"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022df70e8f085b8481b992ed175a26005f2\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 25 JUNE 2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ba6d05e01a4c44ed99d90b4f61372f22\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 25 JUNE 2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226089fa3eefbe40f5908dd692f4e5201d\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dc9cf8f3b8814f12a2e1bdede30f04ac\u0022\u003EPoland\u2014Senate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022656ba20294d4494c92ab4964d6985c5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022656ba20294d4494c92ab4964d6985c5d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure that members would wish to welcome a delegation from the Senate of Poland, led by His Excellency Mr Bogdan Boruswicz, Marshal of the Senate, and would wish that he be accorded a seat to the left of the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EHis Excellency Mr Bogdan Boruswicz, accompanied by the Deputy Speaker, entered the Chamber and took a seat on the left of the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022adbdae7ffc194fbf829544f0e06fd8f1\u0022\u003ECommittees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dec09abb42514f44b059401929fb77b4\u0022\u003EBusiness of Select Committees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022241b39977e754b859cf00f4440714fc8\u0022\u003EMeetings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022cfa8c72d84b2407f9db86afec6f22db8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cfa8c72d84b2407f9db86afec6f22db8\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Following discussions in the Business Committee, I seek leave for the Health Committee to meet outside of New Zealand with its counterparts in Australia from 14 July to 18 July 2014 as part of the annual joint committee exchange with Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8a95b20f9414e0e95f6634cf907ae3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8a95b20f9414e0e95f6634cf907ae3b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221ad682704c6b42b082e626fdb51100fd\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022305c8b074cad4edeb843465d6c1c1150\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002249c2bf4bcf894c8fbe83c2f9fe2cda74\u0022\u003EInequality\u2014Assets and Income\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022d239f9e9b0544f57af4d2c1097537f20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d239f9e9b0544f57af4d2c1097537f20\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he accept inequality, including asset inequality, is increasing in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022000ce2b6931a46a59d9efe8df2d233b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022000ce2b6931a46a59d9efe8df2d233b6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E No. The best evidence shows that income inequality is not increasing in New Zealand, and I am advised that there is no reliable time series on changes in wealth inequality. As the Minister of Finance noted yesterday, the OECD has reported that New Zealand was one of only six developed economies in which both income inequality and disposable income inequality were flat or slightly better between 2007 and 2011. This is quite an achievement through one of the worst recessions in decades. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bd9e1ae227a4c4a86b1ca7a04eeac5a\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Prime Minister feel about the Oxfam report that shows that the top 10 percent of wealthy New Zealanders own more than the other 90 percent put together?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9281fa380964769bced11eb6c5331f9\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I suspect that is probably similar to lots of parts of the world, but what I can say is that under a Labour Government, with its announcements today, every single New Zealander in KiwiSaver will be worse off when they have a capital gains tax on their KiwiSaver account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4bf76bd4037442686811733958ae866\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: How can he be so relaxed about the growing gap between the rich and poor, when the median income in, say, St Heliers has increased by $6,700 a year since 2006 to $42,700, while the median income in M\u0101ngere has fallen by $200 to just $19,700?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a73160728c64d818ef8bd6133d11159\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I did not actually say what the member said that I said. What I would say is that at a time when the economy is in surplus, when it is earning more than it is spending, putting a tax on every farm, on every business, and on every KiwiSaver will simply make the situation worse for so many New Zealanders. No wonder they will not vote for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bab274f484e459f8c660b579e8d881d\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, does the Prime Minister agree that a 35 percent increase in luxury car sales over the past 2 years while at the same time the number of children living in poverty has grown to 285,000 shows that inequality is rising, or does he not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256dc1675d7484654be9e4bf40141b187\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is not a reliable measure of income inequality. What would be worth noting, though, is that households that earn $60,000 or less\u2014that is, 50 percent of all New Zealand households\u2014pay $2.5 billion in tax and they receive over $7 billion in benefits. Through the worst of the economic times this Government has supported those most vulnerable New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220436b260550a44deb9992953f7c9d8ff\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Prime Minister feel about the fact that homeownership rates are at their lowest levels in 50 years, and does he think it acceptable that half of the pupils in schools in our lower income areas are changing schools once a year or more? So we have declining homeownership, dislocated children, and growing inequality\u2014how does he feel about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad152ab197e945eb867eddfebd8ffa0f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: One thing I do know is that if you put a capital gains tax on rental properties, as the member is suggesting\u2014because, in fact, virtually all property is excluded under the Labour plan\u2014what that will do is put rents up. So those who are renting a property and watching parliamentary question time today better know that under a Labour Government they will pay more. In other words, they will have less to spend. No wonder they will never support that policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271232afe1ac547ad9ad268efc6170cb2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: If New Zealand is doing so well and Australia is doing so bad, how is it that the income gap between New Zealanders and Australians has grown, not shrunk, since he has been the leader of this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdc2ee4d358140fab897d6e1c73e5039\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member is utterly wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261e4947ca6f645bfa95146bbf5cef832\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister think it is fair that the incomes of the top 1 percent of income earners in New Zealand have risen 10 times faster than the bottom 10 percent, and does he think that a capital gains tax might just help equalise some of that growing gap between the rich and the poor?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bafe33523f2642fb90b3f632bdcd82d3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the last part of the question, no. What is really important that New Zealanders understand is that a capital gains tax in the way that Labour has described today will be on every small business in New Zealand, every business in New Zealand, every KiwiSaver account in New Zealand, and every part of the productive sector of New Zealand. If we want people in poverty, then we should cancel their jobs, and that is what Labour would be doing\u2014putting a tax on prosperity for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccbf9f1ce8c448d38d4dad19878eae46\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Since the Prime Minister opened by quoting the OECD report and then went on to criticise our capital gains tax, could he confirm to the House whether his and the OECD\u2019s measure of income inequality that he just cited, includes capital gains as income, or would he accept that his credibility is now down the \u201CLiu\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220573a79822bb4b0c9f4980fd85cd078e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I would need to check the paperwork on that, and it would have been quite helpful if David Cunliffe had as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4df4ce779894da994c2dc6870fbc710\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Seeing as Mr Liu has been put into contention, how is it, Prime Minister, that just 6 weeks ago, according to Maurice Williamson, Mr Liu did not speak a word of English, so he could not have a relationship, but now he is singing like a bellbird to the Prime Minister in the best of English?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3e0770e092e4e1ebc23c23c1e2a087d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the Prime Minister considers there is any prime ministerial responsibility\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022657b06f1651349f889d7139016adf3e4\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Labour Opposition would like to yield a question to New Zealand First to enable Mr Peters to re-ask that question so that the Prime Minister can recover his memory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a48f330cc494af6bfbd895ef3feece7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member can resume his seat. I know we are in an exciting time of the year, but members still have to abide by the Standing Orders. Question No. 2\u2014Metiria Turei. [Interruption] Order! Show some respect to Metiria Turei, whom I have called for question No. 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221a17bf8ab82c4b99b7aca147bc501179\u0022\u003EChild Poverty\u2014Government Initiatives to Address and Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5d53286a4d3405db4fb99d5bb83ff4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5d53286a4d3405db4fb99d5bb83ff4e\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u002210f3fae261ed4459b5c12c87b80b2428\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210f3fae261ed4459b5c12c87b80b2428\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fb27578a73341c09f2990dcbb988128\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister stand by his rejection yesterday of research that showed 40 percent of New Zealand\u2019s poorest kids cannot afford a raincoat, given that the research was based on Ministry of Social Development data?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222506b9d92c2145a998f4cdf0e33edccf\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member is incorrectly paraphrasing me from yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216db28c832aa4df6bfea6624cafbb6f6\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister also think that Ministry of Social Development data is wrong when it shows that 42 percent of New Zealand\u2019s poorest children do not own two pairs of decent shoes because their families cannot afford them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022531fdcf9523d41c48024f4d2e5cafa25\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot talk about the veracity of their data, but what I can say is that the Government has been supporting the least well off New Zealanders through a variety of programmes, as I described yesterday, similar to the ones we are doing with KidsCan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c0f1bde6d304b25aa4df5c34ebf58cc\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister commit to reading even just a few pages of Bryan Perry\u2019s 2013 Ministry of Social Development report, which explains the basic items poorer Kiwi kids are regularly going without, because of the cost, such as their own bed, their school uniforms, all the way from their jumpers to their shoes, and healthy food?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eafef9800106452699ee71168bd71ee0\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have read part of the report and I have had Bryan Perry in my office. The very interesting thing, when you have him in your office and talk to him, is he is absolutely adamant that income inequality in New Zealand is not widening and has not widened. So if the member is now quoting Bryan Perry I congratulate her, because he is actually right, but it defeats her own argument.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ece6cef5c1dc4378be7f7c5c526eac59\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table two documents. The first is pages 196 to 200 of Household incomes in New Zealand: Trends in indicators of inequality and hardship, written by Bryan Perry, from July 2013, showing the non-monetary indicators of hardship and deprivation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d912e80c71844f8f908deb7e49ec3413\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And the second? Is that the two documents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d41750ff2f547c897b2bf20a28f10c6\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: The second document is page 9 from the Solutions to Child Poverty in New Zealand, showing also the level of deprivation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7828fea9c0a41ee896da7deaa8e995c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am assured that both of those documents are publicly and freely available to members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224839951904984df7bf7e79e4d55fed92\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree or disagree with the new Ministry of Health findings that 27 percent of M\u0101ori children do not go to the doctor when they need to, often because their parents cannot afford the cost of transport to get them to the doctor?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f724f3f04d5b41a5ba6d05988249ee32\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I cannot talk about the veracity of that quote. Often they are misquoted by the member. But what I can say is that this is the Government that provided free doctors visits for children under the age of 13. That is a tremendous step for any Government to take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282fbed8d28e847ca952f17a176be3452\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Prime Minister say to the House yesterday that the Government had borrowed $5 billion to support vulnerable New Zealanders during the global financial crisis, when in fact it borrowed $5 billion to pay for tax cuts for the very wealthy; and when will he stop blaming poor New Zealand children for the country\u2019s debt?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3c9b70835044ce7bc736e6b2e35f5dc\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member is quite wrong. But what the member is demonstrating, which she is in agreement with the Labour Party on, is that they want to tax New Zealanders a lot more. Fair enough, but that is going to slow the economy down, cost jobs, and put more people into welfare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3a84330c02b43fe85fc69c7a0417433\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister believe it acceptable for him to be wilfully ignorant of his Government\u2019s own evidence of serious child poverty and deprivation suffered by 25 percent\u2014one in four\u2014of all New Zealand children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc56d573d5d24e5c8fd627b478909a30\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member is wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e59258b23bdb41d48ad690d0d0a541d3\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221faa7f51d9c4411f80d8fd506a44cffe\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! This is a point of order and it will be heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022837ad0d40a8441b88cd6aa3f5d8eb974\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I just want to seek your assurance that the interjections from the Minister for Social Development that gave you the assurance that you needed to reject the tabling of documents will show in Hansard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d2c9f58a24f425589528994d40fd0e8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will have to wait and look at Hansard, but I doubt it. If there was not any response to the interjection, I would not expect them to show. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cbd6645ff6a4d22841329723256e42a\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9fb0a8d014a4b038f3a8aa5db11afa6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What is the point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cab8079012a4ebfa84219222275b4f3\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: The point of order is that you responded by saying you had received an assurance that they were in the public record. That was done by way of interjection while Metiria Turei was taking a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022331cc9fcbc044e4597899b9bd616e1ec\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I knew they were in the public arena. [Interruption] Order! We are not going to have a repeat of yesterday. When I am on my feet I expect all members to be silent, and that includes the Hon Trevor Mallard. I was listening very carefully to what those documents were. I am absolutely confident that they are within the public arena. They are easily available. In fact, I think I have had one of them across my desk relatively recently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234847c7cc48c415f89a954e5c248ee75\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed20d23ebd584825bd997d0a8317b1d8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Again, can I just check before I take this point of order that this is a fresh point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022841a218dc72d47229d954f8032e139a0\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It is a fresh point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220af829dcff4e4aeabcd9fc61dc46b5b8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and not in any way relitigating a decision I have already made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227be67ec47dd54e51a2ec05dd0df39cd8\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not. I have not relitigated any decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaf98013f0214c4d8d2ea9e75a6fb1fb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Then the member will get to the point. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f745013c6ca4bbeba8df88b2ce70a8c\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: My point of order is will you withdraw the assurance you gave the House that you had received\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278e745f4022d4d51b32b09597f0f678b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat, and if I get another point of order like that, the member will be leaving the Chamber for the balance of question time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb03abfe34044366aa6fbb5d15c9e765\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister take full responsibility for the fact that there are 45,000 more children living in severe poverty since he became Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf66d6bff74f49e9901c9b6961dce83e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: For a start off, that is not correct. What I will take responsibility for is that we have got one of the fastest-growing economies in the OECD. At the worst of times we borrowed billions and billions and billions of dollars to support New Zealanders in need, and we have got a system in New Zealand that is fair and highly redistributive, and that is the way it should be to protect the most vulnerable New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c47acf847b4d4282ad6f09ecab72cb83\u0022\u003EEconomic Programme\u2014Social Issues and Support for New Zealand Families\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0d9e8c6581940e28e704a9351f2d1f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0d9e8c6581940e28e704a9351f2d1f5\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: As part of its wider economic programme, what progress is the Government making in dealing with the most challenging social issues facing New Zealand families and children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a35c5491263748a9bff7c5b7b09d6d01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a35c5491263748a9bff7c5b7b09d6d01\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is making good progress. Much of this is as a result of the Better Public Services targets that the Prime Minister set in place a couple of years ago. By honing public services on specific and measurable objectives such as higher educational achievement, better health care, less crime, and less long-term welfare dependency, we are starting to make significant gains on those things that are a feature of long-term deprivation. For example, as at the end of 2013, 91 percent of babies were fully immunised by 8 months of age, and we are on track to achieve 95 percent by the end of this year\u2014much higher immunisation rates than at any time in the last 30 years. We are finding that what is good for communities is good for the Government\u2019s books, so we are willing to spend where we can get a pay-off and better results.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8c7376c7b2c42f5b8d4985699dd648d\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: What specific measures did the Government take in Budget 2014 to help New Zealand\u2019s children and families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226db093afcd834156a0e175eb5717bf49\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As New Zealand is one of a handful of developed countries heading into Budget surpluses, we believe it is important that all New Zealanders can benefit from a stronger economy and better Government books. In Budget 2014 we provided five elements of a $500 million package: $171 million to boost paid parental leave by 4 weeks to 18 weeks; $42 million to increase the parental tax credit from $150 a week to $220 a week and increase the entitlement from 8 to 10 weeks; $90 million to provide free doctors visits and free prescriptions for children aged under 13 years; $155 million to help early childhood centres remain accessible and affordable; and $33 million targeted on doing a better job for our most vulnerable children. So, although our spending is constrained, it is well targeted at where we can get results.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc616610efe240918bb2f1bc5e24cbdc\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: What other measures has the Government taken to support the most vulnerable New Zealanders, particularly those on low incomes facing challenging social issues?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022381cdccd6ef8448da8728c1593069960\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Despite the fact that we have had significant deficits, the Government has made a priority of supporting the most vulnerable. The Budget last year, for instance, included $100 million to extend the home insulation programme, $20 million for rheumatic fever prevention, $35 million for the Grandparents Raising Grandchildren Trust, microfinancing options for those on low incomes, and progressing a warrant of fitness for all State houses to ensure they meet basic requirements. In addition, the Government is working with other providers to provide free healthy lunches in schools that choose to take part in the programme. This is a range of measures designed particularly to help those who suffer from persistent deprivation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba1fac0786254c879098f55331424458\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: What were some of the main social challenges inherited by this Government in 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270e947cac9a347018458234f323df24f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: These were set out comprehensively in the Salvation Army state of the nation report of February 2008. It talked about the rising number of referrals for abused children and increased numbers under Child, Youth and Family care. It talked about rising youth offending, climbing teenage pregnancy rates, and continued educational inequality, and it talked about climbing prison numbers. This was all through a period when the economy was growing significantly. All up, the Salvation Army said that significant extra Government spending under the previous Labour Government contributed little to social progress. Since then we have been spending less and making a lot more progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229e7c49ec19104d00beaafe9e42df8eb6\u0022\u003EBudget 2014\u2014Revenue, Expenditure, and Return to Surplus\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002298f9037e24c74002bea708bcf06aea4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298f9037e24c74002bea708bcf06aea4f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does Budget 2014 show the full effect of revenue cuts and expenditure that the National Government expects over the next four years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00220649be0d4c1d4ec8a7c4d8b9e1cc017f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220649be0d4c1d4ec8a7c4d8b9e1cc017f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. It reflects all the decisions the Government has made and also any risks that Treasury sees both to expenditure and to revenue over the next 4 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022daaee511a47643fcb5c139dafbc5450f\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: What did he mean when he said that his next Budget \u201Cwill be the most radical restructuring of government spending in 50 years\u201D, as quoted in the Rod Oram column in the Sunday Star-Times?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7fa184ea6444d139e50e8bc31d7d10f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think that I actually said just what he wrote down, but it was in the context of a discussion about the greater use of data and analysis to understand at an individual level the needs particularly of our most challenged families and children, so that we can act individually across departments to change the path that those people are on\u2014investing now to save money later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022396486fc81834c88bba52464853762b2\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: So when will he show us the money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e9b120e664944efb66d6befce652d04\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: You can see in the surpluses the impact of a much more focused Government spend on reducing welfare dependency, and on reducing crime and the flow of people into the very expensive justice system. So the money is there in the surpluses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a536d3c2-6293-4216-b0bd-dfec1bd6f40c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022513fd9a9af4f4df5bd14597188b4d13d\u0022\u003EAndrew Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister of Finance assure the public that no Government payments arising under the Christchurch rebuild were deferred in order to achieve the surplus announced in Budget 2014?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aafcb338c3304f88a3e6e912f1343e9c\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264c0ed1fb0254a61baea462f9d805c4a\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Why will he not commit to maintaining the real value of health and education spending adjusted for inflation and population change through to 2021?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c7b9d4f6ff44c4986c3e04938dd92c9\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There is a very good reason why we will not commit to that. We do not fund the services just in order to have them; we put in more money to get better results. For instance, the Government has put more money into health, and it has achieved higher immunisation rates, shorter waiting times in emergency rooms, more elective surgery, and faster access to cancer treatment, even though the new money going in has not been as much as the Labour Party says it should be. That is Labour\u2019s problem: it just shovels money in and it thinks that is an indication of success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264d6cab4cd584dc1b24f6cae8b8a5313\u0022\u003ERichard Prosser\u003C/span\u003E: Is the fact that police are having to choose between protecting vulnerable children or pursuing organised crime yet another hidden cost of the so-called Budget surplus?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022071caa02d9234657b62a7792d8d608cc\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: If the member followed the activities of the Government, he would know that we are doing both, actually. We are pursuing organised crime in a vigorous manner, backed up by changes in policing activity and better use of intelligence, with a 20 percent reduction in crime. We are also spending more on doing a better job of supporting our most vulnerable children, where the issue is not so much about money; it is actually about how the Government organises itself and whether it is serious about protecting vulnerable children or is just maintaining its own agencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245f77e2700ac4a799e27fac78ccb03f8\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: By what date does his Government plan to have paid down all of the debt it has borrowed since 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228416c8d9074b4ebe928b6152aa86894e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: We have got a date, and a track that is honest about the numbers. The Labour Party says it can reduce debt by redefining it to make it look a lot smaller; we are not going to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269a168539eb64f3b83128c67c3182bf4\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fa73c9f1d1947dd9744a5bd0ac09bb4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the member to repeat the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aef36019a4c048a69bf4171bec5c4f77\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: By what date will the Government have repaid all of the debt it has borrowed since 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5e315db3b5f45d580da20841bcb9421\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is a slightly different question, but\u2014the Hon Bill English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be8b679c007d491cb55e185acfbc8963\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot give the member an exact date, but what I can tell him is that by the time of the election, we will not have done dodgy accounting to make it look like we are paying down debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232f5a2e8895d41b2874727e244d4f540\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister of Finance read pages 15 and 16 of the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2019s record last week, where Mr Brownlee confirmed that in the last Budget the Christchurch repair costs were down by approximately $500 million and that the Prime Minister has talked about an extra $5 billion being required into the future? That $500 million is, of course, the same sum that is in the surplus. Why should not someone conclude that the people of Christchurch\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022884fc4dff822430090dec7b2de222853\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Just bring the question to a conclusion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0b483054f334207966ab907f078ac50\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014are paying an awful cost for his mythical so-called surplus?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffb4808436624b52bc7ad3c7b77631cb\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot confirm that, simply because it is not correct. There has been no doubt about the Government\u2019s commitment to the rebuild of Christchurch, and at the same time there are ongoing discussions with the Christchurch City Council to ensure that it can meet reasonable costs but does that in the context of strong Government support. Of course, we do not know yet what the final numbers will be, because there are still some years to go in the rebuild of Christchurch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efc926eef52b497bbf9317dae50f26f7\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Seeing as it is apparently not available at this point in time to the Minister of Finance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022641eb81969534f2e888f2f637c7cfe26\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat. [Interruption] Order! The member has the opportunity to raise a point of order. I have failed to understand what the point of order was that the member was raising, but it is not a means of contesting the answer that has just been given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e802a3d8c7364b8fb83643b280093ff9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7d157c8359848c39925ce2841bd4272\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Then I will listen to the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b2c3a705a7141529686808e8be2257f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: That is the last thing I did. What I did was seek to table the transcript\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a3f55f76758466f951d5b209496e5f5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Then if the member wants to table something, the procedure is he rises to his feet and he seeks leave to table. [Interruption] No, he did not. He took a point of order and then there was a long lead-in to a rather garbled message\u2014[Interruption] Order! If the member wants to table a transcript from a select committee, that is something that I assume is freely available\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022136487ac34604e25a0ac18fa902896c8\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No. No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267a0e2d7e21a4eba93359f14b82fee7c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is not available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e81c093dc9984b6dbb15eeb2b310fae4\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fff50435a3aa4c8495756db0973aaef4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear from\u2014[Interruption] Order! The member wishes to speak to the point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211c6c5a176f5401a8c0b139348d40efc\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5e9339f8d134446b6eda5441c2bd21d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear from Mr Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229befc6e41d44438f905cc583a1edf8ba\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I am loath to make any comment, because the member is attributing a certain comment to me, which I am not disputing. However, these are transcripts from the estimates hearings, which are not yet reported to Parliament. They cannot be tabled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed5c47f3327849c1a12e814713352317\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: On the basis that they are not yet reported to Parliament, I do not think it is appropriate to put that leave, and I will not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8f2c48e92ff4ad6b4326dd1b9d37433\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f274ab8482894886b22f1ca8f6e44422\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I hope it is a point of order. Let us hear it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e184f066286408f9ff02893c2bb762c\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: You may be able to tell me before I make it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204508d6f30e84f48bfdf7531ae97f835\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226ee20dc1fc1409e83287d9029c072c0\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: You made a ruling in respect of Mr Peters. When you ruled you said, I think, that Mr Peters put a preamble in front of his point of order. Mr Brownlee did exactly the same thing by contesting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b8651dfb7fd4ec1bf0bd25dbd3f06ac\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat. [Interruption] Order! The member will be accompanying other colleagues if he also continues to talk when I rise to my feet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca38b7ac21954d21bb3fc810eadb2aba\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019d be a rather long queue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f45affea46f4d98872f354acfe8b16d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There could be a rather long queue; that is indeed so. [Interruption] Order! I was informing the Rt Hon Winston Peters of the correct process for tabling a document. The correct process is to raise a point of order and then simply say \u201CI seek leave to table a document.\u201D The member himself, Mr Cosgrove, has been here now for a few years. He should actually know that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229933c2d40d454d859c040aa376daf5e5\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. In this I am going to plead guilty immediately to contesting a ruling. A public\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290cfe68954e1414daf7eb6f26d704413\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member does not need to go any further. [Interruption] Order! The member does not need to go any further. I warned the member that if he was going to raise spurious points of order, I would be asking him to leave the Chamber. The member will now leave the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard withdrew from the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022075054b63c6541fe925d940405785a47\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b8627cc4dbc43cfaba5cc3ac0231135\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! We have another point of order. There is a habit developing here, but I will hear it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd48f34869b44595bb619f0dc293c205\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: It is a new point of order. The issue that I want to ask you to give further consideration on is that where a select committee meeting is held in public and a transcript is taken of it that would not otherwise be available to all members of the House, it seems quite reasonable that a member may seek leave to table that. If it was a confidential part of a meeting, it would therefore be subject to the privilege of the committee, but if it is a public session of the committee, then, in fact, members who were not present at the meeting would be disadvantaged compared with members who were. So I wonder whether you could give some further consideration to that matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e67337017f1f4cdba5bf09ed7b934d1d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. I will give it further consideration, but also affecting my decision will be the fact that all transcripts after the report back are subsequently available to all members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbebda7e789b4f9785105ee931df2b42\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: How has the Government used revenue reductions to make the tax system fairer for New Zealand households and families over the last 5 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022940c039b3eb648b7a6872268a7bfe833\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Over successive Budgets the Government has made a number of changes to repair the damage done to the tax system by the previous Labour Government. In particular, we have removed the ability for people to shelter their income, raised the effective tax rate on property investment, increased funding for the Inland Revenue Department to target property speculators, prevented people using investment losses\u2014including from rental properties\u2014to make themselves eligible for Working for Families and other Government support, and brought in stricter rules to ensure multinational companies contribute their fair share of tax. The result of all that is that people on the highest incomes now pay a slightly larger proportion of the tax then they used to when rates were higher but there were more loopholes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002258b2e26f5159494bbc1aeae683af013f\u0022\u003EBetter Public Services Targets\u2014Reduction in Reoffending\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00226940f605ff374994977e6f0d7d95bec6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226940f605ff374994977e6f0d7d95bec6\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: What progress has the Government made in reducing reoffending rates for prisoners?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00222a696904472449dbbc552d6c4eb68064\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a696904472449dbbc552d6c4eb68064\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to advise the House that the number of prisoners returning to prison within 1 year of release has dropped by 4 percent since June 2011, with a 3 percent drop last year. Prisoners are the most serious offenders in our community. Less than 10 percent of convicted offenders are imprisoned, and they often have a long history of criminal behaviour. For this reason they are often the most difficult offenders to successfully rehabilitate. Our unrelenting focus on rehabilitation has seen New Zealand\u2019s prison population stabilise. It is now forecast to fall in the coming years. By comparison, Australia\u2019s prison population has increased by 10 percent in the last 18 months. The House might also be interested to note that the current prison population is 8,600 prisoners, which is significantly lower than the 10,200 prisoners who were forecast by 2014 when Labour was last in Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2105faa44344951b4e2b96eb1c3b67f\u0022\u003EScott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: How has the Government achieved this reduction in reoffending by prisoners?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295469f36ae0f40a3920d58b003330f4b\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: To reduce reoffending, we are focused on tackling prisoners\u2019 alcohol and drug addictions, supporting them to get an education and work skills training, and providing them with appropriate support when they are released from prison. Every sentenced prisoner now receives an education assessment when they enter prison and has an individual learning programme developed. Since 2008 there has been a 1,500 percent increase in places on drug and alcohol programmes, a 155 percent increase in the number of offenders in numeracy and literacy programmes, and an 830 percent increase in the number of prisoners gaining qualifications from the New Zealand Qualifications Framework. To better support prisoners on release, corrections launched the Out of Gate programme last year, which sees prisoners work with a dedicated provider, connecting them with social services, and helping with accommodation, employment, and general living skills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c5651f0cc6f1403fa77f5526cc28fc0a\u0022\u003EDistrict Health Boards\u2014Health Benefits Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00225d5a16bf58314b7db826b6a1dcfd0041\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d5a16bf58314b7db826b6a1dcfd0041\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Labour\u2014Rongotai)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What recent action, if any, has he taken to find the leak of information relating to Health Benefits Limited?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u002259be432c9720491aa5c8041434b07e97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259be432c9720491aa5c8041434b07e97\u0022\u003EHon JO GOODHEW (Associate Minister of Health) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Health: None. However, the Minister of Health has been asked to comment on the document supposedly leaked, but that member will not make it public. It appears to be an undated, unsigned opinion piece printed on a plain piece of paper. I\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276f2679d50ae413e9e6e69321c1d2a75\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The question was asked. I want to hear the answer, even if some of the members here to my left do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eef2ed19bfa6499e9d08a57a6648703b\u0022\u003EHon JO GOODHEW\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the member to table it. The Health Benefits Ltd strategy aims to free up hundreds of millions of dollars for front-line services. It has already delivered over $200 million in savings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c777c568d6034ea88937705d30d55524\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219a17b15802d4ff998a9d1ce8226bea0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Points of order are heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221199a461028842a1a45ee166d4df1a22\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: They might need to leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ad4fb67925f45a8a5fa60533346f0d3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We do not need school teachers here; I just need\u2014[Interruption] Order! OK. [Interruption] Order! Now let us get back some order. I am going to hear a point of order from the Hon Annette King, and I am going to hope to hear it in absolute silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022302319f4baeb4085b74acd803b47a3d9\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I am seeking your guidance, in fact. The Minister, in her answer, said I have refused to provide the information. I have never been asked\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9710d7e2976492484499bb2a6968b4a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is not a valid point of order. If the member feels\u2014[Interruption] Order! If the member feels that in any way she has been misrepresented, she knows what to do\u2014refer to Standing Order 355.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267d2192a93a24f5fa09a0cbc13521bae\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Aha! Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd8a2c7ab12445a89d9392f49e5057da\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You asked for guidance; I am here to help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b9e5b3c76fc4d39aa9adb980de7533a\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Did he say in September 2012 that he would use powers under the Crown Entities Act\u2014powers he called \u201Ca very big stick\u201D\u2014to force district health boards into a partnership with Health Benefits Ltd if they did not comply with his instructions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f403b985f1649c686d3f5ae2425f73f\u0022\u003EHon JO GOODHEW\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have in front of me a transcript that would confirm that member\u2019s allegation that that is what the Minister said. However, what I do know is that the district health boards have taken some time to come to the table to see the benefits of this\u2014a little longer time than we would have wished. However, they are now all engaged in the various committees that will assist Health Benefits Ltd to achieve savings for New Zealand\u2019s health sector. These savings translate into front-line services, which is what the health care public of New Zealand are asking for\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4a2dfc737ba4185b50a038aab8f53d7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is a very long answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228126f6735ae94a0ba4957aebdb96e9f3\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Did he threaten to withhold approval of district health board annual plans for organisations that did not overtly support Health Benefits Ltd?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c043405bacf4502922fb653ae94bee6\u0022\u003EHon JO GOODHEW\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I am unable to confirm the veracity of that. However, what I do know is that when this Government was elected in 2008, procurement services were very inefficient. Twenty district health boards all having a procurement service is very inefficient. Therefore, gains will continue to be sought so that the health care public of New Zealand will be the beneficiaries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229977a792bf1544ad9b94bc1580bb1680\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that the pressure he has applied to district health boards to continue to support Health Benefits Ltd has led to \u201Ca culture of fear and distrust that is producing a range of consequences that are short-sighted at best and dangerous to patient care at worst.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0ff4659ad89416b82f3a3bf3ee08b6f\u0022\u003EHon JO GOODHEW\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I would repeat an answer that I gave yesterday, which is that this is exactly the sort of rhetoric that we would expect 12 weeks out from the election. However, what we do know is that district health boards are engaging constructively and collaboratively in trying to achieve back-office savings to deliver more money to the front line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252d16a75073b4080a3180b49675ab629\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Could the loss of confidence by district health boards in Health Benefits Ltd be because of the fact that although 400 staff throughout New Zealand look set to lose their jobs, Health Benefits Ltd has grown to have staff of 49 employees and 81 contractors, a total of 130 staff, and nearly double the policy staff at the Ministry of Health?