"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002261c1bce71af04a20bbd4dda07777e908\u0022\u003ETuesday, 6 May 2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c85735587354a19bfc6aa478928602a\u0022\u003ETuesday, 6 May 2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aae805f061c148cdbe0a9f62fc5ab69f\u0022\u003ETabling of Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e7dae1b24a7f41518125071fc8b72823\u0022\u003EDrugs, Control\u2014Animal Testing of Psychoactive Substances\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00228950fc686a6a48ca89e8a5efef516a15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228950fc686a6a48ca89e8a5efef516a15\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E In order to record the position of New Zealanders opposed to making animals suffer to bring recreational drugs to the market, I seek leave to table a petition showing the names of more than 43,000 New Zealanders opposed to animal testing of so-called synthetic highs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00229911fad7e6af4190b12119cc350a059f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229911fad7e6af4190b12119cc350a059f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is an unusual way of doing things, but leave has been sought to table that particular petition. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be so tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002223279a848f7243619a7bc107bf57fc32\u0022\u003EAmended Answers to Oral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a31f2e861a6d4bc19b06927da13e7d3b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3 to Minister, 17 April\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002288cb963eacdd4e99b740bdff8f40e3a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288cb963eacdd4e99b740bdff8f40e3a5\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to make a personal explanation under Standing Order 354 to correct an answer to question No. 3 on 17 April this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00221b8fd636938e44a786ede3c705d1b22a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b8fd636938e44a786ede3c705d1b22a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that personal explanation. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002244af74a1f6bd4894927e50fdd6e09d59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244af74a1f6bd4894927e50fdd6e09d59\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E In making my answer to question No. 3 on 17 April, I said that after the dinner in Beijing on 20 October 2013, I went to bed. When Mr Robertson then asked me whether I had had discussions with the ambassador after the dinner, I said I could not recall any discussions. I now realise that although Mr Robertson\u2019s question referenced the time after the dinner, he could have meant at any time after the dinner, not just on the evening of the dinner. For the avoidance of doubt, I want to clarify to the House that on the day following the dinner, I told the ambassador that the dinner was very nice but very short. I also told him that nothing had occurred that was untoward or that he needed to know about. I am drawing this to the notice of the House at the earliest opportunity available to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d0f9cb0608394d6a9437f9baebaabbee\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f247141a5fc1481baa24a517ad2b1eac\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002294b463cd78244b548597b9f5b0544916\u0022\u003EEconomic Programme\u2014Budget 2014 and Environmental Policy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022 data-id=\u00222c6558bf5b6141d9a66c0c09eef9c039\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c6558bf5b6141d9a66c0c09eef9c039\u0022\u003ECLAUDETTE HAUITI (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: How will the Budget next week help to lock in the benefits of sustainable economic growth to support more jobs and higher incomes for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00227bf335e471454aaf916cb65457d0fd7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bf335e471454aaf916cb65457d0fd7b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Budget next week will set out the next steps in the Government\u2019s programme, which will build on the good economic momentum that New Zealanders have seen over the past year or so. It will show growing fiscal surpluses through to 2018, starting with a small surplus in 2014-15, and show debt beginning to decline as a percentage of the economy. Together with households and businesses, the Government will continue its programme of policy that supports the delivery of more jobs and higher incomes. We are seeing positive results. Employment is rising across the board. Wages on average are increasing ahead of the cost of living. Interest rates are near 50-year lows. The current account deficit is less than half what it was 6 years ago. Consumer and business confidence is high. Also, last week we heard that exports in March passed $5 billion for the first time, and annual exports exceeded $50 billion for the first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1e91b84720c4adb974df69de4c78b2d\u0022\u003EClaudette Hauiti\u003C/span\u003E: How is the higher growth outlook for the economy translating into higher wages for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e1aec3ffce443a199cddf52e5f2ef12\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Everyone\u2019s situation is different, and there are New Zealand families who are finding the economy challenging. But the benefits of a sustainably growing economy are tangible. Over the past 2 years the average full-time wage\u2014that is, by the measure used to adjust national superannuation every year\u2014has increased from $51,700 to $54,700, an increase of $3,000. Treasury\u2019s preliminary Budget forecasts show that the average wage will rise further to almost $62,300 by 2018, another increase of $7,600 over the next 4 years. The forecasts also show that around 170,000 more people will be working by 2018, at the same time as the average wage will be running $7,600 higher than today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5039dec4586477ea7efb852cb244541\u0022\u003EClaudette Hauiti\u003C/span\u003E: What other steps will the Government take in the Budget to help support sustainable economic growth, more jobs, and higher incomes over the next few years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221419d1d3769a4846956fa5512204994b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Two of the risks to the sustained economic recovery would be a blowout in Government spending and a runaway housing market. The Government is committed to thoughtful, targeted spending, not a large-scale spend-up, which would put pressure on interest rates for households and businesses. We will also continue to work to increase the supply of land and new housing to the housing market so that it can meet the unprecedented demand, particularly from the sharp turn-round in migration figures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e617db40496414daf39e2b64937320b\u0022\u003EClaudette Hauiti\u003C/span\u003E: What measures would erode the good progress made in helping wages to increase faster than the cost of living over recent years? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280dc75f2f67a449e89384ce773241722\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There are a number of possible measures, but I have seen one recently that involves cutting take-home pay by 15 percent, forcing New Zealanders into a compulsory savings scheme with contributions up to 15 percent. I heard a radio report yesterday where one person said: \u201CI probably have more mortgage debt than I\u2019ve got long-term savings, to be honest, so part of the way we save is to pay down our mortgage.\u201D That person was David Cunliffe, but he wants to take that choice away from all other Kiwis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfe58fc8c0af450c96d2cf0ea39ad78e\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Given that Treasury is forecasting that New Zealand\u2019s current account deficit, under his economic settings, will worsen in the coming years, is he concerned that his Government is simply repeating the same mistakes of the last four decades, with a worsening external deficit and whistling in the wind as more and more money flows into the housing market rather than the productive sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222eadf312e4ef436e8375dc61bb85164d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: We are certainly keen to avoid the mistakes of the last Labour Government, on whose watch the current account deficit doubled from 4 percent to 8 percent. In fact, Treasury does regularly forecast the current account deficit to get worse, but it keeps getting better, and I am sure the member will be keen to see that laid out for him on Budget day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222783cd8224cf4e2fb14ce9600599c781\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister understand that the ongoing damage being done to the New Zealand environment under the policies of his Government will undermine New Zealand\u2019s economic performance in the long term?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f5cef730455476db01fdaa3ce10b25a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, because the statement is incorrect. Under this Government, we have introduced regulation of the exclusive economic zone, which did not exist before. There was no environmental regulation in our larger economic zone in the ocean\u2014one of the largest in the world. It is now comprehensively regulated. Secondly, through a collaborative process, which a lot of the supporters of the member\u2019s party have participated in, through the Land and Water Forum, we are introducing comprehensive regulation of the quality of our fresh water. That has never been done before. It is designed to ensure we get the right balance between the use of our natural resources, our environmental quality, and our economic opportunities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022962a68ad1cab4b05a8398f501e17dfd8\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister understand that under the water regulations promulgated by his Government, New Zealand rivers can have 4\u00BD times as much nitrogen as the Yangtze River in China, and how does he think that will affect New Zealand\u2019s brand being clean and green?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f93a4400e1d241848447b392957dbe6e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not agree with that. There has just been an extensive consultation with the public and, prior to that, with all the interest groups that wanted to participate, about exactly what the standards of freshwater quality should be. Certainly there are some challenges, but there is general agreement on what those bottom lines ought to be and what exceptions there could be to them. We hope that the member will have the opportunity to support this Government in legislating and regulating for the first time ever for a comprehensive framework for the quality of fresh water in every water body in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6eef254bfae4befa5a908510986c1b2\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister understand that the water regulations his Government is proposing would make water so toxic that it would not be safe to swim in, and it would be safe only to wade in because it is a wading standard rather than a swimming standard, and how well does he think that will go down in our export markets for our \u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D, \u201Cclean, green\u201D brand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022364d9960c8504d17ab04a65326fe6758\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member is trying to dramatise this issue for his own political benefit. The fact is that we are setting up a process that will allow New Zealanders, community by community, to grapple with the hard issues of what the quality of their local freshwater supply ought to be. The member\u2019s description of the existing or proposed quality is simply wrong. There has been plenty of public debate about this. There will be plenty more. In the end, it will be decided community by community, consistent with some national bottom lines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a909657358714510b1a79f187dc17cd4\u0022\u003EMinisters\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u002236f04af1676b4a3a95ef9189d234971e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236f04af1676b4a3a95ef9189d234971e\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he have confidence in all his Ministers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f29d9954512e465f9e11105ad6cc1d86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f29d9954512e465f9e11105ad6cc1d86\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dd96b858c8e48e1917e4918f5daaaea\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Does he have confidence that all of his Ministers agree with his approach to Maurice Williamson\u2014in that Maurice Williamson \u201Ccrossed a line\u201D by calling the police on behalf of Donghua Liu\u2014given that the Minister of Justice, Judith Collins, on the weekend blamed Mr Williamson\u2019s fall not on the actions of Mr Williamson but on the media?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022096f123a0f7a46eaae959872fbb428ad\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, yes, I do. In answer to the second part of the question, I think the member has got that incorrect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f5df2f187554d0ea97ff1691c5f4512\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister of Justice attack the media and blame the media for Mr Williamson\u2019s downfall, when clearly Mr Williamson intervened in a live police investigation regarding domestic violence issues in order to try to assist Mr Donghua Liu and help him avoid prosecution?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1188da1c1714fb2beccfd0ed8947924\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I think, as the Minister herself has said, due to a series of allegations made that she believes are false, she overreached. In that regard she has apologised because she made a mistake. But, mind you, that member made a mistake when he went grovelling up to the Dotcom mansion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222afbca36fa4145c98cc81c1a4ccc5c46\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbd295b7f7054f88a470d515a03aff0f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8c76d3804014f0ca954a64c71e76865\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! This is a point of order. It will be heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef1bf923f04e4058850d46ffd8f8db51\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Are you going to allow the last part of that prime ministerial answer to stand? Can he just keep on doing it at the end of every answer today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d83ce9ad6ff94b09854f14c53a12444a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was an unhelpful remark from the Prime Minister. The problem is that it was at the end of his answer. I could have thought about asking him to withdraw it. I did not think that was necessary\u2014this is, after all, a debating chamber. But such quips from any Minister giving answers do not help the order of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b76edada74294d8385297353feb69b78\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Do all his Ministers understand that New Zealand democracy is not for sale, given the repeated pattern by his Ministers in acting\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022323754e59cb14c43b7096daaae3a8869\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member has a right to ask his question, provided it is within the Standing Orders. The member can start his question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3c1c6afb6ea4b30ba0ae39201c9cf48\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Do all his Ministers understand that New Zealand democracy is not for sale, in light of the repeated examples of his Ministers intervening on behalf of donors to the National Party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ed377983aaf4823939872907889359c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we do, and I would make the point that the National Party records all of its donations and it makes sure that they are in the public domain, unlike, say, the Leader of the Opposition, who has got a secret trust that we do not know about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b2323148d6742b891a98a077a5b5c5f\u0022\u003EJustice, Minister\u2014Performance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u00221f9e1bcda3314091a3a81ca462ea6e62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f9e1bcda3314091a3a81ca462ea6e62\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Has Hon Judith Collins failed to meet the \u201Chigh standards\u201D he expects from Ministers; if so, how?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddf0d05690e446ce9a6182ff75d28403\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddf0d05690e446ce9a6182ff75d28403\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E No. Over the almost 6 years Judith Collins has been a Minister, she has made a significant contribution to the Government and the people of New Zealand and the portfolios that she has held. The House will be aware that in her recent actions in respect of Oravida she put herself in a situation where a perception of a conflict of interest has arisen. The Minister accepts this and she has apologised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259714a31d9bf4da8abab6e75c872b7c5\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister remember giving Judith Collins a final warning about misleading by omission; if so, on what basis did he give that final warning?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227de1948460c34ccba92d29759ea0eeb8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: It was in relation to the Oravida situation. I said there was other particular information. I have not seen any particular information come out, although I am waiting for the secret donors of David Cunliffe to come out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264fa6e8ceac747ae978bc3f696035249\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister consider that Judith Collins misled the media with her comments about Television One journalist Katie Bradford; if so, why is she still a Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c87d69448c744aeb066cbac007fa445\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is trying to relate that to the other issue, as I said, that was in relation to Oravida. In relation to the comments that the Minister made about Katie Bradford, she has apologised for that. She herself has admitted that she overreached.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225689ecd2830c46218ca2a7ee70cf5769\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Prime Minister\u2019s Cabinet Office aware of all the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade advice and briefings relating to Judith Collins and Oravida when it provided him with advice on her conflict of interest?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c272d92e65e4fccbaf6ca4909a8d477\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am confident that the office is aware of all the pertinent information on the advice that it relayed to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d70c564625ce461996d797d4374f1e71\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: When, therefore, did he first become aware of the official Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade briefings, which said that Judith Collins appeared at Oravida in China \u201CTo increase the profile of a successful importer and distributor of New Zealand products into China.\u201D\u2014i.e., an official function and not a private function?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286faad2f33104cf4ba381b51d6d74100\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, I do not have those details with me, but I am happy if the member wants to ask me in writing for that. But what is actually quite interesting about the documents that the member is reading from is, in fact, that laced all the way through them\u2014and not only in relation to the very busy schedule that the Minister had in relation to the justice portfolio\u2014it was quite clear that this was a private dinner, and that was all the way through the emails, long before this issue ever came into the public domain. The one thing I do know is that lifting the profile of companies is very important. And Shane Jones believes in that; the Labour Party does not. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dde3ca993ce4a879afd26cd88fde84d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dab2def55cb944c3a3c102c5ed677ab5\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Prime Minister holding this Minister, the Minister of Justice and a trained lawyer, to a lower standard than he has held the Hon Maurice Williamson, when that Minister, amongst other things, has publicly countermanded his decision about Mr Williamson?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220afc1ae55ce0469c8f0a7ab7f1160574\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am not. I think it will be quite clear to everyone. In the case of Mr Williamson, he breached paragraph 4.14 of the Cabinet Manual. As I said, in relation to Ms Collins, she had a particular issue where the accumulation of events could have led to a perception of conflict of interest. But let us be honest about this: if your making a mistake means you are gone, that leader should have been gone a hell\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223597ed10bdf54b32b6ff254224783c2d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] When I rise to my feet, the Prime Minister should resume his seat. [Interruption] Order! It would be a shame if some Ministers had to leave the House so early in this new session.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4fd98eff5d447d3aa573222a9255b7f\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, was the Prime Minister willing to sack Maurice Williamson, Phil Heatley, Peter Dunne, and John Banks, but not Judith Collins? What is it about the Minister of Justice that he will not touch\u2014is it her fund-raising ability or is it her influence in the caucus?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ead666ec0bae478ba3d9473487977b08\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: One thing that the member might want to learn if he wants to be an efficient leader is that, actually, every case is considered on a case by case basis. This Government has set high standards, and, yes, where Ministers have not met the standards, they have gone. But, then again, when he does not meet the standards, people go as well. It is called Shane Jones. He has gone from Labour\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bee67b7402446459310fc1b102b8acb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022159c7639212349daa2367f5d1cc05445\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, can the Prime Minister tell the House why he has said that the rules of the Cabinet Manual have now become guidelines?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289e939158399400aa969b98ed3dcdf62\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, to be honest, I was paraphrasing Helen Clark. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022320a3ad0376d4ea7b59b538f258b1eb9\u0022\u003EExport Sector\u2014Performance and Business Growth Agenda\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u002255330f31690848908a194c039f049597\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255330f31690848908a194c039f049597\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Development: What recent reports has he received on New Zealand\u2019s export performance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1d50061300e43498e21d671790dccfa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1d50061300e43498e21d671790dccfa\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E I have seen the recent Statistics New Zealand overseas merchandise trade report for the first quarter of this year. I am pleased to announce to the House that March 2014 was a banner month for New Zealand exports. Exports rose by 15 percent compared with March 2013, exceeding $5 billion in value for the first time. There was a trade surplus of $920 million, the highest ever for a March month. Indeed, in the March quarter there was a trade surplus of $1.1 billion\u2014the highest surplus for the series\u2014and it was equating to a trade surplus in the last 6 months of almost $2.5 billion. Our current account deficit is now down to 3.4 percent of GDP. In 2008 it averaged over 8 percent. So the recently rumoured export crisis seems to be about as big a problem as the much talked about manufacturing crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f1e12856cbe4c609247972a86de8354\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to grow new and existing markets for New Zealand exporters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aa1dccd4e294741b597596c8338884b\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: As part of the Government\u2019s comprehensive Business Growth Agenda, we have set an ambitious target of increasing the ratio of exports to GDP from 30 percent to 40 percent by 2025. A big part of achieving that target is developing new and existing international markets for our goods and services. For example, trade between New Zealand and China has grown dramatically over the last 5 years. The Minister of Trade, Tim Groser, has made excellent progress, signing the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Agreement, overseeing the development of trade between New Zealand and Chinese Taipei, and advancing negotiations for the Trans-Pacific Partnership and the comprehensive regional partnership and free-trade agreements within the India, Korea, and the Gulf Cooperation Council. When you are developing exports, there is no substitute for hard work\u2014and it is certainly not fiddling around with KiwiSaver when you do not know what you are doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f67ced4ee2c24d36bdaad606936d5398\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he seen on New Zealand\u2019s export performance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227761d33e8d4348bc9ea1ff2cd5d2282f\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I saw a report as recently as last evening from a commentator who suggested that New Zealand\u2019s positive export performance was down to just two industries: logs and dairy. I am pleased to advise that commentator that he is quite wrong. For example, the value of our high-tech manufacturing exports has grown from just $100 million in 1990 to $1.4 billion in 2012, exports of IT services have increased by 11 percent per year since 2002, exports of computer and information services have increased by 85 percent since 2006, and wine exports have increased from $300 million a year 10 years ago to over $1.3 billion in the year to March. These are amazing achievements from these new and growing industries, and can I suggest to that commentator that he go and see some of them, rather than get his information from that noted economic soothsayer David Parker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002213725d71fd3642f18fc8902e75a2f5e4\u0022\u003EJustice, Minister\u2014Visit to China\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022664377dd558b443e88f9841fff60ec93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022664377dd558b443e88f9841fff60ec93\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Does she stand by all her statements regarding her relationships and interactions with Oravida Ltd?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbbcfe157ab94ddda03184d48aed0c81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbbcfe157ab94ddda03184d48aed0c81\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aadc0ad6d065442f941ff5c58e4983d9\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement in this House on 19 March, in reference to her visit to Oravida\u2019s headquarters in Shanghai: \u201CThe only other choice was either to go to the airport, or to go to Oravida and then to the airport.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280527d4f70a34004aebf8a25429065f0\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I think it would be correct to say that I could have gone back to the hotel for a small dinner and then gone to the airport as well, or any other combination of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d2a0a65cf4749a8bf2880d2e590d218\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table a document from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade from 9 October that is a timetable for the Minister of Justice\u2019s visit to Shanghai, which includes, at the time she ended up going to Oravida, a business and law round table\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223de9e98028ad4aeb9e2e13902bde76bc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The document has been well described. Leave is sought to table that particular document. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0705895813f43b0ac5b4e90d0ee2ea5\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: How can she say that the only option was to go straight to the airport or to Oravida when the programme for her visit actually had a business and legal round table in the timeslot that was used for her visit to Oravida?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a0649b91ded4ada947627f2486c7981\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Half a million dollars for the family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022711c8bba450d48c2ad09f6b50301cb40\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I take exception to that comment. I would like to have it withdrawn, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210df1586328f41b3a8fd27fc25f8f0ea\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has taken offence to the interjection that came from the Hon Trevor Mallard. Would he stand and withdraw that comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237e33e9701c74455b2bde8707b491325\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d334a7ab3f341a6ae1399bb4ca5781d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! We will deal with that afterwards. I have asked the member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dccd274f0a8344aeaf1b18a130667ed7\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not going to withdraw, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2261ddea96146bcb32805db6fd5040f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That puts us in a very difficult position, where I have no choice but to then ask\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f359e0d2e3c5463ab8e6abbba59ecd41\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It was not an unparliamentary comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f03597c06bf4b9d8760ddd7817bfb43\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! No, the member alluded to a substantial amount of money being the benefit to the family. The Minister has taken objection to that, I think, with justification. I will ask the member once more to stand and withdraw that comment. If not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224beaf960996548eaba1b7b138ab12022\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I will not withdraw the truth. Her\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203fdbd076cee41aab069583ffb777eb0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Hon Trevor Mallard will leave the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard withdrew from the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c9be1eb3dfa4f9ab0f3a53259b31da9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Did we get the supplementary question? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f7068a82af9440cba61f2bb7fe943ec\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Given that she was in China as Minister of Justice, why was a business and legal round table removed from her programme and replaced at her request with a visit to Oravida?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afbbe4747a264bddbd6942f2dacdb20f\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: The member is wrong in that question. The document that he refers to is one of a draft of itineraries prepared\u2014I think it was on 9 October, he said\u2014by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade. That meeting\u2014or that dinner\u2014did not go ahead, and that was not actually at my request.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022677aae5635cd4a69a7484dca49c208d6\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table a document from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade that shows that the request for the visit to Oravida came directly from the Minister\u2019s office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228de4bbacc7aa47838066928e4bdfd831\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a different thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215a5593fb72f44feb61df90e2675c07b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It may well be a different thing, but leave has been sought to table that particular Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade document. I am going to put the leave. The House can decide. Leave is sought to table that particular document. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc8c3b2735774363804f5ce7bfd39a76\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Why does he not just save us a bit of time and table the whole Official Information Act papers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288640ee095b54ea590574d43cdaaefad\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is not a legitimate point of order, and the Minister knows it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cdff45c499b4fe999ceae6ae8e3d24a\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: How is it consistent with her responsibilities as a Cabinet Minister for her to remove a justice-related visit from her programme and to replace it with a visit to \u201Craise the profile\u201D of a company that her husband is a director of?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245c224200f064661adfc78d6aac8f7cb\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I utterly and totally reject the allegations made in that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad3ca2a973384e5b821725b68de716c3\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Did her programme provided by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade include a business and legal round table, which was replaced by a visit to Oravida at her request?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d03d95072224a14a8ce949104f4df4c\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Of course no. The draft itinerary at one\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229248cff7997243c3831e16017e2c8fb1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Minister has been asked a question. She must be given the opportunity to answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afd0c4d33f8940a482dd742514091704\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: No. It was very clear that this was one of a range of items that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade had suggested in a draft itinerary weeks before I attended in China. The fact is that I at no stage required it to be removed, and that member is quite incorrect in his statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0a596e2ce924c4cad258d9f50c4c200\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Why was it necessary for her to tell the New Zealand ambassador that \u201Cnothing untoward\u201D occurred at a private dinner?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d42f9fb3214449bb83c33b2475aac24\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: It was, of course, not necessary for me to do so, but I did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb583a19211244efa3ae00486c572759\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: What was it that led her to believe that it was necessary for her to tell the New Zealand ambassador that nothing untoward occurred? Was it the presence of someone at that dinner whom the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade was so concerned about that it still provided her with briefing notes about that person?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022676194cac4954f6ba196f6026e634c71\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: That member has again stated some matters as fact, which are not fact. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade did not give me a briefing about the friend of Mr Shi who was at the dinner, and the member is quite wrong to say so. It did not give me a briefing on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c409d8cad8694e218ad133d51f5af3bb\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table an email exchange between the director of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade\u2019s North Asia division and the New Zealand ambassador, providing notes for a person who was to be at the dinner\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0c19d4b4cd1400dbe76378576f0f4cb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cdafbebf7ea4934b5a1a75fb7581d7b\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: The notes were provided on Friday, 18 October.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b366b348c67e4ac88724c4136972acbe\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That document and email trail has now been well described to the House. Leave is sought now to table it. Is there any objection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022799d9b16f43d444c9c5049b267932cbb\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as long it\u2019s what it actually says\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227343426dab634aa48a622e344a85b3c9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! It has been well described by the member. I am putting the leave. The House can decide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246ca58726e524c8fa490e76ae53323a1\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Not accurately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c42ed9fb9e5481f96c89d66f3647c22\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if the member is misdescribing something he is seeking to table, that would be a serious offence that would be subsequently dealt with. Leave is sought to table that email trail. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022490f4975b7c14e12b560ac41b2a0fd07\u0022\u003EFinancial Services\u2014Budgeting Services and Community Finance Initiative\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u0022698e9b881f214af1864e445ccde4ba0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022698e9b881f214af1864e445ccde4ba0e\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E To the Minister for Social Development: what recent announcements has she made about the Government\u2019s\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed3e55b089cd4848abd70a5225b1dbe1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed3e55b089cd4848abd70a5225b1dbe1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise to the member. We have got a bit of excitement down here on my right. I am calling Alfred Ngaro.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u00223f965ba6d4b64ef8af0ee7a2ebb39de6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f965ba6d4b64ef8af0ee7a2ebb39de6\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: What recent announcements has she made about the Government\u2019s support for budgeting services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00225f5e37affcfc461688cdd5ff01e7ced8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f5e37affcfc461688cdd5ff01e7ced8\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday the Prime Minister and I announced $22 million in new funding for budgeting services over the next 4 years. Budgeting services provide critical help to thousands of Kiwis, who are able to make a real difference to their own lives by developing good money management skills. As a Government we are committed to helping people to help themselves, and it is far better for people to learn and develop budgeting skills by the great work of these many non-governmental organisations. This injection of funds represents a 61 percent increase in funding for the sector by 2015-16. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec313a6087574d3aa9d76b8eb576edfb\u0022\u003EAlfred Ngaro\u003C/span\u003E: What other announcements has she made about assisting people on low incomes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228df3235504bd49b4b82f74c693ec315b\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yesterday I also announced a partnership between the Government, the Bank of New Zealand, Good Shepherd, and the Salvation Army to provide low-income people with no or low-interest loans. Too often, people who can least afford it are tempted into high-interest loans that they cannot pay back, and, as a result, get themselves in real trouble. The BNZ is putting $10 million into the programme, which provides a real alternative to those dodgy lenders. Low-income people will be able to get loans to pay for things like cars, which are a particular area where they need the loans. [Interruption] The Labour Party members do not like it, do they? They could not do it. They could not actually help people who do need assistance who are on low incomes. They just sit there and snipe, snipe, snipe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c3ea1750efb4f5baf4befbd05f6d7a2\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: We came up with it first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223af0ddd540a74746bfb8024e3d14215d\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I will tell you what. This Government is making a difference for those very low-income people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cec6b57befbb4cfc8b948bd8b466f526\u0022\u003EAlfred Ngaro\u003C/span\u003E: Why are these two initiatives important for people on low incomes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ea8cbf9c6404fe882930d5016441723\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Both of these initiatives have the ability to make a real difference in those people\u2019s lives. There is no denying that it can be hard to survive on a low income. But, instead of the victimising and sympathy we get from the Labour Party, this side of the House is making a real difference to those people and in their lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b822ecb18d44aac982bca53a44198f5\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This was a question from the Government benches to the Minister, and twice the Minister used it as an occasion to attack the Labour Party. The Minister has no responsibility for that, and it is particularly egregious because it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3ed2dc458294a00be70e4638e026417\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I have some sympathy for the point the member is raising. The difficulty was that, in actual fact, the Minister, through her answer, was then responding to quite a level of interjection coming from the Labour Party. If members start interjecting, they are likely to get a political response back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229777015ff5664272b13215ab8bc0e222\u0022\u003EFamily/Wh\u0101nau and Sexual Violence\u2014Support for Victims\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022130972de55654d569f5312a013a04f85\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022130972de55654d569f5312a013a04f85\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Does she stand by her statement \u201Cwe need to encourage these women and children to be comfortable coming forward to report domestic and sexual violence\u201D; if so, what has she done to encourage women to report domestic violence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002243be9cdcc88b458091b76c7adcfb54a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243be9cdcc88b458091b76c7adcfb54a0\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Yes; the Government has already achieved significant progress with improving the support for victims of domestic and sexual violence. As a result of the $50 offender levy, $12.6 million has been collected since July 2010. There are 15 new grants and services available to victims, including discretionary grants to support victims of sexual violence and funding for the national Sexual Violence Survivor Advocate, as well as specialist victim advisers to provide assistance for parents or caregivers who attend court to support child witnesses. As Minister of Justice I have initiated a major work stream, which is nearing completion and which will include a range of further initiatives to provide better support and access to justice for victims of domestic and sexual violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d90cd9122d4647e0bae8d7c07f42267f\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: Will women feel encouraged to report domestic violence when they see her, the Minister of Justice, defending Maurice Williamson\u2019s interference\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ade307f6781241a498c003ce60a79ef7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! That question now has no connection with the primary question. I do not want to take supplementary questions away from the member. I invite her to ask a question that is in relation to the primary question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f2b37222be741f78789b18ae7e5db52\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022388c44e7765c47c9a713fb5a04b30eb2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I cannot take three at once. I will not take any; they have all sat down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fe0132644b94f6388d8c0ed650730ff\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My initial question was relating to encouraging women to report. My second question was whether women will feel encouraged to report, based on the leadership provided by that Minister. It was directly relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286a23e34ea2447bdae09a1fbfedc27c5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member simply asks that question, it will be in order, but when it is a reference to a resignation that has occurred, etc., that is not in order. So if the member wants to stand and ask the question that she has just raised in the point of order, it may well be acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3a8e8437a7342349d9e59277917f478\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: Will women feel encouraged to report domestic violence when they see her, the Minister of Justice, providing leadership in domestic violence, supporting a Minister\u2019s interference in a police case?