b78106\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: They never said that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c78d8cc14f00479482b32e67b9ef1897\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: That is in the transcript of the select committee, Anne Tolley, and the Minister cannot deny that. This Government\u2014Mark Mitchell, you were there\u2014has cut the funding for the police force. It has not kept up the increase in police numbers with the increase in population, and it has slashed the non-sworn staff to put more responsibilities and more work on the shoulders of the police officers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EOn top of that, it has done what every one of those members who fought in the 2008 election campaign promised they would not do. It has closed police stations. You know what those members said at the select committee? They said: \u201CWe haven\u2019t closed police stations; we\u2019ve closed kiosks.\u201D Do you know what a kiosk is? It is something that is three-sided with one side open to the public. It is not a police station. I have got the photos\u2014and offer to table them in this House\u2014of police stations that have been closed across Auckland by this Government, which said it would never do that. My police station in Mount Roskill South was closed to the public with a notice, which is now yellow with age, which says \u201CTemporarily closed\u201D\u2014temporarily closed for 8 months in breach of the undertaking that the Minister and the Commissioner of Police gave me at the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EIt is an absolute disgrace that the police should be put in those circumstances, facing these sorts of botch-ups, not having adequate levels of staffing, having police stations closed, and having the non-sworn staff who are there to support them being slashed. That is a poor record, Minister. The reason that crime came down in this country was the reforms, the increase in staffing for the police, the reforms of the law, and the reforms of the corrections system that happened under a Labour Government. I am proud of that, and I am glad to see the police doing their job well because we increased their numbers by 1,000. But this police force is getting no support from a Government that allows botch-ups like this to happen and allows police resources to be cut back. As for the money they are funded with, their numbers\u2014you know, Counties Manakau is an area that I and other members of this House know well. What was the cut in the police personnel numbers there, under this National Government? It was 104\u2014104 police personnel were cut from Counties Manukau, an area that has had traditionally one of the highest crime rates. The Government will not cut numbers in Remuera and Parnell, but it will cut them in South Auckland and Counties Manukau, because it does not care about the victims of crime, if those victims of crime happen to be people from low-income communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ERegrettably, we need this legislation. We need to put right the botch-up that has happened. We need to protect the police officers. We need to protect the victims of crime. That is why we are supporting this legislation, but it brings no credit to this tawdry National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u002225c573a2599c43a890e118d0caa1095d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225c573a2599c43a890e118d0caa1095d\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise once more with feeling, the second time in an hour or so, to express support for this Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill, albeit, dare we say it, grudging support. All of us would rather not be here debating this particular retrospective fix-it for a failed process. It is unfortunate that we are here once again, and we hope it is for the last time in this context. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe bill is, of course, the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill. I think it is worthwhile to reflect just for a moment on the nature of that oath that our police officers take as the last step towards becoming fully fledged constables and before they step into the role and actually start exercising those powers and duties of a police officer. I will not read the oath directly. That would seem wrong, because I think people earn the right to recite this oath, so I will paraphrase slightly. Essentially, it says that the constables\u2014the recruits, the officers coming into the role of constable\u2014swear to faithfully and diligently serve, effectively, the Sovereign, the Crown. This is because, of course, the police force is ultimately answerable not to the Government of the day but to the Crown\u2014to the head of State, not to the head of the Government. That is entirely as it should be, and I think it is worth recalling that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe constables go on to say that they will serve without favour or affection, malice, or ill will. They say they will, to the best of their power, keep the peace, prevent offences against the peace, and, to the best of their skill and knowledge, perform all the duties of the office of constable according to law. So that is a very profound statement. That is a very powerful, unequivocal statement. There are no weasel words within it. It is something that is clearly a very solemn oath, entered into solemnly. It is a great shame that for the 63 officers, the integrity of that moment\u2014that oath\u2014has been compromised by the administrative errors that we are seeking to retrospectively put right today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EAgain, the point has been made that the powers of a constable are significant. They have the power to detain, the power to arrest, the power to stop vehicles and search vehicles, and the power to search individuals in some limited situations. There are significant powers involved, such as a right to use reasonable force that goes beyond what a normal citizen can do. So these are not trivial matters. These are not trivial issues, and it is important that we acknowledge the importance and the significance of what we are doing today, and, indeed, the significance of the errors that have been