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261c46c52478c45c889c3ebbfab47b499\u0022\u003EHon JO GOODHEW\u003C/span\u003E: What I do know and can assure the member of is that when there is significant change in the health sector\u2014or in any sector, in fact\u2014there is always some discomfiture on the part of the people who are working through change process. However, what I can tell you is that these processes are being worked through collaboratively and that the beneficiaries, in the end, will be the health care public of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225315d2990db74c5b9a298ffbdfc9a1fb\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I listened very carefully to that question from Annette King, because it concerned some numbers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a59905e4252f495a9107e7037fb4036b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can the member just make his point of order, please? What is the point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8cc618f11354785aed40f09cb2f425c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I will do it as succinctly as I can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226962aa7ee0b24fcc9d230c412a49348a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member will not do it as succinctly as he can; he will do it in accordance with the Standing Orders. What is the point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249a22ffbc0a14221b67e35be147f5c6b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I listened carefully to the Minister\u2019s answer to a question about numbers. None of that happened in that answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267484bd97e5941b09a2618cc5e3f0872\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is now questioning whether the Minister answered the question in accordance with the Standing Orders. In this case, the question was addressed in accordance with the Standing Orders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c725833d6f9412c954299a52325af2e\u0022\u003EOil and Gas Exploration and Extraction\u2014Economic Impact\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9d2de5ac0e6486d996034d56da88d19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9d2de5ac0e6486d996034d56da88d19\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: What reports has he received on likely future support for oil and gas development in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00229518903e92ec409da3ed88df6e6f487f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229518903e92ec409da3ed88df6e6f487f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E I have seen several reports this very morning about an upbeat and confident attitude to oil and gas development and its future under this Government. By way of contrast, yesterday I saw reports, within hours of each other by the same person, emphatically ruling out and then ruling in future Taranaki oil and gas activity. Then this morning I saw a report ruling out future oil and gas activity in Taranaki, despite what his leader had just said. David Carter should reign in his new candidate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226480fced87f448f88d44e6db4b196ee9\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eabe92ce3fc84a1c9a8dfd7edfe03f3b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Minister should not bring the Speaker into the debate. And, anyway, I will hear from Grant Robertson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022344024e2c5354763af3a5de5298ba01e\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Previous Speakers have ruled\u2014particularly on Government questions, and this is a Government primary question here\u2014that the Minister should be talking about things that he has responsibility for, and he is not doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af19afb953984b36904395bedf17adc7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014[Interruption] Order! The question was certainly in order and accepted, but the answer is seriously close to breaching the Speakers\u2019 rulings, and I refer the member to Speaker\u2019s ruling 154/2(a) and 154/2(b), which, in effect, say that it is not in order to put a question down that is simply a means of then commenting on any comments made by the Opposition. I invite the member to ask his supplementary question, but I will be listening very carefully to it and the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236a910c21568483786b07c780235d32e\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: What are the implications for the Taranaki region if the oil and gas sector does not continue to be supported by the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f01b7ec2882c4601870fa54a0117225d\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Flip-flops on policy do no good for business certainty, but fortunately this Government knows its policy positions and knows that oil and gas ensures that Taranaki has the highest GDP per capita in New Zealand. Average salaries from oil and gas are twice the national average, and the region has the lowest unemployment in New Zealand. We do not have renegade candidates saying\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd2998880a4c4902bf83bfe91769516b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adcb208c4d9949ea93caed090f102d81\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: What are the implications for New Zealand if oil and gas sector development is brought to a standstill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227137488e8c0a427b92170b9110cef588\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: It would be very bad. Oil and gas is New Zealand\u2019s fourth-largest commodity merchandise export earner. It employs thousands of people and brings in nearly $1 billion in royalties and taxes a year, providing for schools, hospitals, and other infrastructure. So it is very clear that we cannot have people out there, like T\u0101mati Coffey this morning, saying the sorts of things he\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e9728b02f1c458586adff885e907934\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e2c4869e8eb4192b8a606a7c7a0dc65\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. For the second time during this question, Mr Bridges has strayed well outside the Standing Orders and has defied your ruling. You have told us on this side of the House consistently that if we defy rulings, we get thrown out. He just did that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2545d6318b3482d90ca933fd3d29885\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member is very close to also coming\u2014[Interruption] Order! I listened very closely to both answers, and the member is right. Towards the end of the answer, Mr Bridges strayed into material that was not going to help the order of this House. I, on both occasions, immediately ceased the Minister\u2019s answers. But prior to that, his answer was adhering to the Standing Orders and Speakers\u2019 rulings\u2014prior to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243d1a018fcc64e53aeba6829adf88b6b\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9f7e6811f8e4210bd4a6aa27a442efe\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A fresh point of order, Grant Robertson?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7770dc5ccf24192a71ae051bd027fd0\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. You ruled after the primary answer that Mr Bridges gave that he should not stray into material for which he is not responsible, saying that it would lead to disorder in the House. He then did that again. That is in defiance of your ruling. You have ejected someone from this side of the House today for exactly the same crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3519413b03a46e081fced60b6ffc4f1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member is wrong, and I invite him, afterwards, to have a look at the Hansard. Both questions were quite in order. One was on the implications for the oil and gas industry. We listened to that, and when the Minister then strayed into something to do with an Opposition party\u2019s policy, I shut it down immediately. The second question was around implications for the New Zealand economy. Again, it was answered quite in order until the Minister strayed, and the moment he strayed, I rose to my feet and stopped that answer\u2014[Interruption] Order! I cannot continue with the points of order when the member is going to continue to talk above me. The member may well shake his head, but there is a certain decorum required in this House that when I am on my feet, members should cease interjecting, and that applies to all members in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fefc5161305b4dbe84ea754df1d6484c\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Just to be clear, can a Minister be asked for an opinion that relates to his portfolio and then go ahead and give the information to the House, indicating who actually supplied him with the information that causes him concern?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b29178034954e5fa4b1ae86463ef120\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is a matter of my ruling on the occasion, but it is not appropriate for any Minister. He may well be aware of alternative policies, which he can mention, but then to lead the answer into blatant criticism of the Opposition policy is not a responsibility of any Minister in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be018c15bb2f4651a89ed584b7898355\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ca5c7d7d1674a4a80ca929cfdd719c8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A further point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226630f604950341f0b96bfd04bc2de765\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is a new point of order. During the point of order, when my colleague was on his feet and there was meant to be complete silence otherwise people would be kicked out, the Leader of the House, Gerry Brownlee, interjected very loudly with: \u201CSit down.\u201D So I wondered whether you heard that and whether you would be taking action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b30016a9665f4ff99e01ba5d1abd92a2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I did not hear that, but\u2014[Interruption] Order! I did not hear that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EClare Curran: Selective memory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f2e49b24e1440d4ae4637dcf506fc7a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The same comment I have just made applies to Clare Curran. I did not hear it, but there have been numerous occasions when I have been on my feet and members from both sides of the House have continued to talk. I have asked for it to cease. I will continue to ask for it to cease, but in this particular case I did not hear the interjection, and I am not proposing to ask Mr Brownlee to leave the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214d4a5222749437998e7019d6e2329b9\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You said you were listening very closely. Prior to that question, did you hear the Minister refer to a candidate\u2019s sexuality? I did and I found it outrageous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9c66d8443d34a82a06d3c61ae333a91\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I did not hear such an interjection, but if the member did and he takes offence, we will take the matter from there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221be5fec3408c424894eb22a920c0e246\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister jump the gun when he announced the major commercial discovery of West Coast oil by Mosman Oil and Gas, the company, when the company said it was not even at the stage of economic assessment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228458ed6380e74ed5a98bd7e29b2bd2ec\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have not jumped the gun. I stand by everything I said\u2014unlike T\u0101mati Coffey, who today has been saying the precise opposite to that of his leader, David Cunliffe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022595bdbb92a714794910995b21384bd03\u0022\u003ERoading, Bay of Plenty\u2014Hairini Link\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022 data-id=\u00220ed93ee2e03d4b17a54edb49eb6cc9dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ed93ee2e03d4b17a54edb49eb6cc9dd\u0022\u003EBRENDAN HORAN (Independent)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Can he assure the people of Tauranga that the Hairini Link project will include four-laning from the Cameron Road intersection to the Maungatapu and Hairini roundabouts; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224d181275a94b4073af97b1cc52464b2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d181275a94b4073af97b1cc52464b2e\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E The four-laning still remains a project in the National Land Transport Programme, but it is a low priority because it currently does not meet the funding cut-off. To try to sort this out, the New Zealand Transport Agency has reached agreement that State Highway 2A will be revoked and will become a local road. This is programmed to occur in the middle of next year. When this does occur, the four-laning project will become a local road, and that project will be funded from local road activity classes and subject to standard New Zealand Transport Agency funding rules for a National Land Transport Fund contribution. The council has agreed to this position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f276d4abd8a465e9dba31532fb9f626\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain what happened to the Prime Minister\u2019s ironclad guarantee on 4 November 2008 of a four-lane State Highway running along Fifteenth Avenue, along Turret Road and the Hairini Bridge to the Hairini roundabout; and is this now a case of the National Party saying one thing in Opposition and doing another thing in Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022689b3d0d1432404a850cbb6634ae56de\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: The programme I have just outlined and the process that is going to be put in place, with agreement with the council up there, indicates the exact opposite of the position the member is putting. I am deeply disappointed for the member that his legacy will not include this project being opened by him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002243684a4d-fb40-469a-8e63-cdd1e354b387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022236f6bea6b5846df9c7ee5d3e9a8d22d\u0022\u003EBrendan Horan\u003C/span\u003E: We will see on 20 September. If the bridge remains two lanes, can the Minister commit to the city\u2019s proposal to provide a safe pedestrian cycle access walkway for pupils who attend the three large connecting schools and who are having bus services cease next year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022399e1436763a4d1082e73a23efb39bcb\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: If I may answer the first part of that question, it is that I think I am in the same camp as the speaker. I can see the future, and I bet I am right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f5b4077ca3774c8ea42c08acd5fcf4db\u0022\u003EConservation Land\u2014Commercial Logging Operations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e921a1f427404e8180e9fa8dd7599500\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e921a1f427404e8180e9fa8dd7599500\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Conservation: Have any commercial logging operations started on conservation land since the Department of Conservation was established in 1987?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8b22f0fc8b64170b092f81b5965a65c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8b22f0fc8b64170b092f81b5965a65c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, many times. Operations of commercial forest harvesting have been authorised by my department in Northland, Hauraki Gulf, central North Island, Bay of Plenty, Wellington, Marlborough, Golden Bay, Canterbury, the West Coast, Otago, and Southland. Some of these operations are exotic trees, some are areas approved for mining where the native timber is permitted to be removed, some is where the trees pose a safety risk, and others are areas after 1987 where native forest harvesting was still permitted. There is nothing wrong with commercial timber recovery off conservation land in the right circumstances. The important fact is that under this Government, the area of native forest is growing, as is the area of public conservation land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022323b76ce2a5140a8b3b3d766a9fbe5aa\u0022\u003EEugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister weakening our conservation law and overturning the 27-year national consensus that we do not log native forest on conservation land, because the department is short of funding as a result of National\u2019s $54 million cut to the Department of Conservation\u2019s budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5ef52d9965749c5ab17f65006d495b4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I am all for saving live trees, but when you have a massive storm and tens of thousands of hectares are felled I cannot get the conservation idea of leaving it there to rot. The extreme green position seems to be that the bugs and slugs that want to eat the rotten timber have rights ahead of West Coasters who might want a job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022373688b3720a459bb3f7d110c0927bcc\u0022\u003EEugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister saying that Emeritus Professor of Botany Sir Alan Mark is wrong when he says: \u201CPreserving and understanding natural processes, no matter how destructive, is a key reason why we have preserved these conservation forests.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274293d5cef9c43e5a559c942d3989bc3\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I know Sir Alan Mark well. He is at the extreme green end, and I do not share his view on this and on many other issues. That is because we are a balanced Government that wants to look after New Zealand\u2019s national treasures, but we also want a strongly growing economy, something that the Greens just do not understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fce3aec3ea8d4854ac0b72183a3c1a64\u0022\u003EEugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister rule out any further weakening of our conservation law, which for decades has prohibited logging in reserves and on conservation land, or will New Zealanders have to rally to protect our native forests from logging every time there is a big storm?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a138e79da1b2428f91edcd580687053f\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I think New Zealanders are in a very practical space, so that when a storm kills a tree we should not prohibit New Zealanders from being able to use the timber. Only the extreme Greens go out in that space that says that a dead tree has to be protected. I further point out to the member that there are numerous examples over the last 25 years where the department has been pragmatic and has allowed the wood from such events to be used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5a953c3cce74948b381658abf192177\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: What indications of support has the Minister had for the commercial recovery of timber felled in Cyclone Ita; and is he confident that he has the numbers to pass the bill tomorrow?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242923a8425bf4a4b96327695dee38f6d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I have had very strong support, particularly from the West Coast community. I have also had other support, and I thank both the United Future party and the M\u0101ori Party for recognising the unique situation on the West Coast. I have also had indications of support from New Zealand First, but my understanding is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a6a15c26afb43aeab37bc782cd9badc\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, you haven\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9a9325d7bb949e9a764a904c84218da\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes I have. Andrew Little told me yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251b1b3c0cb2a41bcb7ed6fdc7097b3cb\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Andrew Little?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f83f7e30689849c89a8648180e32bf82\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Andrew Williams\u2014I apologise. They are hard to distinguish, but I understand that the Labour caucus had a right row on Tuesday\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d01a6f972ad2429d8216d9555ef6b0f9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Minister has no responsibility for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282fc1c493ad34ef6b85b9416422d4511\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister support an amendment to his legislation that will guarantee it is West Coasters who get the job opportunities and West Coast businesses that are the beneficiaries of his piece of legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a99ab8cc462c4a2297035a07f9fd5998\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I know that protectionist arguments about nations might fly, but this narrow idea\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1f9e7217b274353a3626217159dfba4\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was very simple. Will the Minister support\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229131d9ecd70e40aaaf79cbcfe17f1851\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! What we then want is the opportunity for the Minister to answer before the member raises the point of order, but what we are going to do is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285c73d4bcd5546dcaec03752fd73d734\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: I would just like to clarify the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022897df4f2f69b4c6ab2982554f7f2e438\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am going to allow the member to re-ask his question. There was so much noise that it was actually difficult for me to hear the intricacies and the subtleties of the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022069f3bbbbfd7418f93b34b79803b43b0\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister support an amendment to his bill that will ensure that West Coast businesses and West Coast people are the beneficiaries of the jobs that he claims will come from his bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022466c97d47e8247479ca75334ab85ce90\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: It would be a nonsense for us to say that the timber can be used only on the West Coast. [Interruption] I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I cannot even hear myself think, and I am attempting to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a7d87c3e25c494abc2541419310628f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The question has been asked, and an answer is required, and it will be given without this level of barracking coming from my left.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e680c7ad32d431e81d9685afbf25ba2\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I point out that there is a sawmill in Moutere, in the Nelson area, that could well use the timber. I have had letters from furniture makers in Auckland and Christchurch who would want to use the timber. I cannot believe the Labour Party is now going to require that natural products be used only in their local area. It seems like an out for a very embarrassed member for West Coast - Tasman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022152d222de2d346b08103c6f31e29dc6a\u0022\u003EStudent Achievement\u2014Investing in Educational Success Programme\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00227632075402d64b509c4f1eca858cfce6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227632075402d64b509c4f1eca858cfce6\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour - Rimutaka)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Is she satisfied that the $359 million Investing in Educational Success Programme is the most effective way to invest that money to lift student achievement; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8ee0b5a033e49b5adfcc55b0036c82c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8ee0b5a033e49b5adfcc55b0036c82c\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Yes; evidence shows that quality teaching and school leadership have the greatest in-school influence on student achievement, as the member is on record agreeing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022435108bc057b4f0883d04a4dbf683687\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: What specific evidence does she have that removing great teachers from their own classrooms and replacing them with relievers, while they go off to work in other schools, will raise student achievement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022164b81aa5b604dbb8f741db8eb59113e\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: I can refer the member to a wealth and a body of evidence up on the Ministry of Education website. We know that professional collaboration\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d561082c2a8484c9731188a6db46138\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Name one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227389cae2f09047b2a67b8727c3ec61bf\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Professor Fullan has talked at length about the point of collaborating. Professor Stuart McNaughton has talked about how to raise achievement in difficult areas. We have evidence, in the best evidence synthesis, that says in a meta-analysis of 800,000 pieces of evidence the two biggest in-school effects are quality teaching and quality leadership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210471edcc54e43e887e980eb96fa916a\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why is she confident that the policy can even be implemented, when 69 out of 73 regional principal representatives at a recent meeting voted total no-confidence in the policy, or does she expect the applications for the new roles to materialise out of thin air?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dab5c78a949c4f15919b594a79223aad\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: The president of the New Zealand Principals Federation, in reporting on that particular meeting, said that there were 72 members there, and with a show of hands they said that they felt it was unworkable. Since then they have continued to be members of the working group\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a5cc86fa7534ef1bcec365adf0cf707\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Brilliant\u201469 out of 73.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022496fe5e8ffcc47db84eee13a4b489c91\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Hipkins, there are 52,000 people in the full-time workforce and 100,000 in the part-time workforce. We are beginning planning for negotiation with the teacher and principal unions, and we will wait for their views on that. In the meantime we have had reports of support all around the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c804e7fff4404be39887615075738260\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: In that case, will she rule out legislating for the policy\u2019s implementation in the event that teachers and principals vote against it during their bargaining; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf684f2813834813be9bcdf7fba70656\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: In response to the member for the New Zealand Educational Institute, can I say that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022954cbf78e4434c15b5d51f100036d095\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That sort of commencement of an answer will not help the order of this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246e89a9eeee048759606cd01e89a0260\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: We will not predetermine the outcome. We are looking forward to hearing back from teachers and principals, and what we are hearing is very positive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c524290f246046a2abc01f57d4f56d0a\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Has she seen the comments by John Prescott, president of the North Otago Principals Association, who has argued that the policy will do little, if anything, to raise student achievement, and he also said it was fraught with difficulties and unworkable; if so, why does she continue to press ahead when those who are supposed to do these new jobs are clearly saying they do not think they will work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4e082f8129a4ef8a9b8d0fe43611018\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have not seen those particular comments. But can I point out to the member\u2014[Interruption] Those particular comments. But can I point out to the member that there will be no compulsion for people to apply for these 250 principal positions, out of a pool of 2,500; or for the 5,000 lead teacher positions, out of a pool of about 100,000; or for the 1,000 expert teacher roles, out of that same pool.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b55e26466a142e5bd9210609302213a\u0022\u003ECourts and Tribunals\u2014Legislative Reform and Case Management\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u0022db948fddccf040d0b4d12fd22ff11177\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db948fddccf040d0b4d12fd22ff11177\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Courts: What recent announcements has he made on work to modernise and improve specialist courts and tribunals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u002212a4f0fb2bda458e97076ddc79492aac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212a4f0fb2bda458e97076ddc79492aac\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is working hard to modernise the way our courts and tribunals work. I announced yesterday a package of legislative changes to the 24 tribunals run by the Ministry of Justice. These reforms will update and standardise tribunal processes and powers, such as practice notes, suppression of sensitive information, and publication of decisions. These changes will give tribunals the tools they need to work faster and more transparently, and address weaknesses or loopholes in their current processes. These changes will be included in a bill I intend to introduce to Parliament later this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b67ef301b95c4bd7bfa5343eac90f6f1\u0022\u003EJoanne Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: How will these changes address delays in dealing with appeals against ACC decisions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c42b170ef7c41329ed22da7e424cb9d\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: ACC appeals are handled by a specialist District Court registry and a tribunal, depending on where the case stems from. Both of these bodies face significant delays, with cases averaging over 695 days for one and over 1,100 for the other. To wait 2 to 3 years for a decision on an ACC appeal is simply not acceptable, and that is why these reforms replace both appeal avenues with a new specialist tribunal. This tribunal will apply the same substantive law as existing bodies, but will have dedicated members and improved processes and powers. The new tribunal will aim to decide cases within 250 days\u2014an improvement of around 60 percent for most types of ACC appeals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212eb241d495a43c585d306f4f72b296d\u0022\u003EJoanne Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: What progress are other specialist courts and tribunals making towards reducing the time it takes for court cases to be dealt with?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022680b867e4a1d4a69a03502ba0a22bd1a\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: Like all our courts, specialist courts and tribunals are working towards improving the speed they deal with cases, measured by the average age of active cases in the system\u2014by 20 percent this year on the April 2013 baseline. Collectively, tribunals have already achieved a 16 percent reduction in the average age of active cases, well on track to their 20 percent target. In the specialist courts since last April, the coroners have cut 54 days off the average age of cases, the Employment Court has cut 85 days, the Environment Court has cut 64 days, and the M\u0101ori Land Court has cut 69 days. All are either at, or well on their way to, their end-of-year goals. These results are a real credit to the court staff and the judicial officers in our specialist courts and tribunals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002284ac17c56ba141c1a624681776d1b80f\u0022\u003EClimate Change Policy\u2014Government Position\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u0022e65d1cc85574481f89250ea0b2abfe44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e65d1cc85574481f89250ea0b2abfe44\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Climate Change Issues: Does he agree with reported moves by Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott and Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper to build an alliance with like-minded countries to dismantle carbon pricing initiatives and undermine recent efforts by United States President, Barack Obama, to reduce greenhouse gas emissions; and if not, will he rule out his Government joining such an alliance at any point in the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00229c7affd2ccb74b018dc0face651a75f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c7affd2ccb74b018dc0face651a75f5\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Associate Minister for Climate Change Issues)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Climate Change Issues: I am aware of conflicting media reports on the existence of such a proposal, but the Government has seen nothing to suggest that such an alliance has been proposed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e660564e821a4c5291de1da54813eef5\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Will his Government lobby his Australian and Canadian counterparts and encourage them to address climate change with urgency, given that the impacts of climate change are already being felt in our own backyard by our Pacific Island neighbours, who have consistently called on developed countries, including New Zealand, to do a lot more domestically to reduce emissions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022167227c5926746dfb2e7e053d7699474\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: The member misses the point. There is a conflict in the media reports as to what is actually going on here. It is a little like what we saw from the Labour Party this morning where Tamati Coffey is still continuing to insist\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef15aa48b57944faa539eef3eb92d296\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I was expecting somebody to acknowledge that the question was not even addressed, in which case I would have invited the member to ask it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2311857ad5849a0a961b93495ea89ce\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: If President Obama can make significant progress on climate change despite huge resistance from Congress, why has his Government utterly failed to do the same here, given that moves to ensure an effective price on carbon and to stop price gouging by energy companies, thereby reducing costs to businesses and households, would attract overwhelming support in this Parliament?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b67f108d6db4aac8205e21ab380fbcb\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: The member is entirely wrong. New Zealand is respected internationally for its climate change efforts. Indeed, last week New Zealand was praised by Barack Obama as a key ally on climate change. We can get our stories straight\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245ab8fbad88e4f2d8c0d6644c4d2d328\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bfff53b001d46949268e318d33117ff\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with one of our Pacific Island neighbours, the Marshall Islands Vice-President Tony de Brum, who at last year\u2019s Pacific Islands Forum said that New Zealand should be doing far more than we are currently doing, and that our 5 percent reduction target is \u201Ca joke\u201D; if not, what action will he take to meet John Key\u2019s pledge, signed at that forum, that New Zealand would do more domestically to address climate change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a4e19434c2a477491358f72d7919564\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: We do our fair share. We are the only country outside the European Union to have an emissions trading scheme. We are the only one that is comprehensive with our emissions trading scheme, including all gases. We show real leadership internationally, where we have got a comparative advantage, and domestically, of course, we also do a lot. I think of the things that I am doing as the Minister of Energy and Resources with the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority in our wider energy emissions profile. There is a lot that is going on. The member maybe should read some more of my press releases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002213d24a6d09a642688854e86ed6736591\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002296b42c5c41054128bad9bb3af2c635a4\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a57ca34d256942ce93621797a6adf4eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a57ca34d256942ce93621797a6adf4eb\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. In an effort to contain the spiralling downward credibility of its leader, David Cunliffe, the Labour Party today released a fiscal plan. I have to say I was a bit disappointed. It looked a lot like the 1996 one, which looked a lot like the 2002 one, which looked a lot like the 2008 one. They can all be summed up in three simple words: tax and spend. On the way into the House I was asked what I thought about it, so I said that: \u201CYep, nothing new\u2014tax and spend. That\u2019s what you\u2019d expect.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EActually, the truth is that what I think about it does not matter; what matters is what the Greens think about it. What matters is what the \u201CGerman-M\u0101ori Billionaire Poverty Party\u201D thinks about it. Why does that matter? Because there is no real, plausible, alternative Government where the Labour Party has much more than half of a Cabinet. So this plan does not represent what an alternative Government would do. For instance, it leaves out the carbon tax. That is not in there. That is not referred to. So what the Greens think about this plan matters. It leaves out free tertiary education, which apparently is the top priority for the \u201CBillionaire Poverty Party\u201D. It leaves out free tertiary education. What the Greens think matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWe have only had to see the spin that the Labour Party got into over M\u0101ui\u2019s dolphins in the last 24 hours to see that Labour is the tail on a very green dog. The leader of the Labour Party had three positions on oil and gas exploration\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E I can sum them up in one sentence that has been used before\u2014it is not original\u2014\u201CI was against it before I was for it, before I took a balanced position.\u201D Or was it the other way round: \u201CI took a balanced position before I was against it, and then I was for it, and then I couldn\u2019t remember, so I sent the media to ask Tamati Coffey.\u201D, who is clearly the new\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022065739fd93ec49f481609085afc650c2\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a280dc014327435883c9b34e0a8f60bb\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he is effective. He has been on TV more than the rest of the Labour Party put together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221653c683d11f4234915bac453c91201c\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s been consistent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022436e408e1ea44cc19def009e64775c8f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: He has been consistent. He sounds authoritative. He has probably done more background homework than the leader of the Labour Party has done on the oil and gas industry\u2014that is what a poor effort the leader has made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWhatever anyone thinks of Labour\u2019s finely honed fiscal plan\u2014as I am sure its architect, Mr Parker, thinks it is\u2014does not matter, because it is not the plan for an alternative Government. Nothing like it. So I am looking forward to hearing the Greens\u2019 version of it. Their questions will be \u201CAre the higher taxes punitive enough on the people we do not like?\u201D, \u201CIs the spending wasteful enough to make it worth it, or should there be more?\u201D, and \u201CHow can we hide the impact of a $25 carbon tax from all of New Zealand\u2019s households, who will have to pay one big new tax on top of Labour\u2019s list?\u201D. Then, of course, we will be waiting while the\u2014oh, yes, the \u201CInternet Billionaire German-M\u0101ori Party\u201D is not here today, so it will not be able to tell us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2717b5383564b2aa2f1aeb8be2e22cf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] No, the member still has a minute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288e38791f37c4eda9619256f77b5457d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I thought you had had enough. This is the truth of the debate over the next 3 months: it is not about what is in Labour\u2019s plans; it is about what the plans of the multi-headed hydra of the Opposition are. In no way does the Labour Party document that was put out today reflect the potential for more damage, more spending, higher taxes, and more disregard for the livelihoods, incentives, and aspirations of New Zealand. The real shame of this document is just how out of step it is on its own merits with a New Zealand that is increasingly forward-looking\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5322471c32b49bcbc2fa07773351bfb\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Positive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022060190fc07934eedab7fe12116890273\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and positive, that understands incentives for work and rewards for effort, and that is flexible, innovative, and resilient. On top of that, the Labour Party is planning to dump its view of big government and take more of your money, because it apparently knows how to spend it better. We know that the Greens, of course, will do that with speed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022364177b0b2024d6ca0b67424b104c0b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022364177b0b2024d6ca0b67424b104c0b9\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Party vote Green on 20 September\u2014party vote Green. The world has changed and we need new ideas and modern thinking to solve the problems and to seize the new opportunities. Old parties leave our economy, our planet, and our kids in a worse situation than ever before. Years of being hands-off has proven to be a serious let-down for our kids. The Green Party is ready to step up and kick off a new approach\u2014an approach that invests in our people and in our planet. We love New Zealand. It is time for a new deal under which all our people and the whole of our planet will prosper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThree more years of National puts our kids and our environment at risk. I am asking New Zealanders to give their party vote to the Greens and to join us in removing the National Party risk from this Parliament. We need a Government that looks after every New Zealand child. When one in four New Zealand children lives in poverty, something is seriously wrong. National does not even know about those children and it cannot even see those children, let alone plan to build a fairer society for those children. National prioritises oil companies over our environment. Our beaches, the M\u0101ui\u2019s dolphins, and the forest parks are all at risk from National\u2019s oil agenda. We want to protect our precious places for all of us to enjoy and for our children and their children. National has run out of ideas on the issues that matter. It does not want us to follow the rest of the world on climate change. It wants us to follow the rest of the world as a tail rather than be the leaders on climate change that we know New Zealanders are. National is out of touch with the cost of living, and we see that demonstrated in this House every day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe Green Party has never been more ready to deliver a better future for every New Zealander. We will invest in our children\u2019s future to change their lives. We will deliver real support to our kids, end child poverty, and bring back hope for young New Zealanders. Already we have announced free doctors visits for all children from 0 to 18, community services in schools, dedicated nurses in schools, a national school lunch fund, and removing discrimination from Working for Families that leaves out the very poorest kids. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EOur economic opportunities are green. We will steer our economy towards smart Green innovation that will deliver more and better jobs while protecting our environment. Our climate tax cut that puts a price on carbon will reduce our greenhouse gas emissions and deliver a tax cut to all New Zealand families and businesses, while our Green Investment Bank makes capital available to new sustainable industries to innovate in existing industries and to develop new well-paid and sustainable jobs and the opportunities of a 21st century global economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EOur environment is at the heart of our identity. We will step in to protect the environment and the precious places and species that make New Zealand the best place in the world to live. Every river should be clean enough for our children to swim in. It is their birthright to have the basics of clean water. We will fight to protect conservation land and our marine environment from the dirty mining industries that National puts ahead of everyone else. It puts our M\u0101ui\u2019s dolphins, our communities, our critically endangered species, and our forests at such risk. I am asking New Zealanders to give their party vote to the Green Party at this election to deliver to the country the Government that they deserve: a Government that puts our children and our environment at the forefront of every decision that we make and that puts children and our planet at the heart of New Zealand politics. Party vote Green on 20 September. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u00227ebc034b3dc942159b14869fbeaa0b61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ebc034b3dc942159b14869fbeaa0b61\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (Minister for Food Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I was out door-knocking at the weekend, as I have been for the last 3 years, and what I want to tell you is I have seen a change. When I was walking up the streets, I really expected to hear people say they were voting for different political parties, but what we heard was, yes, they were voting for National, and there were a few people who were voting for the Greens, but people were not declaring for Labour. I have been door-knocking for a number of years now, and it actually dawned on me when that Labour Party list came out that when you have nearly a quarter of candidates in the Labour Party not willing to associate themselves with that party, something is seriously wrong. We have a very clear choice at this election. We can vote for a party where there is not a whole lot of confidence in its leader, where you do not have a united team, where you have policies done on the hoof, and where you have flip-flops all over the place. But if you compare that with a party that has a leader, the Prime Minister, who has the extraordinary confidence of New Zealand and who has delivered over a very difficult period, there is only one choice at this election, and it is party vote National. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWhat people are saying to me is that it is really clear: all of the rhetoric that comes from the left-wing parties says we do not care. Well, I am going to run through some of the reasons and some of the policies that show that our party has done more for our most disadvantaged than any of those Opposition members did in their time in Government. Under our Government there have been six successive increases in the education spend\u2014$857 million in the last Budget. Under our Government there have been six successive increases in our health spend. We have programmes: $20 million for rheumatic fever, and a second cochlear implant for some of our most disadvantaged. We have got breakfast in schools. In terms of early childhood education, there is another $155 million, which is particularly for some of those children who may never have had access in terms of their families before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EIn this Budget there is $284 million to help build more modern, better schools. In terms of our record with young people, we have incredible results: almost 25,000 young people were placed in employment and training under Youth Opportunities. There are 13,000 jobs that were created under the 90-day trial period. We have invested $148 million in wraparound services for youth. So to those members opposite who continue to claim the rhetoric they always have done that we do not have a strong social conscience, they are wrong. The reason that our party is polling at over 50 percent is not only that we are a standout economy in terms of bringing our country into surplus in one of the most difficult fiscal times ever\u2014particularly, we believe we had the largest hit of any developed nation in the world in terms of the Canterbury earthquakes. You combine all of that and you see us in surplus, but then you see the extraordinary social investment we have made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe Deputy Prime Minister made the point that just because other parties are claiming they are going to spend more money, that does not mean they are going to do the best for New Zealanders. Under our Government there are more immunisations, more children have got National Certificate of Educational Achievement level 2, and more M\u0101ori and Pacific students than ever are getting those results. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ESo what we are really clear about is that under our Government, with less money, we have done more. We have helped some of our most disadvantaged New Zealanders, we have got our economy and our books in order, and we also have a united team and a Prime Minister whom we believe in. That is the difference at this election. Why would you vote Labour if a quarter of its caucus members will not even put themselves on the Labour Party list? We have a leader we believe in. We have delivered for New Zealand. We have the best policies to deliver for another 3 years. Party vote National.