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022371d48d7577a4f5a9650caa55e1c7728\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I gave the member one more chance. She was on the right track until the last part. I will give her only one\u2014[Interruption] Order! I will give her one more opportunity. Otherwise, we will move to the next question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed2bc9cae19746b4bdabef4d83b9f84a\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would ask you to reflect on that ruling you have just made. The question from Jan Logie was a broad statement around domestic and sexual violence. She has asked a question of the Minister. I cannot understand why her referencing a matter that is in the public arena rules the question out of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212d79b7d237b4ff494ed57ed9d357608\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member might not understand it, but I invite the member to look very carefully at the Standing Orders\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6b9a8244df74b56815bae9d1f0ce0b9\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Which one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a93a465234c4d52b001d975468b89b5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, 384, if the member needs it, and I invite him to read it if he wants to. Supplementary questions are at the discretion of the Speaker. I have been very patient with the member. I will give the member her last opportunity. Otherwise, we are moving to the next question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa823be3eb6747f3ad8172a7d35d2372\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: Will women feel encouraged to report domestic violence when they see her, the Minister of Justice, providing public defence in relation to a high-profile case of domestic violence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226632f35e2a4645d7b13bd1f66ddd947a\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Of course I have not done that. What I have done is to say that the Prime Minister was quite right to receive the resignation of my colleague Mr Williamson in the circumstances. I have also, at the same time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272ef7ff84c5d4789b2459da09c7afc78\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbb3d2a672194ce4ba710c3c76842ccc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise to the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9b77736e34a4960a44145c14665b058\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: On three occasions you found that the original question was erroneous or outside the Standing Orders because of a reference to a certain case. Now you find that the Minister of Justice is quite within the borders of the Standing Orders, having referred to the case that you ruled out from being referred to in the first place. Can we have some consistency here, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022602c6101b4b54ea0af4e10b9de17d56a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I would have thought the Minister\u2019s answer was helpful to the House, but if the member is objecting to the answer, then I will curtail the answer and we will move on. Are there further supplementary questions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9ecfa13a8554dedbbbf1d3b54f8ce37\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: If tackling domestic violence is a priority, why has the Ministry of Justice funding for family and domestic violence services dropped under her Government from $8.7 million in 2010 to $7.3 million in 2013, despite an increase in family violence arrests last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f5361add5e942248f5fa47b6ef701f4\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: These days we take much more of a cross-Government approach to the funding of domestic violence and sexual violence. In fact, I can tell the member that the Ministry of Social Development is also contributing to the funding. Also, in addition to that, another portfolio, accident compensation, has spent\u2014I think it is, from memory\u2014around $40 million a year on sensitive claims resulting from sexual violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221622a6383bf148c2891372a64e7f23dc\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a report compiled by the library showing a decrease in funding from the Government, from the Ministry of Social Development, as well as the Ministry of Justice, as well as the It\u2019s Not OK campaign\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295f1370c2a154cb09429785e6282a27e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! It has been well described. On the basis that it is not freely available to members, I will put the leave. Leave is sought to table this library report on a funding trend. Is there any objection to it being tabled? There is none. It can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa993ce8b80f456b99a3f4e492a6d4ca\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: How can women feel comfortable reporting domestic violence when Ministers have slashed funding for family violence and used their power to help a man charged with abuse simply\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3182fddc9e34fef9b65c08147f11049\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Again, we are right back in the same position we were earlier. I will invite the member\u2014[Interruption] Order! I will invite the member to re-ask her question. I suggest that if she just keeps it to the first part, it will be in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225df865f6a84c453c819f7edbe010f430\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister of Justice herself introduced the Mr Williamson case. That is what the Minister did. It is now on the record. We now have a right to respond\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250427b7709844885b95d8d7fec1711f5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! A member sitting not too far from the member took objection to the Minister raising that. On that basis, I curtailed the answer. [Interruption] Order! We can move on very quickly. I have been exceedingly patient with the member. I will ask her, if she wants to ask further supplementary questions, that she does it according to the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fba30f3b36fd4acfa007f2e0af873399\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: How can women feel comfortable reporting domestic violence when Ministers have slashed funding for support, prevention, and treatment services, and lost their way in terms of providing political leadership on the importance of a consistent response to domestic violence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022325c7b6a127d441a951d0350b4753d99\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the allegation in the second part of that member\u2019s question. I can say to that member that this Government is deeply committed to bringing an end to domestic and sexual violence. In fact, that member well knows and many people in this House will well know that there are people in this House whose close family members have been killed as a result of domestic violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221cb42b135d2a4cada06a67796625a438\u0022\u003EJustice, Minister\u2014Visit to China\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00227d2268d2db064edf997792226024cfaa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d2268d2db064edf997792226024cfaa\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Why does she stand by all her statements regarding Oravida Ltd?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4d68b14ef384f95b2dff78a20723810\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4d68b14ef384f95b2dff78a20723810\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Because, to the best of my knowledge and recollection, my statements are true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fab6e99dee34052bbacf4f1afe4c355\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: If that is the case, why did she say that her trip to the Oravida office in Shanghai was just a \u201Ccup of tea on the way to the airport\u201D, when official documents revealed demonstrably that her comments are false?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220941f224fd454dbf9876cab252cd05ec\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the allegations made by that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216319fab543a4288876e017747b1fe85\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: When her office emailed the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade on 2 October last year to ensure that a certain named person would be at the pre-arranged Beijing dinner with Stone Shi, Julia Xu, and her, who was that person?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022410dd23b92c943b0bb44c884ee4bcf12\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, that member is wrong. That was not a named person at a dinner; that was actually at a drinks matter. The member has completely confused himself around those two issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c629ace2554b4de4b47626f3989515f8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the 2 October email that came from her office to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fe0e3fd8cd940b091068dc53d9f55bd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that particular email. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f31d58b648f4abca9cd9813e8d6044f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: When the pre-organising of her engagements with Oravida in China shows 22 emails between her office and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, and when internally, within the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, there were countless emails around her engagement with Oravida\u2014all at the taxpayers\u2019 expense\u2014why did she not just tell the truth when answering the questions of the media?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257c4ad1c2dbe4b17ba10300260492d85\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I have told the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022167eeb9935104110bbff7c30c9399157\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: When this matter first arose and she had, as a result, discussions with the Cabinet Office and later the Prime Minister, did she lay all of the facts before them; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022596e787cd88848eca6fff2ca38f9f2d4\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said on numerous occasions, I did not have discussions with the Cabinet Office; the Prime Minister did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef5cbd2f7a2e4e9a9e68e6fe66d2da88\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell us why she will not be here on Thursday this week and Tuesday and Wednesday next week to do her job\u2014as she is paid to do by the taxpayer\u2014and to be held accountable to Parliament? What makes her so special that she can take a walk?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc0a928fff1d4af5a8d82dd583a7186d\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: That member seems to know more about my diary than I do. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273bf770a77ba4a9d85ffa9aaca3b6193\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am now trying to get a bit of order so I can hear a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe163f828f91482285c2b4e876674d88\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I wish to table 100 media outlets\u2019 reports saying that that Minister is going to be away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229af1000af0da401e92cc315c3625caa7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Media documents are freely available already to all members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002228e64beba55748cbabfd10cd2d907198\u0022\u003EFreshwater Management\u2014Rotorua Te Arawa Lakes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022e077ed2a09dc4783b0a4d8029f45b591\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e077ed2a09dc4783b0a4d8029f45b591\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: What recent announcements has the Government made regarding the restoration of the Rotorua Te Arawa Lakes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u0022905011e847014e8896d562d1fe05dcb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022905011e847014e8896d562d1fe05dcb8\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Last week I was pleased to announce the reallocation of $24 million to new projects, which will reduce nitrogen inflows into Lake Rotorua through initiatives such as a nitrogen trading scheme and buybacks, gorse removal, and trials of low nitrogen land uses. The funding is part of a $72 million commitment by the Government to the Rotorua Te Arawa Lakes programme to clean up lakes Rotorua, Rotoiti, \u014Ckareka, and Rotoehu, with a total project cost of $144 million. Water quality in the Rotorua Te Arawa Lakes region has improved markedly since 2010, and of the priority lakes, Lake Rotoiti\u2019s water quality target has been met for the first time and is now the best since monitoring began in 1991. Although this is encouraging, further work is required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254a09ea16db74777982bc6a4377713d1\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Why was the funding change made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022955a64a9d4634c109e32c7e3dc88770e\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: The Rotorua community had asked the Government to shift existing funding commitments to a land use management and change project as part of the Rotorua Te Arawa Lakes water quality improvements project. The new project will ultimately reduce the amount of nitrogen leaching into the lake by half, which will enable community-agreed water quality targets to be met. I am particularly pleased to see that this project has the backing of the primary sector and of iwi, as part of collaborative efforts to clean up water quality in these iconic lakes. The lakes\u2019 stakeholder advisory group, with the help of local MP Todd McClay, has devised the scheme to enable water quality to be improved while ensuring that the pastoral sector remains sustainable, which is a win-win for both the economy and the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ae1a4ffc2b1a474d852c3e6a220ef504\u0022\u003EEconomy, Rebalancing\u2014Progress and Alternative Policies\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d469d8aa1dae4b8e978028775b4d46a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d469d8aa1dae4b8e978028775b4d46a6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement that \u201Cwe\u2019ve done a lot of work to rebalance our economy towards exports, savings and investment in a bid to lift sustainable economic growth\u201D; if so, what is the current level of household savings in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00229fd8b49197384f9f94b7888249dbe15e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fd8b49197384f9f94b7888249dbe15e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do stand by that statement, and I will tell the member why. We are seeing a range of positive indicators in the economy: 66,000 more jobs in the last year; wages on average up 2.8 percent, which is well ahead of inflation; economic growth of 3.1 percent, which is up 0.9 percent on the December 2013 quarter; an increase in manufacturing, a sector that added 14,300 jobs in 2013; and investment in plant and machinery, which Statistics New Zealand reports is now at its highest level ever. Alongside that, exports are reaching $50 billion, which is a figure quoted by my colleague Minister Joyce. On the household savings rate, the most recent data shows it at minus 0.7 percent of household income. That compares with an average of minus 4.5 percent in the 5 years from 2003 to 2008, when all that member\u2019s theories were tried out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b02308d60f94267af76c88bb3c5931b\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Prime Minister that \u201Ca lower exchange rate will enable us to promote economic growth faster.\u201D And that \u201Cthe most likely way to achieve a more realistic exchange rate is one where we see an example of good monetary policy where interest rates are lower, and that is why taking pressure off that is important.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246a9e48e401343cfb2c4db332389d5d6\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do agree with the Prime Minister. We are on track to have significantly lower interest rates through this cycle than the last\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b52c99145fe74e53937de38442e580b9\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: No, the interest rates are going up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8571b5811494e5a96daf966fc14a89d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member talks as if interest rates today are a huge problem. In fact, they are just above the lowest interest rates we have had since Keith Holyoake started out being Prime Minister back in the 1960s. That is how low they have been. We will certainly avoid reaching almost 11 percent first mortgage rates, which is the level that they reached under the previous Labour Government, which tried out all the theories that this member is now proposing to try out again. Doing the same thing over and over again with the same results, particularly when they are negative, is a form of insanity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5dfb70dd7c240658a980e6bbca4fc1f\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking of Mr Muldoon, I seek leave\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022614ea36ec3fb4acb8de76f4690cda49d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Is this a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e478c0f37f1246498993ee03ec3ef647\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: It is. I seek leave to table a press release from the time showing that, actually, Mr Muldoon killed universal savings\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feaef8524a4f42f199f96732b2de9c63\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member is now trifling with the point of order process. I will ask him to deliver his supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229092e5a801194039be548336a2191fd1\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that Treasury\u2019s forecasts for the current account deficit to head north of 5 percent within 2 years on his current economic settings show that he has not successfully rebalanced the economy towards exports, savings, and investment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9dca23da8a5485eaab8c8e48650a1b6\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, and I will tell the member why. For each of the last 3 years, Treasury has forecast that the current account deficit will go back to about 6 percent. Today it is just over 3 percent, so Treasury has been consistently wrong in its forecasts. I know the member would prefer it to be right, but it has been wrong. It forecast the current account deficit to be 6 percent today\u2014in fact, it is closer to 3 percent. Some economists say it will go under 3 percent, to 2.5 percent. That will be very disappointing to the Labour Party, particularly when it left it with an average of minus 8 percent for the last 3 years it was in Government. Labour tried all the member\u2019s theories as recently as 2005-08. They did not work then, and we will certainly avoid trying to implement them now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d0d68ca1e1b4606883431ffb61a35c0\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister received on proposals that would do very little, if anything, to rebalance the economy towards exports, savings, and investment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225244ba23e5054212b4486be3acb3f907\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In so far as there is ministerial responsibility, I call the Hon Bill English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffa7741152274fe2b4815b642317d3df\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I have received reports about a proposal that concerns me as the Minister of Finance because it would force hard-working Kiwis who are struggling to pay their mortgage to give up 15 percent of their take-home pay in order to put it into KiwiSaver. I can report, though, that the proposal is confusing. Asked about how much the compulsory KiwiSaver rate would have to rise for the proposal to have any impact on interest rates, one senior source told Radio New Zealand National this morning: \u201CI\u2019m not in a position to give you a particular number on that point.\u201D Asked again, he then said: \u201CI don\u2019t have that number on me.\u201D, as if he had left it back in the locker somewhere. He then added, unusually and exceptionally: \u201CI\u2019m not going to make up a number.\u201D But that was David Cunliffe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277604fae47eb4848a7965f78a405232a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That answer is quite long enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed8cb05df2614114948ff677f302242c\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the 2007 version of Bill English, who said that rural communities like Southland are \u201Cpaying the price\u201D of a high exchange rate; the 2012 version of Bill English, who said that the exchange rate is a \u201Cheadwind for exporters\u201D; the 2013 version of Bill English, who said that \u201CThe exchange rate is still too high.\u201D; or the current version of Bill English, who now says that a lower exchange rate would be toxic?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220046c4f2fb7b4cc5a6324c61ad47b5d0\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: All of them, because I am pleased to tell the member I have improved with age.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022322059b8abc140f8a3cef8db3c625902\u0022\u003EStudent Achievement\u2014Support for M\u0101ori Students\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9bdbb0830894a6b9ec673270a0172dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9bdbb0830894a6b9ec673270a0172dd\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Ka tuku p\u016Brongo Te Tari Arotake M\u0101tauranga m\u014D \u014Dna hiahia i ng\u0101 kaiako m\u014D \u0101 r\u0101tou tauira, \u0101 m\u0113n\u0101 \u0101\u0113, he aha ng\u0101 huarahi kei a r\u0101tou ki te whakautu i t\u0101 Hana Turner k\u014Drero e mea ane \u201Cvery negative opinions about their M\u0101ori students\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Does the Education Review Office report on teacher expectations of students; if so, what mechanisms do they have in place to address what Hana Turner has described as teachers having \u201Cvery negative opinions about their M\u0101ori students\u201D?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u00222dc91a0b902a49999248b2294c484672\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222dc91a0b902a49999248b2294c484672\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. \u0100e [Yes]; from March 2010 the Education Review Office has made it clear that schools can achieve a high-performance standard only when their M\u0101ori students\u2019 progress in achievement is in line with other students in the school. Since then, the Education Review Office has published guidelines on self-review to help schools ensure that they are working towards that outcome for every one of their students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223e907282f954540af33ce2592909f6f\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Will she ask the Education Review Office to actively encourage schools to implement T\u0101taiako: Cultural Competencies for Teachers of M\u0101ori Learners; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6d340988d1b4196a7f857f8217996a1\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: As that member will be aware, T\u0101taiako is a cultural competency framework that was developed and introduced by his colleague and mine, the Associate Minister of Education the Hon Dr Sharples to help all educators think about what it takes to successfully secure educational success in M\u0101ori students. All of the Education Review Office reviewers are trained in T\u0101taiako. They conduct their reviews in the context of T\u0101taiako. The New Zealand Teachers Council is influenced and assesses its initial teacher education programme through the lens of T\u0101taiako. The Ministry of Education has incorporated T\u0101taiako into its M\u0101ori education strategy Ka Hikitia. New professional learning and development contracts from this year will be required to demonstrate responsiveness under T\u0101taiako, and the new providers of our Building on Success programme, which is targeted to 100 schools this year, are required not only to incorporate T\u0101taiako but also to be able to report against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226412c3ad0b034280aa4cfaabd8431415\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I appreciate the Minister and the explanation she gave, but the question was really around the Education Review Office. I accept all those other departments do play their part, but the key in the question was a link back to the original question around the Education Review Office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245f574c5e2a043b485dda66ae6d7ee0d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the Minister on this occasion addressed that question, but I will allow the member an additional supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b192694cde64b4aa864f8abaa0cfd66\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Kei te pai. Thank you. Does the Minister agree that Hana Turner\u2019s research into teacher expectations, ethnicity, and the achievement gap mirrors similar research 30 years ago, such as Dr Alton-Lee\u2019s Take your brown hand off my book, and when will she take urgent action to address the systemic factors of institutional racism and teacher bias?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232510ca8f5a34b9787252eb053dac918\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: I have not read either of those pieces of research, but what I can say is that under this coalition Government M\u0101ori participation and achievement has increased, and we will continue our relentless focus on raising achievement for all students, M\u0101ori included. Can I repeat that in answer to the first supplementary question I started my answer by saying that all Education Review Office officers are trained in T\u0101taiako and they use it in their reviews.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298b0afb4efc1498995577e75a44b0d3d\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister advise the House as to when the T\u0101taiako programme will be compulsory for all schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022292c1fe5c12649139097342b4d1da528\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: I have no intention of making that compulsory. We have self-managing schools. What we focus on instead is raising the expectation of student achievement out of each and every school and providing the tools and support that will assist those schools to be successful, and T\u0101taiako is a key tool in that support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221acbc8a383dc40afaefa006e8cb8a333\u0022\u003EPolice, Minister\u2014Briefings on Hon Maurice Williamson\u2019s Actions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00222f0f0eddb530448b9ad4a93bfba26b37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f0f0eddb530448b9ad4a93bfba26b37\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Is she satisfied with the role she has played as Minister of Police in the events that led up to Hon Maurice Williamson\u2019s resignation last week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5008cc74e7444c7b98f61d989694942\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5008cc74e7444c7b98f61d989694942\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. I had no role to play in the investigation or in the events that led up to the resignation of the Hon Maurice Williamson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d7ab67f17304e19968384372c4bd9a3\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: When was she first informed that Maurice Williamson had placed a phone call to senior police officers regarding an active criminal investigation, and whom was she informed by?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3f96f70bcc74dd8ab157cdaf10a4165\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: The police commissioner verbally briefed me on the afternoon of 28 April 2014.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc23d35672174445b63ce3be25b6b872\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: If she has a no-surprises policy with the police why did it take from 23 January, when Maurice Williamson made the call to the police, until 28 April for her to be informed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fab6f4b6fa0b4d4a828ad8cffa807bea\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: The police decide if and when an issue should be brought to my attention and how much information they should give me. I back the police to make that decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226141b6318cc14d6ba752973314a8d42c\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: At the time she was briefed about the Official Information Act request relating to Maurice Williamson\u2019s contact with the police, what date did the police discuss releasing this information to the New Zealand Herald?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1ba0927a64947be98a4efa260ec43f5\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: From memory, the police commissioner indicated to me that they had informed the reporter that they were going to hold the Official Information Act request until after the appearance in court in the following week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0c9a49d036c4fe0ae3340dcf8d99d2e\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Did she believe that it was acceptable to sit on information relating to her ministerial colleague\u2019s interference in an active criminal case until June, which is when the New Zealand Herald reporter was told by the police, on Tuesday, that the information would be released to him?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e58c729fd594816a361b9ce0871295b\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry. I could not understand from the question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268158fb6be67478c9656f50c406e0b3d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The easiest way forward is to ask the member to repeat the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b84a7b8551b49aebf1c4a30a300d3b6\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to repeat the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e64fab97a54491a8c8f0d12b6ee4b6d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2227561db1b4219aebd06e2a1434105\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she believe it was acceptable to sit on information relating to her ministerial colleague\u2019s interference in an active criminal case until June, which is the date the New Zealand Herald reporter was given by the police for the release of the Official Information Act information\u2014the day after she was briefed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238b71da6e7e5411b9f53f3b0d967be57\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, first of all, I did not sit on any information. I had no knowledge that there was an Official Information Act request in. I had no knowledge of Maurice Williamson\u2019s phone call until 28 April, Monday, when the police commissioner briefed me. If the member is asking about the appropriateness of the police, then that is an operational issue and I trust the police to deal with that in the manner in which they have operational independence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ababc92a5d2b48df9b7847ae3c0de03d\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I believe that the member may have misinterpreted my question. My question related to the date that the police gave her that they would be releasing the information to the New Zealand Herald, which was 2 months after she was briefed about the Official Information Act request.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6456b0544cb474cb59530d9b0f988b4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the question, as you have explained it, was the way I understood it as well. The Minister said she certainly did not sit on any information and then she went on to say that if the police have indicated another date, that was an operational matter. The Minister has addressed that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022462058d99d044841b15f7f4ef3bec8ce\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Minister informed by the police that they would not release the information about Maurice Williamson\u2019s emails until June, which is what the New Zealand Herald reporter was told?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c9beecf7d1248859e4adbc9f4b61cb2\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: In an earlier answer to that member I told her that the police commissioner informed me they had informed the reporter that because the man was due to appear in court in the following week they did not intend to release the emails prior to that court appearance. That is entirely up to the police to decide that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002248bb691e69a340ed9afcc96aabb4ddc8\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002264b6f9e87e5145039c9c1c10549a8d36\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u2014Ministerial Resignation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00228f3c160af69b4b019a23fbf26f67c687\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f3c160af69b4b019a23fbf26f67c687\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received letters from Dr Russel Norman, the Hon David Cunliffe, and the Rt Hon Winston Peters seeking to debate under Standing Order 386 the resignation of the Hon Maurice Williamson. The letters relate to a particular case of recent occurrence involving the administrative responsibility of the Government. Not every ministerial resignation will lead to an urgent debate being accepted. However, the case in question is not related to a policy matter that might be debated in the House on some other occasion; it relates to the administrative responsibility of the Government. Furthermore, Mr Williamson has not resigned in respect of just a portfolio responsibility; he has resigned as a Minister altogether. After weighing up the circumstances very carefully and the public interest in ministerial probity, I have decided to err on the side of allowing a debate today. Dr Norman\u2019s letter was received first, and I therefore call on him to move that the House takes note of an urgent matter of public importance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u0022304c232228694ce3b55cbaea9880eb90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022304c232228694ce3b55cbaea9880eb90\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance. This cuts to the heart of our democracy\u2014this issue around Maurice Williamson\u2014and this cuts to the issue of whether our democracy is for sale under this Government. But I think that we should start in this case from the point of view of the victim of domestic violence, because I think that under our system everybody is deserving of the protection of the law. Regardless of how rich a person is, regardless of what connections a person may have, and regardless of the wealth of a person\u2019s abuser, everybody deserves the protection of the law in this country. In this case we had a Minister intervening to protect the abuser, not to protect the victim, and I think that is what is truly, deeply appalling above everything else in this case. Here was a victim of domestic violence\u2014the perpetrator in this case has pleaded guilty to domestic violence\u2014and here we had a Minister of the Crown intervening in a police investigation to put pressure on the police not to go ahead with a prosecution for a domestic violence incident. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EPut yourself in the shoes of all the domestic violence victims across New Zealand. It is a hard thing to complain in a domestic violence situation. It is always difficult, it is always traumatic, and how much harder is it when you have Maurice Williamson intervening on the side of your abuser in a domestic violence situation? How much harder is it for a victim of domestic violence trying to get justice in this country under this Government when we have a Minister of the Crown intervening to try to prevent the police from going ahead with the prosecution of a domestic violence perpetrator? That is the actual situation we have just experienced in our country. We have gone through the experience of a National Party Minister ringing up the police in a case of domestic violence and leaning on the police not to go ahead with the prosecution. So, from the point of view of the victim, which I think should be at the heart of this whole debate, everybody deserves equal protection from the law, but the National Party does not seem to believe that any more. It seems to think that some people\u2014if you are a domestic violence abuser who has a lot of money\u2014should get special treatment. That is what happened in this case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EI think it is important to read from the police email about National Minister Maurice Williamson\u2019s conversation with the police about this case of domestic violence. Maurice Williamson\u2019s mate was a domestic violence abuser in this case. According to the police email, Mr Williamson rang up a senior police member and said that somebody should review the matter to ensure the police were on solid ground, as Mr Liu is investing a lot of money in New Zealand. Think about that for a second. Think about what Mr Williamson\u2014a very senior National Party member, a member of the National Party for decades, a member of this Parliament for decades\u2014was saying. Think about what it means. He was saying that this person, Mr Liu, had to get special treatment because he was wealthy. Because he was planning to invest money in New Zealand, National thinks that he should get special treatment in the criminal justice system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThis very senior National Party member of Parliament and Minister was intervening in a police investigation to put pressure on the police not to go ahead with the prosecution of a domestic violence abuser, because that abuser was investing money in New Zealand, because he was wealthy. Think about what that means for our justice system. Think about what that means for all the victims of domestic violence in New Zealand. Think about what it is like to complain about domestic violence and how difficult it is to go to the police in a case like this. Then, when you are involved in a police case like this, you have a Minister of the Crown intervening on the side of your abuser to try to stop the police proceeding with the prosecution. That is how low National has now got. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022713f50bca23f4fc7b5b653b228de4dc0\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cee888b8cd5e4be48c6256670f9a0975\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN\u003C/span\u003E: It is that low. Mr Gerry Brownlee says \u201CRubbish!\u201D. I am sorry, Mr Brownlee, but we have the evidence from the police in front of us right here. The police email says that Mr Maurice Williamson, a senior National Minister, rang them up and said that he wanted to make sure somebody reviewed this matter\u2014a domestic violence case. Mr Williamson was intervening to say to them that he wanted them to review the matter to ensure the police were on solid ground as Mr Liu is investing a lot of money in New Zealand. What he is saying is that the law is not equal. We are not all equal before the law, because if some of us are wealthy, then they get special treatment according to National. That is what senior National Minister Maurice Williamson has just done in our country in the 21st century, this year. Think about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ESo where did the rot begin that we end up at the point where a senior National Minister thinks that someone should get special treatment in a domestic violence case because they are wealthy? How did we end up in this situation with this Government in 2014? I would argue that the problem is this. National has adopted the culture of the world of business, where everything is for sale\u2014and that is fine and how it is meant to be; the world of business is all about money\u2014and has applied it to the world of Government and the world of justice. What it has said is that in the justice system you can buy your way out. If you are accused of being a domestic violence abuser, and you have got contacts with the National Party and you are planning to invest a lot of money in New Zealand, then you can buy your way out of it. Maybe another donation to the National Party would fix it for you. You can have a National Minister ring up senior police on your behalf if you are a domestic violence abuser. You can have a senior Minister in the National Government ring up the police and lean on them to not proceed with the investigation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ESo what National is saying is that there is the culture of the world of business, and there is nothing wrong with the culture of the world of business\u2014we need to make money in the world of business, and that is fine. But when National brings that over to the world of justice, and says that the richer you are, the more justice you will get, that is wrong. And what National has done is wrong. What Maurice Williamson did was wrong. Think about it from the point of view of the victim of domestic violence. For once, National should look at its heart and think about it from the point of view of the person who has had violence done against them by their partner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EI would also say that National is applying this idea that money rules all else to the world of politics. In the world of politics it is supposed to be one person, one vote. We are all supposed to be treated equally by the Government of the day. That is regardless of how wealthy you are, regardless of how much money you may give to a political party. We are all supposed to be treated equally in the world of politics and democracy. That is the idea of democracy. The whole idea, what our forefathers and foremothers fought for over centuries, was that we could all have one person, one vote, and be treated equally by the law and by the Government. The whole idea was that we would not get special treatment just because we were rich, and we would not get special treatment just because we donated to a political party. This is where National has lost its way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EMaurice Williamson and the attitude of Maurice Williamson, I think, have come to represent everything that is wrong in this current Government. The amazing thing is listening to him even after he was sacked as a Minister. He was defending the position that you should get special treatment if you are planning to invest lots of money in New Zealand. This reminds me very much of the Skycity debate. Where did the rot set in? Let me suggest to you one place where this may have begun, and that was the Skycity debate. The idea of the Skycity debate was that this Parliament changed the gambling laws of New Zealand in order to facilitate Skycity. You could argue that it bought the law\u2014that might be a bit strong. But you could certainly argue that National\u2019s position was that if Skycity was willing to invest a lot of money, it could get the law changed for it. That is very similar to the position of Maurice Williamson, which is that if you are investing a lot of money in New Zealand, you should get special treatment from the justice system, even if you are a domestic violence abuser. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219fb138b4c6a4685a701a08155985b6a\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That is wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab174919576f4410ade5bcdd577d5844\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Brownlee says this is wrong. So he is defending Maurice Williamson. Let us be clear about what Maurice Williamson did. He did not say that everybody\u2014a domestic violence abuser or a victim\u2014should get treated equally by the law. Maurice Williamson said no. If you are planning to invest heavily in New Zealand, you will get special treatment. He said that their case must be on solid ground, so, presumably, everyone else\u2019s case does not need to be on solid ground. But if you are planning to invest lots of money in New Zealand, the police\u2019s case against you should be on solid ground. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe Green Party does not believe what Maurice Williamson and the National Party believe. We believe that all people are equal before the law. We believe that all people are equal under our democracy, and we will defend that position. Every time that the Green Party has proposed more transparency around donations to political parties, the National Party has rejected them\u2014every time. It has rejected every attempt to clean up the system. Simon Power, to give him his due, did have some respect for the idea that we need more transparency around the system, and some of the changes that he made around electoral finance were very, very good. But what we are seeing now is that this Government opposes every attempt to clean up the political system, and the reason it opposes every attempt to clean up the political system is that it is defending the indefensible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EMaurice Williamson has become, I think, the most rotten piece of this whole ideology that the National Party has adopted, which is that the more money you have, the more say you should have in Parliament and in the Government and in our democracy, and if you have enough money, you should get special treatment under the criminal justice system. That is exactly what Maurice Williamson was saying in his intervention in this case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ESo this is a pretty simple case. I do not think it is a complicated issue, actually. I think that it is quite straightforward. I think that it is good that Maurice Williamson has been sacked, and good on the Prime Minister for doing it, but the Prime Minister needs to look in the mirror and see where the rot has set in. Where has this culture arisen that says that the more money you have, the more influence you have in politics, and the more say you have in the criminal justice system? That is wrong, and I think that most New Zealanders will reject what the Government has been doing in this respect. We need to clean up politics in New Zealand, and we need to remember that the law is here to protect all New Zealanders, even if they happen to be the partner of a domestic violence abuser who gave a lot of money to the National Party. Even those victims, Mr Brownlee, deserve our defence as a Parliament, because the law is here to protect all of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002225fe731652b34dfe97be46343453f149\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225fe731652b34dfe97be46343453f149\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E The member Dr Russel Norman is usually moderate, if sometimes assertive, in his criticisms, but some of those criticisms, particularly in respect of domestic violence, were simply objectionable. It is disgraceful to allege in this Parliament that any political party sponsors a justice system where somehow people can buy their way out of justice. It is simply wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EHe could have made a more reasonable point about the judgment of the Minister in picking up the phone, but he did not. He chose instead to slur, to smear, and to moralise from the position of someone who says: \u201CEveryone should be treated equally, but I went off to see Dotcom.\u201D, who could be a critical part of forming a Government that he wants to be part of. Why did he go off to see Dotcom? He was not visiting my neighbour in Dipton, who might expect the same treatment from a Labour-Green Government as Kim Dotcom got. I challenge the member to get up and say that Phillip Mills\u2019 Green growth agenda will not be adopted in any form by a future Labour-Green Government\u2014that there will be no subsidy schemes, no incentives, and no support\u2014because if it is, it will look like Phillip Mills has bought the Green Party with his $65,000 donation. So I just suggest to the member that he get off his high horse\u2014take just a couple of steps back down off the saddle\u2014before he wades into this kind of fantastical moralising.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EActually, I am going to indicate support for Maurice Williamson as a Minister. As a Minister, Maurice Williamson was a good Minister. I worked with him on a whole range of issues. Maurice Williamson was the Minister who put together the package for dealing with leaky homes, showing in the process of that a great deal of understanding of the human pressures that go with having a leaky home, the technical issues that were involved, and the patience needed in trying to square the circle and find some kind of workable solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMaurice\u2019s enthusiasm for technology is, I think, well-known, but it has had a real impact for New Zealanders. The SmartGate process at the border is largely a product of his enthusiasm. The roll-out of ultra-fast broadband is in no small part due to his strong advocacy for it when the National Party was back in Opposition. He has also done a lot of work over recent years on one of the more difficult aspects of Government, and that is getting Government agencies to work together. In this case it was the border agencies, the Ministry for Primary Industries, the Customs Service, and the Immigration Service. They have had to learn how to work together and to also have a wide-ranging technology upgrade to ensure that New Zealand stays suitably connected to the rest of the world. In fact, Maurice has even been able to make the portfolio of statistics look exciting through his enthusiasm for the integrated data infrastructure, which is going to make a real difference to many New Zealanders as the Government becomes more effective in delivering results through its public services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBut Mr Williamson knows now what we all need to keep in mind\u2014that is, in return for the privilege and opportunity of being a Minister, we are fully accountable for all the judgments we make as a Minister. Although day to day those judgments can fall short of the ideal, and they sometimes do\u2014they sometimes do\u2014there are some judgments we make that, as the Prime Minister said, go over the line. One of those judgments is to pick up the phone to take a point of view on the work of the police in their prosecutions. There has been some discussion about the extent of interaction of politicians and the police around investigations, but none of those excuse that particular judgment. It was a poor judgment, and he has been held to account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBut, of course, if the Leader of the Opposition was held to account, he would not have his job either. It is interesting to see today that the Greens are a better organised Opposition than the Labour Party is, once again. Once more we saw a small sign of why the Greens are a sharper, better, dominating operation. They got their letter in first for a snap debate, a snap debate that has been known about for what\u20145 days? 6 days? And in that time, the Labour Party was too busy messing up its variable savings ratio policy to be bothered or to have the time to be able to get the letter in for the snap debate. [Interruption] Well, there is accountability in the National Party and in the National Government. The Minister goes over the line; the Prime Minister takes action. How many mistakes can David Cunliffe make before he is held accountable by the Labour caucus? Well, we know the answer: he can make an endless number of mistakes because by changing the rules he made sure the caucus could not hold him to account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ELet us just look at today\u2019s little episode. We have asked the Labour Party one question about its compulsory KiwiSaver policy: how much will contributions have to go up to make a difference to interest rates? That matters because putting up contribution rates cuts the incomes of hundreds of thousands of low-income New Zealanders. I thought the Labour Party would give us a number, but David Cunliffe decided one answer was not enough. He tried three. So he said, first, \u201CI haven\u2019t got that number on me.\u201D Then he said: \u201CThe research has been done. I\u2019ll bring it next time.\u201D And then he said: \u201CThere is no number.\u201D So we go into an election campaign\u2014I will say \u201Chelpfully\u201D, from our point of view, but probably not so helpfully for accountability within the Labour Party\u2014where under its signature policy the leader of the Labour Party cannot tell New Zealanders by how much their pay will be cut if they vote for him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWe have seen the sharp contrasts in accountability. David Cunliffe keeps his secret trust donors secret. Here is a question for the Labour front bench: who donated to David Cunliffe\u2019s secret trust? To use the words of the Deputy Prime Minister of a proposed Labour-Green Government, who bought David Cunliffe, and is he accountable to his own front bench and his caucus for those donations? Maurice Williamson has been accountable\u2014he has paid a price; he lost his job\u2014for an action he took on behalf of someone he knew. Will David Cunliffe be held accountable in the same way? I am waiting for Labour members to get up and explain to us whether David Cunliffe will be held accountable in the same way that Maurice Williamson has been held accountable. No? Well, it is all about accountability. How can the Labour caucus hold David Cunliffe accountable if they do not know who his donors are? We look forward to hearing about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u00229fd744b8938348f2beea9520d54fbca8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fd744b8938348f2beea9520d54fbca8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E It seems the Minister of Finance did not want his full allocation of time. That is hardly surprising, because he did not really defend the Minister who has lost his job, the Hon Maurice Williamson, at all. In fact, National\u2019s response to this very serious breach of ministerial standards has been to throw mud at the Green Party, to ignore the substance of the allegations, and to fail to excuse, justify, or defend even once the shocking lapse of ministerial standards that is now endemic in that National Cabinet. Maurice Williamson is just the latest Minister to be added to National\u2019s roll of dishonour. There is still room for more to come, and no doubt there will be more. But last week he joined the ranks of Pansy Wong, Phil Heatley, Nick Smith, Peter Dunne, and John Banks. It is a long list\u2014long and growing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EMr Williamson\u2019s resignation and the issues that led to it are very serious matters that question the independence of the New Zealand Police and its ability to conduct investigations without political interference. New Zealanders must have an assurance that Ministers in any Government will not, cannot, and must not use their positions either to favour some members of the community or to apply pressure to independent organisations like the Police. New Zealanders are stunned, New Zealanders are shocked, and New Zealanders are saddened that that could have occurred at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe fact that it did occur tells us a lot about the culture within National and the disarray that this Government is coming into. It is the Prime Minister, Mr Key, who is directly and ultimately responsible for the growing culture of cronyism\u2014cronyism and arrogance\u2014on the part of this National Government. These are the lowest ministerial standards in a generation. It is a culture that says that the normal rules of conduct no longer need apply and that the rules of the Cabinet Manual have become mere guidelines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIt is now allowable, for example, for Ministers and their families to financially benefit from companies that Ministers have assisted in their ministerial capacity, without a proper declaration of conflict of interest to either the Prime Minister or the public. Why is Judith Collins still a Minister? Those companies, like the one represented by the donor to Mr Williamson, have donated thousands\u2014tens of thousands\u2014of dollars to the National Party, and that is now business as usual. For this National Government, politics is no longer any kind of calling. It is simply a business\u2014cash in, cash out. Standards are down and Ministers are hanging on, and the public is becoming disillusioned that this Government represents any more their hopes and dreams for a better future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister has led this culture of cronyism and entitlement not just by omission but by deliberate act himself, like taking $55,000 from the chairman of Oravida and then telling the public it was a donation to a charity. The National Party was the charity. He reinstated Peter Dunne to his ministerial role, despite the almost certain truth that he leaked a classified Government Communications Security Bureau report. He relies upon the vote of John Banks, who is currently on trial for taking large amounts of money and then covering it up. He excused the Minister of Justice, after she overruled the Prime Minister, for condoning the actions of Minister Williamson interfering in a police operational inquiry, not to mention the fact that it was a domestic violence inquiry and that he was a wealthy foreign donor. In any intervention you would expect the Minister of Justice to be the first to apply the rule of law and the conventions of the Cabinet Manual, but she did not. She sought to overrule the Prime Minister. Why is she still in office? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThat same Minister of Justice is a trained lawyer. She is a lawyer who is trained to manage and identify conflicts of interest, but she could not manage her own, and she has most recently taken out her frustration through low, personal attacks on individual members of the press gallery. These are the standards in John Key\u2019s National Cabinet. These are the reasons New Zealanders are losing hope and losing faith that this Government can represent any more their aspirations for a better life for themselves and their children in this beautiful country of ours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIt is proper for us to briefly recall the incidents that led to Mr Williamson\u2019s resignation. He rang the Counties Manukau district commander in January regarding the investigation of Mr Donghua Liu after his arrest in December 2013 on assault charges relating to a domestic incident. Mr Williamson told them to \u201Censure we are on solid ground as Mr Liu is investing a lot of money in New Zealand.\u201D He did not say Mr Liu was investing a lot of money in the National Party, but he was doing that as well. And since when, in this great country of ours, has the amount of money in someone\u2019s bank account been able to determine their treatment under the law? That is not the New Zealand that our people want to see. That is not the country we want to build. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EMr Williamson then said that it was not improper because he was not a friend of Liu. You might say they were just beach bach buddies. That contrasts with Ms Collins, who was having dinner with friends whom she could not talk to but saying that they were friends after all. Mr Williamson, however, had helped Mr Liu get citizenship after it was initially declined. He held his citizenship ceremony in his electorate office the next day. He encouraged him to buy the holiday home next door. He saw the plans for it, and he worked on it. How close is that to foreign money? It is way too close for New Zealanders. To take that and then interfere in a police investigation to try to get the man off a domestic violence charge\u2014a plague that affects one-sixth of all women in New Zealand\u2014it is no wonder that members of the National Party across the way are hanging their heads low.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271c38c28ca5a4437829b8b71aa7a92a3\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: Disgraceful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf540aac615e428db487a4b5a1f1a23d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: It is disgraceful. It is not the New Zealand that New Zealanders want to build. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EVery, very sadly, this is not the first occasion. First, there was Richard Worth. He resigned in 2009 after being caught out travelling to India and talking up aviation training in New Zealand, all the while operating as the director of New Zealand Aviation Ltd and holding shares and directorships of an Indian trade group\u2014yet more undisclosed conflicts of interest, yet more cosy relationships with foreign money. It took a while, but he eventually left. Then Pansy Wong got it wrong in 2010 on yet another taxpayer-funded trip to China. This time as a private individual she witnessed her husband\u2019s business deals, signed a contract using her ministerial title, and promoted\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a64e292f32714333bbf2d3f048abecdf\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: She was proved right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bc4308bdbfd40e9877157dafbd67dd7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014here is one for Mr Brownlee\u2014her husband\u2019s hovercraft business and the interests of a local Chinese website. She was too close to foreign money. A culture of cronyism setting in. It all sounds very familiar, does it not, given Ms Collins\u2019 current troubles? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIn March 2010 Phil Heatley was sacked for much less. He lost his position when it was revealed he had charged Ministerial Services for expenses he was not entitled to. Or there is Nick Smith, sitting there, who went\u2014only to return\u2014for writing a letter of support for his friend and National Party campaigner Bronwyn Pullar while he was a Minister, on his ministerial letterhead. The Prime Minister described that as a lapse of judgment, but in the light of Ms Collins, one could feel sorry for that Minister, because he was treated harshly by comparison. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThis goes to the culture within National. It is a culture of cronyism, a culture of arrogance, a culture of entitlement, a culture that the rules that apply to all other New Zealanders no longer apply to the Government. There is an old rule in politics that when that rot sets in a Government goes out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00223df3c318d643419ca074289a8d0b665d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223df3c318d643419ca074289a8d0b665d\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022286e60f8d4f14bf78ee2aba46546de7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022286e60f8d4f14bf78ee2aba46546de7b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank God for that. Oh, what a tangled web she did weave when first she did practise to deceive. Maurice Williamson\u2019s action in contacting the police was a breach of ministerial rules. There was no grey area in his actions; it was a blatant breach of how Ministers must behave. Maurice has done the appropriate thing and resigned. His Prime Minister has lauded him for doing so and has lauded himself as Prime Minister for taking that action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EBut what about Judith Collins? Where is the accountability here for cronyism, for sleazy favouritism, and for corruption? The Minister of Justice was asked, you may recall, some simple questions about a company connected to her family and her engagement with the company\u2019s business whilst on a ministerial visit to China. What is relevant is that connection, because it determines whether there was a serious conflict of interest in her actions, whether there was a breach of the Cabinet rules, and whether an allegation of corruption can possibly be made. The Minister\u2019s response was to do everything and anything but tell the truth. She explained one of her three engagements with Oravida in China as being a casual meeting on the way to the airport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f21310dd46354d0ca7a376b2649a7eec\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the debate about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227916d635665a4ee3b1b803a209534d82\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The debate is about ministerial standards, and whether someone\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022412075ac90d9470084637127ea97e166\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No it\u2019s not. Read the letter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9754087236d49aa830ca0d885728667\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I know that the last person to understand ministerial standards is one Gerry Brownlee, because, as you recall, there was a new casino to be set up in Christchurch, and the new directors were going to be Gerry Brownlee and the head of the National Party. He got found out for that. So the last person to be able to speak here on a matter of convention would be Gerry Brownlee. Judith Collins said she was on the way to the airport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec38b0d9bc85428b97fc8291fa7fc906\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us about the brown paper bag at the fisheries do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c57093f2b18841c1a011b77033ae5ef6\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: He is excited now. I have struck a nerve. We have struck a nerve. Turn the cameras on to him. I want to see how upset he gets when he hears the truth. Every action she took was to both withhold the truth and divert focus from the truth. All these actions were bound to fail. And do you know what? She began to regard herself as being above the rules, above the law, and above convention. She believes she is beyond reproach and beyond accountability. She blames her staff, and she blames the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade. Williamson crossed the line, it is true. Collins crossed the line countless times and she must go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf778deac285474da78a5984f303fd63\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will use the member\u2019s full name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd4c8b7560db4b60beb135fa31fa96e5\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly I will. The Hon Judith Collins crossed the line countless times and now she thinks that, when all else has failed, she can take leave, hide from further scrutiny, and have this scandal blow over. What is the taxpayer to make of that? You have got Maurice Williamson taking the cop, saying that he made a mistake, and resigning, but not this one. It seems that when a Minister comes under pressure, she stops work, takes a rest, and takes a holiday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225647071c9672408ea252f0ba3066c322\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. When the Speaker decides to require Parliament to set aside time for a debate on a matter that is of public interest and significance, it needs to be on a topic that is very clearly stated in the letter to the Speaker. There were four letters today, I understand, and in each case, it was sought to debate the circumstances around the resignation of the Hon Maurice Williamson. What we have at the moment is a speaker who is using this opportunity to make accusatory statements in a way that is completely unacceptable and unparliamentary. I would ask you to call him to speak within the bounds of the debate that is in front of us. Otherwise we are unreasonably using up time on a day that belongs to another event and, ultimately, the time of members tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b0bca91e0ce454ab494856fb024a43a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: You would have heard the speech given by the Hon Bill English. You will also know what the complaint was that came to the Speaker with regard to ministerial rules. That is what the whole issue is about. What we have got is a very embarrassed person trying to constrain the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022937bd28991e749339adfacf0a86aa360\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I am going to speak in this debate very shortly, but I would ask you to perhaps read to the House the letter that was supplied to the Speaker, which led to the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233105febe3aa4c34a5a6b71a5795c32f\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: This debate is one around a number of topics to do with accountability and to do with the ministerial resignation. The Hon Bill English delivered a speech of around 8\u00BD minutes, approximately 6\u00BD minutes of which were about the Labour Party, about David Cunliffe, and about issues related to that. This is a robust debate, but Mr English\u2019s contribution has raised a number of issues. Mr Peters has been speaking for a few minutes now on topics closely related to ministerial behaviour\u2014far more closely related than most of Bill English\u2019s speech. I would ask for consistency. Bill English was allowed to complete his speech; Mr Peters should be allowed to complete his.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219f4e565dcb44a048d23ec3bbce9dbc9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just say to members that in addressing this issue\u2014[Interruption] We have a point of order on the floor. Can I just say to members that when addressing this issue, members, when they respond to a speaker, are generally given 1 or 2 minutes to respond to what the other speaker has said. This is a debate about the resignation of the Hon Maurice Williamson from his ministerial portfolios. Members may refer to other members in passing, but we need to remember that the reason for this debate is the resignation of a Minister from his portfolio. So I just ask the members to recognise that when we come to debate this issue, and recognise also that all members are honourable members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ff22b261cb041898f2b209b4f78e89f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Maurice Williamson did not engage in a cover-up, but what we are seeing now is one. The real issue is who caused all this pressure. Of course, the answer is when a certain Minister set out to deceive. Maurice did not deny it. He said: \u201CI made the phone call.\u201D His explanation fell short and he went. This is how democracy is destroyed\u2014when instead of setting standards and principles of acceptable ministerial behaviour, the Minister and her Prime Minister so demonstrably fail the rules. They seem to be in another world\u2014a different realm from that of Maurice Williamson. It is a world where standards of ministerial conduct do not apply to them. Why has Maurice gone?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cd2525ae2b84b0ca67e2988ad3fad0d\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Williamson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270bbbc106dcc4ac89555f33b5dcf960a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Hon Maurice Williamson gone? If I was him, I would be feeling a bit upset, because it seems that there are nakedly different standards. Why is Judith Collins still a Minister if there is a consistent set of Cabinet rules? Is it the National Government\u2019s contempt or disdain for the public? Is it arrogance of the type you saw in that point of order by Gerry Brownlee? He thought, as Rumpole from down in Christchurch, that he could offer something by way of a moot point that we should all take seriously. There is no possible justification, Mr Brownlee, for your colleague to remain a Minister. It is simply an outrage, an insult to the New Zealand public. It is an affront to democracy. What is the taxpayer out there to think? When they are under the stress and pressure of work, do they get a chance to walk off home, not be accountable, and face no more questions as to how they are going? No, they do not. They stick it out because that is part of the job, and a ministerial post, paid for by the taxpayer, demands the same standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWho thinks that it is a mere coincidence, first, that following the dinner\u2014this is what happened. This is new. It is not known by the members over there, because they are so indolent and lazy. You had the Ministry for Primary Industries recall of 3 August. You had the 6 August letter from Julia Xu complaining about what has happened to the company Oravida. Then you had the 20 and 23 October engagements, before and after, by one Judith Collins. Then you had the sanitary certificate secured by her connections in China for the company. And then guess what happened. Its sales, which had hit rock bottom, took off like a rocket. They soared to millions and millions of dollars, and Mr Brownlee thinks he can get up and excuse that. It is a disgrace. We know that the National Party is cracking behind the scenes. We know that the reason Maurice Williamson and Judith Collins should be thanked by us is that they have finally unveiled the real character and sordid nature of the modern National Party\u2014cronyism, sleaze, corruption, all sorts of secret funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e7aff44435748d396c3d5433adee05a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Can I just say to the member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285093280b71245439be304c99086fcf0\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022940f8d6e9cb04865860b4d55140d5c47\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I know what the member is going to say, and I have been thinking about it myself. I would just like to refer members to Speaker\u2019s ruling 26/5 in relation to corruption and disloyalty. I want to read it to the House because I think it is important when we are looking at this debate. \u201CIt is not only the right, but the duty, of a member who can show that there has been anything in the nature of bribery or corruption on the part of other members to bring that matter before the House in the proper constitutional way, but a member must not make veiled suggestions during the course of debate.\u201D That was Speaker Statham in 1934, so it goes back some considerable way. I just want to again advise members that all members are honourable and that is it. Refer to each other as honourable, despite what we might think as otherwise. All of us here are aspirational and we call a member what we would want for them and us all to become. I caution the House that we tend to see things in the world as we are, not as it is, and when we point one finger at someone else, we point three at ourselves. So I just caution the member. If he can be careful, please, in the way in which he is addressing the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022462c69e48166444cb296d528dfc420c6\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: There is more to come. The reason Judith Collins is not telling the truth to this House is that the moment she does, she will not just cease to be a Minister; she will cease to be a member of Parliament. For somebody who used to be on the Law Society\u2014a serious administering body up there in Auckland, the biggest group of lawyers in the country and perhaps the most talented\u2014I say that Judith Collins is withholding the truth and so are her colleagues, because they know the consequence. The trouble is that there is, Mr Brownlee, more to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6441ef6538144d2a86709dc6f4f5d49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6441ef6538144d2a86709dc6f4f5d49\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I would have to say that the catchcry of Winston Peters\u2019 political career has always been: \u201CThere is more to come.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adeda162a9854c149bc1b9afb54b18b0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: And there was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267a4e7eebc754c0d8c0d98ed98440a63\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: And there was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c40aabf038ba4dcebff31dfeeea9aafb\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What about those Russian subs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8b3135b5693419a955ed547bc8e9d82\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but for one of those moments when the propeller hit the bottom of the Cook Strait, the Russian subs came in, the surveillance device was on the Mikhail Lermontov, there was not cash in the brown paper bag at the Kermadec restaurant, and when he said no, he did not know what he was saying. But there was always more to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI want to begin my comments today by complimenting the work that the Hon Maurice Williamson has done as a Minister, to express my regret that he has had to make the choice to resign, and to further compliment him for recognising that he had put a foot over the line and that it was the only consequence that could occur as a result of that. These things are very hard for people\u2019s families, and so I want to acknowledge his family, his wife and children, who, of course, will be suffering with him as he is trying to come to terms with understanding just how he could have had that lapse of judgment that got him into this position. He is a good man. He has contributed a lot to New Zealand\u2014his family should know that\u2014and I am sure that he will continue to do so for some years to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThis debate is essentially Parliament setting aside time to discuss the circumstances under which Mr Williamson was forced to\u2014well, not forced to but decided to resign. Those circumstances have been well canvassed through all the outlets in the media that this country has. The member himself has made it very clear that he considers that he made a mistake. He said that he has had a lapse of judgment and that he was in a position where he could not continue as a Minister. The suggestion that Mr Williamson was at any time motivated by the particular wealth of an individual is completely fatuous. It is as fatuous as me saying that there is a Christchurch multimillionaire who funds New Zealand First, for example. Everybody knows that that is the case, but no one actually says it, because it is not appropriate to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252b2d3f71dd046bfbd0727e2471c6fc8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Mr Brownlee said that there are certain things you cannot say. That is a demonstrable lie that he just engaged in. He knows full well that a party with the highest return rate for the lowest expenditure is not the beneficiary of one of his filthy mates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da6dfdf1bc664973a537c9a1cd71714e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just say to members\u2014that is not actually a point of order\u2014that this is a robust place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253e03a4f89114afca98ef89742fd0e53\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Let us consider for just a moment some of the contributions to this debate today, starting with Russel Norman. Russel Norman seems to think that somehow the decision by Maurice Williamson to resign was an indication that standards were falling inside the ministerial arrangements we have in this country. Far from it\u2014it was confirmation that those arrangements are, and continue to be, upheld. The gentleman concerned went on further to suggest that there was almost an attitude that if you have got a lot of money, you can get favours out of the Government. Well, that is complete and utter nonsense. The National Party discloses all its donations\u2014more so, I would suggest, than most other political parties, because we have nothing particular to hide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022551ebfe812a046b9b8602db19160b50e\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: What about the trusts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285e659d48fa1480ab2bee9182fb1fd71\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: For example, the member over there is talking about trusts. Well, let us talk about David Cunliffe\u2019s trust. Let us talk about David Cunliffe\u2019s trust and ask why he cannot tell us who paid into his account. As the Hon Bill English said, someone has bought David Cunliffe. There is no question about that. What about the arrangements between the Green Party and Phillip Mills? Phillip Mills is openly saying he wants a Green agenda for New Zealand. He wants his own type of Green growth agenda for New Zealand. He rejects what other mainstream parties are doing, so he is off to put his money into the Green Party. That is policy for cash\u2014nothing short. Russel Norman\u2014the great and virtuous Russel Norman\u2014walks up to the Dotcom mansion and tries to do a deal over Dotcom\u2019s extradition for cash for the Green Party, but apparently that is not any sort of misleading or inappropriate behaviour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWhat about the Electoral Finance Act that the Labour Party rorted upon the people of New Zealand, supported by the Green Party? And if you want to start listing off Ministers who resign, there were 11 of them under the previous Government. One of them, interestingly, was the Rt Hon Winston Peters. Maurice Williamson has done the right thing. He is an honourable man. He does have a political future and he has contributed an enormous amount to New Zealand at this point. He should be commended for recognising where the line is, and for him to have made that choice is, I think, commendable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00222ea818ea594444968c7291c5ab91b445\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ea818ea594444968c7291c5ab91b445\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Many of the facts of the Maurice Williamson resignation are extraordinarily clear. On 23 January the Hon Maurice Williamson made a very clear error of judgment not just by having a conversation with the police about an open criminal case; by just picking up the phone, he clearly breached the Cabinet Manual. Many here would probably argue that he breached a convention that applies to all members of Parliament, but what is absolutely clear is that he did breach the Cabinet Manual. In doing so, he undermined two very important principles that guide us, as members of Parliament, but also the justice system: firstly, the independence of the police and the importance of constabulary independence; and, secondly, the very fine line we walk in between advocating for constituents but never abusing our position of power by being seen to influence the justice system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Police also plays a very important role in defending the independence of the police. You will see that from time to time the Minister states that she cannot intervene in something because it is considered to be operational. But let us look at the role that the Minister of Police played in this particular case. The call, as I have said, was made on 23 January. On 4 April a media outlet put in a request for information that the police may have had regarding Maurice Williamson\u2019s intervention in a case involving Mr Liu and before the courts. On 14 April the police flagged with the Minister\u2019s office in a list of Official Information Act requests that this request had been made. The Minister has since released the text of that description in the briefing, and it does state simply the name of Mr Liu and does not include the name of Mr Williamson. The Minister\u2019s office, of course, you would have thought may have asked questions about the nature of the release, given how highly politicised that particular National Party donor had been in the past, but accepting the office\u2019s word that no questions were raised, we move to the next part of the time line. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EOn 28 April, 2 weeks after the police provided that small description of the Official Information Act request, as the Minister has confirmed in the House today, she was verbally told by the Commissioner of Police, Mike Bush, that a request from a media outlet had been made and it involved Maurice Williamson. Today in the House we asked some follow-up, and I believe important, questions about that briefing. When the Minister of Police was briefed by the commissioner, was she told when the public would know this vital information about her colleague\u2019s interference in a police case? Did she know at what time and at what date the public would be told? And had the journalist been informed of this? She told the House that the information would be released\u2014if my recollection is right\u2014the following week or thereabouts, when the court case was due to come up. The court case is on 10 June. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EShe also claimed in the House today that she was told that the journalist has been informed that the information would be released to them the next week. The journalist has not been told. The journalist was not told until after she was briefed, and the date given to that journalist was 10 June. My point is this: the Minister of Police either misled the House today or the police misled her. She knew there would be several weeks before the public would know about this case. And what did she do with that information? Absolutely nothing. She did not tell the Prime Minister. She did not even ask for the emails relating to Maurice Williamson\u2019s case. In fact, Mr Williamson and the Prime Minister received the email evidence before she did, which was on the Wednesday. The fact of the matter is this Minister of Police did nothing to protect her police force. She asked no questions. She heard no evil and saw no evil. Thereby, in doing so, she failed them and failed to protect their constabulary independence in favour of protecting her own colleague.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00220dbe5b35f4e44d96a50c7279406e4191\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220dbe5b35f4e44d96a50c7279406e4191\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E The only people in this place who have not made mistakes are those who have actually not done anything. In this instance, Maurice Williamson made a mistake, he took responsibility, and he resigned as a Minister. The person whom he inappropriately phoned on behalf of was prosecuted and convicted by the courts. On both instances, justice has been done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe member who has just spoken, Jacinda Ardern, has wanted to talk time lines, and her leader has wanted to talk about standards. I am happy to engage in that. From the time the Prime Minister knew of Mr Williamson\u2019s conduct, it was 36 hours later that Mr Williamson resigned. I challenge the member to compare that with the record of the previous Government in a far more serious offending. Members will recall Taito Phillip Field. He did not just break the rules of the Cabinet Manual; he committed a corrupt criminal offence for which he went to prison. What was the time line on Mr Taito Phillip Field, I ask Ms Ardern. She is now hanging her head and so she should, because it was not 36 hours. It was not 36 days. It was actually a whole lot longer than 36 weeks. So I say to members opposite that before they get on their high horse and before they start throwing stones in this glass house, they should reflect on their own record of vigorously defending Taito Phillip Field under indefensible circumstances for many, many different months, and contrast that with the way in which the Hon Maurice Williamson acknowledged that he was at fault, took responsibility, and resigned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIt was with an element of sadness. I think Maurice Williamson is a talented person who has given this Parliament and this country great service, whether it is in information technology\u2014and I have a particular interest and I have big boots to fill in the role that he has been playing around the regulation of buildings for earthquakes\u2014and I think we would all acknowledge that his infamous rainbow speech was a positive contribution to this Parliament. So it is with sadness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EBut, equally, though, I say that anybody who questions the high standards that the Prime Minister, John Key, sets for this administration overlooks the record and overlooks the facts. There was nothing more ironic, Annette King, than hearing Mr Cunliffe lecture us on standards at the same time as he continues to refuse to divulge who the major donors to his secret trust were. He lectures us on transparency at the same time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c59f198a798d4e2a89d58270fa180fe3\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Who had the dinners at the restaurant, Nick?