made over several years, which we are now putting right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003ESimilarly, it is worth just reflecting on what a constable actually is. I think that the common understanding would be that constables are those sturdy men and women whom we see out on the front line, in the patrol cars, and on the street. But, in fact, every police officer remains a constable, from the Commissioner of Police on down. Every officer is a constable, so we are talking about the entire police force. They never relinquish those powers and duties and responsibilities while they are serving. As the principal legislation says, a constable is an \u201Cemployee who\u2014(a) holds the office of constable [and is appointed under whichever Act]; and (b) includes a constable who holds any level of position within the New Zealand Police\u201D. So it is not only, shall we say, the front line or the new recruits who are affected by this but, in fact, every serving police officer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI think it is worth reflecting on the fact there are at least 63 returning officers we are talking about whose swearing-in has been effectively invalidated by the error. I am speculating here, but I think we can safely assume, though, that at least some of those 63 returning officers would have some degree of seniority and would have some rank. So not only have they been performing their own duties but they would have been directing other officers, other units, to carry out duties, which, again, makes the problem even more severe. Effectively, the orders they have been giving, the instructions they have been giving to less senior officers, could be invalid, and that just creates all sort of a rat\u2019s nest that we really do not want to see untangled. It is important that through this legislation we put it right and validate what has been done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003ESo I think that in the absence of a Committee stage for this bill, we clearly have not paid much attention to the substance of the bill. I have to say that it is a model of brevity. The explanatory note is actually longer than the bill. It consists of four clauses. It has a title, a commencement date, it identifies the principal Act, and then it has a short paragraph that will be inserted into the principal Act, the Policing Act of 2008, which says simply that \u201CA Police employee who has administered the constable\u2019s oath described in section 22(1) in the period that commenced on 13 October 2009 and ended with the close of 13 October 2013 is to be treated as having been authorised,\u201D to administer that oath. That is the bill in its entirety. It is a very small bill, but what it does is actually important and significant, and we should attend to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI made the point earlier that I had written to the Auditor-General, seeking an inquiry from that office into how these mistakes occurred and how we can ensure that they do not occur again. I think it is worth just commenting that I am appealing to the Auditor-General under section 16 of the Public Audit Act, which is headed \u201CPerformance audit\u201D. Specifically, that section says: \u201CThe Auditor-General may at any time examine\u2014(a) the extent to which a public entity is carrying out its activities effectively and efficiently:\u201D, and clearly there has been an effectiveness deficit here. It goes on to say that the Auditor-General may also examine \u201Ca public entity\u2019s compliance\u201D with its statutory requirements, and clearly that goes right to the heart of what has occurred here, back in 2009. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe section goes on to talk about \u201Ca lack of probity or financial prudence\u201D. Clearly, there is not the least suggestion that the police have in any way transgressed against those parts of this section of the Public Audit Act. It is very much about the effectiveness, the efficiency, and the compliance with statutory obligations, and under those particular provisions I am writing and appealing to the Auditor-General to pick up this inquiry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIt may well be, and the expectation clearly is, that the responsibility for these errors will be seen to lie with the senior administration of the police force, but clearly it is also possible that some responsibility may be found to rest with the Minister of Police or, indeed, with this Parliament. Each of us as parliamentarians may need to bear some responsibility, and that is fine. That is as it may be, and if that is the finding of the inquiry, then so be it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe point is really that it is not a witch-hunt. It is not seeking simply to assign blame for its own sake; it is actually to ensure that we do understand. Clearly, there was a process failure here on at least two occasions\u2014serious failures of process, serious failures to fulfil what could be seen, on the face of it, to be the quite straightforward obligation to make sure that this was got right. It has not been got right, so the intention of an inquiry must be to uncover how this happened and to be as sure as we can possibly be that this does not occur again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003ESo with those words I will end my commentary, and I say again that we support this legislation. Nobody is happy about it, but it would be simply untenable not to see this retrospective legislation go through. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u00227fa7031c2a714a858809dacbddcd7d2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227fa7031c2a714a858809dacbddcd7d2a\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E I do reiterate my words from the second reading and the words of Minister Collins. I just want to spend a moment or two commenting on one or two other topics, though.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279901d769d5140dc9d38ae6e94546ccb\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Minister Collins? Minister Tolley!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218607b18bddc49a2bedae3b7237a2dc6\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE\u003C/span\u003E: Minister Tolley\u2014my apologies to the Minister. That has taken up a couple of seconds of my time. Shush! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI just do not get the Opposition\u2019s poor view of the work of our police. When this Government came into office we had some aspiration around the police and crime levels. We are now, after some 4 years\u2014or nearly 5 years, in fact\u2014looking at achieving as much as a 30 percent improvement in police front-line efficiency as a result of the new technology that was introduced this year. This, combined with an 18 percent reduction in crime that has been achieved by our Minister of Police and our Minister of Justice over the last 4 years, means, effectively, that our front-line police could well be more efficient by a factor of some 48 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EIt is typical of the Labour Party, desperate to score points. The world has changed, and it appears to have passed straight through the keeper on that side of the House\u2014in fact, the score is Bangladesh is nought for nought at the moment\u2014as has the fact that, on the whole, the public have good ears and do not need to be told the same thing time after time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI support this legislation, the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill. Although not happy with it, we have to support it. Good job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1db41cced584d9aa852e3772a237ac7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1db41cced584d9aa852e3772a237ac7\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E There have been some valid points made on both sides of the House with regards to this process. I think it has been impressed upon all of us that mistakes have been made. Certainly, it is important that the Opposition holds the Government to account in matters like this. But I think it is also important for us to remember that, as far as the public is concerned, nobody has sent us here to simply snipe at each other. Nobody has sent us here to score cheap points when there is important business to be done. We are sitting under urgency and I think that is a state in which the public wishes us to remain for as short a time as possible. I am sure that the importance of what has gone on has not been lost on those in officialdom. I am sure that if there are inquiries that need to be done, they will be done, and it will be investigated as to how the mistake came about. We will look to find ways of making sure it is not repeated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI do commend the Minister of Police for stepping up and bringing this matter back to the House, where the mistake can be addressed before it becomes a problem. I am very glad that it came to the Minister\u2019s attention and not to the attention of a criminal lawyer or some investigative journalist somewhere. I am glad that it did not blow up and cause a lot of cases to be revisited and a whole lot of people to be released from prison when they were, in fact, guilty of crimes. So without wanting to go over old ground, I say that, once again, we do not like having to be here under urgency\u2014none of us do\u2014but we understand that the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill has to go through, and the sooner it does so the better. We support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u0022b748d88f750a4517b591cc39396d87af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b748d88f750a4517b591cc39396d87af\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I would just like to endorse the comments that have already been made and, I guess, despite the fact that there has been a little bit of political ping-pong going on from some members of the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022939b9d4bc554487baea5e11bec26e8cf\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: The pong is over there!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fe5dffc61f0431f9a3fec7b37d4992b\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: There we go! There is one\u2014he has got a racket in his hand as we speak. I commend the fact that the House has taken this matter on board in the serious manner that it needs and deserves. The Minister of Police has rightly taken responsibility for this situation in so far as the Minister is responsible. But it is important to remember that in terms of operational matters, there are people who are directly responsible for these sorts of decisions, and the policemen responsible for making these errors would be the first to admit that. I think that should not be lost in this discussion, but I do acknowledge and commend members of the House for having found it in their hearts to ensure that this Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill is passed for the reasons that have been clearly outlined. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00229c7e76bf85f144b8927a57cca22ebbab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c7e76bf85f144b8927a57cca22ebbab\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The previous speaker, Mike Sabin, is right. There has been a bit of verbal ping-pong across the House. I am glad he maintains, unlike some of his other colleagues, a good sense of humour. I do want to address, just for the record, a bit of political bile dished out by Mr Mitchell around police funding and cars. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248e803897503400a9a5dd4eed00880bf\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Felicity Ferret. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bbd4e8ac5184024b778c100066fa454\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Felicity Ferret, my colleague says. I am not quite up to speed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022741a7ddbda3a4d778decd7fd976cd1d0\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Gossip columnist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270c6068062ed44dc83a52abaacdbeb8c\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: A gossip columnist\u2014ah, I get you. Mr Mitchell made a lot of comments about\u2014[Interruption] Oh, that has fired them up. There are a few columns coming out as we speak, I think. That has fired them up. They are awake now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMr Mitchell made a number of sort of derogatory comments about police funding and Helen Clark throwing the police under the bus and not supporting the police. He talked about police vehicles, which is very, very interesting because I was reminded by the former Minister of Police Mrs King\u2014and this might be a bit of a lesson for Mr Mitchell, if he is paying attention\u2014that when Labour came into Government in 1999, some of the police vehicles were 4 or 5 years old. These were not the commissioner\u2019s car or the plain clothes jobs; these were the front-line, eye car police vehicles. It was the Hon George Hawkins\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d16eb255950f434f9bdc45520efde91e\u0022\u003EMark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: At least Andrew thinks about what he\u2019s going to say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff3328589fd14093a0270f631c1f44b4\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I know that you do not like it. I know that he does not like it, but he is going to have to hear it. For the record, it was the Hon George Hawkins who, as Minister of Police, introduced the 3-year renewal programme for police vehicles. There were so many old dungers in the police fleet\u2014I am not calling those members dungers; I am talking about police cars\u2014that it took 6 years to renew the entire fleet so that the police could get in a car that could actually go over 80 kilometres an hour to chase the burglar down the road. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe got rid of things like cardboard cut-out police that you were supposed to stick on the side of the road or a street corner and somehow the burglar would take flight at the cardboard cut-out. Mr Mitchell or Mr Sabin may have been serving at the time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228caaa4e0d81e473c9d5e6988e00c9bb2\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: He may have been one of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c936ab4bcfe2425abd1c633abe433b33\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: He may have starred as one of the cut-outs, my colleague says\u2014who knows? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3f6fff4710f4e388ac8c4ddd5412e59\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: Not enough cardboard for this cut-out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270a0a29a46e44f18b9ce75f9a54cea65\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Sabin says there is not enough cardboard for his cut-out. I would not go there. But I just say to Mr Mitchell that I challenge that member to actually, if he wants to, in a dispassionate way, go and talk to the Parliamentary Library and do the research about who backed the police, the mess we had to clean up, the equipment\u2014you see, history repeats itself, because, of course, under Minister Collins, the cars were cut back. We were told that there would be no cutbacks in front-line cars, and yet in the area that I look after, one community policeperson in Rangiora was forced to chase after criminals in the local police van. Because it is a big van, the burglar goes down the road doing 120 kilometres an hour in the Holden V6, and there is the local community cop, chugging along in the old paddy wagon with a bit of smoke coming out the back, trying to do his or her duty. But they simply cannot do it because the old paddy wagon will not keep up. So I challenge any member over there, as they sit there and try to rewrite history\u2014rewrite history\u2014to challenge our record in terms of resourcing the police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EPutting that aside, we will support this Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill. We are supporting this bill, retrospective though it is. It is a serious issue in respect of this bill. Like other members have said, there are 63 constables out there who may indeed\u2014well, technically, they have, actually\u2014acted outside the law, not out of any intention on their part but because a technical issue has occurred in the authorisation of those who administered the oath. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThere is talk of politics and stuff and operational matters and all that, but I just come back and say again, as I said in my previous speech, that it is always very convenient for Ministers to quote operational matters\u2014and that may be technically correct\u2014but the question then is what you do as a Minister to ensure that those operational matters are corrected, and to ensure that those mistakes do not occur again. One thing you can do is that in our constitutional arrangements, no one can stop a Minister from demanding information, asking questions, demanding evidence and verification from their departments, monitoring, asking the right questions, and ensuring that officials have done what they have said they would do or administering certain operational processes effectively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E No one is going to shoot a Minister. No one in the community is going to have a crack at a Minister for actually asking questions and asking for verification\u2014was it Ronald Reagan who said \u201CTrust, but verify.\u201D\u2014and asking officials to verify that what they are doing is correct, especially when there is a precedent of a mistake that has occurred previously, especially when it was a high-profile mistake that occurred previously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EYou would think that as a Minister, Minister Collins or Minister Tolley\u2014whom I note in her speech in the third reading never got up and answered any questions. She said she was responsible in an interjection to me but never offered any explanation as to whether she asked questions about this of her department or the commissioner, or whether she had it in the weekly, monthly, or 3-monthly brief and said: \u201CNow, look, I just want to be assured that there are no problems here.