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00227a838d7e64804cd49698ea0d052128e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a838d7e64804cd49698ea0d052128e4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Why you would vote for Labour is if you want a better country. That is what we stand for. Today we released our alternative budget. We are not going to be diverted by the cynicism of our political opponents or the exaggerated and incorrect attacks by people who, frankly, have been unbalanced and unfair in their criticisms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI have not got time to go into that today. I am going to be focusing on the positive agenda that the Labour Party will deliver if we are elected, and, as today\u2019s announcements show, in our alternative budget everything is paid for, plus we are in surplus. We do collect additional revenue from the capital gains tax, which is largely a tax on those people who are the wealthiest in society. In fact, the top 5 percent of asset holders pay the vast majority of any capital gains tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe apply the additional revenue we collect to things that make the economy stronger, the cost of living lower, and people\u2019s lives better. We give taxes back to business through a research and development tax credit and through accelerated depreciation. We give tax credits to all of the other people who come into a universal KiwiSaver and we give them their Kick-start payment. We provide some additional money to low-income families through the Best Start package because we know it is disgraceful that in this country we have got rising rates of child poverty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe do something serious about housing. Our tax pushes that way with our capital gains tax. Our KiwiBuild policy is funded through money the Crown borrows initially to build the houses that are onsold to New Zealanders, who pay the money back to the Government. This is all shown in this budget. There is a small tax increase for the highest income earners in New Zealand. It applies to the 2 percent of New Zealanders who earn more than $150,000 per annum. Their tax rate goes up to 36c in the dollar, which is a far lower rate than applies, for example, in Australia. Our tax system becomes fairer and funds other services that we need. We increase the trustee tax rate to 36c as well, so that we stop trusts being used as tax-avoidance vehicles. We crack down on multinational tax avoidance. All of this is spelt out in this document, which shows that everything is paid for, plus we are in surplus. Indeed, our surplus is slightly larger than that which the Government projected in its Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe restart contributions to the Cullen fund because we believe in a sustainable superannuation scheme. That is why we report our debt figures as net debt, including the Cullen fund. Otherwise, that is misrepresented by the Government. By the end of 6 years we repay net debt down to 3 percent of GDP\u2014i.e., we pay off all of the debt that National has clocked up over the last 6 years. We know how to do that because we ran nine surpluses in a row when we were last in Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EOur policies upgrade the economy. We upgrade the economy towards better-paid jobs, more secure jobs, career paths and hope for our young people, and a fairer distribution of income and, therefore, less inequality in our country. Currently, we have got the lowest rate of homeownership in 50 years, and homeownership rates are still dropping. We have had a huge increase in the sale of luxury cars. We have got increasing rates of child poverty. We have got increasing gaps between incomes in wealthy suburbs and poorer suburbs in Auckland. And yet the Prime Minister denies that we have got rising inequality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EOur fiscal plan is responsible. We do balance the budget while we invest in a future for New Zealand that is more prosperous and more fair. The revenues that we garner more than cover our modest increases in expenditure. A lot of those increases in expenditure are themselves tax cuts in other parts of the economy. I am sure that our plan is going to go down well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00224a0cbc07accf48579b3c2762cea5eb34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a0cbc07accf48579b3c2762cea5eb34\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E There is nothing quite like an election date coming close to let us think about some of the statements that have been made over time about the wonderful system of MMP that we have. I would like to quote David Lange, who said that it was \u201Cthe flea on the tail of the dog wagging the dog.\u201D To quote another very well-regarded member of Parliament the Hon Steven Joyce, he said to me and a few of us earlier on that if the answer is Labour, the Greens, and New Zealand First\u2014and Andrew Little sitting over there\u2014and Hone Harawira, Kim Dotcom, Laila Harr\u00E9, and Pam Corkery, then let us have a look for another question. It is bloody\u2014it is absolutely frightening to think what a piece of unparliamentary language dropped into a general debate could possibly mean for the order of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EBut when we think about Labour and its releases today, you have got to wonder just how far it would want to go. What Labour members have released today in their fiscal policy is one thing, but it is completely different from what they were saying just a couple of years ago, and it will be completely different from what they say down the track if the New Zealand public were stupid enough\u2014thank goodness they are not\u2014to invite them into Government. Who knows where that motley crew would end up, bearing in mind the policy that they have announced today? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EOne of the things I find really interesting is that a couple of years ago when Labour was in Government it decided that you were rich if you earned over $60,000 a year and so it taxed you at 39c in the dollar\u201439c in the dollar because you were rich if you earned over $60,000 a year. Then Labour changed its mind, and it said you were rich if you earned over $150,000 a year. This is what Labour decided in Opposition. If you earned over $150,000 a year, you were rich, and so Labour would tax you at 39c in the dollar. But now Labour has decided that you are rich if you earn over $150,000 but will tax you at only 36c in the dollar. The interesting thing is that Labour members always accuse people on this side of the House of looking after their rich mates. Well, we have found recently they have got a few rich mates of their own that they have been looking after. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EUnder this National Government, which is so intent on looking after its rich mates, we know that the top 2 percent of taxpayers in New Zealand pay 22 percent of all personal tax in this country. Well, if that is a way of looking after your rich mates, I am sure they are not all that happy about it. What we also find out is that the top 12 percent of households in this country pay 76 percent of all net income tax, before you even account for New Zealand superannuation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260716bb435af419d8728f04b02764690\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: What about GST? Tell us about GST.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022742d062e3f194c37b0b144ab56fd8eaf\u0022\u003EHon CHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: What we do know from Mr Parker, and he will agree, is that the poorest people in this country pay no net tax because they get Government subsidies for all the GST they pay and PAYE. But having been accused of always being so mean on this side of the House\u2014Labour and the Greens and the rest of their motley crew being the only ones who care\u2014I would like to know why the Labour-Greens Government did not insulate 280,000 homes when it was in Government. Why did it stop at 8,000 homes? Why did it not raise health care for under-13-year-olds to 24/7? Why did it stop at 6-year-olds? Why did it not spend $43 million on mental and physical health assessments for kids coming into State care? Labour and the Greens did not do that, but they are the only ones who care! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EWhy did they not provide microfinancing options for beneficiaries so that they would not have to run off to loan sharks? They did not bother doing that either, but they are the only ones who really care! Why did they not set targets for child achievement in schools? They did not. They never set a target that they could be held to account for. Why did they not set targets for recidivism for people leaving penal institutions? They did not bother about that. Why did they not set a target for lower crime? The reason is that they did not care enough or they never believed for a moment that they would achieve it. What we found when we came into Government was a skyrocketing prison population and an estimate that it would carry on growing. They never once set a target to achieve any social indicator. The only target we know they set was for more women on their side of the House, and it is going to shaft them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002265acd701310641edb52f23553fb7c26c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265acd701310641edb52f23553fb7c26c\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Well, we have an interesting day in the House today, because David Parker has put a document on the table. There are our numbers. There is our plan. It is out there 3 months before the election. It is out for scrutiny. The media, the analysts, and everybody will pore over it, but the plan is out there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI have got to say that Bill English has in this Budget projected a $500 million surplus, but we know that that surplus, of course, is balanced against and taken from $500 million out of repair costs in Christchurch. But here is a fact for Bill English: Bill English has never actually achieved a surplus. He has projected one, he has targeted one, he has promised one, but he has never actually delivered one, compared with the Government that David Parker and I were part of, which did not deliver one or two or three surpluses but delivered surpluses every year for the 9 years that it was in Government\u2014every year for 9 years. [Interruption] Do not worry, Tau; there will be a job at the Porirua pub where you can go back to being a bouncer or something akin to your skill base. But for 9 years\u2014for 9 years, every year\u2014the Labour Government delivered a surplus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo here is the plan: I say, as David Parker has said, show us the dough. Show us the money. There is our plan\u2014it is out there; open for delivery, for scrutiny\u2014and it stands. It stands well because it is a quality document. And what will it do? Well, as David Parker said, we will actually reduce debt. We will actually reduce and pay for the debt that this Government built up over its last 6 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EChester Borrows, of course, talked about who gets what and who pays the majority of tax. But poor old Chester did not get the abacus out, did not add three letters in\u2014GST\u2014when he made his spurious calculation. That is the credibility of that economic genius over there. Part of the tax base, Chester, is derived from a thing called GST, which your Government put up after it lied to the people of New Zealand and said that it would not. That is a promise that the Government made, and it lied to the people of New Zealand because it broke that promise. Now Mr Borrows, in his shonky figures, forgets a big chunk of the tax base, and he cannot add it into his calculations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EAs Mr Parker has said, everything is paid for in this document. Every line item is paid for in this document, plus we achieve a surplus, which, in the first year of our Government, will be the 10th we achieve, added, of course, to the other nine. It will be No. 10. At the same time, this document puts in place a series of programmes around employment, around health, and around education, that back the battlers in this country\u2014the good entrepreneurs, the people who are trying to get ahead, the people who are struggling out there. They need a decent health system, not the shonky stuff, of course, that the Minister of Health has been exposed by today and yesterday around Health Benefits Ltd\u2014the Ponzi scheme that Ms King outlined. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EPeople want a decent health system. They want the ability to be trained. We have a policy for that, the dole for apprenticeships, and if it had been implemented 3\u00BD years ago, we would have 40,000 or 50,000 young people who would be trade trained, swinging hammers in Canterbury and around the country, contributing to our rebuild, off the dole, paying tax\u2014including GST, Chester, in case you have forgotten\u2014and actually contributing to our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe do not know from this mob over there whether, when we get into Government, anything will be left after the big tax cut for the big end of town and whether David Parker as Minister of Finance will be left with economic archaeology\u2014an industrial graveyard\u2014in terms of manufacturing. They talked about who they said they backed, but, of course, they did not tell you and they did not allude to whom they have run into the ground. If you take dairy production away\u2014which is another sleight of hand by Steven Joyce\u2014it is the manufacturing base, which, in large part, provides a heck of a lot of jobs in this country\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022420a554b23d54e5194e5fa1081b28cd7\u0022\u003EHon Chester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: How much are you going to tax them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203c2352f734345f1acdce7e5f1c866f0\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that Mr Borrows and his ilk have left and driven into the ground. National does not have a decent monetary policy. Its only monetary policy, of course, is to say: \u201CDo nothing. Everything is fine.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b17fdb62f7074931a055c93aa34c917f\u0022\u003EHon Chester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Why isn\u2019t that in your fiscal plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245294b9bfccd4dd7b3c2723384261598\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I invite Mr Borrows to go back to his constituency in Wanganui and maybe ask some manufacturing exporters. We have a plan. It is fully costed. It is all paid for. We will achieve our 10th surplus. We will back our manufacturers and exporters. We will give those on the bottom of the heap a fair go, which they have not had for 6 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u002230fabfe2ed964daba32bc45a44ed3682\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230fabfe2ed964daba32bc45a44ed3682\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Anybody listening to the contribution of the previous member, Clayton Cosgrove, on television or the radio will have done two things. The first thing is they will have turned the volume down, and the second thing is they will have quite rightly concluded that the good folk of Waimakariri made a very sound decision at the last election when they decided that they no longer wanted Mr Cosgrove as their member of Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIt is a great privilege for me to represent the fine folk of Hamilton West in this House and to have served them in that capacity since November 2008. I am now campaigning proudly for a further mandate. I am hoping to be only the third member for Hamilton West since the seat was created in 1969 to secure a third term. It has the reputation, of course, of being the great bell-wether electorate of New Zealand. Therefore, I suggest to people that we look carefully at what is happening in Hamilton West when we decide whether we are on the right or the wrong track. The people of Hamilton West tell me not only that we are on the right track but that they appreciate that we are getting the job done, that we are focusing on the things that matter to New Zealand, and that they want to see a continuation of the John Key - led administration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders know that John Key and his team have governed New Zealand through the most challenging conditions that any Government of this country has faced since the Great Depression of the 1930s. The impact of the global financial crisis has been immense. One needs only to look at North America and South America or the countries in Europe and in most other parts of the globe to understand just how devastating the impact of the global financial crisis has been in so many countries. New Zealanders have had it tough through the recession as well. They know, in particular, that the reckless previous Labour-led administration spent like drunken sailors at a time when it failed to take any significant measures to grow the economy and, therefore, left this country deeply vulnerable when the good times ended and the global financial crisis hit. That is why they are so grateful for the leadership of John Key, Bill English, and their excellent Cabinet team. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders are scared witless at the prospect of a weak, Labour-led administration, with a Prime Minister whom even his own colleagues do not respect, and of being dependent on a volatile cocktail of extreme Greens, who want to stop everything in their tracks and who oppose every possible measure for growth, development, and prosperity. A Labour-led administration would then be propped up by the \u201CBillionaire Poverty Party\u201D\u2014goodness knows where it would take things and what the price of its support would be\u2014and possibly two or three other combinations. What an appalling combination that would be for a Government of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIt is very important to get the economy right, because, ultimately, an economy is all about people. It is about the impact of economic decisions on health, law and order, education, and all those important areas where we are working to deliver public services of a first-class standard\u2014and we are. Look at the record over the last 6 years, where, with less money to spend, those people out on the front line in our public services have lifted their production, lifted their delivery of services, reduced waiting lists in our hospitals, boosted elective surgery, raised educational achievement, and reduced crime right across the board. Things are looking good. Why would you put that at risk? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that is getting the job done, and in Hamilton West that is the message I get from my constituents. I believe quite firmly that they know they must stay the course that we are on. The evidence has been out just in the last few days when we have seen 3.8 percent growth in GDP, putting us right up there in the top bracket, above most of our trading partners. In the eurozone it is 0.9 percent. Here in New Zealand it is 3.8 percent. So when we hear our opponents talking about increasing inequality or all the rest of it, they need to get beyond the rhetoric and look at the figures, because the figures show that income inequality is not increasing; it has flat-lined. In fact, those people at the top end of the tax bracket have had it a little tougher in respect of having to pay more of the tax. Most of my constituents are now paying only 17.5 cents in the dollar on income tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that is getting it right and delivering for New Zealanders. It deserves to be re-elected, and I am proud to campaign for that end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u00220505896f7ab143e3b1b0be732c67b2a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220505896f7ab143e3b1b0be732c67b2a3\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. In the next\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022654d43c409c84757830523284f7ace82\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I have called Tracey Martin. Your time starts again. [Interruption] Order! If the members want to have that conversation, then they can leave the Chamber. Tracey Martin\u2014starting now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d90de41549204f74b92f5765bb91b7a2\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealanders, I would suggest you take note of the two major parties that you have just heard trying to out-policy each other. Within the next few weeks, New Zealand First will have up on its website its refreshed 2014 manifesto. The New Zealand public will be able to go and see that manifesto and see why New Zealand First lives up to its name and actually puts New Zealanders first. Rather than trying to compete for a political arena, we concentrate on putting the people of our country first in every decision we make. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWith regard to the education policy that will actually come up on that website, I am proud to have participated strongly in the writing of that education policy and to have consulted front-line people in education. We have not decided to pick an academic expert who suits us, similar to what this current Government has done. We have gone and spoken to the parents and the teachers, and had the student voice inside the development of our policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is going to put the aspiration back into education. For example, take one little aspiration, which this Government continues to articulate but cannot live up to, that of five out of five students being successful. This Government cannot get even five out of five charter schools successful. This Government, forced into a position by one of its three other coalition partners, has actually created an environment where it has handed over $8.6 million worth of taxpayers\u2019 money in a single budgetary year\u2014in a single budgetary year\u2014and it cannot get even five out of five schools right. I am asking you, the parents of New Zealand: how many teacher aide hours would that actually pay for, do you think, for your Asperger\u2019s child, for your autistic child, or for your child with any other special needs? How many one-day school places for gifted and talented children do you think that would have provided? The fact is that this Government lost its aspiration for your gifted and talented children by removing the \u201Cwell above\u201D achievement category of its flawed national standards. It decided that just having the \u201Cabove\u201D category is fine. The Government has no aspiration for New Zealand\u2019s children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EBut let us go back to the fact that it cannot even get five out of five special schools right\u2014schools funded for the ACT Party; the legacy of a dying party. Let us have a look at Te Kura Hourua ki Whangaruru. On 29 May the Minister of Education stood up and said that these schools would be more transparent and more accountable and that the contracts would hold them to account on assisting those students or they would be closed\u2014or they would be closed. That was in May. On 17 April the business director of Te Kura Hourua ki Whangaruru resigned. The Ministry of Education put in a supervising facilitator because the place was falling apart, and the Government knew it was going to. Previously, prior to it even being said that it would become a charter school, the authorisation board\u2014headed by, again, an ex - ACT Party president, and with John Morris on it, no less\u2014recommended that this particular applicant go forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThe ministry tried to advise the Minister yet again that this would be a mistake. The ministry said that the applicant had a long way to go to arrange suitable facilities, finalise the academic curriculum, and find suitable staff. So the ministry identified all the key risks. We also have the fact, disclosed under an Official Information Act request, that half the school was not built, as was pointed out by New Zealand First in December 2013. The school shifted its focus from the toilets, which were not going to be ready, to then decide that it would not have a kitchen ready, so the children could not continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThe other thing that was really interesting about this Government was that it told the public of New Zealand that these schools would have an open-door policy\u2014that any child could bowl up to a charter school and access these schools. Have a look at Te Kura Hourua ki Whangaruru\u2019s enrolment priorities. You have to be the child of a staff member first, you have to be Ng\u0101ti Wai second\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213b51eafa6ce453794c730e78851cdc9\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Leave them alone. Why don\u2019t you leave them alone, you bully?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022affeb3f7806d46dd8cc480a8c14ab393\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Because, Mr Henare, those children have been let down by your Government. These were among the most vulnerable children\u2014seven of them had to be removed to be protected from other students\u2014and your Government does not care. Your Government, as shown in documents, has hidden it, and kept a lid on it. As the Ministry of Education employee and Official Information Act documents have quite clearly pointed out, the Government has said it will not tell the public; it has kept the lid on it for as long as it can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b38b2615c6e24ca0b55205b72d7d9a96\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Keep your nose out of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299a5e8f2d5b7479fb99273f963f437cb\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Henare and this Government do not care for vulnerable children. This was spin, and New Zealand needs to see through it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u00221c6ed53afa7c42a6acabc1e273909509\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c6ed53afa7c42a6acabc1e273909509\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E That was a stunning contribution by Tracey Martin, I have to say. I honestly believe that people have been making up their minds about this coming election\u2014which I think will probably be the most significant election in a generation, for a number of reasons\u2014over the last year or so. There might be a few votes here or there as we get closer to the election and the noise increases, but, actually, I think people having been sitting back, living their lives, and what it will come down to for them is the direction that the country is heading in. I think it is as simple as that. Does the voter, as a New Zealander, feel as though the country is heading in the wrong direction or in the right direction? If people believe it is heading in the right direction\u2014and we know from recent articles in the New Zealand Herald and a number of other media commentaries that 60 to 75 percent of the country believe the country is heading in the right direction\u2014the next question then becomes whether the voter has trust and confidence that that direction can be maintained. I actually think that we can stand here and bluster and carry on as we do in this House, but out there in the real world, for the people whom we are here to serve, it boils down to those two things. Is the country heading in the right direction and can they trust the leadership to continue that direction? On both those counts, I know why the Opposition is worried, and it is because on both those counts, the voters believe that the National-led Government is the answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThen we look at the Labour Party today. As Opposition parties will do, it has tried to launch an alternative. It has decided all of a sudden that it has got this new vision of what will resonate with the New Zealand public, and it is not all about the beltway. Actually, that seldom resonates with people out there in the real world, in my view. Labour has now suddenly decided that it has got an alternative financial policy position that it will take that will lead to the promised land. I have a couple of issues with that. One is the fact that it is a sort of Back to the Future tax and spend approach. Nothing Labour has been doing is working so its approach is \u201CLet\u2019s go back to what did work and give that a go.\u201D What we do know is that when that was last working for Labour, during the 9 years of the last Labour Government, it was a fair-weather sailing situation. The Labour Party is a party that knows how to sail well in fair weather. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThe reality is, though, that what this country has faced and what political leaders, businesses, and families have faced in this country over the last 5 or so years has been very, very stormy weather\u2014unprecedented. It was the perfect storm, if you actually look at it in that sense. So, in many respects, the reason that what the Labour Party is saying is not resonating with New Zealanders\u2014\u201CWe returned nine surpluses!\u201D\u2014is because that is all well and good when it is fair-weather sailing, but when the storm hits, I would put it to you that New Zealanders actually understand that that is not good enough. And why is that? It is because for New Zealanders, Government is not the answer. The Government simply resources the community to go about doing its best to create the opportunities and to create the jobs through the right economic conditions and the right policy direction. We just enable; we do not provide the answers. That is the problem. The Labour Party has this crisis of thinking that because it delivered nine surpluses during the fair-weather years, New Zealanders will think that it can do it now. They actually do not. By now, they have been telling us that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EI think the issue that the Labour Party has is an identity crisis. New Zealanders might not be completely politically engaged with what the Grant Robertsons of this world believe is important, but they are quite savvy; they get a sense of it. The sense they have is that for Labour to be able to form a Government, it has got to cobble together and bolt on a whole lot of pieces that actually do not make sense in themselves. They do not actually make sense. They do not make a complete picture. One of the challenges that the Labour Party has in its identity crisis is the Green Party. The Green Party is the political equivalent to that kind of weird uncle who always turns up at Christmas time and makes everyone feel uncomfortable because he is a bit freaky and he does not quite fit in this place. That is the identity crisis here, because the public realises that for the Labour Party to be able to in Government, it has got to bring the weird uncle into the equation, but New Zealanders do not actually want the weird uncle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003ESo what I see is that there are two things on which New Zealanders will determine this election, and I believe they have already done it. Those are: are we heading in the right direction, and can National continue in that direction? And we can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u002235d753ea9bb54ea791c8f552d90fc3a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235d753ea9bb54ea791c8f552d90fc3a4\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E A Labour Government will transform the New Zealand economy into a higher-value and higher-income economy through higher investment, innovation, and industry development. But it will do more than that\u2014it will actually transform our nation into a tech-savvy nation. But in order to do that, it has to tackle the technology issues that exist within our own public sector. It might interest members on the other side to hear that Government agencies are significant users of information and communications technology products and services. They are a direct employer of skilled workers in information and communications technology, and a customer of local product markets. Government purchasing in New Zealand makes up almost 15 percent of GDP\u201415 percent of GDP. That is significant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIt is the Labour Party\u2019s view that there are many huge, costly IT projects inside the Government. They often go badly and it results in vast sums of money going offshore. Departments are secretive about their technology products and they do not share them, even with other departments. Historically, the willingness of Governments to adopt proprietary software has enabled various vendor monopolies within Government IT, and there are significant issues emerging around this that are impacting on our Government and the way that we operate, but it is also being seen across the world, particularly with the countries with which we do a lot of business. Citizens, businesses, and delivery partners such as charities and voluntary groups need to be able to interact with Government officials, sharing and editing documents. Officials within Government departments also need to be able to work efficiently and to share and collaborate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIt is also the Labour Party\u2019s view that the one-size-fits-all approach to public sector procurement and build processes is fundamentally flawed. It costs this country millions of dollars every year in failed software projects, robbing us of the chance to be a world leader in the development of innovative public sector products. All I have to do is mention Novopay. More than 2,000 schools are still struggling to deal with this dilapidated system. There is more than $9.3 million in debts to recover, and ongoing errors are still creating hundreds of thousands of dollars in new debt. As for the Inland Revenue Department project, we have a Government that is demanding that IT contractors be massive and slow moving. Even the former Minister of Revenue Peter Dunne has got problems with the way that the procurement processes have occurred\u2014$1.5 billion. These are things that we have serious concerns about, and it is not just us who have serious concerns about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EInterestingly, apart from the wider sector, which has serious concerns, the New Zealand Productivity Commission also has concerns. Last week it released its latest report, and in it were some damning findings about the lack of integration within the Government on information and communications technology policy to do with regulatory issues and to do with Government information and communications technology purchases. It referred to siloed thinking in Government departments, a lack of coordination, and regulation being introduced without regard for economic impact. That is very interesting, because it even made a recommendation that said, as a matter of promoting good policy advice, that \u201CThe Treasury, the State Services Commission and the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet should ensure that the design of regulations that significantly affects the adoption of ICT by firms takes comprehensive account of costs and benefits.\u201D If that does not tell you that you have got problems, then I do not know what does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe biggest problem here is the lack of leadership. There is a lack of leadership and a lack of vision on that side of the House around tackling these very important things. This report went on to say that \u201Cknowledge spill-overs from Government ICT procurement are only likely to have value if the Government is at the leading edge of ICT adoption.\u201D\u2014which it says it is not\u2014\u201COn the contrary, the technologies that government agencies use are often older than those used in the private sector. For example, some agencies continued to use Windows XP long after it has been superseded by more recent versions and right up till security support was withdrawn by Microsoft.\u201D That was in April this year. There are nearly 20,000 Government computers being used without security support at this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022 data-id=\u0022d00ec1aba90649dfa0a7c7835d62dfb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d00ec1aba90649dfa0a7c7835d62dfb4\u0022\u003ECLAUDETTE HAUITI (National):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. It is a pleasure to rise and take a call at this time because I do want to say to my colleagues in the House that it is all about trust and it is all about empowerment and that this is a Government that knows what it is doing for a country that knows where it is going. New Zealanders want a Government that they can trust and M\u0101ori want a Government that they can trust. M\u0101ori want a Government that will listen to them. M\u0101ori marched, M\u0101ori protested, and M\u0101ori demanded that the Crown honour the Treaty. In 1975, at the \u201CNot one more acre\u201D M\u0101ori Land March, we heard the word \u201Crangatiratanga\u201D; in 1978, at Takaparawh\u0101, we heard the words \u201Cmana motuhake\u201D; and in 2004, at the seabed and foreshore h\u012Bkoi, we heard \u201CHonour the Treaty\u201D, \u201Crangatiratanga\u201D, and \u201Cmana motuhake\u201D. We heard rangatiratanga and mana motuhake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori came knocking and the National Government opened that door\u2014not the Labour Government, but National. We have had 69 Treaty settlements. All the claims in the South Island have been settled. A pragmatic approach to settlements is a focus on equality. With our partner the M\u0101ori Party we have targeted wh\u0101nau. There is $500 million supporting tamariki and wh\u0101nau, including $172 million for paid parental leave, $42 million for parental tax credits, and $16 million for M\u0101ori housing. That is a M\u0101ori housing fund, and that is over and above our partnership with iwi, the T\u0101maki Collective, Kirikiriroa, and the K\u014Dkiri Te R\u0101huitanga Charitable Trust\u2014these are just some of the partnerships that we have forged as of right under the Treaty of Waitangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003EIn hauora, free doctors visits and rongo\u0101, prescriptions, for under-sixes are extended to under-13-year-olds. There is $33 million targeting the wh\u0101nau in most need. There is $15.8 million in disability services for our people. There is $830 million in education, including $359 million to strengthen leadership in schools. Although I hear the Opposition talk about principals and head teachers not wanting to participate, make no mistake about it that there are schools in South Auckland and schools in west Auckland that are more than ready, more than willing, and more than capable to step up into those positions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003EThere is $2.4 million for the Reading Together programme for deciles 4 and 5 kura, and $12 million for Te Reo M\u0101ori. There is $80 million for kirik\u0101 r\u016Bm\u0101tiki, to battle a Third World disease\u2014rheumatic fever. This National Government has done it. And $8 million is going into suicide prevention. In terms of whenua, there is $5 million for te mana o te wai. There is $3.5 million to assist beneficiary whanau to take up full-time mahi in Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003EIf you do what you have always done, you are going to get what you have always got, and so that means that if we did nothing for M\u0101ori and if we did not honour our responsibility under the Treaty of Waitangi, we would have got what we have always had under the previous Government. But this is what we have got for that investment. This is what M\u0101ori have done for themselves under rangatiratanga and motuhake. This is about empowerment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003EThe early childhood education participation rate for M\u0101ori in 2013 was at 92 percent and climbing. There were 77 percent of 18-year-olds achieving National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA) level 2 in 2012, and that number is rising. M\u0101ori NCEA level 2 achievement or equivalent rose higher than in any other group\u201454 percent of M\u0101ori school leavers achieved level 2 in 2009, compared with 45 percent under the previous Government. In 2012, 28 percent of M\u0101ori students were in tertiary education and studying at a Bachelor\u2019s degree level, compared with 21 percent in 2007, and that figure is rising. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed550fc2-879f-4560-affa-d35858308ad4\u0022\u003EFifty percent of those in trades training are our t\u0101ne M\u0101ori. Yes, we are getting about a five out of five achievement rate and success rate for our kids in school. Under the previous Government, it was three out of five, and that Government was satisfied with that. The two who were failing were our M\u0101ori and Pasifika t\u0101ne. This Government is intent on and focused on getting five out of five achievement, and that includes our boys, our t\u0101ne, who were failing under the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022166837e0ec684b7083f2777e2a2c4f48\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022166837e0ec684b7083f2777e2a2c4f48\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the honourable member Dr Kennedy Graham. [Interruption] Order! Can I just take the opportunity to advise members who are new to the House that in the general debate it is the custom and practice that as soon as the bell goes, members sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a11ea2f58ea44eafb640a9fc28dc7acb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a11ea2f58ea44eafb640a9fc28dc7acb\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Over the past few months I have intervened on a number of occasions in the general debate to draw our collective attention to the issue of climate change. I have heard it said, including in this Chamber, that the Green Party does not own the issue of climate change. We could not agree more. The issue is owned by humanity\u2014which includes the National Party\u2014so the Greens do not have sole ownership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EBut shared ownership does not in itself mean shared insight. The Prime Minister, as we have noted before, was sceptical of global warming as recently as 2005, a decade after the previous National Government signed the global treaty acknowledging it to be a threat to the future of humankind. On becoming Prime Minister, Mr Key allowed himself and therefore his Government to acknowledge climate change to be a problem, but the sceptical mind-set remains. Its mutated form lives on in policy prevarication. We are small, so mitigation is not essential; it is long term, so mitigation is not urgent; and as long as it is not urgent or essential, we can continue with our mercantilist, \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D approach to the world, where we earn dollars through raw commodity export earnings off the global economy. Wrong on both counts. Mitigation by New Zealand is essential and it is urgent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EIt is urgent because serious climate change has already arrived. This week the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration released a finding that May 2014 was the hottest month in recorded history. The combined average temperature over global land and ocean surface was 0.74 degrees Celsius above the 20th century average\u201415.5 instead of 14.8. Is this significant? Yes, because it is part of a pattern. Four of the five warmest Mays on record have occurred in the past 5 years. May 2014 is the 351st consecutive month with a global temperature above the 20th century average. Does this matter? Yes, because it is linked to severe climate change, beginning with precipitation. Extreme wetness, says the agency, was observed in May over Europe and equatorial Africa, while extreme dryness was experienced in South America and Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EWhy go into such detail on what is essentially a scientific issue, and so soon before an election? Because this is the House of Representatives and we are meant to be responsible for the future of this country and our people. Because although we sit uncomfortably in our chairs here when the subject comes up and avoid eye contact, the fact is that climate change is the biggest issue to confront us ever. So when we receive news of this kind reinforcing the obvious, it needs to be read into the record of this House, even if only once. It needs to be on record that this House was warned, during debate, over the impending danger of a warming climate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ESo what might this Parliament do then in response? We could begin by taking seriously the Wise Response petition, which calls for a national risk assessment supported by cross-party endorsement. We could agree that our Parliament has two responsibilities: a short-term one to protect the job security of the present generation, and a long-term one to ensure the next generation has half a chance to protect their quality of life. And even a distant responsibility that would recognise the possibility of a sea level rise over centuries and millennia of 10 to 20 metres if Greenland and Antarctica are truly in irreversible ice-melt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EIf this sounds politically surreal in 2014, perhaps we are in new and uncharted territory. We could then acknowledge together the international advice that today\u2019s preventive measures will actually be economically advantageous to us all. Then we could agree, even with an election looming, that we will not misrepresent each other\u2019s policies, and could search for common ground that can underpin an enduring national climate policy, because this climate thing is bigger than politics and bigger than all of us mortals alive right now, really.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225a7d72d710e4425884a2045113935ef8\u0022\u003EArts Centre of Christchurch Trust Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224d83fe9d66674a669545c7e851da99a2\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u0022b28270d8ad154e2b8ad17e6737e22c72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b28270d8ad154e2b8ad17e6737e22c72\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER (National - Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Arts Centre of Christchurch Trust Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Local Government and Environment Committee to consider this bill. I have been asked to be the member in charge of this bill and I am delighted, because I can tell you that the Arts Centre holds a very special place in the hearts of my family but, more important, in the hearts of the people of Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe Arts Centre is a collection of historic buildings on a site previously occupied by the University of Canterbury and two of the city\u2019s original secondary schools. It represents one of the largest clusters of heritage buildings in New Zealand and is a cultural asset of local, national, and international significance. As well as reflecting a unique part of our country\u2019s architectural heritage, the Arts Centre has a rich history of education, of arts, and of science. Nobel Prize - winning scientist Lord Rutherford completed his undergraduate degree and carried out most of his groundbreaking research at this site, and his den has been restored to commemorate that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EBy the late 1970s the University of Canterbury had relocated to the suburb of Ilam and the buildings were transferred to the Arts Centre of Christchurch Trust Board. The trust was established in 1978. It was to provide a cultural centre and to preserve the architectural character and integrity of the historic stone buildings on the site. Since this time the Arts Centre played an important role as a community asset and it has been used for a variety of arts-related activities, including art and artisan studio spaces, cafes and restaurants, theatres, cinemas, retail, outdoor markets, galleries, and public performances. The Arts Centre became known as a key destination for visitors and for locals alike. An estimated 1.5 million people visited the Arts Centre every year, with approximately half of them coming from outside the Christchurch region. But in 2010 and 2011, when the Canterbury region was struck by a series of devastating earthquakes, all but one of the Arts Centre\u2019s 23 heritage buildings sustained significant damage and were subsequently deemed unsafe. This forced the closure of the site in 2011 for the foreseeable future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EWork is now under way on a path of transformation to restore and to reawaken one of New Zealand\u2019s most significant heritage sites. The Arts Centre\u2019s restoration programme is understood to be one of the largest of its kind to be undertaken in the world today. Piece by piece the Arts Centre is being strengthened and restored to its original form. It will be stronger, more durable, and safer than before the earthquakes, and at the same time we are adding modern services to improve public access and the use of the buildings. Over the coming years there will be a phased reopening of the site. The first building in the programme has already been opened, and that is the restored Registry Building. Such is the work that it has been recognised for excellence with a Christchurch Civic Trust award in late 2013. The commitment of the Arts Centre to the re-emergence of arts and culture in the city is also evident in its redevelopment, and the gymnasium, which opens in the coming months, will be the new home of Free Theatre Christchurch, in collaboration with the Arts Circus project. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ESignificant planning and work is under way to enable the Arts Centre to achieve a vision for the future. This is about not just restoring the physical buildings but also providing a foundation for arts, culture, heritage, and education in a much stronger way than has ever been done before. The goal is to create a hub of creative entrepreneurs in the heart of Christchurch that is undeniably 21st century. This is informed by the objects of the trust and the need for the Arts Centre to be financially sustainable. The activities at the Arts Centre will complement and support a broad range of cultural, arts, and education activities in Christchurch. Importantly, the revitalised Arts Centre will bring people back into our city. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThis bill is a key part of protecting and preserving the Arts Centre of Christchurch for the future. It sets out the objects of the trust in legislation and reflects the cultural and heritage significance of the Arts Centre. It provides an opportunity for greater certainty around the original intentions of the trust deed to preserve the architectural and heritage values of the site and to provide a vibrant cultural centre for the people of Christchurch and visitors to the city. The bill will also enable the Arts Centre to modernise its governance arrangements. The new governance structure has been recommended by the Arts Centre\u2019s trust board following a comprehensive review. This included the commissioning of an independent report with the support of the Ministry for Culture and Heritage and also involved an extensive consultation process with stakeholders over the last couple of years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe bill provides for a skills-based board appointed by an appointments committee. Stakeholders, including the broader community, will have the opportunity to nominate candidates for trustee vacancies. This will provide trustees with the essential support of the community. It is vitally important that the trust maintains a strong set of skills during the restoration phase of the Arts Centre but also over the next few years, and that an enduring governance structure is in place for the repopulation phase and beyond. In the unlikely event in the future that the trust is unable to carry out its charitable objects and is wound up, the bill also provides for the site to be vested in the Crown on an interim basis until a new entity is put in place. This is to ensure that there is always a safe pair of hands in the short term if such circumstances would ever arise, and that gives a level of certainty that the current trust deed cannot provide. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThis bill is about protecting the Arts Centre of Christchurch for the future. It reflects the local, national, and international heritage significance of the site. The bill will provide legal foundations for the trust board to continue to be able to recover from the impacts of the earthquakes. It is also appropriate for the governance structure to be adapted to account for changed circumstances and to better secure the protection of this important cultural asset into the future. In this way the future of the Arts Centre can be assured. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe Arts Centre of Christchurch is an absolute treasure. It deserves to be respected and cared for. The trustees and the management at the Arts Centre are all highly committed and working incredibly hard on this project. My hope is that in years to come people will feel that a revitalised Arts Centre has really anchored them back into Christchurch. I strongly believe that the Arts Centre will be an inspiring public place that is recognised from the past and protected for the future. We will benefit from not only restoring our history and culture but also from the site being strengthened and improved for future generations. From the damaged buildings and the rubble there is a unique opportunity to create a new, vibrant centre that will be a source of great pride for Christchurch and New Zealand as a whole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI am delighted to move the motion for the first reading of this bill today. I look forward to the select committee deliberations and the bill\u2019s return to the House, and its ultimate passage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00229dac2ab3b120449995c6e9b9ba724472\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229dac2ab3b120449995c6e9b9ba724472\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I recognise the Hon Ruth Dyson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022040250fa613f482883c232797b2baa96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022040250fa613f482883c232797b2baa96\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour - Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E Can I say that I am very pleased that after our years in Parliament together you do recognise me. I would be very disappointed if you could not recall who I was. It is a real pleasure for me to stand in support of this legislation, the Arts Centre of Christchurch Trust Bill, and I want to begin by acknowledging the Hon Nicky Wagner, who has introduced this private bill as a local member of Parliament. I want to commend her for that. I also want to acknowledge the eight members of the Arts Centre of Christchurch Trust Board, and in particular our former parliamentary colleague the Hon Margaret Austin, who I know is very passionate about this legislation. She is very passionate about heritage and, like all of us from Canterbury, I suppose, she is devastated at the loss that has happened as a result of the quakes in our city. Actually, it is not just as a result of the quakes; it is also as a result of the demolition orders of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority, where we have had magnificent heritage buildings demolished rather than be repaired. That is a travesty and I know that the Hon Margaret Austin and her fellow trustees would feel that very keenly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThat is another demonstration, actually, of the National Government being so out of touch with where people are. People in Canterbury would love to see more of their heritage buildings repaired and restored so that we could once again have that connection to the past, which is actually so important for people looking to the future. But this is not about the buildings that have been destroyed by the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority\u2014thank goodness. This legislation is about an extremely damaged set of buildings at the Arts Centre, which have started to be lovingly and tenderly put back together, piece by piece. It is going to be such a magnificent restoration of a set of buildings that really are at the heart and history of our city. As Nicky Wagner noted, the University of Canterbury used to be there. I want to acknowledge the Hon Michael Cullen, who was one of its pupils. Knowing Michael, he is probably listening to this debate, because he is very interested in heritage and history. That was his speciality when he was at the university. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis bill is pretty straightforward. It puts into legislation the trust\u2019s objects, and that is very important. It also makes changes to the governance arrangements and other terms of the trust, so it is a legislative protection. The trustees and other people who have been involved in the operation have proposed to our Parliament that this is the best way to ensure the continuity of care, passion, and dedication to the running of the Arts Centre, but also to ensure that, whatever happens in the future, work is still able to continue. So I think it is a bit of the responsibility of Parliament to accept that that work has been done and it is really our job to progress it from here, as is appropriate with private bills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe Arts Centre is actually undergoing a huge restoration job at the moment. It is a 7-year time frame. It will cost $290 million, which is a huge amount of money, and I think that having this legislation will mean that many potential donors will have more confidence and understanding of the needs of the trust and the needs of Canterbury and will be better positioned to support them. I hope that that is one of the many benefits of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ECan I just conclude by expressing a small amount of disappointment. I do not want to personalise it, but I need to direct it to the member whose name the bill is in, because she just said she is going to refer the bill to the Local Government and Environment Committee. I am devastated, because the Government Administration Committee has got nothing on the agenda. We are a really competent committee and Margaret Austin told us that we were probably going to get this bill. She thought that we were going to have it referred to us. The members of that committee agreed to an informal discussion with the Hon Margaret Austin, just so we were ahead of the game, and that was much appreciated by everyone. Now we are devastated. I think that my colleagues on that committee are probably too upset to contribute to the rest of the debate, to be honest. So if the Minister changes her mind before the conclusion of the debate, the members of the Government Administration Committee stand ready, willing, and able to take charge of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI am really delighted that this bill is here. I am proud to support it, and I hope that it progresses and creates some interest in our city and some good debate. I hope it creates a further sense of pride in our heritage and a respect and passion for the people who do so much in our city, particularly the trustees of the Arts Centre. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00223280ea299e5a42be9bd2f9bd445ba242\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223280ea299e5a42be9bd2f9bd445ba242\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the honourable member, I just wish to advise members that the people\u2019s House, the Chamber, is a place of listening and debate. This is not a call centre. Cellphones are not an extension of a member\u2019s office, and when in the House they must be in silent mode.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022126dfdd94a0946609e13fe8a5bf6c81f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022126dfdd94a0946609e13fe8a5bf6c81f\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National - Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to stand up in this first reading of the Hon Nicky Wagner\u2019s private bill, the Arts Centre of Christchurch Trust Bill. I am absolutely delighted that this bill has been referred to the Local Government and Environment Committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022304d9949bf5840eeb6bf6aa7b03d15cc\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t rub it in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af6f4153399f4ac5ba714946eafe560f\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: I am delighted that this bill has been referred to the Local Government and Environment Committee, not least because it is a pretty damn good and hard-working committee, with an excellent chair in Maggie Barry, who will be taking a call on this bill in due course. We are dealing with some related matters that will help inform the discussion on this bill, and no doubt that was in the mind of the Hon Nicky Wagner when she introduced this bill\u2014that the Local Government and Environment Committee is dealing with the earthquake-prone buildings legislation and that, in fact, its members are travelling the length of New Zealand listening to submissions. That information will inform our consideration of this bill. So I want to congratulate the Hon Nicky Wagner on introducing this bill and undertaking to give it a pretty good working over in the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe Arts Centre in Christchurch is something that all of us New Zealanders who have travelled around New Zealand are very well aware of. It is the secondary magnet in Christchurch\u2014is it? The first magnet is Cathedral Square and the secondary magnet is the Arts Centre, for its vibrant, wonderful centre of creativity and arts for a number of years\u2014since, I think, about the mid to late 1970s, when the trust was formed and it was recognised to be the future hub for arts and creativity. Unless you were there, you cannot imagine the devastation caused by, and the impact of, the two earthquakes in 2010 and 2011. Twenty-two of the 23 buildings were closed to the public, pending a major restoration effort. Although it is one thing to restore the buildings, it is a large project. It is a 7-year project, and something like a $290 million restoration programme. It is one thing to undertake the physical works, but what needs to go with that, and the very reason for this bill, which is why the Hon Nicky Wagner is so right to introduce it, is that the governance arrangements need to be updated to enable the Arts Centre of Christchurch Trust Board to undertake this major, major piece of work, so that the Arts Centre, once it is restored\u2014in 7 years, I hope\u2014can return to being the exciting, vibrant, and thriving centre that it has been in the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EActually, we have been there several times since the earthquakes and there are little pockets of activity. It is still an exciting place to visit. Is there a wonderful cheesemaker\u2019s there? Yes, that is right. The Hon Nicky Wagner took us to the most wonderful little artisan, boutique cheese shop, Canterbury Cheesemongers\u2014fantastic. I believe I bought some cheese to take home to North Otago, but do not tell Whitestone Cheese\u2014but never mind. It is still a vibrant part of Christchurch, encapsulating all that is good about the recovery in Christchurch. Something devastating has happened. The board of the Arts Centre in Christchurch understands it needs to do the physical rebuild, but it also understands very clearly that it needs to bring the governance structure in line with the responsibilities, the aims, and the purposes of that very rebuild. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI do look forward to the scrutiny of this bill as it passes through the excellent Local Government and Environment Committee, and I do commend the member for bringing it to the House. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022a95bc84d8c5c4eafa5348f7c60d32c02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a95bc84d8c5c4eafa5348f7c60d32c02\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to take a very brief call on the Arts Centre of Christchurch Trust Bill. I want to join my colleagues in congratulating Nicky Wagner on bringing this bill before the House. It is good to see some discussion around heritage issues in Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAlthough at the beginning of the recovery it was very necessary to take a safety-first approach to Christchurch\u2019s buildings, we on this side of the House have been concerned for some time that we are now at a point where we are concerned about the powers under the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority Act, and in particular section 38, which allows for the demolition of those heritage buildings. It is time now, we believe, for that section to be repealed and for there to be due process over the removal of further heritage buildings. We have lost 50 percent of the heritage buildings in Canterbury, and it is time, I think, for us to take a step back and say that we have addressed those immediate safety concerns and we do need to turn our minds to preserving the wonderful, beautiful history of the Canterbury region. I just make that plea at the beginning of my statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EJust very quickly, to summarise, obviously Labour supports this bill. The Arts Centre is the jewel in the crown of heritage buildings in Canterbury. It is important, though, that we ensure that the framework that sits around the trust and all of the work that it is having to do now\u2014the comprehensive and expensive restoration work\u2014is fit for purpose, that it gives the trust a good, sound footing, and that it adapts to the situation it now find itself in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI wish very well those who are on the governance committees of the Arts Centre for the work they are doing, and I particularly acknowledge, as my colleague has done, Margaret Austin in that work. Finally, I just reiterate our support for this bill and our thanks to Nicky Wagner for bringing it forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022119d63e5fed14feb8b1264f75cc4ddf3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022119d63e5fed14feb8b1264f75cc4ddf3\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. I am pleased to take a call on the Arts Centre of Christchurch Trust Bill, which the Green Party will be supporting. Like other members, I acknowledge the Hon Nicky Wagner for bringing the bill to the House, and the hard-working and committed members of the trust board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EI was privileged to have an office in the Old Chemistry building on Hereford Street through the 1990s and early 2000s. It is indeed a privilege to work in a building that has got such a history of craftsmanship and has been used and enjoyed by so many people over the decades. As you enter the Old Chemistry building, the stone steps have a depression in them, and each time I walked up them I wondered how many thousands of students\u2019 feet had passed that way before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe craftsmanship in the buildings, in terms of the ornamental stonework and the architecture, is not found in many buildings today. The buildings, the whole complex itself, were constructed by some of Canterbury\u2019s early significant and leading architects, like Benjamin Mountfort and Samuel Hurst-Seager, and that is one of the reasons why it is one of the most significant clusters of heritage buildings in New Zealand. They are not just nationally important; they are internationally important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E Heritage New Zealand Pouhere Taonga has recognised the Arts Centre campus as a building with special or outstanding historical or cultural heritage significance and value. It was really disappointing that in the series of earthquakes, despite the work that the trust had put into earthquake strengthening prior to the quakes, there was significant damage to all but one of the 23 buildings on the campus. But whenever you walk down Worcester Boulevard or Hereford Street and you see the very steady and thoughtful progress of the restoration work that is being done, it is very encouraging, particularly because it is being done in a careful way. The work is being phased. It is a significant and very large project\u2014one of the largest in the world, I understand, given the complexity of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThere is a very marked contrast between the thoughtful work that is happening to the Arts Centre and the desolation we have in the rest of the central city because of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority\u2019s very aggressive demolition strategy in relation to heritage buildings. Its strategy has seen the destruction of over 230 buildings with a heritage listing. It is really disappointing that the same care that is being put into the Arts Centre could not have been exercised by the authority in terms of its decisions on whether buildings should stay or go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe buildings are significant not just for their craftsmanship and their architecture but also for their history. The University of Canterbury was founded in 1873. It moved on to the site in 1876. The buildings were there to accommodate the university and two of the city\u2019s major secondary schools, Christchurch Boys\u2019 High School and Christchurch Girls\u2019 High School. When the university celebrated its centennial in 1973 it got the Government\u2019s permission to preserve the buildings and to sell off some of the ones at the western end of the complex, and that has been the basis of the buildings growing to form a very special place in the hearts of many Christchurch citizens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe are very pleased to support this bill, because it updates and modernises the governance arrangements for the trust, and it consolidates the trust\u2019s administration. It includes provisions that will provide for the appointment of a skills-based board, and it provides a much more secure future for the Arts Centre because of the provisions that mean that in the event that the trust board had to be wound up, the Crown would have to establish a new entity with objects as close as possible to the objects in this bill. At the present time, if the board had to be wound up, then it could use the assets that the Arts Centre represents for any educational or charitable purpose. So it has a much more secure future with this change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAnother one of the improvements in terms of the governance arrangements is that the board will have to hold an annual public meeting, because Christchurch citizens are concerned about the future of the Arts Centre. It was very controversial in 2009, with the University of Canterbury\u2019s proposal to establish a new school of music on the site.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u00227a9eb131c4e94e9e8aef53efa2157511\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a9eb131c4e94e9e8aef53efa2157511\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First as the arts and culture spokesperson. I am pleased to stand in support of the Arts Centre of Christchurch Trust Bill going to the Local Government and Environment Committee, and to acknowledge the member of Parliament Nicky Wagner for bringing the bill to the House, and the trustees who have been working around these heritage properties for some time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EIn my own experience in my own town, where we have a grand lady that was also 100 years old, and where there have been a substantial number of voices calling for us to pull down our heritage, to attack our heritage, because it might be in a prime spot that might have more commercial value, I know how difficult it can be sometimes to argue the point that these buildings must be protected and must be maintained. In the circumstances that I am talking about, with this category I building with the last building made of hollow blocks, not of a stone block construction, we have to raise only $1 million more to make sure that the inside is preserved and strengthened, as opposed to $290 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EMy hat is off to the very brave people who have put themselves forward, who will put themselves forward, and who will commit themselves to these buildings and to the maintenance of this heritage, as already has been suggested, not just for Christchurch but for the country. It is just another step on the way to making sure that this Parliament supports the people of Christchurch in any way that it can to bring their city back to the fabulous city that it was. They still have the character, the strength, and the backbone that they always had, and they are probably even more resilient than they ever were, due to the circumstances of the earthquakes. But they still need support in particular ways, and this is one of the ways that this Parliament can give that support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWe do not see any reason to take up any more time to talk any more about the bill. We look forward to the select committee process. We look forward to reviewing the wide consultation that has already taken place around this particular issue. We believe that it has strong support from the local area, so we will commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00222cb1e0f1356a4fed92e6d53c760478bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cb1e0f1356a4fed92e6d53c760478bc\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just advise members on 5-minute speeches. Custom and practice dictate that, like the general debate, speakers with 5-minute slots are to be seated on the ringing of the bell and the next speaker should seek the call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca092a46091d401e91a04b57e17ce1c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca092a46091d401e91a04b57e17ce1c9\u0022\u003EMAGGIE BARRY (National - North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E I rise with great pleasure to speak to the Arts Centre of Christchurch Trust Bill at its first reading. As the chair of the Local Government and Environment Committee, I am delighted that the Hon Nicky Wagner has chosen to take this bill to our committee. It is a very good thing indeed, and, of course, she is extremely well placed, unlike a member from Auckland. Nicky Wagner understands only too well the importance of the Arts Centre to the community of Christchurch. It is an essential part of the fabric, the history, of the town. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EAs someone who studied horticulture in Christchurch many, many years ago, to me the building really does typify what is quintessentially Christchurch. It is a magnificent building. One of the many tragedies that occurred after the earthquakes is the fact that all but one of the centre\u2019s 23 buildings were very, very badly damaged, and it is wonderful indeed to see this magnificent building be restored and be able to be used in a way that will reflect the history of the city, even when so much else all around it has changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EIt seems to me that when you modernise and make more fit for purpose buildings of the importance of the Arts Centre, it is also very important to change the governance structures so that they too are able to reflect the changing needs of those buildings. So to get people in charge of the buildings who have the skill set required to guide and push them through to the place where they need to be\u2014to be again a jewel in the crown of Christchurch City\u2014is indeed a very important thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EAs Nicky Wagner pointed out in the opening call in this debate, the centre used to be visited by 1.5 million visitors annually, and, of those, half came from outside the region. I think that when you look at the proud history of Christchurch\u2019s buildings\u2014apart from the Cathedral, and I share members\u2019 concerns that that is a building that has not been restored to the grandeur it deserves\u2014we can see that the remaining buildings do need to be very carefully looked at and preserved. Piece by piece, stone by stone, these magnificent buildings will rise and be fit for modern purpose. Buildings of this kind are very representative of Christchurch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThis bill will enable the centre to modernise the governance arrangements. It will set out the objects of the trust in legislation, which will protect it and enshrine those protections. It will also reflect, as a baseline, the cultural heritage significance of the Arts Centre, but with that modern edge and with that post-earthquakes edge as well. This is a bill that will ensure that the Arts Centre will be in a safe pair of hands in the short term, and in the longer term the vision for the future and the governance role of the directors will ensure that it remains relevant and fit for purpose, no matter what challenges might occur for it in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI think that setting out the trust\u2019s current objectives in legislation, with the consequences that they can be changed only by amendment to the legislation, is a further strengthening. It is as important as the earthquake strengthening. It is important that people cannot fiddle and tamper with something that really needs to be able to just get on with the very challenging job that it has for its future. As I indicated, this is a bill that provides for a skills-based board that will be appointed by an appointments committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESometimes in the past\u2014I have seen it a little bit in Christchurch and in other places\u2014well-intentioned people who have got time on their hands and who would like to get involved in a project, do get involved in it, but sometimes there is more required than that. So, with the best will in the world, that very important decision-making role of who should be on a board and what skill sets are required needs to be properly protected and enshrined, so that there is not going to be any misunderstanding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EGiven the amount of time, energy, and resources that have been put into this bill, and into the centre itself, it is really important that in the future it be secured in perpetuity. I think the objects of the trust, as set out in the legislation, do need to be clearly distinguished from the powers of the trust board, and that is all because those objects need to be advanced. Along with the other reasons and points that have been made by other speakers in this debate, I join with them in commending this bill to the House. I look forward to it coming before the Local Government and Environment Committee and going through due process in due course. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u002246a06174c94040cea4f1001e7fce1739\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246a06174c94040cea4f1001e7fce1739\u0022\u003EPOTO WILLIAMS (Labour - Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Assistant Speaker. Meitaki maata. I rise to take a short call on the Arts Centre of Christchurch Trust Bill. I acknowledge the Hon Nicky Wagner for bringing this bill to the House. Of course, it is something that we are very happy to support because it is a beautiful precinct and it has a lot of history and significance in Christchurch. I want to acknowledge the members of the trust board who are here today to support the discussion in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EI am a little envious, I have to say, of the member Eugenie Sage, who actually got the opportunity to work in the precinct. What wonderful memories you must have of that place. I have to say that my own connection is rather more recreational, but I have spent many, many times enjoying the markets there previously. I know what a touchstone the whole precinct is for that part of the city and that many people gather there. It is unfortunate that we have lost so much in Christchurch, but the care and the love that the trust board has for this centre and has really put into saving the buildings will ensure that the centre will go on into perpetuity for the people of Canterbury and for people from outside the region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EI have to say that that is a really important part of this bill. It is about the structure of the board and governance issues and ensuring that there is good, sound structure for the Arts Centre to continue, but it also has a very emotional heart because we have lost a lot of the touchstones that we had in that city. You would connect different parts of the city to the significant buildings that occupied those spaces, and we have lost so many of them. It is a particularly pretty and beautiful part of our city, and it is wonderful to know that those buildings will be retained there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EI do not have too much more to say on this, other than to commend the trust for wanting to strengthen the provisions within its charitable objects, wanting to strengthen the work that it does within its board structure, ensuring that it has the right people and the right skill sets on board, and ensuring that it has got the opportunity to get all of the expertise to continue to develop not only the recovery and the rebuild of this particular precinct but also the sense and the mana of the Arts Centre to continue on past this particular board into the future. I just want to say that it is a great bill. We are really happy to support it and I commend the Associate Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery on this. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u00222756b97c3c5c4d588914557138f252d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222756b97c3c5c4d588914557138f252d7\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (National - Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the Arts Centre of Christchurch Trust Bill in its first reading and I acknowledge the sponsor, Christchurch Central MP Nicky Wagner, for introducing it to the House. I know that this is not just something that she simply does. I know that her heart is very much in this bill, just as her heart is very much in Christchurch. I congratulate her and happily support the provisions in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThe Arts Centre restoration programme is understood to be the largest of its kind ever to be undertaken in the world today. This bill is a key part of protecting and preserving that very Arts Centre of Christchurch for all of our futures, but not least of all for the people of Christchurch and of wider Canterbury. It sets out the objects of the trust in legislation and reflects the cultural and heritage significance of the Arts Centre. In noting that, it is important that the objects of the trust, as set out in this legislation, are clearly distinguished from the powers of the trust board to advance these objects. This is because of the local, national, and international heritage significance of the Arts Centre and its historic buildings. It is because of the importance of the trust\u2019s objectives in relation to ensuring that the Arts Centre continues as a cultural centre for the people and visitors of Christchurch, and it is so the heritage integrity of the Arts Centre and its historic stone buildings are preserved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThe Arts Centre holds a very special place in the hearts of the people of Christchurch. It is a collection of historic buildings on a site previously occupied by the University of Canterbury, and the Associate Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery gave us a brief history lesson on that. The Arts Centre was occupied by the University of Canterbury and two of the city\u2019s original secondary schools. In fact, it represents one of the largest clusters of heritage buildings in New Zealand and is a cultural asset of local, national, and international significance\u2014as I outlined before. Interestingly, the Nobel Prize - winning scientist Lord Rutherford completed his undergraduate degree and carried out most of his ground-breaking research on this site. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThis bill also provides an opportunity for greater certainty around the original intentions of the trust deed. This is to preserve the architectural and heritage values of the site. It is very important that we keep as close as possible to what was originally intended by designers and those involved in the act of construction way back when the original build occurred. It will provide a vibrant cultural centre for the people of Christchurch, and, of course, the bill will also ensure that the new governance structure that has been recommended by the Arts Centre\u2019s trust board, following a comprehensive review, does in fact occur. This process included the commissioning of an independent report, with the support of the Ministry for Culture and Heritage, and also involved an extensive consultation process with stakeholders over the last couple of years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThe bill provides for a skills-based board appointment by an appointments committee. That is very, very important. Stakeholders, including the broader community, will have the opportunity to nominate candidates for trustee vacancies. I see an opportunity there. This will provide trustees with the essential support of the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229314744e13ac495db2c4dca73bf4a28d\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: A career opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f76f76e6b0b4a55982d32a92948724b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: As one who is searching. Importantly, prior to the drafting of this bill the trust board has undertaken wide-ranging consultation with key external stakeholders already\u2014including the University of Canterbury, the Christchurch City Council, Heritage New Zealand Pouhere Taonga, the Christchurch Civic Trust, and papatipu r\u016Bnanga of Canterbury\u2014about the nature and the effect of the proposed changes. So the community as a whole is well weaved into this process and there is tremendous support for what Minister Wagner wants to achieve here for the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThese stakeholders are supportive in principle of the proposed changes, including the move to a skills-based trust board. They see the sense in that. That is something that this National Government has over the last 5 or 6 years ensured\u2014that skills on boards throughout the country are made top priority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u00222fbc8de8a8554ca7b1b94d0a31b76be8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fbc8de8a8554ca7b1b94d0a31b76be8\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I would just like to take a call on this particular bill, the Arts Centre of Christchurch Trust Bill, because coming, as I do, from the West Coast, the development and the restoration of Christchurch institutions are very, very important to us. Not only that, I was a resident in Christchurch for some years and this particular centre was where my children used to go when they were playing in their orchestra, and I would join many a parent listening to the wonderful renditions of children under 10\u2014and I was very heartened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EAnother reason I would like to speak on this bill is to provide support for my colleague the Hon Nicky Wagner, who is a very, very hard-working MP in Christchurch. It was very pleasing to hear some of the principal speakers on the Labour side saying that they felt she had done a jolly good job. However, it would seem that Phil Twyford finds it boring. He asked Phil Heatley in the previous speech to hurry up, when he was talking about something as important as this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227acb336f253d469d82688bb4d782686b\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not about Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cdc417048484856b849ca58cbabf242\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: It is not about Auckland; therefore, Phil Twyford is not interested. I was astonished. I had always given him a little bit of credit for being reasonably cultured: you know, not just having books with illustrations in them, but into the odd chapter books, some joined up writing\u2014Phil could handle this. But, no\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223473828da3d946d5ab0189ed11bf10a1\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: He should be out doorknocking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d4ebc5a12ce4516b615a30d7603585a\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: He should indeed be out doorknocking, and it is just something of a disappointment to hear such a stream of criticism coming over from the other side. Well, I hope he was listening to Phil Heatley, because I am going to say much the same things myself, because there may be points that he missed. But all jokes aside\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a661bec387d04b28ac04b57b4eea2aa2\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: He was a fine housing Minister, Phil Heatley.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cc572a912e94ff28aee3bf30de69528\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: It was a fine speech by Mr Heatley. I quite agree with you. Thank you for saying that. I do remember the building, and, of course, it is not just a matter of Christchurch residents benefiting; it is the whole area\u2014the diaspora of Christchurch, the entrep\u00F4t of the South Island, and the second-largest city in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThis centre of it\u2014the cultural centre, the Arts Centre\u2014is a very important aspect. This bill sets out the objects of the trust and the powers of the trust board to advance these objects in an Act. Mr Assistant Speaker, I realise that you were getting frustrated with the level of interjection that we were receiving from the other side. I did not really notice it, but I think Mr Twyford had something else to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226eb5faf6abc54af59bc64acf78214ccc\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: A top-quality interjection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022928d978bcaee47da9439e14f433d3595\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: You had a question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cb5b90621c24fcca00e2515bcd4a1b9\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Top quality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af5e7242903c4f24be633b0ca6be7e5a\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: A top-quality interjection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292160aff6aba4bb7810be6aac21b0fec\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: I said it\u2019s pronounced \u201Cdi-aspora\u201D, not \u201Cdia-spora\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d73489c3bfa48659d307b126909e3aa\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CDi-aspora\u201D? Well, I pronounce it\u2014\u201Cenvelope\u201D or \u201Con-velope\u201D; \u201Cdi-aspora\u201D or \u201Cdia-spora\u201D. I probably use a Scottish pronunciation. I probably use a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d0cf1168edb4e019313f31c70b38fe3\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Let us talk about the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f6cc02074884f63857e68bf202a684e\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I am keen to do that. The bill sets out the objects of the trust and the powers of the trust board to advance these objects in an Act. Basically, the Arts Centre of Christchurch Trust Bill reflects the local, national, and international heritage significance of the Arts Centre. The bill is a key part of protecting and preserving the Arts Centre of Christchurch for the future, and it sets out the trust\u2019s current objectives in legislation, with the consequence that they can be changed only by amendment to the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EI have been privileged to have a visit from one of the trustees, who wanted to acquaint me with the work they have done. I think that everybody here is familiar with the voluntary efforts of people with experience who sit on trusts and on boards and bring their skills, and this trust is no less deserving of credit for what its members have done. They have worked very, very hard to bring this bill to this point. Because the bill will enable the Arts Centre to modernise its governance arrangements, it sets out the objectives of the trust in legislation and reflects the cultural and heritage significance of the Arts Centre. Perhaps without straying from the bill, Mr Assistant Speaker\u2014without straying from the bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022deb93f520ca042b2816fd272b83db5f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022deb93f520ca042b2816fd272b83db5f1\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: In reply I call the honourable Minister Nicky Wagner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u002231f975f568c34532890da4043b617449\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231f975f568c34532890da4043b617449\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER (National - Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E As we have heard this afternoon in the House, the Arts Centre is a much-beloved part of Christchurch. We all have our family stories of how we have enjoyed it. I remember most of all taking my little sons down to the Arts Centre most weekends to go to the food carts, because we lived only a couple of blocks away from it. I also used to make a regular trip every Christmas to do my Christmas shopping there. The Arts Centre was also a place that we liked to take visitors who came to Christchurch to see. We took them there so they could enjoy the magnificent heritage buildings, reflect on the history of Christchurch, enjoy the arts, perhaps shop for local crafts in the stores and markets, and really enjoy the public space, the entertainment, and the performances that were there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EWhen the 2010 earthquake hit Christchurch, the Arts Centre was damaged. Fortunately, there was some work done on the Arts Centre, including securing one of the turrets that is on Rolleston Avenue, before the 2011 earthquakes, which did further damage. I think we were particularly fortunate to have nobody injured in those earthquakes, because a lot of people spent a lot of time in the Arts Centre. Immediately after the 2011 earthquake, the site had to be closed because of unsafe buildings. As we have heard, the rebuilding is under way. It is a huge restoration project, and it is going very well. I was delighted to see the new Registry Building opened. It has been beautifully restored, it is fully tenanted, and it looks fantastic. The next thing we are looking forward to is the opening of the gymnasium, which will be the home of the Free Theatre and the Arts Circus project. Lots of people are looking forward to that and to coming back into the city to go to their performances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe vision of the future of the Arts Centre is important to Christchurch. It is a vision of a hub for creative entrepreneurs that will support a broad range of cultural, arts, and educational activities. It is a place for all Christchurch people and our visitors to gather, to enjoy a vibrant, creative, and historically important experience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe Arts Centre of Christchurch Trust Bill also seeks to modernise the governance arrangements, as we have heard. It provides for a skills-based board of trustees appointed by an appointments committee, and candidates will be recommended by stakeholders and the broader community. It is essential that the trust has a strong set of skills as it works its way through this restoration project, and also that it has a strong governance structure for the ongoing future. This bill is about protecting the Arts Centre of Christchurch. The Arts Centre is a unique cluster of historic buildings, and it will be a fabulous creative arts centre and cultural hub. It is has been a much-loved public space, as I said. It has been enjoyed in the past by the people of Christchurch and many, many tourists, and once again it will be a fabulous, people-friendly, vibrant space for our city. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Local Government and Environment Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022516462a2cde7463c974aca7f629bdf32\u0022\u003ESummary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d9bfd6e2cd1744b8901a4527ad5d24c5\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f6b07b7be734450cabed732bb042454e\u0022\u003EClause 1  Title\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u0022d90558e995b84a758bcb0c02a14798aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d90558e995b84a758bcb0c02a14798aa\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the clauses to be debated as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00222d05bb1759814c6a92eb87278d4a9ac9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d05bb1759814c6a92eb87278d4a9ac9\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose\u2014that the clauses be taken as one question. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc52b98ab9ec4ababa7b8159022aa641\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc52b98ab9ec4ababa7b8159022aa641\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is an extraordinary pleasure to stand and take a call on the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill in this, the Committee stage. I am told that I can actually take\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c601c823b0004cf883ac3a98f9bb23f8\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: As many as you like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220134e6363a81431784790e90eaf115d3\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014as many calls as I want, and I cannot believe this, because rarely does one have that honour in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022082d13eacc0d439887d4cf5ced1aa859\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: In these final days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225084ca395d2844d79bee2f977263a0ed\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed. As you know, my time here is coming to an end, so I am delighted to take this opportunity to speak on the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill. I have to say that this was something that the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee changed the title of. It changed the title of the bill. Many of the members of the committee are here today, and I have to acknowledge the extraordinarily fine chairmanship of David Bennett and the remarkable support of Chris Auchinvole, Simon O\u2019Connor, and other members of the committee, who looked at this bill long and hard. There was no withdrawal from the scrutiny they gave this bill. What they decided\u2014for very good reason\u2014was that the name of the bill should be changed from the Summary Offences (Possession of Hand-held Lasers) Amendment Bill to the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill. I would like to go into some of the reasons why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287fecf9c07564d208699c8390974e188\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t feel you have to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e12b1a6f80f640fa80f2f8f7649c9a22\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: Some of the reasons can be found on the internet, Mr Twyford. I know, Mr Twyford, that you are a habitu\u00E9 of the internet. You, yourself, were you to peruse the entry for high-power lasers, would be surprised at what you found. What he would find is the extraordinary power of these devices. I noted in the speech I made on the second reading how easy it was to purchase high-power laser pointers for a relatively small price. I am pleased to say that now if one goes on to the internet, one finds warnings to prospective customers from the Ministry of Health and the New Zealand Customs Service outlining to potential buyers of these devices our new customs and health regulations, which cover the importation and supply of these dangerous goods. These new controls on the importation, supply, and acquisition of high-power laser pointers are reinforced in this legislation that we are debating in the Committee of the whole House today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EAs I said, the title of this bill has been changed to purposefully bring in the definition of \u201Chigh-power laser pointer\u201D because what we found at the select committee\u2014and I am sure members of the committee may bring this out, draw it out, and expand upon it a little bit more in their own contribution to the debate\u2014and what we heard was that there was a body of opinion that suggested that devices of 1 milliwatt and less in power were highly unlikely to cause problems. I have to put up my hand and say that when I drafted this bill I personally wanted to include all laser pointers because I was of the opinion that one could still be distracted by a laser beam in one\u2019s eye at whatever strength. But the committee looked at the various arguments for and against this\u2014and I am sure one of my colleagues may bring this out to a greater degree later\u2014and the committee made the decision that it would apply to laser pointers of over 1 milliwatt in power. This is the reason we changed the title of the bill, which we have alluded to before\u2014to make it clear that this Summary Offences (Possession of High-Power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill applies to the possession of high-power laser pointers and makes it an offence to carry such a device in a public place without reasonable excuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EThis bill is another strand in this Government\u2019s efforts to reduce the very real danger\u2014very real\u2014posed by these devices. So just to recap, it is not just this bill; this bill is an adjunct to some excellent legislation that the Government has brought to the scene. The Government has brought in Minister Jo Goodhew and some extraordinarily good legislation. When I get the opportunity I will speak more on that later in this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7f8d0cbc05d41e7863d1bc0fa85a340\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7f8d0cbc05d41e7863d1bc0fa85a340\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in support of the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill. As my colleague Cam Calder, fellow member of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, has said, this bill has had a change of name to limit it, because previously it was too broad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EEssentially, the bill aims to introduce law to govern the possession of hand-held lasers in public places\u2014to have a preventative impact and make it an offence for a person to have in his or her possession a hand-held laser in a public place without a reasonable excuse. This is a safety matter, and that is why we support this bill. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00220ba9cc6980bb422e8f52c44ae0b9ced2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ba9cc6980bb422e8f52c44ae0b9ced2\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak on the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill, which I do think is very important. I would like to congratulate Cam Calder on bringing this through. I know that it is part of a much bigger piece of work that has been done on hand-held lasers, particularly those with high velocity, and the dangers of them. I have actually been on a plane when a laser was pointed at the plane. I was flying\u2014not actually flying the plane myself, but I was a passenger on a plane going into Invercargill. People saw a laser and the pilot came on to say that it was disturbing. I did think that only in New Zealand would it be that other passengers on the plane actually identified the street, right down to the house where the laser had come from. Is that not the beautiful thing about New Zealand\u2014that you actually know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281c90eba635a440e8d0883d1a39fc858\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: And probably who it was as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5cfc0ec7b7b4cd68caea691c07607ce\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: They knew who it was! So I am not kidding you\u2014as we were landing, we were literally having the discussion as to where the house was and what the street was, and people were discussing whether they knew them or not. The pilot had already rung the police to go around there. That is kind of a nice anecdote, but it was a very serious matter, and the pilot took it very seriously. Just having had that rather small personal experience, I think that we do need to take the possession of hand-held lasers really seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EBut I have a question for the member in the chair, Cam Calder. The member was saying something about how strong a laser is. As the member has identified, he is leaving Parliament this year. We will be very, very sad to see him go. I was wondering whether this would affect lasers being used by motivational speakers on whiteboards\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022180180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae3747020a89495a94c6ba0fd86bc89a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! When we are debating in Committee on clauses, we have to relate to the clause. We are on clause 1. I would like the honourable Minister to actually mention the title. We have been going for over 2 minutes. I would actually like to hear the title mentioned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec1e0fd0025449de85238bb9e51cd8f8\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry about that. I think I was getting the title wrong, and that is because I kept saying \u201Cthe possession of hand-held lasers\u201D. I acknowledge that you have changed the title to the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers\u201D Amendment Bill. My question is related to the title, and it is most definitely related to the possession of high-power laser pointers. I note that the member himself said that there was discussion within the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee about how high-powered those laser pointers could be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EMy question also relates to motivational speakers, because they use laser pointers. I am thinking that, after Parliament, the member might have a career on the speaking circuit\u2014I find him incredibly motivational, I have to say\u2014and I wonder whether he thinks that this legislation will affect the laser pointers that may be used in his motivational speaking as he goes around. [Interruption] This is most definitely about the title. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EI accept that the title of the bill was changed at the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee based on the fact that it should be just for high-power lasers. I would just like to know that this bill will not negatively affect what the member is doing when he is on his circuit\u2014and I actually think the member would do a fantastic job\u2014striding across the stage with his laser in his hand, and pointing to his presentation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EI would also be interested if the member would address a few other things around the title. It sounds like it was quite a discussion about lasers within the select committee. I do not understand completely what you mean about the strength of the laser and what that means. Is it about distance? Is it about how far the laser\u2019s light actually shines light as to whether it is considered high powered? Who will actually be testing the lasers to see whether or not they come under the title of high-power laser pointers? Those were the sorts of questions that I had that I would really appreciate some sort of address on. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002226fec962bdf9458d805c3c3eeac52be4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226fec962bdf9458d805c3c3eeac52be4\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E I take a call in this debate on the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill. It is nice to be speaking in a debate about a bill that will surely be the political epitaph of the member in the chair, Cam Calder. I think that is fair to say. I think of him as the Abe Lincoln of the New Zealand Parliament. Never has so much alliteration been delivered by one man in one House of Parliament with so little thanks\u2014with so little thanks. Labour is supporting this bill. We would like to see it passed into law as quickly as possible. For that reason, I commend this bill to the Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022cde085dcbdcc4512b3bf8b107a578676\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cde085dcbdcc4512b3bf8b107a578676\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am going to call\u2014[Interruption] Hang on. This is how it works: if you want a call, you stand up and say \u201CMr Chairman\u201D. All right? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbddacfba7a24a1da1100bcf3235c906\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbddacfba7a24a1da1100bcf3235c906\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Look, it is an extraordinarily, extraordinarily fine point that the honourable Minister Paula Bennett has made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebec5a5189ae498aac4de9911cf67c42\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: But she didn\u2019t make it with a pointer, though.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9784ae2917a4ea8877a9f442c7ff7e1\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: She did not make it with a laser pointer\u2014agreed. But with a laser pointer at 1 milliwatt or less, she could have made it. She could have been addressing her adoring electorate in the west of Auckland\u2014and they are going to be mortified, Minister, when you move on to another group of people who will similarly adore you, but should you be wanting to make a point in one of your debates, you could use a pointer of less than 1 milliwatt. That is what the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee decided, in its wisdom, was a reasonable strength. [Interruption] In fact, Mr Prosser has made a point about these 1 milliwatt lasers, and I am sure he will perhaps talk about this in a contribution that we are all very excited to hear very soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022 data-id=\u0022db16ea8603ca411387123fb616291ad8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db16ea8603ca411387123fb616291ad8\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to rise on behalf of New Zealand First to take a short call to speak to this Committee of the whole House as we debate the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill. New Zealand First has supported this bill from the outset and continues to do so. This is, as I have mentioned in earlier stages of this debate, a fine member\u2019s bill from a fine member. It will be a fitting legacy for Dr Calder as he departs this House at the election and strides out in search of pastures new and, one would hope, in some ways greener.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aa09d11319b4ee19c76ebcd8ddb4548\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c1b4d9cca69403b8c4798278cfdc4e5\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER\u003C/span\u003E: There is nothing Freudian in that. Members will appreciate that time is against us as the election approaches\u2014looming, one might say, like a colossus on the horizon and dominating the attention of members and hopefuls alike, not least because of the not inconsiderable degree of overlap between those two categories. That being the case, I do not intend to consume too much of the remainder of the 50th Parliament in arguing the self-evident merits of a bill that we are happy to support into law. Its passing is of greater import, and I do not believe that delay for its own sake is warranted. Other members who are also in support will agree, I am sure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EHowever, there are two aspects of the bill on which I wish to make very brief comment. The first is the definition of a hand-held laser and the recommendation by the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee that this be changed to \u201Chigh-power laser pointers\u201D, along with changing the name of the bill to the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill. That will bring the bill into line with other legislation, such as the Health (High-power Laser Pointers) Regulations 2013 and the Customs Import Prohibition (High-power Laser Pointers) Order 2013. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThis makes a distinction, and it is an important one. The definition limits the power output of permissible laser points to less than 1 milliwatt, but also specifies that such pointers be designed or intended to be operated while held in the hand. If this distinction were not made, the prohibition could well be made to apply to certain laser devices with a power output greater than 1 milliwatt but which are not designed to be operated while held in one hand, including certain laser sighting devices fitted to certain firearms and perhaps even including one or more such devices owned by myself. I am most satisfied, therefore, by the distinction so made. I am very pleased to report that the New Zealand First Party is also most satisfied and is pleased to be able to support the committee\u2019s recommendation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThe second aspect is the commencement date for the bill, which, as I have alluded to earlier, we do not agree with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d1c345ea4454a52a65c491afdc18499\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. We are on clause 1. We do not talk about the commencement date; that is in clause 2. When we are doing the bill clause by clause, we can talk only about what is in the clauses. It is not a bill where we are coming back to the clauses, which is what we do when we are doing the bill part by part. When we are doing a clause by clause debate, we talk only about the clause\u2014nothing else. We are on the title. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220184d67028214f6aa4bc135435f622e6\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER\u003C/span\u003E: That being the case, I will wrap up what was going to be a fairly short speech anyway by reassuring the Minister Paula Bennett that laser pointers as used by motivational speakers and others such as lecturers usually have a power output of round about 0.05 of a milliwatt, so they fall well into that category of under 1 milliwatt, and neither the Minister nor the sponsor of the bill, Cam Calder, has any cause to be concerned. On that note, I thank you. We support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdbc91782e28496b8f6122d025805b13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdbc91782e28496b8f6122d025805b13\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a short call on this stage of the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill. May I begin by just congratulating Dr Calder on his success in bringing the bill thus far. I would hope, sincerely, that his colleagues do not delay matters to an extent that he is unable to see this bill through all stages before his unfortunate departure from this House in a few weeks\u2019 time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThis bill came to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee in an imperfect condition. As I said at the earlier reading, the select committee did its job well. It made the necessary amendments. In its original form, this bill was inadequate for the task. It has been much improved. Given the improvements that have been made, we are now able graciously to support this bill through further readings. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u002206cddc8222e24550a3a0b2698ee09517\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206cddc8222e24550a3a0b2698ee09517\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to join with colleagues across the Chamber\u2014it appears to be, to put not too fine a point on it\u2014to acknowledge Cam and the work that he has done to put the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAs we begin to look at clause 1 and around the title, I think it is appropriate to thank you again, Cam, for the work that you did. I think it is an honour to come through this House and to be able to put your name to a piece of legislation. As things change, just like clause 1 has changed, you have brought about changes through this bill, and others in the Committee have acknowledged the work that has happened around this bill. It came in with a variety of intentions, and through the process has been refined down. The best and foremost example is clause 1, the title. As it notes, \u201Cthis Act is the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Act 2012.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWhat people at home may not know is there has been a simple change. It may initially seem semantic, but what we have changed in clause 1 are the words \u201Chand-held lasers\u201D to \u201Chigh-power laser pointers\u201D. The member in the chair, Dr Cam Calder, has noted this was not necessarily his preference, first and foremost. I think for most of us in the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, working under the tutelage and support of David Bennett, we all sort of just went with that colloquial notion of a hand-held laser.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a4b72cb4b76413c83ea1f10359d19f6\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Tutelage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c31477a716d49eb928caeee2f240ee5\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Tutelage. Well, newer members have to accept the tutelage of older members; some would also say \u201Cwiser\u201D. What we are drawing out here around clause 1 is that we did start with the title. We started with a title that reflected a colloquial understanding. We all would accept it is a hand-held laser\u2014something that we would point. I am thinking my colleague the Hon Maurice Williamson would be right into the technology. No, he is not so sure. But the key was that we were working within that colloquial expression of a hand-held laser, and we have moved now to a high-power laser pointer. There is still some concern, and there has been, even though we have reported back to the House around this clause 1, that we may have missed some elements, but what we wanted to do by redefining the title, moving into this clause 1, was to point towards\u2014no pun intended\u2014the Customs Import Prohibition (High-power Laser Pointers) Order of 2013. This customs import prohibition around the high-power laser pointers is, I suppose, the mechanism, the conduit, and the basis of understanding of why we made this titular change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e01338e47fe405f991ec6eb1249825f\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Titular!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feb1bf2834404fed89a465965877f3ba\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: It may help the Committee. It certainly has helped me to understand a little bit. Titular change\u2014yes, that is right: a good Latin derivative there, but we will not get into that, and into declensions and conjugations, even though it is to do with titles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217a80e2706374ad0a08a7d2cf15ce33c\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not Spanish, then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223e43c135cfd4bd7980e34be7a5e5d9c\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: It is not Spanish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo what we are saying here is around the title moving from hand-held to high-power lasers. That is linking us into the Customs Import Prohibition (High-power Laser Pointers) Order of 2013. It starts, first and foremost, with the fact that the Director-General of Health, in his or her opinion, understands that this device is commonly understood to be a laser pointer. It also refers\u2014and there is an \u201Cand\u201D here\u2014that it is a battery-operated object. [Interruption] Well, you can immediately see why we are moving away from the hand-held nature. We are trying to be a little bit broader here with the title of the bill\u2014that it is a high-power laser pointer. I mean, not for a moment am I suggesting that we are going to be taking a modern theodolite and shining it at a plane in the way that the Hon Paula Bennett experienced down in Invercargill, but we are trying to say that there are lasers that could be of detriment to aviation that are more than simply hand held.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EReturning to the customs import prohibition, which clause 1 links to, eventually, it is intended to be used by the hand. That is another element within the customs import order. It has a coherent beam. I think this is something that the Minister Paula Bennett was referring to and had asked for clarification about from the member in the chair. I would welcome that as well, actually. It has to be a coherent beam. I suppose it is the nature of the laser, hand-held or high-power, that it has a coherent beam. We know about the milliwatts, Dr Calder, but we would also want to know whether there is an element of distance that is required here, and where the coherence begins to break up. It may be too much within the physical realms, but who knows? And 1 milliwatt\u2014this is one of the critical reasons we did make the change there in clause 1 around the title to say it was a high-power laser. By referring to the customs order, we were referring to this 1 milliwatt of power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u0022925aa4eeb7274c36a9f44f4ec286fc37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022925aa4eeb7274c36a9f44f4ec286fc37\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u0022dad429f7cfc043dd91f3c73b8ee24e31\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dad429f7cfc043dd91f3c73b8ee24e31\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to be able to take my first call on this first clause of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d77bbff6bc2044288988f4d930582432\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a3ad96173884694b6c1316025410eea\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014absolutely\u2014the Summary Offences (Possession of Hand-held Lasers) Amendment Bill. Can I just join others in acknowledging the work of Dr Cam Calder. There has been a degree of frivolity throughout the progress of the bill, Dr Calder, but of course we have all acknowledged the seriousness of offending or incidents that can occur as a result of people misusing these instruments. The Hon Paula Bennett has alluded to it. Certainly we have seen, even in warring nations, the use of hand-held lasers to attempt to take down aircraft and to successfully take down aircraft. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThe crux of the title discussion throughout the course of this bill, and fundamental to this clause, was the change from it being simply a hand-held laser to a high-power laser of 1 milliwatt, which the previous speaker alluded to. There was much conjecture and discussion on this at the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee and, indeed, officials and the police provided some good advice. I think we have landed in the right space in terms of the redefinition of the title, but also the fact that we are talking about high-power lasers as opposed to simply hand-held lasers, which may be used in a completely inane domestic area and not present the same risk. I guess if we look at the difference between a hand-held laser and a high-power laser, one could argue\u2014and I think that Dr Calder certainly did successfully bring this point of discussion to the table\u2014that it is no different the summary offences possession of a knife. We do not talk about the knife being of a certain length; it is simply the fact that it is a knife, which, used inappropriately or in an offensive manner, can cause grievous harm. One can do that with a very short knife in the same way as one can do it with a very long knife. So one could argue, in terms of the redefining, and as it relates to the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d44c59edf964eba8ab52eb49e7f841f\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: What about a two-edged knife?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2dcea06665e4cd7a2c9a29f5b526fee\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, what was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e75c15f63d04b4288fe1e08f6775f21\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: What about a two-edged knife?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0ffa97e2f8f4c7fbc086c590d35b266\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Double-edged? It is a double-edged sword, indeed. But we jest. Coming back to the point that we arrived at the select committee, which is now obviously highly relevant to clause 1, in terms of the title, the decision was made\u2014and it is probably, on balance, a wise decision\u2014that high-power would be over 1 milliwatt, and that is, I guess, given where the substantive damage is likely to be done or the risk is actually arrived at, probably a fair landing place. Therefore, the Act, when it comes into force, will be known as the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Act. I think that, on balance, Dr Calder accepts that that is fair. It will still achieve its purpose and ultimately that is something that we can discuss later in the passage of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EI think the title certainly reflects accurately what it is that this legislation aims to achieve\u2014that it is high-powered lasers over 1 milliwatt that are likely to cause the most risk to those travelling in vehicles and by air that we are concerned about, if someone is stupid enough to use them in a malicious way. Of course, that will, I am sure, ensure that university lecturers all around the country will feel that they can go about their business without fear of being unfairly targeted by this legislation. The Summary Offences (Possession of Hand-held Lasers) Amendment Bill will be amended as discussed to incorporate high-power laser pointers. In that, I think that Dr Calder should be congratulated on his pragmatic efforts to ensure that he did not lose the essence of what he was trying to achieve legislatively and that this bill will achieve its purpose in that sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u002213ade85bbbd040f990b1be851af9e1e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213ade85bbbd040f990b1be851af9e1e9\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I have been asked a couple of questions during the course of this debate that I would like to take the opportunity to answer, and one of them was from the honourable Minister to my right, Paula Bennett, who queried the distance that one of these laser pointers can reach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222dceddcecdf44ebae1deaa63e5fe79f\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re high-powered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022214daeb53cc347829881233e33bdb396\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, well, let us just start with low power lasers\u2014and I  thought the honourable member Richard Prosser may address it\u2014but even those of 1 milliwatt or less, which are by definition low-powered laser pointers, can actually go several hundred metres. I remember going to a market in a country from whence many of these laser pointers, both low and high-powered, come. Some of those laser pointers were low-powered, some were high-powered, but the majority, it has to be said, were of the nature of those that you would find on the end of a key ring, so they were not large, and they were not more than 1 milliwatt. They were extending beams across the night sky that were several hundred metres in length. That is why I was initially concerned by the fact that even these were in the public domain and were able to be used. But as we have alluded to, many perceptive and erudite members of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, on both sides of the Chamber, have reflected upon the in-depth discussion that took place within the select committee walls to try to deal with it. I see that through doing that we have the support of the Greens. It has to be said that that support\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222af485275eb84606bb724920375fcb42\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s rare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022785d030334774ebcb0a10231254d6448\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014is quite rare, but it is very much appreciated. In fact, I think I am right in assuming that we have support across the Committee on this particular bill. Let us face it: this bill\u2014what will be titled the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill\u2014actually makes all of us safer. It probably makes our wives, girlfriends, grandparents, and children significantly happier to think that the planes that we are travelling in, as we all have to do, to come to this House, are not going to be assailed by\u2014or are less likely to be assailed by, it has to be said, because no legislation stops anything happening\u2014the dangers of having a pilot blinded by these devices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EI would like to come back to a point that the honourable Minister Paula Bennett further asked. She asked how far some of these high-powered laser pointers can extend. It is absolutely staggering that you can go on the internet at the moment and you can purchase, for under US$300\u2014and given our exchange rate, that is not a lot of money\u2014high-powered laser pointers of over 2,000 milliwatts of power, which have a range of how far?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8c69f98ac2549e4a616265fd4626de6\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Twenty kilometres.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4c40f31932d4657926cd01eb12794a9\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: Twenty kilometres?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279b6a91a600c46d695ced6859b37b657\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Fifty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022361375bb9e83490e9a3f07353ecdf520\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: Fifty kilometres? They have a range of 60 miles. It is staggering\u2014it is staggering. These are the devices that, under this bill, when you are walking along the road, you are not allowed to have in your pocket, because\u2014why the hell would you need it? Nobody has got any reason\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022085bc20871fa47e08f4fd29e50bb381a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I say this for the third time\u2014when we are on clauses, we must relate the debate to the clause. We are on the title clause. I ask the member to come back to the title clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcf5cade19044a358256e25dc267328a\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chairman. The point I was making is that that is one mother of a high-power laser pointer\u2014a high-power laser pointer, which is in the proposed amended title of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EJust to recap, this bill is not just standing alone. The Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Act will be part of a basket or cable of measures to reduce the chances of these devices being misused. I mentioned Jo Goodhew, who is an excellent Minister. The honourable Associate Minister of Health brought in the Customs Import Prohibition (High-power Laser Pointers) Order 2013, which restricts the importation of these high-power laser pointers. This is an extraordinarily useful regulation because it means that one can import high-power laser pointers\u2014which is in the title of this bill\u2014only if a person has consent to do so. Anyone who commits an offence under this regulation is liable to be fined. How much do you think that fine is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022751526dfd315493d89c521a959a63092\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I ask whether, under Standing Order 108, \u201CRelevancy\u201D, the issue to do with where the member in the chair is now going is relevant to this bill\u2014and also Standing Order 108(2), about repetition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022337b3e116da94ec7bd46b11b7a2ff839\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. Three times I have mentioned that when we are on clauses, you must relate the subject of the debate to the clause. This is not a peroration of what is in the total bill; this is specifically about the clause. I ask the member to come back to clause 1, which is the title.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272fec961099c428592a288cad1a9d4c0\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chairman. The title of this bill has been altered, as we have heard, by the select committee, and that was done for very good reason. I am actually trying to keep right on the topic of this because I think it is very important that we make this point, and please tell me, Mr Chairman, if I am straying. But, I mean, what we see with the possession of high-power laser pointers, as in the title of the bill, is how necessary the bill is, and I was bringing this point up. When you go on the net the fearsome nature of these high-power laser pointers becomes immediately obvious. Not only are they available but they are inexpensive. You could imagine a paper boy saving his money to purchase one of these things\u2014one of these high-power laser pointers\u2014which is in the title of this excellent bill that we are debating in the Chamber at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EMay I mention a quote about these high-power laser pointers in this debate, because what one can read on the internet is that one could purchase the Arctic, which is a model of high-power laser pointer that is outlined and is covered by the title of this bill. \u201CA real life lightsaber\u201D, was the quote from CNN, and another one was \u201CThe perfect gift for the supervillain\u201D\u2014we are talking about these high-power laser pointers. This is the type of device that this bill, as its title denotes, is designed to make it extraordinarily difficult for anybody in our country, in New Zealand, to purchase over the internet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EThese are high-power laser pointers and, as a result of the select committee\u2019s work on the bill it now covers these particular devices. I think it is extraordinarily important that we do that because until now anybody could have brought them into the country. With the work that has been done by the Minister, as I said, in the supporting legislation about importation and sales and acquisition, this will be an extraordinarily useful addition to our legislative armamentarium to keep New Zealanders safer. They will be safer from the high-power laser pointers, which hitherto have been so readily available, by this legislation\u2019s passage. It will make that fact that you cannot walk down the road, the boardwalk, the sidewalk, or the beach with one of these stuffed down your boardshorts. Why would you want to do that? I do not know. I do not know, myself, but the high-power laser pointer amendment bill will stop that from happening without reasonable excuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EIt is possible that some people will be able to have a reason to have one. University lecturers have been mentioned in this debate. So, presumably, if a university lecturer wanted to stuff one down his boardshorts and go to a lecture, he could, but only with permission. Without permission\u2014without reasonable excuse\u2014the title of this bill, the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Lasers Pointers) Amendment Bill, would make it impossible for anybody, without reasonable excuse, to walk down the road with one. They might be going out in their dressing gown at night, and they might have it in the pocket of their dressing gown, but they cannot do that under this bill. The high-power laser pointer amendment bill means that you cannot walk around in a public place, whether you are in your boardshorts or in your dressing gown, with a high-power laser pointer in your possession without reasonable excuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u002277d2b4d886f749958a7642f23fbb9655\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277d2b4d886f749958a7642f23fbb9655\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00223e00319fe9b047a7b76ec66f54520a45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e00319fe9b047a7b76ec66f54520a45\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the question be now put\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022198e4a44e6284b6785249e4b894623ec\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The member has moved that the question be now put, but that member has already done that previously in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aba9d5dc0af843128c2255f698c38e31\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is not a point of order. The question is that the question be now put\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298c5a7af4cdb47c89904f9cebff97169\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: She did the closure already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287ba1105673d4f44959db95a1368d466\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: She can move a closure motion\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aac232e1170f400ebc6ded3a573c43cf\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: But she has already done it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb4ce8cdb3104c2c930169334f1a0ff3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I know, and she can do it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002258a35be8828c45d3a64457f78634ed53\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote  was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022536f638bb14942bb97340046080ab5c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022536f638bb14942bb97340046080ab5c5\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The debate on clause 1 will continue, but I want to make it very clear\u2014or I will terminate speeches in future\u2014that when we are on the clauses, we will stick to the clauses, or I will terminate the speaker\u2019s call. [Interruption] I am still on my feet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaca821506774a7c9b07ed532e9d849a\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s hard to tell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bab0daea2911423eb8eef60e63431c75\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am standing. The other thing is that with closure motions, a member can move more than one closure motion. They can, but that is treated as a call. They cannot take more than four calls in a debate. So the member from the Labour Party who moved the closure motion was quite proper, and that is why I accepted the closure motion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc6c2f42a0834c45a56320427a6a3196\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c2f42a0834c45a56320427a6a3196\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I have certainly listened to and heard your guidance on the issue of speaking to clause 1, Mr Chair, and I do thank you for the call because there is just one small point on the issue of the title that I did want to raise. I was not a member of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, which has done good work on this bill, but I have been here and listened to the whole of the debate on clause 1, and I think there is just one point that is important to get on record. I have listened\u2014and I have found it quite interesting, actually\u2014to the debate around the reasons for the change in the title clause. I have heard Dr Cam Calder talk very eloquently, I thought, and very informatively about why that change in the title clause to include the words \u201CHigh-power\u201D was important, and I found that very helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EBut the piece that I do not think has been talked about in this debate at all, and it is the one thing that I just wanted to pick up on, was that the select committee has actually recommended two changes to the title clause. The first is to add in the words \u201CHigh-power\u201D, which I think is very, very important. We have heard a lot about that and I thank the members for their contributions. The other change to the title clause that was recommended by the select committee\u2014which I do not think has been discussed anywhere as yet in this debate, and it is why I was so anxious to take the call\u2014was the addition of the word \u201CPointers\u201D. I think that this is something that we have not really dealt with in this debate, and I did want to contribute just briefly on that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EIt is important that when we describe this legislation and we attribute a title to this amendment bill, we make a very clear distinction between the type of harm that the bill is definitely intended to capture\u2014which is what we have heard discussed in terms of pointing at planes, which Paula Bennett discussed, and the outrageous examples of devices that the member in charge of the bill, Cam Calder, has talked about\u2014and, of course, the other very real but very legitimate and valid uses of high-power lasers. High-power lasers are prevalent in many, many aspects of society and are perfectly legitimate. It has not, in this entire debate, been highlighted that the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee has made, I think, a very important change to the title clause, when it added in specifically the word \u201CPointers\u2019, because originally the bill was titled \u201CPossession of Hand-held Lasers\u201D. It added, obviously, the change to make them \u201CHigh-power\u201D but also, very, very importantly, highlighted that what we are talking about is laser pointers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThat is a critical change. I appreciate that it is just one word, but it makes a very clear delineation between the absolutely legitimate and valid use of legitimate high-power lasers of other forms. So there are laser cutters. There are obviously a lot of high-power lasers used in medical technology, and we certainly would not want for one minute to suggest that this bill was in any way criminalising the use or possession of those devices. So I particularly wanted to highlight that aspect to the change in the title clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI think, Mr Chair, you will allow me to also take my opportunity, as other members have done, to congratulate Dr Calder on this bill, because it is an important bill. It is a bill that really reflects his contribution as a member, which from day one has always been to be passionate about the public safety of New Zealanders, and public safety will be enhanced by ensuring that we have legislation that is focused on high-power laser pointers. I do think it is important that when we are crafting legislation we are very careful to delineate very carefully, particularly when we are criminalising or ascribing the status of a summary offence, so that we do not put more into that catch than should really be there. We certainly would not want New Zealanders to get the wrong idea about the impact of the legislation from the title clause. So getting that defined properly is very important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI wanted to particularly commend the select committee for picking that up. I know that that was always Dr Calder\u2019s intention with the legislation\u2014that it certainly would not catch high-power lasers that were not pointers and that were of, as I say, medical or cutting or other technologies\u2014but I think, as I said, that having listened to the whole of the debate, it is not a point that had been mentioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI do absolutely endorse the comments that have been made about needing to focus very much on clause 1. To ensure that, we now have a piece of legislation that is properly, I believe, titled Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Lasers Pointers) Amendment Bill. It is a small change, I accept that, but, actually, as is often the case in legislation, the use of precise words and precise titles is a critical part of ensuring that our legislation is as certain and as clear-cut as we would want it to be. We all know the intention of the bill was always to do that, but intention is only of limited use if we cannot be clear in our language. As a lawyer before I came into this House, I can tell you firsthand that if you are not incredibly careful in words like those in the title, to ensure that they do properly capture the meaning and the essence of the legislation, then problems can ensue. So I did think it was worth highlighting and getting into the record that the addition of the word \u201CPointers\u201D is deliberate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022dba07300e7f94e1c9329095d9c178b32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dba07300e7f94e1c9329095d9c178b32\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022537a7fab8e2c48a487292ac9899b17cc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote  was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0e527da9f034338b4df868ca4b25d11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0e527da9f034338b4df868ca4b25d11\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Basically, I have one point to make, concentrating very much on the title of the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill, as you have made it very plain we must do so, and that is all I want to do, so I might not even take the full time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EBut if we have a look at the title\u2014I have had a careful look at it\u2014there are, I think, 15 words in it, although one of them is hyphenated, so I do not know whether a hyphenated word is one word or two words. But of the 15, most of them make sense. Most of them follow, and we have heard the reasons for the change and everything else. So I take it, and really it is a question for the author of the bill, that it is agreed to change the title of the bill, and it was unanimously agreed, to \u201Chigh-power laser pointers\u201D from \u201Chand-held lasers\u201D, as the Minister for the Environment, the Hon Amy Adams, has just been speaking about. The thing we did not change, though, and this is my question to the author\u2014it might be a technical point, but we still have it described in clause 1 as \u201CAmendment Act 2012\u201D. Is it to remain like that, or is that a change we should make at this stage? Because it was not an Act in 2012 at all. We have passed 2012; we are into 2014. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EI had hoped that Mr Twyford might spot this, because, you know, when we were in Opposition, it was sort of our part of the contribution to get things absolutely right. But, no\u2014complete disregard for correctness other than in pronunciation, where he makes a fuss. So I could say that as far as the title is concerned, I was disappointed in the lack of diligence on the part of the Opposition. I am glad to have noticed it myself. I think every member on this side is aware of it. So it is something that we would invite the author of the bill, Dr Cam Calder, who we all agree has done a really good job on this particular one, to address and to give us some form of reassurance and technical explanation. To make sure that there is time for that, I think I will just make that particular point in the hope that the bill\u2019s author will be able to guide us appropriately. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223254803602f64096af4b03cec9f4a1c5\u0022\u003EClause 2  Commencement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002268f31a53921e43ab936b68e8a1a024bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268f31a53921e43ab936b68e8a1a024bf\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to speak on this bill, the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Bill, especially in regard to clause 2, which is the commencement date of the bill. Clause 2 states that \u201CThis Act comes into force on the day that is 28 days after the date on which it receives the Royal assent.\u201D That clause was somethinpg that was also well debated within the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. I remember we spent much time on that date because there were a number of alternative views on what that date should be, that is, being the number of days before the commencement date would come into force. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EBut just before I progress on to those, I want to acknowledge the fine work of Dr Cam Calder in bringing this bill before this House. I think the Hon Paula Bennett indicated the nature of the issue that can be involved in such situations, and it takes somebody with Dr Calder\u2019s great desire to see results-based politics and also his capacity to undertake the level of research and dedication that is needed to bring a bill of this fortitude to the House. So well done, Dr Cam Calder, a very valuable member of the committee. All members of the committee will miss his presence, but it is a very, very important bill that he has done today and it is something that we commend him for bringing in front of this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EBut going back to the commencement date\u2014[Interruption]\u2014when we have the commencement, it says \u201C28 days after the date on which it receives the Royal assent.\u201D I am sorry, Mr Chair. Did I not talk about Dr Calder long enough? Do you want me to go back to him? But no, the commencement date is 28 days. Some of you may ask, well, why is that so important. Well, that is the number of days in the month of February, which is important, but it also is the time that we looked at to be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aac160ada6c54679b63f472de8d8effc\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s that got to do with the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022540ca0d333ef4996823f959889deb01c\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Is that the New Zealand First member over there, the lone member of New Zealand First in this debate? It would be great to have a call from her, but it might be more difficult than she can manage at this stage of the afternoon, I think. Dr Calder actually wanted to bring it forward earlier. He wanted a commencement date immediately, and being such a fine and astute committee that we are, we look at prudence as something that we also value in our committee. So the question the committee members had to decide was whether we bring it forward and immediately, as the member who was bringing in the bill thought was the best option, or whether we look at having a little bit of prudence there just to see whether the 28 days would be appropriate. The committee members in their entirety\u2014and Dr Calder was part of this\u2014decided that, yes, the 28 days would be a good time period. It could have actually been a longer time period. It could have been 3 months and that would have been just too long for this bill to have achieved its purpose, but 28 days was a good balance. It was not something that was immediate, but it was something that gave some time for it to work through. The question you may ask is why you would want to give that time for it to work through, and that was something that we had advice from the officials on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a10883c38d3945b192f1833646cc21a1\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The House is in Committee for consideration of the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill. It is resumed. Before the dinner break we were debating clause 2. David Bennett at that time had the call, and he has got just over 1\u00BD minutes, should he wish to avail himself of the opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bb1d84e8b7641f1976ebd27298c29cf\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I think I will need more 1\u00BD minutes, just as a warning to the Chair, because this is a very important section of the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill. It was part of\u2014is this all right, Carol? Are you all right? It was something that was debated long and hard in the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, and that was around the commencement date. I will read it to give a summary to people who may have missed it just before the dinner suspension: \u201CThis Act comes into force on the day that is 28 days after the date on which it receives the Royal assent.