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfc730e4a76147fab17401097992bcf1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, my point to Ms King is this. We would not know whether Mr Cunliffe has dined at a dinner with his major donors, because he will not disclose who the donors are. That is a very clear contrast. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWe have heard this afternoon in this debate members speak as though it was an invitation for an orgy of mud-slinging. I just simply say to members of this House, and particularly members opposite, that I know why they do not want to debate the Budget. I know why they do not want to debate the state of the economy\u2014the strong job growth and the increasing economic confidence. I know why they do not want to debate with Judith Collins crime being at its lowest level in 30 years. I know why they do not want to debate with Tony Ryall the state of the health service. I know why they do not want to debate the improving education standards. It is because the truth is that when this Parliament focuses on debating the issues that matter, there is only one choice for New Zealand on 20 September. Members opposite want to engage in an orgy of mud-slinging because that is their only hope. That is their only hope\u2014that they might be able to drag down this Parliament and drag down politics in New Zealand in the hope that some of the mud might stick and they might be able to crawl their way back to the Treasury benches. I simply say to this House to get a grip. Maurice has acknowledged responsibility. He has resigned. Let us get on with the issues that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022553e68b7905a4715ba74742fb719e77c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022553e68b7905a4715ba74742fb719e77c\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E I have learnt in 3 very short years here that this is an extremely rough-and-tumble place. It is actually quite a sad thing when a Minister resigns. Maurice Williamson likes the saying that in this place, one day you are a rooster and the next day you are a feather duster. Sadly, our friend Mr Williamson has experienced the rough and tumble of this place. I want to say some very kind things about an individual who I actually think has served this country and this Parliament very well for many, many years. I grew up living in the Pakuranga electorate. The first time I joined a political party, it was in Maurice Williamson\u2019s electorate. When I went and worked for a member of Parliament, it was in Maurice Williamson\u2019s electorate office. If there is a model of someone as a local electorate MP who goes above and beyond every single time for his constituents to battle on their behalf, it is Maurice Williamson, the member of Parliament for Pakuranga. Sadly, Maurice\u2019s desire to be helpful, Maurice Williamson\u2019s desire to go above and beyond for individuals, has led him to go a bit too far in this case, and he is paying a very high price for that mistake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EI just want to reiterate to this House that Ministers and members of this Parliament serve extremely hard and serve very well on behalf of their constituents and the people they serve. We are all humans, though, and from time to time we make mistakes. When we make those mistakes, it is important that we bear the consequences, and that is exactly what has happened with Maurice. The Prime Minister has acted appropriately, as a Prime Minister should do, in accepting the resignation of Maurice Williamson, and Maurice Williamson did the honourable thing in resigning for the mistake he made. He is an honourable member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003ESome of the things that we have heard today from members opposite are absolutely unbelievable. To be lectured by Winston Peters about corruption is like being lectured by a lady of the night about abstinence. It is so hard to believe. I can think of only one person who had been referred to the Serious Fraud Office for donation issues, and that is Winston Peters. To have Russel Norman stand up in this House and talk about democracy being for sale, knowing that he went to Kim Dotcom\u2019s mansion and talked about intervening in the extradition process should he ever get into Government, is simply unbelievable. To have him turn up here now and talk about democracy being for sale, and to have David Cunliffe stand up and talk about donations and talk about rich\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1972c13028a40b69dae8fb2e359ba8a\u0022\u003ERichard Prosser\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I listened to the member opposite making references to Winston Peters being corrupt and I seek your guidance, Mr Speaker, as to whether they were appropriate in light of the statements that have been made about references to members being honourable, given that, certainly to my knowledge, the Rt Hon Winston Peters has never faced, let alone been convicted of, any\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f55a326060d24f3b9e269acceb88c90b\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I hear the member, and I think it is probably pertinent to just reflect on what has been said. I have been listening very carefully, and the member who was on his feet said, I think, that the member whom you are referring to made some accusations of corruption. I was listening, and I think that probably is correct, and it was pulled up at that stage. I do not think we should go back to where a point of order has been ruled on, but the member speaking did not actually accuse the member whom Richard Prosser is defending. He said that that member actually made the accusation, which I believe was correct, but I think we just need to be a bit cautious about accusations. I think Assistant Speaker Robertson made a good call and cited the Speaker\u2019s ruling that was appropriate. The debate has gone pretty well; let us just keep it on that level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220666c194f0b540fcbf2a10ce0376f4f3\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. No, I did not say what Mr Prosser thought I was saying. Perhaps he might like to listen a bit better next time. I was referring to the fact that members opposite like to lecture us about issues when they themselves know that they very much have some issues and skeletons in the closet that they need to answer for. To hear David Cunliffe talk to us about donations not being declared when we all know very well, he knows very well, and those sitting behind him know very well that he received donations during a leadership election that he subsequently was not willing to declare\u2014it is absolutely unbelievable for him to come here and lecture us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EWhen we think about those who have donated to political parties, and when we think about those people who in the past decade or so have been highlighted as those who have received favours from political parties, there are no better examples than from the time when Labour was in office. Think of names like Bill Liu. Think of names like Taito Phillip Field, who actually was convicted of a crime in this country. If Labour Party members really want to get into the subject of donations, then I suggest they go back and look through all of their bank accounts in the time when they were in office, because there were certain Ministers in their Government who knew very well what was transacted and who knew very well about decisions that were taken. The Labour Party members should not come to this House and try to appear as holy as they wish to appear, because they will come a cropper in the future, I am sure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EMinisterial standards in this Government are high. The Prime Minister has demonstrated that. Maurice Williamson has demonstrated that he is an honourable individual by bearing the consequences of his actions. I just want to put on record once again that he is a hard-working member of this Parliament. I have witnessed that firsthand, as have the people of Pakuranga. His 27 years in this House will go down as 27 years of very hard work on behalf of New Zealanders, and he should be congratulated on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022221a5f9cd2e44ceba36456e7388c8b39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022221a5f9cd2e44ceba36456e7388c8b39\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Well, that was extraordinary, was it not? Jami-Lee Ross finished his speech by congratulating a Minister who rang the police to intervene in a case of an assault by a man upon a woman. That is what Jami-Lee Ross has just done. That is the standard of the National Party\u2014to get up in this House and to defend a Minister of the Crown for going and intervening in a case about domestic violence. I think that the actions of Maurice Williamson were disgraceful. Maurice Williamson has been in this House for 27 years, and he should have known better. What is interesting to me is that regarding the standards of behaviour of Ministers in this National Government, John Key likes to crow and say \u201CI\u2019ve come down hard on this.\u201D That is only when they are caught out. It is only when they are in a corner and he has to move. It is not a high standard; it is just when they have been caught out and then suddenly he says \u201CRight, let\u2019s make sure this doesn\u2019t happen. Let\u2019s try to shut this issue down.\u201D And consistently over the 6 years of this Government, that is what has happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThey are not high ministerial standards. They are not the standards John Key told New Zealanders they would be getting under a National Government. What it describes is the kind of behaviour of a Government that thinks it is above the law and that the rules do not apply to it. The rules that apply to other New Zealanders do not apply to them. Maurice Williamson can pick up the phone and call the Counties Manukau superintendent\u2014an interesting call to make, I might add, given that the Counties Manukau superintendent actually was not in charge of the case. So I am not quite sure why Maurice Williamson rang him. Perhaps it was because Maurice Williamson thought that that was somebody whom he could influence, somebody he could use his ministerial power on to ask whether they were on solid ground because this person had given a lot of money to New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThat is the second thing that marks this National Government out. It thinks it is above the rules, and it is out to support the wealthy few. How unbelievable that someone would think that ringing the police to say this person had given a lot of money means anything at all. What it means is it speaks to the values of the National Party. It speaks to the values where money talks. This is all about the donations that the National Party receives from wealthy New Zealanders. Money talks. If you donate money, you are in a different category and the rules do not apply to you. So the National Ministers think they are above the rules and they think that people who have money are above the rules. They will do anything to look after the wealthy few in this country, and it is a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is all about the donations that the National Party gets. Mr Liu donated $22,000. In the case of Oravida with Judith Collins, we now know that the National Party has received around $85,000 from Oravida over the last few years. The relationships between the National Party and big business in this country are way too close. What New Zealanders want out of a Government, I believe, is that it will treat all citizens fairly\u2014that it will give everybody a fair go and everybody an opportunity. But with the National Party, be it an individual person or be it a business, it is the money that matters; it is not the person who matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EJudith Collins is still a Minister; Maurice Williamson is not. How can that be? Yes, Maurice Williamson crossed over a line and he deserved to go and he resigned. Judith Collins has consistently misled this Parliament, misled New Zealanders, and misled the Prime Minister about her activities in relation to Oravida. That is bad enough. Any other Minister would go. David Cunliffe mentioned today that Nick Smith went as a Minister over writing a letter of support on ministerial letterhead for someone he knew, something he should not have done. Judith Collins, on a taxpayer-funded trip to China, orchestrated three events for her husband\u2019s company, Oravida. It was a trip about justice issues. She got rid of a justice event so she could go 30 kilometres away from the airport to visit the headquarters of that company for a photo opportunity\u2014an opportunity that official documents show was to increase the profile of that company. That is a breach straight away of ministerial standards, but in addition to that, as we have rehearsed many times, she also then orchestrated a dinner where the directors of Oravida and an unnamed Chinese border official were present.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ELet us be clear: that dinner was a meeting. It was a meeting that was pre-arranged 5 days before she left New Zealand. It was a meeting that worried and concerned the New Zealand Ambassador to China and the head of the North Asia division of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade so much that even after Judith Collins changed it from being an official dinner to being a private dinner, they still wanted to provide her with a briefing. Judith Collins gave it away in the House today, did she not? She said that she told the New Zealand Ambassador the day after the dinner that nothing untoward occurred. Why would you need to tell the ambassador that nothing untoward occurred at a private dinner? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221881842883e74ac1b030fb562f2c5fbc\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Unless he was concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b7131f224534cad81e39efdd0da52eb\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The ambassador was concerned that something untoward was going to occur. No doubt that is in the notes that he provided for her. She felt the need to say that nothing untoward had occurred. Ambassador Carl Worker, in the information that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade has released, has actually quite clearly distanced himself from this dinner. So that is a Minister on a taxpayer-funded trip on justice issues who orchestrated three events\u2014she also got the directors invited to another event in Beijing\u2014while she should have been talking about justice issues. And she remains a Minister but Maurice Williamson has been sacked. That is double standards. It is not just low standards of ministerial behaviour with John Key; it is now double standards as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis Government is accumulating the impression in the minds of many New Zealanders\u2014and we have all heard it in the last week\u2014that it is who you know that matters with the National Party, it is how much money you have got that matters with the National Party, and it is whether you have donated to the National Party that will get you influence, that will get you inside the door. That is an affront to our democracy. That is against everything that New Zealanders believe about an egalitarian society where everybody gets a fair go. There is no fair go under this National Government. The way it has gone about its business, be it with Skycity or be it with Rio Tinto or wherever it is, indicates the kind of cronyism that it favours. But it is in these personal actions that we see the true colours of this National Government\u2014the true colours of a Government that will always put money before people, that will always favour the wealthy few, and where the standards that John Key told us he would apply to his Ministers have dropped to an all time low.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI want to refer briefly in that context to the actions of Judith Collins in relation to the press gallery, because they fit very much within this. Maurice Williamson resigned. John Key said he should have resigned. Judith Collins was the person left defending Maurice Williamson the other day, on Sunday. In doing so, she drew into debate a member of the press gallery and that person\u2019s family. That is one of the lowest things I have seen a Minister do among many low things in this term of Government. It is the kind of behaviour that again speaks to the fact that anything goes with the National Government if you are not one of its friends. It was petty, it was vindictive, and it was deliberate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe apology that Judith Collins has made was for a mistake. This was not a mistake. It was a deliberate act, consistent with the way that the National Government is going about its business: \u201CLet\u2019s take out people who dissent from us. Let\u2019s change the law so you can\u2019t protest. Let\u2019s change the law so that the Canterbury Regional Council isn\u2019t elected. Let\u2019s change the law so that students and staff aren\u2019t on university councils. Let\u2019s silence dissent.\u201D It is bullying, it is nasty, it is vindictive, and that is how this Government has ended up. It is a Government for the wealthy few that thinks it is above the rules and that has now no standards within its ministerial system. Maurice Williamson has resigned. That was the right thing to do. Judith Collins should follow. John Key should face up to the fact that his Government is now representative of the very wealthy few in this country and not all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002268596b8cb0c84cbe831a09618db0cc91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268596b8cb0c84cbe831a09618db0cc91\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E It is on a sad day today that I rise to speak in this debate. It is sad for a couple of reasons, the first being, of course, that Maurice Williamson\u2014who has, to date, given 27 years of service to the constituents in Pakuranga\u2014has made a mistake. He has very clearly made a mistake, he very quickly saw the error of his ways, and he has paid the price for it\u2014a very high price. I am proud as a member of his caucus and one of his parliamentary colleagues that he took swift action in acknowledging that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EBut what actually makes me more sad is what then happens in this House when a parliamentary colleague makes a mistake, says so, cops it on the chin, and resigns from being a Minister. But then what do we descend into in this House? Led by the Opposition parties, we then descend into the gutter. I actually want to reflect on comments that I will attribute to my colleague Chris Tremain. He basically said that if as a team you are unable to score points from your own success, what do you resort to? You resort to all sorts of tactics where you play the person, not the ball. That is why it is a sad day for me in the House today, because I do not think that it is ever a good day for the New Zealand public to see this kind of display, which is playing the person instead of playing the ball.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI am quite surprised, actually, that it was led by the Greens. From a political perspective, obviously they got in before Labour did. Labour was too busy sort of trying to work out its reshuffle and its realignment of players on its team, with Shane Jones moving on to a better team. Then, of course, Trevor moves up to a better position but goes back, literally within hours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI think the most appalling comment that came through today was the absolutely revolting and despicable comment from the speaker from the Green Party suggesting that anyone in this Parliament\u2014anyone in this Parliament\u2014would not do their utmost to protect the most vulnerable in our communities. That comment, I think, is an absolute disgrace. That, more than anything, has saddened me today. I think it is upsetting because, instead, this place descends into very personal attacks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI could stand here and I could list other Ministers in other Governments who have made mistakes, wittingly or unwittingly, and what has happened to them. But, actually, the New Zealand public are not interested in that. What they are interested in is the fact that we had a Minister who made a mistake, he copped it on the chin, and he has gone as a Minister. We have a Prime Minister who has very high standards for his Ministers. I think Nick Smith said that in 36 hours it was dealt with. But, actually, coming back to this whole point of the fact that Opposition members are not able to score points\u2014they cannot score points in the real game, and the real game is actually focusing on the things that matter to hard-working New Zealanders, such as the things we are doing with the Budget next week, the things that we are doing in terms of improving access to health care for hard-working New Zealanders, and for raising achievement in our schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EBut the most significant area in this debate today is in keeping our communities safer, because the very Minister whom they are gloating about today is the Minister who got $26 million worth of P off the streets of New Zealand. I think the sort of thing that New Zealanders judge their Government on is the results. This side of the House, this Government, is delivering results.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI will not take much more time, but I do want to finish on the results that also matter to hard-working New Zealanders, and they are in the area of the work that this side of the House has done on protecting very vulnerable victims. It is this side of the House that put police safety orders in place, which immediately protect women and children who are under threat from domestic violence. So it is absolutely abhorrent to me to hear the sorts of comments that came from the Greens this afternoon in this House. I am enormously proud of the results that this side of the House has achieved in terms of lowering crime rates\u2014the lowest rates in 30 years\u2014and in particular the work we have done on protecting victims, such as victims\u2019 notification, victims\u2019 protection, the victims\u2019 offenders levy, and we have put money into preventing sexual violence. We have done more than any Government previously has done in the space of domestic violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EIt is a sad day in this House, but sad for the reasons that we descend into the gutter with the Opposition speakers on a day like today, instead of acknowledging the results and focusing on the results that this Government has achieved and will continue to achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022199d32cb9ea64cca97073380cbed0ab6\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002227f11d4138de41b18e3058b2b3181255\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224aafb9c41220465b852aea033a81d5b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224aafb9c41220465b852aea033a81d5b9\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That urgency be accorded the introduction and passing of the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill. The Government has determined, after careful consideration, that this bill be progressed through all stages under urgency to address an immediate public health concern. This piece of legislation will immediately remove all interim approved psychoactive products from the market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt is not so long ago that we passed the Psychoactive Substances Bill. It passed through the House with 119 votes supporting it, and I think the general hope from MPs was that this scourge on our society would be better contained if we were to have the legislation that was proposed. Things move on, and I think it is a tribute to the whole Parliament that in the last few days there has been a considerable amount of work and effort from all sides of the House to get a bill to the House today that can be once again broadly supported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI think the work that the Hon Tony Ryall has done on behalf of Peter Dunne in the last couple of days has got us to a point where we can be confident that once this bill is passed we are as sure as we can be about removing all of this horrible product from the market. I am sure that there will be opportunities in the future for the House to continue considering this, because there will always be people who want to put these sorts of substances in the road of those who believe they need them as part of their life. With those few comments I move the motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f860251670014d86895b892c8dbb287d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That urgency be accorded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 107\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; Mana 1; United Future 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 14\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000368\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 106, Noes 15.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225363c99a419a4e59b3e7877448438917\u0022\u003EPsychoactive Substances Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d6d348ba417467a8b98e24e3e1c1e05\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb9d3a6091f242a4a2dcf5be93af794e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb9d3a6091f242a4a2dcf5be93af794e\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Associate Minister of Health: I move, That the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be set down for second reading forthwith, without being referred to a select committee. To begin I would like to thank all parties in the House for their help in bringing us to this point today. I have appreciated the great cooperation that all parties have provided in discussions around their positions and their considerations on this bill, and I think that we bring an amendment bill to the House today that the great majority of the House has indicated its willingness to support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe bill does two things. It ends all interim product approvals and interim retail and wholesale licences, and it prevents information derived from tests on animals being used to support a product approval application. The remainder of the primary legislation remains in place, and it remains the most appropriate way of dealing with emerging psychoactive substances. The bill has a few other features to support those two main aims of removing all products from the market forthwith and restricting the use of animal testing. It provides that all products that have interim approval will be recalled, and that those who have had retail or wholesale licences removed must comply with the recall. The recall order will require all licence holders, including those whose licences are cancelled by this amendment, to tell the Psychoactive Substances Regulatory Authority what products they have and confirm how they have been disposed of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe bill clarifies that the Crown is not liable for any damages or to pay any compensation as a result of the amendments. We know that some businesses will lose money as a direct result of these amendments. Our judgment is that the public health objectives outweigh those losses, and no compensation will be paid for that. It clarifies that the authority must not approve a product until regulations are in effect and unless it is satisfied that the product poses a low risk of harm. These regulations will be in place in the next few months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EWhen Parliament enacted the Psychoactive Substances Act last year, 19 votes to one, the legislation contained transitional provisions that allowed some products to stay on the market. These were products for which no serious adverse reactions had been reported. If serious adverse effects emerged later, the authority had the power to revoke approval immediately. It has used that power to remove 11 products from the market, most recently on Thursday, 1 May. Serious adverse reactions have been increasingly reported to the authorities including vomiting, seizures, and psychotic episodes. The problem that has become apparent is that it is often not possible to attribute reactions to a particular product. People call the poison centres or the centre for adverse reactions monitoring and say they took synthetic cannabis or legal highs. If the authority does not know what products caused the adverse effect, it cannot use its powers to intervene. So what we have are products that have not been tested and that are causing harm, and the Government having limited ability to intervene. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003ELast month Cabinet discussed this issue, not for the first time, and agreed that the Hon Peter Dunne would arrange for legislation to be drafted that would remove all products from the market immediately. It was always intended to allow only products that had passed rigorous testing and had been shown to pose only a low risk of harm. The interim period was intended to last only a few months while regulations were prepared. However, we still have the products on the market that have not been through any testing and it is clearly no longer tenable for this situation to continue, given that the serious adverse effects continue to be reported and that the authority is unable to respond quickly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EOn enactment this legislation will revoke all interim approvals for psychoactive products. All products currently on the market will become unapproved products with heavy penalties for manufacturing and supplying them. It will also become illegal to possess these products, so anyone thinking of stocking up today should bear that in mind. This legislation will also cancel all interim retail and wholesale licences and begin a recall of all products that had interim approval. Let us be clear here: Parliament passes the legislation, the Governor-General signs the legislation, and then at 12.01 a.m. on Thursday it becomes illegal to sell, supply, or possess illegal highs, and those products must be off the shelves. At 12.01 a.m. on Thursday it becomes illegal to sell, supply, or possess illegal highs. The products must be off the shelf. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe other thing this legislation does is stop tests on animals being used to seek approval for psychoactive products. As the Prime Minister has said, one of the reasons why we have had the delay in getting the regulations prepared is that the Government has been reluctant to sanction animal testing for these products. I am sure all members will be pleased that the bill under consideration will effectively not allow products to be tested on animals. The bill prevents the Psychoactive Substances Regulatory Authority and the Psychoactive Substances Expert Advisory Committee from having regard to information from animal trials to support the approval of psychoactive products. They cannot use any information that has come from animal testing; therefore, there is no reason to do the testing. The only exception is this: the authority may consider information undertaken from an overseas trial if that information indicates that the product may not be low risk. So the authority can consider information from an overseas trial to protect the health of individuals. It cannot consider an overseas trial to support the approval of a psychoactive substance. No one will be doing animal testing to support an application here because it will not be able to be used for consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe rest of the primary legislation remains in place. As we all know, the large number of substances and the ability of makers to rapidly change the make-up of products mean that traditional approaches do not work. In the long term, the Psychoactive Substances Act remains the best way of dealing with the problem of emerging psychoactive substances. I would like to thank all those parties in the House who have participated in this process and commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022c22a7f86fd2f4cdab4a3fd41fdaa3a10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c22a7f86fd2f4cdab4a3fd41fdaa3a10\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps it would be helpful to the House\u2019s procedure, because the Minister of Health in his speech referred to the fact that at the appropriate time he would move a truncation of the process, to say that the Leader of the House moved that urgency be accorded the introduction and passing of the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill, so the House is then tasked with every stage, and any further motions to proceed with that truncation is not necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022da7d972365e141149fdb3f7c713f40ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da7d972365e141149fdb3f7c713f40ab\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Labour will support this Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill. The two principal objectives of this bill are policies that Labour wholeheartedly endorses and supports. The first is to remove the transition provisions of the principal Act that have allowed for untested drugs to remain on the shelf and available for sale to the public. That is a position that, like other parties in the House, Labour came to in response to the overwhelming public outcry that untested drugs remained available and that their effects were unknown, and that their effects became apparent only when young people and other people using those drugs experienced the harmful side-effects of those substances. That situation really flew in the face of the principles behind the original legislation, which were that psychoactive substances would need to be tested first before they could go on the market for sale, and that the onus of proof that they were of low or no risk would lie with the manufacturers, not with the users in the community around them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe other objective of this legislation is to ban all animal testing for psychoactive substances. This is a policy that Labour has supported since the principal legislation was debated in the House, and our party, along with other parties, supported the amendment in the name of Mojo Mathers to remove animal testing, right back when we were debating the principal legislation. That amendment was blocked by National, by United Future\u2014actually, I think it was Peter Dunne, independent MP, at the time\u2014and through the abstention of the New Zealand First Party. So we could have dealt with this issue of animal testing long before today, but we are very, very happy that it has been included in this legislation\u2014again, because the Government has finally buckled to public pressure and the overwhelming pressure that has been placed upon it by Opposition parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIt is never a positive outcome when a piece of legislation has to be amended in such a short space of time after it was originally passed. The Psychoactive Substances Act was passed in July last year. It received its first reading in April last year\u2014a little over 12 months ago. At the time, after the first reading debate, there was a debate in the House around the shortened select committee period that Parliament was being given to consider the legislation. At that time, in that debate, I said I was concerned that we were rushing this legislation, that it was complex legislation, that it was novel, that no other country in the world had attempted this approach to regulating psychoactive substances, and that it was absolutely inappropriate for Parliament to be rushing the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI warned that mistakes would be made. In fact, I went back and checked out exactly what it was I said, and I said: \u201CI don\u2019t want us to be back here in 12 months\u2019 time, realising that we have made a mistake, and having to fix those mistakes up.\u201D Here we are\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b800974a7104e339677e06133052cfc\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: You said a lot of other stuff too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e452490640304bfd904dd6be187f808a\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014apologies if it is not the exact quote\u201412 months later, admitting that we made a mistake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290f1bd4cd6354c608134f8d4be2371b1\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: You supported the bill, though\u2014119 to 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b71d0fed53434dd4858d23ff3da2d55f\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Paul Hutchison makes a very important point: 119 MPs supported this bill. I supported this bill. I sat on the Health Committee and considered the issues. One of the issues was whether we should have a transition period. The select committee decided that we should. That decision was made at breakneck speed because we were given just 2 months at select committee to deal with these complex issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E We are the first country in the world dealing with this type of legislation, and the Government gave us one-third of the time that it would normally give a select committee to consider those issues. The Government will say, quite rightly, that we needed to have the legislation passed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022417fec4309ac4ef2bbfae2419fc7e699\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: What did the Labour Government do between 1999 and 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265ea4033a41e423faf11233ce0b0166b\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Mike Sabin, just be quiet and let me say what I have to say\u2014by August last year, but because the Government failed to prioritise the Psychoactive Substances Act, the legislation was brought to the House only in February last year. If we had got started in February last year, that would have given us a little bit of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EBut what the Government did was sit on that legislation from February until April, and it gave the select committee even less time to consider the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4d48747bf9a40498dd19dae44fa1f1c\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: What did the member\u2019s party do until 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3e33bbeb3864b228f4b4db8c4e63c9a\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: What the member\u2019s party did until 2008 was ask the Law Commission to do a complete review of the Misuse of Drugs Act because we understood that the Misuse of Drugs Act was no longer capable of dealing with the number and variety of drugs that were available for supply in the 21st century. That is what the Labour Government did. We asked the independent Law Commission to go away and figure out what the best way forward was. The Law Commission came back in April 2011 with a comprehensive report, one chapter\u2014just one chapter\u2014of which is the precursor to the Psychoactive Substances Act. It took that Government 2 years to take the recommendations on psychoactive substances from the Law Commission\u20142 years to bring that legislation before the House\u2014and then it said to Parliament: \u201CI\u2019m sorry, but you\u2019re going to have to rush this.\u201D That is why mistakes were made\u2014because that Government did not prioritise getting these drugs off the streets. That is why Parliament made a mistake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI am happy to say that I was one of the MPs who voted for that legislation, and it was the right thing to do because had we not passed that legislation, then all those drugs would still be out there\u2014not 41 but about 300 different drugs would still be out there if we had not passed the legislation. But it was not perfect, and one of the main reasons it was not perfect was that the select committee was not given time to consider it properly, and the select committee did not have time because that Government did not make this a priority. That is a fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe other reason we are back here today is that having implemented the legislation, the Government then made an absolute dog\u2019s breakfast of resourcing it, giving the Ministry of Health the tools it needed, and getting the regulations sorted out. One of the reasons we hear for why it has taken so long to get the regulations sorted out is that John Key was uncomfortable with animal testing. But it was National that blocked the amendments that would have stopped animal testing. So if we had gone back and got the legislation right in the first place, if National had voted for Mojo Mather\u2019s amendment, then we would not have had to delay the regulation-making process because John Key would not have had to worry about animal testing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe other thing the Government has failed to do is use the provisions in the current legislation to get rid of unsafe drugs. It got rid of five at the beginning of the year\u2014well done; not bad\u2014but then, after the announcement that the law was going to be changed, it got rid of another six. That just smacks of an under-resourced Ministry of Health, incapable of properly implementing the original legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis has been a shambles from the National Government from the very beginning\u2014its failure to respond to the Law Commission\u2019s report, its slow response as to when one was finally coming, the rushed select committee process that caused mistakes in the legislation, and then the shambolic implementation of the legislation once it was finally passed. Make no mistake, New Zealand, the reason why we have got untested, unsafe drugs still on our streets is that National has made a hash of this from day one. And the reason for that is that it never prioritised this issue. It was never important to National. It has always been a rush job. Here is another rush job, and it is simply a reflection of the fact that making sure our young people are safe from drugs that have a high risk of causing harm was never a priority for this Government. That is why we are in the mess we are in today, and that is why we are having to clean it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u00229dd7ede16c4a492ab04479e080425e87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229dd7ede16c4a492ab04479e080425e87\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Iain Lees-Galloway tends to be a little shrill about a very complex matter of regulating drugs effectively, which the Labour Government certainly failed to do in 9 long years. No matter how much Mr Iain Lees-Galloway rants and raves, this is a complex area, and countries around the world are wrestling with the best and most effective ways of minimising harm from psychoactive substances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI must say that when the Health Committee heard submissions on the Psychoactive Substances Bill last year, New Zealanders up and down the country came to the select committee saying how they were deeply concerned for the children of New Zealand and the adolescents who were using psychoactive substances, because of the serious adverse effects\u2014none more so than the Mayor of Timaru, who came up to Wellington and said that it was the No. 1 problem in her community of Timaru and that the parents and the whole community were begging her to do something about it. After all, the aim of the original legislation was to minimise harm from psychoactive substances and protect the public health. It was regarded as highly innovative legislation, and a huge amount of thought had been put into it, but, as I said before, this is a very complex issue that no Government that I know of anywhere in the world has managed to get on top of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI agree and accept that politically there is a very strong call for banning psychoactive substances. The reality is that under the circumstances where there is a danger that they will be driven underground\u2014and it is a very real danger\u2014there is a concern that we must have the infrastructure and services available to look after those people who have withdrawal problems. And it is important to resource the police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThere are several ironies relating to this legislation, the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill. As John Roughan pointed out in the New Zealand Herald, it is somewhat extraordinary that one would ban cannabis and yet cannabinoids, synthetic cannabis, which is often many times more potent than the natural weed, was legal. So it is entirely appropriate that we are, indeed, addressing this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EOne of the major tenets of this bill was that manufacturers are required to demonstrate minimal risk to humans who use so-called party pills or legal highs, and this legislation is about risk management. However, to demonstrate minimal risk in 2014 does require the possibility of some animal testing. We had huge debate in this House regarding that. The Psychoactive Substances Expert Advisory Committee was absolutely clear that, unfortunately, despite the rhetoric of the Greens and the anti-vivisectionists, in 2014 there are not substantive tests available that can demonstrate minimal risk. Professor Robson from the expert advisory committee, Professor Gluckman, and the Ministry of Health all acknowledge that to be the case and that it may be several years before we have alternatives that are effective to demonstrate minimal harm. However, in the meantime we are doing the appropriate thing in taking psychoactive substances off the shelves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI do want to mention that there are some wider safety, scientific, and economic issues at stake around the passing of this bill, because there is no doubt in my mind that if New Zealand is to say that science is at the centre of Government and we are going to continue to have high standards around the medicines and drugs we use, it is fundamental to insist that these medications undergo rigorous testing according to best-practice scientific methods, which today, as I have said, does indeed require\u2014to the best of our knowledge\u2014animal testing. We hope that this can be replaced, and the legislation was very clear that it should be minimised if, indeed, it was needed. We hope that technology will advance rapidly and allow it not to be necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EBut the erosion of these principles in the pharmaceutical and biological engineering field can lead to the erosion of standards and opportunities in the health sector, in the agricultural sector, in the biosecurity sector, and in the innovative sector. I remember well the debates around the Environmental Risk Management Authority and the hazardous substances and new organisms legislation some years ago where the Greens wanted to exercise the precautionary principle to the zenith degree, with the result that New Zealand\u2019s capability and capacity in the area of biotechnology have been reduced. This does mean a reduced capability in the agricultural and biosecurity area. It is also ironic that the Greens talk about this precautionary principle for offshore drilling and, indeed, as I say, in the biological engineering area, but when it comes to party pills, they are not so worried about the standards that are used. These pills, or substances, are used on adolescents\u2019 developing brains when they are at their most sensitive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThere is no doubt that this amendment bill is a practical response to the fact that ordinary New Zealanders up and down the country do not want psychoactive substances to be available legally. I feel very strongly that the House is supporting this bill, and it is an irony that the Greens are abstaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00225da8adbb883e42fe82235f4307b411a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225da8adbb883e42fe82235f4307b411a2\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Labour\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Labour will support the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill through all stages, and we have also today supported the urgency motion for the passage of this bill. You cannot say that you want action in a hurry and then not support urgency for this bill, but I think there needs to be a little bit of background about this bill before we get into the details of it. Last month a number of us\u2014in fact, I believe, probably all the colleagues in the House\u2014received a letter from the Hon Peter Dunne. It started off with \u201CDear Colleague\u201D. The date of the letter was 15 April last month. He said he wanted to update us on the progress and the achievements of the Psychoactive Substances Act 2013. He went on to say that a blanket ban on yet-to-be-developed psychoactive substances would be very difficult to implement and to enforce, particularly as it will relate to products or substances that do not yet exist, etc., etc. He then went on to blame local government because the implementation had not occurred as fast as he would have liked, and he went on to say he knows there are pockets of frustration, but remember the Act is only 9 months old. That was on 15 April. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThere was no intention by the Minister in charge of this legislation, Peter Dunne, who put the legislation through the House, to make any changes based on information and, I have to say, a very, very detailed fact sheet\u2014a fact sheet that tells us what has happened since the Act came into effect on 18 July, what the Psychoactive Substances Regulatory Authority is doing, and the transition to regulations. In fact, under this part it said that the authority is operating a temporary system of controls called the interim regime, etc., etc. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWhat has happened here is that members on the back bench were putting pressure on Cabinet to make some changes\u2014because maybe the backbenchers were listening to their constituents. That is something that was happening right across this Parliament. We were being told that we had got it wrong and that we needed to make changes. That went on for months and months. The pressure built. The pressure on the backbenchers built. Their constituents were telling them what the problems were, and the reports were coming out in the media on a daily basis. So from 15 April\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ced7b61cb334ce2a233ab14a2703e85\u0022\u003ELouisa Wall\u003C/span\u003E: And Todd McClay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ada2695f58142f295358befb70a2eeb\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: And Todd McClay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022166e35bdc57e4e49bcc85786f34ce934\u0022\u003ELouisa Wall\u003C/span\u003E: In Rotorua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294a863960d5946578cf557d124e779c0\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Todd McClay\u2014a Minister\u2014was probably one of the Ministers who did know what was happening. But the pressure was going on, in a very, very strong way, to the backbenchers. So then there needed to be an action, and this is where I find it rather difficult. When you read the letter, there is nothing about getting this changed at all. Then you hear from the Minister of Health that we have been discussing this issue last month\u2014and we did it more than once. We did it several times. Minister, was it after 15 April, when we received the letter? The question that in Committee we can ask is whether Peter Dunne was in the loop. Why was he telling us: \u201CNo need for change. Everything\u2019s going well. We\u2019re pretty pleased with what is happening.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThen I read the regulatory impact statement that the Ministry of Health has put out. It is dated 4 May 2014, I think. The ministry wrote that after Cabinet was looking at this issue, so it did not actually give this advice to Cabinet before it made the decision. And the regulatory impact statement is very interesting. It says that we do not have all the information we need to fully assess the impacts of this proposal, we do not know the number or the proportion of people, we do not know the exact date the regulations will be made, we do not know the impact on other regulatory actions, we cannot say how much enforcement work is needed by the police, and, finally, we do not know what proportion of people use these products or what the effect will be, and there has been no formal review of this proposal planned. So in the Committee stage, Minister, I would like you to answer all those questions, because you have been working on it for a long time before you have brought this bill to the House, and we are going to have to trust your word on this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EIt was very clear when the original bill was brought into this House and my colleague Iain Lees-Galloway warned that if we did not take time and care over this bill, we would get it wrong. He made that very strong warning in all the speeches that he made. He also said that we had the opportunity at the Health Committee to get it right and not to rush it. He asked for it not to be rushed, and there was no need to rush it, Minister, because it was back in October 2012 that you got the first regulatory impact statement from the Ministry of Health. It took until April the next year for the bill to be introduced\u20146 months later\u2014and that original regulatory impact statement said this: \u201CCurrent legislation has proved ineffective in dealing with the rapid growth in new psychoactive substances, such as party pills and other legal highs, which can be synthesised to be one step ahead of existing controls. Cabinet has agreed to new legislation to address this by prohibiting the sale of all\u201D\u2014all\u2014\u201Cpsychoactive substances unless approved by a regulator.\u201D So, back in October 2012, this is what it said Cabinet had agreed to\u2014that it would have new legislation prohibiting the sale of all psychoactive substances unless approved by a regulator. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EIt went on to say: \u201CThe new legislation will reduce risks to the public by removing untested and potentially harmful products from being sold \u2026\u201D, etc. That is dated October 2012. Six months later we got the bill, and it was rushed through the Health Committee, I believe, in about 2 months. So what we are seeing here is when the chooks do come home to roost. Sometimes, even if it is said by Opposition members and the Government does not wish to take much notice of them, maybe they ought to be listened to, because we are back here trying to fix something that maybe we could have got right in the original bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThere was then an interjection, I believe, by one of the backbenchers over there of \u201CWell, what did Labour do about it? Labour did nothing about it.\u201D Well, I can tell you that Labour did do something about psychoactive substances. They had been around for about 15 years and they were legal. They were\u2014[Bell rung] Sorry, Mr Assistant Speaker, I thought you were telling me my time was up, but I have got\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dcabda8734e42f1b233c540fcee3e45\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, 2 more minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216f9061b5c494575ace71b7040cfa4a2\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: \u20142 minutes. Legal highs were legal because the Misuse of Drugs Act bans only substances that are specifically listed in the legislation. Attempts were made under a Labour Government to ban, using the Misuse of Drugs Act, such things as benzylpiperazine, and they were replaced very quickly by a new product. So we did ask the Law Commission to undertake a comprehensive review of the Misuse of Drugs Act. It was completed and given to this Government in 2011, I believe, and then the Government took till 2013 to do something about it. It recommended that we did make changes to the Misuse of Drugs Act. The Government has chosen not to do that and put in place a very narrow bill, which now needs to be changed. I am pleased that it is being changed. I am particularly pleased for Trevor Mallard, who, with Mojo Major, went out to bat strongly against animal testing, and I have to give some credit to John Banks. I do not always agree with the language that he uses, but there is no doubt that he does have passion for animals, as does my colleague Trevor Mallard and Mojo Major\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da8c1b6b68fd46598e41f5dc031dc9e7\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Mathers!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022955ee36016bd4bfdaf348596b98f2cc8\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014sorry, Mojo\u2014Mojo Mathers, who raised this issue on a number of occasions. So we are back here now to fix this problem. I would like to see it fixed as fast as possible, but there are some questions that need to be answered by the Government around the delay and around answers to the questions that have been posed in the regulatory impact statement of May, which was put out just a few days ago by the Ministry of Health. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022 data-id=\u002215a0e6a331734a8c87e09133776b1fca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215a0e6a331734a8c87e09133776b1fca\u0022\u003EMOJO MATHERS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I will be upfront. Today we had a difficult decision at caucus. This Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill has been difficult for us, because on the one hand the Green Party totally welcomes the Government\u2019s U-turn on the animal testing of these drugs. In particular, I am thrilled that the Government has finally adopted in substance the amendment that I put up on the Psychoactive Substances Bill last year, which ruled out the use of information from animal testing to support an application. I note that the Government voted then against that amendment, and I know that thousands of New Zealanders are celebrating now because the Government has finally done a U-turn on this decision. But, on the other hand, we know that the other clauses in this bill around prohibition of the sale of these drugs will create a dangerous black market in these drugs. Later today my colleague, and health spokesperson, Kevin Hague will speak further on our concerns around these provisions. So, after careful deliberation between the two fairly different clauses in the bill, we have decided to abstain from voting, but we do want to affirm our total support for the Government decision to back down on animal testing of party pills and legal highs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EThis decision is absolutely the right one. We are thrilled that the Government has finally listened to the tens of thousands of New Zealanders who raised their voices against the testing of these products on animals. The depth of public feeling on this issue was highlighted last year, when more than 60,000 people signed a petition calling for animal testing of party pills to be ruled out. People in their tens of thousands have marched, signed petitions, emailed MPs, and written letters, and finally, just over a year later, the Government has got it: animal testing is an issue that is not going to go away. The Government decision to rule out animal testing is morally and ethically the right one. It will ensure that thousands of animals will not be subject to the extreme suffering that is involved in toxicology testing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the process that happened last year when the Psychoactive Substances Bill came up, because at that time many animal welfare organisations and people put in considerable time and effort to write substantive submissions on that bill, on the issue of animal testing. They did this in good faith on the advice of the Minister in charge of the bill, Peter Dunne, and Ministry of Health officials that the best way for concerns around animal testing to be addressed was via the submissions process. Unbelievably, after all this effort their submissions were ruled out of order, rejected by the chair of the Health Committee as not relevant, and returned to them. These people were devastated that their democratic right to be heard had been rejected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EIn response the Green Party held our own hearings to hear the evidence that the select committee did not get to hear. The information that was presented at these hearings was well researched and directly relevant to the substance of this bill, and should never have been excluded. We wrote a report that we presented to the Health Committee that summarised these submissions, and we concluded that a clause should be added to this bill ruling out the use of information from animal testing to support an application. I put up an amendment doing just that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003ERuling out animal testing is the best decision in the best interests of both animals and people. The reality is that the results of animal testing are notoriously unreliable. Because of this, in 2008 the United States Environmental Protection Agency, the National Institutes of Health, and the Food and Drug Administration started a process to replace all toxicology testing on animals with non-animal tests, because these tests produce results that are more relevant to humans and therefore more reliable. They are able to do this because the technology and safety testing have come a long way in the last 20 years. Despite what a previous speaker said, the alternatives to animal testing are many and include in vitro human cell line studies, computer models, micronucleus assays, in vitro absorption tests, and so on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EWe cannot claim to be world leaders in animal welfare when other countries are so far ahead of us. The United Kingdom has a ban on animal testing of recreational substances, and this includes tobacco and alcohol, on the grounds that such testing of recreational products is unethical and immoral. This ban has helped drive much of the development and research into non-animal testing of drugs. They have also confirmed directly with us that their ban will also apply to psychoactive substances when these drugs are intended for recreational use. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EOne reason why animal testing continues to be carried out for most toxicology testing in New Zealand is that many of the non-animal tests are more expensive than animal tests. For example, we heard at the hearings evidence from someone who wanted a product tested, and when they took it to be tested for safety they were told it would cost $10,000 to test it using animals. When she said she did not want to use animals, she was then informed it would cost $30,000 to test it using non-animal tests rather than those tests. So cost is the main driver of using animal tests in toxicology testing in New Zealand, despite what people will tell you to the opposite. Basically, our argument all along has been that decisions around safety testing should not be based on protecting the profit margins of the party pill industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EJust prior to the Psychoactive Substances Bill being debated last year, someone sent me an undercover video of toxicology testing being undertaken on beagles in the United States. Although it was not the most gruesome animal testing video that I have seen, it was definitely the saddest. Seeing these beautiful, affectionate animals, barely out of the puppy stage, confined alone in bleak, stainless steel cages, forced to ingest drugs every day that made them feel sick, and then killed for dissection, was gut-wrenching and utterly heartbreaking. Make no mistake, toxicology testing on animals causes a really high level of suffering. Once you have seen what has happened to animals in toxicology testing you cannot un-see it. This video confirmed for me what I have always believed\u2014that testing for trivial purposes is utterly and completely indefensible. I know that there are thousands of decent New Zealanders out there who share that conviction. This is what has driven us to march in the streets and drives our passion. The great thing about prohibiting animal testing of recreational drugs is that it will drive innovation and uptake of non-animal testing in New Zealand, something that needs to happen and is long overdue. The animals deserve it from us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022 data-id=\u00225e2edaa18307469cacba9ad7541d3d1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e2edaa18307469cacba9ad7541d3d1f\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BANKS (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E This is a surreal time in the history of this Parliament. If we were to close our eyes for a moment and think back 8 months, there was a clamour in this House to enable the importers and the retailers of these mind-altering chemicals to have an opportunity to go out and exploit the vulnerable, the poor, the lonely, and the dispossessed, and to sell them these dangerous, mind-altering chemicals for a profit, and watch them slowly and progressively, in front of their families and in their communities, go mad\u2014go mad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EIt was TV3\u2019s Campbell Live programme that, by instalments, showed every member of this Parliament the madness of the decision that was taken 8 months ago by 120 members of this House to give this social experiment a burl. It has been a failure. The process we are going through this afternoon is a time-honoured process of dead rat swallowing. We got it wrong. I voted against it, but we got it wrong. I said taiho, but we got it wrong. I said that it was a crazy thing to do, but we got it wrong. This Parliament got it wrong. It got it wrong. It got it badly wrong. Night after night on TV3 at 7 o\u2019clock we saw the madness of what this Parliament did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EThe greed-driven drug importers and retailers were making a fortune, and many of our young and vulnerable people were behaving like fruit-loops\u2014like fruit-loops. So I say again in this Parliament today that we have got to get it right. We owe it to these young people who are lonely, depressed, out of work, out of hope, and looking for an opportunity to refresh their lives and give themselves some sense of worth. But taking drugs like mind-altering substances will not do it, and I am stating that on the record in Parliament today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EIt is a bad idea to take these substances. It is a bad idea to drink far too much alcohol. It is a bad idea to smoke cigarettes. It is very expensive. In my long life I have never met anyone who has had an addiction to drugs, alcohol, tobacco, or to any mind-altering substances\u2014I have not met one person in my long life\u2014who has said that it has made a difference, that they feel good about it, and that it has changed their life for the good. Not one person has ever said that to me. So we should proceed with this bill, the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EI suppose, on a lighter note, I can thank Moonbeam the cat\u2014the Prime Minister\u2019s cat. That beautiful animal runs around his home in Parnell in the centre of my electorate, and when the Prime Minister comes home from work each week he looks at that cat and says that he could not possibly allow that animal to be tortured to death in the name of, and at the altar of, a mind-altering drug experiment. Coming back, he said that it cannot happen to beagle puppies and that it will not, and that it cannot happen and should not happen to rabbits, and now it will not. New Zealand is now saying no to animal testing for these mind-altering fun drugs, which is exactly what I\u2014and to be fair, some of my colleagues\u2014begged this Parliament to do 8 months ago. The numbers did not fall our way and the Mad Hatter\u2019s tea party began. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EThis Parliament should apologise to the young and the vulnerable, the sick and the poor, and those people looking for a high in life when there is so much low. We should be apologising to them today for giving them, and selling them, a fraud. Taking drugs to make you feel better is a fraud, and we in this Parliament should be role models and saying no to these mind-altering drugs. If these substances have to be tested to make sure that they are safe, and whether they are necessary\u2014and they are not\u2014then we should never, ever sacrifice any animal at the altar of an experiment to try to prove that they are safe. The bottom line is\u2014and everyone knows this in this House\u2014that these substances will never be safe. These substances will never be safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EThe original bill was well intentioned\u2014I will gave that much credit to this House\u2014in that it sought to ensure that psychoactive substances are safe, but it was deeply flawed\u2014deeply flawed. All the assumptions were deeply flawed. Every single member of Parliament who voted for it should stand up this afternoon and say that they got it wrong. I am prepared, as a member of this House, to say that I voted against it but we got it wrong. So we can put it right. The Prime Minister took leadership on the weekend and said that the Government is going to get it right, so full marks to the Prime Minister. It is 8 months overdue, but full marks to the Prime Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003ESo what have we got here, in the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill? Animals cannot be tested in this country to prove that these things are safe. You will never prove that these things are safe as long as the cows start walking home, because they will never be safe. We should say in this Parliament today that these are dangerous substances and they will never be safe, no matter what experiment you use and what jurisdiction it comes from. They will never be safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EAs for evidence of harm\u2014there is plenty of evidence of harm. We do not need to sacrifice beagle puppies on a gurney, with their ears stapled to the ground, and gas being pumped into them until they get to the LD50\u2014half of them expire\u2014to know that these substances are dangerous. We all know they are dangerous. The Assistant Speaker knows they are dangerous. Every member of Parliament knows they are dangerous. Our fine Minister of Health knows they are dangerous. We are taking them off the shelf. I know that there will be people out there who will say that it is their right to smoke this, to suck that, to inhale this, and to drink something else. But it is our responsibility to say to people that it is bad for their health and to be very careful\u2014very, very careful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EThis bill is a vast improvement, on the animal welfare front, on the original, flawed bill. We have not actually taken the opportunity to slam shut the door on animal testing, because animal testing done offshore that is detrimental to the safety of one of these substances can be used to turn that substance down. I ask the Minister and I ask the Government whether they would say \u201CLet\u2019s do that and go back from today\u2014but not for the future\u2014so, as of midnight tonight, these drugs that have been tested on hapless beagle puppies and proved to be unsafe is a reason for us turning them down.\u201D But we should have said in this bill that no evidence from any animal testing from any part of the world will ever form part of a decision to give the tick for one of these dangerous substances. That is what I wanted, and maybe in 10 years\u2019 time when I am back again we can revisit this legislation and do it again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EWhat I want to do is finish as I began. I am going to accept my part of the responsibility for the Mad Hatters\u2019 tea party that we have inflicted across the country on so many of the participants. It has been a bad experiment, and this Parliament got it badly wrong. But today we are fixing the wrong, because we can all make errors of judgment and mistakes. New Zealand says to the rest of the world today that, first and foremost, we do not believe that there should be any animal testing on any product under any circumstances, unless it is for pharmaceutical lifesaving reasons, because we believe in respect for all animals. We believe in the sanctity and the dignity of all the animals\u2014however big or small\u2014that we share this world with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b53f8451-a5f8-4e92-851f-9ca381f19343\u0022\u003EThat is the message from this Parliament\u2014we are not going to sacrifice animals at the altar of mind-altering drugs. We are saying no to drugs today, and we are telling young people that taking drugs is a very, very risky business and that this Parliament\u2019s responsibility is to try to help educate them on that front. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u002200987cab0c7d4f03bba4d5ccda57df7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200987cab0c7d4f03bba4d5ccda57df7c\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I stand on behalf of New Zealand First to take a call on the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill. We all know in this House that psychoactive substances are a blight on New Zealand society, and, at long last, this legislation will take these products off the shelves. There is little doubt that Parliament\u2014and we are accepting our role in this\u2014made an error with the previous legislation. We should have included a safety requirement in the legislation that these substances be proven to be safe prior to being available for sale, and, of course, we should have had an animal welfare aspect in it as well. We are pleased that amendments have been made, and we are committed to ensuring that this bill passes through the House as soon as possible so that these products can be taken off the shelves and right away from young people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ELegal high manufacturers and resellers should definitely not be rolling in profits while the users are becoming a burden on our health system and experiencing dangerous withdrawals and terrible effects, and, of course, many of them are committing crimes in our neighbourhood so that they can continue to purchase these substances. It is just not good enough. None of this should ever have happened. This legislation should be right at this particular time, and we are very pleased that urgency has been accorded to this particular legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIronically, we heard through the select committee process for the original bill how difficult it was to remove all of the products from sale and off the shelves. We will not deny that this is not easy. It never is easy, but, at last, today we have actually done something in this Parliament. We are pleased that urgency has been accorded to this particular bill. We have had so many constituents coming to our offices almost daily to tell of their trials and tribulations with these products. We have heard from parents at their wits\u2019 end, unable to keep their families functioning. It has been so sad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First believes that the Government now owes it to the people of our country to ensure that there are dedicated services for people whose lives have been negatively impacted by the presence of legal highs\u2014addiction services and counselling for parents and families who want to get their lives back on track. This has been a terrible experiment. We guarantee that there is a need for these services back in the community. It is not easy for anyone, and it will not be easy for anyone until these addictive substances are out of the system of everybody who is taking them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWhen the Psychoactive Substances Bill was passed in Parliament we all believed that it was going to prevent the kinds of harm that our communities are experiencing. We have been too slow, basically, in removing these products from sale, but we are pleased that the day has come when they are removed. To that end, we are very glad to be here today to fix the mess that has been created while we waited for the law to take effect. I was delighted to hear the Hon Tony Ryall say that from Thursday these products will not be available for sale in any shop in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe are absolutely rapt to hear that manufacturers have to prove that their products are safe, and that no animals are going to be unduly tested to ensure that the products are safe. \u201CLow risk\u201D is a subjective term that we do have some qualms about, and if that term is not changed, perhaps the legislation will be back in Parliament again so that we can change it. We cannot afford to again expose our people in New Zealand to products that are not safe. These products need to undergo a testing regime that is similar to the pharmaceutical regime\u2014very thorough and very detailed. We also support the new laws that prevent any information from animal testing being used for recreational drugs. This should really set a precedent for the future, and alternatives to animal testing must be explored now, with this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIn closing, we are very happy in New Zealand First to finally see some progress, which we hope will immediately benefit the people who are putting themselves in danger by using these untested psychoactive substances. New Zealand First has said very strongly right from the beginning that we believe that these products need to be banned. It is important for action to be swift. We are delighted that it is, and, hopefully, by the end of the day, we will know, and can rest assured, that from Thursday we will ensure that our communities and our people are safe right through New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1aa39b5b7254c1290ab1cd170c2ec3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1aa39b5b7254c1290ab1cd170c2ec3b\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Let us take a little bit of a history lesson with the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill, and go back to the late 1990s, when psychoactive substances\u2014so-called legal highs\u2014emerged in New Zealand. They were a very new entity and it took until 2008 for benzylpiperazine, or BZP, to essentially be banned through use of the Misuse of Drugs Act schedules. Those legal highs were taken off the shelf, but the manufacturers of legal highs had already worked out that they could circumvent the legislation by altering the chemical compounds of these drugs, and already had a strategy, basically, to beat that legislation. They have successfully done so for many years since then, in the cat and mouse game in terms of these drugs always falling outside the current legislation, the Misuse of Drugs Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EIn July 2013 the Psychoactive Substances Bill was Peter Dunne\u2019s and this Government\u2019s effort to say: \u201CLet\u2019s take away the ability for them to do that and put the onus on them to prove that these products are safe.\u201D In my view, that standard of proof should be a very, very high one. Ultimately, what it really resulted in was a situation whereby in order for psychoactive substances to be available, they had to have gone through a rigorous process, including clinical testing and tests on animals, so that they could be passed through as a low-risk product at the end. It is my belief that the starting point should always have been\u2014and it certainly has been, in my mind\u2014that we did not want these drugs out there, but by reversing the onus, it took away the ability for the drug manufacturers to hold all the tools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003ESo we got ourselves into a territory through this new model where essentially we are blazing new territory in world drug policy. Everyone knows that, and, actually, many people around the world are looking at New Zealand. So it is sort of, if you like, pioneering stuff. It is not an easy track to take. If people had the answers to this, they would have been trotted out many, many years ago. So we have gone down this track. Of course, with the benefit of hindsight, we can accept that the products that were allowed to stay on the shelf as part of the transitional regime were dangerous. We are dealing with chemicals, compounds, and combinations thereof that are virtually unknown to science. It does not surprise me that we saw this sort of level of harm emerge once the bulk of the other ones were removed. This Government has moved quickly to actually say, that being the case, we need to get those off the shelf and recalibrate. Part of that recalibration is accepting that removing animal testing raises the bar. I have no problem with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EIf that means that some will go underground as a consequence of this, then so be it, because I say to members in this House and I say to members of the public that there will always be some who do not obey laws regardless of what they are, but, in the main, laws are there to guide society and to guide people who do obey laws as to what is right and what is wrong. Therefore, the laws are really about providing consequences to those lawless people who will not obey them regardless of what they are. Not making laws because the lawless will not follow them anyway is not what we should do. What we should be doing is intending to guide the law-abiding citizens and ensure that the direction that we believe is safe and appropriate is the track that they go down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EAlthough there will be some unintended consequences in terms of the degree of use underground, that will always happen regardless of what the drug is and regardless of what the law is, because there will always be some who do not obey the laws regardless of what they are. This is not so much of a U-turn as it is actually responding to what is pioneering legislation and difficult legislation, because we are trying to get ahead of the ability for drug makers to spin their chemical mixtures well ahead of legislative responses, so it is pragmatic and it does respond to the concerns of community. I commend members in the House. I am actually disgusted that the Green Party is taking the approach that it is in this particular debate given the harms that it is causing out here. But I commend this as being a solution to an ongoing and evolving problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3505a300731434e8a09845b5fe06a6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3505a300731434e8a09845b5fe06a6b\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Let us call it what it is. This Government got the Psychoactive Substances Act wrong. This Government got the law wrong. The Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill is an unprecedented U-turn\u2014an unprecedented U-turn\u2014by a shaky Government. Of course we support it. Of course we support it, because we made the Government do it. We made it do it, alongside the tens of thousands of people in every community around New Zealand, the desperate families, the Campbell Live show\u2014yes, John Campbell and the Campbell Live show\u2014the radio stations, and the newspapers, including my own newspaper in Dunedin, the Otago Daily Times. This is the result of community pressure. This Government got the law terribly wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhen we voted for the original legislation, we did so on the basis that it would rid our community of these substances. But what happened? They went out of the dairies, but instantly a whole lot of new outlets\u201447\u2014popped up. They got pretty much instant interim licences, and many of them are now selling only legal highs. Eight of those were in Dunedin. One of those is in south Dunedin, and it is situated next to SF Otago, which is a community mental health facility. It has caused huge numbers of problems in the Dunedin community. [Interruption] I challenge the member across the House who lives in Dunedin to say that it has not. He laughs at the Opposition over here for raising this issue. It popped up a week after the Psychoactive Substances Act was passed, and it has created a massive number of problems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhat else have we seen? What have we seen since then? Attempts to try to get that facility closed have failed, because the Ministry of Health said that it could not do anything about it. The Dunedin City Council said that its hands were tied. Meanwhile, a Psychoactive Substances Regulatory Authority, a very small group of people, was formed in the corner of an open-plan office in the Ministry of Health to try to manage these issues\u2014it is trying to manage them unsuccessfully. And what did it do? It gave licences to 47 outlets. It reduced around 300 substances to 42. It did not put in place a testing regime. Of those 42 substances that remained on the shelves in these purpose-built opened facilities with the interim licences from the Ministry of Health, they had even worse substances that were given the licences to be sold. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI want to show you the monthly report from the National Poisons Centre. In fact, here is a colour version of the graph, because it is a much better version for the people watching at home. The bar graph in red is the number of calls made to the National Poisons Centre in April of this year. It is higher than any number of calls that were made all throughout the last couple of years. From August last year when the Act was passed, the numbers have consistently been high. What they show is that the substances that have been left on the shelves have been more concentrated, have been more deadly, and have had worse and worse effects on people in our community. We are seeing worse effects from withdrawal. We are seeing people vomiting for days, unable to eat and unable to sleep. Psychiatrists are reporting that up to 40 percent of patients that they are seeing are related to legal highs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThese are shocking, shocking statistics. They are shocking concerns for our country. It was a shocking state of affairs to see the legislation pass through this House, legislation from a Government that claimed that it was going to sort this problem out. We are now hearing that there are fears that the long-term effects of these psychoactive substances may be permanent, and that there needs to be a lot more research done on this. There needs to be a lot more resources put into this. But what happened? What happened back in July last year when we raised these issues in the debate on the Psychoactive Substances Bill as it passed before the House? We raised the issues of the importance of providing more resources to the health system, and what happened? Nothing. Nothing happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI will read to you what was said in this House by me during the second reading of the Psychoactive Substances Bill. I said: \u201CI was invited to and attended a symposium in Dunedin at the Wakari Hospital, which is run by the district health board and mental health services, and it included people working in inpatient services, community-based mental health services, emergency psychiatric services, specialist alcohol and drug services, and others. \u2026 They said that synthetic cannabis was a clinical burden on health services, that emergency department patients had cyclical vomiting and seizures from smoking synthetic cannabis, and that many of the patients had experienced delayed seizures up to a day after smoking synthetic cannabis.\u201D They said that there was an increased demand on the health services. We said, and we had put into the commentary on the Psychoactive Substances Bill, that there would be an increased demand on the health services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhere has the reponse been from this Government around dealing with that increased demand? What did it do? It created a small group of people who sat in the corner of an open-plan office in the Ministry of Health and could not deal with the situation that they had been left with as the result of the bill passing. We raised these issues back in August. The National Poisons Centre has told us that the incidence of severe effects is going up and up every single month. A report produced in a recent edition of New Zealand Doctor magazine, written by Leo Schep, who is the toxicologist at Dunedin Hospital and who is widely considered reputable and credible on these issues, said that \u201CThe ease of access and legal availability of these products has \u2026 created a substantial increase in the numbers of patients attending emergency departments and medical centres \u2026 The National Poisons Centre \u2026 had more calls last year about synthetic cannabinoids than any other single drug of abuse category.