\u201D She never offered any of those explanations, because, in truth, I suspect that she never bothered to ask. She never had it on the weekly, monthly, or 3-monthly brief. She just let it all happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut to be fair to her, she inherited a regime administered by the previous Minister of Police, Judith Collins, who has not taken a call either, of course. Judith Collins is known in this place for demanding the highest possible standards from everybody else, as are various Ministers on that side, apart from when it comes to themselves or some of their ministerial colleagues\u2014Mr Banks and Mr Dunne and others, of course\u2014but they demand accountability from everybody else. They demand accountability from beneficiaries. Fair enough. OK, that is cool. But they do not demand accountability\u2014they crow about it in this House\u2014when it comes to themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to Ministers opposite that there is an old-fashioned but still valid Westminster tradition that means that as a Minister on a quarter of a million bucks a year, with the big car, the warrant, the flash office, and a myriad of expert staff, when a department messes up, you do not sit there in a\u2014I cannot use the word\u2014less than professional fashion, shall we say, and blame the department. You stand up and say: \u201CI am the Minister. I take the hit and, by the way, if the bullet hits me when I get back to the department, it is going to bounce off me and ricochet round the department.\u201D You ensure that people who have made these mistakes are held accountable, and that it is fixed. It is not about vengeance; it is about fixing the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThese folks across here can dance around it all they like and commend Ministers for bringing these things to the House. What I would like to say to members on the backbench is that when they have a coffee or a beverage with the Minister after the House rises, it would be really interesting, especially the two former professional police officers who have served our community well, if they call her aside and say: \u201CMinister Tolley, how are you going to ensure that we do not have three strikes? What are you going to do?\u201D. Is there any advice that Mr Mitchell or Mr Sabin, having been police officers themselves, could give Minister Tolley on ensuring that processes are put in place and that this issue is fixed? Those members will not respond, but I will make this observation. I suspect that for the 63 sworn staff who have had this hanging over their heads, it would not be pleasant. Because you always lie awake at night and go \u201CHang on a minute. If I have done something and it is unlawful technically, am I going to end up in the cart?\u201D. That is a natural human reaction. You always sit there and just wonder \u201CWell, it will not be the bosses who get it in the neck because I was the person who\u201D\u2014for instance\u2014\u201Ceffected the arrest.\u201D If that arrest, as effected, is now deemed to be unlawful, it is not the commissioner or certainly the Minister or any of the people on that side who would end up in the dock; it is the sworn policeperson who has acted with the best intentions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo the question is where the buck stops. I say to Miss Tolley and Miss Collins that the buck stops with them. All we seek in this House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b102886ffdf4f3da03e1f6df57d127b\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, it stops with me. I\u2019m the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250db299762964f5d9fd1944a75d2eca3\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: And Miss Tolley says that, yes, the buck stops with her. Well, if that is the case, Miss Tolley, it would have been helpful during the debate to give us some reassurance, to tell us what monitoring procedures you put in place, and to tell us what questions you did ask of the commissioner. How this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e160e310163448ae8fe65be136d43a50\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: You should\u2019ve listened to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022747119a33d9a45b49faac656769a1a5f\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there was not much to listen to, I have got to tell you. That is all that this Parliament and the 63 police require. So although we support this bill, we do hope that we are not here in another year or two or in 3 months, helping this Government fix up its mistakes, and that this is yet another one that piles on to a steamy pile of political mistakes that fester away and ferment away in this place as this Government sort of withers and lurches to the next crisis and the next inward-looking internal problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00226979e11f30d34059ba55e51d420f37ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226979e11f30d34059ba55e51d420f37ab\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E I mentioned in my second reading contribution on this Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill that the passing under urgency of retrospective validating legislation is, absolutely, a clearly less than perfect situation. I think that all members in the House would acknowledge and accept that. But from time to time, for a variety of very good reasons, such a measure is required. We do not do it lightly. This is one of those occasions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ENotwithstanding the small element of political ping-pong that has occurred this afternoon, I want to thank members from across the House for their solid contributions and their understanding of the situation, because none of us are pleased to be doing this in this way on this afternoon. On this side of the House we support the police, and we do so with enthusiasm, notwithstanding the occasional mistake. I support this bill and commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022729d72e42d4f4d3bbb8cdc4b87370caa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022729d72e42d4f4d3bbb8cdc4b87370caa\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to make a further contribution on this very important piece of legislation, the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill. I noticed my parliamentary colleague Mr McKelvie in his contribution talked about the police, the police numbers, and the police record, but, of course, this is not about that. This is about serving police officers who have been let down by their hierarchy, which includes, in this case, the Minister of Police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI think that what underscores all of this is that the fault lies primarily in the political arena. The Minister at the time, the present Minister\u2019s predecessor, had known that there had been a previous issue with the swearing-in of new police officers because, in spite of the changed legislation, the practices of the police had not changed. The police commissioner was required to delegate the authority to administer the oaths and that had not happened. The then Minister, Judith Collins, knew that, and validating legislation had to be passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt beggars belief, if indeed it is true, that if that Minister, having been through that experience, and taken the time of this House to validate a whole heap of incorrectly sworn oaths then, did not require the Commissioner of Police in her regular meetings\u2014because she meets with the commissioner\u2014to assure her that the issue of his delegations had been sorted out and that the oaths that were being taken were being taken correctly and lawfully. That ought to have happened in the regular meetings between the Minister and the commissioner, and it is quite apparent that it has not happened. That is what beggars belief. That is why responsibility for this failure sits firmly at the feet at the ministerial level, and, I venture to say, as I said in my second reading contribution, at the feet of the Minister of Police at the time that these go back to\u2014that is, Judith Collins. It was her job to ensure that the oaths were being taken correctly, given the mistakes that had happened previously, and given that she was meeting with the commissioner. This is not an operational matter; this is a constitutional one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EOn the cusp of Labour weekend, I want to draw this comparison. One hundred years ago the streets of Wellington were caught up and fraught with one of the most tense, difficult industrial disputes in our history. In fact, it was described at the time that Wellington was on the verge of civil war. That was the Waterfront Dispute of 1913. What lay at the heart of that dispute? It was a whole bunch of special constables, who had been sworn in and were allowed to ride mounted on horses, carry batons, and exercise charges on protesting and striking workers, which is what they did. If they could get it right 100 years ago in one of the more disgraceful displays of coercive State power, it just beggars belief that in this day and age, this executive\u2014this Government\u2014cannot get it right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo here is the warning. For the second time, the time of this Parliament has been taken up with making sure that police oaths are done correctly. Let the word go out and say to this Minister of Police: \u201CIt must not happen again.\u201D This Minister must make sure that the present commissioner\u2014and his replacement when he is on board\u2014must guarantee that the oaths are taken properly, lawfully, and in accordance with the present police statute, because it would be wrong for the time of this Parliament to be taken up a third time to correct an avoidable mistake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EAs my colleagues have said, of course we will support this bill, because the consequences of not supporting it\u2014and the constitutional consequences\u2014are too grave to contemplate. But we do so with heavy hearts, not because we are critical of the police\u2014it is not their fault, apart perhaps from the police commissioner\u2014but because the executive has let down public servants in the form of the police. That is not good, and we should not allow that. We will support it, but let us not do it again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ELet us remember that\u2014particularly when it comes to the police, that very special force that occupies a very important place in our constitution\u2014we and the public demand that they get the exercise of their powers right. That is why, when there is a question about the exercise of their powers, it generates so much attention and so much press. We set a very high standard for our police. They are entitled to look to their political masters and demand the same high standard, and they have been let down. Let us pass this bill and let them get on with their job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002295849bfa95ea4350b65a0459f0a701e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295849bfa95ea4350b65a0459f0a701e6\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to take the final call from this side of the House on the Policing (Constable\u2019s Oaths Validation) Amendment Bill. Those before me have spoken at length about the requirement for this bill and the fact that we would rather not have had to take this step to validate it, but I do want to recognise the cooperation of all parties in the House in getting this bill passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI did feel a little sad that some took the opportunity to be critical of our police. When I stood here nearly 5 years ago and gave my maiden speech, I was very proud to be a member of a party that backed the police over criminals every time. This is another day for that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002286891814b1c343fd867374083e440c50\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb5a1490e14641ae86fa2d59a9c8393b\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022354c1cfb48bb405b89d39d3c5c141a01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022354c1cfb48bb405b89d39d3c5c141a01\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to seek leave of the House, since the urgency motion has concluded, for the House to rise at this time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022446db48ad03e44c4a1d027cb99175131\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022446db48ad03e44c4a1d027cb99175131\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 4.57 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20131024d670cc67c59645a6bf5cd604ad8f4b08000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"