\u201D As everyone can see, that is very clear. It is 28 days afterwards. That is the month of February, effectively, for those who look to do it on dates\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243c21a7059ea49ca9fdab508a57904fe\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: Except in a leap year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab9356a3b5e149b196ab9a0ae89e3f78\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Except in a leap year. Yes, Mr Sabin from the north is very correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223aedc7caca48444295cab97b337c50ec\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: My wife\u2019s birthday\u2014February.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022470ca0eabc644d2eb3b9adc3d85aa51c\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: And it is also the Hon Todd McClay\u2019s wife\u2019s birthday, and we would like to see that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2f50f0a897946cd815151b8f2a517b0\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Relevance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff21119674ad467cabf4ac4b7569fea6\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The relevance is that 28 days is the period that the commencement comes in after it receives the Royal\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ebf9baf1b6f4681807257cd43bf4753\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: The point being that if I miss her birthday, it is a summary offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f69cfa756df4dbe85eabc33b0b42b6b\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and as Mr McClay says, if he misses her birthday, it is a summary offence. He would get more than a hand-held laser, I am sure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229220e58302614cd4a3fe22de61a2f9e5\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: If it was my birthday I would get a Taser.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d45817254a745f4a519cebc32892455\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: You would get a Taser. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EBut effectively what the select committee had to look at was that timing. As I mentioned earlier, the mover of this bill, Dr Cam Calder, who was bringing this bill forward, sought a date for it to come into force immediately on achieving the Royal assent. The choice of the select committee was whether we do it immediately or whether we do it on some other date that would be seen as prudent and reasonable. The select committee came to the decision that 28 days was the reasonable approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225351a8fd068140e886145862459f8a2a\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: But why was that? Interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cadc48f4b64b44258ad2cae3f469c7c1\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is very interesting, actually, because we did receive advice that it should be longer than 28 days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218e74a49fe954436be8413653355874d\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, and why was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc0df2583e264eea8527cce617c654bd\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I will come to that. That might need another 5 minutes when I come to that bit. So the options were basically either longer than 28 days or the immediacy of it, and in the end we decided as a prudent select committee that we would settle on a month, and so 28 days was the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cfcfd851ddf43dfb953911bdb4e6d47\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: Far too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0d6f4c25b1643fca697f29f6a20dff5\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: As Dr Calder says, far too long, and I can understand his desire to see this piece of work enforced as soon as possible, because who would know when the next incident could occur? If it occurs within those 28 days, are we actually putting people\u2019s lives at risk?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e487fe9ef674a779a7b12e082c6be7f\u0022\u003EScott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: How can you be sure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022309928680dde4595a71aaa3c8566cdf9\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: We cannot be sure. That was the debate that concerned the select committee for much of its time. It was a very serious issue, because we take a risk that in those 28 days there may be an incident, and that is the nature of it. Mr Macindoe, the very good member from Hamilton West, has just returned from overseas and come back to New Zealand. Good to see you here, Tim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a41879031034fb4a380227f310bd8aa\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: It will be man love soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ebc4750228741fdb4370b7b51e60388\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. When we considered that period of time, the question was why not go immediately and why have a period of time. It was to give a sense of understanding and education to the community around this change in legislation. There would be some people who do have hand-held lasers, and they may not be aware that suddenly they had come under the rules. For education purposes, for those legitimate people in the community who may hold these products\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f61051847d344198c303ddeb4ff7bfa\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure most people are legitimate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aae9a59ee0194de6b349ef2ce7e39fcb\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014who hold these products, I said, Tim\u2014and who were in a state that they may have been engaging with them, they would need to know that there was a period of time in which they would then become aware that the laser itself was the issue. So the reason is to give a period of time for education so that people are well aware of the circumstances of the bill. It was felt that if there was an immediate commencement, there would be the potential that there would be some people who did not receive that notification. We did not want to put anybody at risk, but at the same time we had to balance that. If we left it for 3 months, that was a long period of time where there could have been another incident within that period. That was the difficult balance that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022defa517e696a4343abbe6ef056869d75\u0022\u003EScott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: The wisdom of Solomon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a5d905a29c54c3d938f86cdd96195fc\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: And it was the wisdom of Solomon and that is because we have such a fine select committee there. I am surrounded by good committee members in front of me here, who spent hours poring over these finer details, and took a very considered approach, in the end, to this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIf we go back to clause 2, that is why we settled on 28 days. It is a date that would achieve the purpose of being relatively quick after the passing of this bill so that it is not a period of time that is too long. But it is also a period of time that enables people to be notified and made aware of the consequences of this very fine piece of legislation. In essence, that is the dilemma that the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee found itself in, and the decision was made to stick with 28 days. We find that is a very good balance and will achieve the purposes for all concerned. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u00224ee151447bad4461998d1783c6225dd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ee151447bad4461998d1783c6225dd8\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E It appears I have blown the Opposition away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227073f7ab626b41e79aa1d261b0aa58b2\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve lasered them out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022019208c87e4248dda4cc615ba13a0d55\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Lasered them out, indeed. I just want to pick up where my good Transport and Industrial Relations Committee chairman, David Bennett, has left off on this clause 2, the commencement date, because there was a fair degree of conjecture and I am hoping that the member Dr Cam Calder will actually take a call and advise as to why he was willing to concede that a date of 28 days after the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill received the Royal assent was satisfactory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003ESuffice it to say that there are a number of challenges in terms of this bill becoming an Act and going live as legislation because these devices are actually quite commonly held in the possession of people around the country. In fact, there needs to be some degree of education and some degree of notification for those people that the possession of the high-power hand-held laser pointers would constitute an offence. It is quite right that we do not want to catch people on the hop. I think it also prevents stockpiling. Dr Calder may want to comment on that, but the last thing we want is people, of course, stockpiling if they are given too much lead-in time. So it is all about getting the balance. Imagine someone having an enormous stockpile of hand-held high-power laser pointers that could be weapons of mass destruction in that context. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EI am quite confident that the member Dr Calder will be elucidating for the public as to the live commencement date of this bill, once enacted, being 28 days after the Royal assent, because it is incumbent on him as a responsible member of Parliament to inform the public that this legislative change has occurred and that the malicious behaviour of individuals who seem to find some sort of entertainment in this use of these high-power laser pointers has come to an end. I think that gives Dr Calder fair time to inform people. Of course, the police did allude to the fact that they would need some time from an enforcement point of view to actually see where this thing lands, because although it is not a punitive bill\u2014and I am sure Dr Calder will inform us all when he takes his next call on this\u2014it is very much about prevention rather than taking a punitive approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EBut the point is that the enforcement agency, the police, obviously have a role in that and there were some quite considered comments given by the police through the select committee submission process. So that is why when we wrestled with this point in the select committee, and we did wrestle with this point\u2014I think it was this point, as well as whether or not the title should include \u201Chigh power\u201D. Those were the two points that caused the select committee some contention. But in terms of the commencement date, I know that Dr Calder wanted to see this go live as soon as humanly possible. I know he was concerned that there was a likelihood that people would stockpile these things and there could be some sort of travesty in the fact that people would take liberties that they should not take. But I think we have landed in the right space with this. The 28 days simply provides ample opportunity, firstly, for the police to be fully informed of this law change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EIn all seriousness, these things will take down an aircraft, they will blind a driver, and they have been used for those two purposes. I suspect that the police will be quite happy to go out and find someone to make an example of, if they choose to disobey what will be a very sound piece of preventive legislation. But no doubt there will be some who will choose to challenge it. I think the police need that little bit of time to get themselves across that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3aa1a94a7a74f559c2640c4be9d0444\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: Relevancy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfe49d75083e4d7e8195a95e01ab10d1\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, you want me to talk about the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022144a20a5526f4f9ba485571527ecf6d7\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: Commencement date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286cf3bc3c8f04c74b73d48661a7fa45b\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: I am talking about the commencement date. The member is very, very helpful\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022351df0ad2f8943aba442fc7a7ea30bf5\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They are not listening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f83c3e63ae634379af5765e26496845d\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: They are not listening. The reason I am saying the commencement date\u201428 days after the Royal assent\u2014is the importance of the police having the opportunity to get themselves across this legislation in due course. OK? Is it not funny when the boot is on the other foot? Is it not hilarious when the boot is on the other foot? But that 28 days is about balance. If there is one thing I will say about Dr Cam Calder, it is that he is a man who sees the perspectives from all angles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d113a4692d524bf0b971da37794464ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d113a4692d524bf0b971da37794464ac\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E This is a very important point that my colleagues have actually aired, at some length, in the Chamber. It is quite true to say that I was somewhat saddened by the decision the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee made because, as has been alluded to by my honourable colleague Mr Mike Sabin, I wanted this legislation, the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill, to come into effect as soon as possible. I make no apologies for that. As we have heard, this clause provides for all provisions in the bill to come into force on the day after the Act receives the Royal assent. That is what we thought. That is what I wanted to happen. But after we had considered it as a committee, when does it come into force, Mr Auchinvole?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209e39203c69c45af87a9b2b11a88b0d8\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: 28 days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270b561763b1e4865a2a169c98c551b5a\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: Twenty-eight days after receiving the Royal assent. So I asked this question of the committee members. I said: \u201CWhat possible reason is there for delaying the implementation of such an important bill?\u201D. We have heard some of the arguments. I have to pay credit to Carol Beaumont, who is part of the committee and contributed to this debate. In fact, we had a committee made up of members from all sides of the House, and it was a collegial committee. The upshot of the combined wisdom was that, for a number of reasons, 28 days after receiving the Royal assent was preferable to the instant implementation that I was hoping for. The committee recommended that clause 2 be amended to provide that additional time after the Act received the Royal assent before the provisions of the bill came into force. We have heard that this is to give people time to understand about the law having changed. But I would submit to you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223819cdc8caf7455b81eaf2f33eb6e253\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222edb2b42990c4ee898e9c4711716c8ae\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. But I have a lingering bit of schadenfreude here, because I just think\u2014as you raised the very valid point yourself\u2014what if an act occurs in the interim period between the Act receiving the Royal assent and coming into law? We hope that people will realise, as word gets out about the passage of this bill, and the commencement date being what it is, that we have had some publicity from the Airline Pilots\u2019 Association recently, calling for a bill just like this in light of a recent incident that occurred just a few weeks ago. That 28 days is what we are left with. I just hope that that 28 days will not be a time where people take advantage of the fact that the bill has not come into law and they pick up their high-power laser pointer, put it in their pocket, and march off out into a public space. There is actually no reason for that. The commencement date of 28 days after the Act receiving the Royal assent means there is going to be a 4-week period where that could occur. I have just done my sums. It is an interesting situation. My valedictory speech is timetabled for 23 July at 4 o\u2019clock.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277a6666fe36a478db542c7aadc461ab3\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Can we book seats now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f37f24e999f84801ab34a2ba38bc0a2b\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: You can secure your seat now, Mr Twyford. I will look forward to seeing you there. The interesting thing is that this bill is likely to go for its third reading after I have given my valedictory speech. I might be in the position of not being able to deliver a third reading speech on my own bill, but such is the way that Parliament works. Really, it is a small price to pay for the chance to get this bill through the House whilst I am still a member of this House. It is a huge privilege to stand here\u2014I must say, it is a great privilege to stand here\u2014and be able to speak in the House without getting dark looks from the whip, saying to stop speaking. It is very rare that that actually happens. How many of us sitting here tonight can say that they have had that privilege?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c583810a98f49138ae49c6e106a000d\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: What an aspersion against my good character.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269b38b73a3e64323a0f9344815d63ee6\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: You are a very fine whip, it has to be said. It has to be said that you are a very fine whip, and you are doing remarkably well for a man who has just come back from attending a high-level Westminster seminar in the United Kingdom, representing our Parliament in the best possible way that you have done. The commencement is 28 days after receiving the Royal assent. If I give my speech on 23 July, then it is likely to receive the Royal assent on 25 July, because normally the bills go to the Governor-General to be signed, and it is possible he might be in town and he could give the Royal assent on 25 July. So 28 days from that period\u2014have we got any people in the House who are good at mental arithmetic? It is all right. I have done the sums. It is actually 22 August. So I wonder. I pose this question: do you think that it is likely that this date\u201428 days after the Royal assent, which we are suggesting is a putative 22 August\u2014when you google what happened on 22 August sometime in the future, could come up as the day the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill passed? Could that be? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EIt is very interesting to see what did happen on 22 August historically. Remember that 22 August is the putative commencement date for this bill. It is the putative, possible commencement date when the Governor-General, His Excellency Lieutenant General Rt Hon Sir Jerry Mateparae, signs the bill and effectively it gains Royal assent. I am posing the question to the Committee that in years to come could it be that when you google 22 August it comes up that that was the date that in the New Zealand Parliament the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill passed? What else has happened on that day?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc43121d88e14ecdbeb2ee338b76f2af\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: My brother-in-law has a birthday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4703668f34b4168a9ab1d529ada0f25\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: Ah, well that was not on Google. But the commencement date of 22 August has had a mixture of the sad and the joyful, and a mixture of the memorable and the less memorable. But let me just outline some of the things that have happened on 22 August, which we know is actually the likely date of the commencement of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca4945a29ea14b48a08209640766325a\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I call your attention to Standing Order 108 around relevancy, and also note in  Standing Order 108(2) tedious repetition being referred to, and wonder whether this meets that clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218fa5b6f1f6a442791dbec676ded3895\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: Previous speakers have drawn attention to the fact that the commencement date of this bill is very significant because of the significant implications, particularly for those who will be charged with enforcing it. Therefore, for members opposite, who frequently delight in filibustering on matters, to criticise the member in charge of the bill for going into some detail for discussing the significance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee030c313b684f6e8af1072fc1647154\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: All right, that is enough. I do not need any more assistance, thank you very much. There were two points that the member made. One was that we should be speaking about the commencement date, and, certainly, Dr Cam Calder is doing that. With regard to repetition, I think he is probably getting into the furry edges of actually doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fad0261ff3ab4f99a6b9dd675e94e4f5\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot imagine I have ever been in the furry edges in this Chamber before. That has to be a first. I am going to move swiftly along from there because there is nothing furry about these edges, which I am about to delineate for you. We are talking about 22 August. All these points are relevant\u2014all these points are relevant\u2014because 22 August is the likely putative commencement date of this bill. I ask the Committee what else happened on that date. Sadly, the first thing that came to mind was\u2014and this is not something that I am treating with anything other than the utmost seriousness\u2014that there was a suicide bombing in western Iraq. That was 22 August 2013. When you think about what is happening now, that is an extraordinarily sad indictment of the world situation. I was unaware of this, I have to say. In 2012, on 22 August, which is the putative commencement date of this bill, Russia and Vanuatu became members of the World Trade Organization. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003ECould it be that in a few months\u2019 time, or maybe longer, after this bill is passed, in 2014, on 22 August, this bill being passed into law in New Zealand\u2014because this is a worldwide problem; it is not peculiar only to New Zealand\u2014could be of such significance that it would also come up in a Google search? If somebody wanted to look at significant dates, and we have heard that it is Tim Macindoe\u2019s brother-in-law\u2019s birthday\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6ac8ca2f3f2489bb78b3f5649628b16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6ac8ca2f3f2489bb78b3f5649628b16\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u00226b82116417084d8a9c3c6c2f61f00dd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b82116417084d8a9c3c6c2f61f00dd2\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure and a privilege to stand and speak. I hope that some of the things that I say about the commencement date of this Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill will go some way to consoling the author of this bill, Dr Cam Calder, a known sensitive person. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c627d744bd94b849ed4ff7046d272ed\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: He is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f594978f91842b9b722c3e64821d107\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, indeed. He is extremely proud of having his own bill in the House, and he is shattered by the callous comments from the other side that he was being repetitious and boring\u2014oh, how dreadful!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227313dc93d6c04aa1bc742dc6a98ace5c\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: And furry!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278454bd368134181ac9a0c0890be84a9\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Well\u2014adding to it. And those comments came from a lady whom we have always considered to be quite polite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EWhen we look at this bill, we have heard about how we did not wish to have conjecture over when it took effect because it is quite significant. We heard from my colleague on my right, Mike Sabin, with his police background, talking about people stockpiling these sorts of things. This is what happens. On a serious note, because this is a very serious business, I cannot remember last week, but\u2014[Interruption] Let me rephrase that: I cannot remember in which part of last week I heard the news item that a farmer had had to endure a large number of sheep being shot on his property. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251f07660472b40b593a48b03c324d0a6\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: That was North Otago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c70c3a5ac23d46e99655726ebd5054d8\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: North Otago. And how many sheep were shot on the first night?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022716df78c3ada46da8ac51ddba2ee950a\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: About 110.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0c48a22ae914e168ef54698de001ed6\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: About 110. Then he moved his flock of sheep into a safer paddock, and the next night they shot another 80. The point about this is that it is vital that we have this bill commence fairly quickly because there are very odd people around. Well, think of it, none of the sheep were eaten and none of them were taken away; they were just shot. Some people are nuts. If you give weaponry of any sort to people, they are going to use it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003ERemember, this bill does not stop people owning these things; it stops them having possession in a public place without reasonable purpose. For those who think you cannot use lasers for that sort of thing, I think there was an advertisement that might have been in the Sunday Star-Times last weekend, where a company was advertising helicopter drones that fired pepper spray and used blinding lasers to blind demonstrators at meetings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d75510270324f859453737e7547f74e\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: Surely not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aed7135af22a4ff19d34d4e9822a5598\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, surely not. But, I mean, we say let us do it seriously, and this is a very serious thing. The 28 days, though, will achieve the purpose, and it was carefully discussed by the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe immediate commencement could easily cause confusion. You have got these things. You are allowed to have them, you can own them, but you cannot have possession of them in a public place without due reason. That is the whole purpose of the bill. So by giving 28 days, it is enough for the education to hit the papers, to move around, and for people who own these things to become familiar with what they should and should not be doing with them, where they can take them and where they cannot take them. [Interruption] Do you have another point, Mr Sabin?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b5627eb7aa54c2390fe09c3cc556ec6\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s the crux of the commencement date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225045e3321bfa48be88b593ee39e4ccff\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: It is the crux of the commencement date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThis is a behaviour-changing bill, and that is why it needs education for it. [Interruption] I hear chuckles\u2014chuckles\u2014from the other side of the Chamber. I have seen an All Black ready to take a goal kick who was lasered, to put him off. This happens\u2014this happens\u2014and it happens, fancy that, in sport. I remember when we introduced this bill, with all due respect to the serious-minded members on the other side, that there was a certain \u201COh, come on. They\u2019re only toys for cats to play with.\u201D and that sort of thing. It ain\u2019t. These lasers can be extremely dangerous articles\u2014back to the furry edges again!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8294f1969444d958c1e496475a0b98a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8294f1969444d958c1e496475a0b98a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Simon O\u2019Connor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022994515c215eb4176b2984bdbfc1f1bf8\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, this will be good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u002270e0151beae74e2295bb86444b490538\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270e0151beae74e2295bb86444b490538\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased. It is a good choice. I am biased, though, of course. I am very pleased to talk to clause 2, the commencement clause of the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill. It is a little bit similar, in fact, to the first clause in so far as some simple elements got quite complicated, as we heard in clause 1. Of course, that was around the change of semantics in terminology; in the commencement clause it is obviously a debate around timing. Should we bring this about immediately? Should the Royal assent be granted quickly and efficiently, or should it be held out for 28 days? As you can imagine, with anything to do with dates, there is a whole continuum of debate there. There was some thought of whether we should go out to 6 months. There was some thought that we should even look to 8 days and so forth. They have been too facetious. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI did notice earlier when the member in the chair, Dr Cam Calder, the sponsor of the bill, was noting the calendars, he did lack clarity on whether it was a Julian calendar or a Gregorian calendar. I am very disappointed\u2014very disappointed. But, seriously, this was an area that we debated quite a bit, because on one side immediate commencement recognises the fact that this is an important bill and that there is a serious consequence here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI was talking to some friends last week on a different topic, around what we would say is high risk but low frequency. There is a degree of that here, but when you are talking about an airliner, or even if it is just the Eagle unit helicopter\u2014I have friends in the police, particularly in Auckland, who are noting the dangers even to the police helicopters\u2014surely, the argument goes, we should put this into immediate effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWe as the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee debated that at length. The corollary to that, and where we ultimately ended up, though, was that we needed time to embed the launch of the bill to seek Royal assent, as is proper in this constitutional arrangement. What we thought was that 28 days allowed two things. First and foremost, it gave an opportunity to our constabulary, to the New Zealand Police, to put its structures in motion in order to allow the police a full and proper consideration of what is required to get the paperwork sorted and to read through the various legal consequences, because, as other speakers I am sure have noted, this bill itself relies on other legislation. We heard Mike Sabin earlier talking about the possession of knives and so forth, so there are those elements that have to be considered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe second side, though, was the fairness of the law. I am no lawyer, which may be a good thing for the country, but one of the elements is that people have to understand the laws themselves\u2014what I suppose we would look on in philosophy as natural justice\u2014giving people the opportunity to understand what this law means and what it means for them. At the heart of this are hand-held lasers, items that people are quite familiar with, from those who use them for quite normal and adequate means, be they a lecturer at a university or so forth, or in an engineering firm, to those with more nefarious intent. Whether or not, Dr Calder, those people are fluffy, hirsute, or otherwise is a point for another debate, but we need people to fully understand\u2014I am sorry, I just had to get \u201Chirsute\u201D in tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe key, though, is what the appropriate timing is. I think what we have tried to note is the balance between those two points of tension. Do we get this bill under way immediately to show it is a serious piece of legislation, or do we give enough time so that consideration can be undertaken by the constabulary, by the police, and so that people can understand what this law means to them? It is particularly for citizens who are used to carrying around a hand-held or a high-power laser, so that they can fully appreciate what is required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI think that after a bit of debate in the select committee\u2014and I note that the chair, David Bennett, a fine chair, is here with me in the Chamber, and a number of my colleagues\u2014we came to the belief, which we have now articulated in clause 2, the commencement clause, that this Act comes into force on the day that is 28 days after the date on which it receives Royal assent. We thought that was a good spot so that we can take this bill\u2014once it is completed in the House in a timely and appropriate manner, which is quite germane to this clause in itself\u2014and we can send it to the Governor-General. He can sign it on behalf of the Queen of New Zealand. We can get it into the statute book, but then we have 28 days for consideration so that Kiwis can make\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8ac8ef1fad24f84a524b6b1700d13a7\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: In 28 days? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2fe71febd5c4ab597e35c0cbcc4fb33\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually a lot of things can happen in 28 days. I believe you can even bite a player, which seems to be in vogue at the moment. Fortunately, this is not part of it. Again, this was an area, like clause 1, which took up a bit of time in the select committee as we considered the various options. I am hearing from my colleagues in the Chamber, but I would be open to more discussion, but I think that we came to a point that we felt was appropriate, balancing those respective rights\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u00228bfffd0069904a75b205ae76485dec68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bfffd0069904a75b205ae76485dec68\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I do appreciate the sensitivity that fellow members of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee are displaying when we are talking about the commencement date. This Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill is a very serious bill. There has been a bit of banter about it over the course of it because I think a lot of people mistakenly think when they think of laser pointers, even if they think of high-powered laser pointers, that they are actually toys, and of course they are not. That is why the commencement date for when this bill comes into effect is so important. Members of the committee sensed my pain when I was unsuccessful in getting an immediate enactment of this bill, so that once it is passed and has got Royal assent, it then comes into force.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EI picked up on the points raised by a number of speakers. These speakers have raised points that are very, very pertinent, and it was canvassed at some length by the committee. It has been said that we could have gone out to 6 months. That would have been ridiculous as the commencement date. Why would you go out to 6 months? I cannot think of any reason why. However, I think it was one of the timespans that was canvassed by the committee. I thought I had it won. I thought I had it won initially on the committee with saying \u201Cimmediately\u201D. Nothing succeeds like success; let us get it done, in, down, out\u2014we have got it. But it was not to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EI have to pay credit when talking about the commencement date to the artful hand of this maestro of committee chairmanship. I refer, of course, to David Bennett. David Bennett is known for many things, he is esteemed for many things, and he has a reputation for many things, but nothing is more illustrious than his highly burnished reputation as a very successful and capable committee chair. It was his calm handling of what could have been a fraught situation\u2014it could have been a slightly angst-ridden situation, despite the inherent collegiality of this committee when we were discussing this very pertinent point of the commencement date. But as it transpired, through the calmness, the demeanour, the ability to build bridges that he displayed within the committee when we were discussing the commencement date\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289fa1b3f03194005b4c1844e9dd307c1\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: He built bridges and got over them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0f788c2f5574bb887dadb739772827b\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there you go\u2014a very pertinent point from the member from the far north, who is doing an outstanding job in the far north, not only with his perceptive speeches in the Committee on this very important bill but also as the calm presence on the committee who just grounds the chairman and makes sure that things happen in a timely manner, with consultation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003ESo we got to this stage that I was uncomfortable about. I have to say that I was uncomfortable, but for the greater good I was convinced. I mean, I am learning. I am almost away from this place, but you learn every day in this House and you realise that politics is the art of the possible, is it not? It is the art of the possible. The commencement date is possible only because we came to an agreement, because there was openmindedness on both sides. We had a very collegial Opposition. There was a lot of debate\u20146 months; as I say, I was going for \u201Cimmediately\u201D. And yet the voices in the committee gradually moved around so that 28 days was the length of time that the committee agreed to\u2014I do have to take responsibility; I was part of that committee\u2014unanimously. This has been the great thing about this bill. It has been unanimous not only in the committee but across the House. So I think that if you ask anyone in this Chamber, they will support the 28-day period, because that is what came about from the select committee for the commencement date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EI have to say I am very grateful, as the member who first put up this bill, and did not even think about the commencement date at that early stage, because I had to get it through the caucus, and then we had to get it drawn from the ballot, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u0022744cf3136b6b4d9fa0ef2969b21826a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022744cf3136b6b4d9fa0ef2969b21826a0\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d0a5473eee294d9db77f7e75b6b7bd33\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote  was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000657\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 59, Noes 60.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u002210013cfc0f90474e9545a2a838514bfc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210013cfc0f90474e9545a2a838514bfc\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am not wishing in any way to doubt what has been expressed by the Opposition whip, but it was my understanding that Mr Horan was not casting a vote on this matter. Can she assure the Committee that she has received a proxy for\u2014[Interruption] Sorry, could I just complete my point. Can she assure the Committee that she has received a proxy on a procedural motion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00226922bde890994eb2b5714bf6ce1ea605\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226922bde890994eb2b5714bf6ce1ea605\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: All members in this House are honourable members, and I think we are getting into dangerous ground when we start challenging the right. Members who cast a vote know what the consequences are if they mislead the House. In any consideration a change in that particular vote is not going to change the outcome of this particular\u2014[Interruption] It still is not going to change the outcome. The member can ring up the whip on the other side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00229668461f0dbd40eead67e3f3a6d9978c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229668461f0dbd40eead67e3f3a6d9978c\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I have just two quick points, if I may. The issue of the procedural motion proxy would determine the outcome of the motion. The second thing is I do not think the Government whip was intending to cast aspersions on\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a89b66d9bfa74a2ca32ac6942ce8c340\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2e480c231d845b9b8b81bfa6796f04f\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the Opposition whip. I do think it is important for her sake, though, to clarify the difference between a proxy on a procedural matter, which is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022543f55f362664a5784aa848ad17f17e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022543f55f362664a5784aa848ad17f17e7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I have ruled on this. Let me reread the votes. Those who voted for the closure were 59, including Brendan Horan. Those who voted against were 60. So the motion is not agreed to. I have made that quite clear, and we are going to gain nothing by casting aspersions. Members know the consequence of casting votes they do not have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u002248efa9f1f62c4d19b0b5b57ac0b1f967\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248efa9f1f62c4d19b0b5b57ac0b1f967\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (Junior Whip\u2014National): \u003C/span\u003EI raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6bfab011edc45129c9c592c13bea648\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Are we going to get into some new material?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b86e972870c4238bb950cbc4bdfd404\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: This is new material. I believe that you have just mistakenly declared the result of the vote, and I think you have actually just cast the names and numbers the wrong way round.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225bd6e29d2954118ad13b2fc08bd7ce5\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220baffcc617934e62bdaaf143cca1fb92\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: Even the Opposition is agreeing with that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022acdc7a9c84c249a7b909567a3ecb04ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acdc7a9c84c249a7b909567a3ecb04ff\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I declared that the motion is not agreed to on the first cut. Did I\u2014[Interruption] The key point was that I said the motion is not agreed to, so we are not having the closure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u002205fedc33d4ed4881adb932fb704b998d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205fedc33d4ed4881adb932fb704b998d\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I will continue where we left off on the commencement date in clause 2 of the Summary Offences (Possession of Hand-held Lasers) Amendment Bill, soon to be enacted as the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Act. In terms of the commencement date, there are a couple of key points I want to speak to. One of the fundamental things, I think, was around the education period and the time that was needed, particularly for the enforcement agencies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThis is a narrow piece of law, and it is a narrow field, I guess, in terms of the likelihood of offending, but when it does occur, it is very, very serious. The police submitted that what they need is an opportunity to carry out training. That is why the commencement date was set at a month\u2014and, actually, that is quite limiting for the police to carry out training. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003ETypically, what they will do, and let us bear in mind that they have to do it within 28 days, is have a number of training days where the sectional police officers in particular\u2014the front line, if you like, of the police force; those who are out there in the incident cars\u2014will go through a training process. They will learn what this legislation is about and what the expectation is in terms of how it will be enforced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThis is not a punitive piece of legislation. The Summary Offences Act in itself is not something that wields a significant amount of weight. But the point is that the implications of someone using one of these high-power laser pointers maliciously is significant, and that fact will not be lost on the police. So in that first 28 days the police will actually have to carry out some training days across what amounts to probably several thousand police officers\u2014the front-line police officers in each police station across the country. What the police will want to understand, really, is not just the law and what the expectations are, and what the ingredients of the offence will constitute, but in what manner the police intend to actually police that. I would suggest that they will very much take a proactive, informative position on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThat brings me to the next point I want to make about the commencement date and the time allowed for the education process, which is that an education process must occur for the general public. So in those first 28 days from the Royal assent, what the public has to get its head round is what a high-power laser pointer is, as distinct from a laser pointer that may be used\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4bccae17d214ab8a7d04eabcb94fd99\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: A low-powered one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c079c9933d14cda8a05bf7ae1a3a1d1\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Robertson?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a572d97a52c24395b57fce6202a95db9\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: As distinct from a low-powered one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204f7993d9a054a0eafa34f2472a1a67c\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly\u2014as distinct from a low-powered one. Of course, in the university world this will be a big deal. It will be a big deal because there are a number of people who use these things in the education setting, and, of course, there are many who use them at conferences and seminars and what have you. I would hazard a guess that inside the equipment box of a number of seminar presenters, at conferences and so forth, are laser pointers. Also, there are many people who use these things as toys and many stores that sell them as toys.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b35a95b0aec3415aaf9337a3fc8b2a91\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Do they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2e45baa3e294e549f46e6798dfe8db0\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, absolutely. Obviously, they are going to need to determine, as retailers of these products, where they land. That is not to say that they cannot sell them, but, obviously, if one falls into the hands of someone who uses it for a malicious purpose, then that will obviously be of concern to retailers. So that 28 days from the commencement date provides that opportunity for the general public, for those who are commonly using these devices, to get their heads round what the expectation is and what is this legislation is actually about. It is not about punishing law-abiding citizens who are going about their lives using laser pointers for legitimate purposes; it is about those who would use them for malicious purposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThen we have the impact in terms of the workplace. In many workplaces laser pointers are used. In fact, in many workplaces lasers are used. So there will be some question that workplaces will have to resolve within that first month as to whether the lasers they are using would constitute high-power lasers if they were actually held and used by hand. In fact, in engineering and even on building sites lasers are used. I have used one myself\u2014not well. I have to say that if I laid down a snooker ball on the living room floor, it would roll to one corner\u2014disappointingly so. I did use a laser and obviously got that wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022688cf75d781c4461b7651536483a8e46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022688cf75d781c4461b7651536483a8e46\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I would just like to congratulate Dr Cam Calder on his great work on the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill, as well. I felt I had to respond, since he did go through what the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee had done when we had to go through clause 2 and the conjecture that there was around the commencement date\u2014around the 28 days. Dr Cam Calder raised a number of issues there around how the committee approached that issue and why it came to the result that we have here in front of us tonight. It is simply that there was, as he said, a desire for him to see the commencement date being immediate. Although we appreciated his intention to make sure that there were no more incidents that could be attributed to these hand-held lasers, we were also mindful of the fact that we had received advice from the police and others that we potentially needed to give a bit more time for them to get themselves in a position to be able to enforce the law, and also to educate and inform members of the public about what the change in the law would be. So that is why 28 days was settled upon as the appropriate balance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe were actually asked in the committee to go for an even longer date than 28 days, but we felt that it would accommodate Dr Cam Calder\u2019s wishes more if we went for 28 days rather than, say, a 3-month period. That was something that could well have been the case for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ee47cd73ad34e9f8e7db77fbfdf98e4\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What about 26 weeks?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2f196f141ad472f92c9c92711335371\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you can go for any number you want, really. And just remember that numbers are important today, because the Labour Party has put out its tax rates, and they are all going up. It chose 36 as the number for all those good, hard-working New Zealanders\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8d5c803cf524d138787ccdbaba52b36\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Come back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224254b7604ef64d91b0612b4ae8cddbe6\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014who have to pay 36c in the dollar. Twenty-eight days is the one that was decided upon here today, and that is why we are looking at clause 2 of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EOnce again, it is a very good bill in the name of Dr Cam Calder, who has taken a great interest in making sure that it passes through this Committee. We look forward to its passage through the rest of the evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d6db54efc0244feba53d7825447f16e4\u0022\u003EClause 3  Principal Act\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u002230fb52e18b86459491ffb1a8a7a127f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230fb52e18b86459491ffb1a8a7a127f6\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Clause 3 refers to the principal Act, and clause 3 provides that the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill amends the principal Act. The principal Act is the Summary Offences Act 1981. It may come as no surprise to members of this Committee that, actually, no submissions were received on this clause, because, effectively, it is what it is. There being no submissions received, the Ministry of Transport, which was our adviser, unsurprisingly made no recommendations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003ELet us look at what the Summary Offences Act 1981 is. This is the principal Act, and it is actually quite a solid body of work\u2014a solid body of work. Its commencement date, since we have been talking about commencement dates for some time, was actually 1 February 1982. I just let you know in case anybody was wondering, because we have been talking about commencements. But this is the principal Act we are talking about here, the Summary Offences Act 1981. Those of you who have been listening to this debate\u2014and it has been brought up by a number of speakers\u2014will recall that the name of this bill is the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill, so this legislation we are debating today amends this Act. This is the principal Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003ESo what does this Summary Offences Act do? It is actually quite a remarkable piece of legislation because it is brought into its own umbrella and deals with a lot of different legislation. It is pertinent to note that in itself it was an Act to reform and restate the law relating to summary offences\u2014not surprisingly, given the name of the legislation is the Summary Offences Act\u2014and to replace the Police Offences Act 1927 and its amendments. So what we are seeing here when we are thinking of the principal Act is the fluidity and flux involved in legislation\u2014how legislation evolves and is, in turn, superseded or amended. So what we have got in this piece of legislation in front of us today is actually amending this principal Act, the Summary Offences Act 1981. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003ESo what actually does the Summary Offences Act do? It is actually, as I said, quite encyclopaedic in its scope. The first pages, section 3 right through to section 8, deal with offences against public order\u2014offences against public order. So what might we consider these offences to be? I could see Todd McClay coming up with a few ideas. These offences include disorderly behaviour\u2014not that he would ever be associated with such an offence against public order himself, being an upstanding Minister. They include offensive behaviour or language, disorderly behaviour on private premises\u2014I mean, we all could have been guilty of that at some stage; we are only human. We are only human. I have met many good men and women in my life but I have never met a saint and I have never met an angel. All of us at some stage could have been guilty of disorderly behaviour on private premises. The offences include disorderly assembly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EThe next one\u2014possibly Mr Sabin saw this in his previous role as a policeman\u2014 is associating with convicted thieves. This is definitely one that Mr Sabin would have seen\u2014look at his broad shoulders. We are very lucky that he has been part of the thin blue line\u2014the thin blue line. The offences include associating with violent offenders and\u2014here we are, because this could be describing Mr Sabin\u2019s modus operandi and raison d\u2019\u00EAtr\u00EA\u2014associating with serious drug offenders. We know his stance on the evils of drugs. Proof of habitual association\u2014goodness me, you could be actually charged under a lot of this, were you not a police officer. Fighting in a public place\u2014that could apply to any member of the Parliamentary Rugby Team. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EI just want to get to my point, which is coming up. The offences include fighting in a public place, publishing a document or thing explaining the manufacture of explosives. I have to put my hand up and say I have been young and I experimented with\u2014I will not say what it was. I will not say what it was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022399c4073a60f4624bba6daca27f9765f\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: When were you young?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022209e0d04d64944d18557efdcf9392a44\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it was a long time ago. It was probably in the chemistry lab\u2014we have all done this in the chemistry lab. It led to a satisfying little explosion, but under carefully controlled conditions, of course. Offences against personal property\u2014this is the point that I am very pleased that we have come to. We have got another member formerly of the police force here, a very able former member of the police force, who in the past actually made his contribution in the thin blue line with the aid of a large dog. I am talking about Mark Mitchell here, who has gone on to carry his abilities in security into some of the world\u2019s hottest trouble spots and now brings it to bear on the rugby field for the Parliamentary Rugby Team as the co-captain. Sitting next to him is the vice-captain, Alfie Ngaro. They are two rather large gentlemen with extraordinarily broad shoulders who are part of the potency of the team, it has to be said\u2014part of the potency of the team. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003ESection 10 of the Summary Offences Act 1981\u2014which is, of course, the principal Act that we are debating\u2014talks about assault on police, prison, or traffic officers. So were anyone to be so foolish as to offer violence to Mr Sabin or Mr Mitchell, they probably would regret it quite quickly, but after that assault had been offered they would have been able to be prosecuted under this principal Act here. The next is something that there is no excuse for, and this is something that we do not want to see in New Zealand. We see it too often. We see it on hot days when mum or dad nips into the supermarket and leaves their child in a car without reasonable care or supervision. This is a very serious issue. This is covered by the Summary Offences Act, as well as wilful damage, graffiti vandalism, tagging, and defacing\u2014all things not quite on the same level. The Act covers the possession of graffiti implements, acts endangering safety, things endangering safety, and, here we are, the possession of knives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EI have to pay credit to Todd McClay, because when we were backbenchers together and I said to him that I had got this idea for a member\u2019s bill, he said he would look for and find the Act for me, because he thought he knew where it was\u2014and he did. He was a very, very helpful man. I want to pay credit to him in this Committee stage. It was about the possession of knives\u2014section 13A. Section 13A of this principal Act is what I based this bill on\u2014section 13A of the principal Act is what I based this bill on. It just seemed to me to make sense. Why is it that we cannot walk around in our country with a knife in our possession? It seems perfectly sensible that we should not be able to, but I posed a question to myself. With a knife, you can be dangerous and cause harm, of course, to somebody who is quite close; with these high-power laser pointers that this bill is about\u2014and this is the principal Act on which we are talking\u2014the damage you can cause is grievous and huge. \u201CCatastrophic\u201D is the word that police have used in public statements when they are talking about the misuse of these devices. They have got more powerful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EComing back to section 13A of the principal Act here, which is based on the carriage of a knife, why should you be able to carry in a public place a device in the form of a high-power laser pointer, which is actually far more dangerous than a knife? If I had the time and it was relevant to clause 3 of this bill, which it is not, I could mention military applications, which other members of the Committee have brought up. They have pointed out how these are not toys; they are weapons. A high-power laser pointer, I would submit, is far more dangerous than a knife. That is the reason a knife\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022237d8796bd6b4d88806b589bd012e81b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022237d8796bd6b4d88806b589bd012e81b\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call on clause 3 of the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill, which refers to the principal Act, the Summary Offences Act. In many ways this comes down to a lot of what Dr Calder has noted. The Transport and Industrial Relations Committee considered whether we needed to replicate a number of elements out of the Summary Offences Act 1981 in order to integrate them into the bill here. That would, of course, have made it substantially longer. It would have made this debate, consequentially, substantially longer as well. But we felt\u2014and we took a lot of advice from officials and made our own considerations\u2014that we could actually rely on the Summary Offences Act 1981. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI think Dr Calder, in his address just earlier, noted in particular the impact on police and turned to two of my colleagues, Mark Mitchell and Mike Sabin, who, I have just learnt, was a police officer. I would also want to note actually that I am very fortunate to have my father here in Parliament as well. I mention that because as a former police officer himself, he would be very familiar with elements of the Summary Offences Act of 1981, of course\u2014effective, if I recall correctly, in the last years of his service to the Crown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe really important thing for us\u2014and it is around the principle of good law\u2014is that we do not need to replicate. We are relying quite heavily on the Summary Offences Act 1981. Cam went through it quite well. I am looking at my notes beside me here. The Summary Offences Act really does look at the behaviour and conduct of New Zealanders, citizens, residents, and so forth in the community\u2014so everything from the possession of spray-cans, to knives, to how one conducts oneself in public and in private. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe Summary Offences Act is quite a critical piece of legislation, and, again, we have seen how that has been applied, particularly through our police force. The best advice that we were getting from officials, including from the police, was that actually the thing that we needed to do in clause 3 was point towards the Summary Offences Act. It provided enough context for us to move forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EDuring the course of the debate, it has been raised with me, by a constituent, actually, concerned perhaps that legitimate uses of hand-held or high-power lasers may be excluded. The constituent, I think quite rightly, pointed towards laser devices that are used for astronomical observation and for navigation, and colleagues have gone further to discuss military applications, and so forth. The Transport and Industrial Relations Committee did consider this. It does form part of clause 3. The fact that we look towards the Summary Offences Act means intent becomes quite important. So if you are an engineer, an astronomer, a captain in terms of the merchant navy or on the seas, or an academic, of course, you can rightly have a hand-held laser and be able to use it in the same way that someone may actually have items that we have heard about in the Summary Offences Act. They may be in possession of what could well be described\u2014I mean, I can think of chefs who walk around with knives. They are often initially concealed as they take them to work. We are not expecting fine police officers to be detaining them, or if they are stopped, questions will be asked. In fact, I think of myself\u2014and this does fit within clause 3 and the Summary Offences Act\u2014as a fencer and as a fan of that sport of l\u2019escrime, to use a bit of French, Dr Calder. As we were colleagues and friends, we would often be walking to and from the university gym carrying what were effectively seen as weapons at times. They are swords. There are three different types: foil, \u00E9p\u00E9e, and sabre.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b0f8c3850164b2db36f297a04419beb\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re a bit of a swordsman?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e52b8924f9194c9890e94cd91e302858\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: A swordsman\u2014somewhat accomplished, we could say, but that is by my own assertion. Others would argue against it. But what I am trying to draw is that we can have objects\u2014in this case, a sword, a piece of sporting equipment\u2014that could be seen as offensive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207d42dbe-f05a-4a7a-8c23-0eecc14b72aa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e86668e95894df78c8a0aeaa93c13e6\u0022\u003EPaul Foster-Bell\u003C/span\u003E: What about lightsabers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d27e3e9fc8834284bdff267807d88ab0\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014no lightsabers, Paul Foster-Bell. That is another generation to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWhat I am trying to illustrate is the purpose or the intent. If I were to ever be stopped, of course, by a police officer, I would respond and explain the intent of what I was carrying\u2014in this case, a fencing foil\u2014and I think this is analogous, therefore, to how the Summary Offences Act here in clause 3 would work with high-power lasers. If a person is able to explain why they have this high-power laser, why they have this item of over 1 milliwatt in their possession, and why they need to use it, that could be explained to the constabulary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u00222d2d1d81871b49b295d66f19e7eb9974\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d2d1d81871b49b295d66f19e7eb9974\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to take a call on clause 3 of the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill to talk about what really is the bread and butter of front-line police officers\u2019 work, and that is the Summary Offences Act. This bill amends the Summary Offences Act 1981\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7f7d4fed5554106bedef6c7cbeb481c\u0022\u003EAlfred Ngaro\u003C/span\u003E: Were you a policeman?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc6d942eb6024cfcbf8361db1f20cacf\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I was a policeman. It is a fact less often known, but I am happy to get it on the table for this particular purpose to help elucidate the importance of the Summary Offences Act 1981, which received Royal assent on 23 October 1981. The Summary Offences Act typically contains\u2014Mr Calder did allude to some of them\u2014offences that we would constitute as being at the minor end of the scale. They are what you could often refer to as the rats and mice type of offences. The penalties are commensurate. Is that the word, Mr Calder? You are a scholar.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243a51a5bc51b448ea453677d64726d6d\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, an excellent word!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022857d04aaa31d4a72ac1109d89159201a\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I learnt that one at Police College. They are commensurate\u2014commensurate\u2014with the offences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EIf we look at the detail in terms of the Summary Offences Act and the framework that it is set in, first and foremost, a summary offence is an offence that is trialled by judge only, so there is no option for a jury trial. A jury trial matter would be something that is an indictable matter. A purely indictable matter is a high-end High Court matter, if you like, and receives penalties that have the most significant consequences. Summary offences deal with the lower end, and they are a judge-only matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThe second point to note is the statute of limitations. The statute of limitations refers to the time between the offence and the offender being placed before the court and charged. For summary offences, it is 6 months. When we talk about amending the Summary Offences Act, what we are discussing is amending a piece of legislation that typically deals with lower-end offences, where the penalties are of less consequence, where we are dealing with a judge-only trial, and where we have a statute of limitations of 6 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThe other interesting point to note is that those who are arrested for matters in the Summary Offences Act typically do not have to provide their fingerprints, which is a fact lesser known, and they are bailable as of right. Typically, they will be in a position where they can receive police bail to go about their lives and be summonsed to court at the next sitting day, generally speaking, if they have been charged and processed through a police station. That gives the context of the Summary Offences Act 1981 and gives us a sense of\u2014[Interruption] I hope my colleagues are all paying attention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022092932742d0e49bbb83434c8f6b3efc3\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I\u2019m taking notes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b116373b8b0e4d8787204e805e39da1c\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely\u2014taking notes. There is another former police officer behind me, of course, Mike Mitchell, but as a dog handler, he did not often deal with the Summary Offences Act as much as the \u201C101 My Dog Bit Someone Act\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EI just want to allude to a couple of specific features that I think draw absolute comparison with Dr Calder\u2019s bill here. The first deals with graffiti. That is section\u2014can I borrow your glasses? No, I am only kidding. It is very, very small print. That section deals with graffiti. Can you bring section 11A and 11B on the big screen? Section 11A of the Summary Offences Act deals with graffiti and section 11B talks about being in possession of items that may be\u2014there it is, right there. That is the next one I will be talking about. Section 11B deals with the instruments that may be used for graffiti purposes, and then there is a subsequent offence in section 11A that actually makes it an offence to then commit the graffiti. If we draw the analogy between that and the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill, what we are actually saying is having possession of them is one thing, but then there is a second step before it becomes an offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022df9dc4670af1406690db64b4ca487af3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df9dc4670af1406690db64b4ca487af3\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I apologise for jumping in before my colleagues, but I seek leave to correct a vote that I cast on the procedural motion earlier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ac4389149144e2b93491a6793b63cb2\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there anyone opposed to that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c4d0a4b482d4c77978931e22b4a0716\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: It appears that I cast a vote of 2 for the M\u0101ori Party; it should have been 3. I was not aware that I had said that. That was why I questioned the arithmetic, and I do apologise to the Committee for my error.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002292d2c585c1ba4329a052326311767133\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292d2c585c1ba4329a052326311767133\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: So what that means is that the vote will be 60-60, and it takes an outright majority to win a vote. Leave is sought to correct the record of the M\u0101ori Party vote from two in favour to three in favour. Is there anyone opposed to that course of action? It appears not. Leave is granted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u00227349d96557f4459f8a30d4fef6c6ad16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227349d96557f4459f8a30d4fef6c6ad16\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am particularly pleased to have been able to offer a token of technical assistance to my colleague Mike Sabin, who was in the police force. I think that needs to be established. We need that established. Not only that, but we have another colleague, Mark Mitchell, who was in the police force, and now I am a little bit nervous, because we also have the Minister of Police and the Minister of Corrections, Anne Tolley, with us in the Committee. So I do hope that I get this completely right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EWe are talking about clause 3 of the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill. Clause 3, as we have already heard, amends the principal Act, which is the Summary Offences Act 1981. I have always understood that a summary offence is a crime in common law jurisdictions that can be proceeded against summarily\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022336cc10303f9466e9f9d1bed1467fc3d\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CSum-air-ily\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c9ce16836654360beb8cb66968c4d7e\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014oh, \u201Csum-air-ily\u201D, you would say; he also says \u201CWang-ana-why\u201D, as well\u2014without the right to a jury trial or indictment. It is governed by the statute of limitations for 6 months, arrest is bailable as of right, and no fingerprints are taken. Is that right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2fe35d4ae9b4af7881756cfdc2c760c\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245997c233a574469b14c01767922a71a\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: That is correct. We have got that bit covered. When one has a look at the Summary Offences Act\u2014and I will just bring it up on my little screen. For a layperson such as myself, who is not overly familiar with the law beyond the level required to be a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229483cd19037544118e7b3d993dbe7410\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: JP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221891dcbcd83f41c7a23597beda23aaef\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: A justice of the peace. It is interesting, if one has a moment, to look at the summary of the Summary Offences Act. It covers offences against public order, persons, or property, and spray cans. I can remember when we brought that one through Parliament. It was necessary to introduce legislation to control spray cans. I am old enough to remember\u2014and I am sure that there are members on the other side of the Chamber who are too\u2014when graffiti was simply \u201CKilroy was here.\u201D, and that was about it; you did not see anything much else. Then spray cans came along.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003ESummary offences also include offences resembling forgery or fraud; offences against official information; intimidation; obstruction and hindering police; indecency; loitering and trespass; offences resembling nuisance; infringement offences; search, arrest, and jurisdiction; and amendments and appeals. It is an interesting chapter in history and is all meat and potatoes to the boys in blue\u2014the thin blue line. I remember that I worked with a colleague who had been a policeman\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c499a422d6da4cc791def64267e47903\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: This is the meat and three veg.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022369effcf19c947ffa97fc6b7dbf44a9c\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: This is three vegetables, yes. Some of these laws were, of course, quite convenient from the point of view of apprehending people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cc084ef41cd4361804c7a7b2b849c08\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: Possession of a knife.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b26e814e11d2490481f9add5b2045e33\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Possession of a knife is a particularly significant one, and that is the one that we have alluded to quite frequently in discussing the principal Act. [Interruption] Thank you. Perhaps I can just refer to section 13A of the Summary Offences Act, subsection (1): \u201CEvery person is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or a fine not exceeding $2,000 who, in any public place, without reasonable excuse, has any knife in his or her possession.\u201D This is tricky if you are a Scottish gentleman wearing a kilt with a sgian-dubh in your sock, but it is also tricky for some Sikhs, I think\u2014where is Kanwal when you need him\u2014because I believe they carry knives. The similarity of section 13A\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237d9ec9f114a465898277971150c125d\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: You are making a fool of yourself, Mr Auchinvole. Just cut the crap and get to the business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022970008bd2d8e4c799b7d1460ce532503\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chair. It is amazing that what we object to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd730b3d7a764368be663d1f434a94e1\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Just come to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022418e0791fea54b4c9a3329f407d46e70\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014is what we least like about ourselves. It was an indictment of that member Maryan Street to speak like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d92704738b4d43dbab780d4f7df276a6\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member cannot use a point of order to attack another member. With the way in which the member raised that point, he transgressed into that. But I say to the member Maryan Street who called out the interjection that it was inappropriate and it is not the sort of decorum we like to see in the Committee. Members can express their dissatisfaction by using higher-grade language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220362042432934ec8ae952a1352c99492\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll try to ramp it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8b3644c2f514be7bd11162a7ff0f361\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I am on my feet. The member will be trying somewhere else, if she is not very careful. Mr Auchinvole has about half a minute to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241abcc169f4a4a2bb965f992e4c25f1f\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chairman. I am so sorry to see my parliamentary colleague so deeply upset. I do not know where she has been or what the cause of this is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295de22e79b384a07926da729a934f9c9\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: Offensive language is in the Summary Offences Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbd0f0d99834425293c3fbc1d9fa4663\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Offensive language is in the Summary Offences Act. I do not know what it was and I do not know who it was that has upset Maryan Street, but I am sorry to see her behave in the way that she is behaving, because this is a very important bill. It might appear not to be so to that member, but it is to us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4bd5103341c40d1adbdfc2ec95e53c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4bd5103341c40d1adbdfc2ec95e53c6\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228d6bf98a7dcc492298f0215e118ed037\u0022\u003EClause 4  New section 13B inserted (Possession of high-power laser pointers)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00222d1dffdef4c5493bbaac833696883900\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d1dffdef4c5493bbaac833696883900\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E This is the first time I have spoken in this debate, and clause 4 is of course the weighty clause of the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill. I hope the Committee will indulge me if for just a few seconds I pay tribute to the retiring member in charge of the bill, my very good friend Dr Cam Calder, who is a man who served as deputy chair when I was chair of the Justice and Electoral Committee and who was a very loyal and hard-working deputy chair. In recent times the roles have been reversed and I have had the pleasure of serving on the Education and Science Committee, which he has chaired admirably as it has dealt with some very important legislation. So I want to thank him for being such a collegial and congenial member of this Parliament, congratulate him on his achievement in bringing this bill to this point, and wish him all the very best in what I know will be a long and illustrious retirement. I have no doubt at all that he will reflect with great pride on his achievement in getting this bill through the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI would just like to put a few questions to the member on this particular clause of the bill, clause 4. As I said, it is the clause that deals with all the substantive issues that arise from this important bill. Let us not be under any doubt, despite the humour that has at times prevailed in this debate: this is a very serious matter. It is a matter that enjoys considerable support from our law enforcement agencies, from civil aviation authorities, from health authorities, and from others in the community, because the real risk to public safety from these particular weapons or lasers being in the wrong hands and misused is very, very serious indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI would like to ask the member, and perhaps he might be good enough to jot down some of the questions that I raise to see whether he could answer them, why the change was made in the bill that he initially introduced as it has come back to the Committee from the term \u201Chand-held lasers\u201D to \u201Chigh-power laser pointers\u201D. As a layman I am sort of left wondering what the difference is, but in particular I am wondering whether there is some potential for legal ambiguity here, in that not everybody would necessarily need to hold a laser in their hand for it to be able to be used in a dangerous way. It might, for instance, be held in the mouth, or even between the toes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0525ea7f8ee4cd8996aec184f04ecd8\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Where are the women of the National Party? Why aren\u2019t they down here, taking this hit? They don\u2019t want be involved in this, because it\u2019s ugly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209598e20ab9f49cba1274cd224f1708e\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: So I would be interested to know whether that is going to be sufficiently watertight in order to stand up, should there be a need for this matter to go to court. Although the Opposition member Sue Moroney is in some way questioning the basis behind this, I would suggest that that is a very serious issue. One never wishes to have legislation that is ambiguous and therefore subject to some sort of judicial ambiguity, because that can be the reason that people who are otherwise as guilty as sin get off on a technicality in court. If the Opposition members think that that is not serious, they are misguided. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe other question I would like to put to the member in charge of the bill is whether it is to emphasise that possession is sufficiently worrying without having to demonstrate an intention to use, because, obviously, in criminal law, normally it is both actus reus and mens rea that are required. As I read new section 13B I am just wondering what the particular emphasis is on that issue. In an earlier contribution the member in charge of the bill made the point that these are not toys, and he was absolutely right in saying that. So my question would be\u2014as one who has not sat on the select committee and who, therefore, has not had the opportunity to hear the submissions on the bill\u2014what submissions were made on the specific issue of the definition by the police, by the Civil Aviation Authority, and by other submitters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ECould I also ask him what the motivation was of other submitters on this clause in the bill. Clearly, there are certain people for whom the danger of hand-held lasers being misused in aviation is very obvious. It is extraordinarily dangerous. There is also a danger of lasers being used, as one of my colleagues mentioned, during a rugby game. Potentially blinding somebody is obviously very, very serious, and for that reason we understand why both the police and health authorities would be concerned. But I wonder what the motivation of other submitters was and, indeed, what backgrounds and experience they brought to their submissions on the bill. It would help us all to understand what this particular clause is driving at, I think, if we understood what in particular it was that other submitters had in mind when they submitted on the bill. I was also interested, in view of the fact that the member drew our attention to the fact that this bill amends the Summary Offences Act\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u00227906020e34ea469bb4ec943f1aa03d5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227906020e34ea469bb4ec943f1aa03d5a\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022972512ac9b8946878746df9e9cc6d024\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022972512ac9b8946878746df9e9cc6d024\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I have heard only one speech. [Interruption] I have heard only one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u002258abd9f18807463f960d9e9b1cd14bd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258abd9f18807463f960d9e9b1cd14bd4\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, there has been only one call, as I recall. The Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223330656c891e47fe8bc51913dcbe0451\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, this is going to stretch your brain. This will stretch your brain, Mike. Come on, get into it. Come on, I\u2019m looking forward to the argument.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec5a7b670a9a4739aed00fa0b1186dca\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: I think what the member is suggesting there is that she would also like to take a call, and so I will be very, very interested to hear the member\u2019s call. Clause 4\u2014and I just want to pick up where Tim Macindoe, the previous speaker, left off because clause 4 is the meat of this bill. It shows us that new section 13B will be inserted after section 13A of the Summary Offences Act, right after \u201CPossession of knives\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThere are distinct similarities between what this bill sets out to achieve and what the possession of a knife does, and the crux of it rests on having a reasonable excuse and why it is that someone would be in possession of that. So it is not so much\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bff00f9aff2545fb91b665c6dad01011\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Struggling, struggling, Mr Sabin. Struggling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1a01f027b2540ce87d15625d7a97e17\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: She is good, is she not? It is not so much that\u2014[Interruption] Well, that is right. It is not so much that just having possession would constitute an offence, but it is the context in which a person may then go on to use it. If we look at, say, possession of a knife, what we know is that the length of the knife has no bearing on whether or not the person is in unlawful possession of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EOne part of the clause we are dealing with was an area of contention, which the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee dealt with at some length, about the difference between a high-power laser, or a hand-held high-power laser, as the bill\u2019s title has been amended to, and the possession of a\u2014what was it, Dr Calder?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d363fde99af4c8aa963a8455713062a\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: There were a number of definitions I can touch upon in my answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211523c0d4a6f45bfbfba1991eb4e1c99\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: That is right, you can touch upon that. What the committee determined was that the possession of a high-power laser was where that line should be drawn. Although there are a number of low-power lasers that can still project laser light, if you like, for a significant distance, the decision of the committee was that 1 milliwatt was the line that needed to be crossed. So when we look at the possession of a knife and the similarities of this section to that section, if someone is to be in possession of a knife for an unlawful purpose, the length of the knife has no bearing on whether or not that would constitute satisfying the ingredients of the offence. However, in this particular bill, when we are dealing with hand-held lasers, there is a distinct difference, and that difference is that it must be 1 milliwatt or higher. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EDr Calder will be able to inform interested members of the Committee, and I believe that Maryan Street in particular would be very interested to hear Dr Calder explain just how far some of these laser lights can project and the dangers they present\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246ab7ba82a8144389aee4243b028d1a1\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: 1-1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddd6f0d7c7504f1d8c4a087d5881796b\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Sure. We have heard my colleague Chris Auchinvole here talk about rugby players. I do not know, but it was 60 miles. I know he trifled with us here and asked us how many kilometres that could be, and then gave us the answer that it was 60 miles, which of course trumped us all because we just were not expecting that to come out. But the reality is that if we look at 60 miles, it would be somewhere in the order of 100 kilometres?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cd7a84590514cb69ff892550197c85c\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: 100 kilometres.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffde06e5f20a4da0b3e8a4e4675c037b\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Is it about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226010e92a543b4e54b9b4c8b306273aea\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, yeah.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b0cf421dc2540658862d413eddaad22\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: That is a long way up in the air in terms of the ability for someone to sit near an airport and project a hand-held laser at an aircraft. When it hits the inside of the aircraft, it reflects. When it hits the windshield\u2014if we can call it a windshield on an aircraft. I am not sure what it is called, but it certainly stops a lot of wind coming in, and you do not have to be an ex - police officer to know that. [Interruption] That is right\u2014that is right; I am an ex - police officer. But one thing is for sure: it basically completely blinds the pilot or the driver or, in some cases, a sportsman on a rugby field. But if a high-power laser can reach up to 100 kilometres into the sky, that is a dangerous weapon when used in the wrong context. One thing is for sure: what this bill is ultimately dealing with is those who would take something that has a legitimate use and purpose and use it for an illicit purpose that is dangerous. If we look\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae01abaf9fe748ecb11a43756346d97a\u0022\u003EScott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Nefarious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c8c71f243ec47cbaccbea1cee77b646\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Nefarious\u2014is that Latin? I am not sure. Sounds good; I will go with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223eb6ce081ed54861bb13b9cf5e8d2bc8\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: Furry edges?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022344951e9aa1f45fca29be08030e417a8\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Furry edges\u2014absolutely. But the point is that in foreign lands we have seen these things actually being used in a war context, and one thing is for sure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022bcddf99e021b46b7a3496b12f22b66ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bcddf99e021b46b7a3496b12f22b66ad\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I will take a call. I have been asked questions by my colleagues about some of the thinking behind this. I want to commend the ex - police officer Mike Sabin, who has shared the benefit of his experience in law enforcement and who understands how dangerous these devices are. As we know, clause 4 is the meat of the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill. There were no submissions on any other clause. All the submissions that we got were on clause 4, which is not surprising. This is the meat of the bill. We have heard that when I drafted this bill I modelled it on section 13A of the Summary Offences Act, which deals with the possession of knives. Section 13B in clause 4 is a new section. When clause 4 was initially drafted, it inserted new section 13B, which not only made it an offence for a person to have a hand-held laser in his or her possession without reasonable excuse but provided the police with the warrantless power to seize and detain that hand-held laser. In our debate in the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, it was pointed out that it was not necessary to have that seizure provision, and the committee came to the conclusion that we should omit that seizure provision in section 13B(2) in clause 4 because it is not necessary, as seizure powers became available to the police under the Search and Surveillance Act in 2012. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EWe had a number of submissions, and I will put the eyes on a couple of them to give you a flavour. The Director of Public Health, Dr Darren Hunt, stated that the current definition of \u201Chand-held laser\u201D that I had originally drafted in the bill was too broad and would inadvertently capture many devices that actually posed minimal risk to public health or safety. So he made the point, which was picked up by the committee and I think echoed by some other submitters, that we should use the definition in the Health (High-power Laser Pointers) Regulations 2013 and the Customs Import Prohibition (High-power Laser Pointers) Order 2013, which we have touched upon previously in this debate. He felt\u2014and the committee agreed\u2014that adopting this definition would restrict the application of the bill to laser pointers with a power output greater than 1milliwatt. This, of course, reduces the broad scope of the bill, but the feeling of that submitter, the Director of Public Health, was that the risk posed by small lasers of 1 milliwatt or less was extremely low. The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Ophthalmologists noted the same point\u2014that generally the risks associated with using low-power lasers up to class 3, which is up to and including 1 milliwatt power output, are very low. That was expert advice from the people whom we respected and we, as a committee, took that on board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EIn respect of new section 13B, inserted by clause 4, we altered it from possession of \u201Chand-held lasers\u201D to \u201Chigh-power laser pointers\u201D to make it clear what the definition was, and that what we were talking about was the same device as used in the health and customs input regulations. What we have in new section 13B(1) now is that \u201CEvery person is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or a fine not exceeding $2,000 who, in any public place, without reasonable excuse, has any high-power laser pointer in his or her possession.\u201D That was a significant change, but a particularly meaty, \u201Cbeaty\u201D, big, and bouncy change, because it made the scope of this bill directly on high-power laser pointers, which are the subject of those regulations and the order hitherto mentioned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EAs you may recall, I have to acknowledge here the presence in the Chamber of the Hon Jo Goodhew, whose hard work, endeavour, and assiduous attention to detail meant that those regulations and orders came through. It has been a pleasure working with the Minister, and I think that together, with the regulations and orders that she has brought through, and when this bill, hopefully, gets through to its final reading and is enacted, we will have a much safer country because the availability of these devices will be severely restricted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EThe hope that I had when I first drafted the bill was that, bearing in mind the position a policeman such as Mike Sabin\u2014who we have heard in the Committee today has been a police officer, and Mark Mitchell, who himself has been in the thin blue line. Well, I thought that we should give the police the chance without a warrant to seize these things if they find a miscreant lurking with intent with one of these in their possession. We discussed this at the committee but, as I think I briefly alluded to before, we deleted that seizure position, because from the time of drafting the bill, the Search and Surveillance Act 2012 was brought into law, so that actual provision was superfluous. What we did keep, of course, was that on conviction of any person of an offence, under section 13B(1)\u2014that is, being in a public place without reasonable excuse\u2014then that court may order that the high-power laser pointer be forfeited to the Crown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EI will summarise briefly, if I may. What we have then is a change, as has been brought out by some of the previous speakers, in the definition in subsections 4(a) 4(b), 4(c), 4(d), and 4(e) in section 13B as inserted by clause 4. The definition is: \u201CIn this section, high-power laser pointer means a device that (a) in the Director-General of Health\u2019s opinion, is of the kind commonly known as a laser pointer; and (b) is battery operated; and (c) is designed or intended to be operated while held in the hand; and (d) produces a coherent beam\u201D\u2014that was the word that Mr Sabin was looking for before\u2014\u201Cof optical radiation of low divergence; and (e) has a power output of greater than 1 milliwatt.\u201D That is the definition of the high-power laser pointers. That is clear to all concerned. The police are happy with that. We debated it at some length at the select committee. Indeed, as well as talking about the actual appropriate title and the commencement date, we did spend a significant amount of time on clause 4 of the bill, because we wanted to get it right. We wanted to make it simple to understand. We wanted to have coherence between the regulations and the order governing the importation and supply, and I think the committee achieved that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EI have to once again acknowledge the collegiality on the committee, with members of all sides of the House agreeing that this was a worthy bill. It will make New Zealand a safer place. It is a good bill and I am very pleased that it has got to this stage. My only regret is it appears that unless things change, I will not have a chance to speak on the third reading of this bill, which I believe is timetabled for after I have given my valedictory speech. But I know that I have got some excellent colleagues who will carry this bill through, hopefully, on Wednesday 23 July. It would be wonderful to see that bill enacted and subsequently get Royal asset and become law 28 days after receiving Royal assent. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EClause 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment presently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223ce8fbd5ff134ad89907957ad49317b6\u0022\u003EParental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224a2531cdcdb547168763cdae86ee6062\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226342a0ef58ef4603a903936b4b77aa6c\u0022\u003EClause 1  Title\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u00222f1abf1941e34fb6a77e142a8e8b5607\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f1abf1941e34fb6a77e142a8e8b5607\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E You cannot begin to understand how relieved I am to take a call in the Committee stage of the Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill tonight. It has been a long time coming. I am sorry for everyone who has had to sit through the bizarre performance that we have seen from the National members this morning as they have again\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229adc5a0a47ac44ff9d6ebf4e2128d79c\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: This morning?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f33fb347846492084d68aba66c198c2\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014this afternoon, this evening\u2014as they have continued to play these political games around something as simple as supporting families at a time when they need it most, which is when they have a newborn baby. I think it is very disappointing and I am sure that families up and down the country will feel ashamed of what they have seen the Government doing tonight. I certainly do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EBut before I go on, can I acknowledge my own parents, Mary and Denny Moroney, who are here with me this evening, hoping to hear this bill being debated and voted on. It is their 59th wedding anniversary, so happy anniversary, Mum and Dad. This bill is about families. You have been a wonderful, wonderful example of the sort of support that children can have, and look what you produced\u2014look what you produced. This bill is not about me and my family, but I just did want to acknowledge that very special occasion for my parents this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI really hope that the National Government will honour my parents\u2019 wedding anniversary by now ceasing the game. Let us just cease the game. I want to get this bill passed through its Committee stage tonight. I would love to have my parents here tonight see that occasion occur, but, more important, I want to see families throughout New Zealand actually have this issue heard, and actually have it debated in this Parliament in a democratic and civilised manner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThis is not a controversial bill. This is a measure to actually extend paid parental leave to 26 weeks, but not immediately. I have an amendment to my bill that will bring paid parental leave to 22 weeks on 1 July next year and then to finally get to the 26 weeks on 1 July 2017. It is a very affordable way of bringing forward this very important measure. This measure is important because, as Plunket says, when we give children that best start of bonding and attachment with their parent and when we give them the best opportunity to have 6 months\u2019 exclusive breastfeeding, then we know that as a country we can support those children. They will have a better life. We will all get to live beside these better-balanced and more productive citizens, and we will all get to save money. We will not have to spend so much money on remedial education. We will not have to spend so much money on those children\u2019s health care, and actually a lot of the research and evidence tells us that we will save money on our youth justice system as well. Would that not be a great thing? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThis is what the brighter future for New Zealand really looks like, New Zealand. I want to thank all the parties and independent MPs who are supporting this bill, because they know that investing early, investing in those early months, is going to be the thing that is going to make us a better country. That is what this bill is about. People listening to this debate will be able to hear which other parties are truly prepared to put their money where their mouths are and prioritise families and children. The one party, the National Party, that is now voting against this bill in this Committee is showing that it does not prioritise families. That is what it shows when it opposes this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI just want to make one more quick point, and it is this: if the National Party truly believes that this bill is not affordable, then use the financial veto. Stop playing political games and use the financial veto. Stand up and be counted. Stop the political game-playing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u00229f9baeb6019a49c4a90352e4813d732e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f9baeb6019a49c4a90352e4813d732e\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is indeed a pleasure to follow Sue Moroney as we begin the Committee stage of the Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill. This is a bill that I like to think we\u2014the Government Administration Committee that worked on it together\u2014can call a bill that can be shared. I do not think Sue Moroney has said anything that we would not agree with in a different financial situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EI would like to say, at the very beginning, that it was a bill that received a lot of attention from the select committee. We received excellent advice from the advisers we had, and Sue Moroney put a huge amount of personal effort in, which I would like to acknowledge. There was also a really good atmosphere at the select committee and everybody worked very hard to, I guess, make the best of it that we could. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EPerhaps the difficulty with it\u2014as I started to say but I think the member Sue Moroney was engaged in conversation\u2014is that the timing, perhaps, is the crucial part of this bill in terms of the political climate that it is born in. We have just seen a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a641ddadb9954c25b97ed1eb4cd8d08b\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: No pun intended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd86f3e3814a46cd85c6dca0fd3c2cff\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: No, no pun intended. We have just seen a Budget that has come through. It is forward-looking, positive, inspired, inspirational, and inspiring. It is a Budget that we can all be proud of and participate in, in the knowledge that it is targeting and it is targeted. It is selfless in that it does not seek to glorify the author; rather, it seeks to authorise attention being given to discretely measured sections of our population, and our overall New Zealand family\u2014people who need help. I honestly think that the parts of the Budget that I am referring to, and we will look at those in detail in a moment, can be embraced by both sides of the House because they are very sensible things to do\u2014they are very sensible things to do. Let us examine just a few aspects of the Budget that are of particular benefit to families. There was that \u201Cdo not play political games\u201D remark, and I accept that Sue has been through a difficult time with this bill, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0a87ce0837b4d0db2add262b80f836a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c1feaf1970a46938fcaa33f490eddc4\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Sue Moroney has been through a difficult time with this bill, and I understand that. It was difficult for all of us, but it is $500 million we are talking about in terms of family support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003ESo let us see the sorts of things that we have got in the Budget. The Government is committed to doing its part to give children the best possible start in life. Extending paid parental leave could certainly do that, and nobody whom I have heard has ever said it is a silly idea. No one has said that. I do not think it is right to paint the Government in that particular colour. It is a matter of time, affordability, and priority. Investing almost $500 million more in this Budget in the well-being of New Zealand\u2019s children and families is at the heart of Budget 2014. Families will benefit from a growing economy offering more jobs and higher wages. It is also appropriate that they are amongst the first to benefit from extra Government spending as the economy picks up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EBudget 2014 provides a comprehensive package of practical measures focused on young families and those vulnerable children who most need our care and protection. The things that are included are free general practitioner visits and free prescriptions for children under 13. I remember when I had children under 13, and it is a huge lift to know that that care is there. There is 4 weeks\u2019 extra paid parental leave, and that is extended to caregivers other than parents. There is an increase in the parental tax credit by $70 to $220 a week in total, and it is extended by 2 weeks to 10 weeks. There is $155.7 million more for early childhood education, to get more kids participating and keep fees down for parents. There is $33.4 million extra to support vulnerable children. It includes eight\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022b53acc58716b417d85d0176b8262e25c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b53acc58716b417d85d0176b8262e25c\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I see from the number of members that are jumping up on that side of the Committee that they have suddenly felt a rush of interest in the Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill. It is a level and degree of interest that I do not recall having seen until now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221667e282380b426f83ba28a1c5b5755b\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve got a good story to tell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e1535ad071d475f94ba843790537f26\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: And the member claims they have a good story to tell. I assume by that he means the story that was created by the National Government only in response to the excellent story that Labour wanted to tell. But actually, if we are taking an analogy of paid parental leave being a story of some description, what the National Government has written is the preface and what Labour has written is the actual story and conclusion, because National has not gone far enough. It has not actually gone beyond the tokenism of acknowledging that, yes, we need a lift in paid parental leave, but all of the evidence suggests that we need it to go far beyond the 18 weeks that National has proposed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9f29e6894b5404b86d443791891922b\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: When we can afford it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236937ab3fbd9474a8079af4bc8401fac\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: When we can afford it. If what the member just said then were the case, why would the National Government not introduce a stepped plan for the introduction of paid parental leave to 26 weeks? If the true story is that it is not about the principle of going to 6 months but the affordability of it, why did the National Government not set out a staged plan for reaching that goal? Because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d0d2cc4aa6d40a49de853b56c61a658\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: We have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289a8ceefb8bd44b991c924cd013f6206\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: You have not. Your policy is not 26 weeks. Unfortunately, National does not seem to understand what it has actually proposed, which was a tokenistic, 4-week increase staged over time. That is the National policy. I am sorry that I have to remind you of that. You are obviously disappointed by it, but it was Labour that has actually said that we believe that 26 weeks is possible. We have set out a timetable to do it. We have staged it. But ultimately\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289c7dd6759744ef98c35ae7971dea278\u0022\u003EMike Sabin\u003C/span\u003E: Of course you do, because you\u2019ve got great form for spending taxpayers\u2019 money, haven\u2019t you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f795fe36ee1b4353836e13cb557eb47a\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Mike Sabin seems to think that it is affordable to go 4 weeks, but anything beyond\u2014is 19 weeks unaffordable and a reckless spend of the taxpayers\u2019 money? What about an extra 14 days? Where does the line sit, Mr Sabin, between reckless and fiscally prudent? Wherever National decides the line sits, that is where it is. That is why this was never a policy of principle for National; it was a policy of politics. That is exactly what National has done, because if it was a policy based on principle, those members would have read the research by the World Health Organization, which does not say 18 weeks. It does not say that bonding and attachment can be achieved in 18 weeks. It does not say that you will improve health outcomes at 18 weeks. It all points to 26 weeks. I would be generous enough to say that I believe the National Party members in the Chamber tonight know that, and they know that they have made an unnecessary trade-off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EOn this side of the Chamber you might see that we were taking more succinct calls, and that is ultimately because there were 3,809 submissions on this bill\u2014overwhelming. Of those, 3,794\u2014over 99 percent\u2014were in favour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223802a872a3e24c85b2824e249c91b5e0\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s natural.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022230c985e12ee43b280b682abd283292a\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: It is natural, because it is the right thing to do, which is why the majority of MPs in this House are in favour of this bill passing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI would just use the time that I have available to me to make a plea to the National Government\u2014a plea. We have gone through a rigorous process. We have set out a timetable that is eminently affordable. The only thing standing in the way of this bill passing is National\u2019s veto. It is not a vote, and it is not another member, an MP; it is National\u2019s veto. Be it on those members\u2019 conscience if they deny the democratic right of this Parliament to pass a bill that an overwhelming number of New Zealanders are in favour of. That is the plea that I make to those members tonight. Do not veto something that this Parliament has a majority of support for, because that reflects entirely badly not just on the National Government but on the democratic process of this House to start with. In doing so tonight, it is not just about voting in favour of what the evidence says, what the research says, and what is best for children, best for families, and ultimately best for babies; it is also about maintaining the faith that people have in the democracy of this place, and the people have strongly sent a message to this place to pass this bill. All I ask is to let the votes stand for themselves, and that is the plea I make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u002274a4732baaa545f1a318630e6b50f932\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274a4732baaa545f1a318630e6b50f932\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to have the Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill debated as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da0c2e559d6b48d1a2ff82694662005c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is perfectly entitled to do that. Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u0022dae0e80760dd437ca6f4ab092e28143d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dae0e80760dd437ca6f4ab092e28143d\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to take a call on the Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill and speak to some of the points that Jacinda Ardern has just raised. I can understand that the member has a passion about this particular bill, as the member who introduced the bill has. Of course we all, right across this House, see absolute merit in giving every child the best start possible. It is right, it is absolutely right, that there will be passion in this debate, but it is also right that the Government has the opportunity to, and does, enact changes that it believes are prudent and right for the time and that address need. Although in a perfect world every mother would be able to stay at home and have the Government support them to do that\u2014I mean, why stop at 26 weeks; the member Jacinda Ardern said 26 weeks\u2014it is all about 26 weeks. When my children were growing up it was 5 years, but there was no paid parental leave. There is actually nothing to say that the Government has to support parents to bring up their children well. That is not the case. It is not necessary. There are plenty of people\u2014sorry, what is the member saying?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1cfe78ab04b46d39baa7b281811fa5b\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: Go on, scrap Working for Families then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022342e5172d3a344eca8a5df7cdc60edcf\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you see, there is something that that party has introduced. I personally actually believe that there is a balance to get in terms of where the individual\u2019s responsibility to plan, to take into account the costs that may be associated with having a child, and to ensure that the requisite care, support, nurturing, and so forth can be provided for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EOne of the interesting calls that has been made, right from the get-go, is around playing politics. There is a word beginning with \u201Ch\u201D that I could probably pull out of the hat, but I am not going to as I am sure members know it. There is a degree of irony about the fact that what we know is that for children who are living in vulnerability or families who are struggling, one of the best things that can happen to them is they have an economy that is growing, that is job-rich, and that has well-paid jobs, so that families have the opportunity to increase their income and therefore increase their freedom of choice and their ability to make choices that will be fit for purpose for them\u2014for the needs of their family. When we talk about playing politics, what we have seen from the Labour Party, the Green Party, and a plethora of mixtures on the Opposition benches, is essentially parties that have consistently voted against the Government\u2019s economic programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EI would challenge the member Sue Moroney to stand up and say\u2014if she is so concerned about supporting families; often the ones who rely on support, who are at the margins\u2014why she opposes the efforts of the Government to grow the economy. Why is that? I would like the member to tell us. I suspect it is because what the Labour Party wants to see, what the Opposition parties want to see, is for the Government to fail, so that they can get on to the Treasury benches. The cost, of course, of that is that ultimately, when they are not voting to support measures that will help grow the economy, they are actually hampering the very people whom they say they are there to support. If we are talking about playing politics, then I would suggest that members might want to consider what they do at all times, and not just when it suits them on a particular bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThat is the other interesting point, because what we are doing around paid parental leave, with the steps process to 18 weeks, is what we believe to be fair and reasonable, meets needs, and is prudent in terms of the fiscal conditions. We have heard successive comments about Government debt, about high Government debt. There is a certain member in this House who keeps going on about the worst economic record in 50 years. I cannot remember what his name is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e441550a26cd4a0ca013c8c348adcece\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: David Clark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af2aa78a560c4029a32e296afec4989c\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Of course. That is right\u2014Mr Clark. The reason that debt exists is that this Government has ensured that for the most vulnerable people we have taken the sharp edges off the recession and the Canterbury earthquakes. Again, I would put it that members cannot have it both ways. On the one hand, they cannot say that you need to do more and it is about 26 weeks\u2014it is about basically spending more, because this matters\u2014but then ignore the fact that that is exactly what the Government has done, particularly since the global financial crisis and the Canterbury earthquakes. This Government has absolutely been prudent and responsible in ensuring that those most vulnerable people are well looked after. Let us not forget that people out there in the real world, on $50,000 with two children, are tax-neutral. They pay as much in tax as they get back in support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022225c5a1d82904fca84b3e9ceba279f27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022225c5a1d82904fca84b3e9ceba279f27\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call for the Green Party in support of the Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill in its Committee stage. I am going to keep my contribution quite short. I think the public does not really want to hear us debating economic visions, Mr Sabin. For every example you can give, I could give others of wastage. The truth is that the 3,795 submitters who submitted in support of this bill submitted in the knowledge that this Government was talking about using a financial veto. Those people said that this bill is an economic priority. This is affordable, and we want you to do it. They convinced us. They convinced the majority of this Parliament. The fact that this executive is looking at extending its power to override the legislature is really dodgy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229288788ab7284b0d884e00539ec56ebc\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s called democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1319b1c395046669c3c5c0f8db2e9cc\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: It is not democracy as we standardly know it. This provision has not been used before, and it is extending your powers much further than they belong. It is unbalancing our democracy. You are in power, in a Government, with parties that do not want you to do this. You are given power by this country in your collective votes, and your collective votes do not support voting this down. This House supports this bill going through, and for you to be opposing it when it is the will of the country to prioritise children and this piece of legislation, is shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u00227fcbac22cb33422f993d1e5ea950d6d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227fcbac22cb33422f993d1e5ea950d6d5\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chair. I am going to take just a very short call on this Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill. It is always exceptionally good to follow Mr Sabin because he provides so much material to work with. This is for the New Zealanders out there who are listening to this debate\u2014those of you who were brave enough to have sat through the last bill, those of you who stayed in front of your televisions and in front of your wirelesses and actually watched National members trying to push this bill so far down this evening that they hoped you would fall asleep. They hoped you would not see what they intend to do with regard to the majority vote of this Committee. They tried to delay this bill and filibuster it so that you would not hear the fact that they will not stand up for children at home. [Interruption] I beg your pardon, Mr Chair, but I know that you yourself sat through that last bill, waiting, waiting, and waiting for this very important bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThis bill is important to so many New Zealanders. It is important to women, children, fathers, and mothers. It is important to all those people who actually value children before the jobs that Mr Sabin said this should all be about. Mr Sabin, in his speech, epitomised the problem with National\u2019s line of thinking. He again referred to, or took us back to a place of, working, and completely devaluing staying at home and looking after children. Mr Sabin, really interestingly\u2014listen to his words, New Zealand; go back and have a listen to his words\u2014said that the Government should not have to support families. Mr Sabin suggested that he had never been supported by his country or by his Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWhen Mr Sabin was little, when Mr Sabin was a baby at home, his mother was supported by this country through the universal family benefit\u2014by the universal family benefit. It was removed by the National Government in the 1990s. Mr Sabin does not know about that because Mr Sabin never asked his mother how her country had supported him and his family. Mr Sabin does not know because Mr Sabin never studies anything that he is supposed to get up and speak on; he just pushes the line that his whips tell him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ESo, New Zealand, what you are going to find here is that this Government will attempt to force this bill past the end of this evening in the hope that you will forget about it and that you will go to sleep. No wonder a million of you\u2014a million New Zealanders\u2014decided not to engage in democracy, when you have the arrogance of a Government like this that votes down, on a financial veto, what you, the people, have said you wish\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d88701079e847e2b6a28f655bd58676\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c01c474f096c4ab5b295582180a10a5d\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise again, Mr Chair. This bill should go through this House. It will be only as a result of the undemocratic way that the National Government responds to this bill that it will be stalled. The New Zealand public will know about it. The New Zealand public, at this upcoming election, will hear it. That is why, New Zealand, National members are frightened that you are watching the television.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1b28948ceb14dcfa03c059d96a3924a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1b28948ceb14dcfa03c059d96a3924a\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Ahn nyung ha se yo, Mr Chair. I would like to apologise to my learned colleague Alfred Ngaro, to my right, who very passionately called out so that he could have a say. It is a great pleasure to rise to speak on the Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill. Although I am opposed to it, it is very interesting to listen to the members opposite. I know that they speak with passion, but sometimes it is really difficult to take in, especially when they start talking about the arrogance of the Government or the fact that we on this side are filibustering when in the past, members opposite have filibustered to the point that it has gone on for days and days and days so that some member\u2019s bill would not come to pass. I have a vague memory of something to do with a heritage bill or a student union movement bill not actually coming before members\u2019 day. So that is very rich coming from them, talking about filibustering, and I will not take that as a salient point of objection for members on this side of the Chamber to talk on something we believe in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI would also like to take a moment to talk about what Jan Logie said. She talked about the economics of it all. I take objection to taking a lesson in Economics 101 from a party that wants to print money for the economic well-being of this country. The Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bb65ef53ad440e797c9272bf99f08d5\u0022\u003ETracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Tell New Zealand why you oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b43fda09beb44208076f7d42255cbc5\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: Tracey Martin can say whatever she likes, but when she talks about arrogance, she should look in the mirror, because her party opposes Asian migration to New Zealand every election time. This Government has always said that it was prepared to extend parental leave\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0f80e1f356a4f258c4be2c8695accab\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! There is a significant number of Standing Orders that grant us good grace and good order and an opportunity for all members to make a commanding contribution. I urge all honourable members to play the ball and not the member. Remember that, and we will preserve an excellent field for the full play of ideas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b6633e654604a838ff8fa1c3fa6a686\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to start by saying that this Government has always\u2014and I repeat, always\u2014said that it was prepared to extend parental leave but in a way that was affordable. Affordability is something that is very important to us, obviously. When we could afford more, we would do more. When this country is in a financial crisis, like the rest of the world, our focus is to get our country back in the black\u2014get back in the black, not in the red\u2014so that we can afford to pay for things for our New Zealand families. That is exactly what we did in Budget 2014. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003ELabour\u2019s 26-week paid parental leave goes too far, costs too much, and is definitely poorly targeted. I would like to reflect back on what Mr Sabin has said: why do we just stop at 26 weeks? If the country can afford it, we would all love to be at home. As a mother, I would have loved to stay at home with my son when he was born. My son is now 15, and sometimes as a working parent I feel very guilty that I did not stay at home longer. Most mothers\u2014most fathers also, probably\u2014would want to stay at home looking after their children, but for them their desire cannot be fulfilled. I think all parents would want to do that, but they have responsibilities. Just like a good Government has a responsibility to its citizens, parents also have a responsibility to their children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EOnly around 40 percent of families with newborns get paid parental leave, and Labour\u2019s policy is not targeted on need. I would like to emphasise the word \u201Cneed\u201D because we want to do what is needed. When the people of New Zealand need something, we want to supply it for them, but the thing is that this Government is fiscally responsible. We want to be managing our books carefully so that when we can afford to do it, we will do it. That is what we promised and that is what we have delivered in Budget 2014. Twenty-six weeks\u2019 paid parental leave\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u002261e8ae58d18047f2b5cc6e52283fb9c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261e8ae58d18047f2b5cc6e52283fb9c1\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022 data-id=\u0022e132a96645814739b17e2c78ae69a2fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e132a96645814739b17e2c78ae69a2fa\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E With the advances in modern science I have just had communications from the lady who brought me into the world and I happy to be able to inform the member Tracey Martin, who seems to have an uncomfortable fixation on me but I will go with it, that the universal benefit\u2014what was it called? Actually, I did not know what it was about because\u2014that is right\u2014I was a baby at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad6eb0b9cf484d9eb08002ae2c6a007d\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Family benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022600c03b58b1e4fbab10cb59d06e56012\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: What is it? Family\u2014family benefit. She informs me that it was\u2014let me see here. With the wonders of modern science, I have it on my phone\u2014$6 a week for a fortnight. Good heavens! There you go. So that brings things into stark reality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c9344e7b8dc410381628f36e359fc29\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: The same amount as what you just increased the parental tax credit by.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf7e7b5f3dad43a584b2bbda6c5f07ca\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry? Six dollars\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be754b239ff24a32a80e71d8c39f55eb\u0022\u003ETracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Ask your mother.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba875a0c3c4b47ae92073b7d1a658beb\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Have you heard of inflation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f8de701bbda4171afae5b1961d8aa4f\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: There is a lot of passion in this debate. So $6 a week for 2 weeks puts some perspective into how generous the Government of the day is now and how measured we are in terms of what the appropriate balance is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c52f4c9799ed417cb8a2f68f6fa4be4b\u0022\u003ETracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Go and do some research.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022129f2c74ab0e4c9c807a4cff450854e1\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Just ease up on the fixation\u2014ease up on the fixation. A very, very important point was made also by Tracey Martin, because she said that I was saying something about the Government\u2014that it does not care about the children and does not have to pay for them, or something like that. The point I was trying to make\u2014and let us just get back to some accuracy here\u2014is that there are plenty of parents who actually do not need paid parental leave, even now when it is available, notwithstanding the fact that when it was not available, people actually got by. So it is not the case that the Government should always be the default mechanism in this equation. It is certainly the case that where there are those who are at the margins, who are struggling and have a family, that extra assistance makes all the difference, but it is about getting that balance right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EI want to just reflect on some of the other things that we are doing that would reflect the context of that balance, because the member also made some pretty interesting allegations about us on this side of the Chamber not really caring about those people. Well, a $500 million package announced in the Budget is far from not caring in my view. What we are looking at are free GP visits for those up to 13 years of age. That is a good thing. That is a good thing, because there are many who will not take their children to the doctor because of that additional cost, so that is huge. We are moving in a staged, careful, and considered manner from 14 weeks to 16 weeks to 18 weeks over the next 2 years, and that is what we think is prudent and appropriate at the time. We are also increasing the parental tax credit by $70 a week to $220 a week\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022561e963bc26b4552add574204aa9a86c\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: The equivalent of the old universal family benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef9cdf8d96ba4ce4ab2918f472b69075\u0022\u003EMIKE SABIN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I say, I am not in tune with the old days, because\u2014that is right\u2014we are forward-looking. We are forward-looking and it is about now. It is about what is appropriate for the context now. To come back to the point, it is an increase of $70 a week to $220 a week in total and it is extended by 2 weeks to 10 weeks. There is $155.7 million more going into early childhood education. This Government has had an absolute commitment to getting children into early childhood education because we know the outcomes for those children are much more positive if they can get themselves into that early childhood education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EThe reason I am bringing these measures up is that our steps in terms of paid parental leave have been subject to some significant criticism and aspersions that we are playing politics with it, but it is about the balance that we have tried to achieve. So it is hard for me to discuss that balance, which has been highly criticised by the other side, without mentioning that. I am still waiting for the member in the chair, the sponsor of this bill, Sue Moroney, to stand up and tell us why she is happy to accuse us of playing politics but not happy to vote for the legislation that will help grow the economy. The economy is growing and as the economy grows, so does our support for people who are in need. It is about need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022721a14ca-e9d5-4c2e-b3ef-03d03e4fea07\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge and thank my mother, because it was not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1de08669f26430ead4089a2a6ea1086\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1de08669f26430ead4089a2a6ea1086\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022507425968d3d44bdb7eebd181121620b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote  was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; Mana 1; Independent: Horan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7098ef72d2c458da6b1a3b024f9bc27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7098ef72d2c458da6b1a3b024f9bc27\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E It is a privilege to stand and take a call in the Committee stage of the Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill. I just want to reflect on an international study that was released earlier this year and championed by Harvard University, which is called the Social Progress Index. Many New Zealanders would think that as a country we would come up near the top of that sort of survey, but were surprised when, in fact, we came out as No. 1 in the world\u2014No. 1 in terms of social progress on the entire globe. That survey canvassed some 60 to 65 measures, if I recall, and the fact of the matter was that New Zealand did not come No. 1 in each of those measures, so I am the first to admit that there are a range of things that as a nation we can do better. I think all of us would want to think that we can stay in the No. 1 position in terms of social progress as a nation internationally, because that bodes well. As my colleague said, there were 132 countries in that survey, and we came out at No. 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe point I make in regard to the fact that we were not No. 1 in each of the initiatives that were measured is that we can make more progress. To that point, I make this other point, which is that I truly believe that every member of this House comes in here with the goal of improving the lot of all New Zealanders. Tracey Martin, Jacinda Ardern, Alfred Ngaro, Mark Mitchell\u2014all of us actually come in here with that goal. That is a fact. We all want to leave this place having left New Zealand in a better place than when we came here. The point I make is that we make different choices about how we achieve that progress, and that is just politics. It is about a scarce resource, which is taxation, the revenue that comes into the Government from taxpayers, and it is about how we choose to spend those resources. The fact of the matter is we are not all going to agree on the exact composition of that expenditure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe fact of the matter is we have made choices over on this side of the Chamber to extend paid parental leave\u2014because we think that is a good thing\u2014from 14 weeks to 18 weeks. We have not agreed to extend it to 26 weeks at this point in time, but we have made other choices that my colleagues have discussed tonight. Free general practitioner visits\u2014which we announced in the Budget\u2014for children under 13 years of age, lifting that from 6 years, come at a cost. That is not free. It is one of the choices we made as a Government about improving the lot of New Zealanders. Another choice we made was to increase the parental tax credit. Jacinda Ardern said it is not that much. It is not a huge increase\u2014I accept that\u2014but it still comes at a cost, which means you have to make choices about other things that you are not going to extend in terms of a set level of taxation. We particularly made a decision to increase by $155 million the amount that is going into early childhood education. If there is one thing we can do in this country for all children, for our nation to lift their ability to climb the ladder, it is to invest and to continue to invest in education. I am talking about the ladder of opportunity. With early childhood education\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226e9a5f9d3794773bdcf8e036d194a46\u0022\u003ETracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: The one that you\u2019re pulling up behind you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f006715377347fc830919cac38ae4a6\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: We have delivered on that, Ms Martin, and it is going to actually continue to ensure that we stay up at No. 1 in that social progress indicator. In that regard we have made huge progress for Pacific Islanders, for M\u0101ori, and for all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293e842da-b06b-4f08-88ce-cb568739e1b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022870686614c7e4f7f8615ea65f603f13c\u0022\u003ELe\u2019aufa\u2019amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor\u003C/span\u003E: Here we go. Dissing M\u0101ori and Pacific. Taking them for granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fbbbc1fecff4d59ab3f5d015f1a99eb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: In fact, we are going to achieve that 98 percent target within the next few years. Ms Asenati Lole-Taylor, that is something you should be championing. For your people, the fact that we have lifted the number of young Pacific Islanders who are in early children education is an outstanding achievement and something we should all cherish. So my point is that we have choices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u0022015e18b022724fc1af0df2780021faa5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022015e18b022724fc1af0df2780021faa5\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Ahn nyung ha se yo. Sat sri akaal. It is very important that we are debating the Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill in this Committee. My colleagues have explained a lot of things. There is one point that is missing so far. No one has touched on it, because these members were not on the Government Administration Committee. The point I want to touch on is that the Opposition members have time and again said that 99 percent of the people who submitted support the bill. But 1 percent were against it. Who were they? That 1 percent were business organisations that represent hundreds of businesses in New Zealand. They represent thousands of families who are members of those business organisations. They were opposing this bill because they can see that this bill is not viable in the present conditions. The global financial crisis has affected businesses. Before we decide such a measure as is proposed in the bill by Sue Moroney, it is very important that businesses feel comfortable about paying that to their employees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EIt is not that this Government is not considerate about families. In the Budget we have many measures to help families, which have been very well discussed by members in their speeches. With these words, I conclude my contribution on clause 1, but I assure you that our Government is very focused on families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u00227a3d8199781840dbb45ef30398108616\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a3d8199781840dbb45ef30398108616\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question that clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00224382122fdeb04eb5aeb0a74a3c6201a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224382122fdeb04eb5aeb0a74a3c6201a7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Just on the issue of voting, I need clarification about United Future\u2019s vote. I have it as a No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00225bb9bc67206f4b51859e5aa1f742c94a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225bb9bc67206f4b51859e5aa1f742c94a\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E No, I cast it in favour. I cast it in favour, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002234d68290fcb241b8a16f2d698101f97d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote  was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3, Mana 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 59\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000883\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 59, Noes 60.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229c6dff49be234a9e9e29143ffb8348a5\u0022\u003EClause 2  Commencement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u0022deaf4894000b4e108a5ad34a94eda4dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022deaf4894000b4e108a5ad34a94eda4dc\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill. Comments have been coming, especially from Tracey Martin and others, who have chosen to condemn both the National Party and also its members, and they have been made in a way that really has been quite offensive to many of us because we have children, we have been raised by our own parents, and we have been in a situation where we know what it means to raise our children and to care for them. Yet that is what has been coming from the other side, especially from Mrs Tracey Martin, which I am a bit surprised about. The truth is that many of us absolutely care for children. We not only care for children; we care for parents who care for their children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EMy parents came here from the Cook Islands. They did not have much. My mother was a cleaner. My dad was a labourer. They worked hard, often working two or three jobs. They did not have much. [Interruption] That is right; they were good parents, Mrs Asenati Lole-Taylor. They were good parents like your parents, I imagine. They were parents who came here with a dream and a belief that if they worked hard enough, their children would survive. To turn round and say that we do not care what happens to our parents and what happens to parents who look after children is really offensive to us because we absolutely care in so many different ways about parents who look after children and about the children themselves. We know that that is absolutely important to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the fact that my colleague Chris Tremain talked about the Social Progress Index. This was measuring multiple dimensions of social progress. Really, at the heart of this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c0184a92da9493d9e362c16e25a3cd7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. I have to advise the honourable members that the Ayes in the last vote were 60 and the Noes were 59. So, the motion that clause 1 stand part is correct, but I just want to correct the votes\u201460 for the Ayes and 59 for the Noes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f0762bc4b7b44a69a99279079e5608b\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying, the fact is that, as my colleague Chris Tremain raised, the Social Progress Index 2014, with 132 different countries, showed that New Zealand was not only caring\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022303f0e37474a40a9a06fd9bd89d5a584\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022303f0e37474a40a9a06fd9bd89d5a584\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. The time has come for me to report progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported presently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported the Summary Offences (Possession of High-power Laser Pointers) Amendment Bill without amendment, and progress on the Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Six Months\u2019 Paid Leave) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201406255c79593aecdc499dafcf3fb932dc2939000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.58 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"