\u201D He went on to describe the effects, which I have just read out, but what he also raised is that there is serious concern about the risk of causing ongoing neuro-psychiatric effects. This is one of the reasons that we had to get the legislation right, and we did not get it right. The Government did not get it right last year. We have to get it right this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhere are the resources? Where are the resources that are going to be provided in our communities after this bill is passed? Hopefully it will be passed and it will receive the Royal assent late on Wednesday night or early on Thursday morning, which will make every single one of these substances unauthorised\u2014unauthorised\u2014and they will need to be taken off the shelves. There will be 2 weeks for there to be inspections of all those licensed premises to ensure that the substances are gone. Where are the resources, though, in our health system that are going to be dealing with the effects? Where is the Government on this? Where is the Government saying that it is going to put increased health resources into the community? This is a no-brainer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThere was a second U-turn this week\u2014I know that my colleagues have talked about this\u2014and that was in respect of the 46,000 people over 48 hours who signed a petition to ban animal testing. That, again, is a no-brainer. This is a bill that we must pass. We must get it through this House this week, but the Government needs to own up and say that it got the original legislation wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3a0bf807c8b4695a84c77c5a19c9d2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3a0bf807c8b4695a84c77c5a19c9d2f\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E It is my intention to take just a short call on the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill in the name of the Minister of Health, the Hon Tony Ryall. In doing so, I am pleased to note that as of 8 May at 12.01, the products that are currently on the market will become unapproved products, that there will be heavy penalties for selling or supplying them, and that it will also become illegal to possess them. That should be an adequate warning to anyone who is considering stockpiling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI say that 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing; 20/20 foresight, however, is a far more rare and unusual thing. It amazes me that the previous speaker from the Labour Party, Clare Curran, could stand up and regale the House with her version of history and her version of what she thinks is the truth when she and her party voted to support this legislation, as did every other member in the House, with the honourable exception of the Hon John Banks, the member for Epsom. When he was speaking earlier on in this debate, he said we collectively got it wrong, and we probably did. We did collectively get it wrong, and the mistake we made was to apply a transition period to these drugs. We thought, as a collective House, that that was the right thing to do. It turns out that it was not. These are complicated issues. They are not just complicated issues for this Parliament, for New Zealand, and for New Zealanders but they are complicated issues for the entire world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EJust a week or two ago in Time magazine I noticed there was a very good and comprehensive article about how the Americans are trying to grapple with this exact same issue. The article said \u201CThe most complicated drug problem in the world right now isn\u2019t meth or cocaine or heroin. It is synthetic drugs,\u201D. I want to make just a single point before sitting down and commending this bill to the House. It has got to do with the Greens\u2019 position on this bill. Many of us put in a lot of time and effort to convince a lot of voters and put forward compelling cases as to why we should come to this Parliament to represent our constituencies and the people who put us in this Parliament. To come to Parliament and then as a caucus make a united decision to abstain on a hard piece of legislation is the ultimate parliamentary cop-out. The Greens to come to this House and sanctimoniously lecture members of the House about their positions on a whole range of issues, yet when they come to a hard decision, simply not to take it and not to make it is, as I say, the absolute, ultimate cop-out. I am sure that Green supporters all around the country are watching that lack of decision on their part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThere is an old proverb that says that when you reach a fork in the road, take it\u2014when you reach a fork in the road, take it. My invitation to the Greens is that they should reconsider their cop-out position and that they should reconsider their decision to abstain from this legislation. They should actually come out, make a decision, and show that maybe one day in the future they could potentially be a fit and able coalition partner for a future Government many, many years away from today. But right now they have shown and proved completely and conclusively that they are not fit to make any kind of hard decision and that they do not do so on the hard issues of the day. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u00222b907417717840558c1f553d4093f7d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b907417717840558c1f553d4093f7d1\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker. Thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to participate in the first reading of the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill. I do so as a member of the Health Committee, which considered the original piece of legislation. I want to acknowledge the 119 of us in this House who voted in support of that legislation. I was one of those people. But I do want to highlight a couple of learning opportunities for us as a Parliament. The first learning opportunity was the manner in which that bill was rushed through the House. The reality is we had a truncated process to meet a deadline that the Government knew about. It forced us as a Parliament to rush through a piece of legislation we are now here having to correct. The reason we are here to correct it is that the people of New Zealand collectively have come out, they have marched, and they have shown that democracy in this country works. I also need to pay tribute to John Campbell and the Campbell Live programme for allowing the content of our community to be seen and for allowing the large number of people in communities around our country who have huge problems with these substances to have the forum, have the platform, to then influence this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EAs a member of the select committee, I thought it was very interesting that the transition provisions\u2014you are right\u2014were put into the original legislation because we did not want blanket prohibition. That was the reality. We recognised that there were products in the country that needed to be regulated. We did not want prohibition, so what we did was say that if the products had been sold within the last 3 months, that was the qualification for them to be sold. But the major flaw in the bill that we as a collective group of parliamentarians enacted on 18 July last year was that we were to develop regulations around the approval process for psychoactive products. What the public of New Zealand needs to know is that the Ministry of Health was empowered with that responsibility. It was the responsibility of the then Associate Minister of Health Todd McClay to implement that piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EWhat I have just found out through one of his own press releases is that on 21 March this year the Ministry of Health concluded its submission process. So, in fact, the Ministry of Health at this point in time has not developed the approval process, which is actually the biggest flaw in the Act that we are now aiming to address. That is absolutely the fault of the Government. The Government is trying to say it is the fault of Parliament. Actually, it is not; it is the fault of the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EWhat I want to do is acknowledge our local councils, because we did empower our local councils to develop local approved products policy. What I know is that in my community of Manurewa, my local board organised a meeting on 14 August last year so that my community could participate in a process to develop our local approved products policy. Local councils like Napier City Council and Hamilton City Council were on to it. Our councils, our elected local board officials, were on to it. This Parliament was not on to it. We are all here tonight rushing this bill through because of the implementation of the primary piece of legislation, which that Government absolutely has to take responsibility for, because unless you have developed a regime\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278d08c20285e44588f818757b3a563f0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. The time has come for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b66c1405e184879b801b460dbcbb638\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL\u003C/span\u003E: I thought it was appropriate after the dinner break to talk about why this Parliament voted for the Psychoactive Substances Act. It became a problem for us as a country because on 1 August 2013 there were temporary class drug notices that were going to expire. That would have enabled 30 substances in 50 products that we had deemed unsafe to go back on to the market. So it was with some urgency that we rushed the legislation through. For those people listening, Associate Minister of Health Dunne introduced the bill on 26 February 2013. The first reading was on 9 April, the second reading was on 27 June, the Committee stage was on 9 July, and we passed the legislation on 17 July. So my primary point before the dinner break was that on 18 July, when the Psychoactive Substances Act became an Act of the New Zealand Parliament, no regulations had been created. The importance of those regulations was, in fact, in the development of a psychoactive products approval process. In fact, one of the reasons we are here today is that the Government to this day has not implemented a regime that would see us engage in a process that could deem products to be safe and fit for human consumption.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EOne of the wins I believe we had on the Health Committee was ensuring that the purpose of the Psychoactive Substances Act\u2014and I am going to read it\u2014was \u201Cto regulate the availability of psychoactive substances in New Zealand to protect the health of, and minimise harm to, individuals who use psychoactive substances.\u201D So as a House, as representatives of communities right across the country, we did recognise that we had to do something. So I want to acknowledge the Ministers who have been involved in this piece of legislation. Initially, it was the Hon Peter Dunne, then it was the Hon Todd McClay, and now we see the Hon Tony Ryall leading the passage of this Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill through the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EBut one of the major issues of contention, I guess, has been around section 66 of the Psychoactive Substances Act. As a member of the select committee, we were really clear that we wanted to empower local communities to develop local approved products policy. What we saw was a very mobilised, energised community and local government sector, which undertook that task earnestly. So we saw Napier City Council come out in early January 2014 with a comprehensive local approved products policy, but the problem that we had was that the regime that should have regulated whether or not products were safe for consumption by New Zealanders was not implemented, and to this day it is not implemented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI do want to highlight, as a member of the select committee, that we were not able to hear submissions about whether or not psychoactive substances should be tested on animals. I would like to acknowledge Mojo Mathers for the leadership that she showed in actually holding her own hearings and getting a lot of New Zealanders to make submissions outside of the select committee process. In fact, my colleague the Hon Trevor Mallard has been engaged in a process just recently that has led to 48,000 New Zealanders being very clear that they do not want to test these products on animals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI just want to clarify for the record the position of the Hon John Banks. On 27 June in the second reading debate on the Psychoactive Substances Bill he said: \u201CIf you cannot prove your [new-found] drug of choice is safe without putting animals in abject misery, you cannot sell the drug.\u201D So the emphasis for the Hon John Banks was, in fact, about protecting animals. I understand that, and I commend him for that position. But when we look at his vote against that bill, it was not because he did not want these products to be sold; he just did not want animals used in the testing regime to determine whether or not those substances were safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI think we were all very clear as a Parliament that prohibition from a central government perspective was not the solution. We unfortunately have been flooded in terms of the market for these products. But what I would like to highlight in my final few minutes are two issues that I think are going to be really important going forward and that the Minister will have to oversee. One is around enforcement of the products. So at 1 minute past midnight on Thursday when this legislation has Royal assent and becomes the law of the country, we have to make sure that police are empowered with the resources to ensure that a black market does not develop. In fact, that was one of the compelling reasons why we as a select committee approved this bill, because we were worried about the products that were in the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe second issue is the health and well-being of addicts. Because these products have been allowed to be sold in our communities, we need to ensure\u2014and Minister, this is, I guess, directly under your responsibility\u2014that people who have addictions, people who have mental health issues, and people who need support, through no fault of their own, can access support, whether it be counselling or other forms of support to help them through this process. Obviously, none of us want people to transition from these drugs to other, illegal drugs. They need support, so that will be one of the critical follow-ups. My colleague Iain Lees-Galloway who holds this shadow portfolio\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002216c505e5d16041fcaa99fd3ec7069cc3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216c505e5d16041fcaa99fd3ec7069cc3\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228fee7c6af60249ad94488fc7ffbbf1cc\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5814b8b5ec8405c819956ff10fcaea9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5814b8b5ec8405c819956ff10fcaea9\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Associate Minister of Health: I move, That the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill be now read a second time. I would like to thank members for their contributions in the first reading debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EI think it would be worth just reminding ourselves of the key provisions of this bill. Interim approvals for products are revoked. There is a recall order for all these products with interim approval. Interim licences to sell psychoactive products by retail or wholesale are revoked. Retailers and wholesalers whose licences have been revoked must comply with the recall order as though their licences were still in effect\u2014this is the issue of the 2 weeks that we were discussing by way of interjection across the House earlier on. Licences for the products are going to be cancelled forthwith. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EAt 12.01 a.m. on Thursday the products are illegal. We are allowing a 2-week period for the seller\u2019s licence to exist because that gives us the ability to have greater enforcement powers during that 2-week period. So we can access the site; we can ask for information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EAnother point is that the Crown has no liability for losses or damages arising from the enactment of the legislation, and, of course, there is to be no animal testing of psychoactive substances. As members know, there is this exception where information from an overseas trial can be used if it will help protect public health. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe impact of the amendments will be that there will be no products permitted to be sold from the legislation\u2019s commencement until regulations are made, which is expected to be within the next few months. New products will have to be developed and trialled and go through the processes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EI would like to thank those members for their contributions, and I commend the further progress of the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022939afc80681a4ae999fbccc1b90b8297\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022939afc80681a4ae999fbccc1b90b8297\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Labour continues to support this legislation, the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill, because it does remove untested drugs from the shelf and it also precludes animal testing from being used to prove that psychoactive substances are either low-risk or no risk. Those are two policies that we wholeheartedly endorse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThere has been a lot of debate this evening about who voted for the original legislation, the Psychoactive Substances Act, and why people voted for it. This bill should not be misinterpreted as overturning the original legislation. This bill amends the original legislation. It takes the transitional provisions out of the Psychoactive Substances Act, and it precludes the use of animal testing, which was already somewhat restricted in the principal Act due to a compromise position that was able to be reached at the Health Committee. This bill should not be interpreted by the public as somehow overturning the overwhelming vote in favour of the original legislation, the Psychoactive Substances Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI just want to respond to John Banks, because he seems quite tickled with himself that he was the one MP who voted against the original legislation. He then went on to say that, somehow or another, voting against the legislation meant that he was saving youngsters from using these drugs, saving them from the perils and dangers of these drugs. Well, let us be really clear here. If Parliament had followed John Banks\u2019 lead on this legislation, all the drugs that were out there before this Act was put in place and all the ones to which temporary ban notices had been applied would still be out there\u2014something between 200 and 300 different products. We had so little idea about what was out there. We do not even know how many drugs were on the market, and we have no idea how many stores they were being sold from. It could have been 3,000 or it could have been 4,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EOn the day that the Act was passed we went down to 47 drugs on the market and we went down to around 160 licensed retailers. That was the impact of that Act. So, imperfect as it was, and as much as we are back here, as we predicted, 12 months after the first reading, trying to fix it up, it was a vast improvement on what we had before. For John Banks to get up and crow about how his vote against the original legislation was somehow protecting the youth of New Zealand I think is bunkum, and it needs to be called for what it is. John Banks seems\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b38e652986f470ead6c61b223d75305\u0022\u003ELouisa Wall\u003C/span\u003E: He loves animals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e11c0ce8a7a94097a4790ed3ac150c66\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Look, John Banks loves animals, and he prioritised the protection of animals over the protection of kids, but, in fact, there was more than one way to deal with this issue. Although National blocked the amendments that would have dealt with animal testing at the time, those of us in the Opposition who actually cared about protecting our youngsters from high-risk drugs said we would pass the legislation regardless and we would find other ways. Trevor Mallard offered a Supplementary Order Paper to the Animal Welfare Amendment Bill, and that is one mechanism by which we have been pursuing this. Today we are finally going to get there, with the mechanism in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe principles behind the Act are still sound. It is just the implementation, in a lot of ways, that has been poor. We have talked about how it has taken a long time to get the regulations in place and, therefore, the untested drugs have stayed on the market for much, much longer than I think Parliament really anticipated. When we passed the Act we were being told by the Government and by the advisers that this was going to take the high-risk drugs off the market. We were told that the transition phase would be short and that it would be dealt with before now, and that\u2014getting the regulations sorted out\u2014has been one of the biggest failures, which, of course, we discovered, in part because of the Prime Minister\u2019s discomfort with animal testing, could have been dealt with if National had voted for Mojo Mathers\u2019 amendment in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe other question that is now in front of us goes to implementation and resourcing as well. We have heard about how there are half a dozen people in the Ministry of Health trying to deal with all the licence applications, trying to deal with writing the regulations, and trying to deal with the complaints about different substances. Half a dozen people simply have not been enough to implement this legislation properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EBut there is the other question: how well-resourced is our addiction treatment sector to deal with the potential for a large number of people coming off these drugs? I am going to be honest. We do not know what the impact is going to be. Some people might be able to come off these drugs and have no need for addiction treatment services. There may be a flood of people accessing addiction treatment services. There is no way the Government is going to be able to step those up to respond to that crisis, because we simply do not have the trained people out there and addiction services do not have the resources, and will not be given the resources, to respond should there be a flood of demand on those services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe other thing that has been missing in all of this is information\u2014information for families, information for users. I was talking to someone in my electorate the other day who works for youth justice, who was telling me that the young people whom she deals with were telling her which products were the bad ones and what the effects of them were. She said: \u201CWe\u2019ve gathered all this information.\u201D I said: \u201CWhat did you do with that information?\u201D, and she said: \u201COh, we didn\u2019t really know what to do with it. We haven\u2019t passed it on to anybody.\u201D She did not know\u2014this is someone working for a Government agency\u2014that what she should be doing is passing that information on to the Psychoactive Substances Regulatory Authority so that it could be making decisions about which products needed to be recalled. That is how poor the information has been from the Government on how to make this Act work properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIt is important, as we go through this next phase, that the Government ensures, through the district health boards, that families have information on how to support people coming off these drugs and how to support people who are addicted to these drugs. That information simply has not been available, and that has been a lot of the cause of the community outrage. People have not known what to do. The Government has not run any programmes. There have been no social marketing programmes to tell people how to report the harmful effects of psychoactive drugs. There has been no programme to teach people what low-risk use of these substances is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIt was not enough to pass the legislation. It had to be implemented properly. Our Ministry of Health had to be resourced properly. Our district health boards had to be resourced properly. Our addiction service treatment centres had to be resourced properly. Our public health services needed to be resourced properly. None of that has happened. That is another reason why this Act has had a really unfortunate start, and that is why we are back here, trying to tidy it up again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWe support the amendments in this bill. We think they will tidy up some aspects of the Act, but the Government needs to do a lot more. It is not just about passing legislation. It is actually at the feet of the Government to make sure the resources are available to make this legislation work properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u00224aa55ca33b02436b8e052976f8dbae4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224aa55ca33b02436b8e052976f8dbae4a\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to take a short call on this second reading of the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill. There has been a fair amount of self-righteousness coming from the Opposition parties as to how they could have easily themselves solved this question. But in actual fact it is a complex situation that this Parliament and successive Parliaments have been trying to grapple with for over 22 years. In fact, the Misuse of Drugs Act, back in 2005, was not successful in addressing the problem. Those were the good old days when benzylpiperazine, which was sheep dip, was cheap and available. It was legal, and people were getting highs from it. But since then these substances have mushroomed substantially throughout New Zealand, so that by 2008 a whole array of them was being manufactured. The manufacturers are indeed individuals who are extremely ruthless and care not one jot for the young people of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EAttempts were made by the Hon Peter Dunne when he issued temporary class notices, and, of course, prior to that there was the Law Commission\u2019s extensive paper, when the genesis of the present bill came into being in 2013. The idea behind it was to minimise risk, to protect the public health, and with the thought that the manufacturers would be required to show minimal risk. As it has turned out, this is not easy. The inventive minds of the manufacturers are there to do everything they can to sabotage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EBut I know that Hunua, the electorate I am very proud to represent, is a classic example of what has happened right around the country. After this Psychoactive Substances Act came in, people were a little confused, even though the substances were less available. I know there were marches in every town and hamlet in my electorate, saying \u201CWe do not want them. They are causing significant problems throughout the country.\u201D, and that is why the Government has, quite rightly, responded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThe enforcement is starting tonight. The police and authority enforcement officers will be visiting retail premises to ensure the affected parties are aware of their obligations. This is happening over the next 48 hours. As the Minister of Health, the Hon Tony Ryall, has pointed out, active enforcement will occur on 8 May. Police and enforcement officers will visit all retailers to ensure that products have been removed from sale and are being removed to the wholesaler. It is clear. It is concise. The message to the public is absolutely clear. I support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb7992647242415e90250f30db9371f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb7992647242415e90250f30db9371f5\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Labour\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E There is no doubt that Parliament wishes to pass the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill as soon as possible, but that does not mean that there are not issues that we ought to raise. I do agree with those who have said that there is no good in going around beating ourselves up on who did what and when. We need to correct the original Psychoactive Substances Act. I think it was a genuine attempt to do something about the issue. We did not get it right and now we are attempting to address it, but there are a couple of issues that I want to raise and hopefully when the Minister of Health is in the chair he will be able to help with some of the answers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI have read carefully the regulatory impact statement from the Ministry of Health. It is dated 2 May. In it, it talks about animal testing and it says that Cabinet agreed in November to test on animals. That was a decision that was made 4 months after the legislation was passed. It says: \u201CIn November, Cabinet agreed that animal testing for psychoactive substances should be limited to rodents\u201D. Unfortunately, Cabinet members were given poor advice at the time in that they were told that rabbits were rodents as well. In fact, rabbits are not rodents. What is interesting though is that, when you go on to read this part of the regulatory impact statement, it says this: \u201CThe Psychoactive Substances Expert Advisory Committee has considered this issue and advises that animal testing using rodents and lagomorphs,\u201D\u2014which are rabbits\u2014\u201Cwould allow the Act to function largely as intended. While it would mean that some products could not be assessed, due to the application using data from non-permitted animal species potentially ruling out some low-risk products, it would allow robust assessment of the risk of at least some products.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe word in here is \u201Cadvises\u201D. The ministry was advising Cabinet as recently as 2 May to continue to test on animals, including rabbits. The Prime Minister announces on 5 May that the Government no longer will test on any animal. I would like to know what changed the Government\u2019s mind between 2 May and 5 May. Why was it going to happen? Why was it agreed by Cabinet and what made it change its mind? We can guess, and I guess there are a number of reasons, including the work of Mojo Mathers, the work of Trevor Mallard, and the 43,000 signatures that have appeared very quickly on a petition. I do not believe that this was a principled decision made by the Government. It was a decision made out of the thought that it would lose votes from animal lovers. I am glad that it has made the decision, but I have to say there is no evidence that this was a principled decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe second issue also comes out of the regulatory impact statement. Nothing has really been made of this at present, but it very much is in the Minister of Health\u2019s area. The regulatory impact statement tells us that it does not have good data on the number of people who use psychoactive products with interim approval. It has gone on to do an assessment of what services would be needed for people who could be addicted, and it has done it by extrapolating from an area that is called the largest provider of alcohol and drug addiction treatment services, and that is Waitemat\u0101 District Health Board. It seems to me that that is a pretty rough way of guessing, because it might be the largest provider\u2014and some of that could come from very good work by the district health board\u2014but does it mean it has the most addicted people? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EMy concern is that it has been estimated that between 150 and 200 people \u201Cmight be sufficiently dependent on these products to require a degree of professional withdrawal management\u201D\u2014and that comes straight out of the regulatory impact statement. My concern is what services will be put in place, because there is no doubt there is going to be the need for services come Thursday when the substances are removed, and people do not have access to them. I am not saying \u201CDon\u2019t do it.\u201D I am saying you have to look at the consequences, the ongoing consequences, and what is in place to ensure that we give the best possible to people who are addicted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThere is a very good email sent to the Hon Maryan Street from one of her constituents raising this issue. A client of the Pascoe Street alcohol and other drugs clinic is saying there will be a significant increase in clients presenting with withdrawal issues and related difficulties. It asks what provision the Government intends to make in order to address the likely increase in demand for addiction services while maintaining\u2014and here is an important point\u2014the present level of services to existing clients. Although there will be a need for these people to have services once we withdraw these illegal highs from the market, you cannot do it at the expense of existing clients. They need to have their ongoing support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThere have been many reports, including out of the Auckland City Mission, that say\u2014and I am sure Mr Sabin will be interested in this\u2014that this could be a bigger problem than methamphetamine. The big worry is that at this point\u2014and this was late in April\u2014\u201CAt least 90 percent of clients coming through detox have used synthetic cannabis.\u201D So even then, those who were wanting and needing detox had been those using synthetic cannabis. The person who is quoted in this story is saying it is the hardest thing they have ever come off. So I do think it would be useful for the House if the Minister was able to tell us what services will be available for these people come Thursday. Will we have enough staff, do we need additional resources, and will additional resources be made available to assist people coming off these highly addictive and soon-to-be illegal highs? I would feel some comfort if they were able to be answered, because there is no doubt that for members of the House it will turn from our banning them to what services are available and the stories of people not getting the services they need in different parts of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ESo it is going to need to be very carefully managed. I think the Minister ought to ask every district health board to provide, as soon as possible, information about what capacity and facilities they will have to be able to provide services to those who are highly addicted and are going to need to be detoxed off these illegal highs. Hopefully the Minister will be able to answer those in the Committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0d0acbfc8fb42b39b5fe4aa7b95b777\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0d0acbfc8fb42b39b5fe4aa7b95b777\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I want to start by picking up on a comment from Dr Paul Hutchison about the actions that police are apparently taking tonight, going around to stores and advising them what the outcome of this debate will be. I have to say that I am slightly offended by the assumption about my rhetoric in advocating against the interim prohibition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI sat on the Health Committee that considered the psychoactive substances legislation and was very pleased with the outcome from the select committee process. I have to say that this bill we are considering tonight, the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill, leaves me with very mixed feelings. On the one hand, one of the issues that was raised in the select committee was the matter of animal testing, and members will be very familiar with the Green Party minority view in the select committee report, which sets out the arguments against using evidence from animal testing. It sets out what the alternatives to that are. We went on, in the Committee stage, to advance a Supplementary Order Paper in Mojo Mathers\u2019 name. Unfortunately, it did not gather the necessary majority support at that time. I am very pleased that apparently, I think, all members of the House are now convinced by the arguments for the change that Mojo Mathers proposed at that time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EOn the other aspect of the bill, however, I am sure that all members of this House are aware that we oppose, in fact, the effective repeal of the interim regime and replacement of that interim regime with a prohibition regime until the Act takes full effect. So our party probably disagrees, I think, with all other members in the House on this point. I just want to take this opportunity in the second and third readings in this debate to advance our reasons for that and to respectfully disagree with other members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EWe believed that that interim regime established by the Act, although very far from perfect, was the best way of approaching the period between the completely unregulated regime that had previously applied and the Act taking full effect. We thought it was the best way to go about that. We think that the prohibition regime that is being substituted for that regime now is the wrong approach and is being taken for the wrong reasons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EPaul Hutchison also spoke about some of the opposition to the Act, in his electorate, being based on wrong information or misleading information. I think that is a bit of a common theme. I have been travelling around the country quite a lot, and people have been saying things to me like \u201CWe don\u2019t understand why Parliament chose to legalise synthetic cannabis.\u201D Well, OK. There are two problems with that idea. The first is that these substances were many. They were not a single substance, and the substances that are still legally on the shelf tonight are, in fact, still many. They are different products. They are made up from different compounds. They have different effects. Some of them are very low risk. Some of them may be higher risk. It is a mistake to assume that they are all the same thing or that they all pose the same level of risk. Yet that is the assumption that members of the public have been led to believe in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe second point, of course, is that Parliament did not legalise the availability of these substances. They were legally available. In fact, Parliament chose to impose a very substantial regulatory regime on the interim regime, and an even more substantial regulatory regime would take effect when the Act comes to be in place completely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe third thing that I have heard from members of the public who are justifiably concerned about what is occurring out there in the community is the assumption that the harm caused prior to the Act is still being caused. So, for example, there was a national day of action that community organisations held some little while ago. The Television New Zealand piece that preceded it was largely comprised of an interview with someone whose son, tragically, had suffered some very major psychological effects of consuming a psychoactive substance. That consumption had occurred some 3 years prior, and that substance had not been on the shelves for some considerable period. In all of the debate that I have seen about substantial harm still being caused, actually, the debate has related to substances that are no longer available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EFourthly, there is, I think, a widespread belief that problems have got worse. In fact, I think, as some speakers in the debates on this bill so far have probably alluded to, that is not the case. The number of outlets has drastically reduced. The number of products on the shelves has substantially reduced. Sales have reduced and harm has reduced. I want to quote from the Ministry of Health. Nicola Kean, who is a producer for The Nation programme asked the Ministry of Health, I guess, 2 weeks ago now\u2014so just prior to the announcement of this approach\u2014what the trend is, if any, for people presenting at accident and emergency for problems with psychoactive substances since the law was introduced. The ministry\u2019s answer was: \u201CWhile it is early days the Authority has received anecdotal reports demonstrating the number of severe presentations to emergency departments has reduced since the Act came in. The Authority monitors approved products received from the Centre for Adverse Reactions Monitoring (CARM), and calls from the public to the National Poisons Centre on a regular basis. These reports also show a reduction in the number of severe issues being reported. Where severe adverse reactions are reported the Authority has the power to act and has already removed products from the market where reports to CARM identified they posed more than a low risk of harm.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThere you are. The Act, as we passed it, was working. The interim regime was reducing harm, and the power existed for any products that were identified as causing harm to be removed from the shelves. And the ministry, the authority, was taking that step. Therefore, it was a bit of a puzzle when I heard Mr Dunne on the television saying that this new regime, an interim prohibition on all of these substances, was being introduced but it was not possible to identify any particular substance associated with reports of adverse reactions. That is unbelievable nonsense. The regime absolutely existed to be able to identify reports of harm with a particular substance. The ministry, the authority, had already been using that fact to suspend products, to take them off the shelves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe fact is that the community concerns were being driven by increased visibility. That is precisely what we wanted to happen. For every shop still selling these products, at least 20 had been closed down. So although usage had been reduced, it was being concentrated and being made more visible around the surviving outlets. Visibility, access to treatment, is precisely what we want. I absolutely understand those community concerns, but the way that the Government should have responded to those concerns was with better quality information for communities, better quality information for local bodies, better access to information about treatment, and better resourcing for treatment services. Communities deserved leadership, and, instead, what we have is a knee-jerk response that, although popular, is based not on fact but on populism. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u00228b5cc20181524289926868f20930de31\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b5cc20181524289926868f20930de31\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E It is no surprise that the Green Party is not actually voting against the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill; they are abstaining. I actually think that the New Zealand public deserves better than that. The Greens are either for it or against it. To sit somewhere in the middle on an issue that has concerned and affected so many people in this country\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a247957885ed4e56b66c6a227fd33eb1\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s been on both sides of the issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fd1a838b791475e9405923a0b0e3372\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, OK, let me pick that up, Mr Mallard. I actually think that the starting point for this legislation is that no drug use is the safest drug use. No one forces people out there to take mind-altering substances of any sort, all right? People should all be grown up enough to know that when we take a mind-altering substance\u2014surprise, surprise\u2014it will alter our mind. For some people that will be substantial, and for some people that will lead to addiction. The legality of a substance will never alter the chemical nature of a substance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003ESo I think the starting point is that not only in this House should we acknowledge and accept the issues around drugs but also the populace of New Zealand and those who choose to ingest those drugs should do that too. One could argue that once people are addicted then possibly there is an excuse. They take because they cannot not take, but the reality is that they have made a conscious choice to take them in the first place. So there is actually a responsibility in this that should be shared by all of us, not just parliamentarians. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThe second point I would say is that because of the ability of the drug manufacturers\u2014or those I like to think of as drug peddlers, actually\u2014to beat the legislation through altering chemical compounds, the starting point of this new approach is actually to put the onus on to those people who are manufacturing to show that the drugs are low risk. And what does low risk actually mean? Actually, low risk will mean that it is something that is not capable of causing addiction, because we know that addiction is harmful. Therefore, it must be something that is not capable of stimulating sufficient dopamine, or neurotransmitters of that nature, for people to get withdrawal symptoms when they stop using them. So, therefore, by definition it should be something that is not capable of giving a high and, therefore, not capable of creating an addiction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003ESo what we should end up with here is drug peddlers who spend countless millions of dollars and a long period of time to end up with a product that will not make people high and, therefore, will be low risk. So I actually think that this legislation has merit. It is a legitimate track to take. I just want to remind us all that the difficulties that this legislation and that New Zealand has been traversing is pioneering sort of stuff. There is no one way to reach the promised land, I guess, of eliminating the harm that drugs cause, but we all have a responsibility in this, and this Government is taking its responsibility seriously and is doing something about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u00221bd7c6738ed544cfb08b73b79680b5a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bd7c6738ed544cfb08b73b79680b5a2\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise again on behalf of New Zealand First to support the passing of the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill, which will see synthetic cannabis and other untested substances removed from sale in our country. We are absolutely delighted to hear that the police and the enforcement officers are out visiting shops at this point in time and ensuring that vendors are aware of changes as a result of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First hopes that the call for specialised support for families and for those addicted to these substances will be listened to. The current mental health and addiction counselling services are not set up to deal with the huge problems that we anticipate will be out there. Support has to be provided for those who are caught up in this synthetic drugs crisis. Resources must be made available for young people and their parents. We know that these chemical substances are very difficult to get off. They are highly addictive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIt is very important to ensure that drugs are subject to lengthy testing. We do not want to see any come back on to the market that have not gone through the whole rigorous testing regime. On Campbell Live tonight it was interesting to hear a scientist who helped develop synthetic cannabis say that it was never meant to be consumed by humans\u2014very interesting, I thought, because, really, who else was going to consume it? So it was interesting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe need to ensure that any changes to these products incur huge financial disincentives for the manufacturers. At the moment, they are making millions while they are putting New Zealanders at risk. In New Zealand First we stand by our original position, which is that these products really need to be banned, and this legislation effectively does that. So we are very pleased to be supporting this bill tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u00221d56db0919754b67b6a1f40153550fa8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d56db0919754b67b6a1f40153550fa8\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill. The reason is very simple. This is a very short call but I will say a few words. As an immigrant from China, I was not familiar with legal highs simply because legal highs are illegal in China. We have now heard about all sorts of problems relating to legal highs. When we came to New Zealand, one key reason was to live in a good, safer environment\u2014particularly safer communities. So this amendment bill will provide a better and safer community for our young people. That is why we will support the bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022e08ac56a57274b1897430952206f0161\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e08ac56a57274b1897430952206f0161\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I want to start by doing something sort of slightly unusual, and that is to compliment the Minister of Health. It is not something I have done that often, but I think it is important to say that the world has improved a lot since Associate Minister of Health Peter Dunne was packed off to Bali and this Minister took charge of this particular policy area. A degree of rationality has come into the debate. We have stopped having the embarrassing appearances on Campbell Live when the Associate Minister goes to places where legal highs are sold but he has no understanding of the communities that are involved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI also want to compliment the Minister of Health on the consultation on this legislation, the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill, and the fact that he worked hard to get it to go back and forth to the point where an overwhelming majority in Parliament are prepared to vote for it and no one is prepared to vote against it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe other person whom I would like to thank for his work in this area is David Farrar, because what has become absolutely clear to us over the last couple of weeks is that there has been a massive change of view following the questions that have been asked in Mr Farrar\u2019s polling of people around New Zealand as to their attitudes to these legal highs and also to the testing of them on animals, which are being asked, I understand, both in the quantitative research and also in the focus groups that the National Party is running, I think, four times a week. You know, I want to say that it is good in this particular case, and, in fact, generally, that the National Party is working hard to understand the limits of the tolerance of New Zealanders and to accept\u2014and I accept, and I accept with regret\u2014the fact that as a Parliament we got the original legislation wrong. We got it a bit wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EIf Tony Ryall had been in charge of the regulatory system that went with the original legislation, then the legal highs that are being sold today and will not be sold on Thursday would have been not gone by lunchtime but certainly gone by Christmas. Any competent Minister would have set up the regulatory regime. Peter Dunne worked on this legislation for years. He worked on it. He had his little moment\u2014not moment; he had his year\u2014of problems, and he had the leaking of the report. He had a bit of time off, but he came back and he had responsibility for the regulation in this area. And did he do his work? He did not. As recently as 15 April\u201415 April\u2014he wrote a letter to me. He probably wrote one to everyone else as well, because we do not have a special or close relationship, Mr Dunne and I. He was saying what good legislation it was and to give it a chance. Well, how wrong he was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EAgain, I want to congratulate David Farrar and his prot\u00E9g\u00E9, the Prime Minister, on getting to the point of understanding what Kiwis think. What having this legislation did was allow us to focus on the people who were using these products. They were widely and generally available, but, in my particular case, it was only when there was a store 30 metres from my electorate office and I saw the queues there before school, waiting for the shop to open, that I really understood the addictive nature of this stuff. That is how I got to understand the fact that in Naenae so many people\u2014mainly, but not only, young; I have seen mainly, but not only, young\u2014were being affected by it. Seeing the kids in the pushchairs being pushed in and out of these places by their parents, and seeing the transactions that were occurring within metres of the shop between people who had an ID that said they were 18\u2014although I must say that some of them did not look like it to me\u2014and people who were clearly much younger than that age, and the exchanges, the drug deals, that were going on there, was shocking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI am not absolutely aware of the sort of kawa or the protocols, and I do not want to breach anything that is confidential from a select committee that you, Mr Assistant Speaker Tisch, and I sit on, but I might say, without referring to that, that generally we got to the point in the discussions on this where I think we got a better understanding of the dangers of it. We got from the officials a defence of the testing regime but a defence that was not convincing\u2014a defence that promoted the position of Mr Dunne but was not convincing, I think, to parliamentarians. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI came to this debate not as an expert in the drug regulation area and not as someone who has had any experience in the health policy area\u2014I think the only experience I have had in that was discussion with Heather Simpson when I declined to be the Minister of Health in 2005\u2014so I respect the knowledge of a number of colleagues who know much more about this. But what I have been for many years is an owner of pets and, in particular, an owner of dogs. I came to this issue as a result of the representations that were made to me by my constituents and other people from around Wellington who pointed out what could happen under this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EWithout going into any detailed family matters, I have a close relative who is actively involved in medical research, and that involves, on occasions, animals. I do not think it is wrong. I think there are occasions when it is necessary, and where people are working in research with therapeutic outcomes, I think that that can, in fact, be vital. I hope that in the future, as computer modelling moves on, animal testing will not be necessary. I know that it is substantially reduced, but if it is for a good purpose, then I think that it is important that it occurs for now. But there can be no excuse for killing animals for the purpose of boosting the profits of dealers in recreational drugs. There is no moral argument for that. To say that it is OK for rats and not for rabbits, as the Prime Minister tried to do for a week or so\u2014now we understand that Cabinet took that decision and then reversed it\u2014is wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EWe have come, I think, to a good position on this. I regret my vote for the original legislation and that I did not understand the legislation and I did not understand the requirement to have a competent Minister administering it when I voted for it, but we have got to the point now where we have made some progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225282587eee14489896def5db399b07bf\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00221d77a131c8d645208a404ecf26356066\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d77a131c8d645208a404ecf26356066\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the Committee to consider all parts of the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill as one debate with the questions to be taken separately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb3bb42c0f2c40d59342a3bafed16ccb\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I think the whip meant to say \u201Call clauses\u201D not \u201Call parts\u201D\u2014all clauses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae638b79ebee4e7ba2adf7519f6dae8b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we do not have parts, only clauses. Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f7ddf15fe50a46e1be05c290524febd9\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 8 and schedule\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4ebef895c8e45b290eae6025469df75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4ebef895c8e45b290eae6025469df75\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much for letting me have a call on this Committee stage of the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill. Clause 7 is the one that I think most people will be focusing on in this debate. There have been a few political volleys fired from both sides of the Chamber tonight, but, in terms of my constituents, they do not care. They just want to make sure that what is being done here tonight is enacted as fast as it can be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI do want to take this opportunity to thank a number of people who certainly\u2014like in Trevor Mallard\u2019s electorate, in my electorate in Mana, and particularly in Porirua\u2014brought this issue to my attention. Particular thoughts go out to a couple of mothers whose sons were particularly affected, and they shall remain nameless, but the effect that synthetic cannabis has had on their sons has been immense. Again, I will not mention names, but one who approached me was very, very concerned about her son\u2019s use of the product, and then her son went on to assault the shopkeeper of the store that was predominantly selling this stuff in the electorate. So for those people out there who\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7d2da4fd36a429ca9b1e74174605487\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: After she talked to you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ca3932198074b5788fc831e5a2a42f0\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: After she talked to me. So for those people out there who are, I guess, judging why this has come about, whether or not they think this is vote grabbing or just reacting to media coverage, I can tell them right now that that is definitely not the case. I guess this is a win for those of us who have heard the concerns of communities, who have reflected it to our caucuses\u2014and who cares who came first, because this absolutely needed to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIn particular, I do want to take the opportunity to thank some people locally: the local police force that brought their concerns to me; the local city council, which was not too happy that this House, I guess it thought, lumbered the responsibility\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226872dc40b55c4325987fc9ad427e3ef1\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Peter Dunne asked for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bea419eb4464b23a7f117d1f0f6656d\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yes\u2014of a local approved products policy on it. I want to thank some local community workers, and a member of a gang who was also concerned. One morning, in particular, the police let me walk around the canopies in Porirua to see what was going on in the shop and they took me into the shop. Like Trevor Mallard said, there was a very long line in the shop and there was regular patronage. But the thing that got me was some 15-year-olds, who should have been at school but who were not, whom we spoke to. They knew that this product was doing them harm. In fact, I was completely baffled as to why one product that was being sold had on the packet \u201CNot fit for human consumption\u201D. That is just mind-boggling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAs has been said by Trevor Mallard as well, we do regret the fact that some 18 months to 2 years ago the original legislation went through. Although it was a good bill, it did have flaws, and we are here tonight to make sure that we rectify this because the drugs were having an awful effect in communities. To the person who was representing the Star Trust and who was saying that this House is merely reacting to political concern or concern in the media, I say that he is someone who makes money out of other people\u2019s misery, so I am not concerned about what he thinks about what this House is doing, when something had to be done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAlso there are some other people I thank: Jenny Lester from the Porirua Healthy Safer City Trust is someone who brought this to my attention, and the Porirua City Council, which was making positive steps to bring in a local approved products policy anyway. I guess, again it was not overly happy that that responsibility was given to it, but it was taking proactive steps towards that. In a submission that I made to that council, the council asked why this stuff was not banned altogether, and I\u2014as did other members of the Labour caucus\u2014fed all of this feedback into the policy position that we came to a week or so ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo this bill is a good thing. It is regretful that we have to come here and make good what we thought 18 months ago was going to be a good move. But, in the end, this stuff is bad news and it should not be sold freely into our communities, and 15-year-olds certainly should not be smoking stuff that says \u201CNot fit for human consumption\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u0022afac20e058d04161bc3662a0a9721a59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afac20e058d04161bc3662a0a9721a59\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to take a short call in the Committee stage of the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill. There is no doubt about the specific objectives of the bill, which are to revoke all interim product approvals, to revoke all interim retail and wholesale licences, to require the recall and disposal of all products for which interim product approval has been revoked, and to provide that the results of trials that involve the use of animals cannot be used in the assessment of a psychoactive product. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EAs I said earlier on, in the electorate that I represent, Hunua, there has been huge concern about how these psychoactive drugs affect families, affect individuals, and devastate the lives of those who are affected. But the point that I really would like to make is that there has been a fair amount of self-righteousness about this bill and how easy these issues are to solve. They are not easy to solve. They are highly complex. For anyone to think that there is a simple solution, they have just got their head in the sand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI must reflect on the day of revelation\u2014yesterday, 5 May\u2014when Trevor Mallard and John Banks said what a great day it was for the rats, the mice, the beagles, and the rabbits of New Zealand. It was almost as though they had taken on the persona of St Francis of Assisi, but again\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286feac8824a9431c81134c8d029b5841\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: More the Pied Piper, in my case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9cd32408f684fcd9d28c08fb78026b6\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014indeed\u2014there is complexity here because, on the other hand, we have big issues in New Zealand. We are pouring out 1080, knocking off rats and mice and goodness knows whats in our forests because they get our birds. We have got the duck-shooting season going on right now. We have huge rabbit infestations right throughout the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThese issues are not simple. However, the Government has responded with clear and concise action. It is reassuring that today enforcement notifications have been made clear throughout the country, and, indeed, on 8 May, no more psychoactive substances will be legal in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00225b20effb06414705884874d0f4447b30\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b20effb06414705884874d0f4447b30\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Sometimes this House has to do very important, but very complicated and very difficult, things. Tonight is one of those occasions. I join many of my colleagues who come with no joy to find that we are here rectifying something that we got wrong 18 months to 2 years ago when we last debated this issue of psychoactive substances. We debated and we put in place a regime that was the first in the world that was going to allow these drugs on to our market, a regime that was all around the fact that they were tested and shown to be safe. As many speakers have alluded to in the speeches this afternoon and tonight, this was all predicated on there being a regime for testing in place. It is with no pleasure that I say that we cautioned at the time that we were rushing the Psychoactive Substances Bill, for an incredibly complicated piece of legislation. The devil was in the detail, and how it was that we were going to show the safety of these drugs was always going to be an incredibly complicated and difficult path for us to traverse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIt is not just a matter of walking into a laboratory, throwing some substances under a laser light, and saying that this is not safe, or that that is not safe. The way in which we prove the safety or otherwise of many substances and compounds that we consume either as food or as medicines, or, in this case, that were going to be consumed as recreational drugs, is no small or easy path. It takes many years. It starts with people doing things in a laboratory. The traditional path is that it then moves on to animal models and then it moves on to human clinical models. Whether this is something that we are willing to permit for the use of recreational drugs is an important issue for this House to answer. I am very pleased that we are standing here tonight and are going to say no\u2014we are not going to allow the testing of recreational drugs on animals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EFor me personally, as a constituency MP, this issue cuts to the heart of why it was that I was elected to represent my electorate of Wigram. I voted with my party, as many members of this House did. In fact, most members of this House voted for a piece of legislation that we thought we were doing the right thing with. We thought we were putting in place a piece of legislation that would actually reduce the harm in our communities around the use of psychoactive chemicals and drugs, but this has not been the case. Like many of my colleagues, I have spent too many hours listening to constituents telling me their stories about what these substances have done to their families. I recall one mother coming in and being absolutely distraught, and I can understand why. Not only was her 14-year-old son no longer going to school; he was stealing from her and neighbours in order to finance his habit, and she had had to call the police the night before because he had physically assaulted both her and the other children in the family. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThis is not something that you can stand idly by, as a constituent MP, and say it is OK. The regime we put in place was not working. It was not stopping the harm in our communities. I could not stand by and say to the people of Wigram: \u201CJust taiho, everything\u2019s going to be OK.\u201D, because it was not. We also have some responsibility now, and that is that we as parliamentarians have to ensure that the support is there for the people who are going to be having the addiction issues as these drugs are no longer available. We have to ensure, as my colleague Annette King has suggested in earlier contributions, that we have adequate funding for people to access addiction services and that district health boards are properly resourced to grapple with these issues and to be able to make sure that New Zealanders are getting the best service that they can as they come off these drugs. The regulatory impact statement for this piece of legislation makes it really clear that a lot of the people who are using these drugs are not going to be able to afford the trip to the general practitioner to get the referral to the addiction service. We have to make sure that that support is in place. We are here tonight to fix something that we got wrong 2 years ago, and we need to make sure that we are putting it right and putting the best interests of our community at its heart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022 data-id=\u00220528170220d84ed2a2d0b4b70ba4ca44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220528170220d84ed2a2d0b4b70ba4ca44\u0022\u003EMOJO MATHERS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I spoke earlier at the first reading of this bill, the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill, of my belief that the U-turn that has been taken by the Government on prohibiting the use of information from animal testing to approve applications for the use of psychoactive substances is in essence the same as the amendment that I put forward on the Psychoactive Substances Bill a year ago. I would like to take the opportunity to just thank all the parties that voted in support of that amendment, which included the Labour Party\u2014in particular, Trevor Mallard\u2019s hard work on that\u2014John Banks, Mana, and the M\u0101ori Party. I also spoke about the shocking process that the bill went through, whereby all the voices of the animal welfare organisations and people speaking out against the use of animal testing to approve these drugs were rejected by the chair of the Health Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EWhat I would like to do is to actually go through the report that we produced as a result of the hearings that we held. We held our own alternative hearings to hear these submitters who were excluded from having the right to their democratic say. There were a number of major organisations that spoke and presented their submissions. These included Save Animals from Exploitation, the SPCA, Helping You Help Animals, the New Zealand Anti-Vivisection Society, as well as a number of individuals. The first thing that most of the submitters actually said was to acknowledge the need for strong regulation of psychoactive substances. They accepted that the situation that existed at that time was not working and they were welcoming the intent of the bill. Some of them even talked about their private lives and people whom they knew who had been turned upside down by some of these drugs. A lot of them talked about their utter dismay that democratic process had not been followed, that they had made their submissions and done their research in good faith that their concerns around animal testing would be heard by the Health Committee, and they had done so under the recommendation of the Minister at the time and the health officials. To then be rejected was, for them, a deep betrayal of democratic process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EWhat there was also was a fairly detailed submission from the Anti-Vivisection Society. You see, what had happened was that right back 6 months previously it had, under the Official Information Act, got hold of a report that had been produced by the Ministry of Health that outlined a proposed testing regime for these drugs. At that point in time, the testing regime was to involve a number of stages. There were the preclinical toxicological trials and then the human clinical trials, as well as the post-registration surveillance. It is quite important to understand that a testing regime is composed of all these three elements. It was never proposed that a clinical trial would be able to prove safety to the point that the substance goes straight to being used by the general population. There were always going to be human clinical trials involved. This is something that the public often do not realise when they say that they do not want animal testing, so let us go straight to testing them on drug addicts and so on. Actually, we need controlled studies, and they were always going to be part of the process with human volunteers. They start with micro-dosing and monitoring very carefully for the clinical signs of reactions and so on. So whatever tests they use for the preclinical trials are designed to weed out the most toxic substances, the most likely to have extreme dangerous reactions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EThe original Ministry of Health standard for safety\u2014actually, \u201Csafety\u201D is not the right word to talk about the whole testing regime. It is about low risk because, actually, we cannot prove that any recreational drug is safe. Alcohol is not safe and tobacco is not safe, and yet we use them and we accept the risks that come with their use. So it is always going to be about trying to screen out the most damaging of these drugs and then focusing on the low-risk drugs and educating the public about their use. The reality is that the Ministry of Health\u2019s initial proposed testing regime included four types of testing\u2014for acute toxicity, for repeated-dose toxicity, for toxicokinetic investigation, and for genotoxicity. For all four of these there are validated alternatives to animal testing\u2014not just one or two, but three or four or more\u2014and all of them have been validated. That means that they have been demonstrated to give as good, if not better, results than those of the equivalent animal trials. So I utterly reject the claim by Paul Hutchison that we are being somehow kind of unscientific or airy-fairy, or what have you. That is not the case. There are established international studies on these areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EThe reality is that report was commissioned by the Anti-Vivisection Society using an overseas expert because we do not have the expertise in New Zealand. That is the problem. New Zealand is small. It is a country of only a few million people. We are not experts in alternatives to animal testing. The experts are overseas. We have to rely on overseas input in this area to achieve the goal of having low-risk products that have been tested using non-animal tests. We can do it, but we must look overseas for the expertise and the tests involved. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4db62cf5546498bbe6ef3ba468c442c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4db62cf5546498bbe6ef3ba468c442c\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First as we welcome this bill, the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill, to, essentially, ban legal highs and because we think that it is absolutely disgraceful that families and communities had to suffer for such a long time before we as parliamentarians thought it was necessary to correct the mistakes that were made in the original legislation. Indeed, it was an embarrassing, shameful, and humiliating situation where 41 legal high products remained on the shelves. Those 41 products were actually sold in bulk through the Papatoetoe Heaven and Dreams shop. I think clause 7 in this new amendment bill will address most of the issues that have been raised by some of our local residents. I am sure that Pat Taylor and a few residents of Papatoetoe will now be very happy to know that the Government is actually doing something about this. Mr Paul Hutchison was saying that these situations are not easy to solve. I have a very strong message for you at this stage. It can be solved. The only reason it cannot be solved is that we are incapable of making it easy to be solved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EOn the Campbell Live show we could all see that Mr Dunne was completely out of touch. A situation that was also hurting a lot of families is that there was no clear acceptance from Mr Dunne at the time to understand the issues that have been raised as a result of legal highs. It is a national issue, and it is one that is, tragically, affecting regional towns and low socio-economic areas the most. That is why we should have been more proactive earlier, and that is the reason why instead of waiting for local councils, this amendment bill should have been introduced a lot sooner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EThe side effects of legal highs include agitation, confusion, paranoia, seizures, violent behaviour, haemoptysis, and psychosis. I am sure that everyone is now an expert on the side effects of these particular drugs. I have seen frightening evidence of the major health problems they cause and their direct influence on domestic and family violence, and that is the sad part about it. It is that there have had to be deaths and there have had to be suicides before we could even respond. It is becoming the norm for New Zealand parliamentarians that we have to wait for a major incident to happen before we can actually fix the problem. Hundreds of people are reported to have experienced harm in one form or another from legal highs, but this is only the tip of the iceberg. Beyond the hundreds of sad cases involving injury and death, there has been a failure to eliminate a threat posed by legal highs, and it has boosted an unhealthy culture of drug taking in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EWe now have an image as a country that is receptive to taking drugs. Mr Dunne sat on his hands while a culture of synthetic drugs was taking place. I even spoke to Mr Todd McClay quite a number of times. I told him that something needed to be done. His response was that the bill that was passed last year was the best option that this country could take. The reality is that 147 legal high shops remained, with 50 of them in the Auckland area. Although the number of legal high outlets is lower, you can still be sure that the number of people taking drugs did not come down. That is the reason why there were long queues in places like Tauranga and Te Awamutu and some of the outlets throughout the country. You can find the majority of these outlets in places like Dargaville, Karikari, and Edgecombe. About 82 are specialist drug shops, judging by their names, such as Heaven and Dreams and Cosmic Corner, and they are sold in tobacconists, video stores, sex shops, tattooists, and body piercers. With fewer outlets, as proudly announced by Mr Dunne, it definitely does not mean that there are fewer people taking drugs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EA new generation of young people are getting the wrong message. They are getting the wrong message about synthetic drugs, and it is not the message that we should be portraying or putting in place for the future generations of this country. This drug-taking culture is affecting everyone in New Zealand. During the Polyfest festival, secondary school students were actually waiting outside the Heaven and Dreams drug store because they wanted to pick up some of their drugs before going to the festival. The actual owner was giving it to them from the side door of his shop. These are some of the things that we ought to be looking at and we are supposed to be protecting our young generations from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EMany of these legal high shops are willing to sell to anyone. They will not be willing to admit that they are selling to the wrong age. Legal highs are an unnecessary temptation for teenagers and there was not enough accountability for these retailers. The number of people using legal highs is now vast, and families, communities, police, and hospitals must now deal with a new stream of addicted users. The serious threat to the health of New Zealand families and communities was palpable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003ESince the initial Psychoactive Substances Act was passed, New Zealand First has been advocating on behalf of concerned local residents to do something or to reverse the position we had. Tonight I am actually very happy that we are looking at a complete ban on these items. We became aware that the decision to support the Psychoactive Substances Act was a mistake, but it was based on the information that was made available to us at the time. The call for action on legal highs was nationwide. Over 30,000 people have actually joined a Facebook group, and those who took to the streets for a march against legal highs ought to be taken notice of and ought to be considered seriously. New Zealand First was there. It was a country-wide protest, including over 20 towns from Whangarei to Invercargill. These were people who had experienced firsthand the damage legal highs were capable of inflicting on individuals and society. What I saw was a community standing up for itself because the Government was not standing up for the community. It was a mistake in the first place, and communities and families were made to suffer before the Government could actually respond. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EThis new legislation proposes to ban all synthetic drugs until they are proven. We would prefer an outright ban because that is what much of the community has asked for. We have seen living proof that the notion of reducing harm\u2014and I think there has been talk about low risk. The right translation or interpretation of \u201Clow risk\u201D is that there is some risk. When there is some risk, whether it is low risk or high risk, that means there is still risk. Those are the things that we need to pay attention to. Attitudes like those held by those who said that there is low risk must also be eliminated. Those are the attitudes that should not be welcome in the debate on legal highs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EIf appropriate measures were taken and proper regulations put in place when the initial Psychoactive Substances Act was passed, we would not have seen some of the attempted suicides in Manurewa, we would not have seen some of the domestic violence that we have actually witnessed in \u014Ctara, and the people in Papatoetoe would have been able to go to bed at night without the fear of some badly behaved local residents who were actually desperate for their synthetic drugs. Many other countries have applied a law that invokes a straight ban by using broad terms to encompass all types of synthetic cannabis. New Zealand is the only country in the world to adopt a free-market, clinical-trial regime for recreational drugs. The Government is now taking the right action, and the term \u201Clow risk\u201D should be eliminated from the debate altogether. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EWe should not be able to look for approval of any low-risk products in the future. We should be looking for products that are completely safe and have no risk at all. Two clear requirements must be present in the law on recreational synthetic drugs: first, to prove the product is safe before it can be sold, and, second, to notify authorities if there are changes to its composition. That should be part of the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill. That should be what we are supporting, and that is what we should be focusing on in order for the people of New Zealand to be satisfied with what we have actually introduced here tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003EIt is important to specify that safety measures have been put in place and that everyone is in support of those safety measures. That is what New Zealand First would like to see happen, and we are pleased to know that this week we will be able to turn round and tell those legal high shops that they can no longer operate in the way that they have been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd4db68abe9b4779b9455d1e72e55015\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd4db68abe9b4779b9455d1e72e55015\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to do something unusual here tonight, and that is to actually thank John Banks for his contribution to this debate on the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill\u2014not only tonight. Actually, I have to admit that I was wrong in criticising him when he spoke against the original legislation in August last year and for the reasons he spoke against it. I would also like to acknowledge Mojo Mathers for her passionate, consistent defence of the no animal testing regime, and also Trevor Mallard for the work he has done on this. I have to say that this unlikely trio has probably sparked something new in 2014. I sense that we are actually opening up a new debate on animal testing in this country and the reasons for it. I think that is an important thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI also, unusually, want to thank the Minister in the chair tonight for being here as the Minister of Health and, by his presence, signalling that this is a significant and important issue. I am going to ask the Minister respectfully whether he can answer a couple of questions tonight, if not in the chair then in the third reading, because I think that the people listening to this debate tonight throughout New Zealand have got a couple of questions still in their minds that do need answers from the Government around the implementation of this bill and around the resourcing of the care of people who are badly affected by these terrible drugs. And they are not just drugs; they are actually poisons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI also, unfortunately, would like to take issue with what one of the Green members, Kevin Hague, said tonight about the impact of the Psychoactive Substances Act since it has been enacted. I suppose I cannot blame him, because he relied on the regulatory impact statement, which I know was prepared in some haste and actually does not reflect the full facts. I do want to put on the record again that there has been a recorded increase in the number of contacts with the National Poisons Centre. This is not just because there is an 0800 number on the drugs as they are being sold; this is because there are stronger adverse effects. Although the number of drugs that are actually for sale has lessened in the actual physical number, moving down from 300-odd to 40-something, some of them are extremely toxic. There are more and more toxic adverse reactions presenting at emergency departments and being reported through the National Poisons Centre. Again\u2014and I am going to table this at the end of my speech tonight\u2014this here is the latest report, the April report, from the National Poisons Centre, which I do hope the Minister has had access to. I know that it was sent to the Associate Minister of Health Peter Dunne. The graph shows in red the line where those numbers of calls about adverse reactions have gone up, and they are going up every month. This is a significant issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI also want to draw attention to a couple of other things, and I know that the Hon Annette King also drew attention to these, and they are the estimation that has been made of the number of people being badly affected who have developed dependency, and the inadequacy of the research and work that is being done within the Ministry of Health. This is not to criticise individual people; this is basically to say that the resources are not in place to do this work. Estimating that 100 to 150 people might be dependent on these drugs throughout the country is woefully inadequate. It would be my contention that there may even be that number of people who have a dependency on the drugs in Dunedin alone\u2014perhaps even more. I am sure that many of my colleagues around the Chamber tonight would get up and say that they know of dozens and dozens of cases of people who have a terrible dependency on these drugs, and of the impact that it is having on their families and their communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister to please tell the Committee what plans are in place for increasing the resources that are available through the Ministry of Health\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022d65a10ab942049708ba3c6c3d6552f31\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d65a10ab942049708ba3c6c3d6552f31\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Just to touch on a couple of the questions that members have raised, implementation of the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill is going to be a priority for the Ministry of Health. A considerable amount of work and effort has gone into it. If I look at the drafting of this bill, it has involved Crown Law, health, legal, outside Queen\u2019s Counsel, and the Parliamentary Counsel Office. So we have had lawyers for Africa helping us with this bill, and the ministry is very focused on the implementation. In fact, I have been advised that even today the police and the Psychoactive Substances Regulatory Authority have been working together in respect of visiting a number of retail premises to ensure they are aware of their obligations. I will talk about those later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe Ministry of Health is in very close contact with addiction treatment providers across New Zealand, and it is going to continue to liaise with them and to conference at least weekly in order to gauge what is happening around the country. A recent national teleconference shows that all services, as the member Clare Curran has noted, have noticed a particular increase in inquiries and the seeking of treatment. In respect of the recent announcement of this bill, even that has encouraged some of that increase. Preparations are under way to make sure that services can meet this level of support. The ministry has material and information that is available. The Alcohol Drug Helpline has agreed to extend its services during weekdays with an extended period of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EEmergency department physicians have also met. They are not expecting any major disruptions, but the emergency department leaders will maintain surveillance and support, and advice will be fed through to the Ministry of Health. I have had discussions with a number of district health board chief executives, who advise that their district health boards are ready and able and that they do expect to be able to have the resources to meet community demand. The Government will be keeping a very close eye on this because we all share the concerns the member has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u002251f84a1ae98746ca80d48bc413083734\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251f84a1ae98746ca80d48bc413083734\u0022\u003EMEKA WHAITIRI (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. I rise, with all members of this Committee, to lend my support to the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill. All I can say, to be succinct, is thank goodness. Thank goodness for the communities up and down this country who rallied and who marched to get these terrible drugs out of our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dee7c3db66cd4a57acc3a3cffe52e3f8\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Meka, can you say thank you to Billy Graham. I forgot to, in my speech, for the work he did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232717a67587b401ba79c6089d825d031\u0022\u003EMEKA WHAITIRI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I was going to mention him, Mr Mallard. Many of the members on this side of the Chamber and other members who care passionately about their communities have been invited to, got involved with, or been part of a lot of the rallies that occurred up and down the country. I for one was fortunate to join in the rally down in Naenae with Billy Graham, who called it down there. He is a wonderful person, who is passionate about the community of Naenae. I was attending with my colleague the Hon Trevor Mallard; the Mayor of Hutt City, Ray Wallace; councillors; and community workers. Clearly, the meeting that was held in Naenae was a reflection of the community\u2019s absolute disdain for these drugs\u2014their absolute disdain for these drugs\u2014and their desire to get rid of them. So in Naenae the message was clear, and both Trevor and I as parliamentarians representing areas of the Hutt were charged with bringing this message to Parliament to say that people in Naenae wanted them banned completely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EFrom Naenae, I was fortunate enough to attend another rally. That was called by councillors of the Hastings District Council, again to say that people do not want these substances regulated; they actually want them banned. So, again, attending that rally, that message was clear to those who were there. The local paper, Hawke\u2019s Bay Today, watched the people who went in an outlet that was selling them, and the front page of the paper showed people going in over the space of 6 minutes. It was enough for me to say that people in Hastings do not want these drugs and want them banned. So that was community meeting No. 2. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EFollowing on from the steps of that meeting, I met with the Gisborne District Council and the Mayor of Gisborne, Meng Foon, who, again, asked what this Government is doing about these substances because they want them banned. Across the river, the one outlet there has people coming in. The feedback from concerned people in Gisborne was asking what we are doing in Parliament and saying we need to take the message to this Government yet again because regulation is not meeting what they want as community leaders and community workers. They want them completely banned. Following that, there were two more rallies, one in Napier and, again, one in Hastings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EMy point is about the passion and the drive of our communities to say that these are bad substances that are in our communities and are infecting our wh\u0101nau, and we need to get rid of them. I again want to support not just the people who were mentioned in bringing the amendment\u2014clearly, the Government has had an about-turn from all the feedback it has received. But the original Act, the Psychoactive Substances Act, is one of those where you wonder how it actually got in. I need to acknowledge that I was not in the House at the time, but I definitely\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245fe24c817074508a52a7a7688074982\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Oh! Blame us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022693cc1277b6f47e4bd46d60704aba784\u0022\u003EMEKA WHAITIRI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Yes, that is right\u2014I was not in the House. But, look, it is like collective responsibility. If you are a parliamentarian, you have to defend that this was passed. But, like I have said, I am happy to stand here and say that we have amended that Act. The substances are going to be banned. I know that the people of places like Maraenui, like Flaxmere, like Kaiti, like Elgin, and like all the small communities that I stand here proudly to represent will be absolutely pleased that we are making this move to completely ban these substances. So that is my small contribution to what I consider is a very important bill and something for which all our communities have rallied to say enough is enough. So I support this bill. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022f454a75bb3fb4611b39cf9885452365b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f454a75bb3fb4611b39cf9885452365b\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E I am going to take just a short call on the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill. I am not on the Health Committee, which will review this particular bill. I have attempted to look quickly through it prior to it coming here. I think we should welcome the decision that the Government has taken. Although, of course, Labour claims some responsibility for that, I think it is also kudos to the wider community out there who demanded of this House that the way forward for us was to change the legislation that we initially passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EOne of the groups that was quite vocal\u2014and rightly so\u2014against the previous legislation was local government throughout New Zealand. I wonder whether the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Health, would be able to crystallise information for local government in New Zealand, in particular, on just how this new legislation will impact on the role of local government. As I said, just quickly scanning the legislation, there is no reference to it there other than reference to the Psychoactive Substances Expert Advisory Committee. The Minister should know that with the previous legislation local authorities up and down this country were quite vocal about the responsibility that the previous legislation imposed on them without giving them the appropriate protection in how to advocate strongly for the views of their particular communities. I suspect that local government would be happy that we have essentially followed the advice that it has given this Government by banning the availability of many, if not all, of the legal highs that were available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThere is another concern, I believe, which was one of the reasons why I was supportive of the previous legislation, and that is the concern about what happens if when we are banning these legal highs that then makes them available for the underground market. I think that although we welcome the U-turn of this Government in this legislation and although we welcome its U-turn on testing these substances on animals, there are those two particular issues that I wonder whether the Minister would be able to shed some light on\u2014first, the role that local government plays in the new legislation, and, second, the efforts that need to be made to prevent the black market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EAs everybody else in this Chamber has said, these products are a scourge in our community. I suspect that no one here in this Chamber who is a parent would like to see their children picking one of these things up and consuming it. Not too long ago there was an email that was circulated within the emails of Government departments where somebody suggested that there was a legal product being produced that would taste like a strawberry and look like a strawberry. I think the police identified that it was a scam, but these are the potential dangers that I think still lie unanswered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI remember that in 2001 the community in \u014Ctara and the \u014Ctara Music Arts Centre brought down a group called the Boo-Yaa T.R.I.B.E, who were Samoan rap dancers. They were hard-core rappers who came down to talk to the young people here about their experiences living in Los Angeles. The issue, obviously, got on to drugs. What I recall from that conversation was that they said that New Zealand had not yet experienced the full force of the kinds of bad drugs that they saw on their particular streets. The fact that we have allowed some of this stuff to be on sale for a while now is still cause for concern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ESo, yes, I welcome the legislation, but I wonder whether the Minister is able to just shed some light. It is not clear to me from the legislation before the Committee what role local government plays and what the transition process is. Although I suspect that local government will welcome the banning of these substances, there is a strong mood within local government throughout New Zealand at the moment that this Government tends to impose legislation on local government and then let local government pay for it. I think it has every right to do so, but I think that shedding some light on what that responsibility is would be very, very helpful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EFinally, also, how do we then address the black market? If we are banning these substances and we are going to make it difficult for some of these things to be produced and sold to our young people\u2014and I agree with the banning and I agree to our making it difficult\u2014how do we make sure that they are not readily available in other markets? Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022bfc4ac2260dc4f00b57609e89afc2a3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bfc4ac2260dc4f00b57609e89afc2a3e\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E When we rush legislation, there are frequently poor outcomes. That has been acknowledged by a number of members in the House. I want to make a short contribution, covering one of the background informers about this situation that is lesser known and not so much in the public eye. Certainly, in my area, I want to draw attention to the work that Clare Curran did in Dunedin to raise awareness and an appetite for action. We together visited an outlet in South Dunedin recently, close to a community mental health facility. It was pretty shocking to see the fly-by-night nature, the lack of any investment. There was a real awareness that this was a dangerous business to be in, just from walking into the shop itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EBut I wanted to speak a little bit more about the poisons line\u2014the National Poisons Centre in Dunedin\u2014which has advised on the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill. I know that the centre supported the Government\u2019s decision-making in the original Psychoactive Substances Act and that it has provided a huge amount of support to those wrestling with addiction in recent times. If viewers at home can pause for a minute and imagine that their child, perhaps an 18-month-old, has swallowed a range of unidentified pills or maybe even some leftover synthetic cannabinoids, and they are then in the situation where the child is frothing at the mouth or unconscious, currently we have the ability to ring an 0800 helpline: 0800 POISON. It is written on most toxic products in New Zealand. But what many people at home may not appreciate is that currently the Government has a proposal that it is consulting on that would roll Healthline, Quitline, the Alcohol Drug Helpline, the National Depression Initiative, problem gambling support, and the 0800 POISON number into one service. I want to suggest that this raises a number of serious questions that I would like the Minister of Health to address, either now or in his third reading speech, because this is raising concerns in our communities. Where these poisons exist, a need exists for a service that is supported by professionals and that is able to respond immediately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis proposal to roll these services into one service, one helpline, has been parodied on TV. I am aware of a parody that literally imagines a scenario where the line is called and it says: \u201CIf you would like to speak to Healthline, press 1. If you would like to speak to Quitline, press 2. If you would like to speak to the Alcohol Drug Helpline, press 3. If you would like to speak to the National Depression Initiative, press 4. If you would like to speak to problem gambling support, press 5. And if your child is frothing at the mouth and unconscious, press 6 and please hold for the operator.\u201D This is an abominable thought. It is truly unacceptable that we would get to that point, where people were waiting for such a service, where people were not able to immediately access the service. This service, which supported the legislation that the Government consulted on\u2014this particular service that the Government consulted in the formation of the Psychoactive Substances Act and in the legislation we are passing through the House now\u2014and which the users of these substances have regularly used, is under threat. Its funding is only $1.5 million a year from the Government, and yet it maintains a database that, together with the service, costs around $2.8 million a year. The data is constantly being updated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis service is under threat. I would urge members of the public watching this debate who are concerned about the 0800 POISON service going\u2014for all of the advice that is provided post-9/11 on chemical threats, for all of the advice it provides every day for addicts and for those people who have swallowed unidentified items\u2014to contact the Minister of Health to express their concern. The current process that is being engaged in is called a constructive dialogue. At the start when this proposal was launched, there was going to be a competitive tender process. That has since been shifted into what is called a constructive dialogue. That smells and looks a lot like a process that is opaque. That is worrying. We do not need cronyism in this aspect of our reform. There may well be some economies of scale to be gained by rolling many of these services together, but it seems highly unlikely that rolling in the 0800 POISON service makes sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EClause 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EClause 5 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EClause 6 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EClause 7 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EClause 8 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ESchedule agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d7e94ada54244d30839b15604eb9fcb6\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u002210e1e29dfb1c47e09d147e855e990355\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210e1e29dfb1c47e09d147e855e990355\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Associate Minister of Health: I move, That the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill be now read a third time. I would like to thank all members for their contributions to the debate, and particularly thank all those party representatives who have worked so constructively with the Government over the last 48 hours in respect of the bill, such that we have been able to build a broad consensus across the House on the issues in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThis bill, when it comes into force, will remove from the market all psychoactive products with interim approval. The police and the Psychoactive Substances Regulatory Authority have been working closely to prepare for the change. Starting today, police and authority enforcement officers have been visiting retail premises to ensure that affected parties are aware of their obligations. Retailers are being advised that they need to secure all products and return them to the wholesaler. Wholesalers are being advised that they will be required to recall all the products from their customers. Manufacturers will be advised that they will need to recall all products and dispose of them as directed by the authority. All parties will be advised that they can be expected to be visited by the police and the Psychoactive Substances Regulatory Authority enforcement officers, and that any non-compliance may affect their ability to reapply for a licence under the full regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe day this legislation commences there will be active enforcement. At 12.01 a.m. on Thursday, 8 May the legislation will come into force and makes it clear that no one may sell, supply, or possess psychoactive substances. Later that day police and enforcement officers will visit all retailers to ensure that products have been removed from public view and are being returned to the wholesaler. As part of the recall notice, retailers and wholesalers will be required to maintain records of what products are returned, when they are returned, and which manufacturers they are returned to. This will be matched against information from manufacturers about what products they received, from whom, and when. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EIt is also very important for us to consider the people who may be dependent on the products that this bill removes from the market. The Ministry of Health expects that some people will experience serious symptoms from ceasing to use these psychoactive products, and withdrawal from these products can last for 2 weeks or longer. I explained to the House during the Committee stage that the Ministry of Health is working very closely with the sector to monitor these things. I am advised that the addiction treatment sector believes it can manage this demand within existing resources, but the Ministry of Health will continue to monitor that very closely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EOn what this legislation does, this Parliament is quite clear. We are removing the interim licences so these products that were previously enjoying an interim licence will no longer have a licence, be licensed, and will not be able to be sold, supplied, or possessed. We are allowing that the individual retailers can maintain their licence for 2 weeks, and the purpose of this is to enable the authorities to have access to the retail premises and ask questions and obtain information from the people with their retail licences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe Government is indicating that regulations will be passed in the next few months on the testing requirements needed to consider any new applications under this legislation. Parliament is being quite explicit in inserting a principle into the legislation and making it very clear in a provision that we will not accept any information that comes from animal testing in support of any application. Parliament is also being clear that this is notwithstanding new section 12(2), in clause 6, which makes it clear that we will be prepared to consider animal-testing data from overseas only when that data can be used to decline an application under this legislation. Parliament is also being quite clear that there will be no compensation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe message from this Parliament is very clear. As of 12.01 a.m. on Thursday, these products are no longer legal and it will be an offence to sell, supply, or possess psychoactive substances. I would like to thank all members for their participation in this debate, and give them an assurance that the Ministry of Health will be working very closely with the regulatory authority and the police to ensure that the message is out there: Parliament has changed the rules; those licences are removed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022702e74177ee64cccaeb5bc8067dca20f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022702e74177ee64cccaeb5bc8067dca20f\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E In accordance with the agreement amongst the parties in the House tonight, I seek leave for the House to sit past 10 p.m. to complete the third reading of the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022dab8004d4eb94f53b0346e29c1242d3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dab8004d4eb94f53b0346e29c1242d3b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u002262b73acac63d4cf8970c0392c9076e56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262b73acac63d4cf8970c0392c9076e56\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Labour supports the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill because it removes the transition provisions from the Psychoactive Substances Act, which in effect will remove from the market all the untested drugs that are currently available on the market, and it also removes the provisions that allow for animal testing of psychoactive substances in any tests that are used to prove that a psychoactive substance is of low or no risk. It improves, but does not overturn, the original Psychoactive Substances Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI want to remind anybody who thinks that passing the Psychoactive Substances Act was a mistake that before it was passed, we had no regulation over psychoactive substances at all. There was an unknown number of products out there being sold from an unknown number of outlets. When the original Act was passed, we took control. We now know how many products are out there for sale, and more have been removed from the market since the original Act was passed. We now know how many retailers there are out there. We even know who wants to import substances so that they can carry out research on products to perhaps make them one day become approved products. We know a lot more about what is going on in the legal high industry as a result of the passing of the original Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EHowever, it was not enough. It did not satisfy legitimate concerns about untested substances being available on the market and being used by people, particularly young people, without us being fully cognisant of what both the short-term and long-term effects of those products are. The decision to leave on the market the products for which there had been no previous complaints made was made for legitimate reasons by a select committee, the Health Committee, that was under pressure to deliver on a very, very short deadline to meet the Government\u2019s requirements. But it was, it turns out, the wrong decision to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EOverturning that decision has been an amazing demonstration of people power\u2014the people who have demonstrated in towns and cities around New Zealand, and the people who have lobbied their MPs. I do not think there is probably a single electorate MP or list MP in this House who has not had a very large number of people come and ask that we improve the legislation. Those people have worked tirelessly to ensure that their representatives understand what it is that they want to have done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI want to particularly acknowledge in my own community the people on the Psychoactive Substances Task Force, which is a self-established group within the city, and which I have been a member of. It has involved the police, it has involved concerned parents, and it has involved health practitioners. It was formed ostensibly to make submissions to our local council to make sure it made the best use of the provisions in the Act to apply a local approved products plan. But also, as time went on, it became a lobbying vehicle. As a member of it, I found I was spending more of my time being lobbied by the people in the group than talking about what we were going to talk about with the council. That was fair enough\u2014that was fair enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI hope that everybody in that group and people around the country know tonight that the politicians have listened. We have responded, and I think we have responded in a way that does what people wanted us to do, which is to get rid of these untested drugs without undermining the original intent of the legislation. That is a position that, it seems, a number of parties arrived at independently. We could all see that this bill is the smart way forward, and I do want to acknowledge the Minister of Health, Tony Ryall, for his work in ensuring that we did get cross-party consensus on this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWe want to pass this legislation tonight. I find it slightly ironic that we are rushing to fix up a mistake that was caused by rushing the original legislation, but, nevertheless, the people want these drugs off the market, and that is what Parliament wants to do. We want to do it tonight, so let us get the job done and do what the people want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7de5277b63e4a9fa4a9ea28545e1207\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7de5277b63e4a9fa4a9ea28545e1207\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak briefly in this third reading of the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill. Undoubtedly, for 20 years or so, successive Governments have been grappling with how best to minimise harm from psychoactive substances and their use, and availability in New Zealand has burgeoned over the last few decades. This is a very complex area and, undoubtedly, those who manufacture psychoactive substances are continually trying to invent new substances that detrimentally affect New Zealand families and young people. In fact, nowhere in the world are there clear answers as to how best to deal with this problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EHowever, as Iain Lees-Galloway has said, prior to the Psychoactive Substances Act, which we are amending, coming in, we did not have a regulatory regime, and there is little doubt in my mind that the Act remains the best way we know of dealing with emerging psychoactive substances. This amendment bill revokes all interim approvals for psychoactive substances. It has emerged from an outpouring throughout New Zealand of the concerns of ordinary people about these substances, and the Government has acted very decisively. Many speakers have indicated that perhaps there are simple solutions. They are wrong. Many people have indicated that the science around ensuring there is minimal risk is easy. They are wrong. It is not easy, nor is the science around animal testing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThere is no doubt that the National Government is constantly monitoring world literature to do everything possible to ensure that we exercise best practice in this country. I do find it absurd that the Green Party is abstaining, but, nevertheless, the rest of Parliament is in agreement that the best thing we can do is send clear messages at this stage and then progress on and use best practice science and evidence to ensure we do everything possible to minimise harm and protect the health of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u00225a74b864a0b54e90aeff0a756298a5e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a74b864a0b54e90aeff0a756298a5e2\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker. Thank you very much for this opportunity to speak in the third reading of the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill. As a member of the Health Committee, which heard the primary piece of legislation, I want to reiterate the sentiments shared across the House that the context that the country was facing was one where these products were out there. We needed a regime that regulated them, but what we have seen is that regime fall short of creating the appropriate framework for us to determine what safe substances are. In fact, what we have seen is that the substances that are currently available have been incredibly detrimental to the health and well-being of our communities right across the country. It was an honest attempt by the select committee within the context of a bill that needed to be rushed through by 1 August, because the Associate Minister of Health, the Hon Peter Dunne, had temporary class drug notices for 30 substances and 50 products that would have expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EWe had to react and create a regime that now has enabled us as a society, a community, to regulate these products, and I guess the next test for the Minister of Health is, in fact, the development of the psychoactive product approval process. I know that that consultation process concluded at the end of March. It is part of a work programme that could eventually see some types of products be available for our communities. It is within that context that I want to highlight, from the primary legislation, the local approved products policy. As a select committee we were really clear that local communities, local government, should be empowered with tools to then be able to say where these products should be sold. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI want to congratulate our local government representatives around the country on passing the ball back to Parliament so that we could create this framework to enable safe substances to be sold. I want to highlight that the ball is in their court about where those products can be sold, so all of them should continue with their consultations, and with their development of these local approved products policies in anticipation that, eventually, there may be some products that will be available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI think it is worth highlighting that, because we were also really clear through this process that prohibition was not the answer. I know that my colleague Kevin Hague had some particular perspectives around that, given that the most damaging drug in our country is alcohol, and many New Zealanders die through the consumption of alcohol coupled with tobacco. As a mature nation, we had to have, I guess, a grown-up conversation about where these psychoactive substances fit within the context of us regulating those substances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI am not going to talk for much longer, but I do want to highlight that there have been incredible activists in our community. There is a woman called Julie King who lives in Tokoroa. She is part of a group called Love Soup. I have never been there, but I have seen her Facebook posts. She is an ordinary, passionate woman living in our community. She loves her community and she was really concerned about what these products were doing not only to the young people but to the people within that Tokoroa community. She took it upon herself, with other people within that community, to make a stand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge that engagement, because I think that what we have seen in this process is that democracy does work, that people actually do have power, and that when they develop a critical mass, they will get reactions from political parties and people in power. So we do have to commend the Government for doing something. At the end of the day it does not matter who did what because we are all here tonight and our votes will be recorded. There is some consensus about the passing of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to thank a local group called group called the Warriors of Change. They are young people based in Manurewa. On 11 May 2013 they organised a rally. We had a shop right in the middle of the Manurewa township, and the young people decided that they did not want these products sold in their community. I want to commend them for their activism and for their motivation to show that as a community they did not want the shop where it was and they did not want these products sold. I want to credit them, the local board members, and local bodies right around the country for the work that they have done. As we have seen, through collective action pieces of legislation like this one can be passed, and they are actually going to benefit the people of our communities in New Zealand. Kia ora. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6a0c00a44304c9389a56db8ed924737\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6a0c00a44304c9389a56db8ed924737\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I want to begin by, as others have done, thanking the Minister of Health for consulting the Green Party on his draft bill, the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill, last night. Again I record that the Green Party will be abstaining on this bill. I know that others have been puzzled by that, but the simple fact is this. This bill does two things. One of those things we strongly support and the other we strongly oppose. It leaves us with no other respectable position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI want to continue from where I left off with my second reading speech. In the second reading I spoke about some of the reasons that lay behind the widespread community concerns about the availability of these substances and how those were based on incorrect understandings of the law and of the situation around this wide range of substances, and my concern about the failure of the Government to respond to that misinformation with leadership and proper information. In this speech I want to focus not so much on that issue as on the response of the Government to the current situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThis bill reimposes prohibition. The Law Commission, the Ministry of Health, the New Zealand Drug Foundation, the vast majority of submitters on the original bill, the Health Committee, the Minister of Health, and this Parliament were all right\u2014prohibition does not work. It seems bizarre to me that I need to be making the argument for that case, since so many members of the House in fact made that point and made those arguments in the various debates that we held in the House on the original bill. I will not quote members tonight. But the fact is that that is the approach that the Government is now imposing in the interim. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI am just going to run through some of those arguments. The thing about prohibition is that it does not suppress demand. It may reduce it very slightly, but the fact is that demand still exists and the market will still respond to that demand with supply. In a couple of months\u2019 time, if the Campbell Live programme takes its camera crews out to Naenae, maybe from about 10 o\u2019clock at night through to maybe 1 o\u2019clock or 2 o\u2019clock in the morning, and instead of going to the shop it goes to the alley behind the shop, it is going to find demand being met by supply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EProhibition takes supply out of the hands of regulated, controlled retailers and instead puts that supply into the hands of criminal gangs or other illicit suppliers. Unfortunately, what that means is that the drug dealer on the street in the alleyway behind the shop at Naenae and the drug dealer in the tinny house are not subject to those same controls. Those people supplying the demand that will not go away as a result of this bill tonight will not be checking people for their ID or for proof of age. We should expect that supply to people under age will increase as a result of this bill. Those people will not be making a distinction between those products that are low risk and those products that are high risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EWe should expect that the supply of products that are high risk will increase as a result of this bill. Those people, those illicit drug dealers, will, in addition to having a range of psychoactive substances\u2014those currently legal and those currently illegal\u2014have, in another pocket, other drugs like methamphetamine. So the product of this bill will be that the demand, which will not go away as a result of this bill, will also be met by the increased supply of currently illicit drugs. We are going to be seeing a significant increase in harm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EAs the prohibition on cannabis has proven, demand is not suppressed by prohibition. Cannabis is absolutely prohibited, and yet most adult New Zealanders have smoked cannabis. It has not suppressed the demand. Further, this bill, which is going to be passed tonight\u2014and I respect the fact that the Green Party speaks in a minority on this bill\u2014undermines the very Act that it amends, because what will happen as this bill is passed is that it will set the platform for illicit chains of supply for psychoactive substances, and those chains of supply will still exist when the bill takes full effect. So rather than a managed transition in which we move from having a completely unregulated market through to having a regulated market, we do our best in the passage of this bill to undermine the regime that we are trying to impose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EOthers have spoken about the need for treatment services to be put in place, because one of the consequences of this bill for any people who do have some degree of dependence on any of the substances that currently exist is that they will find that they suddenly have no access to a legal supply of the substance on which they are dependent. So that is one of the problems around supply. I welcome Mr Ryall\u2019s comments about the preparations he has made, but I note that none of that actually increases the supply of treatment services. None of that actually deals with the withdrawal that we fully anticipate\u2014which Dr Leo Shep has spoken about\u2014with this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThere is another matter related to access to treatment services. With the passage of this bill, those people who wish to access treatment services, or who have a need to access treatment services, will find those treatment services harder to access, and that is for a couple of reasons. The first is that there will no longer be information at the point of sale or on the products about how to access treatment services. So that is one of the reasons. The other reason is that in order for people to be able to access treatment services once this bill is passed, they will need to admit to criminal offending. That will be a significant barrier for many, as it is for those who require treatment for dependence on other currently illicit substances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to speak about stockpiling, and there has been some reference to stockpiling in this debate tonight. One of the consequences of this bill and of the Government\u2019s approach to this bill is that there will be stockpiling\u2014there has already been stockpiling\u2014and the consequence of that is twofold. On one hand, it actually increases the supply of these substances to fuel the illicit trade that we should fully anticipate will take effect from tomorrow night, and, on the other hand, it also means that individuals will have much larger quantities of these substances that will become illicit. That means that they will be more subject to crime. Also, that larger supply of these substances is inherently more dangerous. So I am very disappointed that rationality and evidence-based policy are the casualties of this bill tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI was proud of the quality of the debate, of the maturity of the debate, that we had around the original bill, the Psychoactive Substances Bill, and I think it is unfortunate that probably most members of this House understand that the bill that we are passing tonight will make the harm from these substances worse and not better. The Green Party will be abstaining on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u0022639b4e057a5d41f38abaab5eb3f4d3b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022639b4e057a5d41f38abaab5eb3f4d3b7\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of New Zealand First, I would like to rise to support the third reading of the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill. We are pleased that prompt action has been taken by the Minister of Health, Minister Ryall, so we would like to commend him for that action. We are pleased too with the participation of all parties in this House and their desire to ensure that this legislation is passed as quickly as possible. There has been huge concern in our communities about psychoactive substances, and there is no simple solution to the issue of taking these psychoactive substances. Whether they are legal or illegal, we are pleased that the psychoactive substances that are being sold in shops throughout New Zealand will not be available on Thursday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe are pleased too to support the new testing regime regarding animals. We know that Parliament wanted to reduce the harm of these psychoactive substances, yet the bottom line was that the legislation had to be right, and it was difficult to get it right. On this occasion we did not get it right. We did not do enough, but tonight we have put it right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe wanted to reduce the harm that these substances were having right around New Zealand. We have to thank the people who came into our offices with the very sad stories about their youngsters who had taken these particular substances and who were continuing to take these substances. We understand that the information is not available as to how many people are going to actually seek help regarding the substance-taking. We know it is far harder to get off these chemical highs than it is to get off the natural products, so we are told. So I was pleased to hear the assurance from the Minister that there will be resources available for all of those who seek help in this particular instance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIt is ironic that the profit margin for the product owners, manufacturers, and sellers of these particular synthetic drugs is large. I was interested to read that the annual retail sales in New Zealand total around $140 million, so it is little wonder that the dairy owners were not happy when the legislation changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EI must acknowledge the efforts too of Julie King, who organised the recent marches right throughout New Zealand. It was a credit to her. It is no little thing to do that, so thank you, Julie. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ETonight in New Zealand First we are very happy to support this bill. These products will never be safe. We are pleased that the products are going to be withdrawn from shops in our communities. There was not anything positive to come from these synthetic drugs, only misery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u00223ea5ddaed3dd4b9ba18b53fdb45eaf9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ea5ddaed3dd4b9ba18b53fdb45eaf9e\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take the last call on this Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill. I just want to acknowledge Minister Ryall for the work that he has done behind the scenes. This is a very, very difficult piece of legislation because it is a very, very difficult area of drug law because of the challenges that these chemicals present, which the drug manufacturers and the drug pedlars have exploited for many years now\u2014since the late 1990s, in fact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EI am a little shocked, but we expect what we expect from the Green Party. To abstain on something like this because Green Party members have strong views for and strong views against, when the New Zealand public are struggling desperately with this subject\u2014this whole Parliament has been\u2014shows us really how unprepared that party is for ever being on the Government benches, because every day a Government deals with matters that it has to make tough calls on. We cannot please all of the people all of the time. That party seems to think that if it cannot fall on one side or the other, it will just sit squarely in the middle. Actually, the New Zealand public expect greater of them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d36dab58119849e2acb6c6e04f72da28\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: Split the bill then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db5ec01325004dcdaadf7b26df13ca10\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and although I have the greatest respect for Kevin Hague, I do not actually believe he has done his party any service today. Green Party members have demonstrated why they should never get anywhere near these Government benches. The public deserve better from them than abstaining on something that is very, very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EWhat this legislation does is it removes the 41 products that were on the shelves as part of the transitional regime. With the benefit of 20:20 hindsight, one could suggest that these products would have been harmful. They are made up of compounds and chemicals largely unknown to science that really serve only one purpose, in my view, and that is to make the drug pedlars money through the misery of addiction. These substances lock very quickly into the neurotransmitting parts of the brain and very quickly cause addiction and goodness knows what other psychological disorders. So this legislation gets rid of those 41 products and says that they will also have to prove that they are of low harm. I have expressed to this Parliament that low harm means that they cannot have a possibility of causing addiction\u2014which is harmful\u2014so I will be watching on with interest as to how this issue is traversed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EIt also removes the animal testing provision. I have absolutely no problem with that. What we are dealing with here is that if we have to raise the bar and say to those people that the standard for them as a drug manufacturer needs to be higher, because if it is going to be used by humans we do not believe that animals should be subject to that, well, that is fair enough. Actually, I do not think we should lose too much sleep if the onus going on drug manufacturers is that little bit tougher. So if they need to spend more millions and it takes them longer to be able to get their product to a position where it is available to go back on the shelves, then so be it. I actually hope that what this legislation does is to put out of business drug pedlars, drug manufacturers, and those who would create addictive substances to create misery through addiction in order to make money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EI want to commend the Minister of Health for what he has done. I want to commend colleagues across the House for supporting this legislation. It is a tough piece of legislation. It is pioneering stuff. Today this Parliament has sent a very clear message about accepting the harms that are created by psychoactive substances. Could I ask the New Zealand public to please also accept that we all have a choice to make when it comes to ingesting things like these or other substances. The legal status of a drug is never going to alter the chemical nature of that drug and we should all remember that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EI commend this bill. I think it has been necessary, but at least we have got on and done what needs to be done. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e3f7c376bf564d94bd0e3555f39d1af2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 107\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 34; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 1; Mana 1; United Future 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 14\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000675\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.58 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20140506dd3dc13d54db4120a4f8665